From isouweine at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 00:05:13 2009 From: isouweine at gmail.com (Isaac souweine) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:35:13 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran-discussions on the readerlist In-Reply-To: <70AD46D6-9D80-44D0-AEA4-9193906836FC@sarai.net> References: <70AD46D6-9D80-44D0-AEA4-9193906836FC@sarai.net> Message-ID: <34bf33330906301135g39efc528m21e48ab1085dbd4e@mail.gmail.com> Interesting stuff everyone. Thanks for sharing. Shuddha - Wondering what you are basing your claims on that: "To the large majority of Iranians, he [Moussavi] represents the realistic possibility of change," and also "The Ahmadinejad regime is. . . deeply unpopular amongst the working poor." I mean - I understand your qualitative arguments, but your choice of words seems to be hinting at some quantitative assessments that frankly I would find a bit surprising. Cheers, Isaac On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Junaid, > > Thank you for your well argued response to my post on Iran. > > I have no hesitation at all in saying that with respect to the regime > that rules Iran, I think my usage of the word 'hatred' is a measured > and considered. I have nothing but hatred and rage for the > Ahmedinejad-Khamenei clique, and the reason I have this is because I > have a deep and abiding engagement with Iran and its history. > > You and I may agree on many things, and we usually do, especially on > Kashmir, but I have to say that on Iran we have to be clear that we > have differences. And that does not worry me at all, nor does it > diminish my categorical support to your positions on Kashmir. > Differences are healthy and positive things. I write to you, not in > opposition, but in the spirit of critical solidarity, and I hope it > will be understood as such. > > Let me, first of all say a few things in order to clarify where I am > coming from on Iran. > > I actually despise the Hugo Chavez regime. And I say this as a person > who places himself squarely on the left. think Chavez represents the > worst form of authoritarian populism, buttressed (not unlike > Ahmadinejad) by oil wealth, and the backing of the military > establishment, and I think his brand of politics is actually harmful > for the building up of a credible global left wing alternative. I > also think Hamas are reactionary. > > But, notwithstanding my personal distaste for Chavez and what he > represents, and Hamas, I do not doubt that both Chavez and Hamas > command the support of the majority of the populations in Venezuela > and the Gaza strip (though not, for Hamas, in the West Bank in > Palestine). And so, I have no hesitation in saying that they enjoy > the electoral mandate given to them by the populations that they > represent. The intenrational observers in place during the Venezuelan > and Palestinian elections, have also not indicated that the elections > in Venezuela and Palestine/Gaza were anything but regular. > > Iran is a different matter. Elections were also regularly held in the > Soviet Union, in Poland, in Czechoslovakia (during the years of > Soviet hegemony) and they continue to be held in China. In each of > these cases, the ruling regime always maintained that it had won, and > by ludicrously handsome figures. It won due to massive manipulation > of the electoral process. Not very far from home, until recently (and > until electronic voting machines introduced a new, as yet, untried > technology of selection) the ruling Left Front government in West > Bengal had near perfected techniques of 'electoral management' that > always gave them the edge. George Bush did exactly the same with his > 'stolen election'. You yourself know very well how elections have > been and are 'managed', especially by the intelligence agencies of > the Indian state in Jammu and Kashmir. I think that the elections we > have witnessed in Iran are not very different from these instances. > Finally, let us at least concede that an electoral process in which > candidates are vetted by an unelected, unrepresentative body, like > happens in Iran, where the Guardians Council decides who is suitable > and who is not, can never be characterized as a free and fair > election. So we can never really say who, or what kind of politics > enjoys the confidence of the majority of the population of Iran. Even > if that is the case, there was a feeling > > There are numerous instances of electoral irregularities, which > include the fact that the polling percentage for Ahmadinejad > stayed constant, from the very beginning to the very end of the > counting process, leading to the reasonable suspicion that the > outcome was somehow 'fixed' in advance. The opposition has in fact > indicated more than 600 specific and concrete instances of > irregularity. Here is only one instance - that deliberate confusions > within the ballot marking system (between the number for the > candidate and a code of endorsement) such as 4 for Moussavi and 44 > for Ahmadinejad, lay them open to manipulation. Numerous instances of > voter intimidation by the Basij, especially in poorer Industrial and > rural districts. And finally, the crackdown on phones, internet and > email communication that made communication difficult for opposition > activists.I have been in touch with friends in Iran throughout this > process, and they are utterly dismayed at what happened, exactly as > people were dismayed when elections were blatantly rigged in Kashmir > in 1987. They have told me that reliable sources from within the > ministry of the interior have communicated to them that the election > was utterly, utterly rigged. And that the rigging was well planned > from before. > > I am not a champion of Moussavi. I know very well that he is a part > of the ruling establishment of the Islamic Republic, and that he was > close to the section of left-leaning intellectuals in Iran who > colluded with the Khomeini faction in the initial years after 1979, > and that they were complicit (as was for instance the well known > Iranian filmmaker, now Mousavi's representative, Mohsen Makhmalbaf, > in the brutal repression of the 'left opposition' - their own former > comrades). He is like a Khruschev after Stalin. No doubt a part of > the system, but also its own internal adversary. This does not make > him any less a luminary of the Islamic Republic, just as Khruschev > was no less a Soviet luminary. And notwithstanding my critique of the > Islamic Republic and the post 1920s Soviet Union, I can still > maintain that there is a difference between a Khruschev and a Stalin, > and that there are differences between Khomeini, Khameini, > Ahmedinejad and Moussavi. > > But I also know that, over the years, Moussavi has grown closer to > Ayatollah Montazeri, (once seen as Khomeini's successor) who made his > opposition to the excesses of the regime quite clear and open, and > who has been kept under virtual house arrest, since his removal from > all positions of influence. > > But, at the present juncture, things are way beyond the question of > what exactly Mousavi represents. To the large majority of Iranians, > he represents the realistic possibility of change. The Ahmadinejad > regime is, contrary to what you say, deeply unpopular amongst the > working poor. Inflation has skyrocketed in Iran, wages have been cut, > people have been laid off, there is deep economic discontent. He may > have once enjoyed the support of a section of the working poor, > because of his apparently 'incorruptible' image, but the growing > corruption and nepotism, especially within the industrial and > economic agencies managed by the elite of the Revolutionary Guard > have strongly alienated him. So has his brutal handling of legitimate > working class protest. Only last year, the Vahed Transport workers > strike was brutally crushed, union leaders were arrested, tortured > and one even had his tongue cut off. There has also been constant > attrition in the Khodro automobile works (the regions biggest > automobile producer) and in large sectors of industry. > > As for Ahmadinejad's anti-American and anti-Zionist posturing, I have > very little to say. I do not think that the rhetoric of 'Anti- > Imperialism' , 'Anti-Zionism' and 'Anti-US' postures alone, which > sustained tyrants ranging from Idi Amin to Indira Gandhi, necessarily > has to endear us to anyone who spouts the same rhetoric, especially > if they do so in the company of Klu Klux Klan functionaries like > David Duke (as Ahmadinejad did in one of his 'Holocaust Investigation > Conferences' in Tehran). In fact, I reiterate, Ahmadinejad is the > best bet for reactionaries within the US and Israel. They can trust > him, they know him, and they know that they can use his anti-Semitic > lunacy to paint themselves as victims or potential victims and thus > build the case for war against Iran. That is why people like Daniel > Pipes and Efraim Halevy (former Mossad director) would rather have > Ahmadinejad around. > > Finally, let me put a few other things in perspective. You invoked > Mossadeq and the CIA-MI6 engineered coup against him in 1953, which > to my mind, is the 'original sin' that began the whole process that > led up to the mess in the entire region. The coup and its details are > little known. And there is a kind of caginess surrounding it, even in > Iran. Ahmadinejad himself has spoken about it once, in his famous > 'love letter' to George Bush (where he invited George Bush, the good > Christian, to join him, the good Muslim, in ridding the world of > Evil). But even in that letter, Ahaminejad's reference to the event > is opaque. > > What is little known, is the fact that the Islamists in Iran (though > not all religious figures were Islamists) were strongly behind the > coup. They were in fact injected with serious amounts of cash by the > local CIA station then, and it is with this event that they first got > their taste of political influence. Mossadeq's one time ally, > Ayatollah Kashani (Khomeini's mentor) fell out with Mossadeq, when he > (Mossadeq) introduced legislation hinting at land reforms and rights > for women. It was at this time that bridges began being built between > the beleagured Shah, the CIA station and the Ayatollah Kashani camp. > Incidentally, one of the couriers between the Shah and the Ayatollah > Kashani (and his ally in the town of Qom, Ayatollah Uzma Broujerdi) > was the then young and rising, charismatic 'Hojatolislam' Ruhollah > Musavi Khomeini (none other than the later 'Ayatollah' Khomeini). > > "Before and after the coup he (Khomeini) opposed Dr. Mossadegh and > cooperated with the Shah. According to the Iranian historian, Nasser > Pakdaman, in January 1953, after Mossadeq's cabinet had submitted a > bill to Majles granting women the vote, Ayatollah Kashani opposed it. > Ruhollah Khomeini — who was a hojatolislam at the time -- gave a > sermon in Qom and called upon the folks in the mosque to go out and > protest against the Mossadeq government and the bill." > > (See - http://www.ghandchi.com/iranscope/Anthology/Kazemzadeh/ > 28mordad.htm) > > The Shah was grateful for the help he received, via the CIA from > Khomeini and his mentors. And it was only later, in 1961-63, that the > Islamists fell out with the Shah, and Khomeini began to take on an > active 'oppositional' role. The Iranian Islamist regime has made many > attempts to whitewash the realities of the 1953-1961 period and the > honeymoon that the Shah had with the Islamists at that time, during > and after which, he used the Islamist Fadayeen-e-Islam (with which > Kashani and Khomeini were closely associated) to eliminate many > traces of the 'left opposition'. > > This is reasonably well documented, and if you are interested, I can > point you to more sources for this. > > This is why, Khomeini never had much regard for Mossadeq, and is even > reported to have said 'Mossadeq slapped Islam, and we would have had > to slap him back'. Incidentally, in one of the numerous flip-flops > that characterized Khomeini's ascendancy the Avenue named after > Mossadeq in the initial heady days after the 1979 revolution was > renamed, and almost all traces of his memory were eliminated. It is > only recently that the legacy of Mossadeq is being put to some > (limited) use, as an attempt to build a 'nationalist' consensus by a > beleagured regime. > > If you examine the history of Iran carefully, I think one cannot but > come to the conclusion that had the CIA not meddled in 1953, had the > Shah not been restored, figures like Ayatollah Khomeini, and the > eventual rise of the Islamic Republic might not have happened. In > that case, we can only conclude that the Ayatollah Khomeini, and the > regime that he inaugurated, is a beneficiary of CIA policies. Just as > Hamas would never have had the influence it now commands if it did > not tolerate the tacit acceptance, and indeed benevolence of the > State of Israel, during the 1970s and 80s. > > Chickens do come to roost in the end. And the best laid plans go awry. > > warm regards, > > Shuddha > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From justjunaid at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 02:42:55 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:42:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran-discussions on the readerlist In-Reply-To: <70AD46D6-9D80-44D0-AEA4-9193906836FC@sarai.net> References: <70AD46D6-9D80-44D0-AEA4-9193906836FC@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, I know you have been one of the few consistent supporters of the struggles of Kashmiri people in India. And I also know that your concerns regarding Iran are not informed by right-wing Western propaganda but by a solid scholarship. I've no doubt in mind in stating that what you say here benefits all of us on the list. Amidst the croaky clamour that some of my Pandit compatriots raise on the discussion board and the garbage the keep burning, you have stood like a rock in defense of truth. Having said that I maintain that I don't agree 'completely' with you on Iran. When I read your posts about Iran, they have an uncanny resemblance to regular columns that appear in the Bismarck Tribune, a small newspaper here in the Mid-West of the US. (One of its sensational stories the other day was "Obama's Secret Meetings with Muslims Exposed--Why is he talking to the Enemy?"). Either Bismarck Tribune is doing some wonderful journalism or there is this one story we all are repeating. And I get suspicious of singular narratives. You could choose to highlight the numerous advances Iranian society has made after 1979. From the decay of the later Shah years to a feeling of progress and a possibility of achievement that pervaded Iran in the 90s and later. You could choose to say that the ratio of women to men in education and employment in Iran has been increasing faster than most developing countries. You could say that workers in Iran still make better wages than in other developing countries. Thiswebite suggests that GNP per capita in Iran is higher than many other developing countries, and it increased by around 15 percent from 2005 to 2006. GNP per capita in Iran is about four times that in India or Pakistan. Poverty and inequality (suggested by an improving GINI coefficient) has substantially improved in the post-Iran-Iraq war period. In fact, poverty in Iran today is 1/8th of what it was before the revolution. In contradiction to what most of the Western propaganda would have us believe, the economic issues (and not "democracy!") have remained the centre-piece of political debates in Iran since the revolution. Khomenie had all along repeatedly mentioned that the revolution belonged to the disinherited "Mostazafan" and the barefooted "Paberehnagan". In fact what brought Ahmedinejad to power in 2005 was the deep-seated dissatisfaction with the unkept promises of the revolution. People wanted an increased pace at which their lives could improve in Iran. Ahmedinejad to them represented a "change" from the stagnation that was beginning to sweep across Iran under the belied promises of Khatami, who invested too much time in rhetorical exchanges with his other clerics, than focus his energy on actually doing something on the ground. Under Rafsanjani and Khatami one of the most important politico-economic agenda--redistribution-- shifted to growth. Under Ahmedinejad more welfare programs were initiated than earlier. Poor had better access to electricity and clean drinking water than before. That is atleast what UN's Human Development Index suggests, which incidentally places Iran much higher than India, and India with its "roaring" growth rates etc, has made much less progress than Iran in removing poverty. (Rakesh sahab, this is where comparison sometimes helps. I compare Iran to India only to put things in perspective. Otherwise, we begin to mimic West in their polemic, without pausing once to look over our own shoulder and see what we are standing on.) Ahmedinejad has consistently argued with the clergy that minimum wages should be raised by 40 percent, but faced criticism from many of the so-called reformists and the hardliners alike. The reformist-clerical economic agenda is closer to Montek-ManMohan one, and which is why they hate Ahmedinejad who gives subsidized fuel and food to the Iran's poor. They hate him because he has consistently confronted elite economists who would prefer "trickle-down" to redistribution. For Tehran's elite where all major industries are based, the rural poor (which is most of the people) are no concern. During boom times of late 60s or the crash of late 70's and early 80s rural poor had remained insulated in their relative poverty. They began to see change only by mid-90s. And after Ahmedinejad came to power significant shifts took place which favoured rural poor over the moneyed Tehranians who did not know where to pump their money in. Yes, inflation increased, because interest rates were cut, and it was a bitter pill that government was willing to take, in the interest of the poor farmers to get cheaper loans. Liquidity was down because Tehran's rich hoarded money. Anything they could to crush Ahmedinejad. But I am not saying that Ahmedinejad was some messiah for the poor. In fact, many of his early promises were reversed. And one of the reasons for that was his too much focus on foreign policy. I am all for demilitarization of states, including disbanding of the Basij or National Gaurds and Special Forces in the US, or the Salwa Judums and Ikhwanis and SoGs or STF's and Rashtriya Rifles. All states have overt and covert forces who in the name of national territorial integrity or in defense of "our way of life" or Islam or Jewish State persecute and stifle opposition. Such system should vaporise. But I don't think Iran deserves a special treatment in this regard. Compared to the devastation visisted by US in Iraq or Afghanistan or the Indian oppression in Kashmir, the Iranian Basij look like cute innocent babies! When you speak of Khudro motor strike and its aftermath, I think of Honda motors in Haryana and the farmers in Rajasthan. I think of the Assam Rifles in Manipur. No one on this forum discussed the possibility of disbanding Haryana Police or the CRPF or the Assam Rifles! Or call them "much-hated"! What brings this hate...(a little later). On nuclear question most Iranians are happy with Ahmedinejad, as suggested by a poll done by the Mehr News Agency. He took a principled stand on the issue. Stoking anti-Iranian hatred West, with a lot of Israeli poking, raised the demon of an Iranian N-bomb. Ahmedinejad always stated that use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes was a right Iran had under international treaties, and he was right. I don't understand why the US and Israel are playing the defenders of world when they have stockpiles of weapons with which they threaten and bully the West Asia and other regions. The Iranian nuclear debate has become laughable with the comic entry of Indian "strategic analysts" who argue that Iran should be prevented from acquiring nuclear tech at any cost. If anything, it is India, Pakistan, and most importantly Israel which should be the topic of such discussions. But also US, Russia, UK, France and China. The "anti-semitism" charge that you levelled against Ahmedinejad is obnoxious. First of all let me say that "anti-semitism" in the context of Europe and US before (and to some extent immediately after the WWII) has validity. In the present day and age, especially when it comes to charges against Muslims, I find it to be a purely political-rhetorical instrument to stiffle dissent and disagreement with the Western narrative of WWII, establishment of the Israeli entity and its actions subsequently. Holocaust wasn't a Middle-Eastern experience, Nakbah is. What befell Palestinians and what continues to make them live sub-human lives is what should count. Most of the time, Ahmedinejad was mistranslated or only partially quoted. And he said Israel should be shifted to Europe. And yes, I think that is what should have happened. If Central European and Eastern European Jews were facing persecution, their Israel should have been established there, and not on an innocent people's land. I think if Ahmedinejad truly said "Israel should be wiped of the map" it is of not much consequence than Netanyahu giving a go-ahead to further constructions in Occupied Territories. It is of less consequence than a Golda Meir saying "Palestinians don't exist" or Moshe Dayan saying "Palestinians are insects". It is not of that great a significance than Madeliene Albright saying if 'Santions against Iraq costs half a million Iraqi lives, "it is worth it"'. Or a Bush saying, "War on Terror is a War without End". Or Tzipi Livni saying "We'ill teach 'em a lesson". Because their words lead to a mass slaughter by Israelis of Palestinians like in Gaza last year. Or in Sabra and Shatilla. Or Fallujah. Or Baghdad. What gets reported and said and narrated is what is given importance. Ahmedinejad has continuously said that he respects Jews, which form a significant minority in Iran. It is not Jews he has problems with, it is Israel and the idea behind it. (Interestingly, one of the allegations that royalist diasporic Iranians levelled at Ahmedinejad was that he was a Jew. Reformists too were trying to spread it. The royalists had at one time suspected Ruhollah Khomeinie as being a Jew!). Nobody on this forum speaks about Netanyahu, the hawkish Israeli PM, and his rabid denial of Palestinian statehood. I don't like him, and I know you don't either. I know you despise him and perhaps hate him too, but did you question his win in the recent election in Israel? I have my doubts too about electoral democracy, but then it is a choice between accepting people's choice or hurling out democracy itself. I know CPIM played a lot of tricks in West Bengal, but I feel they won elections too, and on their own. I guess Bengalis would have risen up in revolt much before "electronic voting machine" came to their rescue if they thought they were being cheated. I don't think Mamta was ever a better choice for Bengalis. It is easy to cheat even with Electronic Voting Machines. In Anantnag during the last election, my neighbour said her whole family had voted (7 members, including 5 kids who are all below 15). I'm not dismissing the possibility that many irregularities (600 as you say) might have happened during Iran elections. Iranian authorities from the beginning said that complaints may be lodged if there are any. Moussavi instead chose to play the populist for a change and with support from traditional clerical elite in Tehran, who despise Ahmedinejad (a poor blacksmith's son), launched a campiagn to delegitimise the elections. If he was right then he should have brought the charges to the front, and played his game on a more solid ground. While he waved "Allah O Akbar" to hundreds of young people on Tehran streets, he couldn't validate his claims. The Guardian Council, which in many ways acts like the Election Commission of India, and which had vetted both Ahmedinejad as well as Moussavi (and allowed both to participate) meanwhile said elections were fair but irregularities, if any, must be looked into. I don't agree that there has to be something like a Guardian Council, if anything its role should simply be to ensure fair and free polls. But it is not so much of a monster it is made out to be. Khatami, the more reformist than Moussavi, was vetted and allowed to contest by the same Council. He won too and ruled. Why did no one contest Ahmedinejad's first election? Ahmedinejad's popularity has remained consistent from the beginning of his first presidential bid, and not just on the counting day of this last election. He always enjoyed the support of the 2/3rd of the Iranian masses, an overwhelming majority of whom are rural and urban poor. And I believe 4 and 44 confusion can help both candidates equally. The fact that protests were concentrated to Tehran testifies that rural people were not so shocked with the results. And contrary to what you say, other Iranian cities and towns have been remarkably silent. Imperialism, and its opposition, is not a grand-narrative, it is a reality, perhaps the most felt and experienced reality in todays world. I don't believe that what is happening about Iran in the discursive sphere can be understood separately, without bringing imperialism into perspective. As you rightly pointed out US and British intervention in Iran in 1953 was the original sin. And the way Reza Shah Pehlavi was babied by the West in return of massive oil contracts was only bound to snowball into a structural change in Iran. Religion played a big role in the revolution. The idea of left-wing in Iran during 1979 needs to be revisited. Islamic revolution was religion-inspired but socialist in orientation. But religion also played a big role in the protests in Eastern Europe especially Poland in the 1980s. One revolution was welcome, and another was despised. Khomenie, who upon his arrival from exile in 1979 was received by millions of people in Tehran (yes, 2 million according to a BBC documentary I can't remember the name of but was recently broadcast), had become the rallying cry and the major organiser of the revolution. The "betrayal" of the promises that you spoke about did happen. Yes, who can deny people were not persecuted. Yes, it was not what Iranians had bargained for. But at the time the referendum was held (April 1979) there was very little of the Bisij or the Revolutionary Gaurd, so no question of coercion. And people overwhelmingly supported the establishment of the Islamic Republic. There were unfortunate incidents like hostage crisis in the American Embassy but many such incidents were precipated by the actions and interference of the US and British govts. Many persecutions that took place were also a direct result of the war that Saddam's Iraq launched on Iran, and the covert (Cheney's gas bomb) support US gave to the Iraqi leader. Left alone, Iran faced the darkest side of Western coercion. Not only was Iran and Iranians suddenly despised and hated and depicted as Evil, but they were attacked too. The shooting down of an Iranian airplane which was carrying 290 people by the US Navy was the worst one could imagine. Americans later said it was a case of mis-recognition!! This story has been already forgotten, with no one talking of reparations to Iranians who lost their lives. Since the day Ahmedinejad became President, American and Israeli war hysteria has kept Ahmedinejad's office busy in deflecting the threats.Iran is constantly under threat of being attacked by powerful foreign forces (remember Seymour Hersh's reports two years back), and when such threats are mixed with evil stereotyping (using films like 300 for eg.), and when it is openly declared by startegic experts that the war is going to be even bloodier than in Iraq, I guess the country would be greatly worried and feel comfortable with a president who can stand up to such forces, than with one who makes quirky jumps from being a painter to suddenly be a Presidential hopeful, who has nothing to show to impress, who says he is a "reformist" but never clearly defines his agenda, who eats the Western bait. That Daniel Pipes and some Moshev says Israel would actually prefer Ahmedinejad should be a reason for Iranians to prefer Moussavi is preposterous and an insult to the judgement of Iranians. I wouldn't make my judgement in reaction to what Pipes or Lewis or others of their clique say. That would be giving them too much power and influence over me. I don't trust them on Muslim-bashing, and I don't trust them on their mischievously concocted fake liking for Ahmedinejad. One thing about the role of Islamists in 1953. Across the Muslim world Islamists have persecuted and have been persecuted. There is no objective basis for us to like or dislike all of them. In Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood was ready to support former Imperialists against Nasser, but they were targetted and slaughtered in Egypt once Nasser's grip got stronger. Under the corrupt rule of Hosni Mubarak, Muslim Brotherhood remain a strong, albiet suppressed, voice for democratic reform. In Algeria too FIS was seeking democratic reforms after they won elections in early 90s but were barred by the military from taking their rightful place in the government. There is no actual proof that Israel encouraged Muslim Brotherhood. I also support the theory that Israel sat on the fence watching while Muslim Brotherhood grew. Yes, Israel could have eliminated Muslim Brotherhood or substantially destroyed it if it chose to do so. But it is a blatant lie that Israel supported or helped Hamas. Hamas was formed in the midst of the First Intifada in 1988. It was formed because a huge faction within Muslim Brotherhood felt there is no alternative to active resistance. In any case again, I wouldn't form my judgement on a logic that what Israel likes I should dislike. Because now that Israel seems comfortable with a defanged PLO, should we not like Hamas by default? I don't buy the logic. So yes there was a section of Islamists in Iran who did not like Mossadegh's more secular outlook. But it was not the case with all the Islamists. It is very unclear what role Hojatulislam Khomenie played at that time. There are many conspiracy theories, and you have also narrated one of them. But it is true that the royalists persecuted the Islamists like never before. One cannot forget that main victims of the dreaded SAVAK were mostly Islamists, but also many Communists. In fact, during the Shah years Islamists were the primary victims of the great game that Soviets and Americans played in Iran, being victimised by the proxies of both sides. So, my question is what brings about this "hate", when people speak of Iran. What causes some to hate and despise the Iranian government when most other governments around the world are not much different. Although, Kashmiris face oppression and persecution everyday at the hands of Indian troops, I don't HATE Indian government. I just want them to roll back their occupation from Kashmir. I dislike Indian government policies on Kashmir. And yet I accept Indian government's validity in India because it's got Indian people's mandate. I don't hate Manmohan or Sonia Gandhi or even any soldier in particular. What brings your hatred toward Iran? Do you hate Manmohan the same way as Ahmedinejad? And I am sure you have more actual grievances with Manmohan's policies than Ahmedinejad's, who doesn't affect you directly? Yet, still.. you have such strong feelings! Shuddha, I just feel we sometimes play into a script and we need a critical distance and an ethical objectivity to develop opinions. I know you are very busy with many other things. So if you don't find time to respond, it is ok. Always a friend, Junaid On 6/30/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > Dear Junaid, > Thank you for your well argued response to my post on Iran. > > I have no hesitation at all in saying that with respect to the regime that > rules Iran, I think my usage of the word 'hatred' is a measured and > considered. I have nothing but hatred and rage for the Ahmedinejad-Khamenei > clique, and the reason I have this is because I have a deep and abiding > engagement with Iran and its history. > > You and I may agree on many things, and we usually do, especially on > Kashmir, but I have to say that on Iran we have to be clear that we have > differences. And that does not worry me at all, nor does it diminish my > categorical support to your positions on Kashmir. Differences are healthy > and positive things. I write to you, not in opposition, but in the spirit of > critical solidarity, and I hope it will be understood as such. > > Let me, first of all say a few things in order to clarify where I am coming > from on Iran. > > I actually despise the Hugo Chavez regime. And I say this as a person who > places himself squarely on the left. think Chavez represents the worst form > of authoritarian populism, buttressed (not unlike Ahmadinejad) by oil > wealth, and the backing of the military establishment, and I think his brand > of politics is actually harmful for the building up of a credible global > left wing alternative. I also think Hamas are reactionary. > > But, notwithstanding my personal distaste for Chavez and what he > represents, and Hamas, I do not doubt that both Chavez and Hamas command the > support of the majority of the populations in Venezuela and the Gaza strip > (though not, for Hamas, in the West Bank in Palestine). And so, I have no > hesitation in saying that they enjoy the electoral mandate given to them by > the populations that they represent. The intenrational observers in place > during the Venezuelan and Palestinian elections, have also not indicated > that the elections in Venezuela and Palestine/Gaza were anything but > regular. > > Iran is a different matter. Elections were also regularly held in the > Soviet Union, in Poland, in Czechoslovakia (during the years of Soviet > hegemony) and they continue to be held in China. In each of these cases, the > ruling regime always maintained that it had won, and by ludicrously handsome > figures. It won due to massive manipulation of the electoral process. Not > very far from home, until recently (and until electronic voting machines > introduced a new, as yet, untried technology of selection) the ruling Left > Front government in West Bengal had near perfected techniques of 'electoral > management' that always gave them the edge. George Bush did exactly the same > with his 'stolen election'. You yourself know very well how elections have > been and are 'managed', especially by the intelligence agencies of the > Indian state in Jammu and Kashmir. I think that the elections we have > witnessed in Iran are not very different from these instances. Finally, let > us at least concede that an electoral process in which candidates are vetted > by an unelected, unrepresentative body, like happens in Iran, where the > Guardians Council decides who is suitable and who is not, can never be > characterized as a free and fair election. So we can never really say who, > or what kind of politics enjoys the confidence of the majority of the > population of Iran. Even if that is the case, there was a feeling > > There are numerous instances of electoral irregularities, which include the > fact that the polling percentage for Ahmadinejad > stayed constant, from the very beginning to the very end of the counting > process, leading to the reasonable suspicion that the outcome was somehow > 'fixed' in advance. The opposition has in fact indicated more than 600 > specific and concrete instances of irregularity. Here is only one instance - > that deliberate confusions within the ballot marking system (between the > number for the candidate and a code of endorsement) such as 4 for Moussavi > and 44 for Ahmadinejad, lay them open to manipulation. Numerous instances of > voter intimidation by the Basij, especially in poorer Industrial and rural > districts. And finally, the crackdown on phones, internet and email > communication that made communication difficult for opposition activists.I > have been in touch with friends in Iran throughout this process, and they > are utterly dismayed at what happened, exactly as people were dismayed when > elections were blatantly rigged in Kashmir in 1987. They have told me that > reliable sources from within the ministry of the interior have communicated > to them that the election was utterly, utterly rigged. And that the rigging > was well planned from before. > > I am not a champion of Moussavi. I know very well that he is a part of the > ruling establishment of the Islamic Republic, and that he was close to the > section of left-leaning intellectuals in Iran who colluded with the Khomeini > faction in the initial years after 1979, and that they were complicit (as > was for instance the well known Iranian filmmaker, now Mousavi's > representative, Mohsen Makhmalbaf, in the brutal repression of the 'left > opposition' - their own former comrades). He is like a Khruschev after > Stalin. No doubt a part of the system, but also its own internal adversary. > This does not make him any less a luminary of the Islamic Republic, just as > Khruschev was no less a Soviet luminary. And notwithstanding my critique of > the Islamic Republic and the post 1920s Soviet Union, I can still maintain > that there is a difference between a Khruschev and a Stalin, and that there > are differences between Khomeini, Khameini, Ahmedinejad and Moussavi. > > But I also know that, over the years, Moussavi has grown closer to > Ayatollah Montazeri, (once seen as Khomeini's successor) who made his > opposition to the excesses of the regime quite clear and open, and who has > been kept under virtual house arrest, since his removal from all positions > of influence. > > But, at the present juncture, things are way beyond the question of what > exactly Mousavi represents. To the large majority of Iranians, he represents > the realistic possibility of change. The Ahmadinejad regime is, contrary to > what you say, deeply unpopular amongst the working poor. Inflation has > skyrocketed in Iran, wages have been cut, people have been laid off, there > is deep economic discontent. He may have once enjoyed the support of a > section of the working poor, because of his apparently 'incorruptible' > image, but the growing corruption and nepotism, especially within the > industrial and economic agencies managed by the elite of the Revolutionary > Guard have strongly alienated him. So has his brutal handling of legitimate > working class protest. Only last year, the Vahed Transport workers strike > was brutally crushed, union leaders were arrested, tortured and one even had > his tongue cut off. There has also been constant attrition in the Khodro > automobile works (the regions biggest automobile producer) and in large > sectors of industry. > > As for Ahmadinejad's anti-American and anti-Zionist posturing, I have very > little to say. I do not think that the rhetoric of 'Anti-Imperialism' , > 'Anti-Zionism' and 'Anti-US' postures alone, which sustained tyrants ranging > from Idi Amin to Indira Gandhi, necessarily has to endear us to anyone who > spouts the same rhetoric, especially if they do so in the company of Klu > Klux Klan functionaries like David Duke (as Ahmadinejad did in one of his > 'Holocaust Investigation Conferences' in Tehran). In fact, I reiterate, > Ahmadinejad is the best bet for reactionaries within the US and Israel. They > can trust him, they know him, and they know that they can use his > anti-Semitic lunacy to paint themselves as victims or potential victims and > thus build the case for war against Iran. That is why people like Daniel > Pipes and Efraim Halevy (former Mossad director) would rather have > Ahmadinejad around. > > Finally, let me put a few other things in perspective. You invoked Mossadeq > and the CIA-MI6 engineered coup against him in 1953, which to my mind, is > the 'original sin' that began the whole process that led up to the mess in > the entire region. The coup and its details are little known. And there is a > kind of caginess surrounding it, even in Iran. Ahmadinejad himself has > spoken about it once, in his famous 'love letter' to George Bush (where he > invited George Bush, the good Christian, to join him, the good Muslim, in > ridding the world of Evil). But even in that letter, Ahaminejad's reference > to the event is opaque. > > What is little known, is the fact that the Islamists in Iran (though not > all religious figures were Islamists) were strongly behind the coup. They > were in fact injected with serious amounts of cash by the local CIA station > then, and it is with this event that they first got their taste of political > influence. Mossadeq's one time ally, Ayatollah Kashani (Khomeini's mentor) > fell out with Mossadeq, when he (Mossadeq) introduced legislation hinting at > land reforms and rights for women. It was at this time that bridges began > being built between the beleagured Shah, the CIA station and the Ayatollah > Kashani camp. Incidentally, one of the couriers between the Shah and the > Ayatollah Kashani (and his ally in the town of Qom, Ayatollah Uzma > Broujerdi) was the then young and rising, charismatic 'Hojatolislam' > Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini (none other than the later 'Ayatollah' Khomeini). > > "Before and after the coup he (Khomeini) opposed Dr. Mossadegh and > cooperated with the Shah. According to the Iranian historian, Nasser > Pakdaman, in January 1953, after Mossadeq's cabinet had submitted a bill to > Majles granting women the vote, Ayatollah Kashani opposed it. Ruhollah > Khomeini — who was a hojatolislam at the time -- gave a sermon in Qom and > called upon the folks in the mosque to go out and protest against the > Mossadeq government and the bill." > > (See - http://www.ghandchi.com/iranscope/Anthology/Kazemzadeh/28mordad.htm > ) > > The Shah was grateful for the help he received, via the CIA from Khomeini > and his mentors. And it was only later, in 1961-63, that the Islamists fell > out with the Shah, and Khomeini began to take on an active 'oppositional' > role. The Iranian Islamist regime has made many attempts to whitewash the > realities of the 1953-1961 period and the honeymoon that the Shah had with > the Islamists at that time, during and after which, he used the Islamist > Fadayeen-e-Islam (with which Kashani and Khomeini were closely associated) > to eliminate many traces of the 'left opposition'. > > This is reasonably well documented, and if you are interested, I can point > you to more sources for this. > > This is why, Khomeini never had much regard for Mossadeq, and is even > reported to have said 'Mossadeq slapped Islam, and we would have had to slap > him back'. Incidentally, in one of the numerous flip-flops that > characterized Khomeini's ascendancy the Avenue named after Mossadeq in the > initial heady days after the 1979 revolution was renamed, and almost all > traces of his memory were eliminated. It is only recently that the legacy of > Mossadeq is being put to some (limited) use, as an attempt to build a > 'nationalist' consensus by a beleagured regime. > > If you examine the history of Iran carefully, I think one cannot but come > to the conclusion that had the CIA not meddled in 1953, had the Shah not > been restored, figures like Ayatollah Khomeini, and the eventual rise of the > Islamic Republic might not have happened. In that case, we can only conclude > that the Ayatollah Khomeini, and the regime that he inaugurated, is a > beneficiary of CIA policies. Just as Hamas would never have had the > influence it now commands if it did not tolerate the tacit acceptance, and > indeed benevolence of the State of Israel, during the 1970s and 80s. > > Chickens do come to roost in the end. And the best laid plans go awry. > > warm regards, > > Shuddha > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > From justjunaid at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 03:44:57 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 03:44:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir Message-ID: Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in Kashmir. Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT Varmul On Boil Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to quell protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the Hurriyat Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on Monday. Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We called the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his injuries,” they added. After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters said. They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth were killed. “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal Bashir, 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending upon Bilal termed his condition to be critical. According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army vehicle. “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and beat us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the streets. They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened fire on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth retaliated with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the evening. The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police and protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were injured in the clashes. At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later dispersed off peacefully. In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. SRINAGAR Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the Hurriyat’s call even as protests were held at a few places. At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas shelling in which two women were injured. Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while another was run over near Gaw Kadal. All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government offices remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying intermittently. SOUTH KASHMIR In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The Police and CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and police personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF bunker with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests continued till late evening. A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, business and offices remained closed. Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were also received from Pulwama district. ********************************************************************************************* Custodial Disappearance KHALID GUL Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru demonstrated for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the government fails to find the boy in two days. Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at around 1:00 PM,” he said. Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers on Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme steps.” “The government has passed instructions that army should inform local police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said a top police official. Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying to convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages demonstrated against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades and burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Jul 1 04:08:47 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 04:08:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Junaid, Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read it, and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer to home, both for you and for me. Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end Shuddha On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in > Kashmir. > > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings > > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > > Varmul On Boil > > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained > critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to quell > protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the Hurriyat > Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on > Monday. > Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the > peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We called > the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his > injuries,” they added. > > After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and > children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the > streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them > critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters > said. > They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. > Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers > who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth > were killed. > > “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the > protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal Bashir, > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending upon > Bilal termed his condition to be critical. > > According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF > troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army vehicle. > “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and beat > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. > > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > > Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the streets. > They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened fire > on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were > deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and > fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth retaliated > with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the > evening. > > The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons > including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police and > protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were > dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by > hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were > injured in the clashes. > > At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later > dispersed off peacefully. > In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as > police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. > > SRINAGAR > Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the Hurriyat’s > call even as protests were held at a few places. > > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest > demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF > troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas > shelling in which two women were injured. > > Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while another > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > > All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government offices > remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the > government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. > However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying > intermittently. > > SOUTH KASHMIR > > In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and > protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads > and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The Police and > CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and police > personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for > holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF bunker > with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests > continued till late evening. > > A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, > business and offices remained closed. > > Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were also > received from Pulwama district. > ********************************************************************** > *********************** > > Custodial Disappearance > > KHALID GUL > > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru demonstrated > for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced > custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the > government fails to find the boy in two days. > > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a > routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers on > Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of > Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme > steps.” > “The government has passed instructions that army should inform local > police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy > was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said a > top police official. > > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying to > convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are > concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” > > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages demonstrated > against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and > anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades and > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 05:42:00 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 06:12:00 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran, "as you say" Message-ID: > Junaid wrote: > I'm not dismissing the possibility that many irregularities (600 as you say) "as you say" is a sly dig. The 600 number doesn't come from Shuddha, but from the opposition candidates. See here: http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/06/24/iran-faq/ From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 09:39:32 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Jihadis abduct, rape young girls in Jammu - Message-ID: <804763.25750.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh, Thanks for broadbasing my views on the issues. I appreciate & respect your views, we can live with different perceptions to solutions while agreeing in principle. Thanks & Regards (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jihadis abduct, rape young girls in Jammu - > To: "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:16 PM > Dear Malik jee > > I am pleased to get this reply, and here is my response to > the points you highlighted: > > 1) First Sir, I think we need to be clear on the question > of appeasement. According to me, in any case of appeasement, > there are three kinds of people or groups. One is the group > which is being appeased. The other is the group which is the > authority and has the right to appease. And the third is the > one who watches from the side and decides upon the impacts > of such appeasement. And all three suffer (in positive or > negative sense depends upon case to case) in an act of > appeasement. > > > Now, in the case of this Muslim appeasement, there are > things which have happened. I am happy you gladly pointed > out that Muslims have not received the benefits of education > and employment, even though the Congress which advocates > itself to be the champion of the Muslims, has been ruling > for 50 of the past 62 years of independence. The Congress is > a huge sham and very different even from the days of Gandhi, > so the less said about them the better. Earlier it was about > democracy, getting one's voice heard and fighting for > the right causes, today it's about worshipping the > Gandhi-Nehru dynasty. > > > However, in this case too, all the three suffer. The > Muslims suffer ignimony at the fact that they are accused of > conducting the blasts and being terrorists, and being the > ones who are out to divide the nation. There are still > people in this country who believe that majority of the > Muslims like to celebrate when Pakistan wins a cricket match > over India. There are people who believe that Babri Masjid > demolition was right and Muslims should either hand over the > land at Ayodhya or go to Pakistan. > > > The other communities suffer. The Hindus suffer because > they are made a fool of in the prospect of uniting against > Muslims and Muslim appeasement, and the end result is > animosity between people of different religions. > > > The Indian state and the people suffer at large because > resources are used up in containing violence and managing > peace rather than thinking about schemes and missions which > can help in improving the life conditions of the people, > like the Right to Food Act, the NREGA, the National Rural > Health Mission and so on. And then we also have to deal > sometimes with cases where the military forces overrule > themselves by indulging in acts which seek to probably > remind about the truth of the armies in the world history: > wherever armies have invaded or gone, they have ensured that > a woman's dignity has been torn to shreds. We already > know how the concept of purdah came into India. > > > Therefore, I am against appeasement because Muslim > appeasement actually doesn't help the Muslims. It's > only a practice which is to ensure that Muslims are being > made happy for the sake of making them happy, without doing > anything good for them. I am happy you have taken it up that > way. > > > 2) I agree with you when you state that Bangladesh is in a > way created due to India. After all, the might of the state > can't be fought with on the basis of people's power > alone. After all, it required the Second World War to weaken > the powers of the Britain and give India its independence, > howsoever much we may credit Gandhi's methods of > non-violence. However, the fact is that the entire imbriglio > started because Pakistan was not ready to accept Bengali as > a national language. > > > We were able to place ourselves in the dispute simply > because Pakistan was refusing to budge from its declared > stand. Moreover, when Mujibur Rehman's party had won a > majority, in an election held by free and fair means, then > he should have been allowed to form a govt. which was not > allowed. This only further deepened the mistrust among the > East Pakistanis of their Western counterparts. This is what > allowed us to enter the fray as people from there started > migrating towards the border with India. > > > So the problem first started there, and of course, we > started the war for our own motives. > > 3) You are absolutely correct that govts. don't listen > to the people unless the people turn violent. This has been > found in numerous cases.  But my contention goes that even > in such cases, govts. listen to you only if you are in a > position to inflict democratic defeats during elections. > This is why on one hand, Gurjars and Jats are listened to, > but not Maoists, simply because Maoists don't > participate in elections, nor allow others to do so. If > tomorrow, Maoists were to declare their intention to enter > democracy and fight in elections, the parties would be sunk > and would be jostling for space to appease Maoists and being > with them. > > > This is because our politics has not been democratic, but > it's a combination of feudalism and mobocracy. And our > own people are responsible for this. It's wrong to say > that politicians divide us. Anybody can divide us only if we > are ready to be divided. And we are already divided. There > are gundas among our own society whom we are afraid of, and > yet they divide us and make us fight against each other, and > we are happy to do so for them, just to earn some money or > get a chance to have (forcible) sex with a girl. > > > And the end result is that law and order is implemented > selectively in India. > > 4) If Muslims are not entering IIT, I think we have to ask > the question as to why they are not able to enter IIT. If > the reason is that Muslims are not able even to get to the > stage of secondary education, then obviously the problem > must be solved there, for reservation can only help the > affluent to come up. However, if the problem is that Muslims > are being discriminated against in some way or the other, > then may be reservation can be considered. > > > So I am not saying that reservations must be given in Army > for the Muslims, but certainly if Army has a bias against > Muslims, it needs to be seriously corrected. Of course, if > we can have a competitive exam there for that, what harm? > > > I think the issue of reservation is something we have to > deal with very sensitively. First of all, we must find out > whether reservations have helped improve the position of > that community in political, social and economic terms or > not. And if not, then we have to find out whether the idea > of reservation itself is flawed, or the problem lies in the > way it is implemented. I think those are the issues one has > to look at before deciding on such problems. > > > On the particular issue of reservation among all > communities, not only among Muslims, I feel the current > method of implementation only seeks to help the affluent > among the communities. On the other hand, the school system > is such that the economically backward people are never > going to come up under such schemes necessarily, at least > those whom you raised questions for in your mail. Therefore, > it's time we seek to change by giving another solution, > which is to make education for all children compulsory and a > right to demand. > > > After all, if we can fight for Right to Food and Right to > Employment, why not Right to Education till 10th standard > for all at least? And once this starts, automatically > reservations can be scrapped. > > And I think it's time we think of a common one > board/entrance exam for all colleges, across India. Leaving > aside the IIT, let the AIEEE be the exam to allow all > students to get entry in all colleges, and scrap the > state-engineering exams, so that each student can get entry > in the college he/she desires. A national ranking of all > colleges should be instituted, and reservations can be given > but state-based should not be given. > > > We do need education reforms to seriously look at this > issue, because the only objective reservations are serving > is to increase national unity, not the cause of the > community at large. Moreover, they are being sought to be > looked at as a long term solution, rather than a short term > solution. > > > 5) The final point is with respect to the Sachar Committee > point you raised. I think the issue of corruption is a > larger one and is there in all offices, so just pointing out > few instances of that would be wrong. It's there in each > and every scheme across India, and not me but the CAG > reports are there to show that. At the same time, I feel on > a personal note that equality doesn't mean that we > don't try to introduce affirmative actions for those who > have not come up to the level they should have. > > > Whether that means reservations in institutions of > education or employment, or reservations in coaching > classes, or some other move is something which needs to be > discussed or debated. I am surprised that the Moily > committee asked for reservation for OBC's without having > even thought about as to how it arrived at a figure of 27% > based on the Mandal committee report, which itself was based > on a census taken before independence. > > > And I feel reservations should be granted if they help the > community, not if as the SC itself said, everybody wants to > be a backward. > > Most of our views are in agreement, but some would > obviously differ. And where do differences not exist? > > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 10:26:06 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:26:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? In-Reply-To: <794394.39920.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <794394.39920.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rahul, which shariat are you referring to when you ask my opinion. What is the definition of shariat which I want to be governed with? I have my own definition of shariat, and I would be very happy to be governed under that. My shariat is very much from Islam, but it gives queers the right to live happily. Hope that answers your query. Javed On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Dear Javed, > I don't think you have thought this through,which is why you are unable to make the distinction between "adopt something from the shariat" and "being governed by shariat".I just wanted to know whether you are in favor of making "Shariat a basis for governance" or not.This is the key .Everything else is just gravy. > Thanks > Rahul > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed wrote: > >> From: M Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:40 PM >> Dear Rahul >> Here is my clearer position: I have been brought up in an >> orthodox >> Muslim family where shariat was/is considered the ultimate >> law/norm to >> follow for a Muslim. But in my childhood days it wasn't >> considered >> such an evil thing (as Taliban has made it to be). Let me >> tell you, >> following shariat in our daily lives is very different from >> making it >> as a basis for governance. Shariat as a basis of governance >> is not >> something fixed any way - it has been interpreted >> differently in >> different Islamic countries. Indonesia, Malaysia or Turkey >> also follow >> shariat but their systems are much more liberal. That is >> why I insist: >> please don't see shariat only through the eyes of the >> Taliban/Afghanistan. >> >> Whatever name you give it, the point is, is your system of >> governance >> favourable for you. At the moment I am governed by >> democracy, whether >> I like it or not. There are many things I hate in >> democracy, and would >> love to change them one day (if I could), even adopt >> something from >> the shariat. Is there something wrong with that? >> >> Javed >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Rahul Asthana >> wrote: >> > >> > Dear Javed, >> > Could you make your position clearer on this issue? >> You say- >> > "My second minor difference is: when you say "We are >> not governed by >> > the Shariat, and I hope we never will be". I am not >> sure if Shariat is >> > all evil." >> > So, do you wish or do you not, to be governed by >> Shariat? >> > >> > (Not wishing to be governed by Shariat does not mean >> that it is evil.It also does not mean that we can't adopt >> good things from it.) >> > >> > Thanks >> > Rahul >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: M Javed >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the >> right to give fatwas? >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> "sarai list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:46 PM >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata >> >> Actually I have a slight digression from your >> answer. I >> >> don't care >> >> what fatwas the muftis give within their own >> coterie (I'm >> >> sure >> >> homosexual behaviour exists in the Deoband madrasa >> too), >> >> but the >> >> problem comes when this news is flashed on the >> front-page: >> >> it >> >> basically sends a clear signal that "Muslims" in >> general >> >> are against >> >> homo-sexuality and this is yet another example of >> how >> >> bigoted the >> >> entire community is, and there are absolutely no >> liberals >> >> (or >> >> queer-friendly) people among the Muslims and so >> on, which >> >> is not the >> >> case. In a way, any controversial fatwa from the >> Deoband >> >> (whichever >> >> damn topic) is taken by the media as a hot saucy >> news to be >> >> flashed to >> >> show the backwardness of Muslims. But my question >> is >> >> (especially to >> >> the mainstream media), do these damn fatwas >> really >> >> represent the >> >> entire Muslim community? Are they so important >> that you >> >> have to flash >> >> them as headlines. >> >> >> >> My second minor difference is: when you say "We >> are not >> >> governed by >> >> the Shariat, and I hope we never will be". I am >> not sure if >> >> Shariat is >> >> all evil. Although I don't practice it strictly, >> but I know >> >> it has >> >> many good things in it which make at least the >> good part of >> >> Islam >> >> alive. Don't see it only through the eyes of the >> Taliban. >> >> Whether we >> >> get governed by the shariat or not, I hope we >> could at >> >> least adopt the >> >> good things about it. And Shariat is not a fixed >> set of >> >> rules; it can >> >> be and should be open for interpretation, which >> these >> >> muftis have >> >> stopped doing. >> >> >> >> Thanks any way. >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Shuddhabrata >> >> Sengupta >> >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> > Thank you for forwarding this. I don't know >> who gives >> >> these muftis and >> >> > tuftis the right to give fatwas, I think they >> give it >> >> to themselves. And >> >> > since they routinely issue fatwas on all >> manner of >> >> ridiculous matters, we >> >> > might as well treat this one too with the >> lack of >> >> seriousness that it >> >> > deserves. >> >> > We are not governed by the Shariat, and I >> hope we >> >> never will be. Since we >> >> > are not governed by the Shariat, it hardly >> matters >> >> whether or not Maulana >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi thinks homosexuality is >> an >> >> offence under Shariat Law. >> >> > Not even the relevant (and anachronistic, >> misogynist >> >> and patrarchal) >> >> > sections of Personal Law in matters of >> marriage and >> >> inheritance that govern >> >> > the lives of Indian Muslims have anything to >> say about >> >> sexual relations in >> >> > private between consenting adults. So, not >> even from >> >> the completely >> >> > unacceptabe (to me) standpoint of defending a >> separate >> >> civil code for >> >> > Muslims is it relevant to discuss the fate of >> Section >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi >> >> > is barking up the wrong legal tree. >> >> > Finally, a small historical digression. >> Section 377 >> >> was introduced by the >> >> > British Colonial Administration in India. >> Which, as >> >> far as i recall, was not >> >> > exactly a model Islamic state. In fact, the >> British >> >> Colonial authorities >> >> > presided over the decline and destruction of >> >> 'nominally' Muslim political >> >> > power in India. if, for the roughly seven >> hundred >> >> years preceding the advent >> >> > of British rule in India, when the territory >> happened >> >> to be ruled largely by >> >> > Muslim rulers, (some of whom claimed to be >> guided by >> >> the Shariat) it was not >> >> > found necessary to invoke a draconian law >> like section >> >> 377, are we to then >> >> > understand that the British Colonial >> authority was >> >> more 'Islamic' than the >> >> > Mughal rulers, than the rulers of the Delhi >> sultanate, >> >> and many other kings >> >> > and princes of a Muslim persuasion. >> >> > And finally, how exactly would we remember a >> figure >> >> like the great Ghazi of >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of Ghazna and his love for >> Ayaz, or >> >> Razia Sultana and her >> >> > love for women, or the distinctly queer >> ecstasies of >> >> Amir Khusrau and >> >> > Sarmad. Each one of these people saw >> themselves as >> >> devout Muslim. And there >> >> > was nothing unusual in their being queer >> Muslims. >> >> Islamicate societies all >> >> > over the world have been historically far >> more >> >> tolerant of various different >> >> > kinds of same-sex relationships both male and >> female, >> >> and transgender >> >> > identities, than societies largely anchored >> in >> >> Christian values have been. >> >> > Islam is a sex positive religion. It >> celebrates the >> >> dignity, beauty and >> >> > diversity of the human body and all its >> desires. There >> >> is (and always has >> >> > been) a strong case for a queer theology of >> liberation >> >> that is rooted within >> >> > the Islamicate cultural universe, and it has >> had a >> >> long history, and it will >> >> > have a long future. >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is probably just as ignorant >> of the >> >> traditions he claims are >> >> > his own as Praveen Togadia, the firebrand >> leader of >> >> the Vishwa Hindu >> >> > Parishad, is. They would probably make an >> excellent >> >> couple, locked happily >> >> > together within their private closet of >> paranoia. >> >> > Meanwhile, let us hope that Veerappa Moily's >> supposed >> >> u-turn is only a >> >> > digression, and that the provisions in >> Section 377 >> >> that criminalize the >> >> > behaviour of consenting adults in private >> (which >> >> should not be the business >> >> > of the state)  are consigned finally to >> where they >> >> belong - the dustbin of >> >> > history. >> >> > And congratulations to all those who paraded >> on the >> >> streets of Delhi, >> >> > Bangalore, Madras and Calcutta. The future >> belongs to >> >> you (and us all) not >> >> > to the likes of Maulana Madrasi. >> >> > regards >> >> > Shuddha >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at 3:54 PM, M Javed wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Gay sex against tenets of Islam: Deoband >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 hrs IST, PTI >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: A leading Islamic seminary >> on >> >> Monday opposed >> >> > Centre's move to repeal a controversial >> section of the >> >> penal law which >> >> > criminalises homosexuality saying unnatural >> sex is >> >> against the tenets of >> >> > Islam. >> >> > "Homosexuality is an offence under Shariat >> Law and >> >> haram (prohibited) >> >> > in Islam," deputy vice chancellor of the >> Darul Uloom >> >> Deoband Maulana >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi said. >> >> > Madrasi also asked the government not to >> repeal >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> > which criminalises homosexuality. >> >> > His objection came a day after law minister >> Veerappa >> >> Moily said a >> >> > decision on repealing the section would be >> taken only >> >> after >> >> > considering concerns of all sections of the >> society, >> >> including >> >> > religious groups like the church. >> >> > Terming gay activities as crime, Maulana >> Salim Kasmi, >> >> vice-president >> >> > of the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board >> (AIMPLB), >> >> said >> >> > homosexuality is punishable under Islamic law >> and >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> > should not be tampered. >> >> > Maulana Mohd Sufiyan Kasmi, an AIMPLB member, >> and >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, >> >> > president of Uttar Pradesh Imam Organisation >> have also >> >> expressed >> >> > similar views on the issue. >> >> > Kasmi said it would be harmful for the >> society to >> >> legalise gay sex. >> >> > Buoyed by the news that the Centre is >> considering >> >> repealing the >> >> > controversial section of the IPC, members of >> the gay >> >> community on >> >> > Sunday held parades in several cities. >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media >> and the >> >> city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> with subscribe >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: >> >> > >> >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> > The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> > Raqs Media Collective >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net >> >> > www.sarai.net >> >> > www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the >> >> city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Jul 1 10:27:22 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:27:22 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Hymen which Exists Message-ID: <390990.57804.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Shiney Ahuja got entangled in a Rape Case. How can he rape yaar? He is a star, she was a maid, surely was in the heat of the  moment. Aab toh uski biwi Male Naukar Rakhta Hoga. Bravo, what a series of comments. A star in the sky becomes an object of minute introspection. Some say it is voyuerism, t9hank god now everybody who wants to can know who was this hot Bitch, to speak a bit more clearly, Indians usually use jhootan equivalent with vegetables! What about Lawyers, bhai yeh to unka dhanda hain and so when Vinita Dawra Nangia of Times Life intervied some Delhi lawyers, they too were too excited to miss the limelight. Afterall, the whole principle subtly shows one thing, when calling such things a moment of anti-social behaviour caused by hormones.............. One Shiny Ahuja is more important to the society than a thousand such maids! People are cautious while speaking against him. Jobless, passionless and Fearless I do not(lol). A Judge of a Briton Rape case justified thus, The Rapist says I found the gal 'too hot raoming in a bikkini' asks the victim to appear in the court in the same, put himself in the man's case and gave much lineancy in punishment. I wonder the privacy of women officials and assosciates of this oppurtunist bastard! Off course to prevent a crime, we need to know what chemical wiring goes on in the brain before it is committed, what makes the line, if one asks me, the value judgement thing is not merely a line, a whole value judgement thing. Such chemical reactions, I guess holds for every kind of emotion, not to be confused with diseases, whether society ignored such trends from birth on is another question. . . . . Mixing up and confusing with inversion diseases, and worse trying to underestimate it's degree of importance, whether such a person should be alowed to scot free, is also a question. Yes the question whoch is perturbing is broader, how protectors become predators, etc. and is definitely a measure of concern. On a neutral stance, victim and predator must be given a patient ear, but this kind of hearing actually empathises with the disease than predator. Other rumors continue, why do men of a stature like women of subdued stature, whats so sexy about maids, the husband-wife-maid traid, and other talks that I find essentially voyeurist. The Times life seems to be excited about the Housemaid-master-wife trio, reporting sentiliating essays, everyday which would sell. The whole world is out with lanterns, as if something quite interesting or at least unique or rare happen(Thank god, most maids can not read, else household problems would increase, or have some of us attained such im[ortance that we could be disgusted everyday, cursing the very spirit to go through these pages(poor Governor's GF). To these people I guess Hymen does not exist, if true at carnal roots, makes me happy.. I wonder what would have had happened if some one else raped some one else, why do we get so obssessed with stars, prophets, Babas and so on. Like the supernatural, people can not be public figures, I wonder the maid's ordeal, if it had not been raped by Shiney but some baba or less famous but more influential person. Why do we need to emulate public figures. And by the the hymen, it exists not in dress nor is a physical entity. The poor whore needed to get a dna test done. The hymen exists in the nature which made it, which gave us the ability to rejoice in Sex, the hormones etc, so how can a temporal moment do it all wrong? Nay, it surely was a prolonged decay, not a momentary reversal. Psychological records are for no other reason protected for 20 years. THis hymen, is not abstinance, this need not signify virginity A lesson society needs to learn b4 laughing at rape victims, this is a hymen of joya hymen of haya, a hymen of freedom and seperating sex from exploitation, human from baser animals, a hymen of dignity, a hymen of society, if only these so called sevaks and others could understand of it's usefulness. And it bleeds everytime, we provide such callousness and force our better halves in to layers of purdah. For that purpose even steel walls wont do, but what about more sensitivity by all sections including media? I guess all the bleeding factions including his family, the victim, fans etc , and society in general would find more solace. Sometimes we do not get too carnal, we pressurize it so much that we get Mainiac, and bleed it.am naam ki koi cheez kaise rahega is commodity fethism ke jagat mein, news is not affairs of 2 people or for society, it should sell, even if perversion, means showing a lady bathing, and giving whereabouts of clips! This git lost her hymen during heavy excercise she went to a doc to fix it, and in such a process, forced appeasement, of many more possible raptures, she Exposed her hymen, not before her husband, but this Carnalistic society!             Comments welcome, Where else does one find a hymen, a Vaginal Membrane? See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From ravig64 at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 10:43:11 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:43:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "shahidulnews" Message-ID: for those who had expressed an interest in Shaidul Alam http://www.shahidulnews.com/2009/05/23/dreaming-of-tamil-eelam/ best ravi agarwal From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Jul 1 11:00:30 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:00:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: The Hymen which Exists Message-ID: <348359.4264.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 10:27:22 AM Subject: The Hymen which Exists Shiney Ahuja got entangled in a Rape Case. How can he rape yaar? He is a star, she was a maid, surely was in the heat of the  moment. Aab toh uski biwi Male Naukar Rakhta Hoga. Bravo, what a series of comments. A star in the sky becomes an object of minute introspection. Some say it is voyuerism, t9hank god now everybody who wants to can know who was this hot Bitch, to speak a bit more clearly, Indians usually use jhootan equivalent with vegetables! What about Lawyers, bhai yeh to unka dhanda hain and so when Vinita Dawra Nangia of Times Life intervied some Delhi lawyers, they too were too excited to miss the limelight. Afterall, the whole principle subtly shows one thing, when calling such things a moment of anti-social behaviour caused by hormones.............. One Shiny Ahuja is more important to the society than a thousand such maids! People are cautious while speaking against him. Jobless, passionless and Fearless I do not(lol). A Judge of a Briton Rape case justified thus, The Rapist says I found the gal 'too hot raoming in a bikkini' asks the victim to appear in the court in the same, put himself in the man's case and gave much lineancy in punishment. I wonder the privacy of women officials and assosciates of this oppurtunist bastard! Off course to prevent a crime, we need to know what chemical wiring goes on in the brain before it is committed, what makes the line, if one asks me, the value judgement thing is not merely a line, a whole value judgement thing. Such chemical reactions, I guess holds for every kind of emotion, not to be confused with diseases, whether society ignored such trends from birth on is another question. . . . . Mixing up and confusing with inversion diseases, and worse trying to underestimate it's degree of importance, whether such a person should be alowed to scot free, is also a question. Yes the question whoch is perturbing is broader, how protectors become predators, etc. and is definitely a measure of concern. On a neutral stance, victim and predator must be given a patient ear, but this kind of hearing actually empathises with the disease than predator. Other rumors continue, why do men of a stature like women of subdued stature, whats so sexy about maids, the husband-wife-maid traid, and other talks that I find essentially voyeurist. The Times life seems to be excited about the Housemaid-master-wife trio, reporting sentiliating essays, everyday which would sell. The whole world is out with lanterns, as if something quite interesting or at least unique or rare happen(Thank god, most maids can not read, else household problems would increase, or have some of us attained such im[ortance that we could be disgusted everyday, cursing the very spirit to go through these pages(poor Governor's GF). To these people I guess Hymen does not exist, if true at carnal roots, makes me happy.. I wonder what would have had happened if some one else raped some one else, why do we get so obssessed with stars, prophets, Babas and so on. Like the supernatural, people can not be public figures, I wonder the maid's ordeal, if it had not been raped by Shiney but some baba or less famous but more influential person. Why do we need to emulate public figures. And by the the hymen, it exists not in dress nor is a physical entity. The poor whore needed to get a dna test done. The hymen exists in the nature which made it, which gave us the ability to rejoice in Sex, the hormones etc, so how can a temporal moment do it all wrong? Nay, it surely was a prolonged decay, not a momentary reversal. Psychological records are for no other reason protected for 20 years. THis hymen, is not abstinance, this need not signify virginity A lesson society needs to learn b4 laughing at rape victims, this is a hymen of joya hymen of haya, a hymen of freedom and seperating sex from exploitation, human from baser animals, a hymen of dignity, a hymen of society, if only these so called sevaks and others could understand of it's usefulness. And it bleeds everytime, we provide such callousness and force our better halves in to layers of purdah. For that purpose even steel walls wont do, but what about more sensitivity by all sections including media? I guess all the bleeding factions including his family, the victim, fans etc , and society in general would find more solace. Sometimes we do not get too carnal, we pressurize it so much that we get Mainiac, and bleed it.am naam ki koi cheez kaise rahega is commodity fethism ke jagat mein, news is not affairs of 2 people or for society, it should sell, even if perversion, means showing a lady bathing, and giving whereabouts of clips! This git lost her hymen during heavy excercise she went to a doc to fix it, and in such a process, forced appeasement, of many more possible raptures, she Exposed her hymen, not before her husband, but this Carnalistic society!             Comments welcome, Where else does one find a hymen, a Vaginal Membrane? ________________________________ Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here. Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Jul 1 11:15:54 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:15:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Perturbinut g MMS Message-ID: <42314.12849.qm@web94710.mail.in2.yahoo.com> I know many of our members would enjoy this, but I hope they have read my hymen I do not know he's a pornstar. He had some syringe inserted, had identifyable looks, the needle may be a diversion I traced out the full face of a bastard. At any case he gets involved in a kind of pornography which reduces dignoty and safety in streets and gets engaged in abetting rapes. This bastard needs to be traced and all those who can get us the men behind all this and the girl such posts need not be encouraged. Please help me find him...... Only for people who have self respect and that for others, with not too sensitive minds: http://www.dadesiforum.com/redirect.php?url=http://www.filefactory.com/file/600d8d/ Countless memory cards in circulation police wont do much, I guess, khud 'maaza lenge', so we need to get these guys too, but later. Identity does not matter that much, nor uniform nor designatories who weren't there. I haven't met Dr. Hooda, so no comments on that. Google told me first real rape on net. Feels great, only if I could meet him,. . .. . .  . .  . . . .. . .  . . . Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 12:44:33 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:44:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GOI Inviting Comments on Forming Teen Clubs to Empower Adolescents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/goi-inviting-comments-on-forming-teen-clubs-t Excerpts from the mail: The Nehru Yuva Kendra Sangathan (NYKS) http://www.nyks.org/ an autonomous body of the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports, Government of India was set up in 1972 under the erstwhile Ministry of Education. I am presently working as a Zonal Adolescent Resource Team Member with NYKS and also as Chief Consultant for Adolescent Counselling at the National Youth Festivals. In our continuous efforts for the holistic development of Generation-Next and with our experiences, NYKS developed a draft Guidelines for development and empowerment of adolescents through Teen Clubs. Specifically, we would like to know: a.. What must be added to the guidelines, based on your past experience of facilitating Teen and Youth Clubs? b.. What must the parents, relatives, youth, teachers, teens, and others follow before, during, and after formation of Teen Clubs? c.. How do you think the recommended changes will benefit the Adolescent groups and help them learn and internalise life skills? From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 13:29:31 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:29:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Priyadarshini's father demands justice for Shopian victims Message-ID: <6353c690907010059h22aeafedgb4cd6d0c5e9c504d@mail.gmail.com> *Priyadarshini's father demands justice for Shopian victims* Excelsior Correspondent Link - http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/09july01/state.htm#14 *SRINAGAR, June 30: *C L Mattoo, father of Priyadarshini Mattoo who was raped and murdered more than 13 years ago by her Law College senior in Delhi, today joined the chorus demanding justice for the two rape and murder victims of Shopian district and called for a probe into the incident by an agency at par with the CBI. "The local investigating agencies are not trained in investigating such cases where the probe has already been botched up. I think an agency parallel to CBI or the central Agency itself should be entrusted with the probe of the Shopian incident," Mattoo, who is in the summer capital of the State, told EXCELSIOR. Mattoo, a Kashmiri Pandit who migrated to Jammu in 1990, said justice had to be done with the victims of the "Shopian tragedy" as it was heinous crime for which the guilty need to be punished. Mattoo's daughter, Priyadarshini, was found raped and murdered at her house in New Delhi on January 23, 1996. On October 17, 2006, the Delhi High Court found Santosh Kumar Singh guilty on both counts of rape and murder and on October 30 of the same year sentenced him to death. Santosh Kumar Singh, the son of an IPS officer, had earlier been acquitted by a trial court in 1999, and the High Court decision was widely perceived in India as a landmark reversal and a measure of the force of media pressure in a democratic setup. Mattoo said the incident highlighted anarchy in the society that despite passage of one month since the tragedy struck on May 30 no apparent headway has been made in the case. Mattoo said religion should not be a considering factor as "the crime was committed against humanity. The victims were just like our sisters and daughters. Such cases should be stamped out from our society and the entire civilised world." He said people from all walks of life across not only India but from entire world should get together in working towards getting justice to the Shopian victims and such victims at other places in the world. He said he would seek support from non-Governmental organisations, who work for such causes, in and outside country to achieve this goal. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 14:41:55 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:41:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Language Research related jobs/ Bi-lingual education at Eklavya In-Reply-To: <597992bf0907010205uc2023e4xc055d1ef27003e56@mail.gmail.com> References: <597992bf0907010205uc2023e4xc055d1ef27003e56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Avinandan Dear Friends, Please feel free to forward this to people who might be interested. Please mail or call up Anjali, for further details. Regards Avinandan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anjali Noronha Date: Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:54 PM Subject: re: people To: mukherjeeapu at gmail.com *Dear Avinandan,* *Below is the outline of our requirements - do pass the word around - submission of cvs and writeups till August 15th.* *Anjali * *Mobile below.* ** *1.** Language Curriculum Development Programme - *Likely posting in Bhopal *Fellow / Senior Research Associate (2)* To develop a bilingual language curriculum and materials (using Hindi and English) in a multi-lingual context for pre-primary to elementary stage. *Qualifications*: Post graduation in Hindi, English, Linguistics, Literary studies, Language education (M.A. in Elementary Education with Language pedagogy as optional), with good competence in both languages and ability to reference and write up on any language related topic. Persons seeking this post must be proficient in writing quality articles and reports which can be published. Please send in your write up of 1000 words on one of the following topics – How children learn language(s); How children learn to read; The challenges of bilingual education; Language policy and politics in India; Language textbooks. *2.** Urban Resource Centre - *Likely posting in Bhopal *Fellows (2) Senior Research Associates (2)* To develop and execute programmes relating to education of urban poor, teaching-learning in urban schools, preschool education, teacher education, researching issues of urban education, etc. *Qualifications*: Post graduation in (child development, language, math, education, social science etc) and work experience in education or educational research. Competence in reading and comprehending both English and Hindi educational articles, reports and studies, ability to write articles, reports, in educational journals and magazines in at least one language, ability and interest in developing education programs at the city level, working in a team, dealing with diverse kinds of people. Send in a write up of 1000 words in either language on any of the following topics – Role of Government, Private Schools and NGOs in urban education; Children, work and education; Teacher’s dilemmas and challenges; The nature of the pre-primary child and its relation to early childhood education, The role of educational theory and practice in teacher education as reflected in Policy and in teacher education courses. Write ups can be in either Hindi or English. Please include references. *Mobile - 09425018266* From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 14:59:14 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:59:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Better India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's a website I'd like to share. This is called The Better India. http://www.thebetterindia.com/ What they say about themselves: "The Better India is an attempt to bring out the happy stories, the unsung heroes and heroines, the small good deeds happening across India and showcase them to the world. Over here, you will be able to read about the incremental progress being made by the industrious people of this country, the developments happening on the social and economic front." From elkamath at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 15:02:09 2009 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 02:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] JNNURM II: Failure is its own reward for MoUD by Kalyani Menon-Sen In-Reply-To: <86b8a7050907010150x512e2112jf794803c37ba50fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <86b8a7050907010150x512e2112jf794803c37ba50fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <692963.30479.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://urbanwatchindia.blogspot.com/ Wednesday, July 1, 2009 JNNURM-II Failure is its own reward for MoUD JNNURM-II Failure is its own reward for MoUD Indian city-dwellers, rejoice! JNNURM Mark Two is coming your way – bigger, brighter, bolder than its first avatar – more money, more reforms, more public-private partnerships, more contracts, more consultancies, more scams, and many many more creative reinterpretations of urban reality. But how has this happened, you ask? Did JNNURM Mark One get where it was supposed to go? Did we not hear that it was facing criticism from several quarters, not just from chronic dissenters like the activist brigade? Did we not see respectable-looking middle-class citizens in some cities rubbing shoulders with scruffy activists and working-class types in street protests against some of the “reforms”? Wasn't there a notice in the papers inviting tenders from individual experts for carrying out the mid-term review of the programme? And wasn't there a rumour that some cheeky citizens were actually mounting their own home-made review? What happened to all of that? Good questions. And there are plenty of answers. There's just one problem - the answers don't add up. Let's do a flashback to the Prime Minister's speech at the star-studded JNNURM launch in 2005. “Our urban economy has become an important driver of economic growth” said the PM. “It is also the bridge between the domestic economy and the global economy. It is a bridge we must strengthen. The latent creativity and vitality of our cities and the people who live in them must be tapped to facilitate higher economic growth.” JNNURM was unveiled as the miracle makeover that would enable 64 of our cities to become candidates in the global swayamvara where corporate investors prowl in search of the perfect marriage between their capital and the “creativity and vitality” of cities. This makeover was to be accomplished in a mere seven years, through a simple but brilliant strategy – polishing up and enhancing the physical infrastructure to bring it up to global standards, and simultaneously getting rid of the ugly evidence of the disorderly and less-than-perfect processes of urbanisation of the past. JNNURM cities, we were told, would be clean, green and beautiful – cleansed of the shanty-towns and unauthorised housing colonies, the noisy pavement markets, the primitive rickshaws and polluting phat-phattis, the street vendors selling unstandardised products at ridiculously low prices, the higgledy-piggledy old neighbourhoods,the stinking landfills, the junkyards, the unhygienic dhabas. In their place would be multilane highways and toll roads, low-floor buses and elevated metros, gleaming malls and food courts, huge airports, high-rise housing, parks and promenades....in short everything gratifyingly like “phoren”. Of course a lot of the rules would need to be rewritten – after all, it would not be appropriate to leave the management of these new global cities in the hands of the old guard, especially when the World Bank and the ADB were telling us how much better market forces were at running cities than anyone else. And no doubt it was entirely in the rightness of things to turn to these same old friends, ever ready with a loan, to underwrite the programme that would put their advice into practice. Needless to say, everything would be done in accordance with the best principles of good governance – online consultations, young professionals and corporations bringing in energy and initiative to design efficient services for the poor, the brightest and best bureaucrats given a free hand and a generous kitty to get things moving, and an impressivebrains trust of experts and luminaries from the NGO world to provide technical advice and inject the civil society perspective into implementation. Of course there were critics and prophets of doom (those self-important activists again). The Urban Development Ministry did not waste any time in responding to irritating questions from this known bunch of World Bank-baiters. The scheme was rolled out in grand style – of the total kitty of Rs. 50,000 crores, 463 projects worth Rs. 49743.46 crore were approved in three years and Rs. 8253 crore was released from the Centre to the States. Cut to the present 3 June 2009. Speaking to a reporter from the Wall Street Journal, some officials of the Ministry of Urban Development (who refuse to be named) come out with an alarming statistic - only 32 of the 463 sanctioned projectshave been completed in the three years since the scheme was launched. In case anyone should think of using this statistic as a stick to beat the Ministry or the scheme itself, the informant hurries to add that this dismal performance is entirely the fault of the States, which had been far too slow and clumsy in acquiring land, shifting existing structures and populations and acquiring the professional competence to handle large projects[1]. Surely, you say, regardless of who is responsible, this qualifies as a big-time fiasco? Apparently not. Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a meeting on 10 June, the Secretary Urban Development was quoted as saying just the opposite."There is definitely good progress made under the mission. Many of the projects (like drainage and sewerage) would not have been taken up otherwise," said Dr. Ramachandran.[2] Dr.Ramachandran is not alone in his complacence. Vinayak Chatterjee, chairman of the National Infrastructure Council of the Confederation of Indian Industry and chairman of consultancy firm Feedback Ventures, is quoted in the same piece as saying "It is a very well crafted intelligent innovative programme. The pity is that the states and city administrators have not been proactive in pulling more funds out of the mission." All of 32 projects in 64 cities in three years, and they manage to attract so much praise? Why are we not impressed?! Strangely, and most unusually, this is one instance where the statistics shared by the unnamed Ministry source are actually endorsed by the folks on the other side of the fence.A Citizens' Review of the JNNURM, undertaken in 16 cities by a coalition of community groups – grassroot activists, workers' organisations, NGOs working in informal settlements – found yawning gaps between the issues prioritised in the City Development Plans and sanctioned projects, and between the sanctioned projects and the real situation on the ground. In the overwhelming majority of cities and locations, there was absolutely no physical evidence of any kind of developmental activity – not even a signboard to mark the fact that this was a JNNURM project site. But Mr.Ramachandran is unfazed. The judgements of mere citizens regarding the success or failure of the programme are neither here nor there if the people who count are happy. On 29 June, the Ministry of Urban Developmentannounced that a follow-up phase of JNNURM was under serious consideration. According to the Ministry spokesperson, more investment was required to reach the targeted levels of infrastructural growth. The proposed JNNURM Mark II will have a seven-year lifespan, a kitty of Rs.100,000 crores – twice the size of the present JNNURM. The new scheme will replace the present one, and will expand its reach all the way down to the level of mofussil towns with populations of 500,000, in addition to providing “top-up funds” to ongoing projects.The scheme has already been forwarded to the Finance Ministry, and the Ministry of Urban Development is hopeful of seeing it incorporated as one of the highlights of the Budget 2009-10. The World Bank, it appears, has already given its nod to the proposal. Of course there is the small matter of the mandatory mid-term review before the World Bank signs on the dotted line and shells out the promised Rs.50,000 crores. Somewhere along the way, the tender for the consultants seems to have been dropped off the agenda. We can only speculate on the reasons. Maybe it was considered too risky? After all, even the best consultants have been known to sometimes bite the hands that feed them! But the Ministry has found the perfect solution – a review by the Prime Minister, no less, assisted by a National Review Committee comprising that tried and trusted band of experts, the JNNURM Technical Advisory Group. In order to bring it up to speed for this onerous task, the TAG has been beefed up with the addition of three new members: Professor Amitava Kundu of JNU (whose credentials as an urban theorist are impeccable); Nandan Nilekani (whose persuasively imagined idea of India is completely in tune with the JNNURM ethos); and Roopa Purushottaman, described in her official bio as “the chief economist and strategist at the Future Group, India’s leading business group that caters to the entire Indian consumption space”. In case you are wondering about Ms.Purushottaman's qualifications for reviewing an urban development programme, we should point out that the Future Group is the corporate umbrella for a retail empire that includes Big Bazaar, Home Town, Capital and Food Bazaar. We can all rest assured that the review process is in safe hands and will surely result in a well-argued case for JNNURM-II. Buoyed up by the assurance of continued largesse in a era where everyone else is cutting down on spending, the corporate sector is regaining its faltering enthusiasm for urban renewal. Experts and visionaries are emerging from unexpected quarters, enthusiastically taking thelead in articulating a vision forthe future of our cities. Take a look, for instance, at the blurb for a conference organised by CII in Delhi on 18 June. “Commonwealth Games 2010 is round the corner and the capital is in the midst of a make-over as the city prepares for the biggest sporting event in its history. Will Delhi seize the chances offered by Commonwealth Games 2010 to boost its economic, social and cultural development. The time is ripe for the city to be transformed into a “World Class City” - what is required is a vision” says the CII. Apart from the usual smattering of ministers and bureaucrats, there were several distinguished experts on various panels: Mr. Navin Raheja of Raheja Developers and Mr. Sudhir Vohra of Sudhir Vohra Consultants in the panel on the Delhi Master Plan; Mr. Sanjay Sharma of Coca Cola in the panel on water supply;Mr. Arjun Walia of Walsons Security Services in the session on public safety and Mr.Ajay Jadeja, sports personality in the session on “action planning for a better tomorrow”. As for the rest of us, we can hold our tongues and wait for that better tomorrow KALYANI MENON-SEN New Delhi ________________________________ [1]Rahul Chandran. 3 June 2009. JNNURM projects lag over land, utilities and personnel problems. Livemint.com, [2]Vandana Gombar. 10 June 2009. Government may double size of JNNURM. Business Standard. Posted by Urban Watch India at 9:05 AM 0 comments Labels: India, Infrastructure, Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban renewal mission, JNNURM, lobbies, PPP, urban reforms agenda ________________________________ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 15:20:31 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:20:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690907010250n1215272eraa4c3bada5f8cbd4@mail.gmail.com> I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The mindset needs to change, for this to happen sometime in future. In solidarity with the victims of separatist violence. On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Junaid, > > Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, > saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once > again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, > and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is > shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir > have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to > accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with > weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. > > I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a > thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read it, > and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our > differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as > you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer > to home, both for you and for me. > > Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the > occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end > > Shuddha > > > > On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > > > Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in > > Kashmir. > > > > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings > > > > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > > > > Varmul On Boil > > > > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained > > critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to quell > > protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > > complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the Hurriyat > > Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on > > Monday. > > Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > > youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > > procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the > > peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > > pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We called > > the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > > allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his > > injuries,” they added. > > > > After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and > > children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the > > streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > > three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them > > critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters > > said. > > They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > > > Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > > Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. > > Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers > > who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth > > were killed. > > > > “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > > quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the > > protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal Bashir, > > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > > Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending upon > > Bilal termed his condition to be critical. > > > > According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > > and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF > > troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army vehicle. > > “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > > men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and beat > > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. > > > > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > > > > Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > > Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters > > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the streets. > > They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened fire > > on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were > > deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and > > fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth retaliated > > with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the > > evening. > > > > The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons > > including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police and > > protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were > > dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by > > hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were > > injured in the clashes. > > > > At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > > road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later > > dispersed off peacefully. > > In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as > > police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > > Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their > > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. > > > > SRINAGAR > > Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the Hurriyat’s > > call even as protests were held at a few places. > > > > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest > > demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF > > troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas > > shelling in which two women were injured. > > > > Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while another > > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > > > > All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government offices > > remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the > > government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. > > However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying > > intermittently. > > > > SOUTH KASHMIR > > > > In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and > > protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni > > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads > > and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The Police and > > CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and police > > personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for > > holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held > > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF bunker > > with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests > > continued till late evening. > > > > A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, > > business and offices remained closed. > > > > Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > > district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were also > > received from Pulwama district. > > ********************************************************************** > > *********************** > > > > Custodial Disappearance > > > > KHALID GUL > > > > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru demonstrated > > for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced > > custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the > > government fails to find the boy in two days. > > > > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > > Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > > camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding > > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had > > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a > > routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at > > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers on > > Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of > > Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme > > steps.” > > “The government has passed instructions that army should inform local > > police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy > > was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said a > > top police official. > > > > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > > everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying to > > convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are > > concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” > > > > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages demonstrated > > against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and > > anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades and > > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > > and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 16:14:02 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:44:02 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Digital Bangladesh: Give Me Lightbulb First Message-ID: Great piece by Delwar.... They move onto the letter I. "I diye ice-cream". "Ice-cream holo ki?" the teacher asks. "Ice-cream holo ice-cream" the pupils answer. Some are surprised that "ice-cream" is the same in English and Bangla. "Ice-cream is bad for you" the teacher cautions. "You will get aches in your bellies if you eat too many of them". The class looks unconvinced. On to J. "J diye jug. Jug holo jug". Now the kids are laughing. This English thing is easy - they're mostly Bangla words! .............. I try to explain "digital Bangladesh" to him. From what he is able to grasp, he thinks it's a good idea. He would like computers for his students. He thinks they will really benefit from them. But he would like a school building first, some books and pens even. A fan for the hot season would also be good, as would be a lightbulb. Digital Bangladesh: virtual dreams, real lives Delwar Hussain, 8 - 05 - 2009 http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/digital-bangladesh-virtual-dreams-real-lives From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 16:26:48 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:26:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <6353c690907010250n1215272eraa4c3bada5f8cbd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907010250n1215272eraa4c3bada5f8cbd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907010356t720a1985l1f8e63e8459ba0e0@mail.gmail.com> Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in Baramulla. Wonder who acts against humanity now ? Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead concentrate on demanding justice for the victims of shopian and other rape victims - with religion no bar. Its insane to butter politics out of this sensitive issue. Or else they can try their luck in any International Disc (Discuss) throw competition, since they won't take part in Indian National games :P On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The mindset needs to change, > for this to happen sometime in future. > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist violence. > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> Dear Junaid, >> >> Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, >> saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once >> again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, >> and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is >> shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir >> have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to >> accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. >> >> I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a >> thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read it, >> and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our >> differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as >> you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer >> to home, both for you and for me. >> >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: >> >> > Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in >> > Kashmir. >> > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings >> > >> > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT >> > >> > Varmul On Boil >> > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained >> > critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to quell >> > protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a >> > complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the Hurriyat >> > Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on >> > Monday. >> > Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of >> > youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a >> > procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet >> > pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We called >> > the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t >> > allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his >> > injuries,” they added. >> > >> > After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and >> > children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the >> > streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, >> > three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them >> > critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters >> > said. >> > They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. >> > >> > Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the >> > Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. >> > Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers >> > who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth >> > were killed. >> > >> > “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the >> > protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal Bashir, >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to >> > Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending upon >> > Bilal termed his condition to be critical. >> > >> > According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles >> > and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF >> > troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army vehicle. >> > “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF >> > men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and beat >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. >> > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE >> > >> > Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the streets. >> > They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened fire >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were >> > deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and >> > fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth retaliated >> > with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the >> > evening. >> > >> > The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons >> > including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police and >> > protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were >> > dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were >> > injured in the clashes. >> > >> > At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore >> > road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later >> > dispersed off peacefully. >> > In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as >> > police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. >> > >> > SRINAGAR >> > Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the Hurriyat’s >> > call even as protests were held at a few places. >> > >> > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest >> > demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF >> > troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas >> > shelling in which two women were injured. >> > >> > Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while another >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. >> > >> > All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government offices >> > remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the >> > government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. >> > However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying >> > intermittently. >> > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR >> > >> > In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and >> > protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads >> > and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The Police and >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and police >> > personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for >> > holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF bunker >> > with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests >> > continued till late evening. >> > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, >> > business and offices remained closed. >> > >> > Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam >> > district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were also >> > received from Pulwama district. >> > ********************************************************************** >> > *********************** >> > >> > Custodial Disappearance >> > >> > KHALID GUL >> > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru demonstrated >> > for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced >> > custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the >> > government fails to find the boy in two days. >> > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, >> > Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a >> > routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. >> > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers on >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of >> > Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme >> > steps.” >> > “The government has passed instructions that army should inform local >> > police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy >> > was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said a >> > top police official. >> > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to >> > everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying to >> > convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are >> > concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” >> > >> > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages demonstrated >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and >> > anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades and >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters >> > and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 16:42:25 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:42:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <6353c690907010356t720a1985l1f8e63e8459ba0e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907010250n1215272eraa4c3bada5f8cbd4@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907010356t720a1985l1f8e63e8459ba0e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907010412g6662264cr7bb6ce094269cf89@mail.gmail.com> Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could happen. it can happen only when there is no proper medical facility at a given place or the ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before suggesting a remedial measure, that too when one has already described it as a mob, one needs to find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. again, this comment is not to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts of utter idiocy that people resort to during the times of strife. sending them to discuss throw competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very easy to write a comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if such remedial measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post about burning ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner that the angry mobs participating in such incidents can divert their energies onto something else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they should also be provided with those opportunities where they can divert their anger. unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you have the right kind of spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is not possible with so much anger and frustration. however, with the occupation of hatefilled forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become ideals. in case if you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better run. On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in Baramulla. Wonder who acts > against humanity now ? > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead concentrate on demanding justice > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims - with religion no bar. > Its insane to butter politics out of this sensitive issue. > > Or else they can try their luck in any International Disc (Discuss) throw > competition, since they won't take part in Indian National games :P > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >wrote: > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The mindset needs to change, > > for this to happen sometime in future. > > > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist violence. > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >wrote: > > > >> Dear Junaid, > >> > >> Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, > >> saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once > >> again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, > >> and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is > >> shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir > >> have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to > >> accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. > >> > >> I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a > >> thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read it, > >> and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our > >> differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as > >> you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer > >> to home, both for you and for me. > >> > >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the > >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end > >> > >> Shuddha > >> > >> > >> > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > >> > >> > Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in > >> > Kashmir. > >> > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings > >> > > >> > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > >> > > >> > Varmul On Boil > >> > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained > >> > critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to quell > >> > protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > >> > complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the Hurriyat > >> > Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on > >> > Monday. > >> > Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > >> > youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > >> > procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the > >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > >> > pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We called > >> > the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > >> > allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his > >> > injuries,” they added. > >> > > >> > After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and > >> > children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the > >> > streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > >> > three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them > >> > critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters > >> > said. > >> > They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > >> > > >> > Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > >> > Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. > >> > Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers > >> > who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth > >> > were killed. > >> > > >> > “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the > >> > protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal Bashir, > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > >> > Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending upon > >> > Bilal termed his condition to be critical. > >> > > >> > According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > >> > and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF > >> > troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army vehicle. > >> > “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > >> > men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and beat > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. > >> > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > >> > > >> > Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters > >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the streets. > >> > They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened fire > >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were > >> > deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and > >> > fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth retaliated > >> > with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the > >> > evening. > >> > > >> > The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons > >> > including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police and > >> > protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were > >> > dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by > >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were > >> > injured in the clashes. > >> > > >> > At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > >> > road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later > >> > dispersed off peacefully. > >> > In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as > >> > police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their > >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. > >> > > >> > SRINAGAR > >> > Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the Hurriyat’s > >> > call even as protests were held at a few places. > >> > > >> > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest > >> > demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF > >> > troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas > >> > shelling in which two women were injured. > >> > > >> > Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while another > >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > >> > > >> > All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government offices > >> > remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the > >> > government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. > >> > However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying > >> > intermittently. > >> > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR > >> > > >> > In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and > >> > protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads > >> > and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The Police and > >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and police > >> > personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for > >> > holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF bunker > >> > with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests > >> > continued till late evening. > >> > > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, > >> > business and offices remained closed. > >> > > >> > Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > >> > district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were also > >> > received from Pulwama district. > >> > ********************************************************************** > >> > *********************** > >> > > >> > Custodial Disappearance > >> > > >> > KHALID GUL > >> > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru demonstrated > >> > for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced > >> > custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the > >> > government fails to find the boy in two days. > >> > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > >> > Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had > >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a > >> > routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > >> > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers on > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of > >> > Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme > >> > steps.” > >> > “The government has passed instructions that army should inform local > >> > police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy > >> > was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said a > >> > top police official. > >> > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > >> > everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying to > >> > convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are > >> > concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” > >> > > >> > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages demonstrated > >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and > >> > anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades and > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > >> > and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> Raqs Media Collective > >> shuddha at sarai.net > >> www.sarai.net > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 16:47:25 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:47:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Disregarding Ambulances in Kashmir Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907010417v5fbc1cd1y91623cbf73435316@mail.gmail.com> I recollect in 1990 , the curfew was extended for many days . Only ambulance and police vehicles were allowed. Even during those days the ambulance were used to ferry terrorists and arms from one part of Srinagar city to other . So sad that people in Kashmir never condemn this and explain that ambulances are for their own and meant for emergency needs. Pawan On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could happen. it can happen > only when there is no proper medical facility at a given place or the > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before suggesting a remedial > measure, that too when one has already described it as a mob, one needs to > find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. again, this comment is not > to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts of utter idiocy that > people resort to during the times of strife. sending them to discuss throw > competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very easy to write a > comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if such remedial > measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post about burning > ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner that the angry mobs > participating in such incidents can divert their energies onto something > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they should also be > provided with those opportunities where they can divert their anger. > unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you have the right kind of > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is not possible with so > much anger and frustration. however, with the occupation of hatefilled > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become ideals. in case if > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better run. > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in Baramulla. Wonder who acts >> against humanity now ? >> >> Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead concentrate on demanding justice >> for the victims of shopian and other rape victims - with religion no bar. >> Its insane to butter politics out of this sensitive issue. >> >> Or else they can try their luck in any International Disc (Discuss) throw >> competition, since they won't take part in Indian National games :P >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >wrote: >> >> > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of >> > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The mindset needs to change, >> > for this to happen sometime in future. >> > >> > In solidarity with the victims of separatist violence. >> > >> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Junaid, >> >> >> >> Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, >> >> saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once >> >> again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, >> >> and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is >> >> shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir >> >> have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to >> >> accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with >> >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. >> >> >> >> I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a >> >> thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read it, >> >> and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our >> >> differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as >> >> you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer >> >> to home, both for you and for me. >> >> >> >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the >> >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end >> >> >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: >> >> >> >> > Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in >> >> > Kashmir. >> >> > >> >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings >> >> > >> >> >  ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT >> >> > >> >> > Varmul On Boil >> >> > >> >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained >> >> > critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to quell >> >> > protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a >> >> > complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the Hurriyat >> >> > Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on >> >> > Monday. >> >> >  Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of >> >> > youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a >> >> > procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the >> >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet >> >> > pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We called >> >> > the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t >> >> > allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his >> >> > injuries,” they added. >> >> > >> >> >  After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and >> >> > children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the >> >> > streets demanding withdrawal of  CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, >> >> > three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them >> >> > critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters >> >> > said. >> >> >  They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. >> >> > >> >> >  Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the >> >> > Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. >> >> > Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers >> >> > who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth >> >> > were killed. >> >> > >> >> >  “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to >> >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the >> >> > protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal Bashir, >> >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to >> >> > Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending upon >> >> > Bilal termed his condition to be critical. >> >> > >> >> >  According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles >> >> > and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF >> >> > troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army vehicle. >> >> > “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF >> >> > men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and beat >> >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. >> >> > >> >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE >> >> > >> >> >  Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, >> >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters >> >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the streets. >> >> > They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened fire >> >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were >> >> > deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and >> >> > fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth retaliated >> >> > with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the >> >> > evening. >> >> > >> >> >  The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons >> >> > including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police and >> >> > protesters.  At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were >> >> > dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by >> >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were >> >> > injured in the clashes. >> >> > >> >> >  At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore >> >> > road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later >> >> > dispersed off peacefully. >> >> >  In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as >> >> > police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. >> >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their >> >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. >> >> > >> >> > SRINAGAR >> >> >  Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the Hurriyat’s >> >> > call even as protests were held at a few places. >> >> > >> >> >  At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest >> >> > demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF >> >> > troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas >> >> > shelling in which two women were injured. >> >> > >> >> >  Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while another >> >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. >> >> > >> >> >  All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government offices >> >> > remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the >> >> > government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. >> >> > However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying >> >> > intermittently. >> >> > >> >> > SOUTH KASHMIR >> >> > >> >> >  In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and >> >> > protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni >> >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads >> >> > and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans.  The Police and >> >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and police >> >> > personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for >> >> > holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held >> >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF bunker >> >> > with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests >> >> > continued till late evening. >> >> > >> >> > A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, >> >> > business and offices remained closed. >> >> > >> >> >  Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam >> >> > district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were also >> >> > received from Pulwama district. >> >> > ********************************************************************** >> >> > *********************** >> >> > >> >> > Custodial Disappearance >> >> > >> >> > KHALID GUL >> >> > >> >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru demonstrated >> >> > for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced >> >> > custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya >> >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the >> >> > government fails to find the boy in two days. >> >> > >> >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, >> >> > Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their >> >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding >> >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had >> >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a >> >> > routine visit and nothing else.  Thereafter he left from here at >> >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. >> >> >  Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers on >> >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of >> >> > Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme >> >> > steps.” >> >> >  “The government has passed instructions that army should inform local >> >> > police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy >> >> > was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said a >> >> > top police official. >> >> > >> >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to >> >> > everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying to >> >> > convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are >> >> > concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” >> >> > >> >> >  Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages demonstrated >> >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and >> >> > anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades and >> >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters >> >> > and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> Raqs Media Collective >> >> shuddha at sarai.net >> >> www.sarai.net >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >> > Cell -  +91-9873297834 >> > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Jul 1 16:48:00 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:48:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <6353c690907010356t720a1985l1f8e63e8459ba0e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907010250n1215272eraa4c3bada5f8cbd4@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907010356t720a1985l1f8e63e8459ba0e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F76840C-DC4E-468D-BD66-8FC84977FBB3@sarai.net> Aditya, If this news is correct. Then it is indeed regrettable and deeply shameful. Ambulances and medical facilities are not supposed to be attacked, or prevented from doing their duties, even in times of war. And whosoever has attacked them, wherever they may have attacked them, regardless of whether or not they are separatists, unaffiliated mobs, or the forces of law and order, in any situation, are worthy only of condemnation. If this is the work of 'pro-Azaadi' elements (as you suggest it is), then they have totally degraded their cause by this act. Shuddha On 01-Jul-09, at 4:26 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in Baramulla. Wonder > who acts > against humanity now ? > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead concentrate on demanding > justice > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims - with religion > no bar. > Its insane to butter politics out of this sensitive issue. > > Or else they can try their luck in any International Disc (Discuss) > throw > competition, since they won't take part in Indian National games :P > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > >> I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of >> terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The mindset needs to >> change, >> for this to happen sometime in future. >> >> In solidarity with the victims of separatist violence. >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Junaid, >>> >>> Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, >>> saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once >>> again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, >>> and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is >>> shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir >>> have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to >>> accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with >>> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. >>> >>> I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a >>> thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read >>> it, >>> and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our >>> differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as >>> you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer >>> to home, both for you and for me. >>> >>> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the >>> occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end >>> >>> Shuddha >>> >>> >>> >>> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: >>> >>>> Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in >>>> Kashmir. >>>> >>>> Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings >>>> >>>> ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT >>>> >>>> Varmul On Boil >>>> >>>> Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained >>>> critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to >>>> quell >>>> protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a >>>> complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the >>>> Hurriyat >>>> Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on >>>> Monday. >>>> Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of >>>> youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking >>>> out a >>>> procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on >>>> the >>>> peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet >>>> pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We >>>> called >>>> the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t >>>> allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his >>>> injuries,” they added. >>>> >>>> After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and >>>> children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to >>>> the >>>> streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2- >>>> days, >>>> three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them >>>> critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters >>>> said. >>>> They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. >>>> >>>> Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the >>>> Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. >>>> Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers >>>> who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth >>>> were killed. >>>> >>>> “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to >>>> quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon >>>> the >>>> protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal >>>> Bashir, >>>> 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to >>>> Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors >>>> attending upon >>>> Bilal termed his condition to be critical. >>>> >>>> According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles >>>> and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF >>>> troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army >>>> vehicle. >>>> “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF >>>> men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and >>>> beat >>>> us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. >>>> >>>> PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE >>>> >>>> Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, >>>> Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters >>>> raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the >>>> streets. >>>> They were demanding action against the erring troopers who >>>> opened fire >>>> on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were >>>> deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and >>>> fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth >>>> retaliated >>>> with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the >>>> evening. >>>> >>>> The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight >>>> persons >>>> including two policemen were injured in the clashes between >>>> police and >>>> protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which >>>> were >>>> dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed >>>> resistance by >>>> hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were >>>> injured in the clashes. >>>> >>>> At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore >>>> road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later >>>> dispersed off peacefully. >>>> In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as >>>> police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. >>>> Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their >>>> homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. >>>> >>>> SRINAGAR >>>> Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the >>>> Hurriyat’s >>>> call even as protests were held at a few places. >>>> >>>> At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest >>>> demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and >>>> CRPF >>>> troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas >>>> shelling in which two women were injured. >>>> >>>> Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while >>>> another >>>> was run over near Gaw Kadal. >>>> >>>> All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government >>>> offices >>>> remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the >>>> government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the >>>> roads. >>>> However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying >>>> intermittently. >>>> >>>> SOUTH KASHMIR >>>> >>>> In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and >>>> protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni >>>> Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the >>>> roads >>>> and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The >>>> Police and >>>> CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and >>>> police >>>> personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth >>>> for >>>> holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held >>>> protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF >>>> bunker >>>> with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests >>>> continued till late evening. >>>> >>>> A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, >>>> business and offices remained closed. >>>> >>>> Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam >>>> district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown >>>> were also >>>> received from Pulwama district. >>>> ******************************************************************* >>>> *** >>>> *********************** >>>> >>>> Custodial Disappearance >>>> >>>> KHALID GUL >>>> >>>> Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru >>>> demonstrated >>>> for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced >>>> custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya >>>> Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the >>>> government fails to find the boy in two days. >>>> >>>> Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, >>>> Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to >>>> their >>>> camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding >>>> Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army >>>> had >>>> called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a >>>> routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at >>>> around 1:00 PM,” he said. >>>> Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by >>>> villagers on >>>> Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of >>>> Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme >>>> steps.” >>>> “The government has passed instructions that army should inform >>>> local >>>> police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the >>>> boy >>>> was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” >>>> said a >>>> top police official. >>>> >>>> Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to >>>> everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been >>>> trying to >>>> convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are >>>> concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” >>>> >>>> Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages >>>> demonstrated >>>> against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and >>>> anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with >>>> barricades and >>>> burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the >>>> protesters >>>> and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >>> Raqs Media Collective >>> shuddha at sarai.net >>> www.sarai.net >>> www.raqsmediacollective.net >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >> Cell - +91-9873297834 >> >> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 17:09:34 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 04:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? Message-ID: <137872.46362.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Javed, Yes this answers my query. Now we can discuss further. 1.Do you think laws are made on a best case scenario? 2.Do you think we can rely on the better judgement of the majority when we choose to be governed by a law? 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE or not for the Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban kind of way? It is precisely for the reason that many interpretations are possible (a Taliban kind of implementation is one of them) that non Muslims,women etc should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, suppose your support for Shariat passively enables an entity like Taliban to come to power.I am assuming you in a democracy you would vote for a political party who stands for Shariat) then would you accept some responsibilty for that or call them "non Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your shoulders?This is exactly how the rise of Taliban has played out in Pakistan. This discussion may be academic because as you have already said that owing to allegiance to your religion abiding by Shariat is your duty.No secular jurisprudence can provide you an alternative to that.So I thank you for discussing this with me anyway. See, the thing is,that liberal interpreters of Shariat want the ideology behind their islamic identity to be just another secular humanist philosophy so badly that they think they can just shut their eyes, click their heels together, and it will all happen just as they want to.Other liberals like Shuddha should realize the danger inherent in this kind of exercise. Thanks Rahul --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed wrote: > From: M Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? > To: "Rahul Asthana" > Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM > Rahul, which shariat are you > referring to when you ask my opinion. > What is the definition of shariat which I want to be > governed with? I > have my own definition of shariat, and I would be very > happy to be > governed under that. My shariat is very much from Islam, > but it gives > queers the right to live happily. > > Hope that answers your query. > > Javed > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > Dear Javed, > > I don't think you have thought this through,which is > why you are unable to make the distinction between "adopt > something from the shariat" and "being governed by > shariat".I just wanted to know whether you are in favor of > making "Shariat a basis for governance" or not.This is the > key .Everything else is just gravy. > > Thanks > > Rahul > > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed > wrote: > > > >> From: M Javed > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the > right to give fatwas? > >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > "sarai list" > >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:40 PM > >> Dear Rahul > >> Here is my clearer position: I have been brought > up in an > >> orthodox > >> Muslim family where shariat was/is considered the > ultimate > >> law/norm to > >> follow for a Muslim. But in my childhood days it > wasn't > >> considered > >> such an evil thing (as Taliban has made it to be). > Let me > >> tell you, > >> following shariat in our daily lives is very > different from > >> making it > >> as a basis for governance. Shariat as a basis of > governance > >> is not > >> something fixed any way - it has been interpreted > >> differently in > >> different Islamic countries. Indonesia, Malaysia > or Turkey > >> also follow > >> shariat but their systems are much more liberal. > That is > >> why I insist: > >> please don't see shariat only through the eyes of > the > >> Taliban/Afghanistan. > >> > >> Whatever name you give it, the point is, is your > system of > >> governance > >> favourable for you. At the moment I am governed > by > >> democracy, whether > >> I like it or not. There are many things I hate in > >> democracy, and would > >> love to change them one day (if I could), even > adopt > >> something from > >> the shariat. Is there something wrong with that? > >> > >> Javed > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Rahul > Asthana > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Javed, > >> > Could you make your position clearer on this > issue? > >> You say- > >> > "My second minor difference is: when you say > "We are > >> not governed by > >> > the Shariat, and I hope we never will be". I > am not > >> sure if Shariat is > >> > all evil." > >> > So, do you wish or do you not, to be governed > by > >> Shariat? > >> > > >> > (Not wishing to be governed by Shariat does > not mean > >> that it is evil.It also does not mean that we > can't adopt > >> good things from it.) > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Rahul > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives > muftis the > >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > >> "sarai list" > >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:46 PM > >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata > >> >> Actually I have a slight digression from > your > >> answer. I > >> >> don't care > >> >> what fatwas the muftis give within their > own > >> coterie (I'm > >> >> sure > >> >> homosexual behaviour exists in the > Deoband madrasa > >> too), > >> >> but the > >> >> problem comes when this news is flashed > on the > >> front-page: > >> >> it > >> >> basically sends a clear signal that > "Muslims" in > >> general > >> >> are against > >> >> homo-sexuality and this is yet another > example of > >> how > >> >> bigoted the > >> >> entire community is, and there are > absolutely no > >> liberals > >> >> (or > >> >> queer-friendly) people among the Muslims > and so > >> on, which > >> >> is not the > >> >> case. In a way, any controversial fatwa > from the > >> Deoband > >> >> (whichever > >> >> damn topic) is taken by the media as a > hot saucy > >> news to be > >> >> flashed to > >> >> show the backwardness of Muslims. But my > question > >> is > >> >> (especially to > >> >> the mainstream media), do these damn > fatwas > >> really > >> >> represent the > >> >> entire Muslim community? Are they so > important > >> that you > >> >> have to flash > >> >> them as headlines. > >> >> > >> >> My second minor difference is: when you > say "We > >> are not > >> >> governed by > >> >> the Shariat, and I hope we never will > be". I am > >> not sure if > >> >> Shariat is > >> >> all evil. Although I don't practice it > strictly, > >> but I know > >> >> it has > >> >> many good things in it which make at > least the > >> good part of > >> >> Islam > >> >> alive. Don't see it only through the eyes > of the > >> Taliban. > >> >> Whether we > >> >> get governed by the shariat or not, I > hope we > >> could at > >> >> least adopt the > >> >> good things about it. And Shariat is not > a fixed > >> set of > >> >> rules; it can > >> >> be and should be open for interpretation, > which > >> these > >> >> muftis have > >> >> stopped doing. > >> >> > >> >> Thanks any way. > >> >> > >> >> Javed > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:53 PM, > Shuddhabrata > >> >> Sengupta > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> > Thank you for forwarding this. I > don't know > >> who gives > >> >> these muftis and > >> >> > tuftis the right to give fatwas, I > think they > >> give it > >> >> to themselves. And > >> >> > since they routinely issue fatwas on > all > >> manner of > >> >> ridiculous matters, we > >> >> > might as well treat this one too > with the > >> lack of > >> >> seriousness that it > >> >> > deserves. > >> >> > We are not governed by the Shariat, > and I > >> hope we > >> >> never will be. Since we > >> >> > are not governed by the Shariat, it > hardly > >> matters > >> >> whether or not Maulana > >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi thinks > homosexuality is > >> an > >> >> offence under Shariat Law. > >> >> > Not even the relevant (and > anachronistic, > >> misogynist > >> >> and patrarchal) > >> >> > sections of Personal Law in matters > of > >> marriage and > >> >> inheritance that govern > >> >> > the lives of Indian Muslims have > anything to > >> say about > >> >> sexual relations in > >> >> > private between consenting adults. > So, not > >> even from > >> >> the completely > >> >> > unacceptabe (to me) standpoint of > defending a > >> separate > >> >> civil code for > >> >> > Muslims is it relevant to discuss > the fate of > >> Section > >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi > >> >> > is barking up the wrong legal tree. > >> >> > Finally, a small historical > digression. > >> Section 377 > >> >> was introduced by the > >> >> > British Colonial Administration in > India. > >> Which, as > >> >> far as i recall, was not > >> >> > exactly a model Islamic state. In > fact, the > >> British > >> >> Colonial authorities > >> >> > presided over the decline and > destruction of > >> >> 'nominally' Muslim political > >> >> > power in India. if, for the roughly > seven > >> hundred > >> >> years preceding the advent > >> >> > of British rule in India, when the > territory > >> happened > >> >> to be ruled largely by > >> >> > Muslim rulers, (some of whom claimed > to be > >> guided by > >> >> the Shariat) it was not > >> >> > found necessary to invoke a > draconian law > >> like section > >> >> 377, are we to then > >> >> > understand that the British > Colonial > >> authority was > >> >> more 'Islamic' than the > >> >> > Mughal rulers, than the rulers of > the Delhi > >> sultanate, > >> >> and many other kings > >> >> > and princes of a Muslim persuasion. > >> >> > And finally, how exactly would we > remember a > >> figure > >> >> like the great Ghazi of > >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of Ghazna and his > love for > >> Ayaz, or > >> >> Razia Sultana and her > >> >> > love for women, or the distinctly > queer > >> ecstasies of > >> >> Amir Khusrau and > >> >> > Sarmad. Each one of these people > saw > >> themselves as > >> >> devout Muslim. And there > >> >> > was nothing unusual in their being > queer > >> Muslims. > >> >> Islamicate societies all > >> >> > over the world have been > historically far > >> more > >> >> tolerant of various different > >> >> > kinds of same-sex relationships both > male and > >> female, > >> >> and transgender > >> >> > identities, than societies largely > anchored > >> in > >> >> Christian values have been. > >> >> > Islam is a sex positive religion. > It > >> celebrates the > >> >> dignity, beauty and > >> >> > diversity of the human body and all > its > >> desires. There > >> >> is (and always has > >> >> > been) a strong case for a queer > theology of > >> liberation > >> >> that is rooted within > >> >> > the Islamicate cultural universe, > and it has > >> had a > >> >> long history, and it will > >> >> > have a long future. > >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is probably just as > ignorant > >> of the > >> >> traditions he claims are > >> >> > his own as Praveen Togadia, the > firebrand > >> leader of > >> >> the Vishwa Hindu > >> >> > Parishad, is. They would probably > make an > >> excellent > >> >> couple, locked happily > >> >> > together within their private closet > of > >> paranoia. > >> >> > Meanwhile, let us hope that Veerappa > Moily's > >> supposed > >> >> u-turn is only a > >> >> > digression, and that the provisions > in > >> Section 377 > >> >> that criminalize the > >> >> > behaviour of consenting adults in > private > >> (which > >> >> should not be the business > >> >> > of the state)  are consigned > finally to > >> where they > >> >> belong - the dustbin of > >> >> > history. > >> >> > And congratulations to all those who > paraded > >> on the > >> >> streets of Delhi, > >> >> > Bangalore, Madras and Calcutta. The > future > >> belongs to > >> >> you (and us all) not > >> >> > to the likes of Maulana Madrasi. > >> >> > regards > >> >> > Shuddha > >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at 3:54 PM, M Javed > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Gay sex against tenets of Islam: > Deoband > >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 hrs IST, PTI > >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: A leading Islamic > seminary > >> on > >> >> Monday opposed > >> >> > Centre's move to repeal a > controversial > >> section of the > >> >> penal law which > >> >> > criminalises homosexuality saying > unnatural > >> sex is > >> >> against the tenets of > >> >> > Islam. > >> >> > "Homosexuality is an offence under > Shariat > >> Law and > >> >> haram (prohibited) > >> >> > in Islam," deputy vice chancellor of > the > >> Darul Uloom > >> >> Deoband Maulana > >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi said. > >> >> > Madrasi also asked the government > not to > >> repeal > >> >> section 377 of IPC > >> >> > which criminalises homosexuality. > >> >> > His objection came a day after law > minister > >> Veerappa > >> >> Moily said a > >> >> > decision on repealing the section > would be > >> taken only > >> >> after > >> >> > considering concerns of all sections > of the > >> society, > >> >> including > >> >> > religious groups like the church. > >> >> > Terming gay activities as crime, > Maulana > >> Salim Kasmi, > >> >> vice-president > >> >> > of the All-India Muslim Personal Law > Board > >> (AIMPLB), > >> >> said > >> >> > homosexuality is punishable under > Islamic law > >> and > >> >> section 377 of IPC > >> >> > should not be tampered. > >> >> > Maulana Mohd Sufiyan Kasmi, an > AIMPLB member, > >> and > >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, > >> >> > president of Uttar Pradesh Imam > Organisation > >> have also > >> >> expressed > >> >> > similar views on the issue. > >> >> > Kasmi said it would be harmful for > the > >> society to > >> >> legalise gay sex. > >> >> > Buoyed by the news that the Centre > is > >> considering > >> >> repealing the > >> >> > controversial section of the IPC, > members of > >> the gay > >> >> community on > >> >> > Sunday held parades in several > cities. > >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms > >> >> > > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list > on media > >> and the > >> >> city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> with subscribe > >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: > >> >> > > >> >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> >> > Raqs Media Collective > >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> > www.sarai.net > >> >> > www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > >> the > >> >> city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> with subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 17:19:33 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:19:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <341380d00907010412g6662264cr7bb6ce094269cf89@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907010250n1215272eraa4c3bada5f8cbd4@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907010356t720a1985l1f8e63e8459ba0e0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907010412g6662264cr7bb6ce094269cf89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907010449s61c06b0fg5d277ced3d6caacc@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam.. I'm not wondering of even an iota of humanity in a mob, especially those ones directed by separatist elements in Kashmir. Long ago I was on the receiving end, when we had to leave our homes in early morning darkness in 1990. We met with an exodus, due to fear of gun culture and slogans from mosque loud speakers against our women-folk. The situation is no better now. When the mentally sick mob could attack the minority unarmed population without a reason to justify their horrific act, I've reasons to believe they can blindly torch an ambulance under orders from Malik's and Geelani's. I just recommended disc throw. There of course are several other opportunities with the local Kashmiri Muslim population. I can give hundreds of examples. Quazi Toqeer could win the Indian Idol, even though he came from a far off village in Kashmir. Similarly, Athaer Parvaz has joined another reality show on a popular entertainment channel. There are travel companies and shawl emporiums throughout the globe and in each Indian city with Kashmiris doing brisk business. They don't have any anger towards the system. They have adequate opportunities and are proud Indians. I wish Omar Abdullah provides good employment opportunities to these local Kashmiris, so that they don't get carried away into these violent separatist funded protests for mere few hundred rupees. It is easy to take the separatist line, 'coz it has media melting in immediately. But, it is difficult to speak and support the truth in Kashmir. For obvious reasons. I still wonder why there have been no protests in Kashmir for two ladies who fell to the bullets of terrorists (Hizbul) ? One of them hailed from Shopian. I would appreciate if the Majlis of Shopian chaired by Mohd. Shafi Khan, takes note of it and includes it in the protests and not give away this to separatist pressure. I'm not asking this time to campaign for Kashmiri Pandit rape/murder victims. Not even asking to demand immediate arrest and death penalty to terrorist and rapist YASIN MALIK. I don't expect that to happen anyways. Hope all in this list are aware that local Pandits of Kashmir are as well participating in the Shopian protests peacefully wearing black bands. On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could happen. it can > happen > only when there is no proper medical facility at a given place or the > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before suggesting a > remedial > measure, that too when one has already described it as a mob, one needs to > find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. again, this comment is not > to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts of utter idiocy that > people resort to during the times of strife. sending them to discuss throw > competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very easy to write a > comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if such remedial > measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post about burning > ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner that the angry mobs > participating in such incidents can divert their energies onto something > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they should also be > provided with those opportunities where they can divert their anger. > unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you have the right kind of > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is not possible with so > much anger and frustration. however, with the occupation of hatefilled > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become ideals. in case if > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better run. > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in Baramulla. Wonder who > acts > > against humanity now ? > > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead concentrate on demanding > justice > > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims - with religion no bar. > > Its insane to butter politics out of this sensitive issue. > > > > Or else they can try their luck in any International Disc (Discuss) throw > > competition, since they won't take part in Indian National games :P > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >wrote: > > > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of > > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The mindset needs to > change, > > > for this to happen sometime in future. > > > > > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist violence. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta < > shuddha at sarai.net > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Junaid, > > >> > > >> Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, they are, as always, > > >> saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that the CRPF have once > > >> again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets is deeply shameful, > > >> and that they prevented ambulances from reaching the injured is > > >> shocking. It is as if those who administer the occupation of Kashmir > > >> have no remorse for their bloody record and no capacity either, to > > >> accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' on the streets with > > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed every time this happens. > > >> > > >> I also appreciate and respect the trouble taken by you to post a > > >> thoughtful and critical reply to my postings on Iran. I have read it, > > >> and will do so again, carefully, and respond, in detail. Our > > >> differences on Iran will probably remain, but this does not mean, as > > >> you point out that we are incapable of solidarity on matters, closer > > >> to home, both for you and for me. > > >> > > >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the hope that someday, the > > >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms will end > > >> > > >> Shuddha > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > > >> > > >> > Thought some of you might be interested in what is happening in > > >> > Kashmir. > > >> > > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings > > >> > > > >> > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > > >> > > > >> > Varmul On Boil > > >> > > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was killed and a minor sustained > > >> > critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire to > quell > > >> > protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > > >> > complete shutdown in response to the strike call given by the > Hurriyat > > >> > Conference (G) against the killing of two youth in police firing on > > >> > Monday. > > >> > Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > > >> > youth took to the streets at Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > > >> > procession. “Paramilitary troopers deployed there opened fire on the > > >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > > >> > pierced through his chest and he started bleeding profusely. We > called > > >> > the hospital and asked for an ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > > >> > allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and he succumbed to his > > >> > injuries,” they added. > > >> > > > >> > After the word about his death spread, hundreds of men, women and > > >> > children raising pro-freedom and anti-India slogans poured on to the > > >> > streets demanding withdrawal of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > > >> > three youth have been killed and scores injured many of them > > >> > critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn from the town,” protesters > > >> > said. > > >> > They vowed to continue the protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > >> > > > >> > Earlier in the morning hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > > >> > Varmul town and took to the streets to give vent to their ire. > > >> > Protesters were demanding action against the policemen and troopers > > >> > who had opened fire on the protesters yesterday in which two youth > > >> > were killed. > > >> > > > >> > “As they tried to march ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > > >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke canisters and later fired upon the > > >> > protesters injuring scores of them. A bullet hit a minor Bilal > Bashir, > > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > > >> > Srinagar for specialized treatment,” they said. Doctors attending > upon > > >> > Bilal termed his condition to be critical. > > >> > > > >> > According to the witnesses, an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > > >> > and his men along with a few civilians were beaten by the CRPF > > >> > troopers when they were shifting Bilal to hospital in an army > vehicle. > > >> > “As the vehicle reached the main chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > > >> > men. They dragged us and the RR personnel out of the vehicle and > beat > > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the vehicle. > > >> > > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > > >> > > > >> > Protests also rocked several areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > > >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied the curfew. Protesters > > >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans marched through the > streets. > > >> > They were demanding action against the erring troopers who opened > fire > > >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen and troopers who were > > >> > deployed in the strength in the area beat them up with batons and > > >> > fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. However, youth > retaliated > > >> > with stones, triggering clashes which continued till late in the > > >> > evening. > > >> > > > >> > The protests also spilled to Bandipore district where eight persons > > >> > including two policemen were injured in the clashes between police > and > > >> > protesters. At main town, Bandipore, youth held protests which were > > >> > dealt with force by police. However, protesters showed resistance by > > >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen persons including two policemen were > > >> > injured in the clashes. > > >> > > > >> > At Sumbal, people held protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > > >> > road by burning tyres and erecting blockades. The protesters later > > >> > dispersed off peacefully. > > >> > In Kupwara, authorities had imposed curfew-like restrictions as > > >> > police and paramilitary troopers blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > > >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t allow them to move out of their > > >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed a complete shutdown. > > >> > > > >> > SRINAGAR > > >> > Life remained crippled in Srinagar city in response to the > Hurriyat’s > > >> > call even as protests were held at a few places. > > >> > > > >> > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, youth staged protest > > >> > demonstrations against the Varmul killings. However, police and CRPF > > >> > troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed protests by teargas > > >> > shelling in which two women were injured. > > >> > > > >> > Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a woman on her hand while > another > > >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > > >> > > > >> > All the shops, educational institutions, banks and government > offices > > >> > remained closed. Barring civil secretariat, attendance in the > > >> > government offices was nil. Public transport remained off the roads. > > >> > However, in uptown areas, private vehicles could be seen plying > > >> > intermittently. > > >> > > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR > > >> > > > >> > In Islamabad district, clashes broke out between the police and > > >> > protestors early in the morning at several places including Cheeni > > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The protestors came out on the roads > > >> > and started raising pro-freedom and anti-army slogans. The Police > and > > >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse them. Later CRPF and > police > > >> > personnel beat up several pedestrians and arrested several youth for > > >> > holding demos. Youth again regrouped in the afternoon and held > > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF > bunker > > >> > with stones but were later chased away by troopers. The protests > > >> > continued till late evening. > > >> > > > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in the entire district as shops, > > >> > business and offices remained closed. > > >> > > > >> > Normal life also came to stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > > >> > district in view of the complete strike. Reports of shutdown were > also > > >> > received from Pulwama district. > > >> > > ********************************************************************** > > >> > *********************** > > >> > > > >> > Custodial Disappearance > > >> > > > >> > KHALID GUL > > >> > > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of Larkipora in Dooru > demonstrated > > >> > for the second consecutive day on Tuesday against the enforced > > >> > custodial disappearance of a teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > > >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to intensify agitation if the > > >> > government fails to find the boy in two days. > > >> > > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > > >> > Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > > >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing since. The Commanding > > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, admitted on Monday that army had > > >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on Sunday. “It was just a > > >> > routine visit and nothing else. Thereafter he left from here at > > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > > >> > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action Committee formed by villagers > on > > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to tell us whereabouts of > > >> > Basharat in two days. After that we will be forced to take extreme > > >> > steps.” > > >> > “The government has passed instructions that army should inform > local > > >> > police before summoning or releasing a person. In this case, the boy > > >> > was called to the camp and then released without informing us,” said > a > > >> > top police official. > > >> > > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > > >> > everyone because he is youngest in our family. We have been trying > to > > >> > convince mother that he is safe but she is very worried. And we are > > >> > concerned about her too because she is a cardiac patient.” > > >> > > > >> > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and some adjacent villages > demonstrated > > >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. They shouted pro-freedom and > > >> > anti-army slogans and blocked Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades > and > > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > > >> > and supported the two day deadline set by the Action Committee. > > >> > _________________________________________ > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > >> www.sarai.net > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 1 17:23:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:53:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 28 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907010453w3cb7444ftf3ef065c27834b0c@mail.gmail.com> Dear All As the answer given by the minister of state of LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS indicates, ' It is not possible to cover all the electors under the scheme of issue of I. Cards at any given point of time.' why is it then the honorable members of GOI want us to believe that the entire country can be covered with MNIC or UID? Till 2000 when the various state ministries could not even spend 500 crore in providing voter ID cards, then why the GOI is hellbent on sanctioning 1.5 crore rupees for MNIC? Why is a boss of private software firm given a cabinet-level rank as the man-in-charge of UID? Is there any legal basis for such a post? Regards Taha http://164.100.47.132/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=7110 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF LAW , JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 660 ANSWERED ON 27.07.2000 IDENTITY CARDS TO VOTERS 660 . Shri RASHID ALVI (a) whether Identity Cards have been issued to every voter in the country as laid down by the Election Commission of India; (b) if not, the reasons therefor; and (c) the total expenditure incurred so far and anticipated for this work? ANSWER THE MINISTER OF STATE OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY) (a) & (b) : The process of registration of electors and preparation of photo Identity Cards of electors are continuous and ongoing processes. It is not possible to cover all the electors under the scheme of issue of I. Cards at any given point of time. The Election Commission has informed that about 38 crores electors representing 62 per cent of the eligible electors of the country have so far been provided these cards. The scheme has not so far been extended to the State of Jammu and Kashmir. The work in this regard has also not started in Assam and Mizoram till now although the programme has been extended to these States. (c) : A sum of Rs.419,45,61,710/- has been released by the Central Government to the States/Union territories specifically for expenditure on the scheme of electors` Photo Identity Cards between 1994-95 and 1999-2000. In this connection, it may be stated that as the scheme is being implemented by the State Governments/Union territory Administrations directly and the Central Government`s role is limited to reimbursement of their share (on 50:50 basis) to them as and when the same is claimed by them, it is not possible to anticipate the likely expenditure in this regard. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 1 17:25:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:55:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 29 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907010455j7d7c9804xa375f1331e91d391@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=8567 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 2499 ANSWERED ON 08.08.2000 CITIZENSHIP IDENTITY CARDS 2499 . Shri NEDURUMALLI JANARDHANA REDDY (a) whether the Delhi High Court in its recent judgement has stated that claim of citizenship cannot be validated only by obtaining EC`s Photo Identity card or ration card; (b) if so, whether the Government have been actively considering to issue citizenship Identity cards to all the actual residents in the country; and (c) if so, the time by which it is likely to be done and the steps the Government propose to take to deport all the foreign nationals from the country? ANSWER THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO) (a): Yes, Sir. (b): A proposal for compulsory registration of all citizens in the country and issuing them Multi-Purpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) has been under consideration in this Ministry. A feasibility study in respect of this scheme is presently under preparation. (c): Detection and deportation of foreign nationals staying illegally in the country is an on going process. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 17:26:46 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:56:46 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] False prophet of the Bangla left Message-ID: Iranian president has already privatized the postal service, sold shares in two state-owned banks and a sale of 5 percent of shares in a state-owned steel company. According to the Iran Privatization Organization, a state ministry, some 247 state enterprises been partly or fully privatized since Ahmadinejad took office in 2005. Ahmadinejad has tried to camouflage the privatization process by doling out "justice shares" of stock in privatized state companies to the poor. These assets, distributed to about 6 million people, were worth $2.5 billion in the first two years of Ahmadinejad's term. The model here is the privatization process in Russia and Eastern Europe, where crooked entrepreneurs were able to buy up the stocks for cheap to create huge new private monopolies based on former state assets. In any case, stocks thinly scattered among the poor won't provide much help for the 8 million people (out of a population of 76 million) who live in extreme poverty. Indeed, if Ahmadinejad succeeds in handing the benefits of privatization to his allies in the basij and the security apparatus, it could reconfigure Iranian capitalism. The Islamist right and the war veteran generation could make the transition from their careers in the national security apparatus and sanctions-busting smuggling operations into entrepreneurs, much as the Stalinist bureaucrats did in Russia during the 1990s. http://socialistworker.org/2009/07/01/roots-of-irans-revolt From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 1 17:45:00 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:15:00 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Excerpts from a speech delivered by the President of India, Smt. Pratibha Devisingh Patil to Parliament Message-ID: <65be9bf40907010515v38e90a58h40e836f10da1cb91@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Following excerpts are culled from an Address by the President of India, Smt. Pratibha Devisingh Patil to Parliament on the occasion of the Joint Session of 15th Lok Sabha in New Delhi. The excerpts relate to identity cards. 1. The Unique Identity Card scheme for each citizen will be implemented in three years overseen by an Empowered Group. This would serve the purpose of identification for development programmes and security. 2. Provision of scholarships and social security schemes through accounts in post offices and banks and phased transition to smart cards; 3. Targeted identification cards would subsume and replace omnibus Below Poverty Line (BPL) list. NREGA has a job card and the proposed Food Security Act would also create a new card. Identification of beneficiaries for other programmes which currently use the omnibus BPL list would improve identification based on programme objectives with the common underlying principle that all identification of beneficiaries will be done through gram sabhas and urban local bodies and the list placed in the public domain to be open to challenge; The complete text of the address could be accessed here- http://www.hinduonnet.com/nic/presidentjointsession.htm Warm regards Taha From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Jul 1 17:52:20 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:52:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Urban population : Iran Message-ID: <585F91EC-A44F-4E5B-B72E-3C35E37F47F0@sarai.net> dear all, the slant in many writings about iran, presents a spilt between urban and rural, where rural is marked poor and urban as elite etc. it maybe worthwhile to look carefully at the urban population in Iran. It is about 60% and rapidly growing. It maybe worthwhile to think this through within the context of the present unrest. warmly jeebesh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iran_cities_by_population Iran has one of the highest urban growth rates in the world. From 1950 to 2002, the urban proportion of the population increased from 27% to 60%.[1] The United Nations predicts that by 2030 80% of the population will be urban.[2] Most internal migrants have settled near the cities of Tehran, Isfahan, Ahvaz, and Qom. Tehran, with population of 7.7 million, is the largest city in Iran and is the Capital city. Tehran is home to around 11% of Iran's population. It is the hub of the country's communication and transport network. Mashhad, with a population of 2.4 million, is the second largest Iranian city and the centre of the province of Razavi Khorasan. Mashhad is one of the holiest Shi'a cities in the world as it is the site of the Imam Reza shrine. It is the centre of tourism in Iran and between 15 and 20 million pilgrims go to the Imam Reza's shrine every year.[3][4] Another major Iranian city is Isfahan (population 1.5 million), which is the capital of Isfahan Province. The growth of suburb area around the city has turned Isfahan to the second most populous metropolitan area (3.4 million).[5] The forth major city of Iran is Tabriz (population 1.3 million) capital of the East Azarbaijan province which is the second industrial city of Iran after Tehran. Tabriz has been the second largest city in Iran until the late 1960s and one of its former capitals. The other major cities are Karaj (population 1.3 million), and Shiraz (population 1.2 million). Karaj is located inTehran province and is situated 20 km west of Tehran, at the foot of Alborz mountains; however, the city is increasingly becoming an extension of metropolitan Tehran. From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 18:45:12 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 06:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir Message-ID: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Kaul, I will only give a brief comment.People find it easy to curse & protest against CRPF/Police/Govt but are either scared to protest against actions of terrorists or are just disinterested. None can understand the anguish and pain except the ones who have suffered.We have seen this at the time of partition. Regards (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009,5:19 PM > Dear Anupam.. > > I'm not wondering of even an iota of humanity in a mob, > especially those > ones directed by separatist elements in Kashmir. Long ago I > was on the > receiving end, when we had to leave our homes in early > morning darkness in > 1990. We met with an exodus, due to fear of gun culture and > slogans from > mosque loud speakers against our women-folk. The situation > is no better now. > When the mentally sick mob could attack the minority > unarmed population > without a reason to justify their horrific act, I've > reasons to believe they > can blindly torch an ambulance under orders from Malik's > and Geelani's. > > I just recommended disc throw. There of course are several > other > opportunities with the local Kashmiri Muslim population. I > can give hundreds > of examples. Quazi Toqeer could win the Indian Idol, even > though he came > from a far off village in Kashmir. Similarly, Athaer Parvaz > has joined > another reality show on a popular entertainment channel. > There are travel > companies and shawl emporiums throughout the globe and in > each Indian city > with Kashmiris doing brisk business. They don't have any > anger towards the > system. They have adequate opportunities and are proud > Indians. > > I wish Omar Abdullah provides good employment opportunities > to these local > Kashmiris, so that they don't get carried away into these > violent separatist > funded protests for mere few hundred rupees. > > It is easy to take the separatist line, 'coz it has media > melting in > immediately. But, it is difficult to speak and support the > truth in Kashmir. > For obvious reasons. > > I still wonder why there have been no protests in Kashmir > for two ladies who > fell to the bullets of terrorists (Hizbul) ? One of them > hailed from > Shopian. > > I would appreciate if the Majlis of Shopian chaired by > Mohd. Shafi Khan, > takes note of it and includes it in the protests and not > give away this to > separatist pressure. > > I'm not asking this time to campaign for Kashmiri Pandit > rape/murder > victims. Not even asking to demand immediate arrest and > death penalty to > terrorist and rapist YASIN MALIK. I don't expect that to > happen anyways. > > Hope all in this list are aware that local Pandits of > Kashmir are as well > participating in the Shopian protests peacefully wearing > black bands. > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could > happen. it can > > happen > > only when there is no proper medical facility at a > given place or the > > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before > suggesting a > > remedial > > measure, that too when one has already described it as > a mob, one needs to > > find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. > again, this comment is not > > to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts > of utter idiocy that > > people resort to during the times of strife. sending > them to discuss throw > > competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very > easy to write a > > comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if > such remedial > > measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post > about burning > > ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner > that the angry mobs > > participating in such incidents can divert their > energies onto something > > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they > should also be > > provided with those opportunities where they can > divert their anger. > > unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you > have the right kind of > > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is > not possible with so > > much anger and frustration. however, with the > occupation of hatefilled > > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become > ideals. in case if > > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better > run. > > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > > > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in > Baramulla. Wonder who > > acts > > > against humanity now ? > > > > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead > concentrate on demanding > > justice > > > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims > - with religion no bar. > > > Its insane to butter politics out of this > sensitive issue. > > > > > > Or else they can try their luck in any > International Disc (Discuss) throw > > > competition, since they won't take part in Indian > National games :P > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by > force of > > > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. > The mindset needs to > > change, > > > > for this to happen sometime in future. > > > > > > > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist > violence. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata > Sengupta < > > shuddha at sarai.net > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > >> Dear Junaid, > > > >> > > > >> Many thanks for these details from > Kashmir, they are, as always, > > > >> saddening. The loss of life, and the > fact that the CRPF have once > > > >> again attacked unarmed protestors with > bullets is deeply shameful, > > > >> and that they prevented ambulances from > reaching the injured is > > > >> shocking. It is as if those who > administer the occupation of Kashmir > > > >> have no remorse for their bloody record > and no capacity either, to > > > >> accept the humanity of those they > 'encounter' on the streets with > > > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am > ashamed every time this happens. > > > >> > > > >> I also appreciate and respect the > trouble taken by you to post a > > > >> thoughtful and critical reply to my > postings on Iran. I have read it, > > > >> and will do so again, carefully, and > respond, in detail. Our > > > >> differences on Iran will probably > remain, but this does not mean, as > > > >> you point out that we are incapable of > solidarity on matters, closer > > > >> to home, both for you and for me. > > > >> > > > >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and > with the hope that someday, the > > > >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of > arms will end > > > >> > > > >> Shuddha > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Thought some of you might be > interested in what is happening in > > > >> > Kashmir. > > > >> > > > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest > Killings > > > >> > > > > >> >  ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > > > >> > > > > >> > Varmul On Boil > > > >> > > > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth > was killed and a minor sustained > > > >> > critical injuries when paramilitary > CRPF troopers opened fire to > > quell > > > >> > protesters at Varmul in north > Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > > > >> > complete shutdown in response to > the strike call given by the > > Hurriyat > > > >> > Conference (G) against the killing > of two youth in police firing on > > > >> > Monday. > > > >> >  Witnesses told Greater > Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > > > >> > youth took to the streets at > Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > > > >> > procession. “Paramilitary > troopers deployed there opened fire on the > > > >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a > youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > > > >> > pierced through his chest and he > started bleeding profusely. We > > called > > > >> > the hospital and asked for an > ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > > > >> > allow the ambulance to enter > Khanpora and he succumbed to his > > > >> > injuries,” they added. > > > >> > > > > >> >  After the word about his > death spread, hundreds of men, women and > > > >> > children raising pro-freedom and > anti-India slogans poured on to the > > > >> > streets demanding withdrawal > of  CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > > > >> > three youth have been killed and > scores injured many of them > > > >> > critically. The CRPF should be > withdrawn from the town,” protesters > > > >> > said. > > > >> >  They vowed to continue the > protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > > >> > > > > >> >  Earlier in the morning > hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > > > >> > Varmul town and took to the streets > to give vent to their ire. > > > >> > Protesters were demanding action > against the policemen and troopers > > > >> > who had opened fire on the > protesters yesterday in which two youth > > > >> > were killed. > > > >> > > > > >> >  “As they tried to march > ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > > > >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke > canisters and later fired upon the > > > >> > protesters injuring scores of them. > A bullet hit a minor Bilal > > Bashir, > > > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near > Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > > > >> > Srinagar for specialized > treatment,” they said. Doctors attending > > upon > > > >> > Bilal termed his condition to be > critical. > > > >> > > > > >> >  According to the witnesses, > an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > > > >> > and his men along with a few > civilians were beaten by the CRPF > > > >> > troopers when they were shifting > Bilal to hospital in an army > > vehicle. > > > >> > “As the vehicle reached the main > chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > > > >> > men. They dragged us and the RR > personnel out of the vehicle and > > beat > > > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in > the vehicle. > > > >> > > > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > > > >> > > > > >> >  Protests also rocked several > areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > > > >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth > defied the curfew. Protesters > > > >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF > slogans marched through the > > streets. > > > >> > They were demanding action against > the erring troopers who opened > > fire > > > >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. > Policemen and troopers who were > > > >> > deployed in the strength in the > area beat them up with batons and > > > >> > fired tear smoke canisters to > disperse them. However, youth > > retaliated > > > >> > with stones, triggering clashes > which continued till late in the > > > >> > evening. > > > >> > > > > >> >  The protests also spilled to > Bandipore district where eight persons > > > >> > including two policemen were > injured in the clashes between police > > and > > > >> > protesters.  At main town, > Bandipore, youth held protests which were > > > >> > dealt with force by police. > However, protesters showed resistance by > > > >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen > persons including two policemen were > > > >> > injured in the clashes. > > > >> > > > > >> >  At Sumbal, people held > protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > > > >> > road by burning tyres and erecting > blockades. The protesters later > > > >> > dispersed off peacefully. > > > >> >  In Kupwara, authorities had > imposed curfew-like restrictions as > > > >> > police and paramilitary troopers > blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > > > >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t > allow them to move out of their > > > >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns > observed a complete shutdown. > > > >> > > > > >> > SRINAGAR > > > >> >  Life remained crippled in > Srinagar city in response to the > > Hurriyat’s > > > >> > call even as protests were held at > a few places. > > > >> > > > > >> >  At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and > Nowhatta, youth staged protest > > > >> > demonstrations against the Varmul > killings. However, police and CRPF > > > >> > troopers, deployed in strength, > suppressed protests by teargas > > > >> > shelling in which two women were > injured. > > > >> > > > > >> >  Witnesses said a teargas > shell hit a woman on her hand while > > another > > > >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > > > >> > > > > >> >  All the shops, educational > institutions, banks and government > > offices > > > >> > remained closed. Barring civil > secretariat, attendance in the > > > >> > government offices was nil. Public > transport remained off the roads. > > > >> > However, in uptown areas, private > vehicles could be seen plying > > > >> > intermittently. > > > >> > > > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR > > > >> > > > > >> >  In Islamabad district, > clashes broke out between the police and > > > >> > protestors early in the morning at > several places including Cheeni > > > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The > protestors came out on the roads > > > >> > and started raising pro-freedom and > anti-army slogans.  The Police > > and > > > >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to > disperse them. Later CRPF and > > police > > > >> > personnel beat up several > pedestrians and arrested several youth for > > > >> > holding demos. Youth again > regrouped in the afternoon and held > > > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni > Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF > > bunker > > > >> > with stones but were later chased > away by troopers. The protests > > > >> > continued till late evening. > > > >> > > > > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in > the entire district as shops, > > > >> > business and offices remained > closed. > > > >> > > > > >> >  Normal life also came to > stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > > > >> > district in view of the complete > strike. Reports of shutdown were > > also > > > >> > received from Pulwama district. > > > >> > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > >> > *********************** > > > >> > > > > >> > Custodial Disappearance > > > >> > > > > >> > KHALID GUL > > > >> > > > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People > of Larkipora in Dooru > > demonstrated > > > >> > for the second consecutive day on > Tuesday against the enforced > > > >> > custodial disappearance of a > teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > > > >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed > to intensify agitation if the > > > >> > government fails to find the boy in > two days. > > > >> > > > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad > Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > > > >> > Larkipora was summoned by the > troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > > > >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is > missing since. The Commanding > > > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, > admitted on Monday that army had > > > >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 > AM on Sunday. “It was just a > > > >> > routine visit and nothing > else.  Thereafter he left from here at > > > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > > > >> >  Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads > Action Committee formed by villagers > > on > > > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the > government to tell us whereabouts of > > > >> > Basharat in two days. After that we > will be forced to take extreme > > > >> > steps.” > > > >> >  “The government has passed > instructions that army should inform > > local > > > >> > police before summoning or > releasing a person. In this case, the boy > > > >> > was called to the camp and then > released without informing us,” said > > a > > > >> > top police official. > > > >> > > > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of > Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > > > >> > everyone because he is youngest in > our family. We have been trying > > to > > > >> > convince mother that he is safe but > she is very worried. And we are > > > >> > concerned about her too because she > is a cardiac patient.” > > > >> > > > > >> >  Meanwhile, people of Chakpath > and some adjacent villages > > demonstrated > > > >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. > They shouted pro-freedom and > > > >> > anti-army slogans and blocked > Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades > > and > > > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad > Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > > > >> > and supported the two day deadline > set by the Action Committee. > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > >> > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > > >> www.sarai.net > > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _________________________________________ > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 18:56:43 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:56:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> Dear Mr Malik, The reason why you have chosen turn a blind eye to the forces occupying Kashmir is because it becomes an easier task to say that seperatists commit atrocities because they are bunch of hooligans up in arms against the state, while police forces are for maintanence of law and order, so whatever they do, it has to be under the garb of law and order. lets face it -- both separatists followed by the security forces are only destroying Kashmir. people are obviously opposed to violence in any form be it seperatists or forces. however, they have more expectations from the forces as they represent some form of protection also, which is why such protests are there. those who protect cannot become rapists or murderers. they just cannot. anupam On 7/1/09, A.K. Malik wrote: > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > I will only give a brief comment.People find it easy to curse & > protest against CRPF/Police/Govt but are either scared to protest against > actions of terrorists or are just disinterested. > None can understand the anguish and pain except the ones who have > suffered.We have seen this at the time of partition. > Regards > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009,5:19 PM > > Dear Anupam.. > > > > I'm not wondering of even an iota of humanity in a mob, > > especially those > > ones directed by separatist elements in Kashmir. Long ago I > > was on the > > receiving end, when we had to leave our homes in early > > morning darkness in > > 1990. We met with an exodus, due to fear of gun culture and > > slogans from > > mosque loud speakers against our women-folk. The situation > > is no better now. > > When the mentally sick mob could attack the minority > > unarmed population > > without a reason to justify their horrific act, I've > > reasons to believe they > > can blindly torch an ambulance under orders from Malik's > > and Geelani's. > > > > I just recommended disc throw. There of course are several > > other > > opportunities with the local Kashmiri Muslim population. I > > can give hundreds > > of examples. Quazi Toqeer could win the Indian Idol, even > > though he came > > from a far off village in Kashmir. Similarly, Athaer Parvaz > > has joined > > another reality show on a popular entertainment channel. > > There are travel > > companies and shawl emporiums throughout the globe and in > > each Indian city > > with Kashmiris doing brisk business. They don't have any > > anger towards the > > system. They have adequate opportunities and are proud > > Indians. > > > > I wish Omar Abdullah provides good employment opportunities > > to these local > > Kashmiris, so that they don't get carried away into these > > violent separatist > > funded protests for mere few hundred rupees. > > > > It is easy to take the separatist line, 'coz it has media > > melting in > > immediately. But, it is difficult to speak and support the > > truth in Kashmir. > > For obvious reasons. > > > > I still wonder why there have been no protests in Kashmir > > for two ladies who > > fell to the bullets of terrorists (Hizbul) ? One of them > > hailed from > > Shopian. > > > > I would appreciate if the Majlis of Shopian chaired by > > Mohd. Shafi Khan, > > takes note of it and includes it in the protests and not > > give away this to > > separatist pressure. > > > > I'm not asking this time to campaign for Kashmiri Pandit > > rape/murder > > victims. Not even asking to demand immediate arrest and > > death penalty to > > terrorist and rapist YASIN MALIK. I don't expect that to > > happen anyways. > > > > Hope all in this list are aware that local Pandits of > > Kashmir are as well > > participating in the Shopian protests peacefully wearing > > black bands. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > > > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could > > happen. it can > > > happen > > > only when there is no proper medical facility at a > > given place or the > > > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before > > suggesting a > > > remedial > > > measure, that too when one has already described it as > > a mob, one needs to > > > find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. > > again, this comment is not > > > to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts > > of utter idiocy that > > > people resort to during the times of strife. sending > > them to discuss throw > > > competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very > > easy to write a > > > comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if > > such remedial > > > measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post > > about burning > > > ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner > > that the angry mobs > > > participating in such incidents can divert their > > energies onto something > > > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they > > should also be > > > provided with those opportunities where they can > > divert their anger. > > > unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you > > have the right kind of > > > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is > > not possible with so > > > much anger and frustration. however, with the > > occupation of hatefilled > > > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become > > ideals. in case if > > > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better > > run. > > > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in > > Baramulla. Wonder who > > > acts > > > > against humanity now ? > > > > > > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead > > concentrate on demanding > > > justice > > > > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims > > - with religion no bar. > > > > Its insane to butter politics out of this > > sensitive issue. > > > > > > > > Or else they can try their luck in any > > International Disc (Discuss) throw > > > > competition, since they won't take part in Indian > > National games :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by > > force of > > > > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. > > The mindset needs to > > > change, > > > > > for this to happen sometime in future. > > > > > > > > > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist > > violence. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata > > Sengupta < > > > shuddha at sarai.net > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Junaid, > > > > >> > > > > >> Many thanks for these details from > > Kashmir, they are, as always, > > > > >> saddening. The loss of life, and the > > fact that the CRPF have once > > > > >> again attacked unarmed protestors with > > bullets is deeply shameful, > > > > >> and that they prevented ambulances from > > reaching the injured is > > > > >> shocking. It is as if those who > > administer the occupation of Kashmir > > > > >> have no remorse for their bloody record > > and no capacity either, to > > > > >> accept the humanity of those they > > 'encounter' on the streets with > > > > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am > > ashamed every time this happens. > > > > >> > > > > >> I also appreciate and respect the > > trouble taken by you to post a > > > > >> thoughtful and critical reply to my > > postings on Iran. I have read it, > > > > >> and will do so again, carefully, and > > respond, in detail. Our > > > > >> differences on Iran will probably > > remain, but this does not mean, as > > > > >> you point out that we are incapable of > > solidarity on matters, closer > > > > >> to home, both for you and for me. > > > > >> > > > > >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and > > with the hope that someday, the > > > > >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of > > arms will end > > > > >> > > > > >> Shuddha > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Thought some of you might be > > interested in what is happening in > > > > >> > Kashmir. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest > > Killings > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Varmul On Boil > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth > > was killed and a minor sustained > > > > >> > critical injuries when paramilitary > > CRPF troopers opened fire to > > > quell > > > > >> > protesters at Varmul in north > > Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > > > > >> > complete shutdown in response to > > the strike call given by the > > > Hurriyat > > > > >> > Conference (G) against the killing > > of two youth in police firing on > > > > >> > Monday. > > > > >> > Witnesses told Greater > > Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > > > > >> > youth took to the streets at > > Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > > > > >> > procession. “Paramilitary > > troopers deployed there opened fire on the > > > > >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a > > youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > > > > >> > pierced through his chest and he > > started bleeding profusely. We > > > called > > > > >> > the hospital and asked for an > > ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > > > > >> > allow the ambulance to enter > > Khanpora and he succumbed to his > > > > >> > injuries,” they added. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > After the word about his > > death spread, hundreds of men, women and > > > > >> > children raising pro-freedom and > > anti-India slogans poured on to the > > > > >> > streets demanding withdrawal > > of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > > > > >> > three youth have been killed and > > scores injured many of them > > > > >> > critically. The CRPF should be > > withdrawn from the town,” protesters > > > > >> > said. > > > > >> > They vowed to continue the > > protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Earlier in the morning > > hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > > > > >> > Varmul town and took to the streets > > to give vent to their ire. > > > > >> > Protesters were demanding action > > against the policemen and troopers > > > > >> > who had opened fire on the > > protesters yesterday in which two youth > > > > >> > were killed. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > “As they tried to march > > ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > > > > >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke > > canisters and later fired upon the > > > > >> > protesters injuring scores of them. > > A bullet hit a minor Bilal > > > Bashir, > > > > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near > > Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > > > > >> > Srinagar for specialized > > treatment,” they said. Doctors attending > > > upon > > > > >> > Bilal termed his condition to be > > critical. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > According to the witnesses, > > an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > > > > >> > and his men along with a few > > civilians were beaten by the CRPF > > > > >> > troopers when they were shifting > > Bilal to hospital in an army > > > vehicle. > > > > >> > “As the vehicle reached the main > > chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > > > > >> > men. They dragged us and the RR > > personnel out of the vehicle and > > > beat > > > > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in > > the vehicle. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Protests also rocked several > > areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > > > > >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth > > defied the curfew. Protesters > > > > >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF > > slogans marched through the > > > streets. > > > > >> > They were demanding action against > > the erring troopers who opened > > > fire > > > > >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. > > Policemen and troopers who were > > > > >> > deployed in the strength in the > > area beat them up with batons and > > > > >> > fired tear smoke canisters to > > disperse them. However, youth > > > retaliated > > > > >> > with stones, triggering clashes > > which continued till late in the > > > > >> > evening. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > The protests also spilled to > > Bandipore district where eight persons > > > > >> > including two policemen were > > injured in the clashes between police > > > and > > > > >> > protesters. At main town, > > Bandipore, youth held protests which were > > > > >> > dealt with force by police. > > However, protesters showed resistance by > > > > >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen > > persons including two policemen were > > > > >> > injured in the clashes. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > At Sumbal, people held > > protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > > > > >> > road by burning tyres and erecting > > blockades. The protesters later > > > > >> > dispersed off peacefully. > > > > >> > In Kupwara, authorities had > > imposed curfew-like restrictions as > > > > >> > police and paramilitary troopers > > blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > > > > >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t > > allow them to move out of their > > > > >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns > > observed a complete shutdown. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > SRINAGAR > > > > >> > Life remained crippled in > > Srinagar city in response to the > > > Hurriyat’s > > > > >> > call even as protests were held at > > a few places. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and > > Nowhatta, youth staged protest > > > > >> > demonstrations against the Varmul > > killings. However, police and CRPF > > > > >> > troopers, deployed in strength, > > suppressed protests by teargas > > > > >> > shelling in which two women were > > injured. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Witnesses said a teargas > > shell hit a woman on her hand while > > > another > > > > >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > All the shops, educational > > institutions, banks and government > > > offices > > > > >> > remained closed. Barring civil > > secretariat, attendance in the > > > > >> > government offices was nil. Public > > transport remained off the roads. > > > > >> > However, in uptown areas, private > > vehicles could be seen plying > > > > >> > intermittently. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR > > > > >> > > > > > >> > In Islamabad district, > > clashes broke out between the police and > > > > >> > protestors early in the morning at > > several places including Cheeni > > > > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The > > protestors came out on the roads > > > > >> > and started raising pro-freedom and > > anti-army slogans. The Police > > > and > > > > >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to > > disperse them. Later CRPF and > > > police > > > > >> > personnel beat up several > > pedestrians and arrested several youth for > > > > >> > holding demos. Youth again > > regrouped in the afternoon and held > > > > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni > > Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF > > > bunker > > > > >> > with stones but were later chased > > away by troopers. The protests > > > > >> > continued till late evening. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in > > the entire district as shops, > > > > >> > business and offices remained > > closed. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Normal life also came to > > stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > > > > >> > district in view of the complete > > strike. Reports of shutdown were > > > also > > > > >> > received from Pulwama district. > > > > >> > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > >> > *********************** > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Custodial Disappearance > > > > >> > > > > > >> > KHALID GUL > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People > > of Larkipora in Dooru > > > demonstrated > > > > >> > for the second consecutive day on > > Tuesday against the enforced > > > > >> > custodial disappearance of a > > teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > > > > >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed > > to intensify agitation if the > > > > >> > government fails to find the boy in > > two days. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad > > Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > > > > >> > Larkipora was summoned by the > > troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > > > > >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is > > missing since. The Commanding > > > > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, > > admitted on Monday that army had > > > > >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 > > AM on Sunday. “It was just a > > > > >> > routine visit and nothing > > else. Thereafter he left from here at > > > > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > > > > >> > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads > > Action Committee formed by villagers > > > on > > > > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the > > government to tell us whereabouts of > > > > >> > Basharat in two days. After that we > > will be forced to take extreme > > > > >> > steps.” > > > > >> > “The government has passed > > instructions that army should inform > > > local > > > > >> > police before summoning or > > releasing a person. In this case, the boy > > > > >> > was called to the camp and then > > released without informing us,” said > > > a > > > > >> > top police official. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of > > Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > > > > >> > everyone because he is youngest in > > our family. We have been trying > > > to > > > > >> > convince mother that he is safe but > > she is very worried. And we are > > > > >> > concerned about her too because she > > is a cardiac patient.” > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath > > and some adjacent villages > > > demonstrated > > > > >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. > > They shouted pro-freedom and > > > > >> > anti-army slogans and blocked > > Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades > > > and > > > > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad > > Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > > > > >> > and supported the two day deadline > > set by the Action Committee. > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. > > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> > List archive: > > > > >> > > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > > > >> www.sarai.net > > > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > > >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> List archive: > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 18:59:16 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:59:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> References: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907010629w6da388f8pffacdc6d01f04bae@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam , Appreciate your mail . However please let us know it it were the security forces which raped two innocent women and finally killed them in Shopian ? I may have missed some report on the episode. Warm regards Pawan On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:56 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Mr Malik, > > The reason why you have chosen turn a blind eye to the forces occupying > Kashmir is because it becomes an easier task to say that seperatists commit > atrocities because they are bunch of hooligans up in arms against the state, > while police forces are for maintanence of law and order, so whatever they > do, it has to be under the garb of law and order. lets face it -- both > separatists followed by the security forces are only destroying Kashmir. > people are obviously opposed to violence in any form be it seperatists or > forces. however, they have more expectations from the forces as they > represent some form of protection also, which is why such protests are > there. those who protect cannot become rapists or murderers. they just > cannot. > > anupam > > On 7/1/09, A.K. Malik wrote: >> >> >> Dear Mr Kaul, >>             I will only give a brief comment.People find it easy to curse & >> protest against CRPF/Police/Govt but are either scared to protest against >> actions of terrorists or are just disinterested. >> None can understand the anguish and pain except the ones who have >> suffered.We have seen this at the time of partition. >> Regards >> (A.K.MALIK) >> >> >> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> > From: Aditya Raj Kaul >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir >> > To: "sarai list" >> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009,5:19 PM >> > Dear Anupam.. >> > >> > I'm not wondering of even an iota of humanity in a mob, >> > especially those >> > ones directed by separatist elements in Kashmir. Long ago I >> > was on the >> > receiving end, when we had to leave our homes in early >> > morning darkness in >> > 1990. We met with an exodus, due to fear of gun culture and >> > slogans from >> > mosque loud speakers against our women-folk. The situation >> > is no better now. >> > When the mentally sick mob could attack the minority >> > unarmed population >> > without a reason to justify their horrific act, I've >> > reasons to believe they >> > can blindly torch an ambulance under orders from Malik's >> > and Geelani's. >> > >> > I just recommended disc throw. There of course are several >> > other >> > opportunities with the local Kashmiri Muslim population. I >> > can give hundreds >> > of examples. Quazi Toqeer could win the Indian Idol, even >> > though he came >> > from a far off village in Kashmir. Similarly, Athaer Parvaz >> > has joined >> > another reality show on a popular entertainment channel. >> > There are travel >> > companies and shawl emporiums throughout the globe and in >> > each Indian city >> > with Kashmiris doing brisk business. They don't have any >> > anger towards the >> > system. They have adequate opportunities and are proud >> > Indians. >> > >> > I wish Omar Abdullah provides good employment opportunities >> > to these local >> > Kashmiris, so that they don't get carried away into these >> > violent separatist >> > funded protests for mere few hundred rupees. >> > >> > It is easy to take the separatist line, 'coz it has media >> > melting in >> > immediately. But, it is difficult to speak and support the >> > truth in Kashmir. >> > For obvious reasons. >> > >> > I still wonder why there have been no protests in Kashmir >> > for two ladies who >> > fell to the bullets of terrorists (Hizbul) ? One of them >> > hailed from >> > Shopian. >> > >> > I would appreciate if the Majlis of Shopian chaired by >> > Mohd. Shafi Khan, >> > takes note of it and includes it in the protests and not >> > give away this to >> > separatist pressure. >> > >> > I'm not asking this time to campaign for Kashmiri Pandit >> > rape/murder >> > victims. Not even asking to demand immediate arrest and >> > death penalty to >> > terrorist and rapist YASIN MALIK. I don't expect that to >> > happen anyways. >> > >> > Hope all in this list are aware that local Pandits of >> > Kashmir are as well >> > participating in the Shopian protests peacefully wearing >> > black bands. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: >> > >> > > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could >> > happen. it can >> > > happen >> > > only when there is no proper medical facility at a >> > given place or the >> > > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before >> > suggesting a >> > > remedial >> > > measure, that too when one has already described it as >> > a mob, one needs to >> > > find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. >> > again, this comment is not >> > > to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts >> > of utter idiocy that >> > > people resort to during the times of strife. sending >> > them to discuss throw >> > > competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very >> > easy to write a >> > > comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if >> > such remedial >> > > measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post >> > about burning >> > > ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner >> > that the angry mobs >> > > participating in such incidents can divert their >> > energies onto something >> > > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they >> > should also be >> > > provided with those opportunities where they can >> > divert their anger. >> > > unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you >> > have the right kind of >> > > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is >> > not possible with so >> > > much anger and frustration. however, with the >> > occupation of hatefilled >> > > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become >> > ideals. in case if >> > > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better >> > run. >> > > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in >> > Baramulla. Wonder who >> > > acts >> > > > against humanity now ? >> > > > >> > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead >> > concentrate on demanding >> > > justice >> > > > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims >> > - with religion no bar. >> > > > Its insane to butter politics out of this >> > sensitive issue. >> > > > >> > > > Or else they can try their luck in any >> > International Disc (Discuss) throw >> > > > competition, since they won't take part in Indian >> > National games :P >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> > > > > > >wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by >> > force of >> > > > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. >> > The mindset needs to >> > > change, >> > > > > for this to happen sometime in future. >> > > > > >> > > > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist >> > violence. >> > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata >> > Sengupta < >> > > shuddha at sarai.net >> > > > >wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > >> Dear Junaid, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Many thanks for these details from >> > Kashmir, they are, as always, >> > > > >> saddening. The loss of life, and the >> > fact that the CRPF have once >> > > > >> again attacked unarmed protestors with >> > bullets is deeply shameful, >> > > > >> and that they prevented ambulances from >> > reaching the injured is >> > > > >> shocking. It is as if those who >> > administer the occupation of Kashmir >> > > > >> have no remorse for their bloody record >> > and no capacity either, to >> > > > >> accept the humanity of those they >> > 'encounter' on the streets with >> > > > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am >> > ashamed every time this happens. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> I also appreciate and respect the >> > trouble taken by you to post a >> > > > >> thoughtful and critical reply to my >> > postings on Iran. I have read it, >> > > > >> and will do so again, carefully, and >> > respond, in detail. Our >> > > > >> differences on Iran will probably >> > remain, but this does not mean, as >> > > > >> you point out that we are incapable of >> > solidarity on matters, closer >> > > > >> to home, both for you and for me. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and >> > with the hope that someday, the >> > > > >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of >> > arms will end >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Shuddha >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > Thought some of you might be >> > interested in what is happening in >> > > > >> > Kashmir. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest >> > Killings >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Varmul On Boil >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth >> > was killed and a minor sustained >> > > > >> > critical injuries when paramilitary >> > CRPF troopers opened fire to >> > > quell >> > > > >> > protesters at Varmul in north >> > Kashmir, while the Valley observed a >> > > > >> > complete shutdown in response to >> > the strike call given by the >> > > Hurriyat >> > > > >> > Conference (G) against the killing >> > of two youth in police firing on >> > > > >> > Monday. >> > > > >> >  Witnesses told Greater >> > Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of >> > > > >> > youth took to the streets at >> > Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a >> > > > >> > procession. “Paramilitary >> > troopers deployed there opened fire on the >> > > > >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a >> > youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet >> > > > >> > pierced through his chest and he >> > started bleeding profusely. We >> > > called >> > > > >> > the hospital and asked for an >> > ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t >> > > > >> > allow the ambulance to enter >> > Khanpora and he succumbed to his >> > > > >> > injuries,” they added. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  After the word about his >> > death spread, hundreds of men, women and >> > > > >> > children raising pro-freedom and >> > anti-India slogans poured on to the >> > > > >> > streets demanding withdrawal >> > of  CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, >> > > > >> > three youth have been killed and >> > scores injured many of them >> > > > >> > critically. The CRPF should be >> > withdrawn from the town,” protesters >> > > > >> > said. >> > > > >> >  They vowed to continue the >> > protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  Earlier in the morning >> > hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the >> > > > >> > Varmul town and took to the streets >> > to give vent to their ire. >> > > > >> > Protesters were demanding action >> > against the policemen and troopers >> > > > >> > who had opened fire on the >> > protesters yesterday in which two youth >> > > > >> > were killed. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  “As they tried to march >> > ahead, police and CRPF men used force to >> > > > >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke >> > canisters and later fired upon the >> > > > >> > protesters injuring scores of them. >> > A bullet hit a minor Bilal >> > > Bashir, >> > > > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near >> > Cement Bridge. He was shifted to >> > > > >> > Srinagar for specialized >> > treatment,” they said. Doctors attending >> > > upon >> > > > >> > Bilal termed his condition to be >> > critical. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  According to the witnesses, >> > an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles >> > > > >> > and his men along with a few >> > civilians were beaten by the CRPF >> > > > >> > troopers when they were shifting >> > Bilal to hospital in an army >> > > vehicle. >> > > > >> > “As the vehicle reached the main >> > chowk we were stopped by the CRPF >> > > > >> > men. They dragged us and the RR >> > personnel out of the vehicle and >> > > beat >> > > > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in >> > the vehicle. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  Protests also rocked several >> > areas of Sopur including Badambagh, >> > > > >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth >> > defied the curfew. Protesters >> > > > >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF >> > slogans marched through the >> > > streets. >> > > > >> > They were demanding action against >> > the erring troopers who opened >> > > fire >> > > > >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. >> > Policemen and troopers who were >> > > > >> > deployed in the strength in the >> > area beat them up with batons and >> > > > >> > fired tear smoke canisters to >> > disperse them. However, youth >> > > retaliated >> > > > >> > with stones, triggering clashes >> > which continued till late in the >> > > > >> > evening. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  The protests also spilled to >> > Bandipore district where eight persons >> > > > >> > including two policemen were >> > injured in the clashes between police >> > > and >> > > > >> > protesters.  At main town, >> > Bandipore, youth held protests which were >> > > > >> > dealt with force by police. >> > However, protesters showed resistance by >> > > > >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen >> > persons including two policemen were >> > > > >> > injured in the clashes. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  At Sumbal, people held >> > protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore >> > > > >> > road by burning tyres and erecting >> > blockades. The protesters later >> > > > >> > dispersed off peacefully. >> > > > >> >  In Kupwara, authorities had >> > imposed curfew-like restrictions as >> > > > >> > police and paramilitary troopers >> > blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. >> > > > >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t >> > allow them to move out of their >> > > > >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns >> > observed a complete shutdown. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > SRINAGAR >> > > > >> >  Life remained crippled in >> > Srinagar city in response to the >> > > Hurriyat’s >> > > > >> > call even as protests were held at >> > a few places. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and >> > Nowhatta, youth staged protest >> > > > >> > demonstrations against the Varmul >> > killings. However, police and CRPF >> > > > >> > troopers, deployed in strength, >> > suppressed protests by teargas >> > > > >> > shelling in which two women were >> > injured. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  Witnesses said a teargas >> > shell hit a woman on her hand while >> > > another >> > > > >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  All the shops, educational >> > institutions, banks and government >> > > offices >> > > > >> > remained closed. Barring civil >> > secretariat, attendance in the >> > > > >> > government offices was nil. Public >> > transport remained off the roads. >> > > > >> > However, in uptown areas, private >> > vehicles could be seen plying >> > > > >> > intermittently. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  In Islamabad district, >> > clashes broke out between the police and >> > > > >> > protestors early in the morning at >> > several places including Cheeni >> > > > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The >> > protestors came out on the roads >> > > > >> > and started raising pro-freedom and >> > anti-army slogans.  The Police >> > > and >> > > > >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to >> > disperse them. Later CRPF and >> > > police >> > > > >> > personnel beat up several >> > pedestrians and arrested several youth for >> > > > >> > holding demos. Youth again >> > regrouped in the afternoon and held >> > > > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni >> > Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF >> > > bunker >> > > > >> > with stones but were later chased >> > away by troopers. The protests >> > > > >> > continued till late evening. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in >> > the entire district as shops, >> > > > >> > business and offices remained >> > closed. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  Normal life also came to >> > stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam >> > > > >> > district in view of the complete >> > strike. Reports of shutdown were >> > > also >> > > > >> > received from Pulwama district. >> > > > >> > >> > > >> > ********************************************************************** >> > > > >> > *********************** >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Custodial Disappearance >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > KHALID GUL >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People >> > of Larkipora in Dooru >> > > demonstrated >> > > > >> > for the second consecutive day on >> > Tuesday against the enforced >> > > > >> > custodial disappearance of a >> > teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya >> > > > >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed >> > to intensify agitation if the >> > > > >> > government fails to find the boy in >> > two days. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad >> > Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, >> > > > >> > Larkipora was summoned by the >> > troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their >> > > > >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is >> > missing since. The Commanding >> > > > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, >> > admitted on Monday that army had >> > > > >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 >> > AM on Sunday. “It was just a >> > > > >> > routine visit and nothing >> > else.  Thereafter he left from here at >> > > > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. >> > > > >> >  Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads >> > Action Committee formed by villagers >> > > on >> > > > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the >> > government to tell us whereabouts of >> > > > >> > Basharat in two days. After that we >> > will be forced to take extreme >> > > > >> > steps.” >> > > > >> >  “The government has passed >> > instructions that army should inform >> > > local >> > > > >> > police before summoning or >> > releasing a person. In this case, the boy >> > > > >> > was called to the camp and then >> > released without informing us,” said >> > > a >> > > > >> > top police official. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of >> > Basharat, said, “He is very dear to >> > > > >> > everyone because he is youngest in >> > our family. We have been trying >> > > to >> > > > >> > convince mother that he is safe but >> > she is very worried. And we are >> > > > >> > concerned about her too because she >> > is a cardiac patient.” >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >  Meanwhile, people of Chakpath >> > and some adjacent villages >> > > demonstrated >> > > > >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. >> > They shouted pro-freedom and >> > > > >> > anti-army slogans and blocked >> > Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades >> > > and >> > > > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad >> > Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters >> > > > >> > and supported the two day deadline >> > set by the Action Committee. >> > > > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion >> > list on media and the city. >> > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > >> > List archive: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> > > > >> Raqs Media Collective >> > > > >> shuddha at sarai.net >> > > > >> www.sarai.net >> > > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on >> > media and the city. >> > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > >> List archive: >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > > > > >> > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >> > > > > Cell -  +91-9873297834 >> > > > > >> > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> > the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >> > Cell -  +91-9873297834 >> > >> > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 19:02:32 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 06:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir Message-ID: <205590.57763.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Sengupta, If the report is correct, CRPF seems to have gone insane. However, sometimes the media reporting is biased as it starts with some miscreants in the mob doing some mischief.To my mind it is difficult to accept truthfulness of the incident because I can't comprehend that CRPF personnel would do such silly things when they know they are already under attack and can lose jobs. If it is really true, then we are doomed with such activity from people who are supposed to protect us. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir > To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 4:48 PM > Aditya, > > If this news is correct. Then it is indeed regrettable and > deeply  > shameful. Ambulances and medical facilities are not > supposed to be  > attacked, or prevented from doing their duties, even in > times of war.  > And whosoever has attacked them, wherever they may have > attacked  > them, regardless of whether or not they are separatists, > unaffiliated  > mobs, or the forces of law and order, in any situation, are > worthy  > only of condemnation. If this is the work of 'pro-Azaadi' > elements  > (as you suggest it is), then they have totally degraded > their cause  > by this act. > > Shuddha > > > > On 01-Jul-09, at 4:26 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in > Baramulla. Wonder  > > who acts > > against humanity now ? > > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead concentrate > on demanding  > > justice > > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims - > with religion  > > no bar. > > Its insane to butter politics out of this sensitive > issue. > > > > Or else they can try their luck in any International > Disc (Discuss)  > > throw > > competition, since they won't take part in Indian > National games :P > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul  > > > wrote: > > > >> I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by force of > >> terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. The > mindset needs to  > >> change, > >> for this to happen sometime in future. > >> > >> In solidarity with the victims of separatist > violence. > >> > >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata > Sengupta  > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Junaid, > >>> > >>> Many thanks for these details from Kashmir, > they are, as always, > >>> saddening. The loss of life, and the fact that > the CRPF have once > >>> again attacked unarmed protestors with bullets > is deeply shameful, > >>> and that they prevented ambulances from > reaching the injured is > >>> shocking. It is as if those who administer the > occupation of Kashmir > >>> have no remorse for their bloody record and no > capacity either, to > >>> accept the humanity of those they 'encounter' > on the streets with > >>> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am ashamed > every time this happens. > >>> > >>> I also appreciate and respect the trouble > taken by you to post a > >>> thoughtful and critical reply to my postings > on Iran. I have read  > >>> it, > >>> and will do so again, carefully, and respond, > in detail. Our > >>> differences on Iran will probably remain, but > this does not mean, as > >>> you point out that we are incapable of > solidarity on matters, closer > >>> to home, both for you and for me. > >>> > >>> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and with the > hope that someday, the > >>> occupation of Kashmir by the force of arms > will end > >>> > >>> Shuddha > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thought some of you might be interested in > what is happening in > >>>> Kashmir. > >>>> > >>>> Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest Killings > >>>> > >>>>  ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > >>>> > >>>> Varmul On Boil > >>>> > >>>> Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth was > killed and a minor sustained > >>>> critical injuries when paramilitary CRPF > troopers opened fire to  > >>>> quell > >>>> protesters at Varmul in north Kashmir, > while the Valley observed a > >>>> complete shutdown in response to the > strike call given by the  > >>>> Hurriyat > >>>> Conference (G) against the killing of two > youth in police firing on > >>>> Monday. > >>>>  Witnesses told Greater Kashmir that > late this evening hundreds of > >>>> youth took to the streets at Khanpora, > Varmul and tried taking  > >>>> out a > >>>> procession. “Paramilitary troopers > deployed there opened fire on  > >>>> the > >>>> peaceful demonstrators injuring a youth > Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > >>>> pierced through his chest and he started > bleeding profusely. We  > >>>> called > >>>> the hospital and asked for an ambulance. > But CRPF troopers didn’t > >>>> allow the ambulance to enter Khanpora and > he succumbed to his > >>>> injuries,” they added. > >>>> > >>>>  After the word about his death > spread, hundreds of men, women and > >>>> children raising pro-freedom and > anti-India slogans poured on to  > >>>> the > >>>> streets demanding withdrawal of  CRPF > from the town. “Within 2- > >>>> days, > >>>> three youth have been killed and scores > injured many of them > >>>> critically. The CRPF should be withdrawn > from the town,” protesters > >>>> said. > >>>>  They vowed to continue the protests > till the CRPF was withdrawn. > >>>> > >>>>  Earlier in the morning hundreds of > youth defied the curfew in the > >>>> Varmul town and took to the streets to > give vent to their ire. > >>>> Protesters were demanding action against > the policemen and troopers > >>>> who had opened fire on the protesters > yesterday in which two youth > >>>> were killed. > >>>> > >>>>  “As they tried to march ahead, > police and CRPF men used force to > >>>> quell them. They burst tear smoke > canisters and later fired upon  > >>>> the > >>>> protesters injuring scores of them. A > bullet hit a minor Bilal  > >>>> Bashir, > >>>> 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near Cement > Bridge. He was shifted to > >>>> Srinagar for specialized treatment,” > they said. Doctors  > >>>> attending upon > >>>> Bilal termed his condition to be > critical. > >>>> > >>>>  According to the witnesses, an > official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > >>>> and his men along with a few civilians > were beaten by the CRPF > >>>> troopers when they were shifting Bilal to > hospital in an army  > >>>> vehicle. > >>>> “As the vehicle reached the main chowk > we were stopped by the CRPF > >>>> men. They dragged us and the RR personnel > out of the vehicle and  > >>>> beat > >>>> us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in the > vehicle. > >>>> > >>>> PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > >>>> > >>>>  Protests also rocked several areas > of Sopur including Badambagh, > >>>> Batapora and Chankhan where youth defied > the curfew. Protesters > >>>> raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF slogans > marched through the  > >>>> streets. > >>>> They were demanding action against the > erring troopers who  > >>>> opened fire > >>>> on the peaceful demonstrators. Policemen > and troopers who were > >>>> deployed in the strength in the area beat > them up with batons and > >>>> fired tear smoke canisters to disperse > them. However, youth  > >>>> retaliated > >>>> with stones, triggering clashes which > continued till late in the > >>>> evening. > >>>> > >>>>  The protests also spilled to > Bandipore district where eight  > >>>> persons > >>>> including two policemen were injured in > the clashes between  > >>>> police and > >>>> protesters.  At main town, Bandipore, > youth held protests which  > >>>> were > >>>> dealt with force by police. However, > protesters showed  > >>>> resistance by > >>>> hurling stones. Half a dozen persons > including two policemen were > >>>> injured in the clashes. > >>>> > >>>>  At Sumbal, people held protests and > blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > >>>> road by burning tyres and erecting > blockades. The protesters later > >>>> dispersed off peacefully. > >>>>  In Kupwara, authorities had imposed > curfew-like restrictions as > >>>> police and paramilitary troopers blocked > the Sopur-Kupwara road. > >>>> Locals said the policemen didn’t allow > them to move out of their > >>>> homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns observed > a complete shutdown. > >>>> > >>>> SRINAGAR > >>>>  Life remained crippled in Srinagar > city in response to the  > >>>> Hurriyat’s > >>>> call even as protests were held at a few > places. > >>>> > >>>>  At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and Nowhatta, > youth staged protest > >>>> demonstrations against the Varmul > killings. However, police and  > >>>> CRPF > >>>> troopers, deployed in strength, suppressed > protests by teargas > >>>> shelling in which two women were injured. > >>>> > >>>>  Witnesses said a teargas shell hit a > woman on her hand while  > >>>> another > >>>> was run over near Gaw Kadal. > >>>> > >>>>  All the shops, educational > institutions, banks and government  > >>>> offices > >>>> remained closed. Barring civil > secretariat, attendance in the > >>>> government offices was nil. Public > transport remained off the  > >>>> roads. > >>>> However, in uptown areas, private vehicles > could be seen plying > >>>> intermittently. > >>>> > >>>> SOUTH KASHMIR > >>>> > >>>>  In Islamabad district, clashes broke > out between the police and > >>>> protestors early in the morning at several > places including Cheeni > >>>> Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The > protestors came out on the  > >>>> roads > >>>> and started raising pro-freedom and > anti-army slogans.  The  > >>>> Police and > >>>> CRPF resorted to baton charge to disperse > them. Later CRPF and  > >>>> police > >>>> personnel beat up several pedestrians and > arrested several youth  > >>>> for > >>>> holding demos. Youth again regrouped in > the afternoon and held > >>>> protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni Chowk, > youth attacked a CRPF  > >>>> bunker > >>>> with stones but were later chased away by > troopers. The protests > >>>> continued till late evening. > >>>> > >>>> A complete shutdown was observed in the > entire district as shops, > >>>> business and offices remained closed. > >>>> > >>>>  Normal life also came to stand still > in the neighbouring Kulgam > >>>> district in view of the complete strike. > Reports of shutdown  > >>>> were also > >>>> received from Pulwama district. > >>>> > ******************************************************************* > > >>>> *** > >>>> *********************** > >>>> > >>>> Custodial Disappearance > >>>> > >>>> KHALID GUL > >>>> > >>>> Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People of > Larkipora in Dooru  > >>>> demonstrated > >>>> for the second consecutive day on Tuesday > against the enforced > >>>> custodial disappearance of a teenager by > the troops of 36 Rashtriya > >>>> Rifles battalion of army, and vowed to > intensify agitation if the > >>>> government fails to find the boy in two > days. > >>>> > >>>> Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad > Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > >>>> Larkipora was summoned by the troops of 36 > Rashtriya Rifles to  > >>>> their > >>>> camp on Sunday morning, but he is missing > since. The Commanding > >>>> Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, > admitted on Monday that army  > >>>> had > >>>> called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 AM on > Sunday. “It was just a > >>>> routine visit and nothing else.  > Thereafter he left from here at > >>>> around 1:00 PM,” he said. > >>>>  Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads Action > Committee formed by  > >>>> villagers on > >>>> Tuesday, said, “We ask the government to > tell us whereabouts of > >>>> Basharat in two days. After that we will > be forced to take extreme > >>>> steps.” > >>>>  “The government has passed > instructions that army should inform  > >>>> local > >>>> police before summoning or releasing a > person. In this case, the  > >>>> boy > >>>> was called to the camp and then released > without informing us,”  > >>>> said a > >>>> top police official. > >>>> > >>>> Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of Basharat, > said, “He is very dear to > >>>> everyone because he is youngest in our > family. We have been  > >>>> trying to > >>>> convince mother that he is safe but she is > very worried. And we are > >>>> concerned about her too because she is a > cardiac patient.” > >>>> > >>>>  Meanwhile, people of Chakpath and > some adjacent villages  > >>>> demonstrated > >>>> against Basharat’s disappearance. They > shouted pro-freedom and > >>>> anti-army slogans and blocked > Veerinag-Dooru road with  > >>>> barricades and > >>>> burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad Qazi > Yasir addressed the  > >>>> protesters > >>>> and supported the two day deadline set by > the Action Committee. > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >>> Raqs Media Collective > >>> shuddha at sarai.net > >>> www.sarai.net > >>> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > >> Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > >> Cell -  +91-9873297834 > >> > >> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with  > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 1 19:05:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:35:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Will the cat above the precipice fall down? Message-ID: <65be9bf40907010635v39f03237pda5a3490ec8a6d1a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thecommentfactory.com/will-the-cat-above-the-precipice-fall-down-slavoj-zizek-on-iran-2259 Will the cat above the precipice fall down?: Slavoj Zizek on Iran When an authoritarian regime approaches its final crisis, its dissolution as a rule follows two steps. Before its actual collapse, a mysterious rupture takes place: all of a sudden people know that the game is over, they are simply no longer afraid. It is not only that the regime loses its legitimacy, its exercise of power itself is perceived as an impotent panic reaction. We all know the classic scene from cartoons: the cat reaches a precipice, but it goes on walking, ignoring the fact that there is no ground under its feet; it starts to fall only when it looks down and notices the abyss. When it loses its authority, the regime is like a cat above the precipice: in order to fall, it only has to be reminded to look down… In Shah of Shahs, a classic account of the Khomeini revolution, Ryszard Kapuscinski located the precise moment of this rupture: at a Tehran crossroad, a single demonstrator refused to budge when a policeman shouted at him to move, and the embarrassed policeman simply withdrew; in a couple of hours, all Tehran knew about this incident, and although there were street fights going on for weeks, everyone somehow knew the game is over. Is something similar going on now? There are many versions of the events in Tehran. Some see in the protests the culmination of the pro-Western “reform movement” along the lines of the “orange” revolutions in Ukraine, Georgia, etc. – a secular reaction to the Khomeini revolution. They support the protests as the first step towards a new liberal-democratic secular Iran freed of Muslim fundamentalism. They are counteracted by skeptics who think that Ahmadinejad really won: he is the voice of the majority, while the support of Mousavi comes from the middle classes and their gilded youth. In short: let’s drop the illusions and face the fact that, in Ahmadinejad, Iran has a president it deserves. Then there are those who dismiss Mousavi as a member of the cleric establishment with merely cosmetic differences from Ahmadinejad: Mousavi also wants to continue the atomic energy program, he is against recognizing Israel, plus he enjoyed the full support of Khomeini as a prime minister in the years of the war with Iraq. Finally, the saddest of them all are the Leftist supporters of Ahmadinejad: what is really at stake for them is Iranian independence. Ahmadinejad won because he stood up for the country’s independence, exposed elite corruption and used oil wealth to boost the incomes of the poor majority – this is, so we are told, the true Ahmadinejad beneath the Western-media image of a holocaust-denying fanatic. According to this view, what is effectively going on now in Iran is a repetition of the 1953 overthrow of Mossadegh – a West-financed coup against the legitimate president. This view not only ignores facts: the high electoral participation – up from the usual 55% to 85% - can only be explained as a protest vote. It also displays its blindness for a genuine demonstration of popular will, patronizingly assuming that, for the backward Iranians, Ahmadinejad is good enough - they are not yet sufficiently mature to be ruled by a secular Left. Opposed as they are, all these versions read the Iranian protests along the axis of Islamic hardliners versus pro-Western liberal reformists, which is why they find it so difficult to locate Mousavi: is he a Western-backed reformer who wants more personal freedom and market economy, or a member of the cleric establishment whose eventual victory would not affect in any serious way the nature of the regime? Such extreme oscillations demonstrate that they all miss the true nature of the protests. The green color adopted by the Mousavi supporters, the cries of “Allah akbar!” that resonate from the roofs of Tehran in the evening darkness, clearly indicate that they see their activity as the repetition of the 1979 Khomeini revolution, as the return to its roots, the undoing of the revolution’s later corruption. This return to the roots is not only programmatic; it concerns even more the mode of activity of the crowds: the emphatic unity of the people, their all-encompassing solidarity, creative self-organization, improvising of the ways to articulate protest, the unique mixture of spontaneity and discipline, like the ominous march of thousands in complete silence. We are dealing with a genuine popular uprising of the deceived partisans of the Khomeini revolution. There are a couple of crucial consequences to be drawn from this insight. First, Ahmadinejad is not the hero of the Islamist poor, but a genuine corrupted Islamo-Fascist populist, a kind of Iranian Berlusconi whose mixture of clownish posturing and ruthless power politics is causing unease even among the majority of ayatollahs. His demagogic distributing of crumbs to the poor should not deceive us: behind him are not only organs of police repression and a very Westernized PR apparatus, but also a strong new rich class, the result of the regime’s corruption (Iran’s Revolutionary Guard is not a working class militia, but a mega-corporation, the strongest center of wealth in the country). Second, one should draw a clear difference between the two main candidates opposed to Ahmadinejad, Mehdi Karroubi and Mousavi. Karroubi effectively is a reformist, basically proposing the Iranian version of identity politics, promising favors to all particular groups. Mousavi is something entirely different: his name stands for the genuine resuscitation of the popular dream which sustained the Khomeini revolution. Even if this dream was a utopia, one should recognize in it the genuine utopia of the revolution itself. What this means is that the 1979 Khomeini revolution cannot be reduced to a hard line Islamist takeover – it was much more. Now is the time to remember the incredible effervescence of the first year after the revolution, with the breath-taking explosion of political and social creativity, organizational experiments and debates among students and ordinary people. The very fact that this explosion had to be stifled demonstrates that the Khomeini revolution was an authentic political event, a momentary opening that unleashed unheard-of forces of social transformation, a moment in which “everything seemed possible.” What followed was a gradual closing through the take-over of political control by the Islam establishment. To put it in Freudian terms, today’s protest movement is the “return of the repressed” of the Khomeini revolution. And, last but not least, what this means is that there is a genuine liberating potential in Islam – to find a “good” Islam, one doesn’t have to go back to the 10th century, we have it right here, in front of our eyes. The future is uncertain – in all probability, those in power will contain the popular explosion, and the cat will not fall into the precipice, but regain ground. However, it will no longer be the same regime, but just one corrupted authoritarian rule among others. Whatever the outcome, it is vitally important to keep in mind that we are witnessing a great emancipatory event which doesn’t fit the frame of the struggle between pro-Western liberals and anti-Western fundamentalists. If our cynical pragmatism will make us lose the capacity to recognize this emancipatory dimension, then we in the West are effectively entering a post-democratic era, getting ready for our own Ahmadinejads. Italians already know his name: Berlusconi. Others are waiting in line. From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 19:21:09 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 06:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir Message-ID: <221826.74873.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Deagards,r Mr Anupam, You may be right. I remember some years back someone from Bhind area in MP told me that for them they undergo two levels of dacoity-one when the real dacoits come to the village and loot them at gunpoint and two when the Police come for investigations-they take away whatever is left with them. But somehow my mind doesn't accept that Security forces would just fire at innocent people and stop ambulances going to hospitals without any provocation from the mob.When I accept it to be true, my mind gives way and unable to comprehend how can it happen in my country? Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 7/1/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 6:56 PM > Dear Mr Malik, > > The reason why you have chosen turn a blind eye to the > forces occupying > Kashmir is because it becomes an easier task to say that > seperatists commit > atrocities because they are bunch of hooligans up in arms > against the state, > while police forces are for maintanence of law and order, > so whatever they > do, it has to be under the garb of law and order. lets face > it -- both > separatists followed by the security forces are only > destroying Kashmir. > people are obviously opposed to violence in any form be it > seperatists or > forces. however, they have more expectations from the > forces as they > represent some form of protection also, which is why such > protests are > there. those who protect cannot become rapists or > murderers. they just > cannot. > > anupam > > On 7/1/09, A.K. Malik > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > >             I > will only give a brief comment.People find it easy to curse > & > > protest against CRPF/Police/Govt but are either scared > to protest against > > actions of terrorists or are just disinterested. > > None can understand the anguish and pain except the > ones who have > > suffered.We have seen this at the time of partition. > > Regards > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in > Kashmir > > > To: "sarai list" > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009,5:19 PM > > > Dear Anupam.. > > > > > > I'm not wondering of even an iota of humanity in > a mob, > > > especially those > > > ones directed by separatist elements in Kashmir. > Long ago I > > > was on the > > > receiving end, when we had to leave our homes in > early > > > morning darkness in > > > 1990. We met with an exodus, due to fear of gun > culture and > > > slogans from > > > mosque loud speakers against our women-folk. The > situation > > > is no better now. > > > When the mentally sick mob could attack the > minority > > > unarmed population > > > without a reason to justify their horrific act, > I've > > > reasons to believe they > > > can blindly torch an ambulance under orders from > Malik's > > > and Geelani's. > > > > > > I just recommended disc throw. There of course > are several > > > other > > > opportunities with the local Kashmiri Muslim > population. I > > > can give hundreds > > > of examples. Quazi Toqeer could win the Indian > Idol, even > > > though he came > > > from a far off village in Kashmir. Similarly, > Athaer Parvaz > > > has joined > > > another reality show on a popular entertainment > channel. > > > There are travel > > > companies and shawl emporiums throughout the > globe and in > > > each Indian city > > > with Kashmiris doing brisk business. They don't > have any > > > anger towards the > > > system. They have adequate opportunities and are > proud > > > Indians. > > > > > > I wish Omar Abdullah provides good employment > opportunities > > > to these local > > > Kashmiris, so that they don't get carried away > into these > > > violent separatist > > > funded protests for mere few hundred rupees. > > > > > > It is easy to take the separatist line, 'coz it > has media > > > melting in > > > immediately. But, it is difficult to speak and > support the > > > truth in Kashmir. > > > For obvious reasons. > > > > > > I still wonder why there have been no protests in > Kashmir > > > for two ladies who > > > fell to the bullets of terrorists (Hizbul) ? One > of them > > > hailed from > > > Shopian. > > > > > > I would appreciate if the Majlis of Shopian > chaired by > > > Mohd. Shafi Khan, > > > takes note of it and includes it in the protests > and not > > > give away this to > > > separatist pressure. > > > > > > I'm not asking this time to campaign for Kashmiri > Pandit > > > rape/murder > > > victims. Not even asking to demand immediate > arrest and > > > death penalty to > > > terrorist and rapist YASIN MALIK. I don't expect > that to > > > happen anyways. > > > > > > Hope all in this list are aware that local > Pandits of > > > Kashmir are as well > > > participating in the Shopian protests peacefully > wearing > > > black bands. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam > chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > > > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing > that could > > > happen. it can > > > > happen > > > > only when there is no proper medical > facility at a > > > given place or the > > > > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is > important before > > > suggesting a > > > > remedial > > > > measure, that too when one has already > described it as > > > a mob, one needs to > > > > find the reason why a mob would do such a > thing. > > > again, this comment is not > > > > to justify the act, this is to put an end to > such acts > > > of utter idiocy that > > > > people resort to during the times of strife. > sending > > > them to discuss throw > > > > competition is easier for anyone to say, as > it is very > > > easy to write a > > > > comment (mine or yours) but it would be > appreciated if > > > such remedial > > > > measures are not suggested. moreover, in > case the post > > > about burning > > > > ambulance suggests even in a light and > jestful manner > > > that the angry mobs > > > > participating in such incidents can divert > their > > > energies onto something > > > > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i > guess they > > > should also be > > > > provided with those opportunities where they > can > > > divert their anger. > > > > unfortunately, for sports can only happen > when you > > > have the right kind of > > > > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- > which is > > > not possible with so > > > > much anger and frustration. however, with > the > > > occupation of hatefilled > > > > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere > needs become > > > ideals. in case if > > > > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, > you better > > > run. > > > > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an > ambulance in > > > Baramulla. Wonder who > > > > acts > > > > > against humanity now ? > > > > > > > > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers > instead > > > concentrate on demanding > > > > justice > > > > > for the victims of shopian and other > rape victims > > > - with religion no bar. > > > > > Its insane to butter politics out of > this > > > sensitive issue. > > > > > > > > > > Or else they can try their luck in any > > > International Disc (Discuss) throw > > > > > competition, since they won't take part > in Indian > > > National games :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya > Raj Kaul > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of > Kashmir by > > > force of > > > > > > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. > > > The mindset needs to > > > > change, > > > > > > for this to happen sometime in > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > In solidarity with the victims of > separatist > > > violence. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, > Shuddhabrata > > > Sengupta < > > > > shuddha at sarai.net > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Junaid, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Many thanks for these details > from > > > Kashmir, they are, as always, > > > > > >> saddening. The loss of life, > and the > > > fact that the CRPF have once > > > > > >> again attacked unarmed > protestors with > > > bullets is deeply shameful, > > > > > >> and that they prevented > ambulances from > > > reaching the injured is > > > > > >> shocking. It is as if those > who > > > administer the occupation of Kashmir > > > > > >> have no remorse for their > bloody record > > > and no capacity either, to > > > > > >> accept the humanity of those > they > > > 'encounter' on the streets with > > > > > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, > I am > > > ashamed every time this happens. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I also appreciate and respect > the > > > trouble taken by you to post a > > > > > >> thoughtful and critical reply > to my > > > postings on Iran. I have read it, > > > > > >> and will do so again, > carefully, and > > > respond, in detail. Our > > > > > >> differences on Iran will > probably > > > remain, but this does not mean, as > > > > > >> you point out that we are > incapable of > > > solidarity on matters, closer > > > > > >> to home, both for you and for > me. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Warm regards, and in > solidarity, and > > > with the hope that someday, the > > > > > >> occupation of Kashmir by the > force of > > > arms will end > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Shuddha > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, > Junaid wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thought some of you might > be > > > interested in what is happening in > > > > > >> > Kashmir. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To > Protest > > > Killings > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR > BHAT > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Varmul On Boil > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: > A youth > > > was killed and a minor sustained > > > > > >> > critical injuries when > paramilitary > > > CRPF troopers opened fire to > > > > quell > > > > > >> > protesters at Varmul in > north > > > Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > > > > > >> > complete shutdown in > response to > > > the strike call given by the > > > > Hurriyat > > > > > >> > Conference (G) against > the killing > > > of two youth in police firing on > > > > > >> > Monday. > > > > > >> >  Witnesses told > Greater > > > Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > > > > > >> > youth took to the streets > at > > > Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > > > > > >> > procession. > “Paramilitary > > > troopers deployed there opened fire on the > > > > > >> > peaceful demonstrators > injuring a > > > youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > > > > > >> > pierced through his chest > and he > > > started bleeding profusely. We > > > > called > > > > > >> > the hospital and asked > for an > > > ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > > > > > >> > allow the ambulance to > enter > > > Khanpora and he succumbed to his > > > > > >> > injuries,” they added. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  After the word > about his > > > death spread, hundreds of men, women and > > > > > >> > children raising > pro-freedom and > > > anti-India slogans poured on to the > > > > > >> > streets demanding > withdrawal > > > of  CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > > > > > >> > three youth have been > killed and > > > scores injured many of them > > > > > >> > critically. The CRPF > should be > > > withdrawn from the town,” protesters > > > > > >> > said. > > > > > >> >  They vowed to > continue the > > > protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  Earlier in the > morning > > > hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > > > > > >> > Varmul town and took to > the streets > > > to give vent to their ire. > > > > > >> > Protesters were demanding > action > > > against the policemen and troopers > > > > > >> > who had opened fire on > the > > > protesters yesterday in which two youth > > > > > >> > were killed. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  “As they tried to > march > > > ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > > > > > >> > quell them. They burst > tear smoke > > > canisters and later fired upon the > > > > > >> > protesters injuring > scores of them. > > > A bullet hit a minor Bilal > > > > Bashir, > > > > > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad > Bhat near > > > Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > > > > > >> > Srinagar for specialized > > > treatment,” they said. Doctors attending > > > > upon > > > > > >> > Bilal termed his > condition to be > > > critical. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  According to the > witnesses, > > > an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > > > > > >> > and his men along with a > few > > > civilians were beaten by the CRPF > > > > > >> > troopers when they were > shifting > > > Bilal to hospital in an army > > > > vehicle. > > > > > >> > “As the vehicle reached > the main > > > chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > > > > > >> > men. They dragged us and > the RR > > > personnel out of the vehicle and > > > > beat > > > > > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad > who was in > > > the vehicle. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, > BANDIPORE > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  Protests also > rocked several > > > areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > > > > > >> > Batapora and Chankhan > where youth > > > defied the curfew. Protesters > > > > > >> > raising pro-freedom and > anti-CRPF > > > slogans marched through the > > > > streets. > > > > > >> > They were demanding > action against > > > the erring troopers who opened > > > > fire > > > > > >> > on the peaceful > demonstrators. > > > Policemen and troopers who were > > > > > >> > deployed in the strength > in the > > > area beat them up with batons and > > > > > >> > fired tear smoke > canisters to > > > disperse them. However, youth > > > > retaliated > > > > > >> > with stones, triggering > clashes > > > which continued till late in the > > > > > >> > evening. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  The protests also > spilled to > > > Bandipore district where eight persons > > > > > >> > including two policemen > were > > > injured in the clashes between police > > > > and > > > > > >> > protesters.  At main > town, > > > Bandipore, youth held protests which were > > > > > >> > dealt with force by > police. > > > However, protesters showed resistance by > > > > > >> > hurling stones. Half a > dozen > > > persons including two policemen were > > > > > >> > injured in the clashes. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  At Sumbal, people > held > > > protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > > > > > >> > road by burning tyres and > erecting > > > blockades. The protesters later > > > > > >> > dispersed off > peacefully. > > > > > >> >  In Kupwara, > authorities had > > > imposed curfew-like restrictions as > > > > > >> > police and paramilitary > troopers > > > blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > > > > > >> > Locals said the policemen > didn’t > > > allow them to move out of their > > > > > >> > homes. Kupwara and > Handwara towns > > > observed a complete shutdown. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > SRINAGAR > > > > > >> >  Life remained > crippled in > > > Srinagar city in response to the > > > > Hurriyat’s > > > > > >> > call even as protests > were held at > > > a few places. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  At Maisuma, Gaw > kadal and > > > Nowhatta, youth staged protest > > > > > >> > demonstrations against > the Varmul > > > killings. However, police and CRPF > > > > > >> > troopers, deployed in > strength, > > > suppressed protests by teargas > > > > > >> > shelling in which two > women were > > > injured. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  Witnesses said a > teargas > > > shell hit a woman on her hand while > > > > another > > > > > >> > was run over near Gaw > Kadal. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  All the shops, > educational > > > institutions, banks and government > > > > offices > > > > > >> > remained closed. Barring > civil > > > secretariat, attendance in the > > > > > >> > government offices was > nil. Public > > > transport remained off the roads. > > > > > >> > However, in uptown areas, > private > > > vehicles could be seen plying > > > > > >> > intermittently. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  In Islamabad > district, > > > clashes broke out between the police and > > > > > >> > protestors early in the > morning at > > > several places including Cheeni > > > > > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag > localities. The > > > protestors came out on the roads > > > > > >> > and started raising > pro-freedom and > > > anti-army slogans.  The Police > > > > and > > > > > >> > CRPF resorted to baton > charge to > > > disperse them. Later CRPF and > > > > police > > > > > >> > personnel beat up > several > > > pedestrians and arrested several youth for > > > > > >> > holding demos. Youth > again > > > regrouped in the afternoon and held > > > > > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. > At Cheeni > > > Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF > > > > bunker > > > > > >> > with stones but were > later chased > > > away by troopers. The protests > > > > > >> > continued till late > evening. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > A complete shutdown was > observed in > > > the entire district as shops, > > > > > >> > business and offices > remained > > > closed. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  Normal life also > came to > > > stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > > > > > >> > district in view of the > complete > > > strike. Reports of shutdown were > > > > also > > > > > >> > received from Pulwama > district. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > > >> > *********************** > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Custodial Disappearance > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > KHALID GUL > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June > 30: People > > > of Larkipora in Dooru > > > > demonstrated > > > > > >> > for the second > consecutive day on > > > Tuesday against the enforced > > > > > >> > custodial disappearance > of a > > > teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > > > > > >> > Rifles battalion of army, > and vowed > > > to intensify agitation if the > > > > > >> > government fails to find > the boy in > > > two days. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son > of Muhammad > > > Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > > > > > >> > Larkipora was summoned by > the > > > troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > > > > > >> > camp on Sunday morning, > but he is > > > missing since. The Commanding > > > > > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel > Sundaram, > > > admitted on Monday that army had > > > > > >> > called Basharat to the > camp at 9:30 > > > AM on Sunday. “It was just a > > > > > >> > routine visit and > nothing > > > else.  Thereafter he left from here at > > > > > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he > said. > > > > > >> >  Bashir Ahmad Bhat, > who heads > > > Action Committee formed by villagers > > > > on > > > > > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask > the > > > government to tell us whereabouts of > > > > > >> > Basharat in two days. > After that we > > > will be forced to take extreme > > > > > >> > steps.” > > > > > >> >  “The government > has passed > > > instructions that army should inform > > > > local > > > > > >> > police before summoning > or > > > releasing a person. In this case, the boy > > > > > >> > was called to the camp > and then > > > released without informing us,” said > > > > a > > > > > >> > top police official. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder > brother of > > > Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > > > > > >> > everyone because he is > youngest in > > > our family. We have been trying > > > > to > > > > > >> > convince mother that he > is safe but > > > she is very worried. And we are > > > > > >> > concerned about her too > because she > > > is a cardiac patient.” > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >  Meanwhile, people > of Chakpath > > > and some adjacent villages > > > > demonstrated > > > > > >> > against Basharat’s > disappearance. > > > They shouted pro-freedom and > > > > > >> > anti-army slogans and > blocked > > > Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades > > > > and > > > > > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz > Islamabad > > > Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > > > > > >> > and supported the two day > deadline > > > set by the Action Committee. > > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > >> > reader-list: an open > discussion > > > list on media and the city. > > > > > >> > Critiques & > Collaborations > > > > > >> > To subscribe: send an > email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > > >> > subscribe in the subject > header. > > > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > >> > List archive: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > > > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > > > > >> www.sarai.net > > > > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > >> reader-list: an open > discussion list on > > > media and the city. > > > > > >> Critiques & > Collaborations > > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > > >> subscribe in the subject > header. > > > > > >> To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > >> List archive: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times > of India > > > > > > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > > > > > > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 21:53:35 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:53:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> References: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907010923o782d9e3ct419d01faf90c2afe@mail.gmail.com> We need to analyse the root cause of unrest in Kashmir. Not in history, but in person. Kashmir is being destroyed each and every day by a violent mindset. The mindset of destruction, non-cooperation with the government and bloodshed. The fundamentalists have sadly taken over the JUSTICE campaign for Asiya and Nilofer. The Majlis of Shopian doesn't have a say in the decision making because of the Geelani's and Malik's of the land. These hooligans have resolved to destroy Kashmir and its people at any cost. They, thus use each possible opportunity for spreading unrest in Kashmir, which used to be a paradise. Please have courage to accept the destruction being framed for years by these terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists. Wake up to their propaganda. Enough of this MINDSET. The security forces are there for protection and to maintain law and order. They will stay till the situation demands. The ordinary Kashmiri wants peace, employment opportunities and an end to the 'MOHALLA' politics of Kashmir run by the very same separatist elements. They want to be a part of the mainstream in their country and compete with their fellow Indians. We have run campaigns for many rape/murder female victims; but there is a way to it. We initially supported investigative agencies with full faith and reacted only when there was a need for it. To have pre-conceived notions is like insane. A procedure needs to be followed. To relate every such Justice campaign with stone throwing and abusing the brave Jawans, is equally insane. This will get them no JUSTICE. Violence will only give them more violence in return. On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:56 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Mr Malik, > > The reason why you have chosen turn a blind eye to the forces occupying > Kashmir is because it becomes an easier task to say that seperatists commit > atrocities because they are bunch of hooligans up in arms against the > state, > while police forces are for maintanence of law and order, so whatever they > do, it has to be under the garb of law and order. lets face it -- both > separatists followed by the security forces are only destroying Kashmir. > people are obviously opposed to violence in any form be it seperatists or > forces. however, they have more expectations from the forces as they > represent some form of protection also, which is why such protests are > there. those who protect cannot become rapists or murderers. they just > cannot. > > anupam > > On 7/1/09, A.K. Malik wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr Kaul, > > I will only give a brief comment.People find it easy to curse > & > > protest against CRPF/Police/Govt but are either scared to protest against > > actions of terrorists or are just disinterested. > > None can understand the anguish and pain except the ones who have > > suffered.We have seen this at the time of partition. > > Regards > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir > > > To: "sarai list" > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009,5:19 PM > > > Dear Anupam.. > > > > > > I'm not wondering of even an iota of humanity in a mob, > > > especially those > > > ones directed by separatist elements in Kashmir. Long ago I > > > was on the > > > receiving end, when we had to leave our homes in early > > > morning darkness in > > > 1990. We met with an exodus, due to fear of gun culture and > > > slogans from > > > mosque loud speakers against our women-folk. The situation > > > is no better now. > > > When the mentally sick mob could attack the minority > > > unarmed population > > > without a reason to justify their horrific act, I've > > > reasons to believe they > > > can blindly torch an ambulance under orders from Malik's > > > and Geelani's. > > > > > > I just recommended disc throw. There of course are several > > > other > > > opportunities with the local Kashmiri Muslim population. I > > > can give hundreds > > > of examples. Quazi Toqeer could win the Indian Idol, even > > > though he came > > > from a far off village in Kashmir. Similarly, Athaer Parvaz > > > has joined > > > another reality show on a popular entertainment channel. > > > There are travel > > > companies and shawl emporiums throughout the globe and in > > > each Indian city > > > with Kashmiris doing brisk business. They don't have any > > > anger towards the > > > system. They have adequate opportunities and are proud > > > Indians. > > > > > > I wish Omar Abdullah provides good employment opportunities > > > to these local > > > Kashmiris, so that they don't get carried away into these > > > violent separatist > > > funded protests for mere few hundred rupees. > > > > > > It is easy to take the separatist line, 'coz it has media > > > melting in > > > immediately. But, it is difficult to speak and support the > > > truth in Kashmir. > > > For obvious reasons. > > > > > > I still wonder why there have been no protests in Kashmir > > > for two ladies who > > > fell to the bullets of terrorists (Hizbul) ? One of them > > > hailed from > > > Shopian. > > > > > > I would appreciate if the Majlis of Shopian chaired by > > > Mohd. Shafi Khan, > > > takes note of it and includes it in the protests and not > > > give away this to > > > separatist pressure. > > > > > > I'm not asking this time to campaign for Kashmiri Pandit > > > rape/murder > > > victims. Not even asking to demand immediate arrest and > > > death penalty to > > > terrorist and rapist YASIN MALIK. I don't expect that to > > > happen anyways. > > > > > > Hope all in this list are aware that local Pandits of > > > Kashmir are as well > > > participating in the Shopian protests peacefully wearing > > > black bands. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:42 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Mobs torching ambulances is the worse thing that could > > > happen. it can > > > > happen > > > > only when there is no proper medical facility at a > > > given place or the > > > > ambulance doesnt reach on time. it is important before > > > suggesting a > > > > remedial > > > > measure, that too when one has already described it as > > > a mob, one needs to > > > > find the reason why a mob would do such a thing. > > > again, this comment is not > > > > to justify the act, this is to put an end to such acts > > > of utter idiocy that > > > > people resort to during the times of strife. sending > > > them to discuss throw > > > > competition is easier for anyone to say, as it is very > > > easy to write a > > > > comment (mine or yours) but it would be appreciated if > > > such remedial > > > > measures are not suggested. moreover, in case the post > > > about burning > > > > ambulance suggests even in a light and jestful manner > > > that the angry mobs > > > > participating in such incidents can divert their > > > energies onto something > > > > else as suggested by you -- sports, then i guess they > > > should also be > > > > provided with those opportunities where they can > > > divert their anger. > > > > unfortunately, for sports can only happen when you > > > have the right kind of > > > > spirit -- also called the sporting spirit -- which is > > > not possible with so > > > > much anger and frustration. however, with the > > > occupation of hatefilled > > > > forces of CRPF or Separatists, these mere needs become > > > ideals. in case if > > > > you are wondering about humanity in a mob, you better > > > run. > > > > On 7/1/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just heard in news, Mob torched an ambulance in > > > Baramulla. Wonder who > > > > acts > > > > > against humanity now ? > > > > > > > > > > Hope these unarmed stone throwers instead > > > concentrate on demanding > > > > justice > > > > > for the victims of shopian and other rape victims > > > - with religion no bar. > > > > > Its insane to butter politics out of this > > > sensitive issue. > > > > > > > > > > Or else they can try their luck in any > > > International Disc (Discuss) throw > > > > > competition, since they won't take part in Indian > > > National games :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I pray someday OCCUPATION of Kashmir by > > > force of > > > > > > terrorists/separatists/fundamentalists ends. > > > The mindset needs to > > > > change, > > > > > > for this to happen sometime in future. > > > > > > > > > > > > In solidarity with the victims of separatist > > > violence. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Shuddhabrata > > > Sengupta < > > > > shuddha at sarai.net > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Junaid, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Many thanks for these details from > > > Kashmir, they are, as always, > > > > > >> saddening. The loss of life, and the > > > fact that the CRPF have once > > > > > >> again attacked unarmed protestors with > > > bullets is deeply shameful, > > > > > >> and that they prevented ambulances from > > > reaching the injured is > > > > > >> shocking. It is as if those who > > > administer the occupation of Kashmir > > > > > >> have no remorse for their bloody record > > > and no capacity either, to > > > > > >> accept the humanity of those they > > > 'encounter' on the streets with > > > > > >> weapons. As an Indian citizen, I am > > > ashamed every time this happens. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I also appreciate and respect the > > > trouble taken by you to post a > > > > > >> thoughtful and critical reply to my > > > postings on Iran. I have read it, > > > > > >> and will do so again, carefully, and > > > respond, in detail. Our > > > > > >> differences on Iran will probably > > > remain, but this does not mean, as > > > > > >> you point out that we are incapable of > > > solidarity on matters, closer > > > > > >> to home, both for you and for me. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Warm regards, and in solidarity, and > > > with the hope that someday, the > > > > > >> occupation of Kashmir by the force of > > > arms will end > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Shuddha > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 01-Jul-09, at 3:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thought some of you might be > > > interested in what is happening in > > > > > >> > Kashmir. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Kashmir Shuts Down To Protest > > > Killings > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > ALTAF BABA / GOWHAR BHAT > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Varmul On Boil > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Varmul/Srinagar, June 29: A youth > > > was killed and a minor sustained > > > > > >> > critical injuries when paramilitary > > > CRPF troopers opened fire to > > > > quell > > > > > >> > protesters at Varmul in north > > > Kashmir, while the Valley observed a > > > > > >> > complete shutdown in response to > > > the strike call given by the > > > > Hurriyat > > > > > >> > Conference (G) against the killing > > > of two youth in police firing on > > > > > >> > Monday. > > > > > >> > Witnesses told Greater > > > Kashmir that late this evening hundreds of > > > > > >> > youth took to the streets at > > > Khanpora, Varmul and tried taking out a > > > > > >> > procession. “Paramilitary > > > troopers deployed there opened fire on the > > > > > >> > peaceful demonstrators injuring a > > > youth Fayaz Ahmed Gojri. Bullet > > > > > >> > pierced through his chest and he > > > started bleeding profusely. We > > > > called > > > > > >> > the hospital and asked for an > > > ambulance. But CRPF troopers didn’t > > > > > >> > allow the ambulance to enter > > > Khanpora and he succumbed to his > > > > > >> > injuries,” they added. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > After the word about his > > > death spread, hundreds of men, women and > > > > > >> > children raising pro-freedom and > > > anti-India slogans poured on to the > > > > > >> > streets demanding withdrawal > > > of CRPF from the town. “Within 2-days, > > > > > >> > three youth have been killed and > > > scores injured many of them > > > > > >> > critically. The CRPF should be > > > withdrawn from the town,” protesters > > > > > >> > said. > > > > > >> > They vowed to continue the > > > protests till the CRPF was withdrawn. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Earlier in the morning > > > hundreds of youth defied the curfew in the > > > > > >> > Varmul town and took to the streets > > > to give vent to their ire. > > > > > >> > Protesters were demanding action > > > against the policemen and troopers > > > > > >> > who had opened fire on the > > > protesters yesterday in which two youth > > > > > >> > were killed. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > “As they tried to march > > > ahead, police and CRPF men used force to > > > > > >> > quell them. They burst tear smoke > > > canisters and later fired upon the > > > > > >> > protesters injuring scores of them. > > > A bullet hit a minor Bilal > > > > Bashir, > > > > > >> > 15, son of Bashir Ahmad Bhat near > > > Cement Bridge. He was shifted to > > > > > >> > Srinagar for specialized > > > treatment,” they said. Doctors attending > > > > upon > > > > > >> > Bilal termed his condition to be > > > critical. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > According to the witnesses, > > > an official of the 46 Rashtriya Rifles > > > > > >> > and his men along with a few > > > civilians were beaten by the CRPF > > > > > >> > troopers when they were shifting > > > Bilal to hospital in an army > > > > vehicle. > > > > > >> > “As the vehicle reached the main > > > chowk we were stopped by the CRPF > > > > > >> > men. They dragged us and the RR > > > personnel out of the vehicle and > > > > beat > > > > > >> > us,” said Javed Ahmad who was in > > > the vehicle. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > PROTESTS IN SOPUR, BANDIPORE > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Protests also rocked several > > > areas of Sopur including Badambagh, > > > > > >> > Batapora and Chankhan where youth > > > defied the curfew. Protesters > > > > > >> > raising pro-freedom and anti-CRPF > > > slogans marched through the > > > > streets. > > > > > >> > They were demanding action against > > > the erring troopers who opened > > > > fire > > > > > >> > on the peaceful demonstrators. > > > Policemen and troopers who were > > > > > >> > deployed in the strength in the > > > area beat them up with batons and > > > > > >> > fired tear smoke canisters to > > > disperse them. However, youth > > > > retaliated > > > > > >> > with stones, triggering clashes > > > which continued till late in the > > > > > >> > evening. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > The protests also spilled to > > > Bandipore district where eight persons > > > > > >> > including two policemen were > > > injured in the clashes between police > > > > and > > > > > >> > protesters. At main town, > > > Bandipore, youth held protests which were > > > > > >> > dealt with force by police. > > > However, protesters showed resistance by > > > > > >> > hurling stones. Half a dozen > > > persons including two policemen were > > > > > >> > injured in the clashes. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > At Sumbal, people held > > > protests and blocked the Srinagar-Bandipore > > > > > >> > road by burning tyres and erecting > > > blockades. The protesters later > > > > > >> > dispersed off peacefully. > > > > > >> > In Kupwara, authorities had > > > imposed curfew-like restrictions as > > > > > >> > police and paramilitary troopers > > > blocked the Sopur-Kupwara road. > > > > > >> > Locals said the policemen didn’t > > > allow them to move out of their > > > > > >> > homes. Kupwara and Handwara towns > > > observed a complete shutdown. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > SRINAGAR > > > > > >> > Life remained crippled in > > > Srinagar city in response to the > > > > Hurriyat’s > > > > > >> > call even as protests were held at > > > a few places. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > At Maisuma, Gaw kadal and > > > Nowhatta, youth staged protest > > > > > >> > demonstrations against the Varmul > > > killings. However, police and CRPF > > > > > >> > troopers, deployed in strength, > > > suppressed protests by teargas > > > > > >> > shelling in which two women were > > > injured. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Witnesses said a teargas > > > shell hit a woman on her hand while > > > > another > > > > > >> > was run over near Gaw Kadal. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > All the shops, educational > > > institutions, banks and government > > > > offices > > > > > >> > remained closed. Barring civil > > > secretariat, attendance in the > > > > > >> > government offices was nil. Public > > > transport remained off the roads. > > > > > >> > However, in uptown areas, private > > > vehicles could be seen plying > > > > > >> > intermittently. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > SOUTH KASHMIR > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > In Islamabad district, > > > clashes broke out between the police and > > > > > >> > protestors early in the morning at > > > several places including Cheeni > > > > > >> > Chowk and Malakhnag localities. The > > > protestors came out on the roads > > > > > >> > and started raising pro-freedom and > > > anti-army slogans. The Police > > > > and > > > > > >> > CRPF resorted to baton charge to > > > disperse them. Later CRPF and > > > > police > > > > > >> > personnel beat up several > > > pedestrians and arrested several youth for > > > > > >> > holding demos. Youth again > > > regrouped in the afternoon and held > > > > > >> > protests at Reshi Bagh. At Cheeni > > > Chowk, youth attacked a CRPF > > > > bunker > > > > > >> > with stones but were later chased > > > away by troopers. The protests > > > > > >> > continued till late evening. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > A complete shutdown was observed in > > > the entire district as shops, > > > > > >> > business and offices remained > > > closed. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Normal life also came to > > > stand still in the neighbouring Kulgam > > > > > >> > district in view of the complete > > > strike. Reports of shutdown were > > > > also > > > > > >> > received from Pulwama district. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > > >> > *********************** > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Custodial Disappearance > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > KHALID GUL > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Larkipora (Dooru), June 30: People > > > of Larkipora in Dooru > > > > demonstrated > > > > > >> > for the second consecutive day on > > > Tuesday against the enforced > > > > > >> > custodial disappearance of a > > > teenager by the troops of 36 Rashtriya > > > > > >> > Rifles battalion of army, and vowed > > > to intensify agitation if the > > > > > >> > government fails to find the boy in > > > two days. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Basharat Ahmad, 16, son of Muhammad > > > Maqbool Bhat of Chakpath, > > > > > >> > Larkipora was summoned by the > > > troops of 36 Rashtriya Rifles to their > > > > > >> > camp on Sunday morning, but he is > > > missing since. The Commanding > > > > > >> > Officer of 36 RR, Colonel Sundaram, > > > admitted on Monday that army had > > > > > >> > called Basharat to the camp at 9:30 > > > AM on Sunday. “It was just a > > > > > >> > routine visit and nothing > > > else. Thereafter he left from here at > > > > > >> > around 1:00 PM,” he said. > > > > > >> > Bashir Ahmad Bhat, who heads > > > Action Committee formed by villagers > > > > on > > > > > >> > Tuesday, said, “We ask the > > > government to tell us whereabouts of > > > > > >> > Basharat in two days. After that we > > > will be forced to take extreme > > > > > >> > steps.” > > > > > >> > “The government has passed > > > instructions that army should inform > > > > local > > > > > >> > police before summoning or > > > releasing a person. In this case, the boy > > > > > >> > was called to the camp and then > > > released without informing us,” said > > > > a > > > > > >> > top police official. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Showkat Ahmad, elder brother of > > > Basharat, said, “He is very dear to > > > > > >> > everyone because he is youngest in > > > our family. We have been trying > > > > to > > > > > >> > convince mother that he is safe but > > > she is very worried. And we are > > > > > >> > concerned about her too because she > > > is a cardiac patient.” > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Meanwhile, people of Chakpath > > > and some adjacent villages > > > > demonstrated > > > > > >> > against Basharat’s disappearance. > > > They shouted pro-freedom and > > > > > >> > anti-army slogans and blocked > > > Veerinag-Dooru road with barricades > > > > and > > > > > >> > burning tyres. Mirwaiz Islamabad > > > Qazi Yasir addressed the protesters > > > > > >> > and supported the two day deadline > > > set by the Action Committee. > > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on media and the city. > > > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > >> > List archive: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > > >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > > > >> Raqs Media Collective > > > > > >> shuddha at sarai.net > > > > > >> www.sarai.net > > > > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on > > > media and the city. > > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > >> To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > >> List archive: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > > > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > > > > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 23:09:20 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 23:09:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? In-Reply-To: <137872.46362.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <137872.46362.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Rahul No law or system of governance is ideal for all. Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy. For all practical purposes, democracy does not guarantee justice (and even equality) to all, although it maybe the most ideal system today. The panchayati system in rural India still gives most power to the high-caste goons. Afghan mujahids (or criminal gangs) would have used some other law to suppress women and kill innocent people if shariat was not there. Its how you use the law in your favour, even if it looks the most innocuous or balanced. J On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Javed, > Yes this answers my query. Now we can discuss further. > 1.Do you think laws are made on a best case scenario? > 2.Do you think we can rely on the better judgement of the majority when we choose to be governed by a law? > 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE or not for the Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban kind of way? > It is precisely for the reason that many interpretations are possible (a Taliban kind of implementation is one of them) that non Muslims,women etc should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, suppose your support for Shariat passively enables an entity like Taliban to come to power.I am assuming you in a democracy you would vote for a political party who stands for Shariat) then would you accept some responsibilty for that or call them "non Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your shoulders?This is exactly how the rise of Taliban has played out in Pakistan. > This discussion may be academic because as you have already said that owing to  allegiance to your religion abiding by Shariat is your duty.No secular jurisprudence can provide you an alternative to that.So I thank you for discussing this with me anyway. > See, the thing is,that liberal interpreters of Shariat want the ideology behind their islamic identity to be just another secular humanist philosophy so badly that they think they can just shut their eyes, click their heels together, and it will all happen just as they want to.Other liberals like Shuddha should realize the danger inherent in this kind of exercise. > > Thanks > Rahul > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed wrote: > >> From: M Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM >> Rahul, which shariat are you >> referring to when you ask my opinion. >> What is the definition of shariat which I want to be >> governed with? I >> have my own definition of shariat, and I would be very >> happy to be >> governed under that. My shariat is very much from Islam, >> but it gives >> queers the right to live happily. >> >> Hope that answers your query. >> >> Javed >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul Asthana >> wrote: >> > >> > Dear Javed, >> > I don't think you have thought this through,which is >> why you are unable to make the distinction between "adopt >> something from the shariat" and "being governed by >> shariat".I just wanted to know whether you are in favor of >> making "Shariat a basis for governance" or not.This is the >> key .Everything else is just gravy. >> > Thanks >> > Rahul >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: M Javed >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the >> right to give fatwas? >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> "sarai list" >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:40 PM >> >> Dear Rahul >> >> Here is my clearer position: I have been brought >> up in an >> >> orthodox >> >> Muslim family where shariat was/is considered the >> ultimate >> >> law/norm to >> >> follow for a Muslim. But in my childhood days it >> wasn't >> >> considered >> >> such an evil thing (as Taliban has made it to be). >> Let me >> >> tell you, >> >> following shariat in our daily lives is very >> different from >> >> making it >> >> as a basis for governance. Shariat as a basis of >> governance >> >> is not >> >> something fixed any way - it has been interpreted >> >> differently in >> >> different Islamic countries. Indonesia, Malaysia >> or Turkey >> >> also follow >> >> shariat but their systems are much more liberal. >> That is >> >> why I insist: >> >> please don't see shariat only through the eyes of >> the >> >> Taliban/Afghanistan. >> >> >> >> Whatever name you give it, the point is, is your >> system of >> >> governance >> >> favourable for you. At the moment I am governed >> by >> >> democracy, whether >> >> I like it or not. There are many things I hate in >> >> democracy, and would >> >> love to change them one day (if I could), even >> adopt >> >> something from >> >> the shariat. Is there something wrong with that? >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Rahul >> Asthana >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> > Could you make your position clearer on this >> issue? >> >> You say- >> >> > "My second minor difference is: when you say >> "We are >> >> not governed by >> >> > the Shariat, and I hope we never will be". I >> am not >> >> sure if Shariat is >> >> > all evil." >> >> > So, do you wish or do you not, to be governed >> by >> >> Shariat? >> >> > >> >> > (Not wishing to be governed by Shariat does >> not mean >> >> that it is evil.It also does not mean that we >> can't adopt >> >> good things from it.) >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Rahul >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> From: M Javed >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives >> muftis the >> >> right to give fatwas? >> >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> >> "sarai list" >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:46 PM >> >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata >> >> >> Actually I have a slight digression from >> your >> >> answer. I >> >> >> don't care >> >> >> what fatwas the muftis give within their >> own >> >> coterie (I'm >> >> >> sure >> >> >> homosexual behaviour exists in the >> Deoband madrasa >> >> too), >> >> >> but the >> >> >> problem comes when this news is flashed >> on the >> >> front-page: >> >> >> it >> >> >> basically sends a clear signal that >> "Muslims" in >> >> general >> >> >> are against >> >> >> homo-sexuality and this is yet another >> example of >> >> how >> >> >> bigoted the >> >> >> entire community is, and there are >> absolutely no >> >> liberals >> >> >> (or >> >> >> queer-friendly) people among the Muslims >> and so >> >> on, which >> >> >> is not the >> >> >> case. In a way, any controversial fatwa >> from the >> >> Deoband >> >> >> (whichever >> >> >> damn topic) is taken by the media as a >> hot saucy >> >> news to be >> >> >> flashed to >> >> >> show the backwardness of Muslims. But my >> question >> >> is >> >> >> (especially to >> >> >> the mainstream media), do these damn >> fatwas >> >> really >> >> >> represent the >> >> >> entire Muslim community? Are they so >> important >> >> that you >> >> >> have to flash >> >> >> them as headlines. >> >> >> >> >> >> My second minor difference is: when you >> say "We >> >> are not >> >> >> governed by >> >> >> the Shariat, and I hope we never will >> be". I am >> >> not sure if >> >> >> Shariat is >> >> >> all evil. Although I don't practice it >> strictly, >> >> but I know >> >> >> it has >> >> >> many good things in it which make at >> least the >> >> good part of >> >> >> Islam >> >> >> alive. Don't see it only through the eyes >> of the >> >> Taliban. >> >> >> Whether we >> >> >> get governed by the shariat or not, I >> hope we >> >> could at >> >> >> least adopt the >> >> >> good things about it. And Shariat is not >> a fixed >> >> set of >> >> >> rules; it can >> >> >> be and should be open for interpretation, >> which >> >> these >> >> >> muftis have >> >> >> stopped doing. >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks any way. >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:53 PM, >> Shuddhabrata >> >> >> Sengupta >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> >> > Thank you for forwarding this. I >> don't know >> >> who gives >> >> >> these muftis and >> >> >> > tuftis the right to give fatwas, I >> think they >> >> give it >> >> >> to themselves. And >> >> >> > since they routinely issue fatwas on >> all >> >> manner of >> >> >> ridiculous matters, we >> >> >> > might as well treat this one too >> with the >> >> lack of >> >> >> seriousness that it >> >> >> > deserves. >> >> >> > We are not governed by the Shariat, >> and I >> >> hope we >> >> >> never will be. Since we >> >> >> > are not governed by the Shariat, it >> hardly >> >> matters >> >> >> whether or not Maulana >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi thinks >> homosexuality is >> >> an >> >> >> offence under Shariat Law. >> >> >> > Not even the relevant (and >> anachronistic, >> >> misogynist >> >> >> and patrarchal) >> >> >> > sections of Personal Law in matters >> of >> >> marriage and >> >> >> inheritance that govern >> >> >> > the lives of Indian Muslims have >> anything to >> >> say about >> >> >> sexual relations in >> >> >> > private between consenting adults. >> So, not >> >> even from >> >> >> the completely >> >> >> > unacceptabe (to me) standpoint of >> defending a >> >> separate >> >> >> civil code for >> >> >> > Muslims is it relevant to discuss >> the fate of >> >> Section >> >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi >> >> >> > is barking up the wrong legal tree. >> >> >> > Finally, a small historical >> digression. >> >> Section 377 >> >> >> was introduced by the >> >> >> > British Colonial Administration in >> India. >> >> Which, as >> >> >> far as i recall, was not >> >> >> > exactly a model Islamic state. In >> fact, the >> >> British >> >> >> Colonial authorities >> >> >> > presided over the decline and >> destruction of >> >> >> 'nominally' Muslim political >> >> >> > power in India. if, for the roughly >> seven >> >> hundred >> >> >> years preceding the advent >> >> >> > of British rule in India, when the >> territory >> >> happened >> >> >> to be ruled largely by >> >> >> > Muslim rulers, (some of whom claimed >> to be >> >> guided by >> >> >> the Shariat) it was not >> >> >> > found necessary to invoke a >> draconian law >> >> like section >> >> >> 377, are we to then >> >> >> > understand that the British >> Colonial >> >> authority was >> >> >> more 'Islamic' than the >> >> >> > Mughal rulers, than the rulers of >> the Delhi >> >> sultanate, >> >> >> and many other kings >> >> >> > and princes of a Muslim persuasion. >> >> >> > And finally, how exactly would we >> remember a >> >> figure >> >> >> like the great Ghazi of >> >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of Ghazna and his >> love for >> >> Ayaz, or >> >> >> Razia Sultana and her >> >> >> > love for women, or the distinctly >> queer >> >> ecstasies of >> >> >> Amir Khusrau and >> >> >> > Sarmad. Each one of these people >> saw >> >> themselves as >> >> >> devout Muslim. And there >> >> >> > was nothing unusual in their being >> queer >> >> Muslims. >> >> >> Islamicate societies all >> >> >> > over the world have been >> historically far >> >> more >> >> >> tolerant of various different >> >> >> > kinds of same-sex relationships both >> male and >> >> female, >> >> >> and transgender >> >> >> > identities, than societies largely >> anchored >> >> in >> >> >> Christian values have been. >> >> >> > Islam is a sex positive religion. >> It >> >> celebrates the >> >> >> dignity, beauty and >> >> >> > diversity of the human body and all >> its >> >> desires. There >> >> >> is (and always has >> >> >> > been) a strong case for a queer >> theology of >> >> liberation >> >> >> that is rooted within >> >> >> > the Islamicate cultural universe, >> and it has >> >> had a >> >> >> long history, and it will >> >> >> > have a long future. >> >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is probably just as >> ignorant >> >> of the >> >> >> traditions he claims are >> >> >> > his own as Praveen Togadia, the >> firebrand >> >> leader of >> >> >> the Vishwa Hindu >> >> >> > Parishad, is. They would probably >> make an >> >> excellent >> >> >> couple, locked happily >> >> >> > together within their private closet >> of >> >> paranoia. >> >> >> > Meanwhile, let us hope that Veerappa >> Moily's >> >> supposed >> >> >> u-turn is only a >> >> >> > digression, and that the provisions >> in >> >> Section 377 >> >> >> that criminalize the >> >> >> > behaviour of consenting adults in >> private >> >> (which >> >> >> should not be the business >> >> >> > of the state)  are consigned >> finally to >> >> where they >> >> >> belong - the dustbin of >> >> >> > history. >> >> >> > And congratulations to all those who >> paraded >> >> on the >> >> >> streets of Delhi, >> >> >> > Bangalore, Madras and Calcutta. The >> future >> >> belongs to >> >> >> you (and us all) not >> >> >> > to the likes of Maulana Madrasi. >> >> >> > regards >> >> >> > Shuddha >> >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at 3:54 PM, M Javed >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Gay sex against tenets of Islam: >> Deoband >> >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 hrs IST, PTI >> >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: A leading Islamic >> seminary >> >> on >> >> >> Monday opposed >> >> >> > Centre's move to repeal a >> controversial >> >> section of the >> >> >> penal law which >> >> >> > criminalises homosexuality saying >> unnatural >> >> sex is >> >> >> against the tenets of >> >> >> > Islam. >> >> >> > "Homosexuality is an offence under >> Shariat >> >> Law and >> >> >> haram (prohibited) >> >> >> > in Islam," deputy vice chancellor of >> the >> >> Darul Uloom >> >> >> Deoband Maulana >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi said. >> >> >> > Madrasi also asked the government >> not to >> >> repeal >> >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> >> > which criminalises homosexuality. >> >> >> > His objection came a day after law >> minister >> >> Veerappa >> >> >> Moily said a >> >> >> > decision on repealing the section >> would be >> >> taken only >> >> >> after >> >> >> > considering concerns of all sections >> of the >> >> society, >> >> >> including >> >> >> > religious groups like the church. >> >> >> > Terming gay activities as crime, >> Maulana >> >> Salim Kasmi, >> >> >> vice-president >> >> >> > of the All-India Muslim Personal Law >> Board >> >> (AIMPLB), >> >> >> said >> >> >> > homosexuality is punishable under >> Islamic law >> >> and >> >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> >> > should not be tampered. >> >> >> > Maulana Mohd Sufiyan Kasmi, an >> AIMPLB member, >> >> and >> >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, >> >> >> > president of Uttar Pradesh Imam >> Organisation >> >> have also >> >> >> expressed >> >> >> > similar views on the issue. >> >> >> > Kasmi said it would be harmful for >> the >> >> society to >> >> >> legalise gay sex. >> >> >> > Buoyed by the news that the Centre >> is >> >> considering >> >> >> repealing the >> >> >> > controversial section of the IPC, >> members of >> >> the gay >> >> >> community on >> >> >> > Sunday held parades in several >> cities. >> >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms >> >> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list >> on media >> >> and the >> >> >> city. >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> >> with subscribe >> >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> > The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> >> >> > Raqs Media Collective >> >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net >> >> >> > www.sarai.net >> >> >> > www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and >> >> the >> >> >> city. >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> List archive: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 23:21:32 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? Message-ID: <387579.9142.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ok so its time for truisms and platitudes now. "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy." Can you elaborate? "The panchayati system in rural India still gives most power to the high-caste goons." Can you elaborate? Can you quote the relevant articles of the panchayati system which "give most power to high-caste goons"? Let me add that the function of constitution is not to "keep everyone happy",whatever that means.It is supposed to provide a basic framework and some non amendable laws.The basic framework and non amendable laws cannot be altered,even if there is majority will to do so. --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed wrote: > From: M Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? > To: "Rahul Asthana" > Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:09 PM > Dear Rahul > No law or system of governance is ideal for all. Indian > constitution > does not keep everyone happy. For all practical purposes, > democracy > does not guarantee justice (and even equality) to all, > although it > maybe the most ideal system today. The panchayati system in > rural > India still gives most power to the high-caste goons. > Afghan mujahids (or criminal gangs) would have used some > other law to > suppress women and kill innocent people if shariat was not > there. Its > how you use the law in your favour, even if it looks the > most > innocuous or balanced. > > J > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > Javed, > > Yes this answers my query. Now we can discuss > further. > > 1.Do you think laws are made on a best case scenario? > > 2.Do you think we can rely on the better judgement of > the majority when we choose to be governed by a law? > > 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE or not for the > Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban kind of way? > > It is precisely for the reason that many > interpretations are possible (a Taliban kind of > implementation is one of them) that non Muslims,women etc > should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, suppose your support > for Shariat passively enables an entity like Taliban to come > to power.I am assuming you in a democracy you would vote for > a political party who stands for Shariat) then would you > accept some responsibilty for that or call them "non > Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your shoulders?This is > exactly how the rise of Taliban has played out in Pakistan. > > This discussion may be academic because as you have > already said that owing to  allegiance to your religion > abiding by Shariat is your duty.No secular jurisprudence can > provide you an alternative to that.So I thank you for > discussing this with me anyway. > > See, the thing is,that liberal interpreters of Shariat > want the ideology behind their islamic identity to be just > another secular humanist philosophy so badly that they think > they can just shut their eyes, click their heels together, > and it will all happen just as they want to.Other liberals > like Shuddha should realize the danger inherent in this kind > of exercise. > > > > Thanks > > Rahul > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed > wrote: > > > >> From: M Javed > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the > right to give fatwas? > >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > "sarai list" > >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM > >> Rahul, which shariat are you > >> referring to when you ask my opinion. > >> What is the definition of shariat which I want to > be > >> governed with? I > >> have my own definition of shariat, and I would be > very > >> happy to be > >> governed under that. My shariat is very much from > Islam, > >> but it gives > >> queers the right to live happily. > >> > >> Hope that answers your query. > >> > >> Javed > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul > Asthana > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Javed, > >> > I don't think you have thought this > through,which is > >> why you are unable to make the distinction between > "adopt > >> something from the shariat" and "being governed > by > >> shariat".I just wanted to know whether you are in > favor of > >> making "Shariat a basis for governance" or > not.This is the > >> key .Everything else is just gravy. > >> > Thanks > >> > Rahul > >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives > muftis the > >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > >> "sarai list" > >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:40 PM > >> >> Dear Rahul > >> >> Here is my clearer position: I have been > brought > >> up in an > >> >> orthodox > >> >> Muslim family where shariat was/is > considered the > >> ultimate > >> >> law/norm to > >> >> follow for a Muslim. But in my childhood > days it > >> wasn't > >> >> considered > >> >> such an evil thing (as Taliban has made > it to be). > >> Let me > >> >> tell you, > >> >> following shariat in our daily lives is > very > >> different from > >> >> making it > >> >> as a basis for governance. Shariat as a > basis of > >> governance > >> >> is not > >> >> something fixed any way - it has been > interpreted > >> >> differently in > >> >> different Islamic countries. Indonesia, > Malaysia > >> or Turkey > >> >> also follow > >> >> shariat but their systems are much more > liberal. > >> That is > >> >> why I insist: > >> >> please don't see shariat only through the > eyes of > >> the > >> >> Taliban/Afghanistan. > >> >> > >> >> Whatever name you give it, the point is, > is your > >> system of > >> >> governance > >> >> favourable for you. At the moment I am > governed > >> by > >> >> democracy, whether > >> >> I like it or not. There are many things I > hate in > >> >> democracy, and would > >> >> love to change them one day (if I could), > even > >> adopt > >> >> something from > >> >> the shariat. Is there something wrong > with that? > >> >> > >> >> Javed > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Rahul > >> Asthana > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> > Could you make your position clearer > on this > >> issue? > >> >> You say- > >> >> > "My second minor difference is: when > you say > >> "We are > >> >> not governed by > >> >> > the Shariat, and I hope we never > will be". I > >> am not > >> >> sure if Shariat is > >> >> > all evil." > >> >> > So, do you wish or do you not, to be > governed > >> by > >> >> Shariat? > >> >> > > >> >> > (Not wishing to be governed by > Shariat does > >> not mean > >> >> that it is evil.It also does not mean > that we > >> can't adopt > >> >> good things from it.) > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > Rahul > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who > gives > >> muftis the > >> >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > , > >> >> "sarai list" > >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, > 3:46 PM > >> >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata > >> >> >> Actually I have a slight > digression from > >> your > >> >> answer. I > >> >> >> don't care > >> >> >> what fatwas the muftis give > within their > >> own > >> >> coterie (I'm > >> >> >> sure > >> >> >> homosexual behaviour exists in > the > >> Deoband madrasa > >> >> too), > >> >> >> but the > >> >> >> problem comes when this news is > flashed > >> on the > >> >> front-page: > >> >> >> it > >> >> >> basically sends a clear signal > that > >> "Muslims" in > >> >> general > >> >> >> are against > >> >> >> homo-sexuality and this is yet > another > >> example of > >> >> how > >> >> >> bigoted the > >> >> >> entire community is, and there > are > >> absolutely no > >> >> liberals > >> >> >> (or > >> >> >> queer-friendly) people among the > Muslims > >> and so > >> >> on, which > >> >> >> is not the > >> >> >> case. In a way, any > controversial fatwa > >> from the > >> >> Deoband > >> >> >> (whichever > >> >> >> damn topic) is taken by the > media as a > >> hot saucy > >> >> news to be > >> >> >> flashed to > >> >> >> show the backwardness of > Muslims. But my > >> question > >> >> is > >> >> >> (especially to > >> >> >> the mainstream media), do these > damn > >> fatwas > >> >> really > >> >> >> represent the > >> >> >> entire Muslim community? Are > they so > >> important > >> >> that you > >> >> >> have to flash > >> >> >> them as headlines. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> My second minor difference is: > when you > >> say "We > >> >> are not > >> >> >> governed by > >> >> >> the Shariat, and I hope we never > will > >> be". I am > >> >> not sure if > >> >> >> Shariat is > >> >> >> all evil. Although I don't > practice it > >> strictly, > >> >> but I know > >> >> >> it has > >> >> >> many good things in it which > make at > >> least the > >> >> good part of > >> >> >> Islam > >> >> >> alive. Don't see it only through > the eyes > >> of the > >> >> Taliban. > >> >> >> Whether we > >> >> >> get governed by the shariat or > not, I > >> hope we > >> >> could at > >> >> >> least adopt the > >> >> >> good things about it. And > Shariat is not > >> a fixed > >> >> set of > >> >> >> rules; it can > >> >> >> be and should be open for > interpretation, > >> which > >> >> these > >> >> >> muftis have > >> >> >> stopped doing. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Thanks any way. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Javed > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:53 > PM, > >> Shuddhabrata > >> >> >> Sengupta > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> >> > Thank you for forwarding > this. I > >> don't know > >> >> who gives > >> >> >> these muftis and > >> >> >> > tuftis the right to give > fatwas, I > >> think they > >> >> give it > >> >> >> to themselves. And > >> >> >> > since they routinely issue > fatwas on > >> all > >> >> manner of > >> >> >> ridiculous matters, we > >> >> >> > might as well treat this > one too > >> with the > >> >> lack of > >> >> >> seriousness that it > >> >> >> > deserves. > >> >> >> > We are not governed by the > Shariat, > >> and I > >> >> hope we > >> >> >> never will be. Since we > >> >> >> > are not governed by the > Shariat, it > >> hardly > >> >> matters > >> >> >> whether or not Maulana > >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi > thinks > >> homosexuality is > >> >> an > >> >> >> offence under Shariat Law. > >> >> >> > Not even the relevant (and > >> anachronistic, > >> >> misogynist > >> >> >> and patrarchal) > >> >> >> > sections of Personal Law in > matters > >> of > >> >> marriage and > >> >> >> inheritance that govern > >> >> >> > the lives of Indian Muslims > have > >> anything to > >> >> say about > >> >> >> sexual relations in > >> >> >> > private between consenting > adults. > >> So, not > >> >> even from > >> >> >> the completely > >> >> >> > unacceptabe (to me) > standpoint of > >> defending a > >> >> separate > >> >> >> civil code for > >> >> >> > Muslims is it relevant to > discuss > >> the fate of > >> >> Section > >> >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi > >> >> >> > is barking up the wrong > legal tree. > >> >> >> > Finally, a small > historical > >> digression. > >> >> Section 377 > >> >> >> was introduced by the > >> >> >> > British Colonial > Administration in > >> India. > >> >> Which, as > >> >> >> far as i recall, was not > >> >> >> > exactly a model Islamic > state. In > >> fact, the > >> >> British > >> >> >> Colonial authorities > >> >> >> > presided over the decline > and > >> destruction of > >> >> >> 'nominally' Muslim political > >> >> >> > power in India. if, for the > roughly > >> seven > >> >> hundred > >> >> >> years preceding the advent > >> >> >> > of British rule in India, > when the > >> territory > >> >> happened > >> >> >> to be ruled largely by > >> >> >> > Muslim rulers, (some of > whom claimed > >> to be > >> >> guided by > >> >> >> the Shariat) it was not > >> >> >> > found necessary to invoke > a > >> draconian law > >> >> like section > >> >> >> 377, are we to then > >> >> >> > understand that the > British > >> Colonial > >> >> authority was > >> >> >> more 'Islamic' than the > >> >> >> > Mughal rulers, than the > rulers of > >> the Delhi > >> >> sultanate, > >> >> >> and many other kings > >> >> >> > and princes of a Muslim > persuasion. > >> >> >> > And finally, how exactly > would we > >> remember a > >> >> figure > >> >> >> like the great Ghazi of > >> >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of Ghazna > and his > >> love for > >> >> Ayaz, or > >> >> >> Razia Sultana and her > >> >> >> > love for women, or the > distinctly > >> queer > >> >> ecstasies of > >> >> >> Amir Khusrau and > >> >> >> > Sarmad. Each one of these > people > >> saw > >> >> themselves as > >> >> >> devout Muslim. And there > >> >> >> > was nothing unusual in > their being > >> queer > >> >> Muslims. > >> >> >> Islamicate societies all > >> >> >> > over the world have been > >> historically far > >> >> more > >> >> >> tolerant of various different > >> >> >> > kinds of same-sex > relationships both > >> male and > >> >> female, > >> >> >> and transgender > >> >> >> > identities, than societies > largely > >> anchored > >> >> in > >> >> >> Christian values have been. > >> >> >> > Islam is a sex positive > religion. > >> It > >> >> celebrates the > >> >> >> dignity, beauty and > >> >> >> > diversity of the human body > and all > >> its > >> >> desires. There > >> >> >> is (and always has > >> >> >> > been) a strong case for a > queer > >> theology of > >> >> liberation > >> >> >> that is rooted within > >> >> >> > the Islamicate cultural > universe, > >> and it has > >> >> had a > >> >> >> long history, and it will > >> >> >> > have a long future. > >> >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is probably > just as > >> ignorant > >> >> of the > >> >> >> traditions he claims are > >> >> >> > his own as Praveen Togadia, > the > >> firebrand > >> >> leader of > >> >> >> the Vishwa Hindu > >> >> >> > Parishad, is. They would > probably > >> make an > >> >> excellent > >> >> >> couple, locked happily > >> >> >> > together within their > private closet > >> of > >> >> paranoia. > >> >> >> > Meanwhile, let us hope that > Veerappa > >> Moily's > >> >> supposed > >> >> >> u-turn is only a > >> >> >> > digression, and that the > provisions > >> in > >> >> Section 377 > >> >> >> that criminalize the > >> >> >> > behaviour of consenting > adults in > >> private > >> >> (which > >> >> >> should not be the business > >> >> >> > of the state)  are > consigned > >> finally to > >> >> where they > >> >> >> belong - the dustbin of > >> >> >> > history. > >> >> >> > And congratulations to all > those who > >> paraded > >> >> on the > >> >> >> streets of Delhi, > >> >> >> > Bangalore, Madras and > Calcutta. The > >> future > >> >> belongs to > >> >> >> you (and us all) not > >> >> >> > to the likes of Maulana > Madrasi. > >> >> >> > regards > >> >> >> > Shuddha > >> >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at 3:54 PM, M > Javed > >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Gay sex against tenets of > Islam: > >> Deoband > >> >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 hrs IST, > PTI > >> >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: A > leading Islamic > >> seminary > >> >> on > >> >> >> Monday opposed > >> >> >> > Centre's move to repeal a > >> controversial > >> >> section of the > >> >> >> penal law which > >> >> >> > criminalises homosexuality > saying > >> unnatural > >> >> sex is > >> >> >> against the tenets of > >> >> >> > Islam. > >> >> >> > "Homosexuality is an > offence under > >> Shariat > >> >> Law and > >> >> >> haram (prohibited) > >> >> >> > in Islam," deputy vice > chancellor of > >> the > >> >> Darul Uloom > >> >> >> Deoband Maulana > >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi said. > >> >> >> > Madrasi also asked the > government > >> not to > >> >> repeal > >> >> >> section 377 of IPC > >> >> >> > which criminalises > homosexuality. > >> >> >> > His objection came a day > after law > >> minister > >> >> Veerappa > >> >> >> Moily said a > >> >> >> > decision on repealing the > section > >> would be > >> >> taken only > >> >> >> after > >> >> >> > considering concerns of all > sections > >> of the > >> >> society, > >> >> >> including > >> >> >> > religious groups like the > church. > >> >> >> > Terming gay activities as > crime, > >> Maulana > >> >> Salim Kasmi, > >> >> >> vice-president > >> >> >> > of the All-India Muslim > Personal Law > >> Board > >> >> (AIMPLB), > >> >> >> said > >> >> >> > homosexuality is punishable > under > >> Islamic law > >> >> and > >> >> >> section 377 of IPC > >> >> >> > should not be tampered. > >> >> >> > Maulana Mohd Sufiyan Kasmi, > an > >> AIMPLB member, > >> >> and > >> >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, > >> >> >> > president of Uttar Pradesh > Imam > >> Organisation > >> >> have also > >> >> >> expressed > >> >> >> > similar views on the > issue. > >> >> >> > Kasmi said it would be > harmful for > >> the > >> >> society to > >> >> >> legalise gay sex. > >> >> >> > Buoyed by the news that the > Centre > >> is > >> >> considering > >> >> >> repealing the > >> >> >> > controversial section of > the IPC, > >> members of > >> >> the gay > >> >> >> community on > >> >> >> > Sunday held parades in > several > >> cities. > >> >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms > >> >> >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> > reader-list: an open > discussion list > >> on media > >> >> and the > >> >> >> city. > >> >> >> > Critiques & > Collaborations > >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email > to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> >> with subscribe > >> >> >> > in the subject header. > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> > List archive: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> >> >> > The Sarai Programme at > CSDS > >> >> >> > Raqs Media Collective > >> >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> >> > www.sarai.net > >> >> >> > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion > list on > >> media and > >> >> the > >> >> >> city. > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> >> with subscribe in the subject > header. > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> List archive: > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 23:50:57 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 23:50:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Antonio Pizzigati Prize for Software in the Public Interest - Call for Nominations Message-ID: Peace and Collaborative Development Network Building Bridges, Networks and Expertise Across Sectors [image: Craig Zelizer] Craig Zelizer Check out the discussion 'The Antonio Pizzigati Prize for Software in the Public Interest, Call for Nominations' Discussion posted by Craig Zelizer : The Antonio Pizzigati Prize for Software in the Public Interest, an annual competition begun in 2006, offers a $10,000 award to a softwar... Discussion link: The Antonio Pizzigati Prize for Software in the Public Interest, Call for Nominations About Peace and Collaborative Development Network This is a professional networking site to encourage interaction between individuals & organizations worldwide involved in development, peace, conflict resolution and related fields. Members are encouraged to dialogue and share resources. [image: Peace and Collaborative Development Network] 7979 members 3080 photos 590 videos 2600 discussions 385 Events 1496 blog posts From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 00:04:15 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 00:04:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? Message-ID: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in his grave if this comes true. For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day in media suggests that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong verdict against the Section 377 IPC. Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the case might be immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. Hope this is helpful. thanks Aditya Raj Kaul *More from IANS* The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian court on a 19th century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal offence. The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz Foundation, pleaded that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour should be scrapped for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) is violative of their fundamental right. Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who “voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal” shall be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and be liable to pay a fine. During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry and the home ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in their opinion, with the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the petitioners and the home ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity saying such behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian society. From justjunaid at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 03:07:38 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 03:07:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] And here ends my journey to Kashmir Message-ID: And here ends my journey to Kashmir EXPERIENCE By Sumegha Gulati Today is my last day in Srinagar. The experiences I had in these two months were immensely different from what I had seen earlier. A different culture, new companions, supportive professionals and loving people—the various hues of Kashmir made it a beautiful journey. And at the end of it, I find myself becoming nostalgic about the days I spent here. Before coming to Kashmir, I used to feel that the journey is tough only till I reach Srinagar. I was under the impression that once I start working, things would be easier. Of course, I had then too known that a different culture and the stereotypical image I had of Kashmir were bound to become problematic for me in the due course of time. But the challenges I faced here were of an unexpected kind. Torn between the love for one’s nation and the realities I was facing each day, I would often wonder where to devote my loyalties—for the “national interest” of my country or for the cause of the Kashmiris. At times, I would tell my folks back home in Delhi about the atrocities the Indian state has inflicted on the Kashmiris. They would get irritated listening to all this. Often, they would tell me that the situation is not the way I perceive it and the Army is required to protect the borders. I remember a couple of days ago, when I called up my brother to inform him about my return tickets, I said, “Bhai, I am coming back to India.” He waited for a few seconds before saying, “Shut up!” and banged the phone down. On the other hand, when I would accept that the Indian state has wronged Kashmiris, not all my Kashmiri companions would agree with the authenticity of my views. I found my genuineness questioned time and again, particularly by those in the professional circles. There would be times when I would be labelled as Indian pseudo Kashmiri-empathisers for my pro-Azadi stand. So, at the end of these two months, I can say that I am still holding on to my viewpoint; while simultaneously trying to make my folks back at home as well as my colleagues and friends in Kashmir believe that Indians too, can accept their mistakes, provided they are made aware regarding the ground realities. Indians love their country. All individuals do; there is nothing special in Indians about that. The problem is a bit different with us, particularly when it comes to the Kashmir issue. Brought up with strong feelings of nationalism and “Mera Bharat Mahan” kind of an ideology, most Indians, perhaps a very large number of them are blissfully unaware of the flaws their country is facing. Add to it the unobjective stand taken by the mainstream Indian media regarding Kashmir and the result is a mass of millions of Indians who conveniently stereotype all Kashmiris as “Jihadi” and “Terrorists”. Of course, one cannot just blame the media and the Indian state for all wrongs. The Indian citizens too are at a fault for this. It does not take one to be an Einstein or a Newton to realise a simple fact that 18 to 20 per cent of our union budget goes to Defence each year; despite the fact that more than 30 per cent of the Indians live below the poverty line. The hard earned money of the Indian taxpayers like my father is being regularly pumped into the valley to maintain the seven lakh troops in Kashmir; not to develop the infrastructure here. And even if we leave Kashmir alone, who is answerable for the underdevelopment of the rest of India? Just to preserve the inflated ego of the Indian state and maintain its unjustified holding on a foreign land, the basic rights of a large section of the Indian masses are being violated each day. A cursory glance at the union budget of the fiscal year 2005-06 provides a deep insight. While a total of Rs 83000 crores was allocated for the Defence outlay, a mere Rs 6425 crores was the revised budget estimate for Agriculture and allied activities. The fact that there were enormous farmer suicides in the latter half of 2006, following the above mentioned budget, is a bit too much for a coincidence. The government of Maharashtra admits to 1,447 farm suicides in 2006 alone. And that's in only six districts of Vidharbha. Interestingly, even after the reports of the farmer suicides hit the headlines, the budget outlay for Defence in the year 2006-07 was increased to Rs 89,000 crores. No doubt the Indian government has taken measures to integrate Kashmir with the mainland. Electricity in Kashmir is perhaps the cheapest as compared to the Indian States. The occasional medical camps organised by the Army for locals are another crucial aspect, even if they are aimed more at creating a favourable image of the Indian state than the philanthropic nature of the forces. Yet, all this can never hide the stains of the Kashmiri blood that colour the hands of the Indian troopers. In the two months that I stayed here, custodial killings, rapes, beatings and torture became an indispensable part of my professional life. Unfortunately, the figures have been shocking always when it comes to Kashmir. Reports received from various civil society observers suggest that from January 2009, till May this year, 49 human rights violation cases have been reported. 36 people died in various violence related activities, while 3 rape cases were reported. Besides, four cases of custodial killings and six cases of alleged enforced disappearances came to the forefront. Whether it was the crushing of ten-year-old Khushboo under an Army vehicle at Lasjan, or the death of sixteen-year-old Arif Ayub by a tear gas shell; whether it was the custodial killing of Manzoor Beig or the Shopian rape and murder case…the stories are all same. Only the names and faces change. I visited many families here who had lost their loved ones. Majority of the 400 students who stay in the Yateem Khana at Bemina crossing are children of this conflict. The eyes of 5 year old Adil, who lost his father after the last shell hit him before the Indo-Pak crossfire was declared, would haunt me forever. After having a glimpse into the lives of Kashmiris, it is difficult for any common Indian not to empathise with the Kashmiris. And I still go by my stand that provided all Indians are made aware about the ground realities prevailing in the valley; they would readily accept the wrongs their government inflicted here. I also assert that the Indian democracy is restricted till Lakhanpur. Beyond it, we have no democracy; only the oppression, a sham that the Indian state has beautifully engineered with the help of the mainstream media for its own vested interests in this region. Most importantly, I reaffirm my pro-Azadi stance. A lot of elderly people in Kashmir claim that Kashmir still has chances to integrate with the mainland. Many of them feel that the withdrawal of the draconian laws such as AFSPA is a major step towards this integration. However, the people of my father’s age- in Delhi as well as in Kashmir- have already played their innings. It is our time now. And being one of the youths of India, I can say that neither the youngsters in Kashmir nor in India are interested in prolonging this oppression. Of course, the precondition being making them aware about the ground realities here. (Sumegha Gulati is from Delhi) From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 2 03:25:30 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 03:25:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The schizo-politics of The Pirate Bay, Inc. (from Nettime) Message-ID: <02EF5346-EBBC-4EB7-AE11-7EF6202875CA@sarai.net> Dear all, many of us have been dedicated users of the treasures of the pirate bay. Now that situation is going to change. Or is it really? Read this intriguing post (posted recently on Nettime) to find out more, and wonder. regards, Shuddha The schizo-politics of The Pirate Bay, Inc. by Rasmus Fleischer Posted on Nettime, 1 July, 2009 ?YOU FUCKING CORPORATE SELL OUT RATS!? Users of The Pirate Bay are raging. About a thousand comments were posted at The Pirate Bay?s blog during the first day after the news, probably 90-95 % expressing sadness or anger over the supposed sell-out. Some mainstream commentators in Sweden, on the other hand, greeted this as a step towards the abandonment of digital piracy. We are used to imagine The Pirate Bay as a legendary entity fighting an epic battle, on behalf of the millions of file-sharers. However, it is not exactly a legendary entity that is being sold. It is something different. So what is about to be sold? ?The Pirate Bay? is today, among other things: * A domain name * A web site * An ad selling business * A blog * The world?s largest bittorrent tracker * A clothing store * Three persons * A swarm * A symbol ?The Pirate Bay? must be defined as an assemblage. Any of the listed parts would, on its own, be powerless. Only through its connections, the assemblage becomes so powerful. However, all the parts are not needed all the time. Two are enough to make up the practice of bittorrent file- sharing: a swarm of file-sharers, and a tracker to connect them. Many file-sharers are using The Pirate Bay?s tracker services without even visiting the website. Other indexing websites, like Mininova, are using The Pirate Bay?s tracker. Technically speaking, The Pirate Bay?s website has always been rather redundant. But the website is a platform for connecting two other parts: The commercial part of the ads, which are needed to finance the large costs for bandwidth and hardware, and the political part of linking to current side-projects and publishing sporadic blog posts. This assemblage is now being disassembled and reassembled, in one way or another. That means something else than a ?sell-out? of all the parts. All the details of the affair are not clear yet, but to clear up the picture, we should first consider each part for itself, and ask three simple questions: 1) Is it ownable?; 2) Is it sellable?; 3) Is it copyable? * The domain name, www.thepiratebay.org, is definitely part of the affair. It is ownable and sellable, but not copyable given the current DNS regime. The web site that the visitor of the domain is directed to could be said to be ownable, in the sense that any new owner can change its contents. But it is also copyable, meaning that the ?original? version can pop up again at another domain name. Actually, it is very simple to copy. You can fit all of The Pirate Bay, including the software and every torrent, on a USB stick. * The ads have a value only as long as people visit the web site (and do not know how to use Adblock). The blog derives its meaning from the personal activity of the three persons involved, and could be hosted anywhere. * The three persons (Peter Sunde, Fredrik Neij, Gottfrid Svartholm Warg) are especially interesting, as they can definitely not be copied. But can they be owned and sold? Yes, theoretically. In earlier cases of ?P2P sell- out?, individuals have signed contracts regulating their future involvements in other projects. This is not the case here. The trio is free to do what they want, including political activism and even exact copies of The Pirate Bay. * The tracker consists of hardware and (open source) software, possible to copy but not to uphold without financing. This part will not be part of the incorporation. Instead of being sold, the tracker service will be transferred to a separate entity, that provides the service freely to any index wanting to use it, and supposedly does not even have the information about files it is tracking. This essentially would mean a small step towards decentralisation of the file-sharing infrastructure. It probably also undermines the whole case the prosecutor made against The Pirate Bay in court. Questions about the financing of and control over this new third party tracker remains to be answered. However, it should not be assumed that control goes to the buyers of ?The Pirate Bay?. * The swarm of millions of file-sharing humans and machines can not be owned, nor sold, nor copied. It can, indeed, be fooled. Usually, that? s what cases of ?P2P sell-out? aims for, without much success. This time chances are even smaller that the swarm would keep using a service if it began to filter torrents or demand money for downloads. The Pirate Bay?s tradition of strong principles have educated people to be wary even of small restrictions. If such would occur, the swarm is ready to move on. However, nothing at this point (except some vague formulations in a press release from the buying company) indicates that there are any such plans. * The (visual and ideological) symbol ?The Pirate Bay?, finally, is fundamentally transformed by the act of selling ?The Pirate Bay?. It does not really mean that the symbol can be sold. Rather, any attempt by the owner of the domain name to change what the symbol stands for, would mean that the symbol is dissolving and its associations re-projected at multiple other symbols. This could have quite interesting results. Even if The Pirate Bay and its associated projects have been able to use the power of one singular symbol, there has also been an awareness of the problem with The Pirate Bay?s oligopolic status. File-sharing was never about leaning behind and letting other people do the work. The act of selling ?The Pirate Bay? (which really means selling some of the components in a larger assemblage) could work as a wake-up call. Ideally, the anger of some users will transform into action, so that more open bittorrent indexing website, maybe even trackers, will be set up. That would mean that The Pirate Bay, finally and paradoxically, reaches its goal, which is to be copied. The Pirate Bay never asked to be the sole representatives of file-sharing. When large parts of the world?s internet traffic depends on whether Fredrik is too drunk to fix a server error, a radical diversification is needed to maintaing the power of P2P file-sharing. Dissolving the centered subject, abandoning a trademark to multiply what it stands for. That?s the implicit schizo-politics of The Pirate Bay?s recent move. RASMUS FLEISCHER (Me = co-founder of Piratbyr?n. Cooperating with, but not involved in, The Pirate Bay. No financial connection whatsoever with the current incorporation plans.) PS. Also read Jonas Andersson?s great analysis: http://liquidculture.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/the-pirate-bay-two- important-speculations/ ?YOU FUCKING CORPORATE SELL OUT RATS!? Users of The Pirate Bay are raging. About a thousand comments were posted at The Pirate Bay?s blog during the first day after the news, probably 90-95 % expressing sadness or anger over the supposed sell-out. Some mainstream commentators in Sweden, on the other hand, greeted this as a step towards the abandonment of digital piracy. We are used to imagine The Pirate Bay as a legendary entity fighting an epic battle, on behalf of the millions of file-sharers. However, it is not exactly a legendary entity that is being sold. It is something different. So what is about to be sold? ?The Pirate Bay? is today, among other things: * A domain name * A web site * An ad selling business * A blog * The world?s largest bittorrent tracker * A clothing store * Three persons * A swarm * A symbol ?The Pirate Bay? must be defined as an assemblage. Any of the listed parts would, on its own, be powerless. Only through its connections, the assemblage becomes so powerful. However, all the parts are not needed all the time. Two are enough to make up the practice of bittorrent file- sharing: a swarm of file-sharers, and a tracker to connect them. Many file-sharers are using The Pirate Bay?s tracker services without even visiting the website. Other indexing websites, like Mininova, are using The Pirate Bay?s tracker. Technically speaking, The Pirate Bay?s website has always been rather redundant. But the website is a platform for connecting two other parts: The commercial part of the ads, which are needed to finance the large costs for bandwidth and hardware, and the political part of linking to current side-projects and publishing sporadic blog posts. This assemblage is now being disassembled and reassembled, in one way or another. That means something else than a ?sell-out? of all the parts. All the details of the affair are not clear yet, but to clear up the picture, we should first consider each part for itself, and ask three simple questions: 1) Is it ownable?; 2) Is it sellable?; 3) Is it copyable? * The domain name, www.thepiratebay.org, is definitely part of the affair. It is ownable and sellable, but not copyable given the current DNS regime. The web site that the visitor of the domain is directed to could be said to be ownable, in the sense that any new owner can change its contents. But it is also copyable, meaning that the ?original? version can pop up again at another domain name. Actually, it is very simple to copy. You can fit all of The Pirate Bay, including the software and every torrent, on a USB stick. * The ads have a value only as long as people visit the web site (and do not know how to use Adblock). The blog derives its meaning from the personal activity of the three persons involved, and could be hosted anywhere. * The three persons (Peter Sunde, Fredrik Neij, Gottfrid Svartholm Warg) are especially interesting, as they can definitely not be copied. But can they be owned and sold? Yes, theoretically. In earlier cases of ?P2P sell- out?, individuals have signed contracts regulating their future involvements in other projects. This is not the case here. The trio is free to do what they want, including political activism and even exact copies of The Pirate Bay. * The tracker consists of hardware and (open source) software, possible to copy but not to uphold without financing. This part will not be part of the incorporation. Instead of being sold, the tracker service will be transferred to a separate entity, that provides the service freely to any index wanting to use it, and supposedly does not even have the information about files it is tracking. This essentially would mean a small step towards decentralisation of the file-sharing infrastructure. It probably also undermines the whole case the prosecutor made against The Pirate Bay in court. Questions about the financing of and control over this new third party tracker remains to be answered. However, it should not be assumed that control goes to the buyers of ?The Pirate Bay?. * The swarm of millions of file-sharing humans and machines can not be owned, nor sold, nor copied. It can, indeed, be fooled. Usually, that? s what cases of ?P2P sell-out? aims for, without much success. This time chances are even smaller that the swarm would keep using a service if it began to filter torrents or demand money for downloads. The Pirate Bay?s tradition of strong principles have educated people to be wary even of small restrictions. If such would occur, the swarm is ready to move on. However, nothing at this point (except some vague formulations in a press release from the buying company) indicates that there are any such plans. * The (visual and ideological) symbol ?The Pirate Bay?, finally, is fundamentally transformed by the act of selling ?The Pirate Bay?. It does not really mean that the symbol can be sold. Rather, any attempt by the owner of the domain name to change what the symbol stands for, would mean that the symbol is dissolving and its associations re-projected at multiple other symbols. This could have quite interesting results. Even if The Pirate Bay and its associated projects have been able to use the power of one singular symbol, there has also been an awareness of the problem with The Pirate Bay?s oligopolic status. File-sharing was never about leaning behind and letting other people do the work. The act of selling ?The Pirate Bay? (which really means selling some of the components in a larger assemblage) could work as a wake-up call. Ideally, the anger of some users will transform into action, so that more open bittorrent indexing website, maybe even trackers, will be set up. That would mean that The Pirate Bay, finally and paradoxically, reaches its goal, which is to be copied. The Pirate Bay never asked to be the sole representatives of file-sharing. When large parts of the world?s internet traffic depends on whether Fredrik is too drunk to fix a server error, a radical diversification is needed to maintaing the power of P2P file-sharing. Dissolving the centered subject, abandoning a trademark to multiply what it stands for. That?s the implicit schizo-politics of The Pirate Bay?s recent move. RASMUS FLEISCHER (Me = co-founder of Piratbyr?n. Cooperating with, but not involved in, The Pirate Bay. No financial connection whatsoever with the current incorporation plans.) PS. Also read Jonas Andersson?s great analysis: http://liquidculture.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/the-pirate-bay-two- important-speculations/ Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 09:47:53 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:47:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lest we forget - MASSACRE OF KASHMIRI PANDITS - Part 1 of 3 Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907012117na2784f2le9cc291131bf8b25@mail.gmail.com> MASSACRE OF KASHMIRI PANDITS (PART 1 of 3) The Muslim terrorists operating under multiple forms of incarnations like Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, Muslim Janbaz Force, Ul Umur, Al Burq, Hizbul Mujahideen, Al Jehad, Ikhwan-ul-Muslim et al sharing visceral hatred against Kashmiri Pandits subjected them to intimidation, panic, rape, murder and sexual assault with a view to exterminating them from the soil of Kashmir. In sheer violation of universally accepted charter of rights and law as couched in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other international covenants the terrorists debased, dehumanised and brutalised the cultured and moderate community of Kashmiri Pandits by destructing and killing them in a punitive war. In heaping death and destruction on them, the terrorists pursue the objective of dismemberment of the state from the Indian liberal democratic order for a new political alignment based on religion. Terror was created and violence propagated to obliterate dissent and opposition to the formulated goals of the terrorists. The elements that were deemed inimical to the terrorist campaign have been liquidated with impunity and subjected to an untold orgy of Nazi-type torture and persecution. Waves of communalism have been fanned and fuelled thereby polarising the Kashmiri society for furtherance of political ends. The Kashmiri Pandits as a distinct ethno-religious group have been under a conspiracy targetted, maimed and butchered in groups and put to detestable forms of violence and brutality to destruct the Indian support planks to materialist the secessionist goal thus flagrantly violating and transgressing their inherent political rights and freedoms. As an indoctrinated breed churned out from the Muslim seminaries of hate, fanaticism and religious bigotry the Muslim terrorists launched an all-out religious crusade against the non-Muslim ethnic groups directed to the end product of establishing an Islamic state placed on the foot stool of Shariat (Islamic Law) which reduces the ethnic and religious minorities to the exiles of a gulag deprived of human rights and human dignity. They through the dynamics of a religious war are in the quest of pan-Islamic theme and vision of ascendancy of Islam and the sociopolitical system bearing its seal and sanction at the expense of religion and faith espoused by minority groups and subgroups. The militarized Islam is not chasing political goals alone but is rivetting its sights on religious objectives too. The forcible imposition of a particular religion along with its socio-political order on an ethnic minority harbouring its own set of beliefs and forms of worship is violative of human rights and essential freedoms that flow from them. With the shared ideology and agenda of thrusting a second partition on India and transforming the state of Jammu and Kashmir into an Islamic state, the Muslim terrorists have lost no time in spotting their political and religious enemies in the Hindu minorities especially the Kashmiri Pandits. Politically the Kashmiri Pandits repose full faith in and are unflinching supporters of the secular polity of India and as such do not subscribe to any trend of thought and wave of movement aiming at snapping the historical, cultural and political ties of the state with indict. It is pertinent to put that they have made no mean contributions to the dynamics of growth, development and consolidation of democratic and secular order and political and economic humanism allied with it and as a patriotic force have bitterly opposed the constitutional barriers which have generated the vicious and baneful forces of separatism and fundamentalism in Kashmir. In matters of religion the Pandits with the chequered history of torture and persecution at the hands of Muslims have rejected the antediluvian tendencies breeding religious perversion and paranoia and are wedded to the Indian discourse of allowance for tolerance and non-conformity and stand for full flow of freedom for every individual to preach and practice his religion. They have not only mocked at but held in utter contempt the Islamic police enforcing codes and fatwas (religious decrees). The Kashmiri Pandits have vigorously fought the secessionist forces seeking the placement of Jammu and Kashmir outside the political and constitutional umbrella of India. They fought the Plebiscite Front which as an organisaistion strove for and was pledged to the secession of the state for its emergence as the personal fiefdom of the Sheikh dynasty. After the Plebiscite Front as a result of political developments was deemed to have lost its political relevance and was disbanded, the condemnation of Pandits and hateful thrust against them did not come to end and as always they were maligned and projected as the enemies of the Muslim secessionist goals and ambitions. They were abhorred and projected as the "sworn enemies" and concerted efforts were set afoot to marginalise them for the fact that they stood for the fuller merger and integration of the state with the Union of India. The Muslim identity of Kashmir to the exclusion of diverse ethno-religious minorities as an essential cog in the processes of total Islamisation pursued at state level was exposed to the shreds by the Pandit minority. That is why they have been branded as the inveterate enemies of Muslim identity which is being perceived under constant threat from India harbouring a Muslim population equivalent to that of Pakistan. With their well-known positions on politics and religion the Kashmiri Pandits as such have been opposed to any movement for Kashmir's annexation with Pakistan and are equally inimical to the retrograde Muslim programme of pushing the state into the lap of rabid fundamentalism and they, therefore, as a resisting force were mercilessly massacred and eliminated in hundreds. Some of the killed were engineers while some held positions in administrative setup. Some victims of genocide were teachers with remarkable achievements in the domain of learning and creative thinking while some pursued legal profession. A Hindu scientist who was brutalised to death had a number of research papers to his credit while another was a highbrow intellectual with enormous studies in the realms of philosophy. Some of the killed ran groceries while others held ordinary jobs hardly making two ends meet. Even a mad person was not spared. Most of the victims to the Muslim massacre were innocent and peace-loving people who had lived in penury and had been denied opportunities under the policy of discrimination which was institutionalised by a system dominated by the Muslims. As a weak and unarmed religio-ethnic group the Muslim terrorists put them to a mass massacre and had their not been prompted by their "race-memory", a repertoire of past history of their persecution, to buzz off their natural habitat, the terrorists, wildly frenzied and bent upon their destruction and decimation, would have finished them off as a species. Terror was created through threats, bomb-blasts, rumours and apochryphal allegations and the terror machine was so endemic that every man, woman and child became vulnerable. No Pandit felt safe from the penumbra of violence and terror. Kashmir for the hapless Hindus was reduced to a killing field which was prowled about by communal and terrorist hyenas. It was not only in violation of the canons of ethics and morality that Kashmiri Pandits as a miniscule minority were cruelly killed and tortured but also in utter disregard of decent and civilised political deporment recognised by the Charter of Human Rights Declaration and several other international agreements. The killings were monstrous and barbaric paling the killings of Jews by the Nazis into a triviality. The Pandits were abducted front homes, work-places or streets and tortured and killed to the brutal ecstasy of their tormentors. The terrorists butchered them even in their homes in the presence of their defenceless and hapless inmates. Labelling them as "informers" and "agents of India", they were killed in large numbers without any considerations of age, vocation and political commitments. It is a genocide of Hindus for the political commitments that they harboured and the religion that they espoused. As members of a community with a tremendous history in time they have been bodily and mentally harmed and injured and conditions have been created to bring about their death and destruction. The terrorists have not concealed their first resolve to destroy the Kashmiri Pandits not only as political opponents but also as religious enemies. They have generated tremendous mass support for the genocide of Pandits through the Mosque Committees, plethora of Islamic organizations and Quranic Schools run by the Jamaat-i-lslami. The horrendous torture deaths brought about by a resort to barbaric methods will cause a shiver down the spine of the worst Hitlerites. Burning cigarettes were applied to the naked bodies of Kashmiri Pandits. Boiling wax was poured on highly sensitive parts of their bodies. Nails were driven into their foreheads. Their eye-balls were gouged out and tongues chopped off. Male genitals were cut off. Private parts and breasts of women were hewn open. Women were ripped into two equal parts on a wood-slicing machine. Gangrapes were resorted to. Bellies were ripped open for entrails to spill out. Hairs from the heads were plucked out. They were hanged and bullets pumped into their bodies. Kidneys were extracted from the victims and offered to their parents to chew them at pain of death. Brains were hammered. All barbaric. Torture deaths have been brought about by the following cruel and savage practices: 1. Hanging 2. Burning alive 3. Strangulation by steel wires 4. Draining of blood in hospitals 5. Drowning alive 6. Beating to death 7. Dragging to death 8. Breaking of body parts 9. Dismemberment of body 10. Slicing 11. Fleecing 12. Gouging of eye balls 13. Branding with red-hot iron bars 14. Impaling 15. Slaughter In absence of government computations about the killings of Kashmiri Pandits, Sikhs and other Hindus, private agencies and non-government organizations have put the number of Hindus of all shades who have been killed at 2,500 out of which Kashmiri Pandits stand out with a figure of eighteen hundred and odd. The Report submitted to the National Human Rights Commission by PKM has put the figures of killed Pandits at 319 till October, 1990. B.N. Nissar, editor of the Kashyapvani, has issued out a list of 765 Kashmiri Pandits who were brutally massacred. As per him twenty two ladies were raped and killed, sixty-six males were kidnapped and released which included Vijay Koul, director of the Regional Institute of Science and Technology and Dr. A.K. Dhar, director of the Regional Research Laboratory, eighteen were hanged to death, twenty-five ladies were raped and let off, eight were strangulated, hundred twenty- four were kidnapped and killed and sixty were critically wounded and died for want of media laid. No fewer than fifty seven sikhs have been killed. It is said that many a mass massacre of Kashmiri Pandits of Sangrampora dimension was suppressed and not leaked to the press under the instuructions of the then Home Minister of India. The following persons belonging to the minority community of Hindus especially the Kashmiri Pandits as infidels have been tortured and killed by the methods mentioned above : Tika Lal Taploo Name: Tika Lal Taploo Fathers Name: Pandit Nand Lal Taphoo Date of Birth: 6th Oct, 1927 Date of Assassination: 14th September,1989 Residence: Chinkral Mohalla, Habba Kadal, Srinagar Survived by Wife (50), Sons (24, 21), Daughter (27) Tika Lal Taploo was a lawyer by profession and had been in politics for long. He had fought electicons to the J&K Legislative Assembly a number of times but could not make it to the Assembly because of the jerrymandering of the Assembly segment he would usually tight elections from. He enjoyed immense popularity as a social and political activist. He was put to bullets by the armed killers of JKLF. His assassination came as a shock to large sections of Kashmiri population. His funeral procession was stoned by the Muslim rebids and was attended among others by Kedar Nath Sahni and L. K. Advani as he was the Vice President of the J&K Unit of Bhartiya Janata Party. The Muslims downed the shutters of their shops as a mark of respect to the martyr, but they had to re-open their shops when issued commands not to mourn the death of a Kafir. Nila Kanth Ganjoo Name: Nila Kanth Ganjoo Father's Name: Mahadev Ganjoo Date of Assassination: 4th October,1989 Residence: Karan Nagar, Srinagar Survived by wife (70), sons (51,49), daughter (55) Nila Kanth Ganjoo was an ax-Sessions Judge with lots of legal acumen. He had emerged as a detestable person for the Muslim secessionists as and when he heard the case of Maqbool Butt who was accused of murder of an intelligence officer, Amar Chand and on the basis of the evidence collected and deposed in the case had ordered the execution of the accused. The accused had gone in appeal against his judgment, but the death sentence was upheld even by the apex court. Ganjoo lived under constant threat of life. His house was raided and bombed umpteen times and the government had set up a police post at his house. With the rise of militarised Islam in Kashmir he was put to bullets on a busy road in Srinagar in broad daylight by the JKLF assassins. His body lying in a pool of blood was not even covered. Police prevaricated to arrive on the scene. Killers had left a note on his body warning anyone against picking it up. Ganjoo was killed in cold blood because he was a Kashmiri Pandit. The twenty-two witnesses who had recorded their evidence in the case were all Muslims and they were not murdered or even hurt. Instead they were amnestyed. The Justice of the High court who had heard the appeal in the case was also a Muslim. He was not killed for upholding the decision of the Sessions Court. Abdul Gani Lone, said to be a corrupt stooge of some foreign powers, is believed to be behind all the raids and bombing attacks on his residence. Sarwanand Koul "Premi",  Virendra Koul Sarwanand Koul "Premi" Virendra Koul Name: Sarwanand Koul "Premi" and Virendra Koul Father's Name: Gopi Nath Koul Date of Birth: 9.6.1926/4.5.1962 Date of Assassination: 30.4.1990 Residence: Sofshalli, Anantnag Survived by wife (60), son (35), daughter (26) "Premi" was a poet and scholar. He stuck to his hamlet despite the rise in terrorism. He had the psyche of a teacher in believing that he would withstand the Islamic hurricane as he had taught every dog in and around the belts of his village and hence could not be so ungrateful as to bite him to death. But things proved otherwise. The Muslim terrorists entered his house on 28th April, 1990 and ordered all the members of his family to get collected in one room alongwith the ornaments and moneys, shawls and precious clothes. Whatever precious they had in their home was offered to the killers-curn-looters. The ornaments that the ladies were putting on were also cruelly snatched. Stuffing their booties in one suitcase Premi was ordered to carry it and follow them for a word just a small distance away from his house. The members of his family wailed and moaned. The killers assured them that he would return safe and unharmed. His son insisted upon accompanying his old father. "If you wish, you may also accompany him", said the killers. The treatment that was meted out to the father and his son can shame even the worst Muslim tyrants. The spot where Premi would put his tilak mark was nailed. He was tortured by burning bits of cigarettes. The limbs of his body were broken. His eyes were gouged out. He was hanged from a tree and bullets were fired on him. His son was put to the same orgy of torture and death. Bansi Lal Sapru Name: Bansi Lal Sapru Father's Name: Keshav Nath Sapru Date of Birth: 30.2.1945 Date of Assassination: 24.4.1990 Residence: Gulab Bagh, Srinagar Survived by wife (37), Sons (16 and 13) He was accosted at the gate of his house by some neighbours and was carried along into his own orchard for a word. Three shots were pumped into him from close range. One shot struck his head. He fell dead and was found wallowing in his own pool of blood. His family screamed in pain and agony but nobody came even to console them. Radha Krishen Kaw Name: Radha Krishen Kaw Father's Name: Balbhadher Kaw Date of Birth: 18.5.1931 Date of Assassination: 24.8.1990 Residence: Kralkhud, Srinagar Survived by wife (54), mother (75), daughter (35), son (3) He was a veteran teacher and had retired as a Tehsil Education Officer. He all through his career had taught thousands of Muslim scholars and was busy in the teaching processes even after his retirement. The Muslim assassins entered the school where he was teaching a class and forcibly took him out from the back door of the school and sprayed him over with bullets. He was said to be massacred by the JKLF murderers. Ashwani Kumar Garyali Name: Ashwani Kumar Garyali Father's Name: Shamboo Nath Garyali Date of Birth: 23.4.1965 Date of Assassination: 24.6.1990 Residence: Chattabal, Srinagar Survived by father (70), mother (60), brother (26), sister (22) He was a bright and budding boy and was doing chartered accountancy. Five masked menaffiliated with JKLF entered his room where he was studying and blamed him for being an informer. They carried him down to the first floor of his own residence and pumped five bullets into his head and abdomen. He was immediately rushed to SMHS Hospital, Srinagar for surgery. The doctors refused to admit him. He was carried to the Institute of Medical Sciences, Soura where doctors did not bother to attend on him and allowed him to die. He was sent to the Jawahar Lal Nehru Memorial Hospital, Rainawari for post-mortem where his relatives allege that they had to wait for hours on end and were asked to pay money for the routine. His parents strongly believe that had he been operated upon in SMHS Hospital in time he would have survived the trauma. Garyali's father weeping and wailing had rushed to the local police station for a vehicle to carry him to hospital. The SHO, a Muslim, avoided and the poor father went on begging him for a vehicle. He severely taunted the Pandit, who, perhaps, did not realise that he was relishing his distress to the last dregs of it. Mrs. Sheela Koul (Tiku) Name: Sheela Koul (Tiku) Husband's Name: Pran Nath Tiku Date of Birth: December 1942, Date of Assassination: 31.10.1989 Residence: Dalhasanyar, Srinagar She was genial tempered house-wife looking after her family with love and affection. On the fateful day she had gone to see her brother at Shivapora, Srinagar. While returning home at dusk she was put to bullets at Habbakadal bridge. She was brought home on a hand-cart as three-wheelers suddenly stopped plying on the route. The taxi-wallahs on road refused to carry her to the hospital. Despite repeated phone calls to the SMHS Hospital, Srinagar, the ambulance failed to arrive. She was carried to the hospital on a folding bed where she was left unattended. She vas shot in the chest and had a head injury. The JKLF terrorists are said to be her killers. Pushker Nath Razdan Name: Pushker Nath Razdan Father's Name: Tika Lal Razdan Date of Birth: 18.3.1943 Date of Assassination: 12.10.1990 Residence: Khonmuha, Pulwama Survived by wife (43), sons (23,20), daughter (16) Some terrorists under masks barged into his house at 9 in the night and straightaway knocked him down and dragged him out. He was shot at the left side of his chest. His wife and others in the family wept and wailed, but nobody came to their rescue. Ultimately he was carried to the Army Hospital at Badami Bagh in Srinagar where he was operated upon. He failed to survive the fatal wounds even after surgery. The policemen from the Pantachauk Police-Station arrived on the scene after he was cremated. He was allegedly killed by the Hizbul Mujjahideen hounds. Prem Nath Bhat Name: Prem Nath Bhat Father's Name: Laxman Ji Bhat Date of Birth: 5.12.1932 Date of Assassination: 27.12.1989 Residence: Anantnag Survived by wife (52), sons (42,38), daughter (31) He was a prominent lawyer enjoying immense popularity and confidence of all communities. Having attended the court for the day he was returning to his home when the Muslim terrorists pumped bullets straight into his head. Muslims in the neighbourhood of the lane where he was murdered in cold blood sadistically chuckled and whispered, "Another is felled." Though popular with the Muslims nobody even offered condolences on his brutal killing. Instead it was hailed as a tremendous triumph of Islam and Nizam-e-Mustafa. He was a superb writer, orator and above all a nationalist with visions of India resurrected and reconstructed on the cultural and spiritual heritage of India. As an ardent votary of unity in diversity he opposed all barriers of segregation built by communal, casteist and obscurantist forces. He unflinchingly stood for positive ideololgy of national integrity which he was pained to see wilting under the leadership of forces self-serving and with infirn1 commitments. The religious rites required to be performed on the tenth day could not be performed. All Kashmiri Pandits were scared, frightened and terrorised and the administration deliberately posed to be in deep coma. Despite curfew the terrorists disrupted the last rites on tenth day and planted a bomb in the courtyard of the house during the period of mourning. The family was forced to migrate to Jammu in view of threats doled out to it. A JKLF hound, Manzoor-ul-Islam, is facing trial for his murder. Makhan Lal Raina Name: Makhan Lal Raina Father's Name: Gopi Nath Raina Date of Birth: 23.3.1938 Date of Assassination: 22.6.1990 Residence: Kharyar, Srinagar Survived by wife (42), daughter (22), son (20), father (80), mother (68) He was a medical assistant posted at the dispensary at Khan Sahib in Badgam. He was quite popular with the local Muslims for the services he would be rendering them. He was picked up from the dispensary itself in presence of nine Muslims. Nobody came to his rescue. He was brutally tortured and finally shot dead. His dead body was said to have been chopped and hurled away and finally recovecred from Dardpora in Badgam. He is allegedly killed by the JKLF murderers. Chand Ji Kher Name: Chand Ji Kher Father's Name: Dina Nath Kher Date of Birth: 2.3.1972 Date of Assassination: 17.7.1990 Residence: Vessu, Anantnag Survived by mother (55), sister (35) He was a young boy in his teens. He was called out by his Muslim friends who shot at him and buzzed off the scene. He was poor and indigent and had returned to his native hamlet for sale of his bits of property. He had nothing to fall back upon except a stretch of land that had helped him to eke out his existence. Hard pressed by poverty he went back from Jammu to Vessu where the Muslim killers snatched his life. Raj Nath Dhar Name: Raj Nath Dhar Father's Name: Dina Nath Dhar Date of Birth: 7.8.1931 Date of Assassination: 30.6.1990 Residence: Qutub-ub-din pore, Alikadal, Srinagar Survived by mother (70), sister (40), brother (32) He was a retired person in his fifties. Some terrorists entered his house and fired at him. His old and ailing mother cried and screamed for assistance, but nobody turned up to comfort her in grief and depression. He was shifted to SMHS Hospital, Srinagar where he died for want of proper care and aid. Zinda Lal Pandita Name: Zinda Lal Pandita Father's Name: Prakash Ram Pandita Date of Birth: 4.4.1931 Date of Assassination: 6.10.1990 Residence: Bagatpora, Handwara Survived by wife (50), son (30) He was kidnapped from his residence and strangulated with steel wires in an orchard and was said to be the handiwork of JKLF murderers. Jagar Nath Pandita Name: Jagar Nath Pandita Father's Name: Ganesh Das Pandita Date of Birth: 17.11.1943 Date of Assassination: 7.10.1990 Residence: Bagatpora, Handwara Survived by mother (62), sons (23 and 20) He was a widower and was kidnapped from his house and taken to the thick grooves of his own orchard where he was strangulated with steel wires. His killing took place during the intervening night of 7th and 8th October, 199(). Omkar Nath Wali Name: Omkar Nath Wali Father's Name: Parmanand Wali Date of Birth: 4.5.1935 Date of Assassination: 2.1.1991 Residence: Chak-i-Rajwati, Vessu, Anantnag Survived by wife (50), son (28), daughters (24 and 22) He was an assistant sub-inspector of police posted at District Police Lines, Anantnag. His family was in Jammu when he was kidnapped and shot dead. No last rites were performed. No FIR was filed. It is alleged that his own colleagues in the Police Lines were responsible for his murder by being hand in glove with the JKLF hounds. His killing needs an enquiry. Kanya Lal Peshin Name: Kanya Lal Peshin Father's Name: Kanth Ram Peshin Date of Birth: 4.10.1937 Date of Assassination: 18/19.10.1991 Residence: Pazalpora, Bandipora Survived by wife (48), sons (24 and 18), daughter (16) He was a poor farmer and was kidnapped from his house at 9 in the night. He was taken 3 kilometres away from his own village and was brutally tortured. It is said that pins were driven into his nails and more than one metre of cloth was stuffed into his mouth to stifle him to death. His dead body was found at Ajar, Bandipora. He was said to have been killed by the assassins of Hizbul Mujahideen. Gopi Nath Raina Name: Gopi Nath Raina Father's Name: Govind Ram Raina Date of Birth: 1.1.1941 Date of Assassination: 7.7.1990 Residence: Manigam, Ganderbal Sunrived by wife (45), daughters (28,20,l7,l5,l2) He was running a medical shop at Kangan and being a Pandit was suspected of having the credentials of an informer, an alibi to kill him. It was in his own shop that he was put to bullets. His brutal murder was owned by Hizbul Mujahideen through the Kashmir Times and the Aftab two dailies published from Jammu and Srinagar respectively. Ashok Kumar Bazaz Name: Ashok Kumar Bazaz Father's Name: Ram Joo Bazaz Date of Birth: Date of Assassination: Residence: Baghi Sunder Balla Chattabal Survived by wife and seven daughters (19,16,13,11,7,5,3) .He was in his thirties whenhe was shot dead by the Muslim terrorists. He was a petty shop-keeper dealing in groceries. He was accused of being an informer and an agent of India. As the father of seven daughters he should have been spared and shown compassion. But the terrorists emptied of such human empathies and values and thus reduced to the level of barbarity killed him in cold blood The poor and miserable wife of the deceased asked the Muslim killers to massacre the whole family as their breadearner had been snatched from them. She was told that they were spared to weep and wail and atone for the sins of having carried Kashmir to the fold of India. Attar Singh Name: Attar Singh Father's Name: Fateh Singh Date of Birth: 11.4.1929 Date of Assassination: 26.7.1990 Residence: Saimnoo, Kulagam Survived by sons (36,30,20), daughters (28,26) He was an ex-serviceman. He was suspected of being an informer. He was employed at the branch office of the Hindustan Petroleum in Pulwama. After his duty hours he was returning home and the armed Muslim gangsters shot him dead. No Sikh-Muslim terrorist pact could save him. When informed of the killing, Samranjit Singh Mann was said to have felt sorry for the failure of the unholy pact that he had forged with the Muslim killers. Maheshwar Nath Bhat Name: Maheshwar Nath Bhat Father's Name: Zana Bhat Date of Birth: 20.6.1921 Date of Assassination: 15.10.1990 Residence: Hazuri Bagh, Srinagar Survived by wife (65), son (35), daughters (30,27,24) It was exactly at 8 in the morning that the Muslim killers numbering three forcibly barged into his house and started making enquiries about his son-in-law, an officer in the Department of Forests. They were told that he had migrated to Jammu much earlier and the fact of the matter was that he had returned to join his office on promotion as ACF at the behest and on the assurances of his Muslim colleagues with whom he had maintained close contacts. During the period of enquiries his son-in-law hid himself in a bath-room which he had bolted. Frustrated at not getting the prize catch the Muslim killers opened a volley of fire killing Maheshwar Nath on the spot, injuring his old and ailing wife who in a state of unconsciousness was hospitalised at Badami Bagh where she was given treatment and shifted to Jammu under security cover. His relation was also admitted to the same hospital where he succumbed to his bullet wounds. Shiban Kishen Koul Name: Shiban Kishen Koul Fathers Name: Radha Krishen Koul Date of Birth: 13.5.1953 Date of Assassination: 15/16.7.1990 Residence: Ashmuji, Kulgam, Anantnag Survived by wife (35), mother (55), son (15), daughter (13) He was a primary school teacher teaching Muslim learners with all his dedication. But he was a threat to Islam and hence was slaughtered on the uneven and pot-holed paths of his native hamlet. His father was also slaughtered the next day. His assassins were his neighbours whom he might have taught the first alphabets. This was how he was recompensed by the Muslim ungratefuls. Dilip Kumar Name: Dilip Kumar Father's Name: Mohan Lal Date of Birth: 8.7.1962 Date of Assassination: 19.5.1990 Residence: Mujamarag, Shopian Pulwama Survived by mother (55), brothers (26,18,15) He was un-employed and unmarried too. His father had died long back and the responsibility of the family and its management was on his green shoulders. He possessed a bit of ancestral land and looked after it to eke out an existence. But he was a Kafir and therefore could not be spared. The Muslim killers knocked at his door and as the atmosphere was surcharged with fear and panic his mother came out to tell the killers that Dilip was not home. But that would not break their bloody resolve. They waited outside the house for a while and ultimately broke open the door and dragged him out and carried him off as a prize catch. His mother beating her breast followed the killers who foul-mouthed the hapless lady. His brother rushed to the nearby police station for help, but no help came from that quarter. Dilip was extremely tortured. His dentures were hammered out and twelve bullets pumped into him and he was hung from a tree with a letter pinned on his chest. The letter said that any person who dared lift the body would be paid one lakh. His body was cremated by police. Manmohan Bachloo Name: Manmohan Bachloo Father's Name: Janki Nath Bachloo Date of Birth: 5.12.1963 Date of Assassination: 18.5.1990 Residence: Qazihama, Baramulla Survived by Father (67), mother (56), sisters (25,23,19) He was in his twenties and was posted at Karnah as a Postal Assistant in the Postal Department. He came to his native town on a holiday. His having left for Baramulla was conveyed through their accomplices to the Muslim killers who were waiting for his arrival. In fact one of the killers was said to be following him from Karnah itself. When he reached home, a killer called at his house and carried him along for a cup of tea at a tea-shop in the heart of Baramulla town. Unsuspecting Manmohan accompanied his Muslim friend with whom he had frisked and frolicked in his boyhood days. When he entered the tea shop, other killers waiting for him hit him with bullets. He died then and there only. It is a classical case of treachery practiced by the Muslim. Veer Ji Bhat Name: Veer Ji Bhat Father's Name: D.N.Bhat Date of Birth: 31.1.59 Date of Assassination: 13.5.1990 Residence: Nagam, Badgam Survived by wife (30), daughter (5), son (3), father (60), mother (58) He was a young man of bubbling spirits with a bright career He was employed as a Junior Engineer in the State Irrigation Department and was posted at Shopian. He was a social activist helping everyone in distress and difficulty. On the fateful day he was out in the market of his locality. He talked to his friends in his usual aplomb. Suddenly a bunch of hounds arrived in a car and sprayed a shower of bullets over him. Despite profuse bleeding he did not give in and caught hold of one of the killers. But his armed accomplices put bullets into him felling him in his own pool of blood. The killers ran off. It happened in presence of everybody. The Pandits totally scared bolted their doors and windows and the Muslim majority flaunted V-signs in all hilarity. He was carried to SMHS Hospital where a doctor operated upon him and declared him out of danger. But after half an hour a man from the theatre declared him dead. Removing the white cloth from his face his relatives found him snow white and that triggered the charge that the accomplices of the killers nestling the Hospital had drained out his blood. Ashok Kumar Name: Ashok Kumar Father's Name: Basker Nath Date of Birth: 2.5.1963 Date of Assassination: 13.5.1990 Residence: Pulwama Survived by father (55), mother (54), sisters (30 and 24) He was unemployed and unmarried too. He was kidnapped by the hounds of Hizbul Mujjahideen who were imparted first lessons in Muslim bigotry by the beard flaunting Ali Shah Gilani. His hands and feet were broken and was taken to the main crossing of the road. The hounds replicating Nadir Shah and Mohmmad Gori plucked out his eye-balls with iron rods in presence of hundreds of Muslims who here seen relishing the barbarity inflicted on a Kafir. Ultimately he was put to a barrage of bullets killing him in no time. Among the spectators there was a bard who sang "Islam is glorious and great." Ajay Kapoor Name: Ajay Kapoor Father's Name: Shiva Nath Kapoor Date of Birth: 16.7.1940 Date of Assassination: 1.12.1989 Residence: Old Postoffice, Sr. Gunj Srinagar Survived by wife (47), son (25), daughter (15) He was a God fearing businessman. His bright and genial looking countenance would be usually marked with a tilak. It was in his own locality where his family had been living from generations that he was showered a volley of bullets. Groaning and moaning he fell dead. It was a cold blooded murder. His dead body was not lifted for hours or end. Surinder Kumar Raina Name: Surinder Kumar Raina Father's Name: Jia Lal Raina Date of Birth: 19.3.1967 Date of Assassination: 2.5.1990 Residence: Tullamulla, Ganderbal Survived by sisters (35,21), brothers (27,14) He was in his twenties and an orphan. He was a lift-man in the Institute of Medical Sciences, Soura and was kidnapped while performing his duties. All Muslims present on the scene presented a spectacle of cheer and song. He was put to bullets on a road named after the legendary physician, Ali Jan, who despite his brilliance in the field of medicine allowed the Medical Institute, Soura to get transformed into a snake-pit of Muslim bigotry and fanaticism. Surinder Kumar Koul Name: Surinder Kumar Koul Father's Name: Som Nath Koul Date of Birth: 4.5.1971 Date of Assassination: 26.8.1991 Residence: Batagund, Handwara Survived by father (50), mother (45), brother (30), sister (33) The whole family had shifted to Jammu in the wake of Muslim terrorism. The young boy at the age of twenty, therefore, a green "horn, had received a call-letter for an interview for the post of a teacher for which he had applied when he was home. He is said to have been in contact with his Muslim friends who had encouraged him to return at least for the interview and assured him of full safety. Against the advice of his parents he left for Srinagar. When he de-boarded the bus at Srinagar, the same Muslim hounds who had assured him of safety kidnapped him. Putting him to detestable pains and agonies, he was finally put to bullets at Langet. What a treachery! Ravinder Kumar Pandita Name: Ravinder Kumar Pandita Father's Name: Nanak Chand Pandita Date of Birth: 4.10.1958 Date of Assassination: 25.4.1990 Residence: Mattan, Anantnag Survived by wife (30), mother (60), daughters (4,6,6(twins)) He was working in the Telecommunication Department on daily wages. He was poor and bereft and lived in absolute indigence. But he was Ravinder Kumar, therefore a Kafir and agent of India. While returning home from his work place, the Muslim terrorists lying in wait for him shot him from close range. He fell dead then and there and in utter glee the killers danced over his dead body and the murderous scene was witnessed by hundreds of Muslims who could be seen emptied of human compassion though taught as a religious value. Bushan Lal Koul Name: Bushan Lal Koul Father's Name: Shridhar Koul Date of Birth: 14.6.1948 Date of Asassination: 16.5.1990 Residence: Amnoo, Kulagam, Anantnag Survived by wife (37), son (19) He was a government employee. He was kidnapped and strangulated with steel wires. He was allegedly killed by the Hizbul Mujahideen hounds. D.P. Khazanchi Name: D.P. Khazanchi Father's Name: Damodar Khazmanchi Date of Birth: 6.10.1939 Date of Assassination: 6.10.90 Residence: Kaniya Kadal, Srinagar Survived by wife (48), son (22), daughter (18) He was a professor of Physics, a good teacher, cool, calm and soft spoken. But as ill-luck would have it he was lost to sanity. As he would be raving and loitering about, the Muslim killers pumped bullets into him killing him instantaneously. The militarised Muslim bigotry did not spare even an insane for the fact of his being a kafir and threat to Islam. Source: http://ikashmir.net/wailvalley/b2chap8a.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 09:49:09 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:49:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Seven Exoduses of Kashmiri Pandits Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907012119t31574b6ct349aae2b22b678be@mail.gmail.com> Details here: PDF download: http://ikashmir.net/exodus/doc/exodus.pdf Website: http://ikashmir.net/exodus/ Courtesy: Bhan Kamalnayan (Artist) BY PROF. K. L. BHAN Introduction So much has been sung of the marvellous and magnificent beauty of the physiography of Kashmir, 'Paradise on Earth' by saints and sages, philosophers and poets, mystics and bards, divines and emperors, historians and travelers from far and near, that I wish I could describe one hundredth of what they have sung. One must possess a born poets, powerful and refined sensibility, imagination and vision together with the boldness of his pen to be able to make attempt to sing of her charms with full-throated ease. The Valley of Kashmir lures all irresistibly. Those who have tramped across the globe have no hesitation in asserting that Kashmir is a land of peerless beauty on this planet. It excels the beauty of Switzerland. Bowl shaped with lofty mountains standing guard all around, cradled in the Himalayas, Kashmir has everything to gratify all the senses with thrilling experiences and to seekers of peace it gives a satisfaction that is much more solid and enduring than a thrill. With its salubrious climate that infuses health and heartiness into a sick-man, its bewitching, quite idyllic scenery, its arresting landscape, its snowcapped peaks from which flow perennially murmuring streams rivulets and sinuous rills and cataracts guttering, like glass, fit for angels to repose by its mists and clouds that rise sky wards like swirling smoke of incense, its remarkably exquisite dawns and day breaks and equally enjoyable dusky evenings, its ancient and mysterious all encompassing woods and evergreen forests that are home to a treasure of fauna and flora, its gorgeously colourful meadows, its warbling birds, its tranquil and placid blue lakes, bubbling springs, its sprawling orchards laden with tempting juicy sweet and delicious fruit, its pleasure gardens and grottos, its breezes that kiss gently and tenderly and a variety of other gifts of nature that beggar description, this happy and has been the chosen land of Gods and to which nature has been lavish in her bounty. A new comer here falls in love with it at first sight and cannot help being swept away by a feeling of rapture and unearthly joy. He stands and stares around in wonder. The magnetic beauty of the land draws him closer and closer and spell bound he saunters about and deeper the wonder grows and the more unwilling he becomes to part from it. The germ of his attitude and response to the surroundings is essentially the environment of unearthly peace, tranquility, calm and security. Here peace rains imperceptibly from heaven and settles in every nook and corner. Here peace descends from mountain tops and cliffs, emanates from deep woods and forests, exudes from gardens and orchards and finds retreats in every house and habitation and inhabitation. It gives a feeling of the uplift of the spirit where by a person merges and mingles with every thing around him and every thing becomes part of his being. No one escapes this spiritual feeling which is not a simple pleasure. No wonder, then, that this spirituality forms the woof and web of more than five thousand years old culture of Kashmir. This abode of peace and, the seat of Goddess of learning. Shahjahan exclaimed, "If there is paradise on the earth it is here, it is here." Pandit Brij Narain Chakbast sang, particles of my motherland, Kashmir are known for their hospitality. Not to speak of its lakes and cascades, even the way side pebbles quenched my thirst whenever the need arose." It is but natural that such physiography of Kashmir should get reflected in the character of its ancient inhabitants who are nice, good, gentle and harmony gave birth to myriad saints and sages who attained highest goals of life by meditation. The mother of the three worlds and consort of Lord Shiva Parvati, chose to take her birth in this hallowed land the Maharagniya came flying from the deep south to make it her home Lord Shiva himself made it his abode. It is Sharda Peetha lovable, devoid of malice and crookedness. Kashmir has been a sangam, a meeting place of various communities and sects professing different faiths, beliefs and creeds and all co-existing in prefect harmony and tolerance. Practicing respect for others beliefs they had a world outlook and knew no conflicts arise out of racial and religious differences. The aboriginal inhabitants of Kashmir, the Kashmiri Hindus, in common parlance known as Kashmiri Pandits (KPS) constitute a distinct class of their own are considered to be a purest specimen of the ancient Aryan settlements on the banks of the river Saraswati and who migrated to Kashmir Valley in wake of the changing course of the river and eventually becoming invisible, having been dried up. The offsprings of rishis and seers and sages and belonging to the highest order of Brahmins, this small community of the Samswats have been and still are by and large, sober, peace loving and docile. They are among the few ancient surviving races whose traditions come down from the Gods. They are chataeterized by their being highly educated and learned. Vidyadhars, with more than 95% literacy, they have produced a galaxy of brilliant sages, saints, poets and statesmen, administrators and ambassadors, who made a lasting contribution to the development of the Indian composite heritage and culture. When Islam came to Kashmir, it brought conflict as it brought wherever its followers went. The KPs withstood and despite centuries upon centuries of humiliation, persecution, repression and torture at the hands of foreign rulers they survived. They passed through numerous periods of shame and indignity and physical vicissitudes, yet century after century they have recovered their glory by their own power of self-preservation. They have succeeded against fierce odds in preserving their rich cultural heritage bequeathed to them by their forebears who were man and women as great saints, free thinkers, intellectuals and literary giants showing matchless maturity and tolerance. Kashmin Pandit is the product of that vibrant, vigorous and unfettered, broad, exciting and tolerant culture and civilization that has never shown apathy and aversion to new and alien influences, thoughts and faiths whenever they came into contact with them. And to this day he is known for his dignity of soul, true valour, tolerance, piety, hospitality and forbearance. There are evidences of synthesis of KP culture with ancient Greek, Roman and pre-Islamic Persian culture. Tolerance has been and continues to be the hallmark of KP culture, despite severe pressure to make it contrary. Buddhism, acclaimed the most tolerant religion/way of life known to the world, came to Kashmir much earlier than Is­lam, neither in the form of political nor religious conquest, as the later did. It only stimulated a new culture and religious resurgence without producing a charm or conflict with the Samatna Dharma. Thus KPs joyfully loaned the ranks of the Buddhist Church and endowed it with new directions, open­ing new Vistas and leading to a new enrichment. History bears witness that no fewer than 700 KP Brahamin monks crossed the inaccessible mountains and carried the message of Buddha to Tibet, China and Central Asia. As a mature and tolerant race the KPs always upheld freedom of thought and free inquiry and in this background forcible conversion was unknown to KP ethos. The interpenetration and intermingling of Buddhism, Shaivism and Vaishnavism into a reformed form of Hinduism with its fundamentals remaining unchanged has been the sequel of the most tolerant cultural ethos obtaining in Kashmir prior to the coming of Islam. During the Hindu rule there was absolute harmony socio-political plane and the idea of conversion was something unknown and non-existent in the Kashmiiri culture. Hindu places of worship and prayer have never been misused as centers of preaching and propagating intolerance and religious bigotry and hatred to other faiths and creeds nor for inciting and abetting sedition nor as repositories of arms and ammunition, nor for providing secure shelter to sinners and criminals. The scope of their use has ever been confined to purely religious, moral philosophical and literary pursuits. The KP ethos echoes the basic Hindu ethos of equality and co-existence of all religions (Sarve Dharma Sambhavah), of the entire mankind being of but one family, (Vasudaiva Kuthumbakam), of praying for the well being of entire mankind (Sarve Bhadrani Pashyantu), not only for a particular group or community of co-religionists. It has always been a vehicle for transmitting the message of peace, brotherhood and co-existence of all faiths, never contaminated religion by an immoral union with politics. Such an unholy alliance had no place in  the scheme of things as conceptualized by the KPs right from the beginning of their history in the hoary past. And this heritage and outlook they posses even today. With their high profile thinking beyond banal mundane themes they turned Kashmir into a seat of invigorating, illuminating and emancipating intellectual occupation that attracted all in quest of higher values and spiritual exaltation. The entire socio-political and religious structure of KP society in Kashmir suffered a subversion in the beginning of thirteenth century with the appearance on the scene of severel Muslim ambitious adventurists and upstarts from far off alien lands. Harassed and faced with physical liquidation at the hands of their arch rivals and enemies in their respective countries they fled from there and found of haven of refuge and safety and security in spiritually stable though politically unstable Kashmir. Rinchen a fugitive refugee from Ladakh, Shah Mir forced to flee from Swat for his life and Bulbul Shah from Turkistan were given shelter in Kashmir, abiding by the glorious heritage of extending consideration, compassion and kindness and hospitality to those seeking refuge, irrespective of their beliefs and faith. And in true Kashmiri Pandit tradition they were permitted to practice their faith with full freedom without anybody raising any objection. They found the natives peace loving and unorthodox to fault and a country a propitious ground for their ulterior motives; therefore, they stayed on and enjoyed the generosity and hospitality of the Hindus rulers as well as the common people. Before long they started preparation for grinding their axe, and began to behave like the proverbial Arabian camel who cunningly occupied the tent by steadily nudging its owner out. These refugees, feeding fat at the hospitality of the people and building up pockets of influence became ambitious of seizing power and grabbing the throne with a particular design up their sleeves, transforming the entire religious and demographic profile of Kashmir. History bears witness to the glaring fact that they were responsible for creating and shaping condition in Kashmir, which caused intolerable affliction, miseries, torture, persecution, cruelty and pain to the KPs in the name of Allah. The reader experiences convulsions at the cruelties and indignities heaped on the helpless KPs for the holly cause of spread of Islam. This is how they repaid the munificence and benevolence of the Hindu rulers. Zul Qadir Khan, a Turkish Tartar, leading his savage hordes in tens of thousands looted and plundered and massacred the Hindus and razed the standing crops to ashes, thus spreading death, dissolution and ruination throughout the land for full eight months. The approach of winter, forced him to return. He took with him 50,000 Kashmiri men and women and children as slaves to be sold in Turkishtan. As fate would have it, the barbaric heartless Khan was caugt in a blizzard while traversing the mountainous path 'Devsar Pass' and the entire mass of people perished in cold snow. This place is called as 'BATA SAGAN' (Brahamans death oven). Jonraj a Kashmiri historian of the time paints a harrowing picture of the havoc and horror struck by Zul Qadir Khan in his spree of massacres that decimated the Kashmir Hindus. The land having been marauded, mangled, thousands died of poverty and starvation as if doom "pralaya" had overwhelmed the country. The carnage turned rivers and brook scarlet and gory with human blood. Rinchen thought to be Buddhist by faith, received shelter and sustenance and safety under the wings of Ram Chander a KP Commander-in-Chief, whom he betrayed and got killed with a view to pounce upon the throne of Kashmir. Since he was an alien he sought to identify himself with a set of people with a vested interest. Bul Bul Shah, one of them trickily converted Rinchen to Islam under the name of Sader-ud Din. And as the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir and with his converts missionary zeal Rinchen started his campaign for the mass conversion of KPs to Islam with all the brutal vigor and force at his disposal. It was Bul Bul Shah who incited, aided and abetted Rinchen to persecute and tyrannize the resistant Hindus and used all sorts of unfairways and means like compulsion, taxation, unjust law, use of the sword and forcible inter-marriages. Guided by him Rinchen pioneered the path for the later Muslim rulers to depopulate, dominate, degrade and drive KPs out of their ancestral land. From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 2 10:46:20 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:46:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: The schizo-politics of The Pirate Bay, Inc. Message-ID: <689FAB41-73E3-4C86-8067-C600822CAE16@sarai.net> Begin forwarded message: > Resent-From: nettime at kein.org > From: Rasmus Fleischer > Date: 1 July 2009 10:09:25 PM GMT+05:30 > Resent-To: Nettime > To: nettime-l at kein.org > Subject: The schizo-politics of The Pirate Bay, Inc. > > ?YOU FUCKING CORPORATE SELL OUT RATS!? Users of The Pirate Bay are > raging. > About a thousand comments were posted at The Pirate Bay?s blog > during the > first day after the news, probably 90-95 % expressing sadness or > anger over > the supposed sell-out. Some mainstream commentators in Sweden, on > the other > hand, greeted this as a step towards the abandonment of digital > piracy. > > We are used to imagine The Pirate Bay as a legendary entity fighting > an epic > battle, on behalf of the millions of file-sharers. However, it is not > exactly a legendary entity that is being sold. It is something > different. So > what is about to be sold? > > ?The Pirate Bay? is today, among other things: > * A domain name > * A web site > * An ad selling business > * A blog > * The world?s largest bittorrent tracker > * A clothing store > * Three persons > * A swarm > * A symbol > > ?The Pirate Bay? must be defined as an assemblage. Any of the listed > parts > would, on its own, be powerless. Only through its connections, the > assemblage becomes so powerful. However, all the parts are not > needed all > the time. Two are enough to make up the practice of bittorrent file- > sharing: > a swarm of file-sharers, and a tracker to connect them. > Many file-sharers are using The Pirate Bay?s tracker services > without even > visiting the website. Other indexing websites, like Mininova, are > using The > Pirate Bay?s tracker. Technically speaking, The Pirate Bay?s website > has > always been rather redundant. But the website is a platform for > connecting > two other parts: The commercial part of the ads, which are needed to > finance > the large costs for bandwidth and hardware, and the political part of > linking to current side-projects and publishing sporadic blog posts. > > This assemblage is now being disassembled and reassembled, in one > way or > another. That means something else than a ?sell-out? of all the > parts. All > the details of the affair are not clear yet, but to clear up the > picture, we > should first consider each part for itself, and ask three simple > questions: > 1) Is it ownable?; 2) Is it sellable?; 3) Is it copyable? > > * The domain name, www.thepiratebay.org, is definitely part of the > affair. > It is ownable and sellable, but not copyable given the current DNS > regime. > The web site that the visitor of the domain is directed to could be > said to > be ownable, in the sense that any new owner can change its contents. > But it > is also copyable, meaning that the ?original? version can pop up > again at > another domain name. Actually, it is very simple to copy. You can > fit all of > The Pirate Bay, including the software and every torrent, on a USB > stick. > * The ads have a value only as long as people visit the web site > (and do not > know how to use Adblock). The blog derives its meaning from the > personal > activity of the three persons involved, and could be hosted anywhere. > * The three persons (Peter Sunde, Fredrik Neij, Gottfrid Svartholm > Warg) are > especially interesting, as they can definitely not be copied. But > can they > be owned and sold? Yes, theoretically. In earlier cases of ?P2P sell- > out?, > individuals have signed contracts regulating their future > involvements in > other projects. This is not the case here. The trio is free to do > what they > want, including political activism and even exact copies of The > Pirate Bay. > * The tracker consists of hardware and (open source) software, > possible to > copy but not to uphold without financing. This part will not be part > of the > incorporation. Instead of being sold, the tracker service will be > transferred to a separate entity, that provides the service freely > to any > index wanting to use it, and supposedly does not even have the > information > about files it is tracking. This essentially would mean a small step > towards > decentralisation of the file-sharing infrastructure. It probably also > undermines the whole case the prosecutor made against The Pirate Bay > in > court. Questions about the financing of and control over this new > third > party tracker remains to be answered. However, it should not be > assumed that > control goes to the buyers of ?The Pirate Bay?. > * The swarm of millions of file-sharing humans and machines can not be > owned, nor sold, nor copied. It can, indeed, be fooled. Usually, > that?s what > cases of ?P2P sell-out? aims for, without much success. This time > chances > are even smaller that the swarm would keep using a service if it > began to > filter torrents or demand money for downloads. The Pirate Bay?s > tradition of > strong principles have educated people to be wary even of small > restrictions. If such would occur, the swarm is ready to move on. > However, > nothing at this point (except some vague formulations in a press > release > from the buying company) indicates that there are any such plans. > * The (visual and ideological) symbol ?The Pirate Bay?, finally, is > fundamentally transformed by the act of selling ?The Pirate Bay?. It > does > not really mean that the symbol can be sold. Rather, any attempt by > the > owner of the domain name to change what the symbol stands for, would > mean > that the symbol is dissolving and its associations re-projected at > multiple > other symbols. This could have quite interesting results. Even if > The Pirate > Bay and its associated projects have been able to use the power of one > singular symbol, there has also been an awareness of the problem > with The > Pirate Bay?s oligopolic status. > > File-sharing was never about leaning behind and letting other people > do the > work. The act of selling ?The Pirate Bay? (which really means > selling some > of the components in a larger assemblage) could work as a wake-up > call. > Ideally, the anger of some users will transform into action, so that > more > open bittorrent indexing website, maybe even trackers, will be set > up. That > would mean that The Pirate Bay, finally and paradoxically, reaches > its goal, > which is to be copied. The Pirate Bay never asked to be the sole > representatives of file-sharing. When large parts of the world?s > internet > traffic depends on whether Fredrik is too drunk to fix a server > error, a > radical diversification is needed to maintaing the power of P2P > file-sharing. Dissolving the centered subject, abandoning a > trademark to > multiply what it stands for. That?s the implicit schizo-politics of > The > Pirate Bay?s recent move. > > RASMUS FLEISCHER > (Me = co-founder of Piratbyr?n. Cooperating with, but not involved > in, The > Pirate Bay. No financial connection whatsoever with the current > incorporation plans.) > > > PS. Also read Jonas Andersson?s great analysis: > http://liquidculture.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/the-pirate-bay-two-important-speculations/ > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:50:24 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:50:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <6353c690907010923o782d9e3ct419d01faf90c2afe@mail.gmail.com> References: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907010923o782d9e3ct419d01faf90c2afe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907020120m639205c5m14533ae6fd6c3b5a@mail.gmail.com> "To relate every such Justice, campaign with stone throwing and abusing the brave Jawans, is equally insane. This will get them no JUSTICE. Violence will only give them more violence in return." Dear all, I think the above statement by Aditya shows how many of us (i am trying to address the larger whole instead of categorically pointing out the Panun Kashmir lobby which has been actively putting these issues on the forefront) look at kashmir or for that matter any conflict zone in the nation, be it Lalgarh, Warangal, Churachandpur, Diphu, Deesa and recently Shopian. Jawans of Indian forces operating in Kashmir are brave, on the right side of the conflict, their actions: unquestionable. This argument has been also applied to north east, which obviously has a different set of issues in terms of conflicts, in terms of political aspirations. Although in case of Indian or Indian forces and people who decide on their deployment, use force as the last means quell conflicts. However, all these efforts to quell such resistance (Kargil War is not included here merely because a direct role of Pakistani forces has been reportedly established) have been disastrous. Mobs in Gujarat or mobs in Shopian or even the organised Maoist resistance Lalgarh are going to be the same -- ruthless, cunning and even merciless. To digress a little, we are yet to know what happened in Karbi Anglong in 2005 or 2006 when karbis and dimasas fought each and within days there was more blood on the fields than waters -- unfortunately very was heard within Indian media or in the corridors of power centres. All we know about Karbi Anglong is that indian security forces have captured the banned Black Widow leader, Jewel Garlossa from Bangalore and the first train reached Haflong after two months of rail blockade. ( I am sure Garlossa knew that by calling his outfit Black Widow if not for anything else such as Dimasa Liberation Front will give him that kind publicity which he always wanted) The imagined bottomline that once the wheel has been turned, no matter how peaceful the foundations of a resistance is, it bound to become violent persists. However, whenever demands were made from different corners of this larger Indian whole, there were people within these quarters divided about the use of violent means. Cut back to Indian Paramilitary Jawan posted a checkpoint near Rangiya Cantonment of Assam Rifles, barely 30 kilometers from Guwahati. Besides being brave and other such things, he also has a family, probably a little bit of his kheti-baadi in some village near Uttar Pradesh or Punjab or Haryana. His folks sent him to paramilitary because it is a matter of honour to serve your country, protect the nation. In their imagination, this brave jawan of a son, the son of the soil, of the tiller of the earth is fighting for his land, protecting his people. Certainly, it is a matter of pride. And now he stands guard to keep a look out for enemies -- who are terrorists, extremists, militants, for some revolutionaries, guerillas, organised criminals, freedom fighters, you name them. They have already infiltrated, very much within the system, in fact these enemies are part of the system of governance. they are angry, discontent lot, loosers if you want to call them, unemployed (looking for work but not just a job), an outcaste -- no matter how much you want to convince them, they will have their way. they will keep killing. even the ones who have surrendered, save for a few, rest all of them just dont want to exist but want to become the centres of power. This jawan is not politically aspirational, he is brave enough to face a bullet and die or kill some of them. His bravery lasts for a few seconds, remembered for many years. By bravery, I only meant the Jawan's bravery. Not those four youths, who are armed with two carbines stolen from a local police station as the local cops quickly agreed to their demands. Now, they are advancing towards their same outpost where our brave Jawan guards. in a succession of few seconds, the pillion riders from hurl two or three objects, towards them as both the riders clench the fists to apply brakes. the moment these objects touch the ground close to the checkpost is the same moment when other Jawan, the brave one could not even shout, so that at least one of them could be not saved. such are these deaths that even brave men would fear for they may not have a split second to be what they are supposed to be. this was Assam in 1990s. They were not meant to die like this. These four youths, instead were considered brave within their community or their ranks. Please note that i am not dwelling on the premise a terrorist could a freedom fighter as well. So how does one sort these disparate yet significant crises of our times. It lies in answering the questiong as to Why do we have to link all forms of resistance (armed or unarmed) to a larger and more sinister, terrorism? Is it because while quelling these forms of resistance we need to first categorise them in certain ways so for the administrative hubris it becomes easier ? The negotiations that have between the resistance leaders and the government -- are they published? Is it only about freeing other men from captivity? Do we like living under the shadow of the gun? What makes you say, Aditya, that "Violence will only give them more violence in return". Are you saying it from the point of view of a jawan who, even if we decorate him with medals and honours dies like an innocent lamb after these unruly mobs, the cunning of a guerilla unit attack him out of the blue? Is this brave Jawan happy with his recent posting in poverty stricken belt with the locals up in arms against not this Jawan but who he represents? And the remedial measure is what -- violence. for the mere reason that the grounds for negotiation, the atmosphere for bilateral talks or for working out a strategy to rehabilitate these people is not conducive enough and therefore violence? Lastly, how many deaths on particular junction of a road does it take for the administration to set up a speed breaker, traffic signal or flyover? precisely how many? i hope my questions would be answered some day. -thanks anupam From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:54:37 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:54:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <341380d00907020120m639205c5m14533ae6fd6c3b5a@mail.gmail.com> References: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907010923o782d9e3ct419d01faf90c2afe@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907020120m639205c5m14533ae6fd6c3b5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907020124n186a40c6j7fb58a9ca885d863@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam , You can not have a speed breaker on a Highway , no matter how many people die because of accidents. Regards A Highway Authority lobbyist On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:50 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > "To relate every such Justice, campaign with stone throwing and abusing the > brave Jawans, is equally insane. This will get them no JUSTICE. Violence > will only give them more violence in return." > Dear all, > I think the above statement by Aditya shows how many of us (i am trying to > address the larger whole instead of categorically pointing out the Panun > Kashmir lobby which has been actively putting these issues on the forefront) > look at kashmir or for that matter any conflict zone in the nation, be it > Lalgarh, Warangal, Churachandpur, Diphu, Deesa and recently Shopian. Jawans > of Indian forces operating in Kashmir are brave, on the right side of the > conflict, their actions: unquestionable. This argument has been also applied > to north east, which obviously has a different set of issues in terms of > conflicts, in terms of political aspirations. Although in case of Indian or > Indian forces and people who decide on their deployment, use force as the > last means quell conflicts. However, all these efforts to quell such > resistance (Kargil War is not included here merely because a direct role of > Pakistani forces has been reportedly established) have been disastrous. Mobs > in Gujarat or mobs in Shopian or even the organised Maoist resistance > Lalgarh are going to be the same -- ruthless, cunning and even merciless. To > digress a little, we are yet to know what happened in Karbi Anglong in 2005 > or 2006 when karbis and dimasas fought each and within days there was more > blood on the fields than waters -- unfortunately very was heard within > Indian media or in the corridors of power centres. All we know about Karbi > Anglong is that indian security forces have captured the banned Black Widow > leader, Jewel Garlossa from Bangalore and the first train reached Haflong > after two months of rail blockade. ( I am sure Garlossa knew that by calling > his outfit Black Widow if not for anything else such as Dimasa Liberation > Front will give him that kind publicity which he always wanted) The imagined > bottomline that once the wheel has been turned, no matter how peaceful the > foundations of a resistance is, it bound to become violent persists. > However, whenever demands were made from different corners of this larger > Indian whole, there were people within these quarters divided about the use > of violent means. > Cut back to Indian Paramilitary Jawan posted a checkpoint near Rangiya > Cantonment of Assam Rifles, barely 30 kilometers from Guwahati. Besides > being brave and other such things, he also has a family, probably a little > bit of his kheti-baadi in some village near Uttar Pradesh or Punjab or > Haryana. His folks sent him to paramilitary because it is a matter of honour > to serve your country, protect the nation. In their imagination, this brave > jawan of a son, the son of the soil, of the tiller of the earth is fighting > for his land, protecting his people. Certainly, it is a matter of pride. And > now he stands guard to keep a look out for enemies -- who are terrorists, > extremists, militants, for some revolutionaries, guerillas, organised > criminals, freedom fighters, you name them. They have already infiltrated, > very much within the system, in fact these enemies are part of the system of > governance. they are angry, discontent lot, loosers if you want to call > them, unemployed (looking for work but not just a job), an outcaste -- no > matter how much you want to convince them, they will have their way. they > will keep killing. even the ones who have surrendered, save for a few, rest > all of them just dont want to exist but want to become the centres of power. > This jawan is not politically aspirational, he is brave enough to face a > bullet and die or kill some of them. His bravery lasts for a few seconds, > remembered for many years. By bravery, I only meant the Jawan's bravery. Not > those four youths, who are armed with two carbines stolen from a local > police station as the local cops quickly agreed to their demands. Now, they > are advancing towards their same outpost where our brave Jawan guards. in a > succession of few seconds, the pillion riders from hurl two or three > objects, towards them as both the riders clench the fists to apply brakes. > the moment these objects touch the ground close to the checkpost is the same > moment when other Jawan, the brave one could not even shout, so that at > least one of them could be not saved. such are these deaths that even brave > men would fear for they may not have a split second to be what they are > supposed to be. this was Assam in 1990s. They were not meant to die like > this. These four youths, instead were considered brave within their > community or their ranks. Please note that i am not dwelling on the premise > a terrorist could a freedom fighter as well. > So how does one sort these disparate yet significant crises of our times. It > lies in answering the questiong as to Why do we have to link all forms of > resistance (armed or unarmed) to a larger and more sinister, terrorism? Is > it because while quelling these forms of resistance we need to first > categorise them in certain ways so for the administrative hubris it becomes > easier ? The negotiations that have between the resistance leaders and the > government  -- are they published? Is it only about freeing other men from > captivity? Do we like living under the shadow of the gun? > What makes you say, Aditya, that "Violence will only give them more violence > in return". Are you saying it from the point of view of a jawan who, even if > we decorate him with medals and honours dies like an innocent lamb after > these unruly mobs, the cunning of a guerilla unit attack him out of the > blue? Is this brave Jawan happy with his recent posting in poverty stricken > belt with the locals up in arms against not this Jawan but who he > represents? And the remedial measure is what -- violence. for the mere > reason that the grounds for negotiation, the atmosphere for bilateral talks > or for working out a strategy to rehabilitate these people is not conducive > enough and therefore violence? > Lastly, how many deaths on particular junction of a road does it take for > the administration to set up a speed breaker, traffic signal or flyover? > precisely how many? > i hope my questions would be answered some day. > -thanks anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:21:45 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:21:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? In-Reply-To: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907020351s3e0a23dk8ca4308b91a46a2@mail.gmail.com> *Congratulations to the Gay Activists and their supporters on this forum. * India court overturns ban on gay sex*Reuters* NEW DELHI (Reuters) - An Indian court Thursday ruled gay sex was not a crime, a verdict that will bolster demands by gay and health groups that the government scrap a British colonial law which bans homosexual sex.*Link* - http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINTRE5611VE20090702 On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in his grave if this comes true. > > For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day in media > suggests that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong verdict > against the Section 377 IPC. > > Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the case might be > immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. > > Hope this is helpful. > > thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > *More from IANS* > > The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian court on a 19th > century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal offence. > > The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz Foundation, pleaded > that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour should be scrapped > for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. > > The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) is > violative of their fundamental right. > > Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who “voluntarily has carnal > intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal” shall > be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and be liable to pay > a fine. > > During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry and the home > ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in their opinion, with > the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the petitioners and the home > ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity saying such > behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian society. > > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 2 16:36:07 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:36:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? In-Reply-To: <6353c690907020351s3e0a23dk8ca4308b91a46a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907020351s3e0a23dk8ca4308b91a46a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: dear Aditya, It is an excellently argued judgement. The arguments on privacy in this judgement is i would guess a legal landmark. The petitioners and the team of lawyers and legal researchers had done immense work and shows in the quality of the judgement. warmly jeebesh On 02-Jul-09, at 4:21 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > *Congratulations to the Gay Activists and their supporters on this > forum. * > > India court overturns ban on gay sex*Reuters* > > NEW DELHI (Reuters) - An Indian court Thursday ruled gay sex was not a > crime, a verdict that will bolster demands by gay and health groups > that the > government scrap a British colonial law which bans homosexual > sex.*Link* - > http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINTRE5611VE20090702 > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >wrote: > >> Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in his grave if this comes true. >> >> For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day in media >> suggests that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong >> verdict >> against the Section 377 IPC. >> >> Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the case >> might be >> immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. >> >> Hope this is helpful. >> >> thanks >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> *More from IANS* >> >> The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian court on >> a 19th >> century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal offence. >> >> The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz Foundation, >> pleaded >> that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour should be >> scrapped >> for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. >> >> The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) is >> violative of their fundamental right. >> >> Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who “voluntarily has carnal >> intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or >> animal” shall >> be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and be >> liable to pay >> a fine. >> >> During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry and the >> home >> ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in their >> opinion, with >> the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the petitioners and the >> home >> ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity saying such >> behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian society. >> >> > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:49:11 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:49:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907020351s3e0a23dk8ca4308b91a46a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907020419i68beaadfi1a1c5d8f5cc0bfca@mail.gmail.com> *Full 105 page Judgement available at *- http://lobis.nic.in/dhc/APS/judgement/02-07-2009/APS02072009CW74552001.pdf thanks On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear Aditya, > > It is an excellently argued judgement. > > The arguments on privacy in this judgement is i would guess a legal > landmark. > > The petitioners and the team of lawyers and legal researchers had done > immense work and shows in the quality of the judgement. > > warmly > jeebesh > > > On 02-Jul-09, at 4:21 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > *Congratulations to the Gay Activists and their supporters on this > > forum. * > > > > India court overturns ban on gay sex*Reuters* > > > > NEW DELHI (Reuters) - An Indian court Thursday ruled gay sex was not a > > crime, a verdict that will bolster demands by gay and health groups > > that the > > government scrap a British colonial law which bans homosexual > > sex.*Link* - > > http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINTRE5611VE20090702 > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > kauladityaraj at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > >> Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in his grave if this comes true. > >> > >> For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day in media > >> suggests that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong > >> verdict > >> against the Section 377 IPC. > >> > >> Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the case > >> might be > >> immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. > >> > >> Hope this is helpful. > >> > >> thanks > >> Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > >> *More from IANS* > >> > >> The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian court on > >> a 19th > >> century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal offence. > >> > >> The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz Foundation, > >> pleaded > >> that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour should be > >> scrapped > >> for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. > >> > >> The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) is > >> violative of their fundamental right. > >> > >> Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who “voluntarily has carnal > >> intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or > >> animal” shall > >> be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and be > >> liable to pay > >> a fine. > >> > >> During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry and the > >> home > >> ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in their > >> opinion, with > >> the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the petitioners and the > >> home > >> ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity saying such > >> behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian society. > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From gautam.bhan at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:53:18 2009 From: gautam.bhan at gmail.com (Gautam Bhan) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:53:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? In-Reply-To: <6353c690907020419i68beaadfi1a1c5d8f5cc0bfca@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907020351s3e0a23dk8ca4308b91a46a2@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907020419i68beaadfi1a1c5d8f5cc0bfca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear All, Just to quickly say that this judgment should be read closely by all movements. It has evoked the constitution in a spirit I have not seen in the recent past. See if nothing else, the last conclusions. For those of us who have been fighting this law for a decade, standing in the Court no 1 this morning, tears flowing down our faces, it was also a reminder that somtimes fights end in days of victory. Sometimes things change. in solidarity, Gautam On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > *Full 105 page Judgement available at *- > > http://lobis.nic.in/dhc/APS/judgement/02-07-2009/APS02072009CW74552001.pdf > > thanks > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > > > dear Aditya, > > > > It is an excellently argued judgement. > > > > The arguments on privacy in this judgement is i would guess a legal > > landmark. > > > > The petitioners and the team of lawyers and legal researchers had done > > immense work and shows in the quality of the judgement. > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > > > On 02-Jul-09, at 4:21 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > *Congratulations to the Gay Activists and their supporters on this > > > forum. * > > > > > > India court overturns ban on gay sex*Reuters* > > > > > > NEW DELHI (Reuters) - An Indian court Thursday ruled gay sex was not a > > > crime, a verdict that will bolster demands by gay and health groups > > > that the > > > government scrap a British colonial law which bans homosexual > > > sex.*Link* - > > > http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINTRE5611VE20090702 > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in his grave if this comes true. > > >> > > >> For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day in media > > >> suggests that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong > > >> verdict > > >> against the Section 377 IPC. > > >> > > >> Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the case > > >> might be > > >> immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. > > >> > > >> Hope this is helpful. > > >> > > >> thanks > > >> Aditya Raj Kaul > > >> > > >> *More from IANS* > > >> > > >> The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian court on > > >> a 19th > > >> century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal offence. > > >> > > >> The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz Foundation, > > >> pleaded > > >> that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour should be > > >> scrapped > > >> for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. > > >> > > >> The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) is > > >> violative of their fundamental right. > > >> > > >> Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who “voluntarily has carnal > > >> intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or > > >> animal” shall > > >> be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and be > > >> liable to pay > > >> a fine. > > >> > > >> During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry and the > > >> home > > >> ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in their > > >> opinion, with > > >> the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the petitioners and the > > >> home > > >> ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity saying such > > >> behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian society. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- ___________ I write at: www.kafila.org. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 16:57:31 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:57:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... Message-ID: Dear Rahul, I will give a few examples here: For "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy", please see: Seers Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian Constitution! http://www.pluralindia.com/issues-in-secular-politics.php?id=205 For Panchayati system, see the following reports that refer to the exploitation of low-caste people and women under panchayat: http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv4n2/panchay.htm http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Law/2003/panchayati-raj.htm For your last point (constitution...is supposed to provide a basic framework...), let me say that shariat is also nothing but a basic framework. Literally, sharia means a way or path. And you can get strayed from the path. J On 7/1/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Ok so its time for truisms and platitudes now. > "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy." > Can you elaborate? > "The panchayati system in rural India still gives most power to the > high-caste goons." > Can you elaborate? Can you quote the relevant articles of the panchayati > system which "give most power to high-caste goons"? > > Let me add that the function of constitution is not to "keep everyone > happy",whatever that means.It is supposed to provide a basic framework and > some non amendable laws.The basic framework and non amendable laws cannot be > altered,even if there is majority will to do so. > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed wrote: > >> From: M Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right to give fatwas? >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:09 PM >> Dear Rahul >> No law or system of governance is ideal for all. Indian >> constitution >> does not keep everyone happy. For all practical purposes, >> democracy >> does not guarantee justice (and even equality) to all, >> although it >> maybe the most ideal system today. The panchayati system in >> rural >> India still gives most power to the high-caste goons. >> Afghan mujahids (or criminal gangs) would have used some >> other law to >> suppress women and kill innocent people if shariat was not >> there. Its >> how you use the law in your favour, even if it looks the >> most >> innocuous or balanced. >> >> J >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Rahul Asthana >> wrote: >> > >> > Javed, >> > Yes this answers my query. Now we can discuss >> further. >> > 1.Do you think laws are made on a best case scenario? >> > 2.Do you think we can rely on the better judgement of >> the majority when we choose to be governed by a law? >> > 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE or not for the >> Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban kind of way? >> > It is precisely for the reason that many >> interpretations are possible (a Taliban kind of >> implementation is one of them) that non Muslims,women etc >> should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, suppose your support >> for Shariat passively enables an entity like Taliban to come >> to power.I am assuming you in a democracy you would vote for >> a political party who stands for Shariat) then would you >> accept some responsibilty for that or call them "non >> Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your shoulders?This is >> exactly how the rise of Taliban has played out in Pakistan. >> > This discussion may be academic because as you have >> already said that owing to allegiance to your religion >> abiding by Shariat is your duty.No secular jurisprudence can >> provide you an alternative to that.So I thank you for >> discussing this with me anyway. >> > See, the thing is,that liberal interpreters of Shariat >> want the ideology behind their islamic identity to be just >> another secular humanist philosophy so badly that they think >> they can just shut their eyes, click their heels together, >> and it will all happen just as they want to.Other liberals >> like Shuddha should realize the danger inherent in this kind >> of exercise. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Rahul >> > >> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: M Javed >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the >> right to give fatwas? >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> "sarai list" >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM >> >> Rahul, which shariat are you >> >> referring to when you ask my opinion. >> >> What is the definition of shariat which I want to >> be >> >> governed with? I >> >> have my own definition of shariat, and I would be >> very >> >> happy to be >> >> governed under that. My shariat is very much from >> Islam, >> >> but it gives >> >> queers the right to live happily. >> >> >> >> Hope that answers your query. >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul >> Asthana >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> > I don't think you have thought this >> through,which is >> >> why you are unable to make the distinction between >> "adopt >> >> something from the shariat" and "being governed >> by >> >> shariat".I just wanted to know whether you are in >> favor of >> >> making "Shariat a basis for governance" or >> not.This is the >> >> key .Everything else is just gravy. >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Rahul >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> From: M Javed >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives >> muftis the >> >> right to give fatwas? >> >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> >> "sarai list" >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:40 PM >> >> >> Dear Rahul >> >> >> Here is my clearer position: I have been >> brought >> >> up in an >> >> >> orthodox >> >> >> Muslim family where shariat was/is >> considered the >> >> ultimate >> >> >> law/norm to >> >> >> follow for a Muslim. But in my childhood >> days it >> >> wasn't >> >> >> considered >> >> >> such an evil thing (as Taliban has made >> it to be). >> >> Let me >> >> >> tell you, >> >> >> following shariat in our daily lives is >> very >> >> different from >> >> >> making it >> >> >> as a basis for governance. Shariat as a >> basis of >> >> governance >> >> >> is not >> >> >> something fixed any way - it has been >> interpreted >> >> >> differently in >> >> >> different Islamic countries. Indonesia, >> Malaysia >> >> or Turkey >> >> >> also follow >> >> >> shariat but their systems are much more >> liberal. >> >> That is >> >> >> why I insist: >> >> >> please don't see shariat only through the >> eyes of >> >> the >> >> >> Taliban/Afghanistan. >> >> >> >> >> >> Whatever name you give it, the point is, >> is your >> >> system of >> >> >> governance >> >> >> favourable for you. At the moment I am >> governed >> >> by >> >> >> democracy, whether >> >> >> I like it or not. There are many things I >> hate in >> >> >> democracy, and would >> >> >> love to change them one day (if I could), >> even >> >> adopt >> >> >> something from >> >> >> the shariat. Is there something wrong >> with that? >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Rahul >> >> Asthana >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> >> > Could you make your position clearer >> on this >> >> issue? >> >> >> You say- >> >> >> > "My second minor difference is: when >> you say >> >> "We are >> >> >> not governed by >> >> >> > the Shariat, and I hope we never >> will be". I >> >> am not >> >> >> sure if Shariat is >> >> >> > all evil." >> >> >> > So, do you wish or do you not, to be >> governed >> >> by >> >> >> Shariat? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > (Not wishing to be governed by >> Shariat does >> >> not mean >> >> >> that it is evil.It also does not mean >> that we >> >> can't adopt >> >> >> good things from it.) >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Thanks >> >> >> > Rahul >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> From: M Javed >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who >> gives >> >> muftis the >> >> >> right to give fatwas? >> >> >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >> , >> >> >> "sarai list" >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, >> 3:46 PM >> >> >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata >> >> >> >> Actually I have a slight >> digression from >> >> your >> >> >> answer. I >> >> >> >> don't care >> >> >> >> what fatwas the muftis give >> within their >> >> own >> >> >> coterie (I'm >> >> >> >> sure >> >> >> >> homosexual behaviour exists in >> the >> >> Deoband madrasa >> >> >> too), >> >> >> >> but the >> >> >> >> problem comes when this news is >> flashed >> >> on the >> >> >> front-page: >> >> >> >> it >> >> >> >> basically sends a clear signal >> that >> >> "Muslims" in >> >> >> general >> >> >> >> are against >> >> >> >> homo-sexuality and this is yet >> another >> >> example of >> >> >> how >> >> >> >> bigoted the >> >> >> >> entire community is, and there >> are >> >> absolutely no >> >> >> liberals >> >> >> >> (or >> >> >> >> queer-friendly) people among the >> Muslims >> >> and so >> >> >> on, which >> >> >> >> is not the >> >> >> >> case. In a way, any >> controversial fatwa >> >> from the >> >> >> Deoband >> >> >> >> (whichever >> >> >> >> damn topic) is taken by the >> media as a >> >> hot saucy >> >> >> news to be >> >> >> >> flashed to >> >> >> >> show the backwardness of >> Muslims. But my >> >> question >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> (especially to >> >> >> >> the mainstream media), do these >> damn >> >> fatwas >> >> >> really >> >> >> >> represent the >> >> >> >> entire Muslim community? Are >> they so >> >> important >> >> >> that you >> >> >> >> have to flash >> >> >> >> them as headlines. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> My second minor difference is: >> when you >> >> say "We >> >> >> are not >> >> >> >> governed by >> >> >> >> the Shariat, and I hope we never >> will >> >> be". I am >> >> >> not sure if >> >> >> >> Shariat is >> >> >> >> all evil. Although I don't >> practice it >> >> strictly, >> >> >> but I know >> >> >> >> it has >> >> >> >> many good things in it which >> make at >> >> least the >> >> >> good part of >> >> >> >> Islam >> >> >> >> alive. Don't see it only through >> the eyes >> >> of the >> >> >> Taliban. >> >> >> >> Whether we >> >> >> >> get governed by the shariat or >> not, I >> >> hope we >> >> >> could at >> >> >> >> least adopt the >> >> >> >> good things about it. And >> Shariat is not >> >> a fixed >> >> >> set of >> >> >> >> rules; it can >> >> >> >> be and should be open for >> interpretation, >> >> which >> >> >> these >> >> >> >> muftis have >> >> >> >> stopped doing. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks any way. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:53 >> PM, >> >> Shuddhabrata >> >> >> >> Sengupta >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> >> >> > Thank you for forwarding >> this. I >> >> don't know >> >> >> who gives >> >> >> >> these muftis and >> >> >> >> > tuftis the right to give >> fatwas, I >> >> think they >> >> >> give it >> >> >> >> to themselves. And >> >> >> >> > since they routinely issue >> fatwas on >> >> all >> >> >> manner of >> >> >> >> ridiculous matters, we >> >> >> >> > might as well treat this >> one too >> >> with the >> >> >> lack of >> >> >> >> seriousness that it >> >> >> >> > deserves. >> >> >> >> > We are not governed by the >> Shariat, >> >> and I >> >> >> hope we >> >> >> >> never will be. Since we >> >> >> >> > are not governed by the >> Shariat, it >> >> hardly >> >> >> matters >> >> >> >> whether or not Maulana >> >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi >> thinks >> >> homosexuality is >> >> >> an >> >> >> >> offence under Shariat Law. >> >> >> >> > Not even the relevant (and >> >> anachronistic, >> >> >> misogynist >> >> >> >> and patrarchal) >> >> >> >> > sections of Personal Law in >> matters >> >> of >> >> >> marriage and >> >> >> >> inheritance that govern >> >> >> >> > the lives of Indian Muslims >> have >> >> anything to >> >> >> say about >> >> >> >> sexual relations in >> >> >> >> > private between consenting >> adults. >> >> So, not >> >> >> even from >> >> >> >> the completely >> >> >> >> > unacceptabe (to me) >> standpoint of >> >> defending a >> >> >> separate >> >> >> >> civil code for >> >> >> >> > Muslims is it relevant to >> discuss >> >> the fate of >> >> >> Section >> >> >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi >> >> >> >> > is barking up the wrong >> legal tree. >> >> >> >> > Finally, a small >> historical >> >> digression. >> >> >> Section 377 >> >> >> >> was introduced by the >> >> >> >> > British Colonial >> Administration in >> >> India. >> >> >> Which, as >> >> >> >> far as i recall, was not >> >> >> >> > exactly a model Islamic >> state. In >> >> fact, the >> >> >> British >> >> >> >> Colonial authorities >> >> >> >> > presided over the decline >> and >> >> destruction of >> >> >> >> 'nominally' Muslim political >> >> >> >> > power in India. if, for the >> roughly >> >> seven >> >> >> hundred >> >> >> >> years preceding the advent >> >> >> >> > of British rule in India, >> when the >> >> territory >> >> >> happened >> >> >> >> to be ruled largely by >> >> >> >> > Muslim rulers, (some of >> whom claimed >> >> to be >> >> >> guided by >> >> >> >> the Shariat) it was not >> >> >> >> > found necessary to invoke >> a >> >> draconian law >> >> >> like section >> >> >> >> 377, are we to then >> >> >> >> > understand that the >> British >> >> Colonial >> >> >> authority was >> >> >> >> more 'Islamic' than the >> >> >> >> > Mughal rulers, than the >> rulers of >> >> the Delhi >> >> >> sultanate, >> >> >> >> and many other kings >> >> >> >> > and princes of a Muslim >> persuasion. >> >> >> >> > And finally, how exactly >> would we >> >> remember a >> >> >> figure >> >> >> >> like the great Ghazi of >> >> >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of Ghazna >> and his >> >> love for >> >> >> Ayaz, or >> >> >> >> Razia Sultana and her >> >> >> >> > love for women, or the >> distinctly >> >> queer >> >> >> ecstasies of >> >> >> >> Amir Khusrau and >> >> >> >> > Sarmad. Each one of these >> people >> >> saw >> >> >> themselves as >> >> >> >> devout Muslim. And there >> >> >> >> > was nothing unusual in >> their being >> >> queer >> >> >> Muslims. >> >> >> >> Islamicate societies all >> >> >> >> > over the world have been >> >> historically far >> >> >> more >> >> >> >> tolerant of various different >> >> >> >> > kinds of same-sex >> relationships both >> >> male and >> >> >> female, >> >> >> >> and transgender >> >> >> >> > identities, than societies >> largely >> >> anchored >> >> >> in >> >> >> >> Christian values have been. >> >> >> >> > Islam is a sex positive >> religion. >> >> It >> >> >> celebrates the >> >> >> >> dignity, beauty and >> >> >> >> > diversity of the human body >> and all >> >> its >> >> >> desires. There >> >> >> >> is (and always has >> >> >> >> > been) a strong case for a >> queer >> >> theology of >> >> >> liberation >> >> >> >> that is rooted within >> >> >> >> > the Islamicate cultural >> universe, >> >> and it has >> >> >> had a >> >> >> >> long history, and it will >> >> >> >> > have a long future. >> >> >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is probably >> just as >> >> ignorant >> >> >> of the >> >> >> >> traditions he claims are >> >> >> >> > his own as Praveen Togadia, >> the >> >> firebrand >> >> >> leader of >> >> >> >> the Vishwa Hindu >> >> >> >> > Parishad, is. They would >> probably >> >> make an >> >> >> excellent >> >> >> >> couple, locked happily >> >> >> >> > together within their >> private closet >> >> of >> >> >> paranoia. >> >> >> >> > Meanwhile, let us hope that >> Veerappa >> >> Moily's >> >> >> supposed >> >> >> >> u-turn is only a >> >> >> >> > digression, and that the >> provisions >> >> in >> >> >> Section 377 >> >> >> >> that criminalize the >> >> >> >> > behaviour of consenting >> adults in >> >> private >> >> >> (which >> >> >> >> should not be the business >> >> >> >> > of the state) are >> consigned >> >> finally to >> >> >> where they >> >> >> >> belong - the dustbin of >> >> >> >> > history. >> >> >> >> > And congratulations to all >> those who >> >> paraded >> >> >> on the >> >> >> >> streets of Delhi, >> >> >> >> > Bangalore, Madras and >> Calcutta. The >> >> future >> >> >> belongs to >> >> >> >> you (and us all) not >> >> >> >> > to the likes of Maulana >> Madrasi. >> >> >> >> > regards >> >> >> >> > Shuddha >> >> >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at 3:54 PM, M >> Javed >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Gay sex against tenets of >> Islam: >> >> Deoband >> >> >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 hrs IST, >> PTI >> >> >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: A >> leading Islamic >> >> seminary >> >> >> on >> >> >> >> Monday opposed >> >> >> >> > Centre's move to repeal a >> >> controversial >> >> >> section of the >> >> >> >> penal law which >> >> >> >> > criminalises homosexuality >> saying >> >> unnatural >> >> >> sex is >> >> >> >> against the tenets of >> >> >> >> > Islam. >> >> >> >> > "Homosexuality is an >> offence under >> >> Shariat >> >> >> Law and >> >> >> >> haram (prohibited) >> >> >> >> > in Islam," deputy vice >> chancellor of >> >> the >> >> >> Darul Uloom >> >> >> >> Deoband Maulana >> >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik Madrasi said. >> >> >> >> > Madrasi also asked the >> government >> >> not to >> >> >> repeal >> >> >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> >> >> > which criminalises >> homosexuality. >> >> >> >> > His objection came a day >> after law >> >> minister >> >> >> Veerappa >> >> >> >> Moily said a >> >> >> >> > decision on repealing the >> section >> >> would be >> >> >> taken only >> >> >> >> after >> >> >> >> > considering concerns of all >> sections >> >> of the >> >> >> society, >> >> >> >> including >> >> >> >> > religious groups like the >> church. >> >> >> >> > Terming gay activities as >> crime, >> >> Maulana >> >> >> Salim Kasmi, >> >> >> >> vice-president >> >> >> >> > of the All-India Muslim >> Personal Law >> >> Board >> >> >> (AIMPLB), >> >> >> >> said >> >> >> >> > homosexuality is punishable >> under >> >> Islamic law >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> >> >> > should not be tampered. >> >> >> >> > Maulana Mohd Sufiyan Kasmi, >> an >> >> AIMPLB member, >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, >> >> >> >> > president of Uttar Pradesh >> Imam >> >> Organisation >> >> >> have also >> >> >> >> expressed >> >> >> >> > similar views on the >> issue. >> >> >> >> > Kasmi said it would be >> harmful for >> >> the >> >> >> society to >> >> >> >> legalise gay sex. >> >> >> >> > Buoyed by the news that the >> Centre >> >> is >> >> >> considering >> >> >> >> repealing the >> >> >> >> > controversial section of >> the IPC, >> >> members of >> >> >> the gay >> >> >> >> community on >> >> >> >> > Sunday held parades in >> several >> >> cities. >> >> >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms >> >> >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> > reader-list: an open >> discussion list >> >> on media >> >> >> and the >> >> >> >> city. >> >> >> >> > Critiques & >> Collaborations >> >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email >> to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> >> >> with subscribe >> >> >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> >> >> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> >> >> >> > The Sarai Programme at >> CSDS >> >> >> >> > Raqs Media Collective >> >> >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net >> >> >> >> > www.sarai.net >> >> >> >> > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion >> list on >> >> media and >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> city. >> >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> >> >> with subscribe in the subject >> header. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> List archive: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 2 17:20:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:50:12 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Nilekani needs a broader mandate- 134 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907020450k22dbb00ex274fb9a525a94906@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, In his column in the Indian Express Sudheendra Kulkarni, a key aide of LK Advani of the BJP endorses the government of India's move to appoint Nilekeni Saheb as the head of Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI). The BJP is of course the chief 'opposition' party of India. Kulkarni Saheb rehmat-ullah-burkatahu tells us i.e. his readers that the identity card project was in fact Advani jee's brainchild; here, one must bear in mind that with the strength of left parties and other important sources of resistance greatly reduced in the present parliament, one will perhaps not see any move by a major political party or a group of parties to question the implementation of MNIC. One wonders though how will the GOI be able to carryout a national census and verification process and establish beyond reasonable doubt that a billion or so people who inhabit the political boundaries of India are in fact Indians in just three years when they could not identify all voters of this country in the past seventeen years or all the people living below the poverty line in the past ten years? Last heard, they were distributing BPL cards in the name of Sania Mirza in Andhra Pradesh. Imagine that :) The interesting point is 'While the state (Andhra Pradesh's) population is about 8.3 crore, the population figure, as per the number of ration cards issued, crossed 9.8 crore.' ( Please read the story pasted below SK's article for more on Sania jee's BPL triumph) Anyways...lets come back to Nandan Saheb rehmat-ullah-burkatahu . Who is Nandan Nilekeni? The Infosys website gives us this information on Nilekeni Saheb- 'In January 2006, Nandan became one of the youngest entrepreneurs to join 20 global leaders on the prestigious World Economic Forum (WEF) Foundation Board. He is listed as one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine, 2006.Nandan co-founded India's National Association of Software and Service Companies (NASSCOM) as well as the Bangalore Chapter of The IndUS Entrepreneurs (TiE). Nandan is a member of the National Knowledge Commission and also part of the National Advisory Group on e-Governance. He is also a member of the review committee of the Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission. He took over as the elected President of NCAER (the premier, independent, applied economics research institute in India) in April 2008.Nandan has been involved in various initiatives of the central and state governments. He was the Chairman of the Government of India’s IT Task Force for power. Nandan has also served as a member of the subcommittee of the Securities and Exchange Board of India that dealt with issues related to Insider Trading, and as a member of the Reserve Bank of India’s Advisory Group on corporate governance. Nandan was on the Board of Reuters as a non-executive member from January 2007 till the merger of Reuters with Thomson in April 2008. He is the Vice Chairman of The Conference Board, Inc., an international research and business membership organization. He is on the Board of Directors of the Peterson Institute for International Economics and is a member of the Board of Governors of the Indian Council for Research on International Economic Relations (ICRIER). ( http://www.infosys.com/about/management-profiles/nandan-nilekani.asp ) This guy seems to have covered an entire spectrum of interests and lobby groups from big media to elite economic consultancy to education to urban renewal he has done it all. However,I still also do not understand the logic of appointing a person like Nilekeni as head of Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI). All the jobs he did at the national level seems like consultancy jobs where he was acting as a member of advisory board or a member of review committee and so on. I do not know how does that makes him eligible to head Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI). Could someone please ask him, what does one mean by personal identity? After he joined the Government, people have been talking about his 'sacrifice'. How he had to 'resign' from Infosys and take the new responsibility. All this he 'sacrificed' for the nation they say. In 2008 Infosys, earned a revenue of US$ 4 billion or 20-25000 crore rupees. Are we to believe that Nandan Saheb 'sacrificed' all this to head an entity which is worth SIX times the money he could have ever managed at Infosys? Then there are other nagging questions. Why is he appointed? What are the requirements for this post? Is he the only person in India who can fulfill those requirements? Is he even eligible? Who does he represents? What experience does he have in the business of census and human verification? What knowledge base does he brings to the board which out matches that of a seasoned bureaucrat belonging to the office of the Registrar General of India, someone who will not only be experienced in carrying out large scale census surveys but also be completely at ease with logistical, procedural details??? I am truly fascinated by the deafening silence of our TRP led and TRP fed, mainstream electronic and print media to allow a blatant and uncritical policy apparatus to first create a bland rhetoric of 'modernity' with its strange fixation for single alphabet prefixed phrases in 'e-governance' and 'g-governance', whatever they mean and then construct a seemingly rational argument for a proposed transfer of 1.5 lakh crore rupees!!! How easy is that? Hey need monies...just talk of e-g and g-g and there you go.... GOI will appoint NN, the WEF guy, the TiE guy, the NASSCOM guy who will give a lakh crore rupees while SK will say bravo bravo!!! BTW could someone please do the math and tell us how many zeroes are there in a lakh crore??? No one, it appears, wants to imagine what could 1.5 lakh crore rupees could do to education, health, basic sanitation or rural roads in India? However I do think, people like me, miss the bigger picture...actually it could look quite hip and sexy to see half a million of us Indians, skimpily clad and carrying other people's shit on their heads in porous cane baskets, employed in highly sought after jobs like manual scavenging, sashaying down the streets with smart digitized tokens, representing a triumph of 'e-governance' and 'g-governance' (which accords them Indian citizenship), dangling around their necks. Please read this brilliantly written congratulatory piece by Kulkarni Saheb for more. This is where SK eloquently argues for a 'broader mandate' for NN.... I think one can clearly read in Kulkarni's text that the BJP is giving a strong message to the nation that not only it is unfit to rule India it but with its un-critical approach to initiate a debate around sarkaari policies like MNIC it appears as if the BJP is unfit to sit in opposition too. With warm regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/why-nilekani-needs-a-broader-mandate/482226/0 Why Nilekani needs a broader mandate Dr Manmohan Singh’s government deserves kudos for appointing Nandan Nilekani as the head of a super-ambitious national project—to implement, within three years, a multi-purpose unique identity card scheme covering all Indian citizens. He will be at the helm of the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI), which was set up early this year and is attached to the Planning Commission. One of the icons of the Indian IT industry, he is certainly the right choice for the task. After contributing to the phenomenal success of Infosys Technologies, which he co-founded with N.R. Narayana Murthy, he has chosen to sacrifice his corporate position to take up a major responsibility in government. Nilekani’s transition to public life was presaged by the best-selling book Imagining India, which he wrote last year to explore, what he termed in its sub-title as ‘Ideas for the New Century’. Although the unique identity card scheme was discussed at length in the book, the idea itself is not new, nor can it be uniquely credited to the UPA government. Its first spirited votary was L.K. Advani, who, as Home Minister in the NDA government, made it one of his pet themes and even launched it as a pilot scheme in select districts. Sadly, like many pilot schemes in our country, it remained at the pilot stage for the first five years of the UPA government. Now the Prime Minister has done the right thing by rescuing it in time for the forthcoming 2011 census. It is not often that governments scout outside talent to spearhead important national programmes. Both our bureaucracy and the political class have perfected the art of filling government bodies with their own people, regardless of whether the appointee is the best person for the job. For bureaucrats it is a way of hopping on to post-retirement perches and for politicians it is a way of accommodating those who cannot be made MLAs, MPs or ministers. It is high time our leaders realised that the country is bigger than the politicians and bureaucrats. There is no dearth of public-spirited, highly capable and deeply committed professionals outside the government system who can, and are willing to, shoulder challenging assignments. Sadly, very few get the opportunity they deserve. Now that the Congress is back with a bigger mandate, can we hope to see more Nilekanis being given leadership positions in governmental programmes in education, healthcare, housing, infrastructure development etc? Measured in terms of its potential benefit and transformational impact, the Unique Identity Card scheme can turn out to be historic. However, the potential will reach its fullness only if the scheme is integrated into the larger matrix of e-governance and g-governance (g stands for good). And this is where the UPA government needs to view the UIDAI not as a stand-alone body but as an important component of a larger mission to achieve improved governance and better socio-economic development using the revolutionary tools that IT provides. A major drawback in e-governance initiatives in India is that they are not explicitly linked to, and measured by, the goals of g-governance. Which is why, many government departments routinely reduce e-governance to simply procuring more IT hardware and software. Moreover, the departmental mentality is so deeply entrenched in government that they rarely work in unison to achieve common and inter-related objectives. Thus, their e-governance initiatives suffer due to duplication, non-standardisation, non-scalability and poor training, all resulting in wastage of resources and poor outcomes. The UIDAI can catalyse a change in this pattern. For this, it needs to be properly conceived with an enlarged mandate. If the government gives a purely technical mandate to the UIDAI, it will not be difficult for Nilekani and his team to issue a basic ID card to all citizens, just as the Election Commission has done so in respect of the voter ID card. However, from the point of view of both the citizen and the government, the full benefits of the unique ID card begin to flow only when the multiple purposes for which it can be used can be seamlessly integrated into it. This requires considerable re-engineering of the functioning of various entities of government, right from the Centre to the panchayat. For example, citizens will judge the success of the unique ID scheme on the basis of whether it reduces corruption, harassment and delays in their interface with government. Else, they will view it as a needless encumbrance, meant more to advance the none-too-transparent goals of babudom than to meet the felt needs of citizens themselves. My suggestion is that the Prime Minister should set up something like a Good Governance Reforms Implementation Authority, chaired by him so that he imparts to it the full weight of his office. The Administrative Reforms Commission, set up by the previous UPA government under the chairmanship of Veerappa Moily, has made a comprehensive set of recommendations, almost all of which have an E-governance component. And nearly all of them require the implementation of the unique ID scheme. These recommendations encompass the issues of national security, development, corruption-free delivery of government services, and transparency, efficiency and accountability in the functioning of various institutions of democracy (including the judiciary). Hence, the UIDAI should function as a subset of a larger mission for the promotion of good governance. Moreover, the Centre should proactively make all political parties, state governments and local self-government bodies partners in achieving speedy progress of both the unique ID card scheme as well as the broader mission for good governance reforms. Nilekani’s is by no means an easy assignment. There are many thorny issues that he will have to handle, above all a change-resistant system of governance. He needs our good wishes. sudheenkulkarni at gmail.com http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090614/main7.htm Sania belongs to BPL family! Hyderabad, June 13 Tennis star Sania Mirza may be a millionaire but her face appears on a ration card belonging to a below poverty line (BPL) family in Andhra Pradesh. The white ration card, which makes a family eligible to get rice at a highly-subsidised price of Rs 2-a-kg and social security benefits health insurance and a permanent housing, has been issued to one Laxmi of Vizianagaram district with a photograph of Sania. The revelation of the case has invited the wrath of Chief Minister Y S Rajasekhara Reddy who reviewed the social security schemes at a high-level meeting here today, sources in the CMO said. This only showed how blindly the ration cards were issued without any proper verification, the Chief Minister reportedly fumed at officials of the Civil Supplies Department. While the state population is about 8.3 crore, the population figure, as per the number of ration cards issued, crossed 9.8 crore. The Chief Minister himself revealed in the state Assembly three days ago that there were as many as 2.15 crore white ration cards, making those families eligible to draw subsidised rice and avail of other welfare schemes. — PTI From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 2 17:29:13 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:29:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907011134u14f780cfl7856a1b18d209c0c@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907020351s3e0a23dk8ca4308b91a46a2@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907020419i68beaadfi1a1c5d8f5cc0bfca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Here is the conclusion section of the judgement. CONCLUSION 129. The notion of equality in the Indian Constitution flows from the ‘Objective Resolution’ moved by Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru on December 13, 1946. Nehru, in his speech, moving this Resolution wished that the House should consider the Resolution not in a spirit of narrow legal wording, but rather look at the spirit behind that Resolution. He said, ”Words are magic things often enough, but even the magic of words sometimes cannot convey the magic of the human spirit and of a Nation’s passion…….. (The Resolution) seeks very feebly to tell the world of what we have thought or dreamt of so long, and what we now hope to achieve in the near future.” [Constituent Assembly Debates: Lok Sabha Secretariat, New Delhi: 1999, Vol. I, pages 57-65]. 130.If there is one constitutional tenet that can be said to be underlying theme of the Indian Constitution, it is that of 'inclusiveness'. This Court believes that Indian Constitution reflects this value deeply ingrained in Indian society, nurtured over several generations. The inclusiveness that Indian society traditionally displayed, literally in every aspect of life, is manifest in recognising a role in society for everyone. Those perceived by the majority as “deviants' or 'different' are not on that score excluded or ostracised. 131. Where society can display inclusiveness and understanding, such persons can be assured of a life of dignity and non- discrimination. This was the 'spirit behind the Resolution' of which Nehru spoke so passionately. In our view, Indian Constitutional law does not permit the statutory criminal law to be held captive by the popular misconceptions of who the LGBTs are. It cannot be forgotten that discrimination is anti- thesis of equality and that it is the recognition of equality which will foster the dignity of every individual. 132.We declare that Section 377 IPC, insofar it criminalises consensual sexual acts of adults in private, is violative of Articles 21, 14 and 15 of the Constitution. The provisions of Section 377 IPC will continue to govern non-consensual penile non-vaginal sex and penile non-vaginal sex involving minors. By 'adult' we mean everyone who is 18 years of age and above. A person below 18 would be presumed not to be able to consent to a sexual act. This clarification will hold till, of course, Parliament chooses to amend the law to effectuate the recommendation of the Law Commission of India in its 172nd Report which we believe removes a great deal of confusion. Secondly, we clarify that our judgment will not result in the re-opening of criminal cases involving Section 377 IPC that have already attained finality. We allow the writ petition in the above terms. CHIEF JUSTICE S.MURALIDHAR, J JULY 2, 2009 On 02-Jul-09, at 4:53 PM, Gautam Bhan wrote: > Dear All, > > Just to quickly say that this judgment should be read closely by all > movements. It has > evoked the constitution in a spirit I have not seen in the recent > past. See > if > nothing else, the last conclusions. > > For those of us who have been fighting this law for a decade, > standing in > the Court no 1 > this morning, tears flowing down our faces, it was also a reminder > that > somtimes fights > end in days of victory. Sometimes things change. > > in solidarity, > Gautam > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >wrote: > >> *Full 105 page Judgement available at *- >> >> http://lobis.nic.in/dhc/APS/judgement/02-07-2009/APS02072009CW74552001.pdf >> >> thanks >> >> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Jeebesh wrote: >> >>> dear Aditya, >>> >>> It is an excellently argued judgement. >>> >>> The arguments on privacy in this judgement is i would guess a legal >>> landmark. >>> >>> The petitioners and the team of lawyers and legal researchers had >>> done >>> immense work and shows in the quality of the judgement. >>> >>> warmly >>> jeebesh >>> >>> >>> On 02-Jul-09, at 4:21 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>> >>>> *Congratulations to the Gay Activists and their supporters on this >>>> forum. * >>>> >>>> India court overturns ban on gay sex*Reuters* >>>> >>>> NEW DELHI (Reuters) - An Indian court Thursday ruled gay sex was >>>> not a >>>> crime, a verdict that will bolster demands by gay and health groups >>>> that the >>>> government scrap a British colonial law which bans homosexual >>>> sex.*Link* - >>>> http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINTRE5611VE20090702 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >>> kauladityaraj at gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in his grave if this comes true. >>>>> >>>>> For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day in >>>>> media >>>>> suggests that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong >>>>> verdict >>>>> against the Section 377 IPC. >>>>> >>>>> Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the case >>>>> might be >>>>> immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. >>>>> >>>>> Hope this is helpful. >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>>>> >>>>> *More from IANS* >>>>> >>>>> The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian court >>>>> on >>>>> a 19th >>>>> century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal offence. >>>>> >>>>> The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz Foundation, >>>>> pleaded >>>>> that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour should be >>>>> scrapped >>>>> for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. >>>>> >>>>> The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code >>>>> (IPC) is >>>>> violative of their fundamental right. >>>>> >>>>> Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who “voluntarily has >>>>> carnal >>>>> intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or >>>>> animal” shall >>>>> be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and be >>>>> liable to pay >>>>> a fine. >>>>> >>>>> During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry and the >>>>> home >>>>> ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in their >>>>> opinion, with >>>>> the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the petitioners and the >>>>> home >>>>> ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity saying >>>>> such >>>>> behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian society. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>>> >>>> Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >>>> Cell - +91-9873297834 >>>> >>>> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >> Cell - +91-9873297834 >> >> Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > ___________ > > I write at: www.kafila.org. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 2 17:35:11 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:05:11 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. Message-ID: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Below is an excerpt of a report filed by NDTV on the impact which the expected budgetary allocation, if realized, will have on the industry with respect to software technology parks and e-governance projects. Regards Taha http://profit.ndtv.com/2009/07/01182951/IT-sector-seeks-STPI-extension.html IT sector seeks STPI extension, higher spending on e-governance projects Anand Rathi Securities Wednesday, July 01, 2009 (New Delhi) The Software Technology Parks of India (STPI) clause may be extended; this would be positive for Indian IT. This would also provide relief to tier-II players, who are cash-strapped and not prepared for SEZs. Expectations – STPI extension EoU benefits may be extended. Tax relief for export-oriented units is likely to be taken up in the budget to extend the sunset clause from March 31, 2010 to March 31, 2013. Impact on sector No sharp rise in tax rates in FY11, if implemented. The full tax rate on offshore profits would be deferred by three years – from FY10 to FY13. If the proposal is implemented, tax rates would be at 16 per cent in FY10, then at 16 per cent in FY11 (down from the earlier estimated 18-20 per cent). Clearly, there would not be much of an increase in tax rates in the next three years starting Mar ’10. This would give companies another three full years to increase exposure to SEZs. This would be positive for Indian IT companies. While this would be beneficial for the sector, companies that are relatively less prepared (SEZ strategy) and that have higher revenue growth would benefit more. Tier-II players not yet prepared for SEZs would benefit. The EPS CAGR would increase and hence would be taken positively. Tier-II players would probably benefit more, but most of them are struggling operationally in a difficult macroeconomic environment. Companies impacted Positive impact on IT Services – Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL Tech, Tech Mahindra, Mphasis and other outsourcing companies. Expectation - Introduction of MNIC (Multi-purpose National Identity Cards) The government is committed to having a central data base and has planned to implement the Multi-purpose National Identity project, currently in pilot mode in 12 districts. The project is expected to be completed in three years, with more than 1bn cards to be supplied. We expect the tender to be divided among three or four players, with each having to supply at 60 million – 80 million cards p.a. Average realizations here would be much higher than SIM cards. The realization for 2G SIM cards is at Rs 30 each whereas MNICs can cost anywhere between Rs 50-75 each. Hence, we expect a positive impact on Bartronics. Expectation – Increased spending in education The Sarva Shikshan Abhiyan (SSA) allocation is expected to be increased from Rs 13.1 billion to Rs 15 billion, a 14.5 per cent y-o-y rise (last year, 23 per cent increase). This would be in line with the pending “The Right to Education Bill, 2008”. This seeks to provide every child of six to fourteen years with the right to free and compulsory education in a neighbourhood school until completion of elementary education. We feel this would open the road to more public-private partnership in education. Companies impacted Positive impact on Educomp, Everonn, NIIT, Aptech and Core Projects. Expectation – Use of IT/ITES for e-governance We expect the budget to throw up a roadmap to convert physical land records to electronic form over a period of time. The Right to Information (RTI) Act, 2005, makes it mandatory for all government departments to digitize physical documents so that information required by citizens could be provided to them within the stipulated time. Using ITES for scanning, digitalization, retrieval of documents would prove to be beneficial to companies in the government vertical and provide document-management services. Companies in the geo-spatial arena present across verticals and providing services like imaging, photogrammetry, map-making and finishing services to government would also benefit. Companies impacted Positive impact on companies providing geo-spatial services (Rolta, Infotech Enterprises) and document-management services (Vakrangee Software). For Infotech Enterprises, geo-spatial services provided 34.8 per cent of its FY09 revenues. Rolta obtained 44.3 per cent of its TTM revenue from geospatial services. (The report has been prepared by Tarun Sisodia, Naushil Shah and Atul Thakkar.) From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 17:52:27 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:52:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907020522n5eca8f91pbc5ada5e07fc4544@mail.gmail.com> Dear Readers , Many years back I had read that "Jana Gana Mana" or national anthem was written in praise of King & Queen Of England. There were quite a few justification about it written like the name of states were only those which were under English control etc etc. If someone has good knowledge about this 'controversy' , I would love to know . How true is it ? Regards Pawan Maybe dear friend Shuddha may write a note on this. From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 2 17:56:24 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:56:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> On 02-Jul-09, at 5:35 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > Companies impacted > > Positive impact on IT Services – Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL Tech, Tech > Mahindra, Mphasis and other outsourcing companies. > > Expectation - Introduction of MNIC (Multi-purpose National Identity > Cards) > > The government is committed to having a central data base and has > planned to implement the Multi-purpose National Identity project, > currently in pilot mode in 12 districts. The project is expected to be > completed in three years, with more than 1bn cards to be supplied. We > expect the tender to be divided among three or four players, with each > having to supply at 60 million – 80 million cards p.a. Average > realizations here would be much higher than SIM cards. The realization > for 2G SIM cards is at Rs 30 each whereas MNICs can cost anywhere > between Rs 50-75 each. Hence, we expect a positive impact on > Bartronics. Dear Taha, This is excellent investigative lead. Clearly this is big "Stimulus" package in one go to the major software companies. Then there will be maintenance and renewal packages. It would be worthwhile to make a list of companies that are benefiting massively from the new "security" discourses. Security panic and security enterprise is directly connected. Maybe media companies stake-holders could be analyzed. It seems that another layer to the earlier "military-industrial- complex" is being added via the security duct. A much heavier and discursively dispersed layer. It was cold war that was seen as giving such legitimacy to the earlier apparatus. Now it a generalised social panic around security that has given such incredible legitimacy to this grandiose, megalomanic ideas and hidden enterprise around it. Keep up the investigation. We need it more than ever before. love jeebesh From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 19:00:42 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... Message-ID: <122833.16979.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Javed, 1.What is the point of posting this article?"Seers Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian Constitution!"Are you trying to prove your own assertion that "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy" ? Can you explain how that relates with this discussion? 2.The second series of articles that you have posted are about Panchayat Raj.I am assuming you would have read all these articles.I will repeat the question I asked earlier.Can you explain which article of Panchayati Raj gives most of the power to high caste goons? 3.I am not advocating to adopt Indian Constitution BECAUSE IT IS A FRAMEWORK! So your contention that Sharia is also a framework is neither here nor there.Please pay more attention to my earlier mails to you.My contention is that Sharia does not have inalienable principles that can safeguard minorities and women against majority interpretation.So it has no place in an egalitarian society! Thanks Rahul --- On Thu, 7/2/09, M Javed wrote: > From: M Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... > To: "Rahul Asthana" > Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 4:57 PM > Dear Rahul, I will give a few > examples here: > > For "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy", > please see: > > Seers Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian > Constitution! > http://www.pluralindia.com/issues-in-secular-politics.php?id=205 > > For Panchayati system, see the following reports that refer > to the > exploitation of low-caste people and women under > panchayat: > http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv4n2/panchay.htm > http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Law/2003/panchayati-raj.htm > > For your last point (constitution...is supposed to provide > a basic > framework...), let me say that shariat is also nothing but > a basic > framework. Literally, sharia means a way or path. And you > can get > strayed from the path. > > J > > On 7/1/09, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > Ok so its time for truisms and platitudes now. > > "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy." > > Can you elaborate? > > "The panchayati system in  rural India still > gives most power to the > > high-caste goons." > > Can you elaborate? Can you quote the relevant articles > of the panchayati > > system which "give most power to high-caste goons"? > > > > Let me add that the function of constitution is not to > "keep everyone > > happy",whatever that means.It is supposed to provide a > basic framework and > > some non amendable laws.The basic framework and non > amendable laws cannot be > > altered,even if there is  majority will to do > so. > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed > wrote: > > > >> From: M Javed > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the > right to give fatwas? > >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > "sarai list" > >> > >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:09 PM > >> Dear Rahul > >> No law or system of governance is ideal for all. > Indian > >> constitution > >> does not keep everyone happy. For all practical > purposes, > >> democracy > >> does not guarantee justice (and even equality) to > all, > >> although it > >> maybe the most ideal system today. The panchayati > system in > >> rural > >> India still gives most power to the high-caste > goons. > >> Afghan mujahids (or criminal gangs) would have > used some > >> other law to > >> suppress women and kill innocent people if shariat > was not > >> there. Its > >> how you use the law in your favour, even if it > looks the > >> most > >> innocuous or balanced. > >> > >> J > >> > >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Rahul > Asthana > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Javed, > >> > Yes this answers my query. Now we can > discuss > >> further. > >> > 1.Do you think laws are made on a best case > scenario? > >> > 2.Do you think we can rely on the better > judgement of > >> the majority when we choose to be governed by a > law? > >> > 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE or not > for the > >> Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban kind of > way? > >> > It is precisely for the reason that many > >> interpretations are possible (a Taliban kind of > >> implementation is one of them) that non > Muslims,women etc > >> should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, suppose your > support > >> for Shariat passively enables an entity like > Taliban to come > >> to power.I am assuming you in a democracy you > would vote for > >> a political party who stands for Shariat) then > would you > >> accept some responsibilty for that or call them > "non > >> Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your > shoulders?This is > >> exactly how the rise of Taliban has played out in > Pakistan. > >> > This discussion may be academic because as > you have > >> already said that owing to  allegiance to > your religion > >> abiding by Shariat is your duty.No secular > jurisprudence can > >> provide you an alternative to that.So I thank you > for > >> discussing this with me anyway. > >> > See, the thing is,that liberal interpreters > of Shariat > >> want the ideology behind their islamic identity to > be just > >> another secular humanist philosophy so badly that > they think > >> they can just shut their eyes, click their heels > together, > >> and it will all happen just as they want to.Other > liberals > >> like Shuddha should realize the danger inherent in > this kind > >> of exercise. > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Rahul > >> > > >> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives > muftis the > >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > >> "sarai list" > >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM > >> >> Rahul, which shariat are you > >> >> referring to when you ask my opinion. > >> >> What is the definition of shariat which I > want to > >> be > >> >> governed with? I > >> >> have my own definition of shariat, and I > would be > >> very > >> >> happy to be > >> >> governed under that. My shariat is very > much from > >> Islam, > >> >> but it gives > >> >> queers the right to live happily. > >> >> > >> >> Hope that answers your query. > >> >> > >> >> Javed > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul > >> Asthana > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> > I don't think you have thought this > >> through,which is > >> >> why you are unable to make the > distinction between > >> "adopt > >> >> something from the shariat" and "being > governed > >> by > >> >> shariat".I just wanted to know whether > you are in > >> favor of > >> >> making "Shariat a basis for governance" > or > >> not.This is the > >> >> key .Everything else is just gravy. > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > Rahul > >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who > gives > >> muftis the > >> >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > , > >> >> "sarai list" > >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, > 10:40 PM > >> >> >> Dear Rahul > >> >> >> Here is my clearer position: I > have been > >> brought > >> >> up in an > >> >> >> orthodox > >> >> >> Muslim family where shariat > was/is > >> considered the > >> >> ultimate > >> >> >> law/norm to > >> >> >> follow for a Muslim. But in my > childhood > >> days it > >> >> wasn't > >> >> >> considered > >> >> >> such an evil thing (as Taliban > has made > >> it to be). > >> >> Let me > >> >> >> tell you, > >> >> >> following shariat in our daily > lives is > >> very > >> >> different from > >> >> >> making it > >> >> >> as a basis for governance. > Shariat as a > >> basis of > >> >> governance > >> >> >> is not > >> >> >> something fixed any way - it has > been > >> interpreted > >> >> >> differently in > >> >> >> different Islamic countries. > Indonesia, > >> Malaysia > >> >> or Turkey > >> >> >> also follow > >> >> >> shariat but their systems are > much more > >> liberal. > >> >> That is > >> >> >> why I insist: > >> >> >> please don't see shariat only > through the > >> eyes of > >> >> the > >> >> >> Taliban/Afghanistan. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Whatever name you give it, the > point is, > >> is your > >> >> system of > >> >> >> governance > >> >> >> favourable for you. At the > moment I am > >> governed > >> >> by > >> >> >> democracy, whether > >> >> >> I like it or not. There are many > things I > >> hate in > >> >> >> democracy, and would > >> >> >> love to change them one day (if > I could), > >> even > >> >> adopt > >> >> >> something from > >> >> >> the shariat. Is there something > wrong > >> with that? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Javed > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, > Rahul > >> >> Asthana > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> >> > Could you make your > position clearer > >> on this > >> >> issue? > >> >> >> You say- > >> >> >> > "My second minor difference > is: when > >> you say > >> >> "We are > >> >> >> not governed by > >> >> >> > the Shariat, and I hope we > never > >> will be". I > >> >> am not > >> >> >> sure if Shariat is > >> >> >> > all evil." > >> >> >> > So, do you wish or do you > not, to be > >> governed > >> >> by > >> >> >> Shariat? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > (Not wishing to be governed > by > >> Shariat does > >> >> not mean > >> >> >> that it is evil.It also does not > mean > >> that we > >> >> can't adopt > >> >> >> good things from it.) > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Thanks > >> >> >> > Rahul > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M > Javed > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: > [Reader-list] Who > >> gives > >> >> muftis the > >> >> >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata > Sengupta" > >> , > >> >> >> "sarai list" > >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, > 2009, > >> 3:46 PM > >> >> >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata > >> >> >> >> Actually I have a > slight > >> digression from > >> >> your > >> >> >> answer. I > >> >> >> >> don't care > >> >> >> >> what fatwas the muftis > give > >> within their > >> >> own > >> >> >> coterie (I'm > >> >> >> >> sure > >> >> >> >> homosexual behaviour > exists in > >> the > >> >> Deoband madrasa > >> >> >> too), > >> >> >> >> but the > >> >> >> >> problem comes when this > news is > >> flashed > >> >> on the > >> >> >> front-page: > >> >> >> >> it > >> >> >> >> basically sends a clear > signal > >> that > >> >> "Muslims" in > >> >> >> general > >> >> >> >> are against > >> >> >> >> homo-sexuality and this > is yet > >> another > >> >> example of > >> >> >> how > >> >> >> >> bigoted the > >> >> >> >> entire community is, > and there > >> are > >> >> absolutely no > >> >> >> liberals > >> >> >> >> (or > >> >> >> >> queer-friendly) people > among the > >> Muslims > >> >> and so > >> >> >> on, which > >> >> >> >> is not the > >> >> >> >> case. In a way, any > >> controversial fatwa > >> >> from the > >> >> >> Deoband > >> >> >> >> (whichever > >> >> >> >> damn topic) is taken by > the > >> media as a > >> >> hot saucy > >> >> >> news to be > >> >> >> >> flashed to > >> >> >> >> show the backwardness > of > >> Muslims. But my > >> >> question > >> >> >> is > >> >> >> >> (especially to > >> >> >> >> the mainstream media), > do these > >> damn > >> >> fatwas > >> >> >> really > >> >> >> >> represent the > >> >> >> >> entire Muslim > community? Are > >> they so > >> >> important > >> >> >> that you > >> >> >> >> have to flash > >> >> >> >> them as headlines. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> My second minor > difference is: > >> when you > >> >> say "We > >> >> >> are not > >> >> >> >> governed by > >> >> >> >> the Shariat, and I hope > we never > >> will > >> >> be". I am > >> >> >> not sure if > >> >> >> >> Shariat is > >> >> >> >> all evil. Although I > don't > >> practice it > >> >> strictly, > >> >> >> but I know > >> >> >> >> it has > >> >> >> >> many good things in it > which > >> make at > >> >> least the > >> >> >> good part of > >> >> >> >> Islam > >> >> >> >> alive. Don't see it > only through > >> the eyes > >> >> of the > >> >> >> Taliban. > >> >> >> >> Whether we > >> >> >> >> get governed by the > shariat or > >> not, I > >> >> hope we > >> >> >> could at > >> >> >> >> least adopt the > >> >> >> >> good things about it. > And > >> Shariat is not > >> >> a fixed > >> >> >> set of > >> >> >> >> rules; it can > >> >> >> >> be and should be open > for > >> interpretation, > >> >> which > >> >> >> these > >> >> >> >> muftis have > >> >> >> >> stopped doing. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Thanks any way. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Javed > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at > 10:53 > >> PM, > >> >> Shuddhabrata > >> >> >> >> Sengupta > >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> >> >> > Thank you for > forwarding > >> this. I > >> >> don't know > >> >> >> who gives > >> >> >> >> these muftis and > >> >> >> >> > tuftis the right > to give > >> fatwas, I > >> >> think they > >> >> >> give it > >> >> >> >> to themselves. And > >> >> >> >> > since they > routinely issue > >> fatwas on > >> >> all > >> >> >> manner of > >> >> >> >> ridiculous matters, we > >> >> >> >> > might as well > treat this > >> one too > >> >> with the > >> >> >> lack of > >> >> >> >> seriousness that it > >> >> >> >> > deserves. > >> >> >> >> > We are not > governed by the > >> Shariat, > >> >> and I > >> >> >> hope we > >> >> >> >> never will be. Since > we > >> >> >> >> > are not governed > by the > >> Shariat, it > >> >> hardly > >> >> >> matters > >> >> >> >> whether or not Maulana > >> >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik > Madrasi > >> thinks > >> >> homosexuality is > >> >> >> an > >> >> >> >> offence under Shariat > Law. > >> >> >> >> > Not even the > relevant (and > >> >> anachronistic, > >> >> >> misogynist > >> >> >> >> and patrarchal) > >> >> >> >> > sections of > Personal Law in > >> matters > >> >> of > >> >> >> marriage and > >> >> >> >> inheritance that > govern > >> >> >> >> > the lives of > Indian Muslims > >> have > >> >> anything to > >> >> >> say about > >> >> >> >> sexual relations in > >> >> >> >> > private between > consenting > >> adults. > >> >> So, not > >> >> >> even from > >> >> >> >> the completely > >> >> >> >> > unacceptabe (to > me) > >> standpoint of > >> >> defending a > >> >> >> separate > >> >> >> >> civil code for > >> >> >> >> > Muslims is it > relevant to > >> discuss > >> >> the fate of > >> >> >> Section > >> >> >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi > >> >> >> >> > is barking up the > wrong > >> legal tree. > >> >> >> >> > Finally, a small > >> historical > >> >> digression. > >> >> >> Section 377 > >> >> >> >> was introduced by the > >> >> >> >> > British Colonial > >> Administration in > >> >> India. > >> >> >> Which, as > >> >> >> >> far as i recall, was > not > >> >> >> >> > exactly a model > Islamic > >> state. In > >> >> fact, the > >> >> >> British > >> >> >> >> Colonial authorities > >> >> >> >> > presided over the > decline > >> and > >> >> destruction of > >> >> >> >> 'nominally' Muslim > political > >> >> >> >> > power in India. > if, for the > >> roughly > >> >> seven > >> >> >> hundred > >> >> >> >> years preceding the > advent > >> >> >> >> > of British rule in > India, > >> when the > >> >> territory > >> >> >> happened > >> >> >> >> to be ruled largely by > >> >> >> >> > Muslim rulers, > (some of > >> whom claimed > >> >> to be > >> >> >> guided by > >> >> >> >> the Shariat) it was > not > >> >> >> >> > found necessary to > invoke > >> a > >> >> draconian law > >> >> >> like section > >> >> >> >> 377, are we to then > >> >> >> >> > understand that > the > >> British > >> >> Colonial > >> >> >> authority was > >> >> >> >> more 'Islamic' than > the > >> >> >> >> > Mughal rulers, > than the > >> rulers of > >> >> the Delhi > >> >> >> sultanate, > >> >> >> >> and many other kings > >> >> >> >> > and princes of a > Muslim > >> persuasion. > >> >> >> >> > And finally, how > exactly > >> would we > >> >> remember a > >> >> >> figure > >> >> >> >> like the great Ghazi > of > >> >> >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of > Ghazna > >> and his > >> >> love for > >> >> >> Ayaz, or > >> >> >> >> Razia Sultana and her > >> >> >> >> > love for women, or > the > >> distinctly > >> >> queer > >> >> >> ecstasies of > >> >> >> >> Amir Khusrau and > >> >> >> >> > Sarmad. Each one > of these > >> people > >> >> saw > >> >> >> themselves as > >> >> >> >> devout Muslim. And > there > >> >> >> >> > was nothing > unusual in > >> their being > >> >> queer > >> >> >> Muslims. > >> >> >> >> Islamicate societies > all > >> >> >> >> > over the world > have been > >> >> historically far > >> >> >> more > >> >> >> >> tolerant of various > different > >> >> >> >> > kinds of same-sex > >> relationships both > >> >> male and > >> >> >> female, > >> >> >> >> and transgender > >> >> >> >> > identities, than > societies > >> largely > >> >> anchored > >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> Christian values have > been. > >> >> >> >> > Islam is a sex > positive > >> religion. > >> >> It > >> >> >> celebrates the > >> >> >> >> dignity, beauty and > >> >> >> >> > diversity of the > human body > >> and all > >> >> its > >> >> >> desires. There > >> >> >> >> is (and always has > >> >> >> >> > been) a strong > case for a > >> queer > >> >> theology of > >> >> >> liberation > >> >> >> >> that is rooted within > >> >> >> >> > the Islamicate > cultural > >> universe, > >> >> and it has > >> >> >> had a > >> >> >> >> long history, and it > will > >> >> >> >> > have a long > future. > >> >> >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is > probably > >> just as > >> >> ignorant > >> >> >> of the > >> >> >> >> traditions he claims > are > >> >> >> >> > his own as Praveen > Togadia, > >> the > >> >> firebrand > >> >> >> leader of > >> >> >> >> the Vishwa Hindu > >> >> >> >> > Parishad, is. They > would > >> probably > >> >> make an > >> >> >> excellent > >> >> >> >> couple, locked happily > >> >> >> >> > together within > their > >> private closet > >> >> of > >> >> >> paranoia. > >> >> >> >> > Meanwhile, let us > hope that > >> Veerappa > >> >> Moily's > >> >> >> supposed > >> >> >> >> u-turn is only a > >> >> >> >> > digression, and > that the > >> provisions > >> >> in > >> >> >> Section 377 > >> >> >> >> that criminalize the > >> >> >> >> > behaviour of > consenting > >> adults in > >> >> private > >> >> >> (which > >> >> >> >> should not be the > business > >> >> >> >> > of the > state)  are > >> consigned > >> >> finally to > >> >> >> where they > >> >> >> >> belong - the dustbin > of > >> >> >> >> > history. > >> >> >> >> > And > congratulations to all > >> those who > >> >> paraded > >> >> >> on the > >> >> >> >> streets of Delhi, > >> >> >> >> > Bangalore, Madras > and > >> Calcutta. The > >> >> future > >> >> >> belongs to > >> >> >> >> you (and us all) not > >> >> >> >> > to the likes of > Maulana > >> Madrasi. > >> >> >> >> > regards > >> >> >> >> > Shuddha > >> >> >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at > 3:54 PM, M > >> Javed > >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Gay sex against > tenets of > >> Islam: > >> >> Deoband > >> >> >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 > hrs IST, > >> PTI > >> >> >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: > A > >> leading Islamic > >> >> seminary > >> >> >> on > >> >> >> >> Monday opposed > >> >> >> >> > Centre's move to > repeal a > >> >> controversial > >> >> >> section of the > >> >> >> >> penal law which > >> >> >> >> > criminalises > homosexuality > >> saying > >> >> unnatural > >> >> >> sex is > >> >> >> >> against the tenets of > >> >> >> >> > Islam. > >> >> >> >> > "Homosexuality is > an > >> offence under > >> >> Shariat > >> >> >> Law and > >> >> >> >> haram (prohibited) > >> >> >> >> > in Islam," deputy > vice > >> chancellor of > >> >> the > >> >> >> Darul Uloom > >> >> >> >> Deoband Maulana > >> >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik > Madrasi said. > >> >> >> >> > Madrasi also asked > the > >> government > >> >> not to > >> >> >> repeal > >> >> >> >> section 377 of IPC > >> >> >> >> > which > criminalises > >> homosexuality. > >> >> >> >> > His objection came > a day > >> after law > >> >> minister > >> >> >> Veerappa > >> >> >> >> Moily said a > >> >> >> >> > decision on > repealing the > >> section > >> >> would be > >> >> >> taken only > >> >> >> >> after > >> >> >> >> > considering > concerns of all > >> sections > >> >> of the > >> >> >> society, > >> >> >> >> including > >> >> >> >> > religious groups > like the > >> church. > >> >> >> >> > Terming gay > activities as > >> crime, > >> >> Maulana > >> >> >> Salim Kasmi, > >> >> >> >> vice-president > >> >> >> >> > of the All-India > Muslim > >> Personal Law > >> >> Board > >> >> >> (AIMPLB), > >> >> >> >> said > >> >> >> >> > homosexuality is > punishable > >> under > >> >> Islamic law > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> section 377 of IPC > >> >> >> >> > should not be > tampered. > >> >> >> >> > Maulana Mohd > Sufiyan Kasmi, > >> an > >> >> AIMPLB member, > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, > >> >> >> >> > president of Uttar > Pradesh > >> Imam > >> >> Organisation > >> >> >> have also > >> >> >> >> expressed > >> >> >> >> > similar views on > the > >> issue. > >> >> >> >> > Kasmi said it > would be > >> harmful for > >> >> the > >> >> >> society to > >> >> >> >> legalise gay sex. > >> >> >> >> > Buoyed by the news > that the > >> Centre > >> >> is > >> >> >> considering > >> >> >> >> repealing the > >> >> >> >> > controversial > section of > >> the IPC, > >> >> members of > >> >> >> the gay > >> >> >> >> community on > >> >> >> >> > Sunday held > parades in > >> several > >> >> cities. > >> >> >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> > reader-list: an > open > >> discussion list > >> >> on media > >> >> >> and the > >> >> >> >> city. > >> >> >> >> > Critiques & > >> Collaborations > >> >> >> >> > To subscribe: send > an email > >> to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> with subscribe > >> >> >> >> > in the subject > header. > >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: > >> >> >> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> > List archive: > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Shuddhabrata > Sengupta > >> >> >> >> > The Sarai > Programme at > >> CSDS > >> >> >> >> > Raqs Media > Collective > >> >> >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> > www.sarai.net > >> >> >> >> > > >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open > discussion > >> list on > >> >> media and > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> city. > >> >> >> >> Critiques & > Collaborations > >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an > email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> with subscribe in the > subject > >> header. > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> List archive: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 19:26:04 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:26:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... In-Reply-To: <122833.16979.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <122833.16979.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rahul, I have read those links, I hope you read them too (and I said these are only examples - there can be more). Through these I simply wanted to show you that some people will never be happy with a system of governance because it doesn't suit them. And some people will always take advantage of it, or even twist it in their interest. Its not a specific article of Panchayati raj that's important. We are made to believe that Panchayati raj is the people's local governance that empowers them. But in reality it does not allow to them to rise above the feudalism and casteism. Similarly, Indian constitution presents India as a "secular" nation, but some people don't like that status and would like to change it. If my arguments are sounding here and there, lets close the discussion here. I would however be curious to know (as you say that "sharia has no place in the egalitarian society"), have you read shariah yourself? Do you know what it is? And how people have interpreted it differently in the different times, sometimes exactly to make it egalitarian? J On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Javed, > > 1.What is the point of posting this article?"Seers Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian Constitution!"Are you trying to prove your own assertion that "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy" ? Can you explain how that relates with this discussion? > 2.The second series of articles that you have posted are about Panchayat Raj.I am assuming you would have read all these articles.I will repeat the question I asked earlier.Can you explain which article of Panchayati Raj gives most of the power to high caste goons? > 3.I am not advocating to adopt Indian Constitution BECAUSE IT IS A FRAMEWORK! So your contention that Sharia is also a framework is neither here nor there.Please pay more attention to my earlier mails to you.My contention is that Sharia does not have inalienable principles that can safeguard minorities and women against majority interpretation.So it has no place in an egalitarian society! > > Thanks > Rahul > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, M Javed wrote: > >> From: M Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" >> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 4:57 PM >> Dear Rahul, I will give a few >> examples here: >> >> For "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy", >> please see: >> >> Seers Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian >> Constitution! >> http://www.pluralindia.com/issues-in-secular-politics.php?id=205 >> >> For Panchayati system, see the following reports that refer >> to the >> exploitation of low-caste people and women under >> panchayat: >> http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv4n2/panchay.htm >> http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Law/2003/panchayati-raj.htm >> >> For your last point (constitution...is supposed to provide >> a basic >> framework...), let me say that shariat is also nothing but >> a basic >> framework. Literally, sharia means a way or path. And you >> can get >> strayed from the path. >> >> J >> >> On 7/1/09, Rahul Asthana >> wrote: >> > >> > Ok so its time for truisms and platitudes now. >> > "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy." >> > Can you elaborate? >> > "The panchayati system in  rural India still >> gives most power to the >> > high-caste goons." >> > Can you elaborate? Can you quote the relevant articles >> of the panchayati >> > system which "give most power to high-caste goons"? >> > >> > Let me add that the function of constitution is not to >> "keep everyone >> > happy",whatever that means.It is supposed to provide a >> basic framework and >> > some non amendable laws.The basic framework and non >> amendable laws cannot be >> > altered,even if there is  majority will to do >> so. >> > >> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: M Javed >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the >> right to give fatwas? >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> "sarai list" >> >> >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:09 PM >> >> Dear Rahul >> >> No law or system of governance is ideal for all. >> Indian >> >> constitution >> >> does not keep everyone happy. For all practical >> purposes, >> >> democracy >> >> does not guarantee justice (and even equality) to >> all, >> >> although it >> >> maybe the most ideal system today. The panchayati >> system in >> >> rural >> >> India still gives most power to the high-caste >> goons. >> >> Afghan mujahids (or criminal gangs) would have >> used some >> >> other law to >> >> suppress women and kill innocent people if shariat >> was not >> >> there. Its >> >> how you use the law in your favour, even if it >> looks the >> >> most >> >> innocuous or balanced. >> >> >> >> J >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Rahul >> Asthana >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Javed, >> >> > Yes this answers my query. Now we can >> discuss >> >> further. >> >> > 1.Do you think laws are made on a best case >> scenario? >> >> > 2.Do you think we can rely on the better >> judgement of >> >> the majority when we choose to be governed by a >> law? >> >> > 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE or not >> for the >> >> Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban kind of >> way? >> >> > It is precisely for the reason that many >> >> interpretations are possible (a Taliban kind of >> >> implementation is one of them) that non >> Muslims,women etc >> >> should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, suppose your >> support >> >> for Shariat passively enables an entity like >> Taliban to come >> >> to power.I am assuming you in a democracy you >> would vote for >> >> a political party who stands for Shariat) then >> would you >> >> accept some responsibilty for that or call them >> "non >> >> Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your >> shoulders?This is >> >> exactly how the rise of Taliban has played out in >> Pakistan. >> >> > This discussion may be academic because as >> you have >> >> already said that owing to  allegiance to >> your religion >> >> abiding by Shariat is your duty.No secular >> jurisprudence can >> >> provide you an alternative to that.So I thank you >> for >> >> discussing this with me anyway. >> >> > See, the thing is,that liberal interpreters >> of Shariat >> >> want the ideology behind their islamic identity to >> be just >> >> another secular humanist philosophy so badly that >> they think >> >> they can just shut their eyes, click their heels >> together, >> >> and it will all happen just as they want to.Other >> liberals >> >> like Shuddha should realize the danger inherent in >> this kind >> >> of exercise. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Rahul >> >> > >> >> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> From: M Javed >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives >> muftis the >> >> right to give fatwas? >> >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , >> >> "sarai list" >> >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM >> >> >> Rahul, which shariat are you >> >> >> referring to when you ask my opinion. >> >> >> What is the definition of shariat which I >> want to >> >> be >> >> >> governed with? I >> >> >> have my own definition of shariat, and I >> would be >> >> very >> >> >> happy to be >> >> >> governed under that. My shariat is very >> much from >> >> Islam, >> >> >> but it gives >> >> >> queers the right to live happily. >> >> >> >> >> >> Hope that answers your query. >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Rahul >> >> Asthana >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> >> > I don't think you have thought this >> >> through,which is >> >> >> why you are unable to make the >> distinction between >> >> "adopt >> >> >> something from the shariat" and "being >> governed >> >> by >> >> >> shariat".I just wanted to know whether >> you are in >> >> favor of >> >> >> making "Shariat a basis for governance" >> or >> >> not.This is the >> >> >> key .Everything else is just gravy. >> >> >> > Thanks >> >> >> > Rahul >> >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M Javed >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> From: M Javed >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who >> gives >> >> muftis the >> >> >> right to give fatwas? >> >> >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >> , >> >> >> "sarai list" >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, >> 10:40 PM >> >> >> >> Dear Rahul >> >> >> >> Here is my clearer position: I >> have been >> >> brought >> >> >> up in an >> >> >> >> orthodox >> >> >> >> Muslim family where shariat >> was/is >> >> considered the >> >> >> ultimate >> >> >> >> law/norm to >> >> >> >> follow for a Muslim. But in my >> childhood >> >> days it >> >> >> wasn't >> >> >> >> considered >> >> >> >> such an evil thing (as Taliban >> has made >> >> it to be). >> >> >> Let me >> >> >> >> tell you, >> >> >> >> following shariat in our daily >> lives is >> >> very >> >> >> different from >> >> >> >> making it >> >> >> >> as a basis for governance. >> Shariat as a >> >> basis of >> >> >> governance >> >> >> >> is not >> >> >> >> something fixed any way - it has >> been >> >> interpreted >> >> >> >> differently in >> >> >> >> different Islamic countries. >> Indonesia, >> >> Malaysia >> >> >> or Turkey >> >> >> >> also follow >> >> >> >> shariat but their systems are >> much more >> >> liberal. >> >> >> That is >> >> >> >> why I insist: >> >> >> >> please don't see shariat only >> through the >> >> eyes of >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> Taliban/Afghanistan. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Whatever name you give it, the >> point is, >> >> is your >> >> >> system of >> >> >> >> governance >> >> >> >> favourable for you. At the >> moment I am >> >> governed >> >> >> by >> >> >> >> democracy, whether >> >> >> >> I like it or not. There are many >> things I >> >> hate in >> >> >> >> democracy, and would >> >> >> >> love to change them one day (if >> I could), >> >> even >> >> >> adopt >> >> >> >> something from >> >> >> >> the shariat. Is there something >> wrong >> >> with that? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 6:55 PM, >> Rahul >> >> >> Asthana >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> >> >> > Could you make your >> position clearer >> >> on this >> >> >> issue? >> >> >> >> You say- >> >> >> >> > "My second minor difference >> is: when >> >> you say >> >> >> "We are >> >> >> >> not governed by >> >> >> >> > the Shariat, and I hope we >> never >> >> will be". I >> >> >> am not >> >> >> >> sure if Shariat is >> >> >> >> > all evil." >> >> >> >> > So, do you wish or do you >> not, to be >> >> governed >> >> >> by >> >> >> >> Shariat? >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > (Not wishing to be governed >> by >> >> Shariat does >> >> >> not mean >> >> >> >> that it is evil.It also does not >> mean >> >> that we >> >> >> can't adopt >> >> >> >> good things from it.) >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Thanks >> >> >> >> > Rahul >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M >> Javed >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> From: M Javed >> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: >> [Reader-list] Who >> >> gives >> >> >> muftis the >> >> >> >> right to give fatwas? >> >> >> >> >> To: "Shuddhabrata >> Sengupta" >> >> , >> >> >> >> "sarai list" >> >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, >> 2009, >> >> 3:46 PM >> >> >> >> >> Dear Shuddhabrata >> >> >> >> >> Actually I have a >> slight >> >> digression from >> >> >> your >> >> >> >> answer. I >> >> >> >> >> don't care >> >> >> >> >> what fatwas the muftis >> give >> >> within their >> >> >> own >> >> >> >> coterie (I'm >> >> >> >> >> sure >> >> >> >> >> homosexual behaviour >> exists in >> >> the >> >> >> Deoband madrasa >> >> >> >> too), >> >> >> >> >> but the >> >> >> >> >> problem comes when this >> news is >> >> flashed >> >> >> on the >> >> >> >> front-page: >> >> >> >> >> it >> >> >> >> >> basically sends a clear >> signal >> >> that >> >> >> "Muslims" in >> >> >> >> general >> >> >> >> >> are against >> >> >> >> >> homo-sexuality and this >> is yet >> >> another >> >> >> example of >> >> >> >> how >> >> >> >> >> bigoted the >> >> >> >> >> entire community is, >> and there >> >> are >> >> >> absolutely no >> >> >> >> liberals >> >> >> >> >> (or >> >> >> >> >> queer-friendly) people >> among the >> >> Muslims >> >> >> and so >> >> >> >> on, which >> >> >> >> >> is not the >> >> >> >> >> case. In a way, any >> >> controversial fatwa >> >> >> from the >> >> >> >> Deoband >> >> >> >> >> (whichever >> >> >> >> >> damn topic) is taken by >> the >> >> media as a >> >> >> hot saucy >> >> >> >> news to be >> >> >> >> >> flashed to >> >> >> >> >> show the backwardness >> of >> >> Muslims. But my >> >> >> question >> >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> (especially to >> >> >> >> >> the mainstream media), >> do these >> >> damn >> >> >> fatwas >> >> >> >> really >> >> >> >> >> represent the >> >> >> >> >> entire Muslim >> community? Are >> >> they so >> >> >> important >> >> >> >> that you >> >> >> >> >> have to flash >> >> >> >> >> them as headlines. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> My second minor >> difference is: >> >> when you >> >> >> say "We >> >> >> >> are not >> >> >> >> >> governed by >> >> >> >> >> the Shariat, and I hope >> we never >> >> will >> >> >> be". I am >> >> >> >> not sure if >> >> >> >> >> Shariat is >> >> >> >> >> all evil. Although I >> don't >> >> practice it >> >> >> strictly, >> >> >> >> but I know >> >> >> >> >> it has >> >> >> >> >> many good things in it >> which >> >> make at >> >> >> least the >> >> >> >> good part of >> >> >> >> >> Islam >> >> >> >> >> alive. Don't see it >> only through >> >> the eyes >> >> >> of the >> >> >> >> Taliban. >> >> >> >> >> Whether we >> >> >> >> >> get governed by the >> shariat or >> >> not, I >> >> >> hope we >> >> >> >> could at >> >> >> >> >> least adopt the >> >> >> >> >> good things about it. >> And >> >> Shariat is not >> >> >> a fixed >> >> >> >> set of >> >> >> >> >> rules; it can >> >> >> >> >> be and should be open >> for >> >> interpretation, >> >> >> which >> >> >> >> these >> >> >> >> >> muftis have >> >> >> >> >> stopped doing. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks any way. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at >> 10:53 >> >> PM, >> >> >> Shuddhabrata >> >> >> >> >> Sengupta >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> >> >> >> > Thank you for >> forwarding >> >> this. I >> >> >> don't know >> >> >> >> who gives >> >> >> >> >> these muftis and >> >> >> >> >> > tuftis the right >> to give >> >> fatwas, I >> >> >> think they >> >> >> >> give it >> >> >> >> >> to themselves. And >> >> >> >> >> > since they >> routinely issue >> >> fatwas on >> >> >> all >> >> >> >> manner of >> >> >> >> >> ridiculous matters, we >> >> >> >> >> > might as well >> treat this >> >> one too >> >> >> with the >> >> >> >> lack of >> >> >> >> >> seriousness that it >> >> >> >> >> > deserves. >> >> >> >> >> > We are not >> governed by the >> >> Shariat, >> >> >> and I >> >> >> >> hope we >> >> >> >> >> never will be. Since >> we >> >> >> >> >> > are not governed >> by the >> >> Shariat, it >> >> >> hardly >> >> >> >> matters >> >> >> >> >> whether or not Maulana >> >> >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik >> Madrasi >> >> thinks >> >> >> homosexuality is >> >> >> >> an >> >> >> >> >> offence under Shariat >> Law. >> >> >> >> >> > Not even the >> relevant (and >> >> >> anachronistic, >> >> >> >> misogynist >> >> >> >> >> and patrarchal) >> >> >> >> >> > sections of >> Personal Law in >> >> matters >> >> >> of >> >> >> >> marriage and >> >> >> >> >> inheritance that >> govern >> >> >> >> >> > the lives of >> Indian Muslims >> >> have >> >> >> anything to >> >> >> >> say about >> >> >> >> >> sexual relations in >> >> >> >> >> > private between >> consenting >> >> adults. >> >> >> So, not >> >> >> >> even from >> >> >> >> >> the completely >> >> >> >> >> > unacceptabe (to >> me) >> >> standpoint of >> >> >> defending a >> >> >> >> separate >> >> >> >> >> civil code for >> >> >> >> >> > Muslims is it >> relevant to >> >> discuss >> >> >> the fate of >> >> >> >> Section >> >> >> >> >> 377. Maulana Madrasi >> >> >> >> >> > is barking up the >> wrong >> >> legal tree. >> >> >> >> >> > Finally, a small >> >> historical >> >> >> digression. >> >> >> >> Section 377 >> >> >> >> >> was introduced by the >> >> >> >> >> > British Colonial >> >> Administration in >> >> >> India. >> >> >> >> Which, as >> >> >> >> >> far as i recall, was >> not >> >> >> >> >> > exactly a model >> Islamic >> >> state. In >> >> >> fact, the >> >> >> >> British >> >> >> >> >> Colonial authorities >> >> >> >> >> > presided over the >> decline >> >> and >> >> >> destruction of >> >> >> >> >> 'nominally' Muslim >> political >> >> >> >> >> > power in India. >> if, for the >> >> roughly >> >> >> seven >> >> >> >> hundred >> >> >> >> >> years preceding the >> advent >> >> >> >> >> > of British rule in >> India, >> >> when the >> >> >> territory >> >> >> >> happened >> >> >> >> >> to be ruled largely by >> >> >> >> >> > Muslim rulers, >> (some of >> >> whom claimed >> >> >> to be >> >> >> >> guided by >> >> >> >> >> the Shariat) it was >> not >> >> >> >> >> > found necessary to >> invoke >> >> a >> >> >> draconian law >> >> >> >> like section >> >> >> >> >> 377, are we to then >> >> >> >> >> > understand that >> the >> >> British >> >> >> Colonial >> >> >> >> authority was >> >> >> >> >> more 'Islamic' than >> the >> >> >> >> >> > Mughal rulers, >> than the >> >> rulers of >> >> >> the Delhi >> >> >> >> sultanate, >> >> >> >> >> and many other kings >> >> >> >> >> > and princes of a >> Muslim >> >> persuasion. >> >> >> >> >> > And finally, how >> exactly >> >> would we >> >> >> remember a >> >> >> >> figure >> >> >> >> >> like the great Ghazi >> of >> >> >> >> >> > Islam - Mahmud of >> Ghazna >> >> and his >> >> >> love for >> >> >> >> Ayaz, or >> >> >> >> >> Razia Sultana and her >> >> >> >> >> > love for women, or >> the >> >> distinctly >> >> >> queer >> >> >> >> ecstasies of >> >> >> >> >> Amir Khusrau and >> >> >> >> >> > Sarmad. Each one >> of these >> >> people >> >> >> saw >> >> >> >> themselves as >> >> >> >> >> devout Muslim. And >> there >> >> >> >> >> > was nothing >> unusual in >> >> their being >> >> >> queer >> >> >> >> Muslims. >> >> >> >> >> Islamicate societies >> all >> >> >> >> >> > over the world >> have been >> >> >> historically far >> >> >> >> more >> >> >> >> >> tolerant of various >> different >> >> >> >> >> > kinds of same-sex >> >> relationships both >> >> >> male and >> >> >> >> female, >> >> >> >> >> and transgender >> >> >> >> >> > identities, than >> societies >> >> largely >> >> >> anchored >> >> >> >> in >> >> >> >> >> Christian values have >> been. >> >> >> >> >> > Islam is a sex >> positive >> >> religion. >> >> >> It >> >> >> >> celebrates the >> >> >> >> >> dignity, beauty and >> >> >> >> >> > diversity of the >> human body >> >> and all >> >> >> its >> >> >> >> desires. There >> >> >> >> >> is (and always has >> >> >> >> >> > been) a strong >> case for a >> >> queer >> >> >> theology of >> >> >> >> liberation >> >> >> >> >> that is rooted within >> >> >> >> >> > the Islamicate >> cultural >> >> universe, >> >> >> and it has >> >> >> >> had a >> >> >> >> >> long history, and it >> will >> >> >> >> >> > have a long >> future. >> >> >> >> >> > Maulana Madrasi is >> probably >> >> just as >> >> >> ignorant >> >> >> >> of the >> >> >> >> >> traditions he claims >> are >> >> >> >> >> > his own as Praveen >> Togadia, >> >> the >> >> >> firebrand >> >> >> >> leader of >> >> >> >> >> the Vishwa Hindu >> >> >> >> >> > Parishad, is. They >> would >> >> probably >> >> >> make an >> >> >> >> excellent >> >> >> >> >> couple, locked happily >> >> >> >> >> > together within >> their >> >> private closet >> >> >> of >> >> >> >> paranoia. >> >> >> >> >> > Meanwhile, let us >> hope that >> >> Veerappa >> >> >> Moily's >> >> >> >> supposed >> >> >> >> >> u-turn is only a >> >> >> >> >> > digression, and >> that the >> >> provisions >> >> >> in >> >> >> >> Section 377 >> >> >> >> >> that criminalize the >> >> >> >> >> > behaviour of >> consenting >> >> adults in >> >> >> private >> >> >> >> (which >> >> >> >> >> should not be the >> business >> >> >> >> >> > of the >> state)  are >> >> consigned >> >> >> finally to >> >> >> >> where they >> >> >> >> >> belong - the dustbin >> of >> >> >> >> >> > history. >> >> >> >> >> > And >> congratulations to all >> >> those who >> >> >> paraded >> >> >> >> on the >> >> >> >> >> streets of Delhi, >> >> >> >> >> > Bangalore, Madras >> and >> >> Calcutta. The >> >> >> future >> >> >> >> belongs to >> >> >> >> >> you (and us all) not >> >> >> >> >> > to the likes of >> Maulana >> >> Madrasi. >> >> >> >> >> > regards >> >> >> >> >> > Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> > On 29-Jun-09, at >> 3:54 PM, M >> >> Javed >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > Gay sex against >> tenets of >> >> Islam: >> >> >> Deoband >> >> >> >> >> > 29 Jun 2009, 1353 >> hrs IST, >> >> PTI >> >> >> >> >> > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: >> A >> >> leading Islamic >> >> >> seminary >> >> >> >> on >> >> >> >> >> Monday opposed >> >> >> >> >> > Centre's move to >> repeal a >> >> >> controversial >> >> >> >> section of the >> >> >> >> >> penal law which >> >> >> >> >> > criminalises >> homosexuality >> >> saying >> >> >> unnatural >> >> >> >> sex is >> >> >> >> >> against the tenets of >> >> >> >> >> > Islam. >> >> >> >> >> > "Homosexuality is >> an >> >> offence under >> >> >> Shariat >> >> >> >> Law and >> >> >> >> >> haram (prohibited) >> >> >> >> >> > in Islam," deputy >> vice >> >> chancellor of >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> Darul Uloom >> >> >> >> >> Deoband Maulana >> >> >> >> >> > Abdul Khalik >> Madrasi said. >> >> >> >> >> > Madrasi also asked >> the >> >> government >> >> >> not to >> >> >> >> repeal >> >> >> >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> >> >> >> > which >> criminalises >> >> homosexuality. >> >> >> >> >> > His objection came >> a day >> >> after law >> >> >> minister >> >> >> >> Veerappa >> >> >> >> >> Moily said a >> >> >> >> >> > decision on >> repealing the >> >> section >> >> >> would be >> >> >> >> taken only >> >> >> >> >> after >> >> >> >> >> > considering >> concerns of all >> >> sections >> >> >> of the >> >> >> >> society, >> >> >> >> >> including >> >> >> >> >> > religious groups >> like the >> >> church. >> >> >> >> >> > Terming gay >> activities as >> >> crime, >> >> >> Maulana >> >> >> >> Salim Kasmi, >> >> >> >> >> vice-president >> >> >> >> >> > of the All-India >> Muslim >> >> Personal Law >> >> >> Board >> >> >> >> (AIMPLB), >> >> >> >> >> said >> >> >> >> >> > homosexuality is >> punishable >> >> under >> >> >> Islamic law >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> >> section 377 of IPC >> >> >> >> >> > should not be >> tampered. >> >> >> >> >> > Maulana Mohd >> Sufiyan Kasmi, >> >> an >> >> >> AIMPLB member, >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> >> Mufti Zulfikar, >> >> >> >> >> > president of Uttar >> Pradesh >> >> Imam >> >> >> Organisation >> >> >> >> have also >> >> >> >> >> expressed >> >> >> >> >> > similar views on >> the >> >> issue. >> >> >> >> >> > Kasmi said it >> would be >> >> harmful for >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> society to >> >> >> >> >> legalise gay sex. >> >> >> >> >> > Buoyed by the news >> that the >> >> Centre >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> considering >> >> >> >> >> repealing the >> >> >> >> >> > controversial >> section of >> >> the IPC, >> >> >> members of >> >> >> >> the gay >> >> >> >> >> community on >> >> >> >> >> > Sunday held >> parades in >> >> several >> >> >> cities. >> >> >> >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> > reader-list: an >> open >> >> discussion list >> >> >> on media >> >> >> >> and the >> >> >> >> >> city. >> >> >> >> >> > Critiques & >> >> Collaborations >> >> >> >> >> > To subscribe: send >> an email >> >> to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> >> >> >> with subscribe >> >> >> >> >> > in the subject >> header. >> >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> >> >> >> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > Shuddhabrata >> Sengupta >> >> >> >> >> > The Sarai >> Programme at >> >> CSDS >> >> >> >> >> > Raqs Media >> Collective >> >> >> >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net >> >> >> >> >> > www.sarai.net >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open >> discussion >> >> list on >> >> >> media and >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> city. >> >> >> >> >> Critiques & >> Collaborations >> >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an >> email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> >> >> >> with subscribe in the >> subject >> >> header. >> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >> >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> >> List archive: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 19:34:29 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 20:04:29 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Vijay Prashad's thoughts on facebook/twitter Message-ID: Vijay Prashad wrote in this op-ed "Made for Revolution: Iran and Us" http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad07012009.html I agree with most of the op-ed, except this sentence--> "Our Facebook updates and Twitter squeals do not contribute to their debate." My response to this specific sentence, which I also sent to Vijay--> I disagree that Iranian twitterers, inside Iran and in the diaspora, don't have an impact on the crisis. To suggest otherwise would be to denigrate the achievement of twitterers like PersianKiwi, who sent updates for two weeks, until being allegedly arrested by security forces. Yes, there's tremendous amount of chaff on Twitter, but there's also precious data. I stand by my original op-ed from June 17 "The Revolution Will Bypass Your Filters" http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/06/17/iran-filters/ This crisis has been different precisely because of the critical mass interlinking of social media. News, photos and video has leaked out in such large volume precisely because of the existence of Twitter, Twitpic, Youtube, Twazzup, Facebook, etc. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 19:44:23 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... Message-ID: <960397.93979.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> "Similarly, Indian constitution presents India as a "secular" nation, but some people don't like that status and would like to change it." THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS DISCUSSION! YES YOUR "ARGUMENT" IS NEITHER HERE NOR THERE! "And how people have interpreted it differently in the different times, sometimes exactly to make it egalitarian?" YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT AGAIN AND AGAIN! Please read all my emails one more time.WE CAN'T RELY ON THE GOODWILL OF THE MAJORITY TO MAKE A SYSTEM EGALITARIAN! THE SYSTEM OF JURISPRUDENCE SHOULD HAVE INBUILT SAFEGUARDS SO THAT MAJORITY CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT! --- On Thu, 7/2/09, M Javed wrote: > From: M Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the right... > To: "Rahul Asthana" > Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 7:26 PM > Rahul, I have read those links, I > hope you read them too (and I said > these are only examples - there can be more). Through these > I simply > wanted to show you that some people will never be happy > with a system > of governance because it doesn't suit them. And some people > will > always take advantage of it, or even twist it in their > interest. Its > not a specific article of Panchayati raj that's important. > We are made > to believe that Panchayati raj is the people's local > governance that > empowers them. But in reality it does not allow to them to > rise above > the feudalism and casteism. Similarly, Indian constitution > presents > India as a "secular" nation, but some people don't like > that status > and would like to change it. > > If my arguments are sounding here and there, lets close the > discussion here. > > I would however be curious to know (as you say that "sharia > has no > place in the egalitarian society"), have you read shariah > yourself? Do > you know what it is? And how people have interpreted it > differently in > the different times, sometimes exactly to make it > egalitarian? > > J > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > Javed, > > > > 1.What is the point of posting this article?"Seers > Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian > Constitution!"Are you trying to prove your own assertion > that "Indian constitution does not keep everyone happy" ? > Can you explain how that relates with this discussion? > > 2.The second series of articles that you have posted > are about Panchayat Raj.I am assuming you would have read > all these articles.I will repeat the question I asked > earlier.Can you explain which article of Panchayati Raj > gives most of the power to high caste goons? > > 3.I am not advocating to adopt Indian Constitution > BECAUSE IT IS A FRAMEWORK! So your contention that Sharia is > also a framework is neither here nor there.Please pay more > attention to my earlier mails to you.My contention is that > Sharia does not have inalienable principles that can > safeguard minorities and women against majority > interpretation.So it has no place in an egalitarian > society! > > > > Thanks > > Rahul > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, M Javed > wrote: > > > >> From: M Javed > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives muftis the > right... > >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > "sarai list" > >> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 4:57 PM > >> Dear Rahul, I will give a few > >> examples here: > >> > >> For "Indian constitution does not keep everyone > happy", > >> please see: > >> > >> Seers Demand Dropping of Word Secular from Indian > >> Constitution! > >> http://www.pluralindia.com/issues-in-secular-politics.php?id=205 > >> > >> For Panchayati system, see the following reports > that refer > >> to the > >> exploitation of low-caste people and women under > >> panchayat: > >> http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv4n2/panchay.htm > >> http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Law/2003/panchayati-raj.htm > >> > >> For your last point (constitution...is supposed to > provide > >> a basic > >> framework...), let me say that shariat is also > nothing but > >> a basic > >> framework. Literally, sharia means a way or path. > And you > >> can get > >> strayed from the path. > >> > >> J > >> > >> On 7/1/09, Rahul Asthana > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Ok so its time for truisms and platitudes > now. > >> > "Indian constitution does not keep everyone > happy." > >> > Can you elaborate? > >> > "The panchayati system in  rural India > still > >> gives most power to the > >> > high-caste goons." > >> > Can you elaborate? Can you quote the relevant > articles > >> of the panchayati > >> > system which "give most power to high-caste > goons"? > >> > > >> > Let me add that the function of constitution > is not to > >> "keep everyone > >> > happy",whatever that means.It is supposed to > provide a > >> basic framework and > >> > some non amendable laws.The basic framework > and non > >> amendable laws cannot be > >> > altered,even if there is  majority will to > do > >> so. > >> > > >> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who gives > muftis the > >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" , > >> "sarai list" > >> >> > >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:09 PM > >> >> Dear Rahul > >> >> No law or system of governance is ideal > for all. > >> Indian > >> >> constitution > >> >> does not keep everyone happy. For all > practical > >> purposes, > >> >> democracy > >> >> does not guarantee justice (and even > equality) to > >> all, > >> >> although it > >> >> maybe the most ideal system today. The > panchayati > >> system in > >> >> rural > >> >> India still gives most power to the > high-caste > >> goons. > >> >> Afghan mujahids (or criminal gangs) would > have > >> used some > >> >> other law to > >> >> suppress women and kill innocent people > if shariat > >> was not > >> >> there. Its > >> >> how you use the law in your favour, even > if it > >> looks the > >> >> most > >> >> innocuous or balanced. > >> >> > >> >> J > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Rahul > >> Asthana > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Javed, > >> >> > Yes this answers my query. Now we > can > >> discuss > >> >> further. > >> >> > 1.Do you think laws are made on a > best case > >> scenario? > >> >> > 2.Do you think we can rely on the > better > >> judgement of > >> >> the majority when we choose to be > governed by a > >> law? > >> >> > 3.Can you tell me if it is POSSIBLE > or not > >> for the > >> >> Shariat to be interpreted in a Taliban > kind of > >> way? > >> >> > It is precisely for the reason that > many > >> >> interpretations are possible (a Taliban > kind of > >> >> implementation is one of them) that non > >> Muslims,women etc > >> >> should reject Shariat.Hypothetically, > suppose your > >> support > >> >> for Shariat passively enables an entity > like > >> Taliban to come > >> >> to power.I am assuming you in a democracy > you > >> would vote for > >> >> a political party who stands for Shariat) > then > >> would you > >> >> accept some responsibilty for that or > call them > >> "non > >> >> Muslims" or "bad Muslims" and shrug your > >> shoulders?This is > >> >> exactly how the rise of Taliban has > played out in > >> Pakistan. > >> >> > This discussion may be academic > because as > >> you have > >> >> already said that owing to  allegiance > to > >> your religion > >> >> abiding by Shariat is your duty.No > secular > >> jurisprudence can > >> >> provide you an alternative to that.So I > thank you > >> for > >> >> discussing this with me anyway. > >> >> > See, the thing is,that liberal > interpreters > >> of Shariat > >> >> want the ideology behind their islamic > identity to > >> be just > >> >> another secular humanist philosophy so > badly that > >> they think > >> >> they can just shut their eyes, click > their heels > >> together, > >> >> and it will all happen just as they want > to.Other > >> liberals > >> >> like Shuddha should realize the danger > inherent in > >> this kind > >> >> of exercise. > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > Rahul > >> >> > > >> >> > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, M Javed > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Who > gives > >> muftis the > >> >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > >> >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > , > >> >> "sarai list" > >> >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, > 10:26 AM > >> >> >> Rahul, which shariat are you > >> >> >> referring to when you ask my > opinion. > >> >> >> What is the definition of > shariat which I > >> want to > >> >> be > >> >> >> governed with? I > >> >> >> have my own definition of > shariat, and I > >> would be > >> >> very > >> >> >> happy to be > >> >> >> governed under that. My shariat > is very > >> much from > >> >> Islam, > >> >> >> but it gives > >> >> >> queers the right to live > happily. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Hope that answers your query. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Javed > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:06 > PM, Rahul > >> >> Asthana > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> >> > I don't think you have > thought this > >> >> through,which is > >> >> >> why you are unable to make the > >> distinction between > >> >> "adopt > >> >> >> something from the shariat" and > "being > >> governed > >> >> by > >> >> >> shariat".I just wanted to know > whether > >> you are in > >> >> favor of > >> >> >> making "Shariat a basis for > governance" > >> or > >> >> not.This is the > >> >> >> key .Everything else is just > gravy. > >> >> >> > Thanks > >> >> >> > Rahul > >> >> >> > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, M > Javed > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> From: M Javed > >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: > [Reader-list] Who > >> gives > >> >> muftis the > >> >> >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> >> >> To: "Rahul Asthana" > > >> >> >> >> Cc: "Shuddhabrata > Sengupta" > >> , > >> >> >> "sarai list" > >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, > 2009, > >> 10:40 PM > >> >> >> >> Dear Rahul > >> >> >> >> Here is my clearer > position: I > >> have been > >> >> brought > >> >> >> up in an > >> >> >> >> orthodox > >> >> >> >> Muslim family where > shariat > >> was/is > >> >> considered the > >> >> >> ultimate > >> >> >> >> law/norm to > >> >> >> >> follow for a Muslim. > But in my > >> childhood > >> >> days it > >> >> >> wasn't > >> >> >> >> considered > >> >> >> >> such an evil thing (as > Taliban > >> has made > >> >> it to be). > >> >> >> Let me > >> >> >> >> tell you, > >> >> >> >> following shariat in > our daily > >> lives is > >> >> very > >> >> >> different from > >> >> >> >> making it > >> >> >> >> as a basis for > governance. > >> Shariat as a > >> >> basis of > >> >> >> governance > >> >> >> >> is not > >> >> >> >> something fixed any way > - it has > >> been > >> >> interpreted > >> >> >> >> differently in > >> >> >> >> different Islamic > countries. > >> Indonesia, > >> >> Malaysia > >> >> >> or Turkey > >> >> >> >> also follow > >> >> >> >> shariat but their > systems are > >> much more > >> >> liberal. > >> >> >> That is > >> >> >> >> why I insist: > >> >> >> >> please don't see > shariat only > >> through the > >> >> eyes of > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> Taliban/Afghanistan. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Whatever name you give > it, the > >> point is, > >> >> is your > >> >> >> system of > >> >> >> >> governance > >> >> >> >> favourable for you. At > the > >> moment I am > >> >> governed > >> >> >> by > >> >> >> >> democracy, whether > >> >> >> >> I like it or not. There > are many > >> things I > >> >> hate in > >> >> >> >> democracy, and would > >> >> >> >> love to change them one > day (if > >> I could), > >> >> even > >> >> >> adopt > >> >> >> >> something from > >> >> >> >> the shariat. Is there > something > >> wrong > >> >> with that? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Javed > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at > 6:55 PM, > >> Rahul > >> >> >> Asthana > >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Dear Javed, > >> >> >> >> > Could you make > your > >> position clearer > >> >> on this > >> >> >> issue? > >> >> >> >> You say- > >> >> >> >> > "My second minor > difference > >> is: when > >> >> you say > >> >> >> "We are > >> >> >> >> not governed by > >> >> >> >> > the Shariat, and I > hope we > >> never > >> >> will be". I > >> >> >> am not > >> >> >> >> sure if Shariat is > >> >> >> >> > all evil." > >> >> >> >> > So, do you wish or > do you > >> not, to be > >> >> governed > >> >> >> by > >> >> >> >> Shariat? > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > (Not wishing to be > governed > >> by > >> >> Shariat does > >> >> >> not mean > >> >> >> >> that it is evil.It also > does not > >> mean > >> >> that we > >> >> >> can't adopt > >> >> >> >> good things from it.) > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Thanks > >> >> >> >> > Rahul > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > --- On Tue, > 6/30/09, M > >> Javed > >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> From: M Javed > > >> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: > >> [Reader-list] Who > >> >> gives > >> >> >> muftis the > >> >> >> >> right to give fatwas? > >> >> >> >> >> To: > "Shuddhabrata > >> Sengupta" > >> >> , > >> >> >> >> "sarai list" > >> >> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, > June 30, > >> 2009, > >> >> 3:46 PM > >> >> >> >> >> Dear > Shuddhabrata > >> >> >> >> >> Actually I > have a > >> slight > >> >> digression from > >> >> >> your > >> >> >> >> answer. I > >> >> >> >> >> don't care > >> >> >> >> >> what fatwas > the muftis > >> give > >> >> within their > >> >> >> own > >> >> >> >> coterie (I'm > >> >> >> >> >> sure > >> >> >> >> >> homosexual > behaviour > >> exists in > >> >> the > >> >> >> Deoband madrasa > >> >> >> >> too), > >> >> >> >> >> but the > >> >> >> >> >> problem comes > when this > >> news is > >> >> flashed > >> >> >> on the > >> >> >> >> front-page: > >> >> >> >> >> it > >> >> >> >> >> basically > sends a clear > >> signal > >> >> that > >> >> >> "Muslims" in > >> >> >> >> general > >> >> >> >> >> are against > >> >> >> >> >> homo-sexuality > and this > >> is yet > >> >> another > >> >> >> example of > >> >> >> >> how > >> >> >> >> >> bigoted the > >> >> >> >> >> entire > community is, > >> and there > >> >> are > >> >> >> absolutely no > >> >> >> >> liberals > >> >> >> >> >> (or > >> >> >> >> >> > queer-friendly) people > >> among the > >> >> Muslims > >> >> >> and so > >> >> >> >> on, which > >> >> >> >> >> is not the > >> >> >> >> >> case. In a > way, any > >> >> controversial fatwa > >> >> >> from the > >> >> >> >> Deoband > >> >> >> >> >> (whichever > >> >> >> >> >> damn topic) is > taken by > >> the > >> >> media as a > >> >> >> hot saucy > >> >> >> >> news to be > >> >> >> >> >> flashed to > >> >> >> >> >> show the > backwardness > >> of > >> >> Muslims. But my > >> >> >> question > >> >> >> >> is > >> >> >> >> >> (especially > to > >> >> >> >> >> the mainstream > media), > >> do these > >> >> damn > >> >> >> fatwas > >> >> >> >> really > >> >> >> >> >> represent the > >> >> >> >> >> entire Muslim > >> community? Are > >> >> they so > >> >> >> important > >> >> >> >> that you > >> >> >> >> >> have to flash > >> >> >> >> >> them as > headlines. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> My second > minor > >> difference is: > >> >> when you > >> >> >> say "We > >> >> >> >> are not > >> >> >> >> >> governed by > >> >> >> >> >> the Shariat, > and I hope > >> we never > >> >> will > >> >> >> be". I am > >> >> >> >> not sure if > >> >> >> >> >> Shariat is > >> >> >> >> >> all evil. > Although I > >> don't > >> >> practice it > >> >> >> strictly, > >> >> >> >> but I know > >> >> >> >> >> it has > >> >> >> >> >> many good > things in it > >> which > >> >> make at > >> >> >> least the > >> >> >> >> good part of > >> >> >> >> >> Islam > >> >> >> >> >> alive. Don't > see it > >> only through > >> >> the eyes > >> >> >> of the > >> >> >> >> Taliban. > >> >> >> >> >> Whether we > >> >> >> >> >> get governed > by the > >> shariat or > >> >> not, I > >> >> >> hope we > >> >> >> >> could at > >> >> >> >> >> least adopt > the > >> >> >> >> >> good things > about it. > >> And > >> >> Shariat is not > >> >> >> a fixed > >> >> >> >> set of > >> >> >> >> >> rules; it can > >> >> >> >> >> be and should > be open > >> for > >> >> interpretation, > >> >> >> which > >> >> >> >> these > >> >> >> >> >> muftis have > >> >> >> >> >> stopped > doing. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Thanks any > way. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Javed > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun > 29, 2009 at > >> 10:53 > >> >> PM, > >> >> >> Shuddhabrata > >> >> >> >> >> Sengupta > >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > Dear > Javed, > >> >> >> >> >> > Thank you > for > >> forwarding > >> >> this. I > >> >> >> don't know > >> >> >> >> who gives > >> >> >> >> >> these muftis > and > >> >> >> >> >> > tuftis > the right > >> to give > >> >> fatwas, I > >> >> >> think they > >> >> >> >> give it > >> >> >> >> >> to themselves. > And > >> >> >> >> >> > since > they > >> routinely issue > >> >> fatwas on > >> >> >> all > >> >> >> >> manner of > >> >> >> >> >> ridiculous > matters, we > >> >> >> >> >> > might as > well > >> treat this > >> >> one too > >> >> >> with the > >> >> >> >> lack of > >> >> >> >> >> seriousness > that it > >> >> >> >> >> > > deserves. > >> >> >> >> >> > We are > not > >> governed by the > >> >> Shariat, > >> >> >> and I > >> >> >> >> hope we > >> >> >> >> >> never will be. > Since > >> we > >> >> >> >> >> > are not > governed > >> by the > >> >> Shariat, it > >> >> >> hardly > >> >> >> >> matters > >> >> >> >> >> whether or not > Maulana > >> >> >> >> >> > Abdul > Khalik > >> Madrasi > >> >> thinks > >> >> >> homosexuality is > >> >> >> >> an > >> >> >> >> >> offence under > Shariat > >> Law. > >> >> >> >> >> > Not even > the > >> relevant (and > >> >> >> anachronistic, > >> >> >> >> misogynist > >> >> >> >> >> and > patrarchal) > >> >> >> >> >> > sections > of > >> Personal Law in > >> >> matters > >> >> >> of > >> >> >> >> marriage and > >> >> >> >> >> inheritance > that > >> govern > >> >> >> >> >> > the lives > of > >> Indian Muslims > >> >> have > >> >> >> anything to > >> >> >> >> say about > >> >> >> >> >> sexual > relations in > >> >> >> >> >> > private > between > >> consenting > >> >> adults. > >> >> >> So, not > >> >> >> >> even from > >> >> >> >> >> the > completely > >> >> >> >> >> > > unacceptabe (to > >> me) > >> >> standpoint of > >> >> >> defending a > >> >> >> >> separate > >> >> >> >> >> civil code > for > >> >> >> >> >> > Muslims > is it > >> relevant to > >> >> discuss > >> >> >> the fate of > >> >> >> >> Section > >> >> >> >> >> 377. Maulana > Madrasi > >> >> >> >> >> > is > barking up the > >> wrong > >> >> legal tree. > >> >> >> >> >> > Finally, > a small > >> >> historical > >> >> >> digression. > >> >> >> >> Section 377 > >> >> >> >> >> was introduced > by the > >> >> >> >> >> > British > Colonial > >> >> Administration in > >> >> >> India. > >> >> >> >> Which, as > >> >> >> >> >> far as i > recall, was > >> not > >> >> >> >> >> > exactly a > model > >> Islamic > >> >> state. In > >> >> >> fact, the > >> >> >> >> British > >> >> >> >> >> Colonial > authorities > >> >> >> >> >> > presided > over the > >> decline > >> >> and > >> >> >> destruction of > >> >> >> >> >> 'nominally' > Muslim > >> political > >> >> >> >> >> > power in > India. > >> if, for the > >> >> roughly > >> >> >> seven > >> >> >> >> hundred > >> >> >> >> >> years > preceding the > >> advent > >> >> >> >> >> > of > British rule in > >> India, > >> >> when the > >> >> >> territory > >> >> >> >> happened > >> >> >> >> >> to be ruled > largely by > >> >> >> >> >> > Muslim > rulers, > >> (some of > >> >> whom claimed > >> >> >> to be > >> >> >> >> guided by > >> >> >> >> >> the Shariat) > it was > >> not > >> >> >> >> >> > found > necessary to > >> invoke > >> >> a > >> >> >> draconian law > >> >> >> >> like section > >> >> >> >> >> 377, are we to > then > >> >> >> >> >> > > understand that > >> the > >> >> British > >> >> >> Colonial > >> >> >> >> authority was > >> >> >> >> >> more 'Islamic' > than > >> the > >> >> >> >> >> > Mughal > rulers, > >> than the > >> >> rulers of > >> >> >> the Delhi > >> >> >> >> sultanate, > >> >> >> >> >> and many other > kings > >> >> >> >> >> > and > princes of a > >> Muslim > >> >> persuasion. > >> >> >> >> >> > And > finally, how > >> exactly > >> >> would we > >> >> >> remember a > >> >> >> >> figure > >> >> >> >> >> like the great > Ghazi > >> of > >> >> >> >> >> > Islam - > Mahmud of > >> Ghazna > >> >> and his > >> >> >> love for > >> >> >> >> Ayaz, or > >> >> >> >> >> Razia Sultana > and her > >> >> >> >> >> > love for > women, or > >> the > >> >> distinctly > >> >> >> queer > >> >> >> >> ecstasies of > >> >> >> >> >> Amir Khusrau > and > >> >> >> >> >> > Sarmad. > Each one > >> of these > >> >> people > >> >> >> saw > >> >> >> >> themselves as > >> >> >> >> >> devout Muslim. > And > >> there > >> >> >> >> >> > was > nothing > >> unusual in > >> >> their being > >> >> >> queer > >> >> >> >> Muslims. > >> >> >> >> >> Islamicate > societies > >> all > >> >> >> >> >> > over the > world > >> have been > >> >> >> historically far > >> >> >> >> more > >> >> >> >> >> tolerant of > various > >> different > >> >> >> >> >> > kinds of > same-sex > >> >> relationships both > >> >> >> male and > >> >> >> >> female, > >> >> >> >> >> and > transgender > >> >> >> >> >> > > identities, than > >> societies > >> >> largely > >> >> >> anchored > >> >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> >> Christian > values have > >> been. > >> >> >> >> >> > Islam is > a sex > >> positive > >> >> religion. > >> >> >> It > >> >> >> >> celebrates the > >> >> >> >> >> dignity, > beauty and > >> >> >> >> >> > diversity > of the > >> human body > >> >> and all > >> >> >> its > >> >> >> >> desires. There > >> >> >> >> >> is (and always > has > >> >> >> >> >> > been) a > strong > >> case for a > >> >> queer > >> >> >> theology of > >> >> >> >> liberation > >> >> >> >> >> that is rooted > within > >> >> >> >> >> > the > Islamicate > >> cultural > >> >> universe, > >> >> >> and it has > >> >> >> >> had a > >> >> >> >> >> long history, > and it > >> will > >> >> >> >> >> > have a > long > >> future. > >> >> >> >> >> > Maulana > Madrasi is > >> probably > >> >> just as > >> >> >> ignorant > >> >> >> >> of the > >> >> >> >> >> traditions he > claims > >> are > >> >> >> >> >> > his own > as Praveen > >> Togadia, > >> >> the > >> >> >> firebrand > >> >> >> >> leader of > >> >> >> >> >> the Vishwa > Hindu > >> >> >> >> >> > Parishad, > is. They > >> would > >> >> probably > >> >> >> make an > >> >> >> >> excellent > >> >> >> >> >> couple, locked > happily > >> >> >> >> >> > together > within > >> their > >> >> private closet > >> >> >> of > >> >> >> >> paranoia. > >> >> >> >> >> > > Meanwhile, let us > >> hope that > >> >> Veerappa > >> >> >> Moily's > >> >> >> >> supposed > >> >> >> >> >> u-turn is only > a > >> >> >> >> >> > > digression, and > >> that the > >> >> provisions > >> >> >> in > >> >> >> >> Section 377 > >> >> >> >> >> that > criminalize the > >> >> >> >> >> > behaviour > of > >> consenting > >> >> adults in > >> >> >> private > >> >> >> >> (which > >> >> >> >> >> should not be > the > >> business > >> >> >> >> >> > of the > >> state)  are > >> >> consigned > >> >> >> finally to > >> >> >> >> where they > >> >> >> >> >> belong - the > dustbin > >> of > >> >> >> >> >> > history. > >> >> >> >> >> > And > >> congratulations to all > >> >> those who > >> >> >> paraded > >> >> >> >> on the > >> >> >> >> >> streets of > Delhi, > >> >> >> >> >> > > Bangalore, Madras > >> and > >> >> Calcutta. The > >> >> >> future > >> >> >> >> belongs to > >> >> >> >> >> you (and us > all) not > >> >> >> >> >> > to the > likes of > >> Maulana > >> >> Madrasi. > >> >> >> >> >> > regards > >> >> >> >> >> > Shuddha > >> >> >> >> >> > On > 29-Jun-09, at > >> 3:54 PM, M > >> >> Javed > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > Gay sex > against > >> tenets of > >> >> Islam: > >> >> >> Deoband > >> >> >> >> >> > 29 Jun > 2009, 1353 > >> hrs IST, > >> >> PTI > >> >> >> >> >> > > MUZAFFARNAGAR, UP: > >> A > >> >> leading Islamic > >> >> >> seminary > >> >> >> >> on > >> >> >> >> >> Monday > opposed > >> >> >> >> >> > Centre's > move to > >> repeal a > >> >> >> controversial > >> >> >> >> section of the > >> >> >> >> >> penal law > which > >> >> >> >> >> > > criminalises > >> homosexuality > >> >> saying > >> >> >> unnatural > >> >> >> >> sex is > >> >> >> >> >> against the > tenets of > >> >> >> >> >> > Islam. > >> >> >> >> >> > > "Homosexuality is > >> an > >> >> offence under > >> >> >> Shariat > >> >> >> >> Law and > >> >> >> >> >> haram > (prohibited) > >> >> >> >> >> > in > Islam," deputy > >> vice > >> >> chancellor of > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> Darul Uloom > >> >> >> >> >> Deoband > Maulana > >> >> >> >> >> > Abdul > Khalik > >> Madrasi said. > >> >> >> >> >> > Madrasi > also asked > >> the > >> >> government > >> >> >> not to > >> >> >> >> repeal > >> >> >> >> >> section 377 of > IPC > >> >> >> >> >> > which > >> criminalises > >> >> homosexuality. > >> >> >> >> >> > His > objection came > >> a day > >> >> after law > >> >> >> minister > >> >> >> >> Veerappa > >> >> >> >> >> Moily said a > >> >> >> >> >> > decision > on > >> repealing the > >> >> section > >> >> >> would be > >> >> >> >> taken only > >> >> >> >> >> after > >> >> >> >> >> > > considering > >> concerns of all > >> >> sections > >> >> >> of the > >> >> >> >> society, > >> >> >> >> >> including > >> >> >> >> >> > religious > groups > >> like the > >> >> church. > >> >> >> >> >> > Terming > gay > >> activities as > >> >> crime, > >> >> >> Maulana > >> >> >> >> Salim Kasmi, > >> >> >> >> >> > vice-president > >> >> >> >> >> > of the > All-India > >> Muslim > >> >> Personal Law > >> >> >> Board > >> >> >> >> (AIMPLB), > >> >> >> >> >> said > >> >> >> >> >> > > homosexuality is > >> punishable > >> >> under > >> >> >> Islamic law > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> >> section 377 of > IPC > >> >> >> >> >> > should > not be > >> tampered. > >> >> >> >> >> > Maulana > Mohd > >> Sufiyan Kasmi, > >> >> an > >> >> >> AIMPLB member, > >> >> >> >> and > >> >> >> >> >> Mufti > Zulfikar, > >> >> >> >> >> > president > of Uttar > >> Pradesh > >> >> Imam > >> >> >> Organisation > >> >> >> >> have also > >> >> >> >> >> expressed > >> >> >> >> >> > similar > views on > >> the > >> >> issue. > >> >> >> >> >> > Kasmi > said it > >> would be > >> >> harmful for > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> society to > >> >> >> >> >> legalise gay > sex. > >> >> >> >> >> > Buoyed by > the news > >> that the > >> >> Centre > >> >> >> is > >> >> >> >> considering > >> >> >> >> >> repealing the > >> >> >> >> >> > > controversial > >> section of > >> >> the IPC, > >> >> >> members of > >> >> >> >> the gay > >> >> >> >> >> community on > >> >> >> >> >> > Sunday > held > >> parades in > >> >> several > >> >> >> cities. > >> >> >> >> >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Gay-sex-against-tenets-of-Islam-Deoband/articleshow/4715517.cms > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> >> > > reader-list: an > >> open > >> >> discussion list > >> >> >> on media > >> >> >> >> and the > >> >> >> >> >> city. > >> >> >> >> >> > Critiques > & > >> >> Collaborations > >> >> >> >> >> > To > subscribe: send > >> an email > >> >> to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> >> with > subscribe > >> >> >> >> >> > in the > subject > >> header. > >> >> >> >> >> > To > unsubscribe: > >> >> >> >> >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> >> > List > archive: > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > Shuddhabrata > >> Sengupta > >> >> >> >> >> > The > Sarai > >> Programme at > >> >> CSDS > >> >> >> >> >> > Raqs > Media > >> Collective > >> >> >> >> >> > shuddha at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> >> > > www.sarai.net > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> >> reader-list: > an open > >> discussion > >> >> list on > >> >> >> media and > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> city. > >> >> >> >> >> Critiques > & > >> Collaborations > >> >> >> >> >> To subscribe: > send an > >> email to > >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> >> >> >> >> with subscribe > in the > >> subject > >> >> header. > >> >> >> >> >> To > unsubscribe: > >> >> >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> >> >> List archive: > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > From daisyhasan at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 2 20:02:13 2009 From: daisyhasan at yahoo.co.uk (Daisy Hasan) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:32:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Query about Documentary Films on Conflict from South Asia Message-ID: <621461.49916.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear All, I am collating a list of contemporary documentaries on the theme of conflict (broadly defined to include domestic, personal, social, religious, political and cultural conflict). I am interested in films from South Asia. While I have a good sense of the Indian scene any suggestions for films from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal will be really appreciated. Suggestions for Indian films are also very welcome. These films will hopefully be shown in a film festival in the UK to compliment an exhibition of artwork by South Asian women artists. Any suggestions on where else I can post this query will also be very welcome. Many thanks in advance, Daisy Hasan Postdoctoral RA School of English, University of Leeds   From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 21:13:08 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:13:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Film: Dispatches: Terror in Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From Abhishek http://qik.li/K1xh The untold story of 2008's terrorist attack, in the words of its victims and the gunmen. The programme contains graphic images and descriptions of the atrocity which may upset some viewers. Produced and directed by award-winning filmmaker Dan Reed, Terror in Mumbai tells the story of what happened when 10 gunmen held one of the world's busiest cities hostage; killing and wounding hundreds of people while holding India's crack security forces at bay. Featuring footage of the attacks and interviews with senior police officers and hostages, including the testimony from Kasab - the sole surviving gunman, Dispatches reveals what happened, hour by hour, from the perspective of the security forces, the terrorists, their masterminds and the victims. From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 22:42:59 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:42:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Vijay Prashad's thoughts on facebook/twitter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f9180970907021012v14ab7c28k5eae9feb65c75a66@mail.gmail.com> This seems to be the most plausible viewpoint on the relevance of social networking ; looking forward to see unlimited expansion of this space to add weight to the critical mass, and to shape this as a tremendous vehicle carrying the ideas of peace and justice; as a formidable challenge to the unjust order, created by the convergence of informed opinions everywhere. Regards, On 7/2/09, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > Vijay Prashad wrote in this op-ed "Made for Revolution: Iran and Us" > > http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad07012009.html > > I agree with most of the op-ed, except this sentence--> > "Our Facebook updates and Twitter squeals do not contribute to their > debate." > > My response to this specific sentence, which I also sent to Vijay--> > > I disagree that Iranian twitterers, inside Iran and in the diaspora, > don't have an impact on the crisis. To suggest otherwise would be to > denigrate the achievement of twitterers like PersianKiwi, who sent > updates for two weeks, until being allegedly arrested by security > forces. > > Yes, there's tremendous amount of chaff on Twitter, but there's also > precious data. > > I stand by my original op-ed from June 17 > > "The Revolution Will Bypass Your Filters" > http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/06/17/iran-filters/ > > This crisis has been different precisely because of the critical mass > interlinking of social media. News, photos and video has leaked out in > such large volume precisely because of the existence of Twitter, > Twitpic, Youtube, Twazzup, Facebook, etc. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 23:00:16 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:30:16 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Vijay Prashad's thoughts on facebook/twitter In-Reply-To: <1f9180970907021012v14ab7c28k5eae9feb65c75a66@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970907021012v14ab7c28k5eae9feb65c75a66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A follow-up exchange w/ Vijay on FOIL--> 1. From Vijay: I quite agree that *Iranian twitterers* continue to impact the conjuncture in Iran. My sentence was about *us* which is to say those of us who are located in the US Left. Now there are some who are intimately related to the struggle in Iran, as exiles for instance, but their role is different. The entire essay is not about those in Iran, per se, but about the attitude of internationalist solidarity. 2. From Naeem: I did perceive that your "us" was meant possibly as "US Left", but within that is also possibly at least a portion of Iranian diaspora. Within my networks, they are the ones who first started flooding my Facebook wall with Iran alerts (even before the election). So I privilege their cyber-activism, both in terms of it's level of understanding (although you can argue it's over-representative of westernized Iranians) and impact. I know that you are separating those exiles out in your note below, but I was placing them within the networked messaging phenomenon. Also, although Counterpunch is styled as US Left platform to some degree, articles from it are often cited/forwarded by some within the Bangla Left (itself quite fragmented). So when I see a piece on there, I see it addressed to a larger-than-US audience. Then I would also say the impact of a Pakistani blogger on this issue would have a different impact, because it could not be as easily dismissed as "western propaganda". There's some amount of posturing within the internationalist solidarity with Iran, but I see that more on the center/center right of political forces, and within mainstream media. My quibble wasn't with the essay, but the portion related to hyper-networked social media. 3. From Vijay: Firstly, I am conscious that CP is read elsewhere, but I did try to flag right through the essay that this was intended for a certain audience (in particular at the end, on Honduras, where this is made very clear, I think). Now the mailing address is the US Left, but it can certainly be intercepted and read elsewhere, but with the conscious presence that the "us" is intended as a certain audience. Second, the Iranian diaspora plays an important role in this, no doubt, particularly the exiles. But they are conduits of information as much as anything. This seems a rather home-run affair, and not driven from Berlin or Toronto, or even Los Angeles. And the Iranian-American component of the left has not produced a view that I have yet seen; there is celebration or caution, but nothing that helps us understand what the US Left should do in terms of Iran. The most that I have seen is the caution against intervention. Third, CP posted a very nice piece on social networking today, which I commend. It will help give us the context we need, as to the utility of these methods and their drawbacks. I spoke to a friend in Tehran who is close to the bus drivers union, and he tells me what I anticipated, which is that the unions are quite old-fashioned in how they move to the streets. So there is that. There is a class component to this form of mobilization, as we see in the US as well. One of the things to come to terms with is that as globalization renders large numbers of people into the informal sector, it is often the middle class and the merchant classes (often organized into federations) that are capable of organizing themselves, whereas the unions have not taken up the challenge of organizing the informal workers. For the US, there is an excellent discussion in the new Left Turn, a summary of a round table from the Left Forum in New York. Best, Vijay. On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Venugopalan K M wrote: > This seems to be the most plausible viewpoint on the relevance of > social networking ; > looking forward to see unlimited expansion of this space to add weight > to the critical mass, and to shape this as a tremendous vehicle > carrying the ideas of peace and justice; as a formidable challenge to > the unjust order, created by the convergence of informed  opinions > everywhere. > Regards, > > > On 7/2/09, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: >> Vijay Prashad wrote in this op-ed "Made for Revolution: Iran and Us" >> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad07012009.html >> >> I agree with most of the op-ed, except this sentence--> >> "Our Facebook updates and Twitter squeals do not contribute to their >> debate." >> >> My response to this specific sentence, which I also sent to Vijay--> >> >> I disagree that Iranian twitterers, inside Iran and in the diaspora, >> don't have an impact on the crisis. To suggest otherwise would be to >> denigrate the achievement of twitterers like PersianKiwi, who sent >> updates for two weeks, until being allegedly arrested by security >> forces. >> >> Yes, there's tremendous amount of chaff on Twitter, but there's also >> precious data. >> >> I stand by my original op-ed from June 17 >> >> "The Revolution Will Bypass Your Filters" >> http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/06/17/iran-filters/ >> >> This crisis has been different precisely because of the critical mass >> interlinking of social media. News, photos and video has leaked out in >> such large volume precisely because of the existence of Twitter, >> Twitpic, Youtube, Twazzup, Facebook, etc. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > http://venukm.blogspot.com > > http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur > > http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 23:33:42 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? Message-ID: <316860.33511.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Kaul, The decisions of the High Courts have nowadays become infrutuous as every Tom, Dick and Harry appeals to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court invariably admits the appeal.(With due regards to the Hon'ble HC & SC). Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? > To: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:04 AM > Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in > his grave if this comes true. > > For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day > in media suggests > that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong > verdict against > the Section 377 IPC. > > Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the > case might be > immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. > > Hope this is helpful. > > thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > *More from IANS* > > The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian > court on a 19th > century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal > offence. > > The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz > Foundation, pleaded > that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour > should be scrapped > for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. > > The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code > (IPC) is > violative of their fundamental right. > > Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who > “voluntarily has carnal > intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman > or animal” shall > be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and > be liable to pay > a fine. > > During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry > and the home > ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in > their opinion, with > the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the > petitioners and the home > ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity > saying such > behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian > society. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 00:11:09 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 00:11:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life is cheap in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907020124n186a40c6j7fb58a9ca885d863@mail.gmail.com> References: <649653.69486.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907010626r2aae2b9bj7f359e00390b2b00@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907010923o782d9e3ct419d01faf90c2afe@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907020120m639205c5m14533ae6fd6c3b5a@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907020124n186a40c6j7fb58a9ca885d863@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907021141x113ba6f4of662225ef54d7e9b@mail.gmail.com> I believe this question was meant to be taken more seriously than your ideas about national highways Pawan. its ok i will seek your opinion when there is something exclusively been discussed about national highways :) On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Dear Anupam , > > > You can not have a speed breaker on a Highway , no matter how many > people die because of accidents. > > Regards > > A Highway Authority lobbyist > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:50 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > "To relate every such Justice, campaign with stone throwing and abusing > the > > brave Jawans, is equally insane. This will get them no JUSTICE. Violence > > will only give them more violence in return." > > Dear all, > > I think the above statement by Aditya shows how many of us (i am trying > to > > address the larger whole instead of categorically pointing out the Panun > > Kashmir lobby which has been actively putting these issues on the > forefront) > > look at kashmir or for that matter any conflict zone in the nation, be it > > Lalgarh, Warangal, Churachandpur, Diphu, Deesa and recently Shopian. > Jawans > > of Indian forces operating in Kashmir are brave, on the right side of the > > conflict, their actions: unquestionable. This argument has been also > applied > > to north east, which obviously has a different set of issues in terms of > > conflicts, in terms of political aspirations. Although in case of Indian > or > > Indian forces and people who decide on their deployment, use force as the > > last means quell conflicts. However, all these efforts to quell such > > resistance (Kargil War is not included here merely because a direct role > of > > Pakistani forces has been reportedly established) have been disastrous. > Mobs > > in Gujarat or mobs in Shopian or even the organised Maoist resistance > > Lalgarh are going to be the same -- ruthless, cunning and even merciless. > To > > digress a little, we are yet to know what happened in Karbi Anglong in > 2005 > > or 2006 when karbis and dimasas fought each and within days there was > more > > blood on the fields than waters -- unfortunately very was heard within > > Indian media or in the corridors of power centres. All we know about > Karbi > > Anglong is that indian security forces have captured the banned Black > Widow > > leader, Jewel Garlossa from Bangalore and the first train reached Haflong > > after two months of rail blockade. ( I am sure Garlossa knew that by > calling > > his outfit Black Widow if not for anything else such as Dimasa Liberation > > Front will give him that kind publicity which he always wanted) The > imagined > > bottomline that once the wheel has been turned, no matter how peaceful > the > > foundations of a resistance is, it bound to become violent persists. > > However, whenever demands were made from different corners of this larger > > Indian whole, there were people within these quarters divided about the > use > > of violent means. > > Cut back to Indian Paramilitary Jawan posted a checkpoint near Rangiya > > Cantonment of Assam Rifles, barely 30 kilometers from Guwahati. Besides > > being brave and other such things, he also has a family, probably a > little > > bit of his kheti-baadi in some village near Uttar Pradesh or Punjab or > > Haryana. His folks sent him to paramilitary because it is a matter of > honour > > to serve your country, protect the nation. In their imagination, this > brave > > jawan of a son, the son of the soil, of the tiller of the earth is > fighting > > for his land, protecting his people. Certainly, it is a matter of pride. > And > > now he stands guard to keep a look out for enemies -- who are terrorists, > > extremists, militants, for some revolutionaries, guerillas, organised > > criminals, freedom fighters, you name them. They have already > infiltrated, > > very much within the system, in fact these enemies are part of the system > of > > governance. they are angry, discontent lot, loosers if you want to call > > them, unemployed (looking for work but not just a job), an outcaste -- no > > matter how much you want to convince them, they will have their way. they > > will keep killing. even the ones who have surrendered, save for a few, > rest > > all of them just dont want to exist but want to become the centres of > power. > > This jawan is not politically aspirational, he is brave enough to face a > > bullet and die or kill some of them. His bravery lasts for a few seconds, > > remembered for many years. By bravery, I only meant the Jawan's bravery. > Not > > those four youths, who are armed with two carbines stolen from a local > > police station as the local cops quickly agreed to their demands. Now, > they > > are advancing towards their same outpost where our brave Jawan guards. in > a > > succession of few seconds, the pillion riders from hurl two or three > > objects, towards them as both the riders clench the fists to apply > brakes. > > the moment these objects touch the ground close to the checkpost is the > same > > moment when other Jawan, the brave one could not even shout, so that at > > least one of them could be not saved. such are these deaths that even > brave > > men would fear for they may not have a split second to be what they are > > supposed to be. this was Assam in 1990s. They were not meant to die like > > this. These four youths, instead were considered brave within their > > community or their ranks. Please note that i am not dwelling on the > premise > > a terrorist could a freedom fighter as well. > > So how does one sort these disparate yet significant crises of our times. > It > > lies in answering the questiong as to Why do we have to link all forms of > > resistance (armed or unarmed) to a larger and more sinister, terrorism? > Is > > it because while quelling these forms of resistance we need to first > > categorise them in certain ways so for the administrative hubris it > becomes > > easier ? The negotiations that have between the resistance leaders and > the > > government -- are they published? Is it only about freeing other men > from > > captivity? Do we like living under the shadow of the gun? > > What makes you say, Aditya, that "Violence will only give them more > violence > > in return". Are you saying it from the point of view of a jawan who, even > if > > we decorate him with medals and honours dies like an innocent lamb after > > these unruly mobs, the cunning of a guerilla unit attack him out of the > > blue? Is this brave Jawan happy with his recent posting in poverty > stricken > > belt with the locals up in arms against not this Jawan but who he > > represents? And the remedial measure is what -- violence. for the mere > > reason that the grounds for negotiation, the atmosphere for bilateral > talks > > or for working out a strategy to rehabilitate these people is not > conducive > > enough and therefore violence? > > Lastly, how many deaths on particular junction of a road does it take for > > the administration to set up a speed breaker, traffic signal or flyover? > > precisely how many? > > i hope my questions would be answered some day. > > -thanks anupam > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 09:14:51 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:14:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Most cases under Sec 377 are for child abuse Message-ID: <6353c690907022044x4c3ebab1m4a51c8bf7776f832@mail.gmail.com> Most cases under Sec 377 are for child abuse *Vijaita Singh, Hindustan Times New Delhi, July 03, 2009* More than 300 cases have been registered under Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code over the past five years in Delhi alone. In 90 per cent cases, the people who were booked were adults, held on charges of abusing children, mostly boys and in few cases, girls. None of the cases registered were for incidents where there was mutual consent. Till June 30 this year, 32 cases had been registered under Section 377 IPC in Delhi. In May, police had arrested a 21-year-old cleric on charges of allegedly sodomising a 10-year-old boy in the Hazrat Nizamuddin area of south Delhi. Police and child right activists say this is the only section that is slapped against people who abuse children. According to the Crime Records Bureau information and studies on criminal jurisprudence and child abuse in India, Section 377 is the only legal provision to protect the millions of abused children and to supplement the shortcomings in the rape laws, which apply only when there is a vaginal penetration. “We have never arrested people where there was a mutual consent. Majority of the reported cases are those of child abuse and crime against weaker sex. In absence of this section we wouldn’t be able to book such offenders,” said a senior police officer on condition of anonymity. On December 27 last, police had arrested a Home Guard for allegedly sodomising a 16-year-old boy near Kashmere Gate in north Delhi. Police said the accused had lured the teenager to a park where he reportedly sexually assaulted him. Amod Kanth, chairman, Delhi Commission for Protection of Child Rights (DCPCR), said, “Section 377 of the IPC happens to be the only protection of law for children and minors and adults who are sodomised against their will because such sexual assaults fall within the definition of ‘unnatural offences’.” “Adult transgenders and homosexuals who indulge in consensual sex are usually not punished under the section,” he said. From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Fri Jul 3 09:20:47 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:20:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907020522n5eca8f91pbc5ada5e07fc4544@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907020522n5eca8f91pbc5ada5e07fc4544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <160361.37043.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear Pawan, Yup some bengali scholar showed some letters to show that it was an appeasement in pro quo to knighthood. on some officer's request. The letters were shown but alas are neither available, nor anybody bothered to match the handwritings, tagore used a typical cursive. However, since the scholar was a bramhin,  and most of them who suported this view, years after tagores death were also bramhins, some people suggested it was another attack to outcaste the Bramho's a british- aided organisation. My take is thus, so many years after tagores death, we research on him . Good. But we do not provide funds for educating and enhancing many more contemporary poets, exept his variety, his writings are greatly inspired from west. There were many morderns who couldnt get recognision in lifetime true. but this master piece which would be bad to suggest tagore thought India lacked oneness or one leader would imply the A. Identity politics Gandhi and tagore giving each other names, B . The desire of Rule, ONe big India, Siasat, the impermissibility of independance, later on. Jinnah had to be given his fair stake so that Nehru could be PM, under identity system. C. My knowledge of History is really weak, but in 1940's when the first charkha bearing congress flag was flown, tagore was not in list. Most probably the partition scenario and disparity in though which prompted to select this song, reminds us of father of nation, Nehru and others. Their right to fame, I guess. Remember RGV's RANN.   We should seriously consider skipping the Sind word, in India I believe. And With Indian Navy bearing British symboll for long, well this tradition is also imbibed from them, and Contemporarily it seems there has always been a change of regimes, Aparthied was merely a culture surrounding such regimes, Some people favoured Indian business class, for stake to resources and power, and changing the anthem on such grounds would give fuel to the pseudo nationalist bug, which inspires racism, abuse and harrasment. After all Mughal, British India were also India, and we were the people, lol. We still follow the british customs, the british system of education, imperial brands and what not, how can we seperate that piece from History, if Akbar can be On equal status with the Great lord, why not elisabeth? And why do we still hover around the independance-colonial hangover? My accounts may be based on a few accounts, and with a bit of apparently faded memory. So members,Please contri.... Regards, Subhrodip   ________________________________ From: Pawan Durani To: reader-list Sent: Thursday, 2 July, 2009 5:52:27 PM Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? Dear Readers , Many years back I had read that "Jana Gana Mana" or national anthem was written in praise of King & Queen Of England. There were quite a few justification about it written like the name of states were only those which were under English control etc etc. If someone has good knowledge about this 'controversy' , I would love to know . How true is it ? Regards Pawan Maybe dear friend Shuddha may write a note on this. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From sen.jhuma at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 09:38:02 2009 From: sen.jhuma at gmail.com (Jhuma Sen) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:38:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? In-Reply-To: <160361.37043.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70907020522n5eca8f91pbc5ada5e07fc4544@mail.gmail.com> <160361.37043.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85a3156a0907022108l5625f89di1f61fad5ffa0b49a@mail.gmail.com> I had read this article some time back when the controversy started gathering itself around the national anthem. A part of it is produced below. "The mythology surrounds the 1911 visit to India by King George V. To commemorate the occasion, the Indian National Congress (INC) approached Tagore for a poem of welcome. As Yeats (his Irish admirer of many years) recalled later, Tagore was deeply troubled by the assignment. Early one morning, he composed a very beautiful poem and handed it over to his colleagues. He suggested that it was a poem addressed to God, and that they should give it to the Congress people. At the Calcutta Congress session which began on December 16, 1911, the second day was apparently devoted entirely to welcoming King George V. *Jana Gana Mana* was sung on this occasion. Thereafter, the newspaper reports maintained that it was sung as a salute to the King Emperor (George V). Since Tagore did not immediately refute the allegation, the perception spread that the song was a eulogy to the monarchy. ...................................................................... In Tagore's collected works, it is mentioned that the INC requested that Tagore write a felicitation to the King Emperor as an appeasement gesture to the British monarchy in response to the annulment of the Bengal Partition Act. Not only was Tagore troubled by the request, *he was downright offended by it*. It is said that *Jana Gana Mana* was written more out of protest and rebellion than adoration towards the monarchy. An objective reading of the song should make it eminently clear as to whom the poet decided to offer his worship. In a letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in *Jana Gana Mana* of that *Bhagya Vidhata* of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense." (http://homepages.udayton.edu/~chattemr/janaganamana.html) Regards Jhuma On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > Dear Pawan, > Yup some bengali scholar showed some letters to show that it was an > appeasement in pro quo to knighthood. on some officer's request. The letters > were shown but alas are neither available, nor anybody bothered to match the > handwritings, tagore used a typical cursive. However, since the scholar was > a bramhin, and most of them who suported this view, years after tagores > death were also bramhins, some people suggested it was another attack to > outcaste the Bramho's a british- aided organisation. My take is thus, so > many years after tagores death, we research on him . Good. But we do not > provide funds for educating and enhancing many more contemporary poets, > exept his variety, his writings are greatly inspired from west. There were > many morderns who couldnt get recognision in lifetime true. but this master > piece which would be bad to suggest tagore thought India lacked oneness or > one leader would imply the > A. Identity politics Gandhi and tagore giving each other names, > B . The desire of Rule, ONe big India, Siasat, the impermissibility of > independance, later on. Jinnah had to be given his fair stake so that Nehru > could be PM, under identity system. > C. My knowledge of History is really weak, but in 1940's when the first > charkha bearing congress flag was flown, tagore was not in list. Most > probably the partition scenario and disparity in though which prompted to > select this song, reminds us of father of nation, Nehru and others. Their > right to fame, I guess. > Remember RGV's RANN. We should seriously consider skipping the Sind word, > in India I believe. And With Indian Navy bearing British symboll for long, > well this tradition is also imbibed from them, and Contemporarily it seems > there has always been a change of regimes, Aparthied was merely a culture > surrounding such regimes, Some people favoured Indian business class, for > stake to resources and power, and changing the anthem on such grounds would > give fuel to the pseudo nationalist bug, which inspires racism, abuse and > harrasment. After all Mughal, British India were also India, and we were the > people, lol. We still follow the british customs, the british system of > education, imperial brands and what not, how can we seperate that piece from > History, if Akbar can be On equal status with the Great lord, why not > elisabeth? And why do we still hover around the independance-colonial > hangover? > My accounts may be based on a few accounts, and with a bit of apparently > faded memory. So members,Please contri.... > > > > Regards, > Subhrodip > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pawan Durani > To: reader-list > Sent: Thursday, 2 July, 2009 5:52:27 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? > > Dear Readers , > > Many years back I had read that "Jana Gana Mana" or national anthem > was written in praise of King & Queen Of England. There were quite a > few justification about it written like the name of states were only > those which were under English control etc etc. > > If someone has good knowledge about this 'controversy' , I would love to > know . > > How true is it ? > > Regards > > Pawan > > Maybe dear friend Shuddha may write a note on this. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet > Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 09:43:59 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:43:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking Message-ID: Dear all I am very happy to see a mode of discussion which is less attacking individuals (and I was responsible too in a certain way and hence apologize), and more rational, and based on arguments. I hope we can all continue with this, and I too state that I won't repeat the mistakes of the past. I am putting here an article which I got in Tehelka, and from what it seems, this could be a dangerous way to go down, for on one hand it will destroy the childhood and the life of the children, and on the other, it will produce bigoted individuals who will have no tolerance and respect for anyone different from them. Hope some comments come on this too, like in other cases. Regards Rakesh Article: *A Strange And Bitter Crop* *An ambitious RSS social engineering project is transporting children from Meghalaya to Karnataka to bring them up ‘the Hindu way,’ discovers**SANJANA. ** Photographs by **S RADHAKRISHNA* ** IN AN investigation spanning 35 schools across Karnataka and four districts in Meghalaya, TEHELKA has found that since 2001, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) has embarked on an ambitious social engineering project to transfer at least 1,600 children from Meghalaya to RSS-friendly schools across Karnataka. The latest batch comprising 160 children arrived in Bengaluru on June 7, 2009. Thirty RSS volunteers accompanied the children on the 50-hour train journey down to the city. Tukaram Shetty, the RSS organiser responsible for the programme, in conversations spanning three months, candidly admitted to TEHELKA that the children were part of a larger mission launched by the RSS and its affiliate organisations to ‘protect’ people from Christian missionaries active in Meghalaya. “We are committed to nurturing the Hindu way of life. There is a long-term plan envisioned by the RSS to defeat the Christian missionary forces active in Meghalaya while expanding our base in the region. These children form a part of that long-term vision. In the years to come, they will propagate our values amongst their own family members,” A childhood recruit into the RSS fold, Shetty hails from Dakshina Kannada district of Karnataka and has spent close to eight years in Meghalaya – familiarising himself with the terrain and culture. The RSS programme brings to the fore several concerns operating as it does within the demographic context of Meghalaya. The state is one of the few Christian majority states in India, with 70.25 percent of the population being classified as Christians in the 2001 census. In comparison, Hindus are pegged at 13.27 percent while a category of religious compositions pegged as ‘others’ – a possible reference to the indigenous tribal religions – is at 11.52 percent. The first Christian missionaries arrived in the mid nineteenth century to work amongst the Garo, Khasi and Jaintia tribes living in the region that now comprises Meghalaya. Despite the long entrenched history of Christian conversions in the state, there exists a significant minority population of tribals who have steadfastly continued to practice their indigenous religions – their beliefs often spliced with a thin wedge of resentment against those who have chosen to convert. The RSS plans of ‘expanding the base in the region’ capitalises on this wedge of resentment with children and their education being — as Shetty admits — the starting points of engagement. The Thinkabettu Higher Primary and Secondary School in remote Uppur — nearly 500 km from Bengaluru — is one of the 35 schools in Karnataka where the children are studying. In 2008, 17 students between six and seven years were brought to this school from Meghalaya. Following instructions from the head of the school, the children of Thinkabettu School stand up, announce their names politely in Kannada, the local language, and sit down again on the bare floor. Ask the head of the school to introduce himself and he refuses, saying, “You have come to see the children, here they are. If I give you my name, you will use it against me.” The only details forthcoming are that he is a retired bank employee and that the school, which is a century old, was started by his father. A woman in the corner is revealed to be his wife, Nirmala. Introductions done, the children are asked to recite the latest prayer that they have memorised. Hands folded and eyes closed, the children, with shorn heads and in ragged clothes, begin a Brahminical chant that is a tribute to the teacher — Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwara. The children are sitting in the same hall that serves as their school and hostel. They live and breathe, eat and sleep and study on that same barren floor. A 30-watt bulb, a blackboard and a few books and slates neatly lined up complete the picture. An ancient fridge and a ramshackle sofa separate the children’s space from the kitchen area of the hall. *HARD FACTS* 1,600 children brought to Karnataka from Meghalaya since 2001 *The latest batch of 160 children arrived in Bengaluru on June 7, accompanied by 30 RSS volunteers* Siblings are always separated to ensure better discipline *Most schools where children are studying are in the communally disturbed coastal districts of Karnataka* While most children are from poorer backgrounds, richer families who are RSS sympathisers pay up to Rs 16,000 a year *Children often forget their native languages* Drawn from remote and often inaccessible villages across four districts in Meghalaya — Ri Bhoi, West Khasi Hills, East Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills — the children taken by the RSS to study in Karnataka belong to the Khasi and Jaintia tribal communities. Traditionally, the Khasi tribes follow the Seng Khasi religion, while the Jaintias follow Niamtre religion. Ask Manje Gowda, Headmaster at the Sri Adichunchanagiri Higher Primary School in BG Nagar, Mandya district where 38 children from Meghalaya currently study, why students are taken out of Meghalaya and he echoes Shetty’s logic, “If the children had stayed on in Meghalaya they would have been converted to Christianity by now. The RSS is trying to protect them. The education that the children receive here includes strong cultural values. When they go back home, after their education, they will help propagate these values to their families.” The cultural values that Gowda talks of imparting to children include familiarity with Brahiminical chants, Hindu religious festivals, and a weaning away from an overwhelmingly non-vegetarian Meghalayan diet to vegetarianism. How could this possibly help the RSS in expanding their base? Shetty told TEHELKA that indoctrination of cultural values and discipline was the first step. “It is important that children imbibe these values early on. It will bring them closer to us and away from the Christian way of life. We teach them shlokas so they will not recite hymns. We take them away from meat so they will abhor the animal sacrifice that is inherent in their own religion,” he says. “Ultimately, when the RSS tells them that the cow is a sacred animal and that all those who kill and eat it have no place in our society, these children will listen,” he recounts calmly. Are these children being groomed to be the future foot soldiers of RSS? Shetty’s only answer is that they will part of ‘the family’ in one way or another and that time will decide. As TEHELKA found, across schools in different districts of Karnataka, the cultural values imparted did not vary. The degrees of immersion into the RSS credo, however, depended on the schools the children were placed in. Children who came from financially stable homes were placed in schools with proper educational and hostel facilities since parents were able to pay for them. In these schools, the disciplinary regime imposed on the children was more relaxed compared to the schools where children from poorer families were placed. TEHELKA found that 60 percent of the children it met came from economically weaker families. Subsequently, the schools that these children were placed in resembled the Thinkabettu school in Uppur where both education and lodging facilities were free and dismal. Most of the schools where the children have been placed are located in the coastal belt of Karnataka, the region that has emerged as the centre of communal violence in the state. The places include Puttur, Kalladka, Kaup, Kollur, Uppur, Deralakatte, Moodbidri in Dakshina Kannada, Udupi and Chikmaglur districts. Besides these, the children have been placed in schools run by influential ashrams such as the JSS Mutt in Suttur, the Adi Chunchanagiri Mutt in Mandya district and the Murugrajendra Mutt in Chitradurga district. How do children from Meghalaya end up thousands of kilometres away in Karnataka? What is the modus operandi? Almost every child and parent that TEHELKA spoke with identified Tukaram Shetty as the man who proposed the idea of educating children in Karnataka, offered to take the children there and then ultimately accompanied the children to Karnataka. A former Seva Bharati (an RSS-affiliated community service organization) worker, Shetty is the official face of the Lei Synshar Cultural Society, a shell organisation established to maintain the required official distance from the RSS. In fact, the Lei Synshar Cultural Society is utterly unknown even outside its own head office in Jowai in the Jaintia Hills district. Ask for Tukaram or Bah Ram as he is called in Meghalaya and there are instant flashes of recognition. Outside the capital city, Shillong, right down to the village level, people easily recognise the RSS as the organisation that takes children to Karnataka. The organisation runs three offices in the Jaintia Hills district – in Jowai, Nartiang and Shongpong. Besides, there are several spaces occupied by the Seva Bharati and Kalyan Ashram organizations which help in the identification and transport of children. RSS organiser Tukaram Shetty candidly admitted that the children were part of a larger RSS mission to ‘protect’ them from Christian missionaries YOLIN KHARUMINI, a teacher at a local Seng Khasi school and resident at Shillong’s Kalyan Ashram described the process. “We are asked to identify families that have not converted to Christianity and are firm in their belief in indigenous religions — Seng Khasi and Niamtre. Usually, these are families that nurse some form of resentment against Christians. Offers are made to these families to have their children educated in Karnataka. We always tell them that they will be educated according to Seng Khasi or Niamtre traditions.” Kharumini’s own niece, Kerdamon Kharumini, studies in Mangala Nursing School in Karnataka. Lists are drawn up based on the parents’ capacity to afford the child’s education and hostel facilities. Continuing the narrative, Khatbiang Rymbai, a Class 10 student at Vidya - niketan School in Kaup, Udupi district described in detail how 200 children travelled to Bengaluru from various villages. “There were many young children. So when they divided us into groups of 13-14, the older children were put in charge. In Shillong, we were all given identification tags which had mobile numbers and the Jowai address of the Lei Synshar Cultural Society. From there, we traveled in Tata Sumos to Guwahati to take the train to Bengaluru,” she says. In Bengaluru, they were taken to the RSS office before being split into groups to go to their respective schools. The children are taught to avoid meat so they will start to abhor the religious sacrifices that are part and parcel of their native religions In a chilling admission, an RSS worker in Shillong, Prafulla Chandra Koch and the head of the Thinkabettu school told TEHELKA that care is always taken to ensure that any siblings are separated from each other. “It is easier to discipline them if they are not together. We have to control them if we have to mould them. The lesser the contact they have with home, the better it is, really,” he stated. TEHELKA met with several siblings placed in different schools – Khatbiang’s brother Supplybiang Rymbai was placed in Prashanti Vidya Kendra in Kasargod, Kerala while she studies in Vidyaniketan school near Udupi in Karnataka. Yet another student at Vidyaniketan, Reenborn Tariang admitted to having a sister, Wanboklin Tariang, at the JSS Mutt school in Mysore. Bedd Sympli at the Abhinav Bharati Boys Hostel in Mandya district has a sister studying in Vidyaniketan, Udupi district; Iwanroi Langbang a student at the Adi Chunchanagiri Mutt school in Mandya district had a sister, Daiamonlangki, at the Vanishree school in Shimoga district. There is not one instance of siblings studying together. Ask the children why they were separated and there are no answers. WHEN TEHELKA asked parents why they had chosen to place their children in different schools, they admitted they were only informed of it several months after the children had started school. Says Klis Rymbai, Khatbiang and Supplybiang’s older sister, “When they left home, all we knew was that they would go to Bengaluru. We had no details of the school they would go to – not even a name or address. Much later, we realised that Khatbiang and Supplybiang were separated and that they were not in Bengaluru. Khatbiang also told us she was repeating Class VIII after she got admitted into school. The RSS promised to take care of our children and we trusted them.” Klis admits that her family is attempting to bring Supplybiang back to Meghalaya. “He has not adjusted well and is still young so we want him to come back. Khatbiang has already lost a year so it is best she finishes school there,” says Klis. The Rymbais are extremely well off, having made their money through mining in the Jaintia Hills district. The father, Koren Chyrmang, is an RSS sympathiser, who, besides sending his own children, has helped convince other families to send their children across. “He used to be very active but has fallen sick of late This has prevented him from traveling to other villages in this area with the RSS,” says Klis. The physical and mental impact of studying in school environments diametrically opposed to their culture, language, religion, and food habits has been devastating. In the schools that TEHELKA visited, hostel wardens, heads of schools and the children themselves admitted to having had serious physical problems given the differences in climatic conditions between their villages in Meghalaya and schools in Karnataka. In the Deenabandhu Children’s Home, Chamarajnagar, Karnataka, according to the Secretary, GS Jayadev, the six-year-olds from Meghalaya — Shining Lamo, Sibin Ryngkhlem and Spid Khongshei — had skin rashes for over a month as their bodies tried to acclimatise to the heat of Karnataka. Besides rashes, Spid’s eyes turned bloodshot. Doctors at the hospital where Spid was taken by school authorities told them that it was a natural reaction to the altitudinal differences. In Thinkabettu school, too, children had severe sunburns on their faces, hands and legs though they had already spent three months in Karnataka when TEHELKA visited them. The situation was no different with the children studying in the Kalabyraveshwara Sanskrit College run by the Adichunchanagiri Mutt in Nagamangala. Of the 11 children from Meghalaya who were placed in this school, the oldest, Iohidahun Rabon (see box) told TEHELKA that the three of the younger ones — Sowatki Chulet, Tailang Nongdam and Perskimlang Nongkrot — were chronically ill since they had not taken to the food being given to them. The physical and mental impact of living in environments diametrically opposed to their culture, language, religion and food is devastating The psychological impact of the move was also obvious on several children. In all the schools that TEHELKA visited seeking information about children from Meghalaya, the school authorities summoned the children from their classes and instructed them to introduce themselves in Kannada. For the authorities, it was a matter of great pride that children who had no association with Kannada had been taught the language well. That students who did not know a word of Sanskrit earlier now recited Sanskrit prayers with great clarity. In the Sri Adichunchanagiri Higher Primary School in BG Nagar, Mandya district, the headmaster, Manje Gowda, flung a Kannada newspaper at a student from Meghalaya, ordering him to read it. Obediently, in a low voice, devoid of any expression, the boy proceeded to read a few sentences, before quietly folding and placing the newspaper back on the headmaster’s desk. Till he was sent away, the boy never looked up. In school after school, the same scene unfolded with variations in the demonstrations of skill and familiarity with Kannada and Sanskrit. While the authorities claimed that the students from Meghalaya had integrated well with the rest, there was overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise. A few minutes of conversation with the children brought out stories of how they were laughed at because their names were unfamiliar and because they looked different. Invariably, and especially amongst the older students, relationships were forged with others from Meghalaya. In classrooms, six or seven students from Meghalaya squeezed into a bench meant to seat four children. Speaking Kannada had integrated the children only so far. Faced with animosity, they have withdrawn into the familiar. In schools where this was not a possibility given the limited number of students from Meghalaya, they withdrew into themselves. The locations of the schools did not help alleviate their isolation at all. Iwanroi Langbang, a Class IX student currently staying in Nagamangala (about 150 kms from Bengaluru), talked of her disappointment at not studying in Bengaluru. “We were only told that I would be studying in Bengaluru. It was only after I came here that I heard the name of the school and realised that it was very far from Bengaluru. Here, we are not allowed outside the compound wall. And even if we get away, there is nothing outside,” said Langbang. Her school is located off an isolated stretch of the state highway. A consequence of completely immersing young children from Meghalaya in a Kannada-speaking environment was visible at the Deenabandhu Children’s Home in Chamarajnagar district. A caretaker at the Home described one child’s growing familiarity with Kannada, “Sibin [one of the children at the Home] has picked up a lot of Kannada in the two months he has been here. During a phone call from a relative back home, he kept answering questions in Kannada which obviously they did not understand at all.” In a shocking display of insensitivity, the caretaker burst into laughter at what she thought was a hilarious incident and added, “For 45 minutes, a woman, I assume his mother, kept trying. Sibin, of course, had no answers since he had forgotten his own language.” She giggled. The caretaker then proceeded to teach Sibin the Kannada word for dinner. ACCORDING TO Sibin’s birth certificate, he is six. Yet another certificate issued by the village headman of Sibin’s village, Mihmyntdu, certifies that he comes from a poor family and needs help for his education. TEHELKA was unable to contact his parents. The physical and mental consequences suffered by children from Meghalaya differ from the everyday story of children placed in several thousand boarding schools across the country. That there is a larger plan behind the transportation of these children is something that RSS workers like Koch, have no qualms admitting. Why are parents willing to send young children aged only six and seven to a distant place? In the face of these overwhelming disadvantages to the children, during visits with parents across eight villages in Meghalaya, TEHELKA found that parents — mostly poor — handed over their children to the RSS in the belief that their kids would be well cared for, as promised. Often, the transportation of children followed kinship routes, with younger siblings following older ones. While this may seem to defy logic, examined closely, it speaks of the intricate web of lies that the RSS has managed to weave, webs that ensnare parents, school authorities and often the children themselves. There are multiple untruths that are the foundation of this entire process. *PARENTS HAVE GIVEN THEIR CONSENT IN WRITING* Why are parents willing to send their children far from home? The mostly poor parents believe the RSS’ promises that the kids will be taken care of When TEHELKA approached schools in Karnataka seeking papers that legalise the transfers of children across states, letters signed by the village headman or the Rangbah Shnong attesting to the family’s poor economic condition were handed out along with birth and caste certificates. Across different schools that TEHELKA visited, not a single letter was produced with the parents’ signature that stated explicitly that the care of their children was handed over to that particular school. No parent that TEHELKA met in Meghalaya had copies of any signed consent letter signed. Under the Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Act, 2000 – such consent letters are mandatory for legal transfers of children. The transportation of children, then, with no official papers sanctioning the move, is in clear violation of the Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Act of 2000. Under this law, the RSS can be held guilty of child trafficking. *THE CHILDREN ARE IN SCHOOLS RUN ACCORDING TO THEIR SENG KHASI OR NIAMTRE RELIGIONS* Amongst the Khasi and Jaintia tribes, there is a tenuous relationship between those who have converted to Christianity and those who have not. The RSS carefully selects children from poor families who have not converted to Christianity. “I was told that the only way to protect my daughter from conversion was to send her outside. If I didn’t, the Church would take them away and make them priests and nuns,” said Biye Nongrum in Swer village. “I was afraid for my daughter and so I agreed to hand her over,” she says. Six years after her daughter left home, Biye has no details of the school that she is studying in. All she has is a class photograph. “I don’t have the money to visit my daughter and bring her back, even if I find out where she is. But I will never send another child away,” she says. Biye ekes out a living by selling sweet pancakes to richer families in the village. The ramshackle house that she shares with her mother and at least three other children further signal her poverty stricken condition. The socioeconomic status of the families are an indication of why it is difficult for the parents to ever bring their children back — they simply cannot afford it. Several parents told TEHELKA that the RSS schools where their children were studying were schools that upheld their indigenous religions – a rationale that has many takers. In Jel Chyrmang’s home in Mookhep village, TEHELKA found a framed photograph of Jel’s daughter, Rani Chyrmang, being felicitated by the patron saint of her school, Sri Balagangadharnath. Ask Jel who the saffron-robed saint is and she blithely repeats what she has been told, a story that would be hilarious if the circumstances were not so sad. According to Jel, Sri Balagangadharnath is a Seng Khasi saint who runs her daughter’s school. There is no doubt in her voice at all. Jel’s ignorance, however, does not extend to others in the family. Her husband, Denis Siangshai, who contested the recent Lok Sabha elections, turns out to be an RSS worker. Using his daughter as an example, he admitted to having convinced others in the area as well. “People have a wrong notion of RSS. I always tell them that the RSS will give them good education and culture,” says Denis. The transportation of children without clear consent letters from parents and guardians is a clear violation of the Juvenile Justice Act Most parents have no idea that the schools chosen by the RSS espouse a different ideology. Besides the forced culturisation, even the libraries and books handed out to the students are RSS publications from recognized right-wing publishing houses in Bengaluru. In the JSS Ashram school, the library was stocked with publications of RSS ideologues published from Bharata Samskruti Prakashana (Indian Culture Publications). No trace of Seng Khasi teachings or Niamtre practices. *THE CHILDREN ARE ABANDONED AND DESTITUTE* For a non-tribal society like Karnataka, the notion of a father abandoning the family is seen as a social and economic disaster. Meghalaya, though, is a matrilineal society, where men move to live with women in their villages. Mothers continue to remain the primary caretakers. Even if the mother dies, the child is brought up by relatives and is never entirely abandoned. *THE CHILDREN HAVE ADJUSTED WELL* When children first leave Meghalaya, parents and children are not aware where the children will ultimately be taken. As direct communication between the children and parents is limited owing to the socio-economic conditions of the parents and the lack of facilities at the schools, the RSS is the main intermediary between the two. The RSS tells parents that the children are happy and well adjusted in their new environments. The reality is something else. Raplangki Dkhar, a standard VI student at Vidyaniketan, was clearly waiting for his uncle to come take him home. “Only if people from home come and take us, we can go back. Every year when school ends, we hear that we will be taken back. But it has been two years already,” said a forlorn Raplangki. Only two of the children TEHELKA met had ever returned home to visit. Back in Raplangki’s hometown in Raliang, Meghalaya, when TEHELKA asked his uncle why he had not visited Raplangki, he is surprised, “I had no reason to doubt the fact that my nephew has adjusted well. At every RSS meeting in Jowai we are assured by them that the kids are healthy and happy.” Direct phone calls between children and parents are dependent entirely on the parents’ finances. If the parents have not been able to pay for the child’s education, the schools that they are placed in are often the free orphanages run by the Mutts, where access to phones is non-existent, as is the case with the free hostel run by the Sri Adichunchanagiri Mutt. For the RSS, these falsifications are part of a process. A process that is bound to add an additional layer of complexity amongst the people of Meghalaya, quite apart from the mental and social costs inflicted on young children. *WRITER’S EMAIL* sanjana at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 26, Dated July 04, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Historic judgement by Delhi High Court decriminalizes gay sex Read>> Liberhan Report Filed 16 Years Post Deadline By Sabika Muzaffar Nirupama Rao Appointed Next Foreign Secretary By Shruti Chakraborty Gunman shoots at cops during Sikh temple raids By Thomas Hochwarter More Stories>> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 10:10:05 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:10:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> *HERE IS WHY - ISI-Manipur separatist group link exposed * *Source: Hueiyen News Service / courtesy:Times Now * *New Delhi, July 01 2009:* TIMES NOW has exclusive information about Pakistan's ISI's clandestine links with a little known Islamic outfit operating in the North-East. According to documents available with TIMES NOW , the ISI has links with the People's United Liberation Front (PULF), an Islamic outfit based in Manipur. A key PULF operative who was recently arrested has revealed that several senior cadres of the outfit have trained in Pakistan with the strategic help and assistance of the ISI. The ISI's assistance to the PULF should be seen in the light of the fact that the organisation's prime objective and aim is to establish an Islamic state in India's North-East. The ISI has been known in the recent past to be working with Assam's ULFA through the Bangladeshi HUJI to destablise the North East, but this is the first direct attempt by the agency to interfere in this region. And, the PULF's major areas of operation are in the Imphal Valley as well as the hill districts of Chandel, Thoubal and Churchandpur. Lilong in Thoubal is its stronghold. It is also known to have bases in the Barak Valley in southern Assam besides Lakhimpur in Upper Assam, Nagoan in Central Assam and Barpeta in Lower Assam. PULF was formed in 1993 by members of Manipur's local Muslim community, the Pangals. Its aim is to establish an Islamic state in the North-East. Its cadre base is mainly drawn from the Pangal community in Manipur. It also has recruits from among Assamese Muslims. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I am very happy to see a mode of discussion which is less attacking > individuals (and I was responsible too in a certain way and hence > apologize), and more rational, and based on arguments. I hope we can all > continue with this, and I too state that I won't repeat the mistakes of the > past. > > I am putting here an article which I got in Tehelka, and from what it > seems, > this could be a dangerous way to go down, for on one hand it will destroy > the childhood and the life of the children, and on the other, it will > produce bigoted individuals who will have no tolerance and respect for > anyone different from them. > > Hope some comments come on this too, like in other cases. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > Article: > > > *A Strange And Bitter Crop* > > *An ambitious RSS social engineering project is transporting children from > Meghalaya to Karnataka to bring them up ‘the Hindu way,’ > discovers**SANJANA. > ** Photographs by **S RADHAKRISHNA* > > > ** > > IN AN investigation spanning 35 schools across Karnataka and four districts > in Meghalaya, TEHELKA has found that since 2001, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak > Sangh (RSS) has embarked on an ambitious social engineering project to > transfer at least 1,600 children from Meghalaya to RSS-friendly schools > across Karnataka. The latest batch comprising 160 children arrived in > Bengaluru on June 7, 2009. Thirty RSS volunteers accompanied the children > on > the 50-hour train journey down to the city. > > Tukaram Shetty, the RSS organiser responsible for the programme, in > conversations spanning three months, candidly admitted to TEHELKA that the > children were part of a larger mission launched by the RSS and its > affiliate > organisations to ‘protect’ people from Christian missionaries active in > Meghalaya. “We are committed to nurturing the Hindu way of life. There is a > long-term plan envisioned by the RSS to defeat the Christian missionary > forces active in Meghalaya while expanding our base in the region. These > children form a part of that long-term vision. In the years to come, they > will propagate our values amongst their own family members,” A childhood > recruit into the RSS fold, Shetty hails from Dakshina Kannada district of > Karnataka and has spent close to eight years in Meghalaya – familiarising > himself with the terrain and culture. > > The RSS programme brings to the fore several concerns operating as it does > within the demographic context of Meghalaya. The state is one of the few > Christian majority states in India, with 70.25 percent of the population > being classified as Christians in the 2001 census. In comparison, Hindus > are > pegged at 13.27 percent while a category of religious compositions pegged > as > ‘others’ – a possible reference to the indigenous tribal religions – is at > 11.52 percent. The first Christian missionaries arrived in the mid > nineteenth century to work amongst the Garo, Khasi and Jaintia tribes > living > in the region that now comprises Meghalaya. Despite the long entrenched > history of Christian conversions in the state, there exists a significant > minority population of tribals who have steadfastly continued to practice > their indigenous religions – their beliefs often spliced with a thin wedge > of resentment against those who have chosen to convert. The RSS plans of > ‘expanding the base in the region’ capitalises on this wedge of resentment > with children and their education being — as Shetty admits — the starting > points of engagement. > > The Thinkabettu Higher Primary and Secondary School in remote Uppur — > nearly > 500 km from Bengaluru — is one of the 35 schools in Karnataka where the > children are studying. In 2008, 17 students between six and seven years > were > brought to this school from Meghalaya. Following instructions from the head > of the school, the children of Thinkabettu School stand up, announce their > names politely in Kannada, the local language, and sit down again on the > bare floor. Ask the head of the school to introduce himself and he refuses, > saying, “You have come to see the children, here they are. If I give you my > name, you will use it against me.” The only details forthcoming are that he > is a retired bank employee and that the school, which is a century old, was > started by his father. A woman in the corner is revealed to be his wife, > Nirmala. > > Introductions done, the children are asked to recite the latest prayer that > they have memorised. Hands folded and eyes closed, the children, with shorn > heads and in ragged clothes, begin a Brahminical chant that is a tribute to > the teacher — Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwara. The children > are sitting in the same hall that serves as their school and hostel. They > live and breathe, eat and sleep and study on that same barren floor. A > 30-watt bulb, a blackboard and a few books and slates neatly lined up > complete the picture. An ancient fridge and a ramshackle sofa separate the > children’s space from the kitchen area of the hall. > > *HARD FACTS* > > 1,600 children brought to Karnataka from Meghalaya since 2001 > > *The latest batch of 160 children arrived in Bengaluru on June 7, > accompanied by 30 RSS volunteers* > > Siblings are always separated to ensure better discipline > > *Most schools where children are studying are in the communally disturbed > coastal districts of Karnataka* > > While most children are from poorer backgrounds, richer families who are > RSS > sympathisers pay up to Rs 16,000 a year > > *Children often forget their native languages* > > Drawn from remote and often inaccessible villages across four districts in > Meghalaya — Ri Bhoi, West Khasi Hills, East Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills — > the children taken by the RSS to study in Karnataka belong to the Khasi and > Jaintia tribal communities. Traditionally, the Khasi tribes follow the Seng > Khasi religion, while the Jaintias follow Niamtre religion. Ask Manje > Gowda, > Headmaster at the Sri Adichunchanagiri Higher Primary School in BG Nagar, > Mandya district where 38 children from Meghalaya currently study, why > students are taken out of Meghalaya and he echoes Shetty’s logic, “If the > children had stayed on in Meghalaya they would have been converted to > Christianity by now. The RSS is trying to protect them. The education that > the children receive here includes strong cultural values. When they go > back > home, after their education, they will help propagate these values to their > families.” > > The cultural values that Gowda talks of imparting to children include > familiarity with Brahiminical chants, Hindu religious festivals, and a > weaning away from an overwhelmingly non-vegetarian Meghalayan diet to > vegetarianism. How could this possibly help the RSS in expanding their > base? > Shetty told TEHELKA that indoctrination of cultural values and discipline > was the first step. “It is important that children imbibe these values > early > on. It will bring them closer to us and away from the Christian way of > life. > > We teach them shlokas so they will not recite hymns. We take them away from > meat so they will abhor the animal sacrifice that is inherent in their own > religion,” he says. “Ultimately, when the RSS tells them that the cow is a > sacred animal and that all those who kill and eat it have no place in our > society, these children will listen,” he recounts calmly. Are these > children > being groomed to be the future foot soldiers of RSS? Shetty’s only answer > is > that they will part of ‘the family’ in one way or another and that time > will > decide. > > As TEHELKA found, across schools in different districts of Karnataka, the > cultural values imparted did not vary. The degrees of immersion into the > RSS > credo, however, depended on the schools the children were placed in. > Children who came from financially stable homes were placed in schools with > proper educational and hostel facilities since parents were able to pay for > them. In these schools, the disciplinary regime imposed on the children was > more relaxed compared to the schools where children from poorer families > were placed. TEHELKA found that 60 percent of the children it met came from > economically weaker families. Subsequently, the schools that these children > were placed in resembled the Thinkabettu school in Uppur where both > education and lodging facilities were free and dismal. > > Most of the schools where the children have been placed are located in the > coastal belt of Karnataka, the region that has emerged as the centre of > communal violence in the state. The places include Puttur, Kalladka, Kaup, > Kollur, Uppur, Deralakatte, Moodbidri in Dakshina Kannada, Udupi and > Chikmaglur districts. Besides these, the children have been placed in > schools run by influential ashrams such as the JSS Mutt in Suttur, the Adi > Chunchanagiri Mutt in Mandya district and the Murugrajendra Mutt in > Chitradurga district. > > How do children from Meghalaya end up thousands of kilometres away in > Karnataka? What is the modus operandi? Almost every child and parent that > TEHELKA spoke with identified Tukaram Shetty as the man who proposed the > idea of educating children in Karnataka, offered to take the children there > and then ultimately accompanied the children to Karnataka. > > A former Seva Bharati (an RSS-affiliated community service organization) > worker, Shetty is the official face of the Lei Synshar Cultural Society, a > shell organisation established to maintain the required official distance > from the RSS. In fact, the Lei Synshar Cultural Society is utterly unknown > even outside its own head office in Jowai in the Jaintia Hills district. > Ask > for Tukaram or Bah Ram as he is called in Meghalaya and there are instant > flashes of recognition. Outside the capital city, Shillong, right down to > the village level, people easily recognise the RSS as the organisation that > takes children to Karnataka. The organisation runs three offices in the > Jaintia Hills district – in Jowai, Nartiang and Shongpong. Besides, there > are several spaces occupied by the Seva Bharati and Kalyan Ashram > organizations which help in the identification and transport of children. > RSS organiser Tukaram Shetty candidly admitted that the children were part > of a larger RSS mission to ‘protect’ them from Christian missionaries > > YOLIN KHARUMINI, a teacher at a local Seng Khasi school and resident at > Shillong’s Kalyan Ashram described the process. “We are asked to identify > families that have not converted to Christianity and are firm in their > belief in indigenous religions — Seng Khasi and Niamtre. Usually, these are > families that nurse some form of resentment against Christians. Offers are > made to these families to have their children educated in Karnataka. We > always tell them that they will be educated according to Seng Khasi or > Niamtre traditions.” Kharumini’s own niece, Kerdamon Kharumini, studies in > Mangala Nursing School in Karnataka. Lists are drawn up based on the > parents’ capacity to afford the child’s education and hostel facilities. > > Continuing the narrative, Khatbiang Rymbai, a Class 10 student at Vidya - > niketan School in Kaup, Udupi district described in detail how 200 children > travelled to Bengaluru from various villages. “There were many young > children. So when they divided us into groups of 13-14, the older children > were put in charge. In Shillong, we were all given identification tags > which > had mobile numbers and the Jowai address of the Lei Synshar Cultural > Society. From there, we traveled in Tata Sumos to Guwahati to take the > train > to Bengaluru,” she says. In Bengaluru, they were taken to the RSS office > before being split into groups to go to their respective schools. > The children are taught to avoid meat so they will start to abhor the > religious sacrifices that are part and parcel of their native religions > > In a chilling admission, an RSS worker in Shillong, Prafulla Chandra Koch > and the head of the Thinkabettu school told TEHELKA that care is always > taken to ensure that any siblings are separated from each other. “It is > easier to discipline them if they are not together. We have to control them > if we have to mould them. The lesser the contact they have with home, the > better it is, really,” he stated. > > TEHELKA met with several siblings placed in different schools – Khatbiang’s > brother Supplybiang Rymbai was placed in Prashanti Vidya Kendra in > Kasargod, > Kerala while she studies in Vidyaniketan school near Udupi in Karnataka. > Yet > another student at Vidyaniketan, Reenborn Tariang admitted to having a > sister, Wanboklin Tariang, at the JSS Mutt school in Mysore. Bedd Sympli at > the Abhinav Bharati Boys Hostel in Mandya district has a sister studying in > Vidyaniketan, Udupi district; Iwanroi Langbang a student at the Adi > Chunchanagiri Mutt school in Mandya district had a sister, Daiamonlangki, > at > the Vanishree school in Shimoga district. There is not one instance of > siblings studying together. Ask the children why they were separated and > there are no answers. > > WHEN TEHELKA asked parents why they had chosen to place their children in > different schools, they admitted they were only informed of it several > months after the children had started school. Says Klis Rymbai, Khatbiang > and Supplybiang’s older sister, “When they left home, all we knew was that > they would go to Bengaluru. We had no details of the school they would go > to > – not even a name or address. Much later, we realised that Khatbiang and > Supplybiang were separated and that they were not in Bengaluru. Khatbiang > also told us she was repeating Class VIII after she got admitted into > school. The RSS promised to take care of our children and we trusted them.” > Klis admits that her family is attempting to bring Supplybiang back to > Meghalaya. “He has not adjusted well and is still young so we want him to > come back. Khatbiang has already lost a year so it is best she finishes > school there,” says Klis. The Rymbais are extremely well off, having made > their money through mining in the Jaintia Hills district. The father, Koren > Chyrmang, is an RSS sympathiser, who, besides sending his own children, has > helped convince other families to send their children across. “He used to > be > very active but has fallen sick of late This has prevented him from > traveling to other villages in this area with the RSS,” says Klis. > > The physical and mental impact of studying in school environments > diametrically opposed to their culture, language, religion, and food habits > has been devastating. In the schools that TEHELKA visited, hostel wardens, > heads of schools and the children themselves admitted to having had serious > physical problems given the differences in climatic conditions between > their > villages in Meghalaya and schools in Karnataka. In the Deenabandhu > Children’s Home, Chamarajnagar, Karnataka, according to the Secretary, GS > Jayadev, the six-year-olds from Meghalaya — Shining Lamo, Sibin Ryngkhlem > and Spid Khongshei — had skin rashes for over a month as their bodies tried > to acclimatise to the heat of Karnataka. Besides rashes, Spid’s eyes turned > bloodshot. Doctors at the hospital where Spid was taken by school > authorities told them that it was a natural reaction to the altitudinal > differences. > > In Thinkabettu school, too, children had severe sunburns on their faces, > hands and legs though they had already spent three months in Karnataka when > TEHELKA visited them. The situation was no different with the children > studying in the Kalabyraveshwara Sanskrit College run by the > Adichunchanagiri Mutt in Nagamangala. Of the 11 children from Meghalaya who > were placed in this school, the oldest, Iohidahun Rabon (see box) told > TEHELKA that the three of the younger ones — Sowatki Chulet, Tailang > Nongdam > and Perskimlang Nongkrot — were chronically ill since they had not taken to > the food being given to them. > The physical and mental impact of living in environments diametrically > opposed to their culture, language, religion and food is devastating > > The psychological impact of the move was also obvious on several children. > In all the schools that TEHELKA visited seeking information about children > from Meghalaya, the school authorities summoned the children from their > classes and instructed them to introduce themselves in Kannada. For the > authorities, it was a matter of great pride that children who had no > association with Kannada had been taught the language well. That students > who did not know a word of Sanskrit earlier now recited Sanskrit prayers > with great clarity. In the Sri Adichunchanagiri Higher Primary School in BG > Nagar, Mandya district, the headmaster, Manje Gowda, flung a Kannada > newspaper at a student from Meghalaya, ordering him to read it. Obediently, > in a low voice, devoid of any expression, the boy proceeded to read a few > sentences, before quietly folding and placing the newspaper back on the > headmaster’s desk. Till he was sent away, the boy never looked up. In > school > after school, the same scene unfolded with variations in the demonstrations > of skill and familiarity with Kannada and Sanskrit. > > While the authorities claimed that the students from Meghalaya had > integrated well with the rest, there was overwhelming evidence to suggest > otherwise. A few minutes of conversation with the children brought out > stories of how they were laughed at because their names were unfamiliar and > because they looked different. Invariably, and especially amongst the older > students, relationships were forged with others from Meghalaya. In > classrooms, six or seven students from Meghalaya squeezed into a bench > meant > to seat four children. Speaking Kannada had integrated the children only so > far. Faced with animosity, they have withdrawn into the familiar. In > schools > where this was not a possibility given the limited number of students from > Meghalaya, they withdrew into themselves. > > The locations of the schools did not help alleviate their isolation at all. > Iwanroi Langbang, a Class IX student currently staying in Nagamangala > (about > 150 kms from Bengaluru), talked of her disappointment at not studying in > Bengaluru. “We were only told that I would be studying in Bengaluru. It was > only after I came here that I heard the name of the school and realised > that > it was very far from Bengaluru. Here, we are not allowed outside the > compound wall. And even if we get away, there is nothing outside,” said > Langbang. Her school is located off an isolated stretch of the state > highway. > > A consequence of completely immersing young children from Meghalaya in a > Kannada-speaking environment was visible at the Deenabandhu Children’s Home > in Chamarajnagar district. A caretaker at the Home described one child’s > growing familiarity with Kannada, “Sibin [one of the children at the Home] > has picked up a lot of Kannada in the two months he has been here. During a > phone call from a relative back home, he kept answering questions in > Kannada > which obviously they did not understand at all.” In a shocking display of > insensitivity, the caretaker burst into laughter at what she thought was a > hilarious incident and added, “For 45 minutes, a woman, I assume his > mother, > kept trying. Sibin, of course, had no answers since he had forgotten his > own > language.” She giggled. The caretaker then proceeded to teach Sibin the > Kannada word for dinner. > > ACCORDING TO Sibin’s birth certificate, he is six. Yet another certificate > issued by the village headman of Sibin’s village, Mihmyntdu, certifies that > he comes from a poor family and needs help for his education. TEHELKA was > unable to contact his parents. > > The physical and mental consequences suffered by children from Meghalaya > differ from the everyday story of children placed in several thousand > boarding schools across the country. That there is a larger plan behind the > transportation of these children is something that RSS workers like Koch, > have no qualms admitting. > > Why are parents willing to send young children aged only six and seven to a > distant place? In the face of these overwhelming disadvantages to the > children, during visits with parents across eight villages in Meghalaya, > TEHELKA found that parents — mostly poor — handed over their children to > the > RSS in the belief that their kids would be well cared for, as promised. > Often, the transportation of children followed kinship routes, with younger > siblings following older ones. While this may seem to defy logic, examined > closely, it speaks of the intricate web of lies that the RSS has managed to > weave, webs that ensnare parents, school authorities and often the children > themselves. There are multiple untruths that are the foundation of this > entire process. > > *PARENTS HAVE GIVEN THEIR CONSENT IN WRITING* > Why are parents willing to send their children far from home? The mostly > poor parents believe the RSS’ promises that the kids will be taken care of > > When TEHELKA approached schools in Karnataka seeking papers that legalise > the transfers of children across states, letters signed by the village > headman or the Rangbah Shnong attesting to the family’s poor economic > condition were handed out along with birth and caste certificates. Across > different schools that TEHELKA visited, not a single letter was produced > with the parents’ signature that stated explicitly that the care of their > children was handed over to that particular school. No parent that TEHELKA > met in Meghalaya had copies of any signed consent letter signed. Under the > Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of Children) Act, 2000 – such consent > letters are mandatory for legal transfers of children. > > The transportation of children, then, with no official papers sanctioning > the move, is in clear violation of the Juvenile Justice (Care and > Protection > of Children) Act of 2000. Under this law, the RSS can be held guilty of > child trafficking. > > *THE CHILDREN ARE IN SCHOOLS RUN ACCORDING TO THEIR SENG KHASI OR NIAMTRE > RELIGIONS* > > Amongst the Khasi and Jaintia tribes, there is a tenuous relationship > between those who have converted to Christianity and those who have not. > The > RSS carefully selects children from poor families who have not converted to > Christianity. “I was told that the only way to protect my daughter from > conversion was to send her outside. If I didn’t, the Church would take them > away and make them priests and nuns,” said Biye Nongrum in Swer village. “I > was afraid for my daughter and so I agreed to hand her over,” she says. Six > years after her daughter left home, Biye has no details of the school that > she is studying in. All she has is a class photograph. “I don’t have the > money to visit my daughter and bring her back, even if I find out where she > is. But I will never send another child away,” she says. Biye ekes out a > living by selling sweet pancakes to richer families in the village. The > ramshackle house that she shares with her mother and at least three other > children further signal her poverty stricken condition. The socioeconomic > status of the families are an indication of why it is difficult for the > parents to ever bring their children back — they simply cannot afford it. > > Several parents told TEHELKA that the RSS schools where their children were > studying were schools that upheld their indigenous religions – a rationale > that has many takers. In Jel Chyrmang’s home in Mookhep village, TEHELKA > found a framed photograph of Jel’s daughter, Rani Chyrmang, being > felicitated by the patron saint of her school, Sri Balagangadharnath. Ask > Jel who the saffron-robed saint is and she blithely repeats what she has > been told, a story that would be hilarious if the circumstances were not so > sad. According to Jel, Sri Balagangadharnath is a Seng Khasi saint who runs > her daughter’s school. There is no doubt in her voice at all. Jel’s > ignorance, however, does not extend to others in the family. Her husband, > Denis Siangshai, who contested the recent Lok Sabha elections, turns out to > be an RSS worker. Using his daughter as an example, he admitted to having > convinced others in the area as well. “People have a wrong notion of RSS. I > always tell them that the RSS will give them good education and culture,” > says Denis. > The transportation of children without clear consent letters from parents > and guardians is a clear violation of the Juvenile Justice Act > > Most parents have no idea that the schools chosen by the RSS espouse a > different ideology. Besides the forced culturisation, even the libraries > and > books handed out to the students are RSS publications from recognized > right-wing publishing houses in Bengaluru. In the JSS Ashram school, the > library was stocked with publications of RSS ideologues published from > Bharata Samskruti Prakashana (Indian Culture Publications). No trace of > Seng > Khasi teachings or Niamtre practices. > > *THE CHILDREN ARE ABANDONED AND DESTITUTE* > > For a non-tribal society like Karnataka, the notion of a father abandoning > the family is seen as a social and economic disaster. Meghalaya, though, is > a matrilineal society, where men move to live with women in their villages. > Mothers continue to remain the primary caretakers. Even if the mother dies, > the child is brought up by relatives and is never entirely abandoned. > > *THE CHILDREN HAVE ADJUSTED WELL* > > When children first leave Meghalaya, parents and children are not aware > where the children will ultimately be taken. As direct communication > between > the children and parents is limited owing to the socio-economic conditions > of the parents and the lack of facilities at the schools, the RSS is the > main intermediary between the two. The RSS tells parents that the children > are happy and well adjusted in their new environments. The reality is > something else. > > Raplangki Dkhar, a standard VI student at Vidyaniketan, was clearly waiting > for his uncle to come take him home. “Only if people from home come and > take > us, we can go back. Every year when school ends, we hear that we will be > taken back. But it has been two years already,” said a forlorn Raplangki. > Only two of the children TEHELKA met had ever returned home to visit. Back > in Raplangki’s hometown in Raliang, Meghalaya, when TEHELKA asked his uncle > why he had not visited Raplangki, he is surprised, “I had no reason to > doubt > the fact that my nephew has adjusted well. At every RSS meeting in Jowai we > are assured by them that the kids are healthy and happy.” > > Direct phone calls between children and parents are dependent entirely on > the parents’ finances. If the parents have not been able to pay for the > child’s education, the schools that they are placed in are often the free > orphanages run by the Mutts, where access to phones is non-existent, as is > the case with the free hostel run by the Sri Adichunchanagiri Mutt. > > For the RSS, these falsifications are part of a process. A process that is > bound to add an additional layer of complexity amongst the people of > Meghalaya, quite apart from the mental and social costs inflicted on young > children. > > *WRITER’S EMAIL* > sanjana at tehelka.com > > *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 26, Dated July 04, 2009* > > > > > Print this story< > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne040709a_strange.asp#> > Feedback< > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne040709a_strange.asp#> > Add > to favorites< > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne040709a_strange.asp#> > Email > this story< > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne040709a_strange.asp#> > > Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay > Sex > By Sabika Muzaffar Historic judgement by Delhi High Court decriminalizes > gay sex Read>> > Liberhan Report Filed 16 Years Post > Deadline > By Sabika Muzaffar > Nirupama Rao Appointed Next Foreign Secretary > > By Shruti Chakraborty > Gunman shoots at cops during Sikh temple > raids > By Thomas Hochwarter More > Stories>> > > > < > http://www.rambhai.com/openx-2.6.2/www/delivery/ck.php?n=ac3ca205&cb=21121 > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 10:12:37 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:12:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GENOCIDE-TOPSY TURVY Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907022142m451f5367qd4077b6896ef5ec5@mail.gmail.com> GENOCIDE-TOPSY TURVY The Kashmir Pandit petition to the NHRC was a history sheet of happenings and events culminating in their genocide at the hands of Kashmiri Muslim fundamentalists. It is true it did not essentially conform in size and form to a petition but it did recount wants and happenings that faced the community at the hands of these well armed and treacherous people. To treat it as falling short and shora  of the legal form or being lax in its strict determinations called upon in such matters in the prevailing circumstances was to expect for the moon. The community in fear and terror, uprooted from its ethos and roots, haunted and disgraced for being Hindus i.e., Kafirs to Muslim fundamentalists, was at its wits end and even so managed to cry foul of this dread pestilence, though it may not have conformed to strict codes of ‘definitions’ formalities, which under the circumstances was neither possible nor practicable and insistence upon the same with digressions of space and time has made the petition more or less infructious merely on technicalities. It is a pity that the hon’ble Commission has not appreciated the wounded collective psyche which formed the body of the petition. It is no wonder that the hon’ble Commission none of whom had to be a witness to this high tragedy not to say suffer its agony could bring itself to the agonised level of the victims of this catastrophe and therefore not expected to do full just ice to their trauma and tragedy. The commission has insisted  too much on the letter of the law the ‘intent’, i.e. the intention. behind the collective crime to classify or place the tragedy within the ambit of ‘genocide’ which it has found lacking in the killings of the KPs by the Kashmiri Muslim fundamentalists. It has instead found the immediate intent in their i.e. of the fundamentalists urge for secession, the resultant ‘genocide’ removed a fool farther behind this urge and therefore resultant and not the instant intent. Indeed such calamities cannot be found to fit the confines of this or that authority on the subject of genocide which assumes different aspects in different historical situations. Definitions can not evunciate situations the latter in fact modifying definition from time to time according to the exigencies of each situation. Law can not be a shait jacket if it is assumed the so, it become an ass! Any definition or motivations is provided by the circumstances obtaining in each historical case. A definition arrived at decades leak can not mechanically be transplanted and applied for entirely a different set of historical circumstances. It has to be in a flux, continuously assuming different contuous in different historical settings. It is difficult, if not impossible to find two similar cases in different historical contexts to fit squarely within the confines of an earlier definition. The definitions too do ask for enrichment a continuous involvement, or else they fade out as irrelevant. This the historically provided motivation is more relevant then any other mechanical application of “definitions” evolved in different historical contexts.  There is nothing innuctable not even the so called “definition”. It is the historical motivation that is relevant and a determinant in each and every case. Let us, therefore, visit the history of Kashmir to form an idea of the intent behind the repeated ‘genocide of Kashmiri Pandits at the hands of Muslim fundamentalist from time to time, the fast impulse the first intent providing the eradication of ‘Kufur’ infidelity-either by killing them wholesale or mass conversions. And these episodes directly from the history looks written by men of faith and not Kafirs are revealing and as well instructive. Records Baharistan-i-Shahi with the help of some of the chiefs of this land, some of them had reverted to the customs of infidels and polytheists. These apostates had resumed idolatry some of the infidels related that during the hours of offering prayers and worshipping of idols, they would place a cops of the Quran under their launches to make a seat to sit upon. Thus idol worshipping proceeded him as they sat on the divine book, when the news and details of these doings were brought to Amir Shamsuddin Iraqi he summoned Halik Haji Chak to him accompanied by Malik Ali and Kh Ahmad, his two counsellors and administrators, Halik Kaji Chak presented himself before the venerable Amir who declared to them. This committing of idolators has after entracing and subnuthey to the Islamic faith now gone back to defiance and apartsay... Thus seven to eight hundred  infidels were put to death”. Baharistan-i-Shahi further records “those killed were the leading personalities of the community of infidels at the time, men of substance and Govt functionaries. Each of them wielded influence and sway over hundred families of other infidels and hactics. Thus the entire community of infidels and polytheisls in Kashmir was coerced into conversion to Islam at the point of sword. During the Govt of Malik Musa Raina, all the depraved ... of this land-Kashmir-had been converted to Islam, recofs Bahrishan-e-Shahi. The Bahrustan-e-Shahi also records But with the support and authority of Malik Musa Raina, Amir Shamsuddin Mohd. Undertook a wholesale destruction of all those idol houses as well as the ruination of the very foundation of infidelity and disbelief on the site of every idol house he destroyed the ordered the construction of a mosque for offering prayers after the Islamic manner... It is publicly known that during his life time, with the virtuous efforts and elaborate arrangements made of the fortunate Malik Musa Raina twenty four thousand families of staunch infidels and shibborn hectics were enrolled by being converted to Islam.” Reads Tohfatul Ahbab- “At the behest of Shaus Irafi, Musa Raina had ordered 1500 to 2000 infidels to be brought to his door steps any day .. his followers. They would remove their sacred threads, administer ‘Kalima’ to them, circumcise them and thrust lumps of beef into their mouths”. ii) As may as eighteen big temples in the city of Srinagar and in rural areas of the Valley were completely destroyed under the instructions and orders of Shamsuddin Iraqi and Malik Musa Raina”. Towards the fag end of his life Sultan Sikander was injured with a zeal for demolishing idol houses, destroying temples and idols of the infidels. He destroyed the massive temple at Bijbehara. He had designs to destroy all the temples and put an end to the entire community of infidel-records Bharistan-i-Shahi. “Many of the Brahman rather than abandon their religion or their country poisoned themselves, some emigrated from their houses while a few escaped the evil of banishment by becoming Mohammadans” writes Farishta. Twenty four thousand families were converted at one stroke to the faith of Islam by force and compulsion (qahran and gabran” ) Records Hassan in Tarikh-i-Kashmir page 223. Enough of these historical samples where number is though legion. The aforesaid quotes from the histories of Kashmir are a pointer to a particularly consistent and common running through ale the loots, the massacres and killings of the community as an ethno religious minority. This has not however, been peculiarly common to a certain period in history but has been the usual feature in the modern times too from time to time the genocide of 1989-90 not being at all an exception for which any other dominating factor has to be sought for; the only distinctive feature being transition from swords and sticks to bullets and bombs etc supplied in an external agency for reasons of its own which bears a larger dimension against the Hindu majority of India. In the case of Kashmir, the perpetrators already having history of genocide propensities right for the advent and Muslim rule. Mercifully been the hon’ble commission had in its judgement in para-62 through observed interalea... And there can be no gainsaying the acute suffering and deprivation caused to the community... the commission is constrained to observe that while acts akin to genocide have occurred in respect of the Kashmiri Pandits, grave as they undoubtedly are, fall short of the ultimate crime genocide. In other words, it is conveyed that the acts akin to genocide, the commission is restricted by the formalities prescribed in this behalf by experts who though have had an experience of an entirely different character in a different context. The historical witnesses quoted here-in-before are proof enough of the orgy repeated genocide of Kashmiri Pandit Community from time to time for no other reason than of being a religious minority in the Valley of Kashmir, the same intent and impulse having also generated the genocide of 1989-90 in a new historical situation when the local maranders found new allies extra territorially. The Hon’ble Commission has exclusively depended upon the reports of the state agencies and not deemed it necessary to make an independent and impartial investigation to arrive at the truth. While state has the capacity and the means to distort the truth, the dispossessed and expropriated victims have neither the capacity nor the means to compete in this sordid business in which the truth is casualty. An in-depth and impartial investigation above is expected to bring out the real truth without the need of an over dependence on professionals for their fees are supposed to represent both the victim and the bully with equanimity and the least pangs of conscience. The acts akin to genocide having been acknowledged to have happened along with the motivation in the minds of some perpetrators. There would appear no reason why the Hon’ble Commission falling short of calling a spade a spade thus making truth itself a casualty supposedly in the minds of people on account of competitive secular--non-secular considerations. A distinction would need to be made in the proceedings as between a commission and a govt the later strictly depending upon the capacity of the parties to prove their point on the strength of their witnesses and the capacity of the extending legal luminaries which necessarily does not lead to the divulgence of truth for both the witnesses and the law-without of course, any disrespect to any quarter can be purchased which, however, is beyond the capacity of dispossessed and expropriated community. In the process truth becoming the casualty. The Hon’ble Commission would therefore, need to go deeper into the roots of the tragedy on its own inlegal parlance suo-moto again a fresh without much dependence on the state agencies which have mutiliated and manipulated the whole truth are in every way interested in camoflouging the reality as the state administration was and is all along biased against the complainants. Indeed it is the very same cover up of the truth off and on that has perpetuated this menace. It is worth while mention here that the entire state administration a right from the beginning of the socalled, “Peoples Raj” and move particularly so since the onset of ‘terrorism’ against KP community has made common cause with this brutal force as the state bureaucracy and the law and order machinery comprise largely the elements from anti-national outfits like the Al-Fateh and Plebiscite Front etc instructed all along on the lore of Muslim fundamentalism. Thus the whole atmosphere been fouled dependence upon the state agencies to present a factual position to the commission has been misplaced which explains the imperatives of an independent enquiry; the only means to arrive at the unvarnished truth. The state government has enlarged the time frame from 1989 to 1997 instead of restricting it to 1989-90 as such a course has provided the state statistical support for dilution of the change of genocide against the Pandits committed largely since the end of 1989 to the end of 1991 when definitely no Muslim was targeted and the ourslaught was exclusively directed against the Pandits, the only victims who had to leave their homes and hearths to escape the fate of hundreds of their co-religionists and were on notice of the terrorist outfits to quit or face the inevitable. Subsequently Muslims also fell victims of these terrorists. It was and has largely been for reasons of inter and intra terrorist gang rivalries and not for any other reason and if some of them have assumed the garb of ‘migrants’ it has been a contrived affair by both the state agencies and the political wing of the terrorists in attempt to escape the shame and slur of genocide of Pandits. Here it may also be stated that the exception of some Pandits having stayed back and survived in fact proves the rules as even in similar situations in the past which bears testimony there existed once only eleven KP families in the Valley. In any event these unfortunate Pandits are living as Pandits on borrowed time. There still is hope in the Pandit mind that the truth will at last prevail. Source: Kashmir Sentinel From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 10:13:09 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:13:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya jee I would be glad to know the intentions and the views you wish to express through this bit of news you have posted on the forum. Regards Rakesh From lawrence at altlawforum.org Fri Jul 3 10:39:08 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:39:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Most cases under Sec 377 are for child abuse In-Reply-To: <6353c690907022044x4c3ebab1m4a51c8bf7776f832@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022044x4c3ebab1m4a51c8bf7776f832@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: And the provision will continue to exists for child abuse, since it is only a reading down of the provision to the extent that it applies to adult consensual sex, so no fears on that count. This reporter has clearly not done his home work or preferred to present a lop sided account Amod Kanth, the chairman, Delhi Commission for Protection of Child Rights was on NDTV at eight, and I was a little confused about which hat he was wearing. While it is fine for him to articulate the rpotection of chil rights, at ehe end he also says that as a former cop, he has always felt that homosexuality was and continues to be unnatural To slightly misquote Shashi Kapoor in Deewar, Police officer bhai ke roop me bol raha hain 2009/7/3 Aditya Raj Kaul > Most cases under Sec 377 are for child abuse > *Vijaita Singh< > http://www.hindustantimes.com/Search/Search.aspx?q=Vijaita%20Singh&nodate=1 > >, > Hindustan Times > New Delhi, July 03, 2009* > > More than 300 cases have been registered under Section 377 of the Indian > Penal Code over the past five years in Delhi alone. In 90 per cent cases, > the people who were booked were adults, held on charges of abusing > children, > mostly boys and in few cases, girls. > > None of the cases registered were for incidents where there was mutual > consent. > > Till June 30 this year, 32 cases had been registered under Section 377 IPC > in Delhi. > > In May, police had arrested a 21-year-old cleric on charges of allegedly > sodomising a 10-year-old boy in the Hazrat Nizamuddin area of south Delhi. > > Police and child right activists say this is the only section that is > slapped against people who abuse children. > > According to the Crime Records Bureau information and studies on criminal > jurisprudence and child abuse in India, Section 377 is the only legal > provision to protect the millions of abused children and to supplement the > shortcomings in the rape laws, which apply only when there is a vaginal > penetration. > > “We have never arrested people where there was a mutual consent. Majority > of > the reported cases are those of child abuse and crime against weaker sex. > In > absence of this section we wouldn’t be able to book such offenders,” said a > senior police officer on condition of anonymity. > > On December 27 last, police had arrested a Home Guard for allegedly > sodomising a 16-year-old boy near Kashmere Gate in north Delhi. Police said > the accused had lured the teenager to a park where he reportedly sexually > assaulted him. > > Amod Kanth, chairman, Delhi Commission for Protection of Child Rights > (DCPCR), said, “Section 377 of the IPC happens to be the only protection of > law for children and minors and adults who are sodomised against their will > because such sexual assaults fall within the definition of ‘unnatural > offences’.” > > “Adult transgenders and homosexuals who indulge in consensual sex are > usually not punished under the section,” he said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Fri Jul 3 10:54:17 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:54:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? In-Reply-To: <85a3156a0907022108l5625f89di1f61fad5ffa0b49a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907020522n5eca8f91pbc5ada5e07fc4544@mail.gmail.com> <160361.37043.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <85a3156a0907022108l5625f89di1f61fad5ffa0b49a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <771609.59241.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Sorry Thanks Ms sen, It's George V not liza. ________________________________ From: Jhuma Sen To: subhrodip sengupta Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Friday, 3 July, 2009 9:38:02 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? I had read this article some time back when the controversy started gathering itself around the national anthem. A part of it is produced below.  "The mythology surrounds the 1911 visit to India by King George V. To commemorate the occasion, the Indian National Congress (INC) approached Tagore for a poem of welcome. As Yeats (his Irish admirer of many years) recalled later, Tagore was deeply troubled by the assignment. Early one morning, he composed a very beautiful poem and handed it over to his colleagues. He suggested that it was a poem addressed to God, and that they should give it to the Congress people. At the Calcutta Congress session which began on December 16, 1911, the second day was apparently devoted entirely to welcoming King George V. Jana Gana Mana was sung on this occasion. Thereafter, the newspaper reports maintained that it was sung as a salute to the King Emperor (George V). Since Tagore did not immediately refute the allegation, the perception spread that the song was a eulogy to the monarchy. ....................................................................... In Tagore's collected works, it is mentioned that the INC requested that Tagore write a felicitation to the King Emperor as an appeasement gesture to the British monarchy in response to the annulment of the Bengal Partition Act. Not only was Tagore troubled by the request, he was downright offended by it. It is said that Jana Gana Mana was written more out of protest and rebellion than adoration towards the monarchy. An objective reading of the song should make it eminently clear as to whom the poet decided to offer his worship. In a letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense." (http://homepages.udayton.edu/~chattemr/janaganamana.html) Regards Jhuma  On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, subhrodip sengupta wrote: Dear Pawan, >Yup some bengali scholar showed some letters to show that it was an appeasement in pro quo to knighthood. on some officer's request. The letters were shown but alas are neither available, nor anybody bothered to match the handwritings, tagore used a typical cursive. However, since the scholar was a bramhin,  and most of them who suported this view, years after tagores death were also bramhins, some people suggested it was another attack to outcaste the Bramho's a british- aided organisation. My take is thus, so many years after tagores death, we research on him . Good. But we do not provide funds for educating and enhancing many more contemporary poets, exept his variety, his writings are greatly inspired from west. There were many morderns who couldnt get recognision in lifetime true. but this master piece which would be bad to suggest tagore thought India lacked oneness or one leader would imply the >A. Identity politics Gandhi and tagore giving each other names, >B . The desire of Rule, ONe big India, Siasat, the impermissibility of independance, later on. Jinnah had to be given his fair stake so that Nehru could be PM, under identity system. >C. My knowledge of History is really weak, but in 1940's when the first charkha bearing congress flag was flown, tagore was not in list. Most probably the partition scenario and disparity in though which prompted to select this song, reminds us of father of nation, Nehru and others. Their right to fame, I guess. >Remember RGV's RANN.   We should seriously consider skipping the Sind word, in India I believe. And With Indian Navy bearing British symboll for long, well this tradition is also imbibed from them, and Contemporarily it seems there has always been a change of regimes, Aparthied was merely a culture surrounding such regimes, Some people favoured Indian business class, for stake to resources and power, and changing the anthem on such grounds would give fuel to the pseudo nationalist bug, which inspires racism, abuse and harrasment. After all Mughal, British India were also India, and we were the people, lol. We still follow the british customs, the british system of education, imperial brands and what not, how can we seperate that piece from History, if Akbar can be On equal status with the Great lord, why not elisabeth? And why do we still hover around the independance-colonial hangover? >My accounts may be based on a few accounts, and with a bit of apparently faded memory. So members,Please contri.... > > > >Regards, >Subhrodip > > > >  > > > >________________________________ >From: Pawan Durani >To: reader-list >Sent: Thursday, 2 July, 2009 5:52:27 PM >Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? > > >Dear Readers , > >Many years back I had read that "Jana Gana Mana" or national anthem >was written in praise of King & Queen Of England. There were quite a >few justification about it written like the name of states were only >those which were under English control etc etc. > >If someone has good knowledge about this 'controversy' , I would love to know . > >How true is it ? > >Regards > >Pawan > >Maybe dear friend Shuddha may write a note on this. >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: > > >     Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 11:25:02 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:25:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? In-Reply-To: <771609.59241.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70907020522n5eca8f91pbc5ada5e07fc4544@mail.gmail.com> <160361.37043.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <85a3156a0907022108l5625f89di1f61fad5ffa0b49a@mail.gmail.com> <771609.59241.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907022255r7300c1d2v36bf5a96226e729f@mail.gmail.com> <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> Is this not a reason enough that our National Anthem was written and sung in praise of King & Queen of England ? Regards Pawan On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > > > Sorry Thanks Ms sen, > It's George V not liza. > > > ________________________________ > From: Jhuma Sen > To: subhrodip sengupta > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Sent: Friday, 3 July, 2009 9:38:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? > > I had read this article some time back when the controversy started gathering itself around the national anthem. A part of it is produced below. > "The mythology surrounds the 1911 visit to India by King George V. To commemorate the occasion, the Indian National Congress (INC) approached Tagore for a poem of welcome. As Yeats (his Irish admirer of many years) recalled later, Tagore was deeply troubled by the assignment. Early one morning, he composed a very beautiful poem and handed it over to his colleagues. He suggested that it was a poem addressed to God, and that they should give it to the Congress people. At the Calcutta Congress session which began on December 16, 1911, the second day was apparently devoted entirely to welcoming King George V. Jana Gana Mana was sung on this occasion. Thereafter, the newspaper reports maintained that it was sung as a salute to the King Emperor (George V). Since Tagore did not immediately refute the allegation, the perception spread that the song was a eulogy to the monarchy. > > ....................................................................... > > > In Tagore's collected works, it is mentioned that the INC requested that Tagore write a felicitation to the King Emperor as an appeasement gesture to the British monarchy in response to the annulment of the Bengal Partition Act. Not only was Tagore troubled by the request, he was downright offended by it. It is said that Jana Gana Mana was written more out of protest and rebellion than adoration towards the monarchy. An objective reading of the song should make it eminently clear as to whom the poet decided to offer his worship. In a letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata of India who has from age after age held steadfast >  the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense." > > (http://homepages.udayton.edu/~chattemr/janaganamana.html) > > > Regards > > Jhuma > > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > > Dear Pawan, >>Yup some bengali scholar showed some letters to show that it was an appeasement in pro quo to knighthood. on some officer's request. The letters were shown but alas are neither available, nor anybody bothered to match the handwritings, tagore used a typical cursive. However, since the scholar was a bramhin,  and most of them who suported this view, years after tagores death were also bramhins, some people suggested it was another attack to outcaste the Bramho's a british- aided organisation. My take is thus, so many years after tagores death, we research on him . Good. But we do not provide funds for educating and enhancing many more contemporary poets, exept his variety, his writings are greatly inspired from west. There were many morderns who couldnt get recognision in lifetime true. but this master piece which would be bad to suggest tagore thought India lacked oneness or one leader would imply the >>A. Identity politics Gandhi and tagore giving each other names, >>B . The desire of Rule, ONe big India, Siasat, the impermissibility of independance, later on. Jinnah had to be given his fair stake so that Nehru could be PM, under identity system. >>C. My knowledge of History is really weak, but in 1940's when the first charkha bearing congress flag was flown, tagore was not in list. Most probably the partition scenario and disparity in though which prompted to select this song, reminds us of father of nation, Nehru and others. Their right to fame, I guess. >>Remember RGV's RANN.   We should seriously consider skipping the Sind word, in India I believe. And With Indian Navy bearing British symboll for long, well this tradition is also imbibed from them, and Contemporarily it seems there has always been a change of regimes, Aparthied was merely a culture surrounding such regimes, Some people favoured Indian business class, for stake to resources and power, and changing the anthem on such grounds would give fuel to the pseudo nationalist bug, which inspires racism, abuse and harrasment. After all Mughal, British India were also India, and we were the people, lol. We still follow the british customs, the british system of education, imperial brands and what not, how can we seperate that piece from History, if Akbar can be On equal status with the Great lord, why not elisabeth? And why do we still hover around the independance-colonial hangover? >>My accounts may be based on a few accounts, and with a bit of apparently faded memory. So members,Please contri.... >> >> >> >>Regards, >>Subhrodip >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: Pawan Durani >>To: reader-list >>Sent: Thursday, 2 July, 2009 5:52:27 PM >>Subject: [Reader-list] National Anthem - In whose praise ? >> >> >>Dear Readers , >> >>Many years back I had read that "Jana Gana Mana" or national anthem >>was written in praise of King & Queen Of England. There were quite a >>few justification about it written like the name of states were only >>those which were under English control etc etc. >> >>If someone has good knowledge about this 'controversy' , I would love to know . >> >>How true is it ? >> >>Regards >> >>Pawan >> >>Maybe dear friend Shuddha may write a note on this. >>_________________________________________ >>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>Critiques & Collaborations >>To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>List archive: >> >> >>     Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> >>_________________________________________ >>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>Critiques & Collaborations >>To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>List archive: > > > >      Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 11:56:12 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:56:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thoughts on disability and respectful language In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/thoughts-on-disability-and-respectful-languag Excerpts from Amanda's post: Before we go any further, you guys are going to need a quick tutorial on *models of disability*. That said, I’d like to take a moment to establish a point regarding respectful language. When at all possible, I prefer to use the term “condition” rather than words like illness, disease, disorder — which require the assumption that something is *wrong* with the person. The word “condition” has a more-or-less neutral connotation, in my experience, which allows me to describe the *condition* (see what I did there?) of a person’s body and/or mind without loading them down with all the detritus attached to the medical model, which assumes *deviance* over *variance*. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 12:00:55 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:00:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, "HERE IS WHY" -- Kindly explain why reply to this mail is marked with the aforementioned tagline. Do you think that children from Meghalaya have sub-national feeling towards India, that's why RSS is right in what it is doing? In case you mean this, let me apprise you dear aditya that ISI reportedly has clandestine links also in Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and even Kerela and in Bihar too. That doesnt mean you get these kids to follow RSS dictum of learning. It is unfortunate with so many organisations working in the north east, this one camp by RSS gets highlighted. Interestingly, this would also help a lot of people, activists in RSS to understand what is followed in Meghalaya: matriarchy. I just hope that a real exchange of ideas are between the students and those who run these camps. if it is a project for political re education of these children, then it is deplorable. Meanwhile, PULF is a minnow as compared to other outfits operating in that region. ISI for years have been giving overt and covert support to the extremists here. Several ISI operatives have been arrested by Assam Police, Army Intelligence and CRPF since the 1990s. several isi operatives have been also arrested in UP too. god knows what they were doing. I have a suggestion for you: kindly do your homework before posting stuff on this. i think you dont know anything about the conflict in North East India. with regards anupam On 7/3/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Aditya jee > > I would be glad to know the intentions and the views you wish to express > through this bit of news you have posted on the forum. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 12:31:47 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:31:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all My problem with the RSS is what Nandy says repeatedly, that RSS actually requires a symbol of hate to exist, which in India is Muslim and Pakistan mainly, and now also includes Christians (particularly conversions). They adore interestingly values or idea from their 'sworn enemies',like the habit of Muslims to congregate when a few or even a single one of them is involved in a dispute (generally with a member of some other religion or group), or the ability of some of the brilliant organizations involved in proselytization, to convert tribals to Christianity. They want to be like them in these aspects, and hence to defeat the enemy, they want to use the same tactics as the 'enemy' does. In other words, the RSS is like the ISI when it comes to taking actions against their 'enemies'. But the fact is that then I am like the enemy myself. The question which then comes is simply this: why should the RSS be right and the ISI be wrong? Can't the reverse be true? Can't both be wrong? Can't both be right? On what basis do we judge the right and the wrong? It's ironic, but when Gandhi decided to lead the Satyagraha movement, he realized that fighting through violent methods would mean that Indians would have accepted the moral supremacy of the British by fighting through the very methods which the British wanted them to. It would have been far easier to suppress a violent agitation or attack by more violent methods, whereas a movement like 'satyagraha' where the agitators would never fight back, would attack the very conscience of the British and make them ashamed in their own eyes, even if their response to it was still violent. Moreover, tired of the guilt feelings they would have for their own atrocities, as well as of the consistent struggles mounted against them, they would leave. Gandhi through this way, not only contributed to the Indian freedom struggle, but as I remember back, (as Arnold Toynbee said), he also contributed to the British, by first of all defeating the very system without accepting its moral supremacy, and more importantly ensuring that his method was such that when the British left, there was no enemity or hard feelings left between India and British. Otherwise the relations would have been strained for so long, for the British rule had impoverished India and broken its back on many fronts. What kind of contribution does the RSS wish to make to the nation instead? The RSS may say that it's saving culture and it's a non-political organization, but when more than one person is made to sit in a class and made to undertake an activity which is propagated as 'saving culture', it is politics. And the RSS can't deny that. And if the ISI also does it (as has been suspected), then that too is politics. And both have already accepted the moral supremacy of each other's method, the method of madness, of violence, of suppressing all dissent voices in the name of protecting one's culture. The dislike (not hatred), I have for the RSS stems from the fact that they are trying to replicate a European-style movement of nationalism, secularism and religion (Hindutva) in India, where all dissent and diversity is rejected or modified (to a palatable form), where every decision has to be bound by their ideology, and where every kind of debate and discussion accepts the moral superiority of their ideology. They have no faith in the conscience and the ability of human beings, to improve and change. And of course, they have no faith in non-violence. Otherwise, even for a movement like Ram Mandir construction one, there would have been no demolition and only peaceful protests. And of course, in this they have the support from the ISI and the like. Giving alms for mandir or masjid construction or doing social service is not going to help, what helps is realizing the mistakes of one's own ideology and the actions done to serve that. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 12:34:49 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:34:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, it is fully understandable to all of us, that some on reader list have limited exposure to RSS, have still limited knowledge about RSS and its works for the society, it is also expected that being secular, fervent defenders of all faiths, they have to ridicule, demonise RSS, but the very same persons have no reply for the missionary schools run in tribal areas where children are welcomed by putting a bible in their hand, rosary on their neck along with "education" they get, also these have no objections whatsoever for the clergies who run madrasas with charity funds of terror based organisations, in tribal, other areas with fundamentalism being the main theory in practise. RSS does not teach hate for other faiths, but teaches to respect our traditional sanathana dharma, duties in society. A few bad eggs do not make the organisation fanatic, RSS does not hate muslims or christians as has been propagated by vested interested in hindu "seculars" but imbibes tolerence to all paths of life, at the same time showing the hindu way of life which has been followed for thousands of years compared to few centuries of abtahamic paths of islam, christianity, in fact, christianity as originated in the deserts of middle east was hijacked by romans to Rome, pagans were converted by crusades by these romans, where as christ as messenger of God preached love, these crusades injected violence, death and barabaric way of conversion in christianity. Democratic life in free India, gives right to each of us to deride , condemn and ridicule each other on our perceptions, some use it against RSS, some for other issues, but this trend is neither good for sensible debate, as thehelka, known for sensationalism any news is mercenary of news business., under the guise of media. Regards,Rajen. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:00 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > "HERE IS WHY" -- Kindly explain why reply to this mail is marked with the > aforementioned tagline. Do you think that children from Meghalaya have > sub-national feeling towards India, that's why RSS is right in what it is > doing? > > In case you mean this, let me apprise you dear aditya that ISI reportedly > has clandestine links also in Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and even Kerela and in > Bihar too. That doesnt mean you get these kids to follow RSS dictum of > learning. It is unfortunate with so many organisations working in the north > east, this one camp by RSS gets highlighted. Interestingly, this would also > help a lot of people, activists in RSS to understand what is followed in > Meghalaya: matriarchy. I just hope that a real exchange of ideas are > between > the students and those who run these camps. if it is a project for > political > re education of these children, then it is deplorable. > > Meanwhile, PULF is a minnow as compared to other outfits operating in that > region. ISI for years have been giving overt and covert support to the > extremists here. Several ISI operatives have been arrested by Assam Police, > Army Intelligence and CRPF since the 1990s. several isi operatives have > been > also arrested in UP too. god knows what they were doing. > > I have a suggestion for you: kindly do your homework before posting stuff > on > this. i think you dont know anything about the conflict in North East > India. > > > with regards > anupam > > On 7/3/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > Dear Aditya jee > > > > I would be glad to know the intentions and the views you wish to express > > through this bit of news you have posted on the forum. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 12:46:25 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:46:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907030016h60b82b6k94e62804a4599dc9@mail.gmail.com> RSS was found to have constructed temples in arunachal pradesh along with their allied groups in several places around Itanagar in Arunachal Pradesh. however, the tribes have been consistently threatened by the presence of these super organised religions...be it the christian or hindus. so hows is RSS different from Christian faiths? in the grassroots, they all operate similarly through indoctrination. On 7/3/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear All, > > it is fully understandable to all of us, that some on reader list have > limited exposure to RSS, have still limited knowledge about RSS and its > works for the society, it is also expected that being secular, fervent > defenders of all faiths, they have to ridicule, demonise RSS, but the very > same persons have no reply for the missionary schools run in tribal areas > where children are welcomed by putting a bible in their hand, rosary on > their neck along with "education" they get, also these have no objections > whatsoever for the clergies who run madrasas with charity funds of terror > based organisations, in tribal, other areas with fundamentalism being the > main theory in practise. > > RSS does not teach hate for other faiths, but teaches to respect our > traditional sanathana dharma, duties in society. A few bad eggs do not make > the organisation fanatic, RSS does not hate muslims or christians as has > been propagated by vested interested in hindu "seculars" but imbibes > tolerence to all paths of life, at the same time showing the hindu way of > life which has been followed for thousands of years compared to few > centuries of abtahamic paths of islam, christianity, in fact, christianity > as originated in the deserts of middle east was hijacked by romans to Rome, > pagans were converted by crusades by these romans, where as christ as > messenger of God preached love, these crusades injected violence, death and > barabaric way of conversion in christianity. Democratic life in free India, > gives right to each of us to deride , condemn and ridicule each other on our > perceptions, some use it against RSS, some for other issues, but this trend > is neither good for sensible debate, as thehelka, known for sensationalism > any news is mercenary of news business., under the guise of media. > > Regards,Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:00 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> "HERE IS WHY" -- Kindly explain why reply to this mail is marked with the >> aforementioned tagline. Do you think that children from Meghalaya have >> sub-national feeling towards India, that's why RSS is right in what it is >> doing? >> >> In case you mean this, let me apprise you dear aditya that ISI reportedly >> has clandestine links also in Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and even Kerela and in >> Bihar too. That doesnt mean you get these kids to follow RSS dictum of >> learning. It is unfortunate with so many organisations working in the >> north >> east, this one camp by RSS gets highlighted. Interestingly, this would >> also >> help a lot of people, activists in RSS to understand what is followed in >> Meghalaya: matriarchy. I just hope that a real exchange of ideas are >> between >> the students and those who run these camps. if it is a project for >> political >> re education of these children, then it is deplorable. >> >> Meanwhile, PULF is a minnow as compared to other outfits operating in that >> region. ISI for years have been giving overt and covert support to the >> extremists here. Several ISI operatives have been arrested by Assam >> Police, >> Army Intelligence and CRPF since the 1990s. several isi operatives have >> been >> also arrested in UP too. god knows what they were doing. >> >> I have a suggestion for you: kindly do your homework before posting stuff >> on >> this. i think you dont know anything about the conflict in North East >> India. >> >> >> with regards >> anupam >> >> On 7/3/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> > Dear Aditya jee >> > >> > I would be glad to know the intentions and the views you wish to express >> > through this bit of news you have posted on the forum. >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Rakesh >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > > From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 12:53:20 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:53:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030023y609b09f4s4b7941d773289d05@mail.gmail.com> "In other words, the RSS is like the ISI when it comes to taking actions against their 'enemies'. But the fact is that then I am like the enemy myself. The question which then comes is simply this: why should the RSS be right and the ISI be wrong? Can't the reverse be true? Can't both be wrong? Can't both be right? On what basis do we judge the right and the wrong?" Dear all, this one paragraph in the post by our learned friend shows the level of half knowledge which is dangerous, when he compares ISI and RSS, for any person with common sense, the knowledge of ISI is that this is inter service intelligence network, spying for its army, espionage being supported by typical nation funding for safety of that nation, in other words, ISI is funded by Pakistan as its agency of espionage for pakistan. ASI has no role in societal educational aspects, societal development works, or any works or actions for the good of the society. RSS is rastrya swayam sevak sangh, where one volanteers to work as directed in efforts, to serve the society, in development of society, with self discipline.It is funded by its members volateerly, for the develpmenal works like schools, vocation and skill training centres. To compare RSS with ISI is at best an effort to be exhibiting half knowledge about an organisation which has served the nation in time of need., be it a cyclone, be it an intrusion of pak army in kashmir in 1947, or as traffic organisers during chinese aggression in 1962, or as cleaners of dead bodies after the cyclone that hit india in Andhra. All these deeds are known to society, may not be the Y generation, which is busy with rights more than their duties. Regards, Rajen. Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > My problem with the RSS is what Nandy says repeatedly, that RSS actually > requires a symbol of hate to exist, which in India is Muslim and Pakistan > mainly, and now also includes Christians (particularly conversions). They > adore interestingly values or idea from their 'sworn enemies',like the > habit > of Muslims to congregate when a few or even a single one of them is > involved > in a dispute (generally with a member of some other religion or group), or > the ability of some of the brilliant organizations involved in > proselytization, to convert tribals to Christianity. They want to be like > them in these aspects, and hence to defeat the enemy, they want to use the > same tactics as the 'enemy' does. > > In other words, the RSS is like the ISI when it comes to taking actions > against their 'enemies'. But the fact is that then I am like the enemy > myself. The question which then comes is simply this: why should the RSS be > right and the ISI be wrong? Can't the reverse be true? Can't both be wrong? > Can't both be right? On what basis do we judge the right and the wrong? > > It's ironic, but when Gandhi decided to lead the Satyagraha movement, he > realized that fighting through violent methods would mean that Indians > would > have accepted the moral supremacy of the British by fighting through the > very methods which the British wanted them to. It would have been far > easier > to suppress a violent agitation or attack by more violent methods, whereas > a > movement like 'satyagraha' where the agitators would never fight back, > would > attack the very conscience of the British and make them ashamed in their > own > eyes, even if their response to it was still violent. Moreover, tired of > the > guilt feelings they would have for their own atrocities, as well as of the > consistent struggles mounted against them, they would leave. > > Gandhi through this way, not only contributed to the Indian freedom > struggle, but as I remember back, (as Arnold Toynbee said), he also > contributed to the British, by first of all defeating the very system > without accepting its moral supremacy, and more importantly ensuring that > his method was such that when the British left, there was no enemity or > hard > feelings left between India and British. Otherwise the relations would have > been strained for so long, for the British rule had impoverished India and > broken its back on many fronts. > > What kind of contribution does the RSS wish to make to the nation instead? > The RSS may say that it's saving culture and it's a non-political > organization, but when more than one person is made to sit in a class and > made to undertake an activity which is propagated as 'saving culture', it > is > politics. And the RSS can't deny that. And if the ISI also does it (as has > been suspected), then that too is politics. And both have already accepted > the moral supremacy of each other's method, the method of madness, of > violence, of suppressing all dissent voices in the name of protecting one's > culture. > > The dislike (not hatred), I have for the RSS stems from the fact that they > are trying to replicate a European-style movement of nationalism, > secularism > and religion (Hindutva) in India, where all dissent and diversity is > rejected or modified (to a palatable form), where every decision has to be > bound by their ideology, and where every kind of debate and discussion > accepts the moral superiority of their ideology. They have no faith in the > conscience and the ability of human beings, to improve and change. And of > course, they have no faith in non-violence. Otherwise, even for a movement > like Ram Mandir construction one, there would have been no demolition and > only peaceful protests. > > And of course, in this they have the support from the ISI and the like. > > Giving alms for mandir or masjid construction or doing social service is > not > going to help, what helps is realizing the mistakes of one's own ideology > and the actions done to serve that. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 13:15:02 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:15:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee Let me answer your arguments in points: 1) First of all, I am tired of this secularism. I don't want any secularism at all. It's a western ideological concept, which has been adopted in India by twisting it on Nehruvian ideas, as I see it. Since the acceptance of India being a secular country in the Preamble of the Indian Constitution, we have had many more riots than before. The Indian state has by and large either abetted these acts or failed from discharging its responsibilities in these cases. And here I mean to say all the three organs of the state have failed to some or the other extent in this. The fact of the matter is that secularism is actually becoming a justification for the violence, especially that directed against the minorities. Look at the RSS. Isn't the RSS secular? Of course it is. It is secular because it doesn't want a diversified version of Hinduism to exist in this nation, at least not in the form it exists. You talk about tribals. There are tribals in this country who eat meat, and those who drink as well. Among these tribal communities, women also drink along with men. But the RSS would have none of it, because it's against 'culture'. Even if the diversities do exist, the RSS has decided to make these palatable, and thereby ensuring that all of us are just mere clones: modern outlook-based, secular in thought and expression, and nationalistic. This is exactly what is not required. This is also what Hinduism is not about. The RSS is an organization which supports the demand for a Uniform Civil Code. Isn't it so? Why? Because the RSS is indeed secular, going by the European definiton of the term. Yes, it doesn't want the state to involve itself in religious affairs. This is why it wants the Govt. to scrap Haj subsidies. Which is why the VHP led goons were justifying the 2002 post-Godhra pogrom by stating that Muslims are always appeased, and of course any kind of appeasement is against secularism, right Rajen jee? So, the problem is of secularism itself. The day secularism is out of Indian politics, the RSS would be holding meetings to find out what next to attack, because one armour in their weaponry would be now a waste. This is why like you, I myself am hoping for a death of secularism. And I don't feel India is a secular country. 2) Christian or Hindu, tribals are being oppressed from all quarters. To add to this, we now have Naxalites who are also looking for a foothold among the tribals. And of course, the Indian state is not too far to join it. First, it was the Christian organizations who decided to proselytize with the aim of 'harvesting the souls of Christ'. Then came the RSS, which wanted to ensure their ideological domination, and therefore in the name of secularism, started to question 'conversions' and indulged in conversion programmes of their own. They organized the 'ghar wapasi' programmes. But when the tribals were never Hindus in the first place, isn't this conversion of Hindus? And ironically, our Indian state never bothered to query as to whether the tribals thought themselves to be Hindus or not. So also the RSS or their sister organizations. Our Naxalite brothers, then entered the fray in the name of fighting for the tribals. Of course, now it has converted into a goonda movement where the top commanders get rich and the people at the bottom get certain appeased rights, and those who oppressed earlier or considered the agents of the rich pay. And then, we have the Indian state which enters the fray through police (fake encounters), and Salwa Judum (and of course arrests like Binayak Sen for which no condemnation can be enough) 3) Since you talk about my half knowledge level Sir, I agree I don't have that great knowledge as you have. But you should also know that after the Kashmir earthquake a few years ago (which affected both sides of Kashmir, Indian and Pakistani), there were numerous reports of how the jihadi organizations on POK (as reported in the Indian side) were involved in relief and rehabilitation of those who died, providing them tents and shelters as well as food, clothing, medicines and other help if required. And the ISI was accused of helping them through men and material. So if ISI can do such things, or coordinate in such activities, and if Pakistanis therefore consider it right on their part to indulge in activities like organizing bomb blasts across the nation, would it be fair on their part to do so? Infact, if I may say so, the ISI is less dangerous than the RSS. The ISI is not a danger for Pakistan (the nation it works for)necessarily, as it's primarily an espionage agency which acts outside Pakistan. The RSS is a greater danger for our own country (the nation it supposedly works for) itself because a foreign based ideology having no benefits is being sought to be imposed on our own people, without a proper debate and discussion on it. People are being misled in the name of Hindutva, and the very existence of India as a free and fair democracy is being misused by asking people to be nationalistic. Also, my comparison is between ISI and RSS on an ideological scale and also on the kind of actions they are indulging in, with respect to 'educating children'. By the way, the Army also does great amount of social service work during times of distress, but that does not mean that the Army is given the right to go around doing anything, going against the norms of democracy and rights of people, in the name of AFSPA or other powers to protect the nation? This is why furore takes place when any person in uniform is heard or accused of raping a woman or taking part in a fake encounter. 4) The RSS has the Bajrang Dal and the VHP to do the dirty work, which is to take the fight against the minorities. Howsoever much you claim to be otherwise, people on this forum are wise enough to know the links between the VHP and the Bajrang Dal. And the acts of these organizations are too well known to be hidden. Probably the RSS gets embarassed when these links are exposed, but people know what it is. Waise Rajen jee, try telling that RSS is not linked to the two organizations to anybody who has some knowledge of politics in this nation, and all you will get is a ridicule. Even those from foreign countries who have knowledge of politics in this nation are not going to believe you. My argument goes beyond the RSS acting against the minorities; I personally believe it's an organization whose ideology is a threat to Hinduism, to India, and more importantly, to humanity itself. This is an ideology which threatens to completely override the diversity of the Hindu faith and religion and convert it into a mono-ideological, secular, modern-outlook based religion, which is to completely disrespect the faith of those who are talked of as being 'on the margins'. It is to ensure that Hindu religion becomes similar to Islam and Christianity, which are supposed to have one holy book, and one major place of worship. The RSS is a threat to India because it has misused the right of democracy and freedom of speech and expression, and the right to practise, preach and profess one's views and religion, to spread their ideology which attacks the minorities in direct/subtle manner and of course, to ensure that the ideology spreads that 'the minorities have to live on the goodwill of the majority'. This is against the basic right of democracy. Infact, the RSS should be happy India is a democracy. If it were a dictatorship, under some Nehru-kind of leader, the RSS would not have existed in this country. And of course, all this is a threat to humanity itself, along with the idea of imitating the 'enemy'. Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 13:25:03 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:25:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> I wonder what is happening to this country . How much appeasement should we allow. In todays railways budget one of the soaps announced by Mamta is "Metro concession in Kolkata to minority students". Why should other students be denied ? Has minorty anything to do with real economic issue ? Disgusting "Sickular" politicians.... From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 13:34:51 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:34:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan jee Can you kindly confirm the source of this news? I haven't seen it anywhere in any report of the Railway budget as of now? Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 13:56:57 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:56:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , It is there on CNN IBN website ; in the middle column there is " Raid Budget Highlights" , click on that and you would find it. Pawan On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pawan jee > > Can you kindly confirm the source of this news? I haven't seen it anywhere > in any report of the Railway budget as of now? > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 14:16:23 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:16:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan jee I read the point you stated, and certainly it's a good move of pseudo-secularism. However, I would be very happy to first read the argument as to why such a concession has been introduced only for minority students, from the Railways minister herself, before making any conclusions or pre-judgements. Equally, I feel with your arguments, you are asking for secularism to be actually followed, and I am afraid I don't support that argument, because we have never been secular according to the Western concept for so many years in our civilization, and yet we have lived peacefully. For the move, first we should ask the reasons, and if the reasons are wrong, do criticize the decision making. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 14:20:44 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:20:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I am sorry to pre-judge it myself by calling it an act of pseudo-secularism. I apologize for the same. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 3 14:26:15 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:56:15 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani to Head UIDAI, Gets Cabinet Rank- 135 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907030156v31eea4e2i7f1094796251973c@mail.gmail.com> Congress is acting as if they own the country. Could anyone please ask them under what procedure of public scrutiny was Nilekani allowed to acquire a Cabinet birth. Or is it is the prerogative of ruling dispensation to appoint anyone as they please. Could then a BJP majority govt appoint someone like Mohan Bhagwat at some post on internal security with a cabinet berth? I have tremendous amount of respect for what Nilekani has done for the country as far as of the business of IT is concerned but could this be made into a premise for him to be given a public post, involving public money??? Why is the BJP the so-called 'party 'with a difference' sounding more like a shadow government with shadow ministers and praising the policies of government in power? http://www.indiajournal.com/pages/event.php?id=7555 Nilekani to Head UIDAI, Gets Cabinet Rank Date Submitted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 NEW DELHI - Infosys Technologies’ Co-Chairman Nandan Nilekani was June 25 appointed Chairman of an Authority with Cabinet Minister’s rank to steer the ambitious scheme for creating a multi-purpose unique identification database of citizens. 54-year-old Nilekani, co-founder of the leading IT firm along with N R Narayana Murthy 28 years ago, will head the Unique Identification Database Authority of India (UIDAI) under the aegis of the Planning Commission. He will have the rank and status of the Cabinet Minister, Information and Broadcasting Minister Ambika Soni told reporters after a Cabinet meeting. The scheme is aimed at providing a unique identity to the targeted population of the flagship schemes to ensure that the benefits reach them, she said. A visionary and a thinker, Nilekani, who gets an annual compensation of over $175,000 and whose net worth is $1.3 billion, resigned his membership of Infosys Board of Directors following his appointment. His colleagues in Infosys top management Mohandas Pai and Kris Gopalakrishnan said his exit from Infosys would be a loss to the organization but a gain to the country. Announcing his appointment, the PMO said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has invited Nilekani to chair an authority that will create a unique identification database of the country’s citizens. Nilekani, born in Sirsi in Uttara Kannada in Karnataka, did his early education in Bangalore and Dharwad before moving to Mumbai to study Electrical Engineering in IIT, Bombay. The PMO said the functioning of the authority and activities to be performed by the UIA would serve multiple objectives. The authority shall have the responsibility to lay down plans and policies to implement the unique identification scheme in the country. It shall own and operate the unique identification number database and be responsible for its updation and maintenance on an ongoing basis. Sonia Gandhi said the Authority shall have responsibility to lay down plans and policies to implement the Unique Identification Scheme (UID), shall own and operate the Unique Identification number database and be responsible for its updation and maintenance on an ongoing basis,” Sonia said. The Authority will identify the targeted groups for various flagship programs, she added. The flagship schemes of the UPA include the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme, Sarva Shiksha Abhiyaan, National Rural Health Mission and Bharat Nirman. The unique identification number would ensure that any lacuna in these schemes is removed so that the benefits do not reach those they are not meant for. The Government had earmarked Rs 1,000 Million in the interim Budget presented by Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee in Parliament on February 16 to kickstart its ambitious Unique Identification Project. The government has been working on improving arrangements to ensure that development deliverables reach the intended beneficiaries, Mukherjee had said. In order to do so efficiently, effectively and economically, a comprehensive system of unique identity had been worked out, he had added. The Government also plans to set up state units of UIDAI, headed by state UID Commissioners. (PTI) From ravikant at sarai.net Fri Jul 3 14:43:52 2009 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:43:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ameen Sayani on national anthem -1 Message-ID: <200907031443.53736.ravikant@sarai.net> Dear All Thought this might be of interest in the context of discussions on the national anthem. The legendary 'radio-dost' Amin Sayani shared it with me some time back when I wrote to him thanking him for his Geetmala collection, produced in collaboration with HMV. I have copy-pasted from his attachment, keeping the formatting intact. Apologies for Caps in the original, or any loss of the emphases intended by Mr. Sayani. regards ravikant Ameen Sayani humbly proposes : AN ANTHEM TO CURE THE COMMUNICATIONS CRISIS There came a time, not too long ago, when our newspapers and audio-visual news channels began reaching us each day “soaked in blood”. (The expression is borrowed from a poem by Gulzaar : “Roz subha akhbaar meray ghar, khoon say lathpath aata hai.”) Thankfully, the media rallied round to help us bear the mayhem, by padding the news with glamour and gaiety, sex and scintillation. But what still faithfully filters through is the oppression, hunger and pain of the less privileged, the gradual breaking down of affordable infrastructure and security, the deadly spread of corruption, wastage, crime and ineptitude. The problems are acute, and don’t have any simple answers. But the fact that does emphatically emerge is that all our national “diseases” seem to have one common carrier : MIS-COMMUNICATION. Have you ever given a thought to the confusion that prevails in virtually all the LAWS, CODES, RULES, NOTIFICATIONS, REGULATIONS, POLICY DECLARATIONS and NORMS that surround us in our social, economic, educational, agricultural, electoral, administrative and civic lives? Many of these communications are fairly garbled and misleading, and specifying them would require heaps of books. All that need be said about the all-pervading, mind-boggling confusion is that we can never be sure which straight, fair, honest, legal and moral path we can tread without getting tripped up and punished or cornered into paying a fine or a bribe. You’ll find this kind of problematic communication everywhere – maybe in other countries, too. Communication that says only partly what it means, or means something other than what it says. Communication that is confusing even in its INITIAL FORMATION, and gets progressively incorrigible in TRANSLATION, INTERPRETATION and IMPLEMENTATION. A most dangerous kind of Mis-communication being indulged in these days, comes garbed in pseudo-religious dogma. Instead of dealing with negative events in a civilized manner and hunting for the actual original culprits, self-seeking individuals and mis-led groups excel in whipping up communal tempers – and encouraging rioting and other mis-demeanours that NO religion can ever permit or condone. All this escalates into recurring retaliation in which innocent people are terrorized and slaughtered, and public life grinds to a halt. For years I kept wondering whether there was a way to stimulate a national movement to clean up and clarify our various oceans of befuddling communication – a starting point lofty enough to stir up our patriotism with impetus and impact. And, suddenly, the thought hit me like a thunderbolt : Why not seek the help of the song we have been singing with fervour since the forties – “JANAGANAMANA”, OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM ? Having been born (in 1932) in a family involved with the freedom movement, “JANAGANAMANA” runs in my blood. Not just its first antra – which became our National Anthem – but all its five glorious stanzas. I was taught to sing the song with chest out and head held high – along with “VANDE MAATARAM” (our other official National Song) and all the other great songs of those eventful days, such as “SAARAY JAHAAN SAY ACHHA” and “JHANDA OONCHA RAHAY HAMARA”. But as I crossed into adulthood, I gradually began to realize that our TWO MAIN NATIONAL SONGS were never clearly explained to us – and, even today, few people have any proper knowledge of their precise meaning ! … 2 … Bankim Chandra Chatterji’s VANDE MAATARAM, though having a magnificent patriotic background, and beautifully descriptive words, was totally in Sanskrit – or “Sanskritised Bengali”, as I later learnt – and only a very few of its beautiful words could be understood by any average Indian. There was also an unfortunate controversy attached to it, concerning the “bowing” and “praying” to someone other than God, which perhaps made it awkward for some factions to accept as secular India’s national anthem. (This hint of unsuitability was officially acknowledged even as far back as in 1937, when an Indian National Congress Sub-Committee – consisting of Jawaharlal Nehru, Abul Kalaam Azad, Subhas Chandra Bose and Narendra Dev, in consultation with Tagore – recommended that people may be given “perfect freedom …… to sing any other song of an un-objectionable character in addition to, or in place of, Vande Maataram”.) Actually, even here it was perhaps the communication that had caused the problem. Had the song been rendered into simple Hindustani, and had the full meaning of the Sanskrit song also been clearly explained to all from the very beginning, it may have been accepted without confusion or resentment. Sincere, fair and explicit explanation and mutual adjustment usually smoothens all implementation – unilateral foisting is bound to generate unnecessary opposition. (A similar recent mis-communication has resulted in an excellent yogic exercise, “Surya Namaskar”, being rejected by some factions who saw it as just a religious prayer format !) Tagore’s JANAGANAMANA had many more words one could relate with – especially in the symbolic (and therefore much abridged and incomplete) geographic references in the first antra, and the seven main religions of India (“Hindu, Boudh, Sikh, Jain, Paarsik, Musalmaan, Khristaani”) in the second stanza. Moreover, the lyrics sounded magnificent, and their rhyming and rhythm lent themselves excellently to what is perhaps one of the most inspiring Anthem tunes in the world. But even my favourite Janaganamana wasn’t free of controversy. There was a ridiculous complaint, still often recurring, that our revered Gurudev Rabindranath Tagore had originally sung it in praise of the British Emperor! Tagore had himself rubbished this in no uncertain terms: “I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me capable of such unbounded stupidity!” However, as a lover of Tagore and of my Anthem, I finally decided that it was my own duty to try and understand why the preposterous controversy had arisen, and what events led to the song being finally welcomed as our Anthem. Two questions particularly needed urgent clarification : a)Whom precisely was the poet addressing as “Janaganamana Adhinaayak” (Ruler of Peoples’ Minds/Hearts), “Bhaarata Bhaagya Vidhaata” (Dispenser of India’s Destiny) and “Mangaldaayak” (Giver of Prosperity/Well-being) – for the “Jai” (Victory) of whom the song is sung ? (Believe me, I’ve asked almost a hundred people in various walks of life, and got just vague answers.) b)How could a nation ever expect clarity in its communications – when it had, for over half a century, been singing even its National Anthem without knowing what the song was precisely communicating ? (Vande Maataram has been problematic for another reason – people have often been forced to sing it as proof of their patriotism, without understanding hardly any of its words.) I began discussing the issue with a number of people, and acquired some crucial, relevant publications (listed at the end of this note). And I’m offering to my countrymen – with head bowed – the fascinating facts that I discovered, as a prelude to my daring but long over-due request and invitation : …. 3 …. “LET’S GET TOGETHER AND SEE IF WE COULD – AFTER FULLY UNDERSTANDING THE BACKGROUND AND CONTENT OF “JANAGANAMANA” – ALSO LOOK FOR ANOTHER GREAT SONG IN OUR TRADITIONAL ARCHIVES. A SONG THAT COULD BE MOULDED INTO A TOTALLY COMPREHENDABLE AND ACCEPTABLE NATIONAL ANTHEM – TO REFLECT THE ASPIRATIONS OF ALL INDIANS, AND PROVIDE THE SPRINGBOARD FROM WHICH TO BEGIN CURING THE NATION’S COMMUNICATIONS CRISIS.” Firstly, let’s take a brief look at the history behind our National Anthem: A.WHEN TAGORE WROTE “JANAGANAMANA”, AT LEAST 37 YEARS BEFORE INDEPENDENCE, HE NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE A NATIONAL SONG. It was first published under the sub-title “Brahmo Sangeet” (Divine Music/Songs), and later included in Tagore’s collection of religious hymns, entitled “Dharma Sangeet”. So it was obviously a hymn to GOD, and the “Jai Hey” refrain was sung to the VICTORY (or GLORY) of GOD who was the “Dispenser of India’s Destiny” – not directly to the Victory (or Glory) of India itself. B. THE “ORIGINALLY SUNG FOR THE BRITISH EMPEROR” CONFUSION AROSE BECAUSE SOME NEWSPAPERS HAD MIS-REPORTED THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE 28TH SESSION OF THE CONGRESS IN 1911. There were two songs sung at the session : a PATRIOTIC HYMN (“Janaganamana”) and a SONG OF WELCOME TO GEORGE V. Some newspapers confused one for the other (probably because some of the epithets of God included in the song may have been confused as referring to the British Emperor !), and “Janaganamana” was unfairly maligned. Many attempts were made thereafter to correct the mistake – but the clarification was obviously not recorded strongly enough to become perpetually remembered history. C.THE HIGH-POWERED 1937 CONGRESS SUB-COMMITTEE FOR FINALISING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM (referred to earlier in this note) HAD ALSO BEEN GIVEN THE MANDATE THAT : “ONLY SUCH SONGS AS ARE COMPOSED IN SIMPLE HINDUSTANI, OR CAN BE ADAPTED TO IT……. SHOULD BE ACCEPTED BY THE SUB-COMMITTEE FOR EXAMINATION.” Allama Muhammad Iqbal’s “Saaray Jahaan Say Achha” had been in existence for over 20 years then, and was already one of India’s most beloved national songs. I could not find any record of whether the Committee had examined its feasibility as our Anthem. Perhaps its language – with many Persian-Arabic words – was not considered “Hindustani” enough, and it therefore couldn’t overtake the Sanskrit-Bengali “Janaganamana” and “Vande Maataram.” (Two more truly “Hindustani” songs did appear a little later in the pre-Independence days. Both of them, and “Saaray Jahaan Say Achha”, are discussed later in this note.) D.EVEN WHEN NEHRU MET TAGORE IN SHANTINIKETAN IN 1939 (two years before the latter’s death) AND REQUESTED HIM TO WRITE INDIA’S ANTHEM, “JANAGANAMANA” WAS NOT CONSIDERED FOR THE ROLE. Was it the earlier unfair “sung for the British Emperor” controversy that was worrying both of them ? No one can really tell – but it is recorded that Tagore had, for a “maaghotsav” function, once changed some of the epithets used in his song, such as inserting “Maanav Bhaagya Vidhaata” (Dispenser of Humanity’s Destiny) instead of “Bhaarat Bhaagya Vidhaata”. ...continued in the next post From ravikant at sarai.net Fri Jul 3 14:44:19 2009 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:44:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ameen Sayani on national anthem -2 Message-ID: <200907031444.20692.ravikant@sarai.net> … 4 ... E. AN URGENT NEED FOR AN OFFICIAL ANTHEM WAS FELT WHEN THE INDIAN DELEGATION WAS TO ATTEND THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN NEW YORK IN 1947. THE DELEGATION FORTUNATELY HAD A RECORDED RENDERING OF “JANAGANAMANA”, WHICH WAS HANDED OVER FOR ORCHESTRATION. THE TUNE AND THE ORCHESTRAL ARRANGEMENT WERE IMMENSELY LIKED BY ALL. That was Janaganamana’s first official step towards being finalized as our Anthem – and its selection was primarily because of the highly impressive and “singable” TUNE. F.ON JANUARY 24, 1950, THE CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY FORMALLY ADOPTED JANAGANAMANA AS INDIA’S NATIONAL ANTHEM, “SUBJECT TO SUCH ALTERATIONS IN THE WORDS AS THE GOVERNMENT MAY AUTHORISE AS OCCASION ARISES.” Has that occasion not already arisen ? Isn’t the state of India again causing us the same anxiety that Tagore had sensed in 1939 about “the future of the millions who, with all their peaceful traditions, are being subjected to hunger, disease, exploitations foreign and indigenous, and the seething discontents of communalism”? (Add to this Pope Benedict’s recent X’mas message for the whole world : “It is shameful that, in this age of plenty and unbridled consumerism, people continue to die of hunger and thirst, disease and poverty”.) BUT, EVEN WITH ALL THESE FACTS TO STRENGTHEN OUR SPIRITS, WE MUST MOVE WITH UTMOST CAUTION IN OUR SEARCH FOR A NEW ANTHEM. OUR MOST IMPORTANT TASK IS TO CLARIFY THE PARAMETERS : 1.“Janaganamana” has ruled our hearts for over 60 years, and the first tribute we must pay to Tagore’s great, multi-faceted creative genius is to RETAIN ITS MAGNIFICIENT TUNE AND RHYTHM. 2.The song or poem that we choose as the basis of another Anthem need not be a prayer, nor contain any symbolic geographic descriptions. Neither need it be a song that claims that “India is the best in the world” – which it definitely isn’t at the moment. IT SHOULD BE A SONG THAT POINTS TO THE NORMS THAT INDIA SHOULD ACHIEVE IN ORDER TO BECOME GREAT, STRONG AND PROGRESSIVE. 3.If possible, THE GERMS OF THE NEW ANTHEM SHOULD BE SOUGHT IN A POEM OR SONG THAT TAGORE HAD HIMSELF PENNED (in Bengali or in English), AND TO THAT COULD BE ADDED THE MAIN INSPIRING ELEMENTS TAKEN FROM ALL OUR VENERATED NATIONAL SONGS. 4.All these elevating elements could then be handed over to a set of eminent Hindi-Urdu poets and lyricists, TO FIT INTO THE JANAGANAMANA TUNE AND RHYTHM AND MOULD INTO A DYNAMIC, PURPOSEFUL, STIRRING ANTHEM IN SIMPLE HINDUSTANI THAT ALL INDIANS COULD UNDERSTAND, ACCEPT AND BE INSPIRED BY. 5.And once such an Anthem is ready, and approved by all sections of the nation, IT MUST THEN ALSO BE TRANSLATED/ADAPTED – LINE TO LINE, AND IN THE …. 5 …. “JANAGANAMANA” TUNE AND METRE – INTO ALL THE STATE LANGUAGES OF INDIA. This will not only be a form of salute to all our state languages, but will also further encourage those states to affectionately accept the National Language as a worthy “elder sister”. BUT IS THERE SUCH AN IDEAL POEM OR SONG THAT COULD FORM THE HONOURABLE BASE FOR A NEW ANTHEM ? LET’S BEGIN THE HUNT : A.There is already a song in Hindustani, set to the Janaganamana tune. When Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose’s dynamic Azad Hind Fauj (Indian National Army) selected Janaganamana as its Anthem, Bose had a Hindustani rendering done, because he rightly felt that Hind’s Anthem should be in Hindi, and easily understood by everyone all over India. The opening words were: “Shubh Sukh Chain Ki Varsha Barsay”. The only time I had heard the rendering was as a schoolboy in 1945, and I finally received the words only recently from none other than INA’s legendary Captain Lakshmi (currently convalescing in Kanpur) through her daughter Subhashini ! Here is the full song in three antras: Shubh sukh chain ki varsha barsay, Bhaarat bhaagya hai jaaga! Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, Maratha, Draavid, Utkal, Banga – Chanchal saagar, Vindhya, Himalay, neela Yamuna Ganga – Teray nit gun gaayen, tujhsay jeevan paayen, Sab jan paayen aasha ! Sooraj ban kar jag mein chamkay, Bhaarat naam subhaaga ! Jai ho, jai ho, jai ho – Jai-jai-jai-jai-ho !! Sab kay dil mein preet basaaye teri meethi baani – Har soobay kay rehnay waalay, har mazhab kay praani – Sab bhayd aur farq mitaakay, sab goad mein teri aakay, Goondhein prem ki maala! Sooraj ban kar jag mein chamkay, Bhaarat naam subhaaga ! Jai ho, jai ho, jai ho – Jai-jai-jai-jai-ho !! Subah saberay pankh pakheru teray hi gun gaayen – Baas bhari bharpoor hawaayen jeevan mein ritu laayen – Sab milkar Hind pukaaray, “Jai Aazaad Hind” kay naaray, Pyaara desh hamaara ! Sooraj ban kar jag mein chamkay, Bhaarat naam subhaaga ! Jai ho, jai ho, jai ho – Jai-jai-jai-jai-ho !! The song was a great hit, not only with the INA but with all who heard it. It is undoubtedly beautifully written, and – while adhering broadly to the content of Janaganamana – has been gracefully turned from a hymn into a pure national song, especially in the second stanza. However, its weak points are that its Hindi-Urdu blend is not entirely smooth, and the opening half-line seems a bit lukewarm. However, I leave it to the group of poets who may be formed to tackle the issue. …. 6 …. B.“Saaray Jahaan Say Achha” has generally been considered a worthy alternative – but it already has its own, well-recognised place in history as one of our major National Songs, next to “Vande Maataram”. It also has a superb tune (I refer to the tune given by Pundit Ravi Shanker through the Indian Peoples Theatre Association). While many of its Persian-Arabic words are not easily understandable – like “Ghurbat”, “Humsaaya”, “Paasbaan”, “Rashk-e-Jinaan”, “Aab-e-Rood”, “Daur-e-Zamaan”, “Mehram”, “Dard-e-nihaan”, etc – the song nevertheless has one couplet that gives India its greatest message of integration : “Mazhab naheen sikhaata aapas mein bair rakhna – Hindi hain ham, watan hai Hindositaan hamara!” But in spite of its deep-routed national identity and appeal, there are four aspects which, I feel, inhibit it from matching the stature of “Janaganamana” : i)As I’ve already mentioned, its “India is the world’s best country” stance is neither factually correct nor greatly inspiring. (For the same reason, D.L. Roy’s delightful Bengali song “Dhana Dhaanya Pushpe Bhara” – with the refrain “Shakul Desher Raani Sheje Aamaar Janmabhoomi” – may not make it the right choice.) ii) Because of the metre of the poem, Iqbal had turned “Hindustaan” (the fourth most popular name of our country) into “HINDO-SITAAN” – which, I feel, somewhat dilutes its impact. iii) Like Janaganamana’s first stanza, this song too has general geographic and symbolic terms which somehow do not reflect the inspiring aspirations that we are looking for in our new Anthem. iv) It also has some rather unclear allusions, which unfortunately diffuse the impact of the song. Besides, Iqbal must have gained some unpopularity among nationalists, since it seems he had later become a protagonist of the division of India. C.Another worthy “Hindustani” contender for the role of an Anthem is the song no one seems to be singing any more: “Jhandaa Ooncha Rahay Hamaara”. I feel it has as much positive impact as “Saaray Jahaan Say Achha”, but it too has its own unique place in our history of freedom and cannot now overtake “Janaganamana”. D.BUT YES, THERE IS A POEM THAT COULD FORM A LOFTY AND ACCEPTABLE BASE FOR A NEW ANTHEM THAT COULD STAND WITH HONOUR ALONG WITH “JANAGANAMANA” AND “VANDE MAATARAM”. IT IS A POEM THAT TAGORE HAD HIMSELF WRITTEN, THE BENGALI VERSION OF WHICH BEGAN WITH THE WORDS : “CHITT JETHA BHAYSHOONYA- UCHCH JETHA SHIR.” And if that doesn’t ring a memorable bell in the minds of non-Bengalis, here’s the fabulously moving text of Tagore’s own English rendering – each line an inspirational masterpiece : …..7 …. 7 …. “Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high; Where knowledge is free; Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls; Where words come out from the depth of truth; Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection; Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit; Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever widening thought and action – Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake!” Such were the lofty concepts and mighty aspirations of Tagore for his motherland. Guru Rabindranath Tagore, India’s poet-patriot, who (in B.Gopala Reddi’s words of 1948) “rose like a giant, and his voice took on the dimensions of a trumpet whose blast was epic!” AND FINALLY, SOME HUMBLE SUGGESTIONS REGARDING HOW THE IMMORTAL LINES OF THE POEM – ALONG WITH SELECTED ASPECTS OF OTHER NATIONAL SONGS – COULD BE SLOTTED INTO THE NEW ANTHEM : 1.The opening lines : “Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high” could also herald the new Anthem, backed by “that heaven of freedom” into which Tagore wanted the country to awake. So, how about : “MAN JAHAAN NA DARAY, SAR JAHAAN NA JHUKAY – AISA HO DESH HAMAARA !” Sing the words in the “Janaganamana” mode. Do they move and inspire with impact ? (Perhaps the group of poets who are selected to spearhead and streamline the Hindustani rendering could do even better.) 2.Other deeply meaningful messages of the poem that should be considered for adapting into the new Anthem could perhaps be broken down or combined into the following aspects (not necessarily in the same sequence or grouping) : a)Where Knowledge and Success is available to all. b)Where Truth, Reason and Brotherhood guide us to Unity and Strength. c)Where we strive continuously for Perfection, and march towards Peace and Progress. 3.Elements of other National Songs that deserve to be incorporated : a)Dr. Iqbal’s “Mazhab Naheen Sikhaata Aapas Mein Bair Rakhna” – in some form – is naturally essential, to emphasise that all religions emanate from the same solitary GOD, and that the whole world – not just the whole of India – is ONE FAMILY. b)Linking the “Maatrabhoomi” (or “Janmabhoomi”) concept with something like “Maa Tujhe Salaam” (as in Bharat Bala’s and A.R. Rahman’s excellent version of “Vande Maataram”) could effectively help to avoid controversies. …. 8 …. c)Would it also be possible to briefly convey what a beautiful “sangam” of cultures and languages our country is ? (Reflecting “Aikyavidhaayak” from Janaganamana’s 2nd stanza, and “Sumadhur bhaashineem” from “Vande Maataram”.) d)A concept for a new India could be referred to – as mentioned in Janaganamana’s 5th antra (“Navjeevan Ras Dhaale” and “Nidrit Bhaarat Jaage”) – rejecting the “desert sand of dead habit.” e)Keeping our “tiranga” flag always proudly flying high could be conveyed with a form of “Jhanda Ooncha Rahay Hamara”. 4.And the final VICTORY CALL could – and should – mention all the three most well-known official names of our country – to cover its national, traditional and international glory : “JAI HIND ! JAI BHAARAT ! JAI INDIA ! JAI-JAI-JAI-JAI HO !! (Not “hey”!) Well, my friends, that is the nucleus. The rest is left to the combined effort and consensus of the world’s largest democracy. But whether or not we can succeed soon in converging our aspirations into a new Anthem, WHAT IS MOST ESSENTIAL IS THAT ALL OF US BEGIN, RIGHTAWAY AND ON A WAR FOOTING, TO CLEAN UP, SIMPLIFY AND CLARIFY THE ENTIRE GAMUT OF INDIAN COMMUNICATIONS WITH TRUTH AND JUSTICE. PANELS CONSISTING OF HIGHLY INTELLIGENT AND RELIABLE PATRIOTS NEED TO BE SET UP IN ALL FIELDS AND ALL AREAS, TO ENSURE THAT ALL INDIANS CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THEIR RIGHTS AND DUTIES, THEIR SCOPES AND LIMITS, THEIR AVENUES OF PROGRESSIVE CO-OPERATION AND PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE. TOO MUCH TIME HAS ALREADY BEEN WASTED – IF WE DON’T LOOK SHARP NOW, WE COULD SOON BE HURTLING TOWARDS IRRETRIEVABLE SELF-DESTRUCTION. ― AMEEN SAYANI ***************** Publications referred to: 1.“OUR NATIONAL SONGS” – issued by Publications Division, Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. 2.“INDIA’S NATIONAL ANTHEM” - by Prabodhchandra Sen. 3.“LETTERS TO GAURI” – by M.V. Kamath. (Letters No. 1, 2 and 82 regarding our three main national songs.) 4.“RABINDRANATH TAGORE: A CENTENARY VOLUME” – with articles by Jawaharlal Nehru, Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan and other eminent people. 5.“THE ARGUMENTATIVE INDIAN” - by Amartya Sen. (Chapter 5, entitled “Tagore and his India.”) 6.Several newspaper articles pertaining to the Vande Maataram “centenary” controversy. * * * From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:16:13 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:16:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani to Head UIDAI, Gets Cabinet Rank- 135 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907030156v31eea4e2i7f1094796251973c@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907030156v31eea4e2i7f1094796251973c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030246x46b03028h10c012f391f74410@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, and Taha in particular, the issue raised by you is very relevant, can a ragtag combination of political parties with claim to major alliance do as they please in appointing any person, qualified or otherwise, to cabinet minister rank without approval of citizens of the nation.? Is this not a policy making body for legislation and not executive body of governance, are the two issues that have clouded my intellect. Hope the list and its members will enlighten by value added discusssion. Regards, rajen. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Congress is acting as if they own the country. Could anyone please ask > them under what procedure of public scrutiny was Nilekani allowed to > acquire a Cabinet birth. Or is it is the prerogative of ruling > dispensation to appoint anyone as they please. Could then a BJP > majority govt appoint someone like Mohan Bhagwat at some post on > internal security with a cabinet berth? > > I have tremendous amount of respect for what Nilekani has done for the > country as far as of the business of IT is concerned but could this be > made into a premise for him to be given a public post, involving > public money??? > > Why is the BJP the so-called 'party 'with a difference' sounding more > like a shadow government with shadow ministers and praising the > policies of government in power? > > > > > http://www.indiajournal.com/pages/event.php?id=7555 > > Nilekani to Head UIDAI, Gets Cabinet Rank > Date Submitted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 > > NEW DELHI - Infosys Technologies’ Co-Chairman Nandan Nilekani was June > 25 appointed Chairman of an Authority with Cabinet Minister’s rank to > steer the ambitious scheme for creating a multi-purpose unique > identification database of citizens. > > 54-year-old Nilekani, co-founder of the leading IT firm along with N R > Narayana Murthy 28 years ago, will head the Unique Identification > Database Authority of India (UIDAI) under the aegis of the Planning > Commission. > > He will have the rank and status of the Cabinet Minister, Information > and Broadcasting Minister Ambika Soni told reporters after a Cabinet > meeting. > > The scheme is aimed at providing a unique identity to the targeted > population of the flagship schemes to ensure that the benefits reach > them, she said. > > A visionary and a thinker, Nilekani, who gets an annual compensation > of over $175,000 and whose net worth is $1.3 billion, resigned his > membership of Infosys Board of Directors following his appointment. > > His colleagues in Infosys top management Mohandas Pai and Kris > Gopalakrishnan said his exit from Infosys would be a loss to the > organization but a gain to the country. > > Announcing his appointment, the PMO said Prime Minister Manmohan > Singh has invited Nilekani to chair an authority that will create a > unique identification database of the country’s citizens. > > Nilekani, born in Sirsi in Uttara Kannada in Karnataka, did his early > education in Bangalore and Dharwad before moving to Mumbai to study > Electrical Engineering in IIT, Bombay. > > The PMO said the functioning of the authority and activities to be > performed by the UIA would serve multiple objectives. > > The authority shall have the responsibility to lay down plans and > policies to implement the unique identification scheme in the country. > > It shall own and operate the unique identification number database and > be responsible for its updation and maintenance on an ongoing basis. > > Sonia Gandhi said the Authority shall have responsibility to lay down > plans and policies to implement the Unique Identification Scheme > (UID), shall own and operate the Unique Identification number database > and be responsible for its updation and maintenance on an ongoing > basis,” Sonia said. > > The Authority will identify the targeted groups for various flagship > programs, she added. > > The flagship schemes of the UPA include the National Rural Employment > Guarantee Scheme, Sarva Shiksha Abhiyaan, National Rural Health > Mission and Bharat Nirman. > > The unique identification number would ensure that any lacuna in these > schemes is removed so that the benefits do not reach those they are > not meant for. > > The Government had earmarked Rs 1,000 Million in the interim Budget > presented by Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee in Parliament on > February 16 to kickstart its ambitious Unique Identification Project. > > The government has been working on improving arrangements to ensure > that development deliverables reach the intended beneficiaries, > Mukherjee had said. > > In order to do so efficiently, effectively and economically, a > comprehensive system of unique identity had been worked out, he had > added. > > The Government also plans to set up state units of UIDAI, headed by > state UID Commissioners. (PTI) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:19:22 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:19:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030249r3867ed4oa6e5e1374d117319@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, why not to all students., who deserve it, why only for "minority" who are majority in west Bengal when it comes to vote bank for elections that are to be held shortly.? Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I am sorry to pre-judge it myself by calling it an act of > pseudo-secularism. > I apologize for the same. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:22:30 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:22:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907030249r3867ed4oa6e5e1374d117319@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030249r3867ed4oa6e5e1374d117319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee The scheme is meant for minority students in Metro, not in the entire West Bengal. Hence, the argument that it is meant to garner minority votes across the state of Bengal is flawed. By the way, any scheme is always designed for a vote bank. These are democratic leaders who have to garner votes in elections, not dictators who can vote by whims and fancies. What is so wrong in vote bank politics? Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:24:57 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:24:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030249r3867ed4oa6e5e1374d117319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all Sorry again. I don't know whether these are democratic leaders or not. What I meant to say is that these are leaders in a democracy who have to garner votes to win elections. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:30:19 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:30:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030300l522feb0bp7344755ac78d43ea@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, when Rakesh jee writes issues about RSS I can only say, he has right to express, so be it, then pray, Oh, Lord, forgive him, he knows not what he is saying.! It is time that instead of being only reading, the younger generations went nearer to the villages, understood the vagaries of life,the day to day life of aam admi, not from the net or tv screen but in real life, only that experience will get you to respond and react better .! And dear rakesh jee, I am not knowledgeable, or learned as you presume me of, I am still a student in learning process but it is really dismal when some pass judgements about an issue with half knowledge or even with bookish knowledge without the experience of the issue at hand. Only experience makes knowledge more powerful as wisdom. Any issue can be seen in different perspective, understood differently by anyone of us, because the simple words in malady, majhab nahi sikhatha kisise bair karna, is enough to enlighten a mind without fear. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen jee > > Let me answer your arguments in points: > > 1) First of all, I am tired of this secularism. I don't want any secularism > at all. It's a western ideological concept, which has been adopted in India > by twisting it on Nehruvian ideas, as I see it. Since the acceptance of > India being a secular country in the Preamble of the Indian Constitution, we > have had many more riots than before. The Indian state has by and large > either abetted these acts or failed from discharging its responsibilities in > these cases. And here I mean to say all the three organs of the state have > failed to some or the other extent in this. > > The fact of the matter is that secularism is actually becoming a > justification for the violence, especially that directed against the > minorities. Look at the RSS. Isn't the RSS secular? Of course it is. It is > secular because it doesn't want a diversified version of Hinduism to exist > in this nation, at least not in the form it exists. You talk about tribals. > There are tribals in this country who eat meat, and those who drink as well. > Among these tribal communities, women also drink along with men. But the RSS > would have none of it, because it's against 'culture'. > > Even if the diversities do exist, the RSS has decided to make these > palatable, and thereby ensuring that all of us are just mere clones: modern > outlook-based, secular in thought and expression, and nationalistic. This is > exactly what is not required. This is also what Hinduism is not about. > > The RSS is an organization which supports the demand for a Uniform Civil > Code. Isn't it so? Why? Because the RSS is indeed secular, going by the > European definiton of the term. Yes, it doesn't want the state to involve > itself in religious affairs. This is why it wants the Govt. to scrap Haj > subsidies. Which is why the VHP led goons were justifying the 2002 > post-Godhra pogrom by stating that Muslims are always appeased, and of > course any kind of appeasement is against secularism, right Rajen jee? > > So, the problem is of secularism itself. The day secularism is out of > Indian politics, the RSS would be holding meetings to find out what next to > attack, because one armour in their weaponry would be now a waste. > > This is why like you, I myself am hoping for a death of secularism. And I > don't feel India is a secular country. > > 2) Christian or Hindu, tribals are being oppressed from all quarters. To > add to this, we now have Naxalites who are also looking for a foothold among > the tribals. And of course, the Indian state is not too far to join it. > First, it was the Christian organizations who decided to proselytize with > the aim of 'harvesting the souls of Christ'. Then came the RSS, which wanted > to ensure their ideological domination, and therefore in the name of > secularism, started to question 'conversions' and indulged in conversion > programmes of their own. > > They organized the 'ghar wapasi' programmes. But when the tribals were > never Hindus in the first place, isn't this conversion of Hindus? And > ironically, our Indian state never bothered to query as to whether the > tribals thought themselves to be Hindus or not. So also the RSS or their > sister organizations. > > Our Naxalite brothers, then entered the fray in the name of fighting for > the tribals. Of course, now it has converted into a goonda movement where > the top commanders get rich and the people at the bottom get certain > appeased rights, and those who oppressed earlier or considered the agents of > the rich pay. > > And then, we have the Indian state which enters the fray through police > (fake encounters), and Salwa Judum (and of course arrests like Binayak Sen > for which no condemnation can be enough) > > 3) Since you talk about my half knowledge level Sir, I agree I don't have > that great knowledge as you have. But you should also know that after the > Kashmir earthquake a few years ago (which affected both sides of Kashmir, > Indian and Pakistani), there were numerous reports of how the jihadi > organizations on POK (as reported in the Indian side) were involved in > relief and rehabilitation of those who died, providing them tents and > shelters as well as food, clothing, medicines and other help if required. > And the ISI was accused of helping them through men and material. > > So if ISI can do such things, or coordinate in such activities, and if > Pakistanis therefore consider it right on their part to indulge in > activities like organizing bomb blasts across the nation, would it be fair > on their part to do so? > > Infact, if I may say so, the ISI is less dangerous than the RSS. The ISI is > not a danger for Pakistan (the nation it works for)necessarily, as it's > primarily an espionage agency which acts outside Pakistan. The RSS is a > greater danger for our own country (the nation it supposedly works for) > itself because a foreign based ideology having no benefits is being sought > to be imposed on our own people, without a proper debate and discussion on > it. People are being misled in the name of Hindutva, and the very existence > of India as a free and fair democracy is being misused by asking people to > be nationalistic. > > Also, my comparison is between ISI and RSS on an ideological scale and also > on the kind of actions they are indulging in, with respect to 'educating > children'. > > By the way, the Army also does great amount of social service work during > times of distress, but that does not mean that the Army is given the right > to go around doing anything, going against the norms of democracy and rights > of people, in the name of AFSPA or other powers to protect the nation? This > is why furore takes place when any person in uniform is heard or accused of > raping a woman or taking part in a fake encounter. > > 4) The RSS has the Bajrang Dal and the VHP to do the dirty work, which is > to take the fight against the minorities. Howsoever much you claim to be > otherwise, people on this forum are wise enough to know the links between > the VHP and the Bajrang Dal. And the acts of these organizations are too > well known to be hidden. Probably the RSS gets embarassed when these links > are exposed, but people know what it is. > > Waise Rajen jee, try telling that RSS is not linked to the two > organizations to anybody who has some knowledge of politics in this nation, > and all you will get is a ridicule. Even those from foreign countries who > have knowledge of politics in this nation are not going to believe you. > > My argument goes beyond the RSS acting against the minorities; I personally > believe it's an organization whose ideology is a threat to Hinduism, to > India, and more importantly, to humanity itself. This is an ideology which > threatens to completely override the diversity of the Hindu faith and > religion and convert it into a mono-ideological, secular, modern-outlook > based religion, which is to completely disrespect the faith of those who are > talked of as being 'on the margins'. It is to ensure that Hindu religion > becomes similar to Islam and Christianity, which are supposed to have one > holy book, and one major place of worship. > > The RSS is a threat to India because it has misused the right of democracy > and freedom of speech and expression, and the right to practise, preach and > profess one's views and religion, to spread their ideology which attacks the > minorities in direct/subtle manner and of course, to ensure that the > ideology spreads that 'the minorities have to live on the goodwill of the > majority'. This is against the basic right of democracy. Infact, the RSS > should be happy India is a democracy. If it were a dictatorship, under some > Nehru-kind of leader, the RSS would not have existed in this country. > > And of course, all this is a threat to humanity itself, along with the idea > of imitating the 'enemy'. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:38:58 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:38:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030249r3867ed4oa6e5e1374d117319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030308x5745b548ufb2db4a56dbe8a23@mail.gmail.com> Rakeshjee, democratic leaders.........@ beating up a bank manager, murder convicts in elected positions, rape convicts in parliament,these leaders do not hesitate to take laws in to their own hands in rule of laws.! Rule of laws as proclaimed in constitution of India is that of inclusive governance, not excluding a set of people because of faith or region or religion, more over, the minister of railways is for the nation, not for west bengal, as the minister is using the resources from the entire nation, not one state in the budget. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > Sorry again. I don't know whether these are democratic leaders or not. What > I meant to say is that these are leaders in a democracy who have to garner > votes to win elections. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:42:31 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:42:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907030300l522feb0bp7344755ac78d43ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030300l522feb0bp7344755ac78d43ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for praying for me. I am happy at least someone is praying, and if God certainly feels I am wrong, well, things will take a turn on that count. But right now I had a query to ask: Of what use is a prayer which focuses on attaining success by killing the 'other' and putting him under all kinds of subjugation? As for the knowledge, I can certainly say that both of us are also commenting on articles given by same media. Therefore, to state that one article is wrong and the other is right, without any proof is not going to help. Yes, I haven't gone to villages and therefore probably don't know the harsh truths, and of course, news can be manipulated. But why should only news about RSS be manipulated? Why can't news about the Congress or the BJD or the RJD or any other party or organization be manipulated? Why can't Modi manipulate the news as well? Why should only the sites which claim themselves to be the pro-rightists speak the truth? Are the others always speaking lies? Sir, you are elder than me, and I believe you should have answered the arguments I have raised in my post. These are not my arguments, these are arguments raised by scholars who have studied RSS for so many years and have developed critiques of their ideas and ideology. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:46:20 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:46:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC (Anti-Sodomy) ? In-Reply-To: <316860.33511.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <316860.33511.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030316u440b5a2eme350c9b3ef11c9d5@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, it was sacred duty of men in media oops, sorry, women also, to report accurately, but alas, the media has failed miserably by hyping the issues than going in for distinctive analysis, as seen yesterday in all English news channels, it was as if sodomy has been legalized, instead of correct position of report sodomy is de-criminalized.? More importantly, the rights of individuals to have lifestyles that they enjoy without impinging on others rights in society has been upheld. Further, the word queer is misused here in reportage, as there are queers , all are queers in one way or other as different individuals have different ways of life.! Any comments.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:33 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > > Dear Mr Kaul, > The decisions of the High Courts have nowadays become > infrutuous as every Tom, Dick and Harry appeals to the Supreme Court and the > Supreme Court invariably admits the appeal.(With due regards to the Hon'ble > HC & SC). > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > Subject: [Reader-list] High Court to Abolish Section 377 IPC > (Anti-Sodomy) ? > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:04 AM > > Lord Macaulay wouldn't be smiling in > > his grave if this comes true. > > > > For Sarai list members - A rumour doing the rounds all day > > in media suggests > > that the High Court may abolish or at least pass a strong > > verdict against > > the Section 377 IPC. > > > > Some experts however say it wouldn't be that easy and the > > case might be > > immediately transferred to the Supreme Court. > > > > Hope this is helpful. > > > > thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > *More from IANS* > > > > The verdict will be the first to be delivered by an Indian > > court on a 19th > > century law that treats homosexual activity as a criminal > > offence. > > > > The petitioners, including voluntary organisation Naz > > Foundation, pleaded > > that the criminal provision against homosexual behaviour > > should be scrapped > > for consenting adults who indulge in such acts in private. > > > > The petition said that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code > > (IPC) is > > violative of their fundamental right. > > > > Section 377 of the IPC says an individual who > > “voluntarily has carnal > > intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman > > or animal” shall > > be imprisoned for life or for a term exceeding 10 years and > > be liable to pay > > a fine. > > > > During the course of the proceedings, the health ministry > > and the home > > ministry, respondents to the petition, were divided in > > their opinion, with > > the health ministry’s affidavit supporting the > > petitioners and the home > > ministry opposing decriminalization of same-sex activity > > saying such > > behaviour was immoral and could not be allowed in Indian > > society. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:48:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:48:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907030308x5745b548ufb2db4a56dbe8a23@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907030126n5e8494e3wd9298d55ab74788e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030249r3867ed4oa6e5e1374d117319@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030308x5745b548ufb2db4a56dbe8a23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The vote bank politics I talked about is quite different from the rule of law being not followed. Any beatings or violence should be unacceptable, but attributing it to vote bank politics is not necessarily correct, because there is no proof or correlation which states that such acts or violence do bring about votes. And if things have come over to such a passe, then it obviously means that we need to look at the things in correct perspective. Exclusion can take place on different counts, and what has to be determined is whether such exclusion is justified or not. For example, Below Poverty Line families (BPL) have to be provided food at cheaper rates, and hence there are arguments for excluding those families which are wealthy enough and hence should not be included in the BPL list. Similarly, when it's said that discrimination is not a part and parcel of Islam and Christianity and hence the tribals and dalits converting to these religions should not get reservation, that too is an exclusion on the basis of religion. What is important is the justification being given, and whether that holds true or not. Therefore, one should look at these things on a case-to-case basis, not generalize them. Please don't raise one issue after another, but concentrate on one and then let's decide and debate whether it's right or wrong. Regards Rakesh From shahzulf at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 15:49:25 2009 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Seminar: Question of Peace in South Asia Message-ID: <620285.89443.qm@web38803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear All:   Forum for Peace & Harmony and South Asia Partnership Pakistan invites you to participate one day seminar on Question of Peace in South Asiato be held at Sindh Language Authority Hall, Hyderabad on July 4, 2009 at 4:30 pm.   The renowned scholars and peace activist of South Asia Dr Mazher Hussain, Dr Sandeep Pandey, Mr Jatin Desai and Ms Sudha Srinivasa Reddy will discuss the theme.   You are requested to participate this event.     Sincerely,     Zulfiqar Shah Punhal Saryo  New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 15:50:49 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:50:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RSS and Child Trafficking In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907022140g46ae6027h942469b1514abfbf@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907022330s34a6a848m2ad19964ae906887@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030004w7aacc51frbdb440b67f4ef81c@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907030300l522feb0bp7344755ac78d43ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907030320r5a87200fr90f71d608ea81fc7@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, I just finished the novel by Dan Brown, Demons and Angels, in it there are many thoughts which are really thought provoking and enlightening, you may if have time read the novel. At one page, he feels, the human biggest weakness is seeking proof.! Arguments for the sak of arguments will not take us anywhere, you have expressed your thoughts, I have expressed mine, let the readers use their freedom to explore further.! Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Thank you for praying for me. I am happy at least someone is praying, and > if God certainly feels I am wrong, well, things will take a turn on that > count. But right now I had a query to ask: Of what use is a prayer which > focuses on attaining success by killing the 'other' and putting him under > all kinds of subjugation? > > As for the knowledge, I can certainly say that both of us are also > commenting on articles given by same media. Therefore, to state that one > article is wrong and the other is right, without any proof is not going to > help. Yes, I haven't gone to villages and therefore probably don't know the > harsh truths, and of course, news can be manipulated. > > But why should only news about RSS be manipulated? Why can't news about the > Congress or the BJD or the RJD or any other party or organization be > manipulated? Why can't Modi manipulate the news as well? Why should only the > sites which claim themselves to be the pro-rightists speak the truth? Are > the others always speaking lies? > > Sir, you are elder than me, and I believe you should have answered the > arguments I have raised in my post. These are not my arguments, these are > arguments raised by scholars who have studied RSS for so many years and have > developed critiques of their ideas and ideology. > -- Rajen. From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 18:01:29 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:01:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Manmohan and the Maoists Message-ID: <35f96d470907030531g55b0ed32ic96d2a6955d7e40f@mail.gmail.com> Manmohan and the Maoists http://thefishpond.in/satya/2009/manmohan-and-the-maoists/ by Satya Sagar He has come to power through a ‘Long March’, advocates steady encircling of the ‘enemy’ population, scoffs at the Indian Constitution and while paying lip service to democracy believes power ultimately flows through the barrel of a gun. You are quite right in thinking I am referring to some Maoist leader somewhere. Of course I am talking of Dr Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister of India and if you don’t believe me just look at his record to understand what I mean. This ‘mild mannered’ professor first did the arduous Long March from academics to civil service to politics – with many sacrifices on the way- mostly of his own principles. Next as finance minister in the early nineties he promoted policies that have resulted in the encircling of the Indian countryside by urban ‘liberated zones’ culminating in the introduction of the notorious Chinese concept of Special Economic Zones. Read Full article at http://thefishpond.in/satya/2009/manmohan-and-the-maoists/ -- "The resources of the world are for us all to share. Let us affirm our faith in that common cause" - Dr. Ilina Sen From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Fri Jul 3 18:11:51 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:11:51 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] University of Delhi ,the next Terror Hub? Message-ID: <798746.45998.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> DAS NSG HUB. Chidambaram sitting as a king, India is a Rajya, with armed men everywhere, Searching and behaving bossily, everyone can do anything to rise above the ladder to appease cooks and servants if the need be, logic seems to have failed. Making the a Black Cat is not child's play. Apart the talents, the bullets,extra after police or army training, the huge and elaborate support staff, the hosptial charges, the bullets, mess, other weapons mechanism and perks, the hard hours of training, the trainers involved etc, makes this force a really expensive, in rare terms and elite.  Training a soldier is very expensive except food and residence, it takes about Rs15000 in little more than 2 weeks.One soldier dead is expensive to the nation. Off course they have to die, but in job, to protect people or nation.. An Unplanned massacre and injury by pressuring the NSg's should be avoided. The Mumbai scenario. We've not learned lessons. We depriciated lives of those civilians who could live in the name of combatting terrors. And we flush out armed naxalites with villagers, the more trivial fights, the less limelight on serious issues of National wealth and QOL. Now I've an important news. I deliberately exclude police from it, first on forum. Coz I belive effect would be reverse. Off late I'd been hearing that some street Dweller(S) have been talking on some radio device. Could be of Intelligence, Indian, foreign or enemy. If not Indian, then there is fear. Yesterday while returnong on side of Patel Chest towards Metro Station, I found a man looking half mad, an urchin, sort of one nobody would find. A voice, like any radio, only in short spurts and the man reacting to every sentence. Then I stop the man says somehing and radio stops, I see something like a wireless device in his ragged back. Very cautiously this man now seems not so mad but may be some trader and asks me Whats the matter. Nothing. Only cleared my doubts, a spread carpet, not of any trade, a radio device and an alert mind. Who is he? I didn't call the police for two reasons: A. I did not wanna get hurt. Most probably, some policemen, the hawala is also into it. B. I did not want arbitary harrasment of ragamuffins, pick them, beat them, shove them away. They are street dwellers and this would increase, not certainly decrease the level on crime. Even Staff or students may be abused. If anything of ths happens, I'd have to protest. The place at stake is my alma matter. However, I'd like all readers on this list moving around that place to be cautious, and the police try to interfere radio frequencies, and employ benign looking Plain clothes men there. This is a good place, and good people live here,and I believe any strike here will only hamper it's braod accomodating, multi-cultural and elite culture. Not a good scheme for any normal ultra group. Then who? This man looked a rajasthani, and Indian. On guessing, simply concerned my near and dear ones.. Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Fri Jul 3 18:41:02 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:41:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907030055n4ba19684sa9d0c67c5c9cd7d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <856906.97853.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> See, your fears are allayed, and one thing positive than social factors alone. All the way there had been a protest that railways should not be a profit or surplus making sector while airlines subsideised. Hope it gets implemented. Heard her talk about technicalities of implementation. Hope they bear fruit. ________________________________ From: Pawan Durani To: reader-list Sent: Friday, 3 July, 2009 1:25:03 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Sickular railway budget I wonder what is happening to this country . How much appeasement should we allow. In todays railways budget one of the soaps announced by Mamta is "Metro concession in Kolkata to minority students". Why should other students be denied ? Has minorty anything to do with real economic issue ? Disgusting "Sickular" politicians.... _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:18:51 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:18:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge Message-ID: <6353c690907030948h596569d2tba553564c3d8bb0@mail.gmail.com> Cabinet split over order legalising homosexuality *CNN-IBN* *New Delhi:* They might have won the battle in the court, but gays and lesbians in India are still not welcome in the temples, mosques or churches. The Catholic Christian groups in country are set to challenge the Delhi High Court verdict in the Supreme Court. Reverend Stephen Alathara of the Kerala Catholic Bishop Council says, "We have been assured by Government Ministers that homosexuality will not be legalised. We will go to the Supreme Court against the verdict along with other catholic groups." And it's not the just the church. Opposing homosexuality is one issue that has brought all religious leaders together. Hindu Godman Baba Ramdev and Muslim Ulema from the Deoband have already cautioned the Government against legalising homosexuality. "We will make sure that the Government will not bring any changes in the law," says a member of the famous Lucknow seminary of Firangi Mahal. As decibels rise, the Government zeal to change the law is diminishing. A high-level meeting of the Home Minister, Health Minister and the Law Minister at the North Bloc failed to reach a consensus on the future course of action. "We three ministers met to analyse Section 377 and we have analysed it. Now we will submit a small note on the same to the Prime Minister for appropriate action to be taken," says Law Minister *Veerappa Moily* . There is no consensus among the ministers and if the debate reaches Parliament, the UPA Government will be at the receiving end from the BJP as well as parties like the RJD and the *Samajwadi Party*, which are also taken bitterly opposed to gay rights. *(With inputs from Seemi Pasha and Aasim Khan in New Delhi)* From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 00:11:27 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 00:11:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fishworkers delegation scores CMZ victory Message-ID: <3457ce860907031141k78e02f3dr3fb0451fa222f0e8@mail.gmail.com> *PRESS RELEASE** Press Conference at Press Club, July 3, 2009, New Delhi * * * *FISHWORKERS DELEGATION SCORES CMZ VICTORY;* *Fishworkers to be consulted prior to any new legislation/notification,* *Separate Fisheries Ministry under consideration*** * * The Ministry of Environment has agreed to drop the proposal to replace the current “Coastal Regulation Zone” (CRZ) notification with a controversial “Coastal Management Zone” (CMZ) notification. Minister Jairam Ramesh conveyed this to a delegation of the National Fishworkers Forum (NFF), which met him in Delhi on July 02, 2009. The delegation took up a number of issues pertaining to India’s 20 million strong traditional fishing community with Ministries of Environment and Forest, Agriculture, Labour and Home, and the ILO. The delegation also met the President of India. Shri Jairam Ramesh told the delegation that the Ministry is willing to drop the current CMZ notification that lapses on July 22, 2009 and will start a dialogue with the fishing community on the best way to manage the coast. He has agreed to a series of five consultations in Bhubaneshwar, Chennai, Cochin, Goa and Mumbai with fishing community representatives of all the nine coastal states before August 31, 2009. He assured that the Ministry will respect the customary rights of the fishing communities. The NFF delegation met with the President of India, Ministers of Agriculture, Environment, Labour and Home, MPs of coastal states, key officials and representatives of the International Labour Organisation (ILO). This visit by a NFF delegation was a follow up of their Kutch-Kolkata march along the entire coast last year and the subsequent agitation in Delhi over a charter of 16 demands. These demands include the scrapping of the new Coastal Management Zone notification, enactment of a comprehensive legislation to regulate fishing in India’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), the ratification of the ILO’s “work in fishing” convention and the waiver of the debts of fishermen and fisherwomen on the lines of the debt waiver granted to farmers. The delegation insisted on the MoEF implementing the recommendations of the *Parliamentary Standing Committee on Science & Technology, Environment & Forests headed by Rajya Sabha M.P. Dr. V. Maitreyan,* which submitted its report to the Parliament on March 20, 2009. The standing committee has recommended an elaborate consultation with the fishing communities as a pre-condition for any legislation or regulation by the MoEF. It has also recommended a comprehensive legislation (on the lines of the Forest Rights Act) that protects the rights of the fishing communities rather than the issue of a mere notification by the MoEF. v Parliamentary Standing Committee has clearly stated the following: *“1. Almost everywhere, it was asserted before the Committee that CRZ is still a preferred piece of legislation to CMZ Notification, 2008 because the former has succeeded in containing pollution and encroachment along the coastal areas to a large extent, whereas, it was felt that CMZ Notification is a replacement/substitution of CRZ Notification in its amended form with greater possibilities of misuse. One of the greatest apprehensions about the CMZ Notification was that it proposes legalization and encouragement to industrial corporate activities along the coasts in the garb of management methodologies. It was widely apprehended that this Notification will significantly curtail the accessibility of the local community to the shore and sea resources and serve the economic interests of the corporate sector/large investors like tourism industry, refinery, mining etc. * *2. Local coastal communities almost unanimously voiced that protection of coastal ecology and recognition of basic rights and livelihood of the local communities over the sea and the coast should be at the heart of any coastal zone planning. The fishermen were of the view that coastal management plan should be framed by taking them into confidence and that mere mention in the Notification – “There would be no restriction of fishing or fishery related activities of local communities” is not enough to instill confidence among them. They need to be involved, included and integrated in the future opportunities related to the Coastal Zone. The Committee also feels that in a democratic country like ours the preferred approach should be bottom up – public participation in planning and development rather than top down – decisions made by Govt. and not involving people in inclusive growth opportunities and practices in matters which have far reaching consequences on a vast population solely dependent on their tradition vocations and way of life. It is primarily keeping in view this concern that peoples’ participation in policy formulation becomes all the more important and inevitable.”*** * * The NFF sought the intervention of the MoEF in the issue of the Jambudweep fishermen displaced by the unfair implementation of the Forest Protection Act and the imposition of Marine Protected Areas (MPAs) without consulting the fishermen. The Minister has agreed to sympathetically review these. The NFF delegation was assured by the *Minister for Agriculture Shri Sharad Pawar* and *Prof KV Thomas* (MoS) that the Ministry has agreed to consider the waiver of bank loans for small scale traditional fishermen and women. The Ministry sought more details on the bank loans provided by banks to small fishworkers. The *Labour Minister Shri Mallikarjun Kharge* has promised to ratify the ILO Convention on Fishing and enact required legislations. The delegation met the President of India Smt. Pratiba Patil and presented to her the demand to set up a separate Ministry for fisheries. This is in view of the current situation that decision making affecting the fisheries sector and fishing communities are spread over a number of Ministries and departments. The President listened with interest to the various problems faced by the fishing communities and enquired in detail the problems faced by Maharashtra fishermen on account of the increased drilling for petroleum in their traditional fishing grounds. In the meeting with the representatives of the ILO, the delegation sought ILO’s collaboration in ensuring the ratification of the ILO’s Work in Fishing Convention (C188) and the enactment of national and state level legislations to bring the benefits of the ILO convention to Indian fishwoerkrs. The ILO agreed to facilitate the process of discussion with the concerned Ministries, state Governments and the Central Trade Unions. * * *NFF understands this round of negotiations on key issues as a success of its organizational strength and legitimacy of its demands. However, it believes that the process will be ongoing and at every point, NFF will raise the voice and concerns of the traditional fishworkers of India. While NFF has agreed to be part of the consultations by MoEF towards improving CRZ mandate, it is clear that quality community participation in good strength alone can make sure that the concerns of fishworkers are not by-passed. * * * *Hence, while agreeing, NFF is clear about the strategy to start fresh round of agitation on the issue of CMZ and others, if the fishworkers are not satisfied with the consultation procedure, after two rounds of the same.* * * *The NFF delegation was composed of the following persons: Thomas Kocherry (EC Member), T. Peter (Secretary) – Kerala, Vasudev Boloor (Secretary) – Karnataka, RK Patil (EC Member) – Maharashtra, Sagar (senior member) – Gujarat, Ramesh Dhuri & Naredra Patil (EC Member) – Maharashtra**. The delegation was accompanied by members of environmental, labour and human rights groups working together under the banner of Delhi Solidarity Group for NFF along with representative of South Indian Federation of Fishermen’s Societies (SIFFS).* * * *T. Peter (09447429243) Vasudev Boloor (09923241641)* *Secretary, NFF Secretary, NFF* From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 4 01:13:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:43:32 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Government gone mad in a total surveillance society Message-ID: <65be9bf40907031243q6a4891efk35367461c6c2b568@mail.gmail.com> http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0709/0709govsurv.htm Government gone mad in a total surveillance society By Tom DeWeese web posted June 29, 2009 I've heard it all- the cries, the pleas, the whines, the double speak and the lies. "We need the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to protect us from terrorists." "We must have Real ID to protect us from illegal immigration." "We must have E-Verify to protect American jobs." "Traffic light cameras are necessary to make the streets safer." "Security cameras on street corners make our neighborhoods safer." "I'm glad the TSA is there at the airport - I feel so much safer getting on an airplane." And my favorite lie of them all - "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear." Take note: every single one of these issues results in bigger, more invasive government, and not a single one will do anything to solve the intended problem. Every single one will make you less free, less happy and less safe. Here is my guarantee - put each and every one of these programs fully into place and learn the hard way that it isn't the final solution - but only the beginning. The government has much more in store for Americans and their privacy and personal security - and you are not going to be happy. Get ready, Americans. Here it comes like a freight train. And if you've uttered one of the whines listed above, then you have no one to blame but yourself. I've argued that the Department of Homeland Security is the greatest threat to liberty Americans have ever faced. It began with 170,000 employees by combining 22 existing federal agencies, including Border Patrol, Coast Guard, Secret Service, FEMA, Transportation Security Agency (TSA), Immigration and Naturalization, Customs Service, Animal and Plant Health Inspection, Federal Protective Service, FBI's Domestic Preparedness, Federal Computer Incident Response Center, and several more lesser agencies of the same type. All of these agencies are under the control of one manager, the Secretary of Homeland Security. As a result of provisions in the Patriot Act (a monstrous law, passed in the panic of 911 and admittedly never read by a single member of Congress before it was passed) the DHS Secretary - one person - has the power to send federal law enforcement into private homes without a search warrant. Records and materials may be taken from private homes, computer records searched, phones tapped and e-mails monitored, without the knowledge of the suspect. Now, some may argue that all of that is necessary to catch a terrorist and that it is not intended to affect innocent citizens. Again, it's the -"IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE - YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR" excuse. Before moving forward, let's get rid of this naive utterance once and for all. First, that statement really says that government always gets it right. So fear of searches is just nonsense - if you are innocent. Well, have you heard the recording of Campaign for Liberty employee Steve Bierfeldt when he was detained by the TSA simply because he was carrying less than $2,000 in cash from a conference? All young Steve did was ask the TSA agents to show him the law that said they had a right to ask him why he was carrying the money. The checks in the same metal box as the cash were made out to the Campaign for Liberty. Any moron could have figured out where the money came from and what it was for. But the TSA didn't care - they wanted to show their authority. Biefeldt presented the entire box to TSA agents, not trying to conceal it in any way. TSA tried to bully him and threatened to turn him over to drug enforcement authorities, as an attempt to make it appear he was carrying the cash from drug deals. Steve's reply was basically, "Fine - will they be able to show me the law?" Innocent Steve had nothing to hide and plenty to fear from TSA thugs. Second, that statement says that the Bill of Rights was only created to protect the guilty. You see, if you have nothing to hide, then you obviously don't need to be protected from government. The Constitution was written by men who feared government - even the one they were creating - and they put safeguards in it to force government to recognize and respect our property and our right to be innocent until proven guilty. DHS and the Patriot Act, and those who use the mantra "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear," reject and ignore those guarantees. Under the Patriot Act and it's agents in the DHS and TSA, you are not secure in your home or your person, you are not innocent until proven guilty and you are not allowed to face your accusers. That means tyranny, not the Constitution, is in control. Supposedly, the DHS mission is to be our frontline against terrorism. An added bonus, say its supporters, is to help reduce illegal immigration. Yet the department has opposed the most obvious element of "homeland security" - securing the nation's borders. DHS has blocked building the wall. It's done nothing about enforcing Visa violators. And sometimes it even blocks local law enforcement from arresting and deporting known illegals. Instead, DHS has been on a rampage to impose rules, regulations and projects, all designed to put legal, law abiding Americans in a massive straight jacket. Real ID is not a tool to fight illegal immigration First there was the Real ID Act. Unfortunately, some misguided Conservative leaders, both in the grassroots and in Congress continue to support this terrible Act as a safeguard to stop illegal immigration. They are horribly wrong. Real ID is argued to be an attempt to standardize the process and format for the creation of all state drivers' licenses to achieve increased security. Proponents argue that now we will know that anyone carrying a driver's license is legal in this country and therefore not a threat. What most Americans do not know is that Real ID did not originate in the United States, but in the backrooms of a UN organization called the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). Real ID mandates a certain picture quality for all drivers' licenses that are to be compliant with the ICAO's Document 9303 biometric format. Your photo taken by a local DMV is run thorough special software which measures and analyzes the unique personally identifiable characteristics of your face. The process results in a unique numeric code which identifies a person according to facial measurements. In other words, under Real ID, your face is reduced to a number code - a number which is read by computer, tracked by surveillance cameras and distributed worldwide by the ICAO. Take a look at your drivers' license - if it has a blue background, it is ICAO-compliant. Real ID is not a national ID card designed to protect us from terrorism and illegal immigration - it is an INTERNATIONAL ID card designed to track the movements of everyone wherever they go - anywhere in the world. As you read on you will find that it will get much worse, for Real ID is only the first step. The Obama Administration is now talking about repealing Real ID because there is such opposition to it. Do not be fooled. They know they are caught with this monster and so the flimflam is on - repeal Real ID and replace it with something much worse. That's how they play the game. E-Verify - Government control of jobs Second, the E-Verify system has been sold with the same argument - just a tool to stop illegal immigration. And those opposing it have been accused of being either liberals who just want open borders, or greedy businesses who want cheap labor. While it is true that elements of both exist in the opposition to E-Verify, the overwhelming number of opponents do so because of its connection with the creation of an international biometric ID system. Once again, because the government refuses to do its job, it has decided to make business the scapegoat in the battle against illegal immigration. It's so easy for these government hypocrites to put the burden of enforcement on the backs of those who simply wanted to start a business. Not only is business now forced to be the national tax collector and healthcare provider, it is also to be our first line of border defense. And we need government - why? In truth, E-Verify, which uses Social Security numbers to determine if someone is an American citizen is, again, the brain child of the Department of Homeland Security. Are you seeing a pattern here? Under expanded DHS rules, as in Real ID, E-Verify will now use "enhanced photograph capability" that will allow employers to check photographs in E- Verify databases. And, again, those photographs are compliant to the UN's ICAO international data bases. DHS is now also expanding compliant databases to include visa and passport files. The main danger in E-Verify is that it sets the stage for a national workforce management system which gives the government ultimate power to decide who works and who doesn't. It is designed to ultimately help subject all Americans to an intrusive global surveillance system as the information in DHS databanks is being transferred to international systems through DHS partners, including the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) and, of course, the ICAO. Now, here's where the terrifying truth about the Department of Homeland Security and the Real ID- E-Verify matrix being created begins to come into focus. (Those Americans who supported these plans just because they wanted a little security are now going to find how wrong they are.) Cameras on every corner The world is now full of security cameras called CCTVs. They are in every public building, every airport, and every convenience store. And it's the same around the world. It is said that one can not travel anywhere in London without being on a camera. The same is quickly becoming true in Washington, DC and many other American cities. Washington DC is now installing cameras on nearly every street corner in every neighborhood to watch for crime. Do you feel safer yet? Of course, now every city has found the quick- buck benefits of traffic light cameras. Police control by mail. How modern. Now, what's the connection between Real ID and CCTV's? Your driver's license or more precisely, your digital facial image/photograph is, and will be used with CCTV to identify you. It will not matter if you are in your hometown or in Berlin, Germany. Government will be able to identify you without your even knowing it. The CCTV camera will be pointed at you, a scan of your face will be taken and the results of the scan will be compared to domestic and international databases to determine your identity. The main purpose of the Real ID Act is to ensure we are enrolled into a global biometric identification system so government can know our whereabouts at all times. It has absolutely nothing to do with stopping illegal immigration - or even terrorists. You must understand most of these plans were at least being discussed long before 911 occurred. The only real barrier was the lack of technology. It's no longer a problem. Suspicious Sweat And so it gets worse. As we are all quietly enrolled in the international databases, there are plans to efficiently use that information. Comes now the Department of Homeland Security's "Project Hostile Intent" (PHI). Ohh - wait a minute - that's just too harsh (and revealing) for politically-correct public officials. Please just wait a minute while they rename it to "Future Attribute Screening Technologies" (FAST). That's better. Now we can all relax. The government just wants to keep us all safer, faster! What ever the name, the result is the same. FAST is a computer software program that assesses whether or not a person is more or less likely to present a threat based on the way a person behaves, walks, dresses or other factors. In fact the government is now working to obtain sensors that will help them monitor our sweat to decide of you are a threat based on how much you perspire. That means, if you are walking down the street, perhaps with your children, maybe sightseeing in a foreign town, and a CCTV monitor picks you up, you may be approached by law enforcement to determine if you are a security threat - simply because you matched the profile by the way you dressed or walked - or if you are sweating too much. You will be required to pull out your government-sanctioned ID and justify why you are there and what you are doing, regardless of the activity in which you are engaged. Do you get it yet? The point is law enforcement will not need actual probable cause to observe or detain you. All it will need to do is claim that you walk, dress or sweat suspiciously. Control and Intimidation There are two kinds of control - direct and indirect. Real ID compliance is direct control. Without compliance through the proper drivers' license you will lose access to public buildings, government services like marriage licenses, gun ownership, or travel by air or soon, even by train or bus. Indirect control comes from intimidation. Russell Tice, former National Security Agency (NSA) analyst has warned about that agency's efforts to intercept American's e-mails and phone calls. He has also discussed the monitoring of cash transactions. Obviously this is the kind of intimidation young Steve Bierfeldt was experiencing when the TSA thought they had him hidden away in a windowless room at the airport as they harassed and attempted to scare him into submission. Luckily that courageous young man was not intimidated and turned the tables on them by recording their tactics. The idea behind it all is to make you afraid to speak out or fight back - "Just let me on my plane and I promise not to make a fuss." "Right-wing Extremists" - not illegal immigrants - are the target So for those of you who may still think this is all just an overstatement - a misunderstanding - for those who still think Real ID and E-Verify are just necessary tools for stopping illegal immigration - - let me bring all of this together. In the June issue of The DeWeese Report (Volume 15, Issue 6) the lead article entitled "The Department of Homeland Security is a "Man-Caused Disaster," I reported on the MIAC Report from the State of Missouri and another report from the Department of Homeland Security. Both reports were intended to warn law enforcement to be on the lookout for rightwing extremists. It then went on to clarify what it meant: "Right-wing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly anti-government, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority ,or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration." The MIAC report stated that anyone who voted for Ron Paul, Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin was a potential security threat, possibly violent and possibly a terrorist. The report was issued by the Missouri Fusion center, a department under the control of the Department of Homeland Security. These reports are so broad in their definition of "rightwing extremist," that they can only indicate a growing attitude by the government that anyone who opposes its policies is a potential threat to the government and must be controlled or eliminated. In June, a lone gunman entered the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC and opened fire on two security guards. Of course, gun control advocates haven't hesitated to use the incident as another excuse to confiscate guns. That's to be expected. But the next day, The Washington Times reported in a sidebar article about the incident, saying, "Even before Wednesday's fatal shooting of a security guard purportedly by a white supremacist at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, right-wing extremists have come under increased scrutiny." The article went on to discuss the DHS report and quoted a professor from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice who said she worries that local law enforcement agencies do not keep close enough tabs on such groups and that the Internet allows them to put forth an extreme rhetoric that advocates violence. My friends, they are talking about you and me. Not enough surveillance on our "dangerous" ideas? This shooting couldn't have come at a better time for DHS. How convenient. Mandatory IDs containing biometric information in international databases that can track our every move through CCTV cameras on every street corner, which monitor our facial expressions and measure our sweat - are not tools to make us safer. They are the weapons of tyranny designed to keep the government safe from apparently "dangerous criminals" who believe in the Constitution of the United States - the very document every single American public official from the President to the police officers swore to protect and defend. Does that connect enough dots for you? Let me make it clearer. Because you believe in limited government, oppose immigration or abortion, or profess to be a Christian, you are being targeted by government as a threat. Total surveillance through Real ID and biometric data banks will be used to monitor and control your movements. E-Verify will be used to control whether you work or not. You can be shut out of society, unable to open a bank account, travel, or even drive a car because - just like the no-fly list - you will be targeted as an enemy of the state - all because of your political beliefs. You are the target in a nation where the government has gone mad. Do you feel safer yet? ESR Tom DeWeese is the President of the American Policy Center and the Editor of The DeWeese Report. The DeWeese Report is now available online. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 4 01:29:07 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:59:07 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] "The fastest way to make millions" : Multibagger Penny Stocks (MPS) from HBJ Capital Message-ID: <65be9bf40907031259v26438b4fgfd0b384760f8b7da@mail.gmail.com> http://www.multibaggerpennystocks.com/2009/07/these-two-companies-that-may-benefit.html "The fastest way to make millions" : Multibagger Penny Stocks (MPS) from HBJ Capital Penny stocks (stocks below Rs10 and have Mcap less than Rs100Cr) are very exciting investments, because they can produce bigger gains in shorter timeframes than you would see with conventional stocks. Investors are finally starting to realize that investment portfolios can really add a dimension of speed and energy by having a portion dedicated to penny stocks. While the rest of your holdings may make 8-10% in six months, your penny stocks could very well make five times that in half the time! Wednesday, July 1, 2009 These two companies may benefit from "Unique Identification scheme". Due to overwhelming request from 747 readers in just 2 days, we have decided to post those two companies which will be the most beneficiaries of the UID project. Thanks to all those who has requested for these two companies thru e-mail. Also thanks to all the readers of MPS who has made this penny stock dedicated portal (MPS) one of the top penny stock portal in India. #1. Glodyne Technoserve Limited subsidiary Smaarftech rolled out e-shakti project under NREGS (National Rural Employment generation Scheme). The e- Shakti project seeks to bring in contactless smart cards to workers registered with NREGS for their wage disbursement, identification, and a host of other service features. This company also has an experience of Database management and its security. Taking into account, its experience in implementing such schemes, the company may benefit from the proposed UID scheme. #2. Bartronics India Ltd operates in niche segment with not many competitors. It's already a key player in the smart cards segment and has been providing solutions related to Automatic Identification and data capture technologies. It has achieved expertise in smart cards, secure cards, contactless cards, biometric cards. It is just about the perfect player for the UID scheme and may turn out to be the biggest beneficiary of this project. More Details.... The total revenues for FY2008-09 for Bartronics stood at 582 Cr and for Glodyne Technoserve at around 400 Cr. As I mentioned earlier, that costing of cards alone will come out in the range of 10000-12000 Cr, whereas software development, maintenance of database, may cost another 4000-5000 Cr. The numbers outline a very optimistic picture for both the companies, because this project alone may form a substantial part of total revenues of both the companies for at least 3-4 years to come, especially for Batronics. The stream of revenues for software companies will be distributed over many years, as the work of up gradation and maintenance of database will be more like an ongoing process. As I said earlier, that huge database will have to be maintained and also software will have to be developed, so Indian IT industry may get the much needed fillip. But, the point is that with so many companies around, which all IT companies will benefit the most? I feel that this project being a major one, companies such as Infosys, TCS, and Wipro may get a larger chunk of the IT related work, as they are the revered and the preferred ones. So, finally it seems, govt. has embarked upon a path of growth and has embraced technology as a preferred partner for all its pursuits. Be it Restructured accelerated power development and reforms programme (R-APDRP) or now Unique ID programme. - MPS Team From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 4 01:42:08 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:12:08 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Multibillion dollar opportunity for IT cos Message-ID: <65be9bf40907031312w718e766bo187bedbf24be1eba@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/India-Business/Multibillion-dollar-opportunity-for-IT-cos/articleshow/4703693.cms Multibillion dollar opportunity for IT cos 26 Jun 2009, 0152 hrs IST, Mini Joseph Tejaswi & Shivani Mody, TNN BANGALORE: A billion smart cards for a billion population. It throws up a multi-billion dollar business opportunity for domestic technology players. The eco-system required to support the citizen ID card programme, proposed by the Unique Identification Number Authority of India (UIDAI), is expected to be vast comprising of data collectors/managers, delivery channels, chip designers, smart card manufacturers, application and software providers, system integrators, networking analysts and print companies. Some estimate it will create at least a 100,000 additional jobs in the country in the next three years. An ancillary industry will also come up around this eco-system. The entire ID card project is estimated to be in the range of around Rs 10,000 crore, with the first phase which will cover ultra urban, urban, and semi-urban populations offering a Rs 6,500 crore business opportunity. Companies like TCS and Infosys have confirmed that they will actively bid for the project. TCS has already been working with the government on projects like e-passport, Gujarat police and the defence ministry. "Since it is going to be an open bidding process, we will be bidding for it,'' said a senior official at TCS. "The entire process including the bidding process, deal negotiations and business evaluation, are expected to be transparent. There will not be any conflict of interest for us and therefore we will participate in the bid,'' said a senior official at Infosys Technologies. Some 27 large e-governance projects worth Rs 40,000 crore are currently in the pipeline. After having been badly hit by the global meltdown, many tech leaders have been urging the government to accelerate these projects to induce economic buoyancy and create fresh jobs. The UIDAI comes as a quick response to the industry's call. Som Mittal, president of IT industry body Nasscom, was clearly delighted by the government's move: "The project is a transformational project for the country as it will overlay many underlying projects, creating huge efficiencies for the country leading to enhanced governance and reduced costs. Nasscom has been advocating the need to accelerate IT adoption in the government and this initiative will overhaul and direct the delivery mechanism for public goods and services to intended beneficiaries." Poornima Shenoy, president of the India Semiconductor Association, said smartcard projects will have a major impact on the semicon industry. "As all the government initiatives on smart cards shall require proprietary chipsets, the ASICs (application specific integrated circuit) market is expected to benefit from these applications," she said. Ashok Chandak, director of global sales in semicon company NXP, said that the programme implemented on the contactless smart cards will offer lower cost of ownership to the government and real value to citizens. The ID card could have a life of 10-20 years. (With inputs from Reeba Zachariah) From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 04:09:06 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 04:09:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge In-Reply-To: <6353c690907030948h596569d2tba553564c3d8bb0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907030948h596569d2tba553564c3d8bb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Religious leaders have no right to threaten govts. Anyway, who cares about these. I feel we should have a referendum to find out whether these so-called hoodlums have any backing from the society, for that will be the end of their useless positions and their right to take 'decisions on behalf of the community'. The religious leaders should first go and study their own religious texts and books before making useless comments. And anyways, religious leaders should be thankful we are a liberal democracy, otherwise if we were secular by Western standards, their useless antics would have earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy showed recently by declaring that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear the veil. Where are these leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) The right to existence of people is beyond religion, and people came before religion. And people's rights are more important than such religious rights. Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to accept this HC verdict and annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. And if the govt. wants to appease the religious leaders, they should remember the 1987 scenario, when both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought to be appeased, and what happened after that. From ravig64 at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 05:56:37 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:56:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690907030948h596569d2tba553564c3d8bb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I shall be grateful if someone can explain to me: 1. Difference between 'de criminalizing ' and 'legalising? 2. Now that the HC has read down 377, what is the amendment required by the Govt? except to shift the remaining provisions under 377 to another place as suggested by the HC order itself. But will this impact the provision struck down. 3. I understand the SC can strike down the HC order (which is very strongly argued and hence not easy to strike down, I think.) But beyond going to the SC what is the govt reqired to do? I will thank you for some clear understanding to help me. Best ravi agarwal On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Religious leaders have no right to threaten govts. Anyway, who cares about > these. I feel we should have a referendum to find out whether these > so-called hoodlums have any backing from the society, for that will be the > end of their useless positions and their right to take 'decisions on behalf > of the community'. The religious leaders should first go and study their > own > religious texts and books before making useless comments. And anyways, > religious leaders should be thankful we are a liberal democracy, otherwise > if we were secular by Western standards, their useless antics would have > earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy showed recently by declaring > that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear the veil. Where are these > leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) > > The right to existence of people is beyond religion, and people came before > religion. And people's rights are more important than such religious > rights. > Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to accept this HC verdict and > annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. And if the govt. wants to > appease the religious leaders, they should remember the 1987 scenario, when > both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought to be appeased, and what > happened after that. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 11:47:54 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge Message-ID: <686821.53958.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Mr Aggarwal, I try to reply to your first point: Decriminalizing means something which was earlier criminal/illegal and has now been made non criminal usually by an action not enacted by law. Legalising would mean making something legal by law enacted by an act of Parliament.In the current HC order scenerio means while this section in the statute makes it still illegal/criminal, no crimnal action can be initiated in view of the HC order.If this section is upheld by the SC, it again becomes illegal.While an enactment by Parliament making it legal means there is no requirement of a court order as per se no criminal action can at all be initiated. Regards (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Ravi Agarwal wrote: > From: Ravi Agarwal > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 5:56 AM > Dear all, > I shall be grateful if someone can explain to me: > 1. Difference between 'de criminalizing ' and 'legalising? > 2. Now that the HC has read down 377, what is the amendment > required by the > Govt? except to shift the remaining provisions under 377 to > another place as > suggested by the HC order itself.  But will this > impact the provision struck > down. > 3. I understand the SC can strike down the HC order (which > is very strongly > argued and hence not easy to strike down, I think.) But > beyond going to the > SC what is the govt reqired to do? > > I will thank you for some clear understanding to help me. > > Best > ravi agarwal > > > > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Religious leaders have no right to threaten govts. > Anyway, who cares about > > these. I feel we should have a referendum to find out > whether these > > so-called hoodlums have any backing from the society, > for that will be the > > end of their useless positions and their right to take > 'decisions on behalf > > of the community'. The religious leaders should first > go and study their > > own > > religious texts and books before making useless > comments. And anyways, > > religious leaders should be thankful we are a liberal > democracy, otherwise > > if we were secular by Western standards, their useless > antics would have > > earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy showed > recently by declaring > > that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear the > veil. Where are these > > leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) > > > > The right to existence of people is beyond religion, > and people came before > > religion. And people's rights are more important than > such religious > > rights. > > Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to accept > this HC verdict and > > annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. And > if the govt. wants to > > appease the religious leaders, they should remember > the 1987 scenario, when > > both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought to > be appeased, and what > > happened after that. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sandys at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 11:51:29 2009 From: sandys at gmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:51:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?We_need_source-code_whetting_for_I?= =?windows-1252?q?ndia=92s_e-voting_machines?= Message-ID: http://digitalsarkaar.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/we-need-source-code-whetting-for-indias-e-voting-machines/ Rediff is breaking the story, about possible massive fraud in India’s e-voting machines. Apparently, the Chief Election Commissioner was stunned by a report by Omesh Saigal about the unreliability of the software running on the Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) As previously pointed out, we need a reliable and open voting infrastructure and system in place to check possible voter fraud and election rigging (like Iran possibly). The U.S. elections have been marred by similar problems (popularised in the movie Recount ). It is easy for contractors to get away with substandard software – not because I inherently allege our politicians are hand-in-glove, but because of a simple fact: a bureaucrat cannot understand source code. However there are hundreds of millions of citizens of this country, whose interests are not served by malicious voting systems and who are well qualified to understand these systems. The entire voting apparatus source code should be made public – bureaucrats need to understand that every software will have bugs : that is the nature of programming. In order to save reputation about some bug that might be found in such systems, it is definitely not in our best interest to have such procedures shelved behind red tape. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 12:04:16 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:04:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] My Mother's 22 Rooms Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907032334y658ceb97i5dca7629939ee5be@mail.gmail.com> My Mother's 22 Rooms I cannot sing the old songs, or dream those dreams again - Charlotte Barnard There it is. Huddled among other dolls and a few shreds of cloth. It is wearing a blue dress. I don’t remember what mine wore, for it has been sixteen years since I saw it. It might not be there anymore, but I would like to believe that it is there, invisible to the new occupants of my house. It is a dancing girl made of earth, decorating a corner of my friend’s drawing room. Touch it a little and it will start dancing, moving her neck gracefully. My dancing girl, mother bought it, when I was a child, from a potter selling his stuff on a pavement in Lal Chowk. And sixteen years later, as I speak to you, there is no significant noise outside my room. No guttural voice and no sound of my mother’s U-shaped walker making its presence felt through the small corridor of my house. Mother fell down from her bed again this morning. 23 years ago, in Srinagar, a team of health officials was to arrive at our school. Their aim was to administer cholera vaccines to children. But for that we were supposed to take the written permission of our parents. Back home I told my father and as expected he wrote ‘No’ on my home task diary. I found it very insulting. Tomorrow all my classmates would take the vaccine and sing laurels of their bravery. And me, I would be hidden in some corner, red-faced with shame. It was not acceptable to me. So I erased father’s nay and wrote ‘Yes’ on the diary. Next morning as the needle of the syringe pierced my left arm, I did not even flinch once. I became an instant hero. But as it is with most acts of heroism, I had to pay a price for mine as well. By late afternoon, a lump had formed in my arm. By the time I reached home I was feverish and drenched in sweat. As I pulled off my shoes, mother saw me and in one instant she knew what had happened. It was August and even by Kashmir valley’s standards, it was hot. I flung myself on the bed. Mother came and sat next to me. She gave me a glass of milk and kept her fair arm on my forehead. It felt very soothing and cold; like a spring. I went off to sleep. Next morning as I opened my eyes, the fever was gone. Mother handled the affairs of the house like a seasoned ascetic would control his senses. She knew what was kept where. Rice, coal powder, woollen socks and gloves, soap – she kept a tab on everything. Her daily routine was more or less defined. She would wake up in the wee hours of the morning, wash clothes in the bathroom, sweep and mop the floor of every room and corridor, put burning coal dust in Kangris in winters and ultimately take stock of the kitchen. She did not believe much in spending time in worship. She was not an atheist but her belief was restricted to occasionally folding hands in front of the Shivalinga. Her God was her home and hearth. But mother was in awe of nature. She feared its fury. Sometimes, when a storm blew, she would close all doors and windows and sit in one corner. When she no longer could face it, she would ask my father, “Will this storm stop?” Father would usually try to pacify her, but ultimately he also lost his patience. “What do you think? Would this storm last till the doom’s day?” he would snap at her. But the same meek heart turned into brave heart when any family member struggled with adversity. It was in the mid of 1988 that my father had a mild heart attack. Actually father had a pain in the stomach and an injection prescribed by a gastroenterologist reacted, which led to the attack. Everyone in the family was too shocked to react. But not my mother. She single-handedly took my father to the hospital in an auto rickshaw. At the hospital, mother recalls, a doctor appeared like an angel. He had a black mark on his forehead, a result of praying five times a day. The moment the doctor started examining him, my father vomited. Mother says it was so intense that it went right into the doctor’s shoes. But not once did he raise his brow. He kept on treating my father. By the end of 1989, men like that doctor somehow became rare in Kashmir. One day mother came back from office and she was crying. In the bus someone had tried to help an old Hindu lady in getting down from the bus. Another woman, who was a Muslim, criticised that man saying that the woman he helped was a Hindu and she should have been kicked out of the bus. Mother didn’t know whether what she heard was true or whether it was a nightmare. But what she had heard and seen with her naked eyes was what seemed like holding a mirror in front of Kashmir in a few months time. The time had come, once again, to leave our homeland. The migration began. Salvaging whatever little we could, essentially a few utensils and educational degrees of my college-going sister, we reached Jammu. After spending a couple of nights in a hotel, father hired a room in a marriage house. It was situated in the old city, amidst a bristling market of saris and dupattas. Every now and then marriage ceremonies were solemnised in the marriage house. When the crude ovens, laced with mud and gas cylinders arrived at the house, we would understand that a marriage was taking place that evening. In the ten by ten feet room, ants held a sway. No matter what you put outside, it would be swarmed by ants in a matter of minutes. They appeared in hordes, hundreds of them, attacking every edible item. It was similar to how people would come out on streets in Srinagar, few months before we were forced into exile. Mother obviously could not put up a fight with them, but she always managed to save a bowl of curd from the marauding ants, by keeping it in a basin of water. I always felt that whenever mother took out that bowl of curd, a secret smile would pass her lips. It was like a symbolic victory for her or so I thought. And one night, that smile was also snatched from my mother’s lips. I remember that evening. Somebody was getting married in the marriage house. The entire compound was filled with men, women and children, dressed in shimmering clothes. The stereo with huge speakers played popular Bollywood numbers as some of the guests danced on the tunes. And a few metres away, we had closed ourselves in the room. When the bride was taken away and the noise had eased, there was a knock on our door. Mother opened the door and found a young man standing there. He was holding a plate in his hand. He said that he had been told that there were refugees living here and so he came to offer us some food. Before mother could say something, he handed over the plate and turned back. Mother lifted the cover and I caught a glimpse of the food inside. There was rice, dal and some vegetables. Mother kept on staring at it for some time and then she cried. After this incident, Mother developed a strange habit. She would tell all, whether they cared to listen or not, “ Our house in Kashmir had 22 rooms”. For the next few years, we would keep on shuttling from one place to place, becoming victim of the whims and fancies of landlords. We stayed at various places. After the marriage house, we stayed in a window-less room in a dilapidated lodge, where the number of mosquitoes was probably more than the cells constituting our bodies. Then we rented a single room where we ate, studied, slept, cooked and ate our food as well. Then there was another house. The bathroom there had no door and we had to keep on coughing for obvious reasons. Amidst these episodes of Greek tragedy, mother kept her struggle on. Everyday was a battle. From filling water from a leaking tap to bathing under the tap of an adjacent vacant plot, life threw numerous challenges at us. It was years later that I completed my education somehow and came to Delhi. Few years ago, we bought a 2-bedroom flat in Delhi. But the struggle of Jammu has left a mark on mother. She cannot walk now. Her left leg is paralysed. Sometimes she falls down as she tries to drag her leg. As it happened this morning. She cannot even speak now. Degenerative neurosis, whatever that means. With each passing day, her condition is worsening. I walk on the road. There is a sea of vehicles moving; endless. Sometimes I feel that there are more vehicles than humans in Delhi. And when I cannot bear the noise any longer, I feel like shouting, “Our house in Kashmir had 22 rooms.” http://www.rahulpandita.com/stories/mm22r.html From ravig64 at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 13:35:14 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 13:35:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge In-Reply-To: <686821.53958.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <686821.53958.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Mr Malik, Many thanks for your reply. My question is, if it is not criminal in 377 then what does 'illegal' mean in practice? Where is it deemed illegal, in which law, and what are its implications? I understand that there may be no sanction for marriage, or that gay partnerships may not qualify under various laws which sanction partnerships, or that of adoption etc., but is it the lack of rights to be recognized as a gay couple or is it something more? Also the limited plea was to make decriminalize under 377, which has been achieved by the HC Judgment, so what further amendment is needed by the Govt.? Sorry am confused. Where does 'legality' come in now? thanks ravi On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, A.K. Malik wrote: > > Hi Mr Aggarwal, > I try to reply to your first point: > Decriminalizing means something which was earlier criminal/illegal and has > now been made non criminal usually by an action not enacted by law. > Legalising would mean making something legal by law enacted by an act of > Parliament.In the current HC order scenerio means while this section in the > statute makes it still illegal/criminal, no crimnal action can be initiated > in view of the HC order.If this section is upheld by the SC, it again > becomes illegal.While an enactment by Parliament making it legal means there > is no requirement of a court order as per se no criminal action can at all > be initiated. > Regards > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Ravi Agarwal wrote: > > > From: Ravi Agarwal > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge > > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > > Cc: "sarai list" > > Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 5:56 AM > > Dear all, > > I shall be grateful if someone can explain to me: > > 1. Difference between 'de criminalizing ' and 'legalising? > > 2. Now that the HC has read down 377, what is the amendment > > required by the > > Govt? except to shift the remaining provisions under 377 to > > another place as > > suggested by the HC order itself. But will this > > impact the provision struck > > down. > > 3. I understand the SC can strike down the HC order (which > > is very strongly > > argued and hence not easy to strike down, I think.) But > > beyond going to the > > SC what is the govt reqired to do? > > > > I will thank you for some clear understanding to help me. > > > > Best > > ravi agarwal > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > Religious leaders have no right to threaten govts. > > Anyway, who cares about > > > these. I feel we should have a referendum to find out > > whether these > > > so-called hoodlums have any backing from the society, > > for that will be the > > > end of their useless positions and their right to take > > 'decisions on behalf > > > of the community'. The religious leaders should first > > go and study their > > > own > > > religious texts and books before making useless > > comments. And anyways, > > > religious leaders should be thankful we are a liberal > > democracy, otherwise > > > if we were secular by Western standards, their useless > > antics would have > > > earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy showed > > recently by declaring > > > that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear the > > veil. Where are these > > > leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) > > > > > > The right to existence of people is beyond religion, > > and people came before > > > religion. And people's rights are more important than > > such religious > > > rights. > > > Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to accept > > this HC verdict and > > > annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. And > > if the govt. wants to > > > appease the religious leaders, they should remember > > the 1987 scenario, when > > > both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought to > > be appeased, and what > > > happened after that. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > From dnkashyap at rediffmail.com Sat Jul 4 14:21:15 2009 From: dnkashyap at rediffmail.com (devendera kashyap) Date: 4 Jul 2009 08:51:15 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=28no_subject=29?= Message-ID: <20090704085115.13883.qmail@f5mail-237-206.rediffmail.com> respected frnd the high court judgement does not become the law of the land. only after it has been aproved by the constitution beNch of SC it becomes the law of the land. still parliament can negate it by bringing a constitutional amendment in parliament. in democracy parliament is supreme From dnkashyap at rediffmail.com Sat Jul 4 14:33:15 2009 From: dnkashyap at rediffmail.com (devendera kashyap) Date: 4 Jul 2009 09:03:15 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=28no_subject=29?= Message-ID: <20090704090315.34874.qmail@f5mail-237-210.rediffmail.com> respected frnds yes homosexuality is a disiese, but if we are honest with ourselves no place in world can say that it is free from it. where it is baned people practice it in secret as was done in india. sex is the 2nd human erge after hunger. we have to deal the issue rationaly, and not on religious lines, can church deny that it exists even in them. i am not condemning any religion, but making an statemet of fact. i too am against it, but donot give it a religious flavour. think rationly as to how we can over come this problem collectively From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 4 15:14:25 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 10:44:25 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?We_need_source-code_whetting_for_I?= =?windows-1252?q?ndia=92s_e-voting_machines?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40907040244r2db62bc0kdb18ef794a230826@mail.gmail.com> Now they are talking of mal-functioning e-voting machines. The day is not far when they may talk about the bureaucrat, politician, businessmen nexus about fraudulent citizen ID cards in the same manner. Fingerprints may get fudged, the data may be lost. If Sania Mirza can get a BPL card issued in her name then could a aam aadmi rest assured that his name would not float in some data. The capacity of sub-continental people to misrepresent is legendary. Kasab's case tells us that. The National Database and Registration Authority (NADRA) first fed his data and then possibly erased it. Which could explain the confidence with which people denied his nationality and citizenship. If the data is erased there is little one could do. 1.5 lakh is the figure. And there no national or parliamentary debate on the efficacy of national id cards. Possibly there will be none. Juxtapose 1.5 lakh crore to plan outlay on medical and public health by the central government in 2008- 'The Plan outlay of the Department of Health & Family Welfare (DoHFW) is Rs.15580 crores.' http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2008-09/eb/po.pdf A mere TEN percent of what the GOI intends to spend on i-cards. So what is the message here? what kind of security is more important? From lawrence at altlawforum.org Sat Jul 4 17:37:40 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:37:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge In-Reply-To: References: <686821.53958.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0921F0E3-29A4-4E79-8176-1D62780A106A@altlawforum.org> Hi Ravi I think the best example of the difference would be respect to sex work or regulation of drugs such as marijuana; We could decriminalize the use of marijuana in which case personal possession and use would no longer be punishable but there could still be regulations on sale/ prohibition on use in public spaces etc. On the other hand it could be like Amsterdam where it is legalised, and you can sell/ smoke up anywhere etc. Though the larger point to make with respect to the Delhi high court judgment is that while everyone has been reading it is a judgment that 'merely' decriminalizes homosexuality by reading down 377, I think it would a be a disservice to the imagination of Justice Shah and Muralidhar. If you adopt a narrow technical reading of the judgment and its immediate impact then it is right to say it decriminalizes homosexuality. But if you read the judgment closely it does far more than that, and it opens out the space for the extension of all civil and political rights to sexuality minorities in the future. This is particularly true with respect to their interpretation of 'sexual orientation' being akin to sex in Art 15 of the constitution. If you see Para 105 of the judgment it states the following: 104.We hold that sexual orientation is a ground analogous to sex and that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is not permitted by Article 15. Further, Article 15(2) incorporates the notion of horizontal application of rights. In other words, it even prohibits discrimination of one citizen by another in matters of access to public spaces. In our view, discrimination on the ground of sexual orientation is impermissible even on the horizontal application of the right enshrined under Article 15. If you read the para it would be hard to maintain that the judgment is merely about decriminalization of homosexuality, and it should necessarily be read as extending all rights guaranteed against discrimination to homosexuals as well Lawrence On 04-Jul-09, at 1:35 PM, Ravi Agarwal wrote: > Dear Mr Malik, > > Many thanks for your reply. My question is, if it is not criminal in > 377 > then what does 'illegal' mean in practice? Where is it deemed > illegal, in > which law, and what are its implications? > > I understand that there may be no sanction for marriage, or that gay > partnerships may not qualify under various laws which sanction > partnerships, > or that of adoption etc., but is it the lack of rights to be > recognized as a > gay couple or is it something more? > > Also the limited plea was to make decriminalize under 377, which has > been > achieved by the HC Judgment, so what further amendment is needed by > the > Govt.? Sorry am confused. Where does 'legality' come in now? > > thanks > ravi > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, A.K. Malik > wrote: > >> >> Hi Mr Aggarwal, >> I try to reply to your first point: >> Decriminalizing means something which was earlier criminal/illegal >> and has >> now been made non criminal usually by an action not enacted by law. >> Legalising would mean making something legal by law enacted by an >> act of >> Parliament.In the current HC order scenerio means while this >> section in the >> statute makes it still illegal/criminal, no crimnal action can be >> initiated >> in view of the HC order.If this section is upheld by the SC, it again >> becomes illegal.While an enactment by Parliament making it legal >> means there >> is no requirement of a court order as per se no criminal action >> can at all >> be initiated. >> Regards >> (A.K.MALIK) >> >> >> --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Ravi Agarwal wrote: >> >>> From: Ravi Agarwal >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge >>> To: "Rakesh Iyer" >>> Cc: "sarai list" >>> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 5:56 AM >>> Dear all, >>> I shall be grateful if someone can explain to me: >>> 1. Difference between 'de criminalizing ' and 'legalising? >>> 2. Now that the HC has read down 377, what is the amendment >>> required by the >>> Govt? except to shift the remaining provisions under 377 to >>> another place as >>> suggested by the HC order itself. But will this >>> impact the provision struck >>> down. >>> 3. I understand the SC can strike down the HC order (which >>> is very strongly >>> argued and hence not easy to strike down, I think.) But >>> beyond going to the >>> SC what is the govt reqired to do? >>> >>> I will thank you for some clear understanding to help me. >>> >>> Best >>> ravi agarwal >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Religious leaders have no right to threaten govts. >>> Anyway, who cares about >>>> these. I feel we should have a referendum to find out >>> whether these >>>> so-called hoodlums have any backing from the society, >>> for that will be the >>>> end of their useless positions and their right to take >>> 'decisions on behalf >>>> of the community'. The religious leaders should first >>> go and study their >>>> own >>>> religious texts and books before making useless >>> comments. And anyways, >>>> religious leaders should be thankful we are a liberal >>> democracy, otherwise >>>> if we were secular by Western standards, their useless >>> antics would have >>>> earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy showed >>> recently by declaring >>>> that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear the >>> veil. Where are these >>>> leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) >>>> >>>> The right to existence of people is beyond religion, >>> and people came before >>>> religion. And people's rights are more important than >>> such religious >>>> rights. >>>> Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to accept >>> this HC verdict and >>>> annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. And >>> if the govt. wants to >>>> appease the religious leaders, they should remember >>> the 1987 scenario, when >>>> both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought to >>> be appeased, and what >>>> happened after that. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ravig64 at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 18:05:56 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 18:05:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge In-Reply-To: <0921F0E3-29A4-4E79-8176-1D62780A106A@altlawforum.org> References: <686821.53958.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0921F0E3-29A4-4E79-8176-1D62780A106A@altlawforum.org> Message-ID: Hi Lawrence, This is very helpful, many thanks. It also means that the statements of religions leaders that they will not permit entry to religious places on the basis of sexual orientation as illegal under this judgement, I suppose. Hence is the angst amongst them not only about reading down 377 but also its other implications? If this be the case can it be that the SC agrees partly with the judgement in the matter of criminality but may disagree (theoretically) on other interpretations? Or does one flow into the other and cannot be read separately, since the logic is progressive? best ravi On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Lawrence Liang wrote: > > > Hi Ravi > > > I think the best example of the difference would be respect to sex > work or regulation of drugs such as marijuana; We could decriminalize > the use of marijuana in which case personal possession and use would > no longer be punishable but there could still be regulations on sale/ > prohibition on use in public spaces etc. On the other hand it could be > like Amsterdam where it is legalised, and you can sell/ smoke up > anywhere etc. > > Though the larger point to make with respect to the Delhi high court > judgment is that while everyone has been reading it is a judgment that > 'merely' decriminalizes homosexuality by reading down 377, I think it > would a be a disservice to the imagination of Justice Shah and > Muralidhar. If you adopt a narrow technical reading of the judgment > and its immediate impact then it is right to say it decriminalizes > homosexuality. > > But if you read the judgment closely it does far more than that, and > it opens out the space for the extension of all civil and political > rights to sexuality minorities in the future. This is particularly > true with respect to their interpretation of 'sexual orientation' > being akin to sex in Art 15 of the constitution. > > If you see Para 105 of the judgment it states the following: > > 104.We hold that sexual orientation is a ground analogous to sex > and that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is > not permitted by Article 15. Further, Article 15(2) > incorporates the notion of horizontal application of rights. In > other words, it even prohibits discrimination of one citizen by > another in matters of access to public spaces. In our view, > discrimination on the ground of sexual orientation is > impermissible even on the horizontal application of the right > enshrined under Article 15. > > > If you read the para it would be hard to maintain that the judgment is > merely about decriminalization of homosexuality, and it should > necessarily be read as extending all rights guaranteed against > discrimination to homosexuals as well > > > Lawrence > > > > On 04-Jul-09, at 1:35 PM, Ravi Agarwal wrote: > > > Dear Mr Malik, > > > > Many thanks for your reply. My question is, if it is not criminal in > > 377 > > then what does 'illegal' mean in practice? Where is it deemed > > illegal, in > > which law, and what are its implications? > > > > I understand that there may be no sanction for marriage, or that gay > > partnerships may not qualify under various laws which sanction > > partnerships, > > or that of adoption etc., but is it the lack of rights to be > > recognized as a > > gay couple or is it something more? > > > > Also the limited plea was to make decriminalize under 377, which has > > been > > achieved by the HC Judgment, so what further amendment is needed by > > the > > Govt.? Sorry am confused. Where does 'legality' come in now? > > > > thanks > > ravi > > > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, A.K. Malik > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Hi Mr Aggarwal, > >> I try to reply to your first point: > >> Decriminalizing means something which was earlier criminal/illegal > >> and has > >> now been made non criminal usually by an action not enacted by law. > >> Legalising would mean making something legal by law enacted by an > >> act of > >> Parliament.In the current HC order scenerio means while this > >> section in the > >> statute makes it still illegal/criminal, no crimnal action can be > >> initiated > >> in view of the HC order.If this section is upheld by the SC, it again > >> becomes illegal.While an enactment by Parliament making it legal > >> means there > >> is no requirement of a court order as per se no criminal action > >> can at all > >> be initiated. > >> Regards > >> (A.K.MALIK) > >> > >> > >> --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Ravi Agarwal wrote: > >> > >>> From: Ravi Agarwal > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge > >>> To: "Rakesh Iyer" > >>> Cc: "sarai list" > >>> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 5:56 AM > >>> Dear all, > >>> I shall be grateful if someone can explain to me: > >>> 1. Difference between 'de criminalizing ' and 'legalising? > >>> 2. Now that the HC has read down 377, what is the amendment > >>> required by the > >>> Govt? except to shift the remaining provisions under 377 to > >>> another place as > >>> suggested by the HC order itself. But will this > >>> impact the provision struck > >>> down. > >>> 3. I understand the SC can strike down the HC order (which > >>> is very strongly > >>> argued and hence not easy to strike down, I think.) But > >>> beyond going to the > >>> SC what is the govt reqired to do? > >>> > >>> I will thank you for some clear understanding to help me. > >>> > >>> Best > >>> ravi agarwal > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Religious leaders have no right to threaten govts. > >>> Anyway, who cares about > >>>> these. I feel we should have a referendum to find out > >>> whether these > >>>> so-called hoodlums have any backing from the society, > >>> for that will be the > >>>> end of their useless positions and their right to take > >>> 'decisions on behalf > >>>> of the community'. The religious leaders should first > >>> go and study their > >>>> own > >>>> religious texts and books before making useless > >>> comments. And anyways, > >>>> religious leaders should be thankful we are a liberal > >>> democracy, otherwise > >>>> if we were secular by Western standards, their useless > >>> antics would have > >>>> earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy showed > >>> recently by declaring > >>>> that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear the > >>> veil. Where are these > >>>> leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) > >>>> > >>>> The right to existence of people is beyond religion, > >>> and people came before > >>>> religion. And people's rights are more important than > >>> such religious > >>>> rights. > >>>> Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to accept > >>> this HC verdict and > >>>> annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. And > >>> if the govt. wants to > >>>> appease the religious leaders, they should remember > >>> the 1987 scenario, when > >>>> both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought to > >>> be appeased, and what > >>>> happened after that. > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >>> city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>> with > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: > >>>> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >>> city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>> with subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 18:42:39 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 18:42:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] National Childhood Disability Conference, September 4-6, Bombay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/national-childhood-disability-conference-sept Excerpts: Workshops on Autism, Pediatric Audiology and Gait Analysis conducted by faculty from overseas. No spot registrations. Venue: K. D. Ambani Hospital, Andheri From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 20:48:45 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:48:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge In-Reply-To: <6353c690907030948h596569d2tba553564c3d8bb0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907030948h596569d2tba553564c3d8bb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970907040818n302a7389v7dba63e0f40d9be3@mail.gmail.com> Many a political chieftain is happy with this controversy though(which might help him take a short break to digress from other burning issues), questions about near universally recognized right for one to have a sexual orientation different from the patterns approved by religious establishments,seem to be fundamental to the very existence of democracy. Seen that way, Delhi High Court favouring legalizing homosexuality by scrapping Sec 377of the IPC is a significant step that warrants unequivocal support by all secular and democratic forces. Leaderships of political parties who claim to champion the cause of Social Justice making diatribes against ending discrimination on the ground of sexual orientation ,would have been quite paradoxical anywhere else ,except where backwardness of mindsets are celebrated as culture and virtue. In a society which by and large denies to its mature citizens even the right of choosing his or her heterosexual partner in love and marriage, and which instead , rather meddles with such things ostensibly to protect the honour and morality of all, recognition to sexual orientation/ self determination as a desirable objective is hard to come through. Unless voices of all genuine democratic forces emerge forcefully articulated, the Delhi HC opinion against the colonial vestige (Sec 377, IPC) will continue to be viewed anything but sensible. More than anything else, struggles focusing the man made and authoritarian ethics of human bondings have caused widening of the horizon of human rights ; these in fact, have made such criminal laws obsolete in the countries of their origins than any amount of condescension by the ruling oligarchy or the Catholic Church . These laws had to die their natural deaths just like the Victorian concept of morality, though authoritarian structures everywhere still continue to invoke their residual power in ideological terms. This is a virtual testing time for the so called progressives to take positions showing their real commitment to freedom and dignity of individual.on the one hand, and ending the melodrama in service of real politicking, on the other. Regards, (Venu) On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Cabinet split over order legalising homosexuality > > *CNN-IBN* > > *New Delhi:* They might have won the battle in the court, but gays and > lesbians in India are still not welcome in the temples, mosques or churches. > The Catholic Christian groups in country are set to challenge the Delhi High > Court verdict in the Supreme Court. > > Reverend Stephen Alathara of the Kerala Catholic Bishop Council says, "We > have been assured by Government Ministers that homosexuality will not be > legalised. We will go to the Supreme Court against the verdict along with > other catholic groups." > > And it's not the just the church. Opposing homosexuality is one issue that > has brought all religious leaders together. > > Hindu Godman Baba Ramdev and Muslim Ulema from the Deoband have already > cautioned the Government against legalising homosexuality. > > "We will make sure that the Government will not bring any changes in the > law," says a member of the famous Lucknow seminary of Firangi Mahal. > > As decibels rise, the Government zeal to change the law is diminishing. A > high-level meeting of the Home Minister, Health Minister and the Law > Minister at the North Bloc failed to reach a consensus on the future course > of action. > > "We three ministers met to analyse Section 377 and we have analysed it. Now > we will submit a small note on the same to the Prime Minister for > appropriate action to be taken," says Law Minister *Veerappa > Moily* > . > > There is no consensus among the ministers and if the debate reaches > Parliament, the UPA Government will be at the receiving end from the BJP as > well as parties like the RJD and the *Samajwadi > Party*, > which are also taken bitterly opposed to gay rights. > > *(With inputs from Seemi Pasha and Aasim Khan in New Delhi)* > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 21:12:11 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge Message-ID: <831977.2893.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Agarwal, Section 377 of Indian Penal Code says that anyone having carnal sex against the law of nature shall be punishable with....( Exact language may be a little different).The court has struck down this for consenting adults doing this in private being violative of Art 14,16 and 21 of the Constitution.( I have still not read the judgement,this is what I remember from news reports)While for minors it is still there as they are not supposed to give consent before being 18 years of age.Criminality word is usually given for offences under the IPC.The consenting adults can be Male-Male or Male-Female. Such an act even with one's own wife was punishable.What Govt is required to do legally is to remove/delete this from IPC and include the balance part of carnal sex with minors under Sec 376 -Rape. Illegal in practice would means something done against any law enacted by an Act of Parliament or against any Rules made under any law.Thus if one has an 11 month's lease as tenant with a landlord and the tenant does not give vacant possession after 11 months to landlord who does not extend the lease, then he is committing an illegal act but mind it, it is not criminal.There may be hundreds of things like this-possessing foreign exchange more than the specified limit etc. No further benefits of any sorts accrue to such couples as marriage, adoption,inheritance etc.The only concession they would be getting is that they cannot now be proscuted for any such act in private.And still there is confusion whether the Delhi HC judgement is valid only for Delhi or for all over India. Normally the territorial jurisdiction of an HC is the State. With kind regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Ravi Agarwal wrote: > From: Ravi Agarwal > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement emerge > To: "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 1:35 PM > Dear Mr Malik, > > Many thanks for your reply. My question is, if it is not > criminal in 377 then what does 'illegal' mean in > practice? Where is it deemed illegal, in which law, and what > are its implications? > > > I understand that there may be no sanction for marriage, or > that gay partnerships may not qualify under various laws > which sanction partnerships, or that of adoption etc., but > is it the lack of rights to be recognized as a gay couple or > is it something more? > > > Also the limited plea was to make decriminalize under 377, > which has been achieved by the HC Judgment, so what further > amendment is needed by the Govt.? Sorry am confused.  Where > does 'legality' come in now? > > > thanks > ravi > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, > A.K. Malik > wrote: > > > > Hi Mr Aggarwal, > >                I try to reply to your first > point: > > Decriminalizing means something which was earlier > criminal/illegal and has now been made non criminal usually > by an action not enacted by law. > > Legalising would mean making something legal by law enacted > by an act of Parliament.In the current HC order scenerio > means while this section in the statute makes it still > illegal/criminal, no crimnal action can be initiated in view > of the HC order.If this section is upheld by the SC, it > again becomes illegal.While an enactment by Parliament > making it legal means there is no requirement of a  court > order as per se no criminal action can at all be initiated. > > > Regards > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Ravi Agarwal > wrote: > > > > > From: Ravi Agarwal > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Voices against HC Judgement > emerge > > > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 5:56 AM > > > Dear all, > > > I shall be grateful if someone can explain to me: > > > 1. Difference between 'de criminalizing ' and > 'legalising? > > > 2. Now that the HC has read down 377, what is the > amendment > > > required by the > > > Govt? except to shift the remaining provisions under > 377 to > > > another place as > > > suggested by the HC order itself.  But will this > > > impact the provision struck > > > down. > > > 3. I understand the SC can strike down the HC order > (which > > > is very strongly > > > argued and hence not easy to strike down, I think.) > But > > > beyond going to the > > > SC what is the govt reqired to do? > > > > > > I will thank you for some clear understanding to help > me. > > > > > > Best > > > ravi agarwal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Religious leaders have no right to threaten > govts. > > > Anyway, who cares about > > > > these. I feel we should have a referendum to find > out > > > whether these > > > > so-called hoodlums have any backing from the > society, > > > for that will be the > > > > end of their useless positions and their right to > take > > > 'decisions on behalf > > > > of the community'. The religious leaders > should first > > > go and study their > > > > own > > > > religious texts and books before making useless > > > comments. And anyways, > > > > religious leaders should be thankful we are a > liberal > > > democracy, otherwise > > > > if we were secular by Western standards, their > useless > > > antics would have > > > > earned them the ire of the state (as Sarkozy > showed > > > recently by declaring > > > > that Muslim women would not be allowed to wear > the > > > veil. Where are these > > > > leaders then to raise their voice? In toilets?) > > > > > > > > The right to existence of people is beyond > religion, > > > and people came before > > > > religion. And people's rights are more > important than > > > such religious > > > > rights. > > > > Therefore, the govt. has the responsibility to > accept > > > this HC verdict and > > > > annul the IPC 377 which prohibits homosexuality. > And > > > if the govt. wants to > > > > appease the religious leaders, they should > remember > > > the 1987 scenario, when > > > > both the Muslim and Hindu communities were sought > to > > > be appeased, and what > > > > happened after that. > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sat Jul 4 21:58:33 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 21:58:33 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fake Encounters Message-ID: <975864.47382.qm@web94703.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Bastards in uniform. No match against Expert. And always anxious to prove their might using lathis and guns. As if, being powerful mandates use of force on powerless. The case of Ranbir Singh. Must have read on news. Every other day, we see cases of molestation, fake encounter etc. And police weilding lathis over innocent. As usual to keep force going, such acts are encouraged and defended withoutn any unconditional appology. If the entire story by DIG, SSP is true, a few questions remain unanswered. a. What provoked a guy without a past criminal record to Snatch a revolver and run, was it that he had his own, or was he being implicated under the lathi raaj? May be they got into an altercation, and a scuffle as a result, thence he had to run. b. Under such circumstances what provoked a head on encounter? Was there any threat to anybody's life or any warrant? Why did the department take the constable's words so seriously, and who were the men responsible for shooting orders? Is dehradun police not adequately equipped with interceptors etc.? May be he resisted, may be he asked for the kind a treatment a person deserves, and he was made a terorist. Wonder when all of us shall meet such deaths, as branded terorists. For example mobile theft business, invariably, the computer complaint is lodged after quite sometime, hours, I'd say, by that time presumably those who could not come in time the operation is done. For example, in mourice nagar area evn after a series of thefts in identifyiable pattern and densities in colleges, police could neither prevent recurrance, nor could crime branch recover a single mobile. Many a times police men find it difficult to accept the man in front is familiar with the 'road', and is looking into their eyes. Blatantly inabbriated, a little more explicit than drunk, what does it matter if people call these men MAMU's. They'd rather be Goons and retain their only claim to fame. I do not say Ranbir was right or he was wrong. I say blatantly defending your lower officials can not be tolerated. And then if somebody even a senior citizen is unwilling and wants to reach inside any office or morgue, Kick him, and beat him, beat slim boys, men and women, but dare not take a head on with experts who have mastered the arts of Gun, empty hands or Sticks, it'd be lethal. After all, jitne jiyenge, utna, salaami! An Mba may be corrupt, but is intelligent enough to avoid an encounter, explicitly, who after all lodges an FIR against Forces, armed mob, what is use in such a blatant support. And ranbir was not a political goon, no need to take his cause. In my lingo, like thousand others, he's murdered, not only by singh, but the entire Police Department, and by the First Lady, who's presence, gave an alibi, and her ignorance, which hurt the conscience of the society. What happens to a deaD man is not my concern that much, it seems pre-determined, inspite of media, thousands other go undetected. I'll pose one question, in such a scenario, with automatic armed men, does arms act have any social significance? The state a silent spectre, and these men, not officers on duty,armed hoodlums, going on state-armed rampage. Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From sudeep.ks at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 00:15:45 2009 From: sudeep.ks at gmail.com (Sudeep K S) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 00:15:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mayavati and her statues.. (thanks to Insight) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mayavati and her statues *“She is spending Rs 1000 crore on establishing statues of elephants and herself. Can there be something more shameful than this in Indian politics,” * he asked. *“Of what use will be the statues in UP. The Rs 1000 crore could have helped wipe out poverty of thousands of people, provide basic amenities and education.."* he said, addressing a meeting to thank voters of his constituency Sivaganga. Behenji is in news again. Prabin, Kufr and RW react to PC in defence of Mayavati, and Anu counters it: *"..this from the leader of a party which has named universities, museums, planetariums, zoos, sanctuaries, sanatoriums, hospitals, art galleries, theatres, dams, power projects, schools, colleges, awards, streets, highways, bridges, poverty alleviation schemes, employment schemes, farmer support schemes, housing schemes, health schemes, loan schemes, airports, railway stations, bus stations, sanitation schemes, social security schemes, industrial townships, parks, elephants and tigers and other faunae, educational scholarships and fellowships, research grants, stadia, gyms, traffic junctions, office buildings etc after members of one family. with public money.."*, says Kufr. [Read complete post: *A cure for that Madness* ] * * * *"What is missing in such ‘common sense’ perceptions is that Mayawati along with Kanshi Ram, like all innovators and path breakers, has been an iconoclast of the highest order. Between the two of them, they have created for the first time in Indian history a successful party representing some of the poorest and socially ostracized masses of the country. Like it or not, it is an unprecedented achievement.."* *"..It is possible that she may gain a popular following by installation of these statues. It is possible too that this may boomerang. Even in the latter case, it is certain that she shall leave behind powerful symbols that will inspire future social struggles. In either case, it is a political advance for dalit and alternative politics..*", goes *a reader's words* . * * * *Why I am Proud of the Statues* , writes * Prabin* on *Round table at Insight young voices* . * * * *Anu* disagrees with all three of them. "..*not because I don’t value, the in the face attitude and literally in their lives -life size statues reminding the upper castes that times are a changing, no not at all, I love it. I just happen to want more, much much more from her.."* (*I disagree* ). * * * *Tailpiece*: There were expected expressions of shock when I said I'd rather want Mayavati as PM [See: *Election time..*]. Another friend said while on a visit to Lucknow earlier this year: "*she is making statues of herself probably because she knows nobody would do it after her death.*" I ask, when she knows that -- and you and me also know it -- how can we blame her for making those statues?] [Image courtesy: Insight ] [posted on http://sudeepsdiary.blogspot.com ] From anoopkheri at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 01:44:22 2009 From: anoopkheri at gmail.com (anoop kumar) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 01:44:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why I am Proud of the Statues Message-ID: *Why I am Proud of the Statues* * Mayawati’s purpose will be defeated only when Dalits are led to believe that the statues and the memorials were inconsequential.* Written by Prabin Majhi & posted at Round Table ( a blog of Insight young voices magazine) Is it sheer foolishness, narcissism and irresponsibility of Mayawati to spend hundreds of crores from the state coffers on bronze and marble? The opposition and the media seem to think so. Could it be something more than plain self-aggrandizement? I am going to backtrack a little. Stating his opposition to territorial constituency, Ambedkar warned, “To the members of the Legislature it is more often than not that his class is his skin and the constituency is a shirt, which it is unnecessary to say is one degree removed than the skin”. Interestingly he observed that the same wouldn’t be true for an Untouchable member of legislature if he were elected from a reserved joint electorate. There is no paradox here. As it turns out, the Dalit representative behaves so because majority of the electorate who decided his fate are Hindus, not Dalits. And, in realpolitik, he is not just a representative of the majority to the Legislature but also of the party to the majority. Unfortunately, since it is a Hindu majority electorate any candidate representing the Hindu party wins. This contrivance arm-twists the Dalit representative to betray his caste, and thereby, the purpose of reservation. Even though the case for separate electorate was given a repelling name “Communal Award”, nothing in the proposal barred the nationalist parties to contest these separate constituencies. But as long as the Hindu voters and the Untouchable voters had conflicting or even separate interests, parties solely representing the Untouchables would win. Without separate electorate, it would take the genius of the founders of BSP to arrive at such a possibility, half a century later. Even since Poona Pact, it had not been any more difficult than finding a loyalist for Congress to appropriate Dalit political representation. Other parties too have done that. And it continued as long as the Legislature was dominated by a couple of political parties combined. The votes of the Dalits in a reserved but mixed electorate, where they are minority, would only be decisive; if 1) there were too many candidates to divide the Hindu majority vote and 2) Dalits voted as a political block. Emergence of Backward Castes Parties was instrumental in dividing the Hindu majority vote block. It must have been obvious to the founders of BSP that consolidation of Dalit votes had to be expedited. For BSP – and for the Dalits – there was nothing more inspiring than Ambedkar. With the caste-Hindu votes already divided, the nationalist parties scurried for the Dalit and minority votes. Since the ease of nominating and electing a candidate of loyalist predisposition never helped them to create or tolerate a formidable Dalit leader of mass appeal, Ambedkar was a fallback option. However there was a crucial difference. While Ambedkar’s picture adorned the walls and billboards and mouthpieces of nationalist parties, noticeably but not prominently, BSP cadres went a step ahead and unveiled Ambedkar statues in Dalit localities and nearest public places, often with the contribution of the locals, notwithstanding the chagrin, objection or even resistance of the Hindus. This political battlefield was not imagined before. Outbidding BSP on Ambedkar legacy would have cost the national parties the interest of the Hindu majority and dwarfed their own idols – Nehru-Gandhis, Ram etc. So I believe, what is disconcerting to the political parties about the statues that Mayawati unveiling and the Memorials she is constructing is not the wastage of precious resource - there are a lot many instances of govt. squandering revenues and tax payers money - but the fact that by doing so she is fortifying a political space which will be inaccessible for them for a long time. The space she is creating for the Dalit icons, if not opposed and embroiled into some sort of controversy, will not only be a testimony of Dalit pride but also an indictment of Hindu parties of their indifference to Dalits. And by creating such grandiose structures with huge expenses Mayawati is ensuring BSP is not outfoxed in its own political battlefield in future by those who are crying wolf now. Mayawati’s purpose will be defeated only when Dalits are led to believe that the statues and the memorials were inconsequential. * To read our Dalit youth Magazine Insight Young Voices pls visit http://insightyv.com/ For our Magazine Archive pls visit http://archive.insightyv.com/ For our team blog Round Table pls visit http://blog.insightyv.com/ * http://blog.insightyv.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 04:06:00 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 04:06:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ayodhya, 6 December 1992: An Account Message-ID: Hope you all read the article, and give your own views, particularly as the Liberhan Commission has submitted its report now afte 17 years, and the culprits of this act and the repercussions after that still roam free. Article from Tehelka: *‘Advani Looked Disturbed... Mouth Gaping Open’* *He saw each dome of the Babri Masjid fall one by one. Ayodhya’s sky was all smoke and fire. A first-hand account* *PRASHANT PANJIAR * *Photographer* [image: image] *Men of another god* Karsewaks demolish the domes of the Babri Masjid in 1992 *Photos:*PRASHANT PANJIAR/INDIA TODAY ON DECEMBER 5, 1992, I was in Lucknow covering LK Advani’s rally. All BJP leaders had been doing a yatra across UP, and *India Today *had asked me to follow him. That night, after the speeches subsided, all the journalists dispersed. Something told me to stay. I followed Advani after the rally and landed up at Kalyan Singh’s house. I was the only photographer there. They let me in. All the top BJP leaders — Atal Behari Vajpayee, Murli Manohar Joshi — were present, meeting inside a room. I could sense the tension in the air. When Advani stepped out at midnight, I casually asked what time he’d leave for Ayodhya the next day. “Right now,” he replied. Suddenly Vajpayee emerged, headed for New Delhi. Something wasn’t as they had expected. I called my reporter colleague and we rushed out too. In Ayodhya, we traced Advani at Mahant Paramhans’ ashram meeting with Vinay Katiyar from the Bajrang Dal, Ashok Singhal from the VHP and HV Seshadri from the RSS. We learned that the karsewaks were completely determined to bring down the mosque. I followed Advani as he left the ashram. Along with other BJP and VHP leaders, he arrived at the platform facing the disputed shrine to review arrangements for symbolic pujas which were to commence at 11:30am. Chants of *Jai Shri Ram* had begun. 200 meters away, a stage had been set up on an open terrace in a building called the Ram Katha Kunj. Advani walked to the dais. I followed. From the edge of the terrace, diagonally, I could only see the domes of the Babri Masjid, but nothing beyond and below. All the Sangh leaders — Uma Bharti, Sadhvi Ritambara, Vijay Raje Scindia, MM Joshi, Seshadri, Advani, Pramod Mahajan — were on the stage. Somehow they thought I was a VHP photographer so they let me stay. Most other photographers were at the puja tents. Little did they know that RSS sewaks had already been appointed to stop them from clicking the moment the demolition began. Back on the stage, Advani and Seshadri looked nervous. The pujas began; so did the speeches. At around 11:30am people started climbing the domes. Photographers started clicking. The karsewaks pounced on them. They were pushed into a room and locked up. Those who resisted were beaten. “We’ll break your legs if you try to come out,” they were told. I was the only photographer who had a clear view of the domes. Through the lens, I could see men with iron rods beating on a dome. There was laughter on the stage. Suddenly, a larger group of people appeared on the top of the dome, and it looked like the beginnings of a serious attack. At this point, I turned towards the leaders. I could see the faces of Advani and Seshadri. They looked disturbed. A little later, I would see them in front of the stage wide-eyed, with their mouths gaping open. Around them, the other leaders on stage looked pleased with themselves. It seemed that Advani was trying to signal to the other VHP leaders – ‘Enough, now call them down.’ But the others weren’t satisfied and wanted ‘a little more’. This was when I began to understand the urgency of the previous night in Lucknow. I think the BJP leaders received information that the karsewaks weren’t going to listen to them. Vajpayee rushed to Delhi to damage control. Advani rushed to Ayodhya early and Kalyan Singh stayed in Lucknow. I think Advani had been promised by the Ram Janambhoomi movement that they’d create a ruckus but ensure the mosque is not demolished. But this doesn’t absolve Advani of culpability. Meanwhile, the others were laughing in great delight. When the first dome began to crack, there were loud cheers from Uma Bharati, Sadhvi Ritambara and Scindia. They egged on the karsewaks with chants of *“Ek Dhaka Aur Do, Babri Masjid Tod Do”.* By this time, I received information that most of the other photographers had been beaten up. I realised that I was the only one who could photograph the domes falling. I knew I had to be careful. By mid-day, the domes were being attacked with full force. I saw people walking away from the Masjid carrying long pillars on their head. At one point, I overheard Advani ask Pramod Mahajan to go ‘check what was going on’. Advani never left the stage, but all the other leaders were doing trips back and forth. Mahajan came back, and I overheard again. “Nothing can be done. They’ve tied ropes from behind. They will pull down the domes.” It got hotter by mid-afternoon. I had been there the entire day without food or water. I remember sitting on a chair at one point, my head falling in a slump. A swami came up to me and asked, “Why is your head down? Are you not happy (about the demolition)?” By 4:30pm, two of the domes were gone. I shot the sequence. Initially there had been a lot of chaos but as the operation progressed it seemed to be a systematic demolition, one dome after the other. Some of the photographers who had been beaten up had managed to escape and come to the stage. I borrowed a longer lens from one of them. His camera had been smashed and he was too shocked to shoot. With the longer lens, I shot the last dome as it fell. I saw it tilt, and remain titled for a second until it smashed on the ground. A cloud of dust rose to fill the empty air. The sight of that last dome, titled in mid-air, about to fall, remains a striking image. There was complete jubilation on the stage. Soon, I saw the city’s horizon pierced with spirals of smoke. An acharaya said into the mike, “Look at these Muslims, they are burning their own homes to malign us.” The karsewaks went berserk. The killing began. The sky was all smoke and fire. A young woman police officer came to the Rama Katha Kunj aghast. She said the entire town was out of control. She told me about two photographers – Nitin Rai and Pablo Bartholomew, who the karsewaks were trying to lynch. She saved them by saying she’s arresting them. ‘The Muslims are burning their homes to malign us,’ said an acharya, and the karsewaks went berserk When I came down from the stage, all I could see were logs of wood, road blocks, fire, people brandishing sticks and rods. By 7:30pm most journalists escaped from Ayodhya. I too managed to get into a car and head to Faizabad, where we were staying. I returned later next day to photograph the aftermath. The hillock where the mosque stood was now covered with pink tents. The karsewaks had begun constructing the makeshift temple. Seventeen years after the demolition, it isn’t the falling of the domes that has left a lasting impression. Rather, it was the acharya’s words as the smoke spiraled from Muslim homes that remains the most defining moment. The demolition of a mosque can be part of the politics of hatred, but what stopped Advani from walking up to the same microphone? One appeal from him to stop the killing would have saved many lives. The lack of that was the most defining thing for me. It was the complete absence of courage. *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 27, Dated July 11, 2009* From justjunaid at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 06:13:13 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 06:13:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Queer-Friendly Islamic Hermeneutics Message-ID: In view of the current debate about 377 etc, this may come handy. http://www.isim.nl/files/review_21/review_21-32.pdf Junaid From karimnonvore at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 10:11:41 2009 From: karimnonvore at gmail.com (karimnanvore karim) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:11:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New Monthly magazine from Kashmir Message-ID: Dear friends i am sening a link for the new monthly magazine Conveyor from kashmir. http://www.conveyormagazine.com/ From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 12:55:32 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:55:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20090704090315.34874.qmail@f5mail-237-210.rediffmail.com> References: <20090704090315.34874.qmail@f5mail-237-210.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970907050025w52e6d86fj4a2d6a19194d124e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Devendra Kashyap, May I request you to go a little further in explaining your view that homosexuality is a disease? Again, what would you think about the transgendered people? Is it biologically and socially imperative for every human to be perfectly fitting to the category of either man or woman, before being qualified as 'healthy'? Regards, Venu On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 2:33 PM, devendera kashyap wrote: >      respected frnds >   yes homosexuality is a disiese, but if we are honest with ourselves no place in world can say that it is free from it. where it is baned people practice it in secret as was done in india. sex is the 2nd human erge after hunger. we have to deal the issue rationaly, and not on religious lines, can church deny that it exists even in them. i am not condemning any religion, but making an statemet of fact. i too am against it, but donot give it a religious flavour. think rationly as to how we can over come this problem collectively > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From kiccovich at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 13:03:01 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 00:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: H-ASIA: CFP India Today: An Encyclopedia of Life in the Republic Message-ID: <147308.6902.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I thought it might be interesting for someone on the list best francesca francesca recchia kiccovich at yahoo.com it +39 338 166 3648 iq +964 (0) 750 7085 681 http://www.veleno.tv/bollettini H-ASIA July 3, 2009 Call for contributors: India Today: An Encyclopedia of Life in the Republic (second call) *********************************************************************** From: Arnold Kaminsky SECOND CALL FOR CONTRIBUTORS INDIA TODAY: AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF LIFE IN THE REPUBLIC Edited by Arnold P. Kaminsky and Roger D. Long We are seeking additional contributors to the forthcoming encyclopedia "India Today: Life in the Republic" to be completed this summer and published early next year by ABC-CLIO press. The encyclopedia is one of the series of "Life in the Republic" initiated by Greenwood Press, and it is aimed at the high school and undergraduate student--although we are hoping it will be of interest to the general reader as well. We would like to invite contributor for the following entries to the encyclopedia. In the attached list you will find the list of entries for which we are seeking contributors with a suggested word length. At the same time, we are open to suggestions for other entries which are not listed but which you feel should be included and which you would like to write. We hope you will look over the list of entries and we would be very grateful to you for any contribution you could make. Payment for writing any entries will be made by the publishers when the manuscript is almost finished which we anticipate to be early autumn. Thank-you very much and we very much hope to be working with you. Please contact Roger Long at rlong at emich.edu. 250 Words: Ahmedabad; Basu, Jyoti; Bhakra Nangal Dam; Holidays; Lalit Kala Akademi, Maldives; Patna; Sahitya Academy; Singh, Vishwanath Pratap// 500 Words: Agra; Air India; Aksai Chin; Automobile Industry; Bahajan Samaj Party; Baroda; Biotechnology Revolution; Central Reserve Police Force, Clothing, Commonwealth, Relations with; Energy Policy; Handicrafts; Harayana; Infosys Industries; Insurance: Internet; Kanpur;  Madhya Pradesh; Maritime Commerce (including river system and navigation); Marriage and Divorce; Mental Health Care; Mineral Resources; National Awards; New Delhi; Other Backward Classes; Patil, Pratibha Devisingh; Pollution; Publishing; Refugees; Sarkaria  Commission; Socialist Parties; Times of India; United News of India; Uttarakhand (Uttaranchal) ; Vishwa Hindu Prasad//1,000 Words: Affirmative Action (See Mandal Commission); Allahabad; Bangladesh, Relations with; Bhutan; Bihar; Central Bureau of Investigation; Chennai; Communications and Infastructure; Communist Parties; Education, Women’s;  Elections of 2009; Gandhi, Priyanka (Wadera); Great Britain, Relations with; Indian Administrative Services; Janata Dal; Judicial System and Courts; Manipur; Meghalya; Mizorum; Nagaland; Premji, Hasham; Public Expenditure; Scheduled Castes and Tribes;  Science and Scientists; Space Program; States Reorganization Commission; Tribal Peoples; Tripura//1,500 Words:  Congress Party//2,000 Words:  All India Services; Andhra Pradesh; Banking; Gujarat; Hindustani Language; Insurgency, Terrorism and National Security (including internal security); Literature, Literary Awards (national and regional)//2,500 Words:  Constitution; Industry (see also Economy); Information Technology; Sports; Theater//3,000 Words : Armed Forces//5,000 Words: Christianity, Environment, European Union, Relations with. Arnold Kaminsky California State University Long Beach Roger D. Long Eastern Michigan University ******************************************************************         To post to  H-ASIA  simply send your message to:                                   For holidays or short absences send post to:                 with message:                         SET H-ASIA NOMAIL        Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL        H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL:    http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 13:17:30 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:17:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Article on Salwa Judum : How not to fight Naxalites Message-ID: *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *special report * *No Place To Call Their Own* *Chhattisgarh’s tribals are fleeing their homes and bountiful natural resources to escape both the Salwa Judum and Naxals, reports **ANJALI LAL GUPTA* [image: image] *Leaves little* A Koya woman looks at the remains of her hut after forest rangers destroyed it *Photos:* SRIKANTH KOLARI/ACTIONAID NOT-SO-OLD Bhimaiya, 60-yearold Charma, 10-year-old Madkam Ramesh, 60-year-old Madkam Bimai, four villagers from Regadgatha village, 35-year-old Sodeganga, the 18-year-old-girl Sodejogi, a 20-year-old unmarried son, someone’s married daughter…” The Koya tribals we met one warm afternoon reeled off an amazing list of numbers and names of relatives and neighbours allegedly killed by the Salwa Judum. One after the other, these Koyas, who had fled to Andhra Pradesh from neighbouring Chhattisgarh, recounted the horror that had transpired after the creation of the militia. Judum, as Chhattisgarh tribals call it, is a squad aimed at eliminating Maoists. Allegedly supported by the government, it recruits civilians, mostly tribals, arms them and makes them fight Maoists, aka Naxalites. Naxalites have been leading an armed movement in this area for over 30 years. Their aim is to overthrow the government and the local traders who they hold responsible for the economic exploitation of the tribals. In the bid to counter Naxalites, human rights abuses became rampant. Tribal men, women and children who refuse to leave their homes and relocate to government-run camps are either branded Naxalites or Naxalite supporters and are hunted down and killed. Joga, a 60-year-old man from Regadgatha village of Dantewada district describes being in the middle of the lethal tug of war between Naxalites and the Salwa Judum, “People from our villages are forcibly taken to the camps. Once in camps, Naxalites come and kill us.” In each of the four villages we visited in Khammam district of Andhra Pradesh (Andhra Pradesh), tribal after tribal told us that staying alive back home had become an ordeal. Judum members first came to meet Regadgatha residents in 2005 and ordered them to shift to government camps. Villagers did not want to anger Naxalites or leave their homes. So they appointed a few among themselves to keep vigil from high ground. If Judum members were seen approaching, they would blow a buffalo horn to warn the others. Everyone would then run into the jungle. Women would pick up infants and run with halfcooked meals in their hands. Youth would carry the old and the sick on their cots. “Because they had to flee, three pregnant women had to deliver their babies in pits,” says 40-year-old Muchki Gangi. After the Judum’s first visit, over 100 households in Regadgatha and four adjoining villages were encircled, doused in petrol and burnt twice. Four villagers were allegedly shot dead. More would have died had they not escaped. Driven further into the jungles, with rice and utensils in short supply, families would build new huts. But there too they feared the sudden arrival of Salwa Judum. For several months they lived in fear of being attacked. Kai Deva, a 30-year-old tribal man, was caught in the jungle by the Judum. He was brutally beaten with a rifle butt, which broke a rib. He was about to be shot when he managed to convince them that he did not belong to Regadgatha. “He shows telltale signs of third degree torture. He is frail and weak,” explains Haneef, a medical practitioner from Sitara Association, who works amongst displaced tribal families. Salwa Judum members and Special Police Officers would accuse tribal families of giving Naxalites food. “Naxalites would come calling after Salwa Judum held meetings with us. Sodeganga’s 35-year-old nephew was killed by them because he met with Judum members,” states Joga. Naxalites have never baulked at the murder of suspected government supporters. [image: image] Uprooted Adma and his family in their makeshift hut in Guttani village, AP [image: image] Forest range officials in AP demolish the huts of tribal Chhattisgarh refugees [image: image] At a rare government-supported residential school in AP, child refugees from Chhattisgarh inch back towards normalcy [image: image] A Koya tribal refugee from Pelisherma village, Chhattisgarh Hard statistics of tribals displaced by the conflict are difficult to come by, as the tribals are often too nervous to reveal themselves. According to a 2008 Human Rights Watch report, an estimated 65,000 villagers have fled to the adjoining states of Maharashtra, Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Nearly 50,000 have settled in Andhra Pradesh, mostly in Warangal, Karimnagar, Vishakapatnam, Khammam and east and west Godavari districts. Many made the journey to Andhra Pradesh on foot. Adhumaya, 26- year-old mother of a four-year-old disabled girl, walked from Kanaiguda village in Chhattisgarh to Guttani village in Andhra Pradesh carrying her child, with nothing but the clothes on her back. “Villagers found the body of my husband three days after he had gone to the forest to herd our cows. I do not know why the Judum killed him,” she sighs. Bhimaa, a tribal, recounts his encounter with the Judum. “A few villagers and I were caught by the Judum. They rained sticks and blows on me while shouting, ‘You thief, you support Maoists, you feed Maoists!’ They put me in Vinjaram Judum camp in Dantewada. I escaped from there.” IT’S LITTLE wonder that several tribals can’t think of returning home. Kundan, a 35-year-old man from Kanchala village who now resides in Napana village of Khammam district, is convinced that they will be killed if they return. “Even if the government gives me a lorry or even a helicopter, I will not return,” he says. “We will not go back,” echo families who have streamed into Monalli village in Andhra Pradesh. The violence in Chhattisgarh will not let them live, they say. But going hungry day in and day out is also violence. Adma, 30, and his wife Soderama, 25, are a frail couple from Uskivai village of Chhattisgarh who have been trying to eke out a living in Guttani village for two and a half years. They have five children. When we met them, Madei, their three-year-old daughter, was their youngest. In their small thatched hut, frail Madei ate slowly, with droopy eyes. “She doesn’t even have the stamina to eat,” her mother says. Some months back her parents took Madei to the nearest Nutrition Rehabilitation Centre (NRC), 55km away. NRCs provide food and medicines to severely malnourished children. “We can’t keep going to the NRC. Who will look after the other children?” asks Soderama. Outside Chhattisgarh, this family has known acute hunger. Adma tills one acre of land borrowed from the local tribals and sometimes works as a farm hand. The farm produces a sack of grains which lasts two months. If he gets work, he gets Rs 50 per day. When there’s no work, there’s little to eat. “Sometimes we have to make gruel out of mango kernels,” he admits. “When kids cry out for food, I sometimes hit them out of frustration. ‘Where can I get food? Where?’ I would shout.” Two months after we met Madei, she died. “We tried saving her, but her malnourished body couldn’t fight back,” says Venkatesh of the Vyavasaya Mariyu Sanghika Abhivrudhi Samstha (Agriculture and Social Development Society) or ASDS, an ActionAid partner organisation. Because she is a woman, Adhumaya gets only Rs 30 a day as an agricultural labourer. She supplements this by selling *mahua* flowers and gum extract, but it is not enough. A broken cot, a tattered blanket and a worn-out sari make up Adhumaya’s belongings. Both she and her daughter often go hungry. “If we get food, we eat. If not, we have to stay quiet,” she says. Twelve out of 19 tribal families taking refuge in Guttani are malnourished, according to ASDS. In addition, reports of strife between local and Chhattisgarh tribals are increasing. Sharing land and resources means that everyone gets less. With government support, ASDS helps run a few residential schools in Khammam and seven non-residential centres in villages where young children and pregnant and lactating mothers get cooked lentils, rice, coconut oil, soap, and a sweet dish made of jaggery and groundnuts. Three such centres are aided by ActionAid. A 35-year-old man was killed by Naxalites because he met Judum members Development agencies agree that temporary measures cannot offset the socio-economic catastrophe sparked by the conflict. “The government needs to side with the tribals. The continuation of their life in the natural environment is vital to saving indigenous people,” says Raghu P of ActionAid. They would return to Chhattisgarh, “if Judum stops,” says Adma, without batting an eye. They had four acres of land there, 30 bags of rice every year, filled bellies and healthy children. “What do we have here?” he asks. Adhumaya and Bhimaa agree. ASDS and Vanvasi Chetna Ashram (VCA), an ActionAid partner organisation in Chhattisgarh, recently helped 90 families, originally from Bijapur district, return to their homes and land. Villages in Bijapur and Dantewada districts of Chhattisgarh look empty. Tribals need to reclaim their land before big businesses usurp it,” says Himanshu of VCA. CHHATTISGARH IS rich in 28 varieties of minerals, including diamonds and coal. A fifth of India’s iron ore is found here. The state government proclaims, “The state’s Mineral Policy, 2001, has created a conducive business environment to attract private investment in the state, both domestic and international.” Such a policy is in line with the Indian government’s push for double digit economic growth. But something has to give. ‘When my kids cry out for food, I sometimes get so frustrated I hit them,’ says a tribal Research by tribal affairs expert Walter Fernandes and his team in India’s tribal heartland – Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and Orissa – shows that the drive for development has led to rampant displacement and impoverishment. The corporate sector is being empowered to take over forests and rural land in these resource-rich states for mining, dams, industrial plants and a host of other projects. According to government notifications, over 1 crore acres have been acquired across the four states. In the last 10 years, a whopping 16 lakh people have been displaced and affected by development projects in the four states. Of these, nearly 80 percent are tribals. They who once cultivated land have lost it, along with their forests, rivers, ancestral homes, cremation grounds and places of worship. Industrial jobs also often go to people from outside the forest region as the tribals are poorly educated. Many thus migrate to neighbouring cities to become daily wage labourers. More displacement is imminent. Across the four states, nearly 80 Special Economic Zones (SEZs) designed to encourage business investment have been sanctioned. In Chhattisgarh, nearly 1.54 lakh acres have been acquired for SEZs. According to the Chhattisgarh Industrial Promotion Board, the state government has signed as many as 113 Memoranda of Understanding with industrial companies between 2001 and 2008, promising all possible help, incentives and clearances to them. The government’s response is dispiriting. The law states that the rural and urban poor are entitled to subsidised food through the Public Distribution System. In Andhra Pradesh, despite repeated petitions to the Khammam district administration to provide subsidised rations and midday meals to displaced families and children, only 10 percent of the immigrant population have ration cards. Tribals make up 80 percent of the 16 lakh displaced by development programs What’s more, forest officials regularly uproot the makeshift homes of displaced tribals. They take away the tarpaulin used for their homes and the farm implements without which they cannot earn a wage. Those who have settled in Napana have seen their homes torn down five times. Just a week before we met them, they had rebuilt their huts from the rubble of their broken homes. A Sharat, a project officer with the government’s Integrated Tribal Development Agency in Andhra Pradesh, has an imposing office. He hears us out patiently but says he can’t do much in isolation. He can deal with the affairs of tribals listed in the jurisdiction of Andhra Pradesh – but those from Chhattisgarh do not figure in that list. At an interim hearing in September 2008, the Supreme Court had asked the Chhattisgarh government to rehabilitate the victims of Salwa Judum and provide compensation. According to the Campaign for Peace and Justice in Chhattisgarh, a civil rights group, not a single village has been rehabilitated since the order. Meanwhile, lakhs of tribal citizens remain refugees in their own country. *The author is a development writer. The names of some people and places have been changed to maintain anonymity* *WRITER’S EMAIL* rightanjali at gmail.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 27, Dated July 11, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Historic judgement by Delhi High Court decriminalizes gay sex Read>> Liberhan Report Filed 16 Years Post Deadline By Sabika Muzaffar Nirupama Rao Appointed Next Foreign Secretary By Shruti Chakraborty Gunman shoots at cops during Sikh temple raids By Thomas Hochwarter More Stories>> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 14:30:47 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:30:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lalgarh --> Another wrong method to fight Naxalism Message-ID: Another article which just re-states in a way what many here have said on this forum: 'The state has been reducing the space for democratic protest'. And sooner or later there will be a day, when every day there will be blasts, one day by the Jehadis, one day by the Hindutva terrorists, one day by the Naxalites who will think of targetting at will, one day by some North-East based organization, one day by local hoodlums and so on, if the space for dissent is hijacked by the state and not allowed at all. Do read this. *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *guest column* *Caught Between Two Sickles* *A democratic protest against gross police brutality becomes a battlefield for two equally callous foes – Trinamool and the Left* *APARNA SEN* *Filmmaker* [image: image] *Frontlines* Aparna Sen (left) and other Swajan activists with Chatradhar Mahato (right) in Lalgarh *Photo:* PINTU PRADHAN THE SWAJAN group, of which I am a member, went to Lalgarh despite pressing personal commitments simply because we felt that it was incumbent upon us. Swajan, which means ‘your kin,’ includes poet Joy Goswami, his wife Kaberi Goswami, Shaonli Mitra, Arpita Ghosh, myself, Kaushik Sen, Professor Bolan Gangopadhyay and Prasun Bhaumik. Swajan is made up of people from diverse backgrounds, including writers, theatre personalities and academics. We are not affiliated with any political group and this is our greatest strength as it means we do not have any axe to grind. Our politics is entirely issue-based. Nandigram was the catalyst and we came together after the atrocities committed there. There is always a great tussle between the opposition and the ruling party, but the point is that the state doesn’t belong just to the opposition or the ruling party. It’s ours. In order to protect democracy, we, as citizens, must step in. It is important for intellectuals to be involved. We had been hearing many contradictory reports for a while. The Trinamool camp says the CPM is concocting everything, while the CPM says the Trinamool is concocting everything in collusion with the Maoists. We don’t believe either side. On top of that, the press reports different things. That’s why we decided to investigate Lalgarh by ourselves. When we got to Lalgarh, we found the villagers terrorised because they were caught in the crossfire between the Maoists, the police and the state administration. It all started with the landmine blast by the Maoists in November 2008 when they tried to kill the chief minister. As guerrillas do, the Maoists left the area but the villagers had to bear the brunt of the state’s anger. There was a lot of police brutality. Pregnant women were kicked in the stomach and a woman called Chitamoni Murmu lost her eyesight in the violence. As a result, the villagers formed the People’s Committee Against Police Brutality (PCAPB). We met their leader, Chatradhar Mahato who had told us in Kolkata earlier that in 32 years of Left rule, the government had not done a thing for Lalgarh. Lalgarh is really backward. There is no sanitation, no schools, no proper medical centre, not even electricity. In this age of globalisation, you can’t expect people to be deprived and remain silent. Their demand is for development. It is well known that wherever there is deprivation, the Maoists step in. They provide money and medicine and thus insidiously infiltrate a community. The villagers are very scared because on the one hand there is the police and on the other hand there are the Maoists. The villagers had boycotted the police and the Maoists had apparently even captured some of the police *thanas. *But it’s not very easy to know what exactly happened because there are so many contradictory reports. On Sunday, June 21, the day we went to Lalgarh, we heard from the villagers and from some journalists that some villagers under the jurisdiction of the Belpahari police *thana,* had been tortured. Women were dragged out of their homes and stripped. We heard that their *saris* were hoisted up and they were hit on their private parts. A boy of seven had his bones broken. The worst account is that the police defecated and urinated in the villagers’ meagre store of drinking water. As a result of all this, the villagers left home and went to the relief camps. They were very scared and said that they had dug up the roads and blocked them with trees to stop the police. They insist that theirs is a peaceful, democratic and legitimate movement against police brutality and demanded that the police apologise. The police weren’t even allowing the wounded to be taken to hospital. In fact, while we were with Chattradhar Mahato, we heard him repeatedly asking on his mobile, “Has the patient been taken to the hospital?” Everyone was scared to do so because of the threat of police brutality on the way. They are also scared of the Maoists and did not dare speak out against them. They insist that theirs is a separate movement and say that they cannot help it if Maoists hiding in the forest shoot from there. It’s true that there is a lot of infiltration of Maoists and other parties in the villages. And it is also true that the CPM *panchayat* has taken a lot of money. Whatever money comes from the Centre is stolen by the Panchayat pradhan. We suggested that the villagers appeal to the Maoists. In fact, if we had access to the Maoists we would have appealed to both parties to lay down their arms. We don’t want CPM workers to be killed either. We don’t want the torture or killing of any human being. Because we have no access to the Maoists, we appealed to them through the media. We said that if they really had the welfare of the villagers in mind, they should disarm and come forward to the discussion table. We are appealing to the state government also to ask their forces to lay down their arms and hold on at least till the 14th of July, which is the next date for discussions. But all this is falling on deaf ears. The worst account is that the police defecated and urinated in the scarce drinking water of the villagers WE SUGGESTED to the PCAPB that they state categorically in the press that they have nothing to do with the Maoists, and to also appeal to the Maoists not to interfere in the movement. But they don’t dare do that because they are scared of the repercussions. Swajan has written to P Chidambaram stating that Lalgarh has a long history of deprivation and police brutality and as a result, people have lost faith in the state administration. So it is important that a delegation be sent from the Centre to mediate. If a democratic protest movement is silenced, people will not dare to exercise their right to protest The government is now saying that Swajan violated Section 144 of the CrPC. But there was no way of knowing that Section 144 was in place. We had let the administration know before we set out. Shaonli Mitra even spoke in advance to Chief Secretary Asok Mohan Chakraborty. All he said to her was, “It’s better not to go today. Why don’t you go couple of days later? That’s my request.” But he didn’t say, “Don’t go,” or say that Section 144 is in force. There was no public notification either. The police stopped us several times on the way to check the car and nobody said anything. This charge of violating Section 144 has definitely been levelled retrospectively. The government is also saying we smuggled Maoists in our car. Even assuming we had got in touch with the Maoists, where would we have hidden one? Our cars were stopped and checked at every step. The government wants to frame us somehow or the other and they are trying their best to do so. It would be very sad if a legitimate democratic protest movement like the PCAPB is equated with a terrorist group and is therefore quashed. People will not dare to protest democratically if that happens. *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 27, Dated July 11, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 14:30:51 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:00:51 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Goldman Sachs Bank "giant vapire squid on face of humanity" Message-ID: "The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it's everywhere. The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money. Any attempt to construct a narrative around all the former Goldmanites in influential positions quickly becomes an absurd and pointless exercise, like trying to make a list of everything. What you need to know is the big picture: If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — an extremely unfortunate loophole in the system of Western democratic capitalism, which never foresaw that in a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy...Finally, when it all goes bust, leaving millions of ordinary citizens broke and starving, they begin the entire process over again, riding in to rescue us all by lending us back our own money at interest, selling themselves as men above greed, just a bunch of really smart guys keeping the wheels greased." http://bit.ly/1X88rO From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 5 15:12:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:42:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Netas and babus can outsmart smart cards Message-ID: <65be9bf40907050242w7d55bbd6re5a1c11f99cc4806@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articlelist/articleshow/4739109.cms SWAMINOMICS Netas and babus can outsmart smart cards 5 Jul 2009, 0056 hrs IST, Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar Nobody is better qualified than you to head the government's project to create an identification number for every citizen, buttressed with a smart card that allows governments, banks and other institutions to interact with every citizen. In theory this could transform the quality of governance, weed out corruption and waste, and end poverty by helping target the poor. I wish you luck. Smart ministers (like you) are better than dumb ministers. Yet low-level netas and babus have long outwitted smart ministers. Your book Imagining India cites Rajiv and Rahul Gandhi as saying that only 5-15% of programme funds reach beneficiaries. Sadly, implementing officials are unaccountable and unsackable. So, your challenge is not to create smart cards so much as to outsmart the saboteurs along the line. The government already issues ration cards, PAN cards, voter cards, and job cards. All are riddled with leakages and gaps. All suffer from ghosting (cards issued to non-eligible or non-existent persons) and missing out (deserving people do not get cards, especially the poor and illiterate). The government has issued 223 million ration cards, but India has only 200 million households. It has issued 80 million BPL (below poverty line) ration cards although the number of poor households is under 65 million. PAN cards for income tax payers, issued by renowned IT companies, are a fiasco. Several people have multiple PAN cards, while others have none. Voter ID cards have been issued for a decade. Yet, millions of voters find their names missing from the rolls, many have not got cards, and many dead voters remain on the rolls. Job cards are being issued for employment schemes. Yet, we have reports of substantial ghost cards and missing beneficiaries. Your book says that the government has data on people in various silos, but these are not interconnected. A national ID card with electronic capability can connect the silos, improve government-citizen interaction, and so transform governance. And yet, as your book itself says, e-governance will remain a showcase unless governments are serious. Alas, many are not. Gyandoot in Madhya Pradesh, India's first e-governance scheme, won an international prize. Today, it is dysfunctional because data are not constantly updated and made accessible to citizens. Gyandoot started off smart but ended up dumb. Economist Lant Prtichett says India is not a failed state, but is a flailing state. "Its very capable head is not reliably connected to the arms and legs of implementation... the agents of the state routinely do not implement the tasks they are assigned." Driving licences are imposed to improve driving standards. But the licensing process is so painful that most applicants simply pay a tout to get a licence, without undergoing a real driving test. Attempts to reduce absenteeism of nurses in Rajasthan failed because staff ensured that devices to monitor attendance did not work. Pritchett gives many examples of non-implementation. Government servants are responding to perverse incentives. They don't get rewarded for satisfying citizens. But officials who extort suffer no penalty, and get promoted in cahoots with corrupt netas. Such a system is quite smart, but has no interest in service delivery. If the implementers have no interest in service delivery, can a smart card outsmart them? ID cards can check illegal immigration. But if the ruling parties of West Bengal and Assam view illegal immigrants as vote banks, will they really use smart cards to crack down? When chief ministers demand huge sums to post officials to "lucrative" posts, will they use smart cards to undercut this patronage network? Contractors in every state are party cadres. Will chief ministers bankrupt their own cadres by using smart cards to check waste and corruption? Such examples can be multiplied a hundredfold. Smart cards can transfer funds directly to the needy. In theory, governments can replace a hundred anti-poverty schemes and subsidies with cash transfers, eliminating leakages. But this won't happen because politicians view the poor as too small a votebank, and prefer distributing largesse to others - they don't see this as leakage. Hence, they favour free water and power for all farmers, not just poor ones. I fear that that even if you create a smart card to deliver cash to the poor, politicians will not wind up a single subsidy or anti-poverty scheme. Smart cards may become just one more scheme, with its own leakages and omissions. My aim is not to deride your task, but to highlight its problems. I have great respect for your acumen. I hope you will outsmart all the saboteurs on India's electronic path. But i wouldn't bet on it. Click here to comment on this story. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 15:31:17 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:31:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population Message-ID: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> *Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population to ‘stop polarisation’* http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Modi-govt-orders-study-of-Gujarat-population-to---stop-polarisation-/484867 "The panel, headed by retired Justice B J Sethna, will assess the total area in square metres occupied by people of different religious faiths as on August 15, 1947, and the patterns of “polarisation of population” and migration every 10 years thereafter. The survey is expected to identify the areas — their names and sizes — where people of different religions live, or have shifted to." *Gujarat Govt’s demography study a communal agenda, say activists* http://www.indianexpress.com/news/gujarat-govts-demography-study-a-communal-agenda-say-activists/485238/1 "Another senior Gujarat HC advocate Mukul Sinha said it to be “political hypocrisy”. “Those who engineered polarisation now want a debate on it. If the government is sensitive to the problem of minorities, why it is not providing basic civic amenities in Juhapura, the biggest Muslim ghetto in Gujarat with no road, drainage and drinking water supply,” said Sinha. He also questioned the appointment of Justice B J Sethna (retd) as the commission’s chairman. “The choice of judge is very inappropriate because he had been involved in several controversies in the past,” he said. The Supreme Court had reversed his judgment in the Best Bakery case and ordered fresh trial." From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:05:58 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:05:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Brilliant. So now after having played a very significant role in the polarization itself, the BJP has decided to find the reasons for the same. Actually, the BJP survives because of this polarization. If it wasn't there in the first place, the Hindus and Muslims would have trusted each other more, and the Hindutva plank would never have worked. May be the BJP should also institute a commission to define Hindutva, now that there is confusion on the meaning of the term itself within the party. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:25:36 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:25:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> My question how is: can polarisation be studied with a survey? - anupam On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Brilliant. So now after having played a very significant role in the > polarization itself, the BJP has decided to find the reasons for the same. > Actually, the BJP survives because of this polarization. If it wasn't there > in the first place, the Hindus and Muslims would have trusted each other > more, and the Hindutva plank would never have worked. > > May be the BJP should also institute a commission to define Hindutva, now > that there is confusion on the meaning of the term itself within the party. > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:35:48 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:35:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, this seems unclear: If BJP has a hand in polarisation, why would it ask for a survey in the state? suppose the surveyors conclude that Gujarat has a polarised society, then BJP should benefit, if i were to go by what you written: "Actually, the BJP survives because of this polarization. If it wasn't there in the first place, the Hindus and Muslims would have trusted each other more, and the Hindutva plank would never have worked." thanks anupam On 7/5/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > My question how is: can polarisation be studied with a survey? > > - anupam > > > On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> Brilliant. So now after having played a very significant role in the >> polarization itself, the BJP has decided to find the reasons for the same. >> Actually, the BJP survives because of this polarization. If it wasn't there >> in the first place, the Hindus and Muslims would have trusted each other >> more, and the Hindutva plank would never have worked. >> >> May be the BJP should also institute a commission to define Hindutva, now >> that there is confusion on the meaning of the term itself within the party. >> > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:42:50 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:42:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam, My feeling is that the polarization has certainly taken place, (news of distress sales and increase in Muslim population in the old areas of cities, not only in Gujarat but also elsewhere). But our Modi bhai is actually thinking now of becoming the PM of the nation.(which he will of course deny) And since the BJP is in no position to gain absolute majority on its own, he needs to become the leader of the NDA. Unfortunately for him, the post-Godhra violence is an albatross around his neck. That is something people are not forgetting, and so can't he. The problem is that he has to raise issues of minority appeasement when it comes to Gujarat elections, but at the Centre he would like them to be forgotten. But that is not happening. And this scuttles his position to be the leader of the NDA. And more importantly, to be the PM of India. Therefore, my personal perception is that the BJP has called for this survey either to prove that no polarization has taken place, or if it has, communal riots have had no role in it and Muslims migrated on their own without any provocations or contexts for the same. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:45:12 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:45:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In addition to what I wrote above, what the second conclusion would be used to interpret is that Muslims are themselves communal and don't want to live peacefully with Hindus. And this results in trust deficit between Hindus and Muslims, a perfect situation for the BJP. By the way, as a side question, the madrasas in UP have been found to also educate Hindu children. Are there cases of RSS backed schools educating the Muslims? Any Hindutva backers having answers to this question? From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:55:00 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:55:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907050425q4537f869o80ae024e90b40df7@mail.gmail.com> The hindutva backer might say, RSS and Muslims organisations have worked closedly during Surat Plague and floods and earthquakes. However, the reader here is interested in discusssing BJP's policies. i know what BJP's policy has been with gujarat. again if im asked to repeat: how far have the surveys to study polarisation have been successful in yielding results which have resolved conflicts? On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > In addition to what I wrote above, what the second conclusion would be used > to interpret is that Muslims are themselves communal and don't want to live > peacefully with Hindus. And this results in trust deficit between Hindus and > Muslims, a perfect situation for the BJP. > > By the way, as a side question, the madrasas in UP have been found to also > educate Hindu children. Are there cases of RSS backed schools educating the > Muslims? Any Hindutva backers having answers to this question? > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 16:56:24 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:56:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050425q4537f869o80ae024e90b40df7@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050425q4537f869o80ae024e90b40df7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No answers as of now. Please wait. Will post something on it by today night. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 17:01:44 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:01:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi govt orders study of Gujarat population In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907050301o25c9e690l4ee2289860872943@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050355u3cdbc336k8bd77c748717e93e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050405x4869239bnf5479c3c4f6fc86b@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050425q4537f869o80ae024e90b40df7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907050431n41feab23u444a20a1a57e9e71@mail.gmail.com> dear rakesh, please! these questions are not only meant for you but for other readers.i wish u good luck. hope we all find an answer from the learned ones. -anupam On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > No answers as of now. Please wait. Will post something on it by today > night. > From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:02:20 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:02:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vikalp@TISS Screening of 'Kora Rajee', July 6, Bombay Message-ID: Posted by: "Monteiro and Jayasankar" cmcs.tiss at gmail.com Subject: Adda and Vikalp at TISS ADDA invites you to attend a *Vikalp at TISS* screening of *Kora Rajee ( The land of the diggers) *on* Monday, the 6th of July at 6:00p.m. in room no. 4. *Director Meghnath of the filmmaker duo Meghnath and Biju Toppo will be present for discussion after the film. The film will be followed by *Gaon chodab nahi! ( We will not leave our lands) *a music video written by Meghnath and directed by K.P. Sasi. We request you to attend the screening and participate in the discussion. *Kora Rajee* (The land of the diggers) Kora Rajee is the first film in Kurukh,a tribal language. The film is about the stories of the adivasi labourers from the tea gardens of Assam and Punjab. People in this film talk about themselves and their ancestors, their migrations and exiles, their continued exploitation and marginalisation. This complex film touches upon many issues, ranging from labour migrations in the 19th century to displacement and globalisation in the 21st century. *About the Filmmakers Meghnath & Biju Toppo* Meghnath and Biju Toppo are founders of AKHRA, a group working in the field of culture and communication in Jharkhand*.* Meghnath is an activist working in Jharkhand for last 25 years. He has been participating in the people’s struggle against destructive development. As a film maker he tries to document voices that remain unheard.Currently, he is a teacher of Mass Communication at St. Xaviers College, Ranchi.Biju Toppo is one of the first Adivasi film makers to have effectively used the camera to counter the misrepresentation of his community by the ‘mainstream’ media. Their films have received national and international recognition. *Gaon chodab nahi! *(We will not leave our lands!) Music Video on Adivasi Struggles in India 5 Minutes A cry that echoes through forests and mountains in India today is of the adivasis, the original or indigenous dwellers who face massive displacement due to developmental projects that are destroying the roots of their survival base...Gaon chhodab nahin! A voice of assertion that echoes throughout this music video that captures the marginalisation of adivasis all over India and forces us to ask: In whose favour does the God of Development work, and whom does it curse? *About the Director - K.P.Sasi* Sasi is a documentary film makers and in the last 25 years, has made more than 20 documentaries to be used by various people’s movements. He has made 3 feature films which have received national and international recognition. His music video America-America is an anti-war film and has been used all over the world. The music video “Gaon chodab nahi” is latest to his credit. -- Adda - The CMCS Film Club Centre for Media and Cultural Studies, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Sion Trombay Road, Opposite Deonar Bus Depot, Mumbai-88.Tel: 022-25525667 http://www.addacmcs .wordpress. com/ From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 18:12:10 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 05:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Railway exam postponed after protests in Mysore, Bangalore Message-ID: <283010.98151.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> NEWS ITEM:A pro-Kannada group was reportedly against north Indian candidates taking the railway recruitment exams. WHERE ARE WE HEADING TO?? Hindu-Muslim, Hindu-Christian,Marathi Manoos-North Indian, Maoist,Separatists,Gujjars-Meenas,Brahmins-Dalits,Jats etc (A.K.MALIK) From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 5 18:25:09 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:25:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Fake Encounters Message-ID: <986637.10733.qm@web94715.mail.in2.yahoo.com> LALGARH< ADMINISTRATION, passports issued in 2 months in Janakpuri authority, not much of  that a concern,Where is this state heading to? HAhhaha ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Saturday, 4 July, 2009 9:58:33 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Fake Encounters Bastards in uniform. No match against Expert. And always anxious to prove their might using lathis and guns. As if, being powerful mandates use of force on powerless. The case of Ranbir Singh. Must have read on news. Every other day, we see cases of molestation, fake encounter etc. And police weilding lathis over innocent. As usual to keep force going, such acts are encouraged and defended withoutn any unconditional appology. If the entire story by DIG, SSP is true, a few questions remain unanswered. a.. What provoked a guy without a past criminal record to Snatch a revolver and run, was it that he had his own, or was he being implicated under the lathi raaj? May be they got into an altercation, and a scuffle as a result, thence he had to run. b. Under such circumstances what provoked a head on encounter? Was there any threat to anybody's life or any warrant? c. Why is Singh so much concerned and not the officers who made th actual encounter. Koi kissi ka saala hain kya? Why did the department take the constable's words so seriously, and who were the men responsible for shooting orders? Is dehradun police not adequately equipped with interceptors etc.? May be he resisted, may be he asked for the kind a treatment a person deserves, and he was made a terorist. Wonder when all of us shall meet such deaths, as branded terorists. For example mobile theft business, invariably, the computer complaint is lodged after quite sometime, hours, I'd say, by that time presumably those who could not come in time the operation is done. For example, in mourice nagar area evn after a series of thefts in identifyiable pattern and densities in colleges, police could neither prevent recurrance, nor could crime branch recover a single mobile. Many a times police men find it difficult to accept the man in front is familiar with the 'road', and is looking into their eyes. Blatantly inabbriated, a little more explicit than drunk, what does it matter if people call these men MAMU's. They'd rather be Goons and retain their only claim to fame. I do not say Ranbir was right(not an extortionist) or he was wrong. I say blatantly defending your lower officials can not be tolerated. And then if somebody even a senior citizen is unwilling and wants to reach inside any office or morgue, Kick him, and beat him, beat slim boys, men and women, but dare not take a head on with experts who have mastered the arts of Gun, empty hands or Sticks, it'd be lethal. After all, jitne jiyenge, utna, salaami! An Mba may be corrupt, extortion agent,  but has contacts and is intelligent enough to avoid an encounter, explicitly, who after all lodges an FIR against Forces, armed mob, what is use in such a blatant support. And ranbir was not a political goon, no need to take his cause. In my lingo, like thousand others, he's murdered, not only by singh, but the entire Police Department, and by the First Lady, who's presence, gave an alibi, and her ignorance, which hurt the conscience of the society. What happens to a deaD man is not my concern that much, it seems pre-determined, inspite of media, thousands other go undetected. I'll pose one question, in such a scenario, with automatic armed men, does arms act have any social significance? The state a silent spectre, and these men, not officers on duty,armed hoodlums, going on state-armed rampage.       Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 5 18:27:04 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:27:04 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: University of Delhi ,the next Terror Hub? Message-ID: <565030.8276.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Save my universiy please take some care to notice sensitise and create info, is it hawala once again? Save my Du, I love it, I'd die for some people out there. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Friday, 3 July, 2009 6:11:51 PM Subject: University of Delhi ,the next Terror Hub? DAS NSG HUB. Chidambaram sitting as a king, India is a Rajya, with armed men everywhere, Searching and behaving bossily, everyone can do anything to rise above the ladder to appease cooks and servants if the need be, logic seems to have failed. Making the a Black Cat is not child's play. Apart the talents, the bullets,extra after police or army training, the huge and elaborate support staff, the hosptial charges, the bullets, mess, other weapons mechanism and perks, the hard hours of training, the trainers involved etc, makes this force a really expensive, in rare terms and elite.  Training a soldier is very expensive except food and residence, it takes about Rs15000 in little more than 2 weeks..One soldier dead is expensive to the nation. Off course they have to die, but in job, to protect people or nation. An Unplanned massacre and injury by pressuring the NSg's should be avoided. The Mumbai scenario. We've not learned lessons. We depriciated lives of those civilians who could live in the name of combatting terrors. And we flush out armed naxalites with villagers, the more trivial fights, the less limelight on serious issues of National wealth and QOL. Now I've an important news. I deliberately exclude police from it, first on forum. Coz I belive effect would be reverse. Off late I'd been hearing that some street Dweller(S) have been talking on some radio device. Could be of Intelligence, Indian, foreign or enemy. If not Indian, then there is fear. Yesterday while returnong on side of Patel Chest towards Metro Station, I found a man looking half mad, an urchin, sort of one nobody would find. A voice, like any radio, only in short spurts and the man reacting to every sentence. Then I stop the man says somehing and radio stops, I see something like a wireless device in his ragged back. Very cautiously this man now seems not so mad but may be some trader and asks me Whats the matter. Nothing. Only cleared my doubts, a spread carpet, not of any trade, a radio device and an alert mind. Who is he? I didn't call the police for two reasons: A. I did not wanna get hurt. Most probably, some policemen, the hawala is also into it. B. I did not want arbitary harrasment of ragamuffins, pick them, beat them, shove them away. They are street dwellers and this would increase, not certainly decrease the level on crime. Even Staff or students may be abused. If anything of ths happens, I'd have to protest. The place at stake is my alma matter. However, I'd like all readers on this list moving around that place to be cautious, and the police try to interfere radio frequencies, and employ benign looking Plain clothes men there. This is a good place, and good people live here,and I believe any strike here will only hamper it's braod accomodating, multi-cultural and elite culture. Not a good scheme for any normal ultra group. Then who? This man looked a rajasthani, and Indian. On guessing, simply concerned my near and dear ones.. ________________________________ See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 5 18:30:19 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:30:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: University of Delhi ,the next Terror Hub? Message-ID: <432516.53603.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear moderator, FAST!Plz publish this post, will spread my message, concerns us on this list. Regards, Subhrodip. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Sunday, 5 July, 2009 6:27:04 PM Subject: Fw: University of Delhi ,the next Terror Hub? Save my universiy please take some care to notice sensitise and create info, is it hawala once again? Save my Du, I love it, I'd die for some people out there. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Friday, 3 July, 2009 6:11:51 PM Subject: University of Delhi ,the next Terror Hub? DAS NSG HUB. Chidambaram sitting as a king, India is a Rajya, with armed men everywhere, Searching and behaving bossily, everyone can do anything to rise above the ladder to appease cooks and servants if the need be, logic seems to have failed. Making the a Black Cat is not child's play. Apart the talents, the bullets,extra after police or army training, the huge and elaborate support staff, the hosptial charges, the bullets, mess, other weapons mechanism and perks, the hard hours of training, the trainers involved etc, makes this force a really expensive, in rare terms and elite.  Training a soldier is very expensive except food and residence, it takes about Rs15000 in little more than 2 weeks.One soldier dead is expensive to the nation. Off course they have to die, but in job, to protect people or nation. An Unplanned massacre and injury by pressuring the NSg's should be avoided. The Mumbai scenario. We've not learned lessons. We depriciated lives of those civilians who could live in the name of combatting terrors. And we flush out armed naxalites with villagers, the more trivial fights, the less limelight on serious issues of National wealth and QOL. Now I've an important news. I deliberately exclude police from it, first on forum. Coz I belive effect would be reverse. Off late I'd been hearing that some street Dweller(S) have been talking on some radio device. Could be of Intelligence, Indian, foreign or enemy. If not Indian, then there is fear. Yesterday while returnong on side of Patel Chest towards Metro Station, I found a man looking half mad, an urchin, sort of one nobody would find. A voice, like any radio, only in short spurts and the man reacting to every sentence. Then I stop the man says somehing and radio stops, I see something like a wireless device in his ragged back. Very cautiously this man now seems not so mad but may be some trader and asks me Whats the matter. Nothing. Only cleared my doubts, a spread carpet, not of any trade, a radio device and an alert mind. Who is he? I didn't call the police for two reasons: A. I did not wanna get hurt. Most probably, some policemen, the hawala is also into it. B. I did not want arbitary harrasment of ragamuffins, pick them, beat them, shove them away. They are street dwellers and this would increase, not certainly decrease the level on crime. Even Staff or students may be abused. If anything of ths happens, I'd have to protest. The place at stake is my alma matter. However, I'd like all readers on this list moving around that place to be cautious, and the police try to interfere radio frequencies, and employ benign looking Plain clothes men there. This is a good place, and good people live here,and I believe any strike here will only hamper it's braod accomodating, multi-cultural and elite culture. Not a good scheme for any normal ultra group. Then who? This man looked a rajasthani, and Indian. On guessing, simply concerned my near and dear ones.. ________________________________ See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. ________________________________ Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here. Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:26:26 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:26:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Railway exam postponed after protests in Mysore, Bangalore In-Reply-To: <283010.98151.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <283010.98151.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Add to that the following: Communists-Hindutvaites, Indians-Pakistanis, RSS-SIMI, ISI-RAW, Capitalists-Socialists, state actors-non state actors, Maoists-Indian state, Islamic fundamentalism v/s Hindu/Christian/Jewish fundamentalism(s) etc..... From dnkashyap at rediffmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:24:52 2009 From: dnkashyap at rediffmail.com (devendera kashyap) Date: 5 Jul 2009 13:54:52 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=28no_subject=29?= Message-ID: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> respected frnds i donot know from where the hinduatva agenda, comes as a part of BJP/RSS. let me remind all readers that there is no faith in india known as hinduism. we have muslims, cristians, budhists. etc but not hindus, as per the law of the land. way back in perhaps in 1996 SC gave ajudgement that hinuism is not a religion, but way of life. as for as i know this has not been retified. so officail this definition stands From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:29:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:29:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: The SC has made a mistake in this judgement. Hinduism is not just 'a' way of life (or one way of life), it's a combination of many ways of life. In that sense, even Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, tribals, atheists, agnostics, etc. can be Hindus. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:40:54 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:40:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> "In that sense, even Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, tribals, atheists, agnostics, etc. can be Hindus." dear rakesh, isnt it going abit too far? i mean why would you want to give so much of importance to one religion. hinduism is a way of life and all is understood but what makes you say everyone who is not a hindu should be counted amongst them. There are several other schools of thought, which are not neccesarily hindu but have assumed the status of being a way of life. for example: shintoism or zen buddhism. this way you are turning it into a cult like thing where anyone who is following the so called way of life is a member. i find it extremely big brotherly when one says that hinduism is a way of life. it is dumbing down the finer or the greater aspects of other religions, which are also a ways of life if led in such a way. god and the association of god is something personal, which doesnt neccesarily demand a way to be followed. you might just find your god in the filthiest corner of the world. what would you do then? reject that god for your way of life? -anupam On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > The SC has made a mistake in this judgement. Hinduism is not just 'a' way > of > life (or one way of life), it's a combination of many ways of life. In that > sense, even Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, tribals, > atheists, > agnostics, etc. can be Hindus. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 5 19:45:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:15:44 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Scrap EVM's,lets go back to ballot say Advani. Message-ID: <65be9bf40907050715l48f6394fneb06fe5bc30a76f2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Now here's what I would like to call an interesting development. The BJP leader LK Advani who many would say introduced the idea of national identity card in India is saying that electronic voting machines are no good and appeals to everyone concerned that ballots based voting should be introduced. This issue here is similar to identity cards. There was a system in place. The process involved to run that system was manual. Learned arguments were made to change that system to electronic voting machines. These arguments ran simultaneously with often tried and tested arguments about the new electronic voting machines would be efficient, would ease out corrupt practices, would negate the erring human element, would result in a highly transparent and a quick system of garnering votes. Much like arguments which are now being made in favor of MNIC. How MNIC would ease burdensome red-tapism, how MNIC would introduce an element of efficiency, How data collection and classification would hasten, How the 'burden' of carrying multiple cards would be thing of the past and so on. However, could one expect opposition parties of the future to demand that national identity cards be scrapped, in the light of perceived failure of such of scheme? One of the arguments being made is how UIDAI 's infusion of funds will act as 'stimulus pacakage' for the IT industry. The argument from the government's side is that about one hundred thousand new jobs could be availed in the IT enabled sector. That is fine and appreciable on part of the government to think of people in the IT sector. But why 'stimulate' IT sector now? They had their chance and they blew it up. Why should the GOI take its role of reviving one private sector alone with such focused spending of public money so seriously? Isn't the IT sector has already garnered enough subsidies in terms of tax breaks, cheap land and so on? Why does it needs to be pampered so much? Why not let the invisible hand take over? Isn't the creation of UIDAI and its foundational logic to redistribute 1.5 Lakh crore not a clear case of subsidizing a sector? Redistribution of public money to few private players. IT sector is a oligarchic in nature. Few players dominate the market. Why is no one saying now, let 'market forces' take over? Why is no one saying now that let market decide what is best for the industry? Why should the people of India support a white elephant? Why gift the IT sector a ready-made market of 30 BIllion dollars? What is so special about these software companies anyways? Regarding the projected employment of a lakh of people by money spent by UIDAI, was there ever a cost benefit analysis done to assess how many people could be employed if this scale of money were to be invested in housing, which is a labor intensive industry? Or has any one assessed how many people could be employed if such a money could be infused in agriculture sector as subsidies? A person like P. Sainath would like to argue that it was the agricultural subsidy of around 30 billion dollars in the US which let to suicides of a lakh of farmers in India. Therefore if the overarching argument for the introduction of such a scheme is that good of all must be maximized then whose 'good' is the Government of India seems to be deeply concerned about in creation of UIDAI and appointment of Nandan Nilekani? Advani wants ballot to be re-introduced at a time when GOI wants EVIC to be history. Isn't Advani seems to be getting extremely confused as an opposition leader? Confused about his role. Confused about his responsibilities and confused about the historic opportunity that he seems to have in his hand to resurrect the BJP as a responsible center right party of India. Please follow the link below for Advani's statement about re-introducing the ballot. http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/96370/scrap-evms-lets-go-back-to-ballot-says-advani.html Warm regards Taha From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:54:57 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:54:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shahbir Shah has links with LeT: Police Message-ID: <6353c690907050724s4e67683fq9ed8166e8d446ff8@mail.gmail.com> *Shahbir Shah has links with LeT: Police* *PTI | Srinagar* In a confidential report, Jammu and Kashmir Police has accused moderate Hurriyat Conference leader Shabir Ahmed Shah of having links with Pakistan-based terror group Lashker-e-Taiba. In the report to the state home department, the police have suggested some pro-active measures to curb the anti-national activities of separatist leaders and also slapped the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act against pro-Pakistan leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani. In its report, the police alleged that Shah was in constant touch with Furqan of Lashker-e-Taiba and used to take orders directly from him, official sources said. The report, which has been sent to the Home department to confirm the Public Safety Act on Shah, has accused him of hatching a conspiracy with LeT cadres in destablising the peace in the state. The name of Furqan first surfaced during the probe of Hurriyat leader Sheikh Aziz's killing. He was shot dead in North Kashmir during "Muzzafarabad Chalo" (in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir) by militants. During investigations, it came to light that Furqan was in constant touch with Shah on a mobile not registered in the name of the separatist leader, the police claimed in its report. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:58:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:58:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam jee First of all, I don't think in terms of a 'big brother' when I talk of Hinduism. Hinduism is not a big brother. The problem lies with the meaning of the word 'Hindu' itself. If one looks at say Islam or Christianity, there are definitions of who is a Muslim/Christian or what is a Muslim/Christian. Yes, indeed, they are ways of life. The Muslims by and large, are supposed to follow the Koran (which is their holy book), as per my perception. Even the Christians are supposed to follow the teachings of the Bible, I feel. The problem comes when one tries to define what/who is a Hindu. There are so many definitions of the word Hindu itself, that one doesn't know which definition to accept and which to not accept. Some say the word 'Hindu' comes from the word 'Sindhu' , which was used by the Arabs to indicate those who lived on the east of the river 'Indus'. For some like Vivekananda, anybody is a Hindu. For someone like Savarkar, the word 'Hindu' had political connotations. And for someone like Gandhi, 'any good man is a Hindu'. And then again, there is no one single common text to be followed by Hindus, unlike say Islam or Christianity. In other words, a person can be Hindu by one definition, and yet not a Hindu by another definition. And any definition can be acceptable or unacceptable, depending on personal choice. Therefore, everyone is a Hindu and again, no one is Hindu. Or in other words, everything is Hindu, and yet nothing is Hindu. Depends on the choice you wish to make. And so, the way a Hindu lives can be Hinduism. But then again, since all people can be Hindus by those definitions, and all people can't lead the same way of life, Hinduism to me is a combination of different ways of life. Of course, if no one is a Hindu, then Hinduism is nothing, because Hinduism is an ism which is supposedly followed by Hindus, right? (If capitalism is a phenomenon dependent upon capital and socialism is dependent upon 'social', then Hinduism is dependent on 'Hindu' and if no one is a Hindu, Hinduism doesn't exist) And when something is a way of life, it doesn't mean that it's a religion. It becomes a religion when it is stated that anyone who is not a Muslim/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist/Parsi/Jew/Christian/etc. is a Hindu. That's when one gives it the status of religion. So why worry if you worship any God? PS: The article I like to put up on social polarization, I may not be able to put up today. I will try to do so by tomorrow. I apologize for the delay. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 19:59:37 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:59:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Aggressive gay evangelism Message-ID: <6353c690907050729t6ee09921y86de7ee164caa2a1@mail.gmail.com> *Aggressive gay evangelism* *Swapan Dasgupta* *The Pioneer* In 1965, when the House of Lords debated the proposal to legalise homosexual relations between consenting adults, the legendary Field Marshal Montgomery proposed a curious amendment. Incensed over what he called “this most abominable bestiality”, he argued the age of consent should be raised to 80! It is entirely possible that this very original suggestion may find takers among MPs and religious figures agitated by the Delhi High Court’s judgement to de-criminalise gay sex between consenting adults over the age of 21. That the private conduct of two responsible adults should not be the business of the state — unless it jeopardises national security and public health or constitutes a fraud — has long been recognised as a tenet of personal freedom. Carnal relations involving the same sex may well be against the laws of nature and, therefore, ‘unnatural’. But there is nothing in the act that corresponds to the common sense definition of criminality. If voluntary gay sex is deemed criminal, the law may as well attach the tag of criminality to adultery — a move that could result in considerable discomfiture to some of those who are most indignant about the High Court decision. If the High Court had confined its judgement to merely removing the stigma of criminality attached to queers (oh how this innocent word has been tarred), it would have done its bit to ensure that laws keep pace with changing social mores. Unfortunately, the High Court went a bit over the top. It was bad enough to inject BR Ambedkar, Jawaharlal Nehru and the Sonia Gandhi doctrine of inclusiveness into the pantheon of gay rights, what was more ominous was the incorporation of minority sexual habits into the notion of equality. It is one thing to accommodate gay sexual preferences into a loose framework of individual freedom so that a minusculity is spared needless harassment, it is a different matter to establish a moral equivalence between same-sex relationships and man-woman relationships. The judges may not have intended to put them on par but that is the unintended consequence of pitting an arcane clause of the IPC against some of the fundamental rights in the Constitution. If the contentious part of Section 377 violates the Constitution, as the High Court has decided, why was it allowed to remain in the statutes for a full 59 years? Like the classification of some communities as ‘criminal tribes’, why wasn’t it junked earlier? If the inspiration for Section 377 was Victorian morality, why wasn’t it re-examined after the passage of the Sexual Offences Act of 1967 in Britain? The High Court need not have undertaken surgery with general anaesthesia to remove a tiny wart in our laws. The reason why 377 persisted for so long owed partly to the colonial inheritance. But far more important, it found a place in the statutes because it corresponded to an unspoken social definition of ordinary decencies. This perception has changed over time, just as polygamy and child marriage have been outlawed for most communities, the age of consent raised progressively and the law of primogeniture scrapped. Legal strictures against consensual adult homosexuality had to go because it was perceived as unjust and unfair. This is not to suggest that homosexuality is now kosher. The opposition to the High Court judgement from all religious groups indicates that same-sex relationships may be tolerated but they have no wider social sanction. The judgement has merely defined gays as a distinct minority group defined by their sexual preferences. To my mind this is fair. There is absolutely no reason why decent individuals such as the writer Vikram Seth — who has spoken about his gayness with sensitivity — should have the threat of criminality dangling before him for something that is clearly a very private emotion. No one wants a repetition of the disagreeable witch-hunt of Oscar Wilde in the 21st century and no one wants rabid homophobic utterances which characterise President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. Gays have the right to live their life with dignity and without the fear of persecution. Unfortunately, the High Court judgement has opened the floodgates of what may best be called aggressive gay evangelism. If the experience of the West is anything to go by, it is a matter of time before there are demands — backed by the usual clutch of NGOs and international agencies — to lower the age of consent, accommodate gay marriages within a legal framework and allow the right of adoption to gay couples. In Britain, for example, the age of consent for voluntary homosexuality was 21 at the time of the Sexual Offences Act of 1967; by 2000, this was lowered to 16 despite the fierce opposition of the House of Lords and the Christian churches; now there are demands for legalising gay marriages and altering the school curricula to show that man-woman relations are not the natural order of society. Equally insidious, militant gay campaigners have made life impossible for those gays who want to lead private lives without ‘coming out’ and flaunting their sexuality. In 1974, the Gay Liberation Front ‘outed’ EM Forster and denounced him as a “downcast gay” for keeping his sexual preferences private. A perverse in-your-face-gayness has come to define gay activism. The invocation of equality and the principles of non-discrimination are a double-edged sword. What may begin as an innocent gesture of accommodation and tolerance has the potential to spin out of control. The gesture of de-criminalising homosexuality — which is different from endorsing it — has to be accompanied by a robust assertion of the state and society’s commitment to family values. Unless, of course, we see the recognition of gay rights as a precursor to a gender-neutral, non-denominational, secular, uniform civil code — just as the Constitution-makers desired. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 20:07:37 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:07:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050737p1e997dfbvf0b703d14c8c94e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737p1e997dfbvf0b703d14c8c94e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907050737j2677294dnd343dc2be4663e3f@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: anupam chakravartty Date: Jul 5, 2009 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] (no subject) To: Rakesh Iyer Dear Rakesh, Hinduism comprises of many schools with divergent views. The word Hindu in itself is a very late creation after it came in touch with the european cultures. before this it was called arya dharma or depending upon which school you belonged to. there were mimansikas, advaita and even the materialists, such as Charvakas. You cannot by any means, after reading their arguments say that they are from one whole -- that is Hindu. however, these are my ideas. there can other interpretations as well. i dont really care political hinduism or political islam or political christianity or whatever that may be. believing in something requires prajna, which is beyond reason, as many buddhists believe. -anupam On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Dear Anupam jee > > First of all, I don't think in terms of a 'big brother' when I talk of > Hinduism. Hinduism is not a big brother. The problem lies with the meaning > of the word 'Hindu' itself. > > If one looks at say Islam or Christianity, there are definitions of who is > a Muslim/Christian or what is a Muslim/Christian. Yes, indeed, they are ways > of life. The Muslims by and large, are supposed to follow the Koran (which > is their holy book), as per my perception. Even the Christians are supposed > to follow the teachings of the Bible, I feel. The problem comes when one > tries to define what/who is a Hindu. > > There are so many definitions of the word Hindu itself, that one doesn't > know which definition to accept and which to not accept. Some say the word > 'Hindu' comes from the word 'Sindhu' , which was used by the Arabs to > indicate those who lived on the east of the river 'Indus'. For some like > Vivekananda, anybody is a Hindu. For someone like Savarkar, the word 'Hindu' > had political connotations. And for someone like Gandhi, 'any good man is a > Hindu'. And then again, there is no one single common text to be followed by > Hindus, unlike say Islam or Christianity. > > In other words, a person can be Hindu by one definition, and yet not a > Hindu by another definition. And any definition can be acceptable or > unacceptable, depending on personal choice. Therefore, everyone is a Hindu > and again, no one is Hindu. Or in other words, everything is Hindu, and yet > nothing is Hindu. Depends on the choice you wish to make. > And so, the way a Hindu lives can be Hinduism. But then again, since all > people can be Hindus by those definitions, and all people can't lead the > same way of life, Hinduism to me is a combination of different ways of life. > > > Of course, if no one is a Hindu, then Hinduism is nothing, because Hinduism > is an ism which is supposedly followed by Hindus, right? (If capitalism is a > phenomenon dependent upon capital and socialism is dependent upon 'social', > then Hinduism is dependent on 'Hindu' and if no one is a Hindu, Hinduism > doesn't exist) > > And when something is a way of life, it doesn't mean that it's a religion. > It becomes a religion when it is stated that anyone who is not a > Muslim/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist/Parsi/Jew/Christian/etc. is a Hindu. That's when > one gives it the status of religion. > > So why worry if you worship any God? > > PS: The article I like to put up on social polarization, I may not be able > to put up today. I will try to do so by tomorrow. I apologize for the delay. > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 20:25:29 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:25:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <341380d00907050737j2677294dnd343dc2be4663e3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737p1e997dfbvf0b703d14c8c94e3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737j2677294dnd343dc2be4663e3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam ji, I may agree, but a person like Vivekananda would not. He would believe that all are Hindus, and would accept my statement. Infact, that is what he used to say throughout his life time, probably as a result of the influence of his guru (Sri Ramakrishna Paramhans) on him. He always believed that even atheists and agnostics, as well as materialists are a part of Hinduism or Hindu religion, which he considered to be the greatest (This seems to be exactly the big-brotherly attitude I think you wish to refer. I differ from Vivekananda here in the sense that I don't think it's a religion, and moreover, I have no objections with anybody calling himself Hindu or non-Hindu.) As I said, this is what the problem with Hinduism is. The words and categories you have stated are defined and they in a certain sense, exclude people. Hinduism does or doesn't exclude people depending on the definiton you wish to choose. So, each person can decide for oneself whether he/she is a Hindu or not, and it's one's own call. As for myself, as a Hindu, I can say I can say namaaz 5 times a day, pray to Jesus Christ, go to a Buddhist/Sikh/Jain temple or gurudwara, pray to idols, be an atheist or an agnostic, or worship so many idols of gods or goddesses as the case may be, but I can do all this being a Hindu (which corresponds to different ways of life, which can belong to specific religions or ideologies). Hindu is not a religion for me. And if there is any ideology I believe which Hinduism subscribes to, it's a sense of 'dharma' or duty, duty towards all human beings. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 5 22:54:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:24:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] All Hindu-Muslim love marriages under probe Message-ID: <65be9bf40907051024y48694beer820d3f8fd3babfb0@mail.gmail.com> Dear All It seems as if a slow systematic poison of mutual hate and suspicion is being spread through introduction of absolutely deplorable and disgusting measures like one which the story focuses below. I wonder why there seems to be much of focus on this word called 'conspiracy'? Are schemes like national identity cards, not a direct material offshoot of small, seemingly banal, localized, measures of spreading hate/suspicion/panic/insecurity like this one? Is this not a clear institutionalized attempt to lessen the mutual trust of an urban Indian towards other urban citizens who claim to be Indians too. As the story suggests, 'The Criminal Investigation Department (CID), which is meant to probe high-profile cases, will now investigate love affairs that have resulted in marriages between Hindu girls and Muslim boys.The state CID has been told to check whether Muslim boys are enticing Hindu girls as part of a larger ‘conspiracy’.' The underlying assumption in the above argument seems to be - all Muslim men who claim to be Indian citizens are part of a larger 'conspiracy' of Islam to de-rail Hinduism in India. I don't want to undervalue the possibility of a mass reach of these arguments which might be based on an assumed sense of paranoia or panic or insecurity by terming these assumptions as 'outrageous' or 'bizarre' but at the same time I want to most earnestly appeal to all those who can perhaps see the mischief here and urge them to voice their dissent against such measure in the most strongest terms. Warm regards Taha http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Mumbai/All-Hindu-Muslim-love-marriages-under-probe/articleshow/4731209.cms All Hindu-Muslim love marriages under probe 3 Jul 2009, 0426 hrs IST, Sanjeev Shivadekar, TNN MUMBAI: The Criminal Investigation Department (CID), which is meant to probe high-profile cases, will now investigate love affairs that have resulted in marriages between Hindu girls and Muslim boys. The state CID has been told to check whether Muslim boys are enticing Hindu girls as part of a larger ‘conspiracy’. Minister of state for home (rural) Nitin Raut announced this step in the legislative assembly on the last day of its session. BJP MLAs Eknath Khadse and Devendra Fadnavis had alleged in the assembly that young Muslim boys in rural areas were wooing Hindu college girls and then marrying them. This, they claimed, was part of a ‘conspiracy’ to increase the strength of the community. Khadse had further alleged that some Hindu girls had also been sent to the Gulf. In his reply, Raut had admitted that such incidents were taking place in the state. “I will initiate an inquiry into this,’’ the minister had promised. However, the opposition had demanded a CID probe, terming the issue as serious. Raut had then given in to their demands. CID chief S P S Yadav said, “We are still to receive the order. The first thing we will have to do is to check whether such an inquiry is in consonance with the CID manual. If not, we will inform the government about the norms. If the government persists, we will decide on how to carry out these investigations.’’ Raut’s announcement has not gone down well with his cabinet colleagues and leaders of the Muslim community. Senior NCP leader and labour minister Nawab Malik said the BJP had a political interest in raising such issues. “The BJP’s politics has always been based on communalism and this demand too is part of the same theory,’’ he added. Congress leader and minister of state for home (urban) Arif Naseem Khan saidthere was no provision in law where a member of a particular community could be stopped from marrying a girl/boy of another community. “In case a girl or boy is pressured into getting married to a member of another community, the offender should certainly be punished,’’ he added. Refuting the allegations made by Malik and Khan against the BJP, Fadnavis said, “Had we wanted to politicise the issue, we would have carried out a morcha and staged a protest. Instead, we demanded a CID inquiry. This shows that our intention is not to gain political mileage from the issue.’’ When contacted on Tuesday, Raut said, “The inquiry will not be restricted to limited or specific cases and will be statewide.’’ Meanwhile, home department officials too have been left wondering as to how investigations can be conducted into cases where a Hindu girl has married a boy from the Muslim community or vice versa. “Finding such cases and calling the persons concerned for an inquiry would be a lengthy process,’’ an official said, adding that it may even lead to communal disharmony. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 23:30:38 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:30:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] All Hindu-Muslim love marriages under probe In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907051024y48694beer820d3f8fd3babfb0@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907051024y48694beer820d3f8fd3babfb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This is an absolutely atrocious move, particularly as our democracy is supposed to be liberal, and in any case laws are supposed to protect people. Nobody has given the right to the state to regulate the life of the people when there is no threat to others. And if there are any marriages under pressure, they can anyway be brought under existing laws. Ironically, if a Hindu boy were to marry a Muslim girl, the BJP would have no issues with it. And we know the reasons about it. From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 12:06:09 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:06:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] All Hindu-Muslim love marriages under probe In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40907051024y48694beer820d3f8fd3babfb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907052336y208ba3ddn2250b8c62c84abc@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, This news report looks like an extention of the press note for BJP supplied to the news agency in which State CID was made the scapegoat. The exact statement by the CID cheif: "We are still to receive the order. The first thing we will have to do is to check whether such an inquiry is in consonance with the CID manual. If not, we will inform the government about the norms. If the government persists, we will decide on how to carry out these investigations." Raut's statement could mean anything. "I will initiate enquiry into this," My question to news reporter: Enquiry into what??? As my sources have said, there was rejoinder sent to this newspaper for publishing this report in which Maharasthra State CID has said that no such thing was discussed. -thanks Anupam On 7/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > This is an absolutely atrocious move, particularly as our democracy is > supposed to be liberal, and in any case laws are supposed to protect > people. > Nobody has given the right to the state to regulate the life of the people > when there is no threat to others. And if there are any marriages under > pressure, they can anyway be brought under existing laws. > > Ironically, if a Hindu boy were to marry a Muslim girl, the BJP would have > no issues with it. And we know the reasons about it. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lawrence at altlawforum.org Mon Jul 6 12:16:16 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:16:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India Message-ID: <46E7986D-E4E5-47C5-A9E7-1C4E20B9335D@altlawforum.org> Posted on Kafila.org Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India There are surprisingly few constitutional cases in India which have had the same symbolic power that cases like Roe v. Wade (affirming the right of abortion) or Brown v. Board of Education (dissolving racial segregation in schools) have had in the political history of the United States. For sure, there are a number of important constitutional cases which have contributed significantly to the democratic history of India. Kesavananda Bharati’s espousal of the basic structure doctrine, Maneka Gandhi’s introduction of due process in Art.21, but these cases seem to have an appeal largely within the legal fraternity. They are also cases where the relief sought by the petitioners have had little to do with the final outcome of the case, and it is highly doubtful whether his Holiness Kesavananda Bharati had any investment in the long term impact of the basic structure doctrine (not to mention that Kesavananda Bharati just doesn’t roll of the tongue as easily- in terms of recall value). Is it possible then that Naz Foundation v. Government of Delhi is the first equivalent of a case whose name conjures up the history of particular struggle, celebrates the victory of a particular moment and inaugurates new hopes for the future. Before we argue about why Naz has the potential to become a Roe v. Wade, it would perhaps be useful to establish what Roe v. Wade and Brown v. Board of education did for the history of struggles for rights in the US. R v. Wade stands as the dividing line between the Liberals and the Conservatives in the US and in the third presidential debate between Obama and McCain, a significant portion of time was spent discussing judicial nominations, particularly to revisit Rv. Wade. Every Republican president since 1980 has asked for an overturning of Roe v. Wade. R v. Wade emerged at a time when many feminists and women’s rights activists were encouraging State legislatures to liberalise their abortion laws. Given the rather haphazard success in the arena of legal reform, another strategy was to shift the battle to the courts and success in cases like R v. Wade made it irrelevant whether or not there was a success in policy reform. There have been a fair number of critics of this strategy too, with people arguing that political reform is generally more desirable and longer lasting than judicial reform. Ruth Ginsberg for instance has argued that Roe v. Wade actually halted a political process that has been moving in a reform direction. So the first characteristic of cases like Wade is the use of the judiciary and innovative interpretations of the Constitution to settle a controversial area and establish rights for unpopular minorities or to establish a ruling against public morality as defined by the majority. But if this were the only criteria then there would be many more cases with the same appeal and power as Wade and Brown. Both Wade and Brown represent moments in the history of struggle that finally culminated in a judicial victory. These victories have been highly significant because they generally exist in the realm of what we could call the radical politics of impossibility. What would have been impossible to imagine is suddenly made possible through an innovation that does not merely change the conditions of the group whose rights and demands are in question, but changes the horizon of possibility for the law and for constitutional interpretation itself. Thus Roe v. Wade did as much for the expansion of the idea of privacy as it did in establishing the right of women to terminate their pregnancy. These cases are also marked by the fact that they often open a Pandora’s box and are in that sense not the culmination of struggle, but the beginning of one. But even these two reasons would not be enough to establish what is special and enduring about Brown and Wade. These are after all matters of public reason, and public reason rarely the accounts for why things have a special place in our hearts. It therefore might be appropriate then to turn to reasons of the heart to see why something becomes a Roe v. Wade. When Obama was a senator, he voted against the confirmation of John Roberts, the current chief justice of the United States, and a well known conservative. In his speech in the Senate, Obama said Justice isn’t about some abstract legal theory or a footnote in a casebook. It is about how our laws affect the daily reality of people’s lives – whether they can make a living and care for their families; whether they feel safe in their homes and welcome in their own nation. Obama added that while he would agree with 95% of the decisions arrived at by Roberts, ‘ in those 5% of hard cases, the constitutional text will not be directly on point. The language of the statute will not be perfectly clear. Legal process alone will not lead you to a rule of decision. In those circumstances, your decision about whether affirmative action is an appropriate response to the history of discrimination or whether the general right of privacy encompasses a more specific right for women to control their reproductive decisions, the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the judge’s heart. The real success of Wade, Brown and Naz foundation can then be measured not only by their contribution to democratic ethos or the Jurisprudence that they inaugurate but by the tears that they provoke. The spontaneous outburst of emotion on the pronouncement of the Delhi High Court, the tears of joy that people had while listening to the judgment in Court hall No. 1 of the Delhi High court, or from people following it on the news, the telephone calls with people wishing each other happy Independence Day after the judgement – these are the things that legendary cases like Wade and Brown are made of. And these are all the ingredients that seemed to be present in the Naz foundation decision. When was the last time you remember crying about a constitutional decision? Naz foundation decision has also enabled the rekindling of our romance with a text whose recent career has left one a little brokenhearted – the constitution. Justice Pathak in Kesavananda Bharati says that “the constitution is not an arena of quibbling by lawyers with long persons. It is a Heritage or possession and it should be the object of your love”. The Naz foundation judgement once again makes the constitution worthy of our love and affection. It is of course too early to say whether this romance with Naz will stand the test of time, and like all relationships there will be disenchantment, disgruntlement and perhaps even cynicism that will creep in, but for now let us enjoy the slightly trippy lightheadedness that only a new love is capable of providing and toast the much delayed but very welcome arrival of the Roe v. Wade of India. Lawrence Liang From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 6 13:19:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:49:50 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Identification Authority may get more funds in budget- 136 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907060049o26363c32x7a883fa709f4b32a@mail.gmail.com> Dear All When there are all these claims in the media that Naxals are active in 160 out of 604 administrative districts then how will Nandan Nilekani's team carry out their survey for the preparation of a natonal population register? Nandan Nilekani, it seems, is not bothered about these small logistical questions. He seems to have started his work- 'About 150 professionals are being hired, mostly from outside the government, to function as the core team and kick-start the massive project, which was in the offing for the past six years.' Why people are being hired from outside the government? Who are these 150 professionals? I would like to presume that a census survey is a delicate matter which should be handled by the office of Registrar General of India. Who are these people that are hired 'from outside'? One wonders how many of them are from Infosys, Reuters, NCAER and all other organizations where Nilekani had worked before? So great....not only we have a man who heads an amorphous agency regarding an extremely sensitive issue relevant to all Indians and not only he gets a cabinet level berth in terms of status but now he starts to hire people at will, it seems. May I ask, why is this authority alone given a power to hire people from outside? Would it not be great to take out such tenders for every ministry? Why not give Ministry of Petroleum to Mukesh Ambani? I am sure he is a distinguished Indian who will not only bring a wealth of experience to the national level but also make sure that his ministry runs like an efficient machine? I think the such a move may lead to a craving for a feeling of 'sacrifice' amongst other members of the Ambani clan too, wouldn't it? Then lets give Mukesh an element of flexibility to hire people from outside as well as inside? Maybe, afterwards we could start thinking of giving ministry of Finance to someone like a KV Kamath or a Vikram Pandit. The mere fact that these people are who they claim to be must be enough for our sarkaar to give them entire departments. Anyways ....for more on UIDAI please read the story below. Regards Taha In the meanwhile http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/06/stories/2009070656061100.htm Identification Authority may get more funds in budget Vinay Kumar To be housed in a plush building in New Delhi NEW DELHI: The government’s ambitious project to set up the Unique Identification Authority of India, to be headed by Nandan Nilekani, is likely to get Rs. 200 crore more in the Union budget for 2009-10. The authority, coming under the Planning Commission, will be accommodated in a plush building of a public sector undertaking at Connaught Place here, informed sources in the government said. The interim budget had earmarked Rs. 100 crore as the initial corpus. About 150 professionals are being hired, mostly from outside the government, to function as the core team and kick-start the massive project, which was in the offing for the past six years. The sources, however, could not estimate the cost of giving a unique identity number to nearly 1.17 billion citizens. The project will be implemented over the next three years, and estimates by industry sources have put the cost at Rs.10,000 crore. The choice of Mr. Nilekani, who quit Infosys Technologies to head the authority, appears to be along the same lines as the former Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi’s decision to handpick Sam Pitroda to head the technology mission that resulted in information technology and telecom revolution. The new authority will have the flexibility to draw talent from the private sector and build on the core team’s strength. It will help to identify beneficiaries of schemes such as the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme and the Public Distribution System. The government implemented a pilot project last year for issuing multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) in districts of nearly a dozen States and a Union Territory, mostly in the border areas. Nearly 12 lakh cards were issued in the select areas of Jammu and Kashmir, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Uttarakhand, Uttar Pradesh, Tripura, West Bengal, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Goa, Assam, Puducherry and Delhi. The project, initiated by the National Democratic Alliance government, was one of the pet projects of the then Home Minister, L. K. Advani, who reckoned that it could help to check illegal immigration in several parts of the country, which still poses a serious threat to the national security. However, the setting up of the UIDAI was speeded up after the Mumbai terror attacks. The sources said the UIDAI would work on the pattern of the MNIC, focussing on giving identity cards, on a priority basis, to citizens living in the coastal and border States. To begin with, the project is expected to embrace cover Gujarat, Goa, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa and West Bengal, and the Union Territories of Dadara and Nagar Haveli, Lakshadweep, Puducherry and Andaman and Nicobar. People in these States and Union Territories might get their cards by the middle of 2010. According to the 11th report of the Second Administrative Reforms Commission, the project will enable citizens to avail themselves of subsidies on food, energy and education depending on their entitlements. The unique identity card and number, similar to the social security number in the U.S., which was launched in 1936, will require a massive database. The United Kingdom had spent a huge amount for creating the National Health Scheme, which still has inefficiencies. In Europe, Austria, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, Lithuania, Switzerland and the U.K. have forged a population register, and residents are obliged to register their basic information. India happens to be one of the countries where different documents such as passport, voter ID card, driving licence and PAN card are used by the people to establish their identity. The aim is to ultimately have one national identity card that will incorporate the details of a citizen in the national database. From ajmalkamal at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 13:51:04 2009 From: ajmalkamal at gmail.com (Ajmal Kamal) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:21:04 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Reminder: Please Respond to Ajmal's Invitation Message-ID: Ajmal Kamal wants you to join Yaari! Is Ajmal your friend? Yes, Ajmal is my friend! No, Ajmal isn't my friend. Please respond or Ajmal may think you said no :( Thanks, The Yaari Team ----------------------------------------------------------- Yaari Inc., 358 Angier Ave NE Atlanta, GA 30312 Privacy Policy | Unsubscribe | Terms of Service YaariZZC297CBE640BXF825QEZ791 From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 14:42:36 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:42:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737p1e997dfbvf0b703d14c8c94e3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737j2677294dnd343dc2be4663e3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970907060212l292f2945p59aba0972e87d4f9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, I have a diiferent take here about Hindu. The Vedas, Upanishads, Gita and Smrutis (Manusmriti , Yajnavalkya Smruti, Narada Smruti, etc) - The ingredients of Hindu scriptures generally called Sastras- generally have a common thread of Dharma. According to this concept of Dharma, varnadharma is a fundamental thing. Varna ,as we know is a four tiered hierarchical concept of society where the lowest Varna is shudra. The avarnas (comprising Dalits,Adivasis, and many of the OBCs of today) are not even to be considered as humans with any semblance of civic rights. Besides,Women of all Varnas considered par with Shudras. This view of a 'dream Hindu society' is espoused even by Vivekananda when he referred to the possibility of all castes re organized to four varnas in the traditional stye!( Speech at the event of inaugurating advaitashram in Madras some time in the early 20th C- (Teachings of Swami Vivekananda, Advaitasram ,Madras- edited collection of speeches) Again, Vivekanda was bitter against the idea of equality of castes as much as he recognized the institution of caste as the fundamental social scheme to streamline and ensure the smooth going of the society.He suggested that a fisherman would not feel lower in status than a brahman only because of his caste ordained job. Preaching 'food touched by evil people is impure and is best avoided' without defining who are the 'evils', is again, suggestive of his casteist prejudices. It looks like he opposed caste only to reorganize in the traditional pattern of chaturvarna. Many progressives seem to be terribly mistaken by his remark that Kerala was a madhouse; in fact, this remark came in the context of X-stian missionaries trying to proselytize and dalits and OBCs wanting to join X-stian,Muslim and Budhist faiths. Vivekanandan, on another occasion has gone on record that he could (as a Hindu), worship Mohamed, Jesus or be an atheist; but as a Hindu he was never expected to compromise on his Dharma. Guess what this Dharma is..It is nothing but observance of certain uncompromising rituals a Hindu is required to perform; and caste is the core element of these! So you can be atheist, worshiper of Budhha, Muhamed, Jesus or anybody but don't denigrate (Varna) dharma and your sense of purity (caste in modern times) . This is the essence of my understanding of Hinduism based on teachings of Vivekananda, Bhagavadgita and such. This does not prevent me from being happy with the ways reformers like yourself are trying to expand the scope of defining Hinduism in humanitarian terms. Regards, Venu On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Anupam ji, > > I may agree, but a person like Vivekananda would not. He would believe that > all are Hindus, and would accept my statement. Infact, that is what he used > to say throughout his life time, probably as a result of the influence of > his guru (Sri Ramakrishna Paramhans) on him. He always believed that even > atheists and agnostics, as well as materialists are a part of Hinduism or > Hindu religion, which he considered to be the greatest (This seems to be > exactly the big-brotherly attitude I think you wish to refer. I differ from > Vivekananda here in the sense that I don't think it's a religion, and > moreover, I have no objections with anybody calling himself Hindu or > non-Hindu.) > > As I said, this is what the problem with Hinduism is. The words and > categories you have stated are defined and they in a certain sense, exclude > people. Hinduism does or doesn't exclude people depending on the definiton > you wish to choose. So, each person can decide for oneself whether he/she is > a Hindu or not, and it's one's own call. > > As for myself, as a Hindu, I can say I can say namaaz 5 times a day, pray to > Jesus Christ, go to a Buddhist/Sikh/Jain temple or gurudwara, pray to idols, > be an atheist or an agnostic, or worship so many idols of gods or goddesses > as the case may be, but I can do all this being a Hindu (which corresponds > to different ways of life, which can belong to specific religions or > ideologies). Hindu is not a religion for me. And if there is any ideology I > believe which Hinduism subscribes to, it's a sense of 'dharma' or duty, duty > towards all human beings. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From gora at sarai.net Mon Jul 6 15:06:24 2009 From: gora at sarai.net (Gora Mohanty) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:06:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reminder: Please Respond to Ajmal's Invitation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090706150624.5f8096ed@mail.sarai.net> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:21:04 -0400 Ajmal Kamal wrote: > Ajmal Kamal wants you to join Yaari! > > Is Ajmal your friend? [...] Tired of seeing this kind of spam every where? Want to hit back at the spammers, also with a mild name-and-shame to the naif perpetrators that so willingly share their personal data, and address books with filthy scum? Please add such names to the list at http://wiki.linux-delhi.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/DoNotTrustMeWithYourPersonalData Regards, Gora From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Mon Jul 6 18:42:14 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:42:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] this is kolkata and female police: Need for protection of women Message-ID: <809875.48903.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Click on the link: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Shocking_Bengal_Police_Tries_to_Downblouse_a_Women_in_Public/t.jpg&imgrefurl=http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Shocking_Bengal_Police_Tries_to_Downblouse_a_Women_in_Public&usg=__MeUvcsgbW8447glvHDXMe0REMbg=&h=80&w=80&sz=3&hl=en&start=1&sig2=m8mAKr-Wyt-XuFvfrvNPHw&tbnid=F0SqqJzQXkB-fM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=74&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddownblouse%2Bbengal%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff&ei=WPdRSuHMHYqCNIWBhfYP Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 20:50:59 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India Message-ID: <993407.82277.qm@web53609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Lawrence, Brilliant Article.Thanks for sharing! Rahul --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Lawrence Liang wrote: > From: Lawrence Liang > Subject: [Reader-list] Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Cc: commons-law at sarai.net > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 12:16 PM > > Posted on Kafila.org > > > > Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India > > There are surprisingly few constitutional cases in India > which have  > had the same symbolic power that cases like Roe v. Wade > (affirming the  > right of abortion) or Brown v. Board of Education > (dissolving racial  > segregation in schools) have had in the political history > of the  > United States.  For sure, there are a  number of > important  > constitutional cases which have contributed significantly > to the  > democratic history of India. Kesavananda Bharati’s > espousal of the  > basic structure doctrine, Maneka Gandhi’s introduction of > due process  > in Art.21, but these cases  seem to have an appeal > largely within the  > legal fraternity. They are also cases where the relief > sought by the  > petitioners have had little to do with the final outcome of > the case,  > and it is highly doubtful whether his Holiness Kesavananda > Bharati had  > any investment in the long term impact of the basic > structure doctrine  > (not to mention that Kesavananda Bharati just doesn’t > roll of the  > tongue as easily- in terms of recall value).  Is it > possible then that  > Naz Foundation v. Government of Delhi is the first > equivalent of a  > case whose name conjures up the history of particular > struggle,  > celebrates the victory of a particular moment and > inaugurates new  > hopes for the future. > > > > Before we argue about why Naz has the potential to become a > Roe v.  > Wade, it would perhaps be useful to establish what Roe v. > Wade and  > Brown v. Board of education did for the history of > struggles for  > rights in the US.  R v. Wade stands as the dividing > line between the  > Liberals and the Conservatives in the US and in the third > presidential  > debate between Obama and McCain, a significant portion of > time was  > spent discussing judicial nominations, particularly to > revisit Rv.  > Wade. Every Republican president since 1980 has asked for > an  > overturning of Roe v. Wade. > > > > R v. Wade emerged at a time when many feminists and > women’s rights  > activists were encouraging State legislatures to liberalise > their  > abortion laws. Given the rather haphazard success in the > arena of  > legal reform, another strategy was to shift the battle to > the courts  > and success in cases like R v. Wade made it irrelevant > whether or not  > there was a success in policy reform. There have been a > fair number of  > critics of this strategy too, with people arguing that > political  > reform is generally more desirable and longer lasting than > judicial  > reform. Ruth Ginsberg for instance has argued that Roe v. > Wade  > actually halted a political process that has been moving in > a reform  > direction. > > > > So the first characteristic of cases like Wade is the use > of the  > judiciary and innovative interpretations of the > Constitution to settle  > a controversial area and establish rights for unpopular > minorities or  > to establish a ruling against public morality as defined by > the  > majority. But if this were the only criteria then there > would be many  > more cases with the same appeal and power as Wade and > Brown. > > > > Both Wade and Brown represent moments in the history of > struggle that  > finally culminated in a judicial victory. These victories > have been  > highly significant because they generally exist in the > realm of what  > we could call the radical politics of impossibility. What > would have  > been impossible to imagine is suddenly made possible > through an  > innovation that  does not merely change the conditions > of the group  > whose rights and demands are in question, but  changes > the horizon of  > possibility for the law and for constitutional > interpretation itself. > > > > Thus Roe v. Wade did as much for the expansion of the idea > of privacy  > as it did in establishing the right of women to terminate > their  > pregnancy. These cases are also marked by the fact that > they often  > open a Pandora’s box and are in that sense not the > culmination of  > struggle, but the beginning of one. But even these two > reasons would  > not be enough to establish what is special and enduring > about Brown  > and Wade. These are after all matters of public reason, and > public  > reason rarely the accounts for why things have a special > place in our  > hearts. It therefore might be appropriate then to turn to > reasons of  > the heart to see why something becomes a Roe v. Wade. > > > > When Obama was a senator, he voted against the confirmation > of John  > Roberts, the current chief justice of the United States, > and a well  > known conservative.   In his speech in the > Senate, Obama said Justice  > isn’t about some abstract legal theory or a footnote in a > casebook. It  > is about how our laws affect the daily reality of > people’s lives –  > whether they can make a living and care for their families; > whether  > they feel safe in their homes and welcome in their own > nation. Obama  > added that while  he would agree with 95% of the > decisions arrived at  > by Roberts, ‘ in those 5% of hard cases, the > constitutional text will  > not be directly on point. The language of the statute will > not be  > perfectly clear. Legal process alone will not lead you to a > rule of  > decision. In those circumstances, your decision about > whether  > affirmative action is an appropriate response to the > history of  > discrimination or whether the general right of privacy > encompasses a  > more specific right for women to control their reproductive > decisions,  > the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the > judge’s heart. > > > > The real success of Wade, Brown and Naz foundation can then > be  > measured not only by their contribution to democratic ethos > or the  > Jurisprudence that they inaugurate but by the tears that > they provoke.  > The spontaneous outburst of emotion on the pronouncement of > the Delhi  > High Court, the tears of joy that people had while > listening to the  > judgment in Court hall No. 1 of the Delhi High court, or > from people  > following it on the news, the telephone calls with people > wishing each  > other happy Independence Day after the judgement – these > are the  > things that legendary cases like Wade and Brown are made > of. And these  > are all the ingredients that seemed to be present in the > Naz  > foundation decision. When was the last time you remember > crying about  > a constitutional decision? > > > > Naz foundation decision has also enabled the rekindling of > our romance  > with a text whose recent career has left one a little > brokenhearted –  > the constitution. Justice Pathak in Kesavananda > Bharati  says that  > “the constitution is not an arena of quibbling by lawyers > with long  > persons. It is a Heritage or possession and it should be > the object of  > your love”. > > The Naz foundation judgement once again makes the > constitution worthy  > of our love and affection. It is of course too early to say > whether  > this romance with Naz will stand the test of time,  > and like all  > relationships there will be disenchantment, disgruntlement > and perhaps  > even cynicism that will creep in, but for now let us enjoy > the  > slightly trippy lightheadedness that only a new love is > capable of  > providing and toast the much delayed but very welcome > arrival of the  > Roe v. Wade of India. > > > > > > Lawrence Liang > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 22:12:39 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 22:12:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1f9180970907060212l292f2945p59aba0972e87d4f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090705135452.47555.qmail@f5mail-236-227.rediffmail.com> <341380d00907050710x4770ea26ledf6055cecfd0213@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737p1e997dfbvf0b703d14c8c94e3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907050737j2677294dnd343dc2be4663e3f@mail.gmail.com> <1f9180970907060212l292f2945p59aba0972e87d4f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Venu jee I am happy to read this perspective as well. The basic problem with Vivekananda, was something I think he realized very late in his life. His guru, the revered Shri Ramkrishna Paramhans was someone who used to meditate a lot, and one day decided that having lived his life as a 'Hindu', he would now convert to other religions and then see if there is any truth in the statement, 'all religions say the same thing'. He lived as a Muslim, as a Christian, and I think he converted to other religions as well. At the end of all this, he was convinced that the statement indeed is true. Unfortunately for Vivekananda, he could never feel the same, how-so-ever much he tried. And this is ironic for Vivekananda is known to possess very sharp concentration powers and also meditative powers, probably even more than his Guru. But on this particular thing, he couldn't match his Guru at all. My perspective also comes somewhere from Gandhi's views. What is strange about Gandhi is that, he completely changed Hinduism by using two constructs (I have read Aashish Nandy's theory here, and I just repeat the same. Of course, Gandhi himself probably never must have thought in this way, and so don't other historians necessarily). The two constructs were: 1) Anybody who renunciates the material comforts of life is considered sacred or great. This is something which has been the case across ages. Think of Buddha, of Vasistha, of Valmiki once he is supposed to have become a sage, think of even Vishwamitra. The fact is that all sadhus and rishis, who did this (in other words gave up moh-maya), are considered great human beings, worthy of respect. Gandhi used this to ask all, particularly women, to forget about their own lives and its existence, and come out and fight for 'freedom'. He indirectly preached out that this is the only way to get freedom and possibly achieve greatness. The interesting part is that this is something which is the feature of all religions, and also of the folklore and stories told to us regarding 'Hindu' traditions (Hindu simply means things excluding other religions). Gandhi thought of Hindu as a religion, and hence he used it well. 2) This construct is interesting: Feminism is more powerful than masculinity. This is interesting because unlike the first, till his time, there were may be rare or possibly no examples to prove that this was right. But Gandhi believed that Hindu religious texts actually stated this, or at least said so, which is why he laid stress on ahimsa or non-violence. He believed that it's very easy to hit back (which is what a male does or masculinity demands), but it's difficult to experience the beating and thereby make the attacker feel guilty in his conscience. (which he stated is what feminity works on). May be this came because he had utmost respect for his mother, because of which he never touched non-vegetarian when outside India or never thought of any extra-marital relationship. His devotion for Ram too came from his mother. This idea or construct is in direct contrast to the RSS thinking, which believes that feminity is a substitute word for weakness, and what is required for Hindus is to show off their masculinity. While Gandhi used Ram mainly in his idea of Ram Rajya (as a word to depict just and fair rule in India), RSS uses Ram as a warrior who is out to fight the Ravans (read Muslims, Christians and secularists, or non-RSS ideologists) (Here RSS means the Sangh Parivar and not just the RSS). This is why even now, we see that sense of portraying themselves as victims in the speeches of any of the leaders of this parivar. That is why they ask for Hindus to be 'male'. Uma Bharati and Sadhvi Rithambara used to attack the genitals of the Muslims for their being circumcised. Advani always used to put Hindu as a victim who had been fooled in the name of Muslim appeasement. Togadia asks Hindus to organize themselves and teach Muslims a lesson. And Modi justified what happened after Godhra, through Godhra. There's one problem though with Gandhi's ideas, as I see it. One can't be always non-violent, though in principle it's a good value. There are times, when unfortunately one has to be violent, because non-violence would simply mean accepting injustice, which is the gravest sin according to his own words. And here, the RSS struck roots by stating that violence is the solution to remove injustice, and Gandhi was forgotten, thanks to the Partition. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 7 05:30:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 01:00:38 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. In-Reply-To: <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> References: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907061700o39326a2ev4cc2cf3085303162@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, Thank you for your comments on the forward regarding the possible business implications MNIC. I have spent the last few days thinking about what you seem to have suggested and this is what I have to say.... You wrote- - A much heavier and discursively dispersed layer. It was cold war that was seen as giving such legitimacy to the earlier apparatus. Now it a generalised social panic around security that has given such incredible legitimacy to this grandiose, megalomanic ideas and hidden enterprise around it.- Are you be any chance suggesting that during the cold war, the social panic was not generalized? Do you really think the idea of panic was too localized? May I ask what specific categories of general and local are you referring to here? I don't think that social panic which seems to result in, what you kindly term as, 'incredible legitimacy' is generalized nor there is any evidence to support a view that ideas like national identity cards or business enterprises which prospers as a result do so because of megalomania of some clear, traceable social network? Having said that I accept that I may be wrong here and I would be extremely glad to go through any data or theoretical claim on which you might have based your argument. Moreover, I think there is a larger point which needs to be addressed here, which is- that in most of the countries where a national identity card is in operation the reasons for such an exercise are deeply local however the discourse around it seems to usurp some air from global winds on its way. The idea of MNIC in the Indian context was mooted in the face of a perceived threat of illegal immigrants. We have to bear in mind this idea was proposed in the shadow of Kargil Conflict which was a local low intensity conflict. I personally think that if identity documents carry some potential threats then they have their benefits too. I would be very, very hesitant to articulate regimes built around identity documents in a totally dismissive manner by attributing it as a direct offshoot of some wacko conspiracy. Across the world, if the communists or the erstwhile colonies of the empire are adapting regimes of full spectrum identification then maybe its reasoning point to an urge of political dispensation in these countries to perhaps relate to deeper historical nature of authoritarian conditions of governance which is prevalent in these countries. If the so called developed countries of the west resort to identity cards especially during first half of twentieth century then maybe they did so to provide for the 'exigencies of war', or to fulfill a gap of a lack of a centralized state or where there was 'a lack of common law tradition' like in France. The point being if one dismisses any national identity card regime which could have a huge impact on a society like ours, in words and phrases like, 'grandiose' 'megalomaniac' or 'hidden enterprise' which at best seems like a poignant articulation of an emotional outburst, then perhaps one tends to weigh the 'cost' component of this discourse in favor of social obligation component or privacy component. Would you have reacted in the same manner if the central government were to propose to spend one twentieth or a mere 7500 crores instead of what it is spending now? That UIDAI will result in redistribution of public money in favor of private enterprises across the country through contracts and sub-contracts is given. That representatives of beneficiary firms are also stakeholders in the disbursement of public wealth is also known. So what hidden enterprise are we talking about here? That it is a national level program and therefore it is bound to cover everyone like providing education to all or giving shelter to all or giving access to travel to all, so what is so grand about UIDAI which was not there in earlier schemes. I think for us i.e. the citizens of in India, the idea of NIC must act as an important provocation to carefully consider all the views which are presented in the public realm and then maybe we could vigorously debate these arguments to perhaps etch out a critical approach to generate new, different, diverse and overarching set of meanings. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 7 13:02:27 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:32:27 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Union Budget 2009-10: IT gets a new lifeline- 137 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907070032j70c0f71av9ad117f5c0edbe31@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Economy/Policy/Union-Budget-2009-10-IT-gets-a-new-lifeline/articleshow/4746890.cms Union Budget 2009-10: IT gets a new lifeline 7 Jul 2009, 0640 hrs IST, Shelley Singh & Jessica Mehroin Irani, ET Bureau Pranab Mukherjee’s budget has thrown in a lifeline for India’s knowledge and technology industry, which is struggling to cope with slowing global demand and shrinking profit margins, through measures designed to boost domestic demand, ease tax burden and reduce paperwork. “The IT industry has been hit hard by the global slowdown and with this budget the government is putting its weight behind us,” said Pramod Bhasin, chairman of software industry association Nasscom, which had slashed growth targets thrice in the last 12 months. To cheer up the $60-billion industry, the finance minister extended tax sops for IT exporters by one year, removed multiple taxation on packaged software, announced an independent mechanism to deal with taxation of captive units of multinational companies and relieved employers from paying fringe benefit tax – a list that almost completes the demands made by the industry. A slew of e-governance projects announced in the budget such as smart cards for poor families, unique identity card for all citizens and computerisation of employment exchanges that will lead to greater domestic IT spending only adds to the boon. The Central Board of Direct Tax (CBDT) is told to come up with an industry-specific safe-harbour mechanism to decide on how captive software and back-office units of multinational companies that account for 40% of the industry revenue are taxed in India. The decision to extend tax deduction on export profits under Sections 10A and 10B of the IT Act will help companies weather the global storm and stay ahead of competition from other IT destinations. Some players, however, felt the government should have extended the sops for longer than one year. “I’m disappointed that it has not been extended by three years. There will be significant savings as a result of the extension for us in 2010-11 but for 2009-10, the impact may actually be negative because we have to write off the deferred tax assets that we have made provision for,” said Alok Misra, CFO of back-office outsourcing firm WNS. An anomaly in Section 10AA that affected the tax benefits of companies in Special Economic Zones (SEZs) has also been corrected. So long, SEZ units of companies having operations outside the zones were not getting the 100% tax holiday on profits as was promised at the time of introduction of the SEZ regime. “The FM has removed this anomaly by providing that, going forward, the total turnover of the ‘undertaking’ shall be considered instead of total turnover of the ‘assessee’,” said PricewaterhouseCooopers executive director Himanshu Parekh. The decision to remove excise duty and countervailing duty (CVD) on packaged software may help software vendors rebound from a 25-30% fall in sales in the last 12 months and check piracy, while the new norms on FBT will ensure companies are no longer burdened with this extra paperwork. Then there are the big-ticket infrastructure and e-governance projects that will boost the domestic IT market. “The government sector is an important revenue source for the industry when the west is drying up,” said Gartner principal analyst Diptarup Chakraborti. The FM has proposed to nationalise the biometric smart card system for BPL families as well the unique identity cards for all countrymen. The government will spend Rs 120 crore this year on the Unique ID project, which will be implemented within 12-18 months. Increasing the outlay for institutions of higher learning such as IITs and National Institutes of Technology (NITs) to Rs 2,000 crore will help increase availability of skilled talent and boost innovation and research & development. While the budget has addressed issues of small and big IT companies, multinationals and employees alike, it is now up to the industry to take the most out of it. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 7 13:04:20 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:34:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?IAS_officers_keen_to_join_Nilekani?= =?windows-1252?q?=92s_unique_task-_138?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40907070034s46adc099u3d49b01703f2d9ea@mail.gmail.com> http://www.mydigitalfc.com/management/ias-officers-keen-join-nilekani%E2%80%99s-unique-task-427 By KA Badarinath There is a queue of government officials wanting to get into the Unique Identification Authority of India, to be headed by Nandan Nilekani. The Infosys czar is slated to join the authority on July 14 or 15. The authority is tasked with the issue of all-purpose, unique identification cards to all Indian citizens. According to a senior official who wants to remain unnamed, Nilekani has already given the government a list of up to 50 IT professionals from the private sector, including Infosys, he want to bring in. Nevertheless, several IAS officers are believed to be interested in joining his team. Some have already sent their applications through the chief secretaries of states. Cabinet secretary K M Chandrasekhar has shortlisted a few people but wants Nilekani to take the final call on them. The authority will have nowhere near the Rs 10,000 crore outlay that has been speculated about in media. In the interim budget on February 16, just Rs 100 crore had been earmarked for the authority. It now appears that the Monday’s full budget will step it up to Rs 200 crore. Prime minister Manmohan Singh, who handpicked Nilekani for the job, is believed to be inclined to giving him a free hand in both selecting his team and running the project. An office for the authority has already been hired. It will occupy two floors of the Jeevan Bharti building in the capital’s Connaught Circus and have state-of-the- art infrastructure. Nilekani will enjoy the rank of a cabinet minister and directly report to the prime minister, with concurrent functional reporting to planning commission deputy chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia. The economic survey presented to the Lok Sabha on Thursday envisioned a fully functional authority in three months, completion of issue of identity cards to all citizens in six months, and the creation of an integrated database of all actual and potential beneficiaries of government programmes, subsidies and transfers in one year. The survey said, “A household ID could be created simultaneously or in parallel by linking it to a set of unique identifications of individuals constituting the household. These IDs will form the base of a multi-applications smart card system that can be used to empower the poor and ensure that they get the full benefits of all programmes such as the rural employment guarantee programme, public distribution system, education, skill development, health services, social security, fertiliser subsidy, solar lanterns, solar cookers, etc.” The card with a 16-digit identification will gradually replace other ID cards now in use, such as the driving licence, voter ID card, and the permanent account number card. It will be a smart card with 16kb memory. The card will also have cyber security features to make it tamper-proof and cloning-proof. The project envisages preparation of a computerised national register of Indian citizens which will be updated by linking it to birth and death registration offices. The updating will also include changes in address, marital status, name and other details. The number will remain the permanent identification from birth to death of an individual. In the beginning, the number will be assigned to each person on the current electoral rolls. Subsequently, others, including those below 18 years of age and thus not on the voter list, will be added. (With inputs from Vrishti Beniwal) From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Jul 7 13:47:42 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:47:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907061700o39326a2ev4cc2cf3085303162@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907061700o39326a2ev4cc2cf3085303162@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29E5C66D-AE2F-43A7-B08E-69FC4D081823@sarai.net> On 07-Jul-09, at 5:30 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: Dear Taha, If i understand you correctly, you ask the following questions. i) How do i claim that in our times "security panic" is more porous, dispersed and widespread, qualitatively different from the panic created by an earlier epoch of "cold war".? ii) Does cost of production of the I card regime have a bearing on my using many adjectives to call it wrong? iii) How come it is being termed as a "security enterprise" and "hidden", when it is openly being advertised and shown off.? I am trying to think, what could have made me make this assertions. Let me try. I) The panic produced by cold war had a focal point and definition of the "enemy". Its location and presence was noticeable, trackable and available in speech. It was between States and thus managed with an "industrial-military" mega structure. It was drawing on huge social resources to produce these structures and faced enormous social protests on all sides of the fronts. Most of cold-war popular oppositions were against this complex that came up in the name of protecting people. Going through the wiki cold war project, it becomes apparent that the cold war was built on parameters of State to State relationships of antagonism, collaboration, attrition, alignments and sabotage. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Unknown-importance_Cold_War_articles&until=Crocker%2C+Chester In todays "security panic", the enemy is spectral. Who is the enemy? Where will they come from? Strangely also, speechless. This speech vacuum is filled in by all kind of strategist voices from all sides. It is an "enemy" whose biography is impossibly to construct. And, as of now almost no State will own up to any alignment with these enemies. These are figures who are outside the classical security discourse. So the discursive panic is more. Within this context we could maybe locate the ease of the way State is able to announce this project of card for all. It may get consent now than say, 2 decades back. II) Cost of production is always a point in discussion. Especially since it is an expenditure made in the name of public good (safety and welfare). If State suddenly spends 50% of its budget on say standing army, what would you say? I would panic. Simple, it means a form of mobilization that is going to effect social life in very deep ways. It happened in 20th century. People who panicked thought a differently from people who stoically said, let it unfold. Cost incurred into something changes the political and discursive dynamics. We know it from our experience of big dams, SEZ, etc. Same will happen with this I-card project. Do you hear anything critical or another way of looking at JNURM? It is on roll and its effect on urban life will be felt after a decade. The present small hope that still lingers about the popularity of this project is that it is not yet named after a "great leader". Maybe still there is a fear of tarnishing the name if associated with this grand scheme :) iii) All "panics" do produce "enterprises" around them. The Identification card has been launched as an enterprise. My request was yo not lose sight of that in this discussion. It is a huge state spending to a sector of the industry which has been badly hit by global downturn. Since WTO etc makes it difficult for direct subsidies to companies it is through these moves that States will keep it afloat, in the hope of next upturn. Hidden? Why do i say hidden? An apparatus of this kind has to be secretive. The database has to be protected. These are not highways being built. Build and leave. Here these companies will have core divisions merged with State apparatus. These companies became powerful in earlier era. (Lockheedmartin etc.). A kind of apparatus will come in operation almost in stealth that will become impossible to understand, comprehend and discuss. A heavily bloated welfare discourse in europe was instrumental in consolidating the I-cards in many of these countries. Not sure what it achieved. (though somehow it managed to overturn the deep suspicion and fear of identification that came up with WWII experiences). But this discourse of welfare will be under deep strain now with pressure of immigration and it would be most interesting how the earlier identification regimes cope up with these pressures. Either become us or be out of it is now almost the mainstream political language in many countries of europe. Lets see. it is still unfolding. And on the other hand do you remember Rwanda and I-card? Hope this made some clarifications. love jeebesh From bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 14:08:15 2009 From: bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com (Bangalore Film Society ,) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:08:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Free Tree Commune Message-ID: *To be a garden without walls a vineyard without a guardian a treasure house forever open to passers by * *About Us* Since its beginnings in 1976, CIEDS Collective has been a group that has never hesitated to walk the critical edge of new thinking or in exploring new ways of working and living together. While much of our work is activist in nature, as with women, with rural, urban and tribal communities and through the numerous campaigns that we have initiated and been part of, it is rooted essentially in a more reflective praxis that is able to integrate the aesthetic and the analytical. For it has grown around a vision which has always sought the alternative paradigms in knowledge politics, in art and all other dimensions of life, exploring many visions that nurture and sustain lives, livelihoods and lifeworlds . In this context, CIEDS Collective has given birth to many dreams, ideas, institutions and organizations while working on a range Angala, the women’s counseling centre, Kuteera, a shelter for abused women who have no place to live, World Courts of Women, which seeks alternative notions and forms of justice, investigating dowry deaths, caring for the women in the burns ward of Victoria hospital Bangalore, Streelekha, a Women’s Book Place providing books and documentation on women’s writings and alternatives, Appa ke Adalath where the women elders providing justice within communities, working with rural and urban communities and tribals, Bangalore Film Society exploring the poetics of moving images through film festivals on many themes such as Voices from the Waters traveling film festivals highlighting water issues in schools, colleges and in communities, Cinema of Resistance which highlights the people resistance to oppression across the world, livelihood rights, violence against women, and Deep Focus Film Quarterly which provides insightful literature on films, working on environmental issues, art and culture, housing and building crafts, evening lectures, meetings and round tables on various current and critical issues of our times. *The Free Tree Conference and Training Centre* *The Free Tree* Conference and Training Centre is serenely nestled among the hills of Vemgal, Kolar just sixty kms away from Bangalore. Facilities offered include a conference hall, workshop spaces and clean and simple residential accommodation for thirty people all of this finds a natural home in the rock sculpted landscape and vast open spaces that is our space in Kolar. The peace and serenity that greets you at the *Free Tree* is a pleasant change from the hustle and bustle of the city. The surrounding hills are ideal for long casual treks and the view from the top offers you a vision from here to the horizon that just about sums up your experience at the Centre- calming, vitalizing, quaint and altogether- simply breathtaking, even spiritual. * * *The Meaning and the Metaphor* *The Free Tree**, *inspired by the Persian name*, Azad Darakth* for the Neem Tree, an important ecological source of meaning and healing in India and the Asian continent, which was sought to be patented and rendered the private property of a few multinational corporations, is our metaphor for a new way to learn, to know. The Free Tree therefore conjures up many images: of a nurturing space, a nourishing place, a place of shade, of shelter; the tree protects, it connects, to other cosmologies, to other world views; sitting under a tree is very non-hierarchical, even non-patriarchal; it speaks to community, to conviviality; it reminds us of an ethic of care and concern. Almost every culture as we all know has its Tree of Life, its Tree of Knowledge. *The Free Tree is our tree of knowledge.* We welcome you to the tree of knowledge for organizing your seminars, conferences and workshops or if you need to take some peaceful time off for research, writing or just simply because you need to. For details contact: Georgekutty CIEDS Collective, No.33/1-9, Thygaraja Layout, Jaibharath Nagar, M.S Nagar P.O, Bangalore 560 033 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4dD-MxXO1E e-mail; freetreecommune at gmail.com 91-80-25493705/91-9448064513/91-9886213516 From ajai_c at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 15:23:12 2009 From: ajai_c at yahoo.com (ajai chawla) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 02:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Fwd: Public grievances! Message-ID: <257248.57567.qm@web53905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Dr.Jeslyn Hamza To: Amithab Thazheveettil ; ajai chawla ; MC Lukman Ahmed ; ahamed zubair ; Sonali Raj ; arakkath Salahudheen ; sinew raz ; Basheer Sahfi ; ayyankovil cherian ; Fejfar C P ; Dr.RANJITH . ; Lasitha Prasad Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 21:46:08 Subject: Fwd: Public grievances! >Dear All >  > For Your Information : >  > Government of Indiahas an online Grievance forum at > http://darpg-grievance.nic.in >  > Can you imagine this is happening in INDIA? >  > The govt. wants people to use this tool to highlight the problems they > faced while dealing with Government officials or departments like Passport > Office, Electricity board, BSNL/MTNL, Railways etc. >  >  > So use this grievance forum and educate others who don't know about this > facility.  This way we can at least raise our concerns instead of just > talking about the ' System ' in India. >  > Invite your friends to contribute for many such happenings. >  > PLEASE SPREAD THIS MESSAGE IF U WANT OUR INDIA TO HAVE A BETTER TOMORROW & > FORWARD THIS MAIL TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE. >  >  Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 16:36:17 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:36:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Facilitator Needed: Human Rights Documentation Workshop in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Dilnaz Date: 2009/7/6 Subject: Hi Chandni, please pass this around.. thanks Need an experienced person to hold a (human rights documentation) workshop for war widows to teach them to keep track of cases of enforced disappearances in Kashmir. The idea is to empower the surviors from the families of the disappeared, and eventually put them on our payroll. The person has to be available to travel to Kashmir in autumn (Sept-Oct) for about 10-15 days. Costs will be covered. Those interested, please mail dilnazb at gmail.com. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 7 16:46:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:16:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] More than just proof of life- 139 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907070416g3de41f15ne102f189ad360622@mail.gmail.com> Dear All In an opinion piece which appeared in the Indian Express today, Vikram Mehta suggests, ' Government can surely build upon the various identity cards that are already in place to secure these goals. After all there is the PAN card; it identifies the tax payer; there is the BPL card; it provides access to subsidies and other entitlements, etc; there is the ration card — it offers food on concessional terms, etc. I do of course appreciate that these cards cover only a fragment of the population; that they essentially correlate economic condition to economic entitlement and that they do not encapsulate the non-economic facets of an individual’s identity. But these are inadequacies that can be overcome through the incremental application of appropriate technology. They do not require the start of a new project on the scale envisaged.' Furthermore he argues, 'We have to recognise that identity cards have a chequered past. They can be and are used for important but innocuous purposes like determining whether a person should be behind the wheels of a car. They have also however been used for dastardly ends. Identity cards were what enabled Nazi Germany to single out the Jews. Information that empowers an individual does also empower a state.' In a country of a billion people :) we now have at least two individuals of some public standing who think that the whole UIDAI exercise must dealt with a lot more caution and a lot less euphoria, the other gentlemen being Bibek Debroy of course. Vikram Mehta's views are important because he being the Indian head of large multinational conglomerate a.k.a 'the enterprise' one do not necessarily expect him to 'switch ranks' and argue in a skeptical, cautionary tone, nevertheless such views even though they are not articulated in an official capacity are more than welcome anytime.... Warm regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/more-than-just-proof-of-life/486002/0 More than just proof of life Vikram S Mehta Tags : Nilekani, illegal immigrants Posted: Tuesday , Jul 07, 2009 at 0555 hrs IST A project to provide Indians with a ‘unique’ identity can be variously interpreted. Narrowly construed, it can be seen as an effort to contain illegal immigrants; to strengthen security; to arrest misappropriation, misrepresentation and misallocation. Broadly defined, it can be regarded as the harbinger of radical social and economic change; a first step in defining not simply who we are but who we wish to be. How will Nilekani interpret his remit? Will he steer the narrow course or plunge into the broader unknown. I would hope the latter not simply because against the backdrop of the social and economic consequences of globalisation, technology and demography we Indians do need to reflect upon our identity but also because if there is one person who can “imagine” the positives of stretching an idea beyond its conventional limits it has to be Nilekani. A narrow construction of the remit will of course generate value. The plight of Air India; the flow of red ink from the public sector oil marketing companies, the lengthening shadows of power cutbacks — these are just some of the glaring examples of wasteful expenditure, distributive inefficiency and sloppy management. The identity project should help arrest this haemoraging of public resources and avoidable loss. It should plug the leaks that prompted Rajiv Gandhi to comment that of Rs 100 allocated for poverty alleviation barely Rs 15 reached the intended beneficiary. It should help squelch the middlemen and vested interests that today sequester the subsidised petroleum products like kerosene and LPG meant for the poor; that inflate monthly wage bills by somehow adding fictitious names to the payroll; that draw government compensation as teachers or health workers but seldom enter a classroom or dispensary. And on the non-economic front it should make it easier to segregate bonafide citizens from illegal immigrants and strengthen the instruments of internal security. The question is whether such a massive exercise is warranted for these narrow purposes. Government can surely build upon the various identity cards that are already in place to secure these goals. After all there is the PAN card; it identifies the tax payer; there is the BPL card; it provides access to subsidies and other entitlements, etc; there is the ration card — it offers food on concessional terms, etc. I do of course appreciate that these cards cover only a fragment of the population; that they essentially correlate economic condition to economic entitlement and that they do not encapsulate the non-economic facets of an individual’s identity. But these are inadequacies that can be overcome through the incremental application of appropriate technology. They do not require the start of a new project on the scale envisaged. It is therefore to the broader remit that I turn for justification. Amartya Sen explained that identity is not a unidimensional and rigid attribute. People have multiple identities and it is a matter of personal choice and circumstance that determines their dominant identity at any particular point in time or place. A woman executive in office may cloak herself with the identity of a professional. But at home she may decide to doff that in favour of something that signals motherhood and/or housewife. The point is that identity is a fluid concept and whilst there are defining singular attributes like nationality, religion, caste, language or profession, the lens through which people see themselves and others reflect kaleidoscopic overlaps of these attributes. Identity is a shifting composite and individual behaviour reflects this composite. The framers of our Constitution recognised this behavioural relationship. They saw in the Constitution the opportunity to broaden our identity and to thereby alter the dynamics of social relations. Prior to it identity was defined essentially within a social context. People knew their position within society. Caste determined who they met, where they ate; whom they married, etc. Social identity determined social rights. The Constitution stretched the context to cover political rights. Whilst recognising the reality of caste it supplanted it with the category of ‘citizen’ — a political identity that signaled a new freedom and a new equality and which found expression through the medium of universal adult suffrage. This was a deliberate decision taken by people like Rajendra Prasad and Nehru — individuals who knew what they wanted and who turned to the Constitution to give expression to their vision. Of course social identity did not dissolve, but from 1951 onwards it shared space with political identity. Mandal had an equally seminal impact on identity. For it elevated caste from being something of largely local salience to something with a national scope. It became a common badge of economic value. It was the ticket to schools, universities, jobs, politics, etc. It joined the panopoly of identities that dominate behaviour today. We have to recognise that identity cards have a chequered past. They can be and are used for important but innocuous purposes like determining whether a person should be behind the wheels of a car. They have also however been used for dastardly ends. Identity cards were what enabled Nazi Germany to single out the Jews. Information that empowers an individual does also empower a state. Ultimately therefore what redeems a card is the vision and purpose for which it has been designed. Nilekani should therefore ask: What is the vision and purpose of his project? Could it be to open the doors for Indians to push beyond the Mandal era? And if so would it be practically possible to design the system of collating and incorporating data in a way that triggers a reassessment of the relative importance of the different attributes of identity? Can the very process of determining identity lead to its redefinition and thereby to changes in behaviour? Nilekani may choose not to ask these questions but it would be a pity — indeed possibly a lost opportunity, if he fails to appreciate that identities are not simply expressions of the past or the present. They entail visions of the future. The writer is chairman, Shell group of companies in India. Views expressed are personal From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 18:20:37 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 18:50:37 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Amendments to 1973 War Crimes Act Message-ID: The Law Commission recently invited legal experts to give feedback on the 1973 War Crimes Act to make it “current”. In light of this request, Drishtipat has taken an independent initiative to collect legal feedback on the Act, and hereby respectfully present our comments. The primary purpose of these collected comments is to ensure compliance with international standards of due process, so that cases filed under this act are strong enough, and do not get rejected in a future appeals court due to non-compliance with international standards. As Drishtipat is deeply committed to war crimes trials, we also believe it is absolutely essential that the trials conform to international standards, so that the verdicts can be internationally respected and recognized. http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/07/01/1973-war-crimes-act/ Post comments @ URL From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 8 04:17:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 23:47:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. In-Reply-To: <29E5C66D-AE2F-43A7-B08E-69FC4D081823@sarai.net> References: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907061700o39326a2ev4cc2cf3085303162@mail.gmail.com> <29E5C66D-AE2F-43A7-B08E-69FC4D081823@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907071547s605fd986k8c19f0198d4b4ee1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, Thank you for your reply. As always, it was a pleasure to read your thoughts. Although I get a feeling that you seem to compare ideas which were the part of the Cold War in order generate an understanding about so called newer notions like national identity cards. On the other hand, rather than being as distinct as in 'now' and 'then' kind of a scenario, I'd like to see the percolation of these ideas over the years in some sort of continuous fashion. We have to acknowledge the fact much of the 'new', 'changed', 'transformed' world we live in today is perhaps actually run by players, who are part of some institutions. And these institutions have deep institutional memories. The suggestion on your part seems to be, that back then 'the enemy' was recognized and its biographical, social and intellectual map could be constructed and now this does not seems to be the case. 1. To a certain extent I agree with what you say but I do not think that an argument like- now there is no enemy holds any water. I think on the contrary the enemy or the idea of an overarching 'devil' is more delicately constructed now. The case 'seems' remarkably different yet there are too many patterns of similarity. It seems as if the haves of the world have learned their lesson from the mistakes of the cold war. Therefore we are told again and again no one knows who is the terrorist. We are told no one knows where he comes from. No one knows his past. He is a planner. A thinker. We are told. You tell me how more clear can a biography of an enemy could be? The logic has become crystal clear. While the resultant image has become fuzzy. Or is this fuzziness deliberate? Then there are those who would argue that the vacuum left by communists have been filled by the growth of radical Islam. If the global theater of military and media operations was Cuba, Gautamala, El-Salvadore, Vietnam, Afghanistan etc then, it has shifted to Iraq and Afghanistan now. Smaller theaters too like Pakistan, Kashmir, Persia, Palestine, Ethopia seem to occupy some legitimacy. This where the idea of enemy is mobilized and fought with. Strategic incidental locations like New York, London, Madrid, Bombay or Delhi reflect a mega screen like quality where the image of an enemy is continuously projected. Mind you, the canvass offered by these large urban metropolitan centers is huge. It is true that Communists were readily identified but one has to understand that West's relation to Islam is more complex and historically much more deeper. I don't want to go into an argument of the why's and how's of it, at this stage, but I am sure you understand what I am trying to refer to. Your second point was related to the idea of cost. The claim seems to be that when the state expends huge volumes of money in a scheme it results in a change in the dynamics of the discourse. There was a hint of direct proportionality in this argument. Therefore you seem to be concerned that - money invested in the name of safeguarding us from insecurity might lead to a greater investment in making us stay in a panicky condition. Because maybe the assumption was that it is panic which is creating this business in the first place. 2. May I kindly ask which discourse are you referring to here Jeebesh? Are you referring to the pubic discourse or policy or academic or news media or political or general drawing room discussions? For the sake of an argument I will assume that you were referring to a general public discourse. Let me state that I don't buy your argument which co-relates the scale of public spending resulting in an outpouring of discourse or resulting in a change in any political or discursive nature. The causality does not seem to match. The reason being the following- I don't think that in India, there has been any critical public discourse on or about of the largest recipients of public money in the last sixty years. And I am of course talking about the spending on the defense sector here. You have also said that if defense spending were to increase you will panic. Are Indians even bothered as to who gets their money so long as it is asked for 'Defense' ? There seems to be an overriding concern that the moment one starts talking about Defense one has to tread a very careful line. India has fought three wars in last sixty years. Our country's forces have the distinction of being part of the largest occupying army in the world. This year's budget raised the plan outlay for defense by a cool 34% to Rs.1,41,703 crore. Can you please refer the names of five prominent journalists of India of any medium who have written any critical piece on defense spending? Is there any general panic on public forums on this issue? Please tell me, how many articles, posts, replies, responses, observations or comments have you posted Jeebesh on the Sarai list, since it was inaugurated in 2000, which not only focuses on defense sector alone but also articulates a clear conceptual co-relationship between defense spending and a rise in the rhetoric of panic? 15,000 crore was the plan outlay for health in India and the plan outlay for defense is 1,41,703 crore. Malaria is what should be scaring us I think, given that, 935 people died of Malaria in India in 2008. ( http://www.nvbdcp.gov.in/Doc/mal-feb-09.pdf) I wonder, why does this figure not shock people? Why is it that you want to rely on a rhetoric of cold war and whatnot to articulate panic? Whose panic are you talking about anyways? Clearly something is wrong here isn't it. Neither there is any sense of panic at the level of general public discourse when too little money is spent ( as in health) nor there is any sense of panic when too much money is deployed ( as in Defense), I wonder why is that so? Your final point seems to be the most Orwellian. But nevertheless it is interesting. The private-companies-are taking-over argument. My God!!! Their core operations are going to be merged. Now even the lala will know who I am. What should I do now? This is what I call -panic- and not what's happening. As you may have known mailing lists is what made Ogilvy. While writing On Advertising he cites innumerable instances of how he would use databases of names and addresses of consumers to send unsolicited publicity and marketing materials. His co-conspirator in this exercise was a guy named Gallup. The guy who made a living from collecting, classifying, and using databases of harmless civilian consumers to so that they could be persuaded to buy toothpastes. On the one hand I think it would be good for a certain type of business to avail of data of this kind. On the other hand we know of a common practice employed by the US army particularly to buy mailing lists from Ice Cream companies and other FMCG companies and merge this data to generate up to date lists of civilians who could be asked to serve in the army. The point being just as it is necessary for a government to know who is it governing so it is necessary for a private enterprise to know who its end consumers are. Where is the panic here? Did you panic while filling out the form for your Apple laptop or you cell phone? I am sure you knew that this data is traded by companies. If not then I do not know why should you panic if such data were to be given or shared by your government to raise more public money? I know you love cricket Jeebesh and I am sure you must have enjoyed the recent IPL season but do you know how Lalit Mody the man behind IPL came to an irrefutable conclusion that the idea of IPL will sell in India? Warm regards Taha From karimnonvore at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 07:28:30 2009 From: karimnonvore at gmail.com (karimnanvore karim) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 07:28:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] new english monthly magazine from kashmir Message-ID: Dear Friends i am sharing a link conveyormagazine.com for kashmir based monthly english magaznine. wishes From ravig64 at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 13:16:44 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 13:16:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India In-Reply-To: <46E7986D-E4E5-47C5-A9E7-1C4E20B9335D@altlawforum.org> References: <46E7986D-E4E5-47C5-A9E7-1C4E20B9335D@altlawforum.org> Message-ID: Dear Lawrence, Wonderfully argued! Please also deliberate on Justice Kaul's recent High Court judgment on artistic freedoms. It too has larger issues at stake, and plays out in a very contested current debate. Best ravi On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Lawrence Liang wrote: > > Posted on Kafila.org > > > > Is the Naz decision the Rose v. Wade of India > > There are surprisingly few constitutional cases in India which have > had the same symbolic power that cases like Roe v. Wade (affirming the > right of abortion) or Brown v. Board of Education (dissolving racial > segregation in schools) have had in the political history of the > United States. For sure, there are a number of important > constitutional cases which have contributed significantly to the > democratic history of India. Kesavananda Bharati’s espousal of the > basic structure doctrine, Maneka Gandhi’s introduction of due process > in Art.21, but these cases seem to have an appeal largely within the > legal fraternity. They are also cases where the relief sought by the > petitioners have had little to do with the final outcome of the case, > and it is highly doubtful whether his Holiness Kesavananda Bharati had > any investment in the long term impact of the basic structure doctrine > (not to mention that Kesavananda Bharati just doesn’t roll of the > tongue as easily- in terms of recall value). Is it possible then that > Naz Foundation v. Government of Delhi is the first equivalent of a > case whose name conjures up the history of particular struggle, > celebrates the victory of a particular moment and inaugurates new > hopes for the future. > > > > Before we argue about why Naz has the potential to become a Roe v. > Wade, it would perhaps be useful to establish what Roe v. Wade and > Brown v. Board of education did for the history of struggles for > rights in the US. R v. Wade stands as the dividing line between the > Liberals and the Conservatives in the US and in the third presidential > debate between Obama and McCain, a significant portion of time was > spent discussing judicial nominations, particularly to revisit Rv. > Wade. Every Republican president since 1980 has asked for an > overturning of Roe v. Wade. > > > > R v. Wade emerged at a time when many feminists and women’s rights > activists were encouraging State legislatures to liberalise their > abortion laws. Given the rather haphazard success in the arena of > legal reform, another strategy was to shift the battle to the courts > and success in cases like R v. Wade made it irrelevant whether or not > there was a success in policy reform. There have been a fair number of > critics of this strategy too, with people arguing that political > reform is generally more desirable and longer lasting than judicial > reform. Ruth Ginsberg for instance has argued that Roe v. Wade > actually halted a political process that has been moving in a reform > direction. > > > > So the first characteristic of cases like Wade is the use of the > judiciary and innovative interpretations of the Constitution to settle > a controversial area and establish rights for unpopular minorities or > to establish a ruling against public morality as defined by the > majority. But if this were the only criteria then there would be many > more cases with the same appeal and power as Wade and Brown. > > > > Both Wade and Brown represent moments in the history of struggle that > finally culminated in a judicial victory. These victories have been > highly significant because they generally exist in the realm of what > we could call the radical politics of impossibility. What would have > been impossible to imagine is suddenly made possible through an > innovation that does not merely change the conditions of the group > whose rights and demands are in question, but changes the horizon of > possibility for the law and for constitutional interpretation itself. > > > > Thus Roe v. Wade did as much for the expansion of the idea of privacy > as it did in establishing the right of women to terminate their > pregnancy. These cases are also marked by the fact that they often > open a Pandora’s box and are in that sense not the culmination of > struggle, but the beginning of one. But even these two reasons would > not be enough to establish what is special and enduring about Brown > and Wade. These are after all matters of public reason, and public > reason rarely the accounts for why things have a special place in our > hearts. It therefore might be appropriate then to turn to reasons of > the heart to see why something becomes a Roe v. Wade. > > > > When Obama was a senator, he voted against the confirmation of John > Roberts, the current chief justice of the United States, and a well > known conservative. In his speech in the Senate, Obama said Justice > isn’t about some abstract legal theory or a footnote in a casebook. It > is about how our laws affect the daily reality of people’s lives – > whether they can make a living and care for their families; whether > they feel safe in their homes and welcome in their own nation. Obama > added that while he would agree with 95% of the decisions arrived at > by Roberts, ‘ in those 5% of hard cases, the constitutional text will > not be directly on point. The language of the statute will not be > perfectly clear. Legal process alone will not lead you to a rule of > decision. In those circumstances, your decision about whether > affirmative action is an appropriate response to the history of > discrimination or whether the general right of privacy encompasses a > more specific right for women to control their reproductive decisions, > the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the judge’s heart. > > > > The real success of Wade, Brown and Naz foundation can then be > measured not only by their contribution to democratic ethos or the > Jurisprudence that they inaugurate but by the tears that they provoke. > The spontaneous outburst of emotion on the pronouncement of the Delhi > High Court, the tears of joy that people had while listening to the > judgment in Court hall No. 1 of the Delhi High court, or from people > following it on the news, the telephone calls with people wishing each > other happy Independence Day after the judgement – these are the > things that legendary cases like Wade and Brown are made of. And these > are all the ingredients that seemed to be present in the Naz > foundation decision. When was the last time you remember crying about > a constitutional decision? > > > > Naz foundation decision has also enabled the rekindling of our romance > with a text whose recent career has left one a little brokenhearted – > the constitution. Justice Pathak in Kesavananda Bharati says that > “the constitution is not an arena of quibbling by lawyers with long > persons. It is a Heritage or possession and it should be the object of > your love”. > > The Naz foundation judgement once again makes the constitution worthy > of our love and affection. It is of course too early to say whether > this romance with Naz will stand the test of time, and like all > relationships there will be disenchantment, disgruntlement and perhaps > even cynicism that will creep in, but for now let us enjoy the > slightly trippy lightheadedness that only a new love is capable of > providing and toast the much delayed but very welcome arrival of the > Roe v. Wade of India. > > > > > > Lawrence Liang > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 14:56:58 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:56:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need help with an ethnographic docu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please mail me if you have anything to share with Suresh. Thanks. - Chandni From: Suresh Jois Date: 2009/7/8 Hi Chandni, You're one of the more accessible psych professionals I know, so Im asking for your help on the following. Im working on an ethnographic docu on small, self-contained communities who live in areas that are always under threat of natural disasters, disease epidemics, or other types of endemic stress (like high-profile careers). I initially planned to just look at the role that music (work songs, folk songs) played in such communities, but now I feel all cultural artifacts can yield insights into the collective psychology of such at-risk communities. As part of this I need some references to good books and/or approachable experts on Psychographic Analysis, and Content Analysis. Id really appreciate any help on the above. Warm Regards Suresh From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 15:31:00 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 15:31:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslim priests at Shiva temple in Kashmir Message-ID: Muslim priests at 900-yr-old Shiva temple in Kashmir 8 Jul 2009, 1435 hrs IST, PTI PAHALGAM (JAMMU AND KASHMIR): Situated on the banks of the icy Lidder river, a 900-year old Shiva temple is the only Hindu shrine in Kashmir valley which has Muslim priests. After the migration of Kashmiri Pandits from a nearby village, two Muslim priests - Mohmmad Abdullah and Ghulam Hassan kept the doors of the Mamalaka temple open and bells continued to toll. "We not only took care of temple but also held 'aartis' everyday," Ghulam Hasan told a correspondent. Besides ensuring the safety of the 3-feet-long black stone "shivaling", Abdullah and Hassan have ensured no devotee goes without prasad even for a single day. Built by Raja Jai Suria, the temple was once a must stop over for pilgrims going to the Amarnath cave shrine in South Kashmir Himalayas. The temple was for long run by a local association of Kashmir Pandits headed by Pandit Radha Krishen. After his migration from Kashmir in 1989, the temple became a property of the state archaeology, archives and museum department and a protected monument. While leaving, Pandit gave the charge of the temple to his friend Abdul Bhat, a Muslim, and asked him to keep the gates of the temple open. Keeping the promise, Bhat took care of the temple till his transfer from the area in 2004. After that Mohammad Abdullah and Ghulam Hassan were entrusted with the task of maintaining the temple. "We have faith in Lord Shiva. We not only maintained the temple, undertook repairs but also ensured that the temple remains fully functional despite threats from the militants," they said. "We have fulfilled our task of guarding this shrine for Kashmiri Pandits. It is theirs. We wish they return and take back the control of the temple," they said. The temple, which has images of Ganesha, Parvati and Hanuman carved in stone, also houses a natural spring. During the last four years, the number of Hindu devotees to the temple has increased slightly, they said adding these include some visiting Kashmiri Pandit families that left the area as well as tourists. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Muslim-priests-at-900-yr-old-Shiva-temple-in-Kashmir/articleshow/4751800.cms From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 15:42:16 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 15:42:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wanted - One more Liberhan Message-ID: <6353c690907080312g660501f7i5bd61cd087efaf9@mail.gmail.com> Wanted-One more LiberhanIn the November of 1986 dozens of temples were destroyed by the supporters of what is now called PDP in the south Kashmir district of Anantnag.Pandit women were raped, houses burnt and many Pandits were killed in these so called riots.Among the temples destroyed were the ancient shrines of Lord Shiva and the mother Goddess. *No Liberhan Commission was appointed then. read more here - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2009/07/wanted-one-more-liberhan.html Comments welcome! regards Aditya Raj Kaul * From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Jul 8 16:07:28 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 16:07:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907071256r4cfe6cf4i70b6d9c0a3f814be@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907061700o39326a2ev4cc2cf3085303162@mail.gmail.com> <29E5C66D-AE2F-43A7-B08E-69FC4D081823@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907071256r4cfe6cf4i70b6d9c0a3f814be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8481AE2A-67A7-4283-A660-4FED02308EA7@sarai.net> dear Taha, Over last four decades there has been probably countless leaflets, pamphlets, booklets etc published all over South Asia by innumerable people showing concern over the militarization in South Asia. Maybe the archives of the newspaper is not the only place to look for such utterances. Well you may argue that the bread taste the same over generations in spite of changes in how it is made, who makes it, how many eats it, how it effects the digestive system, how it's waste is managed, how it smells, in how many varieties it is available, etc. You are correct in insisting on the taste of the bread :) love jeebesh On 08-Jul-09, at 1:26 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > Dear Jeebesh, > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 17:49:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:49:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wanted - One more Liberhan In-Reply-To: <6353c690907080312g660501f7i5bd61cd087efaf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907080312g660501f7i5bd61cd087efaf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya If a Liberhan would have solved the problem, it would have been a big help. It can't. It has taken 17 years and so many sittings for the truth to be out. Plus making committees and then not taking action on those reports is a part and parcel of any governance. Which is why if I am not wrong, I heard a couple of years back that when a local court stated a former MP (somewhere in the East of India, maybe Jharkhand), to be unaccused in a rape case, that too after 22 years, a few days later, he was killed (allegedly) by the brother of the girl in whose rape the MP concerned was accused. So, therefore commissions are not going to help. What does help is unfortunately what the Gurjar agitation showed in Rajasthan. Go, agitate, create mayhem and violence, and warn others of losing elections, and you get what you want. More than Liberhan, we want a sense of moral consciousness and only an enquiry based on this will ensure justice for the people. Regards Rakesh From nilankur at cultureunplugged.com Wed Jul 8 17:51:36 2009 From: nilankur at cultureunplugged.com (Nilankur) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:51:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need help with an ethnographic docu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B2A7DBD-20CF-428D-94EC-3DF26F32F9BD@cultureunplugged.com> Hello Chandni these films may interest Suresh, please see. http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/474/Pather-Chujaer http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/1036/Under-This-Sun http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/820/Spandar http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/1209/-Chilika-Bank http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/20/Silent-Ghungroo http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/209/Mosuo-Song-Journey http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/1137/Paying-the-price regards nilankur 'frame voice. find vigor' http://www.cultureunplugged.com/filmedia/truthSeekers.php On 08-Jul-09, at 2:56 PM, Chandni Parekh wrote: > Please mail me if you have anything to share with Suresh. Thanks. - > Chandni > > From: Suresh Jois > Date: 2009/7/8 > > > Hi Chandni, > You're one of the more accessible psych professionals I know, so Im > asking > for your help on the following. > > Im working on an ethnographic docu on small, self-contained > communities who > live in areas that are always under threat of natural disasters, > disease > epidemics, or other types of endemic stress (like high-profile > careers). > > I initially planned to just look at the role that music (work songs, > folk > songs) played in such communities, but now I feel all cultural > artifacts can > yield insights into the collective psychology of such at-risk > communities. > > As part of this I need some references to good books and/or > approachable > experts on Psychographic Analysis, and Content Analysis. > > Id really appreciate any help on the above. > > Warm Regards > Suresh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 19:06:00 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 19:06:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] new english monthly magazine from kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47e122a70907080636p2e63d4e0qb276143b8655fdd2@mail.gmail.com> thanks for this dear Nanvore there is really some good stuff inside the design is great some quick reflections ,......... would have like to know the source of the great 1931 images..............there is room to read the images in different ways... ........with our great poet Rahman Rahi ....i guess . he deserves more space, ,...more so when he said the without Kashmiri Language, struggle of any nature in kashmir is meaningless.. may be next issue gives more space on this aspect of why, Kashmiri People could not carry their language with their political freedom stuggle... so is Urdu language a big distraction in Kashmir, many people will disagree... .... i expect some more research on this subject congratulations to the Conveyer Magazine, with love is On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:28 AM, karimnanvore karim wrote: > Dear Friends i am sharing a link conveyormagazine.com for kashmir based > monthly english magaznine. > > > wishes > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 21:19:35 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 21:19:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Verdict challenged in apex court Message-ID: <6353c690907080849v5de4251dif4e1e0a5af76dd76@mail.gmail.com> Decriminalising gay sex: Verdict challenged in apex court*New Delhi, July 8 (IANS)* The Delhi High Court’s verdict decriminalising homosexual sex, which has invited sharp reactions, had been challenged in the Supreme Court. The lawsuit was filed by advocate Suresh Kumar Kaushal, who urged the apex court to review the high court’s July 2 ruling, which struck down penal provisions from sex between two consenting adults of the same gender following an NGO’s petition. Advocate Kaushal may apprise the Supreme Court Thursday of his lawsuit filed on the matter and urge it hear the same at the earliest. In his petition filed before the apex court registry Wednesday, he contended that homosexuality is unnatural, leads to perversion in society and ought not be permitted at any cost. “No one can imagine the consequences of the unnatural acts. Even animals don’t indulge in such activities,” he said in his petition. Kaushal said decriminalising homosexual acts would result in further spread of the HIV virus as “it has been amply proved that the HIV virus is a result of unnatural sex”. -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 23:20:16 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:20:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... Message-ID: <6353c690907081050w6e7c7135wd20d8fcf43cefba2@mail.gmail.com> Hindu guru claims homosexuality can be 'cured' by yoga The world's most popular Hindu guru, Swami "Baba" Ramdev, has claimed homosexuality can be "cured" by yoga in a petition to India's Supreme Court. * By Dean Nelson, South Asia Editor Published: 6:09PM BST 08 Jul 2009* Link - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5780028/Hindu-guru-claims-homosexuality-can-be-cured-by-yoga.html The television guru whose yoga programmes are watched by an estimated 85 million people throughout the world, made the claim in an appeal to the overturn a ruling last week which legalised homosexuality. He has warned he will launch nationwide protests if the ruling is not struck down and said all of India's main religions regarded homosexual acts as sins. In his petition, he argued that homosexuality was a curable disease and that sufferers could seek a cure. "It can be treated like any other congenital defect. Such tendencies can be treated by yoga, pranayam and other meditation techniques," he said. Pranayam are a series of breathing exercises which include hyperventilation, a slow release of breath while chanting "Om". His followers have said there are particular yoga positions which also help prevent sexual urges. The overturning of India's law criminalising homosexuality was welcomed by India's gay community and by campaigners, including several leading designers and Bollywood stars. But it was condemned by Muslim, Christian and Hindu leaders in India. Baba Remdev, who counts senior government ministers among his devotees, issued a particularly strong response. In his petition he compared homosexuals to "other anti-social groups", and said legalisation would have a "negative effect" on the young, while increasing the prevalence of HIV/Aids. "These are unnatural acts not designed for human beings. The decision of the High Court, if allowed to sustain will have catastrophic effects on the moral fabric of society and will jeopardise the institution of marriage itself. This offends the structure of Indian value system, Indian culture and traditions, as derived from religious scriptures," it said. Swami Ramdev remains extraordinarily popular despite a number of controversies surrounding his own ayurvedic medicines. In 2006, a leading Communist MP claimed laboratory tests revealed human and animal remains in his herbal treatments. Other tests supported his denial, but the popularity of his medicines grew regardless. He has also drawn criticism for his claims that yoga and ayurvedic medicines can ease the symptoms of HIV/Aids and cure cancer. His petition was filed as gay activists extended their campaign for equality in other areas of social life. A young couple in Haryana defied their families to stage India's first gay wedding in a Hindu temple. -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 8 23:22:55 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 18:52:55 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On the business of E-Governance. In-Reply-To: <8481AE2A-67A7-4283-A660-4FED02308EA7@sarai.net> References: <65be9bf40907020505m661639b7pe3f9508b7f590f56@mail.gmail.com> <1C1E8EB3-6097-424B-9941-F2BC642DA8DE@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907061700o39326a2ev4cc2cf3085303162@mail.gmail.com> <29E5C66D-AE2F-43A7-B08E-69FC4D081823@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907071256r4cfe6cf4i70b6d9c0a3f814be@mail.gmail.com> <8481AE2A-67A7-4283-A660-4FED02308EA7@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907081052g3c645c62l97997d76bc05aa9b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, Taking the publication of hundreds of thousands leaflets, booklets etc in South Asia in the last five years as an incontrovertible evidence of a vibrant public discourse I am sure we must also concede to an equally vibrant and a raging public discourse going around say effect of tectonic movements on convergent waves in the Indian Ocean or preservation of Bijhwar, Narotia, Bharotiya, Nahar, Rai Bhaina, tribes of Madhya Pradesh or for that matter bread making traditions of India, given that, maybe, hundreds of thousands of leaflets, booklets exist on these topics too. I almost forget the sheer range of topics which are discussed in our drawing rooms, sarais, cafes, tea stalls, and addas. Please pardon me for such an unforgivable omission. Maybe you would not be startled at all if apples were to suddenly taste like rotten oranges one day, but that's your call and I most humbly accept and respect it. I do however feel extremely privileged to be able to exchange some of my unbaked ideas with you :) Warm regards Taha From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 23:35:04 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:35:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907081050w6e7c7135wd20d8fcf43cefba2@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907081050w6e7c7135wd20d8fcf43cefba2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70907081105m589a7bb3y69065ca02d4d3178@mail.gmail.com> this post has amused me to no end. Jai Desi(RamDev)Baba.com he must have heard how how Lord Shiva was once seduced by the Mohini Avtar of Lord Vishnu both males, performed Maithuna ( sex ) as per the myth, popularized by TV. lot of love is On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Hindu guru claims homosexuality can be 'cured' by yoga The world's most > popular Hindu guru, Swami "Baba" Ramdev, has claimed homosexuality can be > "cured" by yoga in a petition to India's Supreme Court. > * > By Dean Nelson, South Asia Editor > Published: 6:09PM BST 08 Jul 2009* > > Link - > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5780028/Hindu-guru-claims-homosexuality-can-be-cured-by-yoga.html > > The television guru whose yoga programmes are watched by an estimated 85 > million people throughout the world, made the claim in an appeal to the > overturn a ruling last week which legalised homosexuality. > > He has warned he will launch nationwide protests if the ruling is not struck > down and said all of India's main religions regarded homosexual acts as > sins. > > In his petition, he argued that homosexuality was a curable disease and that > sufferers could seek a cure. > > "It can be treated like any other congenital defect. Such tendencies can be > treated by yoga, pranayam and other meditation techniques," he said. > > Pranayam are a series of breathing exercises which include hyperventilation, > a slow release of breath while chanting "Om". > > His followers have said there are particular yoga positions which also help > prevent sexual urges. > > The overturning of India's law criminalising homosexuality was welcomed by > India's gay community and by campaigners, including several leading > designers and Bollywood stars. > > But it was condemned by Muslim, Christian and Hindu leaders in India. > > Baba Remdev, who counts senior government ministers among his devotees, > issued a particularly strong response. In his petition he compared > homosexuals to "other anti-social groups", and said legalisation would have > a "negative effect" on the young, while increasing the prevalence of > HIV/Aids. > > "These are unnatural acts not designed for human beings. The decision of the > High Court, if allowed to sustain will have catastrophic effects on the > moral fabric of society and will jeopardise the institution of marriage > itself. This offends the structure of Indian value system, Indian culture > and traditions, as derived from religious scriptures," it said. > > Swami Ramdev remains extraordinarily popular despite a number of > controversies surrounding his own ayurvedic medicines. In 2006, a leading > Communist MP claimed laboratory tests revealed human and animal remains in > his herbal treatments. Other tests supported his denial, but the popularity > of his medicines grew regardless. > > He has also drawn criticism for his claims that yoga and ayurvedic medicines > can ease the symptoms of HIV/Aids and cure cancer. > > His petition was filed as gay activists extended their campaign for equality > in other areas of social life. A young couple in Haryana defied their > families to stage India's first gay wedding in a Hindu temple. > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 8 23:50:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 19:20:32 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] FIPS 201 and India National ID, interoperability anyone? - 140 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907081120n3659208fl71401627305d4912@mail.gmail.com> Unique Identification Authority of India names ‘Secretary of Identity’ by Salvatore D’Agostino, IDmachines A race is on, not unlike the race to the moon and we will see if the United States can catch up with the rest of the planet when it comes to identity credentials. This blog and IDmachines continue to tout the progress that has resulted from HSPD-12, its expansion to the private sector as evidenced by the activities of the 4 Bridges Forum and the continued expansion and evolution of FIPS 201. However, in terms of strong digital IDs, the EU is at 100 million as opposed to 10 million in the US and India just upped the ante. The recent announcement states that India will roll out a national identity credential for 1.1 billion citizens and to get it going by 2010. The India Congress Party actions bode well for the Indian and hopefully global identity industry. It’s not surprising that one of the world’s most dynamic economies and the world’s largest democracy has decided to make identity infrastructure a priority. While not surprising it is impressive that the Indian government leveraged the mandate of the recent election (are you listening President Obama…). India will create a cabinet level position for the Unique Identification Authority of India and has already named their “Secretary of Identity” touting entrepreneur, Nandan M. Nilekani, a founder and former chief executive of Infosys Technologies. Nilekani will leave his post as a co-chairman of the board to take on the ID card project. Here in the U.S. we rightfully want to address finance reform, economic stimulus, expanded health care, climate change and other initiatives. It’s great that the Obama administration has decided to show leadership on these important topics. This blog repeats that creating a national identity infrastructure should be the first step in addressing most of these issues (even emission trading is facilitated by a multi-purpose credential). It seems that the rationale for the investment is well understood in India and articles in the NY Times, Financial Times, Independent, India Times, DNA India, all make points of the benefits of investing in identity. These sources site, among other things, that the program will create 100,000 new jobs, stream line government to citizen disbursement, reduce fraud in benefits to the citizens (e.g. think savings in Medicaid, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, Unemployment Benefits, etc.), and enable secure citizen to government transactions among other things. All represent goals in play in this session of the U.S. Congress. In the U.S. we have yet to realize that identity runs across these programs. Neither Congress or the Obama administration fully realize the leverage an identity investment gives to all of these legislative, policy and economic goals. There are bits and pieces of identity in different bills and no coherent overarching approach. No offense to the ornithologists or vegetarians but we are missing the opportunity to kill more than one bird with one stone. One interesting article even proposed skipping a generation of identity credentials and basing the national ID on a SIM card. This is a fascinating idea particularly given the capabilities of today’s mobile devices. This is clearly the future and while it’s not a likely outcome in the India case (don’t think that mobile devices have sufficiently penetrated to the 1.1 billion individuals who will be covered) but the fact that it’s being discussed shows how an investment in identity has the potential to leapfrog the technology base of countries. Maybe it will be an option and if so it will create a whole new concept of mobility. You have to give props to the Indian government for their initiative and good luck to Nilekani. Not surprisingly IDmachines and many other companies in the identity world will be taking a close look to see how they might get involved. Finally, is anyone making the argument that India should be looking at FIPS 201 as a basis for their credential specification. More than most global ID specifications it meets the needs for multi-use by combining contact and contactless interfaces, logical and physical access control, strong authentication, digital signatures and encryption, and continues to evolve (e.g. match on card, contactless mutual registration, secure channel, elliptical curve, etc.). Is it possible that we could be entering the world of “Identity Diplomacy” where the U.S. Ambassador in New Delhi has interoperable identity credentials as part of his brief? This would certainly be a boon to economic cooperation, and another way to leverage the global investment by industry in FIPS 201. From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Thu Jul 9 06:40:12 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:40:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslim priests at Shiva temple in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <453804.1101.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> a story of peace. Amen! ________________________________ From: M Javed To: sarai list Sent: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009 3:31:00 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Muslim priests at Shiva temple in Kashmir Muslim priests at 900-yr-old Shiva temple in Kashmir 8 Jul 2009, 1435 hrs IST, PTI PAHALGAM (JAMMU AND KASHMIR): Situated on the banks of the icy Lidder river, a 900-year old Shiva temple is the only Hindu shrine in Kashmir valley which has Muslim priests. After the migration of Kashmiri Pandits from a nearby village, two Muslim priests - Mohmmad Abdullah and Ghulam Hassan kept the doors of the Mamalaka temple open and bells continued to toll. "We not only took care of temple but also held 'aartis' everyday," Ghulam Hasan told a correspondent. Besides ensuring the safety of the 3-feet-long black stone "shivaling", Abdullah and Hassan have ensured no devotee goes without prasad even for a single day. Built by Raja Jai Suria, the temple was once a must stop over for pilgrims going to the Amarnath cave shrine in South Kashmir Himalayas. The temple was for long run by a local association of Kashmir Pandits headed by Pandit Radha Krishen. After his migration from Kashmir in 1989, the temple became a property of the state archaeology, archives and museum department and a protected monument.. While leaving, Pandit gave the charge of the temple to his friend Abdul Bhat, a Muslim, and asked him to keep the gates of the temple open. Keeping the promise, Bhat took care of the temple till his transfer from the area in 2004. After that Mohammad Abdullah and Ghulam Hassan were entrusted with the task of maintaining the temple. "We have faith in Lord Shiva. We not only maintained the temple, undertook repairs but also ensured that the temple remains fully functional despite threats from the militants," they said. "We have fulfilled our task of guarding this shrine for Kashmiri Pandits. It is theirs. We wish they return and take back the control of the temple," they said. The temple, which has images of Ganesha, Parvati and Hanuman carved in stone, also houses a natural spring. During the last four years, the number of Hindu devotees to the temple has increased slightly, they said adding these include some visiting Kashmiri Pandit families that left the area as well as tourists. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Muslim-priests-at-900-yr-old-Shiva-temple-in-Kashmir/articleshow/4751800.cms _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Thu Jul 9 06:41:24 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:41:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907081105m589a7bb3y69065ca02d4d3178@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907081050w6e7c7135wd20d8fcf43cefba2@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907081105m589a7bb3y69065ca02d4d3178@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <367729.99639.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Inder Salim Sent: Thursday, 9 July, 2009 6:22:30 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... Even if altering some , should chemicals in brain, we can inverse this natural tendency, the question is how is it directly harmful to individual and society as opposed to by laws of society. Besides what is the cure and what else does the individual loose(Palliative care). In this case, love of a life and trust I guess lol. The society sees sex more carnally with an ulterior motive unsustainable, and justifying the fundamental Sexual bias as nAtural, reinforces popular gender notions and rules, bad news for women. ________________________________ From: Inder Salim To: Aditya Raj Kaul Cc: reader-list Sent: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009 11:35:04 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... this post has amused me to no end. Jai Desi(RamDev)Baba.com he must have heard how how Lord Shiva was once seduced by the Mohini Avtar of Lord Vishnu both males, performed Maithuna ( sex ) as per the myth, popularized by TV. lot of love is On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Hindu guru claims homosexuality can be 'cured' by yoga The world's most > popular Hindu guru, Swami "Baba" Ramdev, has claimed homosexuality can be > "cured" by yoga in a petition to India's Supreme Court. > * > By Dean Nelson, South Asia Editor > Published: 6:09PM BST 08 Jul 2009* > > Link - > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5780028/Hindu-guru-claims-homosexuality-can-be-cured-by-yoga.html > > The television guru whose yoga programmes are watched by an estimated 85 > million people throughout the world, made the claim in an appeal to the > overturn a ruling last week which legalised homosexuality. > > He has warned he will launch nationwide protests if the ruling is not struck > down and said all of India's main religions regarded homosexual acts as > sins. > > In his petition, he argued that homosexuality was a curable disease and that > sufferers could seek a cure. > > "It can be treated like any other congenital defect. Such tendencies can be > treated by yoga, pranayam and other meditation techniques," he said. > > Pranayam are a series of breathing exercises which include hyperventilation, > a slow release of breath while chanting "Om". > > His followers have said there are particular yoga positions which also help > prevent sexual urges. > > The overturning of India's law criminalising homosexuality was welcomed by > India's gay community and by campaigners, including several leading > designers and Bollywood stars. > > But it was condemned by Muslim, Christian and Hindu leaders in India. > > Baba Remdev, who counts senior government ministers among his devotees, > issued a particularly strong response. In his petition he compared > homosexuals to "other anti-social groups", and said legalisation would have > a "negative effect" on the young, while increasing the prevalence of > HIV/Aids. > > "These are unnatural acts not designed for human beings. The decision of the > High Court, if allowed to sustain will have catastrophic effects on the > moral fabric of society and will jeopardise the institution of marriage > itself. This offends the structure of Indian value system, Indian culture > and traditions, as derived from religious scriptures," it said. > > Swami Ramdev remains extraordinarily popular despite a number of > controversies surrounding his own ayurvedic medicines. In 2006, a leading > Communist MP claimed laboratory tests revealed human and animal remains in > his herbal treatments. Other tests supported his denial, but the popularity > of his medicines grew regardless. > > He has also drawn criticism for his claims that yoga and ayurvedic medicines > can ease the symptoms of HIV/Aids and cure cancer. > > His petition was filed as gay activists extended their campaign for equality > in other areas of social life. A young couple in Haryana defied their > families to stage India's first gay wedding in a Hindu temple. > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here. Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Thu Jul 9 06:41:03 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:41:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907081105m589a7bb3y69065ca02d4d3178@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690907081050w6e7c7135wd20d8fcf43cefba2@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907081105m589a7bb3y69065ca02d4d3178@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <234645.79632.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Inder Salim Sent: Thursday, 9 July, 2009 6:32:18 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... One popular notion Hoosexuality is enforced by depression. Jo mila ussi se kaam chala diya. The IPS cadre amused me. If sex starvation can lead to depression, may be baba Ramdev might consider Applying his Yoga skills there. And as far converting into homosexual by choice is concerned the sexual act needs a lot of energy and contemplation, so an inversion is required. Most homosexuals are made by birth, that is one might be curious, but might nt end up being a gay or a lesbo! And wardens should keep a round on block, as far as ragging and seducing is concerned. We still have 377 for that. Kya shuru hoga, said the enraged host, who had hopefully stayed in the hostel. I think the friendliness factor has been popularly replaced by SEX factor, enabling anyone to enforce carnality on such relations, do not bother, it's not affecting your sexual life, if any thing comes out that must be rage for trying to attack you and make you feel guilty for nothing. Nature does not say the female vagina when on a cycle is always open for penetration, that seggregates us humans from other animals I suppose, we know how to make use of such hormones, Naah says the perverted society. ________________________________ From: Inder Salim To: Aditya Raj Kaul Cc: reader-list Sent: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009 11:35:04 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... this post has amused me to no end. Jai Desi(RamDev)Baba.com he must have heard how how Lord Shiva was once seduced by the Mohini Avtar of Lord Vishnu both males, performed Maithuna ( sex ) as per the myth, popularized by TV. lot of love is On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Hindu guru claims homosexuality can be 'cured' by yoga The world's most > popular Hindu guru, Swami "Baba" Ramdev, has claimed homosexuality can be > "cured" by yoga in a petition to India's Supreme Court. > * > By Dean Nelson, South Asia Editor > Published: 6:09PM BST 08 Jul 2009* > > Link - > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5780028/Hindu-guru-claims-homosexuality-can-be-cured-by-yoga..html > > The television guru whose yoga programmes are watched by an estimated 85 > million people throughout the world, made the claim in an appeal to the > overturn a ruling last week which legalised homosexuality. > > He has warned he will launch nationwide protests if the ruling is not struck > down and said all of India's main religions regarded homosexual acts as > sins. > > In his petition, he argued that homosexuality was a curable disease and that > sufferers could seek a cure. > > "It can be treated like any other congenital defect. Such tendencies can be > treated by yoga, pranayam and other meditation techniques," he said. > > Pranayam are a series of breathing exercises which include hyperventilation, > a slow release of breath while chanting "Om". > > His followers have said there are particular yoga positions which also help > prevent sexual urges. > > The overturning of India's law criminalising homosexuality was welcomed by > India's gay community and by campaigners, including several leading > designers and Bollywood stars. > > But it was condemned by Muslim, Christian and Hindu leaders in India. > > Baba Remdev, who counts senior government ministers among his devotees, > issued a particularly strong response. In his petition he compared > homosexuals to "other anti-social groups", and said legalisation would have > a "negative effect" on the young, while increasing the prevalence of > HIV/Aids. > > "These are unnatural acts not designed for human beings. The decision of the > High Court, if allowed to sustain will have catastrophic effects on the > moral fabric of society and will jeopardise the institution of marriage > itself. This offends the structure of Indian value system, Indian culture > and traditions, as derived from religious scriptures," it said. > > Swami Ramdev remains extraordinarily popular despite a number of > controversies surrounding his own ayurvedic medicines. In 2006, a leading > Communist MP claimed laboratory tests revealed human and animal remains in > his herbal treatments. Other tests supported his denial, but the popularity > of his medicines grew regardless. > > He has also drawn criticism for his claims that yoga and ayurvedic medicines > can ease the symptoms of HIV/Aids and cure cancer. > > His petition was filed as gay activists extended their campaign for equality > in other areas of social life. A young couple in Haryana defied their > families to stage India's first gay wedding in a Hindu temple. > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell -  +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Thu Jul 9 07:04:04 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 07:04:04 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Total Ban on Plastics a bad Idea. Message-ID: <379525.5214.qm@web94716.mail.in2.yahoo.com>   Taken Frm TOI. Interesting read .       'Total ban on plastic bags bad idea' 9 Jul 2009, 0358 hrs IST, TNN  Print   Email   Discuss  Share  Save  Comment Text: NEW DELHI: The government made it clear that it is not in favour of a blanket ban on using plastic bags while it is working on use of biodegradable plastic as colouring elements like dyes are a health hazard and thin bags and material can severely jam up sewage systems. Minister of state for environment and forests Jairam Ramesh told Lok Sabha on Wednesday that while reducing plastics was necessary, the material had been promoted initially to save paper and trees. He sought to argue that if municipalities made a better effort to manage their solid waste, the plastic problem would reduce considerably. The government, he said, was working on use of biodegardable plastic as reverting to paper bags could be even more hazardous to the environment. People had switched to use of plastic rather than paper the world over some 20 years ago to slow down deforestation. "Plastic itself is a chemically inert substance, used worldwide for packaging and is not per-se hazardous to health and environment. Recycling of plastic, if carried out as per approved procedures and guidelines, may not be an environmental or health hazard," Ramesh said, assuring the House that the government would have a stringent monitoring mechanism in place to ensure that the right kind of re-cycleable plastic is used. In his response, Ramesh clarified that it was in the wake of the failure of civic bodies to collect and dispose waste that various states like Himachal Pradesh, Jammu and Kashmir, West Bengal and Delhi had resorted to banning use of plastic bags. The government, he said, had notified Recycled Plastics Manufacture and Usage Rules, 1999 (amended in 2003) to regulate the use and manufacture of plastic carry bags, containers and recycling of plastic wastes. "We are moving towards thicker and bio-degradable bags. Bio-degradable is at a nascent stage... some establishments have started using it," the minister said. On the recycling of plastic, he said it would be undertaken in accordance with specifications of the Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS). He also advocated use of jute bags as another alternative to paper bags, as jute was an eco-friendlymaterial. The minister said the government had undertaken a project for conservation of Dal Lake in Srinagar which is expected to be completed in the next three years. Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From ravig64 at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 07:22:27 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 07:22:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] detention centres Message-ID: Interesting story *The Week*At a secret *detention centre* in Delhi, the police and intelligence officers tried *...* returned to*India* to set up Lashkar modules in the national capital. *...* *week*.manoramaonline.com/.../*theWeek*Content.do?. best ravi From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 12:47:46 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 12:47:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Srinivas Rayaprol Poetry Prize 2009: Call for Entries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For details, check out the Poetry Prize poster here: http://groups.google.com/group/options-unlimited/browse_thread/thread/66350871343f49a9?hl=en From: aparna rayaprol Date: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 Subject: Fwd: Rayaprol prize poster Hello everyone, It's getting close to October suddenly and we have to get going on the commitments we made last year.We have decided to go ahead with announcement of the poetry prize on my father's name. I have attached the poster copy to this mail. Can i please seek your help with posting it on the various poetry e-groups that you are both a part of? we are also printing copies and sending it out to various bookstores, libraries etc. any suggestions are welcome. warm regards, Aparna -- Dr. Aparna Rayaprol Department of Sociology & Director, Study in India Program (SIP) University of Hyderabad Hyderabad AP 500046 INDIA Work Phones:91-40-23132808; 91-40-23012910 91-40-23133260 and 91-40- 23010478 sipuoh at yahoo.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Options Unlimited" group. To post to this group, send email to options-unlimited at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to options-unlimited+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/options-unlimited?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 13:04:02 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:04:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] International Seminar on Buddhism and Buddhist Heritage of Gujarat and India - Call for Papers - Jan 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Priyanca Vaishnav ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rajan Barrett Date: 2009/7/9 *International Seminar on Buddhism and Buddhist Heritage of Gujarat and India* *(January 15 and 16, 2010)* * * * * *CALL FOR PAPERS* Buddhism, that propagates the doctrine of *karma*, had made wider changes in the social and cultural scenes of ancient Asia in general, and South Asia and Southeast Asia in particular. In India, at its very beginning, its revolt against the *Brahmanical* supremacy and denial of the complex *Vedic*rituals made it easily acceptable to the greater population. The subsequent periods witnessed several ups and downs for this religious sect under the patronage of several rulers. The region denoted as the present day political state of Gujarat, in its past welcomed Buddhism, which flourished along with Jain and Brahmanical cults ever since the days of Ashoka, the Mauryan emperor. Large number of archaeological evidence in the form of inscriptions, *stupas*, *chaitya* *grahas*, *viharas*, sculptures and images from various parts of Gujarat stand as a testimony to the wide spread of Buddhism in Gujarat. Accounts of Chinese travellers, Hiuen-tsang and I-tsing suggest that both *Hinayana* and *Mahayana* were practiced in Gujarat. Although such a rich heritage of Buddhism is present in Gujarat, many of its attributes and its wider impact on the society of Gujarat needs to be brought to limelight. This can only be achieved by situating Gujarat in the map of the Buddhist world. Therefore, the Government of Gujarat in collaboration with the Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda, Vadodara is organising an international seminar which will highlight the Buddhist traditions of India in general and Gujarat in western India in particular. The proposed international seminar on Buddhism aims at (i) appreciating the Buddhist past of Gujarat through a series of discourses on its archaeology and history, (ii) highlighting the contributions of Buddhism and its philosophy to the culture and society of Gujarat, (iii) promoting documentation and research on Buddhist materials and places in Gujarat, and (iv) conserving and preserving Buddhist sites and pilgrimage centres in Gujarat.. The international seminar will focus on four major themes; *(i) the archaeology and history of Buddhism, (ii) the Philosophy of Buddhism, (iii) Conserving the Buddhist Heritage and (iv) Developing Buddhist Tourism in Gujarat.* Along with the International Seminar and scientific deliberations, we also plan to have philosophical lectures by spiritual leaders and an exhibition of development and decline of Buddhism in India and Gujarat.. The venue of the seminar, *the Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda* has the unique fortune of preserving the holy relics of Buddha. The International Conference will be on *January 15 and 16, 2010*. The conference will be followed by field visits and tours to archaeological sites of Buddhist influence in Gujarat. You are requested to send abstract of your papers/articles based on any of the aforesaid themes so that it can be included in the programme. We will appreciate if you kindly send the abstract by *July 31, 2009*. We are sure that you will find participation in the seminar not only of academic significance but also will give you an opportunity to put philosophical, religious as well as tourist flavour. Financial support will be given to a limited number of speakers from India and abroad, however all possible local hospitality will be extended to all participants by the organisers. Professor Ramesh Goyal (Convenor) Vice Chancellor The Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda Vadodara goyalrk at rediffmail.com Dr. K. Krishnan (Co-ordinator) Department of Archaeology and Ancient History Faculty of Arts The Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda Vadodara krishnan_msu at yahoo.com From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 13:19:46 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:19:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Consultation on Patient Rights, July 11, Dadar, Bombay Message-ID: Details here: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/consultation-on-patient-rights-july-11-dadar From raviv at sarai.net Wed Jul 8 17:55:28 2009 From: raviv at sarai.net (Ravi Vasudevan) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:55:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] a play on Maulana Azad featuring Tom Alter Message-ID: <4A549038.9070900@sarai.net> *A LEGEND, AN ACTOR & A PLAY* *_Tele Booking Opens for_**_PierrotsTroupe_**_s Presentation of_* TOM ALTER in & as MAULANA AZAD */The Biggest Casting Coup in the History of Indian Theatre./* */The First Ever Play on Life, Times and Scholarship ofvMaulana Azad./* */A Wonderful Solo Play, Performed All Over India and Abroad/* *July 12**(Sun)**,**7 pm**, HAMDARD ARCHIVES AUDITORIUM* *HAMDARD UNIVERSITY CAMPUS,**Tughlakabad, New Delhi* *Entry from Gate No 6* *Duration- 2 hrs* *Script and Direction: Dr. M. SAYEED ALAM **/_Tickets: Rs200/-_/* *Available at the venue on day of the show* *For Tele, Corporate, Bulk and Individual booking contact: 9810255291, 9810460366, 40506826, 29944635 and/or write to us at:/pierrotstroupe at yahoo.com, pierrotstroupe at gmail.com/ **-- AND/ORwww.bookmyshow.com **AND/ OR 39895050 Also visit our site:www.pierrotstheatre.com **,* _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 13:35:59 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:35:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Screening of Contemporary Films from Asia, July 10 & 11, NCPA, Bombay Message-ID: Mailer from Asia Society India Centre is here: http://chandni.posterous.com/screening-of-contemporary-films-from-asia-jul From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 9 15:45:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:15:30 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Questions for Nandan Nilekani: Chairman of UIDAI - 141 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907090315k49b6fc94p7b0a77be00ddc426@mail.gmail.com> http://bangalore.citizenmatters.in/blogs/show_entry/1195--questions-for-nandan-nilekani-chairman-of-uidai Questions for Nandan Nilekani: Chairman of UIDAI Editors' Blog EDITORS, 08 Jul 2009 Questions for Nandan Nilekani: Chairman of UIDAI Dear Nandan, The central government recently appointed you, a Bangalorean, as the head of the ambitious Universal Identification Authority of India (UIDAI), and you accepted. Congratulations. Please address one key question to set the right expectations amongst citizens early on. In your book, Imagining India, you have rightly recognised that we are a country full of random, disconnected procedures for IDs and ‘ID proofing’. Everything from passports, to phone lines to ration cards to driver licenses, voter rolls, water connections, BPL cards, gas connections, bank accounts and more involves citizens interacting with a local, state or central government agency, PSU or private utilities. A change of address can be a nightmare. And as many, including yourself have noted, our government departments work in isolation, each having its own database with no linkage to other government databases. The databases are usually not in good shape - problems of data entry, duplicate entries, dead entries, and more. Voter rolls and BPL cards are examples. More importantly, citizens have always had to deal with inconvenience when getting IDs. Given all this, the argument for a universal ID system cutting through crawling bureaucracies and dusty government departments was always going to have appeal, and emotive appeal even. Our question >From what we can gather, in the first phase, the UIDAI is going to focus on helping central government benefit schemes better target hundreds of millions of citizen beneficiaries. This is laudable, but what about state government and local government schemes? You know well that plenty of transactions at the local level are administered by state and local governments. These could definitely benefit from a universal ID too. In your book, you proposed a cross-cutting approach: whenever a citizen approaches any government agency (local, state, national), PSU, bank et cetera, a Universal ID for them could be issued. Are you going to start off with a pilot-like focus on central government schemes or are you going to straight away go with a multi-level programme across centre, state and local? It may be worthwhile clearing this up right away. Wish you all the best. From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 9 15:47:37 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 10:17:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Group Message-ID: <745725.94560.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: manisha sethi Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM Subject: A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Group To: Jamia Teachers Solidarity Group   A Tale of Two Encounters: Dehradun and Batla House   Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group extends its heart-felt condolences to the family of Ranbir Singh, the youth who was killed in a police encounter in Dehradun last week. This encounter again brings to the fore the trigger happy ways of the Indian police who kill and torture for medals and promotions. We demand exemplary punishment for the guilty policemen.   However, the manner in which the Indian State and the mainstream political parties have responded to the encounter in Dehradun is in striking contrast to the reaction to the shooting down of two young men in Batla House in Delhi last September. Both encounters were followed by mass anger and upsurge which spilled onto the streets of the capital cities of Uttarakhand and the country. While the ‘secular’ Congress has put its weight behind the agitation in Uttrakhand, joining the peoples’ demand for fair probe and crying foul over human rights violation, the BJP not to be left behind in the Human Rights race sent its emissary in the form of BJP President’s and Ghaziabad MP’s son to the family of the slain youth to reassure them that the probe into the encounter would be fair and independent, without the involvement of the accused Dehradun Police. A CB-CID enquiry has already been ordered and all police men involved in the shootout have been charged for murder.   Recall now the jingoist hysteria created by Congress and BJP alike, aided by a section of pliant media, in which all calls for independent and impartial enquiry in the Batla House encounter were branded as unpatriotic and downright insulting of the bravery of Special Cell cops.  The Congress, which today preens on the retrieval of its minority vote, persistently bulldozed all demands for a probe into the Batla House ‘encounter’. So much so, that even the simple, procedural requirement for a magisterial enquiry was subverted through the Lieutenant Governor, who refused to grant permission for an enquiry on flimsy grounds. The post mortem reports of the deceased—the killed boys as well as Inspector Sharma—have been accorded the status of State secret.   So, what could be the reason for this speedy demonstration of justice for Ranbir Singh, and the obstinate refusal to concede to the widespread demand for an enquiry into the killings of Atif Ameen and Mohammad Sajid? Except that Atif and Sajid fall in that unfortunate category of ‘encounterables’—those whose killings can be justified, explained, and remain unmourned by our society and polity. It is all right to snuff out the lives of young men as long as they are drawn from a certain demographic and reside in areas identified as ghettoes. What we are being told here is that Atifs and Sajids cannot claim the framework of democratic rights—the only framework that they must exist in is that of national security.     JTSG reiterates its demand for a judicial probe into the Batla House incident, and the application of the same standards of justice for Atif and Sajid as those applied in the unfortunate and tragic case of Ranbir Singh.   Sd/ Manish Sethi and Adeel Mehdi for JTSG       (9811625577 and 9990923027) -- Ambarien Al Qadar From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 9 15:48:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:18:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Work on identification card to start by 2010- 142 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907090318r6aa769byb758222614d6ab4@mail.gmail.com> http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/jul/080709-Unique-Identification-Card-US-return-Delhi-news-2010.htm Work on identification card to start by 2010 By: Surender Sharma Date: 2009-07-08 Place:Delhi The next time your US-return cousin flashes his social security number and extols its virtues, you may also have your Unique Identification Card (UID) to boast of. Along with the Rs 120-crore Budget boost that the ambitious project received, the Centre too has got down to serious work in arming every Indian with a special identification number. The UID Authority of India, a nodal agency working on this project under the Planning Commission, has directed states to immediately designate regional officers and district officers. "We have recently received a letter from the Planning Commission to appoint nodal officers for the UID project at the state level and a divisional commissioner has been appointed for the post," said Chief Secretary of Delhi Rakesh Mehta. The Divisional Commissioner has asked the Delhi government to provide space for the UID project office and recruit staff. "It is an extensive exercise. Except the General Census no such work has been undertaken in the country ever. Even with the Census, there is a databank to refer to. But in this case, we have no such reference point. It's like counting heads. Most likely, the work will start next year when the Census begins," said a senior Delhi government official. Hard work and confusion Though officials are not yet clear about the details of the multi-utility card, based on the social security system of the United States, they say the UID will be a biometric card. "It will be an electronic card with a person's bonafide details, his DNA information, driving licence number, his educational qualification and other data including records of any criminal cases registered against him. However, the biggest hurdle will be making it seamless. There are no instructions yet if dedicated staff will be recruited for the project or work will be outsourced to private agencies," said the official. However, Planning Commission officials said Nandan Nilekani, the co-founder of Infosys Technologies and the head of the UID Authority of India, will soon unravel the details of the project. World view >>In the United States, the Social Security number (SSN) is a nine-digit number issued to US citizens, permanent citizens and temporary (working) residents. The number is issued to an individual by the Social Security Administration. Its primary purpose is to track individuals for taxation purposes. In recent years the SSN has become a de facto national identification number. The first SSNs were issued by the Social Security Administration in November 1936 as part of the New Deal Social Security programme. >>The United Kingdom is in the process of distributing a National Identity card to its citizens. >>A number of countries do not have national identity cards. These include Australia, Canada, Denmark, Ireland, Japan, New Zealand, Norway, the United Kingdom and the United States. Some like Austria, Finland, France, Hungary, Iceland, Sweden and Switzerland have voluntary identity card schemes. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 15:53:12 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 15:53:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Screening of Gaurav Jani's Films, July 18, Bandra Message-ID: You can view the event poster here: http://chandni.posterous.com/screening-of-gaurav-janis-films-july-18-bandr From: Gaurav Jani Date: 2009/7/9 Subject: Invitation - Film screenings Hi, Greetings from Dirt Track Productions and 60kph - Motorcycle Travel Club, India. On July 18th, we are screening both our films One Crazy Ride and Riding solo to the top of the Worldin Bandra, Bombay. Entry to the event is free and you are welcome to invite others. Date: 18 July, 2009 (Saturday) Time: 07:00 PM - 11:00 PM Where: Saint Andrew's Auditorium St. Andrews College, St Dominic Road Behind Holy Family Hospital Bandra (W), Mumbai Please find the invitation in the attachment. We hope to see you there in person. The auditorium is big enough to accommodate 900 people, so please forward the invitation to people who might be interested. I don't want to end up watching the films alone, so a little marketing from your side for the event would do us good. ;-) Trailers of both the films are at the following link. http://dirttrackproductions.com/trailers/ridingsolo/index.html About the film One Crazy Ride: A motorcycle expedition on uncharted roads across the Himalayan state of Arunachal Pradesh, situated in North-east India. But more than an expedition, it's a film on friendship, camaraderie and the "never say die" attitude of five motorcyclists in the face of unforgiving terrain. Shot with no back-up vehicle or film crew, in parts of India hardly seen, filmed or explored, the documentary captures the interactions and experiences of the riders who are trying to chart a route, which according to everyone does not exist. About the film Riding solo to the top of the World: Riding Solo... is an award winning film about filmmaker Gaurav Jani's solo motorcycle journey from Mumbai to one of the remotest places in the world, the Changthang Plateau in Ladakh, bordering China. As a one-man film unit, he astonishes you, filming the landscape he passes by and the people he interacts with, capturing moments of beauty, pain, love, hardship, self doubt and spiritual triumphs. Film website: http://www.dirttrackproductions.com/ If you wish to take a print out of the invitation to share it with others, you can download the high resolution file from http://www.mediafire.com/?m2yiaqnjgyc See you there, Gaurav and 60kph Family From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 16:14:44 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 16:14:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tools for Digital Advocacy Message-ID: The Advocacy 2.0 Guide (Tools for Digital Advocacy) describes some of the best techniques and tools that digital activists - and others who wish to learn from this subject - can use as part of their online advocacy campaigns. While our previous guide (*Blog for a Cause!*) focused on the effective use of blogs as an advocacy tool, this guide will explore creative uses of other web 2.0 applications. http://advocacy.globalvoicesonline.org/projects/advocacy-20-guide-tools-for-digital-advocacy/ From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 16:18:01 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 16:18:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The New Tactics in Human Rights Project Message-ID: The New Tactics in Human Rights project promotes the use and sharing of as wide a range of tactics as possible. The project is coordinated by the Center for Victims of Torture and grew out of its experience as a creator of new tactics and a treatment center that also advocates for the protection of human rights from a unique position—one of healing and reclaiming civic leadership. We hope you will join us and the New Tactics community in developing, using and promoting strategic and tactical thinking within the broad human rights community. http://www.newtactics.org/en From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 16:28:04 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 16:28:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Letter to Jairam Remesh Message-ID: <3457ce860907090358v49190e02i31051a890415772b@mail.gmail.com> Shri. Jairam Remesh Honourable minister Ministry of Environment& Forest, Pariyavaran Bhavan, CGO Complex, Lodi Road, New Delhi- 110003. Dear Shri. Jairam Ramesh, As per the discussion we had with you, you had made it clear to us that the CZM Notification will cease to exist by July 22, 2009. However, your ministry has called for a meeting `for the finalisation of the Coastal Management Zone Notification' on July 11, 2009. Some representatives connected with the fishing community are also called in short notice. We would be happy to receive a clarification from you on the lack of communication between you and the Union Ministry of Environment and Forests. We would also like to know the terms of reference of this meeting and how the outcome of this process will be used for any possible future notification connected with the lives of the coastal people. We would like to emphasise at this point that while many dilutions to CRZ notification have been passed so far on the coastal issues bowing down to commercial interests, the main issue even today is the ongoing violations of the CRZ. No government has taken any action on the thousands of CRZ violations that have taken place all over the coasts, destroying the enviornment as well as the lives of coastal people. Any effort to make changes in laws without considering these factors can only add to the existing coastal problems. We would be very keen to know about your strategies to take action on this. Looking forward to hearing from you at the earliest, T.Peter Secretary - NFF & President - KSMTF No: 55, Garuda Building, GPO Lane, Statue, Thiruvananthapuram-695001, Ph: 0471-3012196, 09447429243 http://www.keralafishworkers.org, http://www.alakal.net From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 17:44:05 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:44:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." Message-ID: <3457ce860907090514p30a042b7t7565e59928ba7707@mail.gmail.com> OK From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 9 20:12:02 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 15:42:02 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On 'critical' Public discourse on Defense in India. Message-ID: <65be9bf40907090742v1864eefaj6ee0bf39fa307381@mail.gmail.com> dear All This is not to discount the vibrant and critical pubic discourse raging across all over India which reflects the concern felt by thousands of peace loving Indians on the most urgent and grave issue of militarization of South Asia and which is perhaps best evidenced by periodic publication of hundreds of thousands of booklets, leaflets and pamphlets, but to humbly suggest that insofar as small sections of electronic press is concerned which are in the business of news production, the view around defense seems to be some what different. The news story pasted below was produced by such a small production house, which incidentally goes by a localized name and calls itself new delhi televison. It appears as if certain section of electronic media, which are of course not the only sources of public discourse, sometimes like to present a favorable view of defense sector which is at times laced with subtle emotions like- Love. Please read the story for more. Maybe one could keep in mind that this year the defense budget was increased by 34% in the name of security even as more that a lakh of farmers have committed suicide because of grave governmental neglect which has resulted in an insecure and volatile market. Whose security does the government is more concerned about is anyone's guess? Meanwhile the budget or rather the proposed budget for UIDAI is 1.5 lakh crore rupees which is a little more than the defense budget. Warm regards Taha http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/why_indian_army_loves_bofors_gun.php Why the Army loves the Bofors gun The Bofors gun continues to give India "an edge" over the adversary on the Line of Control (LoC) and has helped the country to win "artillery duels" till the time the ceasefire came into effect in 2003, Indian Army officers say. "With a range of over 35 kilo metres in the high-altitude terrain, the gun helped us to win artillery duels with Pakistani Army on the LoC till the 2003 ceasefire between the two countries. During that period, after unprovoked shelling by them, we would retaliate with our Bofors howitzers and quietened them up," a senior artillery officer from the Kargil-based 'Forever in Operations' Division said in Kargil. The FH77 Bofors guns, he said, were better than the medium artillery guns available with the Pakistani Army. "Superiority of our gun, which can fire three rounds in 12 seconds, has been proved during the 1999 war and they also know that their guns are of no match to our medium guns. After Kargil, the guns proved their mettle during Operation Parakram in 2001 also where they would fire 80-90 rounds every day causing immense damage to enemy posts and morale," the officers added. During the Kargil war, the gun was extensively used by the Army to dislodge Pakistani Army regulars and militants from Indian peaks after they had intruded into Indian territory in the winters when both the sides vacated their respective posts at high altitude areas. The guns today, the officers said, have been deployed at altitudes ranging between 10-13,000 feet and were helping the Indian troops to achieve "total dominance" over the adversary in the region. "With the Bofors guns now being deployed at such high altitudes and its extended range here, we can strike deep with in the enemy territory. The Bofors can easily take on targets in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) towns such as Skardu and others," they said. Asked about the deployment of the guns at such high altitudes, the officers said that the auxiliary power unit in the Bofors guns made it easy for reaching such heights. "The guns have a Mercedes Benz engine in them and they are able to move short distances on their own. This capability helped us during the war also as guns would move from their location after firing a salvo to other positions in order to avoid enemy counter fire," they said. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 22:53:57 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:23:57 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: 1973 War Crimes Act: getting it right Message-ID: There is now a split within Bangladesh's secular progressive/left-- between those who believe making significant amendments to the 1973 War Crimes Act will only "help the war criminals", and those of us who have taken the position that without international court compliances, war crimes trials for the 1971 genocide, delayed for 38 years, will once again fail. This afternoon, the Bangladesh Parliament passed the 2009 amendment of 1973 Act, with no major amendments. Human Rights Watch has already expressed concern (http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/07/08/bangladesh-upgrade-war-crimes-law). Jyoti Rahman and I co-wrote the lead op-ed in today's paper asking for comprehensive legal review: "In a rush to pass the amendments, insufficient attention has been given to major developments in last three decades in international law, especially as per International Criminal Court (ICC), International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR), and International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia (ICTY)." http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/07/01/1973-war-crimes-act/ From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Wed Jul 1 11:40:04 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (videoNET) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:10:04 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_German_video_art?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=3A_Johanna_Reich?= Message-ID: <20090701081004.E0290F7C.F0B1C171@192.168.0.3> VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest.org is happy to launch the first of a series of features of German video art. dedicated in July 2009 to Johanna Reich - video artist from Cologne/Germany http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=273 "Johanna Reich, a young video artist living and working in Cologne/ Germany, is walking consequently on a performative path in video art, giving the camera, the action or the performative process and the result in form of a video a new and very personal meaning. She involves the audience by provoking the visual senses with unexpected results. Her videos are much closer to performance as a form of contemporary art than filmic narritive or technological aspects, the videos go to the essence of the medium and have something purist we know from Japanese abstract minimalism of Zen, something very spiritual which seems to be very familiar and very strange at the same time. Thus art in its best sense." (Wilfried Agricola de Cologne, curator) Read --> her interview on VIP -VideoChannel Interview Project http://vip.newmediafest.org/?page_id=22 --> her biography on AND - Artists Network Database http://and.nmartproject.net/?p=111 Direct access to the online feature also via http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/2009/dvk-reich-index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ VideoChannel forms together with CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival, VIP VideoChannel Interview Project and VAD - Video Art Database - a unity focussing on art forms of film and video in the framework of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne - www.nmartproject.net the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany info (at) nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 2 15:30:33 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:30:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Invitation for a meeting with NFF Team in Delhi Message-ID: <833BC450-5888-4F73-8BC8-885559087F9A@sarai.net> Invitation for a meeting with NFF Team in Delhi Venue: Press Club, Raisina Road, New Delhi Date: 3rd July 2009 (Friday) Time: 4.00 p.m. Friends ! National Fishworkers’ Forum (NFF) leaders have been in Delhi for the last three days since 30th June, campaigning and meeting with the President of India, Prime Minister, different cabinet ministries, bureaucrats, ILO representatives, etc regarding diverse issues affecting the fisher people and the coasts. They have already met the President, the ministers in charge of Agriculture, Labout and MoEF. NFF has strongly demanded a new Ministry of Fisheries to be set up, that will comprehensively deal with issues of coasts, marine ecology and fishwork. This demand has been summarily put before the Prime Minister and President and the other concerned political leaders. NFF has also been demanding withdrawal of the destructive Coastal Management Zone Notification by the Ministry of Environment and Forests and demanding implementation of the recommendations of Parliamentary Standing committee on the issue, headed by V Maitreyan. NFF leadership also made the demand that India should ratify the ILO convention on fishing and make sure that it become a legislation in India. In order to share the outcome of these meetings and also strategise for the next course of action of the fishworkers’, DSG has organised a meeting with friends and supporters in Delhi after their press conference. NFF leaders including Thomas Kocherry, T. Peter, Vasudev Boloor, RK Patil, Sagar, etc along with other supportive groups’ representatives will address the press at 3:30 pm so please do join if you can or else see you at 4:00 pm. We request you to kindly spread the word around. Thanking you. Pallavi (9868066195) Rohan (9953078167) Vijayan MJ For Delhi Solidarity Group -- ********************************************** Office : CACIM A-3 Defence Colony, New Delhi 110 024, India Ph / Fx : +91-11-4155 1521 [O] madhuresh at cacim.net [Work] www.cacim.net / www.openspaceforum.net Residence : 32-D, DDA Flats, Masjid Moth, Phase I, New Delhi 110 048 Ph : +91-11-2624 2140 (R), +91-98-18 905316 [Mobile] Email : kmadhuresh at gmail.com [Personal] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2207 - Release Date: 06/28/09 17:54:00 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From editor at intertheory.org Fri Jul 3 08:16:14 2009 From: editor at intertheory.org (Nicholas Ruiz III) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] put your theory where your praxis is Message-ID: <434779.59428.qm@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings all! Happy Independence Day weekend! In the name of putting my theory where my praxis is - I am running for Congress in 2010, FL District 24...tell your friends and neighbors! http://intertheory.org/nriiiforcongress2010.html ...and an Independence Day gift: Bjork - Declare Independence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igOWR_-BXJU pax et lux, NRIII Nicholas Ruiz III, Ph.D Editor, Kritikos http://intertheory.org From sunil at cis-india.org Wed Jul 8 12:23:46 2009 From: sunil at cis-india.org (Sunil Abraham) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:23:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Job Vacancy -- CSCS, Bangalore, seeks Programme Associate Message-ID: <4A54427A.7010003.106@cis-india.org> Dear Reader List, The Higher Education Cell, Centre for the Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore, is looking for a Programme Associate for its Social Justice initiative, with a good knowledge of computer applications and web technologies. Ability to communicate effectively with undergraduate students is a pre-requisite. The job involves working closely with HE institutions in three states in the southern and western regions, helping to conduct training workshops in web and multimedia technologies for undergraduate students and teachers, and building and sustaining e-learning communities. The offer is for one year at present, starting August 15, 2009. Consolidated honorarium will be in the range of 18,000-20,000 per month commensurate with experience. Send in applications in soft copy and hard copy, along with an updated CV, to: Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana Higher Education Cell CSCS 827, 29th Main, Poornaprajna Layout Uttarahalli Bangalore 560061 OR Please forward this message to anyone who would be interested in the position. Deadline: July 31, 2009. Shortlisted candidates will be interviewed in person. Thanks, and best regards, Sunil Abraham Director - Advocacy Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore From iram at sarai.net Fri Jul 10 02:20:45 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:20:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Memorial meeting - Tyeb Mehta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A565825.5060302@sarai.net> announcements-bounces at sarai.net wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Memorial meeting - Tyeb Mehta > From: > NGMA Ministry of Culture > Date: > Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:20:12 +0530 > To: > ngma.delhi at gmail.com > > To: > ngma.delhi at gmail.com > > National Gallery of Modern Art (Ministry of Culture) Deeply mourns the sad demise of the eminent artist Tyeb Mehta All are requested to join us for a memorial meeting “REMEMBERING TYEB” on Friday 10th July 2009 at 6.00 pm at National Gallery of Modern Art Jaipur House, India Gate, New Delhi-110003. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 07:45:29 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:45:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 0.5 % of Rs 1618 cr spent for KPs return Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907091915h56fa4c3bgb3b49ec178bde933@mail.gmail.com> *http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/09july10/news1.htm#2* *NEW DELHI, July 9:*The Centre has spent a meagre 0.5 per cent out of the total of Rs 1618.4 crore package announced by it for the safe return and rehabilitation of displaced Kashmiri Pandits. "A package of Rs 1618.4 crore has been announced for return and rehabilitation of Kashmiri migrants to the Valley out of which an initial amount of Rs 8.35 crore (approximate 0.51 per cent) has been released," a senior Home Ministry official said. The relief package, announced in April 2008, include assistance for repair or renovation of damaged houses, continuance of cash and ration relief, scholarship, employment in Government services, financial assistance for self employment and waiver of interest on loans. The official said no family of Kashmiri migrants has returned to the Valley so far despite facilitating their return through construction of houses and providing monetary reliefs. There are 57,981 registered families of Kashmiri migrants residing in Jammu, Delhi and other States. Of these, about 5,000 families are residing in various camps in Jammu and 13 families are staying in camps in Delhi, he said. "Though a number of families have evinced interest in returning to the Valley, so far no family has returned," the official said. The Central Government has approved the construction of 200 flats at Sheikhpura in Budgam district for facilitating the return of migrants. The shrines in Mattan and Kheer Bhavani have been developed into two model clusters containing temporary shelters for Kashmiri migrants where they could be settled temporarily till the time they get their existing residential houses repaired, the officer said. Besides, the Jammu and Kashmir Government has also constructed 18 flats at Mattan and a tenement comprising 100 one-room dwellings at Kheer Bhavani. The Centre has also disbursed ex-gratia of Rs 19.58 lakh, Rs 18.10 lakh and Rs 36.95 lakh during 2008-09, 2007-08 and 2006-07 respectively. The State Government has been providing ex-gratia relief to the next of kins of victims of militancy. A total of Rs one lakh is given in case of death, while Rs 75,000 is being provided in case of permanent disability caused in a terror incident. Compensations of Rs 50,000 and Rs 1,000 are given for grievous injury and minor injury respectively. "Fifty per cent of the loss of immovable property, subject to a ceiling of Rs one lakh is paid as ex-gratia for the property damaged in militancy," he said. (PTI) *0.5 pc of Rs 1618 cr spent for KPs return* __ From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 10:37:33 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:37:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Afghan Genocide: An Open Letter By Dr Gideon Polya (fwd) Message-ID: <1f9180970907092207o3cfb8f67yfda638c5b36bf416@mail.gmail.com> ** Afghan Genocide: An Open Letter *By Dr Gideon Polya* 09 July, 2009 *Countercurrents.org* *An Open Letter sent out to Anti-war groups and Anti-war folks around the world * *Dear Sir/Madam,* I applaud your protests over the Bush (now Obama) wars in Occupied Afghanistan and Occupied Iraq. A 5 decade research career biological scientist, I have been reporting estimates of how many people have died in Occupied Afghanistan since the US-led invasion using UN Population Division data. My recent estimates (2009) are outlined below. For details of methodology see “Obama’s Afghan War”: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/29546/42/ . In Occupied Afghanistan post-invasion non-violent excess deaths (avoidable deaths from deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease) total 3 million; post-invasion violent excess deaths (assuming the same ratio of post-invasion violent/non-violent excess deaths as in Occupied Iraq of 1.3) total 4 million; post-invasion violent and non-violent excess deaths total 3-7 million; post-invasion under-5 infant deaths total 2.3 million; post-invasion avoidable under- 5 infant deaths (90% are avoidable) total 2.1 million; 3-4 million refugees have been generated plus a further 2.5 million Pashtun refugees from the NW Province of Pakistan under Obama war policies – an Afghan Holocaust and an Afghan Genocide as defined by Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention (see: http://www.edwebproject.org /sideshow/genocide/convention.html ). Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention (see: http://www.edwebproject.org /sideshow/genocide/convention.html ) states “In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: a) Killing members of the group; b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.” Much of this carnage is due to US Alliance violation of Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War which demands that an Occupier must provide life –sustaining food and medical requisites to the conquered population ”to the fullest extent of the means available to it” (see: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm ) – yet the “total annual per capita health expenditure” permitted by the Occupiers in Occupied Afghanistan is merely $29 as compared tot $6,714 in the Occupier country the USA (see WHO: http://www.who.int/countries/en/ ). The carnage does not stop there – we must also note the 0.7 million global opiate drug-related deaths since 2001 (circa 3,000 in the UK ) due to US Alliance restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan industry from about 6% of world market share in 2001 to about 93% at present (see UN ODC World Drug Report 2007: http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/ data-and-analysis/WDR-2007.html ) . Appallingly, there are only a couple of scholars currently identifying this continuing catastrophe as an Afghan Genocide, notably myself (on the basis of the above data) and top humanitarian US lawyer Professor Ali Khan (on the basis of the US Alliance policy of attempted extermination of an Indigenous religious group, the Taliban) (see: http://www.countercurrents.org/polya080208.htm ). A final damning statistic: the “annual death rate” is 7% for Occupied Afghanistan under-5 year old infants - as compared to 3% for inmates of the Nazi Buchenwald Concentration Camp and 10% for Australian prisoners of war of the Japanese in World War 2 (for which crimes Axis generals were tried and hanged) (see: http://gpolya.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/08/2907231-obama- holocaust-denial-in-buchenwald-cairo-speeches-?groupId=1350 ). Peace is the only way but silence kills and silence is complicity. Please tell everyone you can. Yours sincerely, Dr Gideon Polya, Melbourne, Australia *Dr Gideon Polya* published some 130 works in a 5 decade scientific career, most recently a huge pharmacological reference text "Biochemical Targets of Plant Bioactive Compounds" (CRC Press/Taylor & Francis, New York & London, 2003). He has recently published “Body Count. Global avoidable mortality since 1950” (G.M. Polya, Melbourne, 2007: http://mwcnews.net/Gideon-Polyaand http://globalbodycount.blogspot.com/ ); see also his contribution “Australian complicity in Iraq mass mortality” in “Lies, Deep Fries & Statistics” (edited by Robyn Williams, ABC Books, Sydney, 2007): http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ ockham/stories/s1445960.htm). He has just published a revised and updated 2008 version of his 1998 book “Jane Austen and the Black Hole of British History” (see: http://janeaustenand.blogspot.com/ ) as biofuel-, globalization- and climate-driven global food price increases threaten a greater famine catastrophe than the man-made famine in British-ruled India that killed 6-7 million Indians in the “forgotten” World War 2 Bengal Famine (see recent BBC broadcast involving Dr Polya, Economics Nobel Laureate Professor Amartya Sen and others: http://www.open2.net/thingsweforgot/ bengalfamine_programme.html). When words fail one can say it in pictures - for images of Gideon Polya’s huge paintings for the Planet, Peace, Mother and Child see “Truth , Beauty & Saving the World – Science, Art & Nuclear, Greenhouse & Poverty Threats”: http://sites.google.com/site/artforpeacepl anetmotherchild/truth-beauty-saving-the-world . -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 14:16:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:16:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <234645.79632.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <6353c690907081050w6e7c7135wd20d8fcf43cefba2@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907081105m589a7bb3y69065ca02d4d3178@mail.gmail.com> <234645.79632.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Since people have raised the question of homosexuality not being natural, I would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their evolution, human beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so (though mostly in the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very early history of existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that natural? There must have been a time when it must have been decided that women have to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, would that have been natural? The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether something is natural or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take place with time, and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being natural or not, if the scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and these scriptures are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they can't be considered 'natural'. The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a minority in India, and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That is certainly true as of now. Regards Rakesh From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 14:36:18 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:36:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] " We must fight to change history"- Mumia Abu -Jamal addressing Socialism 2009 Conference in Chicago, hosted by Campaign to End the Death Penalty Message-ID: <1f9180970907100206u166693d3gbf7c97723526ac31@mail.gmail.com> We must fight to change history July 7, 2009 Mumia Abu-Jamal is one of America's most famous political prisoners. Falsely convicted of shooting Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner and sentenced to death in 1982, Mumia's trial was notoriously corrupt--with prosecutors keeping Blacks offthe jury and judge Albert Sabo overheard commenting that he was "going to help 'em fry the nigger." Since his conviction, Mumia, a former Black Panther and journalist, has tirelessly spoken out from behind bars as a "voice for the voiceless," even as he has fought for his own freedom. He delivered the following remarks via speakerphone to a meeting at the recent Socialism 2009 conference in Chicago--the session was hosted by the Campaign to End the Death Penalty . [image: Protesting in support of Mumia Abu-Jamal in San Francisco (Danny Howard)]Protesting in support of Mumia Abu-Jamal in San Francisco (Danny Howard) WE'RE ALL alive at an amazing hour in American and world history. Like many of our grandparents--in my case, my parents--we're living an age of truly momentous economic upheaval, when temples we once thought were impervious to the passage of time are crumbling before our eyes. When I speak of temples, I speak not of religion, but of wealth and corporate power. Why is this relevant to a group of abolitionists like you all? Because as industry slows, as unemployment rises, as tax bases dwindle into dust, states begin looking into expenditures, and the death penalty fails, if not on moral grounds, than on the basis of economics. It costs too much. The governors of quite a few states did simple cost-benefit analyses, and reasoned that housing costs, staffing costs as well as trial and appellate costs, are simply too much for cash-strapped states to bear. It's racist, yes. But they can afford that. Is it unjust? Yes, but they can afford that. Does it violate the Constitution and international law? Yes, but they've tolerated such violations for decades. In a capitalist state, it comes down to money. Does that mean don't organize? No. Does mean people can just wait? No. As socialists and other radicals have learned anything, it's that nothing is inevitable. Marx said, "History does nothing. It 'possesses *no* immense wealth,' it 'wages *no* battles.' It is, rather, *man*, real living man who does all that, who posses and fights." Today, feminists would rush to edit his words to include women, and they would be right. Men and women. And youngsters and abolitionists must struggle and fight to change lives and history. That's part of what you're doing today. What is broken either must be fixed or replaced. Who can deny that the system is broken today? Will it be fixed or replaced? That's for you to decide, that's for all of us to decide. I thank you all. Ona move, long live John Africa, long live revolution. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 10 15:00:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:30:53 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nandan Nilekani: Exporting Indian innovation-143 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907100230h12aa9519nc59366ede5fe9623@mail.gmail.com> http://www.ciol.com/News/Interviews/Nandan-Nilekani-Exporting-Indian-innovation/9709122087/0/ Nandan Nilekani: Exporting Indian innovation Nandan Nilekani has been recently inducted into the government by the Prime Minister of India, Manmohan Singh. To head the Unique Identification Authority of India, a new agency set up by the government to issue national biometric identity cards across the country. Nilekani is former co-chairman of Infosys. Lately he has been on the global talk circuit discussing his book, Imagining India: The Idea of a Renewed Nation, which describes the ideas that guided India's development and the challenges to cementing India's future as a global power. He spoke with David Talbot, Technology Review's chief correspondent, about the use of technology to revitalize Indian society and the potential for exporting Indian innovation. The text of the interview appears in the July 2009 issue of the Technology Review, the first ever English edition of the 109-year old journal from MIT brought to India by technology publisher CyberMedia. David Talbot, Technology Review: If you were the Prime Minister of India, how would you use technology to address growth and solve problems? Nandan Nilekani: I think there are many roles for technology, particularly information technology, in the Indian context. First, we can use it for better delivery of public services – whether it is government, health care, education, or whatever. Second, we can use technology for identifying beneficiaries, especially the poor, so the correct people get entitlements from government. There is the whole issue of using technology for land records so that we can have much smoother land transfers and reduce litigation. You can use IT for improving national security. You can use it for tax collection. There is a proposal in India to implement the goods and services (GST) tax, which can only be implemented using IT. Throughout government, technology can play a very big role. DT: Can India become an important supplier of new technologies, delivering innovation to the rest of the world? NN: Already, it is. Many Indian companies have created innovative business models that are fundamentally disruptive, for example, ICICI Bank and Bharti, which are now getting exported globally. ICICI Bank offers services in the UK and Canada and Bharti is seriously looking at servicing international markets. DT: What telecom innovations are you referring to? NN: Telecom companies have been able to create very profitable operations and at the same time dramatically reduce the price of phone calls as well as the value of each recharge. They have been able to create high volume, very low cost, high quality solutions. And as they go and offer these abroad as a service, they will be competing aggressively with local providers. They have managed to come up with ways of sharing infrastructure, for example, making investments in technology on a variable basis. Instead of spending a lot of money buying capital equipment, they pay their technology partners on the basis of the usage of the equipment – the partners are paid for each minute that is spoken. So they are able to transfer a capital cost into an operating cost. This has created a whole new business model that is very elegant and disruptive. And this came out of necessity – everybody couldn't afford to invest capital in rural areas. DT: What about innovations in banking and health care? NN: ICICI Bank is able to offer banking transactions at much lower cost than any existing banks. So when they offer their transactions in a foreign country, they are very competitive on phone banking and Internet banking, because everything they have done efficiently leverages technology. In electronic banking and mobile banking, the number of innovations is very high and can be transferred. In health care, many of the Indian hospitals, such as Narayana Hrudayalaya, have come out with the ability to do a high volume of operations, including heart surgery, at a very reasonable price. DT: Beyond exporting efficient business models, can India become a major exporter of new technologies? NN: Yes, many people are developing products in health care and communications that could be exported. Some estimates hold that 750 million Indians will own mobile phones in the next few years. DT: What impact can or might these numbers have on India? NN: Mobile phones are already having a huge impact in India. When you look around you see people from all walks of life using them. Ninety percent of mobile phones in India are prepaid and 40 percent have recharge of less than 10 rupees. I think this is empowering people in many ways. It is enabling them to get employment; enabling them to find prices for things they are selling, so they can get the best possible prices; enabling them to get information on weather and farming. DT: One of the great visions is that phones will allow even the poorest – or almost the poorest – Indians to secure bank accounts and loans on fair terms. NN: Yes, it can provide financial inclusion by giving everybody access to banking services, to get a loan. It can provide for ways to get cash transfers from the government to the poor. The mobile phone applications are limited only by our ability to conceive of things that can be done. Yet many of the efforts in this direction are still just pilot projects. DT: What has to happen to implement them at large scale? NN: The reason we have so many pilots is that every pilot is being done by different institutions with different technologies. Very much like the U.S. health care system today – there is no common way for hospitals to exchange medical records. Similarly, if you really want to do financial services on a mass scale, you need standardization of financial records, standardization of citizen identification, rules for interoperability of data, and so on. Since those are lacking, you end up with a lot of fragmented applications but nothing which is scaled up. The reasons for such challenges are often not technical – they are either political or economic. In government departments there is a normal tendency not to share data. We fundamentally need to get out of that mindset. Where businesses are involved, there is commercial interest in not wanting to share the data. Governments have a huge role to define the sandbox in which you will play. They need to define the framework with common data formats, interoperability, and formal technical standards. Within that, of course, businesses can innovate and develop solutions. The key is aligning multiple stakeholders in different segments to come together and bring about standards. DT: Let's talk about Infosys specifically. What challenges need to be overcome to make Infosys the largest IT services company in the world? NN: I think Infosys is fundamentally extremely well positioned to become the trusted partner of choice for business transformation for companies around the world. We want to keep accelerating change in our business model because the world is developing fast. We need to offer software-as-a-service and more platform-based services. One of the solutions we now offer is procurement. Instead of just providing the IT for procurement, we tell customers we will take over the procurement function and share in any savings they are able to get. DT: Infosys caught the IT services wave. Is there a new technology opportunity for the young companies in India today? NN: The IT services industry is going through a fair amount of metamorphosis. We are seeing the rise of things such as cloud computing, software as a service, mobility-based solutions, and sensor-based transaction tracking where sensors monitor goods and the movements of things. Indian IT services firms often claim they have tons of innovative new technology – but that they can't talk about it very much, because what they build is the property of their clients. DT: Could you talk, at least generally, about some of the emerging technologies Infosys has built for clients? NN: Many of our applications, especially our newer applications, are based on mobility – using mobile phones, synchronizing mobile phones. We are doing a lot with social commerce using the context of social computing to give businesses far more intimate contact with their customers. We are also building an application where we are essentially making retail stores more intelligent by putting sensors on goods so we can see what customers are buying. Based on people's choices we can point out for them, on the mobile phone, special offers in the aisles they are in at the moment. DT: Infosys has sometimes suggested that its real value to clients is in the new business processes they've helped develop. Could you give us a specific example? NN: We are working with Alstom, which is a French power company. We are working with Cisco on things such as order processing, and we've been able to bring in process transformation there. From dnyan21 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 15:53:50 2009 From: dnyan21 at yahoo.com (vaid theite) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... Message-ID: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who say that it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying homosexuality is natural? In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations in anthropology, I think. Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? Dnyan --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > Since people have raised the question > of homosexuality not being natural, I > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > evolution, human > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > (though mostly in > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > early history of > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > natural? > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > that women have > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > would that have been > natural? > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > something is natural > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > place with time, > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > natural or not, if the > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > these scriptures > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > can't be considered > 'natural'. > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > minority in India, > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > is certainly > true as of now. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 16:01:30 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:01:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or a father. It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to this fact. Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common people have consensus on decriminalization. @ Inder 'Converted' Salim Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It helps Homosexuals too. Just everybody. Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. Cheers On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite wrote: > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who say that > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying homosexuality is > natural? > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations in > anthropology, I think. > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > Dnyan > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > Since people have raised the question > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > evolution, human > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > (though mostly in > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > early history of > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > natural? > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > that women have > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > would that have been > > natural? > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > something is natural > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > place with time, > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > natural or not, if the > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > these scriptures > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > can't be considered > > 'natural'. > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > minority in India, > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > is certainly > > true as of now. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Aditya Raj Kaul From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 10 16:05:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:35:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Now a Nepali ID card- are we witnessing an ID-Cards Ripple Effect? Message-ID: <65be9bf40907100335ofcdb4e4t9a78ef1fe343640@mail.gmail.com> Dear All That the Indian ID card exercise is being sold as a 'unique', a 'grandiose', and a 'historical' project in human identification is something which needs to be thought through very carefully. Especially now, when one sees one more country in the South Asian region expressing a desire to identify all its citizens. The move though, has begun on predictable lines. The arguments though, are also predictable. The initial category of social groups to be verified and coded will of course be the poor and the non-residents Nepali citizens. The two relevant portions, which pertains to identity cards, of this rather long speech made in the Nepali parliament, on July 09th 2009, introducing Nepal government’s Policies and programmes for the fiscal year 2010/2011, are reproduced below for your perusal- -Distribution of ‘State-Privileged Identity Cards’ will be initiated in order to raise the living standards of families living below the poverty line, and priority will be given Identity Card while providing services by the Government authorities including in education, health, food, employment etc.- -Arrangements will be made for severe punishment to prohibit kidnapping, rape, drug- trafficking, allegations of witchcraft, untouchability, etc. Necessary steps will be taken to eliminate the social evils like the dowry system. Arrangements will be made for the protection of the rights and interests of the Nepalese migrant workers and investment of their skill and capital into the country will be encouraged. Non-resident Nepalese will be provided with special identity cards and encouraged to take part in the development campaign of Nepal.- One has to bear in mind, that both the neighbors of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh has already got their national identity cards. The arguments presented in favor of introducing it must have been similar and as we can perhaps see that with god's grace, shukr-e-alhumdo-lillah- there is hardly any problem related to security, terrorism, illegal immigrants in these nations. Moreover we can also see that all government schemes are functioning properly, and there is no problem at all related to hunger or distribution of foods and other essential commodities. It goes without saying the vibrant democracy is thriving in both these countries and the overall happiness of all citizens has seen a marked increase in the years since the identity card was introduced. One must of course view skeptically what media reports, for I am sure there would be hundreds of thousands of leaflets, booklets and pamphlets which documents other views pertaining to 'critical' public discourse also. I would of course keep a track of the development of ID story in Nepal, however I would be deeply grateful to any member of the list who could kindly share with us any story which relates to how the discourse related to ID cards is unfolding in their respective countries. And while we are at it, may I suggest a caveat too - No literature regarding pamphlets, booklets, and/or leaflets please, although it would be nice to have a look at them now and then, but the urgent need of the hour is get the perspective of big media and the State first. There is view that, logic of industrialization is becoming more apparent with every passing government agreeing to a national identification drive, just like an individual consumer can 'taste' the same burger everywhere in the world irrespective of who produces it, where it is produced, how many cycles it goes through and so on, now it seems that the governments all over the world can 'taste' the same power too- of having total control over the most fundamental knowledge concerning people- who the State wants to see and identify as 'citizens' ; irrespective of who makes the technology, who processes the information, who cashes the bill, who packages the identity card and who distributes it. I just wish that things were as simple and as clear as they appear to be. With warm regards and love towards all Taha Nepal government’s Policies and programmes for the fiscal year 2010/2011 July 09th 2009. - Nepal government’s Policies and programmes for the fiscal year 2010/2011 Rt. Hon Speaker, It gives me pleasure to present before this Legislative Parliament the Policies and Programmes for the fiscal year 2066/067 on behalf of the coalition Government constituted with a view to creating a just, equal, strong, independent and prosperous Nepal while undertaking the obligation to write a new constitution reflecting the spirit of the historic People's Movement and the people’s aspirations through the Constituent Assembly within the stipulated time-frame by strengthening mutual dialogue, consensus and collaboration. We have entered a new era of the Federal Democratic Republic by ending the aged old feudal monarchy and overcoming the long, difficult and historic phases of the struggle. As I address the Legislative Parliament for the second time in my capacity as President of the Republic of Nepal, I would like to recall the various aspects of the lives and struggles of the activists of the movement who fought to build a democratic and just Nepal. At this historic moment, I offer my respectful tributes to all the martyrs who have sacrificed their invaluable life for the cause of the nation. Likewise, I also offer my deep respects to the wounded freedom fighters. I would also like to put stress on the need for eliminating the unimaginable agonies of the disappeared, displaced and conflict-affected families. It has been more than a year when the Constituent Assembly was elected by the sovereign people of Nepal for writing a new constitution. More than two years have elapsed since the Comprehensive Peace Accord was signed with the commitment to move forward towards sustainable peace and democracy by ending the series of violence and counter-violence. However, the responsibilities to take the peace process to a positive conclusion, to undertake the restructuring of the State, and to write the new constitution through the Constituent Assembly have yet to be accomplished. Rt. Hon. Speaker, National consensus among the political parties is extremely important to attain the epoch-making transformations sought by the people. The Government is committed to establish constitutional supremacy, to ensure the rule of law and good governance, to implement the understandings and agreements and to take the peace process to a positive conclusion by eliminating anarchy, insecurity and impunity. Making a new constitution within the stipulated time-frame on the basis of national consensus, restructuring of the state, ending feudalism and achieving rapid economic development together with socio-economic transformation are the main priorities of the Government. Border security will be strengthened by consolidating Nepal's sovereignty, territorial integrity and national unity. Laws and regulations will be changed to institutionalize the Federal Democratic Republic. The Government will expedite and facilitate the work of the state restructuring commission created to assist the Constituent Assembly in institutionalizing federalism. Property belonging to the former royal family, both within the country and abroad, will be investigated and utilized for the good of the nation. Constitutional supremacy, independence of the judiciary, human rights, civil and fundamental rights, press freedom, the rule of law, democratic system based on multi-party competition and the fundamental rights of the oppressed class, caste, region, gender and communities will be guaranteed. Crimes and anarchy prevalent in the society will be controlled by strengthening the law and order situation, and impunity will be eliminated. A code of conduct will be developed and enforced so as to make all State mechanisms including the administration and the security agencies impartial and accountable in order to guarantee safety and security to the people. Arrangements will be made to address the security grievances of the people instantly by launching a campaign “Peace and Security: Expectations of the People”. The civil administration, Nepal Army, Armed Police Force, Nepal Police and other security agencies will be run on the basis of the prevailing laws in order to ensure the rule of law and good governance. They will be kept away and free from party politics. The civil service and the security agencies will be made impartial, professionally efficient, and accountable to the people. A special plan will be implemented to stop the acts of obstructing major roads and essential services in the name of “bandhs” (closures) by forging national consensus. A system of third-party insurance will be implemented to end road obstructions owing to traffic accidents and such road obstructions will be cleared by rapid deployment of security agencies. A special policy will be adopted to guarantee peace and security in the districts, to ensure justice and good governance, to implement development plans in time and with the required quality standard, and to make the district administration and police chiefs efficient and accountable to monitor the construction works. The agreements made by the Government of Nepal with the Madhesi People's Rights Forum and the United Democratic Madhesi Front will be implemented. However, a high-level monitoring committee will be formed to monitor the status of implementation of agreements with various parties while leaving all matters related to the constitution to be decided by the Constituent Assembly itself. The process of inclusion in all State organs and levels of women, Dalits, indigenous groups, Madhesi and inhabitants of the Terai, indigenous groups of the Terai including Tharus, Muslims, minorities, people with disabilities and the people of the backward regions will be carried forward on the basis of social justice and in a forward looking manner. The inclusion-related Bill currently under consideration of the Legislative Parliament will be moved forward. A high-level commission will be formed to define, identify and respect the martyrs. A systematic record of individuals who have attained martyrdom at different times will be maintained. Attention will be given to the development of the various regions where fighters of the democratic movement had sacrificed their lives. The Commission on the Investigation of Abuse of Authority and other agencies related to judicial administration will be strengthened to control corruption effectively. Additional legal and institutional arrangements will be made to stop irregularities at all levels of the State. Procrastination will be ended by establishing transparency and accountability. National consensus will be forged to hold elections of the local bodies. Interim arrangement as per the constitutional provision will be made to run the local bodies until elections are held. Agreements made by the Government with the different political parties in the past and the commitments made in parliament will be implemented. Reports of various inquiry commissions and committees will be made public and their recommendations expeditiously implemented. All legitimate demands put forward by the workers, peasants, women, youths, students, teachers, professors, intellectuals, doctors, engineers, lawyers, civil servants, journalists, entrepreneurs, cultural artists, the landless, the squatters, the conflict-affected, the displaced, freed bonded labours (Kamaiyas), the Haliyas, Badis, and the disabled will be gradually fulfilled through mutual dialogue. The supervision, integration and rehabilitation of the combatants of the Maoist army and management of arms will be done in accordance with the provisions of agreements including the Comprehensive Peace Accord signed between the Government of Nepal and the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist). The supervision, integration and rehabilitation of the combatants of the Maoist army will be carried out prior to the completion of the task of writing the new constitution. The national security policy will be formulated in keeping with the suggestions of the Legislative-Parliament and political consensus. The national peace and rehabilitation commission, the high-level truth and reconciliation commission, the high-level state structuring suggestions commission, the commission for the investigation of the disappeared will be constituted/re-constituted. The act of monitoring of implementation and compliance of the understandings and agreements will be done by the national peace and rehabilitation commission. All kinds of conflicts and problems that have come up in the Terai-Madhes and some other parts of the country will be resolved through talks and dialogue. However, violent and criminal activities will not be tolerated. Relief and rehabilitation works will be undertaken for the benefit of the conflict-affected and displaced people. Construction of 'Health Shelters’, one each in the five development regions, will be initiated for the care of the conflict-affected senior citizens. A Sarjak Ashram will be established in Kathmandu for the respect and security of the senior national figures. Priority will be given to mechanisms which are capable of providing quick services to the people and which have multiple uses, while special priority will be given to the reconstruction of the physical infrastructures damaged during the conflict. A People’s Movement and Martyrs Memorial Museum will be established in Gokarna, Kathmandu. Planned development of the Narayanhiti Museum will be made. Construction of the Republic Monument will be completed. A national ethnic museum will be established in Champadevi, Kathmandu. The State will help establish ethnic museums in different districts covering all the castes and communities at the initiative and responsibility of the local people. The State will give special attention to preserve the culture and heritage of the Terai-Madhesh, the Hills and the Mountains. Rt. Hon. Speaker, Families of those who were killed or disappeared during the conflict and who have not yet received relief assistance will be given relief assistance, and the act of rehabilitating the displaced will be carried forward. Those whose property has been forcibly seized as well as those whose property has been proven to have been damaged but have not yet received compensation will be given compensation. A special fund will be established for the rescue, relief, rehabilitation and assistance to those who have been affected by violence and conflict and are displaced. In order to provide direct relief to the people of the affected region, programs involving people’s participation will be undertaken. Those who were wounded in course of different movements but have not received appropriate treatment will be provided treatment facilities. Those who were physically disabled will be given compensation. Price rise will be controlled by increasing the supply of food items and other daily necessities. Price Cartelling in essential commodities and the syndicate system in the transportation sector will be abolished. Public distribution system will be strengthened so as to make the essential commodities available at affordable prices to the squatters and people living below the poverty line. Necessary arrangements will be made to ensure the rights and interests of the consumers. Relief and rehabilitation works for the people affected by the Koshi floods will be made effective. High priority will be given to the reconstruction of the Koshi dam so as to minimize the risks. Necessary steps will be taken to provide relief to the people of the far west and other parts of the country seriously affected by floods and landslides. In order to consolidate the political achievements made by the country through the historic People's Movement and to strengthen the national economy on the basis of the principles of welfare state and make it socialism-oriented and people-oriented, emphasis will be given on the public, cooperative and private sector partnerships. While focusing development efforts on reducing poverty, unemployment, backwardness, inequality and dependence, economic and social policies and programmes based on social justice, economic growth and distributive justice will be adopted. The slogan ‘Cooperatives in Villages and Cities, and Employment at Every Household’ will be realized. Distribution of ‘State-Privileged Identity Cards’ will be initiated in order to raise the living standards of families living below the poverty line, and priority will be given Identity Card while providing services by the Government authorities including in education, health, food, employment etc. Employment will be gradually established as a fundamental right of the citizen. Employment opportunities will be expanded through the medium of the public, cooperative and private sectors. An ‘Employment Guarantee Program’ will be carried out by the State to ensure at least 100 days of employment each year to people living below the poverty line. Necessary laws and regulations for this will be formulated. With a view to establishing social justice, ensuring equitable distribution of the factors of production and achieving economic growth, scientific land reforms programme will be implemented to maintain access of local landless and tenant farmers to land. The problem of land trust (Guthi) will be resolved. Special attention will be paid to the socio-economic uplifting of the agriculture labour, freed bonded labour, landless and squatters. Food security policy will be implemented. Nine programs consisting of education for all and literacy, health, safe drinking water, small irrigation, small and cottage industry, skill-oriented training and employment, intensive afforestation, small hydroelectricity and local road will be effectively undertaken. Agriculture sector that has been the foundation of livelihood, income and employment of the majority of the people will be transformed from the current 'agriculture for subsistence' into 'agriculture for sustainable development'. Emphasis will be laid on enhancing production pursuant to 'One Village, One Product' policy. Farmers will be provided concessions with regard to necessary fertilizer, seed, agricultural tools, cold storage and irrigation-related electricity tariff. Private sector will be encouraged to establish livestock farms. Perspective plan for agriculture development will be implemented. Provision of subsidy will be made with regard to the price and transportation of chemical fertilizers as well as commercial production of organic fertilizers. While discouraging the fragmentation of agriculture land, programs of consolidated farming through cooperatives will be encouraged. In order to ensure that the farmers get appropriate price for their products, agricultural wholesale market based on cooperatives will be expanded. For the qualitative enhancement of agriculture production and productivity, special priority will be accorded to the implementation of small and medium-sized irrigation projects. Big irrigation projects will be implemented as multi-purpose projects. Sunkoshi-Kamala Diversion and Bheri-Babai Diversion will be undertaken in this context. River training programs will be launched as a campaign to protect loss of lives and property, to generate employment as well as to promote resettlement programs for the landless people by reclaiming the land. With a view to developing necessary physical infrastructure required to attract the private sector in the overall economic development and industrialization of the country, the role of government will be made effective. While ensuring industrial peace, new industrial policy will be implemented to create conducive environment for investment. Industrial security force will be constituted for the safety of industrial zones. Board of investment will be established under the chairmanship of the Prime Minister for the smooth and expeditious implementation of decisions relating to the private sector investment of national significance. Common people's access to ownership of shares in the projects to be constructed under public sector investment as well as other public enterprizes will be made easier. Delivery of services by the public enterprizes will be made less expensive, easier and effective by introducing management reforms. Nepal Airlines Corporation will be operated under public-private partnership. With a view to ensuring uninterrupted supply of electricity in the country in the long-run as well as promoting its export in the future, programs for the development of energy including hydro electricity will be initiated as an important basis for national development. Long-term policy will be adopted for the mobilization of national, foreign, private, bilateral as well as multilateral investments. The existing policies as well institutional arrangements will be reformed for this purpose. The local people's access to and participation in hydroelectricity projects will be ensured. High priority will be accorded to the implementation of rural electrification programs and 'Bright Nepal Campaign' will be launched with the expansion of solar energy as well as micro and small hydropower projects. Policy and programs relating to the resolution of energy crisis will be implemented effectively. In order to reduce power shortage especially during the dry season capacity of the existing power houses will be enhanced and short-term policy of operating the thermal plants in full capacity will be adopted. High priority with national resolve will be accorded to the expeditious implementation of some large scale hydropower projects. Construction works of East-West railway and Hulaki road in Terai-Madhesh will be initiated. The task of linking District Headquarters with road will be undertaken with priority. Mid-hilly road as well as Koshi, Gandaki and Karnali corridor road projects connecting Nepal-India border to Nepal's border with Tibet in China will be initiated. A fast track connecting Kathmandu to Terai as well as Dharan-Chatara-Gaighat-Hetauda Road, Seti highway and Rapti highway will be constructed. Construction work of a bridge over Koshi river at Chatara will be initiated. Projection of resources will be made along with 3-year expenditure plan with a view to ensuring resources for high-priority project and programmes as well as to continue development and construction works through 'multiyear contract' system,. In order to enhance the competitiveness of the contract system, arrangements will be made for submission of tender bids electronically to multiple centers. Public Procurement Act will be reviewed to check corruption and enhance effectiveness of construction works through reform in public procurement and construction system. The concept of Public-Private partnership will be adopted in the construction and operation of big infrastructure projects. The existing laws and rules will be reviewed to promote private sector investment in infrastructure. National and foreign investment will be encouraged in the development of infrastructure under build-operate-transfer scheme. Emphasis will be givenon the balanced development of Terai-Madhesh, Hill, Mountain as well as of villages and cities. Special programs will be launched and mechanism will be established for the development of backward regions including Karnali. To carry out a comprehensive study of mid and far-western regions lagging behind in terms of development and opportunity, a Commission will be constituted and special programmes will be implemented. Natural, social and cultural resources and heritage of the country will be preserved. With a view to contributing to the economic development, special incentives will be offered to programs in the areas of religious, cultural, rural, health and educational tourism. Construction works of international airport at Nijgadh as well as of regional airports at Pokhara and Lumbini will be initiated. Other airports in operation will be upgraded. 'Nepal Tourism Year- 2011' program will be successfully implemented. Emphasis will be laid on the identification and development of new tourism spots and products as well as on the conduct of promotional activities in the tourist generating locations also in partnership with the private sector. New strategy will be formulated for the promotion of domestic, regional as well as international tourism, and Nepal Tourism Board will be activated to implement it. Air Services Agreements will be concluded with additional countries for the promotion of tourism. Special Economic Zones will be established to expand the base and competitive strength of exportable items. While appropriately managing the challenges emerging in industrial and trade sector on account of bilateral, regional and multilateral trade treaties and agreements, atmosphere will be created to take advantage of the available opportunities. Local Integrated Service Centre, cooperatives as well as depots of the concerned public enterprizes will be mobilized to ensure supply of essential products including food, salt, sugar and kerosene in the remote districts of Hill and Mountain regions. Additional transport subsidy will be granted to protect the people in remote and inaccessible hilly regions from soaring prices. Necessary legal framework will be prepared and implemented to involve private sector in the business of petroleum products to make the supply and distribution of petroleum products competitive, smooth and systematic. Forest area will be expanded by launching afforestation programme as a campaign so as to promote livestock development, promoting conservation of resources and ecosystem. Community forest programs will be encouraged in view of its contribution to the protection of environment. In Terai-Madhesh, the concept of 'partnership forest' will also be introduced in accordance with the demand of the local people. Arrangements will be made for the public audit for the institutional development of community and partnership forest. Special programs will be undertaken to minimize environment pollution and deforestation in view of the environmental degradation, imbalance and global warming. Intensive forest management program will be conducted for the commercialization as well as enhancement of productivity of forest resources. Open space in the forest area will be made available to the poor people living below the poverty line as a leasehold forest for their subsistence and employment. 'Mechi Mahakali Integrated Chure Protection Action Plan' will be formulated and implemented for the protection of Chure and Shivalik region. The existing Act and Rules will be amended with a view to encouraging investment in rearing selected wild animals and birds as well as in promoting investment in production and processing of herbs and herbal products. With a view to minimizing the effects of climate change on different sectors including agriculture sector, climate change-related policy and national adaptation program will be formulated and implemented within the next Fiscal Year. A climate change-related Action Plan Preparation Committee will be constituted under the chairmanship of the Prime Minister. While emphasizing the concept of sustainable and clean development, high priority will be accorded to renewable energy to generate green employment. For this, rural energy subsidy policy will be continued in the next Fiscal Year with further improvement. Financial sector reform programmes will be undertaken. Strict action will be taken to the willful defaulters of bank loans. Programmes to encourage good debtors will be undertaken. Additional legal arrangements will be introduced for the regulation of savings and credit cooperatives. Crops and livestock insurance programmes will be expanded through micro insurance services. Necessary legal arrangements will be made for this purpose. Regulatory and supervisory capacity of Nepal Rastra Bank will be further strengthened. In order to protect the deposit of small individual depositors, compulsory insurance of certain amount of savings and fixed deposit by Banks and Financial Institutions will be introduced. Access to modern banking services will be expanded in the rural areas. Free and compulsory education programmes will be undertaken gradually up to secondary level. National literacy campaign will be implemented with necessary changes. National literacy campaign will be implemented with necessary amendments. Special emphasis will be laid on the qualitative, employment-oriented, vocational and technical education accessible to the people. Primary and informal education in mother tongue will be expanded. School sector reform programs will be effectively implemented to make the basic education qualitative. The level of assistance of the State, participation and accountability of the community in the management of community schools will be increased to enhance the quality of school-level education. Promotion of quality education and capacity building through institutionalization of the collaboration between public and private sectors will be encouraged. The process of establishment of Universities which have been granted approval in principle, in the past, in accordance with the concept of multi-university will be carried forward. Emphasis will be laid on the enhancement of quality education by reviewing the existing structure of Tribhuban University. Necessary legal, institutional and infrastructure arrangements will be made for the establishment of Poly-technic University. With a view to ensuring access of all citizens to technical education and vocational training, additional training units, also with participation of private sector, will be established and resources will be mobilized. Arrangements for 'child protection subsidy' will be made on behalf of the State for the nurturing and healthy development of children as future stars. This facility, initially to be granted to the families of oppressed, endangered and marginalized ethnic groups and it will be gradually extended to cover all children. Primary and basic health will be ensured as a fundamental right of the people. With a view to making health services easy and accessible to the people, investment in the rural health programmes will be enhanced and monitoring the services under such investment will be strengthened. Policies to encourage community and cooporative health programmes will be pursued. Preparations will be made for the implementation of 'Health Insurance Programme'. Arrangements will be made for the free treatment of the people below poverty line suffering from complicated diseases. Special incentive programmes will be introduced to ensure the presence of health workers in remote and backward areas. New programs will be initiated in the area of reproductive health under the banner of 'Safe Motherhood, Women's Right'. Additional programs will be initiated to minimize malnutrition as well as maternal and infant mortality rates. Free maternity services will be expanded and incentives will be provided to make use of pre and post-delivery health care services. Arrangements for Twenty four-hour maternity services will be made in the health posts. Mobile services will also be provided for the benefit of the women suffering from prolapse of uterus. Incentive programmes for the women health volunteers will be undertaken. With a view to enhancing the access of the poor citizens of the urban areas to health services, arrangement for the establishment of additional health institutions and strengthening of the existing institutions and additional women health volunteers will be made on the basis of population and geography in coordination with the local bodies. Naturopathy, Yoga, Ayurvedic, Homeopathic, Yunani, Acupuncture and Amchi services will be promoted under the alternative medical therapy. Under social security scheme, the social security progarmmes will be made available to the senior citizens, widows, endangered ethnic and indigenous groups, Dalits, disabled and fully incapacitated persons will be expanded. Budget and people’s participation will be enhanced in programmes related to drinking water, sanitation, and construction of rural infrastructure. The construction works of the Melamchi Drinking Water Project will be completed within the stipulated timeframe with high priority. In order to enhance the quality of services to be provided by drinking water and sanitation related projects, the participation of the private sector will be encouraged. Emphasis will be laid on the maximum utilization of rain water harvesting. Special focus will be given on the problems related to the sanitation and traffic management system of Kathmandu and a comprehensive reform package will be undertaken for the improvement. The use of plastic bags will be prohibited in some designated areas and this will be gradually expanded to other areas. In order to protect the Bagmati civilization, the resources of Bagmati areas will be protected and the construction of the Bagmati Corridor will be expedited. Additional programmes will be carried out for the religious and cultural development of Pashupati, Janakpur and Lumbini areas. Operating businesses in the vicinity of religious sites will be discouraged. Arrangements of low cost “People's Residences” for the highly backward community, poor dalits, endangered ethnic groups and marginalized communities will be made. This programme will be gradually expanded to other communities. To provide social security to the elderly people, old-age homes will be constructed immediately in five development regions. The government will extend its support to the organizations and communities involved in this field. Necessary reforms will be made in the Labour Act so as to guarantee professional rights and protection of labourers as well as to enhance the productivity of industries and businesses. The foreign employment will be made systematic and easily accessible to general public. Priority shall be given to co-operative programmes for generating self-employment and self relience for rural women. In accordance with the policy of the devolution of power, the capacity of local bodies will be stregnthened. The programme, “Build Our Village Ourselves”, will be pushed forward in order to make development projects at grass-root level more participatory. A policy of devolving power to local bodies, except those which should be done by the Centre itself, will be adopted. In order to make creative development of the youth force, an action plan on ‘Youth Empowerment’ will be undertaken in line with the National Youth Policy. The youth will be deployed in various development activities as volunteers and the youth self-employment programmes will be carried out as a campaign. The youth will be mobilized on nationwide basis to undertake local development, social mobilization, monitoring of development programmes as well as for ending social evils. Programmes targeted to the youth will be taken to the villages by forming a ‘National Youth Council’. Support will be provided for the personality development of talented youth in different sectors exploring the latent talency in the children. A new Sports Policy will be implemented for the development of sports sector. Physical infrastructures will be developed and improved, and a wide-ranging development and expansion of the sports will be undertaken from school level. The sports sector will be widely extended on the basis of a slogan, “Sports for Healthy Life and National Pride”. A programme for finding talents in sports will be initiated and special arrangements will be made for the livelihood of the athletes winning international awards. The state will pay special attention to respect and protect special talents, who have dedicated their lives in the diverse fields of literature, music and arts. Arrangements will be made for severe punishment to prohibit kidnapping, rape, drug- trafficking, allegations of witchcraft, untouchability, etc. Necessary steps will be taken to eliminate the social evils like the dowry system. Arrangements will be made for the protection of the rights and interests of the Nepalese migrant workers and investment of their skill and capital into the country will be encouraged. Non-resident Nepalese will be provided with special identity cards and encouraged to take part in the development campaign of Nepal. A special programme will be carried out to stop brain-drain. Special arrangement will be made to utilize the remittances for national development. Appropriate fiscal and monetary policies will be implemented so as to minimize the empacts of the global economic recession in Nepal. Programmes will be undertaken to integrate the returnee Nepalese migrant workers into the labour market of Nepal. Emphasis will be laid on expanding tax net, adjusting rates, controlling leakages and strengthening administrative capacity for the mobilization of internal resources. Arrangement will be made to provide easy services to taxpayers in all district headquarters. The tax administration will be made transparent. A policy of mobilizing foreign aid in accordance with national need, interests and priority as well as utilizing foreign aid in a transparent and effective manner will be adopted by reviewing Foreign Aid Policy. Right Hon'ble Speaker, Despite the progress that Nepal has made gradually in the area of information and communication sectors, a large portion of the population has not been able to take advantage of its multi-dimensional use. The Government will integrate this sector with the overall development processes by adopting a policy under the theme, “Knowledge, Information and Communication, Foundation of New Nepal”. Telephone services will be expanded within this year to all Village Development Committees. A programme will be initiated with a mission of extending optical fiber to all district headquarters so as to provide internet facility in all Village Development Committees. By introducing qualitative improvement in the traditional postal system, the services will be diversified through the use of modern information technology. A programme will be undertaken to develop the Department of Information as the central information bank of the Government of Nepal. While making security printing effective, the capacity to get all security printing works done within the country will be developed. Stress will be given on the effective implementation of the Rights to Information Act and the Working Journalist Act. Persons involved in journalism for long period of time will be specially honoured. The inclusive programmes run by Radio Nepal and Nepal Television will be made effective. The publications carried out in different national languages by Gorkhapatra will be expanded. Encouragement will be given to the screening of the films contributing to the development and protection of Nepalese arts and culture. With a view to developing Nepal as an attractive place for the screening of international films, the act of developing a film city, equipped with all facilities will be taken up. Women's participation with their capacity enhancement will be promoted in various organs of the state as well as every sector of national life. Special programmes will be implemented for education, health and employment of the indigenous and ethnic groups, inhabitants of Terai/Madhesi, dalits, oppressed, poor, disabled and the people living in backward regions. Special arrangements will be made for the supply of food as well as for identification and mobilization of alternative resources in the food-deficit remote districts including Karnali region. Special programmes including social security will be implemented for the development of dalits, oppressed and backward groups, communities and areas. The whole country will be declared free from untouchabibily. A wide spread campaign will be carried out in order to eliminate the practice of Chhaupadi. Social discrimination and untouchability against the dalits will be taken as punishable offence and arrangements for strong action will be made against such offences. Programmes of positive discrimination will be implemented for the up-liftment of the dalit community. Additional programmes will be initiated for social integration. Ending all kinds of discriminations against women, the laws related with the control of crimes such as rape, domestic violence, and trafficking of women will be effectively enforced. "Women Awareness Programme" will be implemented for rehabilitation, up-liftment and development of affected women and children from above mentioned social evils. In order to provide temporary shelter to women displaced by domestic violence, “Women Shelters” will be established at fifteen most affected places. Partnership will be forged with Non-governmental Organizations (NGOs) to this end. Disabled persons will be given either special training and opportunities for employment or disability allowances. Social security will be provided to the elderly, helpless and widows. Priority will be given for working-age widows for employment. Public places will be gradually made disabled friendly. All types of discriminations against religion, language and culture will be eliminated. A national policy will be formulated and implemented for the protection, utilization and mobilization of cultural heritage. Arrangements will be made for the protection of scattered heritages by maintaining their record. The protection of places enlisted as the World Heritage Sites will be made effective. A National Commission will be constituted to make recommendations for the overall welfare and development of various religious, minority groups and communities. The rehabilitation works of the freed kamaiyas (bonded labours) will be made systematic. Necessary steps will be taken for liberation and rehabilitation of Kamalari and Haliya. Similary, rehabilitation works of Badi and deuki communities will be initiated after undertaking comprehensive studies. The efficiency of Nepal Army will be promoted. The involvement of Nepal Army in the development of infrastructure and conservation of heritage sites will be continued. The efficiency of Nepal Army will be enhanced so as to increase their participation in Peacekeeping missions. Human rights education will be made mandatory for army personnel's trainings. In line with the policy of making justice accessible to all, the process of reforming judicial services will be undertaken. Necessary legal arrangements will be made to expand the jurisdictions of the Appellate and District Courts. Promotion and protection of human rights will be made effective. Based upon the experience gained in the past elections, procedural reforms will be carried out so as to make elections free, fair, and credible. The distribution of National Identity Card will be completed within next year. Arrangements will be made to reveal the identity of voters through the National Identity Card by making the voters list more systematic. Necessary arrangements will be made for a strong and effective role of the Election Commission. The state’s foreign policy will be conducted based on the principles of the UN Charter, Panchasheela, and Non-alignment keeping national interest on the top. Friendly and cordial relations with neighbouring countries, particularly with India and China will be further strengthened on the basis of mutual respect, equality, co-operation and cordiality. The Nepalese territory will not be allowed to be used against any neighboring and friendly countries. Concerted efforts will be made to return the Bhutanese citizens living in Nepal as refugees to their country with dignity and respect. The relations with other friendly countries will also be strengthened and expanded. Nepal’s participation in the UN peacekeeping will be given continuity. The Nepalese Missions abroad will be equipped with resources so as to making economic diplomacy more effective. In line with the policy of expanding diplomatic relations as needed, Nepalese Embassies will be established in South Africa, Brazil, Canada and Kuwait in the next fiscal year. In order to protect and promote the rights and interests of the Nepalese migrant workers and to provide appropriate assistance to those who are in difficulties, the appointment of Labour Attaches will be made. The Government is firm in its belief that the national interests can be better protected with the unity and consensus among political parties. While safeguarding the sovereignty, national unity, territorial integrity, independence and self respect, national security, foreign policy, utilization of water resources and mobilization of foreign aid will be made according to the national interests of Nepal. The treaties and agreements inconsistent with national interests will be reviewed. Timely increment will be made on facilities given to civil servants based upon the recommendations of the High Level Pay Commission in order to keep the morale of civil servants high, enhance their work efficiency and re-gain people’s confidence through fair and efficient administration. The recommendations of the administrative restructuring commission will be gradually implemented. In order to increase the efficiency of civil servants, arrangements will be made to impart training to officials of various levels and classes at least once in the next five years. Rt. Hon Speaker, In the background of the historic People's Movement, we had initiated a peace process of its own kind. The international community is as much interested in its success as we ourselves are enthusiastic and serious about it. By realizing the strong interest for peace of the Nepali people, there is a need for all parties to be responsible for implementing the understandings and agreements reached at different times including the Comprehensive Peace Accord. The Government is fully committed to take the peace process to a positive conclusion. The Government of Nepal expresses its grateful thanks to the United Nations and the donor agencies who have assisted in the peace process and the socio-economic development of Nepal. The Government of Nepal is confident that it will continue to receive valuable assistance and solidarity from the international community in the accomplishment of Nepal's peace process, consolidation of democracy and in its socio-economic development. Our commitment to making the constitution has been obvious by the fact that even when the Legislative-Parliament was obstructed, the task of making the new constitution was continuing. The interest shown by the Nepali people in making the constitution is appreciable. It is necessary to give continuity to the task of making the constitution, and there will be full cooperation of the Government in this. The Government of Nepal expresses its sincere thankfulness to all the political parties, the Chairman of the Constituent Assembly, the Honourable Members and all others. The Government expects even more cooperation from all of you in the days ahead. The present Government has taken the cooperation extended to us from all as an inspiration. We had taken the leadership of the joint People's Movement for democracy and peace by developing the twelve point understanding which was founded on the belief that additional achievements could be made only by facing challenges. We had made different agreements, understandings and decisions in the direction of peace and stability subsequently. We have succeeded in resolving the differences that had obstructed the Legislative-Parliament. It is self evident that the challenges ahead can also be tackled on the basis of dialogue, consensus and co-operation. Let us move ahead from darkness to light, from mistrust to trust, and from conflict to reconciliation. A peaceful, prosperous, equitable, strong and democratic Nepal can be built by positive thinking, optimism towards the future and our collective effort. Thank you! From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 16:20:23 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:20:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?To_feel_India=92s_connect_with_Kas?= =?windows-1252?q?hmir=2C_go_to_Amarnath?= Message-ID: <6353c690907100350r5f5c7e05if06f0af63120cdee@mail.gmail.com> To feel India’s connect with Kashmir, go to Amarnath* July 10th, 2009Deccan Chronicle* * By Jagmohan Link - http://www.deccanchronicle.com/op-ed/feel-india%E2%80%99s-connect-kashmir-go-amarnath-026 * Few of the present generation of Indians know that Swami Vivekananda, accompanied by a couple of his European disciples, undertook a yatra to the Amarnath shrine from July 28 to August 8, 1898. Sister Nivedita, an Anglo-Irish social worker and a disciple of Swami Vivekananda, has left a brief but beautiful account of the journey which shows how significant this yatra is from the point of view of culture and national integration. About Swami Vivekananda’s experience at the holy cave, Sister Nivedita has recorded: “Never had Swami felt such a spiritual exaltation. So saturated had he become with the presence of the great God that for days after he could speak of nothing else. Shiva was all in all; Shiva, the eternal one, the great monk, rapt in meditation, aloof from the world”. Later, Swami Vivekananda himself recounted: “I thought the ice-lingam was Shiva Himself. And there were no thievish Brahmins, no trade, nothing wrong. It was all worship. I have never seen anything so beautiful, so inspiring, and enjoyed any religious place so much”. In August 1986, when I was the governor of Jammu and Kashmir, I travelled on foot, from Chandanwari to the cave, taking the same route as was taken by Swami Vivekananda and his party. It was a journey to remember. The route is certainly one of the most enchanting and enthralling routes in the world. It transmits a feeling of being “upward and divine”. In a state of heightened sublimity and with his faith fully surcharged and the awe and majesty of the sights around him, the pilgrim perceives, with his mind’s eye, Lord Shiva, sitting calmly underneath an imperishable canopy provided by the “mount of immortality”, and conveying in hushed silence the message of inseparability of the processes of creation and destruction; of “every beginning having an end, and every end having a beginning”. The holy cave is located in one of the “purest and firmest peaks” of the Himalayas which, in the Hindu tradition, is itself a symbol of sublimity, serenity and strength. And there is a very close relationship between these “silvery mountains” and Lord Shiva. This relationship finds best expression in the words of Adi Shankara when, overwhelmed by the physical and spiritual beauty of the white peaks, he reflected: “Oh Shiva, thy body is white, white is thy smile, the human skull in thy hand is white. Thy axe, thy bull, thy earring all are white. The Ganga flowing out in foams from your matted locks, is white. The crescent moon on thy brow is white. Oh all-white Shiva, give us the boon of complete sinlessness in our lives”. The cave is accessible only during a short period of a year, usually in the months of July and August. At that time, inside the cave, a pure white ice-lingam comes into being. Water trickles, somewhat mysteriously, in slow rhythm, from the top of the cave and freezes into ice. It first forms a solid base and then on it a lingam begins to rise, almost imperceptibly, and acquires full form on purnima. It is believed that on that day, Lord Shiva revealed the secrets of life to his consort Parvati, the beautiful daughter of the Himalayas. It is also believed that while Lord Shiva was speaking to Parvati, a pair of pigeons appeared and overheard the talk. And this pair still comes to the cave at the time of the yatra as incarnation of Shiva and Parvati. The most captivating spot on the route is the lake of Seshnag. This lake symbolises the cosmic ocean in which Lord Vishnu, the preserver of this universe, moves, reclining on a seven-headed mythical snake. After getting refreshed with a bath of ice-cold water of Seshnag, the pilgrim takes a steep climb to the most difficult spot, Mahagunna (4,350 metres). Thereafter, a short descent begins to Poshpathan which is covered in wild flowers. From there, pilgrims move to Panchtarni, a confluence of five mythical streams, and then to the cave. A strange sense of fulfilment seizes the pilgrims, and all fatigue is forgotten. Even with temperatures touching zero, the pilgrims are driven by their faith to take bath in the almost-freezing rivulet of Amravati. This is what Sister Nivedita has written about Swami Vivekananda’s experience: “With a smile he knelt, first at one end of the semi-circle, then at the other. The place was vast, large enough to hold a cathedral, and the great ice-Shiva, in a niche of deepest shadow, seemed as if throned on its own base. To him, the heavens had opened. He had touched the feet of Shiva. He had to hold himself tight, he said afterwards, lest he “should swoon away”. But so great was his physical exhaustion, that a doctor said afterwards that his heart ought to have stopped beating, and had undergone a permanent enlargement instead. How strangely near fulfilment had been those words of his Master: “When he realises who and what he is, he will give up this body!” Afterwards he would often tell of the overwhelming vision that had seemed to draw him almost into its vertex. He always said that the grace of Amarnath had been granted to him there, not to die till he himself should give consent. And to me he said: “You do not now understand. But you have made the pilgrimage, and it will go on working. Causes must bring their effects. You will understand better afterwards. The effects will come”. The significance of the pilgrimage, however, does not end at the personal level. It extends to the much larger issue of cultural unity and vision of India from Kashmir to Kanyakumari, from Kathiawar to Kamrup. Its importance as an underlying integrating force needs to be recognised. When some people talk of Kashmir’s relationship with the rest of India only in terms of Article 1 and Article 370 of the Constitution, I am surprised at their ignorance. They do not know that this relationship goes much deeper. It is a relationship that has existed for thousands of years in the mind and soul of the people, a relationship that India’s intellect and emotions, its life and literature, its philosophy and poetry, its common urges and aspirations, have given birth to. It is this relationship which inspired Subrmania Bharati to perceive Kashmir as a crown of Mother India, and Kanyakumari as a lotus at her feet, and also made him sing that “She has 30 crore faces, but her heart is one”. ** Jagmohan is a former governor of J&K and a former Union minister* From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 16:23:08 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:23:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I think you should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three wives, move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was described by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse habits. i am sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko baba, which nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it with pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has reached derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your ideas of yoga being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev and bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian society. -regards anupam On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or a > father. > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to this > fact. > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common people > have consensus on decriminalization. > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It helps > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > Cheers > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite wrote: > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who say > that > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying homosexuality > is > > natural? > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations in > > anthropology, I think. > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > Since people have raised the question > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > evolution, human > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > (though mostly in > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > early history of > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > natural? > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > that women have > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > would that have been > > > natural? > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > something is natural > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > place with time, > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > natural or not, if the > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > these scriptures > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > can't be considered > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > minority in India, > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > is certainly > > > true as of now. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rakesh > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 16:34:05 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:34:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some day. Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev hasn't pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. Spreading imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It qualifies you as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your disability openly on sarai today. I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of followers worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may continue to live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure how rich Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of money. Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? Love On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I think you > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three wives, > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was described > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse habits. i am > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko baba, which > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it with > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has reached > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your ideas of > yoga > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev and > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian society. > > -regards > anupam > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or a > > father. > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to this > > fact. > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common people > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It > helps > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > Cheers > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite wrote: > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who say > > that > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > homosexuality > > is > > > natural? > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations in > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > evolution, human > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > (though mostly in > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > early history of > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > that women have > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > would that have been > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > something is natural > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > place with time, > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > these scriptures > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > can't be considered > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > minority in India, > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > is certainly > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 16:54:46 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:54:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, this defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his followers shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with television. in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being cured by that quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev eating on air time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in tribal areas of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the villagers would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of indian society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class Hindu ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from Hindu Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even more (says a latest TOI report) . -with warmest regards anupam On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some day. > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev hasn't > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. Spreading > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It qualifies > you > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > disability > openly on sarai today. > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of followers > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may continue to > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure how rich > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of money. > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > Love > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I think you > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three wives, > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was > described > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse habits. i > am > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko baba, > which > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it with > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has > reached > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your ideas of > > yoga > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev and > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian > society. > > > > -regards > > anupam > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or a > > > father. > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to this > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common > people > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It > > helps > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who > say > > > that > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > homosexuality > > > is > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations in > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > cure... > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > early history of > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > > that women have > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > would that have been > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > something is natural > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > > place with time, > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > > is certainly > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From dnyan21 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 17:03:56 2009 From: dnyan21 at yahoo.com (vaid theite) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... Message-ID: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hallo, You are diverting the main concern of this email. Dont you think so? The main point is that how to argue with Baba kind of person irrespective of how popular he is as this has gone a legal case. Baba has vocalised expression of many, I think. When one says that homosexuality is not natural. Then, question is how to pose an argument against it? One needs to prove, scientifically and reasonably, that it is natural. Traditionally, it has been approved that that physical relation between two different sexes is natural. D --- On Fri, 7/10/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > To: "sarai list" > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:24 AM > Dear Aditya, > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. > Second, this > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and > his followers > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread > with television. > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people > being cured by that > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are > helping out > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike > Ramdev eating on air > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people > in tribal areas > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because > the villagers > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines > have to be > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge > of indian > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of > middle class Hindu > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests > itself like a > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of > american > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june > 2009 from Hindu > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves > it even more > (says a latest TOI report) . > > -with warmest regards > anupam > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be > one soon some day. > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure > Baba Ramdev hasn't > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it > yourself. Spreading > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of > you. It qualifies > > you > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have > proved your > > disability > > openly on sarai today. > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has > lakhs of followers > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any > harm. You may continue to > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I > know for sure how rich > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its > all game of money. > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. > isn't it ? > > > > Love > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty > > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the > perversion of Yogis. I think you > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis > start with three wives, > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate > objects. this was > > described > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and > the perverse habits. i > > am > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly > ask your whacko baba, > > which > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell > you all about it with > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced > with a guru who has > > reached > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all > aspirations. your ideas of > > > yoga > > > being a desi marketable product which is being > done by this ramdev and > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have > about larger indian > > society. > > > > > > -regards > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just > another Baba, Maulvi or a > > > > father. > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One > shouldn't shut their eyes to this > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on > legalization, most of the common > > people > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May > Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It > doesn't only help Hindus. It > > > helps > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to > 'convince' people like Baba who > > say > > > > that > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be > posit an argument saying > > > homosexuality > > > > is > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate > history of sexual relations in > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be > 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: > Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > > cure... > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 > AM > > > > > > Since people have raised the > question > > > > > > of homosexuality not being > natural, I > > > > > > would also like to know what is > this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, > and now continue to do so > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that > natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been > subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now > they do marry. Is that > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when > it must have been decided > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At > that moment of time, > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one > can't be sure whether > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is > change. Change has to take > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for > homosexuality being > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' > have content on it and > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by > your definition, they > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be > that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream > practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject > header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 17:15:18 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:15:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> homosexuality has existed in the indian society from time immemorial. there is a whole monument dedicated to homosexuality in Dahod district of gujarat that dates back to 12 century AD. the argument that the homosexuality is unnatural occurs when one sees it from the perspective of Victorian mores being applied to indian society that happened in late 18th and 19th century. people like baba ramdev continue to do so. On 7/10/09, vaid theite wrote: > > Hallo, > > You are diverting the main concern of this email. Dont you think so? The > main point is that how to argue with Baba kind of person irrespective of how > popular he is as this has gone a legal case. Baba has vocalised expression > of many, I think. When one says that homosexuality is not natural. Then, > question is how to pose an argument against it? One needs to prove, > scientifically and reasonably, that it is natural. Traditionally, it has > been approved that that physical relation between two different sexes is > natural. > > D > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:24 AM > > Dear Aditya, > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. > > Second, this > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and > > his followers > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread > > with television. > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people > > being cured by that > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are > > helping out > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike > > Ramdev eating on air > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people > > in tribal areas > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because > > the villagers > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines > > have to be > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge > > of indian > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of > > middle class Hindu > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests > > itself like a > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of > > american > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june > > 2009 from Hindu > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves > > it even more > > (says a latest TOI report) . > > > > -with warmest regards > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be > > one soon some day. > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure > > Baba Ramdev hasn't > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it > > yourself. Spreading > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of > > you. It qualifies > > > you > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have > > proved your > > > disability > > > openly on sarai today. > > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has > > lakhs of followers > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any > > harm. You may continue to > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I > > know for sure how rich > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its > > all game of money. > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. > > isn't it ? > > > > > > Love > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the > > perversion of Yogis. I think you > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis > > start with three wives, > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate > > objects. this was > > > described > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and > > the perverse habits. i > > > am > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly > > ask your whacko baba, > > > which > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell > > you all about it with > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced > > with a guru who has > > > reached > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all > > aspirations. your ideas of > > > > yoga > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being > > done by this ramdev and > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have > > about larger indian > > > society. > > > > > > > > -regards > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just > > another Baba, Maulvi or a > > > > > father. > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One > > shouldn't shut their eyes to this > > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on > > legalization, most of the common > > > people > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May > > Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It > > doesn't only help Hindus. It > > > > helps > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to > > 'convince' people like Baba who > > > say > > > > > that > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be > > posit an argument saying > > > > homosexuality > > > > > is > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate > > history of sexual relations in > > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be > > 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: > > Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > > > cure... > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 > > AM > > > > > > > Since people have raised the > > question > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being > > natural, I > > > > > > > would also like to know what is > > this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, > > and now continue to do so > > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that > > natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been > > subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now > > they do marry. Is that > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when > > it must have been decided > > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At > > that moment of time, > > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one > > can't be sure whether > > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is > > change. Change has to take > > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for > > homosexuality being > > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' > > have content on it and > > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by > > your definition, they > > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be > > that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream > > practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 19:36:47 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:36:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> Dear All I sometimes dont believe in ' facts' which is my 'artistic choice' and one of them is the fact that majority of Indians dont agree to recent HC verdict which downplayed the contents of Article 377 regarding Homosexuality. I dont care about such a mojority, if it shallowly and violently opposes the freedom to exprience alternative sexuality in our society We are made to beleive that the Mojority of Indians ( Hindus, Sikhs, Christian and Muslims ) are against the High Court Order ' decriminalizing' Homosexulaity, which is a far cry from legalizing it. I have rarely seen these religous leaders(mukhotas) taking a collective stand against communal violnece, or any other kind of violence, but for this 'union' between 'same sex' has united them. It only speakes about their private behaviours. It amuses me to no end when i hear them saying that ' homosexuality can be cured, it is a disease'. when is reverse is true. I personally want to see ' legalizing of same sex marrainges' happening during my life time. I want to live in a world that guarantees freedom to every and each individual to expeirnce love on their own terms. People deserve to free themselves from the obselete chains of Laws.. I dont know about chauvinistic Males, but Females are always the direct beneficiaries of changes, as and when they occur, in any form, in any sector. The debate can be intensified in a very civilzed manner, and for that i found a lucid piece of text http://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/theory/genderandsex/modules/butlergendersex.html the followin para is from the above article Indeed, Butler goes far as to argue that gender, as an objective natural thing, does not exist: "Gender reality is performative which means, quite simply, that it is real only to the extent that it is performed" ("Performative" 278). Gender, according to Butler, is by no means tied to material bodily facts but is solely and completely a social construction, a fiction, one that, therefore, is open to change and contestation: "Because there is neither an 'essence' that gender expresses or externalizes nor an objective ideal to which gender aspires; because gender is not a fact, the various acts of gender creates the idea of gender, and without those acts, there would be no gender at all. Gender is, thus, a construction that regularly conceals its genesis" ("Performative" 273). That genesis is not corporeal but performative (see next module), so that the body becomes its gender only "through a series of acts which are renewed, revised, and consolidated through time" ("Performative" 274). By illustrating the artificial, conventional, and historical nature of gender construction, Butler attempts to critique the assumptions of normative heterosexuality: those punitive rules (social, familial, and legal) that force us to conform to hegemonic, heterosexual standards for identity. with love inder salim On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:15 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > homosexuality has existed in the indian society from time immemorial. there > is a whole monument dedicated to homosexuality in Dahod district of gujarat > that dates back to 12 century AD. the argument that the homosexuality is > unnatural occurs when one sees it from the perspective of Victorian mores > being applied to indian society that happened in late 18th and 19th century. > people like baba ramdev continue to do so. > > On 7/10/09, vaid theite wrote: > >> >> Hallo, >> >> You are diverting the main concern of this email. Dont you think so? The >> main point is that how to argue with Baba kind of person irrespective of how >> popular he is as this has gone a legal case. Baba has vocalised expression >> of many, I think. When one says that homosexuality is not natural. Then, >> question is how to pose an argument against it? One needs to prove, >> scientifically and reasonably, that it is natural. Traditionally, it has >> been approved that that physical relation between two different sexes is >> natural. >> >> D >> >> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> > From: anupam chakravartty >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... >> > To: "sarai list" >> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:24 AM >> > Dear Aditya, >> > >> > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. >> > Second, this >> > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and >> > his followers >> > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread >> > with television. >> > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people >> > being cured by that >> > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are >> > helping out >> > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike >> > Ramdev eating on air >> > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people >> > in tribal areas >> > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because >> > the villagers >> > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines >> > have to be >> > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge >> > of indian >> > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of >> > middle class Hindu >> > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests >> > itself like a >> > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of >> > american >> > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. >> > >> > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june >> > 2009 from Hindu >> > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves >> > it even more >> > (says a latest TOI report) . >> > >> > -with warmest regards >> > anupam >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Dear Anupam >> > > >> > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be >> > one soon some day. >> > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure >> > Baba Ramdev hasn't >> > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it >> > yourself. Spreading >> > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of >> > you. It qualifies >> > > you >> > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have >> > proved your >> > > disability >> > > openly on sarai today. >> > > >> > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has >> > lakhs of followers >> > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any >> > harm. You may continue to >> > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I >> > know for sure how rich >> > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its >> > all game of money. >> > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. >> > isn't it ? >> > > >> > > Love >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty >> > > > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > Dear Aditya, >> > > > >> > > > Looks like you have not heard about the >> > perversion of Yogis. I think you >> > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis >> > start with three wives, >> > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate >> > objects. this was >> > > described >> > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and >> > the perverse habits. i >> > > am >> > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly >> > ask your whacko baba, >> > > which >> > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell >> > you all about it with >> > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced >> > with a guru who has >> > > reached >> > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all >> > aspirations. your ideas of >> > > > yoga >> > > > being a desi marketable product which is being >> > done by this ramdev and >> > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have >> > about larger indian >> > > society. >> > > > >> > > > -regards >> > > > anupam >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just >> > another Baba, Maulvi or a >> > > > > father. >> > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One >> > shouldn't shut their eyes to this >> > > > > fact. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on >> > legalization, most of the common >> > > people >> > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. >> > > > > >> > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim >> > > > > >> > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May >> > Baba Ramdev bless you. >> > > > > >> > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It >> > doesn't only help Hindus. It >> > > > helps >> > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. >> > > > > >> > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. >> > > > > >> > > > > Cheers >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to >> > 'convince' people like Baba who >> > > say >> > > > > that >> > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be >> > posit an argument saying >> > > > homosexuality >> > > > > is >> > > > > > natural? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate >> > history of sexual relations in >> > > > > > anthropology, I think. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be >> > 're-articulation'? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Dnyan >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer >> > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: >> > Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a >> > > cure... >> > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" >> > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > >> > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 >> > AM >> > > > > > > Since people have raised the >> > question >> > > > > > > of homosexuality not being >> > natural, I >> > > > > > > would also like to know what is >> > this 'natural'. In their >> > > > > > > evolution, human >> > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, >> > and now continue to do so >> > > > > > > (though mostly in >> > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that >> > natural, or not? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Women would have not been >> > subjected to marriage in very >> > > > > > > early history of >> > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now >> > they do marry. Is that >> > > > > > > natural? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > There must have been a time when >> > it must have been decided >> > > > > > > that women have >> > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At >> > that moment of time, >> > > > > > > would that have been >> > > > > > > natural? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one >> > can't be sure whether >> > > > > > > something is natural >> > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is >> > change. Change has to take >> > > > > > > place with time, >> > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for >> > homosexuality being >> > > > > > > natural or not, if the >> > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' >> > have content on it and >> > > > > > > these scriptures >> > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by >> > your definition, they >> > > > > > > can't be considered >> > > > > > > 'natural'. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The correct statement should be >> > that homosexuals are in a >> > > > > > > minority in India, >> > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream >> > practiced custom in India. That >> > > > > > > is certainly >> > > > > > > true as of now. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rakesh >> > > > > > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion >> > list on media and the >> > > > > > > city. >> > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject >> > header. >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe: >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > > > List archive: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> > media and the city. >> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > > List archive: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> > media and the city. >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > List archive: >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> > the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From divya.manian at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 19:40:53 2009 From: divya.manian at gmail.com (Divya Manian) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:10:53 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > But, I know for sure how rich > Homosexual brats sexually > abuse children in India. Its all game of money. > Maybe you should take some > inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > Love Erm, what does homosexuality have anything to do with pedophilia? -- I blog at http://nimbupani.com/blog From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 19:44:07 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:44:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907100714yc717f13x6bdb953250f06ac3@mail.gmail.com> Religious leaders should not have any kind of say in any of the functioning of a democratic society, because God never contests in any of the elections. (Is anybody saying that religious leaders have nothing to do with God) Thank you Anupam On 7/10/09, Inder Salim wrote: > > Dear All > > I sometimes dont believe in ' facts' which is my 'artistic choice' and > one of them is the fact that majority of Indians dont agree to recent > HC verdict which downplayed the contents of Article 377 regarding > Homosexuality. I dont care about such a mojority, if it shallowly and > violently opposes the freedom to exprience alternative sexuality in > our society > > We are made to beleive that the Mojority of Indians ( Hindus, Sikhs, > Christian and Muslims ) are against the High Court Order ' > decriminalizing' Homosexulaity, which is a far cry from legalizing > it. I have rarely seen these religous leaders(mukhotas) taking a > collective stand against communal violnece, or any other kind of > violence, but for this 'union' between 'same sex' has united them. It > only speakes about their private behaviours. It amuses me to no end > when i hear them saying that ' homosexuality can be cured, it is a > disease'. when is reverse is true. > > I personally want to see ' legalizing of same sex marrainges' > happening during my life time. I want to live in a world that > guarantees freedom to every and each individual to expeirnce love on > their own terms. > > People deserve to free themselves from the obselete chains of Laws.. I > dont know about chauvinistic Males, but Females are always the direct > beneficiaries of changes, as and when they occur, in any form, in any > sector. > > The debate can be intensified in a very civilzed manner, and for that > i found a lucid piece of text > > > http://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/theory/genderandsex/modules/butlergendersex.html > > the followin para is from the above article > > Indeed, Butler goes far as to argue that gender, as an objective > natural thing, does not exist: "Gender reality is performative which > means, quite simply, that it is real only to the extent that it is > performed" ("Performative" 278). Gender, according to Butler, is by no > means tied to material bodily facts but is solely and completely a > social construction, a fiction, one that, therefore, is open to change > and contestation: "Because there is neither an 'essence' that gender > expresses or externalizes nor an objective ideal to which gender > aspires; because gender is not a fact, the various acts of gender > creates the idea of gender, and without those acts, there would be no > gender at all. Gender is, thus, a construction that regularly conceals > its genesis" ("Performative" 273). That genesis is not corporeal but > performative (see next module), so that the body becomes its gender > only "through a series of acts which are renewed, revised, and > consolidated through time" ("Performative" 274). By illustrating the > artificial, conventional, and historical nature of gender > construction, Butler attempts to critique the assumptions of normative > heterosexuality: those punitive rules (social, familial, and legal) > that force us to conform to hegemonic, heterosexual standards for > identity. > > > > with love > inder salim > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:15 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > homosexuality has existed in the indian society from time immemorial. > there > > is a whole monument dedicated to homosexuality in Dahod district of > gujarat > > that dates back to 12 century AD. the argument that the homosexuality is > > unnatural occurs when one sees it from the perspective of Victorian mores > > being applied to indian society that happened in late 18th and 19th > century. > > people like baba ramdev continue to do so. > > > > On 7/10/09, vaid theite wrote: > > > >> > >> Hallo, > >> > >> You are diverting the main concern of this email. Dont you think so? The > >> main point is that how to argue with Baba kind of person irrespective of > how > >> popular he is as this has gone a legal case. Baba has vocalised > expression > >> of many, I think. When one says that homosexuality is not natural. Then, > >> question is how to pose an argument against it? One needs to prove, > >> scientifically and reasonably, that it is natural. Traditionally, it has > >> been approved that that physical relation between two different sexes is > >> natural. > >> > >> D > >> > >> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> > >> > From: anupam chakravartty > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > >> > To: "sarai list" > >> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:24 AM > >> > Dear Aditya, > >> > > >> > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. > >> > Second, this > >> > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and > >> > his followers > >> > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread > >> > with television. > >> > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people > >> > being cured by that > >> > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are > >> > helping out > >> > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike > >> > Ramdev eating on air > >> > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people > >> > in tribal areas > >> > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because > >> > the villagers > >> > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines > >> > have to be > >> > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge > >> > of indian > >> > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of > >> > middle class Hindu > >> > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests > >> > itself like a > >> > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of > >> > american > >> > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > >> > > >> > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june > >> > 2009 from Hindu > >> > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves > >> > it even more > >> > (says a latest TOI report) . > >> > > >> > -with warmest regards > >> > anupam > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Dear Anupam > >> > > > >> > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be > >> > one soon some day. > >> > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure > >> > Baba Ramdev hasn't > >> > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it > >> > yourself. Spreading > >> > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of > >> > you. It qualifies > >> > > you > >> > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have > >> > proved your > >> > > disability > >> > > openly on sarai today. > >> > > > >> > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has > >> > lakhs of followers > >> > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any > >> > harm. You may continue to > >> > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I > >> > know for sure how rich > >> > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its > >> > all game of money. > >> > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. > >> > isn't it ? > >> > > > >> > > Love > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> > >> > > >wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Dear Aditya, > >> > > > > >> > > > Looks like you have not heard about the > >> > perversion of Yogis. I think you > >> > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis > >> > start with three wives, > >> > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate > >> > objects. this was > >> > > described > >> > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and > >> > the perverse habits. i > >> > > am > >> > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly > >> > ask your whacko baba, > >> > > which > >> > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell > >> > you all about it with > >> > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced > >> > with a guru who has > >> > > reached > >> > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all > >> > aspirations. your ideas of > >> > > > yoga > >> > > > being a desi marketable product which is being > >> > done by this ramdev and > >> > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have > >> > about larger indian > >> > > society. > >> > > > > >> > > > -regards > >> > > > anupam > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just > >> > another Baba, Maulvi or a > >> > > > > father. > >> > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One > >> > shouldn't shut their eyes to this > >> > > > > fact. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on > >> > legalization, most of the common > >> > > people > >> > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May > >> > Baba Ramdev bless you. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It > >> > doesn't only help Hindus. It > >> > > > helps > >> > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Cheers > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > >> > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to > >> > 'convince' people like Baba who > >> > > say > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be > >> > posit an argument saying > >> > > > homosexuality > >> > > > > is > >> > > > > > natural? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate > >> > history of sexual relations in > >> > > > > > anthropology, I think. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be > >> > 're-articulation'? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Dnyan > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: > >> > Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > >> > > cure... > >> > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > >> > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> > > >> > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 > >> > AM > >> > > > > > > Since people have raised the > >> > question > >> > > > > > > of homosexuality not being > >> > natural, I > >> > > > > > > would also like to know what is > >> > this 'natural'. In their > >> > > > > > > evolution, human > >> > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, > >> > and now continue to do so > >> > > > > > > (though mostly in > >> > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that > >> > natural, or not? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Women would have not been > >> > subjected to marriage in very > >> > > > > > > early history of > >> > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now > >> > they do marry. Is that > >> > > > > > > natural? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > There must have been a time when > >> > it must have been decided > >> > > > > > > that women have > >> > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At > >> > that moment of time, > >> > > > > > > would that have been > >> > > > > > > natural? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one > >> > can't be sure whether > >> > > > > > > something is natural > >> > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is > >> > change. Change has to take > >> > > > > > > place with time, > >> > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for > >> > homosexuality being > >> > > > > > > natural or not, if the > >> > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' > >> > have content on it and > >> > > > > > > these scriptures > >> > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by > >> > your definition, they > >> > > > > > > can't be considered > >> > > > > > > 'natural'. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The correct statement should be > >> > that homosexuals are in a > >> > > > > > > minority in India, > >> > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream > >> > practiced custom in India. That > >> > > > > > > is certainly > >> > > > > > > true as of now. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rakesh > >> > > > > > > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > >> > list on media and the > >> > > > > > > city. > >> > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject > >> > header. > >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > >> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > > > > > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > >> > media and the city. > >> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with > >> > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > > > > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > > > > List archive: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > >> > media and the city. > >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with > >> > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > > > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > > > List archive: > >> > > > _________________________________________ > >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >> > the city. > >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with > >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > > List archive: > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with > >> > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > List archive: > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 19:51:26 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:51:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: While Baba Ramdev and his comrades (or brothers in his mission) are free to propagate their views as to why homosexualiy is unnatural, and so too have some on this forum, but when something has to be legalized, we must look at the founding fathers of our Constitution and the values which they had invested in while forming it. Those should be the ideals upon which our Constitution must be based, not the religious texts of the Hindus, the Muslims or the Christians. It is by the very same argument that Article 377 is being sought to be nullified. And more importantly, the govt. doesn't have any right to enter the bedrooms and find what two people are doing, unless of course one of them has a problem with it. And who has the right to decide what is natural? God? Humans? Baba Ramdev? Raja Ram Mohun Roy? @ Anupam jee: Religion by definition involves politics, and elections also involve politics, so the two can be linked in some way or the other. And politics can be democratic, so also religion. Therefore, religion can be a part of democratic society. Religious leaders are expressing their views and must have the right to do so. And of course, we have the right to disagree. The first problem with the current crop of religious leaders is that, they are not an outcome of democratic politics, but just self-declared leaders who have no following. Of course, they also don't have a proper knowledge of the texts of the faithful. And such politics will always involve deceit and cheating. Regards Rakesh From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 20:19:51 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:19:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907100749r24b16748s42f7092553fd250e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Which scripture says that religions are political? Then if religions are political, why is it the supreme end is with something that one hsnt seen or recorded as something called God. all this politics and everything in the name of entity which we havent seen. who decides what god wants? I made that statement in jest Rakesh. Actually i was watching an Iranian film in which a farmer was asked why he did not vote? very prompty the farmer replied his interviewer, since Allah is not contesting and he is a believer of Allah, he doesnt want to vote for any of them. I am just trying to point out that why these bunch of clerics, maulvis, pandits, priests have to be taken into consideration. i find it completely ridiculous. is it possible for them to shed their religiousity and speak for what they want? tell me Rakesh. i have no idea, what religions gave to the world except for some literature and self help manual. religion in public discourse has been a failure. from St Aquinas to Shankaracharya, all their arguments have been refuted, proved otherwise. so why this very idea of god and religion have to exist in order for a human being to attain or to find a purpose in life? what happened to our personal gods? On 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > While Baba Ramdev and his comrades (or brothers in his mission) are free to > propagate their views as to why homosexualiy is unnatural, and so too have > some on this forum, but when something has to be legalized, we must look at > the founding fathers of our Constitution and the values which they had > invested in while forming it. Those should be the ideals upon which our > Constitution must be based, not the religious texts of the Hindus, the > Muslims or the Christians. > > It is by the very same argument that Article 377 is being sought to be > nullified. And more importantly, the govt. doesn't have any right to enter > the bedrooms and find what two people are doing, unless of course one of > them has a problem with it. And who has the right to decide what is natural? > > God? Humans? Baba Ramdev? Raja Ram Mohun Roy? > > @ Anupam jee: Religion by definition involves politics, and elections also > involve politics, so the two can be linked in some way or the other. And > politics can be democratic, so also religion. Therefore, religion can be a > part of democratic society. Religious leaders are expressing their views and > must have the right to do so. And of course, we have the right to disagree. > > The first problem with the current crop of religious leaders is that, they > are not an outcome of democratic politics, but just self-declared leaders > who have no following. Of course, they also don't have a proper knowledge of > the texts of the faithful. And such politics will always involve deceit and > cheating. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 20:30:12 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:30:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907100749r24b16748s42f7092553fd250e@mail.gmail.com> References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100749r24b16748s42f7092553fd250e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't think scriptures define religion anywhere....at least I haven't seen mine. Religion means a group of people practicing together certain customs in the belief of being devoted to 'God'. (My perception). Anyways, what God wants only God knows. People here are actually taking the name of 'God' to state what they don't want. Religions gave a way to unite, like in Protestant Christianity, in Islam, in Hinduism (through Hindutva), or otherwise in Sikhism through Khalsa. Whether that is for bad or for good, let each one decide for oneself. Well, why this is existing and what is its' meaning, I really don't know. From justjunaid at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 20:42:40 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:42:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Helps sometimes to know what is happening in India's Greeeat Democracy! Message-ID: 1. Hundreds of Kashmiris herded into jails in crackdowns sweeping across the Valley. http://www.kashmirlive.com/story/JK-Police-pick-up-100-people-for-stone-pelting/487744.html Agencies Posted online: July 10, 2009 at 1759 Continuing with their crackdown on stone pelters and anti-national elements, Jammu and Kashmir Police have picked up another 100 people from various parts of the Valley who were allegedly fomenting trouble with their acts. With the fresh arrests, the number of people picked up by the police has gone well past 400 and the authorities were closely screening those detained while slapping Public Safety Act on serious offenders, official sources said. As many as seven more people have been booked with charges under the Act. Altogether, the number of such people booked under the Act has reached 14. Today over three dozen people were picked up from the Srinagar city itself and in districts including Baramulla and Anantnag. The authorities decided to clampdown on stone pelters as they used to bring the Kashmir Valley to a grinding halt over irrelevant issues, the sources said. As many as 50 people were also picked up from Shopian district, which has been witnessing frequent strikes over the alleged rape and murder of two women. Some of the stone pelters have been slapped with serious charges of attempt to murder because their acts had led to life-threatening situations for some of the jawans, they said. The crackdown began from the intervening night of July 8 and July 9 and is expected to continue for some more time till all culprits are brought to book, the official sources said. As part of the crackdown, a list of anti-social elements was prepared in consultation with intelligence agencies and local police stations after which raids to pick up people who had been disturbing peace in various districts of the Valley were taken up, they said. Police have slapped charges ranging from disturbing peace to serious offences under Section 307 (attempt of murder) on those arrested. The state tourism industry has taken the biggest hit because of the strikes, they said, adding that some local journalists, who were allegedly indulging in spreading rumours and inciting the mobs with wrong reporting, have also been identified and warned. 2. Another Kashmiri Woman Murdered, attempted rape by Indian Army man. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8143606.stm By Altaf Hussain BBC News, Srinagar Thousands of protesters have marched towards an army base in Indian-administered Kashmir, following the alleged murder of a young woman. Protesters say that the young student from the Kupwara district died after a member of India's Territorial Army assaulted her. A general strike over the incident has disrupted life across the Kashmir Valley as businesses closed down. The death is the tenth in recent weeks to be blamed on the security forces. The college student, 20, died after a Territorial Army soldier allegedly assaulted her at her home in Dolipora village late on Wednesday night. Police have charged a soldier with the murder of the young woman. The incident triggered huge demonstrations in Kupwara on Thursday which continued late into the night. Massive discontent The victim's funeral took place on Friday morning and fresh demonstrations have been reported from Kupwara on Friday. Thousands of people, including a large number of women, marched towards the army camp in Kupwara on Friday morning where the accused soldier was based. Shops and colleges have been closed and traffic suspended as a result of the strike. The incident comes amid huge discontent over the alleged rape and murder of two women in Shopian town six weeks ago. The final report of a probe into the case surrounding the double murder recently confirmed that police were involved. Shops in Shopian have been closed for the last 42 days and the case sparked protests across the Valley. 3. City youth’s murder sparks protests Police Vehicle Torched, 50 Injured In Clashes, Protesters Free Malik, Murder Case Registered, Suspects Held http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=9_7_2009&ItemID=130&cat=1 GOWHAR BHAT Srinagar, July 8: At least 50 persons, including six policemen were injured, in the clashes between the policemen and protesters in various parts of the city Wednesday, following the murder of a Maisuma youth. Asrar Mushtaq, 19, a 2nd year student at Islamia College, had gone missing on Friday evening after he had left home for gymnasium. Police recovered his throat-slit body from Sheikh Mohalla near Malkha in old city late last night and handed it over to his family this morning. As the word about his death spread this morning, scores of angry protesters, including men and women, took to streets near Maisuma and its adjoining localities including Jehangir Chowk, Hari Singh High Street, Saraibala and staged protests. They blocked the roads by burning tyres. They later enforced a shutdown in the entire city centre following which all the shops, banks, educational institutes were closed. As police and paramilitary CRPF personnel tried to control the protesters, the angry youth attacked several police vehicles. They intercepted a police bus, JK02R- 5444, near Maisuma and set it ablaze before beating-up the policemen. Police later beat up the protesters with batons and fired tear smoke canisters to disperse them. The protesters refused to budge and retailed with stones. Police fired several live rounds in air to disperse the agitating youth, injuring several of them. The protests spread to several parts of the city including Batamaloo, Rajouri Kadal, Habba Kadal, Nowhatta, Gojwara, Rainawari and other areas. Huge deployments of police and CRPF troopers used force to quell the protesters. However, ding dong battles between the protesters and policemen in different parts of the city continued till late in the evening. In view of the situation, authorities later imposed curfew in Maisuma and didn’t allow people to come out their homes. In old city, officials said section 144 was imposed. PROTESTERS FREE MALIK Amid pro-freedom slogans Asrar’s body was taken out from the locality in the afternoon for burial. The protesters also broke the police cordon around the residence of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front chairman, Muhammad Yasin Malik, who has been under house arrest for past 2-months, and took him along. Later thousands of people offered Asrar’s Nimaz-e-Jinazah near clock tower. BUILDINGS ATTACKED As mourners took his body for burial towards his ancestral graveyard near Dalgate from Moulana Azad Road, the angry youth attacked several buildings and hotels including the corporate headquarters of J&K Bank. They also set ablaze several kiosks of traffic police personnel and hoardings along the road. Several vehicles were also damaged as they pelted stones on the government buildings. OLD CITY During protests near Rajouri Kadal, two youth were critically injured when they were hit by a tear smoke canisters. They were later shifted to SKIMS where doctors termed the condition of one of the youth, Obaid Nabi, of Shamsabad, Bemina as critical. Late in the evening when the protests subsided, residents of Batamaloo and Maisuma alleged that the CRPF troopers barged into the residential houses. They said the troopers smashed the window panes of houses and thrashed the inmates. 3 INJURED IN NAID KADAL At least three persons were injured when paramilitary CRPF troopers opened fire on the protesters near Naid Kadal in old city on Wednesday evening, witnesses said. They said injured were shifted to a hospital where condition of one of the youth’s was stated to be critical. PROTESTS IN KU Meanwhile, the Kashmir University students also held protest demonstrations against the killing of the disappeared youth. The students raised slogans and marched peacefully towards the main entrance of the KU where they staged a sit-in. They demanded that the case be investigated and the culprits be brought to book. POLICE VERSION When contacted the senior superintendent of police, Ahfad-ul-Mujtaba, said six policemen were injured in the day long clashes. He said restrictions were imposed in parts of the city as protesters indulged in ransacking public and private property. Asked whether the restrictions would continue, he said, “Adequate security measure would be in place to deal with the situation.” MURDER CASE REGISTERED Ahfadul Mujtaba said that police has registered a murder case 54/2009 under section 302 in police station Rainawari under section 302 RPC. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 20:47:05 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:47:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100749r24b16748s42f7092553fd250e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907100817l10302080x9177c9550438ce85@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Why would anyone take the name of some entity to decide on something? why isnt there a direct assertion of what you want in life? why involve an all encompassing, omnipresent, all powerful being in your trivial issues? so that this grandious plan to occupy my mind with all the trivialities of each selfish human being could be done under the name of the god. in the name of the god, i always smell a rat. -anupam On 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > I don't think scriptures define religion anywhere....at least I haven't > seen mine. Religion means a group of people practicing together certain > customs in the belief of being devoted to 'God'. (My perception). Anyways, > what God wants only God knows. People here are actually taking the name of > 'God' to state what they don't want. > > Religions gave a way to unite, like in Protestant Christianity, in Islam, > in Hinduism (through Hindutva), or otherwise in Sikhism through Khalsa. > Whether that is for bad or for good, let each one decide for oneself. > > Well, why this is existing and what is its' meaning, I really don't know. > > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 20:55:59 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:55:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Helps sometimes to know what is happening in India's Greeeat Democracy! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690907100825n43b064d3o85f78ec952b7d5d3@mail.gmail.com> For once I don't blame the forces (J&K Police, Army, CRPF). If any incident takes place in Shopian, Kupwara, or Maisuma, investigative agencies should be given time to investigate and nab the bloody inhuman criminals. If you draw conclusion without any logical thinking too early, that will lead to 'madness'. That is what has been happening in Kashmir. 'Stone Pelting' as a way of protest is not fair. Abusing forces each time isn't just. The protesters need to be dealt with tough hand. Of course they are agents of separatists and PDP. I welcome the move by Omar Abdullah Govt. to give charge to J&K police in many areas. This will give employment and at the same time bring down separatist propaganda. On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Junaid wrote: > 1. Hundreds of Kashmiris herded into jails in crackdowns sweeping > across the Valley. > > > http://www.kashmirlive.com/story/JK-Police-pick-up-100-people-for-stone-pelting/487744.html > > Agencies > Posted online: July 10, 2009 at 1759 > > Continuing with their crackdown on stone pelters and anti-national > elements, Jammu and Kashmir Police have picked up another 100 people > from various parts of the Valley who were allegedly fomenting trouble > with their acts. > > With the fresh arrests, the number of people picked up by the police > has gone well past 400 and the authorities were closely screening > those detained while slapping Public Safety Act on serious offenders, > official sources said. > > As many as seven more people have been booked with charges under the > Act. Altogether, the number of such people booked under the Act has > reached 14. > > Today over three dozen people were picked up from the Srinagar city > itself and in districts including Baramulla and Anantnag. > > The authorities decided to clampdown on stone pelters as they used to > bring the Kashmir Valley to a grinding halt over irrelevant issues, > the sources said. > > As many as 50 people were also picked up from Shopian district, which > has been witnessing frequent strikes over the alleged rape and murder > of two women. > > Some of the stone pelters have been slapped with serious charges of > attempt to murder because their acts had led to life-threatening > situations for some of the jawans, they said. > > The crackdown began from the intervening night of July 8 and July 9 > and is expected to continue for some more time till all culprits are > brought to book, the official sources said. > > As part of the crackdown, a list of anti-social elements was prepared > in consultation with intelligence agencies and local police stations > after which raids to pick up people who had been disturbing peace in > various districts of the Valley were taken up, they said. > > Police have slapped charges ranging from disturbing peace to serious > offences under Section 307 (attempt of murder) on those arrested. > > The state tourism industry has taken the biggest hit because of the > strikes, they said, adding that some local journalists, who were > allegedly indulging in spreading rumours and inciting the mobs with > wrong reporting, have also been identified and warned. > > 2. Another Kashmiri Woman Murdered, attempted rape by Indian Army man. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8143606.stm > > By Altaf Hussain > BBC News, Srinagar > > Thousands of protesters have marched towards an army base in > Indian-administered Kashmir, following the alleged murder of a young > woman. > > Protesters say that the young student from the Kupwara district died > after a member of India's Territorial Army assaulted her. > > A general strike over the incident has disrupted life across the > Kashmir Valley as businesses closed down. > > The death is the tenth in recent weeks to be blamed on the security forces. > > The college student, 20, died after a Territorial Army soldier > allegedly assaulted her at her home in Dolipora village late on > Wednesday night. > > Police have charged a soldier with the murder of the young woman. > > The incident triggered huge demonstrations in Kupwara on Thursday > which continued late into the night. > > Massive discontent > > The victim's funeral took place on Friday morning and fresh > demonstrations have been reported from Kupwara on Friday. > > Thousands of people, including a large number of women, marched > towards the army camp in Kupwara on Friday morning where the accused > soldier was based. > > Shops and colleges have been closed and traffic suspended as a result > of the strike. > > The incident comes amid huge discontent over the alleged rape and > murder of two women in Shopian town six weeks ago. > > The final report of a probe into the case surrounding the double > murder recently confirmed that police were involved. > > Shops in Shopian have been closed for the last 42 days and the case > sparked protests across the Valley. > > 3. City youth’s murder sparks protests > Police Vehicle Torched, 50 Injured In Clashes, Protesters Free Malik, > Murder Case Registered, Suspects Held > > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=9_7_2009&ItemID=130&cat=1 > > GOWHAR BHAT > > Srinagar, July 8: At least 50 persons, including six policemen were > injured, in the clashes between the policemen and protesters in > various parts of the city Wednesday, following the murder of a Maisuma > youth. > Asrar Mushtaq, 19, a 2nd year student at Islamia College, had gone > missing on Friday evening after he had left home for gymnasium. Police > recovered his throat-slit body from Sheikh Mohalla near Malkha in old > city late last night and handed it over to his family this morning. > As the word about his death spread this morning, scores of angry > protesters, including men and women, took to streets near Maisuma and > its adjoining localities including Jehangir Chowk, Hari Singh High > Street, Saraibala and staged protests. They blocked the roads by > burning tyres. They later enforced a shutdown in the entire city > centre following which all the shops, banks, educational institutes > were closed. > As police and paramilitary CRPF personnel tried to control the > protesters, the angry youth attacked several police vehicles. They > intercepted a police bus, JK02R- 5444, near Maisuma and set it ablaze > before beating-up the policemen. > Police later beat up the protesters with batons and fired tear smoke > canisters to disperse them. The protesters refused to budge and > retailed with stones. Police fired several live rounds in air to > disperse the agitating youth, injuring several of them. > The protests spread to several parts of the city including Batamaloo, > Rajouri Kadal, Habba Kadal, Nowhatta, Gojwara, Rainawari and other > areas. Huge deployments of police and CRPF troopers used force to > quell the protesters. However, ding dong battles between the > protesters and policemen in different parts of the city continued till > late in the evening. > In view of the situation, authorities later imposed curfew in Maisuma > and didn’t allow people to come out their homes. In old city, > officials said section 144 was imposed. > > PROTESTERS FREE MALIK > Amid pro-freedom slogans Asrar’s body was taken out from the locality > in the afternoon for burial. The protesters also broke the police > cordon around the residence of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front > chairman, Muhammad Yasin Malik, who has been under house arrest for > past 2-months, and took him along. Later thousands of people offered > Asrar’s Nimaz-e-Jinazah near clock tower. > > BUILDINGS ATTACKED > As mourners took his body for burial towards his ancestral graveyard > near Dalgate from Moulana Azad Road, the angry youth attacked several > buildings and hotels including the corporate headquarters of J&K Bank. > They also set ablaze several kiosks of traffic police personnel and > hoardings along the road. Several vehicles were also damaged as they > pelted stones on the government buildings. > > OLD CITY > During protests near Rajouri Kadal, two youth were critically injured > when they were hit by a tear smoke canisters. They were later shifted > to SKIMS where doctors termed the condition of one of the youth, Obaid > Nabi, of Shamsabad, Bemina as critical. > Late in the evening when the protests subsided, residents of > Batamaloo and Maisuma alleged that the CRPF troopers barged into the > residential houses. They said the troopers smashed the window panes of > houses and thrashed the inmates. > > 3 INJURED IN NAID KADAL > At least three persons were injured when paramilitary CRPF troopers > opened fire on the protesters near Naid Kadal in old city on Wednesday > evening, witnesses said. > They said injured were shifted to a hospital where condition of one > of the youth’s was stated to be critical. > > PROTESTS IN KU > Meanwhile, the Kashmir University students also held protest > demonstrations against the killing of the disappeared youth. The > students raised slogans and marched peacefully towards the main > entrance of the KU where they staged a sit-in. They demanded that the > case be investigated and the culprits be brought to book. > > POLICE VERSION > When contacted the senior superintendent of police, Ahfad-ul-Mujtaba, > said six policemen were injured in the day long clashes. > He said restrictions were imposed in parts of the city as protesters > indulged in ransacking public and private property. Asked whether the > restrictions would continue, he said, “Adequate security measure would > be in place to deal with the situation.” > > MURDER CASE REGISTERED > Ahfadul Mujtaba said that police has registered a murder case 54/2009 > under section 302 in police station Rainawari under section 302 RPC. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 21:11:50 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:11:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907100817l10302080x9177c9550438ce85@mail.gmail.com> References: <47368.67598.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100445w438a8a91hdf96d111affb166b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907100706o6a2dba87sf1cd8544f79bb519@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100749r24b16748s42f7092553fd250e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100817l10302080x9177c9550438ce85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I know it's wrong to invoke God, for when one invokes the name of God or national interest, one invariably is trying to do the wrong thing. What we have to do is to try to make our society democratic. And tell these leaders clearly that they alone can't be allowed to represent their own 'religions'. And if they don't agree and create problems, we have the option of airlifting them to Afghanistan and the like places. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 10 23:26:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:56:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Big Brother is Watching You: Pervasive Surveillance Under Obama The DHS-NSA-AT&T "Cybersecurity" Partnership Message-ID: <65be9bf40907101056l114a77aax399d724e727de214@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Especially to all those who had Obama's name on their facebook updates not many months back this bit of news must give them some reason to rejoice, for our President is doing whatever he can, to make sure that policies under the Bush era must be 'changed'. Yes we Can!! Regards Taha Big Brother is Watching You: Pervasive Surveillance Under Obama The DHS-NSA-AT&T "Cybersecurity" Partnership by Tom Burghardt Under the rubric of cybersecurity, the Obama administration is moving forward with a Bush regime program to screen state computer traffic on private-sector networks, including those connecting people to the Internet, The Washington Post revealed July 3. That project, code-named "Einstein," may very well be related to the much-larger, ongoing and highly illegal National Security Agency (NSA) communications intercept program known as "Stellar Wind," disclosed in 2005 by The New York Times. There are several components to Stellar Wind, one of which is a massive data-mining project run by the agency. As USA Today revealed in 2006, the "National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth." Under the current program, Einstein will be tied directly into giant NSA data bases that contain the trace signatures left behind by cyberattacks; these immense electronic warehouses will be be fed by information streamed to the agency by the nation's telecommunications providers. AT&T, in partnership with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the NSA will spearhead the aggressive new initiative to detect malicious attacks launched against government web sites--by continuing to monitor the electronic communications of Americans. This contradicts President Obama's pledge announcing his administration's cybersecurity program on May 29. During White House remarks Obama said that the government will not continue Bush-era surveillance practices or include "monitoring private sector networks or Internet traffic." Called the "flagship system" in the national security state's cyber defense arsenal, The Wall Street Journal reports that Einstein is "designed to protect the U.S. government's computer networks from cyberspies." In addition to cost overruns and mismanagement by outsourced contractors, the system "is being stymied by technical limitations and privacy concerns." According to the Journal, Einstein is being developed in three stages: Einstein 1: Monitors Internet traffic flowing in and out of federal civilian networks. Detects abnormalities that might be cyber attacks. Is unable to block attacks. Einstein 2: In addition to looking for abnormalities, detects viruses and other indicators of attacks based on signatures of known incidents, and alerts analysts immediately. Also can't block attacks. Einstein 3: Under development. Based on technology developed for a National Security Agency program called Tutelage, it detects and deflects security breaches. Its filtering technology can read the content of email and other communications. (Siobhan Gorman, "Troubles Plague Cyberspy Defense," The Wall Street Journal, July 3, 2009) As readers of Antifascist Calling are well aware, like other telecom grifters, AT&T is a private-sector partner of NSA and continues to be a key player in the agency's driftnet spying on Americans' electronic communications. In 2006, AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein revealed in a sworn affidavit, that the firm's Internet traffic that runs through fiber-optic cables at the company's Folsom Street facility in San Francisco was routinely provided to the National Security Agency. Using a device known as a splitter, a complete copy of Internet traffic that AT&T receives--email, web browsing requests and other electronic communications sent by AT&T customers, was diverted onto a separate fiber-optic cable connected to the company's SG-3 room, controlled by the agency. Only personnel with NSA clearances--either working for, or on behalf of the agency--have access to this room. Klein and other critics of the program, including investigative journalist James Bamford who reported in his book, The Shadow Factory, believe that some 15-30 identical NSA-controlled rooms exist at AT&T facilities scattered across the country. Einstein: You Don't Have to Be a Genius to Know They're Lying But what happens next, after the data is processed and catalogued by the agency is little understood. Programs such as Einstein will provide NSA with the ability to read and decipher the content of email messages, any and all messages in real-time. While DHS claims that "the new program will scrutinize only data going to or from government systems," the Post reports that a debate has been sparked within the agency over "uncertainty about whether private data can be shielded from unauthorized scrutiny, how much of a role NSA should play and whether the agency's involvement in warrantless wiretapping during George W. Bush's presidency would draw controversy." A "Privacy Impact Assessment (PIA) for EINSTEIN 2" issued by DHS in May 2008, claims the system is interested in "malicious activity" and not personally identifiable information flowing into federal networks. While DHS claims that "the risk associated with the use of this computer network security intrusion detection system is actually lower than the risk generated by using a commercially available intrusion detection system," this assertion is undercut when the agency states, "Internet users have no expectation of privacy in the to/from address of their messages or the IP addresses of the sites they visit." When Einstein 3 is eventually rolled-out, Internet users similarly will "have no expectation of privacy" when it comes to the content of their communications. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano told reporters, "we absolutely intend to use the technical resources, the substantial ones, that NSA has." Seeking to deflect criticism from civil libertarians, Napolitano claims "they will be guided, led and in a sense directed by the people we have at the Department of Homeland Security." Despite protests to the contrary by securocrats, like other Bush and Obama "cybersecurity" initiatives the Einstein program is a backdoor for pervasive state surveillance. Government Computer News reported in December 2008 that Marc Rotenberg, the executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) said that "the misuse or exposure of sensitive data from such a program [Einstein] could undermine the security arguments for surveillance." And with Internet Service Providers routinely deploying deep packet inspection tools to "siphon off requested traffic for law enforcement," tools with the ability to "inspect and shape every single packet--in real time--for nearly a million simultaneous connections" as Ars Technica reported, to assume that ISPs will protect Americans' privacy rights from out-of-control state agencies is a foolhardy supposition at best. The latest version of the system will not be rolled-out for at least 18 months. But like the Stellar Wind driftnet surveillance program, communications intercepted by Einstein 3 will be routed through a "monitoring box" controlled by NSA and their civilian contractors. Under a classified pilot program approved during the Bush administration, NSA data and hardware would be used to protect the networks of some civilian government agencies. Part of an initiative known as Einstein 3, the plan called for telecommunications companies to route the Internet traffic of civilian agencies through a monitoring box that would search for and block computer codes designed to penetrate or otherwise compromise networks. (Ellen Nakashima, "Cybersecurity Plan to Involve NSA, Telecoms," The Washington Post, July 3, 2009) However, investigative journalist Wayne Madsen reported last September "that the Bush administration has authorized massive surveillance of the Internet using as cover a cyber-security multi-billion dollar project called the 'Einstein' program." While some researchers (including this one) question Madsen's overreliance on anonymous sources and undisclosed documents, in fairness it should be pointed out that nine months before The New York Times described the NSA's secret e-mail collection database known as Pinwale, Madsen had already identified and broken the story. According to Madsen, The classified technology being used for Einstein was developed for the NSA in conducting signals intelligence (SIGINT) operations on email networks in Russia. Code-named PINWHEEL, the NSA email surveillance system targets Russian government, military, diplomatic, and commercial email traffic and burrows into the text portions of the email to search for particular words and phrases of interest to NSA eavesdroppers. According to NSA documents obtained by WMR, there is an NSA system code-named "PINWALE." The DNI and NSA also plan to move Einstein into the private sector by claiming the nation's critical infrastructure, by nature, overlaps into the commercial sector. There are classified plans, already budgeted in so-called "black" projects, to extend Einstein surveillance into the dot (.) com, dot (.) edu, dot (.) int, and dot (.) org, as well as other Internet domains. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has budgeted $5.4 billion for Einstein in his department's FY2009 information technology budget. However, this amount does not take into account the "black" budgets for Einstein proliferation throughout the U.S. telecommunications network contained in the budgets for NSA and DNI. (Wayne Madsen, "'Einstein' replaces 'Big Brother' in Internet Surveillance," Online Journal, September 19, 2008) A follow-up article published in February, identified the ultra-spooky Booz Allen Hamilton firm as the developer of Pinwale, an illegal program for the interception of text communications. According to Madsen, "the system is linked to a number of meta-databases that contain e-mail, faxes, and text messages of hundreds of millions of people around the world and in the United States." In other words both classified programs, Pinwale and Einstein, are sophisticated electronic communications surveillance projects that most certainly will train the agency's formidable intelligence assets on the American people "using as cover a cyber-security multi-billion dollar project called the 'Einstein' program," as Madsen reported. AT&T: "No Comment" An AT&T spokesman refused to comment on the proposals and is seeking legal protection from the state that it will not be sued for privacy breaches as a result of its participation in the new program. "Legal certification" the Post reports, "has been held up for several months as DHS prepares a contract." NSA's involvement is critical proponents claim, because the agency has a readily-accessible database of computer codes, or signatures "that have been linked to cyberattacks or known adversaries. The NSA has compiled the cache by, for example, electronically observing hackers trying to gain access to U.S. military systems," the Post averred. Calling NSA's cache "the secret sauce...it's the stuff they have that the private sector doesn't," is what raises alarms for privacy and civil liberties' advocates. Known as Tutelage, NSA's classified program can detect and automatically decide how to deal with malicious intrusions, "to block them or watch them closely to better assess the threat," according to the Post. "The database for the program would also contain feeds from commercial firms and DHS's U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team, administration officials said." Jeff Mohan, AT&T's executive director for Einstein, was more forthcoming earlier this year. He told Federal News Radio: "With these services, we will provide a secure portal from the agency's infrastructure, or Intranet to the public internet. There is a technical aspect, which is routers, firewalls and that sort of thing that applies these security capabilities across that portal and looks a Internet traffic that comes from public Internet to Intranet and vice versa." The "technical aspect" will also provide federal agencies the ability to capture, sort, read and then store Americans' private communications in huge data bases run by NSA. Mohan said that AT&T will provide the state with "optional services such as scanning e-mail and placing filters on agency networks to keep malicious e-mail off the network as well as forensic and storage capabilities also are available through MTIPS [Managed Trusted Internet Protocol Services]." In addition to AT&T, other private partners awarded contracts under the General Services Administration's MTIPS which has a built-in "Einstein enclave" include: Sprint, L3 Communications, Qwest, MCI, General Dynamics and Verizon, according to multiple reports published by Federal Computer Week. Claiming that the state is "looking for malicious content, not a love note to someone with a dot-gov e-mail address," a former unnamed "senior Bush administration official" told the Post "what we're interested in is finding the code, the thing that will do the network harm, not reading the e-mail itself." Try selling that to the tens of millions of Americans whose private communications have been illegally spied upon by the Bush and Obama administrations or leftist dissidents singled-out for "special handling" by the national security state's public-private surveillance partnership! An Electronic Spider's Web As the "global war on terror" morphs into an endless war on our democratic rights, the NSA is expanding domestic operations by "decentralizing its massive computer hubs," The Salt Lake Tribune revealed. The agency "will build a 1-million-square-foot data center at Utah's Camp Williams," the newspaper disclosed July 1. The new facility would be NSA's third major data center. In 2007, the agency announced plans to build a second data center in San Antonio, Texas after the Baltimore Sun reported that NSA had "maxed out" the electric capacity of the Baltimore area's power grid. The San Antonio Current reported in December, that the NSA's Texas Cryptology Center will cost "upwards of $130 million." The 470,000 square-foot-facility is adjacent to a similar center constructed by software giant Microsoft. Investigative journalist James Bamford told the Current that under current law "NSA could gain access to Microsoft's stored data without even a warrant, but merely a fiber-optic cable." A follow-up article by The Salt Lake Tribune reported that the facility will cost upwards of $2 billion dollars and that funds have already been appropriated by the Obama administration for NSA's new data center and listening post. The secretive agency released a statement Thursday acknowledging the selection of Camp Williams as a site for the new center and describing it as "a specialized facility that houses computer systems and supporting equipment." Budget documents provide a more detailed picture of the facility and its mission. The supercomputers in the center will be part of the NSA's signal intelligence program, which seeks to "gain a decisive information advantage for the nation and our allies under all circumstances" according to the documents. (Matthew D. LaPlante, "New NSA Center Unveiled in Budget Documents," The Salt Lake Tribune, July 2, 2009) Not everyone is pleased with the announcement. Steve Erickson, the director of the antiwar Citizens Education Project told the Tribune, "Finally, the Patriot Act has a home." While the total cost of rolling-out the Einstein 3 system is classified, The Wall Street Journal reports that "the price tag was expected to exceed $2 billion." And as with other national security state initiatives, it is the American people who are footing the bill for the destruction of our democratic rights. Tom Burghardt is a frequent contributor to Global Research. From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 00:03:39 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:33:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Kimjongilia - North Korea film screening Message-ID: <30539293.1247250820381.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I just thought you all would enjoy this... I'm presenting a benefit screening for a friends new film about North Korea. All proceeds of the evening go to help raise awareness about the situation in North Korea. We're expecting quite a few people, so I just wanted to give you all a headz up. Basically, it's about human rights. Tix are by donation but we're asking everyone to donate $20 bring friends! Kimjongilia: A Film about North Korea by NC Heiken http://www.kimjongiliathemovie.com/ The film screening is on July 13, 7:30pm at Anthology Film Archives 32 Second Ave NY NY 1003 come and hang out! There'll be lots of people from different scenes, and I think it's going to be a great dialog with several human rights advocates for North Korea. We're also having a raffle of T-shirts a la this one, and will have limited edition posters I've designed to be raffled away to benefit human rights screenings of the film. I hope you can make it. Paul From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 00:10:41 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:10:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you, according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that you can only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but with no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof before you resort to any more mud slinging. Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the more. You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by just abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. It is quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his shows overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I know briefly about. You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just like that. Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those media people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the so called SECULAR Media. I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point further. Grow up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on internet alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than my words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't remain in the four walls of ignorance. I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to disagree. You shouldn't force your opinion on others. 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. love On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, this > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his followers > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > television. > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being cured by > that > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev eating on air > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in tribal areas > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the villagers > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of indian > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class Hindu > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from Hindu > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even more > (says a latest TOI report) . > > -with warmest regards > anupam > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some day. > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev hasn't > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. Spreading > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It qualifies > > you > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > > disability > > openly on sarai today. > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of followers > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may continue > to > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure how > rich > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of money. > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > Love > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I think > you > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three > wives, > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was > > described > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse habits. i > > am > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko baba, > > which > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it with > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has > > reached > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your ideas of > > > yoga > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev and > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian > > society. > > > > > > -regards > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or a > > > > father. > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to > this > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common > > people > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It > > > helps > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who > > say > > > > that > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > > homosexuality > > > > is > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations > in > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > > cure... > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sat Jul 11 00:59:16 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:59:16 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear ALL, Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different perceptions of reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured. Hostel life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have co-educational hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a result of selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to himself is not hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and force them into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in such a society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why do we carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and increases the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which itself shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against homosexuals. We need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in every society, of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such iron actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in swines, man must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a check by LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted humans to behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to most prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have taken too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word 'Quack'. It is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off course, for reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem mordern, free of some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male sexual abuse is kept close guarded by  helpless males thinking of the stigma and social unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people still  on everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to develop one such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they did not say I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After Homosexuality is legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long as he does not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who need to think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice continues. And social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry was always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant, It continues.................................................................................................................   ________________________________ From: Aditya Raj Kaul To: sarai list Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... Dear Anupam I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you, according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that you can only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but with no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof before you resort to any more mud slinging. Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the more. You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by just abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. It is quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his shows overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I know briefly about. You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just like that. Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those media people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the so called SECULAR Media. I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point further. Grow up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on internet alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than my words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't remain in the four walls of ignorance. I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to disagree. You shouldn't force your opinion on others. 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. love On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, this > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his followers > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > television.. > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being cured by > that > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev eating on air > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in tribal areas > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the villagers > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of indian > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class Hindu > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from Hindu > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even more > (says a latest TOI report) . > > -with warmest regards > anupam > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some day. > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev hasn't > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. Spreading > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It qualifies > > you > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > > disability > > openly on sarai today. > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of followers > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may continue > to > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure how > rich > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of money. > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > Love > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I think > you > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three > wives, > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was > > described > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse habits. i > > am > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko baba, > > which > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it with > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has > > reached > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your ideas of > > > yoga > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev and > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian > > society. > > > > > > -regards > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or a > > > > father. > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to > this > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common > > people > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It > > > helps > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba who > > say > > > > that > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > > homosexuality > > > > is > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations > in > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > > cure... > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai..net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From manakmatiyani at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 09:00:25 2009 From: manakmatiyani at gmail.com (Manak Matiyani) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:00:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, As the debate on homosexuality in the indian media gets more and more ridiculous we all wait for the government to finally take a stand. Although one hears now that the center would ask for an extension to file their reply to the supreme court. The heated public opinions makes it difficult for them to support the high court decision without losing the support of religious leaders. Personally, I feel baba Ramdev seems to be against sex in general and hopes to cure homosexuals well enough to produce children in dysfunctional, loveless families. The problem with current religious leaders is that they want to brush the fact of sex and sexuality under the carpet, or in this case, into the closet as though finding joy in sex itself were the disease. "Love your friends, love your parents, love many men, but there should be no sexual desire (vaasana) in that " says the Baba. And this call for a sexless life seems to find many followers as long as their own joys and acts are covered by the stamp of heterosexual marriage. Frankly, i've heard the sex for procreation lectures for a long time and and i refuse to buy it. Last time i checked, condom's were not freely available in nature, yet the government distributes them and for good reason. Our ideas or sex, sexuality and love must all evolve with the time, as has baba Ramdev's yoga! I wonder how firmly the moral fabric of a society balancing on the thin string of lies and deception will hold. What good will the criminalisation of homosexuality would achieve other than forcing a large section of the population back into a life of fear and unable to participate in the joys of loving and living freely. The self appointed custodians of social and moral fabric should perhaps engage themselves with the many other wrongs of our society and leave the few rights alone. The one thing that is clear is that Ramdev's petition is scientifically ill founded and weak, but would go a long way riding on his popularity and public appeal. Today, in psychology it would be malpractice to say homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. Medical science has for long cleared that doubt for all of us. The reading down of an archaic law was another positive step in the direction of a free and just society. The social stigma remains, but perhaps that too would gradually change. Religion and religious leaders can only guide the lives of their followers and not dictate legislation. My knowledge of yoga, indian scriptures and scientific basis for homosexuality is very limited, so i thought it wise to post an insightful article that i came across to add to this discussion. Here's Devdutt Pattanaik's response to the baba's tirade. http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/10/baba-ramdev-is-wrong-homosexuality-is-no-disease.htm Manak. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ *Baba Ramdev is wrong, homosexuality is no disease* *Dr Devdutt Pattanaik* * * *July 10, 2009 Baba Ramdev calls homosexuality a disease. No textbook of psychiatry says so. The World Health Organisation does not say so. And no, not even the scriptures, certainly not the Yoga Sutra, says so. In all probability, this is the Baba's personal opinion. He has a right to his opinion. But can a country's law be based on his opinion? The problem is that the Baba is a celebrity and in the times we live in, celebrities, especially those with a religious and cultural aura, are seen as voices of authority. We must be careful about such opinions. The practice of using science to justify social prejudices is not something new. Baba Ramdev [Images ], with his charm and benign smile, is doing what has been done before. I remember an old black and white film starring Nutan called Sujata where a respected elder of the family explains the physiological reason for sustaining the practice of untouchability. 'They produce a lethal gas,' he said referring to the Dalits. Because the gentleman had standing, his opinion mattered. Many people agreed with the learned family friend. Not the hero. Not us. In Hitler's [Images ] Germany [Images ], hundreds of scientists dressed in white coats earnestly believed and rationalised that Jews were a social pathology, a disease, a gangrene that had to be wiped out to create a perfect, healthy society. This resulted in the Holocaust. It disgusts us today. In South Africa [Images ], there were many scholars who went out of their way to publish articles to rationalise apartheid. They considered the non-White races to be subhuman. An entire social structure was constructed based on this ideology. We must be careful of such rhetoric. The term 'disease' presupposes a normal health condition. Modern medicine uses this term very cautiously -- the patient must be distressed by it, or it must threaten a person's well-being, before it can be labelled disease. Disease cannot be a term used by a community to brand and weed out people that it is uncomfortable with. An unpopular social group cannot be labelled 'diseased' to justify extermination. In Sparta, children who were born with congenital abnormalities, say a cleft lip and a malformed limb, were immediately killed. In the Mahabharata [ Images ], a blind man was not allowed to be king. In Australia [Images ], well meaning ladies funded a project to forcibly take children from Aboriginal homes to prevent abnormal/diseased parenting and give them away in adoption to white parents. Would we do that today? Significantly, even the term 'supernatural' presupposes a normal state of being. So a being with three heads in one culture would be seen as 'deformed' in another; he would be seen as 'supernatural' -- a demon for one, a god for another. How shall we classify deities with three heads and four arms? By whose gaze? By whose lens? By whose measuring scale? Ten thousand years ago, when food was scarce, a fat woman was worshipped as a goddess. Today, we consider her obese and psychologically torment her till she diets, exercises and sheds fat. Is that fair? Logic and science and authority can be used to justify anything. But ultimately we have to ask -- what is our goalpost? Imagine your daughter is getting married to a nice young man who has homosexual feelings. Until a few weeks ago, he never told the world about it for fear of being branded a criminal. Now, no thanks to the Baba, he feels he is mad. He does not think so. He does not feel so. But he is afraid to tell the world the truth of his desires. So he has firmly entrenched himself in the closet. He will tell no one, certainly not his mother, or father, or brother, that he has had sex with men. Not one or two, but dozens, secretly, silently, furtive experiences, with men who like him are afraid to disclose their preferences in public lest they be labelled criminals or diseased. He will marry your daughter. And your daughter will wonder why, in the privacy of the bedroom, this nice man shuns any attempt to be being intimate. Is she the problem? Her self worth will suffer. The marriage will suffer. Children will be conceived in loveless unions. The man will find it difficult to be faithful and seek comfort elsewhere. And your daughter will wonder what is wrong. The secret will never be revealed. Everyone in this patriarchal society will blame the daughter. A sham of a marriage -- only because of a law, an intolerant society and Baba's authoritative opinion. Homosexuality is natural -- it has been documented in animal species. Homosexual feelings are not a choice -- they exist in every human society. Why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? No one really knows the answer. It is like asking, why do humans experience orgasm? Orgasm does not play any role in procreation. Why does it exist (and it is found only in the human species and a few primates)? We can only speculate but we will never know. The question is -- what are we as a civil human society doing about it? Do we call orgasm -- unnatural or miraculous, God's gift to humanity? What behaviour do we propose? Should we act on homosexual feelings or suppress them, stay celibate and serve society, as the good Baba suggests? Is celibacy a 'good' thing? In the Mahabharata, sages like Agastya, Kardama and Jaratkaru are reviled by their ancestors for being celibate. 'Repay your debt to your ancestors,' they demanded and forced the rishis to marry and produce children. This desire for children stretched to a point where if one was sterile, as in case of Pandu, one was expected to send one's wife to a stranger to get impregnated by him. Rishis had to have sex to produce children -- but were expected to be disciplined enough not to get pleasure out of it, to have sex without orgasm, for procreation, nothing else. What about the wives of the rishis, one may ask. In one conversation with Urvashi, female sexual desire itself is described as a disease to be curtailed with fidelity and marriage. The epic refers to a time when women were free to express their desires followed by a time when they were restrained by laws of fidelity and chastity. Clearly, definition of what constitutes normal changed over time. The changes continued with the rise of monastic orders like Buddhism (which incidentally popularised the saffron colour). Suddenly monasticism became superior social behaviour. It is so even today, not just in Buddhism but also in Jainism, in Roman Catholicism, and, thanks to the Shankaracharya, even in Hinduism. While Sufi mystics chose to be celibate, ask a traditional Muslim cleric if celibacy is acceptable social behaviour. In all probability he will say no. He will insist on marriage and children and a householder's life. So much for celebration of celibacy. What is normal and what is healthy is based on a measuring scale. Different people have different measuring scales. Notions of what is normal and what is not, what is physiological and what is pathological, change with time and place. In this ever fluid world, how does one separate acceptable social conduct from what is unacceptable? Society, after all, is not a jungle. A civil society exists to include people to enable them to live lives to their full potential. The underlying principle is empathy. I am sure the Baba has empathy. But he also has a measuring scale by which he considers same sex desires a disease. One can show him findings from the animal kingdom, one can show him psychiatric text books, one can show him scriptural evidence of inter-sex states -- but he will dismiss it all as 'Western'. His measuring scale does not include everyone. The Baba will say yoga considers homosexuality a disease. People will believe him. The media will quote him. And it will become about yoga and Western science. But strangely, the notion of disease does not exist in yoga. In yoga, all discussions are about creating harmony. And what is harmonious depends on the environment and goal -- thus, what is good in one situation for one purpose may not be so in another. Thus, the approach to ailment is very different form Western science. Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra defines yoga as 'chitta vriddhi nirodha' -- the uncrumpling of the crumpled mind. The goal post of yoga is to realise divinity (some would say one's true self) by overpowering prejudice through increased awareness. I suspect, despite all the asanas and the pranayamas, the great yoga master has still some prejudices to uncrumple. Dr Devdutt Pattanaik www.devdutt.com) is a medical doctor by training and a mythologist by passion. After working in the pharma industry for over 14 years, he is now Chief Belief Officer at the Future Group. A renowned speaker and columnist, he has written over a dozen books on the relevance of sacred stories, symbols and rituals in modern times * On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, subhrodip sengupta < sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Dear ALL, > Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different perceptions of > reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured. Hostel > life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have co-educational > hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a result of > selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to himself is not > hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and force them > into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in such a > society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why do we > carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not > homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and increases > the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which itself > shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against homosexuals. We > need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in every > society, > of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such iron > actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in swines, man > must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a check by > LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted humans to > behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to most > prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have taken > too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word 'Quack'. It > is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off course, for > reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem mordern, free of > some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male sexual abuse > is kept close guarded by helpless males thinking of the stigma and social > unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people still on > everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of > self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to develop one > such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they did not say > I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After Homosexuality is > legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for > authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long as he does > not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who need to > think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice continues. And > social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry was > always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant, > It > continues................................................................................................................. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > To: sarai list > Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > Dear Anupam > > I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you, > according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that you > can > only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but with > no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof > before > you resort to any more mud slinging. > > Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from > multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the more. > You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by just > abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. It is > quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his shows > overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I know > briefly about. > > You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just like > that. > Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those media > people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the so > called SECULAR Media. > > I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point further. Grow > up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on internet > alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than my > words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't > remain > in the four walls of ignorance. > > I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to disagree. You > shouldn't force your opinion on others. > > 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. > > love > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, this > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his followers > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > > television.. > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being cured by > > that > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev eating on > air > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in tribal > areas > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the villagers > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of indian > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class Hindu > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from Hindu > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even more > > (says a latest TOI report) . > > > > -with warmest regards > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some day. > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev hasn't > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. > Spreading > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It > qualifies > > > you > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > > > disability > > > openly on sarai today. > > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of > followers > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may > continue > > to > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure how > > rich > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of > money. > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > > > Love > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I think > > you > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three > > wives, > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was > > > described > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse habits. > i > > > am > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko baba, > > > which > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it > with > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has > > > reached > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your ideas > of > > > > yoga > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev > and > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian > > > society. > > > > > > > > -regards > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi or > a > > > > > father. > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to > > this > > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common > > > people > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. > It > > > > helps > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba > who > > > say > > > > > that > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > > > homosexuality > > > > > is > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual relations > > in > > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > > > cure... > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > -- Definitions belong to the definers not to the defined. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 11:56:40 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:56:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, Let me be very clear about this. You cite the social service done by this Ramdev character. I agree he is doing a good job out of the shivirs, precisely by making his moolah. and you know it very well with the kind of money he charges from people. He has cured 1000s of people so has several doctors in the rural india who also get a steady stream of visitors. now Ramdev wants to contest the Delhi High Court order on Section 377 which decriminalises homosexuality in India. Ramdev is a healer, if i were to say so it benefits him to put his message across to the people -- his audience that homosexuality is a disease. By stating that homosexuality is a disease, now he will be making more money out of it just like several doctors and pharmaceutical companies, computer virus protection softwares mint money in the name of diseases and various ailment. contrary to your belief, Ramdev has no other motive, not even for the cause of the larger indian society, which is only around 60 % literate, but to mint money by 'curing' the cases of homosexuality and turning them "straight" with his medicines. obviously he wont be able to cheat his patients for a long time. since you are citing Brinda and Co and their so-called campaign backed by multinationals, it is the same tendency of this Ramdev fellow to mint money by calling homosexuality a disease. i think you are not capable of arguing so you resort to name-calling and ad hominem attacks. so you better work on it pal. on everyone here instead of arguing your case. you havent been able to provide any kind of proof that homosexuality is a disease. -anupam On 7/11/09, Manak Matiyani wrote: > Dear All, > As the debate on homosexuality in the indian media gets more and more > ridiculous we all wait for the government to finally take a stand. Although > one hears now that the center would ask for an extension to file their > reply > to the supreme court. The heated public opinions makes it difficult for > them > to support the high court decision without losing the support of religious > leaders. > > Personally, I feel baba Ramdev seems to be against sex in general and hopes > to cure homosexuals well enough to produce children in dysfunctional, > loveless families. The problem with current religious leaders is that they > want to brush the fact of sex and sexuality under the carpet, or in this > case, into the closet as though finding joy in sex itself were the disease. > "Love your friends, love your parents, love many men, but there should be > no > sexual desire (vaasana) in that " says the Baba. And this call for a > sexless > life seems to find many followers as long as their own joys and acts are > covered by the stamp of heterosexual marriage. Frankly, i've heard the sex > for procreation lectures for a long time and and i refuse to buy it. Last > time i checked, condom's were not freely available in nature, yet the > government distributes them and for good reason. Our ideas or sex, > sexuality > and love must all evolve with the time, as has baba Ramdev's yoga! > > I wonder how firmly the moral fabric of a society balancing on the thin > string of lies and deception will hold. What good will the criminalisation > of homosexuality would achieve other than forcing a large section of the > population back into a life of fear and unable to participate in the joys > of > loving and living freely. The self appointed custodians of social and moral > fabric should perhaps engage themselves with the many other wrongs of our > society and leave the few rights alone. > > The one thing that is clear is that Ramdev's petition is scientifically > ill > founded and weak, but would go a long way riding on his popularity and > public appeal. Today, in psychology it would be malpractice to say > homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. Medical science has for long > cleared that doubt for all of us. The reading down of an archaic law was > another positive step in the direction of a free and just society. The > social stigma remains, but perhaps that too would gradually change. > Religion > and religious leaders can only guide the lives of their followers and not > dictate legislation. > > My knowledge of yoga, indian scriptures and scientific basis for > homosexuality is very limited, so i thought it wise to post an insightful > article that i came across to add to this discussion. > > Here's Devdutt Pattanaik's response to the baba's tirade. > > > http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/10/baba-ramdev-is-wrong-homosexuality-is-no-disease.htm > > Manak. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________________ > > *Baba Ramdev is wrong, homosexuality is no disease* > *Dr Devdutt Pattanaik* > * > * > *July 10, 2009 > Baba Ramdev calls homosexuality a disease. No textbook of psychiatry says > so. The World Health Organisation does not say so. And no, not even the > scriptures, certainly not the Yoga Sutra, says so. In all probability, this > is the Baba's personal opinion. He has a right to his opinion. But can a > country's law be based on his opinion? > > The problem is that the Baba is a celebrity and in the times we live in, > celebrities, especially those with a religious and cultural aura, are seen > as voices of authority. We must be careful about such opinions. The > practice > of using science to justify social prejudices is not something new. Baba > Ramdev [Images< > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=baba%20ramdev> > ], with his charm and benign smile, is doing what has been done before. > > I remember an old black and white film starring Nutan called Sujata where a > respected elder of the family explains the physiological reason for > sustaining the practice of untouchability. 'They produce a lethal gas,' he > said referring to the Dalits. Because the gentleman had standing, his > opinion mattered. Many people agreed with the learned family friend. Not > the > hero. Not us. > > In Hitler's [Images < > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=hitler> > ] Germany [Images >], > hundreds of scientists dressed in white coats earnestly believed and > rationalised that Jews were a social pathology, a disease, a gangrene that > had to be wiped out to create a perfect, healthy society. This resulted in > the Holocaust. It disgusts us today. > > In South Africa > [Images > ], there were many scholars who went out of their way to publish articles > to > rationalise apartheid. They considered the non-White races to be subhuman. > An entire social structure was constructed based on this ideology. We must > be careful of such rhetoric. > > The term 'disease' presupposes a normal health condition. Modern medicine > uses this term very cautiously -- the patient must be distressed by it, or > it must threaten a person's well-being, before it can be labelled disease. > Disease cannot be a term used by a community to brand and weed out people > that it is uncomfortable with. An unpopular social group cannot be labelled > 'diseased' to justify extermination. > > In Sparta, children who were born with congenital abnormalities, say a > cleft > lip and a malformed limb, were immediately killed. In the Mahabharata [ > Images ], a > blind man was not allowed to be king. In Australia > [Images > ], well meaning ladies funded a project to forcibly take children from > Aboriginal homes to prevent abnormal/diseased parenting and give them away > in adoption to white parents. Would we do that today? > > Significantly, even the term 'supernatural' presupposes a normal state of > being. So a being with three heads in one culture would be seen as > 'deformed' in another; he would be seen as 'supernatural' -- a demon for > one, a god for another. How shall we classify deities with three heads and > four arms? By whose gaze? By whose lens? By whose measuring scale? Ten > thousand years ago, when food was scarce, a fat woman was worshipped as a > goddess. Today, we consider her obese and psychologically torment her till > she diets, exercises and sheds fat. Is that fair? > > Logic and science and authority can be used to justify anything. But > ultimately we have to ask -- what is our goalpost? Imagine your daughter is > getting married to a nice young man who has homosexual feelings. Until a > few > weeks ago, he never told the world about it for fear of being branded a > criminal. > > Now, no thanks to the Baba, he feels he is mad. He does not think so. He > does not feel so. But he is afraid to tell the world the truth of his > desires. So he has firmly entrenched himself in the closet. > > He will tell no one, certainly not his mother, or father, or brother, that > he has had sex with men. Not one or two, but dozens, secretly, silently, > furtive experiences, with men who like him are afraid to disclose their > preferences in public lest they be labelled criminals or diseased. > > He will marry your daughter. And your daughter will wonder why, in the > privacy of the bedroom, this nice man shuns any attempt to be being > intimate. Is she the problem? Her self worth will suffer. The marriage will > suffer. Children will be conceived in loveless unions. The man will find it > difficult to be faithful and seek comfort elsewhere. And your daughter will > wonder what is wrong. > > The secret will never be revealed. Everyone in this patriarchal society > will > blame the daughter. A sham of a marriage -- only because of a law, an > intolerant society and Baba's authoritative opinion. > > Homosexuality is natural -- it has been documented in animal species. > Homosexual feelings are not a choice -- they exist in every human society. > Why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? No one really knows the > answer. It is like asking, why do humans experience orgasm? Orgasm does not > play any role in procreation. Why does it exist (and it is found only in > the > human species and a few primates)? We can only speculate but we will never > know. > > The question is -- what are we as a civil human society doing about it? Do > we call orgasm -- unnatural or miraculous, God's gift to humanity? What > behaviour do we propose? Should we act on homosexual feelings or suppress > them, stay celibate and serve society, as the good Baba suggests? Is > celibacy a 'good' thing? > > In the Mahabharata, sages like Agastya, Kardama and Jaratkaru are reviled > by > their ancestors for being celibate. 'Repay your debt to your ancestors,' > they demanded and forced the rishis to marry and produce children. This > desire for children stretched to a point where if one was sterile, as in > case of Pandu, one was expected to send one's wife to a stranger to get > impregnated by him. > > Rishis had to have sex to produce children -- but were expected to be > disciplined enough not to get pleasure out of it, to have sex without > orgasm, for procreation, nothing else. > > What about the wives of the rishis, one may ask. In one conversation with > Urvashi, female sexual desire itself is described as a disease to be > curtailed with fidelity and marriage. The epic refers to a time when women > were free to express their desires followed by a time when they were > restrained by laws of fidelity and chastity. Clearly, definition of what > constitutes normal changed over time. > > The changes continued with the rise of monastic orders like Buddhism (which > incidentally popularised the saffron colour). Suddenly monasticism became > superior social behaviour. It is so even today, not just in Buddhism but > also in Jainism, in Roman Catholicism, and, thanks to the Shankaracharya, > even in Hinduism. > > While Sufi mystics chose to be celibate, ask a traditional Muslim cleric if > celibacy is acceptable social behaviour. In all probability he will say no. > He will insist on marriage and children and a householder's life. So much > for celebration of celibacy. > > What is normal and what is healthy is based on a measuring scale. Different > people have different measuring scales. Notions of what is normal and what > is not, what is physiological and what is pathological, change with time > and > place. > > In this ever fluid world, how does one separate acceptable social conduct > from what is unacceptable? Society, after all, is not a jungle. > > A civil society exists to include people to enable them to live lives to > their full potential. The underlying principle is empathy. I am sure the > Baba has empathy. But he also has a measuring scale by which he considers > same sex desires a disease. > > One can show him findings from the animal kingdom, one can show him > psychiatric text books, one can show him scriptural evidence of inter-sex > states -- but he will dismiss it all as 'Western'. His measuring scale does > not include everyone. > > The Baba will say yoga considers homosexuality a disease. People will > believe him. The media will quote him. And it will become about yoga and > Western science. But strangely, the notion of disease does not exist in > yoga. In yoga, all discussions are about creating harmony. And what is > harmonious depends on the environment and goal -- thus, what is good in one > situation for one purpose may not be so in another. Thus, the approach to > ailment is very different form Western science. > > Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra defines yoga as 'chitta vriddhi nirodha' -- the > uncrumpling of the crumpled mind. The goal post of yoga is to realise > divinity (some would say one's true self) by overpowering prejudice through > increased awareness. I suspect, despite all the asanas and the pranayamas, > the great yoga master has still some prejudices to uncrumple. > > Dr Devdutt Pattanaik www.devdutt.com) is a medical doctor by training and > a > mythologist by passion. After working in the pharma industry for over 14 > years, he is now Chief Belief Officer at the Future Group. A renowned > speaker and columnist, he has written over a dozen books on the relevance > of > sacred stories, symbols and rituals in modern times > > > > > > * > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, subhrodip sengupta < > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > > Dear ALL, > > Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different perceptions > of > > reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured. Hostel > > life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have co-educational > > hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a result of > > selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to himself is > not > > hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and force > them > > into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in such a > > society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why do we > > carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not > > homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and increases > > the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which > itself > > shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against homosexuals. > We > > need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in every > > society, > > of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such iron > > actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in swines, > man > > must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a check by > > LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted humans to > > behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to most > > prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have taken > > too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word 'Quack'. > It > > is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off course, > for > > reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem mordern, free > of > > some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male sexual > abuse > > is kept close guarded by helpless males thinking of the stigma and > social > > unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people still on > > everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of > > self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to develop one > > such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they did not > say > > I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After Homosexuality is > > legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for > > authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long as he > does > > not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who need > to > > think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice continues. > And > > social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry was > > always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant, > > It > > > continues................................................................................................................. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > To: sarai list > > Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you, > > according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that you > > can > > only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but > with > > no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof > > before > > you resort to any more mud slinging. > > > > Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from > > multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the > more. > > You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by just > > abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. It is > > quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his shows > > overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I know > > briefly about. > > > > You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just like > > that. > > Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those media > > people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the so > > called SECULAR Media. > > > > I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point further. > Grow > > up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on internet > > alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than my > > words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't > > remain > > in the four walls of ignorance. > > > > I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to disagree. > You > > shouldn't force your opinion on others. > > > > 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. > > > > love > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, this > > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his followers > > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > > > television.. > > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being cured by > > > that > > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out > > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev eating on > > air > > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in tribal > > areas > > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the > villagers > > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be > > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of indian > > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class > Hindu > > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a > > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from > Hindu > > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even more > > > (says a latest TOI report) . > > > > > > -with warmest regards > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some > day. > > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev > hasn't > > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. > > Spreading > > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It > > qualifies > > > > you > > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > > > > disability > > > > openly on sarai today. > > > > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of > > followers > > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may > > continue > > > to > > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure > how > > > rich > > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of > > money. > > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > > > > > Love > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I > think > > > you > > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with three > > > wives, > > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was > > > > described > > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse > habits. > > i > > > > am > > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko > baba, > > > > which > > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it > > with > > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who has > > > > reached > > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your > ideas > > of > > > > > yoga > > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this ramdev > > and > > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger indian > > > > society. > > > > > > > > > > -regards > > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi > or > > a > > > > > > father. > > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes to > > > this > > > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the common > > > > people > > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help > Hindus. > > It > > > > > helps > > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like Baba > > who > > > > say > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > > > > homosexuality > > > > > > is > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual > relations > > > in > > > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > > > > cure... > > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check > out > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > -- > Definitions belong to the > definers not to the defined. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:03:38 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:03:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions about a public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or argument to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that is an altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in understanding his following and the service he has been giving to millions worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in different global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing Yoga. It has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all you have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even if he charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? It is a very right step. Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is service to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust him. You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your health. Comparing him only makes your point weak. You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even confirming my opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic of you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there are serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not just all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't bring in a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few hundred people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every year. I respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. They are just like any other Human being. I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. Either you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are just ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the Supreme Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. Don't be sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another petition if you really feel about the issue. Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your arrogance more than the original issue. Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) love On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > Let me be very clear about this. You cite the social service done by this > Ramdev character. I agree he is doing a good job out of the shivirs, > precisely by making his moolah. and you know it very well with the kind > of money he charges from people. He has cured 1000s of people so has > several > doctors in the rural india who also get a steady stream of visitors. now > Ramdev wants to contest the Delhi High Court order on Section 377 which > decriminalises homosexuality in India. Ramdev is a healer, if i were to say > so it benefits him to put his message across to the people -- his audience > that homosexuality is a disease. By stating that homosexuality is a > disease, > now he will be making more money out of it just like several doctors and > pharmaceutical companies, computer virus protection softwares mint money in > the name of diseases and various ailment. contrary to your belief, > Ramdev has no other motive, not even for the cause of the larger indian > society, which is only around 60 % literate, but to mint money by 'curing' > the cases of homosexuality and turning them "straight" with his medicines. > obviously he wont be able to cheat his patients for a long time. since you > are citing Brinda and Co and their so-called campaign backed by > multinationals, it is the same tendency of this Ramdev fellow to mint money > by calling homosexuality a disease. > > i think you are not capable of arguing so you resort to name-calling and ad > hominem attacks. so you better work on it pal. on everyone here instead of > arguing your case. you havent been able to provide any kind of proof that > homosexuality is a disease. > > -anupam > > > On 7/11/09, Manak Matiyani wrote: > > > Dear All, > > As the debate on homosexuality in the indian media gets more and more > > ridiculous we all wait for the government to finally take a stand. > Although > > one hears now that the center would ask for an extension to file their > > reply > > to the supreme court. The heated public opinions makes it difficult for > > them > > to support the high court decision without losing the support of > religious > > leaders. > > > > Personally, I feel baba Ramdev seems to be against sex in general and > hopes > > to cure homosexuals well enough to produce children in dysfunctional, > > loveless families. The problem with current religious leaders is that > they > > want to brush the fact of sex and sexuality under the carpet, or in this > > case, into the closet as though finding joy in sex itself were the > disease. > > "Love your friends, love your parents, love many men, but there should be > > no > > sexual desire (vaasana) in that " says the Baba. And this call for a > > sexless > > life seems to find many followers as long as their own joys and acts are > > covered by the stamp of heterosexual marriage. Frankly, i've heard the > sex > > for procreation lectures for a long time and and i refuse to buy it. Last > > time i checked, condom's were not freely available in nature, yet the > > government distributes them and for good reason. Our ideas or sex, > > sexuality > > and love must all evolve with the time, as has baba Ramdev's yoga! > > > > I wonder how firmly the moral fabric of a society balancing on the thin > > string of lies and deception will hold. What good will the > criminalisation > > of homosexuality would achieve other than forcing a large section of the > > population back into a life of fear and unable to participate in the joys > > of > > loving and living freely. The self appointed custodians of social and > moral > > fabric should perhaps engage themselves with the many other wrongs of our > > society and leave the few rights alone. > > > > The one thing that is clear is that Ramdev's petition is scientifically > > ill > > founded and weak, but would go a long way riding on his popularity and > > public appeal. Today, in psychology it would be malpractice to say > > homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. Medical science has for > long > > cleared that doubt for all of us. The reading down of an archaic law was > > another positive step in the direction of a free and just society. The > > social stigma remains, but perhaps that too would gradually change. > > Religion > > and religious leaders can only guide the lives of their followers and not > > dictate legislation. > > > > My knowledge of yoga, indian scriptures and scientific basis for > > homosexuality is very limited, so i thought it wise to post an insightful > > article that i came across to add to this discussion. > > > > Here's Devdutt Pattanaik's response to the baba's tirade. > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/10/baba-ramdev-is-wrong-homosexuality-is-no-disease.htm > > > > Manak. > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > *Baba Ramdev is wrong, homosexuality is no disease* > > *Dr Devdutt Pattanaik* > > * > > * > > *July 10, 2009 > > Baba Ramdev calls homosexuality a disease. No textbook of psychiatry says > > so. The World Health Organisation does not say so. And no, not even the > > scriptures, certainly not the Yoga Sutra, says so. In all probability, > this > > is the Baba's personal opinion. He has a right to his opinion. But can a > > country's law be based on his opinion? > > > > The problem is that the Baba is a celebrity and in the times we live in, > > celebrities, especially those with a religious and cultural aura, are > seen > > as voices of authority. We must be careful about such opinions. The > > practice > > of using science to justify social prejudices is not something new. Baba > > Ramdev [Images< > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=baba%20ramdev> > > ], with his charm and benign smile, is doing what has been done before. > > > > I remember an old black and white film starring Nutan called Sujata where > a > > respected elder of the family explains the physiological reason for > > sustaining the practice of untouchability. 'They produce a lethal gas,' > he > > said referring to the Dalits. Because the gentleman had standing, his > > opinion mattered. Many people agreed with the learned family friend. Not > > the > > hero. Not us. > > > > In Hitler's [Images < > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=hitler> > > ] Germany [Images < > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=germany > > >], > > hundreds of scientists dressed in white coats earnestly believed and > > rationalised that Jews were a social pathology, a disease, a gangrene > that > > had to be wiped out to create a perfect, healthy society. This resulted > in > > the Holocaust. It disgusts us today. > > > > In South Africa > > [Images > > ], there were many scholars who went out of their way to publish articles > > to > > rationalise apartheid. They considered the non-White races to be > subhuman. > > An entire social structure was constructed based on this ideology. We > must > > be careful of such rhetoric. > > > > The term 'disease' presupposes a normal health condition. Modern medicine > > uses this term very cautiously -- the patient must be distressed by it, > or > > it must threaten a person's well-being, before it can be labelled > disease. > > Disease cannot be a term used by a community to brand and weed out people > > that it is uncomfortable with. An unpopular social group cannot be > labelled > > 'diseased' to justify extermination. > > > > In Sparta, children who were born with congenital abnormalities, say a > > cleft > > lip and a malformed limb, were immediately killed. In the Mahabharata [ > > Images ], a > > blind man was not allowed to be king. In Australia > > [Images > > ], well meaning ladies funded a project to forcibly take children from > > Aboriginal homes to prevent abnormal/diseased parenting and give them > away > > in adoption to white parents. Would we do that today? > > > > Significantly, even the term 'supernatural' presupposes a normal state of > > being. So a being with three heads in one culture would be seen as > > 'deformed' in another; he would be seen as 'supernatural' -- a demon for > > one, a god for another. How shall we classify deities with three heads > and > > four arms? By whose gaze? By whose lens? By whose measuring scale? Ten > > thousand years ago, when food was scarce, a fat woman was worshipped as a > > goddess. Today, we consider her obese and psychologically torment her > till > > she diets, exercises and sheds fat. Is that fair? > > > > Logic and science and authority can be used to justify anything. But > > ultimately we have to ask -- what is our goalpost? Imagine your daughter > is > > getting married to a nice young man who has homosexual feelings. Until a > > few > > weeks ago, he never told the world about it for fear of being branded a > > criminal. > > > > Now, no thanks to the Baba, he feels he is mad. He does not think so. He > > does not feel so. But he is afraid to tell the world the truth of his > > desires. So he has firmly entrenched himself in the closet. > > > > He will tell no one, certainly not his mother, or father, or brother, > that > > he has had sex with men. Not one or two, but dozens, secretly, silently, > > furtive experiences, with men who like him are afraid to disclose their > > preferences in public lest they be labelled criminals or diseased. > > > > He will marry your daughter. And your daughter will wonder why, in the > > privacy of the bedroom, this nice man shuns any attempt to be being > > intimate. Is she the problem? Her self worth will suffer. The marriage > will > > suffer. Children will be conceived in loveless unions. The man will find > it > > difficult to be faithful and seek comfort elsewhere. And your daughter > will > > wonder what is wrong. > > > > The secret will never be revealed. Everyone in this patriarchal society > > will > > blame the daughter. A sham of a marriage -- only because of a law, an > > intolerant society and Baba's authoritative opinion. > > > > Homosexuality is natural -- it has been documented in animal species. > > Homosexual feelings are not a choice -- they exist in every human > society. > > Why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? No one really knows the > > answer. It is like asking, why do humans experience orgasm? Orgasm does > not > > play any role in procreation. Why does it exist (and it is found only in > > the > > human species and a few primates)? We can only speculate but we will > never > > know. > > > > The question is -- what are we as a civil human society doing about it? > Do > > we call orgasm -- unnatural or miraculous, God's gift to humanity? What > > behaviour do we propose? Should we act on homosexual feelings or suppress > > them, stay celibate and serve society, as the good Baba suggests? Is > > celibacy a 'good' thing? > > > > In the Mahabharata, sages like Agastya, Kardama and Jaratkaru are reviled > > by > > their ancestors for being celibate. 'Repay your debt to your ancestors,' > > they demanded and forced the rishis to marry and produce children. This > > desire for children stretched to a point where if one was sterile, as in > > case of Pandu, one was expected to send one's wife to a stranger to get > > impregnated by him. > > > > Rishis had to have sex to produce children -- but were expected to be > > disciplined enough not to get pleasure out of it, to have sex without > > orgasm, for procreation, nothing else. > > > > What about the wives of the rishis, one may ask. In one conversation with > > Urvashi, female sexual desire itself is described as a disease to be > > curtailed with fidelity and marriage. The epic refers to a time when > women > > were free to express their desires followed by a time when they were > > restrained by laws of fidelity and chastity. Clearly, definition of what > > constitutes normal changed over time. > > > > The changes continued with the rise of monastic orders like Buddhism > (which > > incidentally popularised the saffron colour). Suddenly monasticism became > > superior social behaviour. It is so even today, not just in Buddhism but > > also in Jainism, in Roman Catholicism, and, thanks to the Shankaracharya, > > even in Hinduism. > > > > While Sufi mystics chose to be celibate, ask a traditional Muslim cleric > if > > celibacy is acceptable social behaviour. In all probability he will say > no. > > He will insist on marriage and children and a householder's life. So much > > for celebration of celibacy. > > > > What is normal and what is healthy is based on a measuring scale. > Different > > people have different measuring scales. Notions of what is normal and > what > > is not, what is physiological and what is pathological, change with time > > and > > place. > > > > In this ever fluid world, how does one separate acceptable social conduct > > from what is unacceptable? Society, after all, is not a jungle. > > > > A civil society exists to include people to enable them to live lives to > > their full potential. The underlying principle is empathy. I am sure the > > Baba has empathy. But he also has a measuring scale by which he considers > > same sex desires a disease. > > > > One can show him findings from the animal kingdom, one can show him > > psychiatric text books, one can show him scriptural evidence of inter-sex > > states -- but he will dismiss it all as 'Western'. His measuring scale > does > > not include everyone. > > > > The Baba will say yoga considers homosexuality a disease. People will > > believe him. The media will quote him. And it will become about yoga and > > Western science. But strangely, the notion of disease does not exist in > > yoga. In yoga, all discussions are about creating harmony. And what is > > harmonious depends on the environment and goal -- thus, what is good in > one > > situation for one purpose may not be so in another. Thus, the approach to > > ailment is very different form Western science. > > > > Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra defines yoga as 'chitta vriddhi nirodha' -- > the > > uncrumpling of the crumpled mind. The goal post of yoga is to realise > > divinity (some would say one's true self) by overpowering prejudice > through > > increased awareness. I suspect, despite all the asanas and the > pranayamas, > > the great yoga master has still some prejudices to uncrumple. > > > > Dr Devdutt Pattanaik www.devdutt.com) is a medical doctor by training > and > > a > > mythologist by passion. After working in the pharma industry for over 14 > > years, he is now Chief Belief Officer at the Future Group. A renowned > > speaker and columnist, he has written over a dozen books on the relevance > > of > > sacred stories, symbols and rituals in modern times > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, subhrodip sengupta < > > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > > > > Dear ALL, > > > Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different perceptions > > of > > > reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured. > Hostel > > > life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have co-educational > > > hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a result > of > > > selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to himself > is > > not > > > hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and force > > them > > > into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in such a > > > society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why do > we > > > carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not > > > homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and > increases > > > the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which > > itself > > > shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against > homosexuals. > > We > > > need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in > every > > > society, > > > of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such > iron > > > actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in swines, > > man > > > must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a check by > > > LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted humans > to > > > behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to most > > > prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have > taken > > > too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word > 'Quack'. > > It > > > is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off > course, > > for > > > reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem mordern, > free > > of > > > some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male sexual > > abuse > > > is kept close guarded by helpless males thinking of the stigma and > > social > > > unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people still on > > > everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of > > > self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to develop > one > > > such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they did > not > > say > > > I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After Homosexuality > is > > > legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for > > > authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long as he > > does > > > not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who > need > > to > > > think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice continues. > > And > > > social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry was > > > always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant, > > > It > > > > > > continues................................................................................................................. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > > To: sarai list > > > Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you, > > > according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that > you > > > can > > > only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but > > with > > > no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof > > > before > > > you resort to any more mud slinging. > > > > > > Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from > > > multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the > > more. > > > You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by > just > > > abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. It > is > > > quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his > shows > > > overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I > know > > > briefly about. > > > > > > You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just like > > > that. > > > Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those media > > > people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the so > > > called SECULAR Media. > > > > > > I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point further. > > Grow > > > up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on > internet > > > alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than my > > > words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't > > > remain > > > in the four walls of ignorance. > > > > > > I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to disagree. > > You > > > shouldn't force your opinion on others. > > > > > > 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. > > > > > > love > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, > this > > > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his > followers > > > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > > > > television.. > > > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being cured > by > > > > that > > > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out > > > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev eating > on > > > air > > > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in tribal > > > areas > > > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the > > villagers > > > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be > > > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of indian > > > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class > > Hindu > > > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a > > > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > > > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > > > > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from > > Hindu > > > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even > more > > > > (says a latest TOI report) . > > > > > > > > -with warmest regards > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon some > > day. > > > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev > > hasn't > > > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. > > > Spreading > > > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It > > > qualifies > > > > > you > > > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > > > > > disability > > > > > openly on sarai today. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of > > > followers > > > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may > > > continue > > > > to > > > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for sure > > how > > > > rich > > > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game of > > > money. > > > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > Love > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I > > think > > > > you > > > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with > three > > > > wives, > > > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this was > > > > > described > > > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse > > habits. > > > i > > > > > am > > > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko > > baba, > > > > > which > > > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about it > > > with > > > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who > has > > > > > reached > > > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your > > ideas > > > of > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this > ramdev > > > and > > > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger > indian > > > > > society. > > > > > > > > > > > > -regards > > > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, Maulvi > > or > > > a > > > > > > > father. > > > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their eyes > to > > > > this > > > > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the > common > > > > > people > > > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help > > Hindus. > > > It > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite < > dnyan21 at yahoo.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like > Baba > > > who > > > > > say > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > > > > > homosexuality > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual > > relations > > > > in > > > > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has > a > > > > > cure... > > > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do so > > > > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been decided > > > > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to take > > > > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. That > > > > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check > > out > > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Definitions belong to the > > definers not to the defined. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:19:29 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:19:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100331s3d9070e5o454911d10f833c19@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising Baba Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you have managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How much does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to spread Ramdev's message? And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a guy who had filed an application in the supreme court against decriminalisation of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba Ramdev as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this reader's list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks on people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i request his/her intervention on this issue. -anupam On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions about > a > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or argument > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that is an > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to millions > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in > different > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing Yoga. > It > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all you > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even if he > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? It > is > a very right step. > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is service > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust him. > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your > health. > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even confirming my > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic of > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there are > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not just > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't bring > in > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few hundred > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every year. I > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. They > are just like any other Human being. > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. Either > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are just > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the Supreme > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. Don't be > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another petition if > you really feel about the issue. > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your > arrogance more than the original issue. > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > love > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > Let me be very clear about this. You cite the social service done by this > > Ramdev character. I agree he is doing a good job out of the shivirs, > > precisely by making his moolah. and you know it very well with the kind > > of money he charges from people. He has cured 1000s of people so has > > several > > doctors in the rural india who also get a steady stream of visitors. now > > Ramdev wants to contest the Delhi High Court order on Section 377 which > > decriminalises homosexuality in India. Ramdev is a healer, if i were to > say > > so it benefits him to put his message across to the people -- his > audience > > that homosexuality is a disease. By stating that homosexuality is a > > disease, > > now he will be making more money out of it just like several doctors and > > pharmaceutical companies, computer virus protection softwares mint money > in > > the name of diseases and various ailment. contrary to your belief, > > Ramdev has no other motive, not even for the cause of the larger indian > > society, which is only around 60 % literate, but to mint money by > 'curing' > > the cases of homosexuality and turning them "straight" with his > medicines. > > obviously he wont be able to cheat his patients for a long time. since > you > > are citing Brinda and Co and their so-called campaign backed by > > multinationals, it is the same tendency of this Ramdev fellow to mint > money > > by calling homosexuality a disease. > > > > i think you are not capable of arguing so you resort to name-calling and > ad > > hominem attacks. so you better work on it pal. on everyone here instead > of > > arguing your case. you havent been able to provide any kind of proof that > > homosexuality is a disease. > > > > -anupam > > > > > > On 7/11/09, Manak Matiyani wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > > As the debate on homosexuality in the indian media gets more and more > > > ridiculous we all wait for the government to finally take a stand. > > Although > > > one hears now that the center would ask for an extension to file their > > > reply > > > to the supreme court. The heated public opinions makes it difficult for > > > them > > > to support the high court decision without losing the support of > > religious > > > leaders. > > > > > > Personally, I feel baba Ramdev seems to be against sex in general and > > hopes > > > to cure homosexuals well enough to produce children in dysfunctional, > > > loveless families. The problem with current religious leaders is that > > they > > > want to brush the fact of sex and sexuality under the carpet, or in > this > > > case, into the closet as though finding joy in sex itself were the > > disease. > > > "Love your friends, love your parents, love many men, but there should > be > > > no > > > sexual desire (vaasana) in that " says the Baba. And this call for a > > > sexless > > > life seems to find many followers as long as their own joys and acts > are > > > covered by the stamp of heterosexual marriage. Frankly, i've heard the > > sex > > > for procreation lectures for a long time and and i refuse to buy it. > Last > > > time i checked, condom's were not freely available in nature, yet the > > > government distributes them and for good reason. Our ideas or sex, > > > sexuality > > > and love must all evolve with the time, as has baba Ramdev's yoga! > > > > > > I wonder how firmly the moral fabric of a society balancing on the thin > > > string of lies and deception will hold. What good will the > > criminalisation > > > of homosexuality would achieve other than forcing a large section of > the > > > population back into a life of fear and unable to participate in the > joys > > > of > > > loving and living freely. The self appointed custodians of social and > > moral > > > fabric should perhaps engage themselves with the many other wrongs of > our > > > society and leave the few rights alone. > > > > > > The one thing that is clear is that Ramdev's petition is > scientifically > > > ill > > > founded and weak, but would go a long way riding on his popularity and > > > public appeal. Today, in psychology it would be malpractice to say > > > homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. Medical science has for > > long > > > cleared that doubt for all of us. The reading down of an archaic law > was > > > another positive step in the direction of a free and just society. The > > > social stigma remains, but perhaps that too would gradually change. > > > Religion > > > and religious leaders can only guide the lives of their followers and > not > > > dictate legislation. > > > > > > My knowledge of yoga, indian scriptures and scientific basis for > > > homosexuality is very limited, so i thought it wise to post an > insightful > > > article that i came across to add to this discussion. > > > > > > Here's Devdutt Pattanaik's response to the baba's tirade. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/10/baba-ramdev-is-wrong-homosexuality-is-no-disease.htm > > > > > > Manak. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > *Baba Ramdev is wrong, homosexuality is no disease* > > > *Dr Devdutt Pattanaik* > > > * > > > * > > > *July 10, 2009 > > > Baba Ramdev calls homosexuality a disease. No textbook of psychiatry > says > > > so. The World Health Organisation does not say so. And no, not even the > > > scriptures, certainly not the Yoga Sutra, says so. In all probability, > > this > > > is the Baba's personal opinion. He has a right to his opinion. But can > a > > > country's law be based on his opinion? > > > > > > The problem is that the Baba is a celebrity and in the times we live > in, > > > celebrities, especially those with a religious and cultural aura, are > > seen > > > as voices of authority. We must be careful about such opinions. The > > > practice > > > of using science to justify social prejudices is not something new. > Baba > > > Ramdev [Images< > > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=baba%20ramdev> > > > ], with his charm and benign smile, is doing what has been done before. > > > > > > I remember an old black and white film starring Nutan called Sujata > where > > a > > > respected elder of the family explains the physiological reason for > > > sustaining the practice of untouchability. 'They produce a lethal gas,' > > he > > > said referring to the Dalits. Because the gentleman had standing, his > > > opinion mattered. Many people agreed with the learned family friend. > Not > > > the > > > hero. Not us. > > > > > > In Hitler's [Images < > > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=hitler> > > > ] Germany [Images < > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=germany > > > >], > > > hundreds of scientists dressed in white coats earnestly believed and > > > rationalised that Jews were a social pathology, a disease, a gangrene > > that > > > had to be wiped out to create a perfect, healthy society. This resulted > > in > > > the Holocaust. It disgusts us today. > > > > > > In South Africa > > > [Images > > > > ], there were many scholars who went out of their way to publish > articles > > > to > > > rationalise apartheid. They considered the non-White races to be > > subhuman. > > > An entire social structure was constructed based on this ideology. We > > must > > > be careful of such rhetoric. > > > > > > The term 'disease' presupposes a normal health condition. Modern > medicine > > > uses this term very cautiously -- the patient must be distressed by it, > > or > > > it must threaten a person's well-being, before it can be labelled > > disease. > > > Disease cannot be a term used by a community to brand and weed out > people > > > that it is uncomfortable with. An unpopular social group cannot be > > labelled > > > 'diseased' to justify extermination. > > > > > > In Sparta, children who were born with congenital abnormalities, say a > > > cleft > > > lip and a malformed limb, were immediately killed. In the Mahabharata [ > > > Images ], > a > > > blind man was not allowed to be king. In Australia > > > [Images > > > ], well meaning ladies funded a project to forcibly take children from > > > Aboriginal homes to prevent abnormal/diseased parenting and give them > > away > > > in adoption to white parents. Would we do that today? > > > > > > Significantly, even the term 'supernatural' presupposes a normal state > of > > > being. So a being with three heads in one culture would be seen as > > > 'deformed' in another; he would be seen as 'supernatural' -- a demon > for > > > one, a god for another. How shall we classify deities with three heads > > and > > > four arms? By whose gaze? By whose lens? By whose measuring scale? Ten > > > thousand years ago, when food was scarce, a fat woman was worshipped as > a > > > goddess. Today, we consider her obese and psychologically torment her > > till > > > she diets, exercises and sheds fat. Is that fair? > > > > > > Logic and science and authority can be used to justify anything. But > > > ultimately we have to ask -- what is our goalpost? Imagine your > daughter > > is > > > getting married to a nice young man who has homosexual feelings. Until > a > > > few > > > weeks ago, he never told the world about it for fear of being branded a > > > criminal. > > > > > > Now, no thanks to the Baba, he feels he is mad. He does not think so. > He > > > does not feel so. But he is afraid to tell the world the truth of his > > > desires. So he has firmly entrenched himself in the closet. > > > > > > He will tell no one, certainly not his mother, or father, or brother, > > that > > > he has had sex with men. Not one or two, but dozens, secretly, > silently, > > > furtive experiences, with men who like him are afraid to disclose their > > > preferences in public lest they be labelled criminals or diseased. > > > > > > He will marry your daughter. And your daughter will wonder why, in the > > > privacy of the bedroom, this nice man shuns any attempt to be being > > > intimate. Is she the problem? Her self worth will suffer. The marriage > > will > > > suffer. Children will be conceived in loveless unions. The man will > find > > it > > > difficult to be faithful and seek comfort elsewhere. And your daughter > > will > > > wonder what is wrong. > > > > > > The secret will never be revealed. Everyone in this patriarchal society > > > will > > > blame the daughter. A sham of a marriage -- only because of a law, an > > > intolerant society and Baba's authoritative opinion. > > > > > > Homosexuality is natural -- it has been documented in animal species. > > > Homosexual feelings are not a choice -- they exist in every human > > society. > > > Why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? No one really knows the > > > answer. It is like asking, why do humans experience orgasm? Orgasm does > > not > > > play any role in procreation. Why does it exist (and it is found only > in > > > the > > > human species and a few primates)? We can only speculate but we will > > never > > > know. > > > > > > The question is -- what are we as a civil human society doing about it? > > Do > > > we call orgasm -- unnatural or miraculous, God's gift to humanity? What > > > behaviour do we propose? Should we act on homosexual feelings or > suppress > > > them, stay celibate and serve society, as the good Baba suggests? Is > > > celibacy a 'good' thing? > > > > > > In the Mahabharata, sages like Agastya, Kardama and Jaratkaru are > reviled > > > by > > > their ancestors for being celibate. 'Repay your debt to your > ancestors,' > > > they demanded and forced the rishis to marry and produce children. This > > > desire for children stretched to a point where if one was sterile, as > in > > > case of Pandu, one was expected to send one's wife to a stranger to get > > > impregnated by him. > > > > > > Rishis had to have sex to produce children -- but were expected to be > > > disciplined enough not to get pleasure out of it, to have sex without > > > orgasm, for procreation, nothing else. > > > > > > What about the wives of the rishis, one may ask. In one conversation > with > > > Urvashi, female sexual desire itself is described as a disease to be > > > curtailed with fidelity and marriage. The epic refers to a time when > > women > > > were free to express their desires followed by a time when they were > > > restrained by laws of fidelity and chastity. Clearly, definition of > what > > > constitutes normal changed over time. > > > > > > The changes continued with the rise of monastic orders like Buddhism > > (which > > > incidentally popularised the saffron colour). Suddenly monasticism > became > > > superior social behaviour. It is so even today, not just in Buddhism > but > > > also in Jainism, in Roman Catholicism, and, thanks to the > Shankaracharya, > > > even in Hinduism. > > > > > > While Sufi mystics chose to be celibate, ask a traditional Muslim > cleric > > if > > > celibacy is acceptable social behaviour. In all probability he will say > > no. > > > He will insist on marriage and children and a householder's life. So > much > > > for celebration of celibacy. > > > > > > What is normal and what is healthy is based on a measuring scale. > > Different > > > people have different measuring scales. Notions of what is normal and > > what > > > is not, what is physiological and what is pathological, change with > time > > > and > > > place. > > > > > > In this ever fluid world, how does one separate acceptable social > conduct > > > from what is unacceptable? Society, after all, is not a jungle. > > > > > > A civil society exists to include people to enable them to live lives > to > > > their full potential. The underlying principle is empathy. I am sure > the > > > Baba has empathy. But he also has a measuring scale by which he > considers > > > same sex desires a disease. > > > > > > One can show him findings from the animal kingdom, one can show him > > > psychiatric text books, one can show him scriptural evidence of > inter-sex > > > states -- but he will dismiss it all as 'Western'. His measuring scale > > does > > > not include everyone. > > > > > > The Baba will say yoga considers homosexuality a disease. People will > > > believe him. The media will quote him. And it will become about yoga > and > > > Western science. But strangely, the notion of disease does not exist in > > > yoga. In yoga, all discussions are about creating harmony. And what is > > > harmonious depends on the environment and goal -- thus, what is good in > > one > > > situation for one purpose may not be so in another. Thus, the approach > to > > > ailment is very different form Western science. > > > > > > Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra defines yoga as 'chitta vriddhi nirodha' -- > > the > > > uncrumpling of the crumpled mind. The goal post of yoga is to realise > > > divinity (some would say one's true self) by overpowering prejudice > > through > > > increased awareness. I suspect, despite all the asanas and the > > pranayamas, > > > the great yoga master has still some prejudices to uncrumple. > > > > > > Dr Devdutt Pattanaik www.devdutt.com) is a medical doctor by training > > and > > > a > > > mythologist by passion. After working in the pharma industry for over > 14 > > > years, he is now Chief Belief Officer at the Future Group. A renowned > > > speaker and columnist, he has written over a dozen books on the > relevance > > > of > > > sacred stories, symbols and rituals in modern times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, subhrodip sengupta < > > > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear ALL, > > > > Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different > perceptions > > > of > > > > reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured. > > Hostel > > > > life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have co-educational > > > > hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a > result > > of > > > > selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to himself > > is > > > not > > > > hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and > force > > > them > > > > into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in such > a > > > > society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why do > > we > > > > carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not > > > > homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and > > increases > > > > the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which > > > itself > > > > shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against > > homosexuals. > > > We > > > > need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in > > every > > > > society, > > > > of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such > > iron > > > > actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in > swines, > > > man > > > > must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a check > by > > > > LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted > humans > > to > > > > behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to > most > > > > prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have > > taken > > > > too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word > > 'Quack'. > > > It > > > > is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off > > course, > > > for > > > > reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem mordern, > > free > > > of > > > > some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male sexual > > > abuse > > > > is kept close guarded by helpless males thinking of the stigma and > > > social > > > > unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people > still on > > > > everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of > > > > self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to develop > > one > > > > such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they did > > not > > > say > > > > I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After > Homosexuality > > is > > > > legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for > > > > authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long as > he > > > does > > > > not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who > > need > > > to > > > > think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice > continues. > > > And > > > > social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry > was > > > > always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant, > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > continues................................................................................................................. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > To: sarai list > > > > Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you, > > > > according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that > > you > > > > can > > > > only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but > > > with > > > > no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof > > > > before > > > > you resort to any more mud slinging. > > > > > > > > Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from > > > > multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the > > > more. > > > > You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by > > just > > > > abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. > It > > is > > > > quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his > > shows > > > > overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I > > know > > > > briefly about. > > > > > > > > You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just > like > > > > that. > > > > Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those > media > > > > people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the > so > > > > called SECULAR Media. > > > > > > > > I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point > further. > > > Grow > > > > up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on > > internet > > > > alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than > my > > > > words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't > > > > remain > > > > in the four walls of ignorance. > > > > > > > > I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to > disagree. > > > You > > > > shouldn't force your opinion on others. > > > > > > > > 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. > > > > > > > > love > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second, > > this > > > > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his > > followers > > > > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > > > > > television.. > > > > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being > cured > > by > > > > > that > > > > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out > > > > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev > eating > > on > > > > air > > > > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in > tribal > > > > areas > > > > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the > > > villagers > > > > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be > > > > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of > indian > > > > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class > > > Hindu > > > > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a > > > > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > > > > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > > > > > > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from > > > Hindu > > > > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even > > more > > > > > (says a latest TOI report) . > > > > > > > > > > -with warmest regards > > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon > some > > > day. > > > > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev > > > hasn't > > > > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. > > > > Spreading > > > > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It > > > > qualifies > > > > > > you > > > > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your > > > > > > disability > > > > > > openly on sarai today. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of > > > > followers > > > > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may > > > > continue > > > > > to > > > > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for > sure > > > how > > > > > rich > > > > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game > of > > > > money. > > > > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Love > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I > > > think > > > > > you > > > > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with > > three > > > > > wives, > > > > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this > was > > > > > > described > > > > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse > > > habits. > > > > i > > > > > > am > > > > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko > > > baba, > > > > > > which > > > > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about > it > > > > with > > > > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who > > has > > > > > > reached > > > > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your > > > ideas > > > > of > > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this > > ramdev > > > > and > > > > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger > > indian > > > > > > society. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -regards > > > > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, > Maulvi > > > or > > > > a > > > > > > > > father. > > > > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their > eyes > > to > > > > > this > > > > > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the > > common > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help > > > Hindus. > > > > It > > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite < > > dnyan21 at yahoo.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like > > Baba > > > > who > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying > > > > > > > homosexuality > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual > > > relations > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga > has > > a > > > > > > cure... > > > > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their > > > > > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do > so > > > > > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that > > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been > decided > > > > > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to > take > > > > > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and > > > > > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a > > > > > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. > That > > > > > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: < > > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. > Check > > > out > > > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Definitions belong to the > > > definers not to the defined. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:33:07 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:33:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] global warming Message-ID: <564b2fca0907110103p355cd5d5g9388bd05e69d1707@mail.gmail.com> The Politics of Global Warming: Can We Avoid 2 degrees? ‹ Nagraj Adve The Earth¹s oceans, forests, grasslands and other landmass can currently absorb roughly 14-16 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide, an amount that is slowly declining each year. About 36-37 billion tonnes (Gt) were emitted into the atmosphere in 2006, the last year for which reliable worldwide data is available. Of this, according to the official US¹ Energy Information Administration, 29 Gt was emitted by the burning of coal, oil and other fossil fuels. Another 7-8 Gt was added due to deforestation and land use changes. Hence about 20 billion excess tonnes of carbon dioxide remains unabsorbed each year, adding to the CO2 concentration in the Earth¹s atmosphere, which currently stands at 387 parts per million (ppm). These higher concentration levels of CO2, and also of methane, nitrous oxide and other greenhouse gases have warmed the Earth by an average of 0.8 degrees celsius since the Industrial Revolution. And because there is a lag between CO2 emissions and warming, a further 0.6 degrees of warming is assured. That would take us, over time, to 1.4 degrees above pre-Industrial levels. Warming triggers feedbacks in the Earth¹s ecosystems, which contribute to further warming. Already observed feedbacks include reduced Arctic ice, release of methane from melting permafrost, decline in oceanic algae, emissions from warmer soils, and reduced absorption of CO2 in the Southern oceans. It is widely accepted that were the Earth¹s average temperature to cross roughly 2 degrees above pre-Industrial levels, it would likely trigger these feedbacks, simultaneously, to a scale that would undermine human capacity to control the process. Whether one can avoid reaching these dangerous levels of warming is one of the key questions that Jonathan Neale addresses in his book Stop Global Warming: Change the World. The best estimates, he says, suggest that 2 degrees will become unavoidable if CO2 levels reach 400-450 ppm. Neale talks not so much of dangerous levels of warming as much as "abrupt climate change", which others including James Hansen, the world¹s foremost climatologist, have warned about. To avoid this climate catastrophe, Neale suggests that sharp cuts are needed in per capita emissions in the industrialized world, by roughly 80 per cent to "between 1.7-1.3 tonnes per person", and urgently, in 10-30 years (pp. 24, 30, 159). I think the numbers are even more dire than Neale suggests; for one, he makes a mistake many do in omitting carbon emissions from deforestation in his calculations: they have been over 4 billion tonnes a year averaged over 1990-2005, and even more in recent years. That would make the target cuts he sets even more difficult to reach. What¹s more, recent writings by Hansen and others suggest that even 400 ppm may be too high, and to really be safe we should revert CO2 levels to 350 ppm, "but likely less than that" i.e. reduce it from current levels. There¹s a small but growing campaign demanding this. But this is not a book about the science of global warming. For an overview of the science, there have been few better than Fred Pearce¹s The Last Generation. Another superb, sometimes technical but generally accessible source is realclimate.org. Nor is this book about the impacts of global warming. For that, you would profit by visiting IPCC¹s website to read the massive second volume of its 2007 report though it¹s conservative in some aspects, or UNDP¹s Human Development Report 2007-08. Neale¹s book is essentially about the politics of global warming ‹ about the climate justice movement, its links with the anti-war and other mass movements, about climate politics in the 1990s, the Kyoto Protocol and subsequent negotiations, the resistance of corporations and other powerful elites to change, and the linkages between all these. One of his main arguments is that the drastic cuts needed urgently to avoid abrupt climate change are feasible, using existing technologies. Focusing on individual consumption, though useful to generate debate, is simply not worthwhile and would prove inadequate. We need huge public works, and massive government intervention and regulation, globally. However, since there are powerful vested interests ‹ of the ten largest companies in the world in 2007, six were oil companies and three, car companies ‹ preventing the kind of intervention necessary, a vibrant mass movement is needed to push these changes through, either by forcing current elites to act or replacing them by those who will. The book is divided into five sections, Following a brief presentation of relevant aspects of the science, the sections that follow discuss technological solutions and policy measures that could work now (and some that won¹t); why the rich and powerful won¹t act; climate politics in the 1990s and after 2001; and alternative futures, a penultimate chapter that discusses the horrors of global warming impacts in New Orleans and in the Sahel, a world of "refugees, famine, war and suffering [that] awaits us if we do not act", and a final chapter that brings the various threads of his argument together urging the necessity of a radical climate justice movement to overcome the many hurdles facing it. It¹s all too possible, he says at the end, that elites stall long enough and abrupt climate change will overwhelm us. It¹s also possible that ordinary people take control of their societies and economies in a revolutionary overturning of corporate power. It¹s not the most likely outcome but it is possible and "it would save the planet" (pp. 255-256). A short review can scarcely do justice to the numerous themes and ideas this book touches upon. It¹s striking how varied the issues are Neale discusses, and with a remarkable lucidity, borne of his engaging publicly with these issues for years and also of his being an activist in many movements since the 1960s. I¹d urge his book be read not just by those involved with the climate justice movement in India, but also by activists in other movements, and readers at large. A crucial section of the book ­ given the urgency and scale of the problem at hand ­ is the one that deals with ŒSolutions That Could Work Now¹. It discusses cutting emissions via the transformation of electricity generation by massive deployment of wind power, concentrated solar power and PV cells. Britain, he argues, could have five million solar roofs in five years. Other, sunnier places including India could deploy concentrated solar power, and transport the electricity generated through long-range high voltage DC cables, such as the 1,700 km long DC cable in operation in Africa. Separate chapters then deal with cutting energy use in buildings, transportation and industry. Reading these portions reminds one of George Monbiot¹s Heat: How to Stop a Planet Burning, which also presents various technological solutions in largely a First World context. In discussing emissions from cement, oil refineries and steel industries, Neale¹s frame is wider than Monbiot¹s, and its politics considerably wider. But neither of them discuss emissions from the Œdefence¹ industry worldwide, one huge source of direct and indirect emissions, possibly due to the lack of reliable data. There are a number of issues about technological solutions that Neale does not address adequately. One is the Jevons paradox, which shows that increased efficiency in using a resource results not in its reduced demand over time, but paradoxically in increased demand or an overall increase in energy consumption. Two, as John Bellamy Foster has repeatedly argued, "under capitalism, it is those energy sources that generate the most profit for capital Š that are promoted, not those that are beneficial to humanity and the Earth". Witness the alacrity with which Shell and other fossil fuel companies rushed in to mine the ecologically disastrous tar sands in Canada, and are currently withdrawing now that the price of oil has fallen to a third of its peak of US$ 147 a barrel a year ago. Three, one was uncomfortable with his assertion, repeatedly made, that "climate change does not have to mean sacrifice for ordinary people". Even if one assumes that technological advancement prevents dangerous climate change, what of the other ecological and livelihood crises thrust inordinately upon the poor and non-human species because of direct and embodied consumption by elites everywhere ‹ the loss of community and livelihood from mining, soil degradation, the increasing lack of access to safe water, the loss of species which some call the sixth mass extinction in history, the oceanic crisis and food security, the generation and export of toxic wastes, etc? And which ordinary people is he referring to? If one were to measure consumption, or indeed carbon emissions, on a world scale, the Œordinary people¹ of the First World Neale refers to would be placed easily at the higher end of the scale. Four, what matters if we are to avoid dangerous levels of warming is not merely technological change but the rate of change. Do we have the raw materials or indeed the capacity to carry out that massive task worldwide in the short time at hand? Drastically reducing the carbon intensity of the world¹s energy systems necessitates a rapid transformation of its economic infrastructure. It¹s moot whether decarbonization can proceed "faster than the rate of depreciation of long-lasting fixed assets". In short, what would one do with the coal powered stations that China has been building at a staggering rate, even as it galloped past the US as the chief emitter in the world? In fact, the rapid rise of China¹s CO2 emissions as manufacturing expanded ‹ from 3,050 million tonnes in 2001 to 5,322 mt in 2005, and over 6 billion tonnes in 2006 ‹ illustrates how centrally global warming is connected with the growth and spread of capitalism, precisely because of capitalism¹s deep-seated logic of opting for cheaper inputs, of energy (coal) and labour power. A more thorough discussion of the systemic nature of the problem would have resulted in a more realistic picture of the hurdles we face. Which brings us to another major theme Neale stresses in his book ‹ the importance of a mass movement, to enable not just the deployment of more benign technologies but also the growth of societies based on people¹s needs, not on profit (p. 259). The job can¹t be done by environmentalists alone; a "mass climate movement has to include and mobilise large numbers of working class people". I couldn¹t agree more. Such a movement would need to "persuade unions and workers that the fight against global warming is not about sacrifice but about jobs and a better world". There¹s no doubt that global warming (along with myriad ecological crises generated by capitalism) have brought to the front-burner questions of equity, enriched the sustainable development debate, exposed the limitations of an anthropocentric worldview, and has the capacity to link movements against displacement, mining, dams, war, and for equitable access to the commons. Global warming simply cannot be resolved under capitalism, and makes the struggle for socialism an even more pressing one. But if one key question is, can we avoid 2 degrees of warming, then we really need to ask ourselves whether the climate justice movement, can, arm in arm with other people¹s movements, grow in scale and then ensure the wide introduction of benign technologies, and enforce public policy changes that Neale talks about, along with the accompanying transformation in economic and social relations. In time. I doubt it. True, the movement against global warming has been growing by leaps and bounds in the last couple of years in the West. Increasingly visible impacts of climate change in India, such as on agriculture, will build the momentum of the fledgling movement here. There are also vibrant struggles against forced displacement from industrial projects, SEZs and dams, etc, which directly or indirectly relate to global warming. But let¹s face the fact that global warming as yet cuts no ice with most political parties and industrial unions in India, and, anecdotal evidence suggests, in China. Despite its impacts on agriculture for years ­ 15 years in his region, an activist and agriculturalist told me recently ‹ it has barely begun to register on the radar of large social forces. This may be because of the many other serious systemic crises facing the Indian underclasses, but also because there exists a fragmented view of development, industrialization and employment. A more nuanced analysis by Neale of the constraints movements face would have been useful. The book¹s frequent references to past successes such as for the welfare state, public drainage in the 19th century, etc, underestimates the scale of the problem ("somewhere between the French Revolution and the fight for the welfare state"), and the complexity of equity, which is at the heart of the matter. In fact, an increasing number of climate change scientists feels the Earth may have already tipped. There¹s also the view that "since there are already threshold changes in ecosystems and ocean acidification Š dangerous change is likely to appear before 2 degrees celsius". The RealClimate group recently wrote that given the extent of current impacts "after only 0.8 degrees of warming, calling 2 degrees C a danger limit seems to us pretty cavalier". But there¹s very little discussion in most Left writing about what the poor would face if and when we cross dangerous levels of warming. Public discussion on possible impacts beyond ‹ which Mark Lynas discusses in his grim book Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet ‹ would underline the urgency of global warming and perhaps help prepare for the crises. Doing too little, too late would be a matter of life and death for millions of the world¹s poor, and for innumerable other species on this planet. Book Review of Jonathan Neale, Stop Global Warming: Change the World, Bookmarks Publications, 2008, 287 pp, 11.99 pounds. Notes: James Hansen, et al. ŒClimate Change and Trace Gases¹, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A, 2007, 365, pp. 1925-54; James Hansen, ŒClimate Catastrophe¹, New Scientist, 28 July 2007, p. 33. 2 UNDP, Human Development Report 2007-08: Fighting Climate Change, 2007, Palgrave Macmillan, p. 69. 3 James Hansen, Makiko Sato, Pushker Kharecha, et al, ŒTarget Atmospheric CO2: Where Should Humanity Aim?¹, http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOASCJ/2008/00000002/00000001/ 217TOASCJ.SGM 4 John Bellamy Foster, Ecology Against Capitalism, Cornerstone Publications, 2003, p. 94-95. 5 John Bellamy Foster, ŒCapitalism¹s Environmental Crisis: Is Technology the Answer?", in Foster, Ecology Against Capitalism, p. 100. 6 Minqi Li, ŒClimate Change, Limits to Growth and the Imperative for Socialism¹ Monthly Review, July-August 2008, pp. 49-64. 7 Energy Information Administration (EIA). 2007. World Carbon Dioxide Emissions from the Consumption and Flaring of Fossil Fuels, 1980-2005. United States EIA website. 8 A good discussion of which can be found in P.K. Aggarwal, ŒGlobal Climate Change and Indian Agriculture¹, The Indian Journal of Agricultural Sciences, November 2008, pp. 911-919. 9 David Adam, "World Will Not Meet 2C Warming Target, Climate Change Experts Agree¹, Guardian, 14 April 2009. 10 Thomas Lovejoy, ŒClimate Change¹s Pressure on Biodiversity¹, in State of the World 2009, Worldwatch Institute, 2009, pp. 67-70. 11 ŒHit The Brakes Hard¹, www.realclimate.org, 29 April 2009. First published in the EPW, 27 June 2009 naga at bol.net.in From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:42:18 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:42:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter truth. Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article which you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious doubts over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was it mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an apologist Sir. I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if something is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, I can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my friend. I told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you some new ideas of your own. I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve anything. It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of whatever argument you have. NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. I PITY YOU. P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer from a complex. God please help my friend. Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) regardsAditya Raj Kaul On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising Baba > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you have > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How > much > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to spread > Ramdev's message? > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a guy > who had filed an application in the supreme court against decriminalisation > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba Ramdev > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this > reader's > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks on > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i > request his/her intervention on this issue. > > -anupam > > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions > about > > a > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or > argument > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that is > an > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to > millions > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in > > different > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing Yoga. > > It > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all > you > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even if > he > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? It > > is > > a very right step. > > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is > service > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust > him. > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your > > health. > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even confirming > my > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic of > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there are > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not > just > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't bring > > in > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few > hundred > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every year. > I > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. > They > > are just like any other Human being. > > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. > Either > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are > just > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the > Supreme > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. Don't > be > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another petition > if > > you really feel about the issue. > > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your > > arrogance more than the original issue. > > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > > > love > > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 14:04:28 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:04:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the brinda brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can exist without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say that section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions my friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to answer any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on harping about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess people like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity of that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take it seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of delhi? see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. take care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like ramdev to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and i will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been arrested, but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com -with best wishes anupam On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam > > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter truth. > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? > > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article which > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious > doubts > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was it > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? > > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an > apologist Sir. > > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if something > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, I > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my friend. > I > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you > some new ideas of your own. > > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. > > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. > > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve anything. > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of > whatever argument you have. > > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. > > I PITY YOU. > > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. > > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer > from > a complex. > > God please help my friend. > > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising Baba > > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you > have > > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How > > much > > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to spread > > Ramdev's message? > > > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a > guy > > who had filed an application in the supreme court against > decriminalisation > > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you > > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba > Ramdev > > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this > > reader's > > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks > on > > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i > > request his/her intervention on this issue. > > > > -anupam > > > > > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions > > about > > > a > > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or > > argument > > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that is > > an > > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to > > millions > > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in > > > different > > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing > Yoga. > > > It > > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all > > you > > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even > if > > he > > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? > It > > > is > > > a very right step. > > > > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is > > service > > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust > > him. > > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your > > > health. > > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > > > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even confirming > > my > > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is > > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic > of > > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > > > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very > > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there are > > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not > > just > > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't > bring > > > in > > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few > > hundred > > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every > year. > > I > > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. > > They > > > are just like any other Human being. > > > > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. > > Either > > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are > > just > > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > > > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the > > Supreme > > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. > Don't > > be > > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another > petition > > if > > > you really feel about the issue. > > > > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your > > > arrogance more than the original issue. > > > > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > > > > > love > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 14:05:33 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:05:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110135r6033c647rd45e51adb616acfc@mail.gmail.com> >From Rationalist International: Swami Ramdev expects a revenue of 40 million dollar this year. Selling India’s ancient, pre-scientific notion of health care and cure – repackaged as his very special brand – is good business. Thanks to his all-out marketing, Pranayama (ancient exercise in breath control) and ayurveda are big hits with the ever-growing and prospering Indian middle class. His daily early morning show has allegedly 20 million viewers. His 500 hospitals in the country are said to register 30,000 patients per day. His new headquarters in the “holy city” of Haridwar may soon be world’s largest center for yoga and ayurveda. Swami Ramdev’s breathing routine as such may be as harmless as useless. But it comes with the stunning claim to cure all kinds of illnesses including cancer and HIV/Aids. His brand of yoga, so runs his pseudo medical argument, increases the CD4 count – the number of cells attacking the HIV virus. Such baseless and irresponsible claims, luring a vast number of patients in need of medical treatment into a false sense of security, turn Swami Ramdev’s yoga ministry a disastrous venture. “Swami Ramdev is a dangerous man”, said Sanal Edamaruku in a press statement. ’It is high time that the authorities put a stop to his activities. Claiming such absurdities is against the law. The magical remedies act of 1954 was brought in to stop people such as Baba Ramdev from promoting dangerous ideas about curing cancer and the like. But the political class is running scared of him and of the backlash that his legal prosecution might unleash." Quoting Sanal Edamaruku, the following article appeared in *The Guardian*. TV swami offers a cure for all ills Yoga evangelist has millions in his thrall, but critics claim devotees are being duped Randeep Ramesh The Guardian, Saturday June 14 2008 At 5am beneath the Shivalik hills in northern India, Swami Ramdev sits cross-legged swaddled in saffron robes commanding the rapt attention of 500 devotees of his brand of yoga. The crowd is made up mostly of middle-class Indians, many suffering from chronic conditions for which traditional medicine has little to offer but comfort. Each "patient" has paid 7,000 to 40,000 rupees (£90 to £500) to be among the first to spend a week at the swami's newest venture: a village of 300 bungalows offering spiritual retreat in the shadow of eucalyptus trees. Swami Ramdev's pitch is that pranayama, the ancient Indian art of breath control, can cure a bewildering array of diseases. "Asthma, arthritis, sickle-cell anaemia, kidney problems, thyroid disease, hepatitis, slipped discs and it will unblock any fallopian tubes," he tells his audience in the yoga village, who line up to have their blood tested and receive herbal remedies. Although India has a long tradition of mystical gurus, Swami Ramdev represents a new phenomenon: the television yoga evangelist. Almost all his congregation have been drawn through his shows on India's Aastha channel. Every morning, the swami appears on television chanting prayers and explaining that ailments, physical and mental, can be treated by what looks like little more than sharp intakes of air and painful-looking body contortions. More than 20 million tune in each day in India alone. The television guru, who is also known as Baba Ramdev, is also available across the world - including Britain. He has just finished teaching on a yoga cruise from India to China, which even after attracting corporate sponsorship still charged disciples £1,000 a ticket. Last year he appeared in Westminster to give British politicians a chance to sample his yogic wisdom. Ludy Mantri, a housewife from Mauritius, has paid 40,000 rupees and travelled 4,000 miles to see "her swami" in the Haridwar yoga village in the hope he can help her find a cure for diabetes. "I have been on medicines every day for the last 12 years. The chanting of Om has an amazing effect and the words of Ramdev energise one through the day." Born into a farming family in north India he retains a common touch, making rustic jokes in chaste Hindi. The guru combines this with a gentle manner and a knack for public relations. The swami sells himself as a one-person health service. He says he only charges the wealthy and that the poor get his medicines for free. He has 500 hospitals in India serving more than 30,000 a day. It is no surprise that many sections of the Indian elite - including judges, ministers and Bollywood stars - have visited his camps. Such is his popularity that the Indian army incorporated Ramdev's techniques claiming it made for a "deadlier fighting force". Ramdev often speaks less of spiritualism and more of the need to develop his country through yoga, portraying himself as an Indian nationalist. He attacks multinational companies for seeking to drain India of profits. He calls Coke and Pepsi good only for "toilet cleaning". In a country where renunciation is seen as almost a divine virtue, Ramdev announces that he has long ago given up sex - because "it is not love". The adoration he inspires was seen in 2006 when Indian communists accused the guru of using human bones and animal parts in ayurvedic drugs produced by his pharmacy. His followers rioted and attacked the party headquarters. The Communist party backed down when it saw where public sympathy lay.In an interview with the Guardian, Ramdev said that the problem with communists was that they did not have "faith in spirituality and are philosophically against religion. My cures are clean but the communists have an agenda." There is little controversy about his basic assertions. He says that following his yoga teachings for 30 minutes a day, along with a vegetarian diet of raw or lightly boiled food and no alcohol or tobacco, clears clogged arteries, reduces blood sugar and lowers blood pressure. But the swami defended his more extravagant claims that yoga could cure terminal illnesses such as cancer. He also said he had evidence that breathing exercises could help Aids patients recover by enabling a rise in the number of cells that the HIV virus destroys. Ramdev has an explanation for his success with cancer - that yoga oxygenates the blood which kills the tumour. "Yoga is self-healing and self-realisation. I have many cases of cancer which I can provide where patients have recovered. We have cured blood, throat, ovarian, uterine and throat cancers with yoga." In the case of HIV, he says scientists "have not understood [it] properly". He says that "through yoga and lifestyle changes people increase their CD4 count [the cells the HIV virus attacks]. The truth seen for the first time does appear like a miracle." Such claims have angered many doctors. Mohammed Abbas, The president of the Indian Medical Association, said that although yoga is "good exercise, it cannot be used to make ridiculous claims about curing HIV or cancer. This is false hope for ill people." The swami says patients are tested and improvements measured by "independent" doctors. Asked whether he has run any tests to analyse treatment, he offers a ook of testimonies from disciples convinced they have been cured of cancer, cirrhosis and kidney failure. Some have called for the swami to be prosecuted for "peddling quackery of the highest order". "Claiming such absurdities is against the law," said Sanal Edamaruku of the Indian Rationalist Association. "The magical remedies act of 1954 was brought in to stop people such as Baba Ramdev from promoting dangerous ideas about curing cancer and the like. "The political class is running scared of this man and the backlash that such a prosecution might unleash." On 7/11/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > Dear Aditya, > > Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the brinda > brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can exist > without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say that > section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions my > friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to > continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive > whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to answer > any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on harping > about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess people > like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity of > that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take it > seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of delhi? > see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. take > care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like ramdev > to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and i > will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a > commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been arrested, > but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon > heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > > -with best wishes > > anupam > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> Dear Anupam >> >> You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter truth. >> Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. >> >> You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? >> >> I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article >> which >> you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious >> doubts >> over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the >> world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was it >> mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? >> >> I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an >> apologist Sir. >> >> I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if something >> is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. >> >> Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed >> yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, I >> can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my friend. >> I >> told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you >> some new ideas of your own. >> >> I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. >> >> Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called >> intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. >> >> This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve anything. >> It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of >> whatever argument you have. >> >> NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. >> >> I PITY YOU. >> >> P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. >> >> I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer >> from >> a complex. >> >> God please help my friend. >> >> Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) >> >> regardsAditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: >> >> > Dear Aditya, >> > >> > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising >> Baba >> > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you >> have >> > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How >> > much >> > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to spread >> > Ramdev's message? >> > >> > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a >> guy >> > who had filed an application in the supreme court against >> decriminalisation >> > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you >> > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba >> Ramdev >> > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this >> > reader's >> > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks >> on >> > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i >> > request his/her intervention on this issue. >> > >> > -anupam >> > >> > >> > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > > >> > > Dear Anupam >> > > >> > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions >> > about >> > > a >> > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or >> > argument >> > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that >> is >> > an >> > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in >> > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to >> > millions >> > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in >> > > different >> > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing >> Yoga. >> > > It >> > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all >> > you >> > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even >> if >> > he >> > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? >> It >> > > is >> > > a very right step. >> > > >> > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is >> > service >> > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust >> > him. >> > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your >> > > health. >> > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. >> > > >> > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even >> confirming >> > my >> > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is >> > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic >> of >> > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? >> > > >> > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very >> > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there >> are >> > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not >> > just >> > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't >> bring >> > > in >> > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few >> > hundred >> > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every >> year. >> > I >> > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. >> > They >> > > are just like any other Human being. >> > > >> > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. >> > Either >> > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are >> > just >> > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. >> > > >> > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the >> > Supreme >> > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. >> Don't >> > be >> > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another >> petition >> > if >> > > you really feel about the issue. >> > > >> > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your >> > > arrogance more than the original issue. >> > > >> > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) >> > > >> > > love >> > > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 14:09:33 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:09:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110135r6033c647rd45e51adb616acfc@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110135r6033c647rd45e51adb616acfc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110139w41f0b559kb11cfe20db875cc5@mail.gmail.com> *TO COUNTER THIS BABA MENACE:* DRUGS AND MAGIC REMEDIES (OBJECTIONABLE ADVERTISEMENTS) ACT 1954 THE DRUGS AND MAGIC REMEDIES (OBJECTIONABLE ADVERTISEMENTS) ACT, 1954 ACT NO. 21 OF 1954 1* [30th April, 1954.] An Act to control the advertisement of drugs in certain cases, to prohibit the advertisement for certain purposes of remedies alleged to possess magic qualities and to provide for matters connected therewith. BE it enacted by Parliament as follows:- Short title, extent and commencement. 1. (1)Short title, extent and commencement. This Act may be called the Drugs and Magic Remedies (Objectionable Advertisements) Act, 1954. (2)It extends to the whole of India except the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and applies also to persons domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends who are outside the said territories. (3.)It shall come into force on such date2* as the Central Government may. by notification in the Official Gazette, appoint. Definitions. 2.Definitions. In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,- (a) " advertisement " includes any notice, circular, label, wrapper, or other document, and any announcement made orally or by any means of producing or transmitting light, sound or smoke; (b) drug " includes- (i) a medicine for the internal or external use of human beings or animals ; (ii) any substance intended to be used for or in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment or prevention of disease in human beings or animals; (iii)any article, other than food, intended to affect or influence in any way the structure or any organic function of the body of human beings or animals; (iv)any article intended for use as a component of any medicine, substance or article, referred to in subclauses (i), (ii) and (iii) --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 This Act has been extended to Pondicherry by Reg. 7 of 1963, S. 3 and Sch. I (w.e.f. 1-10-1963).** 2 1st April 1955, vide Notification No. S. R. O. 511, dated 26th February, 1955, Gazette of India, 1955, Pt. II, Sec. 3, p. 449. ** Extend to and brought into force in Dadra and Nagar Heveli (w.e.f. 1.7.65) by Ref. 6 of 1963, s.2 Sch. I. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 102 (c) " magic remedy " includes a talisman, mantra, kavacha, and any other charm of any kind which is alleged to possess miraculous powers for or in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment or prevention of any disease in human beings or animals or for affecting or influencing in any way the structure or any organic function of the body of human beings or animals ; 1*[(cc) "registered medical practitioner" means any person,- (i)who holds a qualification granted by an authority specified in, or notified under, section 3 of the Indian Medical Degrees Act, 1916 (7 of 1916) or specified in the Schedules to the Indian Medical Council Act, 1956 (102 of 1956) ; or (ii)who is entitled to be registered as a medical practitioner under any law for the time being in force in any State to which this Act extends relating to the registration of medical practitioners ;] (d) taking any part in the publication of any advertisement includes- (i) the printing of the advertisement, (ii)the publication of any advertisement outside the territories to which this Act extends by or at the instance of a person residing within the said territories; 2* * * * * * * Prohibition of advertisement of certain drugs for treatment of certaindiseases and disorders. 3.Prohibition of advertisement of certain drugs for treatment of certain diseases and disorders. Subject to the provisions of this Act, no person shall take any part in the publication of any advertisement referring to any drug in terms which suggest or are calculated to lead to the use of that drug for- (a) the procurement of miscarriage in women or prevention of conception in women; or (b) the maintenance or improvement of the capacity of human beings for sexual pleasure ; or (c) the correction of menstrual disorder in women ; or 3*[(d) the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment or prevention of any disease, disorder or condition specified in the Schedule, or any other disease, disorder or condition (by whatsoever name called) which may be specified in the rules made under this Act: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Ins. by Act 42 of 1963, s. 2. 2 Cl. (e) omitted by s. 2, ibid. 3 Subs. by s. 3, ibid., for cl. (d). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 103 Provided that no such rule shall be made except- (i)in respect of any disease, disorder or condition which requires timely treatment in consultation with a registered medical practitioner or for which there are normally no accepted remedies, and (ii)after consultation with the Drugs Technical Advisory Board constituted under the Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940 (23 of 1940) and, if the Central Government considers necessary, with such other persons having special knowledge or practical experience in respect of Ayurvedic or Unani systems of medicines as that Govern- ment deems fit.] Prohibition of misleading advertisements relating to drugs. 4.Prohibition of misleading advertisements relating to drugs. Subject to the provisions of this Act, no person shall take any part in the publication of any advertisement relating to a drug if the advertisement contains any matter which- (a) directly or indirectly gives a false impression regarding the true character of the drug; or (b) makes a false claim for the drug;or (c) is otherwise false or misleading inany material particular. 5 Prohibition of advertisement of magic remedies for treatment ofcertain diseases and disorders. 5.Prohibition of advertisement of magic remedies for treatment of certain diseases and disorders. No person carrying on or purporting to carry on the profession of administering magic remedies shall take any part in the publication of any advertisement referring to any magic remedy which directly or indirectly claims to be efficacious for any of the purposes specified in section 3. 6 Prohibition of import into, and export from India of certainadvertisements. 6.Prohibition of import into, and export from India of certain advertisements. No person shall import into, or export from, the territories to which this Act extends any document containing an advertisement of the nature referred to in section 3, or section 4, or section 5, and any documents containing any such advertisements shall be deemed to be goods of which the import or export has been prohibited under section 19 of the Sea Customs Act, 1878 (8 of 1878) and all -the provisions of that Act shall have effect accordingly, except that section 183 thereof shall have effect as if for the word " shall " therein the word " may " were substituted. Penalty. 7.Penalty. Whoever contravenes any of the provisions of this Act 1*[or the rules made thereunder] shall, on conviction, be punishable- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Ins. by Act 42 of 1963, s. 4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 104 (a) in the case of a first conviction, with imprisonment which may extend to six months, or with fine, or with both; (b) in the case of a subsequent conviction, with imprisonment which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both. Powers of entry, search, etc. 1*[8. (1)Powers of entry, search, etc. Subject to the provisions of any rules made in this behalf, any Gazetted Officer authorised by the State Government may, within the local limits of the area for which he is so authorised,- (a) enter and search at all reasonable times, with such assistants, if any, as he considers necessary, any place in which he has reason to believe that an offence under this Act has been or is being committed ; (b) seize any advertisement which he has reason to believe contravenes any of the provisions of this Act: Provided that the power of seizure under this clause may be exercised in respect of any document, article or thing which contains any such advertisement, including the contents, if any, of such document, article or thing, if the advertisement cannot be separated by reason of its being embossed or otherwise, from such document, article or thing without affecting the integrity, utility or saleable value thereof ; (c) examine any record, register, document or any other material object found in any place mentioned in clause (a) and seize the same if he has reason to believe that it may furnish evidence of the commission of an offence punishable under this Act. (2) The provisions of the Code of Criminal Procedure, 1898 (5 of 1898), shall, so far as may be, apply to any search or seizure under this Act as they apply to any search or seizure made under the authority of a warrant issued under section 98 of the said Code. (3) Where any person seizes anything under clause (b) or clause (c) of sub-section (1), he shall, as soon as may be, inform a Magistrate and take his orders as to the custody thereof.] Offences by companies. 9. (1)Offences by companies. If the person contravening any of the provisions of this Act is a company, every person who at the time the offence was committed, was in charge of, and was responsible to, the company for the conduct of the business of the company as well as the company shall be deemed to be guilty of the contravention and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Subs. by Act 42 of 1963, s. 5, for s. 8. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 105 Provided that nothing contained in this sub-section shall render any such person liable to any punishment provided in this Act if he proves that the offence was committed without his knowledge or that he exercised all due diligence to prevent the commission of such offence. (2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1) where an offence under this Act has been committed by a company and it is proved that the offence was committed with the consent or connivance of, or is attributable to any neglect on the part of, any director or manager, secretary or other officer of the company, such director manager, secretary or other officer of the company shall also be deemed to be guilty of that offence and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly. Explanation.-For the purposes of this section,- (a) " company " means any body corporate and includes a firm or other association of individuals, and (b)" director " in relation to a firm means a partner in the firm. 1*[9A.Offences to be cognizable. Notwithstanding anything contained in the Code of Criminal Procedure, 1898, (5 of 1898) an offence punishable under this Act shall be cognizable.] Jurisdiction to try offences. 10.Jurisdiction to try offences. No court inferior to that of a presidency magistrate or a magistrate of the first class shall try any offence punishable under this Act. 2*[10A.Forfeiture. Where a person has been convicted by any court for contravening any provision of this Act or any rule made thereunder, the court may direct that any document (including all copies thereof), article or thing, in respect of which the contravention is made, including the contents thereof where such contents are seized under clause (b) of sub-section (1) of section 8, shall be forfeited to the Government.] Officers to be deemed to be public servants. 11.Officers to be deemed to be public servants. Every person authorised under section 8 shall be deemed to be a public servant within the meaning of section 21 of the Indian Penal Code. (45 of 1860). Indemnity. 12.Indemnity. No suit, prosecution or other legal proceeding shall lie against any person for anything which is in good faith done or intended to be done under this Act. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Ins. by Act 42 of 1963, s. 6. 2 Ins. by s. 7, ibid, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 106 Other laws not affected. 13.Other laws not affected. The provisions of this Act are in addition to, and not in derogation of the provisions of any other law for the time being in force. Savings. 1*[14.Savings. Nothing in this Act shall apply to- (a) any sign board or notice displayed by a registered medical practitioner on his premises indicating that treatment for any disease, disorder or condition specified in section 3, the Schedule or the rules made under this Act, is undertaken in those premises ; or (b) any treatise or book dealing with any of the matters specified in section 3 from a bona fide scientific or social standpoint ; or (c) any advertisement relating to any drug sent confidentially in the manner prescribed under section 16 only to a registered medical practitioner ; or (d) any advertisement relating to a drug printed or published by the Government ; or (e) any advertisement relating to a drug printed or published by any person with the previous sanction of the Government granted prior to the commencement of the Drugs and Magic Remedies (Objectionable Advertisements) Amendment Act, 1963 (42 of 1963); Provided that the Government may, for reasons to be recorded in writing, withdraw the sanction after giving the person in opportunity of showing cause against such withdrawal.] 15 Power to exempt from application of Act. 15.Power to exempt from application of Act. If in the opinion of the Central Government public interest requires that the advertisement of any specified drug or class of drugs 2*[or any specified class of advertisements relating to drugs] should be permitted, it may, by notification in the Official Gazette, direct that the provisions of sections 3, 4, 5 and 6 or any one of such provisions shall not apply or shall apply subject to such conditions as may be specified in the notification to or in relation to the advertisement of any such drug or class of drugs 2*[or any such class of advertisements relating to drugs]. 16 Power to make rules. 16. (1)Power to make rules. The Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette make rules for carrying out the purposes of this Act. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Subs, by Act 42 of 1963, s. 8, for s. 14. 2 Ins. by s. 9, ibid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 106A (2) In particular and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing power, such rules may- (a) specify any 1*[disease, disorder or condition] to which the provisions of section 3 shall apply (b) prescribe the manner in which advertisements of articles or things referred to in clause (c) of 2* *** sections 14 may be sent confidentially. 3*[(3) Every rule made under this Act shall be laid as soon as may be after it is made, before each House of Parliament while it is in session for a total period of thirty days which may be comprised in one session or in two or more successive sessions, and if before the expiry of the session in which it is so laid or the successive sessions aforesaid, both Houses agree in making any modification in the rule or both Houses agree that the rule should not be made, the rule shall thereafter have effect only in such modified form or be of no effect, as the case may be ; so however, that any such modification or annulment shall be without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done under that rule.] SCHE [See sections 3 (d) and 14.] 4*[THE SCHEDULE [See sections 3 (d) and 14.] S.. No. Name of the disease, disorder or condition 1. Appendicitis 2. Arteriosclerosis 3. Blindness 4. Blood poisoning 5. Bright's disease 6. Cancer 7. Cataract 8. Deafness 9. Diabetes 10. Diseases and disorders of the brain 11. Diseases and disorders of the optical system ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Subs by Act 42 of 1963, s. 10, for "disease or condition". 2 The words brackets and figure"sub-section (1) of" omitted by s.10, ibid. 3 Ins. by s. 10, ibid. 4 Ins. by s. 11, ibid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 106B S. No. Name of the disease, disorder or condition 12. Diseases and disorders of the uterus 13. Disorders, of menstrual flow 14. Disorders of the nervous system 15. Disorders of the prostatic gland 16. Dropsy 17. Epilepsy 18. Female diseases (in general) 19. Fevers (in general) 20. Fits 21. Form and structure of the female bust 22. Gall stones, kidney stones and bladder stones 23. Gangrene 24. Glaucoma 25. Goitre 26. Heart diseases 27. High or low blood pressure 28. Hydrocele 29. Hysteria 30. Infantile paralysis 31. Insanity 32. Leprosy 33. Leucoderma 34. Lockjaw 35. Locomotor ataxia 36. Lupus 37. Nervous debility 38. Obesity 39. Paralysis 40. Plague 41. Pleurisy 42. Pneumonia 43. Rheumatism 44. Ruptures 106c S. No. Name of the disease, disorder or condition 45. Sexual impotence 46. Smallpox 47. Stature of persons 48. Sterility in women 49. Trachoma 50. Tuberculosis 51. Tumours 52. Typhoid fever 53. Ulcers of the gastrointestinal tract 54. Venereal diseases, including syphilis, gonorrhoea, soft chancre, venereal granuloma and lympho granuloma.] On 7/11/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > From Rationalist International: > > Swami Ramdev expects a revenue of 40 million dollar this year. Selling > India’s ancient, pre-scientific notion of health care and cure – repackaged > as his very special brand – is good business. Thanks to his all-out > marketing, Pranayama (ancient exercise in breath control) and ayurveda are > big hits with the ever-growing and prospering Indian middle class. His daily > early morning show has allegedly 20 million viewers. His 500 hospitals in > the country are said to register 30,000 patients per day. His new > headquarters in the “holy city” of Haridwar may soon be world’s largest > center for yoga and ayurveda. > > Swami Ramdev’s breathing routine as such may be as harmless as useless. But > it comes with the stunning claim to cure all kinds of illnesses including > cancer and HIV/Aids. His brand of yoga, so runs his pseudo medical argument, > increases the CD4 count – the number of cells attacking the HIV virus. Such > baseless and irresponsible claims, luring a vast number of patients in need > of medical treatment into a false sense of security, turn Swami Ramdev’s > yoga ministry a disastrous venture. > > “Swami Ramdev is a dangerous man”, said Sanal Edamaruku in a press > statement. ’It is high time that the authorities put a stop to his > activities. Claiming such absurdities is against the law. The magical > remedies act of 1954 was brought in to stop people such as Baba Ramdev from > promoting dangerous ideas about curing cancer and the like. But the > political class is running scared of him and of the backlash that his legal > prosecution might unleash." > > Quoting Sanal Edamaruku, the following article appeared in *The Guardian*. > > > TV swami offers a cure for all ills > > Yoga evangelist has millions in his thrall, > but critics claim devotees are being duped > > Randeep Ramesh > The Guardian, Saturday June 14 2008 > > At 5am beneath the Shivalik hills in northern India, Swami Ramdev sits > cross-legged swaddled in saffron robes commanding the rapt attention of 500 > devotees of his brand of yoga. The crowd is made up mostly of middle-class > Indians, many suffering from chronic conditions for which traditional > medicine has little to offer but comfort. > > Each "patient" has paid 7,000 to 40,000 rupees (£90 to £500) to be among > the first to spend a week at the swami's newest venture: a village of 300 > bungalows offering spiritual retreat in the shadow of eucalyptus trees. > Swami Ramdev's pitch is that pranayama, the ancient Indian art of breath > control, can cure a bewildering array of diseases. "Asthma, arthritis, > sickle-cell anaemia, kidney problems, thyroid disease, hepatitis, slipped > discs and it will unblock any fallopian tubes," he tells his audience in the > yoga village, who line up to have their blood tested and receive herbal > remedies. > > Although India has a long tradition of mystical gurus, Swami Ramdev > represents a new phenomenon: the television yoga evangelist. Almost all his > congregation have been drawn through his shows on India's Aastha channel. > Every morning, the swami appears on television chanting prayers and > explaining that ailments, physical and mental, can be treated by what looks > like little more than sharp intakes of air and painful-looking body > contortions. More than 20 million tune in each day in India alone. The > television guru, who is also known as Baba Ramdev, is also available across > the world - including Britain. He has just finished teaching on a yoga > cruise from India to China, which even after attracting corporate > sponsorship still charged disciples £1,000 a ticket. Last year he appeared > in Westminster to give British politicians a chance to sample his yogic > wisdom. > > Ludy Mantri, a housewife from Mauritius, has paid 40,000 rupees and > travelled 4,000 miles to see "her swami" in the Haridwar yoga village in the > hope he can help her find a cure for diabetes. > > "I have been on medicines every day for the last 12 years. The chanting of > Om has an amazing effect and the words of Ramdev energise one through the > day." > > Born into a farming family in north India he retains a common touch, making > rustic jokes in chaste Hindi. The guru combines this with a gentle manner > and a knack for public relations. The swami sells himself as a one-person > health service. He says he only charges the wealthy and that the poor get > his medicines for free. He has 500 hospitals in India serving more than > 30,000 a day. > > It is no surprise that many sections of the Indian elite - including > judges, ministers and Bollywood stars - have visited his camps. Such is his > popularity that the Indian army incorporated Ramdev's techniques claiming it > made for a "deadlier fighting force". > > Ramdev often speaks less of spiritualism and more of the need to develop > his country through yoga, portraying himself as an Indian nationalist. He > attacks multinational companies for seeking to drain India of profits. He > calls Coke and Pepsi good only for "toilet cleaning". > > In a country where renunciation is seen as almost a divine virtue, Ramdev > announces that he has long ago given up sex - because "it is not love". The > adoration he inspires was seen in 2006 when Indian communists accused the > guru of using human bones and animal parts in ayurvedic drugs produced by > his pharmacy. His followers rioted and attacked the party headquarters. The > Communist party backed down when it saw where public sympathy lay.In an > interview with the Guardian, Ramdev said that the problem with communists > was that they did not have "faith in spirituality and are philosophically > against religion. My cures are clean but the communists have an agenda." > > There is little controversy about his basic assertions. He says that > following his yoga teachings for 30 minutes a day, along with a vegetarian > diet of raw or lightly boiled food and no alcohol or tobacco, clears clogged > arteries, reduces blood sugar and lowers blood pressure. > > But the swami defended his more extravagant claims that yoga could cure > terminal illnesses such as cancer. He also said he had evidence that > breathing exercises could help Aids patients recover by enabling a rise in > the number of cells that the HIV virus destroys. > > Ramdev has an explanation for his success with cancer - that yoga > oxygenates the blood which kills the tumour. "Yoga is self-healing and > self-realisation. I have many cases of cancer which I can provide where > patients have recovered. We have cured blood, throat, ovarian, uterine and > throat cancers with yoga." > > In the case of HIV, he says scientists "have not understood [it] properly". > He says that "through yoga and lifestyle changes people increase their CD4 > count [the cells the HIV virus attacks]. The truth seen for the first time > does appear like a miracle." > > Such claims have angered many doctors. Mohammed Abbas, The president of the > Indian Medical Association, said that although yoga is "good exercise, it > cannot be used to make ridiculous claims about curing HIV or cancer. This is > false hope for ill people." > > The swami says patients are tested and improvements measured by > "independent" doctors. Asked whether he has run any tests to analyse > treatment, he offers a ook of testimonies from disciples convinced they have > been cured of cancer, cirrhosis and kidney failure. > > Some have called for the swami to be prosecuted for "peddling quackery of > the highest order". > > "Claiming such absurdities is against the law," said Sanal Edamaruku of the > Indian Rationalist Association. "The magical remedies act of 1954 was > brought in to stop people such as Baba Ramdev from promoting dangerous ideas > about curing cancer and the like. > > "The political class is running scared of this man and the backlash that > such a prosecution might unleash." > > > On 7/11/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> Dear Aditya, >> >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the brinda >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can exist >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say that >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions my >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to answer >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on harping >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess people >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity of >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take it >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of delhi? >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. take >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like ramdev >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and i >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been arrested, >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com >> >> -with best wishes >> >> anupam >> >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >>> Dear Anupam >>> >>> You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter >>> truth. >>> Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. >>> >>> You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? >>> >>> I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article >>> which >>> you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious >>> doubts >>> over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the >>> world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was >>> it >>> mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? >>> >>> I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an >>> apologist Sir. >>> >>> I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if >>> something >>> is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. >>> >>> Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed >>> yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, >>> I >>> can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my >>> friend. I >>> told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you >>> some new ideas of your own. >>> >>> I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. >>> >>> Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called >>> intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. >>> >>> This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve >>> anything. >>> It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of >>> whatever argument you have. >>> >>> NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. >>> >>> I PITY YOU. >>> >>> P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. >>> >>> I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer >>> from >>> a complex. >>> >>> God please help my friend. >>> >>> Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) >>> >>> regardsAditya Raj Kaul >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty >> >wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Aditya, >>> > >>> > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising >>> Baba >>> > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you >>> have >>> > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How >>> > much >>> > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to >>> spread >>> > Ramdev's message? >>> > >>> > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a >>> guy >>> > who had filed an application in the supreme court against >>> decriminalisation >>> > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you >>> > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba >>> Ramdev >>> > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this >>> > reader's >>> > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks >>> on >>> > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i >>> > request his/her intervention on this issue. >>> > >>> > -anupam >>> > >>> > >>> > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >>> > > >>> > > Dear Anupam >>> > > >>> > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions >>> > about >>> > > a >>> > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or >>> > argument >>> > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that >>> is >>> > an >>> > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in >>> > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to >>> > millions >>> > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in >>> > > different >>> > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing >>> Yoga. >>> > > It >>> > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at >>> all >>> > you >>> > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even >>> if >>> > he >>> > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much >>> ? It >>> > > is >>> > > a very right step. >>> > > >>> > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is >>> > service >>> > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust >>> > him. >>> > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your >>> > > health. >>> > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. >>> > > >>> > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even >>> confirming >>> > my >>> > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This >>> is >>> > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic >>> of >>> > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? >>> > > >>> > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a >>> very >>> > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there >>> are >>> > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. >>> Not >>> > just >>> > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't >>> bring >>> > > in >>> > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few >>> > hundred >>> > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every >>> year. >>> > I >>> > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and >>> compassion. >>> > They >>> > > are just like any other Human being. >>> > > >>> > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. >>> > Either >>> > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you >>> are >>> > just >>> > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. >>> > > >>> > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the >>> > Supreme >>> > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. >>> Don't >>> > be >>> > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another >>> petition >>> > if >>> > > you really feel about the issue. >>> > > >>> > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about >>> your >>> > > arrogance more than the original issue. >>> > > >>> > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) >>> > > >>> > > love >>> > > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 14:52:52 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:52:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had enough of tension. How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You seem to be suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your poor mental health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology always screams against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your information. You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred and rumours. That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these silly and lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without criminalization. It is as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is easy english. Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on the streets of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. Its time you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an opposite view. It won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I said earlier. yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors after prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian Society. You want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you whose arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these mails to make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz of your narrow minded approach!! You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' remarks. You have lost it badly. You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, against a particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing more. I'm honestly feeling sorry for you. BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in spreading the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You will just abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. Outside you are a scared rat. You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be satisfied in your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain and your rumours against the saint. God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. regards On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the brinda > brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can > exist > without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say that > section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions my > friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to > continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive > whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to > answer > any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on harping > about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess people > like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity of > that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take it > seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of delhi? > see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. take > care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like ramdev > to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and i > will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a > commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been arrested, > but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon > heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > > -with best wishes > > anupam > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > Dear Anupam > > > > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter > truth. > > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > > > > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? > > > > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article > which > > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious > > doubts > > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the > > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was > it > > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? > > > > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an > > apologist Sir. > > > > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if > something > > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > > > > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed > > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, > I > > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my > friend. > > I > > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you > > some new ideas of your own. > > > > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. > > > > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called > > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. > > > > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve > anything. > > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of > > whatever argument you have. > > > > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. > > > > I PITY YOU. > > > > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. > > > > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer > > from > > a complex. > > > > God please help my friend. > > > > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > > > > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising > Baba > > > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you > > have > > > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How > > > much > > > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to > spread > > > Ramdev's message? > > > > > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a > > guy > > > who had filed an application in the supreme court against > > decriminalisation > > > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you > > > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba > > Ramdev > > > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this > > > reader's > > > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks > > on > > > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i > > > request his/her intervention on this issue. > > > > > > -anupam > > > > > > > > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions > > > about > > > > a > > > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or > > > argument > > > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that > is > > > an > > > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > > > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to > > > millions > > > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in > > > > different > > > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing > > Yoga. > > > > It > > > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at > all > > > you > > > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even > > if > > > he > > > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much > ? > > It > > > > is > > > > a very right step. > > > > > > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is > > > service > > > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust > > > him. > > > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your > > > > health. > > > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > > > > > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even > confirming > > > my > > > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This > is > > > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic > > of > > > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > > > > > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a > very > > > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there > are > > > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. > Not > > > just > > > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't > > bring > > > > in > > > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few > > > hundred > > > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every > > year. > > > I > > > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and > compassion. > > > They > > > > are just like any other Human being. > > > > > > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. > > > Either > > > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you > are > > > just > > > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > > > > > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the > > > Supreme > > > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. > > Don't > > > be > > > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another > > petition > > > if > > > > you really feel about the issue. > > > > > > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about > your > > > > arrogance more than the original issue. > > > > > > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > > > > > > > love > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From aryakrish at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 15:06:54 2009 From: aryakrish at gmail.com (aryakrishnan ramakrishnan) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:06:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: See Devdutt Pattanaik's and other's response. "Baba's understanding of the body is very different," says Dr Pattanaik. "He is a very good yoga instructor. But if yoga could cure everything, why has it not cured his squint? Does he not consider it to be a problem?" http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/10/yoga-helped-many-accept-their-sexual-orientation.htm On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Anupam > >  ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had enough of > tension. > > How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You seem to be > suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your poor mental > health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. > > My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology always screams > against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your information. > You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred and rumours. > That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. > > I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these silly and > lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without criminalization. It is > as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is easy english. > > Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on the streets > of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. Its time > you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an opposite view. It > won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I said > earlier. > > yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors after > prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian Society. You > want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. > > I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you whose > arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these mails to > make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz of your > narrow minded approach!! > > You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' remarks. You > have lost it badly. > > You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, against a > particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing more. I'm > honestly feeling sorry for you. > > BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in spreading > the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You will just > abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. Outside you are > a scared rat. > > You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be satisfied in > your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain and your > rumours against the saint. > > God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. > > regards > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Aditya, >> >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the brinda >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can >> exist >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say that >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions my >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to >> answer >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on harping >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess people >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity of >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take it >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of delhi? >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. take >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like ramdev >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and i >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been arrested, >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com >> >> -with best wishes >> >> anupam >> >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> > Dear Anupam >> > >> >   You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter >> truth. >> > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. >> > >> > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? >> > >> > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article >> which >> > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious >> > doubts >> > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the >> > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was >> it >> > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? >> > >> > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an >> > apologist Sir. >> > >> > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if >> something >> > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. >> > >> > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed >> > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, >> I >> > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my >> friend. >> > I >> > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you >> > some new ideas of your own. >> > >> > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. >> > >> > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called >> > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. >> > >> > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve >> anything. >> > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of >> > whatever argument you have. >> > >> > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. >> > >> > I PITY YOU. >> > >> > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. >> > >> > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer >> > from >> > a complex. >> > >> > God please help my friend. >> > >> > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) >> > >> > regardsAditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty > > >wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Aditya, >> > > >> > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising >> Baba >> > > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you >> > have >> > > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How >> > > much >> > > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to >> spread >> > > Ramdev's message? >> > > >> > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a >> > guy >> > > who had filed an application in the supreme court against >> > decriminalisation >> > > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you >> > > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba >> > Ramdev >> > > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this >> > > reader's >> > > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks >> > on >> > > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i >> > > request his/her intervention on this issue. >> > > >> > > -anupam >> > > >> > > >> > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Dear Anupam >> > > > >> > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions >> > > about >> > > > a >> > > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or >> > > argument >> > > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that >> is >> > > an >> > > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in >> > > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to >> > > millions >> > > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in >> > > > different >> > > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing >> > Yoga. >> > > > It >> > > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at >> all >> > > you >> > > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even >> > if >> > > he >> > > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much >> ? >> > It >> > > > is >> > > > a very right step. >> > > > >> > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is >> > > service >> > > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust >> > > him. >> > > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your >> > > > health. >> > > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. >> > > > >> > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even >> confirming >> > > my >> > > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This >> is >> > > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic >> > of >> > > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? >> > > > >> > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a >> very >> > > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there >> are >> > > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. >> Not >> > > just >> > > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't >> > bring >> > > > in >> > > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few >> > > hundred >> > > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every >> > year. >> > > I >> > > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and >> compassion. >> > > They >> > > > are just like any other Human being. >> > > > >> > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. >> > > Either >> > > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you >> are >> > > just >> > > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. >> > > > >> > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the >> > > Supreme >> > > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. >> > Don't >> > > be >> > > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another >> > petition >> > > if >> > > > you really feel about the issue. >> > > > >> > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about >> your >> > > > arrogance more than the original issue. >> > > > >> > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) >> > > > >> > > > love >> > > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- 0091 9810522986 http://aryakrishnan.blogspot.com www.bookport.in From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 15:27:04 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:27:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, you last email shows your maturity in understanding any issue. its been exposed. its upto the reader to decide. i have nothing to add. and yeah calling me a cry baby is helping too much :) -anupam On 7/11/09, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan wrote: > See Devdutt Pattanaik's and other's response. > > "Baba's understanding of the body is very different," says Dr > Pattanaik. "He is a very good yoga instructor. But if yoga could cure > everything, why has it not cured his squint? Does he not consider it > to be a problem?" > > > http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/10/yoga-helped-many-accept-their-sexual-orientation.htm > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > > > ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had enough of > > tension. > > > > How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You seem to be > > suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your poor > mental > > health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. > > > > My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology always > screams > > against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your > information. > > You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred and > rumours. > > That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. > > > > I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these silly and > > lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without criminalization. It > is > > as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is easy > english. > > > > Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on the > streets > > of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. Its > time > > you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an opposite view. > It > > won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I said > > earlier. > > > > yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors after > > prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian Society. You > > want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. > > > > I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you whose > > arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these mails to > > make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz of your > > narrow minded approach!! > > > > You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' remarks. > You > > have lost it badly. > > > > You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, against > a > > particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing more. I'm > > honestly feeling sorry for you. > > > > BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in spreading > > the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You will just > > abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. Outside you > are > > a scared rat. > > > > You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be satisfied in > > your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain and your > > rumours against the saint. > > > > God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. > > > > regards > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Aditya, > >> > >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the > brinda > >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can > >> exist > >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say > that > >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions my > >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to > >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive > >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to > >> answer > >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on > harping > >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess people > >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity of > >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take > it > >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of > delhi? > >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. > take > >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like > ramdev > >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and i > >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a > >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been > arrested, > >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon > >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > >> > >> -with best wishes > >> > >> anupam > >> > >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > >> > Dear Anupam > >> > > >> > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter > >> truth. > >> > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > >> > > >> > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? > >> > > >> > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article > >> which > >> > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious > >> > doubts > >> > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of > the > >> > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or > was > >> it > >> > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? > >> > > >> > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be > an > >> > apologist Sir. > >> > > >> > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if > >> something > >> > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > >> > > >> > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed > >> > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that > case, > >> I > >> > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my > >> friend. > >> > I > >> > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get > you > >> > some new ideas of your own. > >> > > >> > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM > CHAKRAVARTTY. > >> > > >> > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called > >> > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried away. > >> > > >> > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve > >> anything. > >> > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery > of > >> > whatever argument you have. > >> > > >> > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. > >> > > >> > I PITY YOU. > >> > > >> > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. > >> > > >> > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead > suffer > >> > from > >> > a complex. > >> > > >> > God please help my friend. > >> > > >> > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > >> > > >> > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > > >> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > >> > >wrote: > >> > > >> > > Dear Aditya, > >> > > > >> > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising > >> Baba > >> > > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But > you > >> > have > >> > > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? > How > >> > > much > >> > > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to > >> spread > >> > > Ramdev's message? > >> > > > >> > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack > of a > >> > guy > >> > > who had filed an application in the supreme court against > >> > decriminalisation > >> > > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that > you > >> > > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba > >> > Ramdev > >> > > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this > >> > > reader's > >> > > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted > attacks > >> > on > >> > > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and > i > >> > > request his/her intervention on this issue. > >> > > > >> > > -anupam > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Dear Anupam > >> > > > > >> > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to > conclusions > >> > > about > >> > > > a > >> > > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or > >> > > argument > >> > > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, > that > >> is > >> > > an > >> > > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > >> > > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to > >> > > millions > >> > > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in > >> > > > different > >> > > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of > doing > >> > Yoga. > >> > > > It > >> > > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at > >> all > >> > > you > >> > > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. > Even > >> > if > >> > > he > >> > > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so > much > >> ? > >> > It > >> > > > is > >> > > > a very right step. > >> > > > > >> > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is > >> > > service > >> > > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people > trust > >> > > him. > >> > > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of > your > >> > > > health. > >> > > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > >> > > > > >> > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even > >> confirming > >> > > my > >> > > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. > This > >> is > >> > > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. > Pathetic > >> > of > >> > > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > >> > > > > >> > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a > >> very > >> > > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but > there > >> are > >> > > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. > >> Not > >> > > just > >> > > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You > can't > >> > bring > >> > > > in > >> > > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few > >> > > hundred > >> > > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday > every > >> > year. > >> > > I > >> > > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and > >> compassion. > >> > > They > >> > > > are just like any other Human being. > >> > > > > >> > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of > ignorance. > >> > > Either > >> > > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you > >> are > >> > > just > >> > > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > >> > > > > >> > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the > >> > > Supreme > >> > > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. > >> > Don't > >> > > be > >> > > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another > >> > petition > >> > > if > >> > > > you really feel about the issue. > >> > > > > >> > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about > >> your > >> > > > arrogance more than the original issue. > >> > > > > >> > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > >> > > > > >> > > > love > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > 0091 9810522986 > http://aryakrishnan.blogspot.com > www.bookport.in > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 17:09:33 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:09:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> Certainly it is dada. I turned to such pathetic language, b'coz that is what you understand best. It is working as the sarai list members can see. Your tone towards Baba Ramdev in last many mails, without credible eveidence speaks of your maturity. Nothing more to add. You said it.. love On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:27 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > you last email shows your maturity in understanding any issue. its been > exposed. its upto the reader to decide. > i have nothing to add. and yeah calling me a cry baby is helping too much > :) > > -anupam > > On 7/11/09, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan wrote: > > > See Devdutt Pattanaik's and other's response. > > > > "Baba's understanding of the body is very different," says Dr > > Pattanaik. "He is a very good yoga instructor. But if yoga could cure > > everything, why has it not cured his squint? Does he not consider it > > to be a problem?" > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/10/yoga-helped-many-accept-their-sexual-orientation.htm > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > > wrote: > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had enough > of > > > tension. > > > > > > How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You seem to > be > > > suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your poor > > mental > > > health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. > > > > > > My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology always > > screams > > > against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your > > information. > > > You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred and > > rumours. > > > That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. > > > > > > I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these silly > and > > > lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without criminalization. > It > > is > > > as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is easy > > english. > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on the > > streets > > > of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. Its > > time > > > you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an opposite > view. > > It > > > won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I said > > > earlier. > > > > > > yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors after > > > prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian Society. > You > > > want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. > > > > > > I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you whose > > > arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these mails > to > > > make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz of > your > > > narrow minded approach!! > > > > > > You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' > remarks. > > You > > > have lost it badly. > > > > > > You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, > against > > a > > > particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing more. > I'm > > > honestly feeling sorry for you. > > > > > > BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in > spreading > > > the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You will > just > > > abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. Outside > you > > are > > > a scared rat. > > > > > > You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be satisfied > in > > > your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain and > your > > > rumours against the saint. > > > > > > God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Aditya, > > >> > > >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the > > brinda > > >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev can > > >> exist > > >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say > > that > > >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions > my > > >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish to > > >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can derive > > >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able to > > >> answer > > >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on > > harping > > >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess > people > > >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the sanctity > of > > >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will take > > it > > >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of > > delhi? > > >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. > > take > > >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like > > ramdev > > >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev and > i > > >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into a > > >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been > > arrested, > > >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon > > >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > > >> > > >> -with best wishes > > >> > > >> anupam > > >> > > >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > >> > > >> > Dear Anupam > > >> > > > >> > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter > > >> truth. > > >> > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > > >> > > > >> > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me > ? > > >> > > > >> > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news > article > > >> which > > >> > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've > serious > > >> > doubts > > >> > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of > > the > > >> > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or > > was > > >> it > > >> > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? > > >> > > > >> > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't > be > > an > > >> > apologist Sir. > > >> > > > >> > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if > > >> something > > >> > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > > >> > > > >> > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed > > >> > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that > > case, > > >> I > > >> > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my > > >> friend. > > >> > I > > >> > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get > > you > > >> > some new ideas of your own. > > >> > > > >> > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM > > CHAKRAVARTTY. > > >> > > > >> > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so > called > > >> > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried > away. > > >> > > > >> > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve > > >> anything. > > >> > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery > > of > > >> > whatever argument you have. > > >> > > > >> > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. > > >> > > > >> > I PITY YOU. > > >> > > > >> > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. > > >> > > > >> > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead > > suffer > > >> > from > > >> > a complex. > > >> > > > >> > God please help my friend. > > >> > > > >> > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > > >> > > > >> > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > >> > >wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Dear Aditya, > > >> > > > > >> > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for > advertising > > >> Baba > > >> > > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But > > you > > >> > have > > >> > > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes > here? > > How > > >> > > much > > >> > > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to > > >> spread > > >> > > Ramdev's message? > > >> > > > > >> > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack > > of a > > >> > guy > > >> > > who had filed an application in the supreme court against > > >> > decriminalisation > > >> > > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying > that > > you > > >> > > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using > Baba > > >> > Ramdev > > >> > > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on > this > > >> > > reader's > > >> > > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted > > attacks > > >> > on > > >> > > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here > and > > i > > >> > > request his/her intervention on this issue. > > >> > > > > >> > > -anupam > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Dear Anupam > > >> > > > > > >> > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to > > conclusions > > >> > > about > > >> > > > a > > >> > > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof > or > > >> > > argument > > >> > > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, > > that > > >> is > > >> > > an > > >> > > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > > >> > > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving > to > > >> > > millions > > >> > > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events > in > > >> > > > different > > >> > > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of > > doing > > >> > Yoga. > > >> > > > It > > >> > > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if > at > > >> all > > >> > > you > > >> > > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. > > Even > > >> > if > > >> > > he > > >> > > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so > > much > > >> ? > > >> > It > > >> > > > is > > >> > > > a very right step. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it > is > > >> > > service > > >> > > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people > > trust > > >> > > him. > > >> > > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of > > your > > >> > > > health. > > >> > > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even > > >> confirming > > >> > > my > > >> > > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. > > This > > >> is > > >> > > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. > > Pathetic > > >> > of > > >> > > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is > a > > >> very > > >> > > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but > > there > > >> are > > >> > > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be > legal. > > >> Not > > >> > > just > > >> > > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You > > can't > > >> > bring > > >> > > > in > > >> > > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a > few > > >> > > hundred > > >> > > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday > > every > > >> > year. > > >> > > I > > >> > > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and > > >> compassion. > > >> > > They > > >> > > > are just like any other Human being. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of > > ignorance. > > >> > > Either > > >> > > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else > you > > >> are > > >> > > just > > >> > > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in > the > > >> > > Supreme > > >> > > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the > same. > > >> > Don't > > >> > > be > > >> > > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another > > >> > petition > > >> > > if > > >> > > > you really feel about the issue. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk > about > > >> your > > >> > > > arrogance more than the original issue. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > >> > > > > > >> > > > love > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > _________________________________________ > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > 0091 9810522986 > > http://aryakrishnan.blogspot.com > > www.bookport.in > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 18:15:43 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:15:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> Aditya, Nothing more to add to your understanding that's what i meant. i mean even if i do, your mind is in such a state that it cannot accept these arguments. are u also a fan of asaram bapu and ashok jadeja? you have addressed many other respected readers in similar ways not just me. so in case you are thinking that by engaging in ad hominem attacks on other readers you can control debates, it is completely wrong. this is what i mean when i say that u need to understand. personally, i have nothing against u or baba ramdev. i will be honest about what got me into this argument. for some reason, you used: "@ Inder 'Converted' Salim. Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless you.Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help Hindus. It helps. Homosexuals too. Just everybody. Hope the DESI dosage helps your case." Frankly, since im a subscriber to this list, it pains to see the way you talk like this. that's the precise reason why i got into this debate. else i dont even want to comment on something as some quack, which he is, since his cures are yet to be approved by the scientists. i always knew that since you can these things to inder today, you are quite capable of saying things to others who is not following your line of arguing. i dont care which shivir you attend of thursdays or which books do you read. its your life and you are responsible. this i say, when on many i have had interesting conversations with other list leaders, who were vehemently opposed to my ideas and vice versa. however, there was a line of arguing. it is this understanding that i was referring, which unfortunately is not happening here. -anupam On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Certainly it is dada. I turned to such pathetic language, b'coz that is > what > you understand best. It is working as the sarai list members can see. > > Your tone towards Baba Ramdev in last many mails, without credible > eveidence > speaks of your maturity. > > Nothing more to add. You said it.. > > love > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:27 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > you last email shows your maturity in understanding any issue. its been > > exposed. its upto the reader to decide. > > i have nothing to add. and yeah calling me a cry baby is helping too much > > :) > > > > -anupam > > > > On 7/11/09, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan wrote: > > > > > See Devdutt Pattanaik's and other's response. > > > > > > "Baba's understanding of the body is very different," says Dr > > > Pattanaik. "He is a very good yoga instructor. But if yoga could cure > > > everything, why has it not cured his squint? Does he not consider it > > > to be a problem?" > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/10/yoga-helped-many-accept-their-sexual-orientation.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul< > kauladityaraj at gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had > enough > > of > > > > tension. > > > > > > > > How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You seem > to > > be > > > > suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your poor > > > mental > > > > health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. > > > > > > > > My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology always > > > screams > > > > against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your > > > information. > > > > You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred and > > > rumours. > > > > That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. > > > > > > > > I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these silly > > and > > > > lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without criminalization. > > It > > > is > > > > as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is easy > > > english. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on the > > > streets > > > > of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. Its > > > time > > > > you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an opposite > > view. > > > It > > > > won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I said > > > > earlier. > > > > > > > > yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors > after > > > > prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian Society. > > You > > > > want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. > > > > > > > > I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you whose > > > > arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these > mails > > to > > > > make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz of > > your > > > > narrow minded approach!! > > > > > > > > You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' > > remarks. > > > You > > > > have lost it badly. > > > > > > > > You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, > > against > > > a > > > > particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing more. > > I'm > > > > honestly feeling sorry for you. > > > > > > > > BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in > > spreading > > > > the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You will > > just > > > > abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. Outside > > you > > > are > > > > a scared rat. > > > > > > > > You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be satisfied > > in > > > > your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain and > > your > > > > rumours against the saint. > > > > > > > > God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > >> Dear Aditya, > > > >> > > > >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the > > > brinda > > > >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev > can > > > >> exist > > > >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you say > > > that > > > >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your intentions > > my > > > >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont wish > to > > > >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can > derive > > > >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able > to > > > >> answer > > > >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on > > > harping > > > >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess > > people > > > >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the > sanctity > > of > > > >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will > take > > > it > > > >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions of > > > delhi? > > > >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for you. > > > take > > > >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people like > > > ramdev > > > >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev > and > > i > > > >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga into > a > > > >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been > > > arrested, > > > >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, soon > > > >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > > > >> > > > >> -with best wishes > > > >> > > > >> anupam > > > >> > > > >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Dear Anupam > > > >> > > > > >> > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to > counter > > > >> truth. > > > >> > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > > > >> > > > > >> > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get > me > > ? > > > >> > > > > >> > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news > > article > > > >> which > > > >> > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've > > serious > > > >> > doubts > > > >> > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's > of > > > the > > > >> > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television > or > > > was > > > >> it > > > >> > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? > > > >> > > > > >> > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. > Don't > > be > > > an > > > >> > apologist Sir. > > > >> > > > > >> > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if > > > >> something > > > >> > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > > > >> > > > > >> > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you > failed > > > >> > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that > > > case, > > > >> I > > > >> > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my > > > >> friend. > > > >> > I > > > >> > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and > get > > > you > > > >> > some new ideas of your own. > > > >> > > > > >> > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM > > > CHAKRAVARTTY. > > > >> > > > > >> > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so > > called > > > >> > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried > > away. > > > >> > > > > >> > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve > > > >> anything. > > > >> > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a > mockery > > > of > > > >> > whatever argument you have. > > > >> > > > > >> > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. > > > >> > > > > >> > I PITY YOU. > > > >> > > > > >> > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. > > > >> > > > > >> > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead > > > suffer > > > >> > from > > > >> > a complex. > > > >> > > > > >> > God please help my friend. > > > >> > > > > >> > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > > > >> > > > > >> > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >> > >wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > Dear Aditya, > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for > > advertising > > > >> Baba > > > >> > > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. > But > > > you > > > >> > have > > > >> > > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes > > here? > > > How > > > >> > > much > > > >> > > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get > to > > > >> spread > > > >> > > Ramdev's message? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this > quack > > > of a > > > >> > guy > > > >> > > who had filed an application in the supreme court against > > > >> > decriminalisation > > > >> > > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying > > that > > > you > > > >> > > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using > > Baba > > > >> > Ramdev > > > >> > > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on > > this > > > >> > > reader's > > > >> > > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted > > > attacks > > > >> > on > > > >> > > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here > > and > > > i > > > >> > > request his/her intervention on this issue. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > -anupam > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Dear Anupam > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to > > > conclusions > > > >> > > about > > > >> > > > a > > > >> > > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial > proof > > or > > > >> > > argument > > > >> > > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with > him, > > > that > > > >> is > > > >> > > an > > > >> > > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature > in > > > >> > > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving > > to > > > >> > > millions > > > >> > > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, > events > > in > > > >> > > > different > > > >> > > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of > > > doing > > > >> > Yoga. > > > >> > > > It > > > >> > > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, > if > > at > > > >> all > > > >> > > you > > > >> > > > have capability of studying the positive change you should > know. > > > Even > > > >> > if > > > >> > > he > > > >> > > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you > so > > > much > > > >> ? > > > >> > It > > > >> > > > is > > > >> > > > a very right step. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, > it > > is > > > >> > > service > > > >> > > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of > people > > > trust > > > >> > > him. > > > >> > > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care > of > > > your > > > >> > > > health. > > > >> > > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even > > > >> confirming > > > >> > > my > > > >> > > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. > > > This > > > >> is > > > >> > > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. > > > Pathetic > > > >> > of > > > >> > > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization > is > > a > > > >> very > > > >> > > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but > > > there > > > >> are > > > >> > > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be > > legal. > > > >> Not > > > >> > > just > > > >> > > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You > > > can't > > > >> > bring > > > >> > > > in > > > >> > > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a > > few > > > >> > > hundred > > > >> > > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday > > > every > > > >> > year. > > > >> > > I > > > >> > > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and > > > >> compassion. > > > >> > > They > > > >> > > > are just like any other Human being. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of > > > ignorance. > > > >> > > Either > > > >> > > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else > > you > > > >> are > > > >> > > just > > > >> > > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in > > the > > > >> > > Supreme > > > >> > > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the > > same. > > > >> > Don't > > > >> > > be > > > >> > > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file > another > > > >> > petition > > > >> > > if > > > >> > > > you really feel about the issue. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk > > about > > > >> your > > > >> > > > arrogance more than the original issue. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > love > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > _________________________________________ > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > >> _________________________________________ > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > 0091 9810522986 > > > http://aryakrishnan.blogspot.com > > > www.bookport.in > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 18:49:41 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:49:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907110619h338df601i9e24628604f56f8e@mail.gmail.com> Anupam You, to my surprise are contradicting yourself in the abusive mails directed at me. For last many mails you start with 'Nothing more to add' and then go on with your childish tirade. My mails to others on the list were for different issues and you need not compare them with mails directed at you. When you direct dirt at me, you will only get dirt in reply. You may enjoy dirt alone now.. as you can't take, understand or observe other arguments. You can't absorb an opposition argument. You just can't. Go through your mails. You initiated a tirade against Baba Ramdev without any evidence, which you continue to even now. I can't agree to it just like that. Spread the tirade in your bed room, not here Mr. Chakravartty. Nothing doing. Rumours will remain rumours. I have had discussions in the past here in the list and other forums. But you chose to jump to conclusions without any base. Stay happy. Imaginary world that you are living in. Your mails sound as threatning now. Don't worry YOU WIN... I finally end this chain which might be toruring many in the list. Baba Ramdev stays as a Yoga Guru with millions of followers. Section 377 IPC stays... so do I and Mr. Chakravartty. God Bless. On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 6:15 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Aditya, > > Nothing more to add to your understanding that's what i meant. i mean even > if i do, your mind is in such a state that it cannot accept these > arguments. > are u also a fan of asaram bapu and ashok jadeja? you have addressed many > other respected readers in similar ways not just me. so in case you are > thinking that by engaging in ad hominem attacks on other readers you can > control debates, it is completely wrong. this is what i mean when i say > that > u need to understand. personally, i have nothing against u or baba ramdev. > i > will be honest about what got me into this argument. for some reason, you > used: > > "@ Inder 'Converted' Salim. Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba > Ramdev bless you.Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help > Hindus. It helps. Homosexuals too. Just everybody. Hope the DESI dosage > helps your case." > > Frankly, since im a subscriber to this list, it pains to see the way you > talk like this. that's the precise reason why i got into this debate. else > i > dont even want to comment on something as some quack, which he is, since > his > cures are yet to be approved by the scientists. i always knew that since > you > can these things to inder today, you are quite capable of saying things to > others who is not following your line of arguing. i dont care which shivir > you attend of thursdays or which books do you read. its your life and you > are responsible. this i say, when on many i have had interesting > conversations with other list leaders, who were vehemently opposed to my > ideas and vice versa. however, there was a line of arguing. > > it is this understanding that i was referring, which unfortunately is not > happening here. > > -anupam > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > Certainly it is dada. I turned to such pathetic language, b'coz that is > > what > > you understand best. It is working as the sarai list members can see. > > > > Your tone towards Baba Ramdev in last many mails, without credible > > eveidence > > speaks of your maturity. > > > > Nothing more to add. You said it.. > > > > love > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:27 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > you last email shows your maturity in understanding any issue. its been > > > exposed. its upto the reader to decide. > > > i have nothing to add. and yeah calling me a cry baby is helping too > much > > > :) > > > > > > -anupam > > > > > > On 7/11/09, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan wrote: > > > > > > > See Devdutt Pattanaik's and other's response. > > > > > > > > "Baba's understanding of the body is very different," says Dr > > > > Pattanaik. "He is a very good yoga instructor. But if yoga could cure > > > > everything, why has it not cured his squint? Does he not consider it > > > > to be a problem?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/10/yoga-helped-many-accept-their-sexual-orientation.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul< > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > > > ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had > > enough > > > of > > > > > tension. > > > > > > > > > > How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You seem > > to > > > be > > > > > suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your > poor > > > > mental > > > > > health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. > > > > > > > > > > My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology always > > > > screams > > > > > against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your > > > > information. > > > > > You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred and > > > > rumours. > > > > > That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these > silly > > > and > > > > > lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without > criminalization. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is easy > > > > english. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on the > > > > streets > > > > > of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. > Its > > > > time > > > > > you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an opposite > > > view. > > > > It > > > > > won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I > said > > > > > earlier. > > > > > > > > > > yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors > > after > > > > > prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian > Society. > > > You > > > > > want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. > > > > > > > > > > I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you > whose > > > > > arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these > > mails > > > to > > > > > make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz > of > > > your > > > > > narrow minded approach!! > > > > > > > > > > You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' > > > remarks. > > > > You > > > > > have lost it badly. > > > > > > > > > > You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, > > > against > > > > a > > > > > particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing > more. > > > I'm > > > > > honestly feeling sorry for you. > > > > > > > > > > BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in > > > spreading > > > > > the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You > will > > > just > > > > > abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. > Outside > > > you > > > > are > > > > > a scared rat. > > > > > > > > > > You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be > satisfied > > > in > > > > > your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain and > > > your > > > > > rumours against the saint. > > > > > > > > > > God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Aditya, > > > > >> > > > > >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of the > > > > brinda > > > > >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba Ramdev > > can > > > > >> exist > > > > >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you > say > > > > that > > > > >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your > intentions > > > my > > > > >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont > wish > > to > > > > >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can > > derive > > > > >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been able > > to > > > > >> answer > > > > >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept on > > > > harping > > > > >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i guess > > > people > > > > >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the > > sanctity > > > of > > > > >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i will > > take > > > > it > > > > >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions > of > > > > delhi? > > > > >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for > you. > > > > take > > > > >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people > like > > > > ramdev > > > > >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like ramdev > > and > > > i > > > > >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga > into > > a > > > > >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been > > > > arrested, > > > > >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, > soon > > > > >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > > > > >> > > > > >> -with best wishes > > > > >> > > > > >> anupam > > > > >> > > > > >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Dear Anupam > > > > >> > > > > > >> > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to > > counter > > > > >> truth. > > > > >> > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get > > me > > > ? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news > > > article > > > > >> which > > > > >> > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've > > > serious > > > > >> > doubts > > > > >> > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda > Karat's > > of > > > > the > > > > >> > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television > > or > > > > was > > > > >> it > > > > >> > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. > > Don't > > > be > > > > an > > > > >> > apologist Sir. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if > > > > >> something > > > > >> > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you > > failed > > > > >> > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In > that > > > > case, > > > > >> I > > > > >> > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such > my > > > > >> friend. > > > > >> > I > > > > >> > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and > > get > > > > you > > > > >> > some new ideas of your own. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM > > > > CHAKRAVARTTY. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so > > > called > > > > >> > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get carried > > > away. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve > > > > >> anything. > > > > >> > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a > > mockery > > > > of > > > > >> > whatever argument you have. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST > IT. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I PITY YOU. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of > help. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead > > > > suffer > > > > >> > from > > > > >> > a complex. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > God please help my friend. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 19:05:06 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:05:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <6353c690907110619h338df601i9e24628604f56f8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110619h338df601i9e24628604f56f8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907110635n3ec008f8s298c32ac460e703@mail.gmail.com> There is major fallacy that you commit all the time by saying you Win. who is arguing here to win Aditya? please tell me. show me one person. is it you by any chance? i have not abused you per se, but your ideas about promoting a quack, merely because this quack called baba ramdev enjoys popularity while his medicines have not been approved by any of medical council in india. so if my brother falls sick tomorrow because of the medicine by this quack after blindly believing like you, i dont even know what laws exist to protect his life and get a compensation. i dont even know if a general physician would treat him after that. i am not arguing to win. your proof so far about baba ramdev is based on the fact that thousands have been cured, which is absolutely irrational in the sense tomorrow i can say thousands are saying Micheal Jackson's death is a media hype, he is actually alive, so am i supposed to believe it? you see for yourself and then put forward your case. ten thousand people may be right about what they are saying. using an ad baculum argument to forcibly extract admissions from people is not what i believe in. this may the preferred mode used by other members here. I dont see Baba Ramdev as a competent person with a legitimate argument to quash the order of Delhi High Court on Section 377 in the supreme court and my reasons have been stated here. thanks anupam On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Anupam > > You, to my surprise are contradicting yourself in the abusive mails > directed > at me. For last many mails you start with 'Nothing more to add' and then go > on with your childish tirade. > > My mails to others on the list were for different issues and you need not > compare them with mails directed at you. When you direct dirt at me, you > will only get dirt in reply. You may enjoy dirt alone now.. as you can't > take, understand or observe other arguments. > > You can't absorb an opposition argument. You just can't. Go through your > mails. You initiated a tirade against Baba Ramdev without any evidence, > which you continue to even now. I can't agree to it just like that. Spread > the tirade in your bed room, not here Mr. Chakravartty. Nothing doing. > Rumours will remain rumours. > > I have had discussions in the past here in the list and other forums. But > you chose to jump to conclusions without any base. Stay happy. Imaginary > world that you are living in. > > Your mails sound as threatning now. Don't worry YOU WIN... > > I finally end this chain which might be toruring many in the list. > > Baba Ramdev stays as a Yoga Guru with millions of followers. Section 377 > IPC > stays... so do I and Mr. Chakravartty. > > God Bless. > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 6:15 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Aditya, > > > > Nothing more to add to your understanding that's what i meant. i mean > even > > if i do, your mind is in such a state that it cannot accept these > > arguments. > > are u also a fan of asaram bapu and ashok jadeja? you have addressed many > > other respected readers in similar ways not just me. so in case you are > > thinking that by engaging in ad hominem attacks on other readers you can > > control debates, it is completely wrong. this is what i mean when i say > > that > > u need to understand. personally, i have nothing against u or baba > ramdev. > > i > > will be honest about what got me into this argument. for some reason, you > > used: > > > > "@ Inder 'Converted' Salim. Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May > Baba > > Ramdev bless you.Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only > help > > Hindus. It helps. Homosexuals too. Just everybody. Hope the DESI dosage > > helps your case." > > > > Frankly, since im a subscriber to this list, it pains to see the way you > > talk like this. that's the precise reason why i got into this debate. > else > > i > > dont even want to comment on something as some quack, which he is, since > > his > > cures are yet to be approved by the scientists. i always knew that since > > you > > can these things to inder today, you are quite capable of saying things > to > > others who is not following your line of arguing. i dont care which > shivir > > you attend of thursdays or which books do you read. its your life and you > > are responsible. this i say, when on many i have had interesting > > conversations with other list leaders, who were vehemently opposed to my > > ideas and vice versa. however, there was a line of arguing. > > > > it is this understanding that i was referring, which unfortunately is not > > happening here. > > > > -anupam > > > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > Certainly it is dada. I turned to such pathetic language, b'coz that is > > > what > > > you understand best. It is working as the sarai list members can see. > > > > > > Your tone towards Baba Ramdev in last many mails, without credible > > > eveidence > > > speaks of your maturity. > > > > > > Nothing more to add. You said it.. > > > > > > love > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:27 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > you last email shows your maturity in understanding any issue. its > been > > > > exposed. its upto the reader to decide. > > > > i have nothing to add. and yeah calling me a cry baby is helping too > > much > > > > :) > > > > > > > > -anupam > > > > > > > > On 7/11/09, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan wrote: > > > > > > > > > See Devdutt Pattanaik's and other's response. > > > > > > > > > > "Baba's understanding of the body is very different," says Dr > > > > > Pattanaik. "He is a very good yoga instructor. But if yoga could > cure > > > > > everything, why has it not cured his squint? Does he not consider > it > > > > > to be a problem?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/10/yoga-helped-many-accept-their-sexual-orientation.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul< > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > ...awwww CRY BABY Anupam Chakravartty. Looks like you have had > > > enough > > > > of > > > > > > tension. > > > > > > > > > > > > How just was calling me a publicity agent of Baba Ramdev ? You > seem > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > suffering deep inside mentally. I can just symapthise with your > > poor > > > > > mental > > > > > > health. Childish abuses will lead you nowhere kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > My intensions are crystal clear boss. Your certain ideology > always > > > > > screams > > > > > > against the great Baba Ramdev. That makes me say that for your > > > > > information. > > > > > > You may cry and scream out on reader;s list by spreading hatred > and > > > > > rumours. > > > > > > That will just be sent to trash bin of all members. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not running from anything. Infact you are by putting these > > silly > > > > and > > > > > > lame remarks. I want Section 377 IPC to stay without > > criminalization. > > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > as simple as that. Does something enter your mind now. This is > easy > > > > > english. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions. Most of the time I'm on ground. on > the > > > > > streets > > > > > > of Delhi and other cities, as part of my job and as my hobby too. > > Its > > > > > time > > > > > > you become a bit more practical in life, understanding an > opposite > > > > view. > > > > > It > > > > > > won't make you feel low in anyway, you will emerge stronger as I > > said > > > > > > earlier. > > > > > > > > > > > > yes Haridwar is a beautiful place, it has lakhs of more visitors > > > after > > > > > > prominence of Baba Ramdev who is doing service to the Indian > > Society. > > > > You > > > > > > want to be ignorant about it, that is your wish. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't consider this a debate anyway. Forget a debate with you > > whose > > > > > > arguments are based on rumours and lame jokes. I wrote all these > > > mails > > > > to > > > > > > make you understand your reality. How much you are suffering 'coz > > of > > > > your > > > > > > narrow minded approach!! > > > > > > > > > > > > You should have been arrested for such 'insane' and 'illetrate' > > > > remarks. > > > > > You > > > > > > have lost it badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can continue with your tirade against a particular religion, > > > > against > > > > > a > > > > > > particular saint. That is what you can achieve in life. Nothing > > more. > > > > I'm > > > > > > honestly feeling sorry for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > BABA RAMDEV will remain there and touch the sky with success in > > > > spreading > > > > > > the message of Yoga. People like you can't do him any harm. You > > will > > > > just > > > > > > abuse him inside your living rooms and inside your desktops. > > Outside > > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > a scared rat. > > > > > > > > > > > > You will never go out of Sarai List and your e-mail box. Be > > satisfied > > > > in > > > > > > your ignorant and arrogant world. Hope this ends this mad chain > and > > > > your > > > > > > rumours against the saint. > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless you. Hope you don't work for amazon.com now. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:04 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Aditya, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Looks like you cant take the pain anymore. calling a member of > the > > > > > brinda > > > > > >> brigade. you know opposition to a quack, a whacko, and Baba > Ramdev > > > can > > > > > >> exist > > > > > >> without being aligned to any particular ideology. what makes you > > say > > > > > that > > > > > >> section 377 stays in the end of the mail? this shows your > > intentions > > > > my > > > > > >> friend. running from it is not helping you much. anyway i dont > > wish > > > to > > > > > >> continue a debate with a irrational person such as you. you can > > > derive > > > > > >> whatever conclusions u want to derive because you havent been > able > > > to > > > > > >> answer > > > > > >> any of the questions which were posed in the list, but you kept > on > > > > > harping > > > > > >> about this babaji of yours. hardwar is a beautiful place, i > guess > > > > people > > > > > >> like ramdev and their shivirs are an eyesore and against the > > > sanctity > > > > of > > > > > >> that place. and yeah suggestion about me visiting hardwar, i > will > > > take > > > > > it > > > > > >> seriously...but why dont u move out the drawing room discussions > > of > > > > > delhi? > > > > > >> see for yourself and come back write. that's more educative for > > you. > > > > > take > > > > > >> care and next time be strong in what you argue. dont use people > > like > > > > > ramdev > > > > > >> to further your cause. my business is to expose quacks like > ramdev > > > and > > > > i > > > > > >> will keep doing so even if u dont like it. ramdev has made yoga > > into > > > a > > > > > >> commodity, which is where i have a problem. he should have been > > > > > arrested, > > > > > >> but with such cultural vanguards as such the saffron bandwagon, > > soon > > > > > >> heritage of india would be up for sale in amazon.com > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -with best wishes > > > > > >> > > > > > >> anupam > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Dear Anupam > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to > > > counter > > > > > >> truth. > > > > > >> > Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you > get > > > me > > > > ? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news > > > > article > > > > > >> which > > > > > >> > you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've > > > > serious > > > > > >> > doubts > > > > > >> > over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda > > Karat's > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > >> > world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national > television > > > or > > > > > was > > > > > >> it > > > > > >> > mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it > ? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. > > > Don't > > > > be > > > > > an > > > > > >> > apologist Sir. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react > if > > > > > >> something > > > > > >> > is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you > > > failed > > > > > >> > yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In > > that > > > > > case, > > > > > >> I > > > > > >> > can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is > such > > my > > > > > >> friend. > > > > > >> > I > > > > > >> > told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you > and > > > get > > > > > you > > > > > >> > some new ideas of your own. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM > > > > > CHAKRAVARTTY. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so > > > > called > > > > > >> > intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. Don't get > carried > > > > away. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't > solve > > > > > >> anything. > > > > > >> > It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a > > > mockery > > > > > of > > > > > >> > whatever argument you have. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST > > IT. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I PITY YOU. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of > > help. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You > instead > > > > > suffer > > > > > >> > from > > > > > >> > a complex. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > God please help my friend. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > regardsAditya Raj Kaul > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 22:26:38 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:26:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Salwa Judum Message-ID: Dear all We have talked about human rights in Iran lately. We have had talks about the same and also about democracy in Kashmir and Palestine as well. We have heard about Kashmiri Pandits too and their view points, so also those of 'Kashmiri Muslims'. We have heard and still hear about the sad plight of the Muslims and the Dalits. We do talk about gays, lesbians, trans-sexuality and bisexuals as well. We talk about Ayodhya, Sri krishna Commission, and all that. And this continues. (It's great to hear so many views frankly speaking) What we probably have forgotten in this endless talk, is about those sections who are the indigenous people of the land called India (not the only indigenous ones necessarily), who have been tortured, maimed, brutalized and punished for no fault of theirs: the tribals. And we have some atrocious movements like the Salwa Judm to look at. Is this the way to fight Naxalites? Since when have common people become the ones to perform functions on behalf of the police? This movement needs to be seriously debated, and if the Article 377 can be decriminalized, this movement which affects a much wider section of people and society, and is resulting in deaths, and even rapes, should be dealt with and pressure must be applied to stop it. Below is an article related to Salwa Judum, in the recent issue of Tehelka. Hope to see views coming out on it. Regards Rakesh *The Evil That Men Do* *Tribal women claiming rape by Salwa Judum men in Chhattisgarh put a question mark on the NHRC, which rejected their testimonies. Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* *AJIT SAHI* * Editor-at-Large* ** *Assaulted* *Raped Women turned away by the NHRC seek justice* *In the Indian setting, refusal to act on the testimony of the victim of sexual assault in the absence of corroboration as a rule is adding insult to injury. A girl or a woman in the tradition- bound non-permissive society of India would be extremely reluctant even to admit that any incident that is likely to reflect on her chastity had ever occurred… [A rape victim’s testimony] does not require corroboration from any other evidence, including the evidence of a doctor.* *— Supreme Court justices Arijit Pasayat and P Sathasivam, July 2008* FOR DECADES, the Supreme Court of India has cleaved to a rigorous legal standard in cases of rape: the testimony of the victim is enough evidence to launch the prosecution of the accused. Successive judgments over the years have reinforced this position. Thousands of convictions of alleged rapists have been effectively obtained on the basis of victims’ testimonies, with no corroborative evidence sought or offered. Often, the courts have overlooked minor discrepancies in the victims’ accounts, if the main narrative holds up. Jurists and social commentators in India have long argued that, apart from being a most heinous crime against a woman’s person, her rape doubly curses her in the Indian society by imparting her a stigma that no other crime matches. That is why criminal investigation processes that the police must follow, as well as the judicial procedures prescribed when charges of rape arise, are unambiguous. This is best illustrated in the case of Hindi film actor Shiney Ahuja, who was arrested last month in Mumbai when his maidservant accused him of raping her. Ahuja has been denied bail, and rightly so, for his right to seek justice shall arise at the trial and not before or outside it. What happens when the victims are destitute tribal women with no access to police, judiciary, media? But what happens when rape becomes a brutal tool of class oppression in a wider social, political and economic war that men wage against one another, the raped women merely the pawns on their chessboard, the act of rape itself a side story, a cold-blooded strategy to terrorise an entire population into submission? What happens when the victims of rape are some of India’s most destitute tribal women, who live in virtually unreachable forests in subhuman conditions; who have absolutely zero access to the police, the judiciary, the media; whose verdant lands the mighty industrialists covet because they hold in their womb some of India’s richest mineral resources? What happens when those accused of rape are the hired guns of a dubious state-backed militia that is the frontline in one of the world’s most brutal civil wars? What happens when the Indian State pivots this war against deeply entrenched Maoist insurgents on a take-no-prisoners approach, because unless the Maoists are killed off and millions of tribal people removed from their forests, hills and fields, corporate India won’t be able to claim the bounties of their lands? What happens when it is abundantly clear that accepting the charges of rape from such women would be very dangerous indeed because that step just might begin to unravel this barbaric anti-people militia, bringing an end to its unchecked reign of terror? THIS IS the heartrending story of Chhattisgarh, and all the above questions have only one answer: the Indian State cannot afford to honestly investigate these women’s charges of rape and secure them justice. Therefore, it must be forced to do so. In the following pages, readers of TEHELKAwill find graphic gut-wrenching testimonies of some tribal women of Chhattisgarh describing how they were brutalised by the men of the Salwa Judum, the tribal militia that the state government sponsored four years ago and has since terrorised tens of thousands of innocent tribal people, burning their houses down, forcing them to abandon their villages where they had lived for generations, to move into squalid government- controlled “camps”. We traveled deep in the state’s highly forested southern region known as Bastar, and located six women who were raped by the men of the Salwa Judum [literally, peace movement]. We also spoke to one man who saw his sister raped and then found her killed; their father, too, was killed then. The women and the man we met voluntarily gave their testimonies to us, which we have recorded on tape. Most rapes pertain to the period following the setting up of the Salwa Judum in 2005. But the most disturbing part of this story came last year when the Supreme Court asked the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) to go to Chhattisgarh and investigate the charges of murder, rape, pillage and arson brought against those men of the Salwa Judum who have been hired and armed by the state police as Special Police Officers (SPOs). The report that an NHRC ‘fact-finding’ team wrote is deeply troubling in that it blindly toes the police and government line. The NHRC report is deeply troubling as it blindly toes the police version. It absolves the accused, too Created by Parliament in 1993 as an autonomous statutory human rights watchdog, the NHRC has long pretended to be the champion of the underdog. Log on to its website today, and you will be justified to feel a gush of relief at the rather selfcongratulatory headlines about jobs well done – “NHRC takes suo moto cognisance of the alleged fake encounter in Uttarakhand and recommends CBI inquiry”; “NHRC takes the railways police IG to task as cops throw pregnant woman from moving train”; “NHRC orders the payment of three lakh rupees monetary relief in a case of death in police custody”. And yet, the NHRC refused to accept the testimonies of these tribal women of Chhattisgarh that unequivocally detail how SPOs brutally raped them. Instead of making the legally and morally sound recommendation that the state government launch the prosecution of the accused, the NHRC wrote: “During the enquiry of some specific allegations, the enquiry team also did not come across any case of rape which could be substantiated.” Shockingly, the NHRC happily absolved the accused too: “The allegations of rapes levelled against the SPOs and security forces were not substantiated during the enquiry.” The most stunning fact, of course, is the NHRC’s rejection of the testimonies of five women from a single village – Pottenar in Bijapur district – who deposed before it. Says the report: “The matter was personally enquired from each of the five girls by a lady IPS officer of the team. During the enquiry, it was observed that there were many inconsistencies in the versions of alleged victims, in the petitions given by them, as well as in the statements of the alleged victims. These inconsistencies were with regard to the number of rape victims, number of SPOs who took them away from the camp, number of SPOs who actually committed the act and their identity and the accompanying circumstances.” Shockingly, the report goes on to say: “All the victims stated that none of them reported this matter to their parents or relatives or anyone else in the camp or to the police.” Because the women raped by policemen did not report the rape to the police, their testimonies are suspect? So just when did the NHRC convert itself into a trial court? Just when did it become the job of the NHRC to summarily dismiss, without proper investigation, the charges of rape directly brought forward by the alleged victims of that crime? The chicanery at the NHRC began as it formed the investigative team. Acting on a lawsuit from activist-lawyer Nandini Sundar against the Salwa Judum, the Supreme Court said: “…We feel that in view of the serious allegations relating to violation of human rights by Naxalites and Salwa Judum and the living conditions in the refugee settlement colonies, it will be appropriate if the NHRC examines/verifies these allegations... We leave it to the NHRC to appoint an appropriate fact-finding Committee with such members as it deems fit...” The NHRC was asked to probe charges also against Salwa Judum. But it spoke mostly to Judum supporters So what did the NHRC do? To investigate charges of rape against Special Police Officers who are fully backed by the state police and the government, the NHRC decided to send a 16- member team — made up of exclusively policemen and women! This included three IPS officers, four Deputy Superintendents of Police, seven inspectors and one constable. Just why would the country’s premier human rights watchdog not include even one well-respected independent social activist in its fact-finding team? (The team head, former DIG Sudhir Chowdhary, refused to talk about this. “I have nothing to add to what is already in the report,” he told TEHELKA.) IRONICALLY, THE NHRC investigation in Chhattisgarh was launched at the behest of complainants Nandini Sundar and others, because they claimed that the Salwa Judum was brutalising innocent tribal people of Chhattisgarh. Yet, an overwhelming part of the NHRC report is based on the testimonies of people inside the Salwa Judum camps – all, therefore, predictably speaking in support of the Salwa Judum. An overwhelming number of documents and conversations relied upon are with the state police – whose very conduct the team had gone to investigate. The police and/or other security agencies accompanied the NHRC team’s “independent” visits to the villages to investigate allegations of police excesses. The petitioners complained that, once, after the NHRC enquiry team had visited a village, “the Salwa Judum leaders subsequently went there and issued death threats…” So how did the NHRC investigate this complaint? It sought a report from the state’s Director-General of Police! In fact, the entire NHRC report reads like a primary school textbook that pares down everything to a simple black-andwhite narrative, the Salwa Judum overwhelmingly white – and hardly guilty of any excesses, absolved of all charges of rape and murder – and the Naxals the blackest of the blacks, the grossest violators of human rights. The 16-member NHRC team toured the region a total of only two weeks. But its report reads like a sociological treatise waxing eloquent on the history of the Naxal movement, offering innumerable sweeping statements without any piece of evidence that they may have collected during their two-week investigations. Shockingly, the NHRC report says: “From the interaction with the villagers it also appears that many of the tribal girls were sexually exploited by the Naxalites.” And yet, the NHRC did not move to document the testimonies of such girls. At least one of the petitioners, former CPIMLA Manish Kunjum, says the NHRC report quotes him wrongly that he “admitted during interaction with the enquiry team that the policies followed by the Naxalites were responsible for the spontaneous outburst of the tribals”. “I never said anything of this sort,” Kunjam told TEHELKA. “They are exaggerating my view.” All is not lost, though. On June 16, 2009, some of these victims saw a glimmer of hope as Amrit Kerkatta, a local judicial magistrate in a Dantewada sub-district, began recording the testimonies of six rape victims after receiving their petitions. On July 3, he heard six witnesses, one for each of the victims. The judge has now fixed the next hearing for July 17. Sudha Bharadwaj, a lawyer at the Bilaspur High Court in Chhattisgarh who is representing these women, told TEHELKA: “The magistrate has taken the longest possible route to make doubly sure that the testimonies of the women are on record. It is now up to him to prepare the charge-sheet — which the police should have done in the normal course — and commit the case to trial.” If indeed the accused are finally tried on the basis of the testimonies of the raped women, then the lawyers representing the victims will certainly press these words of Supreme Court justices Pasayat and Sathasivam: “It is an irony that while we are celebrating woman’s rights in all spheres, we show little or no concern for her honour. It is a sad reflection on the attitude of indifference of society towards the violation of human dignity of the victims of sex crimes. The socio-economic status, religion, race, caste or creed of the accused or the victim are irrelevant considerations in the sentencing policy. Protection of society and deterring the criminal are the avowed objects of law and that is required to be achieved by imposing appropriate sentence. “We must remember that a rapist not only violates the victim’s privacy and personal integrity but inevitably causes serious psychological as well as physical harm. Rape is not merely a physical assault — it is often destructive of the whole personality of the victim. A murderer destroys the body of his victim, a rapist degrades the very soul of the helpless female. “A prosecutrix of a sex offence cannot be put on par with an accomplice. She is in fact a victim of the crime... What is necessary is that the court must be conscious of the fact that it is dealing with the evidence of a person who is interested in the outcome of the charge levelled by her.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* ajit at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 28, Dated July 18, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Historic judgement by Delhi High Court decriminalizes gay sex Read>> Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University. By Tara Menon Liberhan Report Filed 16 Years Post Deadline By Sabika Muzaffar Nirupama Rao Appointed Next Foreign Secretary By Shruti Chakraborty More Stories>> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 12 03:13:22 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:13:22 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Salwa Judum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <464195.91694.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Ironically, giving dtails of rape by a woman out of it should be considered of the pre-, on and posst rape trauma she has been encountering, So haow many took her and how many raped her, while it could be possible some were just standing by, the lady IPS worker and not ex-IPS proves it all, besides it is a case of Gang Rape, multiple penetrations and not a single penetration, a sense of purity lost to public orgy. These women, who have no place in this civilised society, having been raped by the armed forces, having restricted choice to marry and virtually being oogled and even groped as sex objects,much so after rape, shall live on continuously under it's stigma, within this rule of law. For the ignorant and the pervert, their world ends here. ________________________________ From: Rakesh Iyer To: sarai list Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 10:26:38 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Salwa Judum Dear all We have talked about human rights in Iran lately. We have had talks about the same and also about democracy in Kashmir and Palestine as well. We have heard about Kashmiri Pandits too and their view points, so also those of 'Kashmiri Muslims'. We have heard and still hear about the sad plight of the Muslims and the Dalits. We do talk about gays, lesbians, trans-sexuality and bisexuals as well. We talk about Ayodhya, Sri krishna Commission, and all that. And this continues. (It's great to hear so many views frankly speaking) What we probably have forgotten in this endless talk, is about those sections who are the indigenous people of the land called India (not the only indigenous ones necessarily), who have been tortured, maimed, brutalized and punished for no fault of theirs: the tribals. And we have some atrocious movements like the Salwa Judm to look at. Is this the way to fight Naxalites? Since when have common people become the ones to perform functions on behalf of the police? This movement needs to be seriously debated, and if the Article 377 can be decriminalized, this movement which affects a much wider section of people and society, and is resulting in deaths, and even rapes, should be dealt with and pressure must be applied to stop it. Below is an article related to Salwa Judum, in the recent issue of Tehelka. Hope to see views coming out on it. Regards Rakesh *The Evil That Men Do* *Tribal women claiming rape by Salwa Judum men in Chhattisgarh put a question mark on the NHRC, which rejected their testimonies. Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* *AJIT SAHI* * Editor-at-Large* **  *Assaulted* *Raped Women turned away by the NHRC seek justice* *In the Indian setting, refusal to act on the testimony of the victim of sexual assault in the absence of corroboration as a rule is adding insult to injury. A girl or a woman in the tradition- bound non-permissive society of India would be extremely reluctant even to admit that any incident that is likely to reflect on her chastity had ever occurred… [A rape victim’s testimony] does not require corroboration from any other evidence, including the evidence of a doctor.* *— Supreme Court justices Arijit Pasayat and P Sathasivam, July 2008* FOR DECADES, the Supreme Court of India has cleaved to a rigorous legal standard in cases of rape: the testimony of the victim is enough evidence to launch the prosecution of the accused. Successive judgments over the years have reinforced this position. Thousands of convictions of alleged rapists have been effectively obtained on the basis of victims’ testimonies, with no corroborative evidence sought or offered. Often, the courts have overlooked minor discrepancies in the victims’ accounts, if the main narrative holds up. Jurists and social commentators in India have long argued that, apart from being a most heinous crime against a woman’s person, her rape doubly curses her in the Indian society by imparting her a stigma that no other crime matches. That is why criminal investigation processes that the police must follow, as well as the judicial procedures prescribed when charges of rape arise, are unambiguous. This is best illustrated in the case of Hindi film actor Shiney Ahuja, who was arrested last month in Mumbai when his maidservant accused him of raping her. Ahuja has been denied bail, and rightly so, for his right to seek justice shall arise at the trial and not before or outside it. What happens when the victims are destitute tribal women with no access to police, judiciary, media? But what happens when rape becomes a brutal tool of class oppression in a wider social, political and economic war that men wage against one another, the raped women merely the pawns on their chessboard, the act of rape itself a side story, a cold-blooded strategy to terrorise an entire population into submission? What happens when the victims of rape are some of India’s most destitute tribal women, who live in virtually unreachable forests in subhuman conditions; who have absolutely zero access to the police, the judiciary, the media; whose verdant lands the mighty industrialists covet because they hold in their womb some of India’s richest mineral resources? What happens when those accused of rape are the hired guns of a dubious state-backed militia that is the frontline in one of the world’s most brutal civil wars? What happens when the Indian State pivots this war against deeply entrenched Maoist insurgents on a take-no-prisoners approach, because unless the Maoists are killed off and millions of tribal people removed from their forests, hills and fields, corporate India won’t be able to claim the bounties of their lands? What happens when it is abundantly clear that accepting the charges of rape from such women would be very dangerous indeed because that step just might begin to unravel this barbaric anti-people militia, bringing an end to its unchecked reign of terror? THIS IS the heartrending story of Chhattisgarh, and all the above questions have only one answer: the Indian State cannot afford to honestly investigate these women’s charges of rape and secure them justice. Therefore, it must be forced to do so. In the following pages, readers of TEHELKAwill find graphic gut-wrenching testimonies of some tribal women of Chhattisgarh describing how they were brutalised by the men of the Salwa Judum, the tribal militia that the state government sponsored four years ago and has since terrorised tens of thousands of innocent tribal people, burning their houses down, forcing them to abandon their villages where they had lived for generations, to move into squalid government- controlled “camps”. We traveled deep in the state’s highly forested southern region known as Bastar, and located six women who were raped by the men of the Salwa Judum [literally, peace movement]. We also spoke to one man who saw his sister raped and then found her killed; their father, too, was killed then. The women and the man we met voluntarily gave their testimonies to us, which we have recorded on tape. Most rapes pertain to the period following the setting up of the Salwa Judum in 2005. But the most disturbing part of this story came last year when the Supreme Court asked the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) to go to Chhattisgarh and investigate the charges of murder, rape, pillage and arson brought against those men of the Salwa Judum who have been hired and armed by the state police as Special Police Officers (SPOs). The report that an NHRC ‘fact-finding’ team wrote is deeply troubling in that it blindly toes the police and government line. The NHRC report is deeply troubling as it blindly toes the police version. It absolves the accused, too Created by Parliament in 1993 as an autonomous statutory human rights watchdog, the NHRC has long pretended to be the champion of the underdog. Log on to its website today, and you will be justified to feel a gush of relief at the rather selfcongratulatory headlines about jobs well done – “NHRC takes suo moto cognisance of the alleged fake encounter in Uttarakhand and recommends CBI inquiry”; “NHRC takes the railways police IG to task as cops throw pregnant woman from moving train”; “NHRC orders the payment of three lakh rupees monetary relief in a case of death in police custody”. And yet, the NHRC refused to accept the testimonies of these tribal women of Chhattisgarh that unequivocally detail how SPOs brutally raped them. Instead of making the legally and morally sound recommendation that the state government launch the prosecution of the accused, the NHRC wrote: “During the enquiry of some specific allegations, the enquiry team also did not come across any case of rape which could be substantiated.” Shockingly, the NHRC happily absolved the accused too: “The allegations of rapes levelled against the SPOs and security forces were not substantiated during the enquiry.” The most stunning fact, of course, is the NHRC’s rejection of the testimonies of five women from a single village – Pottenar in Bijapur district – who deposed before it. Says the report: “The matter was personally enquired from each of the five girls by a lady IPS officer of the team. During the enquiry, it was observed that there were many inconsistencies in the versions of alleged victims, in the petitions given by them, as well as in the statements of the alleged victims. These inconsistencies were with regard to the number of rape victims, number of SPOs who took them away from the camp, number of SPOs who actually committed the act and their identity and the accompanying circumstances.” Shockingly, the report goes on to say: “All the victims stated that none of them reported this matter to their parents or relatives or anyone else in the camp or to the police.” Because the women raped by policemen did not report the rape to the police, their testimonies are suspect? So just when did the NHRC convert itself into a trial court? Just when did it become the job of the NHRC to summarily dismiss, without proper investigation, the charges of rape directly brought forward by the alleged victims of that crime? The chicanery at the NHRC began as it formed the investigative team. Acting on a lawsuit from activist-lawyer Nandini Sundar against the Salwa Judum, the Supreme Court said: “…We feel that in view of the serious allegations relating to violation of human rights by Naxalites and Salwa Judum and the living conditions in the refugee settlement colonies, it will be appropriate if the NHRC examines/verifies these allegations... We leave it to the NHRC to appoint an appropriate fact-finding Committee with such members as it deems fit....” The NHRC was asked to probe charges also against Salwa Judum. But it spoke mostly to Judum supporters So what did the NHRC do? To investigate charges of rape against Special Police Officers who are fully backed by the state police and the government, the NHRC decided to send a 16- member team — made up of exclusively policemen and women! This included three IPS officers, four Deputy Superintendents of Police, seven inspectors and one constable. Just why would the country’s premier human rights watchdog not include even one well-respected independent social activist in its fact-finding team? (The team head, former DIG Sudhir Chowdhary, refused to talk about this. “I have nothing to add to what is already in the report,” he told TEHELKA.) IRONICALLY, THE NHRC investigation in Chhattisgarh was launched at the behest of complainants Nandini Sundar and others, because they claimed that the Salwa Judum was brutalising innocent tribal people of Chhattisgarh. Yet, an overwhelming part of the NHRC report is based on the testimonies of people inside the Salwa Judum camps – all, therefore, predictably speaking in support of the Salwa Judum. An overwhelming number of documents and conversations relied upon are with the state police – whose very conduct the team had gone to investigate. The police and/or other security agencies accompanied the NHRC team’s “independent” visits to the villages to investigate allegations of police excesses. The petitioners complained that, once, after the NHRC enquiry team had visited a village, “the Salwa Judum leaders subsequently went there and issued death threats…” So how did the NHRC investigate this complaint? It sought a report from the state’s Director-General of Police! In fact, the entire NHRC report reads like a primary school textbook that pares down everything to a simple black-andwhite narrative, the Salwa Judum overwhelmingly white – and hardly guilty of any excesses, absolved of all charges of rape and murder – and the Naxals the blackest of the blacks, the grossest violators of human rights. The 16-member NHRC team toured the region a total of only two weeks. But its report reads like a sociological treatise waxing eloquent on the history of the Naxal movement, offering innumerable sweeping statements without any piece of evidence that they may have collected during their two-week investigations. Shockingly, the NHRC report says: “From the interaction with the villagers it also appears that many of the tribal girls were sexually exploited by the Naxalites.” And yet, the NHRC did not move to document the testimonies of such girls. At least one of the petitioners, former CPIMLA Manish Kunjum, says the NHRC report quotes him wrongly that he “admitted during interaction with the enquiry team that the policies followed by the Naxalites were responsible for the spontaneous outburst of the tribals”. “I never said anything of this sort,” Kunjam told TEHELKA. “They are exaggerating my view.” All is not lost, though. On June 16, 2009, some of these victims saw a glimmer of hope as Amrit Kerkatta, a local judicial magistrate in a Dantewada sub-district, began recording the testimonies of six rape victims after receiving their petitions. On July 3, he heard six witnesses, one for each of the victims. The judge has now fixed the next hearing for July 17. Sudha Bharadwaj, a lawyer at the Bilaspur High Court in Chhattisgarh who is representing these women, told TEHELKA: “The magistrate has taken the longest possible route to make doubly sure that the testimonies of the women are on record. It is now up to him to prepare the charge-sheet — which the police should have done in the normal course — and commit the case to trial.” If indeed the accused are finally tried on the basis of the testimonies of the raped women, then the lawyers representing the victims will certainly press these words of Supreme Court justices Pasayat and Sathasivam: “It is an irony that while we are celebrating woman’s rights in all spheres, we show little or no concern for her honour. It is a sad reflection on the attitude of indifference of society towards the violation of human dignity of the victims of sex crimes. The socio-economic status, religion, race, caste or creed of the accused or the victim are irrelevant considerations in the sentencing policy. Protection of society and deterring the criminal are the avowed objects of law and that is required to be achieved by imposing appropriate sentence. “We must remember that a rapist not only violates the victim’s privacy and personal integrity but inevitably causes serious psychological as well as physical harm. Rape is not merely a physical assault — it is often destructive of the whole personality of the victim. A murderer destroys the body of his victim, a rapist degrades the very soul of the helpless female. “A prosecutrix of a sex offence cannot be put on par with an accomplice. She is in fact a victim of the crime... What is necessary is that the court must be conscious of the fact that it is dealing with the evidence of a person who is interested in the outcome of the charge levelled by her.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* ajit at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 28, Dated July 18, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story         Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar  Historic judgement by Delhi High Court decriminalizes gay sex Read>> Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University. By Tara Menon Liberhan Report Filed 16 Years Post Deadline By Sabika Muzaffar Nirupama Rao Appointed Next Foreign Secretary By Shruti Chakraborty  More Stories>>       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 12 03:26:15 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:26:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Salwa Judum In-Reply-To: <464195.91694.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <464195.91694.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <959742.64970.qm@web94703.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Public orgy part, what was loss to them is seemingly the rogy of rest of the society, even expression of joys, leave basic ones of mating shall remind them of the ordeal. There should have been more sensitivity by an investigating agency, leave alone filing of reports, by the way could one give the police version of the entire incident. And how NHRC tip-toed it? Could be more dramatic perhaps. ________________________________ From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Sunday, 12 July, 2009 3:13:22 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Salwa Judum Ironically, giving dtails of rape by a woman out of it should be considered of the pre-, on and posst rape trauma she has been encountering, So haow many took her and how many raped her, while it could be possible some were just standing by, the lady IPS worker and not ex-IPS proves it all, besides it is a case of Gang Rape, multiple penetrations and not a single penetration, a sense of purity lost to public orgy. These women, who have no place in this civilised society, having been raped by the armed forces, having restricted choice to marry and virtually being oogled and even groped as sex objects,much so after rape, shall live on continuously under it's stigma, within this rule of law.. For the ignorant and the pervert, their world ends here. ________________________________ From: Rakesh Iyer To: sarai list Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 10:26:38 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Salwa Judum Dear all We have talked about human rights in Iran lately. We have had talks about the same and also about democracy in Kashmir and Palestine as well. We have heard about Kashmiri Pandits too and their view points, so also those of 'Kashmiri Muslims'. We have heard and still hear about the sad plight of the Muslims and the Dalits. We do talk about gays, lesbians, trans-sexuality and bisexuals as well. We talk about Ayodhya, Sri krishna Commission, and all that. And this continues. (It's great to hear so many views frankly speaking) What we probably have forgotten in this endless talk, is about those sections who are the indigenous people of the land called India (not the only indigenous ones necessarily), who have been tortured, maimed, brutalized and punished for no fault of theirs: the tribals. And we have some atrocious movements like the Salwa Judm to look at. Is this the way to fight Naxalites? Since when have common people become the ones to perform functions on behalf of the police? This movement needs to be seriously debated, and if the Article 377 can be decriminalized, this movement which affects a much wider section of people and society, and is resulting in deaths, and even rapes, should be dealt with and pressure must be applied to stop it. Below is an article related to Salwa Judum, in the recent issue of Tehelka. Hope to see views coming out on it. Regards Rakesh *The Evil That Men Do* *Tribal women claiming rape by Salwa Judum men in Chhattisgarh put a question mark on the NHRC, which rejected their testimonies. Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* *AJIT SAHI* * Editor-at-Large* **  *Assaulted* *Raped Women turned away by the NHRC seek justice* *In the Indian setting, refusal to act on the testimony of the victim of sexual assault in the absence of corroboration as a rule is adding insult to injury. A girl or a woman in the tradition- bound non-permissive society of India would be extremely reluctant even to admit that any incident that is likely to reflect on her chastity had ever occurred… [A rape victim’s testimony] does not require corroboration from any other evidence, including the evidence of a doctor.* *— Supreme Court justices Arijit Pasayat and P Sathasivam, July 2008* FOR DECADES, the Supreme Court of India has cleaved to a rigorous legal standard in cases of rape: the testimony of the victim is enough evidence to launch the prosecution of the accused. Successive judgments over the years have reinforced this position. Thousands of convictions of alleged rapists have been effectively obtained on the basis of victims’ testimonies, with no corroborative evidence sought or offered. Often, the courts have overlooked minor discrepancies in the victims’ accounts, if the main narrative holds up. Jurists and social commentators in India have long argued that, apart from being a most heinous crime against a woman’s person, her rape doubly curses her in the Indian society by imparting her a stigma that no other crime matches. That is why criminal investigation processes that the police must follow, as well as the judicial procedures prescribed when charges of rape arise, are unambiguous. This is best illustrated in the case of Hindi film actor Shiney Ahuja, who was arrested last month in Mumbai when his maidservant accused him of raping her. Ahuja has been denied bail, and rightly so, for his right to seek justice shall arise at the trial and not before or outside it. What happens when the victims are destitute tribal women with no access to police, judiciary, media? But what happens when rape becomes a brutal tool of class oppression in a wider social, political and economic war that men wage against one another, the raped women merely the pawns on their chessboard, the act of rape itself a side story, a cold-blooded strategy to terrorise an entire population into submission? What happens when the victims of rape are some of India’s most destitute tribal women, who live in virtually unreachable forests in subhuman conditions; who have absolutely zero access to the police, the judiciary, the media; whose verdant lands the mighty industrialists covet because they hold in their womb some of India’s richest mineral resources? What happens when those accused of rape are the hired guns of a dubious state-backed militia that is the frontline in one of the world’s most brutal civil wars? What happens when the Indian State pivots this war against deeply entrenched Maoist insurgents on a take-no-prisoners approach, because unless the Maoists are killed off and millions of tribal people removed from their forests, hills and fields, corporate India won’t be able to claim the bounties of their lands? What happens when it is abundantly clear that accepting the charges of rape from such women would be very dangerous indeed because that step just might begin to unravel this barbaric anti-people militia, bringing an end to its unchecked reign of terror? THIS IS the heartrending story of Chhattisgarh, and all the above questions have only one answer: the Indian State cannot afford to honestly investigate these women’s charges of rape and secure them justice. Therefore, it must be forced to do so. In the following pages, readers of TEHELKAwill find graphic gut-wrenching testimonies of some tribal women of Chhattisgarh describing how they were brutalised by the men of the Salwa Judum, the tribal militia that the state government sponsored four years ago and has since terrorised tens of thousands of innocent tribal people, burning their houses down, forcing them to abandon their villages where they had lived for generations, to move into squalid government- controlled “camps”. We traveled deep in the state’s highly forested southern region known as Bastar, and located six women who were raped by the men of the Salwa Judum [literally, peace movement]. We also spoke to one man who saw his sister raped and then found her killed; their father, too, was killed then.. The women and the man we met voluntarily gave their testimonies to us, which we have recorded on tape. Most rapes pertain to the period following the setting up of the Salwa Judum in 2005. But the most disturbing part of this story came last year when the Supreme Court asked the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) to go to Chhattisgarh and investigate the charges of murder, rape, pillage and arson brought against those men of the Salwa Judum who have been hired and armed by the state police as Special Police Officers (SPOs). The report that an NHRC ‘fact-finding’ team wrote is deeply troubling in that it blindly toes the police and government line. The NHRC report is deeply troubling as it blindly toes the police version. It absolves the accused, too Created by Parliament in 1993 as an autonomous statutory human rights watchdog, the NHRC has long pretended to be the champion of the underdog. Log on to its website today, and you will be justified to feel a gush of relief at the rather selfcongratulatory headlines about jobs well done – “NHRC takes suo moto cognisance of the alleged fake encounter in Uttarakhand and recommends CBI inquiry”; “NHRC takes the railways police IG to task as cops throw pregnant woman from moving train”; “NHRC orders the payment of three lakh rupees monetary relief in a case of death in police custody”. And yet, the NHRC refused to accept the testimonies of these tribal women of Chhattisgarh that unequivocally detail how SPOs brutally raped them. Instead of making the legally and morally sound recommendation that the state government launch the prosecution of the accused, the NHRC wrote: “During the enquiry of some specific allegations, the enquiry team also did not come across any case of rape which could be substantiated.” Shockingly, the NHRC happily absolved the accused too: “The allegations of rapes levelled against the SPOs and security forces were not substantiated during the enquiry.” The most stunning fact, of course, is the NHRC’s rejection of the testimonies of five women from a single village – Pottenar in Bijapur district – who deposed before it. Says the report: “The matter was personally enquired from each of the five girls by a lady IPS officer of the team. During the enquiry, it was observed that there were many inconsistencies in the versions of alleged victims, in the petitions given by them, as well as in the statements of the alleged victims. These inconsistencies were with regard to the number of rape victims, number of SPOs who took them away from the camp, number of SPOs who actually committed the act and their identity and the accompanying circumstances.” Shockingly, the report goes on to say: “All the victims stated that none of them reported this matter to their parents or relatives or anyone else in the camp or to the police.” Because the women raped by policemen did not report the rape to the police, their testimonies are suspect? So just when did the NHRC convert itself into a trial court? Just when did it become the job of the NHRC to summarily dismiss, without proper investigation, the charges of rape directly brought forward by the alleged victims of that crime? The chicanery at the NHRC began as it formed the investigative team. Acting on a lawsuit from activist-lawyer Nandini Sundar against the Salwa Judum, the Supreme Court said: “…We feel that in view of the serious allegations relating to violation of human rights by Naxalites and Salwa Judum and the living conditions in the refugee settlement colonies, it will be appropriate if the NHRC examines/verifies these allegations... We leave it to the NHRC to appoint an appropriate fact-finding Committee with such members as it deems fit....” The NHRC was asked to probe charges also against Salwa Judum. But it spoke mostly to Judum supporters So what did the NHRC do? To investigate charges of rape against Special Police Officers who are fully backed by the state police and the government, the NHRC decided to send a 16- member team — made up of exclusively policemen and women! This included three IPS officers, four Deputy Superintendents of Police, seven inspectors and one constable. Just why would the country’s premier human rights watchdog not include even one well-respected independent social activist in its fact-finding team? (The team head, former DIG Sudhir Chowdhary, refused to talk about this. “I have nothing to add to what is already in the report,” he told TEHELKA.) IRONICALLY, THE NHRC investigation in Chhattisgarh was launched at the behest of complainants Nandini Sundar and others, because they claimed that the Salwa Judum was brutalising innocent tribal people of Chhattisgarh. Yet, an overwhelming part of the NHRC report is based on the testimonies of people inside the Salwa Judum camps – all, therefore, predictably speaking in support of the Salwa Judum. An overwhelming number of documents and conversations relied upon are with the state police – whose very conduct the team had gone to investigate. The police and/or other security agencies accompanied the NHRC team’s “independent” visits to the villages to investigate allegations of police excesses. The petitioners complained that, once, after the NHRC enquiry team had visited a village, “the Salwa Judum leaders subsequently went there and issued death threats…” So how did the NHRC investigate this complaint? It sought a report from the state’s Director-General of Police! In fact, the entire NHRC report reads like a primary school textbook that pares down everything to a simple black-andwhite narrative, the Salwa Judum overwhelmingly white – and hardly guilty of any excesses, absolved of all charges of rape and murder – and the Naxals the blackest of the blacks, the grossest violators of human rights. The 16-member NHRC team toured the region a total of only two weeks. But its report reads like a sociological treatise waxing eloquent on the history of the Naxal movement, offering innumerable sweeping statements without any piece of evidence that they may have collected during their two-week investigations. Shockingly, the NHRC report says: “From the interaction with the villagers it also appears that many of the tribal girls were sexually exploited by the Naxalites.” And yet, the NHRC did not move to document the testimonies of such girls. At least one of the petitioners, former CPIMLA Manish Kunjum, says the NHRC report quotes him wrongly that he “admitted during interaction with the enquiry team that the policies followed by the Naxalites were responsible for the spontaneous outburst of the tribals”. “I never said anything of this sort,” Kunjam told TEHELKA. “They are exaggerating my view.” All is not lost, though. On June 16, 2009, some of these victims saw a glimmer of hope as Amrit Kerkatta, a local judicial magistrate in a Dantewada sub-district, began recording the testimonies of six rape victims after receiving their petitions. On July 3, he heard six witnesses, one for each of the victims. The judge has now fixed the next hearing for July 17. Sudha Bharadwaj, a lawyer at the Bilaspur High Court in Chhattisgarh who is representing these women, told TEHELKA: “The magistrate has taken the longest possible route to make doubly sure that the testimonies of the women are on record. It is now up to him to prepare the charge-sheet — which the police should have done in the normal course — and commit the case to trial.” If indeed the accused are finally tried on the basis of the testimonies of the raped women, then the lawyers representing the victims will certainly press these words of Supreme Court justices Pasayat and Sathasivam: “It is an irony that while we are celebrating woman’s rights in all spheres, we show little or no concern for her honour. It is a sad reflection on the attitude of indifference of society towards the violation of human dignity of the victims of sex crimes. The socio-economic status, religion, race, caste or creed of the accused or the victim are irrelevant considerations in the sentencing policy. Protection of society and deterring the criminal are the avowed objects of law and that is required to be achieved by imposing appropriate sentence. “We must remember that a rapist not only violates the victim’s privacy and personal integrity but inevitably causes serious psychological as well as physical harm. Rape is not merely a physical assault — it is often destructive of the whole personality of the victim. A murderer destroys the body of his victim, a rapist degrades the very soul of the helpless female. “A prosecutrix of a sex offence cannot be put on par with an accomplice. She is in fact a victim of the crime... What is necessary is that the court must be conscious of the fact that it is dealing with the evidence of a person who is interested in the outcome of the charge levelled by her.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* ajit at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 28, Dated July 18, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story         Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar  Historic judgement by Delhi High Court decriminalizes gay sex Read>> Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University. By Tara Menon Liberhan Report Filed 16 Years Post Deadline By Sabika Muzaffar Nirupama Rao Appointed Next Foreign Secretary By Shruti Chakraborty  More Stories>>       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 08:41:18 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:41:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907112011r4c237245rbb6c4f63d746df62@mail.gmail.com> Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter By Shrinandan Vyas ________________________________ All the Encyclopedias and National Geographic agree that Hindu Kush region is a place of Hindu genocide (similar to Dakau and Auschwitz). All the references are given. Please feel free to verify them. ________________________________ ABSTRACT All Standard reference books agree that the name 'Hindu Kush' of the mountain range in Eastern Afganistan means 'Hindu Slaughter' or 'Hindu Killer'. History also reveals that until 1000 A.D. the area of Hindu Kush was a full part of Hindu cradle. More likely, the mountain range was deliberately named as 'Hindu Slaughter' by the Moslem conquerors, as a lesson to the future generations of Indians. However Indians in general, and Hindus in particular are completely oblivious to this tragic genocide. This article also looks into the reasons behind this ignorance. 21 References - (Mainly Encyclopedia Britannica & other reference books, National Geographic Magazines and standard history books). ________________________________ INTRODUCTION The Hindu Kush is a mountain system nearly 1000 miles long and 200 miles wide, running northeast to southwest, and dividing the Amu Darya River Valley and Indus River Valley. It stretches from the Pamir Plateau near Gilgit, to Iran. The Hindu Kush ranges mainly run thru Afganistan and Pakistan. It has over two dozen summits of more than 23,000 ft in height. Below the snowy peaks the mountains of Hindu Kush appear bare, stony and poor in vegetation. Historically, the passes across the Hindu Kush have been of great military significance, providing access to the northern plains of India. The Khyber Pass constitutes an important strategic gateway and offers a comparatively easy route to the plains of Punjab. Most foreign invaders, starting from Alexander the Great in 327 BC, to Timur Lane in 1398 AD, and from Mahmud of Ghazni, in 1001 AD, to Nader Shah in 1739 AD attacked Hindustan via the Khyber Pass and other passes in the Hindu Kush (1,2,3). The Greek chroniclers of Alexander the Great called Hindu Kush as Parapamisos or Paropanisos (4). The Hindu name of the Hindu Kush mountains was 'Paariyaatra Parvat'(5). ________________________________ EARLY HISTORY OF HINDU KUSH REGION (UP TO 1000 AD) History of Hindu Kush and Punjab shows that two major kingdoms of Gandhaar & Vaahic Pradesh (Balkh of Bactria) had their borders extending far beyond the Hindu Kush. Legend has it that the kingdom of Gandhaar was established by Taksha, grandson of Bharat of Ayodhya (6). Gandhaar's borders extended from Takshashila to Tashkent (corruption of 'Taksha Khand') in the present day Uzbekistan. In the later period, Mahabharat relates Gaandhaari as a princess of Gandhaar and her brother, Shakuni as a prince and later as Gandhaar's ruler. In the well documented history, Emperor Chandragupt Maurya took charge of Vaahic Pradesh around 325 BC and then took over Magadh. Emperor Ashok's stone tablets with inscriptions in Greek and Aramaic are still found at Qandahar (corruption of Gandhaar?) and Laghman in eastern Afganistan(3). One such stone tablet, is shown in the PBS TV series 'Legacy with Mark Woods' in episode 3 titled 'India: The Spiritual Empire'. After the fall of Mauryan empire, Gandhaar was ruled by Greeks. However some of these Greek rulers had converted to Buddhism, such as Menander, known to Indian historians as Milinda, while some other Greeks became followers of Vishnav sects (Hinduism)(7). Recent excavations in Bactria have revealed a golden hoard which has among other things a figurine of a Greek goddess with a Hindu mark on its forehead (Bindi) showing the confluence of Hindu-Greek art (8). Later Shaka and KushaaN ruled Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh. KushaaN emperor Kanishka's empire stretched from Mathura to the Aral Sea (beyond the present day Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Krygzystan)(9). Kanishaka was a Buddhist and under KushaaN influence Buddhism flourished in Gandhaar. Two giant sandstone Buddhas carved into the cliffs of Bamian (west of Kabul) date from the Kushan period. The larger Buddha (although defaced in later centuries by Moslem invaders) is about 175 ft tall (10,11). The Kushan empire declined by 450 AD. The Chinese traveller Hsuan-Tsang (Xuan-zang) travelled thru the region in 7 th century AD and visited many Buddhist religious centers (3) including Hadda, Ghazni, Qonduz, Bamian (3,10,11), Shotorak and Bagram. From the 5 th thru 9 th cenury AD Persian Sasanians and Hepthalites ruled Gandhaar. During their rule Gandhaar region was again influenced by Hinduism. The Hindu kings (Shahiya) were concentrated in the Kabul and Ghazni areas. The last Hindu Shahiya king of Kabul, Bhimapal was killed in 1026 AD. The heroic efforts of the Hindu Shahiya Kings to defend the northwestern gates of India against the invaders are described by even al-Biruni, the court historian of Mahmud of Ghazni (12). Some excavated sites of the period include a major Hindu Shahiya temple north of Kabul and a chapel that contains both Buddhist and Hindu images, indicating that there was a mingling of two religions (3). Islamic invasions on Afganistan started in 642 AD, but over the next several centuries their effect was marginal and lasted only a short time after each raid. Cities surrendered only to rise in revolt and the hastily converted returned to their old religion (Hinduism or Buddhism) once the Moslem armies had passed (3). THUS TILL THE YEAR 1000 AD AFGANISTAN WAS A FULL PART OF HINDU CRADLE. ________________________________ HINDU KUSH AND THE HINDU GENOCIDE Now Afganistan is a Moslem country. Logically, this means either one or more of the following must have happened: a) original residents of Hindu Kush converted to Islam, or b) they were slaughtered and the conquerors took over, or c) they were driven out. Encyclopedia Britannica (3) already informs us above about the resistance to conversion and frequent revolt against to the Moslem conqueror's rule from 8 th thru 11 th Century AD. The name 'Hindu Kush' itself tells us about the fate of the original residents of Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh during the later period of Moslem conquests, because HINDU KUSH in Persian MEANS HINDU SLAUGHTER (13) (as per Koenraad Elst in his book 'Ayodhya and After'). Let us look into what other standard references say about Hindu Kush. Persian-English dictionary (14) indicates that the word 'Kush' is derived from the verb Kushtar - to slaughter or carnage. Kush is probably also related to the verb Koshtan meaning to kill. In Urdu, the word Khud-kushi means act of killing oneself (khud - self, Kushi- act of killing). Encyclopedia Americana comments on the Hindu Kush as follows: The name Hindu Kush means literally 'Kills the Hindu', a reminder of the days when (Hindu) SLAVES from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afgan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia (15). The National Geographic Article 'West of Khyber Pass' informs that 'Generations of raiders brought captive Hindus past these peaks of perpetual snow. Such bitter journeys gave the range its name Hindu Kush - "Killer of Hindus"'(10). The World Book Encyclopedia informs that the name Kush, .. means Death ..(16). While Encyclopedia Britannica says 'The name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medieval Berber traveller, who said the name meant 'Hindu Killer', a meaning still given by Afgan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Indian plainsmen (i.e. Hindus)(2). However, later the Encyclopedia Britannica gives a negationist twist by adding that 'more likely the name is a corruption of Hindu-Koh meaning Hindu mountains'. This is unlikely, since the term Koh is used in its proper, uncorrupted form for the western portion of Hindu Kush, viz. Koh-i-Baba, for the region Swat Kohistan, and in the names of the three peaks of this range, viz. Koh-i-Langer, Koh-i-Bandakor, and Koh-i-Mondi. Thus to say that corruption of term Koh to Kush occurred only in case of Hindu Kush is merely an effort to fit in a deviant observation to a theory already proposed. In science, a theory is rejected if it does not agree with the observations, and not the other way around. Hence the latter negationist statement in the Encyclopedia Britannica must be rejected. IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT ONE OF THE FEW PLACE NAMES ON EARTH THAT REMINDS US NOT OF THE VICTORY OF THE WINNERS BUT RATHER THE SLAUGHTER OF THE LOSERS, CONCERNS A GENOCIDE OF HINDUS BY THE MOSLEMS (13). Unlike the Jewish holocaust, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions. Few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopedia Britannica informs that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi, .. and after the battle those inhabitants (of Delhi) not killed were removed (as slaves) (17), while other reference says that the number of captives butchered by Timur Lane's army was about 100,000 (18). Later on Encyclopedia Britannica mentions that the (secular?) Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 (captured) Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod' (19). Another reference indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu peasants at Chitod is recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian himself (20). These two 'one day' massacres are sufficient to provide a reference point for estimating the scale of Hindu genocide. The Afgan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afganistan, 1,500,000 residents perished (11). Since some of the Moslem conquerors took Indian plainsmen as slaves, a question comes : whatever happened to this slave population? The startling answer comes from New York Times (May-June 1993 issues). The Gypsies are wandering peoples in Europe. They have been persecuted in almost every country. Nazis killed 300,000 gypsies in the gas chambers. These Gypsies have been wandering around Central Asia and Europe since around the 12 th Century AD. Until now their country of origin could not be identified. Also their Language has had very little in common with the other European languages. Recent studies however show that their language is similar to Punjabi and to a lesser degree to Sanskrit. Thus the Gypsies most likely originated from the greater Punjab. The time frame of Gypsy wanderings also coincides early Islamic conquests hence most likely their ancestors were driven out of their homes in Punjab and taken as slaves over the Hindu Kush. The theory of Gypsie origins in India was first proposed over two centuries ago. It is only recently theta linguistic and other proofs have been verified. Even the Gypsie leadership now accepts India as the country of their origin. Thus it is evident that the mountain range was named as Hindu Kush as a reminder to the future Hindu generations of the slaughter and slavery of Hindus during the Moslem conquests. ________________________________ DELIBERATE IGNORANCE ABOUT HINDU KUSH If the name Hindu Kush relates such a horrible genocide of Hindus, why are Hindus ignorant about it? and why the Government of India does not teach them about Hindu Kush? The history and geography curriculums in Indian Schools barely even mention Hindu Kush. The horrors of the Jewish holocaust are taught not only in schools in Israel and USA, but also in Germany. Because both Germany and Israel consider the Jewish holocaust a 'dark chapter' in the history. The Indian Government instead of giving details of this 'dark chapter' in Indian history is busy in whitewash of Moslem atrocities and the Hindu holocaust. In 1982, the National Council of Educational Research and Training issued a directive for the rewriting of school texts. Among other things it stipulated that: 'Characterization of the medieval period as a time of conflict between Hindus and Moslems is forbidden'. Thus denial of history or Negationism has become India's official 'educational' policy (21). Often the official governmental historians brush aside questions such as those that Hindu Kush raises. They argue that the British version is the product of their 'divide and rule' policy' hence their version is not necessarily true. However it must be remembered that the earliest reference of the name Hindu Kush and its literal meaning 'Hindu Killer' comes from Ibn Battutah in 1333 AD, and at that time British were nowhere on the Indian scene. Secondly, if the name indeed was a misnomer then the Afgans should have protested against such a barbaric name and the last 660 plus years should have been adequate for a change of name to a more 'civil' name. There has been no effort for such a change of name by the Afgans. On the contrary, when the Islamic fundamentalist regime of the Mujahadeens came to power in 1992, tens of thousands of Hindus and Sikhs from Kabul, became refugees, and had to pay steep ransom to enter into Pakistan without a visa. In the last 46 years the Indian Government also has not even once demanded that the Afgan Government change such an insulting and barbaric name. But in July 1993, the Government of India asked the visiting Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra to change its name because the word Jerusalem in its name is offensive to Moslem Fundamentalists. ________________________________ CONCLUSION It is evident that Hindus from ancient India's (Hindustan's) border states such as Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh were massacred or taken as slaves by the Moslem invaders who named the region as Hindu Kush (or Hindu Slaughter,or Hindu Killer) to teach a lesson to the future Hindu generations of India. Unfortunately Hindus are not aware of this tragic history. The Indian government does not want the true history of Hindu Moslem conflicts during the medieval ages to be taught in schools. This policy of negationism is the cause behind the ignorance of Hindus about the Hindu Kush and the Hindu genocide. ________________________________ COMMENTS & FUTURE WORK Although in this article Hindu Kush has been referred to as Hindu slaughter, it is quite possible that it was really a Hindu and Buddhist slaughter. Since prior to Moslem invasions influence of Buddhism in Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh was considerable. Also as the huge 175 ft stone Buddhas of Bamian show, Buddhists were idol worshipers par excellence. Hence for Moslem invaders the Buddhists idol worshipers were equally deserving of punishment. It is also likely that Buddhism was considered an integral part of the Hindu pantheon and hence was not identified separately. This article barely scratches the surface of the Hindu genocide, the true depth of which is as yet unknown. Readers are encouraged to find out the truth for themselves . Only when many readers search for the truth, the real magnitude of the Hindu genocide will be discovered. ________________________________ REFERENCES Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.5, p.935, 1987 Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.14, pp.238-240, 1987 Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.13, pp.35-36, 1987 The Invasion of India by Alexander the Great (as described by Arrian, Q.Curtius, Diodoros, Plutarch & Justin), By J.W.McCrindle, Methuen & Co., London, p.38, 1969 Six Glorious Epochs of Indian History, by Veer Savarkar, Savarkar Prakashan, Bombay, 2nd Ed, p.206, 1985 Chanakya - a TV series by Doordarshan, India Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.21, pp.36-41, 1987 V.Sarianidi, National Geographic Magazine, Vol.177, No.3, p.57, March 1990 Hammond Historical Atlas of the World, pp. H4 & H10, 1993 W.O.Douglas, National Geographic Magazine, vol.114, No.1, pp.13-23, July 1958 T.J.Abercrombie, National Geographic Magazine, Vol.134, No.3, pp.318-325, Sept.1968 An Advanced History of India, by R.C.Majumdar, H.C.Raychaudhuri, K.Datta, 2nd Ed., MacMillan and Co, London, pp.182-83, 1965 Ayodhya and After, By Koenraad Elst, Voice of India Publication, p.278, 1991 A Practical Dictionary of the Persian Language, by J.A.Boyle, Luzac & Co., p.129, 1949 Encyclopedia Americana, Vol.14, p.206, 1993 The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol.19, p.237, 1990 Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.21, pp. 54-55, 1987 An Advanced History of India, by R.C.Majumdar, H.C.Raychaudhuri, K.Datta, 2nd Ed., MacMillan and Co, London, pp.336-37, 1965 Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.21, p.65, 1987 The Cambridge History of India, Vol.IV - The Mughul Period, by W.Haig & R.Burn, S.Chand & Co., New Delhi, pp. 98-99, 1963 Negationism in India, by Koenraad Elst, Voice of India Publ, 2nd Ed, pp.57-58, 1993 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 08:45:27 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:45:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arnimal - A Love-Lorn Poetess Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907112015l354bbf2cm2a0200e528517d4@mail.gmail.com> Arnimal-A Love-Lorn Poetess It is a pleasing yet strange coincidence that Lal Ded (14th Century), Habba Khatoon (16th Century) and after a lapse of two hundred years Arnimal adorned Kashmiri literature through their poetical geniuses. Not unlike Habba Khatoon love-songs of Arnimal (1337-78), 'Vachan' in Kashmiri, are with us as a treasured bequest. Songs as extant in 'Banasaur Katha' & 'Sukh-Dukh Carit' testify that Kashmir had an entrenched and long-standing tradition of writing lyrics. In Kashmiri semantics 'Vachan' is the original form of lyrics embodying the lilting lyricism of folk-songs. As 'Vachan' is deeply imprinted by folk-songs, it is not quite easy to tell it from the genre of folk-songs. In fact, the very recognition of 'Vachan' as such is equally difficult. The historians of yore have written next to nothing informative of Kashmiri language and literature. There are some stray references about Lalla Ded as a yogic practician and Sheikh Noor-ud-Din alias Nunda Rishi as a devotees of God and also about Habba Khatoon as the beloved wife of Yusuf Shah Chak. The lyrics of Habba Khatoon available via oral tradition are sung in accompaniment with musical instruments like 'tumbaknari' and 'naut' on marriage festivities in Kashmiri homes. The tradition has lasted for umpteen generations. Even today a good number of her lyrics are found scribbled in the song-books of folk-musicians. Arnimal lived during the tyrannical and barbaric rule of Afghans (invited to Kashmir by Kashmiri Muslims). Prem Nath Bazaz has characterised Afghan rule as 'dark age' in the history of has Kashmir. When girls for fear of being lifted away were married off before the onset of puberty. The social structures of that period were as iniquitous and discriminatory as the present-day society is. The status of women was worse than what it was in the Mughul rule. Their life and living with in-laws was a woeful and ignominious saga. They were treated as life-less commodities by a male-dominated society and were fraudulently posed as models of renouncement, patience, piety and love when actually they were subjected to untold oppression and exploitation and were ruthlessly traumatised and rejected. Arnimal Kachru was also married off at a pre-puberty stage - a stage of sheer innocence. She attained maturity and youth-fulness in the house of her in-laws, a respectable family of Kachrus living at Rainawari, Srinagar. Her husband, Bhawani Das Kachru, was a high calibre Persian poet, historian and politician. He was an achiever in the domain of Persian language and wrote under the pen-name of 'Neku'. The Afghan governor, Juma Khan (1788-92) was a shade removed from his tribe and respected scholars and literatuers. It was in this period that Bhawani Das Kachru scaled heights of success and fame. The Afghans too valued his innate creative abilities that were multi-pronged and varied. Bhawani Das Kachru as a poet of poetic symposia that were held in honour of the Iranian, Afghanian and other literatuers and earned a loud applause for the recital of his scintillating Persian poems. Neku achieved tremendous reputation for innovation of a new metre (bahar) in Persian. His celebrated poetical work, 'Bahar-i-Tawil', written in the same metre became a land mark in the realms of Persian poetry. The scholarly and talented poet moulded in the feudal ambience of Muslim courts grew absolutely indifferent to his spouse who was mad in love with him. Arnimal spared no effort to establish an emotional bond with her beloved husband. She picked up the tunes of music and tried hard to acquire the graces behaving Muslim court ambience. But, to her ill-luck, she failed to achieve much of success. The distance between the duo yawned into a wide chasm. Neku turned sullen and indifferent . Burning in the agonising fires of separation Arnimal in all disgust and melanchoby returned to her partents living at Palhalan, a hamlet (in Baramulla district). A line from her sufficiently supports it - O golden Jasmine, you blossomed in jungles, bushes and shrubs but Palhalan is your parental abode. Her captivating songs ooze out varied shades of pain and agony. Separation from her spouse was what tormented her. Rejected love was what agonised her. Here is a lyric soaked in pain and agony - Wreaths of flowers I wove for my husband Would that he were to accept it Cups of wine I filled for him Would that he were to come I yearn to clasp him in my arms. Stung by intolerable pangs of separation she is deeply pining for her husband who is distances away from her. In agony she addresses her friend - O friend, tell him about my agony I know not what my fault is Repaired he to my cruel co-wife - He is hers, since I learnt it My whole being is set afire I lost my appetite I am eagerly waiting for him How I wish he were with me Despaired and for saken forsaken Arnimal expresses her pathos - Soaked in tears my hem is awaiting you my days dragon Why this futile vanity - She again sings in melancholy - When will your solf feet touch our threshold. I place them on my pate In agony I came out searching for you removing veils and barriers all Pray come to me The marital life of Arnimal Kachru was seething with pain and anguish. Says she - O friend, why my husband separated from me I bathed clean for him All adornments went useless, he did not come, O loveless, I can't bear with your separation any longer Without you I shall fade away Now no more can I wait even for a short while Arnimal has sought ample succour from nature to ventilate her heart-ravaging pain and anguish. The creepers (hiya), yellow roses (arni-posh) and narcissuses (nargis) have oft found a mention in her lyrics. Multi-form manifestations of nature like vast green fields, flowing rivers and murmuring rivulets, awesome mountains and snow-capped peaks have deftly been delineated in the context of her gloomy moods and pathos-laden feelings caused by separation from her husband. For him have I filled brimful cups of wine O  friend, could you go to summon him On way to meadow, back from peaks O friend, take my blessings to him. Rendering me hapless he frisked away like a deer Call him, platefuls of sweets & candies are awaiting him Tears are dribbling incessantly from my eyes How to bear with pain and agony Call him loud and clear Again she says - O friend, why does he kill me by inches? I left my native abode for him Why does he not take care of me? He deserted me in the dense darknight ** I am a youthful beauty, abandoned my abode for him whole day passed awaiting him His gnawing indifference has rendered me mad I bear with taunts flung by one and all Addressing her husband she in all despair busts out - O, my love, You were the friend of my youth Initially I knew not how to value it Wasted it away, Now I am pining and withering Show me your countenance, I am dying for a mere glimpse O, friend of my youth. There is an exemplary confluence of hope and despair in the love-laden lyrics of Arnimal. Helplessness, unfathomable perseverance, endless wait and incessant agony are the emotional states that weave the warp and woof of her lyrical orchestrations. But the world of her intense emotions is lacking in broad sweep. Her lyrics limpidly mirror the mind of a deserted woman who is in deep despair, lonely and yearning for a rendezvous with her spouse distances away from her. She is in anguish yet she is hopeful and optimistic. She is a broken reed, yet she yearns for a concourse with her husband who has forsaken her. Malice and ill-will never come her way. She could have screamed fire and fury at her husband who has cruelly left her high and dry. But she maintains her calm and poise. Says she - Your love impelled me to abandon my abode you knit up your brows and frowned at me I wished you long life as that of Lomesh Rishi Who ill-advised you not to return to me? Pouring out her heart Arnimal says - Would that he were to come once I would sacrifice my life for him Why he trampled me, a creeper that has fully bloomed O friend, I have none to confide I am teased and mocked at What if he does not talk to me Let him live long and be happy Let him be with my co-wife Arnimal is tormented by pangs of separation and is in hell-fires of despair, yet she sings of hope and happiness - O hope of the hopefuls! enliven my heart with hope Remove dark despair from it He repaired to Lahasa for benefits I am eagerly awaiting him Sow the seeds of warm friendship And wish no hurt even to enemies She is under the perpetual grip of blues and greys. She is wretched and forlorn. Says she - He never stood by his promises He bewitched me & went away O friend, can you manipulated his return? Everything in this world is fleeting and transitory Flowers bloom and soon fade away Memories of her spouse cause her pain and anguish. She weeps and wails for his quick return. In pain and grief she sings - When will he return to me, a woman in bubbling youth? I am shedding tears endlessly Can I ever forget the deep craving for him? My whole being is afire like a coniferous twig My pains know no end, tears in torrents Go on dripping from my eyes. Despite her husband's indifference and sullenness Arnimal never ceased to yearn and long for his close companionship. A lyric of hers opening with the yellow-hued rose (arin) is highly popular with lovers of Kashmiri poetry and music. She sings - Mine is a life brimming with pain and agony you got my heart perforated by the taunts of others You got it burnt like a half burnt cloth-piece Who will convey my wretchedness to him When will he turn up to show his coantenance to me ** Cheating me he stole away He mocked at me in presence of  strangers When should I expect him back? This is quite a popular lyric, almost on the tip of every Kashmiri’s tongue Mehmood Gami impressed so much by the lyric has in one of his lyrics immortalised the refrain. Arnirung gom shrawn...". In fact, the two lyrics are of different stamp and are not the same in feel and style. Sh. AK Rahbar has dilated in detail on the two lyrics in his work 'History of Kashmiri Literature' and made thorough comparative study. His decisive conclusion is that the opening lines are that of Arnimal and not that of Mahmood Gani. The lyric of Arnimal excels that of the latter in its naturalness and lyrical melodiousness. The following lyric of Arnimal is an exemplary specimen of highly artistic use of word and meaning in Kashmiri language  - When in slumber he pulled at my soft wrist The ornament adorning my arm hurt me great He snatched every bit of gold from me O friend, he left me sad and forlorn Who should believe whom? Another famous and quite popular lyric of Arnimal is that of 'spinning wheel' which became her inseparable companions after separatism from her spouse. The lyric is bequeathed to us from our mothers and grand-mothers and is typically Arnimalian in content and style. O spinning wheel! do not murmur and grumble Thy straw-rings I shall oil Raise thy head from under the earth, O! hyacinth Arnimal is a master craftsman of simple, bewitching and melodious language, which is not excessively burdened with Persian and Sanskrit vocabulary. Each word of hers is natural, plain, musical and lilting. Her love-lorn mindscape is deeply touching and pathetic. In an appraisal of Arnimal in his work 'Kashmiri Language and Poetry' Abdul Ahad Azad, a poet critic, writers", Arnimal was masterly in musical arts. This is why her lyrics are found in various works on music. They have the same hue and tune of Habba Khatoon and occasionally she even outstrips her". In his editorial note Mohammad Yusuf Taing puts, "Azad has not elaborately detailed out the statement that Arnimal outstrips Habba Khatoon. It appears that his observation underlines naturalness and lyrical potential of her songs". Taing has no reluctance to admit that Arnimal's lyrics are quite touching and sensitizing. Writes Shashi Shekher Toshkhani, "the deftness to weave captivating images establishes Arnimal as an unrivalled poet of her times. Masterly communication of heart-felt feelings and experiences is her forte. She is free from laboured and unwanted ornamentation of word and meaning. This features makes her language simple and musical with powers to touch our hearts. The lyrics of Arnimal are suffused with an optimism as she never let go hope about the return of her husband. As per an oral tradition Bhawani Das Kachru having been tired of ostentatious court life returned to meet Arnimal. But the pangs of protracted separation had seared her so much as to cause her death at a young age of forty-one. The twain could not meet. Tragic as it is! Source: Kashmir Sentinel From iram at sarai.net Sun Jul 12 12:32:43 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:32:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Summer Course: Film and Historical Imagination/ JB Media Resource Centre, Jamia Message-ID: <4A598A93.8060704@sarai.net> JAMES BEVERIDGE MEDIA RESOURCE CENTRE AJK Mass Communication Research Centre Jamia Millia Islamia New Delhi 110025 SUMMER COURSE: FILM AND THE HISTORICAL IMAGINATION Course instructor: Ranjani Mazumdar, Associate Professor, Cinema Studies, School of Arts & Aesthetics, JNU July 27 – August 7, 2009 CALL FOR APPLICATIONS The JB MRC invites applications from graduate students, teachers, media researchers and practitioners for a two-week long theory course titled “Film and the Historical Imagination” Course Description: Film is an archive of sensations, of emotions, of images and of sounds. As a powerful recorder of life and its events, Film lends itself to organizing not just historical knowledge but also commenting on the nature of historical narration. This two week introductory course on Film and the Historical Imagination will map the specific ways in which history and ideas about the past get constructed through the medium of cinema. Issues related to questions of evidence, memory, historical catastrophe, nostalgia, myth and heritage will be discussed and analyzed in relation to world cinema. The course is structured in the form of five illustrated lectures, followed by five full length screenings. The course will conclude with a round table discussion with all participants. A set of key essays will be provided in the form of a reader. The timings of the session will be 11 am to 5 pm every alternate day of the week, excluding weekends. Ranjani Mazumdar is Associate Professor of Cinema Studies at the School of Arts and Aesthetics at Jawaharlal Nehru University. Her publications and films focus on urban cultures, popular cinema, gender and the cinematic city. She is the author of Bombay Cinema: Archive of the City which was co published by the University of Minnesota Press and Permanent Black, 2007. She is currently co-authoring a book on the Contemporary Film Industry. Her current research interests include the cinema of the 1960s, Globalization and Film Culture, and Film and History. To apply: Send your CV and a brief statement (500 words max) outlining your interest in attending the course to courses.jbmrc at gmail.com or to the Course Coordinator, JB MRC, AJK MCRC, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi 110025. · Last date for applications: July 23, 2009 · Course commencement date: July 27, 2009 Selected applicants will be charged Rs. 650/- as the course fee From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 10:39:43 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:39:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wipro Education Fellowship Assignments 2009-2011 Message-ID: http://www.wiproeducation.com/Fellowship_projects.pdf * Wipro Education Fellowship Assignments 2009-2011 * Below is a list of assignments available under the Wipro Education Fellowship (from May 2009) * Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and Environment – ATREE, Bangalore * (www.atree.org ) ATREE seeks to address pressing environmental challenges through multidisciplinary research and active engagement with civil society and policy makers. Wipro and ATREE have started a collaborative project to evaluate the carbon footprint and biodiversity in a typical IT company campus. This initiative would involve research and document measures for reducing carbon footprint and increasing biodiversity both within and outside the Wipro campus. This kind of comprehensive exercise in carbon footprint and biodiversity evaluation would unravel a wealth of knowledge that would have implications for schools and school curriculum. As a Fellow, you will be responsible for documenting the experiences from this project and design methods and approaches in which this could be integrated into school curriculum. You would be required to design the methods and approaches in which information could be generated and disseminated among schools. This fellowship is primarily intended to provide in-service teachers or those pursuing a degree in Education at the k-12 level an opportunity to conduct relevant actionresearch and develop learning tools and approaches in the field of Conservation, Environment and Development. S/he will have the opportunity to interact with natural and social scientists at ATREE, have access to its diverse field-based academies, and work with ongoing conservation education projects. * Digantar, Jaipur (*www.digantar.org *) * Digantar and Wipro are working in a project with the government school system in the Phagi block of Jaipur Dist. As part of this program Digantar has been working with 75 schools over the past 3 years. Next year this project is being extended to 25 more schools in the same block combined with a more intense engagement with the cluster resource persons in the block. This program is called the Shiksha Samarthan Pariyojana. The vision of this project is firstly, to demonstrate that, quality education is indeed possible to be achieved in government schools and the work of government schools can be improved by working with the stakeholders on a continuous basis, offering required technical and facilitation support. Such improvement is necessary for the government public education system to provide equitable universal quality education. The objective of the program is to try and demonstrate how a group of government schools and an academic support system could potentially work towards providing good educational experience for the children. This project has been going on for 3 years now. And the project team works with all stakeholders (children, teachers, the parents and local community) to influence the school to become a more active space for learning. The Fellowship assignment would be to take up a research assignment in a specific area within the Phagi project or in some other area in Digantar with the help of TARU (The Academic and Research Unit). The output of the assignment with be multiple monographs or a research paper or articles. * National Center of Biological Sciences - NCBS, Bangalore (*www.ncbs.res.in * ) * NCBS is a research body based in Bangalore and part of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research. The core objective of this project is to connect biological research at NCBS to learning of biology in schools to create a spirit of scientific learning in general or the way biology teaching-learning happens in specific in schools. Wipro will fund a Fellow to work out of NCBS and at least one school to understand both the school context and also the research output of NCBS. NCBS will provide access to research, people and other facilities required to achieve the same. The Fellow will be academically capable of understanding the research work, not at a superficial level, but at a level which is deep enough to do justice to the research work. The Fellow will also be capable of appreciating the complexity involved in converting biological research to something that can help the way teaching-learning of biology happens. The output of the Fellowship could be any of the following: • Content similar to the iBio seminars ( www.ibioseminars.org ) that can be used within a school context in various ways • Have scientists or research students at NCBS take biology classes for students and identify differences in approach used with the current teaching-learning process. • Create classroom content and/or lesson plans for teachers either based on latest research topics that connect it to what is already taught in class. These may also use the approach identified in the above point. • Interface with the Nobel Prize winning biologists invited by NCBS to give talks to school children The possibilities could be much beyond what is outlined and is likely to emerge based on the interaction between NCBS, Wipro, the Fellow and the school. * Tulika Publications, Chennai *(www.tulikabooks.com) Wipro is keen on engaging with leading publishing organizations in creating children’s literature with ecological sensitivity as a primary theme and to create a platform for popularizing good children’s literature. Goodbooks Trust was set up under the aegis of Tulika publications to make available good children’s literature to children and parents. The Goodbooks Trust and Wipro have agreed to partner in this project to make available information about good children’s books published in 2007-08. Goodbooks with its experience in sourcing and selecting good children’s books from across the country will take up the project. Reviews and descriptions of good children’s books in English and in the different languages will be made available in a print as well as online. The first Fellowship assignment is to put together a publication (The Book Review, November issue focused on Children’s literature) that will provide information on good children’s literature in India. This will also contain commentaries and reviews on children’s literature. The information will also be made available online. In the later part of the assignment the Fellow will take up the task of putting together comprehensive information on good children’s literature and creating a database (taking off from the work done in publishing The Book Review November issue). This database will be enriched with reviews and inputs from educationists and litterateurs across the country. The Wipro Fellow get the opportunity to work closely with foremost publishers and children litterateurs and educationists in the country in course of coordinating this entire project for 2 years. * Vidya Bhawan Society, Udaipur *(www.vidyabhawan.org) Wipro and Vidya Bhawan (Udaipur) took up the Holistic School Engagement project with the four Vidya Bhawan schools in April 2004. The goals of this intervention run by the school led by school management (principals) and a core group of teachers are - To set up a quality education oriented educational system and school that emphasizes the spirit of collaboration and cooperation rather than no-holds-barred competition. - Create a stress free, child-friendly, activity-based and experiential learning atmosphere at school rather than one-sided and at times oppressively monotonous classroom teaching aimed at rewarding rote learning, memorization and thoughtless reproduction of texts and ideas alien to the learners' reach and scope of comprehension. - To encourage independent thinking, concept formation, power of expression, empathy, self actualization, leadership and creativity rather than superimposed regimentation and standardization through marks, grades, divisions, degrees and acquisition of medals and trophies. Significant amount of work has been done in the past 4 years to revamp pedagogical practices and classroom culture in the school. Over the next 2 years, interventions in the below mentioned areas will be facilitated and supported by the academic advisor a. Teaching and Learning Processes b. Teacher’s capacity building, c. Leadership and Management Processes The Wipro Fellow will work under the mentorship of the academic advisor of Vidya Bhawan (Dr. Hridaykant Dewan). The assignment would be to work with the core group of this intervention and identify specific areas of work in the project (pedagogical methods, classroom library and others) that are of research interest and create good, shareable documentation about the project. This document would have an academic/researcher’s perspective but be in a form that would be engaging for a larger audience interested in education (a monograph, films, research paper or a book). * Vikramshila, Kolkata (*www.vikramshila.org *) * Wipro in partnership with Vikramshila is doing a project with the West Bengal Board of Madrasah Education. The objective of this program is to bring about improvement in the functioning of the madrasahs, in teaching and learning in the schools, in student performances and over time work with the Board to bring about systemic change in the 506 school strong madrassah system. This program is meant to demonstrate the creation of Centres of Excellence and share the learning across the country with other madrasahs. The project is structured · To work intensively with 10 Madrasahs, in partnership with the Department of Minorities Welfare and Development and Madrasah Education, and the WBBME to establish proof of concept. These Madrasahs will function as laboratory schools where best practices, processes and systems will be tested and established. · The intervention in the 10 Madrasahs will seek to establish best practice in the areas of: i) Educational quality ii) Educational management iii) Academic support structures to ensure ongoing professional development The Fellowship assignment is to work with the project coordinator to evolve a research and documentation strategy for the intervention. This will mean taking up specific aspects of the program and do action research in this area and put together documentation meant to be shared with a larger audience. This document could be in the form of a monograph, a research paper, publishable articles or a book. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 13:36:14 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:36:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure... In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907100353o6a335cadvd84474fc3ee2b93f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907100404id55facfnb6c9311da9b80e50@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907100424l5347cd11o1cb2b2dc6a563f89@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907101140n40ef0ce8m6f6d5f0cc5cbfe39@mail.gmail.com> <309152.63871.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4270de410907102030s4ea68984nddc788ee45fc76b7@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907102326g39347104k59d715dcdf9e8fa1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110033g3c74be1dydc7ad5ea94c4fc34@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907110106t62bae3d2t557bf5945a6315b7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam You need a good sleep. b'coz you have no argument left to counter truth. Enough of your propaganda on behalf of 'Jhollah brigade'. You speak on my behalf. How far can I tolerate that ? Do you get me ? I've nothing to do with Baba Ramdev. I had just posted a news article which you wanted to give publicity, hence this chain reaction. I've serious doubts over you now. Who knows how you are related to the Brinda Karat's of the world ? Did she pay you a good sum through a national television or was it mutual indoor decision ? You are good at such deals. isn't it ? I said, I respect homosexuals. I respect Anupam Chakravartty. Don't be an apologist Sir. I don't expect anything from Moderators. They will only react if something is said against their opinion as has happened in the past. Seems you had a competetive business to Baba Ramdev, and you failed yourself. Hence such hatred comes for the great Yoga Guru. In that case, I can surely understand your frustration. Well.. business is such my friend. I told you to go for 'Pranayama'. That might just motivate you and get you some new ideas of your own. I never said HOMOSEXUALITY is a disease. You said it ANUPAM CHAKRAVARTTY. Don't be a coward, agreeing to whatever the media and those so called intellectuals say. Have your on opinion boss. This hatred against a popular Youga Guru Baba Ramdev won't solve anything. It will only worsen your own image in public. It will make a mockery of whatever argument you have. NOW STOP SPREADING RUMOURS AGAINST HIM. IT SEEMS YOU HAVE LOST IT. I PITY YOU. P.S. - A month at Haridwar or even Gadmukhteshwar will be of help. I've nothing more to add to your stupid allegations. You instead suffer from a complex. God please help my friend. Section 377 IPC...here to stay still :) regards On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:19 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Aditya, > > I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising Baba > Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you have > managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How > much > does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to spread > Ramdev's message? > > And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a guy > who had filed an application in the supreme court against decriminalisation > of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you > never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba Ramdev > as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this > reader's > list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks on > people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i > request his/her intervention on this issue. > > -anupam > > > On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions > about > > a > > public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or > argument > > to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that is > an > > altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in > > understanding his following and the service he has been giving to > millions > > worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in > > different > > global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing Yoga. > > It > > has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all > you > > have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even if > he > > charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? It > > is > > a very right step. > > > > Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is > service > > to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust > him. > > You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your > > health. > > Comparing him only makes your point weak. > > > > You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even confirming > my > > opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is > > something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic of > > you. Grow up Anupam... will you ? > > > > I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very > > important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there are > > serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not > just > > all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't bring > > in > > a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few > hundred > > people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every year. > I > > respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. > They > > are just like any other Human being. > > > > I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. > Either > > you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are > just > > ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you. > > > > Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the > Supreme > > Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. Don't > be > > sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another petition > if > > you really feel about the issue. > > > > Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your > > arrogance more than the original issue. > > > > Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :) > > > > love > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > Let me be very clear about this. You cite the social service done by > this > > > Ramdev character. I agree he is doing a good job out of the shivirs, > > > precisely by making his moolah. and you know it very well with the kind > > > of money he charges from people. He has cured 1000s of people so has > > > several > > > doctors in the rural india who also get a steady stream of visitors. > now > > > Ramdev wants to contest the Delhi High Court order on Section 377 which > > > decriminalises homosexuality in India. Ramdev is a healer, if i were to > > say > > > so it benefits him to put his message across to the people -- his > > audience > > > that homosexuality is a disease. By stating that homosexuality is a > > > disease, > > > now he will be making more money out of it just like several doctors > and > > > pharmaceutical companies, computer virus protection softwares mint > money > > in > > > the name of diseases and various ailment. contrary to your belief, > > > Ramdev has no other motive, not even for the cause of the larger indian > > > society, which is only around 60 % literate, but to mint money by > > 'curing' > > > the cases of homosexuality and turning them "straight" with his > > medicines. > > > obviously he wont be able to cheat his patients for a long time. since > > you > > > are citing Brinda and Co and their so-called campaign backed by > > > multinationals, it is the same tendency of this Ramdev fellow to mint > > money > > > by calling homosexuality a disease. > > > > > > i think you are not capable of arguing so you resort to name-calling > and > > ad > > > hominem attacks. so you better work on it pal. on everyone here instead > > of > > > arguing your case. you havent been able to provide any kind of proof > that > > > homosexuality is a disease. > > > > > > -anupam > > > > > > > > > On 7/11/09, Manak Matiyani wrote: > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > As the debate on homosexuality in the indian media gets more and more > > > > ridiculous we all wait for the government to finally take a stand. > > > Although > > > > one hears now that the center would ask for an extension to file > their > > > > reply > > > > to the supreme court. The heated public opinions makes it difficult > for > > > > them > > > > to support the high court decision without losing the support of > > > religious > > > > leaders. > > > > > > > > Personally, I feel baba Ramdev seems to be against sex in general and > > > hopes > > > > to cure homosexuals well enough to produce children in dysfunctional, > > > > loveless families. The problem with current religious leaders is that > > > they > > > > want to brush the fact of sex and sexuality under the carpet, or in > > this > > > > case, into the closet as though finding joy in sex itself were the > > > disease. > > > > "Love your friends, love your parents, love many men, but there > should > > be > > > > no > > > > sexual desire (vaasana) in that " says the Baba. And this call for a > > > > sexless > > > > life seems to find many followers as long as their own joys and acts > > are > > > > covered by the stamp of heterosexual marriage. Frankly, i've heard > the > > > sex > > > > for procreation lectures for a long time and and i refuse to buy it. > > Last > > > > time i checked, condom's were not freely available in nature, yet the > > > > government distributes them and for good reason. Our ideas or sex, > > > > sexuality > > > > and love must all evolve with the time, as has baba Ramdev's yoga! > > > > > > > > I wonder how firmly the moral fabric of a society balancing on the > thin > > > > string of lies and deception will hold. What good will the > > > criminalisation > > > > of homosexuality would achieve other than forcing a large section of > > the > > > > population back into a life of fear and unable to participate in the > > joys > > > > of > > > > loving and living freely. The self appointed custodians of social and > > > moral > > > > fabric should perhaps engage themselves with the many other wrongs of > > our > > > > society and leave the few rights alone. > > > > > > > > The one thing that is clear is that Ramdev's petition is > > scientifically > > > > ill > > > > founded and weak, but would go a long way riding on his popularity > and > > > > public appeal. Today, in psychology it would be malpractice to say > > > > homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. Medical science has for > > > long > > > > cleared that doubt for all of us. The reading down of an archaic law > > was > > > > another positive step in the direction of a free and just society. > The > > > > social stigma remains, but perhaps that too would gradually change. > > > > Religion > > > > and religious leaders can only guide the lives of their followers and > > not > > > > dictate legislation. > > > > > > > > My knowledge of yoga, indian scriptures and scientific basis for > > > > homosexuality is very limited, so i thought it wise to post an > > insightful > > > > article that i came across to add to this discussion. > > > > > > > > Here's Devdutt Pattanaik's response to the baba's tirade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/10/baba-ramdev-is-wrong-homosexuality-is-no-disease.htm > > > > > > > > Manak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > *Baba Ramdev is wrong, homosexuality is no disease* > > > > *Dr Devdutt Pattanaik* > > > > * > > > > * > > > > *July 10, 2009 > > > > Baba Ramdev calls homosexuality a disease. No textbook of psychiatry > > says > > > > so. The World Health Organisation does not say so. And no, not even > the > > > > scriptures, certainly not the Yoga Sutra, says so. In all > probability, > > > this > > > > is the Baba's personal opinion. He has a right to his opinion. But > can > > a > > > > country's law be based on his opinion? > > > > > > > > The problem is that the Baba is a celebrity and in the times we live > > in, > > > > celebrities, especially those with a religious and cultural aura, are > > > seen > > > > as voices of authority. We must be careful about such opinions. The > > > > practice > > > > of using science to justify social prejudices is not something new. > > Baba > > > > Ramdev [Images< > > > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=baba%20ramdev> > > > > ], with his charm and benign smile, is doing what has been done > before. > > > > > > > > I remember an old black and white film starring Nutan called Sujata > > where > > > a > > > > respected elder of the family explains the physiological reason for > > > > sustaining the practice of untouchability. 'They produce a lethal > gas,' > > > he > > > > said referring to the Dalits. Because the gentleman had standing, his > > > > opinion mattered. Many people agreed with the learned family friend. > > Not > > > > the > > > > hero. Not us. > > > > > > > > In Hitler's [Images < > > > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=hitler> > > > > ] Germany [Images < > > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=germany > > > > >], > > > > hundreds of scientists dressed in white coats earnestly believed and > > > > rationalised that Jews were a social pathology, a disease, a gangrene > > > that > > > > had to be wiped out to create a perfect, healthy society. This > resulted > > > in > > > > the Holocaust. It disgusts us today. > > > > > > > > In South Africa > > > > [Images< > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=south%20africa > > > > > > > ], there were many scholars who went out of their way to publish > > articles > > > > to > > > > rationalise apartheid. They considered the non-White races to be > > > subhuman. > > > > An entire social structure was constructed based on this ideology. We > > > must > > > > be careful of such rhetoric. > > > > > > > > The term 'disease' presupposes a normal health condition. Modern > > medicine > > > > uses this term very cautiously -- the patient must be distressed by > it, > > > or > > > > it must threaten a person's well-being, before it can be labelled > > > disease. > > > > Disease cannot be a term used by a community to brand and weed out > > people > > > > that it is uncomfortable with. An unpopular social group cannot be > > > labelled > > > > 'diseased' to justify extermination. > > > > > > > > In Sparta, children who were born with congenital abnormalities, say > a > > > > cleft > > > > lip and a malformed limb, were immediately killed. In the Mahabharata > [ > > > > Images >], > > a > > > > blind man was not allowed to be king. In Australia > > > > [Images > > > > ], well meaning ladies funded a project to forcibly take children > from > > > > Aboriginal homes to prevent abnormal/diseased parenting and give them > > > away > > > > in adoption to white parents. Would we do that today? > > > > > > > > Significantly, even the term 'supernatural' presupposes a normal > state > > of > > > > being. So a being with three heads in one culture would be seen as > > > > 'deformed' in another; he would be seen as 'supernatural' -- a demon > > for > > > > one, a god for another. How shall we classify deities with three > heads > > > and > > > > four arms? By whose gaze? By whose lens? By whose measuring scale? > Ten > > > > thousand years ago, when food was scarce, a fat woman was worshipped > as > > a > > > > goddess. Today, we consider her obese and psychologically torment her > > > till > > > > she diets, exercises and sheds fat. Is that fair? > > > > > > > > Logic and science and authority can be used to justify anything. But > > > > ultimately we have to ask -- what is our goalpost? Imagine your > > daughter > > > is > > > > getting married to a nice young man who has homosexual feelings. > Until > > a > > > > few > > > > weeks ago, he never told the world about it for fear of being branded > a > > > > criminal. > > > > > > > > Now, no thanks to the Baba, he feels he is mad. He does not think so. > > He > > > > does not feel so. But he is afraid to tell the world the truth of his > > > > desires. So he has firmly entrenched himself in the closet. > > > > > > > > He will tell no one, certainly not his mother, or father, or brother, > > > that > > > > he has had sex with men. Not one or two, but dozens, secretly, > > silently, > > > > furtive experiences, with men who like him are afraid to disclose > their > > > > preferences in public lest they be labelled criminals or diseased. > > > > > > > > He will marry your daughter. And your daughter will wonder why, in > the > > > > privacy of the bedroom, this nice man shuns any attempt to be being > > > > intimate. Is she the problem? Her self worth will suffer. The > marriage > > > will > > > > suffer. Children will be conceived in loveless unions. The man will > > find > > > it > > > > difficult to be faithful and seek comfort elsewhere. And your > daughter > > > will > > > > wonder what is wrong. > > > > > > > > The secret will never be revealed. Everyone in this patriarchal > society > > > > will > > > > blame the daughter. A sham of a marriage -- only because of a law, an > > > > intolerant society and Baba's authoritative opinion. > > > > > > > > Homosexuality is natural -- it has been documented in animal species. > > > > Homosexual feelings are not a choice -- they exist in every human > > > society. > > > > Why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? No one really knows > the > > > > answer. It is like asking, why do humans experience orgasm? Orgasm > does > > > not > > > > play any role in procreation. Why does it exist (and it is found only > > in > > > > the > > > > human species and a few primates)? We can only speculate but we will > > > never > > > > know. > > > > > > > > The question is -- what are we as a civil human society doing about > it? > > > Do > > > > we call orgasm -- unnatural or miraculous, God's gift to humanity? > What > > > > behaviour do we propose? Should we act on homosexual feelings or > > suppress > > > > them, stay celibate and serve society, as the good Baba suggests? Is > > > > celibacy a 'good' thing? > > > > > > > > In the Mahabharata, sages like Agastya, Kardama and Jaratkaru are > > reviled > > > > by > > > > their ancestors for being celibate. 'Repay your debt to your > > ancestors,' > > > > they demanded and forced the rishis to marry and produce children. > This > > > > desire for children stretched to a point where if one was sterile, as > > in > > > > case of Pandu, one was expected to send one's wife to a stranger to > get > > > > impregnated by him. > > > > > > > > Rishis had to have sex to produce children -- but were expected to be > > > > disciplined enough not to get pleasure out of it, to have sex without > > > > orgasm, for procreation, nothing else. > > > > > > > > What about the wives of the rishis, one may ask. In one conversation > > with > > > > Urvashi, female sexual desire itself is described as a disease to be > > > > curtailed with fidelity and marriage. The epic refers to a time when > > > women > > > > were free to express their desires followed by a time when they were > > > > restrained by laws of fidelity and chastity. Clearly, definition of > > what > > > > constitutes normal changed over time. > > > > > > > > The changes continued with the rise of monastic orders like Buddhism > > > (which > > > > incidentally popularised the saffron colour). Suddenly monasticism > > became > > > > superior social behaviour. It is so even today, not just in Buddhism > > but > > > > also in Jainism, in Roman Catholicism, and, thanks to the > > Shankaracharya, > > > > even in Hinduism. > > > > > > > > While Sufi mystics chose to be celibate, ask a traditional Muslim > > cleric > > > if > > > > celibacy is acceptable social behaviour. In all probability he will > say > > > no. > > > > He will insist on marriage and children and a householder's life. So > > much > > > > for celebration of celibacy. > > > > > > > > What is normal and what is healthy is based on a measuring scale. > > > Different > > > > people have different measuring scales. Notions of what is normal and > > > what > > > > is not, what is physiological and what is pathological, change with > > time > > > > and > > > > place. > > > > > > > > In this ever fluid world, how does one separate acceptable social > > conduct > > > > from what is unacceptable? Society, after all, is not a jungle. > > > > > > > > A civil society exists to include people to enable them to live lives > > to > > > > their full potential. The underlying principle is empathy. I am sure > > the > > > > Baba has empathy. But he also has a measuring scale by which he > > considers > > > > same sex desires a disease. > > > > > > > > One can show him findings from the animal kingdom, one can show him > > > > psychiatric text books, one can show him scriptural evidence of > > inter-sex > > > > states -- but he will dismiss it all as 'Western'. His measuring > scale > > > does > > > > not include everyone. > > > > > > > > The Baba will say yoga considers homosexuality a disease. People will > > > > believe him. The media will quote him. And it will become about yoga > > and > > > > Western science. But strangely, the notion of disease does not exist > in > > > > yoga. In yoga, all discussions are about creating harmony. And what > is > > > > harmonious depends on the environment and goal -- thus, what is good > in > > > one > > > > situation for one purpose may not be so in another. Thus, the > approach > > to > > > > ailment is very different form Western science. > > > > > > > > Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra defines yoga as 'chitta vriddhi nirodha' > -- > > > the > > > > uncrumpling of the crumpled mind. The goal post of yoga is to realise > > > > divinity (some would say one's true self) by overpowering prejudice > > > through > > > > increased awareness. I suspect, despite all the asanas and the > > > pranayamas, > > > > the great yoga master has still some prejudices to uncrumple. > > > > > > > > Dr Devdutt Pattanaik www.devdutt.com) is a medical doctor by > training > > > and > > > > a > > > > mythologist by passion. After working in the pharma industry for over > > 14 > > > > years, he is now Chief Belief Officer at the Future Group. A renowned > > > > speaker and columnist, he has written over a dozen books on the > > relevance > > > > of > > > > sacred stories, symbols and rituals in modern times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, subhrodip sengupta < > > > > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear ALL, > > > > > Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different > > perceptions > > > > of > > > > > reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured. > > > Hostel > > > > > life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have > co-educational > > > > > hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a > > result > > > of > > > > > selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to > himself > > > is > > > > not > > > > > hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and > > force > > > > them > > > > > into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in > such > > a > > > > > society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why > do > > > we > > > > > carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not > > > > > homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and > > > increases > > > > > the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which > > > > itself > > > > > shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against > > > homosexuals. > > > > We > > > > > need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in > > > every > > > > > society, > > > > > of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such > > > iron > > > > > actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in > > swines, > > > > man > > > > > must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a > check > > by > > > > > LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted > > humans > > > to > > > > > behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to > > most > > > > > prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have > > > taken > > > > > too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word > > > 'Quack'. > > > > It > > > > > is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off > > > course, > > > > for > > > > > reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem > mordern, > > > free > > > > of > > > > > some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male > sexual > > > > abuse > > > > > is kept close guarded by helpless males thinking of the stigma and > > > > social > > > > > unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people > > still on > > > > > everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of > > > > > self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to > develop > > > one > > > > > such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they > did > > > not > > > > say > > > > > I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After > > Homosexuality > > > is > > > > > legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for > > > > > authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long > as > > he > > > > does > > > > > not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who > > > need > > > > to > > > > > think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice > > continues. > > > > And > > > > > social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry > > was > > > > > always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant, > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continues................................................................................................................. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > To: sarai list > > > > > Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a > cure... > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > > > I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can > you, > > > > > according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact > that > > > you > > > > > can > > > > > only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, > but > > > > with > > > > > no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give > proof > > > > > before > > > > > you resort to any more mud slinging. > > > > > > > > > > Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from > > > > > multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all > the > > > > more. > > > > > You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed > by > > > just > > > > > abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media. > > It > > > is > > > > > quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his > > > shows > > > > > overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I > > > know > > > > > briefly about. > > > > > > > > > > You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just > > like > > > > > that. > > > > > Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those > > media > > > > > people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the > > so > > > > > called SECULAR Media. > > > > > > > > > > I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point > > further. > > > > Grow > > > > > up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on > > > internet > > > > > alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather > than > > my > > > > > words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. > Don't > > > > > remain > > > > > in the four walls of ignorance. > > > > > > > > > > I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to > > disagree. > > > > You > > > > > shouldn't force your opinion on others. > > > > > > > > > > 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend. > > > > > > > > > > love > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. > Second, > > > this > > > > > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his > > > followers > > > > > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with > > > > > > television.. > > > > > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being > > cured > > > by > > > > > > that > > > > > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping > out > > > > > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev > > eating > > > on > > > > > air > > > > > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in > > tribal > > > > > areas > > > > > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the > > > > villagers > > > > > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to > be > > > > > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of > > indian > > > > > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle > class > > > > Hindu > > > > > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like > a > > > > > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american > > > > > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 > from > > > > Hindu > > > > > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it > even > > > more > > > > > > (says a latest TOI report) . > > > > > > > > > > > > -with warmest regards > > > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon > > some > > > > day. > > > > > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev > > > > hasn't > > > > > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself. > > > > > Spreading > > > > > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It > > > > > qualifies > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved > your > > > > > > > disability > > > > > > > openly on sarai today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of > > > > > followers > > > > > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may > > > > > continue > > > > > > to > > > > > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for > > sure > > > > how > > > > > > rich > > > > > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game > > of > > > > > money. > > > > > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Aditya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. > I > > > > think > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with > > > three > > > > > > wives, > > > > > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this > > was > > > > > > > described > > > > > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse > > > > habits. > > > > > i > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your > whacko > > > > baba, > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all > about > > it > > > > > with > > > > > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru > who > > > has > > > > > > > reached > > > > > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. > your > > > > ideas > > > > > of > > > > > > > > yoga > > > > > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this > > > ramdev > > > > > and > > > > > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger > > > indian > > > > > > > society. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -regards > > > > > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba, > > Maulvi > > > > or > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > father. > > > > > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their > > eyes > > > to > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the > > > common > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help > > > > Hindus. > > > > > It > > > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite < > > > dnyan21 at yahoo.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like > > > Baba > > > > > who > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument > saying > > > > > > > > homosexuality > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual > > > > relations > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > anthropology, I think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dnyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga > > has > > > a > > > > > > > cure... > > > > > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." < > reader-list at sarai.net> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM > > > > > > > > > > > Since people have raised the question > > > > > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I > > > > > > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In > their > > > > > > > > > > > evolution, human > > > > > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do > > so > > > > > > > > > > > (though mostly in > > > > > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very > > > > > > > > > > > early history of > > > > > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is > that > > > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been > > decided > > > > > > > > > > > that women have > > > > > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time, > > > > > > > > > > > would that have been > > > > > > > > > > > natural? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether > > > > > > > > > > > something is natural > > > > > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to > > take > > > > > > > > > > > place with time, > > > > > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being > > > > > > > > > > > natural or not, if the > > > > > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it > and > > > > > > > > > > > these scriptures > > > > > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they > > > > > > > > > > > can't be considered > > > > > > > > > > > 'natural'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in > a > > > > > > > > > > > minority in India, > > > > > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India. > > That > > > > > > > > > > > is certainly > > > > > > > > > > > true as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: < > > > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: < > > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. > > Check > > > > out > > > > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Definitions belong to the > > > > definers not to the defined. > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 12:28:46 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:28:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jan panel suspects family role in Shopian case Message-ID: <6353c690907112358y29c2b009u1c29a902904c5bf8@mail.gmail.com> *Jan panel suspects family role in Shopian case* Srinagar (PTI) The Jan Commission probing the alleged rape and murder of two women in Shopian district has pointed finger of suspicion towards the brother and husband of Neelofar, one of the two victims of the incident. The Commission in its report has said there was clear indication suggesting enmity between Neelofar's maiden family and her in-laws. "The conduct of Zeerak Shah (Neelofar's brother) has been highly suspicious and objectionable after the death of Neelofar and Asiya Jan," the Commission said in its report. Bodies of Neelofer (22) and her sister-in-law Asiya (17) were recovered from a stream on May 30 after they went missing from their orchards in Shopian town the previous evening, sparking off massive protest by locals who suspected the hand of armed force personnel in their alleged rape and murder. The Jammu and Kashmir government ordered a judicial enquiry in the matter headed by retired High Court Judge Justice Muzaffar Ahmad Jan. The commission in its report said Neelofar, who belonged to "Peer" (Muslim priest) family seen with respect and honour in society, had eloped with Shakeel Ahmad Ahangar hailing from "Khaar" family, which is included in the OBC category, leading to feud between two families. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 12:30:21 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:30:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Media misrepresented key facts on Shopian rape-murder Message-ID: <6353c690907120000k1cc838a1ye3c77d7c724eaf5e@mail.gmail.com> *Media misrepresented key facts on Shopian rape-murder * Praveen Swami * Journalists share responsibility for fanning south Kashmir violence, judge says * ------------------------------ * For the most part, Justice Jan found, the media misrepresented forensic evidence Blood on a victim’s forehead was “shamefully distorted and projected as a mark of sindoor” * ------------------------------ NEW DELHI: Ever since May, when the bodies of two women washed up near Shopian, journalists have chronicled the multiple failures of administration and policing that allowed the tragic deaths to spark off some of the worst street violence ever seen in Jammu and Kashmir. Following the release of the findings of the Justice Muzaffar Jan Commission of Enquiry on Friday, the Jammu and Kashmir government has announced that it intends to prosecute four police officials for some of those failures. But both journalists and the Jammu and Kashmir government have maintained a stoic silence on one institution blamed by Justice Jan for spreading falsehood and inciting violence: the media itself. Stories fabricated? Justice Jan’s report highlights disturbing evidence that some journalists may have fabricated elements of their stories. Early in June, several Srinagar-based journalists reported that one victim’s husband had received a call from her at 7 p.m. on May 29. During the call, the accounts said, the victim reported that she was being chased by CRPF personnel. In their testimony to the Jan Commission, though, the victim’s husband and her brother made it clear that she had never owned a mobile phone, a fact first reported in this newspaper. Jammu and Kashmir police investigators attached to the Commission studied 32,686 cellphone calls made in Shopian on May 29, and were able to establish that none was made to or from any phone that may have been in the victim’s possession. Efforts were also made by sections of the media to suggest that the local police may have sought to hush up the case on the orders of their superior. Journalists in particular turned on Constable Mohammad Yaseen, who was reported to have made several phone calls to superiors even as a search for the victims’ bodies was underway — evidence, it was argued, of the unusual interest of his bosses in the case. In fact, the Commission found, Mr. Yaseen had made only four calls during the whole day and none between 10 p.m. on June 29, when the search for the victims began, until 6 a.m. on June 30, when the bodies were found. Local resident Jamal-ud-Din Wani, claimed by the media to be an eyewitness to the killings, was alleged to have been abducted after the bodies were found. The Jan Commission found him living in a tent at the hamlet of Dehgam, close to Shopian, where he works as a watchman at a local seminary. For the most part, Justice Jan found, the media misrepresented forensic evidence. Media accounts insisted that both women appeared to have been badly beaten and gang raped. However, the Jan Commission states, pathologists found no evidence to support the proposition of gang rape. Moreover, only one victim’s body was found to bear visible external injuries. Claims that one victim was pregnant at the time of her death, Justice Jan states, were also wrong. Perhaps in order to buttress claims that the two women had been raped before they were killed, some journalists asserted that their clothes were torn. However, witnesses interviewed by the Jan Commission said that the women’s Feran and shalwar were intact. Most disturbing, though, is Justice Jan’s finding that the media incited hatred by broadcasting communal propaganda. Based on the accounts of individuals claiming to be eyewitnesses, newspapers said that one victim’s forehead had been smeared with sindoor — an allegation that suggested that the rapists were Hindus, and the rape itself macabre religion-driven hate crime. However, the Commission noted, the red marks on her forehead were in fact blood from a head wound. “The flow of blood,” the report states, “was shamefully distorted and projected as a mark of sindoor.” Noting that this kind of reporting has fuelled violence in Jammu and Kashmir, Justice Jan has suggested that “firm guidelines are made to ensure that, before publication of any news, the authenticity of the news be verified.” From rhit_svu at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 12:45:47 2009 From: rhit_svu at hotmail.com (Rohit K Dasgupta) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:45:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Submission Message-ID: Kinaara is a monthly online literary magazine for the youth in South Asia and the diaspora. It aims to provide an opportunity for publication of chiefly writing – literary and sociological, fiction and non-fiction; and also art, photography and in-between compositions by young people who identify themselves or their work as South Asian. Kinaara will never discriminate among its readers and/or contributors on the basis of race, caste, religion, nationality, place of birth, place of residence, gender, sexual preference, physical disability, academic qualification, occupation or political affiliation. However: Kinaara is a youth magazine, and while we agree that the definition of youth is debatable, at Kinaara we maintain an upper age limit of 30 years for being accepted for submission. Kinaara is a magazine about South Asia, so we will only accept submissions from people who identify as South Asian and/or work that relates in any way to South Asia. Kinaara is a literary magazine, which means we are committed to a certain standard of quality in writing. If you are incapable of writing comfortably in English, please consider writing in any language you are comfortable in and getting your work translated to English by someone else. If you are incapable of writing comfortably in any language, perhaps being published in a magazine is not what you are looking for. Submissions Upcoming Editions: August 2009: The tentative theme is CONFLICT. We are looking for articles, stories, poetry, art, photography and anything in between that explore, deconstruct and comment on conflict. The last date of submission is July 15. September 2009: No theme. Choose your topic and send in your work. The last date of submission is August 15. — Submission Guidelines: All submissions should be sent to submit at kinaaramagazine.org Kinaara is a themed magazine. We aim to publish people who identify as South Asian and/or work that relates to South Asia. If your work is of a different concentration, we will be unable to accept or publish your work. The upper age limit of submission to Kinaara is 30 years. Please mention your age along with your submission. (Add a note if you don’t want us to publish it.) We are looking for around a limit of 3000 words for prose fiction, 2000 words for articles, and 60 lines for poetry per feature. The limit for comics is 5 pages, with each page being of A4 size. For a photo or art feature, send in no more than 10 images. Each image file must be no larger than 500 kbs. Add a two-sentence introduction to yourself along with your submission, possibly mentioning location, occupation and age. This is important, because we will not publish a submission without it. It is also important that you keep your introduction to two sentences. We will edit it to that size otherwise. Send in your work as MS Word (.doc or .docx), MS Text (.txt) or JPEG (.jpg) files, or files that open with similar applications. If your work is shorter than 1000 words, you can also paste it in the mail body. Send Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) files only if you require specific image-text arrangements. Refrain from sending unfamiliar file formats. Please remember that if we cannot open your file, we may not consider publishing it. — Additional Guidelines: If you have used secondary information in your article, add a reference to the source. If you want to be published in a particular edition, it would help to send in your submission as early as possible. We don’t make the final selection till the deadline is crossed, but we may start forming a vague idea of what we like as the submissions come in. Please check your spellings, punctuations, grammar and formatting as much as possible. No writing comes entirely in bold or italics. No writing comes in green or violet or other random colours either. Don’t use a formatting you don’t have an explanation for. Please don’t flood us. Send in one set of submission at a time. Please don’t send us your work asking for critique. If we select your work we will get in touch with suggestions, if any, but we cannot be expected to provide critical analysis for every submission. Rohit K Dasgupta Dept. of English, JU on behalf of the Kinaara team www.kinaaramagazine.org _________________________________________________________________ Live Search extreme As India feels the heat of poll season, get all the info you need on the MSN News Aggregator http://news.in.msn.com/National/indiaelections2009/aggregator/default.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 12 12:56:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:26:51 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Electoral roll to have photos, fingerprints Message-ID: <65be9bf40907120026i29f8942w3cf6086fd0dd387e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All I wonder what sort of an impression a Nepali will have after reading the story pasted below? Sample this bit - 'Nepal is the third country in South Asia to be introducing an electoral roll with voters´ pictures, fingerprints and digital signatures. India and Bangladesh have already introduced such electoral rolls.' We all know that hardly represents the truth, at least with respect to India. The story seems to be some sort of PR job for the smart card industry, does it not ? I wonder, if the Indian media has ever indulged in a similar type of myth building exercise, while deliberately deferring the truth, in order to create a favorable impression, to pave the way for the eventual introduction of MNIC cards? Regards Taha http://www.myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=7345 Electoral roll to have photos, fingerprints BIMAL GAUTAM KATHMANDU, July 12: The Election Commission (EC) has decided to replace the conventional electoral roll with a new one that has voters´ photographs, fingerprints and digital signatures. The constitutional body took the landmark decision last week in a bid to check voter rigging that takes place under the existing electoral roll. The present electoral roll has only voters´ names and addresses, and this has encouraged bogus voting in past elections. The decision will come into effect when the EC launches its annual update of the electoral roll in February/March next year. “The main objective of this big project is to minimize the risk of unfair voting in future elections´´ said Acting Chief Election Commissioner Neel Kantha Uprety. “The proposed new electoral roll will help control the faking of names, addresses and documents in upcoming elections.´´ Nepal is the third country in South Asia to be introducing an electoral roll with voters´ pictures, fingerprints and digital signatures. India and Bangladesh have already introduced such electoral rolls. Past elections have seen voters casting their ballots at more than one polling station. Thanks to a conventional voter list that has failed to check rigging, the EC receives a huge number of complaints about bogus voting with the use of forged documents. The EC is going to launch a pilot project in November/December before implementing its decision next February/March, said Uprety, talking to myrepublica.com Saturday. Under this project, photographic and electronic fingerprint machines will be used while collecting and updating the electoral roll electronically. “An electronically processed electoral roll will be more reliable, authentic and acceptable in quality so that every citizen will willingly posses and keep it for multiple uses, including voting´´ said Uprety. Under the project, particulars about voters will be stored digitally by around 10,000 government employees. More than 3,000 laptops will be used to update the list of 18 million voters. It is estimated that the project will cost Rs 1.8 billion, which works out to Rs 100 for each voter. The EC hopes that the data on voters collected in this way can be helpful for distributing national identity cards, something that the government has promised to do in the next fiscal year under the policies and programs it announced on Wednesday. “Personal details collected by the EC will be authentic and every government agency can use it for its own purposes,” Uprety said while urging one and all to support the ambitious plan. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 12 13:41:58 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:11:58 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Indian IT Firms to Rake In on Smartcard Projects Message-ID: <65be9bf40907120111w77821293o6906bb9e9ff8c0d9@mail.gmail.com> Dear All One more news bit on the ID card industry. Excerpts- -The citizen ID card program proposed by the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) will be supported by a vast eco-system, comprising data collectors or managers, delivery channels, chip designers, smart card manufacturers, application and software providers, system integrators, networking analysts and print companies. - -IT companies like TCS and Infosys have confirmed that they would actively bid for the project.- -Around 27 large e-governance projects worth Rs. 40,000 crore are currently in the pipeline.- Are we witnessing an open loot of the Indian coffers here? May be some one should look into whether the Home Ministry officials, Planning Commission officials, retired bureaucrats of the Ministry of IT and politicians of the Congress, the BJP, the Communists and of course the print and electronic media have any shares or holdings of TCS and Infosys? Maybe they don't, but what if, one were to conjecture that some of them do have, significantly large amount of holdings belonging to TCS and Infosys, which may amount to having wealth which is disproportionate to the known sources of income? My question is, what will this tell us about the way in which our polity works or functions? Regards Taha http://www.indiajournal.com/pages/event.php?id=7504 Indian IT Firms to Rake In on Smartcard Projects Date Submitted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 BANGALORE: The ongoing migration of Indian citizens from paper cards to smart cards is throwing up a multibillion dollar business opportunity for domestic technology players. The citizen ID card program proposed by the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) will be supported by a vast eco-system, comprising data collectors or managers, delivery channels, chip designers, smart card manufacturers, application and software providers, system integrators, networking analysts and print companies. The entire ID card project in India is estimated to be around Rs. 10,000 crore, with the first phase covering ultra-urban, urban, and semi-urban population offering Rs. 6,500 crore business opportunities. IT companies like TCS and Infosys have confirmed that they would actively bid for the project. “The entire process including the bidding process, deal negotiations and business evaluation, are expected to be transparent. There will not be any conflict of interest for us and therefore, we will participate in the bid,’’ said a Senior Official at Infosys Technologies. TCS has already been working with the government on projects like e-passport, Gujarat police and the Defence Ministry. “Since it is going to be an open bidding process, we will be bidding for it,’’ said a Senior Official at TCS. Around 27 large e-governance projects worth Rs. 40,000 crore are currently in the pipeline. Having been badly hit by the economic recession, many technology leaders have been urging the government to accelerate these projects to induce economic buoyancy. The UIDAI comes as a quick response to the industry’s call. Som Mittal, the President of IT industry body Nasscom, told Times of India, “This is a transformational project for the country as it will overlay many underlying projects, creating huge efficiencies for the country leading to enhanced governance and reduced costs.” From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 13:55:14 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:55:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security forces need to hang their head in shame. "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed relations with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her relations,'' the report said. " http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 12 14:06:25 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:36:25 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On Jabs, Jokes and Jobs: The curious case of UIDAI Message-ID: <65be9bf40907120136l4b920100nd219e7e118b7827f@mail.gmail.com> The argument for providing stimulus for the Industry is based on a premise that this redistribution of money in favor of IT industry will also provide 1,00,000 jobs. If providing more jobs is an important criteria for such a redistribution then why is some portion of money allotted to UIDAI could not be given as a subsidy to housing or sanitation, which is a labor intensive sector and may result in providing jobs to people whose count will perhaps be many times over 100000? At the level of infrastructure why can't the government realize that more than smart cards we need LATRINES for Indians? Why can't this government not see? It appears as if while the so called improvised lot vote a government to power, when in power, the government cater to the super rich. 160 districts of India are out bounds for the so called Government of India because the Naxals seems to be running the show. it takes six months to gain control of a small police station. Yet some people voted from these districts too in the recently concluded general elections, maybe because they had some hope in believing in the idea of India. Does any one in their right mind would think that they voted so that they could be given a sexy digital identity card? No. But Government of India thinks for all. And it seems, all, cannot think for all. Therefore whether they voted for this mandate or that, MNIC is going to be? After all Nandan is there to take care of things. And Nandu can do many things at the same time. If you don't believe me then just go to Mathura and you will know. He is all knowing. Nandu, it seems, was always in the knowledge business. But how does the UIDAI propose to survey 160 of 604 of administrative districts of India or roughly 27% of the entire political territory of India? I would not be surprised if God forbid!!! some people were to think that UIDAI is nothing but a big joke. Especially from the point of view of those living in 160 districts where Government of India is hardly present. It would certainly appear to me, had I been born as a Siddhi and was living somewhere in Madhya Pradesh. Nandan Nilekani is the chief of UIDAI. While his so called former company bids for government projects where he is in charge. And how come no one could see that there maybe a conflict of interest here? From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 14:38:32 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:38:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination' The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in Kashmir's Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, while indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also sought investigation of the role of some family members. Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, termed the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- released to public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a thorough investigation into the character and possible involvement of Nilofar's husband and brother-in-law in the incident. The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed against Justice Jan. The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, has also rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan commission's report as a "kitchen report". In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said the commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the victims which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. "It has not identified the culprits," he said. On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security > forces need to hang their head in shame. > > > "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had > ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The > examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and > Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her > visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed relations > with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her > relations,'' the report said. " > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 14:40:35 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:40:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> Jan Comn disowns part of report http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14798 Says Kashmir Police insisted to add Shakeel’s profile *Ishfaq Mir Srinagar, July 11: *The Justice (Retired) Jan Commission, which submitted its final report on rape and murder of two women in Shopian to government Saturday denied making any recommendations against the family members of the victims. The Commission said it has been wrongly interpreted and report about deceased Neelofer’s husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger is not from the Commission itself. “The impression about the two families especially Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger given in the print and electronic media attributing the remarks to the Commission is not correct,” clarified Secretary Justice Jan Commission, Mukhtar Ahmad Wani. He said, “In the entire report no observation has been made against any member of the victim families by the Commission. Nothing has been said about any family members. This was not the point of reference for the Commission, so why should the Commission do it”. While clarifying he said, “The suspicions were projected before the Commission by the police investigating team. But they were not even considered or acted upon by the Commission and have been wrongly attributed as observations of the Commission”. He said police investigation had traced the details of at least 5000 calls and recorded the statements of more than 30 witnesses. So they wanted the investigation to be part of the report, but Commission refused to act upon it or even consider it. Later the police ‘findings’ were enclosed in the report but neither as part nor as recommendation. “The government passed the entire information of the report to the media persons, causing confusion,” added Wani. Meanwhile, the Commission has taken up the matter with the government and sought its clarification. EOM On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination' > > The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in Kashmir's > Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, while > indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also sought > investigation of the role of some family members. > > Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, termed > the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- released to > public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a thorough > investigation into the character and possible involvement of Nilofar's > husband and brother-in-law in the incident. > > The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed against > Justice Jan. > > The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, has also > rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". > > Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan > commission's report as a "kitchen report". > > In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said the > commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the victims > which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. > > "It has not identified the culprits," he said. > > > On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: >> >> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security >> forces need to hang their head in shame. >> >> >> "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had >> ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The >> examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and >> Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her >> visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed relations >> with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her >> relations,'' the report said. " >> >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From sudeep.ks at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 14:50:45 2009 From: sudeep.ks at gmail.com (Sudeep K S) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:50:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Bobby's Beemapalli reflection : Sitting Ducks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *It is with the utmost hesitation that I write this. Hesitation because I think I have not understood, nor have many others who have written about the May police firing in Beemapalli. *Not that there is any ambiguity in anybody's (who has visited the place) mind about the specific incidents that took place on 17th of May this year. As a part of a small fact finding team trying to tie up its report, I'd rather use this space to raise contextual questions about the police firing that have been haunting me since I heard the first reports of the firing.. In a guest post, *Bobby Kunhu* tries to put down his mixed feelings on his visit to *Beemapalli* (near Thriruvananthapuram, Kerala) after the police firing that happened on May 17. *Sitting Ducks: A Beemapali Reflection* http://sudeepsdiary.blogspot.com/2009/07/sitting-ducks-beemapalli-reflection.html From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 15:15:16 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:15:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907112011r4c237245rbb6c4f63d746df62@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907112011r4c237245rbb6c4f63d746df62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan We all know "Hindu Kush" means Hindu killer, but an even basic question is: what has been the meaning of the word "Hindu" itself all these centuries? Does Hindu mean the follower of a religion (Vaisnavite, Shaivite or whatever) or the resident of a region beyond the river Sindh? Who started using the word Hindu first, and what did they mean by it when they started using the word Hindu-kush. The various meanings you have presented assume that this was the region where the followers of Hinduism were massacred. But what did Hinduism mean in those days? Javed On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter > > By Shrinandan Vyas > > ________________________________ > All the Encyclopedias and National Geographic agree that Hindu Kush > region is a place of Hindu genocide (similar to Dakau and Auschwitz). > All the references are given. Please feel free to verify them. > ________________________________ > ABSTRACT > All Standard reference books agree that the name 'Hindu Kush' of the > mountain range in Eastern Afganistan means 'Hindu Slaughter' or 'Hindu > Killer'. History also reveals that until 1000 A.D. the area of Hindu > Kush was a full part of Hindu cradle. More likely, the mountain range > was deliberately named as 'Hindu Slaughter' by the Moslem conquerors, > as a lesson to the future generations of Indians. However Indians in > general, and Hindus in particular are completely oblivious to this > tragic genocide. This article also looks into the reasons behind this > ignorance. > 21 References - (Mainly Encyclopedia Britannica & other reference > books, National Geographic Magazines and standard history books). > ________________________________ > INTRODUCTION > The Hindu Kush is a mountain system nearly 1000 miles long and 200 > miles wide, running northeast to southwest, and dividing the Amu Darya > River Valley and Indus River Valley. It stretches from the Pamir > Plateau near Gilgit, to Iran. The Hindu Kush ranges mainly run thru > Afganistan and Pakistan. It has over two dozen summits of more than > 23,000 ft in height. Below the snowy peaks the mountains of Hindu Kush > appear bare, stony and poor in vegetation. Historically, the passes > across the Hindu Kush have been of great military significance, > providing access to the northern plains of India. The Khyber Pass > constitutes an important strategic gateway and offers a comparatively > easy route to the plains of Punjab. Most foreign invaders, starting > from Alexander the Great in 327 BC, to Timur Lane in 1398 AD, and from > Mahmud of Ghazni, in 1001 AD, to Nader Shah in 1739 AD attacked > Hindustan via the Khyber Pass and other passes in the Hindu Kush > (1,2,3). The Greek chroniclers of Alexander the Great called Hindu > Kush as Parapamisos or Paropanisos (4). The Hindu name of the Hindu > Kush mountains was 'Paariyaatra Parvat'(5). > ________________________________ > EARLY HISTORY OF HINDU KUSH REGION (UP TO 1000 AD) > History of Hindu Kush and Punjab shows that two major kingdoms of > Gandhaar & Vaahic Pradesh (Balkh of Bactria) had their borders > extending far beyond the Hindu Kush. Legend has it that the kingdom of > Gandhaar was established by Taksha, grandson of Bharat of Ayodhya (6). > Gandhaar's borders extended from Takshashila to Tashkent (corruption > of 'Taksha Khand') in the present day Uzbekistan. In the later period, > Mahabharat relates Gaandhaari as a princess of Gandhaar and her > brother, Shakuni as a prince and later as Gandhaar's ruler. > In the well documented history, Emperor Chandragupt Maurya took charge > of Vaahic Pradesh around 325 BC and then took over Magadh. Emperor > Ashok's stone tablets with inscriptions in Greek and Aramaic are still > found at Qandahar (corruption of Gandhaar?) and Laghman in eastern > Afganistan(3). One such stone tablet, is shown in the PBS TV series > 'Legacy with Mark Woods' in episode 3 titled 'India: The Spiritual > Empire'. After the fall of Mauryan empire, Gandhaar was ruled by > Greeks. However some of these Greek rulers had converted to Buddhism, > such as Menander, known to Indian historians as Milinda, while some > other Greeks became followers of Vishnav sects (Hinduism)(7). Recent > excavations in Bactria have revealed a golden hoard which has among > other things a figurine of a Greek goddess with a Hindu mark on its > forehead (Bindi) showing the confluence of Hindu-Greek art (8). Later > Shaka and KushaaN ruled Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh. KushaaN emperor > Kanishka's empire stretched from Mathura to the Aral Sea (beyond the > present day Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Krygzystan)(9). > Kanishaka was a Buddhist and under KushaaN influence Buddhism > flourished in Gandhaar. Two giant sandstone Buddhas carved into the > cliffs of Bamian (west of Kabul) date from the Kushan period. The > larger Buddha (although defaced in later centuries by Moslem invaders) > is about 175 ft tall (10,11). The Kushan empire declined by 450 AD. > The Chinese traveller Hsuan-Tsang (Xuan-zang) travelled thru the > region in 7 th century AD and visited many Buddhist religious centers > (3) including Hadda, Ghazni, Qonduz, Bamian (3,10,11), Shotorak and > Bagram. From the 5 th thru 9 th cenury AD Persian Sasanians and > Hepthalites ruled Gandhaar. During their rule Gandhaar region was > again influenced by Hinduism. The Hindu kings (Shahiya) were > concentrated in the Kabul and Ghazni areas. The last Hindu Shahiya > king of Kabul, Bhimapal was killed in 1026 AD. The heroic efforts of > the Hindu Shahiya Kings to defend the northwestern gates of India > against the invaders are described by even al-Biruni, the court > historian of Mahmud of Ghazni (12). Some excavated sites of the period > include a major Hindu Shahiya temple north of Kabul and a chapel that > contains both Buddhist and Hindu images, indicating that there was a > mingling of two religions (3). > Islamic invasions on Afganistan started in 642 AD, but over the next > several centuries their effect was marginal and lasted only a short > time after each raid. Cities surrendered only to rise in revolt and > the hastily converted returned to their old religion (Hinduism or > Buddhism) once the Moslem armies had passed (3). > THUS TILL THE YEAR 1000 AD AFGANISTAN WAS A FULL PART OF HINDU CRADLE. > ________________________________ > HINDU KUSH AND THE HINDU GENOCIDE > Now Afganistan is a Moslem country. Logically, this means either one > or more of the following must have happened: > a) original residents of Hindu Kush converted to Islam, or > b) they were slaughtered and the conquerors took over, or > c) they were driven out. > Encyclopedia Britannica (3) already informs us above about the > resistance to conversion and frequent revolt against to the Moslem > conqueror's rule from 8 th thru 11 th Century AD. The name 'Hindu > Kush' itself tells us about the fate of the original residents of > Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh during the later period of Moslem > conquests, because HINDU KUSH in Persian MEANS HINDU SLAUGHTER (13) > (as per Koenraad Elst in his book 'Ayodhya and After'). Let us look > into what other standard references say about Hindu Kush. > Persian-English dictionary (14) indicates that the word 'Kush' is > derived from the verb Kushtar - to slaughter or carnage. Kush is > probably also related to the verb Koshtan meaning to kill. In Urdu, > the word Khud-kushi means act of killing oneself (khud - self, Kushi- > act of killing). Encyclopedia Americana comments on the Hindu Kush as > follows: The name Hindu Kush means literally 'Kills the Hindu', a > reminder of the days when (Hindu) SLAVES from Indian subcontinent died > in harsh Afgan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of > Central Asia (15). The National Geographic Article 'West of Khyber > Pass' informs that 'Generations of raiders brought captive Hindus past > these peaks of perpetual snow. Such bitter journeys gave the range its > name Hindu Kush - "Killer of Hindus"'(10). The World Book Encyclopedia > informs that the name Kush, .. means Death ..(16). While Encyclopedia > Britannica says 'The name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the > writings of Ibn Battutah, the medieval Berber traveller, who said the > name meant 'Hindu Killer', a meaning still given by Afgan mountain > dwellers who are traditional enemies of Indian plainsmen (i.e. > Hindus)(2). However, later the Encyclopedia Britannica gives a > negationist twist by adding that 'more likely the name is a corruption > of Hindu-Koh meaning Hindu mountains'. This is unlikely, since the > term Koh is used in its proper, uncorrupted form for the western > portion of Hindu Kush, viz. Koh-i-Baba, for the region Swat Kohistan, > and in the names of the three peaks of this range, viz. Koh-i-Langer, > Koh-i-Bandakor, and Koh-i-Mondi. Thus to say that corruption of term > Koh to Kush occurred only in case of Hindu Kush is merely an effort to > fit in a deviant observation to a theory already proposed. In science, > a theory is rejected if it does not agree with the observations, and > not the other way around. Hence the latter negationist statement in > the Encyclopedia Britannica must be rejected. > IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT ONE OF THE FEW PLACE NAMES ON EARTH THAT > REMINDS US NOT OF THE VICTORY OF THE WINNERS BUT RATHER THE SLAUGHTER > OF THE LOSERS, CONCERNS A GENOCIDE OF HINDUS BY THE MOSLEMS (13). > Unlike the Jewish holocaust, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide > suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number > is easily likely to be in millions. Few known historical figures can > be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopedia Britannica informs that > in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least > 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi, .. and after the battle > those inhabitants (of Delhi) not killed were removed (as slaves) (17), > while other reference says that the number of captives butchered by > Timur Lane's army was about 100,000 (18). Later on Encyclopedia > Britannica mentions that the (secular?) Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered > the massacre of about 30,000 (captured) Rajput Hindus on February 24, > 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod' (19). Another reference > indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu peasants at Chitod is > recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian himself (20). These two > 'one day' massacres are sufficient to provide a reference point for > estimating the scale of Hindu genocide. The Afgan historian Khondamir > records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of > Herat in western Afganistan, 1,500,000 residents perished (11). > Since some of the Moslem conquerors took Indian plainsmen as slaves, a > question comes : whatever happened to this slave population? The > startling answer comes from New York Times (May-June 1993 issues). The > Gypsies are wandering peoples in Europe. They have been persecuted in > almost every country. Nazis killed 300,000 gypsies in the gas > chambers. These Gypsies have been wandering around Central Asia and > Europe since around the 12 th Century AD. Until now their country of > origin could not be identified. Also their Language has had very > little in common with the other European languages. Recent studies > however show that their language is similar to Punjabi and to a lesser > degree to Sanskrit. Thus the Gypsies most likely originated from the > greater Punjab. The time frame of Gypsy wanderings also coincides > early Islamic conquests hence most likely their ancestors were driven > out of their homes in Punjab and taken as slaves over the Hindu Kush. > The theory of Gypsie origins in India was first proposed over two > centuries ago. It is only recently theta linguistic and other proofs > have been verified. Even the Gypsie leadership now accepts India as > the country of their origin. > Thus it is evident that the mountain range was named as Hindu Kush as > a reminder to the future Hindu generations of the slaughter and > slavery of Hindus during the Moslem conquests. > ________________________________ > DELIBERATE IGNORANCE ABOUT HINDU KUSH > If the name Hindu Kush relates such a horrible genocide of Hindus, why > are Hindus ignorant about it? and why the Government of India does not > teach them about Hindu Kush? The history and geography curriculums in > Indian Schools barely even mention Hindu Kush. The horrors of the > Jewish holocaust are taught not only in schools in Israel and USA, but > also in Germany. Because both Germany and Israel consider the Jewish > holocaust a 'dark chapter' in the history. The Indian Government > instead of giving details of this 'dark chapter' in Indian history is > busy in whitewash of Moslem atrocities and the Hindu holocaust. In > 1982, the National Council of Educational Research and Training issued > a directive for the rewriting of school texts. Among other things it > stipulated that: 'Characterization of the medieval period as a time of > conflict between Hindus and Moslems is forbidden'. Thus denial of > history or Negationism has become India's official 'educational' > policy (21). > Often the official governmental historians brush aside questions such > as those that Hindu Kush raises. They argue that the British version > is the product of their 'divide and rule' policy' hence their version > is not necessarily true. However it must be remembered that the > earliest reference of the name Hindu Kush and its literal meaning > 'Hindu Killer' comes from Ibn Battutah in 1333 AD, and at that time > British were nowhere on the Indian scene. Secondly, if the name indeed > was a misnomer then the Afgans should have protested against such a > barbaric name and the last 660 plus years should have been adequate > for a change of name to a more 'civil' name. There has been no effort > for such a change of name by the Afgans. On the contrary, when the > Islamic fundamentalist regime of the Mujahadeens came to power in > 1992, tens of thousands of Hindus and Sikhs from Kabul, became > refugees, and had to pay steep ransom to enter into Pakistan without a > visa. > In the last 46 years the Indian Government also has not even once > demanded that the Afgan Government change such an insulting and > barbaric name. But in July 1993, the Government of India asked the > visiting Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra to change its name because the > word Jerusalem in its name is offensive to Moslem Fundamentalists. > ________________________________ > CONCLUSION > It is evident that Hindus from ancient India's (Hindustan's) border > states such as Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh were massacred or taken as > slaves by the Moslem invaders who named the region as Hindu Kush (or > Hindu Slaughter,or Hindu Killer) to teach a lesson to the future Hindu > generations of India. Unfortunately Hindus are not aware of this > tragic history. The Indian government does not want the true history > of Hindu Moslem conflicts during the medieval ages to be taught in > schools. This policy of negationism is the cause behind the ignorance > of Hindus about the Hindu Kush and the Hindu genocide. > ________________________________ > COMMENTS & FUTURE WORK > Although in this article Hindu Kush has been referred to as Hindu > slaughter, it is quite possible that it was really a Hindu and > Buddhist slaughter. Since prior to Moslem invasions influence of > Buddhism in Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh was considerable. Also as the > huge 175 ft stone Buddhas of Bamian show, Buddhists were idol > worshipers par excellence. Hence for Moslem invaders the Buddhists > idol worshipers were equally deserving of punishment. It is also > likely that Buddhism was considered an integral part of the Hindu > pantheon and hence was not identified separately. > This article barely scratches the surface of the Hindu genocide, the > true depth of which is as yet unknown. Readers are encouraged to find > out the truth for themselves . Only when many readers search for the > truth, the real magnitude of the Hindu genocide will be discovered. > ________________________________ > REFERENCES > > Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.5, p.935, 1987 > Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.14, pp.238-240, 1987 > Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.13, pp.35-36, 1987 > The Invasion of India by Alexander the Great (as described by Arrian, > Q.Curtius, Diodoros, Plutarch & Justin), By J.W.McCrindle, Methuen & > Co., London, p.38, 1969 > Six Glorious Epochs of Indian History, by Veer Savarkar, Savarkar > Prakashan, Bombay, 2nd Ed, p.206, 1985 > Chanakya - a TV series by Doordarshan, India > Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.21, pp.36-41, 1987 > V.Sarianidi, National Geographic Magazine, Vol.177, No.3, p.57, March 1990 > Hammond Historical Atlas of the World, pp. H4 & H10, 1993 > W.O.Douglas, National Geographic Magazine, vol.114, No.1, pp.13-23, July > 1958 > T.J.Abercrombie, National Geographic Magazine, Vol.134, No.3, > pp.318-325, Sept.1968 > An Advanced History of India, by R.C.Majumdar, H.C.Raychaudhuri, > K.Datta, 2nd Ed., MacMillan and Co, London, pp.182-83, 1965 > Ayodhya and After, By Koenraad Elst, Voice of India Publication, p.278, 1991 > A Practical Dictionary of the Persian Language, by J.A.Boyle, Luzac & > Co., p.129, 1949 > Encyclopedia Americana, Vol.14, p.206, 1993 > The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol.19, p.237, 1990 > Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.21, pp. 54-55, 1987 > An Advanced History of India, by R.C.Majumdar, H.C.Raychaudhuri, > K.Datta, 2nd Ed., MacMillan and Co, London, pp.336-37, 1965 > Encyclopedia Britannica, 15 th Ed, Vol.21, p.65, 1987 > The Cambridge History of India, Vol.IV - The Mughul Period, by W.Haig > & R.Burn, S.Chand & Co., New Delhi, pp. 98-99, 1963 > Negationism in India, by Koenraad Elst, Voice of India Publ, 2nd Ed, > pp.57-58, 1993 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 17:29:29 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:29:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sania below BPL & Married ! - Jai Ho Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907120459n3dc9d505x945df21d53acfeaf@mail.gmail.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8118113.stm Sania Mirza 'below poverty line' By Omer Farooq in Hyderabad Sania Mirza is ranked 85 in world women's tennis Indian tennis star Sania Mirza lives below the poverty line, if government records in the southern state of Andhra Pradesh are to believed. A special ration card for poor people carrying Mirza's name and photograph has been recovered during investigations, officials say. The card issued in Vizianagaram district also mentions a local 20-year-old man as her husband. Mirza, who is one of the top ranking players, is unmarried. The 22-year-old player, ranked 85 in the world, crashed out of Wimbledon in the second round on Wednesday. The BPL (Below Poverty Line) ration cards entitles beneficiaries to cheap rice at two rupees (less than 5 cents) a kilogramme, a pension, housing and free health insurance. Bogus cards The fraudulent card carrying Mirza's name and photograph was issued in the Vepadu village in Vizianagaram state by the revenue department. Mirza, who is one of India's richest sportspeople, lives in an up-market neighbourhood in the state capital, Hyderabad. The one-per-household BPL cards are only supposed to be issued after married couples personally appear before the authorities and have their pictures taken together in a single picture frame. But in this case, the ration card carried two separate pictures of Mirza and someone called "Mr Narayana" in contravention of the law. In this case it appears that the holder of the card may have been single and put the tennis star's name and photograph alongside his - claiming her to be his wife. An angry Chief Minister YS Rajasekhar Reddy has ordered an investigation into the matter. "Find out whether the officer who issued this card in the name of Sania Mirza is a mad man. How can any one can do it? It is height of negligence," he told his officers. The government now says an estimated 4.5 million such bogus ration cards in the state should be weeded out during the drive to be launched from next month. Other bogus cards show photographs of beneficiaries travelling in a Skoda car and a train. The drive will also target ration shop dealers who also use the bogus cards to siphon the cheap rice and sell it at a higher price in open market. Nearly 24 million ration cards are in circulation in Andhra Pradesh, which has only 19 million households. That means that over four million cards in the state are bogus. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 17:58:00 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:58:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907120528wf977fd9w6c2e331362097182@mail.gmail.com> One would anyday trust a report by PTI and The Times of India or The Hindu rather than a report by local separatist run newspaper The Rising Kashmir which has obvious bias and planted news. Period On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:40 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Jan Comn disowns part of report > http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14798 > Says Kashmir Police insisted to add Shakeel’s profile > *Ishfaq Mir > Srinagar, July 11: *The Justice (Retired) Jan Commission, which submitted > its final report on rape and murder of two women in Shopian to government > Saturday denied making any recommendations against the family members of > the > victims. > The Commission said it has been wrongly interpreted and report about > deceased Neelofer’s husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger is not from the > Commission > itself. “The impression about the two families especially Shakeel Ahmad > Ahanger given in the print and electronic media attributing the remarks to > the Commission is not correct,” clarified Secretary Justice Jan Commission, > Mukhtar Ahmad Wani. > He said, “In the entire report no observation has been made against any > member of the victim families by the Commission. Nothing has been said > about > any family members. This was not the point of reference for the Commission, > so why should the Commission do it”. > While clarifying he said, “The suspicions were projected before the > Commission by the police investigating team. But they were not even > considered or acted upon by the Commission and have been wrongly attributed > as observations of the Commission”. > He said police investigation had traced the details of at least 5000 calls > and recorded the statements of more than 30 witnesses. So they wanted the > investigation to be part of the report, but Commission refused to act upon > it or even consider it. Later the police ‘findings’ were enclosed in the > report but neither as part nor as recommendation. > “The government passed the entire information of the report to the media > persons, causing confusion,” added Wani. > Meanwhile, the Commission has taken up the matter with the government and > sought its clarification. > > EOM > > > On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination > ' > > > > The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in Kashmir's > > Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, while > > indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also sought > > investigation of the role of some family members. > > > > Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, termed > > the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- released > to > > public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a thorough > > investigation into the character and possible involvement of Nilofar's > > husband and brother-in-law in the incident. > > > > The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed against > > Justice Jan. > > > > The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, has > also > > rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". > > > > Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan > > commission's report as a "kitchen report". > > > > In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said the > > commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the victims > > which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. > > > > "It has not identified the culprits," he said. > > > > > > On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > >> > >> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security > >> forces need to hang their head in shame. > >> > >> > >> "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had > >> ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The > >> examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and > >> Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her > >> visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed relations > >> with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her > >> relations,'' the report said. " > >> > >> > >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 18:04:36 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:04:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <6353c690907120528wf977fd9w6c2e331362097182@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907120528wf977fd9w6c2e331362097182@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907120534j6aba02f2hba1dacfb96213d7e@mail.gmail.com> there is a HT report also attached to it. kindly have a look. im surprised this is so-called seperatist paper is functioning in india with legitimate quotes from the someone who is part of the commission. On 7/12/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > One would anyday trust a report by PTI and The Times of India or The Hindu > rather than a report by local separatist run newspaper The Rising Kashmir > which has obvious bias and planted news. > > Period > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:40 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Jan Comn disowns part of report > > http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14798 > > Says Kashmir Police insisted to add Shakeel’s profile > > *Ishfaq Mir > > Srinagar, July 11: *The Justice (Retired) Jan Commission, which submitted > > its final report on rape and murder of two women in Shopian to government > > Saturday denied making any recommendations against the family members of > > the > > victims. > > The Commission said it has been wrongly interpreted and report about > > deceased Neelofer’s husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger is not from the > > Commission > > itself. “The impression about the two families especially Shakeel Ahmad > > Ahanger given in the print and electronic media attributing the remarks > to > > the Commission is not correct,” clarified Secretary Justice Jan > Commission, > > Mukhtar Ahmad Wani. > > He said, “In the entire report no observation has been made against any > > member of the victim families by the Commission. Nothing has been said > > about > > any family members. This was not the point of reference for the > Commission, > > so why should the Commission do it”. > > While clarifying he said, “The suspicions were projected before the > > Commission by the police investigating team. But they were not even > > considered or acted upon by the Commission and have been wrongly > attributed > > as observations of the Commission”. > > He said police investigation had traced the details of at least 5000 > calls > > and recorded the statements of more than 30 witnesses. So they wanted the > > investigation to be part of the report, but Commission refused to act > upon > > it or even consider it. Later the police ‘findings’ were enclosed in the > > report but neither as part nor as recommendation. > > “The government passed the entire information of the report to the media > > persons, causing confusion,” added Wani. > > Meanwhile, the Commission has taken up the matter with the government and > > sought its clarification. > > > > EOM > > > > > > On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination > < > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline=%27Shopian+report+character+assassination > > > > ' > > > > > > The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in Kashmir's > > > Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, while > > > indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also > sought > > > investigation of the role of some family members. > > > > > > Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, > termed > > > the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- > released > > to > > > public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a thorough > > > investigation into the character and possible involvement of Nilofar's > > > husband and brother-in-law in the incident. > > > > > > The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed against > > > Justice Jan. > > > > > > The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, has > > also > > > rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". > > > > > > Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan > > > commission's report as a "kitchen report". > > > > > > In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said the > > > commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the > victims > > > which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. > > > > > > "It has not identified the culprits," he said. > > > > > > > > > On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > >> > > >> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security > > >> forces need to hang their head in shame. > > >> > > >> > > >> "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had > > >> ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The > > >> examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and > > >> Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her > > >> visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed relations > > >> with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her > > >> relations,'' the report said. " > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 18:10:15 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:10:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <341380d00907120534j6aba02f2hba1dacfb96213d7e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907120528wf977fd9w6c2e331362097182@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120534j6aba02f2hba1dacfb96213d7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907120540y3570fe06qa2d39b98a51d212e@mail.gmail.com> Shopian rape, murders a family feud?*M Saleem Pandit , 12 July 2009 The Times of India Link - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms * SRINAGAR: The one-man panel appointed by the J&K government to probe the rape and murder of two women in Shopian appears to have gone soft on Related Articles - Cops involved in Shopian rape, murder: J&K govt - 'Men in uniform are Kashmir's problem, not solution' - EDITORIAL COMMENT | Kashmiri RouletteExpand [+] - Blog:: Army retreat from Jammu and Kashmir will be suicidal - How To Resolve Kashmir - Exhume bodies of Shopian rape victims: HC - Baramulla tense, CRPF withdrawn from area - Probe confirms Shopian rape, murder; blames cops for 'destroying evidence' - AFPSA is 'necessary' to fight militancy: Pallam Raju - Will Kashmir be safer, happier without Army?Collapse [-] security forces accused of the crimes and has instead said that the killings could be a result of a family feud. It said that the victims' brothers could be suspects. Pointing out that the conclusive evidence to identify the culprits has not been furnished because of various constraints, the panel said the involvement of some agency of the J&K police, in the present incident, cannot be completely ruled out. Bodies of Neelofer (22) and her sister-in-law Asiya (17) were recovered from a stream on May 30 after they disappeared from their orchards in Shopian town the previous evening, sparking off massive protest by locals who suspected the hand of security personnel in the case. In the face of public outcry across the Valley, the state government had on June 3 appointed a commission headed by Justice Muzaffar Ahmad Jan to investigate the circumstances leading to the deaths. Although the panel in its final 400-page report submitted to the government last Tuesday has called for more investigation into the role of security forces personnel, it has also brought out new ‘‘facts'' of the case. It has cast doubts on the moral character of one of the victims, Neelofer Jan, and her husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger, brother of second victim Asiya Jan. It said Neelofer Jan belonged to a higher caste of Peer, whereas Shakeel came from Khaar family, which is included in the OBC category. The report said ever since the two eloped in 2007, Neelofer's brother Syed Zeerak Shah, a constable in traffic department, was not happy with the marriage and had even threatened the Ahanger family of dire consequences. ‘‘The conduct of Zeerak Shah has been highly suspicious and objectionable after the death of Neelofar and Asiya Jan,'' the commission said. Zeerak is also accused of having instigated the people against the government. ‘‘A departmental action may be initiated against Shah,'' the panel said. It also has said there was clear indication suggesting enmity between Neelofar's maiden family and her in-laws. ‘‘Shakeel Ahanger does not carry a good reputation in the society and is being known for his immoral activities. His assets are quite disproportionate to his known sources of income, requiring investigation to work out the possibility of Shakeel and his friends/associates' role in the present incident,'' the report said. During the probe, the commission found that after eloping with Neelofar, Ahanger had moved out of the district. He, however, returned and started his own business in readymade furniture and got separated from his family. ‘‘Despite the fact that he was taking care of education and other expenses of two sisters, Roomi and Asiya, and was meeting additional expenditure after the birth of his child, he purchased orchards and even a car,'' the report pointed out. Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed relations with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her relations,'' the report said. The panel, going beyond its terms of reference, has also criticized the role of the media in provoking people's sentiments and called for ‘‘firm guidelines for reporting such news''. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 6:04 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > there is a HT report also attached to it. kindly have a look. im surprised > this is so-called seperatist paper is functioning in india with legitimate > quotes from the someone who is part of the commission. > > > > > On 7/12/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > One would anyday trust a report by PTI and The Times of India or The > Hindu > > rather than a report by local separatist run newspaper The Rising Kashmir > > which has obvious bias and planted news. > > > > Period > > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:40 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Jan Comn disowns part of report > > > http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14798 > > > Says Kashmir Police insisted to add Shakeel’s profile > > > *Ishfaq Mir > > > Srinagar, July 11: *The Justice (Retired) Jan Commission, which > submitted > > > its final report on rape and murder of two women in Shopian to > government > > > Saturday denied making any recommendations against the family members > of > > > the > > > victims. > > > The Commission said it has been wrongly interpreted and report about > > > deceased Neelofer’s husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger is not from the > > > Commission > > > itself. “The impression about the two families especially Shakeel Ahmad > > > Ahanger given in the print and electronic media attributing the remarks > > to > > > the Commission is not correct,” clarified Secretary Justice Jan > > Commission, > > > Mukhtar Ahmad Wani. > > > He said, “In the entire report no observation has been made against any > > > member of the victim families by the Commission. Nothing has been said > > > about > > > any family members. This was not the point of reference for the > > Commission, > > > so why should the Commission do it”. > > > While clarifying he said, “The suspicions were projected before the > > > Commission by the police investigating team. But they were not even > > > considered or acted upon by the Commission and have been wrongly > > attributed > > > as observations of the Commission”. > > > He said police investigation had traced the details of at least 5000 > > calls > > > and recorded the statements of more than 30 witnesses. So they wanted > the > > > investigation to be part of the report, but Commission refused to act > > upon > > > it or even consider it. Later the police ‘findings’ were enclosed in > the > > > report but neither as part nor as recommendation. > > > “The government passed the entire information of the report to the > media > > > persons, causing confusion,” added Wani. > > > Meanwhile, the Commission has taken up the matter with the government > and > > > sought its clarification. > > > > > > EOM > > > > > > > > > On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination > > < > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline=%27Shopian+report+character+assassination > > > > > > ' > > > > > > > > The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in Kashmir's > > > > Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, > while > > > > indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also > > sought > > > > investigation of the role of some family members. > > > > > > > > Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, > > termed > > > > the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- > > released > > > to > > > > public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a thorough > > > > investigation into the character and possible involvement of > Nilofar's > > > > husband and brother-in-law in the incident. > > > > > > > > The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed against > > > > Justice Jan. > > > > > > > > The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, has > > > also > > > > rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan > > > > commission's report as a "kitchen report". > > > > > > > > In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said the > > > > commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the > > victims > > > > which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. > > > > > > > > "It has not identified the culprits," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security > > > >> forces need to hang their head in shame. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had > > > >> ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The > > > >> examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and > > > >> Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During > her > > > >> visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed > relations > > > >> with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her > > > >> relations,'' the report said. " > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms > > > >> _________________________________________ > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Aditya Raj Kaul From navayana at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 19:14:56 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:14:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Oppose "UCLA-Sardar Patel dissertation award" Message-ID: Dear friends Instituted in 1999, the UCLA-Sardar Patel Dissertation Award ( http://www.international.ucla.edu/southasia/patel/index.asp) is its ninth year now. I am not an academic, and have hence come to know of this award rather late -- owing to a notice posted on H-Net. However, even the belated knowledge of the naming of the award after Sardar Patel has distressed and disturbed me. It is unfortunate that the award for “the best dissertation submitted at any American university on the subject of modern India” should be named after Sardar Patel--a man who (along with K.M. Munshi) was responsible for the rebuilding of the Somnath temple, which was partly destroyed by the Mahmud of Ghazni in the 11th century. Patel, as Home Minister and Deputy Prime Minister, was the one of the apologists for hindutva within the Congress. In November 1947, when the Nawab of Junagadh sought to merge his “princely state” with Pakistan, Patel opposed this, and directed the occupation of Junagadh by the Indian Army. At the same time, he announced that the Somnath temple there would be rebuilt. “The restoration of the idols would be a point of honour and sentiment with the Hindu public,” he had said then. This laid the foundation for the latter-day rightwing Hindutva claims over Ayodhya and the demolition of the Babri mosque in 1992. That a dissertation should be awarded a USD 10,000 prize in Patel's name is highly regrettable. The award boasts of an impressive list of 'secular' recipients who seem to have not even flinched either while applying for an award in honour of Sardar Patel or on receiving it. What is also shocking is that, today, the redoubtable, secular historian Sanjay Subrahmanyam--one of the best contemporary historians from India--adjudicates such an award in his capacity as Professor of History and Director of CISA (the UCLA Center for India and South Asia). < http://www.international.ucla.edu/asia/members/person.asp?Facultystaff_ID=476 > For a history of the award and its association with UCLA, see http://www.sardarpatelaward.com/. While the left-secular voices in the US were rightly sensitive to the 2006 California Textbook Controversy (CTC) < http://stopfundinghate.org/FxH/022706LettertoCBE.htm> it is regrettable that in 1999 such an award was instituted at a premier centre such as UCLA with no squeak of a protest. It is our silence on such issues that makes possible larger rightwing incursions such as Saraswati Vandana or CTC. The UCLA award bestows on a rightwing hawk like Sardar Patel respect and legitimacy in academic circles, especially because it is 'independently' decided and because it boasts of 'secular' recipients, such as Srirupa Roy in 2000 who is now faculty at University of Massachusetts, Amherst ( http://www.umass.edu/polsci/faculty_staff/index.html). The Sardar Patel award's home page unabashedly boasts: “Ordinary people in India, conversant with the message in the Gita, regarded these three great leaders [Gandhi, Nehru, Patel] as yugapurushas, with a specific mission to accomplish on earth." So Patel is an avatar, a yuga-purusha! Would it be logical to believe that those who adjudicate the award, and receive it, believe in the Gita and in Patel being a yug-purush? Unsurprisingly, the board of Friends of Sardar Patel Award Association (FSPAA) ( http://www.sardarpatelaward.com/fspaa.htm) is filled with Gujarati Hindus, mostly husband–wife couples. There is not one Muslim name among the charter members or advisors of the Award Association--going against the priniciples of diversity that most American universities take pride in, includng UCLA ( http://www.diversity.ucla.edu/). What can be done now--after nine years? It is not likely that UCLA was unaware of the politics of Vallabhai Patel and his rightwing proclivities. Suppose the followers of V.D. Savarkar or M.S. Golwalkar should decide to offer an endowment (like Patel's overseas friends) to UCLA, would a similar award be instituted? Should we 'tolerate' and make concessions to the rightwing within the Congress party and oppose only the hindutva of the Bharatiya Janata Party? What if an award in the name of Shyama Prasad Mookherjee (Hindu Mahasabha and Bharatiya Jan Sangh leader) should be instituted--would his having been a minister in Jawahalal Nehru’s first cabinet render him acceptable? Perhaps UCLA can now reconsider its association with such an award. Friends in the academia and others who feel similarly about this award could write to UCLA. ( http://www.international.ucla.edu/southasia/patel/article.asp?parentid=93390 ) S. Anand anand AT navayana.org Publisher Navayana (www.navayana.org) Navayana Publishing 120, Ground Floor Shahpur Jat New Delhi 110049 From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 19:17:46 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:17:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <6353c690907120540y3570fe06qa2d39b98a51d212e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907120528wf977fd9w6c2e331362097182@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120534j6aba02f2hba1dacfb96213d7e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907120540y3570fe06qa2d39b98a51d212e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907120647i59df9f42o98b71bfcdddac15a@mail.gmail.com> This should help for sure. Thanks for posting so many different versions of the same issue. -anupam On 7/12/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Shopian rape, murders a family feud?*M Saleem Pandit , 12 July 2009 > The Times of India > > Link - > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms > * > SRINAGAR: The one-man panel appointed by the J&K government to probe the > rape and murder of two women in Shopian appears to have gone soft on > > Related Articles > > - Cops involved in Shopian rape, murder: J&K > govt > - 'Men in uniform are Kashmir's problem, not > solution' > - EDITORIAL COMMENT | Kashmiri > RouletteExpand > [+] > - Blog:: Army retreat from Jammu and Kashmir will be > suicidal< > http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Hard-copy/entry/it-s-a-war-keep> > - How To Resolve > Kashmir< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/OPINION-Edit-Page-TOP-ARTICLE-How-To-Resolve-Kashmir/articleshow/4191064.cms > > > - Exhume bodies of Shopian rape victims: > HC< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India-Exhume-bodies-of-Shopian-rape-victims-HC/articleshow/4737169.cms > > > - Baramulla tense, CRPF withdrawn from > area< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India-Tension-in-JK-Army-ambulance-set-ablaze-/articleshow/4723148.cms > > > - Probe confirms Shopian rape, murder; blames cops for 'destroying > evidence'< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Police-admn-destroyed-proof-in-Shopian-case/articleshow/4686313.cms > > > - AFPSA is 'necessary' to fight militancy: Pallam Raju > < > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-AFPSA-is-necessary-to-fight-militancy-Pallam-Raju-/articleshow/4721397.cms > > > - Will Kashmir be safer, happier without > Army?< > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-Sunday-TOI-Special-Report-Will-Kashmir-be-safer-happier-without-Army/articleshow/4653282.cms > >Collapse > [-] > > security forces accused of the crimes and has instead said that the > killings > could be a result of a family feud. It said that the victims' brothers > could > be suspects. > > Pointing out that the conclusive evidence to identify the culprits has not > been furnished because of various constraints, the panel said the > involvement of some agency of the J&K police, in the present incident, > cannot be completely ruled out. > > Bodies of Neelofer (22) and her sister-in-law Asiya (17) were recovered > from > a stream on May 30 after they disappeared from their orchards in Shopian > town the previous evening, sparking off massive protest by locals who > suspected the hand of security personnel in the case. > > In the face of public outcry across the Valley, the state government had on > June 3 appointed a commission headed by Justice Muzaffar Ahmad Jan to > investigate the circumstances leading to the deaths. > > Although the panel in its final 400-page report submitted to the government > last Tuesday has called for more investigation into the role of security > forces personnel, it has also brought out new ‘‘facts'' of the case. It has > cast doubts on the moral character of one of the victims, Neelofer Jan, and > her husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger, brother of second victim Asiya Jan. > > It said Neelofer Jan belonged to a higher caste of Peer, whereas Shakeel > came from Khaar family, which is included in the OBC category. The report > said ever since the two eloped in 2007, Neelofer's brother Syed Zeerak > Shah, > a constable in traffic department, was not happy with the marriage and had > even threatened the Ahanger family of dire consequences. ‘‘The conduct of > Zeerak Shah has been highly suspicious and objectionable after the death of > Neelofar and Asiya Jan,'' the commission said. > > Zeerak is also accused of having instigated the people against the > government. ‘‘A departmental action may be initiated against Shah,'' the > panel said. It also has said there was clear indication suggesting enmity > between Neelofar's maiden family and her in-laws. > > ‘‘Shakeel Ahanger does not carry a good reputation in the society and is > being known for his immoral activities. His assets are quite > disproportionate to his known sources of income, requiring investigation to > work out the possibility of Shakeel and his friends/associates' role in the > present incident,'' the report said. > > During the probe, the commission found that after eloping with Neelofar, > Ahanger had moved out of the district. He, however, returned and started > his > own business in readymade furniture and got separated from his family. > > ‘‘Despite the fact that he was taking care of education and other expenses > of two sisters, Roomi and Asiya, and was meeting additional expenditure > after the birth of his child, he purchased orchards and even a car,'' the > report pointed out. > > Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had ‘‘developed > contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The examination of the > witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and Asyia Jan were frequent > visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her visits in the last few > months, > Neelofar might have developed relations with other persons and Shakeel > might > have come to know about her relations,'' the report said. > > The panel, going beyond its terms of reference, has also criticized the > role > of the media in provoking people's sentiments and called for ‘‘firm > guidelines for reporting such news''. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 6:04 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > there is a HT report also attached to it. kindly have a look. im > surprised > > this is so-called seperatist paper is functioning in india with > legitimate > > quotes from the someone who is part of the commission. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/12/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > > > One would anyday trust a report by PTI and The Times of India or The > > Hindu > > > rather than a report by local separatist run newspaper The Rising > Kashmir > > > which has obvious bias and planted news. > > > > > > Period > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Jan Comn disowns part of report > > > > http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14798 > > > > Says Kashmir Police insisted to add Shakeel’s profile > > > > *Ishfaq Mir > > > > Srinagar, July 11: *The Justice (Retired) Jan Commission, which > > submitted > > > > its final report on rape and murder of two women in Shopian to > > government > > > > Saturday denied making any recommendations against the family members > > of > > > > the > > > > victims. > > > > The Commission said it has been wrongly interpreted and report about > > > > deceased Neelofer’s husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger is not from the > > > > Commission > > > > itself. “The impression about the two families especially Shakeel > Ahmad > > > > Ahanger given in the print and electronic media attributing the > remarks > > > to > > > > the Commission is not correct,” clarified Secretary Justice Jan > > > Commission, > > > > Mukhtar Ahmad Wani. > > > > He said, “In the entire report no observation has been made against > any > > > > member of the victim families by the Commission. Nothing has been > said > > > > about > > > > any family members. This was not the point of reference for the > > > Commission, > > > > so why should the Commission do it”. > > > > While clarifying he said, “The suspicions were projected before the > > > > Commission by the police investigating team. But they were not even > > > > considered or acted upon by the Commission and have been wrongly > > > attributed > > > > as observations of the Commission”. > > > > He said police investigation had traced the details of at least 5000 > > > calls > > > > and recorded the statements of more than 30 witnesses. So they wanted > > the > > > > investigation to be part of the report, but Commission refused to act > > > upon > > > > it or even consider it. Later the police ‘findings’ were enclosed in > > the > > > > report but neither as part nor as recommendation. > > > > “The government passed the entire information of the report to the > > media > > > > persons, causing confusion,” added Wani. > > > > Meanwhile, the Commission has taken up the matter with the government > > and > > > > sought its clarification. > > > > > > > > EOM > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination > < > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline=%27Shopian+report+character+assassination > > > > > < > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline=%27Shopian+report+character+assassination > > > > > > > > ' > > > > > > > > > > The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in > Kashmir's > > > > > Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, > > while > > > > > indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also > > > sought > > > > > investigation of the role of some family members. > > > > > > > > > > Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, > > > termed > > > > > the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- > > > released > > > > to > > > > > public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a > thorough > > > > > investigation into the character and possible involvement of > > Nilofar's > > > > > husband and brother-in-law in the incident. > > > > > > > > > > The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed > against > > > > > Justice Jan. > > > > > > > > > > The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, > has > > > > also > > > > > rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan > > > > > commission's report as a "kitchen report". > > > > > > > > > > In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said > the > > > > > commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the > > > victims > > > > > which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. > > > > > > > > > > "It has not identified the culprits," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security > > > > >> forces need to hang their head in shame. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had > > > > >> ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The > > > > >> examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi > and > > > > >> Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During > > her > > > > >> visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed > > relations > > > > >> with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her > > > > >> relations,'' the report said. " > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms > > > > >> _________________________________________ > > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > > >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > > > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > > > > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 19:19:09 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:19:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shopian Rape - A family Fued In-Reply-To: <341380d00907120647i59df9f42o98b71bfcdddac15a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120125t5189d24cn2eaa6a677a013ff6@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120208q46a5a3c7vbd46f156a15bcf6e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120210t46f44384o74989aeb4922f165@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907120528wf977fd9w6c2e331362097182@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120534j6aba02f2hba1dacfb96213d7e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907120540y3570fe06qa2d39b98a51d212e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907120647i59df9f42o98b71bfcdddac15a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907120649p7e4c936an53de2cecfafb0eb1@mail.gmail.com> Moreover, casting a doubt over someone's moral character of the victims should not stop from questioning the presence of the cops in the area. thanks anupam On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > This should help for sure. Thanks for posting so many different versions of > the same issue. > > -anupam > > On 7/12/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> Shopian rape, murders a family feud?*M Saleem Pandit , 12 July 2009 >> The Times of India >> >> Link - >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms >> * >> SRINAGAR: The one-man panel appointed by the J&K government to probe the >> rape and murder of two women in Shopian appears to have gone soft on >> >> Related Articles >> >> - Cops involved in Shopian rape, murder: J&K >> govt >> - 'Men in uniform are Kashmir's problem, not >> solution' >> - EDITORIAL COMMENT | Kashmiri >> Roulette> >Expand >> [+] >> - Blog:: Army retreat from Jammu and Kashmir will be >> suicidal< >> http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Hard-copy/entry/it-s-a-war-keep> >> - How To Resolve >> Kashmir< >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/OPINION-Edit-Page-TOP-ARTICLE-How-To-Resolve-Kashmir/articleshow/4191064.cms >> > >> - Exhume bodies of Shopian rape victims: >> HC< >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India-Exhume-bodies-of-Shopian-rape-victims-HC/articleshow/4737169.cms >> > >> - Baramulla tense, CRPF withdrawn from >> area< >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India-Tension-in-JK-Army-ambulance-set-ablaze-/articleshow/4723148.cms >> > >> - Probe confirms Shopian rape, murder; blames cops for 'destroying >> evidence'< >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Police-admn-destroyed-proof-in-Shopian-case/articleshow/4686313.cms >> > >> - AFPSA is 'necessary' to fight militancy: Pallam Raju >> < >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-AFPSA-is-necessary-to-fight-militancy-Pallam-Raju-/articleshow/4721397.cms >> > >> - Will Kashmir be safer, happier without >> Army?< >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-Sunday-TOI-Special-Report-Will-Kashmir-be-safer-happier-without-Army/articleshow/4653282.cms >> >Collapse >> [-] >> >> security forces accused of the crimes and has instead said that the >> killings >> could be a result of a family feud. It said that the victims' brothers >> could >> be suspects. >> >> Pointing out that the conclusive evidence to identify the culprits has not >> been furnished because of various constraints, the panel said the >> involvement of some agency of the J&K police, in the present incident, >> cannot be completely ruled out. >> >> Bodies of Neelofer (22) and her sister-in-law Asiya (17) were recovered >> from >> a stream on May 30 after they disappeared from their orchards in Shopian >> town the previous evening, sparking off massive protest by locals who >> suspected the hand of security personnel in the case. >> >> In the face of public outcry across the Valley, the state government had >> on >> June 3 appointed a commission headed by Justice Muzaffar Ahmad Jan to >> investigate the circumstances leading to the deaths. >> >> Although the panel in its final 400-page report submitted to the >> government >> last Tuesday has called for more investigation into the role of security >> forces personnel, it has also brought out new ‘‘facts'' of the case. It >> has >> cast doubts on the moral character of one of the victims, Neelofer Jan, >> and >> her husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger, brother of second victim Asiya Jan. >> >> It said Neelofer Jan belonged to a higher caste of Peer, whereas Shakeel >> came from Khaar family, which is included in the OBC category. The report >> said ever since the two eloped in 2007, Neelofer's brother Syed Zeerak >> Shah, >> a constable in traffic department, was not happy with the marriage and had >> even threatened the Ahanger family of dire consequences. ‘‘The conduct of >> Zeerak Shah has been highly suspicious and objectionable after the death >> of >> Neelofar and Asiya Jan,'' the commission said. >> >> Zeerak is also accused of having instigated the people against the >> government. ‘‘A departmental action may be initiated against Shah,'' the >> panel said. It also has said there was clear indication suggesting enmity >> between Neelofar's maiden family and her in-laws. >> >> ‘‘Shakeel Ahanger does not carry a good reputation in the society and is >> being known for his immoral activities. His assets are quite >> disproportionate to his known sources of income, requiring investigation >> to >> work out the possibility of Shakeel and his friends/associates' role in >> the >> present incident,'' the report said. >> >> During the probe, the commission found that after eloping with Neelofar, >> Ahanger had moved out of the district. He, however, returned and started >> his >> own business in readymade furniture and got separated from his family. >> >> ‘‘Despite the fact that he was taking care of education and other expenses >> of two sisters, Roomi and Asiya, and was meeting additional expenditure >> after the birth of his child, he purchased orchards and even a car,'' the >> report pointed out. >> >> Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had ‘‘developed >> contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The examination of the >> witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi and Asyia Jan were frequent >> visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During her visits in the last few >> months, >> Neelofar might have developed relations with other persons and Shakeel >> might >> have come to know about her relations,'' the report said. >> >> The panel, going beyond its terms of reference, has also criticized the >> role >> of the media in provoking people's sentiments and called for ‘‘firm >> guidelines for reporting such news''. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 6:04 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: >> >> > there is a HT report also attached to it. kindly have a look. im >> surprised >> > this is so-called seperatist paper is functioning in india with >> legitimate >> > quotes from the someone who is part of the commission. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > On 7/12/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> > > >> > > One would anyday trust a report by PTI and The Times of India or The >> > Hindu >> > > rather than a report by local separatist run newspaper The Rising >> Kashmir >> > > which has obvious bias and planted news. >> > > >> > > Period >> > > >> > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 2:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > Jan Comn disowns part of report >> > > > http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14798 >> > > > Says Kashmir Police insisted to add Shakeel’s profile >> > > > *Ishfaq Mir >> > > > Srinagar, July 11: *The Justice (Retired) Jan Commission, which >> > submitted >> > > > its final report on rape and murder of two women in Shopian to >> > government >> > > > Saturday denied making any recommendations against the family >> members >> > of >> > > > the >> > > > victims. >> > > > The Commission said it has been wrongly interpreted and report about >> > > > deceased Neelofer’s husband Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger is not from the >> > > > Commission >> > > > itself. “The impression about the two families especially Shakeel >> Ahmad >> > > > Ahanger given in the print and electronic media attributing the >> remarks >> > > to >> > > > the Commission is not correct,” clarified Secretary Justice Jan >> > > Commission, >> > > > Mukhtar Ahmad Wani. >> > > > He said, “In the entire report no observation has been made against >> any >> > > > member of the victim families by the Commission. Nothing has been >> said >> > > > about >> > > > any family members. This was not the point of reference for the >> > > Commission, >> > > > so why should the Commission do it”. >> > > > While clarifying he said, “The suspicions were projected before the >> > > > Commission by the police investigating team. But they were not even >> > > > considered or acted upon by the Commission and have been wrongly >> > > attributed >> > > > as observations of the Commission”. >> > > > He said police investigation had traced the details of at least 5000 >> > > calls >> > > > and recorded the statements of more than 30 witnesses. So they >> wanted >> > the >> > > > investigation to be part of the report, but Commission refused to >> act >> > > upon >> > > > it or even consider it. Later the police ‘findings’ were enclosed in >> > the >> > > > report but neither as part nor as recommendation. >> > > > “The government passed the entire information of the report to the >> > media >> > > > persons, causing confusion,” added Wani. >> > > > Meanwhile, the Commission has taken up the matter with the >> government >> > and >> > > > sought its clarification. >> > > > >> > > > EOM >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 7/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline='Shopian+report+character+assassination >> < >> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline=%27Shopian+report+character+assassination >> > >> > > < >> > > >> > >> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=96212f27-b2ee-4e19-b92a-f773c3ec6be9&Headline=%27Shopian+report+character+assassination >> > > > >> > > > ' >> > > > > >> > > > > The relatives of the two women found raped and murdered in >> Kashmir's >> > > > > Shopian town have rejected the judicial commission report which, >> > while >> > > > > indicting local police officials for destruction of evidence, also >> > > sought >> > > > > investigation of the role of some family members. >> > > > > >> > > > > Relatives of Nilofar Jan, 22, and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, 17, >> > > termed >> > > > > the one-man Justice (retired) Muzaffar Jan commission report -- >> > > released >> > > > to >> > > > > public Friday -- as "character assassination" for seeking a >> thorough >> > > > > investigation into the character and possible involvement of >> > Nilofar's >> > > > > husband and brother-in-law in the incident. >> > > > > >> > > > > The relatives of the victims have also threatened to proceed >> against >> > > > > Justice Jan. >> > > > > >> > > > > The Shopian agitation committee, formed in the wake of the crime, >> has >> > > > also >> > > > > rejected the probe findings, terming it as "a cover up operation". >> > > > > >> > > > > Meanwhile, the Kashmir Bar Association has termed the Justice Jan >> > > > > commission's report as a "kitchen report". >> > > > > >> > > > > In a statement, local bar association president Mian Qayoom said >> the >> > > > > commission had commented on the character of the relatives of the >> > > victims >> > > > > which was not included in the commission's terms of reference. >> > > > > >> > > > > "It has not identified the culprits," he said. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 7/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> I hope that all those in this group who pointedly blamed security >> > > > >> forces need to hang their head in shame. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> "Doubting the character of Neelofer, Justice Jan said she had >> > > > >> ‘‘developed contacts'' at an orchard in Nagabal, Shopian. ‘‘The >> > > > >> examination of the witnesses has suggested that Neelofer, Roomi >> and >> > > > >> Asyia Jan were frequent visitors to an orchard at Nagabal. During >> > her >> > > > >> visits in the last few months, Neelofar might have developed >> > relations >> > > > >> with other persons and Shakeel might have come to know about her >> > > > >> relations,'' the report said. " >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS-India-Shopian-rape-murders-a-family-feud/articleshow/4768680.cms >> > > > >> _________________________________________ >> > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> > > > >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > > >> > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India >> > > Cell - +91-9873297834 >> > > >> > > Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 12 19:34:08 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:04:08 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Sania below BPL & Married ! - Jai Ho In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907120702h29a7ba62l63c7036957ec9181@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907120459n3dc9d505x945df21d53acfeaf@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907120702h29a7ba62l63c7036957ec9181@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907120704g50691b87s8c42d20523ce7180@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan, Thanks for posting the story. I do know that most news media are in the business of creating impressions of those events which are unfolding in real time but I didn't know that BBC specializes in churning out stale news too. The other view to such an argument, I call it blame the media argument, could be, that of course, they are doing whatever they could, to sustain an impression and therefore we must show our gratitude to them for posting this story which is very important to us. However I so wish that in the process of churning stale news those who write for BBC could also invest some moments of their precious time to do their math- Nearly 24 million ration cards are in circulation in Andhra Pradesh, > which has only 19 million households. That means that over four > million cards in the state are bogus. 24-19= 5 and not four as indicated. This figure is important because we are talking about a possibility of a perception of one hundred thousand bogus or fake ration cards. I think, even if, in reality the figures quoted were to be taken to false then too, the perception of such reality carries a lot of weight. Plus, one more thing, are all households of Andhra Pradesh eligible for a ration card? If not, then how did this venerable journalist reached to a conclusion that, ' That means that over four million cards in the state are bogus.' when the total household indicated as per story seems to be, 'only 19 million'. The other view of the same story relates to one which I posted on the reader list about ten days ago and which could be accessed here- http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-July/020619.html Now we have two versions of the same story. The one which is so kindly posted by you relates to how BBC would like us to view this story and the other is the PTI version. According to the PTI version, 'The Chief Minister himself revealed in the state Assembly three days ago that there were as many as 2.15 crore white ration cards,' While the version from BBC is that, 'Nearly 24 million ration cards are in circulation in Andhra Pradesh, which has only 19 million households.' Therefore PTI says quoting CM of AP that there are 2.15 crore ration cards while BBC says quoting no one, (after all it's the BBC stupid! they cannot be bothered with who said what, they need to concentrate on the big picture) that, 'Nearly 24 million ration cards are in circulation in Andhra Pradesh,' Now our predicament is, who are we to believe? What does 'nearly' as suggested in the BBC story, stands for? Could it be 'nearly' 2.15 crore? Maybe. Could it be 'nearly' 2..35 Crore? Maybe. Is there a conspiracy to maybe re-introduce 2.40-2.15= 25 Lakh bogus cards again in the system? Why are there two versions of facts or numbers. Variations in representation of a social reality, I can understand but variations in representation of numbers!! Don't you find it a little curious? I would of course assume that the State Govt. of AP must have issued some data. Then why are we not told the truth as it appears in the official records? I would assume that A.P govt must have relied on some survey to reach at this bit of statistic. I would assume that since no census happened since 2001. The govt. must be relying on 2001 figures. The 2001 figures, with respect to 'households' in AP is- 170.04 Lakhs or 1.7004 crores and the Government assumes for the purpose of the survey that a house hold has four persons. This data which was published on 1/22/2008 could be accessed here- http://www.aponline.gov.in/quick%20links/departments/health,%20medical%20and%20family%20welfare/commissionerate%20of%20family%20welfare/about/index_20032008.html However there is another version, according to AP Consumer Affairs, Food & Civil Supplies Department, the department in charge of issuing ration cards, the number of Households are in fact, 1.68 Crores. This data was issued on 6/13/2005. ( http://www.aponline.gov.in/quick%20links/departments/consumer%20affairs%20food%20&%20civil%20supplies/c%20s%20s,%20commissionerate%20of%20civil%20supplies/copy%20of%20about/index.html) One wonders how could the household count in Andhra Pradesh might have gone down from 1.7004 crores in 2001 to 1.68 Crores in 2005? There is something else too, ration cards are distributed in four categories in Andhra Pradesh. These categories are White, A.A.Y, Annapurna, and Pink these are then channeled through various administrative units belonging to three types districts, mandals and stockist points. The stoskist point or shops are simultaneously classified as urban and rural. Now there are 40,971 such shops in Andhra. The BBC and PTI and Tribune have done their job by giving a platform to one such anomaly in the system. But what about the rest? If this is the state of ration cards, then can one not imagine, what will happen in case of MNIC? To sum up- No of households in AP ? BBC version- 19 million households AP version- 17 million households If these cards are going to be the basic documents which could be called upon to produce as an evidence of one's Indian Citizenship and therefore, whoever produces such cards might eventually be given the most clear, concrete token of ones identity i.e. the MNIC card or the UID card. Then one can only imagine what sort of a grand exercise Nandan Nilekani Saheb and his team is going to engage in. Why do we need to spend all of 1.5 Lakh crore rupees for one more round of this seemingly genuine exercise in futility? Warm regards Taha http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090614/main7.htm Sania belongs to BPL family! Hyderabad, June 13 Tennis star Sania Mirza may be a millionaire but her face appears on a ration card belonging to a below poverty line (BPL) family in Andhra Pradesh. The white ration card, which makes a family eligible to get rice at a highly-subsidised price of Rs 2-a-kg and social security benefits health insurance and a permanent housing, has been issued to one Laxmi of Vizianagaram district with a photograph of Sania. The revelation of the case has invited the wrath of Chief Minister Y S Rajasekhara Reddy who reviewed the social security schemes at a high-level meeting here today, sources in the CMO said. This only showed how blindly the ration cards were issued without any proper verification, the Chief Minister reportedly fumed at officials of the Civil Supplies Department. While the state population is about 8.3 crore, the population figure, as per the number of ration cards issued, crossed 9.8 crore. The Chief Minister himself revealed in the state Assembly three days ago that there were as many as 2.15 crore white ration cards, making those families eligible to draw subsidised rice and avail of other welfare schemes. — PTI - Hide quoted text - On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8118113.stm > > Sania Mirza 'below poverty line' > > By Omer Farooq in Hyderabad > > > Sania Mirza is ranked 85 in world women's tennis > Indian tennis star Sania Mirza lives below the poverty line, if > government records in the southern state of Andhra Pradesh are to > believed. > A special ration card for poor people carrying Mirza's name and > photograph has been recovered during investigations, officials say. > The card issued in Vizianagaram district also mentions a local > 20-year-old man as her husband. > Mirza, who is one of the top ranking players, is unmarried. > The 22-year-old player, ranked 85 in the world, crashed out of > Wimbledon in the second round on Wednesday. > The BPL (Below Poverty Line) ration cards entitles beneficiaries to > cheap rice at two rupees (less than 5 cents) a kilogramme, a pension, > housing and free health insurance. > Bogus cards > The fraudulent card carrying Mirza's name and photograph was issued in > the Vepadu village in Vizianagaram state by the revenue department. > Mirza, who is one of India's richest sportspeople, lives in an > up-market neighbourhood in the state capital, Hyderabad. > > The one-per-household BPL cards are only supposed to be issued after > married couples personally appear before the authorities and have > their pictures taken together in a single picture frame. > But in this case, the ration card carried two separate pictures of > Mirza and someone called "Mr Narayana" in contravention of the law. > In this case it appears that the holder of the card may have been > single and put the tennis star's name and photograph alongside his - > claiming her to be his wife. > An angry Chief Minister YS Rajasekhar Reddy has ordered an > investigation into the matter. > "Find out whether the officer who issued this card in the name of > Sania Mirza is a mad man. How can any one can do it? It is height of > negligence," he told his officers. > The government now says an estimated 4.5 million such bogus ration > cards in the state should be weeded out during the drive to be > launched from next month. > Other bogus cards show photographs of beneficiaries travelling in a > Skoda car and a train. > The drive will also target ration shop dealers who also use the bogus > cards to siphon the cheap rice and sell it at a higher price in open > market. > Nearly 24 million ration cards are in circulation in Andhra Pradesh, > which has only 19 million households. That means that over four > million cards in the state are bogus. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 19:57:07 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:27:07 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] ACADEMIA: UCLA-Sardar Patel Award Debate Message-ID: "While the left-secular voices in the US were rightly sensitive to the 2006 California Textbook Controversy (CTC) it is regrettable that in 1999 such an award was instituted at a premier centre such as UCLA with no squeak of a protest. It is our silence on such issues that makes possible larger rightwing incursions such as Saraswati Vandana or CTC. The UCLA award bestows on a rightwing hawk like Sardar Patel respect and legitimacy in academic circles, especially because it is ‘independently’ decided and because it boasts of ’secular’ recipients, such as Srirupa Roy in 2000 who is now faculty at University of Massachusetts, Amherst." UCLA-Sardar Patel award http://navayana.org/?p=644 From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Jul 12 20:03:31 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:33:31 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Kimjongilia - North Korea film screening Message-ID: <14117756.1247409212582.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I just thought you all would enjoy this... I'm presenting a benefit screening for a friends new film about North Korea. All proceeds of the evening go to help raise awareness about the situation in North Korea. We're expecting quite a few people, so I just wanted to give you all a headz up. Basically, it's about human rights. Tix are by donation but we're asking everyone to donate $20 bring friends! Kimjongilia: A Film about North Korea by NC Heikin http://www.kimjongiliathemovie.com/ The film screening is on Monday - July 13, 7:30pm at Anthology Film Archives 32 Second Ave NY NY 1003 come and hang out! There'll be lots of people from different scenes, and I think it's going to be a great dialog with several human rights advocates for North Korea. We're also having a raffle of T-shirts a la this one, and will have limited edition posters I've designed to be raffled away to benefit human rights screenings of the film. I hope you can make it. Paul From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 20:49:25 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:49:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sreedharan's resignation shocks DMRC workers Message-ID: <6353c690907120819s1b703dch6f0c982491c1a0f@mail.gmail.com> *Sreedharan's resignation shocks DMRC workers* New Delhi (PTI) As E. Sreedharan walked out of the eight-storey 'Metro Bhawan' on Sunday after resigning as its chief, his colleagues said they were shocked by the decision of the "strong but very simple leader". DMRC officials and workers said Mr. Sreedharan's dramatic announcement that he was resigning came as a "rude shock" for them as they never expected such a decision from him following the accident. "He is a very simple man who took strong decisions regarding the Delhi Metro. If not for him, the DMRC would not have come to this level and completed projects well ahead of schedule," a DMRC official, who requested anonymity, said. "We are really upset with his decision and we also know that he won't go back on his decision to quit. I can say one thing for sure that no one can replace him in DMRC," he said. The official said Mr. Sreedharan completed several projects of the Delhi Metro well ahead of the schedule. "Any other country will take 50 years to achieve what Mr. Sreedharan has achieved in 10 years." Another worker at DMRC said Mr. Sreedharan was a "very simple man and his decision has demoralised every worker of the company". "It came as a shock for us that he is resigning... we never expected such a hard decision from him," the worker said. From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 23:13:00 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:43:00 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Oppose "UCLA-Sardar Patel dissertation award" References: Message-ID: <98C3FA15370D4D96B376B4101C0FB150@tara> It is one thing to speak for the cause of Hindus, it is completely different to spread hatred against people of other faith/s. The below mail does not show how Patel was against non-Hindus. If reconstructing Somnath temple equates Patel with SPM, those like me who speak for the reconstruction of Babri Masjid can be equated with Osama bin Laden. It is merely question of perspective. I believe there are other ways of seeking publicity that are less cheap than the one currently employed by Navayana Publishing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Navayana Publishing" To: Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Oppose "UCLA-Sardar Patel dissertation award" > Dear friends > > Instituted in 1999, the UCLA-Sardar Patel Dissertation Award ( > http://www.international.ucla.edu/southasia/patel/index.asp) is its ninth > year now. I am not an academic, and have hence come to know of this award > rather late -- owing to a notice posted on H-Net. > > However, even the belated knowledge of the naming of the award after > Sardar > Patel has distressed and disturbed me. It is unfortunate that the award > for > “the best dissertation submitted at any American university on the subject > of modern India” should be named after Sardar Patel--a man who (along with > K.M. Munshi) was responsible for the rebuilding of the Somnath temple, > which > was partly destroyed by the Mahmud of Ghazni in the 11th century. Patel, > as > Home Minister and Deputy Prime Minister, was the one of the apologists for > hindutva within the Congress. In November 1947, when the Nawab of Junagadh > sought to merge his “princely state” with Pakistan, Patel opposed this, > and > directed the occupation of Junagadh by the Indian Army. At the same time, > he > announced that the Somnath temple there would be rebuilt. “The restoration > of the idols would be a point of honour and sentiment with the Hindu > public,” he had said then. > > This laid the foundation for the latter-day rightwing Hindutva claims over > Ayodhya and the demolition of the Babri mosque in 1992. That a > dissertation > should be awarded a USD 10,000 prize in Patel's name is highly > regrettable. > The award boasts of an impressive list of 'secular' recipients who seem to > have not even flinched either while applying for an award in honour of > Sardar Patel or on receiving it. > > What is also shocking is that, today, the redoubtable, secular historian > Sanjay Subrahmanyam--one of the best contemporary historians from > India--adjudicates such an award in his capacity as Professor of History > and > Director of CISA (the UCLA Center for India and South Asia). < > http://www.international.ucla.edu/asia/members/person.asp?Facultystaff_ID=476 >> > > For a history of the award and its association with UCLA, see > http://www.sardarpatelaward.com/. > > While the left-secular voices in the US were rightly sensitive to the 2006 > California Textbook Controversy (CTC) < > http://stopfundinghate.org/FxH/022706LettertoCBE.htm> it is regrettable > that > in 1999 such an award was instituted at a premier centre such as UCLA with > no squeak of a protest. It is our silence on such issues that makes > possible > larger rightwing incursions such as Saraswati Vandana or CTC. The UCLA > award > bestows on a rightwing hawk like Sardar Patel respect and legitimacy in > academic circles, especially because it is 'independently' decided and > because it boasts of 'secular' recipients, such as Srirupa Roy in 2000 who > is now faculty at University of Massachusetts, Amherst ( > http://www.umass.edu/polsci/faculty_staff/index.html). > > The Sardar Patel award's home page unabashedly boasts: “Ordinary people in > India, conversant with the message in the Gita, regarded these three great > leaders [Gandhi, Nehru, Patel] as yugapurushas, with a specific mission > to > accomplish on earth." So Patel is an avatar, a yuga-purusha! Would it be > logical to believe that those who adjudicate the award, and receive it, > believe in the Gita and in Patel being a yug-purush? Unsurprisingly, the > board of Friends of Sardar Patel Award Association (FSPAA) ( > http://www.sardarpatelaward.com/fspaa.htm) is filled with Gujarati Hindus, > mostly husband–wife couples. There is not one Muslim name among the > charter > members or advisors of the Award Association--going against the > priniciples > of diversity that most American universities take pride in, includng UCLA > ( > http://www.diversity.ucla.edu/). > > What can be done now--after nine years? It is not likely that UCLA was > unaware of the politics of Vallabhai Patel and his rightwing proclivities. > Suppose the followers of V.D. Savarkar or M.S. Golwalkar should decide to > offer an endowment (like Patel's overseas friends) to UCLA, would a > similar > award be instituted? Should we 'tolerate' and make concessions to the > rightwing within the Congress party and oppose only the hindutva of the > Bharatiya Janata Party? What if an award in the name of Shyama Prasad > Mookherjee (Hindu Mahasabha and Bharatiya Jan Sangh leader) should be > instituted--would his having been a minister in Jawahalal Nehru’s first > cabinet render him acceptable? > > Perhaps UCLA can now reconsider its association with such an award. > > Friends in the academia and others who feel similarly about this award > could > write to UCLA. ( > http://www.international.ucla.edu/southasia/patel/article.asp?parentid=93390 > ) > > S. Anand > anand AT navayana.org > > Publisher > Navayana (www.navayana.org) > > Navayana Publishing > 120, Ground Floor > Shahpur Jat > New Delhi 110049 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From justjunaid at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 02:15:08 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:15:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] INDIAN GOVT. CRACKSDOWN BEFORE THE PROPOSED JULY 13 MARCH Message-ID: INDIAN GOVT. CRACKSDOWN BEFORE THE PROPOSED JULY 13 MARCH Media reports from Kashmir suggest that Indian government is cracking-down heavily on Kashmiris to prevent people from joining a peaceful rally scheduled for today. The planed rally dubbed as "Lal Chowk Chalo" was given by Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and many other pro-freedom leaders. July 13 is observed each year as a Martyrs Day because on July 13, 1931 the Dogra monarch ordered his troops to open fire on hundreds of unarned Kashmiri protestors killing dozens of them. The July 13 and other related events became part of the Kashmiri national history as one of the first pan-Kashmir national struggle for justice and against discrimination based of religion. For many years National Conference appropriated this national event and made it part of their exclusive history, forgetting that when the uprising took place in 1931 National Conference was not even born. There was Muslim Conference at that time, from which National Conference broke away in 1939. Just after August 1947 when communalists in Jammu (including Jana Sangh and Praja Parishad) went on a mass slaughter campaign against the region's Muslims--effectively killing and pushing out half-a million Muslims out of the Jammu region, many leaders and activists of Muslim Conference were executed or sent into exile. Since then National Conference (which saw itself as Kashmir itself, and not just as a group) made July 13 as one of its major achievements. July 13 in Kashmir is a holiday and usually NC holds an event at Naqshbadi Sahab where many of the people killed on July 13 are buried. But they never let anyone else do anything there, except for providing space to pro-India parties like PDP and Congress to say a few words. When pro-freedom leaders declared July 13 as a National Day for Kashmir and planned a peaceful rally to the political heart of Srinagar the Lal Chowk--Red Square, Indian government and their local minions--the NC-led self-imposed government of Kashmir--decided to crack down upon people. Not only were hundreds of youth picked up from many Kashmiri towns and cities and subjected to threat, torture and incarceration, but most of the pro-freedom leaders were sent to jail. Some leaders have been imprisoned on charges as ridiculous as "hate-speech" given five years back! Kashmir has become a calamity and a zone where India affords itself total impunity through military force and its international clout. The proven rape and murder of the two women from Shopian are suddenly given unbelievable twists by Indian nationalist press and journalist. The Hindu's correspondent, Praveen Swami, who is widely discredited in Kashmir, but believed like a god in India, and whose stories it seems come neatly written from IB's Kashmir desk, suddenly found exciting news over the issue. Keeping his Extreme Right Wolf in a Self-Righteous Left-Wing Sheep garb image in Kashmir intact, he took no time to trounce upon the totally wrong story that Jan Commision has cast doubt on the family-members of the two victims (which in anycase was not in the commission's terms of reference). While Justice Jan has openly stated that the annexure where the family is indicted was drafted by Police and handed over to him and was just put there on file, and not even as record, and defintely not part of any suggestions, and has no impact on the case, Swami leapt up in joy and spread the story that Jan had indicted the family. It is funny that no Indian is willing to believe that their murderous troops in Kashmir can rape and murder innocents, and some even asked members on the readerlist to hang their heads in shame for trying to speak the truth. The Greeeat Democracy's forces are stamping out the last resistance to its criminal rule in Kashmir. Its Big Media is marching with them alongside shoulder to shoulder spewing lies and breeding hate. The literate Indians who are interested in Kashmir gulp down each lie that comes their way and truly believe them like articles of religious faith. But as Faiz said, "Why complain? Holding up our sorrows as banners, new lovers will emerge from the lanes where we were killed and embark, in caravans, on those highways of desire. It’s because of them that we shortened the distances of sorrow, it’s because of them that we went out to make the world our own, we who were murdered in the darkest lanes." Junaid From vivek at sarai.net Mon Jul 13 13:46:26 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:46:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Srinivas Rayaprol Poetry Prize 2009 Message-ID: <4A5AED5A.5080809@sarai.net> The Srinivas Rayaprol Poetry Prize 2009 Call for Entries Entries are invited from young poets in India writing in English for the inaugural Srinivas Rayaprol Poetry Prize. The Prize was instituted by the Srinivas Rayaprol Literary Trust to recognize excellence in poetry written in English and is being administered jointly by the Department of English, University of Hyderabad. The prize consisting of a cash award of Rs.10, 000 and a citation will be presented annually at a literary event in Hyderabad in the month of October. The entries will be judged by a distinguished jury of poets and literary personalities. Entries are invited from all Indian citizens between 20-40 years old and writing poetry in English. Entries must include: 1. Five (5) different poems written by the applicant; 2. Evidence of age 3. Complete contact information (including phone numbers and email addresses) Note: Please do not put your name on the poems to be submitted to the jury members. Entries must reach: Dr. Aparna Rayaprol Convener, Srinivas Rayaprol Poetry Prize c/o Study in India Program University of Hyderabad Hyderabad 500046 rayaproltrust at gmail.com Deadline: September 1, 2009 The winner will be announced latest by the first week of October and arrangements for the travel and accommodation for the person chosen for the award will be made by the Trust and the Department of English, University of Hyderabad. The Srinivas Rayaprol Literary Trust was started in the year 2000 to perpetuate the memory of the poet and also promote Indian writing in English. Srinivas Rayaprol (1925-1998), the son of the famous Telugu poet Rayaprolu Subba Rao, is considered one of the significant personalities of the early Indian English Poetry in India. His three major volumes of poetry are Bones and Distances, Married Love and Other Poems, and Selected Poems, all published by Writers’ Workshop in Calcutta. Srinivas Rayaprol Literary Trust Department of English, University of Hyderabad From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Jul 13 15:42:00 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:42:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran Discussions on the Reader-List (I) Message-ID: <7abb4a346813f081454ecd25ddec27ce@sarai.net> Dear Junaid, dear all on the list, A few weeks ago, we had the inauguration of a useful and interesting thread (Iran Discussions on the Reader-List) on the situation in Iran, which marked what I hope is the beginning of the end of South Asian, particularly, Indian narcissism and self-obsession on this list. I would like to return to that exchange in the spirit of open discussion, and invite you all to participate in it and take it further. Junaid, (with whom, as I have said before, I am usually in agreement, and whose contributions from and on Kashmir I consider to be especially valuable) had raised a number of significant objections to my reflections on the 'post-election' scenario in Iran. His arguments, can be summarized under the following heads: 1. The progress made by Iran in social and economic spheres since the establishment of the Islamic Republic. The position of women. Comparison with India and other developing economies. 2. Ahmadinejad's social base and the economic implications of his policies as the basis for his supposed popularity. Ahmadinejad as a channel for subaltern articulations in Iran. The question of whether or not the 'opposition' to Ahmadinejad is rooted in 'urban elitism' and a class bias. 3. The role played by religion in Iranian political life at the popular level, and the popular legitimacy of the institutionalization of religion and the clergy in the political structures of the Islamic republic. 4. More specifically, the role of the Guardian Council 5. The nature and reality of anti-zionism, and its distinction from anti-semitism, in the political imagination of Ahmadinejad. 6. The rhetoric of anti-Imperialism, and its place in a resistant political imagination. 7. Finally, a plea as to why there should be inordinate attention focused on repressive tactics used by the Basij (the official militia subordinate to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards of Pasdaran) while similar tactics, when employed in say, India, with regard to the repression of the Honda workers, does not invite comment. 8. The question of 'hatred' towards Iran, the Khamenei-Ahmedinejad Regime, the issue of comparison with Israel, with Natanyahu etc. I would like to take each of these in turn, and respond to them in some detail. So apologies in advance for what might be a lengthy set of postings In this posting I will respond to the first two of the above set of points. <1. The progress made by Iran in social and economic spheres since the establishment of the Islamic Republic. The position of women. Comparison with India and other developing economies> and <2. Ahmadinejad's social base and the economic implications of his policies as the basis for his supposed popularity. Ahmadinejad as a channel for subaltern articulations in Iran. The question of whether or not the 'opposition' to Ahmadinejad is rooted in 'urban elitism' and a class bias.> looking forward to responses and discussion, critical as well as otherwise, best, Shuddha ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iran is no doubt a wealthy country, and its wealth primarily depends on its substantial oil and gas resources, and a moderately sized manufacturing and services sector, fuelled by a relatively well educated and productive workforce. There have no doubt been substantial gains made in education and literacy, particularly women's education and in primary health care. Paradoxically, much of the foundation for the generalized improvement in basics like health and education, dates to the period of the Shah's 'White Revolution' when a substantial measure of land reform freed large sections of the rural population from land based servitude, initiated women's education and basic health services, financed to some extent by the increase in oil revenues following the oil shocks. It was this population, that came of age in the early years of the Islamic Republic. The HDI indicators that Junaid mentions have been consistently high for Iran vis-a-vis other developing countries, and this secular trend of a rising standard of living predates the establishment of the Islamic Republic. There has been definitely a much larger involvement of women in Iran in higher education and employment in the post Islamic Revolutionary period. But this has happened co-incident with a steady erosion of women's legal rights, and their rights to equal pay for equal work and other rights in the workplace. Iran continues to be a non signatory to the UN charter on women's rights. The high visibility of women in the workforce and in education has also something to do with the actuality of the consequences of the Iran-Iraq war. Iran lost something close to one million able bodied men of working age in the Iran Iraq war. And just as the 'missing millions' of European and Russian men after the first and second world wars brought millions of women into the workforce and into higher education in Europe and in Russia, so too Iran has seen a very high influx of women in these areas. Iran has a strong and vocal feminist opposition, and it has actually been in the forefront of the anti-Ahmadinejad camp's political positions. In many respects, Iranian feminist voices (some of whom call themselves 'Islamic Feminists' ) go much further in their opposition to the Khamenei-Ahmadinejad regime than the Khatami-Moussavi faction. Crucially, what needs to be borne in mind is that social inequality has actually deepened in post 'Islamic Revolution' Iran. This has something to do with the steady devaluation of the Iranian rial, which plunged from seven Rials to the US Dollar in the immediately pre-revolutionary period to something close to four hundred rials to the US Dollar now. This means that those in Iran who have access to foreign remittances have substantially higher cash reserves compared to those who dont. The Iranian regime has discreetly worked to encourage this fact, creating a class (including key figures in the leading families - the Khameneis and the Rafsanjanis) who have large assets abroad, with 'dual' lifestyles, not unlike the Saudi, Pakistani and Nigerian elites, and a large underclass of people in genteel urban immiseration and large-scale rural poverty, suffering the consequences of very high unemployment (close to 16% nationally, 26 % in some areas) and galloping inflation, especially in terms of abnormally high costs for basic necessities like food and housing. This explains the paradox of Iran having relatively high figures in GDP, GDP per Capita, GDP per Capita relative to Purchasing Power Parity, and a sudden plunge when it comes to indices of economic equality. So, while India, for instance, is low on GDP, GDP per Capita, GDP per Capita read off PPP, it performs much better than Iran on questions of economic equality (not as well as Sweden, Finland, or Israel, but much better than Iran, or, for that matter China, Venezuela, South Africa or the United States of America.) I append below a series of figures, and some rankings, taken from a series of "Lists of Countries" based on UN, World Bank and IMF data, on Wikipedia. While these may or may not be exact and accurate, i do think they give a reasonably good indication. I. GDP Per Capita (IMF, 2008) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita Venezuela 53rd Rank US $ 11, 388 Turkey 55th Rank US $ 10, 472 Mexico 56th Rank US $ 19, 235 Brazil 64th Rank US $ 8197 South Africa 76th Rank US $ 5,693 Angola 84th Rank US $ 4,961 Iran 85th Rank US $ 4732 Algeria 88th Rank US $ 4732 China 104th Rank US $ 3315 Egypt 117th Rank US $ 2161 India 142nd Rank US $ 1016 Nigeria 144th Rank US $ 1451 II. GDP Per Capita PPP (IMF, 2008) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita Mexico 54 - 14,560 Venezuela 64 - 12, 785 Turkey 62 - 13, 138 Iran 71 - 11,250 Brazil 77 - 10,326 South Africa 79 - 10,119 Algeria 96 - 6698 Angola 98 - 6331 China 100 - 5963 Egypt 101 - 5898 India 129 - 2762 Nigeria 140 - 2134 III. HDI INDEX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index Mexico 51 Venezuela 61 Brazil 70 Iran 84 China 94 Algeria 100 Egypt 116 South Africa 125 India 132 Nigeria 154 Angola 157 IV. GINI INDEX (Income Inequality) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality Algeria 35.3 India 36.8 Israel 39.6 Iran 43 United States 40.8 Turkey 43.6 Nigeria 43.7 Mexico 46.1 China 46.9 Venezuela 48.2 Brazil 57 South Africa 57.8 INCARCERATION A classic index of inequality is the rate of incarceration. Prison populations and crime rates are always higher in countries with higher inequality and repression, not necessarily in countries with larger absolute numbers of the working poor. If criminality, on a broad, generalized scale, is a reflection of the intensity of informal class conflict in any given society then, it would be easy for us to understand that societies with higher conviction rates, higher prison populations also tend to be those with greater levels of inequality and class conflict. If we compare India, say with Iran on the Incarceration Index, then in terms of numbers of prisoners per 100,000 people, Iran comes out at rank 57, with 222 prisoners per 100,000 prisoners, while India comes out at rank 201, with 33 prisoners per 100,000 prisoners. (United States and Russia have much higher rates, indicating that they are even more unequal societies). These figures are taken from the 'World Prison Brief' compiled and conducted by the International Centre for Prison Studies at the Law School of Kings College, London. see: But what this means is that Iran has roughly seven times as many people (relative to the population) in prison as compared to India. Going by all of the above factors, unemployment, income inequality, incarceration, the picture that we get of Iran, in comparison to other developing countries, including India, is not as rosy as we might expect when we look at indices like HDI and the rates of literacy, infant mortality etc. The official unemployment rate has grown from 10.5% to 17 % during Ahmadinejad's tenure. Inflation today is at a record high of 35 %. Since 1997 unemployment rates for 20 to 24 year old Iranians have increased from 15 % to 22 % for men, and from 23 % to 44 % for women. In terms of absolute poverty, figures released by the Iranian central bank indicate that poverty fell by 2 percentage points each year during the eight years of the reformist Khatami administration (1997-2005) but, significantly, during the first two years of the Ahmadinejad administration, urban poverty increased by 1.5 percentage points, or roughly 680,000 more people were added to the overall number of the urban poor (despite an overall declining population) during the first two years of Ahmadinejad rule. This is not an invisible reality. This is acknowledged even in sources that are not necessarily inimical to the current regime. Here for instance, are two articles from Press TV, the Iranian regime's current favourite 'independent news channel' . Both quote Hossein Raghfar, a professor of economics at the Al Zahra University in Tehran, who has been an advisor on welfare and economics policies to the Iranian government, including under Ahmadinejad. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Experts say Tehran's poverty line has reached USD 860 Press TV, March 12, 2009 http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=88372 The poverty line for Iran's metropolitan areas has increased by almost 10 percent reaching 8,500,000 rials (USD 860), experts say. "With a possible 35-percent inflation rate next year, a family of five would be in absolute poverty with a [monthly] income of under 8,500,000 rials," university professor and poverty mapping expert Hossein Raghfar told Farsnews on Wednesday. Raghfar made the announcement in the final days of 1387 -- the current Iranian calendar year, which will end on March 21. "This time last year, we predicted that that the poverty line for Tehran would be around 7,800,000 rials for a family of five in 1387, and we saw that the Central Bank released the same figure for the country's major cities later on in the year," he added. This is while officials at Iran's Ministry of Welfare and Social Security have not yet announced the official poverty threshold. Former Minister of Welfare Mohammad Sharif-Zadegan also said that the figure had risen. However, he added that the increase was not so high as to cause panic. "Our data shows that the poverty line has increased, but not that high to cause concern when announced. Therefore, we must not be afraid of announcing it," Sharif-Zadegan explained. "University studies show that low income groups have spent less while high income groups have spent more. These studies show that the poor have become poorer while the higher income families have spent more," he added. Another figure, also announced on Wednesday, was the minimum wage for Iranian workers, which was set at a monthly rate of 2,745,500 rials (USD 279). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. 29 and 33 percent of Iranians live under the "absolute poverty" line. Press TV, 06 June, 2009 http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=97282§ionid=351020102.) An Iranian specialist in poverty, development and economy, Dr. Hossein Raghfar says that between 29 and 33 percent of Iranians live under the "absolute poverty" line. Dr. Hossein Raghfar noted that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad "presented his own unrealistic figures on oil revenues, which pegged Iran's income as USD 211b in the year ending March 20, 2009, whereas careful analysis of the income will show a total of USD 265b," reported Iran's Labor News Agency (ILNA) on Friday. In analyzing the government calculations he said that the sales of natural gas and related material were not included in the total income figure. Coming to the question of poverty, Raghfar said, "Between 29 and 32 percent of Iranians live below the poverty line and the reason for this range are accounting factors. A small shift in the poverty line could put a large number of people below it, as there is a large concentration (of people) around this line." "According to the last published figures for the poverty line for Tehran in the year ending March 20, 2008 it was $9,612 per year as announced by the Central Bank and the national average was $4,932," said the economist. He said that the initiatives undertaken by the government show that it is impossible for the government to distribute oil revenue through its program of 'justice bonds' or even direct subsidies. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In fact, given Iran's relatively high GDP (due to petroleum and gas exports, which put it in the same relative bracket, as say, Venezuela, or for that matter, Norway, (the poorest country in Europe before Oil was struck in the late 1950s, around the same time, if not later, than in Iran) the question to ask is why are the HDI indicators not as high, but, on the contrary, as low, as they are? Why has the Iranian revolution been, on so many counts, been such a colossal failure, in so far as the harnessing of revenues from valuable resources for the alleviation of the standard of living of the majority of the population. When we realize that this occurs despite the fact that Iran has traditionally had the best educated workforce in the region, then we are forced to acknowledge that the regime that has ruled the Islamic Republic actually maintains a situation of class priviledge as endemic as obtained under the tyranny of the Shah. This brings us to the second major point. <2. Ahmadinejad's social base and the economic implications of his policies as the basis for his supposed popularity. Ahmadinejad as a channel for subaltern articulations in Iran. The question of whether or not the 'opposition' to Ahmadinejad is rooted in 'urban elitism' and a class bias.> Ahmadinejad may have come to power with the promise of addressing this situation, and there is no doubt that he was genuinely popular, and perceived as a 'maverick outsider' to the establishment, but there is every reason to believe that his colossal failure on the economic front has actually contributed to a sharp edge of bitterness about him in precisely those people who may have initially voted for him in the previous election. While thinking about these issues, it is also important to recognize that the idea of the 'rural subaltern' vote for Ahmadinejad is in fact a myth. Iran is an overwhelmingly urban country. 68 % of the Iranian population lives in cities. 20 % live in Tehran alone. Rural to Urban migration peaked in the years after the 'Islamic Revolution' because the Khomeini regime backtracked on land reforms, actually returned re-distributed land to rural landowning classes, including the clergy, leading to widespread rural immiseration and migration to cities. It is the children of these migrants, educated, unemployed, with no prospects, unable to settle down in decent housing, unable to marry, unable to better their prospects that constitute the basis of the massive popular discontent against the Islamic regime. Ahmadinejad's economic policies, which consisted of cash (and potato) handouts to the urban and rural poor, and a sqandering of the oil revenue reserves earmarked for the future, has the same shallow demagogery as Indira Gandhi's 'Garibi Hatao' programmes of the 1970s. It has not taken the highly politically aware working population of Iran long to realize that these cash handouts actually imply a devaluation of their own future even as the regime shores up the power and financial clout of the 'nomenklatura' that controls the 'bonyads' or quasi public 'foundations' that dominate large elements of the service and manufacturing sectors of the economy that tie sections of the clergy and the security establishment into the micro-control of the Iranian economy. At the very top of the pyramid are the uber-elite, who continue to siphon off large amounts of money into overseas banks, especially in Switzerland and Britain. This includes people like Mojtaba Khamenei, Ayatollah Khamenei's second son, whose recent rage at the British government's freezing Iranian held bank accounts in the UK had a great deal to do with what was happening to his own little crony-capitalist fortune. In fact, in an unprecedented move, 150 of the 290 members of the Majlis ,or Iranian parliament, censured Ahmadinejad in 2007, for his profligate economic policies, which are widely being seen as contributing to a deepening economic and social crisis in Iran. At least two governors if the Iranian cectral bank hane resigned in protest. The people backing Ahmadinejad are the desparate captains of a sinking ship, who are behaving with the characteristic brutality of those trying to defend their privileges at all costs. The scale of the disaffection against Ahmadinejad is far too wide to be interpreted as a 'middle class or elitist' reaction against a populist incumbent president. In fact, as Hamid Dabashi, an astute commentator on the Iranian scene says, there may be a 'privileged' constituency for Ahmadinejad that has so far carefully escaped analysis. His comments, published recently in his coloumn in Cairo's respected Al Ahram weekly, bear quotation at length. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking in the wrong places Hamid Dabashi Al Ahram Weekly, 2-8 July 2009 http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/954/op2.htm The assumption that supporters of Mousavi and/or Karrubi, or indeed that masses of millions of people who have poured into the streets of Tehran and other cities, come from "the middle class" is a common fallacy... The problem with the false impression about this mysterious "middle class" is not only that it distorts the reality of what we are observing in Iranian cities, but that it also inadvertently fuels the conspiratorial theories among certain segments of the North American and Western European left that take this observation one delusional step further and believe that CIA (on behalf of neoliberal economics) is behind this "velvet revolution". That particular pathology needs a separate diagnosis, but the false premise of "middle class" support for Mousavi, particularly by people I deeply admire, needs more urgent attention. Of a total Iranian population of 72 million, upward of 70 per cent are under the age of 30. While the total rate of unemployment under Ahmadinejad, predicated on correspondingly high numbers under Khatami's two-term presidency, is 30 per cent, this rate, according to Djavad Salehi-Isfahani, the most reliable Iranian economist around, for young people between the ages of 15 and 29 (some 35 per cent of the total population) is 70 per cent. So seven out of every 10 people in this age group can scarce find a job, let alone marry, let alone have children and form a family. In exactly what phantasmagoria definition of "the middle class" can they hope to be included? Let me cite other statistics. You must have noticed the overwhelming presence of women in these demonstrations. Right? Now, 63 per cent of university entrants in Iran are women, but they make up only 12.3 per cent of the workforce. In other words, one out of every two women university graduates earn their degrees and then go back to live with their parents, remain a burden on their limited budget, and can only hope to leave their parents' home if they find a husband among those three out of 10 young men who may be lucky enough to find a job that would enable them to marry. In what Marxist, Keynesian, or neoliberal definition of this blessed "middle class" would they fit? Consider another fact. If we were to believe the official tabulation of the presidential election, which I have no way of proving otherwise (though that they are rigged is now a "social fact"), twice as many of these young voters have voted for Ahmadinejad as they did for Mir- Hussein Mousavi, Mahdi Karrubi and Mohsen Rezai put together. In other words, the official results shoot the argument of a pro-Mousavi "middle class" in the foot, for we will end up either with the bizarre proposition that pro-Mousavi Iranians voted for Ahmadinejad, if the results are accurate, or else the perfectly plausible possibility that the unemployed -- and thus by definition the poor -- voted for Mousavi, if the results are rigged. Either way, the supporters of Mousavi are not the upper middle class bourgeois class that thinks its votes are worth more than others. But all these and similar statistics pale in comparison to another statistic that shows the real horror at the heart of the Islamic Republic -- for which not just Ahmadinejad but the entire militant disposition of the ruling elite is responsible. In 1997, some three million high school graduates participated in the Iranian national university entrance examination, of which only 240,000 managed to pass through the Seven Tasks of Rostam and enter a university. So the full capacity of the entire Iranian university system is less than 10 per cent of the total applicants. What happened to that more than 90 per cent? Where did they go? What job, what opportunity, and what education? The answer is frightful. A significant portion of this remaining 90 per cent is absorbed into various layers of the militarised security apparatus, including the Basij and the Pasdaran. If in fact anyone qualified for that dreaded "middle class" status it is precisely this component of the 15-29 year olds who have not made it to the university system and have joined the security apparatus of the regime, for they have a steady job, can marry, form a family, and have a solid investment in the status quo and be considered "middle class". In other words, instead of spending the national budget on expanding the university system, and then generating jobs, the custodians of the Islamic Republic, not just Ahmadinejad, insecure of their own legitimacy as they are, would rather spend it on fortifying a security apparatus that keeps their ageing banality in power. Of course Ahmadinejad is not entirely responsible for this sad state of affairs. The Iranian economy is 85 per cent oil-based and an oil-based economy is not labour intensive, while the Iranian "middle class" has always, since the 19th century, been a feeble and shaky proposition. But Bishara's assumption that "Ahmadinejad is less a representative of Iranian conservatives than a rebel against them from within their own establishment," or that "he has lashed out against them, including corrupt clergy, using the principles of the Islamic Revolution as his weapons" is deeply flawed. Of course there was corruption in the two previous administrations of both Khatami and Rafsanjani that preceded him, and that gave free reign to neoliberal privatisation and its catastrophic consequences. But in what particular way has Ahmadinejad corrected that course? The answer: in no way. The battle between Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani is not a battle between revolutionary purity and ageing corruption. It is a battle between a retiring elite and an emerging, previously lower-ranking, echelon that is coming up for grabs. It is a romanticism of the most dangerous sort to imagine Ahmadinejad as a man who "wants to restore the revolution to its youthful vigour and gleam". He is so patently transparent that all you have to do is sit through 10 minutes of his charlatanism during the televised presidential debates to see through the rampant lumpenism with which he operates. The only way that "he distributes oil revenues among the poor" is by recruiting them into the multi-layered and brutal security apparatus of the Basij and the Pasdaran. This, again, is not his invention. He simply carries on an innate insecurity of the regime by over-investing in security forces. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While news from Iran has currently died down, overtaken in part by the media hysteria around Michael Jackson's funeral. Things in Iran are as tense as they were, if not more, compared to a month ago Even sections of the Revolutionary Guards are disaffected, a major Revolutionary Guard general Ali Fazei is reported to have been imprisoned for his refusal to give orders to shoot at the population, and the Army, and police reportedly stands divided. Sections of the Pasdaran, allied to Mojtaba Khamenei and his cronies have effectively staged an internal coup, and Ahmadinejad is more their puppet than he is anything else Iran has again seen massive protests in recent days, though they are not being reported as widely, including as recently as on the 9th of July, the anniversary of the student protests of 1999 and 2003. There is is likely to be even more as the anniversaries of the massacre of July 14 (1999) and the end of a month since the stolen election itself (13-15 July) begin to unravel on the streets of Iran's cities, towns and villages. (TO BE CONTINUED) From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Jul 13 16:00:54 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:00:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] There is a Third Voice in Iran: Gita Hashemi on Rakshan Bani-Etemad's Film Message-ID: Dear All, While on the subject of Iran, here is an interesting text by Gita Hashemi, that appeared on the Nettime list today. I thought this would be of interest to people on this list. Apologies for cross posting from Nettime. best, Shuddha ----------------------------------------- There Is a Third Voice in Iran Review of "We Are Half of Iran" by Rakhshan Bani-etemad, released on YouTube, Spring 2009 By Gita Hashemi [Feel free to distribute.] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_BinbdFndI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrZ9wQrYfdo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHoqssYQNM4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvBcdtqHSNA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3NsiiUbMmI&feature=related [This documentary is in Farsi and is not subtitled yet.] In this documentary - made over the 2-3 months prior to the elections and released online just a week before the election - feminist Iranian filmmaker Rakhshan Bani-etemad (http://iranianstudies.ca/privatelives/000432.html) interviews a large number of women political personalities, researchers and women's rights activists from diverse political/ideological formations who work in a wide range of areas of research and activism using different methodologies. The film also briefly looks at the activist coalitions that were created this spring in order to take advantage of the brief opening in the public sphere during the presidential campaign for discussing women's agenda and their needs and demands. A common question she asks the activists is what demands they have of the presidential candidates and on what basis they will decide who to vote for. The footage is then played back to 3 out of 4 candidates (Ahmadinejad did not respond to Bani-etemad's invitation to participate), and the candidates respond to women's demands. Briefly, the majority of activists - from Islamic to secular nationalist and/or leftist orientations - demand fundamental changes to the discriminatory legal and political frameworks in Iran including changing the constitution. Other demands include joining the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (Islamic Republic of Iran is not a signatory yet), opening social and political opportunities for women, guaranteeing the right of women to organize politically, several social policy demands including social spending, equal righs to education for women, etc. The common denominator is EQUAL RIGHTS in all areas of social life. In their responses to these demands, the 3 candidates - Karoubi, Mousavi and Rezayi - and their advisors and/or wives, while acknowledging women's active contribution to socio-political life and paying lip service to some of the issues raised by women, stop short of formulating any concrete responses to concrete questions asked of them. Most interesting is Mousavi's response. He insists that given the "traditional" dominant culture in Iran, any solutions to women's issues have to be in adherence with traditions. His conservatism comes hard even to his wife, Zahra Rahnavard, who jumps in at one point to say that nevertheless the executive branch has both responsibilities and means of changing some of the laws and conditions. What this documentary helps to highlight is the broad-based highly organized and diverse women's rights movement in Iran - by no means a homogeneous movement - and the impact of women's activism in changing the political discourse in Iran toward broader mobilization of the people in the political process. Over the past few weeks, many Western commentators (including, to my dismay, Robert Fisk) have expressed 'surprise' at the presence of women on the streets. Such commentaries show complete lack of familiarity with and understanding of the grass roots political dynamics in the country. This documentary shows a highly dynamic home-grown women's rights movement that has, over at least a decade of overt activism and 3 decades of resistance, created the socio-cultural conditions for women to participate not just as so many bodies in street demonstrations, but as important voices in the political discourse. It is no accident that some of these activists were amongst the first to be arrested immediately as the post-election uprising started. Many of their offices have been under attack, activists and lawyers arrested, families harassed and threatened (these attacks have been ongoing for several years). Western journalists may be oblivious but the guardians of the Islamic Republic are quite clear that it is this persistent daily activism which has directly contributed to the massive shift in the country's political culture including the possibility of mass political action. In spite of their broad participation in the 1979 Revolution, women were the first group to come under attack after the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran which - within a month after the revolution - started regressive processes to limit severely women's legal rights and social opportunities. Mandatory veiling was the symbol of a very broad campaign against women in both public and private spheres. Women were also the first group to stage resistance in spring of 1979 in defense of their democratic rights through mass demonstrations against mandatory veiling and the abolition of the family protection act which guaranteed certain rights, including right to divorce and custody of children, for women. Over the past ten years, by articulating fundamental challenges to the constitution of the Islamic Republic in demanding equal rights for women, and through highly creative and diverse forms of social and political engagement/activism, the women's rights activists have mounted one of the most serious and radical campaigns for change in Iran. While the world media focuses on street demonstrations and/or behind-the-curtain negotiations between political factions and presidential candidates and their cleric supporters/foes, once again we are facing the erasure of women's voices from the political discourse in Iran and its reflection in the world. Women's movement in Iran is not a U.S. 'Feminist Majority' export, it didn't start in June 2009, and it is not a momentary engagement. It is NOT ENOUGH to rally around the face of a female accidental victim of state violence, Neda Aghasoltan. What is ESSENTIAL now is to recognize and support the organized and articulate women's voices for change. This is the "third voice" in Iran. Become familiar with it. Amplify it. Broadcast it. Start here: http://www.forequality.info/english/ From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Jul 13 16:10:31 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:10:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] There is a Third Voice in Iran: Gita Hashemi on Rakshan Bani-Etemad's Film Message-ID: <3a9ccf9176383f18451f68d7746be737@sarai.net> Dear All, While on the subject of Iran, here is an interesting text by Gita Hashemi, that appeared on the Nettime list today. I thought this would be of interest to people on this list. Apologies for cross posting from Nettime. best, Shuddha ----------------------------------------- There Is a Third Voice in Iran Review of "We Are Half of Iran" by Rakhshan Bani-etemad, released on YouTube, Spring 2009 By Gita Hashemi [Feel free to distribute.] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_BinbdFndI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrZ9wQrYfdo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHoqssYQNM4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvBcdtqHSNA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3NsiiUbMmI&feature=related [This documentary is in Farsi and is not subtitled yet.] In this documentary - made over the 2-3 months prior to the elections and released online just a week before the election - feminist Iranian filmmaker Rakhshan Bani-etemad (http://iranianstudies.ca/privatelives/000432.html) interviews a large number of women political personalities, researchers and women's rights activists from diverse political/ideological formations who work in a wide range of areas of research and activism using different methodologies. The film also briefly looks at the activist coalitions that were created this spring in order to take advantage of the brief opening in the public sphere during the presidential campaign for discussing women's agenda and their needs and demands. A common question she asks the activists is what demands they have of the presidential candidates and on what basis they will decide who to vote for. The footage is then played back to 3 out of 4 candidates (Ahmadinejad did not respond to Bani-etemad's invitation to participate), and the candidates respond to women's demands. Briefly, the majority of activists - from Islamic to secular nationalist and/or leftist orientations - demand fundamental changes to the discriminatory legal and political frameworks in Iran including changing the constitution. Other demands include joining the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (Islamic Republic of Iran is not a signatory yet), opening social and political opportunities for women, guaranteeing the right of women to organize politically, several social policy demands including social spending, equal righs to education for women, etc. The common denominator is EQUAL RIGHTS in all areas of social life. In their responses to these demands, the 3 candidates - Karoubi, Mousavi and Rezayi - and their advisors and/or wives, while acknowledging women's active contribution to socio-political life and paying lip service to some of the issues raised by women, stop short of formulating any concrete responses to concrete questions asked of them. Most interesting is Mousavi's response. He insists that given the "traditional" dominant culture in Iran, any solutions to women's issues have to be in adherence with traditions. His conservatism comes hard even to his wife, Zahra Rahnavard, who jumps in at one point to say that nevertheless the executive branch has both responsibilities and means of changing some of the laws and conditions. What this documentary helps to highlight is the broad-based highly organized and diverse women's rights movement in Iran - by no means a homogeneous movement - and the impact of women's activism in changing the political discourse in Iran toward broader mobilization of the people in the political process. Over the past few weeks, many Western commentators (including, to my dismay, Robert Fisk) have expressed 'surprise' at the presence of women on the streets. Such commentaries show complete lack of familiarity with and understanding of the grass roots political dynamics in the country. This documentary shows a highly dynamic home-grown women's rights movement that has, over at least a decade of overt activism and 3 decades of resistance, created the socio-cultural conditions for women to participate not just as so many bodies in street demonstrations, but as important voices in the political discourse. It is no accident that some of these activists were amongst the first to be arrested immediately as the post-election uprising started. Many of their offices have been under attack, activists and lawyers arrested, families harassed and threatened (these attacks have been ongoing for several years). Western journalists may be oblivious but the guardians of the Islamic Republic are quite clear that it is this persistent daily activism which has directly contributed to the massive shift in the country's political culture including the possibility of mass political action. In spite of their broad participation in the 1979 Revolution, women were the first group to come under attack after the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran which - within a month after the revolution - started regressive processes to limit severely women's legal rights and social opportunities. Mandatory veiling was the symbol of a very broad campaign against women in both public and private spheres. Women were also the first group to stage resistance in spring of 1979 in defense of their democratic rights through mass demonstrations against mandatory veiling and the abolition of the family protection act which guaranteed certain rights, including right to divorce and custody of children, for women. Over the past ten years, by articulating fundamental challenges to the constitution of the Islamic Republic in demanding equal rights for women, and through highly creative and diverse forms of social and political engagement/activism, the women's rights activists have mounted one of the most serious and radical campaigns for change in Iran. While the world media focuses on street demonstrations and/or behind-the-curtain negotiations between political factions and presidential candidates and their cleric supporters/foes, once again we are facing the erasure of women's voices from the political discourse in Iran and its reflection in the world. Women's movement in Iran is not a U.S. 'Feminist Majority' export, it didn't start in June 2009, and it is not a momentary engagement. It is NOT ENOUGH to rally around the face of a female accidental victim of state violence, Neda Aghasoltan. What is ESSENTIAL now is to recognize and support the organized and articulate women's voices for change. This is the "third voice" in Iran. Become familiar with it. Amplify it. Broadcast it. Start here: http://www.forequality.info/english/ From A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk Mon Jul 13 16:27:52 2009 From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk (A Khanna) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:57:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] on krishna's chariot stands shikhandi In-Reply-To: <341380d00907110635n3ec008f8s298c32ac460e703@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907110049t2c24d7bay8ee7d481a102a7b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110112i1c730874wd3955c83bde9fb60@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110619h338df601i9e24628604f56f8e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110635n3ec008f8s298c32ac460e703@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090713115752.l3jlhbut1cs80sw0@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> hi all, in the context of the claims of the likes of baba ramdev and bp singhal on queerphobia as a marker of 'indian culture', this interesting piece by devdutt patnaik. akshay http://devdutt.com/on-krishnas-chariot-stands-shikhandi On Krishna’s chariot stands Shikhandi Published in Sunday Midday, Mumbai, 12 July 2009 15It was the ninth night of the war at Kurukshetra. The exact midpoint of the legendary 18-day bloodbath. Not the start, not the end, but the middle. The war had been inconclusive. Sometimes the Kauravas led by the old sire Bhisma had the upper hand; sometimes the Pandavas led by the young warlord, Dhristadhyumna, Draupadi’s twin brother, had the upper hand. A see-saw that was going nowhere. “Bhisma loves us too much to defeat us,” said the Pandavas. “Yet not enough to let us win,” reminded Krishna. “He must die, if dharma has to be established.” But Bhisma had been given a boon by his father that he could choose the time of his death. No one could therefore kill him. “If we cannot kill him, we must at least immobilize him.” “But no one can defeat him,” said the Pandavas. “Even the great Parashurama could not overpower him in a duel. So long he holds a weapon in hand he is invincible.” “Then we must make him lower his bow,” said Krishna. “He will never lower his bow before any armed man.” “What about an armed woman?” “A woman? On the battlefield?” sneered the Pandavas, forgetting they themselves worshipped Durga, the goddess of war and victory. “But it is against dharma to let women hold weapons and step on the battlefield.” “Who said so?” asked Krishna. “Bhisma says so. Dharma says so.” “Dharma also says that old men should retire and make way for the next generation so that the earth’s resources are not exploited by too many generations. But Bhisma did the very opposite. He renounced his right to marry, so that his old father could resume the householder’s life,” argued Krishna. “He was being an obedient son.” “He was indulging his old father at the cost of the earth. That vow spiraled events that has led to this war. It is time to be rid of him, by force or cunning, if necessary. We must find someone before whom the old patriarch will lower his bow. If not a woman, then someone who is not quite a man.” “What about Shikhandi!” said Dhristadhyumna. “He is my elder brother. He was born a woman. But my father, Draupada, was told by the Rishis that he would one day become a man. Though born with female genital organs, Shikhandi was raised a son, taught warfare and statecraft. He was even given a wife. On his wedding night, the wife, daughter of king Hiranyavarna of Dasharna, was horrified to discover that her husband was actually a woman. My father tried to explain that actually Shikhandi was a man with a female body and that Rishis had told him he would someday acquire a male body. The woman refused to listen. She screamed and ran to her father and her father raised an army and threatened to destroy our city. A distraught Shikhandi went to the forest, holding himself responsible for the crisis, intent on killing himself. There he met a Yaksha called Sthunakarna who took pity on him and gave him his manhood for one night. With the Yaksha’s manhood, Shikhandi made love to a concubine sent by his father-in-law and proved he was no woman. The wife was therefore forced to return. Now, it so happened, that Kubera, king of the Yakshas, was furious with what Sthunakarna had done and so cursed Sthunakarna that he would not get his manhood back so long as Shikhandi was alive. As a result what was supposed to be with him for one night has remained with him till this moment. My elder brother, Shikhandi, born with a female body, has a Yaksha’s manhood right now. What is he, Krishna? Man or woman?” Krishna knew things were more complex. Shikhandi, may have been raised as a man and may have acquired a manhood later in life, but in his previous life, he was a woman called Amba, whose life Bhisma had ruined. Bhisma had abducted her along with her sisters and forced them to marry, not him, but his weakling of a brother, Vichitravirya (a name that means ‘queer masculinity’ or ‘odd manliness’). When she begged Bhisma to let her marry the man she loved, he let her go. But the lover refused to marry Amba, now soiled by contact with another man (Bhisma). Distraught she returned, only to have Vichitravirya turn her away, and Bhisma shrugging helplessly. “When you have taken the vow of never being with a woman, what gave you the right to abduct me,” she yelled. Bhisma ignored her. Amba begged Parashurama, the great warrior, to kill Bhisma but he failed. Exasperated, irritated, she prayed to Shiva. “Make me the cause of his death,” she begged. Shiva blessed her – it would be so, but only in her next life. Amba immediately leapt into a pyre eager to accelerate the process. “I think, Shikhandi should ride into the battlefield on my chariot. Let Arjuna stand behind him,” said Krishna. The tenth day dawned. The chariot rolled out. Behind Krishna stood the strange creature, neither man nor woman, or perhaps both, or neither, and behind him, Arjuna. “You bring a woman into this battlefield, before me,” roared Bhisma seeing Shikhandi. “This is adharma. I refuse to fight.” Krishna retorted in his calm melodious voice, “You see her as a woman because she was born with a female body. You see her as a woman because in her heart she is Amba. But I see her as a man because that is how her father raised her. I see her as a man because she has a Yaksha’s manhood with which he has consummated his marriage. Whose point of view is right, Bhisma?” “Mine,” said Bhisma. “You are always right, are you not, Bhisma? When you allowed your old father to remarry, when you abducted brides for your weak brother, when clung to future generation after future generations like a leech, trying to set things right. There is always a logic you find to justify your point of view. So now, Shikhandi is a woman – an unworthy opponent. That’s your view, not Shikhandi’s view. He wishes to fight you.” “I will not fight this woman,” so saying Bhisma lowered his bow without even looking towards Shikhandi. 17“Shoot him now, Shikhandi. Shoot him, now, Arjuna,” said Krishna, “Shoot hundreds of arrows so that they puncture every inch of this old man’s flesh. Pin him to ground, immobilize him so that he can no longer immobilize the war.” “But he is like a father to me,” argued Arjuna. “This war is not about fathers or sons. This is not even about men or women, Arjuna. This is about dharma. And dharma is about empathy. Empathy is about inclusion. Even now, he excludes Shikhandi’s feelings – all he cares about his version of the law. Shoot him now. Rid the world of this old school of thought so that a new world can be reconstructed.” And so Arjuna released a volley of arrows. Hundreds of arrows punctured every limb of Bhisma’s body, his hands, his legs, his trunk, his thigh, till the grandsire fell like a giant Banyan tree in the middle of a forest. It is said that the earth would not accept him for he had lived too long – over four generations instead of just two. It is said the sky would not accept him because he had not fathered children and repaid his debt to ancestors. So he remained suspended mid-air by Arjuna’s arrows. With the fall of Bhisma, the war moved in favor of the Pandavas. Nine days later, the Kauravas were defeated and dharma had been established. Without doubt, Shikhandi changed the course of the war and played a pivotal role in the establishing of dharma. He was without doubt a key tool for Krishna. A cynic would say, Shikhandi was used by Krishna. A devotee will argue, Krishna made even Shikhandi useful. But his story is almost always overlooked in retellings of the great epic Mahabharata, or retold rather hurriedly, avoid the details. Authors have gone so far as to conveniently call the Sthunakarna episode a later interpolation, hence of no consequence. Shikhandi embodies all queer people – from gays to lesbians to Hijras to transgendered people to hermaphrodites to bisexuals. Like their stories, his story remains invisible. But the great author, Vyasa, located this story between the ninth night and the tenth day, right in the middle of the war, between the start and the finish. This was surely not accidental. It was a strategic pointer to things that belong neither here nor there. This is how the ancients gave voice to the non-heterosexual discourse. Shikhandi embarrases us today. Sthunakarna who willingly gave up his manhood frightens us today. But neither Shikhandi nor Shthunkarna embarrassed or frightened Krishna or Vyas. Both included Shikhandi in the great narrative. But modern writers have chosen to exclude him. That is the story of homosexuals in human society. Homosexuals have always existed in God’s world but more often than not manmade society has chosen to ignore, suppress, ridicule, label them aberrants, diseased, to be swept under carpets and gagged by laws such as 377. They have been equated with rapists and molesters, simply because they can only love differently. Indian society, however, has been a bit different from most others. Like all cultures, Indian culture for sure paid more importance to the dominant heterosexual discourse. But unlike most cultures, Indian culture did not condemn or invalidate the minority non-heterosexual discourse altogether. Hence the tale of Shikhandi, placed so strategically. Hence the tale of Bhangashvana, retold by none other than Bhisma to the Pandavas, after the war before he chose to die. Yudhishtira asked, “Grandfather, who gets more sexual pleasure – men or women? What is sweeter to the ear – the sound of father or mother?” Bhisma replied, “No one knows really. Except perhaps Bhangashvana, the only one who was both man and woman. Bhangashvana was a great king, with many wives and many sons. Indra cursed him to be a woman. So he lived as a woman, took a husband and bore him children. He was thus a man to his wife and a woman to his husband. He thus had two sets of children, one who called him ‘father’ and another who called him ‘mother’. He alone is qualified to answer your questions.” Such ideas will never find mention in most scriptures around the world. But they are part of our cultural inheritance. Clearly many keepers of culture have not heard the stories of Shikhandi, or Bhangashvana or of Yuvanashva, the king who accidentally became pregnant and delivered the great Mandhata, or of the two queens who made love to each other to produce a child without bones (bones being the contribution of sperm, according to mythology), or of Mohini, the female form of Vishnu, who enchanted even Shiva, the great hermit. Clearly they have chosen to ignore that every year, in Brahmotsavam festival, the image of the Lord Venkateshwara Balaji, who is Vishnu on earth, is dressed in female garments reminding us all of Mohini. Clearly they are oblivious of how Shrinathji in Nathdwara is lovingly bedecked with a sari, the stri-vesha or women’s attire, in memory of the time he wore Radha’s clothes to appease her. Clearly they are not aware of Gopeshwarji of Vrindavan, Shiva who took the form of a milkmaid so that he could dance the raas-leela with Krishna. And they certainly have turned a blind eye to the rooster-riding Bahucharji, of Gujarat, patron goddess of many Hijras. Western religions have, and will, look upon Hinduism’s cross-dressing gods as vulgar and perverted. The British mocked us so much during the Raj that we went into apology and denial. Now an entire generation does not even know about these tales and these deities and these rituals. Westernization did not change bedroom habits; it has led to an embarrassed denial of our sacred scriptures. One thing we must grant the homosexual – he has united the cantankerous right wing. He has done what the constitution of India could not do – bring the radical Islamic cleric, the saffron robed yogis, the Bible-bashing clergyman to same side of the table. Together these self-proclaimed guardians of culture would like the homosexuals to be made invisible once more. Baba Ramdevji would for sure celebrate the celibacy of Bhisma. If he would have his way, he would, perhaps, drag Shikhandi to the mental asylum and teach him breathing exercises until the Yaksha’s appendage drops and he/she chokes and gasps into heterosexuality. But not Krishna. On Krishna’s chariot, Shikhandi – as he/she is – will always be welcomed. -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 17:24:59 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:54:59 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Aimee Bender on the End Of Marriage Message-ID: >From May through September Aimee Bender "Excuse me?" he said. "Kite-making," I piped in, figuring we sounded flaky. "It's actually a really good symbol for marriage -- grounded with the string, free-flying in the air -- " "Oh," he said, brow still furrowed. "Sorry. Just, where I grew up, a kite was a derogatory term for a Jewish person." I coughed. I wasn't sure I'd heard him right. "Wait," I said. "You think we're going to have a kike-making table?" I put down my fork. Tom stared at me, blankly. My fiance half-laughed. "We mean kites," I said, emphatically. "With a 'T.' Like you fly in the sky." Tom shook his head clear, his face relaxing. "Sure," he said, running a hand through his hair. "Oh, yes, my error. I'm sorry. Of course." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/02/AR2009070202178.html From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 17:45:36 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:45:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tips for Classroom Teachers With a Visually Impaired Student Message-ID: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/tips-for-classroom-teachers-with-a-visually-i Excerpts: Your visually impaired child will not see the way you see, but let me assure you that he or she will see. You will be amazed at the way this child views the world. You will learn to slip things into his hands so that he might “see” the rock or the coin or even the caterpillar with his fingers. Those will be hands you’ll never forget, hands that reach out to know life as the sighted world says it is. Hands that appreciate soft and smooth, rough and prickly as only the blind can. Hands that one day shyly sneak to touch the bracelet on your arm or the plastic clip in your hair. Hands that will produce, in time, a magical language all their own. A language of raised dots which will open doors for this child. Doors like reading and writing, and perhaps college or even graduate school one day. Braille will become a regular part of your classroom. Embrace it. All of your students will enjoy learning a little bit about it. Teach them to value learning differences rather than fear them. Treat the braille writer and the other VI equipment with no more special attention than you treat pencils or computers. They are tools. This child who will enter your room with a cane, and whose eyes may not look just like your eyes, and whose materials will have to be different, needs you. She does not need you to baby her, or to do everything for her. She especially does not need you to point out her differences to the class on a regular basis by offering her a special invitation to do things or an extra chance before you sign her behavior sheet...because she’s blind. She does need you to train your class to be helpers when she asks for help, or when help is appropriate. She needs you to model for her peers the ways in which she should be treated. She needs it to be O. K. to be blind in a classroom full of sighted students, because this child will live in a world full of sighted people for a lifetime... and that lifetime cannot wait to start until after she leaves your class. You will probably feel stressed at times. That is a great sign! That means that you are an effective teacher who cares about children, who seeks to be the best teacher you can be, and who truly desires that this special needs student be successful in your regular ed classroom. From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 17:57:54 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:57:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lonnie Thompson interview Message-ID: <564b2fca0907130527u3c3c1d4dx964d56538c4d6b57@mail.gmail.com> Lonnie Thompson is one of the foremost guys on glaciers. Interesting point he makes on glaciers thinning from the top, including in the southwest Himalayas. Naga Nature Reports Climate Change Published online: 9 July 2009 | doi:10.1038/climate.2009.66 Interview: Lonnie Thompson *Glaciologist Lonnie Thompson has spent more time above 20,000 feet than any other human being. In collecting a vast library of ice samples from mountain peaks, he has developed a unique view of past and present-day climate change. Anna Barnett caught up with him at the American Geophysical Union's Chapman Conference on Abrupt Climate Change, held 15–19 June at Thompson's own Ohio State University.* *Why hold a conference on abrupt climate change?* [image: Interview: Lonnie Thompson] Glaciologist Lonnie Thompson. © THOMAS NASH Understanding the mechanisms of abrupt changes in our climate would be important in any period of time. But in today's world, it's especially important given that we've never had 6.7 billion people before, and that the potential impacts of changes on social and economic systems could be substantial. *Why focus on the past?* To understand the mechanisms of abrupt changes in the present and future, you need to know what has occurred in the past. We're fortunate to live on a planet that has recorded very detailed histories, often annually, of how the climate system worked in the past. We can look at the various recorders we have, be they ice cores or trees, and learn from them to better understand where we are today and where we may be in the future. *What information can you garner from glaciers?* Glaciers are like sentinels, and they're telling us that the system is changing. The first thing we look for in the ice is radioactivity from thermonuclear bomb tests in 1962–1963 and 1951–1952. Back in 2006, we drilled three cores in the southwestern Himalayas. At 6,050 metres, where those glaciers reach their highest elevation, we found that neither of these radioactive layers was preserved. The glaciers are being decapitated. Not only are they retreating up the mountain slopes, but they are thinning from the top down. This same scenario is playing out on Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. When we drilled there in 2000 we found the 1951 test preserved, but not the 1962 test. We've since continued to monitor those glaciers and we know that we've lost three metres of ice since 2000. If we had waited until this year to drill, we would not have found the 1951 bomb horizon, because that has now been lost. *What does that mean for climate science?* Once a glacier melts, the history it contained is gone forever, so there's an urgency in trying to collect the records before they are lost. Glaciers are like sentinels, and they're telling us that the system is changing. The loss of tropical glaciers is very telling because they're in such sensitive places. Half of the surface of the planet lies between 30° N and 30° S. That's where the heat that drives the climate system is received. It's also where 70 per cent of the 6.7 billion people on the planet live. *What's the effect on people as these glaciers disappear?* After this meeting, we're headed to Peru to drill new ice cores at two sites. That country contains 75 per cent of the world's glaciers. Eighty per cent of its population is in the desert on the west coast, and 76 per cent of the electricity comes from hydropower, from streams that are fed by glaciers in the Andes, all of which are retreating. Those changes are impacting the ability to produce hydropower, to irrigate crops in the desert and to provide municipal water supplies. *How can we deal with such changes?* One possibility is to build dams to capture the water and do what the glacier does for free. You can think of a glacier as a water tower. It accumulates water in the wet season, when 70–80 per cent of precipitation falls, and in the dry season it melts back and keeps water flowing in the streams. Unfortunately, people live in these river valleys — usually Quechua Indians — as have their ancestors, and there's no way that they will want the valleys to be flooded to construct these dams. There have been riots already, just this past year. So even if you can come up with a solution from afar, there can be problems when you go to implement it on a local level. In the twenty-first century we human beings face two major problems: how do we get along with each other, and how do we get along with our planet? Of course, our ability to get along with each other is probably going to be tested as we have water shortages and other climate-related impacts on cultures and economies around the planet. So the challenge will be how we can change the way we go about our daily activities to make our future sustainable. From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 18:56:35 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:56:35 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Fwd: Fundraising appeal for Voices Against 377's Supreme Court case work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <343060.88121.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/meterdown ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: kabi cubby To: cubby sherman singh Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 6:54:21 PM Subject: Fwd: Fundraising appeal for Voices Against 377's Supreme Court case work ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lesley E Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 6:41 PM Subject: Fundraising appeal for Voices Against 377's Supreme Court case work To: voices , lgbtdiscuss at googlegroups.com, delhi-queer-pride at googlegroups.com *Please forward to all community e-groups and list-serves* Dear all, With the Supreme Court admitting the SLP of Suresh Kumar Koushal asking for stay pending review of the Delhi High Court judgment, the case brought against Section 377 by Naz Foundation India Trust vs Union of India is once again sub judice. Voices Against 377, impleaded in this matter in the High Court, is a coalition of women's rights, child rights, sexuality rights, legal rights groups, and individuals. Being a space of activism, it is a non-funded coalition. Hence Voices relied entirely on community contributions to cover the costs of litigation in the Delhi High Court. We appeal once again to the queer community and queer supportive friends to support our costs in the Supreme Court, with personal donations. We are already incurring costs related to case work, including fees to lawyer who filed our caveat in the Supreme Court, legal research work, photo copying, etc. Towards these we have raised Rs 10,000. We immediately need to raise another 40,000. Thanks and solidarity, -Lesley Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 13 19:23:23 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:53:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Netas and babus can outsmart smart cards Message-ID: <65be9bf40907130653j5c6c6d1exde321d915ef7931e@mail.gmail.com> More cautious voices emerging it seems.... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Columnists/S-A-Aiyar-Netas-babus-can-outsmart-smart-cards/articleshow/4739109.cms Netas and babus can outsmart smart cards Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar5 July 2009, Dear Nandan Nilekani, Nobody is better qualified than you to head the government's project to create an identification number for every citizen, buttressed with a smart card that allows governments, banks and other institutions to interact with every citizen. In theory this could transform the quality of governance, weed out corruption and waste, and end poverty by helping target the poor. I wish you luck. Smart ministers (like you) are better than dumb ministers. Yet low-level netas and babus have long outwitted smart ministers. Your book Imagining India cites Rajiv and Rahul Gandhi as saying that only 5-15% of programme funds reach beneficiaries. Sadly, implementing officials are unaccountable and unsackable. So, your challenge is not to create smart cards so much as to outsmart the saboteurs along the line. The government already issues ration cards, PAN cards, voter cards, and job cards. All are riddled with leakages and gaps. All suffer from ghosting (cards issued to non-eligible or non-existent persons) and missing out (deserving people do not get cards, especially the poor and illiterate). The government has issued 223 million ration cards, but India has only 200 million households. It has issued 80 million BPL (below poverty line) ration cards although the number of poor households is under 65 million. PAN cards for income tax payers, issued by renowned IT companies, are a fiasco. Several people have multiple PAN cards, while others have none. Voter ID cards have been issued for a decade. Yet, millions of voters find their names missing from the rolls, many have not got cards, and many dead voters remain on the rolls. Job cards are being issued for employment schemes. Yet, we have reports of substantial ghost cards and missing beneficiaries. Your book says that the government has data on people in various silos, but these are not interconnected. A national ID card with electronic capability can connect the silos, improve government-citizen interaction, and so transform governance. And yet, as your book itself says, e-governance will remain a showcase unless governments are serious. Alas, many are not. Gyandoot in Madhya Pradesh, India's first e-governance scheme, won an international prize. Today, it is dysfunctional because data are not constantly updated and made accessible to citizens. Gyandoot started off smart but ended up dumb. Economist Lant Prtichett says India is not a failed state, but is a flailing state. "Its very capable head is not reliably connected to the arms and legs of implementation... the agents of the state routinely do not implement the tasks they are assigned." Driving licences are imposed to improve driving standards. But the licensing process is so painful that most applicants simply pay a tout to get a licence, without undergoing a real driving test. Attempts to reduce absenteeism of nurses in Rajasthan failed because staff ensured that devices to monitor attendance did not work. Pritchett gives many examples of non-implementation. Government servants are responding to perverse incentives. They don't get rewarded for satisfying citizens. But officials who extort suffer no penalty, and get promoted in cahoots with corrupt netas. Such a system is quite smart, but has no interest in service delivery. If the implementers have no interest in service delivery, can a smart card outsmart them? ID cards can check illegal immigration. But if the ruling parties of West Bengal and Assam view illegal immigrants as vote banks, will they really use smart cards to crack down? When chief ministers demand huge sums to post officials to "lucrative" posts, will they use smart cards to undercut this patronage network? Contractors in every state are party cadres. Will chief ministers bankrupt their own cadres by using smart cards to check waste and corruption? Such examples can be multiplied a hundredfold. Smart cards can transfer funds directly to the needy. In theory, governments can replace a hundred anti-poverty schemes and subsidies with cash transfers, eliminating leakages. But this won't happen because politicians view the poor as too small a votebank, and prefer distributing largesse to others - they don't see this as leakage. Hence, they favour free water and power for all farmers, not just poor ones. I fear that that even if you create a smart card to deliver cash to the poor, politicians will not wind up a single subsidy or anti-poverty scheme. Smart cards may become just one more scheme, with its own leakages and omissions. My aim is not to deride your task, but to highlight its problems. I have great respect for your acumen. I hope you will outsmart all the saboteurs on India's electronic path. But i wouldn't bet on it. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 13 19:25:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:55:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Israeli_cos_eye_slice_of_India=92s?= =?windows-1252?q?_e-gov_pie?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40907130655h24aade97j7fe7e3c1a1846025@mail.gmail.com> ...while the euphoria continues in some sectors...enjoy the drama!!! http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/Israeli-cos-eye-slice-of-Indias-e-gov-pie/articleshow/4742222.cms Israeli cos eye slice of India’s e-gov pie 6 Jul 2009, 0252 hrs IST, ET Bureau BANGALORE: Israeli technology firms are joining the race for India’s e-governance projects, seeking to offer solutions for the unique identification card programme. “Israeli companies may bid along with Indian ones as we always need local partners for e-governance projects”, Consul General of Israel Orna Sagiv said . Sagiv was heading a delegation of 14 Israeli software companies to Bangalore to explore the opportunities in the Indian market and find local partners. Trade between the two countries is at $4 billion in 2008, up from $3.3 billion in 2007. Israel will be looking to partner the Indian technology giants especially because the country has e-governance solutions like e-payment, e-documentation, registration of population and citizen smart cards already running. “Many governments around the world came to Israel to see how we did it,” said Katrin Melamed, business development manager at the Israel Export and International Co operation Institute (IEICI). India is among top three trade partner for Israel in Asia and one of the top 10 trade partners globally. “This year our government decided to put special effort and give incentives to Israeli businessman who want to explore the Indian market,” said Ms Sagiv. Ms Sagiv said that the global crisis just showed Israel that the future is not only in the US and Europe, which are its traditional market. “ India and China are our markets now which are growing”, she said. With about 3,000 indigenous IT firms, spanning hardware and software, the Israeli hitech industry has grown exponentially as the export of software from Israel has reached to $5.8 billion against $90 million in 1990. Some 40% of the revenue comes from the US, 20% from Europe and rest from other nations.” I am expecting Asia will account for more than 30% this year and India will play a significant role,” said Ms Melamed of IEICI. From yasir.media at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 23:51:03 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:21:03 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Mauj and Ars Electronica In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0907131120v22fdfbd9m309b651a51db36e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b2a8be50907131056v62e5a166vce2901749e43f0fc@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0907131119n47c45cbbk7e6ded6393b4d2a5@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0907131120v22fdfbd9m309b651a51db36e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0907131121j60921272ke8111c782ca09235@mail.gmail.com> From: Atteqa Malik For those of you in the Linz area pls. check out live broadcasts from Mauj in Karachi to the pinhole in the box project at Ars Electronica http://www.80plus1.org/blog/801-%E2%80%9Cbasecamp%E2%80%9D-plans-announced-for-building-on-the-linz-main-square we will be starting probably by next weekend,  every Friday Saturday Sunday, uptil mid August 14.00 Austria time for 2 hrs and we will hook up our camera to public places in Karachi given that Karachi is a VERY unpredictable megacity, we are prepared for surprises and a few rude shocks!!!! but not too many I hope Atteqa --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~    \\   Mauj _ Collective for Open Technology, Art & Culture From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 08:29:58 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:59:58 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BEN on Tipaimukh Message-ID: 12 July 2009 Bangladesh Environment Network BEN RESOLUTION ON TIPAIMUKH DAM (draft) Observations and Analysis In view of the fact that 1. Tipaimukh Dam is not an isolated project; it is part of a comprehensive Indian plan of using rivers that flow from India into Bangladesh, and hence needs to be viewed in the broader context of sharing of international rivers by these two countries; 2. In general India has been using its upper riparian position and its economic and financial strength to take unilateral steps with regard to the flow of these international rivers; 3. Most of these unilateral steps have been of diversionary character, diverting the water flow to destinations inside India and thus reducing the flow of water into the rivers of Bangladesh. Glaring example of such diversionary interventions are the Farakka Barrage on the Ganges and the Gozaldoba Barrage on the Teesta. The Farakka diversion has drastically reduced the flow of Padma, drying up south-western Bangladesh. The Gozaldoba barrage on the other hand has drastically reduced the flow of Teesta in Bangladesh; India has undertaken numerous other diversionary and flow-controlling structures on most of the 54 common rivers flowing from India into Bangladesh. 4. These diversionary projects of India go against the international norms regarding sharing of international rivers. In particular, they violate Bangladesh’s right to prior and customary use of river water. The entire economy and life in Bangladesh have evolved on the basis of rivers. Any major change in the volume and direction of flow of these rivers seriously disrupt the economy and livelihood in Bangladesh; Furthermore, river intervention structures affect the flow of not only water but also of sediment, which are vital for the long-run sustainability of the deltaic Bangladesh, in particular in face of the threat of submergence by rising sea level caused by global warming; 5. There is a pent up emotion among Bangladesh people against India’s unilateral river intervention projects. They perceive Farakka as unjust. Similarly, they perceive Gozaldoba and other barrages as unfair toBangladesh and as proof of India’s hubris. These unilateral river intervention projects are a thorn in Bangladesh-India bilateral relationship, which should be not only good neighborly and mutually beneficial, but also warm and friendly given India’s crucial help in Bangladesh’s Liberation War; 6. After many years of hiatus, Bangladesh and India signed the Ganges Water Treaty in 1996 specifying the sharing of the Ganges water at Farakka. Though Article IX of this Treaty enjoins India not to undertake unilateral projects intervening rivers shared with Bangladesh, in practice India has not shown much respect to this provision of the Treaty. Instead, it has proceeded with many intervention projects, on a more or less unilateral basis. 7. The Tipaimukh project is one such example of unilateral intervention aimed at construction of a dam on the Barak river that flows into Bangladesh from India. India went all the way to floating international tender inviting bids for construction of the project without even sharing the DPR (Detailed Project Report) with Bangladesh. Only in May 2009, when the news of construction of Tipaimukh dam has generated considerable civic protest in Bangladesh, the Government of India (GoI) has apparently sent to the Bangladesh foreign ministry some information about the Tipaimukh project; 8. The Government of Bangladesh (GoB) is yet to make public the information on Tipai that it has received from India; 9. The GoB has proved to be ineffective in dealing with India with regard to the Tipaimukh project, as is the case with sharing of rivers in general. The GoB did not take up the Tipaimukh issue with India in a serious and timely manner. In particular, the political parties who are in opposition now did not play their expected role when they were in power during 2001-2006, when India moved Tipaimukh project from conception to implementation stage; 10. The current GoB has decided to send a delegation of Bangladesh Parliament on a fact-finding mission to Tipaimukh project site, and the Prime Minister has stated that GoB would express its opinion on the Tipaimukh project after studying the report of that delegation. 11. Unfortunately various Bangladesh ministers are expressing opinions that contradict Bangladesh’s official position as expressed by the Prime Minister, and are thus creating confusion; 12. There is the possibility that the Tipaimukh dam with its reservoir can be helpful in stabilizing the Barak flow across seasons, as has been pointed out by some water experts and reflected in some of the ministers’ statements. However there are many reasons why the suggested across-season flow-stabilization many not hold true and may not be beneficial for Bangladesh. First, Bangladesh does not yet have the necessary facts to assess the changes in Barak flow that the Tipaimukh dam will bring about; Second, dams can also be a source of destabilization of river flow, not only in the extreme situation of dam break, but in the often recurring situation when the excess water needs to be released in order to protect the dam from overflow. Such unplanned releases lead to unseasonal floods or floods of unusual depth and extent. For example, the unusual 2008 floods in Bihar were caused by unexpected release of water by the dams that India has constructed on the Ganges tributaries near the border with Nepal; Third, for Bangladesh to benefit from stabilization of the Barak flow, it has to have a say or some control over the release of water at the Tipaimukh dam. This would suggest that Tipaimukh dam should be put under joint control of India and Bangladesh. As of now, Tipaimukh dam will be entirely under the Indian control, and the water release decisions will be made by India alone, putting Bangladesh at the mercy of the Indians operating the Tipaimukh dam. Such a helpless situation is not in Bangladesh’s interests; Fourth, river flow contains not only water, but also sediments, which are very important for the deltaic Bangladesh. One important impact of the Tipaimukh dam will be reduced sediment volume of the Barak flow reaching Bangladesh, with detrimental effects on Bangladesh; Fifth, Bangladesh has to assess the costs and benefits for her economy of the seasonal changes in the Barak flow that the Tipaimukh dam will bring about. For example, current Boro is the main crop for many in the Surma-Kushiara basin, cultivated in the haors andother low lying areas that become dry due to low winter flows of the rivers. If now the winter flows increase due to the Tipaimukh dam, cultivation of Boro may become impossible in many areas, disrupting the economy and livelihood. Without detailed studies to determine whether these losses will be offset by gains in other respects, it is difficult to say whether the net benefit of the across-season stabilization of the Barak flow will be positive for Bangladesh; Sixth, apart from economy there is the issue of ecology to consider. The flora and fauna of the Surma-Kushiara-Meghna basin have developed on the basis of a certain river flow seasonal pattern, which is going to be affected markedly by the Tipaimukh dam. Detailed studies are necessary to gauge the environmental and ecological impact of the Tipaimukh dam; 13. The Tipaimukh dam project cannot be separated from the other project in the offing, in particular the Fulertal barrage project, meant to divert Barak water for irrigation to the Kachar district of Assam. As of now, with a price tag of $1.8 billion, the Tipaimukh project uneconomical, because per unit cost of electricity, even assuming the advertised production of 1500 MW, will be too high. The cost irrationality of the Tipaimukh dam can be justified only if it is viewed jointly with water diversionary projects at Fulertal or some other point on Barak allowing benefits from irrigation to be counted against the Tipaimukh costs. However, combined with such diversionary projects, the Tipaimukh dam is completely unacceptable to Bangladesh. In such combination, the Tipaimukh-Fulertal duo will be a repetition of Farakka for Bangladesh, now only on the eastern side her. 14. The worldwide experience shows that large scale interventions in the volume and direction of river flows do not prove to be that beneficial in the long run. The hydro power generated often proves to be meager and costly. The irrigation carried out on the basis of diverted water often proves wasteful and leads to salinity and deterioration of the soil quality. Meanwhile, the reservoir submerges huge amount of land, destroying the ecology and displacing thousands of (often most vulnerable, indigenous) people, destroying their culture, causing permanent problems of alienation and insurgency. The reservoir also becomes a source of methane, undercutting the emission reducing potentiality of hydro-power generated. The reservoir and the upstream flow often becomes a cesspool of pollution. The diversionary projects end up harming not only the basin from which water is withdrawn but also the basin or area to which water is directed and transported (at a great cost). The experiences of the Amu Darya and Syr Darya rivers are prominent examples of such negative consequences. Dams also destroy the natural rhythm of the river flow, obstruct the free movement fish stock, and obstruct the sediment flow. Finally while many of the damages prove to the permanent, the dams themselves expire their lifetime, becoming obsolete due to sedimentation and filling up of the reservoir, etc. In view of the negative consequences BEN is generally skeptical about dams, barrages and other large-scale river intervention projects. BEN is therefore skeptical that the Tipaimukh dam will be beneficial in the long run in net terms even for India. 15. It is therefore not surprising that many in India are opposed to the Tipaimukh dam. Protests from local, indigenous people and the state governments of Manipur and Mizoram did hold up the project for a long time. It is true that by providing various monetary benefits and by offering free electricity, etc., the North East Electricity Production Company (NEEPCO), the current Tipaimukh implementing agency, has been able to pacify the state governments. However, many in India, particularly the indigenous people of the area, continue to oppose Tipaimukh dam project precisely because of the many reasons cited above; 16. Worldwide there is now disenchantment with the Commercial Approach to river that suggested that any flow of river water to the sea is a waste, so that all of it should be used up. The approach led to degradation of rivers and increased conflict and animosity among countries of the river basin. In view of the experience there is now a move towards the Ecological Approach that recommends preservation of the natural volume and direction of river flow and helps to foster friendly neighborly relationship among the countries of the river basin. Instead of being a source of discord, as is the case under the Commercial Approach, rivers under the Ecological Apporach become a bond of friendship and good neighborliness. 17. World wide there is also move away from the unilateral approach toward multilateral, basin wide approach that includes all countries of a river basin in decision making regarding the use of the river. Recommendations and Demands In view of the above, BEN 1. Demands that India halts proceeding with the Tipaimukh project any further and engages in serious, sincere discussion with Bangladesh about the fate of this and all other projects of intervention in the shared international rivers; 2. Demands that India agrees to abandon its current unilateral approach and adopts a multilateral, basin-wide integrated water resources management approach to rivers of the region; 3. Demands that India agrees to adopt the multilateral approach with regard to the Tipaimukh dam project; 4. Demands that India should under no circumstances undertake water diversionary project (such as at Fulertal or at other points) on the Barak river; 5. Demands that India should under no circumstance undertake water diversionary projects on rivers shared by Bangladesh either directly or through tributaries and distributaries; 6. Urges Bangladesh, India, and all countries of the sub-continent to abandon the current Commercial Approach to rivers and to adopt the Ecological Approach; 7. Demands that GoB immediately makes public the information that it has received on the Tipaimukh dam project from India so all interested parties and scholars can conduct necessary analysis on the basis of the information; 8. Urges that GoB sponsors independent research by Bangladeshi experts on the possible impact of the Tipaimukh dam on Bangladesh economy and ecology; 9. Urges all political parties of Bangladesh to adopt a non-partisan approach to the Tipaimukh issue (and issues of water sharing with India in general) and cooperate to develop a united national position with regard to Tipaimukh and to dealing with India on this issue; 10. Urges all parties to lend cooperation to the government, to the extent that it sincerely tries to find a solution with India regarding Tipaimukh, defending Bangladesh’s national interests and legitimate rights; 11. Urges all political parties represented in the Parliament to join the proposed all-party delegation of Bangladesh Parliament to visit Tipaimukh dam site to find out the facts and prepare a report on the basis of the findings; 12. Urges all citizens of Bangladesh to build a strong civic movement to save the rivers of the country; 13. Urges formation of a region-wide (including India, Bangladesh, Nepal, China, and Bhutan) civic movement for protection of rivers and for promotion of the Ecological Approach to rivers in place of the Commercial Approach to rivers. 14. Urges all concerned in Bangladesh, including political parties, civil society organizations, NGOs, think tanks, media, mass organizations, local peoples’ organizations, non-resident Bangladeshis, etc. to come together, leaving aside narrow partisan and sectarian interests, and develop and rally behind a united national position regarding Tipaimukh dam and other river sharing issues. Bangladesh needs national unity in order to defend its rivers. From iram at sarai.net Tue Jul 14 11:47:51 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:47:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Summer Course: Film and Historical Imagination @ JB media Resource Centre, Jamia Message-ID: <4A5C230F.1000903@sarai.net> JAMES BEVERIDGE MEDIA RESOURCE CENTRE AJK Mass Communication Research Centre Jamia Millia Islamia New Delhi 110025 SUMMER COURSE: FILM AND THE HISTORICAL IMAGINATION Course instructor: Ranjani Mazumdar, Associate Professor, Cinema Studies, School of Arts & Aesthetics, JNU July 27 – August 7, 2009 CALL FOR APPLICATIONS The JB MRC invites applications from graduate students, teachers, media researchers and practitioners for a two-week long theory course titled “Film and the Historical Imagination” Course Description: Film is an archive of sensations, of emotions, of images and of sounds. As a powerful recorder of life and its events, Film lends itself to organizing not just historical knowledge but also commenting on the nature of historical narration. This two week introductory course on Film and the Historical Imagination will map the specific ways in which history and ideas about the past get constructed through the medium of cinema. Issues related to questions of evidence, memory, historical catastrophe, nostalgia, myth and heritage will be discussed and analyzed in relation to world cinema. The course is structured in the form of five illustrated lectures, followed by five full length screenings. The course will conclude with a round table discussion with all participants. A set of key essays will be provided in the form of a reader. The sessions will be 11 am to 5 pm every alternate day of the week, excluding weekends. Ranjani Mazumdar is Associate Professor of Cinema Studies at the School of Arts and Aesthetics at Jawaharlal Nehru University. Her publications and films focus on urban cultures, popular cinema, gender and the cinematic city. She is the author of Bombay Cinema: Archive of the City which was co published by the University of Minnesota Press and Permanent Black, 2007. She is currently co-authoring a book on the Contemporary Film Industry. Her current research interests include the cinema of the 1960s, Globalization and Film Culture, and Film and History. To apply: Send your CV and a brief statement (500 words max) outlining your interest in attending the course to HYPERLINK "mailto:courses.jbmrc at gmail.com" courses.jbmrc at gmail.com or to the Course Coordinator, JB MRC, AJK MCRC, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi 110025. Last date for applications: July 23, 2009 Course commencement date: July 27, 2009 Selected applicants will be charged Rs. 650/- as the course fee (The JB MRC is supported by a grant from Sir Ratan Tata Trust) From shuddha at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 16:07:53 2009 From: shuddha at gmail.com (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:07:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Who Profits from the Occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and Golan Heights? Message-ID: <32A38939-C74B-4D4B-A1DF-EC0E3C267ACD@sarai.net> Dear All, A friend in Israel sent this link to a website called 'Who Profits' - which meticulously documents and analyzes who profits, in very concrete and specific ways from the brutal Israeli presence and continued illegal settlement activity in occupied Palestinian territories. http://www.whoprofits.org/index.php The site and the database is constructed and maintained by by activists in The Coalition of Women for Peace, a leading Israeli feminist peace organization, dedicated to ending the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights and reaching a just peace in Israel/ Palestine. In exposing companies and corporations involved in the occupation. They say, that through this activity they "hope to promote a change in public opinion and corporate policies, leading to an end to the occupation." Do take a look, regards, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From stevedietz at northern.lights.mn Wed Jul 8 22:24:08 2009 From: stevedietz at northern.lights.mn (Northern Lights) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Weisman exhibition + Cinema commission Message-ID: <20090708165424.5368.2022428417.swift@northern.lights.mn> Northern Lights Experimenting with art in public places NORTHERN LIGHTS.MN NEWS 1. ART(ISTS) ON THE VERGE OPENING RECEPTION AND PERFORMANCES, WEISMAN ART MUSEUM 2. THE BANFF NEW MEDIA INSTITUTE, ZER01, AND SUNDANCE INSTITUTE ANNOUNCE THE LOCATIVE CINEMA COMMISSION 1. ART(ISTS) ON THE VERGE OPENING RECEPTION AND PERFORMANCES, WEISMAN ART MUSEUM Tomorrow night, Thursday, July 9, from 8-10 pm, there will be an opening reception for Art(ists) On the Verge at the Weisman Art Museum http://northern.lights.mn/programs/aov/ http://weisman.umn.edu/exhibits/AOV/home.html http://www.new.facebook.com/pages/Northern-Lights/41442276136#/ event.php?eid=203135440643&ref=mf 8:30 pm Krista Kelley Walsh, Public Eye Action, Northrop Mall and Weisman Art Museum 9:00 pm Aniccha Arts will perform an excerpt of Cloud Turn, Weisman Art Museum 9:30 triquetera, an allegorical exercise. Andrea Steudel and David Steinman with sounds by John Keston present an original outdoor video performance on the facade of the Weisman Art Museum Artists on the Verge 2008-2009 at the Weisman Art Museum features works or documentation of works made by the inaugural group of Art(ists) on the Verge fellows. Installations of all six commissions are included. Artists are Aniccha Arts (Pramila Vasudevan, Director), Avye Alexandres, Christopher Baker, Kevin Obstatz, Andrea Steudel, and Krista Kelley Walsh. Art(ists) on the Verge (AOV) is a new Northern Lights fellowship program that supports Minnesota-based, emerging artists working experimentally at the intersection of art and technology, with a focus on practices that are social, virtual and/or participatory. The program is sponsored by the Jerome Foundation. In September 2008 a jury consisting of Liz Armstrong (The Minneapolis Institute of Art), Steve Dietz (Northern Lights), Ben Heywood (Soap Factory), Ana Serrano (Canadian Film Center Media Lab), and Anu Vikram (Headlands Residency Program) selected 6 artists for AOV fellowships. This exhibition represents the culmination of the fellowship year. 2. THE BANFF NEW MEDIA INSTITUTE, ZER01, AND SUNDANCE INSTITUTE ANNOUNCE THE LOCATIVE CINEMA COMMISSION Northern Lights executive director Steve Dietz is the artistic director for the 3rd 01SJ Biennial, produced by ZER01 September 16-19, 2010, in San Jose, CA. Today, The Banff New Media Institute, ZER01, and Sundance Institute announced a joint venture to stimulate and showcase new media technologies. http://zero1.org/press/releases/banff-zero1-sundance The timeframe for applications is short - due August 3 - but the opportunity for a residency and technical support to produce a new work to be shown at the 2010 01SJ Biennial, the 2011 Sundance Festival, and the 2011 Banff Summer Arts Festvial is enormous. Please distribute widely. For more information on the Locative Cinema Commission: http://zero1.org/01sj/lccall San Jose, Calif. – July 8, 2009 ―The Banff New Media Institute at The Banff Centre, ZER01: The Art and Technology Network, and Sundance Institute’s New Frontier initiative today announced the formation of The Locative Cinema Commission, a joint venture to stimulate and showcase the creation of a locative cinema project. The Commission is presently soliciting proposals. The chosen artist or artists will realize their proposed project during a residency at The Banff Centre, to be completed by July 2010. They will also receive a $4,500 (four- thousand five hundred dollar) commissioning fee, related production funds, and will present their work at the 2010 01SJ Biennial from September 15 - 19, the 2011 edition of New Frontier at the Sundance Film Festival from January 20-30, and the 2011 Banff Summer Arts Festival. "ZER01, Sundance Institute and the Banff New Media Institute all have proven commitment to supporting emerging forms of creative practice," said Susan Kennard, Director and Executive Producer at The Banff New Media Institute. "It is our hope that this collaboration will inspire the creation of a dynamic new work that can be exhibited to wide and diverse audiences in San Jose, Park City, and Banff and excite the public about changing ways to experience art ." The purpose of this commission is to use ‘locative cinema’ as an apparatus through which artists can share their vision using place in ways that are both specific and generic, or at least transferable. The Commission understands the notion of ‘locative cinema’ as a platform-agnostic apparatus through which artists share their vision of place. Any variation on how to present an artist's work will be considered, from cell phones to the black box of the cinema, from mixed reality to street theatre, from GPS to handhelds, from distributed to ambient. Proposals will be evaluated on their ability to engage people using place as a key element of the experience. The chosen project will receive a $4,500 commissioning fee a residency in Banff with up to $5,000 in related costs, and technical support from the Banff New Media Institute. Reasonable presentation costs, including necessary travel, will also be covered. The final project will be presented in San Jose, California, Ban ff, Canada, and Park City, Utah, and therefore must be realizable in those locations. Proposals will be accepted until August 3, 2009, and must include a conceptual proposal describing the relationship of the project to the place, a technical proposal outlining the basic parameters of the project, and strategies for problem solving during the residency. Other requirements include a budget, list of collaborators, links to examples of related past work, and resumes of key personnel. More information and specific application details are available at http://zero1.org/01sj/LCcall . Html version of this mail -> http://northern.lights.mn/wp-content/plugins/mailpress/mp-includes/action.php?action=mail_link&view=dd289662eb7711e032cd498d151935d6&id=363 this mail is brought to you by MailPress Unsubscribe ? -> http://northern.lights.mn/wp-content/plugins/mailpress/mp-includes/action.php?action=mail_link&del=dd289662eb7711e032cd498d151935d6 _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From vizylac at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 12:38:49 2009 From: vizylac at yahoo.com (Khan Akif) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:38:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] For Delhi based people - small survey on Auto Rickshaw In-Reply-To: <4A5C230F.1000903@sarai.net> Message-ID: <344373.50013.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear friends, We are doing a small survey on the status of Auto Rickshaw and the behaviour pattern of consumers. Below is the link for a small survey (14 objective question). Please do spare a few minutes http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=IBEMG_79e2f7c3 Warm regards Akif See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 13:54:45 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:54:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] KSMTF plans stir against sea reclamation Message-ID: <3457ce860907140124g7312842cv379df45ab91182d8@mail.gmail.com> *By Express News Service 14 Jul 2009 01:24:00 AM IST* KSMTF plans stir against sea reclamation THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Kerala Swatantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has decided to launch an agitation against the Kinfra project to reclaim 5,000 hectares of sea at Veli and develop it for commercial purposes and for the development of the Airport. Addressing a press conference here on Monday State president of the Federation T.Peter said that reclamation of the sea would be detrimental to the interests of thousands of fishermen who eke out a living from the sea. He urged the Government not to give sanction for the project. If sea is reclaimed at one area it will cause sea erosion in the nearby areas ultimately resulting in the destruction of the houses of the fishermen, Peter said. He said that as the coastal sea in Thiruvananthapuram was very deep, the sea waves also would be of destructive strength. No environmental impact study has been held in this regard, he said. The change in the sea current would be disastrous for the fishing activity as it would even lead to the depletion of the marine wealth. As part of the first phase of the agitation, fishermen will stage a dharna in front of the Secretariat at 11 a.m. on Friday. The agitation based along the sea cost would be strengthened. Even the survey on the coastal belt will not be allowed, he said. Peter demanded the State and Central Governments to write off the debts of the fishermen. Anto Elias, secretary of the Federation, also attended the news conference. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 14 14:04:02 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:34:02 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nervous China may attack India by 2012: Expert Message-ID: <65be9bf40907140134g68911270k4c6bc291cfeccad@mail.gmail.com> Dear All A very important news item this-. I wonder, is this pronouncement an exercise in creating a sense of fake 'panic' or is it a 'genuine' assessment of the situation? Regards Taha http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Nervous-China-may-attack-India-by-2012-Expert/articleshow/4771069.cms Nervous China may attack India by 2012: Expert 13 Jul 2009, 1501 hrs IST, PTI A leading defence expert has projected that China will attack India by 2012 to divert the attention of its own people from "unprecedented" internal dissent, growing unemployment and financial problems that are threatening the hold of Communists in that country. "China will launch an attack on India before 2012. There are multiple reasons for a desperate Beijing to teach India the final lesson, thereby ensuring Chinese supremacy in Asia in this century," Bharat Verma, Editor of the Indian Defence Review, has said. Verma said the recession has "shut the Chinese exports shop", creating an "unprecedented internal social unrest" which in turn, was severely threatening the grip of the Communists over the society. Among other reasons for this assessment were rising unemployment, flight of capital worth billions of dollars, depletion of its foreign exchange reserves and growing internal dissent, Verma said in an editorial in the forthcoming issue of the premier defence journal. In addition to this, "The growing irrelevance of Pakistan, their right hand that operates against India on their behest, is increasing the Chinese nervousness," he said, adding that US President Barak Obama's Af-Pak policy was primarily Pak-Af policy that has "intelligently set the thief to catch the thief". Verma said Beijing was "already rattled, with its proxy Pakistan now literally embroiled in a civil war, losing its sheen against India." "Above all, it is worried over the growing alliance of India with the US and the West, because the alliance has the potential to create a technologically superior counterpoise. "All these three concerns of Chinese Communists are best addressed by waging a war against pacifist India to achieve multiple strategic objectives," he said. While China "covertly allowed" North Korea to test underground nuclear explosion and carry out missile trials, it was also "increasing its naval presence in South China Sea to coerce into submission those opposing its claim on the Sprately Islands," the defence expert said. He said it would be "unwise" at this point of time for a recession-hit China to move against the Western interests, including Japan. "Therefore, the most attractive option is to attack a soft target like India and forcibly occupy its territory in the Northeast," Verma said. But India is "least prepared" on ground to face the Chinese threat, he says and asks a series of questions on how will India respond to repulse the Chinese game plan or whether Indian leadership would be able to "take the heat of war". "Is Indian military equipped to face the two-front wars by Beijing and Islamabad? Is the Indian civil administration geared to meet the internal security challenges that the external actors will sponsor simultaneously through their doctrine of unrestricted warfare? "The answers are an unequivocal 'no'. Pacifist India is not ready by a long shot either on the internal or the external front," the defence journal editor says. In view of the "imminent threat" posed by China, "the quickest way to swing out of pacifism to a state of assertion is by injecting military thinking in the civil administration to build the sinews. That will enormously increase the deliverables on ground – from Lalgarh to Tawang," he says. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 14 14:11:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:41:24 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt will take steps to end ID card duplication: Nilekani- 144 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907140141l3d0858a1x5a7036fd2286d046@mail.gmail.com> Govt will take steps to end ID card duplication: Nilekani Press Trust of India / Bangalore July 13, 2009, 12:58 IST http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/govt-will-take-steps-to-end-id-card-duplication-nilekani/67494/on Nandan M Nilekani, who was appointed as head of Unique Identification Authority of India(UIAI), today said the government would take steps to end ID card duplication leading to fraud and create a network of verification and authentication. "The UIAI would create a centralised, national database of Indian residents," the former Infosys co-chairman told reporters here after meeting Karnataka Chief Minister B S Yeddyurappa, who felicitated him on his new assignment. The key issue was to ensure that there were no duplicates, he underlined. "The big problem today with identity is that many systems have lot of duplicates which lead to fraud." The idea is to use bio-metric, fingerprints or whatever to make sure that people have a unique number, Nilekani shared. The UIAI would then create a national network of verification so that "people can verify that somebody is who he claims he is," he said. Nilekani parried questions on immediate key challenges for UIAI, saying, "First I have to go and find an office." On the timeline to complete the project, he added, "Let me go and take stock of the situation." The UIAI would create a national authentication and enrollment capability and an identity system, an "infrastructure" on which Centre, state governments and private sector can have "value added applications", he said. Giving an example, he explained, a state seeking to implement a scheme can use this database to identify beneficiaries. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 14:38:06 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:38:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Save the Children's' Awareness Campaign on Human Trafficking Message-ID: Details here: http://FundACause.posterous.com/sponsor-prizes-for-ngo-save-the-childrens-awa --- Excerpts from Archana Rao's mail: One of our challenging projects is the Prevention of Human Trafficking in the source areas and Rehabilitation of the Rescued Victims of Trafficking. We are currently having a media campaign to spread the awareness on the issue. Along with the local BEST buses (local transport system), we are sharing it on the LCD screens for the people to see. The media students from colleges are doing the films and the best 10 movies are going to go on air. For the same, we are intending to give away prizes to motivate them. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 15:04:06 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:04:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? Message-ID: Savita Bhabhi cartoon porn website blocked by Indian security law Rhys Blakely in Mumbai With her ample bosom, skimpy sari and mischievous grin, Savita Bhabhi, India’s first and only online cartoon porn star, might not look like a threat to national security. But the country’s Government has made the fictional housewife seductress the first target of new laws, passed after last year’s terror attacks on Mumbai, that allow the authorities to block dangerous websites. The Savita Bhabhi site, which features a series of daily cartoon strips based on the “sexual adventures of a hot Indian bhabhi” (sister-in-law), was created by Puneet Agarwal, 38, a British entrepreneur of Indian descent. Before being blocked in India it was attracting 60 million visitors a month, about 70 per cent of them from India. The decision to block the site has bemused many onlookers. Despite featuring the adventures of a “regular Indian woman who just can’t get enough sex” and being managed by an outfit that calls itself the Indian Porn Empire, the venture appeared to owe as much to Benny Hill as to Hustler. One typically titillating storyline involved a travelling lingerie salesman ringing Savita’s doorbell and the escapades that followed. (“Can you help me please . . . The hook is stuck.”) Some pundits argued that Savita’s adventures drew on a rich tradition of Indian erotica, from the Kama Sutra, which dates back perhaps two millennia, to a long-established tradition in Indian popular culture of flirtation between a man and his elder brother’s wife. But above all, as Tehelka, a news weekly, observed, the strip appeared to “poke fun at the coy Indian attitude towards sexuality”. For those in the corridors of power, however, Savita’s promiscuity was no laughing matter. Last month the Government ordered internet service providers to block the site. To do so it evoked section 67 of the Information Technology Act. The law allows the Government to ban websites that threaten “the sovereignty or integrity of India, defence and security of the state” or that endanger “friendly relations with foreign states”. India’s decision to blacklist Savita while continuing to allow unfettered access to traditional hardcore pornography sites has drawn ridicule from experts in cyberspace law. Sevanti Ninan, a journalist who runs thehoot.org, a media commentary site, said: “Our relationships with foreign states couldn’t be friendlier since she went online.” Campaigners for Savita’s reinstatement hope to use India’s freedomof-information laws to uncover who demanded that the site be blacklisted. Others have sought solace in the failure of other countries to police the web. The columnist Venkatesan Vembu said: “The government ban is about as impotent as Savita Bhabhi’s workaholic, sexually clueless husband, and as her growing legion of fans has discovered, there are ways of getting around the ban by using proxy, anonymiser websites that cover your tracks.” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6683611.ece From gora at sarai.net Tue Jul 14 16:57:29 2009 From: gora at sarai.net (Gora Mohanty) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:57:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For Delhi based people - small survey on Auto Rickshaw In-Reply-To: <344373.50013.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <4A5C230F.1000903@sarai.net> <344373.50013.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090714165729.09084ad1@mail.sarai.net> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:38:49 +0530 (IST) Khan Akif wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > We are doing a small survey on the status of Auto Rickshaw and > the behaviour pattern of consumers. Below is the link for a small > survey (14 objective question). Please do spare a few minutes > > http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=IBEMG_79e2f7c3 [...] Your survey should not be asking for email addresses as a required field. People are doing you a favour by taking the survey, and I am certainly not going to share an email with an untrusted site, no matter what they say about not misusing email addresses. For anyone interested in taking the survey without divulging their email address, you can use a fake one, such as nobody at example.com Regards, Gora From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 16:59:21 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:59:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <341380d00907140429q72a5bf6esa73919423e8d4f7f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, I dont understand the fuss about this website created by Puneet Agarwal. The damn site is still working. Why is he making these claims? some form of publicity for this site. It is unfortunate that Agarwal decided to take up the cause of the quintessential sexually emaciated Bhabhi who actually beaten up every night by her husband. If Mr Agarwal aspires to become Donald Trump for India, then we have done it long time back with Vatsayan very objectively and succintly explaining the sex in indian context. However, the government ban is superficial, that site is still functional and Agarwal is minting a lot of money by crying out publicly about this ban. -anupam On 7/14/09, Javed wrote: > > Savita Bhabhi cartoon porn website blocked by Indian security law > > Rhys Blakely in Mumbai > > With her ample bosom, skimpy sari and mischievous grin, Savita Bhabhi, > India’s first and only online cartoon porn star, might not look like a > threat to national security. But the country’s Government has made the > fictional housewife seductress the first target of new laws, passed > after last year’s terror attacks on Mumbai, that allow the authorities > to block dangerous websites. > > The Savita Bhabhi site, which features a series of daily cartoon > strips based on the “sexual adventures of a hot Indian bhabhi” > (sister-in-law), was created by Puneet Agarwal, 38, a British > entrepreneur of Indian descent. Before being blocked in India it was > attracting 60 million visitors a month, about 70 per cent of them from > India. > > The decision to block the site has bemused many onlookers. Despite > featuring the adventures of a “regular Indian woman who just can’t get > enough sex” and being managed by an outfit that calls itself the > Indian Porn Empire, the venture appeared to owe as much to Benny Hill > as to Hustler. One typically titillating storyline involved a > travelling lingerie salesman ringing Savita’s doorbell and the > escapades that followed. (“Can you help me please . . . The hook is > stuck.”) Some pundits argued that Savita’s adventures drew on a rich > tradition of Indian erotica, from the Kama Sutra, which dates back > perhaps two millennia, to a long-established tradition in Indian > popular culture of flirtation between a man and his elder brother’s > wife. But above all, as Tehelka, a news weekly, observed, the strip > appeared to “poke fun at the coy Indian attitude towards sexuality”. > > For those in the corridors of power, however, Savita’s promiscuity was > no laughing matter. Last month the Government ordered internet service > providers to block the site. To do so it evoked section 67 of the > Information Technology Act. The law allows the Government to ban > websites that threaten “the sovereignty or integrity of India, defence > and security of the state” or that endanger “friendly relations with > foreign states”. > > India’s decision to blacklist Savita while continuing to allow > unfettered access to traditional hardcore pornography sites has drawn > ridicule from experts in cyberspace law. > > Sevanti Ninan, a journalist who runs thehoot.org, a media commentary > site, said: “Our relationships with foreign states couldn’t be > friendlier since she went online.” > > Campaigners for Savita’s reinstatement hope to use India’s > freedomof-information laws to uncover who demanded that the site be > blacklisted. > > Others have sought solace in the failure of other countries to police > the web. The columnist Venkatesan Vembu said: “The government ban is > about as impotent as Savita Bhabhi’s workaholic, sexually clueless > husband, and as her growing legion of fans has discovered, there are > ways of getting around the ban by using proxy, anonymiser websites > that cover your tracks.” > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6683611.ece > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 14 17:07:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:37:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Smart Card Industry: Major Players in India (Eight years ago) Message-ID: <65be9bf40907140437q458084abgb0a1780e81a406f0@mail.gmail.com> Dear All I want to share a list of business concerns which I found in my archive. This is just a preliminary list of business houses which were considered as 'Major Players' in the smart cards sector. This list was complied almost at the beginning of the decade. I would be updating this list as and when I come across any bit of information. One has to bear in mind that this list does not contain the name of companies like Infineon Technologies http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/index.html or Philips NxP http://www.nxp.com/ Quite surprisingly though just months before the announcement of UIDIA, NxP de-listed all its shares from Bombay Stock Exchange, so it would be not as easy for us now, to view and analyze the impact of UIDAI or MNIC on Philips. Regards Taha http://dqindia.ciol.com/content/archive/100211207.asp Smart Card Industry: Major Players in India Sunday, December 09, 2001 Aplab Aplab House A-5, Wagle Industrial Estate, Thane 400604 Tel: 5821861–3 Fax: 5823137, 5824456, 5831128 Web site: www.aplab.com Ascom India 34, Udyog Vihar, Phase IV, Gurgaon, Haryana 122016 Tel: 6342083 Fax: 6349114 Web site: www.ascom.com Baehal Software Airport Lane, HAL Estate Bangalore 560017 Web site: www.baehal.com CMS Computers 201, Arcadia Nariman Point, Mumbai 400021 Tel: 2851580, 2042734 Web site: www.cms.co.in Compaq India 92, Industrial Suburb, IInd Stage, Yashwanthpur, Bangalore 560022 Tel: 3374785 Fax: 3374601 Web site: www.compaq.co.in Datanet Corp No.4, Morzaria Industrial Estate, Bannerghatta Road, Bangalore 560029 Tel: 5538011, 5521837, 5521839 Fax: 5538010 Web site: www.datanetcorp.com e-SmartNET Zicom House, 45 Chimbai Road Behind St.Andrews Church, Off Hill Road, Bandra (W), Mumbai 400050 Tel: 6452784–85, 6454841, 6155571–72 Fax: 6454842 Web site: www.zicomsecure.com Equifax Venture Infotek EVI Technology Park B-52, Veera Industrial Estate, New Link Road, Andheri (W), Mumbai 400053 Tel: 6324837, 6365795 Fax: 6301483, 6391483 Exim Soft 63-B, 13th Cross, JP Nagar Phase III, Bangalore 560078 Tel: 6580466, 6583522 Fax: 6580973 Web site: www.eximsoft.com Gemplus India 27, 80 Feet Road, HAL III, State, Indira Nagar, Bangalore 560075 Tel: 5288247, 5288257 Fax: 5288259 Web site: www.gemplus.com Schlumberger Measurement & Systems 4th Floor, Mohan Dev Building, 13 Tolstoy Marg, New Delhi 110001 Tel: 3355382, 3350213 Fax: 3712773 Web site: www.slb.com Shonkh Technologies 178/5, 8 "F" Main Road, 3rd Block, Jayanagar, Bangalore 560011 Tel: 6541471–3 Fax: 6541466 Web site: www.shonkh.com Smart Chip A-298, New Friends Colony, New Delhi 110065 Tel: 6925812–15 Fax: 6925402 Web site: www.smartchipltd.com TVS Cherry 205, Madhava Building, Bandra-Kurla Complex Bandra (E) Mumbai 400051 Tel: 6542732, 6542771 Fax: 6542424 Web site: www.cherrycorp.com VeriFone India VeriFone Technology Park, Wind Tunnel Road Murugeshalya, Bangalore 560017 Tel: 5298151–4 Fax: 5299876 Web site: www.verifone.com From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 18:20:37 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:20:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: <4A5C792B.2080501@gmail.com> References: <341380d00907140429q72a5bf6esa73919423e8d4f7f@mail.gmail.com> <4A5C792B.2080501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907140550w2567cfcbndd78b7ede957b388@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sukanya, I understand it is unfortunate that the website has been blocked for threatening the sovereignity or integrity of the nation which is why i have said that the ban is superficial. the website is fucntioning even now. i could see the contents However, you have understand that cyber laws in India is still at the nascent stage. There were several other pornographic sites launched from India in the past. My issue is that when erotic writing has been a part of Indian literature for a long time where do we fit in the contents of this website that clearly celebrates the fantasies of the indian voyeur? And moreover, is it inspired from the stories of these voyeurs who get bobbitised in reality for attempting rape their aunts or their sisters reeling under the influence of their day dreams? what is it that this site is trying to portray ? perhaps government should reconsider the ban but there has to be a debate on what is the implication of having a site that celebrates a bhabhi (literally a sister-in-law) and her sexual desires, that too from the perspective which is not feminine by any means, but mostly reflects the unabashed voyeurism. reagrds anupam On 7/14/09, sukanya ghosh wrote: > > dear anupam, > > 1. The site has been blocked so I don't know what you're looking at. > 2. This is not about how good or bad the quality of porn is or indeed about > the indianness of sex explained. It is about the Indian Government having > invoked the section 67 of the Information Technology Act and the dangers > therein. > 3. Do take a moment and ponder on "websites that threaten 'the sovereignty > or integrity of India, defence and security of the state' or that endanger > 'friendly relations with foreign states.'" By that logic, this very list > that we feel free to launch our tirades on can come under fire . . . > > cheers > sukanya > > > > anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Javed, >> >> I dont understand the fuss about this website created by Puneet Agarwal. >> The >> damn site is still working. Why is he making these claims? some form of >> publicity for this site. It is unfortunate that Agarwal decided to take up >> the cause of the quintessential sexually emaciated Bhabhi who actually >> beaten up every night by her husband. If Mr Agarwal aspires to become >> Donald >> Trump for India, then we have done it long time back with Vatsayan very >> objectively and succintly explaining the sex in indian context. However, >> the >> government ban is superficial, that site is still functional and Agarwal >> is >> minting a lot of money by crying out publicly about this ban. >> >> -anupam >> >> >> On 7/14/09, Javed wrote: >> >> >>> Savita Bhabhi cartoon porn website blocked by Indian security law >>> >>> Rhys Blakely in Mumbai >>> >>> With her ample bosom, skimpy sari and mischievous grin, Savita Bhabhi, >>> India’s first and only online cartoon porn star, might not look like a >>> threat to national security. But the country’s Government has made the >>> fictional housewife seductress the first target of new laws, passed >>> after last year’s terror attacks on Mumbai, that allow the authorities >>> to block dangerous websites. >>> >>> The Savita Bhabhi site, which features a series of daily cartoon >>> strips based on the “sexual adventures of a hot Indian bhabhi” >>> (sister-in-law), was created by Puneet Agarwal, 38, a British >>> entrepreneur of Indian descent. Before being blocked in India it was >>> attracting 60 million visitors a month, about 70 per cent of them from >>> India. >>> >>> The decision to block the site has bemused many onlookers. Despite >>> featuring the adventures of a “regular Indian woman who just can’t get >>> enough sex” and being managed by an outfit that calls itself the >>> Indian Porn Empire, the venture appeared to owe as much to Benny Hill >>> as to Hustler. One typically titillating storyline involved a >>> travelling lingerie salesman ringing Savita’s doorbell and the >>> escapades that followed. (“Can you help me please . . . The hook is >>> stuck.”) Some pundits argued that Savita’s adventures drew on a rich >>> tradition of Indian erotica, from the Kama Sutra, which dates back >>> perhaps two millennia, to a long-established tradition in Indian >>> popular culture of flirtation between a man and his elder brother’s >>> wife. But above all, as Tehelka, a news weekly, observed, the strip >>> appeared to “poke fun at the coy Indian attitude towards sexuality”. >>> >>> For those in the corridors of power, however, Savita’s promiscuity was >>> no laughing matter. Last month the Government ordered internet service >>> providers to block the site. To do so it evoked section 67 of the >>> Information Technology Act. The law allows the Government to ban >>> websites that threaten “the sovereignty or integrity of India, defence >>> and security of the state” or that endanger “friendly relations with >>> foreign states”. >>> >>> India’s decision to blacklist Savita while continuing to allow >>> unfettered access to traditional hardcore pornography sites has drawn >>> ridicule from experts in cyberspace law. >>> >>> Sevanti Ninan, a journalist who runs thehoot.org, a media commentary >>> site, said: “Our relationships with foreign states couldn’t be >>> friendlier since she went online.” >>> >>> Campaigners for Savita’s reinstatement hope to use India’s >>> freedomof-information laws to uncover who demanded that the site be >>> blacklisted. >>> >>> Others have sought solace in the failure of other countries to police >>> the web. The columnist Venkatesan Vembu said: “The government ban is >>> about as impotent as Savita Bhabhi’s workaholic, sexually clueless >>> husband, and as her growing legion of fans has discovered, there are >>> ways of getting around the ban by using proxy, anonymiser websites >>> that cover your tracks.” >>> >>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6683611.ece >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > -- > sukanya ghosh / +91 9831306925 > > From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Jul 14 21:47:42 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:47:42 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: <341380d00907140429q72a5bf6esa73919423e8d4f7f@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907140429q72a5bf6esa73919423e8d4f7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <677436.2210.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Just as a matter of Net-Voyeurism, not quite literally, I am in the habit of viewing off-beat and evil sites and studying the hints displayed in there.. Ok, Savita seemingly is about the voice of the mordern city woman whose body is no more a property of her husband, quite literally the reverse, wherein every bystander from her boss to the auto wallah to the milk man to the Undergarments seller are licensed to have a good glimplse of her assets and apprecite them quite openly, thus opening the gateway to their pleasure. IN one of the issues, teenage boys were encouraged to force them upon their local sensous aunts in lieu of having sex. Honestly this sites contains recipies either are rewarding and bear the risk of devastating ones life from being branded a THARKI, to landing up behind the bars or even Getting beaten in public. Making every sensous thing translate into the act of intercourse is vulgar and worse, affects the intellect, anyone who regularly subscribes to the magazine and it's views is bound to be ill. Puneet has wonderful artistic skills and portrays the body of an Indian married woman, I'll later elaborate on this 'married stuff' beautifully, and sensously draped, the depictions are also good. But come on we Indians should learn to live by the fact that secure packed Cadburies contain metallic pieces to lizard's tail. What the erroticas aim at and what repurcations they leave is question.  Javed and all, one needs to recon we do not live in a utopian world with mental energies broad enough to find their own course, and if we talk about good of society, one must be careful about making expirements 'take off'. We live in a sad world where we are surrounded by boot laden Semi-automatic rifle laden Commandoes, the stench of Gunpowder has alas wiped off the memories of the fresh pages of book or the bleach on them, we live in a world where a man and a woman are mere objetcs of sex,  somebodies pain is pleasure of many others, how many times we see voyeur DUMP CD's leaked. The truth is many of these CD's are forged, the people are professional, some are however true, alas. These brand and celebrate rape, Leaking of lewd MMS by others affecting individual dignity, and somehow a stolen thing has some extra charm and false sense of fullfillment. I can not take any point beyond this justifying the so called emotions before break up, for rarely do these guys seem to have any sign of mental break down nor can human beings or sex be exchanged for money.  We know NRIs marrying of Indian girls and selling them to brothels, Indian flesh being valued highly abroad, and prostitutes who run this are 'married' to avoid the 'lash' of law, in places it is illegal. Kama Sutra is not a Bramhinical text, but rather a collection or a survey of the practice of Sex among various places and varnas and tribes. Different kinds of marriages are described for instance, and also nis the swinger life style endorsed.  To be regarded as a defender of a religion one needs to read some text be assosciated to a temple and wear an attire. Not quite different fro the requirements to be guardian of constitution or of public peace............................................ Savita has some characteristics, she shaves her skin is of a specific type and she uses cosmetics, not the traditional mom or sister, but still a rare phenomenon. I do not think selling sex is bad, but definitely we do not need this to attract people to India just to enjoy our women,  a little more clear at the expense of those who need not sell it. If such a psychologic social force, as is growing trend is imposed on all growing girls using western cosmetic they may possibly turn whores as the society wants to see them as. Thus training men to see women as objects of pleasure is indeed self inforcing. But pains woman and others and is socially undesirable. In our christian school HOLY BE THY NAME WAS SAID IN THE PRAYER. I appreciate Satanism, but never would say in front of a follower 'Cursed be thy name'. Savita, in short is not a errotica, it is a porn site, a site where women and relations are dehumanised, where people are lured day in and out to avoid the dignity of women, where rape and social ostracism thereon are celebrated in name of the freedom to have multiple partners. It is dangerous to Human society if not to national barriers, it advocates the use of cosmetics which could be carcinogens, it snatches the veru beauty man attached to his actions, it rots minds. Such sites should never be encouraged. Off course one might use proxy still one retains a bit of sanity of weighing a 30000 laptop to a Kama SUtra minus savita bhabi! ________________________________ From: anupam chakravartty To: sarai list Sent: Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 4:59:21 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? Dear Javed, I dont understand the fuss about this website created by Puneet Agarwal. The damn site is still working. Why is he making these claims? some form of publicity for this site. It is unfortunate that Agarwal decided to take up the cause of the quintessential sexually emaciated Bhabhi who actually beaten up every night by her husband. If Mr Agarwal aspires to become Donald Trump for India, then we have done it long time back with Vatsayan very objectively and succintly explaining the sex in indian context. However, the government ban is superficial, that site is still functional and Agarwal is minting a lot of money by crying out publicly about this ban. -anupam On 7/14/09, Javed wrote: > > Savita Bhabhi cartoon porn website blocked by Indian security law > > Rhys Blakely in Mumbai > > With her ample bosom, skimpy sari and mischievous grin, Savita Bhabhi, > India’s first and only online cartoon porn star, might not look like a > threat to national security. But the country’s Government has made the > fictional housewife seductress the first target of new laws, passed > after last year’s terror attacks on Mumbai, that allow the authorities > to block dangerous websites. > > The Savita Bhabhi site, which features a series of daily cartoon > strips based on the “sexual adventures of a hot Indian bhabhi” > (sister-in-law), was created by Puneet Agarwal, 38, a British > entrepreneur of Indian descent. Before being blocked in India it was > attracting 60 million visitors a month, about 70 per cent of them from > India. > > The decision to block the site has bemused many onlookers. Despite > featuring the adventures of a “regular Indian woman who just can’t get > enough sex” and being managed by an outfit that calls itself the > Indian Porn Empire, the venture appeared to owe as much to Benny Hill > as to Hustler. One typically titillating storyline involved a > travelling lingerie salesman ringing Savita’s doorbell and the > escapades that followed. (“Can you help me please . . . The hook is > stuck.”) Some pundits argued that Savita’s adventures drew on a rich > tradition of Indian erotica, from the Kama Sutra, which dates back > perhaps two millennia, to a long-established tradition in Indian > popular culture of flirtation between a man and his elder brother’s > wife. But above all, as Tehelka, a news weekly, observed, the strip > appeared to “poke fun at the coy Indian attitude towards sexuality”. > > For those in the corridors of power, however, Savita’s promiscuity was > no laughing matter. Last month the Government ordered internet service > providers to block the site. To do so it evoked section 67 of the > Information Technology Act. The law allows the Government to ban > websites that threaten “the sovereignty or integrity of India, defence > and security of the state” or that endanger “friendly relations with > foreign states”. > > India’s decision to blacklist Savita while continuing to allow > unfettered access to traditional hardcore pornography sites has drawn > ridicule from experts in cyberspace law. > > Sevanti Ninan, a journalist who runs thehoot.org, a media commentary > site, said: “Our relationships with foreign states couldn’t be > friendlier since she went online.” > > Campaigners for Savita’s reinstatement hope to use India’s > freedomof-information laws to uncover who demanded that the site be > blacklisted. > > Others have sought solace in the failure of other countries to police > the web. The columnist Venkatesan Vembu said: “The government ban is > about as impotent as Savita Bhabhi’s workaholic, sexually clueless > husband, and as her growing legion of fans has discovered, there are > ways of getting around the ban by using proxy, anonymiser websites > that cover your tracks.” > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6683611.ece > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Jul 14 21:58:06 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:58:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? Message-ID: <262137.10028.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Why I find it more objectionable is not a foriegner talking anout indian women being desirable, but questioning the dignity and piety of Indian women and portaaying them as sex objects, wherein I find a degree of Racism, cashing in on which makes me less proud on PUNEET.  If someone at least defends us this time in name of government, which has been too loose on pornography and too lax in tracing it, for the first time on whatsoever imagined chauvinist ideals, it is a good job, as a protector. Bewaring Ma BEhan Sags, We should support it............................................... Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From nicheant at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 14 22:30:31 2009 From: nicheant at yahoo.co.uk (Nishant) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:00:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] 'The illusion of images' Message-ID: <547873.67148.qm@web27907.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/07/05/stories/2009070550120400.htm The illusion of images S Anand The statues Mayawati erects and the massive birthday cakes she cuts do not usually bother me. The same media that heaps scorn on Mayawati habitually and predictably, enthusiastically celebrates and participates in Rahul Gandhi’s paternalistic a nd offensive gesture of getting the Congress cadre to feed Dalits on his birthday, and gleefully reports the gestural politics of his occasionally spending a night in Dalit homes. I am, in many ways, unrepentantly proud of Mayawati. Here’s a Dalit woman who bears no patriarchal initial or surname; a woman who perhaps shall leave no progeny behind. A self-made icon who is not Maa in a mother-goddess fixated nation, but Behen (sister). A voice of the disinherited who has turned the legacy of inherited brutalities into an instrument of political power. Mayawati is not adequately appreciated for scrapping an order by Uttar Pradesh’s university and college principals to ban young women on campuses from sporting jeans—smacking of gender bias and moral policing. But in the news, again, is her obsession with statues of Ambedkar, Kanshi Ram, and now, of herself. Mayawati’s statues may cost the exchequer a lot, but unlike the secret installation of Ram Lalla in Ayodhya, her idolatry does not threaten the social fabric. The erection of statues is not, anyway, Mayawati’s unique idea. Statues,and the symbolism inherent in them, have for long been a way of claiming and reclaiming public space. The spread of Buddhism ensured that life-size and giant images of the Buddha sprouted across South Asia and the Far East. The first temples (stupas) in the subcontinents were for the Buddha, Tara and other Buddhist deities. Emperor Asoka’s edicts and pillars of the third century BCE, at a time when there was little Brahmi literacy in India, have survived to tell us the tale of the spread of dhamma. After Buddhism was brutally stamped out of the country of its origin, what we recognize today as ‘Hindu temples’ began to spring from the eighth century onwards, their spread spurred by the bhakti movement and the worship of beloved deities. In modern times, the British erected statues of civil servants and soldiers and named roads and buildings after them;post-independence the Congress pantheon’s imprimatur was stamped on roads, buildings, housing colonies and parks. Government schemes have been launched in the name of Nehru, Indira and Rajiv Gandhi. Once regional parties became powerful, local icons came to be celebrated. These were hardly ever subjected to the kind of scrutiny and criticism reserved for Mayawati.Reclaiming space Symbols and memorials play a crucial role in deepening and broadening the scope of democracy. Despite his admonition, Ambedkar’s birthday was celebrated and his statues were erected in his own lifetime. The Ambedkar birth centenary in 1990 saw his statues crop up in almost every Dalit inhabitation in India. Poor Dalits pooling hard-earned money erected these; in rural and urban ghettoes the statue became a site of Dalits claiming hitherto-denied civic space, resulting sometimes in social strife. But an inflated and overused symbol ceases to have meaning. Symbolism can only take the Bahujan Samaj Party and Mayawati thus far; she will have to deliver on material questions. As Nicolas Jaoul, a French scholar who has done a micro-history of Ambedkar statues in Uttar Pradesh says, “Ambedkarite symbolic politics have reached a saturation point… While symbolic politics have played a significant part in democratisation, today this seems a convenient motive for the Dalit middle class leadership to sweep issues of class under the carpet and to talk exclusively of issues of dignity.”Recording dismay Mayawati could turn to Ambedkar and introspect. Ambedkar’s 1916 letter On 28 March 1916, Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar, then a M.A. student at Columbia University, published his first public letter in the Bombay Chronicle. Following the death, in 1915, of Pherozeshah Merwanjee Mehta, one of the founders of the Indian National Congress, and of Gopal Krishna Gokhale, another Congress leader and founder of Servants of India Society,Ambedkarnotes: “The memorial for Mr Gokhale is to take the form of establishing branches of Servants of India Society at various places, while that of Sir P.M. Mehta is to stand in the form of a statue before the Bombay Municipal Office.” While appreciating the memorial for Gokhale, Ambedkar records his dismay over a statue for Mehta being “very trivial and unbecoming.” He is “at pains to understand why this memorial cannot be in a form” that will be “of permanent use to posterity”. He suggests that the memorial should be a public library named after Mehta. Drawing from his experience at “one the biggest universities in the U.S.,”Ambedkar laments how we have not yet “realized the value of the library as an institution in the growth and advancement of society.” Later, Ambedkar acted on these principles when he had the opportunities. Driven by the belief that education was the greatest weapon Dalits could have, he founded People’s Education Society in 1944;three branches of Siddharth College beginning 1946; and Milind Mahavidyalayain 1950. Ambedkar’s choice of Buddhist names for the educational institutes he founded came from his understanding that universities in ancient India — Takkasila, Nalanda, Vikramasila, Somapura, Odantapuri, Jagaddala, Vallabi — were all Buddhist.Hinduism never set up universities, only ashramsand gurukuls where only a few Brahmin and Kshatriya men were imparted training.No excuses But Mayawati should not offer excuses today for the literacy rate among Dalit women in UP being 30.5 per cent. The total number of Dalit graduates in UP is a pathetic 3 per cent. Ambedkar would shudder at this. The UGC says India needs 1,500 more universities. Mayawati could focus on the education of Dalits, create universities of excellence and name them after Ambedkar, Phule and other forgotten subaltern icons. Statues for herself — “very trivial and unbecoming” — only feed her obscene delusions of grandeur and betray a fear of mortality. In his concluding speech to the Constituent Assembly on November 25 1949, Ambedkar noted: “In India, ‘Bhakti’ or what may be called the path of devotion or hero-worship, plays a part in its politics unequalled in magnitude by the part it plays in the politics of any other part of the world. Bhakti in religion may be a road to the salvation of the soul. But in politics, Bhakti or hero-worship is a sure road to degradation and to eventual dictatorship.” Mayawati could yet heed Ambedkar. Anand is the publisher of Navayana. He recently completed a documentary film, “Bhagwan Das: In Pursuit of Ambedkar”. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 22:43:44 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:43:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Please endorse letter urging govt to support High Court order on S.377 Message-ID: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/please-endorse-letter-urging-govt-to-support Excerpts from Pramada Menon's mail: Dear friend, colleague and comrade, We write to you as a *coalition* of groups and activists working on women's rights, child rights, right to health, human rights, sexual rights and rights of LGBT persons. This rights-affirming Delhi High Court judgement has been *challenged in the Supreme Court* by an astrologer, Mr. Kaushal. We are writing to ask you to endorse the attached letter that we will be submitting to the government when we meet with them. We are currently setting up appointments with Union Ministers for this week (15 to 17th) so request you to *send in your endorsements as soon as you read this*. *T*his signature campaign is currently limited to organisations and individuals working and living in India. From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Jul 14 22:56:10 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:56:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] truth abou her. Message-ID: <846520.23044.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Savita is not a freedom to sex it is the mockery of subtle values and feelings of life and a restriction to subtle intellectual force that could induce values. No society can tolerate such trends by exploiting or resting arms on for loot on minds lost behind curtain frustrated emotions. The question is why only s v? A very personal question to i i t ans you get an extremely high bandwidth at government cost state aided. In some i i t s lan 5 g b is dedicated to . . . . I leave it open. Surely 4 or 6 year is not enough. A service life is. . . . . Ha ha ha ha . . . Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From skinnyghosh at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 00:27:54 2009 From: skinnyghosh at gmail.com (sukanya ghosh) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:27:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: <341380d00907140550w2567cfcbndd78b7ede957b388@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907140429q72a5bf6esa73919423e8d4f7f@mail.gmail.com> <4A5C792B.2080501@gmail.com> <341380d00907140550w2567cfcbndd78b7ede957b388@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A5CD532.4010200@gmail.com> anupam, What you are raising, are moral objections and there is a simple solution to it - if it offends you don't look/read it. Are you suggesting that people (Indians) should restrict their fantasies to the stipulated traditions of indian erotica from the past? And would you rather that we gave in to policing the internet and made way for some more repression and passive aggression? Porn exists. It would take a really long time to get into discussion of the hows and whys of pornography, but I will say this. Pornography is the sign of a healthy society. A society that makes it possible for people to indulge their fantasies no matter how sick or twisted they get. It's a whole lot better than have a repressed bunch of people who decide to act our their volence in real life. As for Cyber laws - there's a whole lot more important things that they are aimed at than just shutting down pornographic sites. One of the most important issues being that of invasion of privacy. Lastly, the vast amount of erotic Indian Literature that you keep referring to should also include those local roadside magazines, published in virtually every indian language, that contain pretty much the same kind of content that poor old savita bhabi does. And really, there is nothing wrong with celebrating your sister-in-laws sexuality. best, sukanya anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Sukanya, > > I understand it is unfortunate that the website has been blocked for > threatening the sovereignity or integrity of the nation which is why i have > said that the ban is superficial. the website is fucntioning even now. i > could see the contents However, you have understand that cyber laws in > India is still at the nascent stage. There were several other pornographic > sites launched from India in the past. My issue is that when erotic writing > has been a part of Indian literature for a long time where do we fit in the > contents of this website that clearly celebrates the fantasies of the indian > voyeur? And moreover, is it inspired from the stories of these voyeurs who > get bobbitised in reality for attempting rape their aunts or their sisters > reeling under the influence of their day dreams? what is it that this site > is trying to portray ? perhaps government should reconsider the ban but > there has to be a debate on what is the implication of having a site that > celebrates a bhabhi (literally a sister-in-law) and her sexual desires, that > too from the perspective which is not feminine by any means, but mostly > reflects the unabashed voyeurism. > > reagrds anupam > > > On 7/14/09, sukanya ghosh wrote: > >> dear anupam, >> >> 1. The site has been blocked so I don't know what you're looking at. >> 2. This is not about how good or bad the quality of porn is or indeed about >> the indianness of sex explained. It is about the Indian Government having >> invoked the section 67 of the Information Technology Act and the dangers >> therein. >> 3. Do take a moment and ponder on "websites that threaten 'the sovereignty >> or integrity of India, defence and security of the state' or that endanger >> 'friendly relations with foreign states.'" By that logic, this very list >> that we feel free to launch our tirades on can come under fire . . . >> >> cheers >> sukanya >> >> >> >> anupam chakravartty wrote: >> >> >>> Dear Javed, >>> >>> I dont understand the fuss about this website created by Puneet Agarwal. >>> The >>> damn site is still working. Why is he making these claims? some form of >>> publicity for this site. It is unfortunate that Agarwal decided to take up >>> the cause of the quintessential sexually emaciated Bhabhi who actually >>> beaten up every night by her husband. If Mr Agarwal aspires to become >>> Donald >>> Trump for India, then we have done it long time back with Vatsayan very >>> objectively and succintly explaining the sex in indian context. However, >>> the >>> government ban is superficial, that site is still functional and Agarwal >>> is >>> minting a lot of money by crying out publicly about this ban. >>> >>> -anupam >>> >>> >>> On 7/14/09, Javed wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Savita Bhabhi cartoon porn website blocked by Indian security law >>>> >>>> Rhys Blakely in Mumbai >>>> >>>> With her ample bosom, skimpy sari and mischievous grin, Savita Bhabhi, >>>> India’s first and only online cartoon porn star, might not look like a >>>> threat to national security. But the country’s Government has made the >>>> fictional housewife seductress the first target of new laws, passed >>>> after last year’s terror attacks on Mumbai, that allow the authorities >>>> to block dangerous websites. >>>> >>>> The Savita Bhabhi site, which features a series of daily cartoon >>>> strips based on the “sexual adventures of a hot Indian bhabhi” >>>> (sister-in-law), was created by Puneet Agarwal, 38, a British >>>> entrepreneur of Indian descent. Before being blocked in India it was >>>> attracting 60 million visitors a month, about 70 per cent of them from >>>> India. >>>> >>>> The decision to block the site has bemused many onlookers. Despite >>>> featuring the adventures of a “regular Indian woman who just can’t get >>>> enough sex” and being managed by an outfit that calls itself the >>>> Indian Porn Empire, the venture appeared to owe as much to Benny Hill >>>> as to Hustler. One typically titillating storyline involved a >>>> travelling lingerie salesman ringing Savita’s doorbell and the >>>> escapades that followed. (“Can you help me please . . . The hook is >>>> stuck.”) Some pundits argued that Savita’s adventures drew on a rich >>>> tradition of Indian erotica, from the Kama Sutra, which dates back >>>> perhaps two millennia, to a long-established tradition in Indian >>>> popular culture of flirtation between a man and his elder brother’s >>>> wife. But above all, as Tehelka, a news weekly, observed, the strip >>>> appeared to “poke fun at the coy Indian attitude towards sexuality”. >>>> >>>> For those in the corridors of power, however, Savita’s promiscuity was >>>> no laughing matter. Last month the Government ordered internet service >>>> providers to block the site. To do so it evoked section 67 of the >>>> Information Technology Act. The law allows the Government to ban >>>> websites that threaten “the sovereignty or integrity of India, defence >>>> and security of the state” or that endanger “friendly relations with >>>> foreign states”. >>>> >>>> India’s decision to blacklist Savita while continuing to allow >>>> unfettered access to traditional hardcore pornography sites has drawn >>>> ridicule from experts in cyberspace law. >>>> >>>> Sevanti Ninan, a journalist who runs thehoot.org, a media commentary >>>> site, said: “Our relationships with foreign states couldn’t be >>>> friendlier since she went online.” >>>> >>>> Campaigners for Savita’s reinstatement hope to use India’s >>>> freedomof-information laws to uncover who demanded that the site be >>>> blacklisted. >>>> >>>> Others have sought solace in the failure of other countries to police >>>> the web. The columnist Venkatesan Vembu said: “The government ban is >>>> about as impotent as Savita Bhabhi’s workaholic, sexually clueless >>>> husband, and as her growing legion of fans has discovered, there are >>>> ways of getting around the ban by using proxy, anonymiser websites >>>> that cover your tracks.” >>>> >>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6683611.ece >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 09:43:42 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:43:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: <4A5CD532.4010200@gmail.com> References: <341380d00907140429q72a5bf6esa73919423e8d4f7f@mail.gmail.com> <4A5C792B.2080501@gmail.com> <341380d00907140550w2567cfcbndd78b7ede957b388@mail.gmail.com> <4A5CD532.4010200@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree with Sukanya. What this Savita bhabi site shows is exactly what appears in the erotic chapbooks sold on footpaths in Hindi and other languages - I remember some school friends reading them between the covers of textbooks. Such literature has existed all this while and the govt. never bans it. But Sukanya's admission that pornography exists and its a sign of healthy society - I am sure the gender activists will not agree. Why should men see the female body only as a thing of desire and lust. I am sure women don't always want their bodies to be treated like that. I remember once reading a story by a woman who wanted her big breasts to be cut off by surgery as men always used to ogle at them or press them in a crowd. I sometime wonder if there's something wrong with biology/nature? J On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 12:27 AM, sukanya ghosh wrote: > anupam, > > What you are raising, are moral objections and there is a simple > solution to it - if it offends you don't look/read it. Are you > suggesting that people (Indians) should restrict their fantasies to the > stipulated traditions of indian erotica from the past? And would you > rather that we gave in to policing the internet and made way for some > more repression and passive aggression? Porn exists. It would take a > really long time to get into discussion of the hows and whys of > pornography, but I will say this. Pornography is the sign of a healthy > society. A society that makes it possible for people to indulge their > fantasies no matter how sick or twisted they get. It's a whole lot > better than have a repressed bunch of people who decide to act our their > volence in real life. > > As for Cyber laws - there's a whole lot more important things that they > are aimed at than just shutting down pornographic sites. One of the most > important issues being that of invasion of privacy. > > Lastly, the vast amount of erotic Indian Literature that you keep > referring to should also include those local roadside magazines, > published in virtually every indian language, that contain pretty much > the same kind of content that poor old savita bhabi does. And really, > there is nothing wrong with celebrating your sister-in-laws sexuality. > > best, > sukanya > > > > > anupam chakravartty wrote: >> Dear Sukanya, >> >> I understand it is unfortunate that the website has been blocked for >> threatening the sovereignity or integrity of the nation which is why i have >> said that the ban is superficial. the website is fucntioning even now. i >> could see the contents  However, you have understand that cyber laws in >> India is still at the nascent stage. There were several other pornographic >> sites launched from India in the past. My issue is that when erotic writing >> has been a part of Indian literature for a long time where do we fit in the >> contents of this website that clearly celebrates the fantasies of the indian >> voyeur? And moreover, is it inspired from the stories of these voyeurs who >> get bobbitised in reality for attempting rape their aunts or their sisters >> reeling under the influence of their day dreams? what is it that this site >> is trying to portray ? perhaps government should reconsider the ban but >> there has to be a debate on what is the implication of having a site that >> celebrates a bhabhi (literally a sister-in-law) and her sexual desires, that >> too from the perspective which is not feminine by any means, but mostly >> reflects the unabashed voyeurism. >> >> reagrds anupam >> >> >> On 7/14/09, sukanya ghosh wrote: >> >>> dear anupam, >>> >>> 1. The site has been blocked so I don't know what you're looking at. >>> 2. This is not about how good or bad the quality of porn is or indeed about >>> the indianness of sex explained. It is about the Indian Government having >>> invoked the section 67 of the Information Technology Act and the dangers >>> therein. >>> 3. Do take a moment and ponder on "websites that threaten 'the sovereignty >>> or integrity of India, defence and security of the state' or that endanger >>> 'friendly relations with foreign states.'" By that logic, this very list >>> that we feel free to launch our tirades on can come under fire . . . >>> >>> cheers >>> sukanya >>> >>> >>> >>> anupam chakravartty wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Dear Javed, >>>> >>>> I dont understand the fuss about this website created by Puneet Agarwal. >>>> The >>>> damn site is still working. Why is he making these claims? some form of >>>> publicity for this site. It is unfortunate that Agarwal decided to take up >>>> the cause of the quintessential sexually emaciated Bhabhi who actually >>>> beaten up every night by her husband. If Mr Agarwal aspires to become >>>> Donald >>>> Trump for India, then we have done it long time back with Vatsayan very >>>> objectively and succintly explaining the sex in indian context. However, >>>> the >>>> government ban is superficial, that site is still functional and Agarwal >>>> is >>>> minting a lot of money by crying out publicly about this ban. >>>> >>>> -anupam >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/14/09, Javed wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Savita Bhabhi cartoon porn website blocked by Indian security law >>>>> >>>>> Rhys Blakely in Mumbai >>>>> >>>>> With her ample bosom, skimpy sari and mischievous grin, Savita Bhabhi, >>>>> India’s first and only online cartoon porn star, might not look like a >>>>> threat to national security. But the country’s Government has made the >>>>> fictional housewife seductress the first target of new laws, passed >>>>> after last year’s terror attacks on Mumbai, that allow the authorities >>>>> to block dangerous websites. >>>>> >>>>> The Savita Bhabhi site, which features a series of daily cartoon >>>>> strips based on the “sexual adventures of a hot Indian bhabhi” >>>>> (sister-in-law), was created by Puneet Agarwal, 38, a British >>>>> entrepreneur of Indian descent. Before being blocked in India it was >>>>> attracting 60 million visitors a month, about 70 per cent of them from >>>>> India. >>>>> >>>>> The decision to block the site has bemused many onlookers. Despite >>>>> featuring the adventures of a “regular Indian woman who just can’t get >>>>> enough sex” and being managed by an outfit that calls itself the >>>>> Indian Porn Empire, the venture appeared to owe as much to Benny Hill >>>>> as to Hustler. One typically titillating storyline involved a >>>>> travelling lingerie salesman ringing Savita’s doorbell and the >>>>> escapades that followed. (“Can you help me please . . . The hook is >>>>> stuck.”) Some pundits argued that Savita’s adventures drew on a rich >>>>> tradition of Indian erotica, from the Kama Sutra, which dates back >>>>> perhaps two millennia, to a long-established tradition in Indian >>>>> popular culture of flirtation between a man and his elder brother’s >>>>> wife. But above all, as Tehelka, a news weekly, observed, the strip >>>>> appeared to “poke fun at the coy Indian attitude towards sexuality”. >>>>> >>>>> For those in the corridors of power, however, Savita’s promiscuity was >>>>> no laughing matter. Last month the Government ordered internet service >>>>> providers to block the site. To do so it evoked section 67 of the >>>>> Information Technology Act. The law allows the Government to ban >>>>> websites that threaten “the sovereignty or integrity of India, defence >>>>> and security of the state” or that endanger “friendly relations with >>>>> foreign states”. >>>>> >>>>> India’s decision to blacklist Savita while continuing to allow >>>>> unfettered access to traditional hardcore pornography sites has drawn >>>>> ridicule from experts in cyberspace law. >>>>> >>>>> Sevanti Ninan, a journalist who runs thehoot.org, a media commentary >>>>> site, said: “Our relationships with foreign states couldn’t be >>>>> friendlier since she went online.” >>>>> >>>>> Campaigners for Savita’s reinstatement hope to use India’s >>>>> freedomof-information laws to uncover who demanded that the site be >>>>> blacklisted. >>>>> >>>>> Others have sought solace in the failure of other countries to police >>>>> the web. The columnist Venkatesan Vembu said: “The government ban is >>>>> about as impotent as Savita Bhabhi’s workaholic, sexually clueless >>>>> husband, and as her growing legion of fans has discovered, there are >>>>> ways of getting around the ban by using proxy, anonymiser websites >>>>> that cover your tracks.” >>>>> >>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6683611.ece >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>>> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 10:19:03 2009 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:19:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Asrar's murder cracked-Greater Kashmir Message-ID: <13df7c120907142149o3dd71795k1c7cf9c793be3e9d@mail.gmail.com> No luck for separatists-Asrar unfortunately killed by his own Friends and not security forces.Wonder how many more are missing like this.Pray why destroy Cafe Arabica and force Pandits living in Purushyar temple join protests. Hum kya chahtee- Barbadi http://greaterkashmir.com/today/full_story.asp?Date=15_7_2009&ItemID=124&cat=1 Srinagar, July 14: Police have solved the sensational murder of 20-year old youth, Asrar Mushtaq, of Maisuma, and arrested two of his friends. Highly placed JK police sources told Greater Kashmir on Tuesday that Imran of Ilahi Bagh and Asim of Soura had confessed their crime. Asrar’s bike and his blood stained clothes have been recovered. *Giving details of the case, a highly placed police official said, “The accused Imran had developed intimate relations with a girl for more than a year and, of late, Asrar had developed close relations with the same girl whom Imran was dating. After Asrar started dating the girl, Imran felt jealous and decided to teach him a lesson,” he said. * “He hatched a conspiracy along with his accomplice, Asim, to eliminate him. On that fateful day Imran invited Asrar to his house at Ilahi Bagh. He hit Asrar with an iron rod killing him on the spot. After realizing that he is dead, he locked Asrar’s body in his house and left for his maternal uncle’s house in Karan Nagar,” the official said. He said that on July 7 Imran took Asrar’s body in his maternal uncle’s car and dumped it at Malkhah in old city. “Imran dumped Asrar’s motorcycle at Asim’s, house in Soura,” he said. After sustained interrogation, the official said, Imran confessed that he along with his accomplice, Asim, had murdered, Asrar in cold blood and tried to destroy the evidence. “Police have cracked the case and got scientific evidence to nail the murderers,” the official said, adding, “On the basis of the investigations, we will be able to get exemplary punishment for the killers.” A senior government functionary said, “Involvement of the friends of Asrar in his murder should serve as an eye opener for those who indulge in agitational politics without ascertaining the truth. The government is committed to solve all the cases and bring killers to book.” Asrar Mushtaq had gone missing on July 3 and his body was recovered from Malkhah on July 7. The incident had triggered massive protests in the city. -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:36:12 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:36:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] piece by Monbiot Message-ID: <564b2fca0907142306g7c944f08o339c53b789c28701@mail.gmail.com> The rich can relax. We just need the poor world to cut emissions. By 125% British and G8 climate strategy just doesn't add up. As soon as serious curbs are needed it turns into impossible nonsense - - guardian.co.uk , Monday 13 July 2009 21.00 BST Well, at least that clears up the mystery. Over the past year I've been fretting over an intractable contradiction. The government has promised spectacular cuts in greenhouse gas emissions. It is also pushing through new roads and runways, approving coal-burning power stations, bailing out car manufacturers and ditching regulations for low-carbon homes. How can these policies be reconciled? We will find out tomorrow, when it publishes a series of papers on carbon reduction. According to one person who has read the drafts, the new policies will include buying up to 50% of the reduction from abroad. If this is true, it means that the UK will not cut its greenhouse gases by 80% by 2050, as the government promised. It means it will cut them by 40%. Offsetting half our emissions (which means paying other countries to cut them on our behalf) makes a mockery of the government's climate change programme. The figure might have changed between the draft and final documents, but let's take it at face value for the moment, to see what happens when rich nations offload their obligations. What I am about to explain is the simple mathematical reason why any large-scale programme of offsets is unjust, contradictory and ultimately impossible. Last week the G8 summit adopted the UK's two key targets: it proposed that developed countries should reduce their greenhouse gases by 80% by 2050 to prevent more than two degrees of global warming. This meant that it also adopted the UK's key contradiction, as there is no connection between these two aims. An 80% cut is very unlikely to prevent two degrees of warming; in fact it's not even the right measure, as I'll explain later on. But let's work out what happens if the other rich nations adopt both the UK's targets and its draft approach to carbon offsets. Please bear with me on this: the point is an important one. There are some figures involved, but I'll use only the most basic arithmetic, which anyone with a calculator can reproduce. The G8 didn't explain what it meant by "developed countries", but I'll assume it was referring to the nations listed in Annex 1of the Kyoto protocol: those that have promised to limit their greenhouse gases by 2012. (If it meant the OECD nations, the results are very similar.) To keep this simple and consistent, I'll consider just the carbon emissions from burning fossil fuels, as listed by US Energy Information Administration . It doesn't publish figures for Monaco and Lichtenstein, but we can forgive that. The 38 remaining Annex 1 countries produce 15bn tonnes of CO2, or 51% of global emissions. Were they to do as the UK proposes, cutting this total by 80% and offsetting half of it, they would have to buy reductions equal to 20% of the world's total carbon production. This means that other countries would need to cut 42% of their emissions just to absorb our carbon offsets. But the G8 has also adopted another of the UK's targets: a global cut of 50% by 2050. Fifty per cent of world production is 14.6bn tonnes. If the Annex 1 countries reduce their emissions by 80% (including offsets), they will trim global output by 12bn tonnes. The other countries must therefore find further cuts of 2.6bn tonnes. Added to the offsets they've sold, this means that their total obligation is 8.6bn tonnes, or 60% of their current emissions. So here's the outcome. The rich nations, if they follow the UK's presumed lead, will cut their carbon pollution by 40%. The poorer nations will cut their carbon pollution by 60%. If global justice means anything, the rich countries must make deeper cuts than the poor. We have the most to cut and can best afford to forgo opportunities for development. If nations like the UK cannot make deep reductions, no one can. We could, as I showed in my book Heat, reduce emissions by 90% without seriously damaging our quality of life. But this carries a political price. Business must be asked to write off sunk costs, people must be asked to make minor changes in the way they live. This country appears to be doing what it has done throughout colonial and postcolonial history: dumping its political problems overseas, rather than confronting them at home. Befuddled yet? I haven't explained the half of it. As the G8 leaders know, a global cut of 50% offers only a faint to nonexistent chance of meeting their ultimate objective: preventing more than two degrees of warming. In its latest summary of climate science, published in 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change suggested that a high chance of preventing more than two degrees of warming requires a global cut of 85% by 2050. In drafting the climate change act, the UK government promised to keep matching the target to the science. It has already raised its cut from 60% to 80% by 2050. If it sticks to its promise it will have to raise it again. Global average CO2 emissions are 4.48 tonnes per person per year. Cutting the world total by 85% means reducing this to 0.67 tonnes. Average per capita output in the 38 Annex 1 countries is 10 tonnes; to hit this target they must cut their emissions by 93.3% by 2050. If the rich persist in offsetting 50% of this cut, the poorer countries would have to reduce their emissions by 7bn tonnes to absorb our offsets. To meet a global average of 0.67 tonnes, they would also need to chop their own output by a further 10.8bn tonnes. This means a total cut of 17.8bn tonnes, or 125% of their current emissions. I hope you have spotted the flaw. In fact, even the IPCC's proposal has been superseded. Two recent papers in Nature show that the measure that counts is not the proportion of current emissions producedon a certain date, but the total amount of greenhouse gases we release. An 85% cut by 2050 could produce completely different outcomes. If most of the cut took place at the beginning of the period, our cumulative emissions would be quite low. If, as the US Waxman- Markey billproposes, it takes place towards the end, they would be much higher. To deliver a high chance of preventing two degrees of warming, we would need to cut global emissions by something like 10% by the end of next year and 25% by 2012. This is a challenge no government is yet prepared to accept. Carbon offsetting makes sense if you are seeking a global cut of 5% between now and for ever. It is the cheapest and quickest way of achieving an insignificant reduction. But as soon as you seek substantial cuts, it becomes an unfair, impossible nonsense, the equivalent of pulling yourself off the ground by your whiskers. Yes, let us help poorer nations to reduce deforestation and clean up pollution. But let us not pretend that it lets us off the hook. ** From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:38:47 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:38:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <564b2fca0907142308gf18baedp4fa044345baef82b@mail.gmail.com> The ban on the website reminds one of that satirical song by Tom Lehrer, on freedom of expression and porn. Naga From sen.jhuma at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:43:46 2009 From: sen.jhuma at gmail.com (Jhuma Sen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:43:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Afghanistan legalizes rape, starvation of women Message-ID: <85a3156a0907142313m65bad749o6800a9c0f2c0c338@mail.gmail.com> This week, Afghan President Hamid Karzai signed legislation which among other things, allows Afghan men to starve their wives if they refuse to have sex with them. The measure was an amendment to a law which have husbands the right to force themselves on their wives, if they did not consent. http://www.examiner.com/x-5919-Norfolk-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d11-Afghanistan-legalizes-rape-starvation-of-women More here: http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=3462 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 11:59:10 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:59:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] History: Kalhana Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907142329l430e70a2x171da9468bef9c3f@mail.gmail.com> Kalhana The Great Poet-Historian of Ancient Kashmir The very name of Kalhana brings to our minds the vision of wonder and splendour that was Kashmir. Francis Young Husband remarks: "Kashmir, a country of such a striking natural beauty, sure at some periods of history must have produced a refined and noble people. Amid these glorious mountains, breathing this free and bracing air and brightened by constant sunshine, there must have sprung a strong, virile and yet aesthetic race". And it is to this race from the pre-historic time to 1150 A.D. that Kalhana holds his colourful mirror. Packed into the pages of his Rajtarangini is a massive amount of information and wisdom presented in a deeply fascinating and illuminating Sanskrit poetry. Written about eight hundred years ago, during 1149-50, Rajtarangini is a glorious history and a beauteous poem, replete with the charm of Kalhana's noble, melodious and graceful Sanskrit language. KALHANA AS A MAN Poetry-narrative poetry especially-acquired interest, importance and intensity of appeal in proportion to the personality of the poet that it reflects. We must know the indefinable essence of the poet's mind, the je ne sais guoi that distinguishes him from others and that endows him with a peculiar fascination. Not much is known about the life of Kalhana. It is only in the colophons of his work and from his successor Jona Raja that we know some facts about his origin and person. Kalhana was the son of Campka, who was a "dwarpati", a commandant of the king Harsha who ruled from A.D. 1089-1101. When Jayasimha ascended the throne of Kashmir after the death of Sussala in A.D. 1127, Kalhana became his court poet. Undoubtedly, this must have given the poet-historian an opportunity to have a close-up of the contemporary political scene of the state. He had received an excellent education, which amply equipped him for the colossal task that he intended to undertake. We can, from his voluminous book, easily trace the outlines of his life as a student. He was acquainted with the older standard Kavyas such as Raghuvansha, and Meghadutta. He also had meticulously studied Bilhana's historical poem Vikramankadevacharita of Kanauj. Kalhana had an intimate knowledge of the great epic Mahabharata, for we find numerous references to this book in Rajtarangini. We have sufficient indication of his literary training as there are frequent allusions and references to particular poets and scholars. Besides he had made a deep study of Jotishsasha. He had also received training in rhetoric, grammar and poetics. Kalhana appears to have been a sober-minded historian of an unfeigned character.No doubt, he had aversion for material rise and rewards, and he seems to have possessed coruscating wit and wisdom. In an endearing naivete in Kalhana were compounded goodness, charity, learning, piety, and a belief in the good of everyone. Even though he was a staunch Hindu Brahmin yet he had deep sympathy and affection for Buddhism and what it professed. KALHANA AND HISTORY There are two aspects of Rajtarangini like the two sides of a coin, one is historical and the other is poetic. Am Toynbee opines that' in any age of any society the study of history like other social activities, is governed by the dominant tendencies of the time and place". In the days Kalhana lived, all the social, cultural and political activities revolved round the person of the king; he was the pivot. And the "Divine Right of Democracy" as against the "Divine Right of the Kings" was unknown in those days. In the bonds of the feudal system of the benign kind, the people saw a symbol of the true brotherhood of Man. Therefore, in those days, as to Carlyle in the present days, "history was the essence of innumerable biographies. It is the record of great personalities". Thus Kalhana also gives us the "river of kings" and does not expatiate upon the socio-economic and other problems of the common people. He thought, as was the belief in those days, that a spiritual logic governs the lives of the great men-kings, queens, ministers, etc., which the Greeks called Nemesis and we may call law. Therefore, his job, in the words of R.G. Col lingwood, was "to tell man what man is by telling him what man has done". Secondly, in those days, history was a special branch of literature and Prof. G.M. Trevelyan also holds that "while the historical facts should be scientific in method, the exposition of them for the reader should partake of the nature of art, the art of written word, commonly called literature". As regards Kalhana's philosophy of history, it was based on the Hindu theory of Karma, actions of the present existence as also of the past one. These form the causes for the effects. Kalhana was a staunch Brahmin. He owes to Brahminism a taste for intellectuality, the habit and need for it and, to a great extent, a pride in it. Combined with a natural gift of a wellbalanced temperament and a keen intelligence, that influence endowed him with a spiritual faculty and a profound belief in the high ideal of renunciation. At many places he tried to show that this world was but a vanity fair and depicted that vanity of human wishes. He showered encomiums on kings who, in the later stage of life,. renounced the world and went to the woods to seek God. No man worked more consciously at his subjectthan he, no writerhas tried to test the facts as scrupulously as was then possible, or preserving more judicial detachment. The first three books of Rajtarangini, no doubt, are a coat of many colours, yet for all its composite character it is not a thing of patch-work quality, but a harmonious assortment of myths, tales and true history. Kalhana desired to set down the truth as far as he could know. For the earlier part of his chronicle he assiduously collected and studied the works of previous writers and borrowed from the oral tradition and mythology but in the contemporary records (from the fourth book onwards) he wrote of things he had seen or heard in many instances, because of his early high position, he had been in personal contact with the warriors, statesmen and ministers. He could even handle the state documents and hence the value of his records. About the history of contemporary times as well, he writes frankly and fearlessly so that he could have almost been involved in a libel action had he lived in these times. He has studied the chronicles with gems of enchanting anecdotes but these too open to us a window into the past, for inspite of a certain wildness and riotous imagination, there is a considerable amount of general and local topography to be gleaned from these fantastic tales. But, even for a modern critic he has one rare quality, that is, the power of vitalizing the past for us, which compensates for so many defects, like lack of reasonableness. A few names, those of Parvarsena II, Lalitaditya, Jayapida, Avantivarman, Queen Didda, Sussala and Jayasimha, etc. stand out among a host of petty kings, most of whom, as Kalhana says, resemble the bubbles produced in the water by a downpour of rain. They did little to merit the remembrance by posterity. Parvarsena II. Matrigupta, the Brahmin ruler of Kashmir, turned a recluse at the death of his patron Vikramaditya and left for Banaras to spend his last days in worship and meditation. Parvarsena, who was then in Kangra, marched on to Kashmir to recover the throne of his forefathers. Thus in 580 A.D. he ascended the throne and made his name immortal by founding the city of Parvarsenagar, the present city of Srinagar. In Rajtarangini, we find the reflection of shimmering Srinagar of his time which, was an Elysium for its happy denizens. Lalitaditya. He was a great conqueror and his extensive conquests made the kingdom of Kashmir the most powerful empire in India. In this he was helped by the commander of his army, Mulchander, a scion of the ruling family of Nagarkot, Kangra. Lalitaditya is also considered as founder of Hindu art and the Sun-Temple of Martand stands a living testimony to his greatness. Jayapida. He too made many conquests and was a great patron of art and letters. His benefactions to Brahmins are laudable. But, in the later part of his life, he became Mephistophelian in character and conduct. At the end he fell a victim to divine vengeance when a Brahmin of Tula Mula cursed the king for his arrogance. Avantivarman. He ruled from 853 A.D. and his period was one of consolidation, peace and prosperity. In his time there was a great engineer Suya, who rescued Kashmir from a devastating flood. The river Jhelum, which is a gullet of Kashmir, had got clogged with waste matter, stones and earth. By a clever stratagem, Suya got the blockade of the river cleared by a rabble. His artefact canals helped to bring the bounteous harvests and thereby the country became affluent. Avantivarman found the town of Avantipura and built a great temple of Surya there. Its ruins rank among the most magnificent monuments of ancient Kashmir. Queen Didda. Abhimanu, who was on the throne from 958 A.D. to 972 A.D., was a child when he ascended the throne and so his mother became the regent and exercised all royal powers herself. She ruled with an iron hand with the help of her minister, Phalguna, who belonged to Poonch. This minister, who was earlier dismissed by her and then recalled, became her favourite and also her paramour. She led a life of dissipation which was her undoing. During her rule a large part of Srinagar was burnt. Sussala. He became the king in 1112 A.D. and after wreaking vengeance upon his brother's assassins, ruled peacefully but in 1128 he was murdered. During his rule administration was not corrupt and there was absence of low moral and political standard as in the time of his predecessors. Jayasimha. He ruled from A.D. 1128-55. He was a model for Machiavelli's prince, for he gained his ends by sheer diplomacy. He conquered his enemies by this method and brought peace to the Valley. He had an able and astute commander of the army, Mulchander, a scion of the ruling family of Nagarkot, Kangra. The special merit of Kalhana is his impartiality and independence and even of Harsha, under whom his father served, he speaks with asperity. In the later parts of the chronicle he shows a profound sense of historical truthfulness. In the topographical details he is marvellously exact. Dr. Sunil Chander Ray says: "But he does not act as a mere reporter. Kalhana, the narrator ofevents and Kalhana, the thinker who explains the facts by causes and effects and exposes the principles which underline them are one and invisible self, who does not marshal the facts to illustrate his thesis, much does he manipulate them to fit a doctrine of his own; his philosophy waits upon the facts and does not govern them". According to Suresh Chander Bannerji, the ancientpoetical works of Kashmir can be divided into the following classes: (i) Poems with historical themes (ii) Didactic and satirical poetry (iii) Court-epics (iv) Devotional poems (v) Anthologies (vi) Miscellaneous poems Kalhana looked upon himself in the light of a poet and with the following words he introduces his book: "Worthy of praise is that power of true poets, whatever it may be, which surpasses even the stream of nectar, in as much as by their own bodies of glory as well as those of others obtain immortality. Who else but poets resembling Prajapatis and able to bring forth lovely productions can place the past before the eyes of man?" These words suffice to show that his Rajtarangini belongs to the first genre. The form and style suited for this type of a poem does not allow the lavish and luxuriant use of the subtle arts of Alamkarshastras, and though he had received thorough training in rhetorics, the Alamkarshastra and had a good mastery of Sanskrit kavya and the principles underlying them, he still falls victim to "amplification" and rhetorical frills and ornamentation at frequent places. Stein says that Kalhana avoids, to a great extent, the use of endless similes, the hackneyed description of seasons, scenery, etc. Rajtaranginl, comparatively free from these burdensome embellishments, shows, to a great extent, directness and simplicity of diction. Poetry (Kavya), the ancient poets defined as "speech, the soul of which was Rasa ". According to R.S. Pandit, there were eight Rasas or sentiments I. Sringara (Love) II. Hasya (Mirth) III. Karuna (Pity) IV. Yira (Heroism) V. Raudra (Anger or fury) VI. Bhayanaka (Terror) VII. Bibhatsa (Disgust) VIII. Santa (Tranquility or contentment These being the essence of poetry, one finds them in the verses of Rajtarangini. According to Stein, it is the Santarasa, or the sentiment of resignation which is exhibited in the various component parts of the poem. Unfortunately, the deep desire of emphasizing this Rasa is found supreme in many long stories ofrenunciation and tragic ends of the kings. In describing the individual characters of such kings this sentiment plays a dominant part. But all other Rasas are found in various parts of the narratives. In fact, at different places, particularly at the beginning and at the end of each cantos, the metres are changed to suit the particular Rasa Rajtarangini essentially contains narrative poetry and such a poetry deals with incidents and actions rather than with thought and emotion. But this is a vague division. The prominent feature is the narrative poetry which usually contains a story and makes liberal use of description. Rajtarangini too contains the story element, the narrative element and description blended harmoniously. The Story element. The book is bedecked with a number of significant and inspiring incidents in the very life-stories of the kings. It is not without purpose that he brings stories of high romance in the books. Some of these stories are masterpieces ofcharm and restrained horror and show Kalhana's interest in occult and witchcraft. These stories are part and parcel of the main history. Take, for example, one of King Sandhiman, who was a minister of Jayendra. He was a man of remarkable intelligence. Some sycophants of the king poisoned the ears of the king against Sandhiman and he was put in a prison and after ten years, when the king was on the death-bed, he ordered that he should be killed. His Guru Isana heard of it and went to the cremation ground to perform the last rites. He found Sandhiman's body eaten by wolves. Isana pulled down the skeleton and found on its forehead inscribed these words: "Poverty so long as there is life, ten years imprisonment, death on the top of the stake and then there will be sovereignty". Isana, the Guru remained there to see the fulfillment of the prophecy. And once at midnight he saw, Yognis, the celestial beings, were repairing the dead body. Then they brought life to it. Thus Sandhiman became alive and in the company of his Guru entered the city of Srinagar and the people crowned him as their king. Similarly, there are other romantic stories, for example, the lovestory of King Durlabhaka and the wife of a bania from Rohtak, from whose union was born the great King Lalitaditya; the love of Chakarvarrnan for a dancing girl Hamsi, whom he made his chief queen. Then there is the odyssey of Jayapida and the sacrifice of his servant for him. The book abounds in innumerable beautiful stories which are like pearls strung on the thread of history. Kalhana saw history as a pageant sweeping by with tableau, characters and moments of high drama. But behind the changing scenes was a movement, a pattern which he discovered and tried to interpret. He saw the stories of the kings and the great struggles as expression ofmoral destiny and felt, in the lives of the kings, queens and other men, the "still sad music of humanity". He has made the dry bones of his characters live for us and they move with easy conviction. NARRATION Kalhana actually knows how to tell his tales and historical events, how to weave his stories into patterns of pleasing poetry, how to narrate in felicitous words. He has this gift in a facile and abounding measure. Kalhana's narration contains beautiful passages which are full of force and vigour and many flourishes. The phrases and the language used are sweet and clear. One may note with what charm Kalhana narrates the meeting of King Jayapida with the dancing girl Kamla: Kamla, the dancing girl too saw with wonder the wondrous king with an uncommon mien. The maid by mellifluous conversation conducted him to Kamla's abode. The king was struck with her courtesy her tenderness, her grace, her loveliness. When the moon had risen she took him to her chamber of repose. There lying on a golden couch, elated by the inebriating wine practised the arts of amour on the Emperor. But when he did not untie the nether garments Kamla felt humble and humiliated. The king clasped her to his big bosom and softly and sadly said: "It's not, oh, beauteous one, with eyes like the lotus petal, that you have not touched my heart, but my misfortunes of the moment make me the offender". How sweet and amorous are some portions of his narration-they are the very ambrosia for the sensuous. DRAMATIC POWER His lengthy subject matter did not allow him the use of dramatic narration but still he displays the use of dramatic force in the treatment of certain incidents, which are full of pathos and pain. The end of the ill-fated Harsha, staggering to his doom, his helplessness, betrayal and desertion by all are clearly narrated with dramatic art. The following lines may, in this connection, be noted: History of Harsha is wondrous and woeful as of reincarnate Rama or marvellous Mahabharata Like the lightning in the clouds fortune is fidgety and forsakes; sudden rise has a sudden fall; men proud of pep and power with love and lure for gold are never satiated with riches. The king and concubines in his harem But none wept, none felt sorrow at his tragic time. Many a servant who danced to his tune forsook him and left him forlorn How sad! men leave not mundane matters and take to woods on seeing the heartlessness of people; whose minds are engrossed in pleasures. We know not where from we come nor where we go hereafter. Between the two eternities we toss on the rock of life, like actors we act our sad part and then depart. DESCRIPTION The descriptions given by Kalhana are fresh and vivid. The language corresponds to the sentiment and the kind of effect he wants to produce in the mind of the reader. We shudder to read of the shocking sight of Harsha's end: On the bank of the river Stood the king, sadly saw the Damaras dark and ugly, on the opposite bank. The queens, fair as fairies Fresh and fragrant with rosy ornaments were on sudden dismayed. The king entered his magnificent mansion with hundred doors, perspiring, his armour slipping from shoulders; his hair dishevelled; with no ornaments in ears; his lips pale and parched which he licked with his tongue. Pathetically he gazed at his queens, who with sad steps and languished looks climbed up and set the palace on fire. The dark Damaras rushed in and made away with cloth, the glittering pearls and plates and darling damsels. The lovely queens perishing in the leaping flames. The bursting sounds of burning houses were roarings of summer clouds on the sea. The king's kingdom gone, his glory gone; All, all gone, he yearned to die not knowing where to lay his head. Thus Kalhana, when fired by the dramatic dealings of his subject into descriptive writing of the highest kind, can be eloquent and impressive without being in any way flamboyant or verbose. He beautifully and succinctly describes Kashmir as: "Learning, high dwelling houses, saffron, iced water, grapes and the like-what is common place there is difficult to secure in Paradise". One can enjoy the descriptive splendour in the story of king Durlabhaka's love for the wife of a merchant from Rohtak, Nona: The king was entertained by Nona in his magnificent mansion lighted by bright stones his wife was exalted in charm and loveliness Full breasts she had, charm of exquisite hip Ah! the very spirit of felicity in love. She kindled great passion in the king, without gaining contact he felt she was ambrosia of bliss who had touched him in the marrow. The lady-love looked with a slight turn of face and herself was struck with the dart of love. Equally eloquent and impressive is Jayapida's end. Kalhana's description of his death has the "solemn inevitability of Greek drama and is a masterpiece of restrained horror". He gives a good picture of the courts of various kings and queens chivvying and slobbering over their favourites. CHARACTERIZATION His verses open for us the magic casements through which we have a glimpse of the world of his time. We see the swaggering soldiers, the noble or quixotic kings, high-born maidens, sparkling dancing girls, odious hypocrites, cantakerous queens, supernatural beings and even common men drawn with rare skill. There is a prodigious number of such characters in the book whom he had boldly and brilliantly observed or heard of and his lively and prolific pen has drawn them with realism and historical truth. Kalhana has concentrated on the nuances of character and all his characters are individualised and throb with life and with infinite credibility. In fact, they are all described with the authenticity which springs from direct knowledge. Of course, he does not probe into the inner workings of their minds; this he could not do for he was essentially a historian and could see them from the outside. In most of his tragic characters, there is some fraility, which brings about them their tragedy: "Chakarvarman loves flattery and those who flattered him; Hayendra's ears could be poisoned easily. Thus his courtiers poisoned his ears against his ablest minister Sandhimati. Harsha suffered from his lackadaisical nature and outrageously neglected the state affairs. In the end he takes refuge in a beggar's hovel where he is hunted down and mercilessly killed. Sussala had the terrible spirit of vengeance. And then the great Lalitaditya, the "meteor of his conquest lured (him) too far". He uses great poetic power in the description of his characters, for example, he describes Jaluka thus: The English rendering has been done by J.C. Dutt. About Jayasimha he writes: "Then became king, that son of Jaluka, leader of men and gods, who with the nectar of his glory rendered gleaming white the cosmic world". "His talk which, though indistinct owing to his youth, is full of dignity, resembles the sound, soft with nectar, which issued when the ocean was churned". USES OF FIGURES According to Alamkarasastras, the essential elements of kavya are metaphors, similes, puns and the endless varieties of poetic figures. Kalhana makes frequent use of these rhetorical ornaments in some particular portions, more or less episodic. The length of the history he has to narrate, Kalhana himself explains, puts fetters on his own pen and it was difficult for him to make a liberal use of such embellishments. If we have to find out his dexterity and skill in writing in florid style we must read such incidents as Chakravarman's and Sussala's triumphant entries into the capital or Bhikscan's last fight. Note some of these similes found in his book: 1. "As the approach of the monsoon is known by the frisking bucking of the heifers, by the ascent to the tree tops of the serpents, by the transport of their eggs by the families of ants, so now the king considering through evil portents that disaster was close at hand set about preparing for adequate measures". 2. "Now in the beginning of the year ninety six the Damara horde was ready to swoop down like a glacier at the touch of heat". 3. "for the former, seated on an elephant, with a drawn sword was always roaming about absorbing from the land all that was valuable just as the sun sucks of moisture". Rajtarangini is full of wise maxims and proverbs, for example: 1. "The sun does not come to his spouse in the evening without conquering the whole world". 2. "Mean persons who have failed in the competition for fame and who have lost their sleep on account of poverty of merit injure through jealousy the lives of those who are blessed with intelligence". 3. "There is not a son of harlot who is immoral, no one is free from treason who has been a suspect, no one who talks little speaks uselessly, no one who is not a government servant has an ungrateful mind; no one is a m iser but one born in the house of him who refuses to give in charity; no one is continually miserable save the envious; none is universally ridiculed but he who is of mature age; none is hostile to the father if not begotten by another; there is none lustful who is not devoid of shame ; no one is greater miscreant than he who has a little learning". 4. " He who has been the support for his rise to a high place the king cuts him down, like a woodcutter the branch of the tree by which he has gone up, when he is coming down". KALHANA'S PHILOSOPHY AND ETHICS In the Middle Ages, in Kashmir, cosmic force, the animating principles of Indian Pantheism, was worshipped under the name of Shiva. Shiva represents the sublime aspect of God. A profound philosophy, known as Kashmir Shaivism, had developed since the ninth century, which inspired the artist, the sculptor as well as the poet. Kalhana too had perfect devotion to Lord Shiva and his cognition, conation and affection, the three functions of his mind, seem to have come to have Shiva alone as their end. Thus Kalhana believes that man's mind should flow constantly towards Shiva- and make it get absorbed there. The faith of Kalhana in Lord Shiva is known by the fact that each book of Rajtarangini starts with his payer to the Lord. Besides, he believed in the power of Fate and the influence of spiritual merits from the previous births. Kalhana, musing over the incomprehensive power of Destiny argues: "Occupied in different affairs, with the limitation of dependence, everyone strives to frustrate Fate's Persistent operations with energy. It is amazing that its wondrous power, even in these conditions, comes to light, through whose might the success of various events is achieved free from hindrance". But the main philosophy which he emphasises in rhetorical language is renunciation which governs the didactic feature in his book. The transitory nature of all mundane glory, the uncertainty ofroyal possessions and the retribution which inevitably follow offences against the moral laws, these are lessons which Kalhana never tires of impressing upon his readers. Thus Kalhana insists on moral endurance, moral duty and moral individuality, obedience to the eternal laws of right, resistance to the oppression of outward and inward evil. CONCLUSION But his subject-matter and insistent awareness of moral mission made him too self-conscious, deprived his poetry of high imagination, rather made it in many portions banal and broke the wings of his songbirds, to some extent, in such places. Moreover, to a modern man with scientific outlook, some parts would appear just a balderdash and the beliefthat Destiny always holds a Damocles' sword on one's neck too is hardly tenable now. Dr. Sunit Chander Ray, however, believed that "in spite of historical materials in the early portions of his work, Kalhana's splendour of imagination, depth and range of thought and above all the power of centralizing many talents to a single purpose had given his Rajtarangini a literary immortality". Source: The Rich Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir Studies in Art, Architecture, History and Culture of the Region By Prof. Somnath Wakhlu From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:16:29 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:16:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: <564b2fca0907142308gf18baedp4fa044345baef82b@mail.gmail.com> References: <564b2fca0907142308gf18baedp4fa044345baef82b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35f96d470907142346o5042620are96ce6fc72c59006@mail.gmail.com> An Interesting Research by Itty Abraham published on The Fishpond Sex in the Neo-liberal City: On Savita Bhabhi http://thefishpond.in/itty/2009/on-savita-bhabhi/ Or are we closer to Ashok, driven by the pressures of an unrelenting work schedule, who never gets a chance to enjoy the fruits of the new urban paradise that his labors have helped create? Doomed to invisibility if he ever gets off the treadmill, his rewards are a domestic space surrounded by the material signs of achievement — TVs, fridges, microwaves, sofas. The lack of time he has to enjoy these pleasure goods is one pathetic symptom of his condition: an even more perverse situation is that these objects become voyeuristic witnesses to the infidelities taking place at home, those sexual transgressions and pleasures which he cannot be privy to. His is a world of production without consumption, singularly lacking in pleasure, made worse by the infidelities of his wife. Ashok is further made an object of ridicule by Savita’s double entendres and unspoken comments (to which readers are privy), which make him — pathetic, humiliated, ignorant, silent, absent — a peculiar, altogether spectral, symbol of our times. Necessary but not sufficient Ashok is the other side of this neo-liberal dream space. http://thefishpond.in/itty/2009/on-savita-bhabhi/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 15 14:26:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:56:45 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani finds oil firms' data handy in creating ID cards- 145 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907150156w517a637cxab8e21191ac1a901@mail.gmail.com> Dear All If this news report is correct, then, I think, we are witnessing, the great Indian ingenuity at work. Sample this- 'Nilekani, who is yet to officially take over, met Petroleum Minister Murli Deora today and saw synergy in the huge data base available with the public sector oil companies that service 110 million LPG customers and have vast information on BPL families buying PDS kerosene.' And this- 'The authority may also use the data of PAN card applicants available with the Income Tax Department for the initial build-up of a resource base.' --------- I think one can now safely deduce, if the news report is correct, that surely not a single illegal immigrant in India do not have any access to either a PAN card or LPG connection and therefore how marvelous it would be to just copy and paste this data onto a national database. In this manner, are we asked to believe that, the efficiency of such an exercise will increase tremendously? Is this the big idea to distribute 1.5 lakh crores swiftly and with a definite sense of purpose? Regards Taha We all know how reliable and authentic these databases are http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Nilekani-finds-oil-firms-data-handy-in-creating-ID-cards/articleshow/4777077.cms Nilekani finds oil firms' data handy in creating ID cards 14 Jul 2009, 1933 hrs IST, PTI NEW DELHI: Infosys co-founder Nandan Nilekani-headed Unique Identification Authority will utilise the existing data available with government Nandan Nilekani departments such as Income Tax and state fuel retailers for rolling out the unique identification cards for the country's citizens. Nilekani, who is yet to officially take over, met Petroleum Minister Murli Deora today and saw synergy in the huge data base available with the public sector oil companies that service 110 million LPG customers and have vast information on BPL families buying PDS kerosene. "We will cooperative very closely with the Petroleum Ministry," he told reporters after the one-hour long meeting. Deora said the huge database of petroleum products such as LPG customers with oil marketing companies will be useful in covering a large part of the population. Nilekani said the oil sector data of LPG consumers is a huge attraction and resouce towards accomplishing the task in his hand. The authority may also use the data of PAN card applicants available with the Income Tax Department for the initial build-up of a resource base. Nilekani said the unique identification number to each individual resident will take sometime. He refused to fix a timeframe for the roll out. "I have yet to takeover please give me some time." Asked if the unique IDs could also be in future used to sell subsidised domestic LPG and kerosene, he said the concept would have to be deliberated at length. "This is just a preliminary meeting." Synchronisation of data, standardization of biometric information and the technology would go a long way to service the purpose of the authority and oil sector. The identification of the customers will help in better targeting the subsidised products. Deora said the Petroleum Ministry has decided to soon launch a pilot project in Pune, Bangalore and Hyderabad and a few village for issuing smart cards to consumers of PDS kerosene and domestic LPG. The experience of the pilot project would be shared with the authority. The ministry would also utilize the expertise of the personnel with the authority in further expansion of the programme. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 15 14:45:17 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:15:17 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On Nandan Nilekani and democracy. Message-ID: <65be9bf40907150215t7fad4daay6c9c9fe7229f8b4f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Zainab, (Dear All) This pertains to a post which you made on the reader-list sometime ago. In this particular post, the following bit was mentioned- 'Thom Friedman, the interviewer, asked Nilekani what is the difference between India and China. Nilekani replied saying that China does not have the problem of democracy which India has.' https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/test1/2006-December/008448.html If true, then I'd like to consider this as an extremely significant statement, coming from a person, who now holds a cabinet level berth and is responsible to give us all tokens of national membership. It would be interesting to know more about his views on democracy, open society and other impediments. However one is not sure about these things till one can attribute it to a source. My request to you therefore is, could you please provide us with a link or a source which links what is being claimed to Nandan Nilekani so that we can then study the interview in greater detail. Warm regards Taha From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 14:48:47 2009 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:48:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Nandan Nilekani and democracy. In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907150215t7fad4daay6c9c9fe7229f8b4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907150215t7fad4daay6c9c9fe7229f8b4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha, I came to know about Nilekani's remarks from a friend. This friend mentioned to me that Nilekani made this remark on a television talk show on STAR. The talk show would have been held in 2006 sometime because this was around the time when I wrote this post. Regards, Zainab On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Zainab, (Dear All) > > This pertains to a post which you made on the reader-list sometime > ago. In this particular post, the following bit was mentioned- > > 'Thom Friedman, the interviewer, asked Nilekani what is the difference > between India and China. Nilekani replied saying that China does not > have the problem of democracy which India has.' > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/test1/2006-December/008448.html > > If true, then I'd like to consider this as an extremely significant > statement, coming from a person, who now holds a cabinet level berth > and is responsible to give us all tokens of national membership. It > would be interesting to know more about his views on democracy, open > society and other impediments. > > However one is not sure about these things till one can attribute it > to a source. My request to you therefore is, could you please provide > us with a link or a source which links what is being claimed to Nandan > Nilekani so that we can then study the interview in greater detail. > > Warm regards > > Taha > -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Jul 15 15:22:17 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:22:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Why Civil WAR Message-ID: <942337.66929.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> P Chidambaram said that defence advisor shall look into Naxal threat, that the country had neglected the threat to it by the extremist left forces. One wonders if this shall be of any help, given that he is already aware of the recruitments. At any cost it is shameful for a heavily loaded huge army to wage war on people whose grievances led them to such a path, and skilled locals using guerrila tactics. Thus a place is claimed, and middle class seperated from ground realities by superficial grounds, if such brutalities and legalisations continue, wont pro naxals be forced to join the naxals, shall then the same weapons of the army and a seggregated mass handle a civil war, just for erradication of courage and dissatisfaction, are we mute spectators gonna be engaged in a civil war?  While government forces in autocracy and silents intellectual to seegregate masses and sentiments against it( severe torture can only lead them to this unknown enemy), where is this millitilarisation heading,a couple of attacks, and counter blasts? Obviously the smaller army shall be defeatd, but is it befitting India's trends? Shall irritating and fueling sentiments help? The most pleasing answer was 'they had grown so amicable to pleasing applauds and offerings found it so hard to say sorry and admit stupidity!'  Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 16:22:53 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:22:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Savita bhabhi: why did Indian govt. ban her? In-Reply-To: <35f96d470907142346o5042620are96ce6fc72c59006@mail.gmail.com> References: <564b2fca0907142308gf18baedp4fa044345baef82b@mail.gmail.com> <35f96d470907142346o5042620are96ce6fc72c59006@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907150352y7491231cne18042d061eae09d@mail.gmail.com> Sukanya, Your argument here doesnt anything new but boils down to this sentiment "take it or leave it". If the creators of Savita, instead of advertising his site through all the major media organisations would have stuck to traditional mode of reaching out to their readers, like how roadside vendors do, then it would have made more sense. The salesman in a train plying between Kanpur and Mughalsarai after selling 20 porn books worth Rs 10 get Re 1 as commission for every book that he sells. Mind you, a woman selling pornography is yet to happen in India. That would be the first day of sexual revolution. I am not a part of the moral policing brigade. Those were my personal views and I am still opposed to this commodification of women or men as defined sex objects at the cost of artistic expression. Moreover, it is the marginalised existence of pornography or pornographic literature which makes it more accessible to those who want to relieve themselves from repression. On second thoughts, if i am permitted to imagine this way of advertising pornography, with the kind of hypocrisy that exists in India about expressing our own sexual desires, imaginary large sex shops showing Savita as some kind of demi god where one can "enjoy" the feeling of being seduced by their own imagination will have less number of people crowding about the space. The reason: everybody wants to be a voyeur, to stay huddled in a corner without being noticed and imagine their fantasies. So Pornography is a sign of healthy society then Savita is the poster girl for the Sexual revolution in India right? The greatest impediment against it will be people's own hypocrisy. And it is not as if by allowing or not allowing a porn site to function in the internet by the government, the goal of the sexual revolution be achieved. I still can see mothers, aunties getting scandalised when the condom campaign by NACO was aired on TV channels. There are people arguing in this list for Baba Ramdev and how homosexuality can be cured (which is ridiculous). -Anupam On 7/15/09, Anivar Aravind wrote: > An Interesting Research by Itty Abraham published on The Fishpond > > Sex in the Neo-liberal City: On Savita Bhabhi > http://thefishpond.in/itty/2009/on-savita-bhabhi/ > > > Or are we closer to Ashok, driven by the pressures of an unrelenting > work schedule, who never gets a chance to enjoy the fruits of the new > urban paradise that his labors have helped create? Doomed to > invisibility if he ever gets off the treadmill, his rewards are a > domestic space surrounded by the material signs of achievement — TVs, > fridges, microwaves, sofas. The lack of time he has to enjoy these > pleasure goods is one pathetic symptom of his condition: an even more > perverse situation is that these objects become voyeuristic witnesses > to the infidelities taking place at home, those sexual transgressions > and pleasures which he cannot be privy to. His is a world of > production without consumption, singularly lacking in pleasure, made > worse by the infidelities of his wife. Ashok is further made an object > of ridicule by Savita’s double entendres and unspoken comments (to > which readers are privy), which make him — pathetic, humiliated, > ignorant, silent, absent — a peculiar, altogether spectral, symbol of > our times. Necessary but not sufficient Ashok is the other side of > this neo-liberal dream space. > > > http://thefishpond.in/itty/2009/on-savita-bhabhi/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From patrice at xs4all.nl Wed Jul 15 17:17:37 2009 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:47:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] On Nandan Nilekani and democracy. Message-ID: <56276.94.212.51.22.1247658457.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Dear Zainab, Taha and others, Nandan Nilekani's views on democracy, once ferreted out will probably come as no surprise, since they're likely to reflect the 'regent class' trademark despise of the same. As a fore-taste I can always offer Alain Minc (a kind of French NN) (in)famous quote about this subject: "Democracy is not the Natural state of society. But the market is." Cheers from Groningen, patrizio and Diiiinooos! "Il n'y a de souverain que le peuple" > Dear Taha, > I came to know about Nilekani's remarks from a friend. This friend > mentioned > to me that Nilekani made this remark on a television talk show on STAR. > The > talk show would have been held in 2006 sometime because this was around > the > time when I wrote this post. > > Regards, > > Zainab > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > >> Dear Zainab, (Dear All) >> >> This pertains to a post which you made on the reader-list sometime >> ago. In this particular post, the following bit was mentioned- >> >> 'Thom Friedman, the interviewer, asked Nilekani what is the difference >> between India and China. Nilekani replied saying that China does not >> have the problem of democracy which India has.' >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/test1/2006-December/008448.html >> >> If true, then I'd like to consider this as an extremely significant >> statement, coming from a person, who now holds a cabinet level berth >> and is responsible to give us all tokens of national membership. It >> would be interesting to know more about his views on democracy, open >> society and other impediments. >> >> However one is not sure about these things till one can attribute it >> to a source. My request to you therefore is, could you please provide >> us with a link or a source which links what is being claimed to Nandan >> Nilekani so that we can then study the interview in greater detail. >> >> Warm regards >> >> Taha >> > > > > -- > Zainab Bawa > Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher > > Gaining Ground ... > http://zainab.freecrow.org > > http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 17:27:09 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:27:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Capitol Hill Meet On Kashmir Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907150457w7a5f313fk740eee465cb8749@mail.gmail.com> Date : 23rd July .,2009 Who is sponsoring Gautham Navlakha's trip to USA ? Rgds Pawan Durani "Apun Bolega To Bologe Ki Bolta Hai" From navayana at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 17:35:18 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:35:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Navayana-Sarai lecture, 27 July 2009: Ajay Navaria and Laura Brueck Message-ID: Navayana and Sarai invite you to the fourth in the series of Navayana-Sarai lectures on Monday, 27 July 2009, 3.30 p.m. at Seminar Room, CSDS Hindi writer Ajay Navaria will read selections from his short fiction, and Laura Brueck will speak on “The Alienation of Modernity in Ajay Navaria’s Fiction”. Ajay Navaria is the author of a collection of short stories (*Patkatha aur anya Kahaniyan*, 2006) and the novel (*Udhar ke Log*, 2008). Navaria has been involved with the premier literary journal Hans as a guest editor for special issues. He was bestowed with the Sahitiyik Kriti Award in 2008 by the Hindi Academy, Delhi. Navaria teaches at Jamia Milia Islamia University, Delhi. Laura Brueck is Assistant Professor in Hindi at the Department of Asian Languages and Civilizations at the University of Colorado in Boulder. Her research focuses on contemporary Hindi Dalit literature. Her 2006 PhD dissertation was titled “Rethinking Resistance: Constructing a Hindi Dalit Literary Identity in Contemporary India”. www.navayana.org www.sarai.net Sarai-CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, New Delhi 110054 For further details, contact: S. Anand www.navayana.org Navayana Publishing 120, Ground Floor Shahpur Jat New Delhi 110049 Landline: +91-11-26494795 Mobile: +91-9971433117 From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 17:36:24 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:36:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Capitol Hill Meet On Kashmir In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907150457w7a5f313fk740eee465cb8749@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907150457w7a5f313fk740eee465cb8749@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690907150506h7f68221aga5672b5d1e22f3be@mail.gmail.com> ... Infact not Just Gautam but Tapan Bose too.. On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Date : 23rd July .,2009 > > Who is sponsoring Gautham Navlakha's trip to USA ? > > Rgds > > Pawan Durani > > "Apun Bolega To Bologe Ki Bolta Hai" > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 15 20:32:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:02:09 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Bartronics. Message-ID: <65be9bf40907150802s245bbd61g1f25c335c19f34a@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Below are some excerpts from a profile of Bartronics prepared by SKP securities in 2006. I realize that this information is dated however, these excerpts may give us an idea about a view which would like us to believe that UIDAI is good for business. One may also keep in mind how issues like panic and (in)security and its morphing with the discourse of illegality, citizenship and social obligation impacts business. Notice how the language used here is so obviously completely devoid of any sense of 'social panic', which appears to be very much present in almost all the arguments which articulates the -need- to have products like smart card or tags. The business of panic and (in)security seems to be growing at a phenomenal rate these days. That Bartronics has a tie up with US and Israeli companies does not comes as a surprise, and as SKP literature, below suggests, 'Most of these associations are more than five years old and as a result, Bartronics enjoys the best pricing advantage in hardware, in India.' Is the time now not ripe for people of these countries to maybe come together to perhaps question the logic of 'smart' solutions? Warm regards Taha http://www.valuenotes.com/skp/skp_Bartronics_30Oct06.pdf Industry Overview Automatic Identification and Data Capture (AIDC) is the industry term used to describe the identification, and/or direct collection of data into a microprocessor controlled device such as a computer system or a programmable logic controller (PLC), without the use of a keyboard. The technology supports two fundamental requirements viz. eliminating errors associated with identification and/or data collection and accelerating the throughput process. The key application of the technologies is in tracking and traceability of products/articles, product and item identification and sortation, information and data processing, security and access control and inventory management. The technology is designed to bridge the gap between entities in the real world and computer databases that describe them. AIDC endows a computer system with a set of eyes that can uniquely identify any object that is appropriately tagged. Computer algorithms designed to improve efficiency can then work with direct and immediate knowledge of the environment, rather than process statistical information collected by hand at a prior date. The AIDC technology covers six distinct groups of technologies and services. They are: Card Technologies, Data Communications Technologies, Bar Code Technologies, Radio Frequency Identification Technologies, Emerging Technologies, and the Support and Supplies which serve the industry. The market has been growing at an estimated CAGR of over 50% over the past few years and is poised to grow rapidly due to retail and manufacturing growth in the country. The AIDC potential is expected to develop strongly in the emerging markets. No Competition Currently, Bartronics does not face any organised competition in India. However, there are a number of smaller players, primarily traders of hardware equipment, who import some of the barcoding equipment and sell it to smaller companies. Wipro and TCS are large, software companies, whose business focus is to provide enterprise-wide software solutions and do not intend to enter the niche area in which Bartronics operates. Therefore we can say that the company has almost monopoly position in the market Tie ups The Company has long-standing tie-ups with some of the leading hardware manufacturers in this industry. The Company has tie-ups with M/s Intermec Corporation and PSC Scanning, both US based companies, for scanning equipment, and exclusive tie-ups with both, M/s Synel Industries, Israel, for security and biometrics products, M/s ID Micro, USA, for RFID hardware, ASK, Wavex Technologies, Marson Technology Co. Ltd. Muhlbauer and NBS Technologies. It also represents Escorts Memory Systems, USA. Most of these associations are more than five years old and as a result, Bartronics enjoys the best pricing advantage in hardware, in India.The future growth of the company would come from RFID solutions and POS line of products in the immediate and medium term. In the medium/long term, the growth would be fuelled by RFID, POS and Smartcards. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:04:37 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:04:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt of India is offering Scholarship to Students with Disabilities... Message-ID: FundACause Govt of India is offering 500 scholarships to persons with disabilities for pursuing technical & professional courses. http://bit.ly/SiYQu From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:33:29 2009 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:33:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Nandan Nilekani and democracy. In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40907150215t7fad4daay6c9c9fe7229f8b4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha, I think it is important to clarify the context in which Nilekani perhaps made this remark - I am only speculating here. The remark was made in 2006 when the urban reforms phase was at its peak. Around that time, some of the major challenges to implementing urban reforms was getting field level bureaucrats and lower level politicians to comply with the reforms ideology. Often, policy is not implemented in exactly the same letter and spirit as it is conceived. Moreover, the politics of what the likes of Nilekani call "vote banks" posed nightmares not only for implementing reforms, but also for creating land markets that are free of all kinds of claims and encumberances. This was also the time when Outlook magazine published articles of Infosys being implicated in getting lands at cheap rates on the peripheries of Bangalore city. Also, Congress Ministers had shares in Infosys. A lot of these things posed problems for Infosys. I am not sure what Nilekani's position is now. I have not read his book and so, I have no idea what position he is speaking from now. Regards, Zainab On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Zainab Bawa wrote: > Dear Taha, > I came to know about Nilekani's remarks from a friend. This friend > mentioned to me that Nilekani made this remark on a television talk show on > STAR. The talk show would have been held in 2006 sometime because this was > around the time when I wrote this post. > > Regards, > > Zainab > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > > wrote: > >> Dear Zainab, (Dear All) >> >> This pertains to a post which you made on the reader-list sometime >> ago. In this particular post, the following bit was mentioned- >> >> 'Thom Friedman, the interviewer, asked Nilekani what is the difference >> between India and China. Nilekani replied saying that China does not >> have the problem of democracy which India has.' >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/test1/2006-December/008448.html >> >> If true, then I'd like to consider this as an extremely significant >> statement, coming from a person, who now holds a cabinet level berth >> and is responsible to give us all tokens of national membership. It >> would be interesting to know more about his views on democracy, open >> society and other impediments. >> >> However one is not sure about these things till one can attribute it >> to a source. My request to you therefore is, could you please provide >> us with a link or a source which links what is being claimed to Nandan >> Nilekani so that we can then study the interview in greater detail. >> >> Warm regards >> >> Taha >> > > > > -- > Zainab Bawa > Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher > > Gaining Ground ... > http://zainab.freecrow.org > > > http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics > -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From nilankur at cultureunplugged.com Thu Jul 16 01:27:26 2009 From: nilankur at cultureunplugged.com (Nilankur) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:27:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Humanity Explored Festival Launched Message-ID: <8E46B1B3-8BFF-42A1-B966-5BD31138BC4E@cultureunplugged.com> This festival intends to promote and facilitate the effort to clarify our collective perception & action which defines us, the humanity, and our future. We, the people, are facing the shift in our culture - it is time to watch, explore, reflect and take action. We thank you for sponsoring this effort and taking action by visiting this festival. Lets contemplate 'humanness' - the prime feature of being human. Lets listen and celebrate our collective voice through film-makers from around the globe. http://www.cultureunplugged.com/festival/openingFilm.php nilankur 'frame voice. find vigor' http://www.cultureunplugged.com/filmedia/truthSeekers.php From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 16 04:10:27 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:10:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Rape of Taraneh: Prison Abuse of Iran's Protesters (from Huffington Post) Message-ID: <2abcda93c7a55caa7dfcc3cbdb597559@sarai.net> Dear All, Here is a sad and tragic report on conditions in Iranian prisons today by Shirin Sadeghi. Those following the situation in Iran will find this of interest. I hope it adds to our understanding of the nature of the regime that continues to smother the will of the people of Iran. It may be asked, by some, how much credence we can give to a report on Iran that appears in an 'American' platform like Huffington Post. My answer to such a query is simple. If we are prepared to accept the veracity of, and condemn (as many of us do) the instances of rape and abuse committed by US military personnel and others that took place in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, which also began to appear (and have consistently appeared) in platforms like Huffington Post, then we have equal reason to condemn what is happening in Iran when it is highlighted by the same fora. You cannot condemn the US forces in Iraq for doing something in Iraq, and then not condemn elements within the Iranian state apparatus for doing the same thing in (neighbouring) Iran. regards, Shuddha --------------------------------------------------------------- The Rape of Taraneh: Prison Abuse of Iran's Protesters Shirin Sadeghi (Middle East Consultant and former Journalist for the BBC and Al Jazeera) Posted: July 15, 2009 09:25 AM on Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sadeghi/the-rape-of-taraneh-priso_b_233063.html The names and stories of the Iranians who have been brutalized or killed in the aftermath of the post-election protests are gradually seeping into a memorial vault of the faces of suffering and endurance in the name of sociopolitical reform. One by one, the faces of protest are providing an essential yearbook of the individuals who comprise the protest masses, and a catalogue of the Iranian government's treatment of political activists. On Friday July 19, a large group of mourners gathered at the Ghoba mosque in Tehran to await a speech about the martyrs of the post-election protests by presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi. According to one Iranian blog, 28-year-old Taraneh Mousavi was one of a group of people that was arrested by plainclothesed security forces for attending the gathering. Taraneh, whose first name is Persian for "song", disappeared into arrest. Weeks later, according to the blog, her mother received an anonymous call from a government agent saying that her daughter has been hospitalized in Imam Khomeini Hospital in the city of Karaj, just north of Tehran -- hospitalized for "rupturing of her womb and anus in... an unfortunate accident". When Taraneh's family went to the hospital to find her, they were told she was not there. According to another Iranian blog which claims to have original information about Taraneh from her family, Iranian security forces contacted Taraneh's family after the hospital visit warning them not to publicize Taraneh's story and not to associate her disappearance with arrests made at post-election protests, claiming instead that she had tried to harm herself because of feeling guilty for having pre-marital sex. Witnesses have come forward to the various Internet sites who are covering Taraneh's story, stating that she was mentally and physically abused in Tehran's notorious Evin prison and also that a person who matches her physical description and injuries had been treated at the Imam Khomeini Hospital, was unconscious when witnessed and was later transferred out of the hospital while still unconscious. Taraneh's is not the first allegation of brutal raping of a post-election protester -- according to the UK Guardian, an 18 year old boy in Shiraz was repeatedly gang raped by prison officials while in detention after being arrested for participating in the protests on June 15. That boy's father won't let him back in the family home. Despite its agitations for reform, Iranian society remains traditional, according to Iranian-British blogger Potkin Azarmehr, and it's the stigma of rape that is being used as a weapon against the protesters. "By killing protesters, the government makes martyrs of them, but by raping them and allowing them to live, it makes them shunned in society," Azarmehr said. Not that the stigma of rape is exclusive to Iran and other more traditional societies. A friend of Azarmehr's who is presently in Iran told him that he's "sick of hearing that people like Taraneh are better off dead" from friends abroad, just because they "can't handle the fact that she's been raped." The psychology of threatening protesters and political activists is not a new science. The strategies and ultimate goals are the same for any kind of torture: to humiliate, disembody (through denying the victim authority over his/her own physical self), extract confessions (whether true or false) and ultimately permanently terrorize the victims to prevent further 'disturbances'. The last part often fails spectacularly, as victims tend to feel even more antagonism toward the perpetrators, and even more of a 'do or die' mentality about agitating for change at any cost. Prison abuse and torture is also about marking these victims as defiled human beings -- it's like a scarlet letter of social isolation against them, to deny them the community support and strength which they need to move past those memories and not be defined by them. This is where others can step in and change the very attitudes toward abuse which so many institutions count on when they commit these crimes. The story of Taraneh's condition is still unfolding and there are no certain confirmations of its details beyond the reports of bloggers who are obliged to remain anonymous for safety reasons -- but the idea that political prisoners are being mistreated in this way is not new to Iran and is a significant element of a program of terror which has sustained the current system in Iran. Taraneh's story must be told and it must be heard. Perhaps her life can still be saved. From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 16 04:11:03 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:11:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Rape of Taraneh: Prison Abuse of Iran's Protesters (from Huffington Post) Message-ID: <83f58689dd7ce1dd3767933a62ef456e@sarai.net> Dear All, Here is a sad and tragic report on conditions in Iranian prisons today by Shirin Sadeghi. Those following the situation in Iran will find this of interest. I hope it adds to our understanding of the nature of the regime that continues to smother the will of the people of Iran. It may be asked, by some, as to how much credence we can give to a report on Iran that appears in an 'American' platform like Huffington Post. My answer to such a query is simple. If we are prepared to accept the veracity of, and condemn (as many of us do) the instances of rape and abuse committed by US military personnel and others that took place in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, which also began to appear (and have consistently appeared) in platforms like Huffington Post, then we have equal reason to condemn what is happening in Iran when it is highlighted by the same fora. You cannot condemn the US forces in Iraq for doing something in Iraq, and then not condemn elements within the Iranian state apparatus for doing the same thing in (neighbouring) Iran. regards, Shuddha --------------------------------------------------------------- The Rape of Taraneh: Prison Abuse of Iran's Protesters Shirin Sadeghi (Middle East Consultant and former Journalist for the BBC and Al Jazeera) Posted: July 15, 2009 09:25 AM on Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sadeghi/the-rape-of-taraneh-priso_b_233063.html The names and stories of the Iranians who have been brutalized or killed in the aftermath of the post-election protests are gradually seeping into a memorial vault of the faces of suffering and endurance in the name of sociopolitical reform. One by one, the faces of protest are providing an essential yearbook of the individuals who comprise the protest masses, and a catalogue of the Iranian government's treatment of political activists. On Friday July 19, a large group of mourners gathered at the Ghoba mosque in Tehran to await a speech about the martyrs of the post-election protests by presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi. According to one Iranian blog, 28-year-old Taraneh Mousavi was one of a group of people that was arrested by plainclothesed security forces for attending the gathering. Taraneh, whose first name is Persian for "song", disappeared into arrest. Weeks later, according to the blog, her mother received an anonymous call from a government agent saying that her daughter has been hospitalized in Imam Khomeini Hospital in the city of Karaj, just north of Tehran -- hospitalized for "rupturing of her womb and anus in... an unfortunate accident". When Taraneh's family went to the hospital to find her, they were told she was not there. According to another Iranian blog which claims to have original information about Taraneh from her family, Iranian security forces contacted Taraneh's family after the hospital visit warning them not to publicize Taraneh's story and not to associate her disappearance with arrests made at post-election protests, claiming instead that she had tried to harm herself because of feeling guilty for having pre-marital sex. Witnesses have come forward to the various Internet sites who are covering Taraneh's story, stating that she was mentally and physically abused in Tehran's notorious Evin prison and also that a person who matches her physical description and injuries had been treated at the Imam Khomeini Hospital, was unconscious when witnessed and was later transferred out of the hospital while still unconscious. Taraneh's is not the first allegation of brutal raping of a post-election protester -- according to the UK Guardian, an 18 year old boy in Shiraz was repeatedly gang raped by prison officials while in detention after being arrested for participating in the protests on June 15. That boy's father won't let him back in the family home. Despite its agitations for reform, Iranian society remains traditional, according to Iranian-British blogger Potkin Azarmehr, and it's the stigma of rape that is being used as a weapon against the protesters. "By killing protesters, the government makes martyrs of them, but by raping them and allowing them to live, it makes them shunned in society," Azarmehr said. Not that the stigma of rape is exclusive to Iran and other more traditional societies. A friend of Azarmehr's who is presently in Iran told him that he's "sick of hearing that people like Taraneh are better off dead" from friends abroad, just because they "can't handle the fact that she's been raped." The psychology of threatening protesters and political activists is not a new science. The strategies and ultimate goals are the same for any kind of torture: to humiliate, disembody (through denying the victim authority over his/her own physical self), extract confessions (whether true or false) and ultimately permanently terrorize the victims to prevent further 'disturbances'. The last part often fails spectacularly, as victims tend to feel even more antagonism toward the perpetrators, and even more of a 'do or die' mentality about agitating for change at any cost. Prison abuse and torture is also about marking these victims as defiled human beings -- it's like a scarlet letter of social isolation against them, to deny them the community support and strength which they need to move past those memories and not be defined by them. This is where others can step in and change the very attitudes toward abuse which so many institutions count on when they commit these crimes. The story of Taraneh's condition is still unfolding and there are no certain confirmations of its details beyond the reports of bloggers who are obliged to remain anonymous for safety reasons -- but the idea that political prisoners are being mistreated in this way is not new to Iran and is a significant element of a program of terror which has sustained the current system in Iran. Taraneh's story must be told and it must be heard. Perhaps her life can still be saved. From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 16 04:27:07 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:27:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Paris Burning? Message-ID: <9c11c8a6d329af84a4c13e826fdde794@sarai.net> Meanwhile in Sarkozia, Our venerable Sardarzy is cozying up to the buffoon on the throne of Paris, also known as Sarkozy. While the Sarkozy-Sardarzy gambit is rehearsed, le soldat's de l'Hindoustan are marchant avec le Soldat's le Belle ReBublique. Hopla. And Paris burns, again. Citoyens, Is another French Revolution necessary? Salut Shuddha OVER 300 CARS TORCHED Violence on France's National Day http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,636029,00.html France's national holiday, Bastille Day, has been overshadowed by a night of rioting in which more than 300 cars were torched on the streets of Paris and other cities. Rigorous attempts by the French government to clamp down on Bastille Day rioting were not enough to prevent at least 317 cars being torched in major French cities in the early hours of July 14. Despite a deployment of 10,000 police officers, the number of cars set alight represents a rise of almost seven percent from the previous year. Youths threw home-made explosives and fireworks to set alight bins and cars, before targeting police officers, 13 of whom were wounded in the riots. A total of 240 arrests were made -- almost double the number recorded in 2008. It had been hoped that new legislation to allow harsher punishments would deter rioters this year. Now perpetrators can face up to three years in prison and fines of up to €45,000 for their involvement in the arson attacks. Violence on the eve of Bastille Day has become a tradition in France and an outlet for disaffected young men to express their anger at French unemployment rates and a failed integration policy for ethnic minorities. Elsewhere in Paris, French troops were preparing for the traditional July 14 military parade down the Champs-Élysées. This year, French President Nicolas Sarkozy will welcome Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh as his guest of honor and Indian soldiers will participate alongside their French counterparts in the parade. The Bastille Day riots follow three nights of anarchy on the streets of Firminy near Lyon, as youths protested amid reports of a 21-year-old Algerian man dying in police custody on Wednesday July 8. Mohamed Benmouna, who had been arrested on charges of extortion, was reported to have commited suicide, but his family has filed a lawsuit to determine the cause of death. Their pleas for a halt to the violent protests were ignored as local youths set ablaze cars and local shops in clashes with riot police. More protestors took to the streets of Paris on July 13, claiming police brutality against activist film director Joachim Gatti who lost his right eye on July 8 -- allegedly having been shot by a police flash-ball gun. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 16 04:35:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:05:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Breaking the Silence Message-ID: <65be9bf40907151605o1f9a486ob6e4ef36bcd82fad@mail.gmail.com> Dear All With respect to Israel and Palestine. One often hears what the people under occupation has to say and what the people who occupy has to say but seldom does one hear what people, who manage this 'occupation', has to say. Perhaps one saw a bit of that perspective via popular culture in Spielberg's Munich or in Dance with Bashir. Breaking the Silence is an attempt to document the testimonies of Israeli soldiers as they talk about Occupied Territories. You may visit the site here- http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp The testimony below comes under the category called- Routine. XXX Taha Rank: Staff Sergeant Unit: 401 Armor unit Description: What does “crazy mess in the territories” mean? Crazy mess…I was in a combat division in which – how to say it in Hebrew? - "there was neither law, nor judge" in this division. Everybody does whatever he wants. And I, specifically, did whatever I wanted. And ‘to do what you like in Rammalla’ means, for example, that you have the possibility to drive on the road… you drive on the road and there are cars on the sides and you intentionally drive over the car. But I am not talking about 1 or 2 tanks. I am talking about a lot of tanks. I had a lot of commanding officers and many of them were like this. And in Rafiach , when I used to come there, I would just wake up and shoot 2000 cell. What is 2000cell? 2000 cell are 2000 machine-gun bullets. Out there they used to shoot at us a lot. Really: every day. Grenades, missiles, everything. So there was this order that every once in a while all weapons have to shoot towards a wall, so it doesn’t hit the houses or anything else. But the freedom that we’ve had…we fired a lot. And 2000 bullets, automatic fire, directed at the whole city, at houses and at doors, was something that everybody did, not just me. I do not know why I did it. What were you thinking when you did it? I do not know. I was with the gun. I did not think. In the army I never thought. And I used to come home and tell about it to my friends, which means I was not ashamed of it. Nothing. I did what I was told to do. And besides, everybody did it. That was the custom - officers and such, everybody knew. It never happened that they had told me to shoot here or there… and I would stop to think ‘what if’… First I took the shot; later, if I thought at all, it would always be too late. I never thought while I was doing that. From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 16 06:24:30 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:24:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Another Assasination in Russia Message-ID: <0c42f67cea13f797f8ebac4514994e9a@sarai.net> Dear All, And now another sad death in Putin's Russia. For the consideration of all those who still root for the 'anti-imperialist' street cred of this gaseous oligarch. best, Shuddha ------------------------ Natalia Estemirova Killing The Latest In Attacks On Russian Activists The Huffington Post First Posted: 07-15-09 04:04 PM http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/15/natalia-estemirova-killin_n_234021.html Award-winning Russian rights activist Natalya Estemirova has been found dead hours after being kidnapped in Chechnya, reports Human Rights Watch. Estemirova's body was found on a roadside near the Chechan border with two bullet wounds to her head, according to the local Interior Ministry spokeswoman. A report was released on the same day as Estemirova's killing, which calls for Russian officials, including Prime Minister Putin, to be held accountable for crimes while they have been in office. Estemirova's death is the latest in an increasing list of reporters, lawyers and activits who have been killed in Russia, according to Amnesty International. In a report released in May of this year, Amnesty accuses President Medvedev of failing to live up to the human rights promises he made before being elected. Amnesty says: "People continue to be 'forcibly disappeared' or abducted, arbitrarily detained, tortured or even killed while in detention. " Estemirova had worked with investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot dead in her Moscow apartment building in 2006, and her lawyer Stanislav Markelov. Markelov was killed in Moscow in January, along with opposition newspaper reporter Anastasia Baburova. The Committee to Protect Journalists reports that in 2008, two journalists were killed in Russia. Magomed Yevloyev was shot and killed while in police custody, and Telman Alishayev was shot while driving home from a local mosque. The organization has recently called for an investigation into the death of newspaper editor Vyacheslav Yaroshenko who died from a head wound. Story continues below In its annual report on Russia, Reporters Without Borders noted that "much pressure" was exerted upon independent media and journalists, including police arrests and beatings. Here is a round-up of the most recent high-profile killings: Vyacheslav Yaroshenko, 63 The editor of Korruptsiya i Prestupnost (Corruption and Crime) died on June 29, 2009 as a result of severe head injuries sustained in an attack from a mystery assailant in late April. Yaroshenko was unconscious found at the entrance to his apartment building, but local police said they did not consider any criminal element involved in his injuries and have not investigated the April incident. Magomed Yevloyev, 37 Kremlin critic and journalist Yevloyev was shot dead while in police custody on August 31, 2008. Yevloyev founded and ran ingushetiya.ru, a website which provided local news and information. The website was a strong opponent of Murat Zyazikov, Ingushetia's pro-Kremlin president. He was arrested shortly after arriving in Ingushetia from Moscow. Police reported that after he was arrested, the journalist attempted to wrestle a gun from a policeman when the gun went off, striking Yevloyev in the temple. Telman Alishayev Alishayev, host of popular religious program 'Peace to Your Home', was shot by two masked assassins while sitting in traffic on his way home from the local mosque on September 2, 2008. Alishayev was a reporter for the Islamic had more recently lobbied for education reform and gender separation in schools. No one has been convicted for his death. Anna Politkovskaya, 48 Investigative journalist and rights activist Politkovskaya was shot and killed in her apartment building in Moscow on October 7, 2006. Politkovskays was perhaps best known for her opposition to the Chechen conflict and criticism of Vladimir Putin. A judge recently overturned the acquittal of three men charged with her death, one former police officer and two Chechens, who now face a retrial. She had written a number of award-winning books about Chechnya and Putin's leadership, and had written articles exposing rights abuses by the Russian army in Chechnya. Stanislav Markelov, 35 Markelov, the human rights lawyer who represented Anna Politkovskaya, was shot dead in Moscow on January 19, 2009. Markelov was one of the presidents of the Russian Rule of Law Institute and had represented Chechens who were allegedly beaten and abused by Russian forces. Anastasia Barburova, 25 Young investigative journalist Barburova was shot and killed when she tried to apprehend the assissin who shot human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov as they walked in Moscow. Barburova, a journalism student at Moscow State University, investigated the neo-Nazi movement in Russia. The assassin has not been found. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 11:00:34 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:00:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Historical Tales - Broad-bosomed Jhelum Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907152230o4e2e1f0ds86bf69cb06639850@mail.gmail.com>  Broad-bosomed Jhelum The serpentine river of the Happy Valley, the Jhelum, is no less historical than the Ganga or the Thames. On its banks were situated the great cities of ancient and medieval Kashmir, Pravarapura, Avantipura, Suyyapura, Padampur, Parihaspura, etc. The 'Vitasta', as it was called, by the Hindus in olden days - Hydaspes by the Greeks and Veth by the Kashmiris - saw the chequered march of the ages of the Valley ever since the vast legendary lake Satisar was drained by sage Kashyapa. It bore triumphant monarchs, Hindu emperors and their queens, Sultans and Moghul emperors, Afghan and Sikh Subedars, Dogra Maharajas, and last, but not least, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru and Mrs. Indira Gandhi along with Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, in right royal processions over its fair bosom. Indifferent to the saga of Kashmir, the Jhelum ravaged the Valley many a time with devastating floods. Yet the calmly flowing, sinuous, majestic river - broad, smooth and navigable virtually the year round and still used as a great highway of Kashmir - has a special appeal to Kashmiris. Visitors readily fall in love with the 'broad-bosomed Jhelum' as did the Grand Moghuls. The historical study of the Jhelum is given by way of the Introductory Essay to these historical tales. "A hundred miles of snow-clad mountain peak; On either side uprear their heads to heaven. And, flecked with light and shade and yellow foam, Broad-bosomed Jhelum wends his stately way." - C.R. Tollemache The Jhelum is the largest and longest river of the sub-Alpine region of Asia's Switzerland. Its source is the spring of Verinag. The small rivers, Vishau, Rambi Ara, Romshi, Dudganga, Sukhanag and Ningal, and the mountain streams, Liddar, Arpal, Tsunti Kul, Sind, Arin, Madamati, Pohru and still others, constitute its tributaries. The Kishanganga river swells its roaring waters at Domel. Flowing down the mountains into the eighty-four miles of the fertile alluvial valley, and, then again over foothills and spurs into Pakistan and onward, it sees and hears nature in all her moods. On its serpentine course, it is swept by many a wind and swelled by rain and snow through the many tributaries. The Jhelum is of as much historical interest as the Ganga, the Thames, the Tiber and the Rhine are to the countries wherein they flow. The Chenab, the Ravi, the Indus, and the Tawi have their source in the Himalayas like the Jhelum, but they haven't that romantic interest attached to them which is the case with the Jhelum. The serpentine river of the Happy Valley, flowing ever so lazily as well as majestically, used to be called the VITASTA, in the hoary days. But where was the Vitasta, when according to a legend, borne out by geological research, Kashmir was a vast lake, namely, Satisar ? Of course, it came into being when Kashyapa, the grandson of god Brahma, drained the valley, named after him, Kashyapamar - now Kashmir. Ashoka, the great Buddhist monarch, cruised up and down the Vitasta to see for himself the Viharas and Buddhist monasteries which dotted the length and breadth of the Valley. Brahmins of Kashmir were mostly Buddhists in the pre-Christian era. Some of them became great Buddhist missionaries. They must have used the Vitasta, nature's highway of the 'Eden of the East', a great deal. Curious barge-like boats, remote ancestors of the Khochoo boats, formed the conveyance that kissed the bosom of the Vitasta everywhere. In these ark-like boats were carried huge stone slabs and blocks needed for the construction of Viharas and monasteries, some of which still exist, though in ruins. The very word Vitasta makes me reminiscent of the glory that was Kashmir. Srinagar, the capital of the State, situated on the banks of the Jhelum, was once known as Pravarapura. It was the city founded by Pravarsena II (79-139 A.D). Parihaspura, situated about 20 km from Srinagar, was the capital of the illustrious conqueror Emperor Lalitaditya, who lived in the eighth century. Parihaspura was also situated on the banks of the Vitasta. The Vitasta bore the weight of the mightly barges that carried the massive blocks of grey limestone which were used in the construction of the stupas, monasteries and temples in Parihaspura, Lalitapura and other cities, for in that age, Buddhism and Hinduism flourished side by side in Kashmir and her vassal states. The stone drainage system of Parihaspura, whose traces can be seen in this 'City of Stones', as the folk call it, led into the all purifying Vitasta. When you visit these grand ruins, where you see the largest of massive blocks used in Kashmir architecture, you notice that the plateau is an isolated one. The Jhelum flows miles beyond. How is it so? Thereby hangs a tale. Suyya, the founderof Suyyapur, now Sopur, the greatest engineer of medieval Kashmir, diverted the course of the Vitasta and made it meet the Sind nalla at the so-called Prayag, otherwise known as Shadipore. Before the time of Avantivarman (855-883 A.D.) - the royal patron of Suyya - the Valley was inundated too often by the Jhelum. His capital, Avantipore, where are to be seen the ruins of his two temples by the roadside, flanked the Vitasta. The site was chosen on a plateau, to escape the depredations of the unruly snake that the Vitasta too often grew into, when the high snows melted or rain fell continuously for weeks together. Suyya had the engineer's vision to the defect of the course of the Vitasta. He had the Vitasta's bed cleared at several points where it constricted between mountains.* Thus was the Vitasta rendered harmless. Canals were dug out from it and Kashmir became prosperous. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * Here, I may take the reader back to hoary antiquity to acquaint him with the interesting genesis of the Wular Lake, the largest fresh water lake (20 by 8 km) of not only Kashmir but of the rest of India. In the reign of Sundersena (2082-2041 B.C.), the capital of the Valley was Samdimatnagar, whose site is no other than Wular Lake itself. "A destructive earthquake occurred by which the earth in the middle of the city of Samdimatnagar was rift and water gushed out in a flood and soon submerged the whole city" (Pandit Anand Kaul). The learned writer added, "By the same earthquake a knoll of the hill at Baramulla near Khadanyar tumbled down which choked the outlet of the river Jhelum and consequently the water rose high at once and drowned the whole city together with its king and the inhabitants. This submerged city is now the site occupied by the Wular Lake." Till, lately, the spires of submerged temples were to be seen over the lake when the water level fell in winter. Zain-ul-Abidin built Zain Lank Island on one of these stone temples. Its ruins still exist on the islet. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ >From 10th to 14th century A.D., the government by Hindu kings and queens was made unstable by the warlike hordes - Damaras, Tantriyas and others. They manned small swift craft over the passive, submissive Vitasta. As Kalhana, the medieval poet-historian of Kashmir, put it: "These hordes were well skilled only in burning, plundering and fighting". Their places of shelter on the banks of the Vitasta were veritable castles, impregnable and strong. They were controlled only by more or less despotic monarchs like Harsha, Kanishka, Mihirigula and others, or by the unscrupulous diplomacy of Didda Rani and other queens. Much earlier than these unsettled times, the Capital had shifted to Srinagar, the present Srinagar. When the Muslim invaders conquered and settled in Kashmir, they built their palaces on the banks of the Jhelum on the sides of the canals that were excavated from the Jhelum. Among these the Mar Canal commemorates Sultan Zain-ul-Abidin, still popularly remembered by the folk as Badshah (great ruler). The calm flow of the Jhelum did not bring peace to the zealot's heart of Sultan Sikandar, better known as Sikandar the Idol- breaker, who, abetted by a convert prime minister, ravaged and razed to the ground magnificent monasteries and massive stone temples, almost wiping out the glory that was Kashmir. He built no structures to replace them. But the Jhelum did pacify and lend peace of mind to the Sultan's son, Sultan Zain-ul-Abidin (1420-70 A.D.). He spanned the bridge, Zaina Kadal, over the Jhelum, in Srinagar. (Near the bridge, on the right bank, is to be seen his tomb, contiguous to the site of the five-domed stone temple of Pravarasena II). He dug canals out of the Jhelum. The Jhelum proudly carried this "Akbar of Kashmir" up and down the Valley in magnificent boats, when he would visit Zaina Lank, the island of the Wular Lake where he had constructed a small palace and a mosque. Much more by way of grand spectacles were the river processions of the Moghuls among whom Jahangirand Shah Jahan stand out as the greatest lovers of Kashmir. Jahangir visited Verinag, the source of the Jhelum, 75 km above Srinagar. He loved this spot more than any other beauty spot of Kashmir. In 1612 A.D., he enclosed the gushing waters of the blue-water spring in an octagonal basin. In the Moghul building spanning the spring he had the famous picture gallery of Moghul potentates, princes and allies. On the bank of the Jhelum in Srinagar, Nur Jehan constructed the mosque of white polished stone, Pather Masjid, opposite Shah Hamdan's famous mosque. Tearfully, Jahangir left Verinag and Kashmir, when he had paid Kashmir the fourth visit in 1617 A.D., and died on his way over the steep rugged Himalayas with the wish that he wanted "Nothing but Kashmir" on his lips. Shah Jahan completed the work of his illustrious father at Verinag, by building the aqueducts. The Jhelum saw the glory of the reign of this lover of splendour. He loved the Dal Lake more than he loved the Jhelum. But the Dal pours itself into the Jhelum and so would Shah Jahan's royal boats cross from the Dal to the city over the sinuous Jhelum. The austere Moghul, Aumngzeb, visited Kashmir only once in 1664 A.D. He wasn't much of a lover of nature. He did not fall in love with Kashmir, nor for that matter with the Jhelum. The Jhelum saw black deeds of rash fury of the Afghans from 1750 A.D. onwards for over sixty years. Its fair bosom was tainted with corpses of the thousands of victims of the fanatic rage of the barbarous Afghans. It expressed its wrath through rising in floods many times, causing fearful devastation to man, his cattle and crops and other property, during this and later Sikh regime, which was heralded in 1819 A.D. Among Sikh Subedars, one at least gave the old happy look to the Jhelum. He was Col. Mian Singh, who was a popular governor and whose river processions over the Jhelum were a sight to see. The tradition of these processions was carried on by Dogra rulers, whose sway began in 1846 A.D. Especially, did Maharaja Pratap Singh organise the halts of these processions, for, from Baramulla, he would cruise up in a royal boat that had a becoming retinue. Maharaja Hari Singh continued the practice for many years. The Jhelum bore Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru in spectacular river processions when he visited Kashmir in 1941, 1945 and 1948. All this, and more, had been experienced and known by the Jhelum. The Vitasta - or Veth, into which the word Vitasta degenerated - saw the march of the ages, the variegated drama. Its sleepy flow hardly communicated what it knows; unless you dream back the past as I do often. At very many fond places, mostly solitary spots, I have watched the Jhelum flow by. Let me recollect. I have left the village far behind. Here I am seated on a bank of the Jhelum. Around me irises flash their heads in clusters. Noiselessly, majestically, the Jhelum glides along. It is gone muddy, due to recent rains. But that does not mar its calm, unruffled look, as it flows past those two picturesque islands, lush with maize and turf and willows all around them. A kingfisher broods over the bank near me, in a holy trance, awaiting innocent prey. Village women, clad in red and yellow pherans, gracefully carry the muddy water in their earthen pitchers on their heads. They walk in a line. Several are giggling. A ponywala descends the muddy ghat to give his obstinate pony a drink. A child is swimming the "women's swim". The opposite bank is lined with tall poplars, leafy Chinars, and graceful willows, in the sylvan beauty that suffuses Kashmir countryside. The reflection of Chinars, garbed in their autumnal glory as reflected in the Jhelum, flash upon my mind's eye; so do other remembered sights of the Jhelum. A strange sense of peace used to dawn on my restless soul, then 'cribbed, cabin'd and confined' in city surroundings and the humdrum routine life. A deeper calm, that is over and above our hurried existence, would pervade my being for the moment. The scene shifts to spring. I sit in a chair on the Bund of the city, above the Srinagar Club, overlooking the broad-bosomed Jhelum. The comfortable sun scintillates on the Jhelum. The ripples dance in circles. Somehow the tiny wavelets remind me of life's unending march, of something that goes on for ever and ever in spite of the seeming transitoriness of human life. The saga of the Valley that the Jhelum knows so well catches a significance, a meaning that is purposive and progressive. My reverie is disturbed by the cackles of the Hanjis fowl, noise of their children and their raised voices. A fisherman cautiously drops his outspread net. Splashes die down as the net disappears to strangle its catch of the finny tribe. Again I look and wonder at the broad and sparkling bosom of the Jhelum. Have stars come down to inhabit on the Jhelum ? The conceit vanishes as I look at the farther bank where the Chinars are not yet clothed in their green barb. Through their skeletons and over them I see the distant snow-draped mountains whose smooth shoulders shine in the spring. Sun-white clouds hover above the mountains. The calm Jhelum once again soothes the fever of my soul. To admire best the sinuous serpentine beauty of the Jhelum, you must climb the Shankaracharya Hill from Srinagar. Half an hour's climb rewards you with one of the finest views of the world. You trace the zigzag course of the Jhelum creeping like a snake over the fair Valley, that rises towards the karewas which form the picturesque foothills. It is this romantic motif that has inspired the designers of Kashmir. They repeat this pattern of the Jhelum very often in their embroidery on shawls and Jamvars. Flow on, Jhelum! Lend me the serenity that thou hast! Let me share thy calm, which thou hast persevered down the chequered ages! I can ever forget the wistful hours, I have spent on thy banks, or, when ferried up or down in a shikara or a house boat, I have dreamily looked and gazed at thy fair bosom, unconsciously assimilating thy message of peace and poise. Reminiscing over these musings, after two score years, in mid-1991, I ponder over the cataclysmic changes that the Jhelum has witnessed during this time-frame. After having seen the best of times, the historic Vitasta flew by peacefully while its banks were sullied with floating bodies of Kashmiris, done to death in the most gruesome manner, and its water besmeared with the blood of innocents. The Jhelum, however, has a resilience all its own. It beckons to the migrants, who have fled the un-'Happy Valley' that better times will return, that the trauma of militancy is a passing phenomenon in the march of history. Peace and happiness will return to the beautiful Himalayan environs criss-crossed by the broad-bosomed Jhelum. That is my fervent wish and devout prayer. Amen! Source: Tales of Kashmir by Somnath Dhar From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 16 11:43:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:13:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Activists stage demonstration against irregularities in issuing social security cards-146 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907152313q7381b141j7c2c8ae3426ec94f@mail.gmail.com> http://blog.taragana.com/n/activists-stage-demonstration-against-irregularities-in-issuing-social-security-cards-110329/ NEW DELHI - Activists of Socialist Unity Centre of India (SUCI) held a demonstration in the national capital, on Wednesday over irregularities in the distribution of Below Poverty Line (BPL) social security cards. Scores of SUCI activists marched to Delhi state secretariat, raising slogans against the government, alleging that Delhi government is laidback in issuing BPL cards. “Today our main demand is that people of this (Delhi) region that are living Below Poverty Line (BPL) have not yet received BPL cards. Many people have applied for these cards but so many years have passed and they are yet to receive BPL cards,” said Pratap Samal, State Secretary of SUCI. “People who have given cards for renewal have not received them back,” Samal added. Meanwhile, a member of parliament belonging to SUCI alleged that BPL cards are being issued to people living above poverty line, which is a gross misuse of the facility. “Taking the Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards there are lots of delay dealings, there are lots of corruption and there are nepotism. Those parties who are in power either in the state or the central government they are using these BPL cards for Above Poverty Line (APL).” said a member of parliament of SUCI. “The real people are not getting the BPL facilities,” the member added. BPL cardholders are entitled to get subsidised food grains from the government. (ANI) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 16 12:02:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:32:44 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani to give numbers, ministries to issue cards-147 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907152332m52dd553fh89dc9276fef89bc2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Here's what seems like a PR job? To maybe not let the citizens know exactly the 'stimulus' to IT is being carried out? First they create a rank, then they put a man, now the man isn't suppose to do what he was supposed to do. I wonder what is he doing there in the first place? Why this UIDAI does not have a website to its name where all the information related to it and all the official government views and positions are systematically documented. Surely of the 1.5 Lakh crore one can always keep some money to maintain a website. Maybe chip manufacturing companies should design a web site for UIDAI as a good will gesture. Regards Taha http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Nilekani-to-give-numbers-ministries-to-issue-cards/articleshow/4782505.cms Nilekani to give numbers, ministries to issue cards 16 Jul 2009, 0745 hrs IST, ET Bureau NEW DELHI: The National Authority for Unique Identity, headed by Nandan Nilekani, will aim at providing a unique number to all Indians, but not NEW DELHI: The National Authority for Unique Identity, headed by Nandan Nilekani, will aim at providing a unique number to all Indians, but not smart cards. It’s another matter that various ministries may, for their various purposes, choose to issue biometric cards using this unique number. But the Nilekani team itself will focus simply on ways to give all citizens a unique number, and let others issue cards for purposes they think fit. The unique ID number will not substitute other existing numbers a person may have (PAN, passport number, ration card number). Rather, it will be an additional, unique number to be cited along with existing numbers for different purposes. This will help weed out duplicate and ghost cards that are widespread today (notably in BPL ration cards), and, may be, benami bank accounts and property deeds. Instead of issuing cards, the Nilekani team will make available a unique ID database to all ministries and other partners, who can then integrate their databases (covering passports, ration cards, job cards, PAN cards) with the unique ID database. Some may issue biometric cards integrating the unique number with other existing numbers. The home ministry may issue a biometric card for weeding out illegal immigrants, and the rural development ministry may want a biometric card for transferring cash to the poor. A card issuer can be a facilitator and not a direct participant in transactions. For instance, a Visa credit card links consumers, retailers and banks, but Visa itself is just a card issuer collecting a percentage on sales, not a seller of goods or a banker. The Visa card simply facilitates retail and banking transactions. Participation in credit cards is entirely voluntary. This will also be the case with the unique ID scheme. Citizens will not be obliged to get a number. But those that don’t will find it very inconvenient: they will not have access to facilities that require you to cite your ID number. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 13:58:53 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:58:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Donate Your Sport Shoes - In Bombay Message-ID: For details, check: http://FundACause.posterous.com/donate-your-sport-shoes-bombay --- Excerpts from their mail: With a view to promote a healthy lifestyle and sports in the society, we, at Footprints, have initiated a shoe collection drive where you can gift your ‘gently worn’ sports shoes to the underprivileged. Our target is 200 shoes, which would be difficult to achieve without YOUR help. We are organizing *Shoe collection Drives *every* Sunday *at various locations across Mumbai to make it easier for individuals to gift their sport shoes. --- If you're on Twitter and want to tweet about this, check http://twitter.com/FundACause - Chandni From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 16 16:20:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:50:12 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?No_valid_data_on_refugees_in_Pakis?= =?windows-1252?q?tan=92s_northwest?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40907160350y37ae9c86o81c581d12a3da59a@mail.gmail.com> Dear All We are told that Unique Identification Card will be a boost to information gathering mechanism. This hardly seems to be the case in Pakistan. As an IANS report suggest, at least three sets of figures exists. Each dataset may have different and differing names and thus lives of different people will be dealt differently. Those that are visible to the Sarkaari eyes as numbers may be obliged with some form of relief and those that are not will be rendered as invisible. How that erasure from the Sarkaari memory will be dealt with is anybody's guess. One can, for a moment, think, that anything which happens in Pakistan is not bound to happen in India. That's true, but are we to believe that all Indian officials are incorruptible and totally efficient to be given a responsibility of not only documenting our individual identities correctly, not only classifying them and categorizing them as per appropriate policy but give them the privilege of safeguarding these identities? I know that this argument cannot be used to articulate a need to not to have an identity card, but could an argument- for a blanket issuance of identity documents to all Indians will have any veracity if it does not benefit all and is towards the good of all. Warm regards Taha http://blog.taragana.com/n/no-valid-data-on-refugees-in-pakistans-northwest-70633/ No valid data on refugees in Pakistan’s northwest Ians June 3rd, 2009 ISLAMABAD - The lack of valid data on the number of people displaced by the military’s anti-Taliban operations in the country’s troubled northwest has confirmed fears that many militants could have fled the area by intermingling with the refugees. At least three sets of figures exist. The social welfare department of the North West Frontier Province (NWFP) says it has registered 1.4 million refugees. The National Database and Registration Authority (NADRA) puts the number of displaced people at 1.73 million. On its part, the military had estimated there were some 4,000-5,000 Taliban in three districts of the NWFP when the security forces’ action began April 26. It now says about half of these could have fled the area in the garb of refugees after shaving their beards. The Pakistani government has sanctioned Rs.8 billion as initial aid for the refugees and announced each family would receive a one-time grant of Rs.25,000. However, the lack of reliable data on the refugees could also spark rampant corruption. This is because the Benazir Income Support Programme (BISP), under which relief will be distributed, has been asked to waive, on a one-time basis, the requirement of beneficiaries possessing a government-issued smart card listing their details. The UN estimates that some $543 million would be required for the relief and rehabilitation of the refugees. The security forces were ordered into action after the Taliban reneged on a controversial peace deal with the NWFP government and instead moved south from their Swat headquarters to occupy Buner, which is just 100 km from Islamabad. The operations had begun in Lower Dir, the home district of Taliban-backed radical cleric Sufi Mohammad who had brokered the peace deal and who is Swat Taliban commander Maulana Fazlullah’s father-in-law, and later spread to Buner and Swat. Under the peace deal, the Taliban were to lay down arms in return for Sharia laws in Swat, Buner, Lower Dir and four other districts of the NWFP that are collectively known as the Malakand division. The military says it has so far killed some 1,300 Taliban fighters in its operations but will not lay down a time-frame for their conclusion. Thus, it is anyone’s guess as to when the refugees will be able to return home. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 16 16:35:46 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:05:46 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Forbes India: Nilekani's new job is lining up a nation Message-ID: <65be9bf40907160405r11cf88eeraf8c8553a434d782@mail.gmail.com> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/forbes-india-nilekanis-new-job-is-lining-up-a-nation/97186-7-single.html Forbes India: Nilekani's new job is lining up a nation Mitu Jayashankar & Rohin Dharmakumar / Forbes India The man Nandan Nilekani The mission To provide an identity card to each Indian What’s the big deal? It is the world’s largest biometric identity card project. The database will cover as many as 1.16 billion people. Project cost Rs 20,000 crore. Why we need it It will help take social security and banking services to the under-served population. It will also weed out illegal immigrants. The challenge To scale up technology, devices and processes to develop it and keep it running What can he do? Nilekani’s networking skills and ability to build consensus on divisive issues will come in handy. People to watch Tata Consultancy, Infosys, Wipro, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, HCL, 3i Infotech and IL&FS Technologies are likely to bid for the project Budget highlights Pranab Mukherjee (“This project is very close to my heart.”) has set aside Rs 120 crore for the project; promised to deliver the first cards in 12-18 months He co-founded one of India’s most respected companies, Infosys. He first coined the phrase “the world is flat” that was adopted by author Tom Friedman as the title for his best-selling book. He wrote a 500-page tome linking India’s history to its future. And then, he quit his alma mater for a crack at governance. Nandan Nilekani, 53, today stands before the greatest challenge of his life — of giving an identity card to each of the 1.16 billion people in the country. As Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s hand-picked champion for the national identity card project, Nilekani has kicked off his public career with one of the most difficult tasks of governance where others have failed before. To succeed, he will have to marshal all that he learnt in his corporate career of three decades, primarily his networking skills and a noted ability to convert deadlocks into consensus. “If I had to give up my career at Infosys for something, it had to be impactful like this,” Nilekani says as he prepares to draw a blueprint for the formidable project. “Obviously the massive transformational promise of a project of this kind is hard to resist, and while I have achieved success in other fields, this is a new area.” The task seems simple enough: To give each citizen a card that can establish his or her identity at any place, any time. This will help to target social security schemes better, take business services to the remotest parts and weed out illegal immigrants. But given the size of the population and the fact that most people in villages don’t have any document to prove who they are, it is a task of nightmarish proportions. As the head of the newly created Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI), Nilekani will have to reconcile, if not integrate, the project’s ambitious goals with the reality that is Indian bureaucracy and politics. The sheer scale — it is the world’s largest identity card project — will render many assumptions invalid. So, how can Nilekani pull it off? Past mistakes Recent attempts to create a citizen database have failed. The National Democratic Alliance government headed by AB Vajpayee launched the Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) project as a way to tackle illegal immigration. It ignored citizen databases like the Election Commission’s voter list (unreliable because politicians had got illegal immigrants into the list as a quid pro quo for votes) and the Census report (no photo proof). The MNIC project’s main objective was to establish nationality. The pilot project, in which only about 12 lakh cards were issued against a target of 20 lakh, was wrapped up and nothing was heard about MNIC after that. Ernst & Young (E&Y) was a consultant to the project in which public sector entities like Bharat Electronics played the main role. Why was MNIC given a silent burial? Not just because the government changed at the Centre. The blame, says an expert who wishes to remain anonymous, lay with the MNIC’s focus on just establishing nationality which went well with BJP’s politics. The United Progressive Alliance government of Manmohan Singh did not want to sustain that image of a police state ahead of the 2009 elections. It is now driving the Unique Identity Project (UID), with a focus on taking civic and business services to the under-served people. Experts who track biometric card technology say MNIC was designed badly. Initially, prints from only a few fingers of an applicant were taken. This worked well when the numbers were small, but started spouting duplicate results when more people were covered. The only way a biometric project will work in India is to take prints of all 10 fingers. Adding other records such as iris scans could make it more efficient. Another problem is that most people in the villages as well as new immigrants in the cities don’t have any primary documents. To pull them out of this black hole presents its own challenges. I’ve ID, therefore I am An identity card project must be fool-proof. “The moment you give a national ID card, it becomes the be-all and end-all for a citizen. And if that doesn’t work, he is as good as dead,” says a partner at E&Y specialising in government practice Guru Malladi. Fingerprint-based recognition is the most widely-preferred solution that is used to identify people, given that each human being is thought to have unique fingerprints. But experts say there are practical difficulties. For instance, hardworking labourers and farmers lose some of their fingerprints. This means a mix of identification techniques should be used. The volume of hardware that would be required to keep an identity system running across the country is enormous. The government has so far failed to develop an ecosystem of technology providers, smart card makers and equipment vendors to help make that happen. “We faced hardware supply issues during the MNIC trials when the volume was just 20 lakh, so you can imagine what will happen when we scale that to 100 crore,” says Malladi. The next challenge is to avoid duplication of efforts by the government. The next census exercise is round the corner in 2011. “Census data forms the foundation for most ID card projects. And given that the Registrar General of India has already started the process of collecting citizen information, why not align to their schedule?” Malladi asks. This will save money and reduce the probability of errors. Another useful database will be the one with the public distribution system. Obviously, bringing together various government departments to work with a common goal is difficult. The prime minister may have chosen just the right person for this task. “This job needs consensus building, very high networking abilities and also heavy persuasion — a sales job. All these are things that I had done at Infosys,” asserts Nilekani. From sarang_shidore at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 19:47:51 2009 From: sarang_shidore at yahoo.com (Sarang Shidore) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Israel, US readying a massive attack on Iran? Message-ID: <91850.74309.qm@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "The rumor mills have been further fed by the reported delivery this year of an unusually large shipment of advanced US weapons to Israel. This apparently included more than 3,000 tonnes of deep-ground penetration, bunker-busting air-dropped munitions, arguably sufficient to destroy a significant proportion of Iran's heavily defended nuclear facilities...(and) more than 5,000 smart bombs, probably made up of at least 500 BLU-109 one-ton bunker-busters that can penetrate two-meter-thick cement walls and 1,000 GBU-39 bunker-busters precision-guided by satellite to their targets. Israel may also have now acquired the BLU-113 deep-penetration weapon, an improved GBU-28. This variant is believed to be capable of penetrating some three meters of reinforced concrete - which would probably be sufficient to destroy the well-protected Iranian facilities at Natanz." Behind the mind games in the Gulf By Richard M Bennett Psywar is the name of the game with Iran and both Israel and the United States appear to be raising the ante significantly with a combination of military exercises and public pronouncements that could be taken to suggest that all options are now firmly back on the table. While the growing psychological pressure being exerted has so far had little clear discernible effect on Tehran's government, the same cannot be said of the mullahs. Within the ranks of the secretive religious leadership in the holy city of Qom there appears to be both confusion and disagreement about the after-effects of the disputed presidential election in June that saw President Mahmud Ahmadinejad re-elected, and in the response to international pressure over Tehran's continuing nuclear development. The fault lines are there and the West will no doubt hope to exploit them. However, this will not be easy as none of the various competing factions led by Grand Ayatollahs Ali Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader; former president Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani; Ali Montazeri or others are particularly warm to the West and outside interference by Washington will certainly not be welcome. This also applies to the reportedly growing influence of Iraqi Shi'ite leader Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who appears to have offered his support to what must pass for the moderate or reformist wing of the Iranian religious leadership. Washington must also be well aware that any form of overt interference could be costly and in the end prove counter-productive. Intelligence failure While US intelligence provides an extremely high level of technological surveillance of Iran with advanced satellite and terrestrial platforms, a number of widely reported HUMINT (human intelligence) setbacks and failures in recent years have left the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) with few useful assets within either the Iranian military or the intelligence community. Robert Sale, reporting in the Middle East Times of March 31, 2009, claimed, "The CIA had lost its entire agent network in Iran when a CIA headquarters communications officer was about to send instructions to an agent via its Immarsat transmitter/receivers." Sale explained that the CIA officer had attempted to download data intended for a single operative, but accidentally hit a button that sent it to the entire US spy network in Iran. The information was received by a double agent who quickly passed it on to his case officer in MOIS (Ministry of Intelligence and Security). The Iranian counter-intelligence service was then able to wrap up the entire network within days, reportedly leaving Washington virtually blind. Whether this report is totally correct or an exaggeration, the CIA has appeared to be critically short of good intelligence in recent years and this may have significantly contributed to a number of seemingly contradictory reports on the state of Iran's nuclear program, which many suspect is geared towards developing nuclear weapons. Israel's Mossad, however, appears to still have some good sources both within Iran and Iranian communities abroad, as do a number of Western European intelligence services, but none are believed to be high-ranking officials or those who could provide a genuine insight into Tehran's long-term intentions. This said, the in-fighting between senior clerics backing either Ahmadinejad or his main defeated rival, former prime minister Mir Hossein Mousavi, has provided a glimmer of hope that Iran's leadership is no longer truly united in continuing to defy the world community over nuclear weapons, or even perhaps recognition of Israel. The remaining chance for a peaceful solution could rest on those senior religious leaders who may now believe that there is little benefit to be gained from pursuing the present confrontational course and that a normalization of international relations would be in the best long-term interests of the region as a whole and the Iranian people in particular. Others might, however, suggest that the only policies that the clerics really wish to pursue are those that will keep them in supreme power in Iran. Military options One of the latest hikes in this potentially dangerous psychological warfare game to see who blinks first has been the much reported, but so far unconfirmed, claim that Saudi Arabia may have privately offered to allow Israeli military aircraft safe passage through its airspace for a strike on the joint enemy - Iran. This has been vigorously denied by Israeli sources and, unsurprisingly, has not been confirmed by the Saudis. It does, however, fit in nicely with the growing belief in some quarters that while Saudi Arabia may still be unwilling to accept the de jure state of Israel, it probably now views the regime in Tehran as a very real threat to the continued survival of the Saudi Kingdom. Meanwhile, members of Iraq's parliament have warned Israel not to attempt to use Iraqi airspace to attack its powerful neighbor. This is a somewhat disingenuous statement as the Baghdad government simply does not have the military means to prevent such an overflight. Only the United States might have the genuine capability in the region and it is unlikely in the extreme that President Barack Obama would order US fighters aloft to intercept an incoming Israeli strike on Iranian strategic targets. Britain's Daily Telegraph recently claimed that Israel was actually negotiating with the United States for permission to fly over Iraq as part of a plan to attack Iran's nuclear facilities. All of this follows the constant reports of extensive rehearsals by the Israelis for just such an operation. These have been heavily influenced by the hard lessons learnt during the less than impressive air war in southern Lebanon in 2006 against the Iranian-backed forces of Hezbollah and the rather more successful air raid on a secret Syrian special weapons facility in 2007. It is reported that Israeli strike aircraft have flown a number of test runs to an area off Gibraltar, roughly the same distance from Israel's main air bases as the most sensitive strategic targets in Iran. The New York Times of June 20, 2008, reported that "US officials say Israel carried out a large military exercise this month that appeared to be a rehearsal for a potential bombing attack on Iran's nuclear facilities. More than 100 Israeli F-16 and F-15 fighters took part in the maneuvers over the eastern Mediterranean and Greece in the first week of June. The exercise appeared to be an effort to focus on long-range strikes and illustrates the seriousness with which Israel views Iran's nuclear program." The Times of London reported several months ago that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) was making determined preparations to be able to launch a massive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities within a short period after the operation was sanctioned by Israel's government. A senior Israeli defense official apparently told The Times, "Israel wants to know that if its forces were given the green light they could strike at Iran in a matter of days, even hours. They are making preparations on every level for this eventuality. The message to Iran is that the threat is not just words." The rumor mills have been further fed by the reported delivery this year of an unusually large shipment of advanced US weapons to Israel. This apparently included more than 3,000 tonnes of deep-ground penetration, bunker-busting air-dropped munitions, arguably sufficient to destroy a significant proportion of Iran's heavily defended nuclear facilities. It has been claimed that the stockpiling of US-made bunker-busting bombs by Israel has been ongoing since 2005. These are believed to include more than 5,000 smart bombs, probably made up of at least 500 BLU-109 one-ton bunker-busters that can penetrate two-meter-thick cement walls and 1,000 GBU-39 bunker-busters precision-guided by satellite to their targets. Israel may also have now acquired the BLU-113 deep-penetration weapon, an improved GBU-28, a major shipment of which was received in August 2006 at the height of the air war in Lebanon. This variant is believed to be capable of penetrating some three meters of reinforced concrete - which would probably be sufficient to destroy the well-protected Iranian facilities at Natanz. Israel also possesses a range of indigenous advanced air-launched stand-off weapons, such as the Delilah-GL with a range in excess of 300 kilometers and the Popeye Lite, which is also in service with United States Air Force as the AGM-142 Have Nap These and other assets in combination with an IDF air fleet of about 100 specially modified long-range F16I Sufa and 25 F15I Ra'am strike aircraft may be sufficient to destroy or significantly degrade much of Iran's nuclear infrastructure. This goes with the proviso that the attacking aircraft are provided with a safe zone for in-flight refueling It has recently been reported that an Israeli Dolphin-class submarine armed with US Harpoon missiles and capable of carrying the 480-kilometer or so range and nuclear-armed Popeye Turbo cruise missile has been allowed to transit the Suez Canal on its way to the Red Sea. As long ago as 2000 it was reported that Israeli submarines had carried out cruise missile firing tests in the Indian Ocean, possibly in cooperation with the Indian navy. The small Israeli submarine fleet with three submarine-launched cruise missiles-capable vessels could still provide a significant addition to Israel's strategic reach and allow for simultaneous sea-launched missile attacks on important targets considered to be beyond the acceptable target zone for strike aircraft. End game The US administration recently further raised the international stakes. Vice President Joe Biden told ABC reporter George Stephanopoulos when interviewed on July 5 that Israel had the right to determine its own course of action with regard to the Iranian nuclear threat, regardless of what the Obama administration chose to do. It would be right to point out that this neither indicates a change in US policy nor a "green light" from Washington for an Israeli attack. It does, however, indicate that the Obama administration is aware that it can only restrain Israel so far and certainly not beyond the point where the Israeli government genuinely believes its security has been or soon will be significantly compromised Biden made this clear when asked whether the Obama administration would restrain Israeli military action against Iran, "Israel can determine for itself - it's a sovereign nation - what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else." Biden appeared to hint that Obama was looking to take a harder line toward Iran over its contentious nuclear program. It is unlikely that even the oft-outspoken Biden would have been willing to make such a clear statement without it being in firmly in line with the thinking of both the president and the State Department. Obama subsequently strongly denied that his administration had given a green light to Israel to carry out an attack on Iran. Whatever the mind games being played in the Gulf, whatever the rhetoric, the hyperbole and the countless claims and denials, it remains highly unlikely that even a successful Israeli attack on Iran could avoid some form of direct US involvement eventually, and most probably within a matter of days or even hours. Any Iranian retaliation would almost certainly be swift and involve widespread attacks on the US and other Western interests throughout the region. Such a deadly response would quickly require some form of major US military response. However, should an Israeli attack be a failure, a more than possible scenario, then the US may have little or no alternative but to finish the job, as a failed attack would leave Iran enraged and vengeful, and if it is not already, set it on the path to nuclear armament. Richard M Bennett is an intelligence analyst with AFI Research. (Copyright 2009 Richard M Bennett.) From sarang_shidore at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 20:19:10 2009 From: sarang_shidore at yahoo.com (Sarang Shidore) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] China positions renminbi as the international currency of exchange Message-ID: <658022.27551.qm@web31815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "The bank estimated that Chinese gross domestic product could hit $4,700bn this year, implying it could overtake Japan as the world’s second-largest economy in 2010, while it was likely to overtake Germany as the world’s second-largest trading country by the end of the year." For nearly two thousand years before the advent of European (and North American) colonial hegemony, the global trading powerhouses - with major trade surpluses and trade volume - were historical India (i.e. modern South Asia) and China. In fact it has been estimated that between the 1st and 18th centuries, the Indian subcontinent and China together contributed an astounding 50-60% of the world's GDP. And then we had two simultaneous events - the European Enlightenment followed by the Industrial Revolution in the West, while Plassey and the Opium Wars sealed the fate of the East. The return of China to the center of global trade is only a long overdue correction, returning to the historical reality that existed through most of urban human history. A century from now we may conclude that the ~ 300 years of global European and North American supremacy was but an aberration in the global distribution of economic, political, and perhaps even cultural influence. Sarang ---- China plans global role for renminbiBy Peter Garnham Published: July 14 2009 20:00 | Last updated: July 14 2009 20:00Financial Times China has kick-started a major plan to internationalise the renminbi and the process is likely to be faster than many expect, according to HSBC.If successful, this could lead to nearly $2,000bn in annual trade flows, or as much as 50 per cent of China’s total, being settled in renminbi each year by 2012, compared with less than 10 per cent today.The move follows calls by China for the world to adopt a supranational currency to replace the dollar. “China is beginning an ambitious scheme to raise the role of the renminbi in international trade and finance and to reduce reliance on the US dollar,” said Qu Hongbin, China chief economist at HSBC. “This will likely be a multi-year and gradual process. Yet, we believe the pace is likely to be faster than many expect.”HSBC said the internationalisation of the renminbi was long overdue, given China’s rising economic power relative to the limited use of the renminbi overseas.The bank estimated that Chinese gross domestic product could hit $4,700bn this year, implying it could overtake Japan as the world’s second-largest economy in 2010, while it was likely to overtake Germany as the world’s second-largest trading country by the end of the year. China announced a pilot programme last week that expanded renminbi settlement agreements between Hong Kong and five major trading cities, including Guangzhou and Shanghai. Furthermore, this year the People’s Bank of China has signed a total of Rmb650bn ($95bn) in bilateral currency swap agreements with six central banks: South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Belarus and Argentina.HSBC said China was still in talks with other central banks to form additional swap agreements and was likely to expand them to cover all the country’s trade with Asia, excluding Japan. This would be followed by an expansion to take in other emerging countries, including those in the Middle East and Latin America, that needed renminbi to pay for their imports of Chinese manufactured goods.“More than half of China’s total trade flows, primarily bilateral trade with emerging market countries, are likely to be settled in renminbi in the next three to five years,” said Mr Qu. “This means that nearly $2,000bn worth of cross-border trade flows would be settled in renminbi, making it one of the top three currencies used in global trade.” From iram at sarai.net Thu Jul 16 23:20:05 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:20:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: Professor's views on homosexuality and more... Message-ID: <4A5F684D.8000604@sarai.net> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chandni Parekh > To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:29:33 +0530 Subject: Professor's views on homosexuality and more... http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/14/the-oppressor-and-victim-is-who-and-what-now/ Excerpts from the long blog post: Oh this story is so rich for critique . The summary is this: NYU Law, my alma mater, invited National University of Singapore professor Dr. Li-ann Thio to teach as a visiting professor. Dr. Thio is slated to teach “Human Rights in Asia,” and is certainly an accomplished academic and politician. However, Dr. Thio also has some, uh, /questionable /views on homosexuality and gay rights — she compared anal sex to “shoving a straw up your nose to drink,” for example, and in a speech supporting the continued criminalization of sex between men (which she called “acts of gross indecency”) let loose gems such as “You cannot make a human wrong a human right” and “Diversity is not a license for perversity.” In response to Graves-Pryor’s email, Dr. Thio issued an 18-point rebuttal , which she sent to the entire NYU Law faculty. Her argument, basically, is that she is the victim here, and that oppressive and malicious homosexuals are slandering her and destroying her reputation. From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Thu Jul 16 12:44:13 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:14:13 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_films_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_videos_for_CologneOFF__-_5th_festival_edition?= Message-ID: <20090716091413.1173F961.FEEA66EA@192.168.0.3> Call for entries: Deadline: Tuesday, 1 September 2009 --------------------------- CologneOFF V - 5th edition of Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org is planned to be launched in November 2009 under the festival themes 1. Taboo 2. Violence ---------------------------------------------------- Entry ---------------------------------------------------- VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest.org invites artists and directors for submitting videos/films, i.e. narratives and documentations (max 15 min.) experimenting with new concepts of transforming artistic contents into moving images, new forms of representing und new technologies Deadline: 1 September 2009 No entry fee! All entry details and the submission form can be found on netEX - networked experience http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1030 ---------------------------------------------------- About CologneOFF ---------------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org , founded in 2006 as a new type of mobile film & video festival taking place simultaneously online and physical space in cooperation with partner festivals, is directed by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne The first 4 festival editions CologneOFF I - "Identityscapes" - 2006 CologneOFF II - "Image vs Music" - 2006 CologneOFF III - "Toon! Toon! - art cartoons and animates narriatives" - 2007 Cologne IV - "Here We Are" - 2008 were presented between 2006 and 2009 in cooperation with festivals in India, The Netherlands Venezuela, Argentina, France Serbia, Spain, Poland, Belgium, Turkey, Greece, Mexico, Bosnia-Hercegovia, Indonesia and others More info on http://coff.newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------- This call is released by netEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net . info (at) nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Wed Jul 15 13:07:45 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (videoNET) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:37:45 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_German_video_art?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=3A_Johanna_Reich?= Message-ID: <20090715093745.C8EA35F0.E7EB51B5@192.168.0.3> VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest.org is happy to launch the first of a series of features of German video art. dedicated in July 2009 to Johanna Reich - video artist from Cologne/Germany http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=273 "Johanna Reich, a young video artist living and working in Cologne/ Germany, is walking consequently on a performative path in video art, giving the camera, the action or the performative process and the result in form of a video a new and very personal meaning. She involves the audience by provoking the visual senses with unexpected results. Her videos are much closer to performance as a form of contemporary art than filmic narritive or technological aspects, the videos go to the essence of the medium and have something purist we know from Japanese abstract minimalism of Zen, something very spiritual which seems to be very familiar and very strange at the same time. Thus art in its best sense." (Wilfried Agricola de Cologne, curator) Read --> her interview on VIP -VideoChannel Interview Project http://vip.newmediafest.org/?page_id=22 --> her biography on AND - Artists Network Database http://and.nmartproject.net/?p=111 Direct access to the online feature also via http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/2009/dvk-reich-index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ VideoChannel forms together with CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival, VIP VideoChannel Interview Project and VAD - Video Art Database - a unity focussing on art forms of film and video in the framework of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne - www.nmartproject.net the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany info (at) nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From justjunaid at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 01:37:46 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:37:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran Discussions on the Reader-List (I) Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, Thank you for the informative post on Iran. In that short post you have managed well to marshal together many facts and figures to support your well-argued conclusions. You have also summarized nicely the main issues that have emerged from the debates here so far. But as we said earlier, our differences on Iran shall remain, mostly on issues of how to interpret “facts,” the perspectives through which one sees Iran, and not least of all on how Iran is a perfect example of “a discourse” which to an incredible level has lost its bearing in reality. Something that strikes me as an obsessive “netizen” who reads everything that is written about Iran on the net, (but also in newspapers and on TV) is the vehemence with which writers, columnists, bloggers, TV presenters, analysts, experts, and both right-wing and left-wing activists are denying that the protestors in Iran are elite Tehranians, and argue how Moussavi is a ‘changed man.’ It is striking because I very rarely come across anyone who defends Ahmedinejad and says the protestors are elites. (Yes, I do—say protestors are mostly elites –but I don’t defend Ahmedinejad). So this colossal volume of discussion that is happening around Iran gives us an impression that there is some huge propaganda machinery they are fighting against. But the propaganda machinery is nowhere to be seen. Even Iranian government, which still remains unheard, except two statements—one from Khamenie and another issued by the Guardian Council, have been so feeble in its defense. The Press TV, which everyone somehow agrees is “partially-funded” by the Iranian government, has carried reports that, if not very favourable to him, have been portraying Moussavi as a genuine politician with genuine grievances. Most of the left has sided with the protestors and the few who didn’t are being angrily criticized. It looks like the Indian lower house of Parliament where it seems two sides are having an intense debate, but the camera is focused on the opposition only, who are shouting and debating with a messianic zeal. The sad fact is that the other side of the house is empty. There is no one debating from the other side. I continue to believe that HDI is a very comprehensive method of evaluating how a country is performing as far as providing a good life to its citizens goes. The index also takes into account Gender Development Index while calculating HDI. HDI includes as varied figures as GDP per Capita to Social Exclusion, Knowledge indicators like percentage of adults lacking Functional Literary Skills to Access to Improved Water Source. GDI measures Gender Empowerment, women’s participation in social life, representation in legislatures, jobs, education, and the values of their earned income (PPP$US). Countries are heavily penalized for having larger value of GDI. And funnily Iran has performed very well in terms of HDI, as you also maintain. You point out that this trend predates the Islamic Revolution. However, UNDP started using HDI for its Human Development Reports only after 1990. We don’t have any credible sources which take as aggregate a picture as HDI does to see how Iran was under the Shah’s regime. But as far as history and conjecture can tell us Iran was doing very badly before the Revolution. The royalty along with the elites in Iran made windfall profits out of the boom in oil prices and built assets worldwide (which allowed them to emigrate later very comfortably to easy lives in the West) but most of the peasantry and the working population continued to remain stuck in their impervious poverty. How else can one explain the massive disenchantment with Shah’s regime or the emergence of revolution and probably even a radical move towards religion? You rightly point out the massive toll Iran took in a war imposed by the Bathists on them. The utter devastation it caused as far as millions of able-bodied Iranians were destructed. You use it to explain women’s entry into education and jobs, which is ok. And as you say, that is mostly how women in many western countries entered into public life. You can observe the rise of women in industry and services and agriculture and public life generally follows major wars, when men can’t keep up with the requirements of the captains of industry. But I don’t understand how this argument suggests Iran is developing strangely or funnily enough as compared to western countries as to deserve a special comment. I would have thought it worthy of an exceptional commentary if Iranian govt had somehow prevented Iranian women from taking jobs or entering schools and colleges, like the Taliban did. The strong feminist voice in Iran is a pleasant development and needs consistent support because as in most other countries women continue to suffer a society dominated by men. Equal wages for women is still a dream in most other countries. In a number of countries it is enshrined into law, but is rarely practiced on ground—same old difference between word and substance. I love the way you club Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan and which-gobsmacked-country together in saying how their elites live double-lives and have assets abroad! What about elites of every other country? What about India? What about double-lives lived in India and by Indians abroad? I feel it is an exercise more in “de-hyphenation” that Indians want vis-à-vis Indo-Pak as it is designed to reaffirm a sense of “failed state” to all these above mentioned countries. To give a better sense of unemployment and poverty, let me give you an example of economic disingenuity in this regard. Employment in its usual sense can mean percentage of employable people who work to get a wage or salary. Unemployment however does not take into account “underemployment,” which is most rampant in India. Indian govt. has consistently peddled a figure of 7 percent unemployment, ignoring the fact of how many people are underpaid, or unemployed for much of the year, and what percentage get just basic minimum wages. If all that is taken into account, coupled with the fact of how many women work compared to men, it presents a much uglier picture as compared to Iran and many other developing countries. There is still almost a quarter of Indian population that lives below poverty line, and another quarter that hovers just above it. Tell me how many people in India have access to clean drinking water. Even big cities like Bombay don’t have water these days. The sky-rocketing stock-market and Manmohan-Montek rate of growth for the last 20 years (exactly the time when Iran began its post-war reconstruction) is not reflected anywhere as far as improvement of the lives of Indians in general is concerned. Compare that to Iran, which had all the back-log to work with, sanctions on its trade and consistent threats to the country by Israel-and US, India has fared much worse. You used figures from three sources: IMF, World Bank, and CIA fact book. And all of them give a drastically divergent figure when it comes to GDP per capita. For Iran, IMF says the figure is 4732 --2008(a figure you choose to quote), World Bank says it is 5352, while as CIA fact book says it is estimated to be 5803. This difference of more than a 1000 is crucial (for India the difference is just 52) when it comes to understanding the economic impact of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. It can lead to differences of opinion on how well or badly Ahmedinejad’s policies have been. Although the figures for Iran’s GDP per capita based on Purchasing Power Parity are similarly divergent in the three sources indicated above but what is interesting in the figures is how the difference widens between India and Iran when it comes to GDP pc PPP—a more realistic understanding of people’s economic prosperity. For Iran it is close to $12000—a gain of almost $7000, while for India it is around 2800—a gain of just $1700. Dear Shuddha I think you have made a mistake in understanding GINI coefficient for India and Iran. The sources you indicate suggest that Iran has more rich and more middle class people as compared to India which seems to have less rich and less middle class percentage population. India gets a higher gini because of the sheer number of people that are poor, which makes household incomes more equal among the majority at the bottom. Plus the data for India is from 2004, while for Iran it is 1998. It is 6 years too many. And makes a difference. On your point about incarceration I think you are off the mark. The rate of incarceration may in reality point to divergent conclusions. For example, in the report you point to, Cuba comes almost close to the top while Saudi Arabia comes below Iran. US has a better gini coefficient than Iran, yet the rate of incarcetation in the US is four times more than Iran. Same for Israel, the gini coefficient is lower yet the rate of incarceration is greater than Iran. I think many other factors result in higher rates of incarceration, and one important one is effectives of the law and order enforcement—Rwanda is an exception because of its peculiar recent history. Many countries with low rate of incarceration like Belgium have low crime rate or political opposition, while countries like India have higher crime and political opposition but law and order mechanism is inefficient or the jail capacity is small. However, I am not suggesting that rate of incarceration and inequality has nothing to do with each other. Iranian political prisoners are international superstars but nobody gives a care for Indian political prisoners. Neda (killed by unknown people—not even involved in protests) becomes an icon, while Sheikh Aziz, shot dead by Indian forces openly infront of hundreds of thousands of people, leading a peaceful procession against Indian rule gets no NY Times or Wall Street coverage. And as I said earlier Journalist Zubeiri arrested and released in Iran becomes toast of the world media, but Iftikhar Gilani’s year long imprisonment and brutal beating and torture of Kashmiri journalists gets ignored. I call this “mind games”. Not in the high-politics sense, but in the sense of what is happening to us inside, how desperately we try to feel good about ourselves. And then there is the discourse, but about that later… Unlike North Korea, US, Russia, China, and India, Iran spends a very small percentage of its budget on defence. In fact it is one of the least spenders in the region on defensive and offensive armaments. Saudis and Israelis outstrip Iranians by billions. So where did all the oil money go? I don’t think it helps Khamenie to have assets in US or Europe, given the fact that he will never live there. Nor will Ahmedinejad or for that matter Moussavi or Montazerri and Khatami. Plus Iranian assets abroad are very likely to be frozen which is not perhaps a risk worth taking. It is also strange that just when the oil price boom happened (in 1973 and 1979) the economic indicators in Iran fell drastically. I guess if Shah’s regime was sincere then that money should have helped improve the life standards of Iranian masses. But Shah was more given to grandeur and organizing massive celebrations of Persia’s great past than using that money judiciously. The reports that you quote from Press TV can actually suggest the same for India. If poverty line is adjusted a little to the up, imagine how many Indians till now considered not BPL will become BPL. See the figure that is the cut-off for Iran for BPL is much higher than India. In fact, Iranian BPL was till a few years ago the GDP per capita in India. Also the minimum monthly wage in India is much below what Iran has—as suggested by the report you quote—even after the fall in wage rate in Iran. I am not suggesting here that Indian government is not working to improve the lives of its people, and I know a big population presents a major challenge for India. Comparison between India and Iran can sometimes deflect our attention away from the fact that India is beset with a billion people. Similarly we can’t compare Norway (4.5 million people) with Iran (around 70 million people), because of different histories and experiences. When was the last time Norway fought a war? To say that Iran has oil so it should have no problems is not intelligent because of the complexities of the Iranian society and the kind of back drop in which Islamic Revolution took place. I am no fan of the revolution or the clergy or Khamenie or Ahmedinejad, but I think Iran is not too exceptional a country to deserve such great negative attention from the world or threats from global bullies. Indian government’s policies haven’t turned around the fortunes of its people but should that mean its people should all bury its constitution and destroy the parliament or its institutions. The figure you give for the urban population of Iran is right as Iran has urbanized rapidly albeit without industrialization. This has led the poor people from villages and small towns to migrate and become urban poor in cities like Tehran and Mashad. Ahmedinejad govt used some of the oil money to create subsidies for the poor, a policy that you call “squandering away the money earmarked for future”. I don’t agree it is wasteful to give benefits to the poor. It is immediate and effective. Liberal economics would call this policy wasteful, and that is why Public Distribution System was wrapped up in India. Apart from its own burgeoning young employable people, Iran also holds one of the largest refugee populations in the world. Most of them are from Afghanistan and Iraq. Iranian govt has had to deal with the situation all by itself, because UNHCR has practically contributed nothing. And none of the refugee problems are a result of Iranian actions. Ahmedinejad’s focus, as I said earlier has been “redistribution” instead of “growth” which annoys a lot of clergy as well as the members of the majlis. I think, Shuddha, we can read why the news from Iran died down, differently. I think it was not the “news” from Iran that was killed by the news of Michael Jackson’s death; it was the protest itself. There will be a lot of talk about Khamenie’s crony sons, like there was talk of Saddam’s sons. There will be a Joe Biden saying Israel (200 undeclared nuclear weapons) should do what it wants; while Iran (signatory to NPT) must prove that it has no intention to develop N-weapons. I don’t know how intentions can be proved. Probably by putting a humongous gold necklace around Mr. Obama’s neck. Or, by offering all its airports to the US to launch attacks into Afghanistan even when the US doesn’t need it (remember Jaswant Singh). I wish all states begin to unravel on their streets and towns and villages. We could then have Gandhiji’s village republics but with no Board of Trustees. Junaid From jumpshark at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 08:06:36 2009 From: jumpshark at gmail.com (Prashant Pandey) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:06:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] sarai reader article abstract Message-ID: Dear Monica I want to write an article on fear, anger and hatred both observed, imagined by me as a screenwriter based in Bollywood. written from an outsiders pov,i want to invoke certain historical metaphors to contextualize my experiences in the film industry. This link will give an idea about my works here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prashant_Pandey regds prashant From kuhutanvir at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 13:45:27 2009 From: kuhutanvir at gmail.com (Kuhu Tanvir) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:45:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call For Papers - European Producers and Production Contemporary practices in film, television and multimedia environments Message-ID: Call For Papers - Special Issue of Wide Screen European Producers and Production Contemporary practices in film, television and multimedia environments Edited by Professor Graham Roberts (Liverpool Screen School, Liverpool John Moores University) and Dr Dorota Ostrowska (School of History of Art, Film and Visual Media, Birkbeck, University of London) About the Special Issue This issue of Wide Screen is interested in the ways in which the contemporary media environment has changed the role and function of a producer. We would like to understand new models of production emerging as a result of new media environments (multimedia, game industry, internet). Does the multimedia environment lead to a greater specialisation on the part of particular producers in relation to the content they deliver, or does it result in producers extending their activity into a wider range of media and content? How do the profession, work, role and function of a producer differ depending on the national context in which they function? What is the impact of EU-wide policies on production practices in Europe? Possible topics of interest include, but are not limited to: Wide Screen invites articles on individual producers focusing on one of the following themes: co-productions, festival circuits (film, television and computer games markets), EU funding programmes and policies, education and training, freelancers vs in-house producers, networking, contracts, creativity, risk-taking, types of producers (creative, executive, line-producers), contracts, relationship with talent (directors, writers, actors), DVD releases (in particular special collectors editions)/DVD companies; production companies; awards and prizes; relationship with distribution and exhibition sector; producers of shorts, documentaries, fiction; sourcing content (book fairs, theatre productions); content ownership; piracy; private funding, sponsorship, equity versus public funding; Deadline Deadline for submission of full papers: 10 November, 2009 Guidelines and submission information Articles should be between 4000 and 6000 words can be submitted using the online submission system: http://widescreenjournal.org/index.php/journal/about/submissions Wide Screen adheres to a strict double blind review, which is defined here: http://widescreenjournal.org/index.php/journal/about/editorialPolicies#peerReviewProcess Any questions/enquiries should be sent to Dorota Ostrowska ( D.Ostrowska at bbk.ac.uk) and Graham Roberts (G.Roberts at ljmu.ac.uk) About Wide Screen Wide Screen is a peer-reviewed open access academic journal of screen studies that encompasses a multi-disciplinary approach and is devoted to the critical study of cinema and television from historical, theoretical, political, and aesthetic perspectives. From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Jul 17 15:33:23 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:33:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran Discussions on the Reader-List (I) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8d12eea42bca5eeb9885f8b97d3a845c@sarai.net> Dear Junaid,  Many thanks for your excellent rejoinders to my posting. I agree with much of what you have said. But a few clarifications are in order. I hope I can make sense while I write this, hurriedly. This is written in the spirit of a general response to your remarks rather than as a detailed rejoinder. I do not believe that Iran under the Shah was paradise. I think that the Shah's regime represented the worst form of tyranny possible. Autocratic, brutal, cynical, and totally alienated from the experiences of the majority of the people. I have no regrets at all about the fact that the Shah of Iran had to flee his domain. I wish he had fled much earlier. I refuse however to believe that the hijacking of the Iranian revolution by Ayatollah Khomeini and his camp followers represents a great step forward. I think it was a great and tragic step backwards. The Iranian revolution of 1979 was not begun by the Mullahs of Qom, it was ended by them. If anything, despite the rhetorical flourishes of the Khomeini dispensation, I have absolutely no doubt about the fact that the Islamic Republic represented an active counter-revolution. The deep structures of the Iranian state as built up by the Shah, especially the dreaded SAVAK, remained untouched, it just became the VEVAK. An elderly Iranian dissident friend now living in Exile once spoke to me of the way in which the SAVAK officers who had tailed them through the Shah years turned up again like bad pennies, except that some of them now sported neatly trimmed beards. The Iranian revolutionary upsurge of 1979 was in some ways short circuited by the subsequent structures of the Islamic Republic, just as the revolutionary upsurge of 1917 in Russia was to a large extent subverted by the structures put in place by the Stalinist faction of the Bolshevik party from the early to mid 1920s in Russia. You speak of the referendum that called for the Islamic Republic, yet neglect to mention that the entire 'Velayat-e-Faqih' system of governance, which effectively imposed a clerical dictatorship under the masquerade of republican democracy was introduced into the constitutional structures, not through debate and discussion, but through a kind of sleight of hand, subverting forever, thereby, any possibility that the Islamic Republic ever had of acquiring the semblence of what even some believed naively to be the beginnings of an 'Islamic Democracy'. And no, the 'Guardians Council' and the 'Supreme Leader' put in place by the 'Velayat e Faqih' are not toothless 'advisors'. They control the military, the 'revolutionary guards', the all powerful intelligence ministry, and the commanding heights of the economy - through the bonyads or foundations. Which is why, the disastrous transformation of the defensive measures into the 'offensive' war, that Khomeini decreed, mirroring Saddam Hussain, which plunged Iran and Iraq further into the most meaningless war of the middle east, overruling saner counsel even from within his own regime. One does not have to be beholden to Tsarism to be critical of Stalin, just as one does not have to be a partisan of the Pahlevi dynasty to be critical of the regime of the Islamic Republic. To suggest that this is the case is to be disingenuous. And I know that you have no desire to be disingenuous. However, the fact remains, that the land reform measures introduced during the Shah's regime (and I have no doubt that they were introduced cynically) did empower large sections of the rural population, to the extent that they could stand up to his oppression. I have also no doubt about the fact that some of these measures were sought to be reversed as 'un-Islamic' in the Islamic Republic. An analogy closer to home might be useful here. The CPI(M) led government of West Bengal did implement substantial land reform in the period following 1977 (exactly as the Sheikh Abdullah dispensation had done in Jammu and Kashmir in the 1950s). The same CPI(M) led government sought to subvert the achivements of land reform with its disastrous imaginations in Singur and Nandigram. It was the population that benefited from land reforms that was able to stand up to, and resist  theoppression of the CPI(M), in West Bengal. This does not mean that I think that the CPI(M) in West Bengal (or for that matter, the National Conference in Kashmir, which had once pursued a similar course) is a progressive force. The fact is, both acted as transmitters and channels of popular sentiment for a period, and took advantage of the same. The Shah of Iran, Indira Gandhi, Mao Zedong, Stalin and Hitler did the same. This does not make me endorse their politics.  So, my criticism of the Khomeini-Khameini-Ahmadinejad formation cannot be legitimately read as an endorsement of the Shah and the Pahlevi dynasty.  I agree with you when you say that Iran is a normal country, it is not a spectacular exception. Iran is like India, like the United States, like France, like Israel, like Cuba. And precisely because we use a set of standards to develop a critique of politics in these states, we have no reason to abandon those criteria when it comes to Iran. Iran is a rich country, much richer than India, and our awareness of what poverty means in Iran has to be seen in the context of what poverty means in other relatively well off countries. I think the sight of malnutrition and inner city degradation in the United States is actually far more shocking than the absolute indices of poverty in India, and for similar reasons, I am convinced that the data relevant to Iran shows great reasons for concern. But let me be clearer on what I mean as the refusal to toe the line of an 'Iranian' exceptionalism. For example, i think the nuclear agendas of the (successive) governments of Iran, Israel and India are equally worthy of criticism, as are their abysmal human rights records. The Israeli state's nuclear weapons programme is a far greater threat to peace and stability in the middle east than Iran's, simply because it is at a far more advanced state. Israel is an effectively weaponized nuclear power, Iran is not yet one. So, I have no doubt at all that those (in the US, India and elsewhere) who scream about the possibility of a 'nuclearized' Iran and ignore Israel, are guilty of the most profound hypocrisy. Nor am I unaware of the fact that one of the longest standing prisoners of conscience in the middle east is the Israeli engineer, Mordechai Vanunu, who acted as a whistle-blower on the Israeli state's nuclear agenda. What I refuse to do is to make an exception of Iran, because it is Iran. Exactly as I refuse to make an exception of India, or for that matter of Israel (as many people, both on the right, and some on the left do, on the grounds that to criticize the policies of the State of Israel is to fall lapse into anti-semitism - I have no such illusions). If Golda Meir said 'There are no Palestinians' or if Sardar Patel expressed downright racist sentiments about the people of the North East in India, or if Ahmadinejad doubts the nature and reality of the Shoah, then each of these are equally worthy of condemnation on the grounds of their inherent and implicit racial prejudice.  As for Ahmadinejad's 'anti-semitism', i am not one of those who deduce it from his repetition of the grandiose sentiments of Ayatollah Khomeini (about 'effacing the regime that occupies Jerusalem from the pages of time') which has been mistranslated, as you correctly point out, as 'wiping Israel off the map'. Rather, my understanding of Ahmadinejad's anti-semitism has to do with his systematic 'holocaust denial' to bolster which, he has no hesitation in organizing international conferences with revisionist neo-nazi 'historians' and Klu Klux Klan eminences. I totally agree with you that to speak of the death of Neda Agha Soltan, and to remain silent, about the death of Sheik Aziz in Kashmir, is hypocrisy. But, unfortunately, (or fortunately) that is not a charge that can be levelled at my door. I remember writing about the killing of Sheik Abdul Aziz on this list (and much else besides) and elsewhere. So, I am not exactly the kind of person who focuses on Iran in order to avoid looking closely at what goes on closer to home. I have no doubt at all that much of those who are willing to shed tears for Iran are happily content to look away when it comes to what happens in Palestine or in Kashmir. But precisely because of this, we, who are acutely aware of what happens in Palestine or in Kashmir, and speak of it openly, must not be silent when it comes to Iran. To do would be to mirror the hypocrisy of the generations of Indian communists who would use every occasion to remind you of the oppression of workers in the west, and choose to remain silent about the repression of workers in (then) Poland, or for that matter, the USSR. I will write in greater detail later, especially on the role of religion in the Iranian revolution. But meanwhile, I wanted to quicly begin to address some of the other questions you have raised. I am not, as you know, an Indian nationalist by any means, I do however, recognize the difference between the utter two facedness of the elites of states like Pakistan, Nigeria and Iran, and large sections of what gets loosely described as the Indian middle classes. I have observed, over many years, the utter and insulated indifference that many (not all) of my Pakistani peers have had towards their own milieu and society. The tears that they shed over what happens as a result of the Indian occupation of Kashmir are meaningless, because they are happy to benefit, when necessary, from their feudal contempt of the large masses of the Pakistani population, with whom, they have nothing in common. They do not care for the way Balochistan is pillaged, or the wretchedness that prevails in the interiors of Sindh And, while I have remained the harshest critic of the Indian nation state's actions, I also know that there is a difference between a class that has fattened itself and its ambitions over successive long periods of a ruthlessly sustained military dictatorship (as has happened in Pakistan) and the way things have developed, over the decades, in India. The lethargy, the utter disconnectedness, the feudal non-chalance of the thin wedge of the Pakistani upper middle classes, with which I have more than a passing familiarity, I know, for a fact, that no greater tragedy can befall the people of Kashmir, than having their servitude transferred from Indian to Pakistani chains. This is not to exonerate or endorse or praise the Indian middle class,( i would not even dream of doing so) just to acknowledge, that the structures that govern India today have less need for a day to day level of hypocrisy and two facedness on the part of the vague category called the Middle Class Indian. In India, we do not hide our whisky much, not anymore, in Iran, the alchoholic Mullahs who pretend to be teetotallers, do. They sip their chosen brew from stainless steel decanters, or behind locked doors, or run enormous bootlegging operations from the security of their enormous villas. This does not mean that people in India are better or worse, it just means that they have less reason to be opaque on several counts. The inordinate propensity to consume large amounts of bad whisky being only one of them.  Finally , let me end on a personal note. I actually have a deep and abiding engagement with Iran. The problem is not that I 'hate' Iran, but that maybe, that I am much too concerned about it for my own good. Because I feel close to the historical experiences and the cultural circumstances of the Iranian people. That is why I 'hate' Ahmadinejad, and have always felt the deepest rage when I think of Khomeini, of the Shah of Iran (and yes, i think Natanyahu should also be tried as a war criminal) This sentiment, for whatever it is worth, is not different from my utter contempt, hatred and anger with regard to the legacies of Stalin or Mao.  As a person who identifies with the left, I have a much greater intensity of hatred for Stalin and Mao than someone who has notionally nothing to do with the left. I feel that Stalinism violates me, because I identify with the left. For very similar reasons, because of my affinity with Iran, the regime of the Islamic Republic is anathema to me. I wish to see the Islamic Republic destroyed, just as I wish to see Zionism made irrelevant and meaningless, because I want to believe in a future worth fighting for, for my friends who are Iranian, Israeli and Palestinian, and for their children. And for the same reasons, for the sake of your future and mine, I want both Indian and Kashmiri nationalisms to be recognized as being the mediocre, moth-eaten expressions of our common (yet divergent) servitude. If you get rid of the chains of the Indian occupation, we know that it will (in some ways) liberate us as well.  I believe that those of us who are critical of empire and domination, must be even more vigilant of the charlatans who sometimes mimic our own  anxieties. We cannot afford to let them down.That is why, for me, being critical of George Bush entails a rigorous rejection of the rhetoric of Ahmadinejad and Chavez. That is why, being militantly opposed to the Indian occupation of Kashmir, also, for me, entails a total and absolute rejection of the reactionary politics of Kashmiri nationalism as it is represented by Syed Ali Shah Geelani. I have no hesitation on being categorical on these issues. One position, in my opinion, demands the other.  warm regards, and, as ever, in solidarity Shuddha On 1:37 am 07/17/09 Junaid wrote: > Dear Shuddha, > > Thank you for the informative post on Iran. In that short post you > have managed well to marshal together many facts and figures to > support your well-argued conclusions. You have also summarized nicely > the main issues that have emerged from the debates here so far. But as > we said earlier, our differences on Iran shall remain, mostly on > issues of how to interpret “facts,” the perspectives through which one > sees Iran, and not least of all on how Iran is a perfect example of “a > discourse” which to an incredible level has lost its bearing in > reality. > From jcm at ata.org.pe Fri Jul 17 16:28:36 2009 From: jcm at ata.org.pe (Jose-Carlos Mariategui) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:58:36 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Third Text: Special Issue on MEDIA ARTS: Practice, Institutions and Histories Message-ID: <6BDA2AB4-8278-4655-93A5-29428C685246@ata.org.pe> Dear Friends: A Special Issue of Third Text has just been published. It is an update on the development and current state of new media arts in some "under-represented" regions and contexts of the world. You can find it in bookshops, libraries and online (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title ~db=all~content=g912391250). Third Text (http://www.thirdtext.com/) Critical Perspectives on Contemporary Art & Culture Volume 23 Issue 3 2009 MEDIA ARTS: Practice, Institutions and Histories Guest Editors: Sean Cubitt, Jose-Carlos Mariategui and Gunalan Nadarajan ISSN: 1475-5297 (electronic) 0952-8822 (paper) Contents Social Formations of Global Media Art José-Carlos Mariátegui; Sean Cubitt; Gunalan Nadarajan Taking a Line for a Walk, from the Abbasid Caliphate to Vector Graphics Laura U. Marks Pou Rewa: The Liquid Post, Maori Go Digital? Maree Mills Agents for Change: The Contemporary Art Centres of the Soros Foundation and C3 Nina Czegledy; Andrea Szekeres Old Contexts for New: Media Cultures (in Russia) Olga Goriunova Electronic Image: Identities and the Experience of Globalisation in the International Festival of Electronic Art – Videobrasil Eduardo de Jesus New Technologies in Central American Contemporary Art: A Partial Archaeology and Some Critical Appreciations from the Institutional Realm Ernesto Calvo; María José Monge Electronic Art in Peru: The Discovery of an Invisible Territory in the Country of the Incas Mauricio Delfín; Miguel Zegarra Chinese Contemporary Video Art Pi Li Excavating Images on the Border Hannah Feldman Analogue and Digital Anecdotes and Artworks from South Africa Marcus Neustetter Revisiting the Pirate Kingdom Ravi Sundaram From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 17 18:01:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:31:59 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Unique ID card to end duplicate identity, says Nilekani- 148 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907170531r56963a95xa010de442f9636f8@mail.gmail.com> Dear All The view that Unique Identity Card (UIDC) will 'finally' end all systemic faults of all other cards is being slowly established as a 'fact' not by introducing systems or procedures or giving evidence of the presence of such a technology but by vocalizing this view in as many different forums as possible. There are those who think that these kinds of pronouncements must be making the likes of Hitler so proud these days...he must be laughing in his grave...it seems as if the Third Reich is resurrecting itself. Nazi's who first introduced systematic coding of human beings as numbers and made it a point to imprint them on the body of those whom they hated and thought ill of...had also perfected the subtle art of mobilizing public opinion. The equation of which went something like this... lie+repetition=Truth or something like that....I forget what it actually was...anyways... Why does it not surprise one that all the key players use mass media to create an impression that UID is a worthy exercise. Why don't someone tells them, that numbers are nothing new to Indians, so what's so unique about UIDC? Ration numbers, PAN numbers, Passport Numbers, Bank account Numbers, Enrollment Numbers, Birth and Death registration Numbers, Phone numbers etc have all been given to Indians in the past 60 years and have all been duplicated, forged, faked and made redundant. Should someone not consider that for a every single paisa spent on these grand exercises there are opportunity costs, which must also be considered? Should The Congress Party not realize this? There is a view that we urgently need money for toilets, roads, sanitation, primary education, and mass housing and perhaps we do not need money so urgently for plastic tokens. This view is, however, cynically snubbed by putting forth another view that UIDC will make sure that as far as the role social obligation is concerned the Government can be made to comply. But why does no one wants to take into consideration that in the last 60 years we have not being able to make our Sarkaar comply even with having unique numbers? and then there are times when one 'feels' for all those who think that digital data is worthy, as opposed to manual data, because they must have not heard any stories related to banks using digital data and mixing up information or credit card companies overcharging, or phone companies forgetting data folders and so on. And now..Nandan Saheb Rehmatullah is saying the UIDC will 'END' duplication... :) We wait with baited breath... Warm regards Taha http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20090713/864/ttc-unique-id-card-to-end-duplicate-iden.html Unique ID card to end duplicate identity, says Nilekani Mon, Jul 13 04:46 PM Bangalore, July 13 (IANS) Nandan Nilekani, chairperson of the newly set-up Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) to provide each Indian an identity card, said Monday a major problem at present is duplicate identity in many of the government systems, leading to fraud. The new authority would help end ID card duplication by creating a network of verification and authentication, Nilekani, co-founder of IT major Infosys, told reporters after meeting Karnataka Chief Minister B.S. Yeddyurappa. 'A major problem today with identity is that many (government) systems have lot of duplicates leading to fraud,' he said. Yeddyurappa facilitated Nilekani on his new assignment. Nilekani quit the Infosys co-chairman's post as also from the company's board on July 9 following his appointment as head of the UIAI. The UIAI would create a national database of Indian residents. It would use bio-metrics, fingerprints and other methods necessary to ensure people have a unique number. This would end the problem of duplicates, he added. On the time the authority would need to complete the process, Nilekani said: 'First I have to find an office.' A hunt is on at Delhi for office premises for the new authority, which will function under India's Planning Commission, which is headed by the prime minister. Indo Asian News Service From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 17 18:39:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:09:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UIDAI in Pranab Mukherjee's budget speech- 149 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907170609j489d1b00v42e04896e28f0c75@mail.gmail.com> Dear All The views presented below relates to the official position of the Government of India, as expressed in the Budget speech of Jenab Pranab Mukherjee, Minister of Finance, which was delivered on July 6, 2009 . I have plucked relevant sections from the budget speech, which relates to two broad themes- the idea of an identity card and the idea of national security. I have divided them as follows- first one refers to schemes where biometric cards or national identity cards could play a crucial role. The second refers to the kind of focus which the GOI is willing to invest on what it construes as 'National Security'. The third section gives a broad picture of where the GOI will be spending the public money. While the last section could be loosely termed as -rhetorical- but nonetheless is very necessary to measure the goodness of intent of our Government. Warm regards Taha (Section-1) Health 59.Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana (RSBY) was operationalised last year.The initial response has been very good.More than 46 lakh BPL families in eighteen States and UTs have been issued biometric smart cards.This scheme empowers poor families by giving them freedom of choice for using health care services from an extensive list of hospitals including private hospitals. Government proposes to bring all BPL families under this scheme. An amount of Rs.350 crore, marking 40% increase over the previous allocation, is being provided in 2009-10 Budget Estimates. TOWARDS BUILDING ACCOUNTABLE INSTITUTIONS Improving delivery of public services 64.The setting up of the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) is a major step in improving governance with regard to delivery of public services. This project is very close to my heart. I am happy to note that this project also marks the beginning of an era where the top private sector talent in India steps forward to take the responsibility for implementing projects of vital national importance.The UIDAI will set up an online data base with identity and biometric details of Indian residents and provide enrolment and verification services across the country. The first set of unique identity numbers will be rolled out in 12 to 18 months. I have proposed a provision of Rs.120 crore for this project. (Section-2) National Security 65.For modernisation of Police force in the States, an additional amount of Rs.430 crore is being proposed, over and above the provisions in the Interim Budget.The Government has also sanctioned special risk/hardship allowances to the personnel of Para Military Forces at par with Defence forces. Provisions for payment of these allowances are also being proposed in the Budget. 66.For strengthening Border Management, an additional amount of Rs.2,284 crore, over and above the provision in the Interim Budget, is being provided for construction of fences, roads, flood-lights on the international borders. http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_full-text-of-pranab-mukherjee-s-budget-speech-part-i_1271537-all (Section-3) 74.The Budget Estimates 2009-10 provide for a total expenditure of Rs.10,20,838 crore consisting of Rs.6,95,689 crore towards Non Plan and Rs.3,25,149 crore towards Plan expenditure. 75. The increase in Non Plan expenditure is mainly on account of the implementation of the Sixth Central Pay Commission recommendations, increased food subsidy and higher interest payment arising out of the larger fiscal deficit in 2008-09. Interest payments are estimated at Rs.2,25,511 crore constituting about 36% of Non Plan revenue expenditure in BE 2009-10. The total provision for subsidies are up from Rs.71,431 crore in BE 2008-09 to Rs.1,11,276 crore in BE 2009-10. The outlay on Defence has gone up from Rs.1,05,600 crore in BE 2008-09 to Rs.1,41,703 crore in BE 2009-10. (Section-4) Mahatma Gandhi said and I quote, "Democracy is the art and science of mobilizing the entire physical, economic and spiritual resources of various sections of the people in the service of the common good of all." This is precisely what we will have to do. With strong hearts, enlightened minds and willing hands, we will have to overcome all odds and remove all obstacles to create a brave new India of our dreams. http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_full-text-of-pranab-mukherjee-s-budget-speech-part-ii_1271540 From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 19:25:19 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:25:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] on krishna's chariot stands shikhandi In-Reply-To: <20090713115752.l3jlhbut1cs80sw0@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00907110134h647f4a88q8a9a1207087263fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110619h338df601i9e24628604f56f8e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110635n3ec008f8s298c32ac460e703@mail.gmail.com> <20090713115752.l3jlhbut1cs80sw0@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7271ec560907170655w41df555el80a7c6ad246d1129@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, This one paragraph is golden in thoughts of democratic life, empathy and inclusive governance without discrimination.---- "This war is not about fathers or sons. This is not even about men or women, Arjuna. This is about dharma. And dharma is about empathy. Empathy is about inclusion. Even now, he excludes Shikhandi’s feelings – all he cares about his version of the law. Shoot him now. Rid the world of this old school of thought so that a new world can be reconstructed.” Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:27 PM, A Khanna wrote: > hi all, > > in the context of the claims of the likes of baba ramdev and bp > singhal on queerphobia as a marker of 'indian culture', this > interesting piece by devdutt patnaik. > > akshay > > http://devdutt.com/on-krishnas-chariot-stands-shikhandi > > > On Krishna’s chariot stands Shikhandi > > Published in Sunday Midday, Mumbai, 12 July 2009 > > 15It was the ninth night of the war at Kurukshetra. The exact midpoint > of the legendary 18-day bloodbath. Not the start, not the end, but the > middle. The war had been inconclusive. Sometimes the Kauravas led by > the old sire Bhisma had the upper hand; sometimes the Pandavas led by > the young warlord, Dhristadhyumna, Draupadi’s twin brother, had the > upper hand. A see-saw that was going nowhere. > > “Bhisma loves us too much to defeat us,” said the Pandavas. > > “Yet not enough to let us win,” reminded Krishna. “He must die, if > dharma has to be established.” But Bhisma had been given a boon by his > father that he could choose the time of his death. No one could > therefore kill him. “If we cannot kill him, we must at least > immobilize him.” > > “But no one can defeat him,” said the Pandavas. “Even the great > Parashurama could not overpower him in a duel. So long he holds a > weapon in hand he is invincible.” > > “Then we must make him lower his bow,” said Krishna. > > “He will never lower his bow before any armed man.” > > “What about an armed woman?” > > “A woman? On the battlefield?” sneered the Pandavas, forgetting they > themselves worshipped Durga, the goddess of war and victory. “But it > is against dharma to let women hold weapons and step on the > battlefield.” > > “Who said so?” asked Krishna. > > “Bhisma says so. Dharma says so.” > > “Dharma also says that old men should retire and make way for the next > generation so that the earth’s resources are not exploited by too many > generations. But Bhisma did the very opposite. He renounced his right > to marry, so that his old father could resume the householder’s life,” > argued Krishna. > > “He was being an obedient son.” > > “He was indulging his old father at the cost of the earth. That vow > spiraled events that has led to this war. It is time to be rid of him, > by force or cunning, if necessary. We must find someone before whom > the old patriarch will lower his bow. If not a woman, then someone who > is not quite a man.” > > “What about Shikhandi!” said Dhristadhyumna. “He is my elder brother. > He was born a woman. But my father, Draupada, was told by the Rishis > that he would one day become a man. Though born with female genital > organs, Shikhandi was raised a son, taught warfare and statecraft. He > was even given a wife. On his wedding night, the wife, daughter of > king Hiranyavarna of Dasharna, was horrified to discover that her > husband was actually a woman. My father tried to explain that actually > Shikhandi was a man with a female body and that Rishis had told him he > would someday acquire a male body. The woman refused to listen. She > screamed and ran to her father and her father raised an army and > threatened to destroy our city. A distraught Shikhandi went to the > forest, holding himself responsible for the crisis, intent on killing > himself. There he met a Yaksha called Sthunakarna who took pity on him > and gave him his manhood for one night. With the Yaksha’s manhood, > Shikhandi made love to a concubine sent by his father-in-law and > proved he was no woman. The wife was therefore forced to return. Now, > it so happened, that Kubera, king of the Yakshas, was furious with > what Sthunakarna had done and so cursed Sthunakarna that he would not > get his manhood back so long as Shikhandi was alive. As a result what > was supposed to be with him for one night has remained with him till > this moment. My elder brother, Shikhandi, born with a female body, has > a Yaksha’s manhood right now. What is he, Krishna? Man or woman?” > > Krishna knew things were more complex. Shikhandi, may have been raised > as a man and may have acquired a manhood later in life, but in his > previous life, he was a woman called Amba, whose life Bhisma had > ruined. Bhisma had abducted her along with her sisters and forced them > to marry, not him, but his weakling of a brother, Vichitravirya (a > name that means ‘queer masculinity’ or ‘odd manliness’). When she > begged Bhisma to let her marry the man she loved, he let her go. But > the lover refused to marry Amba, now soiled by contact with another > man (Bhisma). Distraught she returned, only to have Vichitravirya turn > her away, and Bhisma shrugging helplessly. “When you have taken the > vow of never being with a woman, what gave you the right to abduct > me,” she yelled. Bhisma ignored her. Amba begged Parashurama, the > great warrior, to kill Bhisma but he failed. Exasperated, irritated, > she prayed to Shiva. “Make me the cause of his death,” she begged. > Shiva blessed her – it would be so, but only in her next life. Amba > immediately leapt into a pyre eager to accelerate the process. > > “I think, Shikhandi should ride into the battlefield on my chariot. > Let Arjuna stand behind him,” said Krishna. The tenth day dawned. The > chariot rolled out. Behind Krishna stood the strange creature, neither > man nor woman, or perhaps both, or neither, and behind him, Arjuna. > > “You bring a woman into this battlefield, before me,” roared Bhisma > seeing Shikhandi. “This is adharma. I refuse to fight.” > > Krishna retorted in his calm melodious voice, “You see her as a woman > because she was born with a female body. You see her as a woman > because in her heart she is Amba. But I see her as a man because that > is how her father raised her. I see her as a man because she has a > Yaksha’s manhood with which he has consummated his marriage. Whose > point of view is right, Bhisma?” > > “Mine,” said Bhisma. > > “You are always right, are you not, Bhisma? When you allowed your old > father to remarry, when you abducted brides for your weak brother, > when clung to future generation after future generations like a leech, > trying to set things right. There is always a logic you find to > justify your point of view. So now, Shikhandi is a woman – an > unworthy opponent. That’s your view, not Shikhandi’s view. He wishes > to fight you.” > > “I will not fight this woman,” so saying Bhisma lowered his bow > without even looking towards Shikhandi. > > 17“Shoot him now, Shikhandi. Shoot him, now, Arjuna,” said Krishna, > “Shoot hundreds of arrows so that they puncture every inch of this old > man’s flesh. Pin him to ground, immobilize him so that he can no > longer immobilize the war.” > > “But he is like a father to me,” argued Arjuna. > > “This war is not about fathers or sons. This is not even about men or > women, Arjuna. This is about dharma. And dharma is about empathy. > Empathy is about inclusion. Even now, he excludes Shikhandi’s feelings > – all he cares about his version of the law. Shoot him now. Rid the > world of this old school of thought so that a new world can be > reconstructed.” > > And so Arjuna released a volley of arrows. Hundreds of arrows > punctured every limb of Bhisma’s body, his hands, his legs, his trunk, > his thigh, till the grandsire fell like a giant Banyan tree in the > middle of a forest. It is said that the earth would not accept him for > he had lived too long – over four generations instead of just two. It > is said the sky would not accept him because he had not fathered > children and repaid his debt to ancestors. So he remained suspended > mid-air by Arjuna’s arrows. > > With the fall of Bhisma, the war moved in favor of the Pandavas. Nine > days later, the Kauravas were defeated and dharma had been established. > > Without doubt, Shikhandi changed the course of the war and played a > pivotal role in the establishing of dharma. He was without doubt a key > tool for Krishna. A cynic would say, Shikhandi was used by Krishna. A > devotee will argue, Krishna made even Shikhandi useful. But his story > is almost always overlooked in retellings of the great epic > Mahabharata, or retold rather hurriedly, avoid the details. Authors > have gone so far as to conveniently call the Sthunakarna episode a > later interpolation, hence of no consequence. > > Shikhandi embodies all queer people – from gays to lesbians to Hijras > to transgendered people to hermaphrodites to bisexuals. Like their > stories, his story remains invisible. But the great author, Vyasa, > located this story between the ninth night and the tenth day, right in > the middle of the war, between the start and the finish. This was > surely not accidental. It was a strategic pointer to things that > belong neither here nor there. This is how the ancients gave voice to > the non-heterosexual discourse. > > Shikhandi embarrases us today. Sthunakarna who willingly gave up his > manhood frightens us today. But neither Shikhandi nor Shthunkarna > embarrassed or frightened Krishna or Vyas. Both included Shikhandi in > the great narrative. But modern writers have chosen to exclude him. > That is the story of homosexuals in human society. Homosexuals have > always existed in God’s world but more often than not manmade society > has chosen to ignore, suppress, ridicule, label them aberrants, > diseased, to be swept under carpets and gagged by laws such as 377. > They have been equated with rapists and molesters, simply because they > can only love differently. > > Indian society, however, has been a bit different from most others. > Like all cultures, Indian culture for sure paid more importance to the > dominant heterosexual discourse. But unlike most cultures, Indian > culture did not condemn or invalidate the minority non-heterosexual > discourse altogether. Hence the tale of Shikhandi, placed so > strategically. Hence the tale of Bhangashvana, retold by none other > than Bhisma to the Pandavas, after the war before he chose to die. > > Yudhishtira asked, “Grandfather, who gets more sexual pleasure – men > or women? What is sweeter to the ear – the sound of father or mother?” > > Bhisma replied, “No one knows really. Except perhaps Bhangashvana, the > only one who was both man and woman. Bhangashvana was a great king, > with many wives and many sons. Indra cursed him to be a woman. So he > lived as a woman, took a husband and bore him children. He was thus a > man to his wife and a woman to his husband. He thus had two sets of > children, one who called him ‘father’ and another who called him > ‘mother’. He alone is qualified to answer your questions.” Such ideas > will never find mention in most scriptures around the world. But they > are part of our cultural inheritance. > > Clearly many keepers of culture have not heard the stories of > Shikhandi, or Bhangashvana or of Yuvanashva, the king who accidentally > became pregnant and delivered the great Mandhata, or of the two queens > who made love to each other to produce a child without bones (bones > being the contribution of sperm, according to mythology), or of > Mohini, the female form of Vishnu, who enchanted even Shiva, the great > hermit. Clearly they have chosen to ignore that every year, in > Brahmotsavam festival, the image of the Lord Venkateshwara Balaji, who > is Vishnu on earth, is dressed in female garments reminding us all of > Mohini. Clearly they are oblivious of how Shrinathji in Nathdwara is > lovingly bedecked with a sari, the stri-vesha or women’s attire, in > memory of the time he wore Radha’s clothes to appease her. Clearly > they are not aware of Gopeshwarji of Vrindavan, Shiva who took the > form of a milkmaid so that he could dance the raas-leela with Krishna. > And they certainly have turned a blind eye to the rooster-riding > Bahucharji, of Gujarat, patron goddess of many Hijras. > > Western religions have, and will, look upon Hinduism’s cross-dressing > gods as vulgar and perverted. The British mocked us so much during the > Raj that we went into apology and denial. Now an entire generation > does not even know about these tales and these deities and these > rituals. Westernization did not change bedroom habits; it has led to > an embarrassed denial of our sacred scriptures. > > One thing we must grant the homosexual – he has united the > cantankerous right wing. He has done what the constitution of India > could not do – bring the radical Islamic cleric, the saffron robed > yogis, the Bible-bashing clergyman to same side of the table. Together > these self-proclaimed guardians of culture would like the homosexuals > to be made invisible once more. > > Baba Ramdevji would for sure celebrate the celibacy of Bhisma. If he > would have his way, he would, perhaps, drag Shikhandi to the mental > asylum and teach him breathing exercises until the Yaksha’s appendage > drops and he/she chokes and gasps into heterosexuality. But not > Krishna. On Krishna’s chariot, Shikhandi – as he/she is – will always > be welcomed. > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 22:17:55 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:17:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] on krishna's chariot stands shikhandi In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907170655w41df555el80a7c6ad246d1129@mail.gmail.com> References: <702664.45555.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690907110222v11a544cbg8876c365c05d2c99@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110257y7778efber101791baae1ba0b0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110439i8fccc88jc3e77548f4d2315@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110545w6650e54ye96317d4784b4393@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690907110619h338df601i9e24628604f56f8e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907110635n3ec008f8s298c32ac460e703@mail.gmail.com> <20090713115752.l3jlhbut1cs80sw0@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> <7271ec560907170655w41df555el80a7c6ad246d1129@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70907170947j23ce27ecue261df491f316cb5@mail.gmail.com> Dear all kioun na firdos ko dozak mein milayan yaarab, saair kay vastay thodi se jagah aur sahi Ghalib Addressed to God, ( the creater of all ): let us mix Heaven and Hell, enabling us to walk a little more freely. that is how i thought of Shikhandi. why not to mix this hetro and homo into one, a flexible one, so that it is easy to switich from one to another, here, by this i dont mean to annihilate the difference, that essential one between the two, but if the reality of this difference obfuscates, it should end, unless it is lucid ... characters like shikhandi were always there, no doubt about that, but what a pity that Krishna used him as a weapon, only.. if i was the writer of the epic, i would have blended Krishana into Shikhandi as one, One Ardhnareshwar without a chance to split... Dear Rajendra, forget wars, even in the epic, we see how sad were victorious Pandavas at the end of war. forget the restoration of Dharma , there is nothing original which we need to restore, Fundamentalists are trying their best to restore their Dharma,,but it only genertes sarrows for those who become victims, like Ghandhari who lost all her children and cursed Krishana for his role in the war The trouble is that Govt. as state representative of a country is somehow run by blind Dhatrashtras, always, and any alternative to that is war, which does not work .one Dhatrashtra replaces another, then another... The only answer is non-violence and love all the debates around Homo and Hetro woud disappear with more love is On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > Dear All, > > This one paragraph is golden in thoughts of democratic life, empathy and > inclusive governance without discrimination.---- > > "This war is not about fathers or sons. This is not even about men or > women, Arjuna. This is about dharma. And dharma is about empathy. > Empathy is about inclusion. Even now, he excludes Shikhandi’s feelings > – all he cares about his version of the law. Shoot him now. Rid the > world of this old school of thought so that a new world can be > reconstructed.” > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:27 PM, A Khanna wrote: > >> hi all, >> >> in the context of the claims of the likes of baba ramdev and bp >> singhal on queerphobia as a marker of 'indian culture', this >> interesting piece by devdutt patnaik. >> >> akshay >> >> http://devdutt.com/on-krishnas-chariot-stands-shikhandi >> >> >> On Krishna’s chariot stands Shikhandi >> >> Published in Sunday Midday, Mumbai, 12 July 2009 >> >> 15It was the ninth night of the war at Kurukshetra. The exact midpoint >> of the legendary 18-day bloodbath. Not the start, not the end, but the >> middle. The war had been inconclusive. Sometimes the Kauravas led by >> the old sire Bhisma had the upper hand; sometimes the Pandavas led by >> the young warlord, Dhristadhyumna, Draupadi’s twin brother, had the >> upper hand. A see-saw that was going nowhere. >> >> “Bhisma loves us too much to defeat us,” said the Pandavas. >> >> “Yet not enough to let us win,” reminded Krishna. “He must die, if >> dharma has to be established.” But Bhisma had been given a boon by his >> father that he could choose the time of his death. No one could >> therefore kill him. “If we cannot kill him, we must at least >> immobilize him.” >> >> “But no one can defeat him,” said the Pandavas. “Even the great >> Parashurama could not overpower him in a duel. So long he holds a >> weapon in hand he is invincible.” >> >> “Then we must make him lower his bow,” said Krishna. >> >> “He will never lower his bow before any armed man.” >> >> “What about an armed woman?” >> >> “A woman? On the battlefield?” sneered the Pandavas, forgetting they >> themselves worshipped Durga, the goddess of war and victory. “But it >> is against dharma to let women hold weapons and step on the >> battlefield.” >> >> “Who said so?” asked Krishna. >> >> “Bhisma says so. Dharma says so.” >> >> “Dharma also says that old men should retire and make way for the next >> generation so that the earth’s resources are not exploited by too many >> generations. But Bhisma did the very opposite. He renounced his right >> to marry, so that his old father could resume the householder’s life,” >> argued Krishna. >> >> “He was being an obedient son.” >> >> “He was indulging his old father at the cost of the earth. That vow >> spiraled events that has led to this war. It is time to be rid of him, >> by force or cunning, if necessary. We must find someone before whom >> the old patriarch will lower his bow. If not a woman, then someone who >> is not quite a man.” >> >> “What about Shikhandi!” said Dhristadhyumna. “He is my elder brother. >> He was born a woman. But my father, Draupada, was told by the Rishis >> that he would one day become a man. Though born with female genital >> organs, Shikhandi was raised a son, taught warfare and statecraft. He >> was even given a wife. On his wedding night, the wife, daughter of >> king Hiranyavarna of Dasharna, was horrified to discover that her >> husband was actually a woman. My father tried to explain that actually >> Shikhandi was a man with a female body and that Rishis had told him he >> would someday acquire a male body. The woman refused to listen. She >> screamed and ran to her father and her father raised an army and >> threatened to destroy our city. A distraught Shikhandi went to the >> forest, holding himself responsible for the crisis, intent on killing >> himself. There he met a Yaksha called Sthunakarna who took pity on him >> and gave him his manhood for one night. With the Yaksha’s manhood, >> Shikhandi made love to a concubine sent by his father-in-law and >> proved he was no woman. The wife was therefore forced to return. Now, >> it so happened, that Kubera, king of the Yakshas, was furious with >> what Sthunakarna had done and so cursed Sthunakarna that he would not >> get his manhood back so long as Shikhandi was alive. As a result what >> was supposed to be with him for one night has remained with him till >> this moment. My elder brother, Shikhandi, born with a female body, has >> a Yaksha’s manhood right now. What is he, Krishna? Man or woman?” >> >> Krishna knew things were more complex. Shikhandi, may have been raised >> as a man and may have acquired a manhood later in life, but in his >> previous life, he was a woman called Amba, whose life Bhisma had >> ruined. Bhisma had abducted her along with her sisters and forced them >> to marry, not him, but his weakling of a brother, Vichitravirya (a >> name that means ‘queer masculinity’ or ‘odd manliness’). When she >> begged Bhisma to let her marry the man she loved, he let her go. But >> the lover refused to marry Amba, now soiled by contact with another >> man (Bhisma). Distraught she returned, only to have Vichitravirya turn >> her away, and Bhisma shrugging helplessly. “When you have taken the >> vow of never being with a woman, what gave you the right to abduct >> me,” she yelled. Bhisma ignored her. Amba begged Parashurama, the >> great warrior, to kill Bhisma but he failed. Exasperated, irritated, >> she prayed to Shiva. “Make me the cause of his death,” she begged. >> Shiva blessed her – it would be so, but only in her next life. Amba >> immediately leapt into a pyre eager to accelerate the process. >> >> “I think, Shikhandi should ride into the battlefield on my chariot. >> Let Arjuna stand behind him,” said Krishna. The tenth day dawned. The >> chariot rolled out. Behind Krishna stood the strange creature, neither >> man nor woman, or perhaps both, or neither, and behind him, Arjuna. >> >> “You bring a woman into this battlefield, before me,” roared Bhisma >> seeing Shikhandi. “This is adharma. I refuse to fight.” >> >> Krishna retorted in his calm melodious voice, “You see her as a woman >> because she was born with a female body. You see her as a woman >> because in her heart she is Amba. But I see her as a man because that >> is how her father raised her. I see her as a man because she has a >> Yaksha’s manhood with which he has consummated his marriage. Whose >> point of view is right, Bhisma?” >> >> “Mine,” said Bhisma. >> >> “You are always right, are you not, Bhisma? When you allowed your old >> father to remarry, when you abducted brides for your weak brother, >> when clung to future generation after future generations like a leech, >> trying to set things right. There is always a logic you find to >> justify your point of view.  So now, Shikhandi is a woman – an >> unworthy opponent. That’s your view, not Shikhandi’s view. He wishes >> to fight you.” >> >> “I will not fight this woman,” so saying Bhisma lowered his bow >> without even looking towards Shikhandi. >> >> 17“Shoot him now, Shikhandi. Shoot him, now, Arjuna,” said Krishna, >> “Shoot hundreds of arrows so that they puncture every inch of this old >> man’s flesh. Pin him to ground, immobilize him so that he can no >> longer immobilize the war.” >> >> “But he is like a father to me,” argued Arjuna. >> >> “This war is not about fathers or sons. This is not even about men or >> women, Arjuna. This is about dharma. And dharma is about empathy. >> Empathy is about inclusion. Even now, he excludes Shikhandi’s feelings >> – all he cares about his version of the law. Shoot him now. Rid the >> world of this old school of thought so that a new world can be >> reconstructed.” >> >> And so Arjuna released a volley of arrows. Hundreds of arrows >> punctured every limb of Bhisma’s body, his hands, his legs, his trunk, >> his thigh, till the grandsire fell like a giant Banyan tree in the >> middle of a forest. It is said that the earth would not accept him for >> he had lived too long – over four generations instead of just two. It >> is said the sky would not accept him because he had not fathered >> children and repaid his debt to ancestors. So he remained suspended >> mid-air by Arjuna’s arrows. >> >> With the fall of Bhisma, the war moved in favor of the Pandavas. Nine >> days later, the Kauravas were defeated and dharma had been established. >> >> Without doubt, Shikhandi changed the course of the war and played a >> pivotal role in the establishing of dharma. He was without doubt a key >> tool for Krishna. A cynic would say, Shikhandi was used by Krishna. A >> devotee will argue, Krishna made even Shikhandi useful. But his story >> is almost always overlooked in retellings of the great epic >> Mahabharata, or retold rather hurriedly, avoid the details. Authors >> have gone so far as to conveniently call the Sthunakarna episode a >> later interpolation, hence of no consequence. >> >> Shikhandi embodies all queer people – from gays to lesbians to Hijras >> to transgendered people to hermaphrodites to bisexuals. Like their >> stories, his story remains invisible. But the great author, Vyasa, >> located this story between the ninth night and the tenth day, right in >> the middle of the war, between the start and the finish. This was >> surely not accidental. It was a strategic pointer to things that >> belong neither here nor there. This is how the ancients gave voice to >> the non-heterosexual discourse. >> >> Shikhandi embarrases us today. Sthunakarna who willingly gave up his >> manhood frightens us today. But neither Shikhandi nor Shthunkarna >> embarrassed or frightened Krishna or Vyas. Both included Shikhandi in >> the great narrative. But modern writers have chosen to exclude him. >> That is the story of homosexuals in human society. Homosexuals have >> always existed in God’s world but more often than not manmade society >> has chosen to ignore, suppress, ridicule, label them aberrants, >> diseased, to be swept under carpets and gagged by laws such as 377. >> They have been equated with rapists and molesters, simply because they >> can only love differently. >> >> Indian society, however, has been a bit different from most others. >> Like all cultures, Indian culture for sure paid more importance to the >> dominant heterosexual discourse. But unlike most cultures, Indian >> culture did not condemn or invalidate the minority non-heterosexual >> discourse altogether. Hence the tale of Shikhandi, placed so >> strategically. Hence the tale of Bhangashvana, retold by none other >> than Bhisma to the Pandavas, after the war before he chose to die. >> >> Yudhishtira asked, “Grandfather, who gets more sexual pleasure – men >> or women? What is sweeter to the ear – the sound of father or mother?” >> >> Bhisma replied, “No one knows really. Except perhaps Bhangashvana, the >> only one who was both man and woman. Bhangashvana was a great king, >> with many wives and many sons. Indra cursed him to be a woman. So he >> lived as a woman, took a husband and bore him children. He was thus a >> man to his wife and a woman to his husband.  He thus had two sets of >> children, one who called him ‘father’ and another who called him >> ‘mother’. He alone is qualified to answer your questions.” Such ideas >> will never find mention in most scriptures around the world. But they >> are part of our cultural inheritance. >> >> Clearly many keepers of culture have not heard the stories of >> Shikhandi, or Bhangashvana or of Yuvanashva, the king who accidentally >> became pregnant and delivered the great Mandhata, or of the two queens >> who made love to each other to produce a child without bones (bones >> being the contribution of sperm, according to mythology), or of >> Mohini, the female form of Vishnu, who enchanted even Shiva, the great >> hermit. Clearly they have chosen to ignore that every year, in >> Brahmotsavam festival, the image of the Lord Venkateshwara Balaji, who >> is Vishnu on earth, is dressed in female garments reminding us all of >> Mohini. Clearly they are oblivious of how Shrinathji in Nathdwara is >> lovingly bedecked with a sari, the stri-vesha or women’s attire, in >> memory of the time he wore Radha’s clothes to appease her. Clearly >> they are not aware of Gopeshwarji of Vrindavan, Shiva who took the >> form of a milkmaid so that he could dance the raas-leela with Krishna. >> And they certainly have turned a blind eye to the rooster-riding >> Bahucharji, of Gujarat, patron goddess of many Hijras. >> >> Western religions have, and will, look upon Hinduism’s cross-dressing >> gods as vulgar and perverted. The British mocked us so much during the >> Raj that we went into apology and denial. Now an entire generation >> does not even know about these tales and these deities and these >> rituals. Westernization did not change bedroom habits; it has led to >> an embarrassed denial of our sacred scriptures. >> >> One thing we must grant the homosexual – he has united the >> cantankerous right wing. He has done what the constitution of India >> could not do – bring the radical Islamic cleric, the saffron robed >> yogis, the Bible-bashing clergyman to same side of the table. Together >> these self-proclaimed guardians of culture would like the homosexuals >> to be made invisible once more. >> >> Baba Ramdevji would for sure celebrate the celibacy of Bhisma. If he >> would have his way, he would, perhaps, drag Shikhandi to the mental >> asylum and teach him breathing exercises until the Yaksha’s appendage >> drops and he/she chokes and gasps into heterosexuality. But not >> Krishna. On Krishna’s chariot, Shikhandi – as he/she is – will always >> be welcomed. >> >> -- >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From madhuri.mohi at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 22:36:29 2009 From: madhuri.mohi at gmail.com (madhuri mohindar) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:06:29 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Interesting article about ID cards with chips Message-ID: <355142e0907171006k26d1e605kddc9a6cf183608f0@mail.gmail.com> THE ECONOMIST: Have chip, will travel Jul 17th 2009 *Why chips in passports and ID cards are a stupid idea* A MONTH of tramping around Europe has given your correspondent a chance to see how effective the new e-passports are at border crossings. Between them, his family holds American, Japanese and British passports, each recently renewed. Unlike previous ones, the e-passports contain biometric data embedded in a radio-frequency identification (RFID) chip, along with the usual mugshot and optical bar-code. Although all new passports conform, more or less, to standards laid down by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, each country implements the requirements somewhat differently. The new American passport sets the gold standard. It has additional features built into it that make it especially hard to counterfeit. The Japanese passport runs a close second, while the British version comes a poor third. So far, the only biometric details stored in the new chipped passports are facial measurements, including the distance between the holder's eyes and the positions of the nose, mouth and ears. The measurements-extracted from passport photographs using facial-recognition software-are digitally encoded and stored in the RFID's memory along with a digitised photograph and personal details. The two main justifications for adding chips to passports are that they improve security at border crossings and speed up immigration procedures. Your correspondent thinks this is poppycock. Take speed. The immigration officer still has to open the e-passport, read its contents and then swipe its bar-code through an optical reader to get the bearer's file up on a screen ready to ask a few questions. There, normally, the procedure would end. Next, however, the e-passport has to be placed over an inductive reader that provides the radio-frequency energy to power up the passive RFID so it can spit out its data. Moments later, the chip's contents appear on the screen, ready to be compared with those printed in the booklet. If the two sets of information agree, the passport is accepted as authentic. In other words, all the chip does is confirm what is printed in the passport. What it does not do is prove the holder is the person he or she claims to be-no more so than a traditional passport did. If the person has a reasonable likeness to the photograph-and therefore similar biometric details-a stolen e-passport could readily be accepted. Or if the passport is a fake and the chip cloned, it could just as easily pass muster. As always, it will come down to the experienced eye of the immigration official-whether it's a chipped passport or a traditional one. How easy is it to clone an e-passport? The RFID chip is not supposed to divulge any data until the reading machine on the immigration official's desk authenticates itself by presenting an encrypted digital key. This has to match another encrypted key that is generated from a string of data scanned into the system from the optical bar-code printed in the passport. Only when the two keys match can the chip be unlocked. That, at least, is the theory. Unfortunately, not all countries have implemented the "passkey" part of the process as well as they might have done. Even the European Union admits that the security of its e-passports was "poorly conceived". Indeed, no sooner had European authorities introduced the new chipped passports than a Dutch one was hacked live on television, with the participants gaining access to the owner's digital photograph and personal details. Days later, a handful of British e-passports were given the same treatment. Part of the problem is the encryption keys themselves. Because they depend on familiar groupings-such as passport numbers, places of birth and birth dates-they tend to be highly structured sequences that are quite easy to guess. That makes it possible for hackers to decode such keys in minutes rather than hours. Also, because RFIDs broadcast their encrypted contents over the air, eavesdropping is easy. The official range of an e-passport's RFID is supposed to be no more than ten centimetres (four inches). But with $100 worth of hobbyist gear, Israeli researchers managed to skim encrypted data off e-passports from several feet away. A student at Cambridge University in Britain went further, intercepting e-passport transmissions some 50 metres (160 feet) away. That was enough for State Department officials in Washington, DC, to insist that American e-passports be fitted with metal sleeves to shield them, when closed, from prying electronic eyes. The measures seem to be reasonably effective, though e-passports that get wedged open slightly by keys or loose change can still be read electronically from a distance. Slightly open passports could leave holders vulnerable to physical attack. Each country encrypts data in a characteristic way that terrorists could use to identify the nationality of the person carrying the chipped passport. To demonstrate the point, a firm called Flexilis used a partially opened American e-passport tucked in the pocket of a dummy to trigger an explosion as it passed a dustbin containing a small charge. As vulnerable as e-passports are to electronic eavesdropping and cloning (which their non-chipped predecessors were not), they are nowhere near as bad as the new generation of chipped identity cards that are finding their way into people's pockets. Since June 1st Americans re-entering the country by land or sea from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda and the Caribbean have had to carry at least an Enhanced Driving Licence or a PASS card-picture IDs the size of a credit-card with the bearer's identification number stored in an RFID chip. Certainly, chipped ID cards speed things up at borders. All you have to do is hold the little plastic card to the windscreen as you approach the checkpoint, and a scanner reads your unique identification number. Your file is immediately downloaded from a central database for the immigration officer to see on a screen. The officer can then wave you through or hold you momentarily for questioning. Speedy they may be, but chipped ID cards are horrendously insecure. When prompted, they broadcast their unique identifier in plain text, without any form of encryption or authentication, to anyone who is listening. And because they are designed to be interrogated from distances of ten metres or more, they are a doddle to intercept. Making matters worse, they rely on the same RFID tags used by retailers, and can therefore be "locked" or "killed" remotely by wireless commands. The scope for identity theft, chaos or worse is unlimited. Bizarrely, you can enter America on one of these pieces of plastic. What on earth were the authorities thinking? Embarrassed officials are now appealing to people carrying such ID cards to keep them safely tucked away in metal sheaths. Truth be told, shielding them merely reduces the range from which they can be read. The current record is 65 metres. Meanwhile, the British government is scrambling to avert a similar fiasco. Earlier this month, the Home Office announced a change of heart, saying its proposed national ID card scheme would not now be compulsory. It also deferred ordering equipment for making the cards until autumn 2010-after the next election. Britain's opposition parties have gone further, promising to scrap the hated ID card system altogether, along with the central database that would hold comprehensive files on everyone in the land. With a change of government expected next year, Britons may yet be spared the insanities Americans are now having to put up with. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 22:58:51 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:58:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why statues won't help Mayawati In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690907171028n1b182e0axdd5c75a42531be41@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ritwik Agrawal Date: Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 5:41 AM Subject: Why statues won't help Mayawati To: mail at ritwikagrawal.com Recently there has been a fair bit of comment on the Mayawati government’s decision to build statues and memorials to “Dalit icons” [including herself] at a cost of thousands of crores of taxpayer money. While the commentary on this matter has been relatively recent, large scale edification has been on Mayawati’s radar ever since she first assumed chief ministership of India’s largest state, back in the mid nineties. Over the last two decades and more, erecting statues of Ambedkar and other Dalit icons has been seen as a potent symbol of the shift in the dynamics of power. Like all manifestations of identity politics, Dalit leaders sought to give their followers “pride”, as a substitute for real improvement in the ground situation. Much of the reporting and “analysis” regarding the latest statue building exercise, in newspapers and on TV [between such vital topics as "dhoni ke dhurandar" and "rakhi ka swayamwar"] hasn’t touched upon the topic of electoral gain: will this statue building spree benefit Mayawati electorally? --- continue reading on http://www.ritwikagrawal.com/2009/07/17/why-statues-wont-help-mayawati/ -- Ritwik Agrawal ---------------------- http://www.ritwikagrawal.com From yasir.media at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 01:11:57 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 00:41:57 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] SC orders equal benefits for transvestites Message-ID: <5af37bb0907171241y4e990ef6ra93dd4dbe1cc8d40@mail.gmail.com> Pakistan SC orders equal benefits for transvestites ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court has ordered that transvestites, being equal citizens of Pakistan, should also benefit from the federal and provincial governments’ financial support schemes such as the Benazir Income Support Programme (BISP). http://bit.ly/9Rras From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 02:25:15 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:55:15 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Iran Discussions on the Reader-List (I) In-Reply-To: <8d12eea42bca5eeb9885f8b97d3a845c@sarai.net> References: <8d12eea42bca5eeb9885f8b97d3a845c@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Mr.Shuddha, It is not to contest your self admitted aversion to the Indian nation, but you seem to be going a bit too far in your criticism of India. Espousing solidarity with the people of Iran or Palestine does not necessitate demonising India. There appears to be no relevance in shoving in references to Kashmir in your analysis of the successive regimes in Iran. Your obsession with the ‘occupation’ of Kashmir throws up of issues. ‘Occupied Kashmir’ certainly does not include Ladakh & Jammu regions together with a territorial area & population exceeding that of Kashmir valley. At least the inhabitants of these provinces which include Hindus; Shia & Sunni Muslims; Budhists; Sikhs; Gujjars & Bakarwals do not think so. Abrogation of article 370 & further integration with the Indian Union is a long pending demand in Jammu & Ladakh. And with regards the valley, the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were targeted & subjected to ethnic cleansing mainly because they symbolised Indian presence in Kashmir. And all those Muslim followers of Sheikh Abdullah’s NC or PDP & Congress who braving the terrorists’ guns have time & again come out & voted in elections conducted under the constitution of India. As on today Abdullahs, Muftis, Soz, Azad etc. etc. also do not regard Kashmir as an occupied territory-they swear by the Indian constitution. Most of the protagonists of the present bloody turmoil in Kashmir are the disgruntled ‘main stream’ politicians of yesterday who discovered better avenues in changing sides some two decades ago. They have fought elections, they have been members of the assembly, and they have even been ministers. Situation could have been possibly different had the mass conversion campaign not followed the advent of Islam in Kashmir a few hundred years ago-accession of Kashmir would have been in no way different from say that of other princely states in to the union of India. Minus the ‘gun’ & pan Islamic fervour Kashmir ceases to be any issue. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:33:23 +0530 > From: shuddha at sarai.net > To: justjunaid at gmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Iran Discussions on the Reader-List (I) > > Dear Junaid, > > Many thanks for your excellent rejoinders to my posting. I agree with much > of what you have said. But a few clarifications are in order. I hope I can > make sense while I write this, hurriedly. This is written in the spirit of > a general response to your remarks rather than as a detailed rejoinder. > > I do not believe that Iran under the Shah was paradise. I think that the > Shah's regime represented the worst form of tyranny possible. Autocratic, > brutal, cynical, and totally alienated from the experiences of the majority > of the people. I have no regrets at all about the fact that the Shah of > Iran had to flee his domain. I wish he had fled much earlier. > > I refuse however to believe that the hijacking of the Iranian revolution by > Ayatollah Khomeini and his camp followers represents a great step forward. > I think it was a great and tragic step backwards. The Iranian revolution > of 1979 was not begun by the Mullahs of Qom, it was ended by them. If > anything, despite the rhetorical flourishes of the Khomeini dispensation, I > have absolutely no doubt about the fact that the Islamic Republic > represented an active counter-revolution. The deep structures of the > Iranian state as built up by the Shah, especially the dreaded SAVAK, > remained untouched, it just became the VEVAK. An elderly Iranian dissident > friend now living in Exile once spoke to me of the way in which the SAVAK > officers who had tailed them through the Shah years turned up again like > bad pennies, except that some of them now sported neatly trimmed beards. > > The Iranian revolutionary upsurge of 1979 was in some ways short circuited > by the subsequent structures of the Islamic Republic, just as the > revolutionary upsurge of 1917 in Russia was to a large extent subverted by > the structures put in place by the Stalinist faction of the Bolshevik party > from the early to mid 1920s in Russia. > > You speak of the referendum that called for the Islamic Republic, yet > neglect to mention that the entire 'Velayat-e-Faqih' system of governance, > which effectively imposed a clerical dictatorship under the masquerade of > republican democracy was introduced into the constitutional structures, not > through debate and discussion, but through a kind of sleight of hand, > subverting forever, thereby, any possibility that the Islamic Republic ever > had of acquiring the semblence of what even some believed naively to be the > beginnings of an 'Islamic Democracy'. > > And no, the 'Guardians Council' and the 'Supreme Leader' put in place by > the 'Velayat e Faqih' are not toothless 'advisors'. They control the > military, the 'revolutionary guards', the all powerful intelligence > ministry, and the commanding heights of the economy - through the bonyads > or foundations. Which is why, the disastrous transformation of the > defensive measures into the 'offensive' war, that Khomeini decreed, > mirroring Saddam Hussain, which plunged Iran and Iraq further into the most > meaningless war of the middle east, overruling saner counsel even from > within his own regime. > > One does not have to be beholden to Tsarism to be critical of Stalin, just > as one does not have to be a partisan of the Pahlevi dynasty to be critical > of the regime of the Islamic Republic. To suggest that this is the case is > to be disingenuous. And I know that you have no desire to be disingenuous. > > However, the fact remains, that the land reform measures introduced during > the Shah's regime (and I have no doubt that they were introduced cynically) > did empower large sections of the rural population, to the extent that they > could stand up to his oppression. I have also no doubt about the fact that > some of these measures were sought to be reversed as 'un-Islamic' in the > Islamic Republic. An analogy closer to home might be useful here. The > CPI(M) led government of West Bengal did implement substantial land reform > in the period following 1977 (exactly as the Sheikh Abdullah dispensation > had done in Jammu and Kashmir in the 1950s). The same CPI(M) led government > sought to subvert the achivements of land reform with its disastrous > imaginations in Singur and Nandigram. It was the population that benefited > from land reforms that was able to stand up to, and resist theoppression > of the CPI(M), in West Bengal. This does not mean that I think that the > CPI(M) in West Bengal (or for that matter, the National Conference in > Kashmir, which had once pursued a similar course) is a progressive force. > The fact is, both acted as transmitters and channels of popular sentiment > for a period, and took advantage of the same. The Shah of Iran, Indira > Gandhi, Mao Zedong, Stalin and Hitler did the same. This does not make me > endorse their politics. > > So, my criticism of the Khomeini-Khameini-Ahmadinejad formation cannot be > legitimately read as an endorsement of the Shah and the Pahlevi dynasty. > > I agree with you when you say that Iran is a normal country, it is not a > spectacular exception. Iran is like India, like the United States, like > France, like Israel, like Cuba. And precisely because we use a set of > standards to develop a critique of politics in these states, we have no > reason to abandon those criteria when it comes to Iran. Iran is a rich > country, much richer than India, and our awareness of what poverty means in > Iran has to be seen in the context of what poverty means in other > relatively well off countries. I think the sight of malnutrition and inner > city degradation in the United States is actually far more shocking than > the absolute indices of poverty in India, and for similar reasons, I am > convinced that the data relevant to Iran shows great reasons for concern. > > But let me be clearer on what I mean as the refusal to toe the line of an > 'Iranian' exceptionalism. For example, i think the nuclear agendas of the > (successive) governments of Iran, Israel and India are equally worthy of > criticism, as are their abysmal human rights records. > > The Israeli state's nuclear weapons programme is a far greater threat to > peace and stability in the middle east than Iran's, simply because it is at > a far more advanced state. Israel is an effectively weaponized nuclear > power, Iran is not yet one. So, I have no doubt at all that those (in the > US, India and elsewhere) who scream about the possibility of a > 'nuclearized' Iran and ignore Israel, are guilty of the most profound > hypocrisy. Nor am I unaware of the fact that one of the longest standing > prisoners of conscience in the middle east is the Israeli engineer, > Mordechai Vanunu, who acted as a whistle-blower on the Israeli state's > nuclear agenda. > > What I refuse to do is to make an exception of Iran, because it is Iran. > Exactly as I refuse to make an exception of India, or for that matter of > Israel (as many people, both on the right, and some on the left do, on the > grounds that to criticize the policies of the State of Israel is to fall > lapse into anti-semitism - I have no such illusions). If Golda Meir said > 'There are no Palestinians' or if Sardar Patel expressed downright racist > sentiments about the people of the North East in India, or if Ahmadinejad > doubts the nature and reality of the Shoah, then each of these are equally > worthy of condemnation on the grounds of their inherent and implicit racial > prejudice. > > As for Ahmadinejad's 'anti-semitism', i am not one of those who deduce it > from his repetition of the grandiose sentiments of Ayatollah Khomeini > (about 'effacing the regime that occupies Jerusalem from the pages of > time') which has been mistranslated, as you correctly point out, as 'wiping > Israel off the map'. Rather, my understanding of Ahmadinejad's > anti-semitism has to do with his systematic 'holocaust denial' to bolster > which, he has no hesitation in organizing international conferences with > revisionist neo-nazi 'historians' and Klu Klux Klan eminences. > > I totally agree with you that to speak of the death of Neda Agha Soltan, > and to remain silent, about the death of Sheik Aziz in Kashmir, is > hypocrisy. But, unfortunately, (or fortunately) that is not a charge that > can be levelled at my door. I remember writing about the killing of Sheik > Abdul Aziz on this list (and much else besides) and elsewhere. So, I am not > exactly the kind of person who focuses on Iran in order to avoid looking > closely at what goes on closer to home. > > I have no doubt at all that much of those who are willing to shed tears for > Iran are happily content to look away when it comes to what happens in > Palestine or in Kashmir. But precisely because of this, we, who are acutely > aware of what happens in Palestine or in Kashmir, and speak of it openly, > must not be silent when it comes to Iran. To do would be to mirror the > hypocrisy of the generations of Indian communists who would use every > occasion to remind you of the oppression of workers in the west, and choose > to remain silent about the repression of workers in (then) Poland, or for > that matter, the USSR. > > I will write in greater detail later, especially on the role of religion in > the Iranian revolution. But meanwhile, I wanted to quicly begin to address > some of the other questions you have raised. I am not, as you know, an > Indian nationalist by any means, I do however, recognize the difference > between the utter two facedness of the elites of states like Pakistan, > Nigeria and Iran, and large sections of what gets loosely described as the > Indian middle classes. I have observed, over many years, the utter and > insulated indifference that many (not all) of my Pakistani peers have had > towards their own milieu and society. The tears that they shed over what > happens as a result of the Indian occupation of Kashmir are meaningless, > because they are happy to benefit, when necessary, from their feudal > contempt of the large masses of the Pakistani population, with whom, they > have nothing in common. They do not care for the way Balochistan is > pillaged, or the wretchedness that prevails in the interiors of Sindh > > And, while I have remained the harshest critic of the Indian nation state's > actions, I also know that there is a difference between a class that has > fattened itself and its ambitions over successive long periods of a > ruthlessly sustained military dictatorship (as has happened in Pakistan) > and the way things have developed, over the decades, in India. The > lethargy, the utter disconnectedness, the feudal non-chalance of the thin > wedge of the Pakistani upper middle classes, with which I have more than a > passing familiarity, > > I know, for a fact, that no greater tragedy can befall the people of > Kashmir, than having their servitude transferred from Indian to Pakistani > chains. > > This is not to exonerate or endorse or praise the Indian middle class,( i > would not even dream of doing so) just to acknowledge, that the structures > that govern India today have less need for a day to day level of hypocrisy > and two facedness on the part of the vague category called the Middle Class > Indian. In India, we do not hide our whisky much, not anymore, in Iran, the > alchoholic Mullahs who pretend to be teetotallers, do. They sip their > chosen brew from stainless steel decanters, or behind locked doors, or run > enormous bootlegging operations from the security of their enormous villas. > > This does not mean that people in India are better or worse, it just means > that they have less reason to be opaque on several counts. The inordinate > propensity to consume large amounts of bad whisky being only one of them. > > Finally , let me end on a personal note. I actually have a deep and abiding > engagement with Iran. The problem is not that I 'hate' Iran, but that > maybe, that I am much too concerned about it for my own good. Because I > feel close to the historical experiences and the cultural circumstances of > the Iranian people. That is why I 'hate' Ahmadinejad, and have always felt > the deepest rage when I think of Khomeini, of the Shah of Iran (and yes, i > think Natanyahu should also be tried as a war criminal) This sentiment, for > whatever it is worth, is not different from my utter contempt, hatred and > anger with regard to the legacies of Stalin or Mao. > > As a person who identifies with the left, I have a much greater intensity > of hatred for Stalin and Mao than someone who has notionally nothing to do > with the left. I feel that Stalinism violates me, because I identify with > the left. For very similar reasons, because of my affinity with Iran, the > regime of the Islamic Republic is anathema to me. I wish to see the Islamic > Republic destroyed, just as I wish to see Zionism made irrelevant and > meaningless, because I want to believe in a future worth fighting for, for > my friends who are Iranian, Israeli and Palestinian, and for their > children. And for the same reasons, for the sake of your future and mine, I > want both Indian and Kashmiri nationalisms to be recognized as being the > mediocre, moth-eaten expressions of our common (yet divergent) servitude. > If you get rid of the chains of the Indian occupation, we know that it will > (in some ways) liberate us as well. > > I believe that those of us who are critical of empire and domination, must > be even more vigilant of the charlatans who sometimes mimic our own > anxieties. We cannot afford to let them down.That is why, for me, being > critical of George Bush entails a rigorous rejection of the rhetoric of > Ahmadinejad and Chavez. That is why, being militantly opposed to the Indian > occupation of Kashmir, also, for me, entails a total and absolute rejection > of the reactionary politics of Kashmiri nationalism as it is represented by > Syed Ali Shah Geelani. I have no hesitation on being categorical on these > issues. One position, in my opinion, demands the other. > > warm regards, and, as ever, in solidarity > > Shuddha > > > > On 1:37 am 07/17/09 Junaid wrote: > > Dear Shuddha, > > > > Thank you for the informative post on Iran. In that short post you > > have managed well to marshal together many facts and figures to > > support your well-argued conclusions. You have also summarized nicely > > the main issues that have emerged from the debates here so far. But as > > we said earlier, our differences on Iran shall remain, mostly on > > issues of how to interpret “facts,” the perspectives through which one > > sees Iran, and not least of all on how Iran is a perfect example of “a > > discourse” which to an incredible level has lost its bearing in > > reality. > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ cricket and news. Logon to MSN Video for the latest clips http://www.exploremyway.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 10:18:30 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:18:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Literature - Kashmiri Poetry - Its Past and Present Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907172148u24bb9741ie43cffa503bbde79@mail.gmail.com> *Kashmiri Poetry* *Its Past and Present* *History* *of Kashmir is a poignant tale of poverty, hardship and humiliation. But in the vast desert of its political subjugation servitude, and economic suffering, here and there, one finds in its history rich oasis of benevolent rule, social and economic prosperity where rich culture, art and springs of communal amity, religious tolerance quench the thirst and soothe the hearts of Kashmiris.* Kashmiri, though spoken by more than forty lakhs of people has never been a medium of communication among the common people; while Sanskrit, Persian and English have, in turn, been the official languages or the languages of the educated sections. Till the end of the 18th century whatever poetry was produced, was the work of the illiterate men and country bards or women like Lalleshwari and Habba Khatoon. *Lal Ded* (URL ) Ignoring the folklore, we can historically locate the first poets of Kashmir in the 14th century. Among them Lalleshwari or Lai Ded is the most significant poetess. After the benign and peaceful rule of Avantivarman in Kashmir. there followed the long period of political unrest and uncertainty which was responsible for the degeneration of religion and morals of the people. They followed the complicated rites and dogmas and naturally the simple religion of Islam had a great impact on the people of Kashmir. They did not keep themselves aloof and remain entrenched in stronghold of religious separateness. They mixed with the Muslims. This close contact between them and their influence on each other brought about the evolution of mystics and, to some extent, a sort of synthesis of the two religions in certain sects. Lalleshwari belongs to this genre of mystics who sang many truths that are common to many Hindus and Muslims. No doubt, her religious philosophy is fundamentally based on Yoga and Shaivism which she expressed in precise, apt and sweet Kashmiri dialect. According to her, devotion to God requires purity of heart and concentration of mind which she expressed in beautiful verse. She says: "The mind's steed runs over the skies Within a wink it travels lakhs of leagues. A truly intelligent man can bridle the cavorting steed. And guide his chariot aright on the wheels of Prana ". (tr. from Kashmiri) She considers idolatory as useless and urges us to take to yogic practice: "Idol and temple of stone So temple above and idol below are one; Which will they worship O stupid one Bring about the union of mind and soul". (tr. from Kashmiri) Contemporary of Lai Ded was Sheikh Nur-ud-Din Wali, the great mystic, who too like her was revered by both Hindus and Muslims of Kashmir.: expressed his moral teachings in concise and sweet verses, which form valuable gems of Kashmiri literature. He, like Lal Ded, exhorted his followers to perform good actions for therein lies the salvation of man. One of his verses translated into English is: "The dog is barking in the compound, O Brothers! Give ear and listen to what he says; As one sowed, so did he reap Then Nund, sow, sow, sow". Religious schisms were raising their heads in his time and Nund Rishi, as he was lovingly called, warned people against these hypocritical saints in the following verse (translated from Kashmiri): "The rosary is like a snake; Thou bendest it on seeing the disciples; Thou hast eaten six platefuls, one like another If thou art a priest, then who are robbers?" After the death of the two mystics, Lai Ded and Nund Rishi, the Muse in Kashmir fell into a deep sleep for about two hundred years and with the birth of Habba Khatoon it woke up again fluttering and singing, not the mystical experience but the lilting tunes of true romance. Poets imagine romance and write about it but Habba Khatoon lives romance and sings about it. Up to her time poets were expected to sing the love of God but she sang of human love. She sang lyrics which can be regarded as great gems in Kashmiri literature and therein her genius exults. The Kashmiri poetry had been surcharged with mysticism and divinity but she bought fresh air into it when she sang of mundane earthly love. She does not treat love, as a "transcendental passion or as a mystic mingling of sense and spirit nor is she engrossed in universal, abstract and ideal love". She sings of her personal substantive love. She also lends herself to the emotions of the joylessness of life. Her own failure in marriage and then her own love story, proved a significant factor in her emotional experience and in her poetry only `plaintive numbers flow' and these echo her own grief. In one of her famous poems she says: "Stole thou my heart and forsook me at last Pray come, my lovely Love, O come! Come friend let us to collecting cress, Mystery of fate none can unravel. Sly, senseless people slander and defame me Pray, come, my lovely Love, O come! Hurt he hath me with his love's hatchet Then sent none to ask and enquire after. Pray, come, my lovely Love, O come". (tr. from Kashmiri) No poems, barring those of Habba Khatoon or Arnimal, which sing of a woman's passion or love from the feminine standpoint, are found in Kashmiri literature. Kashmiri ladies, therefore, find in her poems an eloquent exposition of the woman's point of view. Her desperate wails make them share her despair. Therefore, miserable women, downtrodden by callous men and persecuted by the mother-in-law, feel consoled and their sorrowful feelings get purged by singing her verses in their lonely moments. Her individual and personal desire is the desire of every woman. Thus Habba Khatoon laments: "Pining and melting I am like snow in summer Though blooming blossom of jasmine I am; Thine the garden and thou enjoy it Oh, why dost thou despise me!" *Habba Khatoon *(URL) (TV Movie) A century later another lady, named Arnimal, moved the hearts of the Kashmiri people. She was forsaken by her husband. His desertion aroused the muse in her. Her songs are sweet and full of rich imagery and pathos. Thus she wails: My face was like a jasmine in July Now it is like yellow withered rose. Ah! when will he come to me And I gaze at his lovely face". Kashmiri poetry of the modern period starts with the beginning of 19thcentury. In the early stages Kashmiri was dominated by Persian influences, as it was the court language and the medium of polite literature. Kashmiri poets meticulously followed the models set by Persian poets: From 1819 to 1890 was the period when Kashmir produced poetry both rich and prolific. The devotional type of poetry had laid firm Foundations in Kashmir. Pandit Parmanand, is the great exponent of Ida devotional songs). He expressed his devotion for Lord Krishna in sweet and direct diction. His poems, though simple, are of deep metaphysical import. Shams Fakir, born in 1943, was a mystic and a highly religious man. He spent all his life of 63 years in the worship of God and expressed his Sufi-type of teaching in simple, sweet and direct poems. He followed Nund Rishi and believed in the purity of heart and the denial of the joys of life. He believed in leading a simple life. Wahab Khar was also a Sufi of his type, who also quoted and expressed his simple teachings in simple Kashmiri language. One of the earliest poets who follows Persian pattern Mohammad Gami. He wrote romances like Yusuf Zulaikha, Laila Majnu and Shirin Khusru, etc. His descriptions are trite and graphic. What distinguishes his poetry is the true quality of passion: "Softly come, flowers shall I shower Listen to my wails, I search for you in the woods; In the garden of love I seek you. Where you fly, there I follow you. My whimsical one, I adore you. Your tresses are tumbled down on your shoulders Like branches of Sumbal stooping low and low You know my heart's desire My heart and body are restless!" Maqbul Shah Kralwari, at the same time, wrote a poetic romance Gulrez. Its theme is Persian but the scenes are typically Kashmiri. The miserable condition of squalor and fear in which a farmer lived has been well described by him in his famous satire Gruisnama, written in a frank, straightforward and sympathetic sarcasm. He says: "Thrushings verily have been ordained by Heaven for the peasant; Pull out the shoe and strike him on the head". Again, he describes peasants running forth to welcome a state official, Sazwal, with false warmth: "If the Sazwal comes across them they run to greet him They would knock away his fatigue with closed fists Shampoo his limbs and offer him seat upon their heads". He is famous for his lyrical poetry too wherein he gives beautiful description of Nature. The lyric stream of Kashmiri verse runs deeper in Rasul Mir. His poems possess all the essential elements that go to make a true lyric-intense passion, exquisite verbal melody and spontaneity of utterance. They have such careless ease and abandon, such indefinable and bewitching sweetness about them that they send a strange yet delightful thrill in us. Thus sings the poet (tr. from Kashmiri): "Love, thy serpentine curls have enchanted me O, cast a glance of thy languid eyes, my drunken love. How I admire thy cypress stature and thy form resplendent like the moon! O, my loved one, thou art possessed of smile, form resplendent like the moon". He is considered as the father of Kashmiri ghazal, running in a well-knit form and pattern. The renaissance in modern Kashmiri literature begins in the early twenties of this century with Ghulam Ahmad Mahjoor's poetry. who was given eminence by Tagore, who called him "the Wordsworth of Kashmiri poetry". He, as a village Patwari, came into close contact with poor down-trodden rustic people of the villages, who lived in squalor and misery. Their condition shocked and shook him to the very marrow and he voiced their inner feelings and exhorted them to rise and strive for their own emancipation. There was feudalism prevailing in Kashmir as elsewhere in the country, which was full of vices. Feudal lords have always been interested in profit-hunting and exploiting the poor classes. Mahjoor did not flee from the socio-political world into an enchanted realm of his own mind jealously closed against the intrusion of social and political affairs. His poems are full of patriotism. He says: "Mahjoor, our own motherland is a flowery garden, Most lovely! Best we must love our dear land Our land is a lovely garden" (tr. From Kashmiri) "He even blows the trumpet of revolution If thou wouldst rouse this habitat of roses, Leave toying with kettle-drums. Let there be thunder-storm and tempest, aye an earthquake". He is a votary of Hindu-Muslim unity and in the hearts of Kashmiri people are enshrined the high principles of brotherhood, tolerance and communal amity. According to him: "Hindus will keep the helm and Muslims ply the oars; Let them together row ashore the boat of this country". [image: Mahjoor] *Ghulam Ahmad Mahjoor *(URL) Mahjoor was not a mystic or a recluse but a lover of Life and Nature. In his early life he was not interested in politics. In his famous poem Gulshan Vattan Chu honey (Our Land is a Lovely Garden) he sings of the beauty of Nature: "To gardens, mountains and hills Ravines, woods and banks Colourful flowers with colour fills Our land is a lovely garden! Flowers are in full bloom In gardens, woods and glens; Bulbul gazing gets gay soon; Our land is a lovely garden!" He has written in simple popular language poems of immense lyrical sweetness. In his well-known poem Lokchar (Youth) he melodiously sings: "A cedar tree is a wood in my youth On a river's bank delighting in lush verdure; Cut it not down, O cruel woodcutter! O my youth, my spring time! Like a song-bird of the garden is my youth! Singing sweetly, sitting on a flowering bough. O chief hunter, do not take aim at it; O my youth, my spring time" Mahjoor was followed by Abdul Ahad Azad who too like him took to revolutionary ideas. But Mahjoor was a nationalist while Azad desired and longed for a socialist pattern of society, based on equality among men. The end of feudal regime in Kashmir and the consequent political changes brought about a cataclysmic awakening and an urge to reject the traditional values in Kashmiris. The younger generation was no longer deferential to old moral principles and there was naturally a breakdown in the traditional values in all fields of social activities. Men like Zinda Koul, better known as "Master ji", looked inwards and to the things of the spirit. He found that knowledge and freedom which had given us material progress had removed harmony, confidence and serenity from our hearts. The modern mind was tormented by scepticism and anguish. He shunned the political enthusiasm of the time and was not swept off his feet by the socialistic ideas and dreams. The only key to happiness, according to him, is love and he does not preach any dogmatic philosophy or state any mystical certainties. Pure poetry aspires to a condition of prayer and Zinda Koul's famous poem is full of such poetry. Like Francis Thompson he feels that God always thought of his well-being and though he fears Him and avoids him God is for ever waiting for man to turn to Him. Says Zinda Koul: "Have strayed, tottered and fallen, How dare I face Him again? But you'll find it unavailing- This lame excuse to fly Him. For even if you turn, He will pursue for ever; This bond is from the dawn of life Not a passing childish fancy". Majbooriyaa (Compulsion) and Natairee (Unpreparedness) are sublime poems which express the belief in the supermacy of the spirit over reason. [image: Pandit Zinda Koul] *Pandit Zinda Koul (1884-1965) *(URL) The great ferment began in 1931 when Sheikh Moh'd Abdullah launched an agitation against the autocracy and with the invasion of Kashmir by Pakistan in 1947, it came to its full flowering. A new fervour gripped the new generation of poets when the people's government was formed after the collapse of the feudalistic rule, action and poetry became a vehicle of propaganda for social and political justice. A group of poets emerged who regarded socialistic realism as an all-pervasive literary value. They became the people's articulate voice against the aristocratic exploitation, corruption and imperialist designs on the valley of Kashmir. They experimented with new forms and new themes. The leader of this progressive group, as it came to be known, was Dina Nath Nadim. He was influenced by the English poets like Shelley and Byron, the Marxist thought and Russian and Chinese revolutions. Dina Nath Nadim who was also awarded Soviet Land Nehru Award by the U.S.S.R. in 1971 for his revolutionary poetry, was the most significant poet ofthe new generation. The influence of Mayakovsky Gorky can clearly be seen in h is poetry. His poetry is intimately connected with the political upheavals in Kashmir. In Vathi Baagachi Kukli (Arise, 0 Oriole of the Garden) he sang ofthe dawn of freedom movement in Kashmir. In Asi Kashirav tul nov rut kadam (We Kashmiris took the right new step) he hailed the land to the tillers' step. He mostly wrote with a political bias; in his Bu Gyavana Az (I will not sing today) he sings of the new freedom movement: "I will not sing today Of roses and of bulbuls Of irises and hyacinths I will not sing Those drunken and ravishing Dulcet and sleepy eyed songs No more such songs for me!" In his poems he makes impeccable use of words and original imagery drawn from everyday life. This has made his poems very popular. Dal Hanzani Hund satsun (The song of the boatwoman) is a clear example of such poems: "I've brought them fresh from the take Come buy, come buy, come buy! Small brinjal and round big gourds- Come buy! come buy! come buy! Fresh radish gleaming in the shade of the weed Marsh turnip blushing like a belle- O my boat is like the flowering dawn! Come buy! come buy! come buy!" Nadim also has written an opera Imber Bumerzal which is most famous for its music and richness of thought and has won for him laurels. He influenced many poets. Abdul Rehman Rahi is significant among them. Rahi also is a poet of revolution and wrote some propagandist poems. He introduced into Kashmiri poetry two things. one was the monologue and another the use of symbolist technique. In Gata Gash (Darkness Light) the Jagirdhar and the peasant speak alternately. He invokes an atmosphere through significant details and images, as: "I saw a maiden fair in grief With bent back and tears flowing I drew closer in that garden Lo! it was the narcissus heavy with dew". Another great poet of modern time in Kashmir is Mirza Arif. He does not belong to this group of socialist poets and has poetry which has its own distinct characteristics and originality. He is by education and temperament a scientist and keenly observes life with a certain detachment. He, too, has reflected on the different facts of social and political life in Kashmir and he writes about exploitation, hypocrisy and falsehood. He takes the lid off the cesspool of social evil. He writes: "One chance leap shows jackal in lion's skin Seemingly elephants, they lack the strength of a hair. Create they thus the world of dissembling What appear the iron walls, are but spider's webs, The wealthy called him scum; The political juggler called him king; The poor have seen the changing faces of the knaves". Or "Fallen on the crossroads, the drunken man, To whom intoxication will bring sense (moral) Is better far than the sage with innocent face, Hidden in whose marrow lies the Satan". Among other new poets in Kashmir may be mentioned Amin Kamil, Noor Moh'd Roshan, Ghulam Nabi Firaq and Moti Lal Saqi. All these poets are iconoclastic and would like to break the idols of old traditions. They also describe the social evils with full force. Thus sings Amin Kamil: "Within their parlours darkness Illuminations splendour without. Valued much is yellow gold, love but ignored! Tearing curtains tunes will run out, Time has laid the trap, For life is not a stagnant pond". Noor Moh'd Roshan's intellectual ideas are superb and he expresses them sweetly as: "Stunned Satan sadly was roaming in the heavens "Why you left the earth" asked the Almighty of him. "I have come to hide myself, for shocked am I to see", he pleaded "Man is proficient in all my villainy and wickedness; No work is now left for me down below" The Cultural Academy of Jammu & Kashmir and the Radio Kashmir are encouraging and actively and directly helping the budding poets and we find since Independence in 1947, a palpable resurgence in the field of art and literature. Source: *The Rich Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir* *Studies in Art, Architecture, History and Culture of the Region* *By Prof. Somnath Wakhlu* From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 11:27:03 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:27:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jihad in Kashmir will keep giving birth to global jihadis. In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907172255k3cc96c7ct1b0b242255740f61@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907172255k3cc96c7ct1b0b242255740f61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907172257m63c79969hdba2ea56bdf5ad39@mail.gmail.com> Asia Times Online Arif Jamal is arguably the leading Pakistani expert on the jihad in Kashmir. He is the author of Shadow War: The Untold Story of Jihad in Kashmir [1], a groundbreaking, gripping account of the interminable, key conflict between India and Pakistan, based on interviews with hundreds of militants over the years. The book is essential reading for understanding, among other issues, how the United States-friendly Pakistani army trained nearly half a million jihadis; how United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) money ended up financing the jihad in Kashmir; and how closely interconnected is the situation in Kashmir with the endless turmoil in Afghanistan and the global jihad. Along with other foreign correspondents from the US, France and Canada, this correspondent recently shared Jamal's knowledge on the ground - in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, as well as in the Pashtun tribal areas of Pakistan. Lately, Jamal has been a fellow at the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at Harvard University and is currently associated with New York University. In an extensive interview, Jamal discusses the origins of jihad, evolving from subversion to guerrilla war and to "privatization"; and how Pakistan's army kept supporting jihadis in Kashmir and the Taliban in Afghanistan even after September 11, 2001, attack s on the US. He sheds light on what really happened in the recent Swat Valley operations in Pakistan against militants - which captured global headlines; on the "Pakistani chapters" of al-Qaeda; and draws a sharp distinction between "historic" al-Qaeda and the new, Pakistani-dominated Jihad International Inc. He also examines the crucial, myriad links - and ominous implications - involving Afghanistan and Kashmir, rarely addressed by Western media ("the two jihads have always been two sides of the same coin"). His analysis is guaranteed to provide US President Barack Obama's AfPak planners countless white nights. Pepe Escobar: Pakistan's army leaders have been masters of the double game since the 1980s. Could you briefly describe how they deploy their stealth? Arif Jamal: Actually, the strategy of playing a double game is as old as the country. When British India was partitioned into two dominions in 1947, Pakistan faced an enemy in India which was several times bigger, more populated, resourceful and most importantly militarily more powerful. It was not good sense to take on a far more powerful enemy in a conventional military way. Pakistani military strategist Colonel Akbar Khan conceived the concept of jihad to offset the lack of military balance between the two emerging enemies. Akbar Khan's concept of jihad was no more than subversion in the enemy country, but it was couched in jihadi terms. He himself took over the grand-sounding name of a Muslim conqueror as his nom de guerre. >From that time onwards, the Pakistani military leaders kept inciting the local Muslim population in the Indian-controlled state of Jammu and Kashmir to subversion and turning subversion into a guerrilla war until 1980, when they decided to wage a real jihad in Afghanistan [against the Soviets]. At the same time, Pakistan never abandoned the diplomatic option of resolving its conflicts with India. The Pakistan army supported a full-scale anti-Soviet jihad or subversive guerrilla war in Afghanistan. Publicly, Pakistan denied any support to the Afghan mujahideen. The only time Pakistan claimed responsibility for subversion in a neighboring country was when the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan [in 1989]. It was a victory for the jihad policy. Pakistan intensified its military and financial support to Kashmiri jihadis at the end of the 1980s and kept supporting the Afghan mujahideen even after the withdrawal of the Soviets, but never admitted doing so. Pakistan continued the same policy even after the 9/11 terrorist attacks [in the US]. On the one hand, it joined the US-led anti-terror coalition and on the other hand it kept supporting the jihadis in Kashmir and the Taliban in Afghanistan. At best, under [President] General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's actions against terrorists were selective. PE: Was the operation in Swat Valley [this year] nothing but a big show put up by the army for the benefit of Washington - of course, with the "collateral damage" of displacing 3.4 million people? AJ: It appears so more and more with the passage of time. In the beginning, it appeared they were serious in eliminating the terrorists there. However, knowingly or unknowingly, they gave enough time to top terrorists like Sufi Mohammad and Maulana Fazlullah and their followers to escape. As a result, the terrorists disappeared from Swat Valley but re-emerged elsewhere. Parts of Swat Valley and other areas where the TNSM [the banned pro-Taliban Tehrik-Nifaz-i-Shariat-i-Mohammadi - Movement for the Enforcement of Islamic Laws] had established its control may have fallen back to the military, but the terrorists can always come back. Swat Valley is not in the tribal areas. It would have made a lot of sense if they had quietly encircled Swat Valley before the operation so that nobody could escape. The Swat operation has created such a huge refugee problem that it may defeat every sincere effort to smash terrorism. I do not know whether the military created this crisis knowingly as part of their double game or because of a bad counter-terrorism strategy. If they let that happen unknowingly, it is still more dangerous. This would mean that they are not capable of carrying out anti-terrorist operations even if they are willing to. PE: Can you expand on the strategic importance of Swat as a corridor linking Pakistani Kashmir and Afghanistan? AJ: Swat's strategic importance is that it lies somewhere between the borders of Afghanistan and Kashmir. If the "Taliban" get entrenched here, they can spread from there in every direction, ultimately linking Afghanistan and Kashmir through one or more corridors. The terrorists from Kashmir and Afghanistan would be able to freely move between the two. The differences between the jihadis in Afghanistan and those in Kashmir would go and they would unite under one jihadi command. Muslim extremists would emerge a lot stronger as a result. The Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan would establish new sanctuaries in the Himalayas from where they would carry out attacks on Western forces in Afghanistan and elsewhere. It would be a lot more difficult to fight and dislodge them from the Himalayas than from Afghanistan. PE: Whoever was responsible for the recent bombing in Lahore of an Inter-Services Intelligence facility had very good on-the-ground intel on the ISI - not surprisingly, considering the Taliban were "invented" by the ISI in the first part of the 1990s. It has been speculated that the bombing was planned and financed by al-Qaeda, with logistical support by Kashmiri guerrillas and with Pakistan Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud's TTP [Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan] group contributing with suicide bombers. Sounds like a CIA fantasy scenario. Any truth to it? AJ: We do not know and probably will never know for sure who carried out the recent bombing in Lahore in which an important Brelvi cleric, Sarfraz Naeemi, died. The investigating agencies in Pakistan rarely finish the investigations in such cases. One or more Pakistani chapters of al-Qaeda may have been behind it. The Pakistani chapters of al-Qaeda such as the Jaish-i-Mohammad and different factions of the former Harakatul Ansaar have operated in Pakistan freely even after 9/11. General Musharraf's regime never took any action against them under the false pretext that they were not fighting in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the West also did not consider them part of al-Qaeda because they were primarily engaged in the jihad in Kashmir. The reality was that the Pakistani Deobandi jihadis, such as Maulana Masood Azhar and Maulana Fazlur Rehman Khalil, were the human links between the jihad in Kashmir and the jihad in Afghanistan. The two jihads have always been two sides of the same coin. PE: Baitullah Mehsud seems to have been converted into the new Osama bin Laden. What's fact and fiction? Is he really the new emir of Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas [FATA]? Is he really the top "al-Qaeda facilitator", according to CIA spin? What sort of "Kashmiris" are collaborating with him? What does he really want? AJ: Jihad International Inc continuously needs a figurehead. Baitullah Mehsud was catapulted into the new Bin Laden role a couple of years ago because Jihad International Inc appeared to be losing the war in the absence of a figurehead such as Bin Laden. The ISI had fielded him to counter the growing influence of Abdullah Mehsud, who was spinning out of ISI control. Abdullah Mehsud had deviated from the given script by kidnapping Chinese citizens in Pakistan. Now, Baitullah Mehsud also seems to have spun out of their control. Hence, he also has to be eliminated, and be replaced. Baitullah Mehsud won the first battle against the ISI by having another terrorist, Qari Zainuddin, murdered, who had been propped up by the ISI to take the place of Baitullah Mehsud. This is a flawed policy. Every terrorist has the tendency to spin out of control. If Qari Zainuddin had succeeded, he would have emerged a more dreaded terrorist and would have spun out of his handlers' control. To answer the last part of your question, I would say that many Pakistani jihadi groups have joined Baitullah Mehsud and others have established links with his organization. PE: Is al-Qaeda using Kashmiris in FATA and North-West Frontier Province [NWFP]? AJ: Al-Qaeda in the shape of the Jaish-i-Mohammad, Harakatul Jihad Islami and Harakatul Mujahideen has been operating in Pakistan despite formal bans. They were allowed to operate because they also waged jihad in Kashmir as well. As support for militancy dwindled in Kashmir, they went to the FATA to wage jihad against the state of Pakistan. "Kashmiris" from the Valley of Kashmir are mostly not interested in international jihad. Their jihad is aimed at liberating their state from India. The only Kashmiri group from the valley interested in global jihad is the Hizbul Mujahideen. PE: According to your best estimates, how many Saudi jihadis are roaming around FATA? And what about Uzbek and Chechen gun experts? Is "historic" al-Qaeda, with Bin Laden dead or not dead, now playing a sort of very long-range, behind-the-scenes, "wiser" advisory role? AJ: They are probably in the hundreds. They keep coming and going. But, that is surely not the question. They are not playing leading parts. It is the Pakistani jihadis who are assuming leadership roles. The historic al-Qaeda may or may not be dead, but it has definitely gone in the background. The new Jihad International Inc appears to be aiming at Pakistan rather than at the West. It seems to be trying to take over Islamabad and to turn it into a springboard for global jihad. The difference between the "historic" al-Qaeda and the new Jihad International Inc is that the latter is dominated by Pakistani jihadis while the former was Arab-oriented with an Arab, Bin Laden, at the top. The other difference is that new Jihad International Inc is aiming at India as a primary target while al-Qaeda under Bin Laden wanted to destroy America. PE: What's the potential for the TTP to really threaten Peshawar [capital of NWFP], considering that Peshawar is not Talibanized, and mostly voted for a Pashtun nationalist party last year? The TTP has a lot of potential for destruction in Pakistan, but cannot occupy any part of it without the support from rogue elements in the state. After all, they do not take over territory through elections. Khyber Agency was very liberal before the ISI started supporting the Lashkar-i-Islam led by Mufti Shakir and Mangal Bagh. Khyber Agency had returned a very liberal lawmaker, Lateef Afridi, to parliament. When the TTP thought it right to take over Peshawar, the ANP [Pashtun nationalist Awami National Party] would simply evaporate in the air. The ANP leaders are already living in virtual hiding. But this would not happen without active support from rogue elements in the state. PE: The Taliban in Pakistan are a social movement as well. They seem to strike a chord with the general population when they portray Islamabad as a puppet of US imperialism and Zionism. But if Islamabad manages to portray the Pakistani Taliban as merely a terrorist group, do you think that would be enough to win the battle for Pakistanis' hearts and minds? AJ: The Zardari-Gillani government [President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gillani] won the hearts and minds of the people when they won elections [last year]. The propaganda against the democratically elected government comes from sympathizers of the Taliban in the media and politics. These Islamists feel more comfortable under military rule. The vast majority of Pakistanis never supported terrorism in any form. PE: What's substantially wrong with US President Obama's AfPak strategy? Did he get his priorities right? How come he doesn't even mention Kashmir? AJ: The Obama administration is not striking very hard on the source of global jihad, which is the jihad in Kashmir. My sense is the Obama administration understands the issue of terrorism more than the [George W] Bush administration. But, it seems to have accepted pressure from India, and is not mentioning the Kashmir conflict. The earlier idea of appointing a special envoy to Kashmir was a brilliant idea and abandoning it, I think, is the biggest mistake they are making. The Pakistani military will not stop supporting jihad in Kashmir without the resolution of the Kashmir conflict. Pakistan and India cannot resolve the Kashmir conflict without active involvement of America. Meanwhile, the jihad in Kashmir will keep giving birth to global jihadis. PE: To what measure are the US Predator drone war on FATA, the heaps of "collateral damage", the contemptuous Pentagon denials, the connivance of Zardari's government, Pakistan's "national sovereignty" in tatters, leading towards either Talibanization or at least a movement for the emergence of Pashtunistan? Will Pakistan eventually break up? AJ: I do not think that the drone attacks are leading to more "Talibanization" or a nationalist movement for Pashtunistan. But, unfortunately, they are not helping to curb the rise of extremism either. They are at best a short-term solution to stop Taliban attacks inside Afghanistan from Pakistani territory. They are not a long-term solution either. It is only the sympathizers of the Taliban who pose as liberals who are spreading this false theory. This theory ignores the reality that Talibanization pre-existed the drone attacks. Islamic extremism or what they mistakenly call Talibanization in the West is directly opposed to Pashtun nationalism. It is eroding Pashtun nationalism in a big way. The most favorite targets of the "Taliban" include symbols of Pashtun nationalism, like the tomb of saint-poet Rehman Baba, which they have bombed out, as well as schools, artists' houses, etc. I do not even think that the drones are attacks on Pakistan's sovereignty. The Americans are carrying out drone attacks in the Pakistani tribal belt with the knowledge and support of the Pakistani government, especially the military. They should be considered joint operations. It is another kind of double game Pakistan is playing; helping the Americans to carry out drone attacks secretly and denying it publicly. Contrarily, it is the rise of Islamic extremism that is eroding the sovereignty of Pakistan. Many parts of the country are directly under the control of the extremists, where they apply sharia law. Is this not erosion of sovereignty? In reality, the state is continuously receding in the background. When the Taliban send a letter to an audio-video market in Lahore, the traders come out and make a bonfire of "un-Islamic" videotapes" to avoid Taliban attacks. Is this not erosion of Pakistani sovereignty? On the call of the Taliban, the banks in Peshawar ask their employees to stop wearing Western dresses because it is un-Islamic. Where is Pakistan's so-called sovereignty in this case? The Taliban are asking non-Muslim minorities like Sikhs and Hindus to pay jyzia, an Islamic tax, in some parts of the country. That is the real attack on Pakistan's sovereignty. PE: You see jihad expanding to the borders of Jammu and Kashmir in India, in the east, and Afghanistan in the west. The outcome of all this would mean jihadis moving freely between Kashmir and Afghanistan. Is this plan A for the ISI and the Pakistani army, with no plan B? AJ: The ISI is very good at adapting to emerging situations. Most of their plans do not work as intended. It is neither plan A, nor plan B. I think it is an unintended result of the privatization of jihad. The Pakistani military had been privatizing jihad in Kashmir from the very beginning, and later in Afghanistan in the 1980s. After 9/11, the ISI further privatized jihad and outsourced it to former ISI officers. Parts of NWFP like the Khyber Agency were outsourced to a former ISI officer, Major Amir (retired), who came into limelight when he tried to destabilize the first Benazir Bhutto government in 1989-90. Under ISI pressure, he was retired but not punished. He again came into the limelight when the Nawaz Sharif government unearthed an ISI plot, known as Midnight Jackals, to destabilize his government. Major Amir is the brother of Maulana Mohammad Tayyab, who heads an extremist Takfiri group, Jamat Ishaat Al Tauheed Wal Sunnah, popularly known as Panjpiris. This group was deeply involved in the rise of the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and the TNSM. The group seems to be working at joining the two jihads. The two brothers played important roles in the formation of the TTP and the radicalization of the TNSM. TTP leader Maulana Faqir Mohammad is their follower and studied in their madrassa [Islamic seminary] in Swabi [in NWFP]. The conclusion is that even former ISI officers tend to deviate from the given script and spin out of control. PE: Is there any support left - by people living on both sides of the Line of Control [LoC] that separates Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistan-administered Kashmir - for jihad? Or will this continue to be just an ISI obsession? AJ: Unfortunately, there is still a lot of support for jihad on both sides of the LoC. The ISI has been exploiting this support and will continue to do so until the Kashmir conflict is resolved for good. PE: What's the ultimate solution for Kashmir? What does the majority, on both sides of the LoC, really want? And who's more flexible, those living in India or in Pakistan? AJ: It is too premature to talk of an ultimate solution. The Kashmir conflict is too complex to talk about in just an interview. The real issue is that India is not ready to deviate from its position and Pakistan is not ready to accept the status quo as the solution. Once both countries are ready for a solution, finding a solution will not be a problem. There are a few dozen of them. The majority of the people in the erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir may want to join Pakistan, but that would not be fair to the large majority of people in the Jammu and Ladakh regions. The two states should resolve their territorial conflict in a diplomatic way. Religion should not be allowed to determine the international borders once again, after 62 years. Note 1. Shadow War: The Untold Story of Jihad in Kashmir (Hardcover) by Arif Jamal, Melville House (May 19, 2009). ISBN-10: 193363359X. Price US$26.95, 352 pages. Pepe Escobar is the author of Globalistan: How the Globalized World is Dissolving into Liquid War (Nimble Books, 2007) and Red Zone Blues: a snapshot of Baghdad during the surge. His new book, just out, is Obama does Globalistan (Nimble Books, 2009). He may be reached at pepeasia at yahoo.com. http://shininglight.us/archives/2009/07/kashmir_ground_zero_of_global_jihad.php From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 12:29:24 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:29:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against proposal for land reclamation Message-ID: <3457ce860907172359o25f4ed90pf32823874d44f401@mail.gmail.com> *Protest against proposal for land reclamation * *Date:18/07/2009* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2009/07/18/stories/2009071852670600.htm* Special Correspondent Thiruvananthapuram: Fishworkers from across the district participated in a dharna organised by the Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) in front of the Secretariat here on Friday in protest against the move to reclaim 5,000 hectares from the sea off the Veli-Thumba stretch of the coast. Inaugurating the dharna, KSMTF State president T.Peter said fishworkers would mobilise themselves to resist the proposal mooted by the Kerala Industrial Infrastructure Development Corporation (Kinfra). He said the project would deprive thousands of fishworkers of their livelihood. “Reclamation of 5,000 hectares will require dredging of another 5,000 hectares. This will lead to irreversible environmental impact on the land as well as the sea. The project will also deplete fish stocks and expose other areas of the coast to increased erosion,” he said. KSMTF leaders Anto Elias, J.P.John, Freesca Kurisappan, Maglene Peter, Patrick Fernandez and Jensila Antony also addressed the dharna. Kinfra had invited bids for consultancy to prepare a pre-feasibility report on the reclamation project that seeks to create the required area for expansion of the international airport, in addition to providing for housing and commercial development along the waterfront, with attractive leisure, recreation and entertainment facilities and open spaces. Infiltration Fishworkers maintain that the reclamation of land from the sea near the Thumba coast would open up an infiltration route for terrorists, posing a major security threat for the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC). They also claim that it would be a violation of the Coastal Regulation Zone norms. Kinfra sources, however, observe that an agitation against the project at this stage was unwarranted. They point out that the pre-feasibility study was aimed at assessing the impact of the project on the environment as well as the livelihood of the coastal communities. “The government can drop the proposal if any negative impact is reported by the study,” a Kinfra spokesman said. http://www.keralafishworkers.org http://www.alakal.net From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 12:46:15 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:46:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907180016q29addd82s251bf1cf9653f9c6@mail.gmail.com> http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/17/guest-why-kashmir-has-no-case-for-self-determination.htm Self-determination is a lyrical, mesmerising phrase that sparks the fire in a revolutionary and excites the cerebral neurons of a libertarian, galvanising both into frenzied activity. But self-determination shorn of its prerequisites and mindless of its implications can prove to be a toxic, self-mutilating instrument with deleterious consequences for its protagonists and antagonists. Nowhere is this more evident than in the case of Kashmir where it holds an uncertain future for its proponents in the Valley and can be the axiom that seriously erodes the basic fabric of India's Constitution. Self-determination in quest of a new nation-State cannot be a whim but must be a proposition grounded in solid reason. There must be justifiable cause to advocate separation. Do Kashmiri Muslim aspirations qualify for legitimate independence or is this brouhaha nothing more than a devious design by a majority to establish its hegemony? The recent events in Kashmir are a microcosm of the movement itself: much ado about nothing. Acutely conscious of its waning influence and sensing a general apathy towards separatist fervour, as evidenced by the successful conduct of the recently concluded Lok Sabha elections, the Hurriyat is in a tizzy, resorting to obfuscatory tactics to remain relevant. How else can you explain its tendency to impart an anti-Indian hue to each and every untoward incident that occurs in the Valley? The immediate trigger for the latest spate of protests in Srinagar [ Images ] appears to be the alleged murder of Asrar Mushtaq Dar, a 20-year-old student who went missing on July 3 and whose mutilated body was found in a city graveyard on July 8. Details of the murder are still sketchy and the identity of the culprits is yet to be ascertained. But that really doesn't matter. For in the charged and biased atmosphere of the Valley, any unnatural death becomes a cause celebre to whip up anti-India sentiments and implicate the security forces, ethics being an expendable appendage in the process. Prior to this was the Shopian incident in which two young women, Neelofar Jan and her sister-in-law Asiya Jan, were found raped and murdered on May 30. While a judicial inquiry called for an 'in-depth investigation' and stated that 'there is material on file to hold that the involvement of some agency of the J&K police cannot be completely ruled out', it went on to give details of a possible family angle to the twin murders as the following news excerpt with verbatim quotes from the commission's report indicates (Shopian panel even suspects victim. Majid Jahangir. Kashmir Live, July 11): The police isn't the only target. The report calls for a probe into the "rift" between the family of Neelofar and her in-laws. The fact that Neelofar, a woman from the upper-caste Peer family, eloped with Shakeel Ahmad Ahangar -- who belongs to a family of blacksmiths -- is also cited as a subject for further probe. The report calls for a detailed investigation into the possible role of Neelofar's estranged brother, Zeerak Shah, a police constable. "It is required that sustained questioning/interrogation of Zeerak Shah, his associates and relatives, be carried out so as to work out the possibility of their involvement in rape and murder of Neelofar and Asiya Jan". The commission also puts a question mark on the conduct of Shakeel Ahmad Ahangar, Neelofar's husband and Asiya's brother. Claiming that he is 'known for his immoral activities', the report says: 'His assets are quite disproportionate to his known source of income, thus requiring in-depth investigation to work out the possibility of Shakeel and his friends/associates in the present incident'. Then the report goes on to even suspect the victims themselves. 'Spot inspection of the orchard reveals that the orchard is fenced with CGI sheets from three sides and there is no proper gate for entry into the orchard. There are about 35 small and big fruit trees, without any pruning/cutting and ground is full of weeds. The purpose of their regular and frequent visit to the orchard could not be established so far... It is quite possible that during these frequent visits to the orchard in last six/seven months, they (but more particularly Neelofar Jan) might have developed some relation with other persons.' Another recent death being exploited to keep the pot boiling involves the death of a young woman who was allegedly molested and killed by a Territorial Army jawan, Ashiq Hussain. Far from being an example of police brutality as portrayed by the Hurriyat, this incident as well has shades of a family wrangle. Below is a statement by the Srinagar police: 'The accused was known to the family of the deceased and is related to the family. An expert team has been constituted to conduct the post mortem in a fair and transparent manner. The investigation is on.' (Kashmir Live. Valley on boil, jawan held for girl's death. July 10) These three incidents, apart from indicating a state of moral bankruptcy, define everything that is wrong with the Kashmir movement. Devoid of just cause, the Hurriyat has no qualms of blatantly distorting facts to make its case; a case that becomes even weaker when viewed from a historical or demographic perspective and when evaluated in terms of the monetary subsidy that Kashmir receives from the central government. India is a vast mosaic with cultural and ethnic variations; all areas despite their distinctive characteristics have been successfully moulded together to create an impressive pluralistic state that celebrates diversity but yet maintains a powerful adhesive that irrevocably and voluntarily binds every state together. A shade of cultural variation alone cannot be the basis for a call to secede; a concept if applied universally would engender a thousand mutinies and splinter India into a thousand fragments, dispossessing millions of their rights and displacing multitudes from their homes. Traditionally Kashmir has never been an island distinct from the rest of the country. Its very origin is steeped in the composite mythology of the land as expounded in the Nilmat Puran. For aeons Kashmir has been inextricably intertwined spiritually with the rest of India, or Bharatvarsha as it was known, marking the northern outpost of its reaches as exemplified in the eight century by the extent of Shankaracharya's religious expanse. Today, Shankaracharya Hill, a majestic mound overlooking the capital Srinagar, marks the site of Shankaracharya's stay in Kashmir and is a standing testimony to Kashmir's inseparable bond with India. Tradition and mythology apart, Kashmir with its innumerable holy shrines holds special significance to Hindus of present day India. For instance, my 78-year-old aunt who lives in a small town near the Karnataka-Maharastra border travelled thousands of miles to pay homage at Amarnath. Notwithstanding Article 370, what this exemplifies is the legitimate moral right to Kashmir of every Indian regardless of which part he or she resides in. Setting aside ideology and tradition that can be brushed off as subjective banter, let us focus on tangible economics of current times to counter the polemics of our egalitarian naysayers. Is Kashmir the impoverished, neglected stepchild of an authoritarian state? Is India guilty of not providing adequate funds for its development? The answer is in the negative. I quote from an article by Vir Singhvi, (CounterPoint. Hindustan Times, August 16, 2008): 'Then, there is the money. Bihar gets per capita central assistance of Rs 876 per year. Kashmir gets over ten times more: Rs 9,754 per year. While in Bihar and other states, this assistance is mainly in the forms of loans to the state, in Kashmir 90 per cent is an outright grant. Kashmir's entire Five Year Plan expenditure is met by the Indian taxpayer. In addition, New Delhi [ Images ] keeps throwing more and more money at the state: in 2004, the prime minister gave Kashmir another $5 billion for development. Kashmiris are happy to take the money and the special rights but they argue that India has been unfair to them ' So Kashmir, despite getting more than its share of economic booty even at the cost of other more needy and deserving states like Bihar, unfairly feigns ill-treatment. The state of Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] does have a religious configuration that is at variance with the rest of the country. It is the only Muslim majority state in the Union, with Muslims making up 64 percent of the combined population of J&K. The Hindu population stands at 33 percent with the remaining 3 percent accounted for by Sikhs and Buddhists. Across J&K, the Muslim majority is significant but not overwhelming enough to warrant a separate identity. It is in the Valley which constitutes a mere 16 percent of the state's land mass that one finds a marked demographic homogeneity: Muslims form 99.9 percent of the population. And, not surprisingly, from this Islamic dominance stems the call for autonomy from predominantly Hindu India. At the outset this may seem like a valid assertion but one that nullifies itself when scrutinised closely. The perceived homogeneity is the outcome of centuries of coercive religious policies instituted by fanatical despots and the forced expulsion of Kashmiri Pandits in recent times. However, for the sake of debate, let us concentrate primarily on recent demographic manipulation. The Global IDP project of the Norwegian Refugee Council is an international non-governmental body working for the welfare of internally displaced people. Their records indicate that close to 350,000 Kashmiri Pandits have been displaced from the Valley, constituting more than 90 percent of the Hindu population of Kashmir. Data from the National Human Rights Commission indicates that Kashmiri Pandits constituted 15 percent of the population in 1941. In 1991 this number stood at 0.1 percent: these figures are self-explanatory. Can a consensus derived by the forcible eradication of dissent be a valid basis to call for self-determination? And were a referendum to be held today, would the results be valid or abrogated as one tainted with a rigging of sorts? This forced eradication of Hindus from the scene has sullied the milieu and disrupted the gradient of the playing field. Self-determination in this setting fulfils neither democratic values nor ethical principles. A democratic proviso cannot be invoked by a people after indulging in an exercise that is the very antithesis of such a concept. Granting Kashmiris the right to secede is fraught with serious repercussions for the rest of the country. A nation must exhibit and sustain a uniform ethical code to maintain its credibility and function effectively. Shorn of the pretentious façade of self-determination, the Kashmir movement boils down to what it basically is: a charade, replete with deliberate misinformation, subtle coercion and outright religious discrimination, all with an intention of extracting an unfair advantage and fulfilling its ultimate goal of fundamentalist Islamic state. That has always been the goal despite sanctimonious protestations to the contrary. Moreover, the endpoint of this Machiavellian gameplan in Kashmir is an azadi whose definition is vague. A choice between accession to a failed, anarchic State with less liberty and security than what they possess, or a landlocked unsustainable sovereign status: a Hobson's choice. A people are being misled and a country held to ransom to fulfill the evil designs of a fundamentalist, fanatical clique that has little regard for rules or norms. The earlier the Indian nation realises this, the better. What the people of Kashmir need is not freedom from India but an enlightenment that clears their cloudy perception and releases them from the clutches of terrorism, religious fundamentalism and unscrupulous politicians, and making them law-abiding citizens of a democratic, secular and economically resurgent nation: a win-win situation. But till this happens we need to confront the demons in our midst with a firm hand and a focussed mind. There can be no room for laxity or vacillation in dealing with separatists, if the nation has to salvage any remaining credibility. It is time to call their bluff. On a practical level, in India today, it is hard to segregate one community from another or one region from another because centuries of intermixing have created a complex interplay of dependencies and obligations that make such a move impractical for governance, culturally crass and morally declasse. Vivek Gumaste From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Jul 18 13:15:38 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:15:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India: End Manipur Killings (Human Rights Watch Report) Message-ID: India: End Manipur Killings Repeal Law That Gives the Military License for Violence July 17, 2009 (New York) - The Manipur state government in northeastern India should act to end a cycle of unpunished violence, including killings, by security forces and armed groups, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch said that urgent action is needed by the Indian government to support this process by repealing the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, which has facilitated serious security force abuse for many years. A government-appointed review committee recommended the repeal in 2004, but the government has yet to act. "The situation in Manipur is nothing less than a breakdown in the rule of law," said Meenakshi Ganguly, South Asia researcher at Human Rights Watch. "Repealing the Armed Forces Special Powers Act would help to put an end to the abductions, torture, and killings, and help restore people's confidence in the government." Local human rights groups have documented several killings in Manipur in recent months in which the killers are alleged to be members of the security forces. The Special Powers Act gives members of the armed forces broad authority to search, arrest, and shoot-to-kill - and protects them from prosecution. The culture of violence perpetuated by this law has become so deeply rooted that the police now routinely commit the same kinds of abuses long practiced by the army and state paramilitary forces. In several cases, security forces allegedly robbed and killed people, but then claimed that the deaths resulted from "encounters" - shootouts with armed groups. On the morning of June 20, 2009, for example, Waikom Kenedy and Thokchom Samarjit disappeared on their way to an educational institution in Imphal, Manipur's capital. That afternoon, their families learned that both had been killed by Manipur police commandos. The police admitted to the killings, but claimed they occurred during an armed encounter. The relatives believe that the men were robbed of their cash and a heavy gold chain, and then killed. On January 14, Naorem Robindro left his home with cash to pay a rent deposit, but never returned. His family recovered his body from the morgue, where the police had left it, claiming he was a militant. A joint team of police and members of the paramilitary Assam Rifles said Robindro was killed in an armed encounter. The family believes he was killed for the cash he was carrying and a gold ring and chain, all of which were missing from his body. On November 7, 2008, Ajit Singh and Yumna Binoy Meitei set out with the equivalent of over US$4,000 in Indian rupees to buy business materials. When they failed to come home, relatives went to check two bodies that a joint team of police and members of the 39th Assam Rifles alleged were militants killed in an encounter. The families identified the bodies as those of the two men, whose money was missing. On December 20, Mohammad Islamuddin was carrying the equivalent of nearly US$1,000 in cash to purchase construction materials for his house, when he failed to return home or answer his mobile phone. The next morning, newspapers reported the killing of two unidentified militants by the police. One proved to be Islamuddin; the second was his friend, Mohammad Azad, who had gone along to help with the purchases. The money was missing. "The security forces have a long history of faking ‘encounters,'" said Ganguly. "The central government should order an independent investigation into these killings." In a September 2008 report, "These Fellows Must Be Eliminated," Human Rights Watch documented human rights abuses by all sides in Manipur, where close to 20,000 people have been killed since separatist rebels began their movement in the 1950s. The title of the report is a quote from the Manipur police chief, who told Human Rights Watch that many of the militants were not political fighters but petty extortionists or criminals who should be "eliminated." In this environment, members of the security forces apparently believe that it is acceptable to kill suspects instead of pursuing prosecutions through the legal system. "Unexplained killings attributed to the security forces or armed groups have become common in an increasingly lawless Manipur state," said Ganguly. "The state and central governments can restore some public confidence by getting serious about investigating and prosecuting these killings and ensuring that justice is done." Nearly 30 armed groups are estimated to operate in Manipur. Some have such a strong hold over Manipuri society that ordinary citizens have been forced to build alliances with them to ensure protection from others. The government's failure to end the lawlessness has also encouraged corruption and common crime. The armed groups routinely extract "taxes" from people, even including government officials, and carry out abductions for ransom. The armed groups have also been implicated in killings. On the morning of February 13, Thingnam Kishan Singh, an administrative official with the Manipur government, left Imphal with other staff members for a meeting in the adjoining Ukhrul district. He failed to turn up for the meeting, answer calls, or return home the following day as scheduled. On February 16, Singh's family was informed by the authorities that he and his colleagues had been abducted by the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (IM), an armed group. The next day, the bodies of Singh, his driver, Aribam Rajen Sharma, and his associate, Yumnam Token Singh, were recovered by the authorities. According to his relatives, the NSCN (IM) had earlier made extortion demands on Singh, and has claimed responsibility for the killings. "Five decades of rights violations by the government security forces don't justify the killings and extortion by armed groups in Manipur," said Ganguly. "These groups share the blame for Manipur's lawlessness." From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Jul 18 13:41:27 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:41:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907180016q29addd82s251bf1cf9653f9c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907180016q29addd82s251bf1cf9653f9c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <88d4dd4f75a9043042a34668795ca954@sarai.net> Dear All, The case for, or against, self-determination, has to rest, finally, not in what others think, but in what those who desire the determination of their own destinies, believe. Either we take a democratic principle seriously, or we do not. Either we believe that a popular majority's acquiescence to a form of sovereignty makes sense, or it does not. My stand on the question of 'self-determination' for Kashmir has nothing to do with an argument for, or, against the possibility or necessity or desirability of a Kashmiri nation-state. That is not for me to judge. Nor is it for anyone other than those who will be its willing or unwilling subjects. My position is simple. If the majority of the people of the Kashmir valley (please note that I am not talking of Jammu or Ladakh) believe that they should not stay within the Indian union, then, it is undemocratic to force them to stay. If, however, they demonstrate in a free, fair referendum, conducted by a neutral body, attended upon by international observers, that in fact they wish to stay within the Indian union. Then, it would be equally undemocratic to have them secede. The Indian government, when it took the Kashmir issue to the United Nations, promised such a referendum. It has not kept to that promise. If it does so, then the matter can be easily settled. Finally, just because we don't agree with what the majority of a people believe in, does not mean that we have the right to foist decisions alien to their will upon them. Kashmiri self-determination may be self-delusional, it may not be. But that is not anyone other than the people of Kashmir can, or should decide, for them, or on their behalf. I may find Hindu or Islamic fundamentalism distasteful, and I will struggle against it passionately, but if, theoretically, the majority of the people were to accede to Fundamentalism, I would have to accept that this is in fact a reflection of their democratically expressed will. My job would then be to argue with them, consistently, clearly, passionately, if necessary, forever. If it is patently clear that their will has been subverted, as it has been recently in Iran (or in the staged 'elections' that were held in Kashmir in 1987, which inaugurated the current more than two decade long period of unrest) then a commitment to democratic principles would have to mean a struggle to restore that will. Vivek Gumaste has invoked many arguments in his text, but not a single one of them actually attempts to engage with what the question of the will of the majority of the Kashmir valley. Until a proper engagement with that question is undertaken, every argument for the forcible retention of the Kashmir, whether undertaken on pragmatic or idealistic grounds, need to be seen for what it would end up being - the ornaments of tyranny. best, Shuddha > Self-determination is a lyrical, mesmerising phrase that sparks the > fire in a revolutionary and excites the cerebral neurons of a > libertarian, galvanising both into frenzied activity. But > self-determination shorn of its prerequisites and mindless of its > implications can prove to be a toxic, self-mutilating instrument with > deleterious consequences for its protagonists and antagonists. Nowhere > is this more evident than in the case of Kashmir where it holds an > uncertain future for its proponents in the Valley and can be the axiom > that seriously erodes the basic fabric of India's Constitution. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 18 15:10:07 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:40:07 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 30 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907180240i54cd8b0elc726fb38cf353501@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=9520 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF LAW , JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 2874 TO BE ANSWERED ON 10.08.2000 PHOTO IDENTITY CARDS IN GUJARAT 2874. SHRI CHANDRESH PATEL KORDIA Will the Minister of LAW , JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS be pleased to state:- (a) whether all the voters in Gujarat have been provided Photo identity cards, particularly in Jamnagar district; (b) if so, the details thereof; and (c) the time by which every voter is likely to be provided the Photo identity card? ANSWER MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) AND THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY) (a) No, Sir. (b) and (c) : Out of the total of 2,96,31,636 voters in Gujarat, the number of persons issued with defect free photo identity cards so far is 2,31,77,051 (78.22%). In Jamnagar district, out of 10,77,594 voters, 8,15,403 have been issued defect free cards. In this connection, it may be noted that the process of registration of voters and preparation of photo identity cards of voters are continuous and ongoing processes. It is not, therefore, possible to cover all the voters under the scheme of issue of photo identity cards at any given point of time. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 18 15:57:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:27:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 31 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907180327p32cf1080l8ceea9b3bcc5094a@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=32732 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 3487 ANSWERED ON 11.12.2001 MULTI-PURPOSE IDENTITY CARDS FOR INDIAN CITIZENS 3487 . Shri N.T. SHANMUGAM BHAVANA PUNDLIKRAO GAWALI (a) Whether the Government propose to issue Multi-purpose National Identity Cards to Indian Citizens; (b) if so, the details thereof; (c) whether the Government have commissioned a detailed feasibility study of National Identity Cards system through a professional consultancy firm; (d) if so, the present status of the feasibility study; (e) the time by which this card system is likely to be put into effect; and (f) the likely utility of the photo identity card presently issued by the Election Commission of India in this context? ANSWER THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO) (a) to (f): Yes, Sir. The Government proposes to issue multipurpose National Identity Cards to Indian citizens, which, apart from providing a credible identification system, would also have multifarious socio-economic uses. The Government had entrusted the task of preparation of a feasibility study report to a professional consultancy firm for the issue of Multipurpose National Identity Cards to the Indian citizens. The detailed report received from the firm has covered aspects relating to the creation of an identification system of one billion people, streamlining of the machinery for the registration of births and deaths at the Panchayat level and institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an integrated data base of personal identities capable of being continuously updated. The Government will finalise its decision only after an in-depth examination of all relevant issues and after necessary preparations are made for launching the system, including giving legal backing to the scheme. The photo identity card issued by the Election Commission of India is not a universal system of identification based on compulsory registration of Indian citizens or registration of birth and death. From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Jul 18 16:03:52 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:03:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Commonwealth Games? Message-ID: <09F1C227-5049-4C73-B66E-6B36FB8EBDD4@sarai.net> dear all, here is an interesting interview with ex-sports minister in the earlier govt. some of the details in this interview are very interesting in the context of mega event of Games. best jeebesh PS: i got this interview from yamuna jiye abhiyan Mani Shankar Aiyar interview: Q. Could you clarify your position on Delhi hosting the Commonwealth Games? A. My position is the same now as it was when I was Sports Minister. Extravaganzas like these are totally inappropriate for countries as desperately poor as ourselves. There are those who wish to brush under the carpet the 836 million Indians who live on under Rs 20 a day and portray India as a great economic power. I suppose there are a few misguided people like myself who think that these people should be counted. Q. What about the Games made it such an important issue for you? A. The glitter and glamour of Games like this project a false impression of India abroad, but worse, gives us a false impression of ourselves and distracts from national tasks to which we should be addressing our attention. That is why my spell as Sports Minister was one of the unhappiest periods of my life and I remain very grateful to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that he accepted my request to relinquish to post. Q. What were your goals when you were Sports Minister? A. What I wanted to do was produce a sports policy that actually brought games and sporting activities to that 70% of the population that are defined as the youth of India – all people under 40. I prepared a draft comprehensive sports policy at the insistence of the Prime Minister, but the very week it came up in Cabinet I was dropped from the Ministry and it was never considered by the Cabinet. The result is that during events like this, we don’t have the distinction of winning medals. All we want to do is have this sporting extravaganza where virtually no medals will come our way, and what will come our way is because great sporting nations like China are not in the Commonwealth. I don’t think we should link our national honour to being a giant amongst pygmies. Q. The GOI is spending Rs 7000-10,000 crore on the Commonwealth Games. Do you see this as money well spent? A. You are totally misguided if you think that is all that is being spent. The actual figure is much higher than that. There is a huge amount of infrastructure that is being built only for the Games. Should our infrastructure be directed by the needs of the Commonwealth Games or through a well-considered view of the needs of the city and the demands it suffers from? Then there is the question of, why Delhi? Delhi is the richest city in the country, with the best existing infrastructure. If all this money was being invested in Mayiladuthurai, then maybe I would give up my objections. Q. Do you know what government programmes were denied funding to allocate this money to the CWG? A. Don’t ask me. Last year I had worked out a scheme for desilting water tanks with the help of the panchayats. We sought Rs 2000 crore but were told there was no money. But the imperatives of national prestige have succeeded in winkling thousands of crores out of the Scrooges of North Block. When I was Sports Minister, I asked for a total of Rs 6000 crore, to be handed out over 10 years, for a scheme that would provide basic sporting facilities to every panchayat. They sanctioned Rs 1500 crore. On the other hand, the Commonwealth Games were initially sanctioned for Rs 300 crore, but every time the budget goes up they still manage to find the money. When it comes to circuses for the rich we are an emerging tiger; when it comes to feeding the poor we suddenly become a destitute nation. The Commonwealth Games are a symbol of distorted national priorities, false pride and delusions of grandeur. Q. The overall expenditure seems to be increasing every time the Government reviews the situation. It seems to be getting worse as the opening date gets nearer. A. Total expenditure on the Asian Games of 1982 was Rs 55 crore. The total expenditure on the Commonwealth Games is morally indefensible. I can’t see Mahatma Gandhi offering to light the Olympic flame. But I do recognise that I am one of the declining minority that still thinks Gandhi got his economics right. Q. Various environmental groups have criticised the choice of location of the Games Village, as it is being built on the banks of the Yamuna. Any comments? A. There are certainly serious environmental concerns but I see from the newspapers that the concerned authorities have been giving the necessary clearances. I believe the environmental groups have not been able to state their cases convincingly. The information base they use tends to be both narrow and skewed. What amazes me is that a few years ago they found a slum on the right bank of the Yamuna, in the shadow of the Red Fort, that they deemed to be so environmentally damaging that they moved it, disrupting the lives of thousands of very poor, very disadvantaged migrant families. However, they had no difficulty in getting environmental clearances of the Games Village, which has come up on the left bank of the river, almost exactly opposite the place where the slum had been cleaned. Don’t forget, after the Games, the Village is going to be just about the most valuable piece of real estate in the heart of the capital. Should we be having one set of environmental regulations for the poor and another set for the rich? Q. With such strong views on the matter, do you feel you gave the Games enough attention during your 2 years as Sports Minister? Work is behind schedule. Do you think you could have done more? A. I was not allowed to give it my attention because I was not trusted by those responsible for the Games. I was not surprised that I was not trusted, because I had made clear my moral abhorrence to hosting this event. But when it comes to finishing the work before the dates, I’m not too worried on that score. We have an age-old tradition in India of putting up the pandaal only when the baarat is around the corner. We’ll finish the work and then proclaim it as a great organisational success. But I think I will escape from the city and spend those days in meditation at Sabarmati. Q. What about the purported benefits that will arise from the Games? A. I see the Jawaharlal Nehru Stadium and the Indira Gandhi Stadium as gaping vacuums in our Capital’s life, let alone the nation’s life. Almost everywhere the Commonwealth Games, ghost towns are left behind. Every effort I made as Sports Minister to ensure the Games left behind a people’s legacy was thwarted. Now I am not hopeful of the Games leaving behind a legacy that will reverberate in the lives of the aam aadmi or even the aam vidhyarthi. Q. Could you elaborate on what you mean by a people’s legacy? A. I visited Manchester [which hosted the Games in 2002] within weeks of becoming the Sports Minister and I saw how the athletics stadium had been converted into a stadium for Manchester City Football Club. They had created a system where the revenues would be shared between club and city. The stadium would be used for rock concerts – in some years they would have up to 400 such events. The redevelopment of East Manchester – which was a completely run down part of the city – was a vital part of their plan. After the redevelopment Microsoft moved their European headquarters there. 18,000 youngsters employed in the food & beverages sector for the Games were trained and subsequently employed by Wal Mart. The swimming pool came to be used by immigrant Muslim women in accordance with the customs of their community. While I was Minister I saw no effort to concentrate on such issues, no effort to create a positive legacy for the Games. Q. Do you believe – as the IOA President Suresh Kalmadi has declared – that your comments on the Commonwealth Games hampered Delhi’s bid for the Asian Games of 2014? A. I don’t feel responsible for it at all. It is wholly the incompetence of the diplomatic corps in charge that is at fault for our failure. I was made a convenient scapegoat. In any case, I truly believe that India and Delhi did not need the insult of the Asian Games of 2014 after the injury that is these Commonwealth Games. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 17:32:37 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 05:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination Message-ID: <362025.43085.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> "The Indian government, when it took the Kashmir issue to the United Nations, promised such a referendum. It has not kept to that promise. If it does so, then the matter can be easily settled." Are you aware of the preconditions necessary for the referendum to take place? Read this http://www.boloji.com/myword/mw116.htm "If all the UN Resolutions of 1948 and 1949 are considered, the following steps would be required to implement them. First, all Pakistani troops and police personnel would have to vacate Kashmir. Secondly, all non-Kashmiri Pakistani residents in Kashmir would have to vacate Kashmir. Thirdly, Indian army personnel would be posted in the whole of undivided Kashmir to restore peace and order. Fourthly, the Indian army would remain there until this was accomplished – in other words, all terrorist violence was ended. Then, and only then, would the Indian army reduce its deployment to a token presence required for ensuring peace. Fifthly, the State of Jammu and Kashmir would have to be restored to its original territorial status. Among other thing, the part of Kashmir illegally ceded to China by Pakistan would have to be restored to J-K before the holding of plebiscite." And this- http://kashmir.ahrchk.net/mainfile.php/after1947/9/ Also note that the UN resolutions do not give a choice of a sovereign Kashmir state,its either India or Pakistan. So,please exclude the legalese of the UN resolutions from your arguments for self determination. Lets talk about the other aspect- the principle of self determination as a basic and axiomatic principle of democracy. Most sovereign states do not provide for this.Anyway, let me give you a more general philosophical expostulation- no ethical principle known to mankind is axiomatic.Its derived from the consequences of such a principle.In other words the derivation of ethics or principles from any axiom is never absolute,its always based on the consequences.At best,the so called axiom serves as a guiding principle.So you are really can't escape from analyzing the principle of self determination of territorial boundaries in a consequential framework-specially when there are not many examples of such a principle being provided for in existing states. Thanks Rahul --- On Sat, 7/18/09, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > From: shuddha at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination > To: "Pawan Durani" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 1:41 PM > Dear All, > > The case for, or against, self-determination, has to rest, > finally, not in > what others think, but in what those who desire the > determination of their > own destinies, believe. > > Either we take a democratic principle seriously, or we do > not. Either we > believe that a popular majority's acquiescence to a form of > sovereignty > makes sense, or it does not. > > My stand on the question of 'self-determination' for > Kashmir has nothing to > do with an argument for, or, against the possibility or > necessity or > desirability of a Kashmiri nation-state. That is not for me > to judge. Nor > is it for anyone other than those who will be its willing > or unwilling > subjects. > > My position is simple. If the majority of the people of the > Kashmir valley > (please note that I am not talking of Jammu or Ladakh) > believe that they > should not stay within the Indian union, then, it is > undemocratic to force > them to stay. If, however, they demonstrate in a free, fair > referendum, > conducted by a neutral body, attended upon by international > observers, that > in fact they wish to stay within the Indian union. Then, it > would be > equally undemocratic to have them secede. > > The Indian government, when it took the Kashmir issue to > the United > Nations, promised such a referendum. It has not kept to > that promise. If it > does so, then the matter can be easily settled. > > Finally, just because we don't agree with what the majority > of a people > believe in, does not mean that we have the right to foist > decisions alien > to their will upon them. Kashmiri self-determination may > be > self-delusional, it may not be. But that is not anyone > other than the > people of Kashmir can, or should decide, for them, or on > their behalf. > > I may find Hindu or Islamic fundamentalism distasteful, and > I will struggle > against it passionately, but if, theoretically, the > majority of the people > were to accede to Fundamentalism, I would have to accept > that this is in > fact a reflection of their democratically expressed will. > My job would then > be to argue with them, consistently, clearly, passionately, > if necessary, > forever. > > If it is patently clear that their will has been subverted, > as it has been > recently in Iran (or in the staged 'elections' that were > held in Kashmir in > 1987, which inaugurated the current more than two decade > long period of > unrest) then a commitment to democratic principles would > have to mean a > struggle to restore that will. > > Vivek Gumaste has invoked many arguments in his text, but > not a single one > of them actually attempts to engage with what the question > of the will of > the majority of the Kashmir valley. Until a proper > engagement with that > question is undertaken, every argument for the forcible > retention of the > Kashmir, whether undertaken on pragmatic or idealistic > grounds, need to be > seen for what it would end up being - the ornaments of > tyranny. > > best, > > Shuddha > > > > > > > Self-determination is a lyrical, mesmerising phrase > that sparks the > > fire in a revolutionary and excites the cerebral > neurons of a > > libertarian, galvanising both into frenzied activity. > But > > self-determination shorn of its prerequisites and > mindless of its > > implications can prove to be a toxic, self-mutilating > instrument with > > deleterious consequences for its protagonists and > antagonists. Nowhere > > is this more evident than in the case of Kashmir where > it holds an > > uncertain future for its proponents in the Valley and > can be the axiom > > that seriously erodes the basic fabric of India's > Constitution. > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 18 18:25:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:55:49 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Ram Sewak Sharma appointed Director General of UIAD Message-ID: <65be9bf40907180555q4a1917dat74d713c744884dc2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All With the appointment of a Ram while a Nandu being on board already, it seems that the whole identification process in our country is turning into mythical proportions. Like a Hanuman who was asked to identity a jari-booti and got an entire mountain or a damayanti who had to identify a Nal from among all the five grooms who looked alike, the UIDAI story is, it seems, is not trying to appropriate the discourse of hyper modernity but making an attempt to regain ideas which form the spine our collective cultural soul. But just like hanuman could not weed out the correct jari-booti could we be facing a similar situation in future when our officers might hesitate to weed out the correct illegal immigrant from the false one or the correct poor from a bogus one? Please read the story for more Warm regards Taha http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news/latest-news/625747/Business/4/30/4 New Delhi Government today appointed IAS officer Ram Sewak Sharma as the Director General of the Unique Identification Authority of India headed by Nandan Nilekani. Sharma, who is from the Jharkhand Cadre of the 1978 batch, would have the rank of an Additional Secretary. The Appointment Committee of Cabinet (ACC) has already approved Sharma's appointment. The government has formed the Unique Identification Authority of India to provide an unique identity number to every citizen of the country. Nandan Nilekani, the former Co- Chairman of Infosys Technologies, has already been appointed Chairman of the UIAD. Further, the government has earmarked Rs 120 crore for the project.UIDAI, an authority under the aegis of the Planning Commission, is expected to roll out the first set of cards in the next 12-18 months. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 18 18:28:39 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:58:39 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani may get EPFO database for UID project- 151 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907180558r2652039aj83d1fec94faf113a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Nilekani-may-get-EPFO-database-for-UID-project/491049 Nilekani may get EPFO database for UID project Manoj C G Tags : Nilekani, EPFO database, UID project Posted: Saturday , Jul 18, 2009 at 0400 hrs New Delhi: As Nandan Nilekani starts work on providing a unique identity card to India’s citizens, the Labour Ministry has offered him a ready database to begin with. The Labour Ministry, it is learnt, has suggested to him that he can start his work by providing identity cards to the nearly 4.2 crore subscribers of the Employment Provident Fund as the EPFO possesses a readymade database of its members. Sources said Labour Minister Mallikarjun Kharge and Labour Secretary Sudha Pillai had a meeting with Nilekani to discuss the proposal. Besides the EPFO, the Ministry could also offer the database of over 1.2 crore members of the Employee State Insurance Corporation (ESIC). “This is an opportunity for us to get ID cards for the subscribers of EPFO and ESI. We would like the EPFO subscribers to be first beneficiaries of the Unique Identity Card (UID) project,” a senior Labour Ministry official told The Indian Express. The issuance of unique identity cards to provident fund subscribers would be an added advantage to them as the EPFO is already planning to make EPF accounts available online by the end of this year. The Ministry has also sounded out the EPFO to keep the database updated. The Labour Ministry’s suggestion comes even as the UID authority that Nilekani heads looks at existing databases of PAN card users, passport and driving licenses holders, ration card owners, and people having household gas connections to start the ambitious project with. The Labour Ministry also hopes to take the UID’s help to issue identity cards to over 45 crore workers in the unorganised sector, a legal obligation the Government has to fulfill under the Unorganised Sector Workers’ Social Security Act. From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 21:58:23 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:58:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Cross posting material- In-Reply-To: <1f9180970907180911i4a9e8734y68910313be7df33e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970907180911i4a9e8734y68910313be7df33e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970907180928q5e041efcmb6da1f26f567efc8@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Venugopalan K M Date: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 9:41 PM Subject: Cross posting material- To: venukm On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Sekhar Ramakrishnan wrote: > http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/14/stories/2009071453030800.htm > about BJP being stuck in Hindutva, > > http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-nadeem-f-paracha-empty-heroics-hs-06 > about longstanding sympathy for jihadis in Pak media, > > http://www.examiner.com/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner%7Ey2009m7d11-Ireland-passes-blasphemy-law > about Ireland's blasphemy law, > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6513866.ece > about an orthodox Jew versus energy-saving motion sensors, > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/us/11gay.html about SCLC's > homophobia, > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/us/02nuns.html > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/opinion/12sun3.html > both about the Vatican harassing progressive nuns in the US, > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124753078523935615.html > about attempts to rewrite Texas history books to make Christianity > central and to remove references to progressives, > > http://www.examiner.com/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2009m7d10-State-Senator-Sylvia-Allen-thinks-planet-is-six-thousand-years-old > about the casual assumption of a young Earth (with video link), > > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/lepper.html > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/groves.html > both about the opposite and equally ridiculous view from ISKCON that > humans existed millions of years ago in order to make Hindu mythology > about yugas true, > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/14/sotomayor-says-roe-v-wade_n_231489.html > about Sotomayor defending abortion rights as based in a constitutional > privacy right, and > > http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2009/07/13/hatch-attacks-essential-services-lowincome-communities-under-health-care-reform > about rightwing attempts to raise the bogey of abortion to derail both > healthcare reform and to block contraception coverage > > contain the material below. Not below: > > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_anomaly.html discussing fossil > evidence, and > > http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/07/09/lost-in-space/ Nadeem > Paracha's nice blog, already posted by Harsh in SACW July 10-12. > > Sekhar > -- From justjunaid at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 00:44:11 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:44:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination Message-ID: Kashmir is a case of a nation fighting for its liberation. National liberation struggles work on the democratic principle of self-determination. This principle of self-determination does not emerge from the charter of the UN or any other multinational document. But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN Charter emerged from an ethical realisation that self-determination is the foundational principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the bed rock for peace. Two world wars later this principle was widely accepted. And it proved to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization movement, which resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial struggles in the Indian subcontinent and in other places. (On the betrayal of anti-colonial struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz said "Yeh woh seher to nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor spoke when he lamented the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few doors..."). Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the same for ever, but colonizers almost ended up annihilating each other before realising colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of struggle and sacrifice from the colonised people to make it happen. Colonisers tried every trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" self-determination or not. There is no court that can decide that. At least it is not important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian nationalists" think they have a case. It would be naive to believe that Indian nationalists for whom "the idea of India" is like a religious faith--and in fact is a religious faith--would come around and change their opinion on it-- least through discussion. What is important is that Kashmiris think that they have the case, and a need for freedom and independence. It is clear that over the last 80 years of struggle--first against Dogra rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case in the eyes of Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. National liberation struggles start like pebbles rolling down the hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more people, young people, even small kids, (more strongly than generations before them) feel that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More and more they understand this idea of being Kashmiri as running counter to any individual or group affliation with the idea of India. The idea of India is understood as something that stops them from being Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly unacceptable to them. The idea of independence has grown exponentially since Sheikh Abdullah's Naya Kashmir document. The desire for independence when it couples itself with the need for it, is unstoppable. Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national solidarity based on principles of justice and freedom, instead of feeding on the notions of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of "the chosen people". Within the current global discourse of "Islam", however, Kashmiris too get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the long-run does not have drastic consequences though. It will wane. Islamophobia cannot hold. There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world which otherwise the world have to contend with as enemies. Anti-Hindu sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not only a result of the past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of how the Indian occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. For Kashmiris, 80 years of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, and then the transfer of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes the imperial-territorial discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There are no doctrinal issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims can't sit and live together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No one in Srinagar would say they want to put Islam's green flag on the red fort. This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A world which is utterly betrayed by the promises of the Third World--which by mimicking the First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and behaves like former colonial countries. And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be given on a platter. It will be taken through everyday anti-occupation struggle by Kashmiris. It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much but there is very little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so will oppression. But that will be the undoing og the occupation. India will leave Kashmir because there is no other way. I only hope it doesn't happen at the end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire subcontinent. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 03:05:13 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination Message-ID: <727543.18372.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Junaid, There is a difference between a colonized body of land and a constituent state of a democracy. What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are defining Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based on principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying nation in Kashmir or do you give Pakistan that distinction as well? Thanks Rahul --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid wrote: > From: Junaid > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > Kashmir is a case of a nation > fighting for its liberation. National > liberation struggles work on the democratic principle of > self-determination. This principle of self-determination > does not > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > multinational document. > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN Charter > emerged from > an ethical realisation that self-determination is the > foundational > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the bed rock > for peace. > > Two world wars later this principle was widely accepted. > And it proved > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization movement, > which > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial struggles in > the Indian > subcontinent and in other places. (On the betrayal of > anti-colonial > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz said "Yeh > woh seher to > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor spoke when he > lamented > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few doors..."). > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the same for > ever, but > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each other before > realising > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of struggle > and sacrifice > from the colonised people to make it happen. Colonisers > tried every > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > self-determination or > not. There is no court that can decide that. At least it is > not > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian nationalists" > think they > have a case. It would be naive to believe that Indian > nationalists for > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious faith--and in > fact is a > religious faith--would come around and change their opinion > on it-- > least through discussion. What is important is that > Kashmiris think > that they have the case, and a need for freedom and > independence. It > is clear that over the last 80 years of struggle--first > against Dogra > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case in the > eyes of > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles rolling > down the > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more people, > young people, > even small kids, (more strongly than generations before > them) feel > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More and more > they > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as running counter > to any > individual or group affliation with the idea of India. The > idea of > India is understood as something that stops them from > being > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly unacceptable to > them. The idea > of independence has grown exponentially since Sheikh > Abdullah's Naya > Kashmir document. The desire for independence when it > couples itself > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national solidarity > based on > principles of justice and freedom, instead of feeding on > the notions > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of "the chosen > people". > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", however, > Kashmiris too > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the long-run > does not have > drastic consequences though. It will wane. Islamophobia > cannot hold. > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world > which > otherwise the world have to contend with as enemies. > Anti-Hindu > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not only a > result of the > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of how the > Indian > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. For > Kashmiris, 80 years > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, and then > the transfer > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes the > imperial-territorial > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There are no > doctrinal > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims can't sit and > live > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No one in > Srinagar > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on the red > fort. > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A world which > is utterly > betrayed by the promises of the Third World--which by > mimicking the > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and behaves > like former > colonial countries. > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be given on a > platter. It > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation struggle by > Kashmiris. > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much but there > is very > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so will > oppression. But > that will be the undoing og the occupation. India will > leave Kashmir > because there is no other way. I only hope it doesn't > happen at the > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire subcontinent. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 19 07:15:50 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:15:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <727543.18372.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <727543.18372.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <638857.96430.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear all, This problem shall continue if the posession of land for all those who lost it due to the queer laws of inheritance in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of it...................................................................................................... Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian or by militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite interesting discussions, one question I'd like to ask.................................... Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent of our lives so that they crown those aspects where they are needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer Gori Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire racism. Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or Bg Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive and hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings suggests it is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army appearing in every domain of social life and so the anti-army forces, that makes these people crave for a different kind of independance, from the state which doent want to repeal the special armed forces act, riddled in a political struggle, banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace option not recognised? My reading of this however would not be much different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's Son of Soil pol by Raj Thackrey............. Only if life was more normalised, we could retain kashmir.................................................................... ________________________________ From: Rahul Asthana To: reader-list at sarai.net; Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination Hi Junaid, There is a difference between a colonized body of land and a constituent state of a democracy. What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are defining Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based on principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying nation in Kashmir or do you give Pakistan that distinction as well? Thanks Rahul --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid wrote: > From: Junaid > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > Kashmir is a case of a nation > fighting for its liberation. National > liberation struggles work on the democratic principle of > self-determination. This principle of self-determination > does not > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > multinational document. > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN Charter > emerged from > an ethical realisation that self-determination is the > foundational > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the bed rock > for peace. > > Two world wars later this principle was widely accepted. > And it proved > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization movement, > which > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial struggles in > the Indian > subcontinent and in other places. (On the betrayal of > anti-colonial > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz said "Yeh > woh seher to > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor spoke when he > lamented > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few doors..."). > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the same for > ever, but > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each other before > realising > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of struggle > and sacrifice > from the colonised people to make it happen. Colonisers > tried every > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > self-determination or > not. There is no court that can decide that. At least it is > not > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian nationalists" > think they > have a case. It would be naive to believe that Indian > nationalists for > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious faith--and in > fact is a > religious faith--would come around and change their opinion > on it-- > least through discussion. What is important is that > Kashmiris think > that they have the case, and a need for freedom and > independence. It > is clear that over the last 80 years of struggle--first > against Dogra > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case in the > eyes of > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles rolling > down the > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more people, > young people, > even small kids, (more strongly than generations before > them) feel > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More and more > they > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as running counter > to any > individual or group affliation with the idea of India. The > idea of > India is understood as something that stops them from > being > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly unacceptable to > them. The idea > of independence has grown exponentially since Sheikh > Abdullah's Naya > Kashmir document. The desire for independence when it > couples itself > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national solidarity > based on > principles of justice and freedom, instead of feeding on > the notions > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of "the chosen > people". > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", however, > Kashmiris too > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the long-run > does not have > drastic consequences though. It will wane. Islamophobia > cannot hold. > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world > which > otherwise the world have to contend with as enemies. > Anti-Hindu > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not only a > result of the > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of how the > Indian > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. For > Kashmiris, 80 years > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, and then > the transfer > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes the > imperial-territorial > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There are no > doctrinal > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims can't sit and > live > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No one in > Srinagar > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on the red > fort. > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A world which > is utterly > betrayed by the promises of the Third World--which by > mimicking the > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and behaves > like former > colonial countries. > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be given on a > platter. It > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation struggle by > Kashmiris. > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much but there > is very > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so will > oppression. But > that will be the undoing og the occupation. India will > leave Kashmir > because there is no other way. I only hope it doesn't > happen at the > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire subcontinent. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 07:37:39 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination Message-ID: <745093.95184.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Subhrodip, I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending terrorists . The question is what role should you or I choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people like Junaid who are not really worried about how many people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should advocate the course of action that results in resolving the impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. Thanks Rahul --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > From: subhrodip sengupta > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > Dear all, > This problem shall continue if the posession of land for > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of inheritance > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > it...................................................................................................... > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian or by > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > ask.................................... > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent of our > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer Gori > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire racism. > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or Bg > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive and > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings suggests it > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army appearing > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army forces, > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > independance, from the state which doent want to repeal the > special armed forces act, riddled in a political struggle, > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace option not > recognised? My reading of this however would not be much > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's Son of > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey............. > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > kashmir.................................................................... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rahul Asthana > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for > self-determination > > > Hi Junaid, > There is a difference between a colonized body of land and > a constituent state of a democracy. > > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are defining > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based on > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying nation in > Kashmir or do > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > > Thanks > Rahul > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > wrote: > > > From: Junaid > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for > self-determination > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > fighting for its liberation. National > > liberation struggles work on the democratic principle > of > > self-determination. This principle of > self-determination > > does not > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > > multinational document. > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > Charter > > emerged from > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is the > > foundational > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the bed > rock > > for peace. > > > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > accepted. > > And it proved > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > movement, > > which > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > struggles in > > the Indian > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the betrayal of > > anti-colonial > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz said > "Yeh > > woh seher to > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor spoke > when he > > lamented > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few doors..."). > > > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the same > for > > ever, but > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each other > before > > realising > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > struggle > > and sacrifice > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > Colonisers > > tried every > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > > self-determination or > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At least > it is > > not > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > nationalists" > > think they > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that Indian > > nationalists for > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > faith--and in > > fact is a > > religious faith--would come around and change their > opinion > > on it-- > > least through discussion. What is important is that > > Kashmiris think > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom and > > independence. It > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > struggle--first > > against Dogra > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case in > the > > eyes of > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > rolling > > down the > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > people, > > young people, > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > before > > them) feel > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More and > more > > they > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as running > counter > > to any > > individual or group affliation with the idea of India. > The > > idea of > > India is understood as something that stops them from > > being > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly unacceptable > to > > them. The idea > > of independence has grown exponentially since Sheikh > > Abdullah's Naya > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence when it > > couples itself > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > solidarity > > based on > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of feeding > on > > the notions > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of "the > chosen > > people". > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > however, > > Kashmiris too > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > long-run > > does not have > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > Islamophobia > > cannot hold. > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over the > world > > which > > otherwise the world have to contend with as enemies. > > Anti-Hindu > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not only a > > result of the > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of how > the > > Indian > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. For > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, and > then > > the transfer > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes the > > imperial-territorial > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There are > no > > doctrinal > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims can't sit > and > > live > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No one > in > > Srinagar > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on the > red > > fort. > > > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A world > which > > is utterly > > betrayed by the promises of the Third World--which by > > mimicking the > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > behaves > > like former > > colonial countries. > > > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be given > on a > > platter. It > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > struggle by > > Kashmiris. > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much but > there > > is very > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so will > > oppression. But > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. India > will > > leave Kashmir > > because there is no other way. I only hope it doesn't > > happen at the > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > subcontinent. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 19 08:46:15 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:46:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <745093.95184.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <745093.95184.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <476194.77153.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul, Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, so it is by choice and not co-ercion. Regards, Subhrodip. ________________________________ From: Rahul Asthana To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; subhrodip sengupta Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination Dear Subhrodip, I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending terrorists . The question is what role should you or I choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should advocate the course of action that results in resolving the impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. Thanks Rahul --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > From: subhrodip sengupta > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > Dear all, > This problem shall continue if the posession of land for > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of inheritance > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > it........................................................................................................ > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian or by > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > ask..................................... > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent of our > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer Gori > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire racism. > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or Bg > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive and > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings suggests it > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army appearing > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army forces, > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > independance, from the state which doent want to repeal the > special armed forces act, riddled in a political struggle, > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace option not > recognised? My reading of this however would not be much > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's Son of > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > kashmir.................................................................... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rahul Asthana > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for > self-determination > > > Hi Junaid, > There is a difference between a colonized body of land and > a constituent state of a democracy. > > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are defining > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based on > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying nation in > Kashmir or do > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > > Thanks > Rahul > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > wrote: > > > From: Junaid > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for > self-determination > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > fighting for its liberation. National > > liberation struggles work on the democratic principle > of > > self-determination.. This principle of > self-determination > > does not > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > > multinational document. > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > Charter > > emerged from > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is the > > foundational > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the bed > rock > > for peace. > > > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > accepted. > > And it proved > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > movement, > > which > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > struggles in > > the Indian > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the betrayal of > > anti-colonial > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz said > "Yeh > > woh seher to > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor spoke > when he > > lamented > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few doors..."). > > > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the same > for > > ever, but > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each other > before > > realising > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > struggle > > and sacrifice > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > Colonisers > > tried every > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > > self-determination or > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At least > it is > > not > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > nationalists" > > think they > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that Indian > > nationalists for > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > faith--and in > > fact is a > > religious faith--would come around and change their > opinion > > on it-- > > least through discussion. What is important is that > > Kashmiris think > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom and > > independence. It > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > struggle--first > > against Dogra > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case in > the > > eyes of > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > rolling > > down the > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > people, > > young people, > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > before > > them) feel > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More and > more > > they > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as running > counter > > to any > > individual or group affliation with the idea of India. > The > > idea of > > India is understood as something that stops them from > > being > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly unacceptable > to > > them. The idea > > of independence has grown exponentially since Sheikh > > Abdullah's Naya > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence when it > > couples itself > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > solidarity > > based on > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of feeding > on > > the notions > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of "the > chosen > > people". > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > however, > > Kashmiris too > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > long-run > > does not have > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > Islamophobia > > cannot hold. > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over the > world > > which > > otherwise the world have to contend with as enemies. > > Anti-Hindu > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not only a > > result of the > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of how > the > > Indian > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. For > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, and > then > > the transfer > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes the > > imperial-territorial > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There are > no > > doctrinal > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims can't sit > and > > live > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No one > in > > Srinagar > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on the > red > > fort. > > > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A world > which > > is utterly > > betrayed by the promises of the Third World--which by > > mimicking the > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > behaves > > like former > > colonial countries. > > > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be given > on a > > platter. It > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > struggle by > > Kashmiris. > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much but > there > > is very > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so will > > oppression. But > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. India > will > > leave Kashmir > > because there is no other way. I only hope it doesn't > > happen at the > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > subcontinent. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 08:51:29 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:51:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case for self-determination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907182021q7526fc0cma0168180c193c48f@mail.gmail.com> Junaid , The problem is that many Muslims to not want to be a part of democracy and neither a part of a religious group which is termed a minority. The concept of Jihad in Kashmir started with razing temples to ground , killing of Hindus in Kashmir and it extends to state administration as well which does not have a single Kashmiri Hindu in the council of Ministers. Both set of muslims in Kashmir , so called moderates or extremists , are doing the same job either overtly or covertly. With 20 years gone and not a single conviction against any of the killer of Kashmiri Hindus who were killed in thousands ........do you call it as a liberation struggle. Dear friend , you are doing it covertly as well with a good mix of well written english .......coz u re a co-Muslim for them. And for both -----Jihad is well defined in the holy text ..... Pawan The so called liberation struggle in Kashmir is nothing but On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM, Junaid wrote: > Kashmir is a case of a nation fighting for its liberation. National > liberation struggles work on the democratic principle of > self-determination. This principle of self-determination does not > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other multinational document. > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN Charter emerged from > an ethical realisation that self-determination is the foundational > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the bed rock for peace. > > Two world wars later this principle was widely accepted. And it proved > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization movement, which > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial struggles in the Indian > subcontinent and in other places. (On the betrayal of anti-colonial > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz said "Yeh woh seher to > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor spoke when he lamented > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few doors..."). > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the same for ever, but > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each other before realising > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of struggle and sacrifice > from the colonised people to make it happen. Colonisers tried every > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" self-determination or > not. There is no court that can decide that. At least it is not > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian nationalists" think they > have a case. It would be naive to believe that Indian nationalists for > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious faith--and in fact is a > religious faith--would come around and change their opinion on it-- > least through discussion. What is important is that Kashmiris think > that they have the case, and a need for freedom and independence. It > is clear that over the last 80 years of struggle--first against Dogra > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case in the eyes of > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles rolling down the > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more people, young people, > even small kids, (more strongly than generations before them) feel > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More and more they > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as running counter to any > individual or group affliation with the idea of India. The idea of > India is understood as something that stops them from being > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly unacceptable to them. The idea > of independence has grown exponentially since Sheikh Abdullah's Naya > Kashmir document. The desire for independence when it couples itself > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national solidarity based on > principles of justice and freedom, instead of feeding on the notions > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of "the chosen people". > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", however, Kashmiris too > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the long-run does not have > drastic consequences though. It will wane. Islamophobia cannot hold. > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world which > otherwise the world have to contend with as enemies. Anti-Hindu > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not only a result of the > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of how the Indian > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. For Kashmiris, 80 years > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, and then the transfer > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes the imperial-territorial > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There are no doctrinal > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims can't sit and live > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No one in Srinagar > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on the red fort. > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A world which is utterly > betrayed by the promises of the Third World--which by mimicking the > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and behaves like former > colonial countries. > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be given on a platter. It > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation struggle by Kashmiris. > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much but there is very > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so will oppression. But > that will be the undoing og the occupation. India will leave Kashmir > because there is no other way. I only hope it doesn't happen at the > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire subcontinent. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 09:54:04 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:54:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Unratified India And Tortured People-article by NM Salih (fwd from countercurrents- A Disquieting Picture of Police Raj In India) Message-ID: <1f9180970907182124p46341cb4ha5213a7d55617ab3@mail.gmail.com> Read article by NM Salih: "..According to a senior lawyer, India has the highest number of cases of police torture and custodial deaths among the world's democracies and the weakest legislation against torture. Unfortunately, in the country, torture is seen as routine police behaviour to extract confessions..." http://www.countercurrents.org/salih170709.htm From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 10:01:31 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:01:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=28Fwd=29_Mayawati=92s_Idolization?= =?windows-1252?q?_And_The_Questing_Of_Dalit_Emancipation_By_S=2ER?= =?windows-1252?q?=2EDarapuri_I=2EP=2ES=2E=28Retd=29?= Message-ID: <1f9180970907182131k34fcb6fbnb76e8485a4f3faae@mail.gmail.com> http://www.countercurrents.org/darapuri170709.htm "..It is well known that Mayawati did not take up any development agenda during all her tenures of Chief Minister ship. During the elections BSP never came out with an election manifesto. This was done purposely. Because declaration of an agenda beings about the responsibility of implementing it and failure to do so invites public wrath. Mr. Kanshi Ram, the mentor of Mayawati, attracted Dalits by promising to fulfill the incomplete mission of Dr. Ambedkar but cleverly he never defined it in writing.... All the principles of Ambedkarism were thrown to winds and dalits were exploited emotionally in the name of caste. Personal ambitions were pursued in place of Dalit issues. This unprincipled, non developmental and corrupt politics has resulted in poverty, unemployment and backwardness of the people of U.P. and the Dalits at large.." -- From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 10:29:14 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:29:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Getting Radicalized, Slow And Painful By Robert Jensen (fwded) Message-ID: <1f9180970907182159n42fea386v789d6a514ef8230@mail.gmail.com> Here is an interesting account of radicalism as seen by Robert Jensen: http://www.countercurrents.org/jensen150709.htm "..coming to understand that the world’s pain is the product of profoundly unjust social systems helped me understand a different kind of personal pain I had been struggling with. Most of my life I had felt like a bit of a freak, like someone out of step with the culture around him. There’s nothing dramatically wrong with me physically or psychologically, but I always struggled to fit in. I had always had a lingering sense that I didn’t want what others around me seemed to want. Because of my privilege, the world offered me a lot, and I am grateful for much of what I have -- work I have usually enjoyed, an adequate income, relative safety. But I could never figure out how to be normal -- how to kick back with the guys; how to get excited about sports, television, or the latest hit music; how to care about what kind of car I drove. In many ways I had it made, on the surface, but that sense of being out of step always dragged me down..." From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 12:07:32 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination Message-ID: <865947.90603.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > so it is by choice and not co-ercion." So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of the current role of the Pakistan army. The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised criminal mafia which has full support of the United States administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > From: subhrodip sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > Dear Rahul, > Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? > Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new > state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep > violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > Regards, > Subhrodip. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rahul Asthana > To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > subhrodip sengupta > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > Determination > > > > Dear Subhrodip, > I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA > should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending > terrorists . The question is what role should you or I > choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a > particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people > like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many > people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much > an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who > believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self > determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of > India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we > should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should > advocate the course of action that results in resolving the > impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. > Thanks > Rahul > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > wrote: > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > Determination > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > > Dear all, > > This problem shall continue if the posession of land > for > > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of > inheritance > > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > > > it........................................................................................................ > > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian > or by > > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > > ask..................................... > > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent > of our > > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer > Gori > > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire > racism. > > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or > Bg > > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive > and > > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings > suggests it > > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army > appearing > > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army > forces, > > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > > independance, from the state which doent want to > repeal the > > special armed forces act, riddled in a political > struggle, > > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace > option not > > recognised? My reading of this however would not be > much > > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's > Son of > > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > > > kashmir.................................................................... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Rahul Asthana > > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > > > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case > for > > self-determination > > > > > > Hi Junaid, > > There is a difference between a colonized body of land > and > > a constituent state of a democracy. > > > > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are > defining > > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based > on > > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > > > > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying > nation in > > Kashmir or do > > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > > > > Thanks > > Rahul > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > > wrote: > > > > > From: Junaid > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no > case for > > self-determination > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > > fighting for its liberation. National > > > liberation struggles work on the democratic > principle > > of > > > self-determination.. This principle of > > self-determination > > > does not > > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > > > multinational document. > > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > > Charter > > > emerged from > > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is > the > > > foundational > > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the > bed > > rock > > > for peace. > > > > > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > > accepted. > > > And it proved > > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > > movement, > > > which > > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > > struggles in > > > the Indian > > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the > betrayal of > > > anti-colonial > > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz > said > > "Yeh > > > woh seher to > > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor > spoke > > when he > > > lamented > > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few > doors..."). > > > > > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the > same > > for > > > ever, but > > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each > other > > before > > > realising > > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > > struggle > > > and sacrifice > > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > > Colonisers > > > tried every > > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > > > > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > > > self-determination or > > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At > least > > it is > > > not > > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > > nationalists" > > > think they > > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that > Indian > > > nationalists for > > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > > faith--and in > > > fact is a > > > religious faith--would come around and change > their > > opinion > > > on it-- > > > least through discussion. What is important is > that > > > Kashmiris think > > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom > and > > > independence. It > > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > > struggle--first > > > against Dogra > > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case > in > > the > > > eyes of > > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > > > > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > > rolling > > > down the > > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > > people, > > > young people, > > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > > before > > > them) feel > > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More > and > > more > > > they > > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as > running > > counter > > > to any > > > individual or group affliation with the idea of > India. > > The > > > idea of > > > India is understood as something that stops them > from > > > being > > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly > unacceptable > > to > > > them. The idea > > > of independence has grown exponentially since > Sheikh > > > Abdullah's Naya > > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence > when it > > > couples itself > > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > > > > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > > solidarity > > > based on > > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of > feeding > > on > > > the notions > > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of > "the > > chosen > > > people". > > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > > however, > > > Kashmiris too > > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > > long-run > > > does not have > > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > > Islamophobia > > > cannot hold. > > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over > the > > world > > > which > > > otherwise the world have to contend with as > enemies. > > > Anti-Hindu > > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not > only a > > > result of the > > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of > how > > the > > > Indian > > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. > For > > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, > and > > then > > > the transfer > > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes > the > > > imperial-territorial > > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There > are > > no > > > doctrinal > > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims > can't sit > > and > > > live > > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No > one > > in > > > Srinagar > > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on > the > > red > > > fort. > > > > > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A > world > > which > > > is utterly > > > betrayed by the promises of the Third > World--which by > > > mimicking the > > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > > behaves > > > like former > > > colonial countries. > > > > > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be > given > > on a > > > platter. It > > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > > struggle by > > > Kashmiris. > > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much > but > > there > > > is very > > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so > will > > > oppression. But > > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. > India > > will > > > leave Kashmir > > > because there is no other way. I only hope it > doesn't > > > happen at the > > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > > subcontinent. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > >       > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, > photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From skinnyghosh at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 12:56:27 2009 From: skinnyghosh at gmail.com (sukanya ghosh) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:56:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Yesterdays news Message-ID: <4A62CAA3.1020401@gmail.com> Women's groups yesterday circulated this letter in response to the front page graphic of buddhadeb bhattacharya and his ministers. The telegraph has responded with a hint of an apology today . . . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Editor The Telegraph Kolkata Sir, It is outrageous that The Telegraph, Kolkata's leading English newspaper, should in the twenty-first century (July 18, 2009), decide to equate inaction with femininity and women. In depicting in its front page image this morning the Chief Minister of West Bengal and his leading administrators, all men, wearing saris, the Telegraph has betrayed its deeply entrenched patriarchal prejudices about women. We would ask whether the equating of men with women is a compliment or an insult. Clearly your paper thinks that it is an insult to men. Like many of us in West Bengal, The Telegraph too is dismayed by administrative apathy and inaction. However, reinforcing archaic gender stereotypes in an attempt to discharge the watchdog duties of the Press cannot be called responsible cutting-edge journalism. To add insult to injury, your newspaper has appended an apology to women who might feel that the elegance of the sari is wasted on these administrators. To reduce the question of women's courage and efficiency to a question of feminine elegance further betrays your newspaper's retrograde gender politics. We are also deeply puzzled by the willful offence it offers to half the reading, buying and working public. We take strong objection to the demeaning representation of women, and demand a front page apology from the Telegraph. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The article: http://www.telegraphindia.com/archives/archive.html The response: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090719/jsp/frontpage/story_11255765.jsp From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 13:11:06 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:11:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Oscar_van_Leer_Fellowship_2009_for?= =?windows-1252?q?_journalism_about_early_chilhood_development_and_?= =?windows-1252?q?children=92s_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From http://www.bernardvanleer.org/ovlf/call Call for applications – Oscar van Leer Fellowship 2009 The Bernard van Leer Foundation is pleased to announce the inaugural Oscar van Leer Fellowship. We invite applications from journalists in qualifying countries (Mexico, Kenya, India (Orissa), Peru, Colombia, South Africa, Tanzania, Uganda and Caribbean Region) who have an interest in covering children’s issues. Three fellowships will be awarded, consisting of high-level professional training in skills related to journalism about early chilhood development and children’s rights. A four-week, expenses-paid professional training course in the Netherlands conducted by the Radio Netherlands Training Centrewill be provided to the successful candidates. This is a great opportunity for young journalists to further their general profesional development and to establish for themselves a particular area of expertise. *About the fellowship* The Bernard van Leer Foundation is an international philanthropic foundation based in The Hague that seeks to improve opportunities for disadvantaged young children. It has a long and respected track record of working internationally on early childhood development and children’s rights. The Oscar van Leer Fellowship commemorates Oscar van Leer, the son of the foundation’s benefactor. The inaugural fellowship also marks the foundation’s 60th anniversary. One of the difficulties the foundation encounters is that young children’s issues are often poorly understood in media coverage, if they are covered at all. The aim of the Oscar van Leer Fellowship is to contribute to a gradual improvement in the quality and quantity of media coverage of early childhood issues by training up-and-coming journalists, giving them knowledge and understanding that they will be able to apply as they progress in their journalistic careers. *Who should apply?* The fellowship is intended for ambitious young journalists with an interest in children’s issues. We don’t expect you to be an expert in children’s issues already – that’s why we’re offering training. But we want you to be interested in learning more about the issues faced by disadvantaged young children, and the ways in which media coverage can raise awareness and shape opinions of them. Applicants must be connected to a reputable media outlet, either as an employee or as a frequently published freelance contributor, and must intend to continue to pursue a career in the media. The fellowship is open to journalists in all forms of media, including print, radio, television and web. *Application procedure* You should send us, by no later than 18 August 2009: - A completed application form - A letter of motivation - Your resumé (please include an indication of the reach of the media outlet/s for which you work, in terms of circulation or audience figures) - One example of your work, which has something to do with the situation of children in your country. This could be a piece of writing, a short film or radio broadcast. It can be something you have had published already, or it can be something you produce especially for the purpose of accompanying this application. We would like to publish on our website the work submitted by shortlisted candidates, so if the work you submit has been published already, please ensure this would not cause copyright issues. See the "how to apply " page for details of where to send your application and in what format. Successful candidates will be announced on 01 October 2009, and will be invited to a presentation in The Hague on 11 November 2009. The training will take place in early 2010. From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 13:28:34 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:28:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907190034l460cc6a8leb85bd39379cff1a@mail.gmail.com> References: <865947.90603.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70907190034l460cc6a8leb85bd39379cff1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much as it was in 1947. Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations.  But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports fall in, they are already on Indian diet. The question, now is that who are these unfortunate  people who failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said on their role to divide Kashmir. Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous  other political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost of thousands of kashmiris dead,  for a cause or without a cause. It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. There are many reasons why a particular community turns fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can  white wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the issue. In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be  by looking into their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a sports. It is a big responsibility. With love and regards is On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of the current role of the Pakistan army. > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised criminal mafia which has full support of the United States administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > >> From: subhrodip sengupta >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM >> Dear Rahul, >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. >> Regards, >> Subhrodip. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rahul Asthana >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; >> subhrodip sengupta >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self >> Determination >> >> >> >> Dear Subhrodip, >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people >> like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. >> Thanks >> Rahul >> >> >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >> wrote: >> >> > From: subhrodip sengupta >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self >> Determination >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM >> > Dear all, >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land >> for >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of >> inheritance >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of >> > >> it........................................................................................................ >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian >> or by >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to >> > ask..................................... >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent >> of our >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer >> Gori >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire >> racism. >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or >> Bg >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive >> and >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings >> suggests it >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army >> appearing >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army >> forces, >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of >> > independance, from the state which doent want to >> repeal the >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political >> struggle, >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace >> option not >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be >> much >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's >> Son of >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain >> > >> kashmir.................................................................... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Rahul Asthana >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case >> for >> > self-determination >> > >> > >> > Hi Junaid, >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land >> and >> > a constituent state of a democracy. >> > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are >> defining >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based >> on >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? >> > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying >> nation in >> > Kashmir or do >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? >> > >> > Thanks >> > Rahul >> > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid >> > wrote: >> > >> > > From: Junaid >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no >> case for >> > self-determination >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation >> > > fighting for its liberation. National >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic >> principle >> > of >> > > self-determination.. This principle of >> > self-determination >> > > does not >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other >> > > multinational document. >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN >> > Charter >> > > emerged from >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is >> the >> > > foundational >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the >> bed >> > rock >> > > for peace. >> > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely >> > accepted. >> > > And it proved >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization >> > movement, >> > > which >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial >> > struggles in >> > > the Indian >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the >> betrayal of >> > > anti-colonial >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz >> said >> > "Yeh >> > > woh seher to >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor >> spoke >> > when he >> > > lamented >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few >> doors..."). >> > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the >> same >> > for >> > > ever, but >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each >> other >> > before >> > > realising >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of >> > struggle >> > > and sacrifice >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. >> > Colonisers >> > > tried every >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. >> > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" >> > > self-determination or >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At >> least >> > it is >> > > not >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian >> > nationalists" >> > > think they >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that >> Indian >> > > nationalists for >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious >> > faith--and in >> > > fact is a >> > > religious faith--would come around and change >> their >> > opinion >> > > on it-- >> > > least through discussion. What is important is >> that >> > > Kashmiris think >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom >> and >> > > independence. It >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of >> > struggle--first >> > > against Dogra >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case >> in >> > the >> > > eyes of >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. >> > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles >> > rolling >> > > down the >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more >> > people, >> > > young people, >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations >> > before >> > > them) feel >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More >> and >> > more >> > > they >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as >> running >> > counter >> > > to any >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of >> India. >> > The >> > > idea of >> > > India is understood as something that stops them >> from >> > > being >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly >> unacceptable >> > to >> > > them. The idea >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since >> Sheikh >> > > Abdullah's Naya >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence >> when it >> > > couples itself >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. >> > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national >> > solidarity >> > > based on >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of >> feeding >> > on >> > > the notions >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of >> "the >> > chosen >> > > people". >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", >> > however, >> > > Kashmiris too >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the >> > long-run >> > > does not have >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. >> > Islamophobia >> > > cannot hold. >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over >> the >> > world >> > > which >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as >> enemies. >> > > Anti-Hindu >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not >> only a >> > > result of the >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of >> how >> > the >> > > Indian >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. >> For >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, >> and >> > then >> > > the transfer >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes >> the >> > > imperial-territorial >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There >> are >> > no >> > > doctrinal >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims >> can't sit >> > and >> > > live >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No >> one >> > in >> > > Srinagar >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on >> the >> > red >> > > fort. >> > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A >> world >> > which >> > > is utterly >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third >> World--which by >> > > mimicking the >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and >> > behaves >> > > like former >> > > colonial countries. >> > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be >> given >> > on a >> > > platter. It >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation >> > struggle by >> > > Kashmiris. >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much >> but >> > there >> > > is very >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so >> will >> > > oppression. But >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. >> India >> > will >> > > leave Kashmir >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it >> doesn't >> > > happen at the >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire >> > subcontinent. >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the >> > > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > >> > >> >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >>       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 19 13:33:48 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:33:48 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <865947.90603.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <865947.90603.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <374398.44830.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Indeed Raw chiefs are usually deputed from Police or Army chiefs of Border or sensitive areas, and the Raw or other forces are an amicable entity, at least by your standards good enough in intelligence, no doubt every other day one may hear on the radio of every other wireless On full alert! They are merely trying to generate a series to map the Paki mind. With a sound intelligence most of our laws, including NSA would be of little use, we could deal with acts of terrorism as in any other crime............................................................................ But alas, we need to use divide and rule politics, induce fear so that people in certain area behave certainly, be it even out of sheer hatred. We need discipline. Whether we discipline Daud or not, we need to link him with ISI and blame it for guarding it. If we can forget his religion for some time, he is an Indian product. First we need to keep our eyes open, try to win confidence, then we may prune out mafias out of our land. I am least bothered if Kashmir stays in India or not. I am bothered about it's beauty and the people living there and it's accessibility. And for that we need peace, withdrawal in light of protest, if it be it localised rule, When they'll sense trouble they'd appraoch us.......................................... There exists a proverb, if you have something........................ Lets avoid Nation Machoism to begin with. ________________________________ From: Rahul Asthana To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; subhrodip sengupta Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 12:07:32 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > so it is by choice and not co-ercion." So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of the current role of the Pakistan army. The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised criminal mafia which has full support of the United States administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > From: subhrodip sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > Dear Rahul, > Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? > Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new > state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep > violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > Regards, > Subhrodip. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rahul Asthana > To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > subhrodip sengupta > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > Determination > > > > Dear Subhrodip, > I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA > should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending > terrorists . The question is what role should you or I > choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a > particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people > like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many > people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much > an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who > believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self > determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of > India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we > should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should > advocate the course of action that results in resolving the > impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. > Thanks > Rahul > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > wrote: > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > Determination > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > > Dear all, > > This problem shall continue if the posession of land > for > > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of > inheritance > > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > > > it.......................................................................................................... > > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian > or by > > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > > ask...................................... > > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent > of our > > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer > Gori > > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire > racism. > > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or > Bg > > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive > and > > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings > suggests it > > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army > appearing > > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army > forces, > > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > > independance, from the state which doent want to > repeal the > > special armed forces act, riddled in a political > struggle, > > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace > option not > > recognised? My reading of this however would not be > much > > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's > Son of > > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey............... > > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > > > kashmir..................................................................... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Rahul Asthana > > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > > > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case > for > > self-determination > > > > > > Hi Junaid, > > There is a difference between a colonized body of land > and > > a constituent state of a democracy. > > > > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are > defining > > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based > on > > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > > > > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying > nation in > > Kashmir or do > > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > > > > Thanks > > Rahul > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > > wrote: > > > > > From: Junaid > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no > case for > > self-determination > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > > fighting for its liberation. National > > > liberation struggles work on the democratic > principle > > of > > > self-determination.. This principle of > > self-determination > > > does not > > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > > > multinational document. > > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > > Charter > > > emerged from > > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is > the > > > foundational > > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the > bed > > rock > > > for peace. > > > > > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > > accepted. > > > And it proved > > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > > movement, > > > which > > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > > struggles in > > > the Indian > > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the > betrayal of > > > anti-colonial > > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz > said > > "Yeh > > > woh seher to > > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor > spoke > > when he > > > lamented > > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few > doors..."). > > > > > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the > same > > for > > > ever, but > > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each > other > > before > > > realising > > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > > struggle > > > and sacrifice > > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > > Colonisers > > > tried every > > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > > > > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > > > self-determination or > > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At > least > > it is > > > not > > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > > nationalists" > > > think they > > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that > Indian > > > nationalists for > > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > > faith--and in > > > fact is a > > > religious faith--would come around and change > their > > opinion > > > on it-- > > > least through discussion. What is important is > that > > > Kashmiris think > > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom > and > > > independence. It > > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > > struggle--first > > > against Dogra > > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case > in > > the > > > eyes of > > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > > > > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > > rolling > > > down the > > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > > people, > > > young people, > > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > > before > > > them) feel > > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More > and > > more > > > they > > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as > running > > counter > > > to any > > > individual or group affliation with the idea of > India. > > The > > > idea of > > > India is understood as something that stops them > from > > > being > > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly > unacceptable > > to > > > them. The idea > > > of independence has grown exponentially since > Sheikh > > > Abdullah's Naya > > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence > when it > > > couples itself > > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > > > > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > > solidarity > > > based on > > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of > feeding > > on > > > the notions > > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of > "the > > chosen > > > people". > > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > > however, > > > Kashmiris too > > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > > long-run > > > does not have > > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > > Islamophobia > > > cannot hold. > > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over > the > > world > > > which > > > otherwise the world have to contend with as > enemies. > > > Anti-Hindu > > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not > only a > > > result of the > > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of > how > > the > > > Indian > > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. > For > > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, > and > > then > > > the transfer > > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes > the > > > imperial-territorial > > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There > are > > no > > > doctrinal > > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims > can't sit > > and > > > live > > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No > one > > in > > > Srinagar > > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on > the > > red > > > fort. > > > > > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A > world > > which > > > is utterly > > > betrayed by the promises of the Third > World--which by > > > mimicking the > > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > > behaves > > > like former > > > colonial countries. > > > > > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be > given > > on a > > > platter. It > > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > > struggle by > > > Kashmiris. > > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much > but > > there > > > is very > > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so > will > > > oppression. But > > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. > India > > will > > > leave Kashmir > > > because there is no other way. I only hope it > doesn't > > > happen at the > > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > > subcontinent. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > >       > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, > photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 19 13:43:46 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:43:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <865947.90603.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70907190034l460cc6a8leb85bd39379cff1a@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <353438.58423.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Inder Salim Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 1:43:06 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination Indeed Quite enlighting, we were about to forget the reason behind the Army terror, not merely a piece of land but a piece of vote bank first given a free hand to continue then blamed on others, and tamed using armed forces. Just to keep equations intact, (your rigging part reminds me of the processions as well) Bravo. By the way except R&D, a sizeable portion each year goes into such arms and ammitions of short range like rifles bullets etc, which are not so much used in training and battles, with an ever increasing army, many armed men, dangerous sign in itlself, India can not still acount for much of it's ammunition expenditure, we say it's lost. Lost or Sold? ________________________________ From: Inder Salim To: reader-list Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 1:28:34 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination Dear All KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much as it was in 1947. Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations.  But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports fall in, they are already on Indian diet. The question, now is that who are these unfortunate  people who failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said on their role to divide Kashmir. Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous  other political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost of thousands of kashmiris dead,  for a cause or without a cause. It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. There are many reasons why a particular community turns fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can  white wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the issue. In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be  by looking into their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a sports. It is a big responsibility. With love and regards is On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of the current role of the Pakistan army. > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised criminal mafia which has full support of the United States administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > >> From: subhrodip sengupta >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM >> Dear Rahul, >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. >> Regards, >> Subhrodip. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rahul Asthana >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; >> subhrodip sengupta >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self >> Determination >> >> >> >> Dear Subhrodip, >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people >> like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. >> Thanks >> Rahul >> >> >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >> wrote: >> >> > From: subhrodip sengupta >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self >> Determination >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM >> > Dear all, >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land >> for >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of >> inheritance >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of >> > >> it......................................................................................................... >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian >> or by >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to >> > ask...................................... >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent >> of our >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are >> > needed.. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer >> Gori >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire >> racism. >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or >> Bg >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive >> and >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings >> suggests it >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army >> appearing >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army >> forces, >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of >> > independance, from the state which doent want to >> repeal the >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political >> struggle, >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace >> option not >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be >> much >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's >> Son of >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain >> > >> kashmir..................................................................... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Rahul Asthana >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case >> for >> > self-determination >> > >> > >> > Hi Junaid, >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land >> and >> > a constituent state of a democracy. >> > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are >> defining >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based >> on >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? >> > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying >> nation in >> > Kashmir or do >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? >> > >> > Thanks >> > Rahul >> > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid >> > wrote: >> > >> > > From: Junaid >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no >> case for >> > self-determination >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation >> > > fighting for its liberation. National >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic >> principle >> > of >> > > self-determination.. This principle of >> > self-determination >> > > does not >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other >> > > multinational document. >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN >> > Charter >> > > emerged from >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is >> the >> > > foundational >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the >> bed >> > rock >> > > for peace. >> > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely >> > accepted. >> > > And it proved >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization >> > movement, >> > > which >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial >> > struggles in >> > > the Indian >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the >> betrayal of >> > > anti-colonial >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz >> said >> > "Yeh >> > > woh seher to >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor >> spoke >> > when he >> > > lamented >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few >> doors..."). >> > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the >> same >> > for >> > > ever, but >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each >> other >> > before >> > > realising >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of >> > struggle >> > > and sacrifice >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. >> > Colonisers >> > > tried every >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. >> > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" >> > > self-determination or >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At >> least >> > it is >> > > not >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian >> > nationalists" >> > > think they >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that >> Indian >> > > nationalists for >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious >> > faith--and in >> > > fact is a >> > > religious faith--would come around and change >> their >> > opinion >> > > on it-- >> > > least through discussion. What is important is >> that >> > > Kashmiris think >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom >> and >> > > independence. It >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of >> > struggle--first >> > > against Dogra >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case >> in >> > the >> > > eyes of >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. >> > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles >> > rolling >> > > down the >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more >> > people, >> > > young people, >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations >> > before >> > > them) feel >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More >> and >> > more >> > > they >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as >> running >> > counter >> > > to any >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of >> India. >> > The >> > > idea of >> > > India is understood as something that stops them >> from >> > > being >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly >> unacceptable >> > to >> > > them. The idea >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since >> Sheikh >> > > Abdullah's Naya >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence >> when it >> > > couples itself >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. >> > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national >> > solidarity >> > > based on >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of >> feeding >> > on >> > > the notions >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of >> "the >> > chosen >> > > people". >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", >> > however, >> > > Kashmiris too >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the >> > long-run >> > > does not have >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. >> > Islamophobia >> > > cannot hold. >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over >> the >> > world >> > > which >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as >> enemies. >> > > Anti-Hindu >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not >> only a >> > > result of the >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of >> how >> > the >> > > Indian >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. >> For >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, >> and >> > then >> > > the transfer >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes >> the >> > > imperial-territorial >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There >> are >> > no >> > > doctrinal >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims >> can't sit >> > and >> > > live >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No >> one >> > in >> > > Srinagar >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on >> the >> > red >> > > fort. >> > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A >> world >> > which >> > > is utterly >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third >> World--which by >> > > mimicking the >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and >> > behaves >> > > like former >> > > colonial countries. >> > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be >> given >> > on a >> > > platter. It >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation >> > struggle by >> > > Kashmiris. >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much >> but >> > there >> > > is very >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so >> will >> > > oppression. But >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. >> India >> > will >> > > leave Kashmir >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it >> doesn't >> > > happen at the >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire >> > subcontinent. >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the >> > > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > >> > >> >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >>       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From jeebesh at sarai.net Sun Jul 19 14:48:09 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:48:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Peasant Mutiny Of 2009 Message-ID: The Peasant Mutiny Of 2009 Raigad’s poor farmers have stalled the might of Reliance. Now, can they impact the SEZ Act itself? ASEEM SHRIVASTAVA Development Writer THE FARMERS of Maharashtra’s Raigad district are waiting with a restless enthusiasm. After endless hunger strikes and people’s protests, they had tried something new. Rarely has an anti-sez people’s movement reached the halls of the Supreme Court. Sometime this month the court is expected to hold a final hearing that will determine the fate of over one lakh farmers in Raigad – whether their paddy fields will be converted into the world’s largest privately developed SEZ, or whether they will be allowed to retain their land. In 2003, Mukesh Ambani’s Reliance Industries Ltd had submitted a proposal for setting up a multi-product SEZ in Raigad across 14,000 hectares of Maharashtra land (an area the size of Chandigarh) in 45 villages in Pen, Panvel and Uran tehsils. An investment of Rs 40,000 crore and jobs for 20 lakh people were promised. Reliance also claimed its package (Rs 10 lakh per acre and training for a possible job in the factory) for the affected farmers was the best across the country. (A simple survey of other SEZs and industrial projects, though, shows that these promises of employment are rarely met.) As the project gained momentum, the anti-SEZ committee in the area launched a massive agitation, prompting a historic farmers’ referendum in September 2008. It was the first time that a public vote of this kind was sought and taken on an industrial/infrastructure/mining project anywhere in the country. Regardless of its outcome, it set a valuable precedent on ways of seeking consensus on the usage of land being taken over on the pretext of public interest. According to activists, over 85 percent of the voters in 22 villages where the referendum was held voted against the project, refusing to part with their lands. Perhaps this is the reason why the Maharashtra government has still not disclosed the results officially. Also why democracy is seen as such an inconvenience by governments and the business elite. Since June 2005, when the government gave its approval for the project, only 13 percent of the desired land has been acquired by Reliance despite six years of negotiations with farmers. The Supreme Court had already awarded Reliance two extensions to complete their negotiations. But last month, things began to shift in favour of the farmers. There is a legal stipulation that companies must acquire land within two years of getting a project approved. On June 5, the Supreme Court refused to give Reliance any more time to complete their negotiation. As these developments indicate, local activists in Raigad have worked very hard over the past few years to inform and organise farmers in the area to defend their lands and livelihoods against the project. In an ambitious public interest litigation, the MahaMumbai Shetkari Sangharsh Samiti (MMSSS), a farmers’ activist group from Raigad, has recently taken bold steps to question the constitutional validity of the SEZ Act itself. Last year, the SC had transferred over half a dozen SEZ cases from various high courts around the country to itself, so it could hear the issue in its entirety. It is soon expected to undertake hearings on these cases collectively, including the PIL from Raigad. The judgement on these hearings will prove crucial to the existence and form of the SEZ Act itself. With over 300 SEZs already functional and over 560 approved (the number of SEZs in India outstrip the number anywhere else in the world), the struggles against land acquisition continue around the country. If we chalked an SEZ resistance timeline, it would begin in 2007 with Nandigram, where the West Bengal government’s attempt to hand over fertile cultivated land to Indonesia’s Salim group was foiled by a courageous defence put up by farmers, led by their women. Infamously, 14 people were killed by security forces on March 14, 2007. Next would be the Goa struggle in 2008. Massive public protests over the past few years have led the government to withdraw the SEZ policy in Goa altogether. Twelve of the 15 proposed SEZs have been scrapped. Three SEZs that had been notified await a decision from the Central government. Next, there is the story of the huge POSCO steel project in Orissa, meant to bring in a record foreign investment of Rs 50,000 crore. That India’s largest FDI is being stalled continually since 2006 because of massive public opposition, is in itself notable. The latest addition to the timeline has been the Mahamumbai SEZ in Raigad, Maharashtra. DOZENS OF stories emerging from different regions of the country are slowly suggesting that peoples’ struggles in defence of their land, water, forests and livelihood have started to have a profound impact on the viability of a model of ‘development’. The process of industrialisation routinely transfers assets and opportunities from marginalised social groups in the countryside to those of us in the cities, already thriving under a thick canopy of privilege. Even where protests have failed to stop the project (as for instance in the case of the Mihan airport SEZ project near Nagpur, where in the village of Shipnagaon, women shaved off their heads in protest against the government’s landgrab), peoples’ movements have been successful at drawing attention to the obvious injustice of the SEZ policy. A farmers’ activist group from Raigad has boldly questioned the constitutional validity of the SEZ Act The battle over land for SEZs demonstrates the power of peoples’ movements. But why do they suddenly seem to be more effective? Nandigram, although it occured two years ago, continues to be an inspiration to peoples’ struggles across the country. It showed that if people are willing to pay the price, even a corrupt and criminalised State ultimately has to back down instead of forcing through “development” projects. The effectiveness of peoples’ struggles is based on the cumulative impact of resistance over time. It is a battle of patience between the State and the people. And sometimes, people do hold out longer than the state expects them to, as evidenced in both Raigad and Goa. But most importantly, the Raigad story shows that a skilful combination of political and judicial activism is more likely to work in peoples’ favour. Court cases take a while to get sorted out, especially when there is a provision in the statutes for the developer of an SEZ to acquire land within two years of the approval from the government. Given that the SEZ law came into force only in 2006, it is not surprising if in some places the court decision over the land happens only now. But while courts deliberate, the fire has to be kept going by a vigorous peoples’ resistance, constantly highlighting the issue in the media, as much as discussing and sharing information among the people themselves. Reliance is probably the toughest corporate on the block. But the Raigad struggle shows what lok shakti can do if it is determined. That finally, the poor peasant can bring the country’s most powerful corporate down on its knees, creating strong hopes of victory even where the battle is yet undecided. The SC ruling next month will have a decisive effect. Will it weigh in on the side of justice? http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=cr180709the_peasant.asp From image.science at donau-uni.ac.at Sun Jul 19 16:13:18 2009 From: image.science at donau-uni.ac.at (Image Science) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:43:18 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] live09 - Third World Conference on the Histories of Media Art, Science and Technology Message-ID: <4A6314E5.4147.007D.1@donau-uni.ac.at> Re:live09 - Third World Conference on the Histories of Media Art, Science and Technology. MELBOURNE 26-29 November 2009 The Media Art History national and international conference committees would like to invite you to attend the Re:live The latest world-wide media art history conference. Banff 2005 :: Berlin 2007 :: Melbourne 2009 Over three stimulating days, historians, curators, media artists, creative arts practitioners and theorists at the forefront of their practice will explore the latest research and theories. How do the media arts change? Through innovation, accident, discovery, mutation or crisis? How did contemporary media arts come to look and sound like they do? What options, potentialities and eccentricities in the history of media have been lost or overlooked or suppressed? What hopes have been realised and which dashed? What is the history of speculation on alternate histories, and how have they altered the course of media art history? CONFERENCE SESSIONS on the HISTORIES OF:: :: art-science-technology :: biology :: the environment :: liveness :: the life of machines :: innovation :: Keynote Presenters :: ZHANG GA :: DOUGLAS KAHN :: LISA GITELMAN We welcome you to join presenters for this extraordinary event. Preliminary speaker list includes: Marianne SCHMIDT, Slavko KACUNKO, McKenzie WARK, Luís QUINTAIS, Daniela Alina PLEWE, Gebhard SENGMUELLER, Morten SONDERGAARD, Andres BURBANO, Audrey SAMSOM, Denisa KERA, Ana PERAICA, Darko FRITZ, Gabriel Menotti GONRING, Andrea GLENIGER, Laura BELOFF, Simona CARACENI, Maggie MACNAB, Darren TOFTS, Frederik LESAGE, Lawrence BIRD, Natasha VITA-MORE, Mike LEGGETT, Eva KEKOU, Camille PALOQUE-BERGES, Nigel LLWYD, William HELYER, Mike STUBBS, Katja KWASTEK, Roger MALINA, Lizzie MULLER, Elena Giulia ROSSI, Martin CONSTABLE, Adele TAN, Danielle WILDE, Brogan BUNT, Mark GUGLIELMETTI, Margaret SEYMOUR, Oron CATTS, Melentie PANDILOVSKI, Ionat ZURR, Jennifer LADE, Stephen JONES, Paul SERMON, Christopher SALTER, Jihoon KIM, Jussi PARIKKA, Allison de FREN, Troy INNOCENT, Jon CATES, Nina WENHART, Susan BALLARD, Leon MARVELL, Rudy RUCKER, Ryszard W. KLUSZCZYNSKI, Daniel PALMER, Zita JOYCE, Lucas IHLEIN, Louise CURHAM, Lissa MITCHELL, Gabrielle Finnane, Cass MEERS, Virginia PITTS, Manosh CHOWDHURY. Francesca FRANCO, Sarah KENDERDINE, Pia EDNIE-BROWN, Anders CARLSSON, Rosana Horio MONTERIO, Suzette WORDEN, Stefano RAIMONDI, Cat HOPE, Jung-Yeon MA, Keiko COURDY, Margit ROSEN,Robrecht VANDERBEEKEN, O. PARASKEVOPOULOU, D. CHARITOS, V.LAMONTAGNE, Mathias FUCHS, Franck ANCEL, Joanna WALEWSKA, Monika GORSKA-OLESINSKA, Robert SWEENY, Caitlin JONES, Ernest EDMONDS, Michael CENTURY, Larissa HJORTH, Kathy Rae HUFFMAN, Jens HAUSER, Mike PHILLIPS,Thomas MICAL, Anne-Marie DUGET, Norman FORD, Helen Mary GRACE, Hector RODRIGUEZ, Ross HARLEY, Tapio MAKELA, Ken FRIEDMAN SEAN CUBITT and PAUL THOMAS :: Co Chairs Re:live09 :: Third International Conference on the Histories of Media Art, Science and Technology Conference :: The main conference will be held at Faculty of VCA and Music, University of Melbourne, featuring keynotes by invited speakers as well as international presenters selected by a peer review process, the selected Keynotes (as listed above) will be held in the evenings at the BMW Edge at Federation Square. National Committee :: Oron CATTS, Edward COLLESS, Eleanor GATES-STUART, Lisa GYE, Ross Rudesch HARLEY, Larissa HJORTH, Kim MACHAN, Leon MARVELL, Anna MUNSTER, Daniel PALMER, Melinda RACKHAM, Darren TOFTS International Advisory Board :: Andreas BROECKMANN, Berlin; Paul BROWN, London/Cotton Tree; Annick BUREAUD, Paris; Sara DIAMOND, Toronto; Diana DOMINGUES, Caxias do Sul; Timothy DRUCKREY, New York; Oliver GRAU, Krems; Gunalan NADARAJAN, Baltimore; Linda D. HENDERSON, Austin; Erkki HUHTAMO, Los Angeles; Douglas KAHN, Davis; Ángel KALENBERG, Montevideo; Ryszard KLUSZCZYNSKI, Lodz; Machiko KUSAHARA, Tokyo; Roger MALINA, Paris; W.J.T. MITCHELL, Chicago; Christiane PAUL, New York; Miklos PETERNAK, Budapest; Edward SHANKEN, Amsterdam; Barbara STAFFORD, Chicago; Jeffrey SHAW, Sydney; Peter WEIBEL, Karlsruhe; Steven WILSON, San Francisco Further information can be found at :: www.mediaarthistory.org Information about other key events connected to Re:live can be found at: www.mediaarthistories.org Super Human symposium: Melbourne 23rd-24th of November http://superhuman.anat.org.au/symposium.html Leonardo Education Forum (LEF), Melbourne, 26th of November 2009 http://www.leonardo.info/isast/lef.html (with: Paul THOMAS, Oliver GRAU, Ian CLOTHIER a.o.) :: forwarded by the Department for Image Science :: partner of Re:live and home of the Master of Arts programm in MediaArtHistories www.donau-uni.ac.at/mediaarthistories From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:32:43 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:32:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Badlaav_2009_=96_Indian_Youth_Summ?= =?windows-1252?q?it_on_Climate_Change?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From http://yatinsethi.blogspot.com/2009/07/badlaav-2009-indian-youth-summit-on.html Badlaav 2009: Be the Change! is a week-long climate camp to be held in the nation’s capital, Delhi. We aim to have hundreds of young people come from across the country to: - Be trained on skills of organizing, running projects, lobbying, direct action, presentations, and facilitation. - Participate in eye opening discussions of equity, theories of change, water, energy, agriculture etc. - To enjoy concerts, cultural performances, film festivals, green jobs fair and many other opportunities to have fun and learn! When? July 18th to July 24th Who? Being organised by Indian Youth Climate Network (IYCN) for you and hundreds of youth from across India. Where? Lodhi Institutional Area, Delhi Why? Have you ever looked at the dirty dying rivers, floods, breathed in the pollution, see people on the streets living with diseases and in poverty, and just wondered – how can we change this? Do we wish to witness incidences like Cyclone Aila in West Bangal more frequently? Are we ready to handle the increased number of climate refugees? Our basic requirement like food and shelter is at risk. Have you ever thought that our politicians are corrupt, our businesses are corrupt, our system is corrupt and that it is too hard to make a change? Have you ever thought why doesn’t anyone care about our country, our planet, our future? Think again. At the end of this year in Copenhagen an international treaty will be signed, committing the world to trying to stop dangerous climate change at the UN climate negotiations. However a lot of the world holds little hope that it will be a good treaty that will protect our future. The interest of the Indian people and majority of the developing world are not being listened to. What do we do? Do we sit back and let the countries of the world sign away our future stability? No. We don’t. We take action. Contact: Anu Radha Verma - anuradha at iycn.in - +91 989 108 4960 Anurag Maloo - anu.maloo.it at gmail.com - +91 971 806 6013 Tejeswar Parida - tejeswarparida at gmail.com - +91 999 997 4473 Snigdha Kar - karsnigdha25 at gmail.com - +91 981 874 5466 From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:33:16 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:33:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Graphic novel about Iran elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Read about it here: http://blog.prathambooks.org/2009/07/persepolis-20-graphic-novel-about-iran.html#links From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:34:03 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:34:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 360 Degrees Longitude - A Book That Uses Google Earth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Read the article here http://blog.prathambooks.org/2009/07/360-degrees-longitude-book-that-uses.html#links From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:34:36 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:34:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Oscar_van_Leer_Fellowship_2009_for?= =?windows-1252?q?_journalism_about_early_chilhood_development_and_?= =?windows-1252?q?children=92s_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From http://www.bernardvanleer.org/ovlf/call Call for applications – Oscar van Leer Fellowship 2009 The Bernard van Leer Foundation is pleased to announce the inaugural Oscar van Leer Fellowship. We invite applications from journalists in qualifying countries (Mexico, Kenya, India (Orissa), Peru, Colombia, South Africa, Tanzania, Uganda and Caribbean Region) who have an interest in covering children’s issues. Three fellowships will be awarded, consisting of high-level professional training in skills related to journalism about early chilhood development and children’s rights. A four-week, expenses-paid professional training course in the Netherlands conducted by the Radio Netherlands Training Centrewill be provided to the successful candidates. This is a great opportunity for young journalists to further their general profesional development and to establish for themselves a particular area of expertise. *About the fellowship* The Bernard van Leer Foundation is an international philanthropic foundation based in The Hague that seeks to improve opportunities for disadvantaged young children. It has a long and respected track record of working internationally on early childhood development and children’s rights. The Oscar van Leer Fellowship commemorates Oscar van Leer, the son of the foundation’s benefactor. The inaugural fellowship also marks the foundation’s 60th anniversary. One of the difficulties the foundation encounters is that young children’s issues are often poorly understood in media coverage, if they are covered at all. The aim of the Oscar van Leer Fellowship is to contribute to a gradual improvement in the quality and quantity of media coverage of early childhood issues by training up-and-coming journalists, giving them knowledge and understanding that they will be able to apply as they progress in their journalistic careers. *Who should apply?* The fellowship is intended for ambitious young journalists with an interest in children’s issues. We don’t expect you to be an expert in children’s issues already – that’s why we’re offering training. But we want you to be interested in learning more about the issues faced by disadvantaged young children, and the ways in which media coverage can raise awareness and shape opinions of them. Applicants must be connected to a reputable media outlet, either as an employee or as a frequently published freelance contributor, and must intend to continue to pursue a career in the media. The fellowship is open to journalists in all forms of media, including print, radio, television and web. *Application procedure* You should send us, by no later than 18 August 2009: - A completed application form - A letter of motivation - Your resumé (please include an indication of the reach of the media outlet/s for which you work, in terms of circulation or audience figures) - One example of your work, which has something to do with the situation of children in your country. This could be a piece of writing, a short film or radio broadcast. It can be something you have had published already, or it can be something you produce especially for the purpose of accompanying this application. We would like to publish on our website the work submitted by shortlisted candidates, so if the work you submit has been published already, please ensure this would not cause copyright issues. See the "how to apply " page for details of where to send your application and in what format. Successful candidates will be announced on 01 October 2009, and will be invited to a presentation in The Hague on 11 November 2009. The training will take place in early 2010. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:35:25 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:35:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Donation of CD players for Visually Challenged in Hyderabad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From http://fundacause.posterous.com/donation-of-cd-players-for-the-visually-impai Donation of CD Players for the Visually Impaired - Andhra Pradesh >From norisastry at yahoo.com July 18, 2009 Subject: Needed Sponsors to donate CD players to 300 blind students in colleges in AP. Needed Sponsors to donate Rs 4.0 lakhs to buy 300 CD players for blind students in colleges, who cant use talking books available to them. Donation is exempt from Income tax . If you give a CD player to a blind student, he can get not only BA degree, but also a job. Samrita Trust donated talking books to 30 colleges in AP with 500 blind students. Samrita Trust also donated 200 CD players to the colleges, But 300 blind students dont have them. Each CD player costs Rs 1300 only. Name: AVM(Retd)N.S. Sastry, Managing Trustee Organisation: SAMRITA TRUST Location: Hyderabad, Andhra Pradfesh. Email 1: norisastry at yahoo.com Email 2: nssastry at samritatrust.org Phone: +919908208996 About Me: I am a retired Air Force officer. I founded SAMRITA TRUST to help blind students for their education. TEN more like minded persons help the Trust as volunteers. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:36:03 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:36:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Radio Bundelkhand: Community Radio for facilitating dialogue and interactive communication In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Read the article here: http://www.thebetterindia.com/824/radio-bundelkhand-giving-voice-to-the-voiceless/ From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:36:37 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:36:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Digital Open: online technology community and competition for youth around the world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://digitalopen.org/ The Digital Open is an online technology community and competition for youth around the world, age 17 and under. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:37:15 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:37:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An Original Novel On Twitter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 3,700 Tweets And 480,000 Characters Later, There Will Be An Original Novel On Twitter by MG Siegler on July 14, 2009 Who says 140 characters isn’t enough to say something constructive? Matt Stewart is writing an entire novel that way. Yes, Stewart is publishing his entire 480,000 character book at 130 characters at a time (to leave room for hashtags and links) on Twitter. To be clear, the book, called The French Revolution(being released today, appropriately on Bastille Day), is already written. But Stewart and his agent couldn’t get any publishers to bite, so they decided to go the non-traditional route, to say the least. Here’s how this works: Every so often, Stewart is tweeting out sentences (or incomplete sentences) from the book. No, he’s not doing this by hand, he got a programmer to help him automate the process. The result is slowly spilling out the entire narrative of the book to his Twitter feed . If you think this would be impossible to follow in a regular stream of tweets, you’re right. That’s why Stewart has a websitechronicling the whole story thus far (or, of course, you can simply click on his Twitter page to read it — though backwards). Stewart expects that will will take about 3,700 tweets to get the full story out there. Others have taken this approach to put pieces of writing on Twitter, and plenty have even crowd-sourced the writing of works on the service. But Stewart believes his is the first full-length literary novel to be released first on Twitter. To commemorate the launch, you can also find his book for free on Scribd, or find it on Amazon’s Kindle for $1.99. The obvious question is: Is the book any good? It’s too hard to tell at this point. We’re only about 80 updates into the 3,700. Regardless, this seems like a good idea for a guy who couldn’t get a book deal. Who knows, maybe he’ll even land a book deal now to write about his experience in publishing a book on Twitter. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 01:38:22 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:38:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 10 Ways Journalism Schools are Teaching Social Media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 10 Ways Journalism Schools are Teaching Social Media http://mashable.com/2009/06/19/teaching-social-media/ Excerpts here: With news organizations beginning to create special positions to manage the use of social media tools, such as the recently appointed social editor at The New York Times , journalism schools are starting to recognize the need to integrate social media into their curricula. That doesn’t mean having a class on Facebook Facebook[image: Facebook] or Twitter Twitter[image: Twitter], which many college students already know inside and out, but instead means that professors are delving into how these tools can be applied to enrich the craft of reporting and producing the news and ultimately telling the story in the best possible way. And though many professors are still experimenting and learning how these tools can be used, below are the 10 ways journalism schools are currently teaching students to use social media. Please share in the comments others that you have found to be important and effective as well. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 08:25:32 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:25:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Save 247 Kashmiri Migrant families Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907191955j12e1a1bdgc7313e70e1bf5327@mail.gmail.com> Hello : Got this mail , a yet another case of how Kashmiri Migrants are being discriminated. I wonder if anyone from Sarai can help or guide to resolve this issue. Subject: - Regularization of services of Kashmiri Migrant Teachers working in Directorate of Education and MCD Govt. of NCT of Delhi. In 1994, we, the Kashmiri Migrant Teachers were recruited on contractual basis in the above mentioned departments against clear vacant posts under the then recruitment rules.  At that time, we had responded against advertisement in daily Indian Express dated 31st May, 1994 for the posts of TGT’s, PGT’s. and other posts. After 1994, the orders for continuation of services were issued on yearly basis i.e. from April 1st to March 31st. This issuance of yearly basis orders continued till 2005 and in the year 2006 the orders for continuation of services were issued for a period of three years i.e up to 31st March, 2009. All the Kashmiri Migrant Teachers working in above mentioned departments are governed by the same set of rules and regulations as applicable to other regular teachers. All the Kashmiri Migrant Teachers are performing all sorts of duties, inside and outside school as and when assigned by the HOD’s, DDE’s and other Department Heads, be it Seminars, Election duties, Surveys etc. We are working at par with regular teachers in all respects but so far as the salaries are concerned we merely get 1/3rd of the salary of the regular teachers with no other service benefits like Earned leave, maternity leave,  pay for summer vacation etc. It is very strange that an employee, who serves the department for 10 months as a full time worker is denied salary for summer vacation. Presently we are getting a salary of Rs. 11,140/- and Rs. 13,160/- consolidate for TGT’s and PGT’s respectively as compared to regular teachers who get Rs. 33,000/- and 38,523/-. Besides this measure difference in salary we are getting only 8 days Casual / Sick Leave for a whole year.  No other leave or other benefits are provided to us. Now after implementation of Sixth Pay Commission, the salary of a Kashmiri Migrant Teacher is less than a class four employee of the same department. Thanking you, Representative From itsnishant at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 09:34:24 2009 From: itsnishant at gmail.com (Nishant Shah) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:04:24 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] WikiWars: Call for Participation, 12th-13th January, 2010 Message-ID: *WikiWars Call for Participation; 12th, 13th January, 2010, Bangalore Event One for the Critical Point of View Reader* *CPOV (CRITICAL POINT OF VIEW) CONTEXT: *The Wikipedia has emerged as the de facto global reference of dynamic knowledge. Different stakeholders – Wikipedians, users, academics, researchers, gurus of Web 2.0, publishing houses and governments have entered into fierce debates and discussions about what the rise of Wikipedia and Wiki cultures means and how they influence the information societies we live in. The Wikipedia itself has been at the centre of much controversy, pivoted around questions of accuracy, anonymity, vandalism, expertise and authority. The Centre for Internet and Society (Bangalore, India) and the Institute of Network Cultures (Amsterdam, Netherlands) are working together to produce a critical Reader on Wikipedia and to build a Wikipedia Knowledge Network. Under the rubric CPOV, we propose two events that bring together different perspectives, approaches, experiences and stories that critically explore different questions and concerns around Wikipedia. The proceeds from these two events will result in a Reader that consolidates critical points of view about Wikipedia. *WIKIWARS CONFERENCE:* The first conference to be held in Bangalore, called WikiWars, invites participation from users, scholars, academics, practitioners, artists and other cultural workers, to share their experiences, ideas, experiments, innovations, applications and stories about Wikipedia. The WikiWars conference embodies the spirit that guides an open encyclopaedia like the Wikipedia, by referring to the edit battles that users enter into over topics that have many points of view. WikiWars also refers to the contradictory positions adopted by different stakeholders on the various issues of credibility, authority, verifiability and truth-telling, on the Wikipedia. This conference calls for diverse and varied knowledges to come together in a critical dialogic space that informs and augments our understanding of the Wikipedia. *CONFERENCE THEMES:* The possible themes and areas for presentations (projects, experiences, experiments, stories or documentation) can include but are not limited to: - Wiki Theory: Endorse, question/contest or delineate the theoretical approaches and view points on the Wikipedia - Wikipedia and Critique of Western Knowledge Production: The predominance of textual or linguistic cultures, post-western knowledge production systems, and indigenous knowledge systems - Wiki Art: Art that uses Wikipedia models, structures or data to explore and expand the practice of Wikipedia project; and accounts that document Wikipedia based art practices or debates - Designing Debate: Suggestions, innovations, critiques and ideas that focus on the design and form of the Wikipedia, to explore the claims of neutrality, objectivity, emergent hierarchy, control and authenticity on the Wikipedia - Critique of Free and Open: Areas like Wikipedia governance, economic practices of and around Wikipedia, and the nature of freedom in usage, production and participation on the Wikipedia - Global Politics of Exclusion: Exploring questions of non-western material inclusion, language, connectedness, oral histories, women, non-geeks, and alternative material that cannot be documented on Wikipedia etc. - The Place of Resistance: Space of resistance and dissent in the Wikipedia, structures that allow for alternative voices, experiences and ideas - Wikipedia and Education: Wikipedia usage in classrooms as a teaching resource, and its effect on pedagogy, the role of Wikipedia in the knowledge production sector, and mobilisation of academic communities around the Wikipedia For detailed information on each theme, please go to http://cis-india.org/publications/workshops/conference-blogs/Wikiwars *WHO SHOULD APPLY:* The conference in Bangalore aims to bring together an interesting mix of diverse voices from different cultures, geo-political spaces, and context-based practices from around the world, to start consolidating the approaches, experiences, and impact of the Wikipedia: 1. Students and Wikipedia users who belong to different local chapters or have editorial/contribution experiences on the Wikipedia, 2. Academics and publishers who are exploring the changes caused by Wikipedia, both in classroom pedagogy and in knowledge production systems, 3. Researchers and theoreticians, practitioners and proponents, artists and social activists, who are interested in Wikipedia cultures and their socio-political conditions, should be attending this conference. *HOW TO APPLY: *To apply for the conference, please send the following information by email to infowiki at cis-india.org by the 31st of August, 2009. 1. A note of interest (450 - 700 words) detailing your ideas and possible contribution 2. Your updated resume 3. A sample of your work (term papers, published articles, peer-reviewed papers, books, art-projects, social intervention projects etc.) *CONFERENCE TIME-LINE:* *Last Date for submitting Note of Interest and Funding options – 31st August, 2009 Announcement of short-listed proposals – 21st September, 2009. Sharing of Detailed Proposals with all participants – 15th December, 2009 Announcement of Conference Schedule and Logistics – 30th December 2009 Online Registration for non-presenting participants – 3rd January 2010 Conference Dates – 12th, 13th January 2010 * *TRAVEL SUPPORT:* Travel support is available for some of the conference participants (national and international). The selected participants will be provided with the basic travel and accommodation costs for the duration of the conference from their home-countries/cities to travel to Bangalore for the conference. If you are applying for travel support, please indicate clearly in your “Note of Interest” any of these three options: 1. Full travel support required. 2. Partial travel support required with estimate. 3. Travel support not required. Travel support will be provided by the conference organisers on a case-by-case basis. *CONFERENCE ORGANISERS: *Sunil Abraham (Sunil at cis-india.org) and Nishant Shah (Nishant at cis-india.org ), Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore. If there are any queries regarding the WikiWars conference please write to us. *RESEARCH AND EDITORIAL TEAM:* Geert Lovink and Sabine Niederer (Amsterdam), Nathaniel Tkacz (Melbourne), Johanna Niesyto (Siegen), Sunil Abraham and Nishant Shah (Bangalore). -- Nishant Shah Doctoral Candidate, CSCS, Bangalore. Director (Research), Centre for Internet and Society,( www.cis-india.org ) Asia Awards Fellow, 2008-09 # 00-86-21-66130376 From anansi1 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 20 09:38:22 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:08:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Solidarity with Iran - July 25, a video, a song Message-ID: <277287.1248062903418.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey People - this July 25, there's an amazing series of events to support democracy in Iran. This is a song I did with an amazing Iranian singer, Sussan Deyhim, which will be presented as part of the protest situation - we're presenting it with United 4 Iran. The poem is based on a work by the poet Rumi from several centuries ago, but it still resonates with today's geopolitics - it's in Farsi, but for English speakers, there will be a translation posted. In conjunction with United 4 Iran, a group of political activists, artists, writers, and musicians have organized a global protest in conjunction with many other movements. If you have a moment, please check out the material, and organize a local event to support the people of Iran. Watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw7_Pa1K3oU and check out the situation: http://united4iran.org/ Join this unprecedented wave of global citizen activism for the people of Iran. On July 25, participate in an event in one of more than 50 cities around the world. I'm in a remote area of the planet, but am trying to get word out. We did the video over the last couple of days via remote edting. Already U2 and many other musicians and artists have joined. For example, U2 is projecting the lyrics of the song during their concerts... Please spread word! in peace, Paul aka Dj Spooky From anansi1 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 20 09:46:58 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:16:58 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Slight correction - Solidarity with Iran - July 25, a video, a song Message-ID: <7129656.1248063418848.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Slight correction: the video and all of the participating cities are listed here: http://united4iran.org/locations Hey People - this July 25, there's an amazing series of events to support democracy in Iran. This is a song I did with an amazing Iranian singer, Sussan Deyhim, which will be presented as part of the protest situation - we're presenting it with United 4 Iran. The poem is based on a work by the poet Rumi from several centuries ago, but it still resonates with today's geopolitics - it's in Farsi, but for English speakers, there will be a translation posted. In conjunction with United 4 Iran, a group of political activists, artists, writers, and musicians have organized a global protest in conjunction with many other movements. If you have a moment, please check out the material, and organize a local event to support the people of Iran. Watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw7_Pa1K3oU and check out the situation: http://united4iran.org/ Join this unprecedented wave of global citizen activism for the people of Iran. On July 25, participate in an event in one of more than 50 cities around the world. http://united4iran.org/locations I'm in a remote area of the planet, but am trying to get word out. We did the video over the last couple of days via remote edting. Already U2 and many other musicians and artists have joined. For example, U2 is projecting the lyrics of the song during their concerts... Please spread word! in peace, Paul aka Dj Spooky From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 11:59:11 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:59:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] British Council's Debate Competition for Class 11 & 12 Students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kirti Manian Date: 2009/7/20 Subject: Debating Matters Dear Chandni, The British Council has launched Debating Matters and I would appreciate if you can spread the word about the same :) Debating Matters is an exciting new national debate that has been initiated by the British Council, in partnership with the Institute of Ideas of London, as part of its Intercultural Dialogue Project. It is a debating competition with a difference for students. In India the competition is *for Class XI and XII students only. *Debating Matters is a very successful debate competition in the UK, pioneered by the Institute of Ideas and supported by Wellcome Trust, in the UK and in India. In the first ever Debating Matters competition held in India for 2008-09, S M Choksey High School and Junior College, Pune won the first ever Debating Matters competition held in India. They travelled to the UK to compete with the UK Debating Matters champions and won the first exhibition debate. The format for Debating Matters is rigorous and competitive with a strong emphasis on students researching their arguments well. Debating Matters seeks to encourage students to engage with the specifics and complexities of issues that arise in the real world today. Debating Matters is an innovative and challenging way for students to engage with their peers and learn more about the world they live in through research and debate in real time topics. Please check out the video for Debating Matters Year One at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMdp7iuDFvo&feature=channel_page We encourage your institution to apply. For registration please log onto – http://www.britishcouncil.org.in/debatingmattersindia/index.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 20 12:17:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:47:44 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Unique ID card - will it be the last one? -152 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907192347p257bed25ic9b93f79a9d8f589@mail.gmail.com> http://www.merinews.com/article/unique-id-card---will-it-be-the-last-one/15776517.shtml The government's ambitious project to prepare a unique ID and national database for all Indian citizens, is a bold and innovative step, but will it be the last card a citizen is to be supplied? Will it serve as the master card of all cards?. THE GOVERNMENT of India came out with the bold decision of establishing an authority, namely the National Authority for Unique Identity (ID), headed by Nandan Nilekani, co-founder of Infosys, to issue unique ID cards to Indian citizens. Nilekani, for his part, did the right and honourable thing of quitting from his corporate post before undertaking this huge challenge. The budget has allocated Rs120 crores for this job also and the stage is set for this work to begin. Nilekani himself has said that first batch of such cards will be made available for distribution sometime in the last month of this year. Secretarial infrastructure for this enormous task is being set up and personnel necessary for secretarial back-up is being provided. One RS Sharma, an IAS officer of the Jharkhand cadre, has been made second man in this authority. We hope that things move at a smooth pace. Nilekani has hinted that each citizen will be allotted a unique number and that the details will be tamper-proof. Such citizen cards have become very necessary in view of the growing problem of illegal immigration especially from countries like Bangladesh and Nepal, and also the threat of terrorism. A task of such a magnitude is not without its hitches, especially in the face of the harsh reality of vote bank politics. Will it be master card of all cards Coming to the technicalities of this card, he said that this Unique ID would not replace existing ID cards or numbers which Indians have been issued in documents like passports, ration cards, PAN cards, etc. This means that these cards shall remain in existence alongside the proposed Unique ID. Nilekani clarified that the Unique ID numbers may be used in other numbers or cards issued by various authorities for specific purposes. Nilekani's clarification has cleared doubts from the minds of billions of common people who thought that this proposed Unique ID shall relieve them of carrying and preserving dozens of other cards in their shelves or lockers. Cards, cards and cards In our country it is difficult to even count that how many documents one citizen is required to keep for managing day-to-day concerns. Even people living below the poverty line (BPL) poor are issued ‘job cards’ to be eligible for employment under NREGS. The government says it is committed to providing them with essential commodities like rice, wheat, and cooking oil, either at subsidised rate or free of cost. To this end, BPL families are issued cards like white cards, red cards, yellow cards - the colour of these cards change with the government and in some cases changes with the collector. People living above the poverty line (APL) are also entitled to food grains from Public Distribution System (PDS) shops; colourful cards have been issued towards this end as well. Apart from these social security cards, almost every department issues cards or numbers to citizens for specific purposes. For instance, the IT department issues PAN cards, the sales tax department of provincial governments issues various numbers to businessmen to carry out their businesses. Apart from this, the common citizen has to furnish a host of other ID proofs when one has to open a bank account or applies for a driving license. In a nutshell, a law-abiding citizen has been asked to keep innumerable documents with him. Other Articles by Om Prakash Yadav Will it be the last card? When TN Seshan had assumed charge as Chief Election Commissioner (CEC) of the Election Commission of India (ECI), he came out with an idea of providing Voting ID cards to check bogus voting and cleanse the electoral system. At that point of time, it was conceived that this ID cards would be multiple-purpose and would replace all other cards which are being used for identification and establishing citizenship claims. This idea was widely appreciated initially, and people thought that perhaps preparation of these cards would put to an end all the hardships they faced in this regard. The campaign began with huge fanfare and enthusiasm. Some states did magnificently well with regards to percentage of ID cards prepared. Unfortunately, even after two decades, the process has not seen completion. Needless to say, the exercise has seen large-scale irregularities and factual errors in entries. We need not be pessimistic about this programme however. We hope that all goes well but the challenge is that Nilekani will have to depend on imperfect data to begin with. Only time will tell what modus operandi Nilekani would resort to and adopt in order to make this Unique ID error-free and final. We hope that this will be the last such exercise. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 20 12:22:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:52:19 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] No identity, no job: India undertakes ambitious identity database to help the poor Message-ID: <65be9bf40907192352y3688aec4s65a30224c3cf2c95@mail.gmail.com> http://blog.taragana.com/n/no-identity-no-job-india-undertakes-ambitious-identity-database-to-help-the-poor-112372/ Erika Kinetz July 17th, 2009 ID’ing the masses may solve Indian identity crisis MUMBAI, India — It’s a problem of mind-boggling complexity: How do you identify 1.2 billion people without documents, who sometimes rely just on word of mouth to establish who they are? The man tasked with solving this problem is outsourcing guru Nandan Nilekani, who rose to prominence as a founder of Infosys Technologies Ltd., India’s second-largest outsourcing firm. He began work this week as director of the Unique Identification Authority of India, an ambitious new government initiative that aims to assign unique, verifiable identification numbers to every single Indian. “It keeps me awake at night, thinking what the hell have I got into,” said Nilekani, 54. Indians of means can flash passports, driver’s licenses, and credit cards to establish who they are. But the poor rely on a jumble of electricity bills, ration cards, voting cards, and letters from local officials — none of which is foolproof. That has made it harder for them to get jobs, open bank accounts and establish property rights, stymieing their ability to participate in, and in turn fuel, India’s growth. It has also increased the potential for graft in India’s massive social subsidy programs. Nilekani, who has spent his first few days on the job working out of a temporary office in New Delhi in a whirlwind of meetings with government officials, has become an expert at expounding the revolutionary social potential of technology. “Identity has become a basis for exclusion,” he said over coffee in Mumbai, shortly before he started his new job. “The poor have no access to identity. Therefore all the time they are running around re-establishing their identity.” His best-selling 2008 book, “Imagining India: Ideas for the New Country,” reads like a blueprint for improving governance in India — though he insists that when he wrote it he wasn’t plugging for public office. The book even has a section devoted to national identity cards, which he said would be “transformational” in improving the quality of government services, reducing graft, and making India’s economic growth more inclusive. “Every piece of life becomes easier,” he said. “Just the simple act of saying I stand by who this person claims he is. Can you imagine the value of that?” Unlike in the United States, top business people in India rarely enter public service. If Nilekani succeeds, he could inspire others to make the shift. His challenge is twofold: He must get everyone — including people in remote tribal areas — an identification number, and he must ensure that there are no duplicates. Nilekani plans to create a central database of names, modeled on India’s electronic securities depository, and use biometrics — probably some combination of fingerprint and facial identification — to ensure that every Indian gets assigned one and only one number. The first batch of IDs will come out in 12 to 18 months, he said, but declined to specify how long it might take to complete the rollout. The agency’s initial budget is 1.2 billion rupees ($24.6 million), but the total cost will likely be far higher. “It will take years and years and years,” Nilekani said. “Even if it costs a bit of money, if a few hundred million poor people get better public services, it’s worth its weight in gold.” Just ask Pralhad Dandekar. A wiry 58-year-old fisherman, Dandekar has been waiting two years for the state government to issue him the fisherman identity card he is required to carry with him when he heads out to sea. “I wait, wait, wait,” he said. The process of getting a fisherman identity card — which became compulsory for fishermen after the November terror attack on Mumbai — is so predictably and excruciatingly slow that at least three dozen fishermen societies in Mumbai have started issuing temporary identity cards, so people can work while they await their state government ID. Dandekar has one, and that’s the only reason he’s able to ply his trade — and bring food home for his wife and two daughters — while he waits. The complexity does not end there. All those cards are only good in the state of Maharashtra. “I need a card that will work all over India,” said fisherman Shiv Kumar Chinna Coundar, 38. Every time he docks in a port in a different state, he has to get permission from the customs office. The more permissions required, the more “chai pani” — literally, “tea water,” a local term for bribes — you have to pay, he and others say. “If they gave us a national identity card, then I wouldn’t have to pay chai pani in any state,” Coundar said. There’s also the question of security. Absent a foolproof means to establish who someone is, many only hire people they know — cutting off the stream of hungry migrants who pour into Mumbai from jobs. Boat owner Laxman Hiraji Dhanur, 60, said he has become more concerned about security since last year’s terror attack on Mumbai. Dhanur lives amid a bright jumble of fishing boats, now docked for the monsoon rains, in Bhai Bhandarkar Machimar Colony — the same fishing village 10 Pakistani attackers sneaked through last November before fanning out in pairs to lay siege to the city, killing 166. Five miles off the coast of this sleepy jumble of shanties, Ajmal Kasab, the only surviving attacker, allegedly slit the throat of the navigator of a hijacked fishing boat. Such stories send a chill through Dhanur. He said he can never know for certain if people are who they say — or even if they are really Indian citizens. “I only hire my relatives and friends,” he said. “If we had a foolproof national identity card, I wouldn’t worry so much.” He said he might even hire strangers. Writ large, that small shift in attitude could mean easier access to jobs for millions of Indians. And that would be a transformation. From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Jul 20 14:09:40 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:09:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If you love the Himalayas, well too bad Message-ID: <8C4B91F8-15E1-4517-A45E-6C6164864BD9@sarai.net> http://greatindiansale.blogspot.com/2009/07/if-you-love-himalayas-well-too-bad.html Himalayas. Our last escape. Every one of us runs to the hills to get a sense of life and reality. Over the last few years haven’t we all noticed how the Himalayas are being eaten away? There has been a rumble of construction in ecologically fragile areas. There has been much too much garbage strewn around hopelessly. There has been dams which have come up without any environmental clearance. And you didn’t know that perhaps, there are plans afoot to build a massive ski village (which will use acrylic to make snow, hurray!) that will host winter Olympics and some such. The grandson of Mr. Ford is involved in that, no less. The truth is, we can say goodbye to the Himalayas. While we were busy “raiding da Himalayas”, they were busy being sold off. Forest fires were busily ‘degrading’ forests. Poachers were busy ringing death knells in the night of god knows how many species. So unless you want to go to the Himalayas and spend time in swanky malls, there isn’t much hope left for you. Before I forget. Some years back a Delhi girl landed up in Kasauli and looked around and asked, incredulously, what…no McDonalds? Here are a few links. Just remember, the news is all around you. Look for it in places you don’t look for. We are sure, if you know what is going on, maybe, maybe you will act. Unless you are desperate for a Chicken Mc Nugget in the valley of flowers. Ps: before you see how we are destroying the Himalayas, here is a little paragraph on how “environmental clearances” are being attained for everything: http://tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=hub310109environment_clearence.asp Are we destroying the Himalyas? Hydro-electric projects in Himalayas http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/11/13/are_we_destroying_the_himalayas Himalyan Ski Village in Himachal http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/ski-village-in-himachal.html In Arunanchal 104 large hydroelectric projects of a cumulative capacity of 55,556 MW coming up: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main38.asp?filename=cr120408rumble_jungle.asp Dam on Ganga riverbed govt announces pilot study http://www.livemint.com/2008/11/12230236/Govt-announces-pilot-study-on.html?d=1 Happy reading. From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Jul 20 14:24:22 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:24:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gurgaon Workers News: November Newsletter Message-ID: <43b6fa0f3dd176f79d45007a090f6ba2@sarai.net> GurgaonWorkersNews - Newsletter 19 (July 2009) (full version on: www.gurgaonworkersnews.wordpress.com) Gurgaon in Haryana is presented as the shining India , a symbol of capitalist success promising a better life for everyone behind the gateway of development. At a first glance the office towers and shopping malls reflect this chimera and even the facades of the garment factories look like three star hotels. Behind the facade, behind the factory walls and in the side streets of the industrial areas thousands of workers keep the rat-race going, producing cars and scooters for the middle-classes which end up in the traffic jam on the new highway between Delhi and Gurgaon. Thousands of young middle class people lose time, energy and academic aspirations on night-shifts in call centres, selling loan schemes to working-class people in the US or pre-paid electricity schemes to the poor in the UK . Next door, thousands of rural-migrant workers uprooted by the agrarian crisis stitch and sew for export, competing with their angry brothers and sisters in Bangladesh or Vietnam . And the rat-race will not stop; on the outskirts of Gurgaon, Asia 's biggest Special Economic Zone is in the making. The following newsletter documents some of the developments in and around this miserable boom region. If you want to know more about working and struggling in Gurgaon, if you want more info about or even contribute to this project, please do so via: www.gurgaonworkersnews.wordpress.com gurgaon_workers_news at yahoo.co.uk In the July 2009 issue you can find: 1) Proletarian Experiences - Daily life stories and reports from a workers' perspective *** Thermo Workers Power to Quit Work - Short report by a worker who was employed on a site of the Rashtrya Taap Vidyut Nigam / NTCP (National Thermo-Electricity Corporation). The biggest contractor on site is the multi-national construction company Larson and Tubro. *** Worker who works his machine in various textile export factories - Short report from a worker who is shifted from factory to factory - together with the special sewing machines he runs. The machines are owned by a contractor who gets orders from various textile export companies. *** Short report by older daily wage worker drudging for Food Corporation of India since 30 years- One of 30,000 daily workers employed by the public Bhartiya Khadya Nigam. For several years he has worked in a huge storage hall in Delhi industrial area. *** Supply Chain Gang: Five short stories of workers manufacturing parts for Maruti Suzuki, Honda and Hero Honda in Gurgaon - The workers are employed by Motherson Sumi, Denso, DM, Super Auto and Hightech Auto in Faridabad and Gurgaon industrial area. The parts they manufacture end up at the assembly lines of, amongst others, Maruti Suzuki, Honda HMSI and Hero Honda in Gurgaon and the German company Knorr Bremse. 2) Collective Action - Reports on proletarian struggles in the area *** Report on struggle of temp and casual workers at world's biggest motor-bike factory Hero Honda in Dharuhera (Gurgaon/Manesar) - The story and outcome of their struggle reminds us of many similar conflicts in the area's recent past: angry casual and temp workers, a collective action, some tactical negotiations and repression from the company, the attempt to form a union, a mass lock-out and dismissals, hundreds of replaced workers hoping for a legal solution... 3) According to Plan - General information on the development of the region or on certain company policies *** The Gurgaon Model and a Murder - Documentation of an older article on the legal adjustments which were undertaken in order to convert Gurgaon farm-land into real estate assets throughout the 1990s. It gives an idea of the collaboration between village and rural hierarchy, the local political class and (multi-national) real estate developers. The outcome of the sudden money inflow is brutalisation... *** Water Wars - Short glimpse on the waterfront. Short summary of a newly published report on global water privatisation. Then a look at the local water crisis. A dyeing worker reports on how water-wastage in the dyeing industry in the Delhi industrial belt is covered by police and officials. A friend from Faridabad tells us how water gets to his slum-area - followed by a description of how water supply expresses social hierarchies in a Gurgaon back-yard. 4) About the Project - Updates on Gurgaon Workers News *** Workers' Film Documentary about Proletarian Life and Struggles in Gurgaon: Help needed! - A workers' film documentary on life and struggles in Gurgaon and wider NCR area is in the making comprising many interviews with workers from different generations and sectors. Given that we either have mothers whose tongues did not make use of Hindi or English language or that we do not have regular access to computers we want to ask you for help with translating the Hindi-spoken words into English subtitles. We started with the rough work, but need help with the subtleties. If you want to give us a hand, please contact us! *** Glossary - Updated version of the Glossary: things that you always wanted to know, but could never be bothered to google. Now even in alphabetical order. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 14:40:16 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:40:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] XRCVC-Tech Mahindra Foundation Scholarship for Visually Impaired Students Message-ID: Find details on the XRCVC-Tech Mahindra Foundation Scholarship for visually impaired students, here: http://bit.ly/mBBgq From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 18:10:05 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:10:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [GJM] PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO YOUR LIST - ABSOLUTELY VITAL ! Food Safety Modernization Act (HR 875): Criminalization of Organic Farms] In-Reply-To: <4A5F3AC5.5040508@gn.apc.org> References: <4A5F3AC5.5040508@gn.apc.org> Message-ID: <1f9180970907200540kc1ed8a0qd8703851dac742e6@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: EcoTort Date: Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 8:05 PM Subject: [GJM] PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO YOUR LIST - ABSOLUTELY VITAL ! Food Safety Modernization Act (HR 875): Criminalization of Organic Farms] To: MONSANTO ARE TRYING TO MAKE ORGANIC FARMING CRIMINAL ! ! ! WE HAVE TO STOP THEM ! http://www.voteronpaul.com/newsDetail.php?Food-Safety-Modernization-Act-HR-875-Criminalization-of-Organic-Farms-222 I truly apologise to you if you don't want emails from me, some people have been complaining to my service provider about "spam".... PLEASE TELL *ME* if you don't want to receive emails from EcoTort ! _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 20 18:34:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:04:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Someone should forward this to Nandan Nilekani :) Message-ID: <65be9bf40907200604i759fd099wfd90fb7bfcfada1a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.sathyamurthy.com/2009/07/20/someone-should-forward-this-to-nandan-nilekani/ CUSTOMER CARE IN 2050 Operator : “Thank you for calling Pizza Galaxy Kholi . May I have your…” Customer: “Hello, can I order..” Operator : “Can I have your Unique ID Number, Sir?” Customer: “It’s eh…, hold…….. ..on….. .889861356102049 998-45-54610″ Operator : “OK… you’re… Mr Singh.. Your home number is 4094! 2366, your office 76452302 and your mobile is 0142662566. Where would you want your order to be delivered sir? Home, office or the parking of Spencer Shopping Mall on Anna Salai formerly known as Mount Road from where you are right now calling us using your mobile? Customer: “Home! How did you get all my phone numbers? Operator : “We are connected to the system Sir” Customer: “May I order your Seafood Pizza…” Operator : “That’s not a good idea Sir” Customer: “How come?” Operator : “According to your medical records, you have high blood pressure and even higher cholesterol level Sir” Customer: “What?… What do you recommend then?” Operator : “Try our Low Fat Hokkien Mee Pizza. You’ll like it” Customer: “How do you know for sure?” Operator : “You borrowed a book entitled “Popular Hokkien Dishes” from the National Library last week Sir” Customer: “OK I give up…. Give me three family size ones then, how much will that cost?” Operator : “That should be enough for your family of 10, Sir. The total is Rs 2249.99″ Customer: “Can I pay by! credit card?” Operator : “I’m afraid you have to pay us cash, Sir. Your credit card is over the limit and you owe your bank Rs10,720.55 since October last year. That’s not including the late payment charges on your housing loan, Sir.” Customer: “I guess I have to run to the neighbourhood ATM and withdraw some cash before your guy arrives” Operator : “You can’t Sir. Based on the records, you’ve reached your daily limit on machine withdrawal today” Customer: “Never mind just send the pizzas, I’ll have the cash ready. How long is it gonna take anyway?” Operator : “About 30 minutes Sir, but if you can’t wait you can always come and collect it on your scooter.. .” Customer: ” What!” Operator : “According to the details in system, you own a Lambretta 1969 Vintage Scooter,…registration number USE 8999…” Customer: ” ????” Operator : “Is there anything else Sir?” Customer: “Nothing… by the way… aren’t you giving me that 3 free bottles of cola as advertised?” Operator : “We normally would Sir, but based on your records you’re also diabetic…. …” Customer: #$$^%&$@$%^…beeep Operator : “Better watch your language Sir. Remember on 11th Nov 1986 you were convicted for using abusive language on a policeman who stopped you for driving through a one way, in fact you were driving a 1973 Ambassador bearing registeration number UTD 4267……. Customer: May I know the number of Mr. Nandan Nilekani? We have got more than our parents bargained for! From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Mon Jul 20 19:32:54 2009 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:32:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <780012.72684.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> let me give my inputs 1) you have said "Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan"   -- not because he believed in 'secularism' but because he wanted to establish his supremacy over kashmir. he wanted to be a 'sultan' of kashmir.   2) you said, "Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. "   - gandhi failed because he could not control ' violent muslims'  as the latter had never  accepted gandhi as their leader. sheikh succeeded in kashmir because hindus were in minority  there.  (this statement is self explainatory)   3) govt. of india has pumped in billions of rupees in last 62 years for the welfare of kashmiris but if the latter could not get the benefits of that then its only because of extremely corrupt abdulla family. in the short tenure of jagmohan in 1986 people (irrespective of their religion) were very happy. unfortunately in 1989 when he took over again as a governor of  kashmir, our 'secular' leaders sitting in delhi did not allow him to work.    4) you have said, "A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom"   -if it is so, then why did kashmiri pandits/sikhs or buddhists not join this agitation?   if india really gives freedom to kashmir then, from osama bin laden to yasin malik  there is a big list of terrorists who would like to 'govern' the state. will common kashmiris be happy under them?    last but not least, there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again and create many more pakistans?   vedavati --- On Sun, 19/7/09, Inder Salim wrote: From: Inder Salim Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination To: "reader-list" Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 3:58 PM Dear All KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much as it was in 1947. Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations.  But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports fall in, they are already on Indian diet. The question, now is that who are these unfortunate  people who failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said on their role to divide Kashmir. Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous  other political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost of thousands of kashmiris dead,  for a cause or without a cause. It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. There are many reasons why a particular community turns fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can  white wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the issue. In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be  by looking into their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a sports. It is a big responsibility. With love and regards is On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of the current role of the Pakistan army. > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised criminal mafia which has full support of the United States administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > >> From: subhrodip sengupta >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM >> Dear Rahul, >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. >> Regards, >> Subhrodip. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rahul Asthana >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; >> subhrodip sengupta >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self >> Determination >> >> >> >> Dear Subhrodip, >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people >> like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. >> Thanks >> Rahul >> >> >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >> wrote: >> >> > From: subhrodip sengupta >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self >> Determination >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM >> > Dear all, >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land >> for >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of >> inheritance >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of >> > >> it......................................................................................................... >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian >> or by >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to >> > ask..................................... >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent >> of our >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer >> Gori >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire >> racism. >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or >> Bg >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive >> and >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings >> suggests it >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army >> appearing >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army >> forces, >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of >> > independance, from the state which doent want to >> repeal the >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political >> struggle, >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace >> option not >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be >> much >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's >> Son of >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain >> > >> kashmir..................................................................... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Rahul Asthana >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case >> for >> > self-determination >> > >> > >> > Hi Junaid, >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land >> and >> > a constituent state of a democracy. >> > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are >> defining >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based >> on >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? >> > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying >> nation in >> > Kashmir or do >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? >> > >> > Thanks >> > Rahul >> > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid >> > wrote: >> > >> > > From: Junaid >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no >> case for >> > self-determination >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation >> > > fighting for its liberation. National >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic >> principle >> > of >> > > self-determination.. This principle of >> > self-determination >> > > does not >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other >> > > multinational document. >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN >> > Charter >> > > emerged from >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is >> the >> > > foundational >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the >> bed >> > rock >> > > for peace. >> > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely >> > accepted. >> > > And it proved >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization >> > movement, >> > > which >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial >> > struggles in >> > > the Indian >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the >> betrayal of >> > > anti-colonial >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz >> said >> > "Yeh >> > > woh seher to >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor >> spoke >> > when he >> > > lamented >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few >> doors..."). >> > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the >> same >> > for >> > > ever, but >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each >> other >> > before >> > > realising >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of >> > struggle >> > > and sacrifice >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. >> > Colonisers >> > > tried every >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. >> > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" >> > > self-determination or >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At >> least >> > it is >> > > not >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian >> > nationalists" >> > > think they >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that >> Indian >> > > nationalists for >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious >> > faith--and in >> > > fact is a >> > > religious faith--would come around and change >> their >> > opinion >> > > on it-- >> > > least through discussion. What is important is >> that >> > > Kashmiris think >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom >> and >> > > independence. It >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of >> > struggle--first >> > > against Dogra >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case >> in >> > the >> > > eyes of >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. >> > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles >> > rolling >> > > down the >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more >> > people, >> > > young people, >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations >> > before >> > > them) feel >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More >> and >> > more >> > > they >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as >> running >> > counter >> > > to any >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of >> India. >> > The >> > > idea of >> > > India is understood as something that stops them >> from >> > > being >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly >> unacceptable >> > to >> > > them. The idea >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since >> Sheikh >> > > Abdullah's Naya >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence >> when it >> > > couples itself >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. >> > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national >> > solidarity >> > > based on >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of >> feeding >> > on >> > > the notions >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of >> "the >> > chosen >> > > people". >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", >> > however, >> > > Kashmiris too >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the >> > long-run >> > > does not have >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. >> > Islamophobia >> > > cannot hold. >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over >> the >> > world >> > > which >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as >> enemies. >> > > Anti-Hindu >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not >> only a >> > > result of the >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of >> how >> > the >> > > Indian >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. >> For >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, >> and >> > then >> > > the transfer >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes >> the >> > > imperial-territorial >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There >> are >> > no >> > > doctrinal >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims >> can't sit >> > and >> > > live >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No >> one >> > in >> > > Srinagar >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on >> the >> > red >> > > fort. >> > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A >> world >> > which >> > > is utterly >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third >> World--which by >> > > mimicking the >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and >> > behaves >> > > like former >> > > colonial countries. >> > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be >> given >> > on a >> > > platter. It >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation >> > struggle by >> > > Kashmiris. >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much >> but >> > there >> > > is very >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so >> will >> > > oppression. But >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. >> India >> > will >> > > leave Kashmir >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it >> doesn't >> > > happen at the >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire >> > subcontinent. >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the >> > > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > >> > >> >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> >> >>       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 19:36:17 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:36:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Press clubs in a conflict zone in Assam Message-ID: <341380d00907200706t74681afav825556f3a9d8af0c@mail.gmail.com> Press clubs in a conflict zone (from: http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/story.php?storyid=3992&mod=1&pg=1§ionId=2&valid=true ) The Sonitpur district correspondent of *The Assam Tribune*, Shambhu Boro was picked up by the Officer in Charge (OC) of Tezpur Sadar Thana in the evening at around 5 pm on June 22, 2009. Boro was asked to name his friends. And then asked him if a particular National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)leader was his childhood friend. Boro answered that he cannot be blamed if his childhood friend has joined an insurgent group. He was questioned and mentally harassed for a few hours. It was then that the members of the Sonitpur Press Club stepped in. They too confronted the OC and questioned him as to on what basis did he pick up their fellow journalist. The OC admitted his mistake and apologized and let him go. Boro feels that being a member of the press club instills a sense of security in the minds of the journalists who otherwise work amidst great odds and risk to life both from the state as well as non-state actors. The district has over 15 press clubs which at local levels try to work for the betterment of the media fraternity in terms of security of the reporters and social awareness programmes. The journalists of Sonitpur Press Club also volunteer and donate blood whenever there is a bomb blast or incident of violence. In another instance, when Subit Kumar Chettri, the Dibrugarh correspondent of the Assamese daily Janambhumi was recently threatened by members of the ceasefire group of United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA for filing a news report against them, he got unprecedented support from the press fraternity. Members of the two press clubs in Dibrugarh town – Dibrugarh Press Club (DPC) and Greater Dibrugarh Press Club (GDPC) raised their voice and demanded an apology and clarification from the pro-talk group of ULFA Pronib Das, a young photojournalist of Dibrugarh is a member of the GDPC whose members comprise of the younger lot. "We have a small office and a library. Its a reassuring feeling that we have an association of our own. We all join hands whenever there is any kind of atrocity against a member of our fraternity," he says. Dibrugarh district itself has around 15 press clubs even in the remote sub-divisions and towns. Manjit Bora, joint secretary of GDPC says, "There is nobody to speak up for the journalists in times of crisis. Sometimes even their own establishment do not support them. Even in normal circumstances, even full-time journalists are low-paid. A press club is a platform which can be used to speak up for the rights of the journalists." Press clubs are prolific decentralized local bodies in Assam having their own Constitution and regulations. Guwahati city, the gateway to Northeast India has a more bustling press club with a wide array of recreational activities and its members range from editors to proof readers. These clubs object to the nomenclature 'Press Club of India' based in Delhi. Nava Thakuria, secretary of Guwahati Press Club (GPC) says, "It should have been Delhi Press Club. We are not affiliated to them." Thakuria reiterates that it is only a recreation club, a space where journalists can unwind and share information and resources. "We render moral support to all other journalist organizations whenever there is any atrocity against a fellow journalist. We are the same people in the journalists association but we do not raise our voice under the GPC banner. They are free to use the infrastructure though," he says. The GPC collaborates with other organizations and organizes events like field visits to neighbouring states and even health camps for journalists. They are also running a media fellowship and a Guest of the month programme and capacity building and intellectual enrichment of journalists. They even ask for waivers in hospital bills, considering the fact that journalists are poorly-paid. Journalists and photographers can also make use of the internet facility in the press club by paying a nominal amount. Most press clubs try to accrue some kind of revenue from their available resources. The Sivasagar Press Club (SPC) located in Sivasagar town in upper Assam is perhaps the richest press club as they have their own market complex and conference hall which yields good revenue for them. They use the money to give financial support to needy and meritorious students, poor patients, organize book fairs, renovate childrens parks. The club which was formed in 1993 have had their brush with conflict though. They organize a quiz contest in memory of Kamala Saikia, a journalist from Sivasagar who was shot dead by ULFA in 1991. They have also instituted cash award for meritorious students in the name of two of their journalist colleagues Alfarid Sazad and Jiten Chutia who were killed in a bomb blasts. Inamul Hazarika, secretary of SPC says, "As journalists, we have to face the brunt of both the state and non-state actors. We need a platform to speak up for our rights and we can work together because we are organized in the form of a press club." The entire district has over 8 press clubs. Press Club, Jorhat is a fairly recent set-up. It was set up in 2000 and they are now constructing their own office building which will have a media cell and a conference hall. Its secretary Ananta Narayan Borthakur feels that even the publishing houses do not speak up for their correspondents reporting from mofussil towns. This is where the vital role of the local press clubs come in – there are three more in the district, at Teok, Titabar and Mariani. Nalbari district in lower Assam was once a ULFA stronghold. The journalists had to face the wrath of the state as well as the non-state actors. Manik Deka, a member of Nalbari Press Club says that there were times during the heyday of ULFA when journalists were directly picked up by the outfit whenever an adverse news item was published. It was a tricky situation for the press club then as they could not inform the district administration. It was then that they made discreet contact with the outfit and negotiated an amicable settlement. The outfit too gave importance when the matter was put up by the press club. The district has over 25 press clubs. Another sensitive district Bongaigaon which was once a stronghold of the Bodo militants has been playing the role of a shield for journalists. Ranjit Bora, member of Greater Bongaigaon Press Club says that even while doing a development story, if they point out some corrupt practices, they might unknowingly antagonize some stakeholder. "Individual journalists are easy targets, specially when various elements are at contradiction with each other. In such troubled areas, press clubs emerge as an organized platform and works as a cushion," he adds. Its twin district Kokrajhar is even more perilous for journalists. Here there are two kinds of terror -- various factions of the erstwhile Bodo Liberation Tigers (BLT) and NDFB are at loggerheads with each other and all these groups unleash a reign of terror on the common people. The district has witnessed incidents like burning and banning of newspapers by opposing groups. There has been times when the entire bundle of newspapers were picked up from the market by the aggrieved groups. It was in such times that the press club rose in unison and even had a "Stop the Pen" campaign to teach these groups a lesson. Moloya Deka, president of Kokrajhar Press Club says that now the various groups have learnt to retaliate against mediapersons in a democratic and legal manner. "Now instead of using force they hold press meets and issue clarifications. All credit goes to the united efforts of the press club," she says. For Khrwmshar Basumatary, executive president of Barama press club in Baksa district, a press club is an essential tool to combat adverse forces. He himself was victimized by members of a militant outfit for publishing a news item. He was beaten up by 10-12 armed cadres in full public view and his clothes torn up. "Now, we all go in a group as members of the press club," he says. The president of Barama press club Bipuljyoti Rabha was once picked up by the police at 2:30 am after he published a news item on a public meeting protesting the killing of a youth. "We need to be united to speak up for the rights of the journalists. It is ironical that we journalists speak up for everyone but there is nobody to fight for us," he says. In a conflict-torn state like Assam, a journalist's role is like walking a tightrope. In such a difficult situation it is not surprising that there has been a prolific growth of press clubs in remote and inaccessible areas. It is a united effort by journalists at the local levels to keep the fourth pillar of democracy alive. ENDS From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 19:41:05 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:41:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <780012.72684.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> <780012.72684.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907200711u1c066225naa92a17e056e00c0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Vedavati jee, "there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again and create many more pakistans?" By saying this you are dividing this nation furthermore. I think it is the way you look at one religion, which is problemmatic. If there are violent muslims, there are violent hindus too. when they start creating ruckus in ayodhya, gujarat, they are dividing the country furthermore. what is your input to that? -regards anupam On 7/20/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > let me give my inputs > 1) you have said > "Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with > Pakistan" > > -- not because he believed in 'secularism' but because he wanted to > establish his supremacy over kashmir. he wanted to be a 'sultan' of kashmir. > > 2) you said, > "Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the large > scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. " > > - gandhi failed because he could not control ' violent muslims' > as the latter had never accepted gandhi as their leader. > sheikh succeeded in kashmir because hindus were in minority there. (this > statement is self explainatory) > > 3) govt. of india has pumped in billions of rupees in last 62 years for the > welfare of kashmiris but if the latter could not get the benefits of that > then its only because of extremely corrupt abdulla family. > in the short tenure of jagmohan in 1986 people (irrespective of their > religion) were very happy. unfortunately in 1989 when he took over again as > a governor of kashmir, our 'secular' leaders sitting in delhi did not allow > him to work. > > 4) you have said, > "A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is > compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof > top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom" > > -if it is so, then why did kashmiri pandits/sikhs or buddhists not join > this agitation? > > if india really gives freedom to kashmir then, from osama bin laden to > yasin malik there is a big list of terrorists who would like to 'govern' > the state. > will common kashmiris be happy under them? > > last but not least, > there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority > do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again > and create many more pakistans? > > vedavati > --- On Sun, 19/7/09, Inder Salim wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "reader-list" > Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 3:58 PM > > > Dear All > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much > as it was in 1947. > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi > failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > The question, now is that who are these unfortunate people who > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the > other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous other > political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or without a cause. > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. > > There are many reasons why a particular community turns > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ > tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For > example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can white > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the > issue. > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to > talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be by looking into > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > With love and regards > is > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised > criminal mafia which has full support of the United States > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > wrote: > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > >> Dear Rahul, > >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > >> Regards, > >> Subhrodip. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: Rahul Asthana > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > >> subhrodip sengupta > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > >> Determination > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Subhrodip, > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending > >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people > >> like Junaid who are not really worried about how many > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should > >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. > >> Thanks > >> Rahul > >> > >> > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > >> wrote: > >> > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > >> Determination > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > >> > Dear all, > >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land > >> for > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of > >> inheritance > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > >> > > >> > it......................................................................................................... > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian > >> or by > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > >> > ask..................................... > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent > >> of our > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer > >> Gori > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire > >> racism. > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or > >> Bg > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive > >> and > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings > >> suggests it > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army > >> appearing > >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army > >> forces, > >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > >> > independance, from the state which doent want to > >> repeal the > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political > >> struggle, > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace > >> option not > >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be > >> much > >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's > >> Son of > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > >> > > >> > kashmir..................................................................... > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > >> > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case > >> for > >> > self-determination > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi Junaid, > >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land > >> and > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > >> > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are > >> defining > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based > >> on > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > >> > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying > >> nation in > >> > Kashmir or do > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Rahul > >> > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > From: Junaid > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no > >> case for > >> > self-determination > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > >> > > fighting for its liberation. National > >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic > >> principle > >> > of > >> > > self-determination.. This principle of > >> > self-determination > >> > > does not > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > >> > > multinational document. > >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > >> > Charter > >> > > emerged from > >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is > >> the > >> > > foundational > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the > >> bed > >> > rock > >> > > for peace. > >> > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > >> > accepted. > >> > > And it proved > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > >> > movement, > >> > > which > >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > >> > struggles in > >> > > the Indian > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the > >> betrayal of > >> > > anti-colonial > >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz > >> said > >> > "Yeh > >> > > woh seher to > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor > >> spoke > >> > when he > >> > > lamented > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few > >> doors..."). > >> > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the > >> same > >> > for > >> > > ever, but > >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each > >> other > >> > before > >> > > realising > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > >> > struggle > >> > > and sacrifice > >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > >> > Colonisers > >> > > tried every > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > >> > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > >> > > self-determination or > >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At > >> least > >> > it is > >> > > not > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > >> > nationalists" > >> > > think they > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that > >> Indian > >> > > nationalists for > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > >> > faith--and in > >> > > fact is a > >> > > religious faith--would come around and change > >> their > >> > opinion > >> > > on it-- > >> > > least through discussion. What is important is > >> that > >> > > Kashmiris think > >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom > >> and > >> > > independence. It > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > >> > struggle--first > >> > > against Dogra > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case > >> in > >> > the > >> > > eyes of > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > >> > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > >> > rolling > >> > > down the > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > >> > people, > >> > > young people, > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > >> > before > >> > > them) feel > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More > >> and > >> > more > >> > > they > >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as > >> running > >> > counter > >> > > to any > >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of > >> India. > >> > The > >> > > idea of > >> > > India is understood as something that stops them > >> from > >> > > being > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly > >> unacceptable > >> > to > >> > > them. The idea > >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since > >> Sheikh > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence > >> when it > >> > > couples itself > >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > >> > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > >> > solidarity > >> > > based on > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of > >> feeding > >> > on > >> > > the notions > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of > >> "the > >> > chosen > >> > > people". > >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > >> > however, > >> > > Kashmiris too > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > >> > long-run > >> > > does not have > >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > >> > Islamophobia > >> > > cannot hold. > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over > >> the > >> > world > >> > > which > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as > >> enemies. > >> > > Anti-Hindu > >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not > >> only a > >> > > result of the > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of > >> how > >> > the > >> > > Indian > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. > >> For > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, > >> and > >> > then > >> > > the transfer > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes > >> the > >> > > imperial-territorial > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There > >> are > >> > no > >> > > doctrinal > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims > >> can't sit > >> > and > >> > > live > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No > >> one > >> > in > >> > > Srinagar > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on > >> the > >> > red > >> > > fort. > >> > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A > >> world > >> > which > >> > > is utterly > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third > >> World--which by > >> > > mimicking the > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > >> > behaves > >> > > like former > >> > > colonial countries. > >> > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be > >> given > >> > on a > >> > > platter. It > >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > >> > struggle by > >> > > Kashmiris. > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much > >> but > >> > there > >> > > is very > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so > >> will > >> > > oppression. But > >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. > >> India > >> > will > >> > > leave Kashmir > >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it > >> doesn't > >> > > happen at the > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > >> > subcontinent. > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >> the > >> > > city. > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> > Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > >> > >> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Jul 20 20:29:24 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:29:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Free Kian Tajbaksh Message-ID: Dear all, Many people on this list are following events in Iran closely. Here is some more sad news. Dr. Kian Tajbaksh a well known Iranian-American scholar living in Tehran, who has been arrested. His circumstances are currently unknown. He joins the ranks of many Iranians and others who are currently being detained in Iran, as the crisis in Iran deepens. (I am pasting relevant information from a website set up to campaign for his release). Please do take time to sign this petition, at http://www.freekian09.org/sign-the-petition/ and forward this information as widely as possible, regards, Shuddha ------------------- At 9:00pm Tehran time on July 9, 2009, Iranian agents arrested Dr. Tajbakhsh at his home in Tehran. Two people who identified themselves as Iranian security officials arrived at his residence in Tehran late Thursday. The officials questioned him and his wife and searched the residence for three hours, before taking him away along with two computers and other items. We have no information about where Dr. Tajbakhsh was taken. An American citizen, Dr. Tajbakhsh is a leading scholar with an international reputation. He taught at the New School in New York City for seven years and remains a senior research fellow there. He has published two widely praised books, The Promise of the City: Space, Identity and Politics in Contemporary Social Thought (University of California Press, 2001) and Social Capital: Trust, Democracy and Development (published in Persian, 2005). He has published over 20 articles in leading scholarly journals and delivered lectures at major international conferences on urban planning, public health, and municipal government. Dr. Tajbakhsh has had a long affiliation with the Social Science Research Council (SSRC), the leading academic organization for social scientists in the United States. He has served as a Steering Committee Member for the SSRC’s Middle East and North Africa Program and contributed in significant ways to the SSRC’s academic projects. Throughout the course of his career, Dr. Tajbakhsh has earned a reputation as a distinguished and respected scholar throughout the Middle East, South Asia, Europe, and the United States. In addition to his academic career, Dr. Tajbakhsh has worked as a consultant for several organizations including Iran’s Municipalities Organization, the Social Security Organization, and international organizations such as the World Bank, the Open Society Institute and the Dutch Association of Municipalities. He spent four months in Evin prison in 2007 after being falsely accused along with three other Iranian-Americans of endangering national security. Following his release he ended his association with the Open Society Institute. Recently he has been researching and writing several books and spending time with his family and first child, born in 2007. It is difficult to imagine why a brilliant scholar and friend like Dr. Tajbakhsh would be targeted by the Iranian regime. We strongly appeal for your help in revoking the decision to detain him. From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Mon Jul 20 20:55:56 2009 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:55:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <341380d00907200711u1c066225naa92a17e056e00c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <243354.16944.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> my inputs are,   by supporting socalled 'kashmir cause' you seculars are supporting terrorists.   secondly its an unfortunate fact that whenever and whereever muslims were in majority hindus have suffered i am sure you will equate those acts of violent muslims with gujrat / ayodhya etc. ayodhya movement was not against muslims, but definitely against babri structure which was a mark of insult. none of the countries except india has ever taken pride for invader's deeds. its a historical  fact that muslim invaders have pulled down many temples and built masjids on them. they have done it in kashmir too in the recent past.   third thing, gujrat - the most favourite topic of seculars gujrat happened because godhra happened. its a fact again!   by the way what about other points (like secular abdullahs, non-muslim kashmiris etc.)  which i have mentioned in my mail and you have conviniently ignored ?  i would like to know your views on them.   vedavati --- On Mon, 20/7/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination To: "sarai list" Date: Monday, 20 July, 2009, 10:11 PM Dear Vedavati jee, "there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again and create many more pakistans?" By saying this you are dividing this nation furthermore. I think it is the way you look at one religion, which is problemmatic. If there are violent muslims, there are violent hindus too. when they start creating ruckus in ayodhya, gujarat, they are dividing the country furthermore. what is your input to that? -regards anupam On 7/20/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > let me give my inputs > 1) you have said > "Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with > Pakistan" > > -- not because he believed in 'secularism' but because he wanted to > establish his supremacy over kashmir. he wanted to be a 'sultan' of kashmir. > > 2) you said, > "Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the large > scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. " > > - gandhi failed because he could not control ' violent muslims' > as the latter had never  accepted gandhi as their leader. > sheikh succeeded in kashmir because hindus were in minority  there.  (this > statement is self explainatory) > > 3) govt. of india has pumped in billions of rupees in last 62 years for the > welfare of kashmiris but if the latter could not get the benefits of that > then its only because of extremely corrupt abdulla family. > in the short tenure of jagmohan in 1986 people (irrespective of their > religion) were very happy. unfortunately in 1989 when he took over again as > a governor of  kashmir, our 'secular' leaders sitting in delhi did not allow > him to work. > > 4) you have said, > "A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is > compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof > top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom" > > -if it is so, then why did kashmiri pandits/sikhs or buddhists not join > this agitation? > > if india really gives freedom to kashmir then, from osama bin laden to > yasin malik  there is a big list of terrorists who would like to 'govern' > the state. > will common kashmiris be happy under them? > > last but not least, > there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority > do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again > and create many more pakistans? > > vedavati > --- On Sun, 19/7/09, Inder Salim wrote: > > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "reader-list" > Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 3:58 PM > > > Dear All > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much > as it was in 1947. > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi > failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > The question, now is that who are these unfortunate  people who > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the > other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous  other > political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost > of thousands of kashmiris dead,  for a cause or without a cause. > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. > > There are many reasons why a particular community turns > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ > tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For > example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can  white > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the > issue. > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to > talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be  by looking into > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > With love and regards > is > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised > criminal mafia which has full support of the United States > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > wrote: > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > >> Dear Rahul, > >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > >> Regards, > >> Subhrodip. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: Rahul Asthana > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > >> subhrodip sengupta > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > >> Determination > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Subhrodip, > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending > >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people > >> like  Junaid who are not really worried about how many > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should > >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. > >> Thanks > >> Rahul > >> > >> > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > >> wrote: > >> > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > >> Determination > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > >> > Dear all, > >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land > >> for > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of > >> inheritance > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > >> > > >> > it.......................................................................................................... > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian > >> or by > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > >> > ask..................................... > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent > >> of our > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer > >> Gori > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire > >> racism. > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or > >> Bg > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive > >> and > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings > >> suggests it > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army > >> appearing > >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army > >> forces, > >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > >> > independance, from the state which doent want to > >> repeal the > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political > >> struggle, > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace > >> option not > >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be > >> much > >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's > >> Son of > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > >> > > >> > kashmir...................................................................... > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > >> > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case > >> for > >> > self-determination > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi Junaid, > >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land > >> and > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > >> > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are > >> defining > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based > >> on > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > >> > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying > >> nation in > >> > Kashmir or do > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Rahul > >> > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > From: Junaid > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no > >> case for > >> > self-determination > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > >> > > fighting for its liberation. National > >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic > >> principle > >> > of > >> > > self-determination.. This principle of > >> > self-determination > >> > > does not > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > >> > > multinational document. > >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > >> > Charter > >> > > emerged from > >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is > >> the > >> > > foundational > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the > >> bed > >> > rock > >> > > for peace. > >> > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > >> > accepted. > >> > > And it proved > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > >> > movement, > >> > > which > >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > >> > struggles in > >> > > the Indian > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the > >> betrayal of > >> > > anti-colonial > >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz > >> said > >> > "Yeh > >> > > woh seher to > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor > >> spoke > >> > when he > >> > > lamented > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few > >> doors..."). > >> > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the > >> same > >> > for > >> > > ever, but > >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each > >> other > >> > before > >> > > realising > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > >> > struggle > >> > > and sacrifice > >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > >> > Colonisers > >> > > tried every > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > >> > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > >> > > self-determination or > >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At > >> least > >> > it is > >> > > not > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > >> > nationalists" > >> > > think they > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that > >> Indian > >> > > nationalists for > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > >> > faith--and in > >> > > fact is a > >> > > religious faith--would come around and change > >> their > >> > opinion > >> > > on it-- > >> > > least through discussion. What is important is > >> that > >> > > Kashmiris think > >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom > >> and > >> > > independence. It > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > >> > struggle--first > >> > > against Dogra > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case > >> in > >> > the > >> > > eyes of > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > >> > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > >> > rolling > >> > > down the > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > >> > people, > >> > > young people, > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > >> > before > >> > > them) feel > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More > >> and > >> > more > >> > > they > >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as > >> running > >> > counter > >> > > to any > >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of > >> India. > >> > The > >> > > idea of > >> > > India is understood as something that stops them > >> from > >> > > being > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly > >> unacceptable > >> > to > >> > > them. The idea > >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since > >> Sheikh > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence > >> when it > >> > > couples itself > >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > >> > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > >> > solidarity > >> > > based on > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of > >> feeding > >> > on > >> > > the notions > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of > >> "the > >> > chosen > >> > > people". > >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > >> > however, > >> > > Kashmiris too > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > >> > long-run > >> > > does not have > >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > >> > Islamophobia > >> > > cannot hold. > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over > >> the > >> > world > >> > > which > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as > >> enemies. > >> > > Anti-Hindu > >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not > >> only a > >> > > result of the > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of > >> how > >> > the > >> > > Indian > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. > >> For > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, > >> and > >> > then > >> > > the transfer > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes > >> the > >> > > imperial-territorial > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There > >> are > >> > no > >> > > doctrinal > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims > >> can't sit > >> > and > >> > > live > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No > >> one > >> > in > >> > > Srinagar > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on > >> the > >> > red > >> > > fort. > >> > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A > >> world > >> > which > >> > > is utterly > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third > >> World--which by > >> > > mimicking the > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > >> > behaves > >> > > like former > >> > > colonial countries. > >> > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be > >> given > >> > on a > >> > > platter. It > >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > >> > struggle by > >> > > Kashmiris. > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much > >> but > >> > there > >> > > is very > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so > >> will > >> > > oppression. But > >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. > >> India > >> > will > >> > > leave Kashmir > >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it > >> doesn't > >> > > happen at the > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > >> > subcontinent. > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >> the > >> > > city. > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > >> > >>       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > >      See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 21:30:22 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:30:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <243354.16944.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00907200711u1c066225naa92a17e056e00c0@mail.gmail.com> <243354.16944.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907200900w19636801w262ddfc6ca241e9c@mail.gmail.com> dear vedavati jee, chola dynasty went across the seas, built temples across south east asia in cambodia, in sumatra. infact the straits of hormuz was once controlled by the cholas and a large chunk of tamilians have been living in malaysia (peacefully or not so peacefully). so should we call that as some kind of invasion? how about several burmese tribes living in the indian territory in the north eastern states? do u want to call them invaders? and moreover aryans were the first invaders if i follow your discourse on history of invasions. so please please please, here's a request to stop labelling communities which you dont belong to in such a light. it doesnt mean a whole lot of people can be labelled in such a way. we really do not know who is a terrorist and who is genuinely asking for their rights. -anupam On 7/20/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > my inputs are, > > by supporting socalled 'kashmir cause' you seculars are supporting > terrorists. > > secondly its an unfortunate fact that whenever and whereever muslims were > in majority hindus have suffered > i am sure you will equate those acts of violent muslims with gujrat / > ayodhya etc. > ayodhya movement was not against muslims, but definitely against babri > structure which was a mark of insult. none of the countries except india has > ever taken pride for invader's deeds. > its a historical fact that muslim invaders have pulled down many temples > and built masjids on them. they have done it in kashmir too in the recent > past. > third thing, > gujrat - the most favourite topic of seculars > gujrat happened because godhra happened. its a fact again! > > by the way what about other points (like secular abdullahs, non-muslim > kashmiris etc.) which i have mentioned in my mail and you have conviniently > ignored ? > i would like to know your views on them. > > vedavati > > --- On *Mon, 20/7/09, anupam chakravartty * wrote: > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, 20 July, 2009, 10:11 PM > > Dear Vedavati jee, > > "there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority > do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again > and create many more pakistans?" > > By saying this you are dividing this nation furthermore. I think it is the > way you look at one religion, which is problemmatic. If there are violent > muslims, there are violent hindus too. when they start creating ruckus in > ayodhya, gujarat, they are dividing the country furthermore. what is your > input to that? > > -regards anupam > > > On 7/20/09, Vedavati Jogi > > wrote: > > > > let me give my inputs > > 1) you have said > > "Abdullah who stood like a wall between the merger of Kashmir with > > Pakistan" > > > > -- not because he believed in 'secularism' but because he wanted to > > establish his supremacy over kashmir. he wanted to be a 'sultan' of > kashmir. > > > > 2) you said, > > "Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi failed to curb the > large > > scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in Kashmir. " > > > > - gandhi failed because he could not control ' violent muslims' > > as the latter had never accepted gandhi as their leader. > > sheikh succeeded in kashmir because hindus were in minority there. > (this > > statement is self explainatory) > > > > 3) govt. of india has pumped in billions of rupees in last 62 years for > the > > welfare of kashmiris but if the latter could not get the benefits of that > > then its only because of extremely corrupt abdulla family. > > in the short tenure of jagmohan in 1986 people (irrespective of their > > religion) were very happy. unfortunately in 1989 when he took over again > as > > a governor of kashmir, our 'secular' leaders sitting in delhi did not > allow > > him to work. > > > > 4) you have said, > > "A simple anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is > > compounded by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof > > top. Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom" > > > > -if it is so, then why did kashmiri pandits/sikhs or buddhists not join > > this agitation? > > > > if india really gives freedom to kashmir then, from osama bin laden to > > yasin malik there is a big list of terrorists who would like to 'govern' > > the state. > > will common kashmiris be happy under them? > > > > last but not least, > > there are many pockets in india where muslims are in majority > > do you think we should allow them to partition this country again & again > > and create many more pakistans? > > > > vedavati > > --- On Sun, 19/7/09, Inder Salim > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Inder Salim > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > > To: "reader-list" > > > > Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 3:58 PM > > > > > > Dear All > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much > > as it was in 1947. > > > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > > > The question, now is that who are these unfortunate people who > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said > > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous other > > political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost > > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or without a cause. > > > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. > > > > There are many reasons why a particular community turns > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. > > > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can white > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the > > issue. > > > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to > > talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be by looking into > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a > > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > > > With love and regards > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana > > > > wrote: > > > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can > ensure > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because > its > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution > India > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light > of > > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United States > > administration..Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its > nothing > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in > power,one > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my > opinion > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > > >> Dear Rahul, > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > > >> Regards, > > >> Subhrodip. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> From: Rahul Asthana > > > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. > >; > > >> subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > > >> Determination > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Dear Subhrodip, > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people > > >> like Junaid who are not really worried about how many > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should > > >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. > > >> Thanks > > >> Rahul > > >> > > >> > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > > >> Determination > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > > >> > Dear all, > > >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land > > >> for > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of > > >> inheritance > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > > >> > > > >> > > > it........................................................................................................... > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian > > >> or by > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > > >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > > >> > ask...................................... > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent > > >> of our > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer > > >> Gori > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire > > >> racism. > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or > > >> Bg > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive > > >> and > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings > > >> suggests it > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army > > >> appearing > > >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army > > >> forces, > > >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > > >> > independance, from the state which doent want to > > >> repeal the > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political > > >> struggle, > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace > > >> option not > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be > > >> much > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's > > >> Son of > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > > >> > > > >> > > > kashmir...................................................................... > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ________________________________ > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net > ; > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > >> > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case > > >> for > > >> > self-determination > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Hi Junaid, > > >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land > > >> and > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > > >> > > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are > > >> defining > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based > > >> on > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > > >> > > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying > > >> nation in > > >> > Kashmir or do > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > Rahul > > >> > > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > From: Junaid > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no > > >> case for > > >> > self-determination > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > >> > > fighting for its liberation. National > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic > > >> principle > > >> > of > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle of > > >> > self-determination > > >> > > does not > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > > >> > > multinational document. > > >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > > >> > Charter > > >> > > emerged from > > >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is > > >> the > > >> > > foundational > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the > > >> bed > > >> > rock > > >> > > for peace. > > >> > > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > > >> > accepted. > > >> > > And it proved > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > > >> > movement, > > >> > > which > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > > >> > struggles in > > >> > > the Indian > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the > > >> betrayal of > > >> > > anti-colonial > > >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz > > >> said > > >> > "Yeh > > >> > > woh seher to > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor > > >> spoke > > >> > when he > > >> > > lamented > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few > > >> doors..."). > > >> > > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the > > >> same > > >> > for > > >> > > ever, but > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each > > >> other > > >> > before > > >> > > realising > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > > >> > struggle > > >> > > and sacrifice > > >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > > >> > Colonisers > > >> > > tried every > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > > >> > > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > > >> > > self-determination or > > >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At > > >> least > > >> > it is > > >> > > not > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > > >> > nationalists" > > >> > > think they > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that > > >> Indian > > >> > > nationalists for > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > > >> > faith--and in > > >> > > fact is a > > >> > > religious faith--would come around and change > > >> their > > >> > opinion > > >> > > on it-- > > >> > > least through discussion. What is important is > > >> that > > >> > > Kashmiris think > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom > > >> and > > >> > > independence. It > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > > >> > struggle--first > > >> > > against Dogra > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case > > >> in > > >> > the > > >> > > eyes of > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > > >> > > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > > >> > rolling > > >> > > down the > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > > >> > people, > > >> > > young people, > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > > >> > before > > >> > > them) feel > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More > > >> and > > >> > more > > >> > > they > > >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as > > >> running > > >> > counter > > >> > > to any > > >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of > > >> India. > > >> > The > > >> > > idea of > > >> > > India is understood as something that stops them > > >> from > > >> > > being > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly > > >> unacceptable > > >> > to > > >> > > them. The idea > > >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since > > >> Sheikh > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence > > >> when it > > >> > > couples itself > > >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > > >> > > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > > >> > solidarity > > >> > > based on > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of > > >> feeding > > >> > on > > >> > > the notions > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of > > >> "the > > >> > chosen > > >> > > people". > > >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > > >> > however, > > >> > > Kashmiris too > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > > >> > long-run > > >> > > does not have > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > > >> > Islamophobia > > >> > > cannot hold. > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over > > >> the > > >> > world > > >> > > which > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as > > >> enemies. > > >> > > Anti-Hindu > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not > > >> only a > > >> > > result of the > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of > > >> how > > >> > the > > >> > > Indian > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. > > >> For > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, > > >> and > > >> > then > > >> > > the transfer > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes > > >> the > > >> > > imperial-territorial > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There > > >> are > > >> > no > > >> > > doctrinal > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims > > >> can't sit > > >> > and > > >> > > live > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No > > >> one > > >> > in > > >> > > Srinagar > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on > > >> the > > >> > red > > >> > > fort. > > >> > > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A > > >> world > > >> > which > > >> > > is utterly > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third > > >> World--which by > > >> > > mimicking the > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > > >> > behaves > > >> > > like former > > >> > > colonial countries. > > >> > > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be > > >> given > > >> > on a > > >> > > platter. It > > >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > > >> > struggle by > > >> > > Kashmiris. > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much > > >> but > > >> > there > > >> > > is very > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so > > >> will > > >> > > oppression. But > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. > > >> India > > >> > will > > >> > > leave Kashmir > > >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it > > >> doesn't > > >> > > happen at the > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > > >> > subcontinent. > > >> > > _________________________________________ > > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > >> the > > >> > > city. > > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > > List archive: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _________________________________________ > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > >> > city. > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > List archive: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > >> > _________________________________________ > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > >> > city. > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > List archive: > > >> > > >> > > >> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, > > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here > http://cricket.yahoo.com > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > >> city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > ------------------------------ > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! > Buzz . > From lawrence at altlawforum.org Tue Jul 21 00:02:41 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 00:02:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Supreme Court hearing 20.07.2009 on Sec 377 References: <52cddec0907200652m48ff2a95s16b56e4c23e25d7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2EC31552-6322-45CF-ADAB-34015E572E67@altlawforum.org> > > > > > > --------- > > Dear All,Please find below a brief synopsis of today's proceedings > in the Supreme Court. We have also come to know that the Apostolic > Churches Alliance had mentioned the matter today, without notice to > us. We were told that the Chief Justice refused to grant early > hearing of this matter, or that it be tagged along with Suresh > Koushal's matter today, and that it would come up in its turn. Will > get the full orders as soon as it's released. I think Voices' > lobbying with the Government worked to give us a two month breather. > So congratulations! > Love > > Mayur > > > > The hearing on the SLP against Delhi HC's judgment (Suresh Kumar > Kaushal v. Naz Foundation SLP(C) No. 15436/2009) was heard by a > bench comprising of the Chief Justice and Justice Sathasivam. > > Attorney General Goolam Vahanvati started off by saying that the > Government took a particular stand before the High Court, but in > light of the judgment of the Delhi High Court, the Government was > reevaluating its stand, and that it needed more time to said the > Government has a definite stand. He said that section 377 remains on > the statute books and only a small portion of it has been taken out > of the ambit of the law. (In my reading indicating that child abuse > and non-consensual sex remained crimes.) He said that the section > has been declared unconstitutional only insofar as it applies to > consensual sexual acts between adults, and that the Government > requires more time to arrive at a conclusion at this regard. He then > particularly stated that the Government does not support the plea of > interim stay of the judgment. > > The Petitioner's counsel drew attention to the submission that the > provision was not being utilised against consenting adults. But the > impact of the Delhi High Court's judgment, he suggested, is such > that consenting adult sex between two males is legalised, whereas > commercial sex between male and female continues to be illegal. The > Counsel for the petitioner further argued that as a result gay > marriages were taking place throughout the country. > > The Attorney General then interjected by stating that the judgment > does do nothing to change or alter marriage laws and that marriage > laws still continue to use bride and groom meaning that they are > only between a man and a woman. > > Anand Grover then questioned the locus of the petitioner to bring > this petition. He said that he was neither a party at the High > Court, nor has he made any pleadings as to the nature of his right > that is affected by the ruling of the Delhi High Court. The Chief > Justice however, said in a public interest matter, there is no > question of there being no locus. > > Counel for the Petitioner then interjected that homosexuals are 8 > times more likely to have, and therefore spread HIV/AIDS to the > general population. Anand Grover then interjected that it is because > of section 377 that homosexuals are more prone to HIV/AIDS. Anil > Divan, Counsel for Voices Against 377 then stated that NACO had > reached a similar conclusion. > > Counsel for BP Singhal stated that the UK House of Lords in the > decision of R v. Brown stated that consensual homosexuality remained > a crime, and was a dangerous practice, and that consent does not > necesarily mean that no crime was committed. He stated that this > judgment would mean that consensual adultery, consensual gambling > would all be allowed. Anil Divan, on behalf of the NGO, Voices, > argued that the HC judgment is in line with the UN Resolutions, and > WHO guidelines. Secondly, he said many countries including Fiji, > South Africa, Canada, whole of Europe, South Africa ,Hong Kong have > decriminalised the same sex conduct. > > CJI at this point intervened to say that our civilization is > different from European civilization. Anil Divan replied saying that > our culture also includes Khajuraho, and Kamasutra. > > The Counsel for BP Singhal then referred to Mahatma Gandhi's > criticism of gay sex behaviour. As editor of the journal Young > India, Mahatma Gandhi wrote in 1929 about the 'unnatural vice' in > boys' school. > > The Petitioner's then argued that the law has been in place for more > than 150 years and that the world would not turn upside down if the > judgment was stayed while the government formulated its stand. He > argued that there had been no conviction under S.377 and that the > law was being used only against pedophiles, and therefore, a stay on > HC judgment would not make any difference. > > He then argued that if the Chief justice was not granting a stay > then, that the Chief Justice should also issue a stay on the > registration of all gay marriages. The CJI said such marriages are > prohibited under the Personal Laws, and the judgment did not > legalise gay marriages. When the Petitioner's counsel argued that 70 > per cent of population lives in villages, and people mostly don't > understand that the HC order legalised sexual conduct, and not > marriages between two consenting same sex adults, the CJI said that > cannot be a ground for the stay. > > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | > Calendar > > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch > format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > RECENT ACTIVITY > Visit Your Group > Give Back > Yahoo! for Good > > Get inspired > > by a good cause. > > Y! Toolbar > Get it Free! > > easy 1-click access > > to your groups. > > Yahoo! Groups > Start a group > > in 3 easy steps. > > Connect with others. > > . > > __,_._,___ > > > > -- > Alternative Law Forum > 122/4 Infantry Road > Opposite Infantry Wedding House > Bangalore 560001 > Phone 22868757/22865757 > From binasarkar at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 19:28:21 2009 From: binasarkar at gmail.com (Bina Sarkar) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:28:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] URGENT!!: Free Kian Petition Message-ID: Friends, My friend Kian Tajbakhsh has been arrested in Tehran and taken to an undisclosed prison. He is a social scientist and scholar of repute and returned to his country, his country that he loves very much, from the US so he may serve in its progress and development. His arrest is to be resoundingly condemned. His wife and little daughter cannot reach him. Please join me in a petition at http://www. FreeKian09.org for his immediate release. Please spread the message... and thank you for your support, Bina Dear Friends, The AP article on the latest family statement on Kian's detention was evidently covered widely in the Persian media. The issue of Kian's detention, torture, and the regular practice by Iranian security forces of extracting forced statements from political prisoners for the sole purpose of staging televised show trials was publicly discussed. The family of a well-known Iranian politician who had been arrested on her way to prayers last Friday also issued a statement expressing their concern that she may be under pressure to make false statements. Some Persian media outlets combined this news with reports of the AP article about Kian. Most importantly, although the sensitivity of the information does not allow for further elaboration, I can report that for the first time in many days we have evidence that Kian is okay, and that his treatment in prison may have improved. Those most familiar with the case of Kian and other political prisoners are convinced that this relatively 'kind' treatment is a direct reaction to the AP article criticizing the regime's use of torture and show trials with political prisoners. Incidentally Iranian intelligence appears to be actively monitoringwww.FreeKian09.org, according to our webmaster. Thanks again so much for your support and concern. Yours, Pam -- Bina Sarkar Ellias Editor/publisher –– Gallerie Publishers 208 Om Chambers Kemps Corner Mumbai 400036 India Tel: 91 22 23673366 Fax: 91 22 2363 3928 http://www.gallerie.net From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 08:54:46 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:54:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Historical Tales - Suyya, the Great Medieval Engineer of Kashmir Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907202024p202eea1am966cab46a49da01e@mail.gmail.com> Suyya, the Great Medieval Engineer of Kashmir Sculpture and architecture flourished in ancient Kashmir. Buddhist, Egyptian and Greek styles influenced Kashmir architecture, which lives in the fluted columns, lofty pediments and solid arches of the many monuments. It is not so well-known that Kashmir was celebrated in engineering as well. Suyya was the greatest engineer of medieval Kashmir. He lived during the reign of Avantivarman (857-884 A.D.), the ruins of whose stone temples exist at Avantipore, about 20 km above Srinagar, Suyya's great engineering feats, described in the tale entitled after him, are even now remembered by the people. The versatile Suyya was a learned scholar; he first conceived the idea of a sanctuary to preserve wildlife among birds and animals. Major de Lotbiniere, who dredged the jhelum at a point where it falls over a gorge 8 km below Baramulla, in the reign of Maharaja Pratap Singh, took his cue from and greatly appreciated the skill and originality of Suyya. Sopore-Suyyapur-a town, on the banks of the Jhelum, 11 km from Baramulla, commemorates Suyya. He dug so many canals from the broad-bosomed Vitasta (Jhelum) that it looked "a black female snake with numerous hoods resting on one body". (Rajatarangini). In the 8th century A.D., Lalitaditya Muktapidya had drained Vitasta (the Jhelum) in the vast vale of Kashmir, because floods caused by excessive rains would damage the crops. The great emperor also had many canals dug out from the Vitasta. After Jayapidya, kings of little virility and vision ruled the Valley. More and more lands were denuded by or submerged under the mater as the bed of the Vitasta rose in the course of many decades. The people were unhappy. Avantipura was the capital of Kashmir. The town was spread about the two magnificent temples, Avantiswami and Avantasvara. Their noteworthy ruins, found 20 km from Srinagar on the roadside, interest the tourists to Kashmir under the foot of a towering craggy mountain, on arising plateau that flanked the Vitasta and commanded a fine, broad view of the Valley fields, uplands and encircling ranges of mountains. Here lived the King of Kashmir, Avantivannan, (857884 A.D.), the great builder of temples, who was a saint-monarch. His courtiers and ministers sat about him as he gazed out of the window. "There, you see the inundated fields;" sadly remarked Avantivarman, "the Vitasa creeps over more fields like a devouring serpent. We did much for our people. But how can we rid them of this menace which is starving them now?" "Sire," replied the prime minister, Sura, "Your Majesty has got dug so many canals. Others, blocked up during scores of years of misrule, when kings and queens were more concerned with their palace intrigues than with the welfare of the people, were cleared. What more can we do?" "Something more has to be done,' persisted the king, "yearly the Vitasta is rising, overflowing cultivated land and submerging riverside towns, villages and hamlets." "Sire", rejoined the minister Prabhakaravarman, " the price of a Khari of paddy has risen to 250 dinnaras." The King fell athinking. The poet Anandavardhana broke the silence, after a while, "Sire, in Parihaspura I heard of a man who has been saying for years, 'I have a plan to save Kashmir from floods. I would work it out if I had the resources.' People say he is a madman." Avantivarman was interested and said, "Tell us more about him". "I know no more, Sire," confessed Anandavardhana, "but I can have the man traced." Suravarman, the Yuvaraja, supplied the information: "Sire, the man is a Brahmin, Suyya. They say he wasn't born of a woman's womb. A Chandala woman, named Suyya, found a baby in a dust heap, sucking its thumb in a new earthen pot which had a lid on. The lustrous-eyed babe was not polluted by her with her touch. She had it brought up by a Shudra wet nurse and she gave her own name to the baby. The boy, as he grew up, picked up the Vedas and other learning very precociously. Now he fasts and bathes a lot and leads a very religious life. He goes about saying he has a plan to do away with the floods of the Vitasta. People, as Anandavardhana said, call him mad". "Very interesting", commented Avantivarman. "Sire", observed Sura, who was thinking out his opinion so far, "I too have heard about this man Suyya. People's reports and facts may not agree. We cannot be sure that the man is crazy, unless we know better". "Precisely, that is what we feel. Send your spies, Sura, and find out where Suyya is. Let him be granted an audience before us". In a few days Suyya was present in the King's court. The courtiers passed whispering remarks about his strange appearance: he was a very handsome youth with the large lotus eyes they had heard of. The lustre of chastity shone bright on his face. He looked a scholar. There was something extremely individual about him. As he talked to the King in his serious manner, a silence fell on the court. To the King's question, he replied, "Sire, it's true that all these years I have talked that I have a plan to drain the Valley. For the present, give me only two pots full of dinnaras. With that I will bring down the inundated waters by one-third their volume". "He is crazy", the courtiers cut him short. "Crazy or no ?" rang Suyya's voice. "Trust me with the money 1 want, great Maharaja. See the result, Sire. I am not a robber to do away with people's money". Sura for once did not know what to say. He fidgeted his fingers, a-thinking. Avantivarman spoke his decision:" Suyya, you will have the two pots of dinnaras. Our men will go with you". There was a commotion as Suyya, accompanied by a few soldiers, left the court, bowing three times, walking backwards, with folded hands and looking towards the throned monarch. In Madhavarajya (now called Maraj, the part of the Valley on either side of the Jhelum above Srinagar), Suyya dropped one pot of dinnaras in a flooded village, Nankaka, where the water was logged up. The Maharaja's men thought that Suyya was indeed crazy. Then Suyya cruised down the Vitasta to Kramarajya (now, Kamraj, the part of the Valley on either side of the Jhelum, below Srinagar), and dropped the other vessel of dinnaras near Yaksodara in the Vitasta, at a point where, in the course of time, boulders, fallen from the mountainous banks, had bottled up the neck of the river. The result was that the Vitasta's current had been reversed and water gushed back into the Valley, overflowing farm, field, garden and town. At this time many people starved due to the lack and high prices of foodstuffs. The famished and unemployed peasants living about Nankaka and Yaksodara heard of the pots of dinmras dropped into the water. Afloat on inflated skins, they braved the boulders to extract the dinnaras. The displaced boulders at Nankaka were rushed down by the torrential water. More water flowed down. The boulders rolled down from the overhanging mountains had squeezed the Vitasta at Yaksodara. They were displaced by the people, desperately delving for the dinnaras. When that happened, some of the water resumed its natural current. Indeed by this process, the Valley was being drained to one-third the volume of lake and river water. Many sand-laden fields were bared as the muddy waters fell in level overnight. Avantivarman and his ministers saw the working of the 'miracle'. They did not call Suyya crazy or the like any longer. Suyya did not heed or love applause just as he had been indifferent to hostile criticisms of his plans. These were now working after all. That was all that mattered with him. When much of the flood water was drained, he had a huge dam constructed; thus he locked the entire Vitasta for a week. In the meantime, by the organised use of labour of hundreds of men, the bed of the Vitasta was cleared and the boulders were removed where the river rolled down between precipices. Stone embankments were constructed as a counter measure against rolling boulders resuming their position. The dam was opened. The mad waters leaped down furiously. The Vitasta was finally cleared of obstacles to its smooth course "Covered with mud and asparkle with fish, the land when stripped of water, appeared like the vault of the sky which when free from clouds dispels the gloom of darkness and is full of stars". No one was more pleased at the success of Suyya than the munificent Avantivarman who freely provided him with money and resources for his countrywide engineering enterprises. Suyya was appointed the royal engineer. Highest honours were conferred on him by the King who also regarded Suyya highly for his meritorious life of chastity and learning. New channels were opened out from the Vitasta into the dry interior where the rains came but precariously. "With several canals thrown out from the original main stream the river shone like a black female snake with numerous hoods resting on one body." The site of Historical Tales of Kashmir the confluence of the Sindhu (Indus) and the Vitasta was changed by Suyya. The alteration was planned to the general good of irrigation. Indeed, "he made the various streams, whose undulating ripples were their tongues, take to any course at his own pleasure like a charmer of the female snakes". Next, the dynamic Suyya turned his attention to Mahapadma (Wular Lake) - the largest fresh water lake in India - into which the Vitasta flows. At the point where the Vitasta left the lake, the bed was dredged, with the result that the Vitasta emerged on her course with swiftness, like an arrow from the mechanism of the bow. Through mile-long dykes, much of the rich surrounding land, that was submerged under water, was reclaimed. All types of villages were founded. For miles around the lake, which seemed to stretch to the horizons, Suyya founded a sanctuary of birds and prohibited the killing of birds and fishes. His idea, apart from its humanitarian aspects, was to preserve rare wild species among birds. On the banks of the Vitasta where she emerges from the waters of the Mahapadma lake, Suyya founded the prosperous town, Suyyapura, (now Sopore), named after him. He founded Suyya Kundala in memory of the woman whose name he bore. In her name tie also constructed Suyya Bridge. The philanthropic monarch, Avantivarman, founded many a new town and village that grew up when more and more canals from the Vitasta spread across the Valley. Sura founded Surapura. The King and his minister highly esteemed Suyya, the engineer of untiring industry and fertile imagination who was also endowed with practical wisdom and encyclopaedic learning. Wherever the banks of the Vitasta were vulnerable, strong stone embankments were constructed. Suyya determined the exact period at which each and every village would require irrigation. With indefatigable energy, Suyya decided the extent and distribution of canal water on a permanent basis. Kashmiri farmers for the first time achieved the prosperity that was never before known by them. Paddy grew in such abundance that, in the lifetime of Suyya, its price per Khari fell from 250 to 36 dinnaras. "Neither Kashyapa nor Samskarna had conferred benefits such as conferred with ease on this realm by Suyya of meritorious acts. The reclamation of the land from water, the bestowal of it to pious Brahmins, the building of barrages with stones in water and the suppression of Kaliya, which were achieved by Vishnu in four incarnations of righteous acts, were achieved by Suyya, who had a mass of religious merits, in a single birth only." * *Rajatarangini, Taranga V, 113, 115. Source: Tales of Kashmir by Somnath Dhar -- Copyrights © 2009 Kashmir News Network (KNN) at http://iKashmir.net/copyrights.html . All Rights Reserved. No material, including the literature, audio, video and photographic material should be copied or reproduced in any form or context without the written permission of KNN. Disclaimer is at: http://iKashmir.net/disclaimer.html From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 08:59:45 2009 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:59:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Smokers=92_Corner=3A_School=92s_ou?= =?windows-1252?q?t_-Are_young_non-Muslim_students_excluded_from_na?= =?windows-1252?q?tional_identity=3F_Nadeem_F_Paracha_in_Dawn?= Message-ID: <13df7c120907202029l1afda678r5cf6b8a49d4f821f@mail.gmail.com> *Pakistan is a multi-lingual, multi-ethnic and a multi-religious society. Non-Muslims are an integral part of it. Many of them have contributed to the country’s image, stature and well-being. However, according to the scholar and educationist, Professor A. H. Nayyar, the culture, the idiom and the manners of Muslim ‘majority-ism’ started gaining currency after 1971 and, in turn, got reflected in the educational process. A certain brand of Muslim sensibilities was imposed on all.* Another educationist, Dr Rubina Saigol, suggests that the attempt to mould the minds of the young through textbooks started in earnest in the early 1980s with the political agenda of Islamisation of the state. The syllabus was redesigned and textbooks were rewritten to create a monolithic image of Pakistan as an Islamic state and Pakistani citizens as Muslims only. According to Saigol, this clearly tells young non-Muslim students that they are excluded from national identity. In an extensive study conducted by Nayyar and Ahmad Salim, in 2002, the following four themes emerged most strongly in history textbooks in Pakistan: that Pakistan is for Muslims alone; the Ideology of Pakistan is deeply interlinked with faith; one should never trust Hindus and India; and students should take the path of Jihad and martyrdom. Scholars like Ayesha Jalal and Pervez Hoodbhoy have argued that the term ‘Ideology of Pakistan (Islam)’ is an after-thought; it was absent at the time of the creation of Pakistan. According to them Jinnah never used the words ‘Ideology of Pakistan’ (especially in respect to Islam). For fifteen years after the establishment of Pakistan, the Ideology of Pakistan was not known to anybody, until in 1962 some members of the Jamat-i-Islami used the words for the first time. The ‘Ideology of Pakistan’ had no historical basis in the Pakistan movement. It was coined much later by those political forces that needed it to sanctify their particular brand of politics — especially those Islamist parties which had earlier been against the creation of Pakistan. Even though in a report the famous Justice Munir strongly noted that Jinnah never uttered the words ‘Ideology of Pakistan,’ the curriculum documents insist that the students be taught the Ideology of Pakistan that was laid down by the Quaid. No textbook has ever been able to cite a single reference to Jinnah using the term. On the contrary, Mr Jinnah’s speech to the Constituent Assembly on the 11th of September, 1947, completely defies the so-called ‘ideology’, as it has come to be presented in textbooks. It was during the Islamisation era of General Ziaul Haq that the use of the term was consolidated and made to appear in the curriculum documents. It was also firmly turned into an article of faith. Nayyar, Jalal, Hoodbhoy and Saigol suggest that associated with the ‘Ideology of Pakistan’ is an essential component of hate against India and Hindus. Some time after Pakistan’s defeat in the 1971 war, Indo-Pakistan history was replaced with Pakistan Studies, whose sole purpose was to define Pakistan as an Islamic state. Students were deprived of learning about pre-Islamic history of their region. Instead, history books now started with the Arab conquest of Sindh and swiftly jumped to the Muslim conquerors from Central Asia. *Nayyar and Salim have pointed out the following examples of the expression of hate in post-1971 history textbooks: that: Hindus have always been an enemy of Islam; Hindus worship in temples which are very narrow and dark places, where they worship idols; Hindus declared Congress rule as the Hindu rule, and started to unleash terror on Muslims; Hindus always desired to crush Muslims as a nation; Gandhi was as an extremist.* What’s more all history in these books is along religious lines while social, historical, material and economic causes are missing. After 1979, the themes of Jihad and martyrdom in textbooks become strong. In this period, history and social study books eulogise Jihad and martyrdom. According to Nayyar, in Pakistan the impression one gets from Pakistan Studies textbooks is that the students don’t learn history, but rather a carefully crafted collection of half-truths, even falsehoods. For example, in these books, Muhammad bin Qasim is declared the first Pakistani citizen. The story of the Arabs’ arrival in Sindh is accounted as the first move towards Pakistan with the glorious ascendancy of Islam. A widely taught history book insists that, ‘Although Pakistan was created in August 1947, present-day Pakistan has existed, as a more or less single entity, for centuries.’ Both Nayyar and Salim conclude that one should not be surprised at the irrational hate and confusion that ensconce Pakistani children after what they have learnt in school. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/nadeem-f-paracha-schools-out-ss-01 -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 13:47:51 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:47:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Karl Marx, Evangelical? By Case Wagenvoord Countercurrents.org Message-ID: <1f9180970907210117v113ad29bhcf16f8414fffb3f@mail.gmail.com> ** Karl Marx, Evangelical? *By Case Wagenvoord* 20 July, 2009 *Countercurrents.org* Ennui is gripping the left. It sits paralyzed, holding its breath, as it waits for its Messiah, Barack Obama, to step into a phone booth, shed his suit and leap out as Super Lefty who flies the country into the elysian fields of progressive glory. It’s not going to happen for two reasons: Obama’s a centrist and phone booths are no more. But, the left still waits, hoping, discussing, analyzing, lamenting, and grousing while the shadow of economic misery spreads across the land. It is time Karl Marx went evangelical. That’s where the action is. There you have the spirit and the passion without which a revolution is simply all talk and no action. In other words, the Left has to climb down from its ivory tower and not only join the sweating throngs in their basement and storefront churches; it’s got to lead the goddamn revivals. Their appeal must be to the gut, not the brain. As Drew Weston points out in his book, The Political Brain: Rationalizations are the post hoc smoke that billows from emotional fires. In our study, only after (emphasis his) partisans had come to emotionally biased judgments did we see any activation in the circuits usually associated with reasoning, suggesting that they had begun to develop rationalizations for their emotional biases. Murray Dobbin[1] did piece on America’s radical rabbi, Michael Lerner, who believes the left is cursed by the dead albatross of secular fundamentalism, and advocates a more spiritual approach. However, as Dobbin points out, “Spiritualism seems to fly in the face of the kind of rationalism that has been at the core of socialist and social democratic theory for nearly two centuries.” Yet, for all his talk of spiritualism, Dobbin and Learner still seems mired in a rationalist tar pit. Dobbin speaks of “engaging” people when the talk should be of inspiring and inflaming them. Lerner advocates a “politics of meaning” that “fosters ethically, spiritually, ecologically, and psychologically sensitive and caring human beings who can maintain long-term, living personal and social relationships.” It’s a nice thought, but it lacks passion and poetry. Why not speak of the Workers Paradise as the Kingdom of God on Earth where they beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, and where: The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall feed; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The sucking child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of The Lord as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:6-9 RSV) Dobbin asks, “Why do further millions identify with right-wing evangelical religion rather than the call for secular social justice?” The “Religious Right” is a media invention, and Progressives, me included, have fallen into to this trap by heaping scorn on the very group that could well be the vanguard of a revolutionary movement. Consequently, the field has been left open to a handful of televangelists who are to Christianity what Jack the Ripper was to feminism. They preach hate and, consequently, fundamentalists have wasted their time on meaningless culture wars over gay marriage and evolution instead of putting their focus on the message of social justice found in the teachings of Jesus. . These are people looking for meaning and community in their lives. They have rejected our fantasyland of go-go consumerism and are looking for more. All they need be shown is that their meaning lies not in the Book of Revelation but in Marx. Latin America is light years ahead of us with their Liberation Theology that blends Christianity and Marxism. There is another reason to send Karl to the nearest bible college. A long-standing ruse of our oligarchs has been to split the dispossessed classes along racial and ethnic lines. They well understand that the poor will suffer in silence as long as there is another group they can look down on. This is why southern oligarchs maintained a rift between poor blacks and poor whites with their Jim Crow laws and why Republicans sputter so about “illegal” immigrants.. In spite of this, there is one common thread that unites poor Euromericans, Afromericans and Hispanomericans, and that is their fundamentalist faith. If the left could tap into that, we would be a power to be reckoned with. Sure, we’d have to lose our ideological prissiness, but that could be a plus. Dobbin nails it when he reams Canada’s socialist party for failing to develop a radical vision for the future. Instead of addressing people’s need for a broader meaning, it “reduces that vision to a package of disconnected, minor reforms that doesn’t offend the media power brokers. Of course, it doesn’t’ inspire anyone either….” As Weston likes to ask, “Who remembers Martin Luther King’s ‘I have a plan’ speech?” *Case Wagenvoord *is a citizen who reads. He has a BA in Political Science and an MA in Liberal Studies. He blogs at *http://belacquajones.blogspot.com * and welcomes comments at* Wagenvoord at msn.com*. -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Jul 21 14:02:02 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:02:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Left is Wrong on Iran:Hamid Dabashi in Al Ahram Message-ID: <40e34537ba8fd70a75bba6df112858eb@sarai.net> Left is wrong on Iran Hamid Dabashi Al Ahram Weekly, Cairo 16 - 22 July 2009 Issue No. 956 http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/956/op5.htm When a political groundswell like the Iranian presidential election of June 2009 and its aftermath happen, the excitement and drama of the moment expose not just our highest hopes but also our deepest fault lines, most troubling moral flaws, and the dangerous political precipice we face. Over the decades I have learned not to expect much from what passes for "the left" in North America and/or Western Europe when it comes to the politics of what their colonial ancestry has called "the Middle East". But I do expect much more when it comes to our own progressive intellectuals -- Arabs, Muslims, South Asians, Africans and Latin Americans. This is not a racial bifurcation, but a regional typology along the colonial divide. By and large this expectation is apt and more often than not met. The best case in point is the comparison between what Azmi Bishara has offered about the recent uprising in Iran and what Slavoj Zizek felt obligated to write. Whereas Bishara's piece (with aspects of which I have had reason to disagree) is predicated on a detailed awareness of the Iranian scene, accumulated over the last 30 years of the Islamic Republic and even before, Zizek's (the conclusion of which I completely disagree with) is entirely spontaneous and impressionistic, predicated on as much knowledge about Iran as I have about the mineral composition of the planet Jupiter. The examples can be multiplied by many, when we add to what Azmi Bishara has written pieces by Mustafa El-Labbad and Galal Nassar, for example, and compare them to the confounded blindness of Paul Craig Roberts, Anthony DiMaggio, Michael Veiluva, James Petras, Jeremy Hammond, Eric Margolis, and many others. While people closest to the Iranian scene write from a position of critical intimacy, and with a healthy dose of disagreement, those farthest from it write with an almost unanimous exposure of their constitutional ignorance, not having the foggiest idea what has happened in that country over the last 30 years, let alone the last 200 years, and then having the barefaced chutzpah to pontificate one thing or another -- or worse, to take more than 70 million human beings as stooges of the CIA and puppets of the Saudis. Let me begin by stating categorically that in principle I share the fundamental political premise of the left, its weariness of US imperial machination, of major North American and Western European media (but by no means all of them) by and large missing the point on what is happening around the globe, or even worse seeing things from the vantage point of their governmental cues, which they scarcely question. It has been but a few months since we have come out of the nightmare of the Bush presidency, or the combined chicaneries of Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and John Ashcroft, or of the continued calamities of the "war on terror". Iran is still under the threat of a military strike by Israel, or at least more severe economic sanctions, similar to those that are responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis during the Clinton administration. Iraq and Afghanistan are burning, Gaza is in utter desolation, Northern Pakistan is in deep humanitarian crisis, and Israel is stealing more Palestinian lands every day. With all his promises and pomp and ceremonies, President Obama is yet to show in any significant and tangible way his change of course in the region from that of the previous administration. The US Congress, prompted by AIPAC (the American Israel Political Affairs Committee), pro-war vigilantes lurking in the halls of power in Washington DC, and Israeli warlords and their propaganda machinery in the US, are all excited about the events in Iran and are doing their damnedest to turn them to their advantage. The left, indeed, has reason to worry. But having principled positions on geopolitics is one thing, being blind and deaf to a massive social movement is something entirely different, as being impervious to the flagrant charlatanism of an upstart demagogue like Ahmadinejad. The sign and the task of a progressive and agile intelligence is to hold on to core principles and seek to incorporate mass social uprising into its modus operandi. My concern here is not with that retrograde strand in the North American or Western European left that is siding with Ahmadinejad and against the masses of millions of Iranians daring the draconian security apparatus of the Islamic Republic. They are a lost cause, and frankly no one could care less what they think of the world. What does concern me is when an Arab intellectual like Asad AbuKhalil opts to go public with his assessment of this movement -- and what he says so vertiginously smacks of recalcitrant fanaticism, steadfastly insisting on a belligerent ignorance. On his website, "Angry Arab", Asad AbuKhalil finally has categorically stated that he is "now more convinced than ever that the US and Western governments were far more involved in Iranian affairs during the demonstrations than was assumed by many." He then tries to be cautious and cover his back by stipulating, "Let us make it clear: the US, Western and Saudi intervention in Iranian affairs does not necessarily implicate the Iranian protesters themselves. And even if some of them were involved in those conspiracies, I do believe that the majority of Iranian protesters were motivated by domestic issues and legitimate grievances against an oppressive government." This latter stipulation is in fact worse than that categorical statement about the conspiratorial plot behind the movement, for it seeks to play fancy speculative footwork to cover up a moral bankruptcy -- that he dare not take a stand, one way or another. AbuKhalil's final edict: "I was just looking at US and Western media coverage of Honduras, where the situation is rather analogous, and you can't escape the conclusion that the US media were involved with the US government in a conspiracy the details of which will be revealed years from now." In other words, since the US media is not covering the Honduras development as closely as it does (or so AbuKhalil fancies) the Iranian event, then the US media is in cahoots with the US government in fomenting unrest in Iran, and thus this movement is manufactured by US imperial designs with Saudi aid; and though we may not have evidence of this yet, we will learn of its details 30 years from now, when a Stephen Kinzer comes and writes an account of the plot, as he did about the CIA- sponsored coup of 1953. One simply must have dug oneself deeply and darkly, mummified inside a forgotten and hollowed grave on another planet not to have seen, heard and felt for millions of human beings risking their brave lives and precious liberties by pouring into the streets of their cities demanding their constitutional rights for peaceful protest. Thousands of them have been arrested and jailed, their loved ones worried sick about their whereabouts; hundreds of their leading public intellectuals, journalists, civil and women's rights activists, rounded up and incarcerated, harassed and even tortured, some brought to national television to confess that they are spies for "the enemy". There are pregnant women among those leading reformists arrested, as are such leading intellectuals as Said Hajjarian, who is paralysed having barely survived an assassination attempt by precisely those in the upper echelons of the Islamic Republic who have yet again put him and his wheelchair in jail. Three prominent reformists, all heroes of the Islamic revolution (Khatami, Mousavi, and Karrubi: a former president, a former prime minister, and a former speaker of the house to this very Islamic Republic) are leading the opposition, charging fraud, declaring Ahmadinejad illegitimate. The senior most Grand Ayatollah of the land, the octogenarian Ayatollah Montazeri, has openly declared Khamenei illegitimate. The Iranian parliament is deeply divided and in turmoil. A massively militarised security apparatus has wreaked havoc on the civilian population: beating, clubbing, tear gassing, and plain shooting at them. University dormitories have been savagely raided by plainclothes vigilantes and students beaten up with batons, clubs, kicks, and fists by oversize thugs. Millions of Iranians around the globe have taken to the streets, their leading public figures -- philosophers like Abdul-Karim Soroush, clerics like Mohsen Kadivar, public intellectuals like Ata Mohajerani, filmmakers like Mohsen Makhmalbaf, pop singers like Shahin Najafi, footballers of the Iranian national team, countless poets, novelists, scholars, scientists, women's rights activists, ad infinitum --coming out to voice their defiance of this barbarity perpetrated against their brothers and sisters. Not a single sentence, not a single word that I utter comes from CNN, The New York Times, Al-Arabiya or any other sources that Asad AbuKhalil loves to hate. None of these people means anything to Mr AbuKhalil? Can he really face these millions of people, their best and brightest, the mothers of those who have been cold- bloodedly murdered, tortured, beaten brut ally, paralysed for life, and tell them they are stooges of the CIA and the Saudis, and that CNN and Al-Arabiya have put them up to it? AbuKhalil has every legitimate reason to doubt the veracity of what he sees in US media. But at what point does a legitimate criticism of media representations degenerate into an illegitimate disregard for reality itself; or has a sophomoric reading of postmodernity so completely corrupted our moral standards that there is no reality any more, just representation? Asad AbuKhalil dismisses a mass social uprising that is unfolding right in front of his eyes as manufactured by Americans and the Saudis. What else does AbuKhalil know about Iran? Anything? Thirty years (predicated on 200 years) of thinking, writing, mobilising, political and artistic revolts, theological and philosophical debates -- does any of it ring a bell for Professor AbuKhalil? Do the names Mahmoud Shabestari, Abdul-Karim Soroush, Mohsen Kadivar, among scores of others, mean anything to him? Has he ever listened to these young Iranians speak, cared to learn the lyrics of their music, watched the films they make, gone to a photography exhibition they have put together, seen any of their art work, or perhaps glanced at their newspapers, journals, magazines, weblogs, websites? Are all these stooges of America, manipulated by CIA agents, bought and paid for by the Saudis? What depth of intellectual depravation is this? In his most recent posting, AbuKhalil has this to say about Iran: "For the most reliable coverage of the Iran story, I strongly recommend the New York Times. I mean, they have Michael Slackman in Cairo and Nazila Fathi in Toronto, and they have 'independent observers' in Tehran. What else do you want? If you want more, the station of King Fahd's brother-in-law (Al-Arabiya) has a correspondent in Dubai to cover Iran. And according to a report that just aired, Mousavi received 91 per cent of the vote in 'an elite neighbourhood'. I kid you not. They just said that." The Iranians have no reporters, no journalists, no analysts, no pollsters, no economists, no sociologists, no political scientist, no newspaper editorials, no magazines, no blogs, and no websites? If AbuKhalil has this bizarre obsession with the American or Saudi media that he loves to hate, does that psychological fixation ipso facto deprive an entire nation of their defiance against tyranny, their agency in changing their own destiny? What a terrible state of mind to be in! AbuKhalil has so utterly lost hope in us -- us Arabs, Iranians, Muslims, South Asians, Africans, Latin Americans -- that it does not even occur to him that maybe, just maybe, if we take our votes seriously the US and Israel may not have anything to do with it. He fancies himself opposing the US and Israel. But he has such a deeply colonised mind that he thinks nothing of us, of our will to fight imperial intervention, colonial occupation of our homelands, and domestic tyranny at one and the same time. He believes if we do it then Americans and the Saudis must have put us up to it. He is so utterly lost in his own moral desolation and intellectual despair that in his estimation only Americans can instigate a mass revolt of the sort that has unfolded in front of his eyes. What an utterly frightful state for an intellectual to be in: no trust, no courage, no imagination and no hope. That we, as a people, as a nation, as a collective will, have fought for over 200 years for our constitutional rights has never occurred to AbuKhalil. What gives a man the authority to speak so cavalierly about another nation, of whom he knows nothing? Ten years I spent watching every single Palestinian film I could lay my hands on before I opened my mouth and uttered a word about Palestinian cinema. I visited every conceivable archive in North America and Western Europe, travelled from Morocco to Syria, drove from one end of Palestine to another, was blessed by the dignity of Palestinians resisting the horror of a criminal occupation of their homeland, walked and showed bootlegged videos on mismatched equipment and stolen electricity from one Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon to another; then I went to Syria and found a Palestinian archivist who knew infinitely more about Palestinian cinema than I did, and I sat at his feet and learned humility, and I still did not dare put pen to paper or open my mouth about anything Palestinian without asking a Palestinian scholar -- from Edward Said to Rashid Khalidi to Joseph Massad -- to read what I had written before I dared publishing it. This I did not out of any vacuous belief in scholarship, but out of an abiding respect for the dignity of Palestinians fighting for their liberties and their stolen homeland, and fearful of the burden of responsibility that writing about a nation's struggles puts on those of us who have a voice and an audience. For people like Zizek, social upheavals in what they call the Third World are a matter of theoretical entertainment. It is an old tradition that goes back all the way to Sartre on Algeria and Cuba in the 1950s, down to Foucault on Iran in the 1970s. That does not bother me a bit. In fact, I find it quite entertaining -- watching grown up people make complete fools of themselves talking about something about which they have no blasted clue. But when someone like AbuKhalil indulges in cliché ridden leftism of the most banal variety it speaks of a culture of intellectual laziness and moral bankruptcy so outrageously at odds with the struggles of people from which we emerge. Our people are not to conform to our tired, old, and cliché-ridden theories. We need to bypass intellectual couch potatoes and catch up with our people. Millions of people, young and old, lower and middle class, men and women, have poured in their masses of millions into the streets, launched their Intifada, demanding their constitutional rights and civil liberties. Who are these people? What language do they speak, what songs do they sing, what slogans do they chant, to what music do they sing and dance, what sacrifices have they made, what dungeons have they crowded, what epic poetry are they citing, what philosophers, theologians, jurists, poets, novelists, singers, song writers, musicians, webloggers soar in their souls, and for what ideals have their hearts and minds ached for generations and centuries? A colonised mind is a colonised mind whether it is occupied by the European right or by the cliché-ridden left: it is an occupied territory, devoid of detail, devoid of substance, devoid of love, devoid of a caring intellect. It smells of ageing mothballs, and it is nauseating. From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 14:02:34 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:02:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: We Are Neurologically Fucked By Tim Murray (Countercurrents.org) Message-ID: <1f9180970907210132p135f1318l3326d5b46df8c729@mail.gmail.com> "..Confinement to a prison cell to read a long novel or write a long hand-written letter would now be torture of the most excruciating kind. But this pattern of living is set by the workplace. That is the first domino. Workers come home exhausted and stressed out. They do not want mental calisthenics. They want R and R. They don’t want to think for themselves, they want release. The only news that can be imbibed is the junk food of short snappy sound bites of pre-digested thought from trusted sources.." We Are Neurologically Fucked *By Tim Murray* 20 July, 2009 *Countercurrents.org* *Less immediate threats are beyond human comprehension while immediate gratification commands our attention* Nicholas Kristof makes an cogent argument in “When Our Brains Short-Circuit”. http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/ oped/columnists/nicholasdkristof/index.html?inline=nyt-per> He maintains imminent threats grab our attention “while our brain circuitry is often cavalier about the future”. It is a programming well suited to the risks we encountered in the pre-historic age but woefully inept in meeting more abstract or distant 21st century challenges that threaten to extinguish our species. “Evidence is accumulating that the human brain systematically misjudges certain kinds of risks. In effect, evolution has programmed us to be alert for snakes and enemies with clubs, but we aren’t well prepared to respond to dangers that require forethought. If you come across a garter snake, nearly all of your brain will light up with activity as you process the “threat.” Yet if somebody tells you that carbon emissions will eventually destroy Earth as we know it, only the small part of the brain that focuses on the future — a portion of the prefrontal cortex — will glimmer.” But I should like to complement Kristof’s analysis with a slightly broader assessment of our cognitive impairment. I concur that we are congenitally designed to focus on short-term threats, and would even make the blunt assertion that as a species we are “wired’ to self-destruct. However the inability to go beyond the immediate and the imminent is not simply a failure to apprehend the future, but is the consequence of a deliberate survival mechanism, if evolution could be credited with foresight. Both individually and collectively we simply cannot take in all of the potential dangers that lie in wait for us. To so would be too overwhelming . Metaphorically speaking we have been installed with a “breaker switch” which shuts down anxiety over-load by preventing paralytic fear from taking hold. We cannot permit fear of death to overcome us. We need the nourishment of mental comfort food, religion---not truth---to “get through the night” and find meaning in an existence which denies it. In short, we are programmed for delusional optimism---willful ignorance of blatantly obvious facts, facts like our own mortality and the mortality of the human race. We can’t face our own death or the death of humanity itself. We need false hope to carry on. A life with meaning demands a belief in an after-life, if not a place in a physical heaven or a posthumous consciousness as disembodied spirits, then a belief that we will leave a durable legacy. There is a fundamental human need to “believe” that cannot be uprooted by reason or science. Hence the strong aversion people have to negative thinking. Undermining morale with the truth is identified as the most anti-social act imaginable. That is why atheism is universally regarded as abhorrent. And we think that we can change that? Our enterprise is perhaps as futile as trying to teach pythons to become vegetarian or cats to love swimming. People have a limited tolerance for bad news. Too much and we react with black humour, displacement behaviour and/or denial. Certainly the media promotes this mentality and blockades negativism, but in doing so it gives the audience what it wants. Escape. Even “the news” must be presented in an entertaining form. The need for mindless entertainment, for addictive consumerism, is the flip side of the increasing absence of creativity in the workplace, which Canadian labour historian Harry Braverman described as the logical extension of specialization, or “Fordism”. Even white collar and professional work is being stripped of creative elements in order that it become more productive. “Speed up” and higher productivity---more “efficiency”-- is the goal of industrial society—not job fulfillment. And the factory system has been extended to all facets of life. Even leisure activity must be structured. Children can no longer be left to find their own fun, but be channeled and shepherded to organized team sports and a full plate of “lessons” in dancing, skating, singing and the martial arts, to name a few. Lets all make “efficient” use of our time. Downtime and meditation is a crime. We must take “control” over our lives ironically by surrendering to an unnatural tempo. “Power” yoga, “power” walking, “power” naps. No time for idle conversation---time to talk must be arranged by appointment only. And conversations too have been adapted to the factory system. More and more people talk at 45 RPM, like chipmunks on speed. MSN text language is now employed orally. More and more adults exhibit Type A behaviour and begin to resemble the pimply salesman at Future Shop or the Source or any electronics store. They speak like disc jockeys terrified to leave more than a second of dead space between their rapid sentences. They treat your measured responses with barely concealed irritation. Cultivated impatience with any message that requires patient elaboration is the requirement of a consumer economy that inculcates quick dissatisfaction and a desire for immediate gratification. People even channel surf through relationships and jobs. The result of assembly-line living is both more stress and more boredom, boredom that is never more than temporarily appeased by more thrills, more variety, more novelty, . The need to overbook our time is best captured by the popularity of the adjective “smart”, which reflects the hopeless ambition to cram more and more into less and less. Smart growth. Smart immigration. Smart cars. Smart buildings. There is never any need to set limits when we can have it all by making it “smart”. Having it all but savoring none of it. Confinement to a prison cell to read a long novel or write a long hand-written letter would now be torture of the most excruciating kind. But this pattern of living is set by the workplace. That is the first domino. Workers come home exhausted and stressed out. They do not want mental calisthenics. They want R and R. They don’t want to think for themselves, they want release. The only news that can be imbibed is the junk food of short snappy sound bites of pre-digested thought from trusted sources. The ones that never attempt to challenge comfortable core beliefs. Even grim weather forecasts must be dressed up as passing annoyances by cheery bimbos who wish you a “great” weekend ahead. So why would we expect that our sober doomsday prognostications be given the time of day? Why would the harried drones of the modern economy prefer to read about the demise of another rainforest or the loss of tigers or polar bears? People’s magazine distracts them while National Geographic weighs them down. We are a flawed species with a limited shelf-life. Rigged to expire. We haven’t the intelligence to transcend our immediate wants. Idiot-savants who can perform heart transplants and design spacecraft but can’t see far enough ahead to take evasive actions. We are neurologically handicapped and unfit to reign over the planet. We’re fucked. -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 15:15:04 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:15:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Needed: Research Projects for Undergraduates in Bombay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do write to Khaliq if you can help. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Khaliq Parkar Date: Jul 21, 2009 12:17 PM Subject: Needed: Research Projects for Undergrads To: As you may know, I am teaching at Wilson College. I am also handling a centre which promotes co-curricular and extra-curricular research activities among students. We are tying up with different departments in the college so that the students have some background in research work when they graduate. If you are aware of any organization that is doing social research, market research, surveys, field-work on *any topic or issue*, could you please pass on their contact? At one level we want our students to participate in ongoing field-work, and we also would like to tie up with NGOs, research institutions, colleges, think tanks etc to design projects with participation of the students. If you think any of them fit the bill, do let me know. For practical purposes, we are looking at projects and organizations within the city of Mumbai. Regards, Khaliq Parkar Co-ordinator, Civil Services Centre, Wilson College, Chowpatty. 09819600277 khaliq.parkar at gmail.com From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 17:17:55 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:17:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Support Young Social Entrepreneurs Message-ID: http://fundacause.posterous.com/supporting-young-social-entrepreneurs Excerpts Support Youth Venture to invest and support young people to launch a one year entrepreneurial projects around social issues they feel passionate about. The cost of supporting one team is 45000 Rs. We want to support 20 team in Mumbai in our 3rd cycle.Visit us at www.youthventureindia.net Write to Vipin Thekkekalathil at tvipin at ashoka.org From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 21 19:23:08 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:53:08 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] (National Identity Card ) A digital Pandora's box - 153 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907210653l3d38b746va13cf5b50a805c30@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Here's a report published by The Hindu some years ago. MNIC/UIDC are smart cards, which are run on Smart Card Operating System for Transport Applications or SCOSTA based software. We need to pay attention to this report, particularly to two aspects of the process through which consensus around technology of smart card appears to have been achieved. The first one relates to the social dimension of the consensus building exercise carried out by the government of India at the national level. In this regard the report suggests, that there seems to be wide spread disagreement amongst so called technical experts who gave a green signal to this technology. Excerpt- Strangely enough, the Expert Committee chairman's report too took an open-ended position with regard to technology choice, contrary to the Apex Committee's recommendation. This was done apparently to accommodate evolving technologies, such as contact and contact-less (using wireless) `dual-interface' cards and larger storage capacity cards, such as optical strip, for multiple applications. However, Zarabi gave a dissenting note to the Chairman's report in November 2003. Veni Madhavan, however, declined to comment. But some people in the computer science community question the MoRTH's wisdom of appointing a person with private interests as the chairman of a committee on matters of public interest. Then there were cautious views emanating from the then officers representing the GOI too particularly around the issue of "vendor-driven technologies" which is perhaps interpreted in the official GOI jargon as G-B (Government-to-Business relationship) or in terms of official Sarkaari rhetoric as maybe 'Bhaagidari'. Excerpt- IN a panel discussion at the recent Smart Card Tech-India 2005 conference, with the theme "National ID Card - The Foundation of Trust in e-Governance", Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioned against "vendor-driven technologies". The second dimension relates to the technological compatibility of the card itself. The report suggests that there maybe violations and misinterpretations arising from the use prescribed by the so called 'Expert Committee' insofar as a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card is concerned. Excerpt- While a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card would have easily met any additional capacity that may be required by individual States, the note has been carefully worded to defeat that very purpose. The note says: "The microprocessor chip shall not carry any other information not prescribed for the purpose." So, even if the microprocessor had enough additional memory, it could not be used for any other application that may be envisaged, say one's National ID, for which the government has already initiated a pilot project for 3.2 million people in 13 regions across the country. Some questions related to this issue- Why is only SCOSTA software used for national identity card? What other technologies were considered? Why were they rejected? ON what grounds? Did the GOI of India did any cost benefit analysis on using the SCOSTA technology, if yes the what were the detailed findings? Who owns the patents for this technology? What are the conditions of use of this technology? How is the issue of inter-operability dealt with here? On what grounds did people like M.J. Zarabi, Chairman and Managing Director, Semiconductor Complex Ltd., Chandigarh, gave a dissenting note? Why did Veni Madhavan, a Computer Science Professor at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore declined to present a comment to the expert committee? Why was Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioning against "vendor-driven technologies"? What were his reasons? Warm regards Taha http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20050812003902500.htm&date=fl2216/&prd=fline& SPOTLIGHT A digital Pandora's box R. RAMACHANDRAN VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN The extra capacity added to the new smart card for car-owners gives no added benefits but has pushed up the cost. IN a panel discussion at the recent Smart Card Tech-India 2005 conference, with the theme "National ID Card - The Foundation of Trust in e-Governance", Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioned against "vendor-driven technologies". To many members of the audience, it was obvious what he was referring to. It was the legacy of the choice of an inappropriate technology made by the Delhi administration of 2003 in the introduction of IT in the road transport sector. Today, he finds himself in the embarrassing situation of having to implement it even though he disapproves of it. An important component of the much-hyped induction of IT in the transport sector in many States - as part of the government's nationwide e-governance initiative - is the smart card-based driving licence and vehicle registration certificate (VRC). But, as the process of implementing this scheme gets under way in many States, one is also witnessing a number of petitions in the courts against the choice and induction of the technology. And in many instances, the cases have been dragged into the Supreme Court. As regards the technology, the main contentious issue relates to the respective governments' invitation for bids for the supply of simple microprocessor-based smart cards (with a minimum memory of 4 KB) for driving licences, and an optical smart card which has an optical strip (of memory 1.5 MB or more) in addition to the microprocessor chip (of 4 KB memory or more) for VRCs. Petitioners have contended that this is in violation of the guidelines issued by the Central Ministry of Road Transport and Highways (MoRTH) under the Central Motor Vehicles Act and associated Rules. Since these only required that driving licences and VRCs should have a minimum 4 kb memory on a microprocessor chip, the States had no legal authority to insist upon an additional feature like an optical strip. The basic guidelines issued by the Centre were: uniformity across the country; readability throughout the country; inter-operability across States; and non-proprietary or open-source technology that would allow indigenous modification or development. Operationally, these translated into conformity to ISO standards (ISO-7816-1, 2, 3), which ensured uniformity and non-proprietary technology; standardised hand-held terminals, which ensured readability everywhere; and compliance to open source Smart Card Operating System for Transport Applications (SCOSTA) software, based on ISO-7816-4, 8, 9 standards, which ensured inter-operability. SCOSTA was developed by Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur, based on specifications drawn up by an apex committee set up in 2000 by the MoRTH - that included experts from the National Informatics Centre (NIC) of the Ministry of Information Technology and Communications (MCIT) and IIT-Kanpur, and representatives of industry. The SCOSTA specifications were established to ensure that every card used for a driving licence or a VRC is certified by a set of tests designated by the NIC and IIT-K to ensure the usability of the smart card with the same specifications by all States. The origin of the controversy can be traced to the MoRTH's gazette notification GSR 513(E) of August 10, 2004, which set out the specifications for smart cards as amendments to the Central Motor Vehicle Rules. The footnote to the notification provided room for (deliberate) arbitrariness and manipulation in the States' interpretation of the Rules. There is, as a result, more than a hint of corruption in the implementation of the programme in some States. But more importantly, the cards do not conform to the basic guidelines. It is instructive to go over the history of this footnote to understand how the government machinery functions when implementing off-the-shelf technologies in public schemes requiring large volumes of a given product. Indeed, like the case of the smart card in the transport sector, there are apparently other projects under the e-governance initiative, which bear evidence of rather dubious implementation. The smart card Apex Committee produced its first report, titled "National Standard for the Driving Licence and Vehicle Registration (Version 1.0)", in January 2001. Based on this, the MoRTH issued Version 1.0 guidelines. Following this, several States issued tenders for smart cards and some, like Gujarat, had already implemented the scheme in part. However, these were at variance with the guidelines mentioned above. Some of these, for example, had invited bids for the microprocessor cum optical strip smart card. This was apparently because of the lack of precise understanding of the technicalities by State administrations, coupled with the entry of multiple technologies into the country. To rectify the situation and in view of the technological developments, Version 2.0 of the standards were evolved both for back-end computerisation and for driving licences and VRCs. The detailed specifications of SCOSTA, as well as the software `Saathi' and `Vahan' (developed by the NIC), for back-end systems, formed part of the Version 2.0 guidelines. These were issued in October 2001, following which, in fact, some States withdrew their tender notifications. The Apex Committee had considered various available technologies - microprocessor, integrated-circuit memory and optical memory - in detail, particularly keeping in view the security aspect as well as the volume of information to be stored. For security, a Key Management System was specified for use with SCOSTA and it was also noted that the latter two technologies are pure memory storage technologies with no key-encryption mechanism unlike the microprocessor-based smart card. Accordingly, for enhanced security the committee recommended the use of microprocessor technology (with contacts). As regards data size, it was reckoned that the volume of information on a driving licence would be 1 kb and that on a VRC would be nearly 4 kb. The committee, therefore, added that since in driving licences and VRCs the data volume requirement is low, security considerations are paramount. It also noted that microprocessor technology existed with a memory range from 4 KB to 32 KB, and 62 KB memory was in the pipeline. Curiously enough, the MoRTH sought to issue some amendments to the Central Motor Vehicle Rules concerning the smart card scheme for driving licences and VRCs and a draft notification (GSR 42(E)) was accordingly issued in January 2003, inviting public comments. This contained a draft version of the note (reproduced in box) and its import was essentially the same, which would virtually nullify the Apex Committee's detailed standards. In July 2003, the MoRTH constituted an Expert Committee - which was headed by V.P. Bhatkar, Chairman, ETH Research Lab., Pune, and included M.J. Zarabi, Chairman and Managing Director, Semiconductor Complex Ltd., Chandigarh, and Veni Madhavan, a Computer Science Professor at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore - to resolve the ambiguities arising from technology variations as well as to make appropriate recommendations on the choice of technology that was non-proprietary, easily available, and suitable for field operations and easy handling, and the cost of which would be within the fee structure prescribed under the Rules. The Expert Committee also had to look into issues arising from the draft notification. Strangely enough, the Expert Committee chairman's report too took an open-ended position with regard to technology choice, contrary to the Apex Committee's recommendation. This was done apparently to accommodate evolving technologies, such as contact and contact-less (using wireless) `dual-interface' cards and larger storage capacity cards, such as optical strip, for multiple applications. However, Zarabi gave a dissenting note to the Chairman's report in November 2003. Veni Madhavan, however, declined to comment. But some people in the computer science community question the MoRTH's wisdom of appointing a person with private interests as the chairman of a committee on matters of public interest. In his dissenting letter, commenting on the note in the gazette notification, Zarabi said: "The words `any other information storage technology' opens up a Pandora's box. This addition is being exploited for the backdoor entry of optical strip as part of the standard, which technology had been... discarded by the Apex Committee." This footnote, he said, "may cascade into a serious issue of induction of proprietary technology and inter-operability issues, besides encumbering the public at large with costs attached to a monopoly source of supply and also risking the future and current implementation at the hands of a single vendor, all of which is against public policy, public interest and national security". He observed that no process of standards definition and certification procedure existed for optical strip or any other storage technology other than the microprocessor smart card. For the same reason, he said that the report's reference to other technologies in any form would run counter to the efforts made for SCOSTA. "If a smart card and optical technology or any other medium is put together on the same card," he said, "it will lead to ambiguity as well as problems of certification by the NIC." Because, one machine readable zone (MRZ) on the card is open and certified by the NIC and other MRZ in the other medium is proprietary and patented technology, the patent being held by Drexler Corporation, U.S.A. He pointed out that since SCOSTA specified only the standards for microprocessor, optical strip is not compliant with SCOSTA specifications. "We do not recognise optical strip cards and their use is completely unjustified," pointed out Rajat Moona, a Computer Science Professor at IIT-K who was associated with the development of SCOSTA. The hand-held terminals and field infrastructure specified by the Apex Committee, Zarabi said, also did not support optical strips and these required special hardware, which was neither specified nor standardised thus making field operability difficult. In the case of optical strip, in fact, according to him, read and write hardware was yet to be designed for mass use. He added that any ambiguity in the technology, if allowed, would push up the costs of the plastic card, and optical strip, being proprietary, is not available freely and is available only at higher monopolistic prices. Patent rights (USPTO No. 6390130) were held by Drexler Corp. and there are about 94 patents, which have been reserved for optical technology, making it unavailable for further indigenous development, Zarabi pointed out. The technology is licensed through Drexler's 100 per cent subsidiary, Laser Card Corporation, U.S., to various companies which only had sales rights in specified regions. The chairman's report, of course, overruled all of Zarabi's contentions, his objection to optical strip technology, in particular. However, Bhatkar endorsed his point about proprietary technologies and said that this could be ensured by requiring that "ISO or other well recognised international standards be complied with". Accordingly, he listed a set of ISO standards, which, according to him, were applicable to optical memory cards. But the point to be emphasised is that, even if ISO standards for these were evolving and could be applied, these had not been specified for use with SCOSTA and the NIC had not evolved standardised tests for these either. More important, the issue of security of optical storage still remained and Bhatkar did not address this crucial issue. Bhatkar, therefore, recommended not a removal of the gazetted footnote but an amendment to it to the effect that the other storage technologies must conform to the relevant ISO or other international standards. But curiously enough, Bhatkar's amendments to the footnote were ignored and Alok Rawat, Joint Secretary in the MoRTH in August 2004, issued the final notification GSR 513(E) without any reference to international standards for the optical strip. Speaking to Frontline on authorisation from Union Minister for Transport T.R. Baalu, Rawat said that the Centre had taken this step because several State governments had demanded additional capacity. While a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card would have easily met any additional capacity that may be required by individual States, the note has been carefully worded to defeat that very purpose. The note says: "The microprocessor chip shall not carry any other information not prescribed for the purpose." So, even if the microprocessor had enough additional memory, it could not be used for any other application that may be envisaged, say one's National ID, for which the government has already initiated a pilot project for 3.2 million people in 13 regions across the country. So what is the huge additional capacity doing in the transport sector cards? There is little doubt that it is not benefiting the average consumer. It is in this context that the Delhi government's IT Secretary's comment on "vendor-driven technologies" acquires worrying proportions. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 21 21:57:10 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:27:10 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MoD uses counter-terrorism powers to spy on wounded soldiers Message-ID: <65be9bf40907210927q2a56a93cua117316bd49db421@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5854169/MoD-uses-counter-terrorism-powers-to-spy-on-wounded-soldiers.html MoD uses counter-terrorism powers to spy on wounded soldiers Hundreds of injured servicemen who submitted compensation claims have been secretly filmed by Ministry of Defence officers to check whether they are exaggerating or lying, it has emerged. Published: 7:00AM BST 18 Jul 2009 The secret surveillance of claimants is being carried out under the controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), originally intended to help the police and MI5 monitor terrorists in the UK. All injured servicemen and women who have begun the compensation process have been sent letters, via their solicitors, warning them that they could be filmed. It reads: "Claims are investigated thoroughly and can involve an assessment of the claimant's physical capability undertaken covertly by surveillance when necessary and proportionate." If there is suspicion of fraud, their case will be "routinely" passed on to the MoD police for investigation. Since April 2004, 284 servicemen have been covertly filmed, which represents about one per cent of the claims brought against the MoD, the department confirmed. Military commanders and soldiers wounded in action have called the practice a "national disgrace". Warren Ward, a former soldier who was wounded by a mortar bomb in Basra, said the letter had left him feeling "like a benefits cheat". "I'm not a scrounger. I did my duty as a soldier for my country," he said. Diane Dernie, mother of paratrooper Ben Parkinson who was left unable to walk or speak after sustaining horrific injuries in Afghanistan, said: "I can barely believe it. "We are talking about young men who are terribly maimed, or who see their friends killed and mangled and then have to clear up the remains. "I've seen these people make incredible efforts to get well again, yet the MoD is treating them as potential fraudsters – and for what?" Lord Guthrie, the retired Chief of the Defence Staff, also condemned the MoD's use of RIPA. "I find this extraordinary, but sadly it is rather typical of the attitude in the Ministry of Defence and Whitehall "I have never heard of such tactics before. I think it's a terribly unfortunate thing for the MoD to decide to do." It has recently been disclosed that local councils have been using RIPA powers, which allow covert filming, bugging and recruiting members of the public to act as "intelligence sources", provoking outrage. The MoD has defended its use, saying they only employ surveillance in a minority of cases where fraud is suspected, and have saved several million pounds of the defence budget in doing so. A spokesman said: "The MoD, like the insurance industry, is at risk of fraudulent claims. If, during the process of determining liability, evidence suggests that a claim has been exaggerated, surveillance may be used to verify details. It is used in less than one per cent of cases and should be of no concern to individuals with a legitimate claim." From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 00:00:10 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:00:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Applications: Dasra Social-Impact Professional Development Program Message-ID: Deadline extended to 31st July Excerpt: The nine-month mentorship and business planning program will enable its participants to scale their social enterprises. The goal is to spur each enterprise to dramatically increase its impact by developing skills in financial management, communications, human resources, and strategic planning - all vital for accessing funding to grow. http://www.social-impact.org/SocialImpact/Apply_Recommend/How_to_Apply.aspx From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 00:25:52 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:25:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ecological Intelligence: We need to take responsibility for what we buy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *We need to take responsibility for what we buy* Daniel Goleman, author of *Emotional Intelligence* and *Social Intelligence*, says we need to work on our collective relationship with the planet. In his new book, *Ecological Intelligence*, he argues we can do that in part by making smarter shopping choices. *E.B. Boyd | June/July 2009 issue* *What is ecological intelligence?* "Ecological intelligence extends social intelligence—which is about our relationships with each other—to our relationships with the whole world, all ecosystems. It means we become intelligent about how our own activities—particularly the things we buy and use—impact nature." *Doesn’t that just mean buying things stamped "green"?* "Almost every time we buy something because we think it’s green, it’s not nearly as virtuous as we think. For example, I bought a T-shirt that was ‘organic,’ meaning the cotton was organic. But it’s still cotton. Cotton uses vast amounts of water. Plus almost all textile dyes are carcinogens. They’re dangerous to the people who dye the shirt. We need to think about the total picture, rather than just one thing." To read more: http://www.odemagazine.com/doc/64/daniel-goleman From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 09:18:27 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:18:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <865947.90603.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70907190034l460cc6a8leb85bd39379cff1a@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70907190058v6ac5fcech38f04955f9c11f3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a deeply disturbing book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the book and the journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges clearly is that for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years, Kashmir has lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the army. Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an army check post. The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the army truck moving in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him up and threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that even as we, the Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri driver, unarmed and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag him into a nearby orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming from the opposite direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The jawans backed off and the driver became more aggressive. The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the swagger of the conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped on the driver were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old niece burst into tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and assuage her fears. Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it is dangerous to have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which has grown up with that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it. Their instinct for survival has been dulled by years of brutality and violence. They are no longer afraid to die. Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think so. Can peace be brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real or percieved oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets protesting. Isn't that democracy? Regards, Meera On 7/19/09, Inder Salim wrote: > > Dear All > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar names throwing > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my own bit, as > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue is alive as much > as it was in 1947. > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who stood like a wall > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he not been so > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another Swat, or worse > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. Where Gandhi > failed to curb the large scale communal violence Sheikh succeeded in > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted good for Kashmiris > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid by Indian > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord which obviously > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead bone, which is > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to eat the Indian > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson Mandela of this > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own complacency led him to > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most probably Shikeh > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the luxuries of power > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in Kashmir is less > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, and as reports > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > The question, now is that who are these unfortunate people who > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in the valley. > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good thing that it is > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. But, on the > other hand it has done nothing to understand the Kashmiri sentiments. > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May be British > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but very little is said > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank cheque in his > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew that people in > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. But Sheikh > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned Sheikhs dream into > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments were not > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani line on Kashmir > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the ‘Pakistani line’ > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were numerous other > political representatives. It was war against Indian face in the > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, and wanted > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then Kashmirs, which they > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads fighting each other. > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, but at the cost > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or without a cause. > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the same coalition > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in 1989. A simple > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which is compounded > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and every roof top. > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of freedom, since both > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. Quite boring. > > There are many reasons why a particular community turns > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ the cold war ’ > tactics which gave birth to this monster called fundamentalism. Now we > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed state. > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has become more > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not a healthy sign, > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the same time. For > example, devastation of the environment is one thing which can white > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on earth will be the > issue. > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of living emerged. > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of an average > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the masses? How to > talk sustainability in the present without any compromise on their > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge before > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may be by looking into > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather than picking up > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But life is not a > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > With love and regards > is > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of AFSpA.Nobody can ensure > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring terrorism because its > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the UN resolution India > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of referendum in the light of > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to tame.Its a highly organised > criminal mafia which has full support of the United States > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in itself but its nothing > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens as canon fodder to > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an institution in power,one > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from Kashmir.In my opinion > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in Kashmir is a stable > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > wrote: > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self Determination > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > >> Dear Rahul, > >> Would not any war time settlement like this be unstable? > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for the 'new > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such issues only keep > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > >> Regards, > >> Subhrodip. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: Rahul Asthana > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > >> subhrodip sengupta > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > >> Determination > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Subhrodip, > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed Kashmir up.AFSpA > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop sending > >> terrorists . The question is what role should you or I > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support or oppose a > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There are people > >> like Junaid who are not really worried about how many > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri nationalism is as much > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is to those who > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of self > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not the right of > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly submit that we > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism and should > >> advocate the course of action that results in resolving the > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only speak for myself. > >> Thanks > >> Rahul > >> > >> > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > >> wrote: > >> > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and Self > >> Determination > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > >> > Dear all, > >> > This problem shall continue if the posession of land > >> for > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer laws of > >> inheritance > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased out of > >> > > >> > it........................................................................................................ > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted either by Indian > >> or by > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated and quite > >> > interesting discussions, one question I'd like to > >> > ask..................................... > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a limited extent > >> of our > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects where they are > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I shouldnt rape poorer > >> Gori > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a case of dire > >> racism. > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak ................ > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not India or Pak or > >> Bg > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets so sensitive > >> and > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper readings > >> suggests it > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed act, army > >> appearing > >> > in every domain of social life and so the anti-army > >> forces, > >> > that makes these people crave for a different kind of > >> > independance, from the state which doent want to > >> repeal the > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a political > >> struggle, > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt the peace > >> option not > >> > recognised? My reading of this however would not be > >> much > >> > different from Lallu time railways or Maharasthra's > >> Son of > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we could retain > >> > > >> > kashmir.................................................................... > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > >> > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no case > >> for > >> > self-determination > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi Junaid, > >> > There is a difference between a colonized body of land > >> and > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > >> > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of a nation than > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, you are > >> defining > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of solidarity based > >> on > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is that correct? > >> > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only occupying > >> nation in > >> > Kashmir or do > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as well? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Rahul > >> > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > From: Junaid > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir has no > >> case for > >> > self-determination > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 AM > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > >> > > fighting for its liberation. National > >> > > liberation struggles work on the democratic > >> principle > >> > of > >> > > self-determination.. This principle of > >> > self-determination > >> > > does not > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN or any other > >> > > multinational document. > >> > > But on the contrary what is enshrined in the UN > >> > Charter > >> > > emerged from > >> > > an ethical realisation that self-determination is > >> the > >> > > foundational > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which in turn is the > >> bed > >> > rock > >> > > for peace. > >> > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle was widely > >> > accepted. > >> > > And it proved > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the decolonization > >> > movement, > >> > > which > >> > > resulted in the victory for the anti-colonial > >> > struggles in > >> > > the Indian > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. (On the > >> betrayal of > >> > > anti-colonial > >> > > struggle though, I might add quickly what Faiz > >> said > >> > "Yeh > >> > > woh seher to > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or what Mehjoor > >> spoke > >> > when he > >> > > lamented > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a few > >> doors..."). > >> > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been arguing for the > >> same > >> > for > >> > > ever, but > >> > > colonizers almost ended up annihilating each > >> other > >> > before > >> > > realising > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It took a lot of > >> > struggle > >> > > and sacrifice > >> > > from the colonised people to make it happen. > >> > Colonisers > >> > > tried every > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the eventuality. > >> > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has "a case for" > >> > > self-determination or > >> > > not. There is no court that can decide that. At > >> least > >> > it is > >> > > not > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if "Indian > >> > nationalists" > >> > > think they > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to believe that > >> Indian > >> > > nationalists for > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a religious > >> > faith--and in > >> > > fact is a > >> > > religious faith--would come around and change > >> their > >> > opinion > >> > > on it-- > >> > > least through discussion. What is important is > >> that > >> > > Kashmiris think > >> > > that they have the case, and a need for freedom > >> and > >> > > independence. It > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 years of > >> > struggle--first > >> > > against Dogra > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian rule--the case > >> in > >> > the > >> > > eyes of > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than ever. > >> > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start like pebbles > >> > rolling > >> > > down the > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. More and more > >> > people, > >> > > young people, > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly than generations > >> > before > >> > > them) feel > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning to them. More > >> and > >> > more > >> > > they > >> > > understand this idea of being Kashmiri as > >> running > >> > counter > >> > > to any > >> > > individual or group affliation with the idea of > >> India. > >> > The > >> > > idea of > >> > > India is understood as something that stops them > >> from > >> > > being > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is utterly > >> unacceptable > >> > to > >> > > them. The idea > >> > > of independence has grown exponentially since > >> Sheikh > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for independence > >> when it > >> > > couples itself > >> > > with the need for it, is unstoppable. > >> > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more like a national > >> > solidarity > >> > > based on > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, instead of > >> feeding > >> > on > >> > > the notions > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the chauvinist idea of > >> "the > >> > chosen > >> > > people". > >> > > Within the current global discourse of "Islam", > >> > however, > >> > > Kashmiris too > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, which in the > >> > long-run > >> > > does not have > >> > > drastic consequences though. It will wane. > >> > Islamophobia > >> > > cannot hold. > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims all over > >> the > >> > world > >> > > which > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend with as > >> enemies. > >> > > Anti-Hindu > >> > > sentiment in some sections of Kashmiris is not > >> only a > >> > > result of the > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule but also of > >> how > >> > the > >> > > Indian > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get entwined. > >> For > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > >> > > of struggle against an overtly Hindu Dogra rule, > >> and > >> > then > >> > > the transfer > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu India, makes > >> the > >> > > imperial-territorial > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a symbolic foe. There > >> are > >> > no > >> > > doctrinal > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus and Muslims > >> can't sit > >> > and > >> > > live > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, they have. No > >> one > >> > in > >> > > Srinagar > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's green flag on > >> the > >> > red > >> > > fort. > >> > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the Fourth World. A > >> world > >> > which > >> > > is utterly > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the Third > >> World--which by > >> > > mimicking the > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and substance looks and > >> > behaves > >> > > like former > >> > > colonial countries. > >> > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that "Azadi" will be > >> given > >> > on a > >> > > platter. It > >> > > will be taken through everyday anti-occupation > >> > struggle by > >> > > Kashmiris. > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have suffered much > >> but > >> > there > >> > > is very > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle intensifies, so > >> will > >> > > oppression. But > >> > > that will be the undoing og the occupation. > >> India > >> > will > >> > > leave Kashmir > >> > > because there is no other way. I only hope it > >> doesn't > >> > > happen at the > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls the entire > >> > subcontinent. > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >> the > >> > > city. > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > > >> > > >> > Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> > city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > >> > >> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >> city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Meera From tasveerghar at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 11:08:25 2009 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:08:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] More on religious pluralism: devotional images outside Imambaras Message-ID: <484c1050907212238p22b2d3f6l9dc1d7a24f5f6b60@mail.gmail.com> Dear friends In the ongoing series of visual essays on the theme of “Kaleidoscopic Sites and Sights: The Printed Visual Culture/s of Religious Pluralism”, we at Tasveer Ghar present our next virtual gallery visual essay: Outside the Imambara: the Circulation of Devotional Images in Greater Lucknow By Subah Dayal and Suzanne Schulz http://tasveerghar.net/cmsdesk/essay/76/index.html In this project, Subah and Suzanne situate popular practices related to pilgrimage and public rituals in the context of coexisting Muslim pilgrimage sites of greater Lucknow. This visual essay seeks to provide documentary and descriptive detail from major Shi’i and Sufi shrines in the Lucknow region (Hazrat Abbas, Agha Baqar, Khamman Pir and Dewa Sharif) in an attempt to demonstrate the relationship between the shrine and its souvenirs and to focus on shared uses and modes of circulation of these images. In the same series, our previous visual essay was: Tiled Gods Appear on Mumbai's Streets By Amit Madheshiya and Shirley Abraham Pictures of gods and goddesses on the street walls stop you from urinating in public spaces, and much more… http://www.tasveerghar.net/cmsdesk/essay/51/index.html You are welcome to visit these and other exciting visual essays on India’s popular visual culture on Tasveer Ghar, and leave your comments at the forms given at the end of each essay. Thanks and enjoy the house of images The Tasveer Ghar team -- http://www.tasveerghar.net (Kindly inform us if you don't wish to receive newsletters and updates from Tasveer Ghar) From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 11:20:23 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:20:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [humanrights-movement:1789] a reading of kolakowski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f9180970907212250o4a66e804u47aa5c1d689a8047@mail.gmail.com> '..He once wrote “Religion is man’s way of accepting life as an inevitable defeat.”..' '.. For him the cultural role of philosophy was “not to deliver the truth but to build the spirit of truth, and this means never to let the inquisitive energy of mind go to sleep, never to stop questioning what appears to be obvious and definitive, always to defy the seemingly intact resources of common sense, always to suspect that there might be “another side” in what we take for granted, and never to allow us to forget that there are questions that lie beyond the legitimate horizon of science and are nonetheless crucially important to the survival of humanity as we know it.” This seems like an easy sentiment to articulate, but Kolakowski reminded us of what the stakes are in living up to it...' ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hormazd Date: Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:31 PM Subject: [humanrights-movement:1789] a reading of kolakowski To: humanrights-movement at googlegroups.com Resisting the arrogance of intellect * Pratap Bhanu Mehta * *Tags : Leszek Kolakowski, Stalinism, Nazism, pratap bhanu mehta* *Posted:Tuesday , Jul 21, 2009 at 0243 hrs * * * Our generation, mercifully, has little sense of what it means to philosophise as if the very existence of civilisation depended on it. But for thinkers writing under the shadow of two totalitarian catastrophes, both of which had intellectual support, the activity of thought had high stakes. One needed to dig deep into reservoirs of truth to mobilise resistance to the homicidal illusions of Stalinism. Nazism was morally abhorrent and begged for psychological and historical explanation. But at least at an intellectual level it posed less of a challenge. It had no pretensions to justice or high thought. Communism was more difficult. It was an emancipatory ideology, in some ways the culmination of the highest hopes for humanity. Yet it seemed to turn into its very opposite: sanctioning the worst forms of oppression in the name of emancipation. But it also posed a deeper puzzle. How could so many of the finest minds of the age be seduced by an illusion? How could a doctrine that was supposedly based on a stark realism, a critique of metaphysical flights of fancy, lead so many to lose their grip on reality? These concerns produced an astonishing burst of theorising. But one towering figure, who in many ways powerfully embodied the existential angst posed by these questions, was Leszek Kolakowski, who passed away last week. A former communist who became a leading Polish intellectual dissident in the sixties, Kolakowski was perhaps as influential in demolishing the hypocritical allures of Marxism as any. He is best known for his magisterial three volume Main Currents of Marxism. Unlike other great dissectors of communism, Kolakowski’s path seemed at first more obscure because it was located, not in the realm of history or smart literary and political observation, as for example was the case with Arendt and Aron. He came to his critique squarely from within philosophy, trying to examine intellectually how Marxism went from a promethean humanism to monstrous Stalinism. The book was a philosophical and rhetorical tour de force. It’s very first sentence, “Karl Marx was a German philosopher,” was a sly cutting down to size of the claims made on behalf of Marx. The account of Marx himself was not unsympathetic and acknowledged his greatness. The political importance of the book lay largely in the third volume, where his contemporary Marxists were pilloried. Marxists often found his arguments unfair, but in doing so often missed his central point. This was a point that he insistently raised, most powerfully in his decimation of the greatest Marxist intellectual of the time: Lukacs. He had describe Lukacs as “the most striking example in the twentieth century of what may be called the betrayal of reason by those whose profession is to use and defend it.” But this accusation was aimed at a much larger phenomenon: intellectuals who chose, to deny the reality of atrocity, in the face of their own romantic delusions. Even in more easy going times such as ours, this question has not become entirely irrelevant. But Kolakowski’s greatness lay in showing that this flight from reality was not a contingent aberration, but could arise from the brilliance of thought itself. Kolakowski who for most of his life in exile, worked at All Souls, Oxford and Chicago, published more than forty provocatively brilliant books. Like his Polish compatriot, the great poet Czeslaw Milosz he became increasingly uncomfortable with a certain self representation of modernity. He was a defender of a human instinct to transcendence. He thought that the unwillingness to acknowledge the possibility that we might not be the ground of our own being, led to a kind of self deification. This self deification could itself be a source of bondage. It has to be said, that in the end his sense of religion bore very much the hallmarks of Catholicism, with its great sense that pride was the ultimate sin. It was a defence of transcendence with a heavy heart. He once wrote “Religion is man’s way of accepting life as an inevitable defeat.” While he remained a powerful defender of liberal societies, he was not a conventional liberal. Marxism’s fatal flaw was an overreach of reason. But there was a danger that liberal democracies would refuse the use of reason. He despaired of a certain kind of intellectual levelling that was carried out in the name of modern politics, one that refused to make fine distinctions. Such levelling itself was dangerous for it also, in its own way threatened to obliterate the distinction between right and wrong. A tolerance that said, ‘anything goes’ would undermine its own foundations. Kolakowski had an ability to produce paragraphs of startling luminosity. Witness his riposte to the arrogance of intellect. “A modern philosopher who has never once suspected himself of being a charlatan must be such a shallow mind that his work is probably not worth reading.” As an undergraduate I accidentally ended up in lectures he was giving at All Souls. I mistakenly assumed the lectures would be on Marxism. But the lectures were on medieval philosophy. The clarity and verve with which he explained obscure sounding figures like, Duns Scotus and Pascal, had even a small group of nineteen year olds hooked and I stayed on for the term. Some of the material is in his extraordinary tour de force God Owes Us Nothing. The first half discusses the medieval argument for the persecution. It displayed Kolakowski’s skills in reconstructing arguments that are now politically unimaginable; the attraction of his work was that for the most part, he would not let you score easy intellectual victories over positions you disliked. The second half is a moving account of what he called “Pascal’s sad religion,” that seemed to encapsulate vividly humanity’s never ending doubt on the questions that were truly fundamental. He achieved almost all the high academic honours imaginable. For him the cultural role of philosophy was “not to deliver the truth but to build the spirit of truth, and this means never to let the inquisitive energy of mind go to sleep, never to stop questioning what appears to be obvious and definitive, always to defy the seemingly intact resources of common sense, always to suspect that there might be “another side” in what we take for granted, and never to allow us to forget that there are questions that lie beyond the legitimate horizon of science and are nonetheless crucially important to the survival of humanity as we know it.” This seems like an easy sentiment to articulate, but Kolakowski reminded us of what the stakes are in living up to it. *The writer is president, Centre for Policy Research* --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "humanrights movement" group. To post to this group, send email to humanrights-movement at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to humanrights-movement+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/humanrights-movement?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 11:40:44 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:40:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] History - Lalitaditya Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907212310j59022a14x289ff68b9f7d34ee@mail.gmail.com> Lalitaditya The Just, Mighty and Magnificent King of Kashmir (724-760 A.D.) Lalitaditya-also known as Muktapida-whose reign in Kashmir lasted from 724 to 760 A.D., was really a great king. During his reign Kashmir rose to such heights as she had never before, nor since has, known. When he came to the throne, the country was in a shocking condition as a result of the misrule of his brother but he brought peace, prosperity and national glory to the country. The illustrious king was the son of Raja Pratapaditya, the king of Kashmir and born of the "mistress of a fabulously wealthy and magnificent merchant whose wondrous beauty had attracted the attention of the king". Lalitaditya is known as a great warrior and conqueror. Like Alexander the Great, Lalitaditya had the ambition of conquering the whole world and his reign of thirty seven years is noted for his many expeditions and conquests. Lalitaditya gave wide extension to his dominions. He forced the king of Kanauj and all other chiefs in the hills of the Punjab to submit; he was victorious over the Turks and the peoples of the Central Asia, returning after twelve years to drive the Tibetans from Baltistan. The chronicler is of the opinion that his army was chiefly recruited from the north and most of his generals including his commander-in-chief, Chankunya, also came from the same region. Bamzai, the historian, says: "That it appears that due to the decline of the T’ang rule, the Kashmir ruler attracted many an adventurer and Lalitaditya was not slow in taking advantage of their experience and martial abilities. For example, it is clear that Chankunya must have acquired fame as a military commander even before he joined the services of Lalitaditya since he bore the Chinese title of Can-Kiin-General". Lalitaditya's first expedition was towards the kingdom of Kanauj which was ruled by Yasoverman. The latter could not oppose the brave armies of Lalitaditya and submitted peacefully but during the drafting of the final treaty he created hitches that resulted in resumption of the hostilities and dethronement of Yasoverman. Finally, the whole of his territory was brought under the direct rule of the Kashmir king. After this victory Lalitaditya subdued the entire of Gaudas (Bengal) and the southern territories of India including the seven Konkans. In the west also he subdued the entire territory of Dwarika. A call for help reached Lalitaditya from Deccan in Cir. A.D. 735-36. Indira I Rashtrakuta had abducted the Chalukya princess, Bhavagana from Khaira (Gujarat) and forced her to marry him. After his death in 735 A. D. the Ratta queen was soon in difficulties. With the secret connivance Lalitaditya crossed the passes into the Deccan without resistance, found Chalukyas friendly allies and overran the Rashtrakuta territories. Karka II (Kakka Kayya) of Lata (Southern Gujarat), Kathiawar, Malwa and Marwar, shaking the tottering power of the Maitrakas of Valabhi and of the Mauryas of Chittorgarh. Lalitaditya turned his attention towards the north of Kashmir. He led the victorious army through Dardistan to the Tukhara country (Turkhistan). He gained easy victory, for the Chinese Empire under which they had come was falling to pieces due to the end of the T'ang rule and the internal civil wars and dissensions. Lalitaditya then undertook the subjugation of the Tibetans. Bamzai says, "Rajtarangini mentions a few expeditions, but apart from the definite conclusion that Ladakh and some western provinces were brought under the sway of the Kashmir king, the complete overthrow of the Tibetans is rather doubtful". Lalitaditya and his soldiers longed for more conquests and left for Central Asia. His people besought him to come back but he died in Turkistan after a reign of nearly forty years. Kalhana mentions two legends about his death. According to one version, he committed suicide in order to escape being captured when separated from his army and was blocked on a mountainous route. According to the second version, Lalitaditya perished through excessive snowfall in Aryanaka (modern Iran). No doubt, the conquests of Lalitaditya are preponderant but even then he would rank among the great kings because of his great architectural works, his intense love of learning and patronage of scholars and his humane and secular outlook. Lalitaditya and his queens founded numerous towns. He built the towns of Suniscatapur, Darpitapur, Phalapura and Parontsa. The first two towns no longer exist but Phalapura may now be traced to a village near Shadipura. Parontsa town is now called Poonch. A big Vihara and a Buddhist temple was built by him at Hushkapura (modern Ushkur). Lalitaditya is said to have founded a town at Lokpunya (modern Lokabhavan) on the Anantnag-Verinag road. But the most remarkable constructions of Lalitaditya which have made his name immortal and brought acknowledgement to the architectural talents of Kashmir, are the temple of Martand and the city of Parihaspura. Among the great architectural wonders of the world Martand temple occupies an eminent place. It not only depicts the sublime architectural ability of Kashmir but is "built on the most sublime site occupied by any building in the world-finer far that of the site of the Parthenon, or the Taj or of St. Peters, or the Escurial-we may take it as the representative or rather the culmination of all the rest and by it we must judge the Kashmiri people at their best". The greatness of Lalitaditya as a builder is established by his founding the city of Parihaspura, near modern Shadipura. Kalhana describes at length the series of great temples built by the king at this town. "The extensive though much inspired ruins with which I was able to identify these structures at the site of Paraspura, show sufficiently that Kalhana's account of their magnificence was not exaggerated", says Stein. The valley had been till then subjected to floods as deposits of silts and rocks would block the flow of water of the river at Baramulla. Lalitaditya got the river cleared of the slit and the water flowed quickly and in this way the level ofwater in other parts of the valley became low. The vast areas of swamps were reclaimed for irrigation. He raised bunds round the low-lying lands and also built numerous irrigation canals. The result was that the production of crops increased which in turn increased the prosperity of the people. Lalitaditya's greatness is also depicted by his secular outlook. Although he was a follower of Hinduism, he showed equal respect for Buddhism and other cults. He founded many viharas and monasteries for Buddhists. His commander-in-ch ief was a Buddhist and so were many of his other officials. He was a patron of learning and scholarship and many learned persons from many lands adorned his court. He brought from Kanauj the two famous poets Bhavabhuti and Vakpatiraja and gave them honour and installed them in his capital in Kashmir. Though he was a great conqueror and philanthropist but much has been imagined and has been passed down as fact. It is said that he had built a gigantic cauldron from which one hundred thousand men could be fed each day, which seems to be preposterous. But he had another side of his character. When intoxicated he would issue the cruelest orders. In a fit of drunken madness he ordered that the beautiful city that Pravarsena had built should be set on fire and he stood and rocked with crazy laughter as he watched the city of Srinagar go up in flames. But luckily his wise ministers had burnt heaps of straw and grass instead of the houses and thereby had saved the city. Before his departure from Kashmir on his last expedition, from which he never returned, he left for his subjects certain instructions which are preserved in The Rajatar. He warned them against civil wars and cautioned them about the upkeep in both repairs and provisions of their forts. He laid down laws for those of his subjects who lived in the mountains, that discipline must be strict, that the cultivators should never be left with more grain than they could consume in one year and that they should not have more cattle or more ploughs than was absolutely necessary, since this would result in their covering and taking that ground which belonged to their neighbours. The king must never tolerate nepotism among his officers": The editor of the Keys to Kashmir says: "The glorious reign of Lalitaditya served as a beacon light to the Kashmiris of later generations, particularly during the many depressing days of political subjugation." Source: The Rich Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir Studies in Art, Architecture, History and Culture of the Region By Prof. Somnath Wakhlu From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 14:24:38 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:24:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MoD uses counter-terrorism powers to spy on wounded soldiers In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907210927q2a56a93cua117316bd49db421@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907210927q2a56a93cua117316bd49db421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907220154t214f1debn6d1daab1831b8ef5@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, and all in the list, I do not understand your apprehension that if the authorities verify the claim, genuineness of a wounded soldier, it should be seen in any other light.? Instances are too many in the society, where the poverty alleviation programmes make the richer more rich, BPL cards are held by land lords and the rich and powerful, but not by genuine poor. Individuals join terror action, not for faith, but for the wealth such actions yield if not to them, to their dependents. With emphasis on material aspects of life, even intellectuals mortgage and prostitute their wares of intellectuals property for wealth. In the guise of advocacy of rights, duties are often given shortshift, in the circumstances even Taha posting his personal prejudice against ID cards, is like saying we do not want any laws, as these aws are abused.! Laws will be abused, were abused and will be, are being abused, but it does not mean there should not be any societal laws and we should live with might is right as credo for living.?If the system has failed and has flaws, it is because of few individuals who are escaping the clutches of laws, some who use power to do so. But more individuals have been able to live , live with dignity, because of the societal laws. Regards. Rajen. On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5854169/MoD-uses-counter-terrorism-powers-to-spy-on-wounded-soldiers.html > > > MoD uses counter-terrorism powers to spy on wounded soldiers > Hundreds of injured servicemen who submitted compensation claims have > been secretly filmed by Ministry of Defence officers to check whether > they are exaggerating or lying, it has emerged. > > Published: 7:00AM BST 18 Jul 2009 > > The secret surveillance of claimants is being carried out under the > controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), > originally intended to help the police and MI5 monitor terrorists in > the UK. > > All injured servicemen and women who have begun the compensation > process have been sent letters, via their solicitors, warning them > that they could be filmed. > > It reads: "Claims are investigated thoroughly and can involve an > assessment of the claimant's physical capability undertaken covertly > by surveillance when necessary and proportionate." > > If there is suspicion of fraud, their case will be "routinely" passed > on to the MoD police for investigation. > > Since April 2004, 284 servicemen have been covertly filmed, which > represents about one per cent of the claims brought against the MoD, > the department confirmed. > > Military commanders and soldiers wounded in action have called the > practice a "national disgrace". > > Warren Ward, a former soldier who was wounded by a mortar bomb in > Basra, said the letter had left him feeling "like a benefits cheat". > > "I'm not a scrounger. I did my duty as a soldier for my country," he said. > > Diane Dernie, mother of paratrooper Ben Parkinson who was left unable > to walk or speak after sustaining horrific injuries in Afghanistan, > said: "I can barely believe it. > > "We are talking about young men who are terribly maimed, or who see > their friends killed and mangled and then have to clear up the > remains. > > "I've seen these people make incredible efforts to get well again, yet > the MoD is treating them as potential fraudsters – and for what?" > > Lord Guthrie, the retired Chief of the Defence Staff, also condemned > the MoD's use of RIPA. > > "I find this extraordinary, but sadly it is rather typical of the > attitude in the Ministry of Defence and Whitehall > > "I have never heard of such tactics before. I think it's a terribly > unfortunate thing for the MoD to decide to do." > > It has recently been disclosed that local councils have been using > RIPA powers, which allow covert filming, bugging and recruiting > members of the public to act as "intelligence sources", provoking > outrage. > > The MoD has defended its use, saying they only employ surveillance in > a minority of cases where fraud is suspected, and have saved several > million pounds of the defence budget in doing so. > > A spokesman said: "The MoD, like the insurance industry, is at risk of > fraudulent claims. If, during the process of determining liability, > evidence suggests that a claim has been exaggerated, surveillance may > be used to verify details. It is used in less than one per cent of > cases and should be of no concern to individuals with a legitimate > claim." > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 14:42:43 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:42:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (National Identity Card ) A digital Pandora's box - 153 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907210653l3d38b746va13cf5b50a805c30@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907210653l3d38b746va13cf5b50a805c30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907220212j42b6ae0eq60fdbc04d18ba5e0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, I have been reading your post on this subject and I feel you are too much pre-occupied with individual "rights" and not their duties to the society. Humans being social animals, has to live in society, society frames rules to safeguard the best interest of maximum individuals in the society.These rules are flouted by some, but that does not mean there should not be any rules to see that the society can live in peace and harmony. The rules are broken by those with power, power of money, wealth, status and back up of like minded who love to break the rules.Naxals for example are initially those who sought better facilities and oppression by the "state" to be eliminated, but their leaders are those who live parasyte life on extorted money, while cadres indulge in killings of innocents, police, and civilians who for them are projected as enemies. Terror indulging individuals are there in business of terror not for any faith or religion, but the pwer that is gained by such acts, thus yielding more wealth for the terror and posh life with such wealth, while a few die in acts, majoroty of individuals live with material comforts. If the system does not attend to inclusive growth, by such means as laws, id cards so that the benefits reach the deserving, we have only us, individuals to blame. As a corollary, the privacy is breached for greater good of society, so be it. What is there to hide when now, we can discuss what happens in bedroms of individuals is being discussed in the dining room and drawing rooms and on tv channels.?As if the sex was not existent, coitus is not known, anal sex or variations wee unknown, the way today media lives on trp of "educating " the young on variety of spicy life.!Gays and lesbians lived their joys in the privacy of the bedrooms but to bring it on he streets is the real joke of 21st century.When this is enjoyed, what privacy is breached by id cards when individuals are open about their private life.? regards. Rajen. On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear All, > > Here's a report published by The Hindu some years ago. MNIC/UIDC are > smart cards, which are run on Smart Card Operating System for > Transport Applications or SCOSTA based software. > > We need to pay attention to this report, particularly to two aspects > of the process through which consensus around technology of smart card > appears to have been achieved. > > The first one relates to the social dimension of the consensus > building exercise carried out by the government of India at the > national level. In this regard the report suggests, that there seems > to be wide spread disagreement amongst so called technical experts who > gave a green signal to this technology. > > Excerpt- > > Strangely enough, the Expert Committee chairman's report too took an > open-ended position with regard to technology choice, contrary to the > Apex Committee's recommendation. This was done apparently to > accommodate evolving technologies, such as contact and contact-less > (using wireless) `dual-interface' cards and larger storage capacity > cards, such as optical strip, for multiple applications. However, > Zarabi gave a dissenting note to the Chairman's report in November > 2003. Veni Madhavan, however, declined to comment. But some people in > the computer science community question the MoRTH's wisdom of > appointing a person with private interests as the chairman of a > committee on matters of public interest. > > Then there were cautious views emanating from the then officers > representing the GOI too particularly around the issue of > "vendor-driven technologies" which is perhaps interpreted in the > official GOI jargon as G-B (Government-to-Business relationship) or in > terms of official Sarkaari rhetoric as maybe 'Bhaagidari'. > > Excerpt- > > IN a panel discussion at the recent Smart Card Tech-India 2005 > conference, with the theme "National ID Card - The Foundation of Trust > in e-Governance", Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and > Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioned against > "vendor-driven technologies". > > The second dimension relates to the technological compatibility of the > card itself. The report suggests that there maybe violations and > misinterpretations arising from the use prescribed by the so called > 'Expert Committee' insofar as a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card is > concerned. > > Excerpt- > > While a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card would have easily met any > additional capacity that may be required by individual States, the > note has been carefully worded to defeat that very purpose. The note > says: "The microprocessor chip shall not carry any other information > not prescribed for the purpose." So, even if the microprocessor had > enough additional memory, it could not be used for any other > application that may be envisaged, say one's National ID, for which > the government has already initiated a pilot project for 3.2 million > people in 13 regions across the country. > > Some questions related to this issue- > > Why is only SCOSTA software used for national identity card? What > other technologies were considered? Why were they rejected? ON what > grounds? > > Did the GOI of India did any cost benefit analysis on using the SCOSTA > technology, if yes the what were the detailed findings? > > Who owns the patents for this technology? What are the conditions of > use of this technology? How is the issue of inter-operability dealt > with here? > > On what grounds did people like M.J. Zarabi, Chairman and Managing > Director, Semiconductor Complex Ltd., Chandigarh, gave a dissenting > note? Why did Veni Madhavan, a Computer Science Professor at the > Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore declined to present a comment > to the expert committee? Why was Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information > Technology and Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioning > against "vendor-driven technologies"? What were his reasons? > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20050812003902500.htm&date=fl2216/&prd=fline& > > SPOTLIGHT > > A digital Pandora's box > > R. RAMACHANDRAN > VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN > > The extra capacity added to the new smart card for car-owners gives no > added benefits but has pushed up the cost. > > IN a panel discussion at the recent Smart Card Tech-India 2005 > conference, with the theme "National ID Card - The Foundation of Trust > in e-Governance", Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and > Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioned against > "vendor-driven technologies". To many members of the audience, it was > obvious what he was referring to. It was the legacy of the choice of > an inappropriate technology made by the Delhi administration of 2003 > in the introduction of IT in the road transport sector. Today, he > finds himself in the embarrassing situation of having to implement it > even though he disapproves of it. > > An important component of the much-hyped induction of IT in the > transport sector in many States - as part of the government's > nationwide e-governance initiative - is the smart card-based driving > licence and vehicle registration certificate (VRC). But, as the > process of implementing this scheme gets under way in many States, one > is also witnessing a number of petitions in the courts against the > choice and induction of the technology. And in many instances, the > cases have been dragged into the Supreme Court. > > As regards the technology, the main contentious issue relates to the > respective governments' invitation for bids for the supply of simple > microprocessor-based smart cards (with a minimum memory of 4 KB) for > driving licences, and an optical smart card which has an optical strip > (of memory 1.5 MB or more) in addition to the microprocessor chip (of > 4 KB memory or more) for VRCs. Petitioners have contended that this is > in violation of the guidelines issued by the Central Ministry of Road > Transport and Highways (MoRTH) under the Central Motor Vehicles Act > and associated Rules. Since these only required that driving licences > and VRCs should have a minimum 4 kb memory on a microprocessor chip, > the States had no legal authority to insist upon an additional feature > like an optical strip. > > The basic guidelines issued by the Centre were: uniformity across the > country; readability throughout the country; inter-operability across > States; and non-proprietary or open-source technology that would allow > indigenous modification or development. Operationally, these > translated into conformity to ISO standards (ISO-7816-1, 2, 3), which > ensured uniformity and non-proprietary technology; standardised > hand-held terminals, which ensured readability everywhere; and > compliance to open source Smart Card Operating System for Transport > Applications (SCOSTA) software, based on ISO-7816-4, 8, 9 standards, > which ensured inter-operability. > > SCOSTA was developed by Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur, based > on specifications drawn up by an apex committee set up in 2000 by the > MoRTH - that included experts from the National Informatics Centre > (NIC) of the Ministry of Information Technology and Communications > (MCIT) and IIT-Kanpur, and representatives of industry. The SCOSTA > specifications were established to ensure that every card used for a > driving licence or a VRC is certified by a set of tests designated by > the NIC and IIT-K to ensure the usability of the smart card with the > same specifications by all States. > > The origin of the controversy can be traced to the MoRTH's gazette > notification GSR 513(E) of August 10, 2004, which set out the > specifications for smart cards as amendments to the Central Motor > Vehicle Rules. The footnote to the notification provided room for > (deliberate) arbitrariness and manipulation in the States' > interpretation of the Rules. There is, as a result, more than a hint > of corruption in the implementation of the programme in some States. > But more importantly, the cards do not conform to the basic > guidelines. > > It is instructive to go over the history of this footnote to > understand how the government machinery functions when implementing > off-the-shelf technologies in public schemes requiring large volumes > of a given product. Indeed, like the case of the smart card in the > transport sector, there are apparently other projects under the > e-governance initiative, which bear evidence of rather dubious > implementation. > > The smart card Apex Committee produced its first report, titled > "National Standard for the Driving Licence and Vehicle Registration > (Version 1.0)", in January 2001. Based on this, the MoRTH issued > Version 1.0 guidelines. Following this, several States issued tenders > for smart cards and some, like Gujarat, had already implemented the > scheme in part. However, these were at variance with the guidelines > mentioned above. Some of these, for example, had invited bids for the > microprocessor cum optical strip smart card. This was apparently > because of the lack of precise understanding of the technicalities by > State administrations, coupled with the entry of multiple technologies > into the country. > > To rectify the situation and in view of the technological > developments, Version 2.0 of the standards were evolved both for > back-end computerisation and for driving licences and VRCs. The > detailed specifications of SCOSTA, as well as the software `Saathi' > and `Vahan' (developed by the NIC), for back-end systems, formed part > of the Version 2.0 guidelines. These were issued in October 2001, > following which, in fact, some States withdrew their tender > notifications. > > The Apex Committee had considered various available technologies - > microprocessor, integrated-circuit memory and optical memory - in > detail, particularly keeping in view the security aspect as well as > the volume of information to be stored. For security, a Key Management > System was specified for use with SCOSTA and it was also noted that > the latter two technologies are pure memory storage technologies with > no key-encryption mechanism unlike the microprocessor-based smart > card. Accordingly, for enhanced security the committee recommended the > use of microprocessor technology (with contacts). > > As regards data size, it was reckoned that the volume of information > on a driving licence would be 1 kb and that on a VRC would be nearly 4 > kb. The committee, therefore, added that since in driving licences and > VRCs the data volume requirement is low, security considerations are > paramount. It also noted that microprocessor technology existed with a > memory range from 4 KB to 32 KB, and 62 KB memory was in the pipeline. > > Curiously enough, the MoRTH sought to issue some amendments to the > Central Motor Vehicle Rules concerning the smart card scheme for > driving licences and VRCs and a draft notification (GSR 42(E)) was > accordingly issued in January 2003, inviting public comments. This > contained a draft version of the note (reproduced in box) and its > import was essentially the same, which would virtually nullify the > Apex Committee's detailed standards. > > In July 2003, the MoRTH constituted an Expert Committee - which was > headed by V.P. Bhatkar, Chairman, ETH Research Lab., Pune, and > included M.J. Zarabi, Chairman and Managing Director, Semiconductor > Complex Ltd., Chandigarh, and Veni Madhavan, a Computer Science > Professor at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore - to resolve > the ambiguities arising from technology variations as well as to make > appropriate recommendations on the choice of technology that was > non-proprietary, easily available, and suitable for field operations > and easy handling, and the cost of which would be within the fee > structure prescribed under the Rules. The Expert Committee also had to > look into issues arising from the draft notification. > > Strangely enough, the Expert Committee chairman's report too took an > open-ended position with regard to technology choice, contrary to the > Apex Committee's recommendation. This was done apparently to > accommodate evolving technologies, such as contact and contact-less > (using wireless) `dual-interface' cards and larger storage capacity > cards, such as optical strip, for multiple applications. However, > Zarabi gave a dissenting note to the Chairman's report in November > 2003. Veni Madhavan, however, declined to comment. But some people in > the computer science community question the MoRTH's wisdom of > appointing a person with private interests as the chairman of a > committee on matters of public interest. > > In his dissenting letter, commenting on the note in the gazette > notification, Zarabi said: "The words `any other information storage > technology' opens up a Pandora's box. This addition is being exploited > for the backdoor entry of optical strip as part of the standard, which > technology had been... discarded by the Apex Committee." > > This footnote, he said, "may cascade into a serious issue of induction > of proprietary technology and inter-operability issues, besides > encumbering the public at large with costs attached to a monopoly > source of supply and also risking the future and current > implementation at the hands of a single vendor, all of which is > against public policy, public interest and national security". He > observed that no process of standards definition and certification > procedure existed for optical strip or any other storage technology > other than the microprocessor smart card. > > For the same reason, he said that the report's reference to other > technologies in any form would run counter to the efforts made for > SCOSTA. "If a smart card and optical technology or any other medium is > put together on the same card," he said, "it will lead to ambiguity as > well as problems of certification by the NIC." Because, one machine > readable zone (MRZ) on the card is open and certified by the NIC and > other MRZ in the other medium is proprietary and patented technology, > the patent being held by Drexler Corporation, U.S.A. > > He pointed out that since SCOSTA specified only the standards for > microprocessor, optical strip is not compliant with SCOSTA > specifications. "We do not recognise optical strip cards and their use > is completely unjustified," pointed out Rajat Moona, a Computer > Science Professor at IIT-K who was associated with the development of > SCOSTA. > > The hand-held terminals and field infrastructure specified by the Apex > Committee, Zarabi said, also did not support optical strips and these > required special hardware, which was neither specified nor > standardised thus making field operability difficult. In the case of > optical strip, in fact, according to him, read and write hardware was > yet to be designed for mass use. > > He added that any ambiguity in the technology, if allowed, would push > up the costs of the plastic card, and optical strip, being > proprietary, is not available freely and is available only at higher > monopolistic prices. Patent rights (USPTO No. 6390130) were held by > Drexler Corp. and there are about 94 patents, which have been reserved > for optical technology, making it unavailable for further indigenous > development, Zarabi pointed out. The technology is licensed through > Drexler's 100 per cent subsidiary, Laser Card Corporation, U.S., to > various companies which only had sales rights in specified regions. > > The chairman's report, of course, overruled all of Zarabi's > contentions, his objection to optical strip technology, in particular. > However, Bhatkar endorsed his point about proprietary technologies and > said that this could be ensured by requiring that "ISO or other well > recognised international standards be complied with". Accordingly, he > listed a set of ISO standards, which, according to him, were > applicable to optical memory cards. But the point to be emphasised is > that, even if ISO standards for these were evolving and could be > applied, these had not been specified for use with SCOSTA and the NIC > had not evolved standardised tests for these either. More important, > the issue of security of optical storage still remained and Bhatkar > did not address this crucial issue. > > Bhatkar, therefore, recommended not a removal of the gazetted footnote > but an amendment to it to the effect that the other storage > technologies must conform to the relevant ISO or other international > standards. But curiously enough, Bhatkar's amendments to the footnote > were ignored and Alok Rawat, Joint Secretary in the MoRTH in August > 2004, issued the final notification GSR 513(E) without any reference > to international standards for the optical strip. Speaking to > Frontline on authorisation from Union Minister for Transport T.R. > Baalu, Rawat said that the Centre had taken this step because several > State governments had demanded additional capacity. > > While a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card would have easily met any > additional capacity that may be required by individual States, the > note has been carefully worded to defeat that very purpose. The note > says: "The microprocessor chip shall not carry any other information > not prescribed for the purpose." So, even if the microprocessor had > enough additional memory, it could not be used for any other > application that may be envisaged, say one's National ID, for which > the government has already initiated a pilot project for 3.2 million > people in 13 regions across the country. > > So what is the huge additional capacity doing in the transport sector > cards? There is little doubt that it is not benefiting the average > consumer. It is in this context that the Delhi government's IT > Secretary's comment on "vendor-driven technologies" acquires worrying > proportions. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 16:20:02 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:20:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Proof of RAW terror acts given to India: Pak paper Message-ID: Proof of RAW terror acts given to India: Pak paper IANS 22 July 2009, 02:52pm IST ISLAMABAD: Pakistan says it has handed over to India evidence of the involvement of its external spy agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) in terrorist activities in this country, including the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore and on a police academy on the outskirts of the city earlier this year. Quoting sources, Dawn said on Wednesday a dossier containing proof of India's involvement in "subversive activities" in Pakistan was handed over by Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh during their meeting at Sharm el-Sheikh last week. The evidence has also been shared with the US and Afghanistan, with Kabul being asked to prevent the use of its territory for disruptive activities against Pakistan. "Although the information given to India is being kept highly secret, broad outlines of the dossier available with Dawn reveal details of Indian contacts with those involved in attacks on the Sri Lankan cricket team and the Manawan police station," the newspaper said. "Operatives of RAW who remained in touch with the perpetrators of the attacks have been identified and proof of their interaction have been attached," it added. A description of Indian arms and explosives used in the attack on the Sri Lankan team has been made part of the dossier, besides which the names and particulars of the perpetrators, who illegally entered Pakistan from India and joined their accomplices who had reached Lahore from Waziristan, have been mentioned, the report said. The dossier is also said to list the safe houses being run by RAW in Afghanistan where terrorists are trained and launched for missions in Pakistan. "The dossier also broadly covers the Indian connection in terror financing in Pakistan. A substantial part of the shared material deals with the Balochistan insurgency and Indian linkages with the insurgents, particularly Bramdagh Bugti, Burhan and Sher Khan," Dawn said. Photographs of their meetings with Indian operatives are part of the evidence, which also describes Bugti's visit to India and the meetings he had with Indian secret service personnel, it added. The dossier also mentions an India-funded training camp in Kandahar where Baloch insurgents, particularly those from Bugti clan, were being trained and provided arms and ammunition for sabotage activities in the Pakistani province. Dawn quoted its sources as saying that Manmohan Singh had agreed to "look into Pakistani claims" and to take "corrective action" if proven. He is said to have assured Mr Gilani that India is against interference in other countries and Pakistan's stability was important for them. "Yes, these issues were discussed," Foreign Office spokesperson Abdul Basit said when asked about the meeting. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/World/Pakistan/Proof-of-RAW-terror-acts-given-to-India-Pak-paper/articleshow/4807278.cms From vikash.sen at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 16:30:16 2009 From: vikash.sen at gmail.com (Bikash Ballabh Singh) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:30:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MP IAS caught with pants down: A villain or a victim? Message-ID: <25c340bd0907220400u59099cd5xc10e25632221271@mail.gmail.com> MP IAS caught with pants down: A villain or a victim? Abhishek Behl , merinews IF SOURCES are to be believed then the Madhya Pradesh IAS official, who was shown with his pants down in his office and later suspended by the Chief Minister for allegedly seeking sexual favours, could be a victim of a sting operation gone wrong rather than being the villain that he is being made out to be. Dnyaneshwar Patil, a 2003 batch IAS official was suspended by the MP Government after he was filmed and shown on television without his pants along with a junior official. People close to Patil and in the know of things are of the opinion that the IAS officer has been framed for not acquiescing to the unjust demands of a lobby of lower officials. They alleged that the entire sequence of filming Patil without his pants was planned and executed with an ulterior motive. However, there is also a section of establishment in Madhya Pradesh, which believes that there can be no smoke without fire. A top media person based in Bhopal averred that no doubt a conspiracy was hatched to trap the IAS official but there were some chinks in his armour as well, pointing to the obvious. Narrating the entire sequence of events on the fateful day inside the chamber of Dnyaneshwar Patil, a highly placed source pointed that the officer could have been a victim of a conspiracy. Rubbishing the allegations of sexual harassment against Patil, he said that the officer was well known for his honesty and was a stickler for rules and that proved to be his undoing. On the night of June 18, Dnyaneshwar Patil and his wife went to Rainbow hospital for treatment of their daughter around 8.30 pm. Thereafter, Patil was dropped at the Zila Parishad office around 9.10 pm and his wife went home to attend to the ailing child. At around 9.30 pm, the alleged victim, Sikandarabad village panchayat secretary Satish Chaukse (23) dropped in the Zila Parishad officer, where there were two home guards present along with a private vehicle’s driver. Chaukse was asked to come with the details of the expenditure made by the Self Helf Group (SHG), which is running the MDM in the Village school. Sources said that the Secretary to Chief Minister had asked Patil to do a cost analysis of the various items made by SHG, so that the system could be extended to Mahila Baal Vikas department in Madhya Pradesh and he had asked for a report by next morning. Thus, it became necessary to allow the Panchayat Secretary into the office where he was attending to regular file work. However, when Chaukse reached the chamber of Dnyaneshwar Patil and was asked to show the records of the MDM, he baulked and instead produced the records of National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREG). Chaukse, when asked, why he had not brought the MDM record, could not reply satisfactorily. He looked ill at ease and asked for a glass of water to drink. Sources said that Patil asked Chaukse to go out and fetch water for him too after repeatedly sounding the bell, which was not attended to. After some time, Chaukse returned and brought water for the IAS officer, who was now going through the records (Rozgaar Panchi) of NREG, which were also not proper and the officer admonished him for the same. Even as the IAS officer was going through records, Chaukse demanded that secretary of Bakaniya Gram Panchayat should be given regular pay scale, which Patil said was not possible as per law. Apparently angered by the refusal, Chaukse is alleged to have threatened the official and demanded regular scales for all secretaries. Patil, however, said that regularisation depended on good work and the secretaries will again be given a chance next year as per provisions. As the discussion heated up, Patil asked Chaukse to leave the room and went to the attached toilet in his room to attend the nature's call. The real drama, sources said, unfolded here as soon as Patil went inside the toilet, Chaukse started shouting 'Bachao, Bachao' loudly. Hearing the commotion a worried Patil opened the toilet door to see what had happened outside. As soon as the door was opened, Chaukse, who was in his undergarments and shoes pulled open the door and barged into the toilet. Immediately, thereafter, Chaukse called the media men, who were waiting outside the cabin. Though Patil's cabin had no lock, the media preferred to stay outside till they got the signal that action had started. Sources further alleged that one of the persons snatched the pant from hands of the IAS officer even as he was trying to wear it. In the video made available by a news channel, there is a scene of a a person preventing Patil from getting back his pants. These pants were returned to the hapless officials after some time and he wore them soon after, the sources added. The travesty is that despite the best efforts of the police and a complaint lodged to the effect in the State Human Rights Commission, the unedited tapes of incident are not being made available. The truth of the version of the alleged complainant and that of Patil could be easily verified by looking at these tapes – but than the “unedited” tapes that were given to the district administration, ironically start from the clips as seen on TV, it was stated. Indeed, there is a few seconds clip of the verandah but thereafter, the camera shows the face of Patil, it was disclosed. The video recording of the “distance” between Patil’s chamber door and his toilet door is conspicuous by its absence. And this is what people closely following the case are waiting to see! Whether the media was taken for a ride or it was assured of Patil's guilt is an open question. However, it is important that the judgement is not pronounced before proper investigation is conducted and justice is duly served. Source: http://www.merinews.com/article/mp-ias-caught-with-pants-down-a-villain-or-a-victim/15776818.shtml From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 22 16:30:33 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:00:33 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> Dear All It is indeed very interesting to note that country with a population which less than that of number of people living in Delhi will help India in its UIDC project. The claim of this country is -domain expertise-. As Mr.Katrin Melamed, business development manager for the Israeli software industry avers according to the report below, "Israeli IT firms with domain expertise in e-governance and homeland security will bid for the unique ID card project jointly with Indian vendors, as local participation is key to such projects dealing with critical mass," Katrin Melamed, business development manager for the Israeli software industry, told IANS here. 'Domain expertise' seems to be the spin phrase here. What 'domain expertise' does Israel brings to the table is yet to be seen? The very attribute of branding people with numbers which is seen as one of the systematic and banal humiliations which the Nazi meted out to Jews is practiced by Israelis...and now after 60 years this attribute becomes -domain expertise-? Very very interesting indeed!! Maybe the culture industry of Hollywood should take notice and not bore us with images of sad, angry, humiliated Jews showing their Auschwitz numbers to each other, because after all it has become an area of -domain expertise- these days. Maybe the world is ready, to be shown a conversation happening between two Jewish men admiring Hitler for his ingenuity in numbering them, even as they wait for their turn to be taken to a gas chamber. or maybe I am completely wrong and completely ignorant about the -harsh realities- and the pain of responsibility which governance brings. However for the time being it seems, that there is business opportunity to be availed. 1.5 Lakh crore rupees are up for grabs. Israelis see an opportunity and they are bidding for it while getting help from native informers aka Indian vendors, had I been in their place maybe I would have thought on same lines. Warm regards Taha http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/israeli-it-firms-to-bid-for-unique-id-card-project/ Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project Fakir Balaji July 2nd, 2009 BANGALORE - Israeli IT firms will partner with Indian vendors to jointly bid for the ambitious unique identification (ID) card project of the Indian government, a visiting Israeli IT industry official has said. "Israeli IT firms with domain expertise in e-governance and homeland security will bid for the unique ID card project jointly with Indian vendors, as local participation is key to such projects dealing with critical mass," Katrin Melamed, business development manager for the Israeli software industry, told IANS here. Melamed, who is leading an Israeli IT delegation on a week-long trip to India, said many Israeli firms have developed the technology and solutions for e-governance projects like ID cards with security features such as biometric or fingerprints. The trip is sponsored by the Israel Export and International Cooperation Institute (IEICI) and funded by the Israeli government. "Though we are a small nation of seven million, every Israeli citizen has a smart card with personal details embedded in a chip. Our leading IT firms have the architecture and the model for the Indian ID card project, which is set to cover over a billion people," Melamed said Wednesday on the margins of an IT seminar here. The government-funded project, to be implemented by the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) under the chairmanship of former Infosys Technologies co-chairman Nandan M. Nilekani, is expected to create unique identification cards to all citizens by 2011. The 14-member delegation, representing large, medium and small IT firms are scouting for partnerships with Indian counterparts to develop or customise software products or solutions for Indian and global markets. "The delegation has interacted with leading IT firms such as TCS (Tata Consultancy Services) in Mumbai early this week and are here for a similar exercise with hi-tech firms like Infosys and Wipro. It will be in Delhi Thursday for a similar exercise," said Elad Goz, Israeli consul for economic affairs. The delegation is looking for partnerships in digital broadcast media, legacy IT modernisation solutions, homeland security and e-governance. With about 3,000 indigenous IT firms, spanning hardware and software, the Israeli hi-tech industry has grown exponentially with exports alone accounting for $5.8 billion in 2008 as against $90 million in 1990. "In the absence of a lucrative domestic market for historical and social reasons, we are an export-oriented nation with only human capital and limited natural resources due to scarce land and smaller size of the country," Melamed pointed out. As a result, Israeli IT industry focuses more on research and development (R&D), product innovation and technology upgrading to be globally competitive in an ever-changing business environment. North America contributes about 40 percent to Israel's total IT exports, while Europe accounts for 30 percent and the balance (30 percent) is generated from rest of the world, including Asia. "Our unique geographic, geopolitical, demographic, and cultural characteristics have combined to create a different software development climate where innovation and entrepreneurship are the norm, early adoption is the rule, and thinking 'out of the box' is a day-to-day phenomenon," Rita Katzir, vice-president of Tel Aviv-based i21-Ventures, said. As part of its 'Look Asia Policy' the Israeli government has decided to expand industry and trade ties with India in diverse sectors, including drip irrigation, agro-technology, water conservation, IT, telecom and homeland security. "The trade balance between the two countries grew marginally to $4 billion in 2008 from $3.3 billion in 2007 due to global meltdown. We are keen to boost ties in the knowledge sector through partnerships, joint ventures and venture funding," Goz averred. The non-profit IEICI, supported by the Israeli government and the private sector, facilitates business ties, joint ventures and strategic alliances between overseas and Israeli firms. From vikash.sen at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 16:31:25 2009 From: vikash.sen at gmail.com (Bikash Ballabh Singh) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:31:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MP IAS caught with pants down: A villain or a victim? Message-ID: <25c340bd0907220401i2a13dc7u68f64ab0ab7e8b2c@mail.gmail.com> MP IAS caught with pants down: A villain or a victim? Abhishek Behl , merinews IF SOURCES are to be believed then the Madhya Pradesh IAS official, who was shown with his pants down in his office and later suspended by the Chief Minister for allegedly seeking sexual favours, could be a victim of a sting operation gone wrong rather than being the villain that he is being made out to be. Dnyaneshwar Patil, a 2003 batch IAS official was suspended by the MP Government after he was filmed and shown on television without his pants along with a junior official. People close to Patil and in the know of things are of the opinion that the IAS officer has been framed for not acquiescing to the unjust demands of a lobby of lower officials. They alleged that the entire sequence of filming Patil without his pants was planned and executed with an ulterior motive. However, there is also a section of establishment in Madhya Pradesh, which believes that there can be no smoke without fire. A top media person based in Bhopal averred that no doubt a conspiracy was hatched to trap the IAS official but there were some chinks in his armour as well, pointing to the obvious. Narrating the entire sequence of events on the fateful day inside the chamber of Dnyaneshwar Patil, a highly placed source pointed that the officer could have been a victim of a conspiracy. Rubbishing the allegations of sexual harassment against Patil, he said that the officer was well known for his honesty and was a stickler for rules and that proved to be his undoing. On the night of June 18, Dnyaneshwar Patil and his wife went to Rainbow hospital for treatment of their daughter around 8.30 pm. Thereafter, Patil was dropped at the Zila Parishad office around 9.10 pm and his wife went home to attend to the ailing child. At around 9.30 pm, the alleged victim, Sikandarabad village panchayat secretary Satish Chaukse (23) dropped in the Zila Parishad officer, where there were two home guards present along with a private vehicle’s driver. Chaukse was asked to come with the details of the expenditure made by the Self Helf Group (SHG), which is running the MDM in the Village school. Sources said that the Secretary to Chief Minister had asked Patil to do a cost analysis of the various items made by SHG, so that the system could be extended to Mahila Baal Vikas department in Madhya Pradesh and he had asked for a report by next morning. Thus, it became necessary to allow the Panchayat Secretary into the office where he was attending to regular file work. However, when Chaukse reached the chamber of Dnyaneshwar Patil and was asked to show the records of the MDM, he baulked and instead produced the records of National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREG). Chaukse, when asked, why he had not brought the MDM record, could not reply satisfactorily. He looked ill at ease and asked for a glass of water to drink. Sources said that Patil asked Chaukse to go out and fetch water for him too after repeatedly sounding the bell, which was not attended to. After some time, Chaukse returned and brought water for the IAS officer, who was now going through the records (Rozgaar Panchi) of NREG, which were also not proper and the officer admonished him for the same. Even as the IAS officer was going through records, Chaukse demanded that secretary of Bakaniya Gram Panchayat should be given regular pay scale, which Patil said was not possible as per law. Apparently angered by the refusal, Chaukse is alleged to have threatened the official and demanded regular scales for all secretaries. Patil, however, said that regularisation depended on good work and the secretaries will again be given a chance next year as per provisions. As the discussion heated up, Patil asked Chaukse to leave the room and went to the attached toilet in his room to attend the nature's call. The real drama, sources said, unfolded here as soon as Patil went inside the toilet, Chaukse started shouting 'Bachao, Bachao' loudly. Hearing the commotion a worried Patil opened the toilet door to see what had happened outside. As soon as the door was opened, Chaukse, who was in his undergarments and shoes pulled open the door and barged into the toilet. Immediately, thereafter, Chaukse called the media men, who were waiting outside the cabin. Though Patil's cabin had no lock, the media preferred to stay outside till they got the signal that action had started. Sources further alleged that one of the persons snatched the pant from hands of the IAS officer even as he was trying to wear it. In the video made available by a news channel, there is a scene of a a person preventing Patil from getting back his pants. These pants were returned to the hapless officials after some time and he wore them soon after, the sources added. The travesty is that despite the best efforts of the police and a complaint lodged to the effect in the State Human Rights Commission, the unedited tapes of incident are not being made available. The truth of the version of the alleged complainant and that of Patil could be easily verified by looking at these tapes – but than the “unedited” tapes that were given to the district administration, ironically start from the clips as seen on TV, it was stated. Indeed, there is a few seconds clip of the verandah but thereafter, the camera shows the face of Patil, it was disclosed. The video recording of the “distance” between Patil’s chamber door and his toilet door is conspicuous by its absence. And this is what people closely following the case are waiting to see! Whether the media was taken for a ride or it was assured of Patil's guilt is an open question. However, it is important that the judgement is not pronounced before proper investigation is conducted and justice is duly served. Source: http://www.merinews.com/article/mp-ias-caught-with-pants-down-a-villain-or-a-victim/15776818.shtml From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 22 16:44:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:14:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Praful Patel calls upon young MBAs to play part in improving governance- 155 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907220414v64d0f4bai8d39a565055896aa@mail.gmail.com> Dear All That Indians like walk on their own is perhaps evidenced by the fact that, first, they do not mind adopting a technological idea like a national identity card which is rubbished even in countries like the UK and second, even after the recent collapse of world financial market which was led by these so called MBA's we have ministers like Praful Patel, who BTW could not even run his ministry properly, charming young MBA's to join UIDAI. Why? We have seen how efficient they are on the world stage and do we really want them to prove their efficiency now in India too. How are MBA's trained to think in terms of governance? We have George Bush, who was a Harvard MBA, as a leader of the free world for eight years, and I think, all of us know now how much -free- we all are, thanks to the efficient policies he pursued. Regards Taha http://www.mbauniverse.com/campusinner.php?id=2224/Praful_Patel_calls_upon_young_MBAs_to_play_part_in_improving_governance For years, governance remained closely associated with politicians, their prodigious sons, and even lawyers. There were instances of non-politicians joining the force, but the numbers remained comparatively lesser. But now, a lot of young people, including MBA degree holders, are joining the political force to help take governance to the next level. “I’m happy Indian government is witnessing change for the good. A lot of young people are joining the government and are being elected too,” Minister of Civil Aviation, Praful Patel, said while addressing a national conference organized by All India Management Association (AIMA) on ‘Promoting Excellence in Governance’ on July 21, 2009. Addressing the gathering including eminent corporate world leaders, seasoned politicos, faculty and students of top MBA schools in India, the minister said, “Governance, though it is very complex, can be improved if bright young people join the force.” The moment openness and receptiveness comes into governance, it will change the way governments function, Patel added. Praising AIMA’s efforts to bring people representing the Indian government, corporate leaders as well as participants from different MBA schools under one roof, Patel said, “Over a period of time people have been losing faith in the government. Earlier, serving the government used to be something to pride about. But lately this mindset has changed.” People, particularly the young India passing out from India’s best MBA schools, engineering colleges and leading universities, have been shying away from government services, he lamented. “This,” he said, “needs to be changed.” Patel emphasized on the fact that the aspiration levels of Indians has gone through tremendous change and said, “Earlier there was no pressure in governance, but now it’s not the same. The pace of government has been put to test.” This change can very well be gauged by looking at this year’s elections which saw participation from a large number of MBA degrees holders, some from top MBA schools of the world. Eminent among those holding an MBA degree in the present political system are Sachin Pilot and Jyotiraditya Scindia. Pilot holds MBA degrees from IMT Ghaziabad as well as the Wharton School, U.S.A. Jyotiraditya did his MBA from the leading US MBA School, Stanford University and has also worked as an investment banker for Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley. Although Rahul Gandhi doesn’t hold any MBA degree, he worked with management guru Michael Porter’s Management Consulting Firm, Monitor Group, for three years after graduation. Entrepreneur and businessman, Nandan Nilekani, too, recently joined Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) as Chairman, after resigning Infosys Technologies Ltd as co-chairman. Patel expressed that people think politicians enjoy ultimate freedom, but it’s not so. “I get a lot of brick-backs for my decisions, but I take them up in good spirits and think what should be done to improve. The Indian government is only about 60 years old and still has a long way to go. It certainly has a lot of improvements to make, too, but I feel people who are being governed should take equal responsibility.” Patel emphasized that people like him can only be the drivers for growth and vehicles for change in governance. Taking the discussion forward, the Chairman of AIMA Centre for Public Governance (CPG) K. Jairaj said, “The CPG has been dormant from some time, but now we would like to take it forward. AIMA, through the CPG, expects to facilitate a cross fertilization of good governance practices across the Public and Private sectors.” The two-day AIMA National Conference on Promoting Excellence in Governance, held in New Delhi, was organized to discuss transparency, accountability and the role of young leaders in better development outcomes. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 22 17:11:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:41:12 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] (National Identity Card ) A digital Pandora's box - 153 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907210653l3d38b746va13cf5b50a805c30@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907210653l3d38b746va13cf5b50a805c30@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907220441x488edba9le4495233f8052711@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen and Deal All, Thank you for your mail. Now that an argument has been presented about my pre-occupation, please allow me to state what my preoccupations really are. My preoccupations are as follows- I am interested in bringing to your kind notice all those views, which I could garner and which exist in the public domain, in a primarily textual form, on and about the idea of national identity card. Following which I am interested in having a modest public debate involving at least half a billion Indians (although I dream of getting the whole billion of us together), that whether we need a national identity card or not and whether we think that spending 1.5 Lakh Crore rupees in our name would benefit us all or not. Further more, I believe that as a citizen of India it is my responsibility to raise informed questions addressed to my government regarding any money that they want to spend in my name. For instance- If ID cards have existed since independence in various forms then why they were unable to act as a channel through which benefit to the poor could not be reached? Moreover, it baffles me to no end that why so much of faith is being put in a technology- when every one knows that technology changes every five years, and when every technology can be reverse engineered to be copied? Who will really benefit from such a huge transfer of public money? Whose benefit is the government really bothered about? Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 22 17:29:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:59:16 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MoD uses counter-terrorism powers to spy on wounded soldiers In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907220154t214f1debn6d1daab1831b8ef5@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907210927q2a56a93cua117316bd49db421@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907220154t214f1debn6d1daab1831b8ef5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907220459h75815421h4231a30d14f321e6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, The apprehension in question relates to families of soldiers who are subject to surveillance after being injured and maimed in oversees duty. These soldiers belong to the United Kingdom. Therefore if there is any 'apprehension' regarding the authorities verifying a claim or the genuineness of a wounded soldier. Then it is theirs, not mine. My interest in posting this story was bring to you kind notice, a view, which I read and thought that, maybe you would like to read too. This view helped me think about benign ideas of democracy, governance, policing, surveillance and of course the benevolence of the State. I'm sure that there will be hundreds of people who might like to agree with your considered opinion but my sole intention was not to argue and show disrespect to the very people who give their lives to the idea of a state and to a piece of cloth which is called a flag but the intention, as you might have noticed, was to provide some fodder of reflection :) I have carefully read what you have to say and I would like to state that your views are not entirely off the mark. Thank you for posting them. With sincere requests that you keep on illuminating this list with your thoughts. Warm regards Taha From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 20:29:45 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:29:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Group In-Reply-To: <745725.94560.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <745725.94560.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907220759p7389f861w4d37b4a7d74a4469@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, now that National Human Rights Commission has given clean chit to the encounter and the deaths as a result of that encounter at Batla House,Delhi, what is the response from all the rights activists who have always different take on different "faiths" and religions." and the human if belonged to different faiths.? The hue and cry raised for the youths for detention was so immense, but not even a whimper for Prajna Thakur who is detained with false "accusations"? Why the human rights activists who were hoarse in crying for Binayak Sen have lost the voice for the detention of these 11 humans without evidence, is it because the faith do not teach violence but relifion and men who are religious have a role to impose their will on others in any guise, be it "human right" or vote bank.? Is the rights of the terror accused different from those involved in terror.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, ambarien qadar wrote: > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: manisha sethi > > > Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM > Subject: A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' > Solidarity Group > To: > > > Jamia > Teachers Solidarity Group > > > > A > Tale of Two Encounters: Dehradun and Batla House > > > > Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group extends > its heart-felt condolences to the family of Ranbir Singh, the youth who was > killed in a police encounter in Dehradun last week. This encounter again > brings > to the fore the trigger happy ways of the Indian police who kill and > torture > for medals and promotions. We demand exemplary punishment for the guilty > policemen. > > > > However, the manner in which the Indian > State and the mainstream political parties have responded to the encounter > in > Dehradun is in striking contrast to the reaction to the shooting down of > two > young men in Batla House in Delhi last September. Both encounters were > followed > by mass anger and upsurge which spilled onto the streets of the capital > cities > of Uttarakhand and the country. While the ‘secular’ Congress has put its > weight > behind the agitation in Uttrakhand, joining the peoples’ demand for fair > probe > and crying foul over human rights violation, the BJP not to be left behind > in > the Human Rights race sent its emissary in the form of BJP President’s and > Ghaziabad MP’s son to the family of the slain youth to reassure them that > the > probe into the encounter would be fair and independent, without the > involvement > of the accused Dehradun Police. A CB-CID enquiry has already been ordered > and > all police men involved in the shootout have been charged for murder. > > > > Recall now the jingoist hysteria created by > Congress and BJP alike, aided by a section of pliant media, in which all > calls > for independent and impartial enquiry in the Batla House encounter were > branded > as unpatriotic and downright insulting of the bravery of Special Cell cops. > The Congress, which today preens on the > retrieval of its minority vote, persistently bulldozed all demands for a > probe > into the Batla House ‘encounter’. So much so, that even the simple, > procedural > requirement for a magisterial enquiry was subverted through the Lieutenant > Governor, who refused to grant permission for an enquiry on flimsy grounds. > The > post mortem reports of the deceased—the killed boys as well as Inspector > Sharma—have been accorded the status of State secret. > > > > So, what could be the reason for this > speedy demonstration of justice for Ranbir Singh, and the obstinate refusal > to > concede to the widespread demand for an enquiry into the killings of Atif > Ameen > and Mohammad Sajid? Except that Atif and Sajid fall in that unfortunate > category of ‘encounterables’—those whose killings can be justified, > explained, > and remain unmourned by our society and polity. It is all right to snuff > out > the lives of young men as long as they are drawn from a certain demographic > and > reside in areas identified as ghettoes. What we are being told here is that > Atifs > and Sajids cannot claim the framework of democratic rights—the only > framework > that they must exist in is that of national security. > > > > JTSG reiterates its demand for a judicial > probe into the Batla House incident, and the application of the same > standards > of justice for Atif and Sajid as those applied in the unfortunate and > tragic > case of Ranbir Singh. > > > > Sd/ > > Manish Sethi and Adeel Mehdi for JTSG > (9811625577 and 9990923027) > > > > -- > Ambarien Al Qadar > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 20:33:52 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:33:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Group In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907220759p7389f861w4d37b4a7d74a4469@mail.gmail.com> References: <745725.94560.qm@web24106.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907220759p7389f861w4d37b4a7d74a4469@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907220803x4ba8978flfec3265f4d2df40c@mail.gmail.com> Corrections please---- ....... the hue and cry for the youth detained at Delhi and Hyderabad...." ........faith does not teach violence but religion and men of religious faiths do........ Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear all, > > now that National Human Rights Commission has given clean chit to the > encounter and the deaths as a result of that encounter at Batla > House,Delhi, what is the response from all the rights activists who have > always different take on different "faiths" and religions." and the human if > belonged to different faiths.? > > The hue and cry raised for the youths for detention was so immense, but not > even a whimper for Prajna Thakur who is detained with false "accusations"? > Why the human rights activists who were hoarse in crying for Binayak Sen > have lost the voice for the detention of these 11 humans without evidence, > is it because the faith do not teach violence but relifion and men who are > religious have a role to impose their will on others in any guise, be it > "human right" or vote bank.? > > Is the rights of the terror accused different from those involved in > terror.? > > Regards, > Rajen. > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, ambarien qadar wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: manisha sethi >> >> >> Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM >> Subject: A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' >> Solidarity Group >> To: >> >> >> Jamia >> Teachers Solidarity Group >> >> >> >> A >> Tale of Two Encounters: Dehradun and Batla House >> >> >> >> Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group extends >> its heart-felt condolences to the family of Ranbir Singh, the youth who >> was >> killed in a police encounter in Dehradun last week. This encounter again >> brings >> to the fore the trigger happy ways of the Indian police who kill and >> torture >> for medals and promotions. We demand exemplary punishment for the guilty >> policemen. >> >> >> >> However, the manner in which the Indian >> State and the mainstream political parties have responded to the encounter >> in >> Dehradun is in striking contrast to the reaction to the shooting down of >> two >> young men in Batla House in Delhi last September. Both encounters were >> followed >> by mass anger and upsurge which spilled onto the streets of the capital >> cities >> of Uttarakhand and the country. While the ‘secular’ Congress has put its >> weight >> behind the agitation in Uttrakhand, joining the peoples’ demand for fair >> probe >> and crying foul over human rights violation, the BJP not to be left behind >> in >> the Human Rights race sent its emissary in the form of BJP President’s and >> Ghaziabad MP’s son to the family of the slain youth to reassure them that >> the >> probe into the encounter would be fair and independent, without the >> involvement >> of the accused Dehradun Police. A CB-CID enquiry has already been ordered >> and >> all police men involved in the shootout have been charged for murder. >> >> >> >> Recall now the jingoist hysteria created by >> Congress and BJP alike, aided by a section of pliant media, in which all >> calls >> for independent and impartial enquiry in the Batla House encounter were >> branded >> as unpatriotic and downright insulting of the bravery of Special Cell >> cops. The Congress, which today preens on the >> retrieval of its minority vote, persistently bulldozed all demands for a >> probe >> into the Batla House ‘encounter’. So much so, that even the simple, >> procedural >> requirement for a magisterial enquiry was subverted through the Lieutenant >> Governor, who refused to grant permission for an enquiry on flimsy >> grounds. The >> post mortem reports of the deceased—the killed boys as well as Inspector >> Sharma—have been accorded the status of State secret. >> >> >> >> So, what could be the reason for this >> speedy demonstration of justice for Ranbir Singh, and the obstinate >> refusal to >> concede to the widespread demand for an enquiry into the killings of Atif >> Ameen >> and Mohammad Sajid? Except that Atif and Sajid fall in that unfortunate >> category of ‘encounterables’—those whose killings can be justified, >> explained, >> and remain unmourned by our society and polity. It is all right to snuff >> out >> the lives of young men as long as they are drawn from a certain >> demographic and >> reside in areas identified as ghettoes. What we are being told here is >> that Atifs >> and Sajids cannot claim the framework of democratic rights—the only >> framework >> that they must exist in is that of national security. >> >> >> >> JTSG reiterates its demand for a judicial >> probe into the Batla House incident, and the application of the same >> standards >> of justice for Atif and Sajid as those applied in the unfortunate and >> tragic >> case of Ranbir Singh. >> >> >> >> Sd/ >> >> Manish Sethi and Adeel Mehdi for JTSG >> (9811625577 and 9990923027) >> >> >> >> -- >> Ambarien Al Qadar >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 20:43:17 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:43:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Facilitator Needed: Human Rights Documentation Workshop in Kashmir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560907220813t5ffa7f45v11835ea453687d0d@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, the forced disappearence covers all the disappearences like religious individuals going to learn the war for religion, going for being mercenaries for religion and ofcourse bulk amount retainers on holy war.? Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Chandni Parekh wrote: > From: Dilnaz > Date: 2009/7/6 > Subject: > > > Hi Chandni, > please pass this around.. thanks > > Need an experienced person to hold a (human rights documentation) workshop > for war widows to teach them to keep track of cases of enforced > disappearances in Kashmir. The idea is to empower the surviors from the > families of the disappeared, and eventually put them on our payroll. The > person has to be available to travel to Kashmir in autumn (Sept-Oct) for > about 10-15 days. Costs will be covered. Those interested, please mail > dilnazb at gmail.com. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 20:45:17 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:45:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Unable to deliver your message In-Reply-To: <1248275076.1371.94881.m4@yahoogroups.co.in> References: <1248275076.1371.94881.m4@yahoogroups.co.in> Message-ID: <7271ec560907220815g59c4d7fcjc5bc98d4fefbd9e0@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Yahoo! Groups Date: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:34 PM Subject: Unable to deliver your message To: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com We are unable to deliver the message from to . The email address used to send your message is not subscribed to this group. If you are a member of this group, please be aware that you may only send messages to this group using the email address(es) you have registered with Yahoo! Groups. If you would like to subscribe to this group: 1. visit http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/sexualityinstitute2002/join -OR- 2. send email to sexualityinstitute2002-subscribe at yahoogroups.co.in For further assistance, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/in/groups/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi To: ambarien qadar Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:33:52 +0530 Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Group Corrections please---- ....... the hue and cry for the youth detained at Delhi and Hyderabad...." ........faith does not teach violence but religion and men of religious faiths do........ Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear all, > > now that National Human Rights Commission has given clean chit to the > encounter and the deaths as a result of that encounter at Batla > House,Delhi, what is the response from all the rights activists who have > always different take on different "faiths" and religions." and the human if > belonged to different faiths.? > > The hue and cry raised for the youths for detention was so immense, but not > even a whimper for Prajna Thakur who is detained with false "accusations"? > Why the human rights activists who were hoarse in crying for Binayak Sen > have lost the voice for the detention of these 11 humans without evidence, > is it because the faith do not teach violence but relifion and men who are > religious have a role to impose their will on others in any guise, be it > "human right" or vote bank.? > > Is the rights of the terror accused different from those involved in > terror.? > > Regards, > Rajen. > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, ambarien qadar wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: manisha sethi >> >> >> Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM >> Subject: A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' >> Solidarity Group >> To: >> >> >> Jamia >> Teachers Solidarity Group >> >> >> >> A >> Tale of Two Encounters: Dehradun and Batla House >> >> >> >> Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group extends >> its heart-felt condolences to the family of Ranbir Singh, the youth who >> was >> killed in a police encounter in Dehradun last week. This encounter again >> brings >> to the fore the trigger happy ways of the Indian police who kill and >> torture >> for medals and promotions. We demand exemplary punishment for the guilty >> policemen. >> >> >> >> However, the manner in which the Indian >> State and the mainstream political parties have responded to the encounter >> in >> Dehradun is in striking contrast to the reaction to the shooting down of >> two >> young men in Batla House in Delhi last September. Both encounters were >> followed >> by mass anger and upsurge which spilled onto the streets of the capital >> cities >> of Uttarakhand and the country. While the ‘secular’ Congress has put its >> weight >> behind the agitation in Uttrakhand, joining the peoples’ demand for fair >> probe >> and crying foul over human rights violation, the BJP not to be left behind >> in >> the Human Rights race sent its emissary in the form of BJP President’s and >> Ghaziabad MP’s son to the family of the slain youth to reassure them that >> the >> probe into the encounter would be fair and independent, without the >> involvement >> of the accused Dehradun Police. A CB-CID enquiry has already been ordered >> and >> all police men involved in the shootout have been charged for murder. >> >> >> >> Recall now the jingoist hysteria created by >> Congress and BJP alike, aided by a section of pliant media, in which all >> calls >> for independent and impartial enquiry in the Batla House encounter were >> branded >> as unpatriotic and downright insulting of the bravery of Special Cell >> cops. The Congress, which today preens on the >> retrieval of its minority vote, persistently bulldozed all demands for a >> probe >> into the Batla House ‘encounter’. So much so, that even the simple, >> procedural >> requirement for a magisterial enquiry was subverted through the Lieutenant >> Governor, who refused to grant permission for an enquiry on flimsy >> grounds. The >> post mortem reports of the deceased—the killed boys as well as Inspector >> Sharma—have been accorded the status of State secret. >> >> >> >> So, what could be the reason for this >> speedy demonstration of justice for Ranbir Singh, and the obstinate >> refusal to >> concede to the widespread demand for an enquiry into the killings of Atif >> Ameen >> and Mohammad Sajid? Except that Atif and Sajid fall in that unfortunate >> category of ‘encounterables’—those whose killings can be justified, >> explained, >> and remain unmourned by our society and polity. It is all right to snuff >> out >> the lives of young men as long as they are drawn from a certain >> demographic and >> reside in areas identified as ghettoes. What we are being told here is >> that Atifs >> and Sajids cannot claim the framework of democratic rights—the only >> framework >> that they must exist in is that of national security. >> >> >> >> JTSG reiterates its demand for a judicial >> probe into the Batla House incident, and the application of the same >> standards >> of justice for Atif and Sajid as those applied in the unfortunate and >> tragic >> case of Ranbir Singh. >> >> >> >> Sd/ >> >> Manish Sethi and Adeel Mehdi for JTSG >> (9811625577 and 9990923027) >> >> >> >> -- >> Ambarien Al Qadar >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 20:46:11 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:46:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Unable to deliver your message In-Reply-To: <1248274847.1046.38961.m8@yahoogroups.com> References: <1248274847.1046.38961.m8@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907220816k5128cfb8heaef38fa0fe5469c@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Yahoo! Groups Date: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:30 PM Subject: Unable to deliver your message To: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com We are unable to deliver the message from to . The email address used to send your message is not subscribed to this group. If you are a member of this group, please be aware that you may only send messages to this group using the email address(es) you have registered with Yahoo! Groups. If you would like to subscribe to this group: 1. visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vikalp/join -OR- 2. send email to vikalp-subscribe at yahoogroups.com For further assistance, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.html ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi To: ambarien qadar Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:29:45 +0530 Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Group Dear all, now that National Human Rights Commission has given clean chit to the encounter and the deaths as a result of that encounter at Batla House,Delhi, what is the response from all the rights activists who have always different take on different "faiths" and religions." and the human if belonged to different faiths.? The hue and cry raised for the youths for detention was so immense, but not even a whimper for Prajna Thakur who is detained with false "accusations"? Why the human rights activists who were hoarse in crying for Binayak Sen have lost the voice for the detention of these 11 humans without evidence, is it because the faith do not teach violence but relifion and men who are religious have a role to impose their will on others in any guise, be it "human right" or vote bank.? Is the rights of the terror accused different from those involved in terror.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, ambarien qadar wrote: > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: manisha sethi > > > Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM > Subject: A Tale of Two Encounters: Statement by the Jamia Teachers' > Solidarity Group > To: > > > Jamia > Teachers Solidarity Group > > > > A > Tale of Two Encounters: Dehradun and Batla House > > > > Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group extends > its heart-felt condolences to the family of Ranbir Singh, the youth who was > killed in a police encounter in Dehradun last week. This encounter again > brings > to the fore the trigger happy ways of the Indian police who kill and > torture > for medals and promotions. We demand exemplary punishment for the guilty > policemen. > > > > However, the manner in which the Indian > State and the mainstream political parties have responded to the encounter > in > Dehradun is in striking contrast to the reaction to the shooting down of > two > young men in Batla House in Delhi last September. Both encounters were > followed > by mass anger and upsurge which spilled onto the streets of the capital > cities > of Uttarakhand and the country. While the ‘secular’ Congress has put its > weight > behind the agitation in Uttrakhand, joining the peoples’ demand for fair > probe > and crying foul over human rights violation, the BJP not to be left behind > in > the Human Rights race sent its emissary in the form of BJP President’s and > Ghaziabad MP’s son to the family of the slain youth to reassure them that > the > probe into the encounter would be fair and independent, without the > involvement > of the accused Dehradun Police. A CB-CID enquiry has already been ordered > and > all police men involved in the shootout have been charged for murder. > > > > Recall now the jingoist hysteria created by > Congress and BJP alike, aided by a section of pliant media, in which all > calls > for independent and impartial enquiry in the Batla House encounter were > branded > as unpatriotic and downright insulting of the bravery of Special Cell cops. > The Congress, which today preens on the > retrieval of its minority vote, persistently bulldozed all demands for a > probe > into the Batla House ‘encounter’. So much so, that even the simple, > procedural > requirement for a magisterial enquiry was subverted through the Lieutenant > Governor, who refused to grant permission for an enquiry on flimsy grounds. > The > post mortem reports of the deceased—the killed boys as well as Inspector > Sharma—have been accorded the status of State secret. > > > > So, what could be the reason for this > speedy demonstration of justice for Ranbir Singh, and the obstinate refusal > to > concede to the widespread demand for an enquiry into the killings of Atif > Ameen > and Mohammad Sajid? Except that Atif and Sajid fall in that unfortunate > category of ‘encounterables’—those whose killings can be justified, > explained, > and remain unmourned by our society and polity. It is all right to snuff > out > the lives of young men as long as they are drawn from a certain demographic > and > reside in areas identified as ghettoes. What we are being told here is that > Atifs > and Sajids cannot claim the framework of democratic rights—the only > framework > that they must exist in is that of national security. > > > > JTSG reiterates its demand for a judicial > probe into the Batla House incident, and the application of the same > standards > of justice for Atif and Sajid as those applied in the unfortunate and > tragic > case of Ranbir Singh. > > > > Sd/ > > Manish Sethi and Adeel Mehdi for JTSG > (9811625577 and 9990923027) > > > > -- > Ambarien Al Qadar > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > -- Rajen. -- Rajen. From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 22 21:17:31 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Ms Meera Rizwi, I have not been able to understand the intent of the following: "The surprise was, that even as we, the Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri driver, unarmed and alone, was fighting back." What do you mean by we, the Indians and .....Kashmiri driver. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Meera Rizvi wrote: > From: Meera Rizvi > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > To: "Inder Salim" > Cc: "reader-list" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 9:18 AM > Dear All, > > I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a > deeply disturbing > book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the > book and the > journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges > clearly is that > for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years, > Kashmir has > lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the > army. > > Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an > army check post. > The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the > army truck moving > in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him > up and > threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that > even as we, the > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri > driver, unarmed > and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag > him into a nearby > orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming > from the opposite > direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The > jawans backed off > and the driver became more aggressive. > > The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the > swagger of the > conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped > on the driver > were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old > niece burst into > tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and > assuage her fears. > > Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it > is dangerous to > have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which > has grown up with > that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it. > Their instinct for > survival has been dulled by years of brutality and > violence. They are no > longer afraid to die. > > Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think > so. Can peace be > brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real > or percieved > oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets > protesting. Isn't > that democracy? > > Regards, > > Meera > > > On 7/19/09, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > > Dear All > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar > names throwing > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my > own bit, as > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue > is alive as much > > as it was in 1947. > > > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who > stood like a wall > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he > not been so > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another > Swat, or worse > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. > Where Gandhi > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence > Sheikh succeeded in > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted > good for Kashmiris > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid > by Indian > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord > which obviously > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead > bone, which is > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to > eat the Indian > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson > Mandela of this > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own > complacency led him to > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most > probably Shikeh > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the > luxuries of power > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in > Kashmir is less > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, > and as reports > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > > > The question, now is that who are these > unfortunate  people who > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in > the valley. > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good > thing that it is > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. > But, on the > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the > Kashmiri sentiments. > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May > be British > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but > very little is said > > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank > cheque in his > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew > that people in > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. > But Sheikh > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned > Sheikhs dream into > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments > were not > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani > line on Kashmir > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the > ‘Pakistani line’ > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were > numerous  other > > political representatives. It was war against Indian > face in the > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, > and wanted > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then > Kashmirs, which they > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads > fighting each other. > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, > but at the cost > > of thousands of kashmiris dead,  for a cause or > without a cause. > > > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the > same coalition > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in > 1989. A simple > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which > is compounded > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and > every roof top. > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of > freedom, since both > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. > Quite boring. > > > > There are many reasons why a particular community > turns > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ > the cold war ’ > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called > fundamentalism. Now we > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed > state. > > > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has > become more > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not > a healthy sign, > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the > same time. For > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing > which can  white > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on > earth will be the > > issue. > > > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of > living emerged. > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of > an average > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the > masses? How to > > talk sustainability in the present without any > compromise on their > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge > before > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may > be  by looking into > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather > than picking up > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But > life is not a > > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > > > With love and regards > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana > > wrote: > > > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of > AFSpA.Nobody can ensure > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring > terrorism because its > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the > UN resolution India > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of > referendum in the light of > > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to > tame.Its a highly organised > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United > States > > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in > itself but its nothing > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens > as canon fodder to > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an > institution in power,one > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from > Kashmir.In my opinion > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in > Kashmir is a stable > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > wrote: > > > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > Self Determination > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > > >> Dear Rahul, > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this > be unstable? > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for > the 'new > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such > issues only keep > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs > to be ensured, > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > > >> Regards, > > >> Subhrodip. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> From: Rahul Asthana > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > > >> subhrodip sengupta > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > Self > > >> Determination > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Dear Subhrodip, > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed > Kashmir up.AFSpA > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop > sending > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should > you or I > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support > or oppose a > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There > are people > > >> like  Junaid who are not really worried > about how many > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri > nationalism is as much > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is > to those who > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of > self > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not > the right of > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly > submit that we > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism > and should > > >> advocate the course of action that results in > resolving the > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only > speak for myself. > > >> Thanks > > >> Rahul > > >> > > >> > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > Self > > >> Determination > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > > >> > Dear all, > > >> > This problem shall continue if the > posession of land > > >> for > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer > laws of > > >> inheritance > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased > out of > > >> > > > >> > > > it........................................................................................................ > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted > either by Indian > > >> or by > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated > and quite > > >> > interesting discussions, one question > I'd like to > > >> > > ask..................................... > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a > limited extent > > >> of our > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects > where they are > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I > shouldnt rape poorer > > >> Gori > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a > case of dire > > >> racism. > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak > ................ > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not > India or Pak or > > >> Bg > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets > so sensitive > > >> and > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper > readings > > >> suggests it > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed > act, army > > >> appearing > > >> > in every domain of social life and so > the anti-army > > >> forces, > > >> > that makes these people crave for a > different kind of > > >> > independance, from the state which doent > want to > > >> repeal the > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a > political > > >> struggle, > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt > the peace > > >> option not > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however > would not be > > >> much > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or > Maharasthra's > > >> Son of > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we > could retain > > >> > > > >> > > > kashmir.................................................................... > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ________________________________ > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > >> > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir > has no case > > >> for > > >> > self-determination > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Hi Junaid, > > >> > There is a difference between a > colonized body of land > > >> and > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > > >> > > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of > a nation than > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, > you are > > >> defining > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of > solidarity based > > >> on > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is > that correct? > > >> > > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only > occupying > > >> nation in > > >> > Kashmir or do > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as > well? > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > Rahul > > >> > > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > From: Junaid > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why > Kashmir has no > > >> case for > > >> > self-determination > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 > AM > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > >> > > fighting for its liberation. > National > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the > democratic > > >> principle > > >> > of > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle > of > > >> > self-determination > > >> > > does not > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN > or any other > > >> > > multinational document. > > >> > > But on the contrary what is > enshrined in the UN > > >> > Charter > > >> > > emerged from > > >> > > an ethical realisation that > self-determination is > > >> the > > >> > > foundational > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which > in turn is the > > >> bed > > >> > rock > > >> > > for peace. > > >> > > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle > was widely > > >> > accepted. > > >> > > And it proved > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the > decolonization > > >> > movement, > > >> > > which > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the > anti-colonial > > >> > struggles in > > >> > > the Indian > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. > (On the > > >> betrayal of > > >> > > anti-colonial > > >> > > struggle though, I might add > quickly what Faiz > > >> said > > >> > "Yeh > > >> > > woh seher to > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or > what Mehjoor > > >> spoke > > >> > when he > > >> > > lamented > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a > few > > >> doors..."). > > >> > > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been > arguing for the > > >> same > > >> > for > > >> > > ever, but > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up > annihilating each > > >> other > > >> > before > > >> > > realising > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It > took a lot of > > >> > struggle > > >> > > and sacrifice > > >> > > from the colonised people to make > it happen. > > >> > Colonisers > > >> > > tried every > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the > eventuality. > > >> > > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has > "a case for" > > >> > > self-determination or > > >> > > not. There is no court that can > decide that. At > > >> least > > >> > it is > > >> > > not > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if > "Indian > > >> > nationalists" > > >> > > think they > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to > believe that > > >> Indian > > >> > > nationalists for > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a > religious > > >> > faith--and in > > >> > > fact is a > > >> > > religious faith--would come around > and change > > >> their > > >> > opinion > > >> > > on it-- > > >> > > least through discussion. What is > important is > > >> that > > >> > > Kashmiris think > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need > for freedom > > >> and > > >> > > independence. It > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 > years of > > >> > struggle--first > > >> > > against Dogra > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian > rule--the case > > >> in > > >> > the > > >> > > eyes of > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than > ever. > > >> > > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start > like pebbles > > >> > rolling > > >> > > down the > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. > More and more > > >> > people, > > >> > > young people, > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly > than generations > > >> > before > > >> > > them) feel > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning > to them. More > > >> and > > >> > more > > >> > > they > > >> > > understand this idea of being > Kashmiri as > > >> running > > >> > counter > > >> > > to any > > >> > > individual or group affliation with > the idea of > > >> India. > > >> > The > > >> > > idea of > > >> > > India is understood as something > that stops them > > >> from > > >> > > being > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is > utterly > > >> unacceptable > > >> > to > > >> > > them. The idea > > >> > > of independence has grown > exponentially since > > >> Sheikh > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for > independence > > >> when it > > >> > > couples itself > > >> > > with the need for it, is > unstoppable. > > >> > > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more > like a national > > >> > solidarity > > >> > > based on > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, > instead of > > >> feeding > > >> > on > > >> > > the notions > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the > chauvinist idea of > > >> "the > > >> > chosen > > >> > > people". > > >> > > Within the current global discourse > of "Islam", > > >> > however, > > >> > > Kashmiris too > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, > which in the > > >> > long-run > > >> > > does not have > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It > will wane. > > >> > Islamophobia > > >> > > cannot hold. > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion > Muslims all over > > >> the > > >> > world > > >> > > which > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend > with as > > >> enemies. > > >> > > Anti-Hindu > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of > Kashmiris is not > > >> only a > > >> > > result of the > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule > but also of > > >> how > > >> > the > > >> > > Indian > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get > entwined. > > >> For > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly > Hindu Dogra rule, > > >> and > > >> > then > > >> > > the transfer > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu > India, makes > > >> the > > >> > > imperial-territorial > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a > symbolic foe. There > > >> are > > >> > no > > >> > > doctrinal > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus > and Muslims > > >> can't sit > > >> > and > > >> > > live > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, > they have. No > > >> one > > >> > in > > >> > > Srinagar > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's > green flag on > > >> the > > >> > red > > >> > > fort. > > >> > > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the > Fourth World. A > > >> world > > >> > which > > >> > > is utterly > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the > Third > > >> World--which by > > >> > > mimicking the > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and > substance looks and > > >> > behaves > > >> > > like former > > >> > > colonial countries. > > >> > > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that > "Azadi" will be > > >> given > > >> > on a > > >> > > platter. It > > >> > > will be taken through everyday > anti-occupation > > >> > struggle by > > >> > > Kashmiris. > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have > suffered much > > >> but > > >> > there > > >> > > is very > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle > intensifies, so > > >> will > > >> > > oppression. But > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the > occupation. > > >> India > > >> > will > > >> > > leave Kashmir > > >> > > because there is no other way. I > only hope it > > >> doesn't > > >> > > happen at the > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls > the entire > > >> > subcontinent. > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and > > >> the > > >> > > city. > > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> > > with subscribe in the subject > header. > > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > > List archive: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _________________________________________ > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > >> > city. > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > List archive: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >       Yahoo! > recommends that you upgrade to > > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > >> > > _________________________________________ > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > >> > city. > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> > List archive: > > >> > > >> > > >>       Love Cricket? > Check out live scores, > > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here > http://cricket.yahoo.com > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the > > >> city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Meera > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 22 23:39:07 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:09:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Rajen's Concerns Message-ID: <520964.93629.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Dear Rajen, In response to my mail on The Batla House Encounter, your query was: 'now that National Human Rights Commission has given clean chit to the encounter and the deaths as a result of that encounter at Batla House,Delhi,  what is the response from all the rights activists who have always different take on different "faiths" and religions." and the human if belonged to different faiths.? Here is what we think: No to Farcical Enquiries; Shame on the NHRC for its Partisanship  Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group rejects the NHRC’s report on the Batla House ‘encounter’, which gives a clean chit to the Delhi Police. The NHRC claims that on the basis of the “material placed before us, it cannot be said that there has been any violation of human rights by the actions of police”.  Indeed, we would like to know what material was placed before the NHRC for inspection. The NHRC enquiry into the case, one will remember, came far too late, and that too at the insistence of the High Court. For months, the NHRC refused to take any initiative to independently enquire into the ‘encounter’ which several civil rights groups, including JTSG, deemed suspect.  The NHRC enquiry was carried out in an inexplicably secret manner; even applications by residents of Azamgarh to depose before the Commission were not acknowledged by the NHRC. If people of Azamgarh, the family members of the accused and killed boys, civil rights groups who have been working and campaigning on the issue were never heard by the Commission, we wonder what was the material that was placed before the Commission. It appears that NHRC, like the Lieutenant Governor prior to this, was satisfied by hearing the police version alone.  The JTSG Report, Encounter at Batla House: Unanswered Questions, a damning indictment of the police version had been submitted to the Commission earlier this year. By ignoring all contrary voices, the NHRC has proved itself to be a brazenly partisan body, and damaged its own standing and independent credibility.In its bid to carry out the dictats of the State, the NHRC even chose to forgot that the Delhi Police had consistently violated even its own guidelines about encounter killings. Worse still, a body which is supposed to act in the interests of the human rights of the country’s citizens, pronounces that an ‘encounter’ did not involve any human rights violation only tells us about its flawed and distorted understanding of human rights and subverts the very basis of its guidelines. Manisha Sethi and Adeel Mehdi on behalf of the JTSG, July 22 09.Your other query was: 'The hue and cry raised for the youths for detention was so immense, but not even a whimper for Prajna Thakur who is detained with false "accusations"? Why the human rights activists who were hoarse in crying for Binayak Sen have lost the voice for the detention of these 11 humans without evidence, is it because the faith do not teach violence but relifion and men who are religious have a role to impose their will on others in any guise, be it"human right" or vote bank.? Is the rights of the terror accused different from those involved in terror.?' I don't think I shall ever frame the question as broad and general as you do. But yes, we should all think and decide what we consider worth fighting for. CheersAmbarien Al Qadar From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 23 00:15:57 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Rajen's Concerns In-Reply-To: <520964.93629.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <880460.59563.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Qadar, Each one of us is entitled to have his views/beliefs the way we want to keep up.Certain Inquiries are known to be farce but somewhere there has to be an end to the controversies.Some even didn't have faith even in the Supreme Court verdict on Parliament attack accused even disputing the legal process.Differing with the Reports/Inquiries is a matter of individual opinion,even the judges of the SC differ with each other for the same facts of the case, but making farce of each and everything not suitable to the individuals is another thing.In a democracy everyone is entitled to have his views/opinion and to profess the same as well. Once I had a bet with one of my friends and he lost but would not agree on any proof given by me. He said he would lose only when he accepts the proofs given by me and he would never accept anything so he had never lost any bet.Mr Kadar and Mr Rajen can keep their views/opinion and I see a similarity on the anology given.None would ever lose. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 7/22/09, ambarien qadar wrote: > From: ambarien qadar > Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Rajen's Concerns > To: "ambarien" > Cc: "reader list" , "vikalp" , "cac delhi" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 11:39 PM > Dear Rajen, > In response to my mail on The Batla House Encounter, your > query was: > 'now that National Human Rights Commission has given clean > chit to the > encounter and the deaths as a result of that encounter at > Batla > House,Delhi,  what is the response from all the rights > activists who have > always different take on different "faiths" and religions." > and the human if > belonged to different faiths.? > Here is what we think: > No to Farcical Enquiries; Shame on the NHRC for its > Partisanship >  Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group rejects the NHRC’s > report on the Batla House ‘encounter’, which gives a > clean chit to the Delhi Police. The NHRC claims that on the > basis of the “material placed before us, it cannot be said > that there has been any violation of human rights by the > actions of police”.  Indeed, we would like to know what > material was placed before the NHRC for inspection. The NHRC > enquiry into the case, one will remember, came far too late, > and that too at the insistence of the High Court. For > months, the NHRC refused to take any initiative to > independently enquire into the ‘encounter’ which several > civil rights groups, including JTSG, deemed suspect.  The > NHRC enquiry was carried out in an inexplicably secret > manner; even applications by residents of Azamgarh to depose > before the Commission were not acknowledged by the NHRC. If > people of Azamgarh, the family members of the accused and > killed boys, civil rights groups > who have been working and campaigning on the issue were > never heard by the Commission, we wonder what was the > material that was placed before the Commission. It appears > that NHRC, like the Lieutenant Governor prior to this, was > satisfied by hearing the police version alone.  The JTSG > Report, Encounter at Batla House: Unanswered Questions, a > damning indictment of the police version had been submitted > to the Commission earlier this year. By ignoring all > contrary voices, the NHRC has proved itself to be a brazenly > partisan body, and damaged its own standing and independent > credibility.In its bid to carry out the dictats of the > State, the NHRC even chose to forgot that the Delhi Police > had consistently violated even its own guidelines about > encounter killings. Worse still, a body which is supposed to > act in the interests of the human rights of the country’s > citizens, pronounces that an ‘encounter’ did not involve > any human rights violation only > tells us about its flawed and distorted understanding of > human rights and subverts the very basis of its > guidelines. Manisha Sethi and Adeel Mehdi on behalf of the > JTSG, July 22 09.Your other query was: > 'The hue and cry raised for the youths for detention was so > immense, but not even a whimper for Prajna Thakur who is > detained with false "accusations"? Why the human rights > activists who were hoarse in crying for Binayak Sen have > lost the voice for the detention of these 11 humans without > evidence, is it because the faith do not teach violence but > relifion and men who are religious have a role to impose > their will on others in any guise, be it"human right" or > vote bank.? Is the rights of the terror accused different > from those involved in > terror.?' > I don't think I shall ever frame the question as broad and > general as you do. But yes, we should all think and decide > what we consider worth fighting for. > CheersAmbarien Al Qadar > > > > > >       > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pankhuree at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 01:16:45 2009 From: pankhuree at hotmail.com (pankhuree dube) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:46:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha, It occurs to me after reading this, that the biometric data of all Indians (once recorded for these ID cards), would then be available for sale on the international market. That is surveillance on an international scale. Science fiction writer Phillip Dick wrote about a future where commercials are tailored to every passerby by reading their eyeballs and matching it with the biometric data stored in databases. Who knew India would be where such a dystopian fantasy might be translated from fiction into fact? Thank you for sharing the updates on this fiasco with list readers, Pankhuree > Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:00:33 +0100 > From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 > > Dear All > > It is indeed very interesting to note that country with a population > which less than that of number of people living in Delhi will help > India in its UIDC project. The claim of this country is -domain > expertise-. > > As Mr.Katrin Melamed, business development manager for the Israeli > software industry avers according to the report below, "Israeli IT > firms with domain expertise in e-governance and homeland security will > bid for the unique ID card project jointly with Indian vendors, as > local participation is key to such projects dealing with critical > mass," Katrin Melamed, business development manager for the Israeli > software industry, told IANS here. > > 'Domain expertise' seems to be the spin phrase here. What 'domain > expertise' does Israel brings to the table is yet to be seen? The very > attribute of branding people with numbers which is seen as one of the > systematic and banal humiliations which the Nazi meted out to Jews is > practiced by Israelis...and now after 60 years this attribute becomes > -domain expertise-? Very very interesting indeed!! > > Maybe the culture industry of Hollywood should take notice and not > bore us with images of sad, angry, humiliated Jews showing their > Auschwitz numbers to each other, because after all it has become an > area of -domain expertise- these days. Maybe the world is ready, to be > shown a conversation happening between two Jewish men admiring Hitler > for his ingenuity in numbering them, even as they wait for their turn > to be taken to a gas chamber. > > or maybe I am completely wrong and completely ignorant about the > -harsh realities- and the pain of responsibility which governance > brings. > > However for the time being it seems, that there is business > opportunity to be availed. 1.5 Lakh crore rupees are up for grabs. > Israelis see an opportunity and they are bidding for it while getting > help from native informers aka Indian vendors, had I been in their > place maybe I would have thought on same lines. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/israeli-it-firms-to-bid-for-unique-id-card-project/ > > Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project > > Fakir Balaji > July 2nd, 2009 > > BANGALORE - Israeli IT firms will partner with Indian vendors to > jointly bid for the ambitious unique identification (ID) card project > of the Indian government, a visiting Israeli IT industry official has > said. > > "Israeli IT firms with domain expertise in e-governance and homeland > security will bid for the unique ID card project jointly with Indian > vendors, as local participation is key to such projects dealing with > critical mass," Katrin Melamed, business development manager for the > Israeli software industry, told IANS here. > > Melamed, who is leading an Israeli IT delegation on a week-long trip > to India, said many Israeli firms have developed the technology and > solutions for e-governance projects like ID cards with security > features such as biometric or fingerprints. > > The trip is sponsored by the Israel Export and International > Cooperation Institute (IEICI) and funded by the Israeli government. > > "Though we are a small nation of seven million, every Israeli citizen > has a smart card with personal details embedded in a chip. Our leading > IT firms have the architecture and the model for the Indian ID card > project, which is set to cover over a billion people," Melamed said > Wednesday on the margins of an IT seminar here. > > The government-funded project, to be implemented by the Unique > Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) under the chairmanship of > former Infosys Technologies co-chairman Nandan M. Nilekani, is > expected to create unique identification cards to all citizens by > 2011. > > The 14-member delegation, representing large, medium and small IT > firms are scouting for partnerships with Indian counterparts to > develop or customise software products or solutions for Indian and > global markets. > > "The delegation has interacted with leading IT firms such as TCS (Tata > Consultancy Services) in Mumbai early this week and are here for a > similar exercise with hi-tech firms like Infosys and Wipro. It will be > in Delhi Thursday for a similar exercise," said Elad Goz, Israeli > consul for economic affairs. > > The delegation is looking for partnerships in digital broadcast media, > legacy IT modernisation solutions, homeland security and e-governance. > > With about 3,000 indigenous IT firms, spanning hardware and software, > the Israeli hi-tech industry has grown exponentially with exports > alone accounting for $5.8 billion in 2008 as against $90 million in > 1990. > > "In the absence of a lucrative domestic market for historical and > social reasons, we are an export-oriented nation with only human > capital and limited natural resources due to scarce land and smaller > size of the country," Melamed pointed out. > > As a result, Israeli IT industry focuses more on research and > development (R&D), product innovation and technology upgrading to be > globally competitive in an ever-changing business environment. > > North America contributes about 40 percent to Israel's total IT > exports, while Europe accounts for 30 percent and the balance (30 > percent) is generated from rest of the world, including Asia. > > "Our unique geographic, geopolitical, demographic, and cultural > characteristics have combined to create a different software > development climate where innovation and entrepreneurship are the > norm, early adoption is the rule, and thinking 'out of the box' is a > day-to-day phenomenon," Rita Katzir, vice-president of Tel Aviv-based > i21-Ventures, said. > > As part of its 'Look Asia Policy' the Israeli government has decided > to expand industry and trade ties with India in diverse sectors, > including drip irrigation, agro-technology, water conservation, IT, > telecom and homeland security. > > "The trade balance between the two countries grew marginally to $4 > billion in 2008 from $3.3 billion in 2007 due to global meltdown. We > are keen to boost ties in the knowledge sector through partnerships, > joint ventures and venture funding," Goz averred. > > The non-profit IEICI, supported by the Israeli government and the > private sector, facilitates business ties, joint ventures and > strategic alliances between overseas and Israeli firms. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 02:07:23 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:37:23 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Veteran Leftist Hena Das passes away Message-ID: The Daily Star, July 21, 2009 VETERAN LEFTIST HENA DAS PASSES AWAY Staff Correspondent Eminent leader of women rights and leftist movement Hena Das died at Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujib Medical University (BSMMU) yesterday morning at the age of 85. She had been suffering from old age complications and breathed her last at 11:30am. Her body is kept at the BSMMU mortuary. The funeral may take place on Thursday after the arrival of her younger daughter from Germany on Wednesday. She will be taken to the offices of Communist Party of Bangladesh (CPB), Bangladesh Mahila Parishad and Teachers Association on Thursday. Then, she will be taken to the Central Shaheed Minar premises at 12 o'clock where people will get the opportunity to pay their last tribute to the selfless leader. She will be cremated in Narayanganj, said CPB leaders. Hena Das was admitted to the city's Labaid Hospital Friday morning soon after she had lost consciousness at her residence inside the Buet quarters. She was shifted to BSMMU Sunday afternoon. Leaders and activists of CPB and different rights organisations thronged the BSMMU at the news of her death. "She was a valiant lady and took part in different movements including the language movement and liberation war," said CPB General Secretary Mujahidul Islam Selim, adding that she also contributed a lot in teachers' movement and women rights movement. She also played a significant role in cultural movement and her dedication and activities will remain a source of inspiration for all, he added. Hena Das fought for building a humanitarian society throughout her life and also worked hard for the cause of women's rights, said Bangladesh Mahila Parishad President Ayesha Khanam. She was the vice president of the first committee of Mahila Parishad and served as its president for long eight years after the demise of Begum Sufia Kamal. "Hena Das is one of the persons whose sacrifice, devotion and activities inspired me in politics," said Agriculture Minister Matia Chowdhury while visiting the leader at BSMMU. She never compromised with her ideology and she was a rare person, Matia added. Hena Das was born in Sylhet on February 12, 1924. The anti-British movement influenced her while she was a class-VII student. In 1938, she joined progressive students' organisation, Students' Federation. She earned membership of Communist Party in 1942 and married Communist leader Rohinee Das in 1948. She organised women during the Nankar Movement in 1948-49 and later organised female tea garden workers for trade union to realise their rights. She came to Dhaka and took up teaching in 1958. She served as headmaster of a non-government school in Narayanganj. She joined the Liberation War in 1971 and distributed relief among the refugees who took shelter in India. She got involved with the Teachers' Association in 1978 and was the elected general secretary and vice president for long 14 years. She was one of the members of the first education commission headed by Dr Qudrat-e-Khuda. She got many awards. In 2001, she received the national award--Begum Rokeya Padak. She authored a number of books that include Amar Shikkha O Shikkhokota Jibon, Sritimoy Dingulo, Smritimoy Ekattor, Pancham Purush and Char Purusher Kahini. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 23 02:14:29 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:44:29 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Reply to Rajen's Concerns In-Reply-To: <880460.59563.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <520964.93629.qm@web24101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <880460.59563.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907221344w6f79a3eds271f63c45295c4c7@mail.gmail.com> Miss Malik...just to let you know that last time when I met Ambarien she...well... appeared like a woman to me. I am quite surprised to know she went for a sex change :) Did she? t From patrice at xs4all.nl Thu Jul 23 02:20:32 2009 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:50:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] National Identity Card ) A digital Pandora's box - 153 Message-ID: <57110.94.212.51.22.1248295832.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Upon fwding the original post to the 'Hippies frrom Hell' (aka Dutch hackers) list, as this is an issue that plays in the Netherlands also, the following comment came from Eduard de Jong, who was one of the early developpers of the Java card. Fwd fyi (reposted with permission) Cheers, p+2D! -------- Indeed, the SCOSTA specifcations for smart cards come back to hound! As a specification for cards go, they have nothing to offer but stagnation and increased cost. Theye where clearly drafted to created a local smart card industry, that would not be hindered by paying a licence fee for (commercially and technologically) superior specifications like Java Card (DISCLAIMER: the basic patents for JavaCard are in my name). The main technical failure in SCOSTA is to specify a card operating system rather than a card application. Interestingly, at the time SCOSTA was initiated, a public domain specifications for card applications for transport already existed, the ITSO specs, fully paid for by the UK DOT. Having created the desired local industry to deliver cards fort the exclusive, protected transport market th esuppliers now discover their is no other demand for their products, which do not meet what the rest of the world needs. So they change form being pulled into pushing: lobbying to use SCOSTA wherever a card is going to be issued in the sub-continent... The citizen ID card being the big fish there. Side stepping a discussion on the lerits or desirability of such cards, both in Europe and Austarlia a range of standards exists for eGgovernment/Id cards which could easily be used in India instead of hanging on to an outdated SCOSTA.. In Austarlia the states have gone to great length in developing these standards to be in the public domain. As for India, it looks that after having growing a tail, now that tail is (tries) wagging the dog.... eduard At 17:09 +0200 21/7/09, Patrice Riemens wrote: >A case of "when India speaks, the world listens"? (Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru) > > > >---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- >Subject: [Reader-list] (National Identity Card ) A digital Pandora's box - >153 >From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> >Date: Tue, July 21, 2009 15:53 >To: "Sarai Reader-list" >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Dear All, > >Here's a report published by The Hindu some years ago. MNIC/UIDC are >smart cards, which are run on Smart Card Operating System for >Transport Applications or SCOSTA based software. > >We need to pay attention to this report, particularly to two aspects >of the process through which consensus around technology of smart card >appears to have been achieved. > >The first one relates to the social dimension of the consensus >building exercise carried out by the government of India at the >national level. In this regard the report suggests, that there seems >to be wide spread disagreement amongst so called technical experts who >gave a green signal to this technology. > >Excerpt- > >Strangely enough, the Expert Committee chairman's report too took an >open-ended position with regard to technology choice, contrary to the >Apex Committee's recommendation. This was done apparently to >accommodate evolving technologies, such as contact and contact-less >(using wireless) `dual-interface' cards and larger storage capacity >cards, such as optical strip, for multiple applications. However, >Zarabi gave a dissenting note to the Chairman's report in November >2003. Veni Madhavan, however, declined to comment. But some people in >the computer science community question the MoRTH's wisdom of >appointing a person with private interests as the chairman of a >committee on matters of public interest. > >Then there were cautious views emanating from the then officers >representing the GOI too particularly around the issue of >"vendor-driven technologies" which is perhaps interpreted in the >official GOI jargon as G-B (Government-to-Business relationship) or in >terms of official Sarkaari rhetoric as maybe 'Bhaagidari'. > >Excerpt- > > IN a panel discussion at the recent Smart Card Tech-India 2005 >conference, with the theme "National ID Card - The Foundation of Trust >in e-Governance", Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and >Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioned against >"vendor-driven technologies". > >The second dimension relates to the technological compatibility of the >card itself. The report suggests that there maybe violations and >misinterpretations arising from the use prescribed by the so called >'Expert Committee' insofar as a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card is >concerned. > >Excerpt- > >While a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card would have easily met any >additional capacity that may be required by individual States, the >note has been carefully worded to defeat that very purpose. The note >says: "The microprocessor chip shall not carry any other information >not prescribed for the purpose." So, even if the microprocessor had >enough additional memory, it could not be used for any other >application that may be envisaged, say one's National ID, for which >the government has already initiated a pilot project for 3.2 million >people in 13 regions across the country. > >Some questions related to this issue- > >Why is only SCOSTA software used for national identity card? What >other technologies were considered? Why were they rejected? ON what >grounds? > >Did the GOI of India did any cost benefit analysis on using the SCOSTA >technology, if yes the what were the detailed findings? > >Who owns the patents for this technology? What are the conditions of >use of this technology? How is the issue of inter-operability dealt >with here? > >On what grounds did people like M.J. Zarabi, Chairman and Managing >Director, Semiconductor Complex Ltd., Chandigarh, gave a dissenting >note? Why did Veni Madhavan, a Computer Science Professor at the >Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore declined to present a comment >to the expert committee? Why was Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information >Technology and Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioning >against "vendor-driven technologies"? What were his reasons? > >Warm regards > >Taha > >http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20050812003902500.htm&date=fl2216/&prd=fline& > >SPOTLIGHT > >A digital Pandora's box > >R. RAMACHANDRAN >VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN > >The extra capacity added to the new smart card for car-owners gives no >added benefits but has pushed up the cost. > >IN a panel discussion at the recent Smart Card Tech-India 2005 >conference, with the theme "National ID Card - The Foundation of Trust >in e-Governance", Prakash Kumar, Secretary, Information Technology and >Administration Reforms, Government of Delhi, cautioned against >"vendor-driven technologies". To many members of the audience, it was >obvious what he was referring to. It was the legacy of the choice of >an inappropriate technology made by the Delhi administration of 2003 >in the introduction of IT in the road transport sector. Today, he >finds himself in the embarrassing situation of having to implement it >even though he disapproves of it. > >An important component of the much-hyped induction of IT in the >transport sector in many States - as part of the government's >nationwide e-governance initiative - is the smart card-based driving >licence and vehicle registration certificate (VRC). But, as the >process of implementing this scheme gets under way in many States, one >is also witnessing a number of petitions in the courts against the >choice and induction of the technology. And in many instances, the >cases have been dragged into the Supreme Court. > >As regards the technology, the main contentious issue relates to the >respective governments' invitation for bids for the supply of simple >microprocessor-based smart cards (with a minimum memory of 4 KB) for >driving licences, and an optical smart card which has an optical strip >(of memory 1.5 MB or more) in addition to the microprocessor chip (of >4 KB memory or more) for VRCs. Petitioners have contended that this is >in violation of the guidelines issued by the Central Ministry of Road >Transport and Highways (MoRTH) under the Central Motor Vehicles Act >and associated Rules. Since these only required that driving licences >and VRCs should have a minimum 4 kb memory on a microprocessor chip, >the States had no legal authority to insist upon an additional feature >like an optical strip. > >The basic guidelines issued by the Centre were: uniformity across the >country; readability throughout the country; inter-operability across >States; and non-proprietary or open-source technology that would allow >indigenous modification or development. Operationally, these >translated into conformity to ISO standards (ISO-7816-1, 2, 3), which >ensured uniformity and non-proprietary technology; standardised >hand-held terminals, which ensured readability everywhere; and >compliance to open source Smart Card Operating System for Transport >Applications (SCOSTA) software, based on ISO-7816-4, 8, 9 standards, >which ensured inter-operability. > >SCOSTA was developed by Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur, based >on specifications drawn up by an apex committee set up in 2000 by the >MoRTH - that included experts from the National Informatics Centre >(NIC) of the Ministry of Information Technology and Communications >(MCIT) and IIT-Kanpur, and representatives of industry. The SCOSTA >specifications were established to ensure that every card used for a >driving licence or a VRC is certified by a set of tests designated by >the NIC and IIT-K to ensure the usability of the smart card with the >same specifications by all States. > >The origin of the controversy can be traced to the MoRTH's gazette >notification GSR 513(E) of August 10, 2004, which set out the >specifications for smart cards as amendments to the Central Motor >Vehicle Rules. The footnote to the notification provided room for >(deliberate) arbitrariness and manipulation in the States' >interpretation of the Rules. There is, as a result, more than a hint >of corruption in the implementation of the programme in some States. >But more importantly, the cards do not conform to the basic >guidelines. > >It is instructive to go over the history of this footnote to >understand how the government machinery functions when implementing >off-the-shelf technologies in public schemes requiring large volumes >of a given product. Indeed, like the case of the smart card in the >transport sector, there are apparently other projects under the >e-governance initiative, which bear evidence of rather dubious >implementation. > >The smart card Apex Committee produced its first report, titled >"National Standard for the Driving Licence and Vehicle Registration >(Version 1.0)", in January 2001. Based on this, the MoRTH issued >Version 1.0 guidelines. Following this, several States issued tenders >for smart cards and some, like Gujarat, had already implemented the >scheme in part. However, these were at variance with the guidelines >mentioned above. Some of these, for example, had invited bids for the >microprocessor cum optical strip smart card. This was apparently >because of the lack of precise understanding of the technicalities by >State administrations, coupled with the entry of multiple technologies >into the country. > >To rectify the situation and in view of the technological >developments, Version 2.0 of the standards were evolved both for >back-end computerisation and for driving licences and VRCs. The >detailed specifications of SCOSTA, as well as the software `Saathi' >and `Vahan' (developed by the NIC), for back-end systems, formed part >of the Version 2.0 guidelines. These were issued in October 2001, >following which, in fact, some States withdrew their tender >notifications. > >The Apex Committee had considered various available technologies - >microprocessor, integrated-circuit memory and optical memory - in >detail, particularly keeping in view the security aspect as well as >the volume of information to be stored. For security, a Key Management >System was specified for use with SCOSTA and it was also noted that >the latter two technologies are pure memory storage technologies with >no key-encryption mechanism unlike the microprocessor-based smart >card. Accordingly, for enhanced security the committee recommended the >use of microprocessor technology (with contacts). > >As regards data size, it was reckoned that the volume of information >on a driving licence would be 1 kb and that on a VRC would be nearly 4 >kb. The committee, therefore, added that since in driving licences and >VRCs the data volume requirement is low, security considerations are >paramount. It also noted that microprocessor technology existed with a >memory range from 4 KB to 32 KB, and 62 KB memory was in the pipeline. > >Curiously enough, the MoRTH sought to issue some amendments to the >Central Motor Vehicle Rules concerning the smart card scheme for >driving licences and VRCs and a draft notification (GSR 42(E)) was >accordingly issued in January 2003, inviting public comments. This >contained a draft version of the note (reproduced in box) and its >import was essentially the same, which would virtually nullify the >Apex Committee's detailed standards. > >In July 2003, the MoRTH constituted an Expert Committee - which was >headed by V.P. Bhatkar, Chairman, ETH Research Lab., Pune, and >included M.J. Zarabi, Chairman and Managing Director, Semiconductor >Complex Ltd., Chandigarh, and Veni Madhavan, a Computer Science >Professor at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore - to resolve >the ambiguities arising from technology variations as well as to make >appropriate recommendations on the choice of technology that was >non-proprietary, easily available, and suitable for field operations >and easy handling, and the cost of which would be within the fee >structure prescribed under the Rules. The Expert Committee also had to >look into issues arising from the draft notification. > >Strangely enough, the Expert Committee chairman's report too took an >open-ended position with regard to technology choice, contrary to the >Apex Committee's recommendation. This was done apparently to >accommodate evolving technologies, such as contact and contact-less >(using wireless) `dual-interface' cards and larger storage capacity >cards, such as optical strip, for multiple applications. However, >Zarabi gave a dissenting note to the Chairman's report in November >2003. Veni Madhavan, however, declined to comment. But some people in >the computer science community question the MoRTH's wisdom of >appointing a person with private interests as the chairman of a >committee on matters of public interest. > >In his dissenting letter, commenting on the note in the gazette >notification, Zarabi said: "The words `any other information storage >technology' opens up a Pandora's box. This addition is being exploited >for the backdoor entry of optical strip as part of the standard, which >technology had been... discarded by the Apex Committee." > >This footnote, he said, "may cascade into a serious issue of induction >of proprietary technology and inter-operability issues, besides >encumbering the public at large with costs attached to a monopoly >source of supply and also risking the future and current >implementation at the hands of a single vendor, all of which is >against public policy, public interest and national security". He >observed that no process of standards definition and certification >procedure existed for optical strip or any other storage technology >other than the microprocessor smart card. > >For the same reason, he said that the report's reference to other >technologies in any form would run counter to the efforts made for >SCOSTA. "If a smart card and optical technology or any other medium is >put together on the same card," he said, "it will lead to ambiguity as >well as problems of certification by the NIC." Because, one machine >readable zone (MRZ) on the card is open and certified by the NIC and >other MRZ in the other medium is proprietary and patented technology, >the patent being held by Drexler Corporation, U.S.A. > >He pointed out that since SCOSTA specified only the standards for >microprocessor, optical strip is not compliant with SCOSTA >specifications. "We do not recognise optical strip cards and their use >is completely unjustified," pointed out Rajat Moona, a Computer >Science Professor at IIT-K who was associated with the development of >SCOSTA. > >The hand-held terminals and field infrastructure specified by the Apex >Committee, Zarabi said, also did not support optical strips and these >required special hardware, which was neither specified nor >standardised thus making field operability difficult. In the case of >optical strip, in fact, according to him, read and write hardware was >yet to be designed for mass use. > >He added that any ambiguity in the technology, if allowed, would push >up the costs of the plastic card, and optical strip, being >proprietary, is not available freely and is available only at higher >monopolistic prices. Patent rights (USPTO No. 6390130) were held by >Drexler Corp. and there are about 94 patents, which have been reserved >for optical technology, making it unavailable for further indigenous >development, Zarabi pointed out. The technology is licensed through >Drexler's 100 per cent subsidiary, Laser Card Corporation, U.S., to >various companies which only had sales rights in specified regions. > >The chairman's report, of course, overruled all of Zarabi's >contentions, his objection to optical strip technology, in particular. >However, Bhatkar endorsed his point about proprietary technologies and >said that this could be ensured by requiring that "ISO or other well >recognised international standards be complied with". Accordingly, he >listed a set of ISO standards, which, according to him, were >applicable to optical memory cards. But the point to be emphasised is >that, even if ISO standards for these were evolving and could be >applied, these had not been specified for use with SCOSTA and the NIC >had not evolved standardised tests for these either. More important, >the issue of security of optical storage still remained and Bhatkar >did not address this crucial issue. > >Bhatkar, therefore, recommended not a removal of the gazetted footnote >but an amendment to it to the effect that the other storage >technologies must conform to the relevant ISO or other international >standards. But curiously enough, Bhatkar's amendments to the footnote >were ignored and Alok Rawat, Joint Secretary in the MoRTH in August >2004, issued the final notification GSR 513(E) without any reference >to international standards for the optical strip. Speaking to >Frontline on authorisation from Union Minister for Transport T.R. >Baalu, Rawat said that the Centre had taken this step because several >State governments had demanded additional capacity. > >While a 32 KB or a 64 KB smart card would have easily met any >additional capacity that may be required by individual States, the >note has been carefully worded to defeat that very purpose. The note >says: "The microprocessor chip shall not carry any other information >not prescribed for the purpose." So, even if the microprocessor had >enough additional memory, it could not be used for any other >application that may be envisaged, say one's National ID, for which >the government has already initiated a pilot project for 3.2 million >people in 13 regions across the country. > >So what is the huge additional capacity doing in the transport sector >cards? There is little doubt that it is not benefiting the average >consumer. It is in this context that the Delhi government's IT >Secretary's comment on "vendor-driven technologies" acquires worrying >proportions. >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Eduard de Jong From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 23 03:07:57 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:37:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907221437p7fe5d790p60fc1c673a3f8102@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pankhuree, The view of a State turning towards a dystopian society and an Orwellian future is a well documented one. I'd be very surprised if all Indians, (actually...ummmmm..... we don't really know who an Indian- exactly is-, at least legally) but for the sake of an argument- all Indians, could be documented accurately without any fault. We are a very poor country, although there are many of us brave fellow citizens who like to believe that India is the next superpower. I feel that it is a worthy dream. Let me tell you that I deeply desire that one day all Indians, irrespective of their caste or creed could actually shop in the comforts of these air conditioned malls. Maybe then I wouldn't mind at all, if these shops were to project some commercials tailored to the needs of a billion plus consumers. However I fear that in a rush to create a database of our fingerprints and what not, is our government not fulfilling its basic obligation towards these companies, which is- to first convert a billion plus electorate to a billion plus consumers. A billion consumers who are at par with anyone else in this world. It appears as if, by introducing UIDC and by placing Nandu there at the top, our government is tailoring to the needs of only one sector- IT sector, at the peril of ignoring all the other sectors particularly , the nascent retail sector. As things stand now, you tell me, what use could a data comprising of under-nourished, poor consumer would be, to the Tescos, the Tatas, and the Toyotas of the world? So sure, dystopian society it would be- but it would be funny in a way, wouldn't it, to see a whole lot of manual scavengers, farmers on the verge of suicide, tribals (who are full on organic BTW), urban poor, migrants laborers and naxals...yes them lot too...just hopping around the country with smart digital tokens of Automatic Identification and Data Capture (AIDC) technology and other assorted Card Technologies, Data Communications Technologies, Bar Code Technologies and Radio Frequency Identification Technologies etc. These days they are issuing ration documents for people who are Below the Poverty Line in the name of Sania Mirza later maybe during the period of utopia ushered by UIDC we may issue cards in the name of Mahtma Gandhi :) Thanks for your reply, though. Warm regards Taha From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 23 04:48:12 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:18:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Reminder: Solidarity with Iran - July 25, a video, a song. Message-ID: <19878673.1248304692670.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey People - this July 25, there's an amazing series of events to support democracy in Iran. This is a song I did with the Iranian singer, Sussan Deyhim, which will be presented as part of the protest situation - we're presenting it with United 4 Iran. The poem is based on a work by the poet Rumi from several centuries ago, but it still resonates with today's geopolitics - it's in Farsi, but for English speakers, there will be a translation posted. In conjunction with United 4 Iran, a group of political activists, artists, writers, and musicians have organized a global protest in conjunction with many other movements. If you have a moment, please check out the material, and organize a local event to support the people of Iran. Watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw7_Pa1K3oU and check out the situation:http://united4iran.org/ Join this unprecedented wave of global citizen activism for the people of Iran. On July 25, participate in an event in one of more than 50 cities around the world. http://united4iran.org/locations I'm in a remote area of the planet, but am trying to get word out. We did the video over the last couple of days via remote edting. Already U2 and many other musicians and artists have joined. For example, U2 is projecting the lyrics of the song during their concerts... Please spread word! The song is downloadable for free from: http://music.artists4freedom.net/2009/07/dj-spooky-susan-deyhim-azadi-the-new-complexity/ in peace, Paul aka Dj Spooky From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 08:42:40 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:42:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] NHRC gives clean chit to Delhi police in Batla encounter case Message-ID: <6353c690907222012g68c1873fw4f4dcc9031d2337d@mail.gmail.com> NHRC gives clean chit to Delhi police in Batla encounter case *New Delhi: (Indian Express)* National Human Rights Commission on Wednesday gave clean chit to Delhi police in Batla House encounter case. "We are clearly of the opinion that having regard to the material placed before us, it cannot be said that there has been any violation of human rights by action of the police", the NHRC said in its 30 page report on the encounter in September last year. The action taken by police in which two persons died "is fully protected by law," said the NHRC. NHRC today filed its enquiry report before the Delhi High Court in a sealed cover. A Bench headed by Chief Justice A P Shah took the report on record and asked the Commission to put the contents of the report on NHRC's website. The court also directed the Commission to give copy of the report to an NGO on whose plea it had directed the enquiry. The High Court had on May 21 asked the NHRC to complete within two months its enquiry into the controversial encounter in which two suspected Indian Mujahideen terrorists and a police officer were killed. Encounter specialist Delhi Police Inspector M C Sharma was killed during the police action against suspected terrorists on September 19, 2008 in the aftermath of serial blasts in Batla House locality in the national capital. The court had directed the enquiry on a plea of the NGO, Act Now For Harmony and Democracy, that questioned the police version of the encounter. Two suspected Indian Mujahideen terrorists who were killed were identified as Atif Amin and Mohd Sajid. Two other IM suspects Mohd Saif and Zeeshan were arrested from the Batla House area. The incident took place a week after serial blasts rocked the capital killing 26 people and injuring 13 others. From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 09:24:26 2009 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:24:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where the state pays for teachers of hate-Parveen Swami(in Hindu) Message-ID: <13df7c120907222054ibff713ex371d3b2e65dfea74@mail.gmail.com> *The Jammu and Kashmir government has decided to hire hundreds of schoolteachers linked to the Jammat-e-Islami. * Back in 1945, Islamist ideologue Abul Ali Mawdudi called on his followers to “change the old tyrannical system and establish a just new order by the power of the sword.” He demanded that members of the party founded in his name “seize the authority of state for, an evil system takes root and flourishes under the patronage of an evil government, and a pious cultural order can never be established until the authority of government is wrested from the wicke d.” Last week, the National Conference-Congress government quietly moved to help realise Mawdudi’s ugly dream. Hundreds of jobs, a Cabinet decision taken on July 14 mandates, will be handed out to schoolteachers linked to the Jammu Kashmir Jamaat-e-Islami, the party set up in Mawdudi’s name. More than 440 Falah-i-Aam Trust teachers will now be inducted into the State school system. Seventy-four unskilled workers who lost their jobs when Falah-i-Aam schools were closed down in 1990 will also get State government jobs. For years, successive governments in Jammu and Kashmir have ruled out fresh recruitment, saying the State can barely meet the salaries of its existing employees. Only recently were Rehbar-i-Zirat agricultural scientists, who are provided a stipend if they cannot get a job, told that there was no early prospect of employment. By hiring the Falah-i-Aam teachers, the National Conference evidently hopes to build bridges with its decades-old Islamist adversaries. But the costs of the decision could prove horrific. Early in the 20th century, Kashmir saw the emergence of the religious neo-fundamentalist movement that was to lay the foundation for the rise of the Jamaat-e-Islami. From the outset, education was a core part of the neo-fundamentalist programme. In the minds of the religious right, education was an instrument In 1899, Mirwaiz Rasul Shah — whose grandnephew and clerical heir is today the All Parties Hurriyat Conference chief — started the Anjuman Nusrat ul-Islam (Society for the Victory of Islam). It aimed not only to give Kashmir’s nascent middle class modern scientific education but also eradicate folk Islam and create a religion-centred political consciousness. The Anjuman funded the creation of the Islamiya High School in 1905. Rasul Shah’s successor, Mirwaiz Ahmadullah, went on to set up the Oriental College in Srinagar. In turn, Ahmadullah’s successor, Mirwaiz Yusuf Shah, set up Kashmir’s first printing press, and used the two magazines it published to rail against what he saw as heretical practices embedded in Kashmiri folk Islam. Perhaps the most important voice of the neo-fundamentalist movement was the Jamaat-e-Islami. Drawing on Mirwaiz Rasul Shah’s early efforts, it went on to create an educational empire. Born into a family long-linked to Kashmiri Sufism, Tarabali had come to despise the faith of his parents, seeing it as the cause of the political weakness of the people of Kashmir. Early in his life, he encountered the work of the seminal Islamist ideologue, Maulana Abul Ala Mawdudi, through the Islamist journal *Tarjuman al-Quran*. Tarabali also despised the socialism of Jammu and Kashmir’s most important political figure, Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah. Having started his career as a teacher at the Islamiya High School, Tarabali went on to work at government-run educational institutions at Chrar-e-Sharif, Baramulla and Shopian. Before he left government service to devote himself full time to Jamaat-e-Islami work, Tarabali had succeeded in recruiting dozens of young men from elite Pir caste families. Most were from Baramulla, Shopian, Srinagar, and Pulwama — the very areas which have seen clashes between police and stone-throwing mobs since last summer. “Islam, for them,” scholar Yoginder Sikand has noted in his seminal study of the Jamaat-e-Islami, “was a call for political assertion in a context of perceived Muslim powerlessness.” Among the young who joined the Jamaat was Syed Ali Shah Geelani — now the patriarch of Kashmir’s Islamist movement. Geelani, like Tarabali and many other Jamaat leaders, started his adult life as a schoolteacher. He first worked at the government-run primary school in Srinagar’s Pather Masjid area, and then at the Rainawari high school. Many teachers at the Rainawari school, interestingly, went on to become influential figures in the Jamaat-e-Islami. >From the outset, the Jamaat understood the centrality of education to its political project. According to the account of Pakistani scholar Tahir Amin, Jamaat schools were intended to prepare the ground for a “silent revolution.” The Jamaat believed, Mr. Sikand has written, “that a carefully planned Indian conspiracy was at work to destroy the Islamic identity of the Kashmiris, through Hinduizing the school syllabus and spreading immorality and vice among the youth. It was alleged that the government of India had despatched a team to Andalusia headed by the Kashmir Pandit [politician and state Home Minister] D.P. Dhar, to investigate how Islam was driven out of Spain and to suggest measures as to how the Spanish experiment could be repeated in Kashmir, too.” In Jammu, where the Jamaat feared that Muslims battered in Partition violence would give up Islam, Maulana Ghulam Ahmad Ahrar called for the setting up of schools to spread education and Islamic consciousness. Not long after independence, the Jamaat set up the first of what would become a network of schools in Srinagar’s Nawab Bazaar, with five students and one teacher. The organisation developed its own textbooks, built around a curriculum that included English, Arabic, Urdu, mathematics and Islamic studies. The Jamaat cadre were appointed instructors. In time, many Jamaat-run schools evolved into higher secondary institutions. Students, Mr. Sikand records an observer as saying, were “inspired to work for the victory of Islam, jihad in the path of Allah, freedom and self-determination of the Kashmiri people.” Many of the students, Pakistani scholar Alifuddin Turabi has recorded in an essay on the contribution of educational institutions to the Kashmiri secessionist movement, went on to play a key role in the jihad that began in 1989. During the Emergency, Sheikh Abdullah cracked down on the Jamaat. Some 125 schools run by it, with over 550 teachers and 25,000 students, were banned. So were another 1,000 evening schools run by the organisation, which reached out to an estimated 50,000 boys and girls. In one speech, Abdullah described the Jamaat schools as “the real source for spreading communal poison.” But Jammu and Kashmir’s crackdown on the Jamaat proved short-lived. In 1977, the party founded the Falah-i-Aam trust and charged the Doda-based Islamist activist Saadullah Tantray with reviving its school network. The Jamaat also formed a student wing, the Islami Jamaat-e-Tulaba. Helped by Saudi Arabia-based Islamist organisations, the IJT soon grew into a powerful force in schools and universities. In 1979, the IJT was granted membership of the World Organisation of Muslim Youth, a controversial Saudi-funded body which financed many Islamist groups that later turned to terrorism. The next year, the IJT organised a conference in Srinagar which was attended by dignitaries from across West Asia, including the Imam of the mosques of Mecca and Medina, Abdullah bin-Sabil. By the end of the decade, the IJT had formally committed itself to an armed struggle against the Indian state. Its president, Sheikh Tajamul Husain — now a mid-ranking leader of the secessionist movement — told journalists in Srinagar that Kashmiris did not consider themselves Indian, and that the forces stationed there were an “army of occupation.” Mr. Husain also called for the establishment of an Islamic state. A year later, in 1981, he reiterated his call to his followers to “throw out” the Indian “occupation.” In 1990, as the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir gathered momentum, the state cracked down on the Jamaat-e-Islami once more. The party was banned, and the Falah-i-Aam schools were shut down. Promises were made that the teachers would be brought into the State school system. However, fearful that the Falah-i-Aam teachers would misuse their position to spread the Jamaat message, successive governments went slow. No great imagination is needed to see what the Jamaat hopes to get from the party affiliates whose salaries will now be paid by the Jammu and Kashmir government — and the tragedy that could lie ahead. In the Jamaat’s view, scholar Mohammad Ishaq Khan has noted, “Kashmiri Muslims need to be converted afresh.” In 1945, Tarabali called for the institution of an authentic Islam “because of whose truth and universalism the cultures and even languages of the most civilised countries of the world were abandoned by their people.” For his part, Mawdudi warned believers that under a secular state, “the civilisation and way of life which he regards as wicked, the education system which he views as fatal: all these will be so relentlessly imposed on him, his home and his family, that it will be impossible to avoid them.” Chief Minister Omar Abdullah — whose secular credentials are impeccable — must act to prevent the poisoning of the State’s school education system -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 23 09:25:52 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:55:52 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] No to Farcical Enquiries; Shame on the NHRC for its Partisanship Message-ID: <686518.94832.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all,The JTSG's response to the NHRC's clean chit on Batla House encounter follows:No to Farcical Enquiries; Shame on the NHRC for its Partisanship  Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group rejects the NHRC’s report on the Batla House ‘encounter’, which gives a clean chit to the Delhi Police. The NHRC claims that on the basis of the “material placed before us, it cannot be said that there has been any violation of human rights by the actions of police”.  Indeed, we would like to know what material was placed before the NHRC for inspection. The NHRC enquiry into the case, one will remember, came far too late, and that too at the insistence of the High Court. For months, the NHRC refused to take any initiative to independently enquire into the ‘encounter’ which several civil rights groups, including JTSG, deemed suspect.  The NHRC enquiry was carried out in an inexplicably secret manner; even applications by residents of Azamgarh to depose before the Commission were not acknowledged by the NHRC. If people of Azamgarh, the family members of the accused and killed boys, civil rights groups who have been working and campaigning on the issue were never heard by the Commission, we wonder what was the material that was placed before the Commission. It appears that NHRC, like the Lieutenant Governor prior to this, was satisfied by hearing the police version alone.  The JTSG Report, Encounter at Batla House: Unanswered Questions, a damning indictment of the police version had been submitted to the Commission earlier this year. By ignoring all contrary voices, the NHRC has proved itself to be a brazenly partisan body, and damaged its own standing and independent credibility.In its bid to carry out the dictats of the State, the NHRC even chose to forgot that the Delhi Police had consistently violated even its own guidelines about encounter killings. Worse still, a body which is supposed to act in the interests of the human rights of the country’s citizens, pronounces that an ‘encounter’ did not involve any human rights violation only tells us about its flawed and distorted understanding of human rights and subverts the very basis of its guidelines. Sd/-Manisha Sethi and Adeel Mehdi on behalf of the JTSGThanksAmbarien Al Qadar From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 10:06:06 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:06:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Folktales: Shabrang-Prince-Thief Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907222136y3a67751dgf94be922d8076c2f@mail.gmail.com> Shabrang-Prince-Thief Once, long ago, the King of Kashmir went a-hunting in the jungle. As the sun hung low in the western sky, he gave chase to a magnificent stag and was carried farther and farther away from his capital. In the hour of sunset, he found himself in a lovely garden. Strolling about among the exquisitely laid-out flower beds was a beauteous maiden, alone and unattended. "A princess, surely", thought the King, "but how proud and arrogant she looks." She, on her part, did not as much as throw a glance in his direction. Stung to the quick, the King muttered just above a whisper, "I would that some prince took you for his bride and then abandoned you in this very garden " The Princess (for she was, in truth, one) tossed her head in disdain," I would that someone marry you and bear you a son who will wed your own daughter:" she retorted with a pout, as she walked away. That was, of course, more than the King could bear. But he had been deeply smitten by the maiden's charms. "Come what may, I must marry her," he thought as he rode back to his palace. Next morning, " He summoned his Vizier and the royal go-between. He bid them go post-haste to the Princess's father, who ruled the neighbouring kingdom and negotiate for her hand in marriage. That ruler, as one might, imagine, was flattered by the suit of no less a personage than the King of Kashmir. And it wasn't long before the messenger came back to announce the success of their mission. A week later, the King of Kashmir rode out at the head of a glittering cavalcade to fetch his bride. People stared in wide-eyed wonder as he passed by. When he rode back with the proud Princess, the citizens again lined up all along the way. How they cheered their beauteous new Queen. There was plenty of rejoicing all over the land, music and revelry, feasting and alms-giving. They were happy - everyone, save the bride. Yes, she, poor thing, was installed in the harem, and that was the last she saw of her royal husband. She languished in those cold, inhospitable apartments. The King would not visit her at all. "For what nameless, hideous sin am I being thus punished?" the Princess wept, wringing her hands. Then, in a flash, she recalled that first encounter in her garden. The King's vexation and his muttered oath. But she was as patient and clever as she was proud. '"That was a very foolish episode altogether,' she said to herself. "But if the King sticks to his threat, I must not, indeed, forget my own retort." After two months of this existence, she sought the King's permission and left on a "visit to her parents," as she put it. Did that not please the King's foolish vanity? "Ha, ha, ha," he exulted. "There, that will teach her to tilt her nose at strangers." Little did it strike him that he was being very cruel. All because of a moment's annoyance. Of the maiden's sharp rejoinder - "Why waste time on so idle a fancy?" he thought aloud. For many month's, the Princess took abode with her parents. Then, as if on a sudden impulse, she left on a secret journey. To the King of Kashmir, camping in a distant part of his country, they brought word one evening, that a veiled woman sought audience with him. She was, by all signs, possessed of great wealth and beauty, they declared, but she would not say who she was. The King's curiosity was stirred. He called on this mysterious lady himself, and was admitted into her apartments. How she captivated his heart, one cannot tell, but the king soon became a slave to her slightest whim. For a month they lived in this manner - the disguised Princess (for she was none other) and the infatuated King, who hardly guessed he had been ensnared by the very woman he had discarded. When one morning she protested she must return to her own country, they exchanged rings as a token of everlasting love. Back under her parents' roof, the Princess bore a son as lovely as you could ever desire. Her parents, who had learnt of her clever stratagem to win her husband's favours, rejoiced in their grandson. They named him Shabrang. Little Prince Shabrang grew up into a charming young boy as smart as he was handsome. He excelled his companions both at his studies and on the playground. But his mother had other plans for him. Nothing would satisfy her but that he should become the most cunning thief in all the country. So she summoned all those skilled in thieving to instruct her son. To little Shabrang it was all fun; what did the innocent lad know of right and wrong? Soon he became light of finger, nimble and stealthy of movement and dextrous beyond all compare. He would steal the very morsel from your mouth with the same ease that he would snatch away the jewels on one's person. Guess at the perfection he had attained. For his final test, his mother led him out to the foot of a steep crag and pointed to an eagle's eyrie. "Look, my child," she said," there on top is the mother eagle brooding on her egg. Fetch me the egg if you can, without disturbing the bird." No sooner had she spoken than Shabrang snipped himself to the waist. Hand on hand, he crept up the sheer face of the rock. Not a breath of sound. Silent as a shadow, he gained the top. The bird still gazed into the lonely spaces of the blue sky. Poised for a fraction of a second on the summit, Shabrang sketched out deft fingers. Then, he was slipping down inch by inch in the same death-like silence. As he held out the prize to his mother, she folded him in her arms with pride. Tears rolled down her eyes. "My child, you are heir to the throne of Kashmir," she said, speaking to him for the first time on the subject. "Go forth and seek employment under your father. Serve him with skill and utter diligence, and win his heart. Not for one moment let him guess your parentage. When he offers his daughter to you in marriage, say you can do naught without your mother's blessing. Send for me then." So Prince Shabrang journeyed far to his father's kingdom. To find employment in the royal household was easy enough -the lad had engaging looks and a pleasing wit. It was but a short step to catch the King's eye. The rest was simple. Day by day he rose higher in his master's favour. The King would have none other for his personal attendant. Prince Shabrang, however, led a double life. The urge to practise the skill he had been taught was strong upon him. In the darkness of the night, while the city slept, he stole out on noiseless feet. How easy it seemed to him to steal from the mansions of the rich! There was no lack that he could not pick, and no treasure, howsoever jealously guarded, that he could not snatch away. As for the guards who paced the city's streets, he just snapped his fingers at them! So, in time, the tale of Shabrang's depredations got known. Of course, none guessed who the culprit was. They only knew he was cleverer than any they had known in the past, and most elusive. To the King's court came people bemoaning their losses, and crying out aloud for protection. "We shall be robbed of everything we possess, great Sire!" they wailed, "unless the guards redouble their vigil and catch the villain." What could the perplexed King do? He sent for the chief of the city police, and ordered him, on pain of dismissal, to apprehend the rogue. It was midnight and pitch dark as the Police Chief wandered about the city's maze of lanes and alleys. He whistled softly to himself and twirled his moustache. No thief would get past him! No hiding-place but he peered into it, no suspicious loiterer but he pounced upon him. "Ha, who is this?" He exclaimed under his breath as a shadow flitted past, and he gave chase. When he dragged the struggling figure into the light of a street-lamp, he saw it was only a young maiden. "What, pray, are you doing at this ghostly hour?" he demanded in his most ferocious tone, to hide his chagrin. Shivering, the girl brought out, "The thief you have been looking for is somewhere about. I heard his stealthy footsteps. He may be here in a moment ....0-o-oh! I am afraid." "Calm yourself, silly !" the chief admonished her. "Let me think.... I shall lay a trap for the scoundrel." There was a soft interruption from the girl. "If you will pardon me ...I suggest you disguise yourself Why, we might exchange our garments.' She clapped her hands with delight. "Yes and stand beside the well yonder and pretend to be drawing water. Now, dome you agree that's an excellent plan" The Police Chief fell in with the scheme readily. The girl is smart, he thought. Wrapped in her pheran, he walked to the well. But poor, innocent man, what did he know of its crude mechanism? When he tugged violently at the rope, he was thrown off his balance. Next moment he was dangling at the end of the rope, just above the water's edge, inside the shaft of the well. Who was there now to pay heed to his cries for help? From somewhere above his head he heard the maiden's mocking laughter. "They will pull you out at dawn, my friend. Now I may go about in safety!" That, as you must have guessed already, was our hero, Shabrang. Were the honest citizens thrown into panic and confusion? The Police Chief dangling at the end of a rope, to be the laughing stock of every ragamuffin in town. The thief slipping through the fingers of the guards! "Preposterous!" they shouted with one accord. So, in the palace yard, the people raised another big clamour! The King was at his wits' end. Nothing could now satisfy him save the Vizier's undertaking the mission himself. The Vizier, of course, did not relish the task of patrolling the city's twisting alleyways by night. But carry out the King's injunction he must. His horse ambled along leisurely. Its hooves beat out a plaintive tune on the ancient cobblestones. Suddenly the Vizier espied, by the flickering light of a lantern, an old, wrinkled woman grinding maize by the roadside. "What keeps you up so late in the night granny?" he enquired. And on an idle impulse, added, "Have you by, any chance seen our champion rogue whereabouts?" "I wouldn't say No, I wouldn't say Yes," the old dame answered in a shrill voice. "There are funny sounds I have been hearing for some time. Well, he may be close by, for all I know.' It was the same ruse all over again. The "old woman" had quickly persuaded the thoughtless Vizier to wear her rags and to sit at the grinding stone. Shabrang (again it was the Prince-Thief in disguise) was soon riding away into the night on the Vizier's horse! There was a hullabaloo in the city next morning. Hundreds of people tumbled out into the streets crying that their hoarded treasures had been stolen. The Vizier had been discovered in an old woman's rags grinding maize by the roadside. What a disgrace! The King was beside himself with mortification. He stormed a good deal, while his courtiers listened with heads bowed in shame. "You are a set of idle, scatter-brained good-for-nothings! This thief has every one of us tied in knots. Listen, if the thief proclaims himself, we will give him our daughter in marriage and straightaway bestow half of our kingdom upon him. He is a better man than all of you put together, I am sure." In the silence that followed, Shabrang stepped forth, looking like a young god. "Is that a pledge, Sire?" he enquired. The King stared at the impudent youngster. "Yes, indeed," he said and stared the harder. What was so familiar about the lad's features? His thoughts chased round and round this teasing question. "I am the thief you are looking for, Sire;" Shabrang announced amidst pin-drop silence." If you must have proof, I'll restore to its rightful owner every single thing that has been stolen in the city. Choose the hour, my lord, and it shall be done!" The King's eyes softened. He had taken a great fancy to this handsome boy. And this confession of a surpassing skill inclined his heart towards the youngster even more strongly. But Shabrang would not marry the princess until his mother had been sent for. "I can do naught without my mothers counsel, Sire,' he protested. When Shabrang's mother appeared before the King of Kashmir she handed him the ring he had given her as a love token. "Shabrang is your son, my lord," said she. "How can he ever marry his own sister?" The King nodded his head, but he hardly understood. And Prince, Shabrang's mother, with gentle raillery, recalled the long-forgotten episode-the tale of an encounter in a garden, an idle oath and the angry retort that it had called forth. There were tears in the King's eyes as he embraced his queen - tears at the same time of happiness and penitence. As for Prince Shabrang, he was proclaimed heir to the throne of Kashmir amidst a round of festivities seldom before equalled in splendour. Source: Tales of Kashmir by Somnath Dhar From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 10:10:41 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:10:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Challenge of New Fundamentalist Intifada Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907222140r2359f1fet95edb7c53c4fca2e@mail.gmail.com> Challenge of New Fundamentalist Intifada Ajay Chrungoo 23 Jul 2009 Separatists go for the Overkill The headlines of local newspapers in the Kashmir Valley have been blaring with relentless intensity… July 09 - Woman’s rape, murder rocks Kupwara; July 08 - Asrar’s killing sparks massive protests in Srinagar. July 07 - Bomb hurled at Baramulla police station, 3 grenade explosions in 2 days; July 06 - explosions rock Srinagar, Sopore; July 05 - Army had abducted Basharat: Family; July 04 - Larkipora teenager released, Protests in Islamabad; July 02 - Protests in curfewed Varmul; youth succumbs, Varmul toll 4; July 01 - Police fire smoke shells at mourners, thousand attend funeral of 19 year old Amir. Public mobilization campaigns and demonstrations reflecting seditious and secessionist intensity more than anti-government sentiment have been going on in Kashmir Valley since the police recovered the bodies of two ladies, Niloufer and Aisya, at Shopian in Pulwama district, on 30 May. The separatist mobilizations have reflected strange eagerness which needs to be understood and placed in a proper perspective. The spate of hartals and orchestrated violence on the streets left a large section of people bewildered, contrary to propaganda by the local media. This bewilderment of the general public with the methodology adopted by the separatist leadership and the response of the government is not a fiction as many Kashmir experts sitting in Delhi would like us to believe. It involves a significant section of population in the Valley, and occasionally their voices find expression in the columns of an otherwise partisan local media. Syed Rafiuddin Bukhari, columnist, Rising Kashmir, provides a glimpse: “Is Kashmir really fragile or has it been made to behave like that? Does this question boggle the mind of those who cover, analyze and interpret the political perceptions! This week’s incidents in Baramulla have shown that no one controls Kashmir, but only those who want to keep the pot boiling… in Baramulla where the police was handling a simple case of kidnapping of a 15 year old girl from Binner. The accused in the case was identified and one of the accomplices was rounded up. His wife went to the police station to seek his release but was not obliged. She came out and alleged that the police passed indecent remarks at her. This worked like jungle fire and the whole town was up in flames… it needs an explanation as to why the young Kashmiris should fall prey to such a situation in which four young boys give their blood for something which is not part of the struggle.” The culprit and this lady had known links with a local political party. The over-eagerness of separatist formations to go for overkill was manifest from the day of the recovery of the dead bodies of Niloufer and Asiya in Shopian and the initial bungling of government response. In Shopian, local discourse reflected that people never believed the role of CRPF or Army in the killings. People asked why the bodies of the ladies were left just outside the CRPF camp if CRPF personnel had committed the crime. People suspected the moral integrity of the husband of Niloufer. Her own relatives were less enthusiastic about the public exposure of the affair. Justice Jan Commission brought this facet into the open. The report has undermined separatist mobilization more than anything else in Shopian, because it has found resonance with the common perception of the people. The Justice Jan Commission recorded the rift between the two families from Tukru and Bongam in Shopian district. In April-May 2007, Niloufer eloped with Shakeel Ahmad Ahangar against the wishes of her family. The Commission noted, “It will be in place to mention here that Niloufer Jan belongs to a “Peer” family which is treated in the society with the degree of respect and honour for their upper class status, where as Shakeel Ahmad Ahangar belongs to “Khaar” family which is included in the other backward classes of the society. This marriage had given birth to a serious hatred of Peer family towards Ahangar family. It is reliably learnt that Zeerak Shah (brother of Niloufer), along with his friends, had even threatened the Ahangar family of dire consequences if Niloufer is not handed over to her family.” The Commission recorded that after the burial of Niloufer and Asiya, Zeerak Shah pitched a tent at Tukroo and gathered his friends, relatives, and other villagers, blocked the road at Tukroo, smashed window panes of civil and government vehicles, and raised anti-India and pro-freedom slogans. The commission took note of the fact that Shakeel was known for his immoral activities and had amassed assets disproportionate to his known sources of income. “Shakeel Ahmad Ahangar was working with his brothers at welding workshop at Shopian. He eloped with Niloufer Jan in 2007 and went outside Shopian. After this return he started his own business by opening a shop of readymade furniture items near police station Shopian… in October 2008, Shakeel purchased an orchard (1 kanal 16 marla) in Nagbal-Dehgam for about 5.30 lakhs. He also owns a Maruti car and maintains a good living standard. Further it is learnt that he does not carry a good reputation among the society and is being known for his immoral activities.” It can be safely presumed that these facts would have been known to separatists’ think tanks. They latched upon the twin murders to unleash frenzy, caring nothing for loss of face and credibility in case the facts about the gruesome incidents proved wrong. The cracking of Asrar’s murder case, which was nothing more than the outcome of jealousy in a love triangle, exposed separatist indulgence in matters which shamed one and all. A strange hope seems to pervade the thinking of separatist echelons that if they build public pressure, something dramatic may happen. The Hurriyat leader and main force behind the public upsurge betrayed his feelings when he said, “People should make a difference between right and wrong and follow the right path. New dawn is awaiting us and it is the crucial juncture that demands patience and consistency.” Another Hurriyat leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, described confusion among people as ‘anarchy’, ‘we should not look like a divided house, separatist organizations should not be in a rat race to issue strike calls… we need to think of creating alternative ways of protest. We have to carry on the movement and lives of the people as well.” The roots of this hope lay in certain recent developments involving the region as well as the experience of last year’s agitation against land transfer to Shri Amarnath Shrine Board. India Ragdo-II and the Catalysts The agitation on Amarnath land exposed cleavages in Indian polity. A section of the high profile liberal elite in India came out brazenly supporting separation of Kashmir from India one way or other. The likes of Arundhati Roy, Shabana Azmi, Vir Sanghvi, Prem Shankar Jha, and AG Noorani, through spoken or written words created an impression amongst the separatist rank and file that ‘Azadi’ was round the corner. ‘Ek Dakka Aur Do’, (just one push more) was the common refrain of separatist campaigners then. The public mobilization had less to do with the actual land row and more with wrecking Indian sovereignty over Kashmir. The campaign was not called India Ragda/Ragdo-I for only sloganeering. It reflected the underlying motivation. Carrying the experience forward this year’s campaigners unleashed, after the recovery of the dead bodies of two ladies in Shopian, India Ragda/Ragdo-II. Dr Sheikh Showkat Hussain, Department of Law, Kashmir University, called the recent unrest in the Valley the ‘resistance beyond the armed struggle;’ and the spirit underlying India Ragdo-II as, “Indian state needs to realize that it is confronting a highly informed and educated young generation of Kashmiris, they know the direction in which right of self determination is evolving and has evolved. It has definitely evolved in a direction which is advantageous to Kashmir, not against it. East Timor and Eritrea availed it despite being non- colonial possessions. Montenegro enjoyed the right of self-determination in spite of having forty five percent opponents to independence.” The separatist mind articulates its position vehemently. It describes expressions of separatism as the expression of a ‘Resistant Kashmir’, and demeans political engagement and democratic process in the state as ‘collaborating Kashmir’. The manifest disenchantment of the common man with the separatist leadership and his confusion is trivialized as ‘vacillating Kashmir’. The India Ragdo-II intifada in Kashmir is being guided by such a mindset. This mindset would have taken note of the admission in early May, towards the fag end of parliamentary elections, by none other than Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, “…I have always believed a strong peaceful moderate Pakistan in India’s interests. We worked very hard on that and in fact I and General Musharraf had reached nearly an agreement, a non territorial solution to all problems, but then General Musharraf got into many difficulties with the Chief Justice and other fronts and therefore the whole process came to a halt.” Separatist think tanks in Kashmir have been relentlessly searching a way to circumvent the predicament in which Pakistan is caught up and chart out a course to bring a halt to the ‘halt’. Columnist Syed Rafiuddin Bukhari, in Rising Kashmir, commented, “…Pakistan Government is grappling with the worst ever crisis, the Kashmiri leadership should stop looking towards Islamabad and think independently to charter their own course.” India Ragdo-II is the course separatists have embarked upon. Their hope lies more on the support which they generate amongst a section of entrenched liberal elite, be it Arundhati Roy or Prem Shankar Jha, people who advocate a concession on sovereignty not to bail out India from international pressure but out of an ideological outlook which recognizes Muslim communalism as a progressive secular imperative for India to reconcile with. Separatist rank and file see some space in the new American foreign policy. The new US ambassador to India, Timothy Roemer, statement that Kashmir “has been an extremely sensitive hotspot for the world and for the region where we have almost experienced thermonuclear war on several occasions,” has been music to the separatist rank and file. So have previous statements by Assistant Secretary of State William Burns or Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Separatists have not missed the success of the Pakistani government in toning down India’s assertions on the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. The release of Hafeez Syed is seen as a gradually stiffening stance of Pakistan on Kashmir. Keeping the pot boiling in Kashmir through a non-violent intifada serves Pakistan preserve its Kashmir Policy with reinforced moral legitimacy. Last but not the least, the Indian Ragdo-II intifada as per separatist thinking delegitimises the democratic process in the state. Mr. Arjimand Hussain Talib brings out this aspect brazenly: “It should now be clear to India’s political and media establishment that high voter turnout in Assembly elections does not mean an end of Kashmiri Movement for self determination. Kashmir needs a real political settlement which goes beyond the pre-1989 military status quo”. The Paradox The Central government if it has any inclination to diffuse the situation on the ground has to resolve a paradox. The National Conference which leads the ruling alliance in J&K shares and identifies with the common minimum agenda of campaigners in the Valley streets. In a full page advertisement, the state government declared its three main and primary achievements since assuming power: i). Bold decision taken after 20 years to replace CRPF by locals police; ii) First CM to plead eloquently for withdrawal of AFSPA, Union Government flags the issue; iii) Presence of Magistrates with police/security forces made mandatory while dealing with law and order problems and iv) Bomai (Army) camp re-located within a month. The main opposition PDP, both factions of Hurriyat and the local Bar Council all have revocation of AFPSA and demilitarization as their main demands. We have a piquant situation where the opposition, mainstream as well as separatist, and the state government are politically on the same side. The situation becomes bizarre when a section of the Government of India identifies with this consensus. The incidental or accidental remarks of Vice President Mohammad Hamid Ansari, while referring to the PM’s Working Group on Confidence Building Measures of which he was then Chairman, justified the key demand of separatists during the current unrest. The Vice President observed that implementation of its recommendations was considered by the Prime Minister as the key to retaining people’s confidence. In his own report then as chairman of the Working Group, ignoring the dissent within, Ansari recommended revocation of Armed Forces Special Powers Act. The entire report did not address anti- terrorism measures as a vital component of confidence building in the state. Even though in all incidents which lead to protests in recent times, the suspected culprits were locals working in local police or territorial army or government officials, the foremost demand of everybody of consequence was removal of paramilitary forces and army from the state. India Ragdo-Intifada has nothing to do with the incidents which caused public resentment. It essentially uses the incidents to lacerate symbols of Indian sovereignty. It seeks to project an extremely permissive, conniving and inactive state as a demonic police state. The Government, unwilling to defend its security establishment, takes a totally defensive position and allows public mobilizations by the most regressive and fundamentalist regimes operating on the ground. It declares lack of intention to act publicly by either withdrawing its security forces or ordering them not to intervene, whatever the provocation. The ruling National Conference has an ideological resonance with the common minimum programme of agitationists to force demilitarization, but an existential need to preserve the military presence. The central government knows that any laxity in security operations in the state may lead to catastrophic results, given the situation in Pakistan. Yet it seeks to maintain the stance of a neutral player while its security forces are described and lampooned as an occupation force in the valley. Civilians in the valley know well that the very survival of civil society depends upon the security forces, yet they demonize them. The paradox is deep and powerful. Inside The Present Turmoil Most events which lead to public resentment invariably have a sexual angle. Separatists are instigating the public that organs of the Indian state are not only indulging in extra-constitutional violence, but are perpetuating moral debasement of Kashmir society. The mobilization by Dukhtaran-e-Millat had the same purpose, when sexual scandals involving government officials and politicians came to the fore. We are witnessing in the Valley glaring signs of social disorganization caused by militarization of the social milieu. Local papers have time and again highlighted the proliferation of sexual cartels and the flesh trade. Ahmad Ali Fayaz, special correspondent, Daily Excelsior, brought out the magnitude of increase in the number of brothels in Srinagar city a few years ago. A well known ideologue and lobbyist of separatists also referred to ‘prostitution cartels’ in the valley in his columns in the local media. Most alarming is the penetration of flesh trade in the government and security establishment, rather than government promoting moral debasement in society. The concerns of a significant section of common Kashmiris are still unheard. Jihadi militarization brought along with it the evil of temporary marriage – Mutah – which soon became a social sanction for debauchery. The dreaded terrorist Akbar Bhai is reported to have married 83 local girls. One Shakeela Bano was abducted from her houseboat by terrorists and subjected to mass rape before being burnt to death. Al Umar terrorists did this to Shakeela because she refused to marry a terrorist for two years of her captivity, during which she was raped regularly. After running away from her captors, she escaped to Jammu where an NGO looked after her. But when she ventured back home, she was again abducted and burnt to death. Security forces then destroyed the prostitution cartels of the terrorists of Al Umar and rescued 150 women in captivity. Around the same time, security forces succeeded in freeing 10 women held captive by terrorists in Dacchan Marwa region of Kishtwar in Jammu. Numerous such incidents can be quoted. The introduction of promiscuity by terrorists has taken a toll on society. Militarization of the social milieu in the Valley has played havoc with age old traditions and values. Government establishment and security forces are face to face with this menace, but are yet to devise a counter response to prevent penetration of the flesh trade in their rank and file. The situation becomes alarming when we factor in reports that Kashmir tops the world in the list of opium abusers, as per research of ‘Community Drug Abuse Study Survey Kashmir,’ by well known psychiatrist Dr. Mushtaq Margoob. His evaluation has produced astounding statistics. 47.77 percent of population in Kashmir consumes some type of drug, including tobacco and its allied products. There are 24.32 lakh substance abuses (including tobacco abuse) in Kashmir, which includes 2.11 lakh opioid, 1.37 lakhs cannabis and around 38,000 alcohol abuses. The number of female drug addicts is alarming. The NGO, Hindustan National Social Security (HNSS), conducted a de-addiction programme in 2008-2009 amongst females. The female drug addicts were literates in the age group of 18-33, from urban as well as village backgrounds. Around the time the Shopian agitation was going, a national electronic channel showed how the army was involved in destroying poppy fields around Shopian. Police also reported recovering quintals of Bhukki - the locally produced poppy husk sold in north India. Conclusion Through the current Intifada, separatists seek moral legitimacy. They seek to accord respectability to a regressive anti-freedom movement. They are calibrating its interventions to remain relevant even if Pakistan continues to vacillate, or even collapses. The intifada is targeting the weakness of Indian policy to fight militarized pan-Islamic fundamentalism. The moral of the story is to de-legitimise this Intifada by educating the public about the impact of militarization of society. Another imperative is to stop fiddling with dangerous ideas of self-rule or the Musharraf Plan. These plans undermine the ideological foundations of India. Government legitimacy to these plans keeps the pot boiling in Kashmir. We have to realize that ideological compromise eventually leads to crippling territorial consequences. Dr. Ajay Chrungoo is chairman, Panun Kashmir http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=712 From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 10:32:08 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:32:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] openDemocracy.net: Contributing Editor: India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: altaf makhiawala *openDemocracy.net: Contributing Editor: India* openDemocracy is looking for a contributing editor to lead an exciting and unique editorial project on India. The project will demand a few hours per month of dedicated time over the course of one year, in which the editor will be required to commission and/or write quarterly essays. Given access to openDemocracy's platform, editorial group, professional network and large international readership, the editor will enjoy the benefits of affiliation with the leading online magazine of international affairs. This is a wonderful opportunity to shape an in-depth, probing argument about Indian politics for a global audience. The ideal candidate will be an established and well-respected journalist, scholar or activist; a leader in their field, with good knowledge of Indian politics and history. A track record of writing on issues of relevance to contemporary India is not necessary, but preferred. Once selected, the editor will agree upon a convenient schedule in coordination with the openDemocracy editorial team. This position has a budget of $1000 per year, managed by the editor, and which can be spent on commissioning or editorial-related expenses Email a CV and a cover letter(*) to Kanishk Tharoor at kanishk.tharoor(AT) opendemocracy.net. (*)The letter should sketch the issues the candidate would like to focus on over the course of the next year, detailing tentative subjects for each of the (at least) four essays that the contributing editor will be expected to produce. Source: http://www.opendemocracy.net/work_for_od From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 13:52:57 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:52:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] No to Farcical Enquiries; Shame on the NHRC for its Partisanship In-Reply-To: <686518.94832.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <686518.94832.qm@web24107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907230122y4754e79bv39a8b16fa835339d@mail.gmail.com> WAH, WAH, KYA BAATH HAI, IF THE FINDING ARE AGAINST YOUR PERCEPTION THE FINDING IS WRONG.! This is typical of religious individuals who will do anything for their "faith". ? The same is the issue in Ayodhya where a simple issue of ownership of a plot of land with "religious " individuals joined my many such individuals have made the lives of citizens in the nation miserable.? The courts which take decades to adjudicate, the prosecution which does not get proper assistance by investigating authorities,investigating individuals sway with political leaders to play the game of vote bank politics do care two hoots about good governance in democratic nation.! NGOs which spring up like mushrooms after the first few rains of the monsoon, have different guises, human rights is one of them, and ofcourse the election commissioner who now adorns the seat has his wife as chief of NGo, so party which donated the public funds of MPs to this NGO got richly rewarded by EVM fraud, very systematically.! Good governance , my foot.! Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:25 AM, ambarien qadar wrote: > Hi all,The JTSG's response to the NHRC's clean chit on Batla House > encounter follows:No to Farcical Enquiries; Shame on the NHRC for its > Partisanship > Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Group rejects the NHRC’s report on the Batla > House ‘encounter’, which gives a clean chit to the Delhi Police. The NHRC > claims that on the basis of the “material placed before us, it cannot be > said that there has been any violation of human rights by the actions of > police”. Indeed, we would like to know what material was placed before the > NHRC for inspection. The NHRC enquiry into the case, one will remember, came > far too late, and that too at the insistence of the High Court. For months, > the NHRC refused to take any initiative to independently enquire into the > ‘encounter’ which several civil rights groups, including JTSG, deemed > suspect. The NHRC enquiry was carried out in an inexplicably secret manner; > even applications by residents of Azamgarh to depose before the Commission > were not acknowledged by the NHRC. If people of Azamgarh, the family members > of the accused and killed boys, civil rights groups > who have been working and campaigning on the issue were never heard by the > Commission, we wonder what was the material that was placed before the > Commission. It appears that NHRC, like the Lieutenant Governor prior to > this, was satisfied by hearing the police version alone. The JTSG > Report, Encounter at Batla House: Unanswered Questions, a damning indictment > of the police version had been submitted to the Commission earlier this > year. By ignoring all contrary voices, the NHRC has proved itself to be a > brazenly partisan body, and damaged its own standing and independent > credibility.In its bid to carry out the dictats of the State, the NHRC even > chose to forgot that the Delhi Police had consistently violated even its own > guidelines about encounter killings. Worse still, a body which is supposed > to act in the interests of the human rights of the country’s citizens, > pronounces that an ‘encounter’ did not involve any human rights violation > only > tells us about its flawed and distorted understanding of human rights and > subverts the very basis of its guidelines. Sd/-Manisha Sethi and Adeel Mehdi > on behalf of the JTSGThanksAmbarien Al Qadar > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 14:04:22 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:04:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> May be she meant, we Indians and the kashmiri, ..... like the north indian individuals always refer to "madrasi" forgetting that there are five federal states in earlier "MADRAS" province of british ruled India.,, colonial hang over, unspoied by the freedom gained.! Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:17 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > > Dear Ms Meera Rizwi, > I have not been able to understand the intent of the > following: > "The surprise was, that > even as we, the > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri > driver, unarmed > and alone, was fighting back." > What do you mean by we, the Indians and .....Kashmiri driver. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Meera Rizvi wrote: > > > From: Meera Rizvi > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > > To: "Inder Salim" > > Cc: "reader-list" > > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 9:18 AM > > Dear All, > > > > I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a > > deeply disturbing > > book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the > > book and the > > journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges > > clearly is that > > for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years, > > Kashmir has > > lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the > > army. > > > > Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an > > army check post. > > The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the > > army truck moving > > in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him > > up and > > threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that > > even as we, the > > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri > > driver, unarmed > > and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag > > him into a nearby > > orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming > > from the opposite > > direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The > > jawans backed off > > and the driver became more aggressive. > > > > The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the > > swagger of the > > conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped > > on the driver > > were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old > > niece burst into > > tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and > > assuage her fears. > > > > Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it > > is dangerous to > > have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which > > has grown up with > > that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it. > > Their instinct for > > survival has been dulled by years of brutality and > > violence. They are no > > longer afraid to die. > > > > Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think > > so. Can peace be > > brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real > > or percieved > > oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets > > protesting. Isn't > > that democracy? > > > > Regards, > > > > Meera > > > > > > On 7/19/09, Inder Salim > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All > > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar > > names throwing > > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my > > own bit, as > > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue > > is alive as much > > > as it was in 1947. > > > > > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who > > stood like a wall > > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he > > not been so > > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another > > Swat, or worse > > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. > > Where Gandhi > > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence > > Sheikh succeeded in > > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted > > good for Kashmiris > > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > > > > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid > > by Indian > > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord > > which obviously > > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead > > bone, which is > > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to > > eat the Indian > > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson > > Mandela of this > > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own > > complacency led him to > > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most > > probably Shikeh > > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the > > luxuries of power > > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > > > > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in > > Kashmir is less > > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, > > and as reports > > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > > > > > The question, now is that who are these > > unfortunate people who > > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in > > the valley. > > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good > > thing that it is > > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. > > But, on the > > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the > > Kashmiri sentiments. > > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May > > be British > > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but > > very little is said > > > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > > > > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank > > cheque in his > > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew > > that people in > > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. > > But Sheikh > > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned > > Sheikhs dream into > > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments > > were not > > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > > > > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani > > line on Kashmir > > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the > > ‘Pakistani line’ > > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were > > numerous other > > > political representatives. It was war against Indian > > face in the > > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, > > and wanted > > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then > > Kashmirs, which they > > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads > > fighting each other. > > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, > > but at the cost > > > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or > > without a cause. > > > > > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the > > same coalition > > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in > > 1989. A simple > > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which > > is compounded > > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and > > every roof top. > > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of > > freedom, since both > > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. > > Quite boring. > > > > > > There are many reasons why a particular community > > turns > > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ > > the cold war ’ > > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called > > fundamentalism. Now we > > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed > > state. > > > > > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has > > become more > > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not > > a healthy sign, > > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the > > same time. For > > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing > > which can white > > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on > > earth will be the > > > issue. > > > > > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of > > living emerged. > > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of > > an average > > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the > > masses? How to > > > talk sustainability in the present without any > > compromise on their > > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge > > before > > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may > > be by looking into > > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather > > than picking up > > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But > > life is not a > > > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > > > > > With love and regards > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of > > AFSpA.Nobody can ensure > > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring > > terrorism because its > > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the > > UN resolution India > > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of > > referendum in the light of > > > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to > > tame.Its a highly organised > > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United > > States > > > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in > > itself but its nothing > > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens > > as canon fodder to > > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an > > institution in power,one > > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from > > Kashmir.In my opinion > > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in > > Kashmir is a stable > > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > > Self Determination > > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > > > >> Dear Rahul, > > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this > > be unstable? > > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for > > the 'new > > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such > > issues only keep > > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs > > to be ensured, > > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > > > >> Regards, > > > >> Subhrodip. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ________________________________ > > > >> From: Rahul Asthana > > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > > > >> subhrodip sengupta > > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > > Self > > > >> Determination > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Dear Subhrodip, > > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed > > Kashmir up.AFSpA > > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop > > sending > > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should > > you or I > > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support > > or oppose a > > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There > > are people > > > >> like Junaid who are not really worried > > about how many > > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri > > nationalism is as much > > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is > > to those who > > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of > > self > > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not > > the right of > > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly > > submit that we > > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism > > and should > > > >> advocate the course of action that results in > > resolving the > > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only > > speak for myself. > > > >> Thanks > > > >> Rahul > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > > Self > > > >> Determination > > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > > > >> > Dear all, > > > >> > This problem shall continue if the > > posession of land > > > >> for > > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer > > laws of > > > >> inheritance > > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased > > out of > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > it........................................................................................................ > > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted > > either by Indian > > > >> or by > > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated > > and quite > > > >> > interesting discussions, one question > > I'd like to > > > >> > > > ask..................................... > > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a > > limited extent > > > >> of our > > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects > > where they are > > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I > > shouldnt rape poorer > > > >> Gori > > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a > > case of dire > > > >> racism. > > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak > > ................ > > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not > > India or Pak or > > > >> Bg > > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets > > so sensitive > > > >> and > > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper > > readings > > > >> suggests it > > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed > > act, army > > > >> appearing > > > >> > in every domain of social life and so > > the anti-army > > > >> forces, > > > >> > that makes these people crave for a > > different kind of > > > >> > independance, from the state which doent > > want to > > > >> repeal the > > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a > > political > > > >> struggle, > > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt > > the peace > > > >> option not > > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however > > would not be > > > >> much > > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or > > Maharasthra's > > > >> Son of > > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we > > could retain > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > kashmir.................................................................... > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ________________________________ > > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > > >> > > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir > > has no case > > > >> for > > > >> > self-determination > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Hi Junaid, > > > >> > There is a difference between a > > colonized body of land > > > >> and > > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > > > >> > > > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of > > a nation than > > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, > > you are > > > >> defining > > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of > > solidarity based > > > >> on > > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is > > that correct? > > > >> > > > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only > > occupying > > > >> nation in > > > >> > Kashmir or do > > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as > > well? > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks > > > >> > Rahul > > > >> > > > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > From: Junaid > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why > > Kashmir has no > > > >> case for > > > >> > self-determination > > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 > > AM > > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > > >> > > fighting for its liberation. > > National > > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the > > democratic > > > >> principle > > > >> > of > > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle > > of > > > >> > self-determination > > > >> > > does not > > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN > > or any other > > > >> > > multinational document. > > > >> > > But on the contrary what is > > enshrined in the UN > > > >> > Charter > > > >> > > emerged from > > > >> > > an ethical realisation that > > self-determination is > > > >> the > > > >> > > foundational > > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which > > in turn is the > > > >> bed > > > >> > rock > > > >> > > for peace. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle > > was widely > > > >> > accepted. > > > >> > > And it proved > > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the > > decolonization > > > >> > movement, > > > >> > > which > > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the > > anti-colonial > > > >> > struggles in > > > >> > > the Indian > > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. > > (On the > > > >> betrayal of > > > >> > > anti-colonial > > > >> > > struggle though, I might add > > quickly what Faiz > > > >> said > > > >> > "Yeh > > > >> > > woh seher to > > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or > > what Mehjoor > > > >> spoke > > > >> > when he > > > >> > > lamented > > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a > > few > > > >> doors..."). > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been > > arguing for the > > > >> same > > > >> > for > > > >> > > ever, but > > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up > > annihilating each > > > >> other > > > >> > before > > > >> > > realising > > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It > > took a lot of > > > >> > struggle > > > >> > > and sacrifice > > > >> > > from the colonised people to make > > it happen. > > > >> > Colonisers > > > >> > > tried every > > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the > > eventuality. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has > > "a case for" > > > >> > > self-determination or > > > >> > > not. There is no court that can > > decide that. At > > > >> least > > > >> > it is > > > >> > > not > > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if > > "Indian > > > >> > nationalists" > > > >> > > think they > > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to > > believe that > > > >> Indian > > > >> > > nationalists for > > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a > > religious > > > >> > faith--and in > > > >> > > fact is a > > > >> > > religious faith--would come around > > and change > > > >> their > > > >> > opinion > > > >> > > on it-- > > > >> > > least through discussion. What is > > important is > > > >> that > > > >> > > Kashmiris think > > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need > > for freedom > > > >> and > > > >> > > independence. It > > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 > > years of > > > >> > struggle--first > > > >> > > against Dogra > > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian > > rule--the case > > > >> in > > > >> > the > > > >> > > eyes of > > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than > > ever. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start > > like pebbles > > > >> > rolling > > > >> > > down the > > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. > > More and more > > > >> > people, > > > >> > > young people, > > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly > > than generations > > > >> > before > > > >> > > them) feel > > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning > > to them. More > > > >> and > > > >> > more > > > >> > > they > > > >> > > understand this idea of being > > Kashmiri as > > > >> running > > > >> > counter > > > >> > > to any > > > >> > > individual or group affliation with > > the idea of > > > >> India. > > > >> > The > > > >> > > idea of > > > >> > > India is understood as something > > that stops them > > > >> from > > > >> > > being > > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is > > utterly > > > >> unacceptable > > > >> > to > > > >> > > them. The idea > > > >> > > of independence has grown > > exponentially since > > > >> Sheikh > > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for > > independence > > > >> when it > > > >> > > couples itself > > > >> > > with the need for it, is > > unstoppable. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more > > like a national > > > >> > solidarity > > > >> > > based on > > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, > > instead of > > > >> feeding > > > >> > on > > > >> > > the notions > > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the > > chauvinist idea of > > > >> "the > > > >> > chosen > > > >> > > people". > > > >> > > Within the current global discourse > > of "Islam", > > > >> > however, > > > >> > > Kashmiris too > > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, > > which in the > > > >> > long-run > > > >> > > does not have > > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It > > will wane. > > > >> > Islamophobia > > > >> > > cannot hold. > > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion > > Muslims all over > > > >> the > > > >> > world > > > >> > > which > > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend > > with as > > > >> enemies. > > > >> > > Anti-Hindu > > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of > > Kashmiris is not > > > >> only a > > > >> > > result of the > > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule > > but also of > > > >> how > > > >> > the > > > >> > > Indian > > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get > > entwined. > > > >> For > > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly > > Hindu Dogra rule, > > > >> and > > > >> > then > > > >> > > the transfer > > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu > > India, makes > > > >> the > > > >> > > imperial-territorial > > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a > > symbolic foe. There > > > >> are > > > >> > no > > > >> > > doctrinal > > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus > > and Muslims > > > >> can't sit > > > >> > and > > > >> > > live > > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, > > they have. No > > > >> one > > > >> > in > > > >> > > Srinagar > > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's > > green flag on > > > >> the > > > >> > red > > > >> > > fort. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the > > Fourth World. A > > > >> world > > > >> > which > > > >> > > is utterly > > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the > > Third > > > >> World--which by > > > >> > > mimicking the > > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and > > substance looks and > > > >> > behaves > > > >> > > like former > > > >> > > colonial countries. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that > > "Azadi" will be > > > >> given > > > >> > on a > > > >> > > platter. It > > > >> > > will be taken through everyday > > anti-occupation > > > >> > struggle by > > > >> > > Kashmiris. > > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have > > suffered much > > > >> but > > > >> > there > > > >> > > is very > > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle > > intensifies, so > > > >> will > > > >> > > oppression. But > > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the > > occupation. > > > >> India > > > >> > will > > > >> > > leave Kashmir > > > >> > > because there is no other way. I > > only hope it > > > >> doesn't > > > >> > > happen at the > > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls > > the entire > > > >> > subcontinent. > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and > > > >> the > > > >> > > city. > > > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > >> > > with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > > >> > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> > > List archive: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the > > > >> > city. > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> > List archive: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Yahoo! > > recommends that you upgrade to > > > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the > > > >> > city. > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> > List archive: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Love Cricket? > > Check out live scores, > > > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here > > http://cricket.yahoo.com > > > >> _________________________________________ > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media > > and the > > > >> city. > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Meera > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 23 16:01:10 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:31:10 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report- 156 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Now that UIDC is on the anvil we are told that BPL list is flawed. Just as with a introduction of a new technology older technologies are discarded so as with Nandan Nilekani assuming office last Thursday and with the idea of UIDC gaining some form the perception with respect to the efficacy of BPL/AAY and other lists is dwindling. However old and new are not static terms. They are dynamic. What is old now must have new once similarly what is new today will become old in not too distant a future. I would like to think that just as there seems to be a euphoria amongst various sections of the industry and some departments of the government of India regarding UIDC so as there must have been a lot of excitement some sixty years ago when the then government of India must have sought to introduce a 'new' scheme to identity all the people living Below the poverty line and genuinely contribute to make poverty history. It's another matter that BPL could not cut the mustard. Will it be another matter, in another age, maybe sixty years from now when we will realize the UIDC too couldn't get it right? Warm regards Taha http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City/Jaipur/Present-list-of-BPL-families-a-flawed-one-says-report/articleshow/4804814.cms Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report TNN 22 July 2009, 04:26am IST JAIPUR: The method used for identification of Below Poverty Line (BPL) families should be drastically revised in all states and Union Territories as the present BPL list is a flawed one, observed an expert group appointed by the Union rural development ministry here on Tuesday. At a core group meeting to discuss the issues concerning indicators of Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) with special reference to health and education in Rajasthan, N C Saxena, former secretary, Planning Commission and chairman of the expert group on "Estimation of poverty and identification of BPL households in Rural India" said that the percentage of people entitled to BPL status should be drastically revised upwards to at least 50%, though the calorie norm of 2400 would demand this figure to be 80%. According to the monthly bulletin of the food ministry, there are more than 10.5 crore BPL/AAY cards in the country, which would account for roughly 53 crore people, said Saxena. This figure is very close to what his group is recommending. According to Saxena, a gross error of exclusion and inclusion has crept into the BPL list because of "flawed methodology" followed in the past. Multiple lists created confusion and also lead to administrative corruption. "One Panchayat one list" should be goal for the government, he observed. The meeting was attended by senior officials of state, planning department, representatives of UN bodies, experts and researchers. The meeting was chaired by additional chief secretary (development) Alka Kala. The identification of BPL families in the state will be done from August 2009 to January 2010, over a six month period. In case it is delayed beyond January 2010, it would be difficult to get enough staff to complete the process as the work for Census 2011 would have begun by then, which require huge manpower. Saxena, while discussing the MDG targets and challenges said that national poverty reduction programmes are under the spotlight more than ever before. He said that BPL list is of enormous importance to Union and state governments as well as the rural population at large. The total number of people to be included and the criteria for inclusion is central to poverty alleviation. He suggested that panchayat-wise number of the poor should be declared by the district authorities. Additional chief secretary Alka Kala emphasised that women empowerment and nurturing of children are major concerns in the social service sector. The question of maternal mortality rate (MMR) -- which is one goal of MDGs with respect to Rajasthan -- is faring badly. She said that women's health suffers right from childhood - she is malnourished, underweight and anaemic and has not been reached by the public health system. The meeting was attended by Gurjot Kaur, principal secretary, planning, Mira Mahrishi, principal secretary, women and child development, R K Meena, principal secretary, medical and health sciences and senior officials. Reports of three convergence districts, prepared by the district collectors of Sawai Madhopur, Barmer and Udaipur, were also presented and various indicators were discussed. Rajasthan UNICEF chief Samuel Muwunganidz and state programme coordinator of UNFPA Sunil Thomas Jacob emphasized on improving the infrastructure and generating awareness among the local communities to enable them to get the benefits of various developmental schemes. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 16:59:41 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:59:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report- 156 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> Dear All and Taha, humans endeavour is to work, work with accuracy, but the greed, status, power make things go wrong in the work done.? Check any data of any federal state irrespective of the political party ruling that state, one can easily know that the BPL list is all wrong, genuine beneficiaries are not in the list to get the essential commodities,the caste, faith and regional affiliation of that reseidential area has had an impact while making the list of eligible beneficiaries. Karnataka has 1.65 lakh BPL cards with average of 5 individuals as its family members in each of this cards. The population of karnataka is appxly, 550 lakhs, which means every person living in Karnataka is below poverty line.! Our dear nandu, narayana Murthy, Premji all are poor by this statisrics.! Ofcourse none of them may have the BPL cards, but census is mere game with numbers when it is only for pleasing the votebanks.! Unless there is political will to have good governance and citizens rise above the hypocracy of having the cake and eating it too with exclusive policies, this is bound to happen as human mind works for survival, far better than any technology.! Take the cost of running the system of democratic rule, parliament spends Rs.26,000/- per minute, I was told by men in media, the president has to be kept in the Rastrapatni Bhavan at a cost of 6.5 crores, the useless politicians have to be protected with security at a cost of 550 crores per annum, with all this wastage of public money and additional waste of expenditure on "free and fair" elections to elect goons and murderers as our elected representatives, do we need democracy at all.? But the issue here is freedom , freedom to talk, express, that we have as we have democratic rule with all its shortcomings.! Regards. Rajen. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear All > > Now that UIDC is on the anvil we are told that BPL list is flawed. > Just as with a introduction of a new technology older technologies are > discarded so as with Nandan Nilekani assuming office last Thursday and > with the idea of UIDC gaining some form the perception with respect > to the efficacy of BPL/AAY and other lists is dwindling. > > However old and new are not static terms. They are dynamic. What is > old now must have new once similarly what is new today will become old > in not too distant a future. > > I would like to think that just as there seems to be a euphoria > amongst various sections of the industry and some departments of the > government of India regarding UIDC so as there must have been a lot of > excitement some sixty years ago when the then government of India must > have sought to introduce a 'new' scheme to identity all the people > living Below the poverty line and genuinely contribute to make > poverty history. > > It's another matter that BPL could not cut the mustard. Will it be > another matter, in another age, maybe sixty years from now when we > will realize the UIDC too couldn't get it right? > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City/Jaipur/Present-list-of-BPL-families-a-flawed-one-says-report/articleshow/4804814.cms > > Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report > TNN 22 July 2009, 04:26am IST > > JAIPUR: The method used for identification of Below Poverty Line (BPL) > families should be drastically revised in all states and Union > Territories > as the present BPL list is a flawed one, observed an expert group > appointed by the Union rural development ministry here on Tuesday. > > At a core group meeting to discuss the issues concerning indicators of > Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) with special reference to health > and education in Rajasthan, N C Saxena, former secretary, Planning > Commission and chairman of the expert group on "Estimation of poverty > and identification of BPL households in Rural India" said that the > percentage of people entitled to BPL status should be drastically > revised upwards to at least 50%, though the calorie norm of 2400 would > demand this figure to be 80%. > > According to the monthly bulletin of the food ministry, there are more > than 10.5 crore BPL/AAY cards in the country, which would account for > roughly 53 crore people, said Saxena. This figure is very close to > what his group is recommending. According to Saxena, a gross error of > exclusion and inclusion has crept into the BPL list because of "flawed > methodology" followed in the past. Multiple lists created confusion > and also lead to administrative corruption. "One Panchayat one list" > should be goal for the government, he observed. > > The meeting was attended by senior officials of state, planning > department, representatives of UN bodies, experts and researchers. The > meeting was chaired by additional chief secretary (development) Alka > Kala. > > The identification of BPL families in the state will be done from > August 2009 to January 2010, over a six month period. In case it is > delayed beyond January 2010, it would be difficult to get enough staff > to complete the process as the work for Census 2011 would have begun > by then, which require huge manpower. > > Saxena, while discussing the MDG targets and challenges said that > national poverty reduction programmes are under the spotlight more > than ever before. He said that BPL list is of enormous importance to > Union and state governments as well as the rural population at large. > The total number of people to be included and the criteria for > inclusion is central to poverty alleviation. He suggested that > panchayat-wise number of the poor should be declared by the district > authorities. > > Additional chief secretary Alka Kala emphasised that women empowerment > and nurturing of children are major concerns in the social service > sector. The question of maternal mortality rate (MMR) -- which is one > goal of MDGs with respect to Rajasthan -- is faring badly. She said > that women's health suffers right from childhood - she is > malnourished, underweight and anaemic and has not been reached by the > public health system. > > The meeting was attended by Gurjot Kaur, principal secretary, > planning, Mira Mahrishi, principal secretary, women and child > development, R K Meena, principal secretary, medical and health > sciences and senior officials. Reports of three convergence districts, > prepared by the district collectors of Sawai Madhopur, Barmer and > Udaipur, were also presented and various indicators were discussed. > > Rajasthan UNICEF chief Samuel Muwunganidz and state programme > coordinator of UNFPA Sunil Thomas Jacob emphasized on improving the > infrastructure and generating awareness among the local communities to > enable them to get the benefits of various developmental schemes. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 23 17:16:05 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:46:05 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani takes over as chief of identity project Thursday- 157 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907230446m5bc3985fx5727a114216ef7c8@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, A friend recently mentioned to me that just as the big dam was the big technological idea of India of the 20th century; sixty years later it is the UIDC which is emerging as the big idea of the 21st. Just like it was big dams which led to growth of industries like iron and steel and cement industries so as UIDC will usher substantial growth in semi conductor, chip manufacturing, IT industries. His analysis was that just as big dams couldn't sustain as an idea and led to mass uprooting of people, devastation of ecology, endemic corruption in the system, so as UIDC will lead to mass identity thefts, absolute power in the hands of the State, and gradual erosion of trust among society. Just as big dams were led by technocrats who are trained to rule and not govern so as will Nilekani's at the helm and MBA's filling in the dots of the information pyramid governance will take a back seat to these ruthless machinist rulers of personal and private information. This is an extremely persuasive argument. We have, in big dams, an idea, which was a gigantic failure. This failure is etched in our collective memories. However one must carefully go about comparing these two ideas before arriving at an analogy. Big dams deeply devastated the lives of those people who were the owners of land while UIDC is going to have an affect on lives of all of us. There is difference of scale here which cannot be ignored. One cannot discount the fact the big dams for whatever they were worth resulted in not only in generation and distribution of electricity but also in distribution of water for irrigation and drinking likewise UIDC will also have collateral benefits. It is true that big dams led to large scale and systemic corruption but it is also true that it led to large scale and systemic employment however with UIDC it seems the only people who will be gainfully employed will be those who have access to knowledge. If big dams were labor intensive UIDC will be capital and knowledge intensive. The expertise for big dams was marshaled under the vision of Nehru. Ministry of Energy which was later renamed as Ministry of Power were political posts. The men heading these posts were subject to political pressures. Their careers depended on the way in which, they, not only projected the image of Bharat Sarkaar but also employed persuasive and coercive techniques on people to agree to the idea of big dams. UIDAI will be ruled by a man who seems to have sold his soul to his whim- the vision of his India. He bears not responsibility to the people of India. He is under no obligation whatsoever to LISTEN to what people think. He mandate is clear. Think. Persuade. Design. Implement. He is trained to achieve objectives. He sight is blinkered by deadlines. He is answerable to his self alone. He is the God who is obliging the rest of us poor, illiterate Indians who cannot think about the collective good of us all, by sacrificing a knowledge paradise which he help create. Oh!!! how he must be longing to return to the campus!!! To be with future leaders of India who live by the code. He is the input/output man. There are no if/then/kintu/parantu in his jargon. One number. One citizen. That's his aim. For whatever image that he has managed to project in his brief public life, it appears, as if he may just about manage, to give some numbers. The point being Thiru Nandan Nilekani has assumed office and now it remains to be seen whether he will be able to convert the big idea into a big reality or not. The question being- do we need people who will rule us just like the Brits did in India or we need people who can govern us just like the Brits do in England? This is the choice we have to make now. With warm regards Taha Nilekani takes over as chief of identity project Thursday http://blog.taragana.com/n/nilekani-takes-over-as-chief-of-identity-project-thursday-117223/ Ians July 22nd, 2009 NEW DELHI - Infosys Technologies co-founder Nandan Mohan Nilekani formally takes over as the chairperson of the newly formed Unique Identity Authority at Yojana Bhavan, the headquarters of the Planning Commission, here Thursday. Nilekani, 54, will enjoy the rank of a cabinet minister. The authority will oversee the government’s ambitious project to assign unique identity numbers and issue a card to each of India’s 1.17 billion citizens that will serve as a permanent identifier from birth to death. Its main purpose is to obviate the need for multiple documentary proof of identity for any of the government services, or for private needs like opening bank accounts. It is also expected to enhance national security by helping to identify illegal aliens. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 23 17:35:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:05:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] EU-INDIA: The RISE Consortium hosts a High Level Meeting in New Delhi on Biometrics and Security Ethics-158 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907230505g4b3b0f45p7729a22553dcd290@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, This is a call to all those who are in the media and are based in Delhi. As the wire below suggests- 'On the 24th and 25th of September 2009, the EU funded initiative RISE will promote a meeting in New Delhi organized by the Data Security Council of India (DSCI). The meeting will focus on communalities and differences between the EU and India regarding the vital policy issues of security, data protection and privacy.' The issues which will be discussed in this meeting are of critical importance to all of us in India and in the EU and needs to be covered however since they are not going to come under any tag which says- sensational-, it is highly unlikely that this meeting would gain any media attention. However needless to mention, that, I would be grateful to anyone who could kindly cover this meeting and share with the list members their experience of this encounter. Regards Taha http://cordis.europa.eu/wire/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.Detail&rcn=19556 EU-INDIA: The RISE Consortium hosts a High Level Meeting in New Delhi on Biometrics and Security Ethics EU-INDIA: The RISE Consortium hosts a High Level Meeting in New Delhi on Biometrics and Security Ethics 2009-07-23 Valeria Balestrieri Centre for Science, Society and Citizenship Piazza Capo di Ferro 23 00186 ROME ITALY valeria.balestrieri at cssc.eu Tel: 0039 06 45551042 Fax: 0039 06 45551044 On the 24th and 25th of September 2009, the EU funded initiative RISE will promote a meeting in New Delhi organized by the Data Security Council of India (DSCI). The meeting will focus on communalities and differences between the EU and India regarding the vital policy issues of security, data protection and privacy. The overall goal of this event is to promote and foster international conversation between India and Europe on these topics. They are both a union of states, they both represent an example of ethnic, socio-cultural and religious diversity and they are among the world’s largest democracies: they are India and Europe. India and Europe are a unique example of shared values, intercultural dialogue and strong strategic partnership. No wonder why India has become a privileged partner for Europe. Not only the two countries share common political objectives, such as countering terrorism, resolving regional and international conflicts, cooperating in the face of natural disasters, but they have also established a strong economic relationship making the European Union India’s top foreign investor and leading trading partner. On the 24th and 25th of September 2009, the EU funded initiative RISE will promote a meeting in New Delhi organized by the Data Security Council of India (DSCI). The meeting will focus on communalities and differences between the EU and India regarding the vital policy issues of security, data protection and privacy. The overall goal of this event is to promote and foster international conversation between India and Europe on these topics. India has been one of the best performers in the world economy in recent years and Business Process Outsourcing has undoubtedly contributed to this rapid development. BPO has seen a tremendous growth in the past years with increasing revenues. In line with the growth of this market, great concerns have been raised on the security and data protection of the transnational flows to outsourcing companies. Western users have put the Indian government under increasing pressure to implement regulations according to European and US data protection standards, for the safeguard of privacy and to create appropriate confidence among foreign investors. BPO outsourcing however is not the only field effected by data protection issues in India. The recent news of the Indian government initiating the plan to provide each citizen with a biometric-based National Identification Card (UID project) has captured the world’s attention. It is the biggest identification project ever put in place that will eventually involve 1.2 billion citizens. “We have the opportunity to give every Indian citizen, for the first time, a unique identity. We can transform the country”, Nandan Nilekani - cabinet minister and head of the project - said. The biometric identity cards will provide an identity also to the millions of people that do not possess any proof of existence and it is hoped that it will help fighting terrorism and criminality. But the huge online database that will retain citizens personal information may represent a threat for privacy and data protection. The meeting will take place at the TAJ PALACE HOTEL. Speakers will include EU and Indian authorities, stakeholders from industries, leading Universities and opinion leaders. For information please contact: Ms Silvia Venier silvia.venier at cssc.eu RISE Secretariat Centre for Science, Society and Citizenship Mr Nikhil Chachra nikhil at dsci.in Indian Meeting Organzier Data Security Council of India – A Nasscom Initiative About the RISE Project RISE (Rising pan-European and International Awareness on Biometrics and Security Ethics) is a 36 month EU funded project which aims at setting up an international initiative to monitor ethical and policy issues raised by biometrics and security technologies. RISE aims to deepen, enlarge to Asian actors and ensure continuity to European and international dialogue already instigated by the two linked projects BITE (http://www.biteproject.org) and HIDE (http://www.hideproject.eu), and by the two previous conferences on ethics and biometrics organized by the EC DG Research and the US DHS Privacy Office respectively in 2005 and 2006. The RISE project will involve key European and international actors in an ongoing, policy-related, non-official, dialogue on privacy and ethics of biometrics and security technologies. For further information, please visit the RISE website: http://www.riseproject.eu From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 23 18:02:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:32:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report- 156 In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907230532x5534563ble671357b9d07a21d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, Human endeavor is also to think, to question, to ask, to inquire, to reflect, to know, to judge, to disagree, to argue, to allege, to claim, to point, to direct, to imagine and to look. The point being- just because a new thing needs to be put in place does not mean the what was there before was necessarily redundant. If BPL lists are flawed then why is the government not doing something about making it flawless. BPL is one of the lists which stores information, by introducing this card does the government wants us to think that all the information stored in all the lists in all those departments of the Government of India which involve direct citizen interface are flawed. If so then what is the guarantee that a new list which will be prepared will not be flawed. If there is no guarantee then why is 1.5 lakh crore rupees is being spent in our name. On the other hand if only some lists are flawed then why is public money not being spent in correcting those lists. If our arm needs to be cured then would we replace the brain by making an argument that since brain controls the body therefore a new systematic, efficient brain would auto correct the nerves which controls the arm. In mythology we have had a Hanuman who lifted an entire mountain because he couldn't identify the Sanjivni herb now we have a Ram Sevak (Shri Ram Sevak Sharma, the IAS officer who will administer the UIDAI) who is going to 'lift' us all because he cannot identify the so called illegal immigrants and the poor. Sometimes one feels that with UIDAI one is going to live in mythical times. When information will travel at the speed of light announcing our arrivals and departures instantaneously. When we will have a mythical figure of Narayana who knew all the information regarding everyone roaming around the nation in the garb of UIDAI. But will it usher a Ram Rajya? That remains to be seen. Warm regards Taha From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 18:34:35 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:34:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907230604o3e3b7b6du8e8d72b6916973de@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately for Mr Malik stuck in the cozy confines of New Delhi, it becomes difficult to understand that a good guide or a driver (under no circumstances in his own area of domicile) would NOT let his passengers or any tourist fight for his own battle. On 7/23/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > May be she meant, we Indians and the kashmiri, ..... like the north > indian > individuals always refer to "madrasi" forgetting that there are five > federal states in earlier "MADRAS" province of british ruled India.,, > colonial hang over, unspoied by the freedom gained.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:17 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > > > > > Dear Ms Meera Rizwi, > > I have not been able to understand the intent of the > > following: > > "The surprise was, that > > even as we, the > > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri > > driver, unarmed > > and alone, was fighting back." > > What do you mean by we, the Indians and .....Kashmiri driver. > > Regards, > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Meera Rizvi wrote: > > > > > From: Meera Rizvi > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > > > To: "Inder Salim" > > > Cc: "reader-list" > > > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 9:18 AM > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a > > > deeply disturbing > > > book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the > > > book and the > > > journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges > > > clearly is that > > > for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years, > > > Kashmir has > > > lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the > > > army. > > > > > > Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an > > > army check post. > > > The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the > > > army truck moving > > > in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him > > > up and > > > threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that > > > even as we, the > > > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri > > > driver, unarmed > > > and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag > > > him into a nearby > > > orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming > > > from the opposite > > > direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The > > > jawans backed off > > > and the driver became more aggressive. > > > > > > The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the > > > swagger of the > > > conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped > > > on the driver > > > were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old > > > niece burst into > > > tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and > > > assuage her fears. > > > > > > Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it > > > is dangerous to > > > have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which > > > has grown up with > > > that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it. > > > Their instinct for > > > survival has been dulled by years of brutality and > > > violence. They are no > > > longer afraid to die. > > > > > > Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think > > > so. Can peace be > > > brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real > > > or percieved > > > oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets > > > protesting. Isn't > > > that democracy? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Meera > > > > > > > > > On 7/19/09, Inder Salim > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All > > > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar > > > names throwing > > > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my > > > own bit, as > > > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue > > > is alive as much > > > > as it was in 1947. > > > > > > > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who > > > stood like a wall > > > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he > > > not been so > > > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another > > > Swat, or worse > > > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. > > > Where Gandhi > > > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence > > > Sheikh succeeded in > > > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted > > > good for Kashmiris > > > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. > > > > > > > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid > > > by Indian > > > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord > > > which obviously > > > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead > > > bone, which is > > > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to > > > eat the Indian > > > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson > > > Mandela of this > > > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own > > > complacency led him to > > > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most > > > probably Shikeh > > > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the > > > luxuries of power > > > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. > > > > > > > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in > > > Kashmir is less > > > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, > > > and as reports > > > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. > > > > > > > > The question, now is that who are these > > > unfortunate people who > > > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in > > > the valley. > > > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good > > > thing that it is > > > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. > > > But, on the > > > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the > > > Kashmiri sentiments. > > > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May > > > be British > > > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but > > > very little is said > > > > on their role to divide Kashmir. > > > > > > > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank > > > cheque in his > > > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew > > > that people in > > > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. > > > But Sheikh > > > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned > > > Sheikhs dream into > > > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments > > > were not > > > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. > > > > > > > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani > > > line on Kashmir > > > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the > > > ‘Pakistani line’ > > > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were > > > numerous other > > > > political representatives. It was war against Indian > > > face in the > > > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, > > > and wanted > > > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then > > > Kashmirs, which they > > > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads > > > fighting each other. > > > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, > > > but at the cost > > > > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or > > > without a cause. > > > > > > > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the > > > same coalition > > > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in > > > 1989. A simple > > > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which > > > is compounded > > > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and > > > every roof top. > > > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of > > > freedom, since both > > > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. > > > Quite boring. > > > > > > > > There are many reasons why a particular community > > > turns > > > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ > > > the cold war ’ > > > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called > > > fundamentalism. Now we > > > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed > > > state. > > > > > > > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has > > > become more > > > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not > > > a healthy sign, > > > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the > > > same time. For > > > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing > > > which can white > > > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on > > > earth will be the > > > > issue. > > > > > > > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of > > > living emerged. > > > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of > > > an average > > > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the > > > masses? How to > > > > talk sustainability in the present without any > > > compromise on their > > > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge > > > before > > > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may > > > be by looking into > > > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather > > > than picking up > > > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But > > > life is not a > > > > sports. It is a big responsibility. > > > > > > > > With love and regards > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana< > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, > > > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." > > > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of > > > AFSpA.Nobody can ensure > > > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring > > > terrorism because its > > > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the > > > UN resolution India > > > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of > > > referendum in the light of > > > > the current role of the Pakistan army. > > > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to > > > tame.Its a highly organised > > > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United > > > States > > > > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in > > > itself but its nothing > > > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens > > > as canon fodder to > > > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an > > > institution in power,one > > > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from > > > Kashmir.In my opinion > > > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in > > > Kashmir is a stable > > > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > > > Self Determination > > > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM > > > > >> Dear Rahul, > > > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this > > > be unstable? > > > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for > > > the 'new > > > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such > > > issues only keep > > > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs > > > to be ensured, > > > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> Subhrodip. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> From: Rahul Asthana > > > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; > > > > >> subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > > > Self > > > > >> Determination > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Dear Subhrodip, > > > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed > > > Kashmir up.AFSpA > > > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop > > > sending > > > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should > > > you or I > > > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support > > > or oppose a > > > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There > > > are people > > > > >> like Junaid who are not really worried > > > about how many > > > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri > > > nationalism is as much > > > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is > > > to those who > > > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of > > > self > > > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not > > > the right of > > > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly > > > submit that we > > > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism > > > and should > > > > >> advocate the course of action that results in > > > resolving the > > > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only > > > speak for myself. > > > > >> Thanks > > > > >> Rahul > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and > > > Self > > > > >> Determination > > > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM > > > > >> > Dear all, > > > > >> > This problem shall continue if the > > > posession of land > > > > >> for > > > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer > > > laws of > > > > >> inheritance > > > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased > > > out of > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > it........................................................................................................ > > > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted > > > either by Indian > > > > >> or by > > > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated > > > and quite > > > > >> > interesting discussions, one question > > > I'd like to > > > > >> > > > > ask..................................... > > > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a > > > limited extent > > > > >> of our > > > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects > > > where they are > > > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I > > > shouldnt rape poorer > > > > >> Gori > > > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a > > > case of dire > > > > >> racism. > > > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak > > > ................ > > > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not > > > India or Pak or > > > > >> Bg > > > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets > > > so sensitive > > > > >> and > > > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper > > > readings > > > > >> suggests it > > > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed > > > act, army > > > > >> appearing > > > > >> > in every domain of social life and so > > > the anti-army > > > > >> forces, > > > > >> > that makes these people crave for a > > > different kind of > > > > >> > independance, from the state which doent > > > want to > > > > >> repeal the > > > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a > > > political > > > > >> struggle, > > > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt > > > the peace > > > > >> option not > > > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however > > > would not be > > > > >> much > > > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or > > > Maharasthra's > > > > >> Son of > > > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. > > > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we > > > could retain > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > kashmir.................................................................... > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ________________________________ > > > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; > > > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir > > > has no case > > > > >> for > > > > >> > self-determination > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Hi Junaid, > > > > >> > There is a difference between a > > > colonized body of land > > > > >> and > > > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of > > > a nation than > > > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, > > > you are > > > > >> defining > > > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of > > > solidarity based > > > > >> on > > > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is > > > that correct? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only > > > occupying > > > > >> nation in > > > > >> > Kashmir or do > > > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as > > > well? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks > > > > >> > Rahul > > > > >> > > > > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > From: Junaid > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why > > > Kashmir has no > > > > >> case for > > > > >> > self-determination > > > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 > > > AM > > > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation > > > > >> > > fighting for its liberation. > > > National > > > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the > > > democratic > > > > >> principle > > > > >> > of > > > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle > > > of > > > > >> > self-determination > > > > >> > > does not > > > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN > > > or any other > > > > >> > > multinational document. > > > > >> > > But on the contrary what is > > > enshrined in the UN > > > > >> > Charter > > > > >> > > emerged from > > > > >> > > an ethical realisation that > > > self-determination is > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > foundational > > > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which > > > in turn is the > > > > >> bed > > > > >> > rock > > > > >> > > for peace. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle > > > was widely > > > > >> > accepted. > > > > >> > > And it proved > > > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the > > > decolonization > > > > >> > movement, > > > > >> > > which > > > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the > > > anti-colonial > > > > >> > struggles in > > > > >> > > the Indian > > > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. > > > (On the > > > > >> betrayal of > > > > >> > > anti-colonial > > > > >> > > struggle though, I might add > > > quickly what Faiz > > > > >> said > > > > >> > "Yeh > > > > >> > > woh seher to > > > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or > > > what Mehjoor > > > > >> spoke > > > > >> > when he > > > > >> > > lamented > > > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a > > > few > > > > >> doors..."). > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been > > > arguing for the > > > > >> same > > > > >> > for > > > > >> > > ever, but > > > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up > > > annihilating each > > > > >> other > > > > >> > before > > > > >> > > realising > > > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It > > > took a lot of > > > > >> > struggle > > > > >> > > and sacrifice > > > > >> > > from the colonised people to make > > > it happen. > > > > >> > Colonisers > > > > >> > > tried every > > > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the > > > eventuality. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has > > > "a case for" > > > > >> > > self-determination or > > > > >> > > not. There is no court that can > > > decide that. At > > > > >> least > > > > >> > it is > > > > >> > > not > > > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if > > > "Indian > > > > >> > nationalists" > > > > >> > > think they > > > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to > > > believe that > > > > >> Indian > > > > >> > > nationalists for > > > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a > > > religious > > > > >> > faith--and in > > > > >> > > fact is a > > > > >> > > religious faith--would come around > > > and change > > > > >> their > > > > >> > opinion > > > > >> > > on it-- > > > > >> > > least through discussion. What is > > > important is > > > > >> that > > > > >> > > Kashmiris think > > > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need > > > for freedom > > > > >> and > > > > >> > > independence. It > > > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 > > > years of > > > > >> > struggle--first > > > > >> > > against Dogra > > > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian > > > rule--the case > > > > >> in > > > > >> > the > > > > >> > > eyes of > > > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than > > > ever. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > National liberation struggles start > > > like pebbles > > > > >> > rolling > > > > >> > > down the > > > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. > > > More and more > > > > >> > people, > > > > >> > > young people, > > > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly > > > than generations > > > > >> > before > > > > >> > > them) feel > > > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning > > > to them. More > > > > >> and > > > > >> > more > > > > >> > > they > > > > >> > > understand this idea of being > > > Kashmiri as > > > > >> running > > > > >> > counter > > > > >> > > to any > > > > >> > > individual or group affliation with > > > the idea of > > > > >> India. > > > > >> > The > > > > >> > > idea of > > > > >> > > India is understood as something > > > that stops them > > > > >> from > > > > >> > > being > > > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is > > > utterly > > > > >> unacceptable > > > > >> > to > > > > >> > > them. The idea > > > > >> > > of independence has grown > > > exponentially since > > > > >> Sheikh > > > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya > > > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for > > > independence > > > > >> when it > > > > >> > > couples itself > > > > >> > > with the need for it, is > > > unstoppable. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more > > > like a national > > > > >> > solidarity > > > > >> > > based on > > > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, > > > instead of > > > > >> feeding > > > > >> > on > > > > >> > > the notions > > > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the > > > chauvinist idea of > > > > >> "the > > > > >> > chosen > > > > >> > > people". > > > > >> > > Within the current global discourse > > > of "Islam", > > > > >> > however, > > > > >> > > Kashmiris too > > > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, > > > which in the > > > > >> > long-run > > > > >> > > does not have > > > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It > > > will wane. > > > > >> > Islamophobia > > > > >> > > cannot hold. > > > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion > > > Muslims all over > > > > >> the > > > > >> > world > > > > >> > > which > > > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend > > > with as > > > > >> enemies. > > > > >> > > Anti-Hindu > > > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of > > > Kashmiris is not > > > > >> only a > > > > >> > > result of the > > > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule > > > but also of > > > > >> how > > > > >> > the > > > > >> > > Indian > > > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get > > > entwined. > > > > >> For > > > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years > > > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly > > > Hindu Dogra rule, > > > > >> and > > > > >> > then > > > > >> > > the transfer > > > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu > > > India, makes > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > imperial-territorial > > > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a > > > symbolic foe. There > > > > >> are > > > > >> > no > > > > >> > > doctrinal > > > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus > > > and Muslims > > > > >> can't sit > > > > >> > and > > > > >> > > live > > > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, > > > they have. No > > > > >> one > > > > >> > in > > > > >> > > Srinagar > > > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's > > > green flag on > > > > >> the > > > > >> > red > > > > >> > > fort. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the > > > Fourth World. A > > > > >> world > > > > >> > which > > > > >> > > is utterly > > > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the > > > Third > > > > >> World--which by > > > > >> > > mimicking the > > > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and > > > substance looks and > > > > >> > behaves > > > > >> > > like former > > > > >> > > colonial countries. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that > > > "Azadi" will be > > > > >> given > > > > >> > on a > > > > >> > > platter. It > > > > >> > > will be taken through everyday > > > anti-occupation > > > > >> > struggle by > > > > >> > > Kashmiris. > > > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have > > > suffered much > > > > >> but > > > > >> > there > > > > >> > > is very > > > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle > > > intensifies, so > > > > >> will > > > > >> > > oppression. But > > > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the > > > occupation. > > > > >> India > > > > >> > will > > > > >> > > leave Kashmir > > > > >> > > because there is no other way. I > > > only hope it > > > > >> doesn't > > > > >> > > happen at the > > > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls > > > the entire > > > > >> > subcontinent. > > > > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on media and > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > city. > > > > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > >> > > with subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> > > List archive: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > > media and the > > > > >> > city. > > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> > List archive: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Yahoo! > > > recommends that you upgrade to > > > > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > > media and the > > > > >> > city. > > > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > >> > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> > List archive: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Love Cricket? > > > Check out live scores, > > > > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here > > > http://cricket.yahoo.com > > > > >> _________________________________________ > > > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media > > > and the > > > > >> city. > > > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >> List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Meera > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aiindex at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 18:50:16 2009 From: aiindex at gmail.com (Harsh Kapoor) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:20:16 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Concerned Citizens Statement on the NHRC report on the alleged encounter at Batla house Message-ID: http://www.anhadin.net/article84.html Media Release 23 July 2009 On 20th May, the Delhi High Court, acting on a petition filed by the People’s union for democratic rights and Anhad, had asked the National Human rights commission to conduct their own inqury into the alleged Batla House encounter of September 2008 and give a report upon it. This order of the High Court was made after the High Court was shown reports of four independent organisations into the encounter, including the report of PUDR, the Delhi union of journalists, the Jamia Teachers Solidarity group, all of which seriously questioned the version of the Delhi police regarding the encounter. These reports and the petition filed by the PUDR had pointed out several specific problems with the version of the Delhi police. In particular, the following questions were raised about the version of the Delhi police. 1. If these boys were killed in a genuine encounter, how did the 17-year-old boy Sajid have four bullet holes on the top of his head, which could only happen if the boy was made to sit down and shot from above. 2. How is the skin peeled off from Atif’s back? This was clearly visible in the photograph taken before his burial which is annexed to the PUDR petition. Obviously Atif had been tortured before being killed. 3. How are the other blunt injuries on the bodies of the boys explained by the police version of the encounter? 4. If the police knew in advance (as they claimed) that these boys in the flat were the terrorists involved in the Delhi and other bomb blasts, why did Inspector Sharma go in without a bullet proof vest? 5. How could 2 of the boys escape from the flat which had only one exit (two doors next to each other) and from a building which had only one exit? It was expected that in these circumstances, the NHRC, would conduct its own investigation into the matter. The report dated 20th July 2009 of the NHRC given to the High Court on 22nd July, however shows that far from conducting any investigation into the matter, the NHRC has merely relied upon the Police reports for their report. They have not even examined or investigated the above questions which were squarely raised in the PUDR petition on which the High Court order was issued to the NHRC. They have not even examined Saif, the third boy picked up by the police from the flat, nor even any of the witnesses of the Batla house area who had deposed before the People’s Tribunal. They have just swallowed the police version hook, line and sinker. And this is despite the fact that there has been no independant police investigation or even a Magisterial enquiry into the encounter as mandated by the NHRC’s own guidelines. It is extremely unfortunate that the premier Human Rights Body set up to investigate Human Rights violations is becoming a rubber stamp for the police. The same attitude of the NHRC was evident when the Supreme Court asked the NHRC to investigate allegations of Rape and Murder against the Salwa Judum. The NHRC send a team of essentially police officers who spoke mainly to the local police and other officials and gave a white washing report. The time has come to seriously reexamine the manner of appointment of members of the NHRC and its powers. The present system of appointment by a committee of Prime Minister, Home Minister, Speaker and Leader of Opposition etc. is not working satisfactorily. All of them seem to want a toothless and tame body which will not question those in power. Since the NHRC report does not address or answer the disquieting questions raised by the several independent fact finding reports about encounter, it is therefore essential that there be an investigation into the "encounter" by an SIT appointed by the Delhi HIgh Court. Signed by: Shabnam Hashmi (Anhad) Moushumi Basu (Secretary, PUDR) Dr. Anoop Saraya (Jan Hastakshep) Harsh Mander (Director, Center for Equity Studies) Sreerekha & Tanvir Fazar (Jamia Teachers Solidarity Group) Colin Gonsalves (Director, Human Rights Law Network) Arundhati Roy (Writer) Kavita Krishnan (CPI ML Liberation) Kamini Jaiswal (Advocate) Mehtab Alam (Association for the protection of democratic rights) Prashant Bhushan (Advocate) Harsh Dobhal (Human Rights Law network) From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 18:54:18 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:54:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> Hi! No, it WAS a Freudian slip. But what I meant was to illustrate the paradox. Here were we, fresh from Delhi, brought up to respect all the symbols of Indian nationhood on display on that narrow road out of Srinagar. Those young men in familiar uniforms were, or were supposed to be, heroes, friends, allies and protectors. From the Kashmiri driver's point of view, they were oppressors and tormentors. People he did not trust. Yet, ironically, WE were scared of their guns while he was not. What I am wondering is, why? Any thoughts? Regards, Meera On 7/23/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > May be she meant, we Indians and the kashmiri, ..... like the north > indian individuals always refer to "madrasi" forgetting that there are five > federal states in earlier "MADRAS" province of british ruled India.,, > colonial hang over, unspoied by the freedom gained.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:17 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > >> >> Dear Ms Meera Rizwi, >> I have not been able to understand the intent of the >> following: >> "The surprise was, that >> even as we, the >> Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri >> driver, unarmed >> and alone, was fighting back." >> >> What do you mean by we, the Indians and .....Kashmiri driver. >> Regards, >> >> (A.K.MALIK) >> >> >> --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Meera Rizvi wrote: >> >> > From: Meera Rizvi >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination >> > To: "Inder Salim" >> > Cc: "reader-list" >> > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 9:18 AM >> > Dear All, >> > >> > I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a >> > deeply disturbing >> > book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the >> > book and the >> > journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges >> > clearly is that >> > for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years, >> > Kashmir has >> > lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the >> > army. >> > >> > Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an >> > army check post. >> > The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the >> > army truck moving >> > in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him >> > up and >> > threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that >> > even as we, the >> > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri >> > driver, unarmed >> > and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag >> > him into a nearby >> > orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming >> > from the opposite >> > direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The >> > jawans backed off >> > and the driver became more aggressive. >> > >> > The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the >> > swagger of the >> > conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped >> > on the driver >> > were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old >> > niece burst into >> > tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and >> > assuage her fears. >> > >> > Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it >> > is dangerous to >> > have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which >> > has grown up with >> > that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it. >> > Their instinct for >> > survival has been dulled by years of brutality and >> > violence. They are no >> > longer afraid to die. >> > >> > Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think >> > so. Can peace be >> > brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real >> > or percieved >> > oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets >> > protesting. Isn't >> > that democracy? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Meera >> > >> > >> > On 7/19/09, Inder Salim >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Dear All >> > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar >> > names throwing >> > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my >> > own bit, as >> > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue >> > is alive as much >> > > as it was in 1947. >> > > >> > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who >> > stood like a wall >> > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he >> > not been so >> > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another >> > Swat, or worse >> > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. >> > Where Gandhi >> > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence >> > Sheikh succeeded in >> > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted >> > good for Kashmiris >> > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. >> > > >> > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid >> > by Indian >> > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord >> > which obviously >> > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead >> > bone, which is >> > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to >> > eat the Indian >> > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson >> > Mandela of this >> > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own >> > complacency led him to >> > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most >> > probably Shikeh >> > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the >> > luxuries of power >> > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. >> > > >> > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in >> > Kashmir is less >> > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, >> > and as reports >> > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. >> > > >> > > The question, now is that who are these >> > unfortunate people who >> > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in >> > the valley. >> > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good >> > thing that it is >> > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. >> > But, on the >> > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the >> > Kashmiri sentiments. >> > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May >> > be British >> > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but >> > very little is said >> > > on their role to divide Kashmir. >> > > >> > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank >> > cheque in his >> > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew >> > that people in >> > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. >> > But Sheikh >> > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned >> > Sheikhs dream into >> > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments >> > were not >> > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. >> > > >> > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani >> > line on Kashmir >> > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the >> > ‘Pakistani line’ >> > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were >> > numerous other >> > > political representatives. It was war against Indian >> > face in the >> > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, >> > and wanted >> > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then >> > Kashmirs, which they >> > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads >> > fighting each other. >> > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, >> > but at the cost >> > > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or >> > without a cause. >> > > >> > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the >> > same coalition >> > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in >> > 1989. A simple >> > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which >> > is compounded >> > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and >> > every roof top. >> > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of >> > freedom, since both >> > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. >> > Quite boring. >> > > >> > > There are many reasons why a particular community >> > turns >> > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ >> > the cold war ’ >> > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called >> > fundamentalism. Now we >> > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed >> > state. >> > > >> > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has >> > become more >> > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not >> > a healthy sign, >> > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the >> > same time. For >> > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing >> > which can white >> > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on >> > earth will be the >> > > issue. >> > > >> > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of >> > living emerged. >> > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of >> > an average >> > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the >> > masses? How to >> > > talk sustainability in the present without any >> > compromise on their >> > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge >> > before >> > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may >> > be by looking into >> > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather >> > than picking up >> > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But >> > life is not a >> > > sports. It is a big responsibility. >> > > >> > > With love and regards >> > > is >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul Asthana> > >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >> > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." >> > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of >> > AFSpA.Nobody can ensure >> > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring >> > terrorism because its >> > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the >> > UN resolution India >> > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of >> > referendum in the light of >> > > the current role of the Pakistan army. >> > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to >> > tame.Its a highly organised >> > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United >> > States >> > > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in >> > itself but its nothing >> > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens >> > as canon fodder to >> > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an >> > institution in power,one >> > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from >> > Kashmir.In my opinion >> > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in >> > Kashmir is a stable >> > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. >> > > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta >> > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and >> > Self Determination >> > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM >> > > >> Dear Rahul, >> > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this >> > be unstable? >> > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for >> > the 'new >> > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such >> > issues only keep >> > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs >> > to be ensured, >> > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. >> > > >> Regards, >> > > >> Subhrodip. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> ________________________________ >> > > >> From: Rahul Asthana >> > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; >> > > >> subhrodip sengupta >> > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM >> > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and >> > Self >> > > >> Determination >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> Dear Subhrodip, >> > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed >> > Kashmir up.AFSpA >> > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop >> > sending >> > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should >> > you or I >> > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support >> > or oppose a >> > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There >> > are people >> > > >> like Junaid who are not really worried >> > about how many >> > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri >> > nationalism is as much >> > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is >> > to those who >> > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of >> > self >> > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not >> > the right of >> > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly >> > submit that we >> > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism >> > and should >> > > >> advocate the course of action that results in >> > resolving the >> > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only >> > speak for myself. >> > > >> Thanks >> > > >> Rahul >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >> > >> > > >> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta >> > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and >> > Self >> > > >> Determination >> > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM >> > > >> > Dear all, >> > > >> > This problem shall continue if the >> > posession of land >> > > >> for >> > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer >> > laws of >> > > >> inheritance >> > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased >> > out of >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > >> > >> it........................................................................................................ >> > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted >> > either by Indian >> > > >> or by >> > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated >> > and quite >> > > >> > interesting discussions, one question >> > I'd like to >> > > >> > >> > ask..................................... >> > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a >> > limited extent >> > > >> of our >> > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects >> > where they are >> > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I >> > shouldnt rape poorer >> > > >> Gori >> > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a >> > case of dire >> > > >> racism. >> > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak >> > ................ >> > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not >> > India or Pak or >> > > >> Bg >> > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets >> > so sensitive >> > > >> and >> > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper >> > readings >> > > >> suggests it >> > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed >> > act, army >> > > >> appearing >> > > >> > in every domain of social life and so >> > the anti-army >> > > >> forces, >> > > >> > that makes these people crave for a >> > different kind of >> > > >> > independance, from the state which doent >> > want to >> > > >> repeal the >> > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a >> > political >> > > >> struggle, >> > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt >> > the peace >> > > >> option not >> > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however >> > would not be >> > > >> much >> > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or >> > Maharasthra's >> > > >> Son of >> > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. >> > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we >> > could retain >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > >> > >> kashmir.................................................................... >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > ________________________________ >> > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana >> > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; >> > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM >> > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir >> > has no case >> > > >> for >> > > >> > self-determination >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Hi Junaid, >> > > >> > There is a difference between a >> > colonized body of land >> > > >> and >> > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of >> > a nation than >> > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, >> > you are >> > > >> defining >> > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of >> > solidarity based >> > > >> on >> > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is >> > that correct? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only >> > occupying >> > > >> nation in >> > > >> > Kashmir or do >> > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as >> > well? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Thanks >> > > >> > Rahul >> > > >> > >> > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid >> > > >> > wrote: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > From: Junaid >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why >> > Kashmir has no >> > > >> case for >> > > >> > self-determination >> > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net >> > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 >> > AM >> > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation >> > > >> > > fighting for its liberation. >> > National >> > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the >> > democratic >> > > >> principle >> > > >> > of >> > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle >> > of >> > > >> > self-determination >> > > >> > > does not >> > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN >> > or any other >> > > >> > > multinational document. >> > > >> > > But on the contrary what is >> > enshrined in the UN >> > > >> > Charter >> > > >> > > emerged from >> > > >> > > an ethical realisation that >> > self-determination is >> > > >> the >> > > >> > > foundational >> > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which >> > in turn is the >> > > >> bed >> > > >> > rock >> > > >> > > for peace. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle >> > was widely >> > > >> > accepted. >> > > >> > > And it proved >> > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the >> > decolonization >> > > >> > movement, >> > > >> > > which >> > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the >> > anti-colonial >> > > >> > struggles in >> > > >> > > the Indian >> > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. >> > (On the >> > > >> betrayal of >> > > >> > > anti-colonial >> > > >> > > struggle though, I might add >> > quickly what Faiz >> > > >> said >> > > >> > "Yeh >> > > >> > > woh seher to >> > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or >> > what Mehjoor >> > > >> spoke >> > > >> > when he >> > > >> > > lamented >> > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a >> > few >> > > >> doors..."). >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been >> > arguing for the >> > > >> same >> > > >> > for >> > > >> > > ever, but >> > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up >> > annihilating each >> > > >> other >> > > >> > before >> > > >> > > realising >> > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It >> > took a lot of >> > > >> > struggle >> > > >> > > and sacrifice >> > > >> > > from the colonised people to make >> > it happen. >> > > >> > Colonisers >> > > >> > > tried every >> > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the >> > eventuality. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has >> > "a case for" >> > > >> > > self-determination or >> > > >> > > not. There is no court that can >> > decide that. At >> > > >> least >> > > >> > it is >> > > >> > > not >> > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if >> > "Indian >> > > >> > nationalists" >> > > >> > > think they >> > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to >> > believe that >> > > >> Indian >> > > >> > > nationalists for >> > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a >> > religious >> > > >> > faith--and in >> > > >> > > fact is a >> > > >> > > religious faith--would come around >> > and change >> > > >> their >> > > >> > opinion >> > > >> > > on it-- >> > > >> > > least through discussion. What is >> > important is >> > > >> that >> > > >> > > Kashmiris think >> > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need >> > for freedom >> > > >> and >> > > >> > > independence. It >> > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 >> > years of >> > > >> > struggle--first >> > > >> > > against Dogra >> > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian >> > rule--the case >> > > >> in >> > > >> > the >> > > >> > > eyes of >> > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than >> > ever. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > National liberation struggles start >> > like pebbles >> > > >> > rolling >> > > >> > > down the >> > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. >> > More and more >> > > >> > people, >> > > >> > > young people, >> > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly >> > than generations >> > > >> > before >> > > >> > > them) feel >> > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning >> > to them. More >> > > >> and >> > > >> > more >> > > >> > > they >> > > >> > > understand this idea of being >> > Kashmiri as >> > > >> running >> > > >> > counter >> > > >> > > to any >> > > >> > > individual or group affliation with >> > the idea of >> > > >> India. >> > > >> > The >> > > >> > > idea of >> > > >> > > India is understood as something >> > that stops them >> > > >> from >> > > >> > > being >> > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is >> > utterly >> > > >> unacceptable >> > > >> > to >> > > >> > > them. The idea >> > > >> > > of independence has grown >> > exponentially since >> > > >> Sheikh >> > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya >> > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for >> > independence >> > > >> when it >> > > >> > > couples itself >> > > >> > > with the need for it, is >> > unstoppable. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more >> > like a national >> > > >> > solidarity >> > > >> > > based on >> > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, >> > instead of >> > > >> feeding >> > > >> > on >> > > >> > > the notions >> > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the >> > chauvinist idea of >> > > >> "the >> > > >> > chosen >> > > >> > > people". >> > > >> > > Within the current global discourse >> > of "Islam", >> > > >> > however, >> > > >> > > Kashmiris too >> > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, >> > which in the >> > > >> > long-run >> > > >> > > does not have >> > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It >> > will wane. >> > > >> > Islamophobia >> > > >> > > cannot hold. >> > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion >> > Muslims all over >> > > >> the >> > > >> > world >> > > >> > > which >> > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend >> > with as >> > > >> enemies. >> > > >> > > Anti-Hindu >> > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of >> > Kashmiris is not >> > > >> only a >> > > >> > > result of the >> > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule >> > but also of >> > > >> how >> > > >> > the >> > > >> > > Indian >> > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get >> > entwined. >> > > >> For >> > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years >> > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly >> > Hindu Dogra rule, >> > > >> and >> > > >> > then >> > > >> > > the transfer >> > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu >> > India, makes >> > > >> the >> > > >> > > imperial-territorial >> > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a >> > symbolic foe. There >> > > >> are >> > > >> > no >> > > >> > > doctrinal >> > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus >> > and Muslims >> > > >> can't sit >> > > >> > and >> > > >> > > live >> > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, >> > they have. No >> > > >> one >> > > >> > in >> > > >> > > Srinagar >> > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's >> > green flag on >> > > >> the >> > > >> > red >> > > >> > > fort. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the >> > Fourth World. A >> > > >> world >> > > >> > which >> > > >> > > is utterly >> > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the >> > Third >> > > >> World--which by >> > > >> > > mimicking the >> > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and >> > substance looks and >> > > >> > behaves >> > > >> > > like former >> > > >> > > colonial countries. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that >> > "Azadi" will be >> > > >> given >> > > >> > on a >> > > >> > > platter. It >> > > >> > > will be taken through everyday >> > anti-occupation >> > > >> > struggle by >> > > >> > > Kashmiris. >> > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have >> > suffered much >> > > >> but >> > > >> > there >> > > >> > > is very >> > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle >> > intensifies, so >> > > >> will >> > > >> > > oppression. But >> > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the >> > occupation. >> > > >> India >> > > >> > will >> > > >> > > leave Kashmir >> > > >> > > because there is no other way. I >> > only hope it >> > > >> doesn't >> > > >> > > happen at the >> > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls >> > the entire >> > > >> > subcontinent. >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion >> > list on media and >> > > >> the >> > > >> > > city. >> > > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > >> > > with subscribe in the subject >> > header. >> > > >> > > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > >> > > List archive: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> > media and the >> > > >> > city. >> > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > >> > List archive: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Yahoo! >> > recommends that you upgrade to >> > > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. >> > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> > > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> > media and the >> > > >> > city. >> > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > >> > List archive: >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> Love Cricket? >> > Check out live scores, >> > > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here >> > http://cricket.yahoo.com >> > > >> _________________________________________ >> > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media >> > and the >> > > >> city. >> > > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > >> List archive: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> > the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Meera >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> > city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > > -- Meera From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 19:25:16 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:55:16 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com><842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> Perhaps because it was weighing upon your mind that even extremists have perpetrated gruesome acts in the military uniform and that being in uniform does not necessarily mean that the person is from the military. Just a possibility. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meera Rizvi" To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" Cc: "Sarai List" Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > Hi! > > No, it WAS a Freudian slip. But what I meant was to illustrate the > paradox. > Here were we, fresh from Delhi, brought up to respect all the symbols of > Indian nationhood on display on that narrow road out of Srinagar. Those > young men in familiar uniforms were, or were supposed to be, heroes, > friends, allies and protectors. From the Kashmiri driver's point of view, > they were oppressors and tormentors. People he did not trust. Yet, > ironically, WE were scared of their guns while he was not. What I am > wondering is, why? Any thoughts? > > Regards, > > Meera > > > On 7/23/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > wrote: >> >> May be she meant, we Indians and the kashmiri, ..... like the north >> indian individuals always refer to "madrasi" forgetting that there are >> five >> federal states in earlier "MADRAS" province of british ruled India.,, >> colonial hang over, unspoied by the freedom gained.! >> >> Regards, >> >> Rajen. >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:17 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: >> >>> >>> Dear Ms Meera Rizwi, >>> I have not been able to understand the intent of the >>> following: >>> "The surprise was, that >>> even as we, the >>> Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri >>> driver, unarmed >>> and alone, was fighting back." >>> >>> What do you mean by we, the Indians and .....Kashmiri driver. >>> Regards, >>> >>> (A.K.MALIK) >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Meera Rizvi wrote: >>> >>> > From: Meera Rizvi >>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination >>> > To: "Inder Salim" >>> > Cc: "reader-list" >>> > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 9:18 AM >>> > Dear All, >>> > >>> > I have just read 'Curfewed Night' by Basharat Peer - a >>> > deeply disturbing >>> > book. While we can argue the merits and demerits of the >>> > book and the >>> > journalistic ethics of its author, one thing that emerges >>> > clearly is that >>> > for peace to be lasting, it must be just. For twenty years, >>> > Kashmir has >>> > lived in the shadows of guns - those of militants and the >>> > army. >>> > >>> > Recently, on a visit to Kashmir, our cab was stopped at an >>> > army check post. >>> > The fault of the driver - he was driving too close to the >>> > army truck moving >>> > in front. Army men were aggressive and brutal, roughing him >>> > up and >>> > threatening him with an 'encounter'. The surprise was, that >>> > even as we, the >>> > Indians were cowering in the back of our cab, the Kashmiri >>> > driver, unarmed >>> > and alone, was fighting back. The army men tried to drag >>> > him into a nearby >>> > orchard. He resisted and instead flagged down cars coming >>> > from the opposite >>> > direction. In a short time, there was a traffic jam. The >>> > jawans backed off >>> > and the driver became more aggressive. >>> > >>> > The CRPF jawans were rude and abusive and maintained the >>> > swagger of the >>> > conqueror with the conquered. The humiliations they heaped >>> > on the driver >>> > were unjustified. Yet, paradoxically, when my 9-year old >>> > niece burst into >>> > tears, these same jawans took a moment off to console and >>> > assuage her fears. >>> > >>> > Kashmir is complex and complicated. It is a place where it >>> > is dangerous to >>> > have an opinion. And there is an entire generation which >>> > has grown up with >>> > that fear. So much so, that they no longer recognize it. >>> > Their instinct for >>> > survival has been dulled by years of brutality and >>> > violence. They are no >>> > longer afraid to die. >>> > >>> > Can peace be forced on these people? Somehow, I don't think >>> > so. Can peace be >>> > brokered? Maybe....But it would take time to undo the real >>> > or percieved >>> > oppression of decades. MEanwhile, they are out on streets >>> > protesting. Isn't >>> > that democracy? >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > >>> > Meera >>> > >>> > >>> > On 7/19/09, Inder Salim >>> > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > Dear All >>> > > KASHMIR ,once again on the List, and we see, familiar >>> > names throwing >>> > > up their well known convictions.I am also throwing my >>> > own bit, as >>> > > usual. Nothing new, which confirms that Kashmir issue >>> > is alive as much >>> > > as it was in 1947. >>> > > >>> > > Here, I cant stop thinking about Sheikh Abdullah who >>> > stood like a wall >>> > > between the merger of Kashmir with Pakistan. Had he >>> > not been so >>> > > courageous and far sighted, Kashmir would been another >>> > Swat, or worse >>> > > in the present. Sheikh was a real hero of his times. >>> > Where Gandhi >>> > > failed to curb the large scale communal violence >>> > Sheikh succeeded in >>> > > Kashmir. He was a down to earth Kashmiri who wanted >>> > good for Kashmiris >>> > > irrespective of religious and ethnic considerations. >>> > > >>> > > But one wrong step on the intellectual-land-mine laid >>> > by Indian >>> > > Government made us to witness Indira-Sheikh Accord >>> > which obviously >>> > > blew him to bits . He suffered a dent in his forehead >>> > bone, which is >>> > > now part of his image in Kashmir. Had he not agreed to >>> > eat the Indian >>> > > bait, he would have been nothing less than Nelson >>> > Mandela of this >>> > > subcontinent. But alas, his coterie and his own >>> > complacency led him to >>> > > his downfall. But, this is what I feel, and most >>> > probably Shikeh >>> > > himself was a changed man and wanted to relish the >>> > luxuries of power >>> > > which Indira Gandhi granted him blindly. >>> > > >>> > > The present day representatives of that 1947 issue in >>> > Kashmir is less >>> > > perfect than what Sheikh had innately in his bones, >>> > and as reports >>> > > fall in, they are already on Indian diet. >>> > > >>> > > The question, now is that who are these >>> > unfortunate people who >>> > > failed to see a genuine leadership/representative in >>> > the valley. >>> > > Paradoxically, Indian Goverentment has done one good >>> > thing that it is >>> > > aborted all the efforts of Pakistan to annex Kashmir. >>> > But, on the >>> > > other hand it has done nothing to understand the >>> > Kashmiri sentiments. >>> > > Kashmir deserved freedom in 47 but it was denied. May >>> > be British >>> > > rulers were comfortable with that arrangement, but >>> > very little is said >>> > > on their role to divide Kashmir. >>> > > >>> > > Jinnah was not off the mark in his comment ‘blank >>> > cheque in his >>> > > pocket’ while speaking on Kashmir, since he knew >>> > that people in >>> > > Kashmir would happily agree to join Pakistan in 1947. >>> > But Sheikh >>> > > turned his dream into a nightmare, and Nehru turned >>> > Sheikhs dream into >>> > > a nightmare. It is all sad, that Kashmiri sentiments >>> > were not >>> > > respected by these two nation theorist of 1947. >>> > > >>> > > In 1990, Kashmiris had no choice but to eat Pakistani >>> > line on Kashmir >>> > > issue, since election were rigged openly. In the >>> > ‘Pakistani line’ >>> > > Kashmiri Hindus were the first targets, and so were >>> > numerous other >>> > > political representatives. It was war against Indian >>> > face in the >>> > > valley. But Pakistan again had its own axe to grind, >>> > and wanted >>> > > Kashmiris to become Pakistanis first and then >>> > Kashmirs, which they >>> > > denied, and so we saw kashmiri militants/jihads >>> > fighting each other. >>> > > Indian diplomacy gained, Pakistani diplomacy suffered, >>> > but at the cost >>> > > of thousands of kashmiris dead, for a cause or >>> > without a cause. >>> > > >>> > > It is ironical that after all these years we have the >>> > same coalition >>> > > in power in Kashmir which openly rigged elections in >>> > 1989. A simple >>> > > anger against this kind of polity is inevitable, which >>> > is compounded >>> > > by the presence of troops on every paddy field and >>> > every roof top. >>> > > Nothing can prevent Kashmir from its agenda of >>> > freedom, since both >>> > > Indian and Pakistani stands on Kashmir are unaltered. >>> > Quite boring. >>> > > >>> > > There are many reasons why a particular community >>> > turns >>> > > fundamentalist. We have all the reasons to blame‘ >>> > the cold war ’ >>> > > tactics which gave birth to this monster called >>> > fundamentalism. Now we >>> > > know why Turkey is not, and why Pakistan is a failed >>> > state. >>> > > >>> > > Because of Indian mind set, I believe, Kashmir has >>> > become more >>> > > religious minded over the last 20 years , which is not >>> > a healthy sign, >>> > > but modernity too has failed on various counts at the >>> > same time. For >>> > > example, devastation of the environment is one thing >>> > which can white >>> > > wash all the pending issues and only our survival on >>> > earth will be the >>> > > issue. >>> > > >>> > > In Kashmir, no new politics emerged, no new ways of >>> > living emerged. >>> > > Creating a new nation state is obviously the dream of >>> > an average >>> > > Kashmiri, but is that dream deep enough to sustain the >>> > masses? How to >>> > > talk sustainability in the present without any >>> > compromise on their >>> > > cherished dream of a free state? That is the challenge >>> > before >>> > > Kashmiris. They still can guide the world, but may >>> > be by looking into >>> > > their language, and their sufi ways of living, rather >>> > than picking up >>> > > a gun which is as easy as holding a cricket bat. But >>> > life is not a >>> > > sports. It is a big responsibility. >>> > > >>> > > With love and regards >>> > > is >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rahul >>> > > Asthana>> > >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > "First a peaceful life needs to be ensured, >>> > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion." >>> > > > So what are you proposing?I support withdrawal of >>> > AFSpA.Nobody can ensure >>> > > Pakistan army discontinuing its policy of sponsoring >>> > terrorism because its >>> > > their bread and butter.If you look at the terms of the >>> > UN resolution India >>> > > is under no obligation to provide for any sort of >>> > referendum in the light of >>> > > the current role of the Pakistan army. >>> > > > The Pakistan army is not an easy monster to >>> > tame.Its a highly organised >>> > > criminal mafia which has full support of the United >>> > States >>> > > administration.Indian state is a ruthless entity in >>> > itself but its nothing >>> > > compared to the Pakistan army which uses its citizens >>> > as canon fodder to >>> > > blackmail other governments. With such kind of an >>> > institution in power,one >>> > > should not expect India to unilaterally disengage from >>> > Kashmir.In my opinion >>> > > the prerequisite for a long term stable solution in >>> > Kashmir is a stable >>> > > democracy in Pakistan with a defanged army. >>> > > > >>> > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > >> From: subhrodip sengupta >>> > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and >>> > Self Determination >>> > > >> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >>> > > >> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 8:46 AM >>> > > >> Dear Rahul, >>> > > >> Would not any war time settlement like this >>> > be unstable? >>> > > >> Will not the terms be economically harsh for >>> > the 'new >>> > > >> state'? Will not a promise or hope for such >>> > issues only keep >>> > > >> violence alive? First a peaceful life needs >>> > to be ensured, >>> > > >> so it is by choice and not co-ercion. >>> > > >> Regards, >>> > > >> Subhrodip. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> ________________________________ >>> > > >> From: Rahul Asthana >>> > > >> To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; >>> > > >> subhrodip sengupta >>> > > >> Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 7:37:39 AM >>> > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and >>> > Self >>> > > >> Determination >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Dear Subhrodip, >>> > > >> I agree.India and Pakistan have messed >>> > Kashmir up.AFSpA >>> > > >> should be scrapped and Pakistan should stop >>> > sending >>> > > >> terrorists . The question is what role should >>> > you or I >>> > > >> choose.What should be our criteria to support >>> > or oppose a >>> > > >> particular course of action in Kashmir? There >>> > are people >>> > > >> like Junaid who are not really worried >>> > about how many >>> > > >> people die everyday.For them Kashmiri >>> > nationalism is as much >>> > > >> an article of faith as Indian Nationalism is >>> > to those who >>> > > >> believe in the "Atut Ang theory".The right of >>> > self >>> > > >> determination is not axiomatic and so is not >>> > the right of >>> > > >> India to retain Kashmir by force. I humbly >>> > submit that we >>> > > >> should not be dogmatic about any nationalism >>> > and should >>> > > >> advocate the course of action that results in >>> > resolving the >>> > > >> impasse in Kashmir.Then again, I can only >>> > speak for myself. >>> > > >> Thanks >>> > > >> Rahul >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> --- On Sun, 7/19/09, subhrodip sengupta >>> > >>> > > >> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> > From: subhrodip sengupta >>> > > >> > Subject: [Reader-list] On Kashmir and >>> > Self >>> > > >> Determination >>> > > >> > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >>> > > >> > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:15 AM >>> > > >> > Dear all, >>> > > >> > This problem shall continue if the >>> > posession of land >>> > > >> for >>> > > >> > all those who lost it due to the queer >>> > laws of >>> > > >> inheritance >>> > > >> > in Kashmir, and those who were chased >>> > out of >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> >>> > > >>> > >>> it........................................................................................................ >>> > > >> > Kashmiri Pandits and people assaulted >>> > either by Indian >>> > > >> or by >>> > > >> > militant Armed forces. Amidst the heated >>> > and quite >>> > > >> > interesting discussions, one question >>> > I'd like to >>> > > >> > >>> > ask..................................... >>> > > >> > Religion, Nation etc. should occupy a >>> > limited extent >>> > > >> of our >>> > > >> > lives so that they crown those aspects >>> > where they are >>> > > >> > needed. Because I am an Indian, I >>> > shouldnt rape poorer >>> > > >> Gori >>> > > >> > Chamris just for the pleasure of it, a >>> > case of dire >>> > > >> racism. >>> > > >> > Introducing Baluchstan, made Pak >>> > ................ >>> > > >> > Why should not kasmiris decide and Not >>> > India or Pak or >>> > > >> Bg >>> > > >> > Bro? Ok, but lets see why this sore gets >>> > so sensitive >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> > hurts at slightest touch, my newspaper >>> > readings >>> > > >> suggests it >>> > > >> > is the Indian armed forces and the armed >>> > act, army >>> > > >> appearing >>> > > >> > in every domain of social life and so >>> > the anti-army >>> > > >> forces, >>> > > >> > that makes these people crave for a >>> > different kind of >>> > > >> > independance, from the state which doent >>> > want to >>> > > >> repeal the >>> > > >> > special armed forces act, riddled in a >>> > political >>> > > >> struggle, >>> > > >> > banded into the freedom wagon. Why isnt >>> > the peace >>> > > >> option not >>> > > >> > recognised? My reading of this however >>> > would not be >>> > > >> much >>> > > >> > different from Lallu time railways or >>> > Maharasthra's >>> > > >> Son of >>> > > >> > Soil pol by Raj Thackrey.............. >>> > > >> > Only if life was more normalised, we >>> > could retain >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> >>> > > >>> > >>> kashmir.................................................................... >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > ________________________________ >>> > > >> > From: Rahul Asthana >>> > > >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; >>> > > >> > Junaid justjunaid at gmail..com >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 19 July, 2009 3:05:13 AM >>> > > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why Kashmir >>> > has no case >>> > > >> for >>> > > >> > self-determination >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > Hi Junaid, >>> > > >> > There is a difference between a >>> > colonized body of land >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> > a constituent state of a democracy. >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > What do you think makes Kashmir more of >>> > a nation than >>> > > >> > say,Tamil Nadu?If I am getting it right, >>> > you are >>> > > >> defining >>> > > >> > Kashmir nation through "a sense of >>> > solidarity based >>> > > >> on >>> > > >> > principle of justice and freedom".Is >>> > that correct? >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > Also, in your opinion,is India the only >>> > occupying >>> > > >> nation in >>> > > >> > Kashmir or do >>> > > >> > you give Pakistan that distinction as >>> > well? >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > Thanks >>> > > >> > Rahul >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Junaid >>> > > >> > wrote: >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > > From: Junaid >>> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Why >>> > Kashmir has no >>> > > >> case for >>> > > >> > self-determination >>> > > >> > > To: reader-list at sarai.net >>> > > >> > > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:44 >>> > AM >>> > > >> > > Kashmir is a case of a nation >>> > > >> > > fighting for its liberation. >>> > National >>> > > >> > > liberation struggles work on the >>> > democratic >>> > > >> principle >>> > > >> > of >>> > > >> > > self-determination.. This principle >>> > of >>> > > >> > self-determination >>> > > >> > > does not >>> > > >> > > emerge from the charter of the UN >>> > or any other >>> > > >> > > multinational document. >>> > > >> > > But on the contrary what is >>> > enshrined in the UN >>> > > >> > Charter >>> > > >> > > emerged from >>> > > >> > > an ethical realisation that >>> > self-determination is >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> > > foundational >>> > > >> > > principle to achieve justice-which >>> > in turn is the >>> > > >> bed >>> > > >> > rock >>> > > >> > > for peace. >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > Two world wars later this principle >>> > was widely >>> > > >> > accepted. >>> > > >> > > And it proved >>> > > >> > > to be a shot in the arm for the >>> > decolonization >>> > > >> > movement, >>> > > >> > > which >>> > > >> > > resulted in the victory for the >>> > anti-colonial >>> > > >> > struggles in >>> > > >> > > the Indian >>> > > >> > > subcontinent and in other places. >>> > (On the >>> > > >> betrayal of >>> > > >> > > anti-colonial >>> > > >> > > struggle though, I might add >>> > quickly what Faiz >>> > > >> said >>> > > >> > "Yeh >>> > > >> > > woh seher to >>> > > >> > > nahin jis ki aarizu lekar.." or >>> > what Mehjoor >>> > > >> spoke >>> > > >> > when he >>> > > >> > > lamented >>> > > >> > > the "Freedom, you knocked only on a >>> > few >>> > > >> doors..."). >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > Anti-colonial strugglers had been >>> > arguing for the >>> > > >> same >>> > > >> > for >>> > > >> > > ever, but >>> > > >> > > colonizers almost ended up >>> > annihilating each >>> > > >> other >>> > > >> > before >>> > > >> > > realising >>> > > >> > > colonialism couldn't continue. It >>> > took a lot of >>> > > >> > struggle >>> > > >> > > and sacrifice >>> > > >> > > from the colonised people to make >>> > it happen. >>> > > >> > Colonisers >>> > > >> > > tried every >>> > > >> > > trick up their sleeve to defer the >>> > eventuality. >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > It is not important if Kashmir has >>> > "a case for" >>> > > >> > > self-determination or >>> > > >> > > not. There is no court that can >>> > decide that. At >>> > > >> least >>> > > >> > it is >>> > > >> > > not >>> > > >> > > important for Kashmiris to know if >>> > "Indian >>> > > >> > nationalists" >>> > > >> > > think they >>> > > >> > > have a case. It would be naive to >>> > believe that >>> > > >> Indian >>> > > >> > > nationalists for >>> > > >> > > whom "the idea of India" is like a >>> > religious >>> > > >> > faith--and in >>> > > >> > > fact is a >>> > > >> > > religious faith--would come around >>> > and change >>> > > >> their >>> > > >> > opinion >>> > > >> > > on it-- >>> > > >> > > least through discussion. What is >>> > important is >>> > > >> that >>> > > >> > > Kashmiris think >>> > > >> > > that they have the case, and a need >>> > for freedom >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> > > independence. It >>> > > >> > > is clear that over the last 80 >>> > years of >>> > > >> > struggle--first >>> > > >> > > against Dogra >>> > > >> > > rulers and then against the Indian >>> > rule--the case >>> > > >> in >>> > > >> > the >>> > > >> > > eyes of >>> > > >> > > Kashmiris has grown stronger than >>> > ever. >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > National liberation struggles start >>> > like pebbles >>> > > >> > rolling >>> > > >> > > down the >>> > > >> > > hill, and end up like avalanches. >>> > More and more >>> > > >> > people, >>> > > >> > > young people, >>> > > >> > > even small kids, (more strongly >>> > than generations >>> > > >> > before >>> > > >> > > them) feel >>> > > >> > > that being Kashmiri has a meaning >>> > to them. More >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> > more >>> > > >> > > they >>> > > >> > > understand this idea of being >>> > Kashmiri as >>> > > >> running >>> > > >> > counter >>> > > >> > > to any >>> > > >> > > individual or group affliation with >>> > the idea of >>> > > >> India. >>> > > >> > The >>> > > >> > > idea of >>> > > >> > > India is understood as something >>> > that stops them >>> > > >> from >>> > > >> > > being >>> > > >> > > Kashmiri--a condition which is >>> > utterly >>> > > >> unacceptable >>> > > >> > to >>> > > >> > > them. The idea >>> > > >> > > of independence has grown >>> > exponentially since >>> > > >> Sheikh >>> > > >> > > Abdullah's Naya >>> > > >> > > Kashmir document. The desire for >>> > independence >>> > > >> when it >>> > > >> > > couples itself >>> > > >> > > with the need for it, is >>> > unstoppable. >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > Nationalism in Kashmir acts more >>> > like a national >>> > > >> > solidarity >>> > > >> > > based on >>> > > >> > > principles of justice and freedom, >>> > instead of >>> > > >> feeding >>> > > >> > on >>> > > >> > > the notions >>> > > >> > > of "a glorious past" or the >>> > chauvinist idea of >>> > > >> "the >>> > > >> > chosen >>> > > >> > > people". >>> > > >> > > Within the current global discourse >>> > of "Islam", >>> > > >> > however, >>> > > >> > > Kashmiris too >>> > > >> > > get a bad name for being Muslims, >>> > which in the >>> > > >> > long-run >>> > > >> > > does not have >>> > > >> > > drastic consequences though. It >>> > will wane. >>> > > >> > Islamophobia >>> > > >> > > cannot hold. >>> > > >> > > There are more than 1.5 billion >>> > Muslims all over >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> > world >>> > > >> > > which >>> > > >> > > otherwise the world have to contend >>> > with as >>> > > >> enemies. >>> > > >> > > Anti-Hindu >>> > > >> > > sentiment in some sections of >>> > Kashmiris is not >>> > > >> only a >>> > > >> > > result of the >>> > > >> > > past experiences of the Dogra rule >>> > but also of >>> > > >> how >>> > > >> > the >>> > > >> > > Indian >>> > > >> > > occupation and the neo-Hinduism get >>> > entwined. >>> > > >> For >>> > > >> > > Kashmiris, 80 years >>> > > >> > > of struggle against an overtly >>> > Hindu Dogra rule, >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> > then >>> > > >> > > the transfer >>> > > >> > > of rule to an increasingly Hindu >>> > India, makes >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> > > imperial-territorial >>> > > >> > > discourse of neo-Hinduism a >>> > symbolic foe. There >>> > > >> are >>> > > >> > no >>> > > >> > > doctrinal >>> > > >> > > issues in the sense where Hindus >>> > and Muslims >>> > > >> can't sit >>> > > >> > and >>> > > >> > > live >>> > > >> > > together. In Kashmir, and in India, >>> > they have. No >>> > > >> one >>> > > >> > in >>> > > >> > > Srinagar >>> > > >> > > would say they want to put Islam's >>> > green flag on >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> > red >>> > > >> > > fort. >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > This is the nationalism of the >>> > Fourth World. A >>> > > >> world >>> > > >> > which >>> > > >> > > is utterly >>> > > >> > > betrayed by the promises of the >>> > Third >>> > > >> World--which by >>> > > >> > > mimicking the >>> > > >> > > First World, in rhetoric and >>> > substance looks and >>> > > >> > behaves >>> > > >> > > like former >>> > > >> > > colonial countries. >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > And Kashmiris don't expect that >>> > "Azadi" will be >>> > > >> given >>> > > >> > on a >>> > > >> > > platter. It >>> > > >> > > will be taken through everyday >>> > anti-occupation >>> > > >> > struggle by >>> > > >> > > Kashmiris. >>> > > >> > > It will take time. Kashmiris have >>> > suffered much >>> > > >> but >>> > > >> > there >>> > > >> > > is very >>> > > >> > > little fatigue. As the struggle >>> > intensifies, so >>> > > >> will >>> > > >> > > oppression. But >>> > > >> > > that will be the undoing og the >>> > occupation. >>> > > >> India >>> > > >> > will >>> > > >> > > leave Kashmir >>> > > >> > > because there is no other way. I >>> > only hope it >>> > > >> doesn't >>> > > >> > > happen at the >>> > > >> > > end of a catastrophe that engufls >>> > the entire >>> > > >> > subcontinent. >>> > > >> > > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion >>> > list on media and >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> > > city. >>> > > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > > >> > > with subscribe in the subject >>> > header. >>> > > >> > > To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > >> > > List archive: >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on >>> > media and the >>> > > >> > city. >>> > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >>> > > >> > To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > >> > List archive: >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > Yahoo! >>> > recommends that you upgrade to >>> > > >> > the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. >>> > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >>> > > >> > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on >>> > media and the >>> > > >> > city. >>> > > >> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > > >> > with subscribe in the subject header. >>> > > >> > To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > >> > List archive: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Love Cricket? >>> > Check out live scores, >>> > > >> photos, video highlights and more. Click here >>> > http://cricket.yahoo.com >>> > > >> _________________________________________ >>> > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media >>> > and the >>> > > >> city. >>> > > >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > > >> with subscribe in the subject header. >>> > > >> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > >> List archive: >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > _________________________________________ >>> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >>> > the city. >>> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > with >>> > > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > > > To unsubscribe: >>> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > > > List archive: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -- >>> > > >>> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -- >>> > > >>> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> > > _________________________________________ >>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> > city. >>> > > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > with >>> > > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > > List archive: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Meera >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> > city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> > with subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> > List archive: >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rajen. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Meera > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 20:53:09 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:53:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (Fwd) Rape As An Instrument Of Politics By Vidya Bhushan Rawat Message-ID: <1f9180970907230823h7b171e7cr5614c7b4176404a8@mail.gmail.com> Printer Friendly Version Rape As An Instrument Of Politics By Vidya Bhushan Rawat 22 July, 2009 Countercurrents.org UP Congress is on a high these days. After Congress Chief Rita Bahuguna’s infamous words on rape, the debate started that chief minister Mayawati said the same things to the then chief minister Mr Mulayam Singh Yadav after she visited the Maderasa in Allahabad where some Muslim women’s were raped. Why were the channels running it for the whole day. Was it an effort to douse the flames created by the brahmanical sophistry? Is it just a slip of tongue or the very psychology of our political class which use victim as a tool to score a political point? Well, if you have seen some surveys on these channels, then a majority of Indians have send roses to Rita Bahuguna. I think this is there way of doing Gandhigiri on channels and feeling happy that ‘some one’ had the guts to take their ‘cause’. Justifications are there that Ms Bahuguna meant something else but if you see the whole social history and later on the post independent India’s socio-political climate, then one should not wonder that word rape has become a political instrument and the person who is victimized is tortured more by our actions and deeds. And I call it mindset of a pervert society. A society which is full of fear from openness and which shows its strength through masculinity. Is not it strange that the victim of rape violence is asked to cover her face and live in indignity and hide while the perpetrators roam around with shouting slogans and taking shelter under various taboos. And this is what I call brahmanical mind beautifully exposed by Dr Mulk Raj Anand in his epic novel ‘Untouchable’, as how a priest of temple try to allure a girl Gulabo who is a sweeper in the temple to enter into the sanctum-sanctorum of the temple where she is normally prohibited to enter and then try to molest her. As soon as the girl retaliates and condemn him, the Brahmin priest shouts ‘polluted... polluted... blaming the girl for polluting the temple by entering into its sanctum-sanctorum. The responses of both the UP government and the rival political party are according to their power base. But the way the whole script is being played showed that the even the women politicians play the script largely written according to the code of Manu Dharm Shastra, a code which degraded them and made them an object of ‘pleasure’. No one knows the plight of those women who become victims and in whose name these political dramas are enacted. The script changes and politicians takes over and make it like a Bollywood scene where the aim of the director is not to really show injustice but to give more ‘material’ to our bruised and unsatisfied male egos, something to watch. Our responses have been crude and humiliating and when this rhetoric comes from women then it become more painful. So, it is a country where the laws are made in such a way where the victim is more victimized and those who do it walk with their head high. Just as section 377 was set aside by Delhi High Court, many of the activists, including those claiming to work for social justice, felt that by allowing the homosexual to do things according to their choices would amount to breaking of our social relations and that we are a society based society and individuals do not matter. Why individual should do not matter? How can a society be developed by killing an individual. Dr Ambedkar said about Indian society: ‘The Indian society does not consist of individuals. It consists of innumerable collections of castes, which are exclusive in their life and have no common experience to share and have no bond of sympathy. Given this fact, it is not necessary to argue the point. The existence of caste system is a standing denial of the existence of those ideals of society and of democracy.” Once we understand this feeling of Dr Baba Saheb Ambedkar, we can easily analyse the root cause of our structural problems influenced by the brahmanical social order where for different set of rules and punishment meant for different communities. Therefore a rape committed by a Brahmin would definitely not attract the same punishment as done by some other community. The atrocious laws and social taboos in our societies have turned against individuals and those who challenge to live according to their own life style face the brutality by the society. One should not therefore be amused about our whole marriage system and how it is an event to ‘celebrate’ and show your ‘strength’ and ‘power’ in the village rather than being an entirely private event of a few. And there are communities and traditions when you celebrate the first night ‘victory’. Also, communities have their way defined how to find the next morning whether the girl was a virgin or not. It is therefore not ironical that during a mass marriage ceremony in Madhya Pradesh that the doctors were called to testify the girls after two of them developed labor pain. Now, mass marriage customs are very popular in India as it gives the political parties a license to become the custodians of the community. But as my friend Joane Payton referred why marriage can not be a private affair. Why should the state promote dowry by promoting such practices. There are number of other things as pointed out by some people that some marriages were just replayed to extract the paltry Rs 5,000/-. In fact a former Madhya Pradesh minister once said that people lodge false cases of rapes for compensations. Now, that is the problem with the political parties. They link women’s dignity with compensation. At the same point of time we will have to understand how a woman has to face this violence in our society. Hence, she lives a life of miseries and there are no efforts by the family to revive her. That is why most of the people do not even want to let the incident out in open and file a case in the police. They know that if the ‘truth’ is out the girl would not be able to marry. And hence in many cases the women themselves refuse to accept the charges. Of course, when rape becomes a male chauvinist debate among different constituent then it is shameful. Rather then condemning the act, we the launch counter offensive about why it was not done with others. Rita Bahuguna’s shameful tongue was the same brahmanical wisdom of challenging another woman. May be she wanted to look more sympathizer then Mayawati. Perhaps, she should remember Khairlanji which happened a few years back in Maharastra. Rape will always be a powerful weapon in the armed struggles, communal disturbances, social upheavals as long as women’s virginity and purity are the ‘honor’ in our society. As long as we consider them as a matter of our ‘ijjat’, it will be used as a tool to dishonor them. Whether some boy picks up quarrel with another one in the village, it is the sister who has to face the consequences. The villagers will moan, communities will fight but the girl would be destined to live a life in isolation and misery. She can not come out hence even if she receive hefty compensation, unless our families are properly counseled no rehabilitation can take place and the money would go to the parents who would then find out a person for her and she would be tied for marriages but the stigma of being raped would also be there. There are very few cases where the girl would live a life of honor as she will not be accepted by the larger society. The Supreme Court gave a historic verdict today after hearing a very passionate petition of an orphan girl who was raped by a warden in the Nari Niketan in Chandigarh. This girl is mentally challenged with an age of 19-20 years of age with an IQ of 9 year old. She became pregnant and she does not want to terminate her pregnancy now. It said that the girl has a right to keep her baby. Let us not go into what is right and wrong. Important point is that this girl’s desire to live her life with dignity must be appreciated. The problem is many times, to save them from an adverse verdict, the lawyers advice the alleged rapist to ‘marry’ the girl and withdraw charges of rape. Law has never been reformative and any person who is different from others, find it difficult to get a good lawyer to present her case. How can the court grant permission to alleged rapist to marry the girl. It is because of the social taboos. Fact is that India may not be officially a Hindu Rastra but the laws of Manu are very powerful in our society and they prevail over a secular constitution. Ofcourse, Manu’s Islamic cousins are not left behind. There are hundreds of Imranas and Mukhtar Mais who face these indignities. And what does Panchayats do, which many of our friends appreciate so much in the name of ‘golden’ culture? These Panchayat do not listen to the victim. They victimize them further. Imrana was asked to marry her ‘rapist’ father in law and call her husband as son while Mukhtar Mai was ordered rape by the ‘Jirga’in Pakistan. One need courage and patience of a Mukhtar Mai to face the law which is against her at every step. Therefore most of the women live in indignities as the psychology of rape is just not to kill the girl but to make her virtually a living dead where you are killed many time every time when people pour you with different questions and discuss about your fate. It also creates a psychology of indignity and guilt around her and her family. Laws have never been useful at all and politicians more dangerous than ever. One can find how many time they went to help Imrana. A typical response would be ‘either it is a community matter or ‘we have not read about it or heard it’. The only answer against such heinous crime is to fight against it and not feel guilty and humiliated. And one woman who challenged it and became an icon was Phoolan Devi. Educated upper castes called her ‘dacoit’, but none ever came forward to encourage her live a life of dignity after she was raped and molested by the Thakurs in rural Kanpur Dehat region. She did not accept the defeat. She did not lead a life in miseries. She decided to avenge it. Many people might not justify what she did and none can justify those violent acts yet Phoolan revolt against the brahmanical system is an example that rather then feeling shame of their misdeeds, it is time to pay back with interest. She did not ask for any brutality or rape. She denied being part of any murder of people in Behmai yet she lived like queen. Whether you call it larger then life image or not, but Phoolan never believed in submitting herself to the fancies of these upper caste thugs. She became a legend in her life time who lived life with dignity and self respect. But her legendary status was used by political class for their own reasons. She was converted into a docile homely woman who is very caring and very epitome of ‘Bhartiya naari’ i.e. Indian womanhood. She would tie Rakhi to many of these politicians who became her brothers and used her for political purposes. She got married and entered to parliament. Her status was used by the ambitious political class. A strong woman who fought against brahmanical patriarchy was therefore merged in it by the corrupt political class. Politicians will thrive. The victim and their families will live life of marginalization. For a few days the media will make big stories and politicians know it well. Nothing will happen to them. Their ‘pativrata’ wives will not come for the rescue of bartered woman. They will stand by their corrupt husbands and relatives. That is what brahmanical value system tells us that nothing is bigger than blood relations…’ jis desh jaati main janm liya balidan usee per ho jawaen, which means you must sacrifice your self for your region and caste and defend it at any cost. At the end of the day even if we get out of the political debate of Rita Bahuguna and Mayawati, it is important who is good or bad, just find out who are the people facing charges of rapes in various jails of the country. Who are the victims? May be Rita Bahuguna can find the answer. Many of the shudra critique of Bahujan theory suggest that the violence perpetrated on Dalits are done by the shudras. They ignore the fact that Manusmriti was not made by the shudras. They forget that brahmanical violence may not be physical but more institutional and through knowledge. Rita Bahuguna has added Joshi in her status and her only quality to become president of Uttar-Pradesh Congress was her being a Brahmin. Just by having a Dalit cook at house does not resolve the crisis as she said. What she said was not an outburst but a continuous assumption of our patriarchical political thought that does not want to address the root cause but use the incident for political purposes. A counter social cultural revolution of Dalits-bahujan is the only alternative to brahmanical polity of India in which women are inherent partner in the movement otherwise, rape and molestation of women will always be a tool to not only spread terror among the marginalized sections of society but also used by the very exploiters who use it as a political weapon. Unfortunately, it is the bankruptcy of our political parties that they think to revive their political fortune on an incident which is a shame and need a sensitive approach to deal with. www.manukhsi.blogspot.com -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From iram at sarai.net Thu Jul 23 21:26:10 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:26:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dastan-i- Amir Hamza: The superiority of orality over the written word Message-ID: <4A68881A.9010809@sarai.net> Legendary Urdu critic and the inspiration behind the recent performances of Dastangoi, Shamsur Rahman Faruqi, will speak on Dastans. Topic of discussion will be - * Dastan-i- Amir Hamza: The superiority of orality over the written word At Sahitya Academy On Friday, 24th of July, 5 pm. * S R Faruqi, apart from pioneering works of scholarship and classical urdu poetics, early urdu literary culture and the urdu modernist movement, is one of the few people in the world to possess the entire 46 volume Hamza cycle and is the author of a three volume study on the Dastan tradition in Urdu. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Jul 23 21:22:40 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Dastan-i- Amir Hamza: The superiority of orality over the written word Message-ID: <762509.55365.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Iram, This is a treat not to be missed.Can someone please record this and upload it somewhere?I will be much obliged. Thanks Rahul --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Iram Ghufran wrote: > From: Iram Ghufran > Subject: [Reader-list] Dastan-i- Amir Hamza: The superiority of orality over the written word > To: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 9:26 PM > Legendary Urdu critic and the > inspiration behind the recent performances > of Dastangoi, Shamsur Rahman Faruqi, will speak on > Dastans. > > Topic of discussion will be - > * > Dastan-i- Amir Hamza: The superiority of orality over the > written word > > At Sahitya Academy > > On Friday, 24th of July, 5 pm. > * > > S R Faruqi, apart from pioneering works of scholarship and > classical > urdu poetics, early urdu literary culture and the urdu > modernist > movement,  is one of the few people in the world to > possess the entire > 46 volume Hamza cycle and is the author of a three volume > study on the > Dastan tradition in Urdu. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sarang_shidore at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 03:20:28 2009 From: sarang_shidore at yahoo.com (Sarang Shidore) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] ** Iraq moves to sharply restrict US occupation forces (+ my 2 dinars) ** Message-ID: <978769.8111.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Many have wondered about the nature of the relationship between the Shia Islamist government in Iraq and the occupying US government from the point the first Iraqi elections were held (under great pressure from Ayatollah Sistani). Was it (and is it) a simple master-puppet relationship as it has been alleged? Or is it something more complex? My sense is that after being forced by Sistani's agitational tactics to abandon plans to create a non-democratic authoritarian government in Baghdad run by Pentagon's favorite strongman Iyad Alawi, the Shia Islamists (i.e the alliance of the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council and Nouri Maliki's Da'awa party) and Washington cut a deal. On its part the Shia Islamists agreed to have the American army complete hegemony over all military/defense/foreign affairs areas in return for primacy in civil and religious law of the new Iraq. In this sense, Iraq emerged as an American colony with some internal autonomy. However, the Sunni tribes in western Iraq never accepted this arrangement. Implacably hostile to the US occupation, they launched a deadly insurgency against the occupation army. Meanwhile in the south, the Moqtada Sadr faction of the Shia Islamist movement also rejected the de-facto deal and launched its own (less lethal) insurgency, primarily against the British army which had seized the south in 2003. The end result was four and a half thousand American and a couple of hundred British dead. By early 2007 it was clear that the American army was losing the war in Iraq. The casualties were heavy and mounting, and no amount of lethal aerial bombardment and mass arrests of young Iraqis and their subsequent brutal torture at Abu Ghraib was succeeding. Bush had become deeply popular as a result of the war, and the international isolation of the United States was reaching a perilous state. This is when the Bush team adopted a two-faced strategy. At home they sold the idea of a major troop surge that would destroy the insurgents by purely military means. However, in Iraq, they opened the first serious negotations with the Sunni militant leaders (most of whom were Islamist-oriented Iraqi nationalists and not "Talibanic" Wahhabi fundamentalists, contrary to the claims by Washington.) The negotiations were conducted in secret and they led to a deal in which the Americans agreed to put all insurgents on their payroll (the so-called Awakening Councils that suddenly and mysteriously formed allegedly disgusted at the fanaticism of Al-Qaida). Probably much larger sums of money were paid off to the Sunni leaders. There was also a secret deal with the Sadrists, which resulted in Moqtada Sadr announcing a 6-month truce in August 2007 (which has since been repeatedly extended). The Shia government, which had also begun to assert itself with covert Iranian support, also insisted on a deal for the foreign occupation armies to leave Iraq entirely by December 2011. Subsequent to that, no US combat forces or permanent or temporary military bases are supposed to exist in Iraq (except small contingents needed to guard US diplomats). The last months of the Bush administration were focused on signing this deal, a major climbdown by the US government. Since Obama has come to power, the tussle between Baghdad and Washington seems to be intensifying, even as Iran again comes under the cross-hairs of a still-aggressive Washington under Obama. The rubber will meet the road next year, when it will become clear whether the commitment America has made to fully pull out of Iraq is real or just a stalling tactic which Barack Obama has no intention of honoring. Sarang ----- Iraq Restricts U.S. Forces American Officials See Link Between Limits, Spate of Attacks By Ernesto Londoño and Karen DeYoung Washington Post Foreign Service Saturday, July 18, 2009 BAGHDAD, July 17 -- The Iraqi government has moved to sharply restrict the movement and activities of U.S. forces in a new reading of a six-month-old U.S.-Iraqi security agreement that has startled American commanders and raised concerns about the safety of their troops. In a curt missive issued by the Baghdad Operations Command on July 2 -- the day after Iraqis celebrated the withdrawal of U.S. troops to bases outside city centers -- Iraq's top commanders told their U.S. counterparts to "stop all joint patrols" in Baghdad. It said U.S. resupply convoys could travel only at night and ordered the Americans to "notify us immediately of any violations of the agreement." The strict application of the agreement coincides with what U.S. military officials in Washington say has been an escalation of attacks against their forces by Iranian-backed Shiite extremist groups, to which they have been unable to fully respond. If extremists realize "some of the limitations that we have, that's a vulnerability they could use against us," a senior U.S. military intelligence official said. "The fact is that some of these are very politically sensitive targets" thought to be close to the Shiite-dominated Iraqi government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. The new guidelines are a reflection of rising tensions between the two governments. Iraqi leaders increasingly see the agreement as an opportunity to show their citizens that they are now unequivocally in charge and that their dependence on the U.S. military is minimal and waning. The June 30 deadline for moving U.S. troops out of Iraqi towns and cities was the first of three milestones under the agreement. The U.S. military is to decrease its troop levels from 130,000 to 50,000 by August of next year. U.S. commanders have described the pullout from cities as a transition from combat to stability operations. But they have kept several combat battalions assigned to urban areas and hoped those troops would remain deeply engaged in training Iraqi security forces, meeting with paid informants, attending local council meetings and supervising U.S.-funded civic and reconstruction projects. The Americans have been taken aback by the new restrictions on their activities. The Iraqi order runs "contrary to the spirit and practice of our last several months of operations," Maj. Gen. Daniel P. Bolger, commander of the Baghdad division, wrote in an e-mail obtained by The Washington Post. "Maybe something was 'lost in translation,' " Bolger wrote. "We are not going to hide our support role in the city. I'm sorry the Iraqi politicians lied/dissembled/spun, but we are not invisible nor should we be." He said U.S. troops intend to engage in combat operations in urban areas to avert or respond to threats, with or without help from the Iraqis. "This is a broad right and it demands that we patrol, raid and secure routes as necessary to keep our forces safe," he wrote. "We'll do that, preferably partnered." U.S. commanders have not publicly described in detail how they interpret the agreement's vaguely worded provision that gives them the right to self-defense. The issue has bedeviled them because commanders are concerned that responding quickly and forcefully to threats could embarrass the Iraqi government and prompt allegations of agreement violations. A spate of high-casualty suicide bombings in Shiite neighborhoods, attributed to al-Qaeda in Iraq and related Sunni insurgent groups, has overshadowed the increase of attacks by Iran-backed Shiite extremists, U.S. official say. Officials agreed to discuss relations with the Iraqi government and military, and Iranian support for the extremists, only on the condition of anonymity because those issues involve security, diplomacy and intelligence. The three primary groups -- Asaib al-Haq, Khataib Hezbollah and the Promised Day Brigades -- emerged from the "special groups" of the Jaish al-Mahdi (JAM) militia of radical Iraqi Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, which terrorized Baghdad and southern Iraq beginning in 2006. All receive training, funding and direction from Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps Quds Force. "One of the things we still have to find out, as we pull out from the cities, is how much effectiveness we're going to have against some of these particular target sets," the military intelligence official said. "That's one of the very sensitive parts of this whole story." As U.S. forces tried to pursue the alleged leaders of the groups and planned missions against them, their efforts were hindered by the complicated warrant process and other Iraqi delays, officials said. Last month, U.S. commanders acquiesced to an Iraqi government request to release one of their most high-profile detainees, Laith Khazali. He was arrested in March 2007 with his brother, Qais, who is thought to be the senior operational leader of Asaib al-Haq. The United States thinks they were responsible for the deaths of five American soldiers in Karbala that year. Maliki has occasionally criticized interference by Shiite Iran's Islamic government in Iraqi affairs. But he has also maintained close ties to Iran and has played down U.S. insistence that Iran is deeply involved, through the Quds Force, in training and controlling the Iraqi Shiite extremists. U.S. intelligence has seen "no discernible increase in Tehran's support to Shia extremists in recent months," and the attack level is still low compared with previous years, U.S. counterterrorism official said. But senior military commanders maintained that Iran still supports the Shiite militias, and that their attacks now focus almost exclusively on U.S. forces. After a brief lull, the attacks have continued this month, including a rocket strike on a U.S. base in Basra on Thursday night that killed three soldiers. The acrimony that has marked the transition period has sowed resentment, according to several U.S. soldiers, who said the confidence expressed by Iraqi leaders does not match their competence. "Our [Iraqi] partners burn our fuel, drive roads cleared by our Engineers, live in bases built with our money, operate vehicles fixed with our parts, eat food paid for by our contracts, watch our [surveillance] video feeds, serve citizens with our [funds], and benefit from our air cover," Bolger noted in the e-mail. A spokesman for Bolger would not say whether the U.S. military considers the Iraqi order on July 2 valid. Since it was issued, it has been amended to make a few exemptions. But the guidelines remain far more restrictive than the Americans had hoped, U.S. military officials said. Brig. Gen. Heidi Brown, the commander overseeing the logistical aspects of the withdrawal, said Iraqi and U.S. commanders have had fruitful discussions in recent days about the issue. "It's been an interesting time, and I think we've sorted out any misunderstandings that were there initially," she said in an interview Friday. One U.S. military official here said both Iraqi and American leaders on the ground remain confused about the guidelines. The official said he worries that the lack of clarity could trigger stalemates and confrontations between Iraqis and Americans. "We still lack a common understanding and way forward at all levels regarding those types of situations," he said, referring to self-defense protocols and the type of missions that Americans cannot conduct unilaterally. In recent days, he said, senior U.S. commanders have lowered their expectations. "I think our commanders are starting to back off the notion that we will continue to execute combined operations whether the Iraqi army welcomes us with open arms or not," the U.S. commander said. "However, we are still very interested in and concerned about our ability to quickly and effectively act in response to terrorist threats" against U.S. forces. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 22:57:03 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:57:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?President_Patil_meets_tea_vendor_w?= =?windows-1252?q?ho=92s_also_an_author?= Message-ID: <6353c690907231027n5c291f68nc8aa043b584b955c@mail.gmail.com> President Patil meets tea vendor who’s also an authorJuly 23rd, 2009 - 7:53 pm ICT by IANS New Delhi, July 23 (IANS) A tea vendor with a literary passion, Laxman Rao is the author and publisher of more than 15 books, all in Hindi. On Thursday, when he was invited to meet President Pratibha Patil at Rashtrapati Bhavan, she was curious to know why Rao, a Maharashtrian, prefers to write in Hindi than in his mother tongue. “Marathi is my mother tongue, but Hindi is my national language. That’s why I prefer to write in Hindi,” replied Rao. Rao has been writing for over two decades, but his literary pursuit has no financial aim. “I have not really made much money from my books. But writing is something I enjoy,” he said. >From political satires to novels, Rao has a range of books on different genres under his belt. He sells tea by day near ITO crossing (income tax office) - in fact, on the pavement right opposite Hindi Bhavan - and churns out his literary works at night. However, it has not been easy for Rao to find someone who would publish his books. Refusing to give up, he therefore publishes his own books under the banner ‘Bharatiya Sahitya Kala Prakashan’. On Thursday, the president invited him along with his family to Rashtrapati Bhavan - a rare honour the 55-year-old says he will not forget for the rest of his life. “It was a great experience. I was overwhelmed by the fact that the president had invited me and given me such a great honour. Since she also invited my family, I went there with my wife and two children,” Rao said. Talking about their interaction, Rao told IANS: “She appreciated my work, saying that I am a brilliant writer and that my work was excellent”. He also presented copies of his books to the president. “I sell my books in schools and colleges everyday. But the love for Hindi which is our national language has gone down among students,” he said. Rao is now working on his next novel, “Abhivyakti” which is based on social causes. “My last book, ‘Ram Das’ sold 222 copies. Because of the big demand I am going to publish it again,” he said. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 09:27:10 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:27:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where are the Separatists NOW ????? Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907232057w27c56f15sd1099899678ec210@mail.gmail.com> Terrorists gun down 3-year-old boy, father in Shopian Srinagar: A three-year-old boy and his father were shot dead by suspected terrorists in a south Kashmir village, police said on Thursday. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has condemned the murder and challenged the separatists' silence over it. The incident occurred on Wednesday night in south Kashmir's Shopian district that has been on the boil since May 30 after the rape and murder of two women initially alleged to have been done by security forces. A police spokesman said terrorists barged into the house of Mohammed Aslam Awan, 30, and sprayed bullets from automatic weapons at him and his son. "Awan and his son Arif died instantly," the police spokesman said. He said the bodies were shifted to hospital for autopsy. Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah condemned the killings, challenging the separatist leaders on their silence over the gruesome father-son murder. Check out the details @ http://ibnlive.in.com/news/terrorists-gun-down-3yearold-boy-father-in-shopian/97774-3.html From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 10:12:08 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:12:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [vikalp] Extension of last date for CMCS Early Career Film Fellowship In-Reply-To: <23a2fd5a0907230058i2ce380cbj77721e61b78859c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <23a2fd5a0907230058i2ce380cbj77721e61b78859c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Apologies for crossposting: please forward to your lists and to interested friends The Centre for Media and Cultural Studies (www.cmcs.tiss.edu < http://www.cmcs.tiss.edu/>), Tata Institute of Social Sciences announces *an extension of the last date* for fellowship for film-makers at an early stage of their career *from July 25 to * *August 5, 2009. * The fellowship is designed to provide the resources and environment for films that are innovative, relevant and contribute to the growing body of documentary and short film work in India. The fellowship consists of: * A stipend of Rs. 15,000 per month for a maximum period of five months. * The provision of in-house HDV equipment including camera and editing facilities. * Reimbursement of actuals of production expenses on the basis of a pre-approved budget. These expenses are expected to be in the region of 1.5 lakhs, depending on the logistics of the specific project. In order to be considered for the fellowship applicants are required to provide: * A detailed curriculum vitae * Up to two non-returnable samples of work on DVD/VCD. * An essay outlining the film proposal in not more than 2000 words. This essay should include: a working title for the film, language, the central theme of the film, approach to the content and narrative style, possible visual segments. * A production schedule with a detailed time frame for: research and script, cinematography, editing to rough cut, editing to final cut, submission of all material. * A budget for other production expenses (e.g. travel, field expenses, payments to other professionals etc.). Please note that the fellowship does not support any infrastructural costs such as setting up of an office, buying of equipment, or per diem costs. * Names and contact details of two referees, preferably from the field of media, whom we will contact for a reference if needed. The fellowship is open to all Indian nationals. An early career filmmaker is defined as someone who has completed her/his media education not more than 5 years ago. In case of applicants without a media degree, they should have made not more than 5 documentary or short films already. Only one fellowship is available based on the quality of applications. Short-listed candidates may have to come for an interview around the end of August 2009. Travel will be reimbursed at the rates of three tier non-AC train fare against valid tickets. All proposals must be submitted as hard copies and signed by the film maker. For any queries please contact: cmcs.fellowships at gmail.com Last date for receipt of applications is August 5, 2009 Terms of the fellowship: o The selected fellow will be paid her/his fellowship amount on a monthly basis and for production expenses in instalments as and when needed. o The footage and final film produced will remain with the Digital Archive of the Centre. However, the fellow might retain a copy of the same, for her/his personal use. The copyright will be held jointly by the fellow and the Centre. The film will be distributed by the Centre as a part of its catalogue of productions. The fellow may also distribute the film. The Centre will be cited in the credits as the Producer of the film and the fellow will be cited as Director of the said film. o The fellow is expected to adhere to the time schedule s/he proposes. Any changes should be notified in advance. o There will be a small advisory committee for each project. The committee will facilitate the work of the fellow. S/he is expected to keep in touch with the committee on a regular basis and discuss and share her/his work at every stage (shooting script/ rough edit and final edit). o The fellow is expected to begin work by October 2009 and complete their films by February 2010, but these dates are negotiable. -- _________________________________ Anjali Monteiro, Ph.D., Professor K.P. Jayasankar, Ph.D., Professor Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Deonar, Bombay 400 088, India Phone:+91 22 2552 5661 and +91 22 2552 5660 (Work) Fax: +91 22 25525050 e-mail: cmcs.tiss[AT]gmail.com URL: www.cmcs.tiss.edu http://ourfamily2007.wordpress.com/ http://naata.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Messages in this topic ( 1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages| Files| Photos| Links| Database| Polls| Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [image: Yahoo! Groups] Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity - 2 New Members Visit Your Group New web site? Drive traffic now. Get your business on Yahoo! search. Yahoo! Groups Mental Health Zone Schizophrenia groups Find support Dog Zone on Yahoo! Groups Join a Group all about dogs. . __,_._,___ From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 10:12:37 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:12:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report- 156 In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907232142p6c29570bvf52644719a6f7f88@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, I think there is some error in the computation or that the number of people below BPL or the population of Karnataka is wrongly given as 550 lakhs. 1.65 lakh BPL cards multiplied by 5 persons per family should be around 8.25 lakhs. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All and Taha, > humans endeavour is to work, work with accuracy, but the greed, > status, power make things go wrong in the work done.? Check any data of any > federal state irrespective of the political party ruling that state, one > can > easily know that the BPL list is all wrong, genuine beneficiaries are not > in > the list to get the essential commodities,the caste, faith and regional > affiliation of that reseidential area has had an impact while making the > list of eligible beneficiaries. > > Karnataka has 1.65 lakh BPL cards with average of 5 individuals as its > family members in each of this cards. The population of karnataka is > appxly, > 550 lakhs, which means every person living in Karnataka is below poverty > line.! Our dear nandu, narayana Murthy, Premji all are poor by this > statisrics.! Ofcourse none of them may have the BPL cards, but census is > mere game with numbers when it is only for pleasing the votebanks.! > > Unless there is political will to have good governance and citizens rise > above the hypocracy of having the cake and eating it too with exclusive > policies, this is bound to happen as human mind works for survival, far > better than any technology.! > > Take the cost of running the system of democratic rule, parliament spends > Rs.26,000/- per minute, I was told by men in media, the president has to be > kept in the Rastrapatni Bhavan at a cost of 6.5 crores, the useless > politicians have to be protected with security at a cost of 550 crores per > annum, with all this wastage of public money and additional waste of > expenditure on "free and fair" elections to elect goons and murderers as > our > elected representatives, do we need democracy at all.? > > But the issue here is freedom , freedom to talk, express, that we have as > we have democratic rule with all its shortcomings.! > > Regards. > > Rajen. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Dear All > > > > Now that UIDC is on the anvil we are told that BPL list is flawed. > > Just as with a introduction of a new technology older technologies are > > discarded so as with Nandan Nilekani assuming office last Thursday and > > with the idea of UIDC gaining some form the perception with respect > > to the efficacy of BPL/AAY and other lists is dwindling. > > > > However old and new are not static terms. They are dynamic. What is > > old now must have new once similarly what is new today will become old > > in not too distant a future. > > > > I would like to think that just as there seems to be a euphoria > > amongst various sections of the industry and some departments of the > > government of India regarding UIDC so as there must have been a lot of > > excitement some sixty years ago when the then government of India must > > have sought to introduce a 'new' scheme to identity all the people > > living Below the poverty line and genuinely contribute to make > > poverty history. > > > > It's another matter that BPL could not cut the mustard. Will it be > > another matter, in another age, maybe sixty years from now when we > > will realize the UIDC too couldn't get it right? > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City/Jaipur/Present-list-of-BPL-families-a-flawed-one-says-report/articleshow/4804814.cms > > > > Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report > > TNN 22 July 2009, 04:26am IST > > > > JAIPUR: The method used for identification of Below Poverty Line (BPL) > > families should be drastically revised in all states and Union > > Territories > > as the present BPL list is a flawed one, observed an expert group > > appointed by the Union rural development ministry here on Tuesday. > > > > At a core group meeting to discuss the issues concerning indicators of > > Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) with special reference to health > > and education in Rajasthan, N C Saxena, former secretary, Planning > > Commission and chairman of the expert group on "Estimation of poverty > > and identification of BPL households in Rural India" said that the > > percentage of people entitled to BPL status should be drastically > > revised upwards to at least 50%, though the calorie norm of 2400 would > > demand this figure to be 80%. > > > > According to the monthly bulletin of the food ministry, there are more > > than 10.5 crore BPL/AAY cards in the country, which would account for > > roughly 53 crore people, said Saxena. This figure is very close to > > what his group is recommending. According to Saxena, a gross error of > > exclusion and inclusion has crept into the BPL list because of "flawed > > methodology" followed in the past. Multiple lists created confusion > > and also lead to administrative corruption. "One Panchayat one list" > > should be goal for the government, he observed. > > > > The meeting was attended by senior officials of state, planning > > department, representatives of UN bodies, experts and researchers. The > > meeting was chaired by additional chief secretary (development) Alka > > Kala. > > > > The identification of BPL families in the state will be done from > > August 2009 to January 2010, over a six month period. In case it is > > delayed beyond January 2010, it would be difficult to get enough staff > > to complete the process as the work for Census 2011 would have begun > > by then, which require huge manpower. > > > > Saxena, while discussing the MDG targets and challenges said that > > national poverty reduction programmes are under the spotlight more > > than ever before. He said that BPL list is of enormous importance to > > Union and state governments as well as the rural population at large. > > The total number of people to be included and the criteria for > > inclusion is central to poverty alleviation. He suggested that > > panchayat-wise number of the poor should be declared by the district > > authorities. > > > > Additional chief secretary Alka Kala emphasised that women empowerment > > and nurturing of children are major concerns in the social service > > sector. The question of maternal mortality rate (MMR) -- which is one > > goal of MDGs with respect to Rajasthan -- is faring badly. She said > > that women's health suffers right from childhood - she is > > malnourished, underweight and anaemic and has not been reached by the > > public health system. > > > > The meeting was attended by Gurjot Kaur, principal secretary, > > planning, Mira Mahrishi, principal secretary, women and child > > development, R K Meena, principal secretary, medical and health > > sciences and senior officials. Reports of three convergence districts, > > prepared by the district collectors of Sawai Madhopur, Barmer and > > Udaipur, were also presented and various indicators were discussed. > > > > Rajasthan UNICEF chief Samuel Muwunganidz and state programme > > coordinator of UNFPA Sunil Thomas Jacob emphasized on improving the > > infrastructure and generating awareness among the local communities to > > enable them to get the benefits of various developmental schemes. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 10:52:03 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:52:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [humanrights-movement:1861] Statement on the NHRC report on the alleged encounter at Batla house In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f9180970907232222o2e883dfl2fdc59a70b2d7297@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Harsh Kapoor Date: Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:57 PM Subject: [humanrights-movement:1861] Statement on the NHRC report on the alleged encounter at Batla house To: humanrights-movement at googlegroups.com http://www.anhadin.net/article84.html Media Release - 23 July 2009 Statement on the NHRC report on the alleged encounter at Batla house On 20th May, the Delhi High Court, acting on a petition filed by the People’s union for democratic rights and Anhad, had asked the National Human rights commission to conduct their own inqury into the alleged Batla House encounter of September 2008 and give a report upon it. This order of the High Court was made after the High Court was shown reports of four independent organisations into the encounter, including the report of PUDR, the Delhi union of journalists, the Jamia Teachers Solidarity group, all of which seriously questioned the version of the Delhi police regarding the encounter. These reports and the petition filed by the PUDR had pointed out several specific problems with the version of the Delhi police. In particular, the following questions were raised about the version of the Delhi police.   1. If these boys were killed in a genuine encounter, how did the 17-year-old boy Sajid have four bullet holes on the top of his head, which could only happen if the boy was made to sit down and shot from above.   2. How is the skin peeled off from Atif’s back? This was clearly visible in the photograph taken before his burial which is annexed to the PUDR petition. Obviously Atif had been tortured before being killed.   3. How are the other blunt injuries on the bodies of the boys explained by the police version of the encounter?   4. If the police knew in advance (as they claimed) that these boys in the flat were the terrorists involved in the Delhi and other bomb blasts, why did Inspector Sharma go in without a bullet proof vest?   5. How could 2 of the boys escape from the flat which had only one exit (two doors next to each other) and from a building which had only one exit? It was expected that in these circumstances, the NHRC, would conduct its own investigation into the matter. The report dated 20th July 2009 of the NHRC given to the High Court on 22nd July, however shows that far from conducting any investigation into the matter, the NHRC has merely relied upon the Police reports for their report. They have not even examined or investigated the above questions which were squarely raised in the PUDR petition on which the High Court order was issued to the NHRC. They have not even examined Saif, the third boy picked up by the police from the flat, nor even any of the witnesses of the Batla house area who had deposed before the People’s Tribunal. They have just swallowed the police version hook, line and sinker. And this is despite the fact that there has been no independant police investigation or even a Magisterial enquiry into the encounter as mandated by the NHRC’s own guidelines. It is extremely unfortunate that the premier Human Rights Body set up to investigate Human Rights violations is becoming a rubber stamp for the police. The same attitude of the NHRC was evident when the Supreme Court asked the NHRC to investigate allegations of Rape and Murder against the Salwa Judum. The NHRC send a team of essentially police officers who spoke mainly to the local police and other officials and gave a white washing report. The time has come to seriously reexamine the manner of appointment of members of the NHRC and its powers. The present system of appointment by a committee of Prime Minister, Home Minister, Speaker and Leader of Opposition etc. is not working satisfactorily. All of them seem to want a toothless and tame body which will not question those in power. Since the NHRC report does not address or answer the disquieting questions raised by the several independent fact finding reports about encounter, it is therefore essential that there be an investigation into the "encounter" by an SIT appointed by the Delhi HIgh Court. Signed by:  Shabnam Hashmi (Anhad)  Moushumi Basu (Secretary, PUDR)  Dr. Anoop Saraya (Jan Hastakshep)  Harsh Mander (Director, Center for Equity Studies)  Sreerekha & Tanvir Fazar (Jamia Teachers Solidarity Group)  Colin Gonsalves (Director, Human Rights Law Network)  Arundhati Roy (Writer)  Kavita Krishnan (CPI ML Liberation)  Kamini Jaiswal (Advocate)  Mehtab Alam (Association for the protection of democratic rights)  Prashant Bhushan (Advocate)  Harsh Dobhal (Human Rights Law network) --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "humanrights movement" group. To post to this group, send email to humanrights-movement at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to humanrights-movement+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/humanrights-movement?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 11:06:54 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:06:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> Message-ID: <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one cause. It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities which could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, why is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there are such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? what does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur and in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in uniform or uniformed men? i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since there were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass execution or gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of using the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how many possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting comfortably inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with such arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not only affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it impossible to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 12:35:19 2009 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:35:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) Message-ID: <13df7c120907240005w467085f9x68df0edefb8b7780@mail.gmail.com> *It has a message for separtists but more importantly for their bleeding heart sympathesizers,some of them are here too....* Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to carry this release in their papers. *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI* Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 email: kpss.kashmir@ gmail.com *Dated: 24.07.2009* *Press Release* *(Separatists silence over Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* In recent months killings of some members of Kashmiri Society erupted violence all over the Valley and was supported by the Separatists organization, through every such act on Kashmiri Society is condemnable. But the way the Separatists Leadership keeps silence over the atrocities done by the militants who obviously belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. There is no “Hartals” no “Demonstrations” over the killings of two persons at Keller, Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows that the Separatist Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this kind of act by the militants. Here, we wish to draw attention of the World Communities that these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early militancy period when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on the name of being the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout the world by them that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master minded by then Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold “Mandir Photo Exhibition - cum - Seminar” in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were we categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and dignified audience – unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not come openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own cadres on the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility will remain biased and don’t expect that the world is going to listen to them sympathetically. Further, we invite the kind attention of European Diplomats and Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve the dispute between the two nations and have access to Separatist Organizations to take a serious note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri Leaders over the innocent killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and in present. KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign Diplomats along with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind and valuable attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist Leadership on such acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the Kashmir who are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State Force(s) but least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their sympathizers. We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the present scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority Pockets so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by un-scrupulous elements and enemies of humanity. *Sanjay K. Tickoo* *President* *+91-9906564741* * * -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From yousufism at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 13:23:33 2009 From: yousufism at gmail.com (M Yousuf) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: <13df7c120907240005w467085f9x68df0edefb8b7780@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120907240005w467085f9x68df0edefb8b7780@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement after almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the promptness now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement issued about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe to find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were from some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be advisable for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and seek Syed Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital jail where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream pro-India politicians. KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar - 190001 email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com Dated : 29.06.2009 PRESS RELEASE SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS Srinagar, 29 June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council of Kashmiri Pandit SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at the meeting deliberated on events surrounding the gang rape and murder of two young women in Shopian. Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and inhuman act allegedly committed by members of the police force who are supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members were visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the Kashmir police officials as has been found in the enquiry. The KPSS also condemns the initial cover-up by local administrative officials in Shopian that led to an incorrect initial assessment of the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly the initial press briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir Range, was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of the SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all these acts of ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and condemned by the Justice Jan Commission. KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for their determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. KPSS further stated that the state government has not carried out full inquiries into other previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar Bahi, etc. where it is still unclear if various criminal acts were committed by security personnel or militants. The SAMITI recalls the failure of State authorities in investigating the horrific acts of rape and brutal murders of the Braroo family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in 1994 in their house at Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were raped in front of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That case was all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the Braroo home knew the culprit but police still did not act. The KPSS is critical of both mainstream and separatist political parties for politicizing some acts of criminality, violence, and human rights abuses while conveniently ignoring other similar cases that too require attention and justice. The Samiti stated that the latest shameful incident has once again put the honor of all Kashmiri women - without cast, creed or religion - at stake as authorities and leaders of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and defend the dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe no Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough against perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such horrific acts in the recent past be it in the hands of security forces or by militants. The credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands that following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be served immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency and all guilty personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law and receive the harshest punishment under the category of the “rarest of rare cases.” The Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people programs by responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest and compel the state government to take stern action against culprits irrespective of their stature in the society or official rank. The SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri citizens that include professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central government organizations, and students to wear “BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS” until the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, shopkeepers, transporters and other public institutions should hoist small black flags until the justice is done. KPSS strongly believes that rapist and killers can never be the masters and protectors of any civilized society. KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section of society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. Sanjay K .Tickoo President, KPSS +91 9906564741 On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, rashneek kher wrote: > *It has a message for separtists but more importantly for their bleeding > heart sympathesizers,some of them are here too....* > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to carry this release in > their papers. > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI* > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > email: kpss.kashmir@ > gmail.com< > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > *Press Release* > > > > *(Separatists silence over Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > In recent months killings of some members of Kashmiri Society > erupted violence all over the Valley and was supported by the Separatists > organization, through every such act on Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > But > the way the Separatists Leadership keeps silence over the atrocities done > by > the militants who obviously belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > There is no “Hartals” no “Demonstrations” over the killings of > two persons at Keller, Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > that > the Separatist Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > kind of act by the militants. > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World Communities that > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early militancy period > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on the name of being > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout the world by them > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master minded by then > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold “Mandir Photo Exhibition - > cum - Seminar” in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > we categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and > dignified audience – unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not come > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own cadres on > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility will > remain biased and don’t expect that the world is going to listen to them > sympathetically. > > Further, we invite the kind attention of European Diplomats and > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve the dispute between the > two nations and have access to Separatist Organizations to take a serious > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri Leaders over the innocent > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and in present. > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign Diplomats along > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind and valuable > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist Leadership on such > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > Kashmir who are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > Force(s) but least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > sympathizers. > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > present scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > Pockets so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > un-scrupulous elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > *President* > > *+91-9906564741* > > * * > > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 13:28:51 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:28:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, and all on readers list, basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in defence of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation protecting the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, accepted with humility or otherwise. Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are still craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic religious overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as oppressing power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent is tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a situation army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border terror does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements and foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach violence, but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence in all faiths. Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to be employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman acts of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera living in Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, thanks to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and in retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power seekers who sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, least bothered about real governance in the state. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one cause. > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities which > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, why > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there are > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? what > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur and > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in uniform > or > uniformed men? > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since there > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass execution or > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of > using > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how many > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting comfortably > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with > such > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not only > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it impossible > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 13:33:46 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:33:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report- 156 In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907232142p6c29570bvf52644719a6f7f88@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907232142p6c29570bvf52644719a6f7f88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907240103u1027535nf9a24e843ed2a0cd@mail.gmail.com> hey, hey, may be the statstics have included the floating population into the cities of the state, who are also deemed poor.! On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Murali V wrote: > Dear Rajen, > I think there is some error in the computation or that the number of people > below BPL or the population of Karnataka is wrongly given as 550 lakhs. 1.65 > lakh BPL cards multiplied by 5 persons per family should be around 8.25 > lakhs. > > Regards, > V Murali > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear All and Taha, >> humans endeavour is to work, work with accuracy, but the greed, >> status, power make things go wrong in the work done.? Check any data of >> any >> federal state irrespective of the political party ruling that state, one >> can >> easily know that the BPL list is all wrong, genuine beneficiaries are not >> in >> the list to get the essential commodities,the caste, faith and regional >> affiliation of that reseidential area has had an impact while making the >> list of eligible beneficiaries. >> >> Karnataka has 1.65 lakh BPL cards with average of 5 individuals as its >> family members in each of this cards. The population of karnataka is >> appxly, >> 550 lakhs, which means every person living in Karnataka is below poverty >> line.! Our dear nandu, narayana Murthy, Premji all are poor by this >> statisrics.! Ofcourse none of them may have the BPL cards, but census is >> mere game with numbers when it is only for pleasing the votebanks.! >> >> Unless there is political will to have good governance and citizens rise >> above the hypocracy of having the cake and eating it too with exclusive >> policies, this is bound to happen as human mind works for survival, far >> better than any technology.! >> >> Take the cost of running the system of democratic rule, parliament spends >> Rs.26,000/- per minute, I was told by men in media, the president has to >> be >> kept in the Rastrapatni Bhavan at a cost of 6.5 crores, the useless >> politicians have to be protected with security at a cost of 550 crores per >> annum, with all this wastage of public money and additional waste of >> expenditure on "free and fair" elections to elect goons and murderers as >> our >> elected representatives, do we need democracy at all.? >> >> But the issue here is freedom , freedom to talk, express, that we have as >> we have democratic rule with all its shortcomings.! >> >> Regards. >> >> Rajen. >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Taha Mehmood >> <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: >> >> > Dear All >> > >> > Now that UIDC is on the anvil we are told that BPL list is flawed. >> > Just as with a introduction of a new technology older technologies are >> > discarded so as with Nandan Nilekani assuming office last Thursday and >> > with the idea of UIDC gaining some form the perception with respect >> > to the efficacy of BPL/AAY and other lists is dwindling. >> > >> > However old and new are not static terms. They are dynamic. What is >> > old now must have new once similarly what is new today will become old >> > in not too distant a future. >> > >> > I would like to think that just as there seems to be a euphoria >> > amongst various sections of the industry and some departments of the >> > government of India regarding UIDC so as there must have been a lot of >> > excitement some sixty years ago when the then government of India must >> > have sought to introduce a 'new' scheme to identity all the people >> > living Below the poverty line and genuinely contribute to make >> > poverty history. >> > >> > It's another matter that BPL could not cut the mustard. Will it be >> > another matter, in another age, maybe sixty years from now when we >> > will realize the UIDC too couldn't get it right? >> > >> > Warm regards >> > >> > Taha >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City/Jaipur/Present-list-of-BPL-families-a-flawed-one-says-report/articleshow/4804814.cms >> > >> > Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report >> > TNN 22 July 2009, 04:26am IST >> > >> > JAIPUR: The method used for identification of Below Poverty Line (BPL) >> > families should be drastically revised in all states and Union >> > Territories >> > as the present BPL list is a flawed one, observed an expert group >> > appointed by the Union rural development ministry here on Tuesday. >> > >> > At a core group meeting to discuss the issues concerning indicators of >> > Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) with special reference to health >> > and education in Rajasthan, N C Saxena, former secretary, Planning >> > Commission and chairman of the expert group on "Estimation of poverty >> > and identification of BPL households in Rural India" said that the >> > percentage of people entitled to BPL status should be drastically >> > revised upwards to at least 50%, though the calorie norm of 2400 would >> > demand this figure to be 80%. >> > >> > According to the monthly bulletin of the food ministry, there are more >> > than 10.5 crore BPL/AAY cards in the country, which would account for >> > roughly 53 crore people, said Saxena. This figure is very close to >> > what his group is recommending. According to Saxena, a gross error of >> > exclusion and inclusion has crept into the BPL list because of "flawed >> > methodology" followed in the past. Multiple lists created confusion >> > and also lead to administrative corruption. "One Panchayat one list" >> > should be goal for the government, he observed. >> > >> > The meeting was attended by senior officials of state, planning >> > department, representatives of UN bodies, experts and researchers. The >> > meeting was chaired by additional chief secretary (development) Alka >> > Kala. >> > >> > The identification of BPL families in the state will be done from >> > August 2009 to January 2010, over a six month period. In case it is >> > delayed beyond January 2010, it would be difficult to get enough staff >> > to complete the process as the work for Census 2011 would have begun >> > by then, which require huge manpower. >> > >> > Saxena, while discussing the MDG targets and challenges said that >> > national poverty reduction programmes are under the spotlight more >> > than ever before. He said that BPL list is of enormous importance to >> > Union and state governments as well as the rural population at large. >> > The total number of people to be included and the criteria for >> > inclusion is central to poverty alleviation. He suggested that >> > panchayat-wise number of the poor should be declared by the district >> > authorities. >> > >> > Additional chief secretary Alka Kala emphasised that women empowerment >> > and nurturing of children are major concerns in the social service >> > sector. The question of maternal mortality rate (MMR) -- which is one >> > goal of MDGs with respect to Rajasthan -- is faring badly. She said >> > that women's health suffers right from childhood - she is >> > malnourished, underweight and anaemic and has not been reached by the >> > public health system. >> > >> > The meeting was attended by Gurjot Kaur, principal secretary, >> > planning, Mira Mahrishi, principal secretary, women and child >> > development, R K Meena, principal secretary, medical and health >> > sciences and senior officials. Reports of three convergence districts, >> > prepared by the district collectors of Sawai Madhopur, Barmer and >> > Udaipur, were also presented and various indicators were discussed. >> > >> > Rajasthan UNICEF chief Samuel Muwunganidz and state programme >> > coordinator of UNFPA Sunil Thomas Jacob emphasized on improving the >> > infrastructure and generating awareness among the local communities to >> > enable them to get the benefits of various developmental schemes. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rajen. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 13:35:53 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:35:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where are the Separatists NOW ????? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907232057w27c56f15sd1099899678ec210@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907232057w27c56f15sd1099899678ec210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907240105p15f86a07i7cfa329bf1087943@mail.gmail.com> May be they want a go ahead from their Begum, Mufti.? On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Terrorists gun down 3-year-old boy, father in Shopian > > > Srinagar: A three-year-old boy and his father were shot dead by > suspected terrorists in a south Kashmir village, police said on > Thursday. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has condemned the murder and > challenged the separatists' silence over it. > > The incident occurred on Wednesday night in south Kashmir's Shopian > district that has been on the boil since May 30 after the rape and > murder of two women initially alleged to have been done by security > forces. > > A police spokesman said terrorists barged into the house of Mohammed > Aslam Awan, 30, and sprayed bullets from automatic weapons at him and > his son. > > "Awan and his son Arif died instantly," the police spokesman said. > > He said the bodies were shifted to hospital for autopsy. > > Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah condemned the killings, > challenging the separatist leaders on their silence over the gruesome > father-son murder. > > Check out the details @ > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/terrorists-gun-down-3yearold-boy-father-in-shopian/97774-3.html > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 14:59:58 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:59:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907240229h645bf14eyd89e8cf528336daa@mail.gmail.com> dear rajen, Yes, i agree that armed forces are humans, therefore utmost care has to be taken from the side of the superiors to differentiate those who are honestly living their lives for their daily bread and those who are creating trouble. this is irrespective of religions, extremism or rebellion (being different but complementing each other) is harboured by people from all political colours and laters when such rebellion gathers more people, state security agencies are used to quell them. this, i am not saying in context kashmir but also in terms of north east: If you go read this article, i hope your ideas about cross border infiltration gets cleared: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Cong--BJP-sought-Black-Widow-help-in-poll--Inquiry/492466 with regards, anupam On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > Dear Anupam, > > and all on readers list, > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in defence > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation protecting > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, accepted > with humility or otherwise. > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are still > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic religious > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as oppressing > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent is > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a situation > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border terror > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements and > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach violence, > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence in > all faiths. > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to be > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman acts > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera living in > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, thanks > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and in > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power seekers who > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, least > bothered about real governance in the state. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > >> I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can >> speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one cause. >> It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities which >> could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim >> possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, >> why >> is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by >> Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there are >> such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? >> what >> does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur >> and >> in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in uniform >> or >> uniformed men? >> >> i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since there >> were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass execution >> or >> gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of >> using >> the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how many >> possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting >> comfortably >> inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with >> such >> arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not only >> affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it >> impossible >> to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such >> activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 15:14:42 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:14:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <341380d00907240229h645bf14eyd89e8cf528336daa@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240229h645bf14eyd89e8cf528336daa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907240244k46a60615l1ed6c371dd7e89c5@mail.gmail.com> Hello, There is also the infiltration of the extremists into armed forces??? V Murali On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:59 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > dear rajen, > > Yes, i agree that armed forces are humans, therefore utmost care has to be > taken from the side of the superiors to differentiate those who are > honestly > living their lives for their daily bread and those who are creating > trouble. > this is irrespective of religions, extremism or rebellion (being different > but complementing each other) is harboured by people from all political > colours and laters when such rebellion gathers more people, state security > agencies are used to quell them. this, i am not saying in context kashmir > but also in terms of north east: > > If you go read this article, i hope your ideas about cross border > infiltration gets cleared: > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Cong--BJP-sought-Black-Widow-help-in-poll--Inquiry/492466 > > with regards, > > anupam > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > wrote: > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > and all on readers list, > > > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in > defence > > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation > protecting > > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, > accepted > > with humility or otherwise. > > > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the > > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are still > > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic religious > > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as oppressing > > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent is > > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a situation > > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border > terror > > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements and > > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach > violence, > > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence in > > all faiths. > > > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to be > > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at > > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman > acts > > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious > > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of > > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera living > in > > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, > thanks > > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and in > > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power seekers > who > > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, > least > > bothered about real governance in the state. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > >> I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can > >> speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one > cause. > >> It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities > which > >> could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > >> possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, > >> why > >> is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by > >> Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there are > >> such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? > >> what > >> does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur > >> and > >> in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in > uniform > >> or > >> uniformed men? > >> > >> i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since there > >> were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass execution > >> or > >> gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of > >> using > >> the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how > many > >> possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting > >> comfortably > >> inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with > >> such > >> arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not only > >> affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it > >> impossible > >> to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such > >> activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 15:17:25 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:17:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajendra, What am I not an exception to? And what does my surname have to do with it? Would really like to know. Also, the army like any other organization is populated by the humane as well as inhumane. It would be utterly naive to suppose otherwise. And when a jawan, trained to destroy an enemy is put into a situation where its not clear who is a friend and who an enemy, he's bound to be a little jumpy. Regards, Meera On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear Anupam, > > and all on readers list, > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in defence > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation protecting > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, > accepted > with humility or otherwise. > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are still > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic religious > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as oppressing > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent is > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a situation > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border terror > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements and > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach > violence, > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence in > all faiths. > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to be > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman acts > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera living > in > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, thanks > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and in > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power seekers > who > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, least > bothered about real governance in the state. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can > > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one > cause. > > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities which > > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, > why > > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by > > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there are > > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? > what > > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur > and > > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in uniform > > or > > uniformed men? > > > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since there > > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass execution > or > > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of > > using > > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how many > > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting > comfortably > > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with > > such > > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not only > > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it > impossible > > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such > > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Meera From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 15:19:45 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:19:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> Well, may be true of inhuman infiltrators of the extremist kind. V Murali On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Meera Rizvi wrote: > Dear Rajendra, > > What am I not an exception to? And what does my surname have to do with it? > Would really like to know. > > Also, the army like any other organization is populated by the humane as > well as inhumane. It would be utterly naive to suppose otherwise. And when > a > jawan, trained to destroy an enemy is put into a situation where its not > clear who is a friend and who an enemy, he's bound to be a little jumpy. > > Regards, > > Meera > > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > and all on readers list, > > > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in defence > > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation > protecting > > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, > > accepted > > with humility or otherwise. > > > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the > > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are still > > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic religious > > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as oppressing > > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent is > > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a situation > > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border > terror > > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements and > > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach > > violence, > > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence in > > all faiths. > > > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to be > > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at > > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman > acts > > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious > > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of > > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera living > > in > > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, > thanks > > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and in > > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power seekers > > who > > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, > least > > bothered about real governance in the state. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can > > > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one > > cause. > > > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities > which > > > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > > > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, > > why > > > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by > > > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there > are > > > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? > > what > > > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur > > and > > > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in > uniform > > > or > > > uniformed men? > > > > > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since > there > > > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass > execution > > or > > > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of > > > using > > > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how > many > > > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting > > comfortably > > > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with > > > such > > > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not > only > > > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it > > impossible > > > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such > > > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Meera > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 15:39:21 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:39:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907240309o13f64c90pb0ee27b035f8d54e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, I appreciate that you use "may be". Even the wolf in sheep's clothing argument doesnt apply in this case because both of these forces at the very basic ground level are working in similar ways. While one extorts money to further the cause (also known as influence), the other extorts information so that the state can politically re-condition people into believing that they are very much a part of india (even if it not reflected in terms of policies for development which in turn becomes security funds) For the extremist, fanatic or whatever adjective that one wants to associate with it, it is mostly the lure of money. In case, if u want to say that they are doing for such and such cause, its hogwash. As a champions of black americans, Malcolm X had said the fight for the land. Security forces, a tired lot of working professionals trained (if we have to sum all the functions and put it together in the context of recent incidents) to kill. (on many occasions, to finish the quota of the bullets, armed personnel in kashmir and north east shoot at birds). I wont be surprised if a stupendous amount of defence spending goes around supplying free-for-all-screw-them-all bullets. A yet another parallel perspective is that these are a bunch of brave men caught in the cross fire of political rivalries. possibly true. so what could stop these political rivals from using the security agencies for their own political vendetta? i wonder. so yes, there is an infiltration of extrmist idealogies, political biases, criminal intent into the armed forces (why? because they are armed and power comes from the gun). it has been happening for ages now. protectors (not all of them may be) are also the destroyers. and in this game of hide and seek, the common, the driver, the passenger, the guide, the locals, sheep and may be a goat, keep struggling, fighting and even dying. -anupam On 7/24/09, Murali V wrote: > Well, may be true of inhuman infiltrators of the extremist kind. > V Murali > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Meera Rizvi > wrote: > > > Dear Rajendra, > > > > What am I not an exception to? And what does my surname have to do with > it? > > Would really like to know. > > > > Also, the army like any other organization is populated by the humane as > > well as inhumane. It would be utterly naive to suppose otherwise. And > when > > a > > jawan, trained to destroy an enemy is put into a situation where its not > > clear who is a friend and who an enemy, he's bound to be a little jumpy. > > > > Regards, > > > > Meera > > > > > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > and all on readers list, > > > > > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in > defence > > > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation > > protecting > > > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, > > > accepted > > > with humility or otherwise. > > > > > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the > > > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are still > > > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic > religious > > > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as > oppressing > > > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent > is > > > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a > situation > > > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border > > terror > > > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements > and > > > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach > > > violence, > > > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence > in > > > all faiths. > > > > > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to > be > > > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at > > > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman > > acts > > > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious > > > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of > > > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera > living > > > in > > > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, > > thanks > > > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and > in > > > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power > seekers > > > who > > > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, > > least > > > bothered about real governance in the state. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rajen. > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty < > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list > can > > > > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one > > > cause. > > > > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities > > which > > > > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > > > > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such > activities, > > > why > > > > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur > by > > > > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there > > are > > > > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and > kashmir? > > > what > > > > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, > manipur > > > and > > > > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in > > uniform > > > > or > > > > uniformed men? > > > > > > > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since > > there > > > > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass > > execution > > > or > > > > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea > of > > > > using > > > > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how > > many > > > > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting > > > comfortably > > > > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down > with > > > > such > > > > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not > > only > > > > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it > > > impossible > > > > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such > > > > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rajen. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Meera > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 24 15:56:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:26:30 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani confident of dispatching unique IDs by next year - 159 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907240326l4feb20c1lbbbe6a336e4d5412@mail.gmail.com> Dear All The age of wonder is ushering into India again. It just takes a moon to pass between the earth and the sun and stay there for four minutes to excite a billion Indians. People will pray, bury their children in the ground, talk, be afraid, marvel, enjoy, take pictures and do what not to experience this moment. However no one seems to be bothered about an eclipse of another kind which will not last just four minutes but perhaps a life time. When the shape and the form of government of India will be hidden behind a moon-like plastic token to be distributed by Nandu and Ram Sevak. If our local myth makers were anything to go by then Nandan Nilekani is going to have us all numbered by this time next year. It is another matter that the survey to verify -we-are-who-we-claim-to-be- will be done shoddily. It is another matter that we are not bothered. Who cares if systematic discrepancies factored in the system of identification? For instance, if UIDAI were to use the existing BPL list then who cares, if the BPL lists are flawed? Who cares? There are bigger and more important tasks to be done, for instance, we have to distribute 1.5 Crores to the Premji's, the Narayanmurthys of this world. Nandan is going to use that magic word called -consensus- to arrive a meta list. In the last fortnight he has met his good friend Thiru Murli S. Deora. We were told that the meeting was a first step towards much stronger collaboration between the Ministry of Petroleum and UIDAI. The issue at hand was this- could it be possible for Min. Petroleum to share the list containing the names and addresses of consumers of liquefied petroleum gas? Are we to believe that all the data entered in lists of consumers of LPG flawless? By carrying out a national verification drive in such a slipshod manner Is the Government of India not allowing the so called, -systemic- faults to come in? That too at the level of inception alone. Will the so called 'terrorists', 'illegal immigrants' not be making sure that their names are entered in a few lists before the Government freezes the entry of any more names? 18 months is what Nandu has given to himself. I'm sure all the PERT/CPM and other mumbo-jumbo from operations research must have been carried out by now. We wait and see... Warm regards Taha http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=1138523 Nilekani confident of dispatching unique IDs by next year Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 , India Nandan Nilekani on Thursday officially took charge as the chairman of the UIDA of India, emphasizing that by next year a unique number to establish identity of Indians might fructify. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 24 16:01:04 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:31:04 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MGRM, Bell ID form venture for smart cards-160 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907240331v20040e71m8d8dbb63bfdce4d@mail.gmail.com> ...while slowly...this look of wonder on other people is making few people smile with glee....:-) http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/21/stories/2009072156161300.htm MGRM, Bell ID form venture for smart cards Special Correspondent KOLKATA: MGRM Net, a player in the e-governance technology segment, has announced a joint venture with Bell ID, a technology-leader in card application and management solutions. The joint venture is expected to address the emerging opportunities in e-governance and identity management. Both partners will equip the proposed 50-50 joint venture with their product IPRs, applications and requisite skills to lead this emerging space. According to MGRM founder KVR Murthy, while MGRM will offer research based integrated e-governance platforms, the Netherlands based Bell ID has experience in managing a portfolio of international customers in key markets. Bell ID Chairman Pat B Curran said the joint venture would explore smart card related opportunities secured by biometric applications. Both partners saw this venture as a significant investment initiative. The joint venture would become operational in the next quarter as soon as it completed the necessary formalities a source said. An operational team is expected to step in as early as next month. Bell ID, which has expertise in managing ID programme in diverse geographies, offers government ID solutions including national ID card schemes and e-passport solutions. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 24 17:36:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:06:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] INDIA-ID CARD PROJECT- 161 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907240506s4e78e703mb83486b750a9d5e0@mail.gmail.com> http://rtv.rtrlondon.co.uk/2009-07-23/193e543b.html 4087-INDIA-ID CARD PROJECT MOD-DATE: 07/23/09 10:57:36 SUBCON-JUL23-4087-INDIA-ID CARD PROJECT SUBCON: STORY 4087 4087-INDIA-ID CARD PROJECT NEW DELHI, INDIA JULY 23, 2009 NATURAL WITH HINDI AND ENGLISH SPEECH DURATION:02:31 SOURCE:ANI INTRO: HEADLINE: Chief of national ID cards authority assumes charge. TV AND WEB RESTRICTIONS~**NONE**~ Nandan Nilekani, the newly designated Chairperson of Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) takes charge as the project head. SHOWS: NEW DELHI, INDIA (JULY 23, 2009) (ANI-ACCESS ALL) 1. EXTERIOR OF THE YOJNA BHAVAN 2. NAME OF THE BUILDING READING 'YOJANA BHAVAN' 3. NAME ON THE WALL READING ' UID AUTHORITY OF INDIA' 4. NANDAN NILEKANI, CHAIRMAN OF UNIQUE IDENTIFICATION AUTHORITY OF INDIA SPEAKING TO THE REPORTERS 5. NANDAN NILEKANI SPEAKING 6. REPORTERS AND CAMERAPERSONS 7. (SOUNDBITE) (Hindi) NANDAN NILEKANI, CHAIRMAN, UNIQUE IDENTIFICATION AUTHORITY OF INDIA (UIAI), SAYING: "We need around one month to design the details. We haven't yet decided about how to accomplish it. But one thing is for sure that we would distribute the numbers rather than cards. Our motive is to give only one number� �one card to one individual and through our national authentication system we will confirm that X person is X. (Q: How will the authentication will be done?) It will take place through online network." 8. NANDAN NILEKANI LEAVING 9. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF PLANNING COMMISSION, MONTEK SINGH ALHUWALIA 10. (SOUNDBITE) (English) MONTEK SINGH AHLUWALIA, DEPUTY CHAIRMAN, PLANNING COMMISSION, SAYING: "This is a basic infrastructure and he (Nilekani) is not focussed on how that will help the programme. He knows that it will definitely help the programme and the managers of the programme should actually use the platform. The interesting thing is that he has promised that within a year to 18 months, he will start issuing IDs. That will be an amazing development of infrastructure of very high quality." 11. NANDAN NILEKANI SITTING 12. NILEKANI SITTING WITH THE REPORTERS STORY: Nandan Nilekani who relinquished as the joint Chairman and Member of the Board of India's IT major Infosys of which he is one of the co-founders, took charge as the Chairman of the Unique Identification Database Authority of India (UIDAI) at New Delhi on Thursday (July 23). UIDAI is an innovative project of the Indian Government whereby every bona-fide citizen will have respective identification. Nilekani also met A. Raja, federal Minister of Communications and Information Technology and sought his support for executing this massive national identification project. He told the reporters that they still need one more month to design the details on the model of the IDs and his main motive will be to provide one card to each Indian citizen. "We need around one month to design the details. We haven't yet decided about how to accomplish it. But one thing is for sure that we would distribute the numbers rather than cards. Our motive is to give only one number� �one card to one individual and through our national authentication system we will confirm that X person is X. (Q: How will the authentication will be done?) It will take place through online network," said Nandan Nilekani, Chairman, Unique Identification Database Authority of India (UIDAI). The 54-year-old IT ace also promised to issue the first set of unique ID card within 12 to 18 months. The Government of India appointed Nandan Nilekani as the Chairman of National Authority for Unique Identity that will function under the Planning Commission with cabinet status assigned to him. Deputy Chairman of Planning Commission, Montek Singh Ahluwalia who was also present on the occasion said that the identification cards would be a high quality development of overall infrastructure. "This is a basic infrastructure and he (Nilekani) is not focussed on how that will help the programme. He knows that it will definitely help the programme and the managers of the programme should actually use the platform. The interesting thing is that he has promised that within a year to 18 months, he will start issuing IDs. That will be an amazing development of infrastructure of very high quality," said Montek Singh Ahluwalia, Deputy Chairman, Planning Commission. In January this year, the Government of India had notified the creation of the National Authority of Unique Identity. The ambitious plan of unique identification had been allocated rupees 100 crore (1 billion) in the interim budget of 2009-10. The unique identification number aims at eliminating the need for multiple identification mechanism prevalent across various government departments and it will ensure that each Indian citizen will carry a permanent identifier from birth to death. RGDS, NNNN From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 24 17:39:18 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:09:18 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani gets cracking from Day 1 in office- 162 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907240509x5259c0b8o95e48b754941f76a@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Economy/Nilekani-gets-cracking-from-Day-1/articleshow/4813445.cms Nilekani gets cracking from Day 1 in office 24 Jul 2009, 1030 hrs IST, ET Bureau NEW DELHI: The government will issue identity numbers instead of cards to Indian residents under its unique identification (UID) programme, “This unique identity number will soon eliminate the need for existing identification cards for opening bank and post office accounts or taking electricity connections,” Mr Nilekani said while taking charge as the first chairman of UIDAI. The identification number, which will primarily help to “authenticate” an individual in the country, will be issued to Indian residents on voluntary basis. Any Indian can get the number by showing a residence proof. This can be used for government and private use, Mr Nilekani said. He said the immediate task of the authority was to put its office in order. The UIDAI chief also introduced Ram Sevak Sharma as the secretary and chief executive officer of the organisation who will assist him in rolling out the programme across the country in phases. The newly set up organisation is looking for talent. “We will look for people both from the government and the private sector. We need people in biometrics and advanced technologies to meet the best global standards,” Mr Nilekani said. “It will take a few weeks to get the team together and examine the strategy to issue the UID numbers. The design of the project will be based on biometric identification to authenticate the identity of the person,” he said. As announced by Union finance minister Pranab Mukherjee in his budget speech, the first set of database for the project will be ready within 12-18 months. Mr Nilekani recently met communications and information technology minister A Raja and Planning Commission deputy chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia to discuss the blueprint of the project. The UID project plans to create unique identification numbers for all Indians by 2011. Currently, India does not have any standard identification card or number to authenticate an individual’s identity. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 24 17:41:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:11:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?India=92s_ID_project_catches_fancy?= =?windows-1252?q?_of_US_lawmakers-_163?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40907240511o566a4420leb89f75e3ec2bedb@mail.gmail.com> http://www.livemint.com/2009/07/23174307/India8217s-ID-project-catch.html?h=B India’s ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers “So they (India) are taking on a humongous scale something that we have been struggling with for 20 years,” John Cornyn, the Republican Senator from Texas, said PTI Washington: With work poised to begin on providing unique identification cards to all Indians, the ambitious project has already caught the attention in the US, with lawmakers asking the government why it could not implement a similar project here. “So they (India) are taking on a humongous scale something that we have been struggling with for 20 years,” John Cornyn, the Republican Senator from Texas, said this week during a Congressional hearing on the country’s employment verification system. Ex-Infosys chairman Nandan Nilekani has taken over as head of an authority that will work on the project of giving unique identification numbers and cards to all citizens. “The predicted cost is £3 billion for 1.2 billion citizens and will replace what right now is 20 different proofs of identity that are available and require in the words of the gentleman who’s been appointed to head up this project a ubiquitous online database, and that will have to be impregnable to protect against loss of information,” Cornyn said. He is also the Co-Chair of the Friends of India Caucus in the Senate. Senator Cornyn went on to ask Lynden Melmed, former chief counsel, US Citizenship and Immigration Services: “Why is it that we’ve been struggling for 20 years to do this, Mr. Melmed? Do you think it’s because we lack the knowledge, or is it a lack of political will?” Testifying before the Immigration, Refugees and Border Security Subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Melmed said it is partly due to lack of technological capabilities and partly due to reluctance on the part of the people to accept it. “I think there are two limitations over the past 20 years. The first is technological. “The capabilities that the government has today are far superior than it had 20 years ago, and even the discussion about the issue of an identification document when I have looked at the Congressional testimony from the 1986 debate surrounding a national ID card, it is a different environment and I think Americans are much more comfortable with the use of identification throughout their lives,” Melmed said. “So I think it’s a mix of both technological developments and social acceptance of the use of technology. I think more recently, however, it’s just a challenge of coordinating employment verification with the other issues related to immigration reform and the recognition that dealing with the workplace with illegal workers in the workplace is inextricably tied to fixing the legal side of the immigration system,” Melmed noted. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 18:11:21 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:11:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <341380d00907240309o13f64c90pb0ee27b035f8d54e@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240309o13f64c90pb0ee27b035f8d54e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907240541p41272dc1h8e40c8b7f1fcd0b1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, as I was reading the novel by Dan Brown, Angels and debils, few thought struck me true, the gist was, in the world that we live, there is day and night, there is evil and good, there is right and wrong, and the black and white when mixed in right proportions, it becomes grey.! The humans being social animals have the sense of whay is right and wrongs, but the temptations to be in power, power corrupts everything that touches it, is way correct, miseries are heaped to stay in power.? Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:39 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Murali, > > I appreciate that you use "may be". Even the wolf in sheep's clothing > argument doesnt apply in this case because both of these forces at the very > basic ground level are working in similar ways. While one extorts money to > further the cause (also known as influence), the other extorts information > so that the state can politically re-condition people into believing that > they are very much a part of india (even if it not reflected in terms of > policies for development which in turn becomes security funds) For the > extremist, fanatic or whatever adjective that one wants to associate with > it, it is mostly the lure of money. In case, if u want to say that they are > doing for such and such cause, its hogwash. As a champions of black > americans, Malcolm X had said the fight for the land. Security forces, a > tired lot of working professionals trained (if we have to sum all the > functions and put it together in the context of recent incidents) to kill. > (on many occasions, to finish the quota of the bullets, armed personnel in > kashmir and north east shoot at birds). I wont be surprised if a stupendous > amount of defence spending goes around supplying > free-for-all-screw-them-all > bullets. > > A yet another parallel perspective is that these are a bunch of brave men > caught in the cross fire of political rivalries. possibly true. so what > could stop these political rivals from using the security agencies for > their > own political vendetta? i wonder. > > so yes, there is an infiltration of extrmist idealogies, political biases, > criminal intent into the armed forces (why? because they are armed and > power > comes from the gun). it has been happening for ages now. protectors (not > all > of them may be) are also the destroyers. and in this game of hide and seek, > the common, the driver, the passenger, the guide, the locals, sheep and may > be a goat, keep struggling, fighting and even dying. > > -anupam > On 7/24/09, Murali V wrote: > > > Well, may be true of inhuman infiltrators of the extremist kind. > > V Murali > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Meera Rizvi > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Rajendra, > > > > > > What am I not an exception to? And what does my surname have to do with > > it? > > > Would really like to know. > > > > > > Also, the army like any other organization is populated by the humane > as > > > well as inhumane. It would be utterly naive to suppose otherwise. And > > when > > > a > > > jawan, trained to destroy an enemy is put into a situation where its > not > > > clear who is a friend and who an enemy, he's bound to be a little > jumpy. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Meera > > > > > > > > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > > > and all on readers list, > > > > > > > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in > > defence > > > > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation > > > protecting > > > > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, > > > > accepted > > > > with humility or otherwise. > > > > > > > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the > > > > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are > still > > > > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic > > religious > > > > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as > > oppressing > > > > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent > > is > > > > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a > > situation > > > > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border > > > terror > > > > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements > > and > > > > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach > > > > violence, > > > > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for > violence > > in > > > > all faiths. > > > > > > > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to > > be > > > > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency > at > > > > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the > inhuman > > > acts > > > > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside > religious > > > > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type > of > > > > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera > > living > > > > in > > > > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, > > > thanks > > > > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and > > in > > > > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power > > seekers > > > > who > > > > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, > > > least > > > > bothered about real governance in the state. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Rajen. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty < > > > c.anupam at gmail.com > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list > > can > > > > > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one > > > > cause. > > > > > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities > > > which > > > > > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > > > > > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such > > activities, > > > > why > > > > > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur > > by > > > > > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it > there > > > are > > > > > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and > > kashmir? > > > > what > > > > > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, > > manipur > > > > and > > > > > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in > > > uniform > > > > > or > > > > > uniformed men? > > > > > > > > > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since > > > there > > > > > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass > > > execution > > > > or > > > > > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea > > of > > > > > using > > > > > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? > how > > > many > > > > > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting > > > > comfortably > > > > > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down > > with > > > > > such > > > > > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not > > > only > > > > > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it > > > > impossible > > > > > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind > such > > > > > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rajen. > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Meera > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 18:16:28 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:16:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report- 156 In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907240103u1027535nf9a24e843ed2a0cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907230331r1bb0221x236d66634852285a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230429k7b28b40v4ae9655077b8b597@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907232142p6c29570bvf52644719a6f7f88@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240103u1027535nf9a24e843ed2a0cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907240546s167c20bcn828fe3ef39b58ec4@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, there was a mistake in my post, after re-reading the news, thanks to TOI, here is the correction, BPL cards in Karnataka are 1.65 crores. Error is regretted, hope the list will reconcile. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > hey, hey, may be the statstics have included the floating population into > the cities of the state, who are also deemed poor.! > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> Dear Rajen, >> I think there is some error in the computation or that the number of >> people below BPL or the population of Karnataka is wrongly given as 550 >> lakhs. 1.65 lakh BPL cards multiplied by 5 persons per family should be >> around 8.25 lakhs. >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear All and Taha, >>> humans endeavour is to work, work with accuracy, but the greed, >>> status, power make things go wrong in the work done.? Check any data of >>> any >>> federal state irrespective of the political party ruling that state, one >>> can >>> easily know that the BPL list is all wrong, genuine beneficiaries are not >>> in >>> the list to get the essential commodities,the caste, faith and regional >>> affiliation of that reseidential area has had an impact while making the >>> list of eligible beneficiaries. >>> >>> Karnataka has 1.65 lakh BPL cards with average of 5 individuals as its >>> family members in each of this cards. The population of karnataka is >>> appxly, >>> 550 lakhs, which means every person living in Karnataka is below poverty >>> line.! Our dear nandu, narayana Murthy, Premji all are poor by this >>> statisrics.! Ofcourse none of them may have the BPL cards, but census is >>> mere game with numbers when it is only for pleasing the votebanks.! >>> >>> Unless there is political will to have good governance and citizens rise >>> above the hypocracy of having the cake and eating it too with exclusive >>> policies, this is bound to happen as human mind works for survival, far >>> better than any technology.! >>> >>> Take the cost of running the system of democratic rule, parliament spends >>> Rs.26,000/- per minute, I was told by men in media, the president has to >>> be >>> kept in the Rastrapatni Bhavan at a cost of 6.5 crores, the useless >>> politicians have to be protected with security at a cost of 550 crores >>> per >>> annum, with all this wastage of public money and additional waste of >>> expenditure on "free and fair" elections to elect goons and murderers as >>> our >>> elected representatives, do we need democracy at all.? >>> >>> But the issue here is freedom , freedom to talk, express, that we have >>> as >>> we have democratic rule with all its shortcomings.! >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> Rajen. >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Taha Mehmood >>> <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: >>> >>> > Dear All >>> > >>> > Now that UIDC is on the anvil we are told that BPL list is flawed. >>> > Just as with a introduction of a new technology older technologies are >>> > discarded so as with Nandan Nilekani assuming office last Thursday and >>> > with the idea of UIDC gaining some form the perception with respect >>> > to the efficacy of BPL/AAY and other lists is dwindling. >>> > >>> > However old and new are not static terms. They are dynamic. What is >>> > old now must have new once similarly what is new today will become old >>> > in not too distant a future. >>> > >>> > I would like to think that just as there seems to be a euphoria >>> > amongst various sections of the industry and some departments of the >>> > government of India regarding UIDC so as there must have been a lot of >>> > excitement some sixty years ago when the then government of India must >>> > have sought to introduce a 'new' scheme to identity all the people >>> > living Below the poverty line and genuinely contribute to make >>> > poverty history. >>> > >>> > It's another matter that BPL could not cut the mustard. Will it be >>> > another matter, in another age, maybe sixty years from now when we >>> > will realize the UIDC too couldn't get it right? >>> > >>> > Warm regards >>> > >>> > Taha >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City/Jaipur/Present-list-of-BPL-families-a-flawed-one-says-report/articleshow/4804814.cms >>> > >>> > Present list of BPL families a flawed one, says report >>> > TNN 22 July 2009, 04:26am IST >>> > >>> > JAIPUR: The method used for identification of Below Poverty Line (BPL) >>> > families should be drastically revised in all states and Union >>> > Territories >>> > as the present BPL list is a flawed one, observed an expert group >>> > appointed by the Union rural development ministry here on Tuesday. >>> > >>> > At a core group meeting to discuss the issues concerning indicators of >>> > Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) with special reference to health >>> > and education in Rajasthan, N C Saxena, former secretary, Planning >>> > Commission and chairman of the expert group on "Estimation of poverty >>> > and identification of BPL households in Rural India" said that the >>> > percentage of people entitled to BPL status should be drastically >>> > revised upwards to at least 50%, though the calorie norm of 2400 would >>> > demand this figure to be 80%. >>> > >>> > According to the monthly bulletin of the food ministry, there are more >>> > than 10.5 crore BPL/AAY cards in the country, which would account for >>> > roughly 53 crore people, said Saxena. This figure is very close to >>> > what his group is recommending. According to Saxena, a gross error of >>> > exclusion and inclusion has crept into the BPL list because of "flawed >>> > methodology" followed in the past. Multiple lists created confusion >>> > and also lead to administrative corruption. "One Panchayat one list" >>> > should be goal for the government, he observed. >>> > >>> > The meeting was attended by senior officials of state, planning >>> > department, representatives of UN bodies, experts and researchers. The >>> > meeting was chaired by additional chief secretary (development) Alka >>> > Kala. >>> > >>> > The identification of BPL families in the state will be done from >>> > August 2009 to January 2010, over a six month period. In case it is >>> > delayed beyond January 2010, it would be difficult to get enough staff >>> > to complete the process as the work for Census 2011 would have begun >>> > by then, which require huge manpower. >>> > >>> > Saxena, while discussing the MDG targets and challenges said that >>> > national poverty reduction programmes are under the spotlight more >>> > than ever before. He said that BPL list is of enormous importance to >>> > Union and state governments as well as the rural population at large. >>> > The total number of people to be included and the criteria for >>> > inclusion is central to poverty alleviation. He suggested that >>> > panchayat-wise number of the poor should be declared by the district >>> > authorities. >>> > >>> > Additional chief secretary Alka Kala emphasised that women empowerment >>> > and nurturing of children are major concerns in the social service >>> > sector. The question of maternal mortality rate (MMR) -- which is one >>> > goal of MDGs with respect to Rajasthan -- is faring badly. She said >>> > that women's health suffers right from childhood - she is >>> > malnourished, underweight and anaemic and has not been reached by the >>> > public health system. >>> > >>> > The meeting was attended by Gurjot Kaur, principal secretary, >>> > planning, Mira Mahrishi, principal secretary, women and child >>> > development, R K Meena, principal secretary, medical and health >>> > sciences and senior officials. Reports of three convergence districts, >>> > prepared by the district collectors of Sawai Madhopur, Barmer and >>> > Udaipur, were also presented and various indicators were discussed. >>> > >>> > Rajasthan UNICEF chief Samuel Muwunganidz and state programme >>> > coordinator of UNFPA Sunil Thomas Jacob emphasized on improving the >>> > infrastructure and generating awareness among the local communities to >>> > enable them to get the benefits of various developmental schemes. >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rajen. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 19:30:54 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:30:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907240541p41272dc1h8e40c8b7f1fcd0b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240309o13f64c90pb0ee27b035f8d54e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240541p41272dc1h8e40c8b7f1fcd0b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907240700r47eb50d0m18cb6356fe99427d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, If we say miseries are heaped together so that one class of people can remain in power, you have to understand what power means to those who selectively pointing out one set of miseries as other channels of negotiation have died down. One has to also understand that because one careless action of a governing body, a whole lot of people become affected thus this willingness to change everyone and everything around them. Personally, i do not understand the discourses on evil or good. but simply there are channels of peace. removal of armed forces would mean one is creating that atmosphere of dialogue (between the genuine stake holders and the authorities). For example, if government chose to deploy armed forces in Mumbai after 26/11, it would have surely checked all the infiltrations/loots/murders but then its not possible because people in general would be suspicious about what authorities are doing in name of security. it is for this very reason, armed forces were not deployed but a more difficult, covert exercise of identifying suspects is going to check the crime scene in the city. is that not possible in case of Kashmir? can the local agencies which are more close to the people, acquainted with their aspirations, behavioral pattern can take care of the menace of terrorism? why does an army/BSF man have to invade the personal space of the people in the name of the security? -anupam On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear Anupam, > > as I was reading the novel by Dan Brown, Angels and debils, few thought > struck me true, the gist was, in the world that we live, there is day and > night, there is evil and good, there is right and wrong, and the black and > white when mixed in right proportions, it becomes grey.! The humans being > social animals have the sense of whay is right and wrongs, but the > temptations to be in power, power corrupts everything that touches it, is > way correct, miseries are heaped to stay in power.? > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:39 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Murali, >> >> I appreciate that you use "may be". Even the wolf in sheep's clothing >> argument doesnt apply in this case because both of these forces at the >> very >> basic ground level are working in similar ways. While one extorts money to >> further the cause (also known as influence), the other extorts information >> so that the state can politically re-condition people into believing that >> they are very much a part of india (even if it not reflected in terms of >> policies for development which in turn becomes security funds) For the >> extremist, fanatic or whatever adjective that one wants to associate with >> it, it is mostly the lure of money. In case, if u want to say that they >> are >> doing for such and such cause, its hogwash. As a champions of black >> americans, Malcolm X had said the fight for the land. Security forces, a >> tired lot of working professionals trained (if we have to sum all the >> functions and put it together in the context of recent incidents) to kill. >> (on many occasions, to finish the quota of the bullets, armed personnel in >> kashmir and north east shoot at birds). I wont be surprised if a >> stupendous >> amount of defence spending goes around supplying >> free-for-all-screw-them-all >> bullets. >> >> A yet another parallel perspective is that these are a bunch of brave men >> caught in the cross fire of political rivalries. possibly true. so what >> could stop these political rivals from using the security agencies for >> their >> own political vendetta? i wonder. >> >> so yes, there is an infiltration of extrmist idealogies, political biases, >> criminal intent into the armed forces (why? because they are armed and >> power >> comes from the gun). it has been happening for ages now. protectors (not >> all >> of them may be) are also the destroyers. and in this game of hide and >> seek, >> the common, the driver, the passenger, the guide, the locals, sheep and >> may >> be a goat, keep struggling, fighting and even dying. >> >> -anupam >> On 7/24/09, Murali V wrote: >> >> > Well, may be true of inhuman infiltrators of the extremist kind. >> > V Murali >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Meera Rizvi >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Rajendra, >> > > >> > > What am I not an exception to? And what does my surname have to do >> with >> > it? >> > > Would really like to know. >> > > >> > > Also, the army like any other organization is populated by the humane >> as >> > > well as inhumane. It would be utterly naive to suppose otherwise. And >> > when >> > > a >> > > jawan, trained to destroy an enemy is put into a situation where its >> not >> > > clear who is a friend and who an enemy, he's bound to be a little >> jumpy. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > Meera >> > > >> > > >> > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Dear Anupam, >> > > > >> > > > and all on readers list, >> > > > >> > > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in >> > defence >> > > > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation >> > > protecting >> > > > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, >> > > > accepted >> > > > with humility or otherwise. >> > > > >> > > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for >> the >> > > > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are >> still >> > > > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic >> > religious >> > > > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as >> > oppressing >> > > > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this >> dissent >> > is >> > > > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a >> > situation >> > > > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border >> > > terror >> > > > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements >> > and >> > > > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach >> > > > violence, >> > > > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for >> violence >> > in >> > > > all faiths. >> > > > >> > > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not >> to >> > be >> > > > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency >> at >> > > > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the >> inhuman >> > > acts >> > > > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside >> religious >> > > > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type >> of >> > > > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera >> > living >> > > > in >> > > > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, >> > > thanks >> > > > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers >> and >> > in >> > > > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power >> > seekers >> > > > who >> > > > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, >> > > least >> > > > bothered about real governance in the state. >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > Rajen. >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty < >> > > c.anupam at gmail.com >> > > > >wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list >> > can >> > > > > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further >> one >> > > > cause. >> > > > > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such >> possibilities >> > > which >> > > > > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim >> > > > > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such >> > activities, >> > > > why >> > > > > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and >> Manipur >> > by >> > > > > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it >> there >> > > are >> > > > > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and >> > kashmir? >> > > > what >> > > > > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, >> > manipur >> > > > and >> > > > > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in >> > > uniform >> > > > > or >> > > > > uniformed men? >> > > > > >> > > > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since >> > > there >> > > > > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass >> > > execution >> > > > or >> > > > > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses >> idea >> > of >> > > > > using >> > > > > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? >> how >> > > many >> > > > > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting >> > > > comfortably >> > > > > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down >> > with >> > > > > such >> > > > > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's >> not >> > > only >> > > > > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it >> > > > impossible >> > > > > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind >> such >> > > > > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. >> > > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Rajen. >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Meera >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 09:53:33 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:53:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MP Assembly passes historic resolution on 'Panun Kashmir' Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907242123w2e4392bbr479bc0b6cfcdee49@mail.gmail.com> MP Assembly passes historic resolution on 'Panun Kashmir' The Madhya Pradesh Assembly passed a resolution unanimously today expressing support to the demand of Union Territory for Kashmiri Pandits in the valley of Kashmir. The resolution was moved by Mr. Umashankar (MLA) and supported by Mr. Deshraj Singh (MLA) and state Parliamentary Affairs Minister Mr. Kailash Vijay Wargi. The resolution was passed at 6:15pm today after an hour long discussion on the subject.. The resolution besides other things demanded that the Government of India should in the meanwhile establish a commission of enquiry to find reasons for the plight of Kashmiri Pandits which includes their exodus from Kashmir. It also demanded that Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) including an economic package be announced for the community. It also demands that a bill to protect temples and shrines of Kashmiri Pandits be introduced with the concurrence of Kashmiri Pandit representatives for which a dialogue should be initiated with 'Panun Kashmir' the representative body of the community. The resolution further demanded that the Government of the country should take all necessary measures to ameliorate the sufferings for the community. When the bill was introduced, discussed and passed in the Madhya Pradesh Assemby; a team of community members was present in the Speaker's Gallery of the Assembly, besides others who were present included Dr. Agnishekhar, Convener, Panun Kashmir and Shri Ashwani Kumar Chrungoo, President, Panun Kashmir. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 10:36:53 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:36:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MP Assembly passes historic resolution on 'Panun Kashmir' In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907242123w2e4392bbr479bc0b6cfcdee49@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907242123w2e4392bbr479bc0b6cfcdee49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907242206k1c671d10i6c0a1d39ebf15b4e@mail.gmail.com> Several Resolutions would be passed, bandhs and strikes conducted, sweet talk in various platforms would be held but nothing would be done. Congress whose chief patron and founder, the Late Jawahar lal Nehru himself a Kashmiri pundit did not attempt to do anything for the pundits, the current patrons of this legacy party would not even touch this issue with a barge pole as it would incur the wrath of the powerful both literally and figuratively, majority in Kashmir, there by their vote bank in the rest of the country. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > MP Assembly passes historic resolution on 'Panun Kashmir' > > > The Madhya Pradesh Assembly passed a resolution unanimously today > expressing support to the demand of Union Territory for Kashmiri > Pandits in the valley of Kashmir. The resolution was moved by Mr. > Umashankar (MLA) and supported by Mr. Deshraj Singh (MLA) and state > Parliamentary Affairs Minister Mr. Kailash Vijay Wargi. The resolution > was passed at 6:15pm today after an hour long discussion on the > subject.. The resolution besides other things demanded that the > Government of India should in the meanwhile establish a commission of > enquiry to find reasons for the plight of Kashmiri Pandits which > includes their exodus from Kashmir. It also demanded that Confidence > Building Measures (CBMs) including an economic package be announced > for the community. It also demands that a bill to protect temples and > shrines of Kashmiri Pandits be introduced with the concurrence of > Kashmiri Pandit representatives for which a dialogue should be > initiated with 'Panun Kashmir' the representative body of the > community. The resolution further demanded that the Government of the > country should take all necessary measures to ameliorate the > sufferings for the community. > > When the bill was introduced, discussed and passed in the Madhya > Pradesh Assemby; a team of community members was present in the > Speaker's Gallery of the Assembly, besides others who were present > included Dr. Agnishekhar, Convener, Panun Kashmir and Shri Ashwani > Kumar Chrungoo, President, Panun Kashmir. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 11:18:53 2009 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:18:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in the last few months. A man was recently murdered, found with a hundred rupee note stuffed into his mouth. None of these merited protests. Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > From: M Yousuf > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 > To: rashneek kher > Cc: reader-list > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > Kashmir) > > It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement > after almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the > promptness now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement > issued about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe > to find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were > from some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be > advisable for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and > seek Syed Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital > jail where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream > pro-India politicians. KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI Sathu Barbar Shah, > Srinagar - 190001 email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com Dated : 29.06.2009 PRESS > RELEASE SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > SAMITI SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS Srinagar, 29 > June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council of Kashmiri Pandit > SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at the meeting deliberated on > events surrounding the gang rape and murder of two young women in > Shopian. Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and > inhuman act allegedly committed by members of the police force who > are supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members were > visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the Kashmir police > officials as has been found in the enquiry. The KPSS also condemns the > initial cover-up by local administrative officials in Shopian that led to an > incorrect initial assessment of the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly > the initial press briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir > Range, was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of the > SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all these acts of > ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and condemned by the Justice Jan > Commission. KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for > their determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. KPSS further > stated that the state government has not carried out full inquiries into other > previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar Bahi, etc. where it is still > unclear if various criminal acts were committed by security personnel or > militants. The SAMITI recalls the failure of State authorities in > investigating the horrific acts of rape and brutal murders of the Braroo > family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in > 1994 in their house at Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were > raped in front of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That > case was all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the > Braroo home knew the culprit but police still did not act. The KPSS is > critical of both mainstream and separatist political parties for politicizing > some acts of criminality, violence, and human rights abuses while conveniently > ignoring other similar cases that too require attention and justice. The > Samiti stated that the latest shameful incident has once again put the honor > of all Kashmiri women - without cast, creed or religion - at stake as > authorities and leaders of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and > defend the dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe > no Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough against > perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such horrific acts in the > recent past be it in the hands of security forces or by militants. The > credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands that > following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be served > immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency and all guilty > personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law and receive the > harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest of rare cases.² The > Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people programs by > responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest and compel the state > government to take stern action against culprits irrespective of their stature > in the society or official rank. The SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri > citizens that include professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central > government organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² > until the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, > shopkeepers, transporters and other public institutions should hoist small > black flags until the justice is done. KPSS strongly believes that rapist and > killers can never be the masters and protectors of any civilized > society. KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section > of society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. Sanjay K > .Tickoo President, KPSS +91 9906564741 On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, > rashneek kher wrote: > *It has a message for separtists > but more importantly for their bleeding > heart sympathesizers,some of them > are here too....* > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to > carry this release in > their papers. > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > SAMITI* > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > email: > kpss.kashmir@ > gmail.com< > > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > *Press Release* > > > > *(Separatists silence over > Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > In recent months killings > of some members of Kashmiri Society > erupted violence all over the Valley and > was supported by the Separatists > organization, through every such act on > Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > But > the way the Separatists Leadership > keeps silence over the atrocities done > by > the militants who obviously > belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > There is no > ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of > two persons at Keller, > Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > that > the Separatist > Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > kind of act by > the militants. > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World > Communities that > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early > militancy period > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on > the name of being > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout > the world by them > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master > minded by then > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - > cum - > Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > we > categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and > > dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not come > > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own cadres on > > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility will > > remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to them > > sympathetically. > > Further, we invite the kind attention of > European Diplomats and > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve > the dispute between the > two nations and have access to Separatist > Organizations to take a serious > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri > Leaders over the innocent > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and > in present. > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign > Diplomats along > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind > and valuable > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist > Leadership on such > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > Kashmir who > are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > Force(s) but > least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > sympathizers. > > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > present > scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > Pockets > so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > un-scrupulous > elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > > *President* > > *+91-9906564741* > > * * > > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ___________________________ > ______________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 11:29:54 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:29:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907242259u7232fa86tac281edde6a4ce74@mail.gmail.com> Sonia , I am actually failing to understand what is the loose end . Has the "jihad" made Kashmiri's forget humanity. Why is it that without finding who the criminal was , and on provocation of separatists , come out on streets with their 'ragda' drama and the same scoiety remains silent when a young woman is being murdered and a 3 year old boy is being murdered by Jihadi and separatists. Humanity is dead in Kashmir ..So sad.... Pawan On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:18 AM, S. Jabbar wrote: > If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by > surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by > protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in the > last few months.  A man was recently murdered,  found with a hundred rupee > note stuffed into his mouth.  None of these merited protests. > > Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > > >> From: M Yousuf >> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 >> To: rashneek kher >> Cc: reader-list >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in >> Kashmir) >> >> It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement >> after > almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the >> promptness > now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement >> issued > about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe >> to > find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were >> from > some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be >> advisable > for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and >> seek Syed > Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital >> jail > where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream >> pro-India > politicians. > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI > Sathu Barbar Shah, >> Srinagar - 190001 > email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com > > Dated : 29.06.2009 > > PRESS >> RELEASE > > SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH >> SAMITI > SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS > > > > Srinagar, 29 >> June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council > of Kashmiri Pandit >> SangarashSamiti held today.-  The participants at > the meeting deliberated on >> events surrounding the gang rape and murder > of two young women in >> Shopian. > Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and >> inhuman > act allegedly committed by members of the police force who >> are > supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members > were >> visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the > Kashmir police >> officials as has been found in the enquiry. > > The KPSS also condemns the >> initial cover-up by local administrative > officials in Shopian that led to an >> incorrect initial assessment of > the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly >> the initial press > briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir >> Range, > was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of > the >> SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all > these acts of >> ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and > condemned by the Justice Jan >> Commission. > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI  hails residents of Shopian for >> their > determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. > > KPSS further >> stated that the state government has not carried out full > inquiries into other >> previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar > Bahi, etc. where it is still >> unclear if various criminal acts were > committed by security personnel or >> militants. The SAMITI recalls the > failure of State authorities in >> investigating the horrific acts of > rape and brutal murders of the Braroo >> family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati > Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in >> 1994 in their house at > Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were >> raped in front > of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That >> case was > all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the >> Braroo > home knew the culprit but police still did not act. > > The KPSS is >> critical of both mainstream and separatist political > parties for politicizing >> some acts of criminality, violence, and human > rights abuses while conveniently >> ignoring other similar cases that too > require attention and justice. The >> Samiti stated that the latest > shameful incident has once again put the honor >> of all Kashmiri women - > without cast, creed or religion - at stake as >> authorities and leaders > of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and >> defend the > dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe >> no > Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough > against >> perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such > horrific acts in the >> recent past be it in the hands of security forces > or by militants. > > The >> credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands > that >> following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be > served >> immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency > and all guilty >> personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law > and receive the >> harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest > of rare cases.² > > The >> Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people > programs by >> responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest > and compel the state >> government to take stern action against culprits > irrespective of their stature >> in the society or official rank. The > SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri >> citizens that include > professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central >> government > organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² >> until > the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, >> shopkeepers, > transporters and other public institutions should hoist small >> black > flags until the justice is done. > > KPSS strongly believes that rapist and >> killers can never be the > masters and protectors of any civilized >> society. > > KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section >> of > society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. > > Sanjay K >> .Tickoo > President, KPSS > +91 9906564741 > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, >> rashneek kher wrote: > >> *It has a message for separtists >> but more importantly for their bleeding >> heart sympathesizers,some of them >> are here too....* >> >>  Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to >> carry this release in >> their papers. >> >> >> *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH >> SAMITI* >> Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 >> email: >> kpss.kashmir@ >> gmail.com< >> >> http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> >> >> >> *Dated: 24.07.2009* >> >> *Press Release* >> >> >> >> *(Separatists silence over >> Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* >> >> >> >>            In recent months killings >> of some members of Kashmiri Society >> erupted violence all over the Valley and >> was supported by the Separatists >> organization, through every such act on >> Kashmiri Society is condemnable. >> But >> the way the Separatists Leadership >> keeps silence over the atrocities done >> by >> the militants who obviously >> belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. >> >>            There is no >> ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of >> two persons at Keller, >> Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows >> that >> the Separatist >> Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this >> kind of act by >> the militants. >> >>            Here, we wish to draw attention of the World >> Communities that >> these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early >> militancy period >> when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on >> the name of being >> the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout >> the world by them >> that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master >> minded by then >> Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. >> >> >> On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - >> cum - >> Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were >> we >> categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and >> >> dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not come >> >> openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own cadres on >> >> the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility will >> >> remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to them >> >> sympathetically. >> >>            Further, we invite the kind attention of >> European Diplomats and >> Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve >> the dispute between the >> two nations and have access to Separatist >> Organizations to take a serious >> note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri >> Leaders over the innocent >> killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and >> in present. >> >>            KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign >> Diplomats along >> with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind >> and valuable >> attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist >> Leadership on such >> acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. >> >> >> It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the >> Kashmir who >> are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State >> Force(s) but >> least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their >> sympathizers. >> >> >> We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the >> present >> scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority >> Pockets >> so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by >> un-scrupulous >> elements and enemies of humanity. >> >> >> >> >> >> *Sanjay K. Tickoo* >> >> >> *President* >> >> *+91-9906564741* >> >> * * >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rashneek Kher >> >> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion >> list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > ___________________________ >> ______________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List >> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 11:45:18 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:45:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote Bank strategy Message-ID: <4eab87870907242315p66c681br8f9a6b800c25daaa@mail.gmail.com> On 10 July, 2009, with the full political patronage of the *CPI(M)*government of West Bengal, and the *Sonia Congress party*, some criminal Muslim elements, let loose organized violence against the Hindus in certain villages / pockets of *Beldanga Sub-Division* of this district. In this savage communal attack more than 12 Hindus were killed and hundreds were grievously injured. No minister from West Bengal went to meet the Hindu victims to give them solace or succour or relief of any kind. Even the most ‘responsible’ *Union Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee who *thought it fit to embrace the Muslim voters of his constituency on 12 July, 2009, never bothered to meet the Hindu victims of Islamic terrorism in *Beldanga Sub-Division.* He seems to be more interested in telling the Muslims of his constituency that he has honoured his commitment to them (*made before the elections*) to open a Branch of the*AMU* in *Murshidabad District. *What can an average Hindu citizen in*Murshidabad District* make of this *dastardly dichotomy* in *approach and policy* of *Pranab Mukherjee*. *Perhaps he treats the Hindu victims of Beldanga Sub-Division as Hindu refugees from Bangladesh and not citizens of India!! By the same token, he treats the unauthorised Muslim infiltrators from Bangladesh as legitimate citizens of India!!!* *Three cheers for deliberately planned, organised and launched anti-Hindu secularism of Sonia Congress and Government of India!* From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 12:02:19 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:02:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deliberately Suppressed News Message-ID: <4eab87870907242332gfb4698akb80300087951909f@mail.gmail.com> The print and electronic English media have conspired together against the innocent Hindus of West Bengal by completely blacking out the news regarding the savage communal attack on the Hindus carried out by the criminal Muslim elements in Murshidabad district on July 10, 2009.* * *More than 12 Hindus have been killed and hundreds have been injured including 10 Policemen and one DSP rank Police Officer in Murshidabad District. Two village markets and hundreds of Hindu houses and Hindu shops were looted and burnt.Firing between the Police and Muslim rioters were going on for more than 48 hours till July 12’ 09. BSF and CRPF men have been deployed to help the local police and the RAF. Our English Newspapers and TV Channels have completely suppressed this news. All of them seem to be more concerned about the fight that is now going on between the Muslim Chinese and the non-Muslim Han Chinese in Urumqi, the Capital of Western Xinjiang region, in China.* * * *Most important fact that should be noted is that Murshidabad is a Muslim majority district bordering Bangladesh and unauthorized infiltration of Muslims — the favourite vote banks of CPI(M) and Sonia Congress parties — has been rampant from 1980. The Muslims were in minority in Murshidabad District on August 15, 1947. Today they are in absolute majority. * * * *All the trouble started in Jhaubona High School in Jhaubonavillage coming under Nawda police station in Beldanga Sub Division in Murshidabaddistrict. Out of a total of 1000 students in this school, about 50% are Muslim students. For long the Muslim students have been demanding to offer Friday Namazinside the school. BUT SCHOOL MANAGEMENT AND THE HINDU STUDENTS RESISTED IT APPREHENDING THAT IT WILL CREATE A VIRTUAL MOSQUE INSIDE THE SCHOOL.Consequently, the furious Muslim students made objection against Saraswati Puja in the school and the school management has been compelled to stop Saraswati puja last year in the school. Suddenly in a fit of passion, all the Muslim students in this school unilaterally planned to offer Friday Namaz on July 10, 2009 by force inside the school without any permission from the Head Master or the School Management. Hindu students protested against the move to convert the school into a make-shift mosque. As a result altercation started at 12 noon on July 10, 2009 between the two groups of students. * * * *Muslims were totally prepared for an armed rioting. Through cell phone they spread the false message that Hindu students attacked Muslim students in the school. Within 10-15 minutes, thousands of Muslims led by the students of nearbyTrimohini Madrasa rushed to the school. They attacked the Hindu students in the school. They also indulged in acts of violence in the big village market of Trimohini.Many Hindu shops in the Trimohini market were burnt and looted. Further the armed Muslim rioters attacked the three Hindu villages of Jhaubona, Trimohini andDarapara. Many Hindu houses were burnt and looted in these three villages.According to reliable reports, in one house 4 Hindus died in the fire, including a father and his daughter who were burnt alive. In all, more than 12 Hindus have been killed and more than 150 Hindus have been seriously injured. The injured persons were admitted to Baharampur and Amtala hospitals. I have disturbing news to the effect that all the people living in the Hindu villages coming under Nawda and Hariharpara Police Stations are keeping themselves awake through out the night. They are scared of a possible Muslim attack upon their villages.* From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 16:30:51 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:30:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deliberately Suppressed News In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907242332gfb4698akb80300087951909f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870907242332gfb4698akb80300087951909f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907250400m77feeb5awe07ec891c58c2b80@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, Kindly attribute the source of information. Especially, this bit: BUT SCHOOL MANAGEMENT AND THE HINDU STUDENTS RESISTED IT APPREHENDING THAT IT WILL CREATE A VIRTUAL MOSQUE INSIDE THE SCHOOL.Consequently, the furious Muslim students made objection against Saraswati Puja in the school and the school management has been compelled to stop Saraswati puja last year in the school. with regards anupam On 7/25/09, Murali V wrote: > > The print and electronic English media have conspired together against the > innocent Hindus of West Bengal by completely blacking out the news > regarding > the savage communal attack on the Hindus carried out by the criminal Muslim > elements in Murshidabad district on July 10, 2009.* > * > *More than 12 Hindus have been killed and hundreds have been injured > including 10 Policemen and one DSP rank Police Officer in Murshidabad > District. Two village markets and hundreds of Hindu houses and Hindu shops > were looted and burnt.Firing between the Police and Muslim rioters were > going on for more than 48 hours till July 12’ 09. BSF and CRPF men have > been > deployed to help the local police and the RAF. Our English Newspapers and > TV Channels have completely suppressed this news. All of them seem to be > more concerned about the fight that is now going on between the Muslim > Chinese and the non-Muslim Han Chinese in Urumqi, the Capital of Western > Xinjiang region, in China.* > * > * > *Most important fact that should be noted is that Murshidabad is a Muslim > majority district bordering Bangladesh and unauthorized infiltration of > Muslims — the favourite vote banks of CPI(M) and Sonia Congress parties — > has been rampant from 1980. The Muslims were in minority in Murshidabad > District on August 15, 1947. Today they are in absolute majority. * > * > * > *All the trouble started in Jhaubona High School in Jhaubonavillage coming > under Nawda police station in Beldanga Sub Division in Murshidabaddistrict. > Out > of a total of 1000 students in this school, about 50% are Muslim students. > For > long the Muslim students have been demanding to offer Friday Namazinside > the > school. BUT SCHOOL MANAGEMENT AND THE HINDU STUDENTS RESISTED IT > APPREHENDING THAT IT WILL CREATE A VIRTUAL MOSQUE INSIDE THE > SCHOOL.Consequently, > the furious Muslim students made objection against Saraswati Puja in the > school and the school management has been compelled to stop Saraswati puja > last year in the school. Suddenly in a fit of passion, all the Muslim > students in this school unilaterally planned to offer Friday Namaz on July > 10, 2009 by force inside the school without any permission from the Head > Master or the School Management. Hindu students protested against the move > to convert the school into a make-shift mosque. As a result altercation > started at 12 noon on July 10, 2009 between the two groups of students. > * > * > * > *Muslims were totally prepared for an armed rioting. Through cell phone > they > spread the false message that Hindu students attacked Muslim students in > the > school. Within 10-15 minutes, thousands of Muslims led by the students of > nearbyTrimohini Madrasa rushed to the school. They attacked the Hindu > students in the school. They also indulged in acts of violence in the big > village market of Trimohini.Many Hindu shops in the Trimohini market were > burnt and looted. Further the armed Muslim rioters attacked the three Hindu > villages of Jhaubona, Trimohini andDarapara. Many Hindu houses were burnt > and looted in these three villages.According to reliable reports, in one > house 4 Hindus died in the fire, including a father and his daughter who > were burnt alive. In all, more than 12 Hindus have been killed and more > than > 150 Hindus have been seriously injured. The injured persons were admitted > to Baharampur and Amtala hospitals. I have disturbing news to the effect > that all the people living in the Hindu villages coming under Nawda and > Hariharpara Police Stations are keeping themselves awake through out the > night. They are scared of a possible Muslim attack upon their villages.* > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 25 17:19:00 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:49:00 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MS wants to partner UID project- 164 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907250449g65b70274sb26824bbf569f7d@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Is UID = Gross Transfer of money to the IT sector? If yes, then why IT only, at the cost of health, sanitation, education, rural roads, agriculture, hand loom etc? Regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/MS-wants-to-partner-UID-project/493846 MS wants to partner UID project Lauding the unique identity (UID) project as a great initiative, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates today said the software giant wanted to partner with India in the ambitious project that will give a unique identity number to each of its 1.17 billion people. “Microsoft wants to be a part of the unique identification project,” Gates told a conference organised by the IT industry lobby, Nasscom, here saying he was excited about the project. He said he would meet the chairman of the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) Nandan Nilekani to discuss the details of the project. Gates, who is here to receive the Indira Gandhi Prize for Peace, Disarmament and Development on behalf of the Gates Foundation, however, said the applications in banking and healthcare were yet to come up in a big way. UID will be a nationwide system of authentication and the UIDAI is aiming to roll out the first set of numbers in 12 to 18 months. “The finance minister in his Budget speech has said that ID numbers would be issued in 12-18 months. We take that as very strong direction and commitment. So we intend to abide by that,” Nilekani had told reporters yesterday after assuming the charge of his office. UID would be an enabling infrastructure for other identification schemes and will conform to different applications. UIDAI would provide a database of residents containing very simple database in biometrics. The authority will not issue biometric cards itself but the database it will create would help government agencies undertake that task. The UID number would help government identify targeted beneficiaries for the PDS, extending subsidy on kerosene or for providing new LPG connection. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 25 17:23:14 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:53:14 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sinha_seeks_clarification_on_Nilek?= =?windows-1252?q?ani=92s_statement-_165?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40907250453w1b5f44d5r5572e7d5a9016727@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Yashwant Sinha asks Nandu whether UIDC be issued to residents of India and not to citizens of India? Could we ask them- who is a resident of India? or whether who is a citizen of India? How many people in India have got a verifiable paper evidence to prove their identity? Warm regards Taha http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Sinha-seeks-clarification-on-Nilekanis-statement/articleshow/4818236.cms Sinha seeks clarification on Nilekani’s statement 25 Jul 2009, 0358 hrs IST, ET Bureau NEW DELHI: Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) chairman Nandan Nilekani’s statement that a unique identification number would be issued to all residents of India, and not the “citizens of India” as asserted earlier by Union home minister P Chidambaram, created ripples in the Lok Sabha on Friday with BJP demanding a clarification from the government on the targeted coverage of the ambitious scheme. Raising the issue during zero hour in the Lok Sabha, former Union minister Yashwant Sinha said there has been “deviation” in statements by Mr Chidambaram and Mr Nilekani over who will get the card. While the home minister has said that the card is for Indian citizens only, Mr Nilekani on Thursday was quoted as saying that the unique number would be allocated to all Indian residents, including non-citizens. Seeking an end to the ambiguity, Mr Sinha — who, incidentally, hailed the appointment of the Infosys boss as head of the UIAI — asked the government to make a statement clarifying the scope of coverage of the UPA’s flagship scheme. Speaking to newspersons soon after taking over as UIAI chairman here on Thursday, Mr Nilekani had stated that the first set of unique identification numbers would be issued within 12-18 months. However, when asked specifically how the authority would issue identification numbers in states like Assam, Tripura and West Bengal where large number of Bangladeshi migrants live, he said the project was for residents. “The charter of this (project) is to create an online database of residents of the country,” he said. Mr Nilekani further clarified that UIAI is not going to issue cards and it will only create a database of residents’ identity. “We will have a very simple database which provides biometric and demographic identity details like name, number, date of birth.....very basic things,” he said. The unique numbers, according to Mr Nilekani, would not only provide an identity to citizens but will also help them in obtaining benefits of government schemes and also undertake with ease other activities like opening bank accounts and availing electricity connection. The government had appointed Mr Nilekani as UIAI chairman last month and allocated Rs 120 crore for the ambitious project in the current fiscal. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 17:36:22 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:36:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deliberately Suppressed News In-Reply-To: <341380d00907250400m77feeb5awe07ec891c58c2b80@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870907242332gfb4698akb80300087951909f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907250400m77feeb5awe07ec891c58c2b80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907250506u64a5f72dqd295190c293fce64@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, This was a gist from the article titled "1946 direct action of Jinnah re-enacted – I" written by V Sundaram which was published in the "News today" on the 15th of July. The electronic version of the article is available in the following link http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=18189 Regards, V Murali On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 4:30 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Murali, > > Kindly attribute the source of information. Especially, this bit: BUT > SCHOOL > MANAGEMENT AND THE HINDU STUDENTS RESISTED IT APPREHENDING THAT IT WILL > CREATE A VIRTUAL MOSQUE INSIDE THE SCHOOL.Consequently, the furious Muslim > students made objection against Saraswati Puja in the school and the school > management has been compelled to stop Saraswati puja last year in the > school. > > with regards > anupam > > On 7/25/09, Murali V wrote: > > > > The print and electronic English media have conspired together against > the > > innocent Hindus of West Bengal by completely blacking out the news > > regarding > > the savage communal attack on the Hindus carried out by the criminal > Muslim > > elements in Murshidabad district on July 10, 2009.* > > * > > *More than 12 Hindus have been killed and hundreds have been injured > > including 10 Policemen and one DSP rank Police Officer in Murshidabad > > District. Two village markets and hundreds of Hindu houses and Hindu > shops > > were looted and burnt.Firing between the Police and Muslim rioters were > > going on for more than 48 hours till July 12’ 09. BSF and CRPF men have > > been > > deployed to help the local police and the RAF. Our English Newspapers > and > > TV Channels have completely suppressed this news. All of them seem to be > > more concerned about the fight that is now going on between the Muslim > > Chinese and the non-Muslim Han Chinese in Urumqi, the Capital of Western > > Xinjiang region, in China.* > > * > > * > > *Most important fact that should be noted is that Murshidabad is a Muslim > > majority district bordering Bangladesh and unauthorized infiltration of > > Muslims — the favourite vote banks of CPI(M) and Sonia Congress parties — > > has been rampant from 1980. The Muslims were in minority in Murshidabad > > District on August 15, 1947. Today they are in absolute majority. * > > * > > * > > *All the trouble started in Jhaubona High School in Jhaubonavillage > coming > > under Nawda police station in Beldanga Sub Division in > Murshidabaddistrict. > > Out > > of a total of 1000 students in this school, about 50% are Muslim > students. > > For > > long the Muslim students have been demanding to offer Friday Namazinside > > the > > school. BUT SCHOOL MANAGEMENT AND THE HINDU STUDENTS RESISTED IT > > APPREHENDING THAT IT WILL CREATE A VIRTUAL MOSQUE INSIDE THE > > SCHOOL.Consequently, > > the furious Muslim students made objection against Saraswati Puja in the > > school and the school management has been compelled to stop Saraswati > puja > > last year in the school. Suddenly in a fit of passion, all the Muslim > > students in this school unilaterally planned to offer Friday Namaz on > July > > 10, 2009 by force inside the school without any permission from the Head > > Master or the School Management. Hindu students protested against the > move > > to convert the school into a make-shift mosque. As a result altercation > > started at 12 noon on July 10, 2009 between the two groups of students. > > * > > * > > * > > *Muslims were totally prepared for an armed rioting. Through cell phone > > they > > spread the false message that Hindu students attacked Muslim students in > > the > > school. Within 10-15 minutes, thousands of Muslims led by the students of > > nearbyTrimohini Madrasa rushed to the school. They attacked the Hindu > > students in the school. They also indulged in acts of violence in the big > > village market of Trimohini.Many Hindu shops in the Trimohini market were > > burnt and looted. Further the armed Muslim rioters attacked the three > Hindu > > villages of Jhaubona, Trimohini andDarapara. Many Hindu houses were burnt > > and looted in these three villages.According to reliable reports, in one > > house 4 Hindus died in the fire, including a father and his daughter who > > were burnt alive. In all, more than 12 Hindus have been killed and more > > than > > 150 Hindus have been seriously injured. The injured persons were admitted > > to Baharampur and Amtala hospitals. I have disturbing news to the effect > > that all the people living in the Hindu villages coming under Nawda and > > Hariharpara Police Stations are keeping themselves awake through out the > > night. They are scared of a possible Muslim attack upon their villages.* > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 17:42:09 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:42:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sinha_seeks_clarification_on_Nilek?= =?windows-1252?q?ani=92s_statement-_165?= In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907250453w1b5f44d5r5572e7d5a9016727@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907250453w1b5f44d5r5572e7d5a9016727@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907250512n7a5a1f5cwb7117c42a38e2239@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, and Taha, while we appreciate the efforts by your goodself to create awareness amongst citizens of India about the new project of id for all, it is very much appreciated but at the same time your obsessive syndrome of jealousy against some one who is with project is becoming too obivious.! Citizens of the nation is much abused word in this nation, whereas the definition of citizen is subject to book of laws, the practise has been dismal to implement the laws, be it illegal immigrents from other neighbouring nations.We have also those walking, talking nations as citizens of the nation, who avail all the facilities of the citizenship, but do not recognise the nation as theirs.! e.g Arundhati Roy for one.! And there are citizens who are bigger than nation itself, such as Sonia, mother of all scams.! The database of gas connections, BPL cards and driving licenses and even the basic SSC certificate are plagued by duplocates along with caste certificates.! Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear All, > > Yashwant Sinha asks Nandu whether UIDC be issued to residents of India > and not to citizens of India? > > Could we ask them- who is a resident of India? > > or whether who is a citizen of India? > > How many people in India have got a verifiable paper evidence to prove > their identity? > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Sinha-seeks-clarification-on-Nilekanis-statement/articleshow/4818236.cms > > Sinha seeks clarification on Nilekani’s statement > 25 Jul 2009, 0358 hrs IST, ET Bureau > > NEW DELHI: Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) chairman > Nandan Nilekani’s statement that a unique identification number would > be > issued to all residents of India, and not the “citizens of India” as > asserted earlier by Union home minister P Chidambaram, created ripples > in the Lok Sabha on Friday with BJP demanding a clarification from the > government on the targeted coverage of the ambitious scheme. > > Raising the issue during zero hour in the Lok Sabha, former Union > minister Yashwant Sinha said there has been “deviation” in statements > by Mr Chidambaram and Mr Nilekani over who will get the card. While > the home minister has said that the card is for Indian citizens only, > Mr Nilekani on Thursday was quoted as saying that the unique number > would be allocated to all Indian residents, including non-citizens. > > Seeking an end to the ambiguity, Mr Sinha — who, incidentally, hailed > the appointment of the Infosys boss as head of the UIAI — asked the > government to make a statement clarifying the scope of coverage of the > UPA’s flagship scheme. > > Speaking to newspersons soon after taking over as UIAI chairman here > on Thursday, Mr Nilekani had stated that the first set of unique > identification numbers would be issued within 12-18 months. > > However, when asked specifically how the authority would issue > identification numbers in states like Assam, Tripura and West Bengal > where large number of Bangladeshi migrants live, he said the project > was for residents. “The charter of this (project) is to create an > online database of residents of the country,” he said. > > Mr Nilekani further clarified that UIAI is not going to issue cards > and it will only create a database of residents’ identity. “We will > have a very simple database which provides biometric and demographic > identity details like name, number, date of birth.....very basic > things,” he said. > > The unique numbers, according to Mr Nilekani, would not only provide > an identity to citizens but will also help them in obtaining benefits > of government schemes and also undertake with ease other activities > like opening bank accounts and availing electricity connection. > > The government had appointed Mr Nilekani as UIAI chairman last month > and allocated Rs 120 crore for the ambitious project in the current > fiscal. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jul 25 18:19:07 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:49:07 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sinha_seeks_clarification_on_Nilek?= =?windows-1252?q?ani=92s_statement-_165?= In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907250512n7a5a1f5cwb7117c42a38e2239@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907250453w1b5f44d5r5572e7d5a9016727@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907250512n7a5a1f5cwb7117c42a38e2239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907250549n7b96d812vda3f5edd9edfbcc2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen and All, In the time honored traditions of reader-listers, I must confess that, I am tempted to start a tu-tu-main-main, however, I would not. Primarily because I think that the issue at hand is too big and too important and too critical and too crucial to allow nobody's like to yours truly, to respond to an allegation that one is feeling 'Jealous' of Thiru Nandu :-). However I would like to extend heartfelt thanks for humoring us. Dear Rajen Thank you. What I do not understand is, as you also suggest, that when all the lists are infested with fraudulent entries then why is UIDAI thinking to using them and issuing UID numbers? Doesn't it defeat the very purpose for which it and it's predecessor, the MNIC was created? Therefore if after ten years of beating around the bush the GOI feels that no verification of a billion people is necessary, then why public money to the tune of 500 or so crores was invested? Where is the accountability of that money? Who is to blame here? Will there be an possible recourse to a legal action for wasting this money? By using existing lists, is the government not openly allowing all those who are definitely not Indian to enter Indian territory and acquire legitimacy? or wouldn't those who are Indians but do not have legitimate papers and thus whose names do not figure in any public or official lists could be branded as non-residents or not Indians? Warm regards Taha From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 22:17:26 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:17:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Indian Men Are Still Boys Message-ID: To read the full story: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/why-indian-men-are-still-boys Excerpts from a Tehelka article by Nisha Susan: Evidence is, the urban Indian male hasn’t really changed. He is cocooned as he has always been in a sort of prolonged infantilism – a hatchery protected by doting mothers, fathers, sisters, girlfriends, and society itself. Changed rules, changed expectations and zero preparedness. He paints a picture of utter pathos. “If I am supposed to cook, why can’t I cry? We men are constantly guessing. Am I supposed to pay for dinner or not? We have nothing to go on — you just patch something your girlfriend told you with something you saw on Star World and hope to get by!” THERE seems to be a simple equation between parents and the drought of responsible, responsive Indian men. In the homes of People Like Us, young boys do not automatically learn to cook or even to be grateful to those who cook for them. They are rarely taught to anticipate other people’s needs. Young Indian men routinely brutalise incoming juniors in colleges and justify it as tradition or socialising. Stripping, beatings, ritual humiliation, the eating of shit and licking of toilets, sodomy – everyone has a story. Worryingly, these stories are told with a grin. When an Indian man goes away from home (if at all he does) he is almost entirely unprepared to look after himself. Indian university towns such as Pune, for instance, are full of well-heeled young teenage boys housed with cook-cum-major-domos to clean up after them. Young women in Indian metros often refuse to visit their male contemporaries’ homes, sure that there will be no towels, no furniture and no food. >From the moment they can walk, Indian men are taught to provide but not feel. Taught to command, not empathise. Taught to expect subservience not companionship. Taught, most damagingly, to repudiate their emotions. Their inner life. Their capacity for variety. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 22:21:21 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:21:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sinha_seeks_clarification_on_Nilek?= =?windows-1252?q?ani=92s_statement-_165?= In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907250512n7a5a1f5cwb7117c42a38e2239@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907250453w1b5f44d5r5572e7d5a9016727@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907250512n7a5a1f5cwb7117c42a38e2239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907250951t56000df4qb4238c2054715560@mail.gmail.com> A patriotic citizen is a non entity. As Rajen rightly said the so called nation recognizes people like Sonia who by virtue of being a Gandy ( Not Gandhi), Arundhati, the vote bank etc as citizens. May this country survive the tidal waves from external factors. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > and Taha, > while we appreciate the efforts by your goodself to create awareness > amongst citizens of India about the new project of id for all, it is very > much appreciated but at the same time your obsessive syndrome of jealousy > against some one who is with project is becoming too obivious.! > > Citizens of the nation is much abused word in this nation, whereas the > definition of citizen is subject to book of laws, the practise has been > dismal to implement the laws, be it illegal immigrents from other > neighbouring nations.We have also those walking, talking nations as > citizens > of the nation, who avail all the facilities of the citizenship, but do not > recognise the nation as theirs.! e.g Arundhati Roy for one.! > > And there are citizens who are bigger than nation itself, such as Sonia, > mother of all scams.! > > The database of gas connections, BPL cards and driving licenses and even > the > basic SSC certificate are plagued by duplocates along with caste > certificates.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > Yashwant Sinha asks Nandu whether UIDC be issued to residents of India > > and not to citizens of India? > > > > Could we ask them- who is a resident of India? > > > > or whether who is a citizen of India? > > > > How many people in India have got a verifiable paper evidence to prove > > their identity? > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > > > > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Sinha-seeks-clarification-on-Nilekanis-statement/articleshow/4818236.cms > > > > Sinha seeks clarification on Nilekani’s statement > > 25 Jul 2009, 0358 hrs IST, ET Bureau > > > > NEW DELHI: Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) chairman > > Nandan Nilekani’s statement that a unique identification number would > > be > > issued to all residents of India, and not the “citizens of India” as > > asserted earlier by Union home minister P Chidambaram, created ripples > > in the Lok Sabha on Friday with BJP demanding a clarification from the > > government on the targeted coverage of the ambitious scheme. > > > > Raising the issue during zero hour in the Lok Sabha, former Union > > minister Yashwant Sinha said there has been “deviation” in statements > > by Mr Chidambaram and Mr Nilekani over who will get the card. While > > the home minister has said that the card is for Indian citizens only, > > Mr Nilekani on Thursday was quoted as saying that the unique number > > would be allocated to all Indian residents, including non-citizens. > > > > Seeking an end to the ambiguity, Mr Sinha — who, incidentally, hailed > > the appointment of the Infosys boss as head of the UIAI — asked the > > government to make a statement clarifying the scope of coverage of the > > UPA’s flagship scheme. > > > > Speaking to newspersons soon after taking over as UIAI chairman here > > on Thursday, Mr Nilekani had stated that the first set of unique > > identification numbers would be issued within 12-18 months. > > > > However, when asked specifically how the authority would issue > > identification numbers in states like Assam, Tripura and West Bengal > > where large number of Bangladeshi migrants live, he said the project > > was for residents. “The charter of this (project) is to create an > > online database of residents of the country,” he said. > > > > Mr Nilekani further clarified that UIAI is not going to issue cards > > and it will only create a database of residents’ identity. “We will > > have a very simple database which provides biometric and demographic > > identity details like name, number, date of birth.....very basic > > things,” he said. > > > > The unique numbers, according to Mr Nilekani, would not only provide > > an identity to citizens but will also help them in obtaining benefits > > of government schemes and also undertake with ease other activities > > like opening bank accounts and availing electricity connection. > > > > The government had appointed Mr Nilekani as UIAI chairman last month > > and allocated Rs 120 crore for the ambitious project in the current > > fiscal. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 22:29:38 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:29:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sinha_seeks_clarification_on_Nilek?= =?windows-1252?q?ani=92s_statement-_165?= In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907250951t56000df4qb4238c2054715560@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907250453w1b5f44d5r5572e7d5a9016727@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907250512n7a5a1f5cwb7117c42a38e2239@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907250951t56000df4qb4238c2054715560@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907250959i57d19448o26e60c73883760c9@mail.gmail.com> Does it also recognise Abul Kalam Azad or should it continue to exist as Rajen suggests in a mail written to a reader recently, "as your surname suggests"? On 7/25/09, Murali V wrote: > > A patriotic citizen is a non entity. As Rajen rightly said the so called > nation recognizes people like Sonia who by virtue of being a Gandy ( Not > Gandhi), Arundhati, the vote bank etc as citizens. > May this country survive the tidal waves from external factors. > Regards, > V Murali > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > and Taha, > > while we appreciate the efforts by your goodself to create awareness > > amongst citizens of India about the new project of id for all, it is very > > much appreciated but at the same time your obsessive syndrome of jealousy > > against some one who is with project is becoming too obivious.! > > > > Citizens of the nation is much abused word in this nation, whereas the > > definition of citizen is subject to book of laws, the practise has been > > dismal to implement the laws, be it illegal immigrents from other > > neighbouring nations.We have also those walking, talking nations as > > citizens > > of the nation, who avail all the facilities of the citizenship, but do > not > > recognise the nation as theirs.! e.g Arundhati Roy for one.! > > > > And there are citizens who are bigger than nation itself, such as Sonia, > > mother of all scams.! > > > > The database of gas connections, BPL cards and driving licenses and even > > the > > basic SSC certificate are plagued by duplocates along with caste > > certificates.! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Taha Mehmood > > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Yashwant Sinha asks Nandu whether UIDC be issued to residents of India > > > and not to citizens of India? > > > > > > Could we ask them- who is a resident of India? > > > > > > or whether who is a citizen of India? > > > > > > How many people in India have got a verifiable paper evidence to prove > > > their identity? > > > > > > Warm regards > > > > > > Taha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/PoliticsNation/Sinha-seeks-clarification-on-Nilekanis-statement/articleshow/4818236.cms > > > > > > Sinha seeks clarification on Nilekani’s statement > > > 25 Jul 2009, 0358 hrs IST, ET Bureau > > > > > > NEW DELHI: Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) chairman > > > Nandan Nilekani’s statement that a unique identification number would > > > be > > > issued to all residents of India, and not the “citizens of India” as > > > asserted earlier by Union home minister P Chidambaram, created ripples > > > in the Lok Sabha on Friday with BJP demanding a clarification from the > > > government on the targeted coverage of the ambitious scheme. > > > > > > Raising the issue during zero hour in the Lok Sabha, former Union > > > minister Yashwant Sinha said there has been “deviation” in statements > > > by Mr Chidambaram and Mr Nilekani over who will get the card. While > > > the home minister has said that the card is for Indian citizens only, > > > Mr Nilekani on Thursday was quoted as saying that the unique number > > > would be allocated to all Indian residents, including non-citizens. > > > > > > Seeking an end to the ambiguity, Mr Sinha — who, incidentally, hailed > > > the appointment of the Infosys boss as head of the UIAI — asked the > > > government to make a statement clarifying the scope of coverage of the > > > UPA’s flagship scheme. > > > > > > Speaking to newspersons soon after taking over as UIAI chairman here > > > on Thursday, Mr Nilekani had stated that the first set of unique > > > identification numbers would be issued within 12-18 months. > > > > > > However, when asked specifically how the authority would issue > > > identification numbers in states like Assam, Tripura and West Bengal > > > where large number of Bangladeshi migrants live, he said the project > > > was for residents. “The charter of this (project) is to create an > > > online database of residents of the country,” he said. > > > > > > Mr Nilekani further clarified that UIAI is not going to issue cards > > > and it will only create a database of residents’ identity. “We will > > > have a very simple database which provides biometric and demographic > > > identity details like name, number, date of birth.....very basic > > > things,” he said. > > > > > > The unique numbers, according to Mr Nilekani, would not only provide > > > an identity to citizens but will also help them in obtaining benefits > > > of government schemes and also undertake with ease other activities > > > like opening bank accounts and availing electricity connection. > > > > > > The government had appointed Mr Nilekani as UIAI chairman last month > > > and allocated Rs 120 crore for the ambitious project in the current > > > fiscal. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From navayana at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 08:49:02 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reminder: 27 July Monday @ Sarai, CSDS Message-ID: Navayana and Sarai invite you to the fourth in the series of Navayana-Sarai lectures on Monday, 27 July 2009, 3.30 p.m. at Seminar Room, CSDS Hindi writer Ajay Navaria will read selections from his short fiction, and Laura Brueck will speak on “The Alienation of Modernity in Ajay Navaria’s Fiction”. Ajay Navaria is the author of a collection of short stories (*Patkatha aur anya Kahaniyan*, 2006) and the novel (*Udhar ke Log*, 2008). Navaria has been involved with the premier literary journal Hans as a guest editor for special issues. He was bestowed with the Sahitiyik Kriti Award in 2008 by the Hindi Academy, Delhi. Navaria teaches at Jamia Milia Islamia University, Delhi. Laura Brueck is Assistant Professor in Hindi at the Department of Asian Languages and Civilizations at the University of Colorado in Boulder. Her research focuses on contemporary Hindi Dalit literature. Her 2006 PhD dissertation was titled “Rethinking Resistance: Constructing a Hindi Dalit Literary Identity in Contemporary India”. www.navayana.org www.sarai.net Sarai-CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, New Delhi 110054 For further details, contact: S. Anand www.navayana.org Navayana Publishing 120, Ground Floor Shahpur Jat New Delhi 110049 Landline: +91-11-26494795 Mobile: +91-9971433117 -- From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 10:51:59 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:51:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Writers' Residency at Sangam House (near Pondicherry): Apply by July 31, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From http://blog.prathambooks.org/2009/07/writers-residency-programme-at-sangam.html Every winter the Sangam House Writer's Residency Program invites approximately twenty writers to live and work on the Adishakti property outside Pondicherry, on the east coast of southern India. Lodging (single rooms) and food will be provided free of charge. Each writer is responsible for travel costs to and from Pondicherry. However, travel funds and bursaries are available through various cultural organizations. Residencies are structured in 1-3 month intervals, determined by individual needs. We recommend a residence period of no less than 3 weeks for each writer. Of the invited writers, half come from the South Asian subcontinent (India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Bhutan, Nepal, and Sri Lanka) and half from other countries around the world. Sangam House is open to writers in all languages and disciplines. The session will run for approximately three months from mid-November 2009 to mid-February 2010. Residents are selected through an application process. Interested writers are asked to submit the following three items: Two letters of nomination. These should be provided by a publishing or writing professional. Writing and publishing professionals are defined as: publishers, published writers, published translators, professors, editors, and literary agents. The letters should evaluate the work you propose to do at Sangam House or make reference to your previous work. Please have letters emailed or posted to the appropriate address below, independent and separate from your other application materials. One non-returnable copy of a previously published book. If the writer has not yet published a book, a 25 page work sample should be submitted. The book or work sample can be submitted in the writer's native language, English, or both. One page statement describing the work to be undertaken while at Sangam House. In addition to general applications, Sangam House offers a select amount of specific fellowships.For more details on the residency programme and the fellowships available, click here. The deadline to send in your applications is 31st July, 2009. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 10:57:32 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:57:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Global Education Awards 2009: Call for Nominations - Apply before July 31 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found this online. Just sharing it. Here's where I found it http://www.cclpworldwide.com/esi/node/25 *Call for Nominations* Global Education Awards 2009 The International Council of CCLP Worldwide is pleased to announce the first year of awards program whose purpose is to recognize the contribution of individuals and organizations and others as initiators in advancing education for better livelihood. Award Criteria: Awards shall be given in recognition of concept, organizational effort and dedication towards promoting and advancing the work of education for better livelihood. Eligible Recipients: Up to three global awards will be given annually—one for each of the following categories of contributors to education for Livelihood: 1. Individual 2. degree-granting social work education programs 3. national and international organizations Types of Awards: Award recipients will receive both a letter and an engraved plaque in recognition of their contributions to the advancement of education for better livelihood. Awards will be posted to the address of the winner or may be announced or presented at ceremony. Nominations Process: Letters of nomination for Partner awards must include the following: 1. The name and complete communications information for each nominee (including complete mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail address, etc.); 2. the nominator’s rationale for the nomination (with a clear statement concerning the works and efforts made by the nominee in advancing education for livelihood); 3. documentation in support of the nomination (e.g., a current curriculum vitae and copies of selected publications for individual nominees or, in the case of organizational nominees, a copy of the organization’s most recent annual report, copies of relevant stories concerning the nominee organization in the public media, as well as a detailed description of the activities engaged in by the nominee that contributes to the advancement of education for livelihood); and, 4. Other materials that nominators believe would be helpful to the Awards Committee in reviewing the merits of nominees. Nominations are open to all individuals, social work programs, and organizations regardless of Country language, religion, caste, creed and race Letters of nominations may be submitted in electronic or hard copy form. However, single copies of documentation in support of the nomination(s)--e.g., publications, stories about nominees in the mass media, school catalogues, course syllabi, videos and other non-electronic materials--must be mailed to the Awards Committee Chair at the address indicated below. Where to Submit Nominations: Both electronic and hard copy of all nominations for 2009 International Education Awards should be sent to: His Excellency Ambassador Lamartine Hollanda Junior Chairman of International awards Committee CCLP Worldwide Co-chair at cclpworldwide.com , phr.brazil at principality-hutt-river.com And award at cclpworldwide.com or CCLP Worldwide International Secretariat 17 Tara Chand Dutt Street Kolkata 700073, India Deadline for Submission of Nominations: Nominations must be received at the above address not later than, July31, 2009. We strongly suggest you to send us all the documents electronically. From patrice at xs4all.nl Sun Jul 26 14:50:41 2009 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:20:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 Message-ID: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> More comments from Eduard de Jong (HFH) on the Indian ID scheme. reposted with permission. Cheers, p+2D! ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [discussion] [Fwd: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163] From: "Eduard de Jong" Date: Sun, July 26, 2009 11:05 To: discussion at hippiesfromhell.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The figures and time-scale and budget for issuing these cards in India seems a complete fantasy. At present it may be possible to by 1.2 Bilion cards at $1 per card, although that will require a lot of negotiating... Total world market for 2008 was 5.4 Billion, of which 65% goes into GSM phones and 3%!! for government projects ()... To me it is unclear where the Indian program could actually procure such a large quantity (20%!!!, 7 times the used capacity for this market segment of last year) of chips/cards and also have them delivered to you over the planned 3 month issuing period... It seems absurd to think that the local Indian production capacity will be able to handle such a volume. The largest card manufacturers are in France (no1, no3) Germany (no2) and China... together these companies provide over 70% of the world market. A similar issue is the capacity to personalize the chips, that is write the individual citizen data in the chip memory and print the outside: Atop range machine can do 7000 cards an hour: such a machine does 15M cards in 3 month (assuming it is operational 7*24 for the full period, highly unlikely). The totall personalization capacity required would be 1000 of such machines, at least..... I'm sure the German!! manufacturers of such machines will be happy to fulfill such an order..... Not sure how many months pr maybe years!!! that will take.... As to the costs, the cost of issuing the card is not in manufacturing the chip+card it is in gathering the data for personalization and actually handing them out to the INTENDED recipient. Just only think of all the incorrect addresses that must be present in the citizen database: if that is 5% (extremely low) 60Million cards have to be hand processed for correction. Add to that the handling of other incorrect data, and an average figure of 15$ per card may be realistic yet low estimate of the issuing costs! Net effect it will be at least 10 times as expensive!!! And likely it will take 3 years to complete. For instance in Germany they plan a full year to issue 60Million new healthcare (insured) cards, with initial trial issuance in one state over a 3 month period with a planning for evaluation and possible adjustments. Of-course, India can do this on-a-shoestring, rushing cards out, ignoring data errors etc, and maybe this way the cost overrun can be limited to 3 times the estimate, and issuance completed in a year. Then again, this also makes the whole exercise utterly useless, as an unknown fraction of the cards are incorrect: The cards will not be a reliable citizen id card, and those institution needing such reliable identity will ask for complementary documents. India may have a centralized database of all its citizens and use that to make the personalization data for the ID cards, the USA certainly has not. In the USA the most reliable source of citizen data is the state issued drivers licence. Many states use different IT systems, different data, different formats, so creating a consistent data set as input to card personalization will be a huge technical effort. And require a lot of political will. Even so, the reliabilyo of this data is relatively low, as it has not been collected for the purpose of identification... The Bush government, AFAIK, introduced measures to make individual states enhance the data collection for drivers licences, in an attempt to establish a de-facto national ID. Not sure how well these initiatives have fared.... Finally once more on technology: the card intended for use is based on the SCOSTA card mask (some people call that an OS, i don't) which is basically a fixed function, static data-model application card. It does not support in-field application management. Changing functions, or replacing broken cryptography or adding applications wont be possible other than by reissuance all cards. Even if the first issuance does not become a financial and logistic debacle it is now heading for, who-scale reissuance will be a very hard sell, politically..... Without such update capacity the issued cards are doomed for technical obsoleteness within 5 years.... Oh, and i haven't seen anything about stepping stepping up the IT support infrastructure to support 1.2 Billion users of it devices, of which likely over 20% will fail in each year requiring support actions ranging from holding hands in use, modifying card data to reissuance of the card. A smart card is an IT device not a piece of paper that does not require maintenance.... I guess, maybe they count on local governments to fill the gaps when angry citizens start complaining. In Japan, the citizen id card program has recognized this need for flexibility, and the card's functions are planned to be upgraded and modified, possibly with per prefecture different functions. The central government specifies and controls a small application and issuance is delegated to local levels, which also control additional functions of the card. They went to the effort of initiating an ISO standard for card function maintenance (ISO/IEC 7816-13). And planned this as a long term project, 5+ years: technical agility of the card is essential on such a project time frame. It will be interesting to see how this Indian id-card project will evolve, certainly it will be of historic interest: most likely as yet another example of a failed government IT project. cheers Eduard P.s. The sad thing is, of course, that in this interconnected world citizens need a reliable, privacy protecting credentialing device for their interactions on the web. None of these conceived Id-cards get At 10:10 -0700 24/7/09, Carl Guderian wrote: >More proof that Senator Cornhole (my other idiot >Senator) is completely out to lunch. > >Even right after 9/11 and before the mess of >Iraq became too big to hide, and even up to >Katrina, while the mass media were sniffing >Bush's codpiece and people were scared enough to >accept government organs with sinister-sounding >names like the Department of Homeland Security >and Total Information Awareness (with its >eye-in-the-pyramid logo), US citizens still >didn't go for national ID cards. The Republicans >got ID requirements passed in various states in >order to shake down poor (Democratic-leaning) >voters for 20 bucks, but that's as far as it got. > >So the Senator's pushing the idea now, at a time >when rightwing talkshow hosts are stoking fear >of the government during the Obama >administration, and dipshits are threatening to >secede? > >FAIL > > From jeebesh at sarai.net Sun Jul 26 15:21:32 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:21:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 In-Reply-To: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> dear patrice, thanks for this mail. it opens up something that we hope will be taken up for investigation by people here. warmly jeebesh On 26-Jul-09, at 2:50 PM, Patrice Riemens wrote: > > More comments from Eduard de Jong (HFH) on the Indian ID scheme. > reposted with permission. > Cheers, p+2D! > > > ---------------------------- Original Message > ---------------------------- > Subject: Re: [discussion] [Fwd: [Reader-list] India's ID project > catches > fancy of US lawmakers- 163] > From: "Eduard de Jong" > Date: Sun, July 26, 2009 11:05 > To: discussion at hippiesfromhell.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The figures and time-scale and budget for issuing > these cards in India seems a complete fantasy. > > At present it may be possible to by 1.2 Bilion > cards at $1 per card, although that will require > a lot of negotiating... Total world market for > 2008 was 5.4 Billion, of which 65% goes into GSM > phones and 3%!! for government projects > ( overview.html>)... > To me it is unclear where the Indian program > could actually procure such a large quantity > (20%!!!, 7 times the used capacity for this > market segment of last year) of chips/cards and > also have them delivered to you over the planned > 3 month issuing period... > > It seems absurd to think that the local Indian > production capacity will be able to handle such a > volume. The largest card manufacturers are in > France (no1, no3) Germany (no2) and China... > together these companies provide over 70% of the > world market. > > A similar issue is the capacity to personalize > the chips, that is write the individual citizen > data in the chip memory and print the outside: > Atop range machine can do 7000 cards an hour: > such a machine does 15M cards in 3 month > (assuming it is operational 7*24 for the full > period, highly unlikely). The totall > personalization capacity required would be 1000 > of such machines, at least..... I'm sure the > German!! manufacturers of such machines will be > happy to fulfill such an order..... Not sure how > many months pr maybe years!!! that will take.... > > As to the costs, the cost of issuing the card is > not in manufacturing the chip+card it is in > gathering the data for personalization and > actually handing them out to the INTENDED > recipient. Just only think of all the incorrect > addresses that must be present in the citizen > database: if that is 5% (extremely low) 60Million > cards have to be hand processed for correction. > Add to that the handling of other incorrect data, > and an average figure of 15$ per card may be > realistic yet low estimate of the issuing costs! > Net effect it will be at least 10 times as > expensive!!! > > And likely it will take 3 years to complete. For > instance in Germany they plan a full year to > issue 60Million new healthcare (insured) cards, > with initial trial issuance in one state over a 3 > month period with a planning for evaluation and > possible adjustments. > > Of-course, India can do this on-a-shoestring, > rushing cards out, ignoring data errors etc, and > maybe this way the cost overrun can be limited to > 3 times the estimate, and issuance completed in a > year. Then again, this also makes the whole > exercise utterly useless, as an unknown fraction > of the cards are incorrect: The cards will not be > a reliable citizen id card, and those institution > needing such reliable identity will ask for > complementary documents. > > India may have a centralized database of all its > citizens and use that to make the personalization > data for the ID cards, the USA certainly has not. > In the USA the most reliable source of citizen > data is the state issued drivers licence. Many > states use different IT systems, different data, > different formats, so creating a consistent data > set as input to card personalization will be a > huge technical effort. And require a lot of > political will. Even so, the reliabilyo of this > data is relatively low, as it has not been > collected for the purpose of identification... > The Bush government, AFAIK, introduced measures > to make individual states enhance the data > collection for drivers licences, in an attempt to > establish a de-facto national ID. Not sure how > well these initiatives have fared.... > > Finally once more on technology: the card > intended for use is based on the SCOSTA card mask > (some people call that an OS, i don't) which is > basically a fixed function, static data-model > application card. It does not support in-field > application management. Changing functions, or > replacing broken cryptography or adding > applications wont be possible other than by > reissuance all cards. Even if the first issuance > does not become a financial and logistic debacle > it is now heading for, who-scale reissuance will > be a very hard sell, politically..... Without > such update capacity the issued cards are doomed > for technical obsoleteness within 5 years.... > > Oh, and i haven't seen anything about stepping > stepping up the IT support infrastructure to > support 1.2 Billion users of it devices, of which > likely over 20% will fail in each year requiring > support actions ranging from holding hands in > use, modifying card data to reissuance of the > card. A smart card is an IT device not a piece of > paper that does not require maintenance.... I > guess, maybe they count on local governments to > fill the gaps when angry citizens start > complaining. > > In Japan, the citizen id card program has > recognized this need for flexibility, and the > card's functions are planned to be upgraded and > modified, possibly with per prefecture different > functions. The central government specifies and > controls a small application and issuance is > delegated to local levels, which also control > additional functions of the card. They went to > the effort of initiating an ISO standard for card > function maintenance (ISO/IEC 7816-13). And > planned this as a long term project, 5+ years: > technical agility of the card is essential on > such a project time frame. > > It will be interesting to see how this Indian > id-card project will evolve, certainly it will be > of historic interest: most likely as yet another > example of a failed government IT project. > > cheers > Eduard > > P.s. > The sad thing is, of course, that in this > interconnected world citizens need a reliable, > privacy protecting credentialing device for their > interactions on the web. None of these conceived > Id-cards get > > At 10:10 -0700 24/7/09, Carl Guderian wrote: >> More proof that Senator Cornhole (my other idiot >> Senator) is completely out to lunch. >> >> Even right after 9/11 and before the mess of >> Iraq became too big to hide, and even up to >> Katrina, while the mass media were sniffing >> Bush's codpiece and people were scared enough to >> accept government organs with sinister-sounding >> names like the Department of Homeland Security >> and Total Information Awareness (with its >> eye-in-the-pyramid logo), US citizens still >> didn't go for national ID cards. The Republicans >> got ID requirements passed in various states in >> order to shake down poor (Democratic-leaning) >> voters for 20 bucks, but that's as far as it got. >> >> So the Senator's pushing the idea now, at a time >> when rightwing talkshow hosts are stoking fear >> of the government during the Obama >> administration, and dipshits are threatening to >> secede? >> >> FAIL >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Sun Jul 26 15:24:03 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:24:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [Commons-Law] Gates wants window to India's national ID project References: <4439ee330907240839t24b87ed3vccf909cf496347fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20F61B64-B1A0-4C32-88B3-4CA3B4E1CD5A@sarai.net> Now!! Begin forwarded message: > From: Nishant | निशाँत > Date: 24 July 2009 9:09:51 PM GMT+05:30 > To: commons-law at sarai.net > Subject: [Commons-Law] Gates wants window to India's national ID > project > > Take note of the portions on the national ID project. > > Nishant. > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/gates-wants-window-to-indias-national-id-project/97823-7.html > > Gates wants window to India's national ID project > > New Delhi: Microsoft founder Bill Gates on Friday said it would be a > "big mistake" if the US curbs the entry of skilled workers from > abroad, rallying behind the "smart people" from countries like India > that has a globally recognised outsourcing industry. > > He also said Microsoft will like to partner the Indian government in > its ambitious plan to give a unique identity number and a biometric > card to each of its 1.17 billion people. > > "I can't make any predictions. Immigration policy could get more > difficult. Microsoft as a company is very vocal. It would be a big > mistake," said Gates, here for overseeing the philanthropic activities > of the foundation he has formed with his wife Melinda. > > "The US Congress is very tough on immigration. But why not make an > exception for smart people?" he said at an interactive session > organised by the National Association of Software and Service > Companies (Nasscom) at the Durbar Hall of Taj Palace Hotel here. > > Gates even maintained that the job market in the US had not shifted > anywhere, when asked to respond to US President Barack Obama's > comments that he will not like jobs to be taken away from Buffalo to > outsourcing companies in Bangalore. > > "If we get the statistics, about 1,800 US people are working here > (in India)." > > Even though Gates now devotes most of his time to the Bill and Melinda > Gates Foundation, he has always been vocal about his support for > migrant professionals that is reflected in the number of such workers > at the Microsoft offices in the US. > > According to Nasscom, Indian nationals accounted for 157,726 H1B > visas, or 37.8 percent of the 409,619 admissions under this US > programme in 2008. This is a drop of about 3,000 professionals > compared to 2007. > > Gates said he was also keen to partner India in its ambitious plan to > issue a single identity card and number to its 1.17 billion citizens > for which a new authority has been formed under Infosys Technologies > co-founder Nandan Nilekani. > > "Microsoft wants to be part of the Unique Identification Authority of > India project," he said, adding that he hoped to meet with Nilekani to > discuss the issue. > > "I am very excited about the project. It is a great initiative. We > need to make sure every data is accurate. From a mobile phone number > to anything," Gates told the conference, also addressed by Minister > for State for Communications Sachin Pilot. > > During his current visit, Gates announced a major increase in his > foundation's AIDS prevention commitment to India to $338 million, > saying India's drive in this regard could serve as a model for the > rest of the world. > > Launched in 2003, his family foundation provides funding and support > to targeted HIV prevention programmes in six Indian states, including > Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, and along the national trucking routes > through an initiative called "Avahan". > > Prior to this, the foundation had committed a total of $258 million > for the purpose. > > Gates, who has always maintained a packed schedule during his visits > to India, was also scheduled to meet with Health Minister Ghulam Nabi > Azad and hold a videoconference with Bihar Chief Minister Nitish > Kumar. > > Another reason behind the current visit is to receive the Indira > Gandhi Prize for Peace, Disarmament and Development on behalf of his > foundation, being recognised for "pioneering and exemplary > philanthropic work around the world and in India in health". > > As of July, the foundation has committed nearly $1 billion for health > and development projects in India. Globally, it has committed nearly > $12 billion in grants for global health, the foundation claimed in a > statement. > _______________________________________________ > commons-law mailing list > commons-law at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/commons-law From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Sun Jul 26 15:48:49 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:48:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <842921.52702.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <745765.7826.qm@web94707.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Just a question, what makes ones statement so general and simplistic specially when it comes to interpretating individual's motives. A job at the Indian army or any force is quite lucrative. .. .. . . . .  .. . . ................................................   ________________________________ From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi To: anupam chakravartty Cc: sarai list Sent: Friday, 24 July, 2009 1:28:51 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination Dear Anupam, and all on readers list, basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in defence of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation protecting the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, accepted with humility or otherwise. Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for the sustainance of the state, few in  ungrateful in Kashmir state are still craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic religious overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as oppressing power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this dissent is tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a situation army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border terror does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements and foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach violence, but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for violence in all faiths. Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not to be employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency at borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the inhuman acts of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside religious robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type of civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera living in Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, thanks to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers and in retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power seekers who sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, least bothered about real governance in the state. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list can > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further one cause. > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such possibilities which > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such activities, why > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and Manipur by > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it there are > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and kashmir? what > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, manipur and > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in uniform > or > uniformed men? > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since there > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass execution or > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses idea of > using > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? how many > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting comfortably > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down with > such > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's not only > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it impossible > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind such > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 26 16:42:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:12:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Unique_IDs_to_deliver_goods_from_D?= =?windows-1252?q?ec_=9209-166?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40907260412v2d286c4en1f63d916d9df338c@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3692984,prtpage-1.cms Unique IDs to deliver goods from Dec ’09 10 Nov 2008, 0203 hrs IST, Rajeev Jayaswal, ET Bureau NEW DELHI: The government is planning to issue a unique identification (ID) to every citizen from December 2009, which would help it in better governance, including targeting kerosene, cooking gas, food, fertiliser, education and electricity subsidies. The task of creating the database may soon be entrusted to the proposed agency — UID Authority of India (UIDAI). “UID would eventually pave way for the smart card system, a proposed subsidy delivery mechanism, that would usher in a targeted subsidy regime. It will also help in identifying citizens, a move to counter terrorism from across the border” an official, who asked not to be identified, told ET. A committee of secretaries (CoS) has proposed to set up UIDAI by December 2008. Consequently, UID would be available for use by an initial set of authorised users by December 2009, he added. The subsidy amount would be directly credited to the individual smart card owners and that could be redeemed at authorised suppliers like fair price shops, kerosene or cooking gas (LPG) dealers or fertiliser outlets. The move is on the lines of the Eleventh Five Year Plan (2007-12). According to the Plan document, the smart card would have a memory partitioned into distinct modules representing different entitlement groups for which free services or implicit/explicit subsidies are given. These include food and nutrition, energy (kerosene, LPG, electricity), education services, health services, civic amenities and services (drinking water, toilets/sanitation), employment (National Rural Employment Guarantee) and economic/farming (fertiliser, irrigation water, MSP). It is likely that the government may form an empowered group of ministers (E-GoM) that would approve constitution of UIDAI as proposed by the CoS. A similar structure is proposed at states level. “Initially, the body would be constituted through an executive order and later it would be invested with statutory authority, if needed,” the official said. The UIDAI would create its initial database from the electoral roll and electoral photo identity card (EPIC). The data would later be authenticated through the below poverty line (BPL) and public distribution system (PDS) data. It is likely that the Central authority of UIDAI would be established under the Planning Commission as it is the only agency that deals with most of the central departments, states and union territories. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 26 17:18:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:48:53 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Creating database UIDAI's main task: Nilekani- 167 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907260448y76e98bdeld129e254c8b8e2f7@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, >From a War to a reflection on that war, from suggestions to recommendations, from recommendations to feasibility studies, from feasibility studies to planning and then to policy and finally to a Mask, in the last ten years, it seems, the story of national identity card in India has come a long way. Beginning from the Kargil War and thereafter to a group of men assigned to find the reasons which led to this war, who would have thought that a small recommendation by a committee constituted exactly ten years ago, on 29th July 1999 would lead to the creation of a mask in the name of- Nandan Nilekani . The Kargil Review Committee also called the Subrahmanyam Committee, which was chaired by K Subrahmanyam with other members being B.G Verghese Satish Chandra and K.K. Hazari. K Subrahmanyam, a former director of IDSA. B.G Verghese, a senior journalist both were members of National Security Council Advisory Board [NSCAB]. K Subrahmanyam, was also the convener of NSCAB. Earlier, on 3rd May 1999, Satish Chandra, a 1965 batch IFS officer, was made Chairman of Joint Intelligence Committee, Cabinet Secretariat as Secretary of the National Security Council Secretariat. While Lieutenant General (Retd.) K.K. Hazari, was a former Vice Chief of Army Staff. Nandan is just playing a role. A small but significant part, of that of a mask. He is merely a face. A face which tells us again and again, on every platform, using every available source of mass communication that we need to be numbered. The important thing is that we have to think and reflect and question and inquire deeply about a small recommendation buried deep inside the 228 page report. In the Executive Summary of the KRC under the heading, Civil- Military Liaison, it was suggested under a subject head called - steps [to] be taken to issue ID Cards to border villagers in certain vulnerable areas on a priority basis, pending its extension to other or all parts of the State’. The committee further urged that a policy like this ’would also be relevant in the North-East, Sikkim and part of West Bengal’. Executive Summary of the Kargil Review Committee Report as presented in Rajya Sabha, 25 Feburary, 2000. Recommendations. Civil Military Liaison- http://rajyasabha.nic.in/25indi1.htm#8 If this was initially suggested by KRC then whose intelligent idea was it to encompass the whole nation? Why spend so much amount of money? Why is a national ID card increasingly appearing like a gross transfer of money to the IT sector? All of course invoked in the name of poor. All of course done for the good of all. While initially the idea was mooted under Civil- Military Liaison. While the idea came up a suggestion to thwart Kargil-like situation. Who war is UIDAI fighting? Pretty ironic, isn't it? Warm regards Taha Creating database UIDAI's main task: Nilekani http://www.igovernment.in/site/Creating-database-UIDAIs-main-task-Nilekani/ Creating database UIDAI's main task: Nilekani The database will help government in issuing unique identity cards to each of the country's 1.17 billion people Creating database UIDAI's main task: Nilekani The database will help government in issuing unique identity cards to each of the country's 1.17 billion people Published on 7/23/2009 1:09:58 PM New Delhi: The main task of the Unique Identification Database Authority of India (UIDAI) would be to create a database that will help in issuing unique identity cards to each of the country's 1.17 billion people, authority Chairman Nandan Nilekani said here on Thursday. Nilekani who took charge as the Chairman of the Unique Identification Database Authority of India today said this will be a nationwide system of authentication. "Identity is important for everyone, especially for the poor. Getting an identity is a tough job. We will provide a database of residents. We will have a very simple database in biometrics. We will only have very basic information," he added. Nilekani said that the authority will not issue the biometric cards itself - but the database it is creating will help government agencies to undertake that task, reports IANS. The main purpose of the project, he said, was to avert the need for multiple proofs of identity for citizens while availing any government service, or for private needs like opening bank accounts or seeking telephone connections. It is also expected to enhance national security by helping to identify illegal aliens. Nilekani has already met Communications and Information Technology Minister A Raja and Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia, seeking their support for the project. Over the next few weeks, he intends to create the requisite administrative infrastructure to deal with the ambitious project. "We will pick up talent from both government and outside. We will also have biometric experts and others for security and identity management," he said. From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Sun Jul 26 20:58:31 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:58:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [faowindia] film program on 31st July Message-ID: <345996.97684.qm@web94716.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Queer Nazaria Friday 31st July 2009 @ 6.30 pm Alliance Française de Bombay - 40 Theosophy Hall - Marine Lines, Mumbai,Maharashtra 400020 This film program is a teaser to relish before the Queer Azaadi Mumbai March on 16thAugust, which kicks off at August Kranti Maidan in which we will celebrate diversity and proudly state 'hum sab ek hai'. The Queer Azaadi March (QAM) is the collective result of several of Mumbai's very own LGBTI individuals and organizations. This is our home, and QAM is our march together for the freedom of expression of our sexual identities and pride in being ourselves. QAM '09 looks forward marching together with our family, friend, supporters and the people of our much loved city toward a better future for Mumbai's queers, for acceptance, tolerance and understanding of our lives and personalities. For more information on on the QAM March visit the blog athttp://queerazaadi. wordpress. com We would like to thank all the artists, producers and distributors for giving us their oeuvres free of cost. We are also thankful to the Alliance Française de Bombay for giving us their auditorium and screening facilities. Without this generosity we wouldn't have been able to bring you these films. The film program takes us to different parts of the world and attempts to look at the queer individual and the LGTBI community in society and society's gaze back. Glancing at this reflected image, the question that manifests asks - is it enough that a society only protects us with a set of rights or do we also need the freedom to act as who we are within that society. Legal recognition and human rights are very important but social acceptance is equally, if not more, crucial. These films will extend this essential idea of acceptance to include our sexuality, our gender presentation, our choice of sex work as livelihood, and how we love. After each film there will be an informal discussion to share points of view amongst the audience. ________________________________ Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent ActivityVisit Your Group Yahoo! News Fashion News What's the word on fashion and style? New business? Get new customers. List your web site in Yahoo! Search. Yahoo! Groups Cats Group Join a group for cat owners like you . __,_._,___ Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local..yahoo.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jul 26 23:27:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:57:59 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 In-Reply-To: <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> References: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907261057y607d2fcdtb4bfdf6df07cc7e7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Patrice, Dear Jeebesh and Dear All, The sense which I got from going throgh the views presented by Edward was- that the current capacity for material production of cards do not match the intended demand which would be created by UIDC. However I think, given that Edward does not cite any evidence or a definitive industry study which suggests that such a demand will not be met under any circumstances then could one not for a moment assume the opposite too? If it is just of matter of conjecture, that is. Therefore might it not be so that in coming months, companies could be put up, logistics could be arranged, and manpower could be assigned to see to it that the demand or the intended or expected demand is met with? Could Nandan Nilekani not say, a year later, that one year target was a political statement to test what political reaction to such a scheme would be, the real deadline was 'X+' years? Could he not say that he was perhaps misquoted by the media. Could he not suggest the following- The objective was to give the numbers in a years time. That is the first priority. And then ascertain that all the 16 data categories for which the information will be collected is correct. And maybe then give the actual cards. This would be after, much, much later after the NPR is made into a viable, functioning, database. The other argument was regarding SCOSTA, now whether it is an OS or not is a matter of what one perceives an OS to be, if certain sections of the the government of India feels that it needs to categorize SCOSTA as an OS then can they be taken to court for this categorization? I do agree, however that the point related to error in data entry, error in delivery, and error in verification of people is a cause for grave concern. It must be a cause for grave concern to all sections of society. @Jeebesh- Could you please elaborate on what you meant by -something- in your Thank you reply to Patrice? Warm regards Taha From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jul 27 01:21:21 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:51:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Blame it on those who founded the 'gun culture' in the valley at the behest of their Pakistani masters.Today, Kashmir that had almost 'zero' crime rate till the onset of pan Islamism inspired terrorism in 1989-90, has become synonymous with 'death' & 'destruction'. It is a pity that the protagnists of the macabre 'death & destruction' drama in Kashmir enjoy a fan following on this forum too & that brutalisation of Kashmiri society has been allowed in the name of jihad for 'so called azadi'....???... Regards all LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:18:53 +0530 > From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com > To: yousufism at gmail.com; rashneek at gmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) > > If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by > surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by > protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in the > last few months. A man was recently murdered, found with a hundred rupee > note stuffed into his mouth. None of these merited protests. > > Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > > > > From: M Yousuf > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 > > To: rashneek kher > > Cc: reader-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > > Kashmir) > > > > It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement > > after > almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the > > promptness > now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement > > issued > about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe > > to > find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were > > from > some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be > > advisable > for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and > > seek Syed > Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital > > jail > where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream > > pro-India > politicians. > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI > Sathu Barbar Shah, > > Srinagar - 190001 > email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com > > Dated : 29.06.2009 > > PRESS > > RELEASE > > SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > SAMITI > SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS > > > > Srinagar, 29 > > June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council > of Kashmiri Pandit > > SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at > the meeting deliberated on > > events surrounding the gang rape and murder > of two young women in > > Shopian. > Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and > > inhuman > act allegedly committed by members of the police force who > > are > supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members > were > > visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the > Kashmir police > > officials as has been found in the enquiry. > > The KPSS also condemns the > > initial cover-up by local administrative > officials in Shopian that led to an > > incorrect initial assessment of > the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly > > the initial press > briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir > > Range, > was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of > the > > SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all > these acts of > > ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and > condemned by the Justice Jan > > Commission. > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for > > their > determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. > > KPSS further > > stated that the state government has not carried out full > inquiries into other > > previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar > Bahi, etc. where it is still > > unclear if various criminal acts were > committed by security personnel or > > militants. The SAMITI recalls the > failure of State authorities in > > investigating the horrific acts of > rape and brutal murders of the Braroo > > family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati > Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in > > 1994 in their house at > Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were > > raped in front > of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That > > case was > all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the > > Braroo > home knew the culprit but police still did not act. > > The KPSS is > > critical of both mainstream and separatist political > parties for politicizing > > some acts of criminality, violence, and human > rights abuses while conveniently > > ignoring other similar cases that too > require attention and justice. The > > Samiti stated that the latest > shameful incident has once again put the honor > > of all Kashmiri women - > without cast, creed or religion - at stake as > > authorities and leaders > of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and > > defend the > dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe > > no > Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough > against > > perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such > horrific acts in the > > recent past be it in the hands of security forces > or by militants. > > The > > credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands > that > > following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be > served > > immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency > and all guilty > > personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law > and receive the > > harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest > of rare cases.² > > The > > Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people > programs by > > responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest > and compel the state > > government to take stern action against culprits > irrespective of their stature > > in the society or official rank. The > SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri > > citizens that include > professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central > > government > organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² > > until > the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, > > shopkeepers, > transporters and other public institutions should hoist small > > black > flags until the justice is done. > > KPSS strongly believes that rapist and > > killers can never be the > masters and protectors of any civilized > > society. > > KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section > > of > society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. > > Sanjay K > > .Tickoo > President, KPSS > +91 9906564741 > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > *It has a message for separtists > > but more importantly for their bleeding > > heart sympathesizers,some of them > > are here too....* > > > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to > > carry this release in > > their papers. > > > > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > SAMITI* > > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > > email: > > kpss.kashmir@ > > gmail.com< > > > > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > > > > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > > > *Press Release* > > > > > > > > *(Separatists silence over > > Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > > > > > In recent months killings > > of some members of Kashmiri Society > > erupted violence all over the Valley and > > was supported by the Separatists > > organization, through every such act on > > Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > > But > > the way the Separatists Leadership > > keeps silence over the atrocities done > > by > > the militants who obviously > > belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > > > There is no > > ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of > > two persons at Keller, > > Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > > that > > the Separatist > > Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > > kind of act by > > the militants. > > > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World > > Communities that > > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early > > militancy period > > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on > > the name of being > > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout > > the world by them > > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master > > minded by then > > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > > > > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - > > cum - > > Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > > we > > categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and > > > > dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not come > > > > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own cadres on > > > > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility will > > > > remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to them > > > > sympathetically. > > > > Further, we invite the kind attention of > > European Diplomats and > > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve > > the dispute between the > > two nations and have access to Separatist > > Organizations to take a serious > > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri > > Leaders over the innocent > > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and > > in present. > > > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign > > Diplomats along > > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind > > and valuable > > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist > > Leadership on such > > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > > > > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > > Kashmir who > > are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > > Force(s) but > > least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > > sympathizers. > > > > > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > > present > > scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > > Pockets > > so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > > un-scrupulous > > elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > > > > > *President* > > > > *+91-9906564741* > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > ___________________________ > > ______________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List > > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Share your memories online with anyone you want. http://www.microsoft.com/india/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 10:11:30 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:11:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where is Kashmir's conscience? Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907262141t4aaea76dkcbce015416e1db33@mail.gmail.com> *Where is Kashmir's conscience?* Tushar Srivastava Times of India Sunday July 26, 2009 http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Free-Kick/entry/where-is-kashmir-s-conscience2 Is Kashmir's conscience dead? The answer, most definitely, seems yes. Recently, J&K CM Omar Abdullah hit the nail on its head when he lashed out at the separatists for their silence on the killing of a three-year-old by terrorists. Why separatists alone, the whole of Kashmir should answer this question. Really, where are the protests now? Where is the Valley's anger – so visible, at the drop of a hat, all these years? Why, all of a sudden, has Kashmir forgotten to take to the streets -- stones in hands and tears in eyes? The same Kashmir, which burned with rage over the rape-cum-murder of two women in Shopian, has its eyes closed when the perpetrators of the crime are terrorists. Don't get me wrong, no one is condoning the brutality in Shopian. Anyone who outrages the modesty of women shouldn't go unpunished. But what about these double standards? How about a little anger against the terrorists from across the border who have killed anywhere between 65,000 to 1,00,000 people since 1989? All in the name of freedom? In an indirect attack on the separatists at a function in Srinagar, Omar said: "They prominently organize marches and give ‘chalo calls' to highlight violation of human rights...These elements resort to politics of hypocrisy." Fairness, morality and respect for human rights demand these elements should raise same voice whenever terrorists kill civilians, he said. Bang on, Mr Abdullah. Or do human rights apply to terrorists alone? Maybe. The Shopian incident has resulted in prolonged protests. At the same time, the killings by terrorists have continued unabated. They, of course, go unnoticed. Why this anger against security forces and cops only? Against those same security men who, away from their families, are risking their lives to protect Kashmir? Why no thought before damaging public authority, before attacking the people who are there to protect them? The suffering doesn't seem to end. Repeated terror attacks have happened in Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. No point mentioning which country these attacks are coming from. And all in the name of Kashmir. It's time the same Kashmir lends the country a hand. It's time the same Kashmir raises its voice as loud and clear as it raises it against the security forces. Quiet aptly, Omar's comments came on a day when SC questioned the Jammu & Kashmir High Court's order to arrest police officers for their alleged involvement in Shopian rape-cum-murder. The court also rapped the high court for its direction that the bail plea of the accused cops be filed only before it. The SC Bench said: “Anybody can be arrested. Anybody who has nothing to do with this case can be arrested. What material was there for arrest? Even now, they (state) have been unable to produce the material." With power comes responsibility. If some jawans and policemen were involved in a heinous crime, they shouldn't go unpunished. But in no civilized society should action be guided by agitation and protests. And in the meantime, it's time for Kashmir as well to show some responsibility. And for our politicians to shed some hypocrisy. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 10:55:48 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:55:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where is Kashmir's conscience? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907262141t4aaea76dkcbce015416e1db33@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907262141t4aaea76dkcbce015416e1db33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907262225nf3782beh2652d69952381343@mail.gmail.com> The people in the Valley are living in fear from terrorists. Any one who does so is marked and done away with. Omar Abdullah can do so as he is a politician and has Z category security. If you had followed the track record of Human Rights activists, they invariably come to the rescue of terroists. Double standards has always been the name of the game, especially in politics and I wonder what would have been the stance of Omar Abdullah had he been sitting in the opposition. Murali V On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > *Where is Kashmir's conscience?* > Tushar Srivastava > Times of India Sunday July 26, 2009 > > > http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Free-Kick/entry/where-is-kashmir-s-conscience2 > > Is Kashmir's conscience dead? The answer, most definitely, seems yes. > Recently, J&K CM Omar Abdullah hit the nail on its head when he lashed out > at the separatists for their silence on the killing of a three-year-old by > terrorists. > > Why separatists alone, the whole of Kashmir should answer this question. > Really, where are the protests now? Where is the Valley's anger – so > visible, at the drop of a hat, all these years? Why, all of a sudden, has > Kashmir forgotten to take to the streets -- stones in hands and tears in > eyes? The same Kashmir, which burned with rage over the rape-cum-murder of > two women in Shopian, has its eyes closed when the perpetrators of the > crime > are terrorists. > > Don't get me wrong, no one is condoning the brutality in Shopian. Anyone > who > outrages the modesty of women shouldn't go unpunished. But what about these > double standards? How about a little anger against the terrorists from > across the border who have killed anywhere between 65,000 to 1,00,000 > people > since 1989? All in the name of freedom? > > In an indirect attack on the separatists at a function in Srinagar, Omar > said: "They prominently organize marches and give ‘chalo calls' to > highlight > violation of human rights...These elements resort to politics of > hypocrisy." > Fairness, morality and respect for human rights demand these elements > should > raise same voice whenever terrorists kill civilians, he said. > > Bang on, Mr Abdullah. Or do human rights apply to terrorists alone? Maybe. > The Shopian incident has resulted in prolonged protests. At the same time, > the killings by terrorists have continued unabated. They, of course, go > unnoticed. Why this anger against security forces and cops only? Against > those same security men who, away from their families, are risking their > lives to protect Kashmir? Why no thought before damaging public authority, > before attacking the people who are there to protect them? > > The suffering doesn't seem to end. Repeated terror attacks have happened in > Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. No point mentioning which country these > attacks are coming from. And all in the name of Kashmir. It's time the same > Kashmir lends the country a hand. It's time the same Kashmir raises its > voice as loud and clear as it raises it against the security forces. > > Quiet aptly, Omar's comments came on a day when SC questioned the Jammu & > Kashmir High Court's order to arrest police officers for their alleged > involvement in Shopian rape-cum-murder. The court also rapped the high > court > for its direction that the bail plea of the accused cops be filed only > before it. The SC Bench said: “Anybody can be arrested. Anybody who has > nothing to do with this case can be arrested. What material was there for > arrest? Even now, they (state) have been unable to produce the material." > > With power comes responsibility. If some jawans and policemen were involved > in a heinous crime, they shouldn't go unpunished. But in no civilized > society should action be guided by agitation and protests. And in the > meantime, it's time for Kashmir as well to show some responsibility. And > for > our politicians to shed some hypocrisy. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 11:32:06 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:32:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Indian Men Are Still Boys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907262302t751a9739qa187d8e7cf331ff1@mail.gmail.com> Is this only true for Indian men? I thought it was a universal phenomenon On 7/25/09, Chandni Parekh wrote: > > To read the full story: > > http://psychologynews.posterous.com/why-indian-men-are-still-boys > > Excerpts from a Tehelka article by Nisha Susan: > > Evidence is, the urban Indian male hasn’t really changed. He is cocooned as > he has always been in a sort of prolonged infantilism – a hatchery > protected > by doting mothers, fathers, sisters, girlfriends, and society itself. > > Changed rules, changed expectations and zero preparedness. He paints a > picture of utter pathos. “If I am supposed to cook, why can’t I cry? We men > are constantly guessing. Am I supposed to pay for dinner or not? We have > nothing to go on — you just patch something your girlfriend told you with > something you saw on Star World and hope to get by!” > > THERE seems to be a simple equation between parents and the drought of > responsible, responsive Indian men. In the homes of People Like Us, young > boys do not automatically learn to cook or even to be grateful to those who > cook for them. They are rarely taught to anticipate other people’s needs. > > Young Indian men routinely brutalise incoming juniors in colleges and > justify it as tradition or socialising. Stripping, beatings, ritual > humiliation, the eating of shit and licking of toilets, sodomy – everyone > has a story. Worryingly, these stories are told with a grin. > > When an Indian man goes away from home (if at all he does) he is almost > entirely unprepared to look after himself. Indian university towns such as > Pune, for instance, are full of well-heeled young teenage boys housed with > cook-cum-major-domos to clean up after them. Young women in Indian metros > often refuse to visit their male contemporaries’ homes, sure that there > will > be no towels, no furniture and no food. > > From the moment they can walk, Indian men are taught to provide but not > feel. Taught to command, not empathise. Taught to expect subservience not > companionship. Taught, most damagingly, to repudiate their emotions. Their > inner life. Their capacity for variety. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Meera From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 13:30:33 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:30:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where is Kashmir's conscience? In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907262225nf3782beh2652d69952381343@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907262141t4aaea76dkcbce015416e1db33@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907262225nf3782beh2652d69952381343@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907270100n148aa7dbx669a0b5519a74f40@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, the behaviour of Mehbooba Mufti in the assembly session of state betrays her inclination to violence and she is craving for power at any cost, the sole purpose of her acts being to discredit the rule of laws and ushering in her talibanic laws.She repeatedly says she would go for tit for tat and will not hesitate to breed violence, which surprises all right thinking citizens, when she has to be brought undser rule of laws for invoking violence for her private purpose of to be law herself, not the servant of people who elected her.! It is her father Mufti who got the release of his daugther. Rabeena sayeed from hijacked aircraft at the cost of the nation, mufti being the mask of hizbulla, Congress did not hesitate to share power with this PDP and now is with NC in power. Why talk of conscience and ethics or morals in politics when none are seen at work.? Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Murali V wrote: > The people in the Valley are living in fear from terrorists. Any one who > does so is marked and done away with. Omar Abdullah can do so as he is a > politician and has Z category security. > If you had followed the track record of Human Rights activists, they > invariably come to the rescue of terroists. > > Double standards has always been the name of the game, especially in > politics and I wonder what would have been the stance of Omar Abdullah had > he been sitting in the opposition. > > Murali V > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Pawan Durani >wrote: > > > *Where is Kashmir's conscience?* > > Tushar Srivastava > > Times of India Sunday July 26, 2009 > > > > > > > http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Free-Kick/entry/where-is-kashmir-s-conscience2 > > > > Is Kashmir's conscience dead? The answer, most definitely, seems yes. > > Recently, J&K CM Omar Abdullah hit the nail on its head when he lashed > out > > at the separatists for their silence on the killing of a three-year-old > by > > terrorists. > > > > Why separatists alone, the whole of Kashmir should answer this question. > > Really, where are the protests now? Where is the Valley's anger – so > > visible, at the drop of a hat, all these years? Why, all of a sudden, has > > Kashmir forgotten to take to the streets -- stones in hands and tears in > > eyes? The same Kashmir, which burned with rage over the rape-cum-murder > of > > two women in Shopian, has its eyes closed when the perpetrators of the > > crime > > are terrorists. > > > > Don't get me wrong, no one is condoning the brutality in Shopian. Anyone > > who > > outrages the modesty of women shouldn't go unpunished. But what about > these > > double standards? How about a little anger against the terrorists from > > across the border who have killed anywhere between 65,000 to 1,00,000 > > people > > since 1989? All in the name of freedom? > > > > In an indirect attack on the separatists at a function in Srinagar, Omar > > said: "They prominently organize marches and give ‘chalo calls' to > > highlight > > violation of human rights...These elements resort to politics of > > hypocrisy." > > Fairness, morality and respect for human rights demand these elements > > should > > raise same voice whenever terrorists kill civilians, he said. > > > > Bang on, Mr Abdullah. Or do human rights apply to terrorists alone? > Maybe. > > The Shopian incident has resulted in prolonged protests. At the same > time, > > the killings by terrorists have continued unabated. They, of course, go > > unnoticed. Why this anger against security forces and cops only? Against > > those same security men who, away from their families, are risking their > > lives to protect Kashmir? Why no thought before damaging public > authority, > > before attacking the people who are there to protect them? > > > > The suffering doesn't seem to end. Repeated terror attacks have happened > in > > Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. No point mentioning which country these > > attacks are coming from. And all in the name of Kashmir. It's time the > same > > Kashmir lends the country a hand. It's time the same Kashmir raises its > > voice as loud and clear as it raises it against the security forces. > > > > Quiet aptly, Omar's comments came on a day when SC questioned the Jammu & > > Kashmir High Court's order to arrest police officers for their alleged > > involvement in Shopian rape-cum-murder. The court also rapped the high > > court > > for its direction that the bail plea of the accused cops be filed only > > before it. The SC Bench said: “Anybody can be arrested. Anybody who has > > nothing to do with this case can be arrested. What material was there for > > arrest? Even now, they (state) have been unable to produce the material." > > > > With power comes responsibility. If some jawans and policemen were > involved > > in a heinous crime, they shouldn't go unpunished. But in no civilized > > society should action be guided by agitation and protests. And in the > > meantime, it's time for Kashmir as well to show some responsibility. And > > for > > our politicians to shed some hypocrisy. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 13:40:59 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:40:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where is Kashmir's conscience? In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907270100n148aa7dbx669a0b5519a74f40@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907262141t4aaea76dkcbce015416e1db33@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907262225nf3782beh2652d69952381343@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907270100n148aa7dbx669a0b5519a74f40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907270110m6f6a9badn82e339eecca790e2@mail.gmail.com> And the sickular India , knowing well that it was Mufti Sayed , who engineered violence against Hindus of AnantnAg in 1986 , made him the Home Minister of India to please the minorty community as if there was dearth of other more capables among minorities. The breeding ground for these politicians are the sickulars and the so called liberals of our society. Mehbooba is just a moderate face of a fanatic mindset . Pawan On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All, > > the behaviour of Mehbooba Mufti in the assembly session of state betrays > her inclination to violence and she is craving for power at any cost, the > sole purpose of her acts being to discredit the rule of laws and ushering in > her talibanic laws.She repeatedly says she would go for tit for tat and will > not hesitate to breed violence, which surprises all right thinking citizens, > when she has to be brought undser rule of laws for invoking violence for her > private purpose of to be law herself, not the servant of people who elected > her.! > > It is her father Mufti who got the release of his daugther. Rabeena sayeed > from hijacked aircraft at the cost of the nation, mufti being the mask of > hizbulla, Congress did not hesitate to share power with this PDP and now is > with NC in power. Why talk of conscience and ethics or morals in politics > when none are seen at work.? > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> The people in the Valley are living in fear from terrorists. Any one who >> does so is marked and done away with. Omar Abdullah can do so as he is a >> politician and has Z category security. >> If you had followed the track record of Human Rights activists, they >> invariably come to the rescue of terroists. >> >> Double standards has always been the name of the game, especially in >> politics and I wonder what would have been the stance of Omar Abdullah had >> he been sitting in the opposition. >> >> Murali V >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Pawan Durani > >wrote: >> >> > *Where is Kashmir's conscience?* >> > Tushar Srivastava >> > Times of India Sunday July 26, 2009 >> > >> > >> > >> http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Free-Kick/entry/where-is-kashmir-s-conscience2 >> > >> > Is Kashmir's conscience dead? The answer, most definitely, seems yes. >> > Recently, J&K CM Omar Abdullah hit the nail on its head when he lashed >> out >> > at the separatists for their silence on the killing of a three-year-old >> by >> > terrorists. >> > >> > Why separatists alone, the whole of Kashmir should answer this question. >> > Really, where are the protests now? Where is the Valley's anger – so >> > visible, at the drop of a hat, all these years? Why, all of a sudden, >> has >> > Kashmir forgotten to take to the streets -- stones in hands and tears in >> > eyes? The same Kashmir, which burned with rage over the rape-cum-murder >> of >> > two women in Shopian, has its eyes closed when the perpetrators of the >> > crime >> > are terrorists. >> > >> > Don't get me wrong, no one is condoning the brutality in Shopian. Anyone >> > who >> > outrages the modesty of women shouldn't go unpunished. But what about >> these >> > double standards? How about a little anger against the terrorists from >> > across the border who have killed anywhere between 65,000 to 1,00,000 >> > people >> > since 1989? All in the name of freedom? >> > >> > In an indirect attack on the separatists at a function in Srinagar, Omar >> > said: "They prominently organize marches and give ‘chalo calls' to >> > highlight >> > violation of human rights...These elements resort to politics of >> > hypocrisy." >> > Fairness, morality and respect for human rights demand these elements >> > should >> > raise same voice whenever terrorists kill civilians, he said. >> > >> > Bang on, Mr Abdullah. Or do human rights apply to terrorists alone? >> Maybe. >> > The Shopian incident has resulted in prolonged protests. At the same >> time, >> > the killings by terrorists have continued unabated. They, of course, go >> > unnoticed. Why this anger against security forces and cops only? Against >> > those same security men who, away from their families, are risking their >> > lives to protect Kashmir? Why no thought before damaging public >> authority, >> > before attacking the people who are there to protect them? >> > >> > The suffering doesn't seem to end. Repeated terror attacks have happened >> in >> > Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. No point mentioning which country these >> > attacks are coming from. And all in the name of Kashmir. It's time the >> same >> > Kashmir lends the country a hand. It's time the same Kashmir raises its >> > voice as loud and clear as it raises it against the security forces. >> > >> > Quiet aptly, Omar's comments came on a day when SC questioned the Jammu >> & >> > Kashmir High Court's order to arrest police officers for their alleged >> > involvement in Shopian rape-cum-murder. The court also rapped the high >> > court >> > for its direction that the bail plea of the accused cops be filed only >> > before it. The SC Bench said: “Anybody can be arrested. Anybody who has >> > nothing to do with this case can be arrested. What material was there >> for >> > arrest? Even now, they (state) have been unable to produce the >> material." >> > >> > With power comes responsibility. If some jawans and policemen were >> involved >> > in a heinous crime, they shouldn't go unpunished. But in no civilized >> > society should action be guided by agitation and protests. And in the >> > meantime, it's time for Kashmir as well to show some responsibility. And >> > for >> > our politicians to shed some hypocrisy. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 13:44:49 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:44:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907261057y607d2fcdtb4bfdf6df07cc7e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907261057y607d2fcdtb4bfdf6df07cc7e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907270114v661248d4i9968df373f6fb0a8@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, and Taha, even when the starting point is incorrect, say the data bank of LPG users, driving licences, BPL cards, I see the positive aspects of it, that these datas can be corrected and the project carried forward, as we all know how the fanatic illegal immigrents are encouraged to get the voters id, ration cards and other id proofs to escape the scrutiny of law keepers and ofcourse the human errors and human greed does not exempt anyone in making mstakes in the process ? As to expenditure, every native of India, a new born or about to die individual, is already indebted to the world, thanks to the federal state, to a sum varying from Rs.7000/- to Rs.11,000/- depending on the State you live in,and central debt of Rs.41,000/- in the books of accounts of the nation, whether one likes it or not,thanks to the system of government borrowal. We have a system where the police and NSG is used to security of "leaders", not citizens, we have funds, not for nation building but for hiding in numbered accounts of honest politicians.! We have distribution of goodies not to those who need irrespective of any caste, faith or region, but only if that individual belongs to a caste, tribe and faith, whether that individual needs it or not.! Regards, Rajen. Regards, Rajen. On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Patrice, Dear Jeebesh and Dear All, > > The sense which I got from going throgh the views presented by Edward > was- that the current capacity for material production of cards do not > match the intended demand which would be created by UIDC. > > However I think, given that Edward does not cite any evidence or a > definitive industry study which suggests that such a demand will not > be met under any circumstances then could one not for a moment assume > the opposite too? If it is just of matter of conjecture, that is. > > Therefore might it not be so that in coming months, companies could > be put up, logistics could be arranged, and manpower could be assigned > to see to it that the demand or the intended or expected demand is met > with? Could Nandan Nilekani not say, a year later, that one year > target was a political statement to test what political reaction to > such a scheme would be, the real deadline was 'X+' years? > > Could he not say that he was perhaps misquoted by the media. Could he > not suggest the following- The objective was to give the numbers in a > years time. That is the first priority. And then ascertain that all > the 16 data categories for which the information will be collected is > correct. And maybe then give the actual cards. This would be after, > much, much later after the NPR is made into a viable, functioning, > database. > > The other argument was regarding SCOSTA, now whether it is an OS or > not is a matter of what one perceives an OS to be, if certain sections > of the the government of India feels that it needs to categorize > SCOSTA as an OS then can they be taken to court for this > categorization? > > I do agree, however that the point related to error in data entry, > error in delivery, and error in verification of people is a cause for > grave concern. It must be a cause for grave concern to all sections of > society. > > @Jeebesh- > > Could you please elaborate on what you meant by -something- in your > Thank you reply to Patrice? > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From vizylac at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 14:26:56 2009 From: vizylac at yahoo.com (Khan Akif) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:26:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] HRD appoints panel to probe charges against AMU top brass In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907270114v661248d4i9968df373f6fb0a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <629443.45731.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> HRD appoints panel to probe charges against AMU top brass Anubhuti Vishnoi Posted online: Saturday , Jul 25, 2009 at 0451 hrs New Delhi : The Human Resource Development (HRD) Ministry has appointed a two-member committee to hold a full Visitor inquiry into the “affairs of the Aligarh Muslim University”. The two-member committee will have on board retired Justice Fakhruddin from the Madhya Pradesh High Court and A H Jung, a retired Indian Audits & Accounts Service officer who also served as secretary, civil aviation. The committee has been given three months time to submit its report on a range of allegations made against the Vice-Chancellor, Registrar and certain tangential authorities of the varsity. “The charges against AMU V-C Prof P K Abdul Azis range from financial bungling to violation of rules and regulations and even a poor academic record, though the latter is not of that much consequence. Since there have been allegations and counter-allegations from amongst the AMU staff, the inquiry will cover a gamut of issues regarding the varsity,” sources confirmed. The Indian Express was the first to report how the President, who is the Visitor to the AMU, issued a showcause notice to the V-C on the various charges levied against him. The V-C’s reply was not found satisfactory by the Visitor who approved a full inquiry against the AMU officials a month back. HRD Minister Kapil Sibal only recently gave the go ahead for the full Visitor inquiry, appointing the committee this week. When contacted, AMU spokesperson Rahat Abrar said, “We have not received any such communication from the ministry as yet. If an inquiry is held, we will co-operate with it fully.” Azis, who took over as AMU V-C in 2007, amid raging campus violence that forced the closure of the varsity, has been embroiled in controversy for more than a year now. Several of AMU’s Executive Council members met President Pratibha Patil recently and complained about the V-C’s conduct, claiming that he had violated all standard financial norms and proprieties during his tenure. They also demanded an inquiry against him. http://www.indianex press.com/ news/HRD- appoints- panel-to- probe-charges- against-AMU- top-brass/ 493945 Akif AhmadNew Delhi Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 27 15:01:05 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:31:05 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907270114v661248d4i9968df373f6fb0a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907261057y607d2fcdtb4bfdf6df07cc7e7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907270114v661248d4i9968df373f6fb0a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907270231yc63dbf9l4d4b6aa525cd1c09@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, There are times when I feel like bowing my head in the honor of your thoughts. The lucidity, the clarity, and the vision of your thoughts is simply breath taking. >even when the starting point is incorrect, say the data bank of LPG users, driving licences, BPL cards, I see the positive aspects of it,> There were times when many people who saw positive aspects of gassing numbered Jews at Auschwitz. Should one go only by positive sides of everything? It's true though that there is a positive side for everything. But aren't there other ways to think besides just positive and/or negative? >that these datas can be corrected and the project carried forward,> And how do you know that this data can be corrected? Did Nandu personally called in to speak with your kind self last night? Maybe it suits some of us on the reader list to do the 'policy talk' not that 'policy talk' is injurious to one's health but then there are others who should be left out from such a conversation, primarily because, it is conjecture, secondly because, it makes little sense to the uninitiated, as such assertions are based on pure assumptions which are not verified at all. I don't know that this data could be corrected that's why I am curious to know how this data could be corrected, if you do know how this data can be corrected then please share with us, plus all the news that one is reading these days indicate that previous lists which are incorrect could be used to give UID numbers to Indians. What hooks me to this data gathering story is not only it present but also its history. We have a history of numbering all sorts of things beginning from 1871 census where survey parties used get beaten up in villages because people were deeply suspicious of them. Come to think of it, since those days we haven't had a single instance of getting all our numbers and our names right. Strange isn't it? That does not certainly mean that one should do away with ration card, PAN card, driving license and so on. Not at all. However that also does not mean that one should be diverting 1.5 lakh crore rupees to create one more database? I am not sure which way the government is going to go on this. But first I wish that the government of India set up a website for UIDAI so that we all know what's happening. Warm regards Taha From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:18:42 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:18:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907270231yc63dbf9l4d4b6aa525cd1c09@mail.gmail.com> References: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907261057y607d2fcdtb4bfdf6df07cc7e7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907270114v661248d4i9968df373f6fb0a8@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907270231yc63dbf9l4d4b6aa525cd1c09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907270248k46b2c08dqb0c9c0c0e616116d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, so you want to have the cake and eat it too, so put my thoughts into straight jacket of nazi , fascist thoughts.? Well, you have your right to think as you feel like, that is freedom of expression.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Rajen, > > There are times when I feel like bowing my head in the honor of your > thoughts. The lucidity, the clarity, and the vision of your thoughts > is simply breath taking. > > >even when the starting point is incorrect, say the data bank of LPG users, > driving licences, BPL cards, I see the positive aspects of it,> > > There were times when many people who saw positive aspects of gassing > numbered Jews at Auschwitz. Should one go only by positive sides of > everything? It's true though that there is a positive side for > everything. But aren't there other ways to think besides just > positive and/or negative? > > >that these datas can be corrected and the project carried forward,> > > And how do you know that this data can be corrected? Did Nandu > personally called in to speak with your kind self last night? > > Maybe it suits some of us on the reader list to do the 'policy talk' > not that 'policy talk' is injurious to one's health but then there are > others who should be left out from such a conversation, primarily > because, it is conjecture, secondly because, it makes little sense to > the uninitiated, as such assertions are based on pure assumptions > which are not verified at all. > > I don't know that this data could be corrected that's why I am curious > to know how this data could be corrected, if you do know how this data > can be corrected then please share with us, plus all the news that > one is reading these days indicate that previous lists which are > incorrect could be used to give UID numbers to Indians. What hooks me > to this data gathering story is not only it present but also its > history. > > We have a history of numbering all sorts of things beginning from 1871 > census where survey parties used get beaten up in villages because > people were deeply suspicious of them. Come to think of it, since > those days we haven't had a single instance of getting all our numbers > and our names right. Strange isn't it? > > That does not certainly mean that one should do away with ration card, > PAN card, driving license and so on. Not at all. However that also > does not mean that one should be diverting 1.5 lakh crore rupees to > create one more database? > > I am not sure which way the government is going to go on this. But > first I wish that the government of India set up a website for UIDAI > so that we all know what's happening. > > Warm regards > > Taha > -- Rajen. From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:27:09 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:27:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Where is Kashmir's conscience? In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907270100n148aa7dbx669a0b5519a74f40@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907262141t4aaea76dkcbce015416e1db33@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907262225nf3782beh2652d69952381343@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907270100n148aa7dbx669a0b5519a74f40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907270257l2f492956pa1dd622673858d0c@mail.gmail.com> Well, what else would you expect? Just look at her surname?!!!!!!! On 7/27/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear All, > > the behaviour of Mehbooba Mufti in the assembly session of state betrays > her inclination to violence and she is craving for power at any cost, the > sole purpose of her acts being to discredit the rule of laws and ushering > in > her talibanic laws.She repeatedly says she would go for tit for tat and > will > not hesitate to breed violence, which surprises all right thinking > citizens, > when she has to be brought undser rule of laws for invoking violence for > her > private purpose of to be law herself, not the servant of people who elected > her.! > > It is her father Mufti who got the release of his daugther. Rabeena sayeed > from hijacked aircraft at the cost of the nation, mufti being the mask of > hizbulla, Congress did not hesitate to share power with this PDP and now is > with NC in power. Why talk of conscience and ethics or morals in politics > when none are seen at work.? > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Murali V > wrote: > > > The people in the Valley are living in fear from terrorists. Any one who > > does so is marked and done away with. Omar Abdullah can do so as he is a > > politician and has Z category security. > > If you had followed the track record of Human Rights activists, they > > invariably come to the rescue of terroists. > > > > Double standards has always been the name of the game, especially in > > politics and I wonder what would have been the stance of Omar Abdullah > had > > he been sitting in the opposition. > > > > Murali V > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Pawan Durani > >wrote: > > > > > *Where is Kashmir's conscience?* > > > Tushar Srivastava > > > Times of India Sunday July 26, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Free-Kick/entry/where-is-kashmir-s-conscience2 > > > > > > Is Kashmir's conscience dead? The answer, most definitely, seems yes. > > > Recently, J&K CM Omar Abdullah hit the nail on its head when he lashed > > out > > > at the separatists for their silence on the killing of a three-year-old > > by > > > terrorists. > > > > > > Why separatists alone, the whole of Kashmir should answer this > question. > > > Really, where are the protests now? Where is the Valley's anger – so > > > visible, at the drop of a hat, all these years? Why, all of a sudden, > has > > > Kashmir forgotten to take to the streets -- stones in hands and tears > in > > > eyes? The same Kashmir, which burned with rage over the rape-cum-murder > > of > > > two women in Shopian, has its eyes closed when the perpetrators of the > > > crime > > > are terrorists. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, no one is condoning the brutality in Shopian. > Anyone > > > who > > > outrages the modesty of women shouldn't go unpunished. But what about > > these > > > double standards? How about a little anger against the terrorists from > > > across the border who have killed anywhere between 65,000 to 1,00,000 > > > people > > > since 1989? All in the name of freedom? > > > > > > In an indirect attack on the separatists at a function in Srinagar, > Omar > > > said: "They prominently organize marches and give ‘chalo calls' to > > > highlight > > > violation of human rights...These elements resort to politics of > > > hypocrisy." > > > Fairness, morality and respect for human rights demand these elements > > > should > > > raise same voice whenever terrorists kill civilians, he said. > > > > > > Bang on, Mr Abdullah. Or do human rights apply to terrorists alone? > > Maybe. > > > The Shopian incident has resulted in prolonged protests. At the same > > time, > > > the killings by terrorists have continued unabated. They, of course, go > > > unnoticed. Why this anger against security forces and cops only? > Against > > > those same security men who, away from their families, are risking > their > > > lives to protect Kashmir? Why no thought before damaging public > > authority, > > > before attacking the people who are there to protect them? > > > > > > The suffering doesn't seem to end. Repeated terror attacks have > happened > > in > > > Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. No point mentioning which country these > > > attacks are coming from. And all in the name of Kashmir. It's time the > > same > > > Kashmir lends the country a hand. It's time the same Kashmir raises its > > > voice as loud and clear as it raises it against the security forces. > > > > > > Quiet aptly, Omar's comments came on a day when SC questioned the Jammu > & > > > Kashmir High Court's order to arrest police officers for their alleged > > > involvement in Shopian rape-cum-murder. The court also rapped the high > > > court > > > for its direction that the bail plea of the accused cops be filed only > > > before it. The SC Bench said: “Anybody can be arrested. Anybody who has > > > nothing to do with this case can be arrested. What material was there > for > > > arrest? Even now, they (state) have been unable to produce the > material." > > > > > > With power comes responsibility. If some jawans and policemen were > > involved > > > in a heinous crime, they shouldn't go unpunished. But in no civilized > > > society should action be guided by agitation and protests. And in the > > > meantime, it's time for Kashmir as well to show some responsibility. > And > > > for > > > our politicians to shed some hypocrisy. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Meera From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:33:47 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:33:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> Hi! Aren't we kind of missing the point here. No death is less important but yes, some deaths ARE less unjust. When criminals kill, it is a heinous crime. But when protectors kill, it is a travesty of justice. And whether you like it or not, there is a difference between the two. Meera On 7/27/09, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > > Blame it on those who founded the 'gun culture' in the valley at the behest > of their Pakistani masters.Today, Kashmir that had almost 'zero' crime rate > till the onset of pan Islamism inspired terrorism in 1989-90, has become > synonymous with 'death' & 'destruction'. It is a pity that the protagnists > of the macabre 'death & destruction' drama in Kashmir enjoy a fan following > on this forum too & that brutalisation of Kashmiri society has been allowed > in the name of jihad for 'so called azadi'....???... > > Regards all > > LA > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:18:53 +0530 > > From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com > > To: yousufism at gmail.com; rashneek at gmail.com > > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > Kashmir) > > > > If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by > > surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by > > protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in > the > > last few months. A man was recently murdered, found with a hundred rupee > > note stuffed into his mouth. None of these merited protests. > > > > Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > > > > > > > From: M Yousuf > > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 > > > To: rashneek kher > > > Cc: reader-list > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > > > Kashmir) > > > > > > It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement > > > after > > almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the > > > promptness > > now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement > > > issued > > about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe > > > to > > find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were > > > from > > some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be > > > advisable > > for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and > > > seek Syed > > Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital > > > jail > > where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream > > > pro-India > > politicians. > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI > > Sathu Barbar Shah, > > > Srinagar - 190001 > > email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com > > > > Dated : 29.06.2009 > > > > PRESS > > > RELEASE > > > > SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > > SAMITI > > SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS > > > > > > > > Srinagar, 29 > > > June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council > > of Kashmiri Pandit > > > SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at > > the meeting deliberated on > > > events surrounding the gang rape and murder > > of two young women in > > > Shopian. > > Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and > > > inhuman > > act allegedly committed by members of the police force who > > > are > > supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members > > were > > > visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the > > Kashmir police > > > officials as has been found in the enquiry. > > > > The KPSS also condemns the > > > initial cover-up by local administrative > > officials in Shopian that led to an > > > incorrect initial assessment of > > the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly > > > the initial press > > briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir > > > Range, > > was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of > > the > > > SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all > > these acts of > > > ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and > > condemned by the Justice Jan > > > Commission. > > > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for > > > their > > determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. > > > > KPSS further > > > stated that the state government has not carried out full > > inquiries into other > > > previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar > > Bahi, etc. where it is still > > > unclear if various criminal acts were > > committed by security personnel or > > > militants. The SAMITI recalls the > > failure of State authorities in > > > investigating the horrific acts of > > rape and brutal murders of the Braroo > > > family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati > > Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in > > > 1994 in their house at > > Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were > > > raped in front > > of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That > > > case was > > all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the > > > Braroo > > home knew the culprit but police still did not act. > > > > The KPSS is > > > critical of both mainstream and separatist political > > parties for politicizing > > > some acts of criminality, violence, and human > > rights abuses while conveniently > > > ignoring other similar cases that too > > require attention and justice. The > > > Samiti stated that the latest > > shameful incident has once again put the honor > > > of all Kashmiri women - > > without cast, creed or religion - at stake as > > > authorities and leaders > > of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and > > > defend the > > dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe > > > no > > Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough > > against > > > perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such > > horrific acts in the > > > recent past be it in the hands of security forces > > or by militants. > > > > The > > > credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands > > that > > > following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be > > served > > > immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency > > and all guilty > > > personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law > > and receive the > > > harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest > > of rare cases.² > > > > The > > > Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people > > programs by > > > responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest > > and compel the state > > > government to take stern action against culprits > > irrespective of their stature > > > in the society or official rank. The > > SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri > > > citizens that include > > professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central > > > government > > organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² > > > until > > the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, > > > shopkeepers, > > transporters and other public institutions should hoist small > > > black > > flags until the justice is done. > > > > KPSS strongly believes that rapist and > > > killers can never be the > > masters and protectors of any civilized > > > society. > > > > KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section > > > of > > society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. > > > > Sanjay K > > > .Tickoo > > President, KPSS > > +91 9906564741 > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, > > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > *It has a message for separtists > > > but more importantly for their bleeding > > > heart sympathesizers,some of them > > > are here too....* > > > > > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to > > > carry this release in > > > their papers. > > > > > > > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > > SAMITI* > > > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > > > email: > > > kpss.kashmir@ > > > gmail.com< > > > > > > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > > > > > *Press Release* > > > > > > > > > > > > *(Separatists silence over > > > Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > > > > > > > > > In recent months killings > > > of some members of Kashmiri Society > > > erupted violence all over the Valley and > > > was supported by the Separatists > > > organization, through every such act on > > > Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > > > But > > > the way the Separatists Leadership > > > keeps silence over the atrocities done > > > by > > > the militants who obviously > > > belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > > > > > There is no > > > ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of > > > two persons at Keller, > > > Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > > > that > > > the Separatist > > > Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > > > kind of act by > > > the militants. > > > > > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World > > > Communities that > > > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early > > > militancy period > > > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on > > > the name of being > > > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout > > > the world by them > > > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master > > > minded by then > > > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > > > > > > > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - > > > cum - > > > Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > > > we > > > categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and > > > > > > dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not > come > > > > > > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own > cadres on > > > > > > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility > will > > > > > > remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to > them > > > > > > sympathetically. > > > > > > Further, we invite the kind attention of > > > European Diplomats and > > > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve > > > the dispute between the > > > two nations and have access to Separatist > > > Organizations to take a serious > > > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri > > > Leaders over the innocent > > > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and > > > in present. > > > > > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign > > > Diplomats along > > > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind > > > and valuable > > > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist > > > Leadership on such > > > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > > > > > > > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > > > Kashmir who > > > are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > > > Force(s) but > > > least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > > > sympathizers. > > > > > > > > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > > > present > > > scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > > > Pockets > > > so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > > > un-scrupulous > > > elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > > > > > > > > *President* > > > > > > *+91-9906564741* > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rashneek Kher > > > > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > ___________________________ > > > ______________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To > > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List > > > archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share your memories online with anyone you want. > > http://www.microsoft.com/india/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Meera From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:53:18 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:53:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907270323l7f2a58d1l162d4b0e87956007@mail.gmail.com> And when politicians kill the very fundamental principles of democracy, where does this stand. Murali On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Meera Rizvi wrote: > Hi! > > Aren't we kind of missing the point here. No death is less important but > yes, some deaths ARE less unjust. When criminals kill, it is a heinous > crime. But when protectors kill, it is a travesty of justice. And whether > you like it or not, there is a difference between the two. > > Meera > > On 7/27/09, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > > > > > Blame it on those who founded the 'gun culture' in the valley at the > behest > > of their Pakistani masters.Today, Kashmir that had almost 'zero' crime > rate > > till the onset of pan Islamism inspired terrorism in 1989-90, has become > > synonymous with 'death' & 'destruction'. It is a pity that the > protagnists > > of the macabre 'death & destruction' drama in Kashmir enjoy a fan > following > > on this forum too & that brutalisation of Kashmiri society has been > allowed > > in the name of jihad for 'so called azadi'....???... > > > > Regards all > > > > LA > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:18:53 +0530 > > > From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com > > > To: yousufism at gmail.com; rashneek at gmail.com > > > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > > Kashmir) > > > > > > If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by > > > surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by > > > protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in > > the > > > last few months. A man was recently murdered, found with a hundred > rupee > > > note stuffed into his mouth. None of these merited protests. > > > > > > Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > > > > > > > > > > From: M Yousuf > > > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 > > > > To: rashneek kher > > > > Cc: reader-list > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based > in > > > > Kashmir) > > > > > > > > It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement > > > > after > > > almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the > > > > promptness > > > now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement > > > > issued > > > about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe > > > > to > > > find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were > > > > from > > > some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be > > > > advisable > > > for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and > > > > seek Syed > > > Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital > > > > jail > > > where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream > > > > pro-India > > > politicians. > > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI > > > Sathu Barbar Shah, > > > > Srinagar - 190001 > > > email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com > > > > > > Dated : 29.06.2009 > > > > > > PRESS > > > > RELEASE > > > > > > SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > > > SAMITI > > > SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS > > > > > > > > > > > > Srinagar, 29 > > > > June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council > > > of Kashmiri Pandit > > > > SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at > > > the meeting deliberated on > > > > events surrounding the gang rape and murder > > > of two young women in > > > > Shopian. > > > Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and > > > > inhuman > > > act allegedly committed by members of the police force who > > > > are > > > supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members > > > were > > > > visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the > > > Kashmir police > > > > officials as has been found in the enquiry. > > > > > > The KPSS also condemns the > > > > initial cover-up by local administrative > > > officials in Shopian that led to an > > > > incorrect initial assessment of > > > the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly > > > > the initial press > > > briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir > > > > Range, > > > was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of > > > the > > > > SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all > > > these acts of > > > > ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and > > > condemned by the Justice Jan > > > > Commission. > > > > > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for > > > > their > > > determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. > > > > > > KPSS further > > > > stated that the state government has not carried out full > > > inquiries into other > > > > previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar > > > Bahi, etc. where it is still > > > > unclear if various criminal acts were > > > committed by security personnel or > > > > militants. The SAMITI recalls the > > > failure of State authorities in > > > > investigating the horrific acts of > > > rape and brutal murders of the Braroo > > > > family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati > > > Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in > > > > 1994 in their house at > > > Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were > > > > raped in front > > > of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That > > > > case was > > > all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the > > > > Braroo > > > home knew the culprit but police still did not act. > > > > > > The KPSS is > > > > critical of both mainstream and separatist political > > > parties for politicizing > > > > some acts of criminality, violence, and human > > > rights abuses while conveniently > > > > ignoring other similar cases that too > > > require attention and justice. The > > > > Samiti stated that the latest > > > shameful incident has once again put the honor > > > > of all Kashmiri women - > > > without cast, creed or religion - at stake as > > > > authorities and leaders > > > of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and > > > > defend the > > > dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe > > > > no > > > Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough > > > against > > > > perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such > > > horrific acts in the > > > > recent past be it in the hands of security forces > > > or by militants. > > > > > > The > > > > credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands > > > that > > > > following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be > > > served > > > > immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency > > > and all guilty > > > > personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law > > > and receive the > > > > harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest > > > of rare cases.² > > > > > > The > > > > Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people > > > programs by > > > > responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest > > > and compel the state > > > > government to take stern action against culprits > > > irrespective of their stature > > > > in the society or official rank. The > > > SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri > > > > citizens that include > > > professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central > > > > government > > > organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² > > > > until > > > the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, > > > > shopkeepers, > > > transporters and other public institutions should hoist small > > > > black > > > flags until the justice is done. > > > > > > KPSS strongly believes that rapist and > > > > killers can never be the > > > masters and protectors of any civilized > > > > society. > > > > > > KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section > > > > of > > > society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. > > > > > > Sanjay K > > > > .Tickoo > > > President, KPSS > > > +91 9906564741 > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, > > > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > *It has a message for separtists > > > > but more importantly for their bleeding > > > > heart sympathesizers,some of them > > > > are here too....* > > > > > > > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to > > > > carry this release in > > > > their papers. > > > > > > > > > > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > > > SAMITI* > > > > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > > > > email: > > > > kpss.kashmir@ > > > > gmail.com< > > > > > > > > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > > > > > > > *Press Release* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *(Separatists silence over > > > > Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In recent months killings > > > > of some members of Kashmiri Society > > > > erupted violence all over the Valley and > > > > was supported by the Separatists > > > > organization, through every such act on > > > > Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > > > > But > > > > the way the Separatists Leadership > > > > keeps silence over the atrocities done > > > > by > > > > the militants who obviously > > > > belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > > > > > > > There is no > > > > ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of > > > > two persons at Keller, > > > > Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > > > > that > > > > the Separatist > > > > Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > > > > kind of act by > > > > the militants. > > > > > > > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World > > > > Communities that > > > > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early > > > > militancy period > > > > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on > > > > the name of being > > > > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout > > > > the world by them > > > > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master > > > > minded by then > > > > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - > > > > cum - > > > > Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > > > > we > > > > categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals > and > > > > > > > > dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will > not > > come > > > > > > > > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own > > cadres on > > > > > > > > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility > > will > > > > > > > > remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to > > them > > > > > > > > sympathetically. > > > > > > > > Further, we invite the kind attention of > > > > European Diplomats and > > > > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve > > > > the dispute between the > > > > two nations and have access to Separatist > > > > Organizations to take a serious > > > > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri > > > > Leaders over the innocent > > > > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and > > > > in present. > > > > > > > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign > > > > Diplomats along > > > > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind > > > > and valuable > > > > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist > > > > Leadership on such > > > > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > > > > Kashmir who > > > > are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > > > > Force(s) but > > > > least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > > > > sympathizers. > > > > > > > > > > > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > > > > present > > > > scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > > > > Pockets > > > > so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > > > > un-scrupulous > > > > elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > > > > > > > > > > > *President* > > > > > > > > *+91-9906564741* > > > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rashneek Kher > > > > > > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > > list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send > > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject > > > > header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > ___________________________ > > > > ______________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To > > > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List > > > > archive: > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Share your memories online with anyone you want. > > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/india/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > Meera > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 27 16:01:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:31:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] India's ID project catches fancy of US lawmakers- 163 In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907270248k46b2c08dqb0c9c0c0e616116d@mail.gmail.com> References: <59869.94.212.51.22.1248600041.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <53AF3672-8E93-42FF-A535-2494F047CFE7@sarai.net> <65be9bf40907261057y607d2fcdtb4bfdf6df07cc7e7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907270114v661248d4i9968df373f6fb0a8@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907270231yc63dbf9l4d4b6aa525cd1c09@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907270248k46b2c08dqb0c9c0c0e616116d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907270331g4f19afecm3d6c3d90803b8c36@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, Please forgive me but there seems to be a gross misunderstanding in your interpretation of my reading of your thoughts. For I have neither consciously associated nor have I deliberately connected or linked in any manner, your thoughts to those propagated by Hitler and gang. That is not even the issue here. The reference to -gassing- was merely an illustration of what perhaps history has to offer in terms of interpretations of past events about these abstract notions of positive or negative. How then could it mean one cannot ascribe to what could be vaguely defined as positive or negative? Hope this re-assures you. Warm regards :) Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 27 16:29:01 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:59:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] The Bollywood identity: India's ID cards challenge- 168 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907270359u496a28d0tbbe57d451a0d87@mail.gmail.com> Dear All There's more spin here- the informed author of this learned piece wants us to believe the following. 1. The pilot programme. Around 100 million identity cards are expected to be handed out as part of an extended pilot. Where was a pilot program UIDC talked about? When was it mentioned? Who mentioned it? As far as I know, there's not going to be a pilot program for UIDAI. There was one for MNIC. but MNIC is being renamed as UIDC. 2. India has around 100 million internal migrants who often fall foul of corrupt territorial officials. Selling the scheme to central and state-level ministers and their minions, Nandan concedes, will be his first big test. Ministerial powers should help - a bit Just look at the tone here, 'Selling the scheme to central and state-level ministers and their minions'. The deeply patronizing tone of this idiot. Minions. Really? I think a billion Indians must make their voices felt against this seemingly plain transfer of funds, this blatant redistribution of money to IT sector, this crass, shoddy way in which investment in social capital is being ignored. And 100 million internal migrants??? Isn't that too small a figure!!! Just 10% of us are internally displaced? 3. Success however will be a true revolutionary leap forward for the world largest democracy. As George W. Bush said, "A billion people, in a functioning democracy. Ain't that something." If this programme actually delivers, then the world will have to agree "Ain't that something!!" and be very humble. So does -revolutionary leap- these days mean creating a -vendor driven- identity market for plastic tokens? Where sometimes -domain expertise- of Israeli Jews in numbering people comes in handy? Ha! Please read the story below for more illuminating perspectives. Warm regards Taha http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/07/27/237048/indias-id-cards-challenge.htm The scene is set for another modern Indian classic. It involves previous failures, deep systemic corruption, anti-terrorism, political ideology and ambition, at least two billionaires, a cast of 1.2 billion people, and a battleground for local and global outsourcing giants competing for the spoils of a multi-billion-dollar set of contracts and a truly life-changing three-year project that the eyes of the world will be watching and scrutinising for ideas and copycat re-enactment elsewhere, writes Robert Morgan, director of outsourcing consultancy Hamilton Bailey. Act One - the presidential palace in New Delhi 25 July 2009, the two billionaires meet. Bill Gates and former Infosys Technologies founder and co-chairman Nandan Nilekani against the background of the conferment ceremony of the Indira Gandhi Peace Prize. The talk is of Nandan's new role as government minister in charge of the Unique Identification Authority of India. The talk is of ID cards as critical to improving the delivery of social services, subsidies and other government programmes while also strengthening national security. Some1.2 billion people unified by biometrics and plastic. Corruption siphons as much as 80% of the funds meant for India's poor, according to studies from Harvard Business School and the World Bank. Gates' ambition was made clear with the words: "I'll certainly commit, Microsoft wants to be a partner.". "It's the mother of all IT projects," said Nandan. The gauntlet has been thrown down. The halls of IBM, HP, CSC, Accenture et al reverberated this same desire. Projects this big are rare in today's credit crisis outsourcing market. India must not close its doors to competition - but it will be a first for India, having reaped huge benefits from the world's free market Could this be the first real project where Microsoft's move into formal structured and head-on competition for the provision of outsourcing services is finally displayed? Closer to home, Infosys has not hidden its ambition, although Nandan will not participate in supplier selection. Tata Consultancy Services is also interested. In 2007, it issued ID cards to rural workers with short-term government contracts in Andhra Pradesh state. Wages of 2.5 million workers, previously outside the formal economy were deposited into Indian Post Office accounts. "This resulted in verification of identification and a clampdown on fund leakages," said S Ramadorai, CEO at TCS. Act Two - The pilot programme. Around 100 million identity cards are expected to be handed out as part of an extended pilot - almost twice the size of the UK's dying ID cards programme. India believes that it can roll out this IT project for 1.2 billion people for around £3bn, against the UK's £5.3bn - a bargain. India has around 100 million internal migrants who often fall foul of corrupt territorial officials. Selling the scheme to central and state-level ministers and their minions, Nandan concedes, will be his first big test. Ministerial powers should help - a bit Avoiding an outsourcing-UK-style NHS contract disaster will be the second big test. The Indian government has very little experience of outsourcing contracts of this size and complexity Success however will be a true revolutionary leap forward for the world largest democracy. As George W. Bush said, "A billion people, in a functioning democracy. Ain't that something." If this programme actually delivers, then the world will have to agree "Ain't that something!!" and be very humble. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 27 16:30:39 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:00:39 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Unique ID numbers in 12-18 months - 169 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907270400u7758fe31s2848e0cef9b96ab6@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/24/stories/2009072457830100.htm Unique ID numbers in 12-18 months Special Correspondent NEW DELHI: High-profile Information Technology expert and Infosys co-founder Nandan Nilekani on Thursday took charge as Chairman of the newly created Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) and promised to roll out the first set of unique identification numbers within 12-18 months. Speaking to the media at his office in Yojana Bhavan here, he said: “In the next 12 to 18 months, we will be issuing the first set of unique identification numbers …The Finance Minister [Pranab Mukherjee] in his budget speech has said that the ID numbers would be issued in 12-18 months. We take that as [a] very strong direction and commitment. So we intend to abide by that.” Lest there be any ambiguity over the task entrusted to the UIAI, Mr. Nilekani clarified that the Authority’s job would be not to issue cards but only create a database of the identity of people. “We are not going to be issuing cards. We are going to be issuing numbers. We are going to issue a unique identification number for each person …Our intention is to give everybody a unique number to each person ... We will have to do it with some kind of biometric identification,” he said. Simple database The Cabinet-ranked chief of the UIAI said these numbers would provide an identity to citizens, help them in reaping the benefits of various government schemes and also facilitate other activities such as opening bank accounts and obtaining electricity connection. “We will have a very simple database, which provides biometric and demographic identity details like name, number, date of birth, very basic things,” he said. Various government departments might use the database for different purposes. “So the people who are in the public distribution system will use the number to authenticate whether an individual is eligible to get some subsidies like kerosene or food or whatever.” With an allocation of Rs. 120 crore for the current fiscal, Mr. Nilekani noted that his first task would be to set up a team by picking up the best talent available from the government as well as the private sector to prepare the residents’ database. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jul 27 16:39:02 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:09:02 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907270323l7f2a58d1l162d4b0e87956007@mail.gmail.com> References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907270323l7f2a58d1l162d4b0e87956007@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907270409s6ef3d8f8le1da72571389225c@mail.gmail.com> That, I think, stands on one leg and that happens when who you are becomes more important than what you stand for, because democracy is nothing, in a way, but what you stand for is it not :) From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 17:24:21 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:24:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For NGOs seeking government grants... Message-ID: To read about Government of India's initiative for NGOs seeking grants, check http://bit.ly/h22sH From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 18:44:38 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:44:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote Now Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907270614p21bd6ee7h8312aaa5ff9fb074@mail.gmail.com> Should other state legislative assemblies also pass a resolution supporting a separate Homeland for Kashmiri Hindu Refugees in Kashmir ? Vote online on the above Question Vote Here : www.thekashmir.wordpress.com From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 20:33:51 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Welfare of Dalits is mere lip service Message-ID: <305253.60078.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi All, Happened to read an article in today's Hindustan Times.Just wanted to share: 1. The Schedule Caste Commission, mandated by the Constitution of India to highlight Dalits' sufferings, has not filed its Report for the last four years. 2. The Reports are a single-point source of information on the conditions of Dalits and become Public only when they are tabled in Parliament. 3. The last Reports were filed in 2001-02, which was not tabled in Parliament and the next one in 2004-05. Some extracts from the report: a) Untouchability-banned under the Constitution-is rampant-45% of the cases coming from Andhra Pradesh alone. b) 40% of the nation's Scheduled Caste citizens are agricultural labourers have no land and work for others. c) More than half of Dalit students drop out before class 8, the highest being in Bihar, Assam and West Bengal. d) In many hostels built by the govt for the community, children don't know how MILK tastes as food supplies meant for them never reach them. and then there are data on rapes,sanitation etc. My only concern where the money meant for SCs is going and who is cornering the reservation meant for SCs?? (A.K.MALIK) From pankhuree at hotmail.com Mon Jul 27 22:21:48 2009 From: pankhuree at hotmail.com (pankhuree dube) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:51:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907221437p7fe5d790p60fc1c673a3f8102@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907221437p7fe5d790p60fc1c673a3f8102@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha, I apologize for the delay in responding but I have been mulling over your question: "As things stand now, you tell me, what use could a data comprising of under-nourished, poor consumer would be, to the Tescos, the Tatas, and the Toyotas of the world?" Maybe it is not that India's poor will be instantly transformed into consumers, maybe it is possible they will be consumed. I liked the piece you sent out some time ago where a middle-class Indian man is trying to order a pizza and the delivery boy manages to read off his entire life story by processing the ID number. Already, we know of poor Indians donating their kidneys to wealthy people over the internet. Perhaps the ID card will become a way of matching the services a poor person could willingly or unwillingly render with the highest bidder. Naomi Klein and others have convincingly argued that in the future wars will be fought over resources such as access to water and that wealthy people will inhabit green zones which resemble airports and are barred to the outside. It occurs to me that these ID cards, with all their technical errors, may also be a way to keep Big Babu's eyes on the masses and keep the rabble in line. Just some scary thoughts, Pankhuree > Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:37:57 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 > From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > To: pankhuree at hotmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > > Dear Pankhuree, > > The view of a State turning towards a dystopian society and an > Orwellian future is a well documented one. I'd be very surprised if > all Indians, (actually...ummmmm..... we don't really know who an > Indian- exactly is-, at least legally) but for the sake of an > argument- all Indians, could be documented accurately without any > fault. > > We are a very poor country, although there are many of us brave fellow > citizens who like to believe that India is the next superpower. I > feel that it is a worthy dream. > > Let me tell you that I deeply desire that one day all Indians, > irrespective of their caste or creed could actually shop in the > comforts of these air conditioned malls. > > Maybe then I wouldn't mind at all, if these shops were to project > some commercials tailored to the needs of a billion plus consumers. > > However I fear that in a rush to create a database of our > fingerprints and what not, is our government not fulfilling its basic > obligation towards these companies, which is- to first convert a > billion plus electorate to a billion plus consumers. > > A billion consumers who are at par with anyone else in this world. > > It appears as if, by introducing UIDC and by placing Nandu there at > the top, our government is tailoring to the needs of only one sector- > IT sector, at the peril of ignoring all the other sectors particularly > , the nascent retail sector. > > As things stand now, you tell me, what use could a data comprising of > under-nourished, poor consumer would be, to the Tescos, the Tatas, and > the Toyotas of the world? > > So sure, dystopian society it would be- but it would be funny in a > way, wouldn't it, to see a whole lot of manual scavengers, farmers on > the verge of suicide, tribals (who are full on organic BTW), urban > poor, migrants laborers and naxals...yes them lot too...just hopping > around the country with smart digital tokens of Automatic > Identification and Data Capture (AIDC) technology and other assorted > Card Technologies, Data Communications Technologies, Bar Code > Technologies and Radio Frequency Identification Technologies etc. > > These days they are issuing ration documents for people who are Below > the Poverty Line in the name of Sania Mirza later maybe during the > period of utopia ushered by UIDC we may issue cards in the name of > Mahtma Gandhi :) > > Thanks for your reply, though. > > Warm regards > > Taha _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Jul 28 02:23:59 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:23:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chavez+Ahmadinejad=? Message-ID: <697aea078669c44e2b760af46da01777@sarai.net> Dear all, I am forwarding this text below in continuation of the exchange on the situation in Iran (protests continue, by the way, despite the continuing crackdown, in all major Iranian cities). The text, written by Maziar Riazi that I found on ZNet is addressed to the working people of Venezuela on the matter of Hugo Chavez's recent declarations of support for the Ahmadinejad-Khamenei Regime in Iran. http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/21968 best, Shuddha -------------------------------------- Open letter to the workers of Venezuela on Hugo Chávez's support for Ahmadinejad July 12, 2009 By Maziar Razi 

 The Revolutionary Marxists of Iran are aware of your achievements as part of the Bolivarian Movement and have always supported this movement against the widespread lies and the open and covert interference of imperialism.

In order to defend your invaluable movement and to confront the attacks and interference of US imperialism in Venezuela, labor and student activists in Iran have set up the "Hands Off Venezuela" campaign in Iran and during the past few years have stood together with you in confronting the imperialist attacks. It is obvious that your achievements were gained under the leadership of Hugo Chavez and, for this reason, you reserve deep respect for him. 
In terms of his foreign policy, however, Chavez has made a mistake. With his support for Ahmadinejad he has ignored the solidarity of the workers and students of Iran with your revolution, and in a word, made it look worthless. Most are aware that two weeks ago Ahmadinejad, with the direct support of Khamenei, committed the biggest fraud in the history of presidential elections in Iran and then, with great ferocity, spilt the blood of those protesting against this fraud. You just have to take notice of the international media reports to be aware of the depths of this tragedy. All over the world millions of workers and students, and also those of Marxist and revolutionary tendencies (which mostly are the supporters of the Bolivarian revolution), protested against these attacks.

In of spite this, Chavez was one of the first people to support Ahmadinejad. In his weekly TV speech he said: "Ahmadinejad's triumph is a total victory. They're trying to stain Ahmadinejad's victory, and by doing so they aim to weaken the government and the Islamic revolution. I know they won't be able to do it." And that "We ask the world for respect."

 These rash and baseless remarks from your President are a great and direct insult to the millions of youth who in recent days rose up against tyranny. Some of them even lost their lives. Many of these youths came out on the streets spontaneously and without becoming infected with the regime's internal disputes, or becoming aligned with the policy that US imperialism is following for taking over the movement. In addition, the remarks of your President are an insult to millions of workers in Iran. Workers whose leaders are today being tortured in the prisons of the Ahmadinejad government and some of them are even believed to be being punished with flogging. Workers who were brutally repressed by the mercenaries of the Ahmadinejad government for commemorating May Day in Tehran this year are still in prison.

So far Chavez has travelled to Iran seven times and each time he has hugged one of the most hated people in this country and called him his "brother." He does not realise that the economic, social and political situations of Venezuela and Iran are going in opposite directions. Although both countries have seen a similarly significant boost to their oil (and gas) revenues the contrast between the ways in which this extra money has been used by the two governments could not be more marked. In Venezuela this income is used for building hospitals, schools, universities and other infrastructure of the country, but in Iran it is used for lining the pockets of just a few parasitic capitalists. 

On the one hand, in Venezuela, we have seen the nationalization of an increasing number of companies and factories, the free provision of healthcare, education, civil liberties and so on. By contrast in Iran privatization is on the government's agenda, even at the cost of trampling on Article 44 of the Constitution of the country and using the excuse of inefficiency and low productivity of state companies and factories. All these advances of the workers and the poor in Venezuela have given them greater control over the way they work and the way they live. Most importantly, the expropriation of factories and the encouragement of workers' control and participation have transformed the character of the workers' movement in Venezuela, advancing it by many stages. The Bolivarian movement and the policies of the government have brought about a huge shift in the balance of class forces in Venezuela in favour of the working class. Not only has the government encouraged the Venezuelan workers to build the Union Nacional de los Trabajadores (UNT) as an alternative to the Confederacion de Trabajadores de Venezuela (CTV), but the workers have become involved in running and managing factories and other enterprises. The whole world knows that your government has even drawn up a list of 1,149 closed-down factories and given their owners an ultimatum: re-open them under workers' control or the government will expropriate them. 

In Iran, on the other hand, on top of the lack of many basic democratic rights, the workers are also without any independent trade union rights. Today the workers of Iran do not even have a confederation like the Confederacion de Trabajadores de Venezuela. All they have are the Labor House, the Islamic Labor Councils and other anti-working class bodies tied to the state.

But this has not always been so: the overthrow of the Shah brought about many freedoms for workers including, in some cases, control over production and even distribution. Then, however, through repression the Islamic hierarchy managed to take back all the workers' gains. The leaders that your President hugs killed thousands of workers, destroyed the workers' movement and pushed it back by several decades. In Iranian society even the "yellow" pro-boss unions -- that the Shah had tolerated -- became and remain illegal. Even a CTV-style trade union confederation is illegal in Iran. 

 In Iran the official (and underestimated) unemployment rate stands at 10.85%, with unemployment among the youth (15-24 year-olds) standing at 22.35%. Even when workers are employed they are often not paid -- in many cases for more than a year. Even those who get their wages face an impossible task in paying for the basic necessities of life, because their wage is not enough for living costs. For example, with the rent for a two-bedroom flat at $422 a month, a civil servant on $120 wages, or a teacher on $180, or even a doctor on $600 a month struggle to survive. It is no wonder that some 90% of the population live below the poverty line.

 The capitalist government of Iran has no fundamental disagreements or contradictions with US imperialism. It is in a "cold war" with America and when it receives enough concessions, it will quickly enter into political dealings with the US and will turn its back on you. Indeed, the Iran regime has already helped the Americans in their military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq - and installing the puppet regimes of Karzai and Maliki through significant trade, security and other deals. The capitalist government of Iran, despite the current apparent differences, is busy in close negotiations with the Obama government on resolving the problems of Afghanistan. This government, despite the "anti-imperialist" rhetoric, is heading towards re-establishing old links with the US. Ahmadinejad's selection demonstrates the final turn of the regime towards resolving its problems with imperialism. Despite all the "enmity" and "anti-imperialist" gestures the regime is ready to resolve all its differences with America. The government of Iran wants to turn Iran into a society like Colombia (in Colombia thousands of trade unionists have been killed so that multinational companies can exploit workers and plunder the country's natural resources without any obstacles). It is not without reason that the Iranian government has been implementing the bankrupt neo-liberal prescriptions of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund and counting the minutes until it joins the World Trade Organization.

The close and regular links of your leader, Chavez, with the leaders of this regime will eventually make the Iranian masses turn their back on the great lessons of the revolutionary process in Venezuela.

Winning the hearts and minds of the masses in Iran and similar countries is the best long-term solution to breaking Washington's stranglehold on Latin America. Your leader's closeness with the capitalist government of Iran, a government that has the blood of thousands of workers and youth on its hands, shows that his anti-imperialist foreign policy has a major flaw. Being close to reactionary regimes will never be able to bring the anti-imperialist foreign policy to a successful conclusion. Only the unity of the real representatives of the workers and toilers can confront imperialism. 
Stand together with the Iranian workers and condemn the foreign policy of your leaders. Support for Ahmadinejad means support for the repression of Iranian workers and youth. Challenge the flawed positions of Chavez and reject them.

Support for the government of Ahmadinejad, especially after the recent events, is at worst an open betrayal of the toilers of Iran and at best a political blunder in foreign policy. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 09:42:10 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:42:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pushing South Asia Toward the Brink Message-ID: Pushing South Asia Toward the Brink Zia Mian | July 27, 2009 www.fpif.org The contradictions and confusions in U.S. policy in South Asia were on full display during Secretary of State Hilary Clinton's recent visit to India. U.S. support for India, which centers on making money, selling weapons, and turning a blind eye to the country's nuclear weapons, is fatally at odds with U.S. policy and concerns about Pakistan. By enabling an India-Pakistan arms race, rather than focusing on resolving the conflict and helping them make peace, the United States is driving Pakistan toward the very collapse it fears. America's New India In an op-ed in The Times of India just before the start of her visit, Clinton laid out U.S. interests in India. The first item on Clinton's list was "the 300 million members of India's burgeoning middle class," that she identified as "a vast new market and opportunity." The emerging Indian middle class is large — for comparison, the current total U.S. population is also about 300 million — and greedy for a more American lifestyle. But the focus on India as fundamentally a market for U.S. goods and services, and a source of cheap labor for U.S. corporations, marks a remarkable shift. The United States and other western countries have traditionally seen India as the home of the desperately poor, deserving charity and needing development. But no more. Clinton's article made no mention of India's poor, which the World Bank recently estimated as including over 450 million people living on less than $1.25 a day. India is also seen as a new emerging power of the 21st century, one that can be an ally of the United States and help it balance and contain the rise of China. Under the Bush Administration, in 2004, the U.S. and India signed an agreement called the "Next Steps in Strategic Partnership." To make India a fitting strategic partner, a senior State Department official later explained the U.S."goal is to help India become a major world power in the 21st century," and left no doubt what this meant, saying "we understand fully the implications, including military implications, of that statement." India is seeking both to modernize and expand its military forces. It has dramatically increased its military budget, up over 34% alone this year. India now has the 10th-highest military spending in the world. It's becoming a major market for U.S. arms sales. U.S. weapons makers Lockheed Martin and Boeing have already racked up deals worth billions of dollars. But the real bonanza is still to come. India is said to be planning to spend as much $55 billion on weapons over the next five years. But the big news of the Clinton visit was the announcement of an India-U.S. Strategic Dialogue. This will include an annual formal meeting of key officials, co-chaired by the secretary of State and India's external affairs minister, and including on the U.S. side the secretaries of Agriculture, Trade, Energy, Education, Finance, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, and others. But given the difference in the power and range of interests of the two states, this will be no dialogue of equals. The process is intended to align Indian interests and policies in a wide range of areas with those of the United States. Nuclear India In her press conference with India's minister of external affairs, Clinton said, "We discussed our common vision of a world without nuclear weapons and the practical steps that our countries can take to strengthen the goal of nonproliferation." But there was no mention here of India's nuclear buildup, or of the United States asking India to slow down or to end its program. In fact, one would never guess from Clinton's remarks that India even had a nuclear weapons program. She seemed interested only in the prospect of U.S. sales of nuclear reactors to India worth $10 billion or more. India is one of perhaps only three countries still making material for new nuclear weapons. The others are Pakistan and Israel (with North Korea threatening to resume production). India is building a fast-breeder reactor that is expected to begin operation in 2010 and is outside International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards. It could increase three- to five-fold India's current capacity to make plutonium for nuclear weapons. India seeks to become a major nuclear power. On July 26, it launched its first nuclear–powered submarine. India plans to deploy several of these submarines. Last year, it carried out its first successful underwater launch of a 700 kilometer-range ballistic missile, Sagarika, intended for the submarine. India joins the United States, Russia, the United Kingdom, France, and China in the club of those owning such nuclear-armed, nuclear-powered submarines. Israel is believed to have nuclear-armed cruise missiles on diesel powered submarines. India is also developing an array of land-based missiles. In May 2008, it tested the 3,500 kilometer-range Agni-III missile, which was subsequently reported to have been approved for deployment with the army, and is working on a missile with a range of over 5,000 kilometer. In November 2008, India also tested a 600 kilometer-range silo-based missile, Shourya. In 2009, India carried out several tests of its cruise missile, Brahmos, which the army and navy are inducting into service. The U.S. silence on India's nuclear weapons and missile programs is all the more telling, given that it was the Clinton administration that proposed United Nations Security Council resolution 1172. In 1998, this unanimous Security Council resolution called on India and Pakistan to "immediately stop their nuclear weapon development programs, to refrain from the deployment of nuclear weapons, to cease development of ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons, and any further production of fissile material for nuclear weapons." The Bush administration ignored it. It seems the Obama administration will too. Pakistan v. India Pakistan was noticeable for its near absence from Clinton's agenda in India. It came up only in the context of the need to fight terrorism. Forgotten was the brute fact that India and Pakistan are straining harder than ever in their nuclear and conventional arms race. A Pakistani diplomat responded to the Clinton visit to India by telling The Washington Post that "What Hillary is doing there is probably again going to start an arms race." This race drives Pakistan toward collapse, the very thing the United States fears. Pakistan is buying U.S. weapons as fast as it can, some paid for with U.S. military aid, with arms sales agreements worth over $6 billion since 2001, including for new F-16 jet-fighters. China, an old ally, is also supplying the country with jet fighters and other weapons. Pakistan is also boosting its nuclear program. It's building two new reactors to make plutonium for nuclear weapons. It continues to test both ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to carry nuclear weapons. The principal U.S. concern about Pakistan, aside from the country falling apart and its nuclear weapons falling into the hands of Islamists, is the war against al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan and in the border areas of Pakistan. It has been telling Pakistan to focus its military forces and strategic concerns on this battle, which requires moving more soldiers away from the border with India. The generals who command Pakistan's army were bound to resist such a redeployment. They worry about the new U.S.-India strategic relationship, and what it may mean for them when the war on the Taliban is over and the United States no longer needs Pakistan. The Pakistani army, which rules the country even when civilians are in office, will not easily shift its view of India. The army and those who lead it see the threat from India as their very reason for being. The army has grown in size, influence, and power, to the point where it dwarfs all other institutions in society and would lose much if there was peace with India. But there is a personal dimension as well. The partition of the subcontinent 62 years ago that created Pakistan is in the living memory of many who make decisions in Pakistan. General Pervez Musharraf, who was chief of army staff before he seized power in 1999 and ruled for nine years, was born in India before partition. General Musharraf, along with the current chief of army staff, General Kayani, and others in Pakistan's high command, fought as young officers in the 1971 war against India. The war ended with Pakistan itself partitioned, as East Pakistan became the independent state of Bangladesh, with India's help, and 90,000 Pakistani soldiers captured by India as prisoners of war. As Graham Usher notes in the new issue of the Middle East Report, before becoming president, Barack Obama seemed to understand that resolving the conflict between India and Pakistan was critical to dealing with the problems in Afghanistan and with the Taliban. In 2007, Obama claimed "I will encourage dialogue between Pakistan and India to work toward resolving their dispute over Kashmir and between Afghanistan and Pakistan to resolve their historic differences and develop the Pashtun border region. If Pakistan can look toward the east with greater confidence, it will be less likely to believe that its interests are best advanced through cooperation with the Taliban." There is little evidence that this view has yet informed U.S. policy. The Reality of Pakistan In their rush to make money and to preserve American power in the world by crafting an alliance with India, U.S. policymakers seem to have averted their eyes from the reality that stares them in the face in Pakistan. In March 2009, the Director of National Intelligence summed up the situation in Pakistan: The government is losing authority in parts of the North-West Frontier Province and has less control of its semi-autonomous tribal areas: even in the more developed parts of the country, mounting economic hardships and frustration over poor governance have given rise to greater radicalization…Economic hardships are intense, and the country is now facing a major balance of payments challenge. Islamabad needs to make painful reforms to improve overall macroeconomic stability. Pakistan's law-and-order situation is dismal, affecting even Pakistani elites, and violence between various sectarian, ethnic, and political groups threatens to escalate. Pakistan's population is growing rapidly at a rate of about 2 percent a year, and roughly half of the country's 172 million residents are illiterate, under the age of 20, and live near or below the poverty line. Things have worsened since then. The Taliban is now seeking to escape U.S. drone attacks and major assaults by the Pakistan army in the Tribal Areas by taking refuge in the cities. There are already no-go areas in Karachi, Pakistan's largest city, where the Taliban controls the streets. Meanwhile electricity riots have exploded in cities across the country, with mobs attacking public buildings, blocking highways, and damaging trains and buses. Each day seems to bring news of some new failure of the state to provide basic social services. The Obama administration believes that an increase in U.S. aid to Pakistan can help solve the problem. The Kerry-Lugar bill (the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act) approved by the Senate in June would triple economic aid to Pakistan to $1.5 billion a year for five years. But as the Congressional Research Service noted in its recent report on Pakistan, the United States has given Pakistan about $16.5 billion in "direct, overt U.S. aid" up to 2007. More of the same offers little hope for change. A basic reordering of U.S. priorities in South Asia is long overdue. The first principle of U.S. policy in the region should be to do no more harm. This means it has to stop feeding the fire between India and Pakistan. Only an end to the South Asian arms race can begin to undo the structures of fear, hostility, and violence that have sustained the conflict in the subcontinent for so long. The search for peace may then have at least a chance of success. Zia Mian is a physicist with the Program on Science and Global Security at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and a columnist for Foreign Policy In Focus. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 10:04:54 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:04:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The collected works of Aldous Huxley Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907272134l7db70f6fh2a07e0572a584b27@mail.gmail.com> Page (20 to 39) KASHMIR IT is cheaper in this country to have a waggon pulled by half a dozen men than by a pair of oxen or horses.All day, on the road below our house, the heavyladen carts go creaking slowly along behind their team of human draft animals. The coolies sing as they pull, partly out of sheer lightness of heart (for these Kashmiris are wonderfully cheerful, in spite of everything), and partly, no doubt, because they have discovered the psychological fact that to sing in chorus creates a strengthening sense of solidarity within the singing group, and seems to lighten the work in hand by making the muscular effort respond almost automatically to a regular rhythmic stimulus. I noticed two main types of labourer's chantey. One of these is melodically quite ambitious; for it ranges over no less than three notes of the minor scale. It is sung in unison, and there is no separate chorus leader. The commonest form of the melody is more or less as follows: Da capo ad infinitum. They sing it all day at their work and half the night as well, for fun, when there happens to be a wedding or some similar festival. The other chantey takes the form of a kind of dialogue between the chorus and a chorus leader, who responds to the two strong beats of the choral song by a single monosyllable, always the same, sustained for two beats, and sung emphatically on a lower note. The words were incomprehensible to me; but translated into terms of gibberish, they sounded something like this: Chorus, Dum-dum. Leader, BONG. Chorus, Tweedle-dum. Leader,BONG; Tum-diddy, BONG; Tweedle-weedle, BONG. And so on, hour after hour. This rhythmical dialogue is the favourite music of the waggon teams. Walking abroad, one is never for long out of hearing of that monotonous Dum-dum, BONG; diddy-dum, BONG. The singing floats down between the poplar trees of the straight flat roads of the valley, and slowly, laboriously the waggon and its human crew come following after the swift-travelling song. Passing, I feel almost ashamed to look at the creeping wain; I avert my eyes from a spectacle so painfully accusatory. That men should be reduced to the performance of a labour which, even for beasts, is cruel and humiliating, is a dreadful thing. ' Ah, but they feel things less than we do,' the owners of motor-cars, the eaters of five meals a day, the absorbers of whisky hasten to assure me; ' they feel them less, because they 're used to this sort of life. They don't mind, because they know no better. They 're really quite happy.' And these assertions are quite true. They do not know better; they are used to this life; they are incredibly resigned. All the more shame to the men and to the system that have reduced them to such an existence and kept them from knowing anything better. It is in relation to their opposites that things have significance for us. ' Opposite shows up opposite, as a Frank a negro.' So wrote Jalalu 'd-Din Muhammad Rumi. 'The opposite of light shows what is light.... God created grief and pain for this purpose: to wit, to manifest happiness by its opposites. Hidden things are manifested by their opposites; but as God has no opposite, He remains hidden.' These Kashmiri draft coolies, who are unaware of comfort, culture, plenty, privacy, leisure, security, freedom, do not in consequence know that they are slaves, do not repine at being herded together in filthy hovels like beasts, do not suffer from their ignorance, and are resigned to being overworked and underfed. Those who profit by the Kashmiri's ignorant acquiescence in such subhuman conditions are naturally not anxious that they should be made aware of the desirable opposites which would make their present life seem odious. The spread of education, the improvement of living conditions are causes which do not rouse them to enthusiasm. And yet, in spite of everything, the spirit of humanitarianism works even through these reluctant agents. For the spirit of humanitarianism is the spirit of the age, which it is impossible for any man, born with the usual supply of social instinct and suggestibility, completely to ignore. His reason may tell him that his own personal advantage would be best served if he kept the disinherited in their places. But a stronger force than reason is for ever trying to make' him act against reason. To be utterly ruthless towards the disinherited would be profitable; but he can never bring himself to be utterly ruthless. In spite of himself, he feels that he ought to give them justice. And he gives it-not very often, no doubt, and not very much at a time-but still, he gives it; that is the queer, significant, and modern thing. Even in Kashmir a tiny pinch of this humanitarian commodity-as yet, however, all but invisiblehas begun to be distributed. Srinagar THE Mogul gardens are disappointingly inferior to any of the more or less contemporary gardens of Italy. Shalimar and Nishat Bagh cannot compare with the Villa d'Este at Tivoli, or the Villa Lanti, near Viterbo. The little Chashma Shahi is architecturally the most charming of the gardens near Srinagar. And the loveliest for trees and waters is Atchibal, at the upper end of the valley; while far-off Verinag, where Jahangir enclosed the blue deep source of the Jhelum in an octagonal tank surrounded by arcades, has a strange and desolate beauty all its own. But in general it may be said that the design of all these Indian gardens is rigid, monotonous, and lacking entirely in the Italian grandiosity, the Italian fertility of invention. The architecture of the pleasure houses which they contain is petty and almost rustic. The decorative details, such of them, at any rate, as remain-for the ornamentation was mostly of a rather gimcrack and temporary character-are without much originality. How greatly the Mogul architects were handicapped by the profession of a religion which forbade the introduction of the human form into their decorative schemes is manifested especially in their fountains. A fountain in one of these gardens is just a nozzle sticking out of the ground, the end of a hose-pipe turned vertically upwards. Miserable object, and unworthy of the name of fountain! I shut my eyes and think of those Bolognese mermaids with their spouting breasts; those boys and tortoises at Rome, all black and shining with wetness; those naiads and river-gods and gesticulating allegories among the rainbows and the falling crystals of the Piazza Navons; those Tritons at the Villa Lanti with their prancing sea-horses-all the fantastic world of tutelary deities that stand guard over Italian springs. The Moguls were good Mohammedans and content with unadorned nozzles. If the Kashmiri gardens are beautiful, that is the work, not so much of man as of nature. The formal beds are full of xinnias and scarlet cannas. The turf is fresh and green. The huge chenar trees go up into the pale bright sky; their white trunks shine between the leaves, which the autumn has turned to a rusty vermilion. Behind them are the steep bare hills, crested already with snow. Their colour, where the sun strikes them, is a kind of silvery-glaucous gold and, in the shadows, a deep intense indigo. Below, on the other side, stretches the Dal Lake, with the isolated fortcrowned hill of Hari-Parbat on the further shore. The sun shines out of a flawless sky, but the air is cool against the face. ' It is a nipping and an eager air'; for we are at more than five thousand feet above the sea. The Great Moguls regarded Kashmir as the earthly paradise. And a paradise to one coming fresh from the earthly hell of the Panjab in summer it must indeed have seemed. The visitor from temperate lands finds it less paradisiacal because more familiar. The lakes and mountains remind us of Switzerland and Italy, and in the level valley, with its interminable poplar avenues, its waterways, and soggy fields, we find ourselves thinking of France, of Holland even. Our ecstasies of admiration are reserved for the unfamiliar tropics. Srinagar IN the autumn great flocks of teal and mallard come through Kashmir, on their way from the breedinggrounds to their winter home in Northern India. Some breed in the recesses of Ladakh, a few hundred miles only from the Kashmir valley; but the majority, it is said, go further afield into Central Asia, possibly even into Siberia, where so many migrants pass the brief but generous summer. In the autumn they fly southwards, over the Himalayas, into India. Some varieties of these water-fowl cross the range at the eastern end, some to the west. Thus the cotton-tail, I am assured by sportsmen, is found in Assam and Bengal, but not in the Panjab; while the mallard is seen only in the west. How these birds, which normally spend their lives in the plain, contrive to pass the Himalayas without dying of mountain-sickness or asphyxiation on the way, is something of a mystery. Most small animals, when taken up suddenly to a height of fifteen or twenty thousand feet-and many of the Himalayan passes touch these heights-simply die. The migrating duck, if it really does come down from Central Asia, must be flying at these altitudes for miles at a stretch. Physiologically, the feat seems almost as extraordinary as that of the eel, which leaves its native pond or river to breed, two or three thousand miles away, in the deep water of the ocean. It would be interesting to know the feelings of a migrant animal, when the moment has arrived for it to perform its journey. The swallow at the end of the summer, the salmon when, having attained its maximum weight, it feels that the time has come, for it to go up into the rivers, the fresh-water eel at the approach of its first and final breeding season, must feel, I imagine, much as a man might feel when suddenly converted, or who finds himself compelled by an irresistible sense of duty to perform some hazardous and disagreeable enterprise. Some power within them-an immanent godcommands them to change their comfortable way of life for a new and arduous existence. There is no disobeying the command; the god compels. If eels could formulate their theories of ethics, they would be eloquent, I am sure, about the categorical imperative and the compulsive character of the sense of duty. Our categorical imperatives, like those of eels and swallows, are generally backed by the forces of an instinct. Our social instinct deters us from doing what we think would be condemned, and encourages us to do what we think would be commended by our equals, by our moral superiors, by our 'better selves,' by ' God.' But there are occasions, curiously enough, when the categorical imperative to do or refrain from doing seems to have no connection with a compulsive instinct. For example, a man writes two letters, addresses two envelopes, puts the letters into the envelopes, and seals them up. lHe is extremely careful when inserting the letters, to see that each goes into its proper envelope. Nevertheless, a few minutes later, he is seized by an irresistible desire to reopen the envelopes so as to make sure that the letter to his mistress is not in the envelope addressed to his maiden aunt, and vice versa. He knows that each letter is where it should be. But despite his conviction, despite the derisive comments of the rational part of his mind, he does reopen the envelopes. The categorical imperative is stronger than reason. It may be so strong that after five more minutes, he will open the envelopes a second time. What gives the imperative its strength in cases such as this, I am at a loss to imagine. The August cuckoo takes wing for Africa at the command of a special migratory instinct. A desire born of his social instinct, to win the approval of his fellows, of some hypostasised ' better self' or ' personal god,' makes a man act honourably in circumstances where it would be more profitable and more convenient to act dishonourably. But when a man reopens an envelope to see if it contains the letter he knows it does contain, when he gets out of bed on a cold night to make sure that he has switched off the light and bolted the doors which he clearly remembers turning out and bolting ten minutes before, no primary instinct can be invoked to account for the compulsive nature of the desire to do these irrational things. In such cases the categorical imperative seems to be morally senseless and psychologically unaccountable. It is as though a god were playing practical jokes. Srinagar THE Kashmiris are proverbial throughout India for the filthiness of their habits. Wherever a choice is offered them between cleanliness and dirt,they will infallibly choose the latter. They have a genius for filthiness. We had daily opportunities of observing the manifestations of this peculiar genius. Our compound was provided with water from the city supply. From a tap at the end of the garden we could draw the pure filtered water of the reservoir among the mountains. The water from this tap, which was left running for hours at a time, was collected in a small brick-lined tank, on which the gardener drew for the watering of his flowers. And not the gardener only. We found that our servants had an almost irresistible desire to fetch our washing and drinking water from the same source. The fresh water ran sparkling from the tap; but their instinct was to take only the standing fluid in the uncovered tank. And to what uses the tank was put I Looking out in the morning, we could see our sweeper crouching on the brink to perform his ablutions. First he washed his hands, then his feet, then his face; after that he thoroughly rinsed his mouth, gargled and spat into the tank. Then he douched his nose. And when that was finished, he scooped some water in his hands and took a drink. A yard away was the tap. He preferred the tastier water of the tank. The astonishing thing is that epidemics are not more frequent and severe than is actually the case. That they are not is due, I suppose, to the powerful disinfectant action of the sunlight. Perhaps also an almost daily and domestic familiarity with the germs of typhoid and cholera has bred among Kashmiri phagocytes a healthy contempt for their attacks, together with increased powers of resistance. THE Kashmiri pandit has a more than Spanish objection to manual labour. But, unlike the hidalgo who thought himself dishonoured by the exercise of any profession save that of arms, the pandit is ambitious of wielding only the pen. He may be abjectly poor (most people are abjectly poor in Kashmir); but he will do only a pandit's work. Chauffeurs may get good wages, servants are clothed and fed; but the proud pandit had rather walk the streets begging than accept employments so derogatory to his Brahmin dignity. There are many pandits in Kashmir. They are all educated, more or less, and all equally proud. The consequence is that, in Kashmir, you can hire a clerk for about half as much as you would have to pay your cook. And not in Kashmir only. It is the same throughout the whole of India. A circus recently visited Lahore. The management advertised for gate-keepers at fifteen rupees a month. Among the applicants, I was told, were upwards of forty graduates. Mysore, the best-governed of the Indian States, finds the same difficulty in disposing of the finished products of its higher education. After having gone to the trouble of taking their degrees, the graduates of its colleges demand, almost as a right (it is only natural), the work for which their educational attainments fit them. But the work does not exist. That is the farcical tragedy of Indian education. The Universities produce a swarm of graduates, for whom there is nothing to do. The State can employ only a limited number of them, and, outside the government service, there is almost no opening for a man with the ordinary general education of the West. The industrial and commercial activities, to which most of our young educated men devote themselves, hardly exist in India. There is no available liquid capital to start such industries on a large scale, and the average educated Indian lacks the enterprise and energy to begin in a small way on his own. His ambition is to step into some safe clerical job with no responsibilities, and a pension at the end of it. A ' crammed ' education in the humanities or in pure science hardly fits him for anything else. Unhappily, the number of safe clerkships with pensions attached is strictly limited. The Indian youth steps out of the University examination hall into a vacuum. The class of educated unemployed-the class most dangerous to an established government-steadily grows. Srinagar EDUCATED Indians of the older generation have a great weakness for apophthegms, quotations, and cracker mottoes. They punctuate their conversation with an occasional ' As the Persian poet so beautifully puts it ': then follows a string of incomprehensible syllables, with their appended translation, which generally embodies some such gem of human wisdom as 'Honesty is the best policy,' or 'The higher the art, the lower the morals,' or ' My uncle's house is on a hill, but I cannot eat this rotten cabbage.' Those whose education has been of a more occidental cast have Gray's Elegy, the works of Sir Edwin Arnold, and the more sententious parts of Shakespeare at their finger-tips. But among the younger Indians the quotation habit seems to be dying out. Their wisdom is diffuse and unquotable. Their minds are stored with the nebulous debris of newspaper articles, pamphlets, and popular science booklets, not with heroic couplets. It is the same with us in the West. Latin tags issue from the mouths only of the aged. The days when Virgil and Horace were bandied from one side of the House of Commons to the other are past. Latin with us, like Persian among the Indians, is a deader language than it was a century, even a generation ago. Even the English classics are rarely quoted now. Young people trot out their Shakespeare less frequently than do their elders. The reason, I suppose, is this: we read so much, that we have lost the art of remembering. Indeed, most of what we read is nonsense, and not meant to be remembered. The man who remembered the social paragraphs in his morning paper would deserve to be sent to an asylum. So it comes about that we forget even that which is not worthy of oblivion. Moreover, to young people brought up in this queer provisional patchwork age of ours, and saturated with its spirit, it seems absurd to collect the rags of thought bequeathed by other and, they feel, utterly different ages. What is the use of knowing, in I925, that 'when lovely woman stoops to folly,' the best, the only thing she can do ' is to die'? What is the good of asserting baldly that 'the quality of mercy is not strained,'that ' God 's in His heaven, all 's right with the world'? These poetical statements have no meaning for us. When lovely woman stoops to folly, we do not think of death - we think of suppressed complexes and birth-control and the rights of the unmarried mother. About the quality of mercy we have our own contemporary ideas; how we regard it depends on whether we are followers of Gandhi on the one hand, or of Sorel, Lenin, and Mussolini on the other. It falleth as the gentle dew from heaven; it is twice blest. No doubt. But what is this to us, who have our peculiar problems about the rights and wrongs of violence to decide in our own way? And what meaning for us have those airy assertions about God? God, we psychologists know, is a sensation in the pit of the stomach, hypostasised; God, the personal God of Browning and the modern theologian, is the gratuitous intellectualist interpretation of immediate psycho - physiological experiences. The experiences are indubitably true for those who feel them; but the interpretation of them in terms of Browning's personal God is illogical and unjustifiable. No, decidedly, the cracker mottoes of the ancients are of no use to us. We need our own tags and catch-words. The preceding paragraph is full of them: complex, birth-control, violence for an idea, psychology, and the rest. Few of these words or of the ideas for which they stand have yet found their way into poetry. For example, God, the intellectually interpreted sensation in the pit of the stomach, has not yet been crystallised into couplets. His home is still the text-book, the Hibbert Journal article. Like most of the rest of our ideas He is unquotable. The ancients were able to build up their notions of the world at large round an elegant poetical skeleton. L Less fortunate, we have only a collection of scientific, or sham-scientific, words and phrases to serve as the framework of our philosophy of life. Our minds and our conversation are consequently less elegant than those of our fathers, whose ideas had crystallised round such pleasing phrases as ' Sunt lacrimae rerum,' ' I could not love thee, dear, so much, loved I not honour more,' and ' A sense of something far more deeply interfused.' Some day, it may be, a poet will be found to reduce our catch-words to memorable artistic form. By that time, however, they will probably be as meaninglessly out-of-date as the cracker mottoes of the classics. Srinagar SRINAGAR owns a large population of sacred cows and bulls that wander vaguely through the streets, picking up such vegetable garbage, grass, and fallen leaves as they can find. They are small beaststhe half of good-sized English cattle-and marvellously mild. Red rags mean nothing to these little bulls, they can be trusted in china shopseven in nurseries. Liberty, underfeeding, and unlimited access to the females of their species account, no doubt, for this surprising gentleness. But, though harmless, these Hindu totems are passively a nuisance. They will not attack you as you walk or drive along the streets, but neither will they get out of your way. They stand there, meditatively ruminating, in the middle of the road, and no shouting, no ringing of bells or hooting of horns will send them away. Not until you are right on top of them will they move. The fact is, of course, that they know their own sacredness. They have learned by long experience that they can stand in the road as much as they like and that, however furiously the klaxon sounds, nothing will ever happen to them. Nothing; for Kashmir, though its inhabitants are mostly Mohammedans, is ruled by a pious Hindu dynasty. Up till a few years ago a man who killed a cow was sentenced to death. Under a milder dispensation he now gets only a matter of seven years' penal servitude. A salutary fear of cows is rooted in the breast of every Kashmiri chauffeur. And the totems know it. With a majestic impertinence they stroll along the middle of the roads. When one is a god, one does not disturb oneself for the convenience of mere man, however importunate. To the eye of pure reason there is something singularly illogical about the way in which the Hindus shrink from killing cows or eating their flesh when dead, but have no scruples about making the life of the sacred beasts, by their ill-treatment, a hell on earth. So strict is the orthodoxy of Kashmir, that Bovril is confiscated at the frontier, and sportsmen are forbidden to shoot the wild nilgai, which is not bovine at all, but happens to be miscalled the ' blue cow '; the very name is sacred. And yet nothing is done to protect these god-like animals from any cruelty that does not actually result in death. They are underfed and, when used as draft animals, mercilessly overdriven. When the goad fails to make them move, their driver will seize them by the tail and, going through the motions of one who tries to start up a Ford car, violently twist. In winter, when fodder runs short, the Kashmiris pack their beasts together in a confined space until they begin to sweat, then turn them out into the snow, in the hope that they will catch pneumonia and die. To the eye of reason, I repeat it, it certainly seems strange. But then the majority of human actions are not meant to be looked at with the eye of reason. Srinagar IT takes the Tartar traders six weeks of walking to get from Kashgar to Srinagar. They start with their yaks and ponies in the early autumn, when the passes are still free from snow and the rivers, swollen in summer by its melting, have subsided to fordableness. They walk into Kashmir, and from Kashmir into India. They spend the winter in India, sell what they have brought, and in the following spring, when the passes are once more open, go back into Turkestan with a load of Indian and European fabrics, velvet and plush and ordinary cotton, which they sell for fabulous profit in their own country. We paid a visit to the Central Asian sarai at Srinagar where the Tartars halt for a rest on their way down into India. A dozen merchants with their servants were encamped there: strange Mongolian men, high-booted, trousered, jerkined in thick cloth or sheepskin. They showed us their wares: carpets, costly and cheap, from Kashgar and the other oasis cities of the Tarim basin; coarse felt mats, on which were rudely printed in red and blue the most exquisite designs; hand-woven and hand-printed cottons from Turkestan; Chinese silks, jade and crystal; furs. We bought a rug of the poorest quality, a thing of more cotton than wool, but superbly patterned in colours that were none the less beautiful for being manifestly aniline. Also a felt mat in the design of which a Greek decorative motive played a leading part. That identity of the contemporary with the ancient and classical form-was it due to the coincidence of reinvention, to a modern importation from the West? Or was it due, as I liked to think it was, to the survival, through centuries of change and tumult and in spite of invasions and slaughters, of the art which Alexander's adventurous successors, the despots of Central Asia, implanted in that once flourishing land beyond the mountains? I do not know why it should be so; but there is something -peculiarly romantic about caravans and the slow commerce of pedestrians. The spectacle of a hundred laden yaks or ponies is enough to fire the imagination; of a hundred laden trucks leaves us entirely cold. We take no interest in the merchant who sends his goods by train; but the pedestrian merchant seems to us an almost beautiful and heroic figure. And the aura of romance which surrounded the Tartars was brightened in our eyes when they showed us their medium of exchange. Diving down into the recesses of their greasy clothing, they pulled out for our in spection glittering handfuls of gold. We examined the coins. They were Russian ten-rouble pieces of before the Revolution, all bright and new. The head of the Tsar stood sharply out on them, as though they had but yesterday issued from the Imperial mint. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 10:47:26 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:17:26 +0700 Subject: [Reader-list] The Ladakh confluence Message-ID: http://theconfluence.in/ The Ladakh Confluence is a labour of love, put together by a bunch of experienced professionals committed to making a dream come true. Some of us are 9-to-9ers, some freelance, some are in the process of leaving their jobs and others are just about starting their own companies. We live in different places and bring different skills to the table, but all of us love music, the Earth and a better way. The Ladakh Confluence is our chance to find new solutions to old issues, to help Ladakh find a sustainable way forward while preserving its ancient culture and tradition, to bring artists, musicians, intelligent minds and beautiful spirits together in a creative way, to merge energies and move feet. Join us in our collective effort – buy a ticket, play a song, share an art or a skill, donate funds, time, energy, love, wisdom and hot tea. See you at the Confluence! Call for Artists and Musicians here http://theconfluence.in/2009/07/re-opening-call-to-artists-musicians/ From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 11:53:41 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:53:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote Now In-Reply-To: <856657.30861.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70907270614p21bd6ee7h8312aaa5ff9fb074@mail.gmail.com> <856657.30861.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907272323o22e4a7aaj645987f238a8497e@mail.gmail.com> An overwhelming % of people seem to be supporting the idea that more state assemblies , on line of MP state , should pass a resolution supporting carving out a Union Territory for Kashmiri Hindus in Kashmir. The result so far are Yes : 93% No : 4% Can't say : 3% You can still vote , please visit www.thekashmir.wordpress.com Pawan On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > YES! > > vedavati > > --- On Mon, 27/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: [Reader-list] Vote Now > To: "reader-list" > Date: Monday, 27 July, 2009, 9:14 PM > > Should other state legislative assemblies also pass a resolution supporting > a separate Homeland for Kashmiri Hindu Refugees in Kashmir ? > > Vote online on the above Question > > Vote Here :  www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > ________________________________ > Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 12:31:46 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote Now In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907272323o22e4a7aaj645987f238a8497e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907270614p21bd6ee7h8312aaa5ff9fb074@mail.gmail.com> <856657.30861.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <6b79f1a70907272323o22e4a7aaj645987f238a8497e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907280001k4c4efca7l37ad6f6461c6144b@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, One of the recent development in the nation has been to carve out states, smaller, out of bigger states, the idea supported by many, that such formation will enable better governance, catering to regional aspirations of the local, regional people. But what is the truth. ? After formation of such state, the ruling party, mainly Congress has lost its presence in governance to regional parties, or BJP, funds from centre for the relief to the people has always been blocked by the Congress party for partisan considerations, be it Kosi floods, naxal menace or sea erosion in different states. Only if the regional satraps are amenable to the Congress party, the demands for funds, genuine or otherwise have been met, be it in Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Orissa, Uttaranchal or West Bengal. Thus the UPA has been instrumental in promoting regional separation, bias and invokong passions between the federal states, be it with shared resources of rivers, mining or forest and flora and fauna.In the circumstanes, Srinagar which is now ravages by terror acts and violence, was the money spinner for the state with tourists, mainly from other states of the nation, a small percentage from abroad, is already in dumps with lesser tourist traffic thanks to leaders like Mehbooba Mufti and her goon brigade in league with separatists.A separate union territoy for kashmiri hindus is not practically feasible with the type of secularism sponsored by the system of governance, as other kashmiris , mainly muslims, silent ones who do not wish to be in terror, are in all other states with kashmiri clothes,shawls,handicrafts and selling there goods in those states. Initially, they come for business and to live with dignity and decent earning, but slowly and steadily, the friday namaz for these in local mosques have turned them, on filled belly, to be sleeper cells for terror. The local police also took lenient view to start with, as these young men, seemingly are well behaved, do their sales, business with local population, but later buy houses in all the states where they are in business, later supporting for the faith by giving sheltor to deviant minds of the religious faithful.When all this is happening, the other people of the states can not buy land in the state of jammu and kashmir, those hindus in kashmir have to bear the brunt of inhuman religious faithfuls., prefer to settle in other states like those muslims who do not wish to be part of game of violence. What is the guarantee that this will not happen in the territory formed for kashmiri hindu migrants.? Better approach would be, for the state and central administration to be firm with separatists, remove the kid gloves worn in tackling these deviants, let the law take firm action on traitors of the nation, and also their voices, which claim secular for human rights of inhumans. Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > An overwhelming % of people seem to be supporting the idea that more > state assemblies , on line of MP state , should pass a resolution > supporting carving out a Union Territory for Kashmiri Hindus in > Kashmir. > > The result so far are > > Yes : 93% > > No : 4% > > Can't say : 3% > > You can still vote , please visit www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > Pawan > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Vedavati Jogi > wrote: > > YES! > > > > vedavati > > > > --- On Mon, 27/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > From: Pawan Durani > > Subject: [Reader-list] Vote Now > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Monday, 27 July, 2009, 9:14 PM > > > > Should other state legislative assemblies also pass a resolution > supporting > > a separate Homeland for Kashmiri Hindu Refugees in Kashmir ? > > > > Vote online on the above Question > > > > Vote Here : www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > ________________________________ > > Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Tue Jul 28 14:18:33 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:18:33 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release Message-ID: <785756.23397.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> please circulate widely. kabi ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Kamayani Sent: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009 1:04:33 PM Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release > > >Greetings! > > >The Association for > Women's Rights in Development (AWID), an international > feminist membership organization with individual and > institutional members in 165 countries around the world, is > gravely concerned by the violent arrest of our colleague > Shadi Sadr on the morning of Friday July 17th 2009. > > > >A lawyer and prominent women's rights activist, Shadi > Sadr was stopped on a busy Tehran street, beaten and dragged > off in a car by plainclothes agents who produced no > identification or warrant. No reason has yet been provided > for her detention. Her lawyer has not been allowed to > communicate with her, and efforts to post bail for her have > so far been unsuccessful. > >Shadi Sadr is the founder > of Zanan-e-Iran (Women in Iran), the first website > highlighting the work of women's rights activists in the > country, and the former director of the Raahi Legal Centre > for women, which was shut down by Iranian authorities in > 2007. She is also a key member of Meydaan (Women's Field), > the Stop Stoning Forever Campaign, and the One Million > Signatures Campaign, and has been actively involved in > women's rights networks including Women Living under Muslim > Laws and AWID. > >Our concern over the unlawful > abduction of Shadi Sadr is compounded by fears for her > health, as she suffers from a serious glandular and bone > condition that requires prescription medication, and for > which she is due to undergo surgery in the coming week. > > >Shadi Sadr's clients are also being negatively > impacted by the situation.. The illegal detention has caused > her to miss the court date of one client who is potentially > facing the death penalty. > >Recognizing the central > role of women's human rights defenders in the building and > strengthening of democracy around the world, AWID believes > that all States must ensure that their rights are protected.. > > >We call upon AWID's members and allies to take > action and mobilize your networks in solidarity and support > of Shadi Sadr and all those whose peaceful and non-violent > dissent has rendered them subject to unjust persecution in > Iran. > >Please contact local and international media, > and write to policy makers and the Iranian mission in your > country, as well as the Iranian authorities and the Iranian > Bar. You can also write to the UN Secretary General Ban > Ki-moon and High Commissioner for Human Rights Navanethem > Pillay, and urge them to take action to protect basic human > rights in Iran. > >Your letter can: > > * Call for the unconditional and immediate release of > Shadi Sadr, as she is a prisoner of conscience, held > solely for her human rights activities and the peaceful > exercise of her rights to freedom of expression; > > * Ensure that she is allowed immediate access to her > family, lawyer of her choice, and any medical treatment > she may require, especially as she has a reported > pre-existing medical condition; > > * Urge the Iranian authorities to ensure that Shadi Sadr > and all other detainees are protected from all forms of > torture or ill treatment; and > > * Call on the authorities to remove unlawful > restrictions on freedoms of expression, association and > assembly in Iran and put an end to the repression of > demonstrations against the current Iranian government and > their stance on the recent elections..RECIPIENTS' > LIST: > >The Honorable Ban Ki-moon >Secretary > General >760 United Nations Plaza >United Nations >New > York, NY 10017 >Web contact: http://www.un.org/en/contactus/contactform.asp > >Ms. > Navanethem Pillay >UN High Commissioner for Human > Rights >Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > Human Rights (OHCHR) >Palais des Nations >CH-1211 Geneva > 10, Switzerland >Email: infodesk at ohchr.org >Fax: > +41 22 917 9008 or +1 212 963 4097 >Tel: +41 22 917 > 9000 > >Ms. Margaret Sekaggya >Special Rapporteur on > the Situation of Human Rights Defenders >E-mail: urgent-action at ohchr.org >The text of the > e-mail should refer to the human rights defenders > mandate. >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 (Geneva, > Switzerland) >Tel: +41 22 917 1234 >This is the number > for the United Nations telephone operator in Geneva, > Switzerland. Callers should ask to speak with staff at the > Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human > Rights dealing with the special procedures of the Human > Rights, and specifically with staff supporting the mandate > of the Special Rapporteur on human rights defenders. Please > see here for further details about filing complaints to the > Special Rapporteur: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/issues/defenders/complaints.htm > >Working > Group on Arbitrary Detention >c/o Office of the UN High > Commissioner for Human Rights >United Nations Office at > Geneva >CH-1211, Geneva 10 >Switzerland >Fax: +41 22 > 917 9006 >See model questionnaire here: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs26.htm#A5 > >The > Special Rapporteur on Violence against > Women >OHCHR-UNOG >8-14 Avenue de la Paix >CH-1211, > Geneva 10 >Switzerland >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 >E-mail: > urgent-action at ohchr.org >Leader of the > Islamic Republic >Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei >The > Office of the Supreme Leader >Islamic Republic Street, end > of Shahid Keshvar Doust Street >Tehran, Islamic Republic > of Iran >Email: via website: http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/index.php?p=letter > (English) >or http://www.leader.ir/langs/fa/index.php?p=letter > (Persian) >Salutation: Your Excellency > >Head of the > Judiciary >Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi >Howzeh > Riyasat-e-Qoveh Qazaiyeh (Office of the Head of the > Judiciary) >Pasteur St., Vali Asr Ave., south of > Serah-e-Jomhouri >Tehran 1316814737, Islamic Republic of > Iran >Email: shahroudi at dadgostary-tehran.ir >This > e-mail address is being protected from spambots.. You need > Java Script enabled to view it (In the subject line write: > FAO Ayatollah Shahroudi) >Salutation: Your > Excellency > >And copies to: > >Iranian Bar > Association >No. 3, Zagros St., Argentina Sq. >Tehran, > Islamic Republic of Iran >Fax: +98 21 8771340 or +98 21 > 888 6425 / 26 >Email: tamas at iranbar.org >This e-mail address > is being protected from spambots. You need Java Script > enabled to view it or mail at iranbar.org > >And the Iranian > embassy in your country (NB: recommend telephoning and > faxing before letter-writing) >http://www.embassiesabroad.com/embassies-of/Iran > > >Regards > >AWID > > >See statement on > AWID's web > site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This email was sent to rodighar at wlink.com.np by contact at awid.org. >Update Profile/Email Address | > Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by >AWID | 215 Spadina Ave Suite 150 > | Toronto | Ontario | M5T 2C7 | > Canada _________________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber to the cedaw4change discussion group. To be removed from the list, send any message to: cedaw4change-unsubscribe at list.iwraw-ap.org For all list information and functions, including changing your subscription mode and options, please visit: http://list.iwraw-ap.org/lists/info/cedaw4change _________________________________________________________________ ....... This list powered by http://NPOGroups.org: ........... ... Group communications and list service for nonprofits .... -- I carry a torch in one hand And a bucket of water in the other: With these things I am going to set fire to Heaven And put out the flames of Hell So that voyagers to God can rip the veils And see the real goal................... .By Rabia (Rabi'a Al-'Adawiyya) Adv Kamayani Bali Mahabal Mobile-00919820749204 skype:lawyercumactivist www.binayaksen.net www.phm-india.org www.phmovement.org www.ifhhro.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Citizen-Mumbai" group. To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- _________________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber to the cedaw4change discussion group. To be removed from the list, send any message to: cedaw4change-unsubscribe at list.iwraw-ap.org For all list information and functions, including changing your subscription mode and options, please visit: http://list.iwraw-ap.org/lists/info/cedaw4change _________________________________________________________________ ....... This list powered by http://NPOGroups.org: .......... ... Group communications and list service for nonprofits .... From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 14:33:53 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:33:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mali's Gift Economy Message-ID: *Mali's Gift Economy* by Beverly Bell http://www.yesmagazine.org/economies/malis-gift-economy?utm_source=27jul09&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=15_Mali Excerpts: Coumba says, “If you ask any number of people how they live, what they eat, where they get what they wear, you would quickly notice that most of it has been given by someone.” *dama* is a time-honored, well-honed means of keeping away hunger, prolonged illness, and early death. It provides the social safety net which the state—egged on by the World Bank and IMF—has neglected: a working health system, social security for the elders, education, and child care. In addition to trying to prevent anyone from being too poor, yet another purpose of *dama* is to prevent most everyone from becoming too rich. While in the U.S. there often exists social reinforcement to accumulate as much as possible, with wealth and the wealthy frequently being revered, in Mali the cultural norm is to give away as much of your accumulation as possible, with generosity and the generous being most respected. The social pressure to give acts as a disincentive to hoard, or what we call save. Coumba offers, “Being rich here means that the person has abandoned his or her values, that he or she is not giving enough to the needs around. People really start worrying about what has happened to that person.” From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 17:22:55 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:22:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release In-Reply-To: <785756.23397.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <785756.23397.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907280452k4b705825g1f70cd664e08f24d@mail.gmail.com> Nothing can be done, until there is a marked change in the hardline religious fanacitcs attitude. Murali V On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM, kabi cubby sherman wrote: > please circulate widely. > > kabi > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: Kamayani > Sent: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009 1:04:33 PM > Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release > > > > > > > > >Greetings! > > > > > >The Association for > > Women's Rights in Development (AWID), an international > > feminist membership organization with individual and > > institutional members in 165 countries around the > world, is > > gravely concerned by the violent arrest of our > colleague > > Shadi Sadr on the morning of Friday July 17th 2009. > > > > > > > >A lawyer and prominent women's rights activist, Shadi > > Sadr was stopped on a busy Tehran street, beaten and > dragged > > off in a car by plainclothes agents who produced no > > identification or warrant. No reason has yet been > provided > > for her detention. Her lawyer has not been allowed to > > communicate with her, and efforts to post bail for her > have > > so far been unsuccessful. > > > >Shadi Sadr is the founder > > of Zanan-e-Iran (Women in Iran), the first website > > highlighting the work of women's rights activists in > the > > country, and the former director of the Raahi Legal > Centre > > for women, which was shut down by Iranian authorities > in > > 2007. She is also a key member of Meydaan (Women's > Field), > > the Stop Stoning Forever Campaign, and the One Million > > Signatures Campaign, and has been actively involved in > > women's rights networks including Women Living under > Muslim > > Laws and AWID. > > > >Our concern over the unlawful > > abduction of Shadi Sadr is compounded by fears for her > > health, as she suffers from a serious glandular and > bone > > condition that requires prescription medication, and > for > > which she is due to undergo surgery in the coming > week. > > > > > >Shadi Sadr's clients are also being negatively > > impacted by the situation.. The illegal detention has > caused > > her to miss the court date of one client who is > potentially > > facing the death penalty. > > > >Recognizing the central > > role of women's human rights defenders in the building > and > > strengthening of democracy around the world, AWID > believes > > that all States must ensure that their rights are > protected.. > > > > > >We call upon AWID's members and allies to take > > action and mobilize your networks in solidarity and > support > > of Shadi Sadr and all those whose peaceful and > non-violent > > dissent has rendered them subject to unjust > persecution in > > Iran. > > > >Please contact local and international media, > > and write to policy makers and the Iranian mission in > your > > country, as well as the Iranian authorities and the > Iranian > > Bar. You can also write to the UN Secretary General > Ban > > Ki-moon and High Commissioner for Human Rights > Navanethem > > Pillay, and urge them to take action to protect basic > human > > rights in Iran. > > > >Your letter can: > > > > * Call for the unconditional and immediate release of > > Shadi Sadr, as she is a prisoner of conscience, held > > solely for her human rights activities and the > peaceful > > exercise of her rights to freedom of expression; > > > > * Ensure that she is allowed immediate access to her > > family, lawyer of her choice, and any medical > treatment > > she may require, especially as she has a reported > > pre-existing medical condition; > > > > * Urge the Iranian authorities to ensure that Shadi Sadr > > and all other detainees are protected from all forms > of > > torture or ill treatment; and > > > > * Call on the authorities to remove unlawful > > restrictions on freedoms of expression, association > and > > assembly in Iran and put an end to the repression of > > demonstrations against the current Iranian > government and > > their stance on the recent elections..RECIPIENTS' > > LIST: > > > >The Honorable Ban Ki-moon > >Secretary > > General > >760 United Nations Plaza > >United Nations > >New > > York, NY 10017 > >Web contact: http://www.un.org/en/contactus/contactform.asp > > > >Ms. > > Navanethem Pillay > >UN High Commissioner for Human > > Rights > >Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > > Human Rights (OHCHR) > >Palais des Nations > >CH-1211 Geneva > > 10, Switzerland > >Email: infodesk at ohchr.org > >Fax: > > +41 22 917 9008 or +1 212 963 4097 > >Tel: +41 22 917 > > 9000 > > > >Ms. Margaret Sekaggya > >Special Rapporteur on > > the Situation of Human Rights Defenders > >E-mail: urgent-action at ohchr.org > >The text of the > > e-mail should refer to the human rights defenders > > mandate. > >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 (Geneva, > > Switzerland) > >Tel: +41 22 917 1234 > >This is the number > > for the United Nations telephone operator in Geneva, > > Switzerland. Callers should ask to speak with staff at > the > > Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > Human > > Rights dealing with the special procedures of the > Human > > Rights, and specifically with staff supporting the > mandate > > of the Special Rapporteur on human rights defenders. > Please > > see here for further details about filing complaints > to the > > Special Rapporteur: > http://www2.ohchr.org/english/issues/defenders/complaints.htm > > > >Working > > Group on Arbitrary Detention > >c/o Office of the UN High > > Commissioner for Human Rights > >United Nations Office at > > Geneva > >CH-1211, Geneva 10 > >Switzerland > >Fax: +41 22 > > 917 9006 > >See model questionnaire here: > http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs26.htm#A5 > > > >The > > Special Rapporteur on Violence against > > Women > >OHCHR-UNOG > >8-14 Avenue de la Paix > >CH-1211, > > Geneva 10 > >Switzerland > >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 > >E-mail: > > urgent-action at ohchr.org > >Leader of the > > Islamic Republic > >Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei > >The > > Office of the Supreme Leader > >Islamic Republic Street, end > > of Shahid Keshvar Doust Street > >Tehran, Islamic Republic > > of Iran > >Email: via website: http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/index.php?p=letter > > (English) > >or http://www.leader.ir/langs/fa/index.php?p=letter > > (Persian) > >Salutation: Your Excellency > > > >Head of the > > Judiciary > >Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi > >Howzeh > > Riyasat-e-Qoveh Qazaiyeh (Office of the Head of the > > Judiciary) > >Pasteur St., Vali Asr Ave., south of > > Serah-e-Jomhouri > >Tehran 1316814737, Islamic Republic of > > Iran > >Email: shahroudi at dadgostary-tehran.ir > >This > > e-mail address is being protected from spambots.. You > need > > Java Script enabled to view it (In the subject line > write: > > FAO Ayatollah Shahroudi) > >Salutation: Your > > Excellency > > > >And copies to: > > > >Iranian Bar > > Association > >No. 3, Zagros St., Argentina Sq. > >Tehran, > > Islamic Republic of Iran > >Fax: +98 21 8771340 or +98 21 > > 888 6425 / 26 > >Email: tamas at iranbar.org > >This e-mail address > > is being protected from spambots. You need Java Script > > enabled to view it or mail at iranbar.org > > > >And the Iranian > > embassy in your country (NB: recommend telephoning and > > faxing before letter-writing) > >http://www.embassiesabroad.com/embassies-of/Iran > > > > > >Regards > > > >AWID > > > > > >See statement on > > AWID's web > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This email was sent to rodighar at wlink.com.np by contact at awid.org. > >Update Profile/Email Address | > > Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. > Email Marketing by > >AWID | 215 Spadina Ave Suite 150 > > | Toronto | Ontario | M5T 2C7 | > > Canada > _________________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber to the cedaw4change > discussion group. > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > cedaw4change-unsubscribe at list.iwraw-ap.org > > For all list information and functions, including changing > your subscription mode and options, please visit: > > http://list.iwraw-ap.org/lists/info/cedaw4change > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ....... This list powered by http://NPOGroups.org: ........... > ... Group communications and list service for nonprofits .... > > > > > -- > I carry a torch in one hand > And a bucket of water in the other: > With these things I am going to set fire to Heaven > And put out the flames of Hell > So that voyagers to God can rip the veils > And see the real goal................... > .By Rabia (Rabi'a Al-'Adawiyya) > > Adv Kamayani Bali Mahabal > Mobile-00919820749204 > skype:lawyercumactivist > > www.binayaksen.net > www.phm-india.org > www.phmovement.org > www.ifhhro.org > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Citizen-Mumbai" group. > To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 28 18:15:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:45:51 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907221437p7fe5d790p60fc1c673a3f8102@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907280545q56d183bbu1c452bf017dc124f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pankhuree, Thank you for responding. I think your imagination of a possibility that, " Maybe it is not that India's poor will be instantly transformed into consumers, maybe it is possible they will be consumed" might not be entirely incorrect. However the terms of such a consumption might be both voluntarily and coercive or a combination of both. For instance, I do not think that all those who 'donate' their organs to other people, do it willfully. or for that matter, all those who donate have access to the internet. ID cards in such a manner could work in a counter productive manner too, that a service could be consumed by those who put in the lowest bid. An assumption behind this argument could be, that since information is the key and the access to information related to the-producers-of-service is with the consumers or handlers ( the go-between people) then ID cards with all its tall claims might only work in favor of few consumers. ID card is a knowledge game. Information is being harvested from one and all in the name of security, poverty and efficiency. The process of harvesting this information is infested with private vendors. The management of this information, in all likelihood will therefore go to private vendors too. Of course this type of information will be of immense use to the corporates but, I think, in the long run, it will depend on how this information permeates the public realm. I like your reference to possible future scenarios developed by Ms Klein and yes I think if that were to happen ID cards will play a big role. Precisely because of the fact, that ID cards, especially of the contact less variety, are crucial to the politics of regulating access. Who is in and who is out will depend on the number they will have. Social sorting also becomes relatively easy with ID cards and this is something not unknown to players in say, mobile/cell phone business. How social sorting will be incorporated in policies of the State will, I think, be known to us in near future? So yes scary, it will be, but I do not know how different that scare will be from say, scare that some people face now. When there is gating of colonies in cities like Delhi and the guards manning the gates are instructed to allow people with less or no questioning who fit in a particular social profile and subject to detailed questioning all those 'other' people, who do not look a particular social type. I think that scare may be absorbed in the everyday and people might somehow develop a way around it either by imbibing a change in terms of access or maybe by resisting it or incorporating it or perhaps by overpowering such technology by using processes like reverse engineering. Maybe the culture of scare spilling from the side of the State which assimilates shades of benignity and concern and could be punitive too is the one which needs to looked into carefully. Not necessarily of the material sorts but of the ideational sorts. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 28 18:56:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:26:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Bill Gates' fix for India's ills: technology- 171 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907280626v80d5d02uf1c661b5d3ea457c@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Makes me wonder if Mr. Gates could provide us some technology for more Latrines and more opportunities for mass Labor but if this spin by Shri Mehul Srivastava is to be believed then Mr. Gates could actually help us in helping ourselves. Going by some accounts 'Technology can alleviate poverty', it seems. Warm regards Taha http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/business/0,39044229,62056427,00.htm Bill Gates' fix for India's ills: technology By Mehul Srivastava , BusinessWeek Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:17 PM It may seem a bit far-fetched and naive, but Bill Gates thinks he has the solutions for India's biggest challenges. How can the country solve its healthcare problems, the nightmare of distributing vaccines, and the shortage of doctors? Technology, he says. Alleviate poverty and streamline public distribution of food rations? Try technology, he suggests. How about providing the urban poor with jobs? You guessed it: technology. The idea that low-cost technological innovations could transform the lives of the poor has long been the Holy Grail of India's information technology and scientific boffins. With their country boasting nearly 7 million people working in one of the most modern IT industries in the world, Indians seem convinced that one of these days a technology-based solution will help the country vault over decades of government neglect. "India is taking its self-confidence, [the realization] that it is very innovative, and now saying let's invest in ourselves," said Microsoft Chairman and former CEO Bill Gates, speaking at a business forum on Jul. 23 in New Delhi before picking up an award from the Indian government. "In spite of the tough times, this country hasn't said let's pull back on investing in the future." To some extent, India has been a bit of a proving ground for cheap technology. Motorola tried producing a US$14 cell phone with a screen that resembled that of older alarm clocks. It flopped. The Indian government's attempts to wire the countryside were also a bust. It tried to bring the Internet to rural areas, but with unreliable electricity, irregular phone lines, and widespread illiteracy, that project folded two years ago. "For whatever reason--the idea came too early, it cost too much, or it tried too much--these technology solutions have been mostly distractions," said Anand Tiwari, a professor at the Indian Institute of Technology who studies the rural-urban digital divide. Farmers use text messaging Such missteps haven't discouraged Gates from pushing ahead with his Indian plans. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the largest charitable trust in the world based on assets, handed out a US$1 million grant in early June to Maryland's CHF International to set up a labor network for the nearly 90 million urban workers. (In one of India's largest health initiatives, the foundation has spent nearly US$1 billion on HIV/AIDS prevention and other development projects.) The idea is to provide some sort of a formal connection between those who hire unskilled laborers and the laborers themselves. "These workers have nothing consistent and long-lasting," said Brian English, CHF's India director. LabourNet, or the network CHF plans to build, "is a bridge to giving them rights and jobs using cellular technology to facilitate it", said English, who said the service allows the workers to get better jobs because it shows them all the available work in specific markets. This approach has worked well for others. A Web site called Babajob.com set up three years ago in Bangalore, India's IT capital, helps daily wage earners and domestic workers--easily the most exploited of India's labor force--find employers online, with the Web site assisting them with references, bank accounts and insurance. The problem is that Internet access is a hurdle for most workers who have to visit CHF's offices to register. The group plans to overcome that by allowing urban poor to input data with more accessible cell phones. With Web penetration still in the single digits in urban areas and far less in the countryside, people are looking more closely at mobile phones, which in India are cheaper to use than almost anywhere in the world. Farmers in Maharashtra, a western Indian state, use text messaging-based technology to track food prices in faraway markets, helping them negotiate with middlemen. Promise of national ID project But the reach of almost all of these technology-heavy projects is limited, small enough that they qualify as no more than pilots. The most ambitious effort, which began last week, is the Unique Identification project, which aims to provide 1.2 billion Indians with something they've never had before--universally accepted proof of their identity. Headed by Nandan Nilekani, the ex-CEO and a co-founder of Infosys, the idea is that an ID card with a microchip or a verifiable numerical code could curb corruption, help with bank accounts, generate access to social services, and keep track of the administration of vaccines and health issues. "I am really excited about the national identity project," said Gates, who believes Microsoft would bid for contracts in implementing the program. "The government has picked somebody with a lot of energy and intelligence, and the number of applications that can come out of that are [huge]." In the end, say critics, the card is just a card. India's problems run deeper, ranging from a seemingly indifferent government and widespread corruption to just not enough money to go around. India's investment per capita on health care is among the lowest in the world, and even though the current government promises to build as many as 20 kilometers (12.4 miles) of new roads a day, its infrastructure is still far behind those of its peers. Instead, the government is also looking in a direction that may seem backward: In a world enthralled with social networking, e-mail, and YouTube, it launched a massive plan to upgrade about 1,800 Indian post offices. "More people use mail than e-mail," said Sachin Pilot, a minister for communications and IT. "And even though [cell-phone usage] is rising, as a government, our priority is to provide access where markets don't." From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 28 18:42:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:12:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] India's new antipoverty measure: national ID card- 170 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907280612w583d6c70y9a93e6fbb19404b2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Here's how the CSM is spinning the ID story for it's readers. The primary concern is of course that of our -poor- which is followed by bytes from Nandu, Tom Friedman, Rasmu who is a migrant laborer, Salik Ram who works as a begger, Mehender Kumar who sorts rubbish, and Jean Dreze, the economist. To me it seemed like a -wow- story. Like Wow!! these Indians are doing something even in these depressing times and so on. Kindly read on and please comment. Warm regards Taha PS: One expected some sanity from CSM atleast. This was perhaps best underscored by not including a single word from NxP people or Infi gang or TCS crowd or Bartronics network, where perhaps the real excitement is- http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0727/p06s07-wosc.html India's new antipoverty measure: national ID card India's new antipoverty measure: national ID card The card's introduction, one of the largest IT projects in the world, will eliminate a patchwork of local IDs and is meant to improve the delivery of social services to the poor. By Mian Ridge | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor New Delhi - Rasmu is happy she moved to New Delhi, where she and her five small children live in a tarpaulin-and-cardboard shack. Back home in rural Madhya Pradesh, central India, she was unemployed; in the Indian capital she has become a road-builder, earning 2,500 rupees ($52) a month. Besides her parents, there is one thing she misses, however, from home: the cut-price rice, wheat, and oil she was entitled to there. Like millions of migrants to India's cities, Rasmu has found her identification documents mean nothing outside her native state. The Below Poverty Line (BPL) card that once helped her children eat is now just a scrap of paper. It is cases like this that have led India's government to introduce an ambitious new project: a new national identity card that will be issued to every one of the billion-plus population. Unlike India's other innumerable forms of ID – from birth certificates to tax codes – the new card will be recognized everywhere in the country. It will feature biometric details that will quickly enable identity checks. It will link to a vast database, accessible by numerous government agencies. And its introduction will constitute one of the world's biggest IT projects. Unlike most government initiatives designed to tackle poverty, the ID card scheme has won near universal approval. "This is long overdue and much, much, much needed to improve the delivery of public services, something we have been particularly deficient at," says Surjit Bhalla, an economist. Failures of antipoverty programs lead to skepticism Poverty reduction is one of the big promises of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who returned to power for a second term in May. But antipoverty schemes are almost always greeted with skepticism here because of the vast quantities of cash that never make it to the intended recipients. While the government spends a tenth of its budget on subsidies, economists reckon more than half miss the target. Take Mehender Kumar, a father of three who earns 3,000 rupees ($63) a month rifling through heaps of rubbish in New Delhi for plastic bottles he can sell. He says he has applied for a BPL card three times – to no avail. Yet he knows several shopkeepers, he says, who earn several times his salary and possess a BPL card. The new ID card will make it easy to stop such fraud. "At the moment, leakage [of money intended for the poor] is around 60 percent but the ID card could bring it down to 10 percent," says Mr. Bhalla. "This represents huge savings for the government, but much more important, it means getting subsidies to the poor people who really need them." India chooses business entrepreneur to lead program This bold scheme will be led by Nandan Nilekani, cofounder of Infosys, one of India's biggest computer-services companies. This month he will quit Infosys to take the reins of the new Unique Identification Authority of India, a job that carries with it a rank equivalent to cabinet minister. As well as being one of India's most famous IT entrepreneurs, Mr. Nilekani is emerging as one of its more imaginative thinkers. Last year, he published a book, "Imagining India: Ideas for the New Century," that explored many of the greatest challenges facing the country. He is also known for having inspired the thesis of Thomas Friedman's work on globalization, "The World is Flat." The two men were in conversation when Nilekani described a fast-leveling playing field, sparking Mr. Friedman's idea. Many observers believe that the appointment of Nilekani suggests the government is eager to exploit the skills of India's impressive business sector in improving India's less impressive public sector. Nilekani describes the project as "very simple actually but … potentially revolutionary." He says that it could eventually have a wide range of uses, including "financial inclusion": helping the two-thirds of Indians who do not have bank accounts. Some worry system will be abused At a time of increased worry over terrorism within the country, it is also hoped that a national ID card will improve national security and intelligence gathering. Linked to this is a concern that the card system could be abused. Jean Dreze, a leading development economist who broadly approves of the scheme, says he is concerned about possible misuses, "including police surveillance. People without ID are likely to be harassed." Nilekani points out that it is yet early in the system's development and that he will work hard to "balance the benefits with the risks." He also adds that it will take some time before the system is in place. Meanwhile, many of the people to whom the ID card system will make most difference have no idea of its existence. Salik Ram, a disabled beggar who sleeps outside one of New Delhi's biggest Hindu temples, has never possessed any form of ID. "Why would I apply to the government for anything?" he says. "I'm a beggar. They don't want me here. I'll never set foot in a government office for anything." From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 22:56:55 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:56:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Distance Learning Diploma In Social Entrepreneurship from EDI, Ahmedabad Message-ID: Details here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karmayog/message/53858 The mail came from dse at ediindia.org From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 23:22:14 2009 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:22:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907280452k4b705825g1f70cd664e08f24d@mail.gmail.com> References: <785756.23397.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907280452k4b705825g1f70cd664e08f24d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Murali V wrote: > > Nothing can be done, until there is a marked change in the hardline > religious fanacitcs attitude. Nothing can be done, until there is a change in this kind of a hard line cynical attitude which believes that all change will happen only when the system changes. At least take a small step instead of giving your opinion as if it were a final pronouncement! > Murali V > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM, kabi cubby sherman wrote: > > > please circulate widely. > > > >  kabi > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > From: Kamayani > > Sent: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009 1:04:33 PM > > Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Greetings! > > > > > > > > >The Association for > > >                    Women's Rights in Development (AWID), an international > > >                    feminist membership organization with individual and > > >                    institutional members in 165 countries around the > > world, is > > >                    gravely concerned by the violent arrest of our > > colleague > > >                    Shadi Sadr on the morning of Friday July 17th 2009. > > > > > > > > > > > >A lawyer and prominent women's rights activist, Shadi > > >                    Sadr was stopped on a busy Tehran street, beaten and > > dragged > > >                    off in a car by plainclothes agents who produced no > > >                    identification or warrant. No reason has yet been > > provided > > >                    for her detention. Her lawyer has not been allowed to > > >                    communicate with her, and efforts to post bail for her > > have > > >                    so far been unsuccessful. > > > > > >Shadi Sadr is the founder > > >                    of Zanan-e-Iran (Women in Iran), the first website > > >                    highlighting the work of women's rights activists in > > the > > >                    country, and the former director of the Raahi Legal > > Centre > > >                    for women, which was shut down by Iranian authorities > > in > > >                    2007. She is also a key member of Meydaan (Women's > > Field), > > >                    the Stop Stoning Forever Campaign, and the One Million > > >                    Signatures Campaign, and has been actively involved in > > >                    women's rights networks including Women Living under > > Muslim > > >                    Laws and AWID. > > > > > >Our concern over the unlawful > > >                    abduction of Shadi Sadr is compounded by fears for her > > >                    health, as she suffers from a serious glandular and > > bone > > >                    condition that requires prescription medication, and > > for > > >                    which she is due to undergo surgery in the coming > > week. > > > > > > > > >Shadi Sadr's clients are also being negatively > > >                    impacted by the situation.. The illegal detention has > > caused > > >                    her to miss the court date of one client who is > > potentially > > >                    facing the death penalty. > > > > > >Recognizing the central > > >                    role of women's human rights defenders in the building > > and > > >                    strengthening of democracy around the world, AWID > > believes > > >                    that all States must ensure that their rights are > > protected.. > > > > > > > > >We call upon AWID's members and allies to take > > >                    action and mobilize your networks in solidarity and > > support > > >                    of Shadi Sadr and all those whose peaceful and > > non-violent > > >                    dissent has rendered them subject to unjust > > persecution in > > >                    Iran. > > > > > >Please contact local and international media, > > >                    and write to policy makers and the Iranian mission in > > your > > >                    country, as well as the Iranian authorities and the > > Iranian > > >                    Bar. You can also write to the UN Secretary General > > Ban > > >                    Ki-moon and High Commissioner for Human Rights > > Navanethem > > >                    Pillay, and urge them to take action to protect basic > > human > > >                    rights in Iran. > > > > > >Your letter can: > > > > > >       * Call for the unconditional and immediate release of > > >                      Shadi Sadr, as she is a prisoner of conscience, held > > >                      solely for her human rights activities and the > > peaceful > > >                      exercise of her rights to freedom of expression; > > > > > >       * Ensure that she is allowed immediate access to her > > >                      family, lawyer of her choice, and any medical > > treatment > > >                      she may require, especially as she has a reported > > >                      pre-existing medical condition; > > > > > >       * Urge the Iranian authorities to ensure that Shadi Sadr > > >                      and all other detainees are protected from all forms > > of > > >                      torture or ill treatment; and > > > > > >       * Call on the authorities to remove unlawful > > >                      restrictions on freedoms of expression, association > > and > > >                      assembly in Iran and put an end to the repression of > > >                      demonstrations against the current Iranian > > government and > > >                      their stance on the recent elections..RECIPIENTS' > > >                    LIST: > > > > > >The Honorable Ban Ki-moon > > >Secretary > > >                    General > > >760 United Nations Plaza > > >United Nations > > >New > > >                    York, NY 10017 > > >Web contact: http://www.un.org/en/contactus/contactform.asp > > > > > >Ms. > > >                    Navanethem Pillay > > >UN High Commissioner for Human > > >                    Rights > > >Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > > >                    Human Rights (OHCHR) > > >Palais des Nations > > >CH-1211 Geneva > > >                    10, Switzerland > > >Email: infodesk at ohchr.org > > >Fax: > > >                    +41 22 917 9008 or +1 212 963 4097 > > >Tel: +41 22 917 > > >                    9000 > > > > > >Ms. Margaret Sekaggya > > >Special Rapporteur on > > >                    the Situation of Human Rights Defenders > > >E-mail: urgent-action at ohchr.org > > >The text of the > > >                    e-mail should refer to the human rights defenders > > >                    mandate. > > >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 (Geneva, > > >                    Switzerland) > > >Tel: +41 22 917 1234 > > >This is the number > > >                    for the United Nations telephone operator in Geneva, > > >                    Switzerland. Callers should ask to speak with staff at > > the > > >                    Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > > Human > > >                    Rights dealing with the special procedures of the > > Human > > >                    Rights, and specifically with staff supporting the > > mandate > > >                    of the Special Rapporteur on human rights defenders. > > Please > > >                    see here for further details about filing complaints > > to the > > >                    Special Rapporteur: > > http://www2.ohchr.org/english/issues/defenders/complaints.htm > > > > > >Working > > >                    Group on Arbitrary Detention > > >c/o Office of the UN High > > >                    Commissioner for Human Rights > > >United Nations Office at > > >                    Geneva > > >CH-1211, Geneva 10 > > >Switzerland > > >Fax: +41 22 > > >                    917 9006 > > >See model questionnaire here: > > http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs26.htm#A5 > > > > > >The > > >                    Special Rapporteur on Violence against > > >                    Women > > >OHCHR-UNOG > > >8-14 Avenue de la Paix > > >CH-1211, > > >                    Geneva 10 > > >Switzerland > > >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 > > >E-mail: > > > urgent-action at ohchr.org > > >Leader of the > > >                    Islamic Republic > > >Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei > > >The > > >                    Office of the Supreme Leader > > >Islamic Republic Street, end > > >                    of Shahid Keshvar Doust Street > > >Tehran, Islamic Republic > > >                    of Iran > > >Email: via website: http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/index.php?p=letter > > >                  (English) > > >or http://www.leader.ir/langs/fa/index.php?p=letter > > >  (Persian) > > >Salutation: Your Excellency > > > > > >Head of the > > >                    Judiciary > > >Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi > > >Howzeh > > >                    Riyasat-e-Qoveh Qazaiyeh (Office of the Head of the > > >                    Judiciary) > > >Pasteur St., Vali Asr Ave., south of > > >                    Serah-e-Jomhouri > > >Tehran 1316814737, Islamic Republic of > > >                    Iran > > >Email: shahroudi at dadgostary-tehran.ir > > >This > > >                    e-mail address is being protected from spambots.. You > > need > > >                    Java Script enabled to view it (In the subject line > > write: > > >                    FAO Ayatollah Shahroudi) > > >Salutation: Your > > >                    Excellency > > > > > >And copies to: > > > > > >Iranian Bar > > >                    Association > > >No. 3, Zagros St., Argentina Sq. > > >Tehran, > > >                    Islamic Republic of Iran > > >Fax: +98 21 8771340 or +98 21 > > >                    888 6425 / 26 > > >Email: tamas at iranbar.org > > >This e-mail address > > >                    is being protected from spambots. You need Java Script > > >                    enabled to view it or mail at iranbar.org > > > > > >And the Iranian > > >                    embassy in your country (NB: recommend telephoning and > > >                    faxing before letter-writing) > > >http://www.embassiesabroad.com/embassies-of/Iran > > > > > > > > >Regards > > > > > >AWID > > > > > > > > >See statement on > > >                    AWID's web > > >                    site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This email was sent to rodighar at wlink.com.np by contact at awid.org. > > >Update Profile/Email Address | > > >              Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. > > Email Marketing by > > >AWID | 215 Spadina Ave Suite 150 > > >        | Toronto | Ontario | M5T 2C7 | > > >  Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber to the cedaw4change > > discussion group. > > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > >   cedaw4change-unsubscribe at list.iwraw-ap.org > > > > For all list information and functions, including changing > > your subscription mode and options, please visit: > > > > http://list.iwraw-ap.org/lists/info/cedaw4change > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > ....... This list powered by http://NPOGroups.org: ........... > > ... Group communications and list service for nonprofits .... > > > > > > > > > > -- > > I carry a torch in one hand > > And a bucket of water in the other: > > With these things I am going to set fire to Heaven > > And put out the flames of Hell > > So that voyagers to God can rip the veils > > And see the real goal................... > > .By Rabia (Rabi'a Al-'Adawiyya) > > > > Adv  Kamayani Bali Mahabal > > Mobile-00919820749204 > > skype:lawyercumactivist > > > > www.binayaksen.net > > www.phm-india.org > > www.phmovement.org > > www.ifhhro.org > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Citizen-Mumbai" group. > > To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en > > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > > > > >      Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and > > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Jul 29 00:50:35 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:20:35 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: it is the politics of gun & religious fervour....On Kashmir and Self Determination In-Reply-To: <341380d00907240700r47eb50d0m18cb6356fe99427d@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240309o13f64c90pb0ee27b035f8d54e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240541p41272dc1h8e40c8b7f1fcd0b1@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240700r47eb50d0m18cb6356fe99427d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mr.Anupam Chakravartty, you have a point there but you like many others on this forum tend to overlook, most likely out of choosen ignorance, the facts pertaining to 1989-90 period when the scourge of pan Islamism inspired terrorism emerged in the valley. Kashmiri society could boast of almost no violent crime till the foreign sponsored AK47s ,grenades,rocket launchers,pistols appeared on the scene leading to mayhem.The then CM unnerved by a sudden turn of events abdicated his responsibilities leaving the Kashmiri masses at the mercy of the zealots who roamed the streets freely brandishing weapons & targetting innocents. Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were selectively targetted in the most inhuman manner leading to their mass exodus from the valley.The local police was so demoralised that they were seen saluting the marauders parading openly in the parts of the Srinagar city- the liberated zones . The local police has come a long way & today they are actively involved in anti terror war .Yet they on their own cannot sustain this war. Analogy with the 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage is misplaced as what Kashmir suffers from is a full blown insurgency & the Mumbai attack is only one of its manifestations.The guns may have just gone low due to strategic reasons- short supply of men & equipment as the 'mentor' remains engaged with some cleaning of its own backyard for a while. Regards LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:30:54 +0530 > From: c.anupam at gmail.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: On Kashmir and Self Determination > > Dear Rajen, > > If we say miseries are heaped together so that one class of people can > remain in power, you have to understand what power means to those who > selectively pointing out one set of miseries as other channels of > negotiation have died down. One has to also understand that because one > careless action of a governing body, a whole lot of people become affected > thus this willingness to change everyone and everything around them. > > Personally, i do not understand the discourses on evil or good. but simply > there are channels of peace. removal of armed forces would mean one is > creating that atmosphere of dialogue (between the genuine stake holders and > the authorities). For example, if government chose to deploy armed forces in > Mumbai after 26/11, it would have surely checked all the > infiltrations/loots/murders but then its not possible because people in > general would be suspicious about what authorities are doing in name of > security. it is for this very reason, armed forces were not deployed but a > more difficult, covert exercise of identifying suspects is going to check > the crime scene in the city. is that not possible in case of Kashmir? can > the local agencies which are more close to the people, acquainted with their > aspirations, behavioral pattern can take care of the menace of terrorism? > why does an army/BSF man have to invade the personal space of the people in > the name of the security? > > -anupam > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > as I was reading the novel by Dan Brown, Angels and debils, few thought > > struck me true, the gist was, in the world that we live, there is day and > > night, there is evil and good, there is right and wrong, and the black and > > white when mixed in right proportions, it becomes grey.! The humans being > > social animals have the sense of whay is right and wrongs, but the > > temptations to be in power, power corrupts everything that touches it, is > > way correct, miseries are heaped to stay in power.? > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:39 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > >> Dear Murali, > >> > >> I appreciate that you use "may be". Even the wolf in sheep's clothing > >> argument doesnt apply in this case because both of these forces at the > >> very > >> basic ground level are working in similar ways. While one extorts money to > >> further the cause (also known as influence), the other extorts information > >> so that the state can politically re-condition people into believing that > >> they are very much a part of india (even if it not reflected in terms of > >> policies for development which in turn becomes security funds) For the > >> extremist, fanatic or whatever adjective that one wants to associate with > >> it, it is mostly the lure of money. In case, if u want to say that they > >> are > >> doing for such and such cause, its hogwash. As a champions of black > >> americans, Malcolm X had said the fight for the land. Security forces, a > >> tired lot of working professionals trained (if we have to sum all the > >> functions and put it together in the context of recent incidents) to kill. > >> (on many occasions, to finish the quota of the bullets, armed personnel in > >> kashmir and north east shoot at birds). I wont be surprised if a > >> stupendous > >> amount of defence spending goes around supplying > >> free-for-all-screw-them-all > >> bullets. > >> > >> A yet another parallel perspective is that these are a bunch of brave men > >> caught in the cross fire of political rivalries. possibly true. so what > >> could stop these political rivals from using the security agencies for > >> their > >> own political vendetta? i wonder. > >> > >> so yes, there is an infiltration of extrmist idealogies, political biases, > >> criminal intent into the armed forces (why? because they are armed and > >> power > >> comes from the gun). it has been happening for ages now. protectors (not > >> all > >> of them may be) are also the destroyers. and in this game of hide and > >> seek, > >> the common, the driver, the passenger, the guide, the locals, sheep and > >> may > >> be a goat, keep struggling, fighting and even dying. > >> > >> -anupam > >> On 7/24/09, Murali V wrote: > >> > >> > Well, may be true of inhuman infiltrators of the extremist kind. > >> > V Murali > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Meera Rizvi > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Dear Rajendra, > >> > > > >> > > What am I not an exception to? And what does my surname have to do > >> with > >> > it? > >> > > Would really like to know. > >> > > > >> > > Also, the army like any other organization is populated by the humane > >> as > >> > > well as inhumane. It would be utterly naive to suppose otherwise. And > >> > when > >> > > a > >> > > jawan, trained to destroy an enemy is put into a situation where its > >> not > >> > > clear who is a friend and who an enemy, he's bound to be a little > >> jumpy. > >> > > > >> > > Regards, > >> > > > >> > > Meera > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 7/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Dear Anupam, > >> > > > > >> > > > and all on readers list, > >> > > > > >> > > > basically armed forces, I mean defence forces are used for WAR in > >> > defence > >> > > > of the nation, as they willingly lay down life for their nation > >> > > protecting > >> > > > the citizens of the nation, whether such sacrifice is acknowledged, > >> > > > accepted > >> > > > with humility or otherwise. > >> > > > > >> > > > Billion crores have been spent on Kashmir state by governance for > >> the > >> > > > sustainance of the state, few in ungrateful in Kashmir state are > >> still > >> > > > craving for the affiliation to Pakistan because of the fanatic > >> > religious > >> > > > overtones and undertones and see the helping hand of India as > >> > oppressing > >> > > > power, not all, but few of them. India being democratic, this > >> dissent > >> > is > >> > > > tolerated if not exceeds to violent means. Basically, in such a > >> > situation > >> > > > army has no role to play except at borders to see that cross border > >> > > terror > >> > > > does not creep in, but this faction gains support from such elements > >> > and > >> > > > foists violence for the "azaadi". Faith in any way does not preach > >> > > > violence, > >> > > > but religious followers of faith for the power, use faith for > >> violence > >> > in > >> > > > all faiths. > >> > > > > >> > > > Meera is no exception as her surname suggests, as the army has not > >> to > >> > be > >> > > > employed for the peace keeping but only for fighting the insurgency > >> at > >> > > > borders, but when army personnel, who are also humans, see the > >> inhuman > >> > > acts > >> > > > of the fanatics, who have no uniforms, but hide AK47s inside > >> religious > >> > > > robes, they have also developed the sense of caution with this type > >> of > >> > > > civilians in terror form as insurgents. and their supporters.Meera > >> > living > >> > > > in > >> > > > Delhi has gone to visit the heaven on earth, now made hell on earth, > >> > > thanks > >> > > > to violence by the insurgents, faithful religious faith followers > >> and > >> > in > >> > > > retaliation, the armed forces. The basic fault lies in the power > >> > seekers > >> > > > who > >> > > > sleep with enemy for the sake of power, be it PDP or Congress or NC, > >> > > least > >> > > > bothered about real governance in the state. > >> > > > > >> > > > Regards, > >> > > > > >> > > > Rajen. > >> > > > > >> > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM, anupam chakravartty < > >> > > c.anupam at gmail.com > >> > > > >wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > I am just shocked to read how far the several readers on this list > >> > can > >> > > > > speculate without checking the ground realities just to further > >> one > >> > > > cause. > >> > > > > It is disgusting and demeaning if one underlines such > >> possibilities > >> > > which > >> > > > > could be only thought by a movie director. Even if there is a slim > >> > > > > possibility of militants dressed up armed forces doing such > >> > activities, > >> > > > why > >> > > > > is it that rapes in Nalbari and Churanchandpur in Assam and > >> Manipur > >> > by > >> > > > > Indian Army despite police records have been hushed? how is it > >> there > >> > > are > >> > > > > such a large number of missing persons both in north east and > >> > kashmir? > >> > > > what > >> > > > > does the reader have to say about mass graves found in kashmir, > >> > manipur > >> > > > and > >> > > > > in bastar, in the heart of this country? they were done by men in > >> > > uniform > >> > > > > or > >> > > > > uniformed men? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > i dont know if it applies to your reason or not dear reader, since > >> > > there > >> > > > > were such instances where armed forces took such steps of mass > >> > > execution > >> > > > or > >> > > > > gang rapes, that's how the extremists or terrorists got theses > >> idea > >> > of > >> > > > > using > >> > > > > the same tactics on the people. could that not be a possibility? > >> how > >> > > many > >> > > > > possibilities do you want to underline here dear reader sitting > >> > > > comfortably > >> > > > > inside your airconditioned rooms watching 24*7 news channels? down > >> > with > >> > > > > such > >> > > > > arm-chair speculation and shoddy analysis of a situation that's > >> not > >> > > only > >> > > > > affecting local people in these problem areas but also making it > >> > > > impossible > >> > > > > to find out which particular coterie of armed forces are behind > >> such > >> > > > > activities making it into behemoth instead of protector. > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > > > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > -- > >> > > > Rajen. > >> > > > _________________________________________ > >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > Meera > >> > > _________________________________________ > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ MSN Quiz The clash is on to find the best brains. Test your skills with avid quizzers on MSN quiz. http://specials.msn.co.in/WLSocialNetworkConnector/Chrome.aspx From tapasrayx at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 07:09:44 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:39:44 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and In-Reply-To: References: <2ec0b0550907212048w140d04afn3617c096a8ccb711@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907230134n76b8cf04q575ed90a1a8c6ad4@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907230624g2f00817co3b2c4f58d42926bc@mail.gmail.com> <5A1659D9CBB24A97BFA506259CE05F02@tara> <341380d00907232236x379c76e7t5465a06adee88cdf@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240058t7eaa85qd951b611770bd022@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907240247m458db03bqf2f1f76ddf3aa4c1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907240249r53adc62cm820c2257b2990f2c@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240309o13f64c90pb0ee27b035f8d54e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907240541p41272dc1h8e40c8b7f1fcd0b1@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907240700r47eb50d0m18cb6356fe99427d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A6FA860.5000204@gmail.com> Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and its Muslim other? These are a couple of the questions that came to mind, and wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a Man's HIV Risk By Charlene Laino WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a survey shows. Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty maintaining or getting an erection. Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better after they were circumcised. Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their partners are circumcised. But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. From tapasrayx at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 07:16:18 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:46:18 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision Message-ID: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. ----------------- Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a Man's HIV Risk By Charlene Laino WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a survey shows. Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty maintaining or getting an erection. Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better after they were circumcised. Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their partners are circumcised. But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 09:40:31 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:40:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Culture Cafe Series on New Media @ TISS In-Reply-To: <4A6FB008.2010900@gmail.com> References: <4A6FB008.2010900@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all, You are cordially invited to participate in our Culture Cafe events for this semester at TISS Main Campus! Culture Café, Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Presents *The New Media Series* A set of provocative presentations and discussions about our relationships with new media and technologies Event I: July 31, 2009, 4-6 pm, Room 4 *Shilpa Gupta on her Work and Art* Shilpa Gupta creates artwork using interactive video and objects, photographs and performances to probe and examine subversively themes such as desire, religion, notions of security on the street and on the imagined border. The artist will share her work. More on her work at http://www.bodhiart.in/artists/shilpa_gupta/artists_shilpa_gupta.htm Event II: August 7, 2009, 4-6 pm, Room 4 *On the fundamental right to read and write: An introduction to the copyleft movement, by Dr. Nagarjuna G*. Dr. Nagarjuna G. does research in the area of structure and dynamics of knowledge at the knowledge lab of Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Mumbai in India (http://www.hbcse.tifr.res.in/). He is one of the several freedom fighters promoting free software and free knowledge in India and abroad, and currently the chairperson of the Free Software Foundation of India (http://www.gnu.org.in/). /Upcoming Events/ Event III: Aug 21, 2009, 4-7 pm, Room 4 *Nishant Shah, Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore * *on The Digital Avatar* Event IV: Sept 11, 2009, 4-6 pm, Room 4 *Dr. Amit Rai, Florida State University* *on Mobile Phone Cultures* From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 09:58:14 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:58:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Historical Tales - Queen Didda Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907282128v5c32882cs1c7294017a62cce6@mail.gmail.com> Queen Didda In ancient and medieval Kashmir, a Hindu queen could rule as the regent of an infant king and, sometimes, in her own right. Didda Rani was one of the celebrated queens, more of a strong than a beneficent monarch. Young husband spoke of her "force of character" as well as her "ruthlessness". She carried the latter trait to the extent of tyranny. Her diplomacy and statecraft were coupled with cunning and cruelty. Her 'fits' of religiosity were followed by bouts of an undignified life that knew no restraint. Didda Rani repelled the attacks of invaders and suppressed the strike of Brahmins, revolts of her people, and rebellion of Damaras with a strong hand that knew no mercy to the vanquished. She put to death her own grandsons and, when she died in 1003 A.D., none of her own descendents lived to succeed her. She disregarded her loyal minister, who had saved her life and her kingdom. And yet she built temples and founded cities. The story of this Catherine of Kashmir, a strange mixture of striking contrasts, is indeed absorbing-and romantic. The spendthrift king, Khsemagupta, who loved wine, women and hunting, was on his death-bed in Srikantha Convent in Vamhmulla (Baramulla). Afflicted with plague, he succumbed to it. Among his wives, the prominent were Didda and Chandralekha, but he loved Didda the more, and, therefore, he used to be called 'Diddakshema'.* As the funeral pyre of the departed king was burning, the co-wives, wearing the ochre-brown coloured robes, prepared to offer themselves to the fire. Chandralekha, followed by other Ranis, led the small procession. According to custom, Phalguna, the prime minister, whose daughter she was, gave her the necessary permission. The charming Didda, limping on her lame foot, came last. She made a desperate show of grief. She reached near the funeral pyre, wherein, already, the preceding queens and some of the personal servants of the king, were burning. Phalguna permitted her too to follow her lord unto death. But she was repentent that she had gone thus far. She did not want to die. Her hold on life was temptingly strong. She loved a queen's life more than she was aggrieved at the loss of Khsemagupta. She hesitated. She had hoped that for state reasons, Phalguna would not allow her to perform Sati. Her calculation proved to be wrong. A hundred emotions played on her beautiful fare. The minister for peace and war, Naravahana, gentle and soft-hearted, saw that she was loath to give up life. Excercising his powers, he held Didda back. She was saved from sure death. Thanks to Naravahana, Didda Rani, the daughter of the renowned and redoubtable Sahis, became the guardian of the infant king, Abhimanyu, the son of Khsemagupta. After the fickle nature of women, Didda gave her ear to everyone. The backbiter Rakkaka induced in her suspicions against Phalguna, the statesmanlike and powerful prime minister. She had a longstanding grudge against Phalguna for having married his daughter, Chandralekha, to the late king. And he had given her his consent to die after her husband. She readily believed Rakkaka that Phalguna was conspiring to usurp the throne. Phalguna, sending his son to the Ganga with the ashes of Khsemagupta, moved to live in Parnotsa with his treasure and troops. Didda sent ushers to murder Phalguna as soon as he left Srinagar. When the soldiers heard this, they joined Phalguna in large numbers. The dowager Queen and her counsellers faltered and gave no battle. Faithful Phalguna, who unlike the selfish queen, still lamented the king, laid down his sword in a Vihara but Didda was " ever wakeful to root out the thorns". Her husband's sister's sons, Mahiman and Pattala, were the aspiring princes, who were among the thorns in her side. She had the former exiled. The two princes were joined by the warrior Himmaka, the valiant Yashodhara, the brave Eramantaka, the prince Udayagupta and the residents of Lalitadityapura. Civil war ensued. The rebels advanced upon Srinagar. The Queen threw away the gold box of the Tambulin, as she heard the news. Forgetting her manners, she spat the Tambula (betel) on the floor. She sent her son to Suramatha. In her panic, she sought the ministers and found that all, except the loyal Naravahana, had fled to safety. The minister for peace and war, well-versed in strategy of war, helped her to bring about a rift in the ranks of the enemy by bribing the soma-drinking Brahmins of Lalitadityapura. Yashodhara was won over and offered the highest post of Commander-in-Chief in the army. The great rebellion was reduced to a storm in a tea cup! The Queen was happy. "She, whom none believed had the strength to step over a cattle track- the lame lady-traversed in the manner of the son of the wind, the ocean of the confederate forces". Through witchcraft, she brought about the death of the ambitious Mahiman. The 'thorns' were despoiled of their sting. Finding Didda victorious, Rakkaka and others of his tribe fawned on her. Yashodhara, the commander-in-chief, led an expedition against a Sahi chief and defeated him. When the Chief accepted the terms of a dependent, Yasodhara had his Abhiseka (coronation ceremony) performed again. Rakkaka whispered to the credulous queen that Yashodhara was a traitor and that he had accepted money from the chief. When the victorious commander-in-chief was about to enter the lion gate of Srinagar, Didda sent ushers to banish him. Yashodhara, thus humiliated, sought the aid of Himmaka and Eramantaka. Together, they stormed the city. Once again, Didda sent the infant king to a Matha, where, according to convention, none could touch him. The nervous queen knew not what to do - Naravahana, faithful as ever, arrayed the brave and loyal Ekangas in defence of the capital. By his astute diplomacy, the minister for peace and war brought about a split in the enemy forces. Rajkula Bhutta's men, beating the kettle drums, pierced the enemy ranks and joined the royalist forces. Treason divided the enemy divisions and they were soon overpowered in the neighbourhood of the Sura convent. Mighty Himmaka, who would not submit to defeat, was slain in the battle. Yashodhara was imprisoned by the Queen. By her command, Eramantaka was drowned in the Vitasta with a large stone tied round his neck. She mercilessly exterminated the ministers who had been disloyal to her. "The terrible knitting of her eyebrows" struck terror in the hearts of the subjects and enemies alike. She appointed Rakkaka the commander-in-chief. The loyal Narvahana reinforced the army and strengthened the reign of the Queen-dowager over the kingdom of Kashmir. The grateful Queen conferred on him the deserved title of Rajanaka. The private life of Queen Didda was anything but commendable. The principal functionaries of the household and others of her choice "filled the vacancy in the couch" of the immoral Queen-dowager. Through her procuress, she admitted to her bed-chamber, Sindhu, the son of a palanquin-bearer, who had caught her notice. She exalted him to the rank of the chief of the treasury. He levied new taxes to fill the coffers of the treasury as well as his own pockets; people nicknamed his office as 'Sindhuganja'. Officials, "the pestilence of the people", were busy in extortions from the people who groaned under the increasingly heavy taxes. No longer was Didda-being the term of endearment and respect for the elder sister that she had been given by the ladies of the household, when she was the senior Rani-loved by the people. They were frightened at the mere mention of her name. She was Grahanhina- devoid of a limb; also meaning, devoid of Vedic lore. Bereft of the normal use of a foot, she had become cruel, hard; unfeeling - and passionate in matters of sex. Foolishly she exalted Sindhu, the latest lover-favourite, over the heads of ministers of the caste aristocracy. Sindhu grew jealous of Naravahana. He incited the inconstant Queen against her loyal Rajanaka. Naravahana invited her to dinner at his place. She went. While dining, she received a message from Sindhu that Naravahana would arrest her. On an excuse, she left, too early, against established custom. She no longer chose to understand Naravahana. Relations between them were strained to the breaking point. The loyal minister was stung to the quick. Seeing no other refuge, he voluntarily gave up his life. With the suicide of Naravahana, grandeur and dignity deserted the government. The warrior tribe, Damaras, rose in rebellion. The Queen, at her wit's end, discerned no other alternative but to recall Phalguna to her side. The wise statesman was reputed as the conqueror of Rajapuri (Rajauri). His only weakness was show of power. He had aged considerably. He did not administer the government very ably. His secretary, Udayaraja, and the officials, started an unscrupulous plunder of Kashmir and her people. Abhimanyu was the king in name only; his chief diversion was the study of the Vedas. He suffered from the insidious disease of consumption. The malady was worsened by disgust with the numerous love affairs and the intrigues of the dowager-Queen. "This half moon of the people" (Abhimanyu) died on the third of the bright Kartika (in the year 972 A.D.). The king is dead, long live the king! Abhimanyu's infant son, Nandigupta, was crowned the king. The guardian-Queen Didda was broken with grief at the premature death of her son. "Sorrow concealed her cruelty and she, through composure, cooled down like the sun-crystal when darkness screened its radiating heat." To commemorate her son, Didda founded the shrine of Abhimanyusvamin and the town of Abhimanyupura. In all, while the upsurge of piety lasted, she consecrated sixty-our foundations. She walled many a dilapidated temple. Even her servant-maid, Valga, founded the Valga convent. The 'sun-crystal' of her cruelty regained its dazzling white heat, after a year's penance. The Brahman-imposed rigours of self-mortification did not complement her nature. Much of her penitence had been a sham to impress the religious Phalguna. When he died, the cruel Queen had the infant-king, Nandigupta, put to death. The next infant grandson was enthroned. After a short while, he too met the same tragic fate at her dreaded hands. Then she placed on the throne her last grandson, Bhimagupta. A terrible queen, a man-eater woman, ruling over them, the horrified subjects groaned in whispers. "Even in the case of those who are born in high families, alas! the natural bent of women, like that of rivers, is to follow the downward course." The Queen of high birth openly spurned her caste and family when she, through a procuress, admitted to her boudoir, a Khasa grazier, namely Tunga. Bhuyya, the minister for peace and war, expressed his disapproval of the liaison. She had him poisoned within a day. She appointed Devakalsa - the son of Rakkaka - who was so far the Velavttta (royal astrologer) on the vacant post, and she made Tunga the prime minister. Bhimagupto grew to be a boy. Abhimanyu's wife initiated him in all the wickednesses of Didda. He understood that his grandmother's way of life was anything but desirable. Didda's spies acquainted her with the boy's developing maturity and the dangerous course he was taking. Boldly, she had him imprisoned, in spite of apprehensions of popular reaction. By her command the helpless prince was tortured to death. The Queen-dowager now herself occupied the throne. Tunga, her paramour and prime minister domineered over everyone in the realm. The rest of the ministers of high birth and talent faded before Tunga’s five brother, who dominated the key posts of the government. The corrupt officialdom grew more powerful and tyrannous. The subjects of the Queen suffered untold miseries due to the vile administration.The disaffected people rose in revolt. As before Didda caused a division among the leaders of the revolution by freely giving gold to the base ones who valued Lakshmi (gold) more than the glory of the nation. The revolt of the fierce Damaras was put down in a Machiavellian manner. When the demoralised rebels were rendered harmless, their ring leaders were annihilated mercilessly by Didda and Tunga. The Brahmins held meetings. Their union decided that they would use their non-violent weapon of entering upon hunger-strike, a device often resorted to b the Brahmins of Kashmir in emergencies, against a cruel sovereign. The people backed up the Brahmins. In their fury, the people searched for Tunga, whom they were determined to kill. The Queen gave him shelter in secret quarters. Even her brother's son, Vigraharaja, was among the leaders of the rebellion. The Queen, adept in the ways of corruption, bribed Sumantaka and other Brahmins. The strike fell through. Vigraharaja fled. Tunga appeared on the scene with all his native fury. He killed and exiled the Brahmins. Sumantaka and others who had accepted gold were perfidiously thrown into prisons. Since the death of Phalguna, Rajapuri had become turbulent. Establishing peace in the Valley, the iron-heeled Tunga led an expedition thither. After initial reverses, Tunga defeated and humbled the pride of the Rajah, who agreed to pay tribute to the Queen. The Nagaradhikarin (officer in charge of Srinagar) received Tunga in state on his return. The Queen weighed him against silver, and herself against gold, in celebrating. the victory over her own (suppressed) people and the tributary Rajah. Her greying hair and fading vitality made the Queen nervous. She must appoint the Yuvaraja - the crown prince - she thought, Her choice now lay among the sons of her brother, Udyaraja, because all her own lineal descendants were dead. Summoning the boys in the court, she let fall before them a number of apples, saying, "Let me see how many each one of you can secure". The apples were not many. The boys gave and received blows, and were injured, while they scrambled for the fruits. The prince Samraamaraja secured the largest number of apples. And yet there was not a single injury on his person. The Queen was surprised. "You have got so many apples and yet you are uninjured ?"she said. Samgramaraja replied, " O! Queen, I allowed my brothers to quarrel among themselves for the fruits and I kept apart. While they scrambled for the apples, I had most of them". "One who clamly causes unhappiness to others, can thus better manage his own affairs", Queen Didda thought. To her, he appeared to be the best of the lot, and his tactics the very best. "Wood albeit devoid of fire may suffice for the relief of monkeys from cold and water, and wind for the purification of the coats of antelopes which purify by fire: the realization of the purpose of a living being who is determined thus depends upon his disposition; in things there is, in reality, no innate principle." Pleased with Samgramaraja, Didda Rani appointed him Yuvaraja. In the year 4079 L.E. (1083 A.D) when the Queen "departed to heaven" the crown prince became king. Source: Tales of Kashmir by Somnath Dhar Painstakingly spun over the years, these stories, including folk-tales and historical tales, are bound to exercise a charm over people of all ages, even as the beautiful locale of Kashmir does. Bringing an assorted collection together in this Prestigious volume-Prof. Somnath Dhar calls it his magnum opus-the learned author shares very interesting vignettes of the Valley, including the chequered annals, with the reader. The historical tales, starting with an apt reverle on the Jhelum, the historic, serpentine river, recall telling episodes of ancient history, culled from Kalhana's Rajatarangini. Then follow tales dealing with Mughal and other rulers, right down to Dogra Maharajas. The last tale recounts the exploits of Mujahid Sherwani, the martyr of `New Kashmir,. The story of "Robin Hood of Kashmir", had appeared in 108 countries, as one of "The World's Strangest Stories', syndicated by a London daily, in 1957-58. Jammu and Kashmir State has an inexhaustible fund of folk-tales-well glimpsed in the representative tales retold by the author. Their common denominator is an exotic admixture of the miraculous and the familiar, the myth and the reality. The short stories deal with the people, portraying them in diverse moods and situations, and depicting their deep-set superstitions as well as their struggles with wild animals and untamed nature in some of her fiercest moods. Altogether, the Tales of Kashmir is guaranteed to entertain the readers, young and old. Copyrights © 2009 Kashmir News Network (KNN) at http://iKashmir.net/copyrights.html . All Rights Reserved. No material, including the literature, audio, video and photographic material should be copied or reproduced in any form or context without the written permission of KNN. Disclaimer is at: http://iKashmir.net/disclaimer.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 10:03:24 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:03:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Art & Culture - The Sun-Temple of Martand in Kashmir Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907282133q741f9e4kb73cc3bc8608fffa@mail.gmail.com> The Sun-Temple of Martand in Kashmir The temple of Martand, the most magnificent and impressive of all the temples in Kashmir, is situated at a distance of five miles to the east of Anantnag town. Although the temple stands in ruins yet it still looks full of grandeur. SITUATION It is situated at the top of a high plateau and overlooks the plains of the Valley which wear the garment of verdure. These plains contain clusters of lakes, streams, springs and rivers and the whole Valley is surrounded by snow-capped mountains. In spring particularly, the perfumed air at Martand caresses one's face and seems to reach the heart and one feels a vague longing for an undefined happiness of divinity. It is a masterpiece of the site and beauty of Nature which gives the Sun-temple its unique and superb grandeur. Cunningham feels that the erection of the Sun-temple was suggested by the "magnificent sunny prospect which its situation commands. It overlooks the finest view of Kashmir, perhaps in the known world. Beneath it lies the Paradise of East with its sacred streams and glens, its orchards and green fields, surrounded on all sides by vast snowy mountains whose lofty peaks seem to smile upon the beautiful Valley below. The vast extent of the scene makes it sublime, for this magnificent view of Kashmir is no petty peer on a half-mile glen, but the full display of a Valley 30 miles in breadth and 84 miles in length, the whole of which lies beneath the ken of the wonderful Martand". DATE OF CONSTRUCTION Much has been speculated on the date of its construction. Pandit Anand Koul, a great Kashmiri scholar, remarks in this connection: "The true date of the erection of this temple-the wonder of Kashmir-is a disputed point of chronology, but the period of its foundation took place probably between 370 A.D. and 500 A.D. The colonnade is recorded in the Rajatarangini as the work of the famous Lalitaditya who reigned in Kashmir from 724-760A.D. From the same authority we gather-though the interpretation of the verses is considerably disputed-that the temple itself was built by Ranaditya who reigned in 223 A.D. and side chapels or at least one of them, by his queen Amritprabha". Cole, on the other hand, is of the opinion that "the large temple dedicated to the Sun, was probably of an earlier date, and may possibly have been erected by Samdhimati-Aryaraja (35 B.C.), who with the exception of the Buddhist Prince Meghavahana (12 A.D.) was the only rich predecessor of Ranaditya (223 A.D.) and a worshipper of the emblems of Shiva". DESCRIPTION OF THE TEMPLE Martand temple consists of a courtyard with main temple in the middle and colonnaded peristyle, which is 220 feet long and 142 feet broad. It has eighty four fluted columns facing the courtyard. The peristyle is externally plain, except on the west side, which originally had a row of columns. Bates feels that the interior must have been imposing as the exterior. The Journal of Asiatic Society of Bengal, 1848, Part II contains the best description of the temple. It mentions that the entrance of gateway, stands in the middle of the western side of the quandrangle and is of the same width as the temple itself. The proportion is in accordance with the ideas of Hindu architectural grandeur, for the rules laid down by them as quoted by Ram Raz, give different proportions from six-sevenths to ten elevenths of the width of the temple for each style of the gateway from the most simple to the magnificent. Outwardly, the Martand gateway resembles the temple itself in the disposition of its parts and in the decoration of its pediments and pilasters. It was open to west and east, and was divided into distinct portions forming an inner and outer portico, by a cross wall with a doorway in the centre, which was no doubt closed with a wooden door. On each flank of the gateway pediment was supported by massive fluted pillars, 17.5 feet in height, or 8 feet higher than those in the quadrangle. One of these is still standing to the south of the entrance; and the style of the architecture and the entablature which connected these pillars with the gateway must have been same as the architecture in the Avantiswami temple described above. I surmise that the front and the back pediments of the gateway were supported on similar large pillars but it is possible that the square foundations which observed in the front may have been only the remains of the wing-walls of a flight of steps. The roof was pyramidal; for a portion of the sloping mouldings of its pediment was still to be seen on one side. The walls of the gateway are profusely decorated, internally and externally, the chief motif of decoration being rows of double pedimented niches alternating with rectangular of the inner chamber of the gateway which contains the tall figure of a three-headed Vishnu standing between two attendants. Immediately below is the long rectangular panel decorated with a row of dancing urchins striking a variety of attitudes. The temple proper is 63 feet in length and 30 feet in width at the eastern end and only 27 feet in width at the western entrance end. It contains three distinct chambers of which the outermost, named ardhamandapa or half temple, answering to the front porch of classical fanes is 18 feet and 10 inches square; the middle one called antaral or "middle temple", corresponding to the pronads of the Greeks, is 18 feet by 4.5 feet, and the innermost called garbhagriha, or womb of the edifice, the naos of the Greeks and the cells of the Romans, is 18 feet and 5 inches by 13 feet and 10 inches. The first is open and highly decorated in accordance with its name mandapa, meaning `literary ornamented'. The middle chamber is decorated in the same style; but the inner chamber is plain and is closed on three sides. The walls of the temple are 9 feet thick and of its entrance chamber only 4.5 feet thick, being respectively one half and one fourth of the interior width of the building". It is said that a constant supply of fresh water was kept up through the canal from the river Lider which was conducted along the side of the mountain for the use of the village close by. IMAGES OF THE TEMPLE The Journal of Asiatic Society Bengal mentions: "Among the images carved on the walls of the antarals and the antechamber, we notice on the left wall of the former a well executed image of the river-goddess Ganga standing upon her vehicle, the crocodile, which is looking up towards her. A female attendant on her right and a chauri-bearer is on her left. She holds on her right an umbrella over her head. She holds her usual emblems, a water pot in the left hand and the stalk of a lotus flower in her right hand. She is crowned with a double conical tiara; on the opposite of the antarals is the river goddess Yamuna, with her vehicle, the tortoise. Above the niche on the north wall is a relief consisting of a pair of Gandharvas in flight with an umbrella over them. The statues on the western wall of the antechamber are undoubtedly representatives of Vishnu and what Ferguson mistook for hoods of snakes are in reality points of their coronets. Each of them is three-faced, like the Vishnu image found in the Avantiswami temple, the left face being that of a boar (varha) and the right one that of a man-lion (narsimha). Both are eight-armed and their lower hands are placed on the heads of the chauri-bearer, as in other images of Vishnu found in the Valley. Furthermore, they wear the garlands (vanmala) and we also notice the bust of the earth-goddess (prithvi) between the feet of the statue on the north wall. Most of the images have hands which are unfortunately broken and weather-worn, and the emblems they hold can no longer be identified. Nor can the fourteen-seated figures which occur on the walls of the antechamber below the cornice be identified with certainty. Twelve of them occur in the north and south walls, i.e., six on each and two on the east wall. The one on the right seems to represent Aruna, the charioteer of Surya, holding the reins of his seven horses. The pilasters of the great trefoil arch of the antechamber contain images which cannot yet be identified. The chapels of the north and south of the antechamber each contains two niches 5 feet 9 inches by 4 feet internally, which face to the east and west respectively, possibly an illusion to rising and setting sun". FURTHER DESCRIPTION OF THE TEMPLE As is usually common in the temples of Kashmir, the roof appears to have been of the pyramidal type. Such was the magnificent mass of building dedicated to the Sun, a mass 75 feet in height, 33 feet in length and the same in width including the wings. Entrance was gained by a wide flight of steps which are now covered by ruins. On each of the other sides 11 as a closed doorway surmounted by a trefoiled arch and covered by a pediment which rose to a height of 60 feet. At the angles of the buildings on each side of the doorway were stout pilasters, which were divided into panels, each decorated with a miniature representation of the Aryan style of temple. These pilasters sustained the entablature, and gave a look of strength and solidity to the walls which was fully needed for the support of the vast massive roof. This lofty pyramid of stone was itself rendered lighter and more elegant in appearance by being broken into two portions separated by an ornamented band and by the addition of small niches with pointed roofs and trefoiled recesses, all of which were in strict keeping with the general character of the building. The peristyle is the largest example of its kind in Kashmir. In the middle of its larger sides there are a pair of large fluted pillars, 13 feet in height and 10 square parallel pillars which, with the four pillars of the central porches, make up the number of 84, that was sacred to the Sun… Of these about one half, all more or less imperfect, now remain standing. Each pillar was 9.5 feet in height and 21.5 feet in diameter with an intercolumnation of 6 feet and 9.5 inches... The imposts (behind) were surmounted by human-headed birds facing each other, and a smaller bird, looking to the front, ornamented the horizontal mouldings of the pediments. About one-third of the entablature still exists principally on the north-eastern side of the quandrangle. The other walls of the quandrangle are ornamented by a succession of trefoil-headed panels similar in shape and size to the recessed opening of the interior. Pandit Anand Koul remarks: "In the wall of the longer interior chamber is a window reaching the floor and about eight feet in height. The walls thus divided quarterly are filled with single figures in relief, two of Surya and two of Lakshmi, one each panel". Some time back the courtyard of the temple was excavated and stones and debris were cleared. Shree R. C. Kak, the renowned archaeologist, relates that "removal of the accumulated debris of centuries from the base temple has also brought to light a very important fact, viz., that previous to the construction of the present temple there existed another temple of somewhat smaller dimensions at this site. When the new temple was built, the older temple base was not demolished but was enveloped by a new base with larger dimensions, as is borne out by the existence of both the bases, side by side, one within the other, on the east side of the temple. The older temple was probably the one built on this side by Ranaditya". Dr. Goetz, however, says, "Martand stands not quite isolated. It was a smaller counterpart in the plains, the temple of Malot in the Salt Range. Malot raises the problems of the Martand temple even more acutely. For it was a facade of purely Roman-Cornitian half-pillars enclosing trefoiled archway crowned by a set of shikhara. If the first has already been proved characteristic for Lalitaditya's reign, the second was possible only in a time of the closest contact with Bihar and Bengal, i.e. when the king of Gauda had become Lalitaditya's vassal and prisoner". Source: The Rich Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir Studies in Art, Architecture, History and Culture of the Region By Prof. Somnath Wakhlu -- Copyrights © 2009 Kashmir News Network (KNN) at http://iKashmir.net/copyrights.html . All Rights Reserved. No material, including the literature, audio, video and photographic material should be copied or reproduced in any form or context without the written permission of KNN. Disclaimer is at: http://iKashmir.net/disclaimer.html Subscribe to the following yahoogroups: A. Kashmir Shaivism: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KashmirShaivism/ From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 10:05:53 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:05:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> Tapas : You are a pervert . Can it not be a vice versa when you quote "A crude term referring to this practice isoften used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots" You are obsesses with mixing everything to build hate against Hindu. Pawan On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: > Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have > corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. > > ----------------- > > Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's > Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is > often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and > physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass > themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has > been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. > > It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of > preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS > prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will > Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic > practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and > its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and > I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. > > > > http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 > > Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women > Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a > Man's HIV Risk > By Charlene Laino > WebMD Health News > Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD > > July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual > partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a > survey shows. > > Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently > circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About > 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was > less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. > > Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty > maintaining or getting an erection. > > Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top > two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. > > Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, > longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner > wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health > Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. > > Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have > objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a > lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. > > The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society > Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. > > The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai > circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure > reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. > > "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before > [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to > compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." > > Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men > said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better > after they were circumcised. > > Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the > session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have > shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their > partners are circumcised. > > But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study > involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. > > The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision > to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 10:07:16 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:07:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Operation Darind - A Lightening Raid: Counter-Insurgency Operations in Kashmir Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907282137g42382675la866d359b496d784@mail.gmail.com> Major Yoginder Kandhari was commissioned in Indian Army in 1976. During his Army career, besides tenure as an instructor in Indian Military Academy, Dehradun, he has had a varied experience of insurgency situations having participated in counter insurgency operations in Assam, Punjab and Jammu & Kashmir. During his tenure in Kashmir Valley, from 1993 to 1997, Major Kandhari had a number of successes, against insurgents, to his credit. Major Kandhari sought premature retirement from Army in 1998. Since then he has been a regular contributor of articles on defence matters to various newspapers and magazines. __________________________________________________________________________ Operation Darind - A Lightening Raid Counter-Insurgency Operations in Kashmir By Yoginder Kandhari Militants in Kashmir Valley always framed their own rules of the combat game. Their activities often subsided during winter months as much for closure of passes as for severity of cold. Unfortunately, security forces never exploited this combat procrastination, on the part of militants, so as to seize tactical initiative which mostly sides with the later in low intensity combat situations. Winter months often gave one an impression of an undeclared truce between the two sides, militants, on one hand, staying away from combat out of tactical compulsion of conserving manpower and material, while, on the other hand, there would be a virtual cessation of operations by security forces with their higher echelons conspicuous by their absence on ‘winter‘leave, almost en mass. During winter months, combat management was left to the wisdom of junior commanders who were unwilling to take any chances since their initiatives had been blunted by confused higher commanders who refused to stand by their subordinates in crisis situations conjured up by the third dimension of insurgency, the human rights bogey. It may be pertinent to mention here that security forces often reaped handsome dividends whenever they kept up momentum of counter-insurgency operation through the winter months. But such instances were very few to come by and the raid launched by our troops in village Darind is one such instance to substantiate this observation. The month of February in year 1995 was no different since both climatic temperature and militant activities had frozen. Even intelligence inputs, through formal channels, had dried up. One could keep himself abreast of only localized militant activities and that too through local contacts. Our column of troops was located at Zakura on Srinagar-Leh road. Right from the onset of militancy in 1990 and upto 1994, Zakura was only a summer location for troops tasked to keep Srinagar-Leh road open for winter stocking in Leh sector. However, in 1994 we were ordered to stay back in the area even after closure of Srinagar-Leh road and were tasked to dominate the area during winter months. Our area of responsibility included the highway stretch from Zakura to Nunar in the North and the area to the east of this road stretch. Area to the west of the road was under operational responsibility of Border Security Force. Our area included notorious places like Ganderbal, Malshahi Bagh, Darind, Rangil and the mountainous range to the east of the highway. In fact, domination of Ganderbal was strategically vital since most infiltration routes passed through it and militants were free to wander any where in the Valley provided they managed to screen off their movement through this area. Quite naturally, Ganderbal, and the areas around it, had a large presence of militants who would stage-manage smooth transiting of militants by engaging security forces in frequent fire fights. Needless to say that security forces would often party over a militant killed or a weapon captured but would be blissfully ignorant of groups of heavily armed militants sneaking past just under their very nose. Hence, it was essential to neutralize the local cadres of militants if we were to upset their larger design. Having been ordered to stay back in Zakura and with our combat responsibilities defined, one got down to establishing a reliable intelligence network in order to gain real time information about the militants. Adjacent to our location, in Zakura, was another column of troops whose area of responsibility was to south of Zakura astride the highway. Commander of this column, a gentle man from south India, faced enormous difficulties in cultivating local sources for obvious reasons. That this column had no success to show was no aspersion on its professional ability or sincerity. One could not help but empathize with column commander’s dilemma and to assist him in all possible ways. Initially, he was skeptical about my offers for combat leaders in the Valley mostly wanted to ride on others’ shoulders to corner glory. One must admit, to his credit, that he was quickly to discern sincerity in my offers and readily agreed to coordinate our efforts in the larger interest. Initially, our joint efforts did not yield results. In fact, militants would often get prior information about our plans and pre-empt our raids or cordon operations. It did not take us long to find out that a JCO of the neighboring column was a bit too loud with our operational secrets. This compelled us to withhold operational plans till the very last moment and the results started pouring in. Intelligence inputs: One had been getting inputs from locals about presence of section strength of Hizb -ul- Mujahideen (HM) militants comprising of their commander and five others. Starved of funds from across the border during winter months, this section had been on rampage to raise funds for Jihad. Locals were fed up because of their persistent demands for cash. This precisely was the reason why locals shared information with us. Ghulam Nabi, alias Sahib Dandana, the section commander, belonged  to a village atop the mountain range over looking Rangil, Dardind and Malshahi Bagh. Sufi saint Baba Dariyadin’s Ziyarat is located in this village. The village itself is known as Baba Dariyadin. Though this village had a number of hideouts, yet these Jihadis would come down to the foot hills in search of food and funds. They would normally enjoy the morning sun in Rangil Water Works Complex (see sketch). Located on a high ground, this Complex provided them domination, by observation, over the area.  A number of attempts by us to apprehend or eliminate these militants failed because of this tactical advantage to militants. As soon as the troops would peel off the highway on road to Rangil or Malshant Bagh, militants, forewarned of our intentions, would melt into nearby villages. Naturally, we had to plan with ingenuity to offset this tactical disadvantage. Plan: The plan envisaged a swift vehicle based movement by the sister column through Rangil to raid the Water Works Complex. In conjunction with this operation, my column was  to undertake routine patrolling of the highway towards Ganderbal and then turn back  to launch a lightening raid in village Dardind, hoping to catch fleeing militants unawares. In order to increase chances of militants being channelized into village Darind consequent to raid on Water Works Complex, a deception plan was conceived. Prior to actual operations our two columns jointly dominated Rangil and Malshahi Bagh by raiding all known militant hideouts therein and deliberately leaving village Darind untouched. A local militant, belonging to Malshahi bagh, helped us in locating the hideouts and he was to be used as ‘spotter’ during the intended operations. In order to ensure that plan was not leaked out by overenthusiastic troops, I decided to keep the plan to myself till the very last Execution: February 4th, 1995 was selected as D-day. I called the neighbouring commander a day before and requested him to launch a swift raid on Rangil Water Work Complex the next day. In interest of secrecy, I withheld all other operational details from him. At the appointed time, both the columns moved out of their locations on respective missions. I retained radio control of the joint mission. As planned, my columns moved towards Ganderbal area. To my surprise, I found that another battalion had launched a cordon and search operation in Ganderbal. That we had no prior information about this operation in itself speaks volumes about poor coordination between various troops of same organization; leave aside total absence of coordination between different security agencies. On confirmation that other column had reached the target area, I requested him to stay put in the Complex till further instructions. I turned back and wanted to head straight for village Darind. On my way back, I was stopped by the troops who had launched operation in Ganderbal. They requested assistance of my ‘spotter’. Reluctantly, I agreed to loan him for half an hour. In hindsight, this delay turned out to be a blessing in disguise. For the final execution of the raid, I took on the wheels. Besides the ‘spotter’ my personal security guard and driver were traveling in my vehicle. We were followed by a heavier vehicle carrying a JCO and seven other ranks, all ready to jump to action. As soon as I reached Darind junction, I speedily turned my vehicle onto the track leading to Draind. I managed to speed through the muddy village track. At the dead end of the village we spotted two militants, barely five meters away from us, basking in the sun. Our delay at Ganderbal had helped us by lulling these two Jihadis into a tactical complacency. Startled, both took position behind an electric pole, aiming at us point blank. I accelerated my vehicle and sped menacingly towards them in a bid to unnerve them and, hoping like hell, to disturb their aim. This bold action worked. Instead of firing at us they took to their heels. Before we could manage ourselves out of the vehicle, one of them threw his weapon and vanished out of our sight. My driver chased him leaving me stranded and unarmed in this hostile area. He had picked my AK rifle from the vehicle in a flash. Later, it was revealed that my driver had not collected his weapon before leaving the camp. Soon enough, I saw other vehicle struggling up the slushy track. Subedar Sohan Lal, always an asset in a combat situation, swiftly swung into action. He picked up the abandoned weapon and fanned his troops to look for the second militant. Interestingly, inside a house he discovered an innocent looking man panting heavily and engaged in embroidery work. This aroused his suspicious. Spot frisking and snap interrogation revealed him to be much sought after Gulam Nabi, the selection commander. Besides apprehending him we also recovered two AK47 rifles, six AK magazines, 162 live rounds and eight hand grenades. We launched a thorough search for the second militant in the area but all in vain. He probably managed to sneak out of our sight through numerous undulations in the ground. Having abandoned his weapon, he in any case was a liability for his Tanzim. We gave up the search. Sure enough, this militant was summarily executed by his own colleagues for sowing timidity and for failure to pay up a huge amount for losing his weapon. With Ghulam Nabi in our custody, we had a lot more to achieve which we did but I reserve those details for some other time. Source: Kashmir Sentinel From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 10:08:15 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:38:15 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision Message-ID: > Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's > Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is > often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and > physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass > themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has > been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. Male circumcision is also a Jewish practice, and increasingly a common practice among people of other religions in some cities, as recommended by doctors. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 10:08:48 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:08:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Book Review - The Traditional Music of Kashmir Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907282138r3f511683sdfa599fa38b32821@mail.gmail.com> Book at: http://koshur.org/music/articles/pdf/musicofkashmir.pdf Dr. Sunita Dhar's webpage at: http://koshur.org/music/sunitadhar/ The Traditional Music of Kashmir By Dr. Ramesh Kumar Music, from times immemorial, has remained the most important medium of expression of human emotions. Kashmir, Mathura and Benaras, in the bygone times, were prominent centres for learning art. Due to ravages of time all the written evidence regarding the kind, type and form of music prevalent in Kashmir in the distant past has perished. We can only surmise about the notations and grammar of music which was prevalent that time. The task of preparing a comprehensive historiography on music of Kashmir has thus remained a difficult one. However, some styles of music and singing e.g. temple Sangeet, Shiv Gayan and traditional folk music survived the upheavals and persisted to interest on account of their sentimental appeal and emotional attachment. These styles of music are continuing even now as a distinct genre and as a tradition of Kashmir. There are also stray references in old classics like Nilamatpurana, Rajatarangini etc. 'The Traditional Music of Kashmir--in relation to Indian classical music'. by Prof. Sunita Dhar fills an important gap in preparing an authentic historiography of music of Kashmir. It is the first serious attempt to study the extant forms of music in a historical prospective. The advantage of being an 'Insider' has imparted a touch of originality to the work. Presently, Prof. Dhar is Dean of the Faculty of Music and Fine Arts at Delhi University. She has been trained by Padmabushan Pandit Debu Chandhuri. Historical Overview : In ancient Kashmir, as in other places, the temples used to be important places for learning music and singing. Dancing girls used to perform in these temples. The author makes a statement of fact when she remarks that during ancient period "one does not find any difference between the music, art and culture of Kashmir and that prevailing elsewhere in rest of India". There is archeological evidence, which points to the existence of singing and dancing in Kashmir. Tiles and some sculptures, excavated during Harwan excavations bear the pictures of dancing and singing persons and also of the ladies playing on the rhythmic instrument (drum). Another person is shown playing a Veena in an artistic pastime. Nilamatpurana, a sixth century Mahatmya provides details about the festivals, in which musical concerts and dips in the river Vitasta and collective singing in the evenings featured. Rajatarangini mentions about the royal patronage to music and about the art of music. It also talks about the musical instruments in this region in distant past. According to Pandit Kalhana, its author the folk musical instruments like earthern pots, brass vessels etc. were used by Kashmiri people from very early times. He mentions an instrument called "Hadukka", which can be compared to a big pipe. The ancient musical instruments, used in Kashmir, had been more or less a reflection of Indian musical instruments in usage during that time. King Harsa of Kashmir was an expert linguist and a poet too. He had a taste for music and composed songs. The king introduced Carnatak music to Kashmir. King Bhiksacara (1120-21 AD) himself played on musical instruments. He was fond of 'Chhakri', a form of choral singing, popular even to this day. During the past millennium, Kashmir suffered heavily on account of external incursions and internal turmoil. Music and fine arts too suffered a blow in 11th and 12th century, when a Tartar adventurer, Dulacha invaded Kashmir. It led to anarchy and economic depression. Sultan Sikandar, 'the Iconoclast, at the behest of his alien advisors banned all forms of music and dance. Kashmir was impoverished culturally. Srivara, a contemporary chronicler avers that the Sultan destroyed all the literature and material extant on the subject of music. It was Kashmir's good fortune that Sultan Zain-ul-Abdin ,who reversed all the policies of his father, ascended the throne. He and Sultan Hassan Shah revived the policy of royal patronage to music and fine arts. Srivara, an accomplished artist and a great musician was appointed Head of the department of Music. The great musician used to sing vernacular of Persian songs for the entertainment of the king. He and other talented musicians of Kashmir visited far south and other parts of India to interact with their counterparts. Sultan Zain-ul-Abdin invited artists and musicians from Iran, Turan, Turkistan and Hindustan. He offered them good prospects and concessions to settle down in Kashmir. Avenues were also found for adopting and including various Ragas and Raginis of Indian music. Srivara himself writes that the singers from Karnataka sat gracefully before King Hassan Shah as if they represented the six tunes namely Kedara, Ganga, Gandhara, Desha, Bangala and Malva. Sufiana Music : The entry of Irani and Turanian musicians saw the emergence of a new form of music, which came to be known as Sufiana Mosiqui. This form of music has its style borrowed from Persian music and is played with musical instruments quite different from those used for Indian classical music and Kashmiri folk music. The author tells us too little about how this music evolved in the cultural clime of Kashmir. Is this a product of syncretic interaction between Kashmir's own traditional music and Irani-Turanian music or simply a transplantation of Irani-Turanian music and the soil of Kashmir? When on listens to Tajik music, one can hardly find any difference. Dr Sunita Dhar's excellent monograph on the traditional forms of music and the musical instruments in vogue in Kashmir offers much to the casual reader as well as the serious scholar of Kashmir's music. The author divides the traditional music of Kashmir into four categories-songs sung by women folk, minstrel, farmers and religious songs. Songs sung by women : Vanvun, a prayer in the form of music has played a leading role in maintaining the continuity of our culture. Its subjects refer to the events of vedic period. It preserves our faith in spiritual and ancient beliefs. Vanvun, Veegya Vacchan, Hikat and Vaan are songs sung by women folk of Kashmir. The author divides Vanvun during 'mekhal' (Janev) and marriage ceremony into ten categories--Garnavaya (house leaning and washing), Dapun (personal invitation of guests for the approaching function), Manzirath (heena dye and night singing), Kroor (after a white wash flowery decoration at the main door), Shran (sitting on stool and dropping milk, curd and bathing), Devgun (welcome to vedic gods), Varidan (gifts to the relatives), Yonya (holy fire), Tekya Narivan (holy mark on the forehead and sacred thread tied around the wrist), Kalash Lava (after the worship of Kalash, sprinkling of water). Dr Dhar provides samples, along with meaning, on all these forms of Vanvun. She traces the vedic origin of such customs like wearing of Kalpusha-taranga by Kashmiri women, Zarkasaya, Veegya Vacchan. For example, in vedic period, when Goddess Sinnavali's (one of the thirteen wives of Sage Kashyapa) marriage was performed, God Poosha had prepared a beautiful headguear to, decorate her head. This was called 'Kapal-apush' in Sanskrit. Lord Indra, beautifying it further, had wrapped a white strip of cloth around it. This custom is followed today by Kashmiris as a routine. 'Kalpush' in Kashmiri, is 'Kapal-apush' in Sanskrit. The white twinkling strip is 'Tarang-Kor' in Kashmiri. While putting on this head gear, ladies sing to bride. 'Pooshan Thovnaya Sinnavali Devi Cheh Koori Thovnaya mael maleh' Meaning: Vedic God Pushan himself prepared 'Kapal-apush' and decorated it for the head of Sinnavali, but in your case, your father and mother have put it on your head. 'Zarkasaya' (mundan) has originated from Jatanishkasan in Sanskrit, i.e. removing hair and making the child bald. Devgun has originated from 'devagaman' in Sanskrit, which means the arrival of God. 'Veegya Vacchan' has originated from a vedic word, 'vishesh yog vacchan', i.e. to be sung on a special occasion. In this vanvun, bridegroom or the boy whose 'Yagneopavit is being performed stand on Vyug, a round shaped drawing designed with different colours. 'Ruf' an emotional type of folk dance is sung during spring. It is mentioned in Nilmatapurana. According to Prof. Dhar it might have originated from 'dwarf dance', of Vedic language. In Vedic language, it means a bee, which further developed as Ruf. Earlier, even Vaksh of Lalleshwari were sung in question-answer form in the 'Ruf'. "Hikat" is a form of 'raas'. Reference to it is found in writings of Bhatt Avatar. Nund Rishi too was acquainted with it. This has originated from 'hi-krit', i.e. any piece of work done Joyfully. 'Vaan' singing is performed during occasions of grief. In olden days, an old professional singer, 'Vangarinya' in Kashmir used to visit on the day of the death. He would enquire about the names of the ancestors and family members etc. and sing till the tenth day. Lalnavun is a type of folk song and is based on Vatsalaya Ras. During medieval times Muslims styled their Vanvun singing as different from Hindus. In Vanvun of Kashmiri Hindus a medium tone is used and there is no element of tribal music in it. In Muslim Vanvun fast tone is used. The quantity of Hindu Vanvun poetry is much more than that of Muslims. The latter divide themselves into two groups; one group sings a line, which is repeated by the other. They generally sing standing. A similar type of group singing is prevalent in Kumaon and Garhwal hills. Songs sung by Minstrels : Songs sung by minstrels, professionals include those sung by Chhakar singers, Bhands and Ladishah singers. The author traces 'Bhand Paethar in history and provides a detailed account on how it is performed. 'Ladishah' is a satirical song, which reflects the society's condition. According to Prof. Dhar 'Ladi' means a row or line-'Shah' has been added after the advent of Muslim rule. About Chhakari, the author says that it owes its origin to Rigvedic 'Shaktri'. In Aryan culture, chorus singing after deva-yagya was a common practice. According to late Mohan Lal Aima, 'mantrya mand's ghada instrument originated 'Chhakri'. Bachhi Nagma was previously known as 'bacchi gyavun'. During Pathan rule nagma, an arabic word was added to it. The dress of a Bacchi Nagma performer matches that of a 'Kathak' dancer. References to this form of singing is found in Nilamat. Rishi Macchar is another type of singing, performed by minstrels. 'Rishi Macchar' is derived from vedic 'Rishi + Mat+har i.e. insane i.e. intoxicated movements of the Rishis. These rishis were spiritually intoxicated and Rishi Machhar saints used to move in groups to collect alms. They would visit people and repeat those rhymes, which pertained to the morality of life. 'Dhamaly' means leaping and Jumping. This type of holy sport is also popular in UP. It is related with an exercise of saints, who jump over burning fire. Naindai Gyavun are farmer's folk songs. Naind is the changed form of the word 'Ninad' of Sanskrit. The word 'gyavun' also has originated from gayan of Sanskrit. Since these songs are sung in Chorus, these are also called 'Naindan Chhakar'. Religious songs include leelas and its tradition continues to be strong even in exile. Musical Instruments : In the chapter on instruments used with the Traditional Music, the author goes back to the history, discusses the material these instruments are made of and also describes the technique of playing. Her observation is that the ancient musical instruments used in Kashmir "had been more or less a reflection of the Indian musical instruments in usage during that time". She discusses at length these instruments e.g. Tumbaknari, Sarang (Sarangi) and Kashmiri Sarang, Gagar, Nagda, Dhola, Shankh, Swarnai, Khasya (Khos-cup), Thaluz, Rabab, Noet, Nai (Flute), Santoor, Saaz-i-Kashmir, Setar/Sehtar, Wasul/Dokra/Tabla. In Iran Tumbaknari is called Tumbakh or Tunbak. In West Asia it is tumbal or tumbari. Gagar holds valuable place in the religious festivals of Kashmir. Shankh, the 'sushirvadya', one of the ancient instruments of India is associated with religious functions and has a vital role in 'Leela' singing. Atharva Veda and Bhagvad Gita carry references to it. Swarnai, a 'sushir vadya', holds the same place in Kashmir folk music as the Shahnai in the Indian music. This instrument has been mentioned in Nilamata Purana and Rajtarangini. This musical instrument is intimately related to marriages, festivals, shivratri, navreh, Id and other auspicious occasions. Late Mohan Lal Aima did an intensive study of Noet playing and revived the art. References to Noet-playing are present in Nilamat and Rajatarangini. Delving into its origin, Prof. Dhar observes that in Kashmiri language, the original words 'Kalash' or 'Ghat' might have lost their existence and 'Noet' have gained popularity due to the fact that it was associated with 'UV' (nat). In due course of time, the word 'nat Kalash' might have lost 'Kalash' and become popular as 'noet'. In Kashmiri, Nai means flute. In Nilamat it finds mention as 'Punya hved shabdin vansi venurvenaya sut magadh shabden tatha vandisvanenc'. Both Vansi and venu refer to 'nai'. Rabab and Sarang : The author is not sure whether Rabab and Sarangi have indigenous origin or not. At one place she says these travelled to Kashmir from Persia, Afghanistan and Arabia, while at the other she quotes Ain-i-Akbari to suggest that Rabab was invented by Tansen. According to A.Lavience, Rabab existed during the times of King Ravana, when it was called as Ravanastram. Similarly, Maharaja Sarang Dev of Kashmir is said to be the inventor of Sarang. Prof Dhar believes Santoor too has a native origin. It used to be called Shat-tantri Veena. Some scholars believe that this instrument could be related to Sakta sect. Santoor is made of mulberry wood and is trapezoid in shape. According to Shakts, triangular is a symbol of desire, knowledge and action. Mulberry tree, is sacred to Kashmiris and is related to 'Bhairov'. The extreme popularity of Santoor in our own times is attributed to such great artists-Tibet Bakal, Saaz Naivas Kaleem, Sheikh Abdul Aziz and Bhajan Sopori. Saaz-i-Kashmir has originated in Kurdistan, Iran and is popular throughout Muslim world. In Iran it is called Kamancha. Sitar is said to be the product of fusion between Persian Tambura or ud (Shape) and Indian Veena (in principle). Others opine that Sitar evolved gradually from Tritantri Veena. Wasul or Dokra have gone out of use and replaced by Indian Tabla. 'Hafiza Dancing': In the last chapter, the author has listed some famous songs along with their text and notation. The omission of 'Hafiza dancing' is a major shortcoming of this monograph. Infact in late nineteenth century, one of the main attractions for visitors was Hafiza, the nautch dancer. Many of these dancers stayed and worked in the Shalimar Gardens. The bungalow, lit by candles and lanterns, was used for performances and entertaining visitors. The women themselves usually lived in tents. Azeezie was one of the most popular Hafiza dancers in 1860's and appears in Baker and Burke Catalogue. The author could have also attempted a review of life and works of outstanding Kashmiri musicians. 'The Tradition Music of Kashmir' has good readability, and is reasonably priced. *The Traditional Music of Kashmir. In Relation to Indian Classical Music Author : Dr. Sunita Dhar Published by: Kanishka Publishers 4697/5-21A, Ansari Road, Daryaganj, N.Delhi-110002 Source: Kashmir Sentinel -- Copyrights © 2009 Kashmir News Network (KNN) at http://iKashmir.net/copyrights.html . All Rights Reserved. No material, including the literature, audio, video and photographic material should be copied or reproduced in any form or context without the written permission of KNN. Disclaimer is at: http://iKashmir.net/disclaimer.html From chhaya.shinde at crymail.org Wed Jul 29 10:53:58 2009 From: chhaya.shinde at crymail.org (Chhaya Shinde) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:53:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CRY announce- National Child RIghts Research Fellowship 2009-10 Message-ID: <124CDD6AE49FA54A9C604769B4CD312B8FC12F04@cryexchange.crymail.org> National Child Rights Research Fellowships 2009 – 10 Childhood in India is not uniformly experienced; infact several childhoods co-exist, childhoods of social and economic status, physical and mental ability as well as geographical location to name a few. Respecting children as sovereign, equal members is a step towards recognising their voices in defining their best interest as participants and not just mute beneficiaries. Child Rights and You (CRY) welcomes applications exploring the various dimensions of child rights, the best interest principle, within the constitutional framework of Justice for Children. We seek new ideas, a combination of formal and informal approaches to explore and discover, simple and complex truths about the interplay of culture, laws, ethics and policies determining childhoods. Possible Focus Areas You are welcome to expand and interpret the themes, based on their life experiences and vision. v Creativity and imagination, in the experience and expression of childhoods, researching stories, folk songs, poems, as metaphors for social interactions v Explorations of the relationships of the child with other children, with the State, community and the family v Evidences of the assertion or rejection of the role of children in decision making arenas, such as home, school, work and play spaces and governing institutions v Gather evidence on relationships between ethnicity, inequality and conflict as witnessed and/or experienced by children v Is best interest principle, a value, a constitutional right, an interpretative advocacy instrument or a rule of law? Principles governing the Fellowship Eligibility: Applicants will be Indians residing in India, above the age of 18 years. Those previously awarded this fellowship are ineligible. Preference will be given to applicants who have studied in government schools, where no fees are charged. (Studies conducted and CRY's experiential learning of working with over 2000 deprived communities in villages and urban slums demonstrates that students attending government schools are primarily Dalits, tribals, girls and children from female headed and/or landless households.) It is expected that potential fellows ascribe to the CRY values: Respect for Human Dignity; Secularism; Non-Violence; Accountability; Innovation Transparency; Working in Partnership Language: Applicants may choose to work in any Indian language including English. Please clearly indicate the language, you plan to work with. As assessment of the application, will be conducted both in English and your working language, please include an English translation of the proposal, CV and work sample. Grant Sizes: In all up-to 10 fellowships for grant sizes ranging from Rs.50, 000 to Rs.1 lakh will be awarded. These will be support grants and fellows are free to continue their primary occupation. Proposals above one lakh will not be reviewed. Essential requirements 1. A three-page proposal, which briefly explains your topic of study, outlines the research question within a framework, proposed methodology, time schedules, a reading list of related literature/existing studies on the subject and a detailed budget 2. A two-page CV 3. A sample of your published or unpublished paper/article or any documentation done on a related theme. Proposals whose duration exceeds a year will not be reviewed Selected fellows will participate in an initial workshop to share research plans and gain from the collective experience closer to March 2010 and will also participate at a half yearly sharing meeting. CRY will sponsor travel, boarding and lodging for both these meetings. Short-listed applicants will have opportunity to share their ideas and future plans, in conversation with members of the CRY assessment team. Dissemination: Research results will be made available to activists, academics, development practitioners and interested general public through multiple fora, including language translations to influence the course of the debate on child rights and the best interest principle. Ownership: While fellows will retain authorship of the final research report and content, all information and insights gathered will be open access and available to the widest possible numbers, for no charge. Fellows are free to publish the insights of their research efforts, with appropriate acknowledgement to the National Child Rights Research Fellowship and CRY. If your proposal is part of a submission to any academic institution it will be ineligible for this fellowship as also if the fellow is already receiving funding for conduct of the research proposed. In case during the course of the Fellowship, the fellow feels the need to expand the scope and add greater depth, it is expected that CRY will be informed first about the need for additional funds. Also any other donors reached out to will be informed about CRY support for the principal work. Last Date for application is September 12th, 2009. Please E-mail your application to: research at crymail.org in the absence of internet access you may send your application by post to CRY-Child Rights and You, Documentation Centre, 189 A, Anand Estate, Sane Guruji Marg, Mumbai 400011. The names of researchers awarded the Fellowship will be announced on the CRY website Latest by April 2010. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:05:40 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:35:40 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Editorial Position Available at Resurgence In-Reply-To: <1102652781776.1101443174012.8861.6.120940FF@scheduler> References: <1102652781776.1101443174012.8861.6.120940FF@scheduler> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dr Ian Tennant Date: Jul 28, 2009 6:43 AM Subject: Editorial Position Available at Resurgence To: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com [image: Resurgence logo] Dear Friend, Would you like to be part of Resurgence's Editorial Team? Resurgence is seeking a full-time editor who has experience of all aspects of publishing. Applicants must be willing to work alongside senior editorial staff for the administration, commissioning, planning and production of Resurgence magazine. The post based in Hartland, North Devon. For further information, job description and salary contact Ian Tennant - ian at resurgence.org 01237 441 293 Applicants should apply with a CV and covering letter by email or post by 5pm 7th August. The Resurgence Trust, Ford House, Hartland, Bideford, Devon EX39 6EE - www.resurgence.org Please feel free to forward this email on to anyone you feel may be interested in the opportunity. I look forward to the possibilty of hearing from you soon! Stay inspired, Dr Ian Tennant Business Manager *The Resurgence Trust* *Bookings being taken now for our biggest event of the year - call 01237 441 293 for tickets!* [image: Resilience_Image] Forward email [image: Safe Unsubscribe] This email was sent to chintangirishmodi at gmail.com by ian at resurgence.org. Update Profile/Email Address| Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy . Email Marketingby Resurgence | Ford House | Hartland | Bideford | Devon | EX39 6EE | United Kingdom From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:09:00 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:39:00 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Seeking Collaborators for Global Lives Project - 10th shoot - Kazakhstan Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rahul Chittella Date: Jul 28, 2009 2:27 AM Subject: Global Lives Project - 10th shoot - seeking collaborators To: simonegoldsmith Dear Friends, I'm writing this email to you as a request to go through my friend and colleague, Simone's letter to seek collaborators / crew members for the 10th shoot of the Global Lives Project !!:) The Global Lives Project (GLP) is a very interesting and innovative attempt in knowing our world and neighbors more closely and in return realize the diversity yet the similarities between ourselves and the rest of us sharing spaces in this globe!:) With the project, a crew needs to lock in on a local subject from one geographical region of the world and film him/her for 24hours non-stop! 9 such shoots have already taken place in San Francisco, Brazil, Malawi, China, Japan, Indonesia, Lebanon, Serbia and India!!:) This letter comes to you for the 10th shoot that Simone and team plans to have at Kazakhstan!!:) All the 240 hours of footage (from all the 10 shoots) would then form the base for a video installation through which people can walk through and watch for themselves the variance in the lives of 10 individuals from various parts of the world and yet the similarities with all of us!:) As a writer once said, *"you can be from wherever, as I am far somewhere...as I know you and I are together here, forming this very moment everywhere!"* Pasted below is the email from Ms. Simone Goldsmith, the co-ordinator for the 10th GLP Shoot - *PS* - you could get in touch with Simone, for any queries at simonegoldsmith at gmail.com Global Lives South-Central Asia: Seeking collaborators The Global Lives Project is planning a shoot in South-Central Asia for late August/September 2009. We will be recording the life story and 24 hours in the life of an as-yet-to-be-selected person from one of the following countries: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Iran, Kazakhstan (most likely Kazakhstan!), Kyrgyzstan, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan. The subject will be age 10 or younger and will come from a religious community outside of the world's major religions. See subject selection page for more details on the proposed subject profile. We are a nonprofit educational arts organization with more than 250 collaborators in 8 countries and we are looking for volunteers in South-Central Asia to participate in the project. While participation will not be remunerated, the project offers broad, worldwide exposure for collaborators' work and the opportunity to be a part of a growing and dynamic collective of creative and socially-minded filmmakers. We specifically need the following types of people and organizations: - *Partner institutions* - We are looking to partner with a university's communications department, a museum, a video production studio, or any other cultural institution interested in being involved in the shoot from start to finish, and also with organizing an exhibition in the future. - *Co-director/producer* - Involved in subject selection process from the beginning, making preparations for shoot on the ground. Approximately 6-8 days total of time commitment including preparations and shoot. Also involved in post-production. - *Camera operator* - Commitment for the day of the shoot only + transportation time. Works usually in 2-person teams for 8-hour shifts. - *Photographer *- Day of shoot only + transport, 8 or 12-hour shifts. - *Production assistant **(good position for a film student)* - Providing support throughout selection process to the director/producers with preparations for shoot. Commitment to assist with post-production also helpful. - *Interpreter/translator* - Needed for the day of the shoot as well as for pre- and post-production. *Crew Members* We already have three experienced Global Lives Project volunteers ready to join with local collaborators to produce the shoot: *Nobuhiro Awata* Nobuhiro Awata is an experienced video producer and director, photographer and audio technician. Born and raised in Japan, Nobuhiro lived in New York City for five years and now is living in Taipei where he is studying for a degree in Computer Science. Nobuhiro was a co-Producer of the Global Lives Japan shoot in 2007 and a camera operator and still photographer for the Global Lives China shoot in 2008. *Chieko Kato* Chieko Kato is from a small, traditional city called Takayama in the mountains of Japan. From a young age Chieko was eager to see the world, and made it her mission to travel at every chance she gets. In between extended bouts of travel, she studied commercial photography and worked for 5 years in New York as a freelance photographer, photographer's assistant, and photo retoucher. In 2007, she returned to Japan and has been working as a freelance photographer, producer and interpreter for small video shoots, and as a studio assistant. She participated in the Global Lives Japan shoot in 2007, as a still photographer and production assistant and again as a still photographer on the Global Lives China shoot in 2008. *Hes Mundt* Hes has been a freelance cameraman for 19 years, working for Dutch National TV and public stations like the VPRO, NPS. He has shot a number of documentaries on political subjects and music. Hes was a cameraman on the Global Lives Serbia shoot in 2009. http://www.hesmundt.nl http://current.com/items/88845093/idp_camp_in_naivasha_kenya.htm *Local team members will also be asked to provide camera and sound equipment. To find out more, check out our website at http://globallives.org and send an email to *Simone*. Emails will be understood easily if sent in English, Russian, Spanish or French. Guys, it's a really interesting project and trust me, you'll enjoy it to the fullest besides getting to think deeper about the space that you live in!!:) Feel free to get in touch with Simone / me for any further queries. Please forward this to anybody who you think could add value to the project!!:) Cheers, Rahul:) ** From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:10:27 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:40:27 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Kala Sakshi announces Art Scholarships for undergrad art students! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sushil Bhasin Date: Jul 28, 2009 12:27 AM Subject: [Creativegarh] Kala Sakshi announces Art Scholarships for undergrad art students! To: creativegarh at yahoogroups.com The Kala Sakshi Memorial Trust (KSMT) has been established to support and create opportunities for exceptional young Indian arists through a programme of scholarships in visual art and allied creative domains. The Trust has been created by Kavita Nayar, an eminent artist and Pawan Nayar to commemorate the memory of Sakshi Nayar, a multi talented, dynamic young achiever who touched many hearts in her short but queen sized life. Sakshi Nayar (1985-2008) was passionately engaged with art in all its forms including painting, music, theatre, electronic media and fashion. She brought into her art a child-like freshness of perspective. Above all, she believed in freedom for an exploring artist's mind. KSMT aims to take forward Sakshi's passion for the arts. As its first initiative, KSMT announces two Scholarships, to be awarded annually to two outstanding final year undergraduate art students, pursuing a course in any stream of visual art, with demonstrable passion for creativity and integrity-values that Sakshi believed in implicitly. For details please click on the following link - http://www.kalasakshi.org/index.html Sushil Bhasin www.doodlewala.com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages| Files| Photos| Links| Database| Polls ========================= THE CREATIVEGARH COMMUNITY ====================== Spread the Creativegarh word ~~~ Can you think of any of your friends, colleagues, relatives who can benefit from Creativegarh? Forward this mail to them. Encourage them to subscribe. Ask them to go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/creativegarh or send an email to creativegarh-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Creativegarh is an 100% opt-in community. If you think it doesn't add any value to your life, and you wish to unsubscribe, just send an email to creativegarh-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com and we'll take you off this list. Are you a Creativegarh member? Need a platform to showcase and sell your Creativity? Get in touch with Shalini of Creativegarh Art and Craft Gallery at shalini at creativegarh.com The Creativegarh Art and Craft Gallery at 37 A & 41 Shahpur Jat, New Delhi 110049 is a show-sell-earn platform exclusively for members of Creativegarh. MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [image: Yahoo! Groups] Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity - 8 New Members Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. Yahoo! Groups Mental Health Zone Bi-polar disorder Find support . __,_._,___ From tapasrayx at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:13:54 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:43:54 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A6FE19A.4060702@gmail.com> Thank you, Pawan. Apologies for asking (in my offlist message) whether I could forward your mail to the list. I hadn't noticed that you had cc-ed the list. Pawan Durani wrote: > Tapas : You are a pervert . Can it not be a vice versa when you quote > "A crude term referring to this practice isoften used as a substitute > for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is > used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in > order to escape death in riots" > > You are obsesses with mixing everything to build hate against Hindu. > > Pawan > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: >> Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have >> corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. >> >> ----------------- >> >> Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's >> Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is >> often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and >> physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >> themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has >> been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. >> >> It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >> preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >> prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >> Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >> practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >> its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and >> I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. >> >> >> >> http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 >> >> Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women >> Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a >> Man's HIV Risk >> By Charlene Laino >> WebMD Health News >> Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD >> >> July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual >> partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a >> survey shows. >> >> Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently >> circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About >> 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was >> less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. >> >> Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty >> maintaining or getting an erection. >> >> Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top >> two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. >> >> Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, >> longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner >> wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health >> Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. >> >> Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have >> objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a >> lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. >> >> The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society >> Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. >> >> The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai >> circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure >> reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. >> >> "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before >> [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to >> compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." >> >> Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men >> said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better >> after they were circumcised. >> >> Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the >> session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have >> shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their >> partners are circumcised. >> >> But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study >> involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. >> >> The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision >> to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From tapasrayx at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 11:48:07 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:18:07 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6FE99F.6060309@gmail.com> Thanks, Naeem! I knew about the Jewish practice, but not that it was being prescribed or recommended for medical reasons. Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: >> Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's >> Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is >> often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and >> physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >> themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has >> been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. > > Male circumcision is also a Jewish practice, and increasingly a common > practice among people of other religions in some cities, as > recommended by doctors. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rana at ranadasgupta.com Wed Jul 29 13:10:31 2009 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:10:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi Message-ID: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, from the current edition of Granta magazine. http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 Enjoy! R From appu.es at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 13:53:25 2009 From: appu.es at gmail.com (Appu Esthose Suresh) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:53:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b1e36590907290123l407fd433if10700da464101fd@mail.gmail.com> "and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus* *in order to escape death in riots".... Again this was also put into use in equal no of occasions to identify Hindus, who were trying to escape from the rioters ... It worked both way around and still works... Also, it is not just the Hindu popular imaginary; I guess others also relates it the same way... "It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and its Muslim other? " Try to remember that Vatican and Muslim clergy (at least in many countries) still denounce use of condoms...What I am trying to mention here is that it isn't necessary that the a scientific reasoning been accepted on its merit, and that is not certainly typical of Hindus alone... regards Appu Esthose Suresh On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Tapas : You are a pervert . Can it not be a vice versa when you quote > "A crude term referring to this practice isoften used as a substitute > for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is > used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in > order to escape death in riots" > > You are obsesses with mixing everything to build hate against Hindu. > > Pawan > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: > > Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have > > corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. > > > > ----------------- > > > > Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's > > Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is > > often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and > > physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass > > themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has > > been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. > > > > It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of > > preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS > > prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will > > Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic > > practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and > > its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and > > I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. > > > > > > > > > http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 > > > > Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women > > Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a > > Man's HIV Risk > > By Charlene Laino > > WebMD Health News > > Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD > > > > July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual > > partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a > > survey shows. > > > > Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently > > circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About > > 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was > > less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. > > > > Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty > > maintaining or getting an erection. > > > > Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top > > two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. > > > > Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, > > longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner > > wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health > > Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. > > > > Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have > > objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a > > lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. > > > > The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society > > Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. > > > > The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai > > circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure > > reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. > > > > "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before > > [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to > > compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." > > > > Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men > > said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better > > after they were circumcised. > > > > Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the > > session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have > > shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their > > partners are circumcised. > > > > But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study > > involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. > > > > The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision > > to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Jul 29 13:48:56 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:48:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: HIV and male circumcision Message-ID: <741392.38911.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> I am not a medico but do not understand HIV prevention part. . . . . ... . . . .    ....... Yup in childhood Circumscribtion helps the pennis to grow, and if circumferential, could actually increase sensitivity, than loose desire, unless crudeluy performed I guess!  Yup and Hindu's do not oppose it. And they wont, for obvious reasons! Concerns might have risen due to Para-Normal concers of Babas who tussle to come to limelight, backed by Religious Forces. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Tapas Ray To: Sarai Reader-list Sent: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009 7:16:18 AM Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. ----------------- Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a Man's HIV Risk By Charlene Laino WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a survey shows. Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty maintaining or getting an erection. Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better after they were circumcised. Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their partners are circumcised. But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 14:05:37 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:05:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <4b1e36590907290123l407fd433if10700da464101fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <4b1e36590907290123l407fd433if10700da464101fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907290135j4a1ded0agc5037ea3e9a84a50@mail.gmail.com> Appu , Tapas would try to link everything wrong with Hindus , RSS ....... The problem with him is that his ideology of Communism is dead everywhere in the world and WB is having the last nail in the Communist Empire. People like Tapas want to demonise the Hindu society to keep its minorty appeasement and sickularism alive , even if it is relevant in some discussion or not. Even in prevention of AIDS , he wants to discusss Hindu extremism.... Sick of his thinnking ....... Pawan On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Appu Esthose Suresh wrote: > > "and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass > themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots".... > > Again this was also put into use in equal no of occasions to identify > Hindus, who were trying to escape from the rioters ... It worked both way > around and still works... > > Also, it is not just the Hindu popular imaginary; I guess others also > relates it the same way... > > "It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >   preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >   prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >   Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >   practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >   its Muslim other? " > > Try to remember that Vatican and Muslim clergy (at least in many countries) > still denounce use of condoms...What I am trying to mention here is that it > isn't necessary that the a scientific reasoning been accepted on its merit, > and that is not certainly typical of Hindus alone... > > regards > > Appu Esthose Suresh > > > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Pawan Durani > wrote: >> >> Tapas : You are a pervert . Can it not be a vice versa when you quote >> "A crude term referring to this practice isoften used as a substitute >> for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is >> used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in >> order to escape death in riots" >> >> You are obsesses with mixing everything to build hate against Hindu. >> >> Pawan >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: >> > Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have >> > corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. >> > >> > ----------------- >> > >> > Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's >> > Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is >> > often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and >> > physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >> > themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has >> > been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. >> > >> > It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >> > preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >> > prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >> > Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >> > practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >> > its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and >> > I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 >> > >> > Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women >> > Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a >> > Man's HIV Risk >> > By Charlene Laino >> > WebMD Health News >> > Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD >> > >> > July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual >> > partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a >> > survey shows. >> > >> > Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently >> > circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About >> > 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was >> > less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. >> > >> > Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty >> > maintaining or getting an erection. >> > >> > Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top >> > two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. >> > >> > Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, >> > longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner >> > wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health >> > Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. >> > >> > Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have >> > objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a >> > lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. >> > >> > The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society >> > Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. >> > >> > The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai >> > circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure >> > reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. >> > >> > "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before >> > [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to >> > compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." >> > >> > Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men >> > said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better >> > after they were circumcised. >> > >> > Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the >> > session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have >> > shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their >> > partners are circumcised. >> > >> > But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study >> > involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. >> > >> > The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision >> > to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Jul 29 15:01:23 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:23 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... In-Reply-To: <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No dear, you are guessing it all wrong. Protectors if guilty deserve exemplary punishment. But aren’t killings committed in the name of ‘jihad’ & ‘azadi’ unjust? And should those Kashmiris who self admittedly got trained in Pakistan & ferried weapons from there & unleashed the culture of violence in the valley that continues to bleed Kashmir, not be tried for crimes against humanity? Should those who are responsible for ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits allowed to masquerade as politicians & even peaceniks now? Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:33:47 +0530 Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com CC: reader-list at sarai.net Hi! Aren't we kind of missing the point here. No death is less important but yes, some deaths ARE less unjust. When criminals kill, it is a heinous crime. But when protectors kill, it is a travesty of justice. And whether you like it or not, there is a difference between the two. Meera On 7/27/09, Lalit Ambardar wrote: Blame it on those who founded the 'gun culture' in the valley at the behest of their Pakistani masters.Today, Kashmir that had almost 'zero' crime rate till the onset of pan Islamism inspired terrorism in 1989-90, has become synonymous with 'death' & 'destruction'. It is a pity that the protagnists of the macabre 'death & destruction' drama in Kashmir enjoy a fan following on this forum too & that brutalisation of Kashmiri society has been allowed in the name of jihad for 'so called azadi'....???... Regards all LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:18:53 +0530 > From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com > To: yousufism at gmail.com; rashneek at gmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) > > If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by > surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by > protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in the > last few months. A man was recently murdered, found with a hundred rupee > note stuffed into his mouth. None of these merited protests. > > Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > > > > From: M Yousuf > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 > > To: rashneek kher > > Cc: reader-list > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > > Kashmir) > > > > It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement > > after > almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the > > promptness > now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement > > issued > about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe > > to > find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were > > from > some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be > > advisable > for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and > > seek Syed > Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital > > jail > where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream > > pro-India > politicians. > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI > Sathu Barbar Shah, > > Srinagar - 190001 > email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com > > Dated : 29.06.2009 > > PRESS > > RELEASE > > SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > SAMITI > SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS > > > > Srinagar, 29 > > June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council > of Kashmiri Pandit > > SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at > the meeting deliberated on > > events surrounding the gang rape and murder > of two young women in > > Shopian. > Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and > > inhuman > act allegedly committed by members of the police force who > > are > supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members > were > > visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the > Kashmir police > > officials as has been found in the enquiry. > > The KPSS also condemns the > > initial cover-up by local administrative > officials in Shopian that led to an > > incorrect initial assessment of > the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly > > the initial press > briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir > > Range, > was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of > the > > SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all > these acts of > > ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and > condemned by the Justice Jan > > Commission. > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for > > their > determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. > > KPSS further > > stated that the state government has not carried out full > inquiries into other > > previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar > Bahi, etc. where it is still > > unclear if various criminal acts were > committed by security personnel or > > militants. The SAMITI recalls the > failure of State authorities in > > investigating the horrific acts of > rape and brutal murders of the Braroo > > family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati > Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in > > 1994 in their house at > Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were > > raped in front > of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That > > case was > all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the > > Braroo > home knew the culprit but police still did not act. > > The KPSS is > > critical of both mainstream and separatist political > parties for politicizing > > some acts of criminality, violence, and human > rights abuses while conveniently > > ignoring other similar cases that too > require attention and justice. The > > Samiti stated that the latest > shameful incident has once again put the honor > > of all Kashmiri women - > without cast, creed or religion - at stake as > > authorities and leaders > of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and > > defend the > dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe > > no > Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough > against > > perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such > horrific acts in the > > recent past be it in the hands of security forces > or by militants. > > The > > credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands > that > > following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be > served > > immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency > and all guilty > > personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law > and receive the > > harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest > of rare cases.² > > The > > Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people > programs by > > responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest > and compel the state > > government to take stern action against culprits > irrespective of their stature > > in the society or official rank. The > SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri > > citizens that include > professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central > > government > organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² > > until > the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, > > shopkeepers, > transporters and other public institutions should hoist small > > black > flags until the justice is done. > > KPSS strongly believes that rapist and > > killers can never be the > masters and protectors of any civilized > > society. > > KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section > > of > society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. > > Sanjay K > > .Tickoo > President, KPSS > +91 9906564741 > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > *It has a message for separtists > > but more importantly for their bleeding > > heart sympathesizers,some of them > > are here too....* > > > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to > > carry this release in > > their papers. > > > > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > SAMITI* > > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > > email: > > kpss.kashmir@ > > gmail.com< > > > > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > > > > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > > > *Press Release* > > > > > > > > *(Separatists silence over > > Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > > > > > In recent months killings > > of some members of Kashmiri Society > > erupted violence all over the Valley and > > was supported by the Separatists > > organization, through every such act on > > Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > > But > > the way the Separatists Leadership > > keeps silence over the atrocities done > > by > > the militants who obviously > > belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > > > There is no > > ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of > > two persons at Keller, > > Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > > that > > the Separatist > > Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > > kind of act by > > the militants. > > > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World > > Communities that > > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early > > militancy period > > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on > > the name of being > > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout > > the world by them > > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master > > minded by then > > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > > > > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - > > cum - > > Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > > we > > categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and > > > > dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not come > > > > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own cadres on > > > > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility will > > > > remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to them > > > > sympathetically. > > > > Further, we invite the kind attention of > > European Diplomats and > > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve > > the dispute between the > > two nations and have access to Separatist > > Organizations to take a serious > > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri > > Leaders over the innocent > > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and > > in present. > > > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign > > Diplomats along > > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind > > and valuable > > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist > > Leadership on such > > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > > > > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > > Kashmir who > > are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > > Force(s) but > > least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > > sympathizers. > > > > > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > > present > > scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > > Pockets > > so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > > un-scrupulous > > elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > > > > > *President* > > > > *+91-9906564741* > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > ___________________________ > > ______________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List > > archive: > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: _________________________________________________________________ Share your memories online with anyone you want. http://www.microsoft.com/india/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1 _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: -- Meera _________________________________________________________________ Stay updated! Add Facebook, LinkedIn, MySpace & Hi5 friends to your Windows Live network instantly. Add Now! http://profile.live.com/webactivities/?mkt=en-in From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 15:31:43 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:01:43 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] The Sight Village Experience Message-ID: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/features/the_sight_village_experience.shtml The Sight Village Experience by Emma Tracey Every year, usually in mid July, blind and visually impaired people of the UK harness up their dogs, unfold their canes or harass a sighted friend or family member into joining them and set off on their annual pilgrimage to Sight Village. This is an event showcasing technology and services of interest to blindies, where we can satisfy our tech cravings with a major gadget fix. From sudeshna.kca at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 16:08:04 2009 From: sudeshna.kca at gmail.com (Sudeshna Chatterjee) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:08:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> Its a really good read! Highly recommended. Sudeshna On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: > My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, from the > current edition of Granta magazine. > > http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 > > Enjoy! > > R > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD New Delhi, India From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 16:30:43 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:00:43 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] High-cost, high-risk -172 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290400x1644aff0xd3d928c9702597c8@mail.gmail.com> Dear All This is I think first time front line has published something on UIDC especially after Nandu assumed post. The spin from this Hindu stable publication is predictable and Ramakumar has done something different by bringing in an aspect of history and then moving to the issue and then analyzing it with other views. Regards Taha http://www.frontline.in/stories/20090814261604900.htm Frontline Volume 26 - Issue 16 :: Aug. 01-14, 2009 INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU High-cost, high-risk CONTROVERSY High-cost, high-risk R. RAMAKUMAR The UPA government is going ahead with the ID card project, ignoring criticisms and alternative suggestions. WITH the appointment of Nandan Nilekani as the Chairperson of the Unique Identification Authority (UIA), it is clear that the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government has decided to go ahead with the controversial project to provide each Indian citizen with a unique and multi-purpose identity card. The media are abuzz with commentators praising the government for a landmark decision that would “change the face of governance” in India. With contracts worth hundreds of crores up for grabs, the IT industry too is in delight. “Bring them on! We will fix it,” the tech industry appears to be claiming on what is essentially a social problem. The project was initiated by the National Democratic Alliance government under Atal Bihari Vajpayee in 2002. A perusal of its history shows that the dirty groundwork had already been completed under the NDA. The origins of the project can be traced back to the controversial report of the Kargil Review Committee, appointed in the wake of the Kargil War, in 1999. This committee was chaired by K. Subrahmanyam and had as its members B.G. Verghese, Satish Chandra and K.K. Hazari. In its report submitted in January 2000, the committee noted that immediate steps were needed to issue ID cards to villagers in border districts, pending its extension to other parts of the country. By around 2001, a Group of Ministers of the NDA government submitted a report to the government, titled Reforming the National Security System. This report was based largely on the findings of the Subrahmanyam Committee. The report noted: “Illegal migration has assumed serious proportions. There should be compulsory registration of citizens and non-citizens living in India. This will facilitate preparation of a national register of citizens. All citizens should be given a Multi-purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) and non-citizens should be issued identity cards of a different colour and design.” In 2003, the NDA government initiated a series of steps to ensure the smooth preparation of the national register, which was to form the basis for the preparation of ID cards. The best way was to link the preparation of the register with the Census of India. However, the Census has always had strong clauses relating to the privacy of its respondents. Thus, the Citizenship Act of 1955 was amended in 2003, soon after the MNIC was instituted. This amendment allowed for the creation of the post of Director of Citizen Registration, who was also to function as the Director of Census in each State. According to the citizenship rules notified on December 10, 2003, the onus for registration was placed on the citizen: “It shall be compulsory for every Citizen of India to…get himself registered in the Local Register of Indian Citizens.” The rules also specified punishments for citizens who failed to do so; any violation was to be “punishable with fine, which may extend to one thousand rupees”. In other words, the privacy clauses relating to Census surveys were diluted significantly by the NDA government in 2003 itself. The UPA government has only carried forward the plans of the NDA government under a new name. The MNIC project was replaced by the National Authority for Unique Identity (NAUID), and placed under the Planning Commission. The NAUID was established in January 2009, after the terrorist attacks on Mumbai in November 2008. However, the steps to establish it had begun even before the Mumbai attacks. According to a press release of the government dated November 10, 2008, the Unique Identity (UID) project would serve a variety of purposes: “better targeting of government’s development schemes, regulatory purposes [including taxation and licensing], security purposes, banking and financial sector activities, etc.” The UID will be “progressively extended to various government programmes and regulatory agencies, as well as private sector agencies in the banking, financial services, mobile telephony and other such areas.” As per the interim budget of the UPA government in February 2009, the UIA was established. The public response to the ID project has been influenced by the liberal praise that the media have showered on it. In fact, the nature of reporting would have one in doubt on whether the praise is for the project per se or for the appointment of the Chairperson. Some commentators hailed Nilekani’s appointment as a first step in the absorption of technocrats into government. It has also been argued that ID cards would increase the efficiency of poverty alleviation programmes. In fact, while better delivery of poverty alleviation programmes is the stated primary objective of the project, it is no one’s doubt that the actual primary objective is to address terrorism. Indeed, the presence of identity cards for citizens in an electronic format is a welcome measure. In specific sectors/schemes and in specific contexts, it can increase the efficiency of service delivery. At the same time, there are a number of reasons why the UIA project has to be thoroughly critiqued, and even opposed. PRIVACY & CIVIL LIBERTIES First, international experience shows that very few countries have provided national ID cards to citizens. The most important reason has been the unsettled debate on the protection of privacy and civil liberties. It has been argued that the data collected as part of providing ID cards, and the information stored in the cards, may be misused for a variety of purposes. For instance, there is the problem of “functionality creep” where the card can serve purposes other than its original intent. Some have argued that ID cards can be used to profile citizens in a country and initiate a process of racial/ethnic cleansing, as during the Rwanda genocide of 1995. Legislation on privacy cannot be a guarantee against the possibilities of misuse of ID cards. Two countries where the issue of national ID cards has been well debated are the United States and the United Kingdom. In both these countries, the project was shelved after public protests. Countries such as Australia have also shelved ID card schemes. While China declared its intention to introduce an ID card, it later withdrew the clause to have biometric data stored in such cards. In the U.S., privacy groups have long opposed ID cards; there was opposition also when the government tried to expand the use of the social security number in the 1970s and 1980s. The disclosure of the social security number to private agencies had to be stopped in 1989 following a public outcry. A health security card project proposed by Bill Clinton was set aside even after the government promised “full protection for privacy and confidentiality”. Finally, the George W. Bush administration settled in 2005 for an indirect method of providing ID cards to U.S. citizens. In what came to be called a “de-facto ID system”, the REAL ID Act made it mandatory for all U.S. citizens to get their drivers’ licences re-issued, replacing old licences. In the application form for reissue, the Department of Homeland Security added new questions that became part of the database on driving licence holders. As almost all citizens of the U.S. had a driving licence, this became an informal electronic database of citizens. Nevertheless, these cards cannot be used in the U.S. for any other requirement, such as in banks or airlines. The debate on the confidentiality of the data collected by the U.S. government continues to be alive even today. The most interesting debate on the issue of national ID cards has been in the U.K. With the introduction of the Identity Cards Bill of 2004, the Tony Blair government declared its intent to issue ID cards for all U.K. citizens. Public protests have forced the Labour government to shelve the policy to date. The debate has mainly centred around the critical arguments in an important research report on the desirability of national ID cards prepared by the Information Systems and Innovations Group at the London School of Economics (LSE). The LSE’s report is worth reviewing here. LSE’s REPORT The report identified key areas of concern with the Blair government’s plans, which included their high risk and likely high cost, as well as technological and human rights issues. The report noted that the government’s proposals “are too complex, technically unsafe, overly prescriptive and lack a foundation of public trust and confidence”. While accepting that preventing terrorism is the legitimate role of the state, the report expressed doubts on whether ID cards would prevent terror attacks through identity theft: “…preventing identity theft may be better addressed by giving individuals greater control over the disclosure of their own personal information, while prevention of terrorism may be more effectively managed through strengthened border patrols and increased presence at borders, or allocating adequate resources for conventional police intelligence work…. A card system such as the one proposed in the Bill may even lead to a greater incidence of identity fraud…. In consequence, the National Identity Register may itself pose a far larger risk to the safety and security of U.K. citizens than any of the problems that it is intended to address.” In conclusion, the LSE report noted that “…identity systems may create a range of new and unforeseen problems. These include the failure of systems, unforeseen financial costs, increased security threats and unacceptable imposition on citizens. The success of a national identity system depends on a sensitive, cautious and cooperative approach involving all key stakeholder groups, including an independent and rolling risk assessment and a regular review of management practices. We are not confident that these conditions have been satisfied in the development of the Identity Cards Bill. The risk of failure in the current proposals is therefore magnified to the point where the scheme should be regarded as a potential danger to the public interest and to the legal rights of individuals.” TECHNOLOGICAL DETERMINISM Secondly, an interesting aspect of the discussion in India is the level of technological determinism on display. It would appear that the problem of citizenship can be fixed by the use of technology. The fact that the UIA is to be headed by a technocrat like Nilekani, and not a demographer, is evidence to this biased view of the government. The problems of enumeration in a society like India’s, marked by illegal immigration as well as internal migration, especially of people from poor labour households, are too enormous to be handled effectively by a technocrat. It is intriguing that the duties of the Census Registrar and the UIA Chairperson have been demarcated, and that the UIA Chairperson has been placed as a Cabinet Minister above the Census Registrar. Such technological determinism has been a feature of efforts to introduce ID cards in other countries too, such as the U.K. The rhetorical confidence of the U.K. government in the scheme has always sat uncomfortably with its own technological uncertainty regarding the project. Critics pointed out that a slight failure in any of the technological components may immediately affect underlying confidence of people in the scheme as a whole. For instance, the LSE report noted: RAJANISH KAKADE/AP Shiv Kumar Chinna Coundar in Mumbai with a temporary ID card issued by a fishermen’s society that allows him to work while waiting for a state-issued ID card, which became compulsory for all fishermen on the open seas after the November 2008 terror attack on Mumbai. The origins of the ID card project can be traced to the Kargil Review Committee report, which noted that immediate steps were needed to issue ID cards to villagers in border districts, pending its extension to other parts of the country. “The technology envisioned for this scheme is, to a large extent, untested and unreliable. No scheme on this scale has been undertaken anywhere in the world. Smaller and less ambitious systems have encountered substantial technological and operational problems that are likely to be amplified in a large-scale, national system. The proposed system unnecessarily introduces, at a national level, a new tier of technological and organisational infrastructure that will carry associated risks of failure. A fully integrated national system of this complexity and importance will be technologically precarious and could itself become a target for attacks by terrorists or others.” Blair, nevertheless, was an ardent advocate of the ID card scheme. In an article in The Daily Telegraph, he argued that ID cards were required to secure U.K’s borders and ease modern life, and that “the case for ID cards is a case not about liberty but about the modern world”. Responding to the invocation of modernity, Edgar A. Whitley, Reader at LSE and a member of its research team, noted that “intellectually, technological determinism seemed to us to reduce the intimate intertwining of society and technology to a simple cause-and-effect sequence.” Thirdly, would the ID card scheme result in an increase in the efficiency of the government’s poverty alleviation schemes? According to Nilekani, the ID card “will help address the widespread embezzlement that affects subsidies and poverty alleviation programmes”. However, it is difficult to foresee any major shift in the efficiency frontiers of poverty alleviation programmes if ID cards are introduced. The poor efficiency of government schemes in India is not because of the absence of technological monitoring. The reasons are structural, and these structural barriers cannot be transcended by using ID cards. COMPREHENDING SOCIAL REALITIES Take one claim – unique ID cards would lead to “better targeting of government’s development schemes”. Here is where the thinking behind the ID cards fails to comprehend the social realities that reduce the access of needy sections to welfare schemes. If we apply the argument to the Public Distribution System (PDS), it would imply that the government could ensure that only BPL households benefit from the scheme. But the most important problem with the PDS in India is not that non-BPL households benefit from it but that large sections are not classified as BPL in the first place. Further, there are major problems associated with having a classification of households as BPL or APL based on a survey conducted in one year, and then following the same classification for many years. Incomes of rural households, especially rural labour households, fluctuate considerably. A household may be non-poor in the year of survey, but may become poor the next year because of uncertainties in the labour market. How will an ID card solve this most important barrier to efficiency in the PDS? Yet another claim is that a simple cash-transfer scheme, which can replace existing poverty alleviation programmes, will become possible if ID cards are introduced. To begin with, cash-transfer schemes have not been found to be efficient substitutes for public works schemes in any part of the developing world. In addition, for the same reasons discussed in the context of the PDS, a cash-transfer scheme would also lead to the exclusion of a large number of needy from cash benefits. An ID card cannot be of any help in such scenarios. Also, the case of BPL cards cited above cannot be considered as a special case. Given that the BPL population has special privileges in many social welfare provisions, this would also be a larger and persistent problem in the use of ID cards for any purpose in the social sector. Fourthly, the costs involved in such a project are always enormous and have to be weighed against the limited benefits that are likely to follow. In India, the cost estimated by the government itself is a whopping Rs.1.5 lakh crore. Even after the commitment of such levels of expenditures, the uncertainty over the technological options and ultimate viability of the scheme remains. In addition, it is unclear whether recurring costs for maintaining a networked system necessary for ID cards to function effectively have been accounted for by the government. In the case of the U.K., the LSE report noted that the costs of the scheme were significantly underestimated by the government. The critique of the LSE group on the costing exercise of the U.K. government is a good case study of why the costs of such schemes are typically underestimated. The LSE group estimated that the costs would lie between £10.6 billion and £19.2 billion, excluding public or private sector integration costs. This was considerably higher than the estimate of the U.K. government. Apart from the reasons discussed above, there are other simple questions for which answers are not easily forthcoming. Suppose a poor household, which has been regularly using the ID card, loses the card. Would that mean that all the benefits to the household will cease until a new card is provided (that is surely to take many weeks in the Indian context)? Why cannot we think of other options, such as providing separate electronic cards for some of the very important schemes? What happens to the use of ID cards in villages that do not even have electricity, leave alone Internet connections? MISUSE OF DATABASE In conclusion, the ID card project of the UPA government, which is the continuation of a hawkish idea of the NDA, appears to be missing the grade on most criteria. There is no reason to disbelieve the argument that the centralised database of citizens could be misused to profile citizens in undesirable and dangerous ways. The scheme is extraordinarily expensive. There is an unrealistic assumption behind the project that technology can be used to fix the ills of social inefficiencies. The benefits from the project, in terms of raising the efficiency of government schemes, appear to be limited. This is not to argue against any form of electronic management of data or provision of services. It may certainly be useful to have an identity card for citizens, which can be made use of in any part of the country for identification as well as for availing themselves of certain minimum benefits. At present, roughly 80 per cent of India’s citizens have an election ID card. The use of this ID card can be easily expanded, with some innovation, to convert it into a master card for a specified set of purposes. But what is the social benefit of centralising all information and access to welfare schemes into one smart card? Unfortunately, the UPA government has skipped public debate around criticisms and alternative suggestions. • R. Ramakumar is with the Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 16:37:57 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:07:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UIDAI may be statutory body soon- 173 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290407m5f59269asfc0936348e71f7f2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All I wonder what happens to this entity called -political will- when one wants to talk about infrastructure around sanitation or health or education or old age care. UIDAI will now have permanent office and going by the so called -disquiet- distributing IE, there's talk of passing some act in the parliament to possibly make UIDAI durable. Regards Taha http://www.frontline.in/stories/20090814261604900.htm UIDAI may be statutory body soon Amitabh Sinha Tags : UIDAI, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee Posted: Wednesday, Jul 29, 2009 at 0246 hrs New Delhi: After getting a high-profile person to head it, the government is now working towards converting the recently-formed Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) into a statutory body backed by an Act of Parliament, it is learnt. The move — when it comes through — will ensure that the Authority becomes a permanent organisation so that future governments are unable to scrap the project to provide unique identification numbers to people. An empowered Group of Ministers (GoM) under Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee is said to have given an in-principle approval to grant statutory status to the UID Authority. However, a final decision in this regard is expected at the next meeting of the GoM which also has Law Minister M Veerappa Moily and Home Minister P Chidambaram as members. The move is in sync with the seriousness being attached to this project by the UPA government. The UID scheme was originally meant to be prepared from existing databases, like those being used for public distribution system, and intended to ensure a better delivery of services to the beneficiaries of government schemes and programmes. It was supposed to be executed by the Department of Information Technology and formation of the Authority was not envisaged. The UID Authority under former Infosys CEO Nandan Nilekani, however, has been given a much wider mandate. It has been tasked with the responsibility of providing a unique number to all residents above the age of 15. Sources said the UID Authority is ultimately envisioned to be merged with the Office of the Registrar General of India, which is the repository of all records relating to citizens, they said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 16:41:00 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:11:00 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] David Cameron gambles on honesty over spending cuts Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290411t68d2a922s2e24081e0bb368e1@mail.gmail.com> meanwhile in some other parts of the world....they are talking in an altogether different tune....for instance please read this quote by a Tory leader...'"We need to have more specific cuts to show people than just cancelling ID cards," said a senior Tory insider. "People need to see we can do what we say." http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23724881-details/David+Cameron+gambles+on+honesty+over+spending+cuts/article.do Taha From tapasrayx at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 17:08:50 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:38:50 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907290135j4a1ded0agc5037ea3e9a84a50@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <4b1e36590907290123l407fd433if10700da464101fd@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907290135j4a1ded0agc5037ea3e9a84a50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7034CA.1010002@gmail.com> ;)) Pawan Durani wrote: > Appu , > > Tapas would try to link everything wrong with Hindus , RSS ....... The > problem with him is that his ideology of Communism is dead everywhere > in the world and WB is having the last nail in the Communist Empire. > > People like Tapas want to demonise the Hindu society to keep its > minorty appeasement and sickularism alive , even if it is relevant in > some discussion or not. > > Even in prevention of AIDS , he wants to discusss Hindu extremism.... > > Sick of his thinnking ....... > > Pawan > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Appu Esthose Suresh wrote: >> "and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >> themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots".... >> >> Again this was also put into use in equal no of occasions to identify >> Hindus, who were trying to escape from the rioters ... It worked both way >> around and still works... >> >> Also, it is not just the Hindu popular imaginary; I guess others also >> relates it the same way... >> >> "It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >> preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >> prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >> Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >> practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >> its Muslim other? " >> >> Try to remember that Vatican and Muslim clergy (at least in many countries) >> still denounce use of condoms...What I am trying to mention here is that it >> isn't necessary that the a scientific reasoning been accepted on its merit, >> and that is not certainly typical of Hindus alone... >> >> regards >> >> Appu Esthose Suresh >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Pawan Durani >> wrote: >>> Tapas : You are a pervert . Can it not be a vice versa when you quote >>> "A crude term referring to this practice isoften used as a substitute >>> for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is >>> used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in >>> order to escape death in riots" >>> >>> You are obsesses with mixing everything to build hate against Hindu. >>> >>> Pawan >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: >>>> Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have >>>> corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. >>>> >>>> ----------------- >>>> >>>> Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's >>>> Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is >>>> often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and >>>> physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >>>> themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has >>>> been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. >>>> >>>> It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >>>> preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >>>> prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >>>> Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >>>> practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >>>> its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and >>>> I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 >>>> >>>> Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women >>>> Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a >>>> Man's HIV Risk >>>> By Charlene Laino >>>> WebMD Health News >>>> Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD >>>> >>>> July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual >>>> partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a >>>> survey shows. >>>> >>>> Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently >>>> circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About >>>> 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was >>>> less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. >>>> >>>> Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty >>>> maintaining or getting an erection. >>>> >>>> Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top >>>> two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. >>>> >>>> Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, >>>> longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner >>>> wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health >>>> Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. >>>> >>>> Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have >>>> objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a >>>> lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. >>>> >>>> The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society >>>> Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. >>>> >>>> The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai >>>> circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure >>>> reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. >>>> >>>> "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before >>>> [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to >>>> compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." >>>> >>>> Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men >>>> said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better >>>> after they were circumcised. >>>> >>>> Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the >>>> session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have >>>> shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their >>>> partners are circumcised. >>>> >>>> But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study >>>> involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. >>>> >>>> The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision >>>> to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 17:11:35 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:41:35 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rana, Your piece opens up a lot of avenues for thought, however there was one bit which particularly caught my interest. You wrote- In truth, however, the anglicised class to which Azim Premji and Nandan Nilekani belong is becoming marginalised from Indian society. Immense upheavals are afoot, and English-speaking sophisticates now speak about themselves as harried and besieged. They still enjoy many privileges, but as time goes on they see their values and sensibilities disappearing from the media and the streets, and they are faced with the troubling realisation that they no longer rule this society or dominate its imagination � or even understand the first thing about it. - Could you please elaborate more on this, because seen from the perspective of the ID card story, Nandan Nilekani and his friends, his 'anglicised' friends seem to have scored a point. It appears they are shifting the rules of the game. The land economy has gone bust. The IT has gone bust. The next big story in India after big dams, after global back office, after land and after education economy in all likelihood seems to be the knowledge processing industry and chip manufacturing industry and distribution and data maintenance industry driven by the idea of ID cards. And Delhi will have a new role, new players, and new lingo, I suppose. By saying -gone bust-, my suggestion is towards the scale of intended and expected investment in these sectors as opposed to investment in ID. And I think Delhi is slowly shifting towards that direction. Where are your MCs of this game, people who knows everyone for over two generations? You have got a new man in Delhi, Sir! who knew no one twenty years ago and now he is thinking of making every bloody Indian known to him in the next one year. Maybe land is not going to figure prominently in Capital Gains any more maybe it will be over sized libido of men hawking ID's ;) Warm regards Taha From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 17:21:05 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:21:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word but I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do. Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that are disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources. Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF makes its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened at the time. Or the decline in real wages. Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958. Thanks for the piece. warmly, Naga On 29/07/2009, Sudeshna Chatterjee wrote: > > Its a really good read! Highly recommended. > > Sudeshna > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta >wrote: > > > My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, from the > > current edition of Granta magazine. > > > > http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 > > > > Enjoy! > > > > R > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD > New Delhi, India > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 17:25:03 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:25:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New IT Act Message-ID: Dear all Since we all keep on posting one or the other article on the net, often criticizing someone or the other, I thought this may be an important article to read, considering that it could bring in sweeping changes of the kind not yet witnessed in India. (or that's what the article says at least, probably leading to conclusions like Taha jee put behind bars for stating views against the UID scheme, or me also going to jail for some other 'reason'). Please do go through the article, for it could be an attack on the 'freedom of speech', and as stated, could very certainly be an attack on privacy of individuals. While the need for security is there, one has to debate before bringing such acts in the statute to govern citizens. Regards Rakesh *it: cyber laws* *What Was The Password?* The new IT Act plans sweeping changes. But security, libel, privacy, the big issues will prove contentious. Arindam Mukherjee PRINT SHARE [image: Click to Share] COMMENTS We Are Watching - *Cyber police is watching* Government can monitor, intercept or even block any online content including e-mail that it thinks is offensive or could threaten national security. Could lead to misuse. - *Personal data up for grabs *Government agencies can now demand users' personal data from internet service providers. “We need to protect our strategic assets online.... The Act won’t be used to take away freedom of speech.”Sachin Pilot, MoS, IT Could lead to privacy issues and litigation. - *Beware of e-mail/MMS/SMS jokes *Exchange of messages/data that are “offensive, annoying or cause inconvenience” over any computing device will be treated as an offence. Open to interpretation. - *Intermediaries are better off *Service providers will not be held responsible for offensive content put up by websites, but will have to respond to state orders to block/ remove content within two hours. Could lead to technology issues. *** Here’s a wake-up call for those just digesting Pakistan’s ban on the “slander” of its leaders via SMS or e-mail. It might just pay to be careful while exchanging a joke about national leaders in India too. Anything you send or receive through the Net will soon come under the scanner—if it even remotely resembles anything “offensive or against national security”, you could well land up in jail. If the rules being drafted under the Information Technology (IT) Act come into force, the government will have sweeping new powers to monitor, intercept or even block any content—and also prosecute people. Pretty soon, millions of Indian users will find that it’s no longer easy to put up just about anything on the internet without bothering about it. A photograph, a joke or an innocent, honest comment on a contentious issue could prove to be troublesome depending on how a government agency interprets it. Drafted under the broad umbrella of cyber security, the rules (see box) give teeth to a new law passed by the government late last year. “Enemies of the state are clearly using the internet. We need some ability to intrude, stop them.”R. Chandrasekhar, IT entrepreneur It changes the system of penalties for cyber offences and makes it easy for government agencies to seek any information, including users’ personal data. This sudden extremism over Net activities stems from the 26/11 terrorist attacks in Mumbai last year, where internet and mobile technology was allegedly used to plan and execute the operation. India’s action here is not isolated and follows a pattern among countries like US and China, who are targeting terror aided by the internet. While the context behind the new rules-in-the-making is clear, there are wider concerns. This comes at a time when many Indians are discovering the freedom to voice opinions on the Net—via blogs, websites and forums. Now, comments that might be construed as libellous, objectionable or ‘anti-India’ could be taken off and their authors prosecuted. Leading blogger Amit Varma of *Indiauncut.com* (one of *Businessweek*’s most powerful Indians this year) says he’s “sceptical about giving public servants so much power over the rest of us. Governments are there to serve us, not rule us...these amendments show a ruler’s mentality. We are not the chattel of the government”. The fear and concern, as always, is the possibility of arbitrary (or motivated) reactions by the state. Some will argue this is akin to crying wolf, but the lack of confidence comes from numerous examples in the recent past where the state reacted in a ham-handed manner to prosecute people. There have already been cases where loose comments on historical figures like Shivaji and Mahatma Gandhi have invited the ire of some people. Now the arm of the law will also go after the authors. Government action could be swift—and without judicial intervention. The manner in which the government ordered internet service providers (ISPS) to block adult cartoon website * savitabhabhi.com* without giving it a chance to respond could be a precursor to a new digital era. Some are also viewing this as a government attempt at censorship of online media. Says Subho Ray, president of the internet body, IAMAI: “There is a feeling that under the garb of rules, they are bringing in Net censorship. There’s no limit to which the provisions can be stretched. It’s fragile. What’s worse...the rules pre-empt the judicial process by giving powers to government agencies.” Media organisations with electronic or online versions are also in a huddle. They feel this could seriously affect their working. In a statement, the News Broadcasters Association said: “What is now being done amounts to eavesdropping, taping and interception of electronic communications including, quite shockingly, the blocking of information or censorship of sites that disseminate news and information.” And since a large number of online news portals are an extension of their print versions, the tremors could be felt in the print sphere too. Obviously, the government feels otherwise. Says MoS for IT Sachin Pilot: “In no way will the Act be allowed to take away freedom of speech. The objective is not to endanger national security. We have a lot of strategic assets online. These need to be protected.” Legal experts, however, feel the new provisions could lead to increased litigation. “The amendments have been actuated with noble intentions but have come up with a hybrid creature which is neither effective, nor comprehensive,” warns cyber-law expert Pavan Duggal. He feels that while the new rules have enhanced the coverage of cyber crimes, its impact has been somewhat loosened by making most of them bailable—which could make arrests/conviction difficult. The other issue engaging internet companies and users is that of privacy. While the government justifies wire-tapping and looking into data and information being exchanged between individuals as a way to prevent terror attacks, many view this as an infringement. The rules make sending and receiving information that is “offensive, annoying and which is causing inconvenience” an offence. This, feel lawyers, not only infringes on privacy but also is open to interpretation as any data or information exchange could be termed offensive. Pilot, however, feels such a situation will not arise. As he says, “The government is quite conscious of this and is not looking to use this legislation to infringe upon people’s privacy.” Industry has been busy protecting its interests. The law absolves the intermediaries—typically ISPS, telcos, mobile value-added service providers and even web mail companies—of responsibility if any objectionable or offensive content surfaces on their service. So if you abuse a political leader on Yahoo or Google mail, or even a blog, you and not the mail or blog company would be held responsible and prosecuted. Recently, a Mumbai doctor moved the HC against alleged defamatory material posted on blogs on Google. While Google will not be held responsible, under the new regime the government might extract data about the users and go after them. The intermediaries are now liable to provide information and data about users to state agencies on demand. Naturally, they are up in arms, saying this violates confidentiality of user data. Says Amitabh Singhal, ex-president, ISPAI: “There should be a specific agency responsible for authorising such action or the government agencies should get a judicial mandate for seeking data. That will indemnify ISPS from being sued by users who provide personal data on the condition of confidentiality.” There is, however, a feeling that some amount of accountability is required from the ISPS—and other intermediaries. “The internet is clearly being used by the enemies of the state. We need some ability to intrude into the internet and stop that. There is a need to ensure that objectionable material have their sources identified. Anonymity is not permitted under the Act,” says RS member Rajeev Chandrasekhar, who was involved in the discussion process for the new rules. What is also bothering the ISPS is the fact that the new proposals give them just two hours to respond to any instruction given by a government agency to modify, remove or block a particular website or content. A more logical timeframe is needed to execute such orders as removing or blocking content is not just a local matter and requires them to tie up with local, national and international servers and companies—many of whom might not be accessible within those two hours. On the brighter side, the new rules remove the provision for fixed penalties, which were earlier prescribed. Those found guilty now would be required to pay “compensation”, the amount of which would depend upon the extent of the crime and damage, which would need to be established. This would ensure that cyber criminals will no longer be able to get away with paltry fines for crimes with serious ramifications. Lawyers, however, are sceptical about its effectiveness. Says Duggal: “In all the years that this law has been in existence, not a single rupee has been awarded to anyone.” One thing is clear. While the government is looking at national security as its primary premise for mounting the rules, India’s growing Net user base could find the going tougher in the future. There could now be many stumbling blocks in their smooth sailing over the World Wide Web. This deserves a bigger debate and a more careful parsing of the proposed rules. The devil, as always, lies in the details. From press at tank.tv Fri Jul 24 19:22:05 2009 From: press at tank.tv (tank.tv press) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:52:05 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] www.tank.tv Now Showing : Jacco Olivier Message-ID: <78c84f090907240652ufc6b966p3020db4894dc8886@mail.gmail.com> *www.tank.tv **Jacco Olivier 22nd July - 11th August 2009 on www.tank.tv tank.tv is pleased to present nine of Jacco Olivier’s animated works online at www.tank.tv from the 22nd July - 11th August 2009. The show will include work made between 2003 and 2009: 'BMK', 'Birds', 'Submerge', 'Sleep', 'Transit', 'Wood', 'Return', 'Run' and 'Almost'.* tank.tv is pleased to present a showcase of the work of Dutch artist Jacco Olivier. The short videos exemplify the dense painterly technique that has come to define Olivier within the realm of moving image and position him somewhere between painter, filmmaker and animator. Each work is "a slice of life" and the effect is of a feeling forgotten or a mystery unravelling. By witholding the signpost of narrative Olivier leaves viewers examining their own desires for these little, emotive pieces which seem like so much flotsam from the artist's own life. Whilst Olivier's technique describes intense labour the videos appear and disappear leaving the viewer in their deep, gentle wake. Jacco Olivier was born in 1972 in the Netherlands. He lives and works in Amsterdam. Visit www.tank.tv to explore Jacco Olivier's work as well as our online archive of previously exhibited work. -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA press at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Jacco Olivier 22nd July - 11th August 2009 Fresh Moves - Out now! Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From karimnonvore at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 09:29:12 2009 From: karimnonvore at gmail.com (karimnanvore karim) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:29:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Migrant Pandit family returns home Message-ID: *Migrant Pandit family returns home *KT NEWS SERVICE SRINAGAR, July 26: A migrant Pandit family returned to its native place Kandi Kupwara on Friday after 22 years. Since the house of Somnath was gutted some years before, a local, Bashir Ahmad offered his house for Somnath and his family to stay put. Reports said that the locals received the family warmly, when it reached Kandi on Friday. Some 14 members of Somnath's family including forest guard, Chaman Lal, Som Lal, Boshan Lal and others are living in house of Bashir Ahmad. Following the return of migrant Pandit family, besides locals, people from adjoining areas are visiting the family to enquire about their well being and assure them all security to stay put at their native place without any fear. It is to mention that Pinky, a family member, a teacher by profession is living at Kandi for past many years. From research at crymail.org Tue Jul 28 17:21:51 2009 From: research at crymail.org (Research) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:21:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CRY announce- National Child Rights Research Fellowship 2009-10 Message-ID: <124CDD6AE49FA54A9C604769B4CD312B8FF9FB86@cryexchange.crymail.org> National Child Rights Research Fellowships 2009 – 10 Childhood in India is not uniformly experienced; infact several childhoods co-exist, childhoods of social and economic status, physical and mental ability as well as geographical location to name a few. Respecting children as sovereign, equal members is a step towards recognising their voices in defining their best interest as participants and not just mute beneficiaries. Child Rights and You (CRY) welcomes applications exploring the various dimensions of child rights, the best interest principle, within the constitutional framework of Justice for Children. We seek new ideas, a combination of formal and informal approaches to explore and discover, simple and complex truths about the interplay of culture, laws, ethics and policies determining childhoods. Possible Focus Areas You are welcome to expand and interpret the themes, based on their life experiences and vision. • Creativity and imagination, in the experience and expression of childhoods, researching stories, folk songs, poems, as metaphors for social interactions • Explorations of the relationships of the child with other children, with the State, community and the family • Evidences of the assertion or rejection of the role of children in decision making arenas, such as home, school, work and play spaces and governing institutions v Gather evidence on relationships between ethnicity, inequality and conflict as witnessed and/or experienced by children • Is best interest principle, a value, a constitutional right, an interpretative advocacy instrument or a rule of law? Principles governing the Fellowship Eligibility: Applicants will be Indians residing in India, above the age of 18 years. Those previously awarded this fellowship are ineligible. Preference will be given to applicants who have studied in government schools, where no fees are charged. (Studies conducted and CRY's experiential learning of working with over 2000 deprived communities in villages and urban slums demonstrates that students attending government schools are primarily Dalits, tribals, girls and children from female headed and/or landless households.) It is expected that potential fellows ascribe to the CRY values: Respect for Human Dignity; Secularism; Non-Violence; Accountability; Innovation Transparency; Working in Partnership Language: Applicants may choose to work in any Indian language including English. Please clearly indicate the language, you plan to work with. As assessment of the application, will be conducted both in English and your working language, please include an English translation of the proposal, CV and work sample. Grant Sizes: In all up-to 10 fellowships for grant sizes ranging from Rs.50, 000 to Rs.1 lakh will be awarded. These will be support grants and fellows are free to continue their primary occupation. Proposals above one lakh will not be reviewed. Essential requirements 1. A three-page proposal, which briefly explains your topic of study, outlines the research question within a framework, proposed methodology, time schedules, a reading list of related literature/existing studies on the subject and a detailed budget 2. A two-page CV 3. A sample of your published or unpublished paper/article or any documentation done on a related theme. Proposals whose duration exceeds a year will not be reviewed Selected fellows will participate in an initial workshop to share research plans and gain from the collective experience closer to March 2010 and will also participate at a half yearly sharing meeting. CRY will sponsor travel, boarding and lodging for both these meetings. Short-listed applicants will have opportunity to share their ideas and future plans, in conversation with members of the CRY assessment team. Dissemination: Research results will be made available to activists, academics, development practitioners and interested general public through multiple fora, including language translations to influence the course of the debate on child rights and the best interest principle. Ownership: While fellows will retain authorship of the final research report and content, all information and insights gathered will be open access and available to the widest possible numbers, for no charge. Fellows are free to publish the insights of their research efforts, with appropriate acknowledgement to the National Child Rights Research Fellowship and CRY. If your proposal is part of a submission to any academic institution it will be ineligible for this fellowship as also if the fellow is already receiving funding for conduct of the research proposed. In case during the course of the Fellowship, the fellow feels the need to expand the scope and add greater depth, it is expected that CRY will be informed first about the need for additional funds. Also any other donors reached out to will be informed about CRY support for the principal work. Last Date for application is September 12th, 2009. Please E-mail your application to: research at crymail.org in the absence of internet access you may send your application by post to CRY-Child Rights and You, Documentation Centre, 189 A, Anand Estate, Sane Guruji Marg, Mumbai 400011. The names of researchers awarded the Fellowship will be announced on the CRY website Latest by April 2010. Regards, Research Team From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jul 28 18:14:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:44:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Israeli IT firms to bid for unique ID card project- 154 In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40907220400n73db0ae7rc40c3f4e83bd5493@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907221437p7fe5d790p60fc1c673a3f8102@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907280544q3643b74esb2a4ef5d5355ad9c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pankhuree, Thank you for responding. I think your imagination of a possibility that, " Maybe it is not that India's poor will be instantly transformed into consumers, maybe it is possible they will be consumed" might not be entirely incorrect. However the terms of such a consumption might be both voluntarily and coercive or a combination of both. For instance, I do not think that all those who 'donate' their organs to other people, do it willfully. or for that matter, all those who donate have access to the internet. ID cards in such a manner could work in a counter productive manner too, that a service could be consumed by those who put in the lowest bid. An assumption behind this argument could be, that since information is the key and the access to information related to the-producers-of-service is with the consumers or handlers ( the go-between people) then ID cards with all its tall claims might only work in favor of few consumers. ID card is a knowledge game. Information is being harvested from one and all in the name of security, poverty and efficiency. The process of harvesting this information is infested with private vendors. The management of this information, in all likelihood will therefore go to private vendors too. Of course this type of information will be of immense use to the corporates but, I think, in the long run, it will depend on how this information permeates the public realm. I like your reference to possible future scenarios developed by Ms Klein and yes I think if that were to happen ID cards will play a big role. Precisely because of the fact, that ID cards, especially of the contact less variety, are crucial to the politics of regulating access. Who is in and who is out will depend on the number they will have. Social sorting also becomes relatively easy with ID cards and this is something not unknown to players in say, mobile/cell phone business. How social sorting will be incorporated in policies of the State will, I think, be known to us in near future? So yes scary, it will be, but I do not know how different that scare will be from say, scare that some people face now. When there is gating of colonies in cities like Delhi and the guards manning the gates are instructed to allow people with less or no questioning who fit in a particular social profile and subject to detailed questioning all those 'other' people, who do not look a particular social type. I think that scare may be absorbed in the everyday and people might somehow develop a way around it either by imbibing a change in terms of access or maybe by resisting it or incorporating it or perhaps by overpowering such technology by using processes like reverse engineering. Maybe the culture of scare spilling from the side of the State which assimilates shades of benignity and concern and could be punitive too is the one which needs to looked into carefully. Not necessarily of the material sorts but of the ideational sorts. Warm regards Taha From contactus at indiaifa.org Wed Jul 29 12:48:05 2009 From: contactus at indiaifa.org (India Foundation for the Arts) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:48:05 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Film Screening 'Out of Thin Air' Message-ID: <20090729071805.C074D3711EF@md70.mailserve.net>  India Foundation for the Arts in collaboration with   The India International Centre   Cordially invite you to the screening of the documentary film   Out of Thin Air   Directed by Shabani Hassanwalia & Samreen Farooqi  (This film was funded by India Foundation for the Arts’s Arts Research and Documentation programme in 2007) The screening will be followed by a Q&A session moderated by Ms Githa Hariharan Venue:   The India International Centre, Delhi Date:   August 3, 2009 Time:   6.30 pm (Entry is free) RSVP: Vindya – vindya at indiaifa.org Tele / Fax: 91 80 23414681 / 82    'Out of Thin Air’ is the story of one of the most surreal and hostile landscapes in the world. It is the story of Ladakh, a Buddhist union territory of 2,70,000 people, in the northernmost frontier of India, where icy winds can freeze the tears in your eyes while your feet are burning to cinder, because at 12,000 feet above sea level, you are very close to the sun. This is the story of Ladakh, not through the postcards that tourists often see, but through the subterranean, local film movement that has taken such strong root here in the last six years, that it has become a voice of the people. Today, taxi drivers, grocery store owners, cops and monks are producers, directors, camerapersons and actors of one of the youngest, and most dynamic, local film industries in the world.   India Foundation for the Arts (IFA) is an independent, nationwide philanthropy, professionally managed, and dedicated to strengthening the arts in India.  IFA has funded 249 projects across 22 states dedicating a sum of 13.4 crore to the Arts. We support research and practice leading to films, books, artworks, archives, exhibitions and performances. We help to bring the arts into the classroom. We fund the preservation and transmission of valuable cultural knowledge. We offer advice, information and expertise related to the Indian arts. From iram at sarai.net Wed Jul 29 18:08:35 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:08:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Re: Professor's views on homosexuality and more... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7042CB.5040904@sarai.net> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Chandni Parekh > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:06:24 +0530 > Subject: Re: Professor's views on homosexuality and more... > > http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/28/14918/ > > Excerpts: > > A follow-up to the NYU Law/Dr. Li-ann Thio drama: Apparently Dr. Thio > has decided not to come and teach at NYU > , > citing hostility from students. I put in my two cents about Dr. Thio > here > . > > A good friend of mine, who also went to NYU Law, emailed me about the > situation, and I found her perspsective pretty compelling. With her > permission, it’s posted below. > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 18:04:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:34:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290534v39408925ne2d9598683af66f7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Tapas, Dear Pawan and Dear All I think we just have to wait for a year before hopefully we will all have our UID numbers then perhaps rioters too will become more sophisticated. If these days RSS and VHP and BJP and SS goons go around an area carrying voter lists, as evidenced by systematic butchering of Mussalmaaans in Gujarat then later perhaps, they could be more precise by zoning in on fingerprints, area codes and what not. They might just ask for your thumb print and tally it on a machine before driving that sword down your throat. After all multi-purposes will have other benefits too. But to complicate the this argument let me tell you guys a real story. A cousin of mine from Ahmedabad once told his story of being a victim of riots. This happened during the Advani rath yatra time. He was traveling from Delhi to Ahmedabad that day. Just when he left the rail way station he realized that riots are happening in the city. There were no taxis or auto-rickshaws, so he started walking in the hope that he might come across some people be it Hindus or Muslims and they might give me a lift to his place. He, by the way, didn't look 'Muslim' at all. He was clean shaven with urban looks and all. He could pass off as anyone. He was smart and suave and confident. By and by he crossed an area where came across a group of men who were hiding behind the entrance of a gully. They accosted him but he couldn't make out who they were either. For they were too, like him, clean shaven and without any visible mark of identification. So they asked him what his name was, so he said that his name was Ramesh, thinking that they were Hindus. Hearing this one of them drew a sword, 'Hindu hai sala'! They were Muslims. He thanked God and told them he was a brother like them too. They asked him to open his pants and show them his circumcision mark. Now here's the interesting bit because my cousin had never cared to go for a circumcision. He opened his pants, people saw his uncircumcised penis and thrust a sword in his belly with a nara-e-takbir accompanying the action. He let out a scream Ya Allah! That somehow made them realize that he was a Muslim. People do not wear any mask when they are in danger of their lives, it seems. They asked his name again and he told them that it was Arif. They took him to a hospital where the doctor initially refuse to treat him after getting to know that his name was Arif, it was only after examining his uncircumcised penis that the doctor was convinced that he was indeed Ramesh and treated him. What happened to Arif was unfortunate but it was also terribly funny too, in a way. The madness and social nervousness around identity was all apparent. I think with the coming up of ID cards there must be systematic and equitable distribution of personal information amongst both Muslim and Hindu rioters. For it would be depressing to come across an Arif like case again. On the other hand I think as long as we in India are going to make a big fuss about who we are then there's definitely going to be someone who will be laughing all the way to a bank somewhere. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 19:39:48 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:09:48 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] India needs to define smartcard standards- 174 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290709y2e061229sf4eb46782f79d121@mail.gmail.com> Dear All This story below seems to allude to what Jeebesh has mentioned few weeks ago regarding 'taste'. That with an artificial need to have a mass based ID card also comes a real fear of heterogeneous technology, is all too apparent amongst the players who are based in India. Now this is something to think about. So what's its going to be, One nation, One citizen, One card, One technology, One number, One fingerprint, One data base? Will it also have One bank and One vendor network? We certainly do have One Program, One Man, One mask, One objective and One deadline now. What happens to Nehru and his ideas about diversity? Well....it seems that for some people it is not that important to know where are we coming from as it is important to have an idea of where we are moving towards...for me one is thing is as important as the other... Warm regards Taha http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/India_needs_to_define_smartcard_standards_-nid-59871.html India needs to define smartcard standards- By Benny Thomas Tuesday,28 July 2009, 18:39 hrs Bangalore: Soon India is expected to go the smartcard way and many semiconductor companies are trying to grab the sea of opportunities in this emerging segment. However, there is a concern that is shared by these companies, "The standards in which the smartcards need to be designed and manufactured are yet to be defined by the government," says Vivek Sharma, Vice President APAC - India Operations and Director of India Design Centers, STMicroelectronics (ST). Delay in defining the standards could hamper the entrepreneurs to avail the opportunities available in this segment. Gujarat was the first Indian state to introduce the smartcard license system in 1999. Gujarat government has issued more than five million smart card driving licenses. This card is basically a plastic card having ISO/IEC 7810 certification and integrated circuit, capable of storing and verifying information according to its programming. The identity smartcards issued by the Spanish and Belgian governments to its citizens contain two certificates: one for authentication and one for signature. There is a need for industry's participation to define the standards for smartcards in India. "Most of the players in the industry would like to participate with the government to define the standards," says Sharma. The National ID cards in countries like Japan, Spain, Thailand, Bahrain and Italy use ST's smart card chip. In Germany and France, the health smart card also uses ST's chip technology. "We hope to bring our global standards to India," adds Sharma. The company has two Indian design centers in Noida and Bangalore, where more than 2,000 engineers work. When dealing with the personal information of over a billion people, the security aspect cannot be ignored to prevent the misuse of data. Sharma says, "Security is a very important issue for smartcards." Looking at the potential in India, Sharma is confident that all the hardware and software required for the project can be developed within the country. These can be customized as per the needs of the country, providing the best security backup. The demand for smartcards for Unique Identification Project (UID) of the government is also likely to fuel the demand for chips for card readers, terminals, biometric sensors, printers, personalization and computer systems. From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 19:50:19 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:50:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pact with ASEAN will hit fisheries, farm sector Message-ID: <3457ce860907290720k698443e5ic39ef6c2d308bf18@mail.gmail.com> [image: http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/images/express_buzz.gif] *By Express News Service 27 Jul 2009 12:15:05 PM IST* *‘Pact with ASEAN will hit fisheries, farm sector * THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Kerala Swathanthra Malsyathozhilali Federation (KSMTF) and Focus on the Global South, a regional research and campaign group, said that the Central Government’s decision to sign a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with ASEAN would have an adverse impact on the livelihoods of thousands of people engaged the fisheries and agriculture sectors, especially in the state. Afsar Jafri of the Global South and T Peter of the KSMTF in a joint statement issued on Sunday said that the FTA would hit the state more severely because of the large number of people engaged in fishing, fish vending and processing. In recent years, the fish stocks have depleted, due to over-fishing by trawlers and foreign vessels and fish prices have crashed due to imports of cheaper varieties forcing many to give up fishing. Further liberalisation in fisheries sector to increase trade will precipitate the problems of the fishing community, the statement said. The biggest threat will come from imports from Thailand, the world’s largest exporter of farmed shrimps and Vietnam, the world’s eight largest seafood exporter. The FTA is likely to permit zero tariff imports of sardines, mackerels, anchovies and crabs. Cheaper imports of local popular varieties such as cuttlefish, squid, shrimp, sole and pomfret will spell doom to fishing communities, the statement said. If the FTA allows Thai fishing vessels access the Indian territorial waters, it would only intensify over-fishing and the damage to fish stocks, especially given the lack of prudent national fish regulations and policies in the country. Malaysia’s palm oil industry has been a strong lobby for the FTA. Malaysia is the world’s largest producer of palm oil and duty-free import of palm oil into the Indian market would depress the prices of local products. Other sections which will be affected in India include small-scale tea, coffee, coconut, rubber and pepper farmers, the statement said. © Copyright 2008 ExpressBuzz Bottom of Form http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/print.aspx?artid=Ui9XEoNFwVY= ============================ [image: http://www.hinduonnet.com/icons/hindu_w150.gif] *Date:27/07/2009* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2009/07/27/stories/2009072759900500.htm* ------------------------------ Kerala *‘Proposed trade pact will affect State’ * Special Correspondent Thiruvanathapuram: The Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has expressed concern over the impact of the proposed trade pact with the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) on Kerala. A release, quoting State president of the federation T. Peter, said the proposed pact would lead to loss of livelihood in the fisheries and agriculture sectors. “The Cabinet approval, overlooking the objections raised by senior Ministers like Defence Minister A.K. Antony and Overseas Indian Affairs Minister Vayalar Ravi, is against the spirit of the assurances given by the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government to protect the livelihood of millions of people engaged in the agriculture and fisheries sectors,” it said. “In 2006, Congress president Sonia Gandhi in her then capacity as National Advisory Council chairperson had written a cautionary letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh asking for a careful scrutiny of the ASEAN-India Free Trade Agreement, given the agrarian crisis and its potential impact on sectors such as edible oil, coffee, tea and pepper,” the release said. “At a time of deep financial and agrarian crisis, many countries are today shunning free trade policies. Mr. Manmohan Singh’s contention that India will be isolated in the world economy if it does not sign the agreement is not based on an assessment of ground realities,” the release said. It said the federation would mobilise farmers, workers and other sections of society against the proposed trade pact that would affect the lives of millions of people across the country. From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 19:55:37 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:55:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pact with ASEAN will hit fisheries, farm sector Message-ID: <3457ce860907290725x539ec01dyec4edb968280857e@mail.gmail.com> [image: http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/images/express_buzz.gif] *By Express News Service 27 Jul 2009 12:15:05 PM IST* *‘Pact with ASEAN will hit fisheries, farm sector * THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Kerala Swathanthra Malsyathozhilali Federation (KSMTF) and Focus on the Global South, a regional research and campaign group, said that the Central Government’s decision to sign a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with ASEAN would have an adverse impact on the livelihoods of thousands of people engaged the fisheries and agriculture sectors, especially in the state. Afsar Jafri of the Global South and T Peter of the KSMTF in a joint statement issued on Sunday said that the FTA would hit the state more severely because of the large number of people engaged in fishing, fish vending and processing. In recent years, the fish stocks have depleted, due to over-fishing by trawlers and foreign vessels and fish prices have crashed due to imports of cheaper varieties forcing many to give up fishing. Further liberalisation in fisheries sector to increase trade will precipitate the problems of the fishing community, the statement said. The biggest threat will come from imports from Thailand, the world’s largest exporter of farmed shrimps and Vietnam, the world’s eight largest seafood exporter. The FTA is likely to permit zero tariff imports of sardines, mackerels, anchovies and crabs. Cheaper imports of local popular varieties such as cuttlefish, squid, shrimp, sole and pomfret will spell doom to fishing communities, the statement said. If the FTA allows Thai fishing vessels access the Indian territorial waters, it would only intensify over-fishing and the damage to fish stocks, especially given the lack of prudent national fish regulations and policies in the country. Malaysia’s palm oil industry has been a strong lobby for the FTA. Malaysia is the world’s largest producer of palm oil and duty-free import of palm oil into the Indian market would depress the prices of local products. Other sections which will be affected in India include small-scale tea, coffee, coconut, rubber and pepper farmers, the statement said. © Copyright 2008 ExpressBuzz Bottom of Form http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/print.aspx?artid=Ui9XEoNFwVY= ============================ [image: http://www.hinduonnet.com/icons/hindu_w150.gif] *Date:27/07/2009* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2009/07/27/stories/2009072759900500.htm* ------------------------------ Kerala *‘Proposed trade pact will affect State’ * Special Correspondent Thiruvanathapuram: The Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has expressed concern over the impact of the proposed trade pact with the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) on Kerala. A release, quoting State president of the federation T. Peter, said the proposed pact would lead to loss of livelihood in the fisheries and agriculture sectors. “The Cabinet approval, overlooking the objections raised by senior Ministers like Defence Minister A.K. Antony and Overseas Indian Affairs Minister Vayalar Ravi, is against the spirit of the assurances given by the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government to protect the livelihood of millions of people engaged in the agriculture and fisheries sectors,” it said. “In 2006, Congress president Sonia Gandhi in her then capacity as National Advisory Council chairperson had written a cautionary letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh asking for a careful scrutiny of the ASEAN-India Free Trade Agreement, given the agrarian crisis and its potential impact on sectors such as edible oil, coffee, tea and pepper,” the release said. “At a time of deep financial and agrarian crisis, many countries are today shunning free trade policies. Mr. Manmohan Singh’s contention that India will be isolated in the world economy if it does not sign the agreement is not based on an assessment of ground realities,” the release said. It said the federation would mobilise farmers, workers and other sections of society against the proposed trade pact that would affect the lives of millions of people across the country. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jul 29 20:02:42 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:32:42 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <5c5369880907290549i290a1638k2fe88cd263f53448@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290534v39408925ne2d9598683af66f7@mail.gmail.com> <5c5369880907290541s30fa67gfa8f5a26a6a38500@mail.gmail.com> <5c5369880907290549i290a1638k2fe88cd263f53448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907290732v7b4c5c4q5f1586fadd130293@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sanjay, You're welcome!! But tears and laughter apart I am amazed by the articulate silence on part of our so called intelligentsia and the so called media to produce informed ideas and arguments about identity, identification and identification practices. In the recent history we have seen how -Identity- was used, especially in the late eighties and nineties, as a force to mobilize people for political capital and after twenty years this notion has become so everyday that there's going to be a massive, massive transfer of capital in the name of securing identities of all 'Indians' and there seems to be absolutely no sophisticated, intelligent, critical discourse emerging from our so called sociologists, political scientists, economists, documentary film makers to analyze, inform and engage active citizenry. Maybe it is time to do a real time analysis of an unfolding social reality and built some stakes in way in which we are governed or we want to be governed. Here we are... still debating about circumcision, when the State is telling us, that LOOK!!! circumcision may not matter any more. All men can grow beard and all can have their penis circumcised, so long as their fingerprints are in order, so long as they have a plastic token, so long as they are remembered by a digital archive. Warm regards Taha From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Thu Jul 30 01:36:17 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 01:36:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <4A7034CA.1010002@gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <4b1e36590907290123l407fd433if10700da464101fd@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907290135j4a1ded0agc5037ea3e9a84a50@mail.gmail.com> <4A7034CA.1010002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <510156.25234.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Males can identify and male-male aggression takes up fast for mutual roles, but guess how males identify female victims in Riots? Sometimes by bindis, at other times a policeman shows them the way to plunder................... Somehow we make assosciations of Virality with Victory, as if we still live in the stone age era of progeny, the destrucytion of a Vagina as a male property,  hate based o genitals, is it simply because of intensit assosciated with biological desire, or it more importantly assosciated with how we learn to look at things how we assosciate anyone who learns English uses The 4 letter F word so often as if that proves u understand everything how Progeny can be created....................................................... Thats the end of every thing. On a personal note, I follow a rule Do not Fancy Boozing without drinking and Do not Use Sex without realising what or how pleasurable it is! Else I feel loosing the crux of it, one turns out to be a pervert. We like to discuss others practices and concerns of hygeine but end up being merely voyeuristic and making jokes. We think women are Pure, but in reality they join in, commiting the most brutal blunder for their so caled sanctity. Whole villages beside delhi, entire muslim bastis existed, every man burnt alive, and every woman sold off....................... Thats reality friends, and when we talk of circumspection instead of medical term violence comes into our mind, may be because it Hinders other senses or may be coz we get too deterministic that pain will wnd in Pain( it all started with a pain, remember?) As if a fantasisied truth that the world would be better off without some people holds true, as we have a future no past. Anyways the truth is my doc adviced me on safe sex knowing I am circumscribed, so anyone who publishes such crap must be like showing a human heart (too large for a human being let me asure u) Jerking with pumped blood with Quoran playing in background!  How easily we pick up the friction assosciate violence and create enemity. Indeed Experience tells us it is easier to identify oneself by the ones he hates/////////////////// I do not advocate peace, I do not deny the existance and need of struggle for survival, at the same time inserting my semen into somebody else's wife can not be on the ground that he raped mine,  doesnt do any good to me ,and my wife being happy at it, only intensifies her problem and her state before my eyes. Struggle should be only undertaken if it serves purpose, serves good.   ________________________________ From: Tapas Ray Cc: Sarai Reader-list Sent: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009 5:08:50 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision ;)) Pawan Durani wrote: > Appu , > > Tapas would try to link everything wrong with Hindus , RSS ....... The > problem with him is that his ideology of Communism is dead everywhere > in the world and WB is having the last nail in the Communist Empire. > > People like Tapas want to demonise the Hindu society to keep its > minorty appeasement and sickularism alive , even if it is relevant in > some discussion or not. > > Even in prevention of AIDS , he wants to discusss Hindu extremism.... > > Sick of his thinnking ....... > > Pawan > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Appu Esthose Suresh wrote: >> "and physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >> themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots".... >> >> Again this was also put into use in equal no of occasions to identify >> Hindus, who were trying to escape from the rioters ... It worked both way >> around and still works... >> >> Also, it is not just the Hindu popular imaginary; I guess others also >> relates it the same way... >> >> "It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >>  preventing HIV.. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >>  prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >>  Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >>  practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >>  its Muslim other? " >> >> Try to remember that Vatican and Muslim clergy (at least in many countries) >> still denounce use of condoms...What I am trying to mention here is that it >> isn't necessary that the a scientific reasoning been accepted on its merit, >> and that is not certainly typical of Hindus alone... >> >> regards >> >> Appu Esthose Suresh >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Pawan Durani >> wrote: >>> Tapas : You are a pervert . Can it not be a vice versa when you quote >>> "A crude term referring to this practice isoften used as a substitute >>> for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and physical evidence of it is >>> used to identify Muslims trying to pass themselves off as Hindus in >>> order to escape death in riots" >>> >>> You are obsesses with mixing everything to build hate against Hindu. >>> >>> Pawan >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: >>>> Sorry, my previous post did not have the complete subject line. I have >>>> corrected that, and a small error in the body of the text in this post. >>>> >>>> ----------------- >>>> >>>> Male circumcision is a prominent marker of the Muslim other in India's >>>> Hindu popular imaginary. A crude term referring to this practice is >>>> often used as a substitute for the words 'Muslim' and 'Mussalman', and >>>> physical evidence of it is used to identify Muslims trying to pass >>>> themselves off as Hindus in order to escape death in riots. The term has >>>> been used on this list by one esteemed member if I remember correctly. >>>> >>>> It seems scientists are researching male circumcision as a means of >>>> preventing HIV. I do not know if it already is part of the AIDS >>>> prevention regime anywhere. But if it does become one some day, will >>>> Hindu fundamentalists resist it on the ground that it is an Islamic >>>> practice? What will it do to the Hindu popular imaginary of itself and >>>> its Muslim other? These are two of the questions that came to mind, and >>>> I wanted to share with the list, as I read this report. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://men.webmd.com/news/20090721/male-circumcision-improves-sex-life-for-women?ecd=wnl_men_072809 >>>> >>>> Male Circumcision Improves Sex for Women >>>> Survey Results Are Part of Study That Showed Circumcision Reduces a >>>> Man's HIV Risk >>>> By Charlene Laino >>>> WebMD Health News >>>> Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD >>>> >>>> July 21, 2009 (Cape Town, South Africa) -- Women whose male sexual >>>> partners were circumcised report an improvement in their sex life, a >>>> survey shows. >>>> >>>> Researchers studied 455 partners of men in Uganda who were recently >>>> circumcised. Nearly 40% said sex was more satisfying afterward. About >>>> 57% reported no change in sexual satisfaction, and only 3% said sex was >>>> less satisfying after their partner was circumcised. >>>> >>>> Also, some women said their partner had less or no difficulty >>>> maintaining or getting an erection. >>>> >>>> Among the 3% of women who reported reduced sexual satisfaction, the top >>>> two reasons were lower levels of desire on the part of either partner. >>>> >>>> Top reasons cited by women for their better sex life: improved hygiene, >>>> longer time for their partner to achieve orgasm, and their partner >>>> wanting more frequent sex, says Godfrey Kigozi, MD, of the Rakai Health >>>> Sciences Program in Kalisizo, Uganda. >>>> >>>> Kigozi tells WebMD he undertook the survey because some activists have >>>> objected to male circumcision as a means of combating HIV because of a >>>> lack of data on female sexual satisfactions. >>>> >>>> The findings were presented at the Fifth International AIDS Society >>>> Conference on Pathogenesis, Treatment and Prevention of HIV. >>>> >>>> The women in the study all participated in the landmark Rakai >>>> circumcision trial, one of three studies that showed that the procedure >>>> reduces a heterosexual man's risk of acquiring HIV by more than 50%. >>>> >>>> "We included only women who said they were sexually satisfied before >>>> [their partner was circumcised]," Kigozi says. "Then we asked them to >>>> compare their sexual satisfaction before and afterward." >>>> >>>> Men feel much the same way, he adds. In a previous survey, 97% of men >>>> said their level of sexual satisfaction was either unchanged or better >>>> after they were circumcised. >>>> >>>> Naomi Block, MD, of the CDC's HIV Prevention Branch, who chaired the >>>> session at which the study was presented, says that other surveys have >>>> shown that women don't expect their sex lives to change if their >>>> partners are circumcised. >>>> >>>> But those were "what if?" surveys, she tells WebMD, while the new study >>>> involves women whose partners were actually circumcised. >>>> >>>> The findings are "good news" as they show that the use of circumcision >>>> to fight HIV is acceptable to women, Block says. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 30 08:13:30 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:43:30 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Hip hop from Iran - download Message-ID: <15313096.1248921810971.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hip hop from Iran: http://soundcloud.com/dj-spooky/azadi-the-new-complexity it's in Farsi, but hey... I just thought I'd pass it along. People like the track! There's also a video: http://www.united4iran.org/ Paul From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 08:51:21 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:51:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Cartoon Album by Radhika Menon on 100 Days Plan on Edu Reforms Under Globalization Message-ID: <1f9180970907292021w141fcf63ycb991a17588ec23b@mail.gmail.com> Please watch here the cartoon comments by Radhika Menon on the action plan recently announced by the Minister for HRD Mr.Kabil Sibbal : http://picasaweb.google.co.in/lh/sredir?uname=radhikamenon1&target=ALBUM&id=5363906676983046689&authkey=Gv1sRgCJOJybudqeS2dg&feat=email From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 09:06:39 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:06:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The snake called .........! Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907292036h6d1cd68q27a217f0ca315867@mail.gmail.com> http://hshekhar.blogspot.com/2009/07/snake-called-370.html?showComment=1248924921057#c3182743077247638708 From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 30 09:48:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:18:49 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [Fwd: Re: HIV and male circumcision] In-Reply-To: <4A7090CB.6050506@gmail.com> References: <4A7090CB.6050506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907292118n36d3bf03oa135b2528ec69100@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tapas Ray Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:11 PM Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision] To: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Taha, The post below bounced from the list, so I have sent it again. If it doesn't go through this time, could you please forward it to the list? I would really appreciate that. Thanks, Tapas -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:05:11 -0400 From: Tapas Ray To: Sarai Reader-list Taha, Thank you so much for your informative and insightful posts in this thread. The tragicomic account of your cousin's brush with death shows what may be in store for Hindus who have undergone the procedure, at the hands of fellow Hindus, just as your cousin was so kindly bought a ticket to heaven by his fellow Muslims - a ticket he so ungraciously failed to utilise. (I am assuming that your cousin is a good man and does not have to go to hell.) You are right about the cards. Beards, penises, dresses, sacred threads and tikas (the last two mentioned by an irate list members in an offlist message) will not matter when we all have those little plastic cards. But just the cards won't do. Potential rioters (Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist, etc.) will have to beg, borrow, steal, grab or - in the worst case - buy small, portable card readers. Just as you have noted in relation to the cards, there also are great opportunities in the card reader business for the entrepreneurially inclined, if any, among us. The readers should be, preferably, networked with central databases so that the subject's family, place of work, etc., can be located. In case s/he has been unsporting enough to make her/himself scarce from home, s/he and her/his folks can be easily found so that the business at hand does not have to wait. Assuming that some of the rioters may not be literate, the readers should have visual and aural indicators for subjects of different religions. For instance, there may be a flashing  saffron LED and the sound of "aarti" bells when a Hindu is identified, a  flashing green LED and the sound of azaan when a Mussalman is identified, etc. There are plenty of possibilities. One simply needs some vision and imagination to profit/benefit from them. I shall be happy to offer my services as a consultant, with a discounted fee for list members only. Till offers last and conditions may apply. Tapas Taha Mehmood wrote: > > Dear Sanjay, > > You're welcome!! > > But tears and laughter apart I am amazed by the articulate silence on > part of our so called intelligentsia and the so called media to > produce informed ideas and arguments about identity, identification > and identification practices. > > In the recent history we have seen how -Identity- was used, especially > in the late eighties and nineties, as a force to mobilize people for > political capital and after twenty years this notion has become so > everyday that there's going to be a massive, massive transfer of > capital in the name of securing identities of all 'Indians' and there > seems to be absolutely no sophisticated, intelligent, critical > discourse emerging from our so called sociologists, political > scientists, economists, documentary film makers to analyze, inform and > engage active citizenry. Maybe it is time to do a real time analysis > of an unfolding social reality and built some stakes in way in which > we are governed or we want to be governed. > > Here we are... still debating about circumcision, when the State is > telling us, that LOOK!!! circumcision may not matter any more. All men > can grow beard and all can have their penis circumcised, so long as > their fingerprints are in order, so long as they have a plastic token, > so long as they are remembered by a digital archive. > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 30 12:01:51 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:01:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] YJA - Supreme Court decides in Yamuna Case Message-ID: <16E53770-F2F4-4995-8AD3-D8F9F134DD69@sarai.net> From: yamunajiye at gmail.com Dear Friends, Not unexpectdely, a three member bench of the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India today set aside in to-to the judgement of the High Court of Delhi in the Yamuna case (Rajendra Singh and othrs v Govt of Delhi and othrs). It declared its judgement based on just a single day hearing on 15 July 2009 where no experts were ever consulted that: a) The area in question is not even the flood plains b) The Supreme Court Judgement in the Akshardham case (where the court itself had observed that because the petitioners are unable to REBUT the DDA's affidavit .....) is a binding precedence c) The NEERI report 2008 (which had been blasted by both the judges at the HC of Delhi as being tailor made to suit the DDA's interests) is valid and applicable d) That a committee headed by the Lt Governor, CM of Delhi and Dr RK Pachauri shall monitor the construction (what is still left to monitor we fail to understand). But if everything is fine then what is left to be monitored? Clearly the Supreme Court has gone overboard in its efforts to please the powers that be. An existing murder of the flood plains (Akshardham) has been used to justify the murder of yet another part of the river bed / flood plains. It is the very NADIR. The people of this country have been failed on their river front; a) By the legislative who have failed to legislate for the rivers till date b) By the executive who despite knowing all the wrong it were committing has persisted with it c) And now by the Judiciary that has gone totaly overboard without even a semblence of sanity So now it is left only to the PEOPLE"S COURT to tell all the three organs of the state that U ARE IN THE WRONG. Our rivers and their flood plains are not commodities to be exploited but life giving entities to be preserved avd revered. We shall soon deconstruct the Supreme Court judgement line by line for your information. As a beginning kindly peruse the file notings in the matter as we had received under the RTI Act to see for yourself the dirty game of vested interests playing havoc with the life line river. Kindly note in particular the hand written notings where conditional clearance has been issued not because merit decides so but because "the DDA is pressing hard". It is also time for the SUNITA NARAINS, MEDHA PATKARS, HIMANSHU THAKKARS, DINESH MISHRAS, INTACHs and WWFs etc in the country to come out in open and resist the onslaught of the state on our rivers. AMEN ! Happy reading..... Manoj Misra Convenor From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 30 12:11:32 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:11:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Note on the eve of Right to Education Bill in Lok Sabha Message-ID: <7A80321C-2947-4AF9-8A2C-2F4F5779707F@sarai.net> From Anil Sadgopal 29th July 2009 Dear Friends, I write to you this personal note on the eve of a [non]-historic so- called Right to Education Bill, 2008 Bill being tabled in Lok Sabha. Through this Note, I would attempt to share with you my sense of deep anguish and concern for the future of our Republic in its sixtieth year. Although, this Note is limited to the issue of education as a Fundamental Right, the implications encompass all aspects and dimensions of our socio-economic life. Here is weblink to my article published in The Telegraph on 28th July 2009 (the original title of the article read as “The Bill That Denies Right to Education”):http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090728/jsp/opinion/story_11287996.jsp Tomorrow (i.e. 29 July 2009) the said Bill will be tabled in Lok Sabha, speeches made (“I rise to support the Bill but . . . . “) and passed expectedly by a unanimous vote after oral assurances (minus Constitutional guarantees) by the Minister of HRD that all will be well. This has been the history of this legislative process since 28th November 2001 when the 86th (then 93rd) Constitutional Amendment Bill was tabled in Lok Sabha, even as 40,000 people from several parts of India were holding a protest rally from Ramlila Grounds to Rajghat and back to Ramlila Grounds. Once this is done, we will wait for the President to sign the Bill. The Presidential assent will mark the full conversion of a Fundamental Right into an ordinary statutory right. Who said that? Believe it or not, this was stated by the HRD Minister Mr. Kapil Sibal in May 2002 in Rajya Sabha, of course then sitting in opposition as member of the Congress Party! Why did he say that? As an eminent judicial mind of the country, he knew that the Article 21A introduced by the 86th Amendment has the conditionality that free and compulsory education shall be provided “in such manner as the State may, by law, determine.” Such conditionality is not attached to any other Fundamental Right.. The State was determined to attach this conditionality in order to use it for enacting a law (now being tabled in Lok Sabha on 30th July 2009) whose central objective will be to legitimize all the dilution and distortion that the school education policy has undergone initially as part of World Bank’s DPEP in 1990s and later in SSA during the present decade. This was necessary in order to use the Constitution for putting a stamp of approval on the neo-liberal programme of privatization and commercialization of school education. Sibal’s 100-day agenda almost completes a critical phase of the neo-liberal agenda of which this Bill is an integral part. On 20th July 2009, when the present Bill was tabled in Rajya Sabha, several members inquired why the children below six years of ago have been kept out of their existing Fundamental Right to balanced nutrition, health support and pre-primary education. Ironically, the same Mr. Sibal who criticized Article 21A more than seven years ago in Rajya Sabha had no qualms in stating that “the [present] legislation is in the context of [Article] 21A and that is why we have not dealt with 0-5 years.” This is why I have been consistently maintaining since November 2001 that 86th Constitutional Amendment is a neo-liberal intervention in our Constitution and the consequential Right to Education Bill under Article 21A in Lok Sabha has to be viewed as a neo-liberal Bill. I wait for history to vindicate my stand. On 23rd July 2009, the All India Forum for Right to Education (AIF- RTE) organized a delegation to meet the Lok Sabha Speaker Ms. Meira Kumar (see attachment for the Memorandum with a detailed critique of the Bill). The delegation was led by Com. D. Raja, Natl. Secy of CPI and a Rajya Sabha member. Ms. Medha Patkar and Sh. Sandeep Pande joined the delegation and endorsed the AIF-RTE stand. We appealed to Ms. Meira Kumar to return the Bill to the Ministry’s Parliamentary Standing Committee (or a joint select committee) with directions to hold Public Hearings on the Bill around the country in a democratic and transparent manner. Why this demand at this late stage? To be sure, this demand is 4 years and 8 months old. Public Hearings on the Bill (as well as during its drafting process) have been demanded since CABE’s Kapil Sibal Committee began the process of drafting the present Bill in November 2004. However, not one Public Hearing has been held either by CABE or by the HRD Ministry – not even by the PM’s Office which sat over the various drafts – each one more diluted that the previous one – for almost 39 months from August 2005 onwards. Public Hearings were denied even by the Ministry’s Parliamentary Standing Committee which preferred to discuss the Bill with Ministry’s bureaucrats and official ‘educrats’ in closed chambers rather than with representatives of various education rights organizations or people’s movements, refusing to even accept submissions and Memoranda. Hence this demand to the Lok Sabha speaker. You may like to ask what happens to children’s Fundamental Right while the Public Hearings are held and the Bill amended or re-drafted on the basis of the public feedback. Would this not further delay the provision of the Fundamental Right which is about to be given after waiting for it for sixty years? NO, NOT ALL! This is so because the Fundamental Right to Education, without any conditionality whatsoever, is inherent in the Constitution, as declared by Supreme Court’s Unnikrishnan Judgment (1993). Various High Courts have been giving their judgments on education as a Fundamental Right under Unnikrishnan Judgment for the past several years. This Bill is designed only to dilute and distort the existing Fundamental Right. On 28th July, Shiksha Adhikar Manch, Bhopal organized a day-long peaceful dharna (with some members fasting) in front of Babasaheb Ambedkar’s statue in Bhopal and underlined three major violations of the Constitution by the Bill being tabled before Lok Sabha. In addition, the Manch urged upon the Lok Sabha members to “rise above their narrow party considerations, listen to the voice of their inner conscience and stand up against this anti-Constitutional, anti- education and anti-child Bill that denies Fundamental Right to almost 45 crore children up to 18 years of age.” This is critical for protecting the Constitution and saving our education system from further deterioration and neo-liberal assaults which this Bill is going to institutionalize (see attachment for Manch’ Press Release in Hindi). On the eve of this farcical and neo-liberal Bill being tabled in Lok Sabha, AIF-RTE invites all fellow citizens and like-minded people’s organizations to join us in building a powerful long-term movement to challenge Sibal’s agenda to sell our education system to corporate houses and the global capital and, in the process also build people’s consciousness about the Constitution’s vision of Right to Education. Before closing, let me add that while what is focused upon in this Note constitutes reflections on the neo-liberal assault on Fundamental Right to Education, such an assault is taking place simultaneously on all sectors of the nation’s life. Drawing lessons from our sectoral concerns, we must learn to build a common political agenda to effectively resist this wide-ranging and multi-dimensional attack endangering the future of India as a sovereign nation and its survival as a democratic, egalitarian and secular society. ZINDABAAD! Sincerely, Anil Sadgopal Attachments AIF-RTE Memorandum dated 23.07.2009 to Lok Sabha Speaker. Shiksha Adhikar Manch’ Press Release dated 28.07.2009 regarding the dilution of the Constitution by the Bill and our call to the Lok sabha members. From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 30 12:36:21 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:06:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Extinction Event: Anthropocene Era Message-ID: <4984222.1248937581917.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Fun for the whole family! Paul Human Activity Is Driving Earth's "Sixth Great Extinction Event" Tuesday 28 July 2009 by: Ian Sample http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/28/species-extinction-hotspots-australia Dead and Buried Cretaceous-Tertiary 65m years ago, the dinosaurs were wiped out in a mass extinction that killed nearly a fifth of land vertebrate families, 16% of marine families and nearly half of all marine animals. Thought to have been caused by asteroid impact that created Chicxulub crater in the Yucatan. End of Triassic About 200m years ago, lava floods erupting from the central Atlantic are thought to have created lethal global warming, killing off more than a fifth of all marine families and half of marine genera. Permian-Triassic The worst mass extinction took place 250m years ago, killing 95% of all species. Experts disagree on the cause. Late Devonian About 360m years ago, a fifth of marine families were wiped out, alongside more than half of all marine genera. Cause unknown. Ordovician-Silurian About 440m years ago, a quarter of all marine families were wiped out by fluctuating sea levels as glaciers formed and melted. Again. Population growth, pollution and invasive species are having a disastrous effect on species in the southern hemisphere, a major review by conservationists warns. Earth is experiencing its "sixth great extinction event" with disease and human activity taking a devastating toll on vulnerable species, according to a major review by conservationists. Much of the southern hemisphere is suffering particularly badly, and Australia, New Zealand and neighbouring Pacific islands may become the extinction hot spots of the world, the report warns. Ecosystems in Polynesia, Micronesia and Melanesia need urgent and effective conservation policies, or the region's already poor record on extinctions will worsen significantly. Researchers trawled 24,000 published reports to compile information on the native flora and fauna of Australasia and the Pacific islands, which have six of the most biodiverse regions on the planet. Their report identifies six causes driving species to extinction, almost all linked in some way to human activity. "Our region has the notorious distinction of having possibly the worst extinction record on Earth," said Richard Kingsford, an environmental scientist at the University of New South Wales in Sydney and lead author of the report. "We have an amazing natural environment, but so much of it is being destroyed before our eyes. Species are being threatened by habitat loss and degradation, invasive species, climate change, over-exploitation, pollution and wildlife disease." The review, published in the journal Conservation Biology, highlights destruction and degradation of ecosystems as the main threat. In Australia, agriculture has altered or destroyed half of all woodland and forests. Around 70% of the remaining forest has been damaged by logging. Loss of habitats is behind 80% of threatened species, the report claims. Invasive animals and plants have devastated native species on many Pacific islands. The Guam Micronesian kingfisher is thought to be extinct in the wild following the introduction of the brown tree snake. The impact of invasive species is often compounded by pollution and burgeoning human populations on the islands, which have outstripped their capacity to deal with waste. Plastics and fishing gear are an ongoing danger. The impact of humans on wildlife is likely to increase in Australasia and the Pacific islands. By 2050, the population of Australia is expected to have risen by 35%, and New Zealand by 25%, while Papua New Guinea faces a 76% increase and New Caledonia 49%. More than 2,500 invasive plant species have colonised Australia and New Zealand, competing for sunlight and nutrients. Many have been introduced by governments, horticulturists and hunters. In addition, the report says, average temperatures in Australia have increased, in line with climate change predictions, forcing some species towards Antarctica and others to higher, cooler ground. The report highlights several studies that point to serious threats from diseases such as avian malaria and the chytrid fungus, linked to declines in frog populations. An infectious facial cancer is spreading rapidly among Tasmanian devils and populations of the world's largest marsupial predator are believed to have fallen by more than 60% as a result. Plants have also fared badly: a root fungus deliberately introduced into Australia has destroyed several species. The report sets out a raft of recommendations to slow the decline by introducing laws to limit land clearing, logging and mining; restricting deliberate introduction of invasive species; reducing carbon emissions and pollution; and limiting fisheries. It raises particular concerns about bottom trawling, and the use of cyanide and dynamite, and calls for early-warning systems to pick up diseases in the wild. "The burden on the environment is going to get worse unless we are a lot smarter about reducing our footprint," said Kingsford. "Unless we get this right, future generations will surely be paying more in quality of life and the environment. And our region will continue its terrible reputation of leading the world in the extinction of plants and animals." From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 30 13:11:16 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:41:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Foucault on the Iranian Revolution Message-ID: <11957267.1248939676720.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> 1789, 1917, the Maoist Cultural Revolution, Che Guevara, the struggle against American imperialism, etc... Paul L’énigme du soulèvement Enigma of the Uprising; Foucault and Iran by: Olivier Roy Vacarme http://www.vacarme.org/article1366.html Issue 29; Fall 2004 Editor's Note: Although published in 2004, Middle East specialist Olivier Roy's analysis of French philosopher Michel Foucault's complex response to the Iranian revolution of 1979 has special piquancy and pertinence today in light of current events in Iran: "A flashback allows us to take the measure of the relevance of Foucault's analyses: the acuity of his perception applied to Iranian society, the attempt to seize in all its novelty, possibilities, and dangers, a rupture the imprint of which the contemporary world still bears." -ljt/TO/VAC When he commented in 1979 on the fall of the Shah, Foucault was not greeting the accession of a regime, but examining the phenomenon of a revolt. Against critics, who, from very far away, believed they were reading a blindness born of "68 thinking" in these texts, a flashback allows us to take the measure of the relevance of Foucault's analyses: the acuity of his perception applied to Iranian society, the attempt to seize in all its novelty, possibilities, and dangers, a rupture the imprint of which the contemporary world still bears. "The problem of Islam as a political force is an essential problem for our age and for the years to come. The first condition for tackling it with a modicum of intelligence is to begin without hatred." "Michel Foucault's response to an Iranian reader," Le Nouvel Observateur, number 731, 13-19 November 1978. Michel Foucault has been much reproached for his enthusiasm for the Iranian revolution and his description of a unanimous people, united behind the charismatic figure of Ayatollah Khomeini. When a philosopher who meditates on the operation of power leaves the world of archives to analyze a real movement, one may fear two things: that he should be looking for an illustration for his theses without concerning himself with the specificity of the phenomenon, or that he should be naively prisoner to the event, promoted to the status of the Second Coming of History, joining the ranks of the long list of those who convince themselves they've written the last book possible, the book about the End of History. Between the choices of crypto-Marxist and naive fellow traveler, Parisian salons have quite preferred the latter. [1] It's true that expressions such as "the uprising of an entire society," "a virtually unanimous clear will," or even "a perfectly unified collective will" raise some doubt: how could things be so simple? However, an attentive reading of Foucault's writings on the Iranian revolution - composed moreover in a journalistic framework (which is not neutral) - shows that we're really talking about unfounded perceptions. [2] Foucault doesn't enthuse over a new order that will be established following the revolution, but rather over the revolt itself, for itself, over the complete and generalized rejection of the power in place, as well as of its possible appendages and substitutions. Foucault is no naïf, no fellow traveler, no sycophant for utopian tomorrows. It's the event that interests him as a rupture with established order and not as an indicator of the meaning of history. Is Foucault's Iran imaginary? In spite of the brevity of his stays there, he grasped a great many things. Far from appeasement, his attitude highlights the profoundly nationalistic, even xenophobic character of the revolution (and of the population): he notes that among the foreigners the Iranians want to see leave, there are not only Americans, but also Afghan immigrant workers (p. 711). He knew perfectly well that Khomeini had a political program (even if he disputes it several pages later), and that social tensions existed, even though they were not the source of the revolution. He notes that for Iran, one must talk about Shi'ism before talking about Islam, that Shi'ism and not ethnicity is the foundation of the national identity and consequently of the legitimacy of all power. His remarks on the modernity of the Shah as a form of archaism to the extent it was imposed by brute force are very relevant: the Shah didn't understand a thing about social control (but perhaps that's why a revolution was possible, which leaves many fine days ahead for modern and subtle governments). What interested Foucault was not Iran, was not Islam, was not the mullahs, it was the experience, the experiment of an event: revolution. Political Revolution or Revolution Against Politics? To speak of revolution in 1978, was, of course, for all the readers of the time, to enroll oneself in either a Marxist or Hegelian philosophy of history, one that believes in a meaning to history and that assumes that a new order must emerge from a society's contradictions. One referred to 1789, 1917, the Maoist Cultural Revolution, Che Guevara, the struggle against American imperialism, etc. Now that's certainly the first misunderstanding. Foucault rejects any philosophy of history. What fascinated him about Iran was specifically that it was a religious revolution; he explicitly mentions Savonarola's Florence, Thomas Munzer's Anabaptists and Cromwell's Presbyterians (ibid., p. 686). He insists on two points that undermine any comparisons with the political revolutions of yesteryear: the unanimity of society (no civil war, no class struggle as the engine of the revolution), and the absence of ideology and political program which open the question of the regime to come ("It's because there's no program of government (...) that there can be a clear, stubborn, nearly unanimous will," p. 702). As far as Foucault was concerned, the revolution made sense in itself, as a rejection and refusal of power, of government, and not as the carrier of a new order, a new government, and a more just society. The intention ascribed to Foucault of complacency towards the Islamic regime makes no sense; still, one may wonder about his indifference towards the form of regime the revolution would give birth to. The first problematical point here is the notion of "unanimous society," of collective will. Foucault rejects any Marxist explanation for the revolution. He notes that all social classes were involved in the revolt and that no one was advancing economic or social demands. He mentions the regime's well-paid privileged few (Iran Air personnel, oil workers) whose demands were satisfied after the slightest strike, who nonetheless demanded the departure of the Shah before anything else. And when Claire Brière (an ex-Maoist journalist then covering Iran) launched him on a comparison with the Chinese Cultural Revolution, he ruled it out by pointing out that in China, it was a real civil war, while in Iran, it was a matter of a "strike against politics" conducted by a whole people. Social classes existed, but were not relevant. They all wanted the Shah to leave. The revolution was purely political, but against politics itself. So Foucault counters all sociological explanations for the Iranian Revolution, in this case, the famous alliance of the Mostazafin (the socially excluded), the bazaaris, progressive intellectuals and the clergy, provisionally united against an accelerated modernization that had thrown the Mostazafin into the cities, increased the number of bazaaris without offering them any future, and marginalized the progressive intellectuals and the clergy. That thesis, which one finds, for example, in the work of Saïd Arjomand or Gilles Kepel, doesn't work. [3] First of all, and Foucault is right about this; there was real unanimity in the revolt: everyone wanted the Shah to leave. [4] Moreover, those categories (Mostazafin, bazaari, clergy, intellectuals) are poorly defined in sociological terms and politically divided (the clergy were far from unanimous behind Khomeini to establish an Islamic state). A more in-depth study, for example, shows that the Mostazafin played hardly any role in the revolution. [5] There is a real limit to political sociology for explaining revolutionary phenomena; political philosophy reclaims its place. Unanimity, so be it, but Foucault isn't fooled by that unanimity: it exists in rejection only and not in the aspiration for another society. There was a unanimous will (in a highly diversified and very heterogeneous country) on one - negative - point: the Shah had to go, which Khomeini repeated by rejecting any political compromise from his exile in Neauphle-le-Château. Beyond that, a chasm divided the religious who were in a millenarian expectation of an Islamic society that would bring justice and happiness and the others who believed that the revolution's religious dimension was only for a time, was even a tactic, and that politics would reclaim its place as soon as the Shah was gone (these included secular liberals who wanted elections, as well as all the Marxists who thought there would be a second revolutionary stage after the Shah's departure). Foucault was not unaware of those debates: moreover, he despised the mullahs and denounced the new regime's exactions early on, but, in fact, the revolution's tomorrows barely interested him ("I don't know how to write the history of the future," p. 714). When he criticized the regime's aberrations later, he didn't feel he was contradicting himself because he had never written that an Islamic Republic was inevitable or desirable. And that's where the second problematic point arises. What is the point of a revolution if it doesn't give birth to a new society, whether that be a Utopia or a nightmare? It was solely the "enigma of the uprising&" (p. 792), and it alone, that was the focus of Foucault's interest. The "movement" (that's the term he uses) interested Foucault not because it would carry the future, but because it negated politics, because it deconstructed, ignored, rejected, undermined, invalidated, delegitimized government and power. The movement of revolt deprived the government of the discourse it maintained about itself, in which it boasted of representing the collective will: the movement properly depicted itself as the collective will. Even more, the revolution also broke the relays of power, the micro-powers, the chain that allows the government to irrigate society and impose itself other than by brute force. The revolt bared the government as raw power. That's why it was a "strike against politics." Foucault's problem was not such an ideology or such a political system, but power in itself. "In the expression 'Islamic government,' why immediately throw suspicion on the adjective 'Islamic?' The word 'government' suffices all by itself to arouse vigilance." (p. 781). The government is the fruit of a history; the uprising is timeless; it is the rupture in the chain of causalities and determinations; consequently, it is the product neither of a history nor of a class strategy. But in this sense, it can be phenomenon only. Foucault rehabilitates the event, the phenomenon, as freedom, a rupture with determinisms, a rupture with history. Incidentally, that may be a possible reason for his choice of the reportorial register, based on the primacy of the event, the phenomenon, usually so decried by intellectuals. It's because the uprising is timeless, contentless, and "negative" that it expresses freedom (in the Sartrian sense of freedom). Freedom with respect to the government, the powers-that-be, but also with respect to oneself, one's being in the world, one's class and one's history. A subjective and individual freedom that can only be in the moment, since politics will necessarily make its comeback, as we shall see. The people that rises up is like the criminal or the madman: it doesn't play the game; it reflects back to power the nakedness of its force alone. Here we rediscover subjects that fascinated Foucault, the madman and the criminal (p. 793), who are not harbingers of a new order (unlike the working class for Marxists), but who speak truth to power, or rather, who force power to expose itself as power. The Religious: Transcendence or the Return of Politics? That's why such a revolt may only be religious: more in form than in content. The content is dogma, as it was converted into a political ideology by the Islamists. But the form is rite. The ritual of the demonstration struck Foucault forcibly, as it did all those who covered the revolution: martyrdom, mourning, the repetition of mourning following the paradigm of Hussein's passion. Ritual is theater; the people direct themselves, remove themselves from sociological determinations. The people make themselves an actor, in the two meanings of the term, theatrical and political. The uprising does not take place in history's temporality, but in that of ritual, consequently, of repetition; ritual reflects a transcendence that the government cannot cut or reduce, but which puts the government back in its place, that is, highlights its limits, its finitude. The uprising liberates because it is possible at any moment. The uprising restores freedom to people, but also their tragic dime nsion, death and finitude, since there are neither better tomorrows nor future generations redeemed by the revolutionary gesture. Foucault goes so far as to say there will be no real revolution except on the condition that we "radically change our experience": "It is necessary that our way of being, our relationship to others, to things, to eternity, to God, etc., be completely changed" (p. 749), as though individual (not necessarily religious) conversion were the key to change in the world order. Fundamentally, there is no revolution but religious revolution, but not in the sense accepted up to now, that is, every revolution is religious because it is millennialist, because it wants to realize paradise on earth. In short, for Foucault, the Iranian revolution is no more an avatar of Marxism than the latter is an avatar of religious millennialism. The religious dimension also characterizes the charismatic leader. From his exile, Khomeini repeated an incantatory formula: "Chah bayad raft" [the Shah must go]. It is he, Khomeini, that is the movement's "cohesion point." The uniqueness comes from a "lieu," from a virtual point, from a pole that works because it is empty. One brings him love; he is sacred. For Foucault, Khomeini's connection with the people may be explained by three things: "Khomeini is not there (...) ; Khomeini says nothing (...) ; Khomeini is not a politician" (p. 716). Here one is reminded of Pierre Clastres' analyses in "Society Against the State": the leader is the virtual point where the image a primitive society has of itself focuses in the negation of political power. It's altogether a society against the state that Foucault describes. Of course, here Foucault is evoking the Khomeini myth, the function he played, but certainly not the personality he actually was. Khomeini's silence was political: h e sought to delegitimize not only the Shah, but all other alternatives to the Islamic state, which was certainly his objective. But it's not Khomeini's program that interested Foucault, because, as far as Foucault was concerned, that program didn't interest anyone. On the contrary, it was the absence of program that allowed unanimity. It was necessary that people think there was no program. "There will be no Khomeini Party; there will be no Khomeini government" (p. 716). Here's the rub. Of course there was no Khomeini party stricto sensu, and the Party of the Islamic Revolution, which, by the way, was quickly dissolved, was never the equivalent of a Communist Party. But Khomeini certainly was a political leader whose power was based on networks and groups the rivalries of which the Imam specifically exploited. He certainly had an idea of what an Islamic state should be. He certainly had an Islamist ideology. There were certainly power networks, micro-powers already in place within Iranian society and within the revolutionary movement itself. Foucault did not see it, first of all because he didn't have time to immerse himself in Khomeini's writings, then because the denial of any Islamist plan was broadly shared among Iranian actors, except for the Imam's intimates and networks. The misunderstanding was based on that denial: the debate over the Islamic state would certainly have divided the movement and it was necessary to make it disappear. But Khomeini was, in fact, a politician, as Foucault noted himself when he remarked that Khomeini's proposal to hold a referendum on the "Islamic government" put the opposition parties in an impossible position: get out of the game or endorse the Imam's (p. 703). In fact, what Foucault did not see is that Islamism, that is, a rereading of the religious in terms of a political ideology, reinserted the Iranian revolution in a broader revolutionary tradition and one that is, in fact, millennialist. [6] The mistake here is not one of naïveté: Foucault knew perfectly well that the revolution was but a moment and that politics would make a comeback, not as the realization (or betrayal) of the revolution's promises (which is the same thing, since one was in the same space-time dimension), but as the negation of the act of revolt, the peculiarity of which is not to create a new government or power, but to utterly expose all power. This act of revolt pertains to another space-time dimension than that of power. But if the revolution is "a strike against politics" (p. 703), one must obviously know how to end a strike. Consequently, the key question is "when and how will the will of everyone yield to politics; the question is to know whether it wants to and whether it must" (p. 704). But does this truly pertain to the order of will and requirement? The return to politics, that is, to the game of power, is inescapable, at least in the absence of this mysterious change in our relationship to ourselves, to others and to God, that Foucault mentions. Glorious or Inglorious Tomorrows One cannot escape the question "and afterwards?" in every sense of the term. We have seen Foucault had no interest in the political program and did not feel himself to have been refuted by the first fruits of a new dictatorship, since for Foucault the revolt is not responsible for the new post-revolutionary order. "There will come a moment when this phenomenon that we try to apprehend and that has so fascinated us - the revolutionary experience itself - will be extinguished. (...) There will be processes of another level, of another reality, in a way" (p. 750); in short, that no longer interests Michel Foucault. Once again, that is neither naïveté, nor complacency (he was to be one of the first to take up his pen to denounce the regime's aberrations), simply, it's all about the return of politics and the establishment of new forms of power. If the objective of the revolution is the eradication of politics, then all revolution is a failure. The meaning of the revolt is not the realization of a Utopia, but the striking down of illusion and the illusions of power. It is insofar as it demystifies power that the revolt makes sense, since it then allows an understanding of the mechanisms of power, but also its profound vacuity. The uprising is the void at the center of power; it's the finitude of power, always forced to renew itself, reinvent itself, and find intermediaries. The revolt is what allows people not to be duped, in the absence of an impossible institutionalization of freedom. It desacralizes power, all the more so when it claims its own share in the sacred. That's what explains the paradox that Foucault notes. In Iran, the uprising was uniquely political, since it obeyed no socioeconomic determination. But it was not embodied in a political party either. The opposition political parties (Tudeh, National Front) were overtaken. The incarnation of the revolt in a political form would be the end of the revolt. The essence of society is political; parties usurp the political field, but the genius of the Iranian revolution was to reject that illusion of alternation and political representation. Now the return of the political is inescapable and occurs from the very movement of revolt's internal power networks: there is no pure revolt. But the inheritance of the uprising was undoubtedly to make power and the government more fragile and people more clear-sighted. "The spirituality to which those who were about to die referred is incommensurate with the bloody government of a fundamentalist clergy" (p. 793). That undoubtedly explains both the despair of the Iranian martyrs in the war against Iraq - who knew that the regime was no longer equal to their ideals and died of it, [7] and the movement of reformers, composed of former radical actors of the Islamic revolution. Figures such as Ayatollah Montazeri, the Guide's dauphin, who publicly protested against the executions of prisoners and found himself under house arrest, an untouchable pariah, in the holy city of Qom (from whence he speaks and runs a seminary) are only possible in the framework of a religious revolution. In this sense indeed, the role that religion played in the uprising made the closing of the political field difficult, for despotism has trouble conjuring away the void that the sacred established at the center of power. And that was something Foucault had sensed. ------------------ [1] See, for example, Franz-Olivier Giesbert, "Cendrillon au pays des mille et un jours"["Cinderella in the Country of the Thousand and One Nights"], Le Point, 5 décembre 2003: "Obviously, there's a great deal to be said about the Shah's regime, but I would not be so cruel as to recall the stupid things written at the time by Michel Foucault and some of our best intellectuals on the Khomeini revolution, statements that, through their circumlocutions, seemed to give support to the Pontii Pilates of the moment whose names we will not mention out of compassion." [2] Michel Foucault's texts on Iran have been brought together in Dits et écrits, II, 1976-1988, Gallimard "Quarto," the pagination of which serves as the reference here. [3] Saïd Arjomand, "The Turban for the Crown," Oxford University Press, 1989; Gilles Kepel, "Jihad, Expansion et déclin de l'islamisme," Gallimard 2001. [4] I was in Iran for the summers of 1978 and 1979; the first time simply en route back from Afghanistan, the second time for a one-month visit from the Pakistani border in Kurdistan by way of Tehran. Speaking Persian, traveling by bus, staying at small hotels, I was able to measure both the massive rejection of the monarchy and all the ambivalences and expectations towards the revolution, fed by the calculated silence of the Imam in exile. [5] Asef Bayat, "Street Politics," Columbia University Press, 1997. [6] Olivier Roy, "L'échec de l'Islam politique," Le Seuil, 1991. [7] Farhad Khosrokhavar, "L'islamisme et la mort: Le martyre révolutionnaire en Iran," L'Harmattan, 1995. -------- Most notably, Olivier Roy has published "L'Islam Mondialisé" ["Globalized Islam"], Le Seuil 2002; "Iran: Comment sortir d'une révolution religieuse" [Iran: How to Emerge From a Religious Revolution"] (with Farhad Khosrokhavar), Le Seuil 1999. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 14:58:44 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:58:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907300227t54b3fd75v49dcb31246736fa5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907300227t54b3fd75v49dcb31246736fa5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907300228x461e0a3bx69e4eec1cb46ce1f@mail.gmail.com> Check out Shiva and Raghunath Temples of Mirpur [ POK ] in ruins . The pictures are available at www.thekashmir.wordpress.com http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/hindu-temples-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 30 16:51:14 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:21:14 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <5c5369880907290549i290a1638k2fe88cd263f53448@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290534v39408925ne2d9598683af66f7@mail.gmail.com> <5c5369880907290541s30fa67gfa8f5a26a6a38500@mail.gmail.com> <5c5369880907290549i290a1638k2fe88cd263f53448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907300421i5bc441dcj3fdc7b281aa82906@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sanjay Kak Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:49 PM Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision To: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Dear Taha Your many posts on the future of our digital identities has always drawn my silent admiration: for their alert doggedness, their range and their perspicacity. But this one on the truly fragile nature of our blood and skin (and foreskin) identities was a real jewel: I found myself laughing and in tears at the same time! Many thanks Sanjay Kak ps Cant seem to put this on the Sarai list for some reason? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision To: Pawan Durani Cc: Sarai Reader-list , Tapas Ray Dear Tapas, Dear Pawan and Dear All I think we just have to wait for a year before hopefully we will all have our UID numbers then perhaps rioters too will become more sophisticated. If these days RSS and VHP and BJP and SS goons go around an area carrying voter lists, as evidenced by systematic butchering of Mussalmaaans in Gujarat then later perhaps, they could be more precise by zoning in on fingerprints, area codes and what not. They might just ask for your thumb print and tally it on a machine before driving that sword down your throat. After all multi-purposes will have other benefits too. But to complicate the this argument let me tell you guys a real story. A cousin of mine from Ahmedabad once told his story of being a victim of riots. This happened during the Advani rath yatra time. He was traveling from Delhi to Ahmedabad that day. Just when he left the rail way station he realized that riots are happening in the city. There were no taxis or auto-rickshaws, so he started walking in the hope that he might come across some people be it Hindus or Muslims and they might give me a lift to his place.  He, by the way, didn't look 'Muslim' at all. He was clean shaven with urban looks and all. He could pass off as anyone. He was smart and suave and confident. By and by he crossed an area where came across a group of men who were hiding behind the entrance of a gully. They accosted him but he couldn't make out who they were either. For they were too, like him, clean shaven and without any visible mark of identification. So they asked him what his name was, so he said that his name was Ramesh, thinking that they were Hindus. Hearing this one of them drew a sword, 'Hindu hai sala'! They were Muslims. He thanked God and told them he was a brother like them too. They asked him to open his pants and show them his circumcision mark. Now here's the interesting bit because my cousin had never cared to go for a circumcision. He opened his pants, people saw his uncircumcised penis and thrust a sword in his belly with a nara-e-takbir accompanying the action. He let out a scream Ya Allah! That somehow made them realize that he was a Muslim. People do not wear any mask when they are in danger of their lives, it seems. They asked his name again and he told them that it was Arif. They took him to a hospital where the doctor initially refuse to treat him after getting to know that his name was Arif, it was only after examining his uncircumcised penis that the doctor was convinced that he was indeed Ramesh and treated him. What happened to Arif was unfortunate but it was also terribly funny too, in a way. The madness and social nervousness around identity was all apparent.  I think with the coming up of ID cards there must be systematic and equitable distribution of personal information amongst both Muslim and Hindu rioters. For it would be depressing to come across an Arif like case again. On the other hand I think as long as we in India are going to make a big fuss about who we are then there's definitely going to be someone who will be laughing all the way to a bank somewhere. Warm regards Taha _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 30 16:51:28 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:21:28 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290534v39408925ne2d9598683af66f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907300421i3a501befn6881d14ab64de7ba@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lalit Ambardar Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision To: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com, Pawan Durani Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" , tapasrayx at gmail.com Dear Taha, Your story about ‘Ramesh’ & ‘Arif’ makes a poignant reading. It is a tragedy that communal riots continue to haunt us. Let us hope & pray that there aren’t any anymore.  But it is also a fact that for every ‘Arif’ there have been ‘Rameshs’ too. And victims did not always undergo any circumcision test. You mentioned Gujarat. Well if the aftermath was so horrible so was the instigation –the burning of so many ‘Rameshs’ in the train at Godhra & mind it there was no penispection before the train was singed. And what do you have to say about the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in Kashmir? Remember there were no riots there- there was no instigation. Yet so many ‘Rameshs’ were selectively targeted & murdered in cold blood not with the daggers but with sophisticated arms like AK47s & pistols. The fear psychosis after hundreds were butchered lead to the surviving ‘Rameshs’ flee their homes & hearths. No, no voter lists were used for any identification purpose nor were any penispections carried out. The whole process of ethnic cleansing was so meticulously planned & executed. Identification tools do not necessarily matter. Regards LA Ps: will someone change the subject line, it is so misleading -if the original article was about just the 'sex' the following comments aren't about HIV either. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:34:21 +0100 > From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > To: pawan.durani at gmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net; tapasrayx at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision > > Dear Tapas, Dear Pawan and Dear All > > I think we just have to wait for a year before hopefully we will all > have our UID numbers then perhaps rioters too will become more > sophisticated. If these days RSS and VHP and BJP and SS goons go > around an area carrying voter lists, as evidenced by systematic > butchering of Mussalmaaans in Gujarat then later perhaps, they could > be more precise by zoning in on fingerprints, area codes and what not. > They might just ask for your thumb print and tally it on a machine > before driving that sword down your throat. After all multi-purposes > will have other benefits too. > > But to complicate the this argument let me tell you guys a real story. > > A cousin of mine from Ahmedabad once told his story of being a victim > of riots. This happened during the Advani rath yatra time. He was > traveling from Delhi to Ahmedabad that day. > > Just when he left the rail way station he realized that riots are > happening in the city. There were no taxis or auto-rickshaws, so he > started walking in the hope that he might come across some people be > it Hindus or Muslims and they might give me a lift to his place. He, > by the way, didn't look 'Muslim' at all. He was clean shaven with > urban looks and all. He could pass off as anyone. He was smart and > suave and confident. > > By and by he crossed an area where came across a group of men who were > hiding behind the entrance of a gully. > > They accosted him but he couldn't make out who they were either. For > they were too, like him, clean shaven and without any visible mark of > identification. So they asked him what his name was, so he said that > his name was Ramesh, thinking that they were Hindus. > > Hearing this one of them drew a sword, 'Hindu hai sala'! They were > Muslims. He thanked God and told them he was a brother like them too. > They asked him to open his pants and show them his circumcision mark. > Now here's the interesting bit because my cousin had never cared to go > for a circumcision. > > He opened his pants, people saw his uncircumcised penis and thrust a > sword in his belly with a nara-e-takbir accompanying the action. He > let out a scream Ya Allah! That somehow made them realize that he was > a Muslim. People do not wear any mask when they are in danger of their > lives, it seems. > > They asked his name again and he told them that it was Arif. They took > him to a hospital where the doctor initially refuse to treat him after > getting to know that his name was Arif, it was only after examining > his uncircumcised penis that the doctor was convinced that he was > indeed Ramesh and treated him. > > What happened to Arif was unfortunate but it was also terribly funny > too, in a way. The madness and social nervousness around identity was > all apparent. I think with the coming up of ID cards there must be > systematic and equitable distribution of personal information amongst > both Muslim and Hindu rioters. For it would be depressing to come > across an Arif like case again. On the other hand I think as long as > we in India are going to make a big fuss about who we are then there's > definitely going to be someone who will be laughing all the way to a > bank somewhere. > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Videos Get the latest video streams on movies, Try it! From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 30 17:02:00 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:02:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: HIV and male circumcision In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907300421i5bc441dcj3fdc7b281aa82906@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FA9EA.2010102@gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907282135j63bb5803rd692c8037f623ce7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290534v39408925ne2d9598683af66f7@mail.gmail.com> <5c5369880907290541s30fa67gfa8f5a26a6a38500@mail.gmail.com> <5c5369880907290549i290a1638k2fe88cd263f53448@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300421i5bc441dcj3fdc7b281aa82906@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <978FB95E-E588-4B88-AF60-B78DE8DBE98E@sarai.net> Dear Taha, Let me join Sanjay in appreciating your post on circumcision. It made me think of the many ways in which identities unravel, entangle and sometimes masquerade, sometimes play, sometimes just run away from every attempt at naming and classification - and this despite every attempt - (like the unique identification cards that you have been so diligently tracking on this list) to marshall them into neat rows and columns. Thinking about the confusions of identity and identification, leads me on to another tangent, and forgive me for rambling. Several of my friends who are Jews, have always confessed to being 'half Jewish', in the same sense as Ghalib was a 'half Muslim', (though they were all, fully, circumcised) in that, while they do not keep Kosher (the very strict Jewish dietary laws) and are by no means 'observant' jews, they still will not eat pork. They will be the first to say that their abstention makes no sense, it is just some strange whisper from some ancestors. So, maybe, if you put a half muslim and a half jew together in one room, you get a three quarters something else, one whole salami waiting to be eaten, and one quarter missing person? Again, it is a cultural thing, something that doesn't let go of you, whether or not you want to let go of it. Take for instance, the fact that, no matter how long ago some of my ancestors might have renounced their (in any case fragile) orthodox Hindu faith, if a book falls from my hands to the ground, I will still touch it to my forehead, because a book embodies 'Devi Saraswati' (the Hindu Goddess of learning), and one should never let the goddess of learning touch the dirt of the ground. and I have always known that this is what I must do if a book falls from my hands. Perhaps it is just a strange combination of an attitude of affection and respect for the printed word, which is probably the only remaining space that I can make in my life for the fragmented inheritance of an everyday sense of the sacred. Some might call this a residual 'Brahminism'. Maybe that is what it is. But what of it? Do the Portugese pirates, Santhal women, bandits and low caste Bengali weavers who probably occur in the lost, shadowy branches of my patrilineal and matrilineal family trees, along with the more publicly acknowledged teachers, priests and itinerant healers not tug at my self? And what of the wilder fringes of the same family trees where lurk Baghdadi Jews and Peshawari Sikhs (and believe me, this combination is not as uncommon in Bhadralok bengali family histories as might be thought of at first, so I guess it's mongrel contours can be mapped on to most ancestral narratives, mostly anywhere) Of course they do. They make me a seafarer, an occasional forager and a spinner of yarns, besides being a worshipful devotee of the alphabet. I bet they talk to each other and argue in the dreams I never remember. I bet if anyone looked far back enough into their ancestries, the waters would get interestingly muddy. Foreskins would rise and fall with greater ease than people might at first consider possible I honestly don't know what to make of this. But the uncertainty doesn't make me feel either uneasy or uncomfortable. I say this only to wonder, whether or not we all share this sense of being half, or quarter of something or the other - sometimes knowingly, sometimes unknowingly, sometimes barely consciously. I sometimes wonder what kind of conversations would occur if we all let our half and quarter selves talk to the half and quarter selves of other people. If fractions could discourse with fractions, what numbers might we dream up? Perhaps (if such conversations were to happen more regularly) people would be less certain about what makes them so different from 'other' people. If, in place of certainty, there could be a proliferation of active conversational doubts about the self, it would be a little more difficult to condemn other people as 'mlecch', 'kafir', 'infidel' or 'barbarian'. This doesnt mean that there would not be any violence or misunderstanding, just that the quality and direction of the violence, disagreement and misunderstanding would be different, perhaps radically so. I don't know if this makes any sense, but it does make me wonder, sometimes Cheers (from some misbegotten quarter of my self) Shuddha On 30-Jul-09, at 4:51 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sanjay Kak > Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:49 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision > To: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Dear Taha > Your many posts on the future of our digital identities has always > drawn my silent admiration: for their alert doggedness, their range > and their perspicacity. > But this one on the truly fragile nature of our blood and skin (and > foreskin) identities was a real jewel: I found myself laughing and in > tears at the same time! > Many thanks > Sanjay Kak > > ps Cant seem to put this on the Sarai list for some reason? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision > To: Pawan Durani > Cc: Sarai Reader-list , Tapas Ray > > > > Dear Tapas, Dear Pawan and Dear All > > I think we just have to wait for a year before hopefully we will all > have our UID numbers then perhaps rioters too will become more > sophisticated. If these days RSS and VHP and BJP and SS goons go > around an area carrying voter lists, as evidenced by systematic > butchering of Mussalmaaans in Gujarat then later perhaps, they could > be more precise by zoning in on fingerprints, area codes and what not. > They might just ask for your thumb print and tally it on a machine > before driving that sword down your throat. After all multi-purposes > will have other benefits too. > > But to complicate the this argument let me tell you guys a real story. > > A cousin of mine from Ahmedabad once told his story of being a victim > of riots. This happened during the Advani rath yatra time. He was > traveling from Delhi to Ahmedabad that day. > > Just when he left the rail way station he realized that riots are > happening in the city. There were no taxis or auto-rickshaws, so he > started walking in the hope that he might come across some people be > it Hindus or Muslims and they might give me a lift to his place. He, > by the way, didn't look 'Muslim' at all. He was clean shaven with > urban looks and all. He could pass off as anyone. He was smart and > suave and confident. > > By and by he crossed an area where came across a group of men who were > hiding behind the entrance of a gully. > > They accosted him but he couldn't make out who they were either. For > they were too, like him, clean shaven and without any visible mark of > identification. So they asked him what his name was, so he said that > his name was Ramesh, thinking that they were Hindus. > > Hearing this one of them drew a sword, 'Hindu hai sala'! They were > Muslims. He thanked God and told them he was a brother like them too. > They asked him to open his pants and show them his circumcision mark. > Now here's the interesting bit because my cousin had never cared to go > for a circumcision. > > He opened his pants, people saw his uncircumcised penis and thrust a > sword in his belly with a nara-e-takbir accompanying the action. He > let out a scream Ya Allah! That somehow made them realize that he was > a Muslim. People do not wear any mask when they are in danger of their > lives, it seems. > > They asked his name again and he told them that it was Arif. They took > him to a hospital where the doctor initially refuse to treat him after > getting to know that his name was Arif, it was only after examining > his uncircumcised penis that the doctor was convinced that he was > indeed Ramesh and treated him. > > What happened to Arif was unfortunate but it was also terribly funny > too, in a way. The madness and social nervousness around identity was > all apparent. I think with the coming up of ID cards there must be > systematic and equitable distribution of personal information amongst > both Muslim and Hindu rioters. For it would be depressing to come > across an Arif like case again. On the other hand I think as long as > we in India are going to make a big fuss about who we are then there's > definitely going to be someone who will be laughing all the way to a > bank somewhere. > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rana at ranadasgupta.com Thu Jul 30 17:40:54 2009 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:40:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A718DCE.2010809@ranadasgupta.com> Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of course, deeply relevant - and many more. In retrospect the "land" section could probably have had more bite. I did hope the Nanda incident, as well as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a sense of the impact - literal and figurative - between this emerging class of global capitalists and farmers and workers. On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying to categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the meaning of the word? Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society, and the India of that era had in place many of the features - eg centralised production - that characterise other nations that call themselves "socialist". The meaning that the word thus acquires is surely real...? Thanks again R Nagraj Adve wrote: > Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and > somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the > capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word but > I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in > this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the > realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do. > > Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that are > disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an > interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun > Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a > growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources. > > Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the > working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and > increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF makes > its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own > homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was > striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as > EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't > have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of > jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would > have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened > at the time. Or the decline in real wages. > > Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as > being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely > so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say > about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958. > > Thanks for the piece. > warmly, > Naga > > > On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* > wrote: > > Its a really good read! Highly recommended. > > Sudeshna > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta > >wrote: > > > My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, > from the > > current edition of Granta magazine. > > > > http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 > > > > Enjoy! > > > > R > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD > New Delhi, India > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." Rana Dasgupta www.ranadasgupta.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 30 17:49:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:19:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi Date: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:45 PM Subject: Re: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: Mail Delivery System Cc: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Dear Taha, forum likes your stories, my post is rejected, let me see if you have the courage to make sach ka samna.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Mail Delivery System wrote: > > This is the Postfix program at host mail.sarai.net. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > >                        The Postfix program > > (expanded from ): host >    127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1] said: 554 5.7.0 Reject, id=25885-03 - SPAM (in reply >    to end of DATA command) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; reader-list at mail.sarai.net > Original-Recipient: rfc822; reader-list at sarai.net > Action: failed > Status: 5.0.0 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; host 127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1] said: 554 5.7.0 Reject, >    id=25885-03 - SPAM (in reply to end of DATA command) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > To: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:11:48 +0530 > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: HIV and male circumcision > Dear Taha, >    this forum is not for telling "stories" but the moot point is why can the muslim not be part of nation and wish to flaunt their muslim ids which was not the case earlier, when they promised to live in secular India as brothers to all others in the nation.?Like any other individuals in the nation, they have their rights, but when they flaunt their minority status, being majority in any dwelling area, they clash to impose their values on society, thus become causes of friction, others in the society being "secular" have tolerated enough of this imposing the "muslim" values on all others, religious fanatics in all faiths got provoked thanks mainly to this attitude of some,few,  fanatic muslims who did not hesitate to defend, sheltor and provide logistical support to terror may be because of the faith of the religion, jannath promised, or lots wades of currency.? > > When any one attacks any one else for the faith being very "religious" all other individuals have the right of self defence and that is what is seen now in the nation as the Man Mohini Singh ( this character is honest female, bold as female voice booms in parliament yesterday, but weak as male, may be a transgender.!) is talking about first bite for muslims as nation does not agree with this appeasement doctrine, as all citizens in democracy have the same rights, none are special.! > > No doubt we have to recognise the rights of gays, lesbians and transgenders as they are also humans, and should be made CMs and MLAs and MPs of the legislation, as the leader man Mohini Singh has had no hesitation to show his/her transgender part in the parliament as he spoke and stood naked in front of the national parliament.! > > Regards, Rajen. > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Lalit Ambardar >> Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:22 PM >> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision >> To: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com, Pawan Durani >> Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" , tapasrayx at gmail.com >> >> >> Dear Taha, >> >> >> >> Your story about ‘Ramesh’ & ‘Arif’ makes a poignant reading. It is a >> tragedy that communal riots continue to haunt us. Let us hope & pray >> that there aren’t any anymore. >> >> >> >>  But it is also a fact that for every ‘Arif’ there have been ‘Rameshs’ >> too. And victims did not always undergo any circumcision test. You >> mentioned Gujarat. Well if the aftermath was so horrible so was the >> instigation –the burning of so many ‘Rameshs’ in the train at Godhra & >> mind it there was no penispection before the train was singed. >> >> >> >> And what do you have to say about the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri >> Hindu Pandits in Kashmir? Remember there were no riots there- there >> was no instigation. Yet so many ‘Rameshs’ were selectively targeted & >> murdered in cold blood not with the daggers but with sophisticated >> arms like AK47s & pistols. The fear psychosis after hundreds were >> butchered lead to the surviving ‘Rameshs’ flee their homes & hearths. >> No, no voter lists were used for any identification purpose nor were >> any penispections carried out. The whole process of ethnic cleansing >> was so meticulously planned & executed. >> >> Identification tools do not necessarily matter. >> >> Regards >> >> LA >> >> Ps: will someone change the subject line, it is so misleading -if the >> original article was about just the 'sex' the following comments >> aren't about HIV either. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:34:21 +0100 >> > From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com >> > To: pawan.durani at gmail.com >> > CC: reader-list at sarai.net; tapasrayx at gmail.com >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision >> > >> > Dear Tapas, Dear Pawan and Dear All >> > >> > I think we just have to wait for a year before hopefully we will all >> > have our UID numbers then perhaps rioters too will become more >> > sophisticated. If these days RSS and VHP and BJP and SS goons go >> > around an area carrying voter lists, as evidenced by systematic >> > butchering of Mussalmaaans in Gujarat then later perhaps, they could >> > be more precise by zoning in on fingerprints, area codes and what not. >> > They might just ask for your thumb print and tally it on a machine >> > before driving that sword down your throat. After all multi-purposes >> > will have other benefits too. >> > >> > But to complicate the this argument let me tell you guys a real story. >> > >> > A cousin of mine from Ahmedabad once told his story of being a victim >> > of riots. This happened during the Advani rath yatra time. He was >> > traveling from Delhi to Ahmedabad that day. >> > >> > Just when he left the rail way station he realized that riots are >> > happening in the city. There were no taxis or auto-rickshaws, so he >> > started walking in the hope that he might come across some people be >> > it Hindus or Muslims and they might give me a lift to his place. He, >> > by the way, didn't look 'Muslim' at all. He was clean shaven with >> > urban looks and all. He could pass off as anyone. He was smart and >> > suave and confident. >> > >> > By and by he crossed an area where came across a group of men who were >> > hiding behind the entrance of a gully. >> > >> > They accosted him but he couldn't make out who they were either. For >> > they were too, like him, clean shaven and without any visible mark of >> > identification. So they asked him what his name was, so he said that >> > his name was Ramesh, thinking that they were Hindus. >> > >> > Hearing this one of them drew a sword, 'Hindu hai sala'! They were >> > Muslims. He thanked God and told them he was a brother like them too. >> > They asked him to open his pants and show them his circumcision mark. >> > Now here's the interesting bit because my cousin had never cared to go >> > for a circumcision. >> > >> > He opened his pants, people saw his uncircumcised penis and thrust a >> > sword in his belly with a nara-e-takbir accompanying the action. He >> > let out a scream Ya Allah! That somehow made them realize that he was >> > a Muslim. People do not wear any mask when they are in danger of their >> > lives, it seems. >> > >> > They asked his name again and he told them that it was Arif. They took >> > him to a hospital where the doctor initially refuse to treat him after >> > getting to know that his name was Arif, it was only after examining >> > his uncircumcised penis that the doctor was convinced that he was >> > indeed Ramesh and treated him. >> > >> > What happened to Arif was unfortunate but it was also terribly funny >> > too, in a way. The madness and social nervousness around identity was >> > all apparent. I think with the coming up of ID cards there must be >> > systematic and equitable distribution of personal information amongst >> > both Muslim and Hindu rioters. For it would be depressing to come >> > across an Arif like case again. On the other hand I think as long as >> > we in India are going to make a big fuss about who we are then there's >> > definitely going to be someone who will be laughing all the way to a >> > bank somewhere. >> > >> > Warm regards >> > >> > Taha >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> ________________________________ >> Videos Get the latest video streams on movies, Try it! >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. From gora at sarai.net Thu Jul 30 18:01:46 2009 From: gora at sarai.net (Gora Mohanty) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:01:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090730180146.65c80f9c@mail.sarai.net> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:19:52 +0100 Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > Date: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > To: Mail Delivery System > Cc: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > > Dear Taha, forum likes your stories, my post is rejected, let me > see if you have the courage to make sach ka samna.? [...] I am not sure why people automatically jump to conclusions that there is some ulterior motive behind their post being rejected. From what I could see, the post is somehow being tagged as spam, but it is hard to tell for sure without complete headers. Is the email address used by Rajendra Bhat subscribed to the list? Rajendra, if you could send me a copy of the rejection response off-list, as an attachment with complete headers, I would be glad to forward it to the people managing the list. Let us get this resolved. Alternatively, send me the post, and I will forward it to the list. Regards, Gora From rana at ranadasgupta.com Thu Jul 30 18:10:08 2009 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:10:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> Dear Taha Don't write off MC so fast. As you will have noticed from the article his fortunes have ceased to be tied to north Indian real estate. The money made in the real estate boom era is being reinvested far away. These people are not idiots and they have access to market intelligence that most people cannot dream of. I direct you, moreover, to your own posting - "Netas and babus can outsmart smart cards" - in which Swaminathan Aiyar expressed doubt that NN would be able to implement his plan because it meant dislodging a vast, determined system of schemes and interests. It is not certain that Nilekani will become the reigning supremo. R Taha Mehmood wrote: > Dear Rana, > > Your piece opens up a lot of avenues for thought, however there was > one bit which particularly caught my interest. > > You wrote- > > In truth, however, the anglicised class to which Azim Premji and > Nandan Nilekani belong is becoming marginalised from Indian society. > Immense upheavals are afoot, and English-speaking sophisticates now > speak about themselves as harried and besieged. They still enjoy many > privileges, but as time goes on they see their values and > sensibilities disappearing from the media and the streets, and they > are faced with the troubling realisation that they no longer rule this > society or dominate its imagination � or even understand the first > thing about it. - > > > > Could you please elaborate more on this, because seen from the > perspective of the ID card story, Nandan Nilekani and his friends, his > 'anglicised' friends seem to have scored a point. It appears they are > shifting the rules of the game. The land economy has gone bust. The IT > has gone bust. > > The next big story in India after big dams, after global back office, > after land and after education economy in all likelihood seems to be > the knowledge processing industry and chip manufacturing industry and > distribution and data maintenance industry driven by the idea of ID > cards. And Delhi will have a new role, new players, and new lingo, I > suppose. > > By saying -gone bust-, my suggestion is towards the scale of intended > and expected investment in these sectors as opposed to investment in > ID. > > And I think Delhi is slowly shifting towards that direction. Where are > your MCs of this game, people who knows everyone for over two > generations? You have got a new man in Delhi, Sir! who knew no one > twenty years ago and now he is thinking of making every bloody Indian > known to him in the next one year. > > Maybe land is not going to figure prominently in Capital Gains any > more maybe it will be over sized libido of men hawking ID's ;) > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > -- "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." Rana Dasgupta www.ranadasgupta.com From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Jul 30 18:20:46 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:20:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E847D13-68E1-4D3E-B322-FAE77B92A664@sarai.net> dear Rajen, Nobody stopped your post. Please read the technical ground on which the post was blocked. It is in the automated message sent to you by mailman. It will help to understand the technology that you are using to communicate with others. warmly jeebesh On 30-Jul-09, at 5:49 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > Date: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > To: Mail Delivery System > Cc: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > > Dear Taha, forum likes your stories, my post is rejected, let me see > if you have the courage to make sach ka samna.? > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Mail Delivery System > wrote: >> >> This is the Postfix program at host mail.sarai.net. >> >> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not >> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. >> >> For further assistance, please send mail to >> >> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can >> delete your own text from the attached returned message. >> >> The Postfix program >> >> (expanded from > list at sarai.net>): host >> 127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1] said: 554 5.7.0 Reject, id=25885-03 - SPAM >> (in reply >> to end of DATA command) >> >> Final-Recipient: rfc822; reader-list at mail.sarai.net >> Original-Recipient: rfc822; reader-list at sarai.net >> Action: failed >> Status: 5.0.0 >> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; host 127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1] said: 554 >> 5.7.0 Reject, >> id=25885-03 - SPAM (in reply to end of DATA command) >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi >> To: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:11:48 +0530 >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: HIV and male circumcision >> Dear Taha, >> this forum is not for telling "stories" but the moot point is >> why can the muslim not be part of nation and wish to flaunt their >> muslim ids which was not the case earlier, when they promised to >> live in secular India as brothers to all others in the nation.?Like >> any other individuals in the nation, they have their rights, but >> when they flaunt their minority status, being majority in any >> dwelling area, they clash to impose their values on society, thus >> become causes of friction, others in the society being "secular" >> have tolerated enough of this imposing the "muslim" values on all >> others, religious fanatics in all faiths got provoked thanks mainly >> to this attitude of some,few, fanatic muslims who did not hesitate >> to defend, sheltor and provide logistical support to terror may be >> because of the faith of the religion, jannath promised, or lots >> wades of currency.? >> >> When any one attacks any one else for the faith being very >> "religious" all other individuals have the right of self defence >> and that is what is seen now in the nation as the Man Mohini Singh >> ( this character is honest female, bold as female voice booms in >> parliament yesterday, but weak as male, may be a transgender.!) is >> talking about first bite for muslims as nation does not agree with >> this appeasement doctrine, as all citizens in democracy have the >> same rights, none are special.! >> >> No doubt we have to recognise the rights of gays, lesbians and >> transgenders as they are also humans, and should be made CMs and >> MLAs and MPs of the legislation, as the leader man Mohini Singh has >> had no hesitation to show his/her transgender part in the >> parliament as he spoke and stood naked in front of the national >> parliament.! >> >> Regards, Rajen. >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com >> > wrote: >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Lalit Ambardar >>> Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:22 PM >>> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision >>> To: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com, Pawan Durani >> > >>> Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" , tapasrayx at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> Dear Taha, >>> >>> >>> >>> Your story about ‘Ramesh’ & ‘Arif’ makes a poignant reading. It is a >>> tragedy that communal riots continue to haunt us. Let us hope & pray >>> that there aren’t any anymore. >>> >>> >>> >>> But it is also a fact that for every ‘Arif’ there have been >>> ‘Rameshs’ >>> too. And victims did not always undergo any circumcision test. You >>> mentioned Gujarat. Well if the aftermath was so horrible so was the >>> instigation –the burning of so many ‘Rameshs’ in the train at >>> Godhra & >>> mind it there was no penispection before the train was singed. >>> >>> >>> >>> And what do you have to say about the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri >>> Hindu Pandits in Kashmir? Remember there were no riots there- there >>> was no instigation. Yet so many ‘Rameshs’ were selectively >>> targeted & >>> murdered in cold blood not with the daggers but with sophisticated >>> arms like AK47s & pistols. The fear psychosis after hundreds were >>> butchered lead to the surviving ‘Rameshs’ flee their homes & >>> hearths. >>> No, no voter lists were used for any identification purpose nor were >>> any penispections carried out. The whole process of ethnic cleansing >>> was so meticulously planned & executed. >>> >>> Identification tools do not necessarily matter. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> LA >>> >>> Ps: will someone change the subject line, it is so misleading -if >>> the >>> original article was about just the 'sex' the following comments >>> aren't about HIV either. >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:34:21 +0100 >>>> From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com >>>> To: pawan.durani at gmail.com >>>> CC: reader-list at sarai.net; tapasrayx at gmail.com >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HIV and male circumcision >>>> >>>> Dear Tapas, Dear Pawan and Dear All >>>> >>>> I think we just have to wait for a year before hopefully we will >>>> all >>>> have our UID numbers then perhaps rioters too will become more >>>> sophisticated. If these days RSS and VHP and BJP and SS goons go >>>> around an area carrying voter lists, as evidenced by systematic >>>> butchering of Mussalmaaans in Gujarat then later perhaps, they >>>> could >>>> be more precise by zoning in on fingerprints, area codes and what >>>> not. >>>> They might just ask for your thumb print and tally it on a machine >>>> before driving that sword down your throat. After all multi- >>>> purposes >>>> will have other benefits too. >>>> >>>> But to complicate the this argument let me tell you guys a real >>>> story. >>>> >>>> A cousin of mine from Ahmedabad once told his story of being a >>>> victim >>>> of riots. This happened during the Advani rath yatra time. He was >>>> traveling from Delhi to Ahmedabad that day. >>>> >>>> Just when he left the rail way station he realized that riots are >>>> happening in the city. There were no taxis or auto-rickshaws, so he >>>> started walking in the hope that he might come across some people >>>> be >>>> it Hindus or Muslims and they might give me a lift to his place. >>>> He, >>>> by the way, didn't look 'Muslim' at all. He was clean shaven with >>>> urban looks and all. He could pass off as anyone. He was smart and >>>> suave and confident. >>>> >>>> By and by he crossed an area where came across a group of men who >>>> were >>>> hiding behind the entrance of a gully. >>>> >>>> They accosted him but he couldn't make out who they were either. >>>> For >>>> they were too, like him, clean shaven and without any visible >>>> mark of >>>> identification. So they asked him what his name was, so he said >>>> that >>>> his name was Ramesh, thinking that they were Hindus. >>>> >>>> Hearing this one of them drew a sword, 'Hindu hai sala'! They were >>>> Muslims. He thanked God and told them he was a brother like them >>>> too. >>>> They asked him to open his pants and show them his circumcision >>>> mark. >>>> Now here's the interesting bit because my cousin had never cared >>>> to go >>>> for a circumcision. >>>> >>>> He opened his pants, people saw his uncircumcised penis and >>>> thrust a >>>> sword in his belly with a nara-e-takbir accompanying the action. He >>>> let out a scream Ya Allah! That somehow made them realize that he >>>> was >>>> a Muslim. People do not wear any mask when they are in danger of >>>> their >>>> lives, it seems. >>>> >>>> They asked his name again and he told them that it was Arif. They >>>> took >>>> him to a hospital where the doctor initially refuse to treat him >>>> after >>>> getting to know that his name was Arif, it was only after examining >>>> his uncircumcised penis that the doctor was convinced that he was >>>> indeed Ramesh and treated him. >>>> >>>> What happened to Arif was unfortunate but it was also terribly >>>> funny >>>> too, in a way. The madness and social nervousness around identity >>>> was >>>> all apparent. I think with the coming up of ID cards there must be >>>> systematic and equitable distribution of personal information >>>> amongst >>>> both Muslim and Hindu rioters. For it would be depressing to come >>>> across an Arif like case again. On the other hand I think as long >>>> as >>>> we in India are going to make a big fuss about who we are then >>>> there's >>>> definitely going to be someone who will be laughing all the way >>>> to a >>>> bank somewhere. >>>> >>>> Warm regards >>>> >>>> Taha >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> Videos Get the latest video streams on movies, Try it! >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> -- >> Rajen. >> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Jul 30 18:15:22 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:15:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <4A718DCE.2010809@ranadasgupta.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com> <4A718DCE.2010809@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <1CCDDA48-3D24-4128-8A09-431915B2B710@sarai.net> Dear Rana, (and Naga) Thanks for the discussion. Just a note of caution, in which I would agree with Naga's comments on your usage of the term 'Socialist' which I think mars an otherwise very well argued and etched out piece. Various political figures, ranging from Mussolini, to Hitler, to Nye Bevan, to Stalin, to Pilsudski, to Indira Gandhi, to Atal Behari Vajpayee, to Chiang Kai Shek and Idi Amin described (at some time or the other, or throughout their political careers) their politics as 'socialist' and their parties/movements as 'Socialist'. Others, such as The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way of some sharp irony. It is true, that Nehru (and some of his other colleagues) did propose the goal of moving 'towards Socialism' to the Congress Party. And the word 'Socialist' was inserted into the Indian constitution during the darkest days of the Emergency as a fig leaf to cover the reality of repression. But the policies adopted by Nehru's government, and his immediate successors, (right up to Indira Gandhi) even if we were to consider the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do not), were arguably less far-reaching than even the policies followed by the post war Labour government in the UK. No one, as far as I know, describes the United Kingdom under Clement Atlee as a 'Socialist' society. It would be difficult to reconcile the depth of the British class system's bite in the 1950s with any thing even remotely approximating 'Socialism'. One of the founding documents of the British Labour Party - the resolution adopted by the Labour Representation Committee of 1905 (moved by W. Atkinson of the Paperstainers Union, and seconded by Will Thorne, of the Gasworkers Union, which stayed on the Labour Party's books until its quiet, and embarrassed removal, in the 80s) commits the emergent Labour Party to the goal of 'This annual conference of the LRC hereby declares that its ultimate object shall be the obtaining for the workers of the full results of their labour by the overthrow of the present competitive system of capitalism and the institution of a system of public ownership of all the means of production, distribution and exchange.' Despite this, it would be hard to call the Liberal-Labour Governments of Ramsay Macdonald, or of Bevan and Atlee, right on to the 'New Labour' of Tony Blair or Gordon Brown - as anything even remotely resembling Socialism. And yet, Post War Britain, had more extensive measures taken for state control of key industries than India ever had. If that be the case, how could we (by the same yardstick) describe India as 'Socialist'. Is it just that we are (or have become) more accustomed to identify Capitalism with affluence, and hence, the seemingly 'affluent' reality of the UK seems more persuasively 'Capitalist' than other realities, elsewhere, such as in India. Hence, newspaper editors in the Indian English Press routinely call the state-capitalist measures taken by Nehru and Indira Gandhi, 'Socialist'. I can forgive Indian English Newspaper editors, because they (by and large) tend to be ill-educated and foolish, but I expect better from you. Finally, is it at all necessary to ascribe to nation states, qualifiers that are more appropriate when speaking of social formations? A nation state is not a social formation. Those who thought so, and tried to carry their thought into practice, ended up leaving us with two of the twentieth century's greatest tragedies - 'Socialism in One Country' (Stalinism) and 'National Socialism' (Nazism). I think that the current loose way in which the term 'socialist' is bandied about in the media, and in fulsome political rhetoric, both here, as well as elsewhere, might have, unconcsiously seeped into your writing in this article. I think that for a person of your acuity, it would be best to be on guard, in the future. an eager reader of your writing, Shuddha On 30-Jul-09, at 5:40 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: > Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of > course, deeply relevant - and many more. In retrospect the "land" > section could probably have had more bite. I did hope the Nanda > incident, as well as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a > sense > of the impact - literal and figurative - between this emerging > class of > global capitalists and farmers and workers. > > On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying > to categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the > meaning > of the word? Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society, > and the India of that era had in place many of the features - eg > centralised production - that characterise other nations that call > themselves "socialist". The meaning that the word thus acquires is > surely real...? > > Thanks again > > R > > > > Nagraj Adve wrote: >> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and >> somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the >> capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word >> but >> I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in >> this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the >> realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do. >> >> Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that >> are >> disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an >> interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun >> Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a >> growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources. >> >> Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the >> working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and >> increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF >> makes >> its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own >> homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was >> striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as >> EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't >> have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of >> jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would >> have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened >> at the time. Or the decline in real wages. >> >> Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as >> being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely >> so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say >> about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958. >> >> Thanks for the piece. >> warmly, >> Naga >> >> >> On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* > > wrote: >> >> Its a really good read! Highly recommended. >> >> Sudeshna >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta >> >wrote: >> >>> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, >> from the >>> current edition of Granta magazine. >>> >>> http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 >>> >>> Enjoy! >>> >>> R >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD >> New Delhi, India >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the >> subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- >> list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > > -- > "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." > > Rana Dasgupta > www.ranadasgupta.com > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 18:41:36 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:41:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: <20090730180146.65c80f9c@mail.sarai.net> References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> <20090730180146.65c80f9c@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: What I find particularly surprising and appalling in the mails sent, is the reference to our PM as 'Manmohini Singh'. The reference to him as being 'weak male' and a possible 'transgender', is also bringing to light the truth of a certain section of males in the society. The problem I have with such a description is that by stating that the PM is a 'weak male', it has been assumed that males are always strong. What's more, indirectly it seems to have been stated that females are weak. The notion of masculinity being stronger than femininity seems to come out of such a description of our PM. This is against the very basis of equality of men and women, which is a part and parcel of our Indian Constitution, and which we are supposed to adhere to, not only as Indians, but also as human beings. Hence, if Rajen jee or anybody means that masculinity is stronger than femininity, I believe such statements are an inkling of the constant fear of their masculinity being scrutinized, which makes males behave in a manner to prove that they are 'males indeed'. And in the 21st century, if this is a problem, it is certainly despicable, and somewhere our society and all of us deserve the blame for that. Equally, the trans-genders have been looked down upon, when Manmohan is referred to as a 'trans-gender'. Aren't trans-genders human beings after all? Again the Indian Constitution doesn't allow us to look down upon other human beings. Neither do human rights, or values which we as rational beings must adhere to. Then what's the problem even if Manmohan is a transgender. This reminds me of another statement which was made in the documentary 'Father, Son & Holy War' (documentary made by Mr. Anand Patwardhan) by someone : 'Agar Rao (Narsimha Rao, then the PM of India) ko Babri masjid banana hai to use keh do sadi aur haathon mein chudiyan pehen le. (If Rao feels that Babri Masjid should be reconstructed, then he should wear bangles and sari).' What's the use of stating that 'trans-genders, gays and lesbians are also humans', when you will still look down upon them? Is that behavior acceptable even to you? I am not defending Manmohan Singh at all in this kind of discussion. According to me, Manmohan is an ineffective PM, as was Vajpayee. While Vajpayee slept over Kandahar, Godhra and its aftermath, and also during investigations of the Parliament attack, Manmohan has to his credit most of the negative things surrounding the UPA govt. His govt. has been involved in a Rs. 2,500 crore scam (unearthed recently and published in Outlook). The CAG constantly has indicted the previous UPA govt time and again for many wasteful expenditures in the past and even now (Even the Garib Rath is a total failure, going by the CAG report, because the 'garibs' who were to use the train, are not using it at all). Defence dept. may be sitting on the top of another huge scam since Bofors, the telecom dept. has been under the cloud ever since A. Raja was the minister, the consumer-price inflation has been touching the sky for the past 3 years (it is 8% for almost the entire year going by the CPI figures), handling of terrorism was a failure, and most of all, the NREGA was mostly running ineffectively. Even the much-touted handling of the Railways, under the previous Railway Minister, Shree Lalu Prasad, is now under the scanner, but ironically, even during his field days as a minister, the CAG was constantly criticizing his moves. Even the credible achievements of the UPA govt can be attributed either to the organizations fighting on the ground (for bringing issues to notice), Left or to Sonia Gandhi (for thinking they are important and introducing such legislations in Parliament). The PM's achievements were handling problems in the Ambani family, mingling with the corporate sector, and involving himself in a vote which brought about another shameful day in the Parliament (if you remember the trust vote his govt faced in 2008). And of course, now he is back with the UID in his second term. Manmohan is certainly a weak PM (or strong depending on which side you are), but so of course were many. And what's more, problems won't be solved if we make Dara Singh the PM of India (whom I believe Rajen jee would consider to be a strong enough male). It's in making the administration responsive and humane that the govt. would work. And that's what we should strive towards. And more importantly, all of us should learn the meaning of equality and be careful before making such statements. It's a request from me. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 18:44:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:44:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> <20090730180146.65c80f9c@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > What I find particularly surprising and appalling in the mails sent, is the > reference to our PM as 'Manmohini Singh'. The reference to him as being > 'weak male' and a possible 'transgender', is also bringing to light the > truth of a certain section of males in the society. > > The problem I have with such a description is that by stating that the PM > is a 'weak male', it has been assumed that males are always strong. What's > more, indirectly it seems to have been stated that females are weak. The > notion of masculinity being stronger than femininity seems to come out of > such a description of our PM. This is against the very basis of equality of > men and women, which is a part and parcel of our Indian Constitution, and > which we are supposed to adhere to, not only as Indians, but also as human > beings. > > Hence, if Rajen jee or anybody means that masculinity is stronger than > femininity, I believe such statements are an inkling of the constant fear of > their masculinity being scrutinized, which makes males behave in a manner to > prove that they are 'males indeed'. And in the 21st century, if this is a > problem, it is certainly despicable, and somewhere our society and all of us > deserve the blame for that. > > Equally, the trans-genders have been looked down upon, when Manmohan is > referred to as a 'trans-gender'. Aren't trans-genders human beings after > all? Again the Indian Constitution doesn't allow us to look down upon other > human beings. Neither do human rights, or values which we as rational beings > must adhere to. Then what's the problem even if Manmohan is a transgender. > > This reminds me of another statement which was made in the documentary > 'Father, Son & Holy War' (documentary made by Mr. Anand Patwardhan) by > someone : 'Agar Rao (Narsimha Rao, then the PM of India) ko Babri masjid > banana hai to use keh do sadi aur haathon mein chudiyan pehen le. (If Rao > feels that Babri Masjid should be reconstructed, then he should wear bangles > and sari).' > > What's the use of stating that 'trans-genders, gays and lesbians are also > humans', when you will still look down upon them? Is that behavior > acceptable even to you? > > I am not defending Manmohan Singh at all in this kind of discussion. > According to me, Manmohan is an ineffective PM, as was Vajpayee. While > Vajpayee slept over Kandahar, Godhra and its aftermath, and also during > investigations of the Parliament attack, Manmohan has to his credit most of > the negative things surrounding the UPA govt. > > His govt. has been involved in a Rs. 2,500 crore scam (unearthed recently > and published in Outlook). The CAG constantly has indicted the previous UPA > govt time and again for many wasteful expenditures in the past and even now > (Even the Garib Rath is a total failure, going by the CAG report, because > the 'garibs' who were to use the train, are not using it at all). Defence > dept. may be sitting on the top of another huge scam since Bofors, the > telecom dept. has been under the cloud ever since A. Raja was the minister, > the consumer-price inflation has been touching the sky for the past 3 years > (it is 8% for almost the entire year going by the CPI figures), handling of > terrorism was a failure, and most of all, the NREGA was mostly running > ineffectively. Even the much-touted handling of the Railways, under the > previous Railway Minister, Shree Lalu Prasad, is now under the scanner, but > ironically, even during his field days as a minister, the CAG was constantly > criticizing his moves. > > Even the credible achievements of the UPA govt can be attributed either to > the organizations fighting on the ground (for bringing issues to notice), > Left or to Sonia Gandhi (for thinking they are important and introducing > such legislations in Parliament). The PM's achievements were handling > problems in the Ambani family, mingling with the corporate sector, and > involving himself in a vote which brought about another shameful day in the > Parliament (if you remember the trust vote his govt faced in 2008). And of > course, now he is back with the UID in his second term. > > Manmohan is certainly a weak PM (or strong depending on which side you > are), but so of course were many. And what's more, problems won't be solved > if we make Dara Singh the PM of India (whom I believe Rajen jee would > consider to be a strong enough male). It's in making the administration > responsive and humane that the govt. would work. And that's what we should > strive towards. > > And more importantly, all of us should learn the meaning of equality and be > careful before making such statements. It's a request from me. > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 30 18:57:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:27:19 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] India needs to define smartcard standards- 174 In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907300452r24d76ff1ga7925a63f63d6100@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907290709y2e061229sf4eb46782f79d121@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907300452r24d76ff1ga7925a63f63d6100@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907300627p10557854p938a2ee8d48852a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, If you would have noticed closely, you would have seen that those green glasses have red frames but the glass holder is white. I love brown embossed outlines too. The point being as, Shuddha's text must have spoken something unto you, it is all a nice khichidi . Good to know that you are coming from a black hole, I'd like to think a bit more before arriving at a conclusion. I am sure you don't mind me being wanting some more time to think. Thank you for reading my posts on ID cards and the project. It was a pleasure to write. Regards Taha from Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi to Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> date Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:52 PM subject Re: [Reader-list] India needs to define smartcard standards- 174 mailed-by gmail.com signed-by gmail.com hide details 12:52 PM (1 hour ago) Reply Follow up message Dear Taha, we all know where we come from, universal black hole.! I was following with interest your posts about id and the project, but alas, you have shown your typical green glasses.! Regards, Rajen. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:01:13 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:31:13 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Tipaimukh Dam Must be Scrapped Message-ID: The Citizens Concern for Dams and Development (CCDD), Committee on Land and Natural Resources (COLNAR), Action Committee Against Tipaimukh Dam (ACTIP) Press Release 30 July 2009, Northeast TIPAIMUKH DAM MUST BE SCRAPPED The Citizens Concern for Dams and Development (CCDD), Committee on Land and Natural Resources (COLNAR), Action Committee Against Tipaimukh Dam (ACTIP) would like to express our reaffirmation that the Tipaimukh Dam should not be constructed without the free prior and informed consent of the indigenous peoples of all affected peoples in Manipur, Mizoram, Assam and further down in Bangladesh along the Barak River. CCDD, COLNAR and ACTIP would also like to express our condemnation to the environmental clearance accorded by the Ministry of Environment and Forest of the Government of India in end 2008 despite affected peoples vehement opposition to the public hearings on the proposed dam and also to the construction of Tipaimukh dam. The clearance despite the absence of a holistic and detailed impact assessment with due rightful participation of affected peoples construes disrespect to the indigenous peoples call for respect of peoples’ rights over their land and resources. The Tipaimukh dam to be built over Barak River, an international river, is now resisted from not all sides, upstream and downstream and the only supporter remains the government of India and the state of Manipur. The continuing and ongoing resistance against Tipaimukh dam, including the mass anti-dam mobilization in Bangladesh and the recent resolution against the dam in the Barak valley in Assam resolutely demands abandonment of the dam. Only a despot or a dictatorial government will continue with forceful implementation in defiance to peoples call for respect of their rights and justice. CCDD, COLNAR and ACTIP will continue to fight against forceful damming of Barak river, we will defend against forceful dislocation of our peoples, resist any attempt to disregard and sacrilege our culture, economy and identity. In the past we have made it clear that our land and environment is crucial for the survival of civilizations that has grown with the river. Whether in the downstream or upstream, lives of all forms, the ecosystem, the economy, culture that has evolved with this river are critically going to be affected by this huge dam. Any form of compensation, compensatory forestation or other ‘benefits’ cannot replace what has evolved over generations. We are also keenly aware that this dam has already caused conflicts and misunderstandings between upstream and downstream, between India and Bangladesh, between communities and to an extent fracture within communities. The government is to be squarely blamed for these consequences. Issues of downstream impact of dams are well known. Completely ignoring such impacts and overlooking those who live in the downstream of Barak river has now catapulted. As the people of Bangladesh, the communities living downstream of this imposed dam have every right to demand scrapping of this dam. Similar to the treatment to upstream communities, it is clear that the government and the dam authorities have complete disrespect of the rights and dignity of those who live downstream. The dam if built will stand to represent an example of a repressive development. The Government of Manipur appreciably in the past have twice passed in the Assembly resolving that they will not allow the dam. But undemocratic processes that rules Manipur have led to the signing of MOU with NEEPCO, and now with NHPC without explaining to the people what these MOUs are, how they have passed and how they have changed their position since Assembly resolution in 1995 and 1997.  We urge the government to change its course on this dam. On the visit of the Parliamentary Committee from Bangladesh, we definitely welcome them as representative of our neighbor if they are to come seeking to know more about the dam. However, we would respectfully urge them to desist from any unilateral agreement with India. By agreeing to this dam, impacts on the downstream in Bangladesh or in Assam nor in Manipur or Mizoram will go. We will continue to work with our friends living in downstream to stop this dam from coming up. Finally, it is made known here that we will line up a series of events if this dam is not being scrapped immediately. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:13:54 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:13:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release In-Reply-To: References: <785756.23397.qm@web94712.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907280452k4b705825g1f70cd664e08f24d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907300643s7a3e2b40x9b7a4aa6834e3490@mail.gmail.com> You had inadvertently stumbled upon the cause and effect, where in if something is to change for the better, the system has to change, as change is the only thing which is constant. as a similie, a business today cannot be run as done during the stone age, which used to be a barter system. The system in the business environment changes constantly considering the current trends, competition and all other factors to mke the business successful. Regards, V Murali On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Zainab Bawa wrote: > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Murali V wrote: > > > > Nothing can be done, until there is a marked change in the hardline > > religious fanacitcs attitude. > > Nothing can be done, until there is a change in this kind of a hard > line cynical attitude which believes that all change will happen only > when the system changes. At least take a small step instead of giving > your opinion as if it were a final pronouncement! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Murali V > > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM, kabi cubby sherman >wrote: > > > > > please circulate widely. > > > > > > kabi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > > From: Kamayani > > > Sent: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009 1:04:33 PM > > > Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Urgent Action for Shadi Sadr's Release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Greetings! > > > > > > > > > > > >The Association for > > > > Women's Rights in Development (AWID), an > international > > > > feminist membership organization with individual > and > > > > institutional members in 165 countries around the > > > world, is > > > > gravely concerned by the violent arrest of our > > > colleague > > > > Shadi Sadr on the morning of Friday July 17th > 2009. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >A lawyer and prominent women's rights activist, Shadi > > > > Sadr was stopped on a busy Tehran street, beaten > and > > > dragged > > > > off in a car by plainclothes agents who produced > no > > > > identification or warrant. No reason has yet been > > > provided > > > > for her detention. Her lawyer has not been allowed > to > > > > communicate with her, and efforts to post bail for > her > > > have > > > > so far been unsuccessful. > > > > > > > >Shadi Sadr is the founder > > > > of Zanan-e-Iran (Women in Iran), the first website > > > > highlighting the work of women's rights activists > in > > > the > > > > country, and the former director of the Raahi > Legal > > > Centre > > > > for women, which was shut down by Iranian > authorities > > > in > > > > 2007. She is also a key member of Meydaan (Women's > > > Field), > > > > the Stop Stoning Forever Campaign, and the One > Million > > > > Signatures Campaign, and has been actively > involved in > > > > women's rights networks including Women Living > under > > > Muslim > > > > Laws and AWID. > > > > > > > >Our concern over the unlawful > > > > abduction of Shadi Sadr is compounded by fears for > her > > > > health, as she suffers from a serious glandular > and > > > bone > > > > condition that requires prescription medication, > and > > > for > > > > which she is due to undergo surgery in the coming > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > > >Shadi Sadr's clients are also being negatively > > > > impacted by the situation.. The illegal detention > has > > > caused > > > > her to miss the court date of one client who is > > > potentially > > > > facing the death penalty. > > > > > > > >Recognizing the central > > > > role of women's human rights defenders in the > building > > > and > > > > strengthening of democracy around the world, AWID > > > believes > > > > that all States must ensure that their rights are > > > protected.. > > > > > > > > > > > >We call upon AWID's members and allies to take > > > > action and mobilize your networks in solidarity > and > > > support > > > > of Shadi Sadr and all those whose peaceful and > > > non-violent > > > > dissent has rendered them subject to unjust > > > persecution in > > > > Iran. > > > > > > > >Please contact local and international media, > > > > and write to policy makers and the Iranian mission > in > > > your > > > > country, as well as the Iranian authorities and > the > > > Iranian > > > > Bar. You can also write to the UN Secretary > General > > > Ban > > > > Ki-moon and High Commissioner for Human Rights > > > Navanethem > > > > Pillay, and urge them to take action to protect > basic > > > human > > > > rights in Iran. > > > > > > > >Your letter can: > > > > > > > > * Call for the unconditional and immediate release of > > > > Shadi Sadr, as she is a prisoner of conscience, > held > > > > solely for her human rights activities and the > > > peaceful > > > > exercise of her rights to freedom of expression; > > > > > > > > * Ensure that she is allowed immediate access to her > > > > family, lawyer of her choice, and any medical > > > treatment > > > > she may require, especially as she has a > reported > > > > pre-existing medical condition; > > > > > > > > * Urge the Iranian authorities to ensure that Shadi Sadr > > > > and all other detainees are protected from all > forms > > > of > > > > torture or ill treatment; and > > > > > > > > * Call on the authorities to remove unlawful > > > > restrictions on freedoms of expression, > association > > > and > > > > assembly in Iran and put an end to the > repression of > > > > demonstrations against the current Iranian > > > government and > > > > their stance on the recent > elections..RECIPIENTS' > > > > LIST: > > > > > > > >The Honorable Ban Ki-moon > > > >Secretary > > > > General > > > >760 United Nations Plaza > > > >United Nations > > > >New > > > > York, NY 10017 > > > >Web contact: http://www.un.org/en/contactus/contactform.asp > > > > > > > >Ms. > > > > Navanethem Pillay > > > >UN High Commissioner for Human > > > > Rights > > > >Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > > > > Human Rights (OHCHR) > > > >Palais des Nations > > > >CH-1211 Geneva > > > > 10, Switzerland > > > >Email: infodesk at ohchr.org > > > >Fax: > > > > +41 22 917 9008 or +1 212 963 4097 > > > >Tel: +41 22 917 > > > > 9000 > > > > > > > >Ms. Margaret Sekaggya > > > >Special Rapporteur on > > > > the Situation of Human Rights Defenders > > > >E-mail: urgent-action at ohchr.org > > > >The text of the > > > > e-mail should refer to the human rights defenders > > > > mandate. > > > >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 (Geneva, > > > > Switzerland) > > > >Tel: +41 22 917 1234 > > > >This is the number > > > > for the United Nations telephone operator in > Geneva, > > > > Switzerland. Callers should ask to speak with > staff at > > > the > > > > Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for > > > Human > > > > Rights dealing with the special procedures of the > > > Human > > > > Rights, and specifically with staff supporting the > > > mandate > > > > of the Special Rapporteur on human rights > defenders. > > > Please > > > > see here for further details about filing > complaints > > > to the > > > > Special Rapporteur: > > > http://www2.ohchr.org/english/issues/defenders/complaints.htm > > > > > > > >Working > > > > Group on Arbitrary Detention > > > >c/o Office of the UN High > > > > Commissioner for Human Rights > > > >United Nations Office at > > > > Geneva > > > >CH-1211, Geneva 10 > > > >Switzerland > > > >Fax: +41 22 > > > > 917 9006 > > > >See model questionnaire here: > > > http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs26.htm#A5 > > > > > > > >The > > > > Special Rapporteur on Violence against > > > > Women > > > >OHCHR-UNOG > > > >8-14 Avenue de la Paix > > > >CH-1211, > > > > Geneva 10 > > > >Switzerland > > > >Fax: +41 22 917 9006 > > > >E-mail: > > > > urgent-action at ohchr.org > > > >Leader of the > > > > Islamic Republic > > > >Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei > > > >The > > > > Office of the Supreme Leader > > > >Islamic Republic Street, end > > > > of Shahid Keshvar Doust Street > > > >Tehran, Islamic Republic > > > > of Iran > > > >Email: via website: http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/index.php?p=letter> > > > (English) > > > >or http://www.leader.ir/langs/fa/index.php?p=letter > > > > (Persian) > > > >Salutation: Your Excellency > > > > > > > >Head of the > > > > Judiciary > > > >Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi > > > >Howzeh > > > > Riyasat-e-Qoveh Qazaiyeh (Office of the Head of > the > > > > Judiciary) > > > >Pasteur St., Vali Asr Ave., south of > > > > Serah-e-Jomhouri > > > >Tehran 1316814737, Islamic Republic of > > > > Iran > > > >Email: shahroudi at dadgostary-tehran.ir > > > >This > > > > e-mail address is being protected from spambots.. > You > > > need > > > > Java Script enabled to view it (In the subject > line > > > write: > > > > FAO Ayatollah Shahroudi) > > > >Salutation: Your > > > > Excellency > > > > > > > >And copies to: > > > > > > > >Iranian Bar > > > > Association > > > >No. 3, Zagros St., Argentina Sq. > > > >Tehran, > > > > Islamic Republic of Iran > > > >Fax: +98 21 8771340 or +98 21 > > > > 888 6425 / 26 > > > >Email: tamas at iranbar.org > > > >This e-mail address > > > > is being protected from spambots. You need Java > Script > > > > enabled to view it or mail at iranbar.org > > > > > > > >And the Iranian > > > > embassy in your country (NB: recommend telephoning > and > > > > faxing before letter-writing) > > > >http://www.embassiesabroad.com/embassies-of/Iran > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards > > > > > > > >AWID > > > > > > > > > > > >See statement on > > > > AWID's web > > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This email was sent to rodighar at wlink.com.np by contact at awid.org. > > > >Update Profile/Email Address | > > > > Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. > > > Email Marketing by > > > >AWID | 215 Spadina Ave Suite 150 > > > > | Toronto | Ontario | M5T 2C7 | > > > > Canada > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber to the cedaw4change > > > discussion group. > > > > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > > > > cedaw4change-unsubscribe at list.iwraw-ap.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, including changing > > > your subscription mode and options, please visit: > > > > > > http://list.iwraw-ap.org/lists/info/cedaw4change > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ....... This list powered by http://NPOGroups.org: ........... > > > ... Group communications and list service for nonprofits .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > I carry a torch in one hand > > > And a bucket of water in the other: > > > With these things I am going to set fire to Heaven > > > And put out the flames of Hell > > > So that voyagers to God can rip the veils > > > And see the real goal................... > > > .By Rabia (Rabi'a Al-'Adawiyya) > > > > > > Adv Kamayani Bali Mahabal > > > Mobile-00919820749204 > > > skype:lawyercumactivist > > > > > > www.binayaksen.net > > > www.phm-india.org > > > www.phmovement.org > > > www.ifhhro.org > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Citizen-Mumbai" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en > > > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > > > > > > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and > > > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Zainab Bawa > Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher > > Gaining Ground ... > http://zainab.freecrow.org > > > http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:18:47 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:18:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is responsible..??... In-Reply-To: References: <19ba050f0907240053u73dcd47fj4f331d9fdf639f9e@mail.gmail.com> <2ec0b0550907270303r298ce847if8f14d4f172d467f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907300648p2c1590e4j61b5a9919592a115@mail.gmail.com> Well said sir. When there is a carnage carried out by terroists and militants, it is named fight self-detrermination, and if those that perpetrate such heinous crimes are gunned down, they are considered martyrs and some human rights activists come fighting for their cause, claiming injustice. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > No dear, you are guessing it all wrong. Protectors if guilty deserve > exemplary punishment. > > But aren’t killings committed in the name of ‘jihad’ & ‘azadi’ unjust? > > And should those Kashmiris who self admittedly got trained in Pakistan & > ferried weapons from there & unleashed the culture of violence in the valley > that continues to bleed Kashmir, not be tried for crimes against humanity? > > Should those who are responsible for ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu > Pandits allowed to masquerade as politicians & even peaceniks now? > > Regards all > LA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:33:47 +0530 > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Brutalisation of Kashmiri society-who is > responsible..??... Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in Kashmir) > From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com > To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Hi! > > Aren't we kind of missing the point here. No death is less important but > yes, some deaths ARE less unjust. When criminals kill, it is a heinous > crime. But when protectors kill, it is a travesty of justice. And whether > you like it or not, there is a difference between the two. > > Meera > > On 7/27/09, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > Blame it on those who founded the 'gun culture' in the valley at the behest > of their Pakistani masters.Today, Kashmir that had almost 'zero' crime rate > till the onset of pan Islamism inspired terrorism in 1989-90, has become > synonymous with 'death' & 'destruction'. It is a pity that the protagnists > of the macabre 'death & destruction' drama in Kashmir enjoy a fan following > on this forum too & that brutalisation of Kashmiri society has been allowed > in the name of jihad for 'so called azadi'....???... > > Regards all > > LA > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:18:53 +0530 > > From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com > > To: yousufism at gmail.com; rashneek at gmail.com > > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > Kashmir) > > > > If indeed the murder of the 3 year-old boy and his father had been by > > surrendered militants as some suspect Shopian would have been rocked by > > protests. A number of young women have also been mysteriously killed in > the > > last few months. A man was recently murdered, found with a hundred rupee > > note stuffed into his mouth. None of these merited protests. > > > > Strange how some deaths are more important than others in Kashmir. > > > > > > > From: M Yousuf > > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:23:33 +0530 > > > To: rashneek kher > > > Cc: reader-list > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Press Release of KPSS(Pandits still based in > > > Kashmir) > > > > > > It also has a message for KPSS that issued the below pasted statement > > > after > > almost a month to Shopian double rape and murder incident. the > > > promptness > > now is remarkable and appreciable compared to the studied statement > > > issued > > about Shopian incident. one wonders... would there be a judicial probe > > > to > > find out if the brutal militants, who killed the 3-year-old boy, were > > > from > > some surrendered lot, as some in Shopian suspect. and it would be > > > advisable > > for media and those who issue statements with such speed to go and > > > seek Syed > > Ali Shah Geelani's views on the brutal Keller killings from hospital > > > jail > > where he is lodged under PSA and is allowed to see mainstream > > > pro-India > > politicians. > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH SAMITI > > Sathu Barbar Shah, > > > Srinagar - 190001 > > email: kpss.kashmir at gmail.com > > > > Dated : 29.06.2009 > > > > PRESS > > > RELEASE > > > > SHOPIAN TRAGEDY IS UNFATHOMABLE ; KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > > SAMITI > > SAYS THE ACT WARRANTS SEVEREST PUNISHMENT OF CULPRITS > > > > > > > > Srinagar, 29 > > > June 2009: An emergency meeting of the executive council > > of Kashmiri Pandit > > > SangarashSamiti held today.- The participants at > > the meeting deliberated on > > > events surrounding the gang rape and murder > > of two young women in > > > Shopian. > > Kashmiri Pandit SANGARASH samiti condemned the dastardly and > > > inhuman > > act allegedly committed by members of the police force who > > > are > > supposed to protect the life and honor of citizens. The KPSS members > > were > > > visibly emotional while discussing the the act of horror by the > > Kashmir police > > > officials as has been found in the enquiry. > > > > The KPSS also condemns the > > > initial cover-up by local administrative > > officials in Shopian that led to an > > > incorrect initial assessment of > > the situation by the Chief Minister. Similarly > > > the initial press > > briefing by the Divisional Commissioner and the IGP, Kashmir > > > Range, > > was misleading. The SAMITI has expressed shock over the transfer of > > the > > > SP, Shopian, to another district as a promotion. We expect all > > these acts of > > > ommission and cover-up will be fully examined and > > condemned by the Justice Jan > > > Commission. > > > > KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARASH SAMITI hails residents of Shopian for > > > their > > determination to seek truth and justice in this matter. > > > > KPSS further > > > stated that the state government has not carried out full > > inquiries into other > > > previous similar cases like Kunan Poshpora, Hilar > > Bahi, etc. where it is still > > > unclear if various criminal acts were > > committed by security personnel or > > > militants. The SAMITI recalls the > > failure of State authorities in > > > investigating the horrific acts of > > rape and brutal murders of the Braroo > > > family (Shri Sohan Lal, Shrimati > > Bimla, and daughter, Archana) by militants in > > > 1994 in their house at > > Nai Sarak, Srinagar, when the mother and daughter were > > > raped in front > > of the husband and then the entire family was wiped out. That > > > case was > > all the more disturbing as every body in the vicinity of the > > > Braroo > > home knew the culprit but police still did not act. > > > > The KPSS is > > > critical of both mainstream and separatist political > > parties for politicizing > > > some acts of criminality, violence, and human > > rights abuses while conveniently > > > ignoring other similar cases that too > > require attention and justice. The > > > Samiti stated that the latest > > shameful incident has once again put the honor > > > of all Kashmiri women - > > without cast, creed or religion - at stake as > > > authorities and leaders > > of the civil society, who are supposed to protect and > > > defend the > > dignity and honor have been maligning it themselves. We believe > > > no > > Kashmiri woman is now safe until and unless the State acts tough > > against > > > perpetrators of Shopian rapes and murders, and all such > > horrific acts in the > > > recent past be it in the hands of security forces > > or by militants. > > > > The > > > credibility of the State government is at stake. The KPSS demands > > that > > > following completion of the Judaical inquiry, justice must be > > served > > > immediately and forcefully. The culprits deserve no leniency > > and all guilty > > > personnel must be prosecuted in accordance with the law > > and receive the > > > harshest punishment under the category of the ³rarest > > of rare cases.² > > > > The > > > Kashmiri Pandit Sangarash Samiti will support all the pro-people > > programs by > > > responsible leadership of Kashmir to register the protest > > and compel the state > > > government to take stern action against culprits > > irrespective of their stature > > > in the society or official rank. The > > SAMITI has called upon all Kashmiri > > > citizens that include > > professionals, businessmen, employees of state & central > > > government > > organizations, and students to wear ³BLACK CLOTH ON THEIR ARMS² > > > until > > the guilty are identified and charged. Similarly, > > > shopkeepers, > > transporters and other public institutions should hoist small > > > black > > flags until the justice is done. > > > > KPSS strongly believes that rapist and > > > killers can never be the > > masters and protectors of any civilized > > > society. > > > > KPSS appeals the state govt. to convene meeting of all section > > > of > > society to defuse un rest in the valley at the earliest. > > > > Sanjay K > > > .Tickoo > > President, KPSS > > +91 9906564741 > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, > > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > *It has a message for separtists > > > but more importantly for their bleeding > > > heart sympathesizers,some of them > > > are here too....* > > > > > > Request to Journalist fraternity of the Community to > > > carry this release in > > > their papers. > > > > > > > > > *KASHMIRI PANDIT SANGARSH > > > SAMITI* > > > Sathu Barbar Shah, Srinagar, Kashmir - 190001 > > > email: > > > kpss.kashmir@ > > > gmail.com< > > > > > > http://us.mc511.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpss.kashmir at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > *Dated: 24.07.2009* > > > > > > *Press Release* > > > > > > > > > > > > *(Separatists silence over > > > Keller Pulwama is regrettable)* > > > > > > > > > > > > In recent months killings > > > of some members of Kashmiri Society > > > erupted violence all over the Valley and > > > was supported by the Separatists > > > organization, through every such act on > > > Kashmiri Society is condemnable. > > > But > > > the way the Separatists Leadership > > > keeps silence over the atrocities done > > > by > > > the militants who obviously > > > belongs to a particular religion in deplorable. > > > > > > There is no > > > ³Hartals² no ³Demonstrations² over the killings of > > > two persons at Keller, > > > Shopian especially three years old boy, it shows > > > that > > > the Separatist > > > Organizations are biased and have no courage to condemn this > > > kind of act by > > > the militants. > > > > > > Here, we wish to draw attention of the World > > > Communities that > > > these Separatists Organizations kept silence in the early > > > militancy period > > > when there was onslaught on Kashmiri Pandit Community on > > > the name of being > > > the agents of GOI and propaganda was launched throughout > > > the world by them > > > that the exodus of Kashmiri Pandit Community was master > > > minded by then > > > Governor of the State to cover their mistakes. > > > > > > > > > On 31st of March, 2009 when KPSS hold ³Mandir Photo Exhibition - > > > cum - > > > Seminar² in which we had invited all the fractions of Hurriyat were > > > we > > > categorically told them before the Media and invited intellectuals and > > > > > > dignified audience ­ unless and until the Separatists Leaders will not > come > > > > > > openly to condemn the atrocities by the militants or by their own > cadres on > > > > > > the over all Kashmiri Society in last twenty years, their credibility > will > > > > > > remain biased and don¹t expect that the world is going to listen to > them > > > > > > sympathetically. > > > > > > Further, we invite the kind attention of > > > European Diplomats and > > > Foreign Dignitaries, who are morally bound to solve > > > the dispute between the > > > two nations and have access to Separatist > > > Organizations to take a serious > > > note of silence maintained by these Kashmiri > > > Leaders over the innocent > > > killings of the Kashmiri Society in the past and > > > in present. > > > > > > KPSS is shortly shooting letters to all Foreign > > > Diplomats along > > > with organizations of Islamic Countries to draw their kind > > > and valuable > > > attention over the Silence maintained by the Separatist > > > Leadership on such > > > acts done by the militants or by their own cadres. > > > > > > > > > It is also regrettable the Civil Societies in and outside the > > > Kashmir who > > > are always on fore front to condemn such acts by the State > > > Force(s) but > > > least to bother to condemn the same actions done by their > > > sympathizers. > > > > > > > > > We appeal the State Government to strengthen the Security in the > > > present > > > scenario in the Valley particularly the Regional Religious Minority > > > Pockets > > > so avoid any kind of un-toward incident in near future by > > > un-scrupulous > > > elements and enemies of humanity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sanjay K. Tickoo* > > > > > > > > > *President* > > > > > > *+91-9906564741* > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rashneek Kher > > > > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send > > > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > ___________________________ > > > ______________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > > To > > > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List > > > archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share your memories online with anyone you want. > > http://www.microsoft.com/india/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > -- > Meera > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay updated! Add Facebook, LinkedIn, MySpace & Hi5 friends to your > Windows Live network instantly. Add Now! > http://profile.live.com/webactivities/?mkt=en-in > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:21:14 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:21:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> <20090730180146.65c80f9c@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <7271ec560907300651q6bcd41fajee9c1f2b04e9004d@mail.gmail.com> COME ON NOW, RAKESH JEE, WE ALL RESPECT THE TRANSGENDER persons, without whom the marriages do not happen as they sing for married couple to be happier, a child born is blessed by them, so also all the epics of all the faiths have the transgender in them in important roles, Man Mohini Singh is also important in India with the female voice, he looks smart in blue turban, but is very string to sale of national interests to his headmaster uncle Sam.Being woman is respectable as transgender, but this manmohini is neither here nor there with his flip flops. ! Even Ardhanarishwara has many damaging facts to tell as lust for personal glories takes over societal interests and national interests. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > What I find particularly surprising and appalling in the mails sent, is > the > > reference to our PM as 'Manmohini Singh'. The reference to him as being > > 'weak male' and a possible 'transgender', is also bringing to light the > > truth of a certain section of males in the society. > > > > The problem I have with such a description is that by stating that the PM > > is a 'weak male', it has been assumed that males are always strong. > What's > > more, indirectly it seems to have been stated that females are weak. The > > notion of masculinity being stronger than femininity seems to come out of > > such a description of our PM. This is against the very basis of equality > of > > men and women, which is a part and parcel of our Indian Constitution, and > > which we are supposed to adhere to, not only as Indians, but also as > human > > beings. > > > > Hence, if Rajen jee or anybody means that masculinity is stronger than > > femininity, I believe such statements are an inkling of the constant fear > of > > their masculinity being scrutinized, which makes males behave in a manner > to > > prove that they are 'males indeed'. And in the 21st century, if this is a > > problem, it is certainly despicable, and somewhere our society and all of > us > > deserve the blame for that. > > > > Equally, the trans-genders have been looked down upon, when Manmohan is > > referred to as a 'trans-gender'. Aren't trans-genders human beings after > > all? Again the Indian Constitution doesn't allow us to look down upon > other > > human beings. Neither do human rights, or values which we as rational > beings > > must adhere to. Then what's the problem even if Manmohan is a > transgender. > > > > This reminds me of another statement which was made in the documentary > > 'Father, Son & Holy War' (documentary made by Mr. Anand Patwardhan) by > > someone : 'Agar Rao (Narsimha Rao, then the PM of India) ko Babri masjid > > banana hai to use keh do sadi aur haathon mein chudiyan pehen le. (If Rao > > feels that Babri Masjid should be reconstructed, then he should wear > bangles > > and sari).' > > > > What's the use of stating that 'trans-genders, gays and lesbians are also > > humans', when you will still look down upon them? Is that behavior > > acceptable even to you? > > > > I am not defending Manmohan Singh at all in this kind of discussion. > > According to me, Manmohan is an ineffective PM, as was Vajpayee. While > > Vajpayee slept over Kandahar, Godhra and its aftermath, and also during > > investigations of the Parliament attack, Manmohan has to his credit most > of > > the negative things surrounding the UPA govt. > > > > His govt. has been involved in a Rs. 2,500 crore scam (unearthed recently > > and published in Outlook). The CAG constantly has indicted the previous > UPA > > govt time and again for many wasteful expenditures in the past and even > now > > (Even the Garib Rath is a total failure, going by the CAG report, because > > the 'garibs' who were to use the train, are not using it at all). Defence > > dept. may be sitting on the top of another huge scam since Bofors, the > > telecom dept. has been under the cloud ever since A. Raja was the > minister, > > the consumer-price inflation has been touching the sky for the past 3 > years > > (it is 8% for almost the entire year going by the CPI figures), handling > of > > terrorism was a failure, and most of all, the NREGA was mostly running > > ineffectively. Even the much-touted handling of the Railways, under the > > previous Railway Minister, Shree Lalu Prasad, is now under the scanner, > but > > ironically, even during his field days as a minister, the CAG was > constantly > > criticizing his moves. > > > > Even the credible achievements of the UPA govt can be attributed either > to > > the organizations fighting on the ground (for bringing issues to notice), > > Left or to Sonia Gandhi (for thinking they are important and introducing > > such legislations in Parliament). The PM's achievements were handling > > problems in the Ambani family, mingling with the corporate sector, and > > involving himself in a vote which brought about another shameful day in > the > > Parliament (if you remember the trust vote his govt faced in 2008). And > of > > course, now he is back with the UID in his second term. > > > > Manmohan is certainly a weak PM (or strong depending on which side you > > are), but so of course were many. And what's more, problems won't be > solved > > if we make Dara Singh the PM of India (whom I believe Rajen jee would > > consider to be a strong enough male). It's in making the administration > > responsive and humane that the govt. would work. And that's what we > should > > strive towards. > > > > And more importantly, all of us should learn the meaning of equality and > be > > careful before making such statements. It's a request from me. > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:25:05 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:25:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907300228x461e0a3bx69e4eec1cb46ce1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907300227t54b3fd75v49dcb31246736fa5@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907300228x461e0a3bx69e4eec1cb46ce1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907300655j1aed1162i4ea46079875fa5c6@mail.gmail.com> Why talk of temples ruined in POK. Several temples in INdia have been destroyed during the moghul attacks on India. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Check out Shiva and Raghunath Temples of Mirpur [ POK ] in ruins . > > The pictures are available at www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/hindu-temples-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 19:27:02 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:27:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India needs to define smartcard standards- 174 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907300627p10557854p938a2ee8d48852a@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907290709y2e061229sf4eb46782f79d121@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907300452r24d76ff1ga7925a63f63d6100@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300627p10557854p938a2ee8d48852a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907300657i1828abf9tb3e022c223bce292@mail.gmail.com> Each life, living being, starts the journey of life from there.........universal black hole. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Rajen, > > If you would have noticed closely, you would have seen that those > green glasses have red frames but the glass holder is white. I love > brown embossed outlines too. The point being as, Shuddha's text must > have spoken something unto you, it is all a nice khichidi . Good to > know that you are coming from a black hole, I'd like to think a bit > more before arriving at a conclusion. > > I am sure you don't mind me being wanting some more time to think. > Thank you for reading my posts on ID cards and the project. It was a > pleasure to write. > > Regards > > Taha > > from Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > to Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > date Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:52 PM > subject Re: [Reader-list] India needs to define smartcard standards- 174 > mailed-by gmail.com > signed-by gmail.com > > hide details 12:52 PM (1 hour ago) > > > Reply > > Follow up message > Dear Taha, we all know where we come from, universal black hole.! I > was following with interest your posts about id and the project, but > alas, you have shown your typical green glasses.! > > Regards, > Rajen. > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 20:36:37 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:36:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907300651q6bcd41fajee9c1f2b04e9004d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907300441n54771ac2l82aa870c5a2078c6@mail.gmail.com> <20090730114342.9084E2C48027@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300445j43129c72p916955621dfcefb7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907300519j4f21ff95pd1fce947796943f2@mail.gmail.com> <20090730180146.65c80f9c@mail.sarai.net> <7271ec560907300651q6bcd41fajee9c1f2b04e9004d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee I have only two concerns: 1) 'We respect transgenders'. Please don't generalize such respect. Just because I and you respect someone doesn't mean others also respect it. Even there can be cases where I may respect someone but not you or vice-versa. I can only say: 'I respect individuals if they deserve it, not because they are male or trans-genders'. 2) Trans-genders also have roles beyond the traditional roles you have mentioned. They can and should also have the guarantee to other opportunites beyond these 'traditions'. The social stigma attached to them should be shed through education, and reasoning. And already, by stating that Manmohan makes flipflops, and stating that thereby 'he is neither here nor there', you have stated that he is a trans-gender and hence to be looked down upon. After all, even if he is making flip-flops, does that mean he should be compared to 'trans-gender'? I don't blame you alone of course, even I used to make comments like this at some point of time. But again it shows a side of one indirectly, and the wrong attributes to that statement which we should avoid and which anyway are wrong. And as for a PM, he should be 'People's Man', or the 'People's Minister' first, then only is he prime for me. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jul 30 21:07:14 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:37:14 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rana, Sure! As of now I do agree that people like KP of the DLF or MC for that matter are walking on an astral plane however if we were to allow ourselves to recede from the infectiously tactile world of real estate, to recede to rather cold confines of common sense garnered from years of analyzing hard data then maybe we could acknowledge that even real estate for whatever it is worth, is a business at the end of the day. And it also has its cycles. In cities like London for instance there are structures like Canary Wharf. Some would argue Canary Wharf as being the first world equivalent of hyper real office/shopping complexes as those built by MC's and KP's of Delhi. However, the real profit was not harvested by people who built these structures. The real profit, in terms of mind boggling return on investment went to companies who bought those companies who built these structures in the first place. The original builders were hyped for a decade or so and then subsequently went bust. Because it could not sustain a balance between real demand and expected/projected demand. The real estate story in Delhi, it seems, is following a similar path. The original ground work which needed a lot of weeding out and a lot of smoothening of processes was done by local players. Now I think the field is slowly becoming 'flat' for bigger players to move in. I, for one, will not be surprised to see that the demographics of real estate players going in for a major over haul in a few years time provided there is enough legislation to back the new entrants. We know that major architectural consultancies like Arup and Laing O' Rourke have already started looking at India in a big way. Even Emaar people are entering the country. Therefore I would like to think that there's going to be a lot of turf war amongst these players. In such an event, which is highly likely, would you really bet on people like MC's chasing their imperial dreams, when their own little fiefs are going to be under some pressure to share the pie? Warm regards Taha From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 22:52:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:52:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907300655j1aed1162i4ea46079875fa5c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70907300227t54b3fd75v49dcb31246736fa5@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907300228x461e0a3bx69e4eec1cb46ce1f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907300655j1aed1162i4ea46079875fa5c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied Kashmir)? From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 09:11:54 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:11:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907300227t54b3fd75v49dcb31246736fa5@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907300228x461e0a3bx69e4eec1cb46ce1f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907300655j1aed1162i4ea46079875fa5c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907302041j1250a174o782a82d8f553ad07@mail.gmail.com> How successful Lord Macaulay has been is now obvious. Murali On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > Kashmir)? > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 09:29:01 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:29:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907300227t54b3fd75v49dcb31246736fa5@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907300228x461e0a3bx69e4eec1cb46ce1f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907300655j1aed1162i4ea46079875fa5c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907302059r72179282qf9c05fce5697be3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , When I referred the readers to the temples of Mirpur [ www.thekashmir.wordpress.com ] , the intention was to take those readers back to the time when Mirpur was a very important city of Jammu & Kashmir state under the Sikh rule . A large popluation of that city were Hindus & Sikhs ,and as of today to my knowledge not even a single Hindu or Sikh family exist in that city to take care of these temples . I never suggested anyone to attack mosques across the country . Why should I do that to a place of prayer . Have I even remotely suggested that ? Regarding Indian Kashmir , i do not think any damage to any mosque would be caused , but i can provide you with list of scores of temples which have either been destroyed / looted or vandalised . Regards pawan On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > Kashmir)? > From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 09:26:08 2009 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:26:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> pawan, before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' i suggest, you  please throw these sickulars out of this country . they are the main culprits   call jagmohan to govern the j & k, give the military free hand abrogate 370 who so ever talks against india - kill him or her wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and tista settlewad)   problem will be solved in no time. vedavati --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Murali V" Cc: "reader-list" Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied Kashmir)? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 09:36:02 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:36:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907302106k3adbdcddn2b0f56448b81277d@mail.gmail.com> Just like it got solved in the last twenty years!!!!! On 7/31/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > pawan, > before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > they are the main culprits > > call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > give the military free hand > abrogate 370 > who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and > tista settlewad) > > problem will be solved in no time. > > vedavati > --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "reader-list" > Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > > > So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > Kashmir)? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Meera From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 09:50:00 2009 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:50:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <2ec0b0550907302106k3adbdcddn2b0f56448b81277d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <792871.81880.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> in last 20 years military has been asked to work under tremendous pressure 370 is still there govt. is pumping in millions of rupees for the welfare of kashmiri muslims (because hindus have already left the valley) yet yasin malik and others talk whatever they want against 'india'  still they are allowed to stay in 'india occupied' kashmir antinational elements like muftis were allowed rule the state.   thats why problem has not been solved in last 20 years. vedavati --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Meera Rizvi wrote: From: Meera Rizvi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Vedavati Jogi" Cc: "Rakesh Iyer" , reader-list at sarai.net Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 12:06 PM Just like it got solved in the last twenty years!!!!! On 7/31/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: pawan, before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' i suggest, you  please throw these sickulars out of this country . they are the main culprits call jagmohan to govern the j & k, give the military free hand abrogate 370 who so ever talks against india - kill him or her wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and tista settlewad) problem will be solved in no time. vedavati --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Murali V" Cc: "reader-list" Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied Kashmir)? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive:      See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: -- Meera Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 10:06:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:06:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <792871.81880.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <2ec0b0550907302106k3adbdcddn2b0f56448b81277d@mail.gmail.com> <792871.81880.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Indeed there is tremendous pressure. After all, when there are allegations of rape, murder and fake encounters flying thick and fast around, and with no investigations conducted in most of them, there is bound to be pressure on the military forces to act against civilian movements fighting for justice. The problem is not of Kashmiri Muslims v/s Kashmiri Hindus as some would like us to see. The problem is of justice. The first act required is to scrap the AFSPA and get the CRPF and other para-military forces out of the villages and to the border or to the barracks. That's their rightful place. Let the things be managed by the J & K police. Let's not forget, that peace returned in Punjab too only once people supported movements against terrorism and the police excesses were gone. And Pawan ji, while I accept your concern for temples, the no. of times we have heard about this particular argument has really made me 'sick' (not 'sickular') of hearing them time and again. (I think it would make anybody sick). The migration of Hindus and Sikhs must be studied, or even their conversion, in a contextual sense; so also the destruction of temples. Of course, if people can try to get them renovated, nothing better. My simple concern is this: What now that temples have been destroyed in the past? What should we do with it? If the concern is to get them renovated, it's on the last list of priority basis looking from a pro-people angle. Btw, I appreciate your concern that it's got nothing to do with mosques, because so many times the arguments presented seem as if it's Hindus v/s Muslims every time. Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 10:15:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:15:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Articles on Right to Food Message-ID: Dear all Having been inspired by Taha jee's constant articles on the UID, I have thought that we also need to pass on articles on other issues as well. And therefore, I have decided to post articles on the Right to Food, an important issue which needs to be looked at. This issue is important for people of all religions as well, so unlike say the UID, it won't have a bias too. And plus of course, it's something which needs to be looked at seriously for the huge no. of poor people in this country. To begin with, I post this article from livemint.com, which talks about how we can tackle India's hunger. I think it would be of great use for us to understand this issue, for it really gives them freedom from hunger, and makes it an entitlement for them. Combined with NREGA and RTI, it would be nothing short of revolutionary to achieve them. And as Pawan ji's status msg always says: 'The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall'. And efforts are being made to fall the apple. Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.livemint.com/2009/07/02205358/How-to-tackle-India8217s-hu.html How to tackle India’s hunger As India starts legislating on food security, there is much it could learn from laws and practices abroad Biraj Patnaik The manifesto of the Congress party promised the enactment of a Right to Food Act, if the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) was voted back to power. A preliminary shape of such an Act has emerged in what was reported in the media as the very first letter from Congress president Sonia Gandhi to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. The UPA government hopes to repeat through the passage of this Act what it had achieved during its last term through the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA)—a vision for more inclusive governance. [image: Indranil Bhoumik / Mint] Indranil Bhoumik / Mint At the heart of the idea of the right to food is a very simple premise. That no citizen of a country should go hungry, and that each citizen should at all times have physical access to, or the means to acquire, adequate nutritious food. It is time India delivered on this. Few countries in the world can claim to have achieved this fully, and, till recently, fewer still have legislated it. The reasons for this are not difficult to comprehend. Only a handful of developed countries have the resources and the social commitment to welfarism to make this happen. Some countries, such as the US, which actually have the resources to achieve the goal of a country free from hunger, do not legislate it. To them, such socio-economic rights are seen as a throwback to the Cold War, when the international debates between the socialist block and the US were on the superiority of civil and political rights over socio-economic rights. But the idea of nation states guaranteeing citizens the right to food is not a new one. Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by all United Nations member states in 1948, lists among a state’s obligation the right to food. Closer home, article 21 of the Constitution, which provides a fundamental right to life and personal liberty, has been repeatedly interpreted by the Supreme Court as enshrining within it the right to food. Article 47 obliges the Indian state to raise the standard of nutrition of its people. Despite this, India continues to have one of the worst track records globally, as far as the commitment to tackle hunger and malnutrition is concerned. The last round of the National Family Health Survey in 2006 confirmed that the child malnutrition rate in India is 46%, almost double that of sub-Saharan Africa. India, the world’s second fastest growing economy, ranks 66th among the 88 countries surveyed by the International Food Policy Research Institute (Ifpri) in the Global Hunger Index (2008), below Sudan, Nigeria and Cameroon, and slightly above Bangladesh. Yet, India has also seen some of the most remarkable judicial activism anywhere in the world on the right to food. The landmark *PUCL v. Union of India and others (2001)* case, better known as the right to food case, has seen at least 60 orders over the last eight years, and has emerged as the longest continuing mandamus—a legal writ where the court orders a person or entity to do something—in the world on the right to food. Somehow, until recently, this judicial activism hasn’t translated into legislation. Now is the opportunity for India to deliver—and learn from similar legislation abroad. Over the last few years, there has been a slew of legislation across the world which recognize the right to food as a fundamental right and provide state guarantees. South Africa was among the first countries in the world to explicitly guarantee the right to food in its constitution through its Bill of rights. The Brazilian constitution in 1998 introduced a minimum wage to meet basic needs, including food; the constitution was further modified in 2003 to introduce the concept of social rights for every citizen, including the right to food. This process culminated in Brazil’s Nutritional Security Framework Law (Losan) in 2006, which created a set of institutions for monitoring the right to food, and is likely to be the most lasting legacy of President Luiz Inacio Lula de Silva. Article 16 of the Bolivian constitution explicitly states, “Every person has the right to water and food. The State has the obligation to guarantee food security for all through healthy, adequate and sufficient food.” Even Belarus and Moldova have clear constitutional guarantees on the right to food. Argentina (2003) and Guatemala (2005) were the first South American countries to introduce framework laws on food security, closely followed by Ecuador (2006) and Venezuela (2008). South Africa, Honduras, Peru, Nicaragua and Uganda have already drafted right to food legislation that is being actively considered by their respective cabinets and parliaments. So what are the key lessons India can learn from this rich range of international experience on right to food legislation and the practice they have been put to? The first key lesson is that of political commitment of the leadership to the idea of right to food. A case in point would be a comparison between South Africa and Brazil. While South Africa guaranteed the right to food in its constitution in 1996 through a Bill of rights, the absence of political will to turn this into reality means that millions of South Africans continue their daily encounter with hunger. In stark contrast, the determination of the Brazilian president to eliminate hunger was evident in his inaugural speech when he announced the “*Fome* Zero”, or “Zero Hunger”, programme. “We will make it possible for people in our country to eat three square meals a day, every day, with no need for hand-outs from anyone.” It is this unambiguous commitment that continues to be at the heart of Brazil’s battle against hunger. The second key lesson is convergence. The right to food cuts across programmes of many sectors—including health, nutrition, agriculture, livelihoods, and labour. This means that in any context, at least a dozen ministries will be operating programmes that have some impact on the right. Converging all of these under a central leadership is critical. Brazil converged as many as 31 programmes which are now overseen by the ministry of food security and combating hunger. In the context of India, nine programmes run by five ministries, along with agencies such as the Food Corporation of India, are the respondents in the right to food case before the Supreme Court. It is imperative that our proposed legislation brings together all these programmes on a single converged platform. The state government of Delhi is currently undertaking a “Mission Convergence” with precisely this objective in mind. The third key lesson is creating a system of not just administrative, but also legal recourse. This is a key feature of the right to food Acts across countries. In Brazil, the public prosecutors’ office take up violations of human rights, including socio-economic rights, at the local level. Guatemala, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Uganda and South Africa have already put in place or proposed powerful national commissions that act as oversight bodies and also have the power to impose penalties. Although the Supreme Court has appointed its own commissioners to monitor the food and employment schemes of the Indian government, these commissioners do not have the kind of statutory powers to impose penalties that the bodies in other countries do. The fourth key lesson is the involvement of civil society. All countries which have legislated the right to food have involved civil society organizations, not just in local structures, but also in the national-level oversight bodies. Consea, the Brazilian council that oversees the implementation of the right to food, has as many as 38 civil society representatives. It is important that this engagement is not just in letter, but also in spirit, with governments taking civil society as seriously as it does its own bureaucracy and legislature. Most other countries have also involved civil society in the process of formulating their right to food legislation. Lastly, the key to the success of right to food legislation has been flexibility and innovation. Uganda has proposed including the “head of the household” as a duty bearer, with penalties—including fines and imprisonment—imposed for non-fulfilment of right to food obligations within the family. While this may not be a desirable innovation for India, it is specific to the national context there. Venezuela, Guatemala and Ecuador have a strong component of food sovereignty, with strong safeguards against genetically modified foods. The right to food Acts legislated globally are not only leading to stronger legal safeguards for poor and marginalized people, they are also translating into other policies and programmes. These include canteens in urban areas for the poor that serve cooked food at subsidized prices, cash transfer schemes, school meals, supplementary nutrition for infants, minimum food guarantees for labour and social security pensions. While there is a lot that India can learn from the global experience, it can also contribute uniquely to the international discourse on legislation on the right to food. Most of the laws mentioned above are framework pieces of legislation which define the broad parameters of the right to food. The Supreme Court has already established very detailed individual entitlements that are legally binding on the government. These include universal mid-day meals to every child studying in a government-run or aided primary school, nutrition, health and preschool education services through the Integrated Child Development Services for every child under the age of 6, subsidized grain to households living below the poverty line and monthly pensions for old people living below the poverty line. A Right to Food Act that weaves these legally binding entitlements into the text and spirit of the law will set a unique precedent globally. Are our lawmakers ready to take on this challenge? *Biraj Patnaik is principal adviser to the Supreme Court commissioners on the right to food. He has been actively involved in the Right to Food Campaign in India. The views expressed in this article are his own. Comments are welcome at theirview at livemint.com* From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 10:17:43 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:17:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles Message-ID: Link: http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/30/stories/2009063060470800.htm *For inclusive approach to food security *Brinda Karat * The proposed Food Security Act is flawed. The PDS should be made universal, as it was prior to the targeted system introduced in the 1990s as part of the neo-liberal agenda. * The President’s address to both Houses of Parliament included the promise of a National Food Security Act. Every family below the poverty line, in the rural and urban areas, will be legally entitled to 25 kg of rice or wheat a month at Rs. 3 a kg. In the context of increasing hunger, with India listed at a low 66 in the Food and Agriculture Organisation’s World Hunger Index of 88 countries, the need for a legally mandated food security framework is imperative. But will the proposal benefit the food insecure? According to current definitions of poverty, an estimated 6.5 crore families are below the poverty line. Among them are 2.5 crore Antyodaya families, considered the poorest among the poor and therefore eligible for additional subsidies. Today an Antyodaya family is entitled to 35 kg of wheat at Rs. 2 a kg, paying Rs. 70 a month. If the Food Security Act is implemented, this sum will rise to Rs.75 and the family will get 10 kg less of subsidised foodgrain. To make up, it will have to buy 10 kg from the market. At the current market rate of at least Rs. 12 a kg of wheat, this will mean Rs.120. A BPL family’s ration bill for the 35 kg of wheat it is entitled to is today around Rs. 157.50 at the average rate of Rs. 4.50 a kg. This includes the cost the States add to the Central issue price of Rs. 4.15 a kg. Since the Act proposes cutting the BPL quota by 10 kg, the benefits of lower prices will be negative and families will end up spending Rs. 195 for the same quantity of cereals. If the National Food Security Act is implemented as conceptualised by the Congress, it will be a cruel example of how the shallow rhetoric of inclusive growth conceals the cutting back of even the inadequate food entitlements the BPL and Antyodaya families get today. It has been assessed that cutting the quotas will lead to a saving of approximately Rs.4,000 crore in the food subsidy bill. Clearly, the current official thinking on the Act is flawed. First, the allotment of 35 kg should not be cut to 25 kg. Secondly, Antyodaya families that are receiving wheat at Rs. 2 a kg should continue to do so. Thirdly — and this is the most crucial aspect — why should the government limit the benefits of a mandated food security framework to those who have a BPL card? It is well known and recognised, including in official reports, that the targeted system of public distribution system has excluded large sections of the poor from its purview. National Statistical Survey data from the 61st Round shows that more than half of rural manual labourers, the section most in need of subsidised food, do not have BPL cards. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, such exclusion was 71 per cent and 73 per cent respectively. One reason is the incorrect identification of the poor, with corruption playing its role in the wrong distribution of BPL cards. The other, more substantive, reason is the methodology used by the Planning Commission to estimate poverty and the linking of subsidised food allocations to States based on these estimates. The monetary equivalent of the poverty line in India is just Rs.11.80 a day per adult in rural India and Rs. 17.80 a day for urban areas. All others are considered “above poverty line.” Such an absurd definition of poverty will obviously lead to massive exclusion. For any food security framework to be beneficial, the current poverty estimates have to be thrown out and a new framework accepted. It is reported that the Tendulkar Committee set up for this purpose has finalised its recommendations, which include an upward revision of rural poverty estimates. This may result in a larger number of families in rural India having access to subsidised foodgrains. That would be welcome. However, since the vast majority of people find work in the unorganised sector with wildly fluctuating incomes, accurate assessments of their food insecurity are unlikely. The Arjun Sengupta Commission on the unorganised sector assessed that 77 per cent of India’s adult population spent less than Rs. 20 a day. How can food requirements be met with such a low spending capacity? Can an Act for food security ignore this reality? The answer lies in delinking food allocations to the broad poverty estimates done by the Planning Commission. For the last decade or so, the estimates of poverty are translated into exact numbers of the poor and then divided into units for food allocations. While broad strokes of poverty estimation are certainly required to guide government policy, to link such estimates to concrete numbers to decide food allocations is unjust and unfair. The assessments of State governments such as Bihar and Bengal that have done detailed house-to-house surveys put the number of those who require subsidised foodgrains at 10.5 crore families. This is 40 per cent more than the Planning Commission estimate. The proposed Food Security law ignores these assessments and bases itself on the linkage of Planning Commission estimates of poverty to legally recognised food rights. The Central government must be sensitive to the fact that even as it delayed such a legally required food security system in spite of the relentless increase in the prices of foodgrains in the last five years, at least 10 State governments moved ahead to provide food security programmes, most of them superior to the proposed law. Almost all the 10 States have increased the numbers of those eligible for subsidised foodgrains by using their own criteria, which are more inclusive than the criteria used by the Centre. Chhattisgarh has included all tribal families and families headed by women. Kerala has included all tribal and Dalit families and all families of fisherpersons, apart from those chosen under nine core criteria. Chhattisgarh provides 35 kg of foodgrains to 70 per cent of the population, at Re. 1 kg for Antyodaya families and Rs.2 for the rest. Kerala provides 35 kg of rice per family at Rs. 2 a kg. Though the Central allocations of subsidised foodgrains are for only 11 per cent of the population, Kerala has used different criteria that ensure subsidised grain to 30 per cent. Andhra Pradesh provides 80 per cent of the population rice at Rs. 2 a kg, six kg per head depending on family size. Tamil Nadu has adopted a universal PDS providing 16 to 20 kg of foodgrains at Re. 1 a kg to all families. One of the main reasons for the growing food insecurity is that in the last five years the Central government virtually excluded the entire “above poverty line” families from the PDS. It also adopted new norms to justify cuts in allocations to the States for Above Poverty Line (APL) quotas. Between 2006 and 2008 the wheat quotas to APL were cut by over 73 per cent. Thus, those States which started their food schemes after 2006 have had to spend huge amounts from their budgets to help eliminate hunger. The Centre, which has control over foodgrain allocations, shifted a big part of the burden on to States, which are themselves facing a resource crunch. As an immediate measure towards food security and to ensure the sustainability of State schemes, the Centre should restore cuts in allocations to the States at subsidised prices. The government has stocks well above the buffer stock norms. The key to an inclusive approach to food security is to make the system universal as it was prior to the targeted system introduced in the 1990s as part of the neo-liberal agenda. The advantages of a universal system are well documented in India. There is little doubt that the errors of exclusion of the deserving far outnumber the errors of inclusion of the undeserving. If a universal system at BPL prices including an expanded Antyodaya segment is adopted, it will, according to estimates made by eminent economists, amount to around 1.6 per cent of GDP. Considering that in the last five years the annual revenue foregone in tax concessions to corporates was much higher than what it would cost for a universal PDS guaranteed by law, surely the country can afford to take such a step to eliminate food insecurity and hunger. *(Brinda Karat is a member of the Polit Bureau of the Communist Party of India (Marxist))* * * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 10:19:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:19:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles Message-ID: *Link: http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/01/stories/2009060153470800.htm Synergy between Food Security Act & NREGA *M.S. Swaminathan * The successful implementation of NREGA and the Right to Information Act indicates that the climate is conducive for a far-reaching, rights-based legislation to eliminate hunger and deprivation. * In its latest election manifesto the Congress pledged to “enact a Right to Food Law that guarantees access to sufficient food for all people, particularly the most vulnerable sectors of society.” It further pledged that “every family below the poverty line either in rural or urban areas will be entitled by law to 25 kg of rice or wheat per month at Rs. 3 per kg.” Also promised were subsidised community kitchens in all cities for homeless people and migrants with Central government support. And, “along the lines of NREGA we will enact a National Food Security Act.” Such an act will meet a goal set by Mahatma Gandhi for independent India: ‘the god of bread’ should bless every home and hut. There is an unacceptable extent of under-nutrition and malnutrition in India, which occupies a shameful position in all indices relating to hunger. A large segment of the chronically undernourished belongs to families of small and marginal farmers and landless labour. The position is serious in the case of women and children. Because of maternal and foetal under-nutrition and malnutrition, nearly every fourth child born is under-weight. Such low birth weight children suffer many handicaps including impaired cognitive ability. Thus, poor children are denied even at birth an opportunity for the full expression of their innate genetic potential for mental and physical development. This is inexcusable. The successful implementation of the NREGA and the Right to Information Act indicates that the climate is conducive for a far-reaching, rights-based legislation to eliminate hunger and deprivation. Supreme Court rulings reinforce the view that the right to food is basic to achieving the right to life enshrined in Article 21 of the Constitution. One of the terms of reference the UPA government set in 2004 for the National Commission on Farmers was to “work out a comprehensive medium-term strategy for food and nutrition security in the country in order to move towards the goal of universal food security over time.” The NCF held consultations all over India on the pathways to a nutrition-secure India. Its report was submitted on October 4, 2006. By definition, food security involves every individual gaining physical, economic, social and environmental access to a balanced diet that includes the necessary macro- and micro-nutrients, safe drinking water, sanitation, environmental hygiene, primary healthcare and education so as to lead a healthy and productive life. The food should originate from efficient and environmentally benign production technologies that conserve and enhance the natural resource base of crops, farm animals, forestry, inland and marine fisheries. Such a holistic definition requires concurrent attention to the following aspects, too: *Food availability*: This is a function of home production or, where absolutely essential, imports. *Food access*: This is a function of livelihood opportunities and purchasing power. (As early as in 1859, a Famine Commission appointed by the colonial government said: “Indian famines are not famines of food, but of works; where there is work there is money and where there is money there is food.” This is why Mahatma Gandhi said in 1946 at Noakhali. “To a people famishing and idle, the only acceptable form in which God can dare appear is work and promise of food as wages.” *Food absorption*: The utilisation of food in the body will depend on non-food factors such as safe drinking water, environmental hygiene, primary healthcare and access to toilets. Therefore, while developing legislation for food security, food and non-food factors will have to be considered together on the following lines. *Food availability*: The government has initiated programmes to increase food production, such as the Rashtriya Krishi Vikas Yojana, the Food Security Mission, and the National Horticulture Mission. Food availability should relate to macro- and micro-nutrients. In addition to protein calorie undernutrition, there is severe micronutrient malnutrition, as for example, of iron, iodine, vitamin A, vitamin B12 and zinc, leading to hidden hunger. The National Horticulture Mission provides an opportunity to introduce horticultural remedies to nutritional maladies. All that is needed is mainstreaming the nutritional dimension in designing the horticulture programme in each agro-climatic area. The other areas which will need attention are: widening the food basket by including local grain varieties like ragi, jowar and millets in the public distribution system; the promotion of community gene, seed, food and water banks in each village, and the establishment of community kitchens modelled on the Indira Gandhi Community Kitchen organised years ago in Pune. These are particularly effective in combating malnutrition in urban areas. The widening of the food basket by including millets, legumes and tubers, which have greater tolerance to adverse conditions, is important in the context of climate change. *Food access*: The Congress manifesto has said 25 kg of rice or wheat would be provided each month to economically underprivileged families at Rs. 3 a kg. With the initiation of the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA), the minimum purchasing power for food security is being created in families living below the poverty line. By adopting the support price policy recommended by the NCF, that is, C2 (total cost of production) plus 50 per cent as has been done in the case of wheat this year, the purchasing power of small and marginal farmers can be improved. Universalisation of the PDS is an idea whose time has come, since there are adequate grain stocks. *Food absorption*: Here, the schemes dealing with drinking water, sanitation, environmental hygiene and so on should be brought together. The Total Sanitation programme and the Rajiv Gandhi Drinking Water Mission, if implemented with community participation through panchayats and nagarpalikas, will make a difference in promoting effective absorption of food in the body, particularly among children. With such a holistic approach, chronic, hidden and transient hunger can be addressed in a cost effective and meaningful manner. To provide political oversight and to foster a pan-political approach in matters relating to food security, the NCF recommended the establishment of a National Food Security and Sovereignty Board under the chairmanship of the Prime Minister and with members drawn from different political parties, Union Ministers and Chief Ministers. Such a political support and oversight body should become an integral part of the legislation. NREGA, food security & human development The National Rural Employment Guarantee Act, which came into force in February 2006, now covers all of rural India. It has generated over 450 crore person-days of employment, a major share going to women and Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe families. Over Rs. 35,000 crore has been paid as wages. The priorities of the work to be undertaken include watershed management and water conservation, drought-proofing, flood protection, land development, minor irrigation and rural connectivity. Such work is important to strengthen the ecological foundations of sustainable agriculture. The NREGA is probably the world’s largest ecological security programme. A major weakness has been the absence of effective technical guidance and support from agricultural and rural universities and institutes. The Union Ministry of Rural Development has taken steps to achieve convergence of brain and brawn, by enlisting the support of Ministries and Departments. Such convergence of expertise for sustainable development will help to enhance farm productivity without causing ecological harm. What is now needed is a convergence for human development at NREGA sites. India occupies the 132nd position among 179 countries in the UNDP’s 2009 Human Development Index. That position may worsen. NREGA workers represent some of the most economically and socially underprivileged sections. Mostly, these workers are undernourished, with poor opportunities for healthcare. Hence, there is need to bring about a convergence of child care, nutrition, health (Rural Health Mission) and education programmes at NREGA sites. Education can be imparted in the evenings, using the joyful learning techniques available in computer-aided literacy programmes. Such a convergence in sustainable development along with convergence in human development will be creditable. There is also a need to raise the self-esteem of NREGA workers, making them feel proud of the fact that they are engaged in checking eco-destruction. Due recognition could be given to the NREGA groups that have done outstanding work in water harvesting, watershed development and soil healthcare with “Environment Saviour Awards”. This will help spread awareness of the critical role NREGA workers play. To begin with, there could be 10 awards covering distinct agro-climatic zones, each worth Rs. 10 lakh. Since these will be group awards, the money could be divided among the workers, depending on how long they have worked. The NREGA will then help to improve both food security and human development index. There are uncommon opportunities to erase India’s image as the land of the poor, hungry and illiterate. To utilise them, an import requirement is a change in the mindset from patronage to partnership and from undervaluing the human resource to considering our youthful population as our greatest asset. * (Professor M.S. Swaminathan is Chairman of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation, Chennai, and a Member of the Rajya Sabha.) * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 10:24:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:24:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles Message-ID: Dear all This particular articles is being taken up from the Right to Food campaign. You can go to this site as well to check the relevant articles if you wish. But of course, I will continue to post these as and when I can. It's basically a campaign which was organized to fight for the Right to Food. This can also help us in understanding the campaign as it went. And give us a better understanding of the problems as well. Regards Rakesh Do go through these if possible. Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.righttofoodindia.org/links/updates/update1.html *UPDATE 1 * *Date: *August 2002 Dear friends, Plans are afoot to step up the Right to Food campaign, as widespread drought presents us with new challenges. From now on we will be sending you regular "updates" (say 2-3 times a month), with news from the campaign around the country. IF YOUR ORGANISATION HAS A NEWSLETTER, PLEASE CONSIDER REPRINTING PORTIONS OF THESE UPDATES IN THE NEWSLETTER, TO HELP SPREAD AWARENESS ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN. If you are an active member of the campaign, please send us information from to time about your activities, for inclusion in future Updates. Contributions to the Right to Food Update may be sent to right2food at yahoo.co.in To facilitate reading, each Update will begin with a list of "headlines", as a guide to the content of the main text. Here are today's headlines: 1. The right to food campaign's foundation "statement". 2. Survey of Anna Antyodaya Yojana completed. 3. A proposal to end starvation. 4. Supreme Court hearing to resume soon. 5. Commissioners appointed by the Supreme Court. 6. Setting up a monitoring process. 7. Meetings with Food Minister, Finance Minister, etc. 8. Progress of mid-day meal programmes. 9. Campaign website. 10. Writ petitions in High Courts. 11. Public hearing on right to food in Palamau. 12. Jharkhand: campaign stepped up at all levels. 13. Special issue of "Combat Law" on the right to food *1. THE RIGHT TO FOOD CAMPAIGN'S "FOUNDING STATEMENT"* The Right to Food Campaign is an informal, decentralised network of individuals and organisations committed to the right to food. It is based on voluntary cooperation between like-minded people. To ensure some coherence in this network, it was felt that a common "statement" is needed, spelling out what unites us. After much discussion, the following was adopted as the campaign's "founding statement": THE "RIGHT TO FOOD CAMPAIGN" IS AN INFORMAL NETWORK OF ORGANISATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS COMMITTED TO THE REALISATION OF THE RIGHT TO FOOD IN INDIA. WE CONSIDER THAT EVERYONE HAS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM HUNGER AND UNDERNUTRITION. REALISING THIS RIGHT REQUIRES NOT ONLY EQUITABLE AND SUSTAINABLE FOOD SYSTEMS, BUT ALSO ENTITLEMENTS RELATING TO LIVELIHOOD SECURITY SUCH AS THE RIGHT TO WORK, LAND REFORM AND SOCIAL SECURITY. WE CONSIDER THAT THE PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY FOR GUARANTEEING THESE ENTITLEMENTS RESTS WITH THE STATE. LACK OF FINANCIAL RESOURCES CANNOT BE ACCEPTED AS AN EXCUSE FOR ABDICATING THIS RESPONSIBILITY. IN THE PRESENT CONTEXT, WHERE PEOPLE'S BASIC NEEDS ARE NOT A POLITICAL PRIORITY, STATE INTERVENTION ITSELF DEPENDS ON EFFECTIVE POPULAR ORGANISATION. WE ARE COMMITTED TO FOSTERING THIS PROCESS THROUGH ALL DEMOCRATIC MEANS. *2. SURVEY OF ANTYODAYA ANNA YOJANA COMPLETED* A survey of Antyodaya Anna Yojana was conducted in June 2002 by a team of researchers based at the Centre for Development Economic and the Centre for Equity Studies. The survey covers 46 villages in five states: Andhra Pradesh, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh. Preliminary results indicate that the scheme is doing quite well, in contrast with most other food-based welfare programmes. Most of the households included in the Antyodaya programme are very poor, suggesting that the "selection" procedure is working reasonably well. Further, the sample households obtained about 70 per cent of their official entitlements (currently 35 kgs of grain per month) since the programme was introduced. This compares favourably with the public distribution system and school-meal programmes in the same areas. Further, corruption in the Antyodaya programme appears to be relatively low. The programme is particularly effective in Andhra Pradesh, and very defective in Jharkhand. A detailed report is in progress. *3. A PROPOSAL TO END STARVATION* Based on the findings of the above-mentioned survey, a proposal for a large-scale, long-term programme of food-based social security for destitute households has been prepared. This proposal has been filed in the Supreme Court as an interim application. We encourage you to take up this proposal for discussion in your own organisation. Any comments or suggestions should be sent to right2food at yahoo.co.in *4. SUPREME COURT HEARING TO RESUME ON 2ND SEPTEMBER* The Supreme Court hearing on the right to food (PUCL vs Union of India and other, Writ Petition (Civil) No. 196 of 2001) will resume on 2nd September, after a long gap (the last hearing was held on 8 May). We are hoping that the hearing will focus on the proposal to end food insecurity among destitute households (see item 3). After that, we hope to take up the issue of "employment guarantee". *5. COMMISSIONERS APPOINTED BY THE SUPREME COURT* In its order of 8 May 2002, the Supreme Court has appointed Dr. N.C. Saxena and Mr. S.R. Sankaran as "commissioners" for the purpose of monitoring the orders issued in the context of this hearing. The Commissioners are empowered to enquire about any violations of these orders and to demand redressal, with the full authority of the Supreme Court. They are also expected to report to the court from time to time. This is an important tool of action: any breach of the orders can be questioned by the Commissioners with the full authority of the Supreme Court. One qualification: in principle, complaints are to be sent to the Commissioners only after the "lower level" redressal mechanisms (e.g. complaints to the BDO, District Collector, etc.) have been exhausted. However, this clause can be flexibly interpreted. *6. SETTING UP A MONITORING PROCESS* Following on this, the process of setting up a broad- based "monitoring and redressal system", making full use of the powers of the commissioners, has been initiated. An "adviser" will be designated in each of the major states to liaise with the Commissioners and bring to their attention any breaches of the orders that may have been committed in the state. The advisers will themselves be helped by a team of members of the Right to Food Campaign. A meeting to discuss this entire process was held on 9-10 August at the Indian Social Institute, Delhi. We shall report on this meeting in the next Update. *7. MEETINGS WITH THE FOOD MINISTER AND FINANCE MINISTER* Three members of the right to food "support group" (Colin Gonsalvez, Harsh Mander and Jean Drèze) met the new Food Minister, Shri Sharad Yadav, in early July. The Minister conveyed his full support for the campaign, including the public interest litigation. He said that this campaign would strengthen his own bargaining power within the government. The proposal to "end starvation" was presented to him and he promised to follow this up. A request has also been made for a meeting with the Finance Minister. Indeed, the hidden hand of the Finance Ministry looms large over all these issues. In his first public statement as new Finance Minister, Mr. Jaswant Singh said that his priority would be to ensure that every family is protected from hunger. Media reports also suggest that he is planning to introduce a "new Antyodaya Anna Yojana". This is a good opportunity to get the Finance Ministry on board, in so far as this can be done. *8. PROGRESS OF SCHOOL MEAL PROGRAMMES* State governments have begun implementing the school meal (or "mid-day meal") programme, in response to the Supreme Court's interim order of 28 November, 2001. Some state governments, such as those of Bihar, Jharkhand and Uttar Pradesh, have still not shown any sign of introducing cooked mid-day meals in primary schools. But many other states have made steps in that direction. Rajasthan stands out for having introduced cooked mid-day meals as per Supreme Court orders within the stipulated deadline (1 March, 2002), partly due to sustained pressure from the Right to Food campaign in that state. There is still plenty to do on this front, not only in ensuring that the "laggard" states implement the order, but also in ensuring that the mid-day meal scheme does not become token or even counter- productive programme. A helper is needed to cook the food, since teachers (or pupils for that matter) cannot and should not be expected to do it. Safeguards are needed to ensure the quality of the food and its hygienic preparation. Adequate provisions are also required for utensils, fuel, transport, and so on. Most state governments are trying to get away with the minimum. Maharashtra, for instance, is apparently expecting mid-day meals to be financed through local "contributions" from parents, with the state just providing uncooked grain as before (see item 14 below). These attempts to derail or dilute the mid-day meal programme must be resisted. *10. WRIT PETITIONS IN HIGH COURTS* A petition has been submitted in the Ranchi High Court, demanding the immediate implementation of Supreme Court orders on the right to food, especially the interim order of 28 November, 2001. The petition has been submitted by PUCL (Ranchi) and Gram Swaraj Abhiyan. A similar petition is being prepared for submission to the Allahabad High Court, with special focus on mid-day meals (which are nowhere to be seen in Uttar Pradesh). *11. PUBLIC HEARING ON RIGHT TO FOOD IN PALAMAU* A lively "public hearing" on hunger and the right to food took place on 9 July in Manatu (Palamau district, Jharkhand). This public hearing, held in the thick of one of India's most deprived and troubled areas, took place in response to the critical situation that had developed there (three starvation deaths were recently reported in village Kusumatand, Manatu panchayat). The hearing was convened by members of Gram Swaraj Abhiyan and the Right to Food Campaign. It was preceded by a detailed survey of 36 villages of Manatu, which brought to light the disastrous state of public services and welfare programmes in the area. The hearing was attended by thousand of hunger-affected people from the surrounding villages, and paved the way for further action in the area. For a first-hand account of this public hearing, see the current issue of Frontline (also available at www.flonnet.com). *12. JHARKHAND: CAMPAIGN STEPPED UP* Following on the public hearing in Manatu, efforts are being made to step up the Right to Food Campaign in Jharkhand. A petition has been submitted in the Ranchi High Court (see item 10 above). On 11 July, another day of agitation on mid-day meals took place in Ranchi. Ignoring Section 144, hundreds of children "invaded" the Chief Minister's residence and handed him a petition for mid-day meals. The CM was sympathetic and promised to look into the matter. On 15 July, a meeting was held with opposition MLAs, who decided to send a team to Manatu shortly. Another fact-finding team, consisting of eminent scholars from Ranchi University and others, went to Manatu later in the month. *13. SPECIAL ISSUE OF "COMBAT LAW" ON THE RIGHT TO FOOD* The third issue (August-September) of Combat Law, a new human rights magazine, focuses on the right to food. It includes details of recent Supreme Court orders, and two accounts of the Right to Food campaign. This will be of particular interest to those who are not familiar with the campaign. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 11:05:42 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:05:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> Vedavati, How right you are. V Murali On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > pawan, > before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > they are the main culprits > > call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > give the military free hand > abrogate 370 > who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and > tista settlewad) > > problem will be solved in no time. > > vedavati > --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "reader-list" > Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > > > So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > Kashmir)? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From aliens at dataone.in Fri Jul 31 11:30:13 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:30:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] INVESTMENT TOPPER Message-ID: <002701ca11a4$2cbbbbd0$0201a8c0@limo> SEE THE FOLLOWING LINK FOR GUJARAT TOP IN INVESTMENT http://www.slideshare.net/www.narendramodi.in/gujarat-leading-in-project-investment From tapasrayx at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 12:07:35 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:37:35 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum like Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the law. Murali V wrote: > Vedavati, > How right you are. > V Murali > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > >> pawan, >> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' >> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . >> they are the main culprits >> >> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, >> give the military free hand >> abrogate 370 >> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and >> tista settlewad) >> >> problem will be solved in no time. >> >> vedavati >> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> >> From: Rakesh Iyer >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur >> To: "Murali V" >> Cc: "reader-list" >> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM >> >> >> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques >> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied >> Kashmir)? >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> >> >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out >> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 12:32:29 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:32:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> The calls to "kill" and "wipe-out" in Vedavati Jogis' response are as clear an incitement to violence as you will see. (Even when applied to people who "speak against India", whatever that means...) Although I doubt that many on this list are going to be provoked to follow the exhortations, I do think this is a moment for the moderators to run a quick check on what constitutes the outer limits of free speech (and fearless listening!) in this forum. best Sanjay Kak ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tapas Ray Date: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: reader-list at sarai.net I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum like Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the law. Murali V wrote: > Vedavati, > How right you are. > V Murali > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > >> pawan, >> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' >> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . >> they are the main culprits >> >> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, >> give the military free hand >> abrogate 370 >> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and >> tista settlewad) >> >> problem will be solved in no time. >> >> vedavati >> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> >> From: Rakesh Iyer >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur >> To: "Murali V" >> Cc: "reader-list" >> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM >> >> >> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques >> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied >> Kashmir)? >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> >> >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out >> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 12:33:52 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:33:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Literary Translations Workshop in September in Calcutta & Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't attached the application form. Mail them if you want it. *From:* Ghosh, Nibedita *Sent:* 30 July 2009 ***Subject:* Literary Translations Workshop : Invitation Dear All We are organising a Literary Translations Workshop in September in Kolkata and Delhi. We are inviting applications from young translators within 35 years of age (last date – 7 August 2009) Request you to please send the following mailer to all your contacts. Thanks Nibedita _____________________________________________ Greetings from the British Council! We are pleased to inform you that Sahitya Akademi and British Council will present a literary translations skills training programme in Delhi and Kolkata in September 2009. The training continues the series of literature programmes that bring the writing, publishing and reading communities closer together in India and the UK, and follows the success of *the India ’09 Market Focus at the London Book Fair* The training will be led by Prof Amanda Hopkinson, Director, *British Centre for Literary Translation, University of East Anglia*and Pratik Kanjilal of ***The Little Magazine* **** . The workshop will aim at personal and professional development for the individual, with capacity built in literary translation by developing translation theory and practical translation skills, as well as increased knowledge of supporting areas such as editing and marketing translated works. The workshop will be held at the Sahitya Akademi premises in Kolkata on 7 and 8 September 2009 and in Delhi on 11 and 12 September 2009. Applications are welcome from Indian translators* below 35 years of age* (as on 1 September 2009) who have a track record in published translation. Translators from and to any language may apply for the training programme, though the interaction at the training programme will be primarily in English. The selection process is competitive: we will select 15 translators for each venue who will benefit most from the skills training. We request you to nominate / forward this to translators in contact with you. Please visit *http://www.britishcouncil.org/india-projects-icd-literatur e.htm* for more information and to complete the online application form. Alternatively, you may also fill in the attached form and email it along with a sample of your translation to my colleague Nibedita Ghosh (* nibedita.ghosh at in.britishcouncil.org* ). The deadline for receiving applications is*** Friday 7 August 2009.***** I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely Debanjan Chakrabarti Head, Intercultural Dialogue, India <> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 12:46:29 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:46:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> I thought the provocation came from the mail of Rakesh Iyer ....? On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > The calls to "kill" and "wipe-out" in Vedavati Jogis' response are as clear > an incitement to violence as you will see. (Even when applied to people who > "speak against India", whatever that means...) > Although I doubt that many on this list are going to be provoked to follow > the exhortations, I do think this is a moment for the moderators to run a > quick check on what constitutes the outer limits of free speech (and > fearless listening!) in this forum. > > best > > Sanjay Kak > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tapas Ray > Date: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum like > Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the law. > > > Murali V wrote: > > Vedavati, > > How right you are. > > V Murali > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi >wrote: > > > >> pawan, > >> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > >> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > >> they are the main culprits > >> > >> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > >> give the military free hand > >> abrogate 370 > >> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy > and > >> tista settlewad) > >> > >> problem will be solved in no time. > >> > >> vedavati > >> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Rakesh Iyer > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > >> To: "Murali V" > >> Cc: "reader-list" > >> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > >> > >> > >> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > >> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > >> Kashmir)? > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > >> > >> > >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check > out > >> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:20:48 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:20:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310050i6562dde0o33dd322322a3cd37@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, and Sanjay, for too long, tolerence of the individuals to be tolerent towards deviant has been promoted and sustained as good culture of the nation, which seems to be applicable only to majority community if they happen to be hindus, and there are "hindus" who for the personal gains use the islam to have polygamy, examples are too many in not only celebrity circle as that of a Mahesh Batt, Chand Pasha, and many more using the faith as cover for their "secular" ideals, as seen in the society. Average hindu has no hate nor revenge for islam, but has a grouse that these individuals take the advantage of being "secular to avail undue advantage to themselves and not for all in society. Just as i see Imran hashmi on tv complaining about not being able to buy a flat as he is muslim, his wife being hindu, isn't is amusing that mahesh batt is the spokesperson for him, representing muslims(?), but if any hindu talks of ills in society, there are many who will attack such thoughts that the person speaking is not spokesperson for hindus.? How many muslims will allow hindus to stay where they are major occupants like the Zafferies of Ahmedabad in Gulbarg apartments.? Ofcourse we have seen many so called hindus talk of being very secular for the atrocities by muslims to prove their "secular" credentials, forgetting that a crime is a crime. Kasab getting the best of legal aid at the cost of nation, of which muslim is minority, Afjal Guru surviving conviction with chicken biryani, Geelani being acquitted after prosecution failing to produce "evidence" carried from Geelanis home in truckloads, as investigators failing to submit it to prosecution are all our "secular" acts for anticipated votes,selective screening in tv of the corruption of bangaru accepting from pimps and prostitues run media house creating tehelka in the nation, but failing to catch the crores in sting against a single MP of Congress who accepts five crores or more for subverting laws for hi client of hit and run case.? In todays' world muslim is safest in this nation, not even in islmic nations, for a beer one can get lashed in public, for wearing jeans one can get lashes, for going out with brother, one cn get thrashed, so if Taha is keen to stop the id cards, with seemingly genuine cocern about the funds utilised for such cards, the lurking fear underneath such action is that of a person who is scared that his privacy to commit crimes will be monitored, that is the fact. Kasab and his associates had enough assistance from indian muslims, but the system ants to be secular even when Pakistan states that there was local help.! ID cards may not be foolproof but will instill fear for the wrong doer to be careful as he indulges in crime for his religion, be a muslim, hindu or christian. Only the rama sena is condemned for "moral " policing, but what about the moral police of islam and christianity,? Is secular life meant only for hindus, as if they do not have even right of self defence.? To top it all in the system of governance, where every citizen must be governed by rule of laws, equality before laws, benefits of the exchequer to every citizen for beter life, we have a Manmohini Singh, who is bold, brave as a woman with golden voice pleading the first bite for muslims.! No doubt every muslim should be equal for all the benefits and freedom of the nation, but let him also be accountable for his nation, not to the faith. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > I thought the provocation came from the mail of Rakesh Iyer ....? > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > > The calls to "kill" and "wipe-out" in Vedavati Jogis' response are as > clear > > an incitement to violence as you will see. (Even when applied to people > who > > "speak against India", whatever that means...) > > Although I doubt that many on this list are going to be provoked to > follow > > the exhortations, I do think this is a moment for the moderators to run a > > quick check on what constitutes the outer limits of free speech (and > > fearless listening!) in this forum. > > > > best > > > > Sanjay Kak > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Tapas Ray > > Date: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum like > > Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the law. > > > > > > Murali V wrote: > > > Vedavati, > > > How right you are. > > > V Murali > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi < > vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com > > >wrote: > > > > > >> pawan, > > >> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > > >> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > > >> they are the main culprits > > >> > > >> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > > >> give the military free hand > > >> abrogate 370 > > >> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > > >> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati > roy > > and > > >> tista settlewad) > > >> > > >> problem will be solved in no time. > > >> > > >> vedavati > > >> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Rakesh Iyer > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > > >> To: "Murali V" > > >> Cc: "reader-list" > > >> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > > >> > > >> > > >> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > > >> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > > >> Kashmir)? > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > >> > > >> > > >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check > > out > > >> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:21:37 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:21:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes Pawan ji. I accept whole-heartedly that I was the provocation (my statement, that is). After all, when Indira Gandhi's death can be a provocation for the death of 3,000 Sikhs in just 2-3 days, and when Godhra can be a provocation for the butchery and rape in Gujarat, Vedavati ji's thoughts pale in comparison to those incidents. (After all, they are only thoughts, not actions, right?) Btw, I think we need to move ahead from pro-Hindu or pro-Muslim views to pro-people's views, for a change. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:28:50 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:28:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> Yes, Rakesh jee, in our enthusiasm to be secular, we forget the crimes of some deviants in islam, as they are major vote banks, and ofcourse they are major rubble rousers even as "minority" najor number of zombies come out of friday prayers after calls like yours .! In Srinagar, all can see how friday is compared to other days after he zumma prayers.! Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Yes Pawan ji. I accept whole-heartedly that I was the provocation (my > statement, that is). After all, when Indira Gandhi's death can be a > provocation for the death of 3,000 Sikhs in just 2-3 days, and when Godhra > can be a provocation for the butchery and rape in Gujarat, Vedavati ji's > thoughts pale in comparison to those incidents. (After all, they are only > thoughts, not actions, right?) > > Btw, I think we need to move ahead from pro-Hindu or pro-Muslim views to > pro-people's views, for a change. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:51:41 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:51:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen ji I don't wish to be secular, I would rather leave that to you and others on the forum on their choice to be secular or not. Secondly, by stating that Muslims are zombies, what do you wish to convey? Infact, none of you: Pawan ji, Murali ji, Rajen ji, or Vedavati ji (anybody else in this team is also welcome) have answered one simple question: Yes, the temples were destroyed by the Mughals or by other Islamic kings. What should we do about that? Should we repair and renovate the temples? Should we go and destroy mosques equal in no. to the no of temples destroyed? Should we kill Muslims or convert them into Hinduism by force? Should we rape Muslim women because Hindu women may have been raped in the past? Should we declare Muslims to be 'traitors' and 'anti-nationals' and thereby exterminate them? Or should we declare a national policy that 'Muslims are not to be trusted in public space or personal relations'? Or something else? What should we do about that? At least come to the point. Regards Rakesh From tarunbhartiya at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:52:22 2009 From: tarunbhartiya at gmail.com (Tarun Bhartiya) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:52:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Incitement Excitement Message-ID: I think Sanjay is being reasonable when he doubts 'that many on this list are going to be provoked to follow the exhortations' of Ms. Jogi but who knows? We have only their words to go by. I think I have had enough of this kind keyboard(?) behaviour. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:54:58 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:54:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , I had posted a link [ www.thekashmir.wordpress.com ] and posted pictures of rare Hindu temples in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir . I do not understand why does these picture provoke somebody ? These pictures are for ones one imagination and understanding ..... Pawan On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen ji > > I don't wish to be secular, I would rather leave that to you and others on > the forum on their choice to be secular or not. Secondly, by stating that > Muslims are zombies, what do you wish to convey? > > Infact, none of you: Pawan ji, Murali ji, Rajen ji, or Vedavati ji (anybody > else in this team is also welcome) have answered one simple question: > > Yes, the temples were destroyed by the Mughals or by other Islamic kings. > What should we do about that? Should we repair and renovate the temples? > Should we go and destroy mosques equal in no. to the no of temples > destroyed? Should we kill Muslims or convert them into Hinduism by force? > Should we rape Muslim women because Hindu women may have been raped in the > past? Should we declare Muslims to be 'traitors' and 'anti-nationals' and > thereby exterminate them? Or should we declare a national policy that > 'Muslims are not to be trusted in public space or personal relations'? Or > something else? > > What should we do about that? At least come to the point. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 14:03:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:03:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan ji I have no issues with your putting pictures. But the way some people are going about on this issue is totally horrendous. My concern is simply this: we on this forum are simply not debating or discussing issues which are really for the people. I don't say that temple destruction is not an issue for the people, but to completely mix it with Muslim-bashing, is that acceptable? I know I made that comment about the IOK. But what I would like to know is that when it keeps on coming, it seems the only objective left behind on this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are supposed to be portrayed as only men having destructive mentality, rapists, killers, butchers or even perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. And my point is that I don't accept this view. I also asked the question to know from all whether they have some idea behind putting such pictures or writing such views, and whether it is to avenge the destruction of temples or renovating them or something else. You could have simply stated the same. Of course, for the rest, it's difficult to digest even Muslim presence I believe in this nation, forget the world of course. Regards Rakesh From difusion at medialab-prado.es Fri Jul 31 14:05:36 2009 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (difusion) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:35:36 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Projects and Papers on Public Data Visualization (Madrid) Message-ID: <4A72ACD8.7080401@medialab-prado.es> Visualizar'09: Public Data, Data in Public Call for projects and papers *International Workshop-Seminar on Public Data Visualization November 12 - 27, 2009 in Medialab-Prado (Madrid, Spain) Deadline for projects and papers: October 5, 2009* *Call for collaborators: October 16 - November 11, 2009* http://medialab-prado.es/visualizar Directed by José Luis de Vicente. Teachers: Ben Cerveny (Stamen) and Aaron Koblin. With the support of Bestiario. This new edition will focus on the implications of using data structure visualization to aid in public processes of decision-making. Selected projects and papers will tackle the topic of Open Data and Visualization for Government Transparency and Civic Engagement. Visualizar'09 includes an* international seminar *and an *advanced project development workshop*. Both activities will tackle the topic of transparency of data to make public discussion and debate possible, regarding the political, social, and scientific processes. Consequently, one of the objectives of Visualizar'09 will be the development of new strategies for communicating these data and returning them to the public domain. All those interested in collaborating in one of the selected projects can sign in from* October 16 to November 11*. *Submission of databases:* Public databases of institutions or research groups interested in sharing them and making them more available to citizens can be sent to visualizar[arroba]medialab-prado.es or through http://medialab-prado.es/visualizar Submitted databases could serve as work material for data visualization projects selected for this workshop. *More information:* http://medialab-prado.es/article/convocatoria_de_proyectos__visualizar_09_datos_publicos_datos_en_publico visualizar(arroba)medialab-prado.es With the support of the Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology - Ministry of Science and Innovation (FECYT - Ministerio de Ciencia e Innovación) -- Nerea García Garmendia Comunicación / Press Medialab-Prado Área de Las Artes, Ayuntamiento de Madrid Plaza de las Letras Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid Tfno. +34 914 202 754 difusion at medialab-prado.es www.medialab-prado.es From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 14:05:38 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:05:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 2 Message-ID: Dream to make India hunger free [image: Bookmark and Share] 13 July 2009 The Indian government’s announcement to introduce a Right to Food Act has already generated an intense debate, says social activist *Harsh Mander*. In a country where millions still suffer from chronic hunger, enforcement of such a law holds tremendous promise of exiling hunger from every home, he argues. In a nation where mammoth wealth and intense destitution have co-existed for millennia, a law that would bind governments to guarantee that no man, woman or child sleeps hungry could be momentous. [image: Harsh.jpg]Harsh Mander/ Photo credit: The Milli Gazette It is such a right to food law that the newly installed union government in India has promised its people. A debate about the contours of such a law has begun within and outside government. If passed, it can become – with the Right to Information Act and the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act – the most significant contribution of this government to humane and accountable governance. In free India, famines in which the lives of tens of thousands of people were snuffed out in brief dense moments of dark tragedy have passed into his tory. But hunger survives in the form of individual men, women and children – and sometimes entire tribal or dalit communities – subsisting for long periods without sufficient food. They are forced to cut back on their food intakes, sometimes reduced toeating one meal a day; or to beg for food; or to eat tubers, grasses and mango kernels that fill their stomachs but provide no nutrition; or sometimes just to drink the starch water left over after cooking rice, which their neighbours give them in tight-fisted charity. They suffer to see their children painfully sleep on empty stomachs, and often succumb to ordinary illnesses, which better-nourished people would easily survive. *Most vulnerable* Apart from the enormous toll that hunger takes in terms of human suffering, malnourishment also results in bodies being stunted and wasted and brains not developing to their full potential. Half the children born in this land continue to be malnourished, and two out of three women are anaemic, because even within families, women eat the least and only after all others have been fed. Governments so far have tended to deny starvation, and been unsuccessful in reversing malnutrition. Before the intervention of the Supreme Court in 2001, they ran many food schemes, but these were not guarantees: they could be withdrawn or reduced, and there was no obligation on the State that these schemes must cover all needy people. "Through the right to food act, the State has an opportunity to make governments responsible to reach food to all" The Supreme Court changed this, by directing that governments could not withdraw any food schemes; and that all children in schools be given hot cooked school meals, all children under six years as well as nursing and expectant mothers supplementary feeding through ICDS, and all vulnerable groups ration cards. But through the right to food act, the State has an opportunity to seize the initiative from the Courts, and instead comprehensively legislate itself tomake governments responsible to reach food to all. There are many within government, however, who would like to see a much more minimalist formulation of the State’s obligations under this law. Soon after the President announced that legislating a Right to Food Act was among the new government’s highest priorities, the Ministry of Food and Civil Supplies circulated a proposal which tried to restrict the legal obligations of governments under the proposed law only to supplying 25 kilograms a month of rice and wheat at three rupees a kilogram. This too was only for a small segment of the population, which the government deemed tobe “poor”. There was a hushed clamour that even this would cast too heavy a burden on the State treasury. But shortly after, the Chairperson of the UPA, Sonia Gandhi, seized the initiative by writing her first letter to the Prime Minister since the installation of this government, proposing a bill that much more comprehensively guarantees adequate food to people who live with hunger. Many people who are chronically denied food have been specifically detailed in the draft she recommended: such as single women, disabled and aged people, street children, bonded workers, people in casual, low paid employment including agricultural labour and rag-picking, the urban homeless, and others. *Similar initiatives* In her initiative were echoes of the luminous words of Lula da Silva, President of the Republic of Brazil, when his country launched a similar food guarantee, called “Hunger Zero”. He had pledged, “We will make it possible for people in our country to eat three square meals a day, every day, with no need for handouts from anyone.Brazil cannot go on living with so much inequity. We must overcome hunger, extreme poverty and social exclusion. Our war is not to kill anyone. It is to save lives”. The sub-title of Brazil’s Food Security Policy was equally iridescent: “Brazilians who eat helping those who don’t”. It is precisely these ethical and political convictions that India’s right to food law must draw upon if it is to rewrite history: that the first claim over the country’s resources must be of men and women, girls and boys who are the most deprived; that a right to food must impose binding obligations on the governments and people of India to exile hunger from every home; that this would involve redistribution of resources from those with privilege and means to those who are dispossessed; that necessary resources to reach food to every mouth therefore exist; and ultimately that the State must care. "The food that this law would guarantee to every person in this country must be nutritious and sufficient for an active and healthy life" The food that this law would guarantee to every person in this country must be nutritious and sufficient for an active and healthy life. It must also be assured: people should no longer have to live with agonising uncertainty of whether their loved ones or they will be able to eat tomorrow. And it should be food that they can access with dignity. A bonded worker, a child searching in rubbish heaps, and a disabled or aged man who stretches out his limbs for alms, possibly may have a full stomach, but without the dignity that every single human being is entitled to. The law must also contain penalties against public authorities who fail toreach food to hungry people. Public authorities can be punished if it proved that they killed a man in their custody. But if a child dies because State functionaries failed in their duties, none face penalties. The law would be toothless unless it changes this. *Possible ways* There are many ways in which governments under this law would have to reach food to people who are threatened with hunger. For able bodied men and women, it may be sufficient for governments to guarantee employment at decent wages in both the countryside and cities; to subsidise rice and wheat but also pulses and oilseeds; to encourage agricultural production of these foods and to procure these at reasonable prices from all farmers; and toreach food to scarcity areas. But children additionally need nutrition, through breast-feeding, in ICDS centres and schools. For children who lack adult protection, like street children, a large network of government hostels alone can secure their food. "This law can help end the suffering of watching one’s loved ones wilt, waste and die because they cannot afford healthy food" Women require maternity benefits, and nutrition support to single women. Aged people need adequate pensions, and access to free cooked food in feeding centres. And for urban migrants and homeless people, community kitchens, which offer affordable nutritious food are imperative in thousands in every city. This law can help end the suffering of watching one’s loved ones wilt, waste and die because they cannot afford healthy food. It can enable the people and governments to redeem their pledge to reach true freedom to all, by exiling hunger from every home. Several decades before Lula made his resounding moral appeal to his people in Brazil, Gandhiji too had offered us a talisman, to remind us that only those public policies are legitimate which make life better for those who are the most vulnerable and dispossessed. This law provides the chance at last to heed his counsel. Source : * The Hindu * From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 14:14:15 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:14:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS Message-ID: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, we have a bunch of reinvented hindus. They do not understand the fact that even the scriptures do not permit them to be so. therefore, please do not be shocked at these statements or provocation. because at the end of day they know it very well that given the kind of governance that we live under, they can claim such things and get away with. no one would come after them. had it been been a person from some other community, they would humiliated them (with references to their surnames or upbringing). they have taken this upon themselves that they only know what other communities are upto. and what they are doing is a mere reaction, so its allowed. let me tell you the worst part. this list has a moderator who doesnt have a say. so there is a personal request to boycott all those who have been trying to support the hardening of the sectarian identity and promote such reactionaries. it would be nice if the moderator can have a word here. -thanks anupam On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Dear Rakesh , > > I had posted a link [ www.thekashmir.wordpress.com ] and posted pictures > of > rare Hindu temples in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir . > > I do not understand why does these picture provoke somebody ? These > pictures > are for ones one imagination and understanding ..... > > Pawan > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Dear Rajen ji > > > > I don't wish to be secular, I would rather leave that to you and others > on > > the forum on their choice to be secular or not. Secondly, by stating that > > Muslims are zombies, what do you wish to convey? > > > > Infact, none of you: Pawan ji, Murali ji, Rajen ji, or Vedavati ji > (anybody > > else in this team is also welcome) have answered one simple question: > > > > Yes, the temples were destroyed by the Mughals or by other Islamic kings. > > What should we do about that? Should we repair and renovate the temples? > > Should we go and destroy mosques equal in no. to the no of temples > > destroyed? Should we kill Muslims or convert them into Hinduism by force? > > Should we rape Muslim women because Hindu women may have been raped in > the > > past? Should we declare Muslims to be 'traitors' and 'anti-nationals' and > > thereby exterminate them? Or should we declare a national policy that > > 'Muslims are not to be trusted in public space or personal relations'? Or > > something else? > > > > What should we do about that? At least come to the point. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Jul 31 14:57:39 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:57:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Articles on Right to Food In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Rakesh, Thank you for posting articles on the right to food. This follows also on the discussions initiated by Rana's excellent article on Delhi (which I appreciate very much despite my reservations about his deployment of the word 'socialism) I hope their can be fruitful discussion on these matters. And that the list will once again demonstrate that it is not willing to be monopolized by the petty and paranoiac agenda of Hindutva and Nationalism. regards Shuddha On 31-Jul-09, at 10:15 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > Having been inspired by Taha jee's constant articles on the UID, I > have > thought that we also need to pass on articles on other issues as > well. And > therefore, I have decided to post articles on the Right to Food, an > important issue which needs to be looked at. This issue is > important for > people of all religions as well, so unlike say the UID, it won't > have a bias > too. And plus of course, it's something which needs to be looked at > seriously for the huge no. of poor people in this country. > > To begin with, I post this article from livemint.com, which talks > about how > we can tackle India's hunger. I think it would be of great use for > us to > understand this issue, for it really gives them freedom from > hunger, and > makes it an entitlement for them. Combined with NREGA and RTI, it > would be > nothing short of revolutionary to achieve them. And as Pawan ji's > status msg > always says: 'The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is > ripe. You > have to make it fall'. And efforts are being made to fall the apple. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > Link: > http://www.livemint.com/2009/07/02205358/How-to-tackle-India8217s- > hu.html > How to tackle India’s hunger > As India starts legislating on food security, there is much it > could learn > from laws and practices abroad > Biraj Patnaik > > > The manifesto of the Congress party promised the enactment of a > Right to > Food Act, if the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) was voted back > to power. > A preliminary shape of such an Act has emerged in what was reported > in the > media as the very first letter from Congress president Sonia Gandhi > to Prime > Minister Manmohan Singh. The UPA government hopes to repeat through > the > passage of this Act what it had achieved during its last term > through the > National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA)—a vision for more > inclusive > governance. > > [image: Indranil Bhoumik / Mint] > > Indranil Bhoumik / Mint > > At the heart of the idea of the right to food is a very simple > premise. That > no citizen of a country should go hungry, and that each citizen > should at > all times have physical access to, or the means to acquire, adequate > nutritious food. It is time India delivered on this. > > Few countries in the world can claim to have achieved this fully, > and, till > recently, fewer still have legislated it. The reasons for this are not > difficult to comprehend. Only a handful of developed countries have > the > resources and the social commitment to welfarism to make this happen. > > Some countries, such as the US, which actually have the resources > to achieve > the goal of a country free from hunger, do not legislate it. To > them, such > socio-economic rights are seen as a throwback to the Cold War, when > the > international debates between the socialist block and the US were > on the > superiority of civil and political rights over socio-economic rights. > > But the idea of nation states guaranteeing citizens the right to > food is not > a new one. Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, > adopted > by all United Nations member states in 1948, lists among a state’s > obligation the right to food. > > Closer home, article 21 of the Constitution, which provides a > fundamental > right to life and personal liberty, has been repeatedly interpreted > by the > Supreme Court as enshrining within it the right to food. Article 47 > obliges > the Indian state to raise the standard of nutrition of its people. > > Despite this, India continues to have one of the worst track records > globally, as far as the commitment to tackle hunger and > malnutrition is > concerned. The last round of the National Family Health Survey in 2006 > confirmed that the child malnutrition rate in India is 46%, almost > double > that of sub-Saharan Africa. India, the world’s second fastest growing > economy, ranks 66th among the 88 countries surveyed by the > International > Food Policy Research Institute (Ifpri) in the Global Hunger Index > (2008), > below Sudan, Nigeria and Cameroon, and slightly above Bangladesh. > > Yet, India has also seen some of the most remarkable judicial activism > anywhere in the world on the right to food. The landmark *PUCL v. > Union of > India and others (2001)* case, better known as the right to food > case, has > seen at least 60 orders over the last eight years, and has emerged > as the > longest continuing mandamus—a legal writ where the court orders a > person or > entity to do something—in the world on the right to food. Somehow, > until > recently, this judicial activism hasn’t translated into > legislation. Now is > the opportunity for India to deliver—and learn from similar > legislation > abroad. > > Over the last few years, there has been a slew of legislation > across the > world which recognize the right to food as a fundamental right and > provide > state guarantees. > > South Africa was among the first countries in the world to explicitly > guarantee the right to food in its constitution through its Bill of > rights. > The Brazilian constitution in 1998 introduced a minimum wage to > meet basic > needs, including food; the constitution was further modified in > 2003 to > introduce the concept of social rights for every citizen, including > the > right to food. This process culminated in Brazil’s Nutritional > Security > Framework Law (Losan) in 2006, which created a set of institutions for > monitoring the right to food, and is likely to be the most lasting > legacy of > President Luiz Inacio Lula de Silva. Article 16 of the Bolivian > constitution > explicitly states, “Every person has the right to water and food. > The State > has the obligation to guarantee food security for all through healthy, > adequate and sufficient food.” Even Belarus and Moldova have clear > constitutional guarantees on the right to food. > > Argentina (2003) and Guatemala (2005) were the first South American > countries to introduce framework laws on food security, closely > followed by > Ecuador (2006) and Venezuela (2008). > > South Africa, Honduras, Peru, Nicaragua and Uganda have already > drafted > right to food legislation that is being actively considered by their > respective cabinets and parliaments. > > So what are the key lessons India can learn from this rich range of > international experience on right to food legislation and the > practice they > have been put to? > > The first key lesson is that of political commitment of the > leadership to > the idea of right to food. A case in point would be a comparison > between > South Africa and Brazil. While South Africa guaranteed the right to > food in > its constitution in 1996 through a Bill of rights, the absence of > political > will to turn this into reality means that millions of South Africans > continue their daily encounter with hunger. In stark contrast, the > determination of the Brazilian president to eliminate hunger was > evident in > his inaugural speech when he announced the “*Fome* Zero”, or “Zero > Hunger”, > programme. “We will make it possible for people in our country to > eat three > square meals a day, every day, with no need for hand-outs from > anyone.” It > is this unambiguous commitment that continues to be at the heart of > Brazil’s > battle against hunger. > > The second key lesson is convergence. The right to food cuts across > programmes of many sectors—including health, nutrition, agriculture, > livelihoods, and labour. This means that in any context, at least a > dozen > ministries will be operating programmes that have some impact on > the right. > Converging all of these under a central leadership is critical. Brazil > converged as many as 31 programmes which are now overseen by the > ministry of > food security and combating hunger. In the context of India, nine > programmes > run by five ministries, along with agencies such as the Food > Corporation of > India, are the respondents in the right to food case before the > Supreme > Court. It is imperative that our proposed legislation brings > together all > these programmes on a single converged platform. The state > government of > Delhi is currently undertaking a “Mission Convergence” with > precisely this > objective in mind. > > The third key lesson is creating a system of not just > administrative, but > also legal recourse. This is a key feature of the right to food > Acts across > countries. In Brazil, the public prosecutors’ office take up > violations of > human rights, including socio-economic rights, at the local level. > Guatemala, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Uganda and South Africa have > already put > in place or proposed powerful national commissions that act as > oversight > bodies and also have the power to impose penalties. Although the > Supreme > Court has appointed its own commissioners to monitor the food and > employment > schemes of the Indian government, these commissioners do not have > the kind > of statutory powers to impose penalties that the bodies in other > countries > do. > > The fourth key lesson is the involvement of civil society. All > countries > which have legislated the right to food have involved civil society > organizations, not just in local structures, but also in the > national-level > oversight bodies. Consea, the Brazilian council that oversees the > implementation of the right to food, has as many as 38 civil society > representatives. It is important that this engagement is not just > in letter, > but also in spirit, with governments taking civil society as > seriously as it > does its own bureaucracy and legislature. Most other countries have > also > involved civil society in the process of formulating their right to > food > legislation. > > Lastly, the key to the success of right to food legislation has been > flexibility and innovation. Uganda has proposed including the “head > of the > household” as a duty bearer, with penalties—including fines and > imprisonment—imposed for non-fulfilment of right to food > obligations within > the family. While this may not be a desirable innovation for India, > it is > specific to the national context there. Venezuela, Guatemala and > Ecuador > have a strong component of food sovereignty, with strong safeguards > against > genetically modified foods. > > The right to food Acts legislated globally are not only leading to > stronger > legal safeguards for poor and marginalized people, they are also > translating > into other policies and programmes. These include canteens in urban > areas > for the poor that serve cooked food at subsidized prices, cash > transfer > schemes, school meals, supplementary nutrition for infants, minimum > food > guarantees for labour and social security pensions. > > While there is a lot that India can learn from the global > experience, it can > also contribute uniquely to the international discourse on > legislation on > the right to food. Most of the laws mentioned above are framework > pieces of > legislation which define the broad parameters of the right to food. > The > Supreme Court has already established very detailed individual > entitlements > that are legally binding on the government. These include universal > mid-day > meals to every child studying in a government-run or aided primary > school, > nutrition, health and preschool education services through the > Integrated > Child Development Services for every child under the age of 6, > subsidized > grain to households living below the poverty line and monthly > pensions for > old people living below the poverty line. > > A Right to Food Act that weaves these legally binding entitlements > into the > text and spirit of the law will set a unique precedent globally. > Are our > lawmakers ready to take on this challenge? > > > *Biraj Patnaik is principal adviser to the Supreme Court > commissioners on > the right to food. He has been actively involved in the Right to Food > Campaign in India. The views expressed in this article are his own. > Comments > are welcome at theirview at livemint.com* > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Jul 31 15:01:15 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:01:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Tapas, This statement, below >> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like >> arundhati roy and >> tista settlewad) Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and the moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a member. best Shuddha On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: > I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum > like > Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the > law. > > > Murali V wrote: >> Vedavati, >> How right you are. >> V Murali >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi >> wrote: >> >>> pawan, >>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' >>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . >>> they are the main culprits >>> >>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, >>> give the military free hand >>> abrogate 370 >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like >>> arundhati roy and >>> tista settlewad) >>> >>> problem will be solved in no time. >>> >>> vedavati >>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: Rakesh Iyer >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur >>> To: "Murali V" >>> Cc: "reader-list" >>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM >>> >>> >>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some >>> mosques >>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian- >>> occupied >>> Kashmir)? >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> >>> >>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. >>> Check out >>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:06:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:06:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> Rakeshjee, muslims become zombies after they hear their mullas after the prayers of zumma, may be you have not seen their actions as they come out of the mosque and take laws in to their own hands, as they outnumber at that point of time after prayers, till then they are ok but these prayers which are mandatory are perhaps used to make them hate others for perceived injustice. Recent violence at Mysore well organised by "Poplar front of democracy" is headed by very secular hinds now cooling their backs in detention, all came from Kerala to foment trouble in Karnataka. The MLA, disgruntled one at that, Tanveer Sait is under scrutiny for "help" to gulp the wakf lands which led to ugly violence, with help from "secular" fronts. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pawan ji > > I have no issues with your putting pictures. But the way some people are > going about on this issue is totally horrendous. My concern is simply this: > we on this forum are simply not debating or discussing issues which are > really for the people. I don't say that temple destruction is not an issue > for the people, but to completely mix it with Muslim-bashing, is that > acceptable? > > I know I made that comment about the IOK. But what I would like to know is > that when it keeps on coming, it seems the only objective left behind on > this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are supposed to be portrayed as only > men having destructive mentality, rapists, killers, butchers or even > perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. And my point is that I don't > accept this view. > > I also asked the question to know from all whether they have some idea > behind putting such pictures or writing such views, and whether it is to > avenge the destruction of temples or renovating them or something else. You > could have simply stated the same. Of course, for the rest, it's difficult > to digest even Muslim presence I believe in this nation, forget the world of > course. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:14:37 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:14:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310244x5fc99bf9u7f2c0ba85ead1896@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh jee, for me God is within me, he is not in any temple, mosque or a church, he is same for all, names that are addressed to God may be different depending on the way followed to reach God. But to use the places of worship, for realising the faith in us, is used to hate, create hate, instead of human good is worst crime we all humans do.Unlike other faiths we do not have a particular day to show off our faith in what we trust, and that is the freedom of our faith and culture and unfortunately, followers of faith become experimental pigs to test the faith for the clergy on these days of congregation. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Tapas, > > This statement, below > > >> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like > >> arundhati roy and > >> tista settlewad) > > Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and > the moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has > contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a > code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a member. > > best > > Shuddha > > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: > > > I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum > > like > > Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the > > law. > > > > > > Murali V wrote: > >> Vedavati, > >> How right you are. > >> V Murali > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi > >> wrote: > >> > >>> pawan, > >>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > >>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > >>> they are the main culprits > >>> > >>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > >>> give the military free hand > >>> abrogate 370 > >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like > >>> arundhati roy and > >>> tista settlewad) > >>> > >>> problem will be solved in no time. > >>> > >>> vedavati > >>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Rakesh Iyer > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > >>> To: "Murali V" > >>> Cc: "reader-list" > >>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > >>> > >>> > >>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some > >>> mosques > >>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian- > >>> occupied > >>> Kashmir)? > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >>> > >>> > >>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. > >>> Check out > >>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:17:04 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:17:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Articles on Right to Food In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560907310247u3aa17411qd529fa9ff0b6045b@mail.gmail.com> Sir, is that or islamism and fanatism......! Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Rakesh, > > Thank you for posting articles on the right to food. This follows > also on the discussions initiated by Rana's excellent article on > Delhi (which I appreciate very much despite my reservations about his > deployment of the word 'socialism) > > I hope their can be fruitful discussion on these matters. And that > the list will once again demonstrate that it is not willing to be > monopolized by the petty and paranoiac agenda of Hindutva and > Nationalism. > > regards > > Shuddha > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 10:15 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > Dear all > > > > Having been inspired by Taha jee's constant articles on the UID, I > > have > > thought that we also need to pass on articles on other issues as > > well. And > > therefore, I have decided to post articles on the Right to Food, an > > important issue which needs to be looked at. This issue is > > important for > > people of all religions as well, so unlike say the UID, it won't > > have a bias > > too. And plus of course, it's something which needs to be looked at > > seriously for the huge no. of poor people in this country. > > > > To begin with, I post this article from livemint.com, which talks > > about how > > we can tackle India's hunger. I think it would be of great use for > > us to > > understand this issue, for it really gives them freedom from > > hunger, and > > makes it an entitlement for them. Combined with NREGA and RTI, it > > would be > > nothing short of revolutionary to achieve them. And as Pawan ji's > > status msg > > always says: 'The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is > > ripe. You > > have to make it fall'. And efforts are being made to fall the apple. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > > Link: > > http://www.livemint.com/2009/07/02205358/How-to-tackle-India8217s- > > hu.html > > How to tackle India’s hunger > > As India starts legislating on food security, there is much it > > could learn > > from laws and practices abroad > > Biraj Patnaik > > > > > > The manifesto of the Congress party promised the enactment of a > > Right to > > Food Act, if the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) was voted back > > to power. > > A preliminary shape of such an Act has emerged in what was reported > > in the > > media as the very first letter from Congress president Sonia Gandhi > > to Prime > > Minister Manmohan Singh. The UPA government hopes to repeat through > > the > > passage of this Act what it had achieved during its last term > > through the > > National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA)—a vision for more > > inclusive > > governance. > > > > [image: Indranil Bhoumik / Mint] > > > > Indranil Bhoumik / Mint > > > > At the heart of the idea of the right to food is a very simple > > premise. That > > no citizen of a country should go hungry, and that each citizen > > should at > > all times have physical access to, or the means to acquire, adequate > > nutritious food. It is time India delivered on this. > > > > Few countries in the world can claim to have achieved this fully, > > and, till > > recently, fewer still have legislated it. The reasons for this are not > > difficult to comprehend. Only a handful of developed countries have > > the > > resources and the social commitment to welfarism to make this happen. > > > > Some countries, such as the US, which actually have the resources > > to achieve > > the goal of a country free from hunger, do not legislate it. To > > them, such > > socio-economic rights are seen as a throwback to the Cold War, when > > the > > international debates between the socialist block and the US were > > on the > > superiority of civil and political rights over socio-economic rights. > > > > But the idea of nation states guaranteeing citizens the right to > > food is not > > a new one. Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, > > adopted > > by all United Nations member states in 1948, lists among a state’s > > obligation the right to food. > > > > Closer home, article 21 of the Constitution, which provides a > > fundamental > > right to life and personal liberty, has been repeatedly interpreted > > by the > > Supreme Court as enshrining within it the right to food. Article 47 > > obliges > > the Indian state to raise the standard of nutrition of its people. > > > > Despite this, India continues to have one of the worst track records > > globally, as far as the commitment to tackle hunger and > > malnutrition is > > concerned. The last round of the National Family Health Survey in 2006 > > confirmed that the child malnutrition rate in India is 46%, almost > > double > > that of sub-Saharan Africa. India, the world’s second fastest growing > > economy, ranks 66th among the 88 countries surveyed by the > > International > > Food Policy Research Institute (Ifpri) in the Global Hunger Index > > (2008), > > below Sudan, Nigeria and Cameroon, and slightly above Bangladesh. > > > > Yet, India has also seen some of the most remarkable judicial activism > > anywhere in the world on the right to food. The landmark *PUCL v. > > Union of > > India and others (2001)* case, better known as the right to food > > case, has > > seen at least 60 orders over the last eight years, and has emerged > > as the > > longest continuing mandamus—a legal writ where the court orders a > > person or > > entity to do something—in the world on the right to food. Somehow, > > until > > recently, this judicial activism hasn’t translated into > > legislation. Now is > > the opportunity for India to deliver—and learn from similar > > legislation > > abroad. > > > > Over the last few years, there has been a slew of legislation > > across the > > world which recognize the right to food as a fundamental right and > > provide > > state guarantees. > > > > South Africa was among the first countries in the world to explicitly > > guarantee the right to food in its constitution through its Bill of > > rights. > > The Brazilian constitution in 1998 introduced a minimum wage to > > meet basic > > needs, including food; the constitution was further modified in > > 2003 to > > introduce the concept of social rights for every citizen, including > > the > > right to food. This process culminated in Brazil’s Nutritional > > Security > > Framework Law (Losan) in 2006, which created a set of institutions for > > monitoring the right to food, and is likely to be the most lasting > > legacy of > > President Luiz Inacio Lula de Silva. Article 16 of the Bolivian > > constitution > > explicitly states, “Every person has the right to water and food. > > The State > > has the obligation to guarantee food security for all through healthy, > > adequate and sufficient food.” Even Belarus and Moldova have clear > > constitutional guarantees on the right to food. > > > > Argentina (2003) and Guatemala (2005) were the first South American > > countries to introduce framework laws on food security, closely > > followed by > > Ecuador (2006) and Venezuela (2008). > > > > South Africa, Honduras, Peru, Nicaragua and Uganda have already > > drafted > > right to food legislation that is being actively considered by their > > respective cabinets and parliaments. > > > > So what are the key lessons India can learn from this rich range of > > international experience on right to food legislation and the > > practice they > > have been put to? > > > > The first key lesson is that of political commitment of the > > leadership to > > the idea of right to food. A case in point would be a comparison > > between > > South Africa and Brazil. While South Africa guaranteed the right to > > food in > > its constitution in 1996 through a Bill of rights, the absence of > > political > > will to turn this into reality means that millions of South Africans > > continue their daily encounter with hunger. In stark contrast, the > > determination of the Brazilian president to eliminate hunger was > > evident in > > his inaugural speech when he announced the “*Fome* Zero”, or “Zero > > Hunger”, > > programme. “We will make it possible for people in our country to > > eat three > > square meals a day, every day, with no need for hand-outs from > > anyone.” It > > is this unambiguous commitment that continues to be at the heart of > > Brazil’s > > battle against hunger. > > > > The second key lesson is convergence. The right to food cuts across > > programmes of many sectors—including health, nutrition, agriculture, > > livelihoods, and labour. This means that in any context, at least a > > dozen > > ministries will be operating programmes that have some impact on > > the right. > > Converging all of these under a central leadership is critical. Brazil > > converged as many as 31 programmes which are now overseen by the > > ministry of > > food security and combating hunger. In the context of India, nine > > programmes > > run by five ministries, along with agencies such as the Food > > Corporation of > > India, are the respondents in the right to food case before the > > Supreme > > Court. It is imperative that our proposed legislation brings > > together all > > these programmes on a single converged platform. The state > > government of > > Delhi is currently undertaking a “Mission Convergence” with > > precisely this > > objective in mind. > > > > The third key lesson is creating a system of not just > > administrative, but > > also legal recourse. This is a key feature of the right to food > > Acts across > > countries. In Brazil, the public prosecutors’ office take up > > violations of > > human rights, including socio-economic rights, at the local level. > > Guatemala, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Uganda and South Africa have > > already put > > in place or proposed powerful national commissions that act as > > oversight > > bodies and also have the power to impose penalties. Although the > > Supreme > > Court has appointed its own commissioners to monitor the food and > > employment > > schemes of the Indian government, these commissioners do not have > > the kind > > of statutory powers to impose penalties that the bodies in other > > countries > > do. > > > > The fourth key lesson is the involvement of civil society. All > > countries > > which have legislated the right to food have involved civil society > > organizations, not just in local structures, but also in the > > national-level > > oversight bodies. Consea, the Brazilian council that oversees the > > implementation of the right to food, has as many as 38 civil society > > representatives. It is important that this engagement is not just > > in letter, > > but also in spirit, with governments taking civil society as > > seriously as it > > does its own bureaucracy and legislature. Most other countries have > > also > > involved civil society in the process of formulating their right to > > food > > legislation. > > > > Lastly, the key to the success of right to food legislation has been > > flexibility and innovation. Uganda has proposed including the “head > > of the > > household” as a duty bearer, with penalties—including fines and > > imprisonment—imposed for non-fulfilment of right to food > > obligations within > > the family. While this may not be a desirable innovation for India, > > it is > > specific to the national context there. Venezuela, Guatemala and > > Ecuador > > have a strong component of food sovereignty, with strong safeguards > > against > > genetically modified foods. > > > > The right to food Acts legislated globally are not only leading to > > stronger > > legal safeguards for poor and marginalized people, they are also > > translating > > into other policies and programmes. These include canteens in urban > > areas > > for the poor that serve cooked food at subsidized prices, cash > > transfer > > schemes, school meals, supplementary nutrition for infants, minimum > > food > > guarantees for labour and social security pensions. > > > > While there is a lot that India can learn from the global > > experience, it can > > also contribute uniquely to the international discourse on > > legislation on > > the right to food. Most of the laws mentioned above are framework > > pieces of > > legislation which define the broad parameters of the right to food. > > The > > Supreme Court has already established very detailed individual > > entitlements > > that are legally binding on the government. These include universal > > mid-day > > meals to every child studying in a government-run or aided primary > > school, > > nutrition, health and preschool education services through the > > Integrated > > Child Development Services for every child under the age of 6, > > subsidized > > grain to households living below the poverty line and monthly > > pensions for > > old people living below the poverty line. > > > > A Right to Food Act that weaves these legally binding entitlements > > into the > > text and spirit of the law will set a unique precedent globally. > > Are our > > lawmakers ready to take on this challenge? > > > > > > *Biraj Patnaik is principal adviser to the Supreme Court > > commissioners on > > the right to food. He has been actively involved in the Right to Food > > Campaign in India. The views expressed in this article are his own. > > Comments > > are welcome at theirview at livemint.com* > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:23:38 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:23:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam jee, different yardstick for different occassions, ......... what was your response after encounter at Jamia in Delhi.? What was your post for Afjal Guru..... ? What about the innocents like Prajna Thakur and eleven others held in custody without trial.? What was the response for Dr. Binayak Sen. ? Different actions for similar crimes by the state is not show hypocritical attitude......? If guilty punish them, but why detain without trial for some and chicken biryani in detention for some others......? Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:14 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear all, > we have a bunch of reinvented hindus. They do not understand the fact that > even the scriptures do not permit them to be so. therefore, please do not > be shocked at these statements or provocation. because at the end of day > they know it very well that given the kind of governance that we live > under, > they can claim such things and get away with. no one would come after them. > had it been been a person from some other community, they would humiliated > them (with references to their surnames or upbringing). they have taken > this > upon themselves that they only know what other communities are upto. and > what they are doing is a mere reaction, so its allowed. > let me tell you the worst part. this list has a moderator who doesnt have a > say. so there is a personal request to boycott all those who have been > trying to support the hardening of the sectarian identity and promote such > reactionaries. it would be nice if the moderator can have a word here. > -thanks > anupam > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Pawan Durani >wrote: > > > Dear Rakesh , > > > > I had posted a link [ www.thekashmir.wordpress.com ] and posted pictures > > of > > rare Hindu temples in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir . > > > > I do not understand why does these picture provoke somebody ? These > > pictures > > are for ones one imagination and understanding ..... > > > > Pawan > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Rajen ji > > > > > > I don't wish to be secular, I would rather leave that to you and others > > on > > > the forum on their choice to be secular or not. Secondly, by stating > that > > > Muslims are zombies, what do you wish to convey? > > > > > > Infact, none of you: Pawan ji, Murali ji, Rajen ji, or Vedavati ji > > (anybody > > > else in this team is also welcome) have answered one simple question: > > > > > > Yes, the temples were destroyed by the Mughals or by other Islamic > kings. > > > What should we do about that? Should we repair and renovate the > temples? > > > Should we go and destroy mosques equal in no. to the no of temples > > > destroyed? Should we kill Muslims or convert them into Hinduism by > force? > > > Should we rape Muslim women because Hindu women may have been raped in > > the > > > past? Should we declare Muslims to be 'traitors' and 'anti-nationals' > and > > > thereby exterminate them? Or should we declare a national policy that > > > 'Muslims are not to be trusted in public space or personal relations'? > Or > > > something else? > > > > > > What should we do about that? At least come to the point. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:41:14 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:41:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakeshji, It has come to a stage where the vote bank politics has taken over and the majority are on the receiving end thanks to the pseudo-secular agenda. All have been brainwashed to forget history. A hindu if he claims openly to be a hindu is considered fanatic, but the rest are taken as a right. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Rakeshjee, > muslims become zombies after they hear their mullas after the prayers of > zumma, may be you have not seen their actions as they come out of the > mosque > and take laws in to their own hands, as they outnumber at that point of > time > after prayers, till then they are ok but these prayers which are mandatory > are perhaps used to make them hate others for perceived injustice. > > Recent violence at Mysore well organised by "Poplar front of democracy" is > headed by very secular hinds now cooling their backs in detention, all came > from Kerala to foment trouble in Karnataka. The MLA, disgruntled one at > that, Tanveer Sait is under scrutiny for "help" to gulp the wakf lands > which led to ugly violence, with help from "secular" fronts. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Dear Pawan ji > > > > I have no issues with your putting pictures. But the way some people are > > going about on this issue is totally horrendous. My concern is simply > this: > > we on this forum are simply not debating or discussing issues which are > > really for the people. I don't say that temple destruction is not an > issue > > for the people, but to completely mix it with Muslim-bashing, is that > > acceptable? > > > > I know I made that comment about the IOK. But what I would like to know > is > > that when it keeps on coming, it seems the only objective left behind on > > this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are supposed to be portrayed as > only > > men having destructive mentality, rapists, killers, butchers or even > > perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. And my point is that I don't > > accept this view. > > > > I also asked the question to know from all whether they have some idea > > behind putting such pictures or writing such views, and whether it is to > > avenge the destruction of temples or renovating them or something else. > You > > could have simply stated the same. Of course, for the rest, it's > difficult > > to digest even Muslim presence I believe in this nation, forget the world > of > > course. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:47:16 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:47:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] HISTORICAL TALES - Pir Pandit Padshah Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907310317o20639592na3f0de749acc6390@mail.gmail.com> Pir Pandit Padshah The most remarkable thing about miracles is that they do sometimes happen. - G.K. Chesterton In the life of the saint, called Pir Pandit Padshah, miracles happened many times, rather, were made to happen. These miracles are not gleaned from any legend. These are a part of the history of the Valley on the lips of Hindus and Muslims. No one disbelieves them. In India, the land of mystics and occultists, these feats happen still, though few and far between. Even the puritan Muslim Emperor Aurangzeb, whose long sway over Kashmir lasted from 1659 to 1707 A.D., recognised the powers of the Hindu Pir and conferred a high title on him. To know as to in what circumstances the Emperor did so, is very interesting to the visitor to and lover of the Happy Valley. Every Kashmiri knows this part of the story, having heard it at the feet of the grandma some day, in his or her childhood. Rumour ran wild in the city of Srinagar, as it always does. Everybody asked everybody else, "Have you heard? Mulla Akhun Shah transports a most comely girl from Lahore every night." The newsmonger added, in a whisper, "She stays with him for the night. Next morning she finds herself back in her chamber in Lahore!" The intriguing hearsay reached the ears of Abu-ul-Nasar Khan, the Governor of Kashmir. Already he regarded Akhun Shah with suspicion. He had the girl traced at Lahore. She was asked to bring back some token of the place whereto she was conveyed every night by the miraculous agency. She fetched an apple with her, when, in the morning, she was back at Lahore. She said she experienced a strange sensation of being flown in the atmosphere during the night. On this confirmation, the Governor of Kashmir determined to exploit the opportunity to humble the Mulla. But his councillors desired otherwise. One of them, Fidai Khan, asked, "Subedar Sahib, have you heard of Rishi Pir ?" "Yes, the one people acclaim as Pir Pandit Padshah. To the pandits, his co-religionists, he is a Pandit. To Muslims, he is a Pir. To all of them, he is the Padshah (Badshah), the powerful Faqir, who though uncrowned has been enthroned by some saint, Pandit Krishan Ji Kar. We have heard he is a miracle worker." "Precisely", agreed Fidai Khan, "It is he who hops the Mulla with this black magic kidnappings of girls. Akhun Shah is largely innocent. It is his master, Rishi Pir, falsely styled 'Pir Pandit Padshah', who gives him all his powers. You must have heard how Akhun Shah came to accept the Pir as his master? "No, we have not, for we were away in suppressing the turbulent Chaks. Do tell us." "One day", narrated Fadai Khan, "Mulla Akhun invited Rishi Pir and his disciples, numbering hundreds, to a feast, holding that when he talked so much of the oneness of God, he should accept a Muslim's invitation. The Pir consented, saying, We will come, on one condition. Nobody must taste the edibles before we and our disciples eat'. On the fixed day, the Pir and other guests sat down to the feast. The covers were taken off the plates. Lo! an astounding metamorphosis of the dishes and other viands took place, as Rishi Pir threw a libation on his plate. Rice was converted into paddy plants, vegetables into respective plants, mutton into sheep that stood up in life and so on! A one-legged cock crowed and hobbled towards the Pir, who addressed the amazed Mulla, 'Look, someone has tasted the leg of this fowl. Our wager has been broken. We will not eat'. The head cook was called. He confessed to having tasted a leg of the fowl. The Pir and his disciples rose and departed. From that day the Akhun recognised the Pir as his master". "Oh! is it?" the Subedar expressed surprise. "Yes, Subedar Sahib, it was the talk of the town. I advise you to curb the rising power and influence of this saint-Padshah." Abu-ul-Nasar Khan thought over the proposition. He remembered the words of his father, Shaista Khan (the maternal uncle of Emperor Aurangzeb) spoken to him at Delhi, "Son, don't prove an unsuccessful Subedar of Kashmir like your brother, Muzarffar Khan, whom Alamgir called back only after two years. Rule with an iron hand. Don't allow any Kashmiri to become more powerful than he may reasonably be." He sent for Qazi Abul Karim and his preceptor, Mir Hussain Sabzwari. The latter, a faqir who gave himself airs of more spirituality than he possessed, was especially jealous of Rishi Pir, ever since Kashmiris started presenting him tributes as if he were a king. When Sabzwari incited the Subedar against Rishi Pir, like Fidai Khan, the Qazi, more sagacious, agreed with him to an extent; but he added: "Subedar Sahib, twenty years back in Ramzan 1086 (December 1675) the Great Fire of Srinagar, which destroyed twelve thousand houses of Srinagar, was at once brought under control, when Rishi Pir had one of his wooden sandals thrown into the fire. The Emperor heard of this when he visited Srinagar and sent the Pir presents. May be, the Emperor still honours him like that". "That is exactly what must be stopped", remarked the Governor. "No Kashmiri must grow too powerful for me. We shall send a special messenger to Alamgir, telling him all about this disgraceful rumour which we have confirmed. We would tackle the Pir ourselves but we are, to be frank, afraid of the people's reaction. Don't you think when the Emperor hears the tale he will teach the Pir a good lesson?" Mir Hussain and Khan agreed. ----------------- "Strange but true", spoke Alamgir Aurangzeb in his serious tone, "here come reports from Kashmir Governor against a faqir whom we have respected". "Which faqir, Sire? asked Shaista Khan. "Rishi Pir, also known as Pir Pandit Padshah. We met him when we visited Kashmir". Aurangzeb, in his usual secretive way, told him and the courtiers only a part of the contents of the Kashmir letter. Shaista Khan understood that his son was acting on the instructions that he had given him. He astutely corroborated his son's desire that "the haughty and powerful Pir ought to be summoned to Delhi in the presence of Alamghir." A rich Kashmir trader was present in the court. He begged permission to speak. The Emperor granted it. "Sire", the trader addressed the Alamgir with folded hands, "Rishi Pir is a very great saint, the like of whom I have not found in the many countries of Asia that I have travelled. Last year I was returning from Constantinople. A storm rose. It appeared that the ship was about to be sunk. I was perturbed, for most of the cargo belonged to me". Raising his hands, he added: "After praying to Allah, I somehow, remembered Rishi Pir, for I had heard of his beneficent miracles. In my prayer, I made a pledge that I would pay a tithe of my profit as tribute to the throned faqir. The storm, believe me, Sire, bated as soon as I opened my eyes. We found ourselves near the safe shore. The weather cry eked. We were saved. "When, Sire, I reached Srinagar, I forgot to fulfill my mental pledge to Rishi Pir. Imagine my self-consciousness when I accosted him one day in a street. All at once I remembered and felt inwardly guilty. He pointed at me with his raised forefinger and said, 'Look at my shoulder' - taking up the Pheran from his neck -'there is the mark of a wound on it which I sustained on the day when I pulled your ship ashore, and, you, good man, quite forgot your promise to a faqir ! Is that like a Musalman ?’ "Sire, I trembled from head to foot. I folded my hands, even as I do now, begging pardon for the delay. Next day, I presented the pledged tithe to Rishi Pir. There raged a famine in the city at the time. He had provisions purchased with the money - which ran over a thousand mohurs - and distributed it among the destitute folk, Hindus and Muslims." The Emperor and the courtiers heard the trader with rapt attention. They were all impressed, except the calculating Shaista Khan, who was preoccupied with maintenance of the prestige of the Subedar of Kashmir, his second son. He wanted to speak, but, Souf Khan, a former Governor of Kashmir, forestalled him: "Sire, Rishi Pir is truly a very great faqir. In the year of our Prophet, 1079 (1668 A.D.) my elephant ran amuck in Srinagar. The mad elephant worked havoc in the city. There was panic everywhere. Shops were closed. People, hither and thither, driven like flies before the wind. The elephant crossed the path of Rishi Pir. His Hindu disciples and Muslim admirers fled in all directions-but not he! He raised his hand, and lo! the elephant came to a standstill, crouching down before him. From that day, Sire, I paid the tribute myself to this great Kashmir Pandit saint." "Allah! Great Allah !" exclaimed the courtiers, "this is no ordinary mortal." "True, true", agreed the Emperor, "but what does the present report signify?" "That, Sire", put in Shaista Khan at the opportune moment, "this Pir is misusing his powers already. He is a unique enthroned saint. His powers may whet his ambition. He may become dangerous to the outpost of Moghul Empire". "We are inclined to agree", said the Emperor, "We will summon Rishi Pir. At least we will be enlightened with more facts. Jaswant Singh, issue a farman commanding the audience of Rishi Pir in the Moghul Court of Delhi" . Subedar Abuul-Nasar Khan anxiously awaited his messenger back from Delhi. Weeks passed and rolled into months. He had provided the messenger the completest and most speedy means of transport at every stage of the difficult journey which was especially hazardous between the Kashmir frontier and Srinagar. Meanwhile, the prestige of Rishi Pir continued to increase. People were enamoured of his mystic, attractive personality. Not only did they call him ‘Pit Pandit Padshah', they also spoke of him as the "Saviour who eases every difficulty". He did perform miracles like a prophet in aiding suffering humanity. A Muslim middle-aged woman, rich but barren, appealed to Rishi Pir to remove the curse on her which made her husband so unhappy. "What has a fagir to do with your progeny?" he asked her. "Sire, Pir Pandit Padshah relieves every adversity of every man, wherefore I beg you my boon." She fell at his feet, weeping. "Stand up, sister", he said to her in assumed anger, "get away. Throw away all your ornaments in the Vitasta when you cross Zaina Kadal. Allah will help you!" The woman left. She flung her ornaments, but, out of her costly jewellery, she preserved a priceless pearl. In due time a son was born to her. But he was blind of one eye! With the customary people's tribute of eleven and a half fractions of many things, she repaired her way to Pir Pandit Padshah. She expressed her gratefulness, but complained of the one eye of which her son was bereft. "Why did you preserve a pearl out of the ornaments, you lover of ornaments?" the Pir questioned her. "Go away and drop that pearl in the river." She cast away the precious pearl. Her sons's eye was restored! The people heard of this. So did the Governor, who burned to see Rishi Pir growing immensely popular - a formidable rival, he thought, as he was reminded time and again of the admonition of Shaista Khan, and, he realised that Kashmiris, Hindus and Muslims, were united in the growing spirit of resistance against tyranny; Rishi Pir gave an indirect subtle lead to this national sentiment. Every citizen came to know how Rishi Pir, for the sake of his aged mother/brought' the water of Har Mukat Ganga to the Jhelum ghat of his mohalla, Batyar. When Kashmiri pilgrims went to Har Mukat Ganga, she said to her son, Rishi Pir, that she desired to bathe in the holy mountain lake of Ganga Bal. He pointed out, "Mother, you are aged and infirm, you cannot undertake the risky journey. However, you may give one of your bracelets to our Puroohat who is going there and ask him to drop it in the lake at the time of the holy bath". She did so. On the day, when pilgrims bathe in Ganga Bal bake, after dropping over the ashes of the dead, Rishi Pir said to his mother, "Mother, go to Batyar ghat and have your morning bath". She went and there, to her wonderment, she saw the bracelet floating in the Jhelum water ! Har Mukat Ganga had 'come' to her own ghat ! Her life's ambition was fulfilled, as she bathed in the ice-cold water. Shortly after, she died. Rishi Pir was smitten with grief at the loss of one who had suffered much for his sake, in bringing him up as an orphan boy. He went on a fast for many days. At this juncture did the messenger of the Subedar return from Delhi, having been delayed by inclement weather on the road to Kashmir. He was accompanied by a courier and a company of soldiers, who had the summons for Rishi Pir. The Subedar was overjoyed at the success of his scheme. He deputed an additional unit of soldiers to carry out the Emperor's farman. The soldiers spread a cordon around the house of Rishi Pir while the courier went inside to serve the summons. There was panic in Batyar. The Pathan soldiers did not allow the people to gather anywhere. They ejected the hero-worshipping people from Rishi Pir's house. Rishi Pir was left with his two chief disciples, Pandit Nana Joo and Pandit Atma Ram. He heard Alamgir's courier over a cup of special Kashmiri tea that he had during fasts. His eyes were bloodshot with anger, but, retaining his poise with a supreme effort, he allowed a smile to play across his lips. To the courier, he said, "Your Emperor desires us to start on the long and hazardous journey as soon as the farman is read out. This is late afternoon now. We must make preparations." "Yes, Pir," said the blunt Pathan. "You get ready. We'll leave tomorrow morning". The soldiers' cordon continued as tight as it was. Others dispersed the mob; of people, who protested against the incarceration of their Pir. ----------------- Emperor Aurangzeb was in bed. He was a light sleeper, for he was always alert, suspicious of everybody. He heard a sound, a low thud in the chamber. Quickly, he sat up and lighted several candles with the one that was burning at the side of his pillow. What did he see ? There, before him, was Rishi Pir, riding - a leopard ! "Rishi Pir ! At this hour ?" he asked, clearing his throat with difficulty. "Your Majesty called me", Rishi Pir replied mockingly, in Persian. "Oh, yes! First please send away the fearful leopard - we will talk". Rishi Pir dismounted. The leopard disappeared ! "You are a great, pious, God-fearing Emperor", casually remarked Rishi Pir. "People may call me Pir Pandit Padshah and pay me tribute of their love. For their sake, I use the royal 'we' in my talk with them. But I am a faqir after all. Why do you injure a faqir's feelings ?" "We are sincerely sorry", replied the Emperor in a penitential tone. "You are great. You have vouchsafed us a new vision. You are the ‘Emperor of Both Worlds'. I bestow that title upon you, great Pandit". "But, Sire", sarcastically spoke Rishi Pir, "your mustachioed soldiers have besieged my poor cottage". "No, no, we don't want your attendance at court now." "And, the proof?" "Here and now, we will write a new farman". Fo a Emperor looked about- he found pen and paper, but not an ink pot. To himself, he said, "Where is the inkpot ? I had placed one here". "Sire, blood is used as ink in an emergency." "Yes, yes, you are right, 'Emperor of the Both Worlds' ", the emperor hustled as he pricked the index finger of his left hand for blood. Not much blood came out of the shrunken frame. He collected the drops on a tray and wrote a farman, revoking the previous one. He addressed Rishi Piras "Emperor of Both Worlds" and commanded the Subedar of Kashmir to personally pay an annual tribute to the Pir. He then sealed the farman with his signet ring. The leopard reappeared with another thud. Rishi Pir rode the spotted fierce-looking beast and vanished... The outspoken Pathan knocked at the door of Pir Pandit Padshah next morning. The two disciples, who were still there, asked the courier to take a seat. He would not sit down. He was about to walk, with shoes on, towards Rishi Pir's throne, when the Pir shouted at him, "Foolish Pathan, know your manners!" The ring of the voice stunned the courier. He stopped short. "Here is your Emperor's new farman", added Rishi Pir. A disciple handed over the envelope to the courier. He was amazed as he saw the mark of the signet ring of the emperor. He looked at it once again, in great bewilderment. He opened the envelope carefully, and read -Allah, what was it all? He retreated, bowed low, and lower still, before Rishi Pir, saying, "Emperor of Both Worlds, forgive me. I was doing my duty". "We have eyes to see that. Now go to the Subedar. We want to have a chat with him". The news of the incredible miracle spread like wild fire. People, Hindus and Muslims, were happy that Rishi Pir's honour was vindicated. And, now Pir Pundit Padshah was "Emperor of Both Worlds!" This triumph symbolised the end of tyranny. Mulla Shah came with his disciples and expressed his increased admiration of and gratefulness to the great Pir. So did hundreds of noblemen and commoners, Hindu and Muslim alike. Rishi Pir just smiled at them. ---------------------------- Abu-ul-Nasar Khan was very much disappointed when the courier showed him the Emperor's second farman. Reluctantly, he, accompanied by Fidai Khan, went to Pir Pundit Padshah in the afternoon. He saw the Batyar locality bustling with excited, happy people who shouted slogans in praise of Pir Pundit Padshah, "Emperor of Both Worlds", "Reliever of Every Difficulty", and so on. They knew of the intrigue of Mir Hussain Sabzwari and, therefore, they asked the Subedar to make Sabzwari quit Kashmir. Consequently, the bogus saint himself fled. Rishi Pir smiled as the Governor bowed deferentially. He pointed him to a pillowed seat near him. The Governor presented a huge regal tribute in obedience to the Emperor's command. While they talked formally, in came a disciple of Rishi Pir and addressed him, "Pir Pandit Padshah, my mother is dead! Help me!" "What help, Nanak Shah?" questioned Rishi Pir, "Your mother was old. It is good she is dead at a ripe age. Console yourself". "Sire, you are the reliever of every difficulty of man. You are the Emperor of Both Worlds. You command both this and the next world. Help me, Pir Pundit Padshah, I can't live without my mother!" Rishi Pir mused for a few moments. "Nanak Shah, the predestined span of life can be changed only one way", he proposed. "Will you sacrifice the years of your own life that you want your mother to live?" "Yes, Sire." "How many?" "Fourteen". "All right, Nanak Shah", commanded Rishi Pir, "go to your home. Break fourteen water chestnuts under her pillow". Nanak Shah did as he was told. Lo! the spring of life returned to his erstwhile dead mother. She was alive! The Subedar, or the others who succeeded him, presented the yearly tribute to Pir Pundit Padshah. More and more miracles in relief of the unhappy and the suffering fetched him added renown. In Batyar, in Srinagar, there is the shrine of Rishi Pir whither repair men in the straits of life; they touch a sandal of the Pir, the only memento left- the other one was thrown in the Great Fire of Srinagar - and pay the tribute. So did every Governor of Kashmir, annually, until the late forties of this century. Source: Tales of Kashmir by Somnath Dhar From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 15:54:18 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:54:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Book Review - K.L. Choudhary's 'Of Gods, men and militants' Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907310324g66f269e6t389a04778389c83f@mail.gmail.com> Dr. Kundan Lal Chowdhury http://ikashmir.net/poets/klchowdhury.html Kundan Lal Chowdhury was born in Srinagar, the geographical , administrative and political heart of the valley of Kashmir, a few years before India gained its independence from the British and thus grew up in an era of optimism, constructive planning and hope. His parental home in Srinagar was in a locality which is 99.9% Muslim, where his family was one of the few Hindu families. He grew up amongst Muslim childhood friends from families ranging in circumstances from poor to the well connected, the politically savvy and the financially well off. He studied in mixed, secular schools like his siblings. Prejudice was largely absent and both mother and father were accepted by all and sundry in the Muslim community as friends and advisors on a wide range of issues. Dr. K. L. Chowdhury As a poet Kundan Lal Chowdhury is concerned with the universal human concerns in a world dominated by big power, big money and big guns. The book must be read in a universal context of our times embracing the historical mistakes which are being repeated again as well as new problems unique to these times . The anguished cry of the oppressed and the exiled is as relevant in Africa or Europe or North America or the middle East as it is in Kashmir. It speaks both for the oppressed and the oppressor communities. For there are many in both who lament the destruction of their universe. Featured Collections Of Gods, Men & Militants This book of poetry gives expression to the intense hurt, sadness, disappointment, shock and disillusionment of a whole community. Only a son of the soil like Kundan Lal Chowdhury, could provide the right voice for these emotions and thoughts.  >>> http://ikashmir.net/godsmenmilitants/index.html K.L. Choudhary's 'Of Gods, men and militants' By Dwarkanath Munshi So much has been said , written, discussed and debated about Kashmir over the last decade and more that one might mistake this volume as one more of the same. But it takes just a casual first glance over the anthology of poems to realise that nothing could be farther from the truth. And as one proceeds one gets hooked to the narration which is straight, sincere and intense, raising  poignant images before your eyes. Picture that night, dark and still, and cold as never before. That silence was eerie, piercing like in a graveyard in the wilderness. The air was filled with foreboding. The instinct was ill at ease fearing the unseen and the unknown like ghosts around breathing and whispering and whistling. Then all of a sudden, doom descended . Some eighty thousand loud speakers came alive at a single blaring across the valley the first message of doom in stern and steady tone. “Leave your home O’ Kafir  leave your young women behind and run for your life’’. That night changed the world. Kashmir can never get over that night -like a house burnt, a garden uprooted , a virgin defiled ,a limb sundered , a friend betrayed. It can never be the same again. Time moves, mollifies, but the pain remains, and in a sensitive mind it grows. Dr. Chowdhary’s poems are the outpourings of that pain, that indelible impress which assails the author, from time to time, from place to place, and flows out through his pen. This has gone on for a whole ten years till he feels overwhelmed by nostalgia and is alternately hopeful and prayerful for return to his sacred loved soil of beauty and peace, brotherhood and cultural synthesis as it was and is no more This is the essence of the Anthology, presented in three sections, each within its chronology. Thus you open with the Gathering Storm, move to the most heart rending and tragic phase of  Exodus and Exile and conclude with the deep longing, in the third section, for return from rootlessness to Mother Kasheer. Within this compass are the poems that spread before the reader the beauty and enchantment of Kashmir and alongside powerfully moving dirges on the tempests which have shaken our age, the desolation and destruction wrought by the mindless ‘jehadis’ and ‘fidayeen’ the terrorists who ironically are deluded to believe they are working for bringing the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ down on earth. The beauty and the pathos seize the reader from the very first poem. I quote: ‘’The mists dance around you lord Siva four seasons through......... ensconced on top of the Shankaracharya hill’’. A few stanzas later ‘’The mists gently glide and slide as they deftly seek to hide the ravages .......... littering , Phelgam, excreta’’ and elsewhere again ‘’O where is the lingering mist that your feet did kiss where the cool breeze that fanned your brow’’. Such quiet cries of anguish are eloquent in effect and even assume a shrillness by the nature of the trauma. Of bestiality at the Wandahama massacre of the whole Pandit population, the poet grieves with tearful irony: the occasion was the fanatics ‘ holy Shaba Qadar, of night long prayers for peace and piety. They marked it with butchering the entire 23 Pandit population-babies, men, women. Asks the poet with a bleeding heart- what drove the fanatics ‘’to pump eighteen bullets into the tender constitution of a tiny kid .........when a single would have done ‘’? If it is pain and tears here, he gives vent to his deep anger in cutting satire are another place, when he describes the madness and misery of misanthropy and munificence in the inverse between the migrant and the militant in the following verses: Here a migrant stands in a queue in this blazing afternoon sun for his monthly allocation- three hundred and seventy five rupees & kilo sugar.......... A few lines later: And yonder in that prison is detained a terrorist called militant who receives four fifty a month, milk mutton........ overseen and monitored by human rights groups........ Asks his victim the migrant why don’t I turn a Militant If only for a better deal. One can go on and on and find that the Anthology is not only scholastic but in the main it is a chronicle of human tragedy both on the part of the perpetrators and the victims. The human angle dominates at every point. It goes to the credit of the author who is an eminent physician and no poet by profession or training that he has written it all under an urge kindled within him, by the suddenly rapid and unforeseen transitions of human behaviour. It thus bears the stamp of spontaneity and freshness. All through the Anthology he has sought and succeeded in avoiding the imitation of any style or language or versification. Whatever the quality of it, that is properly his own and is engaging. He has also not permitted the words to divert or diminish the attention of the reader from the original purpose or interest he has succeeded in creating. He has simply clothed his thoughts in what he thought was most appropriate language. Having said that much about “Of Gods, Men and Militants’’ one feels like going beyond its limits with the hope that the excesses and insanity depicted in it are gradually yielding place to better sense and sanity. The extreme madness which manifested itself on September 11 (2001) from the scene of the anthology, and on October 1 and December 13 last year, awoke the world at large to the barbarity of the demented soldiers of faith deluded by fundamentalists of fraud. There appears a reflux of the tide. A ray of light is gaining ground and a feeling and belief is growing that whole generations of mankind ought not to be consigned to a hopeless inheritance of ignorance and misery and that a secure haven might emerge when  the storms are exhausted and past. A volume of verses dedicated to that hope and happening would be a memorable reward to Dr. Chowdhary. Source: Kashmir Sentinel, From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 16:07:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:07:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic kings indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab indulge in unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, have been tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, murderers, rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly condemned. As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims never asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress like other human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other planets, they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs as all others. Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. Neither has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of being a 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly atrocious and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper evidence points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being insulted, deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it continues among members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always victimized, Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are always killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in their own country...blah...blah...blah... Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think about issues in their context. I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in their personal relations, and then see how their own family members and friends behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining about these 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same manner. What do these 'victims' expect me to do then? From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 31 16:07:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:37:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Financial Sector Reforms and UIDAI - 175 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907310337m3b50f3br839e142e4624ecf@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=51315 Financial Sector Reforms and UIDAI Lok Sabha The High Level Committee on Financial sector Reforms set up by Planning Commission has made wide ranging recommendations on a number of issues including macro-economic framework, broadening access to finance, levelling the playing field, creating more efficient markets, a growth-friendly regulatory environment and a robust infrastructure for credit. There are a total of thirty-five proposals identified by the Committee. Action has already been taken on some of these proposals which include freeing banks to set up ATMs anywhere, providing subsidies/cash transfers to the poor electronically under certain Government Schemes, liberalising the banking correspondent model so that a wide range of local agents can extend financial services and setting up a Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) for creating unique national ID number for all citizens of the country. This information was given by Minister of State for Finance, Shri Namo Narain Meena in written reply to a question raised in Lok Sabha today. BSC/BY/GN-286/09 From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 31 16:11:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:41:51 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Infosys to bid for UID projects; nobody to succeed Nilekani- 177 Message-ID: <65be9bf40907310341p563bb9b0r5747b8c9c2cd0210@mail.gmail.com> Why is anyone not doing anything about it? It is just amazing.... http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2444433/ Infosys to bid for UID projects; nobody to succeed Nilekani Tue. July 28, 2009; Posted: 12:13 AM Bangalore, Jun 26, 2009 (Asia Pulse Data Source via COMTEX) -- INFY | Quote | Chart | News | PowerRating -- Infosys Technologies on Friday said it would bid for multi-crore rupee projects under the Unique Identification Database Authority, which would be headed by the company?s former co-chairman Nandan Nilekani, as it sees no conflict of interest. Ending speculations on who would succeed Nilekani, Infosys CEO Kris Gopalakrishnan also told the mediapersons that nobody is slated at present to fill Nilekani?s shoes and the former co-chairman?s responsibilities would get distributed among the brass. A day after the Centre announced Nilekani?s appointment in the rank of a Cabinet minister, Gopalakrishnan said the outgoing co-chairman had been handling some customers and was involved in brand initiatives and heading strategic teams. ?So, it (Nilekani?s responsibilities) will get distributed to other leaders in the company. Nobody is at present slated to be the co-chairman. So, it will get distributed to all of us,? Gopalakrishnan said, The NASDAQ-listed company also said it Infosys had handled transitions in the past seamlessly and was confident of doing so this time also given its depth of leadership. Gopalakrishnan said Infosys would bid for projects under UIDAI like any other e-governance projects, but saw no conflict of interest though the authority would be headed by a former company top executive. For full details on Infosys Technologies Limited ADS (INFY) click here. Infosys Technologies Limited ADS (INFY) has Short Term PowerRatings of 5. Details on Infosys Technologies Limited ADS (INFY) Short Term PowerRatings is available at This Link. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 16:12:16 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:12:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Zombie Muslims after Zumma prayers Message-ID: Dear Rajendra Bhatt The recent Mysore riot started when a pig carcass was thrown into a mosque - do you think that the Muslim would have become zombies that they brought in the pig into their own mosque.... See the links below about who is stoking the fire of hatred: http://www.theindianherald.com/2009/07/three-killed-in-communal-riot-in-mysore.html http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/bjp-turns-karnataka-into-gujarat-hindutva-riots-leave-many-dead-961485.htm http://communalism.blogspot.com/2009/02/karnataka-bastian-of-hindutva.html J On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > Rakeshjee, >   muslims become zombies after they hear their mullas after the prayers of > zumma, may be you have not seen their actions as they come out of the mosque > and take laws in to their own hands, as they outnumber at that point of time > after prayers, till then they are ok but these prayers which are mandatory > are perhaps used to make them hate others for perceived injustice. > > Recent violence at Mysore well organised by "Poplar front of democracy" is > headed by very secular hinds now cooling their backs in detention, all came > from Kerala to foment trouble in Karnataka. The MLA, disgruntled one at > that, Tanveer Sait is under scrutiny for "help" to gulp the wakf lands > which led to ugly violence, with help from "secular" fronts. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> Dear Pawan ji >> >> I have no issues with your putting pictures. But the way some people are >> going about on this issue is totally horrendous. My concern is simply this: >> we on this forum are simply not debating or discussing issues which are >> really for the people. I don't say that temple destruction is not an issue >> for the people, but to completely mix it with Muslim-bashing, is that >> acceptable? >> >> I know I made that comment about the IOK. But what I would like to know is >> that when it keeps on coming, it seems the only objective left behind on >> this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are supposed to be portrayed as only >> men having destructive mentality, rapists, killers, butchers or even >> perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. And my point is that I don't >> accept this view. >> >> I also asked the question to know from all whether they have some idea >> behind putting such pictures or writing such views, and whether it is to >> avenge the destruction of temples or renovating them or something else. You >> could have simply stated the same. Of course, for the rest, it's difficult >> to digest even Muslim presence I believe in this nation, forget the world of >> course. >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 16:14:28 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:14:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee Who asked you to give the permission to feed chicken biryani to Afzal Guru? You should have rejected the permission there and then itself na? Or did Manmohan feed it first to him and then tell you about it? Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 16:18:56 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:18:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate with what one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but don't force them to change. They take it at their ego' Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and others of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or criticizing them. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 16:22:12 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:22:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Infosys to bid for UID projects; nobody to succeed Nilekani- 177 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907310341p563bb9b0r5747b8c9c2cd0210@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40907310341p563bb9b0r5747b8c9c2cd0210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha jee I have one doubt about this. The Central Govt has allocated Rs. 120 crore for this scheme in this year's financial budget. As of now, the mandate is to prepare a national database for the entire nation and give a unique identity no. to all. My friend has stated that as of now, there is no scheme or mandate in the budget to prepare the card. Is this true? And does this mean that there will be no making of the card scheme? Because if that is true, then the huge costs being estimated are bogus, and the scheme would only require making a national database, and giving an identity no., which would be present on every card one makes, and which is useful especially in things like maintaining employment records and other entitlements the govt. is supposed to provide, mainly for the poor. Awaiting your reply. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jul 31 16:59:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:29:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Infosys to bid for UID projects; nobody to succeed Nilekani- 177 In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40907310341p563bb9b0r5747b8c9c2cd0210@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40907310429j441b5753j8be08752b7954910@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Thank you for your mail. I must say that your point is pertinent. If Nandu were to just distribute numbers to all Indians against a measly 120 crore rupees appropriated to UIDAI then perhaps there would have been no issue at all. I would thank GOI for such a brilliant initiative, take my number and go home. But you tell me would a Bill Gates come to India to participate in a mere 120 crore project, would these Israelis with their -domain expertize- be hawking their wares, would NxP be opening its second largest semi conductor division in the world near Bangalore, would consortium of european companies be holding these business seminars and networking events for a measly 120 crore rupees, would Bartronics stock be jumping and leaping so much on the stock market? The GOI moves in mysterious ways. 1.5 lakh crore are being offered according to a TOI report. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/Citizen-IDs-to-cost-Rs-15-lakh-crore/articleshow/4703794.cms If this is a spin story, we do not know, we do not know whether a GOI source or a Home ministry official will deny or not comment to a question directed towards the sarkaari expenditure for UIDAI. Moreover we do not know what happens to the information, reports, surveys, data, garnered during the MNIC era. What happens to that? What happens to MNIC centers established in all 12 states and one UT? What happens to more than 550 crore spent on pilot projecting? What happens to the fingerprints taken from these people? Is the GOI safeguarding it? or Are they released in the market? It may happen though, because GOI regularly releases used furniture in the market, so who knows? We really do not know, neither do we have any idea of what is the bureaucratic structure around UIDAI is going to be nor for that matter we know about actual legal statutory brief of Nandu and party? UIDAI must be a political authority not like quasi dictatorial one as it seems to be right now, which is headed by a man who has no political obligation, no answer-ability to the people of India. Warm regards Taha From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:08:02 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:08:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Job Opening for the Mathematics Project at the XRCVC, St. Xavier's College, Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Neha Trivedi Date: 2009/7/31 Subject: Job Opening for the Mathematics Project at the XRCVC, St.Xavier's College, Mumbai Are you someone who finds numbers, equations and calculations the most fascinating part in the world around us? Did you always have a blank look when someone said mathematics is the most traumatic subject of study? Did you always think, if only I can find a way to teach you then may be you will think differently? Do you now want to add an extra twist to this tale?* What if someone asked you, are you interested in teaching mathematics to visually challenged students?* If this has kept your curiosity please read on. *About Us* The Xavier’s Resource Centre for the Visually Challenged (XRCVC) is a specialized support and advocacy centre for the visually challenged located at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai. Our work is driven by challenging myths, breaking barriers and finding new solutions where none existed before. To know more about us you can visit our website www.xrcvc.org *Who are we looking for?* Traditionally school systems have discouraged visually challenged students from learning mathematics. This leads them to be put to a disadvantage in later years of their lives in pursuing higher education needing mathematics as a base. Over last one year the XRCVC has worked with mathematics training for competitive exams and has successfully had its students clearing entrance examinations for higher education courses in Management, Social Work etc. We are ready to now launch a full fledged mathematics project and are looking for full time/part time professionals to take on the same. The role of the person would include a combination of these roles - Awareness work with visually impaired persons, caregivers and schools about the necessity of mathematics training. - Training and coaching of visually challenged students – school, college, and entrance exam batches. - Creating of accessible material in mathematics. If any or all of these tasks seem interesting to you and you want to explore this job please get in touch with us latest by *19th August 2009* at the details given below. If you are interested but a doubt has sprung in your mind ‘I’d love to do this, but I don’t know anything about how to teach the blind’ we would say contact us. The ‘How’ is our responsibility, once you are keen the how will be taken care of by us Look forward to hearing from you. Remuneration would be on par with qualifications and experience and part time/full time nature of the assignment Contact Person: Dr Sam Taraporevala / Ms Neha Trivedi Contact Details: XRCVC, St. Xavier’s College, 5 Mahapalika Marg, Mumbai 400001 022-22623298/22626329 info at xrcvc.org Regards Neha Trivedi Project Consultant XRCVC www.xrcvc.org P.S: Please circulate this to people and forums who might be interested. From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Jul 31 17:04:00 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:04:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: References: <5c5369880907310002q4b4483aas8e46a078c01a53b@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> Dear Rakesh, dear all Rakesh, I don't know who you are, but I would like to thank you for the great job that you are doing in response to yet another assault on our reason from the same quarters. When all else fails. Our holy hindu warriors bring out the tired trick of the charge of iconoclasm. We have been here many times before. Some time ago (September -November 2007, and January 2008) this list went through a great deal of turbulence regarding the one sided dishing out of a so called history of iconoclasm in Kashmir. Since the list has a working online archive, it is quite easy to revisit these debates. I enclose the links below for the perusal of readers such as yourself, who may have joined the list, subsequent to these exchanges. 1. Kalhan, Parihaspura and Komal Gandhar, September 6, 2007 http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-September/010200.html 2. I wrote a series of postings titled 'Annotations to the History of Iconoclasm in Kashmir, Parts I-IV' which appeared serially, on the night of Diwali, November 2007 on the Reader List. The links to them are as follows http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011030.html http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011031.html http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011032.html http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011033.html In January, in response to a rebuttal of my arguments made in the November four part set of postings. I wrote another post. Iconoclasm and a Quest for Hired Limousines - January 24, 2008 http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-January/011873.html I am just forwarding the links to things I wrote, but many others participated vigourously (and in many cases perceptively, thoughtfully and with good deal of good humour) in these debates, as will be evident by following the trails of the relevant threads in the archives. Some of you who may be new to the list may be shocked at some of the distinctly xenophobic, communal and hate filled statements made by some list members in some of the recent postings. You may also be wondering why they are not taken on. Well, partly because many of us have done this before. And because the list has an archive, we do not need to do it again and again. But the list itself has a long memory. These statements, each one of them, have been wrestled with before. And the hate-mongers have never been able to answer the criticisms levelled at them. Hence their tactic, of repetition, exhausting, monotonous, boring repetition. All you need to do is to look at the archive. They have lost the most important social battles in this country. They are an exhausted, spent, defeated force. Their leadership is self-destructing before our very eyes. All that they have is a lot of time to waste on their keyboards. What they do not understand is that every time they make a hateful jibe, they lose more ground. But keep the good fight going, and the best way to do that is by talking, also, of many things other than what exercises the spent imaginations of the partisans of Hindutva and hardline nationalism. best Shuddha On 31-Jul-09, at 4:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic > kings > indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab > indulge in > unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, > have been > tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, murderers, > rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly > condemned. > > As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister > organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims > never > asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress > like other > human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other > planets, > they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs > as all > others. > > Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. > Neither > has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of > being a > 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly > atrocious > and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper > evidence > points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being > insulted, > deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. > > This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it > continues among > members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always > victimized, > Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are always > killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in > their own > country...blah...blah...blah... > > Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think about > issues in their context. > > I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in their > personal relations, and then see how their own family members and > friends > behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining > about these > 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same > manner. What > do these 'victims' expect me to do then? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From preetunair at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 17:17:28 2009 From: preetunair at yahoo.com (PREETU NAIR) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 04:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?They_didn=E2=80=99t_really_need_a_reason_?= =?utf-8?q?to_torture_her?= Message-ID: <838657.5876.qm@web112401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> They didn’t really need a reason to torture her Preetu Nair, TNN PANAJI: The first time she was “burnt” was for not doing the dishes. But the sad part is that there was no work to be done, all the dishes had already been cleaned. This is what a ten-year-old maid tortured by her employer has told the police. In her statement, the girl has also said that she was often beaten up or kicked in the stomach. The girl, who incidentally belongs to a scheduled tribe, was also taunted about this. And now her alleged tormentors—Porvorim resident Audumber (Shubham) Pednekar, a civil engineer, his wife Minaxi and sister-in-law Tina—face charges under the Prevention of Atrocities (SC/ST) Act apart from charges under the IPC and the Goa Children’s Act. While Audumber was arrested and later freed on bail, Minaxi and Tina are absconding. Sources said the minor, who lost her father last year, was originally from Gadag, Hubli, but was living with her grandmother in Goa. About seven months back, a neighbour approached her grandmother and brought her to the Pednekar residence to work as a domestic help. “She told us that initially the family was fine and she was asked to do all the work. The torture started a month later, when Tina allegedly started hitting her with a wire for not cleaning utensils or not mopping the floor or for failing to wash clothes on time.” The girl would then be forced to sleep in the balcony. Her employers would lock the door from inside and open it only in the morning, sources said. According to the victim, she was first “burnt” for not washing utensils even when there was no utensil in the sink to wash. “The girl said that Tina took a hot spoon from a stove and put it to her face,” sources said. The girl was once allegedly kicked on the stomach by Audumber for failing to remove a stain on his trousers. “When she fell on a stone slab in the bathroom (used for washing clothes), she was further beaten with a pipe from the washing machine,” say police sources. The final straw, the police said, was when the girl drank the couple’s seven-month-old twins’ medicine. “I was feeling very sick (with fever) and still had to do the work. As they were not giving me any medicine I took the children’s medicine,” the girl told the police. When Minaxi learnt of this, she told the minor that she would have to burn her. The girl said that Minaxi then closed the door and windows to ensure that no one heard the girl’s screams and placed a heated flat steel spoon on her leg, back and hand, leaving burns and blisters, police said. Even as the girl—without medical attention—writhed in pain for days, the family forced her to work. On Saturday, when Minaxi was feeding the babies and Tina had gone to the bathroom, the girl ran away. “Since the girl is from a scheduled tribe, we have added Section 3 (1) (11) of Prevention of Atrocities (SC/ST) Act, besides sections of the IPC and Children’s Act against the three accused. Investigations have been transferred to DySP Gundu Naik,” said police spokesperson SP A V Deshpande. Meanwhile, the girl, who had suffered burn injuries on her back and thighs, is recuperating at Goa Medical College and Hospital. GMC doctors on Monday said she had suffered “simple injuries”, but didn’t specify the amount of injuries on her body. Unhappy with this, the police have written to the GMC dean requesting a complete medical examination. “The dean has constituted a medical board that will examine the girl on Wednesday for all possible injuries, both old and new,” added Deshpande. Pednekar’s advocate Damodar Dhond said, “The girl’s medical certificate has opined that she has simple injuries. This is not a serious offence. I am not aware that a new section has been added. We have filed for anticipatory bail for the two women and will wait for the reply from the police,” he said. “We will oppose the anticipatory bail application of the two co-accused. We are also going to file a revision application against the bail granted to Pednekar,” said Deshpande. 29 July 2009, The Times of India, Goa edition From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:20:06 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:20:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> References: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907310450p78900630xa87ac4f93cfacf66@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , I do not know who you are but would like you to read the facts about Kashmir . Please go through the below links as well.... Iconoclasm in Kashmir - Motives and Magnitude -Part I http://www.kashmirherald.com/main.php?t=OP&st=D&no=351 Iconoclasm in Kashmir - Motives and Magnitude -Part II http://www.kashmirherald.com/main.php?t=OP&st=D&no=352 Iconoclasm in Kashmir - Motives and Magnitude -Part II http://www.kashmirherald.com/main.php?t=OP&st=D&no=353 Regards Pawan Durani On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Rakesh, dear all > > Rakesh, I don't know who you are, but I would like to thank you for > the great job that you are doing in response to yet another assault > on our reason from the same quarters. When all else fails. Our holy > hindu warriors bring out the tired trick of the charge of iconoclasm. > We have been here many times before. > > Some time ago (September -November 2007, and January 2008) this list > went through a great deal of turbulence regarding the one sided > dishing out of a so called history of iconoclasm in Kashmir. > > Since the list has a working online archive, it is quite easy to > revisit these debates. I enclose the links below for the perusal of > readers such as yourself, who may have joined the list, subsequent to > these exchanges. > > 1. Kalhan, Parihaspura and Komal Gandhar, September 6, 2007 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-September/010200.html > > 2. I wrote a series of postings titled 'Annotations to the History of > Iconoclasm in Kashmir, Parts I-IV' which appeared serially, on the > night of Diwali, November 2007 on the Reader List. The links to them > are as follows > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011030.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011031.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011032.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011033.html > > In January, in response to a rebuttal of my arguments made in the > November four part set of postings. I wrote another post. > > Iconoclasm and a Quest for Hired Limousines - January 24, 2008 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-January/011873.html > > I am just forwarding the links to things I wrote, but many others > participated vigourously (and in many cases perceptively, > thoughtfully and with good deal of good humour) in these debates, as > will be evident by following the trails of the relevant threads in > the archives. > > Some of you who may be new to the list may be shocked at some of the > distinctly xenophobic, communal and hate filled statements made by > some list members in some of the recent postings. You may also be > wondering why they are not taken on. Well, partly because many of us > have done this before. And because the list has an archive, we do not > need to do it again and again. But the list itself has a long memory. > These statements, each one of them, have been wrestled with before. > And the hate-mongers have never been able to answer the criticisms > levelled at them. Hence their tactic, of repetition, exhausting, > monotonous, boring repetition. All you need to do is to look at the > archive. > > They have lost the most important social battles in this country. > They are an exhausted, spent, defeated force. Their leadership is > self-destructing before our very eyes. All that they have is a lot of > time to waste on their keyboards. What they do not understand is that > every time they make a hateful jibe, they lose more ground. > > But keep the good fight going, and the best way to do that is by > talking, also, of many things other than what exercises the spent > imaginations of the partisans of Hindutva and hardline nationalism. > > best > > Shuddha > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 4:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic >> kings >> indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab >> indulge in >> unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, >> have been >> tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, murderers, >> rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly >> condemned. >> >> As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister >> organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims >> never >> asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress >> like other >> human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other >> planets, >> they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs >> as all >> others. >> >> Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. >> Neither >> has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of >> being a >> 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly >> atrocious >> and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper >> evidence >> points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being >> insulted, >> deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. >> >> This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it >> continues among >> members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always >> victimized, >> Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are always >> killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in >> their own >> country...blah...blah...blah... >> >> Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think about >> issues in their context. >> >> I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in their >> personal relations, and then see how their own family members and >> friends >> behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining >> about these >> 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same >> manner. What >> do these 'victims' expect me to do then? >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:37:02 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:37:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SPROUTS' Eco-Leadership Programme for Students and Teachers Message-ID: E-group members can mail them to receive the file I've attached, if you can't see it. *From:* anand pendharkar [mailto:sproutsonline at gmail.com]* Subject:* Invitation to SPROUTS' Eco-Leadership Programme 2009-10 Dear friends, Please find attached the brochure for our Eco-Leadership Programme for the year 2009-10. The 7-level involvement modules of this programme plan to reach out to over 5000 youth (aged 10-21yrs) to sensitise, excite, train & empower and finally motivate them to take action with regards to environmental concerns in their surroundings. Do suitably display and circulate this poster and copies of the same among students and youth that you may know and do motivate them to take up at least the level one & two of the course. It is a certificate course and Level 7 would involve a fully paid fellowship/internship - where by students not only get hands-on experience working with Environmental problems and are placed with either SPROUTS or another NGO, but also earn back more than the entire course fees. So do consider the merits of the course for your students and do recommend it to them. Please feel free to contact me (the undersigned) or my colleague Gaurav Shirodkar (98705-05785) for queries, comments and registrations/enrollment of your students/faculty members. Best Wishes & Hope we can partner to make a change in our global environmental conditions. -- Anand Pendharkar SPROUTS, 68/4 Tarun Bharat Society, Chakala, Sahar Road, Andheri (Eas), Mumbai - 400 099. Tel: (022) - 28368647 Mobile: +91-98201-40254 www.sproutsenvttrust.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sproutsonline From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:39:18 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:39:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310509v389233a5kb1e09a3e05ca6231@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, ask the media which published the supplies made to kasab- Athar, biryani et al, not me, ofcourse at the cost of the national exchequer.!May be media should not publish all these details for the terror accused.and caught in the act of terror. for the sake of being "secular" ? Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen jee > > Who asked you to give the permission to feed chicken biryani to Afzal Guru? > You should have rejected the permission there and then itself na? Or did > Manmohan feed it first to him and then tell you about it? > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:40:44 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:40:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. along with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. if u can show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier position, then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to argue no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice is that u should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise others. i do not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it is also welcome. - best wishes anupam On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate with what > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but don't force > them to change. They take it at their ego' > > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and others > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or criticizing > them. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:42:33 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:42:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GOOD NEWS Message-ID: <3457ce860907310512m38d112e3u4f36c00243c55f24@mail.gmail.com> GOOD NEWS Due to the intense protests of the fishing community against the Kerala Government’s plan to reclaim 5000 hectares of the sea between Veli and Shanghumugham, pointing out the environmental problems and livelihood rights of the fishing community, the minister of the industries has decided to drop the feasibility study and the project. This is one more victory for the struggles of the fishing community and other social organizations. Regards, T.Peter http://www.keralafishworkers.org http://www.alakal.net From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:43:18 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:43:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310513o21386397l16479cf0d259d5f8@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, Panchtanthra stories are relevant, not selectively, but let me refresh you the story of united power of brothers,. Old man who had five shildren gave five sticks to each of his son and asked them to break them, each was broken, not only that, all were happy that they broke the sticks, but then, the old man gave a bunch of five sticks tied together, none could break it.! Our preference is the bonding of all citizens of the nation irrespective of the faith, not breaking of each faith for gains.! Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate with what > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but don't force > them to change. They take it at their ego' > > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and others > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or criticizing > them. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:47:32 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:47:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam jee, who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also the islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If any of us talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak for hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art in deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Rajen, > My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. along > with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. if u can > show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier > position, > then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to argue > no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice is that > u > should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise others. i > do > not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it is also > welcome. > - best wishes > anupam > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Dear all > > > > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate with > what > > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but don't > force > > them to change. They take it at their ego' > > > > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and > others > > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or criticizing > > them. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:48:12 2009 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:48:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> References: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> Message-ID: <13df7c120907310518x191276d5ve32686d8a7d6fe88@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shuddha,Rakesh and all, I am not least surprised that Shuddha did not post the rebuttals to his smug annotations.Obviously he is not into the business of "dishing out one sided" arguements. Even after the rebuttals Shuddha has the cheek to call Iconoclasm as a trick just goes on to show how wedded he is to his own self's aggrandisement yet does not have the courage to post rebuttals. Rakesh,I must tell you that not even one of Shuddha;s assertions was correct and the piece that Pawan has posted will make it easy to understand that. Live on Shuddha... Rashneek On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Rakesh, dear all > > Rakesh, I don't know who you are, but I would like to thank you for > the great job that you are doing in response to yet another assault > on our reason from the same quarters. When all else fails. Our holy > hindu warriors bring out the tired trick of the charge of iconoclasm. > We have been here many times before. > > Some time ago (September -November 2007, and January 2008) this list > went through a great deal of turbulence regarding the one sided > dishing out of a so called history of iconoclasm in Kashmir. > > Since the list has a working online archive, it is quite easy to > revisit these debates. I enclose the links below for the perusal of > readers such as yourself, who may have joined the list, subsequent to > these exchanges. > > 1. Kalhan, Parihaspura and Komal Gandhar, September 6, 2007 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-September/010200.html > > 2. I wrote a series of postings titled 'Annotations to the History of > Iconoclasm in Kashmir, Parts I-IV' which appeared serially, on the > night of Diwali, November 2007 on the Reader List. The links to them > are as follows > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011030.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011031.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011032.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011033.html > > In January, in response to a rebuttal of my arguments made in the > November four part set of postings. I wrote another post. > > Iconoclasm and a Quest for Hired Limousines - January 24, 2008 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-January/011873.html > > I am just forwarding the links to things I wrote, but many others > participated vigourously (and in many cases perceptively, > thoughtfully and with good deal of good humour) in these debates, as > will be evident by following the trails of the relevant threads in > the archives. > > Some of you who may be new to the list may be shocked at some of the > distinctly xenophobic, communal and hate filled statements made by > some list members in some of the recent postings. You may also be > wondering why they are not taken on. Well, partly because many of us > have done this before. And because the list has an archive, we do not > need to do it again and again. But the list itself has a long memory. > These statements, each one of them, have been wrestled with before. > And the hate-mongers have never been able to answer the criticisms > levelled at them. Hence their tactic, of repetition, exhausting, > monotonous, boring repetition. All you need to do is to look at the > archive. > > They have lost the most important social battles in this country. > They are an exhausted, spent, defeated force. Their leadership is > self-destructing before our very eyes. All that they have is a lot of > time to waste on their keyboards. What they do not understand is that > every time they make a hateful jibe, they lose more ground. > > But keep the good fight going, and the best way to do that is by > talking, also, of many things other than what exercises the spent > imaginations of the partisans of Hindutva and hardline nationalism. > > best > > Shuddha > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 4:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic > > kings > > indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab > > indulge in > > unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, > > have been > > tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, murderers, > > rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly > > condemned. > > > > As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister > > organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims > > never > > asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress > > like other > > human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other > > planets, > > they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs > > as all > > others. > > > > Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. > > Neither > > has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of > > being a > > 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly > > atrocious > > and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper > > evidence > > points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being > > insulted, > > deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. > > > > This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it > > continues among > > members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always > > victimized, > > Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are always > > killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in > > their own > > country...blah...blah...blah... > > > > Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think about > > issues in their context. > > > > I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in their > > personal relations, and then see how their own family members and > > friends > > behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining > > about these > > 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same > > manner. What > > do these 'victims' expect me to do then? > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:48:31 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:48:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907310016k4622ac14w621437a373dc7a97@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907310518i53c76e68qfae192fa21681b11@mail.gmail.com> Well, Well, Well. Fatwas issued by the Imams calling Vandemataram anti-Islamic and the singing of the National Anthem, against the tennets of Islam. Good going. V Murali On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic kings > indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab indulge in > unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, have been > tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, murderers, > rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly > condemned. > > As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister > organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims never > asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress like other > human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other planets, > they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs as all > others. > > Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. Neither > has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of being a > 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly atrocious > and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper evidence > points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being insulted, > deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. > > This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it continues > among members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always > victimized, Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are > always killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in > their own country...blah...blah...blah... > > Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think about > issues in their context. > > I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in their > personal relations, and then see how their own family members and friends > behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining about these > 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same manner. What > do these 'victims' expect me to do then? > From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 17:56:51 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:56:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: <13df7c120907310518x191276d5ve32686d8a7d6fe88@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> <13df7c120907310518x191276d5ve32686d8a7d6fe88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560907310526k21ea3a21m14b481ab868c004d@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, one thing is for sure, the list moderators are very "secular" and dissenter, if hindu, (other views remain), will be thrown out like a dissenter in politburo, that is for sure, ofcourse with very nice reasons and some yes posts giving assent to such action.! Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:48 PM, rashneek kher wrote: > Dear Shuddha,Rakesh and all, > > I am not least surprised that Shuddha did not post the rebuttals to his > smug > annotations.Obviously he is not into the business of "dishing out one > sided" > arguements. > Even after the rebuttals Shuddha has the cheek to call Iconoclasm as a > trick > just goes on to show how wedded he is to his own self's aggrandisement yet > does not have the courage to post rebuttals. > > Rakesh,I must tell you that not even one of Shuddha;s assertions was > correct > and the piece that Pawan has posted will make it easy to understand that. > > Live on Shuddha... > > Rashneek > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >wrote: > > > Dear Rakesh, dear all > > > > Rakesh, I don't know who you are, but I would like to thank you for > > the great job that you are doing in response to yet another assault > > on our reason from the same quarters. When all else fails. Our holy > > hindu warriors bring out the tired trick of the charge of iconoclasm. > > We have been here many times before. > > > > Some time ago (September -November 2007, and January 2008) this list > > went through a great deal of turbulence regarding the one sided > > dishing out of a so called history of iconoclasm in Kashmir. > > > > Since the list has a working online archive, it is quite easy to > > revisit these debates. I enclose the links below for the perusal of > > readers such as yourself, who may have joined the list, subsequent to > > these exchanges. > > > > 1. Kalhan, Parihaspura and Komal Gandhar, September 6, 2007 > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-September/010200.html > > > > 2. I wrote a series of postings titled 'Annotations to the History of > > Iconoclasm in Kashmir, Parts I-IV' which appeared serially, on the > > night of Diwali, November 2007 on the Reader List. The links to them > > are as follows > > > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011030.html > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011031.html > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011032.html > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011033.html > > > > In January, in response to a rebuttal of my arguments made in the > > November four part set of postings. I wrote another post. > > > > Iconoclasm and a Quest for Hired Limousines - January 24, 2008 > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-January/011873.html > > > > I am just forwarding the links to things I wrote, but many others > > participated vigourously (and in many cases perceptively, > > thoughtfully and with good deal of good humour) in these debates, as > > will be evident by following the trails of the relevant threads in > > the archives. > > > > Some of you who may be new to the list may be shocked at some of the > > distinctly xenophobic, communal and hate filled statements made by > > some list members in some of the recent postings. You may also be > > wondering why they are not taken on. Well, partly because many of us > > have done this before. And because the list has an archive, we do not > > need to do it again and again. But the list itself has a long memory. > > These statements, each one of them, have been wrestled with before. > > And the hate-mongers have never been able to answer the criticisms > > levelled at them. Hence their tactic, of repetition, exhausting, > > monotonous, boring repetition. All you need to do is to look at the > > archive. > > > > They have lost the most important social battles in this country. > > They are an exhausted, spent, defeated force. Their leadership is > > self-destructing before our very eyes. All that they have is a lot of > > time to waste on their keyboards. What they do not understand is that > > every time they make a hateful jibe, they lose more ground. > > > > But keep the good fight going, and the best way to do that is by > > talking, also, of many things other than what exercises the spent > > imaginations of the partisans of Hindutva and hardline nationalism. > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 4:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > > I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic > > > kings > > > indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab > > > indulge in > > > unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, > > > have been > > > tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, murderers, > > > rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly > > > condemned. > > > > > > As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister > > > organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims > > > never > > > asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress > > > like other > > > human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other > > > planets, > > > they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs > > > as all > > > others. > > > > > > Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. > > > Neither > > > has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of > > > being a > > > 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly > > > atrocious > > > and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper > > > evidence > > > points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being > > > insulted, > > > deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. > > > > > > This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it > > > continues among > > > members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always > > > victimized, > > > Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are always > > > killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in > > > their own > > > country...blah...blah...blah... > > > > > > Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think about > > > issues in their context. > > > > > > I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in their > > > personal relations, and then see how their own family members and > > > friends > > > behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining > > > about these > > > 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same > > > manner. What > > > do these 'victims' expect me to do then? > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 18:01:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:01:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907310450p78900630xa87ac4f93cfacf66@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> <6b79f1a70907310450p78900630xa87ac4f93cfacf66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I thought a lot that such followers of Hindutva nationalism would realize their folly and instead contribute to discussing about a better world. Even if they were simply nationalists but would have thought from the people's point of view (even if only Indian people), it would have been very helpful to discuss many issues and really get to understand more. But now this forum seems to be only for people to go about discussing religions. I read a primer on ICDS (Integrated Child Development Scheme) put up on the Right To Food Campaign Site. (www.righttofoodindia.org) It stated that 'The Hindu', one of the better newspapers of this country, had been publishing more articles on the nuclear deal, defence issues, terrorism and higher education than on ICDS. Infact, there were more articles published on primary education rather than ICDS. And strangely, the ICDS which is a campaign for children under six, states that if children aren't properly looked at till that age, then any kind of education or treatment will not be able to compensate for this lack of care and the children would be mentally and physically retarded. How many of us know that about 50% of the children under six in this country are malnourished? How many know that 1/3rd of the children in this country under six are under-weight? How many know that micro-nutrients which are very essential for the growth of children in this nation, are not being given to them in sufficient manner? And how many know that the nutrient value in the crops of this country has been decreasing in the past decade, and so to get the same amount of nutrition, the amount of food to be consumed would have to be increased? (The last question is something even the Right to Food activists should know, considering that they are fighting for food and nutrition for everyone.) Instead, we all have time for Hindu-Muslim debates. Even the Sarai Reader issue discusses about fear as a topic (for which essays are invited), in which one of the sections is about fear of riots. What about fear of hunger? Isn't that an important issue? (I am not an accomplished writer to discuss about fear in the way it was mentioned in the link, but certainly would be great if someone can write about the fear of hunger.) If we really feel Muslim and Hindu religions can't co-exist in this nation, either all Hindus and Muslims should take swords and finish each other till followers of only one religion exist, or alternatively bring about another partition of this country (in a peaceful manner) so that this time people of both religions can live separately but somewhat peacefully. (Though how much peace that would bring is itself a doubt). Or may be both India and Pakistan should sign a pact to drop nuclear bombs on themselves and give the rest of the world some peace and calm, and a few important lessons to learn as well. But it would only show how fickle and irresponsible we are to our brethren who are economically destitute, politically powerless, and socially subjugated. And it shows what we are: totally despicable criminals of the worst kind, if we still forget them and keep on chanting Hindu-Muslim, Ram-Allah, and fights of such kind. Regards Rakesh From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Jul 31 17:59:13 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:59:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: <13df7c120907310518x191276d5ve32686d8a7d6fe88@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> <13df7c120907310518x191276d5ve32686d8a7d6fe88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2338EB9F-EA68-40BD-96FA-7AFC28ECD540@sarai.net> Dear Rakesh, Rashneek, Pawan, I am glad that Pawan has posted the links to Rashneek's rebuttals to my postings. It has saved me (and whosoever else was interested) the labour of having to do so. It is good that everyone can now look at both sides of this debate. May I make a suggestion. In future, if we are to basically repeat what we have said in the past, - say about iconoclasm - then, this practice of posting 'past' links is much more preferable to basically dishing out the same argument again in reams of text. It saves everyone a lot of bother, and does not subject people who are not necessarily interested in the monotonous repetition of the same arguments from having to be subjected to volumes of prejudice and pre-formed opinion clogging up valuable space in their mailboxes. As for the contents of the arguments, and whose 'facts' stand the test of reason, evidence and textual criticism, let each 'reader' judge for themselves. I never make a claim to the truth, but I do recognize deception when I see it. i hope everyone else here does as well, regards Shuddha I trust that everyone concerned On 31-Jul-09, at 5:48 PM, rashneek kher wrote: > Dear Shuddha,Rakesh and all, > > I am not least surprised that Shuddha did not post the rebuttals to > his smug annotations.Obviously he is not into the business of > "dishing out one sided" arguements. > Even after the rebuttals Shuddha has the cheek to call Iconoclasm > as a trick just goes on to show how wedded he is to his own self's > aggrandisement yet does not have the courage to post rebuttals. > > Rakesh,I must tell you that not even one of Shuddha;s assertions > was correct and the piece that Pawan has posted will make it easy > to understand that. > > Live on Shuddha... > > Rashneek > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > Dear Rakesh, dear all > > Rakesh, I don't know who you are, but I would like to thank you for > the great job that you are doing in response to yet another assault > on our reason from the same quarters. When all else fails. Our holy > hindu warriors bring out the tired trick of the charge of iconoclasm. > We have been here many times before. > > Some time ago (September -November 2007, and January 2008) this list > went through a great deal of turbulence regarding the one sided > dishing out of a so called history of iconoclasm in Kashmir. > > Since the list has a working online archive, it is quite easy to > revisit these debates. I enclose the links below for the perusal of > readers such as yourself, who may have joined the list, subsequent to > these exchanges. > > 1. Kalhan, Parihaspura and Komal Gandhar, September 6, 2007 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-September/010200.html > > 2. I wrote a series of postings titled 'Annotations to the History of > Iconoclasm in Kashmir, Parts I-IV' which appeared serially, on the > night of Diwali, November 2007 on the Reader List. The links to them > are as follows > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011030.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011031.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011032.html > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011033.html > > In January, in response to a rebuttal of my arguments made in the > November four part set of postings. I wrote another post. > > Iconoclasm and a Quest for Hired Limousines - January 24, 2008 > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-January/011873.html > > I am just forwarding the links to things I wrote, but many others > participated vigourously (and in many cases perceptively, > thoughtfully and with good deal of good humour) in these debates, as > will be evident by following the trails of the relevant threads in > the archives. > > Some of you who may be new to the list may be shocked at some of the > distinctly xenophobic, communal and hate filled statements made by > some list members in some of the recent postings. You may also be > wondering why they are not taken on. Well, partly because many of us > have done this before. And because the list has an archive, we do not > need to do it again and again. But the list itself has a long memory. > These statements, each one of them, have been wrestled with before. > And the hate-mongers have never been able to answer the criticisms > levelled at them. Hence their tactic, of repetition, exhausting, > monotonous, boring repetition. All you need to do is to look at the > archive. > > They have lost the most important social battles in this country. > They are an exhausted, spent, defeated force. Their leadership is > self-destructing before our very eyes. All that they have is a lot of > time to waste on their keyboards. What they do not understand is that > every time they make a hateful jibe, they lose more ground. > > But keep the good fight going, and the best way to do that is by > talking, also, of many things other than what exercises the spent > imaginations of the partisans of Hindutva and hardline nationalism. > > best > > Shuddha > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 4:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > I think this is really getting on to too much. Just because Islamic > > kings > > indulged in vandalism of dubious kinds, and some men like Kasab > > indulge in > > unnecessary violence, Muslims all over the world, including India, > > have been > > tainted with choicest abuses and been described as killers, > murderers, > > rapists, butchers and what not. This is wrong, and must be harshly > > condemned. > > > > As for pseudo-secular politics, blame the Congress and its sister > > organizations and political parties, not the Muslims. The Muslims > > never > > asked the Congress and others to appease them. They want progress > > like other > > human beings, not appeasement. The Muslims have not come from other > > planets, > > they were born on the earth like the rest of us and have same needs > > as all > > others. > > > > Moreover, who called Hindus as fanatics? I have never called one. > > Neither > > has the Congress called any Hindu a fanatic. This dubious sense of > > being a > > 'victim' being portrayed by some members of this forum is highly > > atrocious > > and needs to be seriously condemned, simply because all proper > > evidence > > points to the contrary of their accusation that Hindus are being > > insulted, > > deemed fools and also abused, or targeted in vicious ways. > > > > This seems to be the BJP line of argument always, and now it > > continues among > > members of the society and on this forum too: Hindus are always > > victimized, > > Hindus are always treated as second-class citizens, Hindus are > always > > killed, Hindus lost lives, Hindus were raped, they are insulted in > > their own > > country...blah...blah...blah... > > > > Which Hindus have been brainwashed, may I know? And please think > about > > issues in their context. > > > > I challenge all these 'victims' to try playing this 'victim' in > their > > personal relations, and then see how their own family members and > > friends > > behave. I am 1000% sure their family members will be complaining > > about these > > 'eternal victims'. And yet, they keep on behaving in the same > > manner. What > > do these 'victims' expect me to do then? > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Jul 31 18:00:52 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:00:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560907310058x6bc92769x4420764db84df021@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> <6b79f1a70907310450p78900630xa87ac4f93cfacf66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2417193E-CD73-4490-A1DC-B4BA07E7B3A0@sarai.net> Dear Rakesh, Very well said. regards Shuddha On 31-Jul-09, at 6:01 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I thought a lot that such followers of Hindutva nationalism would > realize their folly and instead contribute to discussing about a > better world. Even if they were simply nationalists but would have > thought from the people's point of view (even if only Indian > people), it would have been very helpful to discuss many issues and > really get to understand more. But now this forum seems to be only > for people to go about discussing religions. > > I read a primer on ICDS (Integrated Child Development Scheme) put > up on the Right To Food Campaign Site. (www.righttofoodindia.org) > It stated that 'The Hindu', one of the better newspapers of this > country, had been publishing more articles on the nuclear deal, > defence issues, terrorism and higher education than on ICDS. > Infact, there were more articles published on primary education > rather than ICDS. And strangely, the ICDS which is a campaign for > children under six, states that if children aren't properly looked > at till that age, then any kind of education or treatment will not > be able to compensate for this lack of care and the children would > be mentally and physically retarded. > > How many of us know that about 50% of the children under six in > this country are malnourished? How many know that 1/3rd of the > children in this country under six are under-weight? How many know > that micro-nutrients which are very essential for the growth of > children in this nation, are not being given to them in sufficient > manner? And how many know that the nutrient value in the crops of > this country has been decreasing in the past decade, and so to get > the same amount of nutrition, the amount of food to be consumed > would have to be increased? (The last question is something even > the Right to Food activists should know, considering that they are > fighting for food and nutrition for everyone.) > > Instead, we all have time for Hindu-Muslim debates. Even the Sarai > Reader issue discusses about fear as a topic (for which essays are > invited), in which one of the sections is about fear of riots. What > about fear of hunger? Isn't that an important issue? (I am not an > accomplished writer to discuss about fear in the way it was > mentioned in the link, but certainly would be great if someone can > write about the fear of hunger.) > > If we really feel Muslim and Hindu religions can't co-exist in this > nation, either all Hindus and Muslims should take swords and finish > each other till followers of only one religion exist, or > alternatively bring about another partition of this country (in a > peaceful manner) so that this time people of both religions can > live separately but somewhat peacefully. (Though how much peace > that would bring is itself a doubt). Or may be both India and > Pakistan should sign a pact to drop nuclear bombs on themselves and > give the rest of the world some peace and calm, and a few important > lessons to learn as well. > > But it would only show how fickle and irresponsible we are to our > brethren who are economically destitute, politically powerless, and > socially subjugated. And it shows what we are: totally despicable > criminals of the worst kind, if we still forget them and keep on > chanting Hindu-Muslim, Ram-Allah, and fights of such kind. > > Regards > > Rakesh Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 18:05:36 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:05:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. i guess they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on questioning them pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a community is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you said to meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then point out others -anupam On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Anupam jee, > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also the > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If any of us > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak for > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art in > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Rajen, >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. along >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. if u >> can >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier >> position, >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to argue >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice is that >> u >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise others. i >> do >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it is also >> welcome. >> - best wishes >> anupam >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer >> wrote: >> >> > Dear all >> > >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate with >> what >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but don't >> force >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> > >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and >> others >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or criticizing >> > them. >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Rakesh >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 18:16:53 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:16:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list doesnt seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that the constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such agendas. I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an assurance to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. Take my word for that. Best wishes Anupam On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, as we > post. > > Regards, > Rajen. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Rajen >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. i >> guess >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on questioning >> them >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a >> community >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you said >> to >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then point out >> others >> -anupam >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also the >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If any >> of us >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak for >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art in >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Rajen. >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Rajen, >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. >> along >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. if u >> >> can >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier >> >> position, >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to >> argue >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice is >> that >> >> u >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise others. >> i >> >> do >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it is >> also >> >> welcome. >> >> - best wishes >> >> anupam >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Dear all >> >> > >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate >> with >> >> what >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but don't >> >> force >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> >> > >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and >> >> others >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >> criticizing >> >> > them. >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > >> >> > Rakesh >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 20:59:00 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:59:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] NREGA article Message-ID: Dear all I thought in addition to the RTF, I will also put up articles on other issues if I can. So here is an NREGA article in the Times of India by Jean Dreze. I personally believe that if Times of India at least publishes one article by Mr. Dreze at least once every three days, it's elitist views may perhaps change for the better. Do read the article. Regards Rakesh Act fair, give rural workers their dueJEAN DREZE12 July 2009, 01:07am IST Print Email Discuss Bookmark/Share Save Comment Text Size: | In his recent Budget speech, the finance minister described the National Rural EmploymentGuarantee Act (NREGA) as a "magnificent success". There is a sense in which he is right. The fact that the Act is in place, and provides dignified employment at minimum wages to millions of rural workers every year, is a success of sorts. However, as a statement about the status of implementation of NREGA, the minister's statement is bound to sound a trifle heroic to anyone who is familiar with the situation on the ground. In a series of field surveysspread over a dozen states during the last three years, we have observed routine violations of the entitlements of NREGA workers — whether it is their entitlement to work on demand, or to minimum wages, or to payment within 15 days, or to basic worksite facilities. This state of affairs reflects the absence of any grievance redressal system worth the name. This defeats the purpose of an Act, which is to give people enforceable entitlements. The Act includes many provisions for grievance redressal. However, these provisions have been ignored or sidelined. A few illustrations may help. One of the key accountability mechanisms in the Act is the unemployment allowance: if someone is not employed within 15 days of applying, he or she is entitled to an unemployment allowance. However, with a few exceptions, the state governments have resisted this tooth and nail. A common stalling tactic is to reject work applications, or refuse to issue a receipt when people apply. Without a receipt showing that they have demanded work, they cannot apply for the unemployment allowance. Another accountability provision is Section 25, whereby anyone who fails to perform his or her duty under the Act is liable to a fine of up to Rs 1,000. Recent experience shows that even relatively small fines can be of great help in keeping government officials on their toes. When a fine of Rs 1,000 was slapped on the Block Development Officer (BDO) of Karon Block in Jharkhand last year, he spared no effort to find an escape route. Thus, wider use of Section 25 could make a big difference — unfortunately, no state government other than Jharkhand has used it so far. There is also a provision, under Schedule II Section 30, for compensating workers for delays in payments. If wages are not paid within 15 days, workers are entitled to compensation under the Payment of Wages Act. But this, again, has never happened, except in Jharkhand. Meanwhile, delays in payments appear to be getting worse, causing immense hardship to NREGA workers. What greater injustice can there be than to extract hard labour from undernourished people and then fail to pay them for months? State governments bear the primary responsibility for putting in place grievance redressal systems. Under Section 19, they are bound to formulate Grievance Redressal Rules for "dealing with any complaint by any person". To my knowledge, no state government has done that so far. Interesting ideas have been floated, such as the appointment of ombudsmen at the district level, but they are yet to see the light of day. At the national level, the Central Employment Guarantee Council was supposed to be an active, independent watchdog for NREGA. It has a broad mandate and wide powers under the Act. Unfortunately, the Council is not doing its job, and nor has it been enabled to do it. Further, the government seems to consider the Council as a purely advisory body, and to treat it like most advisory bodies — taking on board whatever advice turns out to be convenient and ignoring the rest. A telling example of disregard for the Council's advice was the "freezing" of NREGA wages in January 2009, against the unanimous advice of Council members. As it happens, this notification has recently been suspended by the high court of Andhra Pradesh. These are some examples of the "dormant" provisions and institutions that could be activated to restore accountability in NREGA. The real question is — will the Central and state governments have the courage to make themselves accountable to the people? The author is an eminent development economist From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 21:03:37 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:03:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 2 Message-ID: Dear all In this article, I don't agree with all points and solutions being put up, but I think still that doesn't mean we shouldn't go through the article. So here's this one for all. Regards Rakesh Food security: time to change track? If the government uses the public distribution system (PDS), there is no way that hunger will go away from this land even in the next 10 years or so Subsidy Economics | Ashok Gulati The government is talking of bringing in a National Food Security Bill, whereby every family below the poverty line (BPL) will be entitled to 25kg of grains per month at a rate of Rs3 a kg. This is a bold step towards right to food for the poor. The key challenge is not just passing the Bill, but making sure it is implemented in a manner by which this subsidized food reaches the needy. Politically as well as economically, it can prove to be a master stroke abolishing hunger in one go. It can surely catapult the fortunes of the Congress party, and also raise India’s credibility among nations, if we do it right. What are the various options with the government to implement it right? If the government uses the public distribution system (PDS), there is no way that hunger will go away from this land even in the next 10 years or so. The reason is that the existing PDS, with a network of at least 400,000 fair price shops, suffers from large leakages. The Planning Commission’s study of 2005 shows that roughly 58% of grains issued from the PDS do not reach BPL families due to problems ranging from targeting errors to corruption all along the chain. There is also a problem in defining and identifying a BPL family. While the Planning Commission puts the number of BPL families at 65.9 million, based on its 1993-94 poverty line and population of 2000, in reality the total number of BPL cards issued by states is 107 million. And if the plan panel’s criterion is updated with the poverty of 2004-05, and population of 2009, the BPL families will be just 60 million. Which of these BPL families, 60 million or 66 million or 107 million, will be covered in the Bill can have huge implications in terms of cost. And yet, the real poor may remain out of this net. It is well known that the access of poor people to PDS is much better in Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Kerala, but where poverty looms large, such as in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, Orissa and West Bengal, the performance of PDS is pathetic. This is a clear indication that things will not improve if we keep relying on the existing PDS for reaching out to BPL families under the new Bill. It is perhaps time to change the implementation track, and do things differently. But how do we do it? The Wadhwa committee looked into the operations of PDS and recommended, in its report submitted in 2009, an end-to-end computerization of PDS operations, from procurement to distribution of grains. It also suggested using radio frequency identification devices to track the movement of grains. This is considered critical to stop large-scale corruption and diversion. However, the report does not go into the criteria for identifying the poor, or thinking of some other ways of helping the poor. Studies by the International Food Policy Research Institute in several countries shows that instead of physical handling of grains, conditional cash transfers to the poor, especially women, are much more cost-effective ways of helping the poor. New technologies can be used to issue biometric cards to the poor for their entitlements through food vouchers. These food vouchers can be used to buy a number of food items from any grocery shop, who in turn can get these reimbursed from post offices or banks on a commission basis. To identify the poor, one can combine high-tech methods with social audits. The criteria must be simple, and to the extent possible, foolproof. For example, one can say that all those who have a motorized vehicle, or a cellphone, or a land line with a minimum bill, or electricity connection with a minimum bill, or a job in the organized sector, etc., are not BPL. All such people are registered at one place or another, and they can be marked as non-BPL families in the master computerized list. For the remaining families, there could be a social audit through village councils, with a clear sign on their houses that they are BPL families. It may take a little time to do it, but it will go a long way in helping the real needy. Also, if done right, it can keep the budgetary implications of this Bill within limits of Rs20,000-25,000 crore, assuming the subsidy per kg of grain is Rs12, and BPL families do not number more than 70 million. If not, the cost will be enormous, almost double of this amount, and hunger will still haunt India. *Ashok Gulati is director in Asia for International Food Policy Research Institute. * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 21:08:35 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:08:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 2 Message-ID: *Ending destitution * By Jean Dreze * Food transfers to the destitute are a good way of using the surplus grain stocks. * SAMRI DEVI is a 70-year-old widow who lives in Kusumatand, an impoverished hamlet in Palamau district, Jharkhand. Her son, Bhageshwar Bhuiya, suffers from TB and is unable to work. Her daughter-in-law has taken leave of this world. So the burden of looking after Bhageshwar and his seven children rests on Samri Devi's frail shoulders. She feeds the family, somehow, by gleaning leftover rice from a local rice mill, collecting wild foods and begging from time to time. The children are severely undernourished and none of them goes to school. Except for one cooking pot and a few rags, Samri Devi's family owns absolutely nothing — not even a blanket or a pair of chappals. Samri Devi's is one among millions of households in rural India that might be described as "destitute". These households typically have no able-bodied adult member and no regular source of income. They survive by doing a variety of informal activities such as gathering food from the village commons, making baskets, selling minor forest produce and keeping the odd goat. We met Samri Devi during a recent survey of destitution in five States (Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh), conducted by researchers from the Centre for Development Economics and the Centre for Equity Studies. We were shocked to find that even in prosperous villages some households lived in conditions of extreme poverty and hunger. A casual visitor is unlikely to notice them, as destitute households keep a low profile and are often socially invisible. But if you look for them, you will find them, quietly struggling to earn their next meal or patiently starving in a dark mud hut. From this, one point is clear: destitute households cannot rely on spontaneous community support. Social security arrangements are needed. As things stand, however, destitute households are beyond the pale of most development programmes and welfare schemes. They are unable to participate in rural employment programmes, if available. Getting a bank loan is for most of them beyond the realm of possibility. Even "self-help groups" tend to shun them. Some destitute households are able to take advantage of pension schemes such as those meant for widows and the aged, but the coverage of these schemes is very limited and the formalities involved often end up excluding the poorest of the poor. In this sea of neglect, an island of hope has recently emerged — the Antyodaya Anna Yojana. This programme, introduced in early 2001 (despite predictable objections from the Finance Ministry), is addressed to the poorest of the poor, as identified by gram panchayats and gram sabhas. Antyodaya households have special ration cards and are entitled to 35 kg of grain a month at highly subsidised prices (Rs. 2 a kg for wheat and Rs. 3 a kg for rice). The survey mentioned earlier indicates that the programme is doing well, in sharp contrast with other components of the public distribution system (PDS). First and foremost, the selection of Antyodaya households appears to be quite fair: among the 450 Antyodaya households living in the sample villages, a large majority turned out to be very poor. Nearly two thirds of these households are constrained to skip meals from time to time. More than half do not own a single blanket or quilt. Only two per cent of the sample households lived in economic conditions described by the field investigators as "better than average", compared with other households in the village. In other words, the community-based selection procedure is working. Antyodaya also seems to be reasonably successful in terms of the timely and effective distribution of food rations. This is particularly so in Andhra Pradesh, where most of the sample households had received their full quota every month since the programme was initiated. Taking the five sample States together, we estimated that the average Antyodaya household obtained close to 75 per cent of its full entitlement since the programme began. Regarding the quality of grain received, 85 per cent of the respondents described it as "average" or "good". And while the prices charged to the Antyodaya households were occasionally higher than the official issue prices, the extent of overcharging is not very large — about 13 per cent on average. This is not to say that the programme is flawless. In some areas (particularly in Jharkhand), we found that many Antyodaya households had been deprived of their entitlements, as ration-shop dealers took advantage of their powerlessness. Yet, the experience so far strongly suggests that these failures can be addressed and that the basic approach underlying the Antyodaya programme is quite sound. The main limitation of the Antyodaya Anna Yojana, seen as a social security programme, is its restricted coverage (less than 5 per cent of the rural population). But there is absolutely no difficulty in expanding and consolidating it. Today, it absorbs less than three million tonnes of food per year — a trivial proportion of the country's aggregate food stocks of 65 million tonnes. An expanded programme of Antyodaya-style social security for the destitute, covering (say) 10 per cent of the rural population with enhanced entitlements of 10 kg of grain per person a month, would require about eight million tonnes of grain per year. This is a small price to pay for protecting the rural population from extreme poverty. It is useful to see the case for a major expansion of the Antyodaya programme in the context of the "problem" of ballooning food stocks in the country. The needs and rights of destitute households should of course be the primary consideration, but as it happens, there are also independent reasons why food transfers to the destitute are a good way of using the surplus grain stocks. First, the overhead costs of these food transfers are low. This is a crucial consideration, because overhead costs have been the main stumbling block in the way of other constructive uses of food stocks, such as mid-day meals and food-for-work programmes. Second, food transfers to the destitute also have the advantage of boosting the aggregate consumption of foodgrains. Indeed, since there is widespread hunger among destitute households, most of the food given to them translates into additional consumption. In contrast, food transfers made under programmes such as school meals or food-for-work create little additional demand for foodgrains, as they substitute to a large extent for food that would otherwise be bought in the market. This, too, is a crucial point, because in the absence of additional demand the only long-term solution to the problem of ballooning food stocks (short of exporting them) is to reduce procurement prices, something that is unlikely to happen in the near future. In short, there is an overwhelming case for introducing a large programme of food-based social security for the destitute. The Antyodaya experience shows that this approach is feasible. A permanent programme along the same lines is likely to work even better, as eligible households learn to claim their entitlements. It would go a long way towards ending the extreme insecurity and deprivation that ruin the lives of destitute households in rural India. In addition, this is an economically attractive way of reducing the country's bloated food stocks. There is little reason for hesitation. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 21:13:22 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:43:22 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List Message-ID: Well said Rakesh. As in the Bangla phrase: Bhat De Haramjada, Nahole Manchitro Khabo (give me rice you bastard, or i'll eat your whole map) > On 31-Jul-09, at 6:01 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> How many of us know that about 50% of the children under six in >> this country are malnourished? >> >> Instead, we all have time for Hindu-Muslim debates. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 22:26:43 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:26:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Rajen > You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list doesnt > seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that the > constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such > agendas. > I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an assurance > to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will > keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. Take > my word for that. > Best wishes > Anupam > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, as we > > post. > > > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Rajen > >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. i > >> guess > >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on questioning > >> them > >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a > >> community > >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you said > >> to > >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then point > out > >> others > >> -anupam > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > Dear Anupam jee, > >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also > the > >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If any > >> of us > >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak for > >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art > in > >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is > >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > > >> > Rajen. > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Rajen, > >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. > >> along > >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. if > u > >> >> can > >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier > >> >> position, > >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to > >> argue > >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice is > >> that > >> >> u > >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise > others. > >> i > >> >> do > >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it is > >> also > >> >> welcome. > >> >> - best wishes > >> >> anupam > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Dear all > >> >> > > >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate > >> with > >> >> what > >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but > don't > >> >> force > >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > >> >> > > >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and > >> >> others > >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or > >> criticizing > >> >> > them. > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards > >> >> > > >> >> > Rakesh > >> >> > > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Rajen. > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 22:29:31 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:29:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4eab87870907310959k15377c07tf457c3d54b7f14c7@mail.gmail.com> Let every one of our politicians give 10% of their black money earned illegally, and we will very few SAMRI DEVOs. Murali V On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > *Ending destitution * > > By Jean Dreze > > * Food transfers to the destitute are a good way of using the surplus grain > stocks. * > > SAMRI DEVI is a 70-year-old widow who lives in Kusumatand, an impoverished > hamlet in Palamau district, Jharkhand. Her son, Bhageshwar Bhuiya, suffers > from TB and is unable to work. Her daughter-in-law has taken leave of this > world. So the burden of looking after Bhageshwar and his seven children > rests on Samri Devi's frail shoulders. She feeds the family, somehow, by > gleaning leftover rice from a local rice mill, collecting wild foods and > begging from time to time. The children are severely undernourished and > none > of them goes to school. Except for one cooking pot and a few rags, Samri > Devi's family owns absolutely nothing — not even a blanket or a pair of > chappals. > > Samri Devi's is one among millions of households in rural India that might > be described as "destitute". These households typically have no able-bodied > adult member and no regular source of income. They survive by doing a > variety of informal activities such as gathering food from the village > commons, making baskets, selling minor forest produce and keeping the odd > goat. > > We met Samri Devi during a recent survey of destitution in five States > (Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh), > conducted by researchers from the Centre for Development Economics and the > Centre for Equity Studies. We were shocked to find that even in prosperous > villages some households lived in conditions of extreme poverty and hunger. > A casual visitor is unlikely to notice them, as destitute households keep a > low profile and are often socially invisible. But if you look for them, you > will find them, quietly struggling to earn their next meal or patiently > starving in a dark mud hut. From this, one point is clear: destitute > households cannot rely on spontaneous community support. Social security > arrangements are needed. > > As things stand, however, destitute households are beyond the pale of most > development programmes and welfare schemes. They are unable to participate > in rural employment programmes, if available. Getting a bank loan is for > most of them beyond the realm of possibility. Even "self-help groups" tend > to shun them. Some destitute households are able to take advantage of > pension schemes such as those meant for widows and the aged, but the > coverage of these schemes is very limited and the formalities involved > often > end up excluding the poorest of the poor. > > In this sea of neglect, an island of hope has recently emerged — the > Antyodaya Anna Yojana. This programme, introduced in early 2001 (despite > predictable objections from the Finance Ministry), is addressed to the > poorest of the poor, as identified by gram panchayats and gram sabhas. > Antyodaya households have special ration cards and are entitled to 35 kg of > grain a month at highly subsidised prices (Rs. 2 a kg for wheat and Rs. 3 a > kg for rice). > > The survey mentioned earlier indicates that the programme is doing well, in > sharp contrast with other components of the public distribution system > (PDS). First and foremost, the selection of Antyodaya households appears to > be quite fair: among the 450 Antyodaya households living in the sample > villages, a large majority turned out to be very poor. Nearly two thirds of > these households are constrained to skip meals from time to time. More than > half do not own a single blanket or quilt. Only two per cent of the sample > households lived in economic conditions described by the field > investigators > as "better than average", compared with other households in the village. In > other words, the community-based selection procedure is working. Antyodaya > also seems to be reasonably successful in terms of the timely and effective > distribution of food rations. This is particularly so in Andhra Pradesh, > where most of the sample households had received their full quota every > month since the programme was initiated. Taking the five sample States > together, we estimated that the average Antyodaya household obtained close > to 75 per cent of its full entitlement since the programme began. Regarding > the quality of grain received, 85 per cent of the respondents described it > as "average" or "good". And while the prices charged to the Antyodaya > households were occasionally higher than the official issue prices, the > extent of overcharging is not very large — about 13 per cent on average. > > This is not to say that the programme is flawless. In some areas > (particularly in Jharkhand), we found that many Antyodaya households had > been deprived of their entitlements, as ration-shop dealers took advantage > of their powerlessness. Yet, the experience so far strongly suggests that > these failures can be addressed and that the basic approach underlying the > Antyodaya programme is quite sound. > > The main limitation of the Antyodaya Anna Yojana, seen as a social security > programme, is its restricted coverage (less than 5 per cent of the rural > population). But there is absolutely no difficulty in expanding and > consolidating it. Today, it absorbs less than three million tonnes of food > per year — a trivial proportion of the country's aggregate food stocks of > 65 > million tonnes. An expanded programme of Antyodaya-style social security > for > the destitute, covering (say) 10 per cent of the rural population with > enhanced entitlements of 10 kg of grain per person a month, would require > about eight million tonnes of grain per year. This is a small price to pay > for protecting the rural population from extreme poverty. > > It is useful to see the case for a major expansion of the Antyodaya > programme in the context of the "problem" of ballooning food stocks in the > country. The needs and rights of destitute households should of course be > the primary consideration, but as it happens, there are also independent > reasons why food transfers to the destitute are a good way of using the > surplus grain stocks. First, the overhead costs of these food transfers are > low. This is a crucial consideration, because overhead costs have been the > main stumbling block in the way of other constructive uses of food stocks, > such as mid-day meals and food-for-work programmes. Second, food transfers > to the destitute also have the advantage of boosting the aggregate > consumption of foodgrains. Indeed, since there is widespread hunger among > destitute households, most of the food given to them translates into > additional consumption. In contrast, food transfers made under programmes > such as school meals or food-for-work create little additional demand for > foodgrains, as they substitute to a large extent for food that would > otherwise be bought in the market. This, too, is a crucial point, because > in > the absence of additional demand the only long-term solution to the problem > of ballooning food stocks (short of exporting them) is to reduce > procurement > prices, something that is unlikely to happen in the near future. > > In short, there is an overwhelming case for introducing a large programme > of > food-based social security for the destitute. The Antyodaya experience > shows > that this approach is feasible. A permanent programme along the same lines > is likely to work even better, as eligible households learn to claim their > entitlements. It would go a long way towards ending the extreme insecurity > and deprivation that ruin the lives of destitute households in rural India. > In addition, this is an economically attractive way of reducing the > country's bloated food stocks. There is little reason for hesitation. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 22:39:52 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:39:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Debates on this List In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70907310124o4c8825bdy8bd448ec28d33d2@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310236r346fb758y11275ee3667c7aa1@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <480DDBBC-86EA-4569-9A71-765351F81FA9@sarai.net> <6b79f1a70907310450p78900630xa87ac4f93cfacf66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907311009q2a9e82b5kb5c25554c1debd3a@mail.gmail.com> Our politicians are well aware of this statistics, but they dont seem to be bothered and are keen on ammassing wealth for their next few generations. Jinnah said that Hindus abd muslims cannot co-exist, and that was the intent at the time of partition in 1947. The monetary exchange in gold for the shift of the entire muslim population was handed over to Pakistan. Today the Hindu population in Pakistan is almost negligible, whereas in India the population has multiplied many-fold. The thought of yours should have some amount of reciprocation, which doesnt seem to be there as otherwise there would be no fathwas calling for ban on singing Vandemataram and the national anthem by the imams. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I thought a lot that such followers of Hindutva nationalism would realize > their folly and instead contribute to discussing about a better world. Even > if they were simply nationalists but would have thought from the people's > point of view (even if only Indian people), it would have been very helpful > to discuss many issues and really get to understand more. But now this > forum > seems to be only for people to go about discussing religions. > > I read a primer on ICDS (Integrated Child Development Scheme) put up on the > Right To Food Campaign Site. (www.righttofoodindia.org) It stated that > 'The > Hindu', one of the better newspapers of this country, had been publishing > more articles on the nuclear deal, defence issues, terrorism and higher > education than on ICDS. Infact, there were more articles published on > primary education rather than ICDS. And strangely, the ICDS which is a > campaign for children under six, states that if children aren't properly > looked at till that age, then any kind of education or treatment will not > be > able to compensate for this lack of care and the children would be mentally > and physically retarded. > > How many of us know that about 50% of the children under six in this > country > are malnourished? How many know that 1/3rd of the children in this country > under six are under-weight? How many know that micro-nutrients which are > very essential for the growth of children in this nation, are not being > given to them in sufficient manner? And how many know that the nutrient > value in the crops of this country has been decreasing in the past decade, > and so to get the same amount of nutrition, the amount of food to be > consumed would have to be increased? (The last question is something even > the Right to Food activists should know, considering that they are fighting > for food and nutrition for everyone.) > > Instead, we all have time for Hindu-Muslim debates. Even the Sarai Reader > issue discusses about fear as a topic (for which essays are invited), in > which one of the sections is about fear of riots. What about fear of > hunger? > Isn't that an important issue? (I am not an accomplished writer to discuss > about fear in the way it was mentioned in the link, but certainly would be > great if someone can write about the fear of hunger.) > > If we really feel Muslim and Hindu religions can't co-exist in this nation, > either all Hindus and Muslims should take swords and finish each other till > followers of only one religion exist, or alternatively bring about another > partition of this country (in a peaceful manner) so that this time people > of > both religions can live separately but somewhat peacefully. (Though how > much > peace that would bring is itself a doubt). Or may be both India and > Pakistan > should sign a pact to drop nuclear bombs on themselves and give the rest of > the world some peace and calm, and a few important lessons to learn as > well. > > > But it would only show how fickle and irresponsible we are to our brethren > who are economically destitute, politically powerless, and socially > subjugated. And it shows what we are: totally despicable criminals of the > worst kind, if we still forget them and keep on chanting Hindu-Muslim, > Ram-Allah, and fights of such kind. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From chhaya.shinde at crymail.org Wed Jul 29 10:53:58 2009 From: chhaya.shinde at crymail.org (Chhaya Shinde) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:53:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] CRY announce- National Child RIghts Research Fellowship 2009-10 Message-ID: <124CDD6AE49FA54A9C604769B4CD312B8FC12F04@cryexchange.crymail.org> National Child Rights Research Fellowships 2009 – 10 Childhood in India is not uniformly experienced; infact several childhoods co-exist, childhoods of social and economic status, physical and mental ability as well as geographical location to name a few. Respecting children as sovereign, equal members is a step towards recognising their voices in defining their best interest as participants and not just mute beneficiaries. Child Rights and You (CRY) welcomes applications exploring the various dimensions of child rights, the best interest principle, within the constitutional framework of Justice for Children. We seek new ideas, a combination of formal and informal approaches to explore and discover, simple and complex truths about the interplay of culture, laws, ethics and policies determining childhoods. Possible Focus Areas You are welcome to expand and interpret the themes, based on their life experiences and vision. v Creativity and imagination, in the experience and expression of childhoods, researching stories, folk songs, poems, as metaphors for social interactions v Explorations of the relationships of the child with other children, with the State, community and the family v Evidences of the assertion or rejection of the role of children in decision making arenas, such as home, school, work and play spaces and governing institutions v Gather evidence on relationships between ethnicity, inequality and conflict as witnessed and/or experienced by children v Is best interest principle, a value, a constitutional right, an interpretative advocacy instrument or a rule of law? Principles governing the Fellowship Eligibility: Applicants will be Indians residing in India, above the age of 18 years. Those previously awarded this fellowship are ineligible. Preference will be given to applicants who have studied in government schools, where no fees are charged. (Studies conducted and CRY's experiential learning of working with over 2000 deprived communities in villages and urban slums demonstrates that students attending government schools are primarily Dalits, tribals, girls and children from female headed and/or landless households.) It is expected that potential fellows ascribe to the CRY values: Respect for Human Dignity; Secularism; Non-Violence; Accountability; Innovation Transparency; Working in Partnership Language: Applicants may choose to work in any Indian language including English. Please clearly indicate the language, you plan to work with. As assessment of the application, will be conducted both in English and your working language, please include an English translation of the proposal, CV and work sample. Grant Sizes: In all up-to 10 fellowships for grant sizes ranging from Rs.50, 000 to Rs.1 lakh will be awarded. These will be support grants and fellows are free to continue their primary occupation. Proposals above one lakh will not be reviewed. Essential requirements 1. A three-page proposal, which briefly explains your topic of study, outlines the research question within a framework, proposed methodology, time schedules, a reading list of related literature/existing studies on the subject and a detailed budget 2. A two-page CV 3. A sample of your published or unpublished paper/article or any documentation done on a related theme. Proposals whose duration exceeds a year will not be reviewed Selected fellows will participate in an initial workshop to share research plans and gain from the collective experience closer to March 2010 and will also participate at a half yearly sharing meeting. CRY will sponsor travel, boarding and lodging for both these meetings. Short-listed applicants will have opportunity to share their ideas and future plans, in conversation with members of the CRY assessment team. Dissemination: Research results will be made available to activists, academics, development practitioners and interested general public through multiple fora, including language translations to influence the course of the debate on child rights and the best interest principle. Ownership: While fellows will retain authorship of the final research report and content, all information and insights gathered will be open access and available to the widest possible numbers, for no charge. Fellows are free to publish the insights of their research efforts, with appropriate acknowledgement to the National Child Rights Research Fellowship and CRY. If your proposal is part of a submission to any academic institution it will be ineligible for this fellowship as also if the fellow is already receiving funding for conduct of the research proposed. In case during the course of the Fellowship, the fellow feels the need to expand the scope and add greater depth, it is expected that CRY will be informed first about the need for additional funds. Also any other donors reached out to will be informed about CRY support for the principal work. Last Date for application is September 12th, 2009. Please E-mail your application to: research at crymail.org in the absence of internet access you may send your application by post to CRY-Child Rights and You, Documentation Centre, 189 A, Anand Estate, Sane Guruji Marg, Mumbai 400011. The names of researchers awarded the Fellowship will be announced on the CRY website Latest by April 2010. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Jul 21 15:14:19 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:44:19 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_August_2009=3A_C?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ologneOFF_in_Indonesia_and_more?= Message-ID: <20090721114419.31CB2B49.659A0072@192.168.0.3> CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival - http://coff.newmediafest.org is very proud to announce the next partner festival in August 2009 –> OK Video Festival Jakarata/Indonesia - 28 July -9 August 2009 at National Gallery of Indonesia (Jakarata) http://www.okvideofestival.org/ Go to the festival profile on netMAXX - networked magazine http://maxx.nmartproject.net/?p=74 CologneOFF will present a special selection on the topic "comedy" in its widest sense, curated by CologneOFF director, Wilfried Agricola de Cologne featuring films by Andreja Andric (Croatia), Gabriel Shalom (USA), Unnur A. Einarsdottir (Iceland), Carla Della Beffa (Italy), Michael Fortune (Ireland), Ji Hyun Kim (South Korea), Laurent Pernot (France), Miri Nishri (Israel), G.H. Hovagimyan (USA), Rami Fischler (Australia), Ina Loitzl (Austria), Alberto Magrin (Italy), Oksana Shatalova (Kazakhstan). -------------------------------------------------------------- FILE - Hipersonica Festival Sao Paulo/Brazil - 27 July - 30 August 2009 http://www.file.org.br is presenting --> SoundLAB VI - Sound POOL - sound compositions a challenge for imagination by SoundLAB -sonic art project environments curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne http://soundlab.newmediafest.org/blog/?p=215 -------------------------------------------------------------- FILE - Electronic Language Festival - Sao Paulo/Brazil - 27 July - 30 August 2009 http://www.file.org.br - is presenting in its media art section these videos by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne --> Silent Cry - http://movingpictures.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog?page_id=47, and --> timedOUT - http://movingpictures.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog?page_id=44 -------------------------------------------------------------- One Minute - International Film &Video Festival -Aarau/CH - 21-23 August 2009 is screening Wilfried Agricola de Cologne's film --> Burning Phantom - http://movingpictures.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog?page_id=52 -------------------------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - http://coff.newmediafest.org VideoChannel - http://videochannel.newmediafest.org VIP - VideoChannel Interview Project - http://vip.newmediafest.org VAD - Video Art Database - http://vad.nmartproject.net are dedicated to art forms of film and video in the framework of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net info (at) nmartproject.net --------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From press at tank.tv Fri Jul 24 19:22:05 2009 From: press at tank.tv (tank.tv press) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:52:05 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] www.tank.tv Now Showing : Jacco Olivier Message-ID: <78c84f090907240652ufc6b966p3020db4894dc8886@mail.gmail.com> *www.tank.tv **Jacco Olivier 22nd July - 11th August 2009 on www.tank.tv tank.tv is pleased to present nine of Jacco Olivier’s animated works online at www.tank.tv from the 22nd July - 11th August 2009. The show will include work made between 2003 and 2009: 'BMK', 'Birds', 'Submerge', 'Sleep', 'Transit', 'Wood', 'Return', 'Run' and 'Almost'.* tank.tv is pleased to present a showcase of the work of Dutch artist Jacco Olivier. The short videos exemplify the dense painterly technique that has come to define Olivier within the realm of moving image and position him somewhere between painter, filmmaker and animator. Each work is "a slice of life" and the effect is of a feeling forgotten or a mystery unravelling. By witholding the signpost of narrative Olivier leaves viewers examining their own desires for these little, emotive pieces which seem like so much flotsam from the artist's own life. Whilst Olivier's technique describes intense labour the videos appear and disappear leaving the viewer in their deep, gentle wake. Jacco Olivier was born in 1972 in the Netherlands. He lives and works in Amsterdam. Visit www.tank.tv to explore Jacco Olivier's work as well as our online archive of previously exhibited work. -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA press at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Jacco Olivier 22nd July - 11th August 2009 Fresh Moves - Out now! Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Jul 27 18:50:22 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:50:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] omeone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed Message-ID: omeone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed An act, an image, a possibility Exhibition opening: Tuesday 4th August, 2009, 6-8pm. The title of this exhibition is a simple sentence that presents us with an act, an image, and a possibility. It evokes a certain kind of poetic potentiality in the everyday, and opens a door for exploration into things that can be simultaneously meaningless and meaningful depending on how and from where you’re looking and feeling. Someone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed draws upon this potentiality in order to open up a space in which to creatively explore and discuss the idea of the life in art. The exhibition will bring together a range of eclectic works which respond to the central concerns of the exhibition in diverse, engaging and at times wonderfully contradictory ways. There will be bread from Kashmir, painting as digital confetti, a domestic clothes line, short stories, sounds from Delhi’s streetscape, paper airplanes and childhood dreams, a typography of accidental signs made from egg cartons, an exploration of the systematization of behavior, videos of wandering lamps, of water colour portraits coming to life, of thirst and labour, factories and making, of borders and transgression, of the politics of female toilet signs, cleanliness and communication, images of war danced, and of breath, life, and the creative process. Public interventions will enter the gallery and as works emerge from the site directly; the gallery space itself will become a site of intervention. The curatorial approach works to create juxtapositions of perspective and ideas, to build subtle associations, and to assemble the space as a larger participatory project in itself through the idea of facilitating shared experience. The participating artists in the exhibition includes established and emerging artists as well as practitioners who don’t usually, or have never before, labeled themselves as artists at all, and will bring together in the School of Arts and Aesthetics Galleries of JNU works from Delhi, Bangalore, Pune, Sydney, Melbourne, Seoul, New York and Guatemala City. Participating artists include Ingrid Dernee, Dipa Donde, Dhruba Dutta, Manola K. Gayatri, Bani Gill, Natasha Ginwala, Iram Ghufran, Rosita Holmes, Alana Hunt, Ish, Thomas Jacob, Ein Lall, Sophea Lerner, Ila Mehrotra, Ojasvi Mohanty, Arka Mukhopadhyay, Grace Needlman, Yoon Jung Oh, Aliya Pabani, Bhagwati Prasad, Andrew Robards, Paroma Sadhana, Inder Salim, Anthony Sawrey, Sylvia Schwenk, Beatriz Veliz and Anna Williams. This project has been initiated and curated by Alana Hunt. August 5 - 20, 2009 The School of Arts and Aesthetics Galleries, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi All are invited. For further information please contact (+91) 9811 989 325 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Jul 28 12:12:50 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (netEX) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:42:50 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_netEX=3A_calls_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_deadlines_--=3EAugust_2009?= Message-ID: <20090728084250.34A94713.2894B364@192.168.0.3> netEX: calls & deadlines -->August 2009 ------------------------------------- [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne newsletter contents calls & deadlines 04 Calls: 2009 deadlines internal 10 Calls: August 2009 deadlines external 9 Calls: ongoing external/internal ------------------------------------------------ Calls & deadlines ---> ------------------------------------------------ 2009: deadlines internal Deadline: 30 September A Virtual Memorial - memorial project environments is looking for artists who work on the subject "SHOAH" in digital media, primarily videoart/filmart, but also netart, soundart, digital photography and media installation http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=662 Deadline: 1 September CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival is looking for film and video submissions for its 5th festival edition to be launched in November 2009 on the topics "violence" & "taboo" http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1030 special section for German film & videos http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=694 **Deadline 1 September CologneOFF Online Film Festival sucht deutsche Autoren von Kurzfilmen und -videos fur ein Feature im Rahmen des 5. Festivalausgabe, welche im November 2009 veroffentlicht wird http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=694 *extended Deadline 31 August 2009 Cinematheque - streaming media project environments call: Flash & Thunder - Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 ------------------------------------------------ August 2009 deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 31 August soundart for Sound of EBB http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1308 31 August Soundart for Consemble (UK) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=640 30 August Flag Metamorphoses - animation project by Myriam Thyes http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1183 7 August Going Underground 8 8th International Subway Film Festival Berlin http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=996 5 August namaTRE.ba - film & video art Trebinje/Bosnia-Hercegovina http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1118 3 August Digital’09 - Mysteries in Science http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1242 1 August AC Institute (Direct Chapel) - New York/NY/USA - Realit(y/ies) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1233 1 August Amber’09 Festival Istanbul/Turkey http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1125 1 August Visionaria - Toscana Video Festival Piombino/Italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=636 1 August Aspect Magazine: New Media - Influence & Reference http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1193 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external/internal ----------------------------------------------- -->Videos for Bivouac Projects Sumter/USA -->OUTCASTING - web based screenings -->Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) -->Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil -->Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery -->Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland -->Project: Repetition as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen -->US webjournal Atomic Unicorn seeks netart and video art for coming editions -->TAGallery and more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # netEX - networked experiences is a free information service powered by [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From tajender at popsamiti.com Thu Jul 30 15:05:46 2009 From: tajender at popsamiti.com (tajender) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:35:46 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Debating South Asian art & culture - Wed 19 Aug 2009 - Borders Charing Cross In-Reply-To: Message-ID: _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From difusion at medialab-prado.es Fri Jul 31 13:53:07 2009 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (difusion) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:23:07 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Call for Projects and Papers on Public Data Visualization (Madrid) Message-ID: <4A72A9EB.4050805@medialab-prado.es> **Visualizar'09: Public Data, Data in Public Call for projects and papers *International Workshop-Seminar on Public Data Visualization November 12 - 27, 2009 in Medialab-Prado (Madrid, Spain) Deadline for projects and papers: October 5, 2009* *Call for collaborators: October 16 - November 11, 2009* http://medialab-prado.es/visualizar Directed by José Luis de Vicente. Teachers: Ben Cerveny (Stamen) and Aaron Koblin. With the support of Bestiario. This new edition will focus on the implications of using data structure visualization to aid in public processes of decision-making. Selected projects and papers will tackle the topic of Open Data and Visualization for Government Transparency and Civic Engagement. Visualizar'09 includes an* international seminar *and an *advanced project development workshop*. Both activities will tackle the topic of transparency of data to make public discussion and debate possible, regarding the political, social, and scientific processes. Consequently, one of the objectives of Visualizar'09 will be the development of new strategies for communicating these data and returning them to the public domain. All those interested in collaborating in one of the selected projects can sign in from* October 16 to November 11*. *Submission of databases:* Public databases of institutions or research groups interested in sharing them and making them more available to citizens can be sent to visualizar[arroba]medialab-prado.es or through http://medialab-prado.es/visualizar Submitted databases could serve as work material for data visualization projects selected for this workshop. *More information:* http://medialab-prado.es/article/convocatoria_de_proyectos__visualizar_09_datos_publicos_datos_en_publico visualizar(arroba)medialab-prado.es With the support of the Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology - Ministry of Science and Innovation (FECYT - Ministerio de Ciencia e Innovación) -- Nerea García Garmendia Comunicación / Press Medialab-Prado Área de Las Artes, Ayuntamiento de Madrid Plaza de las Letras Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid Tfno. +34 914 202 754 difusion at medialab-prado.es www.medialab-prado.es -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements