From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 02:54:57 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:24:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-21 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812311324u1715ce18r50ef3e9ab6d2a6ef@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1030203/asp/northeast/story_1632744.asp The Telegraph Monday, February 03, 2003 'Foreigner' tag on Hindu migrants OUR CORRESPONDENT *Shillong, Feb. 2: *The Khun Hynniewtrep National Awakening Movement (KHNAM), the political wing of the Khasi Students' Union (KSU), has decided to make influx of Hindus into Meghalaya a poll issue. The party wants to deny legal status to Hindu migrants who entered the state after March 24, 1971. Party president Paul Lyngdoh released a policy statement, which said: "Illegal Hindu migrants who have infiltrated after March 24, 1971, should not be granted refugee status". The policy statement, entitled "Meghalaya's economy and agenda for action", said it would treat migrants coming after the cut-off date as "illegal". According to the policy statement, "the relentless entry of people from other regions of the country is a threat to the indigenous people of the state". It claimed that "the exact number of 'illegal foreigners' who have entered the state is not available nor the numbers of the floating Indian population". While holding successive state governments responsible "for failure" to implement the provisions of the Foreigners Act, 1946, the policy statement said the problem of influx, if not checked, would "cause serious demographic imbalance in the state". The party emphatically announced in its policy statement that it would bring about major changes if voted to power. It said it would issue multipurpose photo identity cards to genuine citizens while a revised version of the inner line permit system, keeping all its plus points intact, would be introduced. Other political parties in the state, however, have dismissed fears of "influx by Hindus" as "misleading" and a "catchy political issue". Senior Congress legislator from Mawprem constituency, D.N. Joshi, was of the opinion that "there cannot be any cut-off year for people of Indian origin, be they Hindus or from any other religion". He was critical of the fact that while infiltration occurs from across the Bangladesh border, Hindus belonging to the country were being made scapegoats. "People from the country have the right to settle anywhere and even the Centre would not prevent Indians from moving about in their own country," he said. Pointing out the "dwindling" non-tribal population in the state, Joshi said "due to stringent measures" such as the bar on purchase of land and lack of jobs, people from the non-tribal community have been compelled to migrate. BJP legislator from Pynthormukhrah, Alexander Laloo Hek, also felt that such laws could not be imposed. Though he did not want to comment on the issue, he sounded sceptical whether a state could raise such a demand. [image: Top] From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 02:58:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:28:31 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-22 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812311328m167ea2of0a3bf428d8a89e0@mail.gmail.com> *http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FJ02Df03.html South Asia 2 October, 2004 Smart cards make inroads into Asia* By Raja M MUMBAI - As governments in a violence-ripped world build techno-fortresses, computer chip-driven bits of plastic flap as wonder cards driving the next sunrise industry. Smart cards usually have multi-purpose lives, from being national ID cards to tools for buying bus tickets or paying the petrol pump bill. But, as privacy activists warn, smart cards could also be gilt-coated Trojan Horses for snooping governments, terrorists and crooks. Essentially, computer chip-embedded plastic cards that store and transact data, smart cards are expected to be a US$6.8 billion global business this year. Unit shipments were over 2 billion cards in 2003, according to Jafizwaty Ishahak, industry analyst for smart cards and auto ID with consultants Frost & Sullivan. She told Asia Times Online that the Asia-Pacific region alone accounts for about 34% of the volume. With Malaysia's MyKad, Hong Kong's Smart Identity Card System (SMARTICS), Taiwan's Health Card, the Indian government's plan to have a multi-purpose national ID card and South Korea aiming for public official ID cards by 2005, companies such as Sony, Infineon and Hitachi are smacking their lips. Says Ishahak: "India along with the rest of South Asia is an active emerging market that shows lots of promise for growth." Experts estimate the Indian smart card industry, growing at 45% annually, will reach $6 billion by 2010. In the next five years, the Indian smart card population is expected to increase eight-fold. Such happy times for smart card makers are feeding the growing banking and retailing industry, the cellular phone boom in India - estimated to be exploding at over 70% annually (smart cards are used in SIM cards of GSM mobile phones) - and big projects such as national ID card schemes. "Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, India and China are at the planning or pilot stage of launching a national smart ID card scheme," says Ishahak. Hong Kong's SMARTICS, which won a Gold Award in the 6th Hong Kong Computer Society IT Excellence Awards, represents a successful smart card use. With a photograph, identity details and fingerprint biometrics of each card owner, SMARTICS contains an electronic certificate for encrypted e-transactions. In a Hong Kong government press release, director of immigration Lai Tung-kwok said: "ID cards with multi-application is not only an identification document but lays a solid foundation for e-applications and e-commerce." While India plans its multi-purpose national ID card scheme, provincial governments have already launched smart card projects for driving licenses, vehicle registration, social security, health and other uses. Later this year, Brihanmumbai Electricity Supply and Transport (BEST) is scheduled to launch an automatic fare collection in Mumbai buses through smart card technology. BEST, besides being the major electricity supplier in Mumbai, holds the monopoly for public bus services in the city. "We plan to first issue smart card machines in 57 buses," A S Tamboli, chief spokesperson for BEST, told Asia Times Online. "With bus conductors carrying smart card reading machines, the scheme will help reduce cumbersome ticket transactions." BEST plans to use the smart card facility in 394 of its 3,380-strong bus fleet in the first phase. The smart card won't cost BEST anything, says Tamboli, with the card company planning to use it as a multi-purpose utility including credit/debit card facilities. Mid-September, the Delhi transport department will be using smart optical cards for new vehicle registrations, with add-ons such as vehicle history storage, log, tax, insurance, accidents and other requirements under the Motor Vehicle Act. Fortunately for smart card merchants in India, privacy is yet to be a big talking point, unlike in the West, where the presence of biometric identifiers such as fingerprints, iris (eye) scans, or facial recognition systems in ID cards has sparked off a debate that lurches between security and privacy. The Electronic Frontier Foundation dismissed national ID schemes as a "solution in search of a problem". According to the EEF, it opposes the national ID scheme in the United States because there is "no compelling case for its utility or effectiveness as a crime-fighting tool because of the costs (dollars, privacy, and liberty) involved and its high potential for abuse by entities in both public and private sectors". Privacy International, the London-based human-rights group formed in 1990 as a watchdog on surveillance and privacy invasions by governments and corporations, says America's Patriot Act indirectly squeezes countries into the US security program. The Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act, 2002 entails countries to have machine-readable, tamper-resistant passports to qualify for the visa waiver program. The Indian government took a major step toward spreading smart card use by a standardized operating system called SCOSTA (Smart Card Operating System for Transport Application) developed by the Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur, as the standard operating system for driving licenses and other transport-related projects. A Frost & Sullivan report in 2003 listed the bigger bottlenecks for the Indian smart card market: "Low purchasing power, low technology awareness and cultural shifts, delay in approval standards, other cheaper competing technologies and poor allied infrastructure such as telecom, ATMs and card readers, etc." According to an industry professional, smart cards in India are estimated to cost around $2 to $4 a person. But the system to enable use of smart cards could cost a business establishment around $1,000. Worse costs could lurk. Privacy International warns that no smart card technology is secure enough to escape fakes issued by terrorist and criminal gangs. Besides, there could be inevitable goof-ups. In 2002, personal data was leaked from Japan's new nationwide identification system only two days after the controversial program was launched. Personal information of over 2,500 people was sent to the wrong people, the Osaka regional government admitted shamefacedly. The system already faced widespread protests and opposition even before the blunder, with fears of individual privacy violation and abuse. Months earlier, the Japanese Defense Agency was found to have been secretly compiling private information on people who had requested documents under the country's Freedom of Information Act. Security worries can be contained, says a leading semi-conductor company. "The authentication can happen on the card itself so that personal data do not have to leave the card," Reiner Schnrock, a senior director at the Munich-based Infineon Technologies AG, told Asia Times Online. "Through the use of smart cards, personal data can be stored decentrally on the card." A better way ahead to avoid such abuse, believe some experts, would be to develop smart cards more as e-commerce and e-governance tools to access government services rather than as the more controversial national ID cards. However, in cash-strapped Indian states, money, more than privacy and security, seems a bigger issue with the whole deal. *Raja M is an independent writer based in Mumbai, India. * From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 03:04:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:34:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-23 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812311334x46aa45d4p514aa7c71ec793f3@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/773237.cms Times of India India Govt considering national identity cards 10 Jul 2004, 1245 hrs IST, PTI NEW DELHI: Government on Saturday said it is "actively considering" issuing multi-purpose national identity cards (MNICs) to all citizens but voiced serious concern over India's burgeoning population, which was expected to overtake that of the most populous country China in the year 2035. "Every person in the country will be provided national identity cards and given a unique national identity number," Home Minister Shivraj Patil said inaugurating a seminar on Census Data Dissemination here. A pilot project covering 30 lakh population spread over 13 states and union territories is currently going on. Its basic aim is to create a National Population Register which will have both the National Register of Indian Citizens and that for non-citizens. To this effect, the necessary amendment to the Citizenship Act, 1955 has been recently carried out to provide for compulsory registration of all citizens. "The success of the project would depend on timely and complete updating of this register which again partly depends on complete registration of births and deaths," Patil said. The MNIC project, the Minister said, once completed will not only enhance the security cover of the country but also facilitate national level e-governance programme which is one of the important agenda items of the Common Minimum Programme to ensure that Government services reach people in every nook and corner. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 03:08:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:38:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-24 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812311338w5682c784teb19fac752c84cd0@mail.gmail.com> http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=91199 Indian Express Pune Edition Tuesday , July 13, 2004 EC plans biometric I-cards A long-term plan, extension of multi-purpose national identity card project Vishwas Kothari Pune, July 12: The Election Commission is toying with the idea of introducing the use of biometric identification features like thumb impression embedded in electronically-readable cards to check poll rigging. ''They (biometric cards) are a little farther away but a desirable goal possible with the use f electronic technology,'' Election Commissioner (EC) of India N Gopalaswami told The Indian Express on the sidelines of a training programme on 'Electoral management and administration' at the Yashwantrao Chavan Academy of Development Administration (YASHADA) here on Monday. Advertisement This forms part of the long-term plans and is not likely to be effective during elections in the near future, he added. The biometric I-cards may come as an extension of the ambitious multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) project under active consideration by the government. Citing Home Minister Shivraj Patil's statement last Saturday, Gopalaswami said the ministry had already embarked on a pilot project covering a population of 30 lakh spread over 13 states and Union territories. The idea is to ultimately provide a national identity card with an identity number to all citizens and thereby creating a national population register (NPR). ''Our first requirement will be cards having biometric features included. Once the Home Ministry's experiment is successful, the same can be borrowed. The same cards can form the basis for polls later on,'' he said. ''Nations like the United Kingdom, which is working on a similar project, are talking of 2013 as the targeted deadline because they must have made a positive assessment of the problems such a project faces especially covering the last 5 per cent of the population,'' he said. He said the Commission had accorded top priority to ensuring that complaints of missing names from the electoral rolls — witnessed on a large-scale during the March Lok Sabha polls — are not repeated. ''We have taken a fairly extensive and ambitious programme of enlightening voters and I am sure that will pay dividends,'' he said. Logistics was the other problem that the Commission will have to tackle. ''Maharashtra has never presented any poll-related law-and-order problem in the past,'' Gopalaswami pointed out. NO POLLS DURING FEST EC N Gopalaswami said the dates for Assembly elections in Maharashtra had not yet been finalised. He assured that the Commission would consider the request by political parties that the dates be finalised after giving apt consideration to the 10-day Ganesh festival in September, when large section of the population are on vacation. ''That definitely will be done,'' he said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 03:41:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:11:38 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] What has insanity to do with infiltration? A lot, say figures Message-ID: <65be9bf40812311411o18434ab7h22722eaba202b887@mail.gmail.com> * http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/what-has-insanity-to-do-with-infiltration-a-lot-say-figures/404943/ Indian Express *Vikram Rautela Posted: Dec 31, 2008 at 0335 hrs IST *Ahmedabad* *Nearly 7% of those caught were mentally unsound. Intelligence agencies say it needs to be probed* If you think illegally trespassing into India or Pakistan requires intelligence and a sharp brain to dupe extra vigilant security agencies manning the frontier, then think again. According to figures, more than seven per cent of those apprehended while crossing the Indo-Pak International Border in Gujarat in the last five years, were "insane". Intelligence agencies, however, frown at this insanity theory and say it needs to be probed properly. According to figures accessed by this newspaper, a total of 359 people, including infiltrators as well as those who were caught while attempting to sneak into Pakistan from the Indian side, were apprehended at the Gujarat frontier by the Border Security Force between 2004 and 2008. Of these, a total of 27, according to the records, were insane or at least believed to be so. Intelligence officers, however, say that some of these persons could only be posing as insane in a bid to dupe the police and carry out their mission discreetly under the guise of a mentally-unstable person. Additional Director General of Police (Intelligence) P P Pandey said: "Posing as being insane after being caught is a gimmick we come across several times. While most of them break down during the joint interrogation by the different agencies and confess to having pretended being insane (apparently in a bid to dupe the security agencies), some are genuinely insane." Pandey also did not rule out the possibility that some of these people could be anti-nationals, terrorists or even Pakistani spies. "This possibility cannot be ruled out completely. We have alerted security agencies and the state police in the bordering areas to be watchful about this." The BSF, which nabs such people most of the time, says it hands them over to the state police. They are later interrogated at the Joint Interrogation Centre (JIC) in Bhuj. "Whether these pople are actually insane is a matter of police investigation," said BSF Inspector General G S Shekhawat. Wabang Jamir, the Superintendent of Police, Kutch-Bhuj, who heads the JIC, said: "We come across such cases very often. In fact, there was a Bangladeshi national, who was apprehended by the BSF while trying to sneak into Pakistan. This man not only pretended insanity but also acted deaf and dumb for several days. He finally broke down and confessed that it was a gimmick to dupe us." At present, the JIC houses close to 100-odd foreigners caught for paperless travel to India. The JIC also has a competent psychologist, who examines these people and certifies their mental status. "It is only after this certificate that we consider such people insane and initiate the process of their deportation," said Jamir. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 03:48:17 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:18:17 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration from Bangladesh cannot be completely plugged, says BSF chief New Delhi Message-ID: <65be9bf40812311418y7455678dr822bde50b915a653@mail.gmail.com> Web India 123.com http://news.webindia123.com/news/ar_showdetails.asp?id=711300235&cat=&n_date=20071130 November 30, 2007 New Delhi | November 30, 2007 11:15:05 AM IST Border Security Force (BSF) Director General A K Mitra has said that it was impossible to stop infiltration along India's porous borders with Bangladesh. "I believe that we cannot completely control infiltration through the India-Bangladesh border. But that doesn't mean we stop our efforts towards achieving the same. It is very porous border and even today many areas are not fenced because of geographical barriers," said Mitra. India shares a 4096-kilometer border with Bangladesh out of which the land border stretch is around 2979 kilometers and the remaining 1116-kilometer stretch in the riverline border, only 66 percent of fencingof the total stretch is complete. New Delhi estimates there are up to 20 million illegal Bangladeshi immigrants in India. Bangladesh denies the charges. India is building a barbed wire fence to prevent unauthorized movement of people across the border. Dhaka does not oppose the fencing per se, but objects when it is built too close to the zero line on the land and river line border. (ANI) From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 12:03:30 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:03:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Army wanted Abdullah. Any surprises here? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812310459m5b2a91abwb87990bb1ec53869@mail.gmail.com> References: <1fd66c110812310452m2570e6b3v676214e75bae2222@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812310459m5b2a91abwb87990bb1ec53869@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812312233m31ea6349oe69fcd21ee2345a3@mail.gmail.com> yeah lol Typical of Shivam! Jai Hind! On 12/31/08, Pawan Durani wrote: > > yeah ...nothing surprising including the way you think...little Johnny.... > > > pawan > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Shivam V wrote: > > > Army support is where the Abdullahs score over Muftis > > > > By Ashish Sinha in New Delhi > > Mail Today, 30 December 2008 > > http://mailtoday.in/30122008/epaperhome.aspx > > > > NSG commandos protecting the Abdullah family, especially patriarch > > Farooq, are a happy lot because the former chief minister takes good > > care of them and has a more " mainstream" view of matters political. > > > > The contrast, mainly with the People's Democratic Party ( PDP), is > > significant as Mufti Mohammad Sayeed's attempts to simultaneously ride > > two boats — of " soft separatism" while sounding " national" — were > > detested by the security forces, especially the Army. > > > > Any political decision on Kashmir — especially when the ball is in the > > Congress's court — cannot afford to ignore the sentiments of lakhs of > > troops stationed here because, at least for now, they appear to be a > > more permanent fixture than any party, even the National Conference ( > > NC). > > > > Personnel who have fought militancy in Kashmir say the " return of > > democracy" here cannot mean a retreat of the troops to the barracks. > > It is here that the Abdullahs surge ahead of the Muftis, especially as > > the PDP's plan of storming the assembly on a separatist agenda failed. > > > > Within the NC, the son scores over his father. Omar is seen as someone > > who means business and is capable of addressing the concerns of the > > youth, the most restless and wronged section of Kashmir today. > > > > When Farooq took over the NC from his father Sheikh Abdullah in 1981 — > > he became CM the next year — he was a political novice and pedigree > > was mainly why the baton came to him. But Omar, who represents the > > eagerness of the babalog s of Indian politics to make a difference, > > has a better track record. Only 38, he has been thrice elected to the > > Lok Sabha and was a Union MoS for over three years, handling commerce > > and external affairs in the NDA government. > > > > Kashmir is a society where the oft- promised dream of development- > > driven good days ahead has not been realised. > > > > "Farooq was in control of Kashmir twice during the troubled times — > > first from 1986 to 1990 and then from 1996 to 2002. But at the > > grassroots, he is still seen as a typical politician," said a senior > > BSF officer, adding " Omar is perceived as a firebrand leader > > committed to making a difference within the operating principle of J& > > K being an integral part of India. For a society ravaged by years of > > violence, that promise means a lot." > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 12:29:17 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:59:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Student ties trump Indo-Pak tension Message-ID: <120051.70519.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Student ties trump Indo-Pak tension 1 Jan 2009, 0512 hrs IST, TNN MUMBAI: Perhaps it's a sign of better things to come. Indian teenagers who were in Pakistan at the time of the terrorist attacks on Mumbai said students from both countries grew closer even as the two countries were beginning to prepare for war. The Indian students, who were in Lahore to attend the Lahore University Model United Nations, say their view of the neighbouring country changed dramatically after the interaction. Shouryendu Ray, an 18-year-old from Mumbai, landed in Pakistan a little over an hour before the terrorists struck Mumbai. "I was having dinner when I heard the news. I was worried sick about my family back home," he said. "I was so disturbed by the attacks that I thought I wouldn't attend the first session of the model UN the next morning," he added. But thanks to the warmth and support shown by the Pakistani students he was staying with, he changed his mind. Nineteen-year-old Shruti Ojha, another Indian delegate at the model UN, said, "I was anti-Pakistan even before the terror attacks. I thought that after the attacks, I'd face a great deal of hostility in Pakistan. But I was surprised at how well everybody treated me." Ray recounts his experience of shopping in Lahore. A watch which cost Rs 5,000 caught his eye. The shopkeeper was so delighted to learn that Ray was Indian that he sold him the watch at half-price, and wouldn't let him leave without a soft drink. The elderly rickshaw driver who ferried the Indian delegates around Lahore said it was his dream to visit India. The students recalled that he told them, "Even if I can't come to India, I'm glad I've at least been able to show Indians around." Ojha, too, spoke of the affection showered on her in Pakistan. When she was readying to leave, Sana Maqbool, a Pakistani student who shared her dormitory, gifted her a ring as a memento. If the Indian students brought back stories of warmth and affection, they also left behind some of their own. Tajwar Awan, a 20-year-old student at the prestigious Lahore University of Management Sciences, said she had thought all Indians were anti-Muslim until she had the opportunity of interacting with Indian students at the Model UN. "I was extremely worried about the Indian students after the terror attack," said Awan, speaking to TOI from Lahore. The bonds between the students on both sides of the border continue despite stark contrasts in political views. Ray said a Pakistani friend recently left him a note on Facebook, asking why India was violating Pakistani airspace. "Why does the Indian press blame all India's problems on Pakistan?" asks Turab Hassan, a 19-year-old management student from Lahore. He's a member of Seeds of Peace, an international organisation that works with children from countries that are in conflict with each other. Hassan, who visited India in 2006, and who recalls seeing the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower, said he was disturbed to see images of the hotel on fire. "Terrorism is a problem faced by both India and Pakistan," he said, and added, "It's frustrating to see the way the Indian press has been attacking Pakistan." Ray and Ojha expressed similar concerns about the Pakistani press, which they said blamed India for the crisis. "The Pak papers were actually trying to justify the terrorist attack on Mumbai," said Ray. Friendships, however, trumped political differences. Hassan said he anxiously phoned all his Indian friends to ensure they were safe after the attacks. Indeed, many Indian students said they received a flurry of calls and emails from Pakistani friends after the terror attacks. "I've been in touch with many students in Pakistan after 26/11," said Samyak Chakrabarty, a Jai Hind College student who has worked closely with the UN. Chakrabarty has organised Model UN sessions in Mumbai, which were attended by several Pakistani students. anahita.mukherji at timesgroup.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 1 22:15:48 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 16:45:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Army wanted Abdullah. Any surprises here? In-Reply-To: <6353c690812312233m31ea6349oe69fcd21ee2345a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1fd66c110812310452m2570e6b3v676214e75bae2222@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812310459m5b2a91abwb87990bb1ec53869@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812312233m31ea6349oe69fcd21ee2345a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901010845m1f1b48eag1b67858752621052@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan, Dear Aditya, It is with a huge amount of admiration that I have read your mails in the past year. Admiration for the enthusiasm that you have shown to relentlessly pursue what you believe in. Don't you feel that if you take little more pain in articulating your ideas, especially your disagreements with other members on this list, you will perhaps be able to talk through to more people. You will be able to create a range of arguments to support your worldview in the public domain. You will be able to make other people see a point of view which you deem fit. There is nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree. Calling Shivam names, or laughing out aloud is perhaps a valid from of reaction but it is alienating. I think at best tagging and making fun does not prove or dis-approve anything, at worst it indicates a lack mental strength and stamina. I expect a robust, well thought out, sharp, biting, incisive, verbose, witty, argumentative and an exhaustive debate from you. Hope you shall live up to the expectations of many members like me on this list. Warm regards Taha On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > yeah lol > > Typical of Shivam! > > Jai Hind! > > On 12/31/08, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > yeah ...nothing surprising including the way you think...little > Johnny.... > > > > > > pawan > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Shivam V wrote: > > > > > Army support is where the Abdullahs score over Muftis > > > > > > By Ashish Sinha in New Delhi > > > Mail Today, 30 December 2008 > > > http://mailtoday.in/30122008/epaperhome.aspx > > > > > > NSG commandos protecting the Abdullah family, especially patriarch > > > Farooq, are a happy lot because the former chief minister takes good > > > care of them and has a more " mainstream" view of matters political. > > > > > > The contrast, mainly with the People's Democratic Party ( PDP), is > > > significant as Mufti Mohammad Sayeed's attempts to simultaneously ride > > > two boats — of " soft separatism" while sounding " national" — were > > > detested by the security forces, especially the Army. > > > > > > Any political decision on Kashmir — especially when the ball is in the > > > Congress's court — cannot afford to ignore the sentiments of lakhs of > > > troops stationed here because, at least for now, they appear to be a > > > more permanent fixture than any party, even the National Conference ( > > > NC). > > > > > > Personnel who have fought militancy in Kashmir say the " return of > > > democracy" here cannot mean a retreat of the troops to the barracks. > > > It is here that the Abdullahs surge ahead of the Muftis, especially as > > > the PDP's plan of storming the assembly on a separatist agenda failed. > > > > > > Within the NC, the son scores over his father. Omar is seen as someone > > > who means business and is capable of addressing the concerns of the > > > youth, the most restless and wronged section of Kashmir today. > > > > > > When Farooq took over the NC from his father Sheikh Abdullah in 1981 — > > > he became CM the next year — he was a political novice and pedigree > > > was mainly why the baton came to him. But Omar, who represents the > > > eagerness of the babalog s of Indian politics to make a difference, > > > has a better track record. Only 38, he has been thrice elected to the > > > Lok Sabha and was a Union MoS for over three years, handling commerce > > > and external affairs in the NDA government. > > > > > > Kashmir is a society where the oft- promised dream of development- > > > driven good days ahead has not been realised. > > > > > > "Farooq was in control of Kashmir twice during the troubled times — > > > first from 1986 to 1990 and then from 1996 to 2002. But at the > > > grassroots, he is still seen as a typical politician," said a senior > > > BSF officer, adding " Omar is perceived as a firebrand leader > > > committed to making a difference within the operating principle of J& > > > K being an integral part of India. For a society ravaged by years of > > > violence, that promise means a lot." > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 23:42:16 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:42:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ] Fwd: 'Little Baghdad' in Gaza - Bombs, Fear and Rage Message-ID: <47e122a70901011012y2e58abb9oea7bba0622377495@mail.gmail.com> 'Little Baghdad' in Gaza - Bombs, Fear and Rage By Amira Hass, Haaretz Correspondent December 28, 2008 "Haaretz" -- -There are many corpses and wounded, every moment another casualty is added to the list of the dead, and there is no more room in the morgue. Relatives search among the bodies and the wounded in order to bring the dead quickly to burial. A mother whose three school-age children were killed, and are piled one on top of the other in the morgue, screams and then cries, screams again and then is silent. Mustapha Ibrahim saw all this on Saturday at one in the afternoon, at Shifa Hospital in Gaza. As a field investigator for a human rights organization, he thought he'd been immunized, but nothing prepared him for what he saw. Wounded people whose situation was less than serious were asked to leave Shifa, in order to free up beds. Dr. Haidar Eid is a lecturer in Cultural Studies at Al-Aqsa University. He, too, saw the bodies and the wounded on Saturday. Also the children whose limbs had been amputated. "To pick a time like this, 11:30 [A.M.], to bomb in the hearts of cities, this is terrible. This choice was intended to cause as large a massacre as possible," he summed up. Abu Muhammad was 200 meters from the hospital, when an awful sound was heard: Three large police centers which were bombed, were located close to the hospital. "Within seconds, this was a little Baghdad, bombs everywhere, smoke, fire, people not knowing where to hide. Fear everywhere, and rage and hatred," he said. He himself ran to his daughters' school, like tens of thousands of other parents in the Strip. From 11:25 until 11:30, as some 50 warplanes bombed their targets, hundreds of thousands of children were in the streets. Some were coming from the first shift of classes, others were going to the second. "In the schoolyard I saw 500 frightened girls, crying. They did not know me, but clung to me," Abu Muhammad related. In the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood alone, there were 43 fatalities. One mourning tent was set up for all of them. Most of them were young policemen who had joined the civilian police and were killed during the course commencement ceremony. Training camps of the Izz-al Din al-Qassam and interrogation and detention centers were deserted when they were bombed. But police centers in the Strip, which give services to people, were teeming. No one believed that they would be bombed. In the afternoon, they were still looking for bodies in the debris. Khalil Shahin rushed to the police station in the center of the Strip. "A huge building, and all of it on the floor," he said. Some 30 people were killed there. He knew that his nephew, a civilian, was killed when he went to clear up some matter at the station. At first, teacher Umm Salah thought the explosion was a sonic boom. The whole building shook, all the glass, but the smoke and the clouds of dust, and the wails of ambulances, made clear that something much more horrible had taken place. The glass wounded a number of pupils. There were those who cried, there were those who were silent. She found her son in the maelstrom in the street. He had been taking a math test when the bombing began. They went back home together, finding his younger brother with their 70-year-old grandmother. The grandmother tried to hide her fear as she took care of her grandchildren. "There's been no electricity, nor gas, nor flour or bread nearly all of the past week," Umm Salah said. "And suddenly the electricity came back. I turned on the television, I saw the images, I turned it off and sent the kids to do their homework." --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "humanrights movement" group. To post to this group, send email to humanrights-movement at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to humanrights-movement+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/humanrights-movement?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 23:44:03 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:44:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: STOP GAZA SLAUGHTER!!!---Yvonne Ridley In-Reply-To: <82afb4ca0812311232w6b598491t692ac39e63306ee2@mail.gmail.com> References: <82afb4ca0812311232w6b598491t692ac39e63306ee2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901011014x64893f4eqe1abbaefacf5a0aa@mail.gmail.com> Anarchy In The UK (and the birth of SGS - STOP GAZA SLAUGHTER) By Yvonne Ridley December 28, 2008 "Information Clearinghouse" -- THE murderous military campaign which has been unleashed by Israel has provoked people across the world to demonstrate, rally and protest in their hundreds of thousands. Soon the movement will turn into millions as more ordinary, decent citizens of the world show their disgust at the barbarism of Israel ... and the cowardly silence of our own leaders. This is no longer a political issue, or a Middle East issue. It is a case of what is right and what is wrong, and what is decent and what is inhumane. And ordinary people are now taking the initiative because they can no longer rely on their political leaders to show any of the human qualities demanded of them including strength, integrity or compassion. British people, normally reserved and controlled, brought anarchy to the streets of upscale Kensington yesterday as they stormed barracades and pushed past police to head towards the Israeli Embassy in London. There was more anarchy in Scotland as our friends over the Border vented their spleen over the war crimes and massacre carried out by Israel. And unless British Prime Minister Gordon Brown gets some lead in his pencil, the anarchy will continue. I am normally a law-abiding citizen, but the anger and shame I felt drove me to join those who tore down the barriers on Saturday. Gordon Brown is the very man who lectured us about what it is to be British. Well let me turn the tables on this pathetic, self-serving man who does not deserve to lead our country. Being British is about fair play, justice and humanity ... standing up for the underdog in the face of bullies. Brown, like other leaders around the world, simply looked the other way as the Israeli military jackbooted its way through the blood dripped gutters once trawled by the Nazis to kill, massacre and maim. In the final days of December 2008 Gordon Brown will be remembered for acting like one of the silent cowards who hangs uncomfortably on the edge of the schoolyard as the bully kicks and thumps the little, weak child. And that feckless fool David Milliband is no better. While Brown told journalists he was "deeply concerned" over Israeli actions, the British Foreign secretary urged Israel to abide by its "humanitarian obligations". And it was their weasly words which was directly responsible for the lawlessness which erupted in the streets of London on Saturday, and I'll tell you why. I was outraged and ashamed by the weakness shown by Milliband and Brown and called my good friend Ghada Razuki. We have both been to Palestine and we have both been to Gaza and we were both repelled by the pathetic reaction of our government. So we decided to launch SGS - Stop Gaza Slaughter - and call for a rally. We began hitting the phones. Many organised groups were already planning a demonstration for the Sunday and they urged us to wait. One told me: "You do not have police permission". Almost choking with rage, I responded: "Permission? Permission to demonstrate and march and exercise my democratic right to protest? This is Britain! And did Israel ask anyone for permission to bomb Gaza?" But Ghada did call the police and inform them that we were planning a demo - in truth I thought around 30 of us might turn up to respond, but it seems that we were not the only ones who were outraged by the silence of Messrs Brown and Co. "I thought you said only 30 were going to turn up, there must be 3,000 here now," said one police officer. I just shrugged my shoulders and said I had no idea a few text messages, FaceBook and a blog could have resulted in such a turnout. In truth I am sure many who arrived in Kensington on Saturday would have come anyway. But what happened was pure 'people power' and this is what happens when you have a leader who commands little or no respect. When the people lead, the leaders will follow and I think in the next few days Brown's advisers will tell him that what the British people want is a real man who will stand up to the bullies. And if he doesn't there will be more anarchy and it will get worse. This is neither a threat nor a promise - just a prediction. If Brown wants to survive politically, he will have20to join us when we demonstrate on Saturday, January 3 - opposite the British Parliament. He needs to show us he is really man enough to lead this country. And on the subject of Saturday's demonstration - police permission is apparently being sought. I have some advice for the Metropolitan Police: "Do not try and stop the democratic right of every person in Britain to demonstrate." I am going to be there - with or without police permission. And if they want to arrest me and lock me up then so be it. Has it now become a crime to demonstrates against war crimes? Crimes against humanity are being carried out by Israel and I refuse to be silent. __._,_.___ From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 23:45:19 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:45:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored In-Reply-To: <82afb4ca0812311232h572b98far8958e18840334fa6@mail.gmail.com> References: <7ed216030812300302i1cdf4218rb0516c71d4ec44f0@mail.gmail.com> <82afb4ca0812311232h572b98far8958e18840334fa6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901011015q27bbda2ck4d51c2c0f22868ff@mail.gmail.com> Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more – providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs – who, as we all know, only understand force. Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis – just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" – as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course. The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel – rightly – but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" – as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv. By last night, the exchange rate stood at 296 Palestinians dead for one dead Israeli. Back in 2006, it was 10 Lebanese dead for one Israeli dead. This weekend was the most inflationary exchange rate in a single day since – the 1973 Middle East War? The 1967 Six Day War? The 1956 Suez War? The 1948 Independence/Nakba War? It's obscene, a gruesome game – which Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, unconsciously admitted when he spoke this weekend to Fox TV. "Our intention is to totally change the rules of the game," Barak said. Exactly. Only the "rules" of the game don't change. This is a further slippage on the Arab-Israeli exchanges, a percentage slide more awesome than Wall Street's crashing shares, though of not much interest in the US which – let us remember – made the F-18s and the Hellfire missiles which the Bush administration pleads with Israel to use sparingly. Quite a lot of the dead this weekend appear to have been Hamas members, but what is it supposed to solve? Is Hamas going to say: "Wow, this blitz is awesome – we'd better recognise the state of Israel, fall in line with the Palestinian Authority, lay down our weapons and pray we are taken prisoner and locked up indefinitely and support a new American 'peace process' in the Middle East!" Is that what the Israelis and the Americans and Gordon Brown think Hamas is going to do? Yes, let's remember Hamas's cynicism, the cynicism of all armed Islamist groups. Their need for Muslim martyrs is as crucial to them as Israel's need to create them. The lesson Israel thinks it is teaching – come to heel or we will crush you – is not the lesson Hamas is learning. Hamas needs violence to emphasise the oppression of the Palestinians – and relies on Israel to provide it. A few rockets into Israel and Israel obliges. Not a whimper from Tony Blair, the peace envoy to the Middle East who's never been to Gaza in his current incarnation. Not a bloody word. We hear the usual Israeli line. General Yaakov Amidror, the former head of the Israeli army's "research and assessment division" announced that "no country in the world would allow its citizens to be made the target of rocket attacks without taking vigorous steps to defend them". Quite so. But when the IRA were firing mortars over the border into Northern Ireland, when their guerrillas were crossing from the Republic to attack police stations and Protestants, did Britain unleash the RAF on the Irish Republic? Did the RAF bomb churches and tankers and police stations and zap 300 civilians to teach the Irish a lesson? No, it did not. Because the world would have seen it as criminal behaviour. We didn't want to lower ourselves to the IRA's level. Yes, Israel deserves security. But these bloodbaths will not bring it. Not since 1948 have air raids protected Israel. Israel has bombed Lebanon thousands of times since 1975 and not one has eliminated "terrorism". So what was the reaction last night? The Israelis threaten ground attacks. Hamas waits for another battle. Our Western politicians crouch in their funk holes. And somewhere to the east – in a cave? a basement? on a mountainside? – a well-known man in a turban smiles. http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-leaders-lie-civilians-die-and-lessons-of-history-are-ignored-1215045.html From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 06:35:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:05:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-25 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901011705k6983d36bs2b8039f81494ff7@mail.gmail.com> http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040711/main2.htm National ID-cards on anvil Tribune News Service New Delhi, July 10, 2004 The Centre is considering to issue multi-purpose national identity cards (MNICs) to all citizens. "Every person in the country will be provided national identity cards and given a unique national identity number," Home Minister Shivraj Patil said while inaugurating a seminar on Census data dissemination here. A pilot project covering 30 lakh population spread over 13 states and union territories is on. Its basic aim is to create a national population register which will have both the national register of Indian citizens and that for non-citizens. The country's population is expected to overtake that of the most populous country China in 2035. The MNIC project, the minister said, would not only enhance the security cover of the country but also facilitate the national level e-governance programme which is one of the important agenda items of the Common Minimum Programme to ensure that government services reach people in every nook and corner. The minister said the issue of giving voting rights to the citizens of Indian origin overseas would be examined by the government in all seriousness. The new government was also in the process of looking at the issue of dual passport to the NRIs. Meanwhile, expressing concern over population explosion, Vice-President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat today said Sanjay Gandhi's five-point programme, including population control, was a good one but failed due to its improper implementation. "Sanjay Gandhi's programme was good but due to the atrocities committed by the bureaucracy it could not be implemented," Mr Shekhawat said here. He was inaugurating a conference on bio-diesel, organised by an Allahabad-based NGO, Utthan, at the Indian Agricultural Research Institute. According to the latest estimates by the United Nations, India will overtake China in 2035 when it reaches a population of 146 crore, which is about 50 per cent more than the population at the turn of this century, he said. Mr Patil said in the past decade, there was an appreciable decline in the growth rates in Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh and West Bengal. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 06:40:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:10:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-26 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901011710y77014ec3s627c50536200211d@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1062469.cms THE LEADER ARTICLE: Identity Crisis: In Search of a Permanent Citizen Identification Scheme 26 Mar 2005, 0000 hrs IST, Prodyut Bora The government and its agencies started out trying to create a traceable and unique identification scheme for its citizens. However, in attempting to do so, it has created so many identification schemes that they have become the problem rather than the solution. The government's approach to the problem is rather like the blind men groping over an elephant. Just as each man declaimed he had identified the object merely by touching a portion of its body, we have the government issuing 'final' solutions to the identification question all the time. For long, most Indians have been using a ration card as their primary form of identification when dealing with the government. Although its objective was to provide a minimum amount of foodgrains and basic household necessities to people living below a certain income level, it soon emerged as the only proof of citizenship for those that could not afford amenities like personal vehicle, telephone, banking etc. Often, producing the ration card on demand could be the difference between life and death, as illustrated by the many cases of tsunami-hit people that were denied aid because they could not unearth their ration cards from the rubble left behind by the waves. Prior to the early 90s, very few people could afford personal vehicles or go abroad. Mercifully the situation is changing now, and more Indians are equipping themselves with a driving licence and passport: Two additional documents of identification. However, there was a time when the Election Commission (EC) had to decide on a standard documentary evidence that citizens would have to show before being permitted to vote. Instead of picking any of the existing identification forms, it chose a brand new one: the voter ID card. Ditto for the taxman: the Permanent Account Number (PAN) card. While all this was going on, the government declared, and rightly so, that the country ought to have a national register of citizens (NRC). As a sign of inclusion in the NRC every Indian would be given a multipurpose national identity card (MNIC). Considering the danger that continually increasing infiltration from across our borders poses, and the ease with which any foreign national can obtain identification documents like ration cards and driving licences, it was thought that an NRC and MNIC would provide a single-point reference for validating identity. It was also thought that over time it would replace the multiplicity of documentary evidence, with one single piece of paper that would be acceptable and honoured across the whole range of governmental institutions and statutory bodies. Finally, with all the talk of e-governance and G2C (government to citizen), it was assumed that a single MNIC Number could be used to access all governmental services online. And should the corporate and education sector want it, such identification tools could be used by them as well. While the momentum of the NRC and MNIC scheme has slowed down with the change in government, the vision of a nationally valid, multipurpose application, secure identification scheme remains. But it takes only a moment's notice to crack a dream. As if all the previous forms of identification were not good enough, as if an NRC and MNIC aren't comprehensive enough, the Securities and Exchange Board of India (SEBI) in late 2003 mooted the idea of a central database of market participants, subsequently called MAPIN (Market Participants and Investors Database), and a Unique Identification Number (UIN). And just recently it has released a notification that effective April 1, 2005, investors entering into a securities market transaction of a value of Rs 1 lakh or more need to quote their MAPIN-UIN. Although SEBI has subsequently modified its order and extended the deadline to December 31, 2005, the arguments still stand. Several commentators have already criticised the SEBI move for a variety of reasons, not the least for its demand that anyone desiring a MAPIN-UIN would have to provide their fingerprints "like a common criminal". My objective is not to question SEBI's authority to create MAPIN, but to ask the government one simple question: When will this madness end? First you have a Permanent Account Number (PAN), then you have a Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC), and now you have a Unique Identification Number (UIN). So how is PAN permanent, MNIC multipurpose and UIN unique? It's not that there are no success stories to draw from. Take the US Social Security Number (SSN) scheme. Whether it is opening a bank account or filling a tax form or buying a gun, quoting one's SSN or showing one's driving licence is good enough. More cases from around the world abound. The UK has already initiated legislation for a National Identity Register (NIR) and a National ID Card. The European Union has started work on EUCLID (European initiative for a Citizen digital ID solution). The Indonesian government has introduced what it calls SIN (Single Iden-tity Number), to replace various citizen identification numbers like driving licence number, taxpayer number, and other such numbers issued by government bodies. The question in front of the government is: How long are we going to create these little islands of automation before good sense dwells and one of the world's leading countries in the field of IT realises the benefit of a single identity and identification scheme? (The author is a member of BJP's media cell.) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 06:44:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:14:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-27 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901011714t505812o1945a29dac51163f@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/release/rel_print_page.asp?relid=9387 THE WAY TO EFFICIENT ADMINISTRATION Abhishek Dayal GOVERNANCE One Year of UPA Government Thursday, May 19, 2005** *Citizen-Centric Reforms* The IT revolution has begun to influence the governments' functioning. This tool can be used effectively to rid the system of some of its endemic problems. A number of successful initiatives have been taken by the Centre and State governments recently. The proposed Multi-purpose National Identity Cards to be issued by the Home Ministry, BHOOMI in Karnataka, eSEVA in Andhra Pradesh, and Rural Access to Services Through Internet (RASI) in Tamil Nadu - all these projects aim at cutting red-tapism, bringing the Government closer to the people, speeding up decision-making, reducing chances of corruption and taking the benefits of technology to the weakest sections of the society. But these initiatives cannot be effective if they work in isolation. The UPA Government feels that for effectively using the technology for transforming governance, a more focussed approach is necessary. The Standing Committee of the Inter-State Council has suggested several policy initiatives to modernise the government. These include overall vision, mission, strategy and approach e-governance as a reform process, e-readines in terms of government's willingness to share information with public and across government agencies and issuance of a multi-purpose national identity cards. India is on the verge of transformation from a developing country to a developed economy. Much needs to be done, and quickly. The initiative to identify the policy interventions necessary to reform the system is a welcome step in this direction. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 06:48:58 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:18:58 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-28 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901011718l595358a6x5cf46b2b4041f833@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Lucknow/UP_shows_way_for_multipurpose_ID_card/articleshow/msid-1429076,curpg-1.cms UP shows way for multipurpose ID card 26 Feb 2006, 0207 hrs IST, Arvind Singh Bisht, TNN LUCKNOW: Uttar Pradesh leads the nation by becoming the first state to be all set for issuing the multipurpose national identity card. A pilot project started in 2003 for this purpose is about to be completed in Nautanwa tehasil of Maharajganj district. The project was conceived at the behest of the Centre under its scheme to establish a national register of Indian citizens. The multipurpose identity cards are important from nation's security point of view as it would help police in identifying infiltrators, criminals, smugglers and terrorists from across the border as every valid resident of the country would be carrying the identity card. A pilot project is currently underway in UP along with 12 other states. Two tehasils were taken up for survey under the project in J&K, one specific area each in Uttranchal, West Bengal, Assam, Tirpura, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Goa, Pandicherry, Gujarat, Rajesthan and Delhi. In this regard, UP is ahead of all other states as a baseline survey which is crucial for the project is about to be completed in Nautanwa tehsil of Maharajganj. The tehsil has a mixed population of over 4 lakh, with a heavy strength of Nepalis. Nautanwa is also considered to be significant from the security point of view due to increased activities of Maoist and high incidence of smuggling through Nepal borders. The card will be issued to all citizens above 15 years and would contain specific data of the person related to socio-economic status, property details and place of reside. Each card will contain a unique national identity number, which would be computer compatible and the information contained in it will be available in network. There will be scope for updating information stored in the card. Once the trial project is found satisfactory, it would be initiated in other parts of the state. The card will also be a legal document for identification of person. Apart from this, the card is linked to the Centre's plan to make registration of births and deaths compulsory in the country. At present, only 56 per cent of births and 50 per cent of deaths are registered, despite the fact that the registration of births and deaths is compulsory under the Registration of Births and Deaths Act, 1969. Incidentally UP lags behind in this aspect along with Assam, Bihar and West Bengal. These states recorded less than 40 per cent of total births. Assam recorded only 11 per cent deaths and 28 per cent births. Surprisingly, J&K is among the better states in this respect along with Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra. The identity card will, thus, be useful in monitoring the growth of population, which has witnessed a significant fall in the sex ratio of since 1991. The 10th Five-Year Plan has set a target of reducing the infant mortality to 28 per 1,000 births by 2012. If this target is to be achieved, information about the infant mortality rate for every region and every socio-economic group will be required which would also be contained in the multipurpose card. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 06:53:25 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:23:25 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF Message-ID: <65be9bf40901011723x681a3d76td837246ee47bb64a@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2116525.cms Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF 7 Oct 2006, 2336 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN NEW DELHI: Border Security Force (BSF) chief A K Mitra has expressed serious concern over the recent attempts by Pakistan-based terrorists to enter India through Rajasthan and Punjab sectors — the 'fenced border' stretch which did not report a single infiltration bid in the last 10 years. Referring to incidents where BSF foiled attempts of terrorists to infiltrate into India last month, Mitra told TOI, "This is a matter of concern for us and we are taking it seriously". He said it was not clear if the infiltration bids were one-off incidents or was the beginning of a trend. "We have sensitised all border outposts and asked our personnel to remain on high alert. "The BSF, which is deployed on the entire western border along Jammu and Kashmir, Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat, had to encounter the first such infiltration bid in Amritsar sector on September 14 when it killed two persons, including a Lashkar-e-Taiba militant. The second incident was reported from Sherpura outpost in Sriganganagar district of Rajasthan on September 24 when the BSF killed three militants during a night-long gunfight. The use of these low-key western sectors as infiltration points assumes significance as it underscores the fact that the level of infiltration through J&K may not be a reliable index of Pakistan's willingness to clamp down on jehadis crossing into India. Intelligence agencies point out that the past years have seen ISI increasingly using Bangladesh to push in terrorists. The use of Rajasthan and Punjab sectors, however, is sure to add to the worries of the security establishment. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 06:51:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:21:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] IB blames 'slack' BSF for infiltration Message-ID: <65be9bf40901011721j64c74486m69e7b21634891559@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/IB_blames_slack_BSF_for_infiltration/rssarticleshow/3030645.cms IB blames 'slack' BSF for infiltration 12 May 2008, 0103 hrs IST, TNN NEW DELHI: Intelligence Bureau has blamed the renewed infiltration - which saw jehadis belonging to Lashkar-e-Taiba taking hostages on Sunday - on the dip in the alertness of Border Security Force during the five-year-long restraint observed by Pakistan. In a report to the Centre, the IB has clearly mentioned that the infiltrators, suspected to belong to LeT, sought to exploit the complacency that has crept into the BSF. The IB operatives, based on intercepts, also warned of more attempts by jehadis who have gathered at different points along the border to sneak in. The report attributes Sunday's hostage-taking to the desperation of the gang who found themselves trapped. Samba used to be on the live route for infiltrators till the BSF sealed the routes. From there, the jehadis would set off for "targets" in Doda, Bhaderwah and elsewhere. It is fairly common for security forces engaged in counter-terrorism operations to lower their guard during periods of lull. What is also common is that terrorists seek to exploit the vulnerability. The Lashkar gangs are seeking to do precisely that at places like Keran, Machal, Uri and Boniyar. Meanwhile, the stepped up infiltration bids are sure to raise questions about Pakistan's willingness to persist with the pattern when it stopped providing fire cover to terrorists trying to cross over into India. "The civilian authority may not have the same leverage with the armed forces. They are also more sensitive to the opinion on the street which continues to back the liberation of Kashmir. But it will be premature to derive drastic conclusions from a couple of incidents," said a senior security source. In any case, with J&K getting ready to welcome nearly three lakh pilgrims for the Amarnath yatra from next month, security agencies fear more Samba-like terrorist operations in the state, particularly in areas close to the route of the pilgrimage. Though the Samba attack appeared to be a direct fallout of the infiltration which took place on Thursday, officials, getting inputs from the state, believe that the militant operation on Sunday was just the beginning of a grand plan of terrorist outfits to make their presence felt before the forthcoming assembly elections and the yatra would provide them an opportunity to strike at easy targets. Referring to intercepts which the agencies had during the past month, sources in the CRPF - which is the main counter-insurgency force in the state - said that the outfits were desperate to strengthen their cadres through infiltration. Currently, all the outfits together have nearly 1,200 jehadis in the state and this is half of what they had in 2006. Melting of ice during summer would provide them a chance to infiltrate through the unfenced LoC, sources added. "Infiltration through the fenced international border in Samba sector shows the desperation of militant outfits which generally prefer LoC to sneak into the state," a senior BSF official said. He added that the terrorists were also desperate to alter the impression of "relative peace and declining infiltration" in the state by making some big strikes. As compared to 343 infiltrations in 2006, the state had witnessed 311 such movements in 2007, the official said. Fearing more disturbances in the coming months, the Centre has alerted the state and asked BSF to step up vigil along the border. The CRPF has also started deploying its personnel along the Amarnath yatra route. The yatra will beginning on June 18 and continue for nearly two months. "The army had to redraw the plan to rescue the hostages. We feigned an assault from the front of the house while a group of soldiers managed to break open the door at the rear helping the hostages to escape," Lt Col Goswami said. One of the terrorists was killed at this stage. Regardless, however, of the success of the operation against the terrorists, the attack called into question the BSF's claim that Thursday's infiltration attempt was totally foiled. While locals say that the police had set up road blocks on the highway and intensified patrolling, indicating some terrorists had managed to sneak in, a police source said around 12 terrorists had got in when Pakistan Rangers opened covering fire for them to enter into the Indian side. "The recovery of 10 kg RDX, some detonators and more than 100 rounds of the Pika sniper rifle on Friday confirmed these doubts," a source said. But BSF director general Ashish Mishra, who was in Srinagar on Friday, ruled out infiltration of any more armed terrorists. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 09:51:21 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 20:21:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901011723x681a3d76td837246ee47bb64a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <859394.19858.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> A BSF jawan who had served both on Indo-Bangladesh as well as Indo-Pak border was once asked what difference did he find while serving on these 2 borders. His reply was: "we earn 300 rupees to help cross one animal (goat/cow) from India to Pakistan, and the same 300 to cross one human from Bangladesh to India. That's the only difference" --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 6:53 AM > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2116525.cms > > Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > 7 Oct 2006, 2336 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN > > > > NEW DELHI: Border Security Force (BSF) chief A K Mitra has > expressed > serious concern over the recent attempts by Pakistan-based > terrorists to > enter India through Rajasthan and Punjab sectors — the > 'fenced border' > stretch which did not report a single infiltration bid in > the last 10 years. > > Referring to incidents where BSF foiled attempts of > terrorists to infiltrate > into India last month, Mitra told TOI, "This is a > matter of concern for us > and we are taking it seriously". > > He said it was not clear if the infiltration bids were > one-off incidents or > was the beginning of a trend. "We have sensitised all > border outposts and > asked our personnel to remain on high alert. > > "The BSF, which is deployed on the entire western > border along Jammu and > Kashmir, Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat, had to encounter > the first such > infiltration bid in Amritsar sector on September 14 when it > killed two > persons, including a Lashkar-e-Taiba militant. > > The second incident was reported from Sherpura outpost in > Sriganganagar > district of Rajasthan on September 24 when the BSF killed > three militants > during a night-long gunfight. > > The use of these low-key western sectors as infiltration > points assumes > significance as it underscores the fact that the level of > infiltration > through J&K may not be a reliable index of > Pakistan's willingness to clamp > down on jehadis crossing into India. > > > Intelligence agencies point out that the past years have > seen ISI > increasingly using Bangladesh to push in terrorists. The > use of Rajasthan > and Punjab sectors, however, is sure to add to the worries > of the > security establishment. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 2 12:02:18 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 06:32:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF In-Reply-To: <859394.19858.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40901011723x681a3d76td837246ee47bb64a@mail.gmail.com> <859394.19858.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901012232v7474242bg63b11d289a7563a3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Yusuf, Thank you for sharing the anecdote below. For the sake of clarification could I ask you to please cite the source of this anecdote. Was this something that you have heard or read from some where. I apologize for being painful and sounding like an utter idiot but I think it would be nice to have this bit categorized properly. Warm regards Taha On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Yousuf wrote: > A BSF jawan who had served both on Indo-Bangladesh as well as Indo-Pak > border was once asked what difference did he find while serving on these 2 > borders. His reply was: "we earn 300 rupees to help cross one animal > (goat/cow) from India to Pakistan, and the same 300 to cross one human from > Bangladesh to India. That's the only difference" > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 6:53 AM > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2116525.cms > > > > Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > > 7 Oct 2006, 2336 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN > > > > > > > > NEW DELHI: Border Security Force (BSF) chief A K Mitra has > > expressed > > serious concern over the recent attempts by Pakistan-based > > terrorists to > > enter India through Rajasthan and Punjab sectors — the > > 'fenced border' > > stretch which did not report a single infiltration bid in > > the last 10 years. > > > > Referring to incidents where BSF foiled attempts of > > terrorists to infiltrate > > into India last month, Mitra told TOI, "This is a > > matter of concern for us > > and we are taking it seriously". > > > > He said it was not clear if the infiltration bids were > > one-off incidents or > > was the beginning of a trend. "We have sensitised all > > border outposts and > > asked our personnel to remain on high alert. > > > > "The BSF, which is deployed on the entire western > > border along Jammu and > > Kashmir, Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat, had to encounter > > the first such > > infiltration bid in Amritsar sector on September 14 when it > > killed two > > persons, including a Lashkar-e-Taiba militant. > > > > The second incident was reported from Sherpura outpost in > > Sriganganagar > > district of Rajasthan on September 24 when the BSF killed > > three militants > > during a night-long gunfight. > > > > The use of these low-key western sectors as infiltration > > points assumes > > significance as it underscores the fact that the level of > > infiltration > > through J&K may not be a reliable index of > > Pakistan's willingness to clamp > > down on jehadis crossing into India. > > > > > > Intelligence agencies point out that the past years have > > seen ISI > > increasingly using Bangladesh to push in terrorists. The > > use of Rajasthan > > and Punjab sectors, however, is sure to add to the worries > > of the > > security establishment. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 12:38:49 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:08:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901012232v7474242bg63b11d289a7563a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <193617.10084.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Taha No, I didn't read it anywhere. I was told this anecdote by an ex-IPS officer (obviously name-less) who said this is quite a popular story. In fact illegal movement of cattle for commercial purpose is very common across Indo-Pak border (and could it be done without the help of border forces?). You may see some reports below: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/bsf-bdr-discuss-steps-to-tackle-cattle-smuggling-infiltration-lead_10088545.html http://www.vina.cc/stories/GENERAL/2005/7/india.pak.animaldeal.html http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33111220080418 http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-54238.html http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1232370.cms Yousuf --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 12:02 PM > Dear Yusuf, > > Thank you for sharing the anecdote below. For the sake of > clarification > could I ask you to please cite the source of this anecdote. > Was this > something that you have heard or read from some where. I > apologize for being > painful and sounding like an utter idiot but I think it > would be nice to > have this bit categorized properly. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Yousuf > wrote: > > > A BSF jawan who had served both on Indo-Bangladesh as > well as Indo-Pak > > border was once asked what difference did he find > while serving on these 2 > > borders. His reply was: "we earn 300 rupees to > help cross one animal > > (goat/cow) from India to Pakistan, and the same 300 to > cross one human from > > Bangladesh to India. That's the only > difference" > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > > > > From: Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Infiltration through > Punjab worries BSF > > > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > > > > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 6:53 AM > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2116525.cms > > > > > > Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > > > 7 Oct 2006, 2336 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN > > > > > > > > > > > > NEW DELHI: Border Security Force (BSF) chief A K > Mitra has > > > expressed > > > serious concern over the recent attempts by > Pakistan-based > > > terrorists to > > > enter India through Rajasthan and Punjab sectors > — the > > > 'fenced border' > > > stretch which did not report a single > infiltration bid in > > > the last 10 years. > > > > > > Referring to incidents where BSF foiled attempts > of > > > terrorists to infiltrate > > > into India last month, Mitra told TOI, "This > is a > > > matter of concern for us > > > and we are taking it seriously". > > > > > > He said it was not clear if the infiltration bids > were > > > one-off incidents or > > > was the beginning of a trend. "We have > sensitised all > > > border outposts and > > > asked our personnel to remain on high alert. > > > > > > "The BSF, which is deployed on the entire > western > > > border along Jammu and > > > Kashmir, Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat, had to > encounter > > > the first such > > > infiltration bid in Amritsar sector on September > 14 when it > > > killed two > > > persons, including a Lashkar-e-Taiba militant. > > > > > > The second incident was reported from Sherpura > outpost in > > > Sriganganagar > > > district of Rajasthan on September 24 when the > BSF killed > > > three militants > > > during a night-long gunfight. > > > > > > The use of these low-key western sectors as > infiltration > > > points assumes > > > significance as it underscores the fact that the > level of > > > infiltration > > > through J&K may not be a reliable index of > > > Pakistan's willingness to clamp > > > down on jehadis crossing into India. > > > > > > > > > Intelligence agencies point out that the past > years have > > > seen ISI > > > increasingly using Bangladesh to push in > terrorists. The > > > use of Rajasthan > > > and Punjab sectors, however, is sure to add to > the worries > > > of the > > > security establishment. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > From navayana at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 18:00:27 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:00:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Navayana-Sarai Lecture # 3: Anupama Rao, 12 January 09 Message-ID: NAVAYANA invites you to Navayana-Sarai lecture # 3 Anupama Rao will speak on Theorizing Caste Violence in Postcolonial India Thoughts from Maharashtra 3:30 pm, 12 January 2009 Seminar Room, CSDS This talk takes up the relationship between symbolic politics and political violence as they have influenced changing repertoires of caste violence and Dalit politics in Maharashtra, from the namantar struggle of the 1970s, to the present. Anupama Rao is trained as an anthropologist and historian, and teaches at Barnard College, Columbia University. She is the author of The Caste Question: Dalits and Politics in Modern India (University of California Press, forthcoming); contributing editor of Discipline and the Other Body: Correction, Corporeality and Colonialism (Duke University Press, 2006), as well as Gender and Caste (Kali for Women, 2003), and the author of numerous publications, including "Death of a Kotwal: Injury and the Politics of Recognition," Subaltern Studies XII. www.navayana.org -- Navayana Publishing E92, II Floor Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 -- Navayana Publishing M-110 (First Floor) Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 Registered address: Navayana Publishing 54, I Floor Savarirayalu Stree Pondicherry 605001 Ph: 91-413-2223337 Mobile: 91-94430-33305 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From kiccovich at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 01:41:18 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:11:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] From the ashes of Gaza, Tariq Ali In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901011015q27bbda2ck4d51c2c0f22868ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65877.46890.qm@web31706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From the ashes of Gaza In the face of Israel's latest onslaught, the only option for Palestinian nationalism is to embrace a one-state solution guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 30 December 2008 08.00 GMT The assault on Gaza, planned over six months and executed with perfect timing, was designed largely, as Neve Gordon has rightly observed, to help the incumbent parties triumph in the forthcoming Israeli elections. The dead Palestinians are little more than election fodder in a cynical contest between the right and the far right in Israel. Washington and its EU allies, perfectly aware that Gaza was about to be assaulted, as in the case of Lebanon in 2006, sit back and watch. Washington, as is its wont, blames the pro-Hamas Palestinians, with Obama and Bush singing from the same AIPAC hymn sheet. The EU politicians, having observed the build-up, the siege, the collective punishment inflicted on Gaza, the targeting of civilians etc (for all the gory detail, see Harvard scholar Sara Roy's chilling essay in the London Review of Books) were convinced that it was the rocket attacks that had "provoked" Israel but called on both sides to end the violence, with nil effect. The moth-eaten Mubarak dictatorship in Egypt and Nato's favourite Islamists in Ankara failed to register even a symbolic protest by recalling their ambassadors from Israel. China and Russia did not convene a meeting of the UN security council to discuss the crisis. As result of official apathy, one outcome of this latest attack will be to inflame Muslim communities throughout the world and swell the ranks of those very organisations that the west claims it is combating in the "war against terror". The bloodshed in Gaza raises broader strategic questions for both sides, issues related to recent history. One fact that needs to be recognised is that there is no Palestinian Authority. There never was one. The Oslo Accords were an unmitigated disaster for the Palestinians, creating a set of disconnected and shrivelled Palestinian ghettoes under the permanent watch of a brutal enforcer. The PLO, once the repository of Palestinian hope, became little more than a supplicant for EU money. Western enthusiasm for democracy stops when those opposed to its policies are elected to office. The west and Israel tried everything to secure a Fatah victory: Palestinian voters rebuffed the concerted threats and bribes of the "international community" in a campaign that saw Hamas members and other oppositionists routinely detained or assaulted by the IDF, their posters confiscated or destroyed, US and EU funds channelled into the Fatah campaign, and US congressmen announcing that Hamas should not be allowed to run. Even the timing of the election was set by the determination to rig the outcome. Scheduled for the summer of 2005, it was delayed till January 2006 to give Abbas time to distribute assets in Gaza – in the words of an Egyptian intelligence officer, "the public will then support the Authority against Hamas." Popular desire for a clean broom after ten years of corruption, bullying and bluster under Fatah proved stronger than all of this. Hamas's electoral triumph was treated as an ominous sign of rising fundamentalism, and a fearsome blow to the prospects of peace with Israel, by rulers and journalists across the Atlantic world. Immediate financial and diplomatic pressures were applied to force Hamas to adopt the same policies as those of the party it had defeated at the polls. Uncompromised by the Palestinian Authority's combination of greed and dependency, the self-enrichment of its servile spokesmen and policemen, and their acquiescence in a "peace process" that has brought only further expropriation and misery to the population under them, Hamas offered the alternative of a simple example. Without any of the resources of its rival, it set up clinics, schools, hospitals, vocational training and welfare programmes for the poor. Its leaders and cadres lived frugally, within reach of ordinary people. It is this response to everyday needs that has won Hamas the broad base of its support, not daily recitation of verses from the Koran. How far its conduct in the second Intifada has given it an additional degree of credibility is less clear. Its armed attacks on Israel, like those of Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade or Islamic Jihad, have been retaliations against an occupation far more deadly than any actions it has ever undertaken. Measured on the scale of IDF killings, Palestinian strikes have been few and far between. The asymmetry was starkly exposed during Hamas's unilateral ceasefire, begun in June 2003, and maintained throughout the summer, despite the Israeli campaign of raids and mass arrests that followed, in which some 300 Hamas cadres were seized from the West Bank. On August 19 2003, a self-proclaimed "Hamas" cell from Hebron, disowned and denounced by the official leadership, blew up a bus in west Jerusalem, upon which Israel promptly assassinated the Hamas ceasefire's negotiator, Ismail Abu Shanab. Hamas, in turn, responded. In return, the Palestinian Authority and Arab states cut funding to its charities and, in September 2003, the EU declared the whole Hamas movement to be a terrorist organization – a longstanding demand of Tel Aviv. What has actually distinguished Hamas in a hopelessly unequal combat is not dispatch of suicide bombers, to which a range of competing groups resorted, but its superior discipline – demonstrated by its ability to enforce a self-declared ceasefire against Israel over the past year. All civilian deaths are to be condemned, but since Israel is their principal practitioner, Euro-American cant serves only to expose those who utter it. Overwhelmingly, the boot of murder is on the other foot, ruthlessly stamped into Palestine by a modern army equipped with jets, tanks and missiles in the longest-armed oppression of modern history. "Nobody can reject or condemn the revolt of a people that has been suffering under military occupation for 45 years against occupation force," said General Shlomo Gazit, former chief of Israeli military intelligence, in 1993. The real grievance of the EU and US against Hamas is that it refused to accept the capitulation of the Oslo Accords, and has rejected every subsequent effort, from Taba to Geneva, to pass off their calamities on the Palestinians. The west's priority ever since was to break this resistance. Cutting off funding to the Palestinian Authority is an obvious weapon with which to bludgeon Hamas into submission. Boosting the presidential powers of Abbas – as publicly picked for his post by Washington, as was Karzai in Kabul – at the expense of the legislative council is another. No serious efforts were made to negotiate with the elected Palestinian leadership. I doubt if Hamas could have been rapidly suborned to western and Israeli interests, but it would not have been unprecedented. Hamas' programmatic heritage remains mortgaged to the most fatal weakness of Palestinian nationalism: the belief that the political choices before it are either rejection of the existence of Israel altogether or acceptance of the dismembered remnants of a fifth of the country. From the fantasy maximalism of the first to the pathetic minimalism of the second, the path is all too short, as the history of Fatah has shown. The test for Hamas is not whether it can be house-trained to the satisfaction of western opinion, but whether it can break with this crippling tradition. Soon after the Hamas election victory in Gaza, I was asked in public by a Palestinian what I would do in their place. "Dissolve the Palestinian Authority" was my response and end the make-believe. To do so would situate the Palestinian national cause on its proper basis, with the demand that the country and its resources be divided equitably, in proportion to two populations that are equal in size – not 80% to one and 20% to the other, a dispossession of such iniquity that no self-respecting people will ever submit to it in the long run. The only acceptable alternative is a single state for Jews and Palestinians alike, in which the exactions of Zionism are repaired. There is no other way. And Israeli citizens might ponder the following words from Shakespeare (in The Merchant of Venice), which I have slightly altered: "I am a Palestinian. Hath not a Palestinian eyes? Hath not a Palestinian hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Jew is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that … the villainy you teach me, I will execute; and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction." From pkray11 at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 01:45:44 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 01:45:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi on Jews & Middle-East Message-ID: <98f331e00901021215y69b14a68n1a849df7b966d2db@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I am posting this article written by Mahatma Gandhi. Prakash Gandhi on Jews & Middle-East (Article Written on November 20, 1938/Published in Harijan on November 26, 1938) Several letters have been received by me asking me to declare my views about the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and the persecution of the Jews in Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on this very difficult question. My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close. Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews. But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood? Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home. The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews. But the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in history. The tyrants of old never went so mad as Hitler seems to have gone. And he is doing it with religious zeal. For he is propounding a new religion of exclusive and militant nationalism in the name of which many inhumanity becomes an act of humanity to be rewarded here and hereafter. The crime of an obviously mad but intrepid youth is being visited upon his whole race with unbelievable ferocity. If there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany, to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified. But I do not believe in any war. A discussion of the pros and cons of such a war is therefore outside my horizon or province. But if there can be no war against Germany, even for such a crime as is being committed against the Jews, surely there can be no alliance with Germany. How can there be alliance between a nation which claims to stand for justice and democracy and one which is the declared enemy of both? Or is England drifting towards armed dictatorship and all it means? Germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be worked when it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism. It is also showing how hideous, terrible and terrifying it looks in its nakedness. Can the Jews resist this organized and shameless persecution? Is there a way to preserve their self-respect, and not to feel helpless, neglected and forlorn? I submit there is. No person who has faith in a living God need feel helpless or forlorn. Jehovah of the Jews is a God more personal than the God of the Christians, the Musalmans or the Hindus, though, as a matter of fact in essence, He is common to all the one without a second and beyond description. But as the Jews attribute personality to God and believe that He rules every action of theirs, they ought not to feel helpless. If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German may, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment . And for doing this, I should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance but would have confidence that in the end the rest are bound to follow my example. If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy which no number of resolutions of sympathy passed in the world outside Germany can. Indeed, even if Britain, France and America were to declare hostilities against Germany, they can bring no inner joy, no inner strength. The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant. For to the god fearing, death has no terror. It is a joyful sleep to be followed by a waking that would be all the more refreshing for the long sleep. It is hardly necessary for me to point out that it is easier for the Jews than for the Czechs to follow my prescription. And they have in the Indian satyagraha campaign in South Africa an exact parallel. There the Indians occupied precisely the same place that the Jews occupy in Germany. The persecution had also a religious tinge. President Kruger used to say that the white Christians were the chosen of God and Indians were inferior beings created to serve the whites. A fundamental clause in the Transvaal constitution was that there should be no equality between the whites and colored races including Asia tics. There too the Indians were consigned to ghettos described as locations. The other disabilities were almost of the same type as those of the Jews in Germany. The Indians, a mere handful, resorted to satyagraha without any backing from the world outside or the Indian Government. Indeed the British officials tried to dissuade the satyagrahis (soldiers of non-violence) from their contemplated step. World opinion and the Indian Government came to their aid after eight years of fighting. And that too was by way of diplomatic pressure not of a threat of war. But the Jews of Germany can offer satyagraha under infinitely better auspices than Indians of South Africa. The Jews are a compact, homogeneous community in Germany. they are far more gifted than the Indians of South Africa. And they have organized world opinion behind them. I am convinced that if someone with courage and vision can arise among them to lead them in nonviolent action, the winter of their despair can in the twinkling of an eye be turned into the summer of hope. And what has today become a degrading man-hunt can be turned in to a calm and determined stand offered by unarmed men and women possessing the strength of suffering given to them by Jehovah. It will be then a truly religious resistance offered against the godless fury of dehumanized man. The German Jews will score a lasting victory over the German gentiles in the sense that they will have converted that latter to an appreciation of human dignity. They will have rendered service to fellow-Germans and proved their title to be the real Germans as against those who are today dragging, however unknowingly, the German name into the mire. And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going about it the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart. The same God rules the Arab heart, who rules the Jewish heart. They can offer satyagraha in front of the Arabs and offer themselves to be shot or thrown in to the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. They will find the world opinion in the their favor in their religious aspiration. There are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only discard the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds. Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine, not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the word's Literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jews can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 3 03:55:39 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:25:39 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Survey of the spectrum of arguments regarding MNIC as they exist in the public domain followed by questions.(1998-2004) Message-ID: <65be9bf40901021425x38279608kdea375207b3aeba8@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Dear Yosuf, Many thanks for providing the context for your anecdote and forwarding the links to various news stories on the issue of infiltration and security on the Indian Border. I think these stories are important for all us because they indicate a far more systemic failure on part of our organizations to do their job properly. I wonder why is political class of our country hell bent for the last seven years to create a particular perception of fear and insecurity and dole National Identity Card as the sole solution? Having said that I certainly don't want to go in for a -blame-the-politician- argument for our social ills, because certainly terrorist attacks happen, people get killed, and ordinary citizens live precarious lives, but insofar as the issue of Multiple Purpose National Identity is concerned, the consensus building exercise for the issuance of the card seems to tread multiple lines of argument which in my rather limited opinion are as follows- 1. The Starting point- Kargil War occurs-for which intrusion is blamed-fencing of border areas is peddled as a solution(spatial insulation argument)-plus distribution of identity cards is forwarded as a second option (social containment argument). This argument is largely forgotten insofar as popular news media and political commentators are concrened. I wonder why there is not even a mention of it now? Premise seems to be that MINC will alleviate intrusion of all illegal foreigners. 2. 'Terror' Strikes- Islamic 'terrorists' blamed-since one cannot differentiate between a Pakistani Muslim from a Bangladeshi Muslim from an Indian Muslim from an Indian Hindu, identification of all people is peddled as a solution- (Separating wheat from the chaff argument) Premise seems to be that 'Good' Muslims would be separated from 'Bad' Muslims. 3. Public Distribution System- Redistribution of moneis to the poor-the corruption within the system is blamed- inefficiency of numbers and the uncertainty of the identity of the beneficiary is blamed- distribution of identity card is again peddled as a solution. (just distribution argument) Premise seems to be that corruption in the system will be routed out. Distribution will be just. 4.Population- Conducting Decennial census is a thing of the past- old mind set is blamed- inefficient data collection is blamed- the national identity card centers will collect data on a real time basis is peddled as a solution. (Modernity argument, catching up with the West argument) Premise seems to be that with real time data correct policies will be formed with respect social and spatial aspects of the country and that there will be no illegal immigrants. 5. Voter- The photo voter identity card is a failure- ease of forging of documents is blamed- inefficiency of government agencies is processing voter information is blamed- National identity card and its 'multiple purposes' is peddled as a solution. (Multiple Purpose Argument) Premise seems to be that aspirations of genuine citizens could be ascertained. Card will reduce the burden of carrying many documents. Data processing will be streamlined. In addition to MNIC the GOI is also considering the issuance of a Unified National Identity Card or UID and plans are also underway for the creation of a DNA database for the country. In both these cases the premise seems to be that the -GOOD- of the country could be achieved, as a UID card will benefit everybody and a DNA database will help in medical advancement. Questions- The above framework exists in mass consciousness. What we need to do now is, I believe, ask questions and seek answers to gain a grip on this unfolding story. I have divided my questions in this regard into two categories, general and specific. First let us look at general questions- 1. If MINC is an identity document then what does the Government of India mean by it? More specifically what it mean to identify a particular person as that particular person? 2. Is the production of a national identity card -an-absolute-and-necessary- condition for all of us in India, if so WHY? What is the evidence that supports this claim? 3. Is there NO OTHER way with which the money that the GOI has could be distributed more justly? 4.On the basis of what evidence has the GOI come to this conclusion that with MINC or the process of identification of people for granting them MINC cards, will correctly identify all Indians as Indians? When all other forms of identification have failed in the last one hundred and twenty years. 5. Is there any precedent wherein the distribution of identity cards have benefited all recipients? 6. Who will be the real beneficiary, will it be the corporates (Companies who have invested millions in the production and manufacture of cards and who are in the data management game), the GOI who will have access private and personal information of millions of Indians which till now was strictly the property of owner or the recipients? Specific questions with respect to arguments which have come in the public domain as listed above. To begin with, in this post I will put forth just one question per corresponding argument mentioned earlier. I will of course present more questions in the event this post generates some discussion. I earnestly hope it does. :) 1. Regarding Spatial insulation and social containment argument- Given that Indian borders are still not insulated especially along Nepal and Bangladesh border, how will the issuance of a National identity card deter intrusions? 2. Regarding Separating the Wheat from the Chaff argument- How will a National Identity Card solve the problem of 'Bad' Mulsims which is far more complex and whose roots lie in socio-economic, socio-political, religio-theological, ethno-national notions and popular interpretations of these notions? In other words how will a National Identity card prevent a mad enraged Muslim oscillating between brink of insanity and completely misguided religious fervor to annihilate himself and others in the process? or from the perspective of the State, how will a National Identity Card help the authorities in identifying the existence of such a rogue element amongst the One Hundred and Fourteen Million Muslims who live in India alone? 3. Just Distribution argument- What is the evidence that the information or the data so collected will not be subjected to various ethno-national pressures? In other words What is the evidence that distribution entailing from such an exercise will be corruption free? or Is there any precedent where the issuance of cards has resulted in just distribution? 4. Modernity Argument, Catching up with the West argument- Given that there is no precedent of such a technology bearing fruit for all in the West, why do we need to copy it in India? What will we benefit as a Nation from such a massive disbursement of public money? What is the opportunity cost? What is the evidence for the cost benefit analysis that the GOI seems to have done for the introduction of such a card? 5. Multipurpose Argument- Given that when we already have a range of identity cards addressing individual purposes, why is the government not interested in making sure that the truth claims and validity of earlier forms of identification is made more sound? Is the investment in improving earlier forms of identification more than, what many believe to be 27000 crore rupees (The cost of bringing in MNIC for a national roll out)? The assertion, that the total cost of National roll out for MNIC is 27000 Crore, could be regarded as hear say, it stems from a discussion at the Smart Card Exposition held in Pragati Maidan in 2006, between S Swarn, the editor of Electronics Today Magazine and a representative of NXP of Philips. I was part of audience. I ofcourse do not have any evidence to support this claim. Hence we need to ask even more fundamental question regarding the cost of the card. I would like to believe that the cost of card will be more? That would include cost of building the MNIC centers, creating the required architecture to maintain it and putting a mechanism in place to run it. What is the TOTAL COST of introducing and maintaining MNIC? Because we the citizens of India have no access to this information? What are the estimates? How are those estimates arrived at? Is the procedure just of arriving those estimates correct? Warm regards Taha Dear Taha No, I didn't read it anywhere. I was told this anecdote by an ex-IPS officer (obviously name-less) who said this is quite a popular story. In fact illegal movement of cattle for commercial purpose is very common across Indo-Pak border (and could it be done without the help of border forces?). You may see some reports below: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/bsf-bdr-discuss-steps-to-tackle-cattle-smuggling-infiltration-lead_10088545.html http://www.vina.cc/stories/GENERAL/2005/7/india.pak.animaldeal.html http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33111220080418 http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-54238.html http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1232370.cms Yousuf From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 12:02 PM > Dear Yusuf, > > Thank you for sharing the anecdote below. For the sake of > clarification > could I ask you to please cite the source of this anecdote. > Was this > something that you have heard or read from some where. I > apologize for being > painful and sounding like an utter idiot but I think it > would be nice to > have this bit categorized properly. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Yousuf > wrote: > > > A BSF jawan who had served both on Indo-Bangladesh as > well as Indo-Pak > > border was once asked what difference did he find > while serving on these 2 > > borders. His reply was: "we earn 300 rupees to > help cross one animal > > (goat/cow) from India to Pakistan, and the same 300 to > cross one human from > > Bangladesh to India. That's the only > difference" > > > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 3 04:18:06 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:48:06 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Survey of the spectrum of arguments regarding MNIC as they exist in the public domain followed by questions.(1998-2004) In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901021425x38279608kdea375207b3aeba8@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901021425x38279608kdea375207b3aeba8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901021448m2c826a94j3718b2d9aa9c0d5a@mail.gmail.com> Correction regarding the last question: Is the procedure for arriving at those estimates correct? On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear All, Dear Yosuf, > > Many thanks for providing the context for your anecdote and forwarding the > links to various news stories on the issue of infiltration and security on > the Indian Border. I think these stories are important for all us because > they indicate a far more systemic failure on part of our organizations to do > their job properly. > > I wonder why is political class of our country hell bent for the last seven > years to create a particular perception of fear and insecurity and dole > National Identity Card as the sole solution? > > Having said that I certainly don't want to go in for a > -blame-the-politician- argument for our social ills, because certainly > terrorist attacks happen, people get killed, and ordinary citizens live > precarious lives, but insofar as the issue of Multiple Purpose National > Identity is concerned, the consensus building exercise for the issuance of > the card seems to tread multiple lines of argument which in my rather > limited opinion are as follows- > > 1. The Starting point- Kargil War occurs-for which intrusion is > blamed-fencing of border areas is peddled as a solution(spatial insulation > argument)-plus distribution of identity cards is forwarded as a second > option (social containment argument). > > This argument is largely forgotten insofar as popular news media and > political commentators are concrened. I wonder why there is not even a > mention of it now? > > Premise seems to be that MINC will alleviate intrusion of all illegal > foreigners. > > 2. 'Terror' Strikes- Islamic 'terrorists' blamed-since one cannot > differentiate between a Pakistani Muslim from a Bangladeshi Muslim from an > Indian Muslim from an Indian Hindu, identification of all people is peddled > as a solution- (Separating wheat from the chaff argument) > > Premise seems to be that 'Good' Muslims would be separated from 'Bad' > Muslims. > > 3. Public Distribution System- Redistribution of moneis to the poor-the > corruption within the system is blamed- inefficiency of numbers and the > uncertainty of the identity of the beneficiary is blamed- distribution of > identity card is again peddled as a solution. (just distribution argument) > > Premise seems to be that corruption in the system will be routed out. > Distribution will be just. > > 4.Population- Conducting Decennial census is a thing of the past- old mind > set is blamed- inefficient data collection is blamed- the national identity > card centers will collect data on a real time basis is peddled as a > solution. (Modernity argument, catching up with the West argument) > > Premise seems to be that with real time data correct policies will be > formed with respect social and spatial aspects of the country and that there > will be no illegal immigrants. > > 5. Voter- The photo voter identity card is a failure- ease of forging of > documents is blamed- inefficiency of government agencies is processing > voter information is blamed- National identity card and its 'multiple > purposes' is peddled as a solution. (Multiple Purpose Argument) > > Premise seems to be that aspirations of genuine citizens could be > ascertained. Card will reduce the burden of carrying many documents. Data > processing will be streamlined. > > In addition to MNIC the GOI is also considering the issuance of a Unified > National Identity Card or UID and plans are also underway for the creation > of a DNA database for the country. In both these cases the premise seems to > be that the -GOOD- of the country could be achieved, as a UID card will > benefit everybody and a DNA database will help in medical advancement. > > Questions- > > The above framework exists in mass consciousness. What we need to do now > is, I believe, ask questions and seek answers to gain a grip on this > unfolding story. > > I have divided my questions in this regard into two categories, general and > specific. First let us look at general questions- > > 1. If MINC is an identity document then what does the Government of India > mean by it? > > More specifically what it mean to identify a particular person as that > particular person? > > 2. Is the production of a national identity card > -an-absolute-and-necessary- condition for all of us in India, if so WHY? > What is the evidence that supports this claim? > > 3. Is there NO OTHER way with which the money that the GOI has could be > distributed more justly? > > 4.On the basis of what evidence has the GOI come to this conclusion that > with MINC or the process of identification of people for granting them MINC > cards, will correctly identify all Indians as Indians? When all other forms > of identification have failed in the last one hundred and twenty years. > > 5. Is there any precedent wherein the distribution of identity cards have > benefited all recipients? > > 6. Who will be the real beneficiary, will it be the corporates (Companies > who have invested millions in the production and manufacture of cards and > who are in the data management game), the GOI who will have access private > and personal information of millions of Indians which till now was strictly > the property of owner or the recipients? > > Specific questions with respect to arguments which have come in the public > domain as listed above. > > To begin with, in this post I will put forth just one question per > corresponding argument mentioned earlier. I will of course present more > questions in the event this post generates some discussion. I earnestly hope > it does. :) > > 1. Regarding Spatial insulation and social containment argument- > > Given that Indian borders are still not insulated especially along Nepal > and Bangladesh border, how will the issuance of a National identity card > deter intrusions? > > 2. Regarding Separating the Wheat from the Chaff argument- > > How will a National Identity Card solve the problem of 'Bad' Mulsims which > is far more complex and whose roots lie in socio-economic, socio-political, > religio-theological, ethno-national notions and popular interpretations of > these notions? > > In other words how will a National Identity card prevent a mad enraged > Muslim oscillating between brink of insanity and completely misguided > religious fervor to annihilate himself and others in the process? > > or from the perspective of the State, how will a National Identity Card > help the authorities in identifying the existence of such a rogue element > amongst the One Hundred and Fourteen Million Muslims who live in India > alone? > > 3. Just Distribution argument- > > What is the evidence that the information or the data so collected will not > be subjected to various ethno-national pressures? In other words What is > the evidence that distribution entailing from such an exercise will be > corruption free? > > or Is there any precedent where the issuance of cards has resulted in just > distribution? > > 4. Modernity Argument, Catching up with the West argument- > > Given that there is no precedent of such a technology bearing fruit for all > in the West, why do we need to copy it in India? > > What will we benefit as a Nation from such a massive disbursement of public > money? What is the opportunity cost? What is the evidence for the cost > benefit analysis that the GOI seems to have done for the introduction of > such a card? > > 5. Multipurpose Argument- > > Given that when we already have a range of identity cards addressing > individual purposes, why is the government not interested in making sure > that the truth claims and validity of earlier forms of identification is > made more sound? > > Is the investment in improving earlier forms of identification more than, > what many believe to be 27000 crore rupees (The cost of bringing in MNIC for > a national roll out)? The assertion, that the total cost of National roll > out for MNIC is 27000 Crore, could be regarded as hear say, it stems from a > discussion at the Smart Card Exposition held in Pragati Maidan in 2006, > between S Swarn, the editor of Electronics Today Magazine and a > representative of NXP of Philips. I was part of audience. I ofcourse do not > have any evidence to support this claim. Hence we need to ask even more > fundamental question regarding the cost of the card. I would like to believe > that the cost of card will be more? That would include cost of building the > MNIC centers, creating the required architecture to maintain it and putting > a mechanism in place to run it. > > What is the TOTAL COST of introducing and maintaining MNIC? Because we the > citizens of India have no access to this information? > > What are the estimates? > > How are those estimates arrived at? > > Is the procedure just of arriving those estimates correct? > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > Dear Taha > No, I didn't read it anywhere. I was told this anecdote by an ex-IPS officer (obviously name-less) who said this is quite a popular story. In fact illegal movement of cattle for commercial purpose is very common across Indo-Pak border (and could it be done without the help of border forces?). You may see some reports below: > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/bsf-bdr-discuss-steps-to-tackle-cattle-smuggling-infiltration-lead_10088545.html > > http://www.vina.cc/stories/GENERAL/2005/7/india.pak.animaldeal.html > > http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-33111220080418 > > http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-54238.html > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1232370.cms > > Yousuf > > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Infiltration through Punjab worries BSF > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" > > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 12:02 PM > > > Dear Yusuf, > > > > Thank you for sharing the anecdote below. For the sake of > > clarification > > could I ask you to please cite the source of this anecdote. > > Was this > > something that you have heard or read from some where. I > > apologize for being > > painful and sounding like an utter idiot but I think it > > would be nice to > > have this bit categorized properly. > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > > A BSF jawan who had served both on Indo-Bangladesh as > > > well as Indo-Pak > > > > border was once asked what difference did he find > > > while serving on these 2 > > > > borders. His reply was: "we earn 300 rupees to > > > help cross one animal > > > > (goat/cow) from India to Pakistan, and the same 300 to > > > cross one human from > > > > Bangladesh to India. That's the only > > > difference" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 23:34:49 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <718632.84769.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Shuddha, What do you think the Indian state should do,in response to the recent terror attacks? Thanks Rahul --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza > To: "Reader-list list" > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 6:02 PM > Dear All, > > We are all aware of the terrible toll of unarmed civilian > casualties > caused by the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) air strike on > Gaza a few > days ago. It demonstrates yet again the willingness of > those who > currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of > a lasting > and durable peace with the Palestinian people. There is no > other way > to describe these air strikes other than as acts of gross > state > terrorism. > > Of course, Hamas, (which controls the West Bank, and whose > origins > lie in the cultivation by Israel of an 'Islamist > Opposition' within > the Palestinian ranks in the eighties and earlier ) with > its own > obduracy has contributed to the 'blowback' that > holds the peace > process in Israel-Palestine hostage to a never ending cycle > of > competitive retribution. > > Militant Zionists, Fundamentalist Islamists and inflexible > > Palestinian Nationalists have a joint vested interest in > the > perpetuation of conflict in a manner that should come as no > surprise > to those familiar with the faultlines and destinies of > identity- > based conflicts in South Asia. > > There are of course, a few stray voices in the Indian > 'blogsphere' > who are already calling for 'India to Emulate > Israel'. Some of them, > such as this one, > > http://blogs.expressindia.com/showblogdetails-comments.php? > > pg=2&contentid=393780 > > come from Dr. S. Subramaniam, IPS (Retd.) > > He says - > > "..A country which did not have a geographical > existence before 1948 > is continuing to show the way on how to respond to > terrorism...They > strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring > standard > international conventions and borders...India has to > reassess its > policy options and think of non traditional measures for > tackling > this menace.In this, we have a lot to learn from both > Israel and USA." > > Dr. Subramaniam has had the distinction of being the > former DG of > NSG (National Security Guards) CRPF (Central Reserve Police > Force) > and Founder of SPG (Special Protection Group). So he is not > exactly > an audolescent Hindutva shadow warrior on testosterone who > admires a > bit of Israeli state muscle flexing (and there are lots of > those). He > is a former senior ranking officer who has held posts of > great > responsibility in the security establishment in India. I > sincerely > hope that his views represent the opinions of an isolated > fringe that > has no current influence in the corridors of power. > > However, especially at times like this, it becomes > important to > complicate the picture. Just as few Indians and > Pakistanis (or so I > hope) other than some hyperventilating television anchors > and > isolated armchair warriors within and without the military- > > intelligence complexes in India and Pakistan have been > recently > rooting for war, so too, there is a substantial component > within the > spectrum of Israeli public opinion and civil society that > is outraged > (and justly so) by the IDF's disproportionate and > lethal show of > force in Gaza. > > And just as many of those in India and Pakistan who are > committed to > combatting war hysteria and the hardening of postures have > been > condemned as 'traitors' by their jingoist peers. So > too, many in > Israel today are willing to stand up and be called > 'traitors' because > they condemn events like the attacks on Gaza. I think this > kind of > action that runs the risk of being called 'treason' > are worthy of > being honoured. Right now, I am rooting for all those who > are being > called, or run the risk of being called 'traitors' > for opposing > militarist options in India, Pakistan, Israel and Palestine > by their > respective 'uber-patriotic' peers. > > Please find below, a report and a reflection on protests, > in Israel, > by Israeli people, against the Israeli state's assault > on Gaza. May > their tribe increase. Characteristically, these have been > reported > far less in the international media in comparison to the > protests > across the Arab and Islamic world. > > regards, > > Shuddha > > ------------------------ > > 1. Hundreds of activists in Tel Aviv protest IAF strike in > Gaza > By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent (Haaretz is a > mainstream but > liberal Israeli Newspaper) > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050470.html > > Hundreds of left-wing and human rights activists marched in > the > streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest the > massive Israel > Air Force offensive in Gaza that left at least 230 dead and > hundreds > more wounded. > > The protesters marched from Tel Aviv's Cinematheque > toward the > Defense Ministry offices. Police, some mounted on > horseback, > surrounded the protesters, arresting five of them. > > According to the protesters, Israel's military action > in Gaza does > not protect Israeli citizens or provide them security. > Advertisement > "No one can tell us that slaughtering the citizens of > Gaza is meant > to protect the citizens of Sderot and Ashkelon," said > Matan Kaminer, > a student who participated in the march. > > Some protesters complained of extraneous force on the part > of horse- > mounted police, but overall the march remained non-violent. > > Similar protests took place in Arab villages in the Galilee > and in > Bedouin villages in the Negev. > > 2. Onslaught on Gaza - protest on Day 1, in Tel-Aviv > Report by Adam Keller for The Other Israel, December-2008-- > > January-2009 issue > http://chet-justice.blogspot.com/2008/12/onslaught-on-gaza-protest-on- > > day-1-in.html > > Saturday, December 27 - a few minutes to midnight. War in > Gaza. It > has come. > > This morning, some of us got up with anxiety to listen to > the early > morning news, and go on hoping against hope for a few more > hours. > This morning, more than two hundred Gazans, whose names we > will > probably never know, woke up without guessing that is was > their last > morning. And also in the Israeli border town of Netivot, > the 58-years > old Beber Vaknin got up and went strolling through the > quiet weekend > streets of his hometown, not knowing that long before > sunset he would > become part of statistics. A very favourable body count > indeed for > Day 1 of Israel's newest war - one dead Israeli to 225 > Palestinians, > as of this hour. Cheers! > > The mass bombing and killing at 11.30 am came as a shocking > surprise > - even though there had been, in fact, no reason whatsoever > to feel > surprised. Out of our anger and outrage, sharp texts of > angry protest > and denunciation were feverishly written and hurled out to > other > activists, to the media, to anyone and everyone in Israel > and the > whole world who might possibly be willing to listen: > "The Gaza war is > the vicious folly of a bankrupt government", > "Barak conducts his > elections campaign by bloodshed on both sides of the > border." > > At record speed, a rendezvous for protest was suggested by > the > Coalition of Women for Peace and quickly taken up by > Hadash, Gush > Shalom, the Anarchists, Tarabut and also the Meretz > grassroots > network. The message spread among all by word of mouth and > phone and > email and SMS and Facebook: "Stop the War! Stop the > War! Gather at > 6.00 pm for > > "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for an > open planning > meeting at the Tel Aviv Cinemateque Square. We march out at > 7.30. > Come one, come all!" Friends were contacted in both > bombed Gaza and > bombed Sderot, both giving their heartfelt support to any > effort to > stop the madness. Transportation was improvised from Haifa > and > Jerusalem, and even from the Arab towns of Tyra and > Nazareth some > came to Tel-Aviv, though there were demonstrations going on > in their > hometowns. > > The police, too, had somehow heard of it. Long before six, > the > Cinemateque was surrounded on all sides - ordinary police > and riot > police and mounted police, and more and more patrol cars > arriving and > unloading additional ones every minute. "Look, these > ones don't carry > pistols - they have automatic rifles! Do they intend to > bring the war > here, too?" whispered a girl in an Animal Rights > t-shirt. > > On the side a dozen youngsters were intensively preparing > placards. > > "Stop the massacre!" / "Olmert's War - > Our Victims!" / "War is not > election s spin" / "No to the murder of > innocents!" / "We Israelis > say: The Government of Israel perpetrates War Crimes!" > / > "International Intervention Now!" / "EU, > Stop the War!". "Livni, > Murder is not Feminist!" / "Thou Shalt Not > Kill!" > > One slogan came up very often: "This is not my > war!" It was written > again and again in Hebrew, Arabic, English or a combination > of these. > > Meanwhile, there was an event taking place inside the > Cinemateque > building, planned long in advance, of the African refugee > community > in Israel›calling upon the authorities to give asylum to > the refugees > and not deport them. > > A young black woman came over, speaking of children in > Congo, her > homeland, being forced to work at mines and handle > carcinogenic > materials. The circumstances didn't allow to go in and > give this > cause the attention which it also deserves. > > By seven o'clock, the Cinemateque Square was crowded > with over a > thousand present. More than what one would expect in Israel > during > the very first hours of a war, amidst the kind of war fever > which the > Israeli media is capable of. > > Lines were formed, banners unfurled, and the drummers > started their > rhythm - but the police stretched their own line after > line, blocking > all exits. A large-scale violent clash seemed inevitable > but > organizers called out: Stop! Wait! and began negotiating. > After some > twenty tense minutes the call was sounded: Forward! and to > the wonder > of all, the police ranks parted to let protesters through. > > The compromise with the police was that the march take a > route to the > Ministry of Defence avoiding interference with main street > traffic. > The inhabitants of the normally tranquil Sprintzak Street > looked down > from their balconies to the ongoing stream of chanting > protesters: > > "Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies!" / In Gaza > and Sderot, Children > Want to Live!" / War is a disaster - Peace is the > solution!" / Stop > the War! Return to the Truce!" / Silence the guns - > Save the > peoples!" / Barak, Barak, hey, hey, hey - How many did > you kill > today?" / "Bloodshed will not buy you > power!" / "The blood is flowing > for the ministers' prestige!" / "The blood is > flowing for the polls > of the corrupt parties!" / "No to War! - Back to > Negotiations!" > > Even "No to War! - Yes to Peace!", which on most > days would sound > like a naive truism, was today a sharp radical message. > > For a considerable while, police did not intervene, but at > the corner > of Kaplan Street there was suddenly a charge of the mounted > police > directly into the crowd, a scuffle and angry shouts of > "Police > State!" - "Forward, forward!" called the > organizers. "We have an > appointment with Olmert at the Ministry of Defence." > > Several hundred metres to the right and the Ministry gates > appear on > the far side of the street. "Ladies and gentlemen of > the press - our > attack on Gaza today was surgical an pin-pointed", the > voice of > Olmert on the radio, which some activists put on, is > broadcast from > the towers across the street. "Liar, war > criminal!" rises the shout > as if answering from the street, and several young people > broke > through the police fences, trying to block the street - to > be > immediately dragged into the waiting patrol cars. > > It continued until half past nine when it was announced: > "We are > finished here for today, but we will continue to come back > until it > is over. Anyone willing to spend some more hours, join us > to picket > the police station where our friends are held." > > In the bus, on the way home, the radio - amidst all the war > reports > from the south - carried a short report of the > demonstration. The > number of protesters was given as two hundred... It was an > obvious > hostile reporting, a way of trying to diminish the > opposition to the > war. > > But maybe, one should not be too discouraged with getting > mentioned > at all, on such a day of media-orchestrated war euphoria. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aman.am at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 05:07:40 2009 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:37:40 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza In-Reply-To: <718632.84769.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <718632.84769.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <995a19920901031537m39804a0i96bbd8800d05d39e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, An addition to the roster of un(der)reported protests. In case this doesnt make it to the press,just attended a massive protest rally outside the Israeli consulate at 42nd Street in New York. The crowds stretched for almost 8 blocks all the way up to 50th Street. The organisers- Al Awda New York - claimed an attendance of nearly 20,000 - which did seem to be a bit excessive - but it certainly was a rather large and noisy crowd. There are protests planned for the coming weeks - a calendar of protests can be found at http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=1773 The tone of the protest was largely around pressuring the American administration to use its leverage with the Israeli state to end the attack - even as Israel announced plans of sending in tanks, armoured vehicles and troops. Other reports on a variety of news channel suggest that the Israeli Navy has also moved in. While the speakers - as at most rallies - had their own specific stands on the invasion, the culpability of the US, and the nature of the state of Israel; the main organisers made it a point to announce that they were not anti-semitic in any way, but were against a certain form of Zionism as manifested in the actions of the Israeli administration. The weather, by the way, was terrible. best a. On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Hi Shuddha, > What do you think the Indian state should do,in response to the recent terror attacks? > Thanks > Rahul > > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza > > To: "Reader-list list" > > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 6:02 PM > > Dear All, > > > > We are all aware of the terrible toll of unarmed civilian > > casualties > > caused by the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) air strike on > > Gaza a few > > days ago. It demonstrates yet again the willingness of > > those who > > currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of > > a lasting > > and durable peace with the Palestinian people. There is no > > other way > > to describe these air strikes other than as acts of gross > > state > > terrorism. > > > > Of course, Hamas, (which controls the West Bank, and whose > > origins > > lie in the cultivation by Israel of an 'Islamist > > Opposition' within > > the Palestinian ranks in the eighties and earlier ) with > > its own > > obduracy has contributed to the 'blowback' that > > holds the peace > > process in Israel-Palestine hostage to a never ending cycle > > of > > competitive retribution. > > > > Militant Zionists, Fundamentalist Islamists and inflexible > > > > Palestinian Nationalists have a joint vested interest in > > the > > perpetuation of conflict in a manner that should come as no > > surprise > > to those familiar with the faultlines and destinies of > > identity- > > based conflicts in South Asia. > > > > There are of course, a few stray voices in the Indian > > 'blogsphere' > > who are already calling for 'India to Emulate > > Israel'. Some of them, > > such as this one, > > > > http://blogs.expressindia.com/showblogdetails-comments.php? > > > > pg=2&contentid=393780 > > > > come from Dr. S. Subramaniam, IPS (Retd.) > > > > He says - > > > > "..A country which did not have a geographical > > existence before 1948 > > is continuing to show the way on how to respond to > > terrorism...They > > strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring > > standard > > international conventions and borders...India has to > > reassess its > > policy options and think of non traditional measures for > > tackling > > this menace.In this, we have a lot to learn from both > > Israel and USA." > > > > Dr. Subramaniam has had the distinction of being the > > former DG of > > NSG (National Security Guards) CRPF (Central Reserve Police > > Force) > > and Founder of SPG (Special Protection Group). So he is not > > exactly > > an audolescent Hindutva shadow warrior on testosterone who > > admires a > > bit of Israeli state muscle flexing (and there are lots of > > those). He > > is a former senior ranking officer who has held posts of > > great > > responsibility in the security establishment in India. I > > sincerely > > hope that his views represent the opinions of an isolated > > fringe that > > has no current influence in the corridors of power. > > > > However, especially at times like this, it becomes > > important to > > complicate the picture. Just as few Indians and > > Pakistanis (or so I > > hope) other than some hyperventilating television anchors > > and > > isolated armchair warriors within and without the military- > > > > intelligence complexes in India and Pakistan have been > > recently > > rooting for war, so too, there is a substantial component > > within the > > spectrum of Israeli public opinion and civil society that > > is outraged > > (and justly so) by the IDF's disproportionate and > > lethal show of > > force in Gaza. > > > > And just as many of those in India and Pakistan who are > > committed to > > combatting war hysteria and the hardening of postures have > > been > > condemned as 'traitors' by their jingoist peers. So > > too, many in > > Israel today are willing to stand up and be called > > 'traitors' because > > they condemn events like the attacks on Gaza. I think this > > kind of > > action that runs the risk of being called 'treason' > > are worthy of > > being honoured. Right now, I am rooting for all those who > > are being > > called, or run the risk of being called 'traitors' > > for opposing > > militarist options in India, Pakistan, Israel and Palestine > > by their > > respective 'uber-patriotic' peers. > > > > Please find below, a report and a reflection on protests, > > in Israel, > > by Israeli people, against the Israeli state's assault > > on Gaza. May > > their tribe increase. Characteristically, these have been > > reported > > far less in the international media in comparison to the > > protests > > across the Arab and Islamic world. > > > > regards, > > > > Shuddha > > > > ------------------------ > > > > 1. Hundreds of activists in Tel Aviv protest IAF strike in > > Gaza > > By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent (Haaretz is a > > mainstream but > > liberal Israeli Newspaper) > > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050470.html > > > > Hundreds of left-wing and human rights activists marched in > > the > > streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest the > > massive Israel > > Air Force offensive in Gaza that left at least 230 dead and > > hundreds > > more wounded. > > > > The protesters marched from Tel Aviv's Cinematheque > > toward the > > Defense Ministry offices. Police, some mounted on > > horseback, > > surrounded the protesters, arresting five of them. > > > > According to the protesters, Israel's military action > > in Gaza does > > not protect Israeli citizens or provide them security. > > Advertisement > > "No one can tell us that slaughtering the citizens of > > Gaza is meant > > to protect the citizens of Sderot and Ashkelon," said > > Matan Kaminer, > > a student who participated in the march. > > > > Some protesters complained of extraneous force on the part > > of horse- > > mounted police, but overall the march remained non-violent. > > > > Similar protests took place in Arab villages in the Galilee > > and in > > Bedouin villages in the Negev. > > > > 2. Onslaught on Gaza - protest on Day 1, in Tel-Aviv > > Report by Adam Keller for The Other Israel, December-2008-- > > > > January-2009 issue > > http://chet-justice.blogspot.com/2008/12/onslaught-on-gaza-protest-on- > > > > day-1-in.html > > > > Saturday, December 27 - a few minutes to midnight. War in > > Gaza. It > > has come. > > > > This morning, some of us got up with anxiety to listen to > > the early > > morning news, and go on hoping against hope for a few more > > hours. > > This morning, more than two hundred Gazans, whose names we > > will > > probably never know, woke up without guessing that is was > > their last > > morning. And also in the Israeli border town of Netivot, > > the 58-years > > old Beber Vaknin got up and went strolling through the > > quiet weekend > > streets of his hometown, not knowing that long before > > sunset he would > > become part of statistics. A very favourable body count > > indeed for > > Day 1 of Israel's newest war - one dead Israeli to 225 > > Palestinians, > > as of this hour. Cheers! > > > > The mass bombing and killing at 11.30 am came as a shocking > > surprise > > - even though there had been, in fact, no reason whatsoever > > to feel > > surprised. Out of our anger and outrage, sharp texts of > > angry protest > > and denunciation were feverishly written and hurled out to > > other > > activists, to the media, to anyone and everyone in Israel > > and the > > whole world who might possibly be willing to listen: > > "The Gaza war is > > the vicious folly of a bankrupt government", > > "Barak conducts his > > elections campaign by bloodshed on both sides of the > > border." > > > > At record speed, a rendezvous for protest was suggested by > > the > > Coalition of Women for Peace and quickly taken up by > > Hadash, Gush > > Shalom, the Anarchists, Tarabut and also the Meretz > > grassroots > > network. The message spread among all by word of mouth and > > phone and > > email and SMS and Facebook: "Stop the War! Stop the > > War! Gather at > > 6.00 pm for > > > > "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for an > > open planning > > meeting at the Tel Aviv Cinemateque Square. We march out at > > 7.30. > > Come one, come all!" Friends were contacted in both > > bombed Gaza and > > bombed Sderot, both giving their heartfelt support to any > > effort to > > stop the madness. Transportation was improvised from Haifa > > and > > Jerusalem, and even from the Arab towns of Tyra and > > Nazareth some > > came to Tel-Aviv, though there were demonstrations going on > > in their > > hometowns. > > > > The police, too, had somehow heard of it. Long before six, > > the > > Cinemateque was surrounded on all sides - ordinary police > > and riot > > police and mounted police, and more and more patrol cars > > arriving and > > unloading additional ones every minute. "Look, these > > ones don't carry > > pistols - they have automatic rifles! Do they intend to > > bring the war > > here, too?" whispered a girl in an Animal Rights > > t-shirt. > > > > On the side a dozen youngsters were intensively preparing > > placards. > > > > "Stop the massacre!" / "Olmert's War - > > Our Victims!" / "War is not > > election s spin" / "No to the murder of > > innocents!" / "We Israelis > > say: The Government of Israel perpetrates War Crimes!" > > / > > "International Intervention Now!" / "EU, > > Stop the War!". "Livni, > > Murder is not Feminist!" / "Thou Shalt Not > > Kill!" > > > > One slogan came up very often: "This is not my > > war!" It was written > > again and again in Hebrew, Arabic, English or a combination > > of these. > > > > Meanwhile, there was an event taking place inside the > > Cinemateque > > building, planned long in advance, of the African refugee > > community > > in Israel›calling upon the authorities to give asylum to > > the refugees > > and not deport them. > > > > A young black woman came over, speaking of children in > > Congo, her > > homeland, being forced to work at mines and handle > > carcinogenic > > materials. The circumstances didn't allow to go in and > > give this > > cause the attention which it also deserves. > > > > By seven o'clock, the Cinemateque Square was crowded > > with over a > > thousand present. More than what one would expect in Israel > > during > > the very first hours of a war, amidst the kind of war fever > > which the > > Israeli media is capable of. > > > > Lines were formed, banners unfurled, and the drummers > > started their > > rhythm - but the police stretched their own line after > > line, blocking > > all exits. A large-scale violent clash seemed inevitable > > but > > organizers called out: Stop! Wait! and began negotiating. > > After some > > twenty tense minutes the call was sounded: Forward! and to > > the wonder > > of all, the police ranks parted to let protesters through. > > > > The compromise with the police was that the march take a > > route to the > > Ministry of Defence avoiding interference with main street > > traffic. > > The inhabitants of the normally tranquil Sprintzak Street > > looked down > > from their balconies to the ongoing stream of chanting > > protesters: > > > > "Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies!" / In Gaza > > and Sderot, Children > > Want to Live!" / War is a disaster - Peace is the > > solution!" / Stop > > the War! Return to the Truce!" / Silence the guns - > > Save the > > peoples!" / Barak, Barak, hey, hey, hey - How many did > > you kill > > today?" / "Bloodshed will not buy you > > power!" / "The blood is flowing > > for the ministers' prestige!" / "The blood is > > flowing for the polls > > of the corrupt parties!" / "No to War! - Back to > > Negotiations!" > > > > Even "No to War! - Yes to Peace!", which on most > > days would sound > > like a naive truism, was today a sharp radical message. > > > > For a considerable while, police did not intervene, but at > > the corner > > of Kaplan Street there was suddenly a charge of the mounted > > police > > directly into the crowd, a scuffle and angry shouts of > > "Police > > State!" - "Forward, forward!" called the > > organizers. "We have an > > appointment with Olmert at the Ministry of Defence." > > > > Several hundred metres to the right and the Ministry gates > > appear on > > the far side of the street. "Ladies and gentlemen of > > the press - our > > attack on Gaza today was surgical an pin-pointed", the > > voice of > > Olmert on the radio, which some activists put on, is > > broadcast from > > the towers across the street. "Liar, war > > criminal!" rises the shout > > as if answering from the street, and several young people > > broke > > through the police fences, trying to block the street - to > > be > > immediately dragged into the waiting patrol cars. > > > > It continued until half past nine when it was announced: > > "We are > > finished here for today, but we will continue to come back > > until it > > is over. Anyone willing to spend some more hours, join us > > to picket > > the police station where our friends are held." > > > > In the bus, on the way home, the radio - amidst all the war > > reports > > from the south - carried a short report of the > > demonstration. The > > number of protesters was given as two hundred... It was an > > obvious > > hostile reporting, a way of trying to diminish the > > opposition to the > > war. > > > > But maybe, one should not be too discouraged with getting > > mentioned > > at all, on such a day of media-orchestrated war euphoria. > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 11:49:35 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:49:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan Message-ID: Ten myths about Pakistan 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, Mohammed Hanif Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did fighting India. Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not want another Musharraf. Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of years have become its biggest liability. Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and shelters for sick animals. It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan took much notice. All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him seriously. Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 15:03:11 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:03:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Stay order defied at Nepal temple Message-ID: <6353c690901040133m38f9b98h35af8c60250b14b6@mail.gmail.com> * Stay order defied at Nepal temple *Prerana Marasini KATHMANDU: The newly-appointed priests performed rituals at the Pashupatinath Temple here for the second day on Friday though the Supreme Court in a stay order on Thursday directed them not to do so. The court had issued the order to the Pashupati Area Development Trust (PADT) but the officials say they came to know about it only through news. "We haven't received anything in writing," Shyam Sekhar Jha, Director of the Trust, told *The Hindu.* "We cannot implement anything unless we get the decision in hand and discuss it." The three Indian priests, who had been working at the temple, had submitted their resignations at different times but they were accepted by the PADT at once. Head priest Mahabaleswar had been working at the temple for more than 15 years. Meanwhile, Mr. Jha said the priests had cited health problems for resigning. "We even requested them to come to the temple and perform puja, but they didn't turn up." Some sections of society opposed the decision to replace the priests terming it "politicisation of religion". The Prime Minister is the patron of the temple. The new priests are alleged to be Maoists. The government is also blamed for breaking the tradition without adhering to the procedures to hire new ones. President approached A delegation of the Constituent Assembly members met President Ram Baran Yadav on Friday and asked for help in resolving the chaos. According to a member Suprabha Ghimire, Mr Yadav said he would consult the government soon on the matter. The tradition of conducting the main rituals by Indian priests had started long before Nepal was united by King Prithvi Narayan Shah. Nepal was the only Hindu Kingdom in the world until 2006, when the interim government turned it to a secular country. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 15:06:09 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:06:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Maoists have outraged Hindus: Nepal Minister Message-ID: <6353c690901040136u4c7f01bw9b76600cda0a11fd@mail.gmail.com> *PASHUPATINATH TEMPLE ROW* Maoists have outraged Hindus: Nepal Minister *CNN-IBN Link - http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maoists-have-hurt-hindu-sentiments-nepal-minister/81919-2.html * *New Delhi:* Nepal's Foreign Minister has blamed his Maoist allies for the removal of Indian priests at the Pashupatinath temple in Kathmandu and accused Prime Minister Prachanda of not punishing the people who stormed the shrine on Thursday. Workers of the Young Communist League (YCL), the youth wing of the ruling Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), on Thursday defied court orders and appointed their own priests at the temple in place of Indian priests who claim they have been conducting rituals at the shrine for 300 years. "The Prime Minister and his cadres YCL are responsible for this. This is against Hinduism and this is against Hindu sentiment," Foreign Minister Upendra Yadav told CNN-IBN from Kathmandu. "This is an anti-religious move. They are trying to capture the Pashupatinath temple and disturb religious activities." Yadav accused the Maoists of bringing politics into a "religious matters". "We condemn and criticise this. Protests are going on against Maoist activities," he said. The dispute at the temple began in December 2008 with three Indian priests submitting their resignation under pressure, allegedly from the Maoist government, and the Pashupatinath Area Development Trust (PADT) appointing two Nepali priests. Nepal's Supreme Court ordered a stay on the PADT order after aides of the Indian priests filed a petition, alleging that the trust had overridden all procedures to make political appointments. Devotees, for the first time in the history of the temple, were unable to offer worship on January 1 because of the controversy, which now may snowball into a diplomatic dispute between India and Nepal because of the Maoist youth wing's action. Nepal's former king Gyanendra, who was the patron of the temple, has urged that issue not be politicised. "I appeal all not to politicise the current Pashupatinath Temple issue and maintain the religious harmony for which Nepal is adored the world over" said the former monarch in a statement issued on Sunday. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 01:44:32 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:14:32 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan References: Message-ID: <24B6440BFE624EE5A697955EFEA3F8B9@tara> I wonder if this article is talking about Pakistan or Pakistanis. Generally when media talks about a country, India, Pakistan, US etc., they mean the governments not the people. If you need to know about the nexus between Pakistan state apparatuses and these Jihadi groups, one can just visit www.bbcurdu.com As far as I know, this site is not part of the Indian media. BBC Urdu service, that has its headqurters in Pakistan, and that was first to send its correspondents to Kasab's village to confirm his identity as a Pakistani national, is running a feature on Jihadis and Pakistan establishment links. The site also has an interview with Hamid Gul, former ISI chief and one of the founding members of these jihadi groups. On being asked "what was the relevance of these groups once the USSR forces had been defeated in Afghanistan?" Gul says that earlier the US had an even-handed approach towards India and Pakistan. But now there is a tilt towards India, so these nonstate actors are required as a deterant to India. The author of the below article also ignores the fact that different Jihadi groups are working towards different agenda. So much so that Pakistan establishment differs between good taliban, those who don't attack Pakistani army, and bad Taliban, those who destroy pakistani infrastructure. So much about the homogenity of these groups. How much active these Jihadi groups in the Indian territory, is also dependent on what kind of relationship India and Pakistan governments have. So much about decoupling of the Pakistani state and these groups. I wonder if the mango exporting author heard that Navaz Sharif interview that was not broadcast only on India media. In the interview given to one of the Pakistani channels Sharif said that the government had something to hide in Faridkot. I wonder if the mango exporting author reads anything by Hoodboy and Mariana Babar, both Pakistanis. Yes, Indian media have lots of shortcommings, but before anyone from Pakistan addresses them, they need to first put their house in order. ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Javed" To: "sarai list" Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan > Ten myths about Pakistan > 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > Mohammed Hanif > > Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can > sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place > on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian > reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in > recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its > citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... > > Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the > jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the > jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. > Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags > the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage > of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has > lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did > fighting India. > > Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that > General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the > army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased > jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country > he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its > own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian > middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, > put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the > law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying > that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never > have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not > want another Musharraf. > > Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very > diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General > Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being > Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed > Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to > some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably > heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army > having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. > > Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a > sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than > India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish > extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other > strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of > years have become its biggest liability. > > Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not > noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have > become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they > turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and > fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase > from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul > Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and > shelters for sick animals. > > It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this > country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more > than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the > largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was > spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't > raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan > took much notice. > > All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - > Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India > sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on > Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than > destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who > hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a > woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much > that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, > DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these > jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him > seriously. > > Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of > Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite > targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities > they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do > you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow > yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles > targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should > switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. > > RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a > brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. > Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own > people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious > brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the > Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. > > Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the > mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, > and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then > Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry > in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the > countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a > lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide > in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi > because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our > mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. > > The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aman.am at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 02:26:30 2009 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:56:30 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan In-Reply-To: <24B6440BFE624EE5A697955EFEA3F8B9@tara> References: <24B6440BFE624EE5A697955EFEA3F8B9@tara> Message-ID: <995a19920901041256w1ab288e3o5956ca71d4eec157@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Mohammed Hanif is in fact, the HEAD of the BBC Urdu service, - the very same service that you so approvingly quote. So I would give him far more credence than you have. Further, since the BBC Urdu appears to be a paragon of journalistic practice - i think he is well suited to make a few remarks on the stereotypical way in which pakistan is portrayed in the Indian media. I find it really amusing that indians can dedicate reams to pointing out (in painful detail i might add) how barkha dutt or rajdeep sardesai got it wrong - but when a pakistani writes a reasonably illuminating opinion piece - he is asked to put his house in order. best a. On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:14 PM, taraprakash wrote: > I wonder if this article is talking about Pakistan or Pakistanis. Generally > when media talks about a country, India, Pakistan, US etc., they mean the > governments not the people. If you need to know about the nexus between > Pakistan state apparatuses and these Jihadi groups, one can just visit > www.bbcurdu.com > As far as I know, this site is not part of the Indian media. BBC Urdu > service, that has its headqurters in Pakistan, and that was first to send > its correspondents to Kasab's village to confirm his identity as a Pakistani > national, is running a feature on Jihadis and Pakistan establishment links. > The site also has an interview with Hamid Gul, former ISI chief and one of > the founding members of these jihadi groups. On being asked "what was the > relevance of these groups once the USSR forces had been defeated in > Afghanistan?" Gul says that earlier the US had an even-handed approach > towards India and Pakistan. But now there is a tilt towards India, so these > nonstate actors are required as a deterant to India. The author of the below > article also ignores the fact that different Jihadi groups are working > towards different agenda. So much so that Pakistan establishment differs > between good taliban, those who don't attack Pakistani army, and bad > Taliban, those who destroy pakistani infrastructure. So much about the > homogenity of these groups. How much active these Jihadi groups in the > Indian territory, is also dependent on what kind of relationship India and > Pakistan governments have. So much about decoupling of the Pakistani state > and these groups. I wonder if the mango exporting author heard that Navaz > Sharif interview that was not broadcast only on India media. In the > interview given to one of the Pakistani channels Sharif said that the > government had something to hide in Faridkot. I wonder if the mango > exporting author reads anything by Hoodboy and Mariana Babar, both > Pakistanis. Yes, Indian media have lots of shortcommings, but before anyone > from Pakistan addresses them, they need to first put their house in order. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M Javed" > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:19 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan > > >> Ten myths about Pakistan >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >> Mohammed Hanif >> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... >> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did >> fighting India. >> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the >> law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying >> that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not >> want another Musharraf. >> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably >> heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. >> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a >> sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of >> years have become its biggest liability. >> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and >> fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase >> from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and >> shelters for sick animals. >> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the >> largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan >> took much notice. >> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him >> seriously. >> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do >> you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. >> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. >> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, >> and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry >> in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the >> countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi >> because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 04:01:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:31:54 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-29 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901041431i42e017deo3763348bce47620e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050426/asp/nation/story_4662351.asp The Telegraph Tuesday, April 26, 2005 Nobody?s children for Dhaka, residents for Delhi ALOKE TIKKU New Delhi, April 25: Indians will have to learn to live with illegal Bangladeshi immigrants. The government is coming round to the view that there is no way India can deport the immigrants to Bangladesh when Dhaka refuses to acknowledge them as its citizens. Officials say every time an illegal immigrant is refused Bangladeshi citizenship, international law and convention require that India let them stay on. They are not eligible for all the rights that an Indian citizen can claim but can continue to stay in India. Under the multipurpose national identity card scheme ? the pilot project has been delayed and is expected to be completed this year-end ? the government has decided to give them a resident card instead of a citizenship card. Technically, the officials say, once Dhaka disowns its nationals living in India, they become ?stateless?. International conventions require that they be allowed to live in the country where they are found till a decision is reached on their citizenship status. An official said the only other way to send them back to Bangladesh is to push them illegally through the border. Government officials have long conceded this is what the border forces do but the numbers have never been significant to make a difference. ?But it is rather uncivilised and not something that anyone ? on this side or that ? should be doing to deal with a problem involving human beings,? an official said, pointing out the best way to deal with the problem was to speed up erecting the border fence and strengthen policing. ?Everything else that the government says or does is to cater to its political constituency,? an official said, hinting at the Delhi police plan, once submitted to the high court, that promises to deport 100 Bangladeshi nationals every day. From 2001 to June last year, Delhi police claimed to have deported 12,200 people. The officials, however, concede that most of them would have come back through the porous border. ?Many of them, specially in a place like Delhi, treat it as a forced-but-paid holiday?. They only need to spend money on their return journey,? one of them said. The Border Security Force is fed up of managing hundreds of people whenever any state goes into overdrive to round up immigrants and sends them to the border for deportation proceedings. According to a group of ministers on national security, there were 1.2 crore Bangladeshi immigrants in the country in 2001 with 50 lakh in Assam alone. The UPA government has, however, rubbished this estimate, arguing that there is no basis for this figure. But it has acknowledged that the number is significant. It was this view in the government that prompted home minister Shivraj Patil to declare after the chief ministers? conference in Delhi last week that the problem of Bangladeshi immigrants had to be handled in a humane manner. Patil also pointed out that though the problem cannot be overlooked it is important not to blow it out of proportion. ?It should be looked at in the right perspective,? he declared after listening to seven chief ministers, including those of Bengal and Maharashtra, who had sought action from the Centre. Top From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 04:03:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:33:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-29 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901041433h1b8f36d3p4c3d418b91ef9b5d@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050823/asp/nation/story_5136259.asp The Telegraph Tuesday, August 23, 2005 | Report taking shape amid infiltration buzz DEVADEEP PUROHIT Berhampore, Aug. 22: The Murshidabad district administration is in the final stages of preparing its report on the multipurpose national identity card project that should give some idea of the problem of infiltration in this border region. Over 2.55 lakh people in Murshidabad municipality and Murshidabad Jiaganj block were covered under the pilot project, the survey throwing up the alarming possibility that some 90 per cent of the population have failed to show proof of nationality according to any one of the 20-odd criteria. M.N. Prasad, the district magistrate of Murshidabad, said: "We are towards the end of the verification process in these two localities. We are yet to complete it for around 15,000 people and the report will be ready once we cover them." "Since the report is not ready, we are not in a position to comment on how many people could produce the documents. But the trend suggests that it will be around 30 per cent." Political parties dismiss suggestions of only 9-10 per cent of the population being able to provide some citizenship proof. "Since it is a border district, people presume infiltration is high in Murshidabad. But we are not aware of such infiltration," said Mannan Hossain, member of Parliament from Murshidabad. Though there is no comparable data for other districts, figures available from government sources suggest a high incidence of infiltration in Murshidabad. Population density in Murshidabad is around 1,100 against the state average of 902 and population in the district has grown by 23.7 per cent in the last decade. "These figures are not only high, but also growing with time and there is no doubt that infiltration is one of the reasons behind the numbers," said an official involved in the project, stressing the need for fencing the India-Bangladesh border. The demographic composition has changed, again indicating infiltration. "The percentage of the Hindu population came down from 44.6 in 1951 to 35.92 in 2001, while the Muslim population grew from 55.24 to 63.67 in the same period. These are known facts, but politicians prefer silence," the official added. Infiltration may be taking a heavy toll. Over 2.15 lakh people in the district ? the highest in the state ? are covered under the Antyodaya Anna Yojana, showing the extent of poverty. The literacy rate is only 55 per cent and Murshidabad stands 15th among 17 districts ranked by a government-backed survey in terms of the human development index. While miseries have multiplied for the people, infiltration has created a political dimension. The number of Assembly seats in the state has increased from 19 to 22 in the constituency delimitation exercise. "That's why identity cards and fencing along the borders are a must in these areas," said a senior Border Security Force official. He stressed the importance of the ID card project, which has been rolled out to prepare a population register of over 3 million people. Id cards will be distributed to people possessing any of the 20-odd documents the government has specified as proof of Indian nationality. The two localities from Murshidabad are part of a Rs 20-crore nationwide pilot project covering bordering districts in 13 states. "Those with the documents will be included in the draft citizen register, while the citizenship of the rest will be in suspense and their names will feature in the draft register of residence. We will publish these registers," said Prasad. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 04:06:04 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:36:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-30 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901041436h741ed719ofc175d1cf71267ca@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2006/12/06/stories/2006120605460300.htm The Hindu Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Dec 06, 2006 ePaper MNIC: Training programme inaugurated at Thiruvadanai Staff Reporter Verification process under way in Thondi and R.S. Mangalam town panchayats RAMANATHAPURAM: Chandrakant Kamble, Director (Census), has sought the cooperation of Thiruvadanai residents to complete the task of issuing Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) to them. Speaking at the inauguration of a training programme for field-level staff, including Village Administrative Officers, at Thiruvadanai on Monday, he said the Central Government selected Thiruvadanai taluk for the pilot project to provide MNIC to all Indian citizens because of the good track record of this taluk in successfully implementing several pilot projects earlier. Mr. Kamle said that the final phase of work was important to prepare hundred per cent error-free list of Indian citizens. The people should meet the VAO, `Makkal Nala Panialarkal' or panchayat assistant to verify their name, family members' name and other details. If they found any error, they should immediately intimate the officials concerned with proper application forms. Awareness campaign Pamphlets, wallpapers, newspaper advertisements and others would be issued to create awareness among the people. Tom tom (tandora) and other public address system would also be used. Collector K.S. Muthuswaamy said that verification process was undertaken in Thondi and R.S. Mangalam town panchayats, 82 panchayats and two panchayat unions. Forty-six VAOs, 82 panchayat assistants and 82 `Makkal Nala Paniyalarkal' were also engaged in the work. And 306 teams were formed for the verification process. Village Administrative Officers were the custodians of these records. Mr. Muthuswaamy said officials such as Revenue Divisional Officer, tahsildar and deputy tahsildar would crosscheck the information in order to ensure accurate details. So far, 1,27,432 persons in Thiruvadanai taluk had been photographed for the MNIC and nearly 32,000 persons were to be photographed. Out of 1.81 lakh verified persons, records produced by 1.67 lakh were found to be valid. About 14,000 documents were proved to be invalid proof. He said those who had not produced documents such as birth certificate and land record could arrange individual affidavits. It would be accepted as a valid record. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 04:08:47 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:38:47 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-31 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901041438j2b3a69ccoa573f67110a96b63@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=6758 PIB Thursday, January 27, 2005 National Conference of Chief Registrars of Births and Deaths begins STATES ASKED TO CONTINUOUSLY MONITOR SEX RATIO 12:57 IST The Centre has asked the states to continuously monitor the sex ratio at birth so that the practice of prenatal sex determination and sex related abortions could be checked effectively. Inaugurating the Annual National Conference of the Chief Registrars of Births & Deaths here today, the Home Minister, Shri Shivraj Patil drew attention to the deteriorating sex ratio as revealed by the 2001 Census and said that the trend is disturbing. From 945 girls per 1000 boys in the age group 0-6 in 1991, the child sex ratio declined to 927 girls per 1000 boys in the 2001 census. 31 States and Union Territories covering 477 districts registered a decline in the child sex ratio in the 2001 census. The number of districts where the child sex ratio is below 900 increased from 69 in 1991 to 118 in 2001. Shri Patil said that this is reflective of the practice of female foeticide and even infanticide. The Home Minister expressed concern that even after 30 years of implementation of the Registration of Births & Deaths Act, 1969 under which registration of both births and deaths is compulsory, about half of these vital events are not being registered. He said that the States should preferably hand over the work of registration of births and deaths to Panchayats. He observed that when the country is poised to become one of the major economic powers in the world, it could ill-afford to have a system of vital statistics that did not capture cent percent births and deaths. Shri Patil stressed the need to make use of IT for the purpose of improving birth and death registration and assured all support to the states in this effort. Earlier, in his presentation on the status of birth and death registration, the Registrar General of India, Shri D.K. Sikri indicated that about 57% of the births and 51% of the deaths only were being registered in the country. He pointed out that issuing a birth certificate free of charge on registration of the birth was mandatory under the law but was not taking place in many parts of the country. The National Campaign on Issue of Birth Certificates launched by the President of India on 14th November 2003 has resulted in more than 3.04 crore birth certificates being issued during one year. The Government of India and UNICEF would be supporting the State governments for improving the registration system so that the target of 100% registration by 2010 set by the National Population Policy 2000 could be achieved. The Conference would review the working of the Civil Registration System in the States to find out ways and means to improve the levels of registration of births and deaths so that the target of 100% registration could be achieved within the stipulated time. The Conference would discuss monitoring of sex ratio at birth based on registration records; ensuring the issue of birth/death certificates free of charge on registration within 21 days; standardization of birth/death certificate formats so that they have a similar design across the country; computerization of Civil Registration System so as to improve citizen services; implementation of Medical Certification of Causes of Death so as to collect high quality data on the underlying causes of death; and issues relating to updating of the Population Register through birth and death registers in the areas where pilot project on Multipurpose National Identity Card is being implemented. The Chief Registrars of Births & Deaths of various States, Principal Secretaries/Secretaries in charge of the Civil Registration System in some States, representatives of UNICEF and officials of the Office of the Registrar General, India and Directorates of Census Operations are attending the two day conference. OK/ 270105 - RGI From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 04:10:46 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:40:46 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-32 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901041440u10a440dan935c71f135f27ce2@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050318/asp/nation/story_4507832.asp The Telegraph Friday, March 18, 2005 | Nation at a Glance Apex court notice on migrant law New Delhi: Deportation of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants took an all-India hue with the Supreme Court directing the Centre to file its reply on issuing multi-purpose national identity cards to all citizens and extending the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunal) Act, especially to Delhi and Bengal, reports our legal correspondent. The state of Bengal and a petitioner from Delhi had filed pleas seeking a directive to the Centre to extend the Illegal Migrants Act to their states. The court also asked the Centre to file an action taken report on the 1998 submission of the Assam governor that continued influx of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants had altered the demography of the region. A three-judge bench of Chief Justice R.C. Lahoti and Justices G.P. Mathur and P.K. Balasubramanyan sought an action taken report on creating and updating the National Citizenship Register, pending since 1951. The creation of the register was a major aspect of the Assam accord. The All India Lawyers Forum for Civil Liberties, Asom Gana Parishad MP Sarabananda Sonowal and Ramesh Borpatra Gohain from Assam had filed petitions seeking a directive to deport the Bangladeshis. The state of Bengal, the Jamait Ulama-e-Hind of Assam, and Abu Hanif of Delhi filed petitions opposing the plea and seeking a directive to continue with the Illegal Migrants Act and extend it to other states. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 04:13:07 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:43:07 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-33 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901041443r7e6eb3dbs27d77795b79fd840@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/full_story.php?content_id=84350 Columns Indian Express Wednesday, December 21, 2005 India connected, India Empowered A billion people and perhaps as many problems. But we have the technology and the talent APJ ABDUL KALAM E-Governance grid I visualise an election scenario, where a candidate files his nomination from a particular constituency. Immediately the election officer verifies his/her authenticity from the national citizen ID database through multifactor authentication, through a multipurpose citizen ID card. His education credentials come from the university records. His track record of employment comes from various employers with whom he had worked. His income and wealth resources come from the income-tax department, and other sources. His property record comes from the registration of land authority across the country. His credit history comes from various credit institutions like banks. His/her civic consciousness and citizenship behaviour comes from the police crime record. His legal track records come from the judicial system. All the details arrive at the computer terminal of the election officer within a few seconds automatically by the act of e-governance software agents which crawls across the various state and central government web services directories through the network grid and collects the information automatically and presents the facts in real-time without any bias. Artificial intelligence software analyses his credentials and gives a rating on how successful he will be as a politician. The election officer sitting at the remote block of the country decides on the spot and the election process starts. The voters vote from home through virtual polling booths. From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 04:21:41 2009 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:51:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On WHITE TIGER and SES OF POPPIES Message-ID: <418f44e20901041451x457a57e4pd2210ab761f11aba@mail.gmail.com> *Oceans Apart* *Kalpana Wilson* 'The wind had fallen off, so there was not a fleck of white visible on the surface, and with the afternoon sun glaring down, the water was as dark and still as the cloak of shadows that covers the opening of an abyss. Like the others around her, Deeti stared in stupefaction: it was impossible to think of this as water at all - for water surely needed a boundary, a rim, a shore, to give it shape and hold it in place? This was a firmament, like the night sky, holding the vessel aloft as if it were a planet or a star.' *- Sea of Poppies* At first glance completely antithetical – *The White Tiger *and *Sea of Poppies*, both shortlisted for this year's Booker Prize, share some common features and themes. Both begin in apparently isolated closed boundaried settings of villages in the plains of Bihar and eastern UP. And in both, this is a starting point for physical and metaphorical journeys across a world shaped by capitalist globalisation. In both the transformations wrought by these processes are subjected to a bitterly critical gaze. Here however the similarity ends. One might assume that Adiga's short (if not very sharp) tale of a Bihari driver's experiences in 21st century Delhi, contemporary in subject and self-consciously innovative in form - has more immediacy for left and progressive readers than Ghosh's panoramic and classically constructed novel of 19th century migration to Mauritius. But reading both books leaves one with the inescapable feeling that whereas *The White Tiger* is designed to be all too superficial and ultimately palatable in its portrayal of the (apparently specifically Indian) inequalities of globalisation, *Sea of Poppies* raises, and powerfully sustains, much more fundamental questions about the nature of the expansion of capitalism, through its subtle and highly evocative narration of the experiences and emotions of a range of characters, and also gives one clues as to why it was Adiga's book which was chosen to win the prestigious Booker Prize. Written as a series of letters from a Bangalore-based 'Indian entrepreneur' to the Chinese premier, *The White Tiger* is the story of Munna, born in a village in Gaya district, the son of a rickshaw puller and a mother who is soon to die of TB. Having been allocated the more 'respectable' name of Balram at school, he is dubbed 'White Tiger' - 'the creature that comes along only once in a generation' by a visiting inspector of schools who marks him out as a rare example of 'an intelligent honest vivacious fellow'. But Balram's education is soon cut short when he is taken out of school to work in a tea shop as part of the conditions of a loan his family takes from one of the village landlords to meet the expenses of his cousin sister's wedding. By shrewdly listening in on the conversations of customers, Balram gathers that his best option is to become a driver, an ambition he doggedly pursues. Seeking employment in Dhanbad, he is taken on as 'Number Two Driver' and all-round servant by the same landlord. Quite soon (having dispatched driver number one by threatening to expose his Muslim background) he is on his way to Delhi as driver to the younger son of the family, the liberal, cosseted Ashok, newly returned from America, and his wife Pinky. Ashok's main activity in Delhi turns out to be to bribe various ministers and politicians on behalf of the family's illicit coal business – and as Balram drives him to these assignations interspersed with endless trips to malls, restaurants and nightclubs, he becomes increasingly aware that 'these days, there are just two castes: Men with Big Bellies, and Men with Small Bellies. And only two destinies: eat – or get eaten up'. With a series of events compounding Balram's awareness of the material and psychological barriers preventing him crossing from one group to the other, and an arrogantly oblivious Ashok leaving him in charge of ever greater sums of bribe money, the stage is set for Balram to murder his employer and flee to Bangalore with the 'red bag' of cash. Having established his own successful business, he sets out to explain with obvious irony, 'how entrepreneurship is born, nurtured and developed in this, the glorious twenty-first century of man. The century, more specifically, of the *yellow* and the *brown* man.' *The White Tiger* veers between detailed and highly specific descriptions of the world Balram enters as a servant in Gurgaon, and a crudely simplified code used to describe the world he leaves behind in Bihar – lower castes become 'Pigherders', a powerful and corrupt politician, possibly intended as an amalgam of Laloo and Mulayam, is 'the Great Socialist' (he is a 'pigherder' too) and most tellingly, the entire Gangetic plain is referred to simply as 'the Darkness'. Of course, the tactic of caricaturing and renaming has been used effectively in many political satires – particularly under conditions of censorship and repression - but *The White Tiger* lacks the sharpness and accuracy to be one of them. Rather, it seems to be mainly in order to make his book more 'accessible' to Western readers that Adiga has simplified to this extent – an impression which is intensified by the fact that he translates even proper names, however incongruous the results: Balram's grandmother is referred to as 'Kusum Granny'; an older stranger is addressed as 'Muslim uncle'. In any case, Adiga's own disdain for political distinctions is clear – and is very much in tune with the metropolitan elite's view of Bihar. Thus the 'Great Socialist's party is shown sloganeering not about 'social justice' but 'stand up to the rich', the landlords form a party called the All India Social Progressive Front (Leninist Faction) and 'Naxals' main activity is kidnapping the children of the rich. It is perhaps not surprising then that there is little in the descriptions of Balram's early life which evoke any sense of place: this is very much Bihar-by-numbers, with set-pieces such as the description of vote rigging or of the hospital devoid of doctors where Balram's father dies. Tellingly, the most convincing observations are those which a traveller passing though might make from the road: the village bus-stand, for example. The characters too are seen through the lens of an outsider – Balram's father is described as a man with a sense of dignity 'despite' being a rickshaw puller, 'a human beast of burden'. But this is shown by the fact that he chooses to remain standing while waiting for long hours rather than squatting 'hunched over' on the ground which, apparently, is 'the posture common to servants in every part of India'. One cannot help wondering if servants are perhaps the only people Adiga has met who find such a position comfortable! While Balram retains some affection for his father and his elder brother Kishan, the women of his large extended family, led by his hypocritical, grasping grandmother, are portrayed as parasitically driving the men to premature death – they are described as 'pouncing' on the men who return home with their earnings as migrant labourers 'like wildcats on a slab of flesh', more concerned with feeding the family buffalo than the men of the household, and responsible for forcing the boys of the family into child labour and the young men into early marriage for the sake of dowry. When Balram returns home to find Kishan 'thinner, and darker….' he imagines that instead of chicken the women 'had served me flesh from Kishan's own body on that plate.' While it could be argued that the misogyny is Balram's rather than Adiga's, the author clearly shares his protagonist's distorted perception that women of all classes only consume. Why else, for example, are there no women in the world of domestic servants in Delhi – where are all the maids and ayahs, so many of whom have also migrated to Delhi from Bihar and Jharkhand to work? Ultimately, Balram's family's poverty is explained all too stereotypically in terms of the joint family system, too many children, a penchant for lavish weddings – and with so little depth to his personal history, he inevitably remains a superficial character. Once installed in an upmarket apartment block in Gurgaon, however, Adiga is clearly on more familiar ground, and in fact the portrayal of Balram's employer Ashok, seen through his driver's eyes, is much more complex and credible. America-returned Ashok is attached to his self-image as more liberal and caring than his feudal father and brother, expressing concern over Balram's cockroach-infested living quarters and appreciating his (mostly faked) religiosity. Many of Adiga's readers, particularly NRIs, might recognise something of themselves in this – as where he demands '"Take me to the kind of place you go to eat, Balram" "Sir?" "I'm sick of the food I eat, Balram. I'm sick of the life I lead. We rich people, we've lost our way, Balram…" I ordered okra, cauliflower, radish, spinach, and *dhal*. Enough to feed a whole family, or one rich man. He ate and burped and ate some more. "This food is fantastic. And just twenty-five rupees! You people eat so well!"' The dispensability of Ashok's principles is brought home when he agrees to his family's scheme to make Balram take the rap after his wife Pinky drunkenly runs over and kills a child on the road. Much of the second half of the book focuses in on the relationship between 'servant' and 'master', a relationship which grows increasingly obsessive on Balram's side. Adiga seems to intend this as a metaphor for the current Indian economic model – and there is much emphasis on the increasing polarisation between rich and poor (which, according to Balram, has rendered all previously existing barriers of caste, community and gender obsolete!). But the India presented in *The White Tiger* has been denuded not only of its vast and varied middle class, but also its working class – people who have to wait for buses are all servants in the houses of the rich - or destitute pavement dwellers; Delhi's call centre workers are all the daughters of the rich. By doing this - and by embodying the poor in Balram - a man apparently without human ties of any kind, inextricably bound to his employer, and only desiring (literally) to become Ashok - Adiga avoids and elides any question of the possibility of challenges to the model itself.[image: the white tiger] In fact, despite the references to economic polarisation, it soon becomes clear that it is not capitalist globalisation, but only the specifically Indian version which Adiga has a problem with. Much is made of Balram's notion of the Rooster Coop – a system where 'a handful of men in this country have trained the remaining 99.9 per cent – as strong, as talented, as intelligent in every way – to exist in perpetual servitude'. That *The White Tiger* is reassuring fare for those who are merely uncomfortable with the idea of Indian competition in global markets is confirmed by the comments of Michael Portillo, head of the Booker Prize judges and erstwhile Conservative minister in the British government, that the book exposes 'the dark side' of India's 'economic miracle' and reviews like that in *Time *Magazine (Adiga's own ex-employer) which was titled somewhat gloatingly 'The Death of the Indian Dream'. And if Adiga's message – that a poor 'entrepreneur' can only make it from rags to riches via murder – might imply at least a healthy cynicism about capitalist 'dreams' in general, even this cynicism turns to sentimentality towards the end of the book, where Balram opines 'The moment you recognise what is beautiful in this world, you stop being a slave…If you taught every poor boy how to paint, that would be the end of the rich in India.' Where Adiga simplifies and translates (both linguistically and conceptually) for a target audience, Amitav Ghosh in *Sea of Poppies *does the opposite: he immerses us in a vast and diverse ocean of overlapping languages, experiences and subjectivities. Yet the attention to details gathered from extensive research, and more importantly the sensitivity, depth and dynamism of Ghosh's writing seems to convey the very texture of the lives he describes. This ensures that the reader identifies effortlessly with a half-dozen central characters, notably Deeti, a young woman widowed by opium addiction in a Bhojpur ravaged by forced poppy cultivation, who is now on the run from her Rajput in-laws, Zachary Reid, an African American ship's carpenter, the son of a freed slave woman who finds himself making his way in a rigidly racialised world by passing as white, Paulette Lambert, the unconventional daughter of a French Jacobin raised in Calcutta and struggling to fit into English colonial high society, and Neel Rattan Halder, an unworldly Bengali aristocrat oblivious to the fact that he is about to lose everything he possesses at the hands of a British opium trader and the colonial judiciary. Set in 1838, *Sea of Poppies*' key motif – which gives its name to the trilogy of which this book is the first part - is the Ibis, a ship until recently used to transport human beings from Africa to work as slaves on European owned cotton and sugar plantations and now, in the wake of the abolition of the slave trade, and under new owner Benjamin Burnham, a corrupt Calcutta based opium trader and evangelist Christian, preparing to transport indentured labourers - 'girmitiyas' - from the plains and hills of eastern India to the plantations of Mauritius instead. As migrants, convicts sentenced to transportation, lascars, guards and officers, the lives of the book's many characters become inextricably intertwined on board the Ibis. The Ibis sets sail from Calcutta on the eve of the First Opium War, in which Britain attacked China to enforce what Ghosh himself has called 'the biggest drug trading operation in the history of the world' in which opium, produced from white poppies grown under conditions of colonial coercion by peasants across eastern India was forced on the people of China by the British in a hugely profitable triangular trade. Through the British characters, Ghosh highlight the tensions and shifts within colonial strategy in this pre-1857 period – the self-righteous triumphalism of Burnham and his associates in justifying the impending war on China in the name of spreading 'civilisation' and Christianity, so reminiscent of the run-up to the invasion of Iraq ('it cannot be denied that there are times when war is not merely just and necessary, but also humane. In China that time has come') is questioned by Captain Chillingworth, the opium-smoking Englishman who is to command the Ibis. Chillingworth favours the approach of preserving 'native' customs – but the reality of what this means becomes all too clear at sea when the upper caste feudal violence of the Subedar in charge of guarding the migrants, Bhyro Singh, is directly sanctioned. While this is quite nuanced, the fact that the British characters are mainly seen through the eyes of Indians, or other 'outsiders' like Zachary and Paulette has predictably attracted the hostility of some British reviewers. Notably, William Dalrymple, the British Empire's current apologist-in-chief, has described the book as reproducing 'a world familiar from Bollywood movies' in which 'the Indian characters are invariably drawn vulnerable and big-hearted, while the English are uniformly unfeeling brutes', before condescendingly dubbing it a 'masterpiece of anti-imperial fiction'. This drew an uncharacteristically sharp response from Ghosh in an interview for * The* *Hindu*: "… every character in my book is deeply flawed...It seems to me that he does not want to recognise what his countrymen once did… You think these slave traders and drug lords were also nice people? It makes you think that his whole project is to sort of whitewash the past." This project is of course not solely Dalrymple's, but has become increasingly dominant with advocates from Gordon Brown to Manmohan Singh enthusiastically espousing the rehabilitation of the British imperialism of the past even while consolidating the contemporary American-led version. *Sea of Poppies* counters this project with passion, humour and meticulous research, and conveys how lives were shaped not only by the racism and cruelty of the British colonial enterprise but the globalised economic processes of capital accumulation which it developed and sustained. [image: sea of poppies] In fact, the novel navigates not only specifically British colonialism but all the currents and counter-currents of mid-19th century globalisation. 'The tide was beginning to sweep in, and the Hooghly had filled with sails, as ships and boats hurried to take their berths or to stand out to mid-channel. From where he lay, on the slats of his gently rocking dinghy, Jodu could imagine that the world had turned itself upside down, so that the river had become the sky, crowded with banks of cloud; if you narrowed your eyes, you might almost think that the ships' masts and spars were bolts of lightning, forking through the billowing sails….Looking across the river Jodu could count the flags of a dozen kingdoms and countries: Genoa, the Two Sicilies, France, Prussia, Holland, America, Venice. He had learnt to recognise them from Putli…she knew stories about the places from which they came…nurturing his desire to see the roses of Basra and the port of Chin-kalan…' One of its central themes is the transformation of identity within these processes, and the contingency of identity itself. On board the Ibis, almost everyone is in the process of becoming someone else – out of choice or compulsion. Deeti must abandon her caste identity and embrace that of Kalua, the dalit cart-driver whose life is intertwined with hers and who becomes her husband; the Bengali speaking Paulette poses as a Brahmin's daughter in order to gain a place on the ship; Jodu, the young Bengali Muslim boatman who shared Paulette's childhood, is also on board, yearning to become a fully-fledged lascar; Zachary must continue to go along with the assumptions that he is a white man even when the analogies between the treatment of the indentured migrants and the slavery his mother was born into become impossible to escape; Neel has been turned into a convict with his crime tattooed on his forehead: hearing the Bhojpuri songs of the migrants in the quarters adjoining his cell, as the ship is about to enter the open sea, he suddenly remembers the language he learnt as a small child from the retainer who cared for him. 'Slowly, as the women's voices grew in strength and confidence, the men forgot their quarrels: at home too, during village weddings, it was always the women who sang when the bride was torn from her parents' embrace – it was as if they were acknowledging, through their silence, that they, as men, had no words to describe the pain of the child who is exiled from home. *Kaisé katé ab* *Birahá ki ratiyã?* *(How will it pass* *This night of parting?')* At the same time, the novel's portrayal of feudal patriarchal abuse and violence through the experiences of Deeti and Kalua both in Bhojpur and on board the Ibis is chillingly familiar from much more recent events, reminding us that as significant as the transformative impacts of global capitalism are the pre-existing power relations that it sustains and incorporates. Sea of Poppies conveys the meaning of both these processes in a way which has inescapable contemporary resonance. Perhaps most memorable of all is the emergence of new forms of collective consciousness and new possibilities: 'But aren't you afraid, she said, of losing caste? Of crossing the Black Water, and being on a ship with so many sorts of people? Not at all, the girl replied, in a tone of unalloyed certainty. On a boat of pilgrims, no-one can lose caste and everyone is the same…From now on, and forever afterwards, we will all be ship-siblings – *jaházbhais* and * jaházbahens* – to each other. There'll be no differences between us. This answer was so daring, so ingenious, as fairly to rob the women of their breath. Not in a lifetime of thinking, Deeti knew, would she have stumbled on an answer so complete, so satisfactory, and so thrilling in its possibilities. In the glow of the moment, she did something she would never have done otherwise: she reached out to take the stranger's hand in her own. Instantly, in emulation of her gesture, every other woman reached out too, to share in this communion of touch.' -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From swakkhyar at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 09:53:11 2009 From: swakkhyar at gmail.com (swakkhyar deka) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:53:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: SUSPECT:-old baby raped...pls read and sign In-Reply-To: References: <87a82c340901012056g660f5013id7a3413d148b8f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99ca36500901042023u180adbbcpd2fd3d501c9ad5e3@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Suchira Nandi Purkayastha Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:57 PM Subject: Fwd: SUSPECT:-old baby raped...pls read and sign To: prantick majumder , prantick majumder < prantick_majumder at yahoo.co.in>, pallavi_assam , payel chakrabarti , uttam pegu , priyadarshinee nath , peroshj at gmail.com, elora baruah , egocentricme at mail.com, sandipan sengupta , sraboni kar , chanda singh , SAGNIK CHAKRAVARTTY < sagnik.chakravartty at gmail.com>, SABAH AL-AHMED < sabahalahmed23 at rediffmail.com>, sapan borah , sharma siva , Laxmi Saikia , shamik chakraborty , Sudarshan Borpatragohain < sudarshan.borpatragohain at gmail.com>, "swakkhyar ...shitting high in transit" , suranjeeta hasnu , Samarjeet Borah , stuti goswami , "sandipabiswas at gmail.com" , tandrali das < tandrali.das15 at gmail.com>, taraknath das , barnali biswas , bhubanb chetia , blissmedha , jubi borkakoti , jayeeta - duttaroy , dipul ramchiary < dipul.ramchiary at gmail.com>, dhirmandeep , Nandini Dutta , jetendra roy , ratnadeep choudhury , joby cherian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: dorodi Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM Subject: Fwd: SUSPECT:-old baby raped...pls read and sign To: ankita s , anurodh agrawal , Bhargav Phukan , Taking a break 4m orkut < farhana.th at gmail.com>, amby gautam , aneesharanjan at gmail.com, Pankaj Baruah , Suchira Nandi Purkayastha , nabinsarmah at gmail.com, prantick majumder , s , parik21 at yahoo.co.in, parineeta81 at gmail.com, Kalpita Pandit < kalpita.haz at gmail.com>, madhurjyalahkar at gmail.com, bidisha singha < bidisha.singha at gmail.com>, Laxmi Saikia , Dimpy Kalita , sanjit gupta , simantik dowerah , sachin gogoi < gagesmax at yahoo.co.in> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: arie aru Date: Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM Subject: Fwd: SUSPECT:-old baby raped...pls read and sign To: amby gautam , amitjee at gmail.com, amnamirza2002 at yahoo.com, Angela Singh , Nilakshi Barooah , "rolimehrotra1112 at gmail.com" , sravasti datta , divyachandhok83 at gmail.com, dorodi.sharma at gmail.com ast week a 3 year old girl in South Africa was beaten and raped . She is still alive. The man responsible was released on bail yesterday. He is walking the streets . If you are too busy to read this then just sign your name and forward this on. This is a very important petition. It is an essential part of the justice system for children. You may have already heard that there's a myth in South Africa that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS . The younger the virgin, the more potent the cure. This has led to an epidemic of rapes by infected males, with the correspondent infection of innocent kids. Many have died in these cruel rapes. Recently in Cape Town , a 9-month-old baby was raped by 6 men . Please think about that for a moment. The child abuse situation is now reaching catastrophic proportions and if we don't do something, then who will? Kindly add your name to the bottom of the list and please pass this on to as many people as you know. If you are signature no.: 1000 - please forward the mail-list to childprotectpca at saps.org.za Please don't be complacent, do something about the kids of South Africa .. You can make a difference. That child is fighting for life. This is just 1 of the million cases of child abuse, so please pledge your support and help keep CPU (CHILD PROTECTION UNIT) open. Please give your support to the petition and ensure that it goes to as many people as possible. Please don't just leave it, make a difference . In order to write your name copy this message and paste it in a new mail (compose). Or click on forward and add your name to the list and send it on to others. Again, if you are number 1000 please send this to:childprotectpca at saps.org.za 01 - Jackson Kennedy ( Australia ) 02 - Eugenie Knight Draper ( Australia ) 03 - George Spiteri ( Australia ) 04 - Susie Dureau ( Australia ) 05 - Tim McCarthy ( Australia ) 06 - Megan Gleeson ( Australia ) 07 - Susie Gleeson Byrne ( China ) 08 - Fiona Darrigan( China ) 09 - Elizabeth Hyland ( Dubai UAE) 10 - Margaret Winstanley ( Australia ) 11 - Kate Williams ( Hong Kong ) 12 - Shari Boyanton( England ) 13 - ayelet shariv ( Israel ) 14 - Inbar Goren ( Israel ) 15 - Dafna Gal ( Israel ) 16 - Ruth Moushinsky( Israel ) 17 - Aviv Moneta ( Israel ) 18 - Becky leinwand ( Israel ) 19 - Frances Derhy ( Israel ) 20 - Merav Hernando ( Israel ) 21 - talia Schneider ( Israel ) 22 - Sharon Aviv ( Israel ) 23 - Liora Engler ( Australia ) 24 - Abigail Fry ( England ) 25 - Robyn Elmslie ( Australia ) 26 - Stephanie Fuller ( Hong Kong ) 27 - Tanya Burrows( Australia ) 28 - Martha E Morrison ( Australia ) 29 - Gordon Pears (NSW Australia ) 30 - Patricia Pears (NSW Australia 31 - Bette Bishop(NSW Australia ) 32 - Vaeda van Lieshout ( Victoria , Australia ) 33 - Zac Oldfield ( Vic , Australia ) 34 - Julie Woodberry ( Vic , Australia ) 35 - Patrick Rigby ( Vic , Australia ) 36 - Joshua Rigby ( Vic , Australia ) 37 - lesa woodberry( vic.aus) 38 - Tania Pantalleresco ( Vic , Australia ) 39 - Abbi Fendyk ( Australia ) 40 - Angela Lancerotto ( Australia ) 41 - Nicole Grech ( Australia ) 42 - Rochelle Many ( Australia ) 43 - Melissa de Leo ( Australia ) 44 - Shereen Santiago ( Australia ) 45 - Lisa Vella ( Australia ) 46 - Simon Smithson 47 - Renay D'Amico ( Australia ) 48 - John Green ( London , UK 49 - Sandra Powell ( London UK ) 50 - Charlene Jones ( Perth , Australia ) 51 - Helen Stathakis ( Perth , Australia ) 52 - Anna Rogers ( Perth , Australia ) 53 - Helen Barwick ( Perth , Australia ) 54 - kerry summerton [ Adelaide Australia ] 55 - Kadina Gregory ( South Australia ) 56 - Fillmore Family ( South Australia ) 57 - E Stiesch ( South Australia ) 58 - K Craig ( Australia ) 59 - E Cleveland ( Victoria , Australia ) 60 - S Flanagan ( Australia ) 61- M.Gliddon( Australia ) 62 - J Gliddon ( Australia ) 63 - R Maher (Australia ) 64 - L Morrison ( Australia ) 65 - P Woods ( Australia ) 66-C Morrison Australia ) 67 - S Morrison ( Australia ) 68 - J Morrison (Australia ) 69 - R Woods ( Australia ) 70 - T Draper ( Australia 71 -L Gentle ( Australia ) 72 - Campton ( Australia ) 73 - J Beale (Australia ) 74 - L Malamoo-Jib ( Australia ) 75 - R.Backo ( Australia ) 76 â?'Raymond D. BLANCO ( AUSTRALIA ) 77 - B.Toby ( Australia ) 78 - Annie Webster (Australia ) 79 - Maz Clarke ( Australia ) 80 - Jenny Cooper(Australia 81 - russell Cooper( Australia ) 82 - Ben CooperAustralia) 83 â?' Lauren Smith ( Australia ) 84 - Tess Hynes ( Australia ) 85 - Casey Symonds (Australia ) 86 - Claudia Beinhoff ( United Kingdom ) 87 - Kerry Weddell (South Africa ) 88 - Daina Dyball ( Australia ) 89 - Christen Allen (Australia ) 90 - Alira Hayward ( Australia ) 91 - Lenore Hayward (Australia ) 92 - Jordan Toomey ( Australia ) 93 - Kayt Howe ( Australia) 94 - Kerstin Thuresson ( Australia ) 95 - Marie Tatters 97 - John Ross Australia ) 98 - Susan Ross ( Australia ) 99 - Gloria Grant Australia) 100 - Grant ( Australia ) 101 - Vicki Remington Australia ) 102 - Melanie Close ( Australia ) 103 - Lyn Shepherd ( Australia ) 104 - Judith Cassells ( Australia ) 105 - Isabel Boura ( Australia ) 106 - Ester Pereira ( South Africa ) 107 - Helder Pereira ( South Africa ) 108 - Antolia Mabokela ( South Africa ) 109 - Ed Viana ( South Africa ) 110 - Carlos Bello ( Maputo Mozambique ) 111 - Joao Ruas (Maputo-Mozambique) 112 - Sara Americano (Maputo-Mozambique) 113 - S?f³nia Timana (Maputo-Mozambique) 114 - Eugenia Comissal (Maputo-Mozambique) 115 - David Nhancume (Maputo-Mozambique) 116 - Maria Ant?f³nia Barros ( Maputo - Mozambique ) 117 - Francisca Ibrahimo Da Silva ( Maputo - Mo?f§ambique) 118-Millie Whitehead ( Maputo ) 119 - Renï¢??EBooysen 120 - SonjamVenter ( Mozambique , Maputo ) 121 - Nahida Karimo ( Maputo ) 122 - L Pereira ( Mozambique ) 123 - Guambe, ( Maputo ) 124 - Costa, Liliana ( Maputo , Mozambique ) 125 - Guimar?f£es, Helu?a Maputo , Mozambique ) 126 - Em?ia Tembe ( Maputo Mo ?f§ambique) 127 - RAUL ALMEIDA - Maputo 128 - Latif, Abubacar A. - Maputo/Mozambique 129 - Teresa Ferr?f£o - Mozambique 130 - Rosa Maria 131 - Nhancolo, Odete( Maputo , Mozambique ) 132 - Estev?f£o Chumaio 133 - GAWANA MBAZIMA(MAPUTO-MOZAMBIQUE) 134 - Pioris, Te?f³filo(Maputo-Mozambique) 134 - Inocencia M.F.C.Cantengo(Maputo-Mozambique) 135 - Ubisse,I(Maputo-Mozambique) 136 - SALOMAO MUIANGA ( MAPUTO CITY ) 137 - [SANDRA ELIZABETE MACARINGUE MAPUTO/MOZAMBIQUE] 138 - OTILIA ROGERIO BEMBELE - MAPUTO / MO?f???AMBIQUE 139 - Bernardo -MAPUTO/MO?f???AMBIQUE 140 - Leonor Sheila Pene'wuda'(Mpto-Mocambique) 141 - FATIMA MAPUTO-MOZAMBIQUE) 142 - Samuel Uamusse ( Maputo , Mozambique ) 143 - Sandra Caniat Karimo ( Maputo , Mozambique ) 144 - Lutfe Karimo ( Maputo , Mozambique ) 145 - Kayla Caniat Karimo ( Maputo , Mozambique ) 146 - Kyandra Caniat Karimo ( Maputo , Mozambique ) - Monica Vasconcelos Roberts 148 - Eric Vasconcelos Roberts 149 - Andre Vasconcelos Roberts 150 - M?f¡rio Filipe Guimar?f£es ( Brazil ) 151 - Claudia Ferreira ( Brazil ) 152 - Deborah Cunha ( Brazil ) 153 - Acyr Luz ( Brazil ) 154 - Maria Eduarda Guimar?f£es ( Brazil ) 155 - Leandro Quadros ( Brazil ) 156 - Priscila da Luz Guimar?f£es( Brazil ) 157 - ï¢??ESarah Issï¢??E( Maputo - Mo?f§ambique) 158 - ï¢??EPaulo Cam?fµes (Maputo-Mo?f§ambique) 159 - ï¢??EMaria Teresa Cam?fµes (Maputo-Mo?f§ambique) 160 - ï¢??EJosï¢??ECam?fµes ( Maputo - Mo?f§ambique) 161 - ï¢EDalila Nordine Maputo-Mo?f§ambique) 162 - ï¢??EEus?fÂÂ(c)bio Abdulla(Chimoio-Mo?f§ambique) 163 - Tina NYOMBO ( Angola - Luanda ) 164 - Bern ?ia da Flora NYOMBO (Angola-Luanda) 165 - Vanda Soares ( Luanda - Angola ) 167 - Andreza Vasconcelos (Luanda-Angola) 168 - ?f'ngela Chagas ( Luanda - Angola ) 169 - Fernanda IZATA ( Luanda - Angola ) 170 - Malvina Teixeira(NY-USA) 171 - ï¢??EANTONIO IZATA ( Luanda - Angola ) 172 - Ulisses da Cruz Luanda - Angola ) 173 - Josï¢??EAlexandre de Oliveira ( Belgium ) 174 - Beto Figueiredo ( U.K. ) 175 - ï¢??EMANUEL LEMOS DA SILVA LUANDA-ANGOLA) 176 - ï¢??EZulmira Gon?f§alves (Benguela-Angola) 177 - Rayssa Peairo ( Angola ) 178 - ï¢??EEM?f??LIO SILVEIRA F. MESQUITA (BENGUELA??EANGOLA) 179 - ï¢??EMathias Louren?f§o ( Luanda ï¢??EANGOLA) 180 - ï¢??ECarlos Cepeda ( Luanda Angola ) 181 - ï¢??EN?f¡dia Cruz ( Luanda ï¢??EAngola) 182 - ï¢??ETidiane Nahary ( Luandaï¢??EAngola 183 - ï¢??EVanessa Jackson( USA ) 184 - Walter Afonso ( Luanda Angola ) 185 - Paulo Maria Francisco ( In Luanda , Republic of Angola 186 - ï¢??ELopes do Nascimento (In Benfica-Luanda, Republicm of Angola ) 187 - Tony Domingos (in Viana-Luanda, Republic of Angola ) 188 - ï¢??ECruz Junior ( Luanda ï¢??EAngola) 189 - ï¢??ERuth Saraiva (Luanda ï¢??EAngola) 190 - Sandra Louro( Luanda - Angola ) 191 - Luciano Fonseca ( Praia Cape Verde ) 192 - Nezi Brito ( Hanson - USA ) 193 - Carlos Brito(Oslo-Nooruega) 194 - Maia Brito(Oslo-Noruega) 195 - Esma Alissi(Oslo-Norway). 196 - Shayma Alissi (Surrey-UK) 197 - Ane Haugen(Surrey-Uk) 198 - Anders Solvang (Sydney- Australia) 199 - Marte Lajord Fr?f¸seth (Tromsï¢?? E Norway ) 200 - Siren,Stefanussen ( Drammen- Norway ) 201 - Kaia Kristine Pettersen ( drammen- Norway ) 202 - Ranveig Menes Andersen (Drammen-Norway) 203 - Lene Menes Alm(Drammen-Norway) 204 - Britt Hasselberg ( Drammen - Norway ) 205 - Tone Monsen ( Oslo - Norway ) 206 - Vanessa Borgli ( Oslo- Norway ) 207 - Eva Christin Laszka(Oslo-Norway 208 - Tom Brodal Bjerke ( Oslo ï¢??ENorway) 209 - Rita Laska-Marosi(Budapest-Hungary) 210 - SharonJohnsen(Kuala Lumpur-Malaysia) 211 - Tore Johnsen(Oslo-Norway) 212 - Chrystina Tan Teck Lian ( Kuala Lumpur ) 213 - Fong Oy Leng( Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia ) 214 - Helene Fong ( Kuala Lumpur ?- Malaysia ) 215 - Angie Ang ( Singapore ) 216 - Francis Chua ( Singapore ) 217 - Sim Claire ( Singapore 218 - Jacky Wong ( Singapore ) 219 - Giselia Lim ( Singapore ) 220 - Garry Lim ( Singapore ) 221 - Nana Wang ( Singapore ) 222 - Arwati ( Singapore ) 223 - Mahadir ( Singapore ) 224 - Rukiah ( Singapore ) 225 - Alip ( Singapore ) 226 - Arianah ( Singapore ) 227 - Azlindah ( Singapore ) 228 - Fazilrudin ( Singapore ) 229 - Azar ( Singapore ) 230 - Yen Ling ( Malaysia ) 231 - Carine ( Malaysia ) 232 - Kam Lok Kun ( Malaysia ) 233 - Tee Siok Chew ( Malaysia ) 234 - Selina Josephine Matupang ( Singapore ) 235 - Shallynn Teoh ( Malaysia ) 236 - Sivakumaran ( Malaysia ) 237 - Jeslyn Teo ( Singapore ) 238 - Jessica Ang( Singapore ) 239 - Lina Tan ( Singapore ) 240 - Chee Keat ( Singapore ) 241 - Tabitha ( Singapore ) 242 - Puiwan ( Singapore ) 243 - Siew Cheng ( Malaysia ) 244 - Choi Har ( Malaysia ) 245 - Tommy Hoe ( Malaysia ) 246 - SohCheng Lim ( Singapore ) 247 - Lim Hwi Eng ( Singapore ) 248 - Lim Lay Ngoh ( Singapore ) 249 - Chok Leng ( Singapore ) 250 - CS See ( Singapore ) 251 - YT Toh ( Singapore ) 252 - Clarence Fernandez ( Canada ) 253 - Asha T ( Australia ) 254 - Karina Isdahl ( Canada ) 255 - Jacqueline Ostick ( Canada ) 256 - Eli Wick ( Canada ) 257 - Katherine Storrie ( Canada ) 258 - Jamie Borock ( Canada ) 259 - Jamie Stadelmann ( canada ) 260 - Chandra Henkel ( Canada ) 261 - Sarah Henkel( Canada ) 262 - Katy bast ( Canada ) 263 - Ashley Szederkenyi( Canada ) 264 - Cameo Kerr( canada ) 265 - Serena Bining ( Canada !) 266 - Harjot Gill ( canada !!) 267 - Harmeet Mann( Canada :D)-- Please sign this is sooooo cruell-.- 268 - nARBIR MATHARU ( CANADA ) 269 - Kajal Parmar ( Canada :D) 270 - ARSHDEEP BASI:D( CANADA ) 271 - E.AKizuki( Canada ) 272 - Vineeta ( Canada ) 273 - PRIYANKA KUAMR ( NEW ZEALAND 274 - Kajal Chandra 275 - courtney smith 276 - miki lambert 277 - maddie 278 - Courtney ( Victoria , Australia ) 279 - shira shery( Israel ) 280- Carisse( Melbourne , Australia ) 281-Joana F ( Melbourne ,Australia ) 282- Dani M ( Melbourne , Australia ) 283- Arlene M ( Melb , Australia ) 284-Rhonda Shuter ( Toronto , Canada ) 285-Samara Shuter ( Toronto, Canada ) 286-Shannon Kook-Chun ( Toronto-Montreal , Canada 287-Millie Marshall ( London ) 288-Simon Marshall ( > >>Vancouver Canada ) 289-Emily Doyle-Yamaguchi ( Vancouver , Canada ) 290 -Garett Jansen ( Vancouver , Canada 291 - Michele Lougheed ( Vancouver , Canada ) 292 - Diane Divall ( Vancouver , Canada ) 293 - P. Grandinetti ( Vancouver , Canada ) 294 - L. Grandinetti ( Vancouver , Canada ) 295 - C. Bowes ( Vancouver , Canada ) 296 - S. Rae ( New Westminster , BC , Canada ) 297 - Christine Heidt ( Edmonton , AB , Canada ) 298 - Jeannine chenier( edmonton ,ab, canada ) 299 - Lynda Cyr ( Edmonton , AB , Canada ) 300 - Tracey Turcott 301 - Kerry Cyr 302 - Linda Turcott ( Abbotsford , BC Canada ) 303 - Corie Robinson ( Chilliwack , BC Canada ) 304 - Wendy Robinson ( Chilliwack , B.C. Canada ) 305 - Dora Zwart ( Chilliwack , B.C. Canada ) 306 - Leona Rodrique ( Chilliwack , BC Canada ) 307 - Sarah Hernandez ( Montreal , Canada ) 308 - Andrewlina Hernandez ( Kota Kinabalu , Malaysia ) 309 - Hartini Hashim ( Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia ) 310 Emily Claricev Joannes ( Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia ) 311 - Ann Marian Ronald ( Malaysia ) 312) Milani Stephen ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 313) Andrias Anthony ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 314) Marion Maeve Michael ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 315) Mandy Mae Michael ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 316) Judith Molly ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 317) Stanise Ansanit ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 318) Noor Aini Razi ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 319) Marjorie Poigi ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 320) Esalilawati Aliamat ( Sabah Malaysia ) 321) Rujiah Jumin ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 322) Emmawati Azaini ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 323) Ezam @ Reyno Bin Osman ( W.P Labuan , Malaysia ) 324) Dayang Haniza Hamidon ( Malaysia ) 325) Issac John Charles ( Malaysia ) 326) Baby Ngu (W.P Labuan , Malaysia ) 327) Christina Joseph ( W.P. Labuan , Malaysia ) 328) Sandra Cathie Edward ( Labuan , Malaysia ) 328) Wilson Koh ( Labuan , Malaysia ) 329) Davie M. Doughty ( Alabama , USA ) 330) Jamnah Taim 331) ADRIAN BIN ZAINI( LABUAN , MALAYSIA ) 332) ROWENA BTE MD SALLEH( LABUAN , MALAYSIA ) 333) Saiful Bahri Hussain (Miri/Sarawak/Malaysia) 334) CHARLES BORROMEO MADILIOUS 335) PETRE Y L LEE (WP LABUAN MALAYSIA ) 336) Hj. Ibrahim Tara 337) Buntat Ibrahim 338) Azizi Irwandy Yaacob (WPKL MALAYSIA ) 339) Azriel Aswad (Perak Malaysia ) 340) Thinagaran (Sri Manjung Perak Malaysia ) 341) Azlan Pakiri (Kampung Deralik Perak , Malaysia ) 342) Suzana ( Perak , Malaysia ) 343) Prakash (Manjung, Perak , Malaysia ) 344) Alan 'D' Guna ( Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia ) 355) Joan Augustine ( Malaysia ) 366) Mega ( Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia ) 367) KOMMAL A ( KUALA LUMPUR , MALAYSIA ) 368) Hema ( Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia ) 369) Egan ( Penang , Malaysia ) 370) A.Nizam Shah ( Kuala Lumpur , MALAYSIA ) 371) Nazima Kassm ( Kuala Lumpur .. Malaysia ) 372) Maheswaran Kovilan ( KL, Malaysia ) 373) Jay Arunasalam ( Kl , Malaysia ) 374) Enba Deva ( KL, Malaysia ) 375) Devamanokaran Poonagasu( Malaysia ) 376) Nalinee Narayanan ( Malaysia ) 377) Narayanan ( Malaysia ) 378) Letchumey ( Malaysia ) 379) Premila ( Ipoh , Malaysia ) 380) Ganes Narayanan ( Kulim , Malaysia ) 381) Janarthini Menon ( Malaysia ) 382) ahmad Daud ( Malaysia ) 383) James Sebastian ( Malaysia ) 384) Patricia Joseph ( Malaysia ) 385 Danny Wong ( Malaysia ) 386 Andy Choo ( Malaysia ) 387 Angie Gow ( Malaysia ) 388 Noor Syahida Nawawi ( Malaysia ) 389 Barbara Samy ( Malaysia ) 390 Sunita Pandita ( Malaysia ) 391 Jayasutha Raman ( Malaysia ) 392 Jayamalar Raman ( Malaysia ) 393 Ahmootha Ramachandran ( Malaysia ) 394 Vimala Ramachandra 395 Sheila K Nalliah 396 F.Peter ( Sabah , Malaysia ) 397 Farida Ibrahim ( Malaysia ) 398 Badri Ibrahim ( Malaysia ) 399 Anna Matthew ( Malaysia ) 400 Angela Sam ( Malaysia ) 401 Martha Joseph ( Malaysia ) 402 Ann Maria ( Malaysia ) 403 Miranda ( Malaysia ) 404 Sanjiyah Shauun( Malaysia ) 405 Kavineesh Gopal ( Malaysia ) 406 Yaitheisha Gopal ( Malaysia ) 407 Jaydalynn Ann ( Malaysia ) 408 Rosie Michael 409 Melinda Michael 410 Michael Rajoo 411 Elvin Tony 412 Ann Magdalene Elvin 413 Stephen Lee ( Malaysia ) 414 Sunitha K ( Malaysia ) 415 Kanjana M ( Ireland ) 416 - Regu Bhaskaradass ( Malaysia ) 417. Sreekumar Menon ( Malaysia ) 418. Peter Jesudoss ( Malaysia ) 419. Prima Jesudoss ( Malaysia ) 420. Kadam 421. Esan 422. Julian Jansen ( Malaysia ) 423. Alison Francis 424. Low Li-Sa 425. Gwyneth Lim 426. James Ding ( Malaysia ) 427. Lena Chong ( Singapore ) 428. Nitya Daryanani ( Singapore ) 429. Dia Dadlani ( Nigeria ) 430. Amreeta Buxani ( UK ) 431. Anupa Panjabi ( UK ) 432. Anand Panjabi ( UK ) 433. R Malkani ( USA ) 434. Vicky Punjabi ( INDIA ) 435. Parul Katyal ( India ) 436. Disha Goel [ INDIA ] 437. Sahil Bagga ( INDIA ) 438. Andre Tully 439. Pooja ( India ) 440. Pradeep Menon [ India ] 441. Shree Prakash ( India ) 442. Abhijit Kundu ( India ) 444.M.R.K.Karthy( India ) 445. Nagarajan C T ( India ) 446. Bhuvana ( India ) 447. Lakshmi Priya ( India ) 448.Ditty mary Joy( India ) 449.Suma Shivappa( India ) 450. Lekha ( India ) 451. Sumana( India ) 452. Ashwini( India ) 453.Aparna ( India ) 454.Chitra ( India ) 455. Sneha( India ) 456. Padmashree ( India ) 457. Divya A L ( India ) 458. Divya S R( India ) 459.Navneet Malhotra ( India ) 460.Aparna V( India ) 461.Kirti Prakash Pandey( India ) 462.Raj Goutham( India ) 463. RadhiKa ( India ) 464.S.Sasi Rekha( India ) 465.Nithiya.P( India ) 466)Gunasakthy.T( India ) 467)Saravanan.( India ) 468. Sonia Manivannan ( INDIA ) 469. Priya.M ( INDIA ) 470. Smitha Palan ( INDIA ) 471.Babita Amin( INDIA ) 472. Neeta Shetty ( INDIA ) 473. Jacintha D. Fernandes ( INDIA ) 474. Jessey Chitra D ( INDIA ) 475 Purnima K C ( India ) 476.Sangeetha Prasath ( Srilanka) 477.Sonali Rupatunge ( Sri Lanka ) 478. Thumesha Jayatilake ( Sri Lanka ) 479. Pavithra Seneviratne( Sri Lanka ) 480 Vinod Jayaweera 481.Dinindu Lathpandura ( Sri Lanka ) 482.Pasindu Lathpandura ( Sri Lanka ) 483.Charmaine Cuttilan ( Sri Lanka ) 484 Marque Ratnayeke ( Sri Lanka ) 485 Suzanne Paul ( Sri Lanka ) 486 Sanjiva Peiris ( Sri Lanka ) 487 Himeshi Fernando ( Sri Lanka ) 488 Surandima Perera ( Sri Lanka ) 489 Aruni Wijerathne ( Sri Lanka ) 490 Chandima Nishani ( Sri Lanka ) 491 wathsala samarakoon ( Sri Lanka ) 492. Dananjaya Rasingolla ( Sri Lanka ) 493. Teng Seer Ping ( Malaysia ) 494. Tang Chun Hsia ( Malaysia ) 495. Merilyn Ng ( Malaysia ) 496 Sheila Ignatius( Malaysia ) 497 Debbie Ignatius ( Malaysia ) 498. Angeline Pasqual ( Malaysia ) 499. Elena Pasqual ( Malaysia ) 500. Jerome Wong ( Malaysia ) 501. Lorraine Pasqual ( Malaysia ) 502. Ng CL ( Malaysia ) 503. Johanna Kee ( Malaysia ) 504 Priscilla ( Malaysia ) 505 Edna Mary Xavier ( Malaysia ) 506 Angie Sia ( Malaysia ) 507. Mary Lim-Lopez( Republic of Macedonia ) 508. Roselind Yap-Stanislaus( Malaysia ) 509. Vivien Caroline ( Malaysia ) 510. Sheteel 511. Ranjit 512. Harleen 513. Hardev 514. Nereena ( Malaysia ) 515. George ( Malaysia ) 516. Netanya ( Malaysia ) 517. Nirmala ( Malaysia ) 518. Lynn Lim ( Malaysia ) 519. Loke ( Malaysia ) 520. Wong Li Li ( Malaysia ) 521. Gary WK Wong (Malaysia) 522. Mei Sha (Malaysia) 523. Laura Yap (Malaysia) 524. Kevin Yap (Malaysia) 525.Chen (Malaysia) 526.Janet (Malaysia) 527.Irene (Malaysia) 528 Lucy Ng ( Malaysia ) 529 Sharon (Malaysia) 530 Karen Chong (Malaysia) 531 Derek Hoh (Malaysia) 532. Fauziah Mohd Kashim (Malaysia) 533. Suhaimy Sulaiman (Malaysia) 534. Fadhilah Syahinda (Malaysia) 535. Faridanial (Malaysia) 536. Farissyaqiel (Malaysia) 537. Faizzikry (Malaysia) 538. Carmen Irene (KL, Malaysia) 539. May Teoh (KL, Malaysia) 540. Venoth (KL, Malaysia) 541. Danny Chan (KL, Malaysia) 542. Nikki Ang (KL, Malaysia) 543. Mr & Mrs Chew Kwok Wing (Malaysia) 544. Chew Yoke Sim (Malaysia) 545. Mary Chew (Malaysia) 546. Fabian Lum (Malaysia) 547. Lum Kok Kiong (Malaysia) 548. Francis Chew (Malaysia) 549. Jeannie Chew (Malaysia) 550. Mindy Chew (Malaysia) 551. AJ (Malaysia) 552. Yieshka Sue-lynn (Malaysia) 553. Ivy Chew (Malaysia) 554. Soo MF (Malaysia) 555. Jason Soo (Malaysia) 556. Joyce Soo (Malaysia) 557. Dr Paul Chan (Malaysia) 558. Corine Chew (Malaysia) 559. Jeffrey Chew (Malaysia) 560. Raymond Chew (Malaysia) 561. Joel Lum SF (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia) 562. Lynette Lee (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia) 563. Elene Chian (Malaysia) 564. Moniza Abu Bakar (Malaysia) 565. Sandhora Aris (Singapore) 566. Nur Amalina Hafidz (Singapore) 567. Haryati Rahim (Singapore) 568. Shanthi Kalimuthu (Singapore) 569. Sukhjit Kaur (Singapore) 570. Baldeva Kaur ( Singapore) - May God have mercy on these 'Sick Heads' . 571. Sokhwant Kaur ( Singapore ) 572. Daljit Singh ( M'sia ) 573. Basir Beran (Malaysia) 574. Rina Farizq (Malaysia) 575. Azi (Johor....Malaysia) 576. Whitebear (Malaysia) 577. Hidayah ( Malaysia ) 578. Zaliena Zakaria (Malaysia) 579. Chew BK (Malaysia) 580. Shaunmus (Malaysia) 581. Vaneetha Kuttan (Malaysia) 582. Azman Husin ( Malaysia ) 583. Saifful Md Salleh (Malaysia) 584. Nur Murni Abd Halim (Malaysia) 585. Patrick Wong (Malaysia) 586. WHThye (Malaysia) 587. Sam MW (Malaysia) 588. Tan SM (Malaysia) 589. Harrison (4 yrs old, Malaysia) 590. Hayley ( 1.5 yrs old, Malaysia) 591. Maureen Wee (Malaysia) 592. JR Wong (Malaysia) 593. Elena Lim (KL, Malaysia) 594. Alvin Liew (KL, Malaysia) 595. Angelia (Ipoh, Malaysia) 596. Nancy Lim (Ipoh, Malaysia) 597. Lam Lai Fun (KL, Malaysia) 598. Soo CF (KL, Malaysia) 599. Jennifer Lam (KL, Malaysia) 600. Steven Tan (KL, Malaysia) 601. Amanda Sim (KL, Malaysia) 602.EdD Chia (KL,Malaysia) 603.Nic.Gan (Malaysia) 604.Michelle Wee (Malaysia) 605.Indrani Muthaiya (Petaling Jaya, Malaysia) 606.Thomas Raj(PJ,Malaysia) 607. Tina LK Lim (Malaysia) 608. Yvonne PL Fong (Malaysia) 609. J. Ong (Malaysia) 610. B.P. Lim (Ma Regards, 611.Vincent Lim9(Malaysia) 612.Patricia Cheah (Australia) 613.SanSan Cole (BSB, Brunei) 614.Susie Allport(NZ) 615. Shinsuke Saikawa (BSB, Brunei) 616. Albert Tan KH (BSB, Brunei) 617. HH Pek (BSB, Brune 618. TRACY SY LEONG (BSB, BRUNEI) 619. Anita S (BSB, Brunei) 620. Mandy Kueh (BSB, Brunei) 621. Mrs Jan (BSB, Brunei) 622. Caroline @ Mrs Lim (BSB, Brunei) 623. Rita ( Mrs Lai Brunei ) 624. Chua608 (Brunei) 625. Manis (Brunei) 626. Mawar (Brunei) 627. HMHE101 (Brunei) 628.Fazerana Marzuki (Brunei) 629. Erdina Amdan (Brunei) 630. Hamidah Mokhtar (Brunei) 631.Zarifah Mokhtar (Brunei) 632.Sofian Kipli (Brunei) 633.Suffian Bin Mohamed ( Jabatan Daerah Belait , Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 634.Sarimah Bte Abdullah ( Kampung Rampayoh , Mukim Labi , Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 635.Nuraleeya Farhana Bte Suffian (Kampung Mumong Kuala Belait,Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 636.Murdani Bin Hj.Zakaria ( Ravenguard Security Services,Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 637.Shaharurizam bin Mohamad ( Royal Brunei Air Forces , Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 638.Lt.Col.Hj.Dzulkifli Bin Hj.Abu Bakar ( Royal Brunei Airlines,Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 639.Major.Attaman Bin Amat ( Royal Brunei Armed Forces,Negara Brunei Darussalam) 640.Ellaspalma Bin Bajau ( Brunei Shell Petroleum,Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 641.Yusni Bin Hj.Ja`afar ( Belait District Office,Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 642.Shah Azaland Bin Mat Said ( Belait District Office , Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 643.Md.Khairul Azmi Bin Hj.Bujang ( Belait District Office Negara Brunei Darussalam ) 644. James Bober (Canada) 645. Monica Bober (Canada) 646. Aline Beaudoin (Canada) 647. Diane Girouard (Canada) 648 Tom Hastie( canada) 649 Vicki Jordan (Australia) 650 Lee Killian (Australia) 651 Anna Campbell (Australia) 652 Lidia Trajkovski (Australia) 653 Phara Harris (Australia) 645. Josephine Smith (Australia ) 645. Jennie Thomas (Australia) 646. Sally demir (Auatralia) 647. Selda K (Australia ) 648. Julin Ertek (Australia ) 649. Liza Eshiaa (Australia ) 650. Lela Ljubisav ( Australia ) 651. Joanne Khoury (Australia ) 652. Natalie Yammine (Australia) 653. Natalie Aslan (Australia) 654. Pamela Aslan (Australia) 655. Sarah Kordahi (Australia) 656. Stephen Zancanaro ( Australia ) 657.Spiro Deligiannis (Australia) 658 Spiro Delidiannis 659. Natalie Boland (Australia) 660. Rachel Miles (NSW Australia) 661. Christina McIvor (NSW Australia) 662. Maree Hitchcox (Sydney, Australia) 663. Carolyn Waldon (NSW Australia) 664. Michael Waldon (NSW Australia) 665Heidi Perry (NSW Australia) 666 David Kohari (NSW Australia) 667 Darrelle Wilkinson (QLD, Austraila) 668 R Wormington Q.L.D 669 A Wormington Q.L.D 670 D Wormington Q.L.D 671 S Wormington Q.L.D 672 K Wormington Q.L.D 673 R G Wormington Q.L.D 674 J S Van Der Vegt QLD 675 S J McMeekin QLD 676 L Diprose QLD 677 Krissy Yarran (Gton, WA) 678..Judith yarran(gton WA) 679 Lyn Csendes (Fremantle WA) 680 Kathy Butler (Mt Barker W.Australia) 681. Muddy Waters (Mt Barker WA ) 682. Jai Wallis - Perth WA 683. Kyla Wallis - Perth WA. ( PLEASE HELP THESE POOR BABIES & LITTLE CHILDREN ) 684. Leesanda Allen - Brisbane qld. 685. Vanessa Allen - Perth, WA 686.Cheree Butler-Perth, WA 687. Charmaine King -Wickham WA 688. Kate Randall ( Dongara, Australia) 689.Anika Dalaney - Coral Bay WA 690.Ali Dalaney - Darwin NT 691. Angela Killick - Geraldton WA 692. Janine Treffone - Geraldton WA - Please help these children 693 Leonie Hicks - Geraldton WA 694. Selina McLennan - Geraldton WA 695. Sheree Kelly - Perth WA 696. Anne.m Stevens - Eaton WA 697. Mel Gardiner - Bunbury WA 698. Melissa Thorp-Eaton WA 699. Travis Thorp-Eaton WA 700. Rae Thorp- Capel WA 701. Lorea Munro - Perth 702 Bev Richards - Perth WA 703 Meriel Newhook - Perth Australia 704 Debbie Sutherland 705 Sue More 706 George Jones 707 Sue Jones 708 Marie Meadon 709 Rita van der Walt 710 - Karen Sebastian (South Africa) 711 Lisa Alves 712 Chanda Prinsloo(South Africa) 713 Olivia Geanballey ( South Africa ) 714 Kershan Pillay 715 Yeshiel Pillay 716 Melissa Pillay 717 Warren Winfred 718. Thiloshen Pillay 719. Devon Stanley 720.Marietjie Stapelberg 721. Lizelle Roets 722. Geraldine Hendriks 723 Marietha Hicks (Pretoria, South Africa) 724 Celeste Ras 725 Riana Beneke 726 MarilÃ(c)y Liebenberg 727 Marizanne Prinsloo (Heidelberg South Africa) 728 Cirene Martinson (Swakopmund, Namibia) 729 Madeleine Deyzel (Nigel, South Africa) 730 Johan Deyzel (Nigel, South Africa) 731 Dalene Deyzel (Nigel, South Africa) 732 Liezl Balfour ( South Africa) 733 Kevin Balfour ( South Africa) Dear all, Some months ago I posted some information about events and webcasts from the Pan African Space Station (PASS) out of Cape Town; in particular I mentioned a concert by the Zulu guitarist, vocalist and songwriter Madala Kunene. I just found out that the entire concert (solo performance by Kunene in complete darkness) is now available for listening and download! See: http://www.panafricanspacestation.org.za/passcast.php?archive_id=28 . Certainly it confirms my sense of Kunene as one of the greatest performers and musicians I have ever seen (heard). Worth listening to with all the lights off. This is part of an ongoing series of uploads at PASS; this is really turning out to be an amazing (and free) music archive. We're also awaiting the upload of the sets by "our own" DJ Spooky (if I may put it that way)-- by all accounts it was very inspiring. Vivek From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 11:17:59 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:47:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Slokas After A Noon Namaaz Message-ID: <54689.37469.qm@web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Slokas After A Noon Namaaz Outlook Magazine | Dec 22, 2008 Muslim children study Sanskrit and Hindu ones read Quran in these UP madrassas NAMRATA JOSHI We arrive at Madrassa Anwarul-Islam Salfia at 12.45 pm, a little before namaaz. As the students gather around the row of taps to wash their hands and feet and line up for prayers, this modest building in the dusty, narrow bylanes of Chauri in Jalalpur, in eastern UP's Jaunpur district, looks exactly how we expect a madrassa to be: a place for rigorous study of Islam, Urdu, Arabic. What we encounter instead is a complete contradiction. The bare, red brick walls of the Standard 7 classroom are yet to be plastered, the window frames still to be fitted. Here, 12-year-old Nadima Bano and Hishamuddin are reciting, their pronunciation perfect and elocution chaste, this ode to India, "Yasyottarasyamdishibhati bhumao Himalayah parvatraj eshah..." It's a sloka in Sanskrit that translated means 'the land shielded by the Himalayas in the north'. "Sanskrit padhne se zubaan saaf ho jaati hai (the diction becomes clear by learning Sanskrit)," Hishamuddin tells us. "Sanskrit is considered the mother of all languages," says their teacher Rabindra Kumar Mishra. "It's ironical that institutions like this madrassa should be nursing it while it's vanishing elsewhere." That it's no exception we have stumbled upon becomes clear to us as we proceed north to Ambedkarnagar district, to Madrassa Azizia Islamia in Kamharia village. The hands of the wall clock might be stuck at 6.45 in this primary school or maktab, but the school itself has progressed in other ways. Space is obviously at a premium Classes 2-5 are being held simultaneously in separate, little rows in a large hall. Sirajuddin is teaching Sanskrit grammar to Class 3. "It was my favourite subject when I was a child," he says with a smile. "Balakah pathati; Sah pathati; Balakau pathatah (A child studies, he studies, they study)...," his student Muhammad Shahid recites for us. They soon move on to another lesson. "Asmakam deshasya asti ateev shobhanah (our country is very beautiful)...". However, this story is not only about Hishamuddins learning Sanskrit. It's also about 13-year-old Ravi Prakash Pandey, a Brahmin and the son of a Sanskrit professor, opting to learn Quran in Class 1. A former student of Azizia Islamia, he can now recite the holy text from memory and has a copy at home that he peruses religiously. "Quran teaches that we must help others and do good deeds and stay away from evil," he says, without batting an eyelid, and then rushes to wash himself and wear a cap before reading it aloud for us. We hear this echo back in Salfia where two Hindu girls 14-year-old Arti Kumari and Anita Kumari are writing about Prophet Mohammed in Urdu on the blackboard "Jab hamare Hazrat ki umr paintees baras ki thi (when our prophet was 35 years old)...". "They face absolutely no problem in writing, reading or understanding Urdu," their teacher Kaiser Jahan informs us. At Madrassa Arbiya Zia-ul-uloom in Mandey in Azamgarh district, sisters Manju and Ranju Kumari have been learning Urdu from Class 1. They mean it when they recite: "Urdu hai jiska naam hamari zubaan hai, duniya ki har zubaan se pyaari zubaan hai (Urdu is the sweetest of the languages in the world)." Passing by Class 1, you can hear Prashant Kumar explaining Urdu numerals to his classmates. The teachers on either side of the linguistic divide find much in common between Sanskrit and Urdu both languages, they say, have an evolved, complex grammar. "Their grammar must be the toughest," says Muhammad Tariq of Madrassa Arbiya. They see this coexistence of Sanskrit and Urdu as normal and not deliberately symbolic in these troubled, divisive times. "How can you associate a language with any religion?" asks Brijesh Kumar Yaduvanshi, a long-time resident of Jaunpur and president, All India University Students' Union."Urdu doesn't belong to Muslims nor does Sanskrit have to do just with Hindus." Nevertheless, the focus on Sanskrit, a language that has long gone out of everyday use, is intriguing. "It's not about helping students get jobs," says Qari Jalaluddin of Salfia, "but about teaching them humanity, about great thoughts and the right way to live, about being able to distinguish right from wrong." Sanskrit is taught at Salfia till Class 9, Urdu is compulsory in Class 1-5, after which it's up to the Hindu students to decide whether they want to study it further. (Photo: Well versed: Ravi Prakash reciting Quran) This easy cohabitation of Sanskrit and Urdu in Jaunpur's madrassas could well be regarded as a legacy of the town's liberal Sufi past. "It was a centre of education in the middle ages," says Yaduvanshi, "has never witnessed a single Hindu-Muslim riot, and has always been a symbol of unity." The Salfia madrassa has, in fact, been built on land bought from a Brahmin family in 1987. The Azamgarh-Mau madrassas too offer a counterview for an area that has of late been made infamous for its alleged association with terrorist activities. "After all, it's the land of Rahul Sankritayan, Maulana Shibli, Firaq Gorakhpuri," says Sanjay Srivastava, professor at the Poorvanchal University. "It's a literary and cultural centre and people here have been feeling humiliated for being targeted for all the wrong reasons." At a time when stereotypes about madrassas, especially those in eastern UP, as breeding grounds for terrorists have been gaining currency and every succeeding terror attack has boxed Indian Muslims further into neat categories as either educated, patriotic liberals or misinformed, misled fundamentalists, these madrassas are a powerful rejoinder, a heartening testimony to the unspoken, uncelebrated, broad-mindedness and inclusiveness of the common, faceless Muslim. The madrassas we visit have a sizeable number of Hindu students. Salfia currently has 475 students, of whom about 225 almost 45 per cent are Hindus. In Azizia Islamia, 35 of the 143 students are Hindus. The newly set up Madrassa Faizul Quran operates out of a small makeshift building in an obscure corner of Amari village in Azamgarh district. The maktab has 100 kids, of whom 20 are Hindus. At Arbiya, 22 of the 374 students are Hindus. There is little to distinguish students. You know Vinky and Reena Yadav from Soni and Rehana Banu only by their names or in the way they wear their head scarves. "We don't believe in bhed bhav," says Salfia's Jalaluddin. "Tameez and tehzeeb are the same in every religion." And though the madrassas do teach hifz, or memorisation of the Quran, all have a progressive vision too. "You can't move forward with religious education alone, our students need to be taught everything: science, geography, maths, English," says Salfia principal Muhammad Saikat. It is the only school in the village which offers high school education for girls, or else they'd have to walk 10 km to the next school. The aim now is to start computers and electronics classes. Like many others, these madrassas are yet to get government aid. There is no midday meal scheme, nor are students given free uniforms; it is all provided by the madrassa management boards. Azizia and Arbiya give students free books and charge no fee. In Salfia the fee's just Rs 5. Faizul Quran charges Rs 40 but only 10 per cent of the students pay up. The teachers themselves get no regular pay from the government but survive on the grants patrons give to the madrassas, the salary averaging from Rs 800-1,500. In contrast, teachers on the government payroll get a princely sum of Rs 3,000. Humble and ill-equipped though they are, these madrassas are incredible examples of how Hindus and Muslims live as one than as separate entities in these forgotten hamlets."They represent the Ganga-Jamuni sanskriti of our villages. Why would anyone want to break the sacred thread of this age-old relationship?" asks Srivastava. Why indeed? From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 11:52:33 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:52:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MUSLIMS LEAVING ISLAM -- WORLD IS CHANGING ! Message-ID: <6353c690901042222m2f5281cdl4c860de8dbf751fb@mail.gmail.com> ESCAPE FROM HAMAS === AND ISLAM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td8YdfNoPBk A Fox News Special Report on Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of Hamas founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef, and his decision to abandon his Muslim faith, denounce his father's organization, move to America and become a Christian. Please pray for this courageous young man!! God be with him! Love Aditya Raj Kaul From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 12:31:40 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:31:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] MUSLIMS LEAVING ISLAM -- WORLD IS CHANGING ! In-Reply-To: <6353c690901042222m2f5281cdl4c860de8dbf751fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690901042222m2f5281cdl4c860de8dbf751fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00901042301r50ef1c82peaf35c51cb283704@mail.gmail.com> What courage are we talking about here? Pray tell all of us about it. Hamas founder's son decides to convert, go all the way to America and make money. What's the big deal about this? Why are you associating courage with this personal step? I think you will also associate courage with Ajmal Kasab, then Israeli forces bombing Gaza, Polpot executing millions while Americas invasion of Vietnam. How wisely with your thought-constructions you have defined this Platonic virtue for your own good. An after thought: Is there courage involved in escaping? From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 12:36:51 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:36:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] After Mumbai: Terrorism And Recession Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901042306q26e4c7afw9181e517ed59237e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/12/10/kepel-terrorism-mumbai-markets-face-cx_ll_1210markets21.html Q&A After Mumbai: Terrorism And Recession Lionel Laurent, 12.10.08, 10:06 PM EST Social unrest and violence could be on the menu as the world economy slows. Gilles Kepel The coordinated terrorist attacks in Mumbai in November left nearly 200 people dead and exposed the vulnerability of India's financial capital. Although India is no stranger to terrorism, the scale of the violence and the targets selected for attack--including five-star hotels and a Jewish religious center--cast a shadow over India's image as a vibrant, emerging economic heavyweight. (See "Mumbai Will Rise Again.") And even though the American-led "War On Terror'" may be in its twilight, as the Bush era gives way to the Obama administration, the global economic slump may expose fractures in society and potentially spread violent unrest across the world. Yahoo! BuzzForbes.com asked Middle East expert Gilles Kepel--whose new book, Beyond Terror And Martyrdom, examines the future of relations between Islam and the West--about the attacks on Mumbai and what to expect from the economic crisis. Forbes.com:Who do you think was behind the Mumbai attacks? Gilles Kepel: My feeling is that the attack was performed by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistani group, because it resembled their modus operandi. They do not do suicide bombings because they feel that if they press the button on the suicide belt, they commit a grave sin against Allah's will. For them, Allah is the one who decides when he should take back the life that he has given. And in committing suicide, even if it's for the sake of jihad, a Muslim goes to hell. So in order to be martyred in the region of Kashmir, the terrorists usually come with heavy weaponry and go on a shooting spree and kill as many Hindus as possible, until finally they are killed because they are overcome in numbers. What about the timing of the attack? I believe that there is mounting pressure on the Afghan-Pakistan border against the Taliban and al-Qaida groups, and that predator drones are killing scores of terrorist leaders and operators. [Pakistani president] Asif Ali Zardari is engaging in military action against jihadi militants, which has chagrined a number of people in the [Pakistani intelligence service] ISI who are supporters of the Taliban. By ratcheting up the tension and bringing India into the battlefield, the attackers aimed to turn Pakistan away from the Taliban and focus on tension with India. This would then alleviate pressure on the militants. Is there an economic story behind the Mumbai attacks? Were the terrorists targeting Mumbai's stature as a financial capital? The attacks exposed the weakness of the so-called Indian economic takeoff. India may be a 'BRIC' country, along with Brazil, Russia and China, but the almost double-digit growth in these countries is based on a predicament; that is to say, that most of the population lives in sheer poverty. In India, you have approximately 150-200 million people who live by European standards and 1 billion who live in sheer poverty. Not to say that Muslims are necessarily poor, just as there are poor Hindus also, but this exposes a number of fault-lines behind the Indian miracle. The aim of the attack was mainly political, but the economic dimension is still visible. In China, there are two kinds of Muslims. On the one hand, there are the Chinese Muslims known as the Hui, who are the Chinese who converted to Islam. They do not pose a problem tantamount to the one posed by the Uigurs, who are a Turkic people annexed by China. They, to a large extent like the Tibetans, have a strong national identity issue, which they then clothe with an Islamic garb. But the Uigurs are far away from the prosperous areas of China, they are in the mountains. As far as Russia is concerned, apart from the Muslims who are in Moscow, most of the Muslim population is concentrated in Central Asia or the Caucasus. That led to the insurgency in Chechnya and problems in Dagestan. For the time being, Chechnya's issue has been dealt with through strong, brutal repression. But now the pro-Russian forces are using Islamization as a means to fulfil their power. This resembles what happened in former authoritarian socialist regimes in Egypt and Algeria, when a weak power courted Islam as a means of social control. Meanwhile, in Dubai, and the Emirates, we have not seen a terrorist threat emerge yet. Why is that? Because that would be detrimental to the terrorists' own interests. The Gulf countries have financial establishments, they have booming economies and terrorists need financial services. If they attack Gulf states, it will make it more difficult for them to organize their networks. Not that those states are complacent about it, but it means they are not pointed to as a land of jihad. Do you think there is a connection between terrorism and economic crisis? Mass revolt and mobilization of the population are definitely linked with economic conditions, as we saw in Algeria in the 1980s. Back then, the Algerian state could not buy social peace anymore because it had no oil revenues coming in. But the capacity of terrorist groups to develop is not directly linked to the price of a barrel of oil. But do terrorist groups flourish in times of domestic economic crisis? It helps. But a number of terrorist leaders have no economic problems. Many of the leaders of the Islamist movements are sons of good families. Like [al-Qaida's second-in-command] Ayman al-Zawahiri, who is just an aristocrat, or Osama bin Laden, who is from one of the most wealthy families in Saudi Arabia. What motivates these middle-class rebels? A large number of prominent middle-class terrorists belong to a strand of society that does not have access to power. Power there is confiscated by the ruling dynasties. It's a case of the pious middle class. From do_not_reply at perfspot.com Mon Jan 5 15:32:41 2009 From: do_not_reply at perfspot.com (Syed Mohd Irfan) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:02:41 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Birthday_request?= Message-ID: <93440-2200911510241615@perfspot.com> I'm using a new service to keep track of the birthdays for my friends and family. Please click the link and enter your birthday for me. http://perfspot.com/b.asp?e=reader%2Dlist%40sarai%2Enet Thanks for your help. Syed Mohd Irfan ------------------------------------------------------------ You are receiving this email because Syed Mohd Irfan (sirfirf at yahoo.com) has invited you to join. If you wish to never be contacted by PerfSpot.com again, please click here: http://perfspot.com/u.asp?e=reader%2Dlist%40sarai%2Enet If you have any questions or require assistance please contact our support team: Toll Free (USA): 1-888-311-PERF (311-7373) Direct Dial (International): (1)602-273-3758 Email: support at PerfSpot.com PerfSpot.com | 4800 N. Scottsdale Rd Suite 4500 | Scottsdale, AZ 85251 | USA From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 20:33:35 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:03:35 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] MUSLIMS LEAVING ISLAM -- WORLD IS CHANGING ! References: <6353c690901042222m2f5281cdl4c860de8dbf751fb@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00901042301r50ef1c82peaf35c51cb283704@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3BAC0D5AD062432B92F098150E292A7F@tara> Your last question can generate a great philosophical discussion. I wish someone picks this up for a discussion. Is suicide, for instance, cowardly or courageous. I have heard many contemplating suicide saying "par dar lagta hai" (I am afraid). Mostly that fear is not a spiritual one, but physical. Getting crushed under a train will be very very painful kind. ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" To: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] MUSLIMS LEAVING ISLAM -- WORLD IS CHANGING ! > What courage are we talking about here? Pray tell all of us about it. > Hamas > founder's son decides to convert, go all the way to America and make > money. > What's the big deal about this? Why are you associating courage with this > personal step? I think you will also associate courage with Ajmal Kasab, > then Israeli forces bombing Gaza, Polpot executing millions while Americas > invasion of Vietnam. How wisely with your thought-constructions you have > defined this Platonic virtue for your own good. > > An after thought: Is there courage involved in escaping? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shahzulf at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 20:53:42 2009 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:23:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The News Story on Sindh Tenancy Act Message-ID: <498374.9937.qm@web38804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Law supporting Sindh peasants lies defunct   By By Shahid Shah   KARACHI: According to the Sindh Tenancy Act (STA) 1950, a landlord is required to pay a fine worth Rs500 if found abusing a tenant, but since its inception, this law has never been implemented. “Peasants have no political and social freedom,” lamented Taju Bheel, President Hari Mazdoor Mahaz Sindh, and suggested that hari (farmer) courts be formed to resolve the issue. The STA was an attempt to address issues faced by tenants who are peasants, such as the duration of their residence and their share of agricultural produce. However, according to a draft prepared by the Asian Development Bank, “the Act no longer reflects contemporary circumstances and needs and the level of compliance is low.” One of the issues tenants face today is that landowners take loans worth millions of rupees from banks in tenants’ names. “The government is providing billions of rupees to rescue the rich (shareholders) from the sinking stock exchange,” said a social activist. “Instead, it should come forward to pay back peasants’ loans.” Currently, there is no tribunal in place to deal with matters related to peasants. Moreover, they cannot afford to go to civil courts, where cases can drag on for several years. Under the STA, every tenant must be registered, but according to Zulfiqar Shah, provincial head of South Asia Partnership (SAP), a civil society organisation, this has never happened. In addition, none of the tenants have a permanent address, as they are often forced by their landlords to relocate. “Such displacement affects education,” said Bheel. “These children should be treated equally and provided a quota in universities and colleges.” According to Zulfiqar Shah, Pakistanshould follow India’s example and form an agricultural policy for its farmers. As a mark of protest, tenants residing in Sindh, united under the SAP, have planned a march from Hyderabadto the Sindh Assembly building on March 15. The march is expected to end by the close of month. Sindh is home to over a million peasants, none of whom have access to education or health services. Before the partition of the sub-continent, the STA ensured that peasants in all provinces of Indiawould receive their rights. By contrast, the traditional system allowed the landlord to impose his own rules. Rochi Ram, a lawyer and social activist, explained that in the majority of India, each piece of land was in the hands of three parties; the government, the landowner and the peasant, but just the feudal lord and landowner in Sindh. In 1930, things looked to be changing for the peasants when the Sindh Hari Committee was formed. At the same time, however, the landof Sindhat Sukkur Barrage and JamraoCanalwas distributed among people from Punjab, resulting in widespread protests in Sindh. With the help of the Sindh Hari Committee and the leadership of Comrade Hyder Bux Jatoi and Qadir Khokhar, the peasants succeeded in getting the STA enforced in 1950, which was meant to ensure interaction between the tenant and landowner. According to the STA, all disputes between the peasant and landowner were to be resolved by the Mukhtiarkar, then a first-class magistrate. However, when landowners entered politics and became ministers, the Mukhtiarkar became a servant of the feudal lord. The STA also stated that the tenant had to pay the cost of the plough, but ever since the mode of production switched from ox ploughs to tractors and other machinery, the cost has increased manifold. “They (peasants) were in a better condition before the partition,” said Ram. He believes that the current political system, where the majority of the politicians are from the families of feudal lords, has done nothing for the protection of peasants’ rights. “They have no way of getting justice.”   Source: The News, KarachiSaturday, January 03, 2009 New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 21:07:21 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:07:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wish some Jews lived in Kashmir too In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690901050737t45eae053hdbc58209422b248b@mail.gmail.com> December 30, 2008 Op-Ed Contributor Why Israel Feels Threatened By BENNY MORRIS Li-On, Israel MANY Israelis feel that the walls — and history — are closing in on their 60-year-old state, much as they felt in early June 1967, just before Israel launched the Six-Day War and destroyed the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies in Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. More than 40 years ago, the Egyptians had driven a United Nations peacekeeping force from the Sinai-Israel border, had closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and air traffic and had deployed the equivalent of seven armored and infantry divisions on Israel's doorstep. Egypt had signed a series of military pacts with Syria and Jordan and placed troops in the West Bank. Arab radio stations blared messages about the coming destruction of Israel. Israelis, or rather, Israeli Jews, are beginning to feel much the way their parents did in those apocalyptic days. Israel is a much more powerful and prosperous state today. In 1967 there were only some 2 million Jews in the country — today there are about 5.5 million — and the military did not have nuclear weapons. But the bulk of the population looks to the future with deep foreboding. The foreboding has two general sources and four specific causes. The general problems are simple. First, the Arab and wider Islamic worlds, despite Israeli hopes since 1948 and notwithstanding the peace treaties signed by Egypt and Jordan in 1979 and 1994, have never truly accepted the legitimacy of Israel's creation and continue to oppose its existence. Second, public opinion in the West (and in democracies, governments can't be far behind) is gradually reducing its support for Israel as the West looks askance at the Jewish state's treatment of its Palestinian neighbors and wards. The Holocaust is increasingly becoming a faint and ineffectual memory and the Arab states are increasingly powerful and assertive. More specifically, Israel faces a combination of dire threats. To the east, Iran is frantically advancing its nuclear project, which most Israelis and most of the world's intelligence agencies believe is designed to produce nuclear weapons. This, coupled with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's public threats to destroy Israel — and his denials of the Holocaust and of any homosexuality in Iran, which underscore his irrationality — has Israel's political and military leaders on tenterhooks. To the north, the Lebanese fundamentalist organization Hezbollah, which also vows to destroy Israel and functions as an Iranian proxy, has thoroughly rearmed since its war with Israel in 2006. According to Israeli intelligence estimates, Hezbollah now has an arsenal of 30,000 to 40,000 Russian-made rockets, supplied by Syria and Iran — twice the number it possessed in 2006. Some of the rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Dimona, where Israel's nuclear production facility is located. If there is war between Israel and Iran, Hezbollah can be expected to join in. (It may well join in the renewed Israeli-Palestinian conflict, too.) To the south, Israel faces the Islamist Hamas movement, which controls the Gaza Strip and whose charter promises to destroy Israel and bring every inch of Palestine under Islamic rule and law. Hamas today has an army of thousands. It also has a large arsenal of rockets — home-made Qassams and Russian-made, Iranian-financed Katyushas and Grads smuggled, with the Egyptians largely turning a blind eye, through tunnels from Sinai. Last June, Israel and Hamas agreed to a six-month truce. This unsteady calm was periodically violated by armed factions in Gaza that lobbed rockets into Israel's border settlements. Israel responded by periodically suspending shipments of supplies into Gaza. In November and early December, Hamas stepped up the rocket attacks and then, unilaterally, formally announced the end of the truce. The Israeli public and government then gave Defense Minister Ehud Barak a free hand. Israel's highly efficient air assault on Hamas, which began on Saturday, was his first move. Most of Hamas's security and governmental compounds were turned into rubble and several hundred Hamas fighters were killed. But the attack will not solve the basic problem posed by a Gaza Strip populated by 1.5 million impoverished, desperate Palestinians who are ruled by a fanatic regime and are tightly hemmed in by fences and by border crossings controlled by Israel and Egypt. An enormous Israeli ground operation aimed at conquering the Gaza Strip and destroying Hamas would probably bog down in the alleyways of refugee camps before achieving its goal. (And even if these goals were somehow achieved, renewed and indefinite Israeli rule over Gaza would prove unpalatable to all concerned.) More likely are small, limited armored incursions, intended to curtail missile launches and kill Hamas fighters. But these are also unlikely to bring the organization to heel — though they may exercise sufficient pressure eventually to achieve, with the mediation of Turkey or Egypt, a renewed temporary truce. That seems to be the most that can be hoped for, though a renewal of rocket attacks on southern Israel, once Hamas recovers, is as certain as day follows night. The fourth immediate threat to Israel's existence is internal. It is posed by the country's Arab minority. Over the past two decades, Israel's 1.3 million Arab citizens have been radicalized, with many openly avowing a Palestinian identity and embracing Palestinian national aims. Their spokesmen say that their loyalty lies with their people rather than with their state, Israel. Many of the community's leaders, who benefit from Israeli democracy, more or less publicly supported Hezbollah in 2006 and continue to call for "autonomy" (of one sort or another) and for the dissolution of the Jewish state. Demography, if not Arab victory in battle, offers the recipe for such a dissolution. The birth rates for Israeli Arabs are among the highest in the world, with 4 or 5 children per family (as opposed to the 2 or 3 children per family among Israeli Jews). If present trends persist, Arabs could constitute the majority of Israel's citizens by 2040 or 2050. Already, within five to 10 years, Palestinians (Israeli Arabs coupled with those who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip) will form the majority population of Palestine (the land lying between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean). Friction between Israeli Arabs and Jews is already a cogent political factor. In 2000, at the start of the second intifada, thousands of Arab youngsters, in sympathy with their brethren in the territories, rioted along Israel's major highways and in Israel's ethnically mixed cities. The past fortnight has seen a recurrence, albeit on a smaller scale, of such rioting. Down the road, Israel's Jews fear more violence and terrorism by Israeli Arabs. Most Jews see the Arab minority as a potential fifth column. What is common to these specific threats is their unconventionality. Between 1948 and 1982 Israel coped relatively well with the threat from conventional Arab armies. Indeed, it repeatedly trounced them. But Iran's nuclear threat, the rise of organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah that operate from across international borders and from the midst of dense civilian populations, and Israeli Arabs' growing disaffection with the state and their identification with its enemies, offer a completely different set of challenges. And they are challenges that Israel's leaders and public, bound by Western democratic and liberal norms of behavior, appear to find particularly difficult to counter. Israel's sense of the walls closing in on it has this past week led to one violent reaction. Given the new realities, it would not be surprising if more powerful explosions were to follow. Benny Morris, a professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben-Gurion University, is the author, most recently, of "1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War." -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 21:47:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:17:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] India signs biggest ever defence deal with US Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050817x44201e7bmf0c5cb725b2785a4@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Even as we debate and discuss economic depression and as some would argue, its obvious correlation with terror. It seems that in some sectors terror and economics go hand in hand and rightly so, for in order to protect our great country we need few sticks. Please read the story below which indicates that how even in these times of rather grave economic crisis the Indian Government is giving its two pennies to the cause of generating employment. Kind regards Taha India signs biggest ever defence deal with US Font Size Agencies Posted: Jan 05, 2009 at 1651 hrs IST AddThis Print Email Feedback Discuss India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major Boeing.India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major Boeing. India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major Boeing. Related Stories: US site rank Indian commandos as 'top Desis'Indian Americans organise 'Washington Lobby Day'Shift focus of US military aid to Pak: Indo-AmericansUS envoy meets ChidambaramIndian Americans ask UN to declare Pak a terrorist state New Delhi: In its largest defence purchase ever from the US, India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major Boeing to strengthen the Navy's intelligence gathering capabilities. The USD 2.1 billion contract for eight Boeing P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft was signed between a Defence Ministry official and Boeing's country head Vivek Lall here on January 1, Navy and industry sources said in New Delhi on Monday. The Government had approved the deal in its last Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) meeting in 2008 after protracted talks. The deal with Boeing, sources said, was through a direct commercial contract and issues such as end-user verification agreement between India and US for these defence products were still pending, sources said. The Navy will get its first aircraft under the deal by 2012-13 and the rest of the aircraft would be delivered in phases by 2015-16, sources said. The contract also provided for the Navy to place follow-on orders for about eight more of these aircraft, being purchased to replace the existing fleet of eight ageing Tupolev-142M turboprops. The P-8I is armed with torpedoes, depth bombs and Harpoon anti-ship missiles and is capable of anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare. Expected to help in plugging the existing gaps in Navy's maritime reconnaissance capabilities, the aircraft has an operating range of over 600 nautical miles. Customised to meet Indian Navy's needs and based on the Boeing 737 commercial airliner, the P-8I aircraft is a variant of the P-8A Poseidon multi-mission maritime aircraft under development for the US Navy to replace its P-3C Orion fleet. Interestingly, the P8I deal would be the largest deal India signed with the US, after the USD 962 million deal signed in 2007 for six Lockheed Martin's C-130J 'Super Hercules' transport aicraft for its special forces. Its purchase would greatly help inter-operability and supportability objectives of both the Indian and US Navies, according to a Boeing official in New Delhi. Apart from the Tu-142Ms, the Indian Navy currently uses IL-38SDs and Dorniers for surveillance operations in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR). It was also looking for six advanced medium-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft at a budget of Rs 1,600 crore to further boost its patrol and intelligence gathering capabilities in the IOR. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 22:48:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:18:44 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-34 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050918k6083934eg422d22c2c647fcc9@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050331/asp/northeast/story_4554083.asp The Telegraph | Thursday, March 31, 2005 | Delhi skirts IMDT debate - Court?s queries on migration barely answered R. VENKATARAMAN New Delhi, March 30: Delhi today informed the Supreme Court that ?four data entry operators? had been assigned the task of computerising citizenship records as part of the process of identifying and deporting illegal migrants, provoking a caustic reaction from those demanding the repeal of the allegedly ineffective Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunals) Act. The government was responding to the apex court?s directive to file an affidavit on the subject of issuing multi-purpose national identity cards, the creation of a national citizenship register and a former Assam governor?s report on illegal migration. ?The government of India has agreed to provide funds for the purchase of computers required for computerisation of the (national citizenship) register,? Delhi stated in its affidavit. But Manish Goswami, one of the lawyers arguing for abrogation of the IMDT Act, was clearly not impressed. ?The way things are described in this response, it might take 40 more years to even prepare the register and identify the Bangladeshi illegal immigrants, by which time the demography of Assam, West Bengal and even Delhi and Maharashtra would have further changed because immigrants have infiltrated all these areas,? he said. Delhi touted the continuity of the process of fencing the border, preparing a databank of citizens, strengthening the BSF, registering countryboats and intensifying surveillance of the riverine sector of the Indo-Bangladesh order as ?action taken? on the report compiled by former governor Lt Gen. (retd) S.K. Sinha. The governor had warned of catastrophic demographic changes in Assam if illegal migration continued. The apex court will resume its hearing on the case tomorrow. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 22:50:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:20:41 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-35 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050920w7420ce75m9a617f9c2f823c4d@mail.gmail.com> http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060319/spectrum/book4.htm Tribune Spectum Sunday, March 19, 2006 Mission technology Rajesh Kumar Aggarwal The State, IT and Development eds. R.K. Bagga, Kenneth Keniston and Rohit Raj Mathur. Sage Publications. Pages 325. Rs 380. Information technology (IT) and IT-enabled services (ITES) have achieved record growth in recent years. While the number of telephone and Internet users have increased manifold, software development and earnings too have increased to a new high. However, the digital divide between the rural and urban sectors, public and private sectors continues. The book has been divided into four sections—The Route to Development, Challenges Before the State, ICT Initiatives in Developing India and The Road Ahead. The first section focuses intensively on good governance. It says that governments are now gearing up to appear SMART (simple, moral, accountable, responsive and transparent) and ICT (information and communication technology) has an indispensable role in social, economic and political development of the state. At the same time, the book argues that ICT is not a substitute for good governance but it can be an enabler of good governance. President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam in his paper, Vision of Citizen-Centric E-Governance for India, visualises e-governance as "a transparent smart e-governance with seamless access, secure and authentic flow of information crossing the inter-departmental barrier and providing a fair and unbiased service to the citizens". He says the primary data requirement for effective e-governance is a national citizen ID card, which should be a multi-purpose, secure and authentic, similar to the photocopy of an individual, with multifactor authentication such as photograph and biometrics-fingerprints, iris-based systems and digital signatures. The papers by Jayaprakash Narayan, E.A.S. Sarna and Sameer Sachdeva and Rohit Raj Mathur advocate investment in ICT but cautions that such investments should only be made rationally. It would be detrimental to invest on computers in schools and hospitals, if these institutions lack basic facilities such as proper buildings, blackboards, toilets in schools and medicines, doctors and para-medicals in hospitals. Even though ICT revolution is being perceived as the new engine of growth, the second section of the book points that there are many challenges before the state such as bridging the digital divide, regulating framework to facilitate universal connectivity in India, implementation of cyber laws, organising process documentation and integration of e-governance. Moreover, there are challenges before the state to combat corruption in public life. N. Vittal, former Central Vigilance Commissioner, recounting his experiences, says ICT can act as a powerful administrative tool that can bring corrupt acts of individuals to the notice of the society at large with a much greater impact. R.K. Bagga highlights some of the critical messages for digitising governments, which are important for government to business, government to citizen, government to employee and government to government (G2B, G2C, G2E and G2G) decisions. The section three lists some of the ICT e-governance initiatives in rural and urban India. These are eSeva and Saukaryam (meaning facility in Telugu) in Andhra Pradesh and FRIENDS (Fast, Reliable, Instant, Efficient Network for Distribution of Services), IKM (Information Kerala Mission), and Akshaya (a project to spread mass computer literacy at grassroots level) in Kerala. The Road Ahead, suggests a bigger role for e-governance in overall development of the nation. It advocates the creation of micro-enterprises around technology, promoting public-private partnership. The last paper by R.K. Bagga and Rohit Raj Mathur summarises some very important recommendations based on the three ASCI (Administrative staff College of India) workshops for G2B, G2C, G2E and G2G groups, and records the suggested future action agenda. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 22:52:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:22:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-36 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050922y234b2ac2i9e4cff43ad1a18f9@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2005/12/21/stories/2005122119321700.htm The Hindu Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 Evolve system to disqualify dubious politicians: Kalam Staff Reporter "Election officer can glean track records " "The core of empowerment for prosperity of one billion Indians was connectivity and partnership between governmental and multiple institutions in the public and private domains" NEW DELHI: Expounding his vision of realising knowledge economy through application of e-governance for empowering the nation, President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam on Tuesday said even politicians of doubtful integrity could be kept away from elections in that set-up. Speaking at the India Empowered Summit organised here by The Indian Express along with Tata and NDTV Profit, Mr. Kalam picked up an election scenario to elucidate the impact of e-governance. When all the government departments and institutions are inter-connected the election officer could immediately verify the candidate's authenticity from the national citizen identity database through multifactor authentication from a multipurpose citizen identity card, he said. "His education credentials can come from university records, his track record of employment from various employers with whom he had worked and his income and wealth resources from the Income-Tax Department and other sources. "The candidate's property record could come from the registration of land authority across the country. "His credit history could be collected from various credit institutions like banks. His civic consciousness and citizenship behaviour could come from the police records and his legal track records from the judicial system." Artificial intelligence "Artificial intelligence software could analyse his credentials and give a rating on how successful a politician will he be," said Mr. Kalam, adding that it was also possible to let people cast their vote sitting at home. Referring to the Indian Oil Corporation employee, S. Manjunath, who was recently killed by the oil mafia in Uttar Pradesh, Mr. Kalam said it was unfortunate but added that it was time to bring about a change to prevent such incidents. "As we are talking about the responsibilities of the Government, it is also essential that people are equally responsible. The education system has to create responsible, enlightened and righteous citizens," Mr. Kalam added. Manjunath's parents who participated in the conclave met the President later. The Summit was a culmination of a series of 160 articles on "Empowering India" contributed by leaders and experts from the fields of politics, government, business, sciences, arts and sports, which were published in The Indian Express. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 22:56:02 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:26:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-36 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050926x5a6dd3c4i2ac5dae4fda7776a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/24/stories/2005072403900800.htm The Hindu Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Jul 24, 2005 BJP criticises handling of internal security Special Correspondent Accuses UPA of mismanaging economy NEW DELHI: The Bharatiya Janata Party on Saturday accused the Manmohan Singh Government of allowing the internal security situation to deteriorate, betraying the "aam aadmi" [common man] by mismanaging the economy and indulging in vote bank politics for narrow gains. Resolutions to this effect were adopted at the party's office-bearers meeting, convened here to discuss the agenda originally drawn up for the July 21-23 national executive meet, since postponed. Briefing presspersons, senior leaders Jaswant Singh and Sushma Swaraj said party matters were not discussed. The focus was on the UPA Government's performance in 14 months of office. "The office-bearers expressed grave concern at the "sharp deterioration" in the country's internal security situation ever since the Congress party, in a post-election arrangement of unprincipled convenience with the Left Front, installed itself into office... ," Mr. Singh said reading out from a resolution. The BJP demanded that the Government "honestly" implement the Supreme Court judgment on the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunal) Act; wind up the Group of Ministers established for the purpose; prevent illegal migration by vigorously enforcing the Foreigners Act 1946 and complete border fencing on the Bangladesh border at the earliest. Other demands included a white paper on "Illegal migration, its status, consequences and remedial action needed," checking the growth of madrasas and proselytising activity in the entire north-east, a multipurpose identity card and a national register of citizens, status report on the spread of naxalism and restoration of the Prevention of Terrorism Act or similar legislationto thwart anti-national activities. FDI in retail trade In a resolution on the economy, the BJP opposed the proposal to open up the retail sector to foreign direct investment. It would affect the viability of small enterprises and have a debilitating effect on the livelihood of lakhs of people engaged in retail trade, it said. The Congress-led Government had not only eroded the living standards of the common man, its mismanagement of the economy had stymied progress as well. The Government had failed to cushion consumers against the rise in petroleum prices, which rose by 30 per cent in a year. The condition of farmers had worsened and the "share of agriculture in India's Gross Domestic Product had dropped.Expressing alarm over "the effects of policy incoherence on the overall economic progress of the country," the BJP said that "after inheriting an economy that was heading for double-digit growth, the UPA has squandered the legacy of the erstwhile National Democratic Alliance Government." From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 22:57:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:27:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-37 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050927r1b59c91jb48ea5bec73372e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/27/stories/2005072716591300.htm The Hindu Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Jul 27, 2005 Patil on steps to prevent illegal migration Special Correspondent Assurance at the end of over five-hour debate; Adjournment motion moved by Advani defeated by voice vote # Floating outposts for riverine areas # Register of citizens to be updated # Multipurpose identity cards soon NEW DELHI: Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil on Tuesday told the Lok Sabha that the Government would not allow genuine citizens to be put to difficulty, following the recent Supreme Court order to scrap the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunal) Act. The Minister's assurance came at the end of an over five-hour debate on an adjournment motion moved by Leader of the Opposition L.K. Advani on the "failure of the Government to protect the eastern borders from illegal migration from Bangladesh." The House rejected the motion by voice vote. Border fencing On the steps to prevent illegal migration, Mr. Patil said fencing of the eastern borders was expected to be completed by next year. Riverine areas would have floating border outposts and Border Security Force battalions would be posted every 30 km, instead of the present 70, to increase vigil. The register of citizens would be updated and the multi-purpose identity card scheme implemented in the border areas. Mr. Patil sought to know why the National Democratic Alliance Government made no effort to act on the Governor's report submitted in November 1998. "Is it not vote bank politics to say that Hindu migrants should be seen as refugees and Muslims as illegal migrants?" The problem probably arose from an Opposition desire to use the issue for political purposes. "We are chips off the old block. Whether Hindus or Muslims, we belong to this land. ... Don't adopt this method, it will create problems." Leader of the House Pranab Mukherjee placed the enactment of the IMDT Act by Parliament in 1983 in historical perspective. While stating the Government was bound to follow the court order, he noted, "We have the right to disagree with view of the Supreme Court declaring it [IMDT] null and void. ... Does it prevent Parliament from passing another Act to ensure the genuine rights of genuine citizens? ... No one is talking of illegal immigrants," he said, responding to the criticism that referring the matter to a Group of Ministers was aimed at diluting it. Welcoming the court order, Mr. Advani saw it as a comment on the functioning of the Government and said that of the three aspects of internal security — terrorism, naxalites and illegal migration — the last was more dangerous. For, there was a collective will to counter the first two aspects and none to tackle illegal immigration. Mr. Advani said the Vajpayee Government had introduced a Bill in 2003 to repeal the Act but the House was dissolved before it could be taken up. Mr. Mukherjee, who was then heading the Parliamentary Standing Committee which scrutinised the Bill, countered this claim. He said the Bill, along with nine others, was referred to the panel towards the end of the session and there were several sittings before the House was dissolved. Communist Party of India (Marxist) leader Basudeb Acharia opposed the motion and said the IMDT was aimed at judicial scrutiny to ensure that the rights of genuine citizens were protected. He cited instances of Bengali-speaking Muslims in the area being put to difficulty. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 5 23:00:39 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:30:39 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-38 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901050930r6d4a0484y42a74b489f718a17@mail.gmail.com> http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\01\06\story_6-1-2008_pg4_10 Daily Times Sunday, January 06, 2008 ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for 'police raj' By Iftikhar Gilani NEW DELHI: The government order mandating all citizens living in Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 lest to invite police action has triggered an intense debate. Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) on Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to have the record of every Indian citizen in the country. "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as it would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people may have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move initiated in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket and have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure micro processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards will not only help in enhancing national security but they would also help in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal immigrants. Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties believed that such cards may become a potential for the police raj and harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card may be even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA regime, a Congress leader pointed out. Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA government has continued the pilot project launched in selected sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging that the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in increasing the national security. The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for increasing the national security. As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the citizens of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub-districts of Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who are 18 and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers issued at birth for all official transactions. A debate continues in the countries like United States and United Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the identification purposes. At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a credible individual identification system for improving the security conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. From atreyee.m at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 23:20:04 2009 From: atreyee.m at gmail.com (atreyee majumder) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 23:20:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 12(Israel) Message-ID: <1944bc230901050950u7855bd7l348f11a910425429@mail.gmail.com> On Israel, the memory and perpetrator of holocausts, I thought this was moving- http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/bruce-anderson/bruce-anderson-israel-is-in-danger-of-fighting-the-last-war-not-the-next-one-1225816.html Atreyee On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:50 PM, wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. The News Story on Sindh Tenancy Act (Zulfiqar Shah) > 2. Wish some Jews lived in Kashmir too (Aditya Raj Kaul) > 3. India signs biggest ever defence deal with US (Taha Mehmood) > 4. News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National > Identity Cards-34 (Taha Mehmood) > 5. News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National > Identity Cards-35 (Taha Mehmood) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:23:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Zulfiqar Shah > Subject: [Reader-list] The News Story on Sindh Tenancy Act > To: Cab Net , Sindh Media > , Sindh org >, > Reader-List > Message-ID: <498374.9937.qm at web38804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Law supporting Sindh peasants lies defunct > > By By Shahid Shah > > KARACHI: According to the Sindh Tenancy Act (STA) 1950, a landlord is > required to pay a fine worth Rs500 if found abusing a tenant, but since its > inception, this law has never been implemented. > > "Peasants have no political and social freedom," lamented Taju Bheel, > President Hari Mazdoor Mahaz Sindh, and suggested that hari (farmer) courts > be formed to resolve the issue. > > The STA was an attempt to address issues faced by tenants who are peasants, > such as the duration of their residence and their share of agricultural > produce. However, according to a draft prepared by the Asian Development > Bank, "the Act no longer reflects contemporary circumstances and needs and > the level of compliance is low." > > One of the issues tenants face today is that landowners take loans worth > millions of rupees from banks in tenants' names. > > "The government is providing billions of rupees to rescue the rich > (shareholders) from the sinking stock exchange," said a social activist. > "Instead, it should come forward to pay back peasants' loans." > > Currently, there is no tribunal in place to deal with matters related to > peasants. Moreover, they cannot afford to go to civil courts, where cases > can drag on for several years. Under the STA, every tenant must be > registered, but according to Zulfiqar Shah, provincial head of South Asia > Partnership (SAP), a civil society organisation, this has never happened. In > addition, none of the tenants have a permanent address, as they are often > forced by their landlords to relocate. > > "Such displacement affects education," said Bheel. "These children should > be treated equally and provided a quota in universities and colleges." > > According to Zulfiqar Shah, Pakistanshould follow India's example and form > an agricultural policy for its farmers. As a mark of protest, tenants > residing in Sindh, united under the SAP, have planned a march from > Hyderabadto the Sindh Assembly building on March 15. The march is expected > to end by the close of month. > > Sindh is home to over a million peasants, none of whom have access to > education or health services. Before the partition of the sub-continent, the > STA ensured that peasants in all provinces of Indiawould receive their > rights. By contrast, the traditional system allowed the landlord to impose > his own rules. > > Rochi Ram, a lawyer and social activist, explained that in the majority of > India, each piece of land was in the hands of three parties; the government, > the landowner and the peasant, but just the feudal lord and landowner in > Sindh. > > In 1930, things looked to be changing for the peasants when the Sindh Hari > Committee was formed. At the same time, however, the landof Sindhat Sukkur > Barrage and JamraoCanalwas distributed among people from Punjab, resulting > in widespread protests in Sindh. > > With the help of the Sindh Hari Committee and the leadership of Comrade > Hyder Bux Jatoi and Qadir Khokhar, the peasants succeeded in getting the STA > enforced in 1950, which was meant to ensure interaction between the tenant > and landowner. > > According to the STA, all disputes between the peasant and landowner were > to be resolved by the Mukhtiarkar, then a first-class magistrate. > However, when landowners entered politics and became ministers, the > Mukhtiarkar became a servant of the feudal lord. The STA also stated that > the tenant had to pay the cost of the plough, but ever since the mode of > production switched from ox ploughs to tractors and other machinery, the > cost has increased manifold. > > "They (peasants) were in a better condition before the partition," said > Ram. He believes that the current political system, where the majority of > the politicians are from the families of feudal lords, has done nothing for > the protection of peasants' rights. "They have no way of getting justice." > > Source: The News, KarachiSaturday, January 03, 2009 > > > New Email names for you! > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and > @rocketmail. > Hurry before someone else does! > http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:07:21 +0530 > From: "Aditya Raj Kaul" > Subject: [Reader-list] Wish some Jews lived in Kashmir too > To: "sarai list" > Message-ID: > <6353c690901050737t45eae053hdbc58209422b248b at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 > > December 30, 2008 Op-Ed Contributor > Why Israel Feels Threatened By BENNY MORRIS > > Li-On, Israel > > MANY Israelis feel that the walls — and history — are closing in on their > 60-year-old state, much as they felt in early June 1967, just before Israel > launched the Six-Day War and destroyed the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian > armies in Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. > > More than 40 years ago, the Egyptians had driven a United Nations > peacekeeping force from the Sinai-Israel border, had closed the Straits of > Tiran to Israeli shipping and air traffic and had deployed the equivalent > of > seven armored and infantry divisions on Israel's doorstep. Egypt had signed > a series of military pacts with Syria and Jordan and placed troops in the > West Bank. Arab radio stations blared messages about the coming destruction > of Israel. > > Israelis, or rather, Israeli Jews, are beginning to feel much the way their > parents did in those apocalyptic days. Israel is a much more powerful and > prosperous state today. In 1967 there were only some 2 million Jews in the > country — today there are about 5.5 million — and the military did not have > nuclear weapons. But the bulk of the population looks to the future with > deep foreboding. > > The foreboding has two general sources and four specific causes. The > general > problems are simple. First, the Arab and wider Islamic worlds, despite > Israeli hopes since 1948 and notwithstanding the peace treaties signed by > Egypt and Jordan in 1979 and 1994, have never truly accepted the legitimacy > of Israel's creation and continue to oppose its existence. > > Second, public opinion in the West (and in democracies, governments can't > be > far behind) is gradually reducing its support for Israel as the West looks > askance at the Jewish state's treatment of its Palestinian neighbors and > wards. The Holocaust is increasingly becoming a faint and ineffectual > memory > and the Arab states are increasingly powerful and assertive. > > More specifically, Israel faces a combination of dire threats. To the east, > Iran is frantically advancing its nuclear project, which most Israelis and > most of the world's intelligence agencies believe is designed to produce > nuclear weapons. This, coupled with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's > public threats to destroy Israel — and his denials of the Holocaust and of > any homosexuality in Iran, which underscore his irrationality — has > Israel's > political and military leaders on tenterhooks. > > To the north, the Lebanese fundamentalist organization Hezbollah, which > also > vows to destroy Israel and functions as an Iranian proxy, has thoroughly > rearmed since its war with Israel in 2006. According to Israeli > intelligence > estimates, Hezbollah now has an arsenal of 30,000 to 40,000 Russian-made > rockets, supplied by Syria and Iran — twice the number it possessed in > 2006. > Some of the rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Dimona, where Israel's nuclear > production facility is located. If there is war between Israel and Iran, > Hezbollah can be expected to join in. (It may well join in the renewed > Israeli-Palestinian conflict, too.) > > To the south, Israel faces the Islamist Hamas movement, which controls the > Gaza Strip and whose charter promises to destroy Israel and bring every > inch > of Palestine under Islamic rule and law. Hamas today has an army of > thousands. It also has a large arsenal of rockets — home-made Qassams and > Russian-made, Iranian-financed Katyushas and Grads smuggled, with the > Egyptians largely turning a blind eye, through tunnels from Sinai. > > Last June, Israel and Hamas agreed to a six-month truce. This unsteady calm > was periodically violated by armed factions in Gaza that lobbed rockets > into > Israel's border settlements. Israel responded by periodically suspending > shipments of supplies into Gaza. > > In November and early December, Hamas stepped up the rocket attacks and > then, unilaterally, formally announced the end of the truce. The Israeli > public and government then gave Defense Minister Ehud Barak a free hand. > Israel's highly efficient air assault on Hamas, which began on Saturday, > was > his first move. Most of Hamas's security and governmental compounds were > turned into rubble and several hundred Hamas fighters were killed. > > But the attack will not solve the basic problem posed by a Gaza Strip > populated by 1.5 million impoverished, desperate Palestinians who are ruled > by a fanatic regime and are tightly hemmed in by fences and by border > crossings controlled by Israel and Egypt. > > An enormous Israeli ground operation aimed at conquering the Gaza Strip and > destroying Hamas would probably bog down in the alleyways of refugee camps > before achieving its goal. (And even if these goals were somehow achieved, > renewed and indefinite Israeli rule over Gaza would prove unpalatable to > all > concerned.) > > More likely are small, limited armored incursions, intended to curtail > missile launches and kill Hamas fighters. But these are also unlikely to > bring the organization to heel — though they may exercise sufficient > pressure eventually to achieve, with the mediation of Turkey or Egypt, a > renewed temporary truce. That seems to be the most that can be hoped for, > though a renewal of rocket attacks on southern Israel, once Hamas recovers, > is as certain as day follows night. > > The fourth immediate threat to Israel's existence is internal. It is posed > by the country's Arab minority. Over the past two decades, Israel's 1.3 > million Arab citizens have been radicalized, with many openly avowing a > Palestinian identity and embracing Palestinian national aims. Their > spokesmen say that their loyalty lies with their people rather than with > their state, Israel. Many of the community's leaders, who benefit from > Israeli democracy, more or less publicly supported Hezbollah in 2006 and > continue to call for "autonomy" (of one sort or another) and for the > dissolution of the Jewish state. > > Demography, if not Arab victory in battle, offers the recipe for such a > dissolution. The birth rates for Israeli Arabs are among the highest in the > world, with 4 or 5 children per family (as opposed to the 2 or 3 children > per family among Israeli Jews). > > If present trends persist, Arabs could constitute the majority of Israel's > citizens by 2040 or 2050. Already, within five to 10 years, Palestinians > (Israeli Arabs coupled with those who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip) > will form the majority population of Palestine (the land lying between the > Jordan River and the Mediterranean). > > Friction between Israeli Arabs and Jews is already a cogent political > factor. In 2000, at the start of the second intifada, thousands of Arab > youngsters, in sympathy with their brethren in the territories, rioted > along > Israel's major highways and in Israel's ethnically mixed cities. > > The past fortnight has seen a recurrence, albeit on a smaller scale, of > such > rioting. Down the road, Israel's Jews fear more violence and terrorism by > Israeli Arabs. Most Jews see the Arab minority as a potential fifth column. > > What is common to these specific threats is their unconventionality. > Between > 1948 and 1982 Israel coped relatively well with the threat from > conventional > Arab armies. Indeed, it repeatedly trounced them. But Iran's nuclear > threat, > the rise of organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah that operate from across > international borders and from the midst of dense civilian populations, and > Israeli Arabs' growing disaffection with the state and their identification > with its enemies, offer a completely different set of challenges. And they > are challenges that Israel's leaders and public, bound by Western > democratic > and liberal norms of behavior, appear to find particularly difficult to > counter. > > Israel's sense of the walls closing in on it has this past week led to one > violent reaction. Given the new realities, it would not be surprising if > more powerful explosions were to follow. > > Benny Morris, a professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben-Gurion > University, is the author, most recently, of "1948: A History of the First > Arab-Israeli War." > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:17:49 +0000 > From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: [Reader-list] India signs biggest ever defence deal with US > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Message-ID: > <65be9bf40901050817x44201e7bmf0c5cb725b2785a4 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear All, > > Even as we debate and discuss economic depression and as some would argue, > its obvious correlation with terror. It seems that in some sectors terror > and economics go hand in hand and rightly so, for in order to protect our > great country we need few sticks. > > Please read the story below which indicates that how even in these times of > rather grave economic crisis the Indian Government is giving its two > pennies > to the cause of generating employment. > > Kind regards > > Taha > > > > > India signs biggest ever defence deal with US > Font Size > Agencies Posted: Jan 05, 2009 at 1651 hrs IST > AddThis > Print Email Feedback Discuss > India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major > Boeing.India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from > aerospace > major Boeing. > > India has signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major > Boeing. > Related Stories: US site rank Indian commandos as 'top Desis'Indian > Americans organise 'Washington Lobby Day'Shift focus of US military aid to > Pak: Indo-AmericansUS envoy meets ChidambaramIndian Americans ask UN to > declare Pak a terrorist state > New Delhi: In its largest defence purchase ever from the US, India has > signed a deal to buy eight maritime aircraft from aerospace major Boeing to > strengthen the Navy's intelligence gathering capabilities. > > The USD 2.1 billion contract for eight Boeing P-8I long-range maritime > reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft was signed between a Defence Ministry > official and Boeing's country head Vivek Lall here on January 1, Navy and > industry sources said in New Delhi on Monday. > > The Government had approved the deal in its last Cabinet Committee on > Security (CCS) meeting in 2008 after protracted talks. > > The deal with Boeing, sources said, was through a direct commercial > contract > and issues such as end-user verification agreement between India and US for > these defence products were still pending, sources said. > > The Navy will get its first aircraft under the deal by 2012-13 and the rest > of the aircraft would be delivered in phases by 2015-16, sources said. > > The contract also provided for the Navy to place follow-on orders for about > eight more of these aircraft, being purchased to replace the existing fleet > of eight ageing Tupolev-142M turboprops. > > The P-8I is armed with torpedoes, depth bombs and Harpoon anti-ship > missiles > and is capable of anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare. > > Expected to help in plugging the existing gaps in Navy's maritime > reconnaissance capabilities, the aircraft has an operating range of over > 600 > nautical miles. > > Customised to meet Indian Navy's needs and based on the Boeing 737 > commercial airliner, the P-8I aircraft is a variant of the P-8A Poseidon > multi-mission maritime aircraft under development for the US Navy to > replace > its P-3C Orion fleet. > > Interestingly, the P8I deal would be the largest deal India signed with the > US, after the USD 962 million deal signed in 2007 for six Lockheed Martin's > C-130J 'Super Hercules' transport aicraft for its special forces. > > Its purchase would greatly help inter-operability and supportability > objectives of both the Indian and US Navies, according to a Boeing official > in New Delhi. > > Apart from the Tu-142Ms, the Indian Navy currently uses IL-38SDs and > Dorniers for surveillance operations in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR). > > It was also looking for six advanced medium-range maritime reconnaissance > aircraft at a budget of Rs 1,600 crore to further boost its patrol and > intelligence gathering capabilities in the IOR. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:18:44 +0000 > From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose > National Identity Cards-34 > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Message-ID: > <65be9bf40901050918k6083934eg422d22c2c647fcc9 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050331/asp/northeast/story_4554083.asp > > The Telegraph > | Thursday, March 31, 2005 | > > Delhi skirts IMDT debate > - Court?s queries on migration barely answered > R. VENKATARAMAN > > New Delhi, March 30: Delhi today informed the Supreme Court that ?four > data entry operators? had been assigned the task of computerising > citizenship records as part of the process of identifying and > deporting illegal migrants, provoking a caustic reaction from those > demanding the repeal of the allegedly ineffective Illegal Migrants > (Determination by Tribunals) Act. > > The government was responding to the apex court?s directive to file an > affidavit on the subject of issuing multi-purpose national identity > cards, the creation of a national citizenship register and a former > Assam governor?s report on illegal migration. > > ?The government of India has agreed to provide funds for the purchase > of computers required for computerisation of the (national > citizenship) register,? Delhi stated in its affidavit. > > But Manish Goswami, one of the lawyers arguing for abrogation of the > IMDT Act, was clearly not impressed. ?The way things are described in > this response, it might take 40 more years to even prepare the > register and identify the Bangladeshi illegal immigrants, by which > time the demography of Assam, West Bengal and even Delhi and > Maharashtra would have further changed because immigrants have > infiltrated all these areas,? he said. > > Delhi touted the continuity of the process of fencing the border, > preparing a databank of citizens, strengthening the BSF, registering > countryboats and intensifying surveillance of the riverine sector of > the Indo-Bangladesh order as ?action taken? on the report compiled by > former governor Lt Gen. (retd) S.K. Sinha. The governor had warned of > catastrophic demographic changes in Assam if illegal migration > continued. The apex court will resume its hearing on the case > tomorrow. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:20:41 +0000 > From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose > National Identity Cards-35 > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Message-ID: > <65be9bf40901050920w7420ce75m9a617f9c2f823c4d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 > > http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060319/spectrum/book4.htm > > Tribune > Spectum > > Sunday, March 19, 2006 > > > > Mission technology > Rajesh Kumar Aggarwal > > The State, IT and Development > eds. R.K. Bagga, Kenneth Keniston and Rohit Raj Mathur. Sage > Publications. Pages 325. Rs 380. > > Information technology (IT) and IT-enabled services (ITES) have > achieved record growth in recent years. While the number of telephone > and Internet users have increased manifold, software development and > earnings too have increased to a new high. However, the digital divide > between the rural and urban sectors, public and private sectors > continues. > > The book has been divided into four sections—The Route to Development, > Challenges Before the State, ICT Initiatives in Developing India and > The Road Ahead. > > The first section focuses intensively on good governance. It says that > governments are now gearing up to appear SMART (simple, moral, > accountable, responsive and transparent) and ICT (information and > communication technology) has an indispensable role in social, > economic and political development of the state. At the same time, the > book argues that ICT is not a substitute for good governance but it > can be an enabler of good governance. > > President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam in his paper, Vision of Citizen-Centric > E-Governance for India, visualises e-governance as "a transparent > smart e-governance with seamless access, secure and authentic flow of > information crossing the inter-departmental barrier and providing a > fair and unbiased service to the citizens". He says the primary data > requirement for effective e-governance is a national citizen ID card, > which should be a multi-purpose, secure and authentic, similar to the > photocopy of an individual, with multifactor authentication such as > photograph and biometrics-fingerprints, iris-based systems and digital > signatures. > > The papers by Jayaprakash Narayan, E.A.S. Sarna and Sameer Sachdeva > and Rohit Raj Mathur advocate investment in ICT but cautions that such > investments should only be made rationally. It would be detrimental to > invest on computers in schools and hospitals, if these institutions > lack basic facilities such as proper buildings, blackboards, toilets > in schools and medicines, doctors and para-medicals in hospitals. > > Even though ICT revolution is being perceived as the new engine of > growth, the second section of the book points that there are many > challenges before the state such as bridging the digital divide, > regulating framework to facilitate universal connectivity in India, > implementation of cyber laws, organising process documentation and > integration of e-governance. Moreover, there are challenges before the > state to combat corruption in public life. N. Vittal, former Central > Vigilance Commissioner, recounting his experiences, says ICT can act > as a powerful administrative tool that can bring corrupt acts of > individuals to the notice of the society at large with a much greater > impact. > > R.K. Bagga highlights some of the critical messages for digitising > governments, which are important for government to business, > government to citizen, government to employee and government to > government (G2B, G2C, G2E and G2G) decisions. > > The section three lists some of the ICT e-governance initiatives in > rural and urban India. These are eSeva and Saukaryam (meaning facility > in Telugu) in Andhra Pradesh and FRIENDS (Fast, Reliable, Instant, > Efficient Network for Distribution of Services), IKM (Information > Kerala Mission), and Akshaya (a project to spread mass computer > literacy at grassroots level) in Kerala. > > The Road Ahead, suggests a bigger role for e-governance in overall > development of the nation. It advocates the creation of > micro-enterprises around technology, promoting public-private > partnership. The last paper by R.K. Bagga and Rohit Raj Mathur > summarises some very important recommendations based on the three ASCI > (Administrative staff College of India) workshops for G2B, G2C, G2E > and G2G groups, and records the suggested future action agenda. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 12 > ******************************************* > From ravis at sarai.net Mon Jan 5 23:42:31 2009 From: ravis at sarai.net (Ravi Sundaram) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:42:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: The Terrorist and the Citizen, IIC Jan 10 Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090105234002.03b4c340@mail.sarai.net> The Sociology Unit at the Institute of Economic Growth, and the India International Centre invite you to a panel discussion on *The Terrorist and the Citizen: How Television Transforms Political Life*. 4 pm on Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 Lecture Room, India International Centre Annexe Participants: *Chair: Arindam Sengupta, Executive Editor, *Times of India* *Jawed Naqvi*, Delhi correspondent, *The Dawn*, Karachi *Ashutosh*, Managing Editor, IBN 7 *Harinder Baweja*, Editor-Investigations, *Tehelka* *Dipankar Gupta*, Professor of Sociology, Jawaharlal Nehru University ------------- From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 00:27:47 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:57:47 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan References: <24B6440BFE624EE5A697955EFEA3F8B9@tara> <995a19920901041256w1ab288e3o5956ca71d4eec157@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45ED451FD1B74E4DA727314D879C1119@tara> I found nothing illuminating in the article. Thankfully I use other sources except reader list for reading news. Just because a journalist works for an authentic news agency, it doesn't mean he/she becomes credible. What do you say about Praveen Swami working for Hindu? Of course Barkha Dutt or anyone in Imdian media will do better to put their own house in order before commenting on the ills of Pakistan. I agree that it is not fair to criticize everything that comes from Pakistan, I also believe that it is wrong to applaud everything that comes from there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Sethi" To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan > Dear Taraprakash, > Mohammed Hanif is in fact, the HEAD of the BBC Urdu service, - the > very same service that you so approvingly quote. So I would give him > far more credence than you have. Further, since the BBC Urdu appears > to be a paragon of journalistic practice - i think he is well suited > to make a few remarks on the stereotypical way in which pakistan is > portrayed in the Indian media. > > I find it really amusing that indians can dedicate reams to pointing > out (in painful detail i might add) how barkha dutt or rajdeep > sardesai got it wrong - but when a pakistani writes a reasonably > illuminating opinion piece - he is asked to put his house in order. > best > a. > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:14 PM, taraprakash wrote: >> I wonder if this article is talking about Pakistan or Pakistanis. >> Generally >> when media talks about a country, India, Pakistan, US etc., they mean the >> governments not the people. If you need to know about the nexus between >> Pakistan state apparatuses and these Jihadi groups, one can just visit >> www.bbcurdu.com >> As far as I know, this site is not part of the Indian media. BBC Urdu >> service, that has its headqurters in Pakistan, and that was first to >> send >> its correspondents to Kasab's village to confirm his identity as a >> Pakistani >> national, is running a feature on Jihadis and Pakistan establishment >> links. >> The site also has an interview with Hamid Gul, former ISI chief and one >> of >> the founding members of these jihadi groups. On being asked "what was the >> relevance of these groups once the USSR forces had been defeated in >> Afghanistan?" Gul says that earlier the US had an even-handed approach >> towards India and Pakistan. But now there is a tilt towards India, so >> these >> nonstate actors are required as a deterant to India. The author of the >> below >> article also ignores the fact that different Jihadi groups are working >> towards different agenda. So much so that Pakistan establishment differs >> between good taliban, those who don't attack Pakistani army, and bad >> Taliban, those who destroy pakistani infrastructure. So much about the >> homogenity of these groups. How much active these Jihadi groups in the >> Indian territory, is also dependent on what kind of relationship India >> and >> Pakistan governments have. So much about decoupling of the Pakistani >> state >> and these groups. I wonder if the mango exporting author heard that Navaz >> Sharif interview that was not broadcast only on India media. In the >> interview given to one of the Pakistani channels Sharif said that the >> government had something to hide in Faridkot. I wonder if the mango >> exporting author reads anything by Hoodboy and Mariana Babar, both >> Pakistanis. Yes, Indian media have lots of shortcommings, but before >> anyone >> from Pakistan addresses them, they need to first put their house in >> order. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "M Javed" >> To: "sarai list" >> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:19 AM >> Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan >> >> >>> Ten myths about Pakistan >>> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >>> Mohammed Hanif >>> >>> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can >>> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place >>> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian >>> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in >>> recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its >>> citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... >>> >>> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the >>> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the >>> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. >>> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags >>> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage >>> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has >>> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did >>> fighting India. >>> >>> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that >>> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the >>> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased >>> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country >>> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its >>> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian >>> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, >>> put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the >>> law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying >>> that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never >>> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not >>> want another Musharraf. >>> >>> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very >>> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General >>> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being >>> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed >>> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to >>> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably >>> heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army >>> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. >>> >>> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a >>> sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than >>> India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish >>> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other >>> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of >>> years have become its biggest liability. >>> >>> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not >>> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have >>> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they >>> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and >>> fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase >>> from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul >>> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and >>> shelters for sick animals. >>> >>> It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this >>> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more >>> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the >>> largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was >>> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't >>> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan >>> took much notice. >>> >>> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - >>> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India >>> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on >>> Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than >>> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who >>> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a >>> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much >>> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, >>> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these >>> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him >>> seriously. >>> >>> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of >>> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite >>> targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities >>> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do >>> you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow >>> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles >>> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should >>> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. >>> >>> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a >>> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. >>> Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own >>> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious >>> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the >>> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. >>> >>> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the >>> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, >>> and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then >>> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry >>> in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the >>> countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a >>> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide >>> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi >>> because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our >>> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >>> >>> The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' >>> >>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 6 01:38:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:08:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Smart Card Apps Make Financial & Retail Transactions Safer Message-ID: <65be9bf40901051208x4d582dfft990e8b74d1873f1@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, So much so for global depression. Some sectors are witnessing a boom as suggested by news reports. Take the smart card sector for instance, as the report below suggests, this sector may witness an increase of revenue by 15%. It seems as if one man's poison is indeed other man's food. Global insecurity is leading to secure sales and secure employment. Regards Taha http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/smart-card-apps-make-financial-retail-transactions-safer-81728.php Smart Card Apps Make Financial & Retail Transactions Safer Smart cards have emerged as a viable and safe option for end users to prevent fraudulent transactions; as a result, their use in financial and retail sectors will increase significantly. NEW DELHI, INDIA, January 05, 2009 /24-7PressRelease/ -- RNCOS in its new research report "Global Smart Card Market Outlook" says that the financial/retail sector is expected to continue to represent the largest application area for the global smart card industry. And the shipment of smart cards in financial/retail/loyalty is estimated to increase by 15% in the current year. According to the report, the rising applications of smart cards in diverse sectors are due to the high security they provide. Consequently, smart cards are being widely used in financial applications such as payment cards and ATM or banking cards. With robust growth in the global financial market, particularly in the Asia-Pacific region, the opportunities for the global smart card industry have increased tremendously, says the report. Rising number of fraudulent cases has highlighted the risks associated with using magnetic strip cards for transactions. Moreover, the growth opportunities for smart cards have further increased by the decision taken by Visa and MasterCard to use Europay, MasterCard and Visa (EMV) specification worldwide. Besides, the banking sector represents an area of tremendous opportunities for smart card industry because its functionalities, such as value-added services and enhanced consumer benefits, have made smart card viable and the safest option for end users. Thus, the demand for smart cards is expected to grow at an unprecedented rate. "Global Smart Card Market Outlook" provides in-depth and comprehensive information on the growing marketplace for smart cards at the global and national level. It contains thorough analysis along with statistical data on the present market trends, emerging markets and future growth prospects for the smart card industry. Apart from this, the report contains statistical information on value, shipments and applications of smart cards at the global and national level that helps clients to identify critical opportunities for growth of the smart card industry. It helps clients to evaluate key factors driving growth in the industry and future avenues. The study also provides forecast on the number of mobile subscribers and smart card shipment by region. For more information visit: http://www.rncos.com/Report/IM599.htm Current Industry News: http://www.rncos.com/Blog/ About RNCOS: RNCOS, incorporated in the year 2002, is an industry research firm. We are a team of industry experts who analyze data collected from credible sources. We provide industry insights and analysis that helps corporations to take timely and accurate business decision in today's globally competitive environment. We are running a special offer on selected reports, where you can avail our reports at discounted prices. Please click here to know more: http://www.rncos.com/promotion.htm From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 02:40:59 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:10:59 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan In-Reply-To: <45ED451FD1B74E4DA727314D879C1119@tara> References: <24B6440BFE624EE5A697955EFEA3F8B9@tara> <995a19920901041256w1ab288e3o5956ca71d4eec157@mail.gmail.com> <45ED451FD1B74E4DA727314D879C1119@tara> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901051310k23912a17jdea4aed8666928be@mail.gmail.com> he's also written about the mango paiti that exploded. http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/a-case-of-exploding-mangoes-the-new-pakistani-novel/ On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:57 PM, taraprakash wrote: > I found nothing illuminating in the article. Thankfully I use other sources > except reader list for reading news. > Just because a journalist works for an authentic news agency, it doesn't > mean he/she becomes credible. What do you say about Praveen Swami working > for Hindu? > Of course Barkha Dutt or anyone in Imdian media will do better to put their > own house in order before commenting on the ills of Pakistan. > I agree that it is not fair to criticize everything that comes from > Pakistan, I also believe that it is wrong to applaud everything that comes > from there. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aman Sethi" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan > > > > Dear Taraprakash, > > Mohammed Hanif is in fact, the HEAD of the BBC Urdu service, - the > > very same service that you so approvingly quote. So I would give him > > far more credence than you have. Further, since the BBC Urdu appears > > to be a paragon of journalistic practice - i think he is well suited > > to make a few remarks on the stereotypical way in which pakistan is > > portrayed in the Indian media. > > > > I find it really amusing that indians can dedicate reams to pointing > > out (in painful detail i might add) how barkha dutt or rajdeep > > sardesai got it wrong - but when a pakistani writes a reasonably > > illuminating opinion piece - he is asked to put his house in order. > > best > > a. > > > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:14 PM, taraprakash > wrote: > >> I wonder if this article is talking about Pakistan or Pakistanis. > >> Generally > >> when media talks about a country, India, Pakistan, US etc., they mean > the > >> governments not the people. If you need to know about the nexus between > >> Pakistan state apparatuses and these Jihadi groups, one can just visit > >> www.bbcurdu.com > >> As far as I know, this site is not part of the Indian media. BBC Urdu > >> service, that has its headqurters in Pakistan, and that was first to > >> send > >> its correspondents to Kasab's village to confirm his identity as a > >> Pakistani > >> national, is running a feature on Jihadis and Pakistan establishment > >> links. > >> The site also has an interview with Hamid Gul, former ISI chief and one > >> of > >> the founding members of these jihadi groups. On being asked "what was > the > >> relevance of these groups once the USSR forces had been defeated in > >> Afghanistan?" Gul says that earlier the US had an even-handed approach > >> towards India and Pakistan. But now there is a tilt towards India, so > >> these > >> nonstate actors are required as a deterant to India. The author of the > >> below > >> article also ignores the fact that different Jihadi groups are working > >> towards different agenda. So much so that Pakistan establishment > differs > >> between good taliban, those who don't attack Pakistani army, and bad > >> Taliban, those who destroy pakistani infrastructure. So much about the > >> homogenity of these groups. How much active these Jihadi groups in the > >> Indian territory, is also dependent on what kind of relationship India > >> and > >> Pakistan governments have. So much about decoupling of the Pakistani > >> state > >> and these groups. I wonder if the mango exporting author heard that > Navaz > >> Sharif interview that was not broadcast only on India media. In the > >> interview given to one of the Pakistani channels Sharif said that the > >> government had something to hide in Faridkot. I wonder if the mango > >> exporting author reads anything by Hoodboy and Mariana Babar, both > >> Pakistanis. Yes, Indian media have lots of shortcommings, but before > >> anyone > >> from Pakistan addresses them, they need to first put their house in > >> order. > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "M Javed" > >> To: "sarai list" > >> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:19 AM > >> Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan > >> > >> > >>> Ten myths about Pakistan > >>> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > >>> Mohammed Hanif > >>> > >>> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can > >>> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place > >>> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian > >>> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in > >>> recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its > >>> citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... > >>> > >>> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the > >>> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the > >>> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. > >>> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags > >>> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage > >>> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has > >>> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did > >>> fighting India. > >>> > >>> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that > >>> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the > >>> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased > >>> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country > >>> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its > >>> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian > >>> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, > >>> put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the > >>> law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying > >>> that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never > >>> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not > >>> want another Musharraf. > >>> > >>> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very > >>> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General > >>> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being > >>> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed > >>> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to > >>> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably > >>> heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army > >>> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. > >>> > >>> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a > >>> sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than > >>> India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish > >>> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other > >>> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of > >>> years have become its biggest liability. > >>> > >>> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not > >>> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have > >>> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they > >>> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and > >>> fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase > >>> from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul > >>> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and > >>> shelters for sick animals. > >>> > >>> It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this > >>> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more > >>> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the > >>> largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was > >>> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't > >>> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan > >>> took much notice. > >>> > >>> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - > >>> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India > >>> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on > >>> Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than > >>> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who > >>> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a > >>> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much > >>> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, > >>> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these > >>> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him > >>> seriously. > >>> > >>> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of > >>> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite > >>> targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities > >>> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do > >>> you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow > >>> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles > >>> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should > >>> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. > >>> > >>> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a > >>> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. > >>> Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own > >>> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious > >>> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the > >>> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. > >>> > >>> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the > >>> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, > >>> and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then > >>> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry > >>> in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the > >>> countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a > >>> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide > >>> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi > >>> because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our > >>> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. > >>> > >>> The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' > >>> > >>> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 02:54:22 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 02:24:22 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901051310k23912a17jdea4aed8666928be@mail.gmail.com> References: <24B6440BFE624EE5A697955EFEA3F8B9@tara> <995a19920901041256w1ab288e3o5956ca71d4eec157@mail.gmail.com> <45ED451FD1B74E4DA727314D879C1119@tara> <5af37bb0901051310k23912a17jdea4aed8666928be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901051324m71c127a8x1b94345b034cefdb@mail.gmail.com> I think the artcle is a smattering fo insights but pretty realistic, instead of the fictional realities that people in other countries have spun primarily to fill their lack of information with self-motivated garbage. let me add that recently the labels of taliban and prevalent modes of feudalism (land & culture) strike me as absolutely not being medieval but of the stone-age. one would blame the attenuated recessed structure government but its hardly there. so there's a real dilemma - you may forget about the rest. taraprakash is talking through his topee. best On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:10 AM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > he's also written about the mango paiti that exploded. > > http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/a-case-of-exploding-mangoes-the-new-pakistani-novel/ > > > > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:57 PM, taraprakash wrote: > >> I found nothing illuminating in the article. Thankfully I use other >> sources >> except reader list for reading news. >> Just because a journalist works for an authentic news agency, it doesn't >> mean he/she becomes credible. What do you say about Praveen Swami working >> for Hindu? >> Of course Barkha Dutt or anyone in Imdian media will do better to put >> their >> own house in order before commenting on the ills of Pakistan. >> I agree that it is not fair to criticize everything that comes from >> Pakistan, I also believe that it is wrong to applaud everything that comes >> from there. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Aman Sethi" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan >> >> >> > Dear Taraprakash, >> > Mohammed Hanif is in fact, the HEAD of the BBC Urdu service, - the >> > very same service that you so approvingly quote. So I would give him >> > far more credence than you have. Further, since the BBC Urdu appears >> > to be a paragon of journalistic practice - i think he is well suited >> > to make a few remarks on the stereotypical way in which pakistan is >> > portrayed in the Indian media. >> > >> > I find it really amusing that indians can dedicate reams to pointing >> > out (in painful detail i might add) how barkha dutt or rajdeep >> > sardesai got it wrong - but when a pakistani writes a reasonably >> > illuminating opinion piece - he is asked to put his house in order. >> > best >> > a. >> > >> > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:14 PM, taraprakash >> wrote: >> >> I wonder if this article is talking about Pakistan or Pakistanis. >> >> Generally >> >> when media talks about a country, India, Pakistan, US etc., they mean >> the >> >> governments not the people. If you need to know about the nexus between >> >> Pakistan state apparatuses and these Jihadi groups, one can just visit >> >> www.bbcurdu.com >> >> As far as I know, this site is not part of the Indian media. BBC Urdu >> >> service, that has its headqurters in Pakistan, and that was first to >> >> send >> >> its correspondents to Kasab's village to confirm his identity as a >> >> Pakistani >> >> national, is running a feature on Jihadis and Pakistan establishment >> >> links. >> >> The site also has an interview with Hamid Gul, former ISI chief and one >> >> of >> >> the founding members of these jihadi groups. On being asked "what was >> the >> >> relevance of these groups once the USSR forces had been defeated in >> >> Afghanistan?" Gul says that earlier the US had an even-handed approach >> >> towards India and Pakistan. But now there is a tilt towards India, so >> >> these >> >> nonstate actors are required as a deterant to India. The author of the >> >> below >> >> article also ignores the fact that different Jihadi groups are working >> >> towards different agenda. So much so that Pakistan establishment >> differs >> >> between good taliban, those who don't attack Pakistani army, and bad >> >> Taliban, those who destroy pakistani infrastructure. So much about the >> >> homogenity of these groups. How much active these Jihadi groups in the >> >> Indian territory, is also dependent on what kind of relationship India >> >> and >> >> Pakistan governments have. So much about decoupling of the Pakistani >> >> state >> >> and these groups. I wonder if the mango exporting author heard that >> Navaz >> >> Sharif interview that was not broadcast only on India media. In the >> >> interview given to one of the Pakistani channels Sharif said that the >> >> government had something to hide in Faridkot. I wonder if the mango >> >> exporting author reads anything by Hoodboy and Mariana Babar, both >> >> Pakistanis. Yes, Indian media have lots of shortcommings, but before >> >> anyone >> >> from Pakistan addresses them, they need to first put their house in >> >> order. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "M Javed" >> >> To: "sarai list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:19 AM >> >> Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan >> >> >> >> >> >>> Ten myths about Pakistan >> >>> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >> >>> Mohammed Hanif >> >>> >> >>> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can >> >>> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place >> >>> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian >> >>> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in >> >>> recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its >> >>> citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... >> >>> >> >>> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the >> >>> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the >> >>> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. >> >>> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags >> >>> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage >> >>> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has >> >>> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did >> >>> fighting India. >> >>> >> >>> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that >> >>> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the >> >>> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased >> >>> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country >> >>> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its >> >>> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian >> >>> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, >> >>> put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the >> >>> law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying >> >>> that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never >> >>> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not >> >>> want another Musharraf. >> >>> >> >>> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very >> >>> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General >> >>> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being >> >>> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed >> >>> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to >> >>> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably >> >>> heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army >> >>> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. >> >>> >> >>> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a >> >>> sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than >> >>> India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish >> >>> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other >> >>> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of >> >>> years have become its biggest liability. >> >>> >> >>> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not >> >>> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have >> >>> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they >> >>> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and >> >>> fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase >> >>> from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul >> >>> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and >> >>> shelters for sick animals. >> >>> >> >>> It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this >> >>> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more >> >>> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the >> >>> largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was >> >>> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't >> >>> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan >> >>> took much notice. >> >>> >> >>> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - >> >>> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India >> >>> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on >> >>> Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than >> >>> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who >> >>> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a >> >>> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much >> >>> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, >> >>> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these >> >>> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him >> >>> seriously. >> >>> >> >>> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of >> >>> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite >> >>> targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities >> >>> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do >> >>> you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow >> >>> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles >> >>> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should >> >>> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. >> >>> >> >>> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a >> >>> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. >> >>> Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own >> >>> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious >> >>> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the >> >>> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. >> >>> >> >>> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the >> >>> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, >> >>> and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then >> >>> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry >> >>> in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the >> >>> countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a >> >>> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide >> >>> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi >> >>> because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our >> >>> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >> >>> >> >>> The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' >> >>> >> >>> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From aman.am at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 03:35:00 2009 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:05:00 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan Message-ID: <995a19920901051405i4f01691ds74098a71f7cd182@mail.gmail.com> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for posting this text) and Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, This is in response to a conversation on the authenticity/ "insightfullness" of Mohammed Hanif's text that appeared in the Times of India in the Times of India -and I have appended at the end of this mail. I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's text (appended below) interesting is primarily because often when reading/learning about another place - especially through the eyes of correspondents - it is hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For weeks I have been having conversation with friends about how pakistan appears to be teetering on a brink of some sort - without really knowing that that brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the chasm already - what does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no brink, no teetering, no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. But fortunately, i have also been re-reading Slaughterhouse Five - Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden fire-bombing in WWII where, after describing the devastation of dresden as a moonscape utterly ravaged by carpet bombs, he writes "Billy's story ended very curiously in a suburb untouched by fire and explosions. The guards and americans came at nightfall to an innn which was open for business. There was candlelight. There were fires in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty tables ad chairs waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds with covers turned down upstairs." On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or Sebal's incredible Natural History of Destruction there is the tendency to abstract trite observations like "ordinary people continue with their normal lives even as the world collapses around them." I would argue that what makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is that they remind us that this IS normal life. This horror, this destruction, this banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed Hanif's text - (without placing it in the same league) - again gives us a snapshot into the normalcy of normal life in pakistan. Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in Delhi, Surat, Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - one is tempted to read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of implosion and the embarrassment of "state failure" that Indians so happily foist upon neighbouring countries. But as those living in India will readily testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter what the disaster, we are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in cricket - the endurance of the state should be given the benefit of doubt. Perhaps we could accord others in the neighbourhood the same privileges. The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends something like this : "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans could sleep in his stable that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz coffee and a little beer. Then he came out to the stable to listen to them bedding down in the straw. "Good Night Americans," he said in German, "Sleep well." best a. Ten myths about Pakistan 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, Mohammed Hanif Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did fighting India. Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not want another Musharraf. Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of years have become its biggest liability. Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and shelters for sick animals. It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan took much notice. All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him seriously. Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms From melissa_global at yahoo.com.au Mon Jan 5 23:32:37 2009 From: melissa_global at yahoo.com.au (melissa) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:02:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Palestine Message-ID: <913111.56901.qm@web52811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Please feel free to distribute these news and information sites. Walk a mile in a Palestinian's shoes in the Occupied Territories and start a new dialogue that could shift the dominant discourse from never- ending violence to creative justice. 1. A Question of Zion, by Jacqueline Rose 2. Breaking the Silence (Israeli soldiers speak out) http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/index_e.asp 3. Holyland Trust http://www.holylandtrust.org/ Including the Palestinian news network: http://www.pnn.ps/ 4. http://www.shovrimshtika.org/gallery_item_e.asp?id=53 5. The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions http://www.icahd.org/eng/ 6. Reports from the Lutheran Church http://www.elcjhl.org/palestine/conditions/ 7. The Palestine Monitor http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article14 8. Ecumenical liberation Theology Centre, Al Quds/Jerusalem http://www.sabeel.org/ SABEEL’S REFLECTION ON GAZA The Narrow Gate of Justice “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14) On Saturday, December 27, 2008, as the children of Gaza were about to leave their schools to return home, the Israeli air force carried a massive air attack against the people of Gaza. In less than 4 hours, over 150 people were killed and 200 injured – men, women, and children. By the end of the fourth day, over 390 Palestinians were killed and almost 2,000 injured. On the Israeli side, 4 were killed and no statistics are available on the number of injured. FACTS ABOUT THE GAZA STRIP: Population: 1.5 million. 75% of them are refugees. 45% of them are under 14 years. Area: 360 sq km, 139 sq miles. Population density: 4,167 people/sq Km (The highest in the world.) 80% of Gazan households live below the poverty line, subsisting on less than $3 per person a day. 80% of all Gazan families would literally starve without food aid from international agencies. The Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip, similar to that of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, started with the 1967 June war. In September 2005, the Israeli army pulled out ofGaza and removed its illegal settlements. However, the illegal Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip did not come to an end. Israel maintained its tight control over Gaza’s borders (air, land, and sea). To make things even worse, Israel imposed a siege on Gaza in June 2007, thus tightening its border restrictions and causing the humanitarian conditions to deteriorate further. Under the brutal siege, every aspect of the lives of the people of Gaza was controlled. They were totally dependent on Israel for fuel, electricity, cooking gas, medical supplies, food supplies (even flour), building material, etc. Israel made sure that the Palestinians would remain alive at barely the survival and basic subsistence level. On November 14, 2008, UN General Secretary Ban Ki Moon issued a statement that said, “The Secretary-General is concerned that food and other life saving assistance is being denied to hundreds of thousands of people, and emphasizes that measures which increase the hardship and suffering of the civilian population of the Gaza Strip as a whole are unacceptable and should cease immediately.” IMPORTANT POINTS TO REMEMBER: FIRST: A word about tahdi’a (the period of calm or truce). It is important to note that among the terms of tahdi’a was the understanding that Israel would lift the siege of the Gaza Strip, and gradually extend the truce to the West Bank. This Israel did not do. It only partially lifted the siege and allowed a trickle of vital commodities into Gaza which kept the people at the level of mere survival. Israel’s raids into the West Bank continued on a daily basis and scores of Palestinians were arrested or assassinated. The International Herald Tribune reported on December 19, 2008 that it was Hamas’ understanding that after the tahdi’a Israel would open the crossings and allow the transfer of goods that have been banned since the siege was imposed. There was never a return to the 500 – 600 truckloads of goods shipments that used to go into the Gaza Strip before the siege. “The number of trucks increased to around 90 from around 70.” The facts and figures tell the real story. Sadly, however, many western leaders have shut their ears, eyes, and mouths against the cry of the oppressed and they fell into the deceptive snares of Israel. Most of the world judges Israel by what it says and not by what it does; while they close their ears to the comprehensive and workable 2002 Peace Initiative adopted by all the Arab leaders including the Palestinians. Even Hamas has agreed to a Palestinian State within the 1967 borders as expressed to President Carter on his latest visit to Syria. SECOND: So long as Israel holds the Palestinians in general and the Gazans in particular under occupation, they (the Palestinians) have the right, according to international law, to resist the “seemingly never ending” belligerent occupation and struggle for their liberation. Israel, therefore, cannot demand from the international community sympathy and political support and from the Palestinians calm and security, while it maintains its inhuman and illegal occupation. It is only when Israel ends its occupation that it can have a legitimate right to defend its borders. Israel stands in violation of international law and is the aggressor due to its belligerent occupation. THIRD: The Arab leaders and governments can do more for peace. Many people accuse them of a conspiracy of silence. Most of the Arab people are ashamed of the positions of their governments because they have not used their resources collectively to end the occupation. Sabeel is not talking about the use of force although many of our Arab people do. We believe that the Arab governments could have contributed much more towards a resolution of the Palestine-Israel conflict through nonviolent means. Tragically, this did not happen. FOURTH: Although Sabeel wishes that Hamas and other Palestinian factions had chosen a nonviolent way to resist the Israeli siege, we feel that the disproportionate use of military force against the Gaza Strip and the number of casualties that it produced must be strongly condemned. It is a shame that once again many western leaders have failed to see the deeper issues that are involved. They chose to stand with the occupier rather than with the occupied, with the oppressor rather than the oppressed, and with the powerful rather than with the weak. It is important to continue the resistance against the belligerent occupation. But we call on our Palestinian people to abandon the armed struggle and to choose a more potent and effective way – the way of nonviolence. We can do it and we can win. The Palestinians are capable of setting an example for the rest of the world. This is what we must do; and this is what can restore to us our human pride and dignity. In fact, we must look to a world where wars, and weapons of violence and destruction would be banned and where oppressed nations would choose the higher moral ground and resist the evil of belligerent occupations by nonviolent means. We hope for a world where a reformed United Nations would never be held hostage by powerful nations, but would enjoy the freedom to establish justice for the oppressed of the world. FIFTH: We believe that the real message of the Palestinians to the world is a genuine cry for freedom and liberation. The Palestinians did not initiate the violence. The prolonged illegal Israeli occupation is the real cause for the violence in our area. Israel has shut the door on justice. The only way that can guarantee a lasting resolution of the conflict is for the United States’ new administration to dare and open the door of justice. We believe that it is the narrow gate of which Jesus Christ spoke. It is the gate that leads to a life of peace and security. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” This is the narrow gate of justice. This is the basis of international law. The way of military domination, occupation, violence, and wars is the wide gate that leads to destruction; while the gate that seems narrow and hard is the one that leads to justice, peace and security for both sides. We have tried the wide gate and it has only brought us destruction. It is high time to try the narrow gate of justice so that we might find life. Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center Jerusalem December 31, 2008 www.sabeel.org Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look. From kaksanjay at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 12:23:12 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:23:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When piracy is only self-defence Message-ID: <5c5369880901052253m6f38bd9cia9de48407e85ba74@mail.gmail.com> Europeans have been dumping nuclear waste in Somalia's seas and looting seafood. This is the context in which the 'pirates' have emerged, argues JOHANN HARI When piracy is only self-defence Johann Hari [Source: http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=4&theme=&usrsess=1&id=239043] Who imagined that in 2009, the world's governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy, backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the US to China, is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth. But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people governments are labelling as "one of the great menaces of our times" have an extraordinary story to tell, and some justice on their side. Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the "golden age of piracy", from 1650 to 1730, the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage Bluebeard that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: pirates were often saved from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can't? In his book Villains Of All Nations, historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence. If you became a merchant or navy sailor then, plucked from the docks of London's East End, young and hungry, you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the Cat O' Nine Tails. If you slacked often, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages. Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied, and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively, without torture. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls "one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the eighteenth century". They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed "quite clearly, and subversively, that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal Navy." This is why they were romantic heroes, despite being unproductive thieves. The words of one pirate from that lost age, a young British man called William Scott, should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since, and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump nuclear waste in their seas. Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died. Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury, you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention." At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. Europeans have destroyed their own fish stocks by over-exploitation, and have now moved on to Somalia's. More than $300 million worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka, 100 km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters." This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia, and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence". No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters, especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits (to be) those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." William Scott would understand. Did Europeans expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in Europe's toxic waste, and watch Europeans snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? Europeans won't act on those crimes, the only sane solution to this problem, but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 per cent of the world's oil supply, they swiftly send in the gunboats. The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." Once again, the great imperial fleets sail, but who is the robber? The Independent, London From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 13:52:20 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:52:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Snow Message-ID: <6353c690901060022v35d6492enef73d2a4538127bb@mail.gmail.com> Snow - by Radhika Koul Mummy! It is snowing! I cried. Yes, it was just like that fairy tale. Just like that dream. The picture had indeed frozen. Little snowy pearls in front of the great green conifer whirls. With frozen snow islands at the tree feet and the big brown mountain beneath. They stopped and smiled, Dazed perhaps by their own beauty. I stood there too, in open mouthed wonder, Thanking the Lord. I had finally been blessed. Blessed, as I saw the first real falling snow of my life. As I saw the true colours of my land, for once in my life. So whats the big deal, you may say. When a Kashmiri sees falling snow 13 years after she is born, it is big deal. When a Kashmiri sees that snow from the window of a hotel room and not her own doorstep, it is a big deal. When a Kashmiri is as much a tourist in Kashmir as a Canadian, it is a big deal. And when the snow that should have been the most routine part of your life comes as an out-of-world-surprise, you wonder what else you must have lost. read more at - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2009/01/snow-radhika-koul.html Radhika Koul is a high school student here in New Delhi. She can be reached at radhika.koul at gmail.com Kindly leave your comment on the blog and forward this e-mail to your friends. On behalf of Roots In Kashmir Aditya Raj Kaul From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Jan 6 18:58:30 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 18:58:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] More of Sea Piracy Message-ID: <167B7477-7380-4F4B-96D1-1E1449188205@sarai.net> dear All, Following on Sanjay's post on the somialian pirates, i am mailing a series of readings on the same. warmly Jeebesh "The Floating Dungeon: A History of the Slave Ship" To find the ghost and let them live again Marcus Rediker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I2xGTXB8tc&NR=1 Off the coast of Somalia: 'We're not pirates. These are our waters, not theirs' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/off-the-coast-of-somalia-were-not-pirates-these-are-our-waters-not-theirs-1017962.html To foreign ships, they're a scourge but Daniel Howden and Abdinasir Mohamed Guled discover that Somalia's pirates see things very differently Friday, 14 November 2008 Two boats from HMS Cumberland intercept a suspected pirate vessel in the Gulf of Aden after Russian and British forces repelled an attack on a cargo ship When Bile Wadani is not counting his money, he counts his wives. So far he has three – but he promises there will be more to come. "I didn't ever dream I would marry three wives but I have that dream now because I can get as much money as I want." As he speaks, waves can be heard crashing in the background. Bile is speaking by mobile telephone from the deck of a captured ship somewhere off the mountainous coast of northern Somalia, near the tip of the Horn of Africa. His words are interrupted by the crackle of gunfire. Bile will not reveal his exact location or identify the captured vessel as he claims he is being hunted by foreign warships. He is one of the new generation of pirates who have turned the Gulf of Aden into the most dangerous shipping lane in the world. The success of their rough and ready tactics has been such that insurers are warning that shipowners may have to use alternative routes, which would have tremendous ramifications for global trade and commodity prices. International governments are committing millions of pounds to fighting the pirates. The Royal Navy's HMS Cumberland joined forces with a Russian frigate to kill three pirates as they attempted to seize a Danish vessel in the latest incident on Tuesday. Despite the fact that warships from Denmark, France, Russia, Japan and the US have joined the Royal Navy in patrolling the gulf, little attention has been paid to the roots of the problem. Both the risks and the rewards of Bile's chosen career are colossal. And along with an increasing number of his compatriots in the anarchy of Somalia, he has chosen to embrace them. The lure of vast sums of money is transforming the coast of this country and turning the pirates into the heroes of a shattered land. Millions of dollars in ransoms are being paid by desperate ship owners – an estimated $30m (£20.5m) so far this year. That is one and a half times the annual budget for authorities in the northern region of Puntland. One captured vessel can fetch up to $2m. The epicentre of this piracy is the port town of Eyl, in the Nugal region. It is off limits to the outside world, a safe haven for the pirates and a base for their attacks. It now functions, according to residents, almost completely on the proceeds from piracy. Much of the rest of Somalia has been destroyed by the seemingly endless wars that have washed across the country in the two decades since it last had a functioning government. The capital, Mogadishu, lies mostly in ruins. In Eyl, the streets are lined with new buildings and awash with Landcruisers, laptops, satellite phones and global positioning systems. Almost everyone in Eyl has a relative or husband among the pirates. Fatima Yusuf, who has lived her whole life in Eyl, describes the intense involvement of the whole community in the fortunes of the young men who set out in crews of seven or eight armed with AK-47s and rocket launchers to take on the tankers on the high seas. The planning is rigorous, Bile insists: "When we want to kidnap a ship, we go with not more than six or seven men because we don't want to be a mob, this is a military tactic." Fatima says the people will gather to pray for the pirates and that when they set sail sacrifices are made in traditional ceremonies where a goat will be slaughtered, its throat cut." An industry has grown up around the pirates, with restaurants to feed the kidnapped crews who as potentially tradable assets must be looked after. The pirates have become glamorous figures. Like most of the girls in Eyl, Sadiya Samatar Haji wants to marry a pirate. "I'm not taking no for an answer," she says. "I'll tie the knot with a pirate man because I'll get to live in a good house with good money." Twelve-year-old Mohamed Bishar Adle, in nearby Garowe, the regional capital of Puntland, knows what he wants to do with his education. "When I finish high school, I will be a pirate man, I will work for my family and will get more money." Beyond the bravado, Bile acknowledges that the danger is increasing. He will not say how many attacks he has participated in but he does claim to have been one of the pirates who clashed with French forces in April this year after the capture and ransom of a luxury yacht. French commandoes pursued a band of Somali pirates en route to Eyl after a ransom had been paid. Bile says nine of his compatriots were taken and that only he and one other friend were able to escape. Six of those caught face prosecution in Paris after being transferred to France. He also remembers the terror of his first mission. "You don't know if it's a warship. You have to open fire and if it doesn't respond you know." Bile did not grow up dreaming of being a pirate. He comes from a family of fishermen whose livelihood was destroyed, he says, by the arrival of industrial trawlers from Europe. At some 3,300 kilometres, Somalia has the longest coastline in Africa. With a fertile upswelling where the ocean reaches Africa's Horn, the seas are rich in tuna, swordfish and shark, as well as coastal beds of lobster and valuable shrimp. With the overthrow of Siad Barre's government in 1991, the territorial waters off Somalia became a free-for-all. Trawlers from more than 16 different nations were recorded within its waters – many of them armed. EU vessels flying flags of convenience cut deals with the illegitimate authorities in Somalia, according to UN investigators. Clashes between large, foreign fishing interests and Somali fishermen in the late 1990s were the prelude to the upsurge in piracy. Bile, like many of the pirates, calls himself a "coastguard" and insists he has more right to these contested seas than the foreign forces now patrolling them. He says many of his friends' boats were destroyed in these battles and stocks of a fish known locally as "yumbi" have all but disappeared. Like many in Somalia, Bile is angry that outside powers are seeking a military solution to a more complex problem. He rejects the tag of "terrorist" and denies links to Islamic militias, like the Al-Shabab, which are in control of large areas of Somalia. He insists that the pirates would not give "one AK-47" to the Islamists. While admitting that the influx of foreign navies is making his life more dangerous, he remains defiant: "We will keep carrying out attacks. We are ready for long distance attacks as far as the coast of Yemen." Pirates Turn Villages Into Boomtowns By MOHAMED OLAD HASSAN and ELIZABETH KENNEDY http://news.aol.com/article/pirates-turn-villages-into-boomtowns/253992 AP MOGADISHU, Somalia (Nov. 19) - Somalia's increasingly brazen pirates are building sprawling stone houses, cruising in luxury cars, marrying beautiful women — even hiring caterers to prepare Western-style food for their hostages. And in an impoverished country where every public institution has crumbled, they have become heroes in the steamy coastal dens they operate from because they are the only real business in town. Armed pirates guard a beach Oct. 16 in Hobyo, Somalia. Piracy is on the rise on Somalia, a result of the nation's extreme poverty and unstable government. Pirates have pumped $30 million into Somalia's economy this year, thanks to ransoms that owners pay to get their ships back. "The pirates depend on us, and we benefit from them," said Sahra Sheik Dahir, a shop owner in Haradhere, the nearest village to where a hijacked Saudi Arabian supertanker carrying $100 million in crude was anchored Wednesday. These boomtowns are all the more shocking in light of Somalia's violence and poverty: Radical Islamists control most of the country's south, meting out lashings and stonings for accused criminals. There has been no effective central government in nearly 20 years, plunging this arid African country into chaos. Life expectancy is just 46 years; a quarter of children die before they reach 5. But in northern coastal towns like Haradhere, Eyl and Bossaso, the pirate economy is thriving thanks to the money pouring in from pirate ransoms that have reached $30 million this year alone. "There are more shops and business is booming because of the piracy," said Sugule Dahir, who runs a clothing shop in Eyl. "Internet cafes and telephone shops have opened, and people are just happier than before." In Haradhere, residents came out in droves to celebrate as the looming oil ship came into focus this week off the country's lawless coast. Businessmen gathered cigarettes, food and cold bottles of orange soda, setting up kiosks for the pirates who come to shore to resupply almost daily. Dahir said she even started a layaway plan for them. "They always take things without paying and we put them into the book of debts," she told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "Later, when they get the ransom money, they pay us a lot." Residents make sure the pirates are well-stocked in khat, a popular narcotic leaf, and aren't afraid to gouge a bit when it comes to the pirates' deep pockets. Dangerous Waters Tian Yu 8: In this photograph supplied by the U.S. Navy, Somali pirates hold the crew of a Chinese fishing vessel hostage as the ship passes through the Indian Ocean on Nov. 17. The ship was seized Nov. 16 and was forced to anchor off the Somali coast. "I can buy a packet of cigarettes for about $1 but I will charge the pirate $1.30," said Abdulqadir Omar, an Eyl resident. While pirate villages used to have houses made of corrugated iron sheets, now, there are stately looking homes made of sturdy, white stones. "Regardless of how the money is coming in, legally or illegally, I can say it has started a life in our town," said Shamso Moalim, a 36-year- old mother of five in Haradhere. "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy." The attackers generally treat their hostages well in anticipation of a big payday, hiring caterers on shore to cook spaghetti, grilled fish and roasted meat that will appeal to Western palates. Somali Pirates Strike Again Pirates hijacked another cargo ship the coast of Somalia making it the 7th ship to be hijacked in less than two weeks. Shelia MacVicar reports. And when the payday comes, the money sometimes literally falls from the sky. Pirates say the ransom arrives in burlap sacks, sometimes dropped from buzzing helicopters, or in waterproof suitcases loaded onto skiffs in the roiling, shark-infested sea. "The oldest man on the ship always takes the responsibility of collecting the money, because we see it as very risky, and he gets some extra payment for his service later," Aden Yusuf, a pirate in Eyl, told AP over VHF radio. The pirates use money-counting machines — the same technology seen at foreign exchange bureaus worldwide — to ensure the cash is real. All payments are done in cash because Somalia has no functioning banking system. "Getting this equipment is easy for us, we have business connections with people in Dubai, Nairobi, Djibouti and other areas," Yusuf said. "So we send them money and they send us what we want." Despite a beefed-up international presence, the pirates continue to seize ships, moving further out to sea and demanding ever-larger ransoms. The pirates operate mostly from the semiautonomous Puntland region, where local lawmakers have been accused of helping them and taking a cut of the ransoms. For the most part, however, the regional officials say they have no power to stop piracy. Meanwhile, towns that once were eroded by years of poverty and chaos are now bustling with restaurants, Land Cruisers and Internet cafes. Residents also use their gains to buy generators — allowing full days of electricity, once an unimaginable luxury in Somalia. There are no reliable estimates of the number of pirates operating in Somalia, but they number in the thousands. And though the bandits do sometimes get nabbed, piracy is generally considered a sure bet to a better life. NATO and the U.S. Navy say they can't be everywhere, and American officials are urging ships to hire private security. Warships patrolling off Somalia have succeeded in stopping some pirate attacks. But military assaults to wrest back a ship are highly risky and, up to now, uncommon. Associated Press writers Mohamed Olad Hassan reported from Mogadishu and Elizabeth Kennedy from Nairobi, Kenya. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. 2008-11-19 10:24:20 ALSO SEE: The Politics of Pirates (Should Johnny Depp be a Founding Father?) http://engagepodcast.blogspot.com/2008/05/politics-of-pirates-should-johnny-depp.html VIDEO ON PETER LINEBAUGH Magna Carta Manifesto 1 of 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDg2p3krPKQ&feature=related "The Floating Dungeon: A History of the Slave Ship" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I2xGTXB8tc&NR=1 Democratic Pirates The History of Decapitating Commoners by Nic Veroli From the Oct 11 – Oct 17, 2001 issue The Many-Headed Hydra: Sailors, Slaves, Commoners, and the Hidden History of the Revolutionary Atlantic by Peter Linebaugh and Markus Rediker (Beacon Press) $18 The history of the movement against neoliberal globalization did not start in 1999 in Seattle. It did not even start on January 1, 1994, that legendary day when "subcommandante insurgente" Marcos led an army of Zapatista indios down the slopes of Chiapas' mountains into battle against the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). No, the war on neoliberal globalization began much earlier--on the afternoon of July 25, 1609, on an English ship. Such is the thesis of Peter Linebaugh and Markus Rediker, probably two of the most daring American historians writing today. Their new book chronicles the history of the first two centuries in the history of what they call "the Atlantic working class," from the birth of capitalism in the early 17th century to the aftermath of the American and French revolutions in the early 18th and 19th centuries. That is the "many-headed hydra" they invoke: a planetary monster with innumerable heads in all parts of the world, linked together by a diaphanous, almost intangible trunk. According to Linebaugh and Rediker, the revolt against capitalist globalization begins not simply as a struggle against property-title- clutching aristocrats, who in early modern times were trying to privatize lands held in common by English peasants. With a far more cosmopolitan vision than even Karl Marx, they argue that this revolt was also immediately global in scope, the product of transatlantic coalitions between European commoners, African slaves, and Native American societies. The different constituencies were often brought together and kept in contact with each other by ethnically heterogenous crews of sailors, who glided from one end of the world to the other on ships that recalled a prison chain gang rather than merry shipmates. Those sailors frequently mutinied, threw their officers overboard, or worse, and joyfully converted to the faith of the pirate: Eat well, drink well, and above all, make decisions on every aspect of life "in common" or, as we would say today, democratically. You'll have to read the book to find out what happened on that famous afternoon in July, 1609. Suffice it to say that neither then nor afterward did things always go smoothly for this "many-headed hydra" of a revolt. Indeed, the name itself was bestowed upon this multi- ethnic assemblage of peoples by elite intellectuals such as Francis Bacon and Walter Raleigh, who eagerly counseled their lords to decapitate the hydra whenever it reared one of its ugly heads. Apparently, then as now, these intellectuals were unaware of the mythical hydra's magical property: If ever one of its heads is cut off, it regenerates itself almost immediately. Today, the hydra is again under attack. The Republicans in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and in the various right-wing think tanks are out to get the democratic hydra. Taking advantage of the recent terrorist attacks--acts which speak as much of the twistedness of its perpetrators as they do of the desperation of hundreds of millions of dispossessed peoples around the world--these stone-hearted crocodiles are using the shock and grief of many of us here in the States to put forward an agenda that surpasses in folly even the most obnoxious fantasies of Dr. Strangelove. In less than a month, conservatives have managed to take back the lead in defining the issues on the public agenda. From talking about the sweatshops, unemployment, and the consequences of a recession for working people, we have all been brought into dismal speculations on the possibility of World War III, how many of our civil liberties we'd have to give up for "security" at home, and the effects of the recession on the wealthy. But neither a war abroad nor more police at home is going to make the problem go away: Global environmental degradation and poverty are not made better by uranium-depleted bullets or more phone taps. So has the anti-capitalist hydra been decapitated in one fell swoop? No, for as Linebaugh and Rediker put it: "The globalizing powers have a long reach and endless patience. Yet the planetary wanderers do not forget, and they are ever ready from Africa to the Caribbean to Seattle to resist slavery and restore the commons." The history of the movement against neoliberal globalization did not start in 1999 in Seattle. It did not even start on January 1, 1994, that legendary day when "subcommandante insurgente" Marcos led an army of Zapatista indios down the slopes of Chiapas' mountains into battle against the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). No, the war on neoliberal globalization began much earlier--on the afternoon of July 25, 1609, on an English ship. Such is the thesis of Peter Linebaugh and Markus Rediker, probably two of the most daring American historians writing today. Their new book chronicles the history of the first two centuries in the history of what they call "the Atlantic working class," from the birth of capitalism in the early 17th century to the aftermath of the American and French revolutions in the early 18th and 19th centuries. That is the "many-headed hydra" they invoke: a planetary monster with innumerable heads in all parts of the world, linked together by a diaphanous, almost intangible trunk. According to Linebaugh and Rediker, the revolt against capitalist globalization begins not simply as a struggle against property-title- clutching aristocrats, who in early modern times were trying to privatize lands held in common by English peasants. With a far more cosmopolitan vision than even Karl Marx, they argue that this revolt was also immediately global in scope, the product of transatlantic coalitions between European commoners, African slaves, and Native American societies. The different constituencies were often brought together and kept in contact with each other by ethnically heterogenous crews of sailors, who glided from one end of the world to the other on ships that recalled a prison chain gang rather than merry shipmates. Those sailors frequently mutinied, threw their officers overboard, or worse, and joyfully converted to the faith of the pirate: Eat well, drink well, and above all, make decisions on every aspect of life "in common" or, as we would say today, democratically. You'll have to read the book to find out what happened on that famous afternoon in July, 1609. Suffice it to say that neither then nor afterward did things always go smoothly for this "many-headed hydra" of a revolt. Indeed, the name itself was bestowed upon this multi- ethnic assemblage of peoples by elite intellectuals such as Francis Bacon and Walter Raleigh, who eagerly counseled their lords to decapitate the hydra whenever it reared one of its ugly heads. Apparently, then as now, these intellectuals were unaware of the mythical hydra's magical property: If ever one of its heads is cut off, it regenerates itself almost immediately. Today, the hydra is again under attack. The Republicans in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and in the various right-wing think tanks are out to get the democratic hydra. Taking advantage of the recent terrorist attacks--acts which speak as much of the twistedness of its perpetrators as they do of the desperation of hundreds of millions of dispossessed peoples around the world--these stone-hearted crocodiles are using the shock and grief of many of us here in the States to put forward an agenda that surpasses in folly even the most obnoxious fantasies of Dr. Strangelove. In less than a month, conservatives have managed to take back the lead in defining the issues on the public agenda. From talking about the sweatshops, unemployment, and the consequences of a recession for working people, we have all been brought into dismal speculations on the possibility of World War III, how many of our civil liberties we'd have to give up for "security" at home, and the effects of the recession on the wealthy. But neither a war abroad nor more police at home is going to make the problem go away: Global environmental degradation and poverty are not made better by uranium-depleted bullets or more phone taps. So has the anti-capitalist hydra been decapitated in one fell swoop? No, for as Linebaugh and Rediker put it: "The globalizing powers have a long reach and endless patience. Yet the planetary wanderers do not forget, and they are ever ready from Africa to the Caribbean to Seattle to resist slavery and restore the commons." Everyone in favor, say yargh! Some of the world's earliest democracies flourished aboard pirate ships http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/11/everyone_in_favor_say_yargh?mode=PF By Joanna Weiss | May 11, 2008 AS A CHILD, Peter Leeson was pirate-obsessed. He cherished the ruby- eyed skull ring he got at Disney World, after riding Pirates of the Caribbean. He took up a collection of coconut pirate heads. He lapped up the pirate themes in "Goonies." And when he grew up to be an economics professor, and started studying pirate society, he found a new excuse for admiration. Pirates, it turns out, were pioneers of democracy. Presidential candidates, take note: Long before they made their way into the workings of modern government, the democratic tenets we hold so dear were used to great effect on pirate ships. Checks and balances. Social insurance. Freedom of expression. So Leeson, an economics professor at George Mason University, will argue in his upcoming book, "The Invisible Hook: The Hidden Economics of Pirates." Yes, those stereotypically lawless rum-chuggers turned out to be ardent democrats. And in their strange enlightenment, Leeson sees the answer to a riddle about human nature, worthy of "Lord of the Flies" or an early episode of "Lost." In the absence of government and law enforcement, what becomes of a band of men with a noted criminal streak? Do they descend into violence and chaos? The pirates who roamed the seas in the late 17th and early 18th centuries developed a floating civilization that, in terms of political philosophy, was well ahead of its time. The notion of checks and balances, in which each branch of government limits the other's power, emerged in England in the Glorious Revolution of 1688. But by the 1670s, and likely before, pirates were developing democratic charters, establishing balance of power on their ships, and developing a nascent form of worker's compensation: A lost limb entitled one to payment from the booty, more or less depending on whether it was a right arm, a left arm, or a leg. The idea of enlightened piracy is strange swill to swallow for those steeped in a pop culture version of the pirate - chaos on the high seas, drinking and pillaging, damsels forced onto the plank. Sure, there's something about the independence of piracy that still speaks to people today. (Even the founders of International Talk Like a Pirate Day acknowledge that there is, in people who love to say "Aargh," a yearning for a certain kind of freedom.) But it turns out that pirate life was more than just greedy rebellion. It offers insights into the nature of democracy and the reasons it might emerge - as a natural state of being, or a rational response to a much less pleasant way of life. To Leeson, pirate democracy was an institution born of necessity. In one successful cruise, a pirate could take home what a merchant sailor earned in 50 years. Yet a business enterprise made up of the violent and lawless was clearly problematic: piracy required common action and mutual trust. And pirates couldn't rely on a government to set the rules. Some think that "without government, where would we be?" Leeson says. "But what pirates really show is, no, it's just common sense. You have an incentive to try to create rules to make society get along. And that's just as important to pirates as it is to anybody else." But Marcus Rediker, the author of the pirate histories "Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" and "Villains of All Nations," sees pirate democracy less as a means for order than as a political statement, a pointed reaction to the working sailor's life. When pirates roamed the seas, Rediker says, it was the law-abiding merchant ships that were run like miniature tyrannies. Captains held absolute power. Floggings were routine and often deadly. When pirates recruited sailors from the ships they pillaged, they opened a window to a different kind of society - far from the one the working-class sailors would otherwise find on land or sea. Rediker argues that pirate democracy "is not about human nature at all. It's about the specific experience of sailors and the way that they wanted to imagine a better world." Piracy, says Rediker, a history professor at the University of Pittsburgh, was "a fascinating, almost utopian kind of experiment." Indeed, he says, pirate democracy was purer than what was practiced in Athens: The Greeks didn't give slaves the vote, but pirates offered the right to everyone, black or white. (It's probably also safe to say that pirates didn't have superdelegates.) Before each voyage, the crew elected a captain who could be deposed at any time, as well as a quartermaster whose main purpose was to make sure the captain didn't have too much power. A written charter outlined ship rules, which tended to prohibit theft and violence aboard and set strict rules for the presence of women. (Contrary to popular myth, Leeson, says, pirates usually set limits on drinking. "A drunken pirate crew," he points out, "would be less effective than a sober crew.") Pirates even conducted a version of a fair trial, Rediker says, when determining the fate of captured captains. If any pirate on board knew the man from his merchant ship days, he could testify about his treatment. A captain who turned out to be kind was sometimes spared his life. And in a precursor of our own democratic love of political satire, pirates wrote coarse, hilarious plays that mocked the upper classes' criminal justice system. Their mockery, and their gallows humor, reflected the risks they faced. The pirates' democratic experiment, like piracy itself, turned out to be short-lived. When the buccaneers of the late 1600s attacked Spanish trade ships, Rediker says, the British navy looked the other way. But when pirates began to attack British and American ships in the early 1700s, the British naval crackdown was swift and fierce. By 1730, the traditional pirate life was essentially done. And, scholarly treatises aside, some of its specifics have been lost in the popular imagination. The current image of the pirate is colored more by the Robert Newton movies of the 1950s, or the rantings of Captain Hook, or - to a newer generation - the Keith Richards stylings of Johnny Depp. Even in their own time, the pirates' democratic experiment was quickly forgotten, a culture washed away. It would be another half a century, Leeson says, before James Madison would start to devise a US Constitution. And there's no evidence, he says, that the forefathers of British and American democracy took any of their cues from pirate ships. "The Federalists never refer back to pirates," he says. "I've looked." Joanna Weiss covers TV and pop culture for the Globe. She can be reached at weiss at globe.com. © Copyright 2008 The New York Times Compan From alexanderaugust at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 19:02:34 2009 From: alexanderaugust at gmail.com (Alexander Keefe) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:32:34 -0600 Subject: [Reader-list] More of Sea Piracy In-Reply-To: <167B7477-7380-4F4B-96D1-1E1449188205@sarai.net> References: <167B7477-7380-4F4B-96D1-1E1449188205@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear all, For those interested in this issue and/or new media cartography, the live piracy map: http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=89 Peace and love in 2009, Alex On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear All, > > Following on Sanjay's post on the somialian pirates, i am mailing a > series of readings on the same. > > warmly > > Jeebesh > > > > "The Floating Dungeon: A History of the Slave Ship" > > To find the ghost and let them live again Marcus Rediker > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I2xGTXB8tc&NR=1 > > > > Off the coast of Somalia: 'We're not pirates. These are our waters, > not theirs' > > > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/off-the-coast-of-somalia-were-not-pirates-these-are-our-waters-not-theirs-1017962.html > > To foreign ships, they're a scourge but Daniel Howden and Abdinasir > Mohamed Guled discover that Somalia's pirates see things very > differently > > Friday, 14 November 2008 > Two boats from HMS Cumberland intercept a suspected pirate vessel in > the Gulf of Aden after Russian and British forces repelled an attack > on a cargo ship > > When Bile Wadani is not counting his money, he counts his wives. So > far he has three – but he promises there will be more to come. "I > didn't ever dream I would marry three wives but I have that dream now > because I can get as much money as I want." > > As he speaks, waves can be heard crashing in the background. Bile is > speaking by mobile telephone from the deck of a captured ship > somewhere off the mountainous coast of northern Somalia, near the tip > of the Horn of Africa. His words are interrupted by the crackle of > gunfire. > > Bile will not reveal his exact location or identify the captured > vessel as he claims he is being hunted by foreign warships. > > He is one of the new generation of pirates who have turned the Gulf of > Aden into the most dangerous shipping lane in the world. The success > of their rough and ready tactics has been such that insurers are > warning that shipowners may have to use alternative routes, which > would have tremendous ramifications for global trade and commodity > prices. > > International governments are committing millions of pounds to > fighting the pirates. The Royal Navy's HMS Cumberland joined forces > with a Russian frigate to kill three pirates as they attempted to > seize a Danish vessel in the latest incident on Tuesday. > > Despite the fact that warships from Denmark, France, Russia, Japan and > the US have joined the Royal Navy in patrolling the gulf, little > attention has been paid to the roots of the problem. > > Both the risks and the rewards of Bile's chosen career are colossal. > And along with an increasing number of his compatriots in the anarchy > of Somalia, he has chosen to embrace them. The lure of vast sums of > money is transforming the coast of this country and turning the > pirates into the heroes of a shattered land. > > Millions of dollars in ransoms are being paid by desperate ship owners > – an estimated $30m (£20.5m) so far this year. That is one and a half > times the annual budget for authorities in the northern region of > Puntland. One captured vessel can fetch up to $2m. > > The epicentre of this piracy is the port town of Eyl, in the Nugal > region. It is off limits to the outside world, a safe haven for the > pirates and a base for their attacks. It now functions, according to > residents, almost completely on the proceeds from piracy. > > Much of the rest of Somalia has been destroyed by the seemingly > endless wars that have washed across the country in the two decades > since it last had a functioning government. The capital, Mogadishu, > lies mostly in ruins. > > In Eyl, the streets are lined with new buildings and awash with > Landcruisers, laptops, satellite phones and global positioning systems. > > Almost everyone in Eyl has a relative or husband among the pirates. > Fatima Yusuf, who has lived her whole life in Eyl, describes the > intense involvement of the whole community in the fortunes of the > young men who set out in crews of seven or eight armed with AK-47s and > rocket launchers to take on the tankers on the high seas. > > The planning is rigorous, Bile insists: "When we want to kidnap a > ship, we go with not more than six or seven men because we don't want > to be a mob, this is a military tactic." > > Fatima says the people will gather to pray for the pirates and that > when they set sail sacrifices are made in traditional ceremonies where > a goat will be slaughtered, its throat cut." > > An industry has grown up around the pirates, with restaurants to feed > the kidnapped crews who as potentially tradable assets must be looked > after. The pirates have become glamorous figures. Like most of the > girls in Eyl, Sadiya Samatar Haji wants to marry a pirate. "I'm not > taking no for an answer," she says. "I'll tie the knot with a pirate > man because I'll get to live in a good house with good money." > > Twelve-year-old Mohamed Bishar Adle, in nearby Garowe, the regional > capital of Puntland, knows what he wants to do with his education. > "When I finish high school, I will be a pirate man, I will work for my > family and will get more money." > > Beyond the bravado, Bile acknowledges that the danger is increasing. > He will not say how many attacks he has participated in but he does > claim to have been one of the pirates who clashed with French forces > in April this year after the capture and ransom of a luxury yacht. > French commandoes pursued a band of Somali pirates en route to Eyl > after a ransom had been paid. Bile says nine of his compatriots were > taken and that only he and one other friend were able to escape. Six > of those caught face prosecution in Paris after being transferred to > France. > > He also remembers the terror of his first mission. "You don't know if > it's a warship. You have to open fire and if it doesn't respond you > know." > > Bile did not grow up dreaming of being a pirate. He comes from a > family of fishermen whose livelihood was destroyed, he says, by the > arrival of industrial trawlers from Europe. > > At some 3,300 kilometres, Somalia has the longest coastline in Africa. > With a fertile upswelling where the ocean reaches Africa's Horn, the > seas are rich in tuna, swordfish and shark, as well as coastal beds of > lobster and valuable shrimp. > > With the overthrow of Siad Barre's government in 1991, the territorial > waters off Somalia became a free-for-all. Trawlers from more than 16 > different nations were recorded within its waters – many of them > armed. EU vessels flying flags of convenience cut deals with the > illegitimate authorities in Somalia, according to UN investigators. > > Clashes between large, foreign fishing interests and Somali fishermen > in the late 1990s were the prelude to the upsurge in piracy. > > Bile, like many of the pirates, calls himself a "coastguard" and > insists he has more right to these contested seas than the foreign > forces now patrolling them. He says many of his friends' boats were > destroyed in these battles and stocks of a fish known locally as > "yumbi" have all but disappeared. > > Like many in Somalia, Bile is angry that outside powers are seeking a > military solution to a more complex problem. He rejects the tag of > "terrorist" and denies links to Islamic militias, like the Al-Shabab, > which are in control of large areas of Somalia. He insists that the > pirates would not give "one AK-47" to the Islamists. > > While admitting that the influx of foreign navies is making his life > more dangerous, he remains defiant: "We will keep carrying out > attacks. We are ready for long distance attacks as far as the coast of > Yemen." > > > > Pirates Turn Villages Into Boomtowns > By MOHAMED OLAD HASSAN and ELIZABETH KENNEDY > http://news.aol.com/article/pirates-turn-villages-into-boomtowns/253992 > > AP > > MOGADISHU, Somalia (Nov. 19) - Somalia's increasingly brazen pirates > are building sprawling stone houses, cruising in luxury cars, marrying > beautiful women — even hiring caterers to prepare Western-style food > for their hostages. > And in an impoverished country where every public institution has > crumbled, they have become heroes in the steamy coastal dens they > operate from because they are the only real business in town. > Armed pirates guard a beach Oct. 16 in Hobyo, Somalia. Piracy is on > the rise on Somalia, a result of the nation's extreme poverty and > unstable government. Pirates have pumped $30 million into Somalia's > economy this year, thanks to ransoms that owners pay to get their > ships back. > > "The pirates depend on us, and we benefit from them," said Sahra Sheik > Dahir, a shop owner in Haradhere, the nearest village to where a > hijacked Saudi Arabian supertanker carrying $100 million in crude was > anchored Wednesday. > These boomtowns are all the more shocking in light of Somalia's > violence and poverty: Radical Islamists control most of the country's > south, meting out lashings and stonings for accused criminals. There > has been no effective central government in nearly 20 years, plunging > this arid African country into chaos. > Life expectancy is just 46 years; a quarter of children die before > they reach 5. > But in northern coastal towns like Haradhere, Eyl and Bossaso, the > pirate economy is thriving thanks to the money pouring in from pirate > ransoms that have reached $30 million this year alone. > "There are more shops and business is booming because of the piracy," > said Sugule Dahir, who runs a clothing shop in Eyl. "Internet cafes > and telephone shops have opened, and people are just happier than > before." > In Haradhere, residents came out in droves to celebrate as the looming > oil ship came into focus this week off the country's lawless coast. > Businessmen gathered cigarettes, food and cold bottles of orange soda, > setting up kiosks for the pirates who come to shore to resupply almost > daily. > Dahir said she even started a layaway plan for them. > "They always take things without paying and we put them into the book > of debts," she told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. > "Later, when they get the ransom money, they pay us a lot." > Residents make sure the pirates are well-stocked in khat, a popular > narcotic leaf, and aren't afraid to gouge a bit when it comes to the > pirates' deep pockets. > Dangerous Waters > Tian Yu 8: In this photograph supplied by the U.S. Navy, Somali > pirates hold the crew of a Chinese fishing vessel hostage as the ship > passes through the Indian Ocean on Nov. 17. The ship was seized Nov. > 16 and was forced to anchor off the Somali coast. > "I can buy a packet of cigarettes for about $1 but I will charge the > pirate $1.30," said Abdulqadir Omar, an Eyl resident. > While pirate villages used to have houses made of corrugated iron > sheets, now, there are stately looking homes made of sturdy, white > stones. > "Regardless of how the money is coming in, legally or illegally, I can > say it has started a life in our town," said Shamso Moalim, a 36-year- > old mother of five in Haradhere. > "Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic > schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are > happy." > The attackers generally treat their hostages well in anticipation of a > big payday, hiring caterers on shore to cook spaghetti, grilled fish > and roasted meat that will appeal to Western palates. > Somali Pirates Strike Again > Pirates hijacked another cargo ship the coast of Somalia making it the > 7th ship to be hijacked in less than two weeks. Shelia MacVicar reports. > And when the payday comes, the money sometimes literally falls from > the sky. > Pirates say the ransom arrives in burlap sacks, sometimes dropped from > buzzing helicopters, or in waterproof suitcases loaded onto skiffs in > the roiling, shark-infested sea. > "The oldest man on the ship always takes the responsibility of > collecting the money, because we see it as very risky, and he gets > some extra payment for his service later," Aden Yusuf, a pirate in > Eyl, told AP over VHF radio. > The pirates use money-counting machines — the same technology seen at > foreign exchange bureaus worldwide — to ensure the cash is real. All > payments are done in cash because Somalia has no functioning banking > system. > "Getting this equipment is easy for us, we have business connections > with people in Dubai, Nairobi, Djibouti and other areas," Yusuf said. > "So we send them money and they send us what we want." > Despite a beefed-up international presence, the pirates continue to > seize ships, moving further out to sea and demanding ever-larger > ransoms. The pirates operate mostly from the semiautonomous Puntland > region, where local lawmakers have been accused of helping them and > taking a cut of the ransoms. > For the most part, however, the regional officials say they have no > power to stop piracy. > Meanwhile, towns that once were eroded by years of poverty and chaos > are now bustling with restaurants, Land Cruisers and Internet cafes. > Residents also use their gains to buy generators — allowing full days > of electricity, once an unimaginable luxury in Somalia. > There are no reliable estimates of the number of pirates operating in > Somalia, but they number in the thousands. And though the bandits do > sometimes get nabbed, piracy is generally considered a sure bet to a > better life. > NATO and the U.S. Navy say they can't be everywhere, and American > officials are urging ships to hire private security. Warships > patrolling off Somalia have succeeded in stopping some pirate attacks. > But military assaults to wrest back a ship are highly risky and, up to > now, uncommon. > Associated Press writers Mohamed Olad Hassan reported from Mogadishu > and Elizabeth Kennedy from Nairobi, Kenya. > Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the > AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise > distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated > Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. > 2008-11-19 10:24:20 > > > > ALSO SEE: The Politics of Pirates (Should Johnny Depp be a Founding > Father?) > > > http://engagepodcast.blogspot.com/2008/05/politics-of-pirates-should-johnny-depp.html > > > VIDEO ON PETER LINEBAUGH > > Magna Carta Manifesto 1 of 8 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDg2p3krPKQ&feature=related > > > > "The Floating Dungeon: A History of the Slave Ship" > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I2xGTXB8tc&NR=1 > > > > Democratic Pirates > The History of Decapitating Commoners > by Nic Veroli > > From the Oct 11 – Oct 17, 2001 issue > > The Many-Headed Hydra: Sailors, Slaves, Commoners, and the Hidden > History of the Revolutionary Atlantic by Peter Linebaugh and Markus > Rediker > (Beacon Press) $18 > > The history of the movement against neoliberal globalization did not > start in 1999 in Seattle. It did not even start on January 1, 1994, > that legendary day when "subcommandante insurgente" Marcos led an army > of Zapatista indios down the slopes of Chiapas' mountains into battle > against the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). No, the war > on neoliberal globalization began much earlier--on the afternoon of > July 25, 1609, on an English ship. > > Such is the thesis of Peter Linebaugh and Markus Rediker, probably two > of the most daring American historians writing today. Their new book > chronicles the history of the first two centuries in the history of > what they call "the Atlantic working class," from the birth of > capitalism in the early 17th century to the aftermath of the American > and French revolutions in the early 18th and 19th centuries. That is > the "many-headed hydra" they invoke: a planetary monster with > innumerable heads in all parts of the world, linked together by a > diaphanous, almost intangible trunk. > > According to Linebaugh and Rediker, the revolt against capitalist > globalization begins not simply as a struggle against property-title- > clutching aristocrats, who in early modern times were trying to > privatize lands held in common by English peasants. With a far more > cosmopolitan vision than even Karl Marx, they argue that this revolt > was also immediately global in scope, the product of transatlantic > coalitions between European commoners, African slaves, and Native > American societies. > > The different constituencies were often brought together and kept in > contact with each other by ethnically heterogenous crews of sailors, > who glided from one end of the world to the other on ships that > recalled a prison chain gang rather than merry shipmates. Those > sailors frequently mutinied, threw their officers overboard, or worse, > and joyfully converted to the faith of the pirate: Eat well, drink > well, and above all, make decisions on every aspect of life "in > common" or, as we would say today, democratically. > > You'll have to read the book to find out what happened on that famous > afternoon in July, 1609. Suffice it to say that neither then nor > afterward did things always go smoothly for this "many-headed hydra" > of a revolt. Indeed, the name itself was bestowed upon this multi- > ethnic assemblage of peoples by elite intellectuals such as Francis > Bacon and Walter Raleigh, who eagerly counseled their lords to > decapitate the hydra whenever it reared one of its ugly heads. > Apparently, then as now, these intellectuals were unaware of the > mythical hydra's magical property: If ever one of its heads is cut > off, it regenerates itself almost immediately. > > Today, the hydra is again under attack. The Republicans in the White > House, on Capitol Hill, and in the various right-wing think tanks are > out to get the democratic hydra. Taking advantage of the recent > terrorist attacks--acts which speak as much of the twistedness of its > perpetrators as they do of the desperation of hundreds of millions of > dispossessed peoples around the world--these stone-hearted crocodiles > are using the shock and grief of many of us here in the States to put > forward an agenda that surpasses in folly even the most obnoxious > fantasies of Dr. Strangelove. In less than a month, conservatives have > managed to take back the lead in defining the issues on the public > agenda. From talking about the sweatshops, unemployment, and the > consequences of a recession for working people, we have all been > brought into dismal speculations on the possibility of World War III, > how many of our civil liberties we'd have to give up for "security" at > home, and the effects of the recession on the wealthy. > > But neither a war abroad nor more police at home is going to make the > problem go away: Global environmental degradation and poverty are not > made better by uranium-depleted bullets or more phone taps. > > So has the anti-capitalist hydra been decapitated in one fell swoop? > No, for as Linebaugh and Rediker put it: "The globalizing powers have > a long reach and endless patience. Yet the planetary wanderers do not > forget, and they are ever ready from Africa to the Caribbean to > Seattle to resist slavery and restore the commons." > > The history of the movement against neoliberal globalization did not > start in 1999 in Seattle. It did not even start on January 1, 1994, > that legendary day when "subcommandante insurgente" Marcos led an army > of Zapatista indios down the slopes of Chiapas' mountains into battle > against the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). No, the war > on neoliberal globalization began much earlier--on the afternoon of > July 25, 1609, on an English ship. > > Such is the thesis of Peter Linebaugh and Markus Rediker, probably two > of the most daring American historians writing today. Their new book > chronicles the history of the first two centuries in the history of > what they call "the Atlantic working class," from the birth of > capitalism in the early 17th century to the aftermath of the American > and French revolutions in the early 18th and 19th centuries. That is > the "many-headed hydra" they invoke: a planetary monster with > innumerable heads in all parts of the world, linked together by a > diaphanous, almost intangible trunk. > > According to Linebaugh and Rediker, the revolt against capitalist > globalization begins not simply as a struggle against property-title- > clutching aristocrats, who in early modern times were trying to > privatize lands held in common by English peasants. With a far more > cosmopolitan vision than even Karl Marx, they argue that this revolt > was also immediately global in scope, the product of transatlantic > coalitions between European commoners, African slaves, and Native > American societies. > > The different constituencies were often brought together and kept in > contact with each other by ethnically heterogenous crews of sailors, > who glided from one end of the world to the other on ships that > recalled a prison chain gang rather than merry shipmates. Those > sailors frequently mutinied, threw their officers overboard, or worse, > and joyfully converted to the faith of the pirate: Eat well, drink > well, and above all, make decisions on every aspect of life "in > common" or, as we would say today, democratically. > > You'll have to read the book to find out what happened on that famous > afternoon in July, 1609. Suffice it to say that neither then nor > afterward did things always go smoothly for this "many-headed hydra" > of a revolt. Indeed, the name itself was bestowed upon this multi- > ethnic assemblage of peoples by elite intellectuals such as Francis > Bacon and Walter Raleigh, who eagerly counseled their lords to > decapitate the hydra whenever it reared one of its ugly heads. > Apparently, then as now, these intellectuals were unaware of the > mythical hydra's magical property: If ever one of its heads is cut > off, it regenerates itself almost immediately. > > Today, the hydra is again under attack. The Republicans in the White > House, on Capitol Hill, and in the various right-wing think tanks are > out to get the democratic hydra. Taking advantage of the recent > terrorist attacks--acts which speak as much of the twistedness of its > perpetrators as they do of the desperation of hundreds of millions of > dispossessed peoples around the world--these stone-hearted crocodiles > are using the shock and grief of many of us here in the States to put > forward an agenda that surpasses in folly even the most obnoxious > fantasies of Dr. Strangelove. In less than a month, conservatives have > managed to take back the lead in defining the issues on the public > agenda. From talking about the sweatshops, unemployment, and the > consequences of a recession for working people, we have all been > brought into dismal speculations on the possibility of World War III, > how many of our civil liberties we'd have to give up for "security" at > home, and the effects of the recession on the wealthy. > > But neither a war abroad nor more police at home is going to make the > problem go away: Global environmental degradation and poverty are not > made better by uranium-depleted bullets or more phone taps. > > So has the anti-capitalist hydra been decapitated in one fell swoop? > No, for as Linebaugh and Rediker put it: "The globalizing powers have > a long reach and endless patience. Yet the planetary wanderers do not > forget, and they are ever ready from Africa to the Caribbean to > Seattle to resist slavery and restore the commons." > > > > Everyone in favor, say yargh! > > Some of the world's earliest democracies flourished aboard pirate ships > > > http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/05/11/everyone_in_favor_say_yargh?mode=PF > > By Joanna Weiss | May 11, 2008 > > AS A CHILD, Peter Leeson was pirate-obsessed. He cherished the ruby- > eyed skull ring he got at Disney World, after riding Pirates of the > Caribbean. He took up a collection of coconut pirate heads. He lapped > up the pirate themes in "Goonies." And when he grew up to be an > economics professor, and started studying pirate society, he found a > new excuse for admiration. Pirates, it turns out, were pioneers of > democracy. > > Presidential candidates, take note: Long before they made their way > into the workings of modern government, the democratic tenets we hold > so dear were used to great effect on pirate ships. Checks and > balances. Social insurance. Freedom of expression. So Leeson, an > economics professor at George Mason University, will argue in his > upcoming book, "The Invisible Hook: The Hidden Economics of Pirates." > > Yes, those stereotypically lawless rum-chuggers turned out to be > ardent democrats. And in their strange enlightenment, Leeson sees the > answer to a riddle about human nature, worthy of "Lord of the Flies" > or an early episode of "Lost." In the absence of government and law > enforcement, what becomes of a band of men with a noted criminal > streak? Do they descend into violence and chaos? > > The pirates who roamed the seas in the late 17th and early 18th > centuries developed a floating civilization that, in terms of > political philosophy, was well ahead of its time. The notion of checks > and balances, in which each branch of government limits the other's > power, emerged in England in the Glorious Revolution of 1688. But by > the 1670s, and likely before, pirates were developing democratic > charters, establishing balance of power on their ships, and developing > a nascent form of worker's compensation: A lost limb entitled one to > payment from the booty, more or less depending on whether it was a > right arm, a left arm, or a leg. > > The idea of enlightened piracy is strange swill to swallow for those > steeped in a pop culture version of the pirate - chaos on the high > seas, drinking and pillaging, damsels forced onto the plank. Sure, > there's something about the independence of piracy that still speaks > to people today. (Even the founders of International Talk Like a > Pirate Day acknowledge that there is, in people who love to say > "Aargh," a yearning for a certain kind of freedom.) But it turns out > that pirate life was more than just greedy rebellion. It offers > insights into the nature of democracy and the reasons it might emerge > - as a natural state of being, or a rational response to a much less > pleasant way of life. > > To Leeson, pirate democracy was an institution born of necessity. In > one successful cruise, a pirate could take home what a merchant sailor > earned in 50 years. Yet a business enterprise made up of the violent > and lawless was clearly problematic: piracy required common action and > mutual trust. And pirates couldn't rely on a government to set the > rules. Some think that "without government, where would we be?" Leeson > says. "But what pirates really show is, no, it's just common sense. > You have an incentive to try to create rules to make society get > along. And that's just as important to pirates as it is to anybody > else." > > But Marcus Rediker, the author of the pirate histories "Between the > Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" and "Villains of All Nations," sees > pirate democracy less as a means for order than as a political > statement, a pointed reaction to the working sailor's life. When > pirates roamed the seas, Rediker says, it was the law-abiding merchant > ships that were run like miniature tyrannies. Captains held absolute > power. Floggings were routine and often deadly. When pirates recruited > sailors from the ships they pillaged, they opened a window to a > different kind of society - far from the one the working-class sailors > would otherwise find on land or sea. Rediker argues that pirate > democracy "is not about human nature at all. It's about the specific > experience of sailors and the way that they wanted to imagine a better > world." > > Piracy, says Rediker, a history professor at the University of > Pittsburgh, was "a fascinating, almost utopian kind of experiment." > Indeed, he says, pirate democracy was purer than what was practiced in > Athens: The Greeks didn't give slaves the vote, but pirates offered > the right to everyone, black or white. (It's probably also safe to say > that pirates didn't have superdelegates.) Before each voyage, the crew > elected a captain who could be deposed at any time, as well as a > quartermaster whose main purpose was to make sure the captain didn't > have too much power. A written charter outlined ship rules, which > tended to prohibit theft and violence aboard and set strict rules for > the presence of women. (Contrary to popular myth, Leeson, says, > pirates usually set limits on drinking. "A drunken pirate crew," he > points out, "would be less effective than a sober crew.") > > Pirates even conducted a version of a fair trial, Rediker says, when > determining the fate of captured captains. If any pirate on board knew > the man from his merchant ship days, he could testify about his > treatment. A captain who turned out to be kind was sometimes spared > his life. And in a precursor of our own democratic love of political > satire, pirates wrote coarse, hilarious plays that mocked the upper > classes' criminal justice system. > > Their mockery, and their gallows humor, reflected the risks they > faced. The pirates' democratic experiment, like piracy itself, turned > out to be short-lived. When the buccaneers of the late 1600s attacked > Spanish trade ships, Rediker says, the British navy looked the other > way. But when pirates began to attack British and American ships in > the early 1700s, the British naval crackdown was swift and fierce. By > 1730, the traditional pirate life was essentially done. > > And, scholarly treatises aside, some of its specifics have been lost > in the popular imagination. The current image of the pirate is colored > more by the Robert Newton movies of the 1950s, or the rantings of > Captain Hook, or - to a newer generation - the Keith Richards stylings > of Johnny Depp. > > Even in their own time, the pirates' democratic experiment was quickly > forgotten, a culture washed away. It would be another half a century, > Leeson says, before James Madison would start to devise a US > Constitution. And there's no evidence, he says, that the forefathers > of British and American democracy took any of their cues from pirate > ships. "The Federalists never refer back to pirates," he says. "I've > looked." > > Joanna Weiss covers TV and pop culture for the Globe. She can be > reached at weiss at globe.com. > (c) Copyright 2008 The New York Times Compan > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- jugaadoo.blogspot.com From anansi1 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 6 22:01:16 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:31:16 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Antarctica: An Exhibition Message-ID: <57C65A60-C1CA-43BE-BB6E-AC802737FA17@earthlink.net> Hello to the Sarai crew - this week on Jan 8, 2009, I have a large exhibition of my Antarctica project at Robert Miller Gallery. There will be a wide variety of people from different scenes at the event. I hope some folks from the list can make it! rsvp at robertmillergallery.com in peace, Paul Details are at: http://www.djspooky.com/art/robertmillergallery.php and the press release: There will be artist/composer dialogs every Thursday of January around my show. The trailer for the project is at: www.djspooky.com/art/terra_nova.php So far: the dialogs are as follows: Gallery show opens on Jan 8, 2009 Then: Every Thursday of January Sound + Image: Composers in dialog about contemporary art and composition "Meet The Composer" is media sponsor for the events. Sound + Image Laura Kuhn - Director of the John Cage Trust Foundation is in dialog with me on Jan 10 Peter Halley - Chair of Yale University's Art Department for Painting is in dialog with me on Jan 15 Carol Becker - Dean of Columbia University's School of The Arts is in with me dialog on Jan 22 Paul Cantalone (Oliver Stone's sound track composer - did the score for W), Carter Burwell (soundtrack composer for No Country for Old Men), and Ronen Givony (curator, Wordless Music Festival), are in dialog with me on Jan 29 Here's the press release for the project: North/South Robert Miller Gallery is pleased to announce its first exhibition of the work of Paul Miller. In 2008 Miller went to Antarctica to shoot a film about the sound of ice, and ended up creating an installation out of the journey. For Robert Miller Gallery, Paul Miller recasts the epic detritus of the art and other cultural worlds as skillfully handled archival video samplings, digital prints, and drawings, calling into question the value of appropriation and the status of the copy. Finding inspiration in historic documents and films like James F. Cook's infamous 1912 film "The Truth about the Pole" (a false narrative made by the "explorer" using the North Pole as a film studio, Cook tried to portray himself in a documentary he self- financed as the true discoverer of the North Pole), and rare images of Admiral Byrd's 1939 voyage to the South Pole, Miller explores the range of "truth" in modern portrayals of the explorer's path. In 2007-2008 Miller spent four weeks in Antarctica re-tracing several explorers' journeys and with his "North/South" show at Robert Miller gallery, he reconstructs a collage of their journals and ephemera in multiple contexts. Using materials as diverse as John Cage's 1938 "Imaginary Landscape #1" as an inspiration (it was the first composition written for turntables) Miller looks at how documents and archival materials influence perception of history and the search for the explorer's goal of defining new frontiers. In "North/South" he deftly recontextualizes the rhetorical tropes of music notation and graphic design to mine the intersection of public and personal. A deejay and writer, Miller maps his ongoing relationship with the past, present, and future of music, using record collections, musical taxonomies, and play-lists as impetus for portraits and cultural critiques to blur the lines between how composers create and artists design work based on a seamless dialog between "sampling" and originality. This exhibition of new work will incorporate digital prints, works on paper, and a video installation to define a sonic landscape/timeline that begins around the turn of the first millennium and projects centuries ahead into the future for concepts such as "A Manifesto for a People's Republic of Antarctica." Drawing on a history of music's ups and downs in terms of mountains and valleys, water and above all, ice, Miller expands on the tradition of landscape portraiture, creating a topography of music spanning across every wall of the gallery. North/South is comprised of four sections: 1) Notations – a contemporary response to John Cage, 2) Appropriation of O, a collaboration with artist Ann Hamilton, 3) Rodchenko, Revisited – an exploration of Miller's graphic design of prints for a fictional revolution in Antarctica, and 4) North/South – a video installation juxtaposing Admiral Byrd and James F. Cook's respective voyages to the South and North Poles, with historical documents of other famous and infamous voyages to Antarctica and the Arctic. Miller translates the possibilities of music's futures into graphic terms of an almost science-fictional account in images of a revolution in Antarctica. His backward and forward glance, though, embraces its own subjective account, bringing Miller's own thoughts on history (and its representation) to the forefront. His "People's Republic of Antarctica" does not attempt to be a definitive narrative on music's relationship to revolution, but instead one that exists at the interface of his personal vision and that of a shared popular culture. Miller's video installation is an acoustic portrait of Antarctica's relationship to the "Great Game" of national interests in claiming the wilderness of the South Pole. Miller's composed score for the video materials is based on gamelan shadow theater, and electronic music's ability to re-define geography's relationship to "authenticity" – natural sounds versus their reconstruction in digital media are motifs for the composition that accompanies the installation. While using sound within installations has a tradition in contemporary art, Miller conflates its use within a fine-art context with other ways in which music reaches the public. Miller postulates that you are your own archive. His composition "Terra Nova" was written while he was in Antarctica for 4 weeks, and it offers an extended trip through Miller's sound art palette. Paul Miller was born in 1970 in New York. In 2004, his exhibition Rebirth of a Nation, a remix of D.W. Griffith's infamous "Birth of a Nation" was installed as "Path is Prologue" where it premiered at the Paula Cooper Gallery, and then traveled as a live multi-media opera to over fifty widely acclaimed venues, such as the Herod Atticus Theater at the base of the Acropolis and the Théâtre du Châtelet in Paris. His works have been performed at locations as diverse as the Tate Modern and The Guggenheim and he has had numerous exhibitions in the United States and abroad, including solo shows at the Annina Nosei Gallery and he has also curated group exhibits at Jeffrey Deitch gallery. In addition, Miller has been included in the 1997 and 2002 Whitney Biennial, the 2004 Venice Biennial of Architecture, and 2007 Venice Biennial's "Africa Pavilion." In 2004 he published a critically acclaimed and award winning book "Rhythm Science" about the relationship of graphic design and contemporary music, and in 2008, he edited an anthology of writings on sound art, digital media, and contemporary composition entitled "Sound Unbound" (both, MIT Press), featuring Pierre Boulez, Steve Reich, Hans Ulrich Obrist, Brian Eno, Moby, Chuck D, Saul Williams, Jonathan Lethem, Daphne Keller (Senior Legal Counsel to Google) and many others. In addition to his art works, he tours the world constantly as Dj Spooky - a very "in-demand" world famous dj. He currently lives and works in New York. Terra Nova, the composition based on Miller's journey to Antarctica will be premiering in NY as a headlining event of Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival 2009, and will tour opera houses for the next several years. The Robert Miller Gallery 524 W26th Street New York New York, 10001 Tel: 1 212 366 4774 Fax: 1 212 366 4454 Email: rmg at robertmillergallery.com Gallery Hours: Tuesday Through Saturday, 10am to 6pm From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 22:16:27 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:46:27 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Groups in Pakistan demand to come out of denial mode Message-ID: <9657335F1336483EA5348A4627AF3F4C@tara> Voices of reason If India and Pakistan are to walk away from the current crisis with a joint victory against the scourge of terrorism, especially of the cross-border kind, they would do well to heed the voices of reason and sanity being raised on both sides of the border. A fine example is the statement issued on Sunday by Pakistani human rights activists, women's rights activists, teachers, labour leaders, and others on the Mumbai terrorist attack and its aftermath. The spirited statement demands, among other things, that "the government of Pakistan must no longer stay in a state of denial.[and] must not miss the opportunity of devising an effective strategy to overcome the menace of terrorism." It also makes democratic demands on India and appeals to both governments to "redouble their efforts at addressing the rise of militant groups in the region.[and] quickly compose their differences over ways of dealing with terrorism." This democratic intervention comes at a time when a major section of the Pakistani establishment continues to be in a public state of denial over the fact that the Laskhar-e-Taiba perpetrators of the November 26 attack came from Pakistan. Given the unsustainable obfuscation and the related failure to respond positively to India's key demands that the Lashkar conspirators and masterminds should be brought to justice and the terrorist infrastructure should be eliminated to prevent future attacks, bilateral relations nosedived. This time the crisis in Pakistan-India relations has failed to divert international attention from the problem of terrorism. No rationalising linkage has been made by anyone in his or her right mind between what happened in Mumbai and the Kashmir issue. In the midst of all this, the Manmohan Singh government has done well to keep a cool head: it has responded to the crisis firmly but with exemplary restraint. If there is one thing the history of the past decade has taught us on the subcontinent, it is not to allow civil society and people-to-people relations between India and Pakistan to be held hostage to the acts and stratagems of extremist elements. This principle is easy to state but difficult to practise. Irrational responses do have a way of overwhelming the rational. Far from cutting off contact with Pakistanis, especially in the realm of ideas, this is a time for intellectuals, journalists, artists, and ordinary people on both sides to try and understand each other's problems and perspectives better. If democratic Pakistani intellectuals can be brave enough to stand up and urge their government to end its state of denial over Mumbai, democratic and secular India is eminently capable of ruling out irrational options. From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 23:19:46 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:49:46 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan References: <995a19920901051405i4f01691ds74098a71f7cd182@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8175044FF41B4192AED837AF01C6E49D@tara> Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I said in an earlier mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the batsman as long as there were doubts. I think it is baseless and irresponsible to give a state clean chit just because it sounds progressive and broad minded to do so. I wouldn't object if you were to say that even India has links with Jihadi elements which Pakistan claims India uses to destabilize Pakistan. But I will definitely not agree with the claim that Pakistani state has no nexus with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani flag on Red fort as their stated aim. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Sethi" To: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for posting this text) and > Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, > > This is in response to a conversation on the authenticity/ > "insightfullness" of Mohammed Hanif's text that appeared in the Times > of India in the Times of India -and I have appended at the end of this > mail. > > I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's text (appended below) > interesting is primarily because often when reading/learning about > another place - especially through the eyes of correspondents - it is > hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For weeks I have been > having conversation with friends about how pakistan appears to be > teetering on a brink of some sort - without really knowing that that > brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the chasm already - what > does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no brink, no teetering, > no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. > > But fortunately, i have also been re-reading Slaughterhouse Five - > Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden fire-bombing in WWII where, after > describing the devastation of dresden as a moonscape utterly ravaged > by carpet bombs, he writes > > "Billy's story ended very curiously in a suburb untouched by fire and > explosions. The guards and americans came at nightfall to an innn > which was open for business. There was candlelight. There were fires > in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty tables ad chairs > waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds with covers turned > down upstairs." > > On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or Sebal's incredible > Natural History of Destruction there is the tendency to abstract trite > observations like "ordinary people continue with their normal lives > even as the world collapses around them." I would argue that what > makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is that they remind us > that this IS normal life. This horror, this destruction, this > banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed Hanif's text - (without > placing it in the same league) - again gives us a snapshot into the > normalcy of normal life in pakistan. > > Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in Delhi, Surat, > Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - one is tempted to > read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of implosion and the > embarrassment of "state failure" that Indians so happily foist upon > neighbouring countries. But as those living in India will readily > testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter what the disaster, we > are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in cricket - the > endurance of the state should be given the benefit of doubt. Perhaps > we could accord others in the neighbourhood the same privileges. > > The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends something like this : > "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans could sleep in his stable > that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz coffee and a little beer. > Then he came out to the stable to listen to them bedding down in the > straw. > "Good Night Americans," he said in German, "Sleep well." > > best > a. > > Ten myths about Pakistan > 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > Mohammed Hanif > > Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can > sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place > on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian > reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in > recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its > citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... > > Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the > jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the > jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. > Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags > the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage > of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has > lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did > fighting India. > > Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that > General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the > army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased > jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country > he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its > own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian > middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, > put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the > law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying > that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never > have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not > want another Musharraf. > > Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very > diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General > Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being > Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed > Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to > some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably > heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army > having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. > > Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a > sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than > India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish > extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other > strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of > years have become its biggest liability. > > Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not > noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have > become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they > turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and > fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase > from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul > Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and > shelters for sick animals. > > It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this > country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more > than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the > largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was > spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't > raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan > took much notice. > > All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - > Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India > sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on > Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than > destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who > hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a > woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much > that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, > DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these > jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him > seriously. > > Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of > Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite > targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities > they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do > you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow > yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles > targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should > switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. > > RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a > brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. > Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own > people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious > brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the > Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. > > Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the > mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, > and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then > Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry > in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the > countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a > lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide > in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi > because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our > mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. > > The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aman.am at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 00:04:32 2009 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:34:32 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <8175044FF41B4192AED837AF01C6E49D@tara> References: <995a19920901051405i4f01691ds74098a71f7cd182@mail.gmail.com> <8175044FF41B4192AED837AF01C6E49D@tara> Message-ID: <995a19920901061034u3d8b1ec6w978a30b8a7b19365@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, I have never denied the presence of militant groups in pakistan. That there are "links" between armed groups and power centres in pakistan is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting question is the nature of these "links" and the nature of the state. If I was to say the "Indian state" has connections with terror organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would then ask - okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or in the case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does the director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant commander? Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier people on both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably murky waters -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry for the mixed metaphor) ... and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications in drawing straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. best a. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash wrote: > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I said in an earlier > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the batsman as long as > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and irresponsible to give a state > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and broad minded to do so. I > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India has links with Jihadi > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to destabilize Pakistan. But I > will definitely not agree with the claim that Pakistani state has no nexus > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani flag on Red fort as > their stated aim. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Sethi" > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about > pakistan > > >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for posting this text) and >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, >> >> This is in response to a conversation on the authenticity/ >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed Hanif's text that appeared in the Times >> of India in the Times of India -and I have appended at the end of this >> mail. >> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's text (appended below) >> interesting is primarily because often when reading/learning about >> another place - especially through the eyes of correspondents - it is >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For weeks I have been >> having conversation with friends about how pakistan appears to be >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really knowing that that >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the chasm already - what >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no brink, no teetering, >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. >> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading Slaughterhouse Five - >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden fire-bombing in WWII where, after >> describing the devastation of dresden as a moonscape utterly ravaged >> by carpet bombs, he writes >> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a suburb untouched by fire and >> explosions. The guards and americans came at nightfall to an innn >> which was open for business. There was candlelight. There were fires >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty tables ad chairs >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds with covers turned >> down upstairs." >> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or Sebal's incredible >> Natural History of Destruction there is the tendency to abstract trite >> observations like "ordinary people continue with their normal lives >> even as the world collapses around them." I would argue that what >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is that they remind us >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this destruction, this >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed Hanif's text - (without >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a snapshot into the >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. >> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in Delhi, Surat, >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - one is tempted to >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of implosion and the >> embarrassment of "state failure" that Indians so happily foist upon >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in India will readily >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter what the disaster, we >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in cricket - the >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit of doubt. Perhaps >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the same privileges. >> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends something like this : >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans could sleep in his stable >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz coffee and a little beer. >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them bedding down in the >> straw. >> "Good Night Americans," he said in German, "Sleep well." >> >> best >> a. >> >> Ten myths about Pakistan >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >> Mohammed Hanif >> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian media... >> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis. >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did >> fighting India. >> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform, >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the >> law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying >> that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not >> want another Musharraf. >> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably >> heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny. >> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a >> sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of >> years have become its biggest liability. >> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and >> fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase >> from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and >> shelters for sick animals. >> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the >> largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan >> took much notice. >> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan - >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers, >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him >> seriously. >> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do >> you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map. >> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries. >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis. >> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums, >> and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry >> in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the >> countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi >> because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' >> >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 02:59:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:29:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-39 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901061329w19b79b7ey20ca610fe50d3669@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/release/rel_print_page.asp?relid=28238 Saturday, May 26, 2007 Ministry of Home Affairs FIRST TRANCHE OF MULTI PURPOSE NATIONAL IDENTITY CARDS HANDED OVER TO THE CITIZENS 18:19 IST The first set of national identity cards under the Pilot Project on Multi-purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) was handed over to the citizens of Pooth Khurd at Narela by Shri D.K. Sikri, Registrar General, India & Registrar General of Citizens Registration, here today. A Pilot Project to understand and develop the processes for collection and management database of citizens as well as for smart card technology has been under implementation in Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Delhi, Goa, Gujarat, Jammu & Kashmir, Rajasthan, Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and in the union territory of Pondicherry. The Pilot Project on MNIC has followed the census approach for collection of particulars of each individual in the pilot areas. Alongwith the particulars of individuals, photographs and finger biometrics have also been collected of all those who are 18 years of age and above. For management of citizens database, 20 centres have been set up, one at each Tehsil/Block headquarters equipped with computer terminals and on-line connectivity. The back-end management of these centres has been out-sourced to Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL). The personalization of cards has been entrusted to the Consortium of Central Public Sector Undertakings (CPSUs) comprising Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), Electronics Corporations of India Limited (ECIL) and Indian Telephone Industries (ITI). The design of the card has been prepared with the help of National Institute of Design and carries a unique National Identity Number (NIN) for each of the citizens. The identity card being given to each individual citizen, has a micro processor chip with a memory of 16 KB which is a secure card. Besides having several physical features into the design of the card, it is the cyber security using 'asymmetric key cryptography' and 'symmetric key cryptography' that has made the card secure against the risk of tempering and cloning. The National Informatics Centre has made a major contribution towards developing the processes for database management and smart card technology. The rest of the citizens in the pilot areas shall be delivered cards by post for which special arrangements have been made with the Department of Posts for delivery. The cards will be sent to them in a packet which is tear-proof, temper-proof and waterproof. This has been specially designed for this project. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 03:02:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:32:40 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-40 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901061332g7ae82061y628f742e15dfd820@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/26/stories/2007052601511300.htm The Hindu Online edition of India's National Newspaper Saturday, May 26, 2007 National identity card scheme to be launched today Special Correspondent Plan to disburse two million cards to those above 18 years NEW DELHI: The ambitious Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) scheme will become operational on Saturday with the Government scheduled to release the first set prepared under the pilot project initiated four years ago. The MNIC boasts of being a tamper-proof plastic card with data in visible zone and details in a microprocessor chip that requires a reader to peruse the data it contains. The card would give the citizen a 16-digit ID number and would be delivered by India Post in a tamper-proof customised cover that is both waterproof and able to sustain extreme temperatures. Rs. 45-crore project Registrar General of India Devender Kumar Sikri told The Hindu that the Rs. 45-crore project planned to provide two million cards to people above 18 years in 13 districts across 12 States and the Union Territory of Puducherry. After the official launch on Saturday, the MNIC centre hopes to despatch cards to two of the three million people in these districts over the next three months. A consortium of public sector companies viz. Bharat Electronics Limited at Delhi and Mumbai, Electronics Corporation of India Limited at Kolkata and Indian Telephone Industries, Chennai, have coordinated with the MNIC. The microprocessor chip, provided by Philips, would work on system developed by the National Informatics Centre and is embedded in the plastic card designed by the National Institute of Design, Ahmedabad. It can be read offline and at present it will be available at police stations. Individuals too can purchase the reader. Explaining the features of the16 kB chip, M. Loganathan of BEL and J. Sundara Rao of ECIL, said it had three specific usages, validation, updating and additional applications, for which some 6 KB to 8 KB space would be available. It would contain biometric data of the cardholder. S.K. Chakrabarti, Deputy Director General of MNIC, at the Registrar General of India, has been coordinating at the Government end. The card itself would carry digital signatures of two officials. Mr. Sikri said at present the Government was paying Rs. 60 a card, but with volumes the price could come down. While the pilot project was launched in November 2003, The Citizenship Act, 1955, was amended in December 2003, to provide for compulsory registration of all citizens and issue of a national identity card. The pilot project was launched in Jammu and Kashmir, Gujarat, Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Assam, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Tripura, Goa, Delhi and Tamil Nadu. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 03:05:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:35:34 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-41 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901061335g1b3dc962j25d86b871ce33722@mail.gmail.com> http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/May272007/national200705263969.asp Deccan Herald Sunday, May 27, 2007 National ID card launched New Delhi, Agencies: In a move to effectively address emerging security concerns, the Centre on Saturday, launched the multi-purpose "National Identity Card" at Narela in the capital city as part of a pilot project which may eventually be extended throughout the country by issuing a chip-based smart ID cards to all the citizens. Registrar General of India Devender Kumar Sikri presented the first card to a woman resident of Narela in north-west Delhi. Home Ministry sources said the remaining 2.4 million citizens, who are covered under the Rs 44.36-crore pilot project in selected sub-districts of 12 states and one Union territory, would receive the card by post, before July this year. "The card would give the citizen a 16-digit ID number and would be delivered by India Post in a tamper-proof customised cover that is both waterproof and able to sustain extreme temperatures," an official of the Registrar General of India said. Details on card Costing Rs 60 each, the ID card will carry basic details across several parametres including educational qualification, place of birth, photograph and fingerprints of the holder. A few details would be visible on the card. The remaining information would be stored in the 16-kbs chip on the card that can be read only with a reader. The card is also aimed at helping e-governance by improving the citizen-Government interface." Secure "This is a secure card,'' the sources said, pointing out that it is being introduced on the basis of the recommendations of a Technical Committee constituted by the Government. This committee has representatives from prestigious institutions such as National Informatics Centre (NIC), IIT Kanpur, Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), Indian Telephone Industries Limited (ITI) and Electronics Corporation India Limited (ECIL) and Intelligence Bureau (IB). The scheme will be implemented in the entire country after taking into account the experiences gained and lessons learnt from the pilot project, which was launched in 2003 when the BJP-led NDA government was in power. States covered Jammu and Kashmir, Gujarat, Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Asom, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Tripura, Goa, Delhi and Tamil Nadu and Union territory of Puducherry were covered under the pilot project. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 03:07:13 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:37:13 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-42 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901061337q3b8e0e2bxfbf928671a913e15@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Multi-use_ID_cards_in_the_offing/articleshow/2573759.cms Multi-use ID cards in the offing 27 Nov 2007, 0050 hrs IST, Mahendra Kumar Singh, TNN NEW DELHI: The Centre is finalising a proposal to use multi-application smart cards with unique IDs for citizens to check largescale illegal immigration and to better target and implement government schemes. The proposal, under the consideration of an empowered group of ministers (EGoM), sought to merge two schemes— Multi-Purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) and Unique Identity Number Scheme (UID). The home ministry's sche-me for ID cards — MNIC, laun-ched on a pilot basis in border areas — is essentially meant to contain omnibus information which would meet security concerns. The MNIC scheme aims to check and establish the process for determination of citizenship and preparation of National Register of Indian Citizens and National Register of Residents. The Planning Commission has allocated Rs 500 crore for this purpose. "The multi-purpose smart card will help in effective targeting of subsidies and better monitoring of programmes and ensure that fraudulent multiple claims are minimised. It will also help in checking illegal migration in the border areas," said an official. The need for a multi-purpose national identity card has been felt for purposes as diverse as drawing benefits from government's flagship schemes like NREGA, getting ration from PDS shops or meeting security concerns. The main purpose to issue integrated smart cards is to provide a credible individual identification system to help in identifying targeted beneficiaries and improving the security conditions, the official said. The Planning Commission has suggested introduction of Integrated Smart Card System (ISCS) for major entitlement schemes to check corruption and pilferage in implementation of government schemes. According to the fresh proposal, ISCS will be based on the national level unique ID being launched by the home ministry, using the unique ID as the identifier to avoid duplication of benefits and check corruption and fraud. The proposal suggests establishing a national and state level regulatory authority — Unique Identification Card (UID) Authority — which will be the custodian of the integrated smart cards, under the IT ministry. The authority, which will require initial cost of Rs 165 crore and annual recurring expenditure of Rs 193 crore, will establish security infrastructure to make the card tamper-proof. The authority will ensure that smart cards are protected from unauthorised loading of applications and only those applications which are approved by the authority can be loaded on it. mahendra.singh at timesgroup.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 03:09:07 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:39:07 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-43 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.secureidnews.com/2008/01/08/id-cards-for-delhi-citizens-trigger-intense-debate SecureIDNews Government ID, Smart Cards, Identification and Authentication Technology ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate Tuesday, January 8, 2008 in News The Indian government mandating all citizens in Delhi carry ID cards after January 15th is causing debate over a police state versus security against terrorists. The opposition party (Bhartiya Janata Party, BJP) believes in a national citizen register for use in passports, voting and health care while some in Congress feel it would give the police too much power. At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a credible individual identification system for improving the security conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for 'police raj' NEW DELHI — The government order mandating all citizens living in Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 lest to invite police action has triggered an intense debate. Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) on Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to have the record of every Indian citizen in the country. "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as it would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people may have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move initiated in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket and have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure micro processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards will not only help in enhancing national security but they would also help in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal immigrants. Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties believed that such cards may become a potential for the police raj and harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card may be even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA regime, a Congress leader pointed out. Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA government has continued the pilot project launched in selected sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging that the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in increasing the national security. The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for increasing the national security. As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the citizens of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub-districts of Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who are 18 and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers issued at birth for all official transactions. A debate continues in the countries like United States and United Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the identification purposes. At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a credible individual identification system for improving the security conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. [end] From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 7 05:38:48 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:08:48 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani hip hop? Message-ID: <67E2A67D-2B4C-452C-BFD4-F5623364CA50@earthlink.net> Gasp - I guess it's time for Sarai to start writing theses on global hybridity, eh? Youtunbe: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=5RxgiLARd5I and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7813478.stm Strangely moving, but weird, nonetheless... Paul The elder daughter of Pakistan's assassinated former Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto, has written a rap song expressing grief over her death. The song by Bakhtawar Bhutto, 18, comes a year after the assassination and is entitled "I would take the pain away". It pays tribute to her mother's "crazy courage" and describes her as "the epitome of benevolence". It has been played regularly on state-run television and has been posted on the video-sharing website YouTube. 'Weeping' "My mother was murdered. I don't even comprehend. Was it worth dying for? I'm walking through screened doors," Bakhtawar sings in English. Bakhtawar Bhutto You had beauty and intelligence, everything you did was relevant Bakhtawar Bhutto's lyrics in "I would take the pain away" Obituary: Benazir Bhutto Life in pictures: Benazir Bhutto "No comfort or ease. I'm begging you please, God bless the deceased," she laments in the song. Praising her mother's "beauty and intelligence", the song says that the "whole world is weeping" over the murder. "Shot in the back of your ear, so young in 54th year, murdered with three kids left behind, a hopeless nation without you, you are in all their hearts," it says. The teenager, a student at Edinburgh University, then repeats the chorus line "I would take the pain away". A video to accompany the song shows footage and photographs of her smiling mother while election campaigning shortly before her death in Rawalpindi in December 2007 and of public grieving after her death. Ms Bhutto was killed in a gun and bomb attack on her convoy - blamed on Islamic militants - as it travelled through the city's Liaquat Bagh park. She had just finished addressing an election rally. Information Minister Sherry Rehman - who for several years was an aide to Ms Bhutto - told the Reuters news agency that Bakhtawar wrote the lyrics and music while studying in Edinburgh. "It's a tribute of a grieving daughter to her iconic and loving mother," she said. Ms Rehman said that while music was a hobby for Bakhtawar, she had no plan to pursue it as a career. The song has had mixed reviews in the British press. "While her dirge-like rap is unlikely to secure her a Grammy, the seemingly heartfelt tribute might win her some fans," The Independent newspaper says. The Guardian says that she uses the song to "pour out her anguish". Ms Bhutto's widower and Bakhtawar's father, Asif Ali Zardari, became president of Pakistan in September. Their son, Bilawal, 20, studies at Oxford University in the UK and another daughter, Aseefa, 14, also studies abroad. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 06:29:15 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:59:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <995a19920901061034u3d8b1ec6w978a30b8a7b19365@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full picture. I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody knows the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and the LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does he not know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following article informative. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan By Syed Saleem Shahzad KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during their three-day rampage last week. What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched by elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET, including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad. This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and pressure and grant victory.) The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem. US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit to India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot. ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major was able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his superiors. Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. Militant support The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on November 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting held in the Office of Strategic Organization. He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the Pakistani security forces. At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, were evacuated. A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces along the border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would support Pakistan if India waged war on the country. Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for pulling out the Pakistani troops. An almost perfect plan The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. His information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad. Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned operation in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this through his revelations of his LET background. Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. But there is a problem. Militants tighten their grip The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy spilling over from the tribal areas into this province. In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed, could commit its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force, to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities start to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break loose inside the country. Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as in the military. To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region. Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, and potentially as disastrous. Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi wrote: > From: Aman Sethi > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "taraprakash" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM > Dear Taraprakash, > I have never denied the presence of militant groups in > pakistan. That > there are "links" between armed groups and power > centres in pakistan > is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting > question is > the nature of these "links" and the nature of the > state. > > If I was to say the "Indian state" has > connections with terror > organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would > then ask - > okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or > in the > case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does > the > director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant > commander? > Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier > people on > both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably > murky waters > -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry > for the > mixed metaphor) ... > and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications > in drawing > straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. > best > a. > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash > wrote: > > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I > said in an earlier > > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the > batsman as long as > > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and > irresponsible to give a state > > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and > broad minded to do so. I > > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India > has links with Jihadi > > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to > destabilize Pakistan. But I > > will definitely not agree with the claim that > Pakistani state has no nexus > > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani > flag on Red fort as > > their stated aim. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman > Sethi" > > To: "sarai list" > > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM > > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered > houses - re: 10 myths about > > pakistan > > > > > >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for > posting this text) and > >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, > >> > >> This is in response to a conversation on the > authenticity/ > >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed > Hanif's text that appeared in the Times > >> of India in the Times of India -and I have > appended at the end of this > >> mail. > >> > >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's > text (appended below) > >> interesting is primarily because often when > reading/learning about > >> another place - especially through the eyes of > correspondents - it is > >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For > weeks I have been > >> having conversation with friends about how > pakistan appears to be > >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really > knowing that that > >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the > chasm already - what > >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no > brink, no teetering, > >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. > >> > >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading > Slaughterhouse Five - > >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden > fire-bombing in WWII where, after > >> describing the devastation of dresden as a > moonscape utterly ravaged > >> by carpet bombs, he writes > >> > >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a > suburb untouched by fire and > >> explosions. The guards and americans came at > nightfall to an innn > >> which was open for business. There was > candlelight. There were fires > >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty > tables ad chairs > >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds > with covers turned > >> down upstairs." > >> > >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or > Sebal's incredible > >> Natural History of Destruction there is the > tendency to abstract trite > >> observations like "ordinary people continue > with their normal lives > >> even as the world collapses around them." I > would argue that what > >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is > that they remind us > >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this > destruction, this > >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed > Hanif's text - (without > >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a > snapshot into the > >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. > >> > >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in > Delhi, Surat, > >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - > one is tempted to > >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of > implosion and the > >> embarrassment of "state failure" that > Indians so happily foist upon > >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in > India will readily > >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter > what the disaster, we > >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in > cricket - the > >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit > of doubt. Perhaps > >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the > same privileges. > >> > >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends > something like this : > >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans > could sleep in his stable > >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz > coffee and a little beer. > >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them > bedding down in the > >> straw. > >> "Good Night Americans," he said in > German, "Sleep well." > >> > >> best > >> a. > >> > >> Ten myths about Pakistan > >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > >> Mohammed Hanif > >> > >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the > Indian press can > >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one > wonders what place > >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't > be surprised if an Indian > >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked > the same question in > >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions > about Pakistan and its > >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian > media... > >> > >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's > government controls the > >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or > ISI controls the > >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI > control the Jihadis. > >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly > it's the tail that wags > >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi > alliance was a marriage > >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. > Pakistan army has > >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis > than it ever did > >> fighting India. > >> > >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: > Let's not forget that > >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired > from his job as the > >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf > first appeased > >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them > again. The country > >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, > above all for its > >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in > sections of the Indian > >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh > a military uniform, > >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, > make his word the > >> law of the land, and he too will go around > thumping his chest saying > >> that it's his destiny to save India from > Indians . Zardari will never > >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But > Pakistanis do not > >> want another Musharraf. > >> > >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, > Pakistan is very > >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as > well. General > >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the > north for being > >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same > time it bombed > >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and > for subscribing to > >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. > You have probably > >> heard the joke about other countries having armies > but Pakistan's army > >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it > funny. > >> > >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's > nuclear programme is under a > >> sophisticated command and control system, no more > under threat than > >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are > threatened by Hindu or Jewish > >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's > security establishment's other > >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in > the last couple of > >> years have become its biggest liability. > >> > >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then > Pakistanis have not > >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long > time that they have > >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains > are late but they > >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre > festivals, melas, and > >> fashion models than a failed state can > accommodate. To borrow a phrase > >> from President Zardari, there are lots of > non-state actors like Abdul > >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, > orphanages and > >> shelters for sick animals. > >> > >> It is a deeply religious country: Every > half-decent election in this > >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties > have never won more > >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year > Pakistan witnessed the > >> largest civil rights movements in the history of > this region. It was > >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But > since people weren't > >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody > outside Pakistan > >> took much notice. > >> > >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four > provinces in Pakistan - > >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any > popular anti-India > >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as > enemy-in-chief on > >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling > potatoes to India than > >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida > inspired jihadis who > >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as > much as they hate a > >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In > fact there is not much > >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, > China CDs, barbers, > >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan > recently said that these > >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but > nobody takes him > >> seriously. > >> > >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in > the tribal areas of > >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or > Muridke, two favourite > >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because > those are the cities > >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all > how much training do > >> you need if you are going to shoot at random > civilians or blow > >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone > thinks a few missiles > >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a > lesson, they should > >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the > map. > >> > >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the > agencies have had a > >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the > neighbouring countries. > >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to > protecting their own > >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a > bigger, more notorious > >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the > jihad against the > >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against > those very jihadis. > >> > >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis > visiting India till the > >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us > about India's slums, > >> and that there was nothing to buy except > handicrafts and saris. Then > >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that > nobody slept hungry > >> in their country. But now, not only do people > sleep hungry in both the > >> countries, they also commit suicide because they > see nothing but a > >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer > contemplating suicide > >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her > children in Karachi > >> because she can't feed them: this is what we > have achieved in our > >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. > >> > >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of > Exploding Mangoes' > >> > >> > >> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 06:38:14 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:08:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <794185.35655.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> By the way, this is the guy that the Pakistan government is supposed to be fighting.Enjoy! http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1194581 Pak allows LeT founder to import bullet proof car Agencies Tuesday, September 30, 2008 22:09 IST Digg it Add to del.icio.us Google bookmarks Yahoo! bookmarks Add to Newsvine Add to Reddit ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has granted permission to the chief of the Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, to import a duty free bullet-proof Land Cruiser, worth Rs 25 million. According to the interior ministry sources in Islamabad, the LeT chief, who fears a possible attempt on his life by his “external enemies”, had sought the government permission to import a duty free bullet proof Land Cruiser in view of the rising number of terrorist acts across Pakistan. The sources said that after some lengthy deliberations on the issue, the government has decided to give him a go ahead to import a fully armoured Land Cruiser for his use from Dubai. It was for the first time that the leader of a banned jehadi group had made such a request to the government and it is also for the first time that the government has acceded to such a request. --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "taraprakash" , "Aman Sethi" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 6:29 AM > I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading > Hanif's piece.He could be naive,or maybe he > intentionally does not want to paint the full picture. > I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first > point.There is an awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack > of knowledge viz "Nobody knows the whole truth". > How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? > Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis > that they are killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad > of the Alqaeda flavor) and the LET(the still good jihadis > because they are killing Indians)? Does he not know that Al > Qaeda and LET are separate entities? > I would comment on his other points later.People may find > the following article informative. > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html > Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan > By Syed Saleem Shahzad > > KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based > Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) were sent on a "sacrificial" > mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - as they were > expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces > during their three-day rampage last week. > > What did not go according to plan was the capture of > 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kesab, who has given details of the > militants' plot that was hatched by elements of > Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the > LET, including the training of the mission's members at > PNS Iqbal (a naval commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla > Dam near the capital Islamabad. > > This single arrest has played very badly with the separate > plans of > Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. > And beyond the escalating tensions between India and > Pakistan, the crucial question now arises: Will Pakistan > succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp > down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward > section officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? > > "Everybody wishes for a war between India and > Pakistan," a middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia > Times Online on condition of anonymity. "Had prayers > not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today all > mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for > battle between India and Pakistan as this is the key for > success for the mujahideen from Afghanistan to India." > (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there is > extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove > all fear and pressure and grant victory.) > > The militants obviously want their war, but the United > States now wants war on the militants, and therein lies a > major problem. > > US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of > Staff, is in Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza > Rice, following her visit to India. Asia Times Online > contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will be > for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed > itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the > Mumbai plot. > > ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section > head (a major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in > India to be turned into the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda > 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) > Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes > were made at the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the > situation in which the major was able to make his fateful > decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his superiors. > Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military > on the spot, and it will be a real test for new Chief of > Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kiani, and the army's > relationship with militants. > > Militant support > The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was > in Sukkur, a city 363 kilometers north of the southern port > city of Karachi, on November 26 and was scheduled to travel > to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on November 27, he > was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city > twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting > held in the Office of Strategic Organization. > > He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and > asked what possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. > Saeed assured that the LET would be the first line of > defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian Sea through > its marine operations, and that it would escalate its > activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell > militants in Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier > Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the Pakistani > security forces. > > At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, > all militant training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of > Pakistan-administered Kashmir, were evacuated. > > A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing > for journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India > mobilized its forces along the border, all Pakistani forces > would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are fighting > Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that > hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and > others would support Pakistan if India waged war on the > country. > > Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue > process with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms > and conditions for pulling out the Pakistani troops. > > An almost perfect plan > The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants > (Indian Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). > He had cased the Jewish community center that was attacked > and where several people were killed. His information was > that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad. > > Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, > and its well-trained commandos then carried out their > meticulously planned operation in which only 10 men held > Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. > > Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic > targets immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's > arrest prevented this through his revelations of his LET > background. > > Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not > carried out at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, > or even by the ISI's high command. But there is now > proof of the involvement of the LET and of some junior ISI > officials. It is on this point that the US will apply > pressure on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. > > But there is a problem. > > Militants tighten their grip > The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with > militancy spilling over from the tribal areas into this > province. > > In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 > people from the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them > retired army officers and members or relatives of the Awami > National Party (ANP), which rules in the province. The > Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the > ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. > > Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply > convoys passing through Khyber Agency en route to > Afghanistan have come under increasing attacks. In the most > recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. > > In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with > its well-defined vertical command structure under the single > command of Saeed, could commit its several thousand members, > virtually a para-military force, to the cause of the > anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. > > What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing > this is its under-riding loyalty to and support from > Pakistan. If the authorities start to mess with the LET, > beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break loose > inside the country. > > Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be > a severe reaction from the more hardline elements in that > organization, as well as in the military. > > To date, the authorities have not given any indication of > their plans. If they do indeed resist the overtures of > Mullen and Rice, it is most likely that the Pakistani armed > forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and Bajaur Agency, > leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch > further attacks on India, with dire consequences for whole > South Asia region. > > Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally > unappealing, and potentially as disastrous. > > Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan > Bureau Chief. He can be reached at > saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi > wrote: > > > From: Aman Sethi > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered > houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > > To: "taraprakash" > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM > > Dear Taraprakash, > > I have never denied the presence of militant groups in > > pakistan. That > > there are "links" between armed groups and > power > > centres in pakistan > > is not something i am contesting - I think the > interesting > > question is > > the nature of these "links" and the nature > of the > > state. > > > > If I was to say the "Indian state" has > > connections with terror > > organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One > would > > then ask - > > okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB > - or > > in the > > case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so > does > > the > > director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant > > commander? > > Probably not - its probably a connection between > mid-tier > > people on > > both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably > > murky waters > > -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths > (sorry > > for the > > mixed metaphor) ... > > and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the > complications > > in drawing > > straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. > > best > > a. > > > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash > > wrote: > > > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify > what I > > said in an earlier > > > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to > the > > batsman as long as > > > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and > > irresponsible to give a state > > > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and > > broad minded to do so. I > > > wouldn't object if you were to say that even > India > > has links with Jihadi > > > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to > > destabilize Pakistan. But I > > > will definitely not agree with the claim that > > Pakistani state has no nexus > > > with jihadi elements which have unfurling > Pakistani > > flag on Red fort as > > > their stated aim. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman > > Sethi" > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered > > houses - re: 10 myths about > > > pakistan > > > > > > > > >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank > for > > posting this text) and > > >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, > > >> > > >> This is in response to a conversation on the > > authenticity/ > > >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed > > Hanif's text that appeared in the Times > > >> of India in the Times of India -and I have > > appended at the end of this > > >> mail. > > >> > > >> I think the reason I find Mohammed > Hanif's > > text (appended below) > > >> interesting is primarily because often when > > reading/learning about > > >> another place - especially through the eyes > of > > correspondents - it is > > >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at > all. For > > weeks I have been > > >> having conversation with friends about how > > pakistan appears to be > > >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without > really > > knowing that that > > >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in > the > > chasm already - what > > >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is > there no > > brink, no teetering, > > >> no nothing except to the grind of the > everyday. > > >> > > >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading > > Slaughterhouse Five - > > >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden > > fire-bombing in WWII where, after > > >> describing the devastation of dresden as a > > moonscape utterly ravaged > > >> by carpet bombs, he writes > > >> > > >> "Billy's story ended very curiously > in a > > suburb untouched by fire and > > >> explosions. The guards and americans came at > > nightfall to an innn > > >> which was open for business. There was > > candlelight. There were fires > > >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were > empty > > tables ad chairs > > >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty > beds > > with covers turned > > >> down upstairs." > > >> > > >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - > or > > Sebal's incredible > > >> Natural History of Destruction there is the > > tendency to abstract trite > > >> observations like "ordinary people > continue > > with their normal lives > > >> even as the world collapses around > them." I > > would argue that what > > >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - > is > > that they remind us > > >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this > > destruction, this > > >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed > > Hanif's text - (without > > >> placing it in the same league) - again gives > us a > > snapshot into the > > >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. > > >> > > >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts > in > > Delhi, Surat, > > >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of > 2008 - > > one is tempted to > > >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of > > implosion and the > > >> embarrassment of "state failure" > that > > Indians so happily foist upon > > >> neighbouring countries. But as those living > in > > India will readily > > >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no > matter > > what the disaster, we > > >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman > in > > cricket - the > > >> endurance of the state should be given the > benefit > > of doubt. Perhaps > > >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood > the > > same privileges. > > >> > > >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers > ends > > something like this : > > >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the > americans > > could sleep in his stable > > >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz > > coffee and a little beer. > > >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to > them > > bedding down in the > > >> straw. > > >> "Good Night Americans," he said in > > German, "Sleep well." > > >> > > >> best > > >> a. > > >> > > >> Ten myths about Pakistan > > >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > > >> Mohammed Hanif > > >> > > >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in > the > > Indian press can > > >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: > one > > wonders what place > > >> on earth they're talking about? I > wouldn't > > be surprised if an Indian > > >> reader going through Pakistani papers has > asked > > the same question in > > >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions > > about Pakistan and its > > >> citizens that I have come across in the > Indian > > media... > > >> > > >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or > Pakistan's > > government controls the > > >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the > jihadis. Or > > ISI controls the > > >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI > > control the Jihadis. > > >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly > > it's the tail that wags > > >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi > > alliance was a marriage > > >> of convenience, which has broken down > irrevocably. > > Pakistan army has > > >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these > jihadis > > than it ever did > > >> fighting India. > > >> > > >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: > > Let's not forget that > > >> General Musharraf seized power after he was > fired > > from his job as the > > >> army chief by an elected prime minister. > Musharraf > > first appeased > > >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased > them > > again. The country > > >> he left behind has become a very dangerous > place, > > above all for its > > >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in > > sections of the Indian > > >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan > Singh > > a military uniform, > > >> put all the armed forces under his direct > command, > > make his word the > > >> law of the land, and he too will go around > > thumping his chest saying > > >> that it's his destiny to save India from > > Indians . Zardari will never > > >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. > But > > Pakistanis do not > > >> want another Musharraf. > > >> > > >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small > country, > > Pakistan is very > > >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically > as > > well. General > > >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in > the > > north for being > > >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the > same > > time it bombed > > >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists > and > > for subscribing to > > >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban > ethos. > > You have probably > > >> heard the joke about other countries having > armies > > but Pakistan's army > > >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it > > funny. > > >> > > >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's > > nuclear programme is under a > > >> sophisticated command and control system, no > more > > under threat than > > >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are > > threatened by Hindu or Jewish > > >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's > > security establishment's other > > >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, > which in > > the last couple of > > >> years have become its biggest liability. > > >> > > >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then > > Pakistanis have not > > >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a > long > > time that they have > > >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. > Trains > > are late but they > > >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre > > festivals, melas, and > > >> fashion models than a failed state can > > accommodate. To borrow a phrase > > >> from President Zardari, there are lots of > > non-state actors like Abdul > > >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health > services, > > orphanages and > > >> shelters for sick animals. > > >> > > >> It is a deeply religious country: Every > > half-decent election in this > > >> country has proved otherwise. Religious > parties > > have never won more > > >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year > > Pakistan witnessed the > > >> largest civil rights movements in the history > of > > this region. It was > > >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. > But > > since people weren't > > >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, > nobody > > outside Pakistan > > >> took much notice. > > >> > > >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four > > provinces in Pakistan - > > >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any > > popular anti-India > > >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India > as > > enemy-in-chief on > > >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling > > potatoes to India than > > >> destroying it. There is a new breed of > al-Qaida > > inspired jihadis who > > >> hate a woman walking on the streets of > Karachi as > > much as they hate a > > >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. > In > > fact there is not much > > >> that they do not hate: they hate America, > Denmark, > > China CDs, barbers, > > >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan > > recently said that these > > >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but > > nobody takes him > > >> seriously. > > >> > > >> Training camps: There are militant > sanctuaries in > > the tribal areas of > > >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad > or > > Muridke, two favourite > > >> targets for Indian journalists, probably > because > > those are the cities > > >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After > all > > how much training do > > >> you need if you are going to shoot at random > > civilians or blow > > >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone > > thinks a few missiles > > >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a > > lesson, they should > > >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on > the > > map. > > >> > > >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the > > agencies have had a > > >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the > > neighbouring countries. > > >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to > > protecting their own > > >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is > a > > bigger, more notorious > > >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during > the > > jihad against the > > >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad > against > > those very jihadis. > > >> > > >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis > > visiting India till the > > >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told > us > > about India's slums, > > >> and that there was nothing to buy except > > handicrafts and saris. Then > > >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride > that > > nobody slept hungry > > >> in their country. But now, not only do people > > sleep hungry in both the > > >> countries, they also commit suicide because > they > > see nothing but a > > >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden > farmer > > contemplating suicide > > >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her > > children in Karachi > > >> because she can't feed them: this is what > we > > have achieved in our > > >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. > > >> > > >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of > > Exploding Mangoes' > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and > > the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 09:09:34 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan References: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed Saleem Shahzad will also be honoured as someone "talking through his topee", to quote Yasir from an earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his topee" is Pakistan based correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. You can read another report by him on www.bbchindi.com on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the water of nexus between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these groups are part of the state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will give these progressive journalists, the leftist activists and human right activists of Pakistan bullet proof cars. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" To: "taraprakash" ; "Aman Sethi" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan >I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He could >be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full picture. > I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an awesome > catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody knows the > whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? > Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are > killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and > the LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does he > not know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? > I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following > article informative. > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html > Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan > By Syed Saleem Shahzad > > KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) were > sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - as > they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during > their three-day rampage last week. > > What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal > Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched > by elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET, > including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval > commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad. > > This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of > Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the > escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now > arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully > clamp down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section > officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? > > "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a middle-ranking > member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of anonymity. "Had > prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today all mujahideen > would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between India and > Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from > Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there > is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and > pressure and grant victory.) > > The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants > war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem. > > US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in > Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit > to India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message > will be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed > itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot. > > ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) > allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into the > Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) > Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at > the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major > was able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of > his superiors. > Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and it > will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez > Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. > > Militant support > The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a > city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on > November 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai > attack on November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the > garrison city twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting > held in the Office of Strategic Organization. > > He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what > possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET > would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian > Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its > activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in > Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire > against the Pakistani security forces. > > At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant > training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered > Kashmir, were evacuated. > > A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for journalists > in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces along the > border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are > fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that > hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would > support Pakistan if India waged war on the country. > > Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process with > the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for pulling > out the Pakistani troops. > > An almost perfect plan > The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian > Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish > community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. > His information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - > Mossad. > > Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its > well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned > operation in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. > > Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets > immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this > through his revelations of his LET background. > > Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out at > the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high > command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some > junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure > on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. > > But there is a problem. > > Militants tighten their grip > The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy spilling > over from the tribal areas into this province. > > In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from the > provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and > members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the > province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the > ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. > > Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing > through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing > attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. > > In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its well-defined > vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed, could commit > its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force, to the > cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. > > What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its > under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities > start to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could > break loose inside the country. > > Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe > reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as > in the military. > > To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. If > they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely > that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and > Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on > India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region. > > Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, > and potentially as disastrous. > > Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can > be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi wrote: > >> From: Aman Sethi >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >> myths about pakistan >> To: "taraprakash" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM >> Dear Taraprakash, >> I have never denied the presence of militant groups in >> pakistan. That >> there are "links" between armed groups and power >> centres in pakistan >> is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting >> question is >> the nature of these "links" and the nature of the >> state. >> >> If I was to say the "Indian state" has >> connections with terror >> organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would >> then ask - >> okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or >> in the >> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does >> the >> director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant >> commander? >> Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier >> people on >> both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably >> murky waters >> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry >> for the >> mixed metaphor) ... >> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications >> in drawing >> straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. >> best >> a. >> >> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash >> wrote: >> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I >> said in an earlier >> > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the >> batsman as long as >> > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and >> irresponsible to give a state >> > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and >> broad minded to do so. I >> > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India >> has links with Jihadi >> > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to >> destabilize Pakistan. But I >> > will definitely not agree with the claim that >> Pakistani state has no nexus >> > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani >> flag on Red fort as >> > their stated aim. >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman >> Sethi" >> > To: "sarai list" >> >> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM >> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered >> houses - re: 10 myths about >> > pakistan >> > >> > >> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for >> posting this text) and >> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, >> >> >> >> This is in response to a conversation on the >> authenticity/ >> >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed >> Hanif's text that appeared in the Times >> >> of India in the Times of India -and I have >> appended at the end of this >> >> mail. >> >> >> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's >> text (appended below) >> >> interesting is primarily because often when >> reading/learning about >> >> another place - especially through the eyes of >> correspondents - it is >> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For >> weeks I have been >> >> having conversation with friends about how >> pakistan appears to be >> >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really >> knowing that that >> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the >> chasm already - what >> >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no >> brink, no teetering, >> >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. >> >> >> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading >> Slaughterhouse Five - >> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden >> fire-bombing in WWII where, after >> >> describing the devastation of dresden as a >> moonscape utterly ravaged >> >> by carpet bombs, he writes >> >> >> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a >> suburb untouched by fire and >> >> explosions. The guards and americans came at >> nightfall to an innn >> >> which was open for business. There was >> candlelight. There were fires >> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty >> tables ad chairs >> >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds >> with covers turned >> >> down upstairs." >> >> >> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or >> Sebal's incredible >> >> Natural History of Destruction there is the >> tendency to abstract trite >> >> observations like "ordinary people continue >> with their normal lives >> >> even as the world collapses around them." I >> would argue that what >> >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is >> that they remind us >> >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this >> destruction, this >> >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed >> Hanif's text - (without >> >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a >> snapshot into the >> >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. >> >> >> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in >> Delhi, Surat, >> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - >> one is tempted to >> >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of >> implosion and the >> >> embarrassment of "state failure" that >> Indians so happily foist upon >> >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in >> India will readily >> >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter >> what the disaster, we >> >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in >> cricket - the >> >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit >> of doubt. Perhaps >> >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the >> same privileges. >> >> >> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends >> something like this : >> >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans >> could sleep in his stable >> >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz >> coffee and a little beer. >> >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them >> bedding down in the >> >> straw. >> >> "Good Night Americans," he said in >> German, "Sleep well." >> >> >> >> best >> >> a. >> >> >> >> Ten myths about Pakistan >> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >> >> Mohammed Hanif >> >> >> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the >> Indian press can >> >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one >> wonders what place >> >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't >> be surprised if an Indian >> >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked >> the same question in >> >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions >> about Pakistan and its >> >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian >> media... >> >> >> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's >> government controls the >> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or >> ISI controls the >> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI >> control the Jihadis. >> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly >> it's the tail that wags >> >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi >> alliance was a marriage >> >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. >> Pakistan army has >> >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis >> than it ever did >> >> fighting India. >> >> >> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: >> Let's not forget that >> >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired >> from his job as the >> >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf >> first appeased >> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them >> again. The country >> >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, >> above all for its >> >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in >> sections of the Indian >> >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh >> a military uniform, >> >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, >> make his word the >> >> law of the land, and he too will go around >> thumping his chest saying >> >> that it's his destiny to save India from >> Indians . Zardari will never >> >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But >> Pakistanis do not >> >> want another Musharraf. >> >> >> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, >> Pakistan is very >> >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as >> well. General >> >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the >> north for being >> >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same >> time it bombed >> >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and >> for subscribing to >> >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. >> You have probably >> >> heard the joke about other countries having armies >> but Pakistan's army >> >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it >> funny. >> >> >> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's >> nuclear programme is under a >> >> sophisticated command and control system, no more >> under threat than >> >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are >> threatened by Hindu or Jewish >> >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's >> security establishment's other >> >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in >> the last couple of >> >> years have become its biggest liability. >> >> >> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then >> Pakistanis have not >> >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long >> time that they have >> >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains >> are late but they >> >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre >> festivals, melas, and >> >> fashion models than a failed state can >> accommodate. To borrow a phrase >> >> from President Zardari, there are lots of >> non-state actors like Abdul >> >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, >> orphanages and >> >> shelters for sick animals. >> >> >> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every >> half-decent election in this >> >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties >> have never won more >> >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year >> Pakistan witnessed the >> >> largest civil rights movements in the history of >> this region. It was >> >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But >> since people weren't >> >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody >> outside Pakistan >> >> took much notice. >> >> >> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four >> provinces in Pakistan - >> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any >> popular anti-India >> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as >> enemy-in-chief on >> >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling >> potatoes to India than >> >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida >> inspired jihadis who >> >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as >> much as they hate a >> >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In >> fact there is not much >> >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, >> China CDs, barbers, >> >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan >> recently said that these >> >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but >> nobody takes him >> >> seriously. >> >> >> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in >> the tribal areas of >> >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or >> Muridke, two favourite >> >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because >> those are the cities >> >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all >> how much training do >> >> you need if you are going to shoot at random >> civilians or blow >> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone >> thinks a few missiles >> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a >> lesson, they should >> >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the >> map. >> >> >> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the >> agencies have had a >> >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the >> neighbouring countries. >> >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to >> protecting their own >> >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a >> bigger, more notorious >> >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the >> jihad against the >> >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against >> those very jihadis. >> >> >> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis >> visiting India till the >> >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us >> about India's slums, >> >> and that there was nothing to buy except >> handicrafts and saris. Then >> >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that >> nobody slept hungry >> >> in their country. But now, not only do people >> sleep hungry in both the >> >> countries, they also commit suicide because they >> see nothing but a >> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer >> contemplating suicide >> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her >> children in Karachi >> >> because she can't feed them: this is what we >> have achieved in our >> >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >> >> >> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of >> Exploding Mangoes' >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From aman.am at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 09:41:20 2009 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:11:20 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <995a19920901062011m68fff915qff0f27525e7de994@mail.gmail.com> Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of mudslinging (or murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. Hopefully none of us will ever need bulletproof cars. Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who simply says that maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a flawed picture of pakistan is somehow a "human rights activist". I also find it interesting that a "human rights activist" is now suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights activist!" "How dare you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - when people are dying on the streets!" (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents actually kill about 275 people a day in India - http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far more than terror does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by this loss. I'm worried because in the road accident,even the bullet-proof gift of the pakistan government will not help.) Of course one never wants to appear to be a pak-apologist - good heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - what ever that is - i presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must confess a self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive rather than regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that others follow suit. To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan and India are these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing the pipe of peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has little or nothing to do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even the pakistan civil govt is not claiming that. I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to actually try and comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why hanif's piece is of interest - not so much because of the piece - but the reactions to it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his toupee/is a news illiterate/" If one accepts that the civil government and the military and the ISI have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that there is a certain absence of control. At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say - enough is enough - but that is unintelligent - and more importantly - uninteresting. best a. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash wrote: > > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed Saleem Shahzad will also be honoured as someone "talking through his topee", to quote Yasir from an earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his topee" is Pakistan based correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. You can read another report by him on > www.bbchindi.com > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the water of nexus between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these groups are part of the state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will give these progressive journalists, the leftist activists and human right activists of Pakistan bullet proof cars. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" > To: "taraprakash" ; "Aman Sethi" > Cc: "sarai list" > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > > >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full picture. >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody knows the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? >> Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and the LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does he not know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? >> I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following article informative. >> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad >> >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during their three-day rampage last week. >> >> What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched by elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET, including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad. >> >> This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? >> >> "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and pressure and grant victory.) >> >> The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem. >> >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit to India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot. >> >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major was able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his superiors. >> Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. >> >> Militant support >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on November 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting held in the Office of Strategic Organization. >> >> He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the Pakistani security forces. >> >> At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, were evacuated. >> >> A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces along the border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would support Pakistan if India waged war on the country. >> >> Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for pulling out the Pakistani troops. >> >> An almost perfect plan >> The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. His information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad. >> >> Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned operation in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. >> >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this through his revelations of his LET background. >> >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. >> >> But there is a problem. >> >> Militants tighten their grip >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy spilling over from the tribal areas into this province. >> >> In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. >> >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. >> >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed, could commit its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force, to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. >> >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities start to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break loose inside the country. >> >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as in the military. >> >> To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region. >> >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, and potentially as disastrous. >> >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com >> >> >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi wrote: >> >>> From: Aman Sethi >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan >>> To: "taraprakash" >>> Cc: "sarai list" >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM >>> Dear Taraprakash, >>> I have never denied the presence of militant groups in >>> pakistan. That >>> there are "links" between armed groups and power >>> centres in pakistan >>> is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting >>> question is >>> the nature of these "links" and the nature of the >>> state. >>> >>> If I was to say the "Indian state" has >>> connections with terror >>> organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would >>> then ask - >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or >>> in the >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does >>> the >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant >>> commander? >>> Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier >>> people on >>> both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably >>> murky waters >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry >>> for the >>> mixed metaphor) ... >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications >>> in drawing >>> straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. >>> best >>> a. >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash >>> wrote: >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I >>> said in an earlier >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the >>> batsman as long as >>> > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and >>> irresponsible to give a state >>> > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and >>> broad minded to do so. I >>> > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India >>> has links with Jihadi >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I >>> > will definitely not agree with the claim that >>> Pakistani state has no nexus >>> > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani >>> flag on Red fort as >>> > their stated aim. >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman >>> Sethi" >>> > To: "sarai list" >>> >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered >>> houses - re: 10 myths about >>> > pakistan >>> > >>> > >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for >>> posting this text) and >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, >>> >> >>> >> This is in response to a conversation on the >>> authenticity/ >>> >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the Times >>> >> of India in the Times of India -and I have >>> appended at the end of this >>> >> mail. >>> >> >>> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's >>> text (appended below) >>> >> interesting is primarily because often when >>> reading/learning about >>> >> another place - especially through the eyes of >>> correspondents - it is >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For >>> weeks I have been >>> >> having conversation with friends about how >>> pakistan appears to be >>> >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really >>> knowing that that >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the >>> chasm already - what >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no >>> brink, no teetering, >>> >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. >>> >> >>> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading >>> Slaughterhouse Five - >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after >>> >> describing the devastation of dresden as a >>> moonscape utterly ravaged >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes >>> >> >>> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a >>> suburb untouched by fire and >>> >> explosions. The guards and americans came at >>> nightfall to an innn >>> >> which was open for business. There was >>> candlelight. There were fires >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty >>> tables ad chairs >>> >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds >>> with covers turned >>> >> down upstairs." >>> >> >>> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or >>> Sebal's incredible >>> >> Natural History of Destruction there is the >>> tendency to abstract trite >>> >> observations like "ordinary people continue >>> with their normal lives >>> >> even as the world collapses around them." I >>> would argue that what >>> >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is >>> that they remind us >>> >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this >>> destruction, this >>> >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed >>> Hanif's text - (without >>> >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a >>> snapshot into the >>> >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. >>> >> >>> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in >>> Delhi, Surat, >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - >>> one is tempted to >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of >>> implosion and the >>> >> embarrassment of "state failure" that >>> Indians so happily foist upon >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in >>> India will readily >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter >>> what the disaster, we >>> >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in >>> cricket - the >>> >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit >>> of doubt. Perhaps >>> >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the >>> same privileges. >>> >> >>> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends >>> something like this : >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans >>> could sleep in his stable >>> >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz >>> coffee and a little beer. >>> >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them >>> bedding down in the >>> >> straw. >>> >> "Good Night Americans," he said in >>> German, "Sleep well." >>> >> >>> >> best >>> >> a. >>> >> >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >>> >> Mohammed Hanif >>> >> >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the >>> Indian press can >>> >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one >>> wonders what place >>> >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't >>> be surprised if an Indian >>> >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked >>> the same question in >>> >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions >>> about Pakistan and its >>> >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian >>> media... >>> >> >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's >>> government controls the >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or >>> ISI controls the >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI >>> control the Jihadis. >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly >>> it's the tail that wags >>> >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi >>> alliance was a marriage >>> >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. >>> Pakistan army has >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis >>> than it ever did >>> >> fighting India. >>> >> >>> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: >>> Let's not forget that >>> >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired >>> from his job as the >>> >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf >>> first appeased >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them >>> again. The country >>> >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, >>> above all for its >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in >>> sections of the Indian >>> >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh >>> a military uniform, >>> >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, >>> make his word the >>> >> law of the land, and he too will go around >>> thumping his chest saying >>> >> that it's his destiny to save India from >>> Indians . Zardari will never >>> >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But >>> Pakistanis do not >>> >> want another Musharraf. >>> >> >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, >>> Pakistan is very >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as >>> well. General >>> >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the >>> north for being >>> >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same >>> time it bombed >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and >>> for subscribing to >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. >>> You have probably >>> >> heard the joke about other countries having armies >>> but Pakistan's army >>> >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it >>> funny. >>> >> >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's >>> nuclear programme is under a >>> >> sophisticated command and control system, no more >>> under threat than >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish >>> >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's >>> security establishment's other >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in >>> the last couple of >>> >> years have become its biggest liability. >>> >> >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then >>> Pakistanis have not >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long >>> time that they have >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains >>> are late but they >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre >>> festivals, melas, and >>> >> fashion models than a failed state can >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase >>> >> from President Zardari, there are lots of >>> non-state actors like Abdul >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, >>> orphanages and >>> >> shelters for sick animals. >>> >> >>> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every >>> half-decent election in this >>> >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties >>> have never won more >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year >>> Pakistan witnessed the >>> >> largest civil rights movements in the history of >>> this region. It was >>> >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But >>> since people weren't >>> >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody >>> outside Pakistan >>> >> took much notice. >>> >> >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four >>> provinces in Pakistan - >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any >>> popular anti-India >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as >>> enemy-in-chief on >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling >>> potatoes to India than >>> >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida >>> inspired jihadis who >>> >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as >>> much as they hate a >>> >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In >>> fact there is not much >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, >>> China CDs, barbers, >>> >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan >>> recently said that these >>> >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but >>> nobody takes him >>> >> seriously. >>> >> >>> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in >>> the tribal areas of >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or >>> Muridke, two favourite >>> >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because >>> those are the cities >>> >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all >>> how much training do >>> >> you need if you are going to shoot at random >>> civilians or blow >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone >>> thinks a few missiles >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a >>> lesson, they should >>> >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the >>> map. >>> >> >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the >>> agencies have had a >>> >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the >>> neighbouring countries. >>> >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to >>> protecting their own >>> >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a >>> bigger, more notorious >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the >>> jihad against the >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against >>> those very jihadis. >>> >> >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis >>> visiting India till the >>> >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us >>> about India's slums, >>> >> and that there was nothing to buy except >>> handicrafts and saris. Then >>> >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that >>> nobody slept hungry >>> >> in their country. But now, not only do people >>> sleep hungry in both the >>> >> countries, they also commit suicide because they >>> see nothing but a >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer >>> contemplating suicide >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her >>> children in Karachi >>> >> because she can't feed them: this is what we >>> have achieved in our >>> >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >>> >> >>> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of >>> Exploding Mangoes' >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >>> >> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >>> the city. >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> List archive: >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >>> header. >>> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 11:54:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:24:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <995a19920901062011m68fff915qff0f27525e7de994@mail.gmail.com> References: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <995a19920901062011m68fff915qff0f27525e7de994@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901062224w22d5e55ao7d716b76b0057ace@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I think if we invest some time in thinking about the big picture and consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can perhaps arrive at a better understanding of the situation. What we are seeing in India and Pakistan as suggested by the recent spate of events in both the countries and interpretations of these events, is a ripening up of the tension of the idea of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear notion of the State in the subcontinent, has produced certain dilemmas. These dilemmas are translated and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily formal in their orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass we witness an ugly churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we may invest our energies to arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take a position to suspend any judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's point of view is invalid or that Rahul's position is right on target or Taraprakash is way off the mark but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we need to peer more closely and throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks and whites apart. Warm regards Taha On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi wrote: > Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of mudslinging (or > murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. Hopefully none of > us will ever need bulletproof cars. > > Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who simply says that > maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a flawed picture > of pakistan is somehow a "human rights activist". > I also find it interesting that a "human rights activist" is now > suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights activist!" "How dare > you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - when people are > dying on the streets!" > > (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents actually kill about > 275 people a day in India - > http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far more than terror > does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by this loss. I'm > worried because in the road accident,even the bullet-proof gift of the > pakistan government will not help.) > > Of course one never wants to appear to be a pak-apologist - good > heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - what ever that is - i > presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must confess a > self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive rather than > regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that others follow suit. > > To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan and India are > these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing the pipe of > peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has little or nothing to > do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even the pakistan > civil govt is not claiming that. > I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to actually try and > comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why hanif's piece is > of interest - not so much because of the piece - but the reactions to > it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his toupee/is a news > illiterate/" > > If one accepts that the civil government and the military and the ISI > have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that there is a > certain absence of control. > > At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say - enough is > enough - but that is unintelligent - and more importantly - > uninteresting. > best > a. > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash > wrote: > > > > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed Saleem Shahzad will also > be honoured as someone "talking through his topee", to quote Yasir from an > earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his topee" is Pakistan based > correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. You can read another > report by him on > > www.bbchindi.com > > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against > India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the water of nexus > between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these groups are part of the > state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will give these progressive > journalists, the leftist activists and human right activists of Pakistan > bullet proof cars. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" < > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > To: "taraprakash" ; "Aman Sethi" gmail.com> > > Cc: "sarai list" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 > myths about pakistan > > > > > >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He > could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full > picture. > >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an > awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody knows > the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? > >> Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are > killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and the > LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does he not > know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? > >> I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following > article informative. > >> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html > >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan > >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad > >> > >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) > were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - > as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during > their three-day rampage last week. > >> > >> What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal > Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched by > elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET, > including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval > commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad. > >> > >> This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of > >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the > escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now > arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp > down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section > officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? > >> > >> "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a > middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of > anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today > all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between > India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from > Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there > is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and > pressure and grant victory.) > >> > >> The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants > war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem. > >> > >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in > Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit to > India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will > be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed itself > Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot. > >> > >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) > allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into the > Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) > Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at the > top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major was > able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his > superiors. > >> Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and > it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez > Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. > >> > >> Militant support > >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a > city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on November > 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on > November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city > twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting held in the Office > of Strategic Organization. > >> > >> He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what > possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET > would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian > Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its activities > in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in Pakistan's > troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the > Pakistani security forces. > >> > >> At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant > training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered > Kashmir, were evacuated. > >> > >> A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for journalists > in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces along the > border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are > fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that hardline > Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would support Pakistan > if India waged war on the country. > >> > >> Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process with > the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for pulling > out the Pakistani troops. > >> > >> An almost perfect plan > >> The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian > Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish > community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. His > information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad. > >> > >> Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its > well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned operation > in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. > >> > >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets > immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this > through his revelations of his LET background. > >> > >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out > at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high > command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some > junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure on > Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. > >> > >> But there is a problem. > >> > >> Militants tighten their grip > >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy > spilling over from the tribal areas into this province. > >> > >> In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from > the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and > members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the > province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the > ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. > >> > >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing > through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing > attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. > >> > >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its > well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed, > could commit its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force, > to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. > >> > >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its > under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities start > to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break > loose inside the country. > >> > >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe > reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as in > the military. > >> > >> To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. > If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely > that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and > Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on > India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region. > >> > >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, > and potentially as disastrous. > >> > >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can > be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi wrote: > >> > >>> From: Aman Sethi > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 > myths about pakistan > >>> To: "taraprakash" > >>> Cc: "sarai list" > >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM > >>> Dear Taraprakash, > >>> I have never denied the presence of militant groups in > >>> pakistan. That > >>> there are "links" between armed groups and power > >>> centres in pakistan > >>> is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting > >>> question is > >>> the nature of these "links" and the nature of the > >>> state. > >>> > >>> If I was to say the "Indian state" has > >>> connections with terror > >>> organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would > >>> then ask - > >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or > >>> in the > >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does > >>> the > >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant > >>> commander? > >>> Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier > >>> people on > >>> both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably > >>> murky waters > >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry > >>> for the > >>> mixed metaphor) ... > >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications > >>> in drawing > >>> straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. > >>> best > >>> a. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash > >>> wrote: > >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I > >>> said in an earlier > >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the > >>> batsman as long as > >>> > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and > >>> irresponsible to give a state > >>> > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and > >>> broad minded to do so. I > >>> > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India > >>> has links with Jihadi > >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to > >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I > >>> > will definitely not agree with the claim that > >>> Pakistani state has no nexus > >>> > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani > >>> flag on Red fort as > >>> > their stated aim. > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman > >>> Sethi" > >>> > To: "sarai list" > >>> > >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM > >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered > >>> houses - re: 10 myths about > >>> > pakistan > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for > >>> posting this text) and > >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, > >>> >> > >>> >> This is in response to a conversation on the > >>> authenticity/ > >>> >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed > >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the Times > >>> >> of India in the Times of India -and I have > >>> appended at the end of this > >>> >> mail. > >>> >> > >>> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's > >>> text (appended below) > >>> >> interesting is primarily because often when > >>> reading/learning about > >>> >> another place - especially through the eyes of > >>> correspondents - it is > >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For > >>> weeks I have been > >>> >> having conversation with friends about how > >>> pakistan appears to be > >>> >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really > >>> knowing that that > >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the > >>> chasm already - what > >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no > >>> brink, no teetering, > >>> >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. > >>> >> > >>> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading > >>> Slaughterhouse Five - > >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden > >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after > >>> >> describing the devastation of dresden as a > >>> moonscape utterly ravaged > >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes > >>> >> > >>> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a > >>> suburb untouched by fire and > >>> >> explosions. The guards and americans came at > >>> nightfall to an innn > >>> >> which was open for business. There was > >>> candlelight. There were fires > >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty > >>> tables ad chairs > >>> >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds > >>> with covers turned > >>> >> down upstairs." > >>> >> > >>> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or > >>> Sebal's incredible > >>> >> Natural History of Destruction there is the > >>> tendency to abstract trite > >>> >> observations like "ordinary people continue > >>> with their normal lives > >>> >> even as the world collapses around them." I > >>> would argue that what > >>> >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is > >>> that they remind us > >>> >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this > >>> destruction, this > >>> >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed > >>> Hanif's text - (without > >>> >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a > >>> snapshot into the > >>> >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. > >>> >> > >>> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in > >>> Delhi, Surat, > >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - > >>> one is tempted to > >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of > >>> implosion and the > >>> >> embarrassment of "state failure" that > >>> Indians so happily foist upon > >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in > >>> India will readily > >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter > >>> what the disaster, we > >>> >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in > >>> cricket - the > >>> >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit > >>> of doubt. Perhaps > >>> >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the > >>> same privileges. > >>> >> > >>> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends > >>> something like this : > >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans > >>> could sleep in his stable > >>> >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz > >>> coffee and a little beer. > >>> >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them > >>> bedding down in the > >>> >> straw. > >>> >> "Good Night Americans," he said in > >>> German, "Sleep well." > >>> >> > >>> >> best > >>> >> a. > >>> >> > >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan > >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > >>> >> Mohammed Hanif > >>> >> > >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the > >>> Indian press can > >>> >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one > >>> wonders what place > >>> >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't > >>> be surprised if an Indian > >>> >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked > >>> the same question in > >>> >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions > >>> about Pakistan and its > >>> >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian > >>> media... > >>> >> > >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's > >>> government controls the > >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or > >>> ISI controls the > >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI > >>> control the Jihadis. > >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly > >>> it's the tail that wags > >>> >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi > >>> alliance was a marriage > >>> >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. > >>> Pakistan army has > >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis > >>> than it ever did > >>> >> fighting India. > >>> >> > >>> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: > >>> Let's not forget that > >>> >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired > >>> from his job as the > >>> >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf > >>> first appeased > >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them > >>> again. The country > >>> >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, > >>> above all for its > >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in > >>> sections of the Indian > >>> >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh > >>> a military uniform, > >>> >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, > >>> make his word the > >>> >> law of the land, and he too will go around > >>> thumping his chest saying > >>> >> that it's his destiny to save India from > >>> Indians . Zardari will never > >>> >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But > >>> Pakistanis do not > >>> >> want another Musharraf. > >>> >> > >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, > >>> Pakistan is very > >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as > >>> well. General > >>> >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the > >>> north for being > >>> >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same > >>> time it bombed > >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and > >>> for subscribing to > >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. > >>> You have probably > >>> >> heard the joke about other countries having armies > >>> but Pakistan's army > >>> >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it > >>> funny. > >>> >> > >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's > >>> nuclear programme is under a > >>> >> sophisticated command and control system, no more > >>> under threat than > >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are > >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish > >>> >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's > >>> security establishment's other > >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in > >>> the last couple of > >>> >> years have become its biggest liability. > >>> >> > >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then > >>> Pakistanis have not > >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long > >>> time that they have > >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains > >>> are late but they > >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre > >>> festivals, melas, and > >>> >> fashion models than a failed state can > >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase > >>> >> from President Zardari, there are lots of > >>> non-state actors like Abdul > >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, > >>> orphanages and > >>> >> shelters for sick animals. > >>> >> > >>> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every > >>> half-decent election in this > >>> >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties > >>> have never won more > >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year > >>> Pakistan witnessed the > >>> >> largest civil rights movements in the history of > >>> this region. It was > >>> >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But > >>> since people weren't > >>> >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody > >>> outside Pakistan > >>> >> took much notice. > >>> >> > >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four > >>> provinces in Pakistan - > >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any > >>> popular anti-India > >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as > >>> enemy-in-chief on > >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling > >>> potatoes to India than > >>> >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida > >>> inspired jihadis who > >>> >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as > >>> much as they hate a > >>> >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In > >>> fact there is not much > >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, > >>> China CDs, barbers, > >>> >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan > >>> recently said that these > >>> >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but > >>> nobody takes him > >>> >> seriously. > >>> >> > >>> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in > >>> the tribal areas of > >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or > >>> Muridke, two favourite > >>> >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because > >>> those are the cities > >>> >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all > >>> how much training do > >>> >> you need if you are going to shoot at random > >>> civilians or blow > >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone > >>> thinks a few missiles > >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a > >>> lesson, they should > >>> >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the > >>> map. > >>> >> > >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the > >>> agencies have had a > >>> >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the > >>> neighbouring countries. > >>> >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to > >>> protecting their own > >>> >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a > >>> bigger, more notorious > >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the > >>> jihad against the > >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against > >>> those very jihadis. > >>> >> > >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis > >>> visiting India till the > >>> >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us > >>> about India's slums, > >>> >> and that there was nothing to buy except > >>> handicrafts and saris. Then > >>> >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that > >>> nobody slept hungry > >>> >> in their country. But now, not only do people > >>> sleep hungry in both the > >>> >> countries, they also commit suicide because they > >>> see nothing but a > >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer > >>> contemplating suicide > >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her > >>> children in Karachi > >>> >> because she can't feed them: this is what we > >>> have achieved in our > >>> >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. > >>> >> > >>> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of > >>> Exploding Mangoes' > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > >>> >> _________________________________________ > >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >>> the city. > >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> >> To unsubscribe: > >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> >> List archive: > >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > >>> header. > >>> To unsubscribe: > >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rajeshr at csds.in Wed Jan 7 12:15:37 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:15:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `Secular Theology and Occidental Imperial Formation: The Latin Roots'; CSDS, Jan 13, 1430 Message-ID: *Tuesday, 13th January, 2009* *Peter Fitzpatrick* will speak on Secular Theology and Occidental Imperial Formation: The Latin Roots at *2:30 PM* in the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* The argument here is that the template of modern imperialism is to be found in a theologic advanced in the teachings of Francisco de Vitoria, especially those relating to the Spanish colonisation of the Americas. The coherence and the continuance of that template in its 'secular' rendition is found to depend on the operative adoption, yet sustained forgetting, of that theologic. Then, by way of a conclusion, this combined adoption and forgetting is extended to the imperial affect within occidental political formation. Peter Fitzpatrick is currently Anniversary Professor of Law at Birkbeck, University of London and Honorary Professor of Law in the University of Kent. In 2007 he was given the James Boyd White Award by The Association for the Study of Law, Culture and the Humanities. He has taught at universities in Europe, North America and Papua New Guinea and published many books on legal philosophy, law and social theory, law and racism, and imperialism, the latest one being *Law as Resistance: Modernism, Imperialism, Legalism*(Ashgate, 2008). Outside the academy he has been in an international legal practice and was also in the Prime Minister's Office in Papua New Guinea for several years. From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Jan 7 12:22:37 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:22:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-43 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48AD06BF-847C-4557-925C-5F77EF485182@sarai.net> dear Taha, Thanks for taking the list to a serious and uncharted terrain. I have a suggestion. It maybe worthwhile to blog all these news items and the blog links, excerpts and your annotations to the list to keep us aware and generate a discussion. This way the blog will become an important site for all of us to know the various ways in which you are tracing the evolution of the MNIC card etc. It will be a vital archive and your annotations will keep us on the toe. Greetings for a stimulating 2009. warmly Jeebesh On 07-Jan-09, at 3:09 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > http://www.secureidnews.com/2008/01/08/id-cards-for-delhi-citizens-trigger-intense-debate > > SecureIDNews > Government ID, Smart Cards, Identification and Authentication > Technology > > ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate > > Tuesday, January 8, 2008 in News > > The Indian government mandating all citizens in Delhi carry ID cards > after January 15th is causing debate over a police state versus > security against terrorists. The opposition party (Bhartiya Janata > Party, BJP) believes in a national citizen register for use in > passports, voting and health care while some in Congress feel it would > give the police too much power. At the time of launching the scheme in > India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main > propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a > credible individual identification system for improving the security > conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the > citizen-government interface. > > ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate > > * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists > * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for > 'police raj' > > NEW DELHI — The government order mandating all citizens living in > Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 lest to > invite police action has triggered an intense debate. > > Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) on > Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to have > the record of every Indian citizen in the country. > > "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as it > would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that > may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people may > have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP > spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move initiated > in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose > national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national > citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. > > Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket and > have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure micro > processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes > including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. > > Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards will > not only help in enhancing national security but they would also help > in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal > immigrants. > > Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties > believed that such cards may become a potential for the police raj and > harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card may be > even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA regime, a > Congress leader pointed out. > > Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was > initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance > was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 > Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA > government has continued the pilot project launched in selected > sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there > appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging that > the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in > increasing the national security. > > The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition > leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in > identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in > India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to > once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for > increasing the national security. > > As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the > multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the citizens > of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. > > The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and > preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub-districts of > Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, > Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and > Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the > individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who are 18 > and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries > around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand > and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or > Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers issued > at birth for all official transactions. > > A debate continues in the countries like United States and United > Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already > have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the > identification purposes. > > At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the > government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose > National ID cards is to provide a credible individual identification > system for improving the security conditions and to help the > e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. [end] > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 13:28:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:58:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-43 In-Reply-To: <48AD06BF-847C-4557-925C-5F77EF485182@sarai.net> References: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> <48AD06BF-847C-4557-925C-5F77EF485182@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901062358u550b381cl5d62b29aef3cd3a0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, I think creating a blog is a brilliant idea. It may work as a distinct repository for all the materials related to the MNIC. I completely support any initiative in this regard. My personal interest is to however use the platform provided by the reader-list as a blog or a repository. The reason for this is I have often come across many practitioners of research, especially academic research in the last three or so years that I have worked in the sector and I have sensed a feeling of insecurity and over protectiveness in so far their material sources is concerned. The premise is usually that an academician or a researcher is usually as good or as bad as her resources. I want to work against this notion and create as public a research base as possible because I think with any sort of research we are essentially dealing with questions pertaining to epistemology and I think, it will be good for all us, if we can create an environment of public and collaborative knowledge based on shared research. :) rather than stress on purely individual forms of knowledge production which is more hierarchical in nature and is dependent on institutional protocols of knowledge dissemination. Warm regards Taha On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear Taha, > > Thanks for taking the list to a serious and uncharted terrain. I have > a suggestion. It maybe worthwhile to blog all these news items and the > blog links, excerpts and your annotations to the list to keep us aware > and generate a discussion. This way the blog will become an important > site for all of us to know the various ways in which you are tracing > the evolution of the MNIC card etc. It will be a vital archive and > your annotations will keep us on the toe. > > Greetings for a stimulating 2009. > > warmly > Jeebesh > > On 07-Jan-09, at 3:09 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > > > > http://www.secureidnews.com/2008/01/08/id-cards-for-delhi-citizens-trigger-intense-debate > > > > SecureIDNews > > Government ID, Smart Cards, Identification and Authentication > > Technology > > > > ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate > > > > Tuesday, January 8, 2008 in News > > > > The Indian government mandating all citizens in Delhi carry ID cards > > after January 15th is causing debate over a police state versus > > security against terrorists. The opposition party (Bhartiya Janata > > Party, BJP) believes in a national citizen register for use in > > passports, voting and health care while some in Congress feel it would > > give the police too much power. At the time of launching the scheme in > > India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main > > propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a > > credible individual identification system for improving the security > > conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the > > citizen-government interface. > > > > ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate > > > > * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists > > * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for > > 'police raj' > > > > NEW DELHI — The government order mandating all citizens living in > > Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 lest to > > invite police action has triggered an intense debate. > > > > Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) on > > Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to have > > the record of every Indian citizen in the country. > > > > "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as it > > would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that > > may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people may > > have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP > > spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move initiated > > in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose > > national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national > > citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. > > > > Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket and > > have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure micro > > processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes > > including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. > > > > Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards will > > not only help in enhancing national security but they would also help > > in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal > > immigrants. > > > > Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties > > believed that such cards may become a potential for the police raj and > > harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card may be > > even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA regime, a > > Congress leader pointed out. > > > > Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was > > initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance > > was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 > > Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA > > government has continued the pilot project launched in selected > > sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there > > appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging that > > the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in > > increasing the national security. > > > > The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition > > leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in > > identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in > > India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to > > once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for > > increasing the national security. > > > > As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the > > multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the citizens > > of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. > > > > The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and > > preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub-districts of > > Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, > > Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and > > Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the > > individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who are 18 > > and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries > > around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand > > and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or > > Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers issued > > at birth for all official transactions. > > > > A debate continues in the countries like United States and United > > Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already > > have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the > > identification purposes. > > > > At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the > > government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose > > National ID cards is to provide a credible individual identification > > system for improving the security conditions and to help the > > e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. [end] > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From aman.am at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 13:42:02 2009 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 03:12:02 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901062224w22d5e55ao7d716b76b0057ace@mail.gmail.com> References: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <995a19920901062011m68fff915qff0f27525e7de994@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901062224w22d5e55ao7d716b76b0057ace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <995a19920901070012k55bc0cc8k69de1b54aa727858@mail.gmail.com> i agree a. On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear all, > > I think if we invest some time in thinking about the big picture and > consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can perhaps arrive at a better > understanding of the situation. What we are seeing in India and Pakistan as > suggested by the recent spate of events in both the countries and > interpretations of these events, is a ripening up of the tension of the idea > of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear notion of the State in the > subcontinent, has produced certain dilemmas. These dilemmas are translated > and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily formal in their > orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass we witness an ugly > churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we may invest our energies to > arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take a position to suspend any > judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's point of view is invalid or > that Rahul's position is right on target or Taraprakash is way off the mark > but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we need to peer more closely and > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks > and whites apart. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi wrote: > >> Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of mudslinging (or >> murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. Hopefully none of >> us will ever need bulletproof cars. >> >> Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who simply says that >> maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a flawed picture >> of pakistan is somehow a "human rights activist". >> I also find it interesting that a "human rights activist" is now >> suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights activist!" "How dare >> you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - when people are >> dying on the streets!" >> >> (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents actually kill about >> 275 people a day in India - >> http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far more than terror >> does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by this loss. I'm >> worried because in the road accident,even the bullet-proof gift of the >> pakistan government will not help.) >> >> Of course one never wants to appear to be a pak-apologist - good >> heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - what ever that is - i >> presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must confess a >> self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive rather than >> regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that others follow suit. >> >> To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan and India are >> these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing the pipe of >> peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has little or nothing to >> do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even the pakistan >> civil govt is not claiming that. >> I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to actually try and >> comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why hanif's piece is >> of interest - not so much because of the piece - but the reactions to >> it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his toupee/is a news >> illiterate/" >> >> If one accepts that the civil government and the military and the ISI >> have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that there is a >> certain absence of control. >> >> At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say - enough is >> enough - but that is unintelligent - and more importantly - >> uninteresting. >> best >> a. >> >> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash >> wrote: >> > >> > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed Saleem Shahzad will also >> be honoured as someone "talking through his topee", to quote Yasir from an >> earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his topee" is Pakistan based >> correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. You can read another >> report by him on >> > www.bbchindi.com >> > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against >> India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the water of nexus >> between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these groups are part of the >> state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will give these progressive >> journalists, the leftist activists and human right activists of Pakistan >> bullet proof cars. >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" < >> rahul_capri at yahoo.com> >> > To: "taraprakash" ; "Aman Sethi" > gmail.com> >> > Cc: "sarai list" >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >> myths about pakistan >> > >> > >> >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He >> could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full >> picture. >> >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an >> awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody knows >> the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? >> >> Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are >> killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and the >> LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does he not >> know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? >> >> I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following >> article informative. >> >> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html >> >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan >> >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad >> >> >> >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) >> were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - >> as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during >> their three-day rampage last week. >> >> >> >> What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal >> Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched by >> elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET, >> including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval >> commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad. >> >> >> >> This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of >> >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the >> escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now >> arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp >> down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section >> officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? >> >> >> >> "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a >> middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of >> anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today >> all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between >> India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from >> Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there >> is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and >> pressure and grant victory.) >> >> >> >> The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants >> war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem. >> >> >> >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in >> Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit to >> India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will >> be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed itself >> Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot. >> >> >> >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a >> major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into >> the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) >> Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at the >> top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major was >> able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his >> superiors. >> >> Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and >> it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez >> Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. >> >> >> >> Militant support >> >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a >> city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on November >> 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on >> November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city >> twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting held in the Office >> of Strategic Organization. >> >> >> >> He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what >> possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET >> would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian >> Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its activities >> in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in Pakistan's >> troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the >> Pakistani security forces. >> >> >> >> At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant >> training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered >> Kashmir, were evacuated. >> >> >> >> A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for >> journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces >> along the border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where >> they are fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that >> hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would support >> Pakistan if India waged war on the country. >> >> >> >> Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process >> with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for >> pulling out the Pakistani troops. >> >> >> >> An almost perfect plan >> >> The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian >> Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish >> community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. His >> information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad. >> >> >> >> Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its >> well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned operation >> in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. >> >> >> >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets >> immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this >> through his revelations of his LET background. >> >> >> >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out >> at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high >> command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some >> junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure on >> Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. >> >> >> >> But there is a problem. >> >> >> >> Militants tighten their grip >> >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy >> spilling over from the tribal areas into this province. >> >> >> >> In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from >> the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and >> members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the >> province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the >> ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. >> >> >> >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing >> through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing >> attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in >> supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. >> >> >> >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its >> well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed, >> could commit its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force, >> to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. >> >> >> >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its >> under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities start >> to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break >> loose inside the country. >> >> >> >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe >> reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as in >> the military. >> >> >> >> To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. >> If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely >> that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and >> Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n >> Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on >> India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region. >> >> >> >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, >> and potentially as disastrous. >> >> >> >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He >> can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Aman Sethi >> >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >> myths about pakistan >> >>> To: "taraprakash" >> >>> Cc: "sarai list" >> >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM >> >>> Dear Taraprakash, >> >>> I have never denied the presence of militant groups in >> >>> pakistan. That >> >>> there are "links" between armed groups and power >> >>> centres in pakistan >> >>> is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting >> >>> question is >> >>> the nature of these "links" and the nature of the >> >>> state. >> >>> >> >>> If I was to say the "Indian state" has >> >>> connections with terror >> >>> organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would >> >>> then ask - >> >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or >> >>> in the >> >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does >> >>> the >> >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant >> >>> commander? >> >>> Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier >> >>> people on >> >>> both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably >> >>> murky waters >> >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry >> >>> for the >> >>> mixed metaphor) ... >> >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications >> >>> in drawing >> >>> straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. >> >>> best >> >>> a. >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I >> >>> said in an earlier >> >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the >> >>> batsman as long as >> >>> > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and >> >>> irresponsible to give a state >> >>> > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and >> >>> broad minded to do so. I >> >>> > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India >> >>> has links with Jihadi >> >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to >> >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I >> >>> > will definitely not agree with the claim that >> >>> Pakistani state has no nexus >> >>> > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani >> >>> flag on Red fort as >> >>> > their stated aim. >> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman >> >>> Sethi" >> >>> > To: "sarai list" >> >>> >> >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM >> >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered >> >>> houses - re: 10 myths about >> >>> > pakistan >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for >> >>> posting this text) and >> >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, >> >>> >> >> >>> >> This is in response to a conversation on the >> >>> authenticity/ >> >>> >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed >> >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the Times >> >>> >> of India in the Times of India -and I have >> >>> appended at the end of this >> >>> >> mail. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's >> >>> text (appended below) >> >>> >> interesting is primarily because often when >> >>> reading/learning about >> >>> >> another place - especially through the eyes of >> >>> correspondents - it is >> >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For >> >>> weeks I have been >> >>> >> having conversation with friends about how >> >>> pakistan appears to be >> >>> >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really >> >>> knowing that that >> >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the >> >>> chasm already - what >> >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no >> >>> brink, no teetering, >> >>> >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading >> >>> Slaughterhouse Five - >> >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden >> >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after >> >>> >> describing the devastation of dresden as a >> >>> moonscape utterly ravaged >> >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes >> >>> >> >> >>> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a >> >>> suburb untouched by fire and >> >>> >> explosions. The guards and americans came at >> >>> nightfall to an innn >> >>> >> which was open for business. There was >> >>> candlelight. There were fires >> >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty >> >>> tables ad chairs >> >>> >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds >> >>> with covers turned >> >>> >> down upstairs." >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or >> >>> Sebal's incredible >> >>> >> Natural History of Destruction there is the >> >>> tendency to abstract trite >> >>> >> observations like "ordinary people continue >> >>> with their normal lives >> >>> >> even as the world collapses around them." I >> >>> would argue that what >> >>> >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is >> >>> that they remind us >> >>> >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this >> >>> destruction, this >> >>> >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed >> >>> Hanif's text - (without >> >>> >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a >> >>> snapshot into the >> >>> >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in >> >>> Delhi, Surat, >> >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - >> >>> one is tempted to >> >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of >> >>> implosion and the >> >>> >> embarrassment of "state failure" that >> >>> Indians so happily foist upon >> >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in >> >>> India will readily >> >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter >> >>> what the disaster, we >> >>> >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in >> >>> cricket - the >> >>> >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit >> >>> of doubt. Perhaps >> >>> >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the >> >>> same privileges. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends >> >>> something like this : >> >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans >> >>> could sleep in his stable >> >>> >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz >> >>> coffee and a little beer. >> >>> >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them >> >>> bedding down in the >> >>> >> straw. >> >>> >> "Good Night Americans," he said in >> >>> German, "Sleep well." >> >>> >> >> >>> >> best >> >>> >> a. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan >> >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >> >>> >> Mohammed Hanif >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the >> >>> Indian press can >> >>> >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one >> >>> wonders what place >> >>> >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't >> >>> be surprised if an Indian >> >>> >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked >> >>> the same question in >> >>> >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions >> >>> about Pakistan and its >> >>> >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian >> >>> media... >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's >> >>> government controls the >> >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or >> >>> ISI controls the >> >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI >> >>> control the Jihadis. >> >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly >> >>> it's the tail that wags >> >>> >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi >> >>> alliance was a marriage >> >>> >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. >> >>> Pakistan army has >> >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis >> >>> than it ever did >> >>> >> fighting India. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: >> >>> Let's not forget that >> >>> >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired >> >>> from his job as the >> >>> >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf >> >>> first appeased >> >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them >> >>> again. The country >> >>> >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, >> >>> above all for its >> >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in >> >>> sections of the Indian >> >>> >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh >> >>> a military uniform, >> >>> >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, >> >>> make his word the >> >>> >> law of the land, and he too will go around >> >>> thumping his chest saying >> >>> >> that it's his destiny to save India from >> >>> Indians . Zardari will never >> >>> >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But >> >>> Pakistanis do not >> >>> >> want another Musharraf. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, >> >>> Pakistan is very >> >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as >> >>> well. General >> >>> >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the >> >>> north for being >> >>> >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same >> >>> time it bombed >> >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and >> >>> for subscribing to >> >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. >> >>> You have probably >> >>> >> heard the joke about other countries having armies >> >>> but Pakistan's army >> >>> >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it >> >>> funny. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's >> >>> nuclear programme is under a >> >>> >> sophisticated command and control system, no more >> >>> under threat than >> >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are >> >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish >> >>> >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's >> >>> security establishment's other >> >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in >> >>> the last couple of >> >>> >> years have become its biggest liability. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then >> >>> Pakistanis have not >> >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long >> >>> time that they have >> >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains >> >>> are late but they >> >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre >> >>> festivals, melas, and >> >>> >> fashion models than a failed state can >> >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase >> >>> >> from President Zardari, there are lots of >> >>> non-state actors like Abdul >> >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, >> >>> orphanages and >> >>> >> shelters for sick animals. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every >> >>> half-decent election in this >> >>> >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties >> >>> have never won more >> >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year >> >>> Pakistan witnessed the >> >>> >> largest civil rights movements in the history of >> >>> this region. It was >> >>> >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But >> >>> since people weren't >> >>> >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody >> >>> outside Pakistan >> >>> >> took much notice. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four >> >>> provinces in Pakistan - >> >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any >> >>> popular anti-India >> >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as >> >>> enemy-in-chief on >> >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling >> >>> potatoes to India than >> >>> >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida >> >>> inspired jihadis who >> >>> >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as >> >>> much as they hate a >> >>> >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In >> >>> fact there is not much >> >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, >> >>> China CDs, barbers, >> >>> >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan >> >>> recently said that these >> >>> >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but >> >>> nobody takes him >> >>> >> seriously. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in >> >>> the tribal areas of >> >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or >> >>> Muridke, two favourite >> >>> >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because >> >>> those are the cities >> >>> >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all >> >>> how much training do >> >>> >> you need if you are going to shoot at random >> >>> civilians or blow >> >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone >> >>> thinks a few missiles >> >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a >> >>> lesson, they should >> >>> >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the >> >>> map. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the >> >>> agencies have had a >> >>> >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the >> >>> neighbouring countries. >> >>> >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to >> >>> protecting their own >> >>> >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a >> >>> bigger, more notorious >> >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the >> >>> jihad against the >> >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against >> >>> those very jihadis. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis >> >>> visiting India till the >> >>> >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us >> >>> about India's slums, >> >>> >> and that there was nothing to buy except >> >>> handicrafts and saris. Then >> >>> >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that >> >>> nobody slept hungry >> >>> >> in their country. But now, not only do people >> >>> sleep hungry in both the >> >>> >> countries, they also commit suicide because they >> >>> see nothing but a >> >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer >> >>> contemplating suicide >> >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her >> >>> children in Karachi >> >>> >> because she can't feed them: this is what we >> >>> have achieved in our >> >>> >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of >> >>> Exploding Mangoes' >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> >>> the city. >> >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> >> To unsubscribe: >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> >> List archive: >> >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to >> >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> >>> header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: >> >>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 7 14:02:33 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:32:33 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-43 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901062358u550b381cl5d62b29aef3cd3a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> <48AD06BF-847C-4557-925C-5F77EF485182@sarai.net> <65be9bf40901062358u550b381cl5d62b29aef3cd3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901070032w8d8a811i75942b43d3af944@mail.gmail.com> PS: I will be extremely happy if any member of the reader list is able to use this knowledge in any way. I think the Information Society Project at Sarai under Shuddha have done a commendable job in creating an avenue to do 'research', (in what ever ways it could be interpreted) and I feel that time has come in India to introduce a public practice of thinking especially of those issues which have till now been bracketed under 'research' and hence were shoved to be processed and reproduced as a -cant- really and displayed and exhibited in select and sacred spaces of university conferences. Don't you feel that we must allow ourselves to be little profane in our thinking and articulation about emerging social configurations. I would be more than willing to engage anyone in a dialogue about MNIC because I feel as Indians it will have a huge amount of impact on all of us. This is not to suggest that all forms of University produced knowledge is unnecessay, not at all, this is rather to allow for creation of more profane, loose, argumentative, forms of knowledge. Sarai talk if you may in its most literal sense. On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Jeebesh, > > I think creating a blog is a brilliant idea. It may work as a distinct > repository for all the materials related to the MNIC. > > I completely support any initiative in this regard. > > My personal interest is to however use the platform provided by the > reader-list as a blog or a repository. The reason for this is I have often > come across many practitioners of research, especially academic research in > the last three or so years that I have worked in the sector and I have > sensed a feeling of insecurity and over protectiveness in so far their > material sources is concerned. > > The premise is usually that an academician or a researcher is usually as > good or as bad as her resources. > > I want to work against this notion and create as public a research base as > possible because I think with any sort of research we are essentially > dealing with questions pertaining to epistemology and I think, it will be > good for all us, if we can create an environment of public and > collaborative knowledge based on shared research. :) rather than stress on > purely individual forms of knowledge production which is more hierarchical > in nature and is dependent on institutional protocols of knowledge > dissemination. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> dear Taha, >> >> Thanks for taking the list to a serious and uncharted terrain. I have >> a suggestion. It maybe worthwhile to blog all these news items and the >> blog links, excerpts and your annotations to the list to keep us aware >> and generate a discussion. This way the blog will become an important >> site for all of us to know the various ways in which you are tracing >> the evolution of the MNIC card etc. It will be a vital archive and >> your annotations will keep us on the toe. >> >> Greetings for a stimulating 2009. >> >> warmly >> Jeebesh >> >> On 07-Jan-09, at 3:09 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: >> >> > >> http://www.secureidnews.com/2008/01/08/id-cards-for-delhi-citizens-trigger-intense-debate >> > >> > SecureIDNews >> > Government ID, Smart Cards, Identification and Authentication >> > Technology >> > >> > ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate >> > >> > Tuesday, January 8, 2008 in News >> > >> > The Indian government mandating all citizens in Delhi carry ID cards >> > after January 15th is causing debate over a police state versus >> > security against terrorists. The opposition party (Bhartiya Janata >> > Party, BJP) believes in a national citizen register for use in >> > passports, voting and health care while some in Congress feel it would >> > give the police too much power. At the time of launching the scheme in >> > India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main >> > propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a >> > credible individual identification system for improving the security >> > conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the >> > citizen-government interface. >> > >> > ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate >> > >> > * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists >> > * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for >> > 'police raj' >> > >> > NEW DELHI — The government order mandating all citizens living in >> > Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 lest to >> > invite police action has triggered an intense debate. >> > >> > Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) on >> > Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to have >> > the record of every Indian citizen in the country. >> > >> > "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as it >> > would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that >> > may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people may >> > have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP >> > spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move initiated >> > in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose >> > national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national >> > citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. >> > >> > Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket and >> > have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure micro >> > processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes >> > including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. >> > >> > Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards will >> > not only help in enhancing national security but they would also help >> > in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal >> > immigrants. >> > >> > Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties >> > believed that such cards may become a potential for the police raj and >> > harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card may be >> > even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA regime, a >> > Congress leader pointed out. >> > >> > Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was >> > initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance >> > was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 >> > Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA >> > government has continued the pilot project launched in selected >> > sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there >> > appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging that >> > the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in >> > increasing the national security. >> > >> > The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition >> > leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in >> > identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in >> > India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to >> > once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for >> > increasing the national security. >> > >> > As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the >> > multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the citizens >> > of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. >> > >> > The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and >> > preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub-districts of >> > Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, >> > Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and >> > Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the >> > individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who are 18 >> > and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries >> > around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand >> > and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or >> > Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers issued >> > at birth for all official transactions. >> > >> > A debate continues in the countries like United States and United >> > Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already >> > have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the >> > identification purposes. >> > >> > At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the >> > government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose >> > National ID cards is to provide a credible individual identification >> > system for improving the security conditions and to help the >> > e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. [end] >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 14:46:16 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:16:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony Message-ID: <441924.96071.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Understanding medieval history for communal harmony CJ: Jayati Chakraborty Rulers’ history is always a history of conflict. The conflicts between Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim religious conflict, as these were primarily power conflicts. It was an administrative necessity. HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver communal harmony in India. This is because most of the history that we, as lay men, know is nothing but distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is that we try to understand history through religion. The entire history of the medieval era i.e. the Muslim period, which is crucial in understanding the question of Hindu Muslim unity, is basically rulers’ history. And rulers’ history is always a history of conflict. For instance, we take the example of the battles between Shivaji and Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud Ghazni’s destruction of the Somnath temple, Aurangazeb’s destruction of Hindu temples etc to forment communal disharmony. But we forget that these conflicts were conflicts to acquire power. Rana Pratap’s senapati or commander-in –chief was a Muslim. Similarly, Akbar’a commander was a Rajput. It is true that Aurangazeb destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what we do not know is that many of the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at Guwahati) were given as Jagir. In medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat destroyed many Jain temples. Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of Ghazni conquered Multan and destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of worship as well. The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law of succession. So war of succession was a common feature during this period. Aurangazeb killed all his brothers and even imprisoned his father in order to ascend to the throne of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax on non-Muslims, recent researches have shown that the largest number of Hindu Mansabdars existed during Aurangazeb’s reign. If we closely analyse the history of the sultanate period, we find that kings of this period always tried to restrict Ulema intervention in administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin Khilji, Muhammad bin Tughlaq clearly refused to take any advice from the Ulema (the Islamic scholars), regarding administration. In the 1980s, when Indira Gandhi sent troops to the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, just to send the message that this move was not because of disrespect for any religion. It was an administrative necessity. Similarly, the conflicts between Hindu and Muslim rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim religious conflict, as these were primarily power conflicts. Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on the people’s history that is the composite culture that developed in the medieval period. There are numerous instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like Sant Kabir, Guru Nanak who tried to build communal harmony. Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and musician who had a deep love for the Brij language .It was he who introduced the sitar and the quawali. It may be noted here that most of the ragas in quawali have been taken from Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was a great Sanskrit scholar who translated the Upanishad in Persian and titled it ‘The Great Mystery’. In this book, he said, if after Koran, we imagine the concept of one God, it is the Upanishad. The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh library. One will be shocked to find that on the top right hand corner of the manuscript is written ‘Sri Ganesh Namah’ with a picture of Lord Ganesha. And the left hand corner contains an invocation to Allah. Such bonding needs to be stressed in the textbooks. Communal harmony is necessary for our survival. Once Mahesh Bhatt, the eminent film director asked a war veteran at Vietnam, ‘What was philosophy with which you fight war?’ He answered, ‘One philosophy, save your brother.’ This is true for Indians also. Either we all drown together or we do not. We always try to analyse others and we see other’s faults. We do not analyse ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists accused in the Mumbai attack, was a Pakistani but the person who opened the door was a Hindusthani. Therefore, the ideology of secularism needs to be reiterated time and again. We have to assert the secular fabric of our nation. Without this we have no future. http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 15:19:54 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:19:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <441924.96071.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <441924.96071.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901070149k594b24edu5ff6acdf74f825b3@mail.gmail.com> Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is a news to me . Can someone please share more on this , if it is true. Pawan On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf wrote: > Understanding medieval history for communal harmony > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty > > Rulers' history is always a history of conflict. The conflicts between > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim > religious conflict, as these were primarily power conflicts. It was an > administrative necessity. > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver communal harmony in India. This is > because most of the history that we, as lay men, know is nothing but > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is that we try to understand history > through religion. The entire history of the medieval era i.e. the Muslim > period, which is crucial in understanding the question of Hindu Muslim > unity, is basically rulers' history. And rulers' history is always a history > of conflict. > > For instance, we take the example of the battles between Shivaji and > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud Ghazni's destruction of the Somnath > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of Hindu temples etc to forment communal > disharmony. But we forget that these conflicts were conflicts to acquire > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or commander-in –chief was a Muslim. > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a Rajput. It is true that Aurangazeb > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what we do not know is that many of > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at Guwahati) were given as Jagir. In > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat destroyed many Jain temples. > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of Ghazni conquered Multan and > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of worship as well. > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law of succession. So war of > succession was a common feature during this period. Aurangazeb killed all > his brothers and even imprisoned his father in order to ascend to the throne > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax on non-Muslims, recent > researches have shown that the largest number of Hindu Mansabdars existed > during Aurangazeb's reign. > > If we closely analyse the history of the sultanate period, we find that > kings of this period always tried to restrict Ulema intervention in > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin Khilji, Muhammad bin Tughlaq > clearly refused to take any advice from the Ulema (the Islamic scholars), > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when Indira Gandhi sent troops to > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, just to send the message that > this move was not because of disrespect for any religion. It was an > administrative necessity. Similarly, the conflicts between Hindu and Muslim > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim religious conflict, as these were > primarily power conflicts. > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on the people's history that is the > composite culture that developed in the medieval period. There are numerous > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like Sant Kabir, Guru Nanak who > tried to build communal harmony. > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and musician who had a deep love for the > Brij language .It was he who introduced the sitar and the quawali. It may be > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali have been taken from > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was a great Sanskrit scholar who > translated the Upanishad in Persian and titled it 'The Great Mystery'. In > this book, he said, if after Koran, we imagine the concept of one God, it is > the Upanishad. > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh library. One will be shocked to > find that on the top right hand corner of the manuscript is written 'Sri > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord Ganesha. And the left hand corner > contains an invocation to Allah. Such bonding needs to be stressed in the > textbooks. > > Communal harmony is necessary for our survival. Once Mahesh Bhatt, the > eminent film director asked a war veteran at Vietnam, 'What was philosophy > with which you fight war?' He answered, 'One philosophy, save your brother.' > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all drown together or we do not. > We always try to analyse others and we see other's faults. We do not analyse > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists accused in the Mumbai attack, was a > Pakistani but the person who opened the door was a Hindusthani. Therefore, > the ideology of secularism needs to be reiterated time and again. We have to > assert the secular fabric of our nation. Without this we have no future. > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kiccovich at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 15:38:39 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:08:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani hip hop? In-Reply-To: <67E2A67D-2B4C-452C-BFD4-F5623364CA50@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <129065.17793.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Paul, Thanks for your posting! next term i will be teaching sociology of youth and the main focus of the course will be on Islamic youth subcultures looking especially at music literature and internet platforms. Naeem Mohaiemen's article on Dj Spooky's book is already on my reading list and will definitely show this video Paul has just posted. If you guys have any hint or suggestions i will definitely be supergrateful! be hugged francesca --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Paul Miller wrote: From: Paul Miller Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani hip hop? To: "Sarai list" Date: Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 1:08 AM Gasp - I guess it's time for Sarai to start writing theses on global hybridity, eh? Youtunbe: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=5RxgiLARd5I and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7813478.stm Strangely moving, but weird, nonetheless... Paul The elder daughter of Pakistan's assassinated former Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto, has written a rap song expressing grief over her death. The song by Bakhtawar Bhutto, 18, comes a year after the assassination and is entitled "I would take the pain away". It pays tribute to her mother's "crazy courage" and describes her as "the epitome of benevolence". It has been played regularly on state-run television and has been posted on the video-sharing website YouTube. 'Weeping' "My mother was murdered. I don't even comprehend. Was it worth dying for? I'm walking through screened doors," Bakhtawar sings in English. Bakhtawar Bhutto You had beauty and intelligence, everything you did was relevant Bakhtawar Bhutto's lyrics in "I would take the pain away" Obituary: Benazir Bhutto Life in pictures: Benazir Bhutto "No comfort or ease. I'm begging you please, God bless the deceased," she laments in the song. Praising her mother's "beauty and intelligence", the song says that the "whole world is weeping" over the murder. "Shot in the back of your ear, so young in 54th year, murdered with three kids left behind, a hopeless nation without you, you are in all their hearts," it says. The teenager, a student at Edinburgh University, then repeats the chorus line "I would take the pain away". A video to accompany the song shows footage and photographs of her smiling mother while election campaigning shortly before her death in Rawalpindi in December 2007 and of public grieving after her death. Ms Bhutto was killed in a gun and bomb attack on her convoy - blamed on Islamic militants - as it travelled through the city's Liaquat Bagh park. She had just finished addressing an election rally. Information Minister Sherry Rehman - who for several years was an aide to Ms Bhutto - told the Reuters news agency that Bakhtawar wrote the lyrics and music while studying in Edinburgh. "It's a tribute of a grieving daughter to her iconic and loving mother," she said. Ms Rehman said that while music was a hobby for Bakhtawar, she had no plan to pursue it as a career. The song has had mixed reviews in the British press. "While her dirge-like rap is unlikely to secure her a Grammy, the seemingly heartfelt tribute might win her some fans," The Independent newspaper says. The Guardian says that she uses the song to "pour out her anguish". Ms Bhutto's widower and Bakhtawar's father, Asif Ali Zardari, became president of Pakistan in September. Their son, Bilawal, 20, studies at Oxford University in the UK and another daughter, Aseefa, 14, also studies abroad. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 16:58:38 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:58:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani hip hop? In-Reply-To: <129065.17793.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <67E2A67D-2B4C-452C-BFD4-F5623364CA50@earthlink.net> <129065.17793.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00901070328t14536de2g201a69359a548ab8@mail.gmail.com> Rocking for god Irena Akbar Posted: Jan 06, 2009 at 0121 hrs IST * * *Shahjehan Khan, a 25-year old Pakistani American, grew up in a Boston suburb where he played soccer, listened to heavy metal music and lounged at pubs with his White peers. At home, he ate chicken curry, offered namaaz and fasted during Ramadan, like other children of Muslim immigrants from South Asia and the Middle East—perfectly at ease with his dual identities. That was till 9/11. A day later, a student cornered Khan in the hallway of his high school and asked, "What did your people do?" A bewildered Khan asked, "My people from Boston?" * "After 9/11, I felt there was no way to reconcile my Pakistani-ness with my American-ness," he says. After a two-month-long drug binge, Khan dropped out, returned home and enrolled at the University of Massachusetts in Lowell, where he met fellow Pakistani American and punk-rocker Basim Usmani. Usmani gave Khan a book, The Taqwacores, about imaginary Muslim punk rockers in Buffalo, New York. The characters in the book held mixed-gender prayers, drank alcohol and doped—all forbidden by Islam. Yet, they also offered namaaz. The book changed Khan. In 2004, Usmani and he formed a Muslim punk band called 'The Kominas'. Sporting Mohawks and wearing tees with slogans such as "Frisk me, I am a Muslim," the duo combined rock, hip-hop, rap and bhangra to produce songs such as Suicide-bomb the GAP (Muslim punk's anthem), Sharia Law in the USA, Wal-Qaeda store, and Rumi was a Homo. The songs strike at the "irrational" American fear of Terror and the "corporate imperialism" of the US, but, at the same time, the songs rebelled against "Muslim fundamentalism". In Par Desi, Usmani describes being beaten up by White punks following 9/11 and ending up in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. "In Lahore, it rains water/In Boston, it rains boots", the song says. The Muslim Hippies? The Taqwacores inspired not just 'The Kominas' but a whole new subculture of Muslim punk groups across the US and Canada such as 'Vote Hezbollah' in San Antonio, 'Al-Thawra' in Chicago and the all-girl 'Secret Trial Five' in Vancouver, Canada. The bands define their brand of music as 'Taqwacore'—from the Arabic word 'taqwa' or 'consciousness of Allah' and 'hardcore', a form of punk rock. Michael Muhammad Knight, the author of The Taqwacores, converted to Islam at 15, went to Pakistan at 17 where he studied at a madarsa and almost joined the Chechen mujahideen before growing disillusioned with orthodox Islam and returning to New York. "I imagined the Taqwacore scene as a place where Muslim kids could define Islam for themselves. Punk and hardcore seemed like the best way to do that," he says. Marwan Kamel, an Arab American who is the lead vocalist of the 'Al-Thawra' band, says he's had 'bombing jokes' and 'camel jokes' thrown at him since he was in school. "My peers would ask me if I had ever seen a bomb or rode on a camel in the desert and I'd say that I have only seen a camel in Chicago's zoo," he says. American Muslims, says Kamel, are the neo-Blacks. "Muslim and Arab bashing has become a socially accepted form of prejudice in the United States, reminiscent of the Black-bashing in the American media of the '50s and the '60s,'' he says. So, how does the Taqwacore philosophy solve Kamel's dilemma? "It allows me to be a complicated Muslim. Several Muslims in the US think it's not 'Muslim enough' to be 'too American' just as Americans think it's not 'American enough' to be 'too Muslim'. Taqwacore seeks to turn around this false dichotomy. It's okay not to feel American enough or Muslim enough," says Kamel who doesn't feel guilty about drinking or not praying. Like the The Taqwacores characters, some Muslim punks are queer, others straight; some drink, some don't. Sena Hussain, the lead vocalist of 'Secret Trial Five' (named after five Muslims who were held without charge in Canada after 9/11), is a 26-year-old Pakistani American lesbian married to her girlfriend and performs as a drag queen. She says her parents are ashamed of her being gay but are glad about her band because it has "at least something to do with Islam". Shock Value The cover of The Kominas' album, Wild Nights in Guantanamo Bay, has a gun-wielding woman, whose burqa has fallen off to reveal tattooed arms and a tight tank top. Kamel, the Al-Thawra lead vocalist, gets kicks out of punk-rocking for a White audience. "It's fun to shout at the White kids in Arabic for a full 45 minutes without them understanding a word. When they see us shout at them in punk style sporting green boots with red laces and patched shirts, they're startled at this kind of 'defiance'," he says. Building bridges Two members in 'The Kominas' band—guitarist Arjun Ray and drummer Karna Ray—are Hindu brothers from Kolkata. "My connection to Taqwacore is personal, not ideological," says Karna, who has had "sand-nigger" yelled at him. Then, there's a 30-something White Christian youth called 'Sagg' who formed the band Sagg Taqwacore Syndicate in late 2006. "I try to build bridges between Muslims and non-Muslims in the US". 'The Kominas' had performed at a fund-raising concert at Brooklyn for the rebuilding of a Hindu temple vandalised by two White youths in Maple Grove, Minnesota in 2006. Usmani is also looking for people in Indiawho can help him with a tour he's planning of Delhi and Amritsar. "I am planning to call it 'Party like it's 1946'," he says. Currently, Usmani and Khan are in Lahore where they have done 25 concerts over the last year. Their songs comment on the political and social situation there but steer clear of Islamic fundamentalism. "In America, we could afford to be sarcastic because the fear of terrorism was misplaced. In Pakistan, there is genuine fear of terror because Muslim fundamentalists are actually killing people here," says Usmani, whose concert in Lahore last November was disrupted by a bomb attack. The road ahead The Taqwacore group on Facebook has 394 members while 'The Kominas' has 307. Hiba Siddiqui, a 17-year-old high-schooler in Houston, is drawn to Taqwacore because it allows her to be an "imperfect and confused Muslim". Her Facebook photo has her wearing the Arabian white robe and red-check scarf for Halloween, holding a toy gun, gritting her teeth and frowning. Its caption: "My Al-Qaeda audition tape". Half-Iraqi, half-Kashmiri American Yusuf Barzinji, 14, writes on Knight's Facebook wall, "Dude, Taqwacore has changed my life." He converted his hardcore punk band into a Taqwacore band called 'Purple Skies' in 2008". But the sales of the music aren't rocking. Sagg calls his sales "crap"; al-Thawra's Who Benefits From War (May 2008) has sold only 200 copies; 'The Kominas' haven't bothered to check the sales of Wild Nights in Guantanamo Bay whose 500 copies were put for sale on CD Bay last year. Knight sums up the future of Taqwacore: "It can go anywhere, and it can go nowhere. Taqwacore is about being young and confused." The inspired Besides inspiring the subgenre of Muslim punk rock, Michael Muhammad Knight's novel The Taqwacores inspired author Asra Nomani to lead a mixed-gender prayer in March 2005. In the novel, a burqa-clad riot girl Rabeya gives a Friday sermon and leads a mixed-gender prayer. The Taqwacore movement is also a part of several college curriculum including Vassar College in New York. Two films—a feature film based on the novel by Eyad Zahra and a documentary by Omar Majeed—are expected to be released in the first half of 2009. Meanwhile, Knight is busy completing his next novel titled, Osama Van Halen. On 1/7/09, francesca recchia wrote: > > Dear Paul, > Thanks for your posting! > > next term i will be teaching sociology of youth and the main focus of the > course will be on Islamic youth subcultures looking especially at music > literature and internet platforms. > Naeem Mohaiemen's article on Dj Spooky's book is already on my reading list > and will definitely show this video Paul has just posted. > > If you guys have any hint or suggestions i will definitely be > supergrateful! > > be hugged > francesca > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Paul Miller wrote: > From: Paul Miller > Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistani hip hop? > To: "Sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 1:08 AM > > Gasp - I guess it's time for Sarai to start writing theses on global > hybridity, eh? > > Youtunbe: > http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=5RxgiLARd5I > > and > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7813478.stm > > Strangely moving, but weird, nonetheless... > Paul > > The elder daughter of Pakistan's assassinated former Prime Minister, > Benazir Bhutto, has written a rap song expressing grief over her death. > > The song by Bakhtawar Bhutto, 18, comes a year after the assassination > and is entitled "I would take the pain away". > > It pays tribute to her mother's "crazy courage" and describes her > as > "the epitome of benevolence". > > It has been played regularly on state-run television and has been > posted on the video-sharing website YouTube. > > 'Weeping' > > "My mother was murdered. I don't even comprehend. Was it worth dying > for? I'm walking through screened doors," Bakhtawar sings in English. > > > Bakhtawar Bhutto > > You had beauty and intelligence, everything you did was relevant > > Bakhtawar Bhutto's lyrics in "I would take the pain away" > > Obituary: Benazir Bhutto > Life in pictures: Benazir Bhutto > > "No comfort or ease. I'm begging you please, God bless the > deceased," > she laments in the song. > > Praising her mother's "beauty and intelligence", the song says > that > the "whole world is weeping" over the murder. > > "Shot in the back of your ear, so young in 54th year, murdered with > three kids left behind, a hopeless nation without you, you are in all > their hearts," it says. > > The teenager, a student at Edinburgh University, then repeats the > chorus line "I would take the pain away". > > A video to accompany the song shows footage and photographs of her > smiling mother while election campaigning shortly before her death in > Rawalpindi in December 2007 and of public grieving after her death. > > Ms Bhutto was killed in a gun and bomb attack on her convoy - blamed > on Islamic militants - as it travelled through the city's Liaquat Bagh > park. She had just finished addressing an election rally. > > Information Minister Sherry Rehman - who for several years was an aide > to Ms Bhutto - told the Reuters news agency that Bakhtawar wrote the > lyrics and music while studying in Edinburgh. > > "It's a tribute of a grieving daughter to her iconic and loving > mother," she said. > > Ms Rehman said that while music was a hobby for Bakhtawar, she had no > plan to pursue it as a career. > > The song has had mixed reviews in the British press. > > "While her dirge-like rap is unlikely to secure her a Grammy, the > seemingly heartfelt tribute might win her some fans," The Independent > newspaper says. > > The Guardian says that she uses the song to "pour out her anguish". > > Ms Bhutto's widower and Bakhtawar's father, Asif Ali Zardari, became > president of Pakistan in September. > > Their son, Bilawal, 20, studies at Oxford University in the UK and > another daughter, Aseefa, 14, also studies abroad. > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Jan 7 17:30:33 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:30:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-43 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901070032w8d8a811i75942b43d3af944@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> <48AD06BF-847C-4557-925C-5F77EF485182@sarai.net> <65be9bf40901062358u550b381cl5d62b29aef3cd3a0@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901070032w8d8a811i75942b43d3af944@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D17754-5FFB-4275-8213-9B0996D8A581@sarai.net> dear Taha, I am not suggesting to move away from doing research in a public way. It is an important move and will slowly change establish ways of doing research. What i was suggesting is that blogs are better format to build the resource base and broaden it's coverage. It will be nice if we get excerpts, links to research materials and your annotations and there is one other place that we can go to see all this in some sequence. That is why i suggested a blog. In a multi-theme lists resources gets buried a lot more than in blogs dedicated to specific thematic. warmly jeebesh On 07-Jan-09, at 2:02 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > PS: I will be extremely happy if any member of the reader list is > able to > use this knowledge in any way. I think the Information Society > Project at > Sarai under Shuddha have done a commendable job in creating an > avenue to do > 'research', (in what ever ways it could be interpreted) and I feel > that > time has come in India to introduce a public practice of thinking > especially > of those issues which have till now been bracketed under 'research' > and > hence were shoved to be processed and reproduced as a -cant- really > and > displayed and exhibited in select and sacred spaces of university > conferences. Don't you feel that we must allow ourselves to be little > profane in our thinking and articulation about emerging social > configurations. I would be more than willing to engage anyone in a > dialogue > about MNIC because I feel as Indians it will have a huge amount of > impact on > all of us. This is not to suggest that all forms of University > produced > knowledge is unnecessay, not at all, this is rather to allow for > creation of > more profane, loose, argumentative, forms of knowledge. Sarai talk > if you > may in its most literal sense. > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > >wrote: > >> Dear Jeebesh, >> >> I think creating a blog is a brilliant idea. It may work as a >> distinct >> repository for all the materials related to the MNIC. >> >> I completely support any initiative in this regard. >> >> My personal interest is to however use the platform provided by the >> reader-list as a blog or a repository. The reason for this is I >> have often >> come across many practitioners of research, especially academic >> research in >> the last three or so years that I have worked in the sector and I >> have >> sensed a feeling of insecurity and over protectiveness in so far >> their >> material sources is concerned. >> >> The premise is usually that an academician or a researcher is >> usually as >> good or as bad as her resources. >> >> I want to work against this notion and create as public a research >> base as >> possible because I think with any sort of research we are essentially >> dealing with questions pertaining to epistemology and I think, it >> will be >> good for all us, if we can create an environment of public and >> collaborative knowledge based on shared research. :) rather than >> stress on >> purely individual forms of knowledge production which is more >> hierarchical >> in nature and is dependent on institutional protocols of knowledge >> dissemination. >> >> Warm regards >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Jeebesh wrote: >> >>> dear Taha, >>> >>> Thanks for taking the list to a serious and uncharted terrain. I >>> have >>> a suggestion. It maybe worthwhile to blog all these news items and >>> the >>> blog links, excerpts and your annotations to the list to keep us >>> aware >>> and generate a discussion. This way the blog will become an >>> important >>> site for all of us to know the various ways in which you are tracing >>> the evolution of the MNIC card etc. It will be a vital archive and >>> your annotations will keep us on the toe. >>> >>> Greetings for a stimulating 2009. >>> >>> warmly >>> Jeebesh >>> >>> On 07-Jan-09, at 3:09 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: >>> >>>> >>> http://www.secureidnews.com/2008/01/08/id-cards-for-delhi-citizens-trigger-intense-debate >>>> >>>> SecureIDNews >>>> Government ID, Smart Cards, Identification and Authentication >>>> Technology >>>> >>>> ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate >>>> >>>> Tuesday, January 8, 2008 in News >>>> >>>> The Indian government mandating all citizens in Delhi carry ID >>>> cards >>>> after January 15th is causing debate over a police state versus >>>> security against terrorists. The opposition party (Bhartiya Janata >>>> Party, BJP) believes in a national citizen register for use in >>>> passports, voting and health care while some in Congress feel it >>>> would >>>> give the police too much power. At the time of launching the >>>> scheme in >>>> India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main >>>> propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a >>>> credible individual identification system for improving the >>>> security >>>> conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the >>>> citizen-government interface. >>>> >>>> ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate >>>> >>>> * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists >>>> * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for >>>> 'police raj' >>>> >>>> NEW DELHI — The government order mandating all citizens living in >>>> Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 >>>> lest to >>>> invite police action has triggered an intense debate. >>>> >>>> Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party >>>> (BJP) on >>>> Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to >>>> have >>>> the record of every Indian citizen in the country. >>>> >>>> "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as >>>> it >>>> would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that >>>> may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people >>>> may >>>> have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP >>>> spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move >>>> initiated >>>> in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose >>>> national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national >>>> citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. >>>> >>>> Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket >>>> and >>>> have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure >>>> micro >>>> processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes >>>> including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. >>>> >>>> Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards >>>> will >>>> not only help in enhancing national security but they would also >>>> help >>>> in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal >>>> immigrants. >>>> >>>> Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties >>>> believed that such cards may become a potential for the police >>>> raj and >>>> harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card >>>> may be >>>> even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA >>>> regime, a >>>> Congress leader pointed out. >>>> >>>> Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was >>>> initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance >>>> was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 >>>> Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA >>>> government has continued the pilot project launched in selected >>>> sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there >>>> appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging >>>> that >>>> the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in >>>> increasing the national security. >>>> >>>> The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition >>>> leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in >>>> identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in >>>> India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to >>>> once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for >>>> increasing the national security. >>>> >>>> As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the >>>> multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the >>>> citizens >>>> of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. >>>> >>>> The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and >>>> preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub- >>>> districts of >>>> Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, >>>> Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and >>>> Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the >>>> individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who >>>> are 18 >>>> and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries >>>> around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, >>>> Thailand >>>> and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or >>>> Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers >>>> issued >>>> at birth for all official transactions. >>>> >>>> A debate continues in the countries like United States and United >>>> Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already >>>> have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the >>>> identification purposes. >>>> >>>> At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the >>>> government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose >>>> National ID cards is to provide a credible individual >>>> identification >>>> system for improving the security conditions and to help the >>>> e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. [end] >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 18:18:25 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:48:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901070149k594b24edu5ff6acdf74f825b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <419061.33494.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Pawan I didn't find any specific detail about the Kamakhya temple, but there are many references about Mughal rulers (such as Aurangzeb) granting land for temples. You may look at some of these refs: http://www.iosworld.org/ebk7.htm http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15102002/1510200212.htm http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/06/03/news0405.htm Yousuf --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:19 PM > Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is a news to me > . Can someone > please share more on this , if it is true. > > Pawan > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf > wrote: > > > Understanding medieval history for communal harmony > > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty > > > > Rulers' history is always a history of conflict. > The conflicts between > > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period cannot be > seen as Hindu-Muslim > > religious conflict, as these were primarily power > conflicts. It was an > > administrative necessity. > > > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver communal > harmony in India. This is > > because most of the history that we, as lay men, know > is nothing but > > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is that we try > to understand history > > through religion. The entire history of the medieval > era i.e. the Muslim > > period, which is crucial in understanding the question > of Hindu Muslim > > unity, is basically rulers' history. And > rulers' history is always a history > > of conflict. > > > > For instance, we take the example of the battles > between Shivaji and > > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud Ghazni's > destruction of the Somnath > > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of Hindu temples > etc to forment communal > > disharmony. But we forget that these conflicts were > conflicts to acquire > > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or commander-in > –chief was a Muslim. > > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a Rajput. It is > true that Aurangazeb > > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what we do not > know is that many of > > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at Guwahati) > were given as Jagir. In > > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat destroyed > many Jain temples. > > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of Ghazni > conquered Multan and > > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of worship as > well. > > > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law of > succession. So war of > > succession was a common feature during this period. > Aurangazeb killed all > > his brothers and even imprisoned his father in order > to ascend to the throne > > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax on > non-Muslims, recent > > researches have shown that the largest number of Hindu > Mansabdars existed > > during Aurangazeb's reign. > > > > If we closely analyse the history of the sultanate > period, we find that > > kings of this period always tried to restrict Ulema > intervention in > > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin Khilji, > Muhammad bin Tughlaq > > clearly refused to take any advice from the Ulema (the > Islamic scholars), > > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when Indira > Gandhi sent troops to > > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, just to > send the message that > > this move was not because of disrespect for any > religion. It was an > > administrative necessity. Similarly, the conflicts > between Hindu and Muslim > > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim religious > conflict, as these were > > primarily power conflicts. > > > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on the > people's history that is the > > composite culture that developed in the medieval > period. There are numerous > > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like Sant > Kabir, Guru Nanak who > > tried to build communal harmony. > > > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and musician who > had a deep love for the > > Brij language .It was he who introduced the sitar and > the quawali. It may be > > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali have been > taken from > > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was a great > Sanskrit scholar who > > translated the Upanishad in Persian and titled it > 'The Great Mystery'. In > > this book, he said, if after Koran, we imagine the > concept of one God, it is > > the Upanishad. > > > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh library. > One will be shocked to > > find that on the top right hand corner of the > manuscript is written 'Sri > > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord Ganesha. And > the left hand corner > > contains an invocation to Allah. Such bonding needs to > be stressed in the > > textbooks. > > > > Communal harmony is necessary for our survival. Once > Mahesh Bhatt, the > > eminent film director asked a war veteran at Vietnam, > 'What was philosophy > > with which you fight war?' He answered, 'One > philosophy, save your brother.' > > > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all drown > together or we do not. > > We always try to analyse others and we see other's > faults. We do not analyse > > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists accused in the > Mumbai attack, was a > > Pakistani but the person who opened the door was a > Hindusthani. Therefore, > > the ideology of secularism needs to be reiterated time > and again. We have to > > assert the secular fabric of our nation. Without this > we have no future. > > > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 18:26:50 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:26:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <419061.33494.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70901070149k594b24edu5ff6acdf74f825b3@mail.gmail.com> <419061.33494.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901070456j28433381u9d9ea9b3af526e72@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Yousaf, I have been to kamakhya temple and since I had heard the history of the temple from few locals and the priests [ Almost all are from UP settled since centuries ] , i was shocked to read an article where it was referred that Kamakhya temple was given as a Jagir. No doubt there are some writers like Ms Chakraborty , which are found almost everywhere in India , who try to alter the history by repeated distortion of facts. I am surprised that Aurangzeb gave land to temples , as his hate for idol worship needs no introduction . The websites you have referred may not be taken as a right source. Thank you once again. Regards Pawan Durani Mumbai, India On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Yousuf wrote: > Dear Pawan > I didn't find any specific detail about the Kamakhya temple, but there are > many references about Mughal rulers (such as Aurangzeb) granting land for > temples. You may look at some of these refs: > > http://www.iosworld.org/ebk7.htm > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15102002/1510200212.htm > http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/06/03/news0405.htm > > Yousuf > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > From: Pawan Durani > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: "sarai list" > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:19 PM > > Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is a news to me > > . Can someone > > please share more on this , if it is true. > > > > Pawan > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > Understanding medieval history for communal harmony > > > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty > > > > > > Rulers' history is always a history of conflict. > > The conflicts between > > > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period cannot be > > seen as Hindu-Muslim > > > religious conflict, as these were primarily power > > conflicts. It was an > > > administrative necessity. > > > > > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver communal > > harmony in India. This is > > > because most of the history that we, as lay men, know > > is nothing but > > > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is that we try > > to understand history > > > through religion. The entire history of the medieval > > era i.e. the Muslim > > > period, which is crucial in understanding the question > > of Hindu Muslim > > > unity, is basically rulers' history. And > > rulers' history is always a history > > > of conflict. > > > > > > For instance, we take the example of the battles > > between Shivaji and > > > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud Ghazni's > > destruction of the Somnath > > > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of Hindu temples > > etc to forment communal > > > disharmony. But we forget that these conflicts were > > conflicts to acquire > > > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or commander-in > > –chief was a Muslim. > > > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a Rajput. It is > > true that Aurangazeb > > > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what we do not > > know is that many of > > > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at Guwahati) > > were given as Jagir. In > > > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat destroyed > > many Jain temples. > > > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of Ghazni > > conquered Multan and > > > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of worship as > > well. > > > > > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law of > > succession. So war of > > > succession was a common feature during this period. > > Aurangazeb killed all > > > his brothers and even imprisoned his father in order > > to ascend to the throne > > > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax on > > non-Muslims, recent > > > researches have shown that the largest number of Hindu > > Mansabdars existed > > > during Aurangazeb's reign. > > > > > > If we closely analyse the history of the sultanate > > period, we find that > > > kings of this period always tried to restrict Ulema > > intervention in > > > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin Khilji, > > Muhammad bin Tughlaq > > > clearly refused to take any advice from the Ulema (the > > Islamic scholars), > > > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when Indira > > Gandhi sent troops to > > > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, just to > > send the message that > > > this move was not because of disrespect for any > > religion. It was an > > > administrative necessity. Similarly, the conflicts > > between Hindu and Muslim > > > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim religious > > conflict, as these were > > > primarily power conflicts. > > > > > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on the > > people's history that is the > > > composite culture that developed in the medieval > > period. There are numerous > > > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like Sant > > Kabir, Guru Nanak who > > > tried to build communal harmony. > > > > > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and musician who > > had a deep love for the > > > Brij language .It was he who introduced the sitar and > > the quawali. It may be > > > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali have been > > taken from > > > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was a great > > Sanskrit scholar who > > > translated the Upanishad in Persian and titled it > > 'The Great Mystery'. In > > > this book, he said, if after Koran, we imagine the > > concept of one God, it is > > > the Upanishad. > > > > > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh library. > > One will be shocked to > > > find that on the top right hand corner of the > > manuscript is written 'Sri > > > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord Ganesha. And > > the left hand corner > > > contains an invocation to Allah. Such bonding needs to > > be stressed in the > > > textbooks. > > > > > > Communal harmony is necessary for our survival. Once > > Mahesh Bhatt, the > > > eminent film director asked a war veteran at Vietnam, > > 'What was philosophy > > > with which you fight war?' He answered, 'One > > philosophy, save your brother.' > > > > > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all drown > > together or we do not. > > > We always try to analyse others and we see other's > > faults. We do not analyse > > > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists accused in the > > Mumbai attack, was a > > > Pakistani but the person who opened the door was a > > Hindusthani. Therefore, > > > the ideology of secularism needs to be reiterated time > > and again. We have to > > > assert the secular fabric of our nation. Without this > > we have no future. > > > > > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 19:19:15 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:49:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901070456j28433381u9d9ea9b3af526e72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <393476.57465.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Pawan Its interesting that you have accepted the history of the temple as told by the priest or the locals, but you find my references (and my forwarded essay) as "not the right sources". We all know what sort of twisted and amusing history is told by the tour-guides and locals around some of these historical monuments. Did you read some of those write-ups I referred to? Would you elaborate why you find them unacceptable? And what kind of history sources are acceptable to you. In any case, I am not saying that any information one finds on the internet or for that matter from the locals is trustworthy or not. There is no such thing as an absolute truth in history. All facts are interpretations. But those based on more concrete evidences should certainly have more weight. So, you may have heard only about Aurangzeb's hate for Hindu temples and idol-worship (which I'm not denying) because that's the interpretation you have been given by our education system. But that does not mean that that is the final truth. The historians are forever ready to improve/update their versions according to the newer facts and evidences available. For example, we have all heard the story about how Aurangzeb hated music, and when some musicians tried to protest his ban of music by taking a mock funeral procession of music, Aurangzeb is supposed to have said "good, bury the music in such a deep grave that it should not rise again". Now, very recently, a UK historian has proved that this story is bogus and was wrongly attributed by later (European) historians. Recent research has also shown that if there is any era in India's history when the maximum amount of books (about 17) on the theory of Indian music were written (in Persian), it was during Aurangzeb's rule. But by this, I am not trying to portray only a positive picture of Aurangzeb. What I am hinting at is that because there are no final truths in history, we cannot and should not make any judgment or evaluation for today's reality based on what we read in history. Yousuf --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 6:26 PM > Thank you Yousaf, > > I have been to kamakhya temple and since I had heard the > history of the > temple from few locals and the priests [ Almost all are > from UP settled > since centuries ] , i was shocked to read an article where > it was referred > that Kamakhya temple was given as a Jagir. > > No doubt there are some writers like Ms Chakraborty , which > are found almost > everywhere in India , who try to alter the history by > repeated distortion of > facts. > > I am surprised that Aurangzeb gave land to temples , as his > hate for idol > worship needs no introduction . The websites you have > referred may not be > taken as a right source. > > Thank you once again. > > Regards > > Pawan Durani > Mumbai, India > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Yousuf > wrote: > > > Dear Pawan > > I didn't find any specific detail about the > Kamakhya temple, but there are > > many references about Mughal rulers (such as > Aurangzeb) granting land for > > temples. You may look at some of these refs: > > > > http://www.iosworld.org/ebk7.htm > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15102002/1510200212.htm > > > http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/06/03/news0405.htm > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani > wrote: > > > > > From: Pawan Durani > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history > for communal harmony > > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:19 PM > > > Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is > a news to me > > > . Can someone > > > please share more on this , if it is true. > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Understanding medieval history for communal > harmony > > > > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty > > > > > > > > Rulers' history is always a history of > conflict. > > > The conflicts between > > > > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period > cannot be > > > seen as Hindu-Muslim > > > > religious conflict, as these were primarily > power > > > conflicts. It was an > > > > administrative necessity. > > > > > > > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver > communal > > > harmony in India. This is > > > > because most of the history that we, as lay > men, know > > > is nothing but > > > > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is > that we try > > > to understand history > > > > through religion. The entire history of the > medieval > > > era i.e. the Muslim > > > > period, which is crucial in understanding > the question > > > of Hindu Muslim > > > > unity, is basically rulers' history. And > > > rulers' history is always a history > > > > of conflict. > > > > > > > > For instance, we take the example of the > battles > > > between Shivaji and > > > > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud > Ghazni's > > > destruction of the Somnath > > > > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of > Hindu temples > > > etc to forment communal > > > > disharmony. But we forget that these > conflicts were > > > conflicts to acquire > > > > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or > commander-in > > > –chief was a Muslim. > > > > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a > Rajput. It is > > > true that Aurangazeb > > > > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what > we do not > > > know is that many of > > > > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at > Guwahati) > > > were given as Jagir. In > > > > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat > destroyed > > > many Jain temples. > > > > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of > Ghazni > > > conquered Multan and > > > > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of > worship as > > > well. > > > > > > > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law > of > > > succession. So war of > > > > succession was a common feature during this > period. > > > Aurangazeb killed all > > > > his brothers and even imprisoned his father > in order > > > to ascend to the throne > > > > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax > on > > > non-Muslims, recent > > > > researches have shown that the largest > number of Hindu > > > Mansabdars existed > > > > during Aurangazeb's reign. > > > > > > > > If we closely analyse the history of the > sultanate > > > period, we find that > > > > kings of this period always tried to > restrict Ulema > > > intervention in > > > > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin > Khilji, > > > Muhammad bin Tughlaq > > > > clearly refused to take any advice from the > Ulema (the > > > Islamic scholars), > > > > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when > Indira > > > Gandhi sent troops to > > > > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, > just to > > > send the message that > > > > this move was not because of disrespect for > any > > > religion. It was an > > > > administrative necessity. Similarly, the > conflicts > > > between Hindu and Muslim > > > > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim > religious > > > conflict, as these were > > > > primarily power conflicts. > > > > > > > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on > the > > > people's history that is the > > > > composite culture that developed in the > medieval > > > period. There are numerous > > > > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like > Sant > > > Kabir, Guru Nanak who > > > > tried to build communal harmony. > > > > > > > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and > musician who > > > had a deep love for the > > > > Brij language .It was he who introduced the > sitar and > > > the quawali. It may be > > > > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali > have been > > > taken from > > > > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was > a great > > > Sanskrit scholar who > > > > translated the Upanishad in Persian and > titled it > > > 'The Great Mystery'. In > > > > this book, he said, if after Koran, we > imagine the > > > concept of one God, it is > > > > the Upanishad. > > > > > > > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh > library. > > > One will be shocked to > > > > find that on the top right hand corner of > the > > > manuscript is written 'Sri > > > > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord > Ganesha. And > > > the left hand corner > > > > contains an invocation to Allah. Such > bonding needs to > > > be stressed in the > > > > textbooks. > > > > > > > > Communal harmony is necessary for our > survival. Once > > > Mahesh Bhatt, the > > > > eminent film director asked a war veteran at > Vietnam, > > > 'What was philosophy > > > > with which you fight war?' He answered, > 'One > > > philosophy, save your brother.' > > > > > > > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all > drown > > > together or we do not. > > > > We always try to analyse others and we see > other's > > > faults. We do not analyse > > > > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists > accused in the > > > Mumbai attack, was a > > > > Pakistani but the person who opened the door > was a > > > Hindusthani. Therefore, > > > > the ideology of secularism needs to be > reiterated time > > > and again. We have to > > > > assert the secular fabric of our nation. > Without this > > > we have no future. > > > > > > > > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 21:41:48 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:11:48 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan References: <594196.93296.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <995a19920901062011m68fff915qff0f27525e7de994@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aman and all. I did not intend any mudslinging or abuse to human rights activists. I apologize to all the listers and all human rights activists if the term came out as being used pejoratively in my mail. The confusion perhaps arose from the fact that I clubbed some other mails on the topic to my previous response. Those who study the people in Pakistan with any serious academic interest know that there are human right activists, secular thinkers and many leftist organizations that have deplored the links between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against India. Harboring such institutes takes away the resources of the state from the needy people. They help to divert people's attention away from the real issues troubling the common folk. No dout for quite sometime now, we haven't heard about processions against poverty, rising prices, independent judiciary, the issues that were prominent just 3 4 months back. At the time of the war hysteria that has been generated, raising such issues will be made to look like playing in the hands of the enemy. You might get murdered for sayigng things that "the enemy" wants to hear. Whereas someone who should not be wandering scotfree enjoys the protection of a bullet proof car, as is suggested in the news item Rahul posted earlier, can the human right activists enjoy the same kind of protection available to those who are diverting attention against the human rights with in Pakistan. Best Taraprakash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Sethi" To: "sarai list" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of mudslinging (or > murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. Hopefully none of > us will ever need bulletproof cars. > > Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who simply says that > maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a flawed picture > of pakistan is somehow a "human rights activist". > I also find it interesting that a "human rights activist" is now > suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights activist!" "How dare > you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - when people are > dying on the streets!" > > (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents actually kill about > 275 people a day in India - > http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far more than terror > does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by this loss. I'm > worried because in the road accident,even the bullet-proof gift of the > pakistan government will not help.) > > Of course one never wants to appear to be a pak-apologist - good > heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - what ever that is - i > presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must confess a > self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive rather than > regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that others follow suit. > > To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan and India are > these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing the pipe of > peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has little or nothing to > do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even the pakistan > civil govt is not claiming that. > I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to actually try and > comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why hanif's piece is > of interest - not so much because of the piece - but the reactions to > it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his toupee/is a news > illiterate/" > > If one accepts that the civil government and the military and the ISI > have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that there is a > certain absence of control. > > At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say - enough is > enough - but that is unintelligent - and more importantly - > uninteresting. > best > a. > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash > wrote: >> >> Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed Saleem Shahzad will also >> be honoured as someone "talking through his topee", to quote Yasir from >> an earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his topee" is Pakistan >> based correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. You can read >> another report by him on >> www.bbchindi.com >> on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against >> India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the water of nexus >> between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these groups are part of >> the state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will give these >> progressive journalists, the leftist activists and human right activists >> of Pakistan bullet proof cars. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" >> >> To: "taraprakash" ; "Aman Sethi" >> >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >> myths about pakistan >> >> >>> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He >>> could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full >>> picture. >>> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an >>> awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody >>> knows the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody? >>> Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are >>> killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and >>> the LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does >>> he not know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? >>> I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following >>> article informative. >>> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html >>> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan >>> By Syed Saleem Shahzad >>> >>> KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) >>> were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were >>> killed - as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security >>> forces during their three-day rampage last week. >>> >>> What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal >>> Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was >>> hatched by elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and >>> the LET, including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a >>> naval commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital >>> Islamabad. >>> >>> This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of >>> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the >>> escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now >>> arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully >>> clamp down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward >>> section officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? >>> >>> "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a >>> middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of >>> anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, >>> today all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle >>> between India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the >>> mujahideen from Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer >>> offered when there is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked >>> to remove all fear and pressure and grant victory.) >>> >>> The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants >>> war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem. >>> >>> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in >>> Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her >>> visit to India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding >>> message will be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has >>> renamed itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the >>> Mumbai plot. >>> >>> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) >>> allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into the >>> Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) >>> Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at >>> the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major >>> was able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge >>> of his superiors. >>> Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and >>> it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq >>> Parvez Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. >>> >>> Militant support >>> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a >>> city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on >>> November 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai >>> attack on November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the >>> garrison city twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting >>> held in the Office of Strategic Organization. >>> >>> He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what >>> possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the >>> LET would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the >>> Arabian Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate >>> its activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell >>> militants in Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to >>> hold their fire against the Pakistani security forces. >>> >>> At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant >>> training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered >>> Kashmir, were evacuated. >>> >>> A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for journalists >>> in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces along the >>> border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they >>> are fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that >>> hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would >>> support Pakistan if India waged war on the country. >>> >>> Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process with >>> the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for >>> pulling out the Pakistani troops. >>> >>> An almost perfect plan >>> The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian >>> Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the >>> Jewish community center that was attacked and where several people were >>> killed. His information was that it was being used by Israeli >>> intelligence - Mossad. >>> >>> Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its >>> well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned >>> operation in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. >>> >>> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets >>> immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this >>> through his revelations of his LET background. >>> >>> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out >>> at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's >>> high command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and >>> of some junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply >>> pressure on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. >>> >>> But there is a problem. >>> >>> Militants tighten their grip >>> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy >>> spilling over from the tribal areas into this province. >>> >>> In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from >>> the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and >>> members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in >>> the province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations >>> to the ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. >>> >>> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing >>> through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing >>> attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers >>> in supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. >>> >>> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its >>> well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of >>> Saeed, could commit its several thousand members, virtually a >>> para-military force, to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked >>> Pakistani militants. >>> >>> What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its >>> under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities >>> start to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could >>> break loose inside the country. >>> >>> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe >>> reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well >>> as in the military. >>> >>> To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. >>> If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most >>> likely that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat >>> Valley and Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led >>> insurgency n Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch >>> further attacks on India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia >>> region. >>> >>> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, >>> and potentially as disastrous. >>> >>> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can >>> be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi wrote: >>> >>>> From: Aman Sethi >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >>>> myths about pakistan >>>> To: "taraprakash" >>>> Cc: "sarai list" >>>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM >>>> Dear Taraprakash, >>>> I have never denied the presence of militant groups in >>>> pakistan. That >>>> there are "links" between armed groups and power >>>> centres in pakistan >>>> is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting >>>> question is >>>> the nature of these "links" and the nature of the >>>> state. >>>> >>>> If I was to say the "Indian state" has >>>> connections with terror >>>> organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would >>>> then ask - >>>> okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or >>>> in the >>>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does >>>> the >>>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant >>>> commander? >>>> Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier >>>> people on >>>> both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably >>>> murky waters >>>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry >>>> for the >>>> mixed metaphor) ... >>>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications >>>> in drawing >>>> straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying. >>>> best >>>> a. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash >>>> wrote: >>>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I >>>> said in an earlier >>>> > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the >>>> batsman as long as >>>> > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and >>>> irresponsible to give a state >>>> > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and >>>> broad minded to do so. I >>>> > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India >>>> has links with Jihadi >>>> > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to >>>> destabilize Pakistan. But I >>>> > will definitely not agree with the claim that >>>> Pakistani state has no nexus >>>> > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani >>>> flag on Red fort as >>>> > their stated aim. >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman >>>> Sethi" >>>> > To: "sarai list" >>>> >>>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM >>>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered >>>> houses - re: 10 myths about >>>> > pakistan >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for >>>> posting this text) and >>>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts, >>>> >> >>>> >> This is in response to a conversation on the >>>> authenticity/ >>>> >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed >>>> Hanif's text that appeared in the Times >>>> >> of India in the Times of India -and I have >>>> appended at the end of this >>>> >> mail. >>>> >> >>>> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's >>>> text (appended below) >>>> >> interesting is primarily because often when >>>> reading/learning about >>>> >> another place - especially through the eyes of >>>> correspondents - it is >>>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For >>>> weeks I have been >>>> >> having conversation with friends about how >>>> pakistan appears to be >>>> >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really >>>> knowing that that >>>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the >>>> chasm already - what >>>> >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no >>>> brink, no teetering, >>>> >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday. >>>> >> >>>> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading >>>> Slaughterhouse Five - >>>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden >>>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after >>>> >> describing the devastation of dresden as a >>>> moonscape utterly ravaged >>>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes >>>> >> >>>> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a >>>> suburb untouched by fire and >>>> >> explosions. The guards and americans came at >>>> nightfall to an innn >>>> >> which was open for business. There was >>>> candlelight. There were fires >>>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty >>>> tables ad chairs >>>> >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds >>>> with covers turned >>>> >> down upstairs." >>>> >> >>>> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or >>>> Sebal's incredible >>>> >> Natural History of Destruction there is the >>>> tendency to abstract trite >>>> >> observations like "ordinary people continue >>>> with their normal lives >>>> >> even as the world collapses around them." I >>>> would argue that what >>>> >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is >>>> that they remind us >>>> >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this >>>> destruction, this >>>> >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed >>>> Hanif's text - (without >>>> >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a >>>> snapshot into the >>>> >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan. >>>> >> >>>> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in >>>> Delhi, Surat, >>>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 - >>>> one is tempted to >>>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of >>>> implosion and the >>>> >> embarrassment of "state failure" that >>>> Indians so happily foist upon >>>> >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in >>>> India will readily >>>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter >>>> what the disaster, we >>>> >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in >>>> cricket - the >>>> >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit >>>> of doubt. Perhaps >>>> >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the >>>> same privileges. >>>> >> >>>> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends >>>> something like this : >>>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans >>>> could sleep in his stable >>>> >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz >>>> coffee and a little beer. >>>> >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them >>>> bedding down in the >>>> >> straw. >>>> >> "Good Night Americans," he said in >>>> German, "Sleep well." >>>> >> >>>> >> best >>>> >> a. >>>> >> >>>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan >>>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, >>>> >> Mohammed Hanif >>>> >> >>>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the >>>> Indian press can >>>> >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one >>>> wonders what place >>>> >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't >>>> be surprised if an Indian >>>> >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked >>>> the same question in >>>> >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions >>>> about Pakistan and its >>>> >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian >>>> media... >>>> >> >>>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's >>>> government controls the >>>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or >>>> ISI controls the >>>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI >>>> control the Jihadis. >>>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly >>>> it's the tail that wags >>>> >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi >>>> alliance was a marriage >>>> >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. >>>> Pakistan army has >>>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis >>>> than it ever did >>>> >> fighting India. >>>> >> >>>> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: >>>> Let's not forget that >>>> >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired >>>> from his job as the >>>> >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf >>>> first appeased >>>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them >>>> again. The country >>>> >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, >>>> above all for its >>>> >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in >>>> sections of the Indian >>>> >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh >>>> a military uniform, >>>> >> put all the armed forces under his direct command, >>>> make his word the >>>> >> law of the land, and he too will go around >>>> thumping his chest saying >>>> >> that it's his destiny to save India from >>>> Indians . Zardari will never >>>> >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But >>>> Pakistanis do not >>>> >> want another Musharraf. >>>> >> >>>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, >>>> Pakistan is very >>>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as >>>> well. General >>>> >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the >>>> north for being >>>> >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same >>>> time it bombed >>>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and >>>> for subscribing to >>>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. >>>> You have probably >>>> >> heard the joke about other countries having armies >>>> but Pakistan's army >>>> >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it >>>> funny. >>>> >> >>>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's >>>> nuclear programme is under a >>>> >> sophisticated command and control system, no more >>>> under threat than >>>> >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are >>>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish >>>> >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's >>>> security establishment's other >>>> >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in >>>> the last couple of >>>> >> years have become its biggest liability. >>>> >> >>>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then >>>> Pakistanis have not >>>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long >>>> time that they have >>>> >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains >>>> are late but they >>>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre >>>> festivals, melas, and >>>> >> fashion models than a failed state can >>>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase >>>> >> from President Zardari, there are lots of >>>> non-state actors like Abdul >>>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, >>>> orphanages and >>>> >> shelters for sick animals. >>>> >> >>>> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every >>>> half-decent election in this >>>> >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties >>>> have never won more >>>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year >>>> Pakistan witnessed the >>>> >> largest civil rights movements in the history of >>>> this region. It was >>>> >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But >>>> since people weren't >>>> >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody >>>> outside Pakistan >>>> >> took much notice. >>>> >> >>>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four >>>> provinces in Pakistan - >>>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any >>>> popular anti-India >>>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as >>>> enemy-in-chief on >>>> >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling >>>> potatoes to India than >>>> >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida >>>> inspired jihadis who >>>> >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as >>>> much as they hate a >>>> >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In >>>> fact there is not much >>>> >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, >>>> China CDs, barbers, >>>> >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan >>>> recently said that these >>>> >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but >>>> nobody takes him >>>> >> seriously. >>>> >> >>>> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in >>>> the tribal areas of >>>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or >>>> Muridke, two favourite >>>> >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because >>>> those are the cities >>>> >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all >>>> how much training do >>>> >> you need if you are going to shoot at random >>>> civilians or blow >>>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone >>>> thinks a few missiles >>>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a >>>> lesson, they should >>>> >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the >>>> map. >>>> >> >>>> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the >>>> agencies have had a >>>> >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the >>>> neighbouring countries. >>>> >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to >>>> protecting their own >>>> >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a >>>> bigger, more notorious >>>> >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the >>>> jihad against the >>>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against >>>> those very jihadis. >>>> >> >>>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis >>>> visiting India till the >>>> >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us >>>> about India's slums, >>>> >> and that there was nothing to buy except >>>> handicrafts and saris. Then >>>> >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that >>>> nobody slept hungry >>>> >> in their country. But now, not only do people >>>> sleep hungry in both the >>>> >> countries, they also commit suicide because they >>>> see nothing but a >>>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer >>>> contemplating suicide >>>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her >>>> children in Karachi >>>> >> because she can't feed them: this is what we >>>> have achieved in our >>>> >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson. >>>> >> >>>> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of >>>> Exploding Mangoes' >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms >>>> >> _________________________________________ >>>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >>>> the city. >>>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> >> To subscribe: send an email to >>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> >> To unsubscribe: >>>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> >> List archive: >>>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to >>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >>>> header. >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 22:23:41 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:23:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Amarnath shrine board reconstituted with six new members Message-ID: <6353c690901070853l5efed922s349dc3dcc820c0b6@mail.gmail.com> Amarnath shrine board reconstituted with six new members 7 Jan 2009, 1953 hrs IST, PTI JAMMU: Jammu and Kashmir Governor N N Vohra on Wednesday reconstituted the Shri Amarnathji Shrine Board (SASB) by appointing six new members including santoor maestro Pandit Bhjan Sopori, spiritual leader Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and leading writer Kapila Vatsayan. According to a notification issued by the Governor in his capacity as chairman of SASB, he appointed the new members for three years with immediate effect. Among the other new members of the board are noted environmentalist Sunita Narain, Justice (retd) G D Sharma and Ved Kumari Ghai, a Sanskrit scholar. Prior to reconstitution of the Board, Vohra accepted the resignations of its erstwhile members-Justice Sharma, Raghu Modi, Sunil Sachdev, Manoj Gaur, Arun Kumar, Vimala Dhar, Neerja Mattoo and Vishwa Murti Shastri. A spokesman of the Board said Justice Sharma has been appointed for another term. Pandit Bhajan Sopori is a music director of repute, having produced several musical productions and composed musicfor songs in various Indian languages. He has also composed music for operas, tele-films, serials and documentaries and taught music at Washington University, St. Louis and the University of Oslo(Norway). Ved Kumari Ghai is a renowned Sanskrit scholar and former head of Sanskrit department in the Universityof Jammu. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 00:11:54 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 00:11:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pak NSA Mahmud Ali Durrani sacked Message-ID: <6353c690901071041s7d5c4afbya43bbc40dc19dc49@mail.gmail.com> Pak NSA Mahmud Ali Durrani sacked 7 Jan 2009, 2312 hrs IST, PTI ISLAMABAD: In a bizarre drama, Pakistan's National Security Adviser Maj Gen(retd) Mahmud Ali Durrani was sacked on Wednesday night for having indicated days ago that Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone Pakistani terrorist arrested for the Mumbai terror attacks, may have been a Pakistani, a fact ironically confirmed by the government earlier in the day. A brief statement issued by the Prime Minister'sHouse said Yousuf Raza Gilani had sacked Durrani "for his irresponsible behaviour (of) not taking Prime Minister and other stakeholders into confidence and lack of coordination on matters of national security". Gilani was quoted by Geo News channel as saying that he had sacked Durrani for commenting on the issue of the nationality of Iman alias Ajmal Kasab without taking him (Gilani) or the government into confidence. The premier told the channel that Durrani's "irresponsible" comments had affected Pakistan's image and went against the government's policies. The move came soon after Information Minister Sherry Rehman and Foreign Office spokesman Mohammad Sadiq both told reporters that an investigation by Pakistani security agencies had confirmed that Kasab was a Pakistani national. Rehman also said Pakistan's investigation into the Mumbai attacks was continuing. Some reports suggested that Durrani's sacking would have to be endorsed by President Asif Ali Zardari. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 01:26:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:56:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-43 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901071155q2f1e0ebds796e3ae121fca5e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901061339j1ecb6a0bkc51f749df453ee6a@mail.gmail.com> <48AD06BF-847C-4557-925C-5F77EF485182@sarai.net> <65be9bf40901062358u550b381cl5d62b29aef3cd3a0@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901070032w8d8a811i75942b43d3af944@mail.gmail.com> <55D17754-5FFB-4275-8213-9B0996D8A581@sarai.net> <65be9bf40901071155q2f1e0ebds796e3ae121fca5e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071156w2172d25fg8939d0661c579262@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, I value your suggestion. From my perspective it seems that the underlying assumption in your suggestion seems to be that knowledge accrued over time and under one space may have more value and currency than fragmented knowledge . There appears to be an additional concern about memory. That if a space stores and archives multi-thematic resources a particular information thread may get lost. Your concern I think address some of the key issues of about the nature of knowledge that academies and research institutions the world over are thinking through for many years now. The question really is about formulating a formal framework to present knowledge. A body of work, if you may, which is valid but don't you feel even formal frameworks tends to sometimes work against the grain. How many people, for instance actually read and take help of dedicated trade journals. Please allow me to recount an anecdote in this regard- I once met a Cambridge historian on the steps of National Archives in Delhi. I didn't know who he was till in the course of a conversation I in all my naivety suggested him to read his own paper, which was published in some obscure social history journal. He was as surprised to come across a reader as I was, to actually talk to an author of a rather long and technical piece on early 18th century Subcontinental history. He jokingly pointed out that amongst professional historians it is widely believed that two and a half people read such essays. He was glad to have found the first person who have actually read his writings. The point being that clustering of knowledge sometimes produces conditions which may work towards it becoming distant. In a discursive list like framework knowledge is in circulation and hence it is more extant. The danger of obscurity is definitely there as you rightly point out but there is also a very perceptible sense of adventure, in the sense that what ever you think may be challenged. Which in fact is a greater lure. I am in no way laying claims to proprietorship to the knowledge that I have shared with other members on this list and I take this response as an opportunity to reassert that I shall be more than happy if this knowledge is reorganized, reformulated, referred to reused in any which way possible. Warm regards Taha On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> dear Taha, >> >> I am not suggesting to move away from doing research in a public way. >> It is an important move and will slowly change establish ways of doing >> research. >> >> What i was suggesting is that blogs are better format to build the >> resource base and broaden it's coverage. It will be nice if we get >> excerpts, links to research materials and your annotations and there >> is one other place that we can go to see all this in some sequence. >> That is why i suggested a blog. In a multi-theme lists resources gets >> buried a lot more than in blogs dedicated to specific thematic. >> >> warmly >> jeebesh >> >> On 07-Jan-09, at 2:02 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: >> >> > PS: I will be extremely happy if any member of the reader list is >> > able to >> > use this knowledge in any way. I think the Information Society >> > Project at >> > Sarai under Shuddha have done a commendable job in creating an >> > avenue to do >> > 'research', (in what ever ways it could be interpreted) and I feel >> > that >> > time has come in India to introduce a public practice of thinking >> > especially >> > of those issues which have till now been bracketed under 'research' >> > and >> > hence were shoved to be processed and reproduced as a -cant- really >> > and >> > displayed and exhibited in select and sacred spaces of university >> > conferences. Don't you feel that we must allow ourselves to be little >> > profane in our thinking and articulation about emerging social >> > configurations. I would be more than willing to engage anyone in a >> > dialogue >> > about MNIC because I feel as Indians it will have a huge amount of >> > impact on >> > all of us. This is not to suggest that all forms of University >> > produced >> > knowledge is unnecessay, not at all, this is rather to allow for >> > creation of >> > more profane, loose, argumentative, forms of knowledge. Sarai talk >> > if you >> > may in its most literal sense. >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Taha Mehmood < >> 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com >> > >wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Jeebesh, >> >> >> >> I think creating a blog is a brilliant idea. It may work as a >> >> distinct >> >> repository for all the materials related to the MNIC. >> >> >> >> I completely support any initiative in this regard. >> >> >> >> My personal interest is to however use the platform provided by the >> >> reader-list as a blog or a repository. The reason for this is I >> >> have often >> >> come across many practitioners of research, especially academic >> >> research in >> >> the last three or so years that I have worked in the sector and I >> >> have >> >> sensed a feeling of insecurity and over protectiveness in so far >> >> their >> >> material sources is concerned. >> >> >> >> The premise is usually that an academician or a researcher is >> >> usually as >> >> good or as bad as her resources. >> >> >> >> I want to work against this notion and create as public a research >> >> base as >> >> possible because I think with any sort of research we are essentially >> >> dealing with questions pertaining to epistemology and I think, it >> >> will be >> >> good for all us, if we can create an environment of public and >> >> collaborative knowledge based on shared research. :) rather than >> >> stress on >> >> purely individual forms of knowledge production which is more >> >> hierarchical >> >> in nature and is dependent on institutional protocols of knowledge >> >> dissemination. >> >> >> >> Warm regards >> >> >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Jeebesh wrote: >> >> >> >>> dear Taha, >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for taking the list to a serious and uncharted terrain. I >> >>> have >> >>> a suggestion. It maybe worthwhile to blog all these news items and >> >>> the >> >>> blog links, excerpts and your annotations to the list to keep us >> >>> aware >> >>> and generate a discussion. This way the blog will become an >> >>> important >> >>> site for all of us to know the various ways in which you are tracing >> >>> the evolution of the MNIC card etc. It will be a vital archive and >> >>> your annotations will keep us on the toe. >> >>> >> >>> Greetings for a stimulating 2009. >> >>> >> >>> warmly >> >>> Jeebesh >> >>> >> >>> On 07-Jan-09, at 3:09 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> http://www.secureidnews.com/2008/01/08/id-cards-for-delhi-citizens-trigger-intense-debate >> >>>> >> >>>> SecureIDNews >> >>>> Government ID, Smart Cards, Identification and Authentication >> >>>> Technology >> >>>> >> >>>> ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate >> >>>> >> >>>> Tuesday, January 8, 2008 in News >> >>>> >> >>>> The Indian government mandating all citizens in Delhi carry ID >> >>>> cards >> >>>> after January 15th is causing debate over a police state versus >> >>>> security against terrorists. The opposition party (Bhartiya Janata >> >>>> Party, BJP) believes in a national citizen register for use in >> >>>> passports, voting and health care while some in Congress feel it >> >>>> would >> >>>> give the police too much power. At the time of launching the >> >>>> scheme in >> >>>> India in November 2003, the government had stressed that the main >> >>>> propose to issue multipurpose National ID cards is to provide a >> >>>> credible individual identification system for improving the >> >>>> security >> >>>> conditions and to help the e-governance by improving the >> >>>> citizen-government interface. >> >>>> >> >>>> ID cards for Delhi citizens trigger intense debate >> >>>> >> >>>> * BJP believes ID cards will help unmask potential terrorists >> >>>> * Congress and left parties say cards may become a potential for >> >>>> 'police raj' >> >>>> >> >>>> NEW DELHI — The government order mandating all citizens living in >> >>>> Indian capital Delhi to carry identity proofs after January 15 >> >>>> lest to >> >>>> invite police action has triggered an intense debate. >> >>>> >> >>>> Welcoming the decision, the opposition Bhartiya Janata Party >> >>>> (BJP) on >> >>>> Saturday revived its campaign for a national citizen register to >> >>>> have >> >>>> the record of every Indian citizen in the country. >> >>>> >> >>>> "Delhi governor's decision for the security purpose is welcome as >> >>>> it >> >>>> would trigger a debate and study of the practical difficulties that >> >>>> may arise from the multiplicity of the ID proofs that the people >> >>>> may >> >>>> have to carry while many may not have any such proof at all," BJP >> >>>> spokesman Prakash Javadekar told reporters. He said the move >> >>>> initiated >> >>>> in Delhi should be followed up with the issue of the multi-purpose >> >>>> national identity cards (MNIC) across the country and a national >> >>>> citizen register be created to keep record of these cards. >> >>>> >> >>>> Javadekar said that such cards should be handy to carry in pocket >> >>>> and >> >>>> have all the necessary electronic data on the person on a secure >> >>>> micro >> >>>> processor chip implanted in them to be useful for all purposes >> >>>> including elections and issue of passports and ration cards. >> >>>> >> >>>> Unmasking terrorists: The BJP believes that the national ID cards >> >>>> will >> >>>> not only help in enhancing national security but they would also >> >>>> help >> >>>> in unmasking potential terrorists and guard against the illegal >> >>>> immigrants. >> >>>> >> >>>> Police raj: However, leaders in the Congress and the left parties >> >>>> believed that such cards may become a potential for the police >> >>>> raj and >> >>>> harassment of the citizens. Any citizen not having the ID card >> >>>> may be >> >>>> even dubbed Bangladeshi as it used to happen during the NDA >> >>>> regime, a >> >>>> Congress leader pointed out. >> >>>> >> >>>> Others in the BJP headquarters underlined that the MNIC project was >> >>>> initiated by the NDA government in November 2003 and its importance >> >>>> was also underscored by then President Abdul Kalam in his 2006 >> >>>> Independence Day address to the nation. Though the present UPA >> >>>> government has continued the pilot project launched in selected >> >>>> sub-districts of 12 states and union territory of Puducherry, there >> >>>> appears no urgency to put it on fast track despite acknowledging >> >>>> that >> >>>> the national ID to every Indian citizen would go a long way in >> >>>> increasing the national security. >> >>>> >> >>>> The prime reason for then deputy prime minister and now opposition >> >>>> leader Lal Krishna Advani to push for these cards was to help in >> >>>> identifying the militants and the Bangladeshis allegedly staying in >> >>>> India illegally. The Delhi governor's order has enthused the BJP to >> >>>> once again push for such cards as a part of their campaign for >> >>>> increasing the national security. >> >>>> >> >>>> As part of the pilot project, only last May the first set of the >> >>>> multi-purpose national identity cards were handed over to the >> >>>> citizens >> >>>> of Pooth Khurd in Narela locality of the capital. >> >>>> >> >>>> The pilot project for collection of the database of citizens and >> >>>> preparation of the smart ID cards is going on in the sub- >> >>>> districts of >> >>>> Rajasthan, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir , Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Goa, >> >>>> Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and >> >>>> Puducherry. The project involves collection of particulars of the >> >>>> individuals, photographs and finger biometrics of all those who >> >>>> are 18 >> >>>> and above. The national ID cards are prevalent in many countries >> >>>> around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, >> >>>> Thailand >> >>>> and some European countries. Some countries, such as Denmark or >> >>>> Sweden, make widespread use of personal identification numbers >> >>>> issued >> >>>> at birth for all official transactions. >> >>>> >> >>>> A debate continues in the countries like United States and United >> >>>> Kingdom on the merits of adopting national ID cards as they already >> >>>> have the system of the photograph-bearing driving licences for the >> >>>> identification purposes. >> >>>> >> >>>> At the time of launching the scheme in India in November 2003, the >> >>>> government had stressed that the main propose to issue multipurpose >> >>>> National ID cards is to provide a credible individual >> >>>> identification >> >>>> system for improving the security conditions and to help the >> >>>> e-governance by improving the citizen-government interface. [end] >> >>>> _________________________________________ >> >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From vashsand at hotmail.com Thu Jan 8 02:42:03 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:12:03 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] CIA,ISI,KGB,RAW and other girls Message-ID: it seems to me all these organizions are quite feminine, inqvistive, jealous, unecessary mad. Any comments! i would like to have serious discussion with fair and unfair sex, inspite of my sexist opening May there be peace in underworld Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 03:16:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:46:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On Cards, Qasab and Clarification. Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071346n7c26bd1ch6ef7bd1d1b399ddc@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, It appears that Citizenship remains a contestable and negotiable domain even when national databases are present. Earlier the position of Pakistani establishment was, that Qasab was not a citizen, the premise was that, his name did not figure in a national database. Excerpt from the story below- -Pakistan had previously said Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab's name was not listed in the national database of citizens.- In so far as the position of Pakistani government vis-a-vis the issue of Kasab's citizenship is concerned, a complete -U- turn has happened. They now say what that he is in fact a Pakistani Citizen. Please read the story below for more. In all probability a similar process using possible similar technology sponsored by similar corporates perhaps will be used to replicate the National Identity Card experiment in India in the name of MNIC. What we in India need to bear in mind is that Qasab was an exceptional case. He had killed and murdered people with impunity. There was an immense pressure from not only from the Indian Govt. but also from Govts all over the world on the Pakistani establishment to clarify the Indian govt's claim that Kasab was Pakistani. Given the exceptional nature of the situation the claims were checked and verified. I wonder what would have happened had it not been the case? For the sake of a thought experiment we can perhaps think more about the ways in which we can analyze the proposal to introduce the National Identity Card. Lets take the case of say, one Ram Nath. Now Mr. Nath who happens to be a landless peasant, like millions of his countrymen, was not at his place of permanent residence when the survey party from the Government of India came to his village, in Uttar Pradesh, for the primary survey of MNIC. He was in Delhi working on an construction site. This would mean this personal data will not be entered in some national database. Which would result in him not getting a plastic token of citizenship, that is the MNIC card. What would happen then in so far as the question of his citizenship is concerned? Will he be allowed to claim his Indian citizenship? Will he be allowed to claim benefits that the GOI will dole out? Will some babu in the Registrar General office take pains to verify Mr.Nath's citizenship status? Will the police and other kind members of our official administrative setup treat Mr.Nath with words of kindness and assist him in getting his token? Regards Taha http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7816285.stm BBC News Mumbai gunman is Pakistan citizen Pakistan has said the only surviving gunman from November's attacks in Mumbai (Bombay) is a Pakistani citizen. After weeks of refusing to confirm the allegations, the foreign ministry said: "We have just been informed... that Ajmal Kasab is a Pakistani national." Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab was detained on the first night of the attacks. India says all 10 gunmen were from the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. Relations with Pakistan, which denies any role, are under strain. More than 170 people died when 10 gunmen attacked Mumbai on 26 November. Meanwhile, Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has dismissed his national security adviser, Mehmood Ali Durrani, amid the tensions with India. It is not entirely clear why Mr Durrani lost his job. One report suggested it was because he had made unauthorised comments to the media that the surviving gunman was Pakistani. A prime ministerial statement said Mr Durrani had been sacked "for his irresponsible behaviour for not taking the prime minister and other stakeholders into confidence, and a lack of co-ordination on matters of national security". 'Investigations' It is the first time Pakistan has acknowledged any links to the gunmen after weeks of refusing to confirm Indian claims. "We are confirming that Qasab is Pakistani but investigations are still ongoing," Information Minister Sherry Rehman told the BBC on Wednesday. Pakistan had previously said Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab's name was not listed in the national database of citizens. The BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says that it is not clear why the Pakistani authorities have taken so long to admit publicly what many officials long ago conceded in private. But our correspondent says the Pakistani security establishment in particular has a reputation for dragging its feet when it comes to making any sort of military or political concessions to India. Confirmation of the suspect's nationality comes after India provided Pakistan with a dossier of evidence which it said linked the Mumbai attackers and elements in Pakistan. On Tuesday, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said that because of the "sophistication and military precision of the attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan". Pakistan rejected Mr Singh's allegations and accused India of raising regional tension. Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab faces a number of charges including murder, attempted murder, waging war against a country and criminal conspiracy. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 03:16:49 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:46:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On Cards, Qasab and Clarifications. Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071346m5f303c13ta348f4b7d05443b@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, It appears that Citizenship remains a contestable and negotiable domain even when national databases are present. Earlier the position of Pakistani establishment was, that Qasab was not a citizen, the premise was that, his name did not figure in a national database. Excerpt from the story below- -Pakistan had previously said Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab's name was not listed in the national database of citizens.- In so far as the position of Pakistani government vis-a-vis the issue of Kasab's citizenship is concerned, a complete -U- turn has happened. They now say what that he is in fact a Pakistani Citizen. Please read the story below for more. In all probability a similar process using possible similar technology sponsored by similar corporates perhaps will be used to replicate the National Identity Card experiment in India in the name of MNIC. What we in India need to bear in mind is that Qasab was an exceptional case. He had killed and murdered people with impunity. There was an immense pressure from not only from the Indian Govt. but also from Govts all over the world on the Pakistani establishment to clarify the Indian govt's claim that Kasab was Pakistani. Given the exceptional nature of the situation the claims were checked and verified. I wonder what would have happened had it not been the case? For the sake of a thought experiment we can perhaps think more about the ways in which we can analyze the proposal to introduce the National Identity Card. Lets take the case of say, one Ram Nath. Now Mr. Nath who happens to be a landless peasant, like millions of his countrymen, was not at his place of permanent residence when the survey party from the Government of India came to his village, in Uttar Pradesh, for the primary survey of MNIC. He was in Delhi working on an construction site. This would mean this personal data will not be entered in some national database. Which would result in him not getting a plastic token of citizenship, that is the MNIC card. What would happen then in so far as the question of his citizenship is concerned? Will he be allowed to claim his Indian citizenship? Will he be allowed to claim benefits that the GOI will dole out? Will some babu in the Registrar General office take pains to verify Mr.Nath's citizenship status? Will the police and other kind members of our official administrative setup treat Mr.Nath with words of kindness and assist him in getting his token? Regards Taha http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7816285.stm BBC News Mumbai gunman is Pakistan citizen Pakistan has said the only surviving gunman from November's attacks in Mumbai (Bombay) is a Pakistani citizen. After weeks of refusing to confirm the allegations, the foreign ministry said: "We have just been informed... that Ajmal Kasab is a Pakistani national." Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab was detained on the first night of the attacks. India says all 10 gunmen were from the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. Relations with Pakistan, which denies any role, are under strain. More than 170 people died when 10 gunmen attacked Mumbai on 26 November. Meanwhile, Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has dismissed his national security adviser, Mehmood Ali Durrani, amid the tensions with India. It is not entirely clear why Mr Durrani lost his job. One report suggested it was because he had made unauthorised comments to the media that the surviving gunman was Pakistani. A prime ministerial statement said Mr Durrani had been sacked "for his irresponsible behaviour for not taking the prime minister and other stakeholders into confidence, and a lack of co-ordination on matters of national security". 'Investigations' It is the first time Pakistan has acknowledged any links to the gunmen after weeks of refusing to confirm Indian claims. "We are confirming that Qasab is Pakistani but investigations are still ongoing," Information Minister Sherry Rehman told the BBC on Wednesday. Pakistan had previously said Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab's name was not listed in the national database of citizens. The BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says that it is not clear why the Pakistani authorities have taken so long to admit publicly what many officials long ago conceded in private. But our correspondent says the Pakistani security establishment in particular has a reputation for dragging its feet when it comes to making any sort of military or political concessions to India. Confirmation of the suspect's nationality comes after India provided Pakistan with a dossier of evidence which it said linked the Mumbai attackers and elements in Pakistan. On Tuesday, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said that because of the "sophistication and military precision of the attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan". Pakistan rejected Mr Singh's allegations and accused India of raising regional tension. Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab faces a number of charges including murder, attempted murder, waging war against a country and criminal conspiracy. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 06:25:37 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:55:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901062224w22d5e55ao7d716b76b0057ace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <679489.57841.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Taha, What is the benefit of throwing platitudes around? Why don't you join the discussion and help us "to peer more closely and throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks and whites apart"? I am sorry but you are being patronizing.What makes you think I was not already doing that? Regards Rahul --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "Aman Sethi" , "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 11:54 AM > Dear all, > > I think if we invest some time in thinking about the big > picture and > consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can perhaps > arrive at a better > understanding of the situation. What we are seeing in India > and Pakistan as > suggested by the recent spate of events in both the > countries and > interpretations of these events, is a ripening up of the > tension of the idea > of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear notion of the > State in the > subcontinent, has produced certain dilemmas. These > dilemmas are translated > and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily formal in > their > orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass we > witness an ugly > churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we may invest > our energies to > arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take a position > to suspend any > judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's point of > view is invalid or > that Rahul's position is right on target or Taraprakash > is way off the mark > but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we need to peer > more closely and > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we > pull out the blacks > and whites apart. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi > wrote: > > > Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of > mudslinging (or > > murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. > Hopefully none of > > us will ever need bulletproof cars. > > > > Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who > simply says that > > maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a > flawed picture > > of pakistan is somehow a "human rights > activist". > > I also find it interesting that a "human rights > activist" is now > > suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights > activist!" "How dare > > you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - > when people are > > dying on the streets!" > > > > (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents > actually kill about > > 275 people a day in India - > > http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far > more than terror > > does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by > this loss. I'm > > worried because in the road accident,even the > bullet-proof gift of the > > pakistan government will not help.) > > > > Of course one never wants to appear to be a > pak-apologist - good > > heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - > what ever that is - i > > presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must > confess a > > self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive > rather than > > regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that > others follow suit. > > > > To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan > and India are > > these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing > the pipe of > > peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has > little or nothing to > > do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even > the pakistan > > civil govt is not claiming that. > > I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to > actually try and > > comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why > hanif's piece is > > of interest - not so much because of the piece - but > the reactions to > > it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his > toupee/is a news > > illiterate/" > > > > If one accepts that the civil government and the > military and the ISI > > have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that > there is a > > certain absence of control. > > > > At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say > - enough is > > enough - but that is unintelligent - and more > importantly - > > uninteresting. > > best > > a. > > > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash > > > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed > Saleem Shahzad will also > > be honoured as someone "talking through his > topee", to quote Yasir from an > > earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his > topee" is Pakistan based > > correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. > You can read another > > report by him on > > > www.bbchindi.com > > > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi > elements working against > > India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the > water of nexus > > between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these > groups are part of the > > state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will > give these progressive > > journalists, the leftist activists and human right > activists of Pakistan > > bullet proof cars. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul > Asthana" < > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > To: "taraprakash" > ; "Aman Sethi" > > gmail.com> > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and > ordered houses - re: 10 > > myths about pakistan > > > > > > > > >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by > reading Hanif's piece.He > > could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want > to paint the full > > picture. > > >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his > first point.There is an > > awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of > knowledge viz "Nobody knows > > the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked > with everybody? > > >> Why has he not made the distinction between > the jihadis that they are > > killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the > Alqaeda flavor) and the > > LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing > Indians)? Does he not > > know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? > > >> I would comment on his other points > later.People may find the following > > article informative. > > >> > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html > > >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan > > >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad > > >> > > >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the > Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) > > were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to > Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - > > as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian > security forces during > > their three-day rampage last week. > > >> > > >> What did not go according to plan was the > capture of 21-year-old Ajmal > > Amir Kesab, who has given details of the > militants' plot that was hatched by > > elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence > (ISI) and the LET, > > including the training of the mission's members at > PNS Iqbal (a naval > > commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the > capital Islamabad. > > >> > > >> This single arrest has played very badly with > the separate plans of > > >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET > and al-Qaeda. And beyond the > > escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the > crucial question now > > arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's > pressure to meaningfully clamp > > down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI > forward section > > officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? > > >> > > >> "Everybody wishes for a war between > India and Pakistan," a > > middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times > Online on condition of > > anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for > the battle to happen, today > > all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela > for battle between > > India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for > the mujahideen from > > Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a > prayer offered when there > > is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to > remove all fear and > > pressure and grant victory.) > > >> > > >> The militants obviously want their war, but > the United States now wants > > war on the militants, and therein lies a major > problem. > > >> > > >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint > Chiefs of Staff, is in > > Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, > following her visit to > > India. Asia Times Online contacts say that > Mullen's overriding message will > > be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which > has renamed itself > > Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the > Mumbai plot. > > >> > > >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI > forward section head (a major) > > allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to > be turned into the > > Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to > Mumbai attack December 2.) > > Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that > changes were made at the > > top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in > which the major was > > able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without > the knowledge of his > > superiors. > > >> Washington's pressure now puts the > Pakistani military on the spot, and > > it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, > General Ashfaq Parvez > > Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. > > >> > > >> Militant support > > >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz > Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a > > city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of > Karachi, on November > > 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after > the Mumbai attack on > > November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, > the garrison city > > twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile > meeting held in the Office > > of Strategic Organization. > > >> > > >> He was told that the Indian air force was on > high alert and asked what > > possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed > assured that the LET > > would be the first line of defense against the Indian > navy in the Arabian > > Sea through its marine operations, and that it would > escalate its activities > > in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell > militants in Pakistan's > > troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold > their fire against the > > Pakistani security forces. > > >> > > >> At the same time, because of the threat of > Indian strikes, all militant > > training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of > Pakistan-administered > > Kashmir, were evacuated. > > >> > > >> A top-level ISI official then held a > background briefing for journalists > > in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its > forces along the > > border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from > NWFP, where they are > > fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, > he said that hardline > > Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others > would support Pakistan > > if India waged war on the country. > > >> > > >> Further, the Pakistani security forces > initiated a dialogue process with > > the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and > conditions for pulling > > out the Pakistani troops. > > >> > > >> An almost perfect plan > > >> The Mumbai attack relied on local > al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian > > Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He > had cased the Jewish > > community center that was attacked and where several > people were killed. His > > information was that it was being used by Israeli > intelligence - Mossad. > > >> > > >> Information on such key targets was passed on > to the LET, and its > > well-trained commandos then carried out their > meticulously planned operation > > in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. > > >> > > >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on > Indian strategic targets > > immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's > arrest prevented this > > through his revelations of his LET background. > > >> > > >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai > attack was not carried out > > at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or > even by the ISI's high > > command. But there is now proof of the involvement of > the LET and of some > > junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US > will apply pressure on > > Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. > > >> > > >> But there is a problem. > > >> > > >> Militants tighten their grip > > >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of > control, with militancy > > spilling over from the tribal areas into this > province. > > >> > > >> In the past four days, militants have > abducted a record 60 people from > > the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired > army officers and > > members or relatives of the Awami National Party > (ANP), which rules in the > > province. The Taliban have butchered many people with > affiliations to the > > ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. > > >> > > >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization > supply convoys passing > > through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have > come under increasing > > attacks. In the most recent incident, militants > destroyed 40 containers in > > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. > > >> > > >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa > (LET), with its > > well-defined vertical command structure under the > single command of Saeed, > > could commit its several thousand members, virtually a > para-military force, > > to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked > Pakistani militants. > > >> > > >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated > group from doing this is its > > under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If > the authorities start > > to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all > hell could break > > loose inside the country. > > >> > > >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, > there could be a severe > > reaction from the more hardline elements in that > organization, as well as in > > the military. > > >> > > >> To date, the authorities have not given any > indication of their plans. > > If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and > Rice, it is most likely > > that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the > Swat Valley and > > Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the > Taliban-led insurgency n > > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch > further attacks on > > India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia > region. > > >> > > >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the > LET is equally unappealing, > > and potentially as disastrous. > > >> > > >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times > Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can > > be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com > > >> > > >> > > >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi > wrote: > > >> > > >>> From: Aman Sethi > > > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes > and ordered houses - re: 10 > > myths about pakistan > > >>> To: "taraprakash" > > > >>> Cc: "sarai list" > > > >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 > AM > > >>> Dear Taraprakash, > > >>> I have never denied the presence of > militant groups in > > >>> pakistan. That > > >>> there are "links" between armed > groups and power > > >>> centres in pakistan > > >>> is not something i am contesting - I > think the interesting > > >>> question is > > >>> the nature of these "links" and > the nature of the > > >>> state. > > >>> > > >>> If I was to say the "Indian > state" has > > >>> connections with terror > > >>> organisations in kashmir - what would > that mean? One would > > >>> then ask - > > >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say > we say the IB - or > > >>> in the > > >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once > asks - okay, so does > > >>> the > > >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact > with a militant > > >>> commander? > > >>> Probably not - its probably a connection > between mid-tier > > >>> people on > > >>> both sides - from here on we start > entering reasonably > > >>> murky waters > > >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb > its depths (sorry > > >>> for the > > >>> mixed metaphor) ... > > >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of > the complications > > >>> in drawing > > >>> straight lines between dots -that is all > I am saying. > > >>> best > > >>> a. > > >>> > > >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, > taraprakash > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like > to clarify what I > > >>> said in an earlier > > >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of > the doubt to the > > >>> batsman as long as > > >>> > there were doubts. I think it is > baseless and > > >>> irresponsible to give a state > > >>> > clean chit just because it sounds > progressive and > > >>> broad minded to do so. I > > >>> > wouldn't object if you were to > say that even India > > >>> has links with Jihadi > > >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India > uses to > > >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I > > >>> > will definitely not agree with the > claim that > > >>> Pakistani state has no nexus > > >>> > with jihadi elements which have > unfurling Pakistani > > >>> flag on Red fort as > > >>> > their stated aim. > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: > "Aman > > >>> Sethi" > > >>> > To: "sarai list" > > >>> > > >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 > PM > > >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes > and ordered > > >>> houses - re: 10 myths about > > >>> > pakistan > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, > (who I thank for > > >>> posting this text) and > > >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their > thoughts, > > >>> >> > > >>> >> This is in response to a > conversation on the > > >>> authenticity/ > > >>> >> "insightfullness" of > Mohammed > > >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the > Times > > >>> >> of India in the Times of India > -and I have > > >>> appended at the end of this > > >>> >> mail. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> I think the reason I find > Mohammed Hanif's > > >>> text (appended below) > > >>> >> interesting is primarily because > often when > > >>> reading/learning about > > >>> >> another place - especially > through the eyes of > > >>> correspondents - it is > > >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives > there at all. For > > >>> weeks I have been > > >>> >> having conversation with friends > about how > > >>> pakistan appears to be > > >>> >> teetering on a brink of some > sort - without really > > >>> knowing that that > > >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is > - is it in the > > >>> chasm already - what > > >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm > - or is there no > > >>> brink, no teetering, > > >>> >> no nothing except to the grind > of the everyday. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> But fortunately, i have also > been re-reading > > >>> Slaughterhouse Five - > > >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the > dresden > > >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after > > >>> >> describing the devastation of > dresden as a > > >>> moonscape utterly ravaged > > >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes > > >>> >> > > >>> >> "Billy's story ended > very curiously in a > > >>> suburb untouched by fire and > > >>> >> explosions. The guards and > americans came at > > >>> nightfall to an innn > > >>> >> which was open for business. > There was > > >>> candlelight. There were fires > > >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. > There were empty > > >>> tables ad chairs > > >>> >> waiting for anyone who might > come, and empty beds > > >>> with covers turned > > >>> >> down upstairs." > > >>> >> > > >>> >> On reading texts like > Slaughterhouse Five - or > > >>> Sebal's incredible > > >>> >> Natural History of Destruction > there is the > > >>> tendency to abstract trite > > >>> >> observations like "ordinary > people continue > > >>> with their normal lives > > >>> >> even as the world collapses > around them." I > > >>> would argue that what > > >>> >> makes these texts interesting > -and relevant - is > > >>> that they remind us > > >>> >> that this IS normal life. This > horror, this > > >>> destruction, this > > >>> >> banality, this IS normal life. > And Mohammed > > >>> Hanif's text - (without > > >>> >> placing it in the same league) - > again gives us a > > >>> snapshot into the > > >>> >> normalcy of normal life in > pakistan. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Reading the news on the series > of bomb blasts in > > >>> Delhi, Surat, > > >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through > the fall of 2008 - > > >>> one is tempted to > > >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, > the horror of > > >>> implosion and the > > >>> >> embarrassment of "state > failure" that > > >>> Indians so happily foist upon > > >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as > those living in > > >>> India will readily > > >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt > seem so - no matter > > >>> what the disaster, we > > >>> >> are firm in our belief that > -like the batsman in > > >>> cricket - the > > >>> >> endurance of the state should be > given the benefit > > >>> of doubt. Perhaps > > >>> >> we could accord others in the > neighbourhood the > > >>> same privileges. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> The story of the americans and > the innkeepers ends > > >>> something like this : > > >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said > that the americans > > >>> could sleep in his stable > > >>> >> that night, and he gave them > soup and ersatz > > >>> coffee and a little beer. > > >>> >> Then he came out to the stable > to listen to them > > >>> bedding down in the > > >>> >> straw. > > >>> >> "Good Night > Americans," he said in > > >>> German, "Sleep well." > > >>> >> > > >>> >> best > > >>> >> a. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan > > >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > > >>> >> Mohammed Hanif > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading > about it in the > > >>> Indian press can > > >>> >> sometimes be quite a > disorienting experience: one > > >>> wonders what place > > >>> >> on earth they're talking > about? I wouldn't > > >>> be surprised if an Indian > > >>> >> reader going through Pakistani > papers has asked > > >>> the same question in > > >>> >> recent days. Here are some > common assumptions > > >>> about Pakistan and its > > >>> >> citizens that I have come across > in the Indian > > >>> media... > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: > Or Pakistan's > > >>> government controls the > > >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army > controls the jihadis. Or > > >>> ISI controls the > > >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements > from the ISI > > >>> control the Jihadis. > > >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but > increasingly > > >>> it's the tail that wags > > >>> >> the dog. We must remember that > the ISI-Jihadi > > >>> alliance was a marriage > > >>> >> of convenience, which has broken > down irrevocably. > > >>> Pakistan army has > > >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands > of these jihadis > > >>> than it ever did > > >>> >> fighting India. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Musharraf was in control, > Zardari is not: > > >>> Let's not forget that > > >>> >> General Musharraf seized power > after he was fired > > >>> from his job as the > > >>> >> army chief by an elected prime > minister. Musharraf > > >>> first appeased > > >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and > then appeased them > > >>> again. The country > > >>> >> he left behind has become a very > dangerous place, > > >>> above all for its > > >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent > hankering in > > >>> sections of the Indian > > >>> >> middle class for a strongman. > Give Manmohan Singh > > >>> a military uniform, > > >>> >> put all the armed forces under > his direct command, > > >>> make his word the > > >>> >> law of the land, and he too will > go around > > >>> thumping his chest saying > > >>> >> that it's his destiny to > save India from > > >>> Indians . Zardari will never > > >>> >> have the kind of control that > Musharraf had. But > > >>> Pakistanis do not > > >>> >> want another Musharraf. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a > small country, > > >>> Pakistan is very > > >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but > politically as > > >>> well. General > > >>> >> Musharraf's government > bombed Pashtuns in the > > >>> north for being > > >>> >> Islamists and close to the > Taliban and at the same > > >>> time it bombed > > >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT > being Islamists and > > >>> for subscribing to > > >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, > anti Taliban ethos. > > >>> You have probably > > >>> >> heard the joke about other > countries having armies > > >>> but Pakistan's army > > >>> >> having a country. Nobody in > Pakistan finds it > > >>> funny. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: > Pakistan's > > >>> nuclear programme is under a > > >>> >> sophisticated command and > control system, no more > > >>> under threat than > > >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear > assets are > > >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish > > >>> >> extremists. For a long time > Pakistan's > > >>> security establishment's other > > >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi > organisations, which in > > >>> the last couple of > > >>> >> years have become its biggest > liability. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If > it is, then > > >>> Pakistanis have not > > >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in > it for such a long > > >>> time that they have > > >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional > aspects. Trains > > >>> are late but they > > >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, > DJs, theatre > > >>> festivals, melas, and > > >>> >> fashion models than a failed > state can > > >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase > > >>> >> from President Zardari, there > are lots of > > >>> non-state actors like Abdul > > >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide > emergency health services, > > >>> orphanages and > > >>> >> shelters for sick animals. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> It is a deeply religious > country: Every > > >>> half-decent election in this > > >>> >> country has proved otherwise. > Religious parties > > >>> have never won more > > >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. > Last year > > >>> Pakistan witnessed the > > >>> >> largest civil rights movements > in the history of > > >>> this region. It was > > >>> >> spontaneous, secular and > entirely peaceful. But > > >>> since people weren't > > >>> >> raising anti-India or > anti-America slogans, nobody > > >>> outside Pakistan > > >>> >> took much notice. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three > out of four > > >>> provinces in Pakistan - > > >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have > never had any > > >>> popular anti-India > > >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did > impose India as > > >>> enemy-in-chief on > > >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested > in selling > > >>> potatoes to India than > > >>> >> destroying it. There is a new > breed of al-Qaida > > >>> inspired jihadis who > > >>> >> hate a woman walking on the > streets of Karachi as > > >>> much as they hate a > > >>> >> woman driving a car on the > streets of Delhi. In > > >>> fact there is not much > > >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate > America, Denmark, > > >>> China CDs, barbers, > > >>> >> DVDs , television, even > football. Imran Khan > > >>> recently said that these > > >>> >> jihadis will never attack a > cricket match but > > >>> nobody takes him > > >>> >> seriously. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Training camps: There are > militant sanctuaries in > > >>> the tribal areas of > > >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in > Muzaffarabad or > > >>> Muridke, two favourite > > >>> >> targets for Indian journalists, > probably because > > >>> those are the cities > > >>> >> they have ever been allowed to > visit. After all > > >>> how much training do > > >>> >> you need if you are going to > shoot at random > > >>> civilians or blow > > >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? > So if anyone > > >>> thinks a few missiles > > >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will > teach anyone a > > >>> lesson, they should > > >>> >> switch off their TV and try to > locate it on the > > >>> map. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI > does: Both the > > >>> agencies have had a > > >>> >> brilliant record of creating > mayhem in the > > >>> neighbouring countries. > > >>> >> Both have a dismal record when > it comes to > > >>> protecting their own > > >>> >> people. There is a simple reason > that ISI is a > > >>> bigger, more notorious > > >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's > franchise during the > > >>> jihad against the > > >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy > doing jihad against > > >>> those very jihadis. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: > Pakistanis > > >>> visiting India till the > > >>> >> mid-eighties came back very > smug. They told us > > >>> about India's slums, > > >>> >> and that there was nothing to > buy except > > >>> handicrafts and saris. Then > > >>> >> Pakistanis could say with > justifiable pride that > > >>> nobody slept hungry > > >>> >> in their country. But now, not > only do people > > >>> sleep hungry in both the > > >>> >> countries, they also commit > suicide because they > > >>> see nothing but a > > >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A > debt-ridden farmer > > >>> contemplating suicide > > >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who > abandons her > > >>> children in Karachi > > >>> >> because she can't feed them: > this is what we > > >>> have achieved in our > > >>> >> mutual desire to teach each > other a lesson. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> The writer is the author of > 'A Case of > > >>> Exploding Mangoes' > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > > >>> >> > _________________________________________ > > >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and > > >>> the city. > > >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >>> >> To unsubscribe: > > >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> >> List archive: > > >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> _________________________________________ > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject > > >>> header. > > >>> To unsubscribe: > > >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List archive: > > >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 06:43:43 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 01:13:43 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <679489.57841.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40901062224w22d5e55ao7d716b76b0057ace@mail.gmail.com> <679489.57841.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071713o674aa802q62ccb53347f36b26@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rahul, How do you know that what ever I wrote was for some 'benefit'? What was my post if not a way of joining this discussion? You may interpret my post in what so ever a manner in which you deem fit, hence if in your judgment my post comes as patronizing, I say, fair enough!!! If you think that you were trying to understand the grays, then dear Rahul, I most humbly urge you to enlighten us more about the issue. I will certainly respond with my questions and comments. Kind regards Taha On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > Dear Taha, > What is the benefit of throwing platitudes around? Why don't you join the > discussion and help us "to peer more closely and > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks > and whites apart"? > I am sorry but you are being patronizing.What makes you think I was not > already doing that? > Regards > Rahul > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 > myths about pakistan > > To: "Aman Sethi" , "reader-list at sarai.net" < > reader-list at sarai.net> > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 11:54 AM > > Dear all, > > > > I think if we invest some time in thinking about the big > > picture and > > consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can perhaps > > arrive at a better > > understanding of the situation. What we are seeing in India > > and Pakistan as > > suggested by the recent spate of events in both the > > countries and > > interpretations of these events, is a ripening up of the > > tension of the idea > > of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear notion of the > > State in the > > subcontinent, has produced certain dilemmas. These > > dilemmas are translated > > and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily formal in > > their > > orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass we > > witness an ugly > > churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we may invest > > our energies to > > arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take a position > > to suspend any > > judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's point of > > view is invalid or > > that Rahul's position is right on target or Taraprakash > > is way off the mark > > but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we need to peer > > more closely and > > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we > > pull out the blacks > > and whites apart. > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi > > wrote: > > > > > Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of > > mudslinging (or > > > murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. > > Hopefully none of > > > us will ever need bulletproof cars. > > > > > > Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who > > simply says that > > > maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a > > flawed picture > > > of pakistan is somehow a "human rights > > activist". > > > I also find it interesting that a "human rights > > activist" is now > > > suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights > > activist!" "How dare > > > you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - > > when people are > > > dying on the streets!" > > > > > > (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents > > actually kill about > > > 275 people a day in India - > > > http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far > > more than terror > > > does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by > > this loss. I'm > > > worried because in the road accident,even the > > bullet-proof gift of the > > > pakistan government will not help.) > > > > > > Of course one never wants to appear to be a > > pak-apologist - good > > > heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - > > what ever that is - i > > > presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must > > confess a > > > self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive > > rather than > > > regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that > > others follow suit. > > > > > > To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan > > and India are > > > these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing > > the pipe of > > > peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has > > little or nothing to > > > do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even > > the pakistan > > > civil govt is not claiming that. > > > I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to > > actually try and > > > comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why > > hanif's piece is > > > of interest - not so much because of the piece - but > > the reactions to > > > it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his > > toupee/is a news > > > illiterate/" > > > > > > If one accepts that the civil government and the > > military and the ISI > > > have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that > > there is a > > > certain absence of control. > > > > > > At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say > > - enough is > > > enough - but that is unintelligent - and more > > importantly - > > > uninteresting. > > > best > > > a. > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed > > Saleem Shahzad will also > > > be honoured as someone "talking through his > > topee", to quote Yasir from an > > > earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his > > topee" is Pakistan based > > > correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. > > You can read another > > > report by him on > > > > www.bbchindi.com > > > > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi > > elements working against > > > India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the > > water of nexus > > > between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these > > groups are part of the > > > state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will > > give these progressive > > > journalists, the leftist activists and human right > > activists of Pakistan > > > bullet proof cars. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul > > Asthana" < > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > To: "taraprakash" > > ; "Aman Sethi" > > > > gmail.com> > > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and > > ordered houses - re: 10 > > > myths about pakistan > > > > > > > > > > > >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by > > reading Hanif's piece.He > > > could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want > > to paint the full > > > picture. > > > >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his > > first point.There is an > > > awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of > > knowledge viz "Nobody knows > > > the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked > > with everybody? > > > >> Why has he not made the distinction between > > the jihadis that they are > > > killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the > > Alqaeda flavor) and the > > > LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing > > Indians)? Does he not > > > know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities? > > > >> I would comment on his other points > > later.People may find the following > > > article informative. > > > >> > > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html > > > >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan > > > >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad > > > >> > > > >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the > > Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) > > > were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to > > Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - > > > as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian > > security forces during > > > their three-day rampage last week. > > > >> > > > >> What did not go according to plan was the > > capture of 21-year-old Ajmal > > > Amir Kesab, who has given details of the > > militants' plot that was hatched by > > > elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence > > (ISI) and the LET, > > > including the training of the mission's members at > > PNS Iqbal (a naval > > > commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the > > capital Islamabad. > > > >> > > > >> This single arrest has played very badly with > > the separate plans of > > > >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET > > and al-Qaeda. And beyond the > > > escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the > > crucial question now > > > arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's > > pressure to meaningfully clamp > > > down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI > > forward section > > > officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? > > > >> > > > >> "Everybody wishes for a war between > > India and Pakistan," a > > > middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times > > Online on condition of > > > anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for > > the battle to happen, today > > > all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela > > for battle between > > > India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for > > the mujahideen from > > > Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a > > prayer offered when there > > > is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to > > remove all fear and > > > pressure and grant victory.) > > > >> > > > >> The militants obviously want their war, but > > the United States now wants > > > war on the militants, and therein lies a major > > problem. > > > >> > > > >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint > > Chiefs of Staff, is in > > > Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, > > following her visit to > > > India. Asia Times Online contacts say that > > Mullen's overriding message will > > > be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which > > has renamed itself > > > Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the > > Mumbai plot. > > > >> > > > >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI > > forward section head (a major) > > > allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to > > be turned into the > > > Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to > > Mumbai attack December 2.) > > > Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that > > changes were made at the > > > top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in > > which the major was > > > able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without > > the knowledge of his > > > superiors. > > > >> Washington's pressure now puts the > > Pakistani military on the spot, and > > > it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, > > General Ashfaq Parvez > > > Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants. > > > >> > > > >> Militant support > > > >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz > > Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a > > > city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of > > Karachi, on November > > > 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after > > the Mumbai attack on > > > November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, > > the garrison city > > > twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile > > meeting held in the Office > > > of Strategic Organization. > > > >> > > > >> He was told that the Indian air force was on > > high alert and asked what > > > possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed > > assured that the LET > > > would be the first line of defense against the Indian > > navy in the Arabian > > > Sea through its marine operations, and that it would > > escalate its activities > > > in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell > > militants in Pakistan's > > > troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold > > their fire against the > > > Pakistani security forces. > > > >> > > > >> At the same time, because of the threat of > > Indian strikes, all militant > > > training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of > > Pakistan-administered > > > Kashmir, were evacuated. > > > >> > > > >> A top-level ISI official then held a > > background briefing for journalists > > > in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its > > forces along the > > > border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from > > NWFP, where they are > > > fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, > > he said that hardline > > > Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others > > would support Pakistan > > > if India waged war on the country. > > > >> > > > >> Further, the Pakistani security forces > > initiated a dialogue process with > > > the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and > > conditions for pulling > > > out the Pakistani troops. > > > >> > > > >> An almost perfect plan > > > >> The Mumbai attack relied on local > > al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian > > > Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He > > had cased the Jewish > > > community center that was attacked and where several > > people were killed. His > > > information was that it was being used by Israeli > > intelligence - Mossad. > > > >> > > > >> Information on such key targets was passed on > > to the LET, and its > > > well-trained commandos then carried out their > > meticulously planned operation > > > in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. > > > >> > > > >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on > > Indian strategic targets > > > immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's > > arrest prevented this > > > through his revelations of his LET background. > > > >> > > > >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai > > attack was not carried out > > > at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or > > even by the ISI's high > > > command. But there is now proof of the involvement of > > the LET and of some > > > junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US > > will apply pressure on > > > Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. > > > >> > > > >> But there is a problem. > > > >> > > > >> Militants tighten their grip > > > >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of > > control, with militancy > > > spilling over from the tribal areas into this > > province. > > > >> > > > >> In the past four days, militants have > > abducted a record 60 people from > > > the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired > > army officers and > > > members or relatives of the Awami National Party > > (ANP), which rules in the > > > province. The Taliban have butchered many people with > > affiliations to the > > > ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. > > > >> > > > >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization > > supply convoys passing > > > through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have > > come under increasing > > > attacks. In the most recent incident, militants > > destroyed 40 containers in > > > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. > > > >> > > > >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa > > (LET), with its > > > well-defined vertical command structure under the > > single command of Saeed, > > > could commit its several thousand members, virtually a > > para-military force, > > > to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked > > Pakistani militants. > > > >> > > > >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated > > group from doing this is its > > > under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If > > the authorities start > > > to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all > > hell could break > > > loose inside the country. > > > >> > > > >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, > > there could be a severe > > > reaction from the more hardline elements in that > > organization, as well as in > > > the military. > > > >> > > > >> To date, the authorities have not given any > > indication of their plans. > > > If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and > > Rice, it is most likely > > > that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the > > Swat Valley and > > > Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the > > Taliban-led insurgency n > > > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch > > further attacks on > > > India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia > > region. > > > >> > > > >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the > > LET is equally unappealing, > > > and potentially as disastrous. > > > >> > > > >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times > > Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can > > > be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> From: Aman Sethi > > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes > > and ordered houses - re: 10 > > > myths about pakistan > > > >>> To: "taraprakash" > > > > > >>> Cc: "sarai list" > > > > > >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 > > AM > > > >>> Dear Taraprakash, > > > >>> I have never denied the presence of > > militant groups in > > > >>> pakistan. That > > > >>> there are "links" between armed > > groups and power > > > >>> centres in pakistan > > > >>> is not something i am contesting - I > > think the interesting > > > >>> question is > > > >>> the nature of these "links" and > > the nature of the > > > >>> state. > > > >>> > > > >>> If I was to say the "Indian > > state" has > > > >>> connections with terror > > > >>> organisations in kashmir - what would > > that mean? One would > > > >>> then ask - > > > >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say > > we say the IB - or > > > >>> in the > > > >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once > > asks - okay, so does > > > >>> the > > > >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact > > with a militant > > > >>> commander? > > > >>> Probably not - its probably a connection > > between mid-tier > > > >>> people on > > > >>> both sides - from here on we start > > entering reasonably > > > >>> murky waters > > > >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb > > its depths (sorry > > > >>> for the > > > >>> mixed metaphor) ... > > > >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of > > the complications > > > >>> in drawing > > > >>> straight lines between dots -that is all > > I am saying. > > > >>> best > > > >>> a. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, > > taraprakash > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like > > to clarify what I > > > >>> said in an earlier > > > >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of > > the doubt to the > > > >>> batsman as long as > > > >>> > there were doubts. I think it is > > baseless and > > > >>> irresponsible to give a state > > > >>> > clean chit just because it sounds > > progressive and > > > >>> broad minded to do so. I > > > >>> > wouldn't object if you were to > > say that even India > > > >>> has links with Jihadi > > > >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India > > uses to > > > >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I > > > >>> > will definitely not agree with the > > claim that > > > >>> Pakistani state has no nexus > > > >>> > with jihadi elements which have > > unfurling Pakistani > > > >>> flag on Red fort as > > > >>> > their stated aim. > > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > "Aman > > > >>> Sethi" > > > >>> > To: "sarai list" > > > >>> > > > >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 > > PM > > > >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes > > and ordered > > > >>> houses - re: 10 myths about > > > >>> > pakistan > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, > > (who I thank for > > > >>> posting this text) and > > > >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their > > thoughts, > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> This is in response to a > > conversation on the > > > >>> authenticity/ > > > >>> >> "insightfullness" of > > Mohammed > > > >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the > > Times > > > >>> >> of India in the Times of India > > -and I have > > > >>> appended at the end of this > > > >>> >> mail. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> I think the reason I find > > Mohammed Hanif's > > > >>> text (appended below) > > > >>> >> interesting is primarily because > > often when > > > >>> reading/learning about > > > >>> >> another place - especially > > through the eyes of > > > >>> correspondents - it is > > > >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives > > there at all. For > > > >>> weeks I have been > > > >>> >> having conversation with friends > > about how > > > >>> pakistan appears to be > > > >>> >> teetering on a brink of some > > sort - without really > > > >>> knowing that that > > > >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is > > - is it in the > > > >>> chasm already - what > > > >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm > > - or is there no > > > >>> brink, no teetering, > > > >>> >> no nothing except to the grind > > of the everyday. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> But fortunately, i have also > > been re-reading > > > >>> Slaughterhouse Five - > > > >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the > > dresden > > > >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after > > > >>> >> describing the devastation of > > dresden as a > > > >>> moonscape utterly ravaged > > > >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> "Billy's story ended > > very curiously in a > > > >>> suburb untouched by fire and > > > >>> >> explosions. The guards and > > americans came at > > > >>> nightfall to an innn > > > >>> >> which was open for business. > > There was > > > >>> candlelight. There were fires > > > >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. > > There were empty > > > >>> tables ad chairs > > > >>> >> waiting for anyone who might > > come, and empty beds > > > >>> with covers turned > > > >>> >> down upstairs." > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> On reading texts like > > Slaughterhouse Five - or > > > >>> Sebal's incredible > > > >>> >> Natural History of Destruction > > there is the > > > >>> tendency to abstract trite > > > >>> >> observations like "ordinary > > people continue > > > >>> with their normal lives > > > >>> >> even as the world collapses > > around them." I > > > >>> would argue that what > > > >>> >> makes these texts interesting > > -and relevant - is > > > >>> that they remind us > > > >>> >> that this IS normal life. This > > horror, this > > > >>> destruction, this > > > >>> >> banality, this IS normal life. > > And Mohammed > > > >>> Hanif's text - (without > > > >>> >> placing it in the same league) - > > again gives us a > > > >>> snapshot into the > > > >>> >> normalcy of normal life in > > pakistan. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Reading the news on the series > > of bomb blasts in > > > >>> Delhi, Surat, > > > >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through > > the fall of 2008 - > > > >>> one is tempted to > > > >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, > > the horror of > > > >>> implosion and the > > > >>> >> embarrassment of "state > > failure" that > > > >>> Indians so happily foist upon > > > >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as > > those living in > > > >>> India will readily > > > >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt > > seem so - no matter > > > >>> what the disaster, we > > > >>> >> are firm in our belief that > > -like the batsman in > > > >>> cricket - the > > > >>> >> endurance of the state should be > > given the benefit > > > >>> of doubt. Perhaps > > > >>> >> we could accord others in the > > neighbourhood the > > > >>> same privileges. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> The story of the americans and > > the innkeepers ends > > > >>> something like this : > > > >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said > > that the americans > > > >>> could sleep in his stable > > > >>> >> that night, and he gave them > > soup and ersatz > > > >>> coffee and a little beer. > > > >>> >> Then he came out to the stable > > to listen to them > > > >>> bedding down in the > > > >>> >> straw. > > > >>> >> "Good Night > > Americans," he said in > > > >>> German, "Sleep well." > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> best > > > >>> >> a. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan > > > >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST, > > > >>> >> Mohammed Hanif > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading > > about it in the > > > >>> Indian press can > > > >>> >> sometimes be quite a > > disorienting experience: one > > > >>> wonders what place > > > >>> >> on earth they're talking > > about? I wouldn't > > > >>> be surprised if an Indian > > > >>> >> reader going through Pakistani > > papers has asked > > > >>> the same question in > > > >>> >> recent days. Here are some > > common assumptions > > > >>> about Pakistan and its > > > >>> >> citizens that I have come across > > in the Indian > > > >>> media... > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: > > Or Pakistan's > > > >>> government controls the > > > >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army > > controls the jihadis. Or > > > >>> ISI controls the > > > >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements > > from the ISI > > > >>> control the Jihadis. > > > >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but > > increasingly > > > >>> it's the tail that wags > > > >>> >> the dog. We must remember that > > the ISI-Jihadi > > > >>> alliance was a marriage > > > >>> >> of convenience, which has broken > > down irrevocably. > > > >>> Pakistan army has > > > >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands > > of these jihadis > > > >>> than it ever did > > > >>> >> fighting India. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Musharraf was in control, > > Zardari is not: > > > >>> Let's not forget that > > > >>> >> General Musharraf seized power > > after he was fired > > > >>> from his job as the > > > >>> >> army chief by an elected prime > > minister. Musharraf > > > >>> first appeased > > > >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and > > then appeased them > > > >>> again. The country > > > >>> >> he left behind has become a very > > dangerous place, > > > >>> above all for its > > > >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent > > hankering in > > > >>> sections of the Indian > > > >>> >> middle class for a strongman. > > Give Manmohan Singh > > > >>> a military uniform, > > > >>> >> put all the armed forces under > > his direct command, > > > >>> make his word the > > > >>> >> law of the land, and he too will > > go around > > > >>> thumping his chest saying > > > >>> >> that it's his destiny to > > save India from > > > >>> Indians . Zardari will never > > > >>> >> have the kind of control that > > Musharraf had. But > > > >>> Pakistanis do not > > > >>> >> want another Musharraf. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a > > small country, > > > >>> Pakistan is very > > > >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but > > politically as > > > >>> well. General > > > >>> >> Musharraf's government > > bombed Pashtuns in the > > > >>> north for being > > > >>> >> Islamists and close to the > > Taliban and at the same > > > >>> time it bombed > > > >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT > > being Islamists and > > > >>> for subscribing to > > > >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, > > anti Taliban ethos. > > > >>> You have probably > > > >>> >> heard the joke about other > > countries having armies > > > >>> but Pakistan's army > > > >>> >> having a country. Nobody in > > Pakistan finds it > > > >>> funny. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: > > Pakistan's > > > >>> nuclear programme is under a > > > >>> >> sophisticated command and > > control system, no more > > > >>> under threat than > > > >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear > > assets are > > > >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish > > > >>> >> extremists. For a long time > > Pakistan's > > > >>> security establishment's other > > > >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi > > organisations, which in > > > >>> the last couple of > > > >>> >> years have become its biggest > > liability. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If > > it is, then > > > >>> Pakistanis have not > > > >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in > > it for such a long > > > >>> time that they have > > > >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional > > aspects. Trains > > > >>> are late but they > > > >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, > > DJs, theatre > > > >>> festivals, melas, and > > > >>> >> fashion models than a failed > > state can > > > >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase > > > >>> >> from President Zardari, there > > are lots of > > > >>> non-state actors like Abdul > > > >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide > > emergency health services, > > > >>> orphanages and > > > >>> >> shelters for sick animals. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> It is a deeply religious > > country: Every > > > >>> half-decent election in this > > > >>> >> country has proved otherwise. > > Religious parties > > > >>> have never won more > > > >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. > > Last year > > > >>> Pakistan witnessed the > > > >>> >> largest civil rights movements > > in the history of > > > >>> this region. It was > > > >>> >> spontaneous, secular and > > entirely peaceful. But > > > >>> since people weren't > > > >>> >> raising anti-India or > > anti-America slogans, nobody > > > >>> outside Pakistan > > > >>> >> took much notice. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three > > out of four > > > >>> provinces in Pakistan - > > > >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have > > never had any > > > >>> popular anti-India > > > >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did > > impose India as > > > >>> enemy-in-chief on > > > >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested > > in selling > > > >>> potatoes to India than > > > >>> >> destroying it. There is a new > > breed of al-Qaida > > > >>> inspired jihadis who > > > >>> >> hate a woman walking on the > > streets of Karachi as > > > >>> much as they hate a > > > >>> >> woman driving a car on the > > streets of Delhi. In > > > >>> fact there is not much > > > >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate > > America, Denmark, > > > >>> China CDs, barbers, > > > >>> >> DVDs , television, even > > football. Imran Khan > > > >>> recently said that these > > > >>> >> jihadis will never attack a > > cricket match but > > > >>> nobody takes him > > > >>> >> seriously. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Training camps: There are > > militant sanctuaries in > > > >>> the tribal areas of > > > >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in > > Muzaffarabad or > > > >>> Muridke, two favourite > > > >>> >> targets for Indian journalists, > > probably because > > > >>> those are the cities > > > >>> >> they have ever been allowed to > > visit. After all > > > >>> how much training do > > > >>> >> you need if you are going to > > shoot at random > > > >>> civilians or blow > > > >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? > > So if anyone > > > >>> thinks a few missiles > > > >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will > > teach anyone a > > > >>> lesson, they should > > > >>> >> switch off their TV and try to > > locate it on the > > > >>> map. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI > > does: Both the > > > >>> agencies have had a > > > >>> >> brilliant record of creating > > mayhem in the > > > >>> neighbouring countries. > > > >>> >> Both have a dismal record when > > it comes to > > > >>> protecting their own > > > >>> >> people. There is a simple reason > > that ISI is a > > > >>> bigger, more notorious > > > >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's > > franchise during the > > > >>> jihad against the > > > >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy > > doing jihad against > > > >>> those very jihadis. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: > > Pakistanis > > > >>> visiting India till the > > > >>> >> mid-eighties came back very > > smug. They told us > > > >>> about India's slums, > > > >>> >> and that there was nothing to > > buy except > > > >>> handicrafts and saris. Then > > > >>> >> Pakistanis could say with > > justifiable pride that > > > >>> nobody slept hungry > > > >>> >> in their country. But now, not > > only do people > > > >>> sleep hungry in both the > > > >>> >> countries, they also commit > > suicide because they > > > >>> see nothing but a > > > >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A > > debt-ridden farmer > > > >>> contemplating suicide > > > >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who > > abandons her > > > >>> children in Karachi > > > >>> >> because she can't feed them: > > this is what we > > > >>> have achieved in our > > > >>> >> mutual desire to teach each > > other a lesson. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> The writer is the author of > > 'A Case of > > > >>> Exploding Mangoes' > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > > > >>> >> > > _________________________________________ > > > >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion > > list on media and > > > >>> the city. > > > >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. > > > >>> >> To unsubscribe: > > > >>> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >>> >> List archive: > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> _________________________________________ > > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the city. > > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject > > > >>> header. > > > >>> To unsubscribe: > > > >>> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >>> List archive: > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 09:12:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:42:50 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-44 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071942h6f5b26fdq70d449942d8a2b25@mail.gmail.com> http://www.arabnews.com/?page=11§ion=0&article=109860&d=17&m=5&y=2008 Arab News The Middle East's Leading English Language Daily Tuesday 13 May 2008 (07 Jumada al-Ula 1429) *Identity Cards Finally Issued* *India's Central Government announced that smart cards have finally been issued to citizens aged 18 years and above in the Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) pilot project. The pilot project covers about 30 million citizens in twelve States and one Union Territory — Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Delhi, Goa, Gujarat, Jammu and Kashmir, Rajasthan, Tripura, Uttar Pradesh, Uttaranchal, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and Pudducherry. The production and distribution of the identity cards in the pilot project was to be completed by July, 2007, but due to sourcing and technical problems the project wasn't completed until March 2008. The MNIC project hopes to complement the provision of a unique National Identity Number (NIN) to each person in the National Population Register (NPR). At least Rs. 44.360 million was spent on the pilot project and a decision is yet to be made on the implementation of the scheme nationwide.* *However, one ID that will be issued nationwide is a new electronic press accreditation card from the Press Information Bureau (PIB). This card will replace the older PIB Press Card and be valid for two years, unlike the old cards which were renewed annually. The electronic card has security features including the electronic signatures of PIB and Home Ministry officials and is tamper proof. The card will be color coded in four categories — yellow for correspondents, pink for cameramen, white for technicians and blue for editors.* From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 09:14:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:44:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-45 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071944rc908acp6a8ec5ad13447ac7@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2006/12/05/stories/2006120505470300.htm The Hindu Online edition of India's National Newspaper Tuesday, Dec 05, 2006 *Pilot project to issue identity cards apace * C. Jaishnakar * Verification under way at Thiruvadanai taluk The distribution of Multipurpose National Identity Card will begin on April 1, 2007 * RAMANATHAPURAM: A pilot project to issue Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) to Indian citizens is under way at Thiruvadanai taluk of the district. It is the only taluk in the State and one among 20 in the country where the project has been taken up under the direction of Union Home Ministry. All citizens, who have attained the age of 18 and living in the select taluks will be given digitally printed identity card. The project, started three years ago, has reached the final phase — verification of information provided by the people living in seven firkas of the taluk. As per the enumeration, the population of the taluk is 2,18,318 (above 18 years). As per the requirements of the Home Ministry, the residents should give at least one proof, particularly birth certificate. Those who do not have a birth certificate should produce a document such as land record as proof of domicile. So far, documents of 1,81,451 persons have been verified. Out of which 1,65,280 persons have been identified as citizens and 1,811 persons as residents. Information about 36,000 persons is yet to be verified. Pat for State Chandrakant Kamble, Director, Census, who is here to expedite the process, has expressed happiness over the progress of the project. Kamble, who is here to speed up the process, has expressed satisfaction over the progress of the project. "It is, no doubt, a highly difficult task. This kind of exercise has never been taken up in the country. But, the State has earned a good name from the Home Ministry for preparing a hundred per cent accurate list, at a recent review meeting in New Delhi," he said. The distribution of MNIC would begin on April 1, 2007. Bharath Electronics Ltd, Indian Telephone Industry Ltd and Electronic Corporation of India Ltd had been chosen to print cards. This would be taken up in Chennai in a high security zone. Secrecy would be maintained during the process of printing cards for all pilot project taluks of South India, he said. K.S. Muthuswaamy, Collector, said no foreigner, including Sri Lankan refugees and repatriates, if they lived in Thiruvadanai, would be given MNIC. Since, the pilot area was a coastal area and close to Sri Lanka, officials were asked to crosscheck the documents, he said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 09:16:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:46:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-46 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071946m6bcf1927yefb13078857aa1cd@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-2688124,prtpage-1.cms Not citizens, it's the state that needs an ID card 10 Jan 2008, 0129 hrs IST, Jug Suraiya A fundamental aspect of the relationship between you, as an Indian citizen, and the Indian state may soon radically change: so far, you are in the eyes of the state constitutionally presumed innocent unless proved otherwise. This presumption of innocence, not in a court of law but in everyday affairs, will no longer be valid if Indian citizens are required to carry, and produce on demand, identity cards issued by the state. Though the ID card proposal mooted by Delhi's Lieutenant-Governor seems to have been dropped after a flurry of protests from various politicians, jurists and citizens' groups, a Multi-Purpose National Identity Card project (first mooted by L K Advani during the tenure of the NDA government) is still in the pipeline. The avowed purpose of ID cards is to strengthen security. But in effect, as many have pointed out, mandatory ID cards for citizens merely increase the risks of police and other official harassment of citizens who, in order to demonstrate their bona fides have to produce the required documentation, a failure to do so being tantamount to a determination of guilt. In practical terms, the introduction of a generic ID card (as distinct from use-specific cards such as the Voter ID card, the PAN card, the ration card, etc) would greatly increase the scope for police corruption and intimidation, hazards which are already entrenched in our day-to-day lives. However, it is in the constitutional relationship between the citizen and the state that the more insidious and the greater damage would be done. Unlike the French judicial system where the accused is required to prove his innocence, in Indian law (as derived from British jurisprudence) the presumption of innocence is a fundamental right of the citizen. It is a right, however, that is often grossly violated in countless cases of wrongful detention, the use of third-degree methods to obtain a 'confession', lethal 'encounters', and other instances of the state's misuse of its powers. And the powers of the Indian state - in theory if not in practice - are already only too formidable when viewed from the perspective of the common citizen who has little or no protection from repressive laws which often make a cruel mockery of our democratic and supposedly free society. In the sacred name of national security, the common citizen - whose security and safety should be the paramount concern of the nation state - has been subjected to the often vicious implementation of laws such as TADA, and its subsequent avatars of POTO and POTA, cute-sounding acronyms that disguised an official sanctioning of state brutality. Though TADA and its successors have been scrapped, the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958 continues to provide protective camouflage to state terror perpetrated against individuals in the name of national security. Far from strengthening national security, the misuse of the state's powers has deeply undermined the foundation of the polity, as witnessed by the frightening fact that some 160 districts of the country, comprising over 180 million people are under 'Naxal' control. So much for 'national security'. Using the mantra of national security, the state has progressively encroached on individual liberties: from phone-tapping to cyber-snooping, from police barriers that impose daily stress on already harried commuters to the 'bandobast' for 'VVIP movement' which totally dislocates the normal functioning of city life. At the end of his tether, thanks to official zulm , it is not the common citizen who ought to be asked to prove his credentials by an extra ID card. Rather, it is officialdom that needs to produce a clean chit certifying that, despite evidence to the contrary, ours is not in fact a police state but still a democracy. Or is it? Is the state innocent, or guilty? And how is it going to prove it, either way? (Readers are invited to suggest issues of general interest - political, social, cultural or economic - for discussion in this column. E-mail the topic of your choice to secondopinion at timesgroup.com. Or write to Second Opinion, The Times of India, 7, Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg, New Delhi-110103.) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 09:18:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:48:44 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-47 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071948t36ca2366v1126a9104c16d632@mail.gmail.com> http://newsagency.thecheers.org/South-Asia/news_3840_UP-issues-smart-cards-to-check-infiltration-in-border-areas.html UP issues 'smart cards' to check infiltration in border areas 2007-12-16 09:31:01 *Nautanwa (UP), Dec 16 : Uttar Pradesh government is issuing microchip based multipurpose "smart cards", which will double up as identification cards, in the border areas, and help to check illegal immigration. *Pradesh government is issuing microchip based multipurpose "smart cards", which will double up as identification cards, in the border areas, and help to check illegal immigration. Launched in 2003 by the Union Home Ministry, the 'smart cards' or Multipurpose National Identification Cards (MNIC) project was initiated as a pilot project in 20 border districts. The state authorities have started issuing smart cards in Nautanwa town of the state's Gorakhpur District. Located on India-Nepal border, Nautanwa with a population of 450,000 has a sizable strength of Nepali origin people. Nautanwa is also considered significant from the security point of view, due to increased Maoist activity in Nepal. The residents in border areas said that the MNIC helps in authenticating their identity. "This card acts as an identity and residential proof. It is very useful," said Ram Prasad Singh, a MNIC holder. The card resembling a debit or ATM card is being issued only to people residing for more than 15 years in the town. The card carries a photograph of the person along with their fingerprint mark. An embedded electronic chip would hold all vital information of the bearer. Residents would also be provided with a unique 'Individual Code Number'. The 'smart card' would also help residents avail public services like healthcare, education and banking. The cards are being delivered at the doorsteps of the residents by the postal department. "The cards are being produced in Kolkata production centre and are being distributed through the Indian Postal Services. The cards are delivered through speed post to the respective post offices, from where the postman delivers the card at the doorsteps of the residents," said Pratap Singh, Assistant Director, Pilot Project, MNIC, Maharajganj. A month after the MNIC pilot project was launched in November 2003, theitizenship Act of 1955 was amended to provide for compulsory registration of all citizens and issue of a national identity card. The pilot project was launched in border-states such as Jammu and Kashmir, Gujarat, Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Assam, West Bengal and Tripura, besides coastal states like Tamil Nadu and Goa, and Delhi. (ANI) (c) 2007 ANI From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 09:20:07 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:50:07 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-48 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901071950v7b1e3b2exae3b2475b0d914c3@mail.gmail.com> *http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070527/main3.htm* *The Tribune Online Edition * *You just got your national identity* *Sunday, May 27, 2007, Chandigarh, India* New Delhi, May 26 In a move to effectively address the emerging security concerns, the Centre today launched the multi-purpose "National Identity Card" at Narela in the capital city as part of a pilot project which may eventually be extended throughout the country by issuing a chip-based smart ID cards to all citizens. Registrar-general of India Devender Kumar Sikri presented the first card to a woman resident of Narela in north-west Delhi. Home Ministry sources said the remaining 2.4 million citizens, who are covered under the Rs 44.36 crore pilot project in selected sub-districts of 12 states and one Union Territory, would receive the card by post before July this year. "The card will give the citizen a 16-digit ID number and will be delivered by Indian Post in a tamper-proof customised cover that is both, waterproof and able to sustain extreme temperatures," an official of the registrar-general of India said. Costing Rs 60 each, the ID card would carry basic details across several parameters including educational qualification, place of birth, photograph and fingerprints of the holder. A few details would be visible on the card. The remaining information would be stored in the 16-kb chip on the card that can be read only with a reader. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 10:11:38 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:11:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <393476.57465.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70901070456j28433381u9d9ea9b3af526e72@mail.gmail.com> <393476.57465.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901072041o5f2ccb1bp15fbdeb6447c7054@mail.gmail.com> Dear Yousaf, I would like to believe the temple priest were wrong or my information about Kamakhya Temple , one of Shakti Peeth, is wrong if woud provide me with some information in which explains how Kamakhya Temple was given a Jagir. Till the time you do that , let us believe the priests who have been there since centuries. Regards Pawan On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Yousuf wrote: > Dear Pawan > Its interesting that you have accepted the history of the temple as told by > the priest or the locals, but you find my references (and my forwarded > essay) as "not the right sources". We all know what sort of twisted and > amusing history is told by the tour-guides and locals around some of these > historical monuments. Did you read some of those write-ups I referred to? > Would you elaborate why you find them unacceptable? And what kind of history > sources are acceptable to you. > > In any case, I am not saying that any information one finds on the internet > or for that matter from the locals is trustworthy or not. There is no such > thing as an absolute truth in history. All facts are interpretations. But > those based on more concrete evidences should certainly have more weight. > So, you may have heard only about Aurangzeb's hate for Hindu temples and > idol-worship (which I'm not denying) because that's the interpretation you > have been given by our education system. But that does not mean that that is > the final truth. > > The historians are forever ready to improve/update their versions according > to the newer facts and evidences available. For example, we have all heard > the story about how Aurangzeb hated music, and when some musicians tried to > protest his ban of music by taking a mock funeral procession of music, > Aurangzeb is supposed to have said "good, bury the music in such a deep > grave that it should not rise again". Now, very recently, a UK historian has > proved that this story is bogus and was wrongly attributed by later > (European) historians. Recent research has also shown that if there is any > era in India's history when the maximum amount of books (about 17) on the > theory of Indian music were written (in Persian), it was during Aurangzeb's > rule. But by this, I am not trying to portray only a positive picture of > Aurangzeb. What I am hinting at is that because there are no final truths in > history, we cannot and should not make any judgment or evaluation for > today's > reality based on what we read in history. > > Yousuf > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > From: Pawan Durani > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: "sarai list" > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 6:26 PM > > Thank you Yousaf, > > > > I have been to kamakhya temple and since I had heard the > > history of the > > temple from few locals and the priests [ Almost all are > > from UP settled > > since centuries ] , i was shocked to read an article where > > it was referred > > that Kamakhya temple was given as a Jagir. > > > > No doubt there are some writers like Ms Chakraborty , which > > are found almost > > everywhere in India , who try to alter the history by > > repeated distortion of > > facts. > > > > I am surprised that Aurangzeb gave land to temples , as his > > hate for idol > > worship needs no introduction . The websites you have > > referred may not be > > taken as a right source. > > > > Thank you once again. > > > > Regards > > > > Pawan Durani > > Mumbai, India > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Pawan > > > I didn't find any specific detail about the > > Kamakhya temple, but there are > > > many references about Mughal rulers (such as > > Aurangzeb) granting land for > > > temples. You may look at some of these refs: > > > > > > http://www.iosworld.org/ebk7.htm > > > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15102002/1510200212.htm > > > > > http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/06/03/news0405.htm > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Pawan Durani > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history > > for communal harmony > > > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:19 PM > > > > Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is > > a news to me > > > > . Can someone > > > > please share more on this , if it is true. > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Understanding medieval history for communal > > harmony > > > > > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > Rulers' history is always a history of > > conflict. > > > > The conflicts between > > > > > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period > > cannot be > > > > seen as Hindu-Muslim > > > > > religious conflict, as these were primarily > > power > > > > conflicts. It was an > > > > > administrative necessity. > > > > > > > > > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver > > communal > > > > harmony in India. This is > > > > > because most of the history that we, as lay > > men, know > > > > is nothing but > > > > > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is > > that we try > > > > to understand history > > > > > through religion. The entire history of the > > medieval > > > > era i.e. the Muslim > > > > > period, which is crucial in understanding > > the question > > > > of Hindu Muslim > > > > > unity, is basically rulers' history. And > > > > rulers' history is always a history > > > > > of conflict. > > > > > > > > > > For instance, we take the example of the > > battles > > > > between Shivaji and > > > > > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud > > Ghazni's > > > > destruction of the Somnath > > > > > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of > > Hindu temples > > > > etc to forment communal > > > > > disharmony. But we forget that these > > conflicts were > > > > conflicts to acquire > > > > > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or > > commander-in > > > > –chief was a Muslim. > > > > > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a > > Rajput. It is > > > > true that Aurangazeb > > > > > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what > > we do not > > > > know is that many of > > > > > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at > > Guwahati) > > > > were given as Jagir. In > > > > > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat > > destroyed > > > > many Jain temples. > > > > > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of > > Ghazni > > > > conquered Multan and > > > > > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of > > worship as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law > > of > > > > succession. So war of > > > > > succession was a common feature during this > > period. > > > > Aurangazeb killed all > > > > > his brothers and even imprisoned his father > > in order > > > > to ascend to the throne > > > > > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax > > on > > > > non-Muslims, recent > > > > > researches have shown that the largest > > number of Hindu > > > > Mansabdars existed > > > > > during Aurangazeb's reign. > > > > > > > > > > If we closely analyse the history of the > > sultanate > > > > period, we find that > > > > > kings of this period always tried to > > restrict Ulema > > > > intervention in > > > > > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin > > Khilji, > > > > Muhammad bin Tughlaq > > > > > clearly refused to take any advice from the > > Ulema (the > > > > Islamic scholars), > > > > > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when > > Indira > > > > Gandhi sent troops to > > > > > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, > > just to > > > > send the message that > > > > > this move was not because of disrespect for > > any > > > > religion. It was an > > > > > administrative necessity. Similarly, the > > conflicts > > > > between Hindu and Muslim > > > > > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim > > religious > > > > conflict, as these were > > > > > primarily power conflicts. > > > > > > > > > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on > > the > > > > people's history that is the > > > > > composite culture that developed in the > > medieval > > > > period. There are numerous > > > > > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like > > Sant > > > > Kabir, Guru Nanak who > > > > > tried to build communal harmony. > > > > > > > > > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and > > musician who > > > > had a deep love for the > > > > > Brij language .It was he who introduced the > > sitar and > > > > the quawali. It may be > > > > > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali > > have been > > > > taken from > > > > > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was > > a great > > > > Sanskrit scholar who > > > > > translated the Upanishad in Persian and > > titled it > > > > 'The Great Mystery'. In > > > > > this book, he said, if after Koran, we > > imagine the > > > > concept of one God, it is > > > > > the Upanishad. > > > > > > > > > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh > > library. > > > > One will be shocked to > > > > > find that on the top right hand corner of > > the > > > > manuscript is written 'Sri > > > > > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord > > Ganesha. And > > > > the left hand corner > > > > > contains an invocation to Allah. Such > > bonding needs to > > > > be stressed in the > > > > > textbooks. > > > > > > > > > > Communal harmony is necessary for our > > survival. Once > > > > Mahesh Bhatt, the > > > > > eminent film director asked a war veteran at > > Vietnam, > > > > 'What was philosophy > > > > > with which you fight war?' He answered, > > 'One > > > > philosophy, save your brother.' > > > > > > > > > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all > > drown > > > > together or we do not. > > > > > We always try to analyse others and we see > > other's > > > > faults. We do not analyse > > > > > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists > > accused in the > > > > Mumbai attack, was a > > > > > Pakistani but the person who opened the door > > was a > > > > Hindusthani. Therefore, > > > > > the ideology of secularism needs to be > > reiterated time > > > > and again. We have to > > > > > assert the secular fabric of our nation. > > Without this > > > > we have no future. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 10:28:49 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:58:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901072041o5f2ccb1bp15fbdeb6447c7054@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <655668.96843.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Pawan I am not asking you to stop believing in what the priests told you. That is their version of history. I am simply saying that let us not make evaluations about today's reality based on what we read in history. I will surely share with you any information I find about Kamakhya temple. Thanks Yousuf --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Pawan Durani wrote: From: Pawan Durani Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:11 AM Dear Yousaf,   I would like to believe the temple priest were wrong or my information about Kamakhya Temple , one of Shakti Peeth, is wrong if woud provide me with some information in which explains how Kamakhya Temple was given a Jagir.   Till the time you do that , let us believe the priests who have been there since centuries.   Regards   Pawan On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Yousuf wrote: Dear Pawan Its interesting that you have accepted the history of the temple as told by the priest or the locals, but you find my references (and my forwarded essay) as "not the right sources". We all know what sort of twisted and amusing history is told by the tour-guides and locals around some of these historical monuments. Did you read some of those write-ups I referred to? Would you elaborate why you find them unacceptable? And what kind of history sources are acceptable to you. In any case, I am not saying that any information one finds on the internet or for that matter from the locals is trustworthy or not. There is no such thing as an absolute truth in history. All facts are interpretations. But those based on more concrete evidences should certainly have more weight. So, you may have heard only about Aurangzeb's hate for Hindu temples and idol-worship (which I'm not denying) because that's the interpretation you have been given by our education system. But that does not mean that that is the final truth. The historians are forever ready to improve/update their versions according to the newer facts and evidences available. For example, we have all heard the story about how Aurangzeb hated music, and when some musicians tried to protest his ban of music by taking a mock funeral procession of music, Aurangzeb is supposed to have said "good, bury the music in such a deep grave that it should not rise again". Now, very recently, a UK historian has proved that this story is bogus and was wrongly attributed by later (European) historians. Recent research has also shown that if there is any era in India's history when the maximum amount of books (about 17) on the theory of Indian music were written (in Persian), it was during Aurangzeb's rule. But by this, I am not trying to portray only a positive picture of Aurangzeb. What I am hinting at is that because there are no final truths in history, we cannot and should not make any judgment or evaluation for today's  reality based on what we read in history. Yousuf --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 6:26 PM > Thank you Yousaf, > > I have been to kamakhya temple and since I had heard the > history of the > temple from few locals and the priests [ Almost all are > from UP settled > since centuries ] , i was shocked to read an article where > it was referred > that Kamakhya temple was given as a Jagir. > > No doubt there are some writers like Ms Chakraborty , which > are found almost > everywhere in India , who try to alter the history by > repeated distortion of > facts. > > I am surprised that Aurangzeb gave land to temples , as his > hate for idol > worship needs no introduction . The websites you have > referred may not be > taken as a right source. > > Thank you once again. > > Regards > > Pawan Durani > Mumbai, India > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Yousuf > wrote: > > > Dear Pawan > > I didn't find any specific detail about the > Kamakhya temple, but there are > > many references about Mughal rulers (such as > Aurangzeb) granting land for > > temples. You may look at some of these refs: > > > > http://www.iosworld.org/ebk7.htm > > > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15102002/1510200212.htm > > > http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/06/03/news0405.htm > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani > wrote: > > > > > From: Pawan Durani > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history > for communal harmony > > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:19 PM > >  > Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is > a news to me > > > . Can someone > > > please share more on this , if it is true. > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Understanding medieval history for communal > harmony > > > > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty > > > > > > > > Rulers' history is always a history of > conflict. > > > The conflicts between > > > > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period > cannot be > > > seen as Hindu-Muslim > > > > religious conflict, as these were primarily > power > > > conflicts. It was an > > > > administrative necessity. > > > > > > > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver > communal > > > harmony in India. This is > > > > because most of the history that we, as lay > men, know > > > is nothing but > > > > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is > that we try > > > to understand history > > > > through religion. The entire history of the > medieval > > > era i.e. the Muslim > > > > period, which is crucial in understanding > the question > > > of Hindu Muslim > > > > unity, is basically rulers' history. And > > > rulers' history is always a history > > > > of conflict. > > > > > > > > For instance, we take the example of the > battles > > > between Shivaji and > > > > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud > Ghazni's > > > destruction of the Somnath > > > > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of > Hindu temples > > > etc to forment communal > > > > disharmony. But we forget that these > conflicts were > > > conflicts to acquire > > > > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or > commander-in > > > –chief was a Muslim. > > > > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a > Rajput. It is > > > true that Aurangazeb > > > > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what > we do not > > > know is that many of > > > > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at > Guwahati) > > > were given as Jagir. In > > > > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat > destroyed > > > many Jain temples. > > > > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of > Ghazni > > > conquered Multan and > > > > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of > worship as > > > well. > > > > > > > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law > of > > > succession. So war of > > > > succession was a common feature during this > period. > > > Aurangazeb killed all > > > > his brothers and even imprisoned his father > in order > > > to ascend to the throne > > > > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax > on > > > non-Muslims, recent > > > > researches have shown that the largest > number of Hindu > > > Mansabdars existed > > > > during Aurangazeb's reign. > > > > > > > > If we closely analyse the history of the > sultanate > > > period, we find that > > > > kings of this period always tried to > restrict Ulema > > > intervention in > > > > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin > Khilji, > > > Muhammad bin Tughlaq > > > > clearly refused to take any advice from the > Ulema (the > > > Islamic scholars), > > > > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when > Indira > > > Gandhi sent troops to > > > > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, > just to > > > send the message that > > > > this move was not because of disrespect for > any > > > religion. It was an > > > > administrative necessity. Similarly, the > conflicts > > > between Hindu and Muslim > > > > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim > religious > > > conflict, as these were > > > > primarily power conflicts. > > > > > > > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on > the > > > people's history that is the > > > > composite culture that developed in the > medieval > > > period. There are numerous > > > > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like > Sant > > > Kabir, Guru Nanak who > > > > tried to build communal harmony. > > > > > > > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and > musician who > > > had a deep love for the > > > > Brij language .It was he who introduced the > sitar and > > > the quawali. It may be > > > > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali > have been > > > taken from > > > > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was > a great > > > Sanskrit scholar who > > > > translated the Upanishad in Persian and > titled it > > > 'The Great Mystery'. In > > > > this book, he said, if after Koran, we > imagine the > > > concept of one God, it is > > > > the Upanishad. > > > > > > > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh > library. > > > One will be shocked to > > > > find that on the top right hand corner of > the > > > manuscript is written 'Sri > > > > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord > Ganesha. And > > > the left hand corner > > > > contains an invocation to Allah. Such > bonding needs to > > > be stressed in the > > > > textbooks. > > > > > > > > Communal harmony is necessary for our > survival. Once > > > Mahesh Bhatt, the > > > > eminent film director asked a war veteran at > Vietnam, > > > 'What was philosophy > > > > with which you fight war?' He answered, > 'One > > > philosophy, save your brother.' > > > > > > > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all > drown > > > together or we do not. > > > > We always try to analyse others and we see > other's > > > faults. We do not analyse > > > > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists > accused in the > > > Mumbai attack, was a > > > > Pakistani but the person who opened the door > was a > > > Hindusthani. Therefore, > > > > the ideology of secularism needs to be > reiterated time > > > and again. We have to > > > > assert the secular fabric of our nation. > Without this > > > we have no future. > > > > > > > > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 10:47:45 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:47:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony In-Reply-To: <655668.96843.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70901072041o5f2ccb1bp15fbdeb6447c7054@mail.gmail.com> <655668.96843.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901072117v36405773pfa7f2aca5f8ff7de@mail.gmail.com> Dear Yosaf , Please do find more information about Kamakhya Temple. Atleast 'finding' an information is better than 'inventing' it. Rgds Pawan On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Yousuf wrote: > Dear Pawan > I am not asking you to stop believing in what the priests told you. That is > their version of history. I am simply saying that let us not make > evaluations about today's reality based on what we read in history. > I will surely share with you any information I find about Kamakhya temple. > Thanks > > Yousuf > > > --- On *Thu, 1/8/09, Pawan Durani * wrote: > > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:11 AM > > > Dear Yousaf, > > I would like to believe the temple priest were wrong or my information > about Kamakhya Temple , one of Shakti Peeth, is wrong if woud provide me > with some information in which explains how Kamakhya Temple was given a > Jagir. > > Till the time you do that , let us believe the priests who have been there > since centuries. > > Regards > > Pawan > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Yousuf wrote: > >> Dear Pawan >> Its interesting that you have accepted the history of the temple as told >> by the priest or the locals, but you find my references (and my forwarded >> essay) as "not the right sources". We all know what sort of twisted and >> amusing history is told by the tour-guides and locals around some of these >> historical monuments. Did you read some of those write-ups I referred to? >> Would you elaborate why you find them unacceptable? And what kind of history >> sources are acceptable to you. >> >> In any case, I am not saying that any information one finds on the >> internet or for that matter from the locals is trustworthy or not. There is >> no such thing as an absolute truth in history. All facts are >> interpretations. But those based on more concrete evidences should certainly >> have more weight. So, you may have heard only about Aurangzeb's hate for >> Hindu temples and idol-worship (which I'm not denying) because that's the >> interpretation you have been given by our education system. But that does >> not mean that that is the final truth. >> >> The historians are forever ready to improve/update their versions >> according to the newer facts and evidences available. For example, we have >> all heard the story about how Aurangzeb hated music, and when some musicians >> tried to protest his ban of music by taking a mock funeral procession of >> music, Aurangzeb is supposed to have said "good, bury the music in such a >> deep grave that it should not rise again". Now, very recently, a UK >> historian has proved that this story is bogus and was wrongly attributed by >> later (European) historians. Recent research has also shown that if there is >> any era in India's history when the maximum amount of books (about 17) on >> the theory of Indian music were written (in Persian), it was during >> Aurangzeb's rule. But by this, I am not trying to portray only a positive >> picture of Aurangzeb. What I am hinting at is that because there are no >> final truths in history, we cannot and should not make any judgment or >> evaluation for today's >> reality based on what we read in history. >> >> Yousuf >> >> >> >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani wrote: >> >> > From: Pawan Durani >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history for communal harmony >> > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com >> > Cc: "sarai list" >> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 6:26 PM >> > Thank you Yousaf, >> > >> > I have been to kamakhya temple and since I had heard the >> > history of the >> > temple from few locals and the priests [ Almost all are >> > from UP settled >> > since centuries ] , i was shocked to read an article where >> > it was referred >> > that Kamakhya temple was given as a Jagir. >> > >> > No doubt there are some writers like Ms Chakraborty , which >> > are found almost >> > everywhere in India , who try to alter the history by >> > repeated distortion of >> > facts. >> > >> > I am surprised that Aurangzeb gave land to temples , as his >> > hate for idol >> > worship needs no introduction . The websites you have >> > referred may not be >> > taken as a right source. >> > >> > Thank you once again. >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Pawan Durani >> > Mumbai, India >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Yousuf >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Pawan >> > > I didn't find any specific detail about the >> > Kamakhya temple, but there are >> > > many references about Mughal rulers (such as >> > Aurangzeb) granting land for >> > > temples. You may look at some of these refs: >> > > >> > > http://www.iosworld.org/ebk7.htm >> > > >> > http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15102002/1510200212.htm >> > > >> > http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/06/03/news0405.htm >> > > >> > > Yousuf >> > > >> > > >> > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pawan Durani >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > From: Pawan Durani >> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Understanding history >> > for communal harmony >> > > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com >> > > > Cc: "sarai list" >> > >> > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:19 PM >> > > > Kamakhya temple in Guwahati given as a jagir is >> > a news to me >> > > > . Can someone >> > > > please share more on this , if it is true. >> > > > >> > > > Pawan >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Yousuf >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Understanding medieval history for communal >> > harmony >> > > > > CJ: Jayati Chakraborty >> > > > > >> > > > > Rulers' history is always a history of >> > conflict. >> > > > The conflicts between >> > > > > Hindu and Muslim rulers in medieval period >> > cannot be >> > > > seen as Hindu-Muslim >> > > > > religious conflict, as these were primarily >> > power >> > > > conflicts. It was an >> > > > > administrative necessity. >> > > > > >> > > > > HISTORY EDUCATION has failed to deliver >> > communal >> > > > harmony in India. This is >> > > > > because most of the history that we, as lay >> > men, know >> > > > is nothing but >> > > > > distortion. The most unfortunate aspect is >> > that we try >> > > > to understand history >> > > > > through religion. The entire history of the >> > medieval >> > > > era i.e. the Muslim >> > > > > period, which is crucial in understanding >> > the question >> > > > of Hindu Muslim >> > > > > unity, is basically rulers' history. And >> > > > rulers' history is always a history >> > > > > of conflict. >> > > > > >> > > > > For instance, we take the example of the >> > battles >> > > > between Shivaji and >> > > > > Auangazeb, Akbar and Rana Pratap, Mahmud >> > Ghazni's >> > > > destruction of the Somnath >> > > > > temple, Aurangazeb's destruction of >> > Hindu temples >> > > > etc to forment communal >> > > > > disharmony. But we forget that these >> > conflicts were >> > > > conflicts to acquire >> > > > > power. Rana Pratap's senapati or >> > commander-in >> > > > –chief was a Muslim. >> > > > > Similarly, Akbar'a commander was a >> > Rajput. It is >> > > > true that Aurangazeb >> > > > > destroyed a number of Hindu temples but what >> > we do not >> > > > know is that many of >> > > > > the Hindu temples (the Kamakya temple at >> > Guwahati) >> > > > were given as Jagir. In >> > > > > medieval times the Parmar rulers of Gujarat >> > destroyed >> > > > many Jain temples. >> > > > > Before the plunder at Somnath, Mahmud of >> > Ghazni >> > > > conquered Multan and >> > > > > destroyed many masjids or Muslim places of >> > worship as >> > > > well. >> > > > > >> > > > > The Muslim rulers of India had no fixed law >> > of >> > > > succession. So war of >> > > > > succession was a common feature during this >> > period. >> > > > Aurangazeb killed all >> > > > > his brothers and even imprisoned his father >> > in order >> > > > to ascend to the throne >> > > > > of Delhi. While he re-imposed the Jizya tax >> > on >> > > > non-Muslims, recent >> > > > > researches have shown that the largest >> > number of Hindu >> > > > Mansabdars existed >> > > > > during Aurangazeb's reign. >> > > > > >> > > > > If we closely analyse the history of the >> > sultanate >> > > > period, we find that >> > > > > kings of this period always tried to >> > restrict Ulema >> > > > intervention in >> > > > > administrative matters. Balban, Allauddin >> > Khilji, >> > > > Muhammad bin Tughlaq >> > > > > clearly refused to take any advice from the >> > Ulema (the >> > > > Islamic scholars), >> > > > > regarding administration. In the 1980s, when >> > Indira >> > > > Gandhi sent troops to >> > > > > the Golden Temple, the commander was a Sikh, >> > just to >> > > > send the message that >> > > > > this move was not because of disrespect for >> > any >> > > > religion. It was an >> > > > > administrative necessity. Similarly, the >> > conflicts >> > > > between Hindu and Muslim >> > > > > rulers cannot be seen as Hindu-Muslim >> > religious >> > > > conflict, as these were >> > > > > primarily power conflicts. >> > > > > >> > > > > Textbooks, therefore, must stress more on >> > the >> > > > people's history that is the >> > > > > composite culture that developed in the >> > medieval >> > > > period. There are numerous >> > > > > instances of the Sufi and Bhakti saints like >> > Sant >> > > > Kabir, Guru Nanak who >> > > > > tried to build communal harmony. >> > > > > >> > > > > Amir Khusrau was a well-known poet and >> > musician who >> > > > had a deep love for the >> > > > > Brij language .It was he who introduced the >> > sitar and >> > > > the quawali. It may be >> > > > > noted here that most of the ragas in quawali >> > have been >> > > > taken from >> > > > > Hindusthani classical music. Dara Sikhoh was >> > a great >> > > > Sanskrit scholar who >> > > > > translated the Upanishad in Persian and >> > titled it >> > > > 'The Great Mystery'. In >> > > > > this book, he said, if after Koran, we >> > imagine the >> > > > concept of one God, it is >> > > > > the Upanishad. >> > > > > >> > > > > The manuscript is available at the Azamgarh >> > library. >> > > > One will be shocked to >> > > > > find that on the top right hand corner of >> > the >> > > > manuscript is written 'Sri >> > > > > Ganesh Namah' with a picture of Lord >> > Ganesha. And >> > > > the left hand corner >> > > > > contains an invocation to Allah. Such >> > bonding needs to >> > > > be stressed in the >> > > > > textbooks. >> > > > > >> > > > > Communal harmony is necessary for our >> > survival. Once >> > > > Mahesh Bhatt, the >> > > > > eminent film director asked a war veteran at >> > Vietnam, >> > > > 'What was philosophy >> > > > > with which you fight war?' He answered, >> > 'One >> > > > philosophy, save your brother.' >> > > > > >> > > > > This is true for Indians also. Either we all >> > drown >> > > > together or we do not. >> > > > > We always try to analyse others and we see >> > other's >> > > > faults. We do not analyse >> > > > > ourselves. True, Kasab, the terrorists >> > accused in the >> > > > Mumbai attack, was a >> > > > > Pakistani but the person who opened the door >> > was a >> > > > Hindusthani. Therefore, >> > > > > the ideology of secularism needs to be >> > reiterated time >> > > > and again. We have to >> > > > > assert the secular fabric of our nation. >> > Without this >> > > > we have no future. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=155365 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> > media and the >> > > > city. >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to >> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > To unsubscribe: >> > > > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > List archive: >> > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 11:56:11 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:26:11 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Blog for ni card, related topics? (re: Multipurpose National Identity Cards Message-ID: Taha I am interested in this category of national ID card and surveillance. I think it would be great if you could put all these articles (44+) on a blog of your own. You can set one up at wordpress.com, I am sure you know them already. Because although I and maybe others are saving these items in our research folders, it will be very hard to find things afterwards. A blog with all these items added on continuous service would be a great service for Sarai readers. Then you also would not need to post here, people could just go the URL of blog and refresh. 1. News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National > Identity Cards-44 (Taha Mehmood > From ragini.saira at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 11:33:48 2009 From: ragini.saira at gmail.com (ragini saira) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:33:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege Message-ID: Hi -- i would like to know if there are any more planned actions/protests organized this week. Thanks, Ragini From press at tank.tv Tue Jan 6 19:27:06 2009 From: press at tank.tv (tank.tv press) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:57:06 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?www=2Etank=2Etv_=3A_Christoph_R=FCti?= =?iso-8859-1?q?mann_=3A_1=2E01=2E09_-_14=2E01=2E09?= Message-ID: <78c84f090901060557p6adecf09tfb6e7634fc9c11f3@mail.gmail.com> CHRISTOPH RÜTIMANN 'Handlauf - Handrail' 1st - 14th January 2009 www.tank.tv In 2009 tank.tv will embark on an ambitious series of solo shows. New exhibitions will open online every two weeks before being made available in our growing archive. This programme of solo shows represents an opportunity to examine a plethora of approaches to the moving image whilst allowing in-depth insight into each individual artist's practice. We are pleased to announce that the first artist in this series will be Christoph Rütimann. Rütimann's 'Handlauf' series leads us on an endless camera ride through the world. Beijing, Skopje, Spullersee, Piccadilly Circus, Fuerteventura and back. Railings and handrails serve as camera tracks in these remarkable and hypnotic works. The special perspective of the rolling camera and the constant view of the 'tracks' pulls on the spectators eye as the field of vision is drawn into the camera's lens. As the central perspective is recreated continuously before being lost and mirrored in the viewer's eye the soundtrack created by the hard plastic wheels of the camera rattles and rolls. Rütimann's work is characterised by a number of artistic strategies that range from performance, via text and video works, to classical means of expression, such as drawing, painting and sculpture, which he constantly questions as to their fundamental parameters. Despite all the diversity of the media he deploys, constant invariables in his oeuvre can still be made out: lines as two- or three-dimensional boundaries, colours and their inherent qualities but also a game of chance or gravitation. In any case, a reference to scientific questions is tangible that Rütimann however approaches playfully, expanding the presumed rationality of scientific discourses by an unfathomable dimension. Over the past years he has, among other things, worked on a remarkable series of video works. For additional information visit www.tank.tv. -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA press at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: 'Straight to Video' Grizedale Arts on film 2000 - 2008 1st December - 31st December 2008. Fresh Moves - Out now! Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 12:55:37 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:55:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel In-Reply-To: <1f9180970901072246o72847a19na42976903887f930@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970901072246o72847a19na42976903887f930@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901072325x42cc7979g6ae409c3adb4669@mail.gmail.com> Israeli barbarism in Gaza By Dekel Avshalom in Israel Tuesday, 06 January 2009 In a surprise attack last week, Israel's air force infiltrated the Gaza Strip and started blasting away. On Saturday, the air force was accompanied by blasting from the navy and infiltration of tanks and foot soldiers into the Strip causing death and destruction in horrifying dimensions. Up to this time, the death toll for Palestinians stands at 526 people, with 2500 injured. Israeli officials, in particular Defense Minister Ehud Barak, keep reminding us that "this is just the beginning". Israeli media is overjoyed in stressing the claim that the "majority" of the victims are Hamas soldiers. We do not exactly know how they define a "Hamas soldier", but the fact that 107 of the murdered victims were children, makes it very hard for us to believe such claims. This attack is overwhelming in nature. It has been reported that since the 1967 war Israel had never used such a massive air attack. After an Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip This attack was preceded by a series of deceptive manoeuvres on the part of Israel in order to keep Hamas off guard. Israel kept up the pretence of negotiations on the ceasefire and even allowed goods to enter the Strip. This deception should not come as a surprise to anyone who knows Ehud Barak's tactical mind. Just a short while ago, Barak used the same deceptive tactics in order to lull some entrenched Rightist Jewish settlers in Hebron before evacuating them by force. A statesman in such a high position does not normally use such tactics unless he is desperate. And Barak's desperation is what lies behind such an unprecedented attack. Barak apparently saved the attack for a special moment in which he could improve his position in the polls for the upcoming national elections. These polls consistently show that the party under his leadership will receive its lowest number of votes to date. For a long time Barak postponed the attack so it would not seem that he was working under the pressure of his opponents. He wanted the credit all for himself. Now, the Israeli masses, worked up by the media, got what the media told them they wanted: revenge. Barak plans to surf on a wave of Palestinian blood into a position of larger number of seats in parliament. In many ways, this attack has similarities with the Lebanese fiasco in 2006. It also is a staggering failure for Israel from the very moment it was concocted in the twisted minds of Barak and the army generals. Just as in Lebanon, also here the army has failed to stop the rocket launching into Israel. Hamas launched hundreds of them uninterruptedly, killing 3 Israelis in one day and wounding several others. It would also not be surprising if it comes out that the army wanted this result in order to incite Israelis against the Palestinians and to maintain support for the current operation. Just as in Lebanon, also here the operation has no concrete purpose. It is obvious that it cannot destroy Hamas, which will surely rearm itself within a few months of the operation ending. So it all seems just like an unleashing of random violence by the army for no obvious reason other than crude revenge. The difference between the current operation and the Lebanese one is that now the media is full of praises for the Defense Minister and the army on the exact level of performance that was shown in Lebanon. Collaborating democracy with imperialism How do we explain a situation where the Israeli masses have been whipped up into such a state of mind of a vengeful and shortsighted focus of their political worldview on "getting back" at the Palestinians? What should not be underestimated here is the psychological warfare the Israeli ruling elite has been waging against the Israeli masses. The media, the military and the politicians have been collaborating to create the impression that the rocket launching from the Gaza Strip has made the surrounding Israeli settlements look like a war zone. In actual fact, since 2004 to just before the recent operation began, the number of Israelis killed by such rockets is less than 15. To put things in perspective, the number of Israeli workers that died because of accidents in their workplaces during this period, was over 10 times that number. This number also resembles the number of Israelis that die in traffic accidents in less than two weeks. So if Barak is really so eager to protect Israeli lives through military means, he should be mobilising the air force against the Israeli bourgeoisie and the state bureaucrats responsible for transport safety rather than against the Palestinian masses! The military is making the lives of the Israelis in the settlements around Gaza as fearful as it can be. It is inducing a feeling of panic among the public using every means including loud sirens, arbitrary "defence" measures such as ducking and hiding, and forcing people into bomb shelters, all in response to rockets that pose a minimal security threat. All this horror show is designed with one aim in mind: to make ordinary Israelis support the continuity of Israel's control over Gaza, and thus to pressure or to help democratically elected politicians to fall in line with imperialist interests. In the current economic crisis, control over Gaza is crucial to Israeli imperialism more than ever since the first Palestinian uprising in 1987. First of all, it satisfies the military's hunger for state spending on arms. The military, and the politicians under its influence, have proven themselves eager to do battle in any period in which their fiscal prerogatives are at jeopardy. The most crucial thing for Israeli imperialism, however, is to maintain stability for the "moderate" PLO in the West Bank which provide Israel with numerous resources in terms of one of the cheapest workforces in the world, a captive market that is dependent on absorbing Israel's surpluses, and land and water resources that Israel desperately needs. It requires the "pacifying" of Gaza in order to make sure that the terrorism it hosts will not slide over into the West Bank and undermine the PLO regime. This is not to say that Gaza is meaningless to Israel in its own right. Despite its massive levels of poverty, the fact that the Gaza masses depend on goods coming through Israel gives the Israeli capitalists an advantage in terms of a captive market as well, that is, as a long-term perspective. This may also explain why the Israeli army has made much more of an effort to destroy the tunnels that smuggle goods from Egypt than it has to destroy the rocket launchers which were the formal reason for the operation in the first place! What does Hamas want? Unlike common-sense economic reductionism held by many on the Left, terrorist groups don't simply grow out of poverty. Just as the PLO, Hamas emerged from within the Palestinian petty bourgeoisie. They use the masses and their plight mostly as a tool to achieve their class interests which in this context usually include more lucrative jobs and positions. After Israel co-opted the PLO into collaboration with it in exchange for jobs created especially for the PLO members (the jobs created under the cloak of the "Palestinian Authority"), Hamas wanted its peace of the pie as well. Palestinians of the West Bank demonstrate their solidarity with the people in Gaza It started to gather support from many frustrated Palestinians in the face of the PLO's betrayal using, among other things, vengeful acts of terrorism against Israelis. In parallel, it used similar tactics of terrorism in order to lure Israel into negotiating with it, carrying the risk of Israel's military, rather than diplomatic, retaliation. Just like Israel's ruling class, Hamas also benefits from the occupation. It uses it in order to gather support by the same populist means of violent rhetoric and actions used by the Israeli politicians. It also enjoys political and economic benefits via its control over smuggling commodities into the Strip: just like Israel, it to can benefit from the captive market in Gaza. In such a situation it is puzzling why, some among the international Left are tempted to take a supportive stance towards Hamas. They usually state that despite Hamas' reactionary ideology, it should be supported because of its "progressive fight against Israeli imperialism". The folly of such an idea becomes obvious if we look at Hamas from materialistic lines and ask ourselves what would happen if Hamas were to win this conflict? Will it weaken Israeli imperialism as the idealistic Leftists assume? A victory for Hamas could only mean that Israel would be forced to negotiate with it and give it similar political concessions as it gave to the PLO. The imperial relation of Israel towards the Palestinians may take a different form, but it will remain intact. Because under capitalism Palestine cannot be completely cut off from Israel, and will always be dependent on it, a national liberation movement that limits itself to struggling within the confines of capitalism cannot go in any other direction. Furthermore, bourgeois or petit bourgeois national liberation leaders have usually tended to push the proletariat in the oppressed nation into accepting their leadership because they became aware of the potential power of the workers. Such was the alliance between the South African workers and the ANC leaders who brought down the apartheid regime. But Here, Hamas has made very little effort to create an alliance with the Palestinian workers. Until now it has mostly just harassed their trade unions. Hamas thus have only the power of terrorism and collisions with the Israeli army to get concessions from Israel. Relying on this broken reed, its "anti-imperialist" credentials appear as somewhat exaggerated. Is there a way out? We are entering yet another cycle of violence between Israel's ruling class and Hamas. Such cycles began with Israel's opening up to the PLO in 1994. Each cycle brings Israel to a more violent response. However, the army has no intention of remaining entangled in the Strip for too long. This operation may last a bit longer and be much more violent than its predecessors because Barak's election campaign has to be taken into consideration. Although it is also true that once it ends, the operation always leaves behind the preconditions for the next operation. Demonstration against the war in Amman (Jordan) The Zionist chauvinism that characterized the first days of the operation is gradually being replaced by fear of yet another debacle such as in Lebanon. Journalists are constantly asking political and military leaders for the actual goals which this operation intends to achieve. The answers are always vague and illusive, such as "to radically change the array of deterrence". In that background, the announcement of Barak on Saturday was especially alarming. He said that the operation would take a long time and would have numerous victims. With no one knowing what this operation is for, this holds a puzzling future for the stability of the political system in Israel: after the chauvinism fades away, the death toll will keep increasing and many questions will be raised by the masses. To the dismay of the Israeli ruling class, thousands of Jews and Palestinians came this Saturday to Tel Aviv for a mass demonstration against the war (see video below). This is unprecedented. In the Lebanese war it took two months of bloody entanglement for so many protestors to show up. The protestors were constantly harassed by Zionist counter-protests which show just how frightened they are of the emerging protest movement in Israel. Small as it is now, the Zionists are instinctively aware of the fact that it holds the only real key to their downfall. As this website has repeated many times over, there cannot be a solution within the confines of bourgeois politics to this or any other major political conflict in the world. However, for the moment Israel and Palestine are deprived of any other form of politics. As long as this situation persists, these cycles of violence will continue. We can be sure, though, that from the impossibility of a solution to the situation under capitalism, new political forces are bound to emerge on both sides. The nature of these new forces is impossible to predict at this stage. But if they do not base themselves on the revolutionary collaboration of Israeli and Palestinian workers and poor against their mutual oppressors, no progressive change can be forthcoming from within the Israeli-Palestinian borders. Anti war demonstration in Tel Aviv ________________________________ See also: Stop Israel's massacre in Gaza! by Walter Leon (December 30, 2008) Israel: Tel Aviv municipal elections - a Pyrrhic victory for the Right by Dekel Avshalom (November 17, 2008) Three years after Israel's disengagement from Gaza: critical reassessment by Dekel Avshalom (August 28, 2008) Hamas and Israel agree on ceasefire by Dekel Avshalom (June 19, 2008) Much ado about nothing: the Israeli "peace" talks with Syria by Dekel Avshalom (May 28, 2008) Israel turns 60 – where next for the Jewish and Palestinian peoples? by Luke Wilson (May 16, 2008) Israel storms Gaza: once again "peace" talks prepare war by Francesco Merli (March 5, 2008) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 8 13:30:03 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:00:03 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On the question of open research. Message-ID: <65be9bf40901080000o597b8ab6j90f0377d77f9048b@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, There has been some interesting discussion on the question of research yesterday. Jeebesh kindly suggested that I should blog these news articles and other research stuff that I will be posting on the reader list. Today Naeem seconded this opinion adding that in the face of blog I may not have to post these mail here on the reader list. I most respectfully submit that I strongly oppose these suggestions. I present my reasons as follows- I am clearly amused for in the past four years or so that I have been closely following this list, I have seen phases where one topic or other have had more currency than others. The reason for this had been the enthusiasm of one person to post or of other persons to respond. I am clearly and utterly confused as to WHY Jeebesh and Naeem thinks that posts related to MNIC ONLY are worthy of a blog. Seen from my perspective, I find Naeem's post on Bangladesh or Jeebesh's forwards on labour and piracy to be equally relevant to be archived in a blog. WHO DECIDES that one type of knowledge is worthy to be blogged the other not??? What is the rational for this decision or this anxiety??? The reader list is a public archive. Even if one feels that ones individual mail boxes are getting clogged up and one may want to trash some mails in order to make more space then one can always go back to the reader list archives to access some data, if one wants to. The other reason is more close to my heart. It relates to the practice of research. The slow churning of an idea over a period of time. The building up and crashing down of a dialectic between the intense desire to latch up to something new and to work against that desire to hold on to a thought. The knowledge that gets produced is then displayed out to the world as a complete product. That knowledge is like a made up doll. While reading Nozick I was touched by the way he approached this question of isolated research and argumentation, and I would like to quote him, he suggests- One form of philosophical activity feels like pushing and shoving things to fit into some fixed perimeter of specified shape. All those things are lying out there, and they must fit in. You push and shove the material into the rigid area getting it into the boundary on one side and it bulges out on another. You run around and press in the protruding bulge, producing yet another in another place. So you push and shove and clip off corners from the things so they will fit and you press in until finally almost everything sits unstable more or less in there; what doesn't gets heaved far away so that it wont be noticed. (of course, it's not all that crude. There's also coaxing and cajoling. And the body English.) Quickly, you find an angle from which it looks like an exact fit and take a snapshot; at a fast shutter speed before something else bulges out too noticeably. Then, back to the darkroom to touch up rents, rips, and tears in the fabric of the perimeter. All the remains is to publish the photograph as a representation of exactly things are, and to note how nothing fits properly into any other shape. [Robert Nozick, 1974. Anarchy,State and Utopia, preface ppXiii] As a thought experiment I want to challenge this sensibility of representation of an idea as a picture perfect photograph. I have done that for four years and I have shared with you all the final products of that exercise. The reason why I want to take this exercise of real time research is because I think if we the members of reader list claim in some way to be engaged in meaning making process of some form of an unfolding social reality then it is imperative that we make attempts to understand it at a deeper level, I am just trying to create a consciousness about an issue that I am interested in, by systematically and methodically sharing with you all, all the threads of data that I find interesting. I take Shuddha's mails on Kashmir, Shivam's mails on Ragging, Vivek's mail on poetry, Aarti's mails on the idea of the State, Aditya's mails on Kashmir and Yosuf mails on syncreticism as an evidence of previous attempts by Sarai Reader list members to present before us a range of arguments and make an invitation to collectively think through a social reality that they were interested in at a point of time. I am merely following this tradition of rigorous public thinking. What is so unique or wrong in that? Now, what I want to know, in terms of precise arguments, either from Naeem or Jebeesh or anyone who is kind enough to explain it to me, as to why in their considered and thoughtful opinion they believe that mails or knowledge contained in mails on other topics is not useful or valid enough to be blogged or archived or preserved separately? I would certainly consider it a great service if all the mails on Bangladesh or on labour or piracy or intellectual property rights are blogged separately but while subscribing to the reader list I understand that people who post here do not have an agenda except to engage other like minded people in a meaningful exchange of ideas. Warm regards Taha From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 13:30:17 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:30:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Anarchist Argument Against Capitalism. Message-ID: <47e122a70901080000l11a998c9ue3d6645ebd2bccb5@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Two or three more Satyam like frauds, Shining Indian economy would look like say Nepal's . Govt. is on the side of Corporate. Future of 53000 thousand employees is at risk. There is no concept of UNIONISM in Capitalism. I wonder if defects of Capitalism are debated world over, more politically than academically, a new hope can emerge; may even tell us why there is terrorism, and why there are wars, and even why there is environmental degradation, poverty and absence of Love, but… Here is the anarchist argument against Capitalism. A little longer to read, but quite emancipating http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/wsm_capital.html Stripping the mystery from the money markets ________________________________________ Most people only worry about currency exchange rates when they're changing money for a holiday, but over the last few years, they have become increasingly hard to ignore. Government ministers appear on TV to inform us that interest rates will have to go up or down, or reassure us that, having spent hundreds of millions of pounds, our standing in the ERM is now safe. What are they talking about? Part of the move towards European integration, indeed, one of the main reasons for this move, is making sure that the value of all the European currencies stays at more or less the same level. If the pound today is worth 5 francs, 100 pesetas, or 1,000 lira, then it should always be worth about 5 francs, 100 pesetas, or 1,000 lira. This is because, if a business is exporting stuff to Germany, it wants to be sure that the 10,000 marks it gets paid is worth as much as when the price was agreed, otherwise it could end up making huge losses. Speculators The problem is that the value of a currency depends ultimately on how much other people are willing to pay for it, and that, in turn depends on millions of other things, like the general strength of the economy, that no-one can really control. When, as happened with sterling, speculators (basically the big banks and investment companies) think that the price is too high, they start selling the currency - forcing its price down. To try to keep the price up, governments will increase interest rates, so investors will save their money in that country, or buy as much of the currency as they can. Naturally, we're the ones who have to pay for all of this. If interest rates go up because of speculators attacking a currency, our mortgages and bank loans become more expensive. When governments use their reserves to buy up currency, they then have to spend the next few years building their reserves back up, which means less public spending and more taxes. And no matter how much of our money the government spends, they still have little chance of fixing the value of the currency. No-one's in charge The problem isn't simply one of having the wrong government in power - no matter how 'socialist' the ruling party, they will still be faced with the same situation. If a price for the currency is not fixed, then companies will go out of business, with the attendant loss of jobs, through losses incurred as their payments are changed from one currency to another. (Not to mention the complications in terms of EU membership raised by dropping out of the ERM) On the other hand, because it is not the only player in this game, the state simply isn't in a position to set the price of its money. Just as manufacturers try to produce the most profitable goods, investment companies and banks are drawn to the most profitable markets. They speculate on currencies because they are trying to make a profit for their shareholders and investors, even if these are the same people who end up losing if a currency is devalued. Whatever happens, they are in the position of enforcers for the 'iron law of the market', and until that 'law' is challenged, we're going to keep going in the same old circles. Capitalism, by its nature, is chaotic. A rational economy requires a new system - anarchism. ……………………………………………… -- A guide to how capitalism functions and why it is destroying our world and the people who live on it. But there is resistance! Abolish private property" has been a slogan used by anarchists since the dawn of the industrial age. It's a pity they couldn't have found a better way of wording it. Anarchist views have become so misrepresented by defenders of the existing order that some people think it means that we would take away their house, their car, or even their TV. It's nothing like that. It has nothing to do with the personal possessions that we all should be able to have. When that slogan was first used 'private property' referred only to private ownership of productive property. It was - and still is - about denying anyone a 'right' to own factories, big farms and the means of distributing products, such as railways, airlines and road haulage fleets. Anarchists are opposed to such private ownership because we are opposed to exploiting people. There are those, usually of the ruling class, who will deny that there is exploitation in the Ireland of the 1990s. All that stuff belongs to the bad old days ...or does it? In the distant past things were a lot more obvious. A peasant had to work two or three days a week on the landlord's estate but got no payment for it. It was as clear as day that part of the fruit of that peasant's labour had been stolen by the lord. Now workers are paid for all the hours they put in. Some may be underpaid by current standards, but they don't have to give their boss a set number of hours without pay. So how can anyone claim they are being exploited in the sense of having to work for nothing so that some parasite can benefit? Under the present economic system - capitalism - goods are produced in order to be sold. Most of us do not have products to sell. We do, however, have something else to sell. We have our ability to work, our labour power. Wages are the price we get for our labour power. Without labour power nothing can be produced. Even an apple on a tree has no value until it is picked, it is the labour used to pick it that gives it value. Otherwise it could not be eaten, it would just rot on the branch and be of no use to anyone. It all seems simple and straight- forward. We work (if we are lucky enough to have a job), our work creates value,and we get paid for it. So what's the problem? It is that our wages never add up to the full value of our work. The difference between what we get in wages and what the product or service is sold for (after allowing for expenses) is what bosses call profit. This is their source of income. This is the basis of capitalism, a small minority living off the unpaid wages of the majority. Anarchists are working for a future where the ownership of industry will be taken away from the bosses and instead will become the property of society as a whole. Its control and management would be vested in bodies democratically elected by the workers themselves. The world of work would not be geared to generating profits for a class of rich idlers like Tony O'Reilly, Margaret Heffernan or Michael Smurfit. Instead decisions about what to produce, and what to invest in improvements and new processes, would be taken on the basis of what is socially useful. Production would be geared to meet people's needs rather than to satisfy the greed of a tiny minority. That would be the end of 'private property'. Why the bosses system can't sort it out ________________________________________ The list of jobs to be done in Ireland is endless. Houses need to be built, roads need to be repaired, hospitals and schools need to be adequately staffed. At the same time 265,300 people are unemployed in the 26 counties (official figures for end of August, which do not include those on FAS Schemes, early retirement and SES Schemes). Why can't these jobs be given to those who want them? Is it because we have a right wing government and all we need is a more 'caring' one? Or is there a more fundamental reason, one specific to capitalism? In this article we explain how long unemployment lines are part and parcel of the capitalist system. And we explain why "booms" and "recessions" and millions of people dying of hunger are something that leftist or "socialist" politicians in government can't do anything about. First, a brief economics lesson. Picture a typical business with workers and owners. In a small business the owner will also be the boss. But in big corporations and multinationals the owner would be the majority shareholder who may never meet you. The following still applies whether there are 10, 100 or 100,000 employed in the business, and whether the owner/boss is the local shopkeeper or a cigar smoking Texan billionaire. What we will look at in this business is the way the finances are arranged. And in particular, who controls them. The workers who do not own anything do the majority of the work and get paid by the owner/boss. Also paid by the owner is a relatively fixed sum for maintenance of machinery, electricity and gas bills, rents, taxes, etc. The bosses who own everything and do at most a small fraction of the work reward themselves out of what is left over. This means that they get more for themselves if they pay out less in other expenses. The main expense that the owners can lessen is the wages and working conditions of the workers, so these are attacked most. THE CLASS STRUGGLE This is what is meant by the class struggle. The capitalist system creates two main classes, owners/bosses (or ruling class) and workers (or working class). The more the working class wins (through strikes and militant action), the less the ruling class has. The ruling class is a tiny minority and so must defend its "property" (i.e. the ownership of factories, businesses and land) from the majority by use of repression. This involves using a wide spectrum of tools, from the propaganda of the education system and Church to the State courts, police and army. The working class will be constantly forced to fight to win and protect gains from this class. And as long as the capitalist system exists these two classes will be pitted against each other. But how does this lead to unemployment? Why not employ everyone, including developing the third world. Surely this would mean more workers, more profits and so more money for the ruling class. The reason why, in the Western World, is competition. CAPITALIST COMPETITION Different companies have to compete with each other to sell more, in order to make higher profits and increase the money in the bosses' pockets. To protect their present sales and hopefully increase them, the ruling class must invest in more research and development, more modern machinery, advertising and marketing. This costs money. The bosses are faced with the problem of trying to recover this money. They can produce more of the product in the hope of selling more and they can try to lower workers wages. RECESSION The recession starts when more goods are produced than people can afford to buy. Sales and therefore profits drop as shops start filling up with unsold goods. Then the ruling class resorts to the second method of keeping their profits up. They start imposing wage freezes and wage cuts. Recently, for example, Cooks Travel workers in Britain had their wages "voluntarily" cut - they were given the choice to accept wage cuts or lose their jobs! This accentuates a downward spiral. As people have their wages cut they buy less; prices are put up and wages put down. Finally the owners start sacking people and closing down factories. The number of unemployed in Cork City has risen by 5,000 this year. Small companies drop like flies, companies like the Cere Star chemical factory which laid off 80 of its 86 workers recently. In Britain one out of every fifty businesses have closed down this year. The situation is the same elsewhere in the world as the thousands of returning, out of work, emigrants will testify. A point about the recession is that profits have not vanished, they have just gone down low enough for large parts of the ruling class to make more by earning interest from government funds, stocks and speculation rather than by direct investment in business. Fortune magazine in its September issue announced that the average wealth of the richest 202 people has gone up from $2.6 billion to $2.7 billion in the past year. Meanwhile it is the working class who suffer. Unemployment soars, wages are slashed. Working class confidence dives. Women are most effected by cuts in public services: housing, hospitals, schools and transport. THE SO-CALLED 'BOOM' The recession ends as it began - when the economic conditions are right for the ruling class. That is, when they can make high enough profits by investing in production instead of speculating on the stock market. In the absence of a large fighting movement, workers will be forced to work for less and accept worse conditions. The unemployed are used by the bosses to threaten the security of workers' jobs. For the same reason strikes and militant action will be at a minimum. And with less money being spent on wages, health, education and housing the owners will take a larger chunk of the profits for themselves. As the economy pulls out of a recession only one thing is sure - it is going to collapse again. Not that a "boom" is any way brilliant. It just means that a large amount of bosses are making an extraordinarily large amount of money. Any increase in living standards won by the working class is only a fraction of that which is gained by the ruling class as the last "mini-boom" showed. The horrific pictures of people starving in Ethiopia first came in when the world economy was last at an all time high. Even then, Thatcher was smashing the miners, cutting support to schools and hospitals, and crushing the independence of the unions with the new anti-union laws. The unemployment rate in Ireland still hovered, officially, between 17% and 19%. Hospitals were being closed down and the youth were still emigrating to find jobs. The numbers homeless in the United States reached the highest level ever recorded. The ruling class will never invest in lower than average profit making businesses simply because they don't need to. And it is in their interests to keep people unemployed and hungry. The only sizable gains that are made for the workers are when they fight for them and win them against the ruling classes' wishes. ONE SOLUTION - REVOLUTION Therefore capitalism can only offer to the worker a continuous struggle, against the ruling class, for the necessities of life. We can never be as rich as the ruling class, because we can never own what they own. The only way to achieve long term riches for all is by a complete elimination of the class system. It will have to be replaced with ownership of the means of production by the working class. And that means everybody having a fair say in how things are run, not just a ruling "political party" clique who would be no more than the replacement of one set of rulers by anotherGlobalisation: the end of the age of imperialism? [In Spanish] [In Polish] ________________________________________ IT HAS BECOME increasingly fashionable to use the term globalisation as a description of the international economy and international political relations. Globalisation is meant to have taken over from imperialism, when a handful of large states openly and directly ran most or the world. The bosses' magazine, The Economist, ran a major article on this New World Order called 'The New Geopolitics' last July. It described this supposed transformation: "The imperial age was a time when countries A, B and C took over the governments of countries X, Y and Z. The aim now is to make it possible for the peoples of X, Y and Z to govern themselves, freeing them from the local toughs who deny them that right." Many on the left, including some anarchists, have critically adapted this description of the New World Order. Central to this is the idea that the rapid movement of money made possible by the 'information age' and the growth of multinationals means that the age of imperialism - when powerful nation states dominated the world - has been replaced by a more abstract and invisible but equally powerful rule by capital which is not tied to any state. At first sight such a description seems compelling, it is 'common sense' that international trade has increased and that treaties like the European Union are breaking down the old nation state. But does globalisation provide us with an accurate description of how the world works? In fact the Economist article admits that "...before the first world war some rich countries were doing almost as much trade with the outside world as a proportion of GDP as they are doing now (and Japan was doing far more)". Assuming 'rich' to be a polite word for 'imperialist' here, what has changed is in fact the sheer volume of world trade (and wealth) along with the fact that smaller countries are now far more involved. End of the nation state? But this is not the end of the nation state. In fact since 1914 the number of states had rocketed from 62 to 74 by 1946 and today it stands at 193. The other surprise is that in the wealthy nations state spending as a percentage of GDP (a measure of the relative wealth of a country) has actually increased since 1980. The central idea of globalisation - capital becoming increasingly independent of any particular nation state therefore has to be questioned. Again the Economist is unusually honest here in asking what is "the central reason why a state remains". It answers "the State is still the chief wielder of organised armed force". Recent wars clearly divide into two types. Some involve geographic neighbours fighting each other, commonly over border demarcations like India and Pakistan. Others involve interventions by countries that may be 1000's of km's away, most commonly on the basis of 'humanitarian intervention' as with the UN interventions in Iraq and Somalia or the NATO intervention in Kosovo. But when we look at these second type of interventions we find that, far from the distant countries being a random collection or selected according to size, every single one of these interventions has been led by one country, the USA. Beyond this the second and third most important forces in the intervention will also be drawn from a very small pool of countries including Britain, France and Italy. Clearly, on the military side at least, such interventions are not random but are dominated by a small number of what the more old fashioned amongst us would term imperialist powers. The US is the dominant power and, with its NATO junior partners, has proved able to dictate to any and every other nation on the planet. Indeed NATO has no realistic rivals. The closest you might come is an imaginary alliance of China and Russia. This would face a power with not only a larger and far better equipped military force but which also has over ten times the economic muscle (NATO's GDP in 1997 was 16,255 billion dollars, Russia's was 447, China's 902). However the spread of democratic ideas, and knowledge about other countries, has meant that 'old style' imperialism has lost its popularity. That is why imperialism today is far more likely to hide behind 'humanitarianism' and a whole range of supposedly international bodies. When we look at these 'international' bodies, however, we find that they are constructed in such a way that only the major powers have a real say in decision making. The United Nations The United Nations was the great hope for many as an alternative to war, or to a peace where rich countries could do as they please. Even today many well-meaning people all too often refer to the UN as if it was an alternative to US or NATO domination of the globe. The UN may claim to be a global body representing all countries, but in reality - for effective intervention - it may only act with the say so of a tiny number of powerful military powers. These are the five permanent members of the Security Council (USA, Britain, France, Russia and China), each with the ability to veto any intervention that goes against their interests. In effect the UN is a cover behind which these countries can wage war when it suits them - as when the UN supposedly went into Iraq to protect Kuwaiti sovereignty in the 1991 Gulf war. But they can stop the UN acting in other cases, so for instance no UN body invaded the US to protect Nicaraguan sovereignty when the Reagan administration were mining its harbours in the 1980's. Even where the smaller countries disapprove and partly block military action behind the UN banner, the NATO countries have proved adapt at ignoring calls for negotiated solutions and using UN resolutions as an excuse for war as in the ongoing bombing of Iraq. Often these excuses are astounding hypocritical. NATO could bomb Serbia supposedly to protect ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo from Serbian paramilitaries yet stands by while Turkey (a NATO member) massacres ethnic Kurds. The Security Council mechanism by which the major powers control the UN and hence military intervention is quite well known on the left. However what is not so widely realised are the similar mechanisms that exist by which - without resorting to arms - the major imperialist powers, and the US in particular, can control the world economy. Once this is revealed the idea of globalisation becomes no more then a cheap card trick designed to disguise and take away our attention from the imperialist domination of the world. Economic control - Debt, the World Bank and the IMF One aspect of this economic control has recently got a lot of attention, if perhaps a little indirectly. That is the massive debt owed by 'Third World' countries. The Jubilee 2000 campaign, which demands that 'unpayable' debt be abolished, has had considerable success in mobilising tens of thousands on demonstrations in support of this demand. Some 800,000 people in Ireland alone have signed the petition for the abolition of the debt. What is seldom mentioned is the central part debt plays for the western powers in dictating how third world economies are organised. The debt crisis of the late 1970's and early 1980's proved an ideal leverage for the western powers to force 'free trade' on the 'third world'. This occurred when third world countries faced with falling incomes and rising interest rates defaulted on their loans. Before this many countries had followed a policy of 'import substituionism' which meant that they tried to manufacture goods like, for instance, cars that they had previously imported. Without suggesting this sort of policy offered a positive alternative role it did have one big disadvantage for the imperialist powers, it tended to deny them both markets and cheap raw materials. What the imperialist powers wanted, and what they essentially have won, was a system where the third world provided cheap raw materials & labour and acted as a market to consume the products of companies with their bases in the imperialist countries. But for obvious reasons this would not be a popular policy for the people of those countries, except perhaps the few who could be promised a share of the profits generated if they would administer the system. When the debt crisis hit in the mid-1980's, starting with Mexico's declaration that it was unable to repay loans in 1982, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund stepped in. Despite the fact that these institutions are household names most people have very little idea of what they do or how they function. Until recently they were quite happy to keep things that way. One dollar - one vote In summary, both these bodies are designed in a way which favours the powerful western nations - they are based on the pro-business principle of "one dollar - one vote". What is more, their internal decision making structure gives the US a veto - enabling it to block any decisions that go against it's economic interests. They are technically part of the UN structure, but in reality the western powers have an even greater say in them then they have in the UN. In the case of the IMF the US holds 17% of the vote while only 15% is required for a veto. In the case of the World Bank it has managed to insist that every single president is a US citizen. Thanks in particular to the debt crisis, the power of these institutions is so great that no country can defy their dictates without losing the ability to engage in foreign trade. The debt crisis forced most developing nations to hand over control of at least part of their economies to the IMF and World Bank. This occurred in the 1980's when individual countries became unable to repay loans. At that stage the IMF and World Bank would step in and 'offer' to facilitate re-structuring of the loans providing the country concerned implemented an IMF dictated 'Structural Adjustment Program'. Typically these involve removing barriers to imports and removing whatever protection of workers 'rights' and pay exists. This is usually achieved through high inflation, privatisation and anti-union laws (and indeed physical repression). Alongside this, spending on education and health are slashed. In the 1980's an official of the Inter-American Development Bank described these as "an unparalleled opportunity to achieve, in the debtor countries, the structural reforms favoured by the Reagan administration". The payoff It shouldn't be imagined, through, that this means the local ruling class likes these policies. In reality today most Latin American economies are controlled by locally born but US educated economics graduates. As Latin American intellectual Xavier Gorostiaga observed "Neo-liberalism has united the elite's of the South with those of the North and created the biggest convergence of financial, technological and military power in history". In 1960, the income of the wealthiest 20% of the world's population was 30 times greater than that of the poorest 20%. Today it is over 60 times greater. The top 20%, though, is too crude a measure. According to the UN "the assets of the 200 richest people are more than the combined income of 41% of the world's people." This highlights what is perhaps the major post-war change to the imperialist system. Before the war the old colonialist countries like Britain and France had controlled it. They favoured a very obvious system of direct rule with the local ruling class being composed of people sent out from the imperialist country for that purpose. This system caused great resentment amongst the local middle class as it denied them the possibility of promotion into these roles, and more often than not the racist nature of the imperialist power meant the local middle class had to put up with all sorts of petty oppressions. The post-war years saw many anti-colonial revolts in which the working class and peasants, under middle class leadership, united to throw out the imperialists. With the growth of these movements, and the growth in the military and economic might of the US, the old imperialist powers were frequently defeated and a section of the local ruling class would take over the running of the country, often with American aid but sometimes with Russian aid. As US dominance grew a post-colonial system was constructed where, in return for accepting terms of trade favourable to US business, the local ruling class would be allowed some local control. Some, of course, were not happy with this but by the 1980's the debt crisis on the one hand and the collapse of the USSR on the other meant they had little choice and most came over. The US has constructed a 'New World Order' in which it pulls almost all the economic and military strings. With such control there is no need for it to rely on 'old fashioned' direct imperialist control. Through the IMF/World Bank and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) it can set the rules of global trade with its junior partners of the G7 nations (the seven most powerful economies). Recently it has not flinched from using these powers on its 'junior partners' in particular with its attempts at imposing Genetically Modified foods on reluctant European states. The handful of 'rogue' states that are reluctant to accept its rule have been easily contained, militarily and economically in the case of North Korea and Cuba or bombed into the stone age in the case of the ongoing war against Iraq. Those who suffer from this new imperial order include the workers and peasants of the developing world. Real wages in most African countries have fallen by 50-60% since the early 1980s and in Mexico, Costa Rica and Bolivia average wages have fallen by a third since 1980. But workers in parts of the developed world, and in particular the US, have also seen falling living standards and wages. This global economic order had given new weapons to the major companies by which they can dictate economic policy to even the governments of the developed world. The threat of mass withdrawal of investment has essentially ended the post- war social democratic compromise throughout Europe, in particular in countries like Britain. The nation state continues to be central to this 'New World Order'. Multinationals may trade everywhere but their headquarters, administrative and research facilities are concentrated in the imperialist nations. The recent trade war about bananas grown in the Caribbean, for instance, was fought between US and European based transnationals, despite the fact that neither grows significant quantities of bananas. Limited space here only allows a brief exploration of these bodies behind which US imperialism hides. Importantly I haven't touched on resistance to this domination that has taken many forms. This July saw over 250,000 Turkish workers demonstrating against IMF imposed 'reforms'. June saw the global J18 day of action; this November will see widespread action against the WTO summit to be held in Toronto, Canada. But what should be obvious is that before we can decide on the most effective form of action against imperialism we need to identify its real nature - despite whatever mask it may choose to hide behind. ............................... What about human nature? A WORLD without war, famine, poverty, racism? A world where there are no bosses ordering us around and living off our work? A world where competition is replaced by co-operation and individual freedom? Sounds nice. Who wouldn't like to see it? But it can never happen, it runs against human nature. How many times have you heard that line? How many times have you been told that people are naturally selfish, greedy, prone to violence and short-sighted? We are constantly being told that there will always be leaders and led, rulers and ruled. These ideas are powerful because they seem to make sense. We do live in a nasty, competitive society. IT WOULD BE A MIRACLE Capitalism is based on competition. Countries compete, companies compete. At work you are encouraged to compete for promotion (or to avoid being let go), in school you compete against other students to get the best exam results. With so much competition around it would be miraculous if people were not competitive. The question is whether this is natural? The idea that there is some eternally flawed human nature that we can't do much about gets lots of support from those with a stake in the existing set-up. Anarchists reject this as self serving nonsense churned out by those who are doing well out of capitalism and don't want to see it got rid of. WHO DOESN'T CARE? Despite the odds stacked against it we can find just as many examples of caring and co-operation as we can of selfishness and competition. Solidarity strikes are an obvious one. We even saw workers in Dunnes Stores go on strike for months in support of black workers in South Africa whom they had never even met. Look at any working class neighbourhood and you will find people caring for each other. They are organising football teams for the teenagers, summer projects for the younger children. This doesn't make sense if greed is part of our human nature. WILLIE BERMINGHAM Greed and selfishness don't motivate people to carry kidney donor cards or make them want to donate blood to the transfusion service. Greed did not inspire the late Willie Bermingham to start up ALONE to care for the elderly living on their own. Selfishness does not lead people to give money to charities. It does not explain why nurses volunteer to work unpaid for Concern projects in the less developed countries. But, we are told, there are those better suited to ruling, that inequality is natural and inevitable. Before capitalism the ruling class used the argument that God had chosen them, the 'divine right of kings'. With capitalism came a new justification. We are told that our bosses and rulers owe their position to superior talent. They 'merit' their position. ARE THEY BETTER THAN YOU? We are told that with intelligence and hard work anyone can make it. The other side of the coin is that those at the bottom of society are there because of their own laziness or because they are not as bright as the likes of Haughey or Ben Dunne. Are we really expected to accept that Dan Quayle is an intellectual giant? Are we to believe that the child of a millionaire has only the same chances as the rest of us? This is crap pushed at us to stop us questioning why the many do all the work while the few make all the important decisions and live off the fat of the land. The true story is that we are products both of the environment we live in and of the changes we make on it. We have no control over what sort of society we are born into but we can change it. CHANGING VIEWS OF 'NATURAL' To law-abiding parents stopping the heroin dealers was a job for the gardai. When the gardai were not moving against the Larry Dunnes and Ma Bakers those same law-abiding parents thought it quite natural to organise into the CPAD and put the pushers out of their areas - even though doing that was illegal. To the conscripted American soldier in Vietnam blindly obeying orders from officers seemed perfectly natural. After years of slaughter and massacres, desertion and even mutiny seemed natural. To most workers getting in to work each Monday morning and taking orders from the boss seems natural until they are forced to strike. They may even challenge the right of the boss to control their workplace by occupying it. WE CAN DO IT We have the power to change the world. The ruling class know this and try to divide us. They split us into Protestant and Catholic, gay and straight, black and white, working class and so-called middle class (white collar workers). But again and again the system throws us together in struggle. It is in struggle that we we come to depend on each other and co-operate for a common goal. This is the first step towards building a society where selfishness is replaced by co-operation, where the dictate of the boss is replaced by freedom, where we take control of our own lives and futures. ...................... Have I got news for you? SUNDAY MAY 13th saw the first national conference of anti-water charge campaigns from all around the country. In Dublin a majority of eligible householders are ignoring the law and refusing to pay. Similar figures are available elsewhere. Yet this conference received only one and a half column inches in the Irish Times, and no mention in any other paper. Meanwhile the Finance Minister, Ruairi Quinn, was bringing in a new law which will require accountants to report any of their clients who they discover are breaking the law by trying to cheat on tax. The accountants protested by holding meetings and issuing press statements. Their side was covered in all sections of the media: radio, newspapers and television. Special TV programmes were made about them, and they even had an accountant on Questions & Answers to plead their case. Biased reporting This is a good example of the way reporting is carried out. TV, radio and newspapers publish very bland accounts of what is going on. They may make a big deal, and give us all a laugh, out of the so-called sexual scandals of the British Tory party. We also see a lot of articles criticising working class people such as "dole spongers" or people claiming "too much" on their insurance. But serious investigative journalism is usually avoided when it comes to business or politics. In general, the mass media is pro-business and pro-state. It is not a conspiracy This is not a conspiracy theory. We do not belive there is a secret force controlling mainstream media reporting, intent on bending the truth one way or another. There are very good reasons why the media is as it is. It costs a fortune own a newspaper or TV company. Anybody who does so, like Tony O'Reilly, Rupert Murdoch or Conrad Black, is a millionaire. Media moguls are in the same league as the rest of the rich. They hang pout in the same clubs, they buy racehorses from each other and, more importantly, they have similar economic interests. They all want a stable economy, friendly to capitalists like themselves. They support each other in trying to lower their employees' wages and breaking strikes. They all want to see lower public spending on services like health, and more tax breaks for the rich. While it is true that they complete with each other for audiences and advertising, it is also true that they have far more in common with each other than with the rest of us. Power of advertising There is a more direct link that connects the ruling class with media coverage. That is advertising and shareholding. Most papers and broadcasting stations depend on advertising to stay afloat. It costs thousands of pounds to put even a short advert. on TV or in a national newspaper. That is why most of it comes from multinationals, banks, insurance firms, etc. If one newspaper published articles slagging off the Bank of Ireland, they would soon find the bank refusing to buy advertising space from them. There are only so many big advertisers. If a media outlet was to lose this advertising to a competitor they would quickly find themselves in trouble. Profits would fall, and the shareholders would threaten to pull out. So no media company will be in hurry to publish controversial news about a company that advertises with them. Likewise, they are most unlikely to publish anything controversial about people who own shares in their firm. The process can be more subtle, harder to pinpoint. Most media are dependent on advertising to be profitable, and advertisers target certain groups in their campaigns (e.g. people with high incomes). The paper or TV station, then, will also have to target these groups if it is to attract advertising, which further narrows the range of opinions they are likely to broadcast. These factors help to ensure that little of a controversial nature gets into the mainstream propaganda networks. It makes simple economic sense. That is why a massive, if passive, revolt can take place in the suburbs of Ireland and the media are not interested. And that is why it takes amateurs putting in voluntary time and energy to publish alternative news and ideas. ............................................ The World Bank : Robbery With Violence Mozambique lies in the southern part of Africa. It is a huge country, nearly ten times the size of Ireland. Despite great riches under the ground - diamonds, coal and precious minerals - it is an very poor country. Today, the legal minimum wage is only $40 per month. Out of a total working population of nearly seven million adults, a bare 90,000 people earn this sort of money - most people earn a lot less or nothing. Last year, in order to maintain basic standards of income, the Mozambique government announced, with the agreement of business and the trade unions, that it was increasing the minimum wage by about 37% or $14 dollars per month. At first sight this might have seemed like a bonanza - in actual fact it wasn't. Last year, inflation in Mozambique was running at over 40%. Putting the sums together, you'll see that even with the increase of $14 per month most people would still be losing out. The problem is that this increase of $14 per month never actually happened. A dispute arose between the World Bank (WB), the International Monetary (IMF) and the government of Mozambique as to whether or not Mozambique "could afford" this pay rise. A representative of the IMF, a person by the name of Sergio Leite, intervened and ordered that, in accordance with IMF/WB policy, inflation in Mozambique be kept at just 24% annually. In other words, no pay rise. A further dispute then arose. It was pointed out to Mr Leite by a group representing countries such as Denmark and Sweden that the infrastructure of Mozambique was already in danger of collapse. Some 30,000 jobs in the government had already gone, largely as result of cuts introduced by the IMF/WB in 1994. These jobs, a quarter of all salaried work in the country, were mainly in areas like health and education - areas already poorly funded. The outcome for Mozambique, in relation to this particular case, is still not clear. Despite the interventions of outside governments on its behalf, the stark likelihood is that the World Bank and IMF will eventually get their way. This gives some idea of their enormous power in today's world. It is often power over life and death. WORLD WAR II No one ever elected the IMF's Sergio Leite into power. In fact, it is probable that few people in Mozambique even know who he is, or even know about what he is doing. In reality, Leite himself is just a messenger for decisions that are taken about Mozambique in Washington, London and Geneva. In the headquarters of the World Bank and the IMF, decisions are also taken about many other countries - in Africa, Asia, South America, and European countries like Ireland. It is here that the real course of our lives is decided. We may vote - at elections - for whomever we want, or for whatever polices are on offer - but, at the end of the day, what actually happens is not decided by us but by the likes of those who run and staff the World Bank and the IMF. These two institutions - set up during World War 2 - decide on the main features of our economies today. They decide on whether money should be put into the economy (increased public spending) or whether money should be taken out (cutbacks). They have one main consideration in mind when they make these decisions. They consider 'what is the best thing for business' - that's what happened in Mozambique. FAVOURABLE The World Bank and IMF obtained the power that they now have largely as result of the unequal balance in wealth that was created in the world by colonialism. Countries like Mozambique, and to a lesser degree Ireland, were plundered under colonialism. They were left with very little in terms of infrastructure - that is schools, housing, roads, electricity services, hospitals, etc. On the other hand, countries such as England, France, Italy and the United States emerged in much better condition. It was these countries, the main beneficiaries of colonialism, that set up the World Bank and the IMF in 1944. The proper name for the World Bank is actually the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development. From this name, one can get some idea of what the actual purpose of the WB is meant to be: "to loan money at a favourable rate to developing countries for the purposes of economic development and progress." In theory this is a great idea. Developed countries like Britain, the USA and Japan have enormous resources and wealth at their disposal. Why shouldn't they lend money at a reasonable rate to poorer countries for the purposes of development? In fact, obtaining cheap money (credit) so as to provide hospitals, schools, roads, power plants, and a clean water supply is one of the best ways to help build up the wealth of a country. Actually, it is one of the best ways to help people. The problem with this theory, however, is that it takes no account of capitalism - the prevailing manner in which the world is organised. Because of capitalism the World Bank creates poverty and destitution in most countries that it involves itself with: (see box 1) DEBT IS GOOD Colonialism created massive inequality wherever it went. Many Irish people, for example, will be familiar with this in regard to Britain - a country that has always been wealthier than Ireland. But in 1870, when colonialism was well underway in Africa, Asia and the Americas, estimates of the disparity in wealth in world were put at only one to ten. That is, rich countries were ten times wealthier than poor countries. By 1960 however - just ninety years later - that estimate of the disparity had risen to thirty-eight times. (That is, rich countries were thirty-eight times wealthier than poor countries.) The amazing thing is, is that just twenty-five years on from that again (in 1985) the estimate had risen to fifty-two times. This gives some idea of the impact that institutions like the World Bank and the IMF have had from the time they were set up. Rather than helping to alleviate inequality they began, very quickly, to make it worse. Looking at the figure above, another thing is also very noticeable. In more recent decades (since the early 1970s) the increase in the disparity in wealth has actually begun to accelerate - that is, it is beginning to increase at a faster and faster pace. To explain and understand why is this so, a couple of things must be borne in mind - these give some indication of the disaster than is now facing many millions of people in this world. It also explains, in part, why nothing short of revolution will change it. Borrowing to pay for development became an accepted (and correct) part of the world economy after WW2. Almost all countries borrowed to some degree - in part as a response to the need to develop, in part because borrowing was an accepted economic practice. However, with the onset of massive oil price rises in the early seventies, prices sky-rocketed. So did the interest rates that were payable on borrowed money. In response to this, many countries (in the First World) cut back on their borrowing and spending - this in turn led to a massive recession. BIG STICK All countries were hit by the oil crisis and by the recession. But poorer countries were hit severely. Because their economies were weak and vulnerable they had to continue borrowing despite the high costs involved. Some just borrowed to pay the interest on the massive debts that they had already accrued with the WB. Between 1977 and 1982, the crisis that became known as the 'Debt Mountain' was well underway. In some countries over 50% of all monies earned in exports was immediately going to pay off just the interest on the debt. This was the first real occasion when the IMF and the World Bank began to step-in with the big stick, demanding that things be done its way or else. In particular, the World Bank underwrote a lot of the world's debt (much of which was owed to private banks). In this way, it began to obtain an enormous say in the internal affairs of many countries. Indeed, it should be borne in mind, that while this was happening at its worst in Africa, it happened to some degree in all countries including Ireland As the 'Debt Mountain' began to grow, economic thinking (if one could call it that) also began to shift towards what we now call 'Thatcherism' or 'Reaganomics'. This meant, that if there were bills to be paid, then it was better to get poor people to pay them. These sorts of policies began to be applied throughout Africa, in particular, from the early 1980s onwards. They were known as Structural Adjustment Policies (or SAPs). In general, their thrust was to cut funding to all non-essential services as a means of 'saving money' in the debtor countries (Mozambique for example). The 'saved money' could then be diverted to paying off the banks (the WB included). One of the major problems with SAPs, as they are applied, is that 'non-essential services' are often defined as the very services that the most people need in the first place - for instance hospitals, schools and the public services in general. DISASTER Even in the early eighties, some countries were able to avoid some of the more stringent aspects of the SAPs. This was largely because of the existence of the Soviet Union, which, to a degree, funded development in its own right. For obvious reasons, the Soviet Union tended to financially support countries that took a friendly attitude to it; it also tended to trade with these countries. This, at least, gave some countries an alternative source of credit and food (which allowed them some bargaining room with the IMF/WB). However, with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989, this fallback position was removed. Many countries, from that point on, had no choice but to deal with and accept the commands of the World Bank and the IMF - which led to the real disaster that is now facing millions in the world. At a time of enormous wealth, millions are starving and dying from problems that could be eradicated with a relatively small sum of money. The United Nations has estimated that just $11 billion would pay for all the primary health care needs in all countries that are, today, considered to be 'developing countries'. This includes catering for all the immunisation requirements in these countries and for the removal of all serious malnutrition, as well as providing safe, clean drinking water for everyone. Just $11 billion - one tenth of what rich countries spend on weapons every year. Since the introduction of the SAPs in the 1980s, levels of poverty and destitution have risen rapidly in Africa and throughout the world (see graphic 1). Ironically, the World Bank's World Development Report (a yearly publication) often flags this. In fact, there is no better source for data on the world's appalling poverty statistics. But the World Bank, while having the facts and figures at its fingertips, rarely draws the right conclusions about its polices. On certain occasions, it is true, it does admit to 'errors', and even 'miscalculations' with regards to the SAPs. But, largely, it tends to blame forces outside its control, like 'Africa' or 'corruption' or 'famine'. The fact is is that the SAPs, more than any other single policy strategy in the last twenty years, have impoverished millions. WHO BENEFITS? Given the degree of debt that currently exists in the world, one might be forgiven for thinking that the world's economic system has gone mad. After all, it is a strange to think that a country as rich as Mozambique is close to collapse - given its mineral wealth, its natural amenities and its resources. Indeed the impression that the world's economic system is 'out of control' is quiet wrong. Bear in mind that now as much as ever, enormous wealth is being made from the misery of the poor. Therein is the key to what is wrong. Institutions like the WB and IMF have an enormous say in the running of the world - this is why they were set-up. But who benefits from this power? You? Me? Hardly. The real beneficiaries are the people who depend on the Third World for its enormous mineral resources and for its cheap labour pool. Coal, diamonds, alumina, coffee, tea, grain, nickel, tin (to name but a few) are all purchased at prices that are far, far below their real worth. We may ultimately buy the tea or the coffee or the coal - but it is the merchants in the middle that make the real profit. Ultimately they control the price of many commodities - and in this way they also obtain an important say over the wages and conditions of the workers in these countries. From such control comes the massive profits that are the hallmark of capitalism today. Kevin Doyle THE World Bank Game The Money: The USA, Canada and Britain set up the WB. These 'donor countries' also set up the rules. 'Donor countries' vote on the WB Board according to the size of their 'donations'. The USA has always dominated the Bank. The Projects: Hydroelectric dams, ports and highways are favoured by the WB. Projects like these eat up 50% of all money 'loaned'. Often the ports are located 'conveniently close' to a some Multinational company that is doing business in the country at the same time. For example: modern deep sea port and dock facilities to allow for the export of iron ore, coal or alumina. The Jobs: Often very few jobs result. For instance, 'heavy industry' construction is often contracted back to companies in the 'donor countries'. (In fact a lot of the 'loaned money' ends up there). The Bills: The 'debtor country' pays the bills on all constructions. Often the final bill is a massive mark-up when interest payments are taken into account. A further headache is that 'heavy industry' construction is often the wrong thing for poorer countries. Their requirements are often much more basic: housing, water pipes, irrigation, etc. The People: WB bank planners don't tend to consider 'the other side' of development: community disruption, environmental degradation, etc. Dam construction is a classic example - disrupting huge numbers of people for benefits that might often only accrue to a few. Human Rights? Not necessary. The WB will work with all types - the bottom line is you must be a capitalist. The WB regularly does business with dictatorships. Often people connected with the dictatorship obtain 'spin-off businesses' from the main project (bribery and backhanders are not uncommon.) The World bank and Cheap Labour Cheap labour means massive profits for business people. In today's world this means that companies are much more prepared to travel anywhere to rip-off workers. The World Bank encourages this by "encouraging developing countries to adopt favourable wage polices". In return the World Bank gives these countries a good 'credit rating'. An example of this policy in action is the case of Indonesia where the government has officially set the minimum wage below the poverty line. But who benefits? Nike, the sports shoe company, pays its workers in Indonesia just 16p an hour to make its 'Nike Air Pegasus' brand. These shoes sell for over £45 here in Ireland. Total manufacturing labour costs for this type of shoe are only 2% of the final retail cost! WORLD Bank death: fighting back The World Bank and the IMF are killing thousands of people every week with their policies. They won't change unless they are forced to. During the coming months the Workers Solidarity Movement - along with other anarchist groups in France, Switzerland, Sweden, Spain and Italy - is taking part in a campaign to highlight and fight against 'WORLD BANK DEATH'. Demonstrations are planned on May Day. A further mobilisation with take place in Lyon, in France, in June to coincide with the next meeting to the G-7 (the 'donor countries' in the WB). If you want to get help out with these protests, contact the WSM as soon as possible. Remember the more people that get involved, the more we can do! From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 13:34:37 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:34:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FOR AFGHANS, A PRICE FOR EVERYTHING, AND ANYTHING FOR A PRICE by Dexter Filkins Message-ID: <47e122a70901080004m4f750192j3975765304deaf9e@mail.gmail.com> New York Times, page A1 of the New York edition. January 2, 2009 FOR AFGHANS, A PRICE FOR EVERYTHING, AND ANYTHING FOR A PRICE by Dexter Filkins Kabul, Afghanistan ? When it comes to governing this violent, fractious land, everything, it seems, has its price. [Photo] Danfung Dennis for The New York Times [Caption] A man pulls a cart loaded with fire wood past a mansion owned by high-ranking government officials in the Sherpur neighborhood of Kabul. [Photo] Danfung Dennis for The New York Times [Caption] The mansions of Afghan officials in the Sherpur neighborhood of Kabul are a curiosity not only for their size, but also because government salaries are not very big. Want to be a provincial police chief? It will cost you $100,000. Want to drive a convoy of trucks loaded with fuel across the country? Be prepared to pay $6,000 per truck, so the police will not tip off the Taliban. Need to settle a lawsuit over the ownership of your house? About $25,000, depending on the judge. ?It is very shameful, but probably I will pay the bribe,? Mohammed Naim, a young English teacher, said as he stood in front of the Secondary Courthouse in Kabul. His brother had been arrested a week before, and the police were demanding $4,000 for his release. ?Everything is possible in this country now. Everything.? Kept afloat by billions of dollars in American and other foreign aid, the government of Afghanistan is shot through with corruption and graft. From the lowliest traffic policeman to the family of President Hamid Karzai himself, the state built on the ruins of the Taliban government seven years ago now often seems to exist for little more than the enrichment of those who run it. A raft of investigations has concluded that people at the highest levels of the Karzai administration, including President Karzai?s own brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, are cooperating in the country?s opium trade, now the world?s largest. In the streets and government offices, hardly a public transaction seems to unfold here that does not carry with it the requirement of a bribe, a gift, or, in case you are a beggar, ?harchee? ? whatever you have in your pocket. The corruption, publicly acknowledged by President Karzai, is contributing to the collapse of public confidence in his government and to the resurgence of the Taliban, whose fighters have moved to the outskirts of Kabul, the capital. ?All the politicians in this country have acquired everything ? money, lots of money,? President Karzai said in a speech at a rural development conference here in November. ?God knows, it is beyond the limit. The banks of the world are full of the money of our statesmen.? The decay of the Afghan government presents President-elect Barack Obama with perhaps his most underappreciated challenge as he tries to reverse the course of the war here. Mr. Obama may be required to save the Afghan government not only from the Taliban insurgency ? committing thousands of additional American soldiers to do so ? but also from itself. ?This government has lost the capacity to govern because a shadow government has taken over,? said Ashraf Ghani, a former Afghan finance minister. He quit that job in 2004, he said, because the state had been taken over by drug traffickers. ?The narco-mafia state is now completely consolidated,? he said. On the streets here, tales of corruption are as easy to find as kebab stands. Everything seems to be for sale: public offices, access to government services, even a person?s freedom. The examples mentioned above ? $25,000 to settle a lawsuit, $6,000 to bribe the police, $100,000 to secure a job as a provincial police chief ? were offered by people who experienced them directly or witnessed the transaction. People pay bribes for large things, and for small things, too: to get electricity for their homes, to get out of jail, even to enter the airport. Governments in developing countries are often riddled with corruption. But Afghans say the corruption they see now has no precedent, in either its brazenness or in its scale. Transparency International, a German organization that gauges honesty in government, ranked Afghanistan 117 out of 180 countries in 2005. This year, it fell to 176. ?Every man in the government is his own king,? said Abdul Ghafar, a truck driver. Mr. Ghafar said he routinely paid bribes to the police who threatened to hinder his passage through Kabul, sometimes several in a day. Nowhere is the scent of corruption so strong as in the Kabul neighborhood of Sherpur. Before 2001, it was a vacant patch of hillside that overlooked the stately neighborhood of Wazir Akbar Khan. Today it is the wealthiest enclave in the country, with gaudy, grandiose mansions that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Afghans refer to them as ?poppy houses.? Sherpur itself is often jokingly referred to as ?Char-pur,? which literally means ?City of Loot.? Yet what is perhaps most remarkable about Sherpur is that many of the homeowners are government officials, whose annual salaries would not otherwise enable them to live here for more than a few days. One of the mansions ? three stories, several bedrooms, sweeping balconies ? is owned by Abdul Jabbar Sabit, a former attorney general who made a name for himself by declaring a ?jihad? against corruption. [Photo] Danfung Dennis for The New York Times [Caption] Farooq Farani has been trying to resolve a property dispute. An Afghan judge wants $25,000, but Mr. Farani has refused. After he was fired earlier this year by President Karzai, a video began circulating around town showing Mr. Sabit dancing giddily around a room and slurring his words, apparently drunk. Mr. Sabit now lives in Canada, but his house is available to rent for $5,000 a month. An even grander mansion ? ornate faux Greek columns, a towering fountain ? is owned by Kabul?s police chief, Mohammed Ayob Salangi. It can be had for $11,000 a month. Mr. Salangi?s salary is unknown; that of Mr. Karzai, the president, is about $600 a month. Mr. Ghani, the former finance minister, said the plots of land on which the mansions of Sherpur stand were doled out early in the Karzai administration for prices that were a tiny fraction of what they were worth. (Mr. Ghani said he was offered a plot, too, and refused to accept it.) ?The money for these houses was illegal, I think,? said Mohammed Yosin Usmani, director general of a newly created anticorruption unit. Often, the corruption here is blatant. On any morning, you can stand on the steps of the Secondary Courthouse in downtown Kabul and listen to the Afghans as they step outside. One of them was Farooq Farani, who has been coming to the court for seven years, trying to resolve a property dispute. His predicament is a common one here: He fled the country in 1990, as the civil war began, and returned after the fall of the Taliban, only to find a stranger occupying his home. Yet seven years later, the title to Mr. Farani?s house is still up for grabs. Mr. Farani said he had refused to pay the bribes demanded by the judge in the case, who in turn had refused to settle his case. ?You are approached indirectly, by intermediaries ? this is how it works,? said Mr. Farani, who spent his exile in Wiesbaden, Germany. ?My house is worth about $50,000, and I?ve been told that I can have the title if I pay $25,000 ? half the value of the home.? Tales like Mr. Farani?s abound here, so much so that it makes one wonder if an honest man can ever make a difference. Amin Farhang, the minister of commerce, was voted out of Mr. Karzai?s cabinet by Parliament earlier last month for failing to bring down the price of oil in Afghanistan as the price declined in international markets. In a long talk in the sitting room of his home, Mr. Farhang recounted a two-year struggle to fire the man in charge of giving out licenses for new businesses. The man, Mr. Farhang said, would grant a license only in exchange for a hefty bribe. But Mr. Farhang found that he was unable to fire the man, who, he said, simply bribed other members of the government to reinstate him. ?In a job like this, a man can make 10 or 12 times his salary,? Mr. Farhang said. ?People do anything to hang on to them.? Many Afghans, including Mr. Ghani, the former finance minister, place responsibility for the collapse of the state on Mr. Karzai, who, they say, has failed repeatedly to confront the powerful figures who are behind much of the corruption. In his stint as finance minister, Mr. Ghani said, two moments crystallized his disgust and finally prompted him to quit. The first, Mr. Ghani said, was his attempt to impose order on Kabul?s chaotic system of private property rights. The Afghan government had accumulated vast amounts of land during the period of Communist rule in the 1970s and 1980s. And since 2001, the government has given much of it away ? often, Mr. Ghani said, to shady developers at extremely low prices. Much of that land has been sold and developed, rendering much of Kabul?s property in the hands of unknown owners. Many of the developers who were given free land, Mr. Ghani said, were also involved in drug trafficking. When he proposed drawing up a set of regulations to govern private property, Mr. Ghani said, he was told by President Karzai to stop. ? ?Just back off,? he told me,? ? Mr. Ghani said. ?He said that politically it wasn?t feasible.? A similar effort to impose regulations at the Ministry of Aviation, which Mr. Ghani described as rife with corruption, was met with a similar response by President Karzai, he said. ?Morally the question was, am I becoming the fig leaf to legitimate a system that was deeply corrupt? Or was I there to serve the people?? Mr. Ghani said. ?I resigned.? Mr. Ghani, who then became chancellor of Kabul University, is today contemplating a run for the presidency. Asked about Mr. Ghani?s account on Thursday, Humayun Hamidzada, a spokesman for Mr. Karzai, said he could not immediately comment. The corruption may be endemic here, but if there is any hope in the future, it would seem to lie in the revulsion of average Afghans like Mr. Farani, who, after seven years, is still refusing to pay. ?I won?t do it,? Mr. Farani said outside the courthouse. ?It?s a matter of principle. Never.? ?But,? he said, ?I don?t have my house, either, and I don?t know that I ever will.? Abdul Waheed Wafa and Sangar Rahimi contributed reporting. From monicabhasin at hotmail.com Wed Jan 7 12:18:51 2009 From: monicabhasin at hotmail.com (Monica Bhasin) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:48:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] 5th Tri Continental Film Festival 2009 Message-ID: Breakthrough proudly announces the 5th Tri Continental Film Festival, 2009 – “Human Rights in Frames”. The Festival has emerged as a leading platform for human rights cinema in India. It opens in Delhi on January 15th and will be inaugurated by critically acclaimed actor and social activist Nandita Das. After Delhi it travels to Mumbai, Goa, Bangalore and Kolkata. So block your calendars for the following dates! Delhi: 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th January Venue: India Habitat Centre and Alliance Françoise de Delhi Mumbai: 23rd, 24th and 25th January Venue: Little Theatre, National Centre for Performing Arts (NCPA) Goa: 24th, 25th and 26th January Venue: Maquinez Palace, ESG Complex, Panaji Bangalore: 30th, 31st January and 1st February Venue: Alliance Françoise de Bangaluru Kolkata: 6th, 7th and 8th February Venue: Nandan, 2 A.J.C. Bose Road Look out for film listings and schedules on our brand new website www.triconfilm.com which will be accessible Sunday 11 January 2009 onwards! Warm Regards, Alika Khosla Asociate Director Monica BhasinFestival Programmer _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mitoo at sarai.net Wed Jan 7 13:17:42 2009 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:17:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Talk @ Sarai- Theorizing Caste Violence in Postcolonial India: thoughts from Maharashtra Message-ID: <49645E1E.8090107@sarai.net> Talk at Sarai Navayana-Sarai Lecture # 3 Theorizing Caste Violence in Postcolonial India: Thoughts from Maharashtra by Anupama Rao Date: 12th January 2009 Venue: Seminar Room, CSDS Time: 3:30 pm This talk takes up the relationship between symbolic politics and political violence as they have influenced changing repertoires of caste violence and Dalit politics in Maharashtra, from the /namantar/ struggle of the 1970s to the present. Anupama Rao is trained as an anthropologist and historian, and teaches at Barnard College, Columbia University. She is the author of /The Caste Question: Dalits and Politics in Modern India/ (University of California Press, forthcoming); contributing editor of /Discipline and the Other Body: Correction, Corporeality and Colonialism/ (Duke University Press, 2006), as well as /Gender and Caste: Contemporary Issues in Indian Feminism/ (Kali for Women, 2003), and the author of numerous articles, including "Death of a Kotwal: Injury and the Politics of Recognition," /Subaltern Studies XII/ (Permanent Black, 2005). -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mitoo at sarai.net Mon Jan 5 12:11:50 2009 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:11:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Panel Discussion on The Terrorist and the Citizen: How Television Transforms Political Life Message-ID: <4961ABAE.8030701@sarai.net> Institute of Economic Growth and the India International Centre invite you to a panel discussion on The Terrorist and the Citizen: How Television Transforms Political Life 4 pm on Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 Lecture Room, India International Centre Annexe Chair: Arindam Sengupta, Executive Editor, Times of India Jawed Naqvi, Delhi correspondent, The Dawn, Karachi Ashutosh, Managing Editor, IBN 7 Harinder Baweja, Editor-Investigations, Tehelka Dipankar Gupta, Professor of Sociology, Jawaharlal Nehru University _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From saheliwomen at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 13:37:10 2009 From: saheliwomen at gmail.com (Saheli Women) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:37:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Convention on War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes>> Sunday, 11th Jan 2009, 2-7 pm, Constitution Club In-Reply-To: <12d068e70901072353s5849aecfg9ff2db6865742351@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d068e70901072353s5849aecfg9ff2db6865742351@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12d068e70901080007i42af84c1l6d21c14da83d64c0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, Join us on Sunday 11th January 2009 and also endorse the enclosed statement on Mumbai attack. In solidarity, Saheli *Say NO to war and a clampdown on our democratic rights!!* *Join us for a day of discussions and cultural programs* *Convention on* *War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes* 11 January 2009 (2.00 pm – 7.00 pm) Deputy Speakers Hall, Constitution Club Rafi Marg, New Delhi ** *Session 1* *Chair: Pamela Phillipose* ** - *Post Mumbai attacks: An Overview* - *Tapan K. Bose* - *Tackling terror: Implication for democratic rights* - *Nitya Ramakrishnan * - *Media: Its response and role* - *Tarun Tejpal & Ved Bhasin* - *Feminist perspective* - *Seema Kazi* *Tea break* *Session 2* *Chair: Manoranjan Mohanty* - *International linkages of war: Politics and Nexus* - *Kamal Mitra Chenoy* - *Perspective from Trade Unions* - *Ashim Roy* - *Voices from the Student community* - *Sandeep Singh* - *Strategizing for the future* - *Gautam Navalakha & Apoorvanand* * …with poetry recital and songs by Shweta Tripathi, Sania, Sumangla Damodaran, Gauhar Raza, Vagish Jha and Kishore Chowdhury * *Organized by:* ANHAD, Delhi Forum, FDI, Indian Social Institute, INSAF, Intercultural Resources, JAGORI, JMI TA, JNU TA, Kriti Team, NACDOR, NFFPFW, Nirman Mazdoor Panchayat Sangam, PIPFPD, PUCL, PWESCR, SADED (CSDS), Saheli, SAMA, SANGAT, The Other Media ********* *For more information, contact: * *Ravi** Hemadri (+91 98714 15186), Vijayan MJ (+9198681 65471), * *Kalpana Mehta (+91 92124 49198)* From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 15:15:15 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:15:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901072325x42cc7979g6ae409c3adb4669@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970901072246o72847a19na42976903887f930@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901072325x42cc7979g6ae409c3adb4669@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901080145x659aeb77p32e86e19a70d8f8e@mail.gmail.com> I was wondering how much Hamas is resposnsible for instigating this. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, indersalim wrote: > Israeli barbarism in Gaza > By Dekel Avshalom in Israel > Tuesday, 06 January 2009 > > In a surprise attack last week, Israel's air force infiltrated the > Gaza Strip and started blasting away. On Saturday, the air force was > accompanied by blasting from the navy and infiltration of tanks and > foot soldiers into the Strip causing death and destruction in > horrifying dimensions. Up to this time, the death toll for > Palestinians stands at 526 people, with 2500 injured. Israeli > officials, in particular Defense Minister Ehud Barak, keep reminding > us that "this is just the beginning". Israeli media is overjoyed in > stressing the claim that the "majority" of the victims are Hamas > soldiers. We do not exactly know how they define a "Hamas soldier", > but the fact that 107 of the murdered victims were children, makes it > very hard for us to believe such claims. This attack is overwhelming > in nature. It has been reported that since the 1967 war Israel had > never used such a massive air attack. > > After an Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip > > This attack was preceded by a series of deceptive manoeuvres on the > part of Israel in order to keep Hamas off guard. Israel kept up the > pretence of negotiations on the ceasefire and even allowed goods to > enter the Strip. This deception should not come as a surprise to > anyone who knows Ehud Barak's tactical mind. Just a short while ago, > Barak used the same deceptive tactics in order to lull some entrenched > Rightist Jewish settlers in Hebron before evacuating them by force. > > A statesman in such a high position does not normally use such tactics > unless he is desperate. And Barak's desperation is what lies behind > such an unprecedented attack. Barak apparently saved the attack for a > special moment in which he could improve his position in the polls for > the upcoming national elections. These polls consistently show that > the party under his leadership will receive its lowest number of votes > to date. > > For a long time Barak postponed the attack so it would not seem that > he was working under the pressure of his opponents. He wanted the > credit all for himself. Now, the Israeli masses, worked up by the > media, got what the media told them they wanted: revenge. Barak plans > to surf on a wave of Palestinian blood into a position of larger > number of seats in parliament. > > In many ways, this attack has similarities with the Lebanese fiasco in > 2006. It also is a staggering failure for Israel from the very moment > it was concocted in the twisted minds of Barak and the army generals. > Just as in Lebanon, also here the army has failed to stop the rocket > launching into Israel. Hamas launched hundreds of them > uninterruptedly, killing 3 Israelis in one day and wounding several > others. It would also not be surprising if it comes out that the army > wanted this result in order to incite Israelis against the > Palestinians and to maintain support for the current operation. Just > as in Lebanon, also here the operation has no concrete purpose. It is > obvious that it cannot destroy Hamas, which will surely rearm itself > within a few months of the operation ending. So it all seems just like > an unleashing of random violence by the army for no obvious reason > other than crude revenge. The difference between the current operation > and the Lebanese one is that now the media is full of praises for the > Defense Minister and the army on the exact level of performance that > was shown in Lebanon. > > Collaborating democracy with imperialism > > How do we explain a situation where the Israeli masses have been > whipped up into such a state of mind of a vengeful and shortsighted > focus of their political worldview on "getting back" at the > Palestinians? What should not be underestimated here is the > psychological warfare the Israeli ruling elite has been waging against > the Israeli masses. The media, the military and the politicians have > been collaborating to create the impression that the rocket launching > from the Gaza Strip has made the surrounding Israeli settlements look > like a war zone. In actual fact, since 2004 to just before the recent > operation began, the number of Israelis killed by such rockets is less > than 15. To put things in perspective, the number of Israeli workers > that died because of accidents in their workplaces during this period, > was over 10 times that number. This number also resembles the number > of Israelis that die in traffic accidents in less than two weeks. So > if Barak is really so eager to protect Israeli lives through military > means, he should be mobilising the air force against the Israeli > bourgeoisie and the state bureaucrats responsible for transport safety > rather than against the Palestinian masses! > > The military is making the lives of the Israelis in the settlements > around Gaza as fearful as it can be. It is inducing a feeling of panic > among the public using every means including loud sirens, arbitrary > "defence" measures such as ducking and hiding, and forcing people into > bomb shelters, all in response to rockets that pose a minimal security > threat. All this horror show is designed with one aim in mind: to make > ordinary Israelis support the continuity of Israel's control over > Gaza, and thus to pressure or to help democratically elected > politicians to fall in line with imperialist interests. > > In the current economic crisis, control over Gaza is crucial to > Israeli imperialism more than ever since the first Palestinian > uprising in 1987. First of all, it satisfies the military's hunger for > state spending on arms. The military, and the politicians under its > influence, have proven themselves eager to do battle in any period in > which their fiscal prerogatives are at jeopardy. > > The most crucial thing for Israeli imperialism, however, is to > maintain stability for the "moderate" PLO in the West Bank which > provide Israel with numerous resources in terms of one of the cheapest > workforces in the world, a captive market that is dependent on > absorbing Israel's surpluses, and land and water resources that Israel > desperately needs. It requires the "pacifying" of Gaza in order to > make sure that the terrorism it hosts will not slide over into the > West Bank and undermine the PLO regime. > > This is not to say that Gaza is meaningless to Israel in its own > right. Despite its massive levels of poverty, the fact that the Gaza > masses depend on goods coming through Israel gives the Israeli > capitalists an advantage in terms of a captive market as well, that > is, as a long-term perspective. This may also explain why the Israeli > army has made much more of an effort to destroy the tunnels that > smuggle goods from Egypt than it has to destroy the rocket launchers > which were the formal reason for the operation in the first place! > > What does Hamas want? > > Unlike common-sense economic reductionism held by many on the Left, > terrorist groups don't simply grow out of poverty. Just as the PLO, > Hamas emerged from within the Palestinian petty bourgeoisie. They use > the masses and their plight mostly as a tool to achieve their class > interests which in this context usually include more lucrative jobs > and positions. After Israel co-opted the PLO into collaboration with > it in exchange for jobs created especially for the PLO members (the > jobs created under the cloak of the "Palestinian Authority"), Hamas > wanted its peace of the pie as well. > > Palestinians of the West Bank demonstrate their solidarity with the > people in Gaza > > It started to gather support from many frustrated Palestinians in the > face of the PLO's betrayal using, among other things, vengeful acts of > terrorism against Israelis. In parallel, it used similar tactics of > terrorism in order to lure Israel into negotiating with it, carrying > the risk of Israel's military, rather than diplomatic, retaliation. > > Just like Israel's ruling class, Hamas also benefits from the > occupation. It uses it in order to gather support by the same populist > means of violent rhetoric and actions used by the Israeli politicians. > It also enjoys political and economic benefits via its control over > smuggling commodities into the Strip: just like Israel, it to can > benefit from the captive market in Gaza. > > In such a situation it is puzzling why, some among the international > Left are tempted to take a supportive stance towards Hamas. They > usually state that despite Hamas' reactionary ideology, it should be > supported because of its "progressive fight against Israeli > imperialism". The folly of such an idea becomes obvious if we look at > Hamas from materialistic lines and ask ourselves what would happen if > Hamas were to win this conflict? Will it weaken Israeli imperialism as > the idealistic Leftists assume? A victory for Hamas could only mean > that Israel would be forced to negotiate with it and give it similar > political concessions as it gave to the PLO. The imperial relation of > Israel towards the Palestinians may take a different form, but it will > remain intact. Because under capitalism Palestine cannot be completely > cut off from Israel, and will always be dependent on it, a national > liberation movement that limits itself to struggling within the > confines of capitalism cannot go in any other direction. > > Furthermore, bourgeois or petit bourgeois national liberation leaders > have usually tended to push the proletariat in the oppressed nation > into accepting their leadership because they became aware of the > potential power of the workers. Such was the alliance between the > South African workers and the ANC leaders who brought down the > apartheid regime. But Here, Hamas has made very little effort to > create an alliance with the Palestinian workers. Until now it has > mostly just harassed their trade unions. Hamas thus have only the > power of terrorism and collisions with the Israeli army to get > concessions from Israel. Relying on this broken reed, its > "anti-imperialist" credentials appear as somewhat exaggerated. > > Is there a way out? > > We are entering yet another cycle of violence between Israel's ruling > class and Hamas. Such cycles began with Israel's opening up to the PLO > in 1994. Each cycle brings Israel to a more violent response. However, > the army has no intention of remaining entangled in the Strip for too > long. This operation may last a bit longer and be much more violent > than its predecessors because Barak's election campaign has to be > taken into consideration. Although it is also true that once it ends, > the operation always leaves behind the preconditions for the next > operation. > > Demonstration against the war in Amman (Jordan) > > The Zionist chauvinism that characterized the first days of the > operation is gradually being replaced by fear of yet another debacle > such as in Lebanon. Journalists are constantly asking political and > military leaders for the actual goals which this operation intends to > achieve. The answers are always vague and illusive, such as "to > radically change the array of deterrence". In that background, the > announcement of Barak on Saturday was especially alarming. He said > that the operation would take a long time and would have numerous > victims. With no one knowing what this operation is for, this holds a > puzzling future for the stability of the political system in Israel: > after the chauvinism fades away, the death toll will keep increasing > and many questions will be raised by the masses. > > To the dismay of the Israeli ruling class, thousands of Jews and > Palestinians came this Saturday to Tel Aviv for a mass demonstration > against the war (see video below). This is unprecedented. In the > Lebanese war it took two months of bloody entanglement for so many > protestors to show up. The protestors were constantly harassed by > Zionist counter-protests which show just how frightened they are of > the emerging protest movement in Israel. Small as it is now, the > Zionists are instinctively aware of the fact that it holds the only > real key to their downfall. > > As this website has repeated many times over, there cannot be a > solution within the confines of bourgeois politics to this or any > other major political conflict in the world. However, for the moment > Israel and Palestine are deprived of any other form of politics. As > long as this situation persists, these cycles of violence will > continue. We can be sure, though, that from the impossibility of a > solution to the situation under capitalism, new political forces are > bound to emerge on both sides. The nature of these new forces is > impossible to predict at this stage. But if they do not base > themselves on the revolutionary collaboration of Israeli and > Palestinian workers and poor against their mutual oppressors, no > progressive change can be forthcoming from within the > Israeli-Palestinian borders. > > Anti war demonstration in Tel Aviv > > > > ________________________________ > See also: > > Stop Israel's massacre in Gaza! by Walter Leon (December 30, 2008) > Israel: Tel Aviv municipal elections - a Pyrrhic victory for the Right > by Dekel Avshalom (November 17, 2008) > Three years after Israel's disengagement from Gaza: critical > reassessment by Dekel Avshalom (August 28, 2008) > Hamas and Israel agree on ceasefire by Dekel Avshalom (June 19, 2008) > Much ado about nothing: the Israeli "peace" talks with Syria by Dekel > Avshalom (May 28, 2008) > Israel turns 60 – where next for the Jewish and Palestinian peoples? > by Luke Wilson (May 16, 2008) > Israel storms Gaza: once again "peace" talks prepare war by Francesco > Merli (March 5, 2008) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kiccovich at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 15:30:07 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 02:00:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901080145x659aeb77p32e86e19a70d8f8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <640617.34877.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> even if there was an initial instigation (which i am not necessarily subscribing), don't you think the reaction is "a bit" out of proportion? --- On Thu, 8/1/09, Pawan Durani wrote: From: Pawan Durani Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel To: "indersalim" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, 8 January, 2009, 10:45 AM I was wondering how much Hamas is resposnsible for instigating this. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, indersalim wrote: > Israeli barbarism in Gaza > By Dekel Avshalom in Israel > Tuesday, 06 January 2009 > > In a surprise attack last week, Israel's air force infiltrated the > Gaza Strip and started blasting away. On Saturday, the air force was > accompanied by blasting from the navy and infiltration of tanks and > foot soldiers into the Strip causing death and destruction in > horrifying dimensions. Up to this time, the death toll for > Palestinians stands at 526 people, with 2500 injured. Israeli > officials, in particular Defense Minister Ehud Barak, keep reminding > us that "this is just the beginning". Israeli media is overjoyed in > stressing the claim that the "majority" of the victims are Hamas > soldiers. We do not exactly know how they define a "Hamas soldier", > but the fact that 107 of the murdered victims were children, makes it > very hard for us to believe such claims. This attack is overwhelming > in nature. It has been reported that since the 1967 war Israel had > never used such a massive air attack. > > After an Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip > > This attack was preceded by a series of deceptive manoeuvres on the > part of Israel in order to keep Hamas off guard. Israel kept up the > pretence of negotiations on the ceasefire and even allowed goods to > enter the Strip. This deception should not come as a surprise to > anyone who knows Ehud Barak's tactical mind. Just a short while ago, > Barak used the same deceptive tactics in order to lull some entrenched > Rightist Jewish settlers in Hebron before evacuating them by force. > > A statesman in such a high position does not normally use such tactics > unless he is desperate. And Barak's desperation is what lies behind > such an unprecedented attack. Barak apparently saved the attack for a > special moment in which he could improve his position in the polls for > the upcoming national elections. These polls consistently show that > the party under his leadership will receive its lowest number of votes > to date. > > For a long time Barak postponed the attack so it would not seem that > he was working under the pressure of his opponents. He wanted the > credit all for himself. Now, the Israeli masses, worked up by the > media, got what the media told them they wanted: revenge. Barak plans > to surf on a wave of Palestinian blood into a position of larger > number of seats in parliament. > > In many ways, this attack has similarities with the Lebanese fiasco in > 2006. It also is a staggering failure for Israel from the very moment > it was concocted in the twisted minds of Barak and the army generals. > Just as in Lebanon, also here the army has failed to stop the rocket > launching into Israel. Hamas launched hundreds of them > uninterruptedly, killing 3 Israelis in one day and wounding several > others. It would also not be surprising if it comes out that the army > wanted this result in order to incite Israelis against the > Palestinians and to maintain support for the current operation. Just > as in Lebanon, also here the operation has no concrete purpose. It is > obvious that it cannot destroy Hamas, which will surely rearm itself > within a few months of the operation ending. So it all seems just like > an unleashing of random violence by the army for no obvious reason > other than crude revenge. The difference between the current operation > and the Lebanese one is that now the media is full of praises for the > Defense Minister and the army on the exact level of performance that > was shown in Lebanon. > > Collaborating democracy with imperialism > > How do we explain a situation where the Israeli masses have been > whipped up into such a state of mind of a vengeful and shortsighted > focus of their political worldview on "getting back" at the > Palestinians? What should not be underestimated here is the > psychological warfare the Israeli ruling elite has been waging against > the Israeli masses. The media, the military and the politicians have > been collaborating to create the impression that the rocket launching > from the Gaza Strip has made the surrounding Israeli settlements look > like a war zone. In actual fact, since 2004 to just before the recent > operation began, the number of Israelis killed by such rockets is less > than 15. To put things in perspective, the number of Israeli workers > that died because of accidents in their workplaces during this period, > was over 10 times that number. This number also resembles the number > of Israelis that die in traffic accidents in less than two weeks. So > if Barak is really so eager to protect Israeli lives through military > means, he should be mobilising the air force against the Israeli > bourgeoisie and the state bureaucrats responsible for transport safety > rather than against the Palestinian masses! > > The military is making the lives of the Israelis in the settlements > around Gaza as fearful as it can be. It is inducing a feeling of panic > among the public using every means including loud sirens, arbitrary > "defence" measures such as ducking and hiding, and forcing people into > bomb shelters, all in response to rockets that pose a minimal security > threat. All this horror show is designed with one aim in mind: to make > ordinary Israelis support the continuity of Israel's control over > Gaza, and thus to pressure or to help democratically elected > politicians to fall in line with imperialist interests. > > In the current economic crisis, control over Gaza is crucial to > Israeli imperialism more than ever since the first Palestinian > uprising in 1987. First of all, it satisfies the military's hunger for > state spending on arms. The military, and the politicians under its > influence, have proven themselves eager to do battle in any period in > which their fiscal prerogatives are at jeopardy. > > The most crucial thing for Israeli imperialism, however, is to > maintain stability for the "moderate" PLO in the West Bank which > provide Israel with numerous resources in terms of one of the cheapest > workforces in the world, a captive market that is dependent on > absorbing Israel's surpluses, and land and water resources that Israel > desperately needs. It requires the "pacifying" of Gaza in order to > make sure that the terrorism it hosts will not slide over into the > West Bank and undermine the PLO regime. > > This is not to say that Gaza is meaningless to Israel in its own > right. Despite its massive levels of poverty, the fact that the Gaza > masses depend on goods coming through Israel gives the Israeli > capitalists an advantage in terms of a captive market as well, that > is, as a long-term perspective. This may also explain why the Israeli > army has made much more of an effort to destroy the tunnels that > smuggle goods from Egypt than it has to destroy the rocket launchers > which were the formal reason for the operation in the first place! > > What does Hamas want? > > Unlike common-sense economic reductionism held by many on the Left, > terrorist groups don't simply grow out of poverty. Just as the PLO, > Hamas emerged from within the Palestinian petty bourgeoisie. They use > the masses and their plight mostly as a tool to achieve their class > interests which in this context usually include more lucrative jobs > and positions. After Israel co-opted the PLO into collaboration with > it in exchange for jobs created especially for the PLO members (the > jobs created under the cloak of the "Palestinian Authority"), Hamas > wanted its peace of the pie as well. > > Palestinians of the West Bank demonstrate their solidarity with the > people in Gaza > > It started to gather support from many frustrated Palestinians in the > face of the PLO's betrayal using, among other things, vengeful acts of > terrorism against Israelis. In parallel, it used similar tactics of > terrorism in order to lure Israel into negotiating with it, carrying > the risk of Israel's military, rather than diplomatic, retaliation. > > Just like Israel's ruling class, Hamas also benefits from the > occupation. It uses it in order to gather support by the same populist > means of violent rhetoric and actions used by the Israeli politicians. > It also enjoys political and economic benefits via its control over > smuggling commodities into the Strip: just like Israel, it to can > benefit from the captive market in Gaza. > > In such a situation it is puzzling why, some among the international > Left are tempted to take a supportive stance towards Hamas. They > usually state that despite Hamas' reactionary ideology, it should be > supported because of its "progressive fight against Israeli > imperialism". The folly of such an idea becomes obvious if we look at > Hamas from materialistic lines and ask ourselves what would happen if > Hamas were to win this conflict? Will it weaken Israeli imperialism as > the idealistic Leftists assume? A victory for Hamas could only mean > that Israel would be forced to negotiate with it and give it similar > political concessions as it gave to the PLO. The imperial relation of > Israel towards the Palestinians may take a different form, but it will > remain intact. Because under capitalism Palestine cannot be completely > cut off from Israel, and will always be dependent on it, a national > liberation movement that limits itself to struggling within the > confines of capitalism cannot go in any other direction. > > Furthermore, bourgeois or petit bourgeois national liberation leaders > have usually tended to push the proletariat in the oppressed nation > into accepting their leadership because they became aware of the > potential power of the workers. Such was the alliance between the > South African workers and the ANC leaders who brought down the > apartheid regime. But Here, Hamas has made very little effort to > create an alliance with the Palestinian workers. Until now it has > mostly just harassed their trade unions. Hamas thus have only the > power of terrorism and collisions with the Israeli army to get > concessions from Israel. Relying on this broken reed, its > "anti-imperialist" credentials appear as somewhat exaggerated. > > Is there a way out? > > We are entering yet another cycle of violence between Israel's ruling > class and Hamas. Such cycles began with Israel's opening up to the PLO > in 1994. Each cycle brings Israel to a more violent response. However, > the army has no intention of remaining entangled in the Strip for too > long. This operation may last a bit longer and be much more violent > than its predecessors because Barak's election campaign has to be > taken into consideration. Although it is also true that once it ends, > the operation always leaves behind the preconditions for the next > operation. > > Demonstration against the war in Amman (Jordan) > > The Zionist chauvinism that characterized the first days of the > operation is gradually being replaced by fear of yet another debacle > such as in Lebanon. Journalists are constantly asking political and > military leaders for the actual goals which this operation intends to > achieve. The answers are always vague and illusive, such as "to > radically change the array of deterrence". In that background, the > announcement of Barak on Saturday was especially alarming. He said > that the operation would take a long time and would have numerous > victims. With no one knowing what this operation is for, this holds a > puzzling future for the stability of the political system in Israel: > after the chauvinism fades away, the death toll will keep increasing > and many questions will be raised by the masses. > > To the dismay of the Israeli ruling class, thousands of Jews and > Palestinians came this Saturday to Tel Aviv for a mass demonstration > against the war (see video below). This is unprecedented. In the > Lebanese war it took two months of bloody entanglement for so many > protestors to show up. The protestors were constantly harassed by > Zionist counter-protests which show just how frightened they are of > the emerging protest movement in Israel. Small as it is now, the > Zionists are instinctively aware of the fact that it holds the only > real key to their downfall. > > As this website has repeated many times over, there cannot be a > solution within the confines of bourgeois politics to this or any > other major political conflict in the world. However, for the moment > Israel and Palestine are deprived of any other form of politics. As > long as this situation persists, these cycles of violence will > continue. We can be sure, though, that from the impossibility of a > solution to the situation under capitalism, new political forces are > bound to emerge on both sides. The nature of these new forces is > impossible to predict at this stage. But if they do not base > themselves on the revolutionary collaboration of Israeli and > Palestinian workers and poor against their mutual oppressors, no > progressive change can be forthcoming from within the > Israeli-Palestinian borders. > > Anti war demonstration in Tel Aviv > > > > ________________________________ > See also: > > Stop Israel's massacre in Gaza! by Walter Leon (December 30, 2008) > Israel: Tel Aviv municipal elections - a Pyrrhic victory for the Right > by Dekel Avshalom (November 17, 2008) > Three years after Israel's disengagement from Gaza: critical > reassessment by Dekel Avshalom (August 28, 2008) > Hamas and Israel agree on ceasefire by Dekel Avshalom (June 19, 2008) > Much ado about nothing: the Israeli "peace" talks with Syria by Dekel > Avshalom (May 28, 2008) > Israel turns 60 – where next for the Jewish and Palestinian peoples? > by Luke Wilson (May 16, 2008) > Israel storms Gaza: once again "peace" talks prepare war by Francesco > Merli (March 5, 2008) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 15:43:39 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:43:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel In-Reply-To: <640617.34877.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70901080145x659aeb77p32e86e19a70d8f8e@mail.gmail.com> <640617.34877.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901080213m4b3cd60ag12a4b5e5cf5c08bb@mail.gmail.com> I agree . Loss of innocent lives need to be condemned. However the point i am trying to make is why there had been no hue and cry when hamas bombarded civilains living in Israel with rockets.And why repeated action by hamas doesnt make the Arabian world condemn it. I am not appreciating action or reaction ....but was amused at the double standards.Even civilains living in Israel deserve a terror free life. Regards pawan On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:30 PM, francesca recchia wrote: > even if there was an initial instigation (which i am not necessarily > subscribing), don't you think the reaction is "a bit" out of proportion? > > --- On *Thu, 8/1/09, Pawan Durani * wrote: > > From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In > Israel > To: "indersalim" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Thursday, 8 January, 2009, 10:45 AM > > > I was wondering how much Hamas is resposnsible for instigating this. > > > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, indersalim wrote: > > > Israeli barbarism in Gaza > > By Dekel Avshalom in Israel > > Tuesday, 06 January > 2009 > > > > In a surprise attack last week, Israel's air force infiltrated the > > Gaza Strip and started blasting away. On Saturday, the air force was > > accompanied by blasting from the navy and infiltration of tanks and > > foot soldiers into the Strip causing death and destruction in > > horrifying dimensions. Up to this time, the death toll for > > Palestinians stands at 526 people, with 2500 injured. Israeli > > officials, in particular Defense Minister Ehud Barak, keep reminding > > us that "this is just the beginning". Israeli media is overjoyed > in > > stressing the claim that the "majority" of the victims are Hamas > > soldiers. We do not exactly know how they define a "Hamas > soldier", > > but the fact that 107 of the murdered victims were children, makes it > > very hard for us to believe such claims. This attack is overwhelming > > in nature. It has been reported that since the > 1967 war Israel had > > never used such a massive air attack. > > > > After an Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip > > > > This attack was preceded by a series of deceptive manoeuvres on the > > part of Israel in order to keep Hamas off guard. Israel kept up the > > pretence of negotiations on the ceasefire and even allowed goods to > > enter the Strip. This deception should not come as a surprise to > > anyone who knows Ehud Barak's tactical mind. Just a short while ago, > > Barak used the same deceptive tactics in order to lull some entrenched > > Rightist Jewish settlers in Hebron before evacuating them by force. > > > > A statesman in such a high position does not normally use such tactics > > unless he is desperate. And Barak's desperation is what lies behind > > such an unprecedented attack. Barak apparently saved the attack for a > > special moment in which he could improve his position > in the polls for > > the upcoming national elections. These polls consistently show that > > the party under his leadership will receive its lowest number of votes > > to date. > > > > For a long time Barak postponed the attack so it would not seem that > > he was working under the pressure of his opponents. He wanted the > > credit all for himself. Now, the Israeli masses, worked up by the > > media, got what the media told them they wanted: revenge. Barak plans > > to surf on a wave of Palestinian blood into a position of larger > > number of seats in parliament. > > > > In many ways, this attack has similarities with the Lebanese fiasco in > > 2006. It also is a staggering failure for Israel from the very moment > > it was concocted in the twisted minds of Barak and the army generals. > > Just as in Lebanon, also here the army has failed to stop the rocket > > launching into Israel. > Hamas launched hundreds of them > > uninterruptedly, killing 3 Israelis in one day and wounding several > > others. It would also not be surprising if it comes out that the army > > wanted this result in order to incite Israelis against the > > Palestinians and to maintain support for the current operation. Just > > as in Lebanon, also here the operation has no concrete purpose. It is > > obvious that it cannot destroy Hamas, which will surely rearm itself > > within a few months of the operation ending. So it all seems just like > > an unleashing of random violence by the army for no obvious reason > > other than crude revenge. The difference between the current operation > > and the Lebanese one is that now the media is full of praises for the > > Defense Minister and the army on the exact level of performance that > > was shown in Lebanon. > > > > Collaborating democracy with > imperialism > > > > How do we explain a situation where the Israeli masses have been > > whipped up into such a state of mind of a vengeful and shortsighted > > focus of their political worldview on "getting back" at the > > Palestinians? What should not be underestimated here is the > > psychological warfare the Israeli ruling elite has been waging against > > the Israeli masses. The media, the military and the politicians have > > been collaborating to create the impression that the rocket launching > > from the Gaza Strip has made the surrounding Israeli settlements look > > like a war zone. In actual fact, since 2004 to just before the recent > > operation began, the number of Israelis killed by such rockets is less > > than 15. To put things in perspective, the number of Israeli workers > > that died because of accidents in their workplaces during this period, > > was over 10 times that > number. This number also resembles the number > > of Israelis that die in traffic accidents in less than two weeks. So > > if Barak is really so eager to protect Israeli lives through military > > means, he should be mobilising the air force against the Israeli > > bourgeoisie and the state bureaucrats responsible for transport safety > > rather than against the Palestinian masses! > > > > The military is making the lives of the Israelis in the settlements > > around Gaza as fearful as it can be. It is inducing a feeling of panic > > among the public using every means including loud sirens, arbitrary > > "defence" measures such as ducking and hiding, and forcing > people into > > bomb shelters, all in response to rockets that pose a minimal security > > threat. All this horror show is designed with one aim in mind: to make > > ordinary Israelis support the continuity of Israel's control over > > > Gaza, and thus to pressure or to help democratically elected > > politicians to fall in line with imperialist interests. > > > > In the current economic crisis, control over Gaza is crucial to > > Israeli imperialism more than ever since the first Palestinian > > uprising in 1987. First of all, it satisfies the military's hunger for > > state spending on arms. The military, and the politicians under its > > influence, have proven themselves eager to do battle in any period in > > which their fiscal prerogatives are at jeopardy. > > > > The most crucial thing for Israeli imperialism, however, is to > > maintain stability for the "moderate" PLO in the West Bank which > > provide Israel with numerous resources in terms of one of the cheapest > > workforces in the world, a captive market that is dependent on > > absorbing Israel's surpluses, and land and water resources that Israel > > desperately > needs. It requires the "pacifying" of Gaza in order > to > > make sure that the terrorism it hosts will not slide over into the > > West Bank and undermine the PLO regime. > > > > This is not to say that Gaza is meaningless to Israel in its own > > right. Despite its massive levels of poverty, the fact that the Gaza > > masses depend on goods coming through Israel gives the Israeli > > capitalists an advantage in terms of a captive market as well, that > > is, as a long-term perspective. This may also explain why the Israeli > > army has made much more of an effort to destroy the tunnels that > > smuggle goods from Egypt than it has to destroy the rocket launchers > > which were the formal reason for the operation in the first place! > > > > What does Hamas want? > > > > Unlike common-sense economic reductionism held by many on the Left, > > terrorist groups don't simply grow out of > poverty. Just as the PLO, > > Hamas emerged from within the Palestinian petty bourgeoisie. They use > > the masses and their plight mostly as a tool to achieve their class > > interests which in this context usually include more lucrative jobs > > and positions. After Israel co-opted the PLO into collaboration with > > it in exchange for jobs created especially for the PLO members (the > > jobs created under the cloak of the "Palestinian Authority"), > Hamas > > wanted its peace of the pie as well. > > > > Palestinians of the West Bank demonstrate their solidarity with the > > people in Gaza > > > > It started to gather support from many frustrated Palestinians in the > > face of the PLO's betrayal using, among other things, vengeful acts of > > terrorism against Israelis. In parallel, it used similar tactics of > > terrorism in order to lure Israel into negotiating with it, carrying > > > the risk of Israel's military, rather than diplomatic, retaliation. > > > > Just like Israel's ruling class, Hamas also benefits from the > > occupation. It uses it in order to gather support by the same populist > > means of violent rhetoric and actions used by the Israeli politicians. > > It also enjoys political and economic benefits via its control over > > smuggling commodities into the Strip: just like Israel, it to can > > benefit from the captive market in Gaza. > > > > In such a situation it is puzzling why, some among the international > > Left are tempted to take a supportive stance towards Hamas. They > > usually state that despite Hamas' reactionary ideology, it should be > > supported because of its "progressive fight against Israeli > > imperialism". The folly of such an idea becomes obvious if we look at > > Hamas from materialistic lines and ask ourselves what would happen > if > > Hamas were to win this conflict? Will it weaken Israeli imperialism as > > the idealistic Leftists assume? A victory for Hamas could only mean > > that Israel would be forced to negotiate with it and give it similar > > political concessions as it gave to the PLO. The imperial relation of > > Israel towards the Palestinians may take a different form, but it will > > remain intact. Because under capitalism Palestine cannot be completely > > cut off from Israel, and will always be dependent on it, a national > > liberation movement that limits itself to struggling within the > > confines of capitalism cannot go in any other direction. > > > > Furthermore, bourgeois or petit bourgeois national liberation leaders > > have usually tended to push the proletariat in the oppressed nation > > into accepting their leadership because they became aware of the > > potential power of the workers. Such was > the alliance between the > > South African workers and the ANC leaders who brought down the > > apartheid regime. But Here, Hamas has made very little effort to > > create an alliance with the Palestinian workers. Until now it has > > mostly just harassed their trade unions. Hamas thus have only the > > power of terrorism and collisions with the Israeli army to get > > concessions from Israel. Relying on this broken reed, its > > "anti-imperialist" credentials appear as somewhat exaggerated. > > > > Is there a way out? > > > > We are entering yet another cycle of violence between Israel's ruling > > class and Hamas. Such cycles began with Israel's opening up to the PLO > > in 1994. Each cycle brings Israel to a more violent response. However, > > the army has no intention of remaining entangled in the Strip for too > > long. This operation may last a bit longer and be much more violent > > > than its predecessors because Barak's election campaign has to be > > taken into consideration. Although it is also true that once it ends, > > the operation always leaves behind the preconditions for the next > > operation. > > > > Demonstration against the war in Amman (Jordan) > > > > The Zionist chauvinism that characterized the first days of the > > operation is gradually being replaced by fear of yet another debacle > > such as in Lebanon. Journalists are constantly asking political and > > military leaders for the actual goals which this operation intends to > > achieve. The answers are always vague and illusive, such as "to > > radically change the array of deterrence". In that background, the > > announcement of Barak on Saturday was especially alarming. He said > > that the operation would take a long time and would have numerous > > victims. With no one knowing what this operation is > for, this holds a > > puzzling future for the stability of the political system in Israel: > > after the chauvinism fades away, the death toll will keep increasing > > and many questions will be raised by the masses. > > > > To the dismay of the Israeli ruling class, thousands of Jews and > > Palestinians came this Saturday to Tel Aviv for a mass demonstration > > against the war (see video below). This is unprecedented. In the > > Lebanese war it took two months of bloody entanglement for so many > > protestors to show up. The protestors were constantly harassed by > > Zionist counter-protests which show just how frightened they are of > > the emerging protest movement in Israel. Small as it is now, the > > Zionists are instinctively aware of the fact that it holds the only > > real key to their downfall. > > > > As this website has repeated many times over, there cannot be a > > solution > within the confines of bourgeois politics to this or any > > other major political conflict in the world. However, for the moment > > Israel and Palestine are deprived of any other form of politics. As > > long as this situation persists, these cycles of violence will > > continue. We can be sure, though, that from the impossibility of a > > solution to the situation under capitalism, new political forces are > > bound to emerge on both sides. The nature of these new forces is > > impossible to predict at this stage. But if they do not base > > themselves on the revolutionary collaboration of Israeli and > > Palestinian workers and poor against their mutual oppressors, no > > progressive change can be forthcoming from within the > > Israeli-Palestinian borders. > > > > Anti war demonstration in Tel Aviv > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > See also: > > > > > Stop Israel's massacre in Gaza! by Walter Leon (December 30, 2008) > > Israel: Tel Aviv municipal elections - a Pyrrhic victory for the Right > > by Dekel Avshalom (November 17, 2008) > > Three years after Israel's disengagement from Gaza: critical > > reassessment by Dekel Avshalom (August 28, 2008) > > Hamas and Israel agree on ceasefire by Dekel Avshalom (June 19, 2008) > > Much ado about nothing: the Israeli "peace" talks with Syria by > Dekel > > Avshalom (May 28, 2008) > > Israel turns 60 – where next for the Jewish and Palestinian peoples? > > by Luke Wilson (May 16, 2008) > > Israel storms Gaza: once again "peace" talks prepare war by > Francesco > > Merli (March 5, 2008) > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 17:25:15 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:25:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An Article - Why Support Israel Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901080355k1fa894cag8eefe66d75b32494@mail.gmail.com> http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Why_Support_Israel$.asp The Muslim world is mystified as to why Americans support the existence of Israel. Some critics in the Middle East excuse "the American people," while castigating our government. In their eyes, our official policy could not really reflect grassroots opinion. Others misinformed spin elaborate conspiracy theories involving the power of joint Mossad-CIA plots, Old Testament fundamentalists, international bankers, and Jewish control of Hollywood, the media, and the U.S. Congress. But why does an overwhelming majority of Americans (according to most polls, between 60 and 70% of the electorate) support Israel -- and more rather than less so after September 11? The answer is found in values -- not in brainwashing or because of innate affinity for a particular race or creed. Israel is a democracy. Its opponents are not. Much misinformation abounds on this issue. Libya, Syria, and Iraq are dictatorships, far more brutal than even those in Egypt or Pakistan. But even "parliaments" in Iran, Morocco, Jordan, and on the West Bank are not truly and freely democratic. In all of them, candidates are either screened, preselected, or under coercion. Daily television and newspapers are subject to restrictions and censorship; "elected" leaders are not open to public audit and censure. There is a reason, after all, why in the last decade Americans have dealt with Mr. Netanyahu, Barak, and Sharon -- and no one other than Mr. Arafat, the Husseins in Jordan, the Assads in Syria, Mr. Mubarak, and who knows what in Lebanon, Algeria, and Afghanistan. Death, not voters, brings changes of rule in the Arab world. The Arab street pronounces that it is the responsibility of the United States -- who gives money to Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, Afghanistan and others, has troops stationed in the Gulf, and buys oil from the Muslim world -- to use its influence to instill democracies. They forget that sadly these days we rarely have such power to engineer sweeping constitutional reform; that true freedom requires the blood and courage of native patriots -- a Washington, Jefferson, or Thomas Paine -- not outside nations; and that democracy demands some prior traditions of cultural tolerance, widespread literacy, and free markets. Moreover, we give Israel billions as well -- but have little control whether they wish to elect a Rabin or a Sharon. Israel is also secular. The ultra-Orthodox do not run the government unless they can garner a majority of voters. Americans have always harbored suspicion of anyone who nods violently when reading Holy Scripture -- whether in *madrassas*, near the Wailing Wall, or in the local Church of the Redeemer down the street. In Israel, however, Americans detect that free speech and liberality of custom and religion are more ubiquitous than, say, in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Palestine -- and so surmise that the Jewish state is more the creation of European émigrés than of indigenous Middle-Eastern fundamentalists. *Pluralism exists in Israel, rarely so in the Arabic world.* Pluralism exists in Israel, rarely so in the Arabic world. We see an Israeli peace party, spirited debate between Left and Right, and both homegrown damnation and advocacy for the settlers outside the 1967 borders. Judaism is fissured by a variety of splinter orthodoxies without gunfights. There are openly agnostic and atheistic Israeli Jews who enjoy influence in Israeli culture and politics. In theory, such parallels exist in the Arab world, but in actuality rarely so. We know that heretical mullahs are heretical more often in London, Paris, or New York -- not in Teheran or among the Taliban. No Palestinian politician would go on CNN and call for Mr. Arafat's resignation; his opposition rests among bombers, not in raucous televised debates. Israeli newspapers and television reflect a diversity of views, from rabid Zionism to almost suicidal pacifism. There are Arab-Israeli legislators -- and plenty of Jewish intellectuals who openly write and broadcast in opposition to the particular government of the day. Is that liberality ever really true in Palestine? Could a Palestinian, Egyptian, or Syrian novelist write something favorable about Golda Meir, hostile to Mr. Assad or Mubarak, or craft a systematic satire about Islam? Past experience suggests such iconoclasts and would-be critics might suffer stones and *fatwas* rather than mere ripostes in the letters to the editor of the local newspapers. Palestinian spokesmen are quite vocal and unbridled on American television, but most of us -- who ourselves instinctively welcome self-criticism and reflection -- sense that such garrulousness and freewheeling invective are is reserved only for us, rarely for Mr. Arafat's authority. Americans also see ingenuity from Israel, both technological and cultural -- achievement that is not reflective of genes, but rather of the culture of freedom. There are thousands of brilliant and highly educated Palestinians. But in the conditions of the Middle East, they have little opportunity for free expression or to open a business without government bribe or tribal payoff. The result is that even American farmers in strange places like central California are always amazed by drip-irrigation products, sophisticated water pumps, and ingenious agricultural appurtenances that are created and produced in Israel. So far we have seen few trademarked in Algeria, Afghanistan, or Qatar. There is also an affinity between the Israeli and Western militaries that transcends mere official exchanges and arms sales. We do not see goose-stepping soldiers in Haifa as we do in Baghdad. Nor are there in Tel-Aviv hooded troops with plastic bombs strapped to their sides on parade. Nor do Israeli presidents wear plastic sunglasses, carry pistols to the U.N., or have chests full of cheap and tawdry metals. Young rank-and-file Israeli men and women enjoy a familiarity among one another, and their officers are more akin to our own army than to the Republican Guard, Hamas, or Islamic Jihad. The Israelis also far better reflect the abject lethality of the Western way of war. Here perhaps lies the greatest misunderstanding of military history on the part of the Arab world. The so-called Islamic street believes that sheer numbers and territory -- a billion Muslims, a century of oil reserves, and millions of square miles -- should mysteriously result in lethal armies. History teaches us that war is rarely that simple. Instead, the degree militaries are westernized -- technology that is a fruit of secular research, group discipline arising from consensual societies, logistical efficiency that derives from capitalism, and flexibility that is the dividend from constant public audit and private individualism -- determines victory, despite disadvantages in numbers, natural resources, individual genius, or logistics. We hear a quite boring refrain from enraged Palestinians of "Apache helicopters" and "F-16s". But in the Lebanese war of the early 1980s we saw what happens in dogfights between advanced Israel and Syrian jets in the same manner Saddam's sophisticated weapons were rendered junk in days by our counterparts. So Israel's power is more the result of a system, not merely of imported hardware. The Arab world does not have a creative arms industry; Israel does -- whether that be ingenious footpads to wear while detecting mines or drone aircraft that fly at night over Mr. Arafat's house. If the Palestinians truly wished military parity, then the Arab world should create their own research programs immune to religious or political censure, and ensure that students are mastering calculus rather than the Koran. Nor are Americans ignorant of the recent past. The United States was not a colonial power in the Middle East, but developed ties there as a reaction to, not as a catalyst of, its complex history. Israel was instead both created and abandoned by Europeans. The 20th century taught Americans that some Europeans would annihilate millions of Jews -- and others prove unwilling or unable to stop such a holocaust. We sensed that the first three wars in the Middle East were not fought to return the West Bank, but to finish off what Hitler could not. And we suspect now that, while hundreds of millions of Arabs would accept a permanent Israel inside its 1967 borders, a few million would not -- and those few would not necessarily be restrained by those who did accept the Jewish state. Somehow we in the American heartland sense that Israel -- whether its GNP, free society, or liberal press -- is a wound to the psyche, not a threat to the material condition, of the Arab world. Israel did not murder the Kurds or Shiites. It does not butcher Islam's children in Algeria. Nor did it kill over a million on the Iranian-Iraqi border -- much less blow apart Afghanistan, erase from the face of the earth entire villages and their living inhabitants in Syria, or turn parts of Cairo into literal sewers. Yet both the victims and the perpetrators of those crimes against Muslims answer "Israel" to every problem. But Americans, more than any people in history, live in the present and future, not the past, loath scapegoating and the cult of victimization, and are tired of those, here and abroad, who increasingly blame others for their own self-induced pathologies. #Europe's policy in the Middle East is based on little more than naked self-interest. The Europeans are quite cynical about all this. Tel Aviv, much better than Cairo or Damascus, reflects the liberal values of Paris or London. Yet the Europeans rarely these days do anything that is not calibrated in terms of gaining money or avoiding trouble -- and in that sense for them Israel is simply a very bad deal. All the sophisticated op-eds about the shuffling of Mr. Jack Straw about Islamic liberalism cannot hide the fact that Europe's policy in the Middle East is based on little more than naked self-interest. If Israel were wiped out tomorrow, Europeans would ask for a brief minute of silence, then sigh relief, and without a blink roll up their sleeves to get down to trade and business. Our seemingly idiosyncratic support for Israel, then, also says something about ourselves rather than just our ally. In brutal Realpolitik, the Europeans are right that there is nothing much to gain from aiding Israel. Helping a few million costs us the friendship of nearly a billion. An offended Israel will snub us; but some in an irate Muslim world engineered slaughter in Manhattan. Despite our periodic tiffs, we don't fear that any frenzied Israelis will hijack an American plane or murder Marines in their sleep. No Jews are screaming at us on the evening news that we give billions collectively to Mubarak, the Jordanians, and Mr. Arafat. And Israelis lack the cash reserves of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and they do not go on buying sprees in the U.S. or import whole industries from America. So the reason we each support whom we do says something about both Europe and the United States. Instead of railing at America, Palestinians should instead see in our policy toward Israel their future hope, rather than present despair -- since it is based on disinterested values that can evolve, rather than on race, religion, or language that often cannot. If the Palestinians really wished to even the score with the Israelis in American eyes, then regular elections, a free press, an open and honest economy, and religious tolerance alone would do what suicide bombers and a duplicitous terrorist leader could not. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 17:37:15 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:37:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] With Hamas, Hitlerism comes to the Middle East wearing the mask of anti-Hitlerism Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901080407k7c38f0ccj7bb82bc77ff7ff8d@mail.gmail.com> * http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjRiODVjOGExYjM5YjhhMmQ1YTMzMzkzYTZlNWY0Njg=&w=MQ ==* *'G*o back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!" This is what one young woman thought passed for acceptable discourse during an anti-Israel rally last week in, of all places, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Other chants were similarly unlovely. You can watch it on YouTube if you like But why bother? The Fort Lauderdale outburst is just one window on the upside-down world of Israel hatred. Across the Islamic world, and in too many points West, it is still considered a penetrating and poignant insight to call Zionists the "new Nazis." For instance, in Sunday's *Gulf News*, Mohammad Abdullah al Mutawa, a sociology professor at United Arab Emirates University, penned an essay titled "Zionists are the new Nazis." He began: "Today, the whole world stands as a witness to the fact that the Nazi Holocaust was a mere lie, which was devised by the Zionists to blackmail humanity." At a Saturday protest in New York against Israel's military assault on Gaza, some carried signs that read: "Israel: The Fourth Reich," "Holocaust by Holocaust Survivors," "Stop Israel's Holocaust," "Holocaust in Gaza" and "Stop the Zionist Genocide in Gaza." Type "Israel" and "Nazi" into any news search engine and you'll be rewarded, or punished, with a bounty of such statements from just the last week or so. Gaza is the new Auschwitz, the Israeli Defense Forces are SS troops ... I find myself tempted to simply write "et cetera" because it's all so familiar by now. But to do that is to dismiss, and therefore accept, such grotesqueries as trivialities, when in fact such charges are deeply revealing — just not about Israel. First, let us note that if supposedly all-powerful Israel is dedicated to exterminating the Palestinian people, it is doing a bad job. The Palestinian population has only grown since 1948. There are more Arab citizens living in Israel proper today than there were in all of Palestine the year Israel was founded. Perhaps one reason Israel fails at genocide is that it isn't interested in genocide? That would explain why Israel warned thousands of Gazans by cell phone to leave homes near Hamas rocket stockpiles. It would clarify why, even amid all-out war, it offers aid to enemy civilians. It would even illuminate the otherwise mysterious clamor from Israelis for a viable "peace partner." But no. For millions of Israel haters, the more plausible explanation is that the "defiant" Palestinians have miraculously survived Israel's determination to wipe them out. Meanwhile, calls for the complete extermination of Israel are routine. The Hamas charter, invoking the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as justification, demands the destruction of Israel. Hamas exists solely because it is dedicated to the complete obliteration of the "Zionist entity." Remove that "principle" and Hamas is meaningless. A sick mixture of Holocaust envy and Holocaust denial is the defining spirit of Hamas. Indeed, Holocaust denial passes for a scholarly pursuit not just in Gaza but throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world. Meanwhile, calls for the complete extermination of Israel are routine. The Hamas charter, invoking the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as justification, demands the destruction of Israel. Hamas exists solely because it is dedicated to the complete obliteration of the "Zionist entity." Remove that "principle" and Hamas is meaningless. A sick mixture of Holocaust envy and Holocaust denial is the defining spirit of Hamas. Indeed, Holocaust denial passes for a scholarly pursuit not just in Gaza but throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world. *— Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online and the author of **Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning**. * From ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de Thu Jan 8 18:43:23 2009 From: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Britta Ohm) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:13:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] With Hamas, Hitlerism comes to the Middle East wearing the mask of anti-Hitlerism In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901080407k7c38f0ccj7bb82bc77ff7ff8d@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70901080407k7c38f0ccj7bb82bc77ff7ff8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <159E0C8A-FA32-4D98-BED5-F068B2AB98F4@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Oh, what utter rubbish, Pawan. The relations of power and justice are so unmistakably clear that falling for this whole 'Hitlerism'-trope speaks of nothing but the readiness to buy the dominant discourse - as usual, I feel tempted to write... How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions Avi Shlaim The Guardian, Wednesday 7 January 2009 The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question. I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times. Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence. Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era. Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace. They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of the hated occupation. In Gaza, the Jewish settlers numbered only 8,000 in 2005 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25% of the territory, 40% of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources. Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the majority of the local population lived in abject poverty and unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than $2 a day. The living conditions in the strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism. In August 2005 a Likud government headed by Ariel Sharon staged a unilateral Israeli pullout from Gaza, withdrawing all 8,000 settlers and destroying the houses and farms they had left behind. Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement, conducted an effective campaign to drive the Israelis out of Gaza. The withdrawal was a humiliation for the Israeli Defence Forces. To the world, Sharon presented the withdrawal from Gaza as a contribution to peace based on a two-state solution. But in the year after, another 12,000 Israelis settled on the West Bank, further reducing the scope for an independent Palestinian state. Land-grabbing and peace-making are simply incompatible. Israel had a choice and it chose land over peace. The real purpose behind the move was to redraw unilaterally the borders of Greater Israel by incorporating the main settlement blocs on the West Bank to the state of Israel. Withdrawal from Gaza was thus not a prelude to a peace deal with the Palestinian Authority but a prelude to further Zionist expansion on the West Bank. It was a unilateral Israeli move undertaken in what was seen, mistakenly in my view, as an Israeli national interest. Anchored in a fundamental rejection of the Palestinian national identity, the withdrawal from Gaza was part of a long-term effort to deny the Palestinian people any independent political existence on their land. Israel's settlers were withdrawn but Israeli soldiers continued to control all access to the Gaza Strip by land, sea and air. Gaza was converted overnight into an open-air prison. From this point on, the Israeli air force enjoyed unrestricted freedom to drop bombs, to make sonic booms by flying low and breaking the sound barrier, and to terrorise the hapless inhabitants of this prison. Israel likes to portray itself as an island of democracy in a sea of authoritarianism. Yet Israel has never in its entire history done anything to promote democracy on the Arab side and has done a great deal to undermine it. Israel has a long history of secret collaboration with reactionary Arab regimes to suppress Palestinian nationalism. Despite all the handicaps, the Palestinian people succeeded in building the only genuine democracy in the Arab world with the possible exception of Lebanon. In January 2006, free and fair elections for the Legislative Council of the Palestinian Authority brought to power a Hamas-led government. Israel, however, refused to recognise the democratically elected government, claiming that Hamas is purely and simply a terrorist organisation. America and the EU shamelessly joined Israel in ostracising and demonising the Hamas government and in trying to bring it down by withholding tax revenues and foreign aid. A surreal situation thus developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but against the occupied, not against the oppressor but against the oppressed. As so often in the tragic history of Palestine, the victims were blamed for their own misfortunes. Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy. But the simple truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. They are no better but they are no worse than any other national group. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own on which to live in freedom and dignity. Like other radical movements, Hamas began to moderate its political programme following its rise to power. From the ideological rejectionism of its charter, it began to move towards pragmatic accommodation of a two-state solution. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a national unity government that was ready to negotiate a long- term ceasefire with Israel. Israel, however, refused to negotiate with a government that included Hamas. It continued to play the old game of divide and rule between rival Palestinian factions. In the late 1980s, Israel had supported the nascent Hamas in order to weaken Fatah, the secular nationalist movement led by Yasser Arafat. Now Israel began to encourage the corrupt and pliant Fatah leaders to overthrow their religious political rivals and recapture power. Aggressive American neoconservatives participated in the sinister plot to instigate a Palestinian civil war. Their meddling was a major factor in the collapse of the national unity government and in driving Hamas to seize power in Gaza in June 2007 to pre-empt a Fatah coup. The war unleashed by Israel on Gaza on 27 December was the culmination of a series of clashes and confrontations with the Hamas government. In a broader sense, however, it is a war between Israel and the Palestinian people, because the people had elected the party to power. The declared aim of the war is to weaken Hamas and to intensify the pressure until its leaders agree to a new ceasefire on Israel's terms. The undeclared aim is to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza are seen by the world simply as a humanitarian problem and thus to derail their struggle for independence and statehood. The timing of the war was determined by political expediency. A general election is scheduled for 10 February and, in the lead-up to the election, all the main contenders are looking for an opportunity to prove their toughness. The army top brass had been champing at the bit to deliver a crushing blow to Hamas in order to remove the stain left on their reputation by the failure of the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon in July 2006. Israel's cynical leaders could also count on apathy and impotence of the pro-western Arab regimes and on blind support from President Bush in the twilight of his term in the White House. Bush readily obliged by putting all the blame for the crisis on Hamas, vetoing proposals at the UN Security Council for an immediate ceasefire and issuing Israel with a free pass to mount a ground invasion of Gaza. As always, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real victim. This is indeed a conflict between David and Goliath but the Biblical image has been inverted - a small and defenceless Palestinian David faces a heavily armed, merciless and overbearing Israeli Goliath. The resort to brute military force is accompanied, as always, by the shrill rhetoric of victimhood and a farrago of self-pity overlaid with self- righteousness. In Hebrew this is known as the syndrome of bokhim ve- yorim, "crying and shooting". To be sure, Hamas is not an entirely innocent party in this conflict. Denied the fruit of its electoral victory and confronted with an unscrupulous adversary, it has resorted to the weapon of the weak - terror. Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching Qassam rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza until Egypt brokered a six-month ceasefire last June. The damage caused by these primitive rockets is minimal but the psychological impact is immense, prompting the public to demand protection from its government. Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate. The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children. Whatever the numbers, killing civilians is wrong. This rule applies to Israel as much as it does to Hamas, but Israel's entire record is one of unbridled and unremitting brutality towards the inhabitants of Gaza. Israel also maintained the blockade of Gaza after the ceasefire came into force which, in the view of the Hamas leaders, amounted to a violation of the agreement. During the ceasefire, Israel prevented any exports from leaving the strip in clear violation of a 2005 accord, leading to a sharp drop in employment opportunities. Officially, 49.1% of the population is unemployed. At the same time, Israel restricted drastically the number of trucks carrying food, fuel, cooking-gas canisters, spare parts for water and sanitation plants, and medical supplies to Gaza. It is difficult to see how starving and freezing the civilians of Gaza could protect the people on the Israeli side of the border. But even if it did, it would still be immoral, a form of collective punishment that is strictly forbidden by international humanitarian law. The brutality of Israel's soldiers is fully matched by the mendacity of its spokesmen. Eight months before launching the current war on Gaza, Israel established a National Information Directorate. The core messages of this directorate to the media are that Hamas broke the ceasefire agreements; that Israel's objective is the defence of its population; and that Israel's forces are taking the utmost care not to hurt innocent civilians. Israel's spin doctors have been remarkably successful in getting this message across. But, in essence, their propaganda is a pack of lies. A wide gap separates the reality of Israel's actions from the rhetoric of its spokesmen. It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It di d so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza by turning the people against their rulers. And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year-old blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza, now 1.5 million, to the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe. The Biblical injunction of an eye for an eye is savage enough. But Israel's insane offensive against Gaza seems to follow the logic of an eye for an eyelash. After eight days of bombing, with a death toll of more than 400 Palestinians and four Israelis, the gung-ho cabinet ordered a land invasion of Gaza the consequences of which are incalculable. No amount of military escalation can buy Israel immunity from rocket attacks from the military wing of Hamas. Despite all the death and destruction that Israel has inflicted on them, they kept up their resistance and they kept firing their rockets. This is a movement that glorifies victimhood and martyrdom. There is simply no military solution to the conflict between the two communities. The problem with Israel's concept of security is that it denies even the most elementary security to the other community. The only way for Israel to achieve security is not through shooting but through talks with Hamas, which has repeatedly declared its readiness to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with the Jewish state within its pre-1967 borders for 20, 30, or even 50 years. Israel has rejected this offer for the same reason it spurned the Arab League peace plan of 2002, which is still on the table: it involves concessions and compromises. This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so. • Avi Shlaim is a professor of international relations at the University of Oxford and the author of The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World and of Lion of Jordan: King Hussein's Life in War and Peace. guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009 Am 08.01.2009 um 13:07 schrieb Pawan Durani: > * > http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjRiODVjOGExYjM5YjhhMmQ1YTMzMzkzYTZlNWY0Njg=&w=MQ > ==* > > *'G*o back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!" > > This is what one young woman thought passed for acceptable discourse > during > an anti-Israel rally last week in, of all places, Fort Lauderdale, > Fla. > Other chants were similarly unlovely. You can watch it on YouTube if > you > like But why bother? The Fort Lauderdale outburst is just one window > on the > upside-down world of Israel hatred. Across the Islamic world, and in > too > many points West, it is still considered a penetrating and poignant > insight > to call Zionists the "new Nazis." For instance, in Sunday's *Gulf > News*, > Mohammad Abdullah al Mutawa, a sociology professor at United Arab > Emirates > University, penned an essay titled "Zionists are the new Nazis." He > began: > "Today, the whole world stands as a witness to the fact that the Nazi > Holocaust was a mere lie, which was devised by the Zionists to > blackmail > humanity." > > At a Saturday protest in New York against Israel's military assault > on Gaza, > some carried signs that read: "Israel: The Fourth Reich," "Holocaust > by > Holocaust Survivors," "Stop Israel's Holocaust," "Holocaust in Gaza" > and > "Stop the Zionist Genocide in Gaza." > > Type "Israel" and "Nazi" into any news search engine and you'll be > rewarded, > or punished, with a bounty of such statements from just the last > week or so. > Gaza is the new Auschwitz, the Israeli Defense Forces are SS > troops ... I > find myself tempted to simply write "et cetera" because it's all so > familiar > by now. But to do that is to dismiss, and therefore accept, such > grotesqueries as trivialities, when in fact such charges are deeply > revealing — just not about Israel. > > First, let us note that if supposedly all-powerful Israel is > dedicated to > exterminating the Palestinian people, it is doing a bad job. The > Palestinian > population has only grown since 1948. There are more Arab citizens > living in > Israel proper today than there were in all of Palestine the year > Israel was > founded. > > Perhaps one reason Israel fails at genocide is that it isn't > interested in > genocide? That would explain why Israel warned thousands of Gazans > by cell > phone to leave homes near Hamas rocket stockpiles. It would clarify > why, > even amid all-out war, it offers aid to enemy civilians. It would even > illuminate the otherwise mysterious clamor from Israelis for a > viable "peace > partner." > > But no. For millions of Israel haters, the more plausible > explanation is > that the "defiant" Palestinians have miraculously survived Israel's > determination to wipe them out. > > Meanwhile, calls for the complete extermination of Israel are > routine. The > Hamas charter, invoking the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of > Zion" as > justification, demands the destruction of Israel. Hamas exists solely > because it is dedicated to the complete obliteration of the "Zionist > entity." Remove that "principle" and Hamas is meaningless. > > A sick mixture of Holocaust envy and Holocaust denial is the > defining spirit > of Hamas. Indeed, Holocaust denial passes for a scholarly pursuit > not just > in Gaza but throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world. > Meanwhile, calls for the complete extermination of Israel are > routine. The > Hamas charter, invoking the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of > Zion" as > justification, demands the destruction of Israel. Hamas exists solely > because it is dedicated to the complete obliteration of the "Zionist > entity." Remove that "principle" and Hamas is meaningless. > > A sick mixture of Holocaust envy and Holocaust denial is the > defining spirit > of Hamas. Indeed, Holocaust denial passes for a scholarly pursuit > not just > in Gaza but throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world. > *— Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online and the > author of **Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left > from > Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning**. > * > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ___________________ Britta Ohm Postdoc University of Zurich UPRP Asia and Europe Office: Scheuchzerstr. 21 8006 Zürich Switzerland tel. +41-(0)44-634 49 61 fax. +41-(0)44-634 49 21 britta.ohm at access.uzh.ch www.asienundeuropa.uzh.ch Home: Solmsstr. 36 10961 Berlin Germany +49-(0)30-695 07 155 ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de Ekkehardstr. 18 8006 Zürich Switzerland +41-(0)43-2689077 From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Jan 8 20:57:40 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:27:40 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel In-Reply-To: <640617.34877.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6b79f1a70901080145x659aeb77p32e86e19a70d8f8e@mail.gmail.com> <640617.34877.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dekel Avshalom's claim that more Israelis have died in work place mishaps & traffic accidents then by the Hamas rockets sounds bizzare. Instead of inflamming passions further,it is time for the world community to side with the human sufferings in the conflict zone & call for an immediate cease fire that ensures security of both Palestinians as well as the Israelis. Palestinian cause has suffered immensely because of the continued belligerence of Hamas against the very existence of Israel.Knowing well the military might of Israel & expected retalliation,Hamas should have been persuaded not to call off the cease fire & launch provocative rocket attacks against Israel.It may have been violated but there was no war. With the hope that peace will return in the middle east & soon. LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 02:00:07 -0800> From: kiccovich at yahoo.com> To: indersalim at gmail.com; pawan.durani at gmail.com> CC: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel> > even if there was an initial instigation (which i am not necessarily subscribing), don't you think the reaction is "a bit" out of proportion?> > --- On Thu, 8/1/09, Pawan Durani wrote:> From: Pawan Durani > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Israeli Barbarism In Gaza By Avshalom In Israel> To: "indersalim" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net> Date: Thursday, 8 January, 2009, 10:45 AM> > I was wondering how much Hamas is resposnsible for instigating this.> > > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, indersalim wrote:> > > Israeli barbarism in Gaza> > By Dekel Avshalom in Israel> > Tuesday, 06 January 2009> >> > In a surprise attack last week, Israel's air force infiltrated the> > Gaza Strip and started blasting away. On Saturday, the air force was> > accompanied by blasting from the navy and infiltration of tanks and> > foot soldiers into the Strip causing death and destruction in> > horrifying dimensions. Up to this time, the death toll for> > Palestinians stands at 526 people, with 2500 injured. Israeli> > officials, in particular Defense Minister Ehud Barak, keep reminding> > us that "this is just the beginning". Israeli media is overjoyed> in> > stressing the claim that the "majority" of the victims are Hamas> > soldiers. We do not exactly know how they define a "Hamas> soldier",> > but the fact that 107 of the murdered victims were children, makes it> > very hard for us to believe such claims. This attack is overwhelming> > in nature. It has been reported that since the 1967 war Israel had> > never used such a massive air attack.> >> > After an Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip> >> > This attack was preceded by a series of deceptive manoeuvres on the> > part of Israel in order to keep Hamas off guard. Israel kept up the> > pretence of negotiations on the ceasefire and even allowed goods to> > enter the Strip. This deception should not come as a surprise to> > anyone who knows Ehud Barak's tactical mind. Just a short while ago,> > Barak used the same deceptive tactics in order to lull some entrenched> > Rightist Jewish settlers in Hebron before evacuating them by force.> >> > A statesman in such a high position does not normally use such tactics> > unless he is desperate. And Barak's desperation is what lies behind> > such an unprecedented attack. Barak apparently saved the attack for a> > special moment in which he could improve his position in the polls for> > the upcoming national elections. These polls consistently show that> > the party under his leadership will receive its lowest number of votes> > to date.> >> > For a long time Barak postponed the attack so it would not seem that> > he was working under the pressure of his opponents. He wanted the> > credit all for himself. Now, the Israeli masses, worked up by the> > media, got what the media told them they wanted: revenge. Barak plans> > to surf on a wave of Palestinian blood into a position of larger> > number of seats in parliament.> >> > In many ways, this attack has similarities with the Lebanese fiasco in> > 2006. It also is a staggering failure for Israel from the very moment> > it was concocted in the twisted minds of Barak and the army generals.> > Just as in Lebanon, also here the army has failed to stop the rocket> > launching into Israel. Hamas launched hundreds of them> > uninterruptedly, killing 3 Israelis in one day and wounding several> > others. It would also not be surprising if it comes out that the army> > wanted this result in order to incite Israelis against the> > Palestinians and to maintain support for the current operation. Just> > as in Lebanon, also here the operation has no concrete purpose. It is> > obvious that it cannot destroy Hamas, which will surely rearm itself> > within a few months of the operation ending. So it all seems just like> > an unleashing of random violence by the army for no obvious reason> > other than crude revenge. The difference between the current operation> > and the Lebanese one is that now the media is full of praises for the> > Defense Minister and the army on the exact level of performance that> > was shown in Lebanon.> >> > Collaborating democracy with imperialism> >> > How do we explain a situation where the Israeli masses have been> > whipped up into such a state of mind of a vengeful and shortsighted> > focus of their political worldview on "getting back" at the> > Palestinians? What should not be underestimated here is the> > psychological warfare the Israeli ruling elite has been waging against> > the Israeli masses. The media, the military and the politicians have> > been collaborating to create the impression that the rocket launching> > from the Gaza Strip has made the surrounding Israeli settlements look> > like a war zone. In actual fact, since 2004 to just before the recent> > operation began, the number of Israelis killed by such rockets is less> > than 15. To put things in perspective, the number of Israeli workers> > that died because of accidents in their workplaces during this period,> > was over 10 times that number. This number also resembles the number> > of Israelis that die in traffic accidents in less than two weeks. So> > if Barak is really so eager to protect Israeli lives through military> > means, he should be mobilising the air force against the Israeli> > bourgeoisie and the state bureaucrats responsible for transport safety> > rather than against the Palestinian masses!> >> > The military is making the lives of the Israelis in the settlements> > around Gaza as fearful as it can be. It is inducing a feeling of panic> > among the public using every means including loud sirens, arbitrary> > "defence" measures such as ducking and hiding, and forcing> people into> > bomb shelters, all in response to rockets that pose a minimal security> > threat. All this horror show is designed with one aim in mind: to make> > ordinary Israelis support the continuity of Israel's control over> > Gaza, and thus to pressure or to help democratically elected> > politicians to fall in line with imperialist interests.> >> > In the current economic crisis, control over Gaza is crucial to> > Israeli imperialism more than ever since the first Palestinian> > uprising in 1987. First of all, it satisfies the military's hunger for> > state spending on arms. The military, and the politicians under its> > influence, have proven themselves eager to do battle in any period in> > which their fiscal prerogatives are at jeopardy.> >> > The most crucial thing for Israeli imperialism, however, is to> > maintain stability for the "moderate" PLO in the West Bank which> > provide Israel with numerous resources in terms of one of the cheapest> > workforces in the world, a captive market that is dependent on> > absorbing Israel's surpluses, and land and water resources that Israel> > desperately needs. It requires the "pacifying" of Gaza in order> to> > make sure that the terrorism it hosts will not slide over into the> > West Bank and undermine the PLO regime.> >> > This is not to say that Gaza is meaningless to Israel in its own> > right. Despite its massive levels of poverty, the fact that the Gaza> > masses depend on goods coming through Israel gives the Israeli> > capitalists an advantage in terms of a captive market as well, that> > is, as a long-term perspective. This may also explain why the Israeli> > army has made much more of an effort to destroy the tunnels that> > smuggle goods from Egypt than it has to destroy the rocket launchers> > which were the formal reason for the operation in the first place!> >> > What does Hamas want?> >> > Unlike common-sense economic reductionism held by many on the Left,> > terrorist groups don't simply grow out of poverty. Just as the PLO,> > Hamas emerged from within the Palestinian petty bourgeoisie. They use> > the masses and their plight mostly as a tool to achieve their class> > interests which in this context usually include more lucrative jobs> > and positions. After Israel co-opted the PLO into collaboration with> > it in exchange for jobs created especially for the PLO members (the> > jobs created under the cloak of the "Palestinian Authority"),> Hamas> > wanted its peace of the pie as well.> >> > Palestinians of the West Bank demonstrate their solidarity with the> > people in Gaza> >> > It started to gather support from many frustrated Palestinians in the> > face of the PLO's betrayal using, among other things, vengeful acts of> > terrorism against Israelis. In parallel, it used similar tactics of> > terrorism in order to lure Israel into negotiating with it, carrying> > the risk of Israel's military, rather than diplomatic, retaliation.> >> > Just like Israel's ruling class, Hamas also benefits from the> > occupation. It uses it in order to gather support by the same populist> > means of violent rhetoric and actions used by the Israeli politicians.> > It also enjoys political and economic benefits via its control over> > smuggling commodities into the Strip: just like Israel, it to can> > benefit from the captive market in Gaza.> >> > In such a situation it is puzzling why, some among the international> > Left are tempted to take a supportive stance towards Hamas. They> > usually state that despite Hamas' reactionary ideology, it should be> > supported because of its "progressive fight against Israeli> > imperialism". The folly of such an idea becomes obvious if we look at> > Hamas from materialistic lines and ask ourselves what would happen if> > Hamas were to win this conflict? Will it weaken Israeli imperialism as> > the idealistic Leftists assume? A victory for Hamas could only mean> > that Israel would be forced to negotiate with it and give it similar> > political concessions as it gave to the PLO. The imperial relation of> > Israel towards the Palestinians may take a different form, but it will> > remain intact. Because under capitalism Palestine cannot be completely> > cut off from Israel, and will always be dependent on it, a national> > liberation movement that limits itself to struggling within the> > confines of capitalism cannot go in any other direction.> >> > Furthermore, bourgeois or petit bourgeois national liberation leaders> > have usually tended to push the proletariat in the oppressed nation> > into accepting their leadership because they became aware of the> > potential power of the workers. Such was the alliance between the> > South African workers and the ANC leaders who brought down the> > apartheid regime. But Here, Hamas has made very little effort to> > create an alliance with the Palestinian workers. Until now it has> > mostly just harassed their trade unions. Hamas thus have only the> > power of terrorism and collisions with the Israeli army to get> > concessions from Israel. Relying on this broken reed, its> > "anti-imperialist" credentials appear as somewhat exaggerated.> >> > Is there a way out?> >> > We are entering yet another cycle of violence between Israel's ruling> > class and Hamas. Such cycles began with Israel's opening up to the PLO> > in 1994. Each cycle brings Israel to a more violent response. However,> > the army has no intention of remaining entangled in the Strip for too> > long. This operation may last a bit longer and be much more violent> > than its predecessors because Barak's election campaign has to be> > taken into consideration. Although it is also true that once it ends,> > the operation always leaves behind the preconditions for the next> > operation.> >> > Demonstration against the war in Amman (Jordan)> >> > The Zionist chauvinism that characterized the first days of the> > operation is gradually being replaced by fear of yet another debacle> > such as in Lebanon. Journalists are constantly asking political and> > military leaders for the actual goals which this operation intends to> > achieve. The answers are always vague and illusive, such as "to> > radically change the array of deterrence". In that background, the> > announcement of Barak on Saturday was especially alarming. He said> > that the operation would take a long time and would have numerous> > victims. With no one knowing what this operation is for, this holds a> > puzzling future for the stability of the political system in Israel:> > after the chauvinism fades away, the death toll will keep increasing> > and many questions will be raised by the masses.> >> > To the dismay of the Israeli ruling class, thousands of Jews and> > Palestinians came this Saturday to Tel Aviv for a mass demonstration> > against the war (see video below). This is unprecedented. In the> > Lebanese war it took two months of bloody entanglement for so many> > protestors to show up. The protestors were constantly harassed by> > Zionist counter-protests which show just how frightened they are of> > the emerging protest movement in Israel. Small as it is now, the> > Zionists are instinctively aware of the fact that it holds the only> > real key to their downfall.> >> > As this website has repeated many times over, there cannot be a> > solution within the confines of bourgeois politics to this or any> > other major political conflict in the world. However, for the moment> > Israel and Palestine are deprived of any other form of politics. As> > long as this situation persists, these cycles of violence will> > continue. We can be sure, though, that from the impossibility of a> > solution to the situation under capitalism, new political forces are> > bound to emerge on both sides. The nature of these new forces is> > impossible to predict at this stage. But if they do not base> > themselves on the revolutionary collaboration of Israeli and> > Palestinian workers and poor against their mutual oppressors, no> > progressive change can be forthcoming from within the> > Israeli-Palestinian borders.> >> > Anti war demonstration in Tel Aviv> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > See also:> >> > Stop Israel's massacre in Gaza! by Walter Leon (December 30, 2008)> > Israel: Tel Aviv municipal elections - a Pyrrhic victory for the Right> > by Dekel Avshalom (November 17, 2008)> > Three years after Israel's disengagement from Gaza: critical> > reassessment by Dekel Avshalom (August 28, 2008)> > Hamas and Israel agree on ceasefire by Dekel Avshalom (June 19, 2008)> > Much ado about nothing: the Israeli "peace" talks with Syria by> Dekel> > Avshalom (May 28, 2008)> > Israel turns 60 – where next for the Jewish and Palestinian peoples?> > by Luke Wilson (May 16, 2008)> > Israel storms Gaza: once again "peace" talks prepare war by> Francesco> > Merli (March 5, 2008)> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in> the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From pkray11 at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 21:24:22 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:24:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege (ragini saira) Message-ID: <98f331e00901080754q14020d29w647a8393d74b3991@mail.gmail.com> Join Protest against the Israeli agression on the people of Ghaza at the Israeli Embassy. The march will begin from the India Gate to the Embassy on Aurangzeb Road at 11 am on 9th January'09. The protest has been called bt the Left parties and organizations. Prakash From indiaonedge at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 23:28:22 2009 From: indiaonedge at gmail.com (indiaonedge wordpress) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 23:28:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wherever we may be led Message-ID: <7b288a440901080958g288eb5e1v9f4653452adb0e06@mail.gmail.com> Wherever we may be led The media is a dangerous animal. The sooner do we realise this, the better. One of today's dailies carried a long delayed article on how TV almost led us to war against Pakistan after the Mumbai attack. The crazed hype and ballooning beyond proportion of 'events' is far more serious than the mere parodies they are made out to be. We ARE a people easily led. Our history is evidence enough. We may relish the thought of biting the hand that feeds us, but deep within, we cling to our Gods, our Communities, our Parents, and anything that offers us some collective and overarching direction. The role of the media in such a society cannot be understated. The problem however is that our media is you and me - and as easily led by the nose as any other ordinary Indian mortal. Determined powers have enough means at their disposal to lead these packs down paths of their choosing. Did the Pakistan Army fuel the war talk in the Indian media? Was it so easy to do? And why did the media rush off like crazed dogs in heat after the poor bitch of Satyam after 'investors' in the West started making angry noises? There are many voices of regret today in the way Satyam went down. A sort of pity that they didn't see this coming when they were tearing after the company with the sounds from the West ringing in their heads. Raju does not deserve to be condoned. This is not about choosing a one evil over an another. The point is that the media had gone after Satyam not because it took such bad decisions or was mismanaged, but because many powerful people in the West acted agitated seemed to believe that the decisions taken were terrible. Was there any stopping to question sanely what was really happening? Never mind. Too late now. Own of our biggest prides has gone down, and we can only nibble at our fingers and hope for someone to show us the way again. Yes Satyam should have been hauled over the coals. But the viciousness of the media was startling. This was a clearly being hugely spun by powers from all over, and instead of giving a group that we had much more knowledge and understanding of a little room, we tore them to bits. Then watched in disbelief as it crumbled. One can only watch and wait for the next big media screw ups. See a scrap tossed at them and watch them go. Slowly we destroy ourselves, while TRPs rise. http://indiaonedge.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/wherever-we-may-be-led/ From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 00:04:18 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:34:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Convention on War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes>> Sunday, 11th Jan 2009, 2-7 pm, Constitution Club In-Reply-To: <12d068e70901080007i42af84c1l6d21c14da83d64c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d068e70901072353s5849aecfg9ff2db6865742351@mail.gmail.com> <12d068e70901080007i42af84c1l6d21c14da83d64c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It is hoped that the issue of Pakistan sponsored pan Islamism inspired terrorism that raised its head in Kashmir when Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were subjected to ethnic cleansing in the valley twenty years ago & is now targetting rest of India with impunity (26-29/11 Mumbai carnage being the latest bloody attack) also features in the convention. It is almost a week now that our forces are fighting the pan Islamists in Poonch & the civil society is silent about the incursion....????.... Regards all LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:37:10 +0530> From: saheliwomen at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Convention on War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes>> Sunday, 11th Jan 2009, 2-7 pm, Constitution Club> > Dear Friends,> Join us on Sunday 11th January 2009 and also endorse the enclosed statement> on Mumbai attack.> In solidarity,> Saheli> > > *Say NO to war and a clampdown on our democratic rights!!*> > *Join us for a day of discussions and cultural programs*> > > > *Convention on*> > *War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes*> > > > 11 January 2009> > (2.00 pm – 7.00 pm)> > Deputy Speakers Hall, Constitution Club> > Rafi Marg, New Delhi> > > > **> > *Session 1*> > *Chair: Pamela Phillipose*> > **> > - *Post Mumbai attacks: An Overview* - *Tapan K. Bose*> > - *Tackling terror: Implication for democratic rights* - *Nitya Ramakrishnan> *> > - *Media: Its response and role* - *Tarun Tejpal & Ved Bhasin*> > - *Feminist perspective* - *Seema Kazi*> > > > *Tea break*> > > > *Session 2*> > *Chair: Manoranjan Mohanty*> > - *International linkages of war: Politics and Nexus* - *Kamal Mitra Chenoy*> > - *Perspective from Trade Unions* - *Ashim Roy*> > - *Voices from the Student community* - *Sandeep Singh*> > - *Strategizing for the future* - *Gautam Navalakha & Apoorvanand*> > *> > > > …with poetry recital and songs by Shweta Tripathi, Sania, Sumangla> Damodaran, Gauhar Raza, Vagish Jha and Kishore Chowdhury> > *> > *Organized by:*> > ANHAD, Delhi Forum, FDI, Indian Social Institute, INSAF, Intercultural> Resources, JAGORI, JMI TA, JNU TA, Kriti Team, NACDOR, NFFPFW, Nirman> Mazdoor Panchayat Sangam, PIPFPD, PUCL, PWESCR, SADED (CSDS), Saheli, SAMA,> SANGAT, The Other Media> > *********> > > > *For more information, contact: *> > *Ravi** Hemadri (+91 98714 15186), Vijayan MJ (+9198681 65471), *> > *Kalpana Mehta (+91 92124 49198)* _________________________________________________________________ Find a better job. We have plenty. Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 00:21:55 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:51:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege (ragini saira) In-Reply-To: <98f331e00901080754q14020d29w647a8393d74b3991@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901080754q14020d29w647a8393d74b3991@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 'wish a similar protest was also held out side the Pakistan embassy after the 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage by the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. Even today our forces are fighting the Islamists in Poonch- it is almost a week now & we have already lost a few Indians in the attack & the civil society is silent. Similar enthusiasm & vigour if exhibited when the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were being brutally attacked in Kashmir forcing them to flee the valley twenty years ago, would have saved Kashmiris in general, a lot of misery. The organisers - 'the left parties' & 'organisations' would do well to look in to their own back backyard first where protagonists of terror & mayhem have been patronised & allowed to acquire legitimacy. LA ps: It is in no way to undermine the human sufferings of both Palestinian as well as the Israeli masses.Let peace prevail in middle east. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:24:22 +0530> From: pkray11 at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege (ragini saira)> > Join Protest against the Israeli agression on the people of Ghaza at the> Israeli Embassy. The march will begin from the India Gate to the Embassy on> Aurangzeb Road at 11 am on 9th January'09. The protest has been called bt> the Left parties and organizations.> > Prakash> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From parthaekka at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 00:32:38 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:32:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Convention on War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes>> Sunday, 11th Jan 2009, 2-7 pm, Constitution Club In-Reply-To: References: <12d068e70901072353s5849aecfg9ff2db6865742351@mail.gmail.com> <12d068e70901080007i42af84c1l6d21c14da83d64c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990901081102l5461142dya66a45a6c06950b7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Lalit, Since we are talking about violence, strife, displacement & unrest; lets also take up: 1. Violence against women (which is on the rise in metro's) 2. Caste based discrimination 3. The recent 'Hindu' blasts 4. The Sri Lanka fight against the LTTE & 'ethnic cleansing' 5. The Maoist struggle 6. The ULFA 7. Displacement of people for 'development' 8. The option taken by political parties of exchanging prisoners who cause havoc 9. Religion/caste based polarisation being enforced by all political parties And since we are discussing the issue, the Pakistan based "Islamism inspired" terrorism has it's roots in the 'Christianity' based support by the US against the 'Communist' culture of the ex-USSR from the cold war. Terrorists may be of a particular religion, but just as some madcap Hindu's bursting bombs does not make all Hindus terrorists or define that Hinduism inspires terrorism, some misguided followers of the Islam creating havoc does not automatically denote that all followers of Islam (or even "Pan Islamists") are terrorists. Do note that the people who died / were injured in Mumbai were of many nations & religions - including Islam. And if you are a member of other lists, you would have noticed that 'civil society' is not silent about the current battle in the jungles of J&K - would be extremely hard considering the daily coverage it is getting in the TV channels. Rgds, Partha ............................ On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > It is hoped that the issue of Pakistan sponsored pan Islamism inspired > terrorism that raised its head in Kashmir when Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were > subjected to ethnic cleansing in the valley twenty years ago & is now > targetting rest of India with impunity (26-29/11 Mumbai carnage being the > latest bloody attack) also features in the convention. > It is almost a week now that our forces are fighting the pan Islamists in > Poonch & the civil society is silent about the incursion....????.... > Regards all > LA > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:37:10 +0530> From: saheliwomen at gmail.com> To: > reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Convention on War, > Democratic Rights and Peace Processes>> Sunday, 11th Jan 2009, 2-7 pm, > Constitution Club> > Dear Friends,> Join us on Sunday 11th January 2009 and > also endorse the enclosed statement> on Mumbai attack.> In solidarity,> > Saheli> > > *Say NO to war and a clampdown on our democratic rights!!*> > > *Join us for a day of discussions and cultural programs*> > > > *Convention > on*> > *War, Democratic Rights and Peace Processes*> > > > 11 January 2009> > > (2.00 pm – 7.00 pm)> > Deputy Speakers Hall, Constitution Club> > Rafi > Marg, New Delhi> > > > **> > *Session 1*> > *Chair: Pamela Phillipose*> > > **> > - *Post Mumbai attacks: An Overview* - *Tapan K. Bose*> > - *Tackling > terror: Implication for democratic rights* - *Nitya Ramakrishnan> *> > - > *Media: Its response and role* - *Tarun Tejpal & Ved Bhasin*> > - *Feminist > perspective* - *Seema Kazi*> > > > *Tea break*> > > > *Session 2*> > *Chair: > Manoranjan Mohanty*> > - *International linkages of war: Politics and Nexus* > - *Kamal Mitra Chenoy*> > - *Perspective from Trade Unions* - *Ashim Roy*> > > - *Voices from the Student community* - *Sandeep Singh*> > - *Strategizing > for the future* - *Gautam Navalakha & Apoorvanand*> > *> > > > …with poetry > recital and songs by Shweta Tripathi, Sania, Sumangla> Damodaran, Gauhar > Raza, Vagish Jha and Kishore Chowdhury> > *> > *Organized by:*> > ANHAD, > Delhi Forum, FDI, Indian Social Institute, INSAF, Intercultural> Resources, > JAGORI, JMI TA, JNU TA, Kriti Team, NACDOR, NFFPFW, Nirman> Mazdoor > Panchayat Sangam, PIPFPD, PUCL, PWESCR, SADED (CSDS), Saheli, SAMA,> SANGAT, > The Other Media> > *********> > > > *For more information, contact: *> > > *Ravi** Hemadri (+91 98714 15186), Vijayan MJ (+9198681 65471), *> > > *Kalpana Mehta (+91 92124 49198)* > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a better job. We have plenty. Visit MSN Jobs > http://www.in.msn.com/jobs > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 9 01:17:11 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:47:11 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Smart card for Indian migrant workers from June 01, 2009 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901081147x6b5f71d4y636aca7d0002a31b@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=46469 Smart card for Indian migrant workers from June 01, 2009 Thursday, January 08, 2009 20:34 IST The smart card for migrant Indian workers announced by the Prime Minister at the Pravasi Bhartiya Divas today will be operational from 1st June this year. This was disclosed by the Minister for Overseas Indian Affairs Mr. Vayalar Ravi while summing up the first day's proceedings of the mega-event that is being held in Chennai. He explained that those who migrate from India to other countries to work would be issued smart cards by the government, incorporating all the crucial information like passport details, address, contact persons in case of emergency, insurance particulars etc. The Minister said that the Centre has decided to permit overseas citizens cardholders, having professional qualifications in specialized areas such as medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, law etc. to practice in India. The legal framework to implement the order is being worked out by the respective regulatory agencies such as the Medical Council of India, Bar Council of India etc. Referring to the Global Indian Knowledge Network launched by the Prime Minister, he said, this would in effect serve as a knowledge bank for the vast network of People of Indian Origin who can get their specific questions answered with the help of professionals all around the world. Mr. Ravi said that members of the diaspora who come forward to work in elementary education, healthcare and empowerment of rural women will be facilitated through a dedicated non-profit oriented foundation. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 9 01:18:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:48:54 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Indian fishermen to sail with tamper-proof I-cards Message-ID: <65be9bf40901081148v2e29991o9fd817d86bc0709c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/indian-fishermen-to-sail-with-tamper-proof-i-cards_100139765.html January 8th, 2009 - 3:44 pm ICT by IANS - x Send to a Friend: Your name: Your email: Friend name: Friend email: Send to a friend: New Delhi, Jan 8 (IANS) Once bitten, twice shy. Tamper-proof, multipurpose identity cards will be provided to fishermen and others who regularly venture into the sea to plug security loopholes, with the terrorists who attacked Mumbai having sneaked into Indian waters with fake papers."After the Mumbai terror attack, a decision has been taken in principle to provide smart cards to fishermen and others who live along the coast line and venture into the sea for a living," a home ministry official told IANS. The smart cards will carry information like name, sex, date of birth and present residential address, photograph, fingerprints and details of PAN cards and driving licences. It will almost be impossible to alter details in the card or make a replica. The cards will only be issued from New Delhi after detailed scrutiny. Once these smart cards are issued to people, card readers would be made available to local administrations and security agencies. "These cards are tamper-proof and information embedded inside the electromagnetic chips cannot be altered. The modalities of implementation of the scheme are being worked out among the ministries and it will take a few months before the cards are distributed to people," the official, who did not want his identity to be revealed, added. He said such proposals had been there in the past but a decision to launch the scheme came only after the Mumbai terror attack. In November last year, 10 heavily armed terrorists who India says came from Pakistan sailed into Indian waters by giving the slip to Coast Guard officials with the help of fake identity cards. The terrorists killed over 170 people in their audacious attack that started Nov 26 and lasted 60 hours. Nine of them were gunned down. The one captured alive told interrogators that they used fake identity papers to enter Indian territory. Sources in the home ministry said the scheme would first be launched in the states of Maharashtra and Gujarat. "It will certainly help in identifying those entering Indian waters, especially from Pakistan. Often there have been many instances where people are caught entering Indian terrority with fake identity cards," the official said. "Sometimes it becomes very difficult to differentiate between Indian and Pakistani fishermen." India has a coastline of 7,517 km and has 13 coastal states bound by the Indian Ocean on the south, the Arabian Sea on the west, and the Bay of Bengal on the east. For some time now, intelligence agencies have warned of possible terror attacks via the sea where security is inadequate. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 9 01:21:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:51:12 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Health smart cards for India's poor Message-ID: <65be9bf40901081151r683ea9f0rb9074d091f76b6aa@mail.gmail.com> http://www.futuregov.net/articles/2009/jan/06/health-smart-cards-indias-poor/ Healthcare Health smart cards for India's poor By Alice Kok | 6 January 2009 The Indian government will bear the treatment costs of the poor under a new health insurance scheme. Using a smart card embedded with 11 types of software, patients can now afford the services of private or government hospitals through cashless and paperless transactions. * Health card launched for Indian expatriates Nearly 65 per cent of India's poor get into debt and one per cent fall below the poverty line each year because of illness, according to National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO). Health insurance can lighten the medical cost but only six per cent of India's workers have it. Free public hospitals are not an option as two out of five doctors are absent, and there is a 50 per cent chance of receiving the wrong treatment. This state of affairs is set to change dramatically with Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana (RSBY), a visionary national health insurance scheme, which provides US$620 in patient health benefits at a premium of US$12.40, which the government pays if you are poor. A patient can choose from almost 1,000 private or government hospitals. States can choose from 18 public or private insurance companies. Insurers have the incentive to recruit the poor as they earn premiums by doing so. This scheme gives the poor the choice of exiting a bad hospital, hence creating a more competitive environment for hospitals. The insured carry a smart card with a photo and fingerprints of the family. This card will make cashless and paperless transactions for the 725 pre-agreed medical procedures. The card contains a value of US$620 and it tracks daily hospital expenses with money deducted automatically after each procedure has been performed. There will not be a need for pre-approval or reimbursement as these smart cards are designed to prevent fraud with 11 unique types of embedded software. So far 500,000 cards have been issued in six months covering 2.5 million people. If all goes according to plan, 300 million people—or one-third of India—will be covered in five years at an annual cost of US$928 million. Smart cards can also carry data on payments for rations (PDS) or earnings from employment schemes (National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme) and can expose corruption very quickly. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 9 01:25:18 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:55:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Smart job card debut for Tripura Message-ID: <65be9bf40901081155i113479adm9b821dd26f80350@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090108/jsp/northeast/story_10359515.jsp The Telegraph Thursday , January 8 , 2009 Smart job card debut for Tripura OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT Agartala, Jan. 7: Tripura is set to introduce smart cards for beneficiaries of National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) to ensure better implementation. Smart cards are set to be introduced first in Dukli block, 6km southeast of Agartala. In the first phase, 2,000 beneficiaries will receive their cards. Subsequently, smart cards will be distributed among beneficiaries in all 40 blocks of the state. R.M. Malakar, additional district magistrate (West Tripura) in charge of Dukli block, said the front part of the smart card would have a picture of Tripura and a photograph of the head of the beneficiary family with name, address and job card number. The reverse would have photographs of other members of the family with their names. "A computer chip on the reverse of the card will contain all details of the family and by the process of scanning one would be able to easily know how many days' work the family has left," Malakar said. He said there would be no trouble even if the beneficiary lost the card because it would contain fingerprints of the original beneficiary on one side and report of the retina scan on the other. "Nobody will be able to misuse this card and if the distribution programme succeeds in Dukli, it will be implemented all over the country," Malakar said. The Union ministry of rural development has appreciated Tripura's achievement in implementing the scheme. He said currently 5.17 lakh people or 15.2 per cent of the state's population have job cards and are direct beneficiaries of the scheme. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 9 01:44:02 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:14:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomach ( Despite having a range of smart identification documents) Message-ID: <65be9bf40901081214w395ec115o39bc9aa969061b36@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, The story below indicates that how even having a range of smart identification cards are no security for almost half of Gujarat's population. Gujarat- which is perhaps the most industrialized state of India and is run by Narender bhai Modi, a man who has carefully built a public persona of being hard on terror. As the story suggests in reality he could not provide for basic necessities like food for his people. Please read the excerpt below- On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project, Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almost half of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry. The story below counters the assertion that links smart identification card with just distribution of food and employment opportunities. I think that before we go for an option for National Identity Card we in India need to have a public debate on the validity of the claims put forth by the industry. Does a huge transfer of money in the name of smart cards to the corporates coffers justified? Can that money be put to use in some other way? Who benefits the most by such a transfer? Warm regards Taha http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/half-of-vibrant-gujarat-goes-to-sleep-empty-stomach/401073/ Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomach Gaurav Sharma Posted: Dec 21, 2008 at 0355 hrs IST Ahmedabad Despite tall claims on paper, cases of malnutrition, anaemia, low body mass index abound in state "It is with the core value of the Right to Food that the Gujarat government's Food, Civil Supplies and Consumer Affairs Department sets its mandate," this is the government's claim. But, according to various reports, the state's Public Distribution System (PDS) is in a shambles. On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project, Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almost half of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry. For its part, the state government has issued nearly 89.58 lakh Above Poverty Line (APL) cards and 35.51 lakh Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards. In the latter category, about 8.10 lakh cards fall under the Antyodaya Anna Yojna (AAY), which caters to the poorest of the poor. So, in all, nearly 1.33 crore ration cards have been issued in the state to ensure the availability of wheat, rice, sugar and kerosene to the poorer sections of society at highly subsidised rates. This means that ideally, the system should work like this— the Food Corporation of India (FCI) issues the PDS quota to Gujarat at a subsidised rate, which in turn further subsidises it for BPL and AAY cardholders. APL citizens get no subsidy and have to pay the market price of their share of PDS. The food goes from the national warehouses to the state warehouses where it is checked, fortified and then distributed to Fair Price Shops (FPS). Ration cardholders then pick up their quota from there. But, as the state government itself has admitted, the PDS in Gujarat have come to be known for hoarding, profiteering, poor quality, adulteration, overpricing and under weighing. The FCI allots less than the required PDS quota to Gujarat and the government doesn't even bother about it. It keeps itself busy converting more and more BPL cards to APL, apparently to showcase its efforts at improving the hunger situation in the state, at least on paper. Also, bogus cards are made at will and the PDS quota is diverted to the open market using these. This happens at both the levels of the Civil Supplies Department and the Fair Price Shops. With absolutely no checks on the FPS, these functions as autonomous bodies and are the major source of resource diversions. Such is the situation now that numerous public hearings, suo motto cognizance by the Gujarat High Court and various RTI applications have failed to bring about any change. Gujarat's Minister for Food and Civil Supplies Narattam Patel could not be contacted for comments. Alarmingly hungry * According to International Food Policy Research Institute's 2008 Global Hunger Index, Gujarat is ranked 69th along with Haiti, the nation infamous for food riots. The state is placed in the 'alarming' category. * The M S Swaminathan Research Foundation has identified urban Gujarat as 'moderately food secure' while rural Gujarat remains 'severely insecure.' * The National Family Health Survey III (NFHS-III) conveys that 42.4 per cent of children in Gujarat are suffering from stunted growth due to malnutrition. Also, about 47.4 per cent of children are underweight in the state. * NFHS-III also points out that more than half of Gujarat's population is Anaemic, with a percentage as high as 80.1 for children aged 6-35 months. * NFHS-III further states that nearly one-third of adults in Gujarat have their Body Mass Index (BMI) below the normal, 32.3 per cent for women and 28.2 per cent for men. System in a shambles but the government is in denial SC overruled * The Supreme Court had ordered on November 28, 2001 and January 10, 2008 to provide 35 kg food grains — 19 kg wheat flour and 16 kg rice — to the poorest of the poor under the Antyodaya Scheme. But the Gujarat government in its resolution dated March 24, 2008 decided to provide 16 kg rice and 16.7 kg wheat fortified flour * The government deducts 2.3 kg from the entitlement of 19 kg and passes it on to the flour mills as the cost of fortification. So, flour mills get the benefit of 24,647 tons of wheat annually at the cost of poorest of the poor Poor distribution system Public hearings in 2008 against injustices abounding in the PDS * 900 people attend a hearing organised by the Lok Adhikar Manch (supported by Action Aid) on April 30 at Anjar, Kutch. * 1,300 people attend a hearing organised by Lok Adhikar Manch on July 2 at Khavda in Kutch * 1,150 people attend a hearing organised by Sarthi (supported by Action Aid) on November 21 at Panchmahals Common grievances recorded * Large scale diversion of PDS food grains * Irregular identification and distribution of ration cards * False and fake entries on ration cards * Fair Price Shops (FPS) open for less than two weeks in a month against the stipulated 24 days Sorry state of affairs * The National Council for Applied Economic Research (NCAER), New Delhi, finds in a survey that nearly 11, 53,000 ghost/fake BPL cards have been issued in Gujarat * An ORG-Marg report commissioned by the Centre reveals that in Gujarat, about 41 per cent of rice slotted for the poor is being diverted * According to the state government, the Centre allots food grains only for 21.20 lakh families as against the 35.51 lakh BPL families, a gap for nearly 14.31 lakh families. Still, the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution confirms in reply to an RTI application that 'No representation is received from any MP, MLA, CM or Minister regarding the supply of food grains to Gujarat since the last one year.' * An analysis report dated December 26, 2007 of the Public Health Laboratory, Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation, confirms live insects, high quantity of chaff in 18 samples of fortified wheat flour supplied by FPS at various districts in Rajkot, Panchmahals, Dahod, Dwarka and Jamnagar. It is deemed unfit for human consumption. * The FCI admits in a reply to an application filed under the Right to Information Act that nearly 73,814 tons of food grains have been damaged in Gujarat and Maharashtra over the past decade From pkray11 at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 01:59:16 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 01:59:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege Message-ID: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Lalit, No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left parties, organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in Kashmir and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They never bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So, please go ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel. Prakash From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 10:08:02 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:08:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege In-Reply-To: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901082038q37b92209ue43fd5c20982f0f4@mail.gmail.com> Prakash , Talking about communal politics, i would classify leftist as the most communal ones. The ideology is dead and they have nowehere to go , but to make desparate attempts to prove that they exist. The double standards of left existed before partition and they continue to exist even now. Pawan On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:59 AM, prakash ray wrote: > Dear Lalit, > > No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to > demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left parties, > organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in Kashmir > and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They never > bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So, please > go > ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel. > > Prakash > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 10:42:39 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:42:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] China woos saffron parties Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901082112l36915edv8a48c04d3b93ec16@mail.gmail.com> http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/08china-woos-saffron-parties-arunachal-on-agenda.htm Five bigwigs of Bharatiya Janata Party, Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and Shiv Sena are on a six-day visit to China on an invitation from the Communist Party of China. The BJP-RSS-SS delegation is led by Bal Apte, BJP member of Rajya Sabha. Ram Madhav, member of RSS executive council, Chandan Mitra, editor of *Pioneer*, Balbir Punj, senior journalist and BJP leader, and Suresh Prabhu, Shiv Sena leader from Maharashtra, are part of the delegation. On December 5, the delegation met members of the Politburo and also the head of international department of the communist party, who is often considered more senior than China's foreign minister. Wang Jiarui, minister of International department of CPC and Vice Minister Liu Hongoai met the delegation in Great Hall near Tiananmen Square in Beijing [Images ]. Later, a lunch was hosted for the visiting delegation by the CPC. In their interactions, both sides exchange views on Tibet [Images ], Arunchal Pradesh and the economic melt down. Talking to *rediff.com* from Shanghai, Ram Madhav said, "We represented national consensus over the issue of Tibet and Arunachal Pradesh." He said the interactions of CPC and the Hindu parties were quite broad-based and intense where Chinese counterparts also stuck steadfastly to their views. Apte stressed that party-to-party meetings are in fact people-to-people meetings because political parties directly deal with people. Madhav said, "We emphasised that Tibet has a distinct culture and that identity must be preserved. We also gave them an idea about how much Dalai Lama [Images ]is revered in India. Of course, we have different perspectives but dialogue is important." Madhav claimed this was the first time that such a dialogue on crucial issues at political parties' level had took place between India and China. The delegation was also taken to political school of CPC. Every Chinese leader has to attend this school. Indian leaders also met members of China's think-tank. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 13:03:15 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:03:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901082038q37b92209ue43fd5c20982f0f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901082038q37b92209ue43fd5c20982f0f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan I am not a leftist nor am I speaking for communism (which I agree is dead), but if you think they are the most communal people, could you tell us how many times have they instigated communal riots, how many people have they killed in communal violence, through which modes have they spread the communal hate in India (which all other established "communal" parties have been doing so far). Javed On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Prakash , > > Talking about communal politics, i would classify leftist as the most > communal ones. The ideology is dead and they have nowehere to go , but to > make desparate attempts to prove that they exist. > > The double standards of left existed before partition and they continue to > exist even now. > > Pawan > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:59 AM, prakash ray wrote: > >> Dear Lalit, >> >> No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to >> demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left parties, >> organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in Kashmir >> and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They never >> bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So, please >> go >> ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel. >> >> Prakash >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 13:10:02 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:10:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901082038q37b92209ue43fd5c20982f0f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901082340h20052d9awbef359773a3a1b0b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, Instigating a riot in name of relegion is not the only was someone can be classified as a communal. By repeatedly speaking against right of one particular relegion is also one criteria for classifying someone. Speaking of violence , Communists do not need any introduction. They have perhaps the longest experience in that. Rgds Pawan Did you notice how the communits have double standards. How Prakash avoided a suitable answer to Mr lalits questions . Did it not expose the communists. On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM, M Javed wrote: > Dear Pawan > I am not a leftist nor am I speaking for communism (which I agree is > dead), but if you think they are the most communal people, could you > tell us how many times have they instigated communal riots, how many > people have they killed in communal violence, through which modes have > they spread the communal hate in India (which all other established > "communal" parties have been doing so far). > > Javed > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Pawan Durani > wrote: > > Prakash , > > > > Talking about communal politics, i would classify leftist as the most > > communal ones. The ideology is dead and they have nowehere to go , but to > > make desparate attempts to prove that they exist. > > > > The double standards of left existed before partition and they continue > to > > exist even now. > > > > Pawan > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:59 AM, prakash ray wrote: > > > >> Dear Lalit, > >> > >> No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to > >> demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left > parties, > >> organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in > Kashmir > >> and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They > never > >> bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So, > please > >> go > >> ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel. > >> > >> Prakash > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From clifton at altlawforum.org Fri Jan 9 15:31:52 2009 From: clifton at altlawforum.org (Clifton R) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:31:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] unsubsrcibe Message-ID: <7bb6536b0901090201i221d25a6ya77ae7c2ad6e7b48@mail.gmail.com> From eddiefraenkel at yahoo.com.br Fri Jan 9 18:29:47 2009 From: eddiefraenkel at yahoo.com.br (Erika Fraenkel) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 04:59:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The poor Palestinian children - you must see! Message-ID: <678653.34693.qm@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> FW: The poor Palestinian children - you must see!      The poor Palestinian children - you must see! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8   Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com From ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de Fri Jan 9 18:32:43 2009 From: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Britta Ohm) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:02:43 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomach ( Despite having a range of smart identification documents) In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901081214w395ec115o39bc9aa969061b36@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901081214w395ec115o39bc9aa969061b36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7F30A931-F5B8-4E95-ACF5-B507D71A19F1@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Would love to read this... Britta Am 08.01.2009 um 21:14 schrieb Taha Mehmood: > RGVhciBhbGwsCgpUaGUgc3RvcnkgYmVsb3cgaW5kaWNhdGVzIHRoYXQgaG93IGV2ZW4gaGF2aW5n > IGEgcmFuZ2Ugb2Ygc21hcnQKaWRlbnRpZmljYXRpb24gY2FyZHMgYXJlIG5vIHNlY3VyaXR5IGZv > ciBhbG1vc3QgaGFsZiBvZiBHdWphcmF0J3MKcG9wdWxhdGlvbi4KCkd1amFyYXQtIHdoaWNoIGlz > IHBlcmhhcHMgdGhlIG1vc3QgaW5kdXN0cmlhbGl6ZWQgc3RhdGUgb2YgSW5kaWEgYW5kCmlzIHJ1 > biBieSBOYXJlbmRlciBiaGFpIE1vZGksIGEgbWFuIHdobyBoYXMgY2FyZWZ1bGx5IGJ1aWx0IGEg > cHVibGljCnBlcnNvbmEgb2YgYmVpbmcgaGFyZCBvbiB0ZXJyb3IuIEFzIHRoZSBzdG9yeSBzdWdn > ZXN0cyBpbiByZWFsaXR5IGhlCmNvdWxkIG5vdCBwcm92aWRlIGZvciBiYXNpYyBuZWNlc3NpdGll > cyBsaWtlIGZvb2QgZm9yIGhpcyBwZW9wbGUuCgpQbGVhc2UgcmVhZCB0aGUgZXhjZXJwdCBiZWxv > dy0KCk9uIHBhcGVyLCBtdWNoIGh5cGVkIHNjaGVtZXMgbGlrZSB0aGUgQW5hbmQgU21hcnQgQ2Fy > ZCBQcm9qZWN0LApSb2FtaW5nIFJhdGlvbiBDYXJkLCBGb29kIEZvcnRpZmljYXRpb24sIEdyYWhh > ayBCaGFuZGFyIFlvamFuYSwgRm9vZApIZWxwbGluZSBhbmQgb3RoZXJzIG1heSBhcHBlYXIgdG8g > YmUgaW4gcGxhY2UuIERlc3BpdGUgdGhpcywgYWxtb3N0CmhhbGYgb2YgR3VqYXJhdCdzIHNpeCBj > cm9yZSBwb3B1bGF0aW9uIGlzIGh1bmdyeS4KClRoZSBzdG9yeSBiZWxvdyBjb3VudGVycyB0aGUg > YXNzZXJ0aW9uIHRoYXQgbGlua3Mgc21hcnQgaWRlbnRpZmljYXRpb24KY2FyZCB3aXRoIGp1c3Qg > ZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIG9mIGZvb2QgYW5kIGVtcGxveW1lbnQgb3Bwb3J0dW5pdGllcy4KCkkgdGhp > bmsgdGhhdCBiZWZvcmUgd2UgZ28gZm9yIGFuIG9wdGlvbiBmb3IgTmF0aW9uYWwgSWRlbnRpdHkg > Q2FyZCB3ZQppbiBJbmRpYSBuZWVkIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBwdWJsaWMgZGViYXRlIG9uIHRoZSB2YWxp > ZGl0eSBvZiB0aGUgY2xhaW1zCnB1dCBmb3J0aCBieSB0aGUgaW5kdXN0cnkuCgpEb2VzIGEgaHVn > ZSB0cmFuc2ZlciBvZiBtb25leSBpbiB0aGUgbmFtZSBvZiBzbWFydCBjYXJkcyB0byB0aGUKY29y > cG9yYXRlcyBjb2ZmZXJzIGp1c3RpZmllZD8gQ2FuIHRoYXQgbW9uZXkgYmUgcHV0IHRvIHVzZSBp > biBzb21lCm90aGVyIHdheT8gV2hvIGJlbmVmaXRzIHRoZSBtb3N0IGJ5IHN1Y2ggYSB0cmFuc2Zl > cj8KCldhcm0gcmVnYXJkcwoKVGFoYQoKCgpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV4cHJlc3NpbmRpYS5jb20vbGF0 > ZXN0LW5ld3MvaGFsZi1vZi12aWJyYW50LWd1amFyYXQtZ29lcy10by1zbGVlcC1lbXB0eS1zdG9t > YWNoLzQwMTA3My8KCgpIYWxmIG9mIFZpYnJhbnQgR3VqYXJhdCBnb2VzIHRvIHNsZWVwIGVtcHR5 > IHN0b21hY2gKCkdhdXJhdiBTaGFybWEKUG9zdGVkOiBEZWMgMjEsIDIwMDggYXQgMDM1NSBocnMg > SVNUCgpBaG1lZGFiYWQgRGVzcGl0ZSB0YWxsIGNsYWltcyBvbiBwYXBlciwgY2FzZXMgb2YgbWFs > bnV0cml0aW9uLAphbmFlbWlhLCBsb3cgYm9keSBtYXNzIGluZGV4IGFib3VuZCBpbiBzdGF0ZQoK > Ikl0IGlzIHdpdGggdGhlIGNvcmUgdmFsdWUgb2YgdGhlIFJpZ2h0IHRvIEZvb2QgdGhhdCB0aGUg > R3VqYXJhdApnb3Zlcm5tZW50J3MgRm9vZCwgQ2l2aWwgU3VwcGxpZXMgYW5kIENvbnN1bWVyIEFm > ZmFpcnMgRGVwYXJ0bWVudCBzZXRzCml0cyBtYW5kYXRlLCIgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgZ292ZXJubWVu > dCdzIGNsYWltLiBCdXQsIGFjY29yZGluZyB0bwp2YXJpb3VzIHJlcG9ydHMsIHRoZSBzdGF0ZSdz > IFB1YmxpYyBEaXN0cmlidXRpb24gU3lzdGVtIChQRFMpIGlzIGluIGEKc2hhbWJsZXMuCgpPbiBw > YXBlciwgbXVjaCBoeXBlZCBzY2hlbWVzIGxpa2UgdGhlIEFuYW5kIFNtYXJ0IENhcmQgUHJvamVj > dCwKUm9hbWluZyBSYXRpb24gQ2FyZCwgRm9vZCBGb3J0aWZpY2F0aW9uLCBHcmFoYWsgQmhhbmRh > ciBZb2phbmEsIEZvb2QKSGVscGxpbmUgYW5kIG90aGVycyBtYXkgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIGluIHBs > YWNlLiBEZXNwaXRlIHRoaXMsIGFsbW9zdApoYWxmIG9mIEd1amFyYXQncyBzaXggY3JvcmUgcG9w > dWxhdGlvbiBpcyBodW5ncnkuCgpGb3IgaXRzIHBhcnQsIHRoZSBzdGF0ZSBnb3Zlcm5tZW50IGhh > cyBpc3N1ZWQgbmVhcmx5IDg5LjU4IGxha2ggQWJvdmUKUG92ZXJ0eSBMaW5lIChBUEwpIGNhcmRz > IGFuZCAzNS41MSBsYWtoIEJlbG93IFBvdmVydHkgTGluZSAoQlBMKQpjYXJkcy4gSW4gdGhlIGxh > dHRlciBjYXRlZ29yeSwgYWJvdXQgOC4xMCBsYWtoIGNhcmRzIGZhbGwgdW5kZXIgdGhlCkFudHlv > ZGF5YSBBbm5hIFlvam5hIChBQVkpLCB3aGljaCBjYXRlcnMgdG8gdGhlIHBvb3Jlc3Qgb2YgdGhl > IHBvb3IuClNvLCBpbiBhbGwsIG5lYXJseSAxLjMzIGNyb3JlIHJhdGlvbiBjYXJkcyBoYXZlIGJl > ZW4gaXNzdWVkIGluIHRoZQpzdGF0ZSB0byBlbnN1cmUgdGhlIGF2YWlsYWJpbGl0eSBvZiB3aGVh > dCwgcmljZSwgc3VnYXIgYW5kIGtlcm9zZW5lIHRvCnRoZSBwb29yZXIgc2VjdGlvbnMgb2Ygc29j > aWV0eSBhdCBoaWdobHkgc3Vic2lkaXNlZCByYXRlcy4KClRoaXMgbWVhbnMgdGhhdCBpZGVhbGx5 > LCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIHNob3VsZCB3b3JrIGxpa2UgdGhpc > +KAlCB0aGUgRm9vZApDb3Jwb3JhdGlv > biBvZiBJbmRpYSAoRkNJKSBpc3N1ZXMgdGhlIFBEUyBxdW90YSB0byBHdWphcmF0IGF0IGEKc3Vi > c2lkaXNlZCByYXRlLCB3aGljaCBpbiB0dXJuIGZ1cnRoZXIgc3Vic2lkaXNlcyBpdCBmb3IgQlBM > IGFuZCBBQVkKY2FyZGhvbGRlcnMuIEFQTCBjaXRpemVucyBnZXQgbm8gc3Vic2lkeSBhbmQgaGF2 > ZSB0byBwYXkgdGhlIG1hcmtldApwcmljZSBvZiB0aGVpciBzaGFyZSBvZiBQRFMuIFRoZSBmb29k > IGdvZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgbmF0aW9uYWwKd2FyZWhvdXNlcyB0byB0aGUgc3RhdGUgd2FyZWhvdXNl > cyB3aGVyZSBpdCBpcyBjaGVja2VkLCBmb3J0aWZpZWQgYW5kCnRoZW4gZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgdG8g > RmFpciBQcmljZSBTaG9wcyAoRlBTKS4gUmF0aW9uIGNhcmRob2xkZXJzIHRoZW4KcGljayB1cCB0 > aGVpciBxdW90YSBmcm9tIHRoZXJlLgoKQnV0LCBhcyB0aGUgc3RhdGUgZ292ZXJubWVudCBpdHNl > bGYgaGFzIGFkbWl0dGVkLCB0aGUgUERTIGluIEd1amFyYXQKaGF2ZSBjb21lIHRvIGJlIGtub3du > IGZvciBob2FyZGluZywgcHJvZml0ZWVyaW5nLCBwb29yIHF1YWxpdHksCmFkdWx0ZXJhdGlvbiwg > b3ZlcnByaWNpbmcgYW5kIHVuZGVyIHdlaWdoaW5nLiBUaGUgRkNJIGFsbG90cyBsZXNzIHRoYW4K > dGhlIHJlcXVpcmVkIFBEUyBxdW90YSB0byBHdWphcmF0IGFuZCB0aGUgZ292ZXJubWVudCBkb2Vz > bid0IGV2ZW4KYm90aGVyIGFib3V0IGl0LiBJdCBrZWVwcyBpdHNlbGYgYnVzeSBjb252ZXJ0aW5n > IG1vcmUgYW5kIG1vcmUgQlBMCmNhcmRzIHRvIEFQTCwgYXBwYXJlbnRseSB0byBzaG93Y2FzZSBp > dHMgZWZmb3J0cyBhdCBpbXByb3ZpbmcgdGhlCmh1bmdlciBzaXR1YXRpb24gaW4gdGhlIHN0YXRl > LCBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbiBwYXBlci4KCkFsc28sIGJvZ3VzIGNhcmRzIGFyZSBtYWRlIGF0IHdpbGwg > YW5kIHRoZSBQRFMgcXVvdGEgaXMgZGl2ZXJ0ZWQgdG8KdGhlIG9wZW4gbWFya2V0IHVzaW5nIHRo > ZXNlLiBUaGlzIGhhcHBlbnMgYXQgYm90aCB0aGUgbGV2ZWxzIG9mIHRoZQpDaXZpbCBTdXBwbGll > cyBEZXBhcnRtZW50IGFuZCB0aGUgRmFpciBQcmljZSBTaG9wcy4gV2l0aCBhYnNvbHV0ZWx5IG5v > CmNoZWNrcyBvbiB0aGUgRlBTLCB0aGVzZSBmdW5jdGlvbnMgYXMgYXV0b25vbW91cyBib2RpZXMg > YW5kIGFyZSB0aGUKbWFqb3Igc291cmNlIG9mIHJlc291cmNlIGRpdmVyc2lvbnMuIFN1Y2ggaXMg > dGhlIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBub3cgdGhhdApudW1lcm91cyBwdWJsaWMgaGVhcmluZ3MsIHN1byBtb3R0 > byBjb2duaXphbmNlIGJ5IHRoZSBHdWphcmF0IEhpZ2gKQ291cnQgYW5kIHZhcmlvdXMgUlRJIGFw > cGxpY2F0aW9ucyBoYXZlIGZhaWxlZCB0byBicmluZyBhYm91dCBhbnkKY2hhbmdlLgoKR3VqYXJh > dCdzIE1pbmlzdGVyIGZvciBGb29kIGFuZCBDaXZpbCBTdXBwbGllcyBOYXJhdHRhbSBQYXRlbCBj > b3VsZApub3QgYmUgY29udGFjdGVkIGZvciBjb21tZW50cy4KCkFsYXJtaW5nbHkgaHVuZ3J5Ciog > QWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIEludGVybmF0aW9uYWwgRm9vZCBQb2xpY3kgUmVzZWFyY2ggSW5zdGl0dXRl > J3MgMjAwOApHbG9iYWwgSHVuZ2VyIEluZGV4LCBHdWphcmF0IGlzIHJhbmtlZCA2OXRoIGFsb25n > IHdpdGggSGFpdGksIHRoZQpuYXRpb24gaW5mYW1vdXMgZm9yIGZvb2QgcmlvdHMuIFRoZSBzdGF0 > ZSBpcyBwbGFjZWQgaW4gdGhlICdhbGFybWluZycKY2F0ZWdvcnkuCiogVGhlIE0gUyBTd2FtaW5h > dGhhbiBSZXNlYXJjaCBGb3VuZGF0aW9uIGhhcyBpZGVudGlmaWVkIHVyYmFuIEd1amFyYXQKYXMg > J21vZGVyYXRlbHkgZm9vZCBzZWN1cmUnIHdoaWxlIHJ1cmFsIEd1amFyYXQgcmVtYWlucyAnc2V2 > ZXJlbHkKaW5zZWN1cmUuJwoqIFRoZSBOYXRpb25hbCBGYW1pbHkgSGVhbHRoIFN1cnZleSBJSUkg > KE5GSFMtSUlJKSBjb252ZXlzIHRoYXQgNDIuNApwZXIgY2VudCBvZiBjaGlsZHJlbiBpbiBHdWph > cmF0IGFyZSBzdWZmZXJpbmcgZnJvbSBzdHVudGVkIGdyb3d0aCBkdWUKdG8gbWFsbnV0cml0aW9u > LiBBbHNvLCBhYm91dCA0Ny40IHBlciBjZW50IG9mIGNoaWxkcmVuIGFyZSB1bmRlcndlaWdodApp > biB0aGUgc3RhdGUuCiogTkZIUy1JSUkgYWxzbyBwb2ludHMgb3V0IHRoYXQgbW9yZSB0aGFuIGhh > bGYgb2YgR3VqYXJhdCdzIHBvcHVsYXRpb24KaXMgQW5hZW1pYywgd2l0aCBhIHBlcmNlbnRhZ2Ug > YXMgaGlnaCBhcyA4MC4xIGZvciBjaGlsZHJlbiBhZ2VkIDYtMzUKbW9udGhzLgoqIE5GSFMtSUlJ > IGZ1cnRoZXIgc3RhdGVzIHRoYXQgbmVhcmx5IG9uZS10aGlyZCBvZiBhZHVsdHMgaW4gR3VqYXJh > dApoYXZlIHRoZWlyIEJvZHkgTWFzcyBJbmRleCAoQk1JKSBiZWxvdyB0aGUgbm9ybWFsLCAzMi4z > IHBlciBjZW50IGZvcgp3b21lbiBhbmQgMjguMiBwZXIgY2VudCBmb3IgbWVuLgoKU3lzdGVtIGlu > IGEgc2hhbWJsZXMgYnV0IHRoZSBnb3Zlcm5tZW50IGlzIGluIGRlbmlhbApTQyBvdmVycnVsZWQK > KiBUaGUgU3VwcmVtZSBDb3VydCBoYWQgb3JkZXJlZCBvbiBOb3ZlbWJlciAyOCwgMjAwMSBhbmQg > SmFudWFyeSAxMCwKMjAwOCB0byBwcm92aWRlIDM1IGtnIGZvb2QgZ3JhaW5zIOKAlCAxOSBrZyB3 > aGVhdCBmbG91ciBhbmQgMTYga2cgcmljZSDigJQKdG8gdGhlIHBvb3Jlc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHBvb3Ig > dW5kZXIgdGhlIEFudHlvZGF5YSBTY2hlbWUuIEJ1dCB0aGUgR3VqYXJhdApnb3Zlcm5tZW50IGlu > IGl0cyByZXNvbHV0aW9uIGRhdGVkIE1hcmNoIDI0LCAyMDA4IGRlY2lkZWQgdG8gcHJvdmlkZQox > NiBrZyByaWNlIGFuZCAxNi43IGtnIHdoZWF0IGZvcnRpZmllZCBmbG91cgoqIFRoZSBnb3Zlcm5t > ZW50IGRlZHVjdHMgMi4zIGtnIGZyb20gdGhlIGVudGl0bGVtZW50IG9mIDE5IGtnIGFuZApwYXNz > ZXMgaXQgb24gdG8gdGhlIGZsb3VyIG1pbGxzIGFzIHRoZSBjb3N0IG9mIGZvcnRpZmljYXRpb24u > IFNvLApmbG91ciBtaWxscyBnZXQgdGhlIGJlbmVmaXQgb2YgMjQsNjQ3IHRvbnMgb2Ygd2hlYXQg > YW5udWFsbHkgYXQgdGhlCmNvc3Qgb2YgcG9vcmVzdCBvZiB0aGUgcG9vcgpQb29yIGRpc3RyaWJ1 > dGlvbiBzeXN0ZW0KUHVibGljIGhlYXJpbmdzIGluIDIwMDggYWdhaW5zdCBpbmp1c3RpY2VzIGFi > b3VuZGluZyBpbiB0aGUgUERTCiogOTAwIHBlb3BsZSBhdHRlbmQgYSBoZWFyaW5nIG9yZ2FuaXNl > ZCBieSB0aGUgTG9rIEFkaGlrYXIgTWFuY2gKKHN1cHBvcnRlZCBieSBBY3Rpb24gQWlkKSBvbiBB > cHJpbCAzMCBhdCBBbmphciwgS3V0Y2guCiogMSwzMDAgcGVvcGxlIGF0dGVuZCBhIGhlYXJpbmcg > b3JnYW5pc2VkIGJ5IExvayBBZGhpa2FyIE1hbmNoIG9uIEp1bHkKMiBhdCBLaGF2ZGEgaW4gS3V0 > Y2gKKiAxLDE1MCBwZW9wbGUgYXR0ZW5kIGEgaGVhcmluZyBvcmdhbmlzZWQgYnkgU2FydGhpIChz > dXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkKQWN0aW9uIEFpZCkgb24gTm92ZW1iZXIgMjEgYXQgUGFuY2htYWhhbHMKQ29t > bW9uIGdyaWV2YW5jZXMgcmVjb3JkZWQKKiBMYXJnZSBzY2FsZSBkaXZlcnNpb24gb2YgUERTIGZv > b2QgZ3JhaW5zCiogSXJyZWd1bGFyIGlkZW50aWZpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24gb2Yg > cmF0aW9uIGNhcmRzCiogRmFsc2UgYW5kIGZha2UgZW50cmllcyBvbiByYXRpb24gY2FyZHMKKiBG > YWlyIFByaWNlIFNob3BzIChGUFMpIG9wZW4gZm9yIGxlc3MgdGhhbiB0d28gd2Vla3MgaW4gYSBt > b250aAphZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBzdGlwdWxhdGVkIDI0IGRheXMKU29ycnkgc3RhdGUgb2YgYWZmYWly > cwoqIFRoZSBOYXRpb25hbCBDb3VuY2lsIGZvciBBcHBsaWVkIEVjb25vbWljIFJlc2VhcmNoIChO > Q0FFUiksIE5ldwpEZWxoaSwgZmluZHMgaW4gYSBzdXJ2ZXkgdGhhdCBuZWFybHkgMTEsIDUzLDAw > MCBnaG9zdC9mYWtlIEJQTCBjYXJkcwpoYXZlIGJlZW4gaXNzdWVkIGluIEd1amFyYXQKKiBBbiBP > UkctTWFyZyByZXBvcnQgY29tbWlzc2lvbmVkIGJ5IHRoZSBDZW50cmUgcmV2ZWFscyB0aGF0IGlu > Ckd1amFyYXQsIGFib3V0IDQxIHBlciBjZW50IG9mIHJpY2Ugc2xvdHRlZCBmb3IgdGhlIHBvb3Ig > aXMgYmVpbmcKZGl2ZXJ0ZWQKKiBBY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gdGhlIHN0YXRlIGdvdmVybm1lbnQsIHRo > ZSBDZW50cmUgYWxsb3RzIGZvb2QgZ3JhaW5zCm9ubHkgZm9yIDIxLjIwIGxha2ggZmFtaWxpZXMg > YXMgYWdhaW5zdCB0aGUgMzUuNTEgbGFraCBCUEwgZmFtaWxpZXMsIGEKZ2FwIGZvciBuZWFybHkg > MTQuMzEgbGFraCBmYW1pbGllcy4gU3RpbGwsIHRoZSBNaW5pc3RyeSBvZiBDb25zdW1lcgpBZmZh > aXJzLCBGb29kIGFuZCBQdWJsaWMgRGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIGNvbmZpcm1zIGluIHJlcGx5IHRvIGFu > IFJUSQphcHBsaWNhdGlvbiB0aGF0ICdObyByZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbiBpcyByZWNlaXZlZCBmcm9t > IGFueSBNUCwgTUxBLCBDTQpvciBNaW5pc3RlciByZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhlIHN1cHBseSBvZiBmb29k > IGdyYWlucyB0byBHdWphcmF0IHNpbmNlIHRoZQpsYXN0IG9uZSB5ZWFyLicKKiBBbiBhbmFseXNp > cyByZXBvcnQgZGF0ZWQgRGVjZW1iZXIgMjYsIDIwMDcgb2YgdGhlIFB1YmxpYyBIZWFsdGgKTGFi > b3JhdG9yeSwgQWhtZWRhYmFkIE11bmljaXBhbCBDb3Jwb3JhdGlvbiwgY29uZmlybXMgbGl2ZSBp > bnNlY3RzLApoaWdoIHF1YW50aXR5IG9mIGNoYWZmIGluIDE4IHNhbXBsZXMgb2YgZm9ydGlmaWVk > IHdoZWF0IGZsb3VyIHN1cHBsaWVkCmJ5IEZQUyBhdCB2YXJpb3VzIGRpc3RyaWN0cyBpbiBSYWpr > b3QsIFBhbmNobWFoYWxzLCBEYWhvZCwgRHdhcmthIGFuZApKYW1uYWdhci4gSXQgaXMgZGVlbWVk > IHVuZml0IGZvciBodW1hbiBjb25zdW1wdGlvbi4KKiBUaGUgRkNJIGFkbWl0cyBpbiBhIHJlcGx5 > IHRvIGFuIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGZpbGVkIHVuZGVyIHRoZSBSaWdodCB0bwpJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBB > Y3QgdGhhdCBuZWFybHkgNzMsODE0IHRvbnMgb2YgZm9vZCBncmFpbnMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuCmRhbWFn > ZWQgaW4gR3VqYXJhdCBhbmQgTWFoYXJhc2h0cmEgb3ZlciB0aGUgcGFzdCBkZWNhZGUKX19fX19f > X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KcmVhZGVyLWxpc3Q6IGFuIG9wZW4g > ZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBsaXN0IG9uIG1lZGlhIGFuZCB0aGUgY2l0eS4KQ3JpdGlxdWVzICYgQ29sbGFi > b3JhdGlvbnMKVG8gc3Vic2NyaWJlOiBzZW5kIGFuIGVtYWlsIHRvIHJlYWRlci1saXN0LXJlcXVl > c3RAc2FyYWkubmV0IHdpdGggc3Vic2NyaWJlIGluIHRoZSBzdWJqZWN0IGhlYWRlci4KVG8gdW5z > dWJzY3JpYmU6IGh0dHBzOi8vbWFpbC5zYXJhaS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9yZWFkZXIt > bGlzdCAKTGlzdCBhcmNoaXZlOiAmbHQ7aHR0cHM6Ly9tYWlsLnNhcmFpLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwv > cmVhZGVyLWxpc3QvPg== ___________________ Britta Ohm Postdoc University of Zurich UPRP Asia and Europe Office: Scheuchzerstr. 21 8006 Zürich Switzerland tel. +41-(0)44-634 49 61 fax. +41-(0)44-634 49 21 britta.ohm at access.uzh.ch www.asienundeuropa.uzh.ch Home: Solmsstr. 36 10961 Berlin Germany +49-(0)30-695 07 155 ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de Ekkehardstr. 18 8006 Zürich Switzerland +41-(0)43-2689077 From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 9 19:55:06 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:25:06 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomach ( Despite having a range of smart identification documents) In-Reply-To: <7F30A931-F5B8-4E95-ACF5-B507D71A19F1@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <65be9bf40901081214w395ec115o39bc9aa969061b36@mail.gmail.com> <7F30A931-F5B8-4E95-ACF5-B507D71A19F1@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901090625x9bbdfe9rddf44e23aaeeb540@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Britta Ohm wrote: > Would love to read this... > Britta > > Dear Britta, I do not know how that happened. There must be a software error some where. Nevertheless I have copied and pasted the entire post below. Please have a look. Regards Taha Dear all, The story below indicates that how even having a range of smart identification cards are no security for almost half of Gujarat's population. Gujarat- which is perhaps the most industrialized state of India and is run by Narender bhai Modi, a man who has carefully built a public persona of being hard on terror. As the story suggests in reality he could not provide for basic necessities like food for his people. Please read the excerpt below- On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project, Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almost half of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry. The story below counters the assertion that links smart identification card with just distribution of food and employment opportunities. I think that before we go for an option for National Identity Card we in India need to have a public debate on the validity of the claims put forth by the industry. Does a huge transfer of money in the name of smart cards to the corporates coffers justified? Can that money be put to use in some other way? Who benefits the most by such a transfer? Warm regards Taha http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/half-of-vibrant-gujarat-goes-to-sleep-empty-stomach/401073/ Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomach Gaurav Sharma Posted: Dec 21, 2008 at 0355 hrs IST Ahmedabad Despite tall claims on paper, cases of malnutrition, anaemia, low body mass index abound in state "It is with the core value of the Right to Food that the Gujarat government's Food, Civil Supplies and Consumer Affairs Department sets its mandate," this is the government's claim. But, according to various reports, the state's Public Distribution System (PDS) is in a shambles. On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project, Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almost half of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry. For its part, the state government has issued nearly 89.58 lakh Above Poverty Line (APL) cards and 35.51 lakh Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards. In the latter category, about 8.10 lakh cards fall under the Antyodaya Anna Yojna (AAY), which caters to the poorest of the poor. So, in all, nearly 1.33 crore ration cards have been issued in the state to ensure the availability of wheat, rice, sugar and kerosene to the poorer sections of society at highly subsidised rates. This means that ideally, the system should work like this— the Food Corporation of India (FCI) issues the PDS quota to Gujarat at a subsidised rate, which in turn further subsidises it for BPL and AAY cardholders. APL citizens get no subsidy and have to pay the market price of their share of PDS. The food goes from the national warehouses to the state warehouses where it is checked, fortified and then distributed to Fair Price Shops (FPS). Ration cardholders then pick up their quota from there. But, as the state government itself has admitted, the PDS in Gujarat have come to be known for hoarding, profiteering, poor quality, adulteration, overpricing and under weighing. The FCI allots less than the required PDS quota to Gujarat and the government doesn't even bother about it. It keeps itself busy converting more and more BPL cards to APL, apparently to showcase its efforts at improving the hunger situation in the state, at least on paper. Also, bogus cards are made at will and the PDS quota is diverted to the open market using these. This happens at both the levels of the Civil Supplies Department and the Fair Price Shops. With absolutely no checks on the FPS, these functions as autonomous bodies and are the major source of resource diversions. Such is the situation now that numerous public hearings, suo motto cognizance by the Gujarat High Court and various RTI applications have failed to bring about any change. Gujarat's Minister for Food and Civil Supplies Narattam Patel could not be contacted for comments. Alarmingly hungry * According to International Food Policy Research Institute's 2008 Global Hunger Index, Gujarat is ranked 69th along with Haiti, the nation infamous for food riots. The state is placed in the 'alarming' category. * The M S Swaminathan Research Foundation has identified urban Gujarat as 'moderately food secure' while rural Gujarat remains 'severely insecure.' * The National Family Health Survey III (NFHS-III) conveys that 42.4 per cent of children in Gujarat are suffering from stunted growth due to malnutrition. Also, about 47.4 per cent of children are underweight in the state. * NFHS-III also points out that more than half of Gujarat's population is Anaemic, with a percentage as high as 80.1 for children aged 6-35 months. * NFHS-III further states that nearly one-third of adults in Gujarat have their Body Mass Index (BMI) below the normal, 32.3 per cent for women and 28.2 per cent for men. System in a shambles but the government is in denial SC overruled * The Supreme Court had ordered on November 28, 2001 and January 10, 2008 to provide 35 kg food grains — 19 kg wheat flour and 16 kg rice — to the poorest of the poor under the Antyodaya Scheme. But the Gujarat government in its resolution dated March 24, 2008 decided to provide 16 kg rice and 16.7 kg wheat fortified flour * The government deducts 2.3 kg from the entitlement of 19 kg and passes it on to the flour mills as the cost of fortification. So, flour mills get the benefit of 24,647 tons of wheat annually at the cost of poorest of the poor Poor distribution system Public hearings in 2008 against injustices abounding in the PDS * 900 people attend a hearing organised by the Lok Adhikar Manch (supported by Action Aid) on April 30 at Anjar, Kutch. * 1,300 people attend a hearing organised by Lok Adhikar Manch on July 2 at Khavda in Kutch * 1,150 people attend a hearing organised by Sarthi (supported by Action Aid) on November 21 at Panchmahals Common grievances recorded * Large scale diversion of PDS food grains * Irregular identification and distribution of ration cards * False and fake entries on ration cards * Fair Price Shops (FPS) open for less than two weeks in a month against the stipulated 24 days Sorry state of affairs * The National Council for Applied Economic Research (NCAER), New Delhi, finds in a survey that nearly 11, 53,000 ghost/fake BPL cards have been issued in Gujarat * An ORG-Marg report commissioned by the Centre reveals that in Gujarat, about 41 per cent of rice slotted for the poor is being diverted * According to the state government, the Centre allots food grains only for 21.20 lakh families as against the 35.51 lakh BPL families, a gap for nearly 14.31 lakh families. Still, the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution confirms in reply to an RTI application that 'No representation is received from any MP, MLA, CM or Minister regarding the supply of food grains to Gujarat since the last one year.' * An analysis report dated December 26, 2007 of the Public Health Laboratory, Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation, confirms live insects, high quantity of chaff in 18 samples of fortified wheat flour supplied by FPS at various districts in Rajkot, Panchmahals, Dahod, Dwarka and Jamnagar. It is deemed unfit for human consumption. * The FCI admits in a reply to an application filed under the Right to Information Act that nearly 73,814 tons of food grains have been damaged in Gujarat and Maharashtra over the past decade _________________________________________ From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 23:22:19 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:22:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: protests against Gaza Siege In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901090951i41006dd8s4748370853cd0fe5@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901082038q37b92209ue43fd5c20982f0f4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901082340h20052d9awbef359773a3a1b0b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901090951i41006dd8s4748370853cd0fe5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901090952t5e51ab3bsf4d5c056c75cfe17@mail.gmail.com> i believe, for the benefit our own understanding, while taking about Left , we may draw a line between party politics and the Left as concept, and see how the later was liberating, and still is; helping theoreticians, social scientists and humanity to grow, to look forward, without even caring about the amount of criticism that goes against the original manifesto. there is a hope there is no such hope in the Right. with due regards to its Hard Core Believers love is On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Dear Javed, > > Instigating a riot in name of relegion is not the only was someone can be > classified as a communal. > > By repeatedly speaking against right of one particular relegion is also one > criteria for classifying someone. > > Speaking of violence , Communists do not need any introduction. They have > perhaps the longest experience in that. > > Rgds > > Pawan > > Did you notice how the communits have double standards. How Prakash avoided > a suitable answer to Mr lalits questions . Did it not expose the communists. > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM, M Javed wrote: > >> Dear Pawan >> I am not a leftist nor am I speaking for communism (which I agree is >> dead), but if you think they are the most communal people, could you >> tell us how many times have they instigated communal riots, how many >> people have they killed in communal violence, through which modes have >> they spread the communal hate in India (which all other established >> "communal" parties have been doing so far). >> >> Javed >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Pawan Durani >> wrote: >> > Prakash , >> > >> > Talking about communal politics, i would classify leftist as the most >> > communal ones. The ideology is dead and they have nowehere to go , but to >> > make desparate attempts to prove that they exist. >> > >> > The double standards of left existed before partition and they continue >> to >> > exist even now. >> > >> > Pawan >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:59 AM, prakash ray wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Lalit, >> >> >> >> No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to >> >> demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left >> parties, >> >> organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in >> Kashmir >> >> and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They >> never >> >> bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So, >> please >> >> go >> >> ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel. >> >> >> >> Prakash >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 23:44:09 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:14:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] WAR ON GAZA:The Self-Defense of Suicide Message-ID: <568477.44709.qm@web52208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Please, follow the link below: http://www.counterpunch.org/dor01012009.html Despite It's Military Might, Israel is a Weak and Dying State The Self-Defense of Suicide By OREN BEN-DOR Echoing Lebanon 2006, the people of Gaza are being butchered by murderous pilots of a murderous state. Ground forces will soon butcher many more. This widely-expected repetition of Israel’s large scale violence is carried out after a long process that was triggered when Israel unilaterally cleared its settlements and ground presence from Gaza only to create what has been described as a remote-controlled human zoo. Israel has maintained total control over Gaza’s borders, its air and sea space, its economy, its electricity, food and medical supplies. The people of Gaza have been starved, humiliated and constantly intimidated. However, whether the withdrawal was well-intended or not engages little with the reasons rockets are being defiantly shot at the Israeli towns of Sderot, Ashkelon and Beer Sheva. Beyond achieving very short term relief from rocket attacks the scale of Israel’s violence is question-begging and thought provoking. Israel’s actions, justified by the “no choice” (ein brera) and “self-defence” rhetoric, can temporarily put the lid on the volcano of hatred around Israel and within it but, after the initial shock and awe, it is surely destined to bring much more violence. Assassinating individual members of Hamas, even toppling the organisation, destroying its infrastructure and buildings, will not destroy the legitimate opposition to the arrogant and self-righteous Zionist entity. No army, however well equipped and trained, can win a combat against increasing number of people who no longer have any reason to care about dying. If there was hatred against Israelis before the Gaza massacre, the hatred after it will be of a different order of magnitude. Given the sure failure of attempts to bring about stability through violence, intimidation, starvation and humiliation, what, on earth, is the desire that moves the Israeli state? What, do Israelis imagine, will be achieved by this massacre? There must be something which is suppressed here. There must be, for Israelis, some being and thinking which is preserved, indeed defended, by the pathology of provoking a permanent state of violence against them. What kind of self-righteousness conditions this self-destructive desire to be hated? Gaza itself gives us a clue. Many of the Palestinians who live in Gaza are descendants of 750000 refugees who were expelled in 1948 from what is now the Jewish state. Ashkelon is built on the ruins of the Palestinian village of al-Majdal whose people were expelled in 1948, many to Gaza. Only by such massive ethnic cleansing could a state with a Jewish majority and character be established. Any just realisation of the refugees’ internationally recognised right of return would effectively mean the end of the Zionist project. Those who choose to return would not merely threaten the Jewish majority. Upon return, they would surely press demands for equal citizenship. In so doing, they would challenge the foundational discriminatory premise of the Jewish state, which assigns a different stake in the state to all those who pass a test of Jewishness, whether they live in the country or elsewhere. Thus, for the same reason that Israel discriminates against its own non-Jewish Arab citizens, it will prevent the return of the refugees. The proliferation and dominance of the self-defence discourse and its by-product - the uncritical acceptance of the legitimacy of the Israeli state - successfully hide the fact that Israel itself is an apartheid state which is based on an apartheid (separation) premise. In the name of this apartheid premise, occupation, dispossession and discrimination affected all Palestinians whether in Gaza, the West Bank, in Israel itself or indeed all over the world. Thus, what is in fact being “preserved” is the unwillingness, or rather the inability, of Israelis to question their own state’s apartheid foundation. The concealing mantra about Hamas’s rocket firing versus Israel’s legitimate self-defence cynically conscripts both the Palestinians of Gaza and the Israelis of Sderot. Shielding the Jewish state’s unwillingness to deal with colonial and racist Zionism is more important than all of them. Accepting the right of Israel to securely exist as a Jewish state has now become the bench mark for political moderation. Obama is already singing the song. Egalitarian anti-Zionists who challenge that right readily fail the test. This anti-Zionist voice is inclusive and moderate. It insists that injustices to Palestinians stem from the very premise of statehood that Israel is based on. Injustices to Palestinians encompass the whole of historic Palestine in a way which cannot be partitioned so that they become visible only in the territories, including Gaza, which Israel occupied in 1967. Let us, then, break the idle chatter about self-defence that merely levels “criticisms” against Israel but by that legitimises it: the origin of the violence in Gaza is intimately linked to the manner the Israeli state came into being and to the continuing toleration of the apartheid premise at its very essence. Israel should not be “reformed” or “condemned” but replaced with a single egalitarian structure over all historic Palestine. Israel needs a continuing cycle of violence. As long as this cycle is provoked through daily oppression, Israelis can sustain that haven in which they can unite behind their inability to examine their apartheid mentality. Violence maintains a zone in which that existential threat of old stifles any possibility for genuine empathy and egalitarian self-reflection. At the same time, violence is a necessary means for entrenching the purported legitimacy of what is claimed to be the only alternative to this violence. That alternative is no other than the “surprisingly” failing, “sane”, “reasonable” and “moderate” “peace process” towards two states, a process which aims to legitimise the apartheid state once and for all. The discourse has been hijacked in such a way that the urgent calls for the immediate cessation of violence resuscitate that non-starter, the essentially unjust two states project that will ensure the continuation of violence. Alas, the pathology of generating violence against oneself, violence that suspends reflection on the core apartheid, succeeds only at the price of generating enormous hatred. The Israeli pathology will bring about, stealthily and fatefully, that which the Israelis fear most.There is indeed “no choice” for the nationalistic project of the eternal victims but to commit suicide with those whom they oppress. The sublimated Zionist desire to be hated is the fuel of Israel’s unity and self-righteousness. This self-destructive nature, concealed as a desire for self defence, comes from deep and ancient forces of which Zionism is merely a symptom and a hint. That which preserves these self-destructive forces ensures that the eternal victims’ apartheid nationalisticproject will be a fleeting phenomenon. When arrested in mere nationalism, primordial victim mentality self preserves by generating collective suicide of that nationalistic project. The self-defence of suicide points out the uniqueness of the Israeli apartheid. Both the no-choice and the self-defence rhetoric contain a chilling chronicle of suicide foretold. Despite its military might, Israel is a weak and dying state that desires to destroy itself. The most powerful nations in the world assist this suicidal process and this fact calls for urgent contemplation. Oren Ben-Dor grew up in Israel and teaches Legal and Political Philosophy at the School of Law, University of Southampton, UK. His latest book, Thinking About Law: In Silence with Heidegger, was published in 2007 by Hart Publishing, Oxford. He can be reached at: okbendor at yahoo.com Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 23:47:34 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:17:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Blago's Indian Connections Message-ID: <989982.34154.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hot Rod and His "Sikh Warrior" Blago's Indian Connections By VIJAY PRASHAD In 2007, the Illinois government renamed a major freeway that links the wealthy suburbs of northern Chicago the Jane Addams Memorial Tollway. This roadway runs though the heart of northern Chicago’s urban sprawl, the expanse of concrete and glass that makes up corporate headquarters (Motorola and United Airlines) and mega-shopping centres (the Woodfield Mall and the Huntley Prime Outlets). Jane Addams, a famous social reformer, would probably not have taken kindly to her name being tied to these churches of American capitalism. The town of Schaumburg sits in the middle of this “Golden Corridor”, and in the middle of this town is the India House Restaurant. On October 31, a Konkani businessman, Raghuveer Nayak, booked India House for a private party. He hosted luminaries of Chicago’s business community, people such as pharmacy owners Harish and Renuka Bhatt, hotelier Satish “Sonny” Gabhawala, and prominent political leaders of the Indian-American community, such as Babu Patel and Iftekhar Shareef (both past presidents of the Federation of Indian Associations). Nayak, also a former head of the Federation of Indian Associations, owns a group of surgical centres. A highly regarded Democratic Party fund-raiser, Nayak is also a friend of another person who attended the lunch, Rajinder Bedi, an aide to Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich (the Governor calls Bedi “My Sikh Warrior”). In addition, among the few who are not Indian American, the party included Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr.’s brother Jonathan. Governor Blagojevich made a brief appearance. People who attended the party made it clear, anonymously, that Nayak brought them together to put his friend Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr.’s name up for the Senate. It had become clear that Senator Barack Obama would win the presidential contest to be held the next week, and these deep pockets realised that his elevation would open the Senate seat. The Governor of Illinois would have the right to fill the seat until the next election cycle. Nayak, Bedi, Bhatt and others wanted to put in a good word for their friend, Congressman Jackson. Gabhawala told Chicago Tribune that he saw Bedi and Nayak try to convince Babu Patel, a Blagojevich fund-raiser, to use his influence and money on Jackson’s behalf. In a country whose highest court decided that political donations are a form of free speech, it is to be expected that you cannot put in a word for someone without opening your wallet. According to a federal indictment and to reliable sources at the meeting, the fund-raisers promised to raise over a million dollars towards Blagojevich, who would then nominate Jackson to fill Obama’s Senate seat. Later that day, a federal government wiretap caught the Governor saying, “We were approached pay-to-play, that, you know, he’d raise me 500 grand. An emissary came. Then the other guy would raise a million, if I made him a Senator.” On December 4, the Governor met with “Advisor B” (as he is named in the criminal complaint) and told him that “Senate Candidate 5” (Jesse Jackson Jr.) would get “greater consideration” because of a surety that No. 5 would help Blagojevich raise money and that he would give him “some [money] up front, maybe.” Blagojevich wanted something “tangible” now because “some of this stuff’s gotta start happening now… right now… and we gotta see it. You understand?” Two days later, a month after Obama’s victorious election, the principal fund-raisers from the India House gathering came to a suburban home in Elmhurst, another of the wealthy suburban towns that ring Chicago. Here, according to Chicago Tribune, the Indian-American businessmen discussed raising $1 million to $1.5 million. At the October 31 fund-raiser, Nayak had already made it clear to Bhatt that he could find half a million, but Bhatt and others would have to come up with the other half million. The December 4 meeting apparently made this vision reality. Right after Obama’s election, Blagojevich said, “I want to make some money.” He was agnostic about whom he would nominate to Obama’s seat as long as he would get some tangible benefit from the act. Obama’s team, by all accounts, refused to barter the seat although questions remain about the contact between Obama’s Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and the Blagojevich people. Jackson says that he had limited contact with Blagojevich, and when the scandal broke, he said, “I did not initiate nor authorise anyone, at any time, to promise anything to Gov. Blagojevich on my behalf. I never sent a message or an emissary to the Governor to make an offer or to propose a deal about the U.S. Senate seat.” Federal officials arrested Blagojevich on December 9 on charges of corruption. He is now out on bail, facing an impeachment motion in the Illinois legislature. The spotlight turned, briefly, on the Indian-American community in Chicago. These men, Nayak, Bhatt and Bedi, were a sideshow to the greater scandals, which were how much Jackson knew and what kind of contact Obama’s transition team had with Blagojevich. Over the years, Blagojevich and Jackson had cultivated the increasingly affluent Indian-American community in Chicago. Blagojevich had a fruitful relationship with the banker Amrish Mahajan and his wife, the businesswoman Anita Mahajan. “Uncle Amrish”, as many know him, came to prominence through his close ties with the Parrillo family (a political clan that is linked to the Chicago mafia). Mahajan rose to the head of Mutual Bank, whose well-heeled customers donated money to politicians anointed by the Mahajans. Blagojevich was a major beneficiary, as money entered his campaign war chest, and his wife, Patti, earned huge real estate contracts from the Mahajan circle. In 2007, the government arrested and charged Anita Mahajan with overbilling the State for millions of dollars on her State contract. Harish Bhatt’s pharmacies are currently under investigation on the grounds that Bhatt’s fund-raising for Blagojevich turned into phone calls to regulators to lay off from their investigation of fraud. All of this has frazzled the Indian-American community. Nayak is a well-regarded businessman and a philanthropist. His charity includes setting up hospitals in India and raising funds for tsunami relief. Nayak’s closest ties are with the Jackson family. He won the PUSH Excellence for Public Service award from Jesse Jackson’s Operation Push and accompanied Jackson to India in November 2007. (Nayak organised a lecture by Jackson at Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi.) In addition, Nayak brought the main Chicago Democrats into the India Caucus and was a booster for the India-U.S. nuclear deal. Nayak, Mahajan, Bedi, Bhatt and others are all close allies who have leveraged their political connections for economic gain and used that money to strengthen their political heft. Everything that the Indian Americans did is customary. Political campaigns have become overwhelmingly expensive. The 2008 presidential race cost more than $1 billion. In addition, elected officials live within the social confines of the very wealthy and often aspire to their lifestyle. Even as more and more millionaires run for public office, the bulk of the elected officials do not win on the strength of family wealth. Their jobs do not provide them with the kind of funds to earn the six- or seven-figure salaries that they would need to fulfil their upwardly mobile aspirations. Scandals are now commonplace. The fallout from the sleazy pay-to-play empire set up by the lobbyist Jack Abramoff continues to resonate through Washington, D.C., notably inside the Republican Party (many of whose elected officials, such as Congressman Randy Cunningham, are now in prison). Near my town, in western Massachusetts, a contractor goes to see the local Mayor to deliver his regular payment of $5,000. The Mayor, Richard Goyette, stops him. “What, no envelope?” he asks, stuffing the money into his pockets. In a federal wiretap, Goyette complains about those who had to pay him to earn city contracts, “They’re all greedy.” The symbiotic relationship between money and power is evident regardless of the scale, from a small municipal contract to the large no-bid contracts for firms to operate in Iraq (such as Vice-President Dick Cheney’s Halliburton). Sleaze is characteristic of American politics, and it is one of the principal reasons for the lack of faith among the population in their elected officials and in the political process in general. Large numbers of people refuse to vote on election day for precisely the reason that they do not trust the process. Their withdrawal allows the connected and the wealthy to make the system their own, cynically. Obama’s election raised hopes and brought large numbers of people to the polls. Millions hope that it will turn the page on the corruption at all levels of government. The Blagojevich scandal is a reality check, a reminder of how widespread corruption has become. Obama’s link to Blagojevich threatens to revive a sense of hopelessness. Blagojevich’s various scandals are quite pedestrian in today’s America. One of them is that he wanted a payoff for the expansion of the Jane Addams Tollway. That deal did not happen over samosas and masala tea. But others did. When Obama won, Blagojevich recognized quickly that he had a “golden” opportunity, a goose that could lay a million eggs in one swoop. The larger the deal, the less the squalor. Three of the past six Illinois governors spent time in jail for corruption, so the odds were always against Blagojevich. His affinity with the Indian Americans is not just for their money but also because both share the hunger of immigrants (Blagojevich is the son of a Serbian immigrant and a working-class American woman). Just as Bedi, Nayak, Bhatt and Mahajan turned to Blagojevich for their ascent, he was gifted by marriage to the politically connected Mell family. Money, power, family: this is as much a Hollywood as a Bollywood drama. Vijay Prashad is the George and Martha Kellner Chair of South Asian History and Director of International Studies at Trinity College, Hartford, CT His new book is The Darker Nations: A People's History of the Third World, New York: The New Press, 2007. He can be reached at: vijay.prashad at trincoll.edu Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 00:06:41 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:36:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] WAR ON GAZA: If Hamas Did Not Exist Message-ID: <308043.11622.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> For those who argues that the genocide in Gaza is an action by a 'democratic' nation-state to protect itself from the terror of 'terrorists'.... [http://www.counterpunch.org/loewenstein01012009.html] Israel Has No Intention of Granting a Palestinian State If Hamas Did Not Exist By JENNIFER LOEWENSTEIN Let us get one thing perfectly straight. If the wholesale mutilation and degradation of the Gaza Strip is going to continue; if Israel’s will is at one with that of the United States; if the European Union, Russia, the United Nations and all the international legal agencies and organizations spread across the globe are going to continue to sit by like hollow mannequins doing nothing but making repeated “calls” for a “ceasefire” on “both sides”; if the cowardly, obsequious and supine Arab States are going to stand by watching their brethren get slaughtered by the hour while the world’s bullying Superpower eyes them threateningly from Washington lest they say something a little to their disliking; then let us at least tell the truth why this hell on earth is taking place. The state terror unleashed from the skies and on the ground against the Gaza Strip as we speak has nothing to do with Hamas. It has nothing to do with “Terror”. It has nothing to do with the long-term “security” of the Jewish State or with Hizbullah or Syria or Iran except insofar as it is aggravating the conditions that have led up to this crisis today. It has nothing to do with some conjured-up “war” – a cynical and overused euphemism that amounts to little more the wholesale enslavement of any nation that dares claim its sovereign rights; that dares assert that its resources are its own; that doesn’t want one of the Empire’s obscene military bases sitting on its cherished land. This crisis has nothing to do with freedom, democracy, justice or peace. It is not about Mahmoud Zahhar or Khalid Mash’al or Ismail Haniyeh. It is not about Hassan Nasrallah or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. These are all circumstantial players who have gained a role in the current tempest only now that the situation has been allowed for 61 years to develop into the catastrophe that it is today. The Islamist factor has colored and will continue to color the atmosphere of the crisis; it has enlisted the current leaders and mobilized wide sectors of the world’s population. The primary symbols today are Islamic – the mosques, the Qur’an, the references to the Prophet Muhammad and to Jihad. But these symbols could disappear and the impasse would continue. There was a time when Fatah and the PFLP held the day; when few Palestinians wanted anything to do with Islamist policies and politics. Such politics have nothing to do with primitive rockets being fired over the border, or smuggling tunnels and black-market weapons; just as Arafat’s Fatah had little to do with stones and suicide bombings. The associations are coincidental; the creations of a given political environment. They are the result of something entirely different than what the lying politicians and their analysts are telling you. They have become part of the landscape of human events in the modern Middle East today; but incidentals wholly as lethal, or as recalcitrant, deadly, angry or incorrigible could just as soon have been in their places. Strip away the clichés and the vacuous newspeak blaring out across the servile media and its pathetic corps of voluntary state servants in the Western world and what you will find is the naked desire for hegemony; for power over the weak and dominion over the world’s wealth. Worse yet you will find that the selfishness, the hatred and indifference, the racism and bigotry, the egotism and hedonism that we try so hard to cover up with our sophisticated jargon, our refined academic theories and models actually help to guide our basest and ugliest desires. The callousness with which we in indulge in them all are endemic to our very culture; thriving here like flies on a corpse. Strip away the current symbols and language of the victims of our selfish and devastating whims and you will find the simple, impassioned and unaffected cries of the downtrodden; of the ‘wretched of the earth’ begging you to cease your cold aggression against their children and their homes; their families and their villages; begging you to leave them alone to have their fish and their bread, their oranges, their olives and their thyme; asking you first politely and then with increasing disbelief why you cannot let them live undisturbed on the land of their ancestors; unexploited, free of the fear of expulsion; of ravishment and devastation; free of permits and roadblocks and checkpoints and crossings; of monstrous concrete walls, guard towers, concrete bunkers, and barbed wire; of tanks and prisons and torture and death. Why is life without these policies and instruments of hell impossible? The answer is because Israel has no intention of allowing a viable, sovereign Palestinian state on its borders. It had no intention of allowing it in 1948 when it grabbed 24 per cent more land than what it was allotted legally, if unfairly, by UN Resolution 181. It had no intention of allowing it throughout the massacres and ploys of the 1950s. It had no intention of allowing two states when it conquered the remaining 22 per cent of historic Palestine in 1967 and reinterpreted UN Security Council Resolution 248 to its own liking despite the overwhelming international consensus stating that Israel would receive full international recognition within secure and recognized borders if it withdrew from the lands it had only recently occupied. It had no intention of acknowledging Palestinian national rights at the United Nations in 1974, when –alone with the United States—it voted against a two-state solution. It had no intention of allowing a comprehensive peace settlement when Egypt stood ready to deliver but received, and obediently accepted, a separate peace exclusive of the rights of Palestinians and the remaining peoples of the region. It had no intention of working toward a just two-state solution in 1978 or 1982 when it invaded, fire-bombed, blasted and bulldozed Beirut so that it might annex the West Bank without hassle. It had no intention of granting a Palestinian state in 1987 when the first Intifada spread across occupied Palestine, into the Diaspora and the into the spirits of the global dispossessed, or when Israel deliberately aided the newly formed Hamas movement so that it might undermine the strength of the more secular-nationalist factions. Israel had no intention of granting a Palestinian state at Madrid or at Oslo where the PLO was superseded by the quivering, quisling Palestinian Authority, too many of whose cronies grasped at the wealth and prestige it gave them at the expense of their own kin. As Israel beamed into the world’s satellites and microphones its desire for peace and a two-state solution, it more than doubled the number of illegal Jewish settlements on the ground in the West Bank and around East Jerusalem, annexing them as it built and continues to build a superstructure of bypass roads and highways over the remaining, severed cities and villages of earthly Palestine. It has annexed the Jordan valley, the international border of Jordan, expelling any ‘locals’ inhabiting that land. It speaks with a viper’s tongue over the multiple amputee of Palestine whose head shall soon be severed from its body in the name of justice, peace and security. Through the home demolitions, the assaults on civil society that attempted to cast Palestinian history and culture into a chasm of oblivion; through the unspeakable destruction of the refugee camp sieges and infrastructure bombardments of the second Intifada, through assassinations and summary executions, past the grandiose farce of disengagement and up to the nullification of free, fair and democratic Palestinian elections Israel has made its view known again and again in the strongest possible language, the language of military might, of threats, intimidation, harassment, defamation and degradation. Israel, with the unconditional and approving support of the United States, has made it dramatically clear to the entire world over and over and over again, repeating in action after action that it will accept no viable Palestinian state next to its borders. What will it take for the rest of us to hear? What will it take to end the criminal silence of the ‘international community’? What will it take to see past the lies and indoctrination to what is taking place before us day after day in full view of the eyes of the world? The more horrific the actions on the ground, the more insistent are the words of peace. To listen and watch without hearing or seeing allows the indifference, the ignorance and complicity to continue and deepens with each grave our collective shame. The destruction of Gaza has nothing to do with Hamas. Israel will accept no authority in the Palestinian territories that it does not ultimately control. Any individual, leader, faction or movement that fails to accede to Israel’s demands or that seeks genuine sovereignty and the equality of all nations in the region; any government or popular movement that demands the applicability of international humanitarian law and of the universal declaration of human rights for its own people will be unacceptable for the Jewish State. Those dreaming of one state must be forced to ask themselves what Israel would do to a population of 4 million Palestinians within its borders when it commits on a daily, if not hourly basis, crimes against their collective humanity while they live alongside its borders? What will suddenly make the raison d’etre, the self-proclaimed purpose of Israel’s reason for being change if the Palestinian territories are annexed to it outright? The lifeblood of the Palestinian National Movement flows through the streets of Gaza today. Every drop that falls waters the soil of vengeance, bitterness and hatred not only in Palestine but across the Middle East and much of the world. We do have a choice over whether or not this should continue. Now is the time to make it. Jennifer Loewenstein is the Associate Director of the Middle East Studies Program at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She can be reached at amadea311 at earthlink.net Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 00:08:40 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:38:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] WAR ON GAZA: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask Message-ID: <453518.36270.qm@web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> [http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html] Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask Wednesday, 7 January 2009 So once again, Israel has opened the gates of hell to the Palestinians. Forty civilian refugees dead in a United Nations school, three more in another. Not bad for a night's work in Gaza by the army that believes in "purity of arms". But why should we be surprised? Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead – almost all civilians, most of them children and women – in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in the Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees, more than half of them children, at a UN base; the massacre of the Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by the Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter crew; the 1,000 dead of that same 2006 bombardment and Lebanese invasion, almost all of them civilians? What is amazing is that so many Western leaders, so many presidents and prime ministers and, I fear, so many editors and journalists, bought the old lie; that Israelis take such great care to avoid civilian casualties. "Israel makes every possible effort to avoid civilian casualties," yet another Israeli ambassador said only hours before the Gaza massacre. And every president and prime minister who repeated this mendacity as an excuse to avoid a ceasefire has the blood of last night's butchery on their hands. Had George Bush had the courage to demand an immediate ceasefire 48 hours earlier, those 40 civilians, the old and the women and children, would be alive. What happened was not just shameful. It was a disgrace. Would war crime be too strong a description? For that is what we would call this atrocity if it had been committed by Hamas. So a war crime, I'm afraid, it was. After covering so many mass murders by the armies of the Middle East – by Syrian troops, by Iraqi troops, by Iranian troops, by Israeli troops – I suppose cynicism should be my reaction. But Israel claims it is fighting our war against "international terror". The Israelis claim they are fighting in Gaza for us, for our Western ideals, for our security, for our safety, by our standards. And so we are also complicit in the savagery now being visited upon Gaza. I've reported the excuses the Israeli army has served up in the past for these outrages. Since they may well be reheated in the coming hours, here are some of them: that the Palestinians killed their own refugees, that the Palestinians dug up bodies from cemeteries and planted them in the ruins, that ultimately the Palestinians are to blame because they supported an armed faction, or because armed Palestinians deliberately used the innocent refugees as cover. The Sabra and Chatila massacre was committed by Israel's right-wing Lebanese Phalangist allies while Israeli troops, as Israel's own commission of inquiry revealed, watched for 48 hours and did nothing. When Israel was blamed, Menachem Begin's government accused the world of a blood libel. After Israeli artillery had fired shells into the UN base at Qana in 1996, the Israelis claimed that Hizbollah gunmen were also sheltering in the base. It was a lie. The more than 1,000 dead of 2006 – a war started when Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on the border – were simply dismissed as the responsibility of the Hizbollah. Israel claimed the bodies of children killed in a second Qana massacre may have been taken from a graveyard. It was another lie. The Marwahin massacre was never excused. The people of the village were ordered to flee, obeyed Israeli orders and were then attacked by an Israeli gunship. The refugees took their children and stood them around the truck in which they were travelling so that Israeli pilots would see they were innocents. Then the Israeli helicopter mowed them down at close range. Only two survived, by playing dead. Israel didn't even apologise. Twelve years earlier, another Israeli helicopter attacked an ambulance carrying civilians from a neighbouring village – again after they were ordered to leave by Israel – and killed three children and two women. The Israelis claimed that a Hizbollah fighter was in the ambulance. It was untrue. I covered all these atrocities, I investigated them all, talked to the survivors. So did a number of my colleagues. Our fate, of course, was that most slanderous of libels: we were accused of being anti-Semitic. And I write the following without the slightest doubt: we'll hear all these scandalous fabrications again. We'll have the Hamas-to-blame lie – heaven knows, there is enough to blame them for without adding this crime – and we may well have the bodies-from-the-cemetery lie and we'll almost certainly have the Hamas-was-in-the-UN-school lie and we will very definitely have the anti-Semitism lie. And our leaders will huff and puff and remind the world that Hamas originally broke the ceasefire. It didn't. Israel broke it, first on 4 November when its bombardment killed six Palestinians in Gaza and again on 17 November when another bombardment killed four more Palestinians. Yes, Israelis deserve security. Twenty Israelis dead in 10 years around Gaza is a grim figure indeed. But 600 Palestinians dead in just over a week, thousands over the years since 1948 – when the Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin helped to kick-start the flight of Palestinians from that part of Palestine that was to become Israel – is on a quite different scale. This recalls not a normal Middle East bloodletting but an atrocity on the level of the Balkan wars of the 1990s. And of course, when an Arab bestirs himself with unrestrained fury and takes out his incendiary, blind anger on the West, we will say it has nothing to do with us. Why do they hate us, we will ask? But let us not say we do not know the answer. Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 00:29:53 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:59:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty Message-ID: <700121.46281.qm@web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> An insightful piece that could introduce us to the comfort of the discomfort... [http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/12/15/violence-publicity-and-sovereignty/] Mumbai 11/26: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty posted by Arvind Rajagopal Mumbai’s Gateway of India was built to greet King Edward V of England when he arrived in 1911 for the Delhi Durbar, to inaugurate the new capital city. Like the new capital, the Gateway in Mumbai symbolized civilizational progress for the empire on which the sun never set. However, Britain’s empire was established through the fluidity of maritime space, and piracy on the high seas was a crucial means through which the older imperium of Spain and Portugal was challenged in the 16th century. Lawless violence often preceded the rule of law. Queen Elizabeth I bestowed knighthoods on Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh and other “privateers,” all entrepreneurs who advanced state power. British sovereignty was thus founded on non-state actors, the most famous of which was the East India Company, whose lawless incursions provoked the demand for the rule of law. Today we are once more at a time when lawless violence proliferates and territorial boundaries are infringed upon, when state leaders invoke “non-state actors” and argue for the need to respond in kind. Are new political formations taking shape in our midst, even as we defend the old order? On November 26, 2008, terrorists arrived by sea and entered near the Gateway, making an entrance not unlike the pirates of yesteryear. The event is described as India’s 9/11, with enemy intruders committing murder and mayhem. “9/11″ has become a nationalizing mantra across the globe, an invocation to remember violence in order to garner consent for violent retaliation. In an earlier age non-state actors, such as pirates, merged with the state. Today the state mimics the behavior of private parties, justifying violence as revenge and practicing torture as the just desserts of terrorists. War has become the preferred means of practicing politics under the guise of opposing terrorism, and it is endorsed as a sacred duty. In the rush to affiliate the Mumbai attacks with the global war on terror, some point to Pakistan as the root cause. Calling these attacks “India’s 9/11″ bolsters the demand that the country strike hard and fast, although the global nature of terrorism may involve an outsourcing of retribution. This speaks to both the long-standing failures of the Indian state and to the increasing discrimination in civil society and the media against Muslims. Many have said that the attacks are part of a pattern of revenge for repeated anti-Muslim violence in different parts of the country that were led by Hindu nationalists, most prominently in 1992 and in 2002. None of the guilty Hindu parties in either of these situations were brought to book. The violent response to the Hindu nationalists’ carnage in 1992, which left more than one thousand dead, was conceived and financed by people in Karachi and Dubai. Mumbai, at the time, was the third corner of the economic and cultural zone formed by these cities, and thus was a logical choice of target. When the attack was initiated by Muslims the perpetrators were pursued with abundant vigor, and numerous innocents were punished along with some guilty men. The recent events are only the latest of numerous attacks in cities across India. In Mumbai alone 209 people were killed in bombed suburban trains in 2006, and blasts in 1993 killed more than 250. As the Indian state continually fails to provide justice, private parties have chosen to settle accounts through public violence. The message this violence has conveyed is that if the Indian state will not protect Muslim citizens, their allies close by will try and do so. The culmination of this violent exchange has been further mimetic violence, this time by the state. In 2002, state authorities in Gujarat aided in the massacre of more than two thousand Muslims, in retaliation for sixty Hindus killed. Census rolls and municipal records were used to strike at Muslim homes and businesses, the sacrificial victims in the Gujarat state’s successful electoral campaigns. In turn, other cities have been targeted for further retaliatory terror attacks. As national boundaries become more fluid and politics render nation-states less capable of representing their citizens, cities turn into battle zones and urban spaces are weaponized. Cities suffer from severe economic and social segregation, and the slums of the poor are demolished in the name of urban beautification, moved to the city outskirts, squeezed by high-rises, and bypassed by flyovers that render ghettos invisible to the privileged. Muslim residents in India are overwhelmingly concentrated in such areas, and, in episodes of Hindu nationalist violence, have been the principal victims of assaults. In Ahmedabad, in many ways a sister city to Mumbai’s Gujarati financial elite and professional classes, the anti-Muslim violence in 2002 was almost entirely contained in the older, eastern half of the city, leaving the more affluent western part of the city largely unscathed. Muslims in India have, for some time, been treated as internal enemies, through a combination of covert and overt socio-economic boycotts, state discrimination, episodes of intense political violence, and anti-terror legislation granting judicial powers to police. Those who participated in the November attacks in Mumbai were reportedly shown films of the Gujarat killings, as well as others, such as the demolition of Babri Masjid in 1992, as part of their indoctrination during training. A Muslim school teacher in Naroda Patia, one of the worst-affected areas during the Gujarat violence, spoke to me indignantly about experiencing one such boycott combined with rampant discrimination: “The people who treat us like this—I will not say that they are alive. If they simply believe what they are told, and treat human beings as if they did not exist, where is the spirit of life in them? I will say they are dead people.” Violence is not limited to the physical act of killing. It can be carried out through forms of interaction and through the refusal to acknowledge the humanity of others. The restoration of order may not bring peace so much as serve to store and delay the release of violent energies, in a circuit that brings politics and everyday life into intimate contact. Muslims in many parts of the country have experienced ostracism amounting to social death, and are pushed to the very margins of the economy. In 2006 The Justice Sachar Committee reported that the condition of Muslims had deteriorated to such a point that they were worse off than the untouchable caste, which has traditionally occupied the lowest rung of Indian society. The recent terror strikes may be Pakistani or transnational in their financing and implementation, but the urban geography in which it unfolded can be recognized from previous episodes of a more domestic violence. The difference is that this time, as in 1993, rich areas, not poor ones, were targeted. In both sets of cases, violence in media-dark ghettos has been followed by violence in the most public and media-bright parts of the city. The conception and execution of terrorism is both a method of violence and a method of publicity. Media Effects The media has expanded rapidly in India in recent years—with nearly two-thirds of the country now watching television with some regularity—which has made it into one of the principal motors of the economy. This tertiary ‘service sector’ industry has become more profitable than the primary or secondary sectors. The attacks this past November are the first terror attacks in India to occur under the full glare of media spotlights, and, after many years of state-controlled media, in an era in which private broadcasters dominate the airwaves. Dozens of 24-hour news channels vie for the Indian audience, many of them subsidiaries of transnational media corporations. Few television markets in developing countries have witnessed such competition in news; it represents an attempt by businesses to capture the premium audience segment (which disproportionately tunes into news programs) while the entry costs are still relatively low, and viewer preferences are unformed. In the past, when such violence occurred, the first response by the state-controlled media would be a news blackout, followed by terse and occasional news bulletins aimed at the political management of the situation; public safety took second place to the self-preservation of the ruling party. Citizens had to rely on rumors for information, and of course the source was never certain. Although there was often alarm and panic, any citizen responses were necessarily more diffuse. The role of an organized response was reserved for the state, which controlled the instruments of mass communication. Since private media emerged, bomb blasts have occurred and drawn media attention, but these broadcasts always began after the explosions were over. The same was true for armed assaults, such as the attack on the Parliament buildings in New Delhi in December, 2001; news coverage had to diagnose dormant scenes of the crime, and thus lacked the capacity to retain audiences. The latest attacks in Mumbai, by comparison, have received saturation coverage. There is no doubt that those who designed the attacks drew on the idea that the media constitutes war by other means; live action news about violence is akin to sequenced bomb blasts that can retain audiences for a length of time. Executed during the Thanksgiving holidays and located in tourist venues and heritage monuments, clearly including American and British persons in their targets, these attacks stretched over days. A global audience was envisaged for these attacks. The volume of coverage inevitably magnified the impact of the violence, prolonging its duration and escalating its rhetoric. The recent events are routinely described as India’s worst-ever terror attack, which not only ignores the greater toll of the 1993 blasts, but assumes that the numerous episodes of violence against Muslims, that claimed many hundreds more lives and often took place with the covert or overt support of law-enforcement agencies, did not constitute “terror.” The question that has transfixed the media and provoked a demand for an answer is: who sponsored the killings, and how will they be caught? The question of why terror was launched was seldom asked, so habituated and dependent are the media to the spectacle of violence. The view of the media is akin to that of a policeman—the point is to catch the culprit. With terrorism, the news media, and the police—and should we add, the judiciary?—seem to have merged together. We get information about attacks planned in Pakistan, emerging from the interrogation of the one attacker caught alive. No one can be under any illusion that this information comes from anywhere other than a torture chamber, but that vital and complicating bit of news is omitted. Also omitted is the possibility of Salafi funding from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere for the suspected groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Muhammad and Jamaat-ud-Dawa, whose names keep changing. The tense but complicitous relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia, that helps to preserve absolutist rule in that country, is far too academic a point to even be mentioned in the police drama unfolded by television news. After many years of protesting state-controlled broadcasting, private news media now sets the terms of discourse on Indian airwaves, but the result is not what was foreseen by free speech advocates. Instead of official propaganda, which no one believed, audiences in India now get crime news, which sidesteps the tedium of argument and party line and spotlights violence instead. Violence, when it occurs, is ideally meant to confirm that the law is being enforced. When violence is in defiance of the law and intended as a spectacle, the harm is physical as well as symbolic—the ability of the law to control public space is challenged. We might say that the intention of such terrorism is to drive a wedge between the law and its representation, as well as to unsettle our understanding of the relationship between violence and visibility. To be seen in a public space could be to enter the crosshairs of a killer, whereas to remain invisible is safe. Terrorism thus inverts our understanding of the meaning of publicity, making the visible a site of persistent danger and of suspended legality. While the state invokes non-state actors to authorize new forms of political intervention, the media take on increasingly state-like characteristics. Despite being unelected representatives, their demands have more effect. Previous episodes of violence in Mumbai, e.g. in 1993, made no difference to the tenure of political leaders at that time, although numerous allegations were made against some of them. Although the death toll is smaller on this occasion, the Union Home Minister and the Chief Minister of Maharashtra have had to summarily vacate their offices, largely in response to a media-generated furor against them. In fact, the actions of the media’s state-like behavior focus on results over accountability, on retribution over restitution, on drama over the tedium of fact-finding, and, most of all, on sympathy for the upwardly mobile middle and upper classes over the (often unseen) victims of violence, poverty, immiseration and political terror. What is manifest in this process is elite power; the media in India is only nominally public. A majority of the population may watch television, but it is the elite who own the space and dictate the terms of its discourse. The news routines do not even pretend to be egalitarian. In the recent attacks hardly any attention was paid to the railway station where sixty people were killed. TV crews stayed focused on the luxury hotels, where “People Like Us” were affected. In responses to terrorism state power is exercised in secrecy, while elite power becomes bolder and claims for itself the mantle of the public as a whole. Politicians are vilified as a group and their judgment is scorned, as media celebrities offer their wisdom on national security. Meanwhile, there is little sign of responses being planned or conducted by the state; torture and encounter killings do not make the news, and counter-insurgency operations occur off-camera and through third-party and non-verifiable sources. A Possible Politics The globalization of media has led to an increased overlapping of news angles by Indian and western news markets, and the recent attacks reflect this, as the elites in Mumbai ask where their Rudy Giuliani is to spearhead their charge after the attacks, assuming that they too must respond “like America.” We have also witnessed the remarkable attempt by some American commentators to locate the cause of violence in a civilizational clash between Hindus and Muslims, akin to the alleged clash between Islam and Christendom. In this improbable interpretation, pagan Hindus are on the side of Christendom against Islam, although the latter two faiths profess a religion of the book, while Hinduism is polytheistic and fissiparous. As a waning superpower struggles for political leverage in a multipolar world, it is not surprising to see a search for the means of making foreign conflicts tractable to the existing geopolitical vision of the United States. If we are to take democracy seriously, however, the question is not only what identities people respond to, but what we wish them to become. The problem, in other words, is not only an anthropological one, of classifying the different peoples of the world, but also a political one, of indicating what kind of world we would like them to belong to. Democratization everywhere effects a transformation in identities; people have a right not only to improve their lives, but to choose the terms in which they express them. Against the democratization of terror we must assert a politics of humanity, although the terms in which to do so are hardly transparent. We grant humanity to those made visible to the law, but new technologies of publicity disclose the presence of those denied legality, albeit through criminal acts. If outlaws once laid the basis for law, today the challenge before the law is to respond not only to the terrorist, but as well to the migrant, the slum-dweller, the uprooted peasant and other victims of industrial development, and the religious and ethnic minority. The growing separation between politics and publicity, between those who are visible and subject to the law and those who are invisible or who force themselves into visibility, requires us to constantly reconsider who has a right to politics and who is to be denied it, and on what grounds. This entry was posted on Monday, December 15th, 2008 at 11:40 am and is filed under Mumbai 11/26. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed. 4 Responses to “Violence, publicity, and sovereignty” Nandan Maluste: December 16th, 2008 at 1:32 am Excellent insightful piece. Would be enhanced by notice of: 1.The Sachar Committee which reported that the mass of Muslims in India have been socially, educationally and economically excluded. 2.Naxalism which exists in a third of India’s 600+ districts and dominant in over 70. It could be regarded as a violent product of the alienation experienced by the rural poor who are rarely high caste Hindus. 3. Six decade old border disputes between India and Pakistan. These have spawned three open wars and many covert ones. 4. The absurd focus of Indian security forces: the Special Protection Group (guarding Sonia Gandhi and some five immediate relatives plus the Prime Minister) is reported by the Times of India to have a budget exceeding that of the National Security Guard which should protect the other billion people in India (including, presumably, ministers with special protection). Further, the NSG is located solely in Delhi! 5. The opportunities to correct the above. These are presented by rapid economic growth, embrace of education by Muslims and generally by all Indians, Indo-Pak efforts at reconciliation brokered by the Bush administration, Right to Information Act, the new activism of the middle class, etc. Somita Sen: December 16th, 2008 at 6:36 am An excellent piece—the final formulation—the separation of politics from publicity is a very interesting one indeed that I will need to think about some more. You trouble here the easy assumption that a quest for publicity is a form of politics. As far as I can remember, ever since the Jessica Lal murder case and the galvanizing role played by media in it, private 24 hours news media seems to have emerged, as you astutely note, as a police force. The emphasis on force. Very intriguing suggestion that the media is behaving here like the state insofar as it is attempting to institute the rule of law. So all exposes are always about a corrupt, incompetent government on the one hand and the frustrated but empowered citizen on the other ready to go to battle against this corrupt government. All Indian media strikes me as being like a Michael Moore movie—bristling with the need for answers, justice and so on and hoping to achieve this by sticking a mike in front of some pol’s face. To take a more Indian example, it is as if all our trusty reporters are like that 1980s TV character “Rajani”—who rushed headlong where angels feared to tread! I am also struck by how little information the news channels provide, how stripped down their programing is. The same screaming reporters, the smooth anchor, the desi-techno theme music and digital effects mad screen design. Repeated over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing is ever fleshed out. It would seem as though these outfits have like zero research departments. Hardly any experts. Just LIVENESS. And all the legitimacy seems to flow from the brute fact of this LIVENESS. We are there in real time. So it must be real. It was very interesting to see as the attacks unfolded how the complete absence of “facts,” was made up for the relentless presence of affect. I wonder how the evident passion of the journalist—that frantic emphasis—ultimately generates, again, the legitimacy of the call for justice. To what extent does the promise of media affect attract those invisible, forsaken subjects? States are such affectless creatures. At least the Indian state has been pretty phlegmatic in its media presentations. But this media as state sure knows how to feel. Ambi Parameswaran: December 17th, 2008 at 11:44 pm A very eloquent piece. Disturbing reading. I think you may be on to something big, especially about news television and its many headed Hydraness. The issue with television news is the lack of a control on them; unlike press which has a Press Council which is a self regulatory organization, TV roams free creating its own forms of panic. People in the know feel that Mumbai authorities should have controlled the media a lot better, but that said, media too seemed to have behaved quite irresponsibly, often provoking panelist to mouth pseudo-jingoistic thrash. Over the last few months India has been seeing its homegrown terrorists causing their own breed of mayhem. The IM, Indian Mujahideen, have become a scary part of the scene. At least this attack was master minded by overseas forces. Your point about muslims getting more and more ostracized is well taken. This time around, we could see muslim groups openly demonstrating against the terrorists. Hopefully the Indian Muslims are doing their bit to avoid being painted with the same brush. That danger still remains. Azhar Aslam: December 25th, 2008 at 11:28 am This is a very frank, insightful and honest opinion. I am saddened that pieces like this are not circulating widely among subcontinental internet sites and media. It puts the picture in perspective and takes the sting out of jingoistic anti-Pakistani stance of Indian media and politicians. It is also disturbing that Indian government has tried its fullest to take ”advantage” of human misery in its own country and of its own people and made this a “Pakistan-centric” event. When it should have been paying attention to healing its own wounds, India has seen it as an opportunity to salt these wounds and create fresh ones. As far as certain parts of Indian media/intellectuals/politicians triumvirate, who want India to respond in an American manner, they need to consider the following: A. Is this the way India is going to declare to the world that it has turned into a regional or world super power? what is this complex about being “Like America”? B. India it seems is following in USSR tradition and trying to create an aura of invincibility for its own ego satisfaction without considering the hundreds of millions of its citizens who are hungry,poor and destitute. This is no more than a sign of serious inferiority complex and insecurity of its own identity. C. What has the world turned into after the American response? Its not as if the world has become a safer or better place that this response should be imitated. D. The signs of being super in power are maturity and sagacity. It is to reach out and stand against terrorism of any kind and take smaller countries in the region with her. It is to lead. But has India done any of it? No sir. So forget about being super in power. Just set your house in order. Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 00:44:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:14:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-49 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901091114h97fdb73ndbef9a0bcaa4ce31@mail.gmail.com> http://www.prweb.com/releases/india/tano_capital/prweb800134.htm PR World Tano Capital Invests $7.4 Million Into India Based Anil Printers Limited SAN MATEO, Calif. (Business Wire EON/PRWEB ) March 24, 2008 -- Tano Capital LLC, on behalf of the Tano India Private Equity Fund I, is pleased to announce that it has made an equity investment of INR 300 million (US $7.4 million) into India based Anil Printers Limited ("APL"). APL is a printing company that manufactures prepaid scratch cards, pin mailers, airline tickets, cargo bills, and carbon-less stationery for the telecommunications, banking, courier, and logistics industries. We are particularly excited about the strength and depth of Anil Printers management team. They have demonstrated their ability to continually adapt and reshape their core businesses in rapidly changing business environments in both up and down markets. Their impressive list of top notch clients is a solid testament to the quality of the products that they produce. APL was founded by Ashokka Agarwal, who has been in the printing business for the past 25 years. APL's clients include Reliance Telecom, Reliance Infocomm, Bharti Airtel, Hutch, Idea, BSNL, MTNL, Nu Mobile (Bhutan), State Bank of India, Corporation Bank, UTI Bank, HSBC, HDFC, Canara Bank, Bank of Baroda, Bank of India, Jet Airways and Indian Airlines. News Image With this investment, APL plans to manufacture smart cards and RFID labels in technical collaboration with Mühlbauer High Tech International of Germany. APL has identified opportunities for the application of smart cards and RFID technology in several areas, including driver's licenses and national identification/security card systems such as the R.C. Book Multipurpose National Identification Card (MNIC) project. Charles "Chuck" Johnson, Tano Capital's Founder and Managing General Partner, said, "We are particularly excited about the strength and depth of Anil Printers management team. They have demonstrated their ability to continually adapt and reshape their core businesses in rapidly changing business environments in both up and down markets. Their impressive list of top notch clients is a solid testament to the quality of the products that they produce." Tano Capital, LLC is an alternative asset management firm founded in 2003 by Charles E. Johnson (formerly Co-President of Franklin Templeton Investments and CEO of Templeton Worldwide) to make private equity investments into rapidly growing private companies in India and China. Tano Capital currently has offices in Shanghai, Tianjin, Taipei, Mauritius, Mumbai, Viet Nam and San Mateo, California. For more information, please visit our website at www.tanocapital.com. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 00:47:00 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:17:00 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-50 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901091117r604bebb6g64573504100ec6ed@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=90506 Advani confident J&K elections will be "turning point" NEW DELHI, OCT 13 (PTI) Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani today asserted that the latest Assembly elections in Jammu and Kashmir will "prove" a turning point in India's efforts to find a lasting solution to the Kashmir issue. Advani said he was in position to make two predictions safely and with full responsibility -- one the Government would overcome cross-border terrorism in J and K with the active support of people like it did in Punjab and secondly "I have no no doubt that these elections will prove a turning point in our efforts to find a lasting solution to the Kashmir issue." He was speaking at press conference on the occasion of completion of three years of NDA Government. Political parties are presently engaged in weighing their gains and losses, he observed. "But from Government's point of view I would like to repeat what I have said earlier: the real winner in this election has been India and its democracy and the actual loser has been ISI and the terrorist tanzeems it has nurtured," he said. "If there is one development which simultaneously showcases our commitment to national security, national unity and integrity and democracy, it is the successful completion of elections in J and K," Advani said. Mentioning of India's success in isolating Pakistan in the international community and its victory in the Kargil war, Advani said India's efforts to strengthen its national security were illustrated by courageous initiatives to make it a nuclear weapons state and its uncompromising handling of the post-Pokharan fallout. Following up on the recommendations of the Kargil Review Committee, Government carried out a comprehensive review of the National Security System. Many of its recommendations such as the Integrated Defence Staff, Defence Procurement Board and Joint Tri-Service Andaman and Nicobar Command have already been implemented, he said. The NDA Government has increased the focus on India's internal security in an unpreceented manner. This is demonstrated by the enactment of the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA),2002, Rs.1000 crore annual police modernisation fund, modernisation of Central para-military forces, the peace process in the North-East and the soon-to-be-launched Multipurpose National Identity Cards system -- first on a pilot basis and later universally, he said. "Our security forces have turned the heat on Pak- supported terrorist groups in a relentless manner with significant gains on the ground. Mentioning about three major gains to Indian democracy, Advani said firstly, the NDA Government's stability stood in sharp contrast to the debilitating instability that India experienced in the latter half of the 90s. Secondly, the successful NDA experiment, building on the unsuccessful experience of the two United Front Governments previously, had given an unprecedented opportunity for regional parties to actively participate in governance at the Centre, he said. Thirdly, the NDA partners could legitimately claim credit for strengthening the principle of cooperative federalism in India, Advani said. The people of India have now seen that coalition governance at the Centre can indeed be successful, provided the partners in the ruling alliance are committed to an agreed common minimum programme and follow the norms of what can be called the "Coalition Dharma", he said. Notwithstanding the occasional minor episodes which are to be expected in a large multi-party democracy, the NDA Government's success in this regard is in no no small measure due to the experienced and enlightened leadership of Atal Bihari Vajpayee who commands unparalleled credibility and popularity beyond the supporters of the BJP and its allies in the NDA. Centre-state relations have been the "smoothest" and most harmonius in several decades, he said, adding the Central Government has scrupulously followed the policy of neither favouring nor disfavouring any stat e on the basis of which party rules where. "This, despite the fact that a large number of states are governed by parties that are in the opposition at the Centre. Listing Government's achievements in various sectors and asserting that its goal was to make India a developed nation, Advani said the Centre was well aware of the challenges and tasks that confronted the nation and the Government. Stressing that the Government was equally proud of its many unique initiatives and landmark achievement in the areas of India-s socio-economic development, Advani said that in infrastrcture development, some of the projects launched by it were the most ambitious since independence and referred to the Rs.54,000 crore National Highways Development Project, Alongside the gains in democracy, India has made big gains in national development and national security. "Taken together, these have made Indian people look to the future with greater hope and self-confidence and, at the same time, considerably raised India's stature in the international community." "Today, as we renew our pledge to implement all the promises made in the common manifesto of the NDA, we once again thank the people of India for the faith they have reposed in us and appeal for their continued support in the remaining two years of our tenure, " he said, adding "thereafter, it is our aim to seek, and win, under the leadership of Vajpayee their renewed and bigger mandate on the strength of this Government's performance. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 00:48:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:18:31 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-51 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901091118j1261a63fud1641b8320e1241e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.expresscomputeronline.com/20070709/technologysabha200705.shtml E&Y / Future of e-governance 09 July 2007 Future promise of e-governance Future promise of e-governanceThe next five years will see e-governance going beyond transactions to do much, much more. Sunil Chandiramani Sunil Chandiramani, Partner, Ernst & Young talked about the future of e-governance. He started off with a quick recap of what has been done to date. India has transformed significantly over the past few years. If you look at the country today you see change enabled by ICT. NeGP has been a comprehensive "programme" of the GoI & has gone a long way to leverage capabilities and opportunities presented by ICT to promote good governance across the country. Addressing the audience, he said, "Each of you has played a key role in transforming organisations." He went on to declare that on a scale of 100 the change that we have seen so far is just 10 percent. The next five years will see much more. Focusing on some key areas could accelerate the speed of implementation of NeGP—multi-purpose, secure, authentic, unique national citizen identity database; Greater harmonization of initiatives between the centre and states; equitable partnerships with the private sector; accelerated rural connectivity; building common storage and processing capacities between or amongst the states and the centre to optimise investments and cost of maintenance; capacity building and change management as well as delayed projects and accelerated costs – monitoring and evaluation. Chandiramani posed a provocative question: "Do we restrict e-governance to transactions or do more than that?" He went on to state that there are a lot of projects that can be enabled with technology that go beyond transactions. With regard to a unique national ID, there is duplicity of efforts today. Several identification databases exist for citizens both at the central and the state levels. At the central level there are the PAN database (the database itself is also prone to duplications, with some people holding fraudulent/ multiple PAN IDs), Voter ID database, Ration cards and National Identity cards. At the state level you have the driving license (no common database exists, some states issue biometric cards, other simple paper based cards). None of these databases link together to form a single cohesive, comprehensive citizen identity database. An initiative in this direction is the new MNIC (Multipurpose National ID Card which gives hope for a unique identification of every citizen. A pilot has been launched with distribution of 3,000 ID cards in Narela village near New Delhi. During phase I it is expected that the Ministry of Home will distribute two million cards in six months and Phase II will cover the entire population. There's also the Unique Identification Project which is in its concept stage to define an algorithm to combine multiple identities of a citizen (such as driving license, ration card, election card etc). Is there a possibility to synergise these two efforts with common storage and processing facilities. Moving on to why projects fail, often the participants fail to work out the benefits that the citizen gets. A lot of projects talk about computerisation and what they will do but benefits to citizens are missing. Lack of support at grass-root level can scupper a project as was the case with Gyandoot, a project aimed at establishing an intranet for the Dhar district in Madhya Pradesh, which would connect kiosks across the district and facilitate access to government services and information. The project failed when the district level e-champion of the project moved out; his successor did not have adequate interest in keeping the project alive. Successful efforts are not replicated. You find one state completing a project successfully only to find five more working on similar projects. Several states are rolling out IT infrastructure under different projects such as SWAN, NICNET, National data banks, state data centres. Partnerships with private enterprises in a manner that the government likes can help reduce costs, while raising quality. Government control remains while the speed of execution rises. NSDL is an example of PPP in action. Depending on how the country does, five years from now rural connectivity could mean the difference between success and failure. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 00:50:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:20:34 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-52 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901091120l62babd42nfde8280ed251c11f@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Ahmedabad/National_I-card_is_NIDs_baby/articleshow/2129810.cms The Times Of India Ahmedabad National I-card is NID's baby 18 Jun 2007, 0122 hrs IST, Asha Krishna, TNN AHMEDABAD: One of the Central government's most ambitious projects — the multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) — has an Ahmedabad connection. The card, which authenticates details of your birth, address and nationality and has 16 personal details complete with a unique identification number, has been designed by National Institute of Design (NID). "The registrar general and officials of the census ministry approached us to work on MNIC's visual elements. After holding discussions at various levels we finally prepared some eight designs and presented them before the Union home minister," says Pradyumna Vyas, principal designer, faculty of designing, NID. It took the three-member team of Vyas, Rupesh Vyas and Pradeep Nahar two years and fifty designs before they could finalise on the winning combination which aptly defined the purpose of the card. "We had to be extra cautious since the visual elements had to integrate well with the security concerns and also appeal to the user — the Indian citizen," said Rupesh Vyas, co-ordinator, information and digital design. The biggest challenge was to come up with a design reflecting the cultural diversity of the country. "We wanted a neutral colour devoid of any political affiliation. We decided on burgundy since the colour is embedded in our culture, be it the embroidery of Kutch or Kanjeevarams of South India." Accommodating chunks of information without giving it a cluttered look was another challenge. The card has been distributed in selected parts of New Delhi and is all set to be extended to other parts of the country. The MNIC, meant for people aged 18 years and above, it is a means of providing credible individual identification system . From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 00:53:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:23:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-53 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901091123sf6b10a2q724fe5bbb07549ed@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=263673 LD BJP Pet Hindutva issues resurface at BJP meet FROM K G SURESH RANCHI, NOV 25 (PTI) A day after the BJP shed its ideological inhibitions, the party's national executive here today raised pet Hindutva issues including cow protection, Bangaldeshi infiltration and "perverse" use of some Madrasas and accused the UPA Government of being totally influenced by vote bank politics in handling national security issues. Preparing for the coming Assembly elections in Haryana and extremist-prone Bihar and Jharkhand, the saffron party also alleged a nexus between the Congress, its allies and some extremists in the recent Lok Sabha elections. While the party demanded enactment of a law to ban cow slaughter in a resolution on Agriculture adopted on the second day of the meeting, another resolution on internal security demanded scrapping of the IMDT Act and asked the Government to act on dire warnings and detailed recommendations given by intelligence agencies regarding the growth and "perverse" use of some Madrasas all along the country's borders. "Cow slaughter should be totally banned. We had prepared a bill but the Congress and Communist parties raised an uproar and did not allow us to introduce it," BJP General Secretary Rajnath Singh, who moved the resolution, told reporters here. Asked whether the party has evolved a consensus among NDA constituents on the issue, the former Agriculture Minister said "NDA is in its place. We have our principles and ideology and our demand is in larger national interests." Interestingly, most of the demands raised by the BJP in its resolutions are akin to the demands of both RSS and VHP. The BJP termed as "reprehensible" the Andhra Pradesh Government's decision to lift the ban on the People's War Group and to allow naxalites to move in the state with arms. The party alleged the internal dialogue process which was giving an impetus to the peace process in Kashmir during the NDA Government had broken down. It also said the UPA Government was completely at sea in combating insurgency in the North-East, and on the increasing ISI activity and the support the insurgents are getting from camps in Bangladesh. Shedding the party's earlier ideological inhibitions, BJP President L.K.Advani had at his inaugural address yesterday warned its adversaries against indulging in anti-Hindu politics and statecraft under the cover of secularism. "The BJP will stand in their path like a rock, prepared to make any sacrifice," he had said. The BJP Resolution on Internal Security called upon the Government to take the nation and its Parliament into confidence on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir and the progress in the peace process. In an apparent reference to Armed Force Special Power Act, it asked the Government to desist from snatching away from the defence forces instruments that are necessary to fight terrorists and secessionists. The saffron party demanded immediate scrapping of the IMDT ACT, "which has completely disabled security and civilian authorities from deporting Bangladeshi Infiltrators and which has, perversely, served as an open invition for a demographic invasion of India". It also sought among other things implementation of multi-purpose national identity card, formation of an integrated command for the entire north-east, setting up of a joint command and task forcefor adequately delaing with naxalite terrorists, drafting a strict and decisive strategy to combat underworld and anti-social forces and "firmly scotch moves that seek to pull Kashmir away from the rest of India under the pretext of talks". Meanwhile, the Resolution on Agriculture expressed concern over suicide by farmers in several states and demanded that the Government remounce its "callous attitude" and set up a high-powered national study team to comprehensively examine this "unfortunate and discreditable" phenomenon and implement the team's recommendations in a time-bound manner. Apparently reflecting the Sangh Parivar's approach to Indo-Pak relations, the BJP resolution said "the Kashmir policy of the UPA has left the nation bewildered. There is lack of clarity in the Government about the basic ideological roots of problems between India and Pakistan." The party expressed serious concern over the "criminally casual manner" in which the nation's internal security was being handled and charged the Congress-led coalition with repealing anti-terror laws motivated only by vote bank considerations. "The issue of illegal infiltration from Bangladesh to India amounts to a demographic invasion of the country. This issue cannot be handled through politically partisan approach. Infiltrators cannot be seen only as potential voters. Infiltration has serious social and security dimensions," the resolution said. "The UPA Government instead of adopting a focused and firm approach has been apologetic even about our census figures, and has shown a complete lack of firmness in dealing with infiltrators," it said. Asked to elaborate on allegations of Congress party's nexus with extremists in the Lok Sabha polls, party spokesman Arun Jaitley said it was visible in Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Jharkhand, Bihar, Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh. From parvaizbukhari at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 06:24:37 2009 From: parvaizbukhari at gmail.com (Parvaiz Bukhari) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:24:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? Message-ID: http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090108&fname=prashant&sid=1&pn=1 *Are Tougher Laws The Answer?* *No. Far from curbing terror, draconian laws used by a corrupt and communal police are creating conditions which will only make the problem worse. The problem lies with the police, the implementing agency.* [image: ...] Prashant Bhushan The terrorist attack on two five star hotels in Mumbai has led to a lot of jingoism and muscle-flexing in the media, and on the streets. "Enough is enough", "We will not pay our taxes", "we must destroy terrorist training camps in Pakistan" are the kind of cries that are being heard very frequently. "Get tough on terror" is the new mantra and, among other things, getting tough means bringing tougher laws. The UPA government which repealed POTA just 4 years ago because it was found to be draconian, misused and counterproductive, has now used the jingoism to enact a "tougher terror law" in the form of amendments in the already draconian Unlawful Activities Prevention Act. These amendments were introduced in Parliament on the 15thDecember and passed the next day with virtually no debate and without any opportunity to civil society to study, digest and debate the implications of the amendments. Those who have been clamouring for tougher laws often do not know what makes the law tough, and how "tougher" laws would deter or prevent terrorism. In the first place, it must be understood that a law can only help to keep in custody, prosecute and convict any person who has been arrested. No law, however tough or draconian, can deter or deal with suicidal terrorists who are willing to die before they are caught. The prospect of no bail or the prospect of being convicted is hardly likely to scare or deter the kind of terrorists who attacked Mumbai. In fact, in Iraq, the security forces or the Army can detain or keep in detention indefinitely or even shoot down any person at will. The police or security forces cannot have more draconian powers than that. Yet, those powers, far from bringing down terrorism in Iraq, have only led to conditions, which have created more terrorists who are blowing up themselves and hundreds of people every day. When POTA was repealed, some of its draconian provisions had been engrafted into the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act. Those, along with The Chhattisgarh Public Security Act, whose provisions make it an offence to provide any kind of assistance to a banned organization or a person belonging to a banned organization, have been used to incarcerate * Binayak Sen*, the General Secretary of the PUCL. Sen unquestionably one of the most selfless activists, spent a good part of his life in setting up public health clinics in remote areas of Chhattisgarh. He has been in detention for the last one and half years on the charge that he has "assisted" Maoists who were in jail by taking letters from them and giving them to their comrades. It matters not that these letters he is alleged to have carried did not contain anything subversive. The mere fact that he is alleged to have carried letters from an alleged Maoist is enough to charge him with "assisting" an unlawful (Maoist) organization and thus a terrorist act. Denial of bail under POTA had only allowed the investigative agencies to keep under detention innocent persons against whom the investigative agencies had no evidence of terrorism. No court would grant bail anyway to a person against whom there is any evidence of involvement in any terrorist act. No government has ever come up with a case that some terrorist act was committed by a person who was arrested earlier but had to be released on bail because of the absence of "stronger laws". Similarly, everybody knows that police confessions can be obtained from anyone by torture or under the threat of torture. They are a totally unsafe and unreliable basis for charging or convicting any person. These draconian provisions of POTA and its predecessor TADA had only encouraged the police to detain innocent persons indefinitely, chargesheet them on the basis of police confessions and then prosecute them in trials which go on for years. Once having arrested the persons and chargesheeted them, the police claims that the case has been solved. During this time, these persons are usually tortured in custody, and forced to confess. Their prolonged incarceration leads to the permanent loss of their reputation and the economic destruction of their families. The fact that most of the persons chargesheeted under these draconian laws were innocent is clear from the fact that more than 98% of them were eventually acquitted. But their acquittal came only after an enormous toll on their reputation, health, lives and the economic survival of their families. This has not only caused great injustice to thousands of innocent persons who have been unfairly arrested and victimized by the investigative agencies in this manner, it is one of the major causes of the insecurity, alienation and anger of the minorities against the police, the criminal justice system and indeed the ruling establishment of the country. This is indeed the finding of several People's Tribunals that have extensively heard the testimonies of large numbers of persons who were victimized by these Acts. The People's Tribunal on POTA consisting of eminent jurists such as Ram Jethmalani, Justice Suresh, Justice D.K. Basu, K.G. Kannabiran, and other eminent persons, opined in their report in 2004: "Our review of victim and expert testimony shows that the misuse of the Act is inseparable from its normal use. It is a statute meant to terrorise, not so much the terrorists as ordinary civilians – particularly the poor and disadvantaged such as Dalits, religious minorities, Adivasis and working people." A People's Tribunal on the terror investigations of the police in various states of the country was held in Hyderabad in August 2008. The jury consisted of two former Chief Justices, several other eminent, academics, lawyers and social scientists. They came to the unanimous conclusion that: "The testimonies showed that a large number of innocent young Muslims have been and are being victimized by the police on the charge of being involved in various terrorist acts across the country. This is particularly so in Maharashtra, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Andhra Pradesh and Rajasthan, though not limited to these States. This victimization and demonisation of Muslims in the guise of investigation of terror offences, is having a very serious psychological impact on the minds of not only the families of the victims but also other members of the community. It is leading to a very strong sense of insecurity and alienation which may lead to frightful consequences for the nation." The amendments now rushed through in the Unlawful Activities Act undoubtedly make it more draconian by giving more powers to the police to search, arrest, keep in police custody and in jail persons on mere subjective suspicion even if they have no evidence of their being involved in any terrorist Acts. The newly introduced Section 43A of the act empowers an officer of a designated authority to search any premises or arrest any person of whom he has "reason to believe or knows" that he has a "design to commit an offence under the Act. Further, police officers investigating an offence under the Act have (with the approval of the SP), been empowered to require any organization or any individual to furnish any information that the officer may demand for his investigation. The failure to furnish such information has been made punishable with up to 3 years imprisonment. Such a provision can and will easily be misused by the police to harass all kinds of activists, lawyers, doctors and journalists who stand up for, or provide any assistance, even legal or medical, to an alleged terrorist. The maximum period for keeping persons in police custody has been extended from 15 to 30 days. Police custody is sought for "custodial interrogation" which we all know is a euphemism for custodial torture. India has the highest number of custodial deaths in the world and is among the few countries which have not ratified the UN convention on torture. Though the Constitution provides that no one can be compelled to be a witness against himself, yet such coercive "custodial interrogation" is being allowed by the Courts for months without end. Abu Basheer, the Azamgarh cleric who has been dubbed as one of the many "Masterminds" of the serial blasts in Ahmedabad, Jaipur and Delhi, has been continuously kept in police custody for more than 6 months now by arresting him serially (after every 15 days) in one after another of the more than 25 FIRs that have been registered in Ahmedabad, Jaipur and Delhi for the serial blasts. The Code of Criminal Procedure provides that if the chargesheet against an arrested person is not filed within 90 days, he will be entitled to Bail. This is for the reason that till the chargesheet is filed it is virtually impossible for an arrested person to get bail, even if the police has no evidence against him. The new amendments also extend the maximum period for filing a chargesheet against an arrestee to 180 days. Another amendment makes bail virtually impossible even during trial. It provides that an "accused person shall not be released on bail or on his own bond, if the court on a perusal of the case diary or the report made under section 173 (the chargesheet) of the code is of the opinion that there are reasonable grounds for believing that the accusations against the persons are prima facie true" These amendments make the Unlawful Activities Act as or more draconian than POTA. The only draconian provision of POTA left out in this Act now is the admissibility of police confessions. Far from curbing terror, we find that draconian laws used by a corrupt and communal police are creating conditions which will only exacerbate the problem. The normal laws of the land are adequate to deal with terror offences. The problem lies with the police which is the implementing agency. The Supreme Court had issued many directions in September 2006 to implement police reforms which several expert agencies of the government had recommended many years ago, but which had not been implemented. They included, setting up independent State and National Security Commissions, Police Establishment Boards, Police Complaints Authorities and giving a minimum tenure to heads of field police officers at all levels including Police Chiefs etc.The thrust of these recommendations was to make the police and investigative agencies accountable to the law and free them from the strangulating control of the political executive. Neither the central nor most of the state governments have implemented the directions of the Supreme Court about police reforms. None of the major political parties are prepared to relinquish their political control over the police. Implementation of reforms within the Police and Intelligence agencies should certainly improve security and reduce terror attacks. But that will not eliminate the problem. Israel, with the most efficient intelligence, security and police has not been able to eliminate the problem, despite the small size of the country. There have suicide attacks almost every month. No amount of intelligence or security can stop terrorists who are willing to give up their lives. They can only be stopped if their motivation is eliminated. That will require what Chomsky advised in the wake of 9/11. He said: *"As to how to react (to 9/11), we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making an effort to enter into the minds of the likely perpetrators ... We may try to understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much worse lies ahead."* Eventually, understanding the motivations of the terrorists and dealing with the injustices that pervade our society, and repairing the institutions of justice, particularly the police and the judiciary, will be a much more effective way of fighting terror, than laws which give more draconian powers to corrupt and insensitive police organisations. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 10:02:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:32:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Parvaiz Bukhari wrote: > http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090108&fname=prashant&sid=1&pn=1 > > *Are Tougher Laws The Answer?* *No. Far from curbing terror, draconian > laws > used by a corrupt and communal police are creating conditions which will > only make the problem worse. The problem lies with the police, the > implementing agency.* Dear Parvaiz, Thank you for posting this article. We all know that any critique of terror laws in any country warns us about the possible worsening of situation. Personally I denounce terror laws in our country and elsewhere as it goes against basic and fundamental human rights. I deeply deplore them. But for the sake of an argument, please allow me to play the devil's advocate. Don't you feel that at one level it is but obvious for the Government to have introduced terror laws in India? At the macro level, that is on a national scale there is a perception about the Muslim community in India in particular that these people are bunch of maniacs and religious zealots, then there is this meta-narrative of Jehad and War against terror. Parallel to this perception, on a micro level or on the scale of a street or a mohalla there is a continuous occurrence of bomb attacks, fidayeen attacks and what not. The crescendo seems to be building up as India approaches general election. The micros and macros are then adduced to make generalizations about fear and insecurity. The line of argument seems to be valid. Among some sections of Indian society this fuels a desire that Muslims need to be contained. There are general elections around the corner. The Hindu right agenda is clear and known to everyone. In order to perhaps make sure that it should not be perceived as soft on terror, the UPA introduces some laws. As a political form of response what is wrong in that? Considering the fact that Bombay terror attacks did happen, there is an insurgency going on in Kashmir (the only state with a Muslim CM), there were a series of bomb attacks in the country, where it was widely perceived that disgruntled Muslim youth of the country supported by other individuals carried out these attacks. Then there are statements like those made by Qasab, who claims that a) He did it for Islam and b) he will not repent at all for what he did. It is indeed a tragedy of this country that even after 60 years of Independence, most of the 140 million Muslims of India have to sound apologetic for their beliefs because of absolutely disgusting acts of a bunch of ten brainwashed, mad and crazed Pakis. Having said that I am not at all claiming that I support terror laws but I am curious- Is there any other way or different way or differing way in which this perception could have been read in a new light? because prima facie I find myself at odds to come up with counter arguments in addition to those articulated by Mr. Bhushan against the imposition these terror laws. Regards Taha From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 10:21:46 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:51:46 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Spat between Israel and Vetican Message-ID: (From NY Times) Israel Condemns Vatican's 'Concentration Camp' Remarks. By RACHEL DONADIO. ROME. Tensions rose between the Vatican and Israel on Thursday after Israel condemned a high-ranking Vatican official for comparing the Gaza Strip to 'a concentration camp. Look at the conditions in Gaza: more and more, it resembles a big concentration camp,' Cardinal Renato Martino, the president of the Council for Justice and Peace, said in an interview published Wednesday in an online publication. He defended his comments in the center-left daily newspaper La Repubblica on Thursday. While noting that Hamas rockets into Israel were 'certainly not sugared almonds,' he called the situation in Gaza 'horrific' and said conditions there went 'against human dignity. Israel on Thursday harshly condemned the cardinal's use of World War Two imagery. We are astounded that a spiritual dignitary would have such words, that are so far removed from truth and dignity,' said Yigal Palmor, a spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry. He added that it was 'shocking to hear the vocabulary of Hamas propaganda coming from a member of the church. But he denied that it would cause a diplomatic crisis. It 'doesn't change the nature of relations between Israel and the Holy See,' Mr. Palmor said. The Vatican sought to downplay the cardinal's remarks. The Vatican spokesman, Rev. Federico Lombardi, called Cardinal Martino's choice of words 'inopportune,' and said they created 'irritation and confusion' more than illumination. While calling the cardinal 'an authoritative person,' Rev. Lombardi added that 'The more authoritative voice and line would be that of the pope. Indeed, the cardinal's remarks overshadowed an important discourse that Pope Benedict XVI delivered on Thursday, in which he called for a ceasefire in Gaza and decried 'a renewed outbreak of violence provoking immense damage and suffering for the civilian population. Once again I would repeat that military options are no solution and that violence, wherever it comes from and whatever form it takes, must be firmly condemned,' he told diplomats accredited to the Vatican. In unusually direct remarks, the pope looked ahead to 'crucial elections' coming up in the Middle East and called for dialogue between Israel and Syria, the 'strengthening of institutions' in Lebanon and a 'negotiated solution' to 'the controversy surrounding' Iran's nuclear program. Israel's ambassador to the Vatican, Mordechay Lewy, said events Gaza had 'no connection' to plans underway for Benedict to visit Israel, the West Bank and Jordan this spring. The Vatican has not yet officially announced the trip. In the past, some Jews have seen the Vatican's approach as more sympathetic to Palestinian suffering than Israeli security. Mr. Lewy called the pope's speech 'equivocal. The language and the expectations of the Holy Father and the scope of his interests are different from those of a politician,' Mr. Lewy said. In practical politics, I'm sure Israel wouldn't have existed if we would have acted without any force. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 10:55:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:25:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? Message-ID: <65be9bf40901092125k73d0e48byfb33cfc73b2af672@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I wonder why does the Indian media houses shy away from calling un natural deaths of three thousand and five hundred Indians as 'TERROR' too which is over five times as more as Palestinians butchered by Israelis and over FIFTEEN times more than who were murdered in Bombay recently. Regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nearly-3-500-lives-lost-in-floods-in-2008-report/403253/ Nearly 3,500 lives lost in floods in 2008: Report Agencies Posted: Dec 26, 2008 at 1645 hrs IST New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country this year due to floods which also damaged over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year.ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year. ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year. Related Stories: New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country this year due to floods which also damaged over 20 lakh houses and led to the deaths of 45,000 cattle. The state which saw highest number of deaths due to floods in 2008 was Uttar Pradesh with 1,210 losing their lives. Bihar was second with 524 deaths, followed by West Bengal with 288, a Home Ministry report said. Over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states and the Union Territory of Puducherry. The states which were not affected due to floods this year are Jammu and Kashmir, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland and Tripura. "In floods in various parts of the country, a total of 3402 people were killed. 43,383 cattle were lost and 20,52, 763 houses were damaged," a Home Ministry official said. In terms of cultivable land affected due to floods, Tamil Nadu topped the list with 5.97 lakh hectare being affected due to floods this year. It was followed by Uttar Pradesh with 4.98 lakh hectares and Orissa with 4.45 lakh hectares. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:03:14 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:03:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Hamas=92_reign_of_rockets?= Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901092133h3f761ccbrd598d07dac4f358b@mail.gmail.com> http://www.inquirer.net/specialfeatures/thesoutherncampaign/view.php?db=1&article=20090110-182510 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:04:38 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:04:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hamas Fact Sheet Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901092134s72ada381g7f5a01256ca6f2cc@mail.gmail.com> http://www.adl.org/main_israel/hamas_facts.htm Since its founding in 1987 in Gaza by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, Hamas - an Arabic acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement meaning "zeal" - has been committed to destroying the Jewish state and replacing it with an Islamic state in all of Palestine. *Origins:* Hamas was created shortly before the December 1987 Intifada as a more militant, Palestinian offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, a religious, political and social movement founded in Egypt and dedicated to the gradual victory of Islam. Since the mid-1970s, the Brotherhood had been expanding its influence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip through its vast array of social services. Hamas advocacy of an immediate holy war to liberate Palestine rendered the Brotherhood's policy of gradual Islamicization ineffectual. *Ideology:* Hamas preaches and engages in violence and terror in order to destroy the state of Israel and replace it with an Islamic state. Its virulent hatred of Jews and Judaism is deeply rooted in the anti-Semitic writings of Muslim Brotherhood theologians. In August 1988, Hamas issued its Covenant laying down its ideological principles and goals. Replete with anti-Semitism, it echoes the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion and charges Jews with an international conspiracy to gain control of the world. In Hamas' worldview, Islamic precepts forbid a Jewish state in the area known as Palestine, the Jewish people have no legitimate connection to the land of Israel and Yasir Arafat is a traitor to the Islamic Palestinian cause. As the Hamas Covenant proclaims, "The land of Palestine is an Islamic trust... It is forbidden to anyone to yield or concede any part of it... Israel will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it..." *Organizational Structure:* Hamas is both a terrorist organization and a mass social, political and religious movement. The military branch is reportedly divided into three wings: an intelligence arm which gathers information about Palestinians suspected of collaboration, an arm which pursues those who have violated Islamic law and the Izzedine al-Qassam squads who are responsible for most of the terror attacks. The al-Qassam squads are comprised of a few dozen activists loosely organized into small, shadowy terror cells, at times operating independently of each other. Hamas' military and political leaders are based throughout the West Bank and Gaza and the organization maintains offices and representatives in Teheran, Damascus and Amman. The connections and levels of coordination between the military and political branches are concealed. The division of Hamas into military and political/social wings has led many observers to erroneously assume that the social wing of Hamas is completely separate from its military wing. However, funds raised for the social programs of Hamas free up other funds for the military wing and there is no open accounting system whereby the international community can ascertain whether or not the social wing finances the military wing. For instance, so-called humanitarian donations reward the families of Hamas suicide bombers. Hamas' military wing also utilizes the organization's social wing for indoctrination and recruitment. The social, cultural, religious and educational institutions of Hamas are well-known venues for anti-Israel and anti-Jewish hatred and serve as recruitment centers for Hamas suicide bombers. For example, a Hamas-sponsored soccer team in Hebron provided a ready supply of several Hamas suicide bombers. In early 2006, Hamas began operation of a television station based in Gaza, Al Aksa TV, which broadcasts primarily religious and children's programming. Al Aksa TV – which Hamas says it hopes to soon broadcast via satellite to broaden its audience – is likely to become a key tool in propagating Hamas' extremist message. Indeed, the host of the station's children's program told the *New York Times* that his show "will teach children the basics of militant Palestinian politics." *Terrorism and Violence:* Hamas launched its campaign of violence in 1989, first against Israeli soldiers and suspected Palestinian collaborators, and then against Israeli civilians. In the wake of the Oslo agreement, Hamas leaders intensified their rhetoric and vowed to derail the peace process through violent attacks. Drive-by shootings, firebombings and stabbings increased. Suicide missions began in April 1994, when a Hamas suicide bomber rammed an explosives-laden car into a bus in Afula killing eight and wounding 50 others. Since that time Hamas has claimed responsibility for hundreds of attacks against Israeli civilian and military targets. Israeli security sources have thwarted scores more. Following Israel's unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip in August 2005, Hamas carried out dozens of rocket attacks against civilian targets in southern Israel. According to the Israel Defense Forces, through suicide bombings and other violent attacks, Hamas has killed nearly 300 Israelis since September 2000, and wounded over 2,000. While Hamas agreed to a ceasefire or "*tahdia"* on terrorist operations in March 2005, according to Israeli sources, Hamas continued to plan and perpetrate terrorist attacks, and helped provide support for attacks claimed by other terrorist organizations. Through systematic religious and political indoctrination and social pressure, Hamas leaders recruit young Palestinian men for suicide missions and other attacks. Hamas has also recruited beyond the West Bank and Gaza. According to Israeli sources, Hamas has recruited and operated a number of Israeli Arab terror cells. In June 2003, Israel indicted five senior officials of the Israeli Arab Islamic Movement, including movement leader Sheikh Ra'ad Salah, on various terrorism-related charges including membership in Hamas and raising funds abroad for Hamas agencies in the West Bank and Gaza. According to Israeli sources, two British Muslim suicide bombers who blew up a pub in Tel Aviv in April 2003 were Hamas recruits dispatched by the Hamas military command in Gaza. *Financial Support:* Hamas enjoys strong financial backing from Iran (an estimated $20 - $30 million), private benefactors and Muslim charities in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, Palestinian expatriates across the globe and American donors. Its budget has been estimated at $70 million and 85 percent of it reportedly comes from abroad; the remaining 15 percent is raised among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. A number of Americans and U.S.-based charities have been implicated in funneling money to Hamas. It is estimated that Saudi Arabia continues to channel between $12 - $14 million to Hamas annually. At a June 2003 press conference, Adel al-Jubeir, a senior adviser to the Saudi Crown Prince, did acknowledge that many Palestinian institutions funded by the Saudis may be run or managed by the political wing of Hamas. Syria remains a key center for Hamas operations, and the Assad regime provides support and protection to key Hamas leadership based in Damascus. *Hamas and Palestinian Politics:* Hamas had tremendous success in the January 25, 2006 parliamentary elections, routing Fatah, and winning 74 seats in the 132-seat legislature, with Fatah earning a disappointing 45 seats. Hamas will thus form the next Palestinian Authority government, with Mahmoud Abbas remaining as Palestinian Authority President. Although the "Oslo II" agreement signed by Israel and the Palestinian Authority in September 1995, outlining the modalities of Palestinian elections, bars candidates who "commit or advocate racism; or pursue the implementation of their aims by unlawful or non-democratic means," President Abbas did not prevent Hamas' participation in the political process. Hamas began large-scale participation in the Palestinian political scene in 2005, and they did extremely well in the series of municipal elections held throughout the year, gaining more than a third of municipal council seats. As a result of the fourth round of Palestinian municipal elections held in December 2005, over one million Palestinians live in municipalities governed by Hamas (while only 700,000 live in municipalities governed by Fatah). Hamas candidates appeal to Palestinian voters as the alternative to the perceived corruption, inaction and weakness of Fatah and the Palestinian Authority leadership. Candidates promised improved socio-economic conditions for Palestinian families, and greater social services. They also pledged an end to the "Israeli occupation," the establishment of a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital and the return of all Palestinian refugees. Through the 2006 election campaign, Hamas candidates and leadership did not disavow their commitment to an "armed struggle" against Israel, their refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist, and the precepts of the Hamas Charter. Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar declared on Palestinian TV, "We do not recognize the Israeli enemy, nor his right to be our neighbor, nor to stay (on the land), nor his ownership of any inch of land. . . . We are interested in restoring our full rights to return all the people of Palestine to the land of Palestine. Our principles are clear: Palestine is a land of *Waqf** *(Islamic trust), which can not be given up." At the same time, a number of Hamas candidates did make pragmatic statements, indicating that they might deal with Israelis in certain situations, or via a third party. The entry of Hamas into Palestinian politics has been somewhat controversial. Some Hamas ideologues argue that involvement with the Palestinian Authority will lead to comprising the party's goals, and the legitimization of the Palestinian Authority's dealings with the State of Israel. Indeed, for these reasons Hamas did not participate in the last Palestinian elections in 1996. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:09:57 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:09:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Disturbing footage of Hamas violence against their own people Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901092139i4d216144n2ece6ea9ae3e979b@mail.gmail.com> http://occidentalsoapbox.blogspot.com/2009/01/disturbing-footage-of-hamas-violence.html From aliak77 at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:16:06 2009 From: aliak77 at gmail.com (Kath O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:46:06 +1100 Subject: [Reader-list] Hamas Fact Sheet In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901092134s72ada381g7f5a01256ca6f2cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70901092134s72ada381g7f5a01256ca6f2cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <383607190901092146p15bbc60co198cf866d31ea47d@mail.gmail.com> I think their mission is quite clear - even outlined on Hamas' website : http://www.alqassam.ps/english/?action=aboutus they speak about Zionists/Zionism rather than 'Israel' - I think this is an interesting use of terminology. as I understand it, whilst there is a majority of Jewish people in Israel, their government is a secular one - the 'zionists' don't rule the country - though they do have some influence of course. I suppose it's because they don't recognise 'Israel' as a state/country. 2009/1/10 Pawan Durani : > http://www.adl.org/main_israel/hamas_facts.htm > > > Since its founding in 1987 in Gaza by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, Hamas - an Arabic > acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement meaning "zeal" - has been committed > to destroying the Jewish state and replacing it with an Islamic state in all > of Palestine. > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:36:07 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:36:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I would like to point out a statement made on the floor of the Parliament by the Home Minister P.Chidambaram, as the discussion on the anti-terror law was taking place in the Lok Sabha. He had said that these terror laws would definitely not help in fighting jihadis, who have no fear of death and who are ready to die for a cause. This law is being introduced to bring confidence among the people, that the state is not just sitting idle, as terror attacks take place throughout the country. Secondly, just because an anti-terror law is misused doesn't mean that the law shouldn't be there. This is a completely nonsense argument. The traffic laws are also misused in our country to a great deal. Does that mean that we should not have any traffic laws? No, it means that we educate our people about these laws, ensure that they are strictly implemented, introduce reforms in our traffic police and provide them incentives so that they can ensure strict implementation of such laws, and moves like these. Similarly, just because there are some provisions in any law, which can be misused, doesn't mean the law must not be there. The way to fight out this is to ensure that institutions must be created and people must be educated on the possible misuse of the law, and how to counter it. If that means police reforms, so be it. If that means courts intervening and punishing officials who do so, so be it. If that means society has to change its outlook towards those who are arrested under POTA and then acquitted for want of any evidence, so be it. But that does not mean repeal of the law. So, as far as those provisions which can be misused are concerned, this certainly is the case. Let us stop misuse of the law, not repeal it. The only argument according to me, which is useful, is whether it's against the basic tenet of human rights. When a person in USA or England can be detained for upto a maximum period of 30 days, or even less than that, why is it required that a person in India be detained till about 180 days, is beyond comprehension. This is wrong, and hence must certainly be looked at. Finally, I would say that I am no supporter of anti-terror laws. I understand it does alienate people from the society they live in. But certainly, they are not introduced for that purpose itself as they are supposed to perform, as the Home Minister acknowledges. And one must understand that, for the UPA has its own compulsions to do so. To be in it's position, is totally problematic. It has to deal with both Hindutva and Antulay. And yes for Pakistan. The Indian Muslim leaders should together release a fatwa telling the Pakistani Muslims to mind their own business, and that the justice and redistribution of resources on a fair basis is something the Indian Muslims can fight for, without requiring any help from Pakistan. And more importantly, all such terror help from Pakistan must be denounced in all terms. Regards Rakesh Iyer From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 13:45:42 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:45:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00901100015j6c3d1fffjb13b33e746b077c1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, At the outset, let me congratulate you for availing your democratic rights for free expression on your views about terror, legalities and interestingly, Pakistani Muslims assisting Indian Muslims and blah and blah. Even I endorse these rights from time to time as I have realised this luxury of free expression lately as opposed to millions who are maimed or gagged because they wanted to say something or expose some important facet of their respective societies. Your idea of terror as compared to traffic issues is very interesting if not ridiculous. That there should be strict laws to prevent terror attacks in the nation and that laws (for instance: traffic laws, as your pointed out) exist but not implemented in a proper manner shows exposes the hypocrisy of the legal system in fighting crime and other social ills. For instance, last week the Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, expressed his reservations about setting up a National Investigation Agency (NIA) but at the same time, vigorously mobilising young people in the state to take part in the signature campaigns to support GUJCOC – the proposed anti terror law for the state. He reasons: "By setting up the National Investigation Agency, the Central government now obviously wants to take over upon itself the responsibility of fighting terror by sidetracking the states." On second thoughts, let's do a small experiment here with this quote by Mr Modi (hope he doesn't mind). Let us replace the word "investigation" with "traffic". Modi's quote would read like this: "By setting up the National Traffic Agency, the Central government now obviously wants to take over upon itself the responsibility of fighting traffic issues by sidetracking the states." If we go by your comparison of traffic and terror laws, this statement would have made more sense on part of Mr Modi. Let us also assume that we have very tough terror laws and they are been misused. Because there would be a presence of an extremely vocal watchdog's lobby demanding explanation for each preventive arrest under the law, are you trying to say that it would keep a check on the policemen? For how many months these watchdogs can keep an eye ( as the police reforming itself is very unlikely unless there is push from non-police agency)?… for six months? What if the detention is extended for a period of two years? Do we have a body in the Indian Polity to keep a watch on a man detained by the police under presumed preventive terror act for two years? Can you monitor if the police and state agencies did not torture the accused for a forceful confession? Forget the tough laws on terror, Assam Government has increased the period of preventive detention from six months to two years. There is not single watchdog in that state to keep a track people picked up in the name of preventive detention in the middle of the night. There used to Manab Adhikar Sangram Samiti (MASS) but then it has been by the successive state governments to have links with the banned ULFA. Although, MASS is the only organisation to have exposed the army's torture on innocent villagers especially women. You want to educate the people about the laws on terror. Why would anyone listen to you Rakesh? What business do they have apart from knowing what their rights here? It is the responsibility of the state. In a state like Gujarat, there is a shortage of 1200 policemen in the forces. Don't you think a tough terror bill has been drafted to compensate the staff shortages in the security agencies? And finally, why do Indian Muslims or anyone has to issue a *fatwa* against Pakistani Muslims? What did Muslims do anyway? Isn't ridiculous to legitimise the attacks by deeming it as some kind of support to Indian Muslims when a lot of others through non-violent means such as music and arts are opposing the states from gaining a communal colour, preventing them from waging another war? As I am a novice when it comes to the art of arguing through mails, I hope these questions are answered in this public forum. Best, Anupam On 1/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Dear all > > I would like to point out a statement made on the floor of the Parliament > by > the Home Minister P.Chidambaram, as the discussion on the anti-terror law > was taking place in the Lok Sabha. He had said that these terror laws would > definitely not help in fighting jihadis, who have no fear of death and who > are ready to die for a cause. This law is being introduced to bring > confidence among the people, that the state is not just sitting idle, as > terror attacks take place throughout the country. > > Secondly, just because an anti-terror law is misused doesn't mean that the > law shouldn't be there. This is a completely nonsense argument. The traffic > laws are also misused in our country to a great deal. Does that mean that > we > should not have any traffic laws? No, it means that we educate our people > about these laws, ensure that they are strictly implemented, introduce > reforms in our traffic police and provide them incentives so that they can > ensure strict implementation of such laws, and moves like these. > > Similarly, just because there are some provisions in any law, which can be > misused, doesn't mean the law must not be there. The way to fight out this > is to ensure that institutions must be created and people must be educated > on the possible misuse of the law, and how to counter it. If that means > police reforms, so be it. If that means courts intervening and punishing > officials who do so, so be it. If that means society has to change its > outlook towards those who are arrested under POTA and then acquitted for > want of any evidence, so be it. But that does not mean repeal of the law. > So, as far as those provisions which can be misused are concerned, this > certainly is the case. Let us stop misuse of the law, not repeal it. > > The only argument according to me, which is useful, is whether it's against > the basic tenet of human rights. When a person in USA or England can be > detained for upto a maximum period of 30 days, or even less than that, why > is it required that a person in India be detained till about 180 days, is > beyond comprehension. This is wrong, and hence must certainly be looked at. > > Finally, I would say that I am no supporter of anti-terror laws. I > understand it does alienate people from the society they live in. But > certainly, they are not introduced for that purpose itself as they are > supposed to perform, as the Home Minister acknowledges. And one must > understand that, for the UPA has its own compulsions to do so. To be in > it's > position, is totally problematic. It has to deal with both Hindutva and > Antulay. > > And yes for Pakistan. The Indian Muslim leaders should together release a > fatwa telling the Pakistani Muslims to mind their own business, and that > the > justice and redistribution of resources on a fair basis is something the > Indian Muslims can fight for, without requiring any help from Pakistan. And > more importantly, all such terror help from Pakistan must be denounced in > all terms. > > Regards > > Rakesh Iyer > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 13:58:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:28:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901100028w3ecbbca9x8e6936401acc4c43@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Thank you for your mail. I think I agree with you on most counts. But I had a little query regarding your traffic laws example. Do you think that given the case when we already have a range of traffic laws to look into any deviant behavior would bringing new laws help? If we follow this line of argument further we will tread the same path as Mr. Bhushan has suggested in his Outlook essay and we will come to the conclusion that implementation is the key. You also hint towards implementation in your mail. The narrative of meaning making in our popular media seems to follow a circular logic of problems and solutions. Maybe that's how policy makers and politicians also operate and maybe that's why they see laws and policies as the only way with which they can bring a problem to an end. But we are neither politicians nor policy makers here, so how are we to understand and make meaning. I wanted to bring in the idea of -perception- into this thinking process because I would like to believe that most of what that we see and hear and think and read do not represent the actual state of affairs. Maybe there is no such thing as actual state of affairs, maybe there is but we do not know. Who are we to trust? The choices are limited, really- Is the Indian Statistical Institute a worthy indicator of social reality? or are our electronic and print media worthy indicators? Does their language represent reality as-it-is? What are we made to believe with every visual juxtaposition and sound byte? Is that valid? You know what I mean!! The meta narratology seems to be so obsessed with the big picture that most of the times we miss the complete picture. I know that I am talking in terms of macros here but I am hinting towards different -kinds- of macros. There seems to be a constant revision of one kind of macro. No wonder that, of lately -Remember- has emerged as the key word in the popular discourse of media coverage of terror. You are absolutely right in suggesting that all Indian Muslims must condemn any act of religious hooliganism that is carried out in their name and I believe some Indian Muslims have most vociferously condemned it too. But here too perception comes into play for I think there is some flaw in this typological idea of -Indian-Muslim. Who is this guy? This- Indian Muslim. The moment any one says -Indian Muslims- one immediately collapses tens of hundreds of religious, theological, ritual, lingual, gastronomical, sartorial divisions into this one big homogeneous entity. As an Indian who happened to be born in a muslim family I believe that there is no such thing as an Indian (Muslim). Just as there are kinds of Hindus or kinds of Jains or kinds of Buddhists or kinds of Sikhs so as there are kinds of Muslims. An Indian Muslim has got a national identity which is affirmed only in the event of carrying a identification token like a passport or ration card or voter id card etc and then one has a religious identity which is oral. Hence one is often told that one is a wahabi or a deobandi or a shia or sunni or a bohra or ahmadi or aga khani or a barelvi or pashtu etc etc. It is again a perception that there is a thing called Indian Muslim and an iconic image of non-mustached bearded man with a skull cap comes to ones mind. The point I want to hint towards is- agreed that there is a lot of unrest, also agreed some people who claim to be Indians and follow some sort of Islam were part of this social unrest in some way, but how do we capture it in our language, how do we perceive these unrests and the role of actors. Will law making, fatwa issuing gestures on part of the members of the State and followers of Islam suffice?? Or should we really start taking small steps really in articulating this phenomena. What sort of a perception are we asked to consume and why? Who is presenting the arguments in favor and in against of this preception? How are these arguments framed and presented? Of course by this I do not claim that terror of the Islamic variety will be solved but I think maybe we as citizens of this country and as consumers of interpretations, may have a one more vantage point to view this problematic. Regards Taha On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:06 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Dear all > > I would like to point out a statement made on the floor of the Parliament > by the Home Minister P.Chidambaram, as the discussion on the anti-terror law > was taking place in the Lok Sabha. He had said that these terror laws would > definitely not help in fighting jihadis, who have no fear of death and who > are ready to die for a cause. This law is being introduced to bring > confidence among the people, that the state is not just sitting idle, as > terror attacks take place throughout the country. > > Secondly, just because an anti-terror law is misused doesn't mean that the > law shouldn't be there. This is a completely nonsense argument. The traffic > laws are also misused in our country to a great deal. Does that mean that we > should not have any traffic laws? No, it means that we educate our people > about these laws, ensure that they are strictly implemented, introduce > reforms in our traffic police and provide them incentives so that they can > ensure strict implementation of such laws, and moves like these. > > Similarly, just because there are some provisions in any law, which can be > misused, doesn't mean the law must not be there. The way to fight out this > is to ensure that institutions must be created and people must be educated > on the possible misuse of the law, and how to counter it. If that means > police reforms, so be it. If that means courts intervening and punishing > officials who do so, so be it. If that means society has to change its > outlook towards those who are arrested under POTA and then acquitted for > want of any evidence, so be it. But that does not mean repeal of the law. > So, as far as those provisions which can be misused are concerned, this > certainly is the case. Let us stop misuse of the law, not repeal it. > > The only argument according to me, which is useful, is whether it's against > the basic tenet of human rights. When a person in USA or England can be > detained for upto a maximum period of 30 days, or even less than that, why > is it required that a person in India be detained till about 180 days, is > beyond comprehension. This is wrong, and hence must certainly be looked at. > > Finally, I would say that I am no supporter of anti-terror laws. I > understand it does alienate people from the society they live in. But > certainly, they are not introduced for that purpose itself as they are > supposed to perform, as the Home Minister acknowledges. And one must > understand that, for the UPA has its own compulsions to do so. To be in it's > position, is totally problematic. It has to deal with both Hindutva and > Antulay. > > And yes for Pakistan. The Indian Muslim leaders should together release a > fatwa telling the Pakistani Muslims to mind their own business, and that the > justice and redistribution of resources on a fair basis is something the > Indian Muslims can fight for, without requiring any help from Pakistan. And > more importantly, all such terror help from Pakistan must be denounced in > all terms. > > Regards > > Rakesh Iyer > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 14:20:58 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:20:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? In-Reply-To: <341380d00901100015j6c3d1fffjb13b33e746b077c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00901100015j6c3d1fffjb13b33e746b077c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Anupam (and all), > > I was very happy on receiving your reply. At least I must say someone > replied to me. My issue is not of arguments, for they only lead to heartburn > and nothing else. It's discussions, without involving any egos. I don't know > whether you had an ego issue or not, nor can I say it. It's for you to > answer, and I think it's always better to keep that answer to yourself. I > had my doubts about such a thing happening, that's all I can say. > > Now to your arguments. As I said in the end, I am not a supporter of > anti-terror laws. First of all, a law should serve the purpose it is meant > for. As I said, and as Chidambaram himself stated, since any POTA or TADA or > any UAPA or GUJCOC or MCOCA or any other act, will not stop a jihadi or any > Sadhvi or any great pastor from committing a terror act, it is a useless > act. After all, any law is supposed to help in social control (which means > things run as per norm of the society, whatever those norms be), and thereby > bring some kind of social stability. Secondly, laws are effective only for > those people, who have respect for their own lives. Since terrorists have no > regard for their own life, it's useless to expect that any anti-terror law > can help in solving this problem. > > Secondly, my idea was not to compare traffic with terror. If that is what > you wish to compare, then fine, I can also talk about dacoity, rapes and > murders, which can be synonymous with terror as well. These are also > activities which terrorise people. Riots are also something which terrorise > people. The fact is that in India, as many cases show, the conviction rate > would be abysmal for many crimes like dacoity, rapes and murders in many > states in India. Even if not abysmal, it would certainly not be > satisfactory. Does that mean we shouldn't have any laws for these things?? > No. > > It only means that laws are required, but provisions must be made to > implement them properly. But of course, if the law is not serving the > purpose it was meant to, or will not do so, then there is no use of the law. > And here is where I oppose POTA, or any anti terror law. All things like > arrests of innocents in the name of terrorism are of course massive defects, > and instead of stopping terrorist from what they wish to do, they will only > bring about creation of more alienated people, if not more terrorists. > > But what we wish to do now, will beg the question. Many say that people > will be alienated, specifically Muslims being alienated. Let me ask all this > question. Don't you think the middle class belonging to Hindu religion feel > alienated by the so called 'appeasement' politics by parties across India? > Isn't voting for the BJP, a right-wing party, itself an alienation from the > secular and tolerant foundations upon which India was supposed to be built? > And who will end this alienation? When I refer to appeasement, it doesn' t > mean pleasing someone; it means pleasing someone for the sake of pleasing, > for the sake of just gaining votes as the Congress and it's sister parties > do, rather than doing something for them, as the Sachar Committee Report > proves. > > But who is going to stop this alienation of Hindus? Today, anytime a > general election is carried across India, BJP will definitely win at least > 20% votes. Most of those vote for it in the name of religion. Aren't these > people alienated as well from something? What about them? Will any solution > for terrorism simply over ride their views? > > Finally, to your last two points. You mentioned Gujarat has a staff > shortage. That was a problem in 2002 and still continues. If Modi wishes to > solve the problem of terror through a law than police reforms, then it's no > use. And definitely, if politicians are trying to stop any reform in police, > then civil society should concentrate on agitations to pressurize > politicians to introduce these reforms, rather than doing so to make them > resign, like Patil or Deshmukh did, simply because mass resignations will > also not solve the problem. > > And the last point. You asked me why fatwa? Because of two reasons. Most of > the blasts are being done in the name of Islam, if not all. I acknowledge > the fact that in many of the cases, the convictions are not being proved for > majority of accused, or sometimes all of them. While this points to the > incapability of the police to properly carry out investigation, it doesn't > remove the perception from the public's minds that a section of Indian > Muslims have carried out the blasts. I remember Digvijay Singh's statement, > which he made as a CM, ' Only 1% of Hindus and Muslims are communal. Rest > are secular'. > > It's these Muslims and Hindus who bring about Gujarat riots 2002, Mumbai > riots 1992-93, Mumbai blasts 93, or others. It's these people who indirectly > or directly support such things. > > The second reason is that Gandhi, the father of our Nation, had realized > the importance of religion in Indian life. You can't remove religion from > India. Hence the fatwa. I also ask here for all shankaracharyas in India to > denounce so called RSS-BJP-VHP terrorism, and ask people to not support such > parties in elections, which thrive on bloodbaths and riots. > > The Mumbai attacks were done to serve the cause of Indian Muslims. Hence, I > would ask them to issue a fatwa for this purpose. It is a strong message. > And it doesn't signify they are terrorists. It simply reinforces a known > fact for us, but an unknown fact for those across the border who are > indulging in malicious propaganda to serve their political ends, that we are > all one and united. And nobody, ISI, Indian Mujahideen or the > RSS-VHP-BJP-Bajrang Dal nexus can hinder us in the path of development, the > path which could bring smiles on to the face of each and every person in > India and around the world. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 14:43:13 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:43:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Are Tougher Laws The Answer? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901100028w3ecbbca9x8e6936401acc4c43@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901092032oa9f013egfd830dc75e63bc95@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901100028w3ecbbca9x8e6936401acc4c43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha First of all thanks for reading my mail. And I will try to respond to the points you raised as much as I can. The question of identity in our nation has been always a problematic one. Hindus have divisions amongst themselves in the ways of caste, creed, language, religion and so on. Ironically, there are many tribals, who are categorized in the Indian census as Hindus, but don't consider themselves as Hindus. Infact, as scholars themselves say, Hinduism is a way of life, not a religion. And I do agree. It's this diversity that makes it rich. Also, they are divided in the political and social sense. Dalits vote for different political party compared to Thakurs. And Dalits have different social concerns today than Thakurs. Islam has by and large never supported divisions, as I believe (that's what I have knowledge from my Muslim friends). But of course, identities are always different. Having said that, thanks to the media portrayal, as well as the political parties, Muslims have always been considered as a homogeneous vote bank. And the further use of this by BJP and other right-wing parties for suiting their ends, has ensured that this identity difference has never been delved to. It has struck to form perceptions, in minds of the nation and the world, including me. The way this perception has been built up is wrong. After all, different identities of a person should not be necessarily prioritised with. All identities have an equal backing for me, and I believe for everybody. Hence, to play with one's identity for political purpose backed with violence, is certainly something I can't approve of. Having said that, it's ironical that not only me or the Indians, even people like Kasab have forgotten these differences in identity. I don't think the Holy Quran ever says that in Jihad, the message is to just kill someone to build the hegemony of the so-constructed Allah (this Allah is constructed by these great conservatists, the likes of whom are represented by Laden, Mullah Omar, and others). Similarly, even in Hindus, the diversity of the practices has been totally forgotten. Instead, the BJP wants all Hindus to follow Hindutva, a philosophy developed by an atheist called Savarkar. But of course, those who understand religion, are deeply spiritual, and such people know religious books will never say such things. Hence Taha jee, I agree with you. It's time that we do ask questions. But of course, I would emphasize the reason I asked fatwa and law. I emphasized fatwa because religion has an impact on the Indian subcontinent. I would like religion to be used constructively, as Gandhiji envisaged and himself practiced. If this means we can use it to denounce terrorists, what is the harm. It is a beginning only, and the different aspects must certainly be looked at. But it pains me when I find that people are saying that religion is not the solution. Religion is the solution for the people to be brought back from the fictitious perceptory world they are being forced to live in. Gandhiji proved that. He knew that no religion believes greed is right. Today, with the economic meltdown thanks to subprime lending crisis in USA which is driving others down as well, we still fail to realize that. We are not taught culture in homes, but we learn it through humanities and social sciences courses. We don't read and understand religion, both in words, ethical and moral practice. The result is the creation of terrorists. What Sadhvi Pragya and Lashkars are taught are simply bigoted vocabulary to think of the 'other' as an enemy, which has resulted in all the problems. The Indian Govt may still develop the Muslims economically. Right. But then, there is something called an Inner development. Who is going to bring that? That's not the responsibility of the Indian Govt. It's achieved through something, which has been the cornerstone of the Indian civilization, religion and basically not even religion, but spirituality. It's there that I seek a solution. I am not asking people to become swamis and maulvis leaving every part of life. Neither can I become a Buddha, nor am I asking others to do so. A Westernized system was supposed to bring peace. It has destroyed us totally. What is the only solution? To ensure our children learn about religion and culture, regions, language, to ensure they morally practice religion, rather than just reading it. If the so called bigots of religion have wrecked the peace, it's the same religion which will give rise to many who will bring peace. Like Gandhi. Like Jesus. I know many would oppose me of being religious and foolish, even insane.And I have no shame for the same. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 15:56:02 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:26:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901092125k73d0e48byfb33cfc73b2af672@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <141897.3366.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   Who would be the "Terrorist"? NATURE / GOD THE TERRORIST?   Dont you think that your philosophy of your semantics in this case is going out on a limb? Going to 'Hysterialand'.   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:55 AM Dear all, I wonder why does the Indian media houses shy away from calling un natural deaths of three thousand and five hundred Indians as 'TERROR' too which is over five times as more as Palestinians butchered by Israelis and over FIFTEEN times more than who were murdered in Bombay recently. Regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nearly-3-500-lives-lost-in-floods-in-2008-report/403253/ Nearly 3,500 lives lost in floods in 2008: Report Agencies Posted: Dec 26, 2008 at 1645 hrs IST New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country this year due to floods which also damaged over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year.ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year. ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year. Related Stories: New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country this year due to floods which also damaged over 20 lakh houses and led to the deaths of 45,000 cattle. The state which saw highest number of deaths due to floods in 2008 was Uttar Pradesh with 1,210 losing their lives. Bihar was second with 524 deaths, followed by West Bengal with 288, a Home Ministry report said. Over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states and the Union Territory of Puducherry. The states which were not affected due to floods this year are Jammu and Kashmir, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland and Tripura. "In floods in various parts of the country, a total of 3402 people were killed. 43,383 cattle were lost and 20,52, 763 houses were damaged," a Home Ministry official said. In terms of cultivable land affected due to floods, Tamil Nadu topped the list with 5.97 lakh hectare being affected due to floods this year. It was followed by Uttar Pradesh with 4.98 lakh hectares and Orissa with 4.45 lakh hectares. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 16:10:08 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:40:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <141897.3366.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40901092125k73d0e48byfb33cfc73b2af672@mail.gmail.com> <141897.3366.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, Thank you for your comment. Could you please elucidate on the following, for I am not clear on some issues? 1. Do you really think that in India all floods and famines and hunger death are nature or god made? If you think so, then could you please provide the necessary evidence for this assertion. 2. Could you kindly explain as what is exactly wrong in emphasizing towards a particular word? I believe that terror as a word is important and this word Sir! encapsulates certain meanings, I feel quite confused when these meanings are extrapolated and imposed when certain events happen and not when similar events happen. Warm regards Taha On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Taha > > Who would be the "Terrorist"? NATURE / GOD THE TERRORIST? > > Dont you think that your philosophy of your semantics in this case is going > out on a limb? Going to 'Hysterialand'. > > Kshmendra > > --- On *Sat, 1/10/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>* wrote: > > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:55 AM > > Dear all, > > I wonder why does the Indian media houses shy away from calling un > natural deaths of three thousand and five hundred Indians as 'TERROR' > too which is over five times as more as Palestinians butchered by > Israelis and over FIFTEEN times more than who were murdered in Bombay > recently. > > Regards > > Taha > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nearly-3-500-lives-lost-in-floods-in-2008-report/403253/ > > > Nearly 3,500 lives lost in floods in 2008: Report > > Agencies Posted: Dec 26, 2008 at 1645 hrs IST > > New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country > this year due to floods which also damaged over 35.18 lakh hectares of > cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this > year.ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged > due to floods in 21 states this year. > > ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due > to floods in 21 states this year. > Related Stories: > New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country > this year due to floods which also damaged over 20 lakh houses and led > to the deaths of 45,000 cattle. > > The state which saw highest number of deaths due to floods in 2008 was > Uttar Pradesh with 1,210 losing their lives. Bihar was second with 524 > deaths, followed by West Bengal with 288, a Home Ministry report said. > > Over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due > to floods in 21 states and the Union Territory of Puducherry. > > The states which were not affected due to floods this year are Jammu > and Kashmir, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland and Tripura. > > "In floods in various parts of the country, a total of 3402 people > were killed. 43,383 cattle were lost and 20,52, 763 houses were > damaged," a Home Ministry official said. > > In terms of cultivable land affected due to floods, Tamil Nadu topped > the list with 5.97 lakh hectare being affected due to floods this > year. > > It was followed by Uttar Pradesh with 4.98 lakh hectares and Orissa > with 4.45 lakh hectares. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 16:59:59 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:59:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901092125k73d0e48byfb33cfc73b2af672@mail.gmail.com> <141897.3366.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha I appreciate the response you put up, specially as it clarifies things. But I think that the way the article has been originally put up, it would make one wonder that God is being described as the terrorist.And as that was not what you meant to express, I think it would have been better to highlight human negligence in such cases. I do agree with the points raised through your questions. Bihar floods are basically a result of human negligence. And so is the case with most, if not all, environmental calamities. But the way the article has been put up, instead makes someone believe God is being blamed for it. Regards Rakesh From sebastian at rolux.org Fri Jan 9 13:39:37 2009 From: sebastian at rolux.org (Pirate Cinema Bombay) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:39:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sun, Jan 11, 7 pm: Berlin, World Capital of Negativity Message-ID: <684DC66B-6960-422D-8536-DDDE3AC98529@rolux.org> Pirate Cinema Bombay Berlin, World Capital of Negativity Sunday, January 11 7 pm - 10 pm www.piratecinema.org Ticket of No Return directed by Ulrike Ottinger with Tabea Blumenschein, Nina Hagen, Eddie Constantine, Martin Kippenberger 1979, 110 mins, 1.4 GB Possession directed by Andrzej Zulawski with Isabelle Adjani, Sam Neill, Margit Carstensen, Heinz Bennent 1981, 120 mins, 1 GB CAMP Rooftop 301 Alif Apartments 34A Chuim Village Khar West www.camputer.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BERLIN, name - polabian: "swamp", vulgar: "built on sand"; a "political abstraction" (Maurice Blanchot), a "position from which there is no escape" (Joseph Goebbels), a "conglomerate of calamities" (Frank Wedekind), a "curse" (Alfred Döblin); an "attitude of defiance mingled with self- conceit" (Walter Benjamin), the political condition of being "poor but sexy" (Klaus Wowereit) NEGATIVITY, noun - organized negation, collective expression of antagonism, denial or refutation, application of destructive forces within a political struggle that is not aimed at a positive goal and usually directed against the state and its organs; critical negativity - to employ the power of negation in a critical situation: "I have been hit by a taxi", "my wife has left me", etc.; dialectical negativity - the negatively dialectical reversal of the concept of negative dialectics, negativity applied to itself, affirming - but refusing to accept as total or self-identical - the object of negation: "no future", "punk's not dead" etc.; historical-political negativity - any sustained political effort that aims to make the sum of a specific historical process less than zero. Commonly cited causes of negativity: bad weather, bad food, bad housing, the Great Depression, the Cold War, the German Reunification (see: Berlin) TO CAPTURE THE SPIRIT OF A CITY, expression - 1. to drink oneself to death: to capture the spirits of a city (to never return from a city); 2. to find the monster one's wife is having an affair with: to chase the ghosts of a city (to be possessed by a city); 3. to build a wall around a city (see: negativity) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- () >< pirate cinema bombay sundays from 7 to 10 www.piratecinema.org From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 17:39:20 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:09:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   Dont you think it is rather sly to not answer the question asked and instead pose a question in response. That too with a devious expanding of the purview from "Flood Deaths" that you started off referring to, on to 'famines and hunger death' which completely changes the terms of reference?   You wondered why the Media does not call the 'Flood Deaths' as "Terror".   If the "Flood Deaths" are a consequence of "Terror" then it is you who needs to specify who the "Terrorist" is who is responsible for these 3,500 "Flood Deaths" that you referred to.   Humouring you in your calling the "Flood Deaths" as "Terror" I put the responsibility of those deaths on "NATURE / GOD the Terrorist".   If you do not agree and place the responsibilty for "Flood Deaths" elsewhere, then it is you who must evidence your claim giving details for each one of the "Flood Death" instances that total up to 3,500. You will need to prove that the INTENTION was to 'terrorise'   It is you who seems to be trivialising and taking the emphasis away from the meaning of "Terror".   Not only India, but most of the globe is struggling under the ravages of "Terror"; "Terrorism"; "Terrorists". The extrapolation of 'certain meanings' that these words 'encapsulate'  and 'imposition' is being done by you with your ridiculous categorising of "Flood Deaths" as "Terror".   If you were to say that there are certain actions and policies that are corrupt, unethical and  driven by greed and profiteering with little or no regard for what human suffering they might cause I would have no argument with that. I would have no argument with categorising such actions and policies as ones the CONSEQUENCES of which can be "TERRIFYING".      Different from this is an act of "Terror" where the basis for the act and the desired result  is to  'terrify'. The very INTENTION is to terrify, to start with. The sole INTENTION is to terrify.     Kshmendra         --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 4:10 PM Dear Kshmendra, Thank you for your comment. Could you please elucidate on the following, for I am not clear on some issues? 1. Do you really think that in India all floods and famines and hunger death are nature or god made? If you think so, then could you please provide the necessary evidence for this assertion. 2. Could you kindly explain as what is exactly wrong in emphasizing towards a particular word? I believe that terror as a word is important and this word Sir! encapsulates certain meanings, I feel quite confused when these meanings are extrapolated and imposed when certain events happen and not when similar events happen. Warm regards Taha On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Taha   Who would be the "Terrorist"? NATURE / GOD THE TERRORIST?   Dont you think that your philosophy of your semantics in this case is going out on a limb? Going to 'Hysterialand'.   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:55 AM Dear all, I wonder why does the Indian media houses shy away from calling un natural deaths of three thousand and five hundred Indians as 'TERROR' too which is over five times as more as Palestinians butchered by Israelis and over FIFTEEN times more than who were murdered in Bombay recently. Regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nearly-3-500-lives-lost-in-floods-in-2008-report/403253/ Nearly 3,500 lives lost in floods in 2008: Report Agencies Posted: Dec 26, 2008 at 1645 hrs IST New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country this year due to floods which also damaged over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year.ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year. ver 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states this year. Related Stories: New Delhi: Nearly 3,500 people have lost their lives in the country this year due to floods which also damaged over 20 lakh houses and led to the deaths of 45,000 cattle. The state which saw highest number of deaths due to floods in 2008 was Uttar Pradesh with 1,210 losing their lives. Bihar was second with 524 deaths, followed by West Bengal with 288, a Home Ministry report said. Over 35.18 lakh hectares of cultivable land have also been damaged due to floods in 21 states and the Union Territory of Puducherry. The states which were not affected due to floods this year are Jammu and Kashmir, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland and Tripura. "In floods in various parts of the country, a total of 3402 people were killed. 43,383 cattle were lost and 20,52, 763 houses were damaged," a Home Ministry official said. In terms of cultivable land affected due to floods, Tamil Nadu topped the list with 5.97 lakh hectare being affected due to floods this year. It was followed by Uttar Pradesh with 4.98 lakh hectares and Orissa with 4.45 lakh hectares. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Jan 9 12:35:33 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (VideoChannel) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 08:05:33 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_One_minu?= =?iso-8859-1?q?te_films_and_videos?= Message-ID: <20090109080533.D19017A2.3918822F@192.168.0.3> Call for entries Deadline: 2 March 2009 > -------------------------------------------- VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest:org is looking for "one minute films and videos" on the theme "memory " and "identity" for an online feature and future screening programs. Please find the entry regulations and form on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=447 > --------------------------------------------- VideoChannel - video project environments is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetworjk]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net the experimental plattform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany. _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From iram at sarai.net Sat Jan 10 17:50:02 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:50:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] THE IMMIGRANT SCENE: Ethnic Amusements in New York, Sabine Haenni Message-ID: <49689272.3040304@sarai.net> Fwd: ============== Please post this to Sarai Reader List. Also, please let me know if you'd like to review the book for your listserv. Thanks! Best wishes, Anne Klingbeil Advertising and Promotions Coordinator University of Minnesota Press 111 Third Avenue South, Suite 290 Minneapolis, MN 55401-2520 612-627-1938 _http://www.upress.umn.edu_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * * *Explores the relationship between immigrant and national culture.* THE IMMIGRANT SCENE: Ethnic Amusements in New York, 1880-1920 Sabine Haenni University of Minnesota Press | 336 pages | 2008 ISBN 978-0-8166-4981-5 | hardcover | $75.00 ISBN 978-0-8166-4982-2 | paperback | $25.00 Sabine Haenni reveals how theaters in New York created ethnic entertainment that shaped the culture of the United States in the early twentieth century. In analyzing how communities engaged with immigrant theaters and the nascent film culture in New York City, Haenni traces the ways in which performance and cinema provided virtual mobility and influenced national ideas of immigration, culture, and diversity in surprising ways. "A big, bold, and important book./ The Immigrant Scene/ breaks new ground in urban cultural history and performance studies while building bridges between earlier works of history and a new generation of scholarship. " -Robert W. Snyder, author of/ The Voice of the City: Vaudeville and Popular Culture in New York/ Sabine Haenni is associate professor in the Department of Theatre, Film, and Dance and in the American Studies Program at Cornell University. For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/H/haenni_immigrant.html Sign up to receive news on the latest releases from University of Minnesota Press: _http://www.upress.umn.edu/eform.html_ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 10 18:12:36 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:42:36 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, Dear Rakesh, Thank you for your posts. We seem to be moving in the range of ad hominem arguments and I have no desire to be dragged into that. So for the sake of reinstatement of my views kindly allow me to present my thoughts again. 1. Events related to loss of human life, property, and livelihood are happening in our country. 2. These events are framed and articulated by our media. 3. Media frames some of these events as 'Terror' and 'Terrorism' others are not given this tag. when I say -Terror- I refer to the following interpretation- c.1375 "great fear," from O.Fr. terreur (14c.), from L. terrorem (nom. terror) "great fear, dread," from terrere "fill with fear, frighten," from PIE base *tre- "shake" (see terrible). Meaning "quality of causing dread" is attested from 1528; terror bombingfirst recorded 1941, with ref. to German air attack on Rotterdam. Sense of "a person fancied as a source of terror" (often with deliberate exaggeration, as of a naughty child) is recorded from 1883. The Reign of Terror in Fr. history (March 1793-July 1794) so called in Eng. from 1801. O.E. words for "terror" included broga and egesa. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none and by Terrorism my interpretation is informed by the reading below- terrorism [image: Look up terrorism at Dictionary.com]1795, in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror in France" (1793-July 1794), from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see terror ). "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis in a time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent." [Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794] General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded in Eng. 1798. Terrorize "coerce or deter by terror" first recorded 1823. Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947, especially in reference to Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine -- earlier it was used of extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the French Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste. The tendency of one party's terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter was noted in ref. to the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973). The word terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively, to the Maquis resistance in occupied France in World War II (e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, 1979). http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none 4. I was curious that why does one type of event is constructed as -Terrorism- or -Terror- while the other not? Warm regards Taha From parthaekka at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 20:42:56 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:42:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990901100712s6527a9c7q6427cdcc3504d88f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, Before we start running around like a dog chasing it's tail, let's segregate two different aspects of a 'terrifying' event. To keep things in scope, let's take something simple like a lightning strike. If I was struck by lightning (or it came close to me), would certainly be terrified - or perhaps dead. However, to identify the event / person / group behind the act that scared me as a 'terrorist' would first have to be able to define it / them as thinking individuals who planned the event. This you too have included in the definitions that you included. Taking that into consideration, whom are you pointing at as the thinking party that caused the flood ? Rgds, Partha ........................ On 10/01/2009, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra, Dear Rakesh, > > Thank you for your posts. > > We seem to be moving in the range of ad hominem arguments and I have no > desire to be dragged into that. > > So for the sake of reinstatement of my views kindly allow me to present my > thoughts again. > > 1. Events related to loss of human life, property, and livelihood are > happening in our country. > 2. These events are framed and articulated by our media. > 3. Media frames some of these events as 'Terror' and 'Terrorism' others are > not given this tag. > > when I say -Terror- I refer to the following interpretation- > > c.1375 "great fear," from O.Fr. terreur (14c.), from L. terrorem (nom. > terror) "great fear, dread," from terrere "fill with fear, frighten," from > PIE base *tre- "shake" (see > terrible). > Meaning "quality of causing dread" is attested from 1528; terror > bombingfirst recorded 1941, with ref. to German air attack on > Rotterdam. Sense of > "a person fancied as a source of terror" (often with deliberate > exaggeration, as of a naughty child) is recorded from 1883. The Reign of > Terror in Fr. history (March 1793-July 1794) so called in Eng. from 1801. > O.E. words for "terror" included broga and egesa. > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none > > and by Terrorism my interpretation is informed by the reading below- > terrorism [image: > Look > up terrorism at > Dictionary.com]1795, > in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror in > France" (1793-July 1794), from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see > terror ). > > "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis in > a > time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror > would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent." > [Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794] > > General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded > in > Eng. 1798. Terrorize "coerce or deter by terror" first recorded 1823. > Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947, especially in reference to > Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine -- earlier it was used of > extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the French > Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste. The tendency of one party's > terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter was noted in ref. to > the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973). The > word > terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively, to the Maquis > resistance > in occupied France in World War II (e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, > 1979). > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none > > 4. I was curious that why does one type of event is constructed as > -Terrorism- or -Terror- while the other not? > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 23:01:43 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:01:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Electronic I-cards for fishermen soon Message-ID: <3457ce860901100931k17ffe011y27b25973f1d4c51c@mail.gmail.com> *Electronic I-cards for fishermen soon * *Date:10/01/2009* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2009/01/10/stories/2009011051710500.htm* ** Ignatius Pereira *Project to be implemented in coordination with Home Department * ------------------------------ * It is to be funded by the Centre Fishermen's union welcomes move * ------------------------------ KOLLAM: The State government will soon issue electronic identity cards (e-cards) to seafaring fishermen in the State. Fisheries director P.I. Sheik Pareeth told *The Hindu* here on Friday that e-cards were being issued in the larger interests of national security. The cards will also provide a sense of security to fishermen in the high seas when they prove their identity to coastal and sea protection agencies. It would help prevent unnecessary harassment of fishermen at sea, Mr. Pareeth said. Cards to cost Rs.40 He said about 1.25 lakh e-cards would be issued to fishermen under the project, to be implemented in coordination with the Home Department. The card will contain details about its holder and will cost Rs.40 each. The project is being funded by the Government of India, he said. Mr. Pareeth said Kerala would become the first coastal State in the country to issue e-cards to fishermen. It will be made mandatory for seafaring fishermen to carry the cards. The cards will complement the proposed high security registration number plates for all fishing vessels registered in the State. He said it would be made mandatory for fishermen from other States entering the Kerala waters to take permits to be issued by the Fisheries Department for a specified period. Those seeking such permits should have a local sponsor from the fishing community, preferably with an E-card identity. The Kerala Swatanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation has welcomed the move to introduce e-cards. T. Peter, State president of the Federation, said the fishermen's community had, in fact, been asking for such an identity for long. This was also raised as a request at a recent meeting called by Home Minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan, with representatives of the fishing community on cooperation pertaining to coastal security, he said. In the wake of the Mumbai terror attacks, the high seas have been brought under strict vigil and combing operations by security agencies. In such a situation, the e-cards would be of immense help to fishermen to establish their bona fides, Mr. Peter said adding that it was good move that would help bring about better cooperation between the security agencies and fishermen towards ensuring coastal security. From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 23:28:52 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:58:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty In-Reply-To: <137F399118264E9D8E315521E93797DD@tara> Message-ID: <272803.65098.qm@web52203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu I am sorry, I don't want to engage myself with this type of fascist, vulgar and to some extent, indo-centric comment. I wonder how such comments pass through moderators approval. I also wonder at the silences of the 'tolerant' Indians on these remarks! --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Vidya wrote: > From: Vidya > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty > To: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:50 PM > Insightful my foot! What is new in this? I pity your level > of intellect if you think you are providing something new to > the list by forwarding this fucking stale stuff. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Swadhin Sen" > > To: > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 1:59 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, > and sovereignty > > > > An insightful piece that could introduce us to the > comfort of the discomfort... > > > > > [http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/2008/12/15/violence-publicity-and-sovereignty/] > > > > Mumbai 11/26: > > > > Violence, publicity, and sovereignty > > posted by Arvind Rajagopal > > > > Mumbai’s Gateway of India was built to greet King > Edward V of England when he arrived in 1911 for the Delhi > Durbar, to inaugurate the new capital city. Like the new > capital, the Gateway in Mumbai symbolized civilizational > progress for the empire on which the sun never set. However, > Britain’s empire was established through the fluidity of > maritime space, and piracy on the high seas was a crucial > means through which the older imperium of Spain and Portugal > was challenged in the 16th century. Lawless violence often > preceded the rule of law. Queen Elizabeth I bestowed > knighthoods on Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh and other > “privateers,” all entrepreneurs who advanced state > power. British sovereignty was thus founded on non-state > actors, the most famous of which was the East India Company, > whose lawless incursions provoked the demand for the rule of > law. > > > > Today we are once more at a time when lawless violence > proliferates and territorial boundaries are infringed upon, > when state leaders invoke “non-state actors” and argue > for the need to respond in kind. Are new political > formations taking shape in our midst, even as we defend the > old order? > > On November 26, 2008, terrorists arrived by sea and > entered near the Gateway, making an entrance not unlike the > pirates of yesteryear. The event is described as India’s > 9/11, with enemy intruders committing murder and mayhem. > “9/11″ has become a nationalizing mantra across the > globe, an invocation to remember violence in order to garner > consent for violent retaliation. In an earlier age non-state > actors, such as pirates, merged with the state. Today the > state mimics the behavior of private parties, justifying > violence as revenge and practicing torture as the just > desserts of terrorists. War has become the preferred means > of practicing politics under the guise of opposing > terrorism, and it is endorsed as a sacred duty. > > In the rush to affiliate the Mumbai attacks with the > global war on terror, some point to Pakistan as the root > cause. Calling these attacks “India’s 9/11″ bolsters > the demand that the country strike hard and fast, although > the global nature of terrorism may involve an outsourcing of > retribution. This speaks to both the long-standing failures > of the Indian state and to the increasing discrimination in > civil society and the media against Muslims. > > > > Many have said that the attacks are part of a pattern > of revenge for repeated anti-Muslim violence in different > parts of the country that were led by Hindu nationalists, > most prominently in 1992 and in 2002. None of the guilty > Hindu parties in either of these situations were brought to > book. The violent response to the Hindu nationalists’ > carnage in 1992, which left more than one thousand dead, was > conceived and financed by people in Karachi and Dubai. > Mumbai, at the time, was the third corner of the economic > and cultural zone formed by these cities, and thus was a > logical choice of target. When the attack was initiated by > Muslims the perpetrators were pursued with abundant vigor, > and numerous innocents were punished along with some guilty > men. > > > > The recent events are only the latest of numerous > attacks in cities across India. In Mumbai alone 209 people > were killed in bombed suburban trains in 2006, and blasts in > 1993 killed more than 250. As the Indian state continually > fails to provide justice, private parties have chosen to > settle accounts through public violence. The message this > violence has conveyed is that if the Indian state will not > protect Muslim citizens, their allies close by will try and > do so. The culmination of this violent exchange has been > further mimetic violence, this time by the state. In 2002, > state authorities in Gujarat aided in the massacre of more > than two thousand Muslims, in retaliation for sixty Hindus > killed. Census rolls and municipal records were used to > strike at Muslim homes and businesses, the sacrificial > victims in the Gujarat state’s successful electoral > campaigns. In turn, other cities have been targeted for > further retaliatory terror attacks. > > As national boundaries become more fluid and politics > render nation-states less capable of representing their > citizens, cities turn into battle zones and urban spaces are > weaponized. Cities suffer from severe economic and social > segregation, and the slums of the poor are demolished in the > name of urban beautification, moved to the city outskirts, > squeezed by high-rises, and bypassed by flyovers that render > ghettos invisible to the privileged. Muslim residents in > India are overwhelmingly concentrated in such areas, and, in > episodes of Hindu nationalist violence, have been the > principal victims of assaults. > > > > In Ahmedabad, in many ways a sister city to Mumbai’s > Gujarati financial elite and professional classes, the > anti-Muslim violence in 2002 was almost entirely contained > in the older, eastern half of the city, leaving the more > affluent western part of the city largely unscathed. Muslims > in India have, for some time, been treated as internal > enemies, through a combination of covert and overt > socio-economic boycotts, state discrimination, episodes of > intense political violence, and anti-terror legislation > granting judicial powers to police. Those who participated > in the November attacks in Mumbai were reportedly shown > films of the Gujarat killings, as well as others, such as > the demolition of Babri Masjid in 1992, as part of their > indoctrination during training. > > > > A Muslim school teacher in Naroda Patia, one of the > worst-affected areas during the Gujarat violence, spoke to > me indignantly about experiencing one such boycott combined > with rampant discrimination: “The people who treat us like > this—I will not say that they are alive. If they simply > believe what they are told, and treat human beings as if > they did not exist, where is the spirit of life in them? I > will say they are dead people.” > > Violence is not limited to the physical act of > killing. It can be carried out through forms of interaction > and through the refusal to acknowledge the humanity of > others. The restoration of order may not bring peace so much > as serve to store and delay the release of violent energies, > in a circuit that brings politics and everyday life into > intimate contact. Muslims in many parts of the country have > experienced ostracism amounting to social death, and are > pushed to the very margins of the economy. In 2006 The > Justice Sachar Committee reported that the condition of > Muslims had deteriorated to such a point that they were > worse off than the untouchable caste, which has > traditionally occupied the lowest rung of Indian society. > > > > The recent terror strikes may be Pakistani or > transnational in their financing and implementation, but the > urban geography in which it unfolded can be recognized from > previous episodes of a more domestic violence. The > difference is that this time, as in 1993, rich areas, not > poor ones, were targeted. In both sets of cases, violence in > media-dark ghettos has been followed by violence in the most > public and media-bright parts of the city. The conception > and execution of terrorism is both a method of violence and > a method of publicity. > > > > Media Effects > > > > The media has expanded rapidly in India in recent > years—with nearly two-thirds of the country now watching > television with some regularity—which has made it into one > of the principal motors of the economy. This tertiary > ‘service sector’ industry has become more profitable > than the primary or secondary sectors. > > > > The attacks this past November are the first terror > attacks in India to occur under the full glare of media > spotlights, and, after many years of state-controlled media, > in an era in which private broadcasters dominate the > airwaves. Dozens of 24-hour news channels vie for the Indian > audience, many of them subsidiaries of transnational media > corporations. Few television markets in developing countries > have witnessed such competition in news; it represents an > attempt by businesses to capture the premium audience > segment (which disproportionately tunes into news programs) > while the entry costs are still relatively low, and viewer > preferences are unformed. > > > > In the past, when such violence occurred, the first > response by the state-controlled media would be a news > blackout, followed by terse and occasional news bulletins > aimed at the political management of the situation; public > safety took second place to the self-preservation of the > ruling party. Citizens had to rely on rumors for > information, and of course the source was never certain. > Although there was often alarm and panic, any citizen > responses were necessarily more diffuse. The role of an > organized response was reserved for the state, which > controlled the instruments of mass communication. > > > > Since private media emerged, bomb blasts have occurred > and drawn media attention, but these broadcasts always began > after the explosions were over. The same was true for armed > assaults, such as the attack on the Parliament buildings in > New Delhi in December, 2001; news coverage had to diagnose > dormant scenes of the crime, and thus lacked the capacity to > retain audiences. > > > > The latest attacks in Mumbai, by comparison, have > received saturation coverage. There is no doubt that those > who designed the attacks drew on the idea that the media > constitutes war by other means; live action news about > violence is akin to sequenced bomb blasts that can retain > audiences for a length of time. Executed during the > Thanksgiving holidays and located in tourist venues and > heritage monuments, clearly including American and British > persons in their targets, these attacks stretched over days. > A global audience was envisaged for these attacks. The > volume of coverage inevitably magnified the impact of the > violence, prolonging its duration and escalating its > rhetoric. The recent events are routinely described as > India’s worst-ever terror attack, which not only ignores > the greater toll of the 1993 blasts, but assumes that the > numerous episodes of violence against Muslims, that claimed > many hundreds more lives and often took place with the > covert > > or overt support of law-enforcement agencies, did not > constitute “terror.” > > > > The question that has transfixed the media and > provoked a demand for an answer is: who sponsored the > killings, and how will they be caught? The question of why > terror was launched was seldom asked, so habituated and > dependent are the media to the spectacle of violence. The > view of the media is akin to that of a policeman—the point > is to catch the culprit. > > With terrorism, the news media, and the police—and > should we add, the judiciary?—seem to have merged > together. We get information about attacks planned in > Pakistan, emerging from the interrogation of the one > attacker caught alive. No one can be under any illusion that > this information comes from anywhere other than a torture > chamber, but that vital and complicating bit of news is > omitted. Also omitted is the possibility of Salafi funding > from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere for the suspected groups, > such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Muhammad and > Jamaat-ud-Dawa, whose names keep changing. The tense but > complicitous relationship between the United States and > Saudi Arabia, that helps to preserve absolutist rule in that > country, is far too academic a point to even be mentioned in > the police drama unfolded by television news. > > > > After many years of protesting state-controlled > broadcasting, private news media now sets the terms of > discourse on Indian airwaves, but the result is not what was > foreseen by free speech advocates. Instead of official > propaganda, which no one believed, audiences in India now > get crime news, which sidesteps the tedium of argument and > party line and spotlights violence instead. > > > > Violence, when it occurs, is ideally meant to confirm > that the law is being enforced. When violence is in defiance > of the law and intended as a spectacle, the harm is physical > as well as symbolic—the ability of the law to control > public space is challenged. We might say that the intention > of such terrorism is to drive a wedge between the law and > its representation, as well as to unsettle our understanding > of the relationship between violence and visibility. To be > seen in a public space could be to enter the crosshairs of a > killer, whereas to remain invisible is safe. Terrorism thus > inverts our understanding of the meaning of publicity, > making the visible a site of persistent danger and of > suspended legality. > > > > While the state invokes non-state actors to authorize > new forms of political intervention, the media take on > increasingly state-like characteristics. Despite being > unelected representatives, their demands have more effect. > Previous episodes of violence in Mumbai, e.g. in 1993, made > no difference to the tenure of political leaders at that > time, although numerous allegations were made against some > of them. Although the death toll is smaller on this > occasion, the Union Home Minister and the Chief Minister of > Maharashtra have had to summarily vacate their offices, > largely in response to a media-generated furor against them. > In fact, the actions of the media’s state-like behavior > focus on results over accountability, on retribution over > restitution, on drama over the tedium of fact-finding, and, > most of all, on sympathy for the upwardly mobile middle and > upper classes over the (often unseen) victims of violence, > poverty, immiseration and political terror. > > > > What is manifest in this process is elite power; the > media in India is only nominally public. A majority of the > population may watch television, but it is the elite who own > the space and dictate the terms of its discourse. The news > routines do not even pretend to be egalitarian. In the > recent attacks hardly any attention was paid to the railway > station where sixty people were killed. TV crews stayed > focused on the luxury hotels, where “People Like Us” > were affected. > > > > In responses to terrorism state power is exercised in > secrecy, while elite power becomes bolder and claims for > itself the mantle of the public as a whole. Politicians are > vilified as a group and their judgment is scorned, as media > celebrities offer their wisdom on national security. > Meanwhile, there is little sign of responses being planned > or conducted by the state; torture and encounter killings do > not make the news, and counter-insurgency operations occur > off-camera and through third-party and non-verifiable > sources. > > > > A Possible Politics > > > > The globalization of media has led to an increased > overlapping of news angles by Indian and western news > markets, and the recent attacks reflect this, as the elites > in Mumbai ask where their Rudy Giuliani is to spearhead > their charge after the attacks, assuming that they too must > respond “like America.” We have also witnessed the > remarkable attempt by some American commentators to locate > the cause of violence in a civilizational clash between > Hindus and Muslims, akin to the alleged clash between Islam > and Christendom. In this improbable interpretation, pagan > Hindus are on the side of Christendom against Islam, > although the latter two faiths profess a religion of the > book, while Hinduism is polytheistic and fissiparous. As a > waning superpower struggles for political leverage in a > multipolar world, it is not surprising to see a search for > the means of making foreign conflicts tractable to the > existing geopolitical vision of the United States. > > > > If we are to take democracy seriously, however, the > question is not only what identities people respond to, but > what we wish them to become. The problem, in other words, is > not only an anthropological one, of classifying the > different peoples of the world, but also a political one, of > indicating what kind of world we would like them to belong > to. Democratization everywhere effects a transformation in > identities; people have a right not only to improve their > lives, but to choose the terms in which they express them. > Against the democratization of terror we must assert a > politics of humanity, although the terms in which to do so > are hardly transparent. We grant humanity to those made > visible to the law, but new technologies of publicity > disclose the presence of those denied legality, albeit > through criminal acts. If outlaws once laid the basis for > law, today the challenge before the law is to respond not > only to the terrorist, but as well to the migrant, > > the slum-dweller, the uprooted peasant and other > victims of industrial development, and the religious and > ethnic minority. The growing separation between politics and > publicity, between those who are visible and subject to the > law and those who are invisible or who force themselves into > visibility, requires us to constantly reconsider who has a > right to politics and who is to be denied it, and on what > grounds. > > > > > > This entry was posted on Monday, December 15th, 2008 > at 11:40 am and is filed under Mumbai 11/26. You can follow > any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You > can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is > currently not allowed. > > > > 4 Responses to “Violence, publicity, and > sovereignty” > > > > Nandan Maluste: > > December 16th, 2008 at 1:32 am > > > > Excellent insightful piece. Would be enhanced by > notice of: > > 1.The Sachar Committee which reported that the mass of > Muslims in India have been socially, educationally and > economically excluded. > > 2.Naxalism which exists in a third of India’s 600+ > districts and dominant in over 70. It could be regarded as a > violent product of the alienation experienced by the rural > poor who are rarely high caste Hindus. > > 3. Six decade old border disputes between India and > Pakistan. These have spawned three open wars and many covert > ones. > > 4. The absurd focus of Indian security forces: the > Special Protection Group (guarding Sonia Gandhi and some > five immediate relatives plus the Prime Minister) is > reported by the Times of India to have a budget exceeding > that of the National Security Guard which should protect the > other billion people in India (including, presumably, > ministers with special protection). Further, the NSG is > located solely in Delhi! > > 5. The opportunities to correct the above. These are > presented by rapid economic growth, embrace of education by > Muslims and generally by all Indians, Indo-Pak efforts at > reconciliation brokered by the Bush administration, Right to > Information Act, the new activism of the middle class, etc. > > > > Somita Sen: > > > > December 16th, 2008 at 6:36 am > > > > An excellent piece—the final formulation—the > separation of politics from publicity is a very interesting > one indeed that I will need to think about some more. You > trouble here the easy assumption that a quest for publicity > is a form of politics. > > As far as I can remember, ever since the Jessica Lal > murder case and the galvanizing role played by media in it, > private 24 hours news media seems to have emerged, as you > astutely note, as a police force. The emphasis on force. > Very intriguing suggestion that the media is behaving here > like the state insofar as it is attempting to institute the > rule of law. So all exposes are always about a corrupt, > incompetent government on the one hand and the frustrated > but empowered citizen on the other ready to go to battle > against this corrupt government. All Indian media strikes me > as being like a Michael Moore movie—bristling with the > need for answers, justice and so on and hoping to achieve > this by sticking a mike in front of some pol’s face. To > take a more Indian example, it is as if all our trusty > reporters are like that 1980s TV character > “Rajani”—who rushed headlong where angels feared to > tread! > > I am also struck by how little information the news > channels provide, how stripped down their programing is. The > same screaming reporters, the smooth anchor, the desi-techno > theme music and digital effects mad screen design. Repeated > over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing is ever fleshed out. > It would seem as though these outfits have like zero > research departments. Hardly any experts. Just LIVENESS. And > all the legitimacy seems to flow from the brute fact of this > LIVENESS. We are there in real time. So it must be real. > > It was very interesting to see as the attacks unfolded > how the complete absence of “facts,” was made up for the > relentless presence of affect. I wonder how the evident > passion of the journalist—that frantic > emphasis—ultimately generates, again, the legitimacy of > the call for justice. To what extent does the promise of > media affect attract those invisible, forsaken subjects? > > States are such affectless creatures. At least the > Indian state has been pretty phlegmatic in its media > presentations. But this media as state sure knows how to > feel. > > > > Ambi Parameswaran: > > December 17th, 2008 at 11:44 pm > > > > A very eloquent piece. Disturbing reading. > > I think you may be on to something big, especially > about news television and its many headed Hydraness. The > issue with television news is the lack of a control on them; > unlike press which has a Press Council which is a self > regulatory organization, TV roams free creating its own > forms of panic. > > People in the know feel that Mumbai authorities should > have controlled the media a lot better, but that said, media > too seemed to have behaved quite irresponsibly, often > provoking panelist to mouth pseudo-jingoistic thrash. > > Over the last few months India has been seeing its > homegrown terrorists causing their own breed of mayhem. The > IM, Indian Mujahideen, have become a scary part of the > scene. At least this attack was master minded by overseas > forces. > > Your point about muslims getting more and more > ostracized is well taken. This time around, we could see > muslim groups openly demonstrating against the terrorists. > Hopefully the Indian Muslims are doing their bit to avoid > being painted with the same brush. That danger still > remains. > > > > Azhar Aslam: > > December 25th, 2008 at 11:28 am > > > > This is a very frank, insightful and honest opinion. I > am saddened that pieces like this are not circulating widely > among subcontinental internet sites and media. It puts the > picture in perspective and takes the sting out of jingoistic > anti-Pakistani stance of Indian media and politicians. > > It is also disturbing that Indian government has tried > its fullest to take ”advantage” of human misery in its > own country and of its own people and made this a > “Pakistan-centric” event. When it should have been > paying attention to healing its own wounds, India has seen > it as an opportunity to salt these wounds and create fresh > ones. > > As far as certain parts of Indian > media/intellectuals/politicians triumvirate, who want India > to respond in an American manner, they need to consider the > following: > > A. Is this the way India is going to declare to the > world that it has turned into a regional or world super > power? what is this complex about being “Like America”? > > B. India it seems is following in USSR tradition and > trying to create an aura of invincibility for its own ego > satisfaction without considering the hundreds of millions of > its citizens who are hungry,poor and destitute. This is no > more than a sign of serious inferiority complex and > insecurity of its own identity. > > C. What has the world turned into after the American > response? Its not as if the world has become a safer or > better place that this response should be imitated. > > D. The signs of being super in power are maturity and > sagacity. It is to reach out and stand against terrorism of > any kind and take smaller countries in the region with her. > It is to lead. But has India done any of it? No sir. So > forget about being super in power. Just set your house in > order. > > Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor > Dept.of Archaeology Tel: +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 > Jahangirnagar University Mobile: +88 0172 019 61 76 > Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh Fax: +88 02 779 10 52 > swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 23:56:10 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:26:10 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <32144e990901100712s6527a9c7q6427cdcc3504d88f@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990901100712s6527a9c7q6427cdcc3504d88f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901101026q7bf0d48ar4b45c9b8af35cdd7@mail.gmail.com> It depends on the rhetoric. more than what causes natural events, what thinking or spirit causes natural events, it is what well-deliberated 'terrible' events achieve for the party that is clearly the dominant one. so, one can say that there was too much xyz, that is why the 'terrible' event (lightening falling) happened, which i may attribute to myself, nature, god, or the evilness of my fictional or supposed rival such as the taliban, hamas, hezbollah, who it suits me to destroy any way, the justification for which i already have: the purported undefined existence of evil - terror ! obviously a war can be fought with lightning but lightening can't be fought with war. best On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > Dear Taha, > > Before we start running around like a dog chasing it's tail, let's > segregate > two different aspects of a 'terrifying' event. To keep things in scope, > let's take something simple like a lightning strike. > > If I was struck by lightning (or it came close to me), would certainly be > terrified - or perhaps dead. > > However, to identify the event / person / group behind the act that scared > me as a 'terrorist' would first have to be able to define it / them as > thinking individuals who planned the event. > > This you too have included in the definitions that you included. > > Taking that into consideration, whom are you pointing at as the thinking > party that caused the flood ? > > Rgds, Partha > ........................ > > > On 10/01/2009, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > > > Dear Kshmendra, Dear Rakesh, > > > > Thank you for your posts. > > > > We seem to be moving in the range of ad hominem arguments and I have no > > desire to be dragged into that. > > > > So for the sake of reinstatement of my views kindly allow me to present > my > > thoughts again. > > > > 1. Events related to loss of human life, property, and livelihood are > > happening in our country. > > 2. These events are framed and articulated by our media. > > 3. Media frames some of these events as 'Terror' and 'Terrorism' others > are > > not given this tag. > > > > when I say -Terror- I refer to the following interpretation- > > > > c.1375 "great fear," from O.Fr. terreur (14c.), from L. terrorem (nom. > > terror) "great fear, dread," from terrere "fill with fear, frighten," > from > > PIE base *tre- "shake" (see > > terrible). > > Meaning "quality of causing dread" is attested from 1528; terror > > bombingfirst recorded 1941, with ref. to German air attack on > > Rotterdam. Sense of > > "a person fancied as a source of terror" (often with deliberate > > exaggeration, as of a naughty child) is recorded from 1883. The Reign of > > Terror in Fr. history (March 1793-July 1794) so called in Eng. from 1801. > > O.E. words for "terror" included broga and egesa. > > > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none > > > > and by Terrorism my interpretation is informed by the reading below- > > terrorism [image: > > Look > > up terrorism at > > Dictionary.com]1795, > > in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror > in > > France" (1793-July 1794), from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see > > terror ). > > > > "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis > in > > a > > time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror > > would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent." > > [Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794] > > > > General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded > > in > > Eng. 1798. Terrorize "coerce or deter by terror" first recorded 1823. > > Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947, especially in reference to > > Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine -- earlier it was used of > > extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the > French > > Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste. The tendency of one party's > > terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter was noted in ref. > to > > the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973). The > > word > > terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively, to the Maquis > > resistance > > in occupied France in World War II (e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, > > 1979). > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none > > > > 4. I was curious that why does one type of event is constructed as > > -Terrorism- or -Terror- while the other not? > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 00:08:32 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:38:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <414578.54090.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu Dear Rakesh Thanks for ur post...especially in the context where I have been the object of extremely vulgar remarks on the same issue by another member of the reader list. I am also shocked for the utter silences of the members of this virtual 'community' First thing- I would like to request you to follow the link to get to the blog where the write up was posted. There is space there for the responses. You may post ur observations there. Because I am not the writer of the piece I had sent. U should recognize that. If I want to comment on your observations, then I must tell u that u and me are inhabiting different conceptual universe. Both of us, I guess, belong to Hindu families, although I am an agonist. But u belong to a 'majority' and I am to a 'minority'. I am completely aware of construction of minority as a category and their response. Additionally, we also shouldn't forget that India and Bangladesh are two different nation-state with different historicity of subjugation and repression of minority. I think the central emphasis of blog that we are discussing about is on locating the entire issue of Mumbai attack from a different perspective. The blog, as I have understood it, is not about supporting Pakistan. Nor it was about supporting terrorizing acts perpetrated by 'non-state' actors/states as actors. The analyses is about the invisible and multiple causalities which condition the actions which are identified by dominant ideals as 'terrorism' or as 'as to protect sovereignty'. As a student of social science, I am aware of the ambivalences in the notion of 'terrorism' and violence. The post is also about looking at the violence and subjectivity from a perspective which is different than the dominant 'patriotic' Indo-centric views. I would ask u to go through some write-ups by Veena Das to understand the multifaceted denotation and connotation of violence as a liberal and modern idea and practice. As a Bangladeshi, I was also subject for three days to the media spectacle on the attack on Mumbai. You must know that we in Bangladesh are obliged to be the subject of Hindi centric media of India, but u are not a subject of the media from Bangladesh. [I am just pointing at one aspect of the inequalities between U (an Indian) and I (a Bangladeshi)] The dominant representations in the media, I want to argue as a consumer, prohibited any 'different' versions of the story. That was a terrorized experience of me. I couldn't think of anything except the things media was showing and telling us to think. Again, any body with a critical understanding of the media industry and its hegemony can understand and evaluate the terror state I am talking about. I sent the piece to reader list because I found it interesting and intellectually stimulating. U may differ with me. But that doesn't give u any right to write derogatory remarks like someone did. We may talk about why I found the piece the way I pointed at. But I can't talk about why the write of the blog have written the way he did. If you want to proceed, u are most welcome. With best regards, Swadhin --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty > To: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 9:31 PM > Sir > > I am Rakesh Iyer, a student in 3rd year, doing B.Tech > (Metallurgical & > Materials Engg.) in IIT-Madras. Recently, we had a pan-IIT > conference last > month, where Stephen Cohen, a defence expert of US on > Indo-Pak issues was > also invited. He had made a suggestion of going to war with > Pakistan after > the Mumbai attacks, and after reading your article, I > thought I should ask > you and get your comments on certain points. I hope you > would be kind enough > to respond to them. They are as follows: > > 1) As you have mentioned, the people who attacked the > different places in > Mumbai were shown vids of Gujarat riots. We all can agree > to the fact that > riots are wrong, and infact the Gujarat riots were actually > a pogrom or > state-sponsored genocide. Inspite of that, doesn't that > point out to the > fact that either the ISI, or at least some jihadi > organizations in Pakistan > are using certain events in India to achieve their own > ends? And if so, why > should we only blame India for it? Isn't Pakistan also > responsible for not > ensuring that it's citizens are not incited in the name > of violence (India > is definitely responsible for not ensuring it.)? And so, > why shouldn't > Pakistan take the blame of these attacks? > > Who gave them the right to fight for Indian Muslims? I > agree that Indian > Muslims have faced persecution, but then they didn't go > to Pakistan seeking > help from them. They have decided by and large to fight it > either through > the judiciary, or unfortunately became resigned to their > fate. So, why do > jihadis have to help them? And if the jihadis are being > taught malicious > propaganda in the name of protecting Indian Muslims (48 > Muslims were killed > in the Mumbai attacks), then doesn't Pakistan share the > blame for this? > > 2) You have always mentioned the sense of alienation within > Muslims. First > of all, I believe that this sense is only among a few. > Among the majority of > the Muslims, this sense has not penetrated, although they > do realize the > secretarian and communal nature of right-wing parties like > the BJP and > organizations associated with them like the VHP and the > RSS. But a sense of > alienation is very different from saying that they > don't vote for the BJP. > > Having said that, there is a section of them who are > alienated. But can you > tell me the steps to stop this? 1992 was almost 16-17 years > back, and still > you say people feel alienated because of that. Strange. I > can understand if > somebody takes up arms because his/her relative were > killed. But what I > can't understand is when somebody decides to fight for > his/her religion, > because of the so-called atrocities being committed upon > them. Even if there > was a Gujarat in 2002, the Muslims showed the BJP the door, > particularly > influencing Uttar Pradesh elections in 2004, thereby > ensuring its defeat. > Isn't that the way which should be propagated, to > ensure such things never > happen at all. > > 3) We all agree that the cycle of violence must end. But > does that buck > always stop with Hindus. It's strange. After 2002 > Gujarat, there have been > many blasts. So for one Gujarat, it's all right for a > section of Indian > Muslims to have 20 blasts. And probably, as you suggest, > it's all right that > such things continue. Why can't this lecture also be > given to those who > carry out such blasts as well? You talk with Palestinians, > you also talk > with those Muslims who suffer. Great. Why not carry out > this exercise with > those whose relatives were killed in the blasts? That would > also be great. > > I agree sir, that Indian Muslims haven't been treated > well. And I don't > necessarily require the Sachar committee report for that. I > am a resident of > Bhopal, and have seen Muslims by and large living in > ghettos. I understand > they do sometimes feel alienated in their own country. But > does that ever > give a justification of violence? > > Liberal communities thrive only they are there across all > religions. Instead > of promoting liberalism in each religion, it seems you wish > to warn that if > there is one Gujarat, there will be 100 and more blasts > across the nation, > and so we should stop it. For me that is not the case > > Gujarat 2002 was wrong. 1992 riots were wrong. But so were > the Mumbai > blasts. And so is 2008 Mumbai attacks. Nobody can justify > such things. I can > agree that the victims of 2002 must get justice. And I also > believe those of > 2008 should also get it. That should be the strategy. > Whereas with you sir, > I am sorry to say it, but I feel that terror attacks by > terrorists are > nothing compared to those by the state, as you say the > state created them. > > I don't sympathize with either the terrorists or the > state. I sympathize > with the oppressed. And once anybody uses violence, I > can't sympathize with > him. That is not possible for me. And that is also not > possible by most of > India. So we hate Pakistan for using its organizations to > spread terror. So > we hate the mullahs of India who in their madrassas incite > people to fight > against their very own nation and own people. And we hate > those misguide > them. > > Hope I would get a reply from you on this. > > Thanking you > > Yours faithfully > Rakesh Iyer From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 00:24:39 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:54:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <856144.9554.qm@web52212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh Fascism, again - if u have already read my personal post to u- could be defined from different perspectives. But if we acknowledge an essentially universalized ideal, fascism can be termed as utter disrespect to tolerance to other views and violent actions towards 'the others'. And violence is not only corporeal. Violence or the act of violence could be manifested covertly or overtly by many other expressions (i.e. speech, gesture, writings, etc.). I wonder whether she/he would have used the same words toward an Indian. Please, note that the blogger himself is an Indian. But she/he didn't attack the blogger who is very respected among the intellectual world. I have strong doubts about the liberal notion of tolerance and free-speech. I am very fond of Talal Asad, a professor of Anthropology, and as an Asadist I may respect your liberal position; but I am also politically and intellectually critical about the position. Because, the historicity of the concept of liberalism suggest that the concept and practice of a liberal can essentially be ambivalent, self-contradictory and ahistorical. With thanks Swadhin Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] MUBAI ATTACK: Violence, publicity, and sovereignty > To: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:25 AM > Dear Sir > > I know it is vulgar, but how is it fascist is beyond my > comprehension. About > indo-centric, it may not be necessarily so. It may be that > the writer may > believe in same views as yours, but has heard it enough and > now wants > something to be done. Or may be she thinks the way you > think can't solve the > problem. > > I realize you are angry on getting this, and would > certainly not like > somebody abusing me if I were you. I think however that > judgements on one's > comments should best be left to others. And as for silence, > it is only now > that I received this mail. And I would say let them be > entitled to their > views, so let them have it. But yes, paining someone with > such things is > certainly nonsense. > > Regards > > Rakesh From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 00:46:39 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:16:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] TERRORIST ATTACK ON GAZA: Israel and Gaza: rhetoric and reality Message-ID: <7293.32726.qm@web52210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Please, follow the link below for a write-up by Avi Shlaim: http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/israel-and-gaza-rhetoric-and-reality From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 01:12:22 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:42:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] TERRORIST ATTACK ON GAZA: Gaza: the Israel-United States connection Message-ID: <854816.41615.qm@web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Please, follow the link below for information about the connection between the US and Israel in a piece by Paul Rogers: http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/gaza-the-israel-united-states-connection Our Indian friends may also rethink the connection between India and Israel in recent days. Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jan 11 02:42:35 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:12:35 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901101026q7bf0d48ar4b45c9b8af35cdd7@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990901100712s6527a9c7q6427cdcc3504d88f@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901101026q7bf0d48ar4b45c9b8af35cdd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901101312l323df8a7yb83deae39b527412@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, While mailing this post I wanted to share with you my confusions regarding the interpretation of the word terror/terrorist/terrible. For many years now we are being consciously made to believe that -terrorist- means a certain thing. So much so that if we look at the history of the word -Terrorist- there seems to be complete -U- turn. In 1947 when the word was first coined a Terrorist referred to 'the Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine' http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none. Now we are asked to believe that it is something else. By something else I mean that the word terrorist have come to signify all Muslims who are engaged in acts of violence that results in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people. These words- Terror, terrorist, terrible, contain a common interpretation that it has got to do something with the idea of fear. It was in this regard that I wanted to ask as to why were we made to believe that those who used fear as a strategy that had resulted in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people in Punjab were read as militants, those who had occasionally used fear as a strategy that had resulted in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people in Maharashtra, Orrisa are framed as activists and likewise actions of those which resulted in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people in Bihar were read as -floods-. Regarding Bihar -floods-. I do not know whether there exists sufficient evidence in the public domain with necessary arguments and empirical data to conclude that Floods in Bihar were entirely natural . There are colluding interpretations of the Bihar Floods story. If the arguments in the bbc and the time story pasted below are valid, then we may conclude that floods were to a certain extent not entirely natural.. If the floods were to a degree man-made then, why are these floods argued about in the language of a -natural disaster- or a man made disaster only Why are we not asked to thing that all those persons whose deliberate nigligence resulted in the loss of life and property of other people were terrorists? or Why is it that we are not asked think that a Malegaon blast or a 9/11 or 26/11was a man made disaster too? When these floods were caused by people who had perhaps acted with deliberate negligence and those actions resulted in the loss of in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people who were clearly afraid, why is not framed in the language of terror. There seems to be a very clear understanding in the popular media about how one event should be constructed and framed and I am not able to coherently map this understanding. Regards Taha http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1837449,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-topics India's Floods: a Manmade Disaster? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7593497.stm *Man made disaster?* Arguments have developed over whether the Bihar flooding could have been prevented. The disaster began on 18 August when the Kosi broke its eastern bank further north in Nepal, where the river is often called the Saptakoshi. The river's flow is regulated by a barrage - on the Nepalese side of the border - which was built in the late 1950s. Under a joint agreement India agreed to pay for the work and be responsible for its maintenance. Some analysts point out that the structure was built only as a short-term solution, meant to last 20 or 30 years. Others accuse the Indian government of having failed in its duty to maintain and repair the defences. If they had, they argue, the river could have been kept on course. Indian engineers say the Nepalese authorities did not give them the safe access they needed to carry out the work and that there were labour problems. Massive natural silting is also a major problem. Critics say joint efforts to control that silting were also inadequate this year. In Nepal itself, officials say hundreds of people have been hit by illnesses such as diarrhoea and pneumonia, and an estimated 50,000 are homeless. They say nearly 1,000 houses have been completely destroyed, and that power supplies and transport have been severely affected. The costs to the economy are now estimated at one billion Nepalese rupees ($14.25m). In Bangladesh, tens of thousands of villagers are reported to be cut off and there are fears that conditions will get worse. From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 03:11:12 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:41:12 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Prakash Ray & Dear Sana Rizvi, I am addressing you both together because both of you have made quite an obnoxious response (….similarity in expression could not be a mere coincidence…???...) to what I had thought was a mere plea to seek your attention on something that is, if not more by your ‘leftist’ standards but equally tragic in truly humanitarian sense, in your own backyard - almost half a million of your compatriots ( that is assuming that both of you are Indians) are living as refugees in their own country for almost two decades now. Their only fault being that they happened to be Hindus & that they symbolised Indian presence in the valley of Kashmir & it did not suit the likes of Yassin Mallik ,Sayaed Ali shah Gillani ,moon lighting Mirwaiz Moulvi Umar Farooq et al- the Kashmiri pan Islamists who wish to establish an Islamic state in Kashmir. Trust me, please, it was not the intention to agitate you. I only wanted to stir your conscience. It is sad that you choose to give a simple humanitarian issue an ideological colour. Now that you Mr.Prakash Ray , have taken it upon yourself to speak on behalf of the left parties,organisations & individuals (that is assuming that the respective ‘polit bureaus’ have permitted you to do so…???...) then will you be kind enough to explain what that ‘well articulated position’ of left parties is on the issue of pan Islamists claim on Kashmir & if the left parties at all have an affirmative position on the following: i) i) that Kashmir including the POK is an integral part of India as per the unanimous Indian Parliament resolution of as recent as nineties...???... ii) ii) that it is Pakistan that indoctrinated, trained & armed Kashmiri Islamists & inducted them to wage a war against our India…???.... iii) iii) that Yassin Mallik & his ilk who self admittedly ferried weapons & escorted mercenaries from Pakistan in to the valley & himself along with his JKLF goons indulgent in the mayhem that included ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley during 1989-90 must be tried for crimes against humanity…???... iv) iv) that the Kashmir Muslim proponents of ‘azadi- bara- e- Islam’ are no different from the followers of ‘al qaeda’ ….???.... v) v) that Pakistan based dreaded Kashmiri Muslim terror commanders like Hizbul Mujahhidin chief Sallahudin should be extradited to India to face trial…???.... ……… ………………………. …………………….. …………… Questions, there are, of course many’ but let me not burden you any more at the weekend. Thrust me, I care. Now a little story I would want you to share quietly with your comrades tomorrow when you are out in the demonstration: last year at the peak of the crisis in the middle east when Israelis had attacked Lebanon in response to the deadly rocket attacks from the Lebanon based Islamic terror group Hezbollah, there was a similar hue & cry raised by your comrades in the Parliament of India. On being told that Indian leftists were up in arms against Israel, this is what the Mayor (who himself happened to be a Communist) of the Israeli city that was worst hit by the Hezbollah rocket attacks had to say to the visiting Times Of India correspondent (was it Vikas Singh…you could check up with the TOI editorial board…) “ let the Indian leftists come under these rockets attacks & then comment”. Regards LA Ps : Let us not differentiate the ‘humanitarian sufferings’ on ideological or ethnic grounds. A ceases fire that ensures safety of both Israeli as well as Palestinian civilians is what is called for. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 01:59:16 +0530> From: pkray11 at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege> > Dear Lalit,> > No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to> demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left parties,> organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in Kashmir> and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They never> bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So, please go> ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel.> > Prakash> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 11 03:12:43 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:42:43 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Iranian Hacker's crack Mossad website Message-ID: <98eii5w29dma6sh36myapi8s.1231623764375@email.android.com> http://hackinthebox.org/url.php?url=29440 From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 03:27:43 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:57:43 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: protests against Gaza Siege In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901090952t5e51ab3bsf4d5c056c75cfe17@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901082038q37b92209ue43fd5c20982f0f4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901082340h20052d9awbef359773a3a1b0b@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901090951i41006dd8s4748370853cd0fe5@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901090952t5e51ab3bsf4d5c056c75cfe17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: But then we aren't here talking about the theory & the manifesto.It is the political expediency that is in question.The left party politics is not above board & certainly not in India. Regards LA -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:22:19 +0530> From: indersalim at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: protests against Gaza Siege> > i believe, for the benefit our own understanding, while taking about> Left , we may draw a line between party politics and the Left as> concept, and see how the later was liberating, and still is; helping> theoreticians, social scientists and humanity to grow, to look> forward, without even caring about the amount of criticism that goes> against the original manifesto. there is a hope> > there is no such hope in the Right.> > with due regards to its Hard Core Believers> > love> is> > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Pawan Durani wrote:> > Dear Javed,> >> > Instigating a riot in name of relegion is not the only was someone can be> > classified as a communal.> >> > By repeatedly speaking against right of one particular relegion is also one> > criteria for classifying someone.> >> > Speaking of violence , Communists do not need any introduction. They have> > perhaps the longest experience in that.> >> > Rgds> >> > Pawan> >> > Did you notice how the communits have double standards. How Prakash avoided> > a suitable answer to Mr lalits questions . Did it not expose the communists.> >> > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM, M Javed wrote:> >> >> Dear Pawan> >> I am not a leftist nor am I speaking for communism (which I agree is> >> dead), but if you think they are the most communal people, could you> >> tell us how many times have they instigated communal riots, how many> >> people have they killed in communal violence, through which modes have> >> they spread the communal hate in India (which all other established> >> "communal" parties have been doing so far).> >>> >> Javed> >>> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Pawan Durani > >> wrote:> >> > Prakash ,> >> >> >> > Talking about communal politics, i would classify leftist as the most> >> > communal ones. The ideology is dead and they have nowehere to go , but to> >> > make desparate attempts to prove that they exist.> >> >> >> > The double standards of left existed before partition and they continue> >> to> >> > exist even now.> >> >> >> > Pawan> >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:59 AM, prakash ray wrote:> >> >> >> >> Dear Lalit,> >> >>> >> >> No one has stopped u from protesting against Pakistan. If you wish to> >> >> demonstrate in front of the Pak Embassy, please do. Various Left> >> parties,> >> >> organisations and individuals are well aware about the situation in> >> Kashmir> >> >> and they have their well-articulated positions in this regard. They> >> never> >> >> bothered to ask you or the communal organizations you support. So,> >> please> >> >> go> >> >> ahead without waiting for them. Do what you wish or want or feel.> >> >>> >> >> Prakash> >> >> _________________________________________> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> >> >> subscribe in the subject header.> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> >> > _________________________________________> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> >> > Critiques & Collaborations> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> >> subscribe in the subject header.> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> >>> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > --> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Find a better job. We have plenty. Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 03:41:40 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:11:40 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901101312l323df8a7yb83deae39b527412@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990901100712s6527a9c7q6427cdcc3504d88f@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901101026q7bf0d48ar4b45c9b8af35cdd7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901101312l323df8a7yb83deae39b527412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Although there is always a sinister attempt to call pan Islamism inspired Kashmiri terrorists as militants ( euphamism in the valley by their over ground patrons is 'the boys') but Khalistanis were always denounced as 'Sikh terrorists'.So, no confusion on that account. It won't be amusing if tomorrow ,the 'vested interests' decide to compare at par the, discredited Satyam boss with say Osama bin Laden. Regards LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:12:35 +0000> From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: yasir.media at gmail.com> CC: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed?> > Dear all,> > While mailing this post I wanted to share with you my confusions regarding> the interpretation of the word terror/terrorist/terrible.> > For many years now we are being consciously made to believe that -terrorist-> means a certain thing. So much so that if we look at the history of the word> -Terrorist- there seems to be complete -U- turn.> > In 1947 when the word was first coined a Terrorist referred to 'the Jewish> tactics against the British in Palestine'> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none.> > Now we are asked to believe that it is something else. By something else I> mean that the word terrorist have come to signify all Muslims who are> engaged in acts of violence that results in the loss of life, property or> livelihood of other people.> > These words- Terror, terrorist, terrible, contain a common interpretation> that it has got to do something with the idea of fear.> > It was in this regard that I wanted to ask as to why were we made to believe> that those who used fear as a strategy that had resulted in the loss of> life, property or livelihood of other people in Punjab were read as> militants, those who had occasionally used fear as a strategy that had> resulted in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people in> Maharashtra, Orrisa are framed as activists and likewise actions of those> which resulted in the loss of life, property or livelihood of other people> in Bihar were read as -floods-.> > Regarding Bihar -floods-.> > I do not know whether there exists sufficient evidence in the public domain> with necessary arguments and empirical data to conclude that Floods in Bihar> were entirely natural .> > There are colluding interpretations of the Bihar Floods story. If the> arguments in the bbc and the time story pasted below are valid, then we may> conclude that floods were to a certain extent not entirely natural.. If the> floods were to a degree man-made then,> > why are these floods argued about in the language of a -natural disaster-> or a man made disaster only Why are we not asked to thing that all those> persons whose deliberate nigligence resulted in the loss of life and> property of other people were terrorists?> > or Why is it that we are not asked think that a Malegaon blast or a 9/11 or> 26/11was a man made disaster too?> > When these floods were caused by people who had perhaps acted with> deliberate negligence and those actions resulted in the loss of in the loss> of life, property or livelihood of other people who were clearly afraid, why> is not framed in the language of terror.> > There seems to be a very clear understanding in the popular media about how> one event should be constructed and framed and I am not able to coherently> map this understanding.> > Regards> > Taha> > http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1837449,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-topics> India's Floods: a Manmade Disaster?> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7593497.stm> > *Man made disaster?*> > Arguments have developed over whether the Bihar flooding could have been> prevented.> > The disaster began on 18 August when the Kosi broke its eastern bank further> north in Nepal, where the river is often called the Saptakoshi.> > The river's flow is regulated by a barrage - on the Nepalese side of the> border - which was built in the late 1950s.> > Under a joint agreement India agreed to pay for the work and be responsible> for its maintenance.> > Some analysts point out that the structure was built only as a short-term> solution, meant to last 20 or 30 years.> > Others accuse the Indian government of having failed in its duty to maintain> and repair the defences. If they had, they argue, the river could have been> kept on course.> > Indian engineers say the Nepalese authorities did not give them the safe> access they needed to carry out the work and that there were labour> problems.> > Massive natural silting is also a major problem. Critics say joint efforts> to control that silting were also inadequate this year.> > In Nepal itself, officials say hundreds of people have been hit by illnesses> such as diarrhoea and pneumonia, and an estimated 50,000 are homeless.> > They say nearly 1,000 houses have been completely destroyed, and that power> supplies and transport have been severely affected.> > The costs to the economy are now estimated at one billion Nepalese rupees> ($14.25m).> > In Bangladesh, tens of thousands of villagers are reported to be cut off and> there are fears that conditions will get worse.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 11:12:11 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:12:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: what Hamas says Message-ID: <47e122a70901102142t1a6ea632y2e7a32fff3f93443@mail.gmail.com> Hamas: We will win war in Gaza interview with Abu Marzouq: ************************************ Israel's war on Gaza has left more than 700 Palestinians dead - nearly a third of them women and children - and more than 3,000 injured. But at the organisation's headquarters in Damascus, 100km from the territory, Musa Abu Marzouq, the deputy head of Hamas' political bureau, told Al Jazeera why he believes his organisation is on the verge of victory against Israel. Al Jazeera: Under what conditions will Hamas agree a ceasefire with Israel? ****************************************************************************** Abu Marzouq: We have three conditions for any peace initiative coming from any state. First, the aggression of the Israelis should stop. All of the gates should be opened, including the gate of Rafah between the Gaza Strip and Egypt. Finally, Israel has to withdraw from the Gaza Strip. We are not saying we will stop firing rockets from the Gaza Strip to Israel - we are only talking about stopping the aggression from the Israelis against the civilian population in the Gaza Strip. When others talk about a ceasefire, they are saying all military operations should stop. But we are sending a message [by firing rockets]: "We will not surrender. We have to fight the Israelis and we will win this battle." We know we are going to lose a lot of people from our side, but we are going to win, inshallah. Members of Hamas have said that Israel is using collective punishment by targeting civilians who support Hamas. But is Hamas' targeting of Israeli civilians also not a type of collective punishment? ****************************************************************************** We are defending ourselves. When you talk about any occupation, people should resist the soldiers and the army who occupy their country. We don't have weapons sophisticated enough to launch at exact targets. We are sending a message: "You can't provide security to your side until you bring security to the Palestinian side." We are looking for freedom and for security for the Palestinian people. This is our message to Israel. They need to understand that we are working for an independent state. How do you think Israel's war on Gaza will affect Hamas' position? ****************************************************************************** The Israeli push against Hamas has increased our popularity sharply among the Palestinian people and throughout the Muslim world. After the Israelis killed Hamas leaders like Ahmed Yassin and Ismail Abu Shanab, Hamas won the elections with 76 seats out of a 132-seat parliament. Using these means doesn't decrease the popularity of Hamas, it increases it. What exactly would you consider to be "victory" for Hamas? ****************************************************************************** A victory for Hamas would mean the Israelis did not accomplish their objectives. If they can't stop rockets from coming into Israel, that means they failed. But the real reason for Israel's aggression is to change the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip - they have been thinking about this since Hamas won the elections - it is not because of the rockets. They failed to lead the people in an uprising against Hamas in the Gaza Strip with their economic embargo. They tried to push Fatah to stand and fight Hamas, but we defeated them in the Gaza Strip, so the Israelis have taken action themselves. Why, at the beginning of this conflict, did Hamas decide not to renew the six-month ceasefire? ************************************************************************************** We agreed to this ceasefire under Egyptian mediation with certain conditions. All military operations were to be stopped by June 19. All of the six gates between Israel and Gaza were to remain open. In the first 10 days of the truce, 30 per cent of the goods coming from Israel to the Gaza Strip were to be allowed in and, after that 10-day period, all supplies were to be allowed to enter. Also, there was to be a meeting between the Europeans, Egyptians, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas to discuss how to open the Rafah gate. Finally, the ceasefire was supposed to be extended to the West Bank. During those six months, the Israelis kept the border crossings closed most of the time. Only 15 per cent of goods were allowed to enter the Gaza Strip from Israel. They killed more than 40 people in the last month of the ceasefire, eight of which were in the last week. On many occasions, the Egyptians told us that the Israelis were not respecting the agreement. Their refusal to allow supplies to enter was a type of slow killing of the Palestinians. The Palestinians eventually asked: "What is the use of this ceasefire for us?" For that reason, we didn't renew that agreement. Khalid Meshaal, the leader of Hamas, in December called for a "military intifada against the Zionist enemy" and as a "peaceful intifada internally". What did he mean by an internal peaceful intifada? ****************************************************************************** I think he meant that there needs to be internal change among the Palestinians. Right now the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank controls everything. This is not acceptable. We need to peacefully change these conditions. How are relations between Hamas and Fatah now? ****************************************************************************** Now the priority for Hamas, Fatah or any Palestinian organisation is to stand against the Israeli aggression. After we finish with this battle, I guess we can talk about reconciliation or reuniting with Fatah. We openly welcome any kind of negotiation or dialogue between Fatah and Hamas to end the separation of the Palestinians. When French president Nicolas Sarkozy met with Syrian president Bahsar al-Assad, many said he tried to encourage Damascus to put pressure on Hamas to stop firing rockets. Have you faced any kind of pressure from Syria? ****************************************************************************** We haven't seen any pressure from Syria. They respect our independence. They respect our choices. They respect the policies we chose for our people. Has Hamas had any contact with the administration of Barack Obama, the US president-elect? No, we haven't had any direct contact. Do you have any expectations regarding the approach of Hillary Clinton, the US nominee-designate for the post of US secretary of state? ****************************************************************************** We cannot evaluate something that lies in the future. We know that in the US senate, Hillary Clinton's vote was always with Israel, but maybe there will be some differences when she becomes secretary of state. Courtesy: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200918155333111890.html -- From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 12:53:24 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:53:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Lalit Sir (and all) As I went through your article, I was reminded of a video I saw regarding the Kashmiri Pandit situation. This video was shot more than 10 years ago. A lot of water must have flown down in Jhelum since then. I agree with the fact that Kashmiri Pandits should not have been thrown out of their homes. And the reason they were asked to leave is primarily because, Kashmiris wanted azadi. And the violence was wrong on that count. Having said that, the root cause of the problem must also be studied. And that is where the problem starts. Unlike say Hydrebad and Junagadh, which acceded to India based on popular support, the state of Jammu & Kashmir didn't do so because they supported India, but because they had faith in Sheikh Abdullah. And since India jailed him for 22 years, Kashmiris didn't have great faith in India, because they believed that they had been cheated. Continuing with all this, we had situations in 1983 when the elected governments were overthrown with use of money power and new CM's installed as puppets. And the biggest disaster were the 1987 elections, when the NC won thanks to the most unfair election ever conducted in Kashmir. In any other part of India, it would have led to an agitation against the elected government, and the people would have demanded re-election of the state assembly, since the Indian nationalism rhetoric has seeped down among the masses, and hence we all consider ourselves as Indians(it is ironic since unlike European nations, there can't be a nation-statist definition of India). But among the Kashmiris, this is not the case, and hence considering this as another blow from India, they asked for azadi. And this has been the case since then. They asked for Pandits to leave, since they believed they started believing in Yasin Malik and their folk, that Pandits are Indian spies and should be made to leave. The conduct of Kashmiri Muslims then was not certainly one to be bravely talked about. It was very shameful and disgusting on their part. But does that mean that one wrong must be answered back with another wrong/ For the last 18-19 years, the Indian Army personnel are stationed in Kashmir. We all know the armed forces stationed in Mumbai for 3 days during Mumabi attacks. That has been the positioning of armed forces across streets in Srinagar, not for 3 days but for more than 18 years. Any person can be checked any time of the day, as if all Kashmiri Muslims are terrorists. Army personnel have committed grave human right violations, including prostitutions and fake encounters across the state. Is that what they asked for? Consider yourself. Even if you were not the supporter of azadi in the state, if your father or mother is killed, would you ever support the Indian State? I don't think so, for that is the normal tendency. The Leftists have fought for freedom and right to life of Muslims and Christians. It's time they also realize there is a right to life for Hindus as well. There is no consideration on the part of the Left for these Pandits. Having said that, there is no concern among the Army personnel for the Kashmiris who have suffered the brunt of the violence from both sides, the army as well as the terrorists. And finally, the last part. The Pandits may have been in a terribly bad situation about 10 years back, but that certainly is not the case. If I am not wrong, a tribunal was introduced to solve cases of land grabbing where the land of those displaced, was grabbed by locals. People were sentenced to punishments and jails. What's more, as one of my friends himself got to know from some others who belonged to Kashmir, Pandits have given their land for rent (they have houses there), or sold it, so that they don't have anything to do with it later. The last straw was when Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister himself inaugurated the buildings for Pandits to come back. Credit must be given to Mufti Mohammed Sayeed's healing touch and his promise that he will try to get the Pandits back. The Kashmiri Muslims themselves hoped that Pandits would come back. But the Pandits didn't come, for they didn't believe the Kashmiri Muslims any longer. Since there is a trust deficit now, and it seems the Pandits would never return, I would like to ask all of you, including Lalit Sir you as well, whether a) Has any study been made to know today's conditions of the Pandits? If for reservation, we can't rely on the 1931 census to decide the quota of percentage to be reserved for OBC's, then why should we rely on the situation of Pandits 10 or 15 years back? b) Whether there is any chance of the Pandits coming back or not? If yes, why? If no, why? And if the reasons are economic and trust based, then can we really get back the Pandits to Kashmir? Is it really necessary then? These are some of the questions which need to be asked. I again repeat one thing. The displacement of Pandits in the manner it was done is wrong, was wrong and will always be wrong. But similarly, the human right violations by the Indian army and the local police will also be wrong. And two wrongs never make a right. But of course, for the hard core BJP and the left supporters, they do make a right. The proof is Singur and Gujarat. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 13:06:48 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:06:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all Another thing I would like to add. I missed that out. The above stories, of Israel and the Hamas, of Kashmiri Pandits and the others, of India and Pakistan, just point out to one big flaw in our whole game of politics, not only going across India, but infact across the world. It's the game of real politik. This is the world of sum-zero game, where to achieve power, almost anything can be done. So, if the BJP wants to gain power in Gujarat in 2002, where it has been losing panchayat elections, using Godhra for creating a genocide and supporting it directly or indirectly, allowing rapes and murders is ok. So, if Israel wants to become powerful in the region, as it believes that power makes it safe, (since the Nazi days, Jews of Israel have always believed in this), bombing Gaza and killing millions with bombs and armed forces is ok. So, for Hamas, to establish the rule of Allah (I hope Allah himself/herself answers one day through his voice, whether this is the way he wants his rule to be established), any rockets being pounded upon Israel is ok. So, for Pakistan, to become powerful in the region, allowing a breed of terrorism to develop, attacking India through its' proxies, blackmailing America for support in return for carrying out operations in Waziristan and elsewhere, and even betraying its' own citizens, is ok. So, for India, to allow human right violations to continue in order to appease it's armed forces, to allow rapes and murders in the name of riots, is ok. So, for the Congress and the like, to play with the insecurity of the Muslims to get their votes, while actually doing nothing for their betterment is ok. This is what we have reached to. It's shameful that we call Gandhi the Father of the Nation. Gandhi never advocated real politik, where if one side loses, the other side wins. If for him there was some side to lose, it was the immoral side of politics. He always believed politics should be moral. And we have failed him. We failed him since the pre-Partition riots, and we continue to this date. I don't know how we can solve all these problems. And I don't understand the purpose of calling Gandhi as the Father of the Nation, if the Nation can't learn a single thing from him. We haven't learnt his values of tolerance, we haven't learnt the value of acceptance of diversities, we haven't learnt the importance of discussions he portrayed, then what we have learnt from him?? Today all these problems have arisen, because there is no regard of the 'other'. The BJP doesn't have any regard for Muslims, and vice versa. The Israel state and the Hamas don't have any regard for each other. Marathis and Biharis have no regard for each other. I can understand India, the way it was created, was destined to be anarchic. But was it deemed to be practicing violence all the time, without having any consideration of the 'other'?? Regards Rakesh From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 15:12:32 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:12:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: open letter to Obama Message-ID: <47e122a70901110142x35cf2ef1s3a6cf09e058d25f6@mail.gmail.com> Open Letter to Barack Hussein Obama, President-elect of the United States of America by Dr. Mahathir Mohamad and Former Prime Minister of Malaysia January 10, 2009 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11584 Dear Mr. President, I did not vote for you in the Presidential Election because I am Malaysian. But I consider myself one of your constituents because what you do or say will affect me and my country as well. I welcome your promise for change. Certainly your country, the United States of America needs a lot of changes. That is because America and Americans have become the most hated people in the world. Even Europeans dislike your arrogance. Yet you were once admired and liked because you freed a lot of countries from conquest and subjugation. It is the custom on New Year's day for people to make resolutions. You must have listed your good resolutions already. But may I politely suggest that you also resolve to do the following in pursuit of Change. 1) Stop killing people. The United States is too fond of killing people in order to achieve its objectives. You call it war, but today's wars are not about professional soldiers fighting and killing each other. It is about killing people, ordinary innocent people by the hundreds of thousands. Whole countries will be devastated. War is primitive, the cavemen's way of dealing with a problem. Stop your arms build up and your planning for future wars. 2) Stop indiscriminate support of Israeli killers with your money and your weapons. The planes and the bombs killing the people of Gaza are from you. 3) Stop applying sanctions against countries which cannot do the same against you. In Iraq your sanctions killed 500,000 children through depriving them of medicine and food. Others were born deformed. What have you achieved with this cruelty? Nothing except the hatred of the victims and right-thinking people. 4) Stop your scientists and researchers from inventing new and more diabolical weapons to kill more people more efficiently. 5) Stop your arms manufacturers from producing them. Stop your sales of arms to the world. It is blood money that you earn. It is un-Christian. 6) Stop trying to democratize all the countries of the world. Democracy may work for the United States but it does not always work for other countries. Don't kill people because they are not democratic. Your crusade to democratize countries has killed more people than the authoritarian Governments which you overthrew. And you have not succeeded anyway. 7) Stop the casinos which you call financial institutions. Stop hedge funds, derivatives and currency trading. Stop banks from lending non-existent money by the billions. Regulate and supervise your banks. Jail the miscreants who made profits from abusing the system. 8) Sign the Kyoto Protocol and other international agreements. 9) Show respect for the United Nations. I have many other resolutions for change which I think you should consider and undertake. But I think you have enough on your plate for this 2009th year of the Christian Era. If you can do only a few of what I suggest, you will be remembered by the world as a great leader. Then the United States will again be the most admired nation. Your embassies will be able to take down the high fences and razor-wire coils that surround them. May I wish you a Happy New Year and a great Presidency. Yours Sincerely, Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad (Former Prime Minister of Malaysia) Mahathir Mohamad is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research Articles by Mahathir Mohamad From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 18:17:46 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 04:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <933787.18066.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   Maybe you should not put forward a poser if you expect only "Wow! Taha"; "Brilliant! Taha".   Do not start or enter an argument if you do not have the capacity to hear dissent or do not have the tolerance for being questioned. Swadhin Sen elsewhere equated such an attitude to 'fascism'.   Repeating yourself will not make any less ridiculous your original 'wondering' why Media does not call "Flood Deaths" as "Terror".   You have obdurately refused to think over the responses that would help you sort out your 'confusions'. You have asked questions but refused to answer questions asked of you. The answers to such questions might have de-terrorised your mind from your confusions.   An act of "Terror" needs  initiator(s)/executor(s) for that act with the end-purpose being to "Terrify". As Partha pointed out to you, your own quoted etymological reference gives that understanding.   Even if you dismiss any single one of the 'Flood Deaths' as being due to Nature/GOD, you would have to prove with evidence that the causing of the Flood was intentional and the motive was to 'terrify'. Only then would the Flood be an "act of Terror". Think over that.   Floods being caused by human ineptitude or by inconsiderations fuelled by greed are NOT 'acts of Terror' even if one of the consequences of such acts is 'Floods that Terrify'.   Connectedly, though not very pertinent, very many times Etymology can be nothing but academia and the flogging of a dead animal when current usage has picked up newer definitions to the meaning. At times starkly different meanings and some even the opposite of the original.  Excellent examples of that are the word groups called 'Autoantonyms' or "Janus Words".   It would be reasonable to expect the Media, who you complained about, to use meanings that are common currency.    You confusions are aggravated by your trying to find a commoin recipe for cooking up the meanings of the words "Terror", "Terrorist" and "Terrorism".   I suggest to you to first fixate yourself on understanding "Terrorism" as an ideology as followed today and not through some 1794 Robespierre lecturing or the history of usage of the word 'terrorism'. Two excellent translations are the Hindi-Aatankvaad and the Urdu-Dehshatgardi. The contextual meanings for "Terror" and "Terrorist" will then be simpler to derive.   The (extracted by you too) much quoted "one party's terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter" is from positions held on the basis of subjective evaluations. That is a different topic altogether with each pertinent situation having it's own unique history and characteristics.   Much before any such subjective judgments, there is the defining of what constitutes an act of 'terror'. To put the tail into the snout that led it at first, the referred to "Flood Deaths" are not due to 'acts of Terror'.   Here are some random thoughts:   - A school teacher might 'terrorise' his/her students but would not be called a 'terrorist' or accused of 'terrorism'   - A pedestrian might feel 'terror' or be 'terrified'  by an oncoming speeding vehicle that is likely to hit him, but the driver would not be called a 'terrorist' or the rash driving be called 'an act of terror'     Kshmendra   PS. It would have a context of it's own, but I found extremely interesting the 1794 Robespierre quotation: "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis in a time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent."   --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 6:12 PM Dear Kshmendra, Dear Rakesh, Thank you for your posts. We seem to be moving in the range of ad hominem arguments and I have no desire to be dragged into that. So for the sake of reinstatement of my views kindly allow me to present my thoughts again. 1. Events related to loss of human life, property, and livelihood are happening in our country. 2. These events are framed and articulated by our media. 3. Media frames some of these events as 'Terror' and 'Terrorism' others are not given this tag. when I say -Terror- I refer to the following interpretation- c.1375 "great fear," from O.Fr. terreur (14c.), from L. terrorem (nom. terror) "great fear, dread," from terrere "fill with fear, frighten," from PIE base *tre- "shake" (see terrible). Meaning "quality of causing dread" is attested from 1528; terror bombing first recorded 1941, with ref. to German air attack on Rotterdam. Sense of "a person fancied as a source of terror" (often with deliberate exaggeration, as of a naughty child) is recorded from 1883. The Reign of Terror in Fr. history (March 1793-July 1794) so called in Eng. from 1801. O.E. words for "terror" included broga and egesa. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none and  by Terrorism my interpretation is informed by the reading below- terrorism 1795, in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror in France" (1793-July 1794), from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see terror). "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis in a time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent." [Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794] General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded in Eng. 1798. Terrorize "coerce or deter by terror" first recorded 1823. Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947, especially in reference to Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine -- earlier it was used of extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the French Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste. The tendency of one party's terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter was noted in ref. to the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973). The word terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively, to the Maquis resistance in occupied France in World War II (e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, 1979).http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none 4. I was curious that why does one type of event is constructed as -Terrorism- or -Terror- while the other not? Warm regards Taha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 18:56:29 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:26:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <890026.108.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   Please accept my admiration for your independence of thought and non-subscription to pre-concieved notions or positions.    I say this after reading your contributions to the threads  "Are Tougher Laws The Answer?"; "Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed?" ; and "protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance  ".   At times perphaps you will receive responses which would suggest that the person has not bothered to read your post fully and has pre-judged you.   At times you will receive responses where the person seems to be desperate to place you into an ideological compartment where you yourself have never belonged.   Please do not feel frustrated by such responses. It is their idiocy, not yours.   Best regards   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance To: "Lalit Ambardar" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" , pkray11 at gmail.com Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 1:06 PM Dear all Another thing I would like to add. I missed that out. The above stories, of Israel and the Hamas, of Kashmiri Pandits and the others, of India and Pakistan, just point out to one big flaw in our whole game of politics, not only going across India, but infact across the world. It's the game of real politik. This is the world of sum-zero game, where to achieve power, almost anything can be done. So, if the BJP wants to gain power in Gujarat in 2002, where it has been losing panchayat elections, using Godhra for creating a genocide and supporting it directly or indirectly, allowing rapes and murders is ok. So, if Israel wants to become powerful in the region, as it believes that power makes it safe, (since the Nazi days, Jews of Israel have always believed in this), bombing Gaza and killing millions with bombs and armed forces is ok. So, for Hamas, to establish the rule of Allah (I hope Allah himself/herself answers one day through his voice, whether this is the way he wants his rule to be established), any rockets being pounded upon Israel is ok. So, for Pakistan, to become powerful in the region, allowing a breed of terrorism to develop, attacking India through its' proxies, blackmailing America for support in return for carrying out operations in Waziristan and elsewhere, and even betraying its' own citizens, is ok. So, for India, to allow human right violations to continue in order to appease it's armed forces, to allow rapes and murders in the name of riots, is ok. So, for the Congress and the like, to play with the insecurity of the Muslims to get their votes, while actually doing nothing for their betterment is ok. This is what we have reached to. It's shameful that we call Gandhi the Father of the Nation. Gandhi never advocated real politik, where if one side loses, the other side wins. If for him there was some side to lose, it was the immoral side of politics. He always believed politics should be moral. And we have failed him. We failed him since the pre-Partition riots, and we continue to this date. I don't know how we can solve all these problems. And I don't understand the purpose of calling Gandhi as the Father of the Nation, if the Nation can't learn a single thing from him. We haven't learnt his values of tolerance, we haven't learnt the value of acceptance of diversities, we haven't learnt the importance of discussions he portrayed, then what we have learnt from him?? Today all these problems have arisen, because there is no regard of the 'other'. The BJP doesn't have any regard for Muslims, and vice versa. The Israel state and the Hamas don't have any regard for each other. Marathis and Biharis have no regard for each other. I can understand India, the way it was created, was destined to be anarchic. But was it deemed to be practicing violence all the time, without having any consideration of the 'other'?? Regards Rakesh _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 19:42:41 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:42:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: Israeli call for sanctions against Israel Message-ID: <47e122a70901110612q189f6760kebe0d05923ac44fc@mail.gmail.com> A Call from Within - signed by Israeli citizens Thursday, 08 January 2009 19:10 Last Updated on Thursday, 08 January 2009 19:15 Written by 540 Israeli citizens In support of the Palestinian Human Rights Community Call for International Action As if the occupation was not enough, the brutal ongoing repression of the Palestinian population, the construction of settlements and the siege of Gaza - now comes the bombardment of the civilian population: men, women, old folks and children. Hundreds of dead, hundreds of injured, overwhelmed hospitals, and the central medicine depot of Gaza bombed. The ship Dignity of the Free Gaza movement which brought emergency medical supplies and a number of physicians was also attacked. Israel has returned to openly committing war crimes, worse than what we have seen in a long time. Israeli media do not expose their viewers to the horrors and to the voices of severe criticism of these crimes. The story told is uniform. Israeli dissidents are denounced as traitors. Public opinion including that of the Zionist left supports the Israeli policy uncritically and without reservation. Israel's destructive criminal policy will not cease without a massive intervention by the international community. However, except for some rather weak official condemnation, the international community is reluctant to intervene,. The United States openly supports the Israeli violence and Europe, although voicing some condemnation, is unwilling to seriously consider withdrawing the "gift" it handed Israel by upgrading its relations with the European Union. In the past the world knew how to fight criminal policies. The boycott on South Africa was effective, but Israel is handled with kid gloves: its trade relations are flourishing, academic and cultural cooperation continue and intensify with diplomatic support. This international backing must stop. That is the only way to stop the insatiable Israeli violence. We are calling on the world to stop Israeli violence and not allow the continuation of the brutal occupation. We call on the world to Condemn and not become an accomplice in Israel's crimes. In light of the above, we call on the world to implement the call by Palestinian human rights organizations which urges: • "The UN Security Council to call an emergency session and adopt concrete measures, including the imposition of sanctions, in order to ensure Israel's fulfillment of its obligations under international humanitarian law. • The High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions to fulfil their obligation under common Article 1 to ensure respect for the provisions of the Conventions, taking appropriate measures to compel Israel to abide by its obligations under international humanitarian law, in particular placing pivotal importance on the respect and protection of civilians from the effects of the hostilities. • The High Contracting Parties to fulfil their legal obligation under Article 146 of the Fourth Geneva Convention to prosecute those responsible for grave breaches of the Convention. • EU institutions and member states to make effective use of the European Union Guidelines on promoting compliance with international humanitarian law (2005/C 327/04) to ensure Israel complies with international humanitarian law under paragraph 16 (b), (c) and (d) of these guidelines, including the adoption of immediate restrictive measures and sanctions, as well as cessation of all upgrade dialogue with Israel. " Signed by 540 Israeli citizens (first list): Avital Aboody, Sami Abu Shehadeh, Moshe Adler, Haim Adri, Gali Agnon, Bilha Aharoni, Hagit Aharoni, Saida Ahmed, Danny Aisner, Orna Akad, Aviv Aldema, Ra'anan Alexandrowicz, Joseph Algazy, Omer Allon, Dan Almagor, Orly Almi, Tali Almi, Tamar Almog, Udi Aloni, Yuli Aloni-Primor, Colman Altman, Janina Altman, Ahmad Amara, Eitan Amiel, Nitza Aminov, Gish Amit, Yossi Amitay, Naama Arbel, Tal Arbel, Rana Asali, Maisoon Assadi, Keren Assaf, Zohar Atai, Najla Atamnah, Rutie Atsmon, Michal Aviad, Hanna Aviram, Jasmin Avissar, Amira Bahat, Noam Bahat, Daniela Bak, Abeer Baker, Saleh Bakri, Rim Banna, Oshra Bar, Yoav Barak, Daphna Baram, Michal Bareket, Hila Bargiel, Ronny Bar-Gil, Yoram Bar-Haim, Ronnie Barkan, Osnat Bar-Or, Racheli Bar-or, Yossi Bartal, Raji Bathish, Dalit Baum, Shlomit Bauman, Esther Ben Chur, Hagit Ben Yaacov, Tal Ben Zvi, Yael Ben-Zvi, Avner Ben-Amos, Ronnen Ben-Arie, Ur Ben-Ari-Tishler, Ofra Ben-Artzi, Yotam Ben-David, Smadar Ben-Natan, Shmuel Ben Yitzchak, Avi Berg, Daniel Berger, Tamar Berger, Anat Biletzki, Itai Biran, Rotem Biran, Shany Birenboim, Rozeen Bisharat, Yafit Gamilah Biso, Liran Bitton, Simone Bitton, Yahaacov Bitton, Rani Bleier, Yempa Boleslavsky, Hagit Borer, Ido Bornstein, Irith Bouman, Haim Bresheeth, Aya Breuer, Shlomit Breuer, Dror Burstein, Smadar Bustan, Shai Carmeli-Pollak, Smadar Carmon, Zohar Chamberlain-Regev, Sami Shalom Chetrit, Chassia Chomsky-Porat, Arie Chupak, Isadora Cohen, Kfir Cohen, Matan Cohen, Nahoum Cohen, Raya Cohen, Ron Cohen, Stan Cohen, Yifat Cohen, Alex Cohn, Scandar Copti, Adi Dagan, Yael Dagan, Yasmeen Daher, Silan Dallal, Tamari Dallal, Leena Dallasheh, Eyal Danon, Uri Davis, Hilla Dayan, Relli De Vries, Maoz Degani, Ruti Divon, Diana Dolev, Yfat Doron, Ettie Dotan, Keren Dotan, Ronit Dovrat, Daniel Dukarevich, Arnon Dunetz, Maya Dunietz, Udi Edelman, Shai Efrati, Neta Efrony, Rani Einav, Asa Eitan, Danae Elon, Ruth El-Raz, Noam Enbar, Amalia Escriva, Anat Even, Gilad Evron, Ovadia Ezra, Basma Fahoum, Avner Faingulernt, Ghazi-Walid Falah, Naama Farjoun, Yvonne Fattal, Dror Feiler, Pnina Feiler, Micky Fischer, Sara Fischman, Nadav Franckovich, Ofer Frant, Ilil Friedman, Maya Galai, Dafna Ganani, Gefen Ganani, Yael Gazit, Yoram Gelman, Yakov Gilad, Amit Gilboa, Michal Ginach, Rachel Giora, Michal Givoni, Ednna Glukman, Angela Godfrey-Goldstein, Bilha Golan, Neta Golan, Shayi Golan, Tsilli Goldenberg, Vardit Goldner, Tamar Goldschmidt, Lymor Goldstein, Dina Goor, Shelley Goral, Joel Gordon, Ester Gould, Inbal Gozes, Inbal Gozes-Sharvit, Erella Grassiani, Adar Grayevsky, Gill Green, David Greenberg, Ela Greenberg, Dani Grimblat, Lev Grinberg, Yosef Grodzinsky, Hilik Gurfinkel, Galia Gur-Zeev, Anat Guthmann, Amos Gvirtz, Maya Gzn-Zvi, Yoav Haas, Iman Habibi, Connie Hackbarth, Uri Hadar, Mirjam Hadar Meerschwam, Rayya Haddad, Osnat Hadid, Dalia Hager, Tami Hager, Hava Halevi, Yasmine Halevi, Jeff Halper, Yuval Halperin, Rula Hamdan-Atamneh, Rania Hamed, Rola Hamed, Anat Hammermann Schuldiner, Doron Hammermann-Schuldiner, Ben Handler, Tal Haran, Elad Harel, Nir Harel, Shuli Hartman, Lihi Hasson, Amir Havkin, Shira Havkin, Amani Hawari, Areen Hawari, Iris Hefets, Ada Heilbronn, Ayelet Heller, Sara Helman, Ben Hendler, Aref Herbawi, Tamara Herman, Avi Hershkovitz, Yael Hersonski, Galit Hess, Hannan Hever, Ala Hlehel, Gil Hochberg, Tikva Honig-Parnass, Tikva Honig-Parnass, Inbar Horesh, Veronique Inbar, Rachel Leah Jones, Noga Kadaman, Ari Kahana, Dafna Kaminer, Aya Kaniuk, Ruti Kantor, Liad Kantorowicz, Dalia Karpel, Rabia Kassim, Amira Katz, Shai Katz, Uri Katz, Giora Katzin, Dror Kaufman, Adam Keller, Yehudit Keshet, Lana Khaskia, Efraim Kidron, Alisa Klein, Sylvia Klingberg, Yana Knopova, Ofra Koffman, Yael Korin, Alina Korn, Rinat Kotler, Meira Kowalsky, Noa Kram, Miki Kratsman, Rotem Kuehnberg, Assia Ladizhinskaya, Michal Lahav, Roni Lahav, Idan Landau, Yitzhak Laor, Orna Lavi, Ruti Lavi, Shaheen Lavie-Rouse, Yigal Laviv, Tamar Lehahn, Ronen Leibman, Miki Lentin, Ronit Lentin, Yael Lerer, Chava Lerman, Noa Lerner, Yair Lev, Yudith Levin, Abigail Levine, Eyal Levinson, Dana Levy, Inbal Lily-Koliner, Moran Livnat, Omri Livne, Amir Locker-Biletzki, Yael Locker-Biletzki, Yossi Loss, Yael Lotan, Guy Lougashi, Irit Lourie, Orly Lubin, Joseph Lubovsky, Aim Deuelle Luski, Naomi Lyth, Moshe Machover, Aryeh Magal, Liz Magnes, Noa Man, Ya'acov Manor, Arabiya Mansour, Roi Maor, Adi Maoz, Eilat Maoz, Yossi Marchaim, Alon Marcus, Esti Marpet, Ruchama Marton, Nur Masalha, Anat Matar, Doron Matar, Haggai Matar, Oren Matar, Samy Matar, Rela Mazali, Naama Meishar, Rachel Meketon, Yitzhak Y. Melamed, Remy Mendelzweig, Racheli Merhav, Yael Meron, Juliano Merr-Khamis, Esti Micenmacher, Maya Michaeli, Avraham Milgrom, Jeremy Milgrom, Elisheva Milikowski, Erez Miller, Katya Miller, Limor Mintz-Manor, Ariel Mioduser, Dror Mishani, Eedo Mizrahi, Avi Mograbi, Liron Mor, Magi Mor, Susan Mordechay, Susanne Moses, Haidi Motola, Ahuva Mu'alem, Ben Tzion Munitz, Norma Musih, Dorit Naaman, Michal Naaman, Gil Naamati, Haneen Naamnih, Naama Nagar, Dorothy Naor, Regev Nathansohn, Shelly Nativ, Salman Natour, Judd Ne'eman, Dana Negev, Smadar Nehab, Shlomit Lola Nehama, Ofer Neiman, David Nir, Eyal Nir, Tali Nir, Alex Nissen, Tal Nitzan, Joshua Nouriel, Yasmine Novak, Nira Nuriely, David Ofek, Tal Omer, Adi Ophir, Anat Or, Yael Oren Kahn, Norah Orlow, Gal Oron, Akiva Orr, Dorit Ortal, Noam Paiola, Il'il Paz-el, Michal Peer, Miko Peled, Nirit Peled, Nurit Peled-elhanan, Leiser Peles, Orna Pelleg, Tamar Pelleg-Sryck, Sigal Perelman, Amit Perelson, Nadav Pertzelan, Erez Pery, Tom Pessah, Dani Peter, Shira Pinhas, Yossi Pollak, Gil Porat, Dror Post, Eyal Pundik, Yisrael Puterman, Ilya Ram, Nery Ramati, Amit Ramon, Avi Raz, Ayala Raz, Hili Razinsky, Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin, David Reeb, Hadas Refaeli, Shlomo Regev, Dimi Reider, Noa Reshef, Amit Ron, Roee Rosen, Illit Rosenblum, Maya Rosenfeld, Danny Rosin, Yehoshua Rosin, Ilana Rossoff, Ilani Rotem, Natalie Rothman, Areej Sabbagh, Ahmad Sa'di, Sidki Sadik, Walid Sadik, Hannah Safran, Hiba Salah, Sana Salame-Daqa, Galit Saporta, Sima Sason, Sagi Schaefer, Tali Schaefer, Oded Schechter, Agur Schiff, Nava Schreiber, Idit Schwartz, Michal Schwartz, Noa Schwartz, Eran Segal, Keren Segal, Irit Segoli, Irit Sela, Dan Seltzer, Yael Serry, Shaul Setter, Meir Shabat, Aharon Shabtai, Michal Shabtay, Itamar Shachar, Erella Shadmi, Ilan Shalif, Hanna Shammas, Ayala Shani, Uri Shani, Arik Shapira, Bat-Sheva Shapira, Yonatan Shapira, Omer Sharir, Yael Shavit, Noa Shay, Fadi Shbita, Adi Shechter, Oz Shelach, Adi Shelesnyak, Mati Shemoelof, Ehud Shem-Tov, Yehouda Shenhav, Nufar Shimony, Khen Shish, Hagith Shlonsky, Tom Shoval, Sivan Shtang, Tal Shuval, Ivy Sichel, Ayman Sikseck, Shelly Silver, Inbal Sinai, Eyal Sivan, Ora Slonim, Kobi Snitz, Maja Solomon, Gideon Spiro, Neta Stahl, Talila Stan, Michal Stoler, Ali Suliman, Dored Suliman, Marcelo Svirsky, Yousef Sweid, Ula Tabari, Yael Tal, Lana Tatour, Doron Tavory, Ruth Tenne, Idan Toledano, Eran Torbiner, Osnat Trabelsi, Lily Traubmann, Naama Tsal, Lea Tsemel, Ruth Tsoffar, Ehud Uziel, Ivan Vanney, Sahar Vardi, Roman Vater, Ruth Victor, Yaeli Vishnizki-Levi, Roey Vollman, Roy Wagner, Michael Warschawski, Michal Warshavsky, Ruthy Weil, Sharon Weill, Shirly Weill, Elian Weizman, Eyal Weizman, Einat Weizman Diamond, Elana Wesley, Etty Wieseltier, Yossi Wolfson, Oded Wolkstein, Ayelet Yaari, Smadar Yaaron, Roni Yaddor, Sarah Yafai, Galia Yahav, Sergio Yahni, Niza Yanay, Amnon Yaron, Tamar Yaron, Mahmoud Yazbak, Oren Yiftachel, Sarit Yitzhak, Sharon Zack, Uri Zackhem, Jamal Zahalka, Sawsan Zaher, Adva Zakai, Edna Zaretsky, Beate Zilversmidt, Amal Zoabi, Haneen Zoubi, Himmat Zu'bi, Mati Zuckerman Contact: gazabfw at gmail.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it Palestine's Guernica and the Myths of Israeli Victimhood by Mustafa Barghouthi This is a guest post written by Mustafa Barghouthi, Secretary General of the Palestinian National Initiative. Barghouti is a former secular candidate for President of Palestine and has been a strong advocate of non-violent responses to Israeli occupation. Barghouti is thought by many to be a leading contender in the next Palestinian presidential election. Perspectives have also been solicited from various national leaders and incumbent Knesset leaders in Israel. Here is a link to an interview that Steve Clemons did with Barghouti in July 2008 regarding Barack Obama's trip to Israel and Palestine. Palestine's Guernica and the Myths of Israeli Victimhood The Israeli campaign of 'death from above' began around 11 am, on Saturday morning, the 27th of December, and stretched straight through the night into this morning. The massacre continues Sunday as I write these words. The bloodiest single day in Palestine since the War of 1967 is far from over following on Israel's promised that this is 'only the beginning' of their campaign of state terror. At least 290 people have been murdered thus far, but the body count continues to rise at a dramatic pace as more mutilated bodies are pulled from the rubble, previous victims succumb to their wounds and new casualties are created by the minute. What has and is occurring is nothing short of a war crime, yet the Israeli public relations machine is in full-swing, churning out lies by the minute. Once and for all it is time to expose the myths that they have created. 1. Israelis have claimed to have ended the occupation of the Gaza Strip in 2005. While Israel has indeed removed the settlements from the tiny coastal Strip, they have in no way ended the occupation. They remained in control of the borders, the airspace and the waterways of Gaza, and have carried out frequent raids and targeted assassinations since the disengagement. Furthermore, since 2006 Israel has imposed a comprehensive siege on the Strip. For over two years, Gazans have lived on the edge of starvation and without the most basic necessities of human life, such as cooking or heating oil and basic medications. This siege has already caused a humanitarian catastrophe which has only been exacerbated by the dramatic increase in Israeli military aggression. 2. Israel claims that Hamas violated the cease-fire and pulled out of it unilaterally. Hamas indeed respected their side of the ceasefire, except on those occasions early on when Israel carried out major offensives in the West Bank. In the last two months, the ceasefire broke down with Israelis killing several Palestinians and resulting in the response of Hamas. In other words, Hamas has not carried out an unprovoked attack throughout the period of the cease-fire. Israel, however, did not live up to any of its obligations of ending the siege and allowing vital humanitarian aid to resume in Gaza. Rather than the average of 450 trucks per day being allowed across the border, on the best days, only eighty have been allowed in - with the border remaining hermetically sealed 70% of the time. Throughout the supposed 'cease-fire' Gazans have been forced to live like animals, with a total of 262 dying due to the inaccessibility of proper medical care. Now after hundreds dead and counting, it is Israel who refuses to re-enter talks over a cease-fire. They are not intent on securing peace as they claim; it is more and more clear that they are seeking regime change - whatever the cost. 3. Israel claims to be pursuing peace with 'peaceful Palestinians'. Before the on-going massacre in the Gaza Strip, and throughout the entirety of the Annapolis Peace Process, Israel has continued and even intensified its occupation of the West Bank. In 2008, settlement expansion increased by a factor of 38, a further 4,950 Palestinians were arrested - mostly from the West Bank, and checkpoints rose from 521 to 699. Furthermore, since the onset of the peace talks, Israel has killed 546 Palestinians, among them 76 children. These gruesome statistics are set to rise dramatically now, but previous Israeli transgressions should not be forgotten amidst this most recent horror. Only this morning, Israel shot and killed a young peaceful protester in the West Bank village of Nihlin, and has injured dozens more over the last few hours. It is certain that they will continue to employ deadly force at non-violent demonstrations and we expect a sizable body count in the West Bank as a result. If Israel is in fact pursuing peace with 'good Palestinians', who are they talking about? 4. Israel is acting in self-defense. It is difficult to claim self defense in a confrontation which they themselves have sparked, but they are doing it anyway. Self-defense is reactionary, while the actions of Israel over the last two days have been clearly premeditated. Not only did the Israeli press widely report the ongoing public relations campaign being undertaken by Israel to prepare Israeli and international public opinion for the attack, but Israel has also reportedly tried to convince the Palestinians that an attack was not coming by briefly opening crossings and reporting future meetings on the topic. They did so to insure that casualties would be maximized and that the citizens of Gaza would be unprepared for their impending slaughter. It is also misleading to claim self-defense in a conflict with such an overwhelming asymmetry of power. Israel is the largest military force in the region, and the fifth largest in the world. Furthermore, they are the fourth largest exporter of arms and have a military industrial complex rivaling that of the United States. In other words, Israel has always had a comprehensive monopoly over the use of force, and much like its super power ally, Israel uses war as an advertising showcase of its many instruments of death. 5. Israel claims to have struck military targets only. Even while image after image of dead and mutilated women and children flash across our televisions, Israel brazenly claims that their munitions expertly struck only military installations. We know this to be false as many other civilian sites have been hit by airstrikes including a hospital and mosque. In the most densely populated area on the planet, tons upon tons of explosives have been dropped. The first estimates of injured are in the thousands. Israel will claim that these are merely 'collateral damage' or accidental deaths. The sheer ridiculousness and inhumanity of such a claim should sicken the world community. 6. Israel claims that it is attacking Hamas and not the Palestinian people. First and foremost, missiles do not differentiate people by their political affiliation; they simply kill everyone in their path. Israel knows this, and so do Palestinians. What Israel also knows, but is not saying public ally, is how much their recent actions will actually strengthen Hamas - whose message of resistance and revenge is being echoed by the angry and grieving. The targets of the strike, police and not Hamas militants, give us some clue as to Israel's mistaken intention. They are hoping to create anarchy in the Strip by removing the pillar of law and order. 7. Israel claims that Palestinians are the source of violence. Let us be clear and unequivocal. The occupation of Palestine since the War of 1967 has been and remains the root of violence between Israelis and Palestinians. Violence can be ended with the occupation and the granting of Palestine's national and human rights. Hamas does not control the West Bank and yet we remain occupied, our rights violated and our children killed. With these myths understood, let us ponder the real reasons behind these airstrikes; what we find may be even more disgusting than the act itself. The leaders Israel are holding press conferences, dressed in black, with sleeves rolled up. 'It's time to fight', they say, 'but it won't be easy.' To prove just how hard it is, Livni, Olmert and Barak did not even wear make-up to the press conference, and Barak has ended his presidential campaign to focus on the Gaza campaign. What heroes...what leaders... We all know the truth: the suspension of the electioneering is exactly that - electioneering. Like John McCain's suspension of his presidential campaign to return to Washington to 'deal with' the financial crisis, this act is little more than a publicity stunt. The candidates have to appear 'tough enough to lead', and there is seemingly no better way of doing that than bathing in Palestinian blood. 'Look at me,' Livni says in her black suit and unkempt hair, 'I am a warrior. I am strong enough to pull the trigger. Don't you feel more confident about voting for me, now that you know I am as ruthless as Bibi Netanyahu?' I do not know which is more disturbing, her and Barak, or the constituency they are trying to please. In the end, this will in no way improve the security of the average Israeli; in fact it can be expected to get much worse in the coming days as the massacre could presumably provoke a new generation of suicide bombers. It will not undermine Hamas either, and it will not result in the three fools, Barak, Livni and Olmert, looking 'tough'. Their misguided political venture will likely blow up in their faces as did the brutally similar 2006 invasion of Lebanon. In closing, there is another reason - beyond the internal politics of Israel - why this attack has been allowed to occur: the complicity and silence of the international community. Israel cannot and would not act against the will of its economic allies in Europe or its military allies in the US. Israel may be pulling the trigger ending hundreds, perhaps even thousands of lives this week, but it is the apathy of the world and the inhumane tolerance of Palestinian suffering which allows this to occur. 'The evil only exists because the good remain silent' >From Occupied Palestine. . . -- Dr. Mustafa Baghouthi From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 19:47:32 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:47:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: <890026.108.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <890026.108.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra Thank you very much for that compliment! I must say I was thrilled, as anybody would be on hearing their praise. Having said that, I would also inform you and all others, that I actually have been changing my ideologies practically across the years. Before Gujarat happened, I was a BJP supporter, a hardcore one; I opposed Valentine's Day as well. But Gujarat shocked me. I could never in my conscience support a party which allowed rapes to take place so easily, so as to teach Muslims a lesson. Even if I believed that Modi was not responsible for this, the fact that Bajrang Dal volunteers had done it, was shocking. However, I did believe even then that Muslims were being appeased. And then, I used to see it as pleasing them. The next two changes were actually ironical. First, I met Aashish, in my college, who is doing Masters in Development Studies. He was someone who completely exposed the myths of the Right Wing in India before me. And also, he supported one important allegation of the Right Wing, which was that appeasement of Muslims was being done. Because for him, appeasement meant pleasing someone for the sake of pleasing. And he saw that Congress and other parties were doing so only to win Muslim votes, rather than do anything for the sake of their development. The Sachar Committee Report is a testimony to the fact. And ironically, I practically fought debates with him, only to lose every time. And the second was Singur. The Left, whom I had began to admire somewhat, had committed the biggest blunder. And of course, the fact that Jyoti Basu and their ministers, on one hand had got their children educated in English medium schools, while banning English in West Bengal in primary and secondary education, made me realize that the Left is as much a bogus party as is the BJP, although in their case, at least their goal is right. The last thing which made me confident about changing my views was a statement made by Keynes, one of the three famous names in Economics (the other two being Adam Smith and Karl Marx). He had said that change was the law of nature, and so it wasn't wrong if one changed his thinking with time, provided there was a sound backing for it. And the best example was Gandhi. Gandhi changed from accepting his throwing out from a train in South Africa, to not accepting mistreatment of Indians in South Africa and in their own country. He changed his views on medicines and doctoral treatment, a number of times. One may say that our netas also change their parties and ideas at the drop of hat, especially during elections. What separates Gandhi from this, is that not only did he change his ideas, he accepted that he had done so among the public, and practiced them wholeheartedly, till he got a new idea which he found to be better for the people, and hence acceptable. The two may be contradicting, but even then, he had an understanding of India, a good understanding of Indian culture and Indian society. And that is why he is regarded as great, while the netas of India are just treated with disdain by virtually every section of the society. I don't say I understand India necessarily. Born in an urban setup, I don't have any knowledge of the rural India. The knowledge I have got, and the knowledge I will get, will be from books of scholars who travel there. I don't know many things. But yes, terrorism is as much a problem for me, as say, my own love-life going haywire. I am not modest. Yes, truth be told, like every human being, I would love to have power, have the best praise be showered upon me, and I am flattered by the praise I received, and I would even like to be called the best. And it's not as if I am a follower of Gandhi. I am not a follower of anyone, probably except myself. And I do have an ego, as I see it (I will try not to involve this in any discussion, it hampers them). One thing for all as well. I know some of us call this debates, but I would like to call this, discussions. Because debates involve ego, discussions don't. Thanks to Aashish, by the way, for discussions and for also getting me introduced to this list. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 19:52:08 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:52:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: References: <890026.108.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all Aur haan jee. Meri bak bak karne ki bahut aadat hai. Uske liye sab log please maaf kar dena. Par ab se aisa kuch nahi bhejoonga. Nothing personal. Everything on issue. Regards Rakesh From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 22:28:15 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:58:15 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com><840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> Dear Taha and all. if we start stretching the definitions of any word like "terrorism" there will be no limits. The coverage of Israel attacks on media frightens people like me; should we call the media terrorist as they terrorize me? JMM leader has recently been terrorized by UPA allies; and withdrawl of support to JMM by RJD and other parties will murder several hopes and dreams. So is bringing down a government a terrorist activity? Many news agencies call Kashmiri militants as terrorists, but not those belonging to Fatah in Gaza. The media in Israel will do other way round. The media I use for reading/listening news never calls Nuxal activists as terrorists; but Naxlites are called terrorists by many other news papers. The question, what can be called terrorism and what not, brings back to one of the properties of language known as arbitrary relationship between the signifier and signified. Unfortunately to what extent you can be arbitrary with this relationship is also arbitrary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? > Dear Kshmendra, Dear Rakesh, > > Thank you for your posts. > > We seem to be moving in the range of ad hominem arguments and I have no > desire to be dragged into that. > > So for the sake of reinstatement of my views kindly allow me to present my > thoughts again. > > 1. Events related to loss of human life, property, and livelihood are > happening in our country. > 2. These events are framed and articulated by our media. > 3. Media frames some of these events as 'Terror' and 'Terrorism' others > are > not given this tag. > > when I say -Terror- I refer to the following interpretation- > > c.1375 "great fear," from O.Fr. terreur (14c.), from L. terrorem (nom. > terror) "great fear, dread," from terrere "fill with fear, frighten," from > PIE base *tre- "shake" (see > terrible). > Meaning "quality of causing dread" is attested from 1528; terror > bombingfirst recorded 1941, with ref. to German air attack on > Rotterdam. Sense of > "a person fancied as a source of terror" (often with deliberate > exaggeration, as of a naughty child) is recorded from 1883. The Reign of > Terror in Fr. history (March 1793-July 1794) so called in Eng. from 1801. > O.E. words for "terror" included broga and egesa. > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none > > and by Terrorism my interpretation is informed by the reading below- > terrorism [image: > Look > up terrorism at > Dictionary.com]1795, > in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror > in > France" (1793-July 1794), from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see > terror ). > > "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis in > a > time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror > would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent." > [Robespierre, speech in Fr. National Convention, 1794] > > General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded > in > Eng. 1798. Terrorize "coerce or deter by terror" first recorded 1823. > Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947, especially in reference to > Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine -- earlier it was used of > extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the French > Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste. The tendency of one party's > terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter was noted in ref. to > the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973). The > word > terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively, to the Maquis > resistance > in occupied France in World War II (e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, > 1979). > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terror&searchmode=none > > 4. I was curious that why does one type of event is constructed as > -Terrorism- or -Terror- while the other not? > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jan 11 23:11:37 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:41:37 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <933787.18066.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <933787.18066.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901110941m4aa9e9c3x2dc734d225434862@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, (Dear All), Thank you for your mail. Please allow me to go through your points, one by one- 1. Reference missing? Where is this definition coming from? An act of "Terror" needs initiator(s)/executor(s) for that act with the end-purpose being to "Terrify". As, the etymological reference of terror that I gave certainly have nothing to say anything about the intention of an executor or end-purpose. Hence please clarify. 2. An act of "Terror" needs initiator(s)/executor(s) for that act with the end-purpose being to "Terrify". Going by above logic, what would you call members of an army of a country X, who are stationed at place Y for the past, say Z years and regularly indulge in rape, murder and torture of local population not because they want to massacre everyone but because they want to terrify and maintain a perception of fear and insecurity, and it is peace time in that country? 3. Even if you dismiss any single one of the 'Flood Deaths' as being due to Nature/GOD, you would have to prove with evidence that the causing of the Flood was intentional and the motive was to 'terrify'. Sir jee do you have any conclusive evidence that all terrorists caught anywhere in this world had the intention to terrify? 4. Only then would the Floods be an "act of Terror". Think over that.. I think I never made an assertion to the effect, that all floods are acts of terror. Please allow me to re-state, I said WHY are floods not framed as acts of Terror? 5. Connectedly, though not very pertinent, very many times Etymology can be nothing but academia and the flogging of a dead animal when current usage has picked up newer definitions to the meaning. You make academia sound so un-cool and sterile, but anyways etymology is important because it gives us an important point of reference which is pertinant to go back to in in order to make sense of a meaning of a word that we are asked to imbibe. For instance if we start using the word love for murder and use it for a couple of hundred of years then don't you feel that it would be nice to have someone refer the etymological roots of love and make that connection between what it meant or refered and what it means now. I think it will. Some times it is necessary to flog dead animals to make sense of the fact that, that once that animal was alive, and think and ponder about the nature of that animal and the nature of the life it might have lived. 6. I suggest to you to first fixate yourself on understanding "Terrorism" as an ideology as followed today. What do you mean by this, please explain? 7. the referred to "Flood Deaths" are not due to 'acts of Terror'. I did not said those words, all I am doing is asking, Why are floods not framed in the language of terror? Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jan 11 23:35:27 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:05:27 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111005h4d99e801ha1337f72def4b6f5@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, 1. If we start stretching the definitions of any word like "terrorism" there will be no limits. So should we stretch the definitions of those words only which are limited or we should we have only limited definition of words or should we stretch those words only which have limited definition? Kindly elaborate on this rather complex framework that you have posed. 2. The question, what can be called terrorism and what not, brings back to one of the properties of language known as arbitrary relationship between the signifier and signified. You have raised a very important point by stating that the relationship between the signifier and signified is arbitrary. If I remember correctly you used the same definition few weeks ago when you were trying to define identity. I do not have anything to add to that, except that I may want to quote you to other people in case of discussion on the national identity card. I hope you do not mind. Regards Taha From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 01:22:56 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:52:56 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> <65be9bf40901111005h4d99e801ha1337f72def4b6f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2B0D1EBC82214C1DBD31CD7197458FE1@tara> Dear Taha. Of course, it doesn't matter if I mind or I don't/won't. If you decide to quote people out of context, it won't serve anybody's purpose. You might indulge in the act of academic terrorism (in the stretched sense). Even though I am nnot terrorized, still I wish I had not engaged with you, I don't like arguing for the heck of it. I don't like people quoting others out of context. Before I surrender, let me clarify that the signifier signified relationship is not the same between an id card and its holder and the word terrorist and what it signifies. As I said earlier, let me repeat, the relationship between signifier (the id card) and what it signifies (in whose name it has been issued) is not Sussurean and not arbitrary. There is a name and a photograph on the card that minimizes, if not completely eliminates, the arbitrary relationship between the two. You can quote me anywhere you like on this. You appear to be a scholar. I will feel honored to be quoted by you. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com ; reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? Dear Taraprakash, 1. If we start stretching the definitions of any word like "terrorism" there will be no limits. So should we stretch the definitions of those words only which are limited or we should we have only limited definition of words or should we stretch those words only which have limited definition? Kindly elaborate on this rather complex framework that you have posed. 2. The question, what can be called terrorism and what not, brings back to one of the properties of language known as arbitrary relationship between the signifier and signified. You have raised a very important point by stating that the relationship between the signifier and signified is arbitrary. If I remember correctly you used the same definition few weeks ago when you were trying to define identity. I do not have anything to add to that, except that I may want to quote you to other people in case of discussion on the national identity card. I hope you do not mind. Regards Taha From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 01:52:39 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:22:39 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> <65be9bf40901111005h4d99e801ha1337f72def4b6f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0215581EC093417B9868B571CB4A1927@tara> Dear Taha and all. Taha asked "should we stretch the definitions of those words only which are limited or we should we have only limited definition of words or should we stretch those words only which have limited definition?" I am afraid I don't have an answer to it. I wish there was nobody with an absolutely correct answer to that. The answer to this question, I believe, is contingent upon time, place, person and their perspectives. One sense of the word "stretching" is masturbation. It is good as a stimulant, but not necessarily a useful one. Some people think it productive, others unproductive, others consider it counter productive. Sadly, I have no opinion on this issue, to stretch or not to stretch; or if stretch, how much. Best ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com ; reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? Dear Taraprakash, 1. If we start stretching the definitions of any word like "terrorism" there will be no limits. So should we stretch the definitions of those words only which are limited or we should we have only limited definition of words or should we stretch those words only which have limited definition? Kindly elaborate on this rather complex framework that you have posed. 2. The question, what can be called terrorism and what not, brings back to one of the properties of language known as arbitrary relationship between the signifier and signified. You have raised a very important point by stating that the relationship between the signifier and signified is arbitrary. If I remember correctly you used the same definition few weeks ago when you were trying to define identity. I do not have anything to add to that, except that I may want to quote you to other people in case of discussion on the national identity card. I hope you do not mind. Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 12 04:11:42 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:41:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is the singular Rhetoric of Terror flawed? In-Reply-To: <0215581EC093417B9868B571CB4A1927@tara> References: <65be9bf40901100240g26c2481cied77ee70150120b0@mail.gmail.com> <840760.9888.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40901100442p1508c9e0ve941ec68e857f6d1@mail.gmail.com> <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> <65be9bf40901111005h4d99e801ha1337f72def4b6f5@mail.gmail.com> <0215581EC093417B9868B571CB4A1927@tara> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111441w1031da86u532c874a853cb3e6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash (Dear All), I do not think that whatever I wrote was to prove or disapprove anything. Nor it was my intention to use your thoughts as some from a instrument to ward off or defend arguments that may come my way in future, especially with respect to the National Identity card. That is why I wrote, by the way of a caveat, that I hope you do not mind, rather than to directly use your quote. Having said that, I quite agree with your suggestion that perhaps, I wish there was nobody with an absolutely correct answer to that. (that being- "should we stretch the definitions of those words only which are limited or we should we have only limited definition of words or should we stretch those words only which have limited definition?") I have come to appreciate the inconclusiveness of meanings contained in any language that you also allude to. Seen from a distance, a language appears to be continuously evolving. At the same time we have to encounter and make meaning of terms on almost a daily basis. In this regard, I find the general consensus around words such as terror, terrorism, terrorist etc at variance with this property of language. This was the perhaps the reason that led me to pose that- why do we need to frame floods as natural or man made disaster only and not terror attacks or why can't we frame social calamities like recent 'Bombay Terror Attacks' as man made disasters. We may not have fixed meanings but we must surely strive to have some clarity. Hence, before we allow ourselves to be completely charmed by the magic of these words should we not invest more time in thinking about it? Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 12 06:43:43 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:13:43 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-54 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111713p33971c26s673d0ad0bf66c622@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=314574 LSQ-HOME*PRINT* * EMAIL* NEW DELHI, AUG 3 (PTI) The Government today said it will facilitate all attempts including mutual agreement among all the parties concerned to find an amicable resolution of the Ayodhya dispute. The Government is of the view that the dispute can be resolved either through mutual agreement among all the parties concerned which must, in turn, receive legal sanction or through a verdict of the judiciary, Minister of State for Home Sriprakash Jaiswal said in a written reply in Rajya Sabha. Register: The Government proposes to prepare a National Register of Indian citizens and issue multipurpose National Identity Cards to the citizens of the country, Minister of State for Home S Regupathhy said. Keeping in view the complexities involved, a Pilot Project has been undertaken on an experimental basis in a few selected sub-districts of 12 states and one Union Territory, he said adding the project is expected to be completed by December 2005 at an estimated cost of Rs 30 crore. Pakistanis: As per available information, 8230 Pakistani citizens were reportedly staying illegally in India as on April 30, 2005. Deportation of such persons was a continuous process and as per readily availlable information, 820 Pak nationals were deported from January 1, 200 till April 2005, he said. Crime: Since the commencement of President's Rule in Bihar from March 2005 to May 2005, 633 cases of kidnapping, 891 cases of murder and 325 cases of dacoity were reported, he said adding incidents of murder have declined. Foreigners: There were 2,205 foreign nationals in various jails of the country as on December 31, 2005 constituting 0.7 per cent of the total prison population in India as per statistics of the National Crime Records Bureau, Minister of State for Home Manikrao Hodlya Gavit said. Film stars: During investigations by the Crime Branch, Mumbai, it was revealed that a few film personalities used to indulge in betting in cricket matches, he said, adding the investigation was yet to be completed. Infiltration: There was a significant reduction in the incidence of infiltration in 2004 along the International Border/LoC in Jammu and Kashmir as compared to 2003 and the trend continues even during the current year till June 2005, Jaiswal said. Bangladeshis: There has been illegal migration of Bangladeshi nationals into India and during 2002-2004, 21,539 Bangladeshi nationals were intercepted/apprehended and 62,458 deported to Bangladesh in this period. Violence: The level of violence has gone down in Jammu and Kashmir and in the naxalite affected states during the current year (upto June 30, 2005) as compared to the corresponding period last year, he said. The number of violent incidents remained more or less at the same level in the North Eastern States during the same period, he said. As per available inputs, terrorist incidents in Jammu and Kashmir and some North Eastern states, as also the incident in Ayodhya and twin blasts in Delhi cinema halls, were carried out by terrorist outfits being assisted and sponsored from across the border, especially in the Western Sector, he said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 12 06:44:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:14:50 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-55 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111714o2a74229dh34cf90be740ed265@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2007/04/11/stories/2007041108610400.htm The Hindu Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 *ECIL records 45 p.c. growth in sales * Special Correspondent * It provided security systems to Parliament, key installations * ------------------------------ * * *Growth rate between 25 to 50 per cent expected in 2007-08 * *Exports 8,000 electronic voting machines to Bhutan * ------------------------------ HYDERABAD: The Electronics Corporation of India Limited (ECIL) has achieved a gross turnover of Rs.1,017 crores and a profit before tax of about Rs.120 crores during 2006-07, registering a 45 per cent growth in sales over the previous year, Chairman and Managing Director K. S. Rajasekhara Rao said at a press conference here on Tuesday. Growth rate ranging from 25 to 50 per cent was expected in 2007-08, as orders worth Rs.500 crores were on hand and another Rs.800 crores were in the pipeline. The company had earmarked Rs.60 crores for capital expenditure. Outlining some of the recent achievements, he said the company had delivered a 32-metre diameter antenna deep space network programme to the Space Department for Chandrayan project. Similarly, it was supplying solid state cockpit voice recorder (black box) to Air Force and Navy and exported 8,000 electronic voting machines (EVMs) to Bhutan. Orders were also received from South Africa for EVMs. He said that ECIL, BEL and ITI were involved in a pilot project for producing two million multi-purpose national identity cards for citizens. It would be completed by July-end. ECIL had also provided integrated security systems to Parliament in the wake of the terrorist attack on December 13, 2001, as also to Prime Minister's residence and key installations. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 12 06:45:48 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:15:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-56 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111715m77c43c2bmf743a30123eff30@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=286650 SC LD BANGLADESHIS*PRINT* *EMAIL* SC asks for steps taken on Assam report on B'deshis NEW DELHI, MAR 17 (PTI) Concerned over largescale illegal migration from Bangladesh to India, the Supreme Court today asked the Union Government to state within two weeks the steps taken by it on a report of the Assam Governor in 1998 presenting a grim picture of the demographic change by the influx of migrants. A Bench comprising Chief Justice R C Lahoti, Justice G P Mathur and Justice P K Balasubramanyan, hearing a batch of petitions on this issue, also asked the Centre whether it had taken any decision on extending the Illegal Migrants Determination through Tribunal (IMDT) Act to states other than Assam. Additional Solicitor General Amarendra Saran said that the Centre as well as the Assam Government were not in favour of repeal of the Act, constitutional validity of which was challenged by few petitioners, including Sarbanadna Sonawal. The Bench also asked the Centre whether it has taken any step in the direction of preparation of a National Register of Indian Citizens and issuance of Multi-purpose National Identity cards (MNIC) to stop illegal migration into the country. It posted the matter for further hearing on March 30. The then Governor, Lt Gen S K Sinha, had in a hard-hitting report, expressed serious concern over largescale illegal Bangladeshi migration into Assam and had said that it was changing the demography of the region at an alarming rate. The problem of illegal Bangladeshi migrants was first brought to the Court's notice by a PIL filed by the All India Lawyers Forum for Civil Liberties through counsel O P Saxena who had alleged that apart from the demographic change, they were causing a serious security threat to the country. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 12 06:48:18 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:18:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-57 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111718i59b12ad5y969a0478b7d23ce@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2007/12/29/stories/2007122953720600.htm The Hindu Saturday, Dec 29, 2007 Andhra Pradesh - Tirupati * ECIL unveils plans for its Tirupati unit* Staff Reporter * ECIL records Rs.1000 cr.turnover and profit of Rs.190 cr. * TIRUPATI: After achieving an impressive Rs.1000 crore turnover and a profit of Rs.190 crore in 2006-07, which has been officially claimed as its 'best year', Electronics Corporation of India Limited (ECIL) has unveiled an ambitious manufacturing plan for its Tirupati unit up to the end of the 2008-09 fiscal. The company, which has successfully met the automation, control and IT needs of the strategy sectors like space, security, atomic energy and civil aviation, now plans to adopt a five-pronged strategy to foray into fields as diverse as healthcare solutions, agriculture, education, community service and public administration. The ECIL board which met here on Friday decided to make the most of the sprawling Tirupati plant. The company's second manufacturing unit established in 1983 dedicated to TV receivers, is now all set to be developed as a world class infrastructure for bulk manufacture of Multipurpose National Identity Cards (MNIC), which the ECIL is engaged in jointly with BEL and ITI. Announcing the corporation's 'vigorous engagement' in applications for societal benefit, the Chairman and Managing Director K. S. Rajasekhara Rao said that the company would start introducing Digital Radiology System aimed at bringing cost-effective healthcare solutions to the rural masses. "For this, High Resolution LCD Monitors, part of our medical electronics equipment, are proposed to be manufactured in the Tirupati unit in phases, for which an understanding has already been reached with a USA-based company", he said. Mr. Rao also said that a 'Market yard management system' based on intelligent kiosk had been developed towards ensuring support for the farming community. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 12 06:51:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:21:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-58 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901111721k1f82c37en7a81394057a206ad@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/After_2011_10-yearly_census_may_be_a_thing_of_the_past/articleshow/2980899.cms After 2011, 10-yearly census may be a thing of the past 25 Apr 2008, 0405 hrs IST, TNN NEW DELHI: Census 2011 may be the last such gigantic exercise for population enumeration in India which has been a regular drill every 10 years since 1872. If the government has its way, the country will move to a new era of having a "real time population data" post-2011 — making it possible to have ready to use accurate population data at merely click of the mouse at any point of time. The shift will be possible as the government is planning to merge the preparation of the electronically-guided National Population Register (NPR) with the 2011 Census. The NPR will subsequently be linked to the system of registration of births and deaths in the country and the process will update the data using every addition and deletion. Stating the possibility of such exercise post-2011, home minister Shivraj Patil said on Thursday, "The NPR may, in fact, usher in the era of register based census in the country which will help in future to have the estimates of population on a real time basis by combining it with the system of resignation of births and deaths in the country." Addressing the Data Users Conference for Census 2011, Patil said, "I expect that the creation of NPR with the same reference date as the census will be immensely useful and will serve as a ready reckoner to know the number in each family/household." Since the NPR will have specified characteristics of each individual along with the photograph and finger biometrics, the register will provide a more comprehensive and accurate data to demographers and experts. The idea to have new system in place of the traditional approach of population enumeration gained ground within the government in the wake of number of discrepancies reported in the 2001 Census. Even the home minister admitted to the shortcomings of the traditional method while addressing experts and officials during the conference. He said, "The real test of quality of data comes when it is used for application in the real life situations. In the delimitation exercise which has been completed for most of the states in the country, doubts have been raised about the population data in 2001 census in certain states." Discrepancies in the data occur as under the traditional approach, the population is counted wherever they are found to be living during the three weeks of census taking. But with the increasing mobility and, consequent, inter-state migration of the people, this approach has a limitation of giving exact figure. Officials participating in the conference believe that shifting from the traditional method of census — which happens every 10 years — to the new real-time regular data collection will not only solve the problem but also save thousands of crores of rupees. In fact, the 2001 Census cost Rs 1,403 crore to the exchequer. The expenditure will be higher in 2011 when the population of the country is expected to be around 1.20 billion. But, what about the other kind of data being collected during the census? Officials said that socio-economic data — including literacy and occupation figures — may also be updated in the NPR as per change in profile of individuals being recorded in the ongoing Multi-Purpose National Identity Card Scheme (MNIC). With release of census data currently taking four to eight years from the date of completion of the exercise, Patil said efforts should be made to complete the task in two to three years. He said, "It should be our endeavour to squeeze the time further and complete the release of 2011 data in maximum two to three years from the date of completion of census." From navayana at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 08:47:40 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:47:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] TODAY: Anupama Rao at Sarai-CSDS, 3.30 p.m., 12 Jan Message-ID: NAVAYANA invites you to Navayana-Sarai lecture # 3 Anupama Rao will speak on Theorizing Caste Violence in Postcolonial India Thoughts from Maharashtra 3:30 pm, 12 January 2009 Seminar Room, CSDS This talk takes up the relationship between symbolic politics and political violence as they have influenced changing repertoires of caste violence and Dalit politics in Maharashtra, from the namantar struggle of the 1970s, to the present. Anupama Rao is trained as an anthropologist and historian, and teaches at Barnard College, Columbia University. She is the author of The Caste Question: Dalits and Politics in Modern India (University of California Press, forthcoming); contributing editor of Discipline and the Other Body: Correction, Corporeality and Colonialism (Duke University Press, 2006), as well as Gender and Caste (Kali for Women, 2003), and the author of numerous publications, including "Death of a Kotwal: Injury and the Politics of Recognition," Subaltern Studies XII. www.navayana.org -- Navayana Publishing E92, II Floor Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 From kiccovich at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 09:01:07 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:31:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Information, Society and Justice, Vol. 2(1) In-Reply-To: <2725DC02FF604DED93F854ED3798635C@tara> Message-ID: <167224.5288.qm@web31702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear all The new issue of Information, Society and Justice  "World cities and their Media and Information Network" is now out. http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/londonmet/library/s67861_3.pdf Hope you find the reading interesting Cheers francesca From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 10:49:46 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:49:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , An interesting post ! However on a quick note , i would like to mention that Kashmiri Hindus wont return to valley in the present circumstances. Kashmiri Hindus have over 1000 years of similar history with more than 8 forced exodus . The only way Kashmiri Hindus would go back to valley is with the creation of union territory of Panun Kashmir. For more details log into www.panunkashmir.org Regards Pawan Durani On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Lalit Sir (and all) > > As I went through your article, I was reminded of a video I saw regarding > the Kashmiri Pandit situation. This video was shot more than 10 years ago. > A > lot of water must have flown down in Jhelum since then. > > I agree with the fact that Kashmiri Pandits should not have been thrown out > of their homes. And the reason they were asked to leave is primarily > because, Kashmiris wanted azadi. And the violence was wrong on that count. > Having said that, the root cause of the problem must also be studied. And > that is where the problem starts. > > Unlike say Hydrebad and Junagadh, which acceded to India based on popular > support, the state of Jammu & Kashmir didn't do so because they supported > India, but because they had faith in Sheikh Abdullah. And since India > jailed > him for 22 years, Kashmiris didn't have great faith in India, because they > believed that they had been cheated. Continuing with all this, we had > situations in 1983 when the elected governments were overthrown with use of > money power and new CM's installed as puppets. And the biggest disaster > were > the 1987 elections, when the NC won thanks to the most unfair election ever > conducted in Kashmir. > > In any other part of India, it would have led to an agitation against the > elected government, and the people would have demanded re-election of the > state assembly, since the Indian nationalism rhetoric has seeped down among > the masses, and hence we all consider ourselves as Indians(it is ironic > since unlike European nations, there can't be a nation-statist definition > of > India). But among the Kashmiris, this is not the case, and hence > considering > this as another blow from India, they asked for azadi. And this has been > the > case since then. They asked for Pandits to leave, since they believed they > started believing in Yasin Malik and their folk, that Pandits are Indian > spies and should be made to leave. > > The conduct of Kashmiri Muslims then was not certainly one to be bravely > talked about. It was very shameful and disgusting on their part. But does > that mean that one wrong must be answered back with another wrong/ For the > last 18-19 years, the Indian Army personnel are stationed in Kashmir. We > all > know the armed forces stationed in Mumbai for 3 days during Mumabi attacks. > That has been the positioning of armed forces across streets in Srinagar, > not for 3 days but for more than 18 years. Any person can be checked any > time of the day, as if all Kashmiri Muslims are terrorists. > > Army personnel have committed grave human right violations, including > prostitutions and fake encounters across the state. Is that what they asked > for? Consider yourself. Even if you were not the supporter of azadi in the > state, if your father or mother is killed, would you ever support the > Indian > State? I don't think so, for that is the normal tendency. > > The Leftists have fought for freedom and right to life of Muslims and > Christians. It's time they also realize there is a right to life for Hindus > as well. There is no consideration on the part of the Left for these > Pandits. Having said that, there is no concern among the Army personnel for > the Kashmiris who have suffered the brunt of the violence from both sides, > the army as well as the terrorists. > > And finally, the last part. The Pandits may have been in a terribly bad > situation about 10 years back, but that certainly is not the case. If I am > not wrong, a tribunal was introduced to solve cases of land grabbing where > the land of those displaced, was grabbed by locals. People were sentenced > to > punishments and jails. What's more, as one of my friends himself got to > know > from some others who belonged to Kashmir, Pandits have given their land for > rent (they have houses there), or sold it, so that they don't have anything > to do with it later. > > The last straw was when Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister himself > inaugurated the buildings for Pandits to come back. Credit must be given to > Mufti Mohammed Sayeed's healing touch and his promise that he will try to > get the Pandits back. The Kashmiri Muslims themselves hoped that Pandits > would come back. But the Pandits didn't come, for they didn't believe the > Kashmiri Muslims any longer. > > Since there is a trust deficit now, and it seems the Pandits would never > return, I would like to ask all of you, including Lalit Sir you as well, > whether > > a) Has any study been made to know today's conditions of the Pandits? If > for > reservation, we can't rely on the 1931 census to decide the quota of > percentage to be reserved for OBC's, then why should we rely on the > situation of Pandits 10 or 15 years back? > > b) Whether there is any chance of the Pandits coming back or not? If yes, > why? If no, why? And if the reasons are economic and trust based, then can > we really get back the Pandits to Kashmir? Is it really necessary then? > > These are some of the questions which need to be asked. > > I again repeat one thing. The displacement of Pandits in the manner it was > done is wrong, was wrong and will always be wrong. But similarly, the human > right violations by the Indian army and the local police will also be > wrong. > > > And two wrongs never make a right. But of course, for the hard core BJP and > the left supporters, they do make a right. The proof is Singur and Gujarat. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajeshr at csds.in Mon Jan 12 11:33:32 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:33:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Change in timing- Talk by Peter Fitzpatrick at CSDS on 13th Jan Message-ID: The talk on `Secular Theology and Occidental Imperial Formation: The Latin Roots' by Peter Fitzpatrick at CSDS on 13th January 2009 will be at *11 AM*and not at 2:30 PM as announced earlier. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Rajesh Ramakrishnan Academic Secretary Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) From rahulroy63 at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 10:16:28 2009 From: rahulroy63 at gmail.com (Rahul Roy) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:16:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [DFA NewsLetter] MAKING MIGRANT: DIALOGUES THROUGH FILM: Screenings at IIC Message-ID: *MAKING MIGRANT: DIALOGUES THROUGH FILM A Series of Screenings and Discussions Auditorium, India International Centre Thursday, 15th January to Sunday 18th January, 2009 * The Public Service Broadcasting Trust; Dr Radhika Chopra, Department of Sociology, University of Delhi and the India International Centre are organising a series of film screenings and discussions, between 15 and 18 January 2009, entitled Making Migrant: Dialogues through Film. The series will focus on the experiences, processes and realities that go into creating the `migrant'. The event will showcase powerful films dealing with the politics of migration, labour, identity, citizenship, human rights, exile, dehumanisation, refugees, borders, home and many other complexities of what constitutes migration, not in terms of statistics, but the social, political, economic and emotional realities that lie behind them. * Making Migrant: Dialogues through Film 15-18 January 09 India International Centre Programme* Thursday, 15 January Auditorium 06:30 pm A FORGOTTEN PEOPLE: THE SAKHALIN KOREANS (Dai Sil Kim-Gibson | 1995 | 59") The documentary presents a neglected aspect of World War II and a tragic legacy of the Cold War: the saga of the Koreans who spent 50 years on Sakhalin Island. Koreans were brought by the Japanese to the island as forced labourers during the war, only to be abandoned to the Soviet Union in 1945. Forgotten by everyone including their own country, less than 1,000 remain of the original 43,000 labourers. It is a universal story of displaced peoples whose lives were assigned to oblivion as the power struggle unfolded in the latter part of the 20th century. Film Courtesy: Dai Sil Kim-Gibson Discussion: Prof. Radha Kumar Friday, 16 January Auditorium 06:30 pm OUJDA FRONTIERLAND (From Sahara Chronicle: A Collection of Videos on Mobility and the Politics of Containment in the Sahara. Ursula Biemann | 2006-07 | 7".10') A video collection containing a number of short videos that visually chronicle the current sub-Saharan exodus towards Europe. The piece examines the politics of mobility and containment which lies at the heart of the current global geopolitics and takes a close look at the modalities and logistics of the migration system in the Sahara. This piece looks at the impossibility of marking borders in desert landscapes. Film Courtesy: Ursula Biemann 06:40 pm DUR KINARA (SHORES FAR AWAY) Savyasaachi Jain | 2007 | 53" A film about the thousands of Indians who are smuggled across borders to Europe every year. Their journey is a saga of risk, deprivation and imprisonment. Many die en route. Some freeze to death, others are killed by the smugglers' mafia or disappear without a trace, leaving their families wondering what happened to them. The film moves across the borders of Austria, the UK and India to highlight the multiple crossings of transnational migration. A film about the thousands of Indians. Film Courtesy: Savyasaachi Jain Discussion: Dr Prabhu Mohapatra, Prof. Meenakshi Thapan, Savyasaachi Jain Saturday, 17 January Auditorium 11:00 am SAHAR: BEFORE THE SUN (Sahar Adish, Joe Babarsky, Sanja Jovanovic, Luke Tilghman 2005 | 5".30') >From "Beyond Borders: Personal Stories from a Small Planet" After the Taliban took control of Kabul in 1996, Sahar Adish fled Afghanistan with her family to find safety in the United States. Sahar, at age 18, speaks powerfully of the courage and aspirations of her parents, her family's struggle for intellectual freedom and educational rights. Her fierce will to continue her schooling in her new homeland is in part a reflection and remembrance of the denial of education imposed by the Taliban in Afghanistan. Film Courtesy: Listen Up! Youth Media Network 11:10 am FOREIGNERS (Ayala Sharot | 2006 | 9". 40') The film is based on interviews with ten young people from different countries who live in London. These interviews suggest a fresh look on contemporary English culture, and raise more fundamental questions about cultural differences and human nature. The animation combines various techniques including rotoscoping, sketches and hand rendered animation. Film Courtesy: Ayala Sharot 11:20 am I FOR INDIA (Sandhya Suri |2005 | 70") A bitter-sweet time capsule of alienation, discovery, racism and belonging, "I for India" is a chronicle of immigration in sixties Britain and beyond, seen through the eyes of one Asian family and their movie camera. Images of events travel across space and time to capture the links between multiple homes. Film Courtesy: Sandhya Suri Discussion: Sir Mark Tully 04:00 pm CONTINUOUS JOURNEY (Ali Kazimi | 2004 | 87") In 1914, the Komagata Maru, a ship carrying 376 immigrants from British India, was turned away by Canada. The consequences were felt throughout the British Empire. Continuous Journey is a compelling and eye-opening investigation into the past and present ramifications of this incident. More than history film, Continuous Journey is a provocative, moving, and multilayered essay that interweaves photographs, newsreels, home movies and official documents to unravel a complex and little-known story. Film Courtesy: Ali Kazimi 05:30 pm REX VS SINGH (Ali Kazimi, John Greyson, Richard Fung | 2008 | 30") The film documents the trial of two Sikh men charged with sodomy in Vancouver in 1915 and explores the intersections of race, homophobia and the law, where sexual orientation was deployed for deportation. Film Courtesy: Ali Kazimi 06:00 pm BACKSTAGE BOYS (Meera Dewan | 2002 | 30") An exploration of illegal immigration of young men, from Punjab to Europe and North America, in search of a better life and `for the sake of the family'. Film Courtesy: PSBT Discussion: Prof. Harleen Singh, Prof. Shohini Ghosh Richard Fung , Meera Dewan Sunday, 18 January Auditorium 04:00 pm DREAMING OF TIBET (Will Parrinello | 2006 | 60") In isolated communities around the world, particularly in India, Nepal and the United States, Tibetan exiles have created a 'virtual Tibet,' where they have endured and even flourished in the face of overwhelming adversity. The film follows their arduous journeys from Tibet into exile over a 19,000 foot Himalayan pass. The film looks at the lives of three extraordinary Tibetan exiles who have survived in exile and are deeply involved in working for the survival of their culture.: Ms. Tseten Phanucharas, a political activist, who is one of the Dalai Lama's press coordinators in Los Angeles; Ms. Tsering Lhamo, a nurse working with recent refugees in Kathmandu, Nepal; and Mr. Ngawang Ugyen, a monk in the Mt. Everest foothills. Film Courtesy: Foundation for Universal Responsibility Discussion: Dr Bharati Puri, Youdon Aukatsang 06:00 pm DESERT RADIO DRONE | 5"40' INTERVIEW ADAWA | 10"20' DEPORTATION PRISON LAAYOUNE | 5"46' >From Sahara Chronicle: A Collection of Videos on Mobility and the Politics of Containment in the Sahara. Ursula Biemann | 2006-07 A video collection containing an undefined number of short videos documenting the present sub-Saharan exodus towards Europe. The piece examines the politics of mobility and containment which lies at the heart of the current global geopolitics and takes a close look at the modalities and logistics of the migration system in the Sahara. Unlike the networks facilitated by lasting material infrastructures such as rails or fibreglass, the trans-Saharan migration network is a vibrant process of spatialisation performed by the psychic dynamics of anxiety, fantasy and desire, a web made of obstinacy and vulnerability. Film Courtesy: Ursula Biemann 06:30 pm X-MISSION (Ursula Biemann | 2008 | 35") "X-Mission" explores the logic of the refugee camp as one of the oldest extraterritorial zones. Taking Palestinian refugee camps as a case in point, the video engages with the different discourses – legal, symbolic, urban, mythological, historical – that give meaning to this exceptional space. According to International Law, the Palestinian refugee represents the "exception within the exception" outside the domain of rights. In the course of 60 years they had to build a civil life in the camps, fostering an intense microcosm with complex relations to homeland and diaspora. Given the vital connections among the separated Palestinian populations, the video attempts to place the Palestinian refugee in the context of a global diaspora and considers post-national models of belonging which have emerged through the networked matrix of this widely dispersed community Film Courtesy: Ursula Biemann Discussion: Prof. Achin Vanaik, Dr Nivedita Menon --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Please DO NOT REPLY to the sender. To contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive Our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pratilipi.in at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 18:03:23 2009 From: pratilipi.in at gmail.com (Pratilipi) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:03:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inviting Contributions to our Anniversary Issue (Experiencing Terror / Terror as Experience) + A Questionnaire In-Reply-To: <435290ba0901092243r521fe62buaa1132f91b903e94@mail.gmail.com> References: <435290ba0901020216m65f3aa94safb21fa075574db@mail.gmail.com> <435290ba0901020222p465d89d3me99b571d89476c39@mail.gmail.com> <435290ba0901022303j4fafe161pfd49ee388ffcdc96@mail.gmail.com> <435290ba0901030849y277f048dp43529d5491b8afd6@mail.gmail.com> <435290ba0901092243r521fe62buaa1132f91b903e94@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <435290ba0901100433m1ca68a53s36b1cc52fabea885@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Pratilipi (http://www.pratilipi.in) is a bilingual (Hindi/English), bimonthly, mostly Indian, online magazine of literature and cultural discourse, also available in print. We have published five issues so far and the full list of contributors (thus far) can be viewed here: http://pratilipi.in/full-list-of-contributors/ Our next issue (Feb 2009) will be our first anniversary issue. The lead theme for this issue is "Experiencing Terror" / "Terror as Experience". The immediate context is obvious but we intend to explore the theme beyond the immediate. It's a well-known fact that terror, as a human (and non-human) experience has many origins, many contexts and many ways of being, though, somehow, it's fast becoming a fixed, limited signifier devoid of its plurality. We intend to focus primarily on the experience(s) and not on the discourse(s) of/on/about terror and hopefully on texts where experience becomes discourse. TWe are inviting writing/art on/about all forms of terror – from the daily, somewhat 'personal' terror of a teacher/father/boss/local goons/institutions to the experience of a kind of 'collective' terror at certain points in history. The contribution can be in any media, in any form (fiction/non-fiction/poetry/writing about a book/film/painting/performance, audio, video). We are also attaching a questionnaire on the theme. We request all the contributors to respond to the questionnaire. The responses will become a feature. The issue will come out in February 2009. Warm regards, Editors *Pratilipi Questionnaire: Terror as an Experience* Anniversary Issue, February 2009 Last Date for Sending Responses: January 31, 2009 * Q1. Have you ever felt 'terrorized' by something? Have you ever told/described it to someone? Has it found an expression in your work?* *Q2. At a psychological / aesthetic / philosophical level, can terror be 'represented' in art? Would you like to name certain works (art/writing) in which it has been done effectively?* *Q3. Which would you consider to be the most terrorizing moment / event / ideology you have known?* *Q4. How do you respond to the rhetoric of terror(ism) in mainstream media and politics? * *Q5. Have the terrorist activities around made you feel insecure?* -- प्रतिलिपि: द्विमासिक द्विभाषी पत्रिका Pratilipi: A Bilingual Bimonthly Magazine http://pratilipi.in From abhayraj at aya.yale.edu Mon Jan 12 12:34:39 2009 From: abhayraj at aya.yale.edu (Abhayraj Naik) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:34:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Quirk magazine online archive Message-ID: Hi All, I hope that you are well, wherever you may be. For your information, Quirk Magazine (Jan 2005 - August 2006) is archived online here: https://sites.google.com/site/superquirk/ -apologies for cross posting- Regards for a glorious 2009, Abhayraj Naik _________________________________________________________________ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 12:36:30 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:36:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Welcome_Aboard_Junior_Abdullah_=85?= =?windows-1252?q?=2E!!!?= In-Reply-To: <6353c690901111000q291153b4y65da4a276dbed2d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690901110738h1f42cd85kb52e4afe000333a3@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110936t6776076fo87543e58414b148@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110937p483d6a32x3f82603c347e0e99@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110938g29635d77wd360b50c86e4fbd1@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110940u6da329e9j832a690182e1d547@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110943q2ae05098yeabb3d8e5c05e4af@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110946y7ce68639wce67c404bf5fe002@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110952m38db93e8ye4711dc89b96a0cd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901110956k66d8a3fj11f97768d53ae165@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901111000q291153b4y65da4a276dbed2d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690901112306i665c3d9ha9c4b48c4513c8aa@mail.gmail.com> Welcome Aboard Junior Abdullah ….!!! by Pooja Shali *Another opportunity for a crippled state to regain its paradise.* ** *One more possibility to attempt change.* ** *Jammu and Kashmir proudly presents to the nation a young, dynamic and an extremely promising Chief Minister. Roots In Kashmir (RIK) team recognises the call for youth to lead the valley to a safe haven. When Omar was sworn in, his optimism suggested an outlook that the state is in a desperate need of. The press interviews indicated a vision, hope and a flicker of progress. Age by his side, political lineage to bank upon and a well-bred pragmatic mindset seems to have provided a leader to the clueless masses. * And yet all doesn't appear that heavenly. The newly elected Chief Minister is aware of the dogmatic situation in J & K. A state divided with Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh all demanding their individual identities. Separatist Islamist agendas retaliated with brutal state force have become unmanageable for any authority in the political arena Now that Omar stands at that position, would he really be able to deliver? Well, we will watch and without doubt cooperate wherever required. * It was a great statesman like beginning when Omar honestly confessed, "I think most of the people, including me, did not make their voice heard when the Kashmiri Pandits were being forced out of the Kashmir valley by terrorists; and were forced to live like refugees in their own country". read more at - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2009/01/welcome-aboard-junior.html Kindly pass on and comment on the blog! On behalf of Roots In Kashmir Aditya Raj Kaul* From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 13:57:35 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:57:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] EPW Article By Medha Patkar and Amit Bhaduri on Industrialisation Message-ID: A very well argued piece. Patkar, Medha and Bhaduri, Amit. *Industrialisation for the people, by the people, of the people. *Economic and Political Weekly, January 3, 2009. Pg 10-14 http://epw.in/uploads/articles/13034.pdf Economic, political and social processes are interwoven inextricably in the course of development. Developmental economics is sterile without an understanding of the accompanying developmental politics, which involves the interaction of the State with the major actors. At the core of this politico-economic process is the role assigned to industrialisation. Thus the current debate about industrialisation is essentially a debate about how the economic and political factors would drive, in an interlocked manner, the transformation of our economy, polity and society, and it should not be trivialised into statistics about growth rates. Our dissenting voices about the current pattern of high growth are often branded as anti-development. Therefore we need to state why we oppose the present pat- tern of industrialisation in India, and how an alternative path can be charted out, starting with a few practical steps. There are five main reasons for our opposition as political activists, and associated with each there is a corresponding economic step that needs to be taken to initiate the alternative process of development within the realm of practical politics and reasonable economics. *1 Deepening of Democracy and People's rights* Politicians, economists and commentators of all sorts from the media treat it as almost axiomatic that the standard of living of ordinary people cannot be improved without large modern industries based mostly on the historical experience of the west taken out of context. They tend to forget that England took some 100 years (1780-1880 approximately), and a similar time scale was involved for other western countries. During this period people had hardly any democratic rights based on universal adult suffrage. The same applies even to later experiences like South Korea, China, etc, which are transforming faster. In contrast, India is a poor country where people have democratic rights, though the institutions that are necessary to secure those rights malfunction. It is essential to strengthen and expand these rights, especially for the poor; instead they are being violated continuously, most visibly through land acquisition by the State with- out their consent. The role of gram sabhas is not recognised, nor is the legal process fully and fairly followed. It is not just land but habitat after habitat, even generation's old, common property resources, such as water bodies as also tree and forest cover, that is snatched away, resulting in the poor being deprived of their livelihoods and uprooted from their socio-cultural milieu. Compensation of all this loss with acceptable alternative livelihoods and a share in the benefit, rarely come true for decades, even generations. People resist the resultant trauma and fight for survival with right to life and livelihood within our constitutional framework. We support these resistances against land acquisition *without people's consent*, we ask for a referendum of the people involved, proper rehabilitation and resettlement to correct the wrong headed policies of successive governments irrespective of the colour of the government that indulges in it. The effect of taking the people's view on land acquisition would directly influence the pattern of industrialisation, making it non-displacing or least displacing and truly employment generating, i e, benefiting the local communities who would be the investors of land and all natural resources as against the others who invest non-productive monetary resources. Moreover, this would also strengthen the democratic rights and participatory role of the people in planning development and community management. *2 Immediate Gainers and Permanent Losers* It must be recognised that the benefits of industrialisation come unacceptably slowly to the poor, because creation of jobs in industry proceeds at a slow pace due to mechanisation and rationalisation of production in large industries. Labour transfer from agriculture to industry is a slow process, and in India the contribution of agriculture to gross domestic product has been falling dramatically, but the percentage of population in agriculture has been falling extremely slowly. As a result government policies have turned agriculture and much of the informal services into a refuse sector where the poor are imprisoned in sub-human poverty without a reasonable chance of escape into the industrial or formal service sector. Despite so much hype about nearly double digit growth, regular employment in the organised sector grew at about 1%, according to the government's own admission in the *Economic Survey*. Private sector employment growth did not even compensate for the jobs lost in the public sector. The two supposedly industrially dynamic states with large direct foreign investment, Gujarat and Maharashtra were among the incredibly slower growing states in terms of employment (NSS 61st round; also, *The* *Times of India*, 7 July 2008). Nevertheless, this is not the entire story, perhaps not even the most important part of the story. The whole organised sector to which the corporate sector belongs, accounts for less than one-tenth of the labour force. Contribution by the unorganised sector, which includes most of agriculture, comes from lengthening the hours of work to a significant extent, as this sector has no labour laws worth the name, or social security to protect workers. Subcontracting to the unorganised sector along with "casualisation" of labour on a large scale become convenient devices to ensure longer hours of work without higher pay. Self-employed workers, totalling 260 million, expanded the fastest during the high growth regime, providing an invisible source of output growth. Ruthless self-exploitation by many of these workers in a desperate attempt to survive by doing long hours of work with very little extra earning adds both to corporate profit, and to human misery. Government policies of fiscal austerity embodied in the Fiscal Responsibility and Budget Management (FRBM) Act of 2003 largely to keep the stock market, the foreign investors, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) happy meant stagnation of public spending as a proportion of GDP on education and health, and denial of minimum social security to the poor in almost all unorganised industry. The time scale involved before the poor people in this country can benefit from industrialisation by moving into industrial jobs is too long. It involves several generations that would have lost their land, livelihood and home in the meantime. How would they survive, how would their children face eventually the industrialising and globalising world without education, health and without a community to impart social values? To sacrifice the weakest members of several successive generations in the name of development is unacceptable and incompatible with basic democratic values and economic goals of equity. This utterly unjust and undemocratic route is also unsustainable in the longer run, as democratically elected government would lose its legitimacy in the eyes of the people if it should take recourse to State-sponsored violence to contain the despair and fury of the people. The symptoms are already unmistakable – movements in the name of caste, religion, regionalism, language, and the class anger of the dispossessed poor. They tend to divide us in numerous ways, and the wrong anti-people path of industrialisation has been a major contributory factor. We therefore have to struggle for more public action, more funding for health, education and social security for the poor, to force governments to abandon the false path of anti-poor policies in the name of "sound finance". Sound finance must be targeted at diverting resources from unnecessary external and internal defence expenditure, less money spent on government pomp and splendour. This can be achieved by opposing all divisive policies in the name of religion, caste, regionalism, by working systematically for the poor, not by trying to fight terrorism of all sorts with blind military might, and accepting the legitimate demands of various communities through negotiations. The Indian federal structure should be flexible enough to accommodate economically and politically different degrees of autonomy for different regions to reflect popular demand. 3 *Corporates versus People* Until the recent financial crisis, it was an oft-repeated cliché that the capitalist market economy is good at creating wealth, but bad at distributing it, while for socialism it is the other way round. Such a wisecrack avoids facing the real problem. It is overlooked that how wealth is created determines to a very large extent how it is distributed. Ideas such as: create wealth by promoting corporations, and then distribute it through state action like high taxes, or through corporate social responsibility are wishful thinking, and avoid the real issue. If the state wants corporations to create wealth, it also has to provide them with the incentive to control and enjoy that wealth. Corporations would not create wealth simply to distribute it, except perhaps a minor fraction in some instances! Therefore we have to oppose corporate-led industrialisation, which bestows control to the corporations as the wrong track for improving the living standards of the people; instead a way has to be found by which wealth created mostly by the people would have an in-built mechanism for distribution in their favour without depending on a top- heavy bureaucracy. This alternative way of industrialising would involve the poor, mostly uneducated and illiterate people as a propelling force for the creation and distribution of wealth. This involves (a) their participation through moving towards productive full employment in the shortest possible time, and (b) not destroying existing livelihoods without the people's consent and providing them with alternative livelihoods, which, in the present context, means that industry must come up on vacant/uncultivable land. Economic growth would be the outcome of this strategy, rather than employment and other benefits being the "trickle down" outcome of growth. This is a fundamental difference between our and the official economic perspective in the formulation of Indian economic policies. 4 *The alternative* The alternative we envisage essentially requires starting at economically the most vulnerable points in our poor country with poor, unskilled people rather than rejecting them as useless for achieving high growth as is happening now under liberalisation, privatisation and globalisation pursued by the present government (right now in a denial mood due to the financial crisis and forthcoming elections). Most of our poor are in rural areas unable to make a living, and can earn enough in exchange of productive work that builds up social wealth. This is where we have to start by extending the employment guarantee scheme everywhere, in urban as well as in rural areas at a minimum legally stipulated wage for 300 days a year. This must be done immediately in areas of special need due to catastrophes, like the Kosi area, and areas of abysmal poverty even by Indian standard, like Kandhamal in Orissa. No large difference between rural and urban wages should be allowed so that cities do not gain at the cost of impoverished villages. Jobs should be available on demand, and would be largely self-selecting without bureaucratic red tape because, if honestly implemented, only the very poor with no other reasonable source of income would opt for it. It can also be seasonally adjusted. The barrier to this policy is mainly twofold. First, it cannot be implemented effectively because bureaucratic mechanisms are inadequate for ascertaining that the deserving poor benefit, and productive work is offered to improve living conditions rapidly in rural areas. A precondition for this to happen is decentralisation of power to the lowest level of elected local government in the spirit of the panchayati raj, not through mere political pronouncements without intention. Neither the centre nor the states have been enthusiastic about giving complete autonomy of decision-making and even less financial autonomy to the local governments. Yet without these measures no large-scale productive employment generation programme, which would benefit local communities under their own responsibility, can have any reasonable chance of success. However, decentralisation is necessary but not sufficient; all movements of the people must support it in the teeth of opposition of the vested interest of politicians at higher levels (MLAs, MPs), higher bureaucracy (the Indian Administrative Service, the state bureaucracy), so-called economic and developmental experts housed by organisations like the IMF, the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank (ADB) working in unison with the Indian government, and hostile media-persons who pretend to know. The simple guiding principle should be, "those who hope to benefit from these local projects must take the responsibility of their decisions". They would gradually bear an increasing proportion of the cost from local efforts as they become financially stronger. An essential legal first step is to actualise the 73rd amendment with the help of Article 243 of the Constitution. The legal framework is mostly in place, and only an irresistible people's demand will make it a reality. *Cost of Programme* The cost of such a programme works out, at the most, approximately to 6 to 7% of GDP. This we must afford as the highest priority. There is no point in pretending to be an emerging superpower with nearly half of our population in extreme poverty without minimum healthcare, sanitation, nutrition, and education, with the largest number of illiterate and undernourished children, many crippled by malnutrition. Is this the preparation for entering the much talked about opportunities of globalisation by our pro-liberalisation, pro-reform politicians? We can do better by (a) reallocating government expenditure and by cutting down public expenditure by politicians, which also has a symbolic value, (b) by raising taxes on the rich and on corporate profits rather than indirect taxes on the poor, and expanding the tax base, introducing a substantial tax on speculative cross-border financial transactions, especially in the light of the recent financial crisis, instead of pleasing the rich/middle class and the IMF-World Bank-ADB with capital account convertibility, more foreign investment, etc, as essential for growth, and finally, (c) increasing the central government budget deficit as and when necessary to finance this programme by doing away with the FRBM Act. The money for this programme would be held in a separate account with the nationalised banks and a credit line would have to be provided to the local governments/panchayats without interference from the central and state governments. The mechanism for supervision would be mutual check and balance between banks and the panchayats, where successful projects would be rewarded with more funds at the next round for the implementing panchayat and bonus for the local branch of the bank, and penalty would be a gradual reduction of funds and no promotions for the concerned bank employees. The criteria for success and failure would have to be agreed between the two parties depending on the nature of the project beforehand. One important element in this context, especially relevant for the poor, would be the social component wage, e g, the first right to access/use to the local school, primary health centre, watershed, and/or warehouse facility which the local labourers under the employment guarantee scheme help in building. This is also the way to improve the "delivery system" to the poor. The current way of handling it by privatising is vicious; it simply prices out the poor from the essential services, which is their right as citizens of this country. We support a system of delivery based on local initiative to meet local needs with local accountability and responsibility to the maximum extent possible. In this way we can produce a large range of goods and services for the local market created through purchasing power generated locally in the hands of the poor and used by the poor for local exchanges to suit their needs. Only through this route they would enter the larger economy with their full economic rights as both producers and consumers. This means emphasising the domestic market as the centre of economic policy. Globalisation, trade liberalisation, etc, insofar as they shift the relative emphasis from the internal to the external market and the market meant exclusively for the richer section of the population, are counter-productive. Therefore we are opposed to the policies of gung-ho liberalisers, foreign investment or globalisation seekers. At this stage of Indian economic evolution, the priorities of our industrialisation and growth must be different from what governments of various colours seem to want. We want them to see reason and change track, and would continue to fight for it. The current crisis would have served an unintended historical purpose if it forces the government to emphasise the importance of developing the internal market for the poor. 5 *Composition of output, and the environment* There is a misconception that we are impractical romantics, only interested in persevering the old world and the environment. This is untrue; we are interested in people, especially people who have almost nothing today and are continuously threatened with even losing the little they have. The composition of our GDP must change. It should be produced by the majority for their own use, while playing their rightful dual role as consumers and producers. The composition of output, produced in this manner at the local level would require less energy; no big dam would be needed to provide electricity nor would expensive and dangerous nuclear power be required; production in general would become much less intensive in its use of natural resources like land, water, forest and mineral products. To reduce the pace of mindless urbanisation and day dreams of world class cities that suck in enormous natural resources for a handful of rich people by destroying the livelihoods of the poor is a related task which only this alternative pattern of industrialisation focusing on local initiatives in rural areas can achieve. Saving and improving, through popular initiative, common resources of forests, rivers and the sea coast, cultivable land for the peasantry and those who now make a livelihood from related agricultural activities are the way forward for sustainable development without the state practising developmental terrorism on the poor. We have to fight for all this here and now to save ourselves, and the generations to come From anoopkheri at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 15:16:35 2009 From: anoopkheri at gmail.com (anoop kumar) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:16:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (14 Jan) A Talk on 'The Biopolitics of Caste' by Anupama Rao @ CWDS, Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Centre for Women's Development Studies Invites you for a Talk on The Biopolitics of Caste * by* * Dr. Anupama Rao* (Assistant Professor, Barnard College, Columbia University) * * Date and Time: *January 14, 2009, 3.00 P.M.* Venue : Seminar Hall, Centre for Women's Development Studies (*About the Speaker*: Anupama Rao is trained as an anthropologist and historian, and teaches at Barnard College, Columbia University. She is the author of* 'The Caste Question: Dalits and Politics in Modern India' *(University of California Press, forthcoming); contributing editor of* 'Discipline and the Other Body: Correction, Corporeality and Colonialism' (Duke University Press, 2006), as well as *'Gender and Caste'* (Kali for Women, 2003, *and the author of numerous publications, including '*Death of a Kotwal: Injury and the Politics of Recognition*', Subaltern Studies XII*). * ________________________________________________________________________ R.S.V.P: Centre for Women's Development Studies, 25 Bhai Vir Singh Marg, Near Gole Market, New Delhi –1, Tel. 23345530, 23365541; Fax: 23346044, E: Mail: cwds at vsnl.com, cwds at cwds.org. -- " The so called caste-hindus are bitterly opposed to the depressed class using a public tank not because they really believe that the water will be thereby spoiled or will evaporate but because they are afraid of losing their superiority of caste and of equality being established between the former and the latter. We are resorting to this satyagraha not becasue we believe that the water of this particular tank has any exceptional qualities, but to establish our natural rights as citizens and human beings." - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 From kiccovich at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 16:26:55 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:56:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] FW: [ePalestine] No Other Option?! (By Sam Bahour) Message-ID: <209900.98742.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No Other Option?! By Sam Bahour  I watch in shock, like the rest of the world, at the appalling death and destruction being wrought on Gaza by Israel; and still it does not stop. Meanwhile, we see a seemingly never- ending army of well-prepared Israeli war propagandists, some Israeli government officials, and many other people self-enlisted for the purpose, explaining to the world the justifications for pulverizing the Gaza Strip, with its 1.5 million inhabitants. Curious about how Israel, or any society for that matter, could justify a crime of such magnitude against humanity, I turned to my Jewish Israeli friends today to hear their take on things.  One after another, the theme was the same. The vast majority of Jewish Israelis has apparently bought into the state- sponsored line that Israel was under attack and had no other option available to stop Hamas’ rockets.  More frightening is the revelation that many Israelis—including one person who self- identifies as a "leftist"—are speaking of accepting the killing of 100,000 or more Palestinians, if need be.   I have a problem with this logic.  I am a Palestinian American based in Al-Bireh, the sister city of Ramallah in the West Bank. I can see how an observer from abroad could be blind to the facts, given the blitz of Gaza war propaganda orchestrated by the Israeli military.  But I know better. Like all other Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, I am not an observer from abroad.  We live every day under the bitter burden of Israeli military occupation and we know that this question, presented as rhetorical—did we really have an option? —has a rational answer. Allow me, from my vantage point as an economic development professional, to touch on some of the other options that could have been chosen.  Moreover, many of them will be forced on Israel anyway, sooner or later, whether after the next “war,” or in the coming days under the ceasefire agreement and the Egyptian-sponsored implementation mechanism being discussed as I write this. Meaning: all this death and destruction could have been easily avoided.  Dear Israeli citizen, short of ending the occupation, you could have:  1.         Opted to agree on how to disagree: There are two bodies of law that deal with international relations in this world, International Law and the Law of the Jungle.  Until today, your government—and maybe you—refuse to accept the global consensus that the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem, are all militarily occupied territory.  The occupying power is Israel—as attested in dozens of United Nations resolutions over the past four decades.  By ignoring this fact that Israel is an occupying power, thus removing (unsuccessfully, of course) any internationally recognized baseline for the conflict, you have created an environment that can only be described as the “Law of the Jungle,” where might is right and where, as we see in Gaza now, anything goes. You could have accepted international humanitarian law, as stipulated in the Fourth Geneva Conventions regulating occupations, and avoided many of the seemingly impossible positions you find yourself in today: from the albatross of the settlement enterprise to the reality of missile attacks from the Gaza Strip.  2.         Opted to allow for an international presence in the occupied territory: For over 30 years – yes, 30 years! – the Palestinians have begged the international community to create and maintain a serious presence in the occupied territory, something to stand between us and protect the civilians on both sides.  Israel repeatedly refused to consider this.  Instead your government chose to deal with the Palestinian territory as if it was its own, always behaving in line with its meta-objective: getting a maximum of Palestinian geography with a minimum of Palestinian demography. You could have avoided dealing directly with the natural reaction of any occupied people to resist their occupation, by allowing international players to get involved and serve as a sort of referee between you and those you are occupying militarily.  3.         Opted to accept lawful non-violent resistance to your occupation:  For over 40 years, Palestinians have tried everything to remove the Israeli boot of occupation from our necks (all documented, for anyone interested enough to do the research): tax revolts, general strikes, civil disobedience, economic development, elections, and on and on.  Your response every time was to rely on violence, on control; your message was that you respect nothing other than your own desires.  Your children on the front line in Gaza may be too young to recall, but you might remind them, so that they will at least be informed as they march ahead to your drummers: Let them know you deported duly elected mayors back in the 1980s; let them know that you closed down entire Palestinian universities for years on end; let them know that you have imprisoned over 650,000 Palestinians since your occupation began, creating a virtual prison university for the resistance movement and stunning any possibility for a new leadership to arise; let them know that even after Oslo you prohibit, to this day, Palestinians from building fully independent utilities—not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank as well.  You could have tried a little harder to understand that people under occupation do not throw flowers and rice at their occupiers and resolve to surrender to a slow death.   4.         Opted to accept the results of Palestinian democracy:  For Palestinians, and believe it or not Israelis too, the best thing that happened in the recent past was when Hamas was chosen in peaceful elections to take over the governance of Palestine.   Prior to those elections, where was Hamas?  They were in their underground bunkers carrying out atrocities that were disrupting your daily agenda—and mine—with absolutely no accountability whatsoever.  When they accepted the Oslo process and ran for office and were duly elected, they stopped, for all intent and purpose, attacking inside Israel (by which I mean, inside the Green Line). Your citizens become significantly safer! Your government (and the U.S.) responded by refusing to accept the results of our elections and imposed sanctions on the elected Palestinian government. This was long before any violent infighting took place in Gaza between Hamas and Fatah.  How did the Palestinians react to your intransigence?  They pressed Hamas to replace its Hamas-only government with a unity government that had all the significant Palestinian political factions represented. You were thus presented with an accountable body that encompassed all Palestinian political flavors. Your government again responded by refusing to accept the results of our elections and continued with sanctions against the Palestinian government, repeating over and over the mantra that “there is no partner.”  Beyond that, the Israeli government intensified its campaign of assassinating and arresting Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and introduced a whole new range of draconian punitive measures against the Palestinian public at large. Like what, you ask? Well, one such measure was that your government began blocking foreign nationals—people like me—from entering or doing business in the occupied territory, thus hindering any real chance to create a new, forward-looking reality.  You could have accepted Palestinian democracy instead of propping up your own version of a failed Palestinian leadership.  5.         Opted not to interfere in Palestinian internal politics: When Hamas violently struck at Fatah in Gaza—for reasons that have been well documented elsewhere—your government chose to punish all 1.5 million Palestinians by installing a hermetic seal on Gaza and allowing only a trickle of normal traffic to go in or out, meeting only a small fraction of Gaza's needs. Lest you suspect me of indulging in empty clichés, I shall explain.  International agencies have estimated that Gaza’s daily basic needs amount to 450 truckloads a day.  For 18 months prior to your aggression on Gaza, your government allowed 70 truckloads a day on average. Yes, seventy!  And these were allowed to enter only when the border crossings that you control were open, which was only 30% of the time.  You could have chosen not to use food, medicine, education, cement, water, electricity, and so forth, as tools of repression.  If you saw yourselves accurately as the occupying power you are, you could have kept in place a lawful security regime on the borders without creating a humanitarian disaster which led to irrational acts (such as missiles being lobbed over the border) by those you tried to starve into submission.  You could have made a firm distinction between your political desires and your humanitarian obligations as an occupying power.  This list could go on and on.  The fact of the matter is that you had a long list of options open to you! So many, indeed, that it boggles the mind that your government has apparently been able to blind you to all of them…so that today, as the bombs shriek over Gaza, you can say, and evidently sincerely mean it: We had no other option.  Nevertheless, even with all these options effectively invisible to you, there is nothing on this earth—not law, not politics, not even a desperate and lengthy campaign of rockets creating widespread fear and even some civilian deaths on your side of the border—there is nothing that can justify, by Israel or any other country on this earth, the decision to opt for a crime against humanity as your chosen response. Nothing!  You accepted your government’s path to separate unilaterally from occupied Palestinians; you accepted an illegal barrier to be built on confiscated Palestinian lands; you accepted a unilateral disengagement that simply redeployed your occupation from the heart of Gaza to its perimeter, on land and sea and in the air, rather than actually removing it; you accepted the continuing expansion of your settlements and their systematic harassment of their Palestinian neighbors while talking peace; you accepted, and sadly continue to accept, a consensual blindness to the fact that the majority of Palestinians live as refugees, far from your occupation (practically, not geographically), and feel much more rage than you have lately been creating in the Gaza Strip.  I urge you to stop acquiescing in this policy of managed unreality. I urge you to open your eyes and wake up. If not for our sake, then for your own.   You may not see us over the Separation Wall you built; you may not see us from the cockpits of your F-16s or from the inside of your tanks; you may not see us from the command and control center in the heart of Tel Aviv as you direct your pilots to launch their ton of munitions over our heads. Still, I can assure you of one thing. Until you wake up and demand that your leaders choose a different path, a path toward a life as equals and neighbors instead of trampler-on and trampled-on, you and your warrior sons and daughters will continue to see us—all of us, living and dead—in your nightmares, where we will continue to demand peace with justice.  Sam Bahour is a management consultant and entrepreneur living in Ramallah; he is co-editor of “Homeland: Oral History of Palestine and Palestinians,” and blogs at epalestine.blogspot.com.  From anansi1 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 12 21:04:18 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:34:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] An SMS from Gaza Message-ID: <21541040.1231774459179.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Forward: Subject: [euromed-youth] The Horror Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 12:03 PM SOS/SMS from Gaza hello, received this via email: Yesterday, the 3th of January the Norwegian physician Dr. Mads Gilbert of Norwac, a Norwegian Triage medical team, who is one of the few doctors admitted into the Gaza strip sent out an SMS (text message from his cell phone) to friends and acquaintences home in Norway with a plea for the message to be spread by its recipients. Because no journalists are allowed into Gaza the doctors have an unusual but vital double role as reporters as well as physicians. This is not a political message, not pro-Palestinian or anti-Israeli message. It is a plea that needless and excessive use of military force must stop, that aid-workers, medicine and food must be allowed into the territory. It is a humanitarian message. Here is a translation of the message from Mads Gilbert. "They bombed the central vegetable market in Gaza City two hours ago. 80 wounded, 20 killed, all came here to Shifa Hades [hospital]! We are wading in death, blood, and amputees. Many children. A pregnant woman. I have never experienced anything so terrible. Now we hear tanks. Pass it on, send it around, shout it out. Anything. DO SOMETHING! DO MORE! We are living in a history book now, all of us. Mads G. 3.1.09 1:50PM, Gaza" From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 00:19:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:19:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan (and all) I have gone through the website, though I must admit not as fully as I wanted to for lack of time. But there are certain observations I would like to make here, after having gone through the website. First of all, there have been allegations of discrimination being made against the Jammu and the Ladakh region, in terms of development. There must be substantial truths in this I agree. There is also an element of Kashmir appeasement involved in it, for when the delimitation process was being conducted in 2001, the then Central Government (ironically, the NDA Govt. headed by the BJP, the most Right-wing party in India) refused to allow this process to be conducted in J & K. If this process would have been conducted, Jammu would have had more seats in Assembly elections 2002 and 2008, than Kashmir had. What's more, this policy was continued with by the UPA Govt. Therefore, on this issue, I don't know, who is the bigger appeaser, the NDA (headed by the BJP) or the UPA (headed by the Congress). Moreover, this practice was completely wrong, as it's against the basic tenets of democratic systems and practices introduced and followed by the Election Commission in India, regarding fair demarcation of constituencies. Having said that, the most interesting thing is that Kashmiri Pandits have been asking for development of Jammu. If I am not wrong, since they are Kashmiri Pandits, they must have been living in Kashmir Valley and not Jammu. By all means, the discrimination against Jammu must be portrayed. But I cannot understand how can the Kashmiri Pandits, or anybody speaking for them, say that the discrimination against Jammu is discrimination against the Pandits? This is beyond my understanding. I have no objections with Pandits fighting for Jammu's rights, and I can support it. But is it a discrimination against them, even before 1989, when they were living in the Valley? And if they feel more for Jammu than for the Valley, I don't think Kashmiri Muslims would have had any trust in them when they were thinking of azadi. That however does not mean that those Muslims had any right to go about doing rapes and abettin violence. They should and must be punished for that. Secondly, just having proper food and clothing doesn't mean people will live peacefully. Today, Gujarat riot victims would also be living peacefully probably in some places, but does that mean they don't want the abetters of violence to be punished? Wrong. If the Kashmiri Pandits, those for whom the situation has improved since 1989 so much so that they are economically and even politically well off, are asking for justice, can't the Kashmiri Muslims ask for justice regarding the 1987 elections, and also for the human right violations being committed on them. I agree that the armed forces are living in a region of high insecurity, but does that mean they have the right to carry out fake encounters and rapes of women, in the name of protecting India's borders? Mind you, they have the right to self-defence. Thirdly, the demand for Panun Homeland, is somewhat similar to the demand made by the RSS that the entire state should be partitioned into three regions, namely, Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh. But there can be many objections raised on the basis of this. First of all, I would like to know whether this designated Homeland is only for Pandits. Can't other Hindu communities live in this place? Can't people from other religions, be it Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Buddhists live in this homeland? Is it the idea that this homeland will be exclusively for Pandits only? If that is the case, then I think it's the worst precedent which can be set up in this very country. Already, we are having the problem between Maharashtra and UP-Bihar based people, and this will lead to further tensions. Let me be clear on this account. People have to migrate to other places, and even live there, as they want to take up some occupation. Moreover, a territory in India has never been formed on the basis of a religious, community-based or a secretarian identity. Even the Valley has not been formed a state of its own, simply because of this. Hence, the asking of such a kind of homeland, is a threat to the idea on which the Constitution of India is based. Secondly, from a nationalist perspective. Since the Kashmiri Pandits are calling themselves as patriots, but their rhetoric or arguments have been based on what I think are nationalist perspective, they do deserve an answer from this point as well. The formation of a separate homeland for them, will certainly trigger off a demand for the partition of the state into three regions. Doing so, will mean that Kashmir is actually a separate entity. This will indirectly mean that India has accepted Jinnah's proposition that Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations. And if that is the case, then there is no use of the Indian Nation declaring Kashmir to be an integral part of India. We may as well gift it to Pakistan. The Indian nation formed the state to show to Pakistan and the world, that the three regions, inspite of their diversity, can co-exist together. The elections to the State Assembly of 2008 have also been used to show the same. Ironically, the Pandits, who call themselves the sons of India and true Indians, have now decided to take up a cause which is actually RSS supported, but which could very well create this divide. By the way, I have not formed all this conclusion of nationalist perspective by myself. It is something government officials and defence officials have spoken about in private, or one should say, anonymously to media time and again. And this is why even under the NDA government, though RSS supported the tri-partite state to be formed, BJP didn't even ask its allies for it, although I don't think anybody would have opposed it actually. They never even mentioned it during 2002 elections of Jammu and Kashmir. For those who think they can't speak their ideological voice during coalition rule, better refer to Modi mania during 2002 Gujarat elections. There are many issues raised in the website. And I think I will require a time for 2-3 days to answer all those. But I think I have put forth my views properly. I will just add a few more things I wish would happen in that state: a) First of all, delimitation must be carried out in the state. If Jammu deserves more seats (which it seems based on 2001 census), then it should be given more seats. b) If Pandits have not been rehabilitated, efforts must be made to done so. But Pandits must also realize that demands should be justified based on rational grounds. At the moment, the demand for a homeland is not even justified based on nationalist grounds. c) I don't understand their logic for making it a union territory. Is it to ensure that since Muslims are in a majority in the state, and the Pandits fear them, so a union territory can ensure Pandit's influence and not the Muslims'? d) Any violence, unleashed by either the Kashmiri Muslims (during 1989, which led to displacement of Pandits), unleashed by the security forces (in the form of human right violations and daily security checks), or by the foreign terrorists (Pakistanis, Afghanis, Saudi Arabis or what not as portrayed by both Pandits and the Indian security establishment) is totally wrong. All those responsible for it, whatever may be their ideology and justification for causing violence, must be punished and made an example of, so that nobody practices violence. I must say that the Jammu agitation on Amarnath, and the Kashmir agitation in response to it, have provided a shining example in one sense. After a long time, both regions experienced peaceful and non-violent agitations. I don't have problem with people agitating against the establishment, for that is what India is and it will be, but it should be non-violent. Of course, stray incidents of violence did take place, but one can take heart out of it. Full marks to people of both regions for having followed that course. And hope they continue to do so, and we all can learn from it. I promise to answer back on some other issues as well after fully reading it. Hope to get your response. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 13 01:38:55 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:08:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-59 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901121208m761d90f8gb09ab0a2af07b4fe@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200804241322.htm The Hindu Thursday, April 24, 2008 *Patil for quicker compiling of census data* New Delhi (PTI): With release of census data taking four to eight years from the date of completion of the exercise, Home Minister Shivraj Patil on Thursday said efforts should be made to complete the task in two to three years. "It should be our endeavour to squeeze the time further and complete the release of 2011 data in maximum two to three years from the date of completion of census," he said opening the two-day Data Users' Conference for Census 2011. He said this could be possible with use of technology not only at the stage of data capture and data processing, but even for pre-census planning and actual census taking. Patil pointed out that after the 1991 census, it took eight years to release the data while after the 2001 census, it took four to five years. With the population of the country expected to be nearly 1.20 billion by 2011, he described as phenomenal the task of taking count of such a large population across the length and breadth of the country. He said that looking to the wide ranging utility of the data, it was essential that census count was both complete and accurate. "There is no retake in the census and it has to be right the first time," he said. The Home Minister said a committee headed by the Registrar General of India has been set up for strictly enforcing accountability of those involved in census taking. "This is vital to make the census data authentic and unquestionable," he said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 13 01:40:28 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:10:28 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-60 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901121210r196ac25el3c45964d0253f2d1@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Census_2011_Emphasis_on_migrants_residence/articleshow/2980968.cms The Economic Times Census 2011: Emphasis on migrants' residence 25 Apr 2008, NEW DELHI: Census 2011 may not only be quicker with the government aiming to cut down the gap between completion of census and release of data from 4-5 years to 2-3 years, but could also present a more accurate demographic picture by enumerating temporary migrants at their usual residence rather than actual residence at the time of enumeration. It be recalled that during the recent delimitation exercise for the country, doubts were raised regarding the accuracy of the population count taken in the 2001 census, in certain states. In his inaugural address at the data users conference for Census 2011 that began here on Thursday, Union home minister Shivraj Patil attributed the mismatch between Census count and the actual population on the Census methodology. "The Census in the country is conducted on a de-facto method and not de-jure method. As a result, the population is counted wherever they are found to be living during the three weeks of census taking...but with increasing mobility, this approach has a limitation of giving lower count of the state, district and area from where the population may have migrated..." Mr Patil pointed out. Even as the minister called for a method that allocates such temporary migrants to the state, district or area where they belong, the Census authorities — the Registrar General of India — have proposed a combination of the de-facto and de-jure methods for the 2011 census, wherein temporary migrants will be counted at their usual residence, defined as households where they have stayed for most part of the 12 months preceding the enumeration period. Mr Patil, in his address, also called for quicker release of Census data with the help of newer technologies not only at the stage of data capture and data processing, but even for pre-Census planning and actual Census taking. "It should be our endeavour hereafter, to squeeze the time further and complete the release of 2011 data in 2-3 years from the date of completion of the Census," he stated. With the population of the country expected to be nearly 1.20 billion by 2011, it would take over 2 million enumerators to conduct the upcoming Census-taking exercise, to be spread over a period of 4 weeks from February 2-28, 2011, followed by a revision round from March 1 to 5. According to Mr Patil, the 2011 Census was poised to become a challenge because the government was contemplating to use the opportunity to dovetail the preparation of National Population Register (NPR) with it. The data in the NPR will have specified characteristics of each individual along with the photograph and finger biometrics which will be added subsequent to the Census, he said adding that the government was planning to set up an authority for handling and management of the database. The RGI, while releasing three sets of data for Census 2001 at the conference, observed that not only was the age at marriage well beyond the legal age, averaging at 22.6 years for males and 18.3 for females, but life expectancy was also up by 0.3 years. As for work participation rate, the overall figure was 39.1 (51.7 for males and 25.6 for females), with only 3.5% of the population in the age group 15-34 found to be non-working. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 13 01:41:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:11:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-61 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901121211h28b29a2frf7c569acee831d73@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/25/stories/2008042555861400.htm The Hindu Friday, Apr 25, 2008 *Population to touch 1.20 billion by 2011 * Special Correspondent * National register planned, it may usher in an era of register-based census * ------------------------------ * Data users' conference for 2011 Census held Need to use technology stressed upon * ------------------------------ NEW DELHI: Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil on Thursday said the endeavour of the census organisation should be to release the scheduled 2011 census data within two to three years from the date of completion of census. "Results of the 2001 census were released in less than five years as against eight years in the 1991 census," he said while stressing on the need to use technology at every possible stage of the census planning and operations. The Minister was inaugurating a two-day data users' conference for the 2011 Census, organised by the Registrar General and Census Commission. He pointed out that the population was expected to reach 1.20 billion by 2011. Mr. Patil said that after the successful completion of the pilot project on national identity card, the government was planning preparation of the National Population Register (NPR) with the 2011 census. Data in the register will have specified characteristics of each individual and the photograph and finger biometrics would be added subsequently to the census. Real time basis He said the creation of NPR might usher in an era of register-based census. It would help in future to have the estimates of population on a real time basis by combining it with the system of registration of births and deaths. Union Home Secretary Madhukar Gupta said the cost of the 2001 census was Rs. 1,403 crore which came to Rs.14 per person. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 13 01:43:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:13:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-62 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901121213j6a0b082djd2c1db017baf480a@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Delhi/Multi-purpose_smart_cards_arrive/articleshow/2070343.cms The Times of India Multi-purpose smart cards arrive 24 May 2007, 0127 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN NEW DELHI: The Centre has chosen Narela in north Delhi to kick-start the distribution of the much-awaited multi-purpose national identity cards (MNIC) in the country. Residents of the area will be handed these microprocessor-based cards on Saturday. Nearly 30 lakh people of 11 states and two union territories will get the smart cards, which contain as many as 16 personal details of an individual along with a unique national identity number, within a month. The entire population of the country will be covered by 2012. "These identity cards — based on a sophisticated application called SCOSTA — are basically secured electronic devices that are used for keeping data and other information in such a way that only authorised users are permitted to see or write the data," said a senior home ministry official. Besides comprising name, sex, permanent and present residential addresses, marital status, place of birth, names of spouse (if ever married) and photograph, the card will also have 'finger biometrics' and 'visible identification mark' of an individual. The recordswill be kept as a part of National Register of Indian Citizens (NRIC). The register will be continuously updated by linking it to the compulsory registration of births and deaths. The official said: "Once the entire population will be covered, there will not be a need to even issue separate voters identity cards as the MNIC can also be used as identification in elections. Besides being used as a credible individual identification system, the smart cards will also act as a major deterrent for future illegal immigrants." Under the existing plan, the citizens will not need to have separate ration card or even driving licence after procuring the smart cards as the computerised chips used in the MNIC will have enough space to fit in all such information as and when required. Though the pilot project to provide MNICs to citizens was laun-ched in 2003, it eventually took the government nearly four years to deliver the first card under the scheme. The registrar general and census commissioners D K Sikri will launch the card delivery operation by handing over hundreds of cards to villagers of Pooth Khurd (Narela) in northwest Delhi on Saturday. Others who will get their cards within a month of the operation beginning Saturday are from Karimganj in Assam, Kathua in Jammu and Kashmir, Kutch in Gujarat, Jaisalmer in Rajasthan, Pithoragarh in Uttrakhand, Maharajganj in Uttar Pradesh, West Tripura in Tripura, Murshidabad in West Bengal, north district in Goa, Medak in Andhra Pradesh, Ramanathapuram in Tamil Nadu, Northwest district in Delhi and Puducherry district in Puducherry. Officials attributed the delay to some problem faced by officials in Assam where it took long time for them to conduct 'citizenship status verification drive' due to problem of illegal immigration. "The pilot project in 13 districts across the country was first envisaged to be completed by 2004 and subsequently by December 2005, but it took more time due to delay in verification exercise," said the official. Though other states had overcome the teething problem quickly, Assam had become a main obstacle where the officials appeared to be reluctant in conducting the drive due to local resistance. vishwa.mohan at timesgroup.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 13 01:45:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:15:59 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-63 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901121215g67d6006ft7b46e8ed2c3fde56@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Indians_may_have_a_unique_identification_number/articleshow/2575017.cms The Economic Times Indians may have a unique identification number 27 Nov 2007, 1443 hrs IST, Rajeev Jayaswal, TNN NEW DELHI: Indian citizens may have a unique identification (UID) number soon. The government may issue an executive order to introduce a unique number for citizens that could be used for a wide range of activities including social benefit programmes, security-related applications, employment, targeted subsidies and financial transactions. According to official sources, "UID should be in place by June 2008 for effective targeting and implementation of government schemes." The UID programme is being undertaken by the department of information technology (DIT) under the direction of the Planning Commission. Another purpose of the scheme is immigration control in a phased manner. The government also intends to ensure that citizens are not harassed during its implementation. While giving an in-principle approval, the prime minister's office (PMO) has instructed that "the scheme should be devised in such a manner that the responsibility of keeping records, maintaining data banks and verifying the authenticity of individual beneficiaries would be primarily that of the state and not of the beneficiary", an official source said. It is also likely the UID scheme would be combined with an existing scheme, multipurpose national identity card project (MNIC), a similar pilot programme launched by the ministry of home affairs (MHA) in border areas. An empowered group of ministers (EGoM) has been constituted to combine the two schemes. Under MNIC, citizens of 18 years or above living in border areas are being issued smart cards. It is understood that MNIC implementation could be used in border areas for control of immigration while UID could be implemented in rest of the country. "The experience of the pilot project shows the determination of citizenship is a complex issue as it has never been questioned in the past," an official said. A committee of secretaries, while considering the proposal for preparation of national population register (NPR), concluded that the UID scheme should be implemented and the NPR should be completed by 2011. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 13 06:43:10 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:13:10 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] From Daguerreotype to Photo Shop Message-ID: <65be9bf40901121713g9e7315bq3958adeca8879a2e@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, A causal look at the photographs of friends and acquaintances posted on social networking sites suggests that we are all 'page-3' now. It seems that not much has changed when it comes to posing for a photograph, an excerpt from the essay pasted below- "It illustrates how people posing for portraits in the nineteenth century tried to convey their status, character, and modernity in pictures'. On a slightly different but related note though, the Multiple Purpose National Identity Card seek to capture the photographs of one billion Indians. These photographs will be shot in a formatted pose. Conveying just the facial characteristics of Indian Citizens. I think it would be interesting to read the essay below keeping in mind how would the composite image of -The Indian- would look like or can there be ever such an image? Regards Taha PS: Since the reader list does not allow images, I recommend that you may want to follow the link and see the visual while reading the text. http://harvardmagazine.com/2009/01/daguerreotype-photoshop From Daguerreotype to Photoshop Robin Kelsey dissects the "hybrid medium" of photography In the photograph, Henry James Jr., the future eminent novelist, is only 11 years old. He stands beside his seated father, Henry Sr., a somewhat portly, bearded man resting his hands atop a cane, an appurtenance necessitated by the wooden leg that replaced the one he lost in a fire as a boy. It is 1854, and the two Jameses are posed for a daguerreotype in the New York City studio of Mathew Brady, who several years later would make his place in history with powerful photographs of the Civil War. In Brady's placid father-son portrait, the younger James wears a military-looking jacket, its nine buttons fastened right up to the collar, and holds a wide-brimmed straw hat with a ribbon encircling the crown. The most telling detail, however, is the way the boy, who stood on a box for the picture, casually rests a forearm on his father's shoulder. "It illustrates how people posing for portraits in the nineteenth century tried to convey their status, character, and modernity in pictures," says Robin Kelsey, Loeb associate professor of the humanities. "The pose conveys the extent to which the elder James was a progressive and permissive parent—he grants his son an autonomy and authority that was quite unusual at the time. Most portraits of that era establish the father as the patriarch in no uncertain terms." Webb Chappell Robin Kelsey In his course Literature and Arts B-24, "Constructing Reality: Photography as Fact and Fiction," Kelsey teases apart scores of photographic images to reveal what they imply. The course not only treats historic and artistic photographs, but also ranges through medical and forensic photography, "spirit photographs," the photography of social reform, advertising, politics, war, law, and criminality, plus family albums, calendars, and coffee-table books. Kelsey views photography as a "hybrid medium" that is both a simple, automatic trace of reality and an intentional composition that fits the Western pictorial tradition: rectangularity, a single viewpoint, perspective, a vanishing point. "You can sit and spend time with a single photograph in a way that I find very gratifying," he says. "For me, the images reveal themselves only through long and repeated viewings." With few exceptions, scholars of art history were slow to investigate photography; instead, those in disciplines like American studies and English did the pioneering research. Recently, trained art historians like Kelsey have become deeply engaged, but it remains a small field: "We all know one another and each other's work," he says. (He and Blake Stimson, professor of art history at the University of California, Davis, edited The Meaning of Photography, which appeared this past year.) The study of photography is growing—part of a larger trend toward the study of visual material in general—though it must compete for resources at a time when many art-history departments are working to become less Eurocentric and to strengthen their African, Asian, and Latin American sub-fields, for example. The similarities between what Kelsey does with photographs and what art historians do with paintings are greatest with consciously artistic photographs, such as those of Alfred Steiglitz. Yet there are differences. "In the study of painting, one can assume, generally speaking, a high degree of intentionality behind the particulars of the work. Van Gogh used his brush just so, because he wanted the painting to look just like that," Kelsey says. "With photography, especially the instantaneous photographs using fast shutter speeds that became the norm in the twentieth century, chance plays a much larger role in creating the image." (Indeed, Kelsey's next book, due this year, is titled Photography and Chance.) "Chance undercuts your authority over the image," Kelsey notes. "One of the struggles for photographers in the twentieth century was how to rationalize chance out of the image." For example, Henri Cartier-Bresson, whose astonishing street photography revolutionized the art, argued that he could compose a picture in a fraction of a second. His 1952 book, Images à la Sauvette ("images on the run," or "stolen images"), whose English title is The Decisive Moment, epitomized this style and coined an entry for the photographic lexicon. At the other extreme, contemporary photographers like Gregory Crewdson and Jeff Wall create elaborately staged and painstakingly produced photographs that have been called "one-frame cinematic productions"—ratcheting up the authorial element by controlling every facet of the composition. Though Cartier-Bresson's instantaneous slices of life might seem to argue otherwise, Kelsey cautions that one of the dangers of interpreting photography is that "Images are taken as unproblematic reflections of reality. The object of my course is to prepare students to think more critically about the images they encounter, to be more sophisticated in their understanding of how images work, and to ask why one image, and not another, gets used." Take, for example, those melancholy Civil War photographs that depict a battlefield with a soldier's corpse in the foreground, his rifle on the ground beside him. "Any viewer in the late 1860s would have realized that no one would have left a rifle on a battlefield," says Kelsey. "Those corpses were looted for their boots, for money—and rifles were very scarce. Yet viewers weren't upset; in the nineteenth century, people seemed much less concerned with the ways in which photographs were at times staged. By the 1930s, when allegations arose that a New Deal photographer had inserted the skull of a steer into photographs of parched agricultural land to accentuate the sense of suffering, people were very disturbed. It had to do, in part, with the rise of journalism as a modern institution and a new ethical code that accompanied this." Repeatedly, Kelsey returns to the status of photographs as evidence—in convicting criminals, selling products, diagnosing diseases, or documenting atrocities. "Evidence was one of my favorite courses in law school," says the scholar, who interrupted his Harvard doctoral program in art history to attend Yale Law School and practice for two years in San Francisco. (He completed his Ph.D. in 2000, and joined the faculty in 2001.) "I very much like photography because its aesthetic values are always mingling with its evidentiary values. After more than 150 years, we are still confused by that. Our understanding of photographs as evidence cloaks their function as pictures—we tend to forget all the conventions and choices that go into the production of a photograph because it still seems a simple, direct trace of the world." In the early years of photography, amid the Industrial Revolution, "People were very concerned about the fallibility of human vision," Kelsey explains. "In a conflict between a photograph and the human eye, the machine was thought to be superior." In the 1880s, "fast" (more light-sensitive) emulsions and high-speed shutters appeared. "Suddenly, people could see images of bodies frozen in motion, and it was startling," he says. "Artists had represented people running or horses galloping in accord with certain conventions of grace and beauty. Now photographs were showing bodies in motion in a very different way, and many people found these images shocking and awkward-looking. The frozen image is not available to everyday experience. The authority of photography was such that people believed the photographs had gotten to a deeper reality." (Today, in a world in which the "snapshot aesthetic" has long since become the norm, a Sports Illustrated shot of a base runner splayed across home plate has become visually pleasing.) By the late nineteenth century, photographs were also displacing and supplementing medical illustration. "Doctors might seek out and emphasize symptoms that showed up well in photographs," Kelsey says. "In France, [neurologist Jean-Martin] Charcot used photographs extensively in his studies of hysteria. It seems clear that he interpreted hysteria in a way that made the photographs as significant as possible, emphasizing these theatrical gestures the patients made. You could analyze hysteria in terms of the utterances and sounds patients made, but Charcot stressed the visual cues." The advent of the Kodak camera in the late nineteenth century put photography in the hands of many more (and less serious) amateurs and vastly increased the number of images captured on film. (In 1888, George Eastman made up and trademarked the name "Kodak" and soon coined the slogan, "You press the button, we do the rest." At first, customers returned the entire camera, with 100 exposed film images, to Kodak for processing.) In earlier decades, nearly all portraits were formal studio shots, but "snapshots" enabled "candid" pictures. "The idea that people reveal more of themselves to the camera when they are unaware of it is more than a century old," Kelsey says. "But what we call the 'candid' photograph in our photo album is hardly a typical picture of the subject. What we put in our photo albums are idealizations. The obligation to smile for the camera is a way of ensuring that we always look like we are enjoying ourselves at birthday parties or on holidays and vacations. Even if we are miserable, the photo album will insist that we are having a great time." Idealized self-images are buried deep in the psyche. Kelsey points to a recent study showing that when a digitally idealized image of ourselves appears in an array of images, we pick ourselves out faster than we do with an unimproved image—yet we locate friends and acquaintances more quickly from unimproved images. The practice of improving, enhancing, distorting, and otherwise manipulating photographic images with computer software—as with previous techniques to doctor photographs—has led some to predict that viewers will no longer take photographs seriously as evidence. So far, that has not happened. The torture pictures from the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, for example, were widely credited as evidence of wrongdoing. "The Abu Ghraib pictures were not produced by photojournalists," Kelsey explains. "Their credibility had to do with the fact that they are self-incriminating. It's hard to believe that someone on the inside of the prison would have doctored those photographs. The whistle-blower story was very compelling. "Historically, what has sustained photographs as evidence is not simply the automatic nature of the medium, but journalistic codes of integrity," he continues. "After all, when writing a verbal report of an event, one can make up everything, but we do still take what we read in newspapers seriously, due to our faith in the integrity of the institution. Now photography will have to rely on those forms of trust, rather than on simple faith in the technology itself." Even so, in our media environment, the image often trumps the word—or even the deed. The "photo op" was "an invention of the Reagan presidency," says Kelsey. "Ronald Reagan, who was an old movie actor, understood the importance of the camera in a way that no previous president did." On the eve of the 1984 election, for example, CBS aired a hard-hitting piece by correspondent Lesley Stahl that criticized Reagan for cutting funding for the disabled and elderly, even while appearing in photo ops at the Handicapped Olympics and at the opening of an old-age home. To her surprise, as Stahl recounted in her memoir, Reporting Live, she received a call from Reagan aide Richard Darman '64, M.B.A. '67, complimenting her on the piece and praising its strong visuals. "They didn't hear you," Darman said. "They only saw the pictures." Today, of course, cell phones and the Internet have made nearly everyone a potential photojournalist. For Kelsey, the ability to disseminate images globally via the Web is a far more significant historical shift than the change from film to digital photography (though they are, of course, technologically related). "If we were just making digital pictures and printing them out, that would have a much less profound impact than what we have with the Internet," he says. As an example, he cites images of 2007 street conflicts in Cameroon, transmitted daily by ordinary citizens with cell-phone cameras, who "could operate in a sense as photojournalists for people around the world." Furthermore, even as digital photography has made it easier to manipulate images, "the spread of photographic technology has made it easier to catch such manipulations," Kelsey states. "In this moment of security videos and ubiquitous cell-phone cameras, anyone who fakes an image of a public event risks being exposed by what was recorded by another camera." Consider an image released in July 2008 by the media arm of Iran's Revolutionary Guards. It shows four Iranian missiles successfully launching skyward, and was disseminated worldwide through major newspaper, television, and online outlets. Yet Agence France-Presse, which first distributed the picture, soon retracted it, explaining that it had apparently been digitally altered. (The Associated Press received a very similar image from the same source that showed only three missiles taking off.) The Iranian agency seemed to have added a fictional, fourth sky-bound missile to disguise the failure of an actual fourth missile. "Now that we have these conflicting images," says Kelsey, "the question becomes: what is the most persuasive explanation for the incompatible pictures, what is the most compelling story we can tell?" Telling stories with images has become central to modern life—economic, social, political, cultural. "The terrorists have certainly fought with images," says Kelsey. "Though we must never diminish the value of the thousands who lost their lives in the World Trade Center attacks, it is also true that the effect of those attacks on this country as an image—the planes hitting and the towers going down—was psychologically devastating. The invisibility of the terrorists makes it difficult to respond with an equally powerful picture. The primary lesson: never underestimate the power of images." Craig A. Lambert '69, Ph.D. '78, is deputy editor of this magazine. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:18:03 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:18:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901122148t359e8841l94978c92e129ac21@mail.gmail.com> *No*, it is not a Hindu Homeland that we are seeking. We fully identify with tbe secular-democratic-pluralism of our country, so how can we ask for a Hindu homeland ? We are seeking a homeland for displaced Kashmiris who have faced suppression for centuries, who have been driven out by tyrants repeatedly in the course of history of monarchies and fiefdoms in the valley and who have been subjected to genocide of unparalleled magnitude in a free and democratic India. These people happen mostly to be Hindus. These were the people who staked themselves at the altar of secularism in Kashmir. They reaped the bitter fruits of being nationalists and secular. They are now unwelcome in their own land of which they are the original inhabitants. They will not be able to live in security, safety and dignity in the altered milieu in the valley which has now become completely Islamized and which has no place for other communities. If they are allowed to disperse and disintegrate it will be a total negation of the secular democratic ideals of India. Any attempt to deny them their rightful share in their place of habitation will have far reaching consequences for the rest of the country and will unleash uncontrollable forces of religious bigotry elsewhere in other States and may lead to exodus of minorities from there. So these displaced Kashmiris from the valley are seeking an honourable settlement in the valley and will welcome all those who contribute to the tenets of secularism, democracy and equality before law. We are not seeking a division of Kashmir into Muslim Kashmir and Hindu Kashmir because an Islamic Kashmir is already a fait accompli. What we are asking is our rightful share from it to convert it into a secular democratic homeland with full accession to India and without fetters of Article 370. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pawan (and all) > > I have gone through the website, though I must admit not as fully as I > wanted to for lack of time. But there are certain observations I would like > to make here, after having gone through the website. > > First of all, there have been allegations of discrimination being made > against the Jammu and the Ladakh region, in terms of development. There must > be substantial truths in this I agree. There is also an element of Kashmir > appeasement involved in it, for when the delimitation process was being > conducted in 2001, the then Central Government (ironically, the NDA Govt. > headed by the BJP, the most Right-wing party in India) refused to allow this > process to be conducted in J & K. If this process would have been conducted, > Jammu would have had more seats in Assembly elections 2002 and 2008, than > Kashmir had. What's more, this policy was continued with by the UPA Govt. > Therefore, on this issue, I don't know, who is the bigger appeaser, the NDA > (headed by the BJP) or the UPA (headed by the Congress). Moreover, this > practice was completely wrong, as it's against the basic tenets of > democratic systems and practices introduced and followed by the Election > Commission in India, regarding fair demarcation of constituencies. > > Having said that, the most interesting thing is that Kashmiri Pandits have > been asking for development of Jammu. If I am not wrong, since they are > Kashmiri Pandits, they must have been living in Kashmir Valley and not > Jammu. By all means, the discrimination against Jammu must be portrayed. But > I cannot understand how can the Kashmiri Pandits, or anybody speaking for > them, say that the discrimination against Jammu is discrimination against > the Pandits? This is beyond my understanding. I have no objections with > Pandits fighting for Jammu's rights, and I can support it. But is it a > discrimination against them, even before 1989, when they were living in the > Valley? And if they feel more for Jammu than for the Valley, I don't think > Kashmiri Muslims would have had any trust in them when they were thinking of > azadi. That however does not mean that those Muslims had any right to go > about doing rapes and abettin violence. They should and must be punished for > that. > > Secondly, just having proper food and clothing doesn't mean people will > live peacefully. Today, Gujarat riot victims would also be living peacefully > probably in some places, but does that mean they don't want the abetters of > violence to be punished? Wrong. If the Kashmiri Pandits, those for whom the > situation has improved since 1989 so much so that they are economically and > even politically well off, are asking for justice, can't the Kashmiri > Muslims ask for justice regarding the 1987 elections, and also for the human > right violations being committed on them. I agree that the armed forces are > living in a region of high insecurity, but does that mean they have the > right to carry out fake encounters and rapes of women, in the name of > protecting India's borders? Mind you, they have the right to self-defence. > > Thirdly, the demand for Panun Homeland, is somewhat similar to the demand > made by the RSS that the entire state should be partitioned into three > regions, namely, Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh. But there can be many objections > raised on the basis of this. > > First of all, I would like to know whether this designated Homeland is only > for Pandits. Can't other Hindu communities live in this place? Can't people > from other religions, be it Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Buddhists live in > this homeland? Is it the idea that this homeland will be exclusively for > Pandits only? If that is the case, then I think it's the worst precedent > which can be set up in this very country. Already, we are having the problem > between Maharashtra and UP-Bihar based people, and this will lead to further > tensions. > > Let me be clear on this account. People have to migrate to other places, > and even live there, as they want to take up some occupation. Moreover, a > territory in India has never been formed on the basis of a religious, > community-based or a secretarian identity. Even the Valley has not been > formed a state of its own, simply because of this. Hence, the asking of such > a kind of homeland, is a threat to the idea on which the Constitution of > India is based. > > Secondly, from a nationalist perspective. Since the Kashmiri Pandits are > calling themselves as patriots, but their rhetoric or arguments have been > based on what I think are nationalist perspective, they do deserve an answer > from this point as well. The formation of a separate homeland for them, will > certainly trigger off a demand for the partition of the state into three > regions. Doing so, will mean that Kashmir is actually a separate entity. > This will indirectly mean that India has accepted Jinnah's proposition that > Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations. And if that is the case, then > there is no use of the Indian Nation declaring Kashmir to be an integral > part of India. We may as well gift it to Pakistan. > > The Indian nation formed the state to show to Pakistan and the world, that > the three regions, inspite of their diversity, can co-exist together. The > elections to the State Assembly of 2008 have also been used to show the > same. Ironically, the Pandits, who call themselves the sons of India and > true Indians, have now decided to take up a cause which is actually RSS > supported, but which could very well create this divide. > > By the way, I have not formed all this conclusion of nationalist > perspective by myself. It is something government officials and defence > officials have spoken about in private, or one should say, anonymously to > media time and again. And this is why even under the NDA government, though > RSS supported the tri-partite state to be formed, BJP didn't even ask its > allies for it, although I don't think anybody would have opposed it > actually. They never even mentioned it during 2002 elections of Jammu and > Kashmir. For those who think they can't speak their ideological voice during > coalition rule, better refer to Modi mania during 2002 Gujarat elections. > > There are many issues raised in the website. And I think I will require a > time for 2-3 days to answer all those. But I think I have put forth my views > properly. I will just add a few more things I wish would happen in that > state: > > a) First of all, delimitation must be carried out in the state. If Jammu > deserves more seats (which it seems based on 2001 census), then it should be > given more seats. > > b) If Pandits have not been rehabilitated, efforts must be made to done so. > But Pandits must also realize that demands should be justified based on > rational grounds. At the moment, the demand for a homeland is not even > justified based on nationalist grounds. > > c) I don't understand their logic for making it a union territory. Is it to > ensure that since Muslims are in a majority in the state, and the Pandits > fear them, so a union territory can ensure Pandit's influence and not the > Muslims'? > > d) Any violence, unleashed by either the Kashmiri Muslims (during 1989, > which led to displacement of Pandits), unleashed by the security forces (in > the form of human right violations and daily security checks), or by the > foreign terrorists (Pakistanis, Afghanis, Saudi Arabis or what not as > portrayed by both Pandits and the Indian security establishment) is totally > wrong. All those responsible for it, whatever may be their ideology and > justification for causing violence, must be punished and made an example of, > so that nobody practices violence. > > I must say that the Jammu agitation on Amarnath, and the Kashmir agitation > in response to it, have provided a shining example in one sense. After a > long time, both regions experienced peaceful and non-violent agitations. I > don't have problem with people agitating against the establishment, for that > is what India is and it will be, but it should be non-violent. Of course, > stray incidents of violence did take place, but one can take heart out of > it. Full marks to people of both regions for having followed that course. > And hope they continue to do so, and we all can learn from it. > > I promise to answer back on some other issues as well after fully reading > it. Hope to get your response. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > > > From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 11:38:52 2009 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:08:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] TERRORIST ATTACK ON GAZA: Special issue of Michel Collon.info Message-ID: <952245.92518.qm@web52211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Unsubscribe, add or change your address ? Go directly to Unsubscribe SPECIAL GAZA from www.michelcollon.info FROM GAZA : An inhabitant of Gaza - Letter from Gaza Of Gaza Rannie Amiri - All Quiet on the Gazan Shore Quiet Mads Gilbert - "This is an all-out war against the civilian Palestinian population" All-out war Safa Joudeh - Resisting to protect our own Resisting ANALYSIS : Tom Segev - Trying to 'teach Hamas a lesson' is fundamentally wrong A lesson Jennifer Loewenstein - Israel has no intention of granting a palestinian state A palestinian state Khaled Hroub - Hamas in the eyes of an expert Hamas Michel Chossudovsky - War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields Gas Ilan Pappe - Israel's Righteous Fury and its Victims in Gaza Righteous Fury HISTORY : Gilad Atzmon - Living on borrowed time in a stolen land Living ACTION : In minds - Boycott Apartheid Israël Boycott Ramsey Clark - Cease this Murderous Bombing, Siege and Invasion of Palestinian Gaza! Cease Phone contacts in Gaza - Please forward to friends interested in interview people from Gaza. Forward MEDIA : Anonymous - 12 rules for the great media when the news is from the Middle East Rules Swadhin Sen Archaeologist - Assistant Professor   Dept.of Archaeology            Tel:       +88 02 779 10 45-51 Ext. 1326 Jahangirnagar University      Mobile:  +88 0172 019 61 76   Savar,Dhaka. Bangladesh    Fax:      +88 02 779 10 52   swadhin_sen at yahoo.com; swadhinsen at hotmail.com www.juniv.edu From 133477 at soas.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 11:34:43 2009 From: 133477 at soas.ac.uk (SOMNATH BATABYAL) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:34:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Researcher wanted for Heidelberg Professor in Kolkata during February Message-ID: Dear Friends, I attach a mail from Prof Sax from Heidelberg University who is looking for a research assistant in Kolkata. Details are in his mail below. Do contact at this email address william.sax at urz.uni-heidelberg.de Best Somnath Dear Colleagues, I'm writing to ask if you can help me find a research assistant in Kolkata. I'm doing a small research project on "street canvassers" -- that is, itinerant sellers of medicine (mostly for male potency, I gather) who have quite performative "sales pitches" in public places. I'll be in Kolkata briefly during the first half of February in order to make contact with such people, and will return in January and February of 2010. I would like to find a bright young student who could help me locate, observe, and interview such people, and later translate interviews and recorded "sales pitches." I could pay Rs. 500 per day for about 7 days in February, and then for most of the two months in 2010. Can any of you help me with this? best wishes, bo -- Prof. William S. Sax, PhD Coordinator, Research Area "Health and Environment," Karl Jaspers Centre for Advanced Transcultural Studies, and Deputy Speaker, SFB 619 The Dynamics of Rituals, and Head, Department of Ethnology South Asia Institute Im Neuenheimer Feld 330 D-69120 Heidelberg Ph 49 6221 54 88 36 FAX 49 6221 54 88 98 privat: Sitzbuchweg 40 D-69118 Heidelberg On 13/01/2009, Pawan Durani wrote: > > *No*, it is not a Hindu Homeland that we are seeking. We fully identify > with > tbe secular-democratic-pluralism of our country, so how can we ask for a > Hindu homeland ? We are seeking a homeland for displaced Kashmiris who have > faced suppression for centuries, who have been driven out by tyrants > repeatedly in the course of history of monarchies and fiefdoms in the > valley > and who have been subjected to genocide of unparalleled magnitude in a free > and democratic India. These people happen mostly to be Hindus. These were > the people who staked themselves at the altar of secularism in Kashmir. > They > reaped the bitter fruits of being nationalists and secular. They are now > unwelcome in their own land of which they are the original inhabitants. > They > will not be able to live in security, safety and dignity in the altered > milieu in the valley which has now become completely Islamized and which > has > no place for other communities. If they are allowed to disperse and > disintegrate it will be a total negation of the secular democratic ideals > of > India. Any attempt to deny them their rightful share in their place of > habitation will have far reaching consequences for the rest of the country > and will unleash uncontrollable forces of religious bigotry elsewhere in > other States and may lead to exodus of minorities from there. So these > displaced Kashmiris from the valley are seeking an honourable settlement in > the valley and will welcome all those who contribute to the tenets of > secularism, democracy and equality before law. We are not seeking a > division > of Kashmir into Muslim Kashmir and Hindu Kashmir because an Islamic Kashmir > is already a fait accompli. What we are asking is our rightful share from > it > to convert it into a secular democratic homeland with full accession to > India and without fetters of Article 370. > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Rakesh Iyer >wrote: > > > Dear Pawan (and all) > > > > I have gone through the website, though I must admit not as fully as I > > wanted to for lack of time. But there are certain observations I would > like > > to make here, after having gone through the website. > > > > First of all, there have been allegations of discrimination being made > > against the Jammu and the Ladakh region, in terms of development. There > must > > be substantial truths in this I agree. There is also an element of > Kashmir > > appeasement involved in it, for when the delimitation process was being > > conducted in 2001, the then Central Government (ironically, the NDA Govt. > > headed by the BJP, the most Right-wing party in India) refused to allow > this > > process to be conducted in J & K. If this process would have been > conducted, > > Jammu would have had more seats in Assembly elections 2002 and 2008, than > > Kashmir had. What's more, this policy was continued with by the UPA Govt. > > Therefore, on this issue, I don't know, who is the bigger appeaser, the > NDA > > (headed by the BJP) or the UPA (headed by the Congress). Moreover, this > > practice was completely wrong, as it's against the basic tenets of > > democratic systems and practices introduced and followed by the Election > > Commission in India, regarding fair demarcation of constituencies. > > > > Having said that, the most interesting thing is that Kashmiri Pandits > have > > been asking for development of Jammu. If I am not wrong, since they are > > Kashmiri Pandits, they must have been living in Kashmir Valley and not > > Jammu. By all means, the discrimination against Jammu must be portrayed. > But > > I cannot understand how can the Kashmiri Pandits, or anybody speaking for > > them, say that the discrimination against Jammu is discrimination against > > the Pandits? This is beyond my understanding. I have no objections with > > Pandits fighting for Jammu's rights, and I can support it. But is it a > > discrimination against them, even before 1989, when they were living in > the > > Valley? And if they feel more for Jammu than for the Valley, I don't > think > > Kashmiri Muslims would have had any trust in them when they were thinking > of > > azadi. That however does not mean that those Muslims had any right to go > > about doing rapes and abettin violence. They should and must be punished > for > > that. > > > > Secondly, just having proper food and clothing doesn't mean people will > > live peacefully. Today, Gujarat riot victims would also be living > peacefully > > probably in some places, but does that mean they don't want the abetters > of > > violence to be punished? Wrong. If the Kashmiri Pandits, those for whom > the > > situation has improved since 1989 so much so that they are economically > and > > even politically well off, are asking for justice, can't the Kashmiri > > Muslims ask for justice regarding the 1987 elections, and also for the > human > > right violations being committed on them. I agree that the armed forces > are > > living in a region of high insecurity, but does that mean they have the > > right to carry out fake encounters and rapes of women, in the name of > > protecting India's borders? Mind you, they have the right to > self-defence. > > > > Thirdly, the demand for Panun Homeland, is somewhat similar to the demand > > made by the RSS that the entire state should be partitioned into three > > regions, namely, Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh. But there can be many > objections > > raised on the basis of this. > > > > First of all, I would like to know whether this designated Homeland is > only > > for Pandits. Can't other Hindu communities live in this place? Can't > people > > from other religions, be it Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Buddhists live > in > > this homeland? Is it the idea that this homeland will be exclusively for > > Pandits only? If that is the case, then I think it's the worst precedent > > which can be set up in this very country. Already, we are having the > problem > > between Maharashtra and UP-Bihar based people, and this will lead to > further > > tensions. > > > > Let me be clear on this account. People have to migrate to other places, > > and even live there, as they want to take up some occupation. Moreover, a > > territory in India has never been formed on the basis of a religious, > > community-based or a secretarian identity. Even the Valley has not been > > formed a state of its own, simply because of this. Hence, the asking of > such > > a kind of homeland, is a threat to the idea on which the Constitution of > > India is based. > > > > Secondly, from a nationalist perspective. Since the Kashmiri Pandits are > > calling themselves as patriots, but their rhetoric or arguments have been > > based on what I think are nationalist perspective, they do deserve an > answer > > from this point as well. The formation of a separate homeland for them, > will > > certainly trigger off a demand for the partition of the state into three > > regions. Doing so, will mean that Kashmir is actually a separate entity. > > This will indirectly mean that India has accepted Jinnah's proposition > that > > Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations. And if that is the case, > then > > there is no use of the Indian Nation declaring Kashmir to be an integral > > part of India. We may as well gift it to Pakistan. > > > > The Indian nation formed the state to show to Pakistan and the world, > that > > the three regions, inspite of their diversity, can co-exist together. The > > elections to the State Assembly of 2008 have also been used to show the > > same. Ironically, the Pandits, who call themselves the sons of India and > > true Indians, have now decided to take up a cause which is actually RSS > > supported, but which could very well create this divide. > > > > By the way, I have not formed all this conclusion of nationalist > > perspective by myself. It is something government officials and defence > > officials have spoken about in private, or one should say, anonymously to > > media time and again. And this is why even under the NDA government, > though > > RSS supported the tri-partite state to be formed, BJP didn't even ask its > > allies for it, although I don't think anybody would have opposed it > > actually. They never even mentioned it during 2002 elections of Jammu and > > Kashmir. For those who think they can't speak their ideological voice > during > > coalition rule, better refer to Modi mania during 2002 Gujarat elections. > > > > There are many issues raised in the website. And I think I will require a > > time for 2-3 days to answer all those. But I think I have put forth my > views > > properly. I will just add a few more things I wish would happen in that > > state: > > > > a) First of all, delimitation must be carried out in the state. If Jammu > > deserves more seats (which it seems based on 2001 census), then it should > be > > given more seats. > > > > b) If Pandits have not been rehabilitated, efforts must be made to done > so. > > But Pandits must also realize that demands should be justified based on > > rational grounds. At the moment, the demand for a homeland is not even > > justified based on nationalist grounds. > > > > c) I don't understand their logic for making it a union territory. Is it > to > > ensure that since Muslims are in a majority in the state, and the Pandits > > fear them, so a union territory can ensure Pandit's influence and not the > > Muslims'? > > > > d) Any violence, unleashed by either the Kashmiri Muslims (during 1989, > > which led to displacement of Pandits), unleashed by the security forces > (in > > the form of human right violations and daily security checks), or by the > > foreign terrorists (Pakistanis, Afghanis, Saudi Arabis or what not as > > portrayed by both Pandits and the Indian security establishment) is > totally > > wrong. All those responsible for it, whatever may be their ideology and > > justification for causing violence, must be punished and made an example > of, > > so that nobody practices violence. > > > > I must say that the Jammu agitation on Amarnath, and the Kashmir > agitation > > in response to it, have provided a shining example in one sense. After a > > long time, both regions experienced peaceful and non-violent agitations. > I > > don't have problem with people agitating against the establishment, for > that > > is what India is and it will be, but it should be non-violent. Of course, > > stray incidents of violence did take place, but one can take heart out of > > it. Full marks to people of both regions for having followed that course. > > And hope they continue to do so, and we all can learn from it. > > > > I promise to answer back on some other issues as well after fully reading > > it. Hope to get your response. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Somnath Batabyal Teaching Fellow Centre for Media and Film Studies SOAS From zeenath.hasan at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 12:00:31 2009 From: zeenath.hasan at gmail.com (Zeenath Hasan) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:00:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] START:Fear and Gender Bangalore, 14th to 28th January 2009 Message-ID: <2DE834EB-F21F-4FCD-A63D-8F27C0FC9F77@gmail.com> Fear and Gender in Public Space is the theme of performative, visual and sonic explorations being held in Bangalore from 14th to 28th January 2009. Local and international artists, practitioners and designers will mobilise the theme to exercise parallel collaborative interventions in the city. 1ShanthiRoad is the venue where the explorations begin. Collaborate with your interest, reflections, proposals for action. January 14th, Wednesday, 2pm to 7pm Directions to the venue: http://1shanthiroad.com/studio.html The explorations are blogged here for now: http://zeeniac.net/ fearandgender-bangalore From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 19:04:14 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:04:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Israelis burn Palestinian Children with White Phosphorus Message-ID: Comments by GM: White phosphorous incendiary bombs were used by US and British Airforce in the fire bombing of German cities. White phosphrous bomblets backed in canisters are delivered by bombers or air burst artilery shells. White clusters of white phosphorous pellets are discharged bvy the canisters over a wide area and ignite fires as soon as they land. Because white phosphorous ignites spontaneosly when exposed to oxygen. Even after the flames are doused by water white phosphorus reignites after the water dries. White phosphorus sticks to the skin and the intense heat butrns throughright to the bones. German victims of Allied attacks would jump in the rivwer to put out the flames but as soon as they come out of the water the phosphorus on their skins would start to burn. Phosphorus when burnt produces Phosphorous pentoxide a highly corrosive and substance that damages the lungs and windpipes of the victims. --- Israelis rain phosphorous bombs over children in Gaza Mel Frykberg, The Electronic Intifada, 12 January 2009 RAMALLAH (IPS) - "There is no doubt that Israel is using phosphorous bombs over Gaza. Israel is flagrantly violating the Fourth Geneva Convention," says Raji Sourani, head of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) in Gaza. "This is not the first time we have documented Israel using this kind of prohibited weapon against Gaza's civilian population," Sourani told IPS on phone from Gaza. Human Rights Watch (HRW) confirmed Sourani's assessment in a statement it released on Friday. Its researchers said they had seen "multiple air-bursts of artillery-fired white phosphorous over Gaza City." "I've been on the border for the last few days watching the Israeli artillery firing white phosphorus shells into refugee camps," Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at HRW told France TV channel 24. Ann Sophie Bonefeld from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in Jerusalem was more cautious. "We haven't been able to confirm if Israel is using phosphorous bombs in Gaza," she told IPS. Chiara Stefanini, spokesman for the World Health Organization (WHO) in Jerusalem told IPS, "We have no evidence of phosphorous being used at this point in time. It is still too early to comment." Terrifying pictures released by Israeli military planes of white clouds blanketing the skies of Gaza have filled the screens of Al-Jazeera television every night. Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev was unable to tell Al-Jazeera whether the Israeli army were using this controversial weapon, and referred the network to Israeli army spokeswoman Major Avital Leibovitch during an interview Sunday. "We don't discuss what weapons we use," Leibovitch told Al-Jazeera. "But I can assure you we do not use any weapons that are prohibited by international law. There are other nations that use phosphorous bombs, and we have the right not to comment on this," she added. Britain and the United States used phosphorous bombs in Iraq, particularly during the Fallujah campaign. The Geneva Treaty of 1980 stipulates that white phosphorus should not be used as a weapon of war in civilian areas, but there is no blanket ban under international law on its use as a smokescreen or for illumination. This is not the first time Israel has been accused of using phosphorous bombs in crowded civilian areas in Gaza. Several years ago, doctors in Gaza reported seeing strange wounds on those injured during attacks by Israeli drones, which constantly monitor Gaza from the air. The wounds consisted of many small holes, often invisible to X-rays, and burns caused by heat so intense that many required amputation because of the extensive burning. Habas al-Wahid, head of emergency at the Shuhada al-Aqsa Hospital in Gaza City told journalists then that in several cases the legs of the injured were sliced from their bodies "as if a saw was used to cut through the bone." But there was no evidence of ordinary metal shrapnel in or near the wounds. At al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, spokesman Juma Saka said that on examination of the wounds, the doctors had found a powder on the victims' bodies and in their internal organs. The microscopic particles turned out to be carbon and tungsten. "The powder was like microscopic shrapnel, and this is likely what caused the injuries," Saka said. Following the claims of the Gaza doctors, an investigating team of Italian journalists from the television channel Rai News 24 took samples of the soil back to Italy. Carmela Vaccaio, a doctor at the University of Parma, examined the samples and found a high concentration of carbon, as well as copper, aluminum and tungsten, whose presence she considered unusual. She said in her report that "these findings could be in line with the hypothesis that the weapon in question was a dense inert metal explosive or DIME." According to military experts, DIME is a carbon-encased missile that shatters on impact into minuscule splinters. On impact it sets off an explosive that shoots blades of energy-charged, heavy metal tungsten alloy (HMTA) powder, such as cobalt and nickel or iron, with a carbon fiber casing. This turns to dust on impact, as it loses inertia very quickly due to air resistance, burning and destroying everything within a four-meter range, as opposed to shrapnel which results from the fragmentation of a metal casing. The metal is designated "inert" because it is not involved in the blast, and not because it is chemically or biologically inert. Israel was also accused of using phosphorous against civilian targets in Lebanon during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon war. It initially denied the charge, but finally confirmed it following investigation by the same team of Italian journalists, and in the face of overwhelming evidence. "While the international community might be horrified by the use of phosphorous, this is overlooking the issue that hundreds of half-ton bombs are being dropped on Gaza on civilian targets on a daily basis," Sourani told IPS. Gaza's death toll has risen to over 900, while nearly 4,000 Palestinians have been wounded. The UN reports that half of the deaths are civilian, and half of the civilian casualties are women and children. One million Gazans are currently living without electricity, and some 750,000 without water, according to UN estimates. Gaza has a population of about 1.5 million. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 14 05:12:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:42:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Nandan Nilekeni says YES to MNIC Message-ID: <65be9bf40901131542i173d8b2j4e8bbab237371637@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, In an interview given to CNN-IBN's Rajdeep Sardesai to promote his book Imagining India, Mr. Nandan Nilekeni of the Infosys suggests that a Multiple-purpose National Identity card can help solve socio-economic problems of India. Mr. Nilekeni claims that technology is the key through which what he calls the 'horizontal problems' of India like health, education, housing etc could be solved. The argument was that the government should create mechanism to release the funds to the corporate sector which would in turn produce and deliver the technology to the Government for the benefit of one billion Indians. Please follow the link to watch the interview- http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/78938/11_2008/imagining_india2/technology-can-fix-indias-problems-nilekani.html Regards Taha From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 10:09:28 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:09:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901122148t359e8841l94978c92e129ac21@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901122148t359e8841l94978c92e129ac21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan (and all) I also went through now a fair bit of the site you told; although I must concede here that I have not read anything from the sites about which you told me yesterday; I will defnitely try to go through them and complete that by possibly this week, or may be till next, as it's quite a lot of information. Infact, I have not even completed reading from the sites you told me through this series. Please bear with me, I shall go through them as fast as I can. Now coming back to some of the issues we had talked about yesterday, so much also for what I have read, here is what I wish to say. Kashmir or for that matter, Jammu, are not the servants of Indian government and the Indian nation state. Just because Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu etc. are states of the Indian republic, does not mean that the Indian govt. can completely disregard the people of these states. What is more, just because the Indian Govt gets taxes from these states, does not mean that Indian Govt. can do whatever it likes. The states are a part of India, because the people of those states feel that they are Indians. Make no mistake about it. When you go to Maharashtra, they are definitely Marathis, but they also feel that they are Indians. And hence Maharasthra is a part of India, Raj Thackeray's agitation notwithstanding. However, that does not give a right to the Indian Govt to follow any policy in Maharashtra, regardless of the consent of the people. Kashmir is in a slightly different league. Since Indian independence, Kashmir has never expressed belief in being Indians. The person they supported was Sheikh Abdullah, and as time passed, their support grew in him. After his death, they tried to see what would happen. And this is where I think they are feeling let down. Ironically, there are two important sections of the Kashmiri society who are feeling let down by each other as well as the Indian Govt. The Kashmiri Pandits feel they have been tortured and brutalized by the Kashmiri Muslims, and also left to fend for themselves, by the Indian Govt., which abandoned them in the name of secularism. I think there is merit in the argument, that when the state was supposed to protect their lives, it didn't try to do so. And hence Kashmiri Pandits had to go away from their land. But the reasoning that Kashmir gets grant from the Indian Govt, and hence must be subservient to it is totally bakwaas. In that case, Bihar also gets a lot of grant from the Indian Govt. Does that mean that Bihari people should totally disregard their dignity, and act as servants of the Indian Govt, which today is following economic policies of the WTO and the IMF, backed by US. (Never mind that the same system has led to an economic disaster across the globe, and now we are asked to follow it, so that we can also destroy ourselves.Great going by the three.) People first want dignity, and justice. That is why the poor like democracy. That was snatched away from the Kashmiris. Having said that, when they did protest, they did not have the right to drive away the Kashmiri Pandits by violent methods, based upon voices of Shabbir Shah and Yasin Malik. And if those separatist leaders had driven them away, it becomes their responsibility morally to try first to bring the Pandits back to Kashmir. I must state here that the Indian Govt and even Mufti Mohammed Sayeed's govt, had tried to do so, but failed; the reason being the demand of Panun Kashmir. As I see the map of Panun, I feel that the Valley would be a Union Territory. I oppose it for two reasons: one, since the Pandits feel that Valley Muslims can't be trusted and the Muslims are in a majority, they have asked for a UT, since every election would depend on the Muslims more and less on the Pandits. This is wrong because every good society functions on trust; the day trust is lost you will see violence breaking out in some form or the other among the communities of the society. I think either both Pandits and Muslims must begin to trust each other now, (it is tough mind you, after the bloodshed of 1989), but I think both must forgive and forget and try to build bridges now. Two, the Pandits say that Muslims haven't tried to welcome them, because they don't believe in secularism and nationalism. First of all, nationalism is something I don't know what to do with. India is one of the most nationalist countries in the world, according to a survey I read about 3-4 years ago, and yet, nationalism is not right. For, in the name of nationalism, people have been asked to give away their land without compensation for SEZ's and dams. In the name of nationalism, people have been asked to lose their relatives in aircraft hijacks. In the name of nationalism, Muslims have been raped and murdered in Gujarat as well (it's Hindu nationalism, as they call it). And it's this nationalism which has threatened to completely overlook all ethnic, religious, gender-based and other diversities in India, which form an important landmark in Indian culture. Now, secularism. I agree they were not secular then certainly. The propaganda was communal. But as Gandhi himself said, give a chance even to a criminal to reform himself. I don't feel all Kashmiri Muslims are criminals, and they deserved to be given a chance to be trusted. They did get blown away in emotions, and it's still an emotional issue. But then why not get that trust back. If people from UP and Bihar can go and live in the Valley (on rent of course) and sell vegetables, why can't Kashmiri Pandits go back to their land? This mistrust will lead us nowhere. Last point. Yesterday, there was this issue of Bangladesh immigration and Christian conversion raised by you in your private chat with me. I make it clear, that any conversion based on fraud, force or allurement is wrong, not only in the Constitution, but also morally; for no religion asks people to convert based on these kind of things. Infact, as Gandhi himself said, if people feel some other religion is better than theirs, rather than converting to it, they should follow the practices of that religion. That is enough. Infact, I am proud to say that a Hindu can actually read namaz 5 times a day, and not do idol worship, because idol worship is not central to Hinduism (even athiesm and agnostics are accepted), and still be a Hindu. A Muslim can't however do idol worship, as it's against Islam (which I believe was to integrate the Arab tribes). And as for illegal immigration, it is wrong. It is wrong for Bangladesh morally that their citizens have to come to this country to earn livelihood in an illegal manner. This means in their own country, they don't have any program to help their citizens get employment locally without having to cross the border, and even live off in places like Jaipur and Mumbai. It's wrong for India because politicians use these immigrants to get vote always for themselves, without doing anything for them. Moreover, it destroys the demography of India, and affects it to a degree where outsiders have been affecting vote patterns. However, I am not completely convinced by the last argument; the reason being that there are immigrants who are living in their constituency for more than 5 to 10 years, and these people have a concern in seeing that the constituency develops and they themselves develop. And it may be so that they are being forced only to vote for particular parties during elections, or it may not be so. I think, there is no harm in allowing them to come for work. And after a certain time period, they should have legal rights to vote as Indian citizens, subject to the fact that they would not vote in Bangladesh elections then, or their citizenship will be taken away from them. There is one other question as well.Since Bangladeshis are Muslims, it's believed this is being done to ensure Congress and other such parties will always win. I personally am confused as to what I would do. I know that illegal immigration is against laws, and I agree that BJP and others do have a point. But I also understand that the immigrants are not living in a very good condition, and also the allegation that terrorists are coming through the Bangla border, though widespread in terms of perception, has not been something which can be widely substantiated through proofs, although there are some people coming through that border who are terrorists or anti nationals. So, I really don't know what is the solution from here. If they are allowed to work, what about the locals? The locals too have a right. But if that is the case, why should Biharis be allowed to work in Maharashtra, and not Bangladeshis in India, is beyond me. Just because they are two different nations, doesn't mean we are human beings, and Bangladeshis are not. And they come here to be economially better off. Should they be given voting rights? If yes, then it's legal to get them crossing the border. And the BJP can certainly see it will not win anywhere in the border states on the east. Are there chances they are using funds to spread terror. That's something intelligence agencies can tell us about. And we can go in for action based on those inputs. Should we deport them back, even if they have lived here for even upto 30 years, and have their wives and children here? I really don't know what to suggest here. And I must admit this. I can accept arguments from both sides, for both have some amount of validity. But for me, a solution doesn't seem to come in my mind as of now. Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 11:31:17 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:31:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901122148t359e8841l94978c92e129ac21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901132201g722277d6r430e0777eebb8933@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh , On your querry about Panun Kashmir , pls go through the below article http://www.kashmiri-pandit.org/kplink/elibrary/articles/thepariahcalledppanunkashmir.html *The Pariah called Panun Kashmir* For political parties in Kashmir, without an exception, Panun Kashmir is a pariah. Most of them become hysterical on hearing its name. A grin is flashed across when its mention occurs directly or indirectly in an odd seminar or symposium. An impression is created that talking of Panun Kashmir is talking about the wildest of crimes and calumnies. The Government of India is prepared to talk to the separatists and secessionists in Kashmir and without pre-conditions. She will not talk to Panun Kashmir. And who are the separatists and secessionists? Yasin Malik, the JKLF supremo has the murder case of six airforce personnel pending against him. Bitta Karate said in a televised interview that he could remember 22 killings of Kashmiri Pandits after which he lost the count. Jamaat-e-Islami, a component of APHC declares waging of jihad meaning armed uprising, its birthright to bring freedom to the Kashmir. To these people and their leaders and supporters, the State and the Central government will talk but not to the Panun Kashmir. The reason for this calculated discrimination is simple. Panun Kashmir represents the three lakhs of internally displaced persons of Hindu religious minority in Kashmir. It is not a vote bank for any political party. It has launched a non-violent struggle for homeland and it does not play the game of this or that political party. Therefore it is a pariah and must be dealt accordingly. Panun Kashmir came into being as early as 1990 when exodus was forced on the entire Kashmiri Pandit community. In Margdarshan resolution of 1990, it demanded homeland for the community in South Kashmir with the option to place it under central administration, something short of union territory, till the situation became conducive for the Pandits to move about freely. For this demand, Panun Kashmir came to be labelled as communal, anti-national, separatist, CIA-inspired, KGB-funded, Mossad-initiated and MI-5 supported. Farooq Abdullah, speaking in R.S. Pora last year said that homeland for the displaced Pandits would be possible only on his dead body. However, he has no inhibitions to confer autonomy to sub-regions on religious basis, a process in which he fully aware the Pandits remain sidelined as territoy-less community. The APHC came into being many years after Panun Kashmir was formed. Its leaders are in regular contact with the ISI, Pakistani embassy in New Delhi, and other capitals of Islamic countries particularaly Riyadh, which fund them. It demands secession from India and justifies the use of gun by its activists. It gives frequent calls for strikes crippling Kashmir economy. Despite all this, the APHC is recognised as a reality and is offered unconditional talks. Contrarily, Panun Kashmir is treated an outcast because it opposes secession, rejects the gun, does not succumb to blackmail, has not links with any organisation local or foreign, and does not go to the doorsteps of foreign missions in New Delhi. Therefore, sincerely nationalistic as it is, the Panun Kashmir is a pariah. New Delhi is battling for talks separatists for restoring peace in the strife torn state. The sky has been fixed as the limit. But for Panun Kashmir it would not rise an inch not to speak of sky limit. For the three hundred thousand persons hounded out of their age-old places of origin, the only prescription with the Centre and the State is to coerce them into returning to uncertain and insecure environs in Kashmir where repeated massacres of minority community members takes places. Authorities feel no need to talk to them. When the prestigious International Commission of Jurists (ICJK), a UN accredited NGO with the UNHRC asked the Government of India to submit its observations, the official document mentioned about ethnic-religious cleansing of 250,000 Kashmiri Pandit religious minority in Kashmir by armed fundamentalists. It did mention about the pitiable conditions of their refugee camps in Jammu. But when, in connection with the petition filed by the Pandits before the National Human Rights Commission, the Honourable Commission asked the Government of India to submit its report on the exodus of the Pandits, it said that they had left of their free will and nobody forced them to leave Kashmir. This double speak is a classical example of politicising a human issue. Panun Kashmir is as good a political group in the State as APHC or any other group is. Its credentials are more agreeable than those of APHC or any other organisation. No talks for restoration of peace in Kashmir will meet with success unless the issue of the Pandits is resolved according to their wishes. The UN bodies have recognised the essential principle that the internally displaced persons have to be rehabilitated in their land in a concentrated manner with constitutional and legal guarantees for security, safety and perpetuity.. Their representation in various organs of the State has also been accepted as relevant to the enjoyment of human, civil and political rights. The US Congress has also kept itself informed of the rights and privileges of the internally displaced persons, including the Kashmiri Pandits, and has, in fact, written to the Indian Prime Minister. The European Parliament has also opined in favour of safe and concentrated rehabilitation of the internally displaced persons. Today, we hear from all sides the shrill notes of Government's intentions/plans of taking back the Pandit displaced persons to their respective places in the valley. There are various proposals prepared by the state bureaucrats. Even a senior minister had an exchange of views with a large gathering of Kashmiri Pandits in Jammu. This was followed by statements and press releases from Panun Kashmir organisation's headquarters in Jammu that the community had rejected the proposal of taking back the Pandits without taking cognizance of ground realities.. The Pandits ask for their homeland in South Kashmir with the option of inviting the Union Government to administer it in the long run. The Hurriyat asks for rejection of Indian Constitution by the people of Kashmir, rescinding of accession, which it considers fake and illegal, and determining the will of the people to join one of the two countries or even to remain independent. The Hurriyat's demands do not make it a pariah, but PK's demand for homeland does make it a pariah. The Hurriyat says that its men have suffered oppression and repression by the Indian security forces and their sacrifices cannot go unrewarded. But the killing of nearly two thousand innocent, harmless and unarmed Kashmiri Pandits by the gun-wielding fundamentalists is not considered a sacrifice. The decade- long continuing privations suffered by the Pandits in refugee camps in Jammu and elsewhere are not considered a sacrifice.The status of territoy-lessness of the Pandits is not considered a sacrifice. Their properties vandalised by the locals in Kashmir, or the distress sale of properties inflicted on them is not considered a sacrifice. The endless psychological and physical trauma suffered by the old, the weak, the women and the deprived Pandits in exile are no sacrifices. Criminal policy of destroying the educational career of brilliant Pandit student community is not accepted a sacrifice. Still India claims to be secular and pluralistic state and 'Kashmiriyat' the symbol of communal harmony in Kashmir. The NC government has its own compulsions to coerce the Pandits into returning to the valley. It is debating the autonomy bill in the Legislative Assembly beginning on 19th of June. The bill is already before the Union Cabinet. Passing the bill with the Pandits continuing to remain the territory-less state subjects is an anathema. The NC wants to overcome it by moving a few thousand Pandits to their respective places and then declare to the world that normalcy is restored. The Government would be first probing the rural sections of Pandit displaced persons because according to its own calculation, the villagers in the valley would not be that hostile to the Pandits. This is a wrong hypothesis. The people in rural Kashmir are not what they were ten years ago. Secondly, the neighbour of the Pandit in his village eyeing his property, land, orchard etc. will, in ultimate analysis, prove more threatening to the Pandit than the actual gun-wielding separatist. The second compulsion for the government is that having taken a few thousand Pandits to their places of origin, it would break the Panun Kashmir's demand for homeland. Thirdly, Dr. Farooq Abdullah wants to take the credit to be another Bud Shah of Kashmir who brought the Pandits back. He forgets his own statement that he had sent three hundred of NC youth across the border to receive training in arms because " he feared Jagmohan". He is not bothered in what conditions he would be sending them back because he knows in the eyes of New Delhi the Pandits are expendable. This would also give legitimacy to his demand for enormous funds from the centre in the name of rehabilitation of Pandits. Where the major chunk of those funds would ultimately go, is a part of history. Panun Kashmir is a reality and its demand for Pandit homeland in South Kashmir is the reality of all realities. The Pandits were entitled to it way back in 1949 when Article 370 was incorporated into the Indian Constitution on the basis of Muslim majority character of the State. But Pandits kept the demand in abeyance in the hope that the State and the Central Governments would realise their moral duty of empowering the Pandits in accordance with the international norms of empowering minorities in a democratic set up. That did not happen. What happened was their total extirpation in which many actors now shedding crocodile's tears played their role, ru lers in Srinagar and Nnew Delhi included. No settlement of Kashmir issue will be lasting unless the Pandits are provided with their homeland. If the Indian Union thinks of writing off the Pandits from Kashmir, it will be signing its own death warrant. Then it has no moral right to be in Kashmir because its edifice of secularism and pluralism will be dashed to ground. Its credibility in the comity of nations will fall to nadir. And with that the tantrum of Kashmiriyat will be exposed. The Panun Kashmir homeland is as real on the map of the subcontinent as the Kashmir of Hurriyat's conception is. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pawan (and all) > > I also went through now a fair bit of the site you told; although I must > concede here that I have not read anything from the sites about which you > told me yesterday; I will defnitely try to go through them and complete that > by possibly this week, or may be till next, as it's quite a lot of > information. Infact, I have not even completed reading from the sites you > told me through this series. Please bear with me, I shall go through them as > fast as I can. > > Now coming back to some of the issues we had talked about yesterday, so > much also for what I have read, here is what I wish to say. > > Kashmir or for that matter, Jammu, are not the servants of Indian > government and the Indian nation state. Just because Madhya Pradesh, > Karnataka, Tamil Nadu etc. are states of the Indian republic, does not mean > that the Indian govt. can completely disregard the people of these states. > What is more, just because the Indian Govt gets taxes from these states, > does not mean that Indian Govt. can do whatever it likes. > > The states are a part of India, because the people of those states feel > that they are Indians. Make no mistake about it. When you go to Maharashtra, > they are definitely Marathis, but they also feel that they are Indians. And > hence Maharasthra is a part of India, Raj Thackeray's agitation > notwithstanding. However, that does not give a right to the Indian Govt to > follow any policy in Maharashtra, regardless of the consent of the people. > > Kashmir is in a slightly different league. Since Indian independence, > Kashmir has never expressed belief in being Indians. The person they > supported was Sheikh Abdullah, and as time passed, their support grew in > him. After his death, they tried to see what would happen. And this is where > I think they are feeling let down. > > Ironically, there are two important sections of the Kashmiri society who > are feeling let down by each other as well as the Indian Govt. The Kashmiri > Pandits feel they have been tortured and brutalized by the Kashmiri Muslims, > and also left to fend for themselves, by the Indian Govt., which abandoned > them in the name of secularism. I think there is merit in the argument, that > when the state was supposed to protect their lives, it didn't try to do so. > And hence Kashmiri Pandits had to go away from their land. > > But the reasoning that Kashmir gets grant from the Indian Govt, and hence > must be subservient to it is totally bakwaas. In that case, Bihar also gets > a lot of grant from the Indian Govt. Does that mean that Bihari people > should totally disregard their dignity, and act as servants of the Indian > Govt, which today is following economic policies of the WTO and the IMF, > backed by US. (Never mind that the same system has led to an economic > disaster across the globe, and now we are asked to follow it, so that we can > also destroy ourselves.Great going by the three.) > > People first want dignity, and justice. That is why the poor like > democracy. That was snatched away from the Kashmiris. Having said that, when > they did protest, they did not have the right to drive away the Kashmiri > Pandits by violent methods, based upon voices of Shabbir Shah and Yasin > Malik. And if those separatist leaders had driven them away, it becomes > their responsibility morally to try first to bring the Pandits back to > Kashmir. I must state here that the Indian Govt and even Mufti Mohammed > Sayeed's govt, had tried to do so, but failed; the reason being the demand > of Panun Kashmir. > > As I see the map of Panun, I feel that the Valley would be a Union > Territory. I oppose it for two reasons: one, since the Pandits feel that > Valley Muslims can't be trusted and the Muslims are in a majority, they have > asked for a UT, since every election would depend on the Muslims more and > less on the Pandits. This is wrong because every good society functions on > trust; the day trust is lost you will see violence breaking out in some form > or the other among the communities of the society. I think either both > Pandits and Muslims must begin to trust each other now, (it is tough mind > you, after the bloodshed of 1989), but I think both must forgive and forget > and try to build bridges now. > > Two, the Pandits say that Muslims haven't tried to welcome them, because > they don't believe in secularism and nationalism. First of all, nationalism > is something I don't know what to do with. India is one of the most > nationalist countries in the world, according to a survey I read about 3-4 > years ago, and yet, nationalism is not right. For, in the name of > nationalism, people have been asked to give away their land without > compensation for SEZ's and dams. In the name of nationalism, people have > been asked to lose their relatives in aircraft hijacks. In the name of > nationalism, Muslims have been raped and murdered in Gujarat as well (it's > Hindu nationalism, as they call it). And it's this nationalism which has > threatened to completely overlook all ethnic, religious, gender-based and > other diversities in India, which form an important landmark in Indian > culture. > > Now, secularism. I agree they were not secular then certainly. The > propaganda was communal. But as Gandhi himself said, give a chance even to a > criminal to reform himself. I don't feel all Kashmiri Muslims are criminals, > and they deserved to be given a chance to be trusted. They did get blown > away in emotions, and it's still an emotional issue. But then why not get > that trust back. If people from UP and Bihar can go and live in the Valley > (on rent of course) and sell vegetables, why can't Kashmiri Pandits go back > to their land? This mistrust will lead us nowhere. > > Last point. Yesterday, there was this issue of Bangladesh immigration and > Christian conversion raised by you in your private chat with me. I make it > clear, that any conversion based on fraud, force or allurement is wrong, not > only in the Constitution, but also morally; for no religion asks people to > convert based on these kind of things. Infact, as Gandhi himself said, if > people feel some other religion is better than theirs, rather than > converting to it, they should follow the practices of that religion. That is > enough. Infact, I am proud to say that a Hindu can actually read namaz 5 > times a day, and not do idol worship, because idol worship is not central to > Hinduism (even athiesm and agnostics are accepted), and still be a Hindu. A > Muslim can't however do idol worship, as it's against Islam (which I believe > was to integrate the Arab tribes). > > And as for illegal immigration, it is wrong. It is wrong for Bangladesh > morally that their citizens have to come to this country to earn livelihood > in an illegal manner. This means in their own country, they don't have any > program to help their citizens get employment locally without having to > cross the border, and even live off in places like Jaipur and Mumbai. It's > wrong for India because politicians use these immigrants to get vote always > for themselves, without doing anything for them. Moreover, it destroys the > demography of India, and affects it to a degree where outsiders have been > affecting vote patterns. > > However, I am not completely convinced by the last argument; the reason > being that there are immigrants who are living in their constituency for > more than 5 to 10 years, and these people have a concern in seeing that the > constituency develops and they themselves develop. And it may be so that > they are being forced only to vote for particular parties during elections, > or it may not be so. > > I think, there is no harm in allowing them to come for work. And after a > certain time period, they should have legal rights to vote as Indian > citizens, subject to the fact that they would not vote in Bangladesh > elections then, or their citizenship will be taken away from them. There is > one other question as well.Since Bangladeshis are Muslims, it's believed > this is being done to ensure Congress and other such parties will always > win. > > I personally am confused as to what I would do. I know that illegal > immigration is against laws, and I agree that BJP and others do have a > point. But I also understand that the immigrants are not living in a very > good condition, and also the allegation that terrorists are coming through > the Bangla border, though widespread in terms of perception, has not been > something which can be widely substantiated through proofs, although there > are some people coming through that border who are terrorists or anti > nationals. > > So, I really don't know what is the solution from here. If they are allowed > to work, what about the locals? The locals too have a right. But if that is > the case, why should Biharis be allowed to work in Maharashtra, and not > Bangladeshis in India, is beyond me. Just because they are two different > nations, doesn't mean we are human beings, and Bangladeshis are not. And > they come here to be economially better off. > > Should they be given voting rights? If yes, then it's legal to get them > crossing the border. And the BJP can certainly see it will not win anywhere > in the border states on the east. Are there chances they are using funds to > spread terror. That's something intelligence agencies can tell us about. And > we can go in for action based on those inputs. Should we deport them back, > even if they have lived here for even upto 30 years, and have their wives > and children here? > > I really don't know what to suggest here. And I must admit this. I can > accept arguments from both sides, for both have some amount of validity. But > for me, a solution doesn't seem to come in my mind as of now. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 14 12:24:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:54:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-64 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901132254w7461e579wa7218ca2f8c9995b@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=343124 KALAM-POLLS PRINT EMAIL Evolve system which disqualifies politician at nomination stage: Kalam NEW DELHI, DEC 20 (PTI) In this age of sting operations "exposing" corruption among Parliamentarians, President A P J Abdul Kalam today suggested an election system that could disqualify a politician at the stage of filing of nomination papers itself. Mooting the idea of citizen identity cards and enhanced connectivity, the President visualised a scenario in a networked world where the political ability of a person could be ascertained when he comes to file his papers. "These days many wrong fellows are elected to Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha. I visualise a scenario where a candidate files his nomination from a particular constituency and the election officer verifies his authenticity from the national citizen database through multi-factor authentication, through a multipurpose citizen ID card," he said addressing the 'India Empowered Summit' organised by The Indian Express Group here. Forseeing an extensively networked India, the President said as the election officer seeks details on his computer system using the election hopeful's citizen ID card "all the details arrive at his computer terminal within a few swconds automatically by the act of e-governance software agents which crawl across the state and central government web services directories and present it in real time basis." Kalam said the polling percentage can be increased by allowing people to vote from their homes through virtual polling booths. The President said "to establish a system that I have visualised, we need a high bandwidth broadband connectivity across many government departments" from where information could be drawn in real-time basis to achieve the goal of good governance. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 14 12:21:04 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:51:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-64 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901132251m6049db22ye6f4802bc381e35c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=343124 KALAM-POLLS PRINT EMAIL Evolve system which disqualifies politician at nomination stage: Kalam NEW DELHI, DEC 20 (PTI) In this age of sting operations "exposing" corruption among Parliamentarians, President A P J Abdul Kalam today suggested an election system that could disqualify a politician at the stage of filing of nomination papers itself. Mooting the idea of citizen identity cards and enhanced connectivity, the President visualised a scenario in a networked world where the political ability of a person could be ascertained when he comes to file his papers. "These days many wrong fellows are elected to Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha. I visualise a scenario where a candidate files his nomination from a particular constituency and the election officer verifies his authenticity from the national citizen database through multi-factor authentication, through a multipurpose citizen ID card," he said addressing the 'India Empowered Summit' organised by The Indian Express Group here. Forseeing an extensively networked India, the President said as the election officer seeks details on his computer system using the election hopeful's citizen ID card "all the details arrive at his computer terminal within a few swconds automatically by the act of e-governance software agents which crawl across the state and central government web services directories and present it in real time basis." Kalam said the polling percentage can be increased by allowing people to vote from their homes through virtual polling booths. The President said "to establish a system that I have visualised, we need a high bandwidth broadband connectivity across many government departments" from where information could be drawn in real-time basis to achieve the goal of good governance. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 14 12:26:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:56:50 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-65 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901132256s3759f10bw4083ab11707ff23c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=92122 GUPTA-FORCES PRINT EMAIL Systematic modernisation effected in Armed forces: Gupta JAMMU, OCT 21 (PTI) Resources constraints had "degraded" India's offensive capabilities during last fifteen years and the NDA Government through its systematic modernisation has put a check on it, Union Minister for State for Defence Chaman Lal Gupta said today. "The government attended to the modernisation of armed forces to arrest the degradation of our offensive capabilities during last decade and a half, which was mainly due to resource constraints", Gupta told reporters here. The minister said the Government had also increased the focus on internal security in an unprecedented manner and strengthened border survelliance through induction of suitable mechanisms and counter insurgency equipment. Spelling out the steps taken, Gupta said T-90 tanks, 310 t-90 tanks, Sophisticated ships including indigenously made destroyers and Russain Sukhoi-30 MKI combat aircraft and submarines were inducted and Mig-21 aircraft upgraded. "The enactment of POTA, increased allocation for modernisation of police and para-military forces, multi-purpose national identity cards which will soon be introduced are proof of NDA Government's increased emphasis on internal security" he said. He said the Government had carried out a comprehensive review of national security system on the recommendations of the Kargil Review Committee and took major initiatives to improve defence preparedness. From kiccovich at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 15:34:02 2009 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:04:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] 'The new Iraq is based upon the principle of consensus' -- LA Times Message-ID: <482890.87823.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> -------------------- 'The new Iraq is based upon the principle of consensus' -------------------- A transcript of The Times' interview with Kurdistan President Massoud Barzani. By Ned Parker Los Angeles Times Staff Writer In Sunday's paper, The Times interviewed Kurdistan region's President Massoud Barzani about the growing rift between the Kurds and Prime Minister Nouri Maliki. Below is a transcript of most of the interview. The complete article can be viewed at: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-transcript12-2009jan12,0,2173247.story Visit latimes.com at http://www.latimes.com From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 16:05:32 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:35:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Tatas, Ambanis, Mittals bat for Modi as PM Message-ID: <67405.64207.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Anil Ambani, Sunil Mittal bat for Narendra Modi as PM 14 Jan 2009, 1219 hrs IST, PTI AHMEDABAD: Corporate honchos Anil Ambani and Sunil Bharti Mittal on Tuesday showered praise on Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi and termed his leadership as national level material. Speaking at the valedictory session of the Fourth Vibrant Gujarat Global Investors Summit, Ambani said, "Narendrabhai has done good for Gujarat and what will happen if he leads the nation." "Gujarat has seen progress in all the fields under his leadership. Now, imagine what will happen to the nation if he leads the nation," he said and added, "Person like him should be the next leader of the country." Recalling his father late Dhirubhai, Ambani said that Dhirubhai used to say "Modi lambi race ka ghoda hai (Modi will go a long way)." Similarly, Sunil Bharti Mittal also lavished praises on Modi and his leadership. "Chief minister Modi is known as a CEO, but he is actually not a CEO because he is not running a company or a sector. He is running a state and can also run nation," he said. ----- Also join this Facebook group against efforts for Modi as the next PM: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=45273386987&ref=mf From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 16:26:18 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:26:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Tatas, Ambanis, Mittals bat for Modi as PM In-Reply-To: <67405.64207.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <67405.64207.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all This is indeed a brilliant piece of news. Certainly Modi should be the PM after all. He has shown how to respond to a situation like Godhra; by allowing religious bigots and their companions to murder, unofficially, 2000 citizens of that state, which not only includes Muslims who were not at all responsible for Godhra, but also includes Hindus who were trying to protecting those Muslims and even mazaars. He has shown how to use religion for a wrong purpose like communal polarization. He has shown us the path of decency to be attained in election speeches, by using these words for the then Election Commissioner, during the 2002 elections : 'The Chief Election Commissioner is acting like a Christian'. Of course, in continuation with that, he carried on with saying that 'The Indian Government is actually Delhi Sultanate' and what not. He has shown how to allow people to roam about with municipal lists and go around butchering Muslims, but not at all touching Hindu homes beside them. He has also shown how to deal with the 'Muslim menace': by getting their women raped and their foetuses burned. He has shown how to deal with issues of justice: by simply proclaiming that since Hindus didn't receive justice in the past, due to 'Islamic rule', now it's the turn of Muslims to suffer retributive action for it. He has shown the path to industrialization, so much so that today the salt industries are now polluting the sea coast of Gujarat, flouting all environmental norms, because as they say 'Modi bhai protects us'. He has shown how to turn election campaigns to gutter politics of the worst kind. He has shown the media the door to attain freedom, by asking through his government, the PTI, to publish 5 articles as per government based view in the papers compulsorily, when all this time even a central government could not order the same. He has shown how to go ahead to prove his secularism, by just brazenly destroying temples in the name of encroachment. After having got mazars and mosques demolished in 2002, now he is out to prove he can also be secular, like his great mentor, L.K.Advani. And certainly for the Tatas, he is a god-gift. After all, when the Singur people were asking for their democratic rights, and at least their voice to be heard, the Tatas found it to be 'undemocratic'. And when the Gujarat government has given them subsidy, which would in totality amount to nothing other than Rs. 30,000 crore, they think it's perfectly legal. The Tatas have not lost out anything by Singur, except a few hundreds of crores, which is no big money for them. On the contrary, they have earned a subsidy, which is difficult even for other companies to earn. The Tatas think it's a divine right of theirs to do so. What they forget is the devastation of Singur, and how they wanted things to be done their way, even at the expense of democratic rights of people. Singur and India have proved that we will not lie back, and if that means Tata has to go from Singur or even India, let that be. Jamshedji Tata was a great person, but his successor has forgotten the basic human courtesy which should have been given to people. The less said about the Reliance, the better. If I am not wrong, 'Guru' is the movie which is about Ambani, (played by Abhishek Bachchan), whose false deals and bogus claims are brought before the public by Shekhar Gupta (played by Madhavan) of the Indian Express, with the help of the editor Ramnath Goenka (played by Mithun Chakravorty). Reliance, according to true market insiders, is nothing else but a gamble. And Dhirubhai was known in earlier days and even now their company is known, to influence public policies to suit their ends. It's believed Pramod Mahajan introduced policies which would have helped Reliance in hindsight. And now they have Amar Singhs and others to help them. As for Mittal, it would be better to get his company's accounts audited properly, before declaring Modi to be the best CM. I hope he doesn't end up the way Satyam has. Indian companies and corporates are basically stooges of the US today, at least the big ones. And we all know how the US companies, being deregulated, have blown themselves up and the financial economy as well. I only hope these companies don't also end up the same way. They get so many tax benefits, and still crib about subsidies to farmers and Indian agriculture. For them, it's just profits earned by hook and crook. If made to face proper competition, they would be sunk. They are only surviving on the basis of loans and other financial freedoms granted to them by the state and the central governments. And the people have definitely voted out governments in the past, which focused only on industralists and not on the common man, as 2004 has shown. And since Modi is the best CM for them, the UPA should prove themselves to be the worst rulers, by first getting the accounts of these companies and their folk audited publicly, to find out whether they do earn profits, or they are the new Satyams to be discovered in future. After all, since these companies believe in free markets and capitalism, let subsidies for them be thrown out, and let it be found out whether these companies deserve to survive or not. Regards Rakesh From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 22:30:55 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:30:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Tatas, Ambanis, Mittals bat for Modi as PM In-Reply-To: References: <67405.64207.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At around the same time Ambani and others were batting for Modi, the following email was sent to the foil list. Modi's communalism is not the only thing that is against him. Even the nature of Gujarat's industrialization may not be too great. And lets not forget, when Medha Patkar was on a hunger strike, both the ambani brothers, along with other famous businessmen, released full page ads in all the major newspapers, saying they support the Narmada Dams. Business and Governments both appear to be against the poor in Gujarat. Aashish PRESS RELEASE DATE; 13TH JANUARY 2009 · The success story of the two digit growth has masked the several digit realities of loss of livelihood, land acquisition, displacement and permanent loss of natural resources which are treated as free goods in this process. · The investment figure without the displacement and depletion of natural resources figure and the employment figure without loss of livelihood does not make sense. – Rohit Prajapati and Dr. Trupti Shah · No wise person would talk about the income without talking the cost of acquiring that income or wealth. In the midst of the euphoria created by the investment flooding in to Gujarat and lakhs of new jobs likely to be created we would like to draw the attention of the 5.5 crore of Gujaratis that this is only one side of the story. The success story of the two digit growth has masked the several digit realities of loss of livelihood, land acquisition, displacement and permanent loss of natural resources, which are treated as free goods in this process. The investment figure without the displacement and depletion of natural resources figure and the employment figure without loss of livelihood does not make sense. No wise person would talk about the income without talking the cost of acquiring that income or wealth. It is a shocking fact that we have never tried to arrive at even a realistic estimate of these figures but the magnitude of the loss can be guessed from some of the facts emerging from various important research works. This is just a tip of iceberg. Development-Induced Displacement in Gujarat 1947-2004 report prepared by Dr. Lancy Lobo and Shashikant Kumar of Centre for Culture and Development clearly indicates that there are 4,00,000 households displaced and affected in Gujarat during 57 years of Independence, amounting to 5% of the total population of Gujarat from developmental projects such as water resource related, transport and communications, industries, mines, defence, sanctuaries, human resource related, government offices, tourism and so on. This report further indicates that a total of 33,00,000 hectares of land has been acquired during 1947-2004 as computed from 80,000 Gazette notifications of the government of Gujarat and from Land Acquisition Departments from 25 Collectorates through RTI Act. This figure does not include the land acquired and people affected by the most controversial project Sardar Sarovar Dam [Narmada]. The acquisition of land was not based on the market value of the land but by bypassing all the rules of market mechanism. This figure of displaced also does not include the people who were dependent on land for their livelihood but were not the owner of the land. Thus real figure of loss of livelihood may even cross the figure of 50,00,000. We hope that this figure is not negligible for the Government of Gujarat. 2007 and now in 2009 vibrant Gujarat summit is talking about huge investment but is silent on the issue of land acquisition and loss of livelihood because of the land "acquisition". We would like to inform 5.5 Crore Gujaratis that because of haphazard industrialisation, Gujarat has a number of industrial pollution Hot-Spots, where pollution levels are critical in surface water, groundwater and air. Ankleshwar, Vapi, Nandesari and Vatva are some such Hot-Spots. However, no zoning atlas is available for heavily industrialised districts in the Golden Corridor, where, in addition to existing industries, the Government has planned a number of Mega chemicals Industrial Estates. In Gujarat, groundwater is the major source of drinking water in several talukas including those with a high concentration of industries. This groundwater has been contaminated in some areas of about 74 talukas out of 184 talukas. Some of them are in the Golden Corridor - areas along the Kharicut Canal near Ahmedabad, areas around Ankleshwar Industrial Estate, some areas along ECP, and the areas surrounding Vapi which are among the critical polluted areas. The types of groundwater pollutants are TDS, hardness, salinity, chloride, COD, color, heavy metals, and POPs. Current knowledge of the Gujarat Government on surface and groundwater contamination is very limited. Isolated reports exist of groundwater contamination in industrial areas. Comprehensive studies to identify the contamination of entire aquifers are absent. Rohit Prajapati [ROHIT PRAJAPATI] ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST Trupti Shah [Dr. TRUPTI SHAH] ECONOMIST From difusion at medialab-prado.es Wed Jan 14 22:55:26 2009 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:25:26 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Last days: Call for collaborators> INTERACTIVOS?'09: GARAGE SCIENCE Message-ID: <496E2006.8080601@medialab-prado.es> CALL FOR COLLABORATORS *INTERACTIVOS?'09: GARAGE SCIENCE *International Project Development Workshop *Deadline for collaborators: January 25 **Workshop & Seminar dates: January 28 - February 14 Venue: Medialab-Prado (Madrid, Spain) * Interactivos?'09: Garage Science is an intensive project development workshop led by Critical Art Ensemble, Julian Bleecker, and Natalie Jeremijenko. Collaborators will participate in the development of selected prototypes, that combine open software, hardware and biology. Collaborators' profile: biology, chemistry, anthropology, physics, mechanics, electronics, free software/hardware, handcraft, DYI, low budget design, Arduino, microcontrollers, GPS, Java, AS3, Processing, Pure Data, C++, physical computing, fabbing, interface design, A/V creation, text analytics/information extraction/NLP, urban/permaculture/organic farming, etc. No entry fees. More information and online submission form: http://medialab-prado.es/article/interactivos09_ciencia_de_garaje_convocatoria_para_colaboradores Organized by Medialab-Prado. Department of Arts. Madrid City Council. interactivos / at / medialab-prado.es From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 14 23:26:25 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:56:25 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Twilight of the color photo As printed snapshots vanish, we're losing more than shoe boxes full of mementos Message-ID: <65be9bf40901140956k434e598ga63049613cb054e9@mail.gmail.com> Dear All The essay below discusses photography in general and the transformation of technology from print to digital in particular. I think it would be fruitful to bear in mind that MNIC will store digital photographs. The data will be recorded in a chip which would be placed inside the plastic card. Regards Taha http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/01/04/twilight_of_the_color_photo/?page=full Twilight of the color photo As printed snapshots vanish, we're losing more than shoe boxes full of mementos ONE HUNDRED YEARS ago, one of Paris's richest men had a quixotic dream. Returning from a personal trip to China and Japan, the banker Albert Kahn decided to build a huge visual archive of the planet. Kahn believed that mutual misunderstanding was the source of world conflict, so in 1909, he began funding scores of photographers as they set out across five continents. By the time the Great Depression finally bankrupted him 22 years later, Kahn's intrepid op??rateurs had managed to document almost 50 countries, returning to France with 120 hours of film footage and 4,000 black-and-white pictures. This alone would have been a remarkable legacy, but the real jewels of the collection were printed on glass, in a full spectrum the world had never seen. The recently invented technique of the autochrome - which made portable color photography possible - meant that Kahn's emissaries could also amass a staggering total of 72,000 color plates. Discuss COMMENTS (15) Today, Kahn's project - still housed in a suburb west of Paris - is a stirring and underappreciated monument: the first great work of color photography. Princeton University Press is marking this centennial with a beautifully illustrated book. "The Dawn of the Color Photograph" is a handsome document full of lush and memorable images. Most of us still picture 1909 exclusively in black and white, so it's a revelation to peer back 100 years and see such eerily bright hues. French soldiers - dressed inadvisably in red, white, and blue - carve trenches through the verdant countryside; members of the Indian aristocracy, though recently stripped of power, still gather for a portrait wrapped in a defiant regalia of lavender, gold, maroon, and orange. Back in its heyday, the Moulin Rouge is pictured truly red. The most poignant autochromes - the really haunting ones - are those where the richness of color fixes people whose ways of life are unwittingly on the verge of extinction: Farmers, shepherds, and weavers all stand still as their tools and costumes enter the afterlife through a revolutionary new medium. In the years since Kahn sent his crews out with thousands of pounds of coated glass, the color print has evolved from an expensive novelty into an affordable, nearly ubiquitous object. What used to take specialists many painstaking hours can now be done by machine in a matter of seconds; 30 cents now buys an accurate, glossy color the likes of which the wealthy Kahn could only have dreamed of. As an object, the color print has finally been perfected. And yet, the 100th anniversary of Kahn's project isn't so much a triumphant moment as an elegiac one. Like the shepherds, the color print has nearly vanished. Today, you get some glossies sent out as holiday cards, and some lucky ones get matted and framed, but the vast majority of color photographs now taken - and there are countless millions of them - pass before us, just briefly, on a screen. Our rituals have already shifted. We no longer hand vacation photos around patiently at dinner parties. If we do reach for our photo albums, the collections start to thin out around 2006. Family pictures migrated from our desktop to our "desktop," and showing off a wallet photo is suddenly very rare. Instead, we flip open to the snap on our cellphones, where our beloved's low-res face competes brightly with the time, date, and number of bars. (Many of our friends are smiling away inside that camera phone.) Printing is still just as easy and cheap as it ever was, but given the option, we now prefer to save - or upload - instead. That tells us something about our appetite for convenience, but even more about what we want from photographs in the first place. The object itself, no matter how crisp and permanent, how lush or mysterious, turns out to matter less than our ability to capture, store, and share an image. Without the print, photography's magical power - to freeze a moment in time - is still ours. In fact, although we continue to think of the photograph as a physical thing, we are finding out that it better serves our needs without being printed. But as with each of our advances, something else is being lost. It is easy to think of the print and the digital image as the same thing, but they're actually very different. Even as cameras tout their ever-increasing megapixels, nearly everything we view is projected out at 72 dots per inch, the standard resolution of a monitor. The resulting pictures are back-lit, vivid, and very easy to scan, so we hardly notice how hard it is to look into them. Your eyes move side to side, and you can easily gather all the information, but if you linger for a minute - an actual minute - you'll notice that the screen doesn't quite accept your gaze. A printed photograph, however - even when small, or blurry - has a way of letting you in. The paper surface is less aggressive than the liquid crystal one, so your eyes can roam around. The brightness of the pixel has a price: The illusory space of the photo is subtly reduced, along with its invitation to wander - or simply rest - inside it. Of course, the real space photographs take up is also reduced. Like most technology, the color print seemed ever so sleek . . . until we saw the upgrade. A laptop effortlessly holds what hundreds of shoe boxes could not; we now send 50 pictures with a click. Still, the actual third dimension is an important aspect of the supposedly 2D print; the physical contact establishes a certain intimacy. Who has not held a photograph and wept? Who hasn't felt their nostalgia settle for an instant on the thinness of a print? To hold a photo is to hold a person, or even a place, in your hand - a momentary illusion that has no parallel on a monitor. The digital gems we hoard can number in the thousands, or even in the tens of thousands. Of course, the idea is that any and all of them could be printed, if an occasion were to arise. But what would that special day be like? Years pass, and it never comes. The prospect of printing them all out becomes unthinkable. The reason they never turn into objects is precisely because these photos have already served their purpose: At the party, which we wished would go on forever, we posed and we clicked. Then we showed each other the little LCD screen, and we were satisfied - the moment would last. (A little while later, we repeated the ritual.) But just as the paperless format erases one kind of closeness, it can open entirely new realms of intimacy - the minute you hit "upload." While our stored photos are shy (you have to search for them) and a little vulnerable (they can all disappear with a hard drive), the ones we put on the Web are gregarious and immortal. Never before has the photo been so emphatically public, announcing our achievements and pleasures with a swiftness we never dreamed of. So even when these disseminated images come to haunt us, it's not in the manner of the print - which conjured private sentiments, like longing or regret - but with rather more civic feelings, like shame and embarrassment. Usually these unnerving photos are the ones other people have posted (and "tagged"), but what's really irksome is that other people are seeing them, and that these other people can even copy them and distribute them, if they so choose. The old idea of "destroy the negatives" sounds pretty quaint in a world of endlessly reproducible jpegs, as does the notion of asking to take someone's picture. We're all celebrities now! But it is the photographs, not their subjects, that are godlike in their movements. The lowly print, meanwhile, can only exist in one place at a time. It's easily damaged, or hidden, or lost. In these weaknesses, however, lies a particular charm. Only a few years have passed, and we already wax nostalgic about the old processes. Remember when you used to have to wait? The premeditation is gone, as well as the anticipation, investment, and surprise. The photograph is less of an occasion. Don't worry, we can take another one! In the era of prints, the image was just part of the photograph. The carefully avoided thumbprints, the unfortunate creases, the ugly red digital date stamps - we will come to miss these subtle markings. Hold them by the edges! But the new images don't even have edges - they're all front. It has become common for critics and artists to mourn the passing of particular formats - the Polaroid, the Lomo, or the Kodachrome - but these eulogies only scratch the proverbial surface. What we will really miss is the print itself. It seems strange that this long-awaited miracle - this icon of modern life - would even have a life span. But after a century of printing full color images of our lives, the habit is quietly dying out. Of course, hobbyists and art schools will keep the techniques alive. Liberated from utility, the photograph is already following other antiquated printing processes - like engraving and lithography - into the domain of craft and fine art. And old-fashioned photos will probably still be employed, like wax seals and letter-press invitations, to commemorate special occasions. But Kahn's haunting autochromes - which are cracked and worn, imperfect, fragile, and well traveled - should remind us that there is magic when the object itself, not just the occasion, is special. Whether they have crossed continents, or just sat in somebody's pocket, even the flimsiest photographic prints take on a certain weight. As they fade from use, we can start to sense what these objects really did: They carried feelings their images didn't intend, feelings that mattered more than anyone knew at the time. Dushko Petrovich, a painter and critic, is the resident fellow in painting at Boston University and the founding editor of Paper Monument. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 14 23:46:37 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:16:37 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Photo Tampering Throughout History Message-ID: <65be9bf40901141016pda0c3d3hca1970f23de81cff@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Here is an excerpt from a website hosted by Hany Farid, who is a Professor of Computer Science at Dartmouth and he cites digital forensics, image science, and computer analysis as his areas of interest. The excerpt below is from a section titled, Photo Tampering Throughout History. -Photography lost its innocence many years ago. In as early as the 1860s, photographs were already being manipulated, only a few decades after Niepce created the first photograph in 1814. With the advent of high-resolution digital cameras, powerful personal computers and sophisticated photo-editing software, the manipulation of digital images is becoming more common. Please follow the url for more- http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/farid/research/digitaltampering/ Regards Taha From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 23:58:59 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:58:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: SAHMAT 20 YEARS- IMAGE MUSIC TEXT- Tomorrow, January 15th, 6 pm, JAMIA MILLIA ISLAMIA, NEW DELHI Message-ID: <47e122a70901141028s639ad623j8f46bf7178dfd1f4@mail.gmail.com> ---------- SAHMAT 20 YEARS- IMAGE MUSIC TEXT- Tomorrow, January 15th, 6 pm, JAMIA MILLIA ISLAMIA, NEW DELHI Please Join Us SAHMAT and the Outreach Program of Jamia Millia Islamia present IMAGE MUSIC TEXT SAHMAT 20 YEARS Tracing the Secular A unique exhibition showcasing the projects, strategies and initiatives evolved by Sahmat over its 20 year existence. This exhibit places all the projects in their context and shows how the street actions, artists projects, performative events, academic symposia and publications have been closely interlinked. As a unique platform of the creative and academic community, Sahmat has provided a space for the expression of a socially and politically committed practice, outside the confines of an increasingly market-driven economy. The work in the exhibit covers a wide range of media and includes paintings, sculpture, photography, posters, video, banners by Bhupen Khakhar, Manjit Bawa, Vivan Sundaram, Gulam Sheikh, Paritosh Sen, Jatin Das, Shamshad, Madhvi Parekh, Rummanna Husain, Anita Dube, Peter Nagy, Inder Salim, Gigi Scaria, Parthiv Shah......amongst many others. A highlight are 20 year old watercolors and gouaches for Safdar's childrens books by Nilima Sheikh, Mona Rai, Surendran Nair, Vasudevan Akkitam, Mickey Patel, BV Suresh - full of whimsy. The exhibit also provides an overview of the evolution of arts practice over the 20 years and shows how individual styles have actually changed and evolved as a response to the political and social upheavals the nation has experienced. It is precisely over these 20 years that the assault on culture and the freedom of expression has sharpened and we are now living with the reality of the forced exile of an artistic mentor and icon like MF Husain. IMAGE MUSIC TEXT is a strong reassertion of the resistance of the creative community against the propogation of narrow sectarian and cultural identities being pushed by political forces seeking to divide our people. IMAGE MUSIC TEXT MF HUSAIN ART GALLERY JAMIA MILLIA ISLAMIA, NEW DELHI January 15th, 6 pm - Till Feb 14th Monday-Saturday, 11 am - 6 pm Presented in association with the Outreach Program of Jamia Millia Islamia SAHMAT 8 Vithal Bhai Patel House Rafi Marg, New Delhi 110001 Tel: 2371 1276, 2335 1424 E mail: sahmat8 at yahoo.com ________________________________ -- From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 15 10:53:55 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:23:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On Kafka. Message-ID: <65be9bf40901142123y7f0f86edsd41f1d8fcdb75039@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Below is a review, of a biography on Kafka, by Zadie Smith. I still have to read the book but going by the review I think Kafka, the man and the world he conjured in his head was in many ways quite telling. I think the excerpts below indicate a lot about his dilemmas on Zionism, nationalism and self identity. Excerpt 1- On Zionism I admire Zionism and am nauseated by it. At times I'd like to stuff them all, simply as Jews (me included) into, say, the drawer of the laundry chest. Next I'd wait, open the drawer a little to see if they've suffocated, and if not, shut the drawer again and keep doing this to the end. Isn't it natural to leave a place where one is so hated?... The heroism of staying is nonetheless merely the heroism of cockroaches which cannot be exterminated, even from the bathroom. Excerpt 2- On Judaism "My people," wrote Kafka, "provided that I have one." What does it mean, to have a people? On no subject are we more sentimental and less able to articulate what we mean. In what, for example, does the continuity of "Blackness" exist? Or "Irishness"? Or "Arabness"? Blood, culture, history, genes? Judaism, with its matrilineal line, has been historically fortunate to have at its root a beautiful answer, elegant in its circular simplicity: Jewishness is the gift of a Jewish mother. But what is a Jewish mother? Regards Taha http://www.powells.com/review/2008_09_01 The Tremendous World I Have Inside My Head: Franz Kafka: A Biographical Essay by Louis Begley F. Kafka, Everyman A review by Zadie Smith *1.* How to describe Kafka, the man? Like this, perhaps: It is as if he had spent his entire life wondering what he looked like, without ever discovering there are such things as mirrors. A naked man among a multitude who are dressed. A mind living in sin with the soul of Abraham. Franz was a saint. Or then again, using details of his life, as found in Louis Begley's refreshingly factual *The Tremendous World I Have Inside My Head: Franz Kafka: A Biographical Essay*: over six feet tall, handsome, elegantly dressed; an unexceptional student, a strong swimmer, an aerobics enthusiast, a vegetarian; a frequent visitor to movie houses, cabarets, all-night cafes, literary soirees and brothels; the published author of seven books during his brief lifetime; engaged three times (twice to the same woman); valued by his employers, promoted at work. But this last Kafka is as difficult to keep in mind as the Pynchon who grocery-shops and attends baseball games, the Salinger who grew old and raised a family in Cornish, New Hampshire. Readers are incurable fabulists. Kafka's case, though, extends beyond literary mystique. He is more than a man of mystery -- he's metaphysical. Readers who are particularly attached to this supra -- Kafka find the introduction of a quotidian Kafka hard to swallow. And vice versa. I spoke once at a Jewish literary society on the subject of time in Kafka, an exploration of the idea -- as the critic Michael Hofmann has it -- that "it is almost always too late in Kafka." Afterward a spry woman in her nineties, with a thick Old World accent, hurried across the room and tugged my sleeve: "But you're quite wrong! I knew Mr. Kafka in Prague -- and he was *never* late." Recent years have seen some Kafka revisionism although what's up for grabs is not the quality of the work, but rather its precise nature. What kind of a writer *is* Kafka? Above all, it's a revision of Kafka's biographical aura. From a witty essay of this kind, by the young novelist and critic Adam Thirlwell: It is now necessary to state some accepted truths about Franz Kafka, and the Kafkaesque.... Kafka's work lies outside literature: it is not fully part of the history of European fiction. He has no predecessors -- his work appears as if from nowhere -- and he has no true successors.... These fictions express the alienation of modern man; they are a prophecy of a) the totalitarian police state, and b) the Nazi Holocaust. His work expresses a Jewish mysticism, a non-denominational mysticism, an anguish of man without God. His work is very serious. He never smiles in photographs.... It is crucial to know the facts of Kafka's emotional life when reading his fiction. In some sense, all his stories are autobiographical. He is a genius, outside ordinary limits of literature, and a saint, outside ordinary limits of human behaviour. All of these truths, all of them, are wrong. Thirlwell blames the banality of the Kafkaesque on Max Brod, Kafka's friend, first biographer, and literary executor, in which latter capacity he defied Kafka's will (Kafka wanted his work burned), a fact that continues to stain Brod, however faintly, with bad faith. For his part, Brod always maintained that Kafka knew there would be no bonfire: if his friend were serious, he would have chosen another executor. Far harder to defend is Brod's subsequent decision to publish the correspondence, the diaries, and the acutely personal *Letter to My Father* (though posthumous literary morality is a slippery thing: if what is found in a drawer is very bad, the shame of it outlives both reader and publisher; when it's as good as *Letter to My Father*, the world winks at it). If few readers of Kafka can be truly sorry for the existence of the works Kafka had consigned to oblivion, many regret the way Brod chose to present them. The problem is not solely Brod's flat-footed interpretations, it's his interventions in the texts themselves. For when it came to editing the novels, Brod's sympathy for the theological would seem to have guided his hand. Kafka's system of ordering chapters was often unclear, occasionally nonexistent; it was Brod who collated *The Trial* in the form with which we are familiar. If it feels like a journey toward an absent God -- so the argument goes -- that's because Brod placed the God-shaped hole at the end. The penultimate chapter, containing the pseudo-haggadic parable "Before the Law," might have gone anywhere, and placing it anywhere else skews the trajectory of ascension; no longer a journey toward the supreme incomprehensibility, but a journey without destination, into which a mystery is thrust and then succeeded by the quotidian once more. Of course, there's also the possibility that Kafka would have placed this chapter near the end, exactly as Brod did, but lovers of Kafka are not inclined to credit him with Brod's variety of common sense. The whole point of Kafka is his uncommonness. Whatever Brod explains, we feel sure Kafka would leave unexplained; whichever conventional interpretation he foists on the works, the works themselves repel. We think of Shakespeare this way, too: a writer sullied by our attempts to define him. In this sense the idea of a literary genius is a gift we give ourselves, a space so wide that we can play in it forever. Thirlwell again: It is important, when reading Kafka, not to read him too Brodly. Take this passage from Brod's 1947 biography: "It is a new kind of smile that distinguishes Kafka's work, a smile close to the ultimate things -- a metaphysical smile so to speak -- indeed sometimes when he used to read out one of his tales for us friends of his, it rose above a smile and we laughed aloud. But we were soon quiet again. It is no laughter befitting human beings. Only angels may laugh this way...." Angels! It is often underestimated, how much talent is required to be a great reader. And Brod was not a great reader, let alone a great writer True. Maybe we can say instead that Brod was a great talent-spotter. Of his own literary capacities, Brod had few illusions. His friendship with Kafka was monstrously one-sided from the start, a thing carved from pure awe. They met after a lecture on Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, given by Brod, after which Kafka approached the lecturer and accompanied him home. "Something seems to have attracted him to me," writes Brod. "He was more open than usual, beginning the endless walk home by disagreeing strongly with my all too rough formulations." The familiar pilgrim's pose, two steps behind the prophet, catching wisdom as it falls. These days we tire of Brod's rough formulations: for too long they set the tone. We don't want to read Kafka Brodly anymore, as the postwar Americans did so keenly. It's tempting to think, had we ourselves been those first readers, that we would have recognized at once -- without such heavy prompting -- the literary greatness of an ex-ape talking to the academy or tiny Josephine "piping" for her mouse people. I wonder. There exists a second Brod account of Kafka reading aloud: We friends of his laughed quite immoderately when he first let us hear the first chapter of *The Trial*. And he himself laughed so much that there were moments when he couldn't read any further. Astonishing enough, when you think of the fearful earnestness of this chapter. Here the crime of Kafka's first biographer is rather benign: a slight overdose of literary respect. Brod couldn't quite believe that Kafka was being funny when he was being funny. For how could Kafka, in his fearful earnestness, be funny? But it's strange: Kafka revisionism is also, after a fashion, in love with Kafkaesque purity. We can't credit the Brodish idea that Kafka writes of "the alienation of modern man" -- too obvious. And how could Kafka be obvious? How could Kafka be anything that we are? Even our demystifications of Kafka are full of mystery. *2.* But if we're not to read Kafka too Brodly, how are we to read him? We might do worse than read him Begley. Gently skeptical of the biographical legend, Begley yet believes in the "metaphysical smile" of the work, the possibility that it expresses our modern alienation -- here prophet Kafka and quotidian Kafka are not in conflict. He deals first, and most successfully, with the quotidian. The Kafka who, like other diarists, indulged a relentless dramaturgy of the self; the compulsive letter-writer who once asked a correspondent, "Don't you get pleasure out of exaggerating painful things as much as possible?" For Kafka, the prospect of a journey from Berlin to Prague is "a foolhardiness whose parallel you can only find by leafing back through the pages of history, say to Napoleon's march to Russia." A brief visit to his fiancée "couldn't have been worse. The next thing will be impalement." The diaries are the same, only more so: few people, even in that solipsistic form, can have written "I" as frequently as he. People and events appear rarely; the beginning of the First World War is a matter to be weighed equally with the fact that he went swimming that day. The Kafka who wrote the fictions was a man of many stories; the private Kafka sang the song of himself: I completely dwelt in every idea, but also filled every idea.... I not only felt myself at my boundary, but at the boundary of the human in general. I am the end or the beginning. Life is merely terrible; I feel it as few others do. Often -- and in my inmost self perhaps all the time -- I doubt that I am a human being. One could quote pages of similar sentiments: Kafka scholars usually do. Thankfully, Begley has more of a comic sense than most Kafka scholars, tending to find Kafka in quite other moods; at times whiny, occasionally wheedling, often slyly disingenuous, and, every now and then, frankly mendacious. The result is something we don't expect. It's a little funny: It turns out we really do keep writing the same thing. Sometimes I ask whether you're sick and then you write about it, sometimes I want to die and then you do, sometimes I want stamps and then you want stamps.... This, writes Begley, is Kafka's characterization (in a moment of despondency) of the letters that he and Milena exchanged [and it] is not far off the mark for many of them, and applies with even greater force to many of the letters to Felice. Certainly the love letters are repetitive; there is something mechanical in them, not deeply felt, at least, not toward their intended recipients -- the sense is of a man writing to himself. Impossible to believe Kafka was in love with poor Felice Bauer, she of the "bony, empty face, that wore its emptiness openly.... Almost broken nose. Blonde, somewhat straight, unattractive hair, strong chin"; Felice with her bourgeois mores, her offer to sit by him as he worked ("in that case," he wrote back, "I could not write at all"), her poor taste in "heavy furniture" (a sideboard of her choosing puts Kafka in mind of "a perfect tombstone or a memorial to the life of a Prague official"). For Kafka she is symbol: the whetstone upon which he sharpens his sense of himself. The occasion of their engagement is the cue to explain to her (and to her father) why he should never marry. The prospect of living with her inspires pages of encomia on solitude. Begley, a fiction writer himself, has an eye for the way fiction writers obsessively preserve their personal space, even while seeming to give it away. You might say he has Kafka's number: It's all there in a nutshell: the charm offensive Kafka commenced with the conquest of Felice as its goal; reflexive flight from that goal as soon as it is within reach; insistence on dealing with her and their future only on his terms; and self-denigration as a potent defense against intimacy that requires more than words. Poor Felice! She never stood a chance. In his introductory letter Kafka claims: I am an erratic letter writer.... On the other hand, I never expect a letter to be answered by return...I am never disappointed when it doesn't come. In fact, counters Begley, The opposite was true: Kafka wrote letters compulsively and copiously and turned into a hysterical despot if they were not answered forthwith, bombarding Felice with cables and remonstrances. Kafka frantically pursued Felice, and then he tried to escape her, Begley writes, "with the single-minded purpose and passion of a fox biting off his own leg to free himself from a trap" -- a line with more than a little Kafka spirit in it. "Women are snares," Kafka said once, "which lie in wait for men on all sides, in order to drag them into the merely finite." It's a perfectly ordinary expression of misogyny, dispiriting in a mind that more often took the less-traveled path. Apropos: having had it suggested to him by a young friend that Picasso was "a wilful distortionist" who painted "rose-coloured women with gigantic feet," Kafka replied: I do not think so.... He only registers the deformities which have not yet penetrated our consciousness. Art is a mirror, which goes "fast," like a watch—sometimes. Kafka's mind was like that, it went wondrous fast—still, when it came to women, it went no faster than the times allowed. Those who find the personal failures of writers personally offensive will turn from Kafka here, as readers turn from Philip Larkin for similar reasons (the family resemblance between the two writers was noted by Larkin himself). In this matter, Kafka has a less judgmental biographer than Larkin found in Andrew Motion; Begley, though perfectly clear on Kafka's "problems with girls," does not much agonize over them. Literary nerds may enjoy the curious fact that for both those literary miserabilists (close neighbors on any decent bookshelf) modern heating appliances appear to have served as synecdoche for what one might call the Feminine Mundane: *He married a woman to stop her getting away Now she's there all day, And the money he gets for wasting his life on work She takes as her perk To pay for the kiddies' clobber and the drier And the electric fire....* I yield not a particle of my demand for a fantastic life arranged solely in the interest of my work; she, indifferent to every mute request, wants the average: a comfortable home, an interest on my part in the factory, good food, bed at eleven, central heating.... Yet as it was with Larkin, Kafka's ideas about women and his experiences of them turn out to be different things. Women were his preferred correspondents and inspiration (in 1912, the Felice correspondence competes with the writing of *Amerika*; in 1913 it wins), his most stimulating intellectual sparring partners (Milena Jesenska, with whom he discussed "the Jewish question"), his closest friends (his favorite sister, Ottla), and finally the means of his escape (Dora Diamant, with whom, in the final year of his life, he moved to Berlin). No, women did not drag Kafka into the finite. As Begley would have it: *the opposite was true*. Usefully, Begley is a rather frequent and politic employer of modifiers and corrections. *In reality*,* the truth was*,* the opposite was true*. Kafka told his diary that the only way he could live was as a sexually ascetic bachelor. In reality he was no stranger to brothels. Begley is particularly astute on the bizarre organization of Kafka's writing day. At the Assicurazioni Generali, Kafka despaired of his twelve-hour shifts that left no time for writing; two years later, promoted to the position of chief clerk at the Workers' Accident Insurance Institute, he was now on the one-shift system, 8:30 AM until 2:30 PM. And then what? Lunch until 3:30, then sleep until 7:30, then exercises, then a family dinner. After which he started work around 11 PM (as Begley points out, the letter -- and diary-writing took up at least an hour a day, and more usually two), and then "depending on my strength, inclination, and luck, until one, two, or three o'clock, once even till six in the morning." Then "every imaginable effort to go to sleep," as he fitfully rested before leaving to go to the office once more. This routine left him permanently on the verge of collapse. Yet when Felice wrote to him...arguing that a more rational organization of his day might be possible, he bristled.... "The present way is the only possible one; if I can't bear it, so much the worse; but I will bear it somehow." It was Brod's opinion that Kafka's parents should gift him a lump sum "so that he could leave the office, go off to some cheap little place on the Riviera to create those works that God, using Franz's brain, wishes the world to have." Begley, leaving God out of it, politely disagrees, finding Brod's wish probably misguided. Kafka's failure to make even an attempt to break out of the twin prisons of the Institute and his room at the family apartment may have been nothing less than the choice of the way of life that paradoxically best suited him. It is rare that writers of fiction sit behind their desks, actually writing, for more than a few hours a day. Had Kafka been able to use his time efficiently, the work schedule at the Institute would have left him with enough free time for writing. As he recognized, the truth was that he wasted time. *The truth was that he wasted time!* The writer's equivalent of the dater's revelation: *He's just not that into you*. "Having the Institute and the conditions at his parents' apartment to blame for the long fallow periods when he couldn't write gave Kafka cover: it enabled him to preserve some of his self-esteem." And here Begley introduces yet another Kafka we rarely think of, a writer in competition with other writers in a small Prague literary scene, measuring himself against the achievements of his peers. For in 1908, Kafka had published only eight short prose pieces in *Hyperion*, while Brod had been publishing since he was twenty; his close friend Oskar Baum was the successful author of one book of short stories and one novel; and Franz Werfel—seven years Kafka's junior—had a critically acclaimed collection of poems. In 1911, Kafka writes in his diary: "I hate Werfel, not because I envy him, but I envy him too. He is healthy, young and rich, everything that I am not." And later in that same year: Envy of the apparent success of Baum whom I like so much. With this, the feeling of having in the middle of my body a ball of wool that quickly winds itself up, its innumerable threads pulling from the surface of my body to itself. Of course, that wool ball -- a throwaway line in a diary! -- reminds us how little call he had to envy anyone. *3.* The impossibility of not writing, the impossibility of writing German, the impossibility of writing differently. One might add a fourth impossibility, the impossibility of writing.... Thus what has resulted was a literature impossible in all respects, a gypsy literature which had stolen the German child out of its cradle and in great haste put it through some kind of training, for someone had to dance on the tightrope. (But it wasn't a German child, it was nothing; people merely said that somebody was dancing.) A perfect slice of Kafka. On May 3, 1913, Kafka's diary conceives of a butcher's knife "quickly and with mechanical regularity chop[ping] into me from the side," slicing thin, Parma ham style, *pezzi di Kafka.*... The quote above is like that: it has the marbled mark of Kafka running through it. It traces a typical Kafka journey, from the concrete, to the metaphorical, to the allegorical, to the notional, which last—as so often with Kafka -- seems to grow obscure the more precisely it is expressed. From this same quote Begley efficiently unpacks Kafka's "frightful inner predicament," born of his strange historical moment. A middle-class Prague Jew ("the most Western-Jewish of them all") both enamored of and horrified by an Eastern shtetl life he never knew; a Jew in a period of virulent anti-Semitism ("I've been spending every afternoon outside in the streets, wallowing in anti-Semitic hate") who remained ambivalent toward the Zionist project; a German speaker surrounded by Czech nationalists. The impossible "gypsy literature" an aspect of an impossible gypsy self, an assimilated Judaism that was fatally neither one thing or the other. In Kafka's world there were really two "Jewish questions." The first was external, asked by Gentiles, and is familiar: "What is to be done with the Jews?" For which the answer was either persecution or "toleration," that vile word. (Writing to Brod from an Italian *pensione*, Kafka describes being barely tolerated at lunch by an Austrian general who has just found out he is Jewish: "From politeness he brought our little chat to a sort of end before he hurried out with long strides.... Why must I be a thorn in flesh?") The second Jewish question, the one that Kafka asked himself, was existential: "What have I in common with Jews?" Begley does not shy from citing this and many of the other quotations "used by scholars to buttress the argument that Kafka was himself a Jewish anti-Semite, a self-hating Jew": I admire Zionism and am nauseated by it. At times I'd like to stuff them all, simply as Jews (me included) into, say, the drawer of the laundry chest. Next I'd wait, open the drawer a little to see if they've suffocated, and if not, shut the drawer again and keep doing this to the end. Isn't it natural to leave a place where one is so hated?... The heroism of staying is nonetheless merely the heroism of cockroaches which cannot be exterminated, even from the bathroom. To this evidence, Freudians add exhibit number one: fantasies of self-slaughter ("Between throat and chin would seem to be the most rewarding place to stab"), shadowing Kafka's lineage (grandson of the butcher of Wossek), and those tales of Jewish ritual murder that are as old as anti-Semitism itself. For Begley, though, the accusation of auto-anti-Semitism is "unfair and, in the end, beside the point." He sees rather the conflicted drama of assimilation: "The fear was of a crack in the veneer...through which might enter the miasma of the shtetl or the medieval ghetto." In this version, affection and repulsion are sides of the same coin: It would have been surprising if he, who was so repelled by his own father's vulgarity at table and in speech, had not been similarly repelled by the oddities of dress, habits, gestures, and speech of the very Jews of whom he made a fetish, because of the community spirit, cohesiveness, and genuine emotional warmth he was convinced they possessed. It's an awkward argument that struggles to recast repulsion as "the cumulative effect on Kafka of the ubiquitous anti-Semitism" all around him, which in turn caused a kind of "profound fatigue," compelling him to "transcend his Jewish experience and his Jewish identity" so that he might write "about the human condition" -- a conclusion that misses the point entirely, for Kafka found the brotherhood of man quite as incomprehensible as the brotherhood of Jews. For Kafka, the impossible thing was collectivity itself: What have I in common with Jews? I have hardly anything in common with myself, and should stand very quietly in a corner, content that I can breathe. Kafka's horror is not Jewishness per se, because it is not a horror only of Jewishness: it is a horror of all shared experience, all shared being, all * genus*. In a time and place in which national, linguistic, and racial groups were defined with ever more absurd precision, how could the very idea of commonness not turn equally absurd? In his *Memoirs of an Anti-Semite*, fellow Austro-Hungarian Gregor von Rezzori presented the disquieting idea that the philo-Semite and the anti-Semite have something essential in common (the narrator is both): a belief in a collective Jewish nature, a Semiteness. Kafka, by contrast, had stopped believing. The choice of belonging to a people, of partaking of a shared nature, was no longer available to him. He often wished it was not so (hence his sentimental affection for shtetl life), but it *was* so. On this point, Begley quotes Hannah Arendt approvingly though he does not pursue her brilliant conclusion: ...These men [assimilated German Jews] did not wish to "return" either to the ranks of the Jewish people or to Judaism, and could not desire to do so -- not because... they were too "assimilated" and too alienated from their Jewish heritage, but because all traditions and cultures as well as all "belonging" had become equally questionable to them." Jewishness itself had become the question. It is a mark of how disconcerting this genuinely Kafkaesque concept is that it should provoke conflict in Begley himself. "My people," wrote Kafka, "provided that I have one." What does it mean, to have a people? On no subject are we more sentimental and less able to articulate what we mean. In what, for example, does the continuity of "Blackness" exist? Or "Irishness"? Or "Arabness"? Blood, culture, history, genes? Judaism, with its matrilineal line, has been historically fortunate to have at its root a beautiful answer, elegant in its circular simplicity: Jewishness is the gift of a Jewish mother. But what is a Jewish mother? Kafka found her so unstable a thing, a mistranslation might undo her: Yesterday it occurred to me that I did not always love my mother as she deserved and as I could, only because the German language prevented it. The Jewish mother is no "Mutter," to call her "Mutter" makes her a little comical.... "Mutter" is peculiarly German for the Jew, it unconsciously contains, together with the Christian splendor, Christian coldness also, the Jewish woman who is called "Mutter" therefore becomes not only comical but strange.... I believe that it is only the memories of the ghetto that still preserve the Jewish family, for the word "Vater" too is far from meaning the Jewish father. Kafka's Jewishness was a kind of dream, whose authentic moment was located always in the nostalgic past. His survey of the insectile situation of young Jews in Inner Bohemia can hardly be improved upon: "With their posterior legs they were still glued to their father's Jewishness, and with their waving anterior legs they found no new ground." Alienation from oneself, the conflicted assimilation of migrants, losing one place without gaining another.... This feels like Kafka in the genuine clothes of an existential prophet, Kafka in his twenty-first-century aspect (if we are to assume, as with Shakespeare, that every new century will bring a Kafka close to our own concerns). For there is a sense in which Kafka's Jewish question ("What have I in common with Jews?") has become everybody's question, Jewish alienation the template for all our doubts. What is Muslimness? What is Femaleness? What is Polishness? What is Englishness? These days we all find our anterior legs flailing before us. We're all insects, all *Ungeziefer*, now. Zadie Smith is the author of three novels, most recently On Beauty . From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 12:41:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:41:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] protests against Gaza Siege - ideological arrogance In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901132201g722277d6r430e0777eebb8933@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901081229o2bfcf364jcb01f3e3fd1a28b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901112119y23715278i126cf303e578eba1@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901122148t359e8841l94978c92e129ac21@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901132201g722277d6r430e0777eebb8933@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan (and all) First of all, thanks for this article as it explains the thinking and the mindsets of the Pandits, and this is important to know for the understanding of the Kashmir dispute and possible solutions to it. Let me respond to some of the points which are pointed out in it. As the article itself points out, Kashmiri Pandits have lost faith in all parties across the state and at the Centre, for having totally neglected them or even betrayed them. This is understandable, for nobody came to their rescue during 1989, when violence was allowed to take place without any measures taken to control it(this is something I don't know about, I am presuming here that no measures were taken; if some measures were indeed taken, I would be glad if anybody could post about them here, and as to whether they were properly implemented or not). Then how come Pandits believe that a homeland which would be a Union Territory, would be something which would be trustworthy enough to live in. If the Pandits can't trust Congres, BJP, PDP, National Conference (this is evident from the article itself) and others, how can they trust the Central Govt, which would involve at least one of these parties? And even if a UT were formed, and same situation arises, what would the Pandits then do? After all, when Rajasthan Govt could not do anything about the law and order situation when Gujjars were on streets, what will a UT do to stop such a kind of agitation? Infact, violence against the agitators may turn out to be counter productive, both from electoral point of view, and also, from the political and ideological point of view in Kashmir. The reason I am raising this question is because the UT demand seems to be raised as Pandits have lost faith in the Valley Muslims and even political parties. The trust factor is certainly one which is missing. The Pandits have seen a betrayal of their trust by the Indian Govt, for a long time. Having said that, I don't understand how can they trust the same government then under a UT? And of course, I didn't get the answer to one query which I was asking earlier as well, why a UT and not a democracy?? The probable reason I have received is that since the majority people are Muslims and hence separatists, or want to break away from India, hence making a democracy will ensure that parties which rule Kashmir, have antipathy towards the Pandits (who are nationalists and hence pro-India people) and will only try to further secede from India. To which my answer would be this. As I mentioned earlier, any state should be a part of India when it's citizens feel the need to do so, based on whatever reason they may have. If we unnecessarily keep any state as a part of India without it's consent, the only way to do is military rule, which will only further make those people our enemies. The end result is violence. Look at the LTTE. It may be created by RAW, but it managed to get foothold in Srilanka, because Tamils never felt they got proper rights there, and infact were tortured by the Sinhalese majority. If Sri lanka would have granted autonomy to Tamils, and made their state principle as equality, then no violence would have occurred. Instead for the last 30 years they have been suffering. And they continue to suffer. And this includes both Tamils and Sinhalese, basically, the entire Sri lanka. It's against democratic rights to force authoritarian control over the state. And hence, if Kashmiris don't wish to be a part of India, howsoever much I may or may not like, howsoever much people may or may not like, it's our duty to see that we don't force ourselves upon them. This is something which my own religion makes me feel. (Hinduism, according to me, is not based upon Rama or Krishna idols. It's based upon dharma, or duty). Having said that, I have one poser for the Kashmiri Muslims as well. The state they wish to form, what will it's character be? Will it have space for secular traditions, or will it be simply be Islamic, with all those not following Islam being persecuted? Will Kashmiri Pandits be invited to be a part of such a state, or will they be thrown out? Will this mean that they will try to follow the spirit of Kashmiriyat, or will they try to only serve the cause of violence, and end up trying to be a pure Islamic republic, like Pakistan, and destroying themselves and others in the process? Will the nature of state of Kashmir be same as that of Pakistan and India, in the sense of autocracy which they follow while unleashing violence on innocents? Or will be there space for dissent in a proper way? If these questions are not answered, there is no meaning of a separate Kashmir state. It will be simply a clone of India or Pakistan kind of nationalism. And this will lead only to further disasters across the subcontinent region and the entire world. My view on this is very fuzzy I am not sure this will work or not, but I do speak it out. Let the views of the people be respected. Let there be a referendum in the Valley. Let the people decide what they wish to do. At the same time, let it be clear that Pandits will return back to their homeland, and the Valley Muslims must understand this is a legitimate exercise. If the Pandits feel they are Indians but would still like to survive in the Valley, let there be an exercise to ensure they can live as Indian citizens even in an independent state. May be they can't be allowed to vote, but let them have some rights as citizens. Infact, it's shameful that Muslims couldn't get the Pandits to back them, and vice versa, which has in some sense given communal color to both demands of azadi and Indian sovereignty in the region. And the Valley must ensure that they take care of these people as well, because after all, what happens in Kashmir has repercussion not only on Kashmiris but also on the entire region and the world. I know my suggestions will be probably viewed as stupid. And some may say, well it has never happened in the world. For them, I would just say that it's not necessary that something should have happened in the past before for it to be done again. Einstein has proved it. Gandhi has proved it. Many have proved it. And it will be proved again and again, both in good and bad sense. Mind you, I am not very clear myself. And what I said, is only one of the possibly million alternatives which may have been thought about. For the suggestion on UT, it's not only Pandits who live in that area, but also the Valley Muslims. Since one community has asked for UT status to be delivered, let there be a referendum on the same issue, and if a substantial part agrees, make that a UT. Just as the dadagiri of the Valley Muslims to drive out Pandits is not acceptable, the forcible conversion of a part of a state into a UT can't be acceptable. I am sorry, sir, but this can't be right. Because two wrongs never make a right. Regards Rakesh From megan at futuresonic.com Tue Jan 13 23:10:54 2009 From: megan at futuresonic.com (Megan Vaughan) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:40:54 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Futuresonic festival 09 Message-ID: <2F738A453C934D6D99CFA57BFF2F71F8@Johnny> |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| FutureEverything and Futuresonic News http://www.futuresonic.com |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 1. In 2010 Futuresonic will return as FutureEverything Futuresonic 2009 will be the 10th edition and 14th calendar year of the festival. Over these fourteen years the festival has been creatively led, with the focus of the festival not only sound, but also visual arts, digital culture and social themes. In 2010 Futuresonic will return as FutureEverything - making 2009 the last chance to experience a "Futuresonic" festival. "FutureEverything is a new name that captures a lot about the character of the festival. From 2010, we look forward to all the festival's international participants and partners joining us on a new journey as a part of the first FutureEverything festival." - Drew Hemment, founder and Artistic Director |||||||||||||||| 2. Futuresonic 2009 The artistic programme for the 2009 festival looks to be the strongest yet. Futuresonic 2009 takes place 13-16 May, and will feature 250 artists across 100 events at 30 venues. The full festival programme will be announced in February 2009. |||||||||||||||| 3. Futuresonic at Transmediale09 The 2009 theme, Environment 2.0, is the culmination of 3 years of activities and will be presented and discussed in an event at Transmediale09 in Berlin during January and in an accompanying catalogue text on the Environment 2.0 theme by Drew Hemment, the Artistic Director of FutureEverything and Futuresonic 2009. |||||||||||||||| 4. Lever Prize 2009 FutureEverything has been shortlisted for the 2009 Lever Prize. The highly acclaimed prize is awarded on the basis of a range of factors including regional individuality, high standard of existing work and exciting future developments. |||||||||||||||| 5. Prix Ars Electronica 2009 FutureEverything's Artistic Director, Drew Hemment, has been awarded an Honorary Mention by Prix Ars Electronica 2009. The Prix Ars Electronica award is the equivalent of the Oscars for digital arts. |||||||||||||||| 6. FutureEverything Team Seven fantastic new people have joined the team at FutureEverything to help realise the ambition of the festival and other year-round projects, including three programme managers for the Art, Music and Ideas strands, plus new key people in marketing, production, research and administration. |||||||||||||||| 7. Futuresonic 2008 Futuresonic 2008 featured 5 days and nights of live music, art premieres, exhibitions, club nights and events with a world-class programme of over 350 artists attended by 50,000 people in 30 venues and spaces across the city centre. |||||||||||||||| 8. International Events The "highly respected" Futuresonic festival was invited to participate in international events, from the prestigious International Symposium for Electronic Arts (ISEA) in Singapore to the Numusic festival in Norway. |||||||||||||||| 9. Social Technologies Summit A highlight of the 2008 festival was the Social Technologies Summit with over 900 attendees. Launched in 2006, the summit has been made a regular annual event alongside the Futuresonic festival and 2009 themes build on the successes of 2008. |||||||||||||||| 10. FuturesFamily - Artists In Residence FuturesFamily is a new Artists In Residence initiative from FutureEverything, established to nurture artists at the very cutting edge of art, music and ideas. Our family have been hand selected for their innovation and experimentation, driving forward our ethos to challenge and inspire. |||||||||||||||| 11. International Network FutureEverything / Futuresonic have led in the establishment of an international network of music festivals called ECAS. Fifteen Festival Directors have attended Futuresonic, and FutureEverything / Futuresonic have participated in other international festivals in Europe and North America. |||||||||||||||| 12. Support from Partners FutureEverything / Futuresonic have received strong support from partners and funders in 2008: Awarded 'Pillar Event' status by Manchester City Council, 'Regularly Funded Organisation' (RFO) status by Arts Council England, and a 3 year funding award by Paul Hamlyn Foundation. |||||||||||||||| 13. ImaginationLancaster ImaginationLancaster, where FutureEverything's and Futuresonic's Drew Hemment is Associate Director, has been awarded #5million by the EPSRC Digital Economies programme to establish a Doctoral Training Centre, one of only five in the Digital Economies programme awarded nationally. |||||||||||||||| 14. Research Activities FutureEverything has been awarded funding from the CREATOR cluster of the EPSRC Digital Economies programme to undertake a pioneering research project on creative interdisciplinary practice on the Environment. This research will culminate in a comprehensive report on the successes of such practices by a range of leading international artists, designers, makers and thinkers. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Futuresonic 2009 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 13-16 May, Manchester UK Transforming the city into a space of experimentation, making it come alive Futuresonic has 4 strands: Art, Music, Ideas and EVNTS. Currently in its 14th year, the festival occupies the orbits of both music and digital culture. Futuresonic is presented by FutureEverything CIC. It is a Regularly Funded Organisation (RFO) of Arts Council England North West and is supported by Manchester City Council. Futuresonic is presented in partnership with ImaginationLancaster http://imagination.lancaster.ac.uk, a major new research lab at Lancaster University. Futuresonic is presented by FutureEverything CIC. http://www.futuresonic.com From difusion at medialab-prado.es Wed Jan 14 22:35:36 2009 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:05:36 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Last days: Call for collaborators> INTERACTIVOS?'09: GARAGE SCIENCE Message-ID: <496E1B60.1030603@medialab-prado.es> CALL FOR COLLABORATORS *INTERACTIVOS?'09: GARAGE SCIENCE *International Project Development Workshop *Deadline for collaborators: January 25 **Workshop & Seminar dates: January 28 - February 14 Venue: Medialab-Prado (Madrid, Spain) * Interactivos?'09: Garage Science is an intensive project development workshop led by Critical Art Ensemble, Julian Bleecker, and Natalie Jeremijenko. Collaborators will participate in the development of selected prototypes, that combine open software, hardware and biology. Collaborators' profile: biology, chemistry, anthropology, physics, mechanics, electronics, free software/hardware, handcraft, DYI, low budget design, Arduino, microcontrollers, GPS, Java, AS3, Processing, Pure Data, C++, physical computing, fabbing, interface design, A/V creation, text analytics/information extraction/NLP, urban/permaculture/organic farming, etc. No entry fees. More information and online submission form: http://medialab-prado.es/article/interactivos09_ciencia_de_garaje_convocatoria_para_colaboradores Organized by Medialab-Prado. Department of Arts. Madrid City Council. interactivos / at / medialab-prado.es -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 21:51:22 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:21:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] petition against Tatas, Ambanis and Mittal's supporting Modi Message-ID: <262483.78897.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Ranjan Kamath Subject: Cellular Silence Day _ 30th January 2009 Date: Thursday, 15 January, 2009, 8:11 PM Dear Friend The collective amnesia of the captains of Indian industry, Messrs.Tata, Mittal and Ambani embracing Narendra Modi and endorsing his candidature as future PM of India, disturbed me immensely. This petition is my humble effort to engage the conscience of corporate India and make it known to them that the Indian citizen is not to be trifled with.Just as we can vote for or against the poitician, we can pinch the corporate bottom-line in order to engage their attention to mend their ways. It is not an easy task for us to keep our cell phones and Blackberries switched off for an entire day on January 30th,- the 61st anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi's assassination. However, it ought to be sufficient to get the message across to corporate India that we will not tolerate the endorsement of fascists as future Prime Ministers. May I request you visit the link below to sign and thereafter circulate the petition below, if you feel as strongly about this matter sincerely Ranjan Kamath The petition title is: Cellular Silence Day_30th January 2009. The petition URL is: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/30JAN09/petition.html The petition is directed to: India Inc. The start date is: ..January 15th, 2009 The end date is: ..January 30th, 2009 The petition statement says: Dear Messrs, Ratan Tata, Sunil Mittal and Anil Ambani I am one of a billion Indian citizens. I am somewhere in the middle of that pyramid that you wish to give voice - from bottom to top - through wealth creation. I am proud of the brands you represent that have made India proud. I am one of the burgeoning Indian middle-class that share your aspirations of mutating India from indolent elephant to thundering tiger. It ends there... I have hitherto been accused of being indifferent and apathetic, simply because I am overawed and felt overwhelmed in a system replete with Goliaths. But when I saw you embrace the fascist mastermind of state sponsored genocide as a future Prime Minister and endorse the Modi-fication of India, it was disappointingly apparent that the brands that aspire to make India rich shall continue to languish in ethical poverty. While I am filled with revulsion at your endorsement of Narendra Modi, I must respect your right to do so as a fellow citizen. In writing this petition I am a mere David amongst the mightiest corporate Goliaths but I feel empowered to address your collective amnesia - through recollection of the Gujarat pogrom of 2002 - by the true Goliath among Gujaratis in particular and Indians in general - Mohandas Gandhi. All those who sign this petition will switch off their Tata Indicomm, Airtel and Reliance cellular phone and broadband connections from midnight on January 30th 2009. It is eminently possible that I might be the one voice in a billion who will observe the 61st death anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi on as Cellular Silence Day. Then again, there might be close to a billion who could join me on January 30th, 2009 expressing their solidarity and silently insisting that the captains of India Inc adopt an ethical, compassionate path to wealth creation rather than the single-minded pursuit of the bottom-line. We shall know that by the end of 30th January, 2009 From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 15 23:24:22 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:54:22 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Tonite - Artist Dialog with Peter Halley, Yale University, NY Message-ID: <3496B40E-1B8D-4B57-9731-FE3C07DA6963@earthlink.net> Hey y'all - I have a show currently up at Robert Miller Gallery - it opens on Jan 8, 2009. There will be artist/composer dialogs every Thursday of January around my show. The trailer for the project is at: www.djspooky.com/art/terra_nova.php Tonite is a dialog with Peter Halley, Chair of Yale University's Art Department for Painting. I hope some folks from the list can make it. There will be a wide variety of people at the dialog in peace, Paul aka Dj Spooky So far: the dialogs are as follows: Gallery show opened on Jan 8, 2009 Then: Every Thursday of January: 6-8pm Sound + Image: Composers in dialog about contemporary art and composition "Meet The Composer" is media sponsor for the events. Sound + Image Laura Kuhn - Director of the John Cage Trust Foundation is in dialog with me on Jan 10 Peter Halley - Chair of Yale University's Art Department for Painting is in dialog with me on Jan 15 Carol Becker - Dean of Columbia University's School of The Arts is in dialog with me on Jan 22 Paul Cantalone (Oliver Stone's sound track composer - did the score for W), Carter Burwell (soundtrack composer for No Country for Old Men), and Ronen Givony (curator, Wordless Music Festival), are in dialog with me on Jan 29 Here's the press release for the project: North/South Robert Miller Gallery is pleased to announce its first exhibition of the work of Paul Miller. In 2008 Miller went to Antarctica to shoot a film about the sound of ice, and ended up creating an installation out of the journey. For Robert Miller Gallery, Paul Miller recasts the epic detritus of the art and other cultural worlds as skillfully handled archival video samplings, digital prints, and drawings, calling into question the value of appropriation and the status of the copy. Finding inspiration in historic documents and films like James F. Cook's infamous 1912 film "The Truth about the Pole" (a false narrative made by the "explorer" using the North Pole as a film studio, Cook tried to portray himself in a documentary he self- financed as the true discoverer of the North Pole), and rare images of Admiral Byrd's 1939 voyage to the South Pole, Miller explores the range of "truth" in modern portrayals of the explorer's path. In 2007-2008 Miller spent four weeks in Antarctica re-tracing several explorers' journeys and with his "North/South" show at Robert Miller gallery, he reconstructs a collage of their journals and ephemera in multiple contexts. Using materials as diverse as John Cage's 1938 "Imaginary Landscape #1" as an inspiration (it was the first composition written for turntables) Miller looks at how documents and archival materials influence perception of history and the search for the explorer's goal of defining new frontiers. In "North/South" he deftly recontextualizes the rhetorical tropes of music notation and graphic design to mine the intersection of public and personal. A deejay and writer, Miller maps his ongoing relationship with the past, present, and future of music, using record collections, musical taxonomies, and play-lists as impetus for portraits and cultural critiques to blur the lines between how composers create and artists design work based on a seamless dialog between "sampling" and originality. This exhibition of new work will incorporate digital prints, works on paper, and a video installation to define a sonic landscape/timeline that begins around the turn of the first millennium and projects centuries ahead into the future for concepts such as "A Manifesto for a People's Republic of Antarctica." Drawing on a history of music's ups and downs in terms of mountains and valleys, water and above all, ice, Miller expands on the tradition of landscape portraiture, creating a topography of music spanning across every wall of the gallery. North/South is comprised of four sections: 1) Notations – a contemporary response to John Cage, 2) Appropriation of O, a collaboration with artist Ann Hamilton, 3) Rodchenko, Revisited – an exploration of Miller's graphic design of prints for a fictional revolution in Antarctica, and 4) North/South – a video installation juxtaposing Admiral Byrd and James F. Cook's respective voyages to the South and North Poles, with historical documents of other famous and infamous voyages to Antarctica and the Arctic. Miller translates the possibilities of music's futures into graphic terms of an almost science-fictional account in images of a revolution in Antarctica. His backward and forward glance, though, embraces its own subjective account, bringing Miller's own thoughts on history (and its representation) to the forefront. His "People's Republic of Antarctica" does not attempt to be a definitive narrative on music's relationship to revolution, but instead one that exists at the interface of his personal vision and that of a shared popular culture. Miller's video installation is an acoustic portrait of Antarctica's relationship to the "Great Game" of national interests in claiming the wilderness of the South Pole. Miller's composed score for the video materials is based on gamelan shadow theater, and electronic music's ability to re-define geography's relationship to "authenticity" – natural sounds versus their reconstruction in digital media are motifs for the composition that accompanies the installation. While using sound within installations has a tradition in contemporary art, Miller conflates its use within a fine-art context with other ways in which music reaches the public. Miller postulates that you are your own archive. His composition "Terra Nova" was written while he was in Antarctica for 4 weeks, and it offers an extended trip through Miller's sound art palette. Paul Miller was born in 1970 in New York. In 2004, his exhibition Rebirth of a Nation, a remix of D.W. Griffith's infamous "Birth of a Nation" was installed as "Path is Prologue" where it premiered at the Paula Cooper Gallery, and then traveled as a live multi-media opera to over fifty widely acclaimed venues, such as the Herod Atticus Theater at the base of the Acropolis and the Théâtre du Châtelet in Paris. His works have been performed at locations as diverse as the Tate Modern and The Guggenheim and he has had numerous exhibitions in the United States and abroad, including solo shows at the Annina Nosei Gallery and he has also curated group exhibits at Jeffrey Deitch gallery. In addition, Miller has been included in the 1997 and 2002 Whitney Biennial, the 2004 Venice Biennial of Architecture, and 2007 Venice Biennial's "Africa Pavilion." In 2004 he published a critically acclaimed and award winning book "Rhythm Science" about the relationship of graphic design and contemporary music, and in 2008, he edited an anthology of writings on sound art, digital media, and contemporary composition entitled "Sound Unbound" (both, MIT Press), featuring Pierre Boulez, Steve Reich, Hans Ulrich Obrist, Brian Eno, Moby, Chuck D, Saul Williams, Jonathan Lethem, Daphne Keller (Senior Legal Counsel to Google) and many others. In addition to his art works, he tours the world constantly as Dj Spooky - a very "in-demand" world famous dj. He currently lives and works in New York. Terra Nova, the composition based on Miller's journey to Antarctica will be premiering in NY as a headlining event of Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival 2009, and will tour opera houses for the next several years. The Robert Miller Gallery 524 W26th Street New York New York, 10001 Tel: 1 212 366 4774 Fax: 1 212 366 4454 Email: rmg at robertmillergallery.com Gallery Hours: Tuesday Through Saturday, 10am to 6pm From vashsand at hotmail.com Thu Jan 15 23:25:39 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:55:39 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Gaza and fetish of national liberation Message-ID: Aryan Guard at Gaza protest Annalise Klingbeil, Calgary Herald Published: Monday, January 12, 2009 Calgarians were surprised Saturday to see members of the Aryan Guard, a white supremacist, neo-Nazi group, at a local protest of Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip. "Basically, polar opposites were protesting together," said Robert Thivierge, who attended the pro-test to take photographs and was surprised to see the Aryan Guard peacefully marching alongside protesters of all nationalities. "It seemed kind of weird,"said Thivierge. Email to a friendPrinter friendly Font: * * * * Saturday's protest in Calgary, which drew an estimated 1,200 people, was one of many held across the country inwhichCanadians called for an end to the Israeli-Hamas conflict. At the Calgary protest, members of the Aryan Guard held a modified Israel flag that read "Terror State" and marched from City Hall to the Harry Hays building, near the front of the crowd. The day after the protest, Shadi Abuid, one of the event's organizers, said he thought the rally went off without a hitch. "It went very well. I was impressed with the turnout and the various groups uniting under one voice," said Abuid. Abuid said organizers were aware the neo-Nazi group was present and they told the group they were not welcome. "We addressed them at the beginning of the rally and we directly told them we didn't want them to join us," said Abuid. "But in these demonstrations you can control the crowd but you can't control the emotions . . . you can't deny people's right to walk." Jason Devine, spokesman for Anti-Racist Action Calgary, at-tended the protest and estimates about five or six members of the white supremacist group were present. Devine called it "unfortunate" that the neo-Nazis did not face much opposition at the protest. "They were not supposed to be there. They were not wanted there," said Devine. "If we don't develop a plan for dealing with this in the future, it's going to continue." The Herald was unable to contact anyone from the local Aryan Guard. http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=1168132 _________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 16 04:17:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:47:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] The 7th Government Discussion Forum on Electronic Identity Documents unveils global trends Message-ID: <65be9bf40901151447m7be1f391u198d36884178a0e8@mail.gmail.com> Dear All It seems that the city state of Dubai which is desperately looking for other- than- oil avenues of business has entered the smart card game in a big way. The key words to emerge from the ongoing inter governmental discussion were 'standardization and interoperability'. At the story below indicates the consensus obviously emerged 'behind close doors'. I wonder what were the reasons presented for 'standardization and interoperability'? Why go for standardization and interoperability? Were those reasons related to public policy or were they dealt with the ease of the corporates? You know. Delivery issues. That you may manufacture smart cards in say,China, because of xyz factors and deliver anywhere in the world. Or were those reasons got to do with separation of the territory or market? We don't know as yet. It would be interesting to have a range of stories related to smart card, national id card, from all the participating countries. India was one, so was UK, Egypt and UAE. I think as it is quite clear from the Indian context that the legitimizing argument to introduce smart national id card was the rhetoric of 'illegal immigrants'. For us at the reader-list I think we should start incorporating stories from other countries too, to analyse whether the legitimizing argument remains the same or different. If it is different in other countries then we need to ask that what is the nature of that difference? How are different populations/users/citizens made to give their consent for the introduction of National identity card and why? Regards Taha http://www.ameinfo.com/181220.html The 7th Government Discussion Forum on Electronic Identity Documents organized by the Dubai Naturalisation and Residency Department (DNRD) from January 13-15 under the patronage of Lt.Gen. H.H. Sheikh Saif Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, UAE Minister of Interior, saw experts from around the world discuss the best global practices on the implementation of e-passports, smart identity cards and automated border control systems. Over 60 countries, mainly in Europe and Asia, are currently using e-passports. Delegates from over 35 participating countries including Japan, Germany, Italy, UK, United States, India, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the UAE presented 15 case studies on the first day of the conference. Key speakers included Nobuko Hamada, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Japan who gave an update on Japan's e-passport project and Mohammad Aseeri, from the Ministry of Interior of Saudi Arabia, who offered an update on the Kingdom's ID Card Program. Also speaking at the conference was Mark Edwards, HM Inspector, UK Border Agency, Home Office, in the UK who presented a case study on automated passenger clearance. Lt. Colonel Khalid Nasser Alrazooqi, Assistant Director of the IT Sector at DNRD, presented a groundbreaking case study covering the implementation of border security and identity management for Dubai. The second case study was presented by Lt. Mohamed Bin Hashim, IT Sector at DNRD which focused on the introduction of DNRD's AMER self-service kiosk which provides automated visa and passport services to nationals and residents of the UAE. The AMER kiosk is currently operational at the DNRD's headquarter. Today's closed door sessions included a discussion on electronic identity system standardization and interoperability, introduced by Dr. Tim Jurgensen, Consultant from the National Institute of Standards and Technology, in the USA. Eckart Brauer, from the German Federal Ministry of the Interior introduced a session on issues of secure authentication of e-passports and Greg Pote, Chairman of the Asia Pacific Smart Card Association (APSCA), led one of the final discussions of the day on the challenges of national eID cards. Lt. Colonel Khalid Nasser Alrazooqi commented, 'Today's closed door sessions are critical in sharing ideas and experience in matters of biometrics, e-passports, and border security, which will continue to help us grow, develop and maintain the highest quality of customer service and security standards.' Stated Greg Pote, Chairman of APSCA, organizer of the forum said: 'The highlights from today's closed and open door sessions included the discussion of bilateral and multilateral agreements in the field of automated border projects based on biometric schemes which aim at facilitating travel for trusted passengers and increasing security and control of individuals with suspicious records.' The 7th Government Discussion Forum on Electronic Identity Documents Forum will continue for the final day, until the 15th of January, and will conclude with a tour of the Dubai International Airport. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 16 04:41:15 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:11:15 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt plans smart cards for gulf emigrants Message-ID: <65be9bf40901151511q93da40ewcfba5499c935e736@mail.gmail.com> Dear all As the story below indicates, what the government of india is doing is nothing but a classic case of -testing-. Fingerprints for instance when they were first introduced back in the early 20th century were used only for peripheral populations of criminals, insane and POW. Till big corporates stumbled upon a new market of security. Now fingerprint technology is so common that even laptops have it. Hence it does not come as a -surprise- when the government asks every citizen to be fingerprinted. No one asks why fingerprints, aren't they supposedly meant for 'criminal population' only? or What will happen to the data gleaned from the fingerprints? or Who will access that data? or in What ways will the insight so gained from accessing that data will be used? Everyone just seems to give their fingerprint because, I think, such is the trust we have on our governments. Similarly with the new smart card technology a very sleek rhetoric of efficiency and interoperability is being pushed forth, as the story below suggests, the discourse of 'efficiency and security' is being -tested- on a small peripheral population of foreign workers before the big shift to Indian nationals will happen. Regards Taha http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/govt-plans-smart-cards-for-gulf-emigrants/18/54/345701/ Govt plans smart cards for gulf emigrants BS Reporter / Chennai January 09, 2009, 0:36 IST The government is planning to issue smart cards to the workers who are immigrating to the Gulf countries for jobs. The Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs is planning to make it mandatory. K Mohandas, secretary, Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs said on the sidelines of 7th edition of Pravasi Bharatiya Divas, that currently the project is in design stage. The department has appointed Hyderabad-based National Institute of Smart Governance to carry out a study including the cost and about the stakeholders. The project design is expected to be ready by May 2009, and it will be implemented immediately in a month or two. To start with, the Ministry is planning to introduce the programme for Gulf countries. Then it will be introduced to other countries in phased manner. "The card would contain all details of the worker including immigrant's personal details, passport details, work contract, employer details and his insurance. This data will be available to the government as well as our missions overseas," he added. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 16 12:49:04 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:19:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Canada gets serious on passport photos Message-ID: <65be9bf40901152319id85923dhde3b27e1479ddfd2@mail.gmail.com> *Dear All In continuation of posts on various aspects of MNIC in general and photographs in particular here is one more. Below is a BBC news report of 2003. Back in the day the Canadian government seemed to have regularized the 'neutral pose'. I wonder what is that? Certainly because that is also a pose and one is definitely showing some emotion. Hence the use of the word -neutral- interesting. An excerpt- Posing for your passport is no laughing matter in Canada where the foreign ministry has introduced a ban on people smiling in their passport photographs. Please read the news below for more. Regards Taha http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3185641.stm Canada gets serious on passport photos Posing for your passport is no laughing matter in Canada where the foreign ministry has introduced a ban on people smiling in their passport photographs. >From now on Canadians have been instructed to adopt a "neutral expression" for their picture, which according to ministry officials "means no laughing, smiles or frowning". The ban officially came into effect on 15 August, but the decision could not be announced nationwide because of the huge power blackout that hit Ontario province at the time. Suzanne Meunier, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Passport Office said the government was clamping down in accordance with a series of recommendations from the International Civil Aviation Organisation designed to make it easier for security personnel to identify passport holders. Other restrictions include: * Hairpieces that are normally worn are permitted as long as they do not alter the person's appearance substantially * Although turbans and head scarves worn for religious reasons are permitted, veils which cover the face are not * Tinted prescription glasses are allowed as long as the eyes remain visible. The crackdown on smiling in the photographs means that a grin or flash of teeth is certainly out of the question. "The mouth must be closed," Ms Meunier said. But for those who like to show a little personality in their travel documents there is a small window of opportunity - passport applicants have been granted a smile amnesty that will run until 3 November. "We have already received photos with a small smile that we are ready to accept," she said. But from the November deadline only serious photos will be allowed. * From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 13:36:42 2009 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:36:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'War on terror' was wrong --- UK Foreign Secretary Message-ID: <4fcaee300901160006o3b59facfv8cf3b19ac3c6d126@mail.gmail.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/15/david-miliband-war-terror 'War on terror' was wrong The phrase gives a false idea of a unified global enemy, and encourages a primarily military reply Comments (152) * David Miliband * The Guardian, Thursday 15 January 2009 The terrorist attacks in Mumbai seven weeks ago sent shock waves around the world. Now all eyes are fixed on the Middle East, where Israel's response to Hamas's rockets, a ferocious military campaign, has already left a thousand Gazans dead. Seven years on from 9/11 it is clear that we need to take a fundamental look at our efforts to prevent extremism and its terrible offspring, terrorist violence. Since 9/11, the notion of a "war on terror" has defined the terrain. The phrase had some merit: it captured the gravity of the threats, the need for solidarity, and the need to respond urgently - where necessary, with force. But ultimately, the notion is misleading and mistaken. The issue is not whether we need to attack the use of terror at its roots, with all the tools available. We must. The question is how. The idea of a "war on terror" gave the impression of a unified, transnational enemy, embodied in the figure of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida. The reality is that the motivations and identities of terrorist groups are disparate. Lashkar-e-Taiba has roots in Pakistan and says its cause is Kashmir. Hezbollah says it stands for resistance to occupation of the Golan Heights. The Shia and Sunni insurgent groups in Iraq have myriad demands. They are as diverse as the 1970s European movements of the IRA, Baader-Meinhof, and Eta. All used terrorism and sometimes they supported each other, but their causes were not unified and their cooperation was opportunistic. So it is today. The more we lump terrorist groups together and draw the battle lines as a simple binary struggle between moderates and extremists, or good and evil, the more we play into the hands of those seeking to unify groups with little in common. Terrorist groups need to be tackled at root, interdicting flows of weapons and finance, exposing the shallowness of their claims, channelling their followers into democratic politics. The "war on terror" also implied that the correct response was primarily military. But as General Petraeus said to me and others in Iraq, the coalition there could not kill its way out of the problems of insurgency and civil strife. This is what divides supporters and opponents of the military action in Gaza. Similar issues are raised by the debate about the response to the Mumbai attacks. Those who were responsible must be brought to justice and the government of Pakistan must take urgent and effective action to break up terror networks on its soil. But on my visit to south Asia this week, I am arguing that the best antidote to the terrorist threat in the long term is cooperation. Although I understand the current difficulties, resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms, and allow Pakistani authorities to focus more effectively on tackling the threat on their western borders. We must respond to terrorism by championing the rule of law, not subordinating it, for it is the cornerstone of the democratic society. We must uphold our commitments to human rights and civil liberties at home and abroad. That is surely the lesson of Guantánamo and it is why we welcome President-elect Obama's commitment to close it. The call for a "war on terror" was a call to arms, an attempt to build solidarity for a fight against a single shared enemy. But the foundation for solidarity between peoples and nations should be based not on who we are against, but on the idea of who we are and the values we share. Terrorists succeed when they render countries fearful and vindictive; when they sow division and animosity; when they force countries to respond with violence and repression. The best response is to refuse to be cowed. • David Miliband is the foreign secretary From turbulence at turbulence.org Fri Jan 16 02:22:48 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:52:48 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Spotlight: "30 Days of New Life" by Douglas Gast Message-ID: <01d201c97753$3b0516f0$b10f44d0$@org> January 15, 2009 Turbulence Spotlight: "30 Days of New Life" by Douglas Gast http://turbulence.org/spotlight/30DaysofNewLife "30 Days of New Life" comprises a series of performances in which a team of cartographers relocates to a new city for 30 days. The first performance took place in 2008 in Berlin, Germany; the second will occur in summer 2009. During the performances, the cartographers work with local residents to identify places and people that are personally, artistically, historically or culturally significant. Essentially, the performances result in an online interactive map. The map is created using Google Maps and the project's website. Each point of interest includes a description, information gathered from local residents/sources, reflections, images, and/or video. The cartographers do not control what gets included in the map. Local residents make suggestions and it is their suggestions that ultimately build it. BIOGRAPHY Douglas Gast is an exhibiting artist and educator. While typically digital or electronic in nature, his work involves the identification and activation of the inherent elements of the media which stands to best serve his chosen message. The role of his art is twofold: It strives to clarify the very definition of art while concurrently utilizing the fundamental properties of the media to construct idea systems. These idea systems are designed to be thought through, instead of thought of, and ultimately call into question some typical socio-political situation or structure. Gast's projects take the form of videos, films, images, websites, sculptures, performances, books and installations. They have been exhibited and screened nationally and internationally in places like Chicago, Seattle, Cincinnati, Nashville, Austin, Madison and NYC as well as Germany, Spain, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden and Canada. He is currently an Assistant Professor of Fine Arts at Washington State University where he teaches in support of the Digital Technology and Culture program. For more Turbulence Spotlights, please visit http://turbulence.org/spotlight Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 16 14:35:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:05:52 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Comment: David Miliband's argument is flawed Message-ID: <65be9bf40901160105j2940f726u1be0daeb52109824@mail.gmail.com> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5525152.ece Times Foreign Editor says the Foreign Secretary may not want to call this a war - but Osama bin Laden certainly does Richard Beeston David Miliband showed bad judgment and poor taste when he chose the Taj hotel in Mumbai to take a last swipe at George Bush in the dying days of his presidency. With the blood barely dry on the reception walls, the Foreign Secretary made his stand against Mr Bush in the city's most famous landmark and memorial site to the 164 dead from November's terrorist attack. Mr Miliband said that the War on Terror was "misleading and mistaken" and may have done more harm than good, that the threat posed by militant Islam cannot be defeated by force of arms and that there is no single enemy in this fight. His points have been rehearsed by British ministers before but Mr Miliband chose to set them out more bluntly than ever, just five days before the US leader steps down. He separately praised the incoming Obama Administration whose "values and priorities" he told us he shared. On substance his argument is flawed. As Osama bin Laden made clear in his statement this week, the al-Qaeda leader, his No 2 and his global organisation are alive and well. Bar some inauguration surprise, the fugitive Saudi terrorist is likely to see off Mr Bush, who steps down on Tuesday. Al-Qaeda and its offshoots are still well armed and funded and running operations in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South-East Asia and North Africa, not to mention mainland Britain. Since 9/11 they have succeeded in attacking targets across the globe — Bali, Madrid, Jedda, London, Istanbul, Baghdad, Algiers, Islamabad and Amman to name a few. They are responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians, mostly fellow Muslims. Mr Miliband cited General David Petraeus, whose tactics are credited with turning around the situation in Iraq, as a commander who understood that America could not kill its way out of the problems in Iraq. That is true. But what America did do under Mr Bush and General Petraeus was commit tens of thousands more troops to the battle and win over the support of key elements in the local population. The Americans, with their new Iraqi allies, then dismembered al-Qaeda in Iraq in a series of decisive military actions. Clearly if there are moderate, biddable elements in the Taleban, in Hezbollah, in Hamas or among other militant groups around the world, then the governments concerned should act to engage them. But let us not kid ourselves about al-Qaeda and its allies. We may not want to call this a war but they do. The shortcomings of Mr Miliband's arguments are largely beside the point. The Taj hotel in Mumbai is a place where visiting foreign leaders should pay respect to the dead and praise the courage of those who defied the terrorists. Mr Miliband appears to have followed the advice of one of Mr Bush's predecessors in the White House, who was fond of saying that you should never hit a man when he was down but kick him because it saved bending over. Instead, the Foreign Secretary should have acted some time during the past seven years when his words would have mattered, not on the eve of Mr Obama's inauguration and not in Mumbai. From skinnyghosh at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 15:23:26 2009 From: skinnyghosh at gmail.com (sukanya ghosh) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:23:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Then They Came for me: Lasantha Wikramatunge In-Reply-To: <4e2b4ffc0901152332t93f2437jb98f572d2a6e7656@mail.gmail.com> References: <4e2b4ffc0901152332t93f2437jb98f572d2a6e7656@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49705916.7050006@gmail.com> Sri Lanka's best known journalist and editor in chief of ''The Sunday Leader'' Lasantha Wikramatunge was shot dead recently. He foretold his murder in this editorial, published posthumously. *Editorial* And Then They Came For Me No other profession calls on its practitioners to lay down their lives for their art save the armed forces and, in Sri Lanka, journalism. In the course of the past few years, the independent media have increasingly come under attack. Electronic and print-media institutions have been burnt, bombed, sealed and coerced. Countless journalists have been harassed, threatened and killed. It has been my honour to belong to all those categories and now especially the last. I have been in the business of journalism a good long time. Indeed, 2009 will be The Sunday Leader's 15th year. Many things have changed in Sri Lanka during that time, and it does not need me to tell you that the greater part of that change has been for the worse. We find ourselves in the midst of a civil war ruthlessly prosecuted by protagonists whose bloodlust knows no bounds. Terror, whether perpetrated by terrorists or the state, has become the order of the day. Indeed, murder has become the primary tool whereby the state seeks to control the organs of liberty. Today it is the journalists, tomorrow it will be the judges. For neither group have the risks ever been higher or the stakes lower. Why then do we do it? I often wonder that. After all, I too am a husband, and the father of three wonderful children. I too have responsibilities and obligations that transcend my profession, be it the law or journalism. Is it worth the risk? Many people tell me it is not. Friends tell me to revert to the bar, and goodness knows it offers a better and safer livelihood. Others, including political leaders on both sides, have at various times sought to induce me to take to politics, going so far as to offer me ministries of my choice. Diplomats, recognising the risk journalists face in Sri Lanka, have offered me safe passage and the right of residence in their countries. Whatever else I may have been stuck for, I have not been stuck for choice. But there is a calling that is yet above high office, fame, lucre and security. It is the call of conscience. The Sunday Leader has been a controversial newspaper because we say it like we see it: whether it be a spade, a thief or a murderer, we call it by that name. We do not hide behind euphemism. The investigative articles we print are supported by documentary evidence thanks to the public-spiritedness of citizens who at great risk to themselves pass on this material to us. We have exposed scandal after scandal, and never once in these 15 years has anyone proved us wrong or successfully prosecuted us. The free media serve as a mirror in which the public can see itself sans mascara and styling gel. From us you learn the state of your nation, and especially its management by the people you elected to give your children a better future. Sometimes the image you see in that mirror is not a pleasant one. But while you may grumble in the privacy of your armchair, the journalists who hold the mirror up to you do so publicly and at great risk to themselves. That is our calling, and we do not shirk it. Every newspaper has its angle, and we do not hide the fact that we have ours. Our commitment is to see Sri Lanka as a transparent, secular, liberal democracy. Think about those words, for they each has profound meaning. Transparent because government must be openly accountable to the people and never abuse their trust. Secular because in a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society such as ours, secularism offers the only common ground by which we might all be united. Liberal because we recognise that all human beings are created different, and we need to accept others for what they are and not what we would like them to be. And democratic... well, if you need me to explain why that is important, you'd best stop buying this paper. The Sunday Leader has never sought safety by unquestioningly articulating the majority view. Let's face it, that is the way to sell newspapers. On the contrary, as our opinion pieces over the years amply demonstrate, we often voice ideas that many people find distasteful. For example, we have consistently espoused the view that while separatist terrorism must be eradicated, it is more important to address the root causes of terrorism, and urged government to view Sri Lanka's ethnic strife in the context of history and not through the telescope of terrorism. We have also agitated against state terrorism in the so-called war against terror, and made no secret of our horror that Sri Lanka is the only country in the world routinely to bomb its own citizens. For these views we have been labelled traitors, and if this be treachery, we wear that label proudly. Many people suspect that The Sunday Leader has a political agenda: it does not. If we appear more critical of the government than of the opposition it is only because we believe that - pray excuse cricketing argot - there is no point in bowling to the fielding side. Remember that for the few years of our existence in which the UNP was in office, we proved to be the biggest thorn in its flesh, exposing excess and corruption wherever it occurred. Indeed, the steady stream of embarrassing expos‚s we published may well have served to precipitate the downfall of that government. Neither should our distaste for the war be interpreted to mean that we support the Tigers. The LTTE are among the most ruthless and bloodthirsty organisations ever to have infested the planet. There is no gainsaying that it must be eradicated. But to do so by violating the rights of Tamil citizens, bombing and shooting them mercilessly, is not only wrong but shames the Sinhalese, whose claim to be custodians of the dhamma is forever called into question by this savagery, much of which is unknown to the public because of censorship. What is more, a military occupation of the country's north and east will require the Tamil people of those regions to live eternally as second-class citizens, deprived of all self respect. Do not imagine that you can placate them by showering "development" and "reconstruction" on them in the post-war era. The wounds of war will scar them forever, and you will also have an even more bitter and hateful Diaspora to contend with. A problem amenable to a political solution will thus become a festering wound that will yield strife for all eternity. If I seem angry and frustrated, it is only because most of my countrymen - and all of the government - cannot see this writing so plainly on the wall. It is well known that I was on two occasions brutally assaulted, while on another my house was sprayed with machine-gun fire. Despite the government's sanctimonious assurances, there was never a serious police inquiry into the perpetrators of these attacks, and the attackers were never apprehended. In all these cases, I have reason to believe the attacks were inspired by the government. When finally I am killed, it will be the government that kills me. The irony in this is that, unknown to most of the public, Mahinda and I have been friends for more than a quarter century. Indeed, I suspect that I am one of the few people remaining who routinely addresses him by his first name and uses the familiar Sinhala address oya when talking to him. Although I do not attend the meetings he periodically holds for newspaper editors, hardly a month passes when we do not meet, privately or with a few close friends present, late at night at President's House. There we swap yarns, discuss politics and joke about the good old days. A few remarks to him would therefore be in order here. Mahinda, when you finally fought your way to the SLFP presidential nomination in 2005, nowhere were you welcomed more warmly than in this column. Indeed, we broke with a decade of tradition by referring to you throughout by your first name. So well known were your commitments to human rights and liberal values that we ushered you in like a breath of fresh air. Then, through an act of folly, you got yourself involved in the Helping Hambantota scandal. It was after a lot of soul-searching that we broke the story, at the same time urging you to return the money. By the time you did so several weeks later, a great blow had been struck to your reputation. It is one you are still trying to live down. You have told me yourself that you were not greedy for the presidency. You did not have to hanker after it: it fell into your lap. You have told me that your sons are your greatest joy, and that you love spending time with them, leaving your brothers to operate the machinery of state. Now, it is clear to all who will see that that machinery has operated so well that my sons and daughter do not themselves have a father. In the wake of my death I know you will make all the usual sanctimonious noises and call upon the police to hold a swift and thorough inquiry. But like all the inquiries you have ordered in the past, nothing will come of this one, too. For truth be told, we both know who will be behind my death, but dare not call his name. Not just my life, but yours too, depends on it. Sadly, for all the dreams you had for our country in your younger days, in just three years you have reduced it to rubble. In the name of patriotism you have trampled on human rights, nurtured unbridled corruption and squandered public money like no other President before you. Indeed, your conduct has been like a small child suddenly let loose in a toyshop. That analogy is perhaps inapt because no child could have caused so much blood to be spilled on this land as you have, or trampled on the rights of its citizens as you do. Although you are now so drunk with power that you cannot see it, you will come to regret your sons having so rich an inheritance of blood. It can only bring tragedy. As for me, it is with a clear conscience that I go to meet my Maker. I wish, when your time finally comes, you could do the same. I wish. As for me, I have the satisfaction of knowing that I walked tall and bowed to no man. And I have not travelled this journey alone. Fellow journalists in other branches of the media walked with me: most of them are now dead, imprisoned without trial or exiled in far-off lands. Others walk in the shadow of death that your Presidency has cast on the freedoms for which you once fought so hard. You will never be allowed to forget that my death took place under your watch. As anguished as I know you will be, I also know that you will have no choice but to protect my killers: you will see to it that the guilty one is never convicted. You have no choice. I feel sorry for you, and Shiranthi will have a long time to spend on her knees when next she goes for Confession for it is not just her owns sins which she must confess, but those of her extended family that keeps you in office. As for the readers of The Sunday Leader, what can I say but Thank You for supporting our mission. We have espoused unpopular causes, stood up for those too feeble to stand up for themselves, locked horns with the high and mighty so swollen with power that they have forgotten their roots, exposed corruption and the waste of your hard-earned tax rupees, and made sure that whatever the propaganda of the day, you were allowed to hear a contrary view. For this I - and my family - have now paid the price that I have long known I will one day have to pay. I am - and have always been - ready for that. I have done nothing to prevent this outcome: no security, no precautions. I want my murderer to know that I am not a coward like he is, hiding behind human shields while condemning thousands of innocents to death. What am I among so many? It has long been written that my life would be taken, and by whom. All that remains to be written is when. That The Sunday Leader will continue fighting the good fight, too, is written. For I did not fight this fight alone. Many more of us have to be - and will be - killed before The Leader is laid to rest. I hope my assassination will be seen not as a defeat of freedom but an inspiration for those who survive to step up their efforts. Indeed, I hope that it will help galvanise forces that will usher in a new era of human liberty in our beloved motherland. I also hope it will open the eyes of your President to the fact that however many are slaughtered in the name of patriotism, the human spirit will endure and flourish. Not all the Rajapakses combined can kill that. People often ask me why I take such risks and tell me it is a matter of time before I am bumped off. Of course I know that: it is inevitable. But if we do not speak out now, there will be no one left to speak for those who cannot, whether they be ethnic minorities, the disadvantaged or the persecuted. An example that has inspired me throughout my career in journalism has been that of the German theologian, Martin Niem"ller. In his youth he was an anti-Semite and an admirer of Hitler. As Nazism took hold in Germany, however, he saw Nazism for what it was: it was not just the Jews Hitler sought to extirpate, it was just about anyone with an alternate point of view. Niem"ller spoke out, and for his trouble was incarcerated in the Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1937 to 1945, and very nearly executed. While incarcerated, Niem"ller wrote a poem that, from the first time I read it in my teenage years, stuck hauntingly in my mind: First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. If you remember nothing else, remember this: The Leader is there for you, be you Sinhalese, Tamil, Muslim, low-caste, homosexual, dissident or disabled. Its staff will fight on, unbowed and unafraid, with the courage to which you have become accustomed. Do not take that commitment for granted. Let there be no doubt that whatever sacrifices we journalists make, they are not made for our own glory or enrichment: they are made for you. Whether you deserve their sacrifice is another matter. As for me, God knows I tried. http://www.thesundayleader.lk/20090111/editorial-.htm From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 18:34:02 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:34:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt plans smart cards for gulf emigrants In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901151511q93da40ewcfba5499c935e736@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901151511q93da40ewcfba5499c935e736@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha I have understood your argument against fingerprinting of citizens. It also seems you are against national identity cards. Could you please elaborate on your views regarding the NIC's? Regards Rakesh From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Jan 16 23:51:55 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:21:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Comment: David Miliband's argument is flawed In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901160105j2940f726u1be0daeb52109824@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901160105j2940f726u1be0daeb52109824@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: David Miliband's poor taste & judgement were also visible when he shot his mouth & attributed the scourge of pan Islamic terror that has been targetting India for the past two decdes to what he thought was "Kashmir issue". Would somebody ask him whether the Glassgow Airpor suicide bombing by the Bangluru born aerospace engineert or Srinagar 2000 X-mas eve car suicide bombing by the Barmingham born (Of Pakistani origin ) Bilal & London train bombings or Madrid train bombings or even 9/11 World Trade Centre bombings were executed because of his fancied 'Kashmir issue'. It seems , prior to his departure ,he was briefed by the powerful Pakistani Mirpuris & other London based anti India pan Islamists. It was shocking to see in the media our own 'royal PM' in making hobnobbing with the visiting 'royal fool 'while our foreign affairs spokesperson wanted the visiting guest keep his mouth shut. Regards all LA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:05:52 +0000> From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Comment: David Miliband's argument is flawed> > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5525152.ece> > Times Foreign Editor says the Foreign Secretary may not want to call> this a war - but Osama bin Laden certainly does> Richard Beeston> > > David Miliband showed bad judgment and poor taste when he chose the> Taj hotel in Mumbai to take a last swipe at George Bush in the dying> days of his presidency.> > With the blood barely dry on the reception walls, the Foreign> Secretary made his stand against Mr Bush in the city's most famous> landmark and memorial site to the 164 dead from November's terrorist> attack.> > Mr Miliband said that the War on Terror was "misleading and mistaken"> and may have done more harm than good, that the threat posed by> militant Islam cannot be defeated by force of arms and that there is> no single enemy in this fight.> > His points have been rehearsed by British ministers before but Mr> Miliband chose to set them out more bluntly than ever, just five days> before the US leader steps down. He separately praised the incoming> Obama Administration whose "values and priorities" he told us he> shared.> > On substance his argument is flawed. As Osama bin Laden made clear in> his statement this week, the al-Qaeda leader, his No 2 and his global> organisation are alive and well. Bar some inauguration surprise, the> fugitive Saudi terrorist is likely to see off Mr Bush, who steps down> on Tuesday. Al-Qaeda and its offshoots are still well armed and funded> and running operations in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia,> Somalia, South-East Asia and North Africa, not to mention mainland> Britain. Since 9/11 they have succeeded in attacking targets across> the globe — Bali, Madrid, Jedda, London, Istanbul, Baghdad, Algiers,> Islamabad and Amman to name a few. They are responsible for the deaths> of thousands of innocent civilians, mostly fellow Muslims.> > Mr Miliband cited General David Petraeus, whose tactics are credited> with turning around the situation in Iraq, as a commander who> understood that America could not kill its way out of the problems in> Iraq.> > That is true. But what America did do under Mr Bush and General> Petraeus was commit tens of thousands more troops to the battle and> win over the support of key elements in the local population. The> Americans, with their new Iraqi allies, then dismembered al-Qaeda in> Iraq in a series of decisive military actions.> > Clearly if there are moderate, biddable elements in the Taleban, in> Hezbollah, in Hamas or among other militant groups around the world,> then the governments concerned should act to engage them. But let us> not kid ourselves about al-Qaeda and its allies. We may not want to> call this a war but they do.> > The shortcomings of Mr Miliband's arguments are largely beside the> point. The Taj hotel in Mumbai is a place where visiting foreign> leaders should pay respect to the dead and praise the courage of those> who defied the terrorists.> > Mr Miliband appears to have followed the advice of one of Mr Bush's> predecessors in the White House, who was fond of saying that you> should never hit a man when he was down but kick him because it saved> bending over.> > Instead, the Foreign Secretary should have acted some time during the> past seven years when his words would have mattered, not on the eve of> Mr Obama's inauguration and not in Mumbai.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From pkray11 at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 03:39:53 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:39:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New Year message from Dr Binayak Sen Message-ID: <98f331e00901161409i3033b24m22a059561c32e65c@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, This is New Year message from Dr Binayak Sen Prakash This New Years' message was hand-written in jail by Dr Binayak Sen for the MFC and JSS groups. Ilina Sen (who transcribed and emailed) has given permission for it to be forwarded to us as well. Mary Ganguli --------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:32 AM Subject: mfc My warmest greetings to all friends in the MFC, and best wishes for 2009. As an Indian child of parents from the territory that is now Bangladesh, displacement was a lived reality for me from my childhood, as it was for millions of other children of my generation. But then, in so many ways, the history of the last 500 years (1492 is a useful reference date), is the history of successive waves of displacement- either as displacement from as in the case of the native Americans, or displacement to, as in the case of slave labour from Africa or India. A particularly gruesome episode is being played out before our eyes in Palestine. The NBA brought the issue of displacement into the mainstream of Indian public discourse. In Chhattisgarh, seasonal migration provides an example of large scale displacement, and a particularly iconic experience was watching a young migrant mother lying on the floor of a train while her baby slowly dehydrated from gastroenteritis. The Salwa Judum in Bastar has displaced huge numbers of people at gunpoint, and over 100,000 people have been pushed over the border into Andhra Pradesh. In China today, 100 million people are in the process of being displaced by the Three gorges dam and other projects. As usual, in India, we go one better.The redoubtable Prof Swaminathan has chaired a committee that has concluded that Indian agriculture can accommodate at most a third of its population in agriculture, as opposed to half as at present.. The difference is a small matter of 200 million people. Displacement is about the sequestration of privileged access to resources and need not always involve a geographical reference. Thus, the chronic nutritional deprivation from which half our children and a third of our adults suffer can be regarded as a special form of displacement. What displacement invariably does entail is the ruthless cutting short of the micro evolutionary process involved in any instance of eco adaptation, involving chemical or physical factors as in Bhopal, or the social environment as in south Bastar. That's enough. Too bad I can't take part. All the best for your deliberations.. Choose your politics before your politics chooses you. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 17 08:26:29 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:56:29 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On confusions regarding the term 'pan-Islamic'. Message-ID: <65be9bf40901161856t72a0da5dw4763d3e19360a8e3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Lallit, Thank you for posting your comments. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by pan Islamic terror? Because I believe that there is no such thing as pan-islamic. The reason for this is I think, in so far as my understanding of Islam goes, Islam is not a homogeneous entity. Hence if it is not a homogeneous entity then why do you feel it appropriate to use the this tag? Furthermore I would also like to know your thoughts on what do you mean by Islam? Is it a precise concept? If it is then could you kindly define it? If it is not then may I ask you to please enlighten us with your insights regarding the broad limits of this term. Regards Taha David Miliband's poor taste & judgement were also visible when he shot his mouth & attributed the scourge of pan Islamic terror that has been targetting India for the past two decdes to what he thought was "Kashmir issue". Would somebody ask him whether the Glassgow Airpor suicide bombing by the Bangluru born aerospace engineert or Srinagar 2000 X-mas eve car suicide bombing by the Barmingham born (Of Pakistani origin ) Bilal & London train bombings or Madrid train bombings or even 9/11 World Trade Centre bombings were executed because of his fancied 'Kashmir issue'. It seems , prior to his departure ,he was briefed by the powerful Pakistani Mirpuris & other London based anti India pan Islamists. It was shocking to see in the media our own 'royal PM' in making hobnobbing with the visiting 'royal fool 'while our foreign affairs spokesperson wanted the visiting guest keep his mouth shut. Regards all LA From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 17 09:21:23 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:51:23 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt plans smart cards for gulf emigrants In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40901151511q93da40ewcfba5499c935e736@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901161951m2322f221qc1842f42fa22c841@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh Thank you for posting you questions regarding my position on MINC. My position on the proposal to introduce national identity cards in India is this- a) I would unhesitatingly, with any doubt, register myself to receive a MNIC card, should the Government of India decide to go for a national roll out. b) As an Indian citizen I think it is be my duty to honestly and truthfully share all the information which the government asks me to provide, in the event of such a roll out and I promise to fulfill what is required of me. c) The Indian constitution states, specifically, Section 14A of the Citizenship (Registration of Citizens and Issue of National Identity Cards) Rules, 2003- (1) The Central Government may compulsorily register every citizen of India and issue national identity card to him. (2) The Central Government may maintain a National Register of Indian Citizens and for that purpose establish a National Registration Authority. (3) On and from the date of commencement of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2003, the Registrar General, India, appointed under sub-section (1) of section 3 of the Registration of Births and Deaths Act, 1969 shall act as the National Registration Authority and he shall function as the Registrar General of Citizen Registration. (4) The Central Government may appoint such other officers and staff as may be required to assist the Registrar General of Citizen Registration in discharging his functions and responsibilities. (5) The procedure to be followed in compulsory registration of the citizens of India shall be such as may be prescribed. As a law abiding citizen of India, I respect our constitution and I shall do whatever is asked of me. Having made my position clear. I also want to state that as a citizen of this country, I feel it is also my obligation, to engage as much as I could, in public discourse. Hence my interest in this issue. And I happen to practice as a research analyst on issues of identity together with issues pertaining to social life of risk and technology for the last four years, which I think explains my enthusiasm in posting news stories and other materials on the reader list. Now having said that, I want to take this opportunity to say, that I do not think, that there exists much information in the public domain about Government of India's position on 'identity'. We do not know, what does the GOI mean by 'identity'. Which I find quite perplexing, because, the GOI seems quite clear about other aspects, material aspects of MNIC. For instance we know in minute detail about what MNIC card, which is a smart card, will contain. We know the nature of the technology which will be used in this card. We know the amount of data the memory chip will contain etc. On the face of it, from a sociological perspective the current discourse around MNIC seems to me like a classic example of how a dominant social system is devising a mechanism of legitimation to appease or obscure what we can perceive and what we cannot. For instance, I do not understand the process through which public money is apportioned for a new technology, when there is ample evidence of failures of similar identification drives in the last one hundred and thirty years or so, starting from the census. Hence we need to ask, what was the process of choosing this technology arrived at? How was the cost decided? Were there any cheaper options? Was the cost of MNIC the least cost? and so on. India is a very poor country, we do not seem to have enough money to provide regular latrines to six hundred thousand manual scavengers, almost one hundred and fifty thousand of our farmers have committed suicide in the last five years and our Govt seems to be hell bent on transferring almost 27000 Crore rupees in favor of all those organizations who are engaged in production and manufacture of plastic smart cards. There is of course nothing wrong in this transfer but I think, we need to ask, Is this transfer just? Warm regards Taha On 1/16/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Taha > > I have understood your argument against fingerprinting of citizens. It also > seems you are against national identity cards. Could you please elaborate on > your views regarding the NIC's? > > Regards > > Rakesh > From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 10:11:56 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:11:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: cellular silence In-Reply-To: References: <004601c977df$e975e5c0$0301a8c0@bishakha6bbb1b> Message-ID: The petition title is: Cellular Silence Day_30th January 2009. The petition URL is: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/30JAN09/petition.html The petition is directed to: India Inc. The petition statement says: Dear Messrs, Ratan Tata, Sunil Mittal and Anil Ambani I am one of a billion Indian citizens. I am somewhere in the middle of that pyramid that you wish to give voice - from bottom to top - through wealth creation. I am proud of the brands you represent that have made India proud. I am one of the burgeoning Indian middle-class that share your aspirations of mutating India from indolent elephant to thundering tiger. It ends there... I have hitherto been accused of being indifferent and apathetic, simply because I am overawed and felt overwhelmed in a system replete with Goliaths. But when I saw you embrace the fascist mastermind of state sponsored genocide as a future Prime Minister and endorse the Modi-fication of India, it was disappointingly apparent that the brands that aspire to make India rich shall continue to languish in ethical poverty. While I am filled with revulsion at your endorsement of Narendra Modi, I must respect your right to do so as a fellow citizen. In writing this petition I am a mere David amongst the mightiest corporate Goliaths but I feel empowered to address your collective amnesia - through recollection of the Gujarat pogrom of 2002 - by the true Goliath among Gujaratis in particular and Indians in general - Mohandas Gandhi. All those who sign this petition will switch off their Tata Indicomm, Airtel and Reliance cellular phone and broadband connections from midnight on January 30th 2009. It is eminently possible that I might be the one voice in a billion who will observe the 61st death anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi on as Cellular Silence Day. Then again, there might be close to a billion who could join me on January 30th, 2009 expressing their solidarity and silently insisting that the captains of India Inc adopt an ethical, compassionate path to wealth creation rather than the single-minded pursuit of the bottom-line. We shall know that by the end of 30th January, 2009. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jan 18 04:34:53 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:04:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?We_are_not_=E2=80=98crazy_in_Pakistan?= =?utf-8?b?4oCZ?= Message-ID: <431772.80247.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Specially for those who expect the powers that be in Pakistan to cooperate with India to weed out terrorism. http://dawn.com/weekly/kamran/kamran.htm We are not ‘crazy in Pakistan’ By Kamran Shafi WHETHER it be Baroness Manningham-Buller, former director general of Britain’s MI5, or Jonathan Evans, the present DG; whether it be George Tenet, former director of the American CIA or Gen Mike Hayden, the present director, no spy chief has ever said anything even halfway controversial to the press. Their interviews, if any, are completely innocuous in content. Indeed, this is what the Independent newspaper had to say about the press interview that Evans gave on Jan 6, 2008: “The head of MI5, Jonathan Evans, was on display yesterday after he had invited selected journalists to visit him in his office in Millbank, overlooking the Thames, so that he could make a few uncontroversial comments to mark the centenary of the spy network. “It was the first time in MI5’s 100-year history that a serving head of MI5 had met the press — and even on this occasion, Mr Evans was cautious about which journalists were invited. He gave nothing away.” I have often made the case that we Pakistanis are a most unique people and our country a most unique place where anything goes. Where, most critically, no cognisance is taken of what anyone in authority says or does, the country be damned. Those that rule us think it their absolute right to say what they jolly well please; to be utterly loquacious when it takes their fancy; to show off and preen themselves as if the light shone out of their left ears alone and from nowhere else. Here is what our DG of the ISI said in so many words — if you don’t believe me, please go to the Der Spiegel site — in an interview published in this most respected of Germany’s highest brow print-media journals: “We may be crazy in Pakistan, but not completely out of our minds!” I ask you! Is this how the chief of an agency accused of much chicanery by most of the world should address a question of this magnitude? Especially when there is every evidence that hard-core and cruel extremists, albeit very few in number, have been allowed to hold this country and its good people by the throat for too long? Der Spiegel goes on: “However, it is worth listening closely when the general explains why he too is unwilling to apprehend the Taliban leadership, even though many claim that Taliban leader Mullah Omar, for example, is in Quetta…. “‘Shouldn’t they be allowed to think and say what they please? They believe that jihad is their obligation. Isn’t that freedom of opinion?’ he asks, defending extremist rabble-rousers, who are sending more and more Quran school students to Afghanistan to fight in the war there. Such words from Pasha arouse the old suspicion that the ISI is playing a double game.” As it should arouse suspicion, because the Taliban don’t only say what they “please”; they also behead and shoot as they “please”, and cut off other people’s ears as they “please”. Just as they cut off the ears of five tribal elders belonging to a peace committee in Khar the other day. It is hardly a matter of their “freedom of opinion”, because their freedom of opinion extends to blowing up schools, in recent weeks not only girls schools but ALL schools in Swat. And effectively taking over completely, that once peaceful and very lovely place. Ask the poor Swatis. The Taliban’s “freedom of opinion” extends to kidnapping senior and well-guarded government officials such as on Jan 11, when they took the Additional Political Agent of South Waziristan in broad daylight. We must note that whilst he was protected by “more than 20 heavily-armed” guards, just five masked men spirited him away. What in God’s name is going on? Chills you to the bone does it not, this interview by the head of Pakistan’s Mother of All Agencies? There is much more that is completely inexplicable. One of our English language newspapers had this story in its Jan 11 publication: “militants affiliated with the Swat chapter of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) attacked the house of former federal minister and ANP leader Muhammad Afzal Khan ‘Lala’, burnt another government school, and lashed two drug addicts publicly.”The news report goes on to say that the militants invited the townspeople (no, not women, who are not even allowed into Swat bazaars any longer on pain of death, remember) to witness the flogging of the addicts in the main bazaar of Matta Town which they duly carried out a few hours after making the public announcement. We are also told by the newspaper that when Lala’s house was attacked the security forces “in an unusual move” engaged the attackers and “made them flee”. What in heaven’s name is going on, sirs? Afzal ‘Lala’ is a well-known and respected politician of Swat who has courageously refused to leave his home in that ravaged part of our country because, simply, he will not be cowed; will not leave his home. My deepest respects to him.But why did the “security forces” act “unusually” in his case only? Why don’t they act “usually” when parliamentarians’ houses are blown up, when ordinary people are abducted in the dead of night and butchered, their headless bodies hung on electricity poles in public squares in Swat’s major towns like Mingora itself? And when schools are blown up? Reportedly, there are 30,000 or so regular army soldiers stationed in Swat, apart from the civil armed forces and whatever police that have not deserted out of fear of beheading, what else. Are there more Taliban than these “security forces”? Is the army out-gunned by the Taliban? Do the Taliban have tanks and artillery and helicopter gunships and an air force too? What the devil is going on there for God’s sake? Visitors to Swat tell of Pakistan Army and Taliban check posts a few hundred metres apart, army vehicles passing through Taliban check posts too. Why? Are they cooperating to strike the fear of God into our hearts? And for telling their paymaster, Amreeka Bahadur, that the problem is far bigger than it really is, so go on coughing up those luscious dollars? Let me caution the powers that be in this tortured and unfortunate country: Barack Obama will soon be in the White House. Beware, sirs, for he is a highly intelligent man who will very quickly see through all of the charade and the subterfuge that seemingly is on shameful display in the citadel of Islam. He is not a duffer like your ‘tight buddy’ Dubya! So beware, if not for your own sakes, then for this poor country’s and its hapless people’s. I beg you. Bushism of the week: “So I analysed that and decided I didn’t want to be the president during a depression greater than the Great Depression, or the beginning of a depression greater than the Great Depression” — President George W Bush; Washington D.C., Dec. 18, 2008. P.S. Governor Taseer, who fashions himself as a leftie Piplia these days, and who was on the TV programme Jawab Deh recently, should at the very least know that Pablo Neruda (who he purportedly met whilst in the company of Faiz Sahib in London) was Chilean, not Cuban. kshafi1 at yahoo.co.uk From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jan 18 05:15:28 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:45:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan Message-ID: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Taha, If you have a question or comment around what I posted,feel free to ask.I want to know your perspective about that black\white\gray stuff.Thanks for the exchange,anyway. Moving on. Another myth in that list by Hanif is that "All Pakistanis hate India".This is an interesting device,I think.He frames a straw man and all he needs to do now is to prove that "some" Pakistanis don't hate India and another so called myth is dispelled.In fact,I do not believe that even "most" Pakistanis hate India.I wouldn't be surprised after the recent attacks that more Indians hate Pakistan than vice versa. The following link is interesting,all the same. "However, nearly 50 percent of all those surveyed in Karachi believed that suicide bombing was acceptable in Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ Those figures are from Karachi.I wouldn't be surprised if that 50% became 100% in NWFP etc. Again,point here is not that Pakistanis hate Indians. A Pakistani may have nothing but regret and sympathy on the death of the innocents in Bombay.The point is that there is a well oiled machinery which uses the hatred to finance terrorism in India.There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of Pakistan.Pakistan Army has long since nurtured these so called non state actors to engage in asymmetric warfare with India.LET,after being banned,remerged as JUD and carried on its activities.As the news report I posted earlier showed,the Pakistan government allowed the LET chief to import a bullet proof vehicle as recently as October 2008.So despite of all the love that Pakistanis show when Indians go to watch cricket matches, some Pakistanis donate to organizations like LET\JUD who keep on planning terrorist attacks on Indians. We could perhaps accept a certain number of Indian deaths as a cost of Pakistan's existence in the present form,or we could think what India can do.As Taha Mahmood and Aman Sethi have very nobly suggested,we could probably continue to ""to peer more closely and throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks and whites apart". Thanks Rahul -- On Thu, 1/8/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: "Aman Sethi" , "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 6:43 AM > Dear Rahul, > > How do you know that what ever I wrote was for some > 'benefit'? What was my > post if not a way of joining this discussion? You may > interpret my post in > what so ever a manner in which you deem fit, hence if in > your judgment my > post comes as patronizing, I say, fair enough!!! > > If you think that you were trying to understand the grays, > then dear Rahul, > I most humbly urge you to enlighten us more about the > issue. I will > certainly respond with my questions and comments. > > Kind regards > > Taha > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > Dear Taha, > > What is the benefit of throwing platitudes around? Why > don't you join the > > discussion and help us "to peer more closely and > > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before > we pull out the blacks > > and whites apart"? > > I am sorry but you are being patronizing.What makes > you think I was not > > already doing that? > > Regards > > Rahul > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > > > > From: Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and > ordered houses - re: 10 > > myths about pakistan > > > To: "Aman Sethi" > , "reader-list at sarai.net" > < > > reader-list at sarai.net> > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 11:54 AM > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I think if we invest some time in thinking about > the big > > > picture and > > > consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can > perhaps > > > arrive at a better > > > understanding of the situation. What we are > seeing in India > > > and Pakistan as > > > suggested by the recent spate of events in both > the > > > countries and > > > interpretations of these events, is a ripening up > of the > > > tension of the idea > > > of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear > notion of the > > > State in the > > > subcontinent, has produced certain dilemmas. > These > > > dilemmas are translated > > > and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily > formal in > > > their > > > orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass > we > > > witness an ugly > > > churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we > may invest > > > our energies to > > > arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take > a position > > > to suspend any > > > judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's > point of > > > view is invalid or > > > that Rahul's position is right on target or > Taraprakash > > > is way off the mark > > > but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we > need to peer > > > more closely and > > > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays > before we > > > pull out the blacks > > > and whites apart. > > > > > > Warm regards > > > > > > Taha > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Clearly this appears to be sliding towards > the type of > > > mudslinging (or > > > > murk slinging) that I have no desire to > engage with. > > > Hopefully none of > > > > us will ever need bulletproof cars. > > > > > > > > Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that > everyone who > > > simply says that > > > > maybe someone who says that the Indian Press > depicts a > > > flawed picture > > > > of pakistan is somehow a "human rights > > > activist". > > > > I also find it interesting that a > "human rights > > > activist" is now > > > > suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans > rights > > > activist!" "How dare > > > > you say anyone has any rights to anything at > all - > > > when people are > > > > dying on the streets!" > > > > > > > > (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road > accidents > > > actually kill about > > > > 275 people a day in India - > > > > > http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far > > > more than terror > > > > does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly > excised by > > > this loss. I'm > > > > worried because in the road accident,even > the > > > bullet-proof gift of the > > > > pakistan government will not help.) > > > > > > > > Of course one never wants to appear to be a > > > pak-apologist - good > > > > heavens no; or "progressive > journalist" - > > > what ever that is - i > > > > presume the rest are regressive journalists. > I must > > > confess a > > > > self-loathing, self-hating desire to be > progressive > > > rather than > > > > regressive - but rest assured I do not > demand that > > > others follow suit. > > > > > > > > To restate my point - I am not saying that > Pakistan > > > and India are > > > > these friendly neighbours who spend their > days passing > > > the pipe of > > > > peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan > army has > > > little or nothing to > > > > do with training armed non-state actors - in > fact even > > > the pakistan > > > > civil govt is not claiming that. > > > > I am merely saying that at times, it is > useful to > > > actually try and > > > > comprehend news that you disagree with - > which is why > > > hanif's piece is > > > > of interest - not so much because of the > piece - but > > > the reactions to > > > > it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking > through his > > > toupee/is a news > > > > illiterate/" > > > > > > > > If one accepts that the civil government and > the > > > military and the ISI > > > > have a fair degree of autonomy - it is > possible that > > > there is a > > > > certain absence of control. > > > > > > > > At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen > up and say > > > - enough is > > > > enough - but that is unintelligent - and > more > > > importantly - > > > > uninteresting. > > > > best > > > > a. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting this article. I am > sure Syed > > > Saleem Shahzad will also > > > > be honoured as someone "talking through > his > > > topee", to quote Yasir from an > > > > earlier mail. Another guy who "talks > through his > > > topee" is Pakistan based > > > > correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for > BBC hindi. > > > You can read another > > > > report by him on > > > > > www.bbchindi.com > > > > > on the nexus between Pakistani state > and Jihadi > > > elements working against > > > > India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does > not see the > > > water of nexus > > > > between the two murky; Chachad concludes > that these > > > groups are part of the > > > > state policy. I wonder if the state of > pakistan will > > > give these progressive > > > > journalists, the leftist activists and human > right > > > activists of Pakistan > > > > bullet proof cars. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > "Rahul > > > Asthana" < > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > > To: "taraprakash" > > > ; "Aman > Sethi" > > > > > > gmail.com> > > > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, > Mangoes and > > > ordered houses - re: 10 > > > > myths about pakistan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I wonder what new insight can be > gained by > > > reading Hanif's piece.He > > > > could be naive,or maybe he intentionally > does not want > > > to paint the full > > > > picture. > > > > >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling > by his > > > first point.There is an > > > > awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack > of > > > knowledge viz "Nobody knows > > > > the whole truth". How does he know? Has > he talked > > > with everybody? > > > > >> Why has he not made the distinction > between > > > the jihadis that they are > > > > killing the army (the good jihadis turned > bad of the > > > Alqaeda flavor) and the > > > > LET(the still good jihadis because they are > killing > > > Indians)? Does he not > > > > know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate > entities? > > > > >> I would comment on his other points > > > later.People may find the following > > > > article informative. > > > > >> > > > > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html > > > > >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan > > > > >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad > > > > >> > > > > >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the > > > Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) > > > > were sent on a "sacrificial" > mission to > > > Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - > > > > as they were expected to be - in battles > with Indian > > > security forces during > > > > their three-day rampage last week. > > > > >> > > > > >> What did not go according to plan > was the > > > capture of 21-year-old Ajmal > > > > Amir Kesab, who has given details of the > > > militants' plot that was hatched by > > > > elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services > Intelligence > > > (ISI) and the LET, > > > > including the training of the mission's > members at > > > PNS Iqbal (a naval > > > > commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam > near the > > > capital Islamabad. > > > > >> > > > > >> This single arrest has played very > badly with > > > the separate plans of > > > > >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, > the LET > > > and al-Qaeda. And beyond the > > > > escalating tensions between India and > Pakistan, the > > > crucial question now > > > > arises: Will Pakistan succumb to > Washington's > > > pressure to meaningfully clamp > > > > down on the LET - it is already banned - and > the ISI > > > forward section > > > > officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai > saga? > > > > >> > > > > >> "Everybody wishes for a war > between > > > India and Pakistan," a > > > > middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia > Times > > > Online on condition of > > > > anonymity. "Had prayers not been > prohibited for > > > the battle to happen, today > > > > all mujahideen would have been praying > Qunoot-i-Nazela > > > for battle between > > > > India and Pakistan as this is the key for > success for > > > the mujahideen from > > > > Afghanistan to India." (The > Qunoot-i-Nazala is a > > > prayer offered when there > > > > is extreme pressure from the enemy and God > is asked to > > > remove all fear and > > > > pressure and grant victory.) > > > > >> > > > > >> The militants obviously want their > war, but > > > the United States now wants > > > > war on the militants, and therein lies a > major > > > problem. > > > > >> > > > > >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of > the Joint > > > Chiefs of Staff, is in > > > > Islamabad, as is Secretary of State > Condoleezza Rice, > > > following her visit to > > > > India. Asia Times Online contacts say that > > > Mullen's overriding message will > > > > be for Pakistan to get serious about the > LET, which > > > has renamed itself > > > > Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved > in the > > > Mumbai plot. > > > > >> > > > > >> ATol earlier outlined how a > low-level ISI > > > forward section head (a major) > > > > allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in > India to > > > be turned into the > > > > Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda > 'hijack' led to > > > Mumbai attack December 2.) > > > > Ironically, it was as a result of US > pressure that > > > changes were made at the > > > > top levels of the ISI, resulting in the > situation in > > > which the major was > > > > able to make his fateful decision, seemingly > without > > > the knowledge of his > > > > superiors. > > > > >> Washington's pressure now puts > the > > > Pakistani military on the spot, and > > > > it will be a real test for new Chief of Army > Staff, > > > General Ashfaq Parvez > > > > Kiani, and the army's relationship with > militants. > > > > >> > > > > >> Militant support > > > > >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, > Hafiz > > > Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a > > > > city 363 kilometers north of the southern > port city of > > > Karachi, on November > > > > 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. > But after > > > the Mumbai attack on > > > > November 27, he was urgently summoned to > Rawalpindi, > > > the garrison city > > > > twinned with Islamabad, to attend a > high-profile > > > meeting held in the Office > > > > of Strategic Organization. > > > > >> > > > > >> He was told that the Indian air > force was on > > > high alert and asked what > > > > possible plans he had if India unleashed a > war. Saeed > > > assured that the LET > > > > would be the first line of defense against > the Indian > > > navy in the Arabian > > > > Sea through its marine operations, and that > it would > > > escalate its activities > > > > in India and Kashmir. He added that he would > tell > > > militants in Pakistan's > > > > troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) > to hold > > > their fire against the > > > > Pakistani security forces. > > > > >> > > > > >> At the same time, because of the > threat of > > > Indian strikes, all militant > > > > training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital > of > > > Pakistan-administered > > > > Kashmir, were evacuated. > > > > >> > > > > >> A top-level ISI official then held > a > > > background briefing for journalists > > > > in Islamabad in which he said if India > mobilized its > > > forces along the > > > > border, all Pakistani forces would be > withdrawn from > > > NWFP, where they are > > > > fighting Taliban and other militants. > Controversially, > > > he said that hardline > > > > Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud > and others > > > would support Pakistan > > > > if India waged war on the country. > > > > >> > > > > >> Further, the Pakistani security > forces > > > initiated a dialogue process with > > > > the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss > terms and > > > conditions for pulling > > > > out the Pakistani troops. > > > > >> > > > > >> An almost perfect plan > > > > >> The Mumbai attack relied on local > > > al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian > > > > Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi > (Tauqir). He > > > had cased the Jewish > > > > community center that was attacked and where > several > > > people were killed. His > > > > information was that it was being used by > Israeli > > > intelligence - Mossad. > > > > >> > > > > >> Information on such key targets was > passed on > > > to the LET, and its > > > > well-trained commandos then carried out > their > > > meticulously planned operation > > > > in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for > 72 hours. > > > > >> > > > > >> Abdus Subhan had planned other > attacks on > > > Indian strategic targets > > > > immediately after the Mumbai attack, but > Kasab's > > > arrest prevented this > > > > through his revelations of his LET > background. > > > > >> > > > > >> Washington appears to accept that > the Mumbai > > > attack was not carried out > > > > at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan > army, or > > > even by the ISI's high > > > > command. But there is now proof of the > involvement of > > > the LET and of some > > > > junior ISI officials. It is on this point > that the US > > > will apply pressure on > > > > Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. > > > > >> > > > > >> But there is a problem. > > > > >> > > > > >> Militants tighten their grip > > > > >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling > out of > > > control, with militancy > > > > spilling over from the tribal areas into > this > > > province. > > > > >> > > > > >> In the past four days, militants > have > > > abducted a record 60 people from > > > > the provincial capital Peshawar, most of > them retired > > > army officers and > > > > members or relatives of the Awami National > Party > > > (ANP), which rules in the > > > > province. The Taliban have butchered many > people with > > > affiliations to the > > > > ANP or those with relatives in the security > apparatus. > > > > >> > > > > >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty > Organization > > > supply convoys passing > > > > through Khyber Agency en route to > Afghanistan have > > > come under increasing > > > > attacks. In the most recent incident, > militants > > > destroyed 40 containers in > > > > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of > Peshawar. > > > > >> > > > > >> In this anarchic situation, the > Jamaatut Dawa > > > (LET), with its > > > > well-defined vertical command structure > under the > > > single command of Saeed, > > > > could commit its several thousand members, > virtually a > > > para-military force, > > > > to the cause of the anti-state > al-Qaeda-linked > > > Pakistani militants. > > > > >> > > > > >> What has stopped the anti-India > orientated > > > group from doing this is its > > > > under-riding loyalty to and support from > Pakistan. If > > > the authorities start > > > > to mess with the LET, beyond the routine > rhetoric, all > > > hell could break > > > > loose inside the country. > > > > >> > > > > >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on > the ISI, > > > there could be a severe > > > > reaction from the more hardline elements in > that > > > organization, as well as in > > > > the military. > > > > >> > > > > >> To date, the authorities have not > given any > > > indication of their plans. > > > > If they do indeed resist the overtures of > Mullen and > > > Rice, it is most likely > > > > that the Pakistani armed forces will > withdraw from the > > > Swat Valley and > > > > Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for > the > > > Taliban-led insurgency n > > > > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected > to launch > > > further attacks on > > > > India, with dire consequences for whole > South Asia > > > region. > > > > >> > > > > >> Yet the alternative of cracking > down on the > > > LET is equally unappealing, > > > > and potentially as disastrous. > > > > >> > > > > >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times > > > Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can > > > > be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> From: Aman Sethi > > > > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] > Myths, Mangoes > > > and ordered houses - re: 10 > > > > myths about pakistan > > > > >>> To: "taraprakash" > > > > > > > >>> Cc: "sarai list" > > > > > > > >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, > 2009, 12:04 > > > AM > > > > >>> Dear Taraprakash, > > > > >>> I have never denied the > presence of > > > militant groups in > > > > >>> pakistan. That > > > > >>> there are "links" > between armed > > > groups and power > > > > >>> centres in pakistan > > > > >>> is not something i am > contesting - I > > > think the interesting > > > > >>> question is > > > > >>> the nature of these > "links" and > > > the nature of the > > > > >>> state. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> If I was to say the > "Indian > > > state" has > > > > >>> connections with terror > > > > >>> organisations in kashmir - what > would > > > that mean? One would > > > > >>> then ask - > > > > >>> okay - which organ of the state > - so say > > > we say the IB - or > > > > >>> in the > > > > >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - > then once > > > asks - okay, so does > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> director of IB/ISI have direct > contact > > > with a militant > > > > >>> commander? > > > > >>> Probably not - its probably a > connection > > > between mid-tier > > > > >>> people on > > > > >>> both sides - from here on we > start > > > entering reasonably > > > > >>> murky waters > > > > >>> -which get murkier as one tries > to plumb > > > its depths (sorry > > > > >>> for the > > > > >>> mixed metaphor) ... > > > > >>> and Hanif's piece - gives > an idea of > > > the complications > > > > >>> in drawing > > > > >>> straight lines between dots > -that is all > > > I am saying. > > > > >>> best > > > > >>> a. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 > PM, > > > taraprakash > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would > just like > > > to clarify what I > > > > >>> said in an earlier > > > > >>> > mail. One would give the > benefit of > > > the doubt to the > > > > >>> batsman as long as > > > > >>> > there were doubts. I think > it is > > > baseless and > > > > >>> irresponsible to give a state > > > > >>> > clean chit just because it > sounds > > > progressive and > > > > >>> broad minded to do so. I > > > > >>> > wouldn't object if you > were to > > > say that even India > > > > >>> has links with Jihadi > > > > >>> > elements which Pakistan > claims India > > > uses to > > > > >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I > > > > >>> > will definitely not agree > with the > > > claim that > > > > >>> Pakistani state has no nexus > > > > >>> > with jihadi elements which > have > > > unfurling Pakistani > > > > >>> flag on Red fort as > > > > >>> > their stated aim. > > > > >>> > ----- Original Message > ----- From: > > > "Aman > > > > >>> Sethi" > > > > > >>> > To: "sarai list" > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, > 2009 5:05 > > > PM > > > > >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] > Myths,Mangoes > > > and ordered > > > > >>> houses - re: 10 myths about > > > > >>> > pakistan > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >> Dear All - > particularly Javed, > > > (who I thank for > > > > >>> posting this text) and > > > > >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir > -for their > > > thoughts, > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> This is in response to > a > > > conversation on the > > > > >>> authenticity/ > > > > >>> >> > "insightfullness" of > > > Mohammed > > > > >>> Hanif's text that appeared > in the > > > Times > > > > >>> >> of India in the Times > of India > > > -and I have > > > > >>> appended at the end of this > > > > >>> >> mail. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> I think the reason I > find > > > Mohammed Hanif's > > > > >>> text (appended below) > > > > >>> >> interesting is > primarily because > > > often when > > > > >>> reading/learning about > > > > >>> >> another place - > especially > > > through the eyes of > > > > >>> correspondents - it is > > > > >>> >> hard to imagine how > anyone lives > > > there at all. For > > > > >>> weeks I have been > > > > >>> >> having conversation > with friends > > > about how > > > > >>> pakistan appears to be > > > > >>> >> teetering on a brink > of some > > > sort - without really > > > > >>> knowing that that > > > > >>> >> brink is - how deep > the chasm is > > > - is it in the > > > > >>> chasm already - what > > > > >>> >> does it means to be in > the chasm > > > - or is there no > > > > >>> brink, no teetering, > > > > >>> >> no nothing except to > the grind > > > of the everyday. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> But fortunately, i > have also > > > been re-reading > > > > >>> Slaughterhouse Five - > > > > >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's > book on the > > > dresden > > > > >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, > after > > > > >>> >> describing the > devastation of > > > dresden as a > > > > >>> moonscape utterly ravaged > > > > >>> >> by carpet bombs, he > writes > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> "Billy's > story ended > > > very curiously in a > > > > >>> suburb untouched by fire and > > > > >>> >> explosions. The guards > and > > > americans came at > > > > >>> nightfall to an innn > > > > >>> >> which was open for > business. > > > There was > > > > >>> candlelight. There were fires > > > > >>> >> in three fireplaces > downstairs. > > > There were empty > > > > >>> tables ad chairs > > > > >>> >> waiting for anyone who > might > > > come, and empty beds > > > > >>> with covers turned > > > > >>> >> down upstairs." > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> On reading texts like > > > Slaughterhouse Five - or > > > > >>> Sebal's incredible > > > > >>> >> Natural History of > Destruction > > > there is the > > > > >>> tendency to abstract trite > > > > >>> >> observations like > "ordinary > > > people continue > > > > >>> with their normal lives > > > > >>> >> even as the world > collapses > > > around them." I > > > > >>> would argue that what > > > > >>> >> makes these texts > interesting > > > -and relevant - is > > > > >>> that they remind us > > > > >>> >> that this IS normal > life. This > > > horror, this > > > > >>> destruction, this > > > > >>> >> banality, this IS > normal life. > > > And Mohammed > > > > >>> Hanif's text - (without > > > > >>> >> placing it in the same > league) - > > > again gives us a > > > > >>> snapshot into the > > > > >>> >> normalcy of normal > life in > > > pakistan. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Reading the news on > the series > > > of bomb blasts in > > > > >>> Delhi, Surat, > > > > >>> >> Bangalore and > elsewhere through > > > the fall of 2008 - > > > > >>> one is tempted to > > > > >>> >> read the same spiral > of chaos, > > > the horror of > > > > >>> implosion and the > > > > >>> >> embarrassment of > "state > > > failure" that > > > > >>> Indians so happily foist upon > > > > >>> >> neighbouring > countries. But as > > > those living in > > > > >>> India will readily > > > > >>> >> testify; it certainly > doesnt > > > seem so - no matter > > > > >>> what the disaster, we > > > > >>> >> are firm in our belief > that > > > -like the batsman in > > > > >>> cricket - the > > > > >>> >> endurance of the state > should be > > > given the benefit > > > > >>> of doubt. Perhaps > > > > >>> >> we could accord others > in the > > > neighbourhood the > > > > >>> same privileges. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> The story of the > americans and > > > the innkeepers ends > > > > >>> something like this : > > > > >>> >> "The Blind > innkeeper said > > > that the americans > > > > >>> could sleep in his stable > > > > >>> >> that night, and he > gave them > > > soup and ersatz > > > > >>> coffee and a little beer. > > > > >>> >> Then he came out to > the stable > > > to listen to them > > > > >>> bedding down in the > > > > >>> >> straw. > > > > >>> >> "Good Night > > > Americans," he said in > > > > >>> German, "Sleep well." > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> best > > > > >>> >> a. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Ten myths about > Pakistan > > > > >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs > IST, > > > > >>> >> Mohammed Hanif > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Living in Pakistan and > reading > > > about it in the > > > > >>> Indian press can > > > > >>> >> sometimes be quite a > > > disorienting experience: one > > > > >>> wonders what place > > > > >>> >> on earth they're > talking > > > about? I wouldn't > > > > >>> be surprised if an Indian > > > > >>> >> reader going through > Pakistani > > > papers has asked > > > > >>> the same question in > > > > >>> >> recent days. Here are > some > > > common assumptions > > > > >>> about Pakistan and its > > > > >>> >> citizens that I have > come across > > > in the Indian > > > > >>> media... > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Pakistan controls the > jihadis: > > > Or Pakistan's > > > > >>> government controls the > > > > >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan > Army > > > controls the jihadis. Or > > > > >>> ISI controls the > > > > >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue > elements > > > from the ISI > > > > >>> control the Jihadis. > > > > >>> >> Nobody knows the whole > truth but > > > increasingly > > > > >>> it's the tail that wags > > > > >>> >> the dog. We must > remember that > > > the ISI-Jihadi > > > > >>> alliance was a marriage > > > > >>> >> of convenience, which > has broken > > > down irrevocably. > > > > >>> Pakistan army has > > > > >>> >> lost more soldiers at > the hands > > > of these jihadis > > > > >>> than it ever did > > > > >>> >> fighting India. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Musharraf was in > control, > > > Zardari is not: > > > > >>> Let's not forget that > > > > >>> >> General Musharraf > seized power > > > after he was fired > > > > >>> from his job as the > > > > >>> >> army chief by an > elected prime > > > minister. Musharraf > > > > >>> first appeased > > > > >>> >> jihadis, then bombed > them, and > > > then appeased them > > > > >>> again. The country > > > > >>> >> he left behind has > become a very > > > dangerous place, > > > > >>> above all for its > > > > >>> >> own citizens. There is > a latent > > > hankering in > > > > >>> sections of the Indian > > > > >>> >> middle class for a > strongman. > > > Give Manmohan Singh > > > > >>> a military uniform, > > > > >>> >> put all the armed > forces under > > > his direct command, > > > > >>> make his word the > > > > >>> >> law of the land, and > he too will > > > go around > > > > >>> thumping his chest saying > > > > >>> >> that it's his > destiny to > > > save India from > > > > >>> Indians . Zardari will never > > > > >>> >> have the kind of > control that > > > Musharraf had. But > > > > >>> Pakistanis do not > > > > >>> >> want another > Musharraf. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Pakistan, which > Pakistan? For a > > > small country, > > > > >>> Pakistan is very > > > > >>> >> diverse, not only > ethnically but > > > politically as > > > > >>> well. General > > > > >>> >> Musharraf's > government > > > bombed Pashtuns in the > > > > >>> north for being > > > > >>> >> Islamists and close to > the > > > Taliban and at the same > > > > >>> time it bombed > > > > >>> >> Balochs in the South > for NOT > > > being Islamists and > > > > >>> for subscribing to > > > > >>> >> some kind of > retro-socialist, > > > anti Taliban ethos. > > > > >>> You have probably > > > > >>> >> heard the joke about > other > > > countries having armies > > > > >>> but Pakistan's army > > > > >>> >> having a country. > Nobody in > > > Pakistan finds it > > > > >>> funny. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Pakistan and its loose > nukes: > > > Pakistan's > > > > >>> nuclear programme is under a > > > > >>> >> sophisticated command > and > > > control system, no more > > > > >>> under threat than > > > > >>> >> India or Israel's > nuclear > > > assets are > > > > >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish > > > > >>> >> extremists. For a long > time > > > Pakistan's > > > > >>> security establishment's > other > > > > >>> >> strategic asset was > jihadi > > > organisations, which in > > > > >>> the last couple of > > > > >>> >> years have become its > biggest > > > liability. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Pakistan is a failed > state: If > > > it is, then > > > > >>> Pakistanis have not > > > > >>> >> noticed. Or they have > lived in > > > it for such a long > > > > >>> time that they have > > > > >>> >> become used to its > dysfunctional > > > aspects. Trains > > > > >>> are late but they > > > > >>> >> turn up, there are > more VJs, > > > DJs, theatre > > > > >>> festivals, melas, and > > > > >>> >> fashion models than a > failed > > > state can > > > > >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase > > > > >>> >> from President > Zardari, there > > > are lots of > > > > >>> non-state actors like Abdul > > > > >>> >> Sattar Edhi who > provide > > > emergency health services, > > > > >>> orphanages and > > > > >>> >> shelters for sick > animals. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> It is a deeply > religious > > > country: Every > > > > >>> half-decent election in this > > > > >>> >> country has proved > otherwise. > > > Religious parties > > > > >>> have never won more > > > > >>> >> than a fraction of > popular vote. > > > Last year > > > > >>> Pakistan witnessed the > > > > >>> >> largest civil rights > movements > > > in the history of > > > > >>> this region. It was > > > > >>> >> spontaneous, secular > and > > > entirely peaceful. But > > > > >>> since people weren't > > > > >>> >> raising anti-India or > > > anti-America slogans, nobody > > > > >>> outside Pakistan > > > > >>> >> took much notice. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> All Pakistanis hate > India: Three > > > out of four > > > > >>> provinces in Pakistan - > > > > >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, > NWFP - have > > > never had any > > > > >>> popular anti-India > > > > >>> >> sentiment ever. > Punjabis who did > > > impose India as > > > > >>> enemy-in-chief on > > > > >>> >> Pakistan are now more > interested > > > in selling > > > > >>> potatoes to India than > > > > >>> >> destroying it. There > is a new > > > breed of al-Qaida > > > > >>> inspired jihadis who > > > > >>> >> hate a woman walking > on the > > > streets of Karachi as > > > > >>> much as they hate a > > > > >>> >> woman driving a car on > the > > > streets of Delhi. In > > > > >>> fact there is not much > > > > >>> >> that they do not hate: > they hate > > > America, Denmark, > > > > >>> China CDs, barbers, > > > > >>> >> DVDs , television, > even > > > football. Imran Khan > > > > >>> recently said that these > > > > >>> >> jihadis will never > attack a > > > cricket match but > > > > >>> nobody takes him > > > > >>> >> seriously. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Training camps: There > are > > > militant sanctuaries in > > > > >>> the tribal areas of > > > > >>> >> Pakistan but > definitely not in > > > Muzaffarabad or > > > > >>> Muridke, two favourite > > > > >>> >> targets for Indian > journalists, > > > probably because > > > > >>> those are the cities > > > > >>> >> they have ever been > allowed to > > > visit. After all > > > > >>> how much training do > > > > >>> >> you need if you are > going to > > > shoot at random > > > > >>> civilians or blow > > > > >>> >> yourself up in a > crowded bazaar? > > > So if anyone > > > > >>> thinks a few missiles > > > > >>> >> targeted at > Muzaffarabad will > > > teach anyone a > > > > >>> lesson, they should > > > > >>> >> switch off their TV > and try to > > > locate it on the > > > > >>> map. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> RAW would never do > what ISI > > > does: Both the > > > > >>> agencies have had a > > > > >>> >> brilliant record of > creating > > > mayhem in the > > > > >>> neighbouring countries. > > > > >>> >> Both have a dismal > record when > > > it comes to > > > > >>> protecting their own > > > > >>> >> people. There is a > simple reason > > > that ISI is a > > > > >>> bigger, more notorious > > > > >>> >> brand name: It was > CIA's > > > franchise during the > > > > >>> jihad against the > > > > >>> >> Soviets. And now > it's busy > > > doing jihad against > > > > >>> those very jihadis. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> Pakistan is poor, > India is rich: > > > Pakistanis > > > > >>> visiting India till the > > > > >>> >> mid-eighties came back > very > > > smug. They told us > > > > >>> about India's slums, > > > > >>> >> and that there was > nothing to > > > buy except > > > > >>> handicrafts and saris. Then > > > > >>> >> Pakistanis could say > with > > > justifiable pride that > > > > >>> nobody slept hungry > > > > >>> >> in their country. But > now, not > > > only do people > > > > >>> sleep hungry in both the > > > > >>> >> countries, they also > commit > > > suicide because they > > > > >>> see nothing but a > > > > >>> >> lifetime of hunger > ahead. A > > > debt-ridden farmer > > > > >>> contemplating suicide > > > > >>> >> in Maharashtra and a > mother who > > > abandons her > > > > >>> children in Karachi > > > > >>> >> because she can't > feed them: > > > this is what we > > > > >>> have achieved in our > > > > >>> >> mutual desire to teach > each > > > other a lesson. > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> The writer is the > author of > > > 'A Case of > > > > >>> Exploding Mangoes' > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms > > > > >>> >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > > >>> >> reader-list: an open > discussion > > > list on media and > > > > >>> the city. > > > > >>> >> Critiques & > Collaborations > > > > >>> >> To subscribe: send an > email to > > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > > >>> >> subscribe in the > subject header. > > > > >>> >> To unsubscribe: > > > > >>> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >>> >> List archive: > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > _________________________________________ > > > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion > list on > > > media and the city. > > > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to > > > > >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > subscribe in the subject > > > > >>> header. > > > > >>> To unsubscribe: > > > > >>> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > >>> List archive: > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jan 18 05:21:34 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:51:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] JuD ban an eyewash Message-ID: <322474.15590.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=152210 JuD ban an eyewash Wednesday, December 17, 2008 The much-trumpeted operation against Jamaat-ud-Daawa following a United Nations’ resolution against the terrorist outfit seems to be, frankly speaking, mere eyewash. One, the government had already forewarned JuD of the crackdown. This had provided ample time and opportunity to outfit members to disappear from the scene. Most offices of these organisations were found empty and locked when raided by the police. The police made no effort to enter these offices to seize any record or related incriminating evidence against them. Two, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, who is the head of the JuD, has been put under ‘house arrest’ where the detainee will not only have the comforts and facilities of his own abode, but also he will be able to communicate freely with JuD’s underground and field operatives without any check. Maulana Masood Azhar of the banned Jaish-e-Mohammad will enjoy the same privilege while he is under house arrest without any effective surveillance. Three, it is only a matter of time when all the detainees will be free either by the courts on bail applications or upon the expiry of the statutory period of detention under the Maintenance of Public Order (MPO) ordinance or even for lack of evidence against them. Also, there is apparently no law to stop these outfits to re-emerge under a different name. As for the freezing of assets and bank accounts of these organisations, they had enough time to withdraw funds and transfer cash to safe places as reported by your newspaper on Dec 15. The whole operation and the ongoing crackdown against these so-called jihadi or terrorist organisations seem to be a re-run of the 2001-2002 operation. M S Hasan Karachi From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jan 18 08:29:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:59:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901171859x39caa0c1qb90df166008ad78@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rahul Thank you for your response. I want to make three observations. First I think we have in front of us in the form of India and Pakistan a very important space which has had the good fortune of shared history, culture and language. Of course, not all cultures, languages etc were shared but some definitely were. In this scenario, I think, for me to articulate a position becomes very easy. I think my position would be similar to any person's position who knows something about India and Pakistan, that is, he/she is aware of the existence of a common umbilical cord that once tied these two lands together, but at the same time, he/she is unaware of a relatively small in scale yet significant social churning in the region. Hence I feel that there are many things about the India/Pakistan that I do not know but I want to know. Secondly, as an idea what we see here is coming together of many discourses that are being thought through across disciplines. We need to make more effort to garner as many voices from as many disciplines and indeed inter-disciplinary and non disciplinary voices to have a robust debate. And thirdly, I do not want to move away from discussing India/Pak issue. Why? Because I feel that in order to understand and make meaning of our own social environment we must make all efforts to to peer more closely and thoroughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks and whites apart. For instance,while reading your comments about the blog. I was particularly drawn to one observation,you write- LET,after being banned,reemerged as JUD. On the face of it the above assertion seems to relate to five factors- self, identity, language, naming and knowledge. Please allow me to inquire further. First, What do we mean when we say, LET,after being banned,reemerged as JUD? If I extend this idea further, then can one assert, that re-naming does not change anything, the self remains the same. In which case in so far as we can allege our membership to an organization or a social group we can claim a common self identity. If this being the case, then for instance if one is a resident of say x country, then can one claim the membership of that country only by voicing his allegiance, given that there exists a very informal manner in which the affairs of that country are carried out. Is this way of assertion correct? Second, by saying, LET,after being banned,reemerged as JUD, one hints towards the very core, that LET's identity did not change, that LET was as same as JUD. Now how are we to understand this? What do we mean when we say A was as same as B? Please allow me to suggest by the way of an example, this relates to a commodity that was in circulation in late 1980's and 1990's. Can one say that Cibaca toothpaste was as same as Binaca toothpaste? When some factors like content of the toothpaste, production values, higher management, sales team, total revenue, targeted customers etc at the moment of change of name were same. Even with Multiple Purpose National Identity Card I am struggling to find an answer to this very basic quesition. You know, if we look at material on MNIC hosted by GOI in the public domain, there seems to be no position of GOI in so far as the issue of identity is concerned and MNIC is supposed to be an 'identity'card. So we need to explore this very important issue of identity. What do we mean when we say A was as same as B. Third, we have to analyze what sort of a worldview we make when we frame the understanding of so process as thus-LET,after being banned,re-emerged as JUD. Because going by the confidence of this assertion, it seems, that there is a very clear understanding in the mind of the framer about the nature of LET and JUD as clear, distinct, verifiable, entities and he wants to convey this confidence to his reader. What we need to ask is this- What is LET and JUD? What do these names signify? Who runs these organizations?What is their agenda? What types of legitimizing arguments the organizations encompass and so on, which brings us to naming. Fourth, here I want to ask, what does it mean to have a name? What does it mean to say that for instance, I belong to BJP, or to RSS, or to CPM or to Congress. We have to ask this question with respect to naming for two reasons, first because we need to know, whether naming or name of an organization has any significant value from outside the organization and from inside the organization, if there is then what is the nature of that significance? Who benefits more if one says I am a member of xyz or the other who is indifferent to such a name or who is not indifferent or who wants to persecute all those who claims that they are members of xyz. The second being if there is no significance then why are we asked to believe in the profanity of a name? Why are we asked to identify ourselves as Hindus, Muslims Indians, Americans, Canadians, French, Buddhists etc. Fifth, it seemed that one is aware and one knows when one asserts- LET,after being banned,re-emerged as JUD. This assertion basically relates to the question of knowledge. In words of Donald Rumsfeld speaking about the dreaded WMD in Iraq-"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." Hence here it seems we are clearly stranded between known knowns, known unknowns and unknowns. This is, I think, an interesting starting point to work towards a deeper understanding of the whole LET? JUD? HuM? etc I tried to find a precedent to understand this phenomena and I think, in literature, in Ralph Ellison classic novel the Invisible Man, I see an interplay of issues that we have thus far touched. I thank you again for the effort you have taken to reply back and I shall do as much as i could to think with you on these important issues that you have raised in your comments. I have posted a small section of a rather long essay on Ralph Ellision's work Invisible Man, for you to read and think. This essay analyzes the tension that a self goes through in the event of re-naming, and re-conjecturing of identity as it fluctuates between visibility and invisibility. In organizations I think there seems to be a possibility of complete transparency coupled with complete opacity. This swing between opacity and transparency is most visible when we need, (those who are not part of this organization, or those who are but who do not have any access to the knowledge source,) to access some form of knowledge or data about which, we know that we don't know. In this event we cannot approach any organization with an assumption that there would be a probability of a hundred percent or the likeliness of an event either happening or not happening, that is why perhaps even when we carry out small, mundane tasks, like booking a railway ticket in India, for instance, we may be confident that we may get a ticket but we never be sure that we will not get or will get. In this regard Ralph Ellison's invisible man and the essay below is very instructive because it talks about the gray areas which witness a change in a self even as that self or the notion of the that which, we can say and that which is unsayable part of the self undergoes a profound transformation. Please feel free to take you time and I will look forward for your comments and I hope that in days to come we could have an interesting exchange of ideas. Warm regards Taha http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2838/is_2_36/ai_89872239/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1 Plunging history: naming and self-possession in Invisible Man - outside of - Critical Essay African American Review, Summer, 2002 by Jim Neighbors Prologue In several interviews, Ralph Ellison joins many of his readers in resolving Invisible Man into a declaration of coherent identity. Effectively interpreting Invisible Man as a modem Bildungsroman, Ellison says: "In my novel the narrator's development is one through blackness to light; that is, from ignorance to enlightenment: invisibility to visibility" (Graham and Singh 12); "It's a novel about innocence and human error, a struggle through illusion to reality" (14); "Whatever [Invisible Man] did when he returns ...should be based on the knowledge gained before he went underground. This is a question of self-knowledge and ability to identify the processes of the world" (74); "I do believe that knowing where we are, has a lot to do with our knowing who we are and this gets back to the theme, I hope, of identity with which [Invisible Man] was sometimes involved" (263). This chain of reasoning presents Invisible Man as successfully negotiating a labyrinth designed to rob him of his identity. Once his invisibility is made visible, a preeminent and self-reliant self lifts out of its confusing history in a parousia of self-knowledge and resolves to act or write--conflated by this logic into the same thing--a declaration of coherent identity. (1) This reading of Invisible Man as an heroic narrative of the ultimate re/possession of a dispossessed self derives out of Aristotelian conceptions of language and subjectivity. The Aristotelian logic of metaphor, in which a metaphor properly resembles the essence of a prelinguistic and determining referent, is compatible with--in fact, constitutive of--the logics of the transcendental Self and instrumental writing. The term Self serves as the literal figure that categorically names the proper transcendental Self that sits behind, as it were, the term. A person's proper name, in this way, is the literal--and, so, most proper--figure of the extralinguistic Self behind the name. The Self is a stable referent that extends itSelf to its proper name; the proper name thus consists of a transference, a carrying over, from the stable referent of the Self. What motivates one's proper name is the Self behind (before, a priori, etc.) the name. A proper relation of transference from Self to proper name ("Self") defines res emblance. The literalizing of the Self (to "Self" or proper name) is the process of naming, of properly rendering into language what exists prior to language. Writing, then, is instrumentalized in the process of naming: The term serves (as a tool, or vehicle) the a priori Self as slave to master. The master Self determines its linguistic presence by using appropriate language to name itSelf. Language does not interfere in the process; it merely serves the Self properly. Conceiving of a Self prior to and as master of writing provides the conceptual basis for interpreting Invisible Man as a Bildungsroman. By this logic, Invisible Man becomes the stable identity behind the writing of his story: He sits in his chamber, reflects on his life experiences, and writes his biography, the meaning of which is guaranteed by the referential stability and coherence of instrumentalized writing. The guarantee to reference in writing by the transcendental and a priori Self not only allows for the existence of referentially stable biography, but extends to any form of graphein. As long as writing can be mastered, then history can be written. But Invisible Man does not so neatly resolve into such coherence. Following a different narrator, this essay will argue that Invisible Man "plunges" modem fantasies of narrative coherence and stable identity, and defines history as being constituted by disruption, contingency, and the difference in writing. (2) And while these qualities do not "add up" to the logic of an aporia, I work to show that the relation between Invisible Man and his name is not dialectical but aporetic. (3) Dispossessing the Possessed Self The ostensibly declarative opening of Invisible Man--"I am an Invisible Man:--reveals, in a grammatical askesis of declaration, an in-completion of the subject. Instead of the predicate nominative properly complementing the subject, the modifier "Invisible" negates ("In") the empirical status of the object, "Man." The "object" thus disappears even as it is called into being, leaving "Man" to signify nothing other than a space of negation. This disrupted declaration, however, seems to be explained by the narrator in the second paragraph of the "Prologue": That invisibility to which I refer occurs because of a peculiar disposition of the eyes of those with whom I come in contact. A matter of the construction of their inner eyes, those eyes with which they look through their physical eyes upon reality.... you're constantly being bumped against by those of poor vision. Or again, you often doubt if you really exist. You wonder whether you aren't simply a phantom in other people's minds.... You ache with the need to convince yourself you do exist in the real world... and you swear to make them recognize you. And, alas, it's seldom successful. (3-4) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jan 18 09:25:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 03:55:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] (MNIC and photographs) PHOTOGRAPHY VIEW; Seven Thousand Pictures Are Better Than One Message-ID: <65be9bf40901171955s21bc9950t6d0b70ffb1f667a@mail.gmail.com> Dear All I have pasted below an old essay on photography. This essay expounds how photography which began as a exercise to collect visual data, developed into an art form by the 1960's. It seems that with the coming up of Multiple Purpose National Identity cards complete with a digital photograph, the officials of Registrar General's office are perhaps going to practice photography in its earliest avtaar. I wonder what effect it will have on our sensibility when we will look at an image of a MNIC card holder and think whether this image seems Indian or not, alternatively I do not know whether MNIC photographs will be able to influence our sensibilities at all to look and give credence to gird like photographs of our identity documents. Excerpt- This was also the era of the grid's apotheosis. Grid and module came to the foreground as the organizing principles behind work by artists like Carl Andre, Sol LeWitt and Agnes Martin. Grids connote a cool reverence for order and number (though artists are quite capable of injecting a certain amount of disarray into a series of right angles). Photographs once more readily fit the bill. The little rectangles are the perfect module for a grid construction, as anyone who has ever seen a contact sheet or a high school yearbook could attest. (Grids are so pervasive at the I.C.P. Midtown that the spots before your eyes are likely to be rectangular.) What the photograph added to the grid system was representation. Never mind how dumb and dull the subject was, the system now had to take something other than geometry into account. Please read the essay for more. Warm regards Taha http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7D81538F930A1575BC0A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1 PHOTOGRAPHY VIEW; Seven Thousand Pictures Are Better Than One By VICKI GOLDBERG; Published: August 23, 1992 Photography, which came along soon after the great age of the encyclopedia, was instantly seized on as a new means to collect data. The visible forms of flora, fauna and far-off lands, monuments, engineering feats and criminals' faces could all be catalogued, and were. Photography eventually turned almost everyone into a collector: cameras inevitably made their owners into accumulators, piling up endless evidence of friends, family and vacations. Amassing data was so natural with this instrument that a new era of hunting and gathering might be said to have come along in the history of evolution. No one thought any of the common variety of photographic accumulation, whether in slide libraries or news-photo files or family albums, had any claim to being art. But in the 1960's, the very activity of collecting data was turned into an art enterprise, as if the catalogue, the survey and the census were artistic models. Groups and sequences of related photographs that did not necessarily tell a story and were not often of much individual power were now presented as art objects. "Special Collections: The Photographic Order From Pop to Now," at the International Center of Photography Midtown (through Oct. 16), brings together work by many of the major and some of the minor players in this game. Though not all the art gets high marks and not much of it will make the heart go pitty-pat (or even intends to), this is an engaging show and certainly proves, if proof is needed, that the multi-photograph object is still alive and well and living in gallery land. Like just about everything else in contemporary life, this kind of art in effect started with Andy Warhol in the early 60's, when he silkscreened news pictures and portraits in series onto canvas. It was at about this point that artists who were not photographers began using photographs (sometimes appropriated from the mass media) in their art in a big way and even making art objects out of photographs alone. Pop Art reinforced this move by raising the status of the low-class, vernacular, mechanically reproduced and impersonally rendered image. Serial and Conceptual artists instinctively understood the virtues of a deadpan documentary medium like photography. The camera, like a perfect match for a personals ad, responded to the call. So at the moment when art was repudiating overt emotion, the grandeur of humanistic concerns, the distinctive individual touch and the notion of the masterpiece, Edward Ruscha photographed "Every Building on the Sunset Strip" and published the results in an accordion-fold book. "My pictures are not that interesting," he once said, "nor the subject matter. They are simply a collection of 'facts'; my book is more like a collection of ready-mades." In part this attitude, which others shared, was a revolt against the aggrandizement of individual emotion in Abstract Expressionism. No longer an impassioned creator flinging paint and angst, the artist posed as a neutral observer, an accountant of humdrum data wielding a camera like an adding machine. Goodbye De Kooning, hello Duchamp: photography was a kind of passport to a new philosophy. This was also the era of the grid's apotheosis. Grid and module came to the foreground as the organizing principles behind work by artists like Carl Andre, Sol LeWitt and Agnes Martin. Grids connote a cool reverence for order and number (though artists are quite capable of injecting a certain amount of disarray into a series of right angles). Photographs once more readily fit the bill. The little rectangles are the perfect module for a grid construction, as anyone who has ever seen a contact sheet or a high school yearbook could attest. (Grids are so pervasive at the I.C.P. Midtown that the spots before your eyes are likely to be rectangular.) John Baldessari made a sort of specialty of throwing both the grid and the photograph out of kilter. In one piece at the I.C.P. Midtown he repeatedly turned on its end a photograph of a chaotic event that appears to be people reacting to a bombing. In another -- "Horizontal Men (With One Luxuriating)" -- a couple of vertical fellows walk on their backs in conformity with the title. What the photograph added to the grid system was representation. Never mind how dumb and dull the subject was, the system now had to take something other than geometry into account. So Ray Metzger's "Telephone Booth" is wholly abstract at a distance but repeatedly spells out "phone" up close, and Bernd and Hilla Becher's varied arrays of water towers not only locate handsomely monumental forms but speak of the nature of the industrial landscape. The grid is in theory infinitely extendible. Who knows why the artist quit at nine rectangles across? Why not ten? Fifteen? Twenty? Arnaud Maggs takes the question seriously in "48 Views Series," a 9-foot-high, 31-foot-long collection of photo-booth-type pictures of 162 people, each photographed 48 times: a total of 7,776 images. With such a barrage of pictures, the intrigue resides in the irregularities -- a blank space where a portrait should be, a wavering and misaligned vertical strip -- but the work also gives off a faint whiff of the evil of banality. It seems that the camera turned willing artists into mad encyclopedists. Douglas Huebler made a sprightly visual enterprise out of a Conceptual vow: "Throughout the remainder of the artist's lifetime he will photographically document, to the extent of his capacity, the existence of everyone alive in order to produce the most authentic and inclusive representation of the human species that may be assembled in that manner." Dennis Adams constructed an alphabet from 26 pictures of Patricia Hearst. Judy Fiskin took tiny, poker-faced photographs of unprepossessing houses in a long sequence called the "Dingbat" series. You could reasonably consider "Special Collections" the biggest art bargain in town. Where else could you see well over 8,000 photographs without wilting entirely away? Like any artistic form, the multi-photograph object can express different demeanors and aims, from neutrality to satire to social comment. Artists do not always succeed in conveying their intentions, but intentions matter. The one real lapse in this show occurs when they are ignored. Sixteen photographs of baseball players on phonograph record covers from 1962, though charming, were not meant to be art, were not meant to be seen as a group and were not meant to be displayed on the wall. Once more Duchamp rears his head. Had an artist appropriated and grouped these very same images, presto, change-o, they would have become a bona fide art object. Curators, however, do not yet have that much latitude. Using photographs must have seemed like an amusing idea to artists raised on Jackson Pollock, and some played the medium for smiles. In "Chest of Moles (Portrait of Pamela)," Robert Watts has framed tiny photographs of all the moles on a woman's body and displayed them in a glass-fronted chest. Others, like Christian Boltanski, use multiple appropriated images to speak to the emotions, forgoing the supposed objectivity of photographs that lured many artists in the 60's. "The 62 Members of the Mickey Mouse Club in 1955" consists of pictures, rephotographed, that children back then had selected to represent themselves at their best. Those children are middle-aged now, and some are probably rich and others dead, some are faithful husbands and some divorced, and still they smile and clutch their pets as if yesterday were forever. Rick Hock uses more obviously loaded imagery in "Codex (St. Sebastian)," which includes Andrea Mantegna's St. Sebastian, Jacques-Louis David's "Death of Marat," some stills from film comedies and pictures of hell. Hock brings things up to date on appropriation by including the book jackets of "The Art of Describing" and "The Art of Memory" to hint that memory depends on images reproduced in one medium or another. He also brings us back to the origins of this kind of multi-photo art: one of his central images is Richard Avedon's photograph of Warhol's horribly ravaged torso after he was shot. No doubt St. Andy is the proper patron/protector of this art form. He was a rabid collector, scavenging images as much as objects. He consciously turned himself into a wholly neutral, tape-recording observer, an artist who worked so mechanically he could give instructions for art on the phone. The damages to his body, like everything about Warhol, could be represented, exhibited and endlessly reproduced, then appropriated for someone else's work (along with both high art and popular imagery) and ultimately converted into an icon commensurate with his fame. Vicki Goldberg is the author of "The Power of Photography: How Photographs Changed Our Lives." From vashsand at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 19:13:57 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:43:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] The Power of the Pulpit Message-ID: http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJan2009/coverjan2009.htm _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 02:45:36 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:15:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901171859x39caa0c1qb90df166008ad78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465953.26908.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Taha, Thank you for your response.Apparently I did not know what I am asking for when I thought I could "grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks and whites apart" with you.I'll admit I do not have the stomach for this kind of thing.For the sake of my own sanity I will have to ask you to excuse me.I hope we can resolve this amicably.I retract all my posts addressed to you.This would be my last post in this thread. I wish you all the best. Thank you Rahul --- On Sun, 1/18/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: "Aman Sethi" , "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 8:29 AM > Dear Rahul > > Thank you for your response. > > I want to make three observations. > > First I think we have in front of us in the form of India > and Pakistan a > very important space which has had the good fortune of > shared history, > culture and language. Of course, not all cultures, > languages etc were shared > but some definitely were. > > In this scenario, I think, for me to articulate a position > becomes very > easy. I think my position would be similar to any > person's position who > knows something about India and Pakistan, that is, he/she > is aware of the > existence of a common umbilical cord that once tied these > two lands > together, but at the same time, he/she is unaware of a > relatively small in > scale yet significant social churning in the region. > > Hence I feel that there are many things about the > India/Pakistan that I do > not know but I want to know. > > Secondly, as an idea what we see here is coming together of > many discourses > that are being thought through across disciplines. We need > to make more > effort to garner as many voices from as many disciplines > and indeed > inter-disciplinary and non disciplinary voices to have a > robust debate. > > And thirdly, I do not want to move away from discussing > India/Pak issue. > Why? Because I feel that in order to understand and make > meaning of our own > social environment we must make all efforts to to peer more > closely and > thoroughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we > pull out the blacks > and whites apart. > > For instance,while reading your comments about the blog. I > was particularly > drawn to one observation,you write- LET,after being > banned,reemerged as JUD. > > > On the face of it the above assertion seems to relate to > five factors- self, > identity, language, naming and knowledge. > > Please allow me to inquire further. > > First, What do we mean when we say, LET,after being > banned,reemerged as JUD? > If I extend this idea further, then can one assert, that > re-naming does not > change anything, the self remains the same. In which case > in so far as we > can allege our membership to an organization or a social > group we can claim > a common self identity. If this being the case, then for > instance if one is > a resident of say x country, then can one claim the > membership of that > country only by voicing his allegiance, given that there > exists a very > informal manner in which the affairs of that country are > carried out. Is > this way of assertion correct? > > Second, by saying, LET,after being banned,reemerged as JUD, > one hints > towards the very core, that LET's identity did not > change, that LET was as > same as JUD. Now how are we to understand this? What do we > mean when we say > A was as same as B? Please allow me to suggest by the way > of an example, > this relates to a commodity that was in circulation in late > 1980's and > 1990's. Can one say that Cibaca toothpaste was as same > as Binaca toothpaste? > When some factors like content of the toothpaste, > production values, higher > management, sales team, total revenue, targeted customers > etc at the moment > of change of name were same. Even with Multiple Purpose > National Identity > Card I am struggling to find an answer to this very basic > quesition. You > know, if we look at material on MNIC hosted by GOI in the > public domain, > there seems to be no position of GOI in so far as the issue > of identity is > concerned and MNIC is supposed to be an > 'identity'card. So we need to > explore this very important issue of identity. What do we > mean when we say A > was as same as B. > > Third, we have to analyze what sort of a worldview we make > when we frame the > understanding of so process as thus-LET,after being > banned,re-emerged as > JUD. Because going by the confidence of this assertion, it > seems, that there > is a very clear understanding in the mind of the framer > about the nature of > LET and JUD as clear, distinct, verifiable, entities and he > wants to convey > this confidence to his reader. What we need to ask is this- > What is LET and > JUD? What do these names signify? Who runs these > organizations?What is their > agenda? What types of legitimizing arguments the > organizations encompass and > so on, which brings us to naming. > > Fourth, here I want to ask, what does it mean to have a > name? What does it > mean to say that for instance, I belong to BJP, or to RSS, > or to CPM or to > Congress. We have to ask this question with respect to > naming for two > reasons, first because we need to know, whether naming or > name of an > organization has any significant value from outside the > organization and > from inside the organization, if there is then what is the > nature of that > significance? Who benefits more if one says I am a member > of xyz or the > other who is indifferent to such a name or who is not > indifferent or who > wants to persecute all those who claims that they are > members of xyz. The > second being if there is no significance then why are we > asked to believe in > the profanity of a name? Why are we asked to identify > ourselves as Hindus, > Muslims Indians, Americans, Canadians, French, Buddhists > etc. > > Fifth, it seemed that one is aware and one knows when one > asserts- LET,after > being banned,re-emerged as JUD. This assertion basically > relates to the > question of knowledge. In words of Donald Rumsfeld speaking > about the > dreaded WMD in Iraq-"Reports that say that something > hasn't happened are > always interesting to me, because as we know, there are > known knowns; there > are things we know we know. We also know there are known > unknowns; that is > to say we know there are some things we do not know. But > there are also > unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't > know." Hence here it > seems we are clearly stranded between known knowns, known > unknowns and > unknowns. > > This is, I think, an interesting starting point to work > towards a deeper > understanding of the whole LET? JUD? HuM? etc > > I tried to find a precedent to understand this phenomena > and I think, in > literature, in Ralph Ellison classic novel the Invisible > Man, I see an > interplay of issues that we have thus far touched. > > I thank you again for the effort you have taken to reply > back and I shall do > as much as i could to think with you on these important > issues that you have > raised in your comments. > > I have posted a small section of a rather long essay on > Ralph Ellision's > work Invisible Man, for you to read and think. This essay > analyzes the > tension that a self goes through in the event of re-naming, > and > re-conjecturing of identity as it fluctuates between > visibility and > invisibility. > > In organizations I think there seems to be a possibility of > complete > transparency coupled with complete opacity. This swing > between opacity and > transparency is most visible when we need, (those who are > not part of this > organization, or those who are but who do not have any > access to the > knowledge source,) to access some form of knowledge or data > about which, we > know that we don't know. > > In this event we cannot approach any organization with an > assumption that > there would be a probability of a hundred percent or the > likeliness of an > event either happening or not happening, that is why > perhaps even when we > carry out small, mundane tasks, like booking a railway > ticket in India, for > instance, we may be confident that we may get a ticket but > we never be sure > that we will not get or will get. In this regard Ralph > Ellison's invisible > man and the essay below is very instructive because it > talks about the gray > areas which witness a change in a self even as that self or > the notion of > the that which, we can say and that which is unsayable part > of the self > undergoes a profound transformation. > > Please feel free to take you time and I will look forward > for your comments > and I hope that in days to come we could have an > interesting exchange of > ideas. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2838/is_2_36/ai_89872239/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1 > > Plunging history: naming and self-possession in Invisible > Man - outside of - > Critical Essay > African American Review, Summer, 2002 by Jim Neighbors > > Prologue > > In several interviews, Ralph Ellison joins many of his > readers in resolving > Invisible Man into a declaration of coherent identity. > Effectively > interpreting Invisible Man as a modem Bildungsroman, > Ellison says: "In my > novel the narrator's development is one through > blackness to light; that is, > from ignorance to enlightenment: invisibility to > visibility" (Graham and > Singh 12); "It's a novel about innocence and human > error, a struggle through > illusion to reality" (14); "Whatever [Invisible > Man] did when he returns > ...should be based on the knowledge gained before he went > underground. This > is a question of self-knowledge and ability to identify the > processes of the > world" (74); "I do believe that knowing where we > are, has a lot to do with > our knowing who we are and this gets back to the theme, I > hope, of identity > with which [Invisible Man] was sometimes involved" > (263). This chain of > reasoning presents Invisible Man as successfully > negotiating a labyrinth > designed to rob him of his identity. Once his invisibility > is made visible, > a preeminent and self-reliant self lifts out of its > confusing history in a > parousia of self-knowledge and resolves to act or > write--conflated by this > logic into the same thing--a declaration of coherent > identity. (1) > > This reading of Invisible Man as an heroic narrative of > the ultimate > re/possession of a dispossessed self derives out of > Aristotelian conceptions > of language and subjectivity. The Aristotelian logic of > metaphor, in which a > metaphor properly resembles the essence of a prelinguistic > and determining > referent, is compatible with--in fact, constitutive of--the > logics of the > transcendental Self and instrumental writing. The term Self > serves as the > literal figure that categorically names the proper > transcendental Self that > sits behind, as it were, the term. A person's proper > name, in this way, is > the literal--and, so, most proper--figure of the > extralinguistic Self behind > the name. The Self is a stable referent that extends itSelf > to its proper > name; the proper name thus consists of a transference, a > carrying over, from > the stable referent of the Self. What motivates one's > proper name is the > Self behind (before, a priori, etc.) the name. A proper > relation of > transference from Self to proper name ("Self") > defines res emblance. The > literalizing of the Self (to "Self" or proper > name) is the process of > naming, of properly rendering into language what exists > prior to language. > Writing, then, is instrumentalized in the process of > naming: The term serves > (as a tool, or vehicle) the a priori Self as slave to > master. The master > Self determines its linguistic presence by using > appropriate language to > name itSelf. Language does not interfere in the process; it > merely serves > the Self properly. > > Conceiving of a Self prior to and as master of writing > provides the > conceptual basis for interpreting Invisible Man as a > Bildungsroman. By this > logic, Invisible Man becomes the stable identity behind the > writing of his > story: He sits in his chamber, reflects on his life > experiences, and writes > his biography, the meaning of which is guaranteed by the > referential > stability and coherence of instrumentalized writing. The > guarantee to > reference in writing by the transcendental and a priori > Self not only allows > for the existence of referentially stable biography, but > extends to any form > of graphein. As long as writing can be mastered, then > history can be > written. > > But Invisible Man does not so neatly resolve into such > coherence. Following > a different narrator, this essay will argue that Invisible > Man "plunges" > modem fantasies of narrative coherence and stable identity, > and defines > history as being constituted by disruption, contingency, > and the difference > in writing. (2) And while these qualities do not "add > up" to the logic of an > aporia, I work to show that the relation between Invisible > Man and his name > is not dialectical but aporetic. (3) > > Dispossessing the Possessed Self > > The ostensibly declarative opening of Invisible > Man--"I am an Invisible > Man:--reveals, in a grammatical askesis of declaration, an > in-completion of > the subject. Instead of the predicate nominative properly > complementing the > subject, the modifier "Invisible" negates > ("In") the empirical status of the > object, "Man." The "object" thus > disappears even as it is called into being, > leaving "Man" to signify nothing other than a > space of negation. This > disrupted declaration, however, seems to be explained by > the narrator in the > second paragraph of the "Prologue": > > That invisibility to which I refer occurs because of a > peculiar disposition > of the eyes of those with whom I come in contact. A matter > of the > construction of their inner eyes, those eyes with which > they look through > their physical eyes upon reality.... you're constantly > being bumped against > by those of poor vision. Or again, you often doubt if you > really exist. You > wonder whether you aren't simply a phantom in other > people's minds.... You > ache with the need to convince yourself you do exist in the > real world... > and you swear to make them recognize you. And, alas, > it's seldom successful. > (3-4) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 19 05:01:13 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:31:13 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-66 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901181531s626a605fse54d203193c73b44@mail.gmail.com> * http://exim.indiamart.com/budget-2007-08/rail-budget2007-08/overview-rail-budget-07-08.html RAILWAY RESERVATION AT E-SEVA OF STATE GOVERNMENTS, POST OFFICES, PETROL PUMPS AND ATMS OF BANKS* *E-TICKET CHARGE FOR SLEEPER/AC SLASHED TRAIN ENQUIRY CALL CENTRES INTRODUCED HAND HELD COMPUTER TERMINALS FOR TTES 8000 UTS COUNTERS AND 6000 AUTOMATIC TICKET VENDING MACHINES FOR UNRESERVED TRAVEL* The number of computerized UTS counters will be increased to 8000 over the next two years. 6000 automatic ticket vending machines will also be installed in major cities and connected with UTS terminals during the same period. Tickets would also be made available at a press of a button by using smart cards for currencycoins. Railway also proposes to undertake a pilot project of issuing tickets through multi purpose smart cards. Under this scheme, customers will have facility to obtain MST as well as daily ticket on the same card. The card would be re-chargeable at different places and readable on touch by the hand held terminals of TTEs. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 19 05:03:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:33:34 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-67 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901181533x673fc06eta6b97a69d60711ec@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=118452 States back Centre on sending back Bangladeshi immigrants NEW DELHI, FEB 8 (PTI) States today backed the Centre in its resolve to send back the nearly 15 million illegal Bangladeshi migrants in India, but refused to agree to the setting up of a federal agency to combat terrorism and organised crime. A day-long Conference of Chief Ministers on Internal Security, inaugurated by Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, reviewed the overall security situation with special emphasis on terrorism, illegal migration and left-wing extremism and discussed issuance of multi-purpose identity cards. "Government is determined to ensure that illegal immigrants from Bangladesh, whose number is estimated at 1.5 crore, are sent back. There is determination among the states to reverse the whole trend of illegal migration," Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani told reporters while briefing on the outcome of the conference here. On the appeal made by the Prime Minister to the states to consider setting up of a Central Law Enforcement Agency to deal with well-defined federal crimes, Advani said there was no consensus among chief ministers as several of them felt it would diminish the authority and powers of their states. "But I do not feel that way. Purpose of a federal agency is to strengthen the states rather than in any way diminish their powers", he said, observing that the Centre would continue discussions with states on the issue. Advani rejected the proposal mooted by several chief ministers that CBI be given greater powers to deal with crimes having ramifications in more than one state, saying that the agency can be handed over a case only if a state government recommended or a court ordered. Addressing the conference, Vajpayee charged Pakistan with taking "no significant action" to dismantle terrorist infrastructure and said reports had suggested that territories in Nepal and Bangladesh were now being used by ISI to pursue anti-India agenda. "Available reports suggest that the territories of Nepal and Bangladesh are now being used by ISI to pursue its anti-India agenda. Therefore, we have to intensify our efforts to counter terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir and subversive activities both in those states that border these two countries and elsewhere," he said. Vajpayee said "for us, the most disconcerting aspect of terrorism is that it is sponsored, supported and funded by Pakistan as a matter of state policy." The Prime Minister said Pakistani establishment did not appear to be interested in establishing tension-free and good neighbourly relations with India by ending its proxy war and was violating UN Resolution 1373 by supporting terrorists. The Chief Ministers welcomed a Union Home Ministry Committee report suggesting increase from 50 per cent to 75 per cent central allocation for modernisation of state police forces. Advani said the recommendations would have to be approved by the Finance Ministry to ensure their implementation. While the Central assistance would comprise 50 per cent grant and 25 per cent long-term loan, the remaining 25 per cent would have to be borne by the states, the Committee had suggested. On the issue of illegal migration, Advani said the government was considering issuing multi-purpose identity cards to the people to combat the menace and pilot projects for the purpose had already been started. Asked if corruption in BSF was leading to migration of Bangladeshis into India, he said there might be an "element" of corruption but that was not the reason for the large-scale migration. Without giving figures, Advani expressed satisfaction over identification of Bangladeshis and their being sent back to their country. He said the recent crisis on the West Bengal border over 213 stranded Bangladeshis could not have been resolved without the cooperation of the state government. The chief ministers also demanded that the coastal security be handed over to the Coast Guard. Government would also conside r convening a conference to discuss the recommendations of the National Police Commission including transfer and postings of police officials, an issue that has been agitating IPS officers across the country. There was unanimity also on strengtheing special branches of police forces and making full use of the intelligence apparatus and the joint task force on intelligence set up by the Home Ministry. To counter left-wing extremism, Advani said joint task forces could also be set up by concerned states for coordination. The meet also stressed the need for police patrolling and fencing in areas along Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan and Myanmar, besides taking diplomatic initiatives with these countries to get insurgent camps there dismantled. As Pakistan had widened the arc of its terrorist offensive to cover not only J and K but also other states, the chief ministers agreed that the states would set up special task forces with trained personnel and modern weaponry to effectively deal with and neutralise ISI-sponsored terrorist cells. The need to accelerate fencing along the Indo-Bangla border was also emphasised at the conference. It also expressed satisfaction on the steps being taken by the Centre to negotiate peace accords with insurgent groups in the North East. From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 08:22:43 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:22:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 20TH JAN. :PROTEST AGAINST ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS Message-ID: <47e122a70901181852j16b1bad3wfc7168d21350a6c1@mail.gmail.com> PROTEST AGAINST ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS On Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 2.00 pm onward At Mandi House, Safdar Hashmi Road, New Delhi The theocratic Israeli State has been known for its barbarism since its inception in 1948. Despite hundreds of UNO resolutions and constant condemnation by the civilized world, Israel has continued to massacre innocent Palestinians over the years. There is no denying that Israeli terrorism continues unabated due to the support of USA, its lackeys and armament lobby. The latest aggression on Gaza has crossed all limits with women and children being the majority of the casualties. Writers, journalists, teachers, cultural activists, artists, lawyers, students, Dalit and women activists of Delhi will gather at Safdar Hashmi Road, Mandi House (Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 2.00 pm onward) to paint, recite poetry, sing songs, perform street theatre against Israeli barbarism unleashed on Palestinians. All are cordially invited. Dalit Lekhak Sangh (M-9899700767), Forum for Democratic Struggle, Delhi University (01127667209), International Association of People's Lawyers (Delhi Chapter, M-9210421050 & 9891045573) Jan Sanskriti Manch (M-9818755922), Janvadi Lekhak Sangh (M-9811119391), Justice Movement of India (011-25105732) Milli Gazette (M-9811142151), New Socialist Initiative (01127876523), Nishant Natya Manch (M-9968007740), Pragateesheel Lekhak Sangh (M-9810598859), Revolutionary Democracy (M-9868576567), Sahmat (011-2371 1276) Samajwadi Shikshak Manch (011-22371220), UNI Workers Union (M-9868418273), Yuva Bharat (M-9868456745). -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From yasir.media at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 15:00:04 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:30:04 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of Pakistan. Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were cleaned up by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and not tolerated. From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 15:36:42 2009 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:36:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Panun Kashmir observes 19th Holocaust Day" Message-ID: <4fcaee300901190206g7bcdd5bdt34495a902350527e@mail.gmail.com> http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=156650 Panun Kashmir observes 19th Holocaust Day It was on this day when terrorists under the aegis of JKLF and other allied outfits declared war against minority Kashmiri Pandit community through hate campaigns, threats, selective killings, bomb attacks etc. PANUN KASHMIR on Sunday (January 18), organised a Kashmiri Pandit community meet in Jammu to observe the 19th Holocaust Day. Recalling January 19, 1990, Dr Ajay Chrungoo said, "It was on this day when terrorists under the aegis of JKLF and other allied outfits declared war against minority Kashmiri Pandit community through hate campaigns, threats, selective killings, bomb attacks etc. This paved way for religious cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus, the original inhabitants of Kashmir. No Kashmiri Pandit who has lived through those days in Kashmir and retains some sensitivity can overcome the nightmarish experiences". He further said that this is why on this day Kashmiri Hindus hold protests, take out rallies and make a resolve to keep reminding the world that this community will never accept its cleansing as a fait accompli. Kashmiri Pandits have been great survivors and survived seven exoduses in the past 650 years, they retain the will to survive in future also, Dr Chrungoo declared. ON Trisal praised Panun Kashmir leadership for carrying on the struggle with vision and determination. He recalled the moments of December, 1991 when Kashmiri Pandits under the aegis of Panun Kashmir at the site in Jammu named after the great Saivite Acharya Abhinavgupta passed a resolution demanding their 'Homeland'. "We have been thrown out seven times and 'no exodus any more' was our firm resolve this time. We have demanded a 'Homeland' for our rehabilitation," Trisal lamented. Displaying strong optimism Trisal said, "We have dreams and dreams will come to fruition, when winter comes, can spring be far behind. While welcoming the Government of India in seeking global cooperation in the war against terrorism Kuldeep Raina said, "The Mumbai terrorist violence has galvanised the national opinion and crystallised national consensus more than any act of violence in recent times. The religious cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus from Kashmir did not outrage the nation even though in intensity and by implication it continues to be a gruesome attack on the 'Idea of India'. Pandits may be lacking in population mass but they retain great symbolic significance. Every single act of defiance by them would become a force multiplier." Prof ML Kaul called upon the community members to prepare for a demonstrative phase of 'Panun Kashmir Movement. The meet concluded with a resolve to fight the internal and well as external enemy; to raise their banner of struggle against all kinds of terror and to awaken world opinion for reversing the genocide of Hindus in Kashmir as a cardinal principal of fight against terrorism. From alice at tank.tv Fri Jan 16 16:14:28 2009 From: alice at tank.tv (Alice O'Reilly) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:44:28 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] www.tank.tv : Claire Hope : 15th - 31st January 2009 Message-ID: <442eb4460901160244n53e4c0b6x556caf8ec32eb97b@mail.gmail.com> *CLAIRE HOPE www.tank.tv 15th - 31st January 2009* Originally from North Yorkshire, Claire Hope is now based in London; graduating with an MA Fine Art from Chelsea College of Art in 2004. Claire has produced a number of solo installations and shown widely in group exhibitions; recently screening video work internationally as part of the touring transmediale.07 video selection and presenting a solo exhibition at Way East Project Space, London in May 2008. Claire was also a 2007/8 LUX Associate Artist. Claire's video and performance projects are choreographed to emphasise the personal, subjective sphere of human life. Her work often responds unconventionally to particular environments or social contexts; disrupting and subverting our associations with them by combining narratives ranging from the surreal, strange and unsettling to the humorous, playful and emotive. Video work has drawn from existing, improvised and written speech with non-linear narratives often mapped to the filmed space. Recently Claire has developed original scripts for video projects conceived as highly orchestrated linear journeys. Claire is interested in social, political and economic systems and how these may represent human beliefs, motivations and actions. She links the private sphere of perception to the public realm of interaction and its formal or informal contexts in work often set in individual locations. The way power and desire are experienced or expressed through such relationships is a central theme, also how this relates to the urge to present and the expectations of viewers. In her work Claire combines information from different – often segregated or professionalized - areas of knowledge. She creates fictional relationships which hope to exist across these apparently disparate contexts - blurring the boundaries of a perceived reality and fiction and deliberately implicating the maker and viewer in this choreography. 'In all honesty there's nothing I'd like more' of 2005 combines a shifting monologue of official pronouncements, emotive reactions, personal statements and musical performance in a choreographed journey around an unconventional landscaped public space. In 'Your task will fail to be realised (I'll do what I can)' 2005, a performative journey around a lavish corporate waiting area portrays an anarchic and illogical array of characterisations amid an ambiguous relationship with the cameraman. In 'Virgin Soil' of 2007 a subjective arrangement of video and still footage of the built environment (later used in 2008) is combined with a non-narrative soundtrack. 'Shredder Heaven' 2008, combines an apparently passionate private performance with a repetitive administrative task. 'Complex Financial Instruments' of 2008 joins still and video imagery of the built environment in different states of development, to recorded and live private decision-making around a future building of ambitious landmark proportions. Exhibited at as an event-based installation the discussion became increasingly absurd amid growing references to shared mythic belief systems. Works of interest; by Adam Chodzko and Stuart Croft, have been selected for their differing approaches to narrative representation, especially within a relationship to our environment, social or institutional forms of individual or collective action and to subverting familiar forms of depiction. Very special thanks to Adam and Stuart for showing their work. *www.tank.tv* -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - Alice O'Reilly tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA alice at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Claire Hope 15th - 31st January 2009 'Fresh Moves' - Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From sebastian at rolux.org Fri Jan 16 22:21:28 2009 From: sebastian at rolux.org (Pirate Cinema Bombay) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:21:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sun, Jan 18, 7 pm: The City Is Big, The Image Is Small Message-ID: Pirate Cinema Bombay The City Is Big, The Image is Small Sunday, January 18 7 pm - 10 pm www.piratecinema.org Los Angeles Plays Itself Thom Andersen USA 2003 169 mins, 1.4 GB www.0xdb.org/0379357 CAMP Rooftop 301 Alif Apartments 34A Chuim Village Khar West www.camputer.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the city: Los Angeles, California. They make movies here. I live here. Sometimes I think that gives me the right to criticize the way movies depict my city. I know it's not easy. The city is big. The image is small. Movies are vertical. At least when they're projected on a screen. The city is horizontal, except for what we call downtown. Maybe that's why the movies love downtown more than we do. If it isn't the site of the action, they try to stick its high- rise towers in the back of the shot. But movies have some advantages over us. They can fly through the air. We must travel by land. They exist in space. We live and die in time. So why should I be generous? Of course, I know movies aren't about places, they're about stories. If we notice the location, we are not really watching the movie. It's what's up front that counts. Movies bury their traces, choosing for us what to watch, then moving on to something else. They do the work of our voluntary attention, and so we must suppress that faculty as we watch. Our involuntary attention must come to the fore. But what if we watch with our voluntary attention, instead of letting the movies direct us? If we can appreciate documentaries for their dramatic qualities, perhaps we can appreciate fiction films for their documentary revelations. And what if suspense is just another alienation effect. Isn't that what Hitchcock taught? For him, suspense was a means of enlivening his touristy travelogues. Then maybe I can find another way to animate this city symphony in reverse. Maybe this effort to see how movies depict Los Angeles may seem more than wrong-headed or mean-spirited. Full script: http://newfilmkritik.de/archiv/2005-03/los-angeles-plays-itself/ List of references: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379357/movieconnections Review by Jonathan Rosenbaum: http://www.chicagoreader.com/movies/archives/2004/1004/041001.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- () >< pirate cinema bombay sundays from 7 to 10 www.piratecinema.org From zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com Mon Jan 19 11:27:44 2009 From: zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com (Zain Rahimtula) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:27:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 20TH JAN. :PROTEST AGAINST ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901181852j16b1bad3wfc7168d21350a6c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901181852j16b1bad3wfc7168d21350a6c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <716837190901182157i1435ec12rfff29d0cefefb9c9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Indersalim, is anyone you know thinking of organising a boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on that.. www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment, sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's relationship with israel, Zain On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:22 AM, indersalim wrote: > PROTEST AGAINST ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS > > On > > Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 2.00 pm onward > > At > > Mandi House, Safdar Hashmi Road, New Delhi > > > > The theocratic Israeli State has been known for its barbarism > since its inception in 1948. Despite hundreds of UNO resolutions and > constant condemnation by the civilized world, Israel has continued to > massacre innocent Palestinians over the years. There is no denying > that Israeli terrorism continues unabated due to the support of USA, > its lackeys and armament lobby. The latest aggression on Gaza has > crossed all limits with women and children being the majority of the > casualties. > > > > Writers, journalists, teachers, cultural activists, artists, > lawyers, students, Dalit and women activists of Delhi will gather at > Safdar Hashmi Road, Mandi House (Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 2.00 pm > onward) to paint, recite poetry, sing songs, perform street theatre > against Israeli barbarism unleashed on Palestinians. All are cordially > invited. > > > > Dalit Lekhak Sangh (M-9899700767), > > Forum for Democratic Struggle, Delhi University (01127667209), > > International Association of People's Lawyers (Delhi Chapter, > M-9210421050 & 9891045573) > > Jan Sanskriti Manch (M-9818755922), > > Janvadi Lekhak Sangh (M-9811119391), > > Justice Movement of India (011-25105732) > > Milli Gazette (M-9811142151), > > New Socialist Initiative (01127876523), > > Nishant Natya Manch (M-9968007740), > > Pragateesheel Lekhak Sangh (M-9810598859), > > Revolutionary Democracy (M-9868576567), > > Sahmat (011-2371 1276) > > Samajwadi Shikshak Manch (011-22371220), > > UNI Workers Union (M-9868418273), > > Yuva Bharat (M-9868456745). > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 18:54:50 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:24:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <184565.65358.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir   Having aligned Pakistan with USA in the 'war against terror', Musharraf could ill-afford the publicly blatant calls for raising money for "Jihad" that were rampant all over Pakistan. "Jihad" and "Jihadist" could not be allowed to be the public face of Pakistan. They had to be managed/controlled for effective use.   It would be ridiculous to suggest that the 2002 'ban' seriously dented or completely sent 'underground' the raising of money for Jihad. Igf nothing else Mosques with "Jihadi pulpits" and Madrassas with "Jihadi agendas" (including the 'donation boxes' on their premises) have automatically been fund raising places for "Jihad"     As some have commentated, Musharraf and 'establishment' (read ISI) sought to bring about a distinction between "Good Jihadis" (those who were to wage Jihad against India) and the "Bad Jihadis" (who want Talibisation of Pakistan). Then there are also the "we dont really know how to deal with them Jihadis" who are sworn enemies of USA and India but could live with a Non-Talibanised Pakistan. In my opinion, this category forms the largest group and also reflects the thinking of the majority of Pakistanis.    Squeeze on the (never can be eliminated) funding of the "Bad Jihadis" did not stop the Pakistani Establishment from turning a convienient blind eye to the raising of funds by the "Good Jihadis" or their operating quite openly all over Pakistan. They did so not with impunity but with the blessings of the Pakistani Establishment.   Your statement "cleaned-up in 2002 ..... anything since then is underground and not tolerated" is a non-fact.   A few reports. All post 2002:   1.  http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC11Df07.html  In "The jihad lives on" (March 2005), Amir Mir writes: "The Lashkar leadership describes Hindus and Jews as the main enemies of Islam, claiming India and Israel to be the main enemies of Pakistan. The donation boxes of the Lashkar and the Dawa, which had initially disappeared after the January 2002 ban, have reappeared in public places, as well as mosques all over Punjab."     " While banning six leading jihadi and sectarian groups in two phases - on January 12, 2002, and November 15, 2003 - Musharraf had declared that no organization or person would be allowed to indulge in terrorism to further its cause. However, after the initial crackdown, the four major jihadi outfits operating from Pakistan - Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM), Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM) and Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM), resurfaced and regrouped effectively to run their respective networks as openly as before, though under different names."   "Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, Maulana Masood Azhar, Maulana Fazalur Rehman Khalil and Syed Salahuddin - the respective leaders of these organizations - are again on the loose. The pattern of treatment being meted out to these leading lights of jihad by the Musharraf-led administration shows that they are being kept on the leash, ostensibly to wage a controlled jihad in Jammu & Kashmir (J&K)." 2. http://www.dawn.com/2003/02/06/nat34.htm In the report "Jihad only solution to occupation" (Feb 2003): "Despite official ban the JI and Hizbul Mujahideen had set up donation camp at Khyber Bazaar and distributed pamphlets, carrying Jihadi messages." 3. http://www.dawn.com/2006/11/06/top7.htm Some relevant extracts from this report (Nov 2006): "A Shura (council) of militant groups in the North and South Waziristan ......appoint a committee to collect donations to finance Mujahideen’s activities."   " “Nobody will be allowed to collect donations and the amount collected as donation will be utilised for bearing expenses of the activities of Mujahideen,” according to one pamphlet." 4. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/14/top9.htm Not much is left to imagination in the slogan quoted in this Dec 2008 report on the collection of the hides of animals sacrificed at the time of Eid ul Adha: " “QURBANI ki khalain un ke liye ... gin ka lahu Islam ke liye” (Hides of sacrificial animals for those who dedicate/shed their blood for Islam). So says a bold inscription on a big plastic bag meant for stuffing and carrying such hides."   Kshmendra   --- On Mon, 1/19/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan To: "sarai list" Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 3:00 PM On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of Pakistan. Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were cleaned up by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and not tolerated. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 19:09:56 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:39:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <906179.53618.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yasir, As you may know JUD is the new avatar of LET.Please look at this recent news item. http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-india-crisis/19486-s-business-usual-jud-despite-ban.html Thanks Rahul --- On Mon, 1/19/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 3:00 PM > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major > cities of Pakistan. > > Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp > training' were cleaned up > by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is > underground and not > tolerated. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 19:25:10 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:55:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <906179.53618.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <425857.58795.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> For archival reference. SOURCE:   http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=156542     --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: From: Rahul Asthana Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan To: "sarai list" , "yasir ~يا سر" Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 7:09 PM Yasir, As you may know JUD is the new avatar of LET.Please look at this recent news item. http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-india-crisis/19486-s-business-usual-jud-despite-ban.html Thanks Rahul --- On Mon, 1/19/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 3:00 PM > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major > cities of Pakistan. > > Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp > training' were cleaned up > by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is > underground and not > tolerated. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 20:14:59 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 06:44:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "The Saudi-isation of Pakistan" by Pervez Hoodbhoy (NEWSLINE - Jan '09) Message-ID: <189802.1514.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> It might do some good to the likes of Arundhati Roy 'Blowback'  and the Indian apologists (on this List) for 'Islamic Terror' and 'Terrorists from Pakistan' to think about the following words of Hoodbhoy (although he mentions it only in the context of 'social conservatism' because of the 'Saudi-isation of Pakistan): """" The socially conservative are more easily convinced that Muslims are being demonised by the rest of the world. The real problem, they say, is the plight of the Palestinians, the decadent and discriminatory West, the Jews, the Christians, the Hindus, the Kashmir issue, the Bush doctrine – the list runs on. They vehemently deny that those committing terrorist acts are Muslims, and if presented with incontrovertible evidence, say it is a mere reaction to oppression. """""" Kshmendra     NEWSLINE Jan '09 "The Saudi-isation of Pakistan" By Pervez Hoodbhoy   The common belief in Pakistan is that Islamic radicalism is a problem only in FATA, and that madrassas are the only institutions serving as jihad factories. This is a serious misconception. Extremism is breeding at a ferocious rate in public and private schools within Pakistan’s towns and cities. Left unchallenged, this education will produce a generation incapable of co-existing with anyone except strictly their own kind. The mindset it creates may eventually lead to Pakistan’s demise as a nation state.            For 20 years or more, a few of us have been desperately sending out SOS messages, warning of terrible times to come. In fact, I am surprised at how rapidly these dire predictions have come true.             A full-scale war is being fought in FATA, Swat and other “wild” areas of Pakistan, resulting in thousands of deaths. It is only a matter of time before this fighting shifts to Peshawar and Islamabad (which has already been a witness to the Lal Masjid episode) and engulfs Lahore and Karachi as well. The suicide bomber and the masked abductor have crippled Pakistan’s urban life and shattered its national economy.           Soldiers, policemen, factory and hospital workers, mourners at funerals and ordinary people praying in mosques have all been reduced to globs of flesh and fragments of bones. But, perhaps paradoxically, in spite of the fact that the dead bodies and shattered lives are almost all Muslim ones, few Pakistanis speak out against these atrocities. Nor do they approve of the army operation against the cruel perpetrators of these acts because they believe that they are Islamic warriors fighting for Islam and against American occupation. Political leaders like Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan have no words of solace for those who have suffered at the hands of Islamic extremists. Their tears are reserved exclusively for the victims of Predator drones, even if they are those who committed grave crimes against their own people. Terrorism, by definition, is an act only the Americans can commit.              What explains Pakistan’s collective masochism? To understand this, one needs to study the drastic social and cultural transformations that have rendered this country so completely different from what it was in earlier times.            For three decades, deep tectonic forces have been silently tearing Pakistan away from the Indian subcontinent and driving it towards the Arabian peninsula. This continental drift is not physical but cultural, driven by a belief that Pakistan must exchange its South Asian identity for an Arab-Muslim one. Grain by grain, the desert sands of Saudi Arabia are replacing the rich soil that had nurtured a magnificent Muslim culture in India for a thousand years. This culture produced Mughul architecture, the Taj Mahal, the poetry of Asadullah Khan Ghalib, and much more. Now a stern, unyielding version of Islam (Wahhabism) is replacing the kinder, gentler Islam of the Sufis and saints who had walked on this land for hundreds of years.             This change is by design. Twenty-five years ago, the Pakistani state used Islam as an instrument of state policy. Prayers in government departments were deemed compulsory, floggings were carried out publicly, punishments were meted out to those who did not fast in Ramadan, selection for academic posts in universities required that the candidate demonstrate a knowledge of Islamic teachings and jihad was declared essential for every Muslim. Today, government intervention is no longer needed because of a spontaneous groundswell of Islamic zeal. The notion of an Islamic state – still in an amorphous and diffused form – is more popular now than ever before as people look desperately for miracles to rescue a failing state.             Villages have changed drastically; this transformation has been driven, in part, by Pakistani workers returning from Arab countries. Many village mosques are now giant madrassas that propagate hard-line Salafi and Deobandi beliefs through oversized loudspeakers. They are bitterly opposed to Barelvis, Shias and other sects, who they do not regard as Muslims. The Punjabis, who were far more liberal towards women than the Pukhtuns, are now beginning to take a line resembling that of the Taliban. Hanafi law has begun to prevail over tradition and civil law, as is evident from the recent decisions of the Lahore High Court.              In Pakistan’s lower-middle and middle classes lurks a grim and humourless Saudi-inspired revivalist movement that frowns on any and every expression of joy and pleasure. Lacking any positive connection to culture and knowledge, it seeks to eliminate “corruption” by regulating cultural life and seizing control of the education system.              “Classical music is on its last legs in Pakistan; the sarangi and vichitraveena are completely dead,” laments Mohammad Shehzad, a music aficionado. Indeed, teaching music in public universities is violently opposed by students of the Islami Jamaat-e-Talaba at Punjab University. So the university has been forced to hold its music classes elsewhere. Religious fundamentalists consider music haram or un-Islamic. Kathak dancing, once popular with the Muslim elite of India, has few teachers left. Pakistan produces no feature films of any consequence. Nevertheless, the Pakistani elite, disconnected from the rest of the population, live their lives in comfort through their vicarious proximity to the West. Alcoholism is a chronic problem of the super rich of Lahore – a curious irony for this deeply religious country.             Islamisation of the state and the polity was supposed to have been in the interest of the ruling class – a classic strategy for preserving it from the wrath of the working class. But the amazing success of the state is turning out to be its own undoing. Today, it is under attack from religious militants, and rival Islamic groups battle each other with heavy weapons. Ironically, the same army – whose men were recruited under the banner of jihad, and which saw itself as the fighting arm of Islam – today stands accused of betrayal and is almost daily targeted by Islamist suicide bombers.             Pakistan’s self-inflicted suffering comes from an education system that, like Saudi Arabia’s system, provides an ideological foundation for violence and future jihadists. It demands that Islam be understood as a complete code of life, and creates in the mind of a school-going child a sense of siege and embattlement by stressing that Islam is under threat everywhere.             On the previous page, the reader can view the government-approved curriculum. This is the basic road map for transmitting values and knowledge to the young. By an act of parliament passed in 1976, all government and private schools (except for O-level schools) are required to follow this curriculum. It was prepared by the curriculum wing of the federal ministry of education, government of Pakistan. It sounds like a blueprint for a religious fascist state.             Alongside are scanned pictures from an illustrated primer for the Urdu alphabet. The masthead states that it has been prepared by Iqra Publishers, Rawalpindi, along “Islamic lines.” Although not an officially approved textbook, it is being used currently by some regular schools, as well as madrassas associated with the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI), an Islamic political party that had allied itself with General Musharraf. These picture scans have been taken from a child’s book, hence the scribbles.             The world of the Pakistani schoolchild remained largely unchanged, even after September 11, 2001, the event that led to Pakistan’s timely desertion of the Taliban and the slackening of the Kashmir jihad. Indeed, for all his hypocritical talk of “enlightened moderation,” General Musharraf’s educational curriculum was far from enlightening. It was a slightly toned down version of the curriculum that existed under Nawaz Sharif which, in turn, was identical to that under Benazir Bhutto who had inherited it from General Zia-ul-Haq. Fearful of taking on the powerful religious forces, every incumbent government has refused to take a position on the curriculum and thus quietly allowed young minds to be moulded by fanatics. What may happen a generation later has always been a secondary issue for a government challenged on so many fronts.             The promotion of militarism in Pakistan’s so-called “secular” public schools, colleges and universities had a profound effect upon young minds. Militant jihad became part of the culture on college and university campuses. Armed groups flourished, they invited students for jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan, set up offices throughout the country, collected funds at Friday prayers and declared a war which knew no borders. Pre-9/11, my university was ablaze with posters inviting students to participate in the Kashmir jihad. Post-2001, this ceased to be done openly.             Still, the primary vehicle for Saudi-ising Pakistan’s education has been the madrassa. In earlier times, these had turned out the occasional Islamic scholar, using a curriculum that essentially dates back to the 11th century, with only minor subsequent revisions. But their principal function had been to produce imams and muezzins for mosques, and those who eked out an existence as ‘maulvi sahibs’ teaching children to read the Quran.             The Afghan jihad changed everything. During the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, madrassas provided the US-Saudi-Pakistani alliance the cannon fodder they needed to fight a holy war. The Americans and Saudis, helped by a more-than-willing General Zia, funded new madrassas across the length and breadth of Pakistan. A detailed picture of the current situation is not available. But according to the national education census, which the ministry of education released in 2006, Punjab has 5,459 madrassas followed by the NWFP with 2,843; Sindh has 1,935; the Federally Administrated Northern Areas (FANA), 1,193; Balochistan, 769; Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK), 586; the Federally Administrated Tribal Areas (FATA), 135; and the Islamabad capital territory, 77. The ministry estimates that 1.5 million students are acquiring religious education in the 13,000 madrassas.             These figures appear to be way off the mark. Commonly quoted figures range between 18,000 and 22,000 madrassas. The number of students could be correspondingly larger. The free boarding and lodging plus provision of books to the students, is a key part of their appeal. Additionally, parents across the country desire that their children be “disciplined” and given a thorough Islamic education. The madrassas serve this purpose, too, exceedingly well.             Madrassas have deeply impacted the urban environment. Until a few years ago, Islamabad was a quiet, orderly, modern city different from the rest of Pakistan. Also, it had largely been the abode of Pakistan’s elite and foreign diplomats. But the rapid transformation of its demography brought with it hundreds of mosques with multi-barrelled audio-cannons mounted on minarets, as well as scores of madrassas illegally constructed in what used to be public parks and green areas. Now, tens of thousands of their students, sporting little prayer caps, dutifully chant the Quran all day. In the evenings they swarm the city, making women minus the hijab increasingly nervous.             Total segregation of the sexes is a central goal of the Islamists, the consequences of which have been catastrophic. For example, on April 9, 2006, 21 women and eight children were crushed to death and scores injured in a stampede inside a three-storey madrassa in Karachi, where a large number of women were attending a weekly congregation. Male rescuers, who arrived in ambulances, were prevented from moving the injured women to hospitals.             One cannot dismiss this incident as being just one of a kind. In fact, soon after the October 2005 earthquake, as I walked through the destroyed city of Balakot, a student of the Frontier Medical College described to me how he and his male colleagues were stopped by religious elders from digging out injured girl students from under the rubble of their school building. This action was similar to that of Saudi Arabia’s ubiquitous religious ‘mutaween’ (police) who, in March 2002, had stopped school girls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing their abayas – a long robe worn in Saudi Arabia. In a rare departure from the norm, Saudi newspapers had blamed and criticised the mutaween for letting 15 girls burn to death.             The Saudi-isation of a once-vibrant Pakistani culture continues at a relentless pace. The drive to segregate is now also being found among educated women. Vigorous proselytisers carrying this message, such as Mrs Farhat Hashmi, have been catapulted to the heights of fame and fortune. Their success is evident. Two decades back, the fully veiled student was a rarity on Pakistani university and college campuses. The abaya was an unknown word in Urdu. Today, some shops across the country specialise in abayas. At colleges and universities across Pakistan, the female student is seeking the anonymity of the burqa. And in some parts of the country she seems to outnumber her sisters who still “dare” to show their faces.             I have observed the veil profoundly affect habits and attitudes. Many of my veiled female students have largely become silent note-takers, are increasingly timid and seem less inclined to ask questions or take part in discussions. They lack the confidence of a young university student.             While social conservatism does not necessarily lead to violent extremism, it does shorten the distance. The socially conservative are more easily convinced that Muslims are being demonised by the rest of the world. The real problem, they say, is the plight of the Palestinians, the decadent and discriminatory West, the Jews, the Christians, the Hindus, the Kashmir issue, the Bush doctrine – the list runs on. They vehemently deny that those committing terrorist acts are Muslims, and if presented with incontrovertible evidence, say it is a mere reaction to oppression.             The immediate future does not appear hopeful: increasing numbers of mullahs are creating cults around themselves and seizing control of the minds of worshippers. In the tribal areas, a string of new Islamist leaders have suddenly emerged: Baitullah Mehsud, Maulana Fazlullah and Mangal Bagh. Poverty, deprivation, lack of justice and extreme differences of wealth provide the perfect environment for these demagogues to recruit people to their cause. Their gruesome acts of terror are still being perceived by large numbers of Pakistanis merely as a war against imperialist America. This could not be further from the truth.             In the long term, we will have to see how the larger political battle works out between those Pakistanis who want an Islamic theocratic state and those who want a modern Islamic republic. It may yet be possible to roll back those Islamist laws and institutions that have corroded Pakistani society for over 30 years and to defeat its hate-driven holy warriors. There is no chance of instant success; perhaps things may have to get worse before they get better. But, in the long term, I am convinced that the forces of irrationality will cancel themselves out because they act at random whereas reason pulls only in one direction. History leads us to believe that reason will triumph over unreason, and the evolution of the humans into a higher and better species will continue. Using ways that we cannot currently anticipate, they will somehow overcome their primal impulses of territoriality, tribalism, religiosity and nationalism. But, for now, this must be just a matter of faith.             The author teaches physics at Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad.   http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJan2009/cover2jan2009.htm       From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 20:48:10 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:48:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 19 years to the 19th day of 1990: Exodus of Kashmiri Pandits In-Reply-To: <6353c690901190717r67482f86tae3fc9db26b82908@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690901182316i4638ff14j909797936b9b2fc4@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901182323m2511dbebo997036f180445c0a@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190713w334be5a9pc9a7a46cc3a063cd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190714ye3577av5c988d53d3ad5e7b@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190714j334381as460842a69dc6b53a@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190714h35a3ee32j61e0cf5a1d56a7a8@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190715k7ff34db1qfc548fc3fe29a6a9@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190716g3e79a81ct94a4af230fd1663a@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190717h5280d47di966c0c0472b553fd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690901190717r67482f86tae3fc9db26b82908@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690901190718v6764a40cr30ecb6c916b85144@mail.gmail.com> 19 years to the 19th day of 1990: Exodus of Kashmiri Pandits by Aditya Raj Kaul I wake and feel the fell of dark, not day What hours, O what black hours we have spent… - Gerard Manley Hopkins 19th January 1990. Kashmir was breathing still; Kashmiri Pandits lay hidden like frightened pigeons in their own nest. Today on behalf of my fellow brothers and sisters, I wish to revisit the pain of my separation from my own home 19 years ago, when the cruel hands of Allah-Wallahs butchered members of my community for being idol worshipers, for rejecting the call for unholy Jihad and for siding with their own nation India. The Islamic murderers played dire warnings from their Mosques which pierced each nerve of anybody who held a Hindu name. As the sun turned pale, exhortations became louder, and three taped slogans repeatedly played their terror: 'Kashmir mei agar rehna hai, Allah-O-Akbar kehna hai' (If you want to stay in Kashmir, you have to say Allah is great); 'Yahan kya chalega, Nizam-e-Mustafa' (What do we want here? Rule of Shariah); 'Asi gachchi Pakistan, Batao roas te Batanev san' (We want Pakistan along with Hindu women but without their men). The roots of this unparalleled tragedy are immersed in 1986 with a well-planned strategy to execute Hindus from the valley. By 1990, the population saw their age old temples turned to ruins and lives at risk. As Pakistan stepped up their campaign against India, new Islamic terror outfits suddenly mushroomed in the state. As Jamait-e-Islami financed all madarsas to poison them against the minority Hindus and India, Pakistan further dictated youth to launch Jihad against India. A terror strike so meticulously planned that its unprecedented display was terrifying. As camps in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) began to provide training to innumerable Muslim men, India witnessed the emergence of the bloodiest Kalashnikov culture in the valley. The victims- innocent and non-violent minority- the Kashmiri Pandits. The Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah, abandoned his responsibilities and the administration, the state and people lay like cattle on an open road. The hidden fact of rigged elections in 1987 had by then become a lucid statement. Today 22 years later, Omar Abdullah takes position of the same majestic throne, though I wonder how efficiently he would carry forward the state of affairs. Will he like his father ruin the backbone of the state and leave the minority Hindus helpless as always, or will he rise above politics, religion to create space for Pandits in their valley? The unanswered question lingers on. read more on - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2009/01/19-years-to-19th-day-of-1990-exodus-of.html Comments on the blog are welcome! Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 19 20:54:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:24:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> References: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901190724v67be8cb2r2f60bf11aa214e91@mail.gmail.com> Dear Yasir (Dear All ) Thank you for pointing out the role of wall chalkings in mobilization of people for 'jehad'. I think chalkings or writings on the wall are an important indicator of the socio-political mood of a space. In this regard, I want to stretch this idea of chalk writing as a form of mass communication, to posters, wall posters and how they are able to hold a muted conversation with a multitude. For instance, the article pasted below talks about posters as a graphic form of protest. An excerpt- Posters have a distinguished history as vehicles of protest, propaganda and commerce, from 15th-century broadsheets supporting the Protestant Reformation to 19th-century theater billboards by Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. In the 20th century, politics and art merged in powerful propaganda posters in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. The American counterculture of the late 1960s inspired a renaissance of protest posters, in psychedelic colors. It would be interesting to know what sort of posters are in vogue in Pakistan today. I would like to believe that almost all of them would have a local flavor but certainly there must be some which relate to broader issues. May I suggest you to please share with us, if you can, your own reflections about how were posters related to Islamic jihad designed or framed.etc Were they similar or different to say posters distributed at sufi shrines, especially in terms of iconography and here I am, of course, specifically referring to Yusuf Saeed's monumental work on posters and syncretic cultures. Regards Taha http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44847-2005Jun4.html Graphic Forms of Protest By Linda Hales Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, June 4, 2005; Page C01 A graphic printed on a T-shirt demands, "Curb Your God." A poster for designer jeans shows one pant leg knotted, as if the wearer were an amputee. The words War Wear have been appended to the brand's label: Rifle. Another poster mimics Apple Computer's colorful advertising campaign for the iPod. Except this one is about "iRaq" and the logo is a bomb, not an apple. The black figure silhouetted against a hot pink background is not dancing to iTunes but is a hooded prisoner from Abu Ghraib, balancing on a box with hands attached to a white cord. These are three of more than 400 provocative, emotionally charged graphics in "The Design of Dissent: Socially and Politically Driven Graphics" (Rockport). The book of posters, buttons, illustrations and other graphics was compiled by Milton Glaser, dean of American graphic designers, with Mirko Ilic, a noted illustrator and art director. An exhibition of 100 designs opened yesterday at New York's School of Visual Arts, where Glaser and Ilic teach. In an age dominated by moving images, these freeze-frame visuals hold their own. They represent the activist strain of graphic design. Like contemporary advertising, it thrives on shock, wit and instant recognition. But as playwright Tony Kushner writes in the book's foreword, there must also be "some galling truth . . . imprisoned beneath the surface of public discourse" that causes a designer to fire a signal flare. Glaser calls the collection an international survey of "nontraditional dissenting opinion." The designer, who is best known for the "I H NY" logo, says that lately he has been focused on the importance of expressing dissent. The essence of his view is captured on a button he designed, which declares "DISSENT *Protects **Democracy*." "Once you say that dissent protects democracy, people get the idea right away," Glaser said by phone this week. "When you have dissenting opinion, it comes out of some idea that fairness or appropriateness has been violated." Work on the book began with a global call for submissions. Glaser and Ilic received more than a thousand richly varied examples. Most of those selected were created after 2000 and address politics, racism, corporate power, pollution, religion, media, animal rights and food. Three sections are devoted to war and strife -- in the former Yugoslavia, in Iraq and between Israel and Palestinians. Concepts of peace and equality get as much space. Images dominate all but 12 of the book's 240 pages. Minimal text includes an interview with Glaser. Ilic is represented by cover art for the alternative magazine World War 3 Illustrated showing a ferocious hound in camouflage fatigues preparing to devour a bone labeled Iraq. The caption does not indicate whether the artist was illustrating a story or drawing his own conclusions. The Bosnian-born New Yorker has described himself as an "individual anarchist" willing to "poke fun at any power, because all of them are corrupt." Emotions run high, whatever the topic, but techniques and symbols run the gamut. The iRaq poster by Copper Greene relies on parody. The T-shirt designer, Daniel Young, needed only typography to express concern that so-called divine directives are sparking violence and intolerance. The jeans were designed by Slovenian artist Tomato Kosir as a commentary on consumerism and war. The Coca-Cola logo appears in many guises. Fingerprints are popular images. So is raw meat. Samantha Hoover, assistant director of communications for the School of Visual Arts, says creative people tend to be liberal. But the book was not intended to be one-sided. Palestinian and Israeli points of view were included, Glaser points out. Communism is skewered. So is President Bush. A design team from Slovenia played off the American Dairy Association's "Got Milk?" campaign for a "Got Oil?" poster on which Bush sports a mustache of oil. The poster shows how astonishingly global advertising has become. Posters have a distinguished history as vehicles of protest, propaganda and commerce, from 15th-century broadsheets supporting the Protestant Reformation to 19th-century theater billboards by Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. In the 20th century, politics and art merged in powerful propaganda posters in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. The American counterculture of the late 1960s inspired a renaissance of protest posters, in psychedelic colors. These days, Hoover senses renewed interest in public affairs. "Since 9/11, with the Iraqi war and all that's happening, twenty- and thirtysomethings are paying attention to current affairs in a different way," she says. Some issues are constant. In 1969, Dan Reisinger conveyed a message about Jewish emigration from the former Soviet Union by using the hammer and sickle as the "G" in "Let My People Go." More than 20 years later, he drew a poster warning of a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe. A recent poster by Turkish designer Bulent Erkmen for an Israeli client sought to address the sharing of power in Jerusalem. The word "equal" is presented as a page from a dictionary. All attempts at definition have been struck through with a red line. Chaz Maviyane-Davies produced gripping posters relating the United Nations Articles on Human Rights to an African audience. For Article 4, a figure wears free-flowing dreadlocks made of chains above the words, "No one should be subjected to slavery or servitude." Malaysian designer Theresa Tsang created three posters that protest the abuse of women. What appears to be the imprint of a lipstick kiss is an amalgam of photos of knuckles, glass shards and men beating women. Design can transform even grim topics. In Serbia, the Thea Line cosmetics company commissioned an antiwar poster using its product. The designer, Igor Avzner, turned lipstick tubes into a cartridge belt, which is worn by a fashion model. The message reads, "Make Up, Not War." On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:30 AM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana >wrote: > > > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of Pakistan. > > Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were cleaned up > by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and not > tolerated. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 19 21:10:02 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:40:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On confusions regarding the term 'pan-Islamic'. In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901161856t72a0da5dw4763d3e19360a8e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901161856t72a0da5dw4763d3e19360a8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha, Coming at a time when the country is yet to get over the shock of the recent 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage that was executed by the Pakistani pan Islamists, your query on the face of it does not really deserve a response. I have said it before on this forum & I repeat pan Islamic terror is not synonymous with Muslim faith nor are Muslim Indians in any way different from other Indians following other faiths – all have equal stakes in this country. Therefore, we must raise our voice against the menace of pan Islamic terrorism as it affects us all. And for the ‘meaning’ you must direct this query to the proponents of pan Islamism- those who believe in ‘Azadi- bara- e- Islam’- those who subjected Kashmiri Hindu Pandits to ethnic cleansing in the name of establishing ‘Nizame Mustafa’ with out Kashmiri Hindu men but along with the Kashmiri Hindu women. What is it that drives a young Birmingham born Bilal of Pakistani origin to come all the way to Srinagar to commit car suicide bombing or what is that motivates Bangluru born space engineer Kafil to blow him self up at the faraway Glasgow airport ????.... Why does a community remain silent when the symbol of Kashmiriyat –Chare Sharif is singed by a Pakistani mercenary Mast Gul in full view of the cheering crowds? And why is it that their co religionists in rest of India do not speak up against the proponents of Azadi bara e Islam who aspire to join the Jinah’s land of the pure. Agreed, Islam is not a homogenous entity. But there is a crude attempt to forge homogeneity & that is where the the problem arises. Common Taha, you know it well what pan Islamism is all about. It is a threat –it exists. Regards LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:56:29 +0000> Subject: On confusions regarding the term 'pan-Islamic'.> From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com> CC: reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Lallit,> > Thank you for posting your comments.> > Could you please elaborate on what you mean by pan Islamic terror?> Because I believe that there is no such thing as pan-islamic. The> reason for this is I think, in so far as my understanding of Islam> goes, Islam is not a homogeneous entity. Hence if it is not a> homogeneous entity then why do you feel it appropriate to use the this> tag?> > Furthermore I would also like to know your thoughts on what do you> mean by Islam? Is it a precise concept? If it is then could you kindly> define it? If it is not then may I ask you to please enlighten us with> your insights regarding the broad limits of this term.> > > Regards> > Taha> > David Miliband's poor taste & judgement were also visible when he shot> his mouth & attributed the scourge of pan Islamic terror that has been> targetting India for the past two decdes to what he thought was> "Kashmir issue".> Would somebody ask him whether the Glassgow Airpor suicide bombing> by the Bangluru born aerospace engineert or> Srinagar 2000 X-mas eve car suicide bombing by the Barmingham born> (Of Pakistani origin ) Bilal & London train bombings or Madrid train> bombings or even 9/11 World Trade Centre bombings were executed> because of his fancied 'Kashmir issue'.> It seems , prior to his departure ,he was briefed by the powerful> Pakistani Mirpuris & other London based anti India pan Islamists.> It was shocking to see in the media our own 'royal PM' in making> hobnobbing with the visiting 'royal fool 'while our foreign affairs> spokesperson wanted the visiting guest keep his mouth shut.> Regards all> LA _________________________________________________________________ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 19 21:28:30 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:58:30 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] New Year message from Dr Binayak Sen In-Reply-To: <98f331e00901161409i3033b24m22a059561c32e65c@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901161409i3033b24m22a059561c32e65c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey, what about the ethnic cleansing & the displacement of an entire Kashmiri Hindu Pandit Community from their homeland? Sencere wishes to Dr Binayak Sen. It is ironic that those who self admittedly ferried weapons from Pakistan to indulge in mayme & wage a war against India are free - are even being chauffeured around by some on this forum ........'hope justice is done in his case. Regards all LA----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:39:53 +0530> From: pkray11 at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] New Year message from Dr Binayak Sen> > Dear all,> > This is New Year message from Dr Binayak Sen> > Prakash> > This New Years' message was hand-written in jail by Dr Binayak Sen for> the MFC and JSS groups. Ilina Sen (who transcribed and emailed) has> given permission for it to be forwarded to us as well.> > Mary Ganguli> > ---------------------------------------------> Date: Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:32 AM> Subject: mfc> > > My warmest greetings to all friends in the MFC, and best wishes for> 2009.> > As an Indian child of parents from the territory that is now> Bangladesh, displacement was a lived reality for me from my> childhood, as it was for millions of other children of my generation.> But then, in so many ways, the history of the last 500 years (1492 is> a useful reference date), is the history of successive waves of> displacement- either as displacement from as in the case of the native> Americans, or displacement to, as in the case of slave labour from> Africa or India. A particularly gruesome episode is being played out> before our eyes in Palestine. The NBA brought the issue of> displacement into the mainstream of Indian public discourse. In> Chhattisgarh, seasonal migration provides an example of large scale> displacement, and a particularly iconic experience was watching a> young migrant mother lying on the floor of a train while her baby> slowly dehydrated from gastroenteritis. The Salwa Judum in Bastar> has displaced huge numbers of people at gunpoint, and over 100,000> people have been pushed over the border into Andhra Pradesh.> > In China today, 100 million people are in the process of being> displaced by the Three gorges dam and other projects. As usual, in> India, we go one better.The redoubtable Prof Swaminathan has chaired a> committee that has concluded that Indian agriculture can accommodate> at most a third of its population in agriculture, as opposed to half> as at present.. The difference is a small matter of 200 million> people.> > Displacement is about the sequestration of privileged access to> resources and need not always involve a geographical reference. Thus,> the chronic nutritional deprivation from which half our children and> a third of our adults suffer can be regarded as a special form of> displacement. What displacement invariably does entail is the> ruthless cutting short of the micro evolutionary process involved in> any instance of eco adaptation, involving chemical or physical> factors as in Bhopal, or the social environment as in south Bastar.> > That's enough. Too bad I can't take part. All the best for your> deliberations.. Choose your politics before your politics chooses> you.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 22:38:53 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:38:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Documentary on the Struggle of the Fishing Community Message-ID: <3457ce860901190908w31b7976fy280593923cf47571@mail.gmail.com> Dear friends, We are glad to inform you that a documentary on the present issues and struggles of the fishing community is being selected by the Karnataka International Film Festival. The documentary about attempts being made to commercialize India's already-degraded coasts and policy reforms that threaten the lives of fisherfolk and also our fragile marine and coastal ecosystems. The film `Resisting Coastal Invasion' is being screened at Vision Theatre, Double Road, Bangalore on January 21, 2009 at 2pm. Kindly inform your friends in Bangalore and support the present struggle of the fishing community against the proposed dangerous notification called Coastal Management Zone Notification. Details of the film is given below: In solidarity, T. Peter President, KSMTF : http://www.keralafishworkers.org Secretary, NFF Resisting Coastal Invasion 52 Minutes Directed by K.P. Sasi More than 250 million people inhabit India's coastline. Among them are the fishing communities, directly dependent for a living on marine and coastal natural resources. Today, both coastal ecosystems as well as the customary rights of fishing communities over coastal areas are severely eroded by developmental activities and market interests - tourism, industrialization, sand mining, infrastructure-building, aquaculture and rapid urbanization. The only piece of legislation ever enacted to regulate developmental activities along the Indian coast was the Coastal Regulation Zone (CRZ) Notification of 1991. Not surprisingly, in today's age of globalization, the CRZ Notification is increasingly being regarded as an impediment to free market. Moves are afoot to dispense with it altogether. What are the implications of such a deregulation agenda? Who benefits? Who loses? Who's accountable? Who is to blame? Resisting the Coastal Invasion is a 52 minute documentary explores these questions. It captures the struggles of fishing communities who are fighting tooth and nail against the takeover of their lands by the forces of globalization From difusion at medialab-prado.es Mon Jan 19 22:43:38 2009 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:13:38 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Reminder: Call for Projects> INTERACTIVOS? Lima'09: Magic and Technology Message-ID: <4974B4C2.8000600@medialab-prado.es> :: Please spread this call - thanks! :: _* Call for Projects*_ *INTERACTIVOS? Lima'09: Magic and Technology* *International Project Development Workshop *Deadline for entries: February 15, 2009 Call for collaborators: March 6, 2009 Medialab-Prado and the Cultural Center of Spain in Lima (Peru) issue a call for the presentation of projects to be developed within the INTERACTIVOS?' Lima'09: Magic and Technology workshop, to be carried out in Lima from *April 13 through 28, 2009*. The aim is the selection of a maximum of 8 proposals for the development of software pieces and interactive installations that propose a rethinking of the usual scenario in magic tricks. The workshop proposes to explore the use of open hardware and software tools in a collective and interdisciplinary manner in order to create technological prototypes with success in the Media from different perspectives: playful, creative and critical. The call is aimed at artists, magicians, engineers, musicians, programmers, designers, architects, hackers, psychologists, etc. Contact: interactivos (at) medialab-prado.es More information: http://medialab-prado.es/article/interactivos_lima08_magia_y_tecnologia Organizers: Cultural Center of Spain in Lima (AECID) and Medialab-Prado (Madrid City Council) http://medialab-prado.es/ http://www.ccelima.org/ From shahzulf at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 23:41:27 2009 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:11:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Long March & Campaign Planned for Amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act Message-ID: <73844.19824.qm@web38806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Long March & Campaign Planned for Amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act   South Asia Partnership has planned a campaign for the amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act 1950. The campaign will be consisting on rallies in district headquarters, meetings with MPAs of Sindh Assembly and Sindh Peasants Long March from Hyderabad to Karachi .   The Long March will be jointly organized by South Asia Partnership Pakistan and Sindh Agrarian Reforms Committee, starting from the grave of peasant leader Comrade Haider Bux Jatoi in Hyderabad on Feb 15 and ending at the Sindh Assembly building in Karachi on Feb 26, to press the government for amending the Tenancy Act.   Before the  carrying  the long march, rallies  and demo processions will be held  at  districts headquarters  and towns in  favor of amendments in tenancy act and long  march beginning  on January 18 in Tando Jam , 19 in Tando Allahyar, 20 inTando Muhammad Khan, 21 in Badin , 22 in  Thatta, 23 in Mirpurkhas, 24 in Umerkot, 25 in  Matyari, 26 in Hala, 27 in Snghar , 28 in Khipro, 29 in Nawabshah, 30 in Noshahroferoz , 31 in Khairpur, February 01 in Sukkur , 02 in Ghotki, 03 inJecobabad, 04 in Shikarpur, 05 in Larkana, 06 in Qmabar Shahdadkot, 07 in Dadu and February 08 in Mithi district.   This movement is supported by various civil society organizations, trade unions and political parties as well as the World Sindhi Congress and the World Sindhi Institute. The memorandum would also be presented to Pakistani ambassadors in the UK and Canada , he said.     The lobbying meetings with MPAs of Sindh Assembly are planned and underway from January 15, 2008.   Zulfiqar Shah Provincial Coordinator, Sindh South Asia Partnership Pakistan ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! New Email addresses available on Yahoo! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 00:53:47 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:53:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "The Saudi-isation of Pakistan" by Pervez Hoodbhoy (NEWSLINE - Jan '09) In-Reply-To: <189802.1514.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <189802.1514.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901191123p53945c70nde2b2983e3b6e9e9@mail.gmail.com> Dear All In a significant development, 19 hardcore militants, including three Lashker-e-Toiba (LeT) men, surrendered to security forces over the past 24 hours in Surankote and Baramulla regions of Jammu and Kashmir. the above is today's news. Miliband calls for Pakistan-India dialogue on Kashmir issue that is another news. sometimes, i see history in continuum, more so when it is explicitly presented to us through media or other TV reportage. there are many other ways to enter this maze of production of news and views from reality to print, but, here what interests me is the fact that there is more in the story than what meets the eye. i guess the coincidence is not by chance. The surrender of 19 hardcore militants and visit by British Minister has something to do with the British foreign policy. May be it is cynical to say like that, but i dont trust West's comment with regard to our internal health. They always have an axe to grind. After all the Kashmir crises, which is part of 1947 Partition, was invented by them and they ensure that some conflicts stay unresolved, enabling them to sell weapons to us. Poor we.... Right now, on the list almost all of us agree that the Mumbai terrorists were from Pakistan and were driven by Islamic Jehad on India. But suddenly after many many days a British Minister thinks that it happened because of unresolved Kashmir issue. How come. May anybody ask him if 9/11 also happened because of Palestine and other related unresolved issues. And if tomorrow there is some blast in London, will it be safer to say that it happened because of their defective Iraq policy. But anyway, we can hate him but we can hardly afford to ignore him. We cant even say he is supporting the separatist agenda in kashmir. We can freely say Azadi-Bare-Isam in Kasshmir and exhaust all the superlatives to define their cruel tactics that forced kashmiri pandit minority to flee from kashmir, but we have really nothing to say against this decent looking boy from UK. Because, we finally look forward to see ourselves where they ( the UK ) are , i mean development wise. I mean that we too want be as sophisticated to deal with the other as they are. This is a typical middle class mentality or say dream of an average Indian or even a Pakistani. Nothing against that, but let us imagine that there is no Islamic Jehad in the world, is then everything alright with the rest of us ? is then this world a heavenly place to live in? Are we really on the right path minus this terrible Jehad ? have we every questioned the reasons how they grew from this gentle earth, even if we forget how US policies in Afganistan created hell for the local population there. Was Kabul always like that ? The white man has been doing something since few centuries back, let us have a careful look and how HE took us for a ride. Is a free India really administered well by a bunch of decent looking bureaucrats/politicians in Delhi. Is Nationality just about how well Army is guarding our boarders against the enemy. Are there more enemies within, than outside ? Is Anil Ambani and Sunil Mittal too intelligent to see a future PM in Modi, is there no trace of a Raju of Satyam in their deep pockets. We have a country which is run by a corrupt judiciary, equally corrupt police, what is the hope. Do we see some pan-Islamic terrorism in some one is who running a fake medicine industry, who gives silent death of millions. Do we have a language that sufficiently describes a mass tree cutter as a terrorist too. or is it just ok We are perhaps happy with Macdonalds at every turn of the road. We dont have to bother about the people who construct Metros and high rise buildings in Gurgaon, but we should worry about our share stocks, and our insurance policies which guarantee our safety of children and families. I, That is how we march ahead. why to think about the faulty structures that are devastating the entire mass of people in India. Alas I dont mean that all of us dont deserve a car, a flat a decent bank balance etc. but is there a new long lasting vision, if yes what it it is ? what is that which we can safely say this is what I really i wanted with love and regards inder salim On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > It might do some good to the likes of Arundhati Roy 'Blowback' and the Indian apologists (on this List) for 'Islamic Terror' and 'Terrorists from Pakistan' to think about the following words of Hoodbhoy (although he mentions it only in the context of 'social conservatism' because of the 'Saudi-isation of Pakistan): > > """" The socially conservative are more easily convinced that Muslims are being demonised by the rest of the world. The real problem, they say, is the plight of the Palestinians, the decadent and discriminatory West, the Jews, the Christians, the Hindus, the Kashmir issue, the Bush doctrine – the list runs on. They vehemently deny that those committing terrorist acts are Muslims, and if presented with incontrovertible evidence, say it is a mere reaction to oppression. """""" > Kshmendra > > > NEWSLINE Jan '09 > "The Saudi-isation of Pakistan" > By Pervez Hoodbhoy > > The common belief in Pakistan is that Islamic radicalism is a problem only in FATA, and that madrassas are the only institutions serving as jihad factories. This is a serious misconception. Extremism is breeding at a ferocious rate in public and private schools within Pakistan's towns and cities. Left unchallenged, this education will produce a generation incapable of co-existing with anyone except strictly their own kind. The mindset it creates may eventually lead to Pakistan's demise as a nation state. > > For 20 years or more, a few of us have been desperately sending out SOS messages, warning of terrible times to come. In fact, I am surprised at how rapidly these dire predictions have come true. > > A full-scale war is being fought in FATA, Swat and other "wild" areas of Pakistan, resulting in thousands of deaths. It is only a matter of time before this fighting shifts to Peshawar and Islamabad (which has already been a witness to the Lal Masjid episode) and engulfs Lahore and Karachi as well. The suicide bomber and the masked abductor have crippled Pakistan's urban life and shattered its national economy. > > Soldiers, policemen, factory and hospital workers, mourners at funerals and ordinary people praying in mosques have all been reduced to globs of flesh and fragments of bones. But, perhaps paradoxically, in spite of the fact that the dead bodies and shattered lives are almost all Muslim ones, few Pakistanis speak out against these atrocities. Nor do they approve of the army operation against the cruel perpetrators of these acts because they believe that they are Islamic warriors fighting for Islam and against American occupation. Political leaders like Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan have no words of solace for those who have suffered at the hands of Islamic extremists. Their tears are reserved exclusively for the victims of Predator drones, even if they are those who committed grave crimes against their own people. Terrorism, by definition, is an act only the Americans can commit. > > What explains Pakistan's collective masochism? To understand this, one needs to study the drastic social and cultural transformations that have rendered this country so completely different from what it was in earlier times. > > For three decades, deep tectonic forces have been silently tearing Pakistan away from the Indian subcontinent and driving it towards the Arabian peninsula. This continental drift is not physical but cultural, driven by a belief that Pakistan must exchange its South Asian identity for an Arab-Muslim one. Grain by grain, the desert sands of Saudi Arabia are replacing the rich soil that had nurtured a magnificent Muslim culture in India for a thousand years. This culture produced Mughul architecture, the Taj Mahal, the poetry of Asadullah Khan Ghalib, and much more. Now a stern, unyielding version of Islam (Wahhabism) is replacing the kinder, gentler Islam of the Sufis and saints who had walked on this land for hundreds of years. > > This change is by design. Twenty-five years ago, the Pakistani state used Islam as an instrument of state policy. Prayers in government departments were deemed compulsory, floggings were carried out publicly, punishments were meted out to those who did not fast in Ramadan, selection for academic posts in universities required that the candidate demonstrate a knowledge of Islamic teachings and jihad was declared essential for every Muslim. Today, government intervention is no longer needed because of a spontaneous groundswell of Islamic zeal. The notion of an Islamic state – still in an amorphous and diffused form – is more popular now than ever before as people look desperately for miracles to rescue a failing state. > > Villages have changed drastically; this transformation has been driven, in part, by Pakistani workers returning from Arab countries. Many village mosques are now giant madrassas that propagate hard-line Salafi and Deobandi beliefs through oversized loudspeakers. They are bitterly opposed to Barelvis, Shias and other sects, who they do not regard as Muslims. The Punjabis, who were far more liberal towards women than the Pukhtuns, are now beginning to take a line resembling that of the Taliban. Hanafi law has begun to prevail over tradition and civil law, as is evident from the recent decisions of the Lahore High Court. > > In Pakistan's lower-middle and middle classes lurks a grim and humourless Saudi-inspired revivalist movement that frowns on any and every expression of joy and pleasure. Lacking any positive connection to culture and knowledge, it seeks to eliminate "corruption" by regulating cultural life and seizing control of the education system. > > "Classical music is on its last legs in Pakistan; the sarangi and vichitraveena are completely dead," laments Mohammad Shehzad, a music aficionado. Indeed, teaching music in public universities is violently opposed by students of the Islami Jamaat-e-Talaba at Punjab University. So the university has been forced to hold its music classes elsewhere. Religious fundamentalists consider music haram or un-Islamic. Kathak dancing, once popular with the Muslim elite of India, has few teachers left. Pakistan produces no feature films of any consequence. Nevertheless, the Pakistani elite, disconnected from the rest of the population, live their lives in comfort through their vicarious proximity to the West. Alcoholism is a chronic problem of the super rich of Lahore – a curious irony for this deeply religious country. > > Islamisation of the state and the polity was supposed to have been in the interest of the ruling class – a classic strategy for preserving it from the wrath of the working class. But the amazing success of the state is turning out to be its own undoing. Today, it is under attack from religious militants, and rival Islamic groups battle each other with heavy weapons. Ironically, the same army – whose men were recruited under the banner of jihad, and which saw itself as the fighting arm of Islam – today stands accused of betrayal and is almost daily targeted by Islamist suicide bombers. > > Pakistan's self-inflicted suffering comes from an education system that, like Saudi Arabia's system, provides an ideological foundation for violence and future jihadists. It demands that Islam be understood as a complete code of life, and creates in the mind of a school-going child a sense of siege and embattlement by stressing that Islam is under threat everywhere. > > On the previous page, the reader can view the government-approved curriculum. This is the basic road map for transmitting values and knowledge to the young. By an act of parliament passed in 1976, all government and private schools (except for O-level schools) are required to follow this curriculum. It was prepared by the curriculum wing of the federal ministry of education, government of Pakistan. It sounds like a blueprint for a religious fascist state. > > Alongside are scanned pictures from an illustrated primer for the Urdu alphabet. The masthead states that it has been prepared by Iqra Publishers, Rawalpindi, along "Islamic lines." Although not an officially approved textbook, it is being used currently by some regular schools, as well as madrassas associated with the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI), an Islamic political party that had allied itself with General Musharraf. These picture scans have been taken from a child's book, hence the scribbles. > > The world of the Pakistani schoolchild remained largely unchanged, even after September 11, 2001, the event that led to Pakistan's timely desertion of the Taliban and the slackening of the Kashmir jihad. Indeed, for all his hypocritical talk of "enlightened moderation," General Musharraf's educational curriculum was far from enlightening. It was a slightly toned down version of the curriculum that existed under Nawaz Sharif which, in turn, was identical to that under Benazir Bhutto who had inherited it from General Zia-ul-Haq. Fearful of taking on the powerful religious forces, every incumbent government has refused to take a position on the curriculum and thus quietly allowed young minds to be moulded by fanatics. What may happen a generation later has always been a secondary issue for a government challenged on so many fronts. > > The promotion of militarism in Pakistan's so-called "secular" public schools, colleges and universities had a profound effect upon young minds. Militant jihad became part of the culture on college and university campuses. Armed groups flourished, they invited students for jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan, set up offices throughout the country, collected funds at Friday prayers and declared a war which knew no borders. Pre-9/11, my university was ablaze with posters inviting students to participate in the Kashmir jihad. Post-2001, this ceased to be done openly. > > Still, the primary vehicle for Saudi-ising Pakistan's education has been the madrassa. In earlier times, these had turned out the occasional Islamic scholar, using a curriculum that essentially dates back to the 11th century, with only minor subsequent revisions. But their principal function had been to produce imams and muezzins for mosques, and those who eked out an existence as 'maulvi sahibs' teaching children to read the Quran. > > The Afghan jihad changed everything. During the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, madrassas provided the US-Saudi-Pakistani alliance the cannon fodder they needed to fight a holy war. The Americans and Saudis, helped by a more-than-willing General Zia, funded new madrassas across the length and breadth of Pakistan. A detailed picture of the current situation is not available. But according to the national education census, which the ministry of education released in 2006, Punjab has 5,459 madrassas followed by the NWFP with 2,843; Sindh has 1,935; the Federally Administrated Northern Areas (FANA), 1,193; Balochistan, 769; Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK), 586; the Federally Administrated Tribal Areas (FATA), 135; and the Islamabad capital territory, 77. The ministry estimates that 1.5 million students are acquiring religious education in the 13,000 madrassas. > > These figures appear to be way off the mark. Commonly quoted figures range between 18,000 and 22,000 madrassas. The number of students could be correspondingly larger. The free boarding and lodging plus provision of books to the students, is a key part of their appeal. Additionally, parents across the country desire that their children be "disciplined" and given a thorough Islamic education. The madrassas serve this purpose, too, exceedingly well. > > Madrassas have deeply impacted the urban environment. Until a few years ago, Islamabad was a quiet, orderly, modern city different from the rest of Pakistan. Also, it had largely been the abode of Pakistan's elite and foreign diplomats. But the rapid transformation of its demography brought with it hundreds of mosques with multi-barrelled audio-cannons mounted on minarets, as well as scores of madrassas illegally constructed in what used to be public parks and green areas. Now, tens of thousands of their students, sporting little prayer caps, dutifully chant the Quran all day. In the evenings they swarm the city, making women minus the hijab increasingly nervous. > > Total segregation of the sexes is a central goal of the Islamists, the consequences of which have been catastrophic. For example, on April 9, 2006, 21 women and eight children were crushed to death and scores injured in a stampede inside a three-storey madrassa in Karachi, where a large number of women were attending a weekly congregation. Male rescuers, who arrived in ambulances, were prevented from moving the injured women to hospitals. > > One cannot dismiss this incident as being just one of a kind. In fact, soon after the October 2005 earthquake, as I walked through the destroyed city of Balakot, a student of the Frontier Medical College described to me how he and his male colleagues were stopped by religious elders from digging out injured girl students from under the rubble of their school building. This action was similar to that of Saudi Arabia's ubiquitous religious 'mutaween' (police) who, in March 2002, had stopped school girls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing their abayas – a long robe worn in Saudi Arabia. In a rare departure from the norm, Saudi newspapers had blamed and criticised the mutaween for letting 15 girls burn to death. > > The Saudi-isation of a once-vibrant Pakistani culture continues at a relentless pace. The drive to segregate is now also being found among educated women. Vigorous proselytisers carrying this message, such as Mrs Farhat Hashmi, have been catapulted to the heights of fame and fortune. Their success is evident. Two decades back, the fully veiled student was a rarity on Pakistani university and college campuses. The abaya was an unknown word in Urdu. Today, some shops across the country specialise in abayas. At colleges and universities across Pakistan, the female student is seeking the anonymity of the burqa. And in some parts of the country she seems to outnumber her sisters who still "dare" to show their faces. > > I have observed the veil profoundly affect habits and attitudes. Many of my veiled female students have largely become silent note-takers, are increasingly timid and seem less inclined to ask questions or take part in discussions. They lack the confidence of a young university student. > > While social conservatism does not necessarily lead to violent extremism, it does shorten the distance. The socially conservative are more easily convinced that Muslims are being demonised by the rest of the world. The real problem, they say, is the plight of the Palestinians, the decadent and discriminatory West, the Jews, the Christians, the Hindus, the Kashmir issue, the Bush doctrine – the list runs on. They vehemently deny that those committing terrorist acts are Muslims, and if presented with incontrovertible evidence, say it is a mere reaction to oppression. > > The immediate future does not appear hopeful: increasing numbers of mullahs are creating cults around themselves and seizing control of the minds of worshippers. In the tribal areas, a string of new Islamist leaders have suddenly emerged: Baitullah Mehsud, Maulana Fazlullah and Mangal Bagh. Poverty, deprivation, lack of justice and extreme differences of wealth provide the perfect environment for these demagogues to recruit people to their cause. Their gruesome acts of terror are still being perceived by large numbers of Pakistanis merely as a war against imperialist America. This could not be further from the truth. > > In the long term, we will have to see how the larger political battle works out between those Pakistanis who want an Islamic theocratic state and those who want a modern Islamic republic. It may yet be possible to roll back those Islamist laws and institutions that have corroded Pakistani society for over 30 years and to defeat its hate-driven holy warriors. There is no chance of instant success; perhaps things may have to get worse before they get better. But, in the long term, I am convinced that the forces of irrationality will cancel themselves out because they act at random whereas reason pulls only in one direction. History leads us to believe that reason will triumph over unreason, and the evolution of the humans into a higher and better species will continue. Using ways that we cannot currently anticipate, they will somehow overcome their primal impulses of territoriality, tribalism, religiosity and nationalism. But, for now, > this must be just a matter of faith. > > The author teaches physics at Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad. > > http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJan2009/cover2jan2009.htm > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From info at fondation-langlois.org Tue Jan 20 00:56:28 2009 From: info at fondation-langlois.org (Fondation Daniel Langlois) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:26:28 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] News from the Daniel Langlois Foundation Message-ID: Caroline Langill, Shifting Polarities Shifting Polarities is a project by Caroline Langill which documents the production of electronic and new media works by Canadian artists between 1970 and 1990. This publication features nearly twenty extensive interviews with some of the most important artists of that period, including Max Dean, Vera Frenkel, David Rokeby, Michael Snow, Nell Tenhaaf, Norman White, and many others: http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?Lstsrv=200901&NumPage=1949 DOCAM International Summit 2008 Those who might have missed DOCAM's Fourth International Summit, which took place last October 30 and 31 in Montreal, now have the chance to view the videos of the presentations, all available on the DOCAM Research Alliance's website: Documentation and Conservation of the Media Arts Heritage: http://www.docam.ca/en/?Repere=200901&p=389 This Summit featured the launch of Shifting Polarities by Caroline Langill, as well as that of The Giver of Names: Documentary Collection by Caitlin Jones, who undertook the project in collaboration with Lizzie Muller: http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?Repere=200901&NumPage=2121 From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 05:27:12 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:57:12 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <184565.65358.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> <184565.65358.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901191557h10cd7ad2o7ad52f3cb3bb9974@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, underground = not public therefore the statement is exact: "anything since then is underground and not tolerated". if however the breach occurs in parts which are already under rebellion and fighting the state : waziristan (2006 story), or banned outfits who have been locked up and sent to guantanamo (Mush is accused of selling 600 people) - your bad jihadis then that cant be public. infact they were the waziristanis were looting banks in karachi to finance their war against the Pak army & US. that takes care of the waziristan item. The MMA story (2003) is when they were in negotiations with Mush (for money) to okay the LFO legitimizing Mush's Army rule/presidency extension. in any case MMA was a nonstarter as a party coalition and were under army control/maneuvering. this is pure & empty populism in the name of religion. iit is meaningless nonsense. The qurbani hides story is the most recent (2008) and shows how utterly powerless or oblivious the state is at the moment, to the internal groups who may or may not be challenging the state, with their own agenda, like JuD (in Punjab, NWFP and Islamabad.) I agree with zaffar abbas that zardari may not like this happening, but some elements might be sheltering them and their funds. i would not call this 'public' either. this might be the çlosest case', but things are very murky at the moment - what is and is not in govt control. The tensions can be seen in the asia times story (2005) and also in the one sent by Rahul. However to say that this is the norm in parts of punjab, nwfp and islamabad, I will have to check that, although i dont discount it, particularly given elements such as laal masjid in islamabad and groups originating in punjab, and the govt's history. With the current tensions on both borders and in fata, bajaur & swat, no one knows whats happening. as for your curious classification of jihadis: good (anti india), bad (pro-talibanization) and tolerant (anti-US &India, non-talibanization), yes i agree the good is the worst problem, but i dont see anything even close to matching pre-1999 scenario of the jihadis, their open offices, and collection boxes in shops & outfits, and the oppressive gloom and pall over the country - the taliban being supported bt the govt. (pre 9/11). I think we are in civil war at the moment, precisely because of the US theatre in Afghanistan and bombing inside the Pakistan border, and the 60 year-old mutual war rhetoric with India over kashmir. It is in no one's interest that the good, bad or tolerant jihadis win, and that's what hangs over us. the agendas have overtaken the state. the tolerant jihadis cant win, the good cant really be helped unless Kashmir goes away - they can cause mayhem. the bad - children of the US afghan war effort, taken up by the pakistanis - will not back down unless the US goes away and Pakistan Army regrets having bombed them - vow to reduce society to Stone Age - they dont mind being bombed into the Stone age - they are there. Having said that the overall numbers are small. you imply esp in your reference to the tolerant ones, that being anti-US or anti-India amounts to being jihadi. Is that true? at least you dont distinguish nationalism/patriotism from "jihad". If you do i am confident the number in this group, which you say is the largest, will plummet - besides the economic problems are just eating into incomes at the moment - and people do know the futility of war. best yasir On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Yasir > > Having aligned Pakistan with USA in the 'war against terror', Musharraf > could ill-afford the publicly blatant calls for raising money for "Jihad" > that were rampant all over Pakistan. "Jihad" and "Jihadist" could not be > allowed to be the public face of Pakistan. They had to be managed/controlled > for effective use. > > It would be ridiculous to suggest that the 2002 'ban' seriously dented or > completely sent 'underground' the raising of money for Jihad. Igf nothing > else Mosques with "Jihadi pulpits" and Madrassas with "Jihadi agendas" > (including the 'donation boxes' on their premises) have automatically been > fund raising places for "Jihad" > > As some have commentated, Musharraf and 'establishment' (read ISI) sought > to bring about a distinction between "Good Jihadis" (those who were to wage > Jihad against India) and the "Bad Jihadis" (who want Talibisation of > Pakistan). Then there are also the "we dont really know how to deal with > them Jihadis" who are sworn enemies of USA and India but could live with a > Non-Talibanised Pakistan. In my opinion, this category forms the largest > group and also reflects the thinking of the majority of Pakistanis. > > Squeeze on the (never can be eliminated) funding of the "Bad Jihadis" did > not stop the Pakistani Establishment from turning a convienient blind eye to > the raising of funds by the "Good Jihadis" or their operating quite openly > all over Pakistan. They did so not with impunity but with the blessings of > the Pakistani Establishment. > > Your statement "cleaned-up in 2002 ..... anything since then is underground > and not > tolerated" is a non-fact. > > A few reports. All post 2002: > > 1. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC11Df07.html > > In "The jihad lives on" (March 2005), Amir Mir writes: > > "The Lashkar leadership describes Hindus and Jews as the main enemies of > Islam, claiming India and Israel to be the main enemies of Pakistan. The > donation boxes of the Lashkar and the Dawa, which had initially > disappeared after the January 2002 ban, have reappeared in public places, as > well as mosques all over Punjab." > > > > > > " While banning six leading jihadi and sectarian groups in two phases - on > January 12, 2002, and November 15, 2003 - Musharraf had declared that no > organization or person would be allowed to indulge in terrorism to further > its cause. However, after the initial crackdown, the four major jihadi > outfits operating from Pakistan - Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad > (JeM), Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM) and Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM), resurfaced > and regrouped effectively to run their respective networks as openly as > before, though under different names." > > > > "Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, Maulana Masood Azhar, Maulana Fazalur Rehman Khalil > and Syed Salahuddin - the respective leaders of these organizations - are > again on the loose. The pattern of treatment being meted out to these > leading lights of jihad by the Musharraf-led administration shows that they > are being kept on the leash, ostensibly to wage a controlled jihad in Jammu > & Kashmir (J&K)." > > 2. http://www.dawn.com/2003/02/06/nat34.htm > > In the report "Jihad only solution to occupation" (Feb 2003): > > "Despite official ban the JI and Hizbul Mujahideen had set up donation camp > at Khyber Bazaar and distributed pamphlets, carrying Jihadi messages." > > 3. http://www.dawn.com/2006/11/06/top7.htm > > Some relevant extracts from this report (Nov 2006): > > "A Shura (council) of militant groups in the North and South Waziristan > ......appoint a committee to collect donations to finance Mujahideen's > activities." > > > > " "Nobody will be allowed to collect donations and the amount collected as > donation will be utilised for bearing expenses of the activities of > Mujahideen," according to one pamphlet." > > 4. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/14/top9.htm > > Not much is left to imagination in the slogan quoted in this Dec 2008 > report on the collection of the hides of animals sacrificed at the time of > Eid ul Adha: > > " "QURBANI ki khalain un ke liye ... gin ka lahu Islam ke liye" (Hides of > sacrificial animals for those who dedicate/shed their blood for Islam). So > says a bold inscription on a big plastic bag meant for stuffing and carrying > such hides." > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > --- On *Mon, 1/19/09, yasir ~يا سر * wrote: > > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths > about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 3:00 PM > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana > >wrote: > > > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of Pakistan. > > Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were > cleaned up > by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and not > tolerated. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 05:54:47 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 05:24:47 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901190724v67be8cb2r2f60bf11aa214e91@mail.gmail.com> References: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901190724v67be8cb2r2f60bf11aa214e91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901191624u79545aa1t87109d864a70bb07@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha No I have not looked at many posters, however on a trip to an afghan refugee camp on the border when the bombing in afghanistan was on, i did buy the songs of the taliban which were sung without music. the voice/s were melodious and there was a chorus in some songs - they sounded like slowly sung chants. in the bus there the bus driver put it on a tape, which i learned later was a cassette designed as a magazine updating people on what was going on in the afghanistan fight, with a new edition released every so often. in the bus people listened for a while but soon were bad mouthing him. it turned out that the conductor, a young guy was the one who wanted to blast it. he had to shut up then, but he didnt give up... as for posters, i probably only know only ones that relate to 'broader issues'. see abro: http://www.flickr.com/photos/abro/sets/72157604267486790/ I think someone has looked briefly at a history of wallchalkings as political statements in karachi - I think in Language and Politics in Pakistan by Tariq Rehman best yasir 2009/1/19 Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Dear Yasir (Dear All ) > > Thank you for pointing out the role of wall chalkings in mobilization of > people for 'jehad'. I think chalkings or writings on the wall are an > important indicator of the socio-political mood of a space. In this regard, > I want to stretch this idea of chalk writing as a form of mass > communication, to posters, wall posters and how they are able to hold a > muted conversation with a multitude. > > For instance, the article pasted below talks about posters as a graphic > form of protest. > > An excerpt- > > Posters have a distinguished history as vehicles of protest, propaganda and > commerce, from 15th-century broadsheets supporting the Protestant > Reformation to 19th-century theater billboards by Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. > In the 20th century, politics and art merged in powerful propaganda posters > in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. The American > counterculture of the late 1960s inspired a renaissance of protest posters, > in psychedelic colors. > > It would be interesting to know what sort of posters are in vogue in > Pakistan today. I would like to believe that almost all of them would have a > local flavor but certainly there must be some which relate to broader > issues. > > May I suggest you to please share with us, if you can, your own reflections > about how were posters related to Islamic jihad designed or framed.etc Were > they similar or different to say posters distributed at sufi shrines, > especially in terms of iconography and here I am, of course, specifically > referring to Yusuf Saeed's monumental work on posters and syncretic > cultures. > > Regards > > Taha > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44847-2005Jun4.html > > Graphic Forms of Protest > > By Linda Hales > Washington Post Staff Writer > Saturday, June 4, 2005; Page C01 > > A graphic printed on a T-shirt demands, "Curb Your God." > > A poster for designer jeans shows one pant leg knotted, as if the wearer > were an amputee. The words War Wear have been appended to the brand's label: > Rifle. > > > Another poster mimics Apple Computer's colorful advertising campaign for > the iPod. Except this one is about "iRaq" and the logo is a bomb, not an > apple. The black figure silhouetted against a hot pink background is not > dancing to iTunes but is a hooded prisoner from Abu Ghraib, balancing on a > box with hands attached to a white cord. > > These are three of more than 400 provocative, emotionally charged graphics > in "The Design of Dissent: Socially and Politically Driven Graphics" > (Rockport). The book of posters, buttons, illustrations and other graphics > was compiled by Milton Glaser, dean of American graphic designers, with > Mirko Ilic, a noted illustrator and art director. An exhibition of 100 > designs opened yesterday at New York's School of Visual Arts, where Glaser > and Ilic teach. > > In an age dominated by moving images, these freeze-frame visuals hold their > own. They represent the activist strain of graphic design. Like contemporary > advertising, it thrives on shock, wit and instant recognition. But as > playwright Tony Kushner writes in the book's foreword, there must also be > "some galling truth . . . imprisoned beneath the surface of public > discourse" that causes a designer to fire a signal flare. > > Glaser calls the collection an international survey of "nontraditional > dissenting opinion." The designer, who is best known for the "I H NY" logo, > says that lately he has been focused on the importance of expressing > dissent. The essence of his view is captured on a button he designed, which > declares "DISSENT *Protects **Democracy*." > > "Once you say that dissent protects democracy, people get the idea right > away," Glaser said by phone this week. "When you have dissenting opinion, it > comes out of some idea that fairness or appropriateness has been violated." > > Work on the book began with a global call for submissions. Glaser and Ilic > received more than a thousand richly varied examples. Most of those selected > were created after 2000 and address politics, racism, corporate power, > pollution, religion, media, animal rights and food. Three sections are > devoted to war and strife -- in the former Yugoslavia, in Iraq and between > Israel and Palestinians. Concepts of peace and equality get as much space. > > Images dominate all but 12 of the book's 240 pages. Minimal text includes > an interview with Glaser. Ilic is represented by cover art for the > alternative magazine World War 3 Illustrated showing a ferocious hound in > camouflage fatigues preparing to devour a bone labeled Iraq. The caption > does not indicate whether the artist was illustrating a story or drawing his > own conclusions. The Bosnian-born New Yorker has described himself as an > "individual anarchist" willing to "poke fun at any power, because all of > them are corrupt." > > Emotions run high, whatever the topic, but techniques and symbols run the > gamut. The iRaq poster by Copper Greene relies on parody. The T-shirt > designer, Daniel Young, needed only typography to express concern that > so-called divine directives are sparking violence and intolerance. The jeans > were designed by Slovenian artist Tomato Kosir as a commentary on > consumerism and war. The Coca-Cola logo appears in many guises. Fingerprints > are popular images. So is raw meat. > > Samantha Hoover, assistant director of communications for the School of > Visual Arts, says creative people tend to be liberal. But the book was not > intended to be one-sided. Palestinian and Israeli points of view were > included, Glaser points out. Communism is skewered. So is President Bush. A > design team from Slovenia played off the American Dairy Association's "Got > Milk?" campaign for a "Got Oil?" poster on which Bush sports a mustache of > oil. The poster shows how astonishingly global advertising has become. > > Posters have a distinguished history as vehicles of protest, propaganda and > commerce, from 15th-century broadsheets supporting the Protestant > Reformation to 19th-century theater billboards by Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. > In the 20th century, politics and art merged in powerful propaganda posters > in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. The American > counterculture of the late 1960s inspired a renaissance of protest posters, > in psychedelic colors. These days, Hoover senses renewed interest in public > affairs. > > "Since 9/11, with the Iraqi war and all that's happening, twenty- and > thirtysomethings are paying attention to current affairs in a different > way," she says. > > Some issues are constant. In 1969, Dan Reisinger conveyed a message about > Jewish emigration from the former Soviet Union by using the hammer and > sickle as the "G" in "Let My People Go." More than 20 years later, he drew a > poster warning of a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe. A recent > poster by Turkish designer Bulent Erkmen for an Israeli client sought to > address the sharing of power in Jerusalem. The word "equal" is presented as > a page from a dictionary. All attempts at definition have been struck > through with a red line. > > Chaz Maviyane-Davies produced gripping posters relating the United Nations > Articles on Human Rights to an African audience. For Article 4, a figure > wears free-flowing dreadlocks made of chains above the words, "No one should > be subjected to slavery or servitude." > > Malaysian designer Theresa Tsang created three posters that protest the > abuse of women. What appears to be the imprint of a lipstick kiss is an > amalgam of photos of knuckles, glass shards and men beating women. > > Design can transform even grim topics. In Serbia, the Thea Line cosmetics > company commissioned an antiwar poster using its product. The designer, Igor > Avzner, turned lipstick tubes into a cartridge belt, which is worn by a > fashion model. The message reads, "Make Up, Not War." > > > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:30 AM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana > >wrote: >> >> > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of >> Pakistan. >> >> Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were cleaned >> up >> by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and not >> tolerated. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Jan 20 06:09:52 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:39:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901191557h10cd7ad2o7ad52f3cb3bb9974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <301266.54019.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir, The point I was trying to make earlier was that since JUD engages into a lot of charitable activities as well,it can solicit funds openly and then use it for training terrorists. Even the donors won't know how the funds are being appropriated. Another impression from the news items that I have gone through is that Pakistan Govt does not seem to have the will to restrain Hafiz Saeed LET/JUD.It seems to me that LET\JUD will be allowed to carry its activities if it is not in the international eye. But your point is well taken. I also want to know your opinion on the Kamran Shafi piece that I posted.He seems to be of the view that ISI\Army etc are using the Taliban as a cash cow.They are not going after them whole-heartedly because they want to keep playing them for alms from the US.The civil war scenario is a only a half-truth. Thanks Rahul --- On Tue, 1/20/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 5:27 AM > Dear Kshmendra, > > underground = not public > therefore the statement is exact: > "anything since then is underground and not > tolerated". > > if however the breach occurs in parts which are already > under rebellion and > fighting the state : waziristan (2006 story), or banned > outfits who have > been locked up and sent to guantanamo (Mush is accused of > selling 600 > people) - your bad jihadis then that cant be public. > infact they were the > waziristanis were looting banks in karachi to finance their > war against the > Pak army & US. that takes care of the waziristan item. > > The MMA story (2003) is when they were in negotiations with > Mush (for money) > to okay the LFO legitimizing Mush's Army > rule/presidency extension. in any > case MMA was a nonstarter as a party coalition and were > under army > control/maneuvering. this is pure & empty populism in > the name of religion. > iit is meaningless nonsense. > > The qurbani hides story is the most recent (2008) and shows > how utterly > powerless or oblivious the state is at the moment, to the > internal groups > who may or may not be challenging the state, with their own > agenda, like JuD > (in Punjab, NWFP and Islamabad.) I agree with zaffar abbas > that zardari may > not like this happening, but some elements might be > sheltering them and > their funds. i would not call this 'public' either. > this might be the > çlosest case', but things are very murky at the moment > - what is and is not > in govt control. > > The tensions can be seen in the asia times story (2005) and > also in the one > sent by Rahul. However to say that this is the norm in > parts of punjab, > nwfp and islamabad, I will have to check that, although i > dont discount it, > particularly given elements such as laal masjid in > islamabad and groups > originating in punjab, and the govt's history. With the > current tensions on > both borders and in fata, bajaur & swat, no one knows > whats happening. > > as for your curious classification of jihadis: good (anti > india), bad > (pro-talibanization) and tolerant (anti-US &India, > non-talibanization), yes > i agree the good is the worst problem, but i dont see > anything even close to > matching pre-1999 scenario of the jihadis, their open > offices, and > collection boxes in shops & outfits, and the oppressive > gloom and pall over > the country - the taliban being supported bt the govt. (pre > 9/11). > > I think we are in civil war at the moment, precisely > because of the US > theatre in Afghanistan and bombing inside the Pakistan > border, and the 60 > year-old mutual war rhetoric with India over kashmir. It is > in no one's > interest that the good, bad or tolerant jihadis win, and > that's what hangs > over us. the agendas have overtaken the state. the tolerant > jihadis cant > win, the good cant really be helped unless Kashmir goes > away - they can > cause mayhem. the bad - children of the US afghan war > effort, taken up by > the pakistanis - will not back down unless the US goes away > and Pakistan > Army regrets having bombed them - vow to reduce society to > Stone Age - they > dont mind being bombed into the Stone age - they are there. > > Having said that the overall numbers are small. > > you imply esp in your reference to the tolerant ones, that > being anti-US or > anti-India amounts to being jihadi. Is that true? at least > you dont > distinguish nationalism/patriotism from "jihad". > If you do i am confident > the number in this group, which you say is the largest, > will plummet - > besides the economic problems are just eating into incomes > at the moment - > and people do know the futility of war. > > best > > yasir > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > Dear Yasir > > > > Having aligned Pakistan with USA in the 'war > against terror', Musharraf > > could ill-afford the publicly blatant calls for > raising money for "Jihad" > > that were rampant all over Pakistan. "Jihad" > and "Jihadist" could not be > > allowed to be the public face of Pakistan. They had to > be managed/controlled > > for effective use. > > > > It would be ridiculous to suggest that the 2002 > 'ban' seriously dented or > > completely sent 'underground' the raising of > money for Jihad. Igf nothing > > else Mosques with "Jihadi pulpits" and > Madrassas with "Jihadi agendas" > > (including the 'donation boxes' on their > premises) have automatically been > > fund raising places for "Jihad" > > > > As some have commentated, Musharraf and > 'establishment' (read ISI) sought > > to bring about a distinction between "Good > Jihadis" (those who were to wage > > Jihad against India) and the "Bad Jihadis" > (who want Talibisation of > > Pakistan). Then there are also the "we dont > really know how to deal with > > them Jihadis" who are sworn enemies of USA and > India but could live with a > > Non-Talibanised Pakistan. In my opinion, this category > forms the largest > > group and also reflects the thinking of the majority > of Pakistanis. > > > > Squeeze on the (never can be eliminated) funding of > the "Bad Jihadis" did > > not stop the Pakistani Establishment from turning a > convienient blind eye to > > the raising of funds by the "Good Jihadis" > or their operating quite openly > > all over Pakistan. They did so not with impunity but > with the blessings of > > the Pakistani Establishment. > > > > Your statement "cleaned-up in 2002 ..... anything > since then is underground > > and not > > tolerated" is a non-fact. > > > > A few reports. All post 2002: > > > > 1. > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC11Df07.html > > > > In "The jihad lives on" (March 2005), Amir > Mir writes: > > > > "The Lashkar leadership describes Hindus and Jews > as the main enemies of > > Islam, claiming India and Israel to be the main > enemies of Pakistan. The > > donation boxes of the Lashkar and the Dawa, which had > initially > > disappeared after the January 2002 ban, have > reappeared in public places, as > > well as mosques all over Punjab." > > > > > > > > > > > > " While banning six leading jihadi and sectarian > groups in two phases - on > > January 12, 2002, and November 15, 2003 - Musharraf > had declared that no > > organization or person would be allowed to indulge in > terrorism to further > > its cause. However, after the initial crackdown, the > four major jihadi > > outfits operating from Pakistan - Lashkar-e-Toiba > (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad > > (JeM), Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM) and > Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM), resurfaced > > and regrouped effectively to run their respective > networks as openly as > > before, though under different names." > > > > > > > > "Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, Maulana Masood Azhar, > Maulana Fazalur Rehman Khalil > > and Syed Salahuddin - the respective leaders of these > organizations - are > > again on the loose. The pattern of treatment being > meted out to these > > leading lights of jihad by the Musharraf-led > administration shows that they > > are being kept on the leash, ostensibly to wage a > controlled jihad in Jammu > > & Kashmir (J&K)." > > > > 2. http://www.dawn.com/2003/02/06/nat34.htm > > > > In the report "Jihad only solution to > occupation" (Feb 2003): > > > > "Despite official ban the JI and Hizbul > Mujahideen had set up donation camp > > at Khyber Bazaar and distributed pamphlets, carrying > Jihadi messages." > > > > 3. http://www.dawn.com/2006/11/06/top7.htm > > > > Some relevant extracts from this report (Nov 2006): > > > > "A Shura (council) of militant groups in the > North and South Waziristan > > ......appoint a committee to collect donations to > finance Mujahideen's > > activities." > > > > > > > > " "Nobody will be allowed to collect > donations and the amount collected as > > donation will be utilised for bearing expenses of the > activities of > > Mujahideen," according to one pamphlet." > > > > 4. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/14/top9.htm > > > > Not much is left to imagination in the slogan quoted > in this Dec 2008 > > report on the collection of the hides of animals > sacrificed at the time of > > Eid ul Adha: > > > > " "QURBANI ki khalain un ke liye ... gin ka > lahu Islam ke liye" (Hides of > > sacrificial animals for those who dedicate/shed their > blood for Islam). So > > says a bold inscription on a big plastic bag meant for > stuffing and carrying > > such hides." > > > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Mon, 1/19/09, yasir ~يا سر > * wrote: > > > > From: yasir ~يا سر > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered > houses - re: 10 myths > > about pakistan > > To: "sarai list" > > > Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 3:00 PM > > > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana > > > >wrote: > > > > > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the > major cities of Pakistan. > > > > Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp > training' were > > cleaned up > > by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is > underground and not > > tolerated. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > > the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 20 10:02:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:32:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] On confusions regarding the term 'pan-Islamic'. In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40901161856t72a0da5dw4763d3e19360a8e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901192032x12bc345ds4c38e5dc950ab44d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Lalit, Thank you for replying back. Let us see what this mails suggests - -Coming at a time when the country is yet to get over the shock of the recent 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage that was executed by the Pakistani pan Islamists, your query on the face of it does not really deserve a response.- So if a country X is yet to get back from a crisis Y executed by a country Z which has religion A as its State religion, then X should not make any efforts to understand Y, define Y, talk about and entertain different perspectives on Y, different interpretations on Y, Is that what you intend to imply? or specifically you don't want to respond to Mumbai Carnage and the alleged role of a completely bizarre and confusing phenomena called 'pan islamism' only because of whatever reasons. Could you please clarify this? After having read your mail, it seems, that one must assume without caring for any substantiated facts that there exists something called 'pan-islamism'. In mumbai terror attacks Sir!, one third of those killed were Muslims. Please tell me where in this world would you find a notion with a 'pan' prefix which indulges in blatant, ruthless and cold murder of its own kind. -I have said it before on this forum & I repeat pan Islamic terror is not synonymous with Muslim faith- I do not think that you are wrong here but at the same time I think the use of 'pan' prefix with Islam produces a general sort of meaning which obfuscates rather than clarifies. It seems as if a small brand is poaching a bigger brand by naming itself on the lines of the older, established brand. Please tell me are all Muslims 'pan-Islamists'? Are all 'pan-Islamists' truly Muslims? or don't you feel that some distinction must be made between all those who follow Islam but are not 'pan-islamists' and all those who are 'pan-islamists' but do not follow Islam and all those 'pan-islamists' who follow Islam (but only a certain kind of Islamic ideology, like Wahaibism, or Hanafism, or Salafism etc) and all those who are not practicing Muslims but were born in a family that follows Islam and who are 'pan-islamists' and all those who are practicing Muslims and were born in a family that was does not follow Islam but who follow 'pan-islamism' and so on? Must we, then for instance, start blaming the entire Hindu religion for the blood of every innocent who died in Kandhamol? -And for the 'meaning' you must direct this query to the proponents of pan Islamism- those who believe in 'Azadi- bara- e- Islam'- The assumption here seems to be that if members of X group say something about Y religion, then we must always consider X's position on Y as valid, provided people of X group must appear to have belonged to Y religion? Is this what you are trying to imply? Then, for instance, by the way of an example, should from tomorrow onwards, especially those who are in India must earnestly start believing only those thoughts, worldviews, belief systems, opinions and ideas on say 'Hinduisim' as those propagated by the RSS and the BJP, which interprets, this truly beautiful religion in a narrow, a sectarian and in a regressive manner?or take only that those views about Christianity as those propagated by Ku Klux Klan or Nazis? or develop a worldview about Judaism by only following an interpretation given by Zionists? -What is it that drives a young Birmingham born Bilal of Pakistani origin to come all the way to Srinagar to commit car suicide bombing or what is that motivates Bangluru born space engineer Kafil to blow him self up at the faraway Glasgow airport ????- Let us see what's the argument here- if an individual X who interprets a religion Y in a particular manner which motivates him to commit an act of violence resulting in injury or loss of life or property belonging to Z people then the whole religion with its complicated history, its diverse value systems, its differing beliefs systems, its contrasting manners must be blamed. If this is what you are implying, then can you please guide me towards an instance where we have in this world, a religion that has not seen murder, rape, mindless killing, and torture in its name? or if this not what are implying because you feel that two wrongs do not make a right, then should we start prosecuting all those religions whose members who are private individuals, lunatics really, of deranged mentality, have indulged in a willful act of violence? Hence, should we then start sounding really stupid by blaming the entire Hindu religion by what a Sadhvi Pragya has done? -Why does a community remain silent when the symbol of Kashmiriyat –Chare Sharif is singed by a Pakistani mercenary Mast Gul in full view of the cheering crowds?- Again the assumption seems to be if the X members of a community Y who follow a religion Z do not speak in their individual capacity about an act of violence inflected by A members of their Y community against X members of community Y, then going by this rather clear logic, we must conclude that, surely this must amply demonstrate the existence of an overarching phenomena, a 'pan-Z' mentality which is stopping X members who follow religion Z to not to say something. Is that what you want to imply? or you may want to talk in specific terms and try to access specific motivations and specific intentions about specific acts that happened at specific spaces in specific period of time. I think that given the clarity of logic and the precise nature of reasoning we can spare ourselves the trouble of devising a counter example in this case. > And why is it that their co religionists in rest of India do not speak up against the proponents of Azadi bara e Islam who aspire to join the Jinah's land of the pure.> So if X members of community Y who belong to religion Z and do not speak against a desire of W'' members of A,B and C community who also belong to Z religion then surely this must act as fundamental proof of allegiance of an larger mentality or a larger belief system which is binding everyone in a conspiracy of silence. Is this what you imply? Please elaborate. > Common Taha, you know it well what pan Islamism is all about. It is a threat –it exists. > Dear Lalit, could I kindly ask you to not 'common me', because there is nothing to be 'commoned about' frankly and I would feel grateful if you could please take some time to respond. Because even by your rather clear, precise, logical explanation on 'pan-islamism' supported by a breath taking range of examples and historical events I do not know what 'pan-Islamism' is all about. In itself I find 'pan-islamism' an obscure term, a confusing term and an highly open term which allows itself to be interpreted in any manner. I would like to think of your effort to explain pan islamism as a huge service to my understanding and in the same breath may I ask you share your insights on this creature called Muslim Indian or Indian Muslim as you have implied in you mail. I think as a generic socio-religious category the epithet 'Indian Muslim' is again very confusing and vague to me. Could you please tell me what do you mean when you use a term like Indian Muslim? Because as far as I know there are kinds of Muslims as there are kinds of Hindus and Kinds of Christians and kinds of Jews etc Amongst Muslims too social and caste hierarchies have existed from a long long time. In twentieth century these hierarchies were so deep rooted and prevalent, that it drove a Kashmiri Brahmin convert to Islam to exhort muslims as thus- Munaffat Eik Hai Is Quam Ke Nuksaan Bhi Eik Eik Hi Sab Ka Nabi, Deen Bhi Imaan Bhi Eik Harm E Paak Bhi Alaah Bhi , KurAan Bhi Eik Kuch Badi Baat Thi , Hotey Jo Musalmaa Bhi Eik Firka Bandi Hai Kahen Aur Kayee Zaatey Hain Kya Zamaney Me Panapne Ki Yahin Batein Hain Yu To Sayyed Bhi , Mirza Bhi Ho Afghan Bhi Ho Tum Sab Kuch Ho Batao toh, Musalmaa Bhi Ho Seen from my perspective 'pan- islamism' is a very dominant perception which benefits both the Hindu and the Muslim right. As of now I do not understand this idea at all but I want to, if this idea or notion exists, hence I feel that there is all the more need to work it out as a specific concept, as a set of value system, a broader world view and so on. Warm regards Taha On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > Dear Taha, > > Coming at a time when the country is yet to get over the shock of the recent 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage that was executed by the Pakistani pan Islamists, your query on the face of it does not really deserve a response. > > > > I have said it before on this forum & I repeat pan Islamic terror is not synonymous with Muslim faith nor are Muslim Indians in any way different from other Indians following other faiths – all have equal stakes in this country. Therefore, we must raise our voice against the menace of pan Islamic terrorism as it affects us all. > > > > And for the 'meaning' you must direct this query to the proponents of pan Islamism- those who believe in 'Azadi- bara- e- Islam'- those who subjected Kashmiri Hindu Pandits to ethnic cleansing in the name of establishing 'Nizame Mustafa' with out Kashmiri Hindu men but along with the Kashmiri Hindu women. > > > > What is it that drives a young Birmingham born Bilal of Pakistani origin to come all the way to Srinagar to commit car suicide bombing or what is that motivates Bangluru born space engineer Kafil to blow him self up at the faraway Glasgow airport ????.... > > > > Why does a community remain silent when the symbol of Kashmiriyat –Chare Sharif is singed by a Pakistani mercenary Mast Gul in full view of the cheering crowds? > > And why is it that their co religionists in rest of India do not speak up against the proponents of Azadi bara e Islam who aspire to join the Jinah's land of the pure. > > > > Agreed, Islam is not a homogenous entity. But there is a crude attempt to forge homogeneity & that is where the the problem arises. > > > > Common Taha, you know it well what pan Islamism is all about. It is a threat –it exists. > > Regards > > LA > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:56:29 +0000 > > Subject: On confusions regarding the term 'pan-Islamic'. > > From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > > To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com > > CC: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > Dear Lallit, > > > > Thank you for posting your comments. > > > > Could you please elaborate on what you mean by pan Islamic terror? > > Because I believe that there is no such thing as pan-islamic. The > > reason for this is I think, in so far as my understanding of Islam > > goes, Islam is not a homogeneous entity. Hence if it is not a > > homogeneous entity then why do you feel it appropriate to use the this > > tag? > > > > Furthermore I would also like to know your thoughts on what do you > > mean by Islam? Is it a precise concept? If it is then could you kindly > > define it? If it is not then may I ask you to please enlighten us with > > your insights regarding the broad limits of this term. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Taha > > > > David Miliband's poor taste & judgement were also visible when he shot > > his mouth & attributed the scourge of pan Islamic terror that has been > > targetting India for the past two decdes to what he thought was > > "Kashmir issue". > > Would somebody ask him whether the Glassgow Airpor suicide bombing > > by the Bangluru born aerospace engineert or > > Srinagar 2000 X-mas eve car suicide bombing by the Barmingham born > > (Of Pakistani origin ) Bilal & London train bombings or Madrid train > > bombings or even 9/11 World Trade Centre bombings were executed > > because of his fancied 'Kashmir issue'. > > It seems , prior to his departure ,he was briefed by the powerful > > Pakistani Mirpuris & other London based anti India pan Islamists. > > It was shocking to see in the media our own 'royal PM' in making > > hobnobbing with the visiting 'royal fool 'while our foreign affairs > > spokesperson wanted the visiting guest keep his mouth shut. > > Regards all > > LA > > > ________________________________ > See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Dear Taha, > > Coming at a time when the country is yet to get over the shock of the > recent 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage that was executed by the Pakistani pan > Islamists, your query on the face of it does not really deserve a response. > > > > I have said it before on this forum & I repeat pan Islamic terror is not > synonymous with Muslim faith nor are Muslim Indians in any way different > from other Indians following other faiths – all have equal stakes in this > country. Therefore, we must raise our voice against the menace of pan > Islamic terrorism as it affects us all. > > > > And for the 'meaning' you must direct this query to the proponents of pan > Islamism- those who believe in 'Azadi- bara- e- Islam'- those who subjected > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits to ethnic cleansing in the name of establishing > 'Nizame Mustafa' with out Kashmiri Hindu men but along with the Kashmiri > Hindu women. > > > > What is it that drives a young Birmingham born Bilal of Pakistani origin to > come all the way to Srinagar to commit car suicide bombing or what is that > motivates Bangluru born space engineer Kafil to blow him self up at the > faraway Glasgow airport ????.... > > > > Why does a community remain silent when the symbol of Kashmiriyat –Chare > Sharif is singed by a Pakistani mercenary Mast Gul in full view of the > cheering crowds? > > And why is it that their co religionists in rest of India do not speak up > against the proponents of Azadi bara e Islam who aspire to join the > Jinah's land of the pure. > > > > Agreed, Islam is not a homogenous entity. But there is a crude attempt to > forge homogeneity & that is where the the problem arises. > > > > Common Taha, you know it well what pan Islamism is all about. It is a threat > –it exists. > > Regards > > LA > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:56:29 +0000 >> Subject: On confusions regarding the term 'pan-Islamic'. >> From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com >> To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com >> CC: reader-list at sarai.net >> >> Dear Lallit, >> >> Thank you for posting your comments. >> >> Could you please elaborate on what you mean by pan Islamic terror? >> Because I believe that there is no such thing as pan-islamic. The >> reason for this is I think, in so far as my understanding of Islam >> goes, Islam is not a homogeneous entity. Hence if it is not a >> homogeneous entity then why do you feel it appropriate to use the this >> tag? >> >> Furthermore I would also like to know your thoughts on what do you >> mean by Islam? Is it a precise concept? If it is then could you kindly >> define it? If it is not then may I ask you to please enlighten us with >> your insights regarding the broad limits of this term. >> >> >> Regards >> >> Taha >> >> David Miliband's poor taste & judgement were also visible when he shot >> his mouth & attributed the scourge of pan Islamic terror that has been >> targetting India for the past two decdes to what he thought was >> "Kashmir issue". >> Would somebody ask him whether the Glassgow Airpor suicide bombing >> by the Bangluru born aerospace engineert or >> Srinagar 2000 X-mas eve car suicide bombing by the Barmingham born >> (Of Pakistani origin ) Bilal & London train bombings or Madrid train >> bombings or even 9/11 World Trade Centre bombings were executed >> because of his fancied 'Kashmir issue'. >> It seems , prior to his departure ,he was briefed by the powerful >> Pakistani Mirpuris & other London based anti India pan Islamists. >> It was shocking to see in the media our own 'royal PM' in making >> hobnobbing with the visiting 'royal fool 'while our foreign affairs >> spokesperson wanted the visiting guest keep his mouth shut. >> Regards all >> LA > > > ________________________________ > See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family From tapio at translocal.net Tue Jan 20 16:01:36 2009 From: tapio at translocal.net (Tapio Makela) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:31:36 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] CFP: NEW MEDIA AND SOCIETY: MOBILE COMMUNICATION AND THE DEVELOPING WORLD Message-ID: <20090120123136.53xhzbncs0ssgwkc@mail.mbar.fi> CALL FOR PAPERS SPECIAL ISSUE OF NEW MEDIA AND SOCIETY: MOBILE COMMUNICATION AND THE DEVELOPING WORLD Rich Ling & Heather A. Horst, guest editors We are seeking papers for a special edition of the journal New Media & Society focusing on mobile communication and media, and its impact on the developing world. We are interested in papers that empirically describe the use of mobile practices as well as the convergence of mobile and other platforms in the developing world (e.g. Africa, Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe or other locations in the "global south"). Successful papers will examine the integration and use of mobile communication technology and its implications (both positive and negative) in individuals' lives. We are seeking papers that investigate the global as well as the local appropriations of mobile media use and its relationship to social change and/or development. Papers might address issues such as: * What are the social, cultural, gender related and political dimensions of mobile communication in the developing world? * What are the determinants, obstacles and implications of the adoption and use of mobile communications? * What are the dimensions of inequalities and how does mobile communication address these inequalities? * How does mobile communication facilitate activities such as care giving, coordination, social cohesion, money transfer, commerce, locally and globally? Submissions may be in the form of empirical research studies or theory-building papers and should be 5000 - 7000 words (in English). Papers must reflect new scholarship and not have been previously published (it is possible to submit revised conference papers). Authors interested in submitting to the special issue should send their 200-word abstract to either guest editor (Rich Ling or Heather Horst) on or before 1 March 2009. A sub-set of these abstracts will be selected for further development. Papers based on the abstracts that have been accepted for further consideration, will be due on 15 July 2009. Authors of papers selected for formal review may be invited to participate in a Pre-Conference Workshop at Association of Internet Research meetings on 7 October 2009 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA. About the editors of this NM&S special issue: Rich Ling (richard.ling at telenor.com) is a sociologist at Telenor's research institute located near Oslo, Norway, and a guest Professor at the IT University of Copenhagen. He has also been the Pohs visiting professor of communication studies at the University of Michigan. He is the author of the recently published book New Tech, New Ties: How Mobile communication is reshaping social cohesion as well as The Mobile Connection: The cell phone's impact on society, and along with Scott Campbell he is the editor of The Reconstruction of Space and Time Through Mobile Communication Practices. For the past fifteen years, he has worked in the research arm of Telenor and has been active in researching issues associated with new information communication technology and society with a particular focus on mobile telephony. Heather A. Horst (hhorst at uci.edu) is a sociocultural anthropologist at the Humanities Research Institute at the University of California, Irvine. She is the co-author (with Daniel Miller) of The Cell Phone: An Anthropology of Communication that examines the implications of mobile phones for development in Jamaica and is co-author with Mizuko Ito, et al. of a forthcoming book published by MIT Press, entitled Hanging Out, Messing Around and Geeking Out: Living and Learning with New Media She received her Ph. D. in Social Anthropology from University College London. Before joining UCHRI, she worked as a research fellow at the University of the West Indies and University College London and a postdoctoral scholar at University of Southern California, and University of California, Berkeley where her focus has been on the appropriation of new media and communication technologies in Jamaica and the United States. -- From kaksanjay at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 18:39:54 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:39:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Power of the Pulpit Message-ID: <5c5369880901200509g202db4a2g299362bf4d4eeb29@mail.gmail.com> Since Mohammed Hanif's last piece has dominated so much of the List recently, here is another one to rock to... I cant help but draw attention to my two favourite lines in it: "You can blame the Pashtuns for many things, but no true Pashtun has ever been accused of wearing tight dresses. Pakistan's president, Asif Zardari, stumbling from one crisis to another, has been accused of many things, but nobody has ever accused him of having a political philosophy." Best Sanjay Kak _________________________ The Power of the Pulpit By Mohammed Hanif Maulvi Karim, who taught me to read the Quran and led prayers in our village mosque for 40 years, was one of the most powerless men in our community. The only power he assumed for himself was that of postman. The postman would deliver the mail to him and then he would walk from house to house distributing it. He would, of course, have to read the letters for a lot of families who couldn't read. He was also a dog lover. I joined him a number of times as he played with his little Russian poodle outside his house, then walked to the mosque, did his ablutions and led the prayers. After prayers he would hang out at the door of the mosque exchanging gossip with regulars. There would be people loitering outside the mosque when he went in. They would still be around as he finished the prayers and came out. It never occurred to him to ask these people to join him. It never occurred to the people who hung outside the mosque to feel embarrassed about not joining the prayers. They all lived on the same streets, not always in harmony, but religion in any of its forms was not something they discussed on the street. What was there to discuss? Wasn't faith a strictly private business? Something that happened between a man and his god and not something that had to be discussed in your living room. A minority went regularly to the mosques, another minority opened a bottle of something in the evening, but most people had secular pastimes like watching soap operas on TV and placing small bets on cricket matches. He may sound like a character from the early 20th century but Maulvi Karim died only about a decade ago, and till his last days he had not given up his routine. In the social hierarchy he was somewhere between the barber and the cobbler. His basic functions were limited to being present at births, death and weddings. If he had been alive today and watched an episode of Alim Online, I wonder what he would have made of it. I wonder if he would have felt envious of all the celebrity maulanas who have become a staple of satellite television programming. Not only do they crop up on every discussion on every topic on earth but now they have their own TV channels as well, where they can preach 24/7, interrupted only by adverts for other mullahs. The mosque imam, who served an essential social function, has given way to another kind of mullah: the power mullah, who drives in a four-wheeler flanked by armed guards; the entertainer mullah, who hogs the airwaves; and the entrepreneur mullah, who builds networks of mosques and madrassas and spends his summer touring Europe. And then there is the much maligned mullah with his dreams of an eternal war and world domination. Since "mullah," when pronounced in a certain way, can be read as a derogatory term, and since we don't want to offend them (because we all know that they do get very easily offended) we should call them evangelists or preachers. Mullahs, maulvis, imamas, or ulema-i-karam as many of them prefer to call themselves, have never had the kind of influence or social standing that they enjoy now. A large part of Pakistan is enthralled by this new generation of evangelists. They are there on prime time TV, they thunder on FM radios between adverts for Pepsi and hair removing cream. In the past few years, they have established fancy websites with embedded videos; mobile phone companies offer their sermons for download right to your telephone. They come suited, they come dressed like characters out of the Thousand and One Nights, they are men and they are women. Some of them even dress like bankers and talk like property agents offering bargain deals in heaven. I grew up during the time of General Zia, the first evangelist to occupy the presidency in Pakistan. But even he had the good sense to keep the beards away from prime time television. But the ruthless media barons of today have no such qualms. They have turned religion into a major money-spinner. Pakistan's economy remains in its endless downwards spiral, but it certainly seems there is a lot of money still to be made in televised preaching. They have also tailored their message to the aspiring middle classes. Recently on his show on Haq TV, Tahirul Qadri (and he has gone from being a maulana to Allama to Sheikh-ul-Islam) thundered that religion doesn't stop us from adopting new fashions. You can change your furniture every few years, there is nothing wrong with getting the new car models, but it should all be done in good taste. The man could had have given his lecture on Fashion TV. "But you shall never question the basic tenets of religion," he went on. The implication was clear: you shall never question what he has to say. The message is even clearer: make money, spend it and it'll all turn out to be okay if you keep tuning in to my programme. And the message is being taken seriously by the upper classes of Pakistan. I walked into a new super store in Karachi's Clifton area and was pleasantly surprised to see what looked like a books section. It was a books section indeed, but it was called "Islamic Books Section" and all the books in it were about Islam. I went to a Nike store, and it was no different from any Nike store in any part of the world: over-priced, shiny sneakers and branded football shirts. But in the background instead of the loud gym music, the hallmark of such stores, speakers played recitation from the Quran. The multinational companies, sensing the mood of the people, have also joined the bandwagon. Mobile phone companies offer calls to prayers for ring tones, and Quranic recitations and religious sermons as free downloads. During the month of Ramadan a number of international banks were gifting their preferred clients fancy boxes containing rosaries, dates and miniature Qurans. It's the perfect marriage between God and greed. Traditionally, what a preacher needed was a pulpit. For the pulpit he needed a mosque, and to get to a mosque he needed to do a long apprenticeship in which he had to prove his worth to the community before he could be allowed to sit at that pulpit. With the arrival of satellite TV channels, evangelists provide the most cost-effective programming and, as a result, have found a pulpit in every living room. Even the Sindhi and Seraiki language channels, which were known for their liberal political approach and sufi messages, have found their own evangelists to fill the slots. And their influence has changed our social landscape beyond recognition. Twelve years ago, an old friend from school tried to recruit me into a militant anti-Shia organisation. After dropping out from high school, Zulfikar Ahmad had started a motorcycle garage and joined one of the sectarian organisations that were flourishing in the area. We had a heated discussion over his politics, and I reminded him of a number of common friends who were Shias and were as good or bad Muslims as any of our other classmates. Visibly unconvinced, Zulfikar gave up on me and wished me luck in my godless life. Zulfikar's attempt at converting me was one of the many signs of religious intolerance creeping into our lives. Taliban-ruled neighbouring Afghanistan and many middle class Pakistanis, while enjoying the relative freedoms of a fledgling democracy, hankered for a more puritanical, Taliban-style government. But these zealots, despite their high profile, remained marginal to society as religion was a personal affair, not something you discussed in your drawing room. As I moved back to Pakistan a few months ago, I was overwhelmed by the all pervasive religious symbols in public spaces and theocratic debates raging in the independent media as well as in the drawing rooms of friends and relatives. The graffiti on the walls of Karachi, blood-curdling calls for jihad, adverts for luxury Umrahs are omnipresent. And for those who can't afford to go all the way to Mecca, neighbourhood mosques offer regular lectures and special prayers sessions. I spent the Eid holidays in my village in Punjab and attended prayers at the mosque, which Maulvi Karim used to run. My village folk are very wary of radical mullahs and have appointed an imam who is Maulvi Karim's son and has spent most of his youth in Birmingham. His sermon was probably the most progressive I have ever heard. He advised his male congregation to share household work with their women. He gave examples from Prophet Mohammed's life and said that he used to clean his own room even when he had more than one wife. "You must attend to your stock yourself. It doesn't matter if you have servants, feed your buffaloes," he said. I looked around in amusement, trying to imagine these men, steeped in centuries of male chauvinistic tradition, going home to do their dishes. What puzzled me in the end was that his prayer included get-well-soon wishes for Baitullah Mehsud, who according to local TV channels, was ill. I couldn't reconcile the imam's message for equality of the sexes and his good will for Mehsud, whose crusade against women is as well known as his anti-American jihad. For answers I turned to my old friend Zulfikar. He still sports a long, flowing beard but his conversation is peppered with Punjabi expletives which I found quite refreshing amidst the wall-to-wall piety in my hometown. "I have left all that jihad-against-Shias business behind," he told me. "I have college-going daughters now. Bringing up children in these times is a full-time jihad." He told me that he was worried about the others. "I look as if I am a Taliban supporter but I am not. But these clean-shaven people you see here," he pointed to some clients and workers at his garage, "inside they are all Taliban." He explained that with Pakistan coming under repeated US attacks even people who have voted for moderate political parties are looking towards the Taliban for deliverance. In Karachi, there are frequent warnings that the Taliban are headed this way. There are posters warning us about Talibanisation. Altaf Hussain thunders about them at every single opportunity. But nobody seems to warn us about the preachers who are already here: the ones wagging their fingers on TV always tend to precede the ones waving their guns, smashing those TVs and bombing poor barbers. Preaching is also turning out to be an equal opportunity business. Driving my son to his new school one day, I listened to a woman talking with a posh Urdu accent on a local FM radio. With a generous smattering of English, she was trying to persuade her listeners to dress properly. "When you prepare for a party, how much do you fuss over a dress? You select a piece, then you find something matching, then you have second thoughts. All because you want to look your best at the party. You want to flatter your host. And do you prepare like this when you know that one day very soon you are going to go to the ultimate party, where your host will be Allah?" The speech, we were told, was brought to us by al-Huda Trust, which is located in the upscale Defence Housing Authority and has its own website. Later, I ran into a relative, a mother of two who was wearing jeans and a shirt, and who asked our opinion about her new hairdo. She was fasting, I was not. She quoted me some rules for fasting: situations in which one is allowed not to fast, along with some more injunctions for lapsed ones like myself. When are you going to start wearing the hijab? I asked her jokingly. Probably never, she said. "The Book tells us only to wear something loose, not to draw attention, not to wear anything tight. There are so many rapes, abductions. We must not provoke." "How do you know all this religious stuff?" I asked her. "I have read it in books," she said nonchalantly, as if it was the most normal thing for a liberated working mother to pore over religious texts to decide the length of the hem of her skirt or the size of her blouse. "Where does it say?" I challenged her. "In the Quran. I have read it myself." She started another mini-lecture, which ended with these words: "The point is that Allah doesn't want a woman to draw attention to her bosom." Listening to these preachers, people in Pakistan today seem to believe that God is some kind of lecherous old man who sits there worrying about the size of a woman's blouse while American drones bomb the hell out of the Pashtuns in the North. You can blame the Pashtuns for many things, but no true Pashtun has ever been accused of wearing tight dresses. Pakistan's president, Asif Zardari, stumbling from one crisis to another, has been accused of many things, but nobody has ever accused him of having a political philosophy. He was asked about this a while ago in an interview, and he parroted some clichés about Sindhi Sufi poetry and world peace. "I am a great admirer of Sindhi Sufi poetry," but I doubt Zardari would get very far reciting it to one of the thousands of evangelists unleashed on this hapless nation. Because if Zardari has read Sindhi Sufi poetry – or, for that matter, Punjabi, or Pushto Sufi poetry – he would know that it is full of more warnings about mullahs than all the CIA's country reports lined end-to-end. Sometimes I am also puzzled at my own reactions to these preachers: why do these overt symbols of religion bother me when I myself grew up in a family where prayers, Quran, and rosaries were a part of our everyday life. One reason could be that the kind of religion I grew up with was never associated with suicide bombings and philosophies of world domination. Religion was something you practiced on your own, between meals and going to school. It didn't involve blowing up schools, which seems to be the favourite pastime of Islamist militants in today's Pakistan and something that our televangelists never talk about. Maybe people are just buying into the symbolism as a way of expressing their defiance towards the Pakistan government's policies that many of them see as a mere extension of the US. Maybe, like many other expats, I just hanker for those good old days when saints and sinners, believers and sceptics and preachers and their bored victims could live side by side without killing each other. Mohammed Hanif is the author of A Case of Exploding Mangoes. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 20 19:34:02 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:04:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901191557h10cd7ad2o7ad52f3cb3bb9974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <437361.13830.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir   Thanks for your response.   The news reports posted were from a hurried search and did not presume to tell all stories. There are quite a few other commentaries and 'reportings' available about the continuation of fund raising for "Jihad". The Non-Pakistanis could be put aside with the possibility of being biased or indulging in propaganda. When Pakistanis author such 'reportings' you are told much more than what is being written.      I will not argue over the perspectives you have given. Pertinent though for two reasons is the most recent one quoted about "give us the hides for Jihad". The raising of money for Jihad certainly did not end with the '2002 ban' and even if open placement of 'donation boxes' lessened/ended, other systems for fund raising seem to have continued or innovated.   Rahul pointed out that "...since JUD engages into a lot of charitable activities as well,it can solicit funds openly and then use it for training terrorists."  I tried to make the same point for a vaster scenario of """"Mosques with "Jihadi pulpits" and Madrassas with "Jihadi agendas"  (including the 'donation boxes' on their premises) have automatically been fund raising places for "Jihad"."""""   Yasir, there is enough evidence available (both from reportings and reasonable deductions) that while some Jihadi groups perforce went 'underground', others were 'sent underground and tolerated'. The toleration extended itself to 'same Jihadi wine in new-name organisational bottles'.  Perhaps 'banned by Law' but tolerated/controlled/promoted by the "Pakistani Establishment'.   The "Good Jihadis" are a problem for India. They are obviously thought of as being "good" and useful for Pakistan.    Very frankly, if Pakistan and it's people want to subscribe to Jihad in whatever form they think is Islamic, it is their internal issue. The problem is when they try to Export it to India. Other countries have similar issues with Pakistan.   The bigger concern for me as an Indian, is that this disgusting and convoluted interpretation of Jihad which gets translated into Islamic Terrorism, seems to be corrupting the thinking of some citizens of India who are Muslims. We in India, then have to contend with Hindu Terrorism,  whether as a reaction or as "showing it's head after waiting in hibernation for the right season".   You said that I have ignored the possibility of nationalism/patriotism being the drive for those I referred to as "...'we dont really know how to deal with them Jihadis ' who are sworn enemies of USA and India but could live with a Non-Talibanised Pakistan."  The "tolerated Jihadis" (not tolerant).  I also said that "this category forms the largest group and also reflects the thinking of the majority of Pakistanis." I will now go further and say that these are the overwhelming majority of the citizens of Pakistan.   Is their nationalism/patriotism and Anti-India or Anti-USA passion a "Jihadi" one? Of course it is because it has no rationale behind it other than an Islamic one based on "we Muslims of the world". Some call it the "Pan Islamic" world-view and the associated "Jihad".   If 1971 is blamed by Pakistanis on India, what about the years between 1947 and 1971? What harm had India done to Pakistan? If Kashmir is the issue then it is for the Pakistanis only an Islamic or Muslim issue. Is it something else?   We have had a discussion on this earlier too; when the Text Books for children promote certain recognitions of India and especially Hindus, then it is a pysche against India which is being infused in Pakistanis. 'India' and 'Hindu' is interchangeable for most Pakistanis Hate against Non-Muslims is the drive and not nationalism/patriotism.     Pre USA bombings of Pakistan under the "War on Terror" theatrics, what harm had USA done to Pakistan that it should have been hated so vehemently by the Pakistanis? Because of the Israeli/Palestinian issue? What is that if not an Islamic issue for the Pakistanis?   It is not illogical to expect the nationalism/patriotism of Pakistanis to be Islamic in nature. It is afterall an Islamic Republic and was carved out in the name of Islam. The Pakistani obsession with Islam is understandable. It should not be surprising that most issues are looked at through the Islamic lens and while the State might or might not be interested in or capable of waging Jihad, whenever Pakistan has been involved in 'war', the call is of Jihad. The same holds true for the people of Pakistan too, whether they are killing each other, or killing others (even when banned and underground). It is Jihad. Such is the manner in which Islam has been adopted and propagated in Pakistan.    The progression from the 'hate indoctrination through Text Books' and nurturing by the 'obsession with Islam'  can be seen in Pakistani's referring to Pakistan's Nuclear Capability as the "Islamic Bomb' or "Muslim Bomb" (personally have heard that repeatedly mentioned in discussions on GEO, ARY, PTV-World). That tells you something about the psyche of Pakistanis. That is not nationalism or patriotism.   It is always a pleasure to read your postings Yasir. Best regards.   Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 1/20/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 5:27 AM Dear Kshmendra, underground = not public therefore the statement is exact: "anything since then is underground and not tolerated". if however the breach occurs in parts which are already under rebellion and fighting the state : waziristan (2006 story), or banned outfits who have been locked up and sent to guantanamo (Mush is accused of selling 600 people) - your bad jihadis then that cant be public. infact they were the waziristanis were looting banks in karachi to finance their war against the Pak army & US. that takes care of the waziristan item. The MMA story (2003) is when they were in negotiations with Mush (for money) to okay the LFO legitimizing Mush's Army rule/presidency extension. in any case MMA was a nonstarter as a party coalition and were under army control/maneuvering. this is pure & empty populism in the name of religion. iit is meaningless nonsense. The qurbani hides story is the most recent (2008) and shows how utterly powerless or oblivious the state is at the moment, to the internal groups who may or may not be challenging the state, with their own agenda, like JuD (in Punjab, NWFP and Islamabad.) I agree with zaffar abbas that zardari may not like this happening, but some elements might be sheltering them and their funds. i would not call this 'public' either. this might be the çlosest case', but things are very murky at the moment - what is and is not in govt control. The tensions can be seen in the asia times story (2005) and also in the one sent by Rahul. However to say that this is the norm in parts of punjab, nwfp and islamabad, I will have to check that, although i dont discount it, particularly given elements such as laal masjid in islamabad and groups originating in punjab, and the govt's history. With the current tensions on both borders and in fata, bajaur & swat, no one knows whats happening. as for your curious classification of jihadis: good (anti india), bad (pro-talibanization) and tolerant (anti-US &India, non-talibanization), yes i agree the good is the worst problem, but i dont see anything even close to matching pre-1999 scenario of the jihadis, their open offices, and collection boxes in shops & outfits, and the oppressive gloom and pall over the country - the taliban being supported bt the govt. (pre 9/11). I think we are in civil war at the moment, precisely because of the US theatre in Afghanistan and bombing inside the Pakistan border, and the 60 year-old mutual war rhetoric with India over kashmir. It is in no one's interest that the good, bad or tolerant jihadis win, and that's what hangs over us. the agendas have overtaken the state. the tolerant jihadis cant win, the good cant really be helped unless Kashmir goes away - they can cause mayhem. the bad - children of the US afghan war effort, taken up by the pakistanis - will not back down unless the US goes away and Pakistan Army regrets having bombed them - vow to reduce society to Stone Age - they dont mind being bombed into the Stone age - they are there. Having said that the overall numbers are small. you imply esp in your reference to the tolerant ones, that being anti-US or anti-India amounts to being jihadi. Is that true? at least you dont distinguish nationalism/patriotism from "jihad". If you do i am confident the number in this group, which you say is the largest, will plummet - besides the economic problems are just eating into incomes at the moment - and people do know the futility of war. best yasir On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Yasir > > Having aligned Pakistan with USA in the 'war against terror', Musharraf > could ill-afford the publicly blatant calls for raising money for "Jihad" > that were rampant all over Pakistan. "Jihad" and "Jihadist" could not be > allowed to be the public face of Pakistan. They had to be managed/controlled > for effective use. > > It would be ridiculous to suggest that the 2002 'ban' seriously dented or > completely sent 'underground' the raising of money for Jihad. Igf nothing > else Mosques with "Jihadi pulpits" and Madrassas with "Jihadi agendas" > (including the 'donation boxes' on their premises) have automatically been > fund raising places for "Jihad" > > As some have commentated, Musharraf and 'establishment' (read ISI) sought > to bring about a distinction between "Good Jihadis" (those who were to wage > Jihad against India) and the "Bad Jihadis" (who want Talibisation of > Pakistan). Then there are also the "we dont really know how to deal with > them Jihadis" who are sworn enemies of USA and India but could live with a > Non-Talibanised Pakistan. In my opinion, this category forms the largest > group and also reflects the thinking of the majority of Pakistanis. > > Squeeze on the (never can be eliminated) funding of the "Bad Jihadis" did > not stop the Pakistani Establishment from turning a convienient blind eye to > the raising of funds by the "Good Jihadis" or their operating quite openly > all over Pakistan. They did so not with impunity but with the blessings of > the Pakistani Establishment. > > Your statement "cleaned-up in 2002 ..... anything since then is underground > and not > tolerated" is a non-fact. > > A few reports. All post 2002: > > 1. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC11Df07.html > > In "The jihad lives on" (March 2005), Amir Mir writes: > > "The Lashkar leadership describes Hindus and Jews as the main enemies of > Islam, claiming India and Israel to be the main enemies of Pakistan. The > donation boxes of the Lashkar and the Dawa, which had initially > disappeared after the January 2002 ban, have reappeared in public places, as > well as mosques all over Punjab." > > > > > > " While banning six leading jihadi and sectarian groups in two phases - on > January 12, 2002, and November 15, 2003 - Musharraf had declared that no > organization or person would be allowed to indulge in terrorism to further > its cause. However, after the initial crackdown, the four major jihadi > outfits operating from Pakistan - Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad > (JeM), Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM) and Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM), resurfaced > and regrouped effectively to run their respective networks as openly as > before, though under different names." > > > > "Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, Maulana Masood Azhar, Maulana Fazalur Rehman Khalil > and Syed Salahuddin - the respective leaders of these organizations - are > again on the loose. The pattern of treatment being meted out to these > leading lights of jihad by the Musharraf-led administration shows that they > are being kept on the leash, ostensibly to wage a controlled jihad in Jammu > & Kashmir (J&K)." > > 2. http://www.dawn.com/2003/02/06/nat34.htm > > In the report "Jihad only solution to occupation" (Feb 2003): > > "Despite official ban the JI and Hizbul Mujahideen had set up donation camp > at Khyber Bazaar and distributed pamphlets, carrying Jihadi messages." > > 3. http://www.dawn.com/2006/11/06/top7.htm > > Some relevant extracts from this report (Nov 2006): > > "A Shura (council) of militant groups in the North and South Waziristan > ......appoint a committee to collect donations to finance Mujahideen's > activities." > > > > " "Nobody will be allowed to collect donations and the amount collected as > donation will be utilised for bearing expenses of the activities of > Mujahideen," according to one pamphlet." > > 4. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/14/top9.htm > > Not much is left to imagination in the slogan quoted in this Dec 2008 > report on the collection of the hides of animals sacrificed at the time of > Eid ul Adha: > > " "QURBANI ki khalain un ke liye ... gin ka lahu Islam ke liye" (Hides of > sacrificial animals for those who dedicate/shed their blood for Islam). So > says a bold inscription on a big plastic bag meant for stuffing and carrying > such hides." > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > --- On *Mon, 1/19/09, yasir ~يا سر * wrote: > > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths > about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 3:00 PM > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana > >wrote: > > > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of Pakistan. > > Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were > cleaned up > by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and not > tolerated. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Tue Jan 20 20:03:29 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:03:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009: News Update Message-ID: <311160.72747.qm@web94715.mail.in2.yahoo.com> kabi Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: sukla.sen To: mediainitiative ; INDIATHINKERS ; mahajanapada ; bahujan ; IHRO ; issueonline ; Wake up India ; "india-unity at yahoogroups.com" ; "invitesplus at yahoogroups.com" ; Peace Mumbai ; citizen-mumbai ; international-peace-festival ; Samuhik Khoj ; ecological-democracy Sent: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 12:55:15 PM Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009: News Update [Please visit and sign, if not already done. Sukla] From: Ranjan Kamath Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:15 AM Subject: Cellular Silence Day _ 30th January 2009_ News Update Dear Friends Thank you for spreading the message about Cellular Silence Day 30thJanuary 2009. As I write to you the number of signatures approaches 2500 from small beginnings on the 15th January. Today, it in the top ten of the Most Active campaigns on Petition Online. In the last 24 hours, TATA Sons have issued a legal notice to me, demanding that I remove all reference to Ratan Tata and instructing me to tender an unconditional apology allegedly defamation. While I have sought legal advice, I shall urge Mr Tata to engage in a dialogue wth a fellow citizen about the issue rather than attempt to legally intimidate me with the power and might of TATA Sons. That TATA Sons responded with a legal notice is sufficient proof that even a few thousand committed citizens can send tremors through the portals of India Inc. This is certainly not the last legal missive I shall be receiving before January 30th. Also, no effort is being spared to compromise this petition through fraudulent signatures, impersonations etc. If you do not wish to be updated about the campaign please let me know and I shall exclude you from further updates. thanking you sincerely Ranjan Kamath --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Citizen-Mumbai" group. To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- Get perfect Email ID for your Resume.. Grab now http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 02:35:46 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:05:46 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <437361.13830.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0901191557h10cd7ad2o7ad52f3cb3bb9974@mail.gmail.com> <437361.13830.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901201305w422c1df5i553562782c8567ec@mail.gmail.com> Dear K, see below. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Yasir > > Thanks for your response. > > The news reports posted were from a hurried search and did not presume to > tell all stories. There are quite a few other commentaries and 'reportings' > available about the continuation of fund raising for "Jihad". The > Non-Pakistanis could be put aside with the possibility of being biased or > indulging in propaganda. When Pakistanis author such 'reportings' you are > told much more than what is being written. > > I will not argue over the perspectives you have given. Pertinent though for > two reasons is the most recent one quoted about "give us the hides for > Jihad". The raising of money for Jihad certainly did not end with the '2002 > ban' and even if open placement of 'donation boxes' lessened/ended, > other systems for fund raising seem to have continued or innovated. > > Rahul pointed out that "...since JUD engages into a lot of charitable > activities as well,it can solicit funds openly and then use it for training > terrorists." I tried to make the same point for a vaster scenario of > """"Mosques with "Jihadi pulpits" and Madrassas with "Jihadi agendas" > (including the 'donation boxes' on their premises) have automatically been > fund raising places for "Jihad".""""" > > Yasir, there is enough evidence available (both from reportings and > reasonable deductions) that while some Jihadi groups perforce went > 'underground', others were 'sent underground and tolerated'. The toleration > extended itself to 'same Jihadi wine in new-name organisational > bottles'. Perhaps 'banned by Law' but tolerated/controlled/promoted by the > "Pakistani Establishment'. > I am with you thus far. > > The "Good Jihadis" are a problem for India. They are obviously thought of > as being "good" and useful for Pakistan. > > Very frankly, if Pakistan and it's people want to subscribe to Jihad in > whatever form they think is Islamic, it is their internal issue. The problem > is when they try to Export it to India. Other countries have similar issues > with Pakistan. > I think apart from the irregulars raised time and gain from the tribes, there are no previous instances of any major jihad activity, going back to Syed Ahmed shaheed of Balakot fighting jihad against the mughal emperor or was it ranjit singh [?]. The recent story picks up in 1979 when Zbigniew Brzenski came down to rally the afghan tribes for a jihad against the soviets and launched the call for "jihad" - essentially using the religious call while giving money (to afghans & pakistanis, throw in saudis, iranis, etc) to fight the soviets in Afghanistan. http://eldib.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/interview-of-zbigniew-brzezinski-how-i-started-the-mujahideen-and-the-jihad/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJTv2nFjMBk Without giving a thought to reconstruction or engaging the irregulars in normal activities, as you know aghanistan was left to rot until taliban were able to subdue the others with Pak Army's help and enforce peace. In a nutshell the chicken have come home to roost - the human onslaught following 9-11 in afghanistan has brought the tribes to lock themselves over time into war, like they have done from time immemorial, whether under hindu shahis, against alexander or babur. This is not ending ... and it has spread into pakistan and india too is locked into the knot. 1995 produced the insurgency across the kashmir loc, as you know along the same remote control strategy that had applied to the taliban. > > The bigger concern for me as an Indian, is that this disgusting and > convoluted interpretation of Jihad which gets translated into Islamic > Terrorism, seems to be corrupting the thinking of some citizens of India who > are Muslims. We in India, then have to contend with Hindu > Terrorism, whether as a reaction or as "showing it's head after waiting in > hibernation for the right season". > > I see it as a spill over effect coming from the afghan theatre. the region needs to get its act together ! - i agree its happened. > You said that I have ignored the possibility of nationalism/patriotism > being the drive for those I referred to as "...'we dont really know how to > deal with them Jihadis ' who are sworn enemies of USA and India but could > live with a Non-Talibanised Pakistan." The "tolerated Jihadis" (not > tolerant). I also said that "this category forms the largest group and also > reflects the thinking of the majority of Pakistanis." I will now go further > and say that these are the overwhelming majority of the citizens of > Pakistan. > by tolerant i was translating you : ... Jihadis" who are sworn enemies of USA and India but *could live* with a Non-Talibanised Pakistan" - i guess by 'could live' you mean the population could live with them. ok. as I said throughout history (religious or tribal or most contexts) such a hawkish group has always been there. in the tribal context, you get local knowledge of terrain, etc. but this thinking *cannot *be eliminated - but certainly restrained through better knowledge and socialization into better governance, civic values. religion simly provides a convenient common cover and rallying call. there is no real religious/spiritual movement here - only political stuff. > > Is their nationalism/patriotism and Anti-India or Anti-USA passion a > "Jihadi" one? Of course it is because it has no rationale behind it other > than an Islamic one based on "we Muslims of the world". Some call it the > "Pan Islamic" world-view and the associated "Jihad". > > If 1971 is blamed by Pakistanis on India, what about the years between 1947 > and 1971? What harm had India done to Pakistan? If Kashmir is the issue then > it is for the Pakistanis only an Islamic or Muslim issue. Is it something > else? > my previous comment will suffice. Again the Islamic call is essentially a political ruse. Pakistan has basically tried to challenge indian hegemony in the region, locked as they are from birth with the unresolved Kashmir wound. Plus Pakistan has been insecure from birth, hence the predominance of the army... Kashmir and Palestine are leftovers from decolonization - why are they left unresolved and who is to blame. (In my book its the Partition process/context or even the idea..) Pan-islamism is easy from here. but as the US intervention in aghanistan, iran iraq, egypt shows, anyone can be bought and used, for mutual convenience. so pan-islamism is real and not real too - it is also so irrelevant ( see OIC) ... i am not doubting that people cant be rallied around it - thats what the US did in getting the afghan tribes to fight together against the soviets. but there is no such thing as pure jihad today - its fiction - except in osama's book and those who read it. > > We have had a discussion on this earlier too; when the Text Books for > children promote certain recognitions of India and especially Hindus, then > it is a pysche against India which is being infused in Pakistanis. 'India' > and 'Hindu' is interchangeable for most Pakistanis Hate against > Non-Muslims is the drive and not nationalism/patriotism. > i agree its there - its misused - same answer > > Pre USA bombings of Pakistan under the "War on Terror" theatrics, what harm > had USA done to Pakistan that it should have been hated so vehemently by the > Pakistanis? Because of the Israeli/Palestinian issue? What is that if not an > Islamic issue for the Pakistanis? > there is a lot here - for example one thing is Brezenski's (US Sec of State) intervention in the end of the cold war. The US has systematically intervened in every country in the region and the middle east with much drive - and its earned the wrath of the people - there was a time when everyone just wanted to be american just like in the movies - nobody objects to moving there. see bbc documentary 'power of nightmares' for the kind of argument i am making: http://www.wanttoknow.info/powerofnightmares > > It is not illogical to expect the nationalism/patriotism of Pakistanis to > be Islamic in nature. It is afterall an Islamic Republic and was carved out > in the name of Islam. The Pakistani obsession with Islam is understandable. > It should not be surprising that most issues are looked at through the > Islamic lens and while the State might or might not be interested in or > capable of waging Jihad, whenever Pakistan has been involved in 'war', the > call is of Jihad. The same holds true for the people of Pakistan too, > whether they are killing each other, or killing others (even when banned and > underground). It is Jihad. Such is the manner in which Islam has been > adopted and propagated in Pakistan. > there is a misperception, the country was divided so that *muslims* would be able to live free of hindu domination in muslim dominated provinces, etc - not to create an *islamic* state ( as the relionists argue), as a modern secular country with minorities (very much like israel) - both have not lived up to it and have unresolved religion issues. this is obviously more complex, considering for example if the british had provided security for the region for 30 years after partition, if there had been a common working federation, etc. Your ideas are over exaggerating jihad. as i said it has its uses. the loose groups need to be brought in, restrained etc > > The progression from the 'hate indoctrination through Text Books' and > nurturing by the 'obsession with Islam' can be seen in > Pakistani's referring to Pakistan's Nuclear Capability as the "Islamic Bomb' > or "Muslim Bomb" (personally have heard that repeatedly mentioned in > discussions on GEO, ARY, PTV-World). That tells you something about the > psyche of Pakistanis. That is not nationalism or patriotism. > i disagree. its only political. its only to arouse emotions for outrage that we love to do so much :) it is a disgrace to name a bomb islamic, and to go on this senseless emotional ride - totally irreligious. > > It is always a pleasure to read your postings Yasir. Best regards. > > Kshmendra > i enjoy this useless activity occasionally myself :) best yasir From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 21 07:45:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:15:40 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-68 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901201815h60519499x5d3b3498333c3177@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Ahmedabad/National_I-card_is_NIDs_baby/articleshow/2129810.cms Times if India Ahmedabad National I-card is NID's baby 18 Jun 2007, 0122 hrs IST, Asha Krishna, TNN AHMEDABAD: One of the Central government's most ambitious projects — the multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) — has an Ahmedabad connection. The card, which authenticates details of your birth, address and nationality and has 16 personal details complete with a unique identification number, has been designed by National Institute of Design (NID). "The registrar general and officials of the census ministry approached us to work on MNIC's visual elements. After holding discussions at various levels we finally prepared some eight designs and presented them before the Union home minister," says Pradyumna Vyas, principal designer, faculty of designing, NID. It took the three-member team of Vyas, Rupesh Vyas and Pradeep Nahar two years and fifty designs before they could finalise on the winning combination which aptly defined the purpose of the card. "We had to be extra cautious since the visual elements had to integrate well with the security concerns and also appeal to the user — the Indian citizen," said Rupesh Vyas, co-ordinator, information and digital design. The biggest challenge was to come up with a design reflecting the cultural diversity of the country. "We wanted a neutral colour devoid of any political affiliation. We decided on burgundy since the colour is embedded in our culture, be it the embroidery of Kutch or Kanjeevarams of South India." Accommodating chunks of information without giving it a cluttered look was another challenge. The card has been distributed in selected parts of New Delhi and is all set to be extended to other parts of the country. The MNIC, meant for people aged 18 years and above, it is a means of providing credible individual identification system . From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 21 07:49:35 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:19:35 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-69 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901201819l523ad707j152aa06c458cfb69@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullstory.asp?filename=aFanata0scqzpba6Qa6ua.axamal&folder=aHaoamW&Name=Home&dtSiteDate=20071218 The Himalayan Times KATHMANDU, DECEMBER 18, 2007 India issues Smart Cards to check infiltration Himalayan News Service New Delhi, December 17: The Indian government has introduced Smart Cards to stop infiltration via Uttar Pradesh border adjoining Nepal. Manufactured in Kolkata, the cards are called multi-purpose national identification and are distributed by post office employees in Nautunwa district of UP adjoining Bhairahawa of Nepal. The cards contain details of a person's identity, place of residence and nationality, said project assistant director Pratap Singh. He added that project was envisaged in 2003 and had targeted 20 districts in Uttar Pradesh bordering Nepal. "The post office workers are delivering the cards to people in their homes," said Singh. Nautunwa district, with a population of 4.5 lakh has a sizeable segment of Nepali speaking people. The smart cards that look like ATM debit cards are being distributed among people who have been living in Nautunwa for the last 15 years. They bear the photograph and also fingerprints of the holder. Each card has its own code number. Holders of such cards can avail of medical services and banking facilities on a priority basis. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 21 07:52:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:22:30 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Biometric cards: A great unifier (?) Message-ID: <65be9bf40901201822ge97a4ddv870fcb173c6781c1@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Economy/Policy/Biometric_cards_A_great_unifier/articleshow/4004500.cms The Economic Times Economy Biometric cards: A great unifier 20 Jan 2009, 0354 hrs IST, Shaji Vikraman, ET Bureau Early last year, Morocco decided to make it mandatory to have national identity cards as part of measures to combat terrorism. Within a span of months, over a million biometric identity cards have been issued. These cards encompass certificate of birth, residence and related personal details, besides biometric data on a microchip—all of which makes it eligible to be used as a identity document for travel. Over the next few years, the National Security Service(DSGN) of Morocco plans to issue 20 million such cards to anyone who is over 18 in that kingdom. A majority of countries in the European Union have such smart cards . The US has a social security card while the UK has been pushing for a national identity card. In India, an attempt to launch such a card was aborted over seven years ago. To an extent, the Permanent Account Number (PAN) serves as an identity card although it was originally designed to track all financial transactions over a period of time. India's two depositories—NSDL and CDSL—now issue on an average a million PAN cards a month. Close to 7 crore PAN cards have been issued so far by the depositories on behalf of the income tax department besides 2.5 million cards issued by the department itself. The government has acknowledged that greater tax compliance over the last few years has helped in boosting tax revenues. It is obvious that once almost all financial transactions are covered under PAN, the economic benefits it offers could be humungous. Unlike a tiny African country like Morocco, India has the infrastructure and capabilities to launch a national identity card that could also help provide access to a host of public services. Does the government need to jettison the existing PAN card if it decides in favour of such a card? Not necessarily. All it needs to do is adopt the same numbering structure which the PAN card has for a new identity card and then instruct those holding such cards to go in for biometric data over a period of time. The key would be integrating these numbers with a new identify card. The UK Home Office, which had proposed a national identity card had made it clear that the card would not be designed to store, for instance, tax records or data on ethnic origin or religion. A working group constituted by the revenue department has done enough work on taking the process forward, including the technology and global practices. Some countries have a multi-modal system where not only the facial imagery and finger prints are captured but also the iris. These are not new to India. A few years ago, the securities market regulator made it mandatory for high networth individuals, directors of firms and those working with capital market intermediaries to provide biometric data as part of a programme called MAPIN. Over four lakh people signed up before it was called off by Sebi. There are sensitivities involved in handling any such initiative, which means that policymakers need to be mindful about the fact that basic rights are respected. Some countries that have introduced national ID cards have gone to great lengths to tell their citizens that the cards would store basic information with laws to prevent any potential misuse. Given the volumes in India, the cost of issuing such a card ought to be competitive. An indicative cost for a biometric card to cover over 100 crore citizens may be a little over $2 billion. In other words, the annual expenditure for this card would be close to Rs 2,000 crore for the government, assuming that it takes on the responsibility of underwriting this project. The government should be underwriting the expenses for a national ID card only to those below a cut-off level, say below poverty line. Many of those who have a PAN card should not find it difficult to pay Rs 50 or Rs 60 to convert their existing cards into smart cards. Depositories already have 2,500 centres spread across the country for issuing PAN cards. These can be utilised for the new initiative for ID cards, although the challenge would be to reach those in the hinterland. What the government could do is to work out a time-frame by which a national project to issue such cards would be implemented and subsidise the cost partly for those who deserve it. Home minister P Chidambaram is far more clued to this, having been closely associated with the development of the depositories that are the repositories of data. Given this backdrop, he is very well equipped to take the initiative. From elkamath at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 10:48:16 2009 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:18:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Bangalore Cycling Inclusive Planning Workshop 30, 31 Jan 2009 Message-ID: <106845.56584.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FYI Workshop details can be seen at: http://rideacycle.org/?page_id=53 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pradeep B V wrote: Dear Friends, I hope this email finds you well. RideAcycle Foundation is pleased to invite you to participate in the Bangalore Cycling Inclusive Planning Workshop on the 30th and the 31st of January 2009. The workshop will be held at the KSRTC central office on KH Double Road, Shanthinagar, Bangalore. Cycling Inclusive Planning Workshop Bangalore - Why, What and How WHY Bangalore is a city with progressive transport policies and has institutions like the BMLTA which are focused on integrating land use and transport to make for a more livable city. Yet, Bangalore is plagued by problems of congestion and pollution. In a city of 5.7 million, there are 298 vehicles registered per thousand people, with motorization increasing at 10-20% per annum. However, the private vehicles account for only 38% of the trips in the city - 40% of daily trips by public transport and walking and cycling account for 17% of trips. Traffic studies cite poor condition of pavements (30% of Bangalore's road network is in that shape), low travel speeds (down to 10-12 km/h), high intersection delays, and poor or non-existent parking facilities. Traffic accidents are high at about 50 per 10,000 registered vehicles in Bangalore and Chennai, respectively, with about 800 fatalities per year. High pollution levels have made Bangalore citizens prone to respiratory diseases like asthama. These problems cannot be resolved by traditional supply enhancing short-term measures like road widening, one-way streets and flyovers. There is a need to rethink the entire paradigm of transportation in a manner which is sustainable and inclusive. The first step for that is to encourage and plan for low-energy, less-space consuming and zero-pollution modes like cycling. Bangalore wants to not only be a cycle friendly city, but, be a model for other cities in India to emulate. WHAT The objectives and goals of the workshop are to: 1. Understand the current International and Indian discourses on cycling friendly cities in order to formulate a base awareness of the issues involved, among the various stakeholders 2. To reach an informed consensus together with all stakeholders as to what approach would work best for the city of Bangalore 3. To formulate a base structure for capacity building of the city of Bangalore and outline a plan for inputs needed to make the city self-sufficient to implement plans on cycle inclusive transport systems. 4. To put together an action plan and get commitment from the stakeholders to their roles in its implementation HOW Workshop Design: The first day of the workshop will provide data that will help in the workshop sessions. 1. The video of "cycling friendly cities" outlines the steps taken by various cities in Europe and Latin America to make their cities cycle inclusive. 2. Dr. Geetam Tiwari will present the conclusions of a study which discusses the position of cycling in Asia. This presentation highlights best practices from Asian cities and the trends of cycle use and planning. A thematic focus will highlight the planning, design, health, gender and poverty aspects of cycle inclusive planning in India. 3. Case study presentations on 3 levels of cities in India will be made to highlight methods and practices of cycle inclusive planning in Indian cities. Dr. Tiwari will present the case of Delhi, Sujit Patwardhan, the case of Pune and Pradeep Sachdeva will present the case of Nanded. 4. The next session will focus on the initiatives and context in Bangalore city to set the stage for Bangalore specific needs and approaches 5. A technical session by Dr. Anvita Arora and Dr. Vijay Kovalli will illustrate the specific issues and tools needed to plan for cycling at the road design and operation level. 6. The day will close with a SWOT analysis of the situation of cycling in Bangalore. This will form the basis of creating an action plan the next day The second day of the workshop will focus on Action planning and commitment by the city of Bangalore: 1. The first step will be to identify issues and starting points for different stakeholders. This will be in the form of focused group discussions and presentations on the conclusions reached by the different groups. 2. The second step will be to design a Cycling Action Plan (CAP) for Bangalore city with identification of methods, timelines and people/organizations involved. 3. A Pilot exercise will be identified from that Cycling Action Plan and the roles and commitments of different players will be delineated 4. A final discussion at the end of the day will focus on achieving commitments towards the CAP in general and the Pilot in specific with timelines. If you have any questions please feel free to email me. Sincerely, Pradeep B V RideACycle Foundation www.rideacycle.org Bangalore From rajeshr at csds.in Wed Jan 21 12:56:05 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:56:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture- `Western Secularisation and Globalisation'; Jose Casanova Message-ID: *Friday, 30th January, 2009* Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) cordially invites you to the *13th B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture** * *`Western Secularisation and Globalisation'* By *Professor* *Jose Casanova*** at *5 PM *at the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* * * *José Casanova* is one of the world's leading scholars in the sociology of religion. Professor at the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at Georgetown University, he also heads the Berkley Center's Program on Globalisation, Religion and the Secular. He has published works in a broad range of subjects, including religion and globalisation, migration and religious pluralism, transnational religions, and sociological theory. His best-known work, *Public Religions in the Modern World* (University of Chicago Press, 1994), has become a modern classic in the field. Professor Casanova has taught at the New School for Social Research from 1987 to 2007, where he occupied numerous distinguished positions including Chair of the Sociology Department and of the Committee on Historical Studies. In addition to his primary appointments, he has held visiting academic positions at New York University, at the Harriman Institute of Columbia University, at the Institut für die Wissenschaften vom Menschen in Vienna, at the Bellagio Center of the Rockefeller Foundation, at the Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin and at the Central European University in Budapest. His most recent research has focused primarily on two areas: globalisation and religion, and the dynamics of transnational religion, migration, and increasing ethno-religious and cultural diversity. In studying religion and globalisation, his research has adopted an ambitious comparative perspective that includes Catholicism, Pentecostalism and Islam within its scope. His work on transnational migration and religion explores the incorporation of minorities and the construction of transnational networks, identities and structures. *B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lectures* are instituted in memory of the distinguished economist-intellectual Professor B.N. Ganguli, former Chair, CSDS Board of Governors. Earlier speakers in the series include Professors Charles Taylor, Rodolfo Stavenhagen, Raimundo Panikkar, Bhikhu Parekh, Ernest Gellner, Ali Mazrui, Roberto Unger, Michael Walzer, John Keane, Amit Bhaduri, Giorgio Agamben and Bina Agarwal. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 14:20:31 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:50:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Looking back on the caste system - Justice Katju (Part 1 of 2) Message-ID: <452640.15500.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Looking back on the caste system Markandey Katju   (India’s caste system had its roots in race and later developed into an occupational division of labour in tune with the needs of a feudal society. But what lies ahead for it?)   The caste system is one of the greatest social evils plaguing India today. It is acting as a powerful social and political divisive force at a time when it is essential for us to stay united in order to face the challenges before our nation. It is a curse that must be speedily eradicated if we wish to progress.   We may consider a few facts to realise how strongly caste is still entrenched in our society:   — Our politics is largely governed by caste vote banks. When the time comes to select candidates for elections, a study is made of the numerical caste distribution in a constituency, because voters in most areas vote on caste lines;   — What to say of illiterate people, even the so-called intellectuals tend to operate on caste lines. Thus, in the elections to many bar associations, lawyers tend to vote for candidates of their caste;   — Many castes want to be declared Other Backward Classes (OBCs) or Scheduled Castes in order to get the benefits of reservation. Even some OBCs strive to be declared the Most Backward Castes (MBCs) or Scheduled Castes;   — Fake caste certificates have become rampant, as is often witnessed in our law courts, to secure jobs, or admission to educational institutions;   — Marriages are still largely performed within one’s caste;   — Violence often occurs between castes, as was noticed in a recent fight between students of different castes in a law college in Chennai, while policemen looked on as silent spectators;   — Even Muslims, Christians and Sikhs often have caste divisions, although their religions preach equality.   We can multiply these facts manifold. Many books and articles have been written on the caste system in India but a scientific study is still to be done. An attempt is made here to explain the origin, development and future of the caste system.   Origins The origin of the caste system was in all probability racial. It is said that caste originated when a white race, the Aryans, coming from the northwestern direction, conquered the dark coloured races inhabiting India at that time, probably 5000 or so years ago.   Some people deny that the Aryans came from outside India and assert that India was their original home (Aryavarta) from where a section of them migrated to Europe. It is difficult to accept this view because people migrate from uncomfortable areas to comfortable areas (see the article ‘Kalidas Ghalib Academy for Mutual Understanding’ in www.kgfindia.com).  Why should anyone have migrated from a comfortable country like India which had level and fertile land ideal for agriculture to a place like Afghanistan or Russia which was cold and mountainous and therefore uncomfortable? Indian history bears out the view that almost all invasions and immigrations were from outside India, mainly from the northwestern direction and to a lesser extent from the northeastern direction, into India.   The caste system is called the varna vyavastha and the word varna in Sanskrit means colour (of the skin). This also points to the racial origin of the caste system. Fair skin colour is usually preferred over darker skin even today, as is evident from many matrimonial advertisements.   Subsequent development While the caste system thus appears to have racial origins, it subsequently developed an altogether different basis in tune with the needs of the feudal society. In other words, the caste system, though it originated in race, subsequently developed into the feudal, occupational division of labour in society. This needs to be explained in some detail.   In theory there were only four castes: Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. This, however, was only a piece of fiction. In reality there were (and still are) hundreds, if not thousands, of castes and sub-castes in India, many of which do not fit into the four traditional castes. For example, there are Yadavs, Kurmis, Jats, Kayasthas, Bhumihars and Gosains. Every vocation became a caste. Thus, in northern India badhai (carpenter) became a caste, as did lohar (blacksmith), sonar (goldsmith), kumbhar (potter), dhobi (washerman), nai (barber), darzi (tailor), kasai (butcher), mallah (fisherman), kewat (boatman), teli (oil presser), kahar (water carrier), and gadadia (sheep herder).   This was not unique to India. For instance, in England even today there are many people with the surnames Taylor, Smith, Goldsmith, Baker, Butcher, Potter, Barber, Mason, Carpenter, Turner, Waterman, Shepherd, and Gardener which indicate that their ancestors followed those professions.   In a feudal society, apart from agriculture the handicraft industry also developed. This happened in India, too, and the caste system became the Indian variation of the feudal occupational division of labour in society, somewhat like the medieval European guild system.   As Adam Smith wrote in The Wealth of Nations, division of labour results in great progress. The caste system in India resulted in great development of the productive forces. Hence in the feudal age it was a progressive institution, as compared to the slave society that preceded it.   It is well known that before the coming of the British, India was one of the world’s most prosperous countries of that time. India was exporting Dacca muslin, Murshidabad silk, Kashmir shawls and carpets, ornaments, and so on, apart from agricultural products such as spices and indigo to the Middle East and even Europe. The discovery of Roman coins in several parts of South India point to a great volume of trade with India, which shows the considerable development of productive forces in feudal India. In fact, India was once a superpower with a 31.5 per cent share in global production, which came down to 3 per cent by 1991.   Destruction of handicraft industry It is estimated that before the coming of the British to India, about 40 per cent of the population of India was engaged in industry and the rest in agriculture. This industry was no doubt the handicraft industry, not the mill industry. Nevertheless, there was a very high level of production of goods in India by these handicraft industries, and many of these goods were exported to Europe, the Middle East, China and so on.   A rough and ready test of the level of economic development of a country relates to the percentage of the population that is engaged in industry and agriculture respectively. The greater the percentage in industry and the lesser in agriculture the more prosperous a country will be. Thus, the United States, the most prosperous country in the world today, has only about 2 to 3 per cent of its population in agriculture, while the rest is in industry or services.   India was a relatively prosperous country before the coming of the British because a high percentage of the people (which could be up to 40 per cent) was engaged at that time in industry. Thus, Lord Clive around 1757 (the year of the Battle of Plassey) described Murshidabad, then the capital of Bengal, as a city more prosperous than London (Glimpses of World History, Jawaharlal Nehru, Third Impression, Page 416, chapter titled ‘The Indian artisan goes to the wall’).   When the British conquered India, they introduced the products of their mill industry into India and raised export duties on Indian handicraft products exorbitantly. Thus they practically destroyed the handicraft industry in India. The result was that by the end of British rule hardly 10 per cent or even less of the population of India was in the handicraft industry. The rest of those who were earlier engaged in the industry were rendered unemployed. This way those who were employed in the handicraft industry, accounting for about 30 per cent of the population of India, became unemployed. They were driven to starvation, destitution, beggary or crime: the thugs and ‘criminal’ tribes were really these unemployed sections of society. As an English Governor General wrote in 1834, “the bones of the cotton weavers are bleaching the plains of India.”   (Justice Markandey Katju is a Judge of the Supreme Court of India. This is the first part of a two-part article.) © Copyright 2000 - 2008 The Hindu         http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/08/stories/2009010853480800.htm   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 14:25:03 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:55:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Why the caste system is on its last legs - Justice Katju (Part 2 of 2) Message-ID: <157745.83786.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Why the caste system is on its last legs Markandey Katju   (This institution did good to India in feudal times but today it is a curse that should be eradicated. Indeed it will stand effaced in a decade or two, for its basis has been destroyed.)   At the end of British rule, India, which was once one of the world’s most prosperous countries, became one of the poorest. It was unable to feed itself. Its industrial development was stalled as the British policy was to not permit industrialisation (see Rajni Palme Dutt’s India Today). Life expectancy was low and the literacy rate was very low. As Angus Madison, the Cambridge University historian, points out, India’s share of world income fell from 22.6 per cent in 1700 to 3.8 per cent in 1952.   In the revenue records in many Indian States one often finds entries of this sort: ‘A, son of B, caste lohar (smith), vocation agriculture,’ or ‘C, son of D, caste badhai (carpenter), vocation agriculture,’ or ‘E, son of F, caste kumhar (potter), vocation agriculture,’ and so on. This indicates that their ancestors were in those professions, but later they became unemployed (although ostensibly they were shown as agriculturists). British mill industry had destroyed their handicraft.   In England and other European countries, too, handicrafts were destroyed by mill products, but the handicraftsmen got employment in the mills.   Handicraft industry & mill industry Some people think that if the British had not come to India an indigenous mill industry would have developed in India, because the development of the handicraft industry leads to capital accumulation which is the prerequisite for industrialisation, and India would have become an industrial state by the 19th century, as in the case of countries of North America and Europe. But it is not necessary to dwell on this: there is no use crying over spilt milk.   In the feudal period there were no engineering colleges or technical institutes, and the only way to learn a craft was to sit with one’s father from childhood and learn the craft by seeing how he worked, with some tips from him. Thus the father was not only doing the production work through his craft but also teaching his son the craft.   This was totally unlike modern times where the teacher in an engineering college or technical institute is not a producer engaged in some industry. In other words, in modern times the vocation of a teacher is separated from the vocation of a producer. There was no such separation in the feudal age.   In feudal times, one had no choice with respect to one’s profession: you had to follow your father’s profession. Thus, the son of a carpenter (badhai) became a carpenter, the son of a blacksmith (lohar) became a blacksmith, and so on. This way, carpenter, blacksmith, potter, all became castes. The same thing happened in Europe in feudal times.   Modern mill industry In the modern industrial age the demand for skilled technical personnel is much more than in the feudal age, because the demand for goods is much more owing to increase in population and other factors. Hence the traditional feudal method of teaching a craft, in which only a handful of persons (usually the sons of handicraftsman) were taught, would no longer suffice for modern society. Now technical institutes or engineering colleges, where a large number of students are taught technical skills, have become necessary. Obviously all these students could not be sons of the teacher. This destroyed the very basis of the caste system in which one had no option in choosing one’s vocation and had to follow one’s father’s profession. The caste system, in which one’s vocation is chosen by one’s birth, is thus totally outmoded in the modern age.   Today a boy of the badhai (carpenter) caste comes from a rural area to a city where he becomes an electrician or a motor mechanic or takes up some other vocation. If he gets some education he becomes a clerk or even a doctor, lawyer, engineer or teacher. He does not usually follow his father’s profession. This has largely destroyed the basis of the caste system economically.   The caste system is now being artificially propped up socially by some vested interests, for example, vote bank politics. But when the basis of an institution has been destroyed (by the advance of technology) how long can that institution survive? To my mind, the caste system in India will not last for more than 10 or 20 years from now because its very basis has gone.   A modern mill no longer bothers about the caste of a worker it employs, and only sees his or her technical skills. The caste system was a social institution corresponding to the handicraft industry. Now that the handicraft industry has largely been replaced by mill industry, the caste system has become totally outmoded, and is hindering our progress. The sooner it is destroyed the better.   Was it bad for India? Many people think the caste system did a lot of damage to India. This is undoubtedly true of modern times. But in the feudal age the system did good to India because it corresponded to the feudal occupational division of labour in society, as pointed out above, which resulted in the development of productive forces at that time.   It is a myth that today’s Scheduled Castes were always treated with indignity. In fact, up to the coming of British rule the members of these castes were usually in some handicraft vocation and were earning their livelihood from that vocation. It was only when the British mill industry destroyed their handicraft and they became unemployed that they began to be treated with indignity. An unemployed man becomes a poor man, and a poor man is not given respect in society.   For instance, the chamars were at one time a respectable caste because they earned their livelihood by doing leather work. It was only when large companies destroyed their handicraft, and thereby their livelihood, that they sank in the social ladder, so much so that today to call a person a chamar is often regarded as an insult (see the judgment of the Supreme Court in Swaran Singh & Ors. vs. State through Standing Counsel & Anr. [2008(8) SCC 435, JT 2008(9) SC 60]).   Similarly, other castes whose handicraft occupations were destroyed by the British mill industry became unemployed and thereby fell in the social order.   How will the caste system be destroyed? To my mind, the caste system will be destroyed (and is in fact being destroyed) in India by the advance of technology, through people’s struggles, and inter-caste marriages.   As regards the advance of technology, it has been pointed out above that in a modern industrial society the division of labour cannot be on the basis of one’s birth but on the basis of technical skills. Hence industrialisation destroys the caste system. In fact, the caste system has become weak in a State such as West Bengal, which was partially industrialised before most other States.   As regards people’s struggles, these are in fact going on everywhere in view of the harsh economic conditions in India (marked by price rise, unemployment, and so on). People in India are realising that united they stand and divided they fall, and that caste is certainly a dividing force.   As regards inter-caste marriages, I have stated in my judgment in Lata Singh vs. State of U.P. [2006(5) SCC 475, JT 2006(6) SC 173], that they are in the national interest and hence should be encouraged.   (Justice Markandey Katju is a Judge of the Supreme Court of India. The first part of this article was published yesterday.)   © Copyright 2000 - 2008 The Hindu     http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/09/stories/2009010953161000.htm From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 14:28:16 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:58:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is caste an economic development vehicle? - Gurumurthy critiques Justice Katju Message-ID: <733733.36707.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Is caste an economic development vehicle? S. Gurumurthy   (Traditional caste, by reorienting itself, seems to be handling modernity well. It is modernity that appears clueless as to how to handle caste.)   In his two articles in The Hindu (Jan. 8 and 9, 2009), Justice Markandey Katju has brilliantly articulated what was once the colonial — now, the modern — view on ‘caste.’ He asserts, like most do, that caste is a “social evil,” “divisive,” and “a curse” that must be ‘eradicated’ if India is “to prosper.” Yet he concedes that, despite its suspected racial origin, caste had done good to India by helping in work specialisation, which had made India an economic super power till CE 1700. But, he says, it is an old story, and the British advent has changed all that. Asking “could India have developed like North America and Europe had the British not come?” he answers: “there is no use crying over spilt milk.” He is now relieved that the evil of caste is being destroyed by technology, people’s struggles, and inter-caste marriages.   In sum, Justice Katju accepts the western anthropological view of Indian society. But setting out to validate the western view, the Dravidian and Dalit movements actually ended up repudiating it. For it is the very caste that such movements fought to snuff out that finally became the vehicle for their assertion, surprisingly proving the old saying, “vishasya visham oushadam,” that is, if caste were poison, it is its cure too. Justice Katju, like most scholars — social, economic and political — seems confused about how to handle the ’traditional’ caste in ’modern’ times. While they see it as an evil in politics, here is a different view of caste that brings out its positive role in market economics, that is, caste as ’modern’ development — yes, modern economic development — vehicle.   Popular Indian socio-economic discourse today seems to be not fully familiar with the emerging phenomenon of ‘social capital’ — an area of study where culture and economics confluence. Francis Fukuyama, who authored the first bible of globalisation (The End of History and the Last Man) and made individualism, the free market, and liberal democracy demigods, wrote his next book Trust in which, on rethinking, he captured culture as the “20 per cent missing element” of economics. As contrasted with individualism-dominated societies, he says, relation-based societies generate culturally defined social capital. Social capital is non-formal networking based on kinship within societies. The emerging view is that social capital expedites the socio-economic development process.   Fukuyama had missed out India, therefore caste, as India was not worth noticing when he wrote the book Trust. But contemporary writers and modern minds like Gurcharan Das and Swaminathan Ankilesaria Aiyar in India did not miss that out what Fukuyama had. They perceive caste as a potential engine of growth and development. Swaminathan Aiyar saw it as the social capital of India. That Justice Katju seems to be unaware of the empirical evidence of caste as a development vehicle in economics is evident from his remark that “a scientific study’ on caste ’is yet to be done.”   Caste is a very strong bond. While individuals are related by families, castes link the families. Castes transcended the local limits and networked the people across. This has prevented the disturbance that industrialism caused to neighbourhood societies in the West, resulting in unbridled individualism and acute atomisation. In independent India, a contradiction has developed between the individualism-centric Constitution and caste collectives. Caste-based politics has actually helped to harmonise this contradiction between the formal Constitution and the non-formal social architecture. In a sense, caste-based politics mediates between traditional society and the modern state in India. Yet it can still be argued that the caste element in politics is not desirable. But caste in economics is a positive drive of development. Read on.   The caste system, which was admittedly savvy with economics over millennia, has in modern times engaged the market in economics and democracy in politics to reinvent itself. It has become a great source of entrepreneurship. Studies show that the castes-based industrial clusters lead the nation’s industrial development. A UNIDO study (1997) shows that out of the 370 small scale industrial clusters and 2600 artisan-based clusters, which generated 70 per cent of India’s industrial output, 66 per cent of exports, and 40 per cent of employment, only 13 were government-sponsored. The rest had evolved out of the caste/community-based network.   Take the case of backward castes. The entrepreneurship generated by the Patel caste today dominates two-thirds of the global diamond trade. The Nadar caste runs over three-fourths of the retail trade, match works, and fireworks in Tamil Nadu. In Tirupur, Goundar caste entrepreneurs, 80 per cent of whom are not even matriculates, compete at the global level, exporting knitwear garments valued at over $2 billion. The World Development Report 2001 found that the social networking within the Goundar caste and the circulation of capital by trust had enabled Tirupur’s rise as a global knitwear hub. In Sankagiri and Namakkal in Tamil Nadu, Goundar caste entrepreneurs own the largest fleet of lorry, tanker, and tipper transport vehicles in the whole of India. Ninety per cent of them were farmers earlier and 20 per cent were just rearing cattle. The list is too long to be captured here.   An empirical study was conducted in some 25 caste-based industrial clusters in different places in India by a team of academics and professionals trained in modern business under the aegis of the Tamil Nadu Swadeshi Academic Council. It showed that whether it is the Jatavs of Agra and Kanpur, or the Nadars, Naidus, or Goundars of Tamil Nadu, or the Patels of Gujarat, or the artisan Ramgadiyas of Punjab, they have risen as competent entrepreneurs – many at the global level – mostly by leveraging on their kinship-based social capital. Most of them have had very little education. It is the community that has acted as the knowledge provider thorough kinship and social network.   More information on the caste-based growth model is available in the book Indian Models of Economy, Business and Management [Prentice-Hall of India 2008] by P. Kanagasabapathi who was part of the Swadeshi Academic Council team. A recent book by Harish Damodaran, India’s New Capitalists: Caste, Business, and Industry in a Modern Nation (Palmgrave Macmillan) also points to the evolution of caste as a development vehicle. A study of unregistered small and tiny enterprises by the National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO) in 2005 showed that there were over 42 million such units, out of which 45 per cent were owned by backward castes, scheduled castes, and scheduled tribes. These 42 million units provided the largest employment outside agriculture, engaging 90 million hands, and growing at an annual rate 2.6 per cent during 1990-98. So caste is turning into social capital in the market economy, and emerging as an open air university for entrepreneurship.   To conclude, traditional caste, by reorienting itself, seems to be handling modernity well. It is modernity that appears clueless as to how to handle caste. The modern elites see caste as a political nuisance. But they seem to be unaware that its perceived nuisance in politics can be mitigated by promoting the economic potential of caste. Elite India’s dilemma about caste seems to be outdated.   (The writer is a political and economic commentator and a corporate consultant. His email id is guru at gurumurthy.net )   © Copyright 2000 - 2008 The Hindu   http://www.thehindu.com/2009/01/19/stories/2009011955440900.htm From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 15:01:52 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:31:52 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901201832m3a1ad8ceydb67f7c2322cff3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901190724v67be8cb2r2f60bf11aa214e91@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901191624u79545aa1t87109d864a70bb07@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901201832m3a1ad8ceydb67f7c2322cff3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901210131y3bd7055apf22ba61977e1f030@mail.gmail.com> no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on language/s in pakistan some movie posters for you : http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ and http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr acc., the posters are a > real treat, not much different from those that are printed in India though > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq Rehman saheb write some > book on posters too? > > T > From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Jan 21 15:40:18 2009 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:40:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Are you an Al Badr militant? Message-ID: <1fd66c110901210210o2d62b398m44931aea3295972d@mail.gmail.com> CBI irked by special cell for framing 2 informers as terrorists http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/CBI_irked_by_special_cell_for_framing_2_informers_as_terrorists/articleshow/3932712.cms Fresh probe needed against two suspected terrorists: Delhi Police http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/fresh-probe-needed-against-two-suspected-terrorists-delhi-police_100137929.html CBI, Special Cell in row over terror suspects http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/cbi-special-cell-in-row-over-terror-suspects/406335/ CBI for discharge of two alleged Al-Badar terrorists http://www.samaylive.com/news/cbi-for-discharge-of-two-alleged-albadar-terrorists/604410.html Police official hampering probe, CBI tells court http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/police-official-hampering-probe-cbi-tells-court_100141970.html Special Cell threatening officer: CBI http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/special-cell-threatening-officer-cbi/410828/ Court to hear two probe agencies in framing youths as terrorists http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/court-to-hear-two-probe-agencies-in-framing-youths-as-terrorists_100143857.html From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 15:49:40 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:19:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901210131y3bd7055apf22ba61977e1f030@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20377.82629.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> >From the links provided by Yasir, was led to http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) posters: - Market Girl - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast - Scheming Nasty - Maula Jat rides again - Blood lusting Noor - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind - Bad hair day - Blow em away, Baby! - Beauty oblivious to the beast - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda - all dressed up and nowhere to go - well if it ain't Joe Cool - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame - Time for a little frolic - one party too many! - coochie coo - Vamire Hooker - Wehshi Jat - flop remake - The Beast in Heat! - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk - Chaudhry's Angels - Bad Girl Rani KK --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on > language/s in > pakistan > > some movie posters for you : > > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ > > and > > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr > acc., the posters are a > > real treat, not much different from those that are > printed in India though > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq > Rehman saheb write some > > book on posters too? > > > > T > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From mrc.jamia at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 11:49:54 2009 From: mrc.jamia at gmail.com (James Beveridge Media Resource Centre) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:49:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] JB MRC Junior Research Fellowships: Call for proposals Message-ID: <77d16f8f0901192219n25add500x5b6b2a6d32e09f8f@mail.gmail.com> JAMES BEVERIDGE MEDIA RESOURCE CENTRE AJK Mass Communication Research Centre Jamia Millia Islamia CALL FOR PROPOSALS The JB MRC, AJK MCRC announces its second round of independent fellowships for the period March 1, 2009 – August 31, 2009. Applications are invited for the Junior Research Fellowships. ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA: 1. The application and research proposal should be in English. 2. The proposed research should have a strong theoretical component that engages with the debates in the broad disciplines of Photography, Cinema, Media or Cultural Studies. 3. Applicants must be enrolled for a research degree (MPhil or PhD) from an Indian University. 4. They must be residing in India and should have an account in a bank operating in India. 5. They must be PAN card holders or should have applied for a PAN at the time of being awarded the Fellowship. CONDITIONS FOR THE AWARD OF THE FELLOWSHIPS: 1. The Fellowship will carry a monthly award of Rs. 7,500/-. 2. The Fellowship will run for a six month period from March 2009 to August 2009. 3. The fellows will be required to have a mentor preferably in their institution who will guide them with their research work. 4. Partners, groups and collectives can apply for a single fellowship. The award will be payable to the account of any one representative. 5. Fellowship recipients cannot be recipients of any other grant or fellowship during the same period. 6. The fellows will be required to submit bi-monthly progress reports on their research work to the JB MRC and present their research findings in a seminar at the end of the fellowship period. They will also have to submit a final research paper/report of their work to the JB MRC. 7. The primary materials collected as part of the grant must be submitted to the JB MRC at the end of the fellowship period. This should preferably be in a digital form: as CDs, DVDs, scans, digital images etc. 8. The copyright for the research work and the primary material generated in the course of the research will be shared by the JB MRC and the research fellow. The JB MRC may undertake the publication of certain research findings as monographs. The fellow is free to publish the material elsewhere, but the support of the JB MRC will have to be acknowledged in any such publications and prior notification given to the JB MRC. HOW TO APPLY: Applications should be marked JB MRC Junior Research Fellowship Proposal to be sent through post or in person to: Ramesh Kumar Programme Officer James Beveridge Media Resource Centre AJK Mass Communication Research Centre Jamia Millia Islamia New Delhi 110025 (Electronic applications will not be accepted) The application should include the following: 1. A cover letter clearly mentioning the name, email address, telephone number and postal address 2. Research proposal 3. Writing sample 4. Work plan 5. CV 6. Two letters of recommendation Deadline: February 20, 2009 Inquiries: mrc.jamia at gmail.com or 011-26981717, Ext-4109 ABOUT JB MRC: The James Beveridge Media Resource Centre, which has been set up with a grant from the Sir Ratan Tata Trust (SRTT), is devoted to the study, research and contemplation of contemporary media praxis with a special focus on Asian Cinemas and Documentary Films. It houses curated film collections in addition to journals, books, monographs and catalogues. Locating itself at the intersection of theory and practice, it conducts courses, offers fellowships, organizes public lectures, conferences, seminars, workshops and special screenings. It works towards complementing the hands-on learning experience at the AJK MCRC by creating an intellectually vibrant space for theoretical engagement, research and study. From lawrence.auster at att.net Tue Jan 20 21:31:01 2009 From: lawrence.auster at att.net (Lawrence Auster) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:01:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] The problem with intellectually insecure whites -- Jewish Involvement in Black American Affairs Message-ID: <20090120160114.CA0462C48007@mail.sarai.net> The problem with intellectually insecure whites By Kevin MacDonald January 19, 2009 America will soon have a white minority. This is a much desired state of affairs for the hostile elites who hold political power and shape public opinion. But it certainly creates some management issues � at least in the long run. After all, it�s difficult to come up with an historical example of a nation with a solid ethnic majority (90% white in 1950) that has voluntarily decided to cede political and cultural power. Such transformations are typically accomplished by military invasions, great battles, and untold suffering. And it�s not as if everyone is doing it. Only Western nations view their own demographic and cultural eclipse as a moral imperative. Indeed, as I have noted previously, it is striking that racial nationalism has triumphed in Israel at the same time that the Jewish intellectual and political movements and the organized Jewish community have been the most active and effective force for a non-white America. Indeed, a poll in 2008 found that Avigdor Lieberman was the second most popular politician in Israel. Lieberman has advocated expulsion of Arabs from Israel and has declared himself a follower of Vladimir Jabotinsky, the leading pioneer of racial Zionism. The most popular politician in the poll was Benjamin Netanyahu � another admirer of Jabotinsky. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni are also Jabotinskyists. The racial Zionists are now carrying out yet another orgy of mass murder after a starvation-inducing blockade and the usual triggering assault designed to provoke Palestinian retaliation � which then becomes the cover for claims that Israel is merely defending itself against terrorism. This monstrosity was approved by overwhelming majorities of both Houses of Congress. The craven Bush administration did its part by abstaining from a UN resolution designed by the US Secretary of State as a result of a personal appeal by the Israeli Prime Minister. This is yet another accomplishment of the Israel Lobby, but one they would rather not have discussed in public. People might get the impression that the Lobby really does dictate US foreign policy in the Mideast. Obviously, such thoughts are only entertained by anti-Semites. But I digress. In managing the eclipse of white America, one strategy of the mainstream media is to simply ignore the issue. Christopher Donovan (�For the media, the less whites think about their coming minority status, the better�) has noted that the media, and in particular, the New York Times, are quite uninterested in doing stories that discuss what white people think about this state of affairs. It�s not surprising that the New York Times � the Jewish-owned flagship of anti-white, pro-multicultural media � ignores the issue. The issue is also missing from so-called conservative media even though one would think that conservatives would find the eclipse of white America to be an important issue. Certainly, their audiences would find it interesting. Now we have an article �The End of White America� written by Hua Hsu, an Assistant Professor of English at Vassar College. The article is a rather depressing display of what passes for intellectual discourse on the most important question confronting white people in America. Hsu begins by quoting a passage in F. Scott Fitzgerald�s The Great Gatsby in which a character, Tom Buchanan, states: �Have you read The Rise of the Colored Empires by this man Goddard?� � Well, it�s a fine book, and everybody ought to read it. The idea is if we don�t look out the white race will be�will be utterly submerged. It�s all scientific stuff; it�s been proved.� Buchanan�s comment is a thinly veiled reference to Lothrop Stoddard�s The Rising Tide of Color which Hsu describes as �rationalized hatred� presented in a scholarly, gentlemanly, and scientific tone. (This wording that will certainly help him when he comes up for tenure.) As Hsu notes, Stoddard had a doctorate from Harvard and was a member of many academic associations. His book was published by a major publisher. It was therefore �precisely the kind of book that a 1920s man of Buchanan�s profile � wealthy, Ivy League�educated, at once pretentious and intellectually insecure � might have been expected to bring up in casual conversation.� Let�s ponder that a bit. The simple reality is that in the year 2009 an Ivy League-educated person, "at once pretentious and intellectually insecure," would just as glibly assert the same sort of nonsense as Hsu. To wit: The coming white minority does not mean that the racial hierarchy of American culture will suddenly become inverted, as in 1995�s White Man�s Burden, an awful thought experiment of a film, starring John Travolta, that envisions an upside-down world in which whites are subjugated to their high-class black oppressors. There will be dislocations and resentments along the way, but the demographic shifts of the next 40 years are likely to reduce the power of racial hierarchies over everyone�s lives, producing a culture that�s more likely than any before to treat its inhabitants as individuals, rather than members of a caste or identity group. The fact is that no one can say for certain what multicultural America without a white majority will be like. There is no scientific or historical basis for claims like �the demographic shifts of the next 40 years are likely to reduce the power of racial hierarchies over everyone�s lives, producing a culture that�s more likely than any before to treat its inhabitants as individuals, rather than members of a caste or identity group.� Indeed, there is no evidence at all that we are proceeding to a color blind future. The election results continue to show that white people are coalescing in the Republican Party, while the Democrats are increasingly the party of a non-white soon-to-be majority. Is it so hard to believe that when this coalition achieves a majority that it will further compromise the interests of whites far beyond contemporary concerns such as immigration policy and affirmative action? Hsu anticipates a colorblind world, but affirmative action means that blacks and other minorities are certainly not treated as individuals. And it means that whites � especially white males � are losing out on opportunities they would have had without these policies and without the massive non-white immigration of the last few decades. Given the intractability of changing intelligence and other traits required for success in the contemporary economy, it is unlikely that 40 more years of affirmative action will attain the outcomes desired by the minority lobbies. Indeed, in Obama's America, blacks are rioting in Oakland over perceived racial injustices, and from 2002 �2007, black juvenile homicide victims increased 31%, while black juvenile perpetrators increased 43%. Hence, the reasonable outlook is for a continuing need for affirmative action and for racial activism in these groups, even after whites become a minority. Whites will also lose out because of large-scale importation of relatively talented immigrants from East Asia. Indeed, as I noted over a decade ago, "The United States is well on the road to being dominated by an Asian technocratic elite and a Jewish business, professional, and media elite." Hsu shows that there already is considerable anxiety among whites about the future. An advertizing executive says, �I think white people feel like they�re under siege right now � like it�s not okay to be white right now, especially if you�re a white male. ... People are stressed out about it. �We used to be in control! We�re losing control�� Another says, "There�s a lot of fear and a lot of resentment." It's hard to see why these feelings won't increase in the future. A huge problem for white people is lack of intellectual and cultural confidence. Hsu quotes Christian (Stuff White People Like) Lander saying, "I get it: as a straight white male, I�m the worst thing on Earth." A professor comments that for his students "to be white is to be culturally broke. The classic thing white students say when you ask them to talk about who they are is, �I don�t have a culture.� They might be privileged, they might be loaded socioeconomically, but they feel bankrupt when it comes to culture � They feel disadvantaged, and they feel marginalized." This lack of cultural confidence is no accident. For nearly 100 years whites have been subjected to a culture of critique emanating from the most prestigious academic and media institutions. And, as Hsu points out, the most vibrant and influential aspect of American popular culture is hip-hop�a product of the African American urban culture. The only significant group of white people with any cultural confidence centers itself around country music, NASCAR, and the small town values of traditional white America. For this group of whites � and only this group � there is "a racial pride that dares not speak its name, and that defines itself through cultural cues instead�a suspicion of intellectual elites and city dwellers, a preference for folksiness and plainness of speech (whether real or feigned), and the association of a working-class white minority with 'the real America.'� This is what I term implicit whiteness � implicit because explicit assertions of white identity have been banned by the anti-white elites that dominate our politics and culture. It is a culture that, as Hsu notes, "cannot speak its name." But that implies that the submerged white identity of the white working class and the lack of cultural confidence exhibited by the rest of white America are imposed from outside. Although there may well be characteristics of whites that facilitate this process, this suppression of white identity and interests is certainly not the natural outcome of modernization or any other force internal to whites as a people. In my opinion, they are the result of the successful erection of a culture of critique in the West dominated by Jewish intellectual and political movements. The result is that educated, intellectually insecure white people these days are far more likely to believe in the utopian future described by Hsu than in hard and cautious thinking about what the future might have in store for them. It's worth dwelling a bit on the intellectual insecurity of the whites who mindlessly utter the mantras of multiculturalism that they have soaked up from the school system and from the media. Most people do not have much confidence in their intellectual ability and look to elite opinion to shape their beliefs. As I noted elsewhere, A critical component of the success of the culture of critique is that it achieved control of the most prestigious and influential institutions of the West, and it became a consensus among the elites, Jewish and non-Jewish alike. Once this happened, it is not surprising that this culture became widely accepted among people of very different levels of education and among people of different social classes. Most people are quite insecure about their intellectual ability. But they know that the professors at Harvard, and the editorial page of the New York Times and the Washington Post, and even conservative commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are all on page when it comes to racial and ethnic issues. This is a formidable array, to the point that you almost have to be a crank to dissent from this consensus. I think one of the greatest triumphs of the left has been to get people to believe that people who assert white identity and interests or who make unflattering portrayals of organized Jewish movements are morally degenerate, stupid, and perhaps psychiatrically disturbed. Obviously, all of these adjectives designate low status. The reality is that the multicultural emperor has no clothes and, because of its support for racial Zionism and the racialism of ethnic minorities in America, it is massively hypocritical to boot. The New York Times, the academic left, and the faux conservatives that dominate elite discourse on race and ethnicity are intellectually bankrupt and can only remain in power by ruthlessly suppressing or ignoring the scientific findings. This is particularly a problem for college-educated whites. Like Fitzgerald's Tom Buchanan, such people have a strong need to feel that their ideas are respectable and part of the mainstream. But the respectable mainstream gives them absolutely nothing with which to validate themselves except perhaps the idea that the world will be a better place when people like them no longer have power. Hsu quotes the pathetic Christian Lander: "�Like, I�m aware of all the horrible crimes that my demographic has done in the world. ... And there�s a bunch of white people who are desperate � desperate � to say, �You know what? My skin�s white, but I�m not one of the white people who�s destroying the world.�� As a zombie leftist during the 1960s and 1970s, I know what that feeling of desperation is like � what it's like to be a self-hating white. We must get to the point where college-educated whites proudly and confidently say they are white and that they do not want to become a minority in America. This reminds me of the recent docudrama Milk, which depicts the life of gay activist Harvey Milk. Milk is sure be nominated for an Oscar as Best Picture because it lovingly illustrates a triumph of the cultural left. But is has an important message that should resonate with the millions of whites who have been deprived of their confidence and their culture: Be explicit. Just as Harvey Milk advocated being openly gay even in the face of dire consequences, whites need to tell their family and their friends that they have an identity as a white person and believe that whites have legitimate interests as white people. They must accept the consequences when they are harassed, fired from their jobs, or put in prison for such beliefs. They must run for political office as openly pro-white. Milk shows that homosexuals were fired from their jobs and arrested for congregating in public. Now it's the Southern Poverty Law Center and the rest of the leftist intellectual and political establishment that harasses and attempts to get people fired. But it's the same situation with the roles reversed. No revolution was ever accomplished without some martyrs. The revolution that restores the legitimacy of white identity and the legitimacy of white interests will be no exception. But it is a revolution that is absolutely necessary. The white majority is foolish indeed to entrust its future to a utopian hope that racial and ethnic identifications will disappear and that they won�t continue to influence public policy in ways that compromise the interests of whites. It does not take an overactive imagination to see that coalitions of minority groups could compromise the interests of formerly dominant whites. We already see numerous examples in which coalitions of minority groups attempt to influence public policy, including immigration policy, against the interests of the whites. Placing ourselves in a position of vulnerability would be extremely risky, given the deep sense of historical grievance harbored by many ethnic activists and organized ethnic lobbies. This is especially the case with Jews. Jewish organisations have been unanimous in condemning Western societies, Western traditions, and Christianity, for past crimes against Jews. Similar sentiments are typical of a great many African Americans and Latinos, and especially among the ethnic activists from these groups. The �God damn America� sermon by President Obama's pastor comes to mind as a recent notorious example. The precedent of the early decades of the Soviet Union should give pause to anyone who believes that surrendering ethnic hegemony does not carry risks. The Bolshevik revolution had a pronounced ethnic angle: To a very great extent, Jews and other non-Russians ruled over the Russian people, with disastrous consequences for the Russians and other ethnic groups that were not able to become part of the power structure. Jews formed a hostile elite within this power structure � as they will in the future white-minority America; Jews were �Stalin�s willing executioners.� Two passages from my review of Yuri Slezkine's The Jewish Century seem particularly appropriate here. The first passage reminds me of the many American Jews who adopt a veneer of support for causes of leftist versions of social justice and racial tolerance while nevertheless managing to support racial Zionism and the mass murder, torture, and incarceration of the Palestinians. Such people may be very different when they become a hostile elite in a white-minority America. Many of the commentators on Jewish Bolsheviks noted the �transformation� of Jews [after the Bolshevik Revolution]. In the words of [a] Jewish commentator, G. A. Landau, �cruelty, sadism, and violence had seemed alien to a nation so far removed from physical activity.� And another Jewish commentator, Ia. A. Bromberg, noted that: the formerly oppressed lover of liberty had turned into a tyrant of �unheard-of-despotic arbitrariness��. The convinced and unconditional opponent of the death penalty not just for political crimes but for the most heinous offenses, who could not, as it were, watch a chicken being killed, has been transformed outwardly into a leather-clad person with a revolver and, in fact, lost all human likeness. ... After the Revolution, ... there was active suppression of any remnants of the older order and their descendants. ... The mass murder of peasants and nationalists was combined with the systematic exclusion of the previously existing non-Jewish middle class. The wife of a Leningrad University professor noted, �in all the institutions, only workers and Israelites are admitted; the life of the intelligentsia is very hard� (p. 243). Even at the end of the 1930s, prior to the Russification that accompanied World War II, �the Russian Federation�was still doing penance for its imperial past while also serving as an example of an ethnicity-free society� (p. 276). While all other nationalities, including Jews, were allowed and encouraged to keep their ethnic identities, the revolution remained an anti-majoritarian movement. The difference from the Soviet Union may well be that in white-minority America it will not be workers and Israelites who are favored, but non-whites and Israelites. Whites may dream that they are entering the post-racial utopia imagined by their erstwhile intellectual superiors. But it is quite possible that they are entering into a racial dystopia of unimaginable cruelty in which whites will be systematically excluded in favor of the new elites recruited from the soon-to-be majority. It's happened before. Kevin MacDonald is a professor of psychology at California State University�Long Beach. URL with hyperlink sources: http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-Hsu.html ------- Jewish Involvement in Black American Affairs Reflections on Martin Luther King Jr�s Birthday By Paul Grubach Just about every year on the eve of the national holiday honoring Martin Luther King Jr.�s birthday, the mainstream media in the United States put forth numerous articles about the large Jewish involvement with Dr. King and the equally large Jewish involvement with the Black American Civil Rights movement. Not surprisingly, the mainstream media�s description of this phenomenon is seen through rose-colored glasses. Jewish influence in Black American affairs is portrayed as overwhelmingly selfless, altruistic, charitable and humane. But is this really true? Let�s take a look. In 1991, The Nation of Islam, a Black religious group, published a very important study of Jewish involvement with the Black slave trade. Entitled The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews (SRBBJ), it is a well documented and well argued book, and the authors make this clear from the very beginning: �The information contained herein has been compiled primarily from Jewish historical literature. Every effort has been made to present evidence from the most respected of the Jewish authorities and whose works appear in established historical journals or are published by authoritative Jewish publishing houses.� The Black American expert on the slave trade, Dr. Tony Martin, has endorsed the book, as he has made it assigned reading in his courses. I have investigated at least some of the sources and they do indeed check out. In the book�s introduction we read: �Deep within the recesses of the Jewish historical record is the irrefutable evidence that the most prominent of the Jewish pilgrim fathers used kidnapped Black Africans disproportionately more than any other ethnic or religious group in New World history and participated in every aspect of the international slave trade.� Further on it is written: �Most have always assumed that the relationship between Blacks and Jews has been mutually supportive, friendly and fruitful � two suffering people bonding to overcome hatred and bigotry to achieve success. But history tells an altogether different story.� Not surprisingly, Jewish-Zionist groups, and those allied with them, have attempted to blacken the book�s reputation. Unable to refute its thesis, they resort to smear tactics. But Black Americans would do well to heed SRBBJ�s advice. The relationship between Blacks and Jews, they write, �is a relationship that needs further analysis. [�] Hidden and misunderstood, it is indeed time to reopen the files and reconsider The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews.� Furthermore, the irrational attacks upon SRBBJ highlight the hypocritical double standard that pervades the study of the sordid and evil business of the Black slave trade. It is socially and morally acceptable for Jewish scholars like Bernard Lewis to write books (Race and Slavery in the Middle East: An Historical Inquiry) that discuss Arab involvement in the Black slave trade, and it is socially and morally acceptable to discuss Black and European involvement in the Black Slave trade. But it is positively �wrong, evil, and immoral� for any non-Jewish scholar to openly discuss Jewish involvement in the Black slave trade. Indeed, consider the case of the brave Black scholar Tony Martin, who did try to tell the world about the large Jewish involvement in the Black slave trade. Readers of The Revisionist should check out his book The Jewish Onslaught: Despatches from the Wellesley Battlefront. For attempting to tell the truth about the large Jewish involvement in the Black slave trade he was harassed, persecuted, and Jewish-Zionist forces tried to damage his career. Indeed, any non-Jewish intellectual that attempts to bring to light the large Jewish involvement in the Black slave trade will almost certainly be attacked and maligned by Jewish-Zionist groups. Black American intellectual Harold Cruse and California psychology professor Kevin MacDonald have also fearlessly scrutinized Jewish involvement in Black affairs. Both have written some very insightful analyses of the question: Why were Jews so disproportionately involved in the Black Civil Rights movement? In their books, Cruse�s The Crisis of the Negro Intellectual and MacDonald,�s The Culture of Critique, they have noted that many Jews want a racially integrated society because it provides a hospitable environment for their long term policy of non-assimilation and group solidarity. Many Jews view white/Euro-American nationalism as their greatest potential threat, and they promote racial integration precisely because this presumably dilutes Euro-American power and lessens the possibility that a powerful and cohesive Euro-American standing in opposition to Jewish interests will develop. There is evidence that supports their viewpoints. If the primary motive of the Jewish groups that were involved in the Black American Civil Rights movement was to promote racial equality and racial integration, then we should expect that they would promote racial equality and ethnic integration in Israel just as ardently as they promoted it in the United States. But this is not the case. For the most part, the Jewish groups that were and are working to create a racially integrated society in the US are the same Jewish groups that were and are ardent supporters of the ethnically segregated apartheid state of Israel where racial segregation and Jewish supremacism are enshrined in law. Jewish scholar Uri Davis has written a book, the title of which says it all: Israel: An Apartheid State. If there is ever to be harmony between the races in the United States, then we are all going to have to literally lay �all of the cards on the table.� That is to say, Blacks and whites, Jews and non-Jews, are going to have to discuss these racial problems in an open, honest and forthright manner, free of name-calling and emotional outbursts. The history of Jewish involvement in Black affairs has been, for the most part, surrounded by taboos and �off-limits� for discussion. It is about time that Black Americans � and all other Americans for that matter � break down these taboos and reconsider Jewish involvement in Black American affairs. Source : http://www.davidduke.com/general/the-suppressed-history-between-blacks-and-jews_7214.html Jewish Involvement in Black American Affairs Part 2 www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?id=1444 --------------------------------------------- Lawrence Auster, 238 W 101 St Apt. 3B New York, NY 10025 Contact: lawrence.auster at att.net From eventmaster+off26yoy at facebookmail.com Wed Jan 21 11:31:34 2009 From: eventmaster+off26yoy at facebookmail.com (Facebook) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:01:34 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Gargi Sen invited you to the event "Under Construction @ the Kolkata Book Fair"... Message-ID: <7f87777bdaea2cbee7335bd9a8297fd3@localhost.localdomain> Hi Reader, Gargi invited you to "Under Construction @ the Kolkata Book Fair" on 27 January at 16:30. Gargi says, "Hi, If you are in Calcutta, also known as Kolkata, between 28 Jan to 8 Feb please do visit us. Gargi". Event: Under Construction @ the Kolkata Book Fair "Films and books" What: Carnival Host: Magic Lantern Foundation Start Time: 27 January at 16:30 End Time: 08 February at 18:00 Where: Kolkata Book Fair To see more details and RSVP, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=794110415&k=5WCZQ2V6RW3MXCL1TC2TU Facebook helps you keep in touch with your friends and family and reconnect with people you have lost touch with. You can share unlimited photos, plan events and join discussion groups. It's free and everyone can join. To register, go to: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=794110415&k=5WCZQ2V6RW3MXCL1TC2TU&r Thanks, The Facebook Team ___________________ This email may contain promotional materials. If you do not wish to receive future commercial mailings from Facebook, please click on the link below. Facebook's offices are located at 156 University Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94301. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?u=718051484&k=cc85c8 From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Jan 16 14:20:04 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (Cinematheque) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:50:04 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_The_Best?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_of_Flash_on_the_Net?= Message-ID: <20090116095004.8CEBC814.3C6DBC69@192.168.0.3> Deadline: 2 March 2009 Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net Call for entries \\ Flash & Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artictic creations // Since the Internet became popular in the late 90'ies of 20th century, the software program "FLASH", once developed and prepared for the commercial market by Macromedia, and now owned by Adobe, represents a vector based developing environment which enables the creator to combine different media and develop vector based animations especially for the Internet. .swf data file extension became a standard for animations online and offline, and Flash video and its .flv file format stands for "videostreaming" on the net. As soon as the Internet started, artists captured it for artistic purposes, and the same is good for certain software used for the net, particularly Flash is predestined for developing artistic creations due to its intuitive use. It became one of the most popular software tools for the net, computer based animations and interactive applications like games. Flash based artworks entered media festivals, even festivals solely based on movies created in Flash are organised. After Cinematheque - streaming media environments - explored in 2007 the capabilities of "Quicktime" as an artistic medium in the comprehensive show \\Slowtime? Quicktime as an artistic medium// - its now the time to explore in 2009 the artistic potential of Flash in its own way in a big online show, as well. // Flash and Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations \\ Cinematheque is looking for the best artistic Flash works created since 2000. Please find the regulations and entry form on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From alice at tank.tv Fri Jan 16 16:14:28 2009 From: alice at tank.tv (Alice O'Reilly) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:44:28 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] www.tank.tv : Claire Hope : 15th - 31st January 2009 Message-ID: <442eb4460901160244n53e4c0b6x556caf8ec32eb97b@mail.gmail.com> *CLAIRE HOPE www.tank.tv 15th - 31st January 2009* Originally from North Yorkshire, Claire Hope is now based in London; graduating with an MA Fine Art from Chelsea College of Art in 2004. Claire has produced a number of solo installations and shown widely in group exhibitions; recently screening video work internationally as part of the touring transmediale.07 video selection and presenting a solo exhibition at Way East Project Space, London in May 2008. Claire was also a 2007/8 LUX Associate Artist. Claire's video and performance projects are choreographed to emphasise the personal, subjective sphere of human life. Her work often responds unconventionally to particular environments or social contexts; disrupting and subverting our associations with them by combining narratives ranging from the surreal, strange and unsettling to the humorous, playful and emotive. Video work has drawn from existing, improvised and written speech with non-linear narratives often mapped to the filmed space. Recently Claire has developed original scripts for video projects conceived as highly orchestrated linear journeys. Claire is interested in social, political and economic systems and how these may represent human beliefs, motivations and actions. She links the private sphere of perception to the public realm of interaction and its formal or informal contexts in work often set in individual locations. The way power and desire are experienced or expressed through such relationships is a central theme, also how this relates to the urge to present and the expectations of viewers. In her work Claire combines information from different – often segregated or professionalized - areas of knowledge. She creates fictional relationships which hope to exist across these apparently disparate contexts - blurring the boundaries of a perceived reality and fiction and deliberately implicating the maker and viewer in this choreography. 'In all honesty there's nothing I'd like more' of 2005 combines a shifting monologue of official pronouncements, emotive reactions, personal statements and musical performance in a choreographed journey around an unconventional landscaped public space. In 'Your task will fail to be realised (I'll do what I can)' 2005, a performative journey around a lavish corporate waiting area portrays an anarchic and illogical array of characterisations amid an ambiguous relationship with the cameraman. In 'Virgin Soil' of 2007 a subjective arrangement of video and still footage of the built environment (later used in 2008) is combined with a non-narrative soundtrack. 'Shredder Heaven' 2008, combines an apparently passionate private performance with a repetitive administrative task. 'Complex Financial Instruments' of 2008 joins still and video imagery of the built environment in different states of development, to recorded and live private decision-making around a future building of ambitious landmark proportions. Exhibited at as an event-based installation the discussion became increasingly absurd amid growing references to shared mythic belief systems. Works of interest; by Adam Chodzko and Stuart Croft, have been selected for their differing approaches to narrative representation, especially within a relationship to our environment, social or institutional forms of individual or collective action and to subverting familiar forms of depiction. Very special thanks to Adam and Stuart for showing their work. *www.tank.tv* -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - Alice O'Reilly tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA alice at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Claire Hope 15th - 31st January 2009 'Fresh Moves' - Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 16:32:06 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:02:06 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901210301p6c868f6co53258223b35e81b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0901210131y3bd7055apf22ba61977e1f030@mail.gmail.com> <20377.82629.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901210301p6c868f6co53258223b35e81b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> god help me :D the taliban cant tolerate this stuff and we can ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kshmendra Kaul Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM >From the links provided by Yasir, was led to http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) posters: - Market Girl - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast - Scheming Nasty - Maula Jat rides again - Blood lusting Noor - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind - Bad hair day - Blow em away, Baby! - Beauty oblivious to the beast - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda - all dressed up and nowhere to go - well if it ain't Joe Cool - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame - Time for a little frolic - one party too many! - coochie coo - Vamire Hooker - Wehshi Jat - flop remake - The Beast in Heat! - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk - Chaudhry's Angels - Bad Girl Rani KK --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on > language/s in > pakistan > > some movie posters for you : > > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ > > and > > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr > acc., the posters are a > > real treat, not much different from those that are > printed in India though > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq > Rehman saheb write some > > book on posters too? > > > > T > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 16:32:33 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:02:33 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0901210131y3bd7055apf22ba61977e1f030@mail.gmail.com> <20377.82629.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901210301p6c868f6co53258223b35e81b@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901210302n18f882afkb1926e06dc1edbae@mail.gmail.com> god help me :D the taliban cant tolerate this stuff and we can ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kshmendra Kaul Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM >From the links provided by Yasir, was led to http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) posters: - Market Girl - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast - Scheming Nasty - Maula Jat rides again - Blood lusting Noor - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind - Bad hair day - Blow em away, Baby! - Beauty oblivious to the beast - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda - all dressed up and nowhere to go - well if it ain't Joe Cool - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame - Time for a little frolic - one party too many! - coochie coo - Vamire Hooker - Wehshi Jat - flop remake - The Beast in Heat! - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk - Chaudhry's Angels - Bad Girl Rani KK --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on > language/s in > pakistan > > some movie posters for you : > > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ > > and > > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr > acc., the posters are a > > real treat, not much different from those that are > printed in India though > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq > Rehman saheb write some > > book on posters too? > > > > T > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 17:49:41 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:19:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <555327.27771.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> 1. I found the titles delightful. The Sales Pitch in English. It is a commercial site offering Prints and Hand Painted reproductions.   2. As far as the posters are concerned, it is an interesting depiction of the 'Macho' and (presumably) the 'erotic' which is not unique to Lollywood. Maybe constant exposure (pun?) alters the sense of the 'risque'   3. God is best not invoked. My motive is selfish. Might draw attention to the Hindu (poster) depictions of the Divine. They might be seen as being crude and obscene just as I judge many of them.   We will be caught between "Taliban The Terrorist" and "God The Terrorist". Agar ek ne muaaf kiya, doosra nahi karega (If one forgives, the other one wont)   K  --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan To: "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 4:32 PM god help me :D the taliban cant tolerate this stuff and we can ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kshmendra Kaul Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM >From the links provided by Yasir, was led to http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) posters: - Market Girl - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast - Scheming Nasty - Maula Jat rides again - Blood lusting Noor - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind - Bad hair day - Blow em away, Baby! - Beauty oblivious to the beast - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda - all dressed up and nowhere to go - well if it ain't Joe Cool - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame - Time for a little frolic - one party too many! - coochie coo - Vamire Hooker - Wehshi Jat - flop remake - The Beast in Heat! - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk - Chaudhry's Angels - Bad Girl Rani KK --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on > language/s in > pakistan > > some movie posters for you : > > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ > > and > > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr > acc., the posters are a > > real treat, not much different from those that are > printed in India though > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq > Rehman saheb write some > > book on posters too? > > > > T > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 17:55:58 2009 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:25:58 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Noam Chomsky on GAZA Message-ID: <418f44e20901210425le522263hd60f550c0da5620a@mail.gmail.com> Here is a link to recent post by Chomsky on Gaza massacre and its politics. http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/20316 "Exterminate all the Brutes": Gaza 2009 January 20, 2009 By *Noam Chomsky* Noam Chomsky's ZSpace Page Join ZSpace On Saturday December 27, the latest US-Israeli attack on helpless Palestinians was launched. The attack had been meticulously planned, for over 6 months according to the Israeli press. The planning had two components: military and propaganda. It was based on the lessons of Israel's 2006 invasion of Lebanon, which was considered to be poorly planned and badly advertised. We may, therefore, be fairly confident that most of what has been done and said was pre-planned and intended. That surely includes the timing of the assault: shortly before noon, when children were returning from school and crowds were milling in the streets of densely populated Gaza City. It took only a few minutes to kill over 225 people and wound 700, an auspicious opening to the mass slaughter of defenseless civilians trapped in a tiny cage with nowhere to flee. In his retrospective "Parsing Gains of Gaza War," *New York Times *correspondent Ethan Bronner cited this achievement as one of the most significant of the gains. Israel calculated that it would be advantageous to appear to "go crazy," causing vastly disproportionate terror, a doctrine that traces back to the 1950s. "The Palestinians in Gaza got the message on the first day," Bronner wrote, "when Israeli warplanes struck numerous targets simultaneously in the middle of a Saturday morning. Some 200 were killed instantly, shocking Hamas and indeed all of Gaza." The tactic of "going crazy" appears to have been successful, Bronner concluded: there are "limited indications that the people of Gaza felt such pain from this war that they will seek to rein in Hamas," the elected government. That is another long-standing doctrine of state terror. I don't, incidentally, recall the *Times* retrospective "Parsing Gains of Chechnya War," though the gains were great. The meticulous planning also presumably included the termination of the assault, carefully timed to be just before the inauguration, so as to minimize the (remote) threat that Obama might have to say some words critical of these vicious US-supported crimes. Two weeks after the Sabbath opening of the assault, with much of Gaza already pounded to rubble and the death toll approaching 1000, the UN Agency UNRWA, on which most Gazans depend for survival, announced that the Israeli military refused to allow aid shipments to Gaza, saying that the crossings were closed for the Sabbath. To honor the holy day, Palestinians at the edge of survival must be denied food and medicine, while hundreds can be slaughtered by US jet bombers and helicopters. The rigorous observance of the Sabbath in this dual fashion attracted little if any notice. That makes sense. In the annals of US-Israeli criminality, such cruelty and cynicism scarcely merit more than a footnote. They are too familiar. To cite one relevant parallel, in June 1982 the US-backed Israeli invasion of Lebanon opened with the bombing of the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila, later to become famous as the site of terrible massacres supervised by the IDF (Israeli "Defense" Forces). The bombing hit the local hospital - the Gaza hospital -- and killed over 200 people, according to the eyewitness account of an American Middle East academic specialist. The massacre was the opening act in an invasion that slaughtered some 15-20,000 people and destroyed much of southern Lebanon and Beirut, proceeding with crucial US military and diplomatic support. That included vetoes of Security Council resolutions seeking to halt the criminal aggression that was undertaken, as scarcely concealed, to defend Israel from the threat of peaceful political settlement, contrary to many convenient fabrications about Israelis suffering under intense rocketing, a fantasy of apologists. All of this is normal, and quite openly discussed by high Israeli officials. Thirty years ago Chief of Staff Mordechai Gur observed that since 1948, "we have been fighting against a population that lives in villages and cities." As Israel's most prominent military analyst, Zeev Schiff, summarized his remarks, "the Israeli Army has always struck civilian populations, purposely and consciously...the Army, he said, has never distinguished civilian [from military] targets...[but] purposely attacked civilian targets." The reasons were explained by the distinguished statesman Abba Eban: "there was a rational prospect, ultimately fulfilled, that affected populations would exert pressure for the cessation of hostilities." The effect, as Eban well understood, would be to allow Israel to implement, undisturbed, its programs of illegal expansion and harsh repression. Eban was commenting on a review of Labor government attacks against civilians by Prime Minister Begin, presenting a picture, Eban said, "of an Israel wantonly inflicting every possible measure of death and anguish on civilian populations in a mood reminiscent of regimes which neither Mr.Begin nor I would dare to mention by name."* *Eban did not contest the facts that Begin reviewed, but criticized him for stating them publicly. Nor did it concern Eban, or his admirers, that his advocacy of massive state terror is also reminiscent of regimes he would not dare to mention by name. To read more click http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/20316 -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From vrjogi at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 18:35:19 2009 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:05:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Latest Pictures - Rainawari (Srinagar) Ruins of Vital Bhairava In-Reply-To: <5313.23383.qm@web51105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <6353c690901200015s1a443187m318b6af880ff0469@mail.gmail.com> <5313.23383.qm@web51105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ours is a secular country so ---PROTEST AGAINST ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS---is much more important than anyother thing . please don't waste your time and energy in distributing such type of mails it is going to fall on deaf ears. who has got time to care for hindus? vedavati Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:49:57 -0800From: rashneek at yahoo.comSubject: Re: Latest Pictures - Rainawari (Srinagar) Ruins of Vital BhairavaTo: pawan.durani at gmail.com; ashishzutshi at hotmail.com; amal.magazine at gmail.com; peshin.sanjay at gmail.com; amitraina at yahoo.com; lalitambardar at hotmail.com; amitmagazine at gmail.com; send2sp at gmail.com; kamalhak at gmail.com; bhawickrocks at gmail.com; jsandhya at gmail.com; tarun.vijay at gmail.com; mail2kgupta at gmail.com; lalitkoul at yahoo.com; wjohn60 at gmail.com; fgautier26 at gmail.com; amitbhan1 at gmail.com; sidharthmishra at hotmail.com; bhavya.ketan.vasudev at gmail.com; suniljibhat at gmail.com; deepakganju at hotmail.com; Jeevan.Zutshi at gmail.com; rahul.thathoo at gmail.com; poojashali at gmail.com; nerd2world at gmail.com; neeru23 at gmail.com; veeruz at gmail.com; rtpandit at gmail.com; mattoork at yahoo.co.in; neeraj_santoshi at rediffmail.com; sazawal at gmail.com; abhinav_kaul at mentor.com; abhishek.kundu57 at gmail.com; kaul60 at rediffmail.com; rockeypandita at gmail.com; dailyshadow at rediffmail.com; rahulpandita1 at gmail.com; lalchowk at gmail.com; sdeo76 at gmail.com; editor at dailyexcelsior.com; editor at organiserweekly.com; kolohoi at gmail.com; jogindersinghfdips at hotmail.com; vrjogi at hotmail.com; irazdan at yahoo.com; ishita_kaul at hotmail.com; rhythma.kaul at gmail.com; vikaskaul at gmail.com; kaul.sapna1 at gmail.com; abhayzutshi at gmail.com; razdan.aditya at gmail.com; onlyrinks at gmail.com; alwayspiyush at gmail.com; arun.santoshi at gmail.com; akpandita2005 at rediffmail.com; gkawkher at gmail.com; kashmiripandits at gmail.com; kashmiribard at gmail.com; sunilraina10 at gmail.com; sunilfotedar at yahoo.com; sunil_bali at yahoo.com; tusharmattoo at gmail.com; ramsuu at gmail.com; rameshpaanyaar at rediffmail.com; paannyaar at rediffmail.com; vinod.bhan at careerlauncher.com; sunil.tiku at gmail.com; pronit2002 at yahoo.com; aiksnd at rediffmail.com; vivekrainaat at gmail.com; sampost at nda.vsnl.net.in; hemant.kaul at gmail.com; scorpio4life88 at gmail.com; amitkrundu at gmail.com; amit.shali at gmail.com; rcganjoo at gmail.com; kaul.sumir at gmail.com; kaul.ak at gmail.com; queenlygeek at gmail.com; neetiraina1 at hotmail.com; raina at teacher.com; kasheer at gmail.com; rainamk1 at yahoo.co.in; youth.shehjar at gmail.com; kauladityaraj at gmail.com Dear Aditya, These pictures are a grim reminder of the fact that how much little we have done to reclaim our land.They are a sordid tale of what Islamists have done to us but more that what we have done to our own faith. We have a history of forgetting and getting on with life and these pictures just say that. Love Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy blog:http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com blog:http://nietzschereborn.blogspot.com--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: From: Aditya Raj Kaul Subject: Latest Pictures - Rainawari (Srinagar) Ruins of Vital BhairavaTo: "Rashneek Kher" , "Pawan Durani" , "ashish zutshi" , "Amal Magazine" , "sanjay peshin" , "Amit Raina" , "Lalit Ambardar" , "amit magazine" , "Sushil Pandit" , kamalhak at gmail.com, bhawickrocks at gmail.com, jsandhya at gmail.com, tarun.vijay at gmail.com, mail2kgupta at gmail.com, "Lalit Koul" , wjohn60 at gmail.com, fgautier26 at gmail.com, amitbhan1 at gmail.com, sidharthmishra at hotmail.com, bhavya.ketan.vasudev at gmail.com, "Sunil Bhat" , "Deepak Ganju" , Jeevan.Zutshi at gmail.com, "Rahul Thathoo" , "Pooja Shali- THE POWER OF HOPE.." , "nerd world" , "neeru didi" , "Veer Wangoo" , "Rahul Pandit M.D." , "R.K. Mattoo" , "neeraj Santoshi" , "Dr. Vijay Sazawal" , "Kaul, Abhinav" , "abhishek kundu" , "Gautam Kaul" , "rockey pandita" , "daily shadow" , rahulpandita1 at gmail.com, "Anil Kaul" , sdeo76 at gmail.com, "excelsior" , editor at organiserweekly.com, kolohoi at gmail.com, jogindersinghfdips at hotmail.com, "Vedavati Jogi" , "Irma Razdan" , ishita_kaul at hotmail.com, "Rhythma Kaul" , "Vikas Kaul" , "sapna kaul" , abhayzutshi at gmail.com, "Aditya Razdan" , "rinku thusoo" , "Piyush Kaul" , arun.santoshi at gmail.com, "ajay pandita" , "geetika kaw kher" , kashmiripandits at gmail.com, "Mrinal Kaul" , "Sunil Raina" , "Sunil Fotedar" , "Sunil bali" , "tushar mattoo" , ramsuu at gmail.com, "ramesh manvati" , "Ramesh Manwati" , "vinod . bhan" , "sunil tiku" , "Sunil Shakder" , "AllIndia Kashmiri Samaj" , vivekrainaat at gmail.com, "kamlesh vakil" , hemant.kaul at gmail.com, "sheen handoo" , amitkrundu at gmail.com, amit.shali at gmail.com, rcganjoo at gmail.com, "sumir kaul" , kaul.ak at gmail.com, "romika dhar" , "neeti raina" , "Dr. Chaman Lal Raina" , "Mona Raina" , "MK RAINA" , "Bhumika Raina" Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:45 PM Dear All,Attached are some latest pictures of the ruins of much famous Vital Bhairava temple in Motiyar, Rainawari (Srinagar). Along with them are as well pictures of Pandit homes which have now been occupied by local Muslims.19 years ago on this day we had crossed over uner gun point and left our homeland....in waiting.IAditya Raj KaulP.S. - Pictures Courtesy - Shikha Labroo (Chandigarh) Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. Much more than email _________________________________________________________________ For the freshest Indian Jobs Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From vrjogi at hotmail.com Wed Jan 21 18:35:59 2009 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:05:59 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Latest Pictures - Rainawari (Srinagar) Ruins of Vital Bhairava In-Reply-To: <5313.23383.qm@web51105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <6353c690901200015s1a443187m318b6af880ff0469@mail.gmail.com> <5313.23383.qm@web51105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ours is a secular country so ---PROTEST AGAINST ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS---is much more important than anyother thing . please don't waste your time and energy in distributing such type of mails it is going to fall on deaf ears. who has got time to care for hindus? vedavati Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:49:57 -0800From: rashneek at yahoo.comSubject: Re: Latest Pictures - Rainawari (Srinagar) Ruins of Vital BhairavaTo: pawan.durani at gmail.com; ashishzutshi at hotmail.com; amal.magazine at gmail.com; peshin.sanjay at gmail.com; amitraina at yahoo.com; lalitambardar at hotmail.com; amitmagazine at gmail.com; send2sp at gmail.com; kamalhak at gmail.com; bhawickrocks at gmail.com; jsandhya at gmail.com; tarun.vijay at gmail.com; mail2kgupta at gmail.com; lalitkoul at yahoo.com; wjohn60 at gmail.com; fgautier26 at gmail.com; amitbhan1 at gmail.com; sidharthmishra at hotmail.com; bhavya.ketan.vasudev at gmail.com; suniljibhat at gmail.com; deepakganju at hotmail.com; Jeevan.Zutshi at gmail.com; rahul.thathoo at gmail.com; poojashali at gmail.com; nerd2world at gmail.com; neeru23 at gmail.com; veeruz at gmail.com; rtpandit at gmail.com; mattoork at yahoo.co.in; neeraj_santoshi at rediffmail.com; sazawal at gmail.com; abhinav_kaul at mentor.com; abhishek.kundu57 at gmail.com; kaul60 at rediffmail.com; rockeypandita at gmail.com; dailyshadow at rediffmail.com; rahulpandita1 at gmail.com; lalchowk at gmail.com; sdeo76 at gmail.com; editor at dailyexcelsior.com; editor at organiserweekly.com; kolohoi at gmail.com; jogindersinghfdips at hotmail.com; vrjogi at hotmail.com; irazdan at yahoo.com; ishita_kaul at hotmail.com; rhythma.kaul at gmail.com; vikaskaul at gmail.com; kaul.sapna1 at gmail.com; abhayzutshi at gmail.com; razdan.aditya at gmail.com; onlyrinks at gmail.com; alwayspiyush at gmail.com; arun.santoshi at gmail.com; akpandita2005 at rediffmail.com; gkawkher at gmail.com; kashmiripandits at gmail.com; kashmiribard at gmail.com; sunilraina10 at gmail.com; sunilfotedar at yahoo.com; sunil_bali at yahoo.com; tusharmattoo at gmail.com; ramsuu at gmail.com; rameshpaanyaar at rediffmail.com; paannyaar at rediffmail.com; vinod.bhan at careerlauncher.com; sunil.tiku at gmail.com; pronit2002 at yahoo.com; aiksnd at rediffmail.com; vivekrainaat at gmail.com; sampost at nda.vsnl.net.in; hemant.kaul at gmail.com; scorpio4life88 at gmail.com; amitkrundu at gmail.com; amit.shali at gmail.com; rcganjoo at gmail.com; kaul.sumir at gmail.com; kaul.ak at gmail.com; queenlygeek at gmail.com; neetiraina1 at hotmail.com; raina at teacher.com; kasheer at gmail.com; rainamk1 at yahoo.co.in; youth.shehjar at gmail.com; kauladityaraj at gmail.com Dear Aditya, These pictures are a grim reminder of the fact that how much little we have done to reclaim our land.They are a sordid tale of what Islamists have done to us but more that what we have done to our own faith. We have a history of forgetting and getting on with life and these pictures just say that. Love Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy blog:http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com blog:http://nietzschereborn.blogspot.com--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: From: Aditya Raj Kaul Subject: Latest Pictures - Rainawari (Srinagar) Ruins of Vital BhairavaTo: "Rashneek Kher" , "Pawan Durani" , "ashish zutshi" , "Amal Magazine" , "sanjay peshin" , "Amit Raina" , "Lalit Ambardar" , "amit magazine" , "Sushil Pandit" , kamalhak at gmail.com, bhawickrocks at gmail.com, jsandhya at gmail.com, tarun.vijay at gmail.com, mail2kgupta at gmail.com, "Lalit Koul" , wjohn60 at gmail.com, fgautier26 at gmail.com, amitbhan1 at gmail.com, sidharthmishra at hotmail.com, bhavya.ketan.vasudev at gmail.com, "Sunil Bhat" , "Deepak Ganju" , Jeevan.Zutshi at gmail.com, "Rahul Thathoo" , "Pooja Shali- THE POWER OF HOPE.." , "nerd world" , "neeru didi" , "Veer Wangoo" , "Rahul Pandit M.D." , "R.K. Mattoo" , "neeraj Santoshi" , "Dr. Vijay Sazawal" , "Kaul, Abhinav" , "abhishek kundu" , "Gautam Kaul" , "rockey pandita" , "daily shadow" , rahulpandita1 at gmail.com, "Anil Kaul" , sdeo76 at gmail.com, "excelsior" , editor at organiserweekly.com, kolohoi at gmail.com, jogindersinghfdips at hotmail.com, "Vedavati Jogi" , "Irma Razdan" , ishita_kaul at hotmail.com, "Rhythma Kaul" , "Vikas Kaul" , "sapna kaul" , abhayzutshi at gmail.com, "Aditya Razdan" , "rinku thusoo" , "Piyush Kaul" , arun.santoshi at gmail.com, "ajay pandita" , "geetika kaw kher" , kashmiripandits at gmail.com, "Mrinal Kaul" , "Sunil Raina" , "Sunil Fotedar" , "Sunil bali" , "tushar mattoo" , ramsuu at gmail.com, "ramesh manvati" , "Ramesh Manwati" , "vinod . bhan" , "sunil tiku" , "Sunil Shakder" , "AllIndia Kashmiri Samaj" , vivekrainaat at gmail.com, "kamlesh vakil" , hemant.kaul at gmail.com, "sheen handoo" , amitkrundu at gmail.com, amit.shali at gmail.com, rcganjoo at gmail.com, "sumir kaul" , kaul.ak at gmail.com, "romika dhar" , "neeti raina" , "Dr. Chaman Lal Raina" , "Mona Raina" , "MK RAINA" , "Bhumika Raina" Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:45 PM Dear All,Attached are some latest pictures of the ruins of much famous Vital Bhairava temple in Motiyar, Rainawari (Srinagar). Along with them are as well pictures of Pandit homes which have now been occupied by local Muslims.19 years ago on this day we had crossed over uner gun point and left our homeland....in waiting.IAditya Raj KaulP.S. - Pictures Courtesy - Shikha Labroo (Chandigarh) Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. Much more than email _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 20:16:58 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:46:58 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <555327.27771.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> <555327.27771.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901210646t4dec3183r1a7789acfadd331c@mail.gmail.com> you have a bad case of : Eemaan mujhay khainchay hay tho rokay hai mujahay kufr [when faith allures me i am held back by heresy] i like color myself. best On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > 3. God is best not invoked. My motive is selfish. Might draw attention to > the Hindu (poster) depictions of the Divine. They might be seen as being > crude and obscene just as I judge many of them. > > We will be caught between "Taliban The Terrorist" and "God The Terrorist". > Agar ek ne muaaf kiya, doosra nahi karega (If one forgives, the other one > wont) > > K > > > --- On *Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر * wrote: > > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 > myths about pakistan > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 4:32 PM > > god help me :D > > the taliban cant tolerate this stuff and we can ? > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM > > > > From the links provided by Yasir, was led to > http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND > http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm > > Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) posters: > > - Market Girl > > - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast > > - Scheming Nasty > > - Maula Jat rides again > > - Blood lusting Noor > > - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind > > - Bad hair day > > - Blow em away, Baby! > > - Beauty oblivious to the beast > > - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda > > - all dressed up and nowhere to go > > - well if it ain't Joe Cool > > - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame > > - Time for a little frolic > > - one party too many! > > - coochie coo > > - Vamire Hooker > > - Wehshi Jat - flop remake > > - The Beast in Heat! > > - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk > > - Chaudhry's Angels > > - Bad Girl Rani > > > KK > > --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > > > From: yasir ~يا سر > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 > myths about pakistan > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM > > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on > > language/s in > > pakistan > > > > some movie posters for you : > > > > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ > > > > and > > > > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood > > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr > > acc., the posters are a > > > real treat, not much different from those that are > > printed in India though > > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq > > Rehman saheb write some > > > book on posters too? > > > > > > T > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 20:36:03 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:06:03 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901210646t4dec3183r1a7789acfadd331c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> <555327.27771.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901210646t4dec3183r1a7789acfadd331c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901210706p124060d7g9b4b0b3ea83865d6@mail.gmail.com> sorry its the other way: Eeman mujhe roke hai tho khainchay hai mujhay kufr [when faith holds me back, i am allured by heresy] On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:46 PM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > > you have a bad case of : > > Eemaan mujhay khainchay hay tho rokay hai mujahay kufr > > [when faith allures me i am held back by heresy] > > i like color myself. > > best > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >> >> >> 3. God is best not invoked. My motive is selfish. Might draw attention to >> the Hindu (poster) depictions of the Divine. They might be seen as being >> crude and obscene just as I judge many of them. >> >> We will be caught between "Taliban The Terrorist" and "God The Terrorist". >> Agar ek ne muaaf kiya, doosra nahi karega (If one forgives, the other one >> wont) >> >> K >> >> >> --- On *Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر * wrote: >> >> From: yasir ~يا سر >> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >> myths about pakistan >> To: "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 4:32 PM >> >> god help me :D >> >> the taliban cant tolerate this stuff and we can ? >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Kshmendra Kaul >> Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM >> >> >> >> From the links provided by Yasir, was led to >> http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND >> http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm >> >> Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) posters: >> >> - Market Girl >> >> - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast >> >> - Scheming Nasty >> >> - Maula Jat rides again >> >> - Blood lusting Noor >> >> - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind >> >> - Bad hair day >> >> - Blow em away, Baby! >> >> - Beauty oblivious to the beast >> >> - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda >> >> - all dressed up and nowhere to go >> >> - well if it ain't Joe Cool >> >> - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame >> >> - Time for a little frolic >> >> - one party too many! >> >> - coochie coo >> >> - Vamire Hooker >> >> - Wehshi Jat - flop remake >> >> - The Beast in Heat! >> >> - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk >> >> - Chaudhry's Angels >> >> - Bad Girl Rani >> >> >> KK >> >> --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: >> >> > From: yasir ~يا سر >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >> myths about pakistan >> > To: "sarai list" >> > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM >> > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on >> > language/s in >> > pakistan >> > >> > some movie posters for you : >> > >> > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ >> > >> > and >> > >> > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood >> > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: >> > >> > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr >> > acc., the posters are a >> > > real treat, not much different from those that are >> > printed in India though >> > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq >> > Rehman saheb write some >> > > book on posters too? >> > > >> > > T >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to >> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> > header. >> > To unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 21 21:46:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:16:41 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-70 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901210816j75c02fb3j6a94c52fa3da82db@mail.gmail.com> http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080037812&ch=1/5/2008%2011:14:00%20PM Delhi governor justifies ID card proposal NDTV Correspondent Saturday, January 05, 2008, (New Delhi) In the midst of the controversy over his announcement of mandatory photo-identity cards, Lt Governor Tejinder Khanna tonight said that the move was not meant to harass people and "they have just to specify the reason for their stay in the city." "It will be a random checking by the police and not meant to harass people. The announcement was made keeping in view the security scenario in the country," a spokesperson from the Lt Governor office told PTI. He said the citizens will be asked to give the reason for staying in Delhi and any kind of identity proof would serve the purpose. On Friday, Khanna at a press conference had said that from January 15, police will carry out random checking to verify the antecedent of any citizen in the city. The move has drawn stiff criticism BJP which called it "impracticable" and the Congress saying there were difficulties in implementing it. "I got to know about this from the newspapers. The Lieutenant Governor must have thought over it a lot before deciding, this is not something impossible," said Shiela Dikshit, Chief Minister. Diskhit made it clear that her government wasn't party to a proposal floated by the Lieutenant Governor of Delhi that makes it mandatory for every Delhiite to carry a photo identity card from the 15th of this month. The Congress government in Delhi has raised doubts about implementing the scheme given the city's large migrant workers, many of whom do not have proper documents to establish their identity. But some feel the move may prove to be a tool for harassment. "It'll give police chance to harass poor people. They will be able to extract money," said Prashant Bhushan, Supreme Court Lawyer. With Delhi going to polls this year, the issue could become politically sensitive. In fact the Opposition has gone a step further. "The Central Government should issue multi-purpose identity cards to every Indian National and also prepare a National Citizenship Register," said Prakash Javedekar, Spokesperson, BJP. But some believe the idea will actually make the Capital city a safer place to live in, which includes Former Police Officer Kiran Bedi. Bedi is of the opinion that this is a welcome move. (With PTI Inputs) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 21 21:48:18 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:18:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-71 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901210818r2fc17c04s6a873a9b1a3670f5@mail.gmail.com> http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080105/main4.htm The Tribune Saturday, January 5, 2008, Chandigarh, India Come January 15, identity proof must for Delhiites Tribune News Service & PTI New Delhi, January 4 >From January 15, any citizen living in the national capital can be asked by the police to produce his or her identity proof, failing which could land the person in trouble. "The decision to verify the identity of citizens has been taken to step up security in the wake of recent terror attacks in various parts of the country. The checking would help prevent such incidents," Lieut Governor Tejinder Khanna told reporters here today. An order has been issued in this regard to the Delhi police. The checking would be carried out randomly and any individual could be asked to produce identity proof, which could be photo identity card, ration card, passport or any other valid proof, Khanna said. An identity card can be an election photo identity card, driving licence, PAN card, passport, ration card or office ID card. "Hence to save themselves from any inconvenience, they should ensure that they carry their proof of identity with them when they are out of their homes," Khanna said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 21 21:50:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:20:38 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-72 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901210820n10aefee9pab2a47a20f383edb@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Move_to_make_ID_cards_mandatory_impractical_BJP/articleshow/2677314.cms The Times of India Move to make ID cards mandatory impractical: BJP 5 Jan 2008, 1810 hrs IST, PTI NEW DELHI: BJP on Saturday dubbed as "impractical" Delhi Government's move to make it mandatory for everybody in the capital to possess a photo identity card. Instead, it asked the Central Government to create a national citizen register and issue multi-purpose cards to all citizens to fulfil security concerns. "We can understand the Lt Governor's intention. But in reality 50 per cent of the people in Delhi does not possess any kind of identity card," BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar said. He said the BJP had been demanding creation of a national citizen register and issuance of multi-purpose smart cards, which is handy and water-proof. "In the present situation, the suggestion seems to be impractical," he told reporters in New Delhi. Javadekar said it is to be seen whether Delhi Lt Governor's Tejinder Khanna's suggestion fulfils the basic aim of addressing security concerns or is reduced to just checking of citizens. "We will have to wait and see whether it works or troubles the people," he added. From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 00:41:27 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:11:27 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan References: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com><555327.27771.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com><5af37bb0901210646t4dec3183r1a7789acfadd331c@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901210706p124060d7g9b4b0b3ea83865d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64BE07218AEC47259D34D58450FB8D85@tara> Sorry Ghalib. Even we want you to sleep peacefully in your grave. We can say for sure that you wouldn't have liked the idea of Pakistan at the time of partition "You wouldn't have liked to go "Dilli ki galiyaan chod ke" leaving Delhi streets behind. Some of us also know that you wouldn't attribute your sher quoted below to a discussion about Pakistan and Talliban. This was your actual sher Iman mujhe roke hai Jo khinche hai udhar kufr, Kaba mere piche hai, kalisa mere aage. (the faithe stops me when heresy attracts me. Kaba is behind me and the church in front." ----- Original Message ----- From: "yasir ~يا سر" To: "sarai list" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths,Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > sorry its the other way: > > Eeman mujhe roke hai tho khainchay hai mujhay kufr > > [when faith holds me back, i am allured by heresy] > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:46 PM, yasir ~يا سر > wrote: > >> >> you have a bad case of : >> >> Eemaan mujhay khainchay hay tho rokay hai mujahay kufr >> >> [when faith allures me i am held back by heresy] >> >> i like color myself. >> >> best >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 3. God is best not invoked. My motive is selfish. Might draw attention >>> to >>> the Hindu (poster) depictions of the Divine. They might be seen as being >>> crude and obscene just as I judge many of them. >>> >>> We will be caught between "Taliban The Terrorist" and "God The >>> Terrorist". >>> Agar ek ne muaaf kiya, doosra nahi karega (If one forgives, the other >>> one >>> wont) >>> >>> K >>> >>> >>> --- On *Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر * wrote: >>> >>> From: yasir ~يا سر >>> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >>> myths about pakistan >>> To: "sarai list" >>> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 4:32 PM >>> >>> god help me :D >>> >>> the taliban cant tolerate this stuff and we can ? >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Kshmendra Kaul >>> Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> From the links provided by Yasir, was led to >>> http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/exhibition.htm AND >>> http://www.thehotspotonline.com/eyecandy/stuff/gallery01.htm >>> >>> Interesting sales pitch titles for some of the (Desi- Lollywood) >>> posters: >>> >>> - Market Girl >>> >>> - Beauty awaits ravaging by beast >>> >>> - Scheming Nasty >>> >>> - Maula Jat rides again >>> >>> - Blood lusting Noor >>> >>> - Uncle Bob from Lahore Pind >>> >>> - Bad hair day >>> >>> - Blow em away, Baby! >>> >>> - Beauty oblivious to the beast >>> >>> - Not to be messed with - Lahori Ghunda >>> >>> - all dressed up and nowhere to go >>> >>> - well if it ain't Joe Cool >>> >>> - Nargis of Obscene Theatre Dancing Fame >>> >>> - Time for a little frolic >>> >>> - one party too many! >>> >>> - coochie coo >>> >>> - Vamire Hooker >>> >>> - Wehshi Jat - flop remake >>> >>> - The Beast in Heat! >>> >>> - Bloodbath at Badmash Chowk >>> >>> - Chaudhry's Angels >>> >>> - Bad Girl Rani >>> >>> >>> KK >>> >>> --- On Wed, 1/21/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: >>> >>> > From: yasir ~يا سر >>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 >>> myths about pakistan >>> > To: "sarai list" >>> > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:01 PM >>> > no he comes from a sociology background, and writes on >>> > language/s in >>> > pakistan >>> > >>> > some movie posters for you : >>> > >>> > http://pakistaniat.com/2008/02/23/pakistan-lollywood-billboard-art/ >>> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mafimushkala/sets/72157594446206498/ >>> > >>> > and >>> > >>> > http://www.karachicineplex.com/timings/timings.htm >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Taha Mehmood >>> > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: >>> > >>> > > Thanks. Yasir!! I followed the link to the flickr >>> > acc., the posters are a >>> > > real treat, not much different from those that are >>> > printed in India though >>> > > but definitely more colorful. Just curious did Tariq >>> > Rehman saheb write some >>> > > book on posters too? >>> > > >>> > > T >>> > > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to >>> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >>> > header. >>> > To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in >>> the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 01:15:37 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:45:37 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan References: <732929.11563.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com><5af37bb0901190130k785429f9p286e02559d24714b@mail.gmail.com><65be9bf40901190724v67be8cb2r2f60bf11aa214e91@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901191624u79545aa1t87109d864a70bb07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BDD3783DA334F19BFBF283EAC56DE0B@tara> I have heard some songs on sada-e-huriyat. If you have a short wave radio you might try finding the station on your radio. The songs are about unfurling the Islamic flag on Red Fort, about destruction of Hindus (mostly referrred to as "monkey worshippers) You will like them, I did too. They are funny even if their message is destruction. I never heard such out of tune songs on the radio. ----- Original Message ----- From: "yasir ~يا سر" To: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan > Dear Taha > > No I have not looked at many posters, however on a trip to an afghan > refugee > camp on the border when the bombing in afghanistan was on, i did buy the > songs of the taliban which were sung without music. the voice/s were > melodious and there was a chorus in some songs - they sounded like slowly > sung chants. > > in the bus there the bus driver put it on a tape, which i learned later > was > a cassette designed as a magazine updating people on what was going on in > the afghanistan fight, with a new edition released every so often. in the > bus people listened for a while but soon were bad mouthing him. it turned > out that the conductor, a young guy was the one who wanted to blast it. he > had to shut up then, but he didnt give up... > > as for posters, i probably only know only ones that relate to 'broader > issues'. > see abro: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/abro/sets/72157604267486790/ > > I think someone has looked briefly at a history of wallchalkings as > political statements in karachi - I think in Language and Politics in > Pakistan by Tariq Rehman > > > best > > yasir > > > 2009/1/19 Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > >> Dear Yasir (Dear All ) >> >> Thank you for pointing out the role of wall chalkings in mobilization of >> people for 'jehad'. I think chalkings or writings on the wall are an >> important indicator of the socio-political mood of a space. In this >> regard, >> I want to stretch this idea of chalk writing as a form of mass >> communication, to posters, wall posters and how they are able to hold a >> muted conversation with a multitude. >> >> For instance, the article pasted below talks about posters as a graphic >> form of protest. >> >> An excerpt- >> >> Posters have a distinguished history as vehicles of protest, propaganda >> and >> commerce, from 15th-century broadsheets supporting the Protestant >> Reformation to 19th-century theater billboards by Henri de >> Toulouse-Lautrec. >> In the 20th century, politics and art merged in powerful propaganda >> posters >> in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. The American >> counterculture of the late 1960s inspired a renaissance of protest >> posters, >> in psychedelic colors. >> >> It would be interesting to know what sort of posters are in vogue in >> Pakistan today. I would like to believe that almost all of them would >> have a >> local flavor but certainly there must be some which relate to broader >> issues. >> >> May I suggest you to please share with us, if you can, your own >> reflections >> about how were posters related to Islamic jihad designed or framed.etc >> Were >> they similar or different to say posters distributed at sufi shrines, >> especially in terms of iconography and here I am, of course, >> specifically >> referring to Yusuf Saeed's monumental work on posters and syncretic >> cultures. >> >> Regards >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44847-2005Jun4.html >> >> Graphic Forms of Protest >> >> By Linda Hales >> Washington Post Staff Writer >> Saturday, June 4, 2005; Page C01 >> >> A graphic printed on a T-shirt demands, "Curb Your God." >> >> A poster for designer jeans shows one pant leg knotted, as if the wearer >> were an amputee. The words War Wear have been appended to the brand's >> label: >> Rifle. >> >> >> Another poster mimics Apple Computer's colorful advertising campaign for >> the iPod. Except this one is about "iRaq" and the logo is a bomb, not an >> apple. The black figure silhouetted against a hot pink background is not >> dancing to iTunes but is a hooded prisoner from Abu Ghraib, balancing on >> a >> box with hands attached to a white cord. >> >> These are three of more than 400 provocative, emotionally charged >> graphics >> in "The Design of Dissent: Socially and Politically Driven Graphics" >> (Rockport). The book of posters, buttons, illustrations and other >> graphics >> was compiled by Milton Glaser, dean of American graphic designers, with >> Mirko Ilic, a noted illustrator and art director. An exhibition of 100 >> designs opened yesterday at New York's School of Visual Arts, where >> Glaser >> and Ilic teach. >> >> In an age dominated by moving images, these freeze-frame visuals hold >> their >> own. They represent the activist strain of graphic design. Like >> contemporary >> advertising, it thrives on shock, wit and instant recognition. But as >> playwright Tony Kushner writes in the book's foreword, there must also be >> "some galling truth . . . imprisoned beneath the surface of public >> discourse" that causes a designer to fire a signal flare. >> >> Glaser calls the collection an international survey of "nontraditional >> dissenting opinion." The designer, who is best known for the "I H NY" >> logo, >> says that lately he has been focused on the importance of expressing >> dissent. The essence of his view is captured on a button he designed, >> which >> declares "DISSENT *Protects **Democracy*." >> >> "Once you say that dissent protects democracy, people get the idea right >> away," Glaser said by phone this week. "When you have dissenting opinion, >> it >> comes out of some idea that fairness or appropriateness has been >> violated." >> >> Work on the book began with a global call for submissions. Glaser and >> Ilic >> received more than a thousand richly varied examples. Most of those >> selected >> were created after 2000 and address politics, racism, corporate power, >> pollution, religion, media, animal rights and food. Three sections are >> devoted to war and strife -- in the former Yugoslavia, in Iraq and >> between >> Israel and Palestinians. Concepts of peace and equality get as much >> space. >> >> Images dominate all but 12 of the book's 240 pages. Minimal text includes >> an interview with Glaser. Ilic is represented by cover art for the >> alternative magazine World War 3 Illustrated showing a ferocious hound in >> camouflage fatigues preparing to devour a bone labeled Iraq. The caption >> does not indicate whether the artist was illustrating a story or drawing >> his >> own conclusions. The Bosnian-born New Yorker has described himself as an >> "individual anarchist" willing to "poke fun at any power, because all of >> them are corrupt." >> >> Emotions run high, whatever the topic, but techniques and symbols run the >> gamut. The iRaq poster by Copper Greene relies on parody. The T-shirt >> designer, Daniel Young, needed only typography to express concern that >> so-called divine directives are sparking violence and intolerance. The >> jeans >> were designed by Slovenian artist Tomato Kosir as a commentary on >> consumerism and war. The Coca-Cola logo appears in many guises. >> Fingerprints >> are popular images. So is raw meat. >> >> Samantha Hoover, assistant director of communications for the School of >> Visual Arts, says creative people tend to be liberal. But the book was >> not >> intended to be one-sided. Palestinian and Israeli points of view were >> included, Glaser points out. Communism is skewered. So is President Bush. >> A >> design team from Slovenia played off the American Dairy Association's >> "Got >> Milk?" campaign for a "Got Oil?" poster on which Bush sports a mustache >> of >> oil. The poster shows how astonishingly global advertising has become. >> >> Posters have a distinguished history as vehicles of protest, propaganda >> and >> commerce, from 15th-century broadsheets supporting the Protestant >> Reformation to 19th-century theater billboards by Henri de >> Toulouse-Lautrec. >> In the 20th century, politics and art merged in powerful propaganda >> posters >> in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. The American >> counterculture of the late 1960s inspired a renaissance of protest >> posters, >> in psychedelic colors. These days, Hoover senses renewed interest in >> public >> affairs. >> >> "Since 9/11, with the Iraqi war and all that's happening, twenty- and >> thirtysomethings are paying attention to current affairs in a different >> way," she says. >> >> Some issues are constant. In 1969, Dan Reisinger conveyed a message about >> Jewish emigration from the former Soviet Union by using the hammer and >> sickle as the "G" in "Let My People Go." More than 20 years later, he >> drew a >> poster warning of a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe. A >> recent >> poster by Turkish designer Bulent Erkmen for an Israeli client sought to >> address the sharing of power in Jerusalem. The word "equal" is presented >> as >> a page from a dictionary. All attempts at definition have been struck >> through with a red line. >> >> Chaz Maviyane-Davies produced gripping posters relating the United >> Nations >> Articles on Human Rights to an African audience. For Article 4, a figure >> wears free-flowing dreadlocks made of chains above the words, "No one >> should >> be subjected to slavery or servitude." >> >> Malaysian designer Theresa Tsang created three posters that protest the >> abuse of women. What appears to be the imprint of a lipstick kiss is an >> amalgam of photos of knuckles, glass shards and men beating women. >> >> Design can transform even grim topics. In Serbia, the Thea Line cosmetics >> company commissioned an antiwar poster using its product. The designer, >> Igor >> Avzner, turned lipstick tubes into a cartridge belt, which is worn by a >> fashion model. The message reads, "Make Up, Not War." >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:30 AM, yasir ~يا سر >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Rahul Asthana >> >wrote: >>> >>> > There are/were jihadi donation boxes in all the major cities of >>> Pakistan. >>> >>> Those, along with wall chalkings for 'jihadi camp training' were cleaned >>> up >>> by Musharraf in around 2002. so anything since then is underground and >>> not >>> tolerated. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 01:52:08 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:22:08 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan In-Reply-To: <64BE07218AEC47259D34D58450FB8D85@tara> References: <5af37bb0901210302h192aaa69y5639fa810c51547a@mail.gmail.com> <555327.27771.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0901210646t4dec3183r1a7789acfadd331c@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0901210706p124060d7g9b4b0b3ea83865d6@mail.gmail.com> <64BE07218AEC47259D34D58450FB8D85@tara> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901211222w1f7a18a0hb4d414f6a698d8ac@mail.gmail.com> http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ghalib/208/208_09.html?nagari :) From indiaonedge at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 01:52:42 2009 From: indiaonedge at gmail.com (indiaonedge wordpress) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:52:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Gay Agenda Message-ID: <7b288a440901211222g56006b9ew55a2a7b5631107b1@mail.gmail.com> The Gay Agenda How much of what Obama said was what you and I believed in. You and me - the gay, blogging, intellectual, dandy type. Our fathers (and mothers) fought hard for the comforts we enjoy. Our world padded with satin cushions and cool white Ipods, we pity the grubby next. Our ideals we make and remake continuously in our head; they are never called to test, they can stay there safe - shielded by the blood and guts of our fathers. The men and women who toiled and tilled this land. Who spoke out; fought, died, conquered. This is not our victory. It is theirs. We think there ay be no need to fight anymore. No cause to lose our lives in. And yet we are gracious in our privileges, cautious and mindful in our luxury - we give little and hope for the better of all. That is Obama's country. As a brilliant counter to W who exhorted his citizenry to shop after a crisis, O exhorted his to toil through one. Here, a man who rounds the smooth edges. WHo say - all can be Free, and Gay. Obama stands up for the promise of his father, and our fathers - and never for a moment may we think it is ours alone to claim. We stand in the shadows of those before us. And may only hope to do as well. http://indiaonedge.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/the-gay-agenda/ From nicheant at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 22 11:36:00 2009 From: nicheant at yahoo.co.uk (Nishant) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:06:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] The Real Modi Story Message-ID: <505812.57473.qm@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> The Real Modi Story Salil Tripathi ............. The story of the drop in Gujarat's share of projects under implementation is not widely known; Modi's governance hasn't helped the state overcome the damage that massacre caused ............. The canonization has begun. Ratan Tata says investors not yet in Gujarat are "stupid". Anil Ambani and Sunil Bharti Mittal hope to see Gujarat's chief minister, Narendra Modi, as India's prime minister. Kumar Mangalam Birla, Mukesh Ambani and Shashi Ruia have joined the chorus of approval. Businesses like Modi because he has rejuvenated Gujarat. Under his watch, the state has upgraded ports and improved the quality of roads dramatically. He is credited with reducing corruption, eliminating red tape, providing uninterrupted electricity to all villages and harnessing rainwater. The number of girls attending and staying in schools has risen. Gujarat's bureaucracy swears by Modi. At last week's Vibrant Gujarat Global Investors' Summit, investors promised projects worth Rs12 trillion, or $247 billion. That dwarfs commitments for the entire country. You might think that Gujarat is outracing and outpacing India, and Modi is singularly responsible for the boom. In fact, according to the Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy, Gujarat commanded a huge lead over other states: In September 1995, the state's share was 14.45% of all projects under implementation in the country. At 9.43%, its nearest rival, Maharashtra, was a poor second. Maharashtra overtook Gujarat, but in December 2001 its lead over Gujarat was less than a percentage point. Then something happened, and by September 2002, Gujarat's share fell to 8.78%; three years later, it was down to 7.67%, with Orissa ahead of Gujarat, and Karnataka close behind. Since then, Gujarat has recovered, but only slowly, and today commands 9.57% of investments in India. It is behind Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Maharashtra is only half a per cent behind, and Haryana, West Bengal and Karnataka are trying to catch up. That "something" is the post-Godhra violence. From 2002, smart money began investing elsewhere. It has since started returning, but despite Modi's administrative skills, his state no longer leads the inward investment tables. This is not to undermine Gujarat, but last week's planned investments are only memorandums of understanding (MoUs). A study of foreign direct investments in China in the 1990s showed that China's claimed foreign direct investment was typically six-eight times larger than actual inflow. The statistics included the cost of land the government was giving; most projects included loans from financial institutions, as well as other in-kind contributions. The figure of $247 billion should be seen in this perspective. The MoUs raise more questions. For example, a 10,000MW coal-fired thermal power plant costs Rs40,000 crore, but one such investment is claimed to be worth Rs87,000 crore. Granted, the project includes a 5,000-acre special economic zone (SEZ), but an SEZ does not have to cost more than a major power plant. Infrastructure analysts say the figures for megawatt generation and power project costs don't add up. Expansion plans for some ports and proposed townships appear significantly more than the cost of similar projects elsewhere in India. We must remember, then, that what were signed last week were MoUs, not cheques. The sobering reality is that Gujarat had the lead in 1995 which it lost after the post-Godhra violence, and is trying to regain its erstwhile pre-eminent position. The fundamentals to attract investments—industrial peace, great infrastructure and ancillary industries—preceded Modi's tenure. The Narmada dams were already under construction, workers polished diamonds in Palanpur, petrochemicals and cars were made in Vadodara, milk flowed from Anand, yarn churned out in Hazira and a refinery was being built in Jamnagar, much before Modi took office. Gujarat's rural prosperity is substantially, though not entirely, due to significant remittances from overseas Gujaratis. It is odd, therefore, to credit Modi with Gujarat's vibrancy. And it is hard not to blame his government for the colossal failure to protect civilians during the anti-Muslim violence in 2002. That alone disqualifies him from holding office. But Gujaratis have continued to elect him. Fair enough; but the rest of India does not have to do so. The story of the drop in Gujarat's share of projects under implementation is not widely known; Modi's governance hasn't helped the state overcome the damage that massacre caused. Money went elsewhere and it is returning only now. Modi's supporters say he has shown Muslims their place in India. He can probably make trains run on time as well. But at what cost to the nation? Anil Ambani quoted his father, the late Dhirubhai, who called Modi "lambi race ka ghoda", or the horse for the long race. The eyes of a champion thoroughbred are covered to prevent distractions and the jockey whips him, making him run faster. Such a horse only thinks of the destination, not how to get there. Another Gujarati—Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi—saw it differently: "Our progress towards the goal will be in exact proportion to the purity of our means… As the means, so the end." He did not rush headlong; he walked alone. Salil Tripathi is a writer based in London. http://www.livemint.com/2009/01/21220302/The-real-Modi-story.html From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 22 12:54:00 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:24:00 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-73 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901212324u28782758w878dd2b5916ed678@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-2676082,prtpage-1.cms The Times of India 'Dangerous, draconian, autocratic' 5 Jan 2008, 0108 hrs IST, TNN NEW DELHI: Lieutenant-governor Tejendra Khanna's announcement on Friday elicited mixed reactions from eminent lawyers and rights activists. Most though agreed on one count — giving policemen the power to interrogate citizens merely for not possessing a photo identification document is akin to making Delhi a police state. Only some felt that the security situation was dire enough to warrant such a move. Describing the move as "dangerous and uncalled for" Rajinder Sacchar, former chief justice Delhi High Court and former president, People's Union for Civil Liberties said: "So many people in the city do not even have photo i-cards, this is like putting the blame for the government's own failures on hapless citizens. This is so stupid, silly and autocratic that it sounds like some order from the 15th century and they are just trying to cover up their own lack of surveillance. Where will all these migrant workers in the city get i-cards from?" Echoing his sentiments, lawyer Prashant Bhusan said: "This is a draconian thing to do and will basically put people at the mercy of policemen. A lot of the poor people in the city do not have a photo identification — as I have been saying for many years now. What will they do? This will put a lot of undue power in the hands of the police force, which is not a good thing." The move would, on the face of it at least, sound like a plan to convert Delhi into a police state, agreed lawyer P N Lekhi. But he was clear that if the interests of security be thus served, for a short duration till the Republic Day at least, the move could yield results. "For the purpose of ensuring security against terror groups, it might be essential to verify the identities of people in Delhi and ascertain that their intentions are not deleterious to the public. After what happened in Rampur and the threats of terrorists on the one hand and Naxals on the other, the apparently drastic exercise may be necessary at least to ensure that January 26 passes off peacefully," Lakhi said. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 22 12:55:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:25:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-74 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901212325w44a06925v22ef7510311afb6f@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/No_harassment_in_the_name_of_identity_proof_Delhi_Police/articleshow/2679098.cms The Times of India Delhi No harassment in the name of identity proof: Delhi Police 6 Jan 2008, 2101 hrs IST, PTI NEW DELHI: With the Lieutenant Governor's announcement of making photo identity cards compulsory receiving flak from various quarters, Delhi Police on Sunday tried to allay fears of the citizens by saying that they would not be harassed in the name of mandatory checking but only suspicious persons would be checked. "There is no case for any apprehension. It is not that whenever a policeman sees a man, he would ask for the ID card. Only suspicious people will be asked to produce ID cards and we will ensure that nobody is harassed," Delhi Police spokesperson Rajan Bhagat said. He said the police will come out with a newspaper advertisement on January 10 giving details about the proposal announced by Lt. Governor Tejinder Khanna last Friday. Citing increasing terror incidents and other security concerns, Khanna had announced that everyone in the NCR will have to carry a photo ID card from January 15 and be ready for a random checking by police. Bhagat said, people can use PAN cards, passports, ration cards, college ID cards or documents issued by private organisations as identity proofs. "We appeal to the people to carry their ID cards with them which can help in verifying their identity. There will be random checking, but it will not be done in a manner that leads to harassment," he said. As the move was criticised by political parties, the Lt. Governor's office issued a clarification last night, saying people who are going for their routine work would not be harassed. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 22 12:57:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:27:44 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-75 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901212327k467ba49ap8b5e326f183e38e4@mail.gmail.com> http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/jan/871684.htm Delhi citizens told to carry photo ID from January 15 Date: 2008-1-6 New Delhi: BJP yesterday dubbed as "impractical" Delhi Government's move to make it mandatory for everybody in the capital to possess a photo identity card. Instead, it asked the Central Government to create a national citizen register and issue multi-purpose cards to all citizens to fulfill security concerns. "We can understand the Lt Governor's intention. But in reality, 50 per cent of people in Delhi do not possess any kind of identity card," BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar said. "In the present situation, the suggestion seems to be impractical," he told reporters here. Javadekar said it is to be seen whether Delhi Lt Governor's Tejinder Khanna's suggestion fulfills the basic aim of addressing security concerns or is reduced to just checking of citizens. "We will have to wait and see whether it works or troubles the people," he added. Starting from January 15, citizens of Delhi would have to carry their ID cards at all times or they could be in trouble with the law. Delhi's Lieutenant Governor had issued the order citing the need to tighten security after recent terror attacks. The police can ask the citizens for identity proofs and carry out random checks whenever they choose to. "We will be doing random checks and who ever we find suspicious will be asked for ID," said YS Dadwal, Commissioner, Delhi Police. The identity card could be in the form of a photo ID, ration card, school cards, passport or even an office I-card, provided the company is registered with the police. Failure to produce the identity cards will require action against the citizens. The order is likely to have a large impact on the migrant population in the city. The LG of Delhi yesterday submitted his annual report and he stressed on making Delhi a safe city. Tejinder Khanna, Lieutenant Governor of Delhi said, "It's nothing that is complicated, it's for the safety of all the residents here." The LG also stated that all the drivers in Delhi need to have licences issued to them by the Delhi government. Some say that while this measure justifies the rule for security purposes, it could become a way for the police to harass the citizens. Prashant Bhushan, Senior Supreme Court lawyer said such strictures are only symptomatic of a police state. Dr Kiran Bedi, former Director General, Bureau of Police Research and Development has welcomed the move and said that it is a great idea. From pranesh at cis-india.org Thu Jan 22 15:57:16 2009 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:57:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Event | Abhishek Hazra: Inheritance of Alphanumeric Characters Message-ID: <4785f1e20901220227p158908b9id7407e8e64bea0ce@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, CIS and Abhishek Hazra welcome you to a talk on 'Inheritance of Alphanumeric Characters', Abhishek's recent body of work currently on display at Gallery SKE, Bangalore. These works attempt to engage with the social history of science and the way the practice of science is deeply contextualised within the larger discourse of power and knowledge systems. It is also about negotiating with the 'inheritance' of discourses like Orientalism or Stalinism and finding ways of engaging critically with that legacy. At one level, the title, 'Inheritance of Alphanumeric Characters' can be parsed as an allusion to the centrality of language in this entire process. It is also a reference to the phrase 'Inheritance of Acquired Characters', a popular one-liner on Lamarkism, an influential early 19th century theory of evolution that was discredited by the Darwinian-Mendelian paradigm. Abhishek uses multiple modalities - video and spoken word performance to artist's books and large-scale digital prints – to articulate his ongoing explorations. Date and Time: Saturday, 24 January 2009, 5.00 pm - 6.00 pm Venue: Centre for Internet and Society, No. D2, 3rd Floor, Sheriff Chambers, 14, Cunningham Road, Bangalore - 560052 Phone: +91 80 4092 6283 Artist Profile: Abhishek Hazra is a visual artist based in Bangalore. His work explores the intersections between technology and culture through the narrative device of a 'visual fable'. He is also interested in the social history of scientific practices, and his current, ongoing project attempts to explore the history of science research in colonial India. Abhishek works with animated shorts and digital slideshows that often integrate textual fragments drawn from fictional scenarios. He is also interested in the way in which the languages of science journalism and information visualisation participate in the complex dynamics of 'knowledge dissemination' and 'translation'. Recent shows include First Left, Second Right, a 3 person show at Thomas Erben Gallery, New York with Yamini Nayar and Kiran Subbaiah; Horn Please. Narratives in Contemporary Indian Art (Curated by Bernhard Fibicher and Suman Gopinath), Kunstmuseum Bern and Ghosts in the Machine and other Fables: an exhibition of video, sound and interactive works at Apeejay Media Gallery, New Delhi (Curated by Pooja Sood). A brief overview of some of his works can be found here: http://abhishekhazra.blogspot.com/ Regards, Pranesh -- Pranesh Prakash Programme Manager Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 W: http://cis-india.org From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 22 21:11:54 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:41:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Millionniares" and "slumdogs" unite Message-ID: <818670.19983.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> 21 January, 2009 Slumdogs Of The World Unite We live in times when satire is redundant—for what can beat real news such as this? An office bearer of a slum dwellers’ body has filed a defamation case against music director A R Rahman and actor Anil Kapoor alleging that the award winning film Slumdog Millionaire calls Indians dogs and slum dwellers slum dogs. [...] The meaning of ‘Slumdog Millionaire’ in Hindi is the millionaire dog of slum-dwellers, Vishwakarma alleged, adding that such a name was a violation of human rights and honour. Vishwakarma said he has already approached the national and state human rights commissions for necessary action against Rahman and Kapoor, who portrays the role of a game show host in the film. On an email group I’m part of, Devangshu Datta says, “Now what we need is a millionaire to file alleging insult at being compared to a slum dog.” And lo, Hari Shenoy does the needful (see below). Also, Paras Berawala suggests: “Let’s also draft a petition by dog owners against Tapeshwar Vishwakarma for implying that ‘dog’ is an insulting word.” The possibilities for such WTFness are endless: Someone can sue the makers of Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi on behalf of God, alleging that they insult God by implying that one can see Her in any random person. Every Indian Idol contestant criticized by Javed Akhtar can sue him for the way his son sang in Rock On. The Chinese government and the Chandni Chowk mohalla committee can sue Akshay Kumar for you-know-what. Torture academies can sue Himessss Reshammiya for making them redundant. And so on and on. Immense potential simmers. http://indiauncut.com/iublog/article/slumdogs-of-the-world-unite/ ----- Millionaires of India, Unite !!! We the undersigned millionaires, wish to file a defamation case against music director A.R.Rahman, Anil Kapoor, Danny Boyle, Dev Patel, that cute girl who stars opposite him and the assistant director to Danny Boyle who is good-looking but whose name I can’t remember right now. Heck, we’ll even throw in Vikas Swarup for having written the book that inspired the movie in the first place, and the Golden Globes and the AMPAS for giving this movie so much publicity as co-defendants. To file this defamation suit, we are collecting signatures for an online petition which you can sign by leaving a comment on this post. We object strongly, just like our fellow countryman Tapeshwar Vishwakarma (who has also filed suit against the aforementioned characters, both fictional and real), to being equated to dogs from the slums. We have worked hard for our millions, and it seems unfair to be socially bracketed along with non-millionaires. Of course, Mr.Vishwakarma’s argument stems from the other end of the spectrum, and he’s angry about how the movie title allegedly violates the human rights and the honour of slum-dwellers. We millionaires would also like to get publicity for kicks, and think it would be a good idea to get more of our kind to sign this particular petition so that us rich people don’t remain an oppressed lot. We need to show the world that we can get mileage out of a successful movie should we feel like it. So come one, and come all. Let us join hands in ensuring that we millionaires aren’t treated shabbily simply because we’ve worked hard to get where we are. * - (Zimbabwean) $ 1,000,000 = INR 2.3. Some slum dwellers, as a consequence, would be millionaires too, and if Tapeshwar Vishwakarma is ok, they can join our crusade as well. http://harishenoy.com/blog/?p=987 From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 02:35:06 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:35:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Real Modi Story In-Reply-To: <505812.57473.qm@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <505812.57473.qm@web27901.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Nishant Thanks for the story you sent. And for all of you, the following link continues from where Nishant has left. This has got to do with the actual position of investments in Gujarat, compared to the mighty claims made by Modi. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/report-by-own-govt-punctures-modis-gujarat-hype/413765/0 >From Indian Express: Report by own Govt punctures Modi's Gujarat hype *Ahmedabad:* In the run-up to the Vibrant Gujarat Global Investors Summit 2009 (VGGIS) earlier this month, Chief Minister Narendra Modi claimed that 61 per cent of the investments promised during the VGGIS in 2003, 2005 and 2007 had come Gujarat's way but data compiled by his own Governmentshows otherwise — actual investment made until 2007 was less than 21 per cent of what was promised. A state government document accessed by 'The Indian Express' says that out of the proposed total investment of Rs 633,829.9 crore during the VGGIS melas of 2003, 2005 and 2007, only Rs 130,354.36 crore materialised. This works out to 20.5 per cent, as against the 61 per cent Modi announced. But for even this rate, all of some Rs 1,030 crore worth of projects, which the document says are still at a "planning stage", have to fructify. The 52 page document of MoUs and investment statistics and analyses (IC/IM.CS Rev Meet/3431) was put together by the Industries Commissioner for the Chief Secretary's review meeting on December 3, 2008. The document also puts a question mark on the projected employment-generation prowess of the Vibrant Gujarat meets. While Modi projected 25 lakh new jobs from the over 8,500 MoUs signed during the fourth VGGIS last fortnight, the document indicates that Gujarat actually got just 12.3 per cent of the 13,23,452 jobs promised in the 760 MoUs signed during the three VGGIS from 2003. The document also suggests that the gap between proposed and actual investments has been widening perceptibly with each VGGIS meet while the number of MoUs signed and their worth, not the volume of actually implemented investment, is used for official projection of the success of these meets. As per the document, of the Rs 66,068.5 crore worth of investment promised at the 2003 VGGIS meet, the actual investment, including projects still being implemented, was Rs 30,299.97 crore — a conversion rate of 45.86 per cent. Only Rs 20,942.3 crore worth of investment materialised from the Rs 102,460.41 crore worth of MoUs signed at the 2005 VGGIS, an effective success rate of 20.4 per cent. This rate was lower at the next VGGIS and IT Summit in 2007 — of the combined committed investment of Rs 465,301 crore, only Rs 79,112.09 crore came in, including projects still considered to be at the planning stage. Only 106,648 of the promised 13,21,635 jobs came to Gujarat, which works out to just 8 per cent. Incidentally, these figures discussed at the Chief Secretary's review meeting were lower than what the same Industries commissionerate had provided, in response to an RTI application for the same period. The RTI reply had pegged the success rate of the 2005 and 2007 VGGIS at an average 25.25 per cent. M Sahu, Managing Director of Gujarat Industrial Development Corporation, who piloted the 2009 VGGIS presentations along with Modi and played a lead role in organising the meet, told The 'Indian Express' that figures in the document discussed at the Chief Secretary's review meeting with 17 senior state bureaucrats were not "authentic final figures". "The fact is, investors seldom give us real figures but only some statistics that they choose to, until they commence operation. We need to look at their balance sheet at the end of each year to find out actual investments made. We have no monitoring mechanism to decide if what they give us are actual figures. So we use the ones given only for discussion and periodic review purposes," Sahu said. To assess success, he said the government would go by the number of MoUs, out of the total signed at each VGGIS, that have been commissioned or are under implementation. The quantum of investment that is projected to have actually happened cannot be a yardstick, he said. >From my side: I remember what Mr. Ashish Nandy, had written after the victory of 2007 elections. Modi has managed to comfortably win over the elite sections of society cutting across castes, and by doing so, he has allowed the disastrous model of development, which this country has been following since independence, which is based on a few enjoying the fruits of resources belonging to many. Not only Muslims, but tribals, fishermen, farmers and women are suffering a lot under his regime. Articles relating to this have been posted and will continue to be posted. Since the Modi mania is sweeping across the elites, it's high time somebody takes the battle to the maniac himself and takes the backwards, the downtrodden and those left over by the current model of development. Otherwise, the entire India may soon have to face the music of a man playing havoc with the culture and traditions of India. Regards Rakesh From anansi1 at earthlink.net Fri Jan 23 03:52:28 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:22:28 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] TONITE - Artist Dialog - Columbia University, Carol Becker Message-ID: <20478549.1232662949936.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey you all - I want to extend an invitation to the list to come to the third artist dialog during my gallery show - it's with Carol Becker, Dean of Columbia University's School of the Arts. We have had an excellent response to the show, and there have been many people from a wide range of backgrounds coming to check out the show. I have a large gallery show. It's at Robert Miller Gallery, and it's about Antarctica through the prism of landscape composition. I'd like to invite you all over to check out the show. We're having artist dialogs about environmental issues and contemporary art and electronic music. So far the dialogs have been with Laura Kuhn (Director of John Cage's estate), Peter Halley, and upcoming are Grammy award winning composers Carter Burwell (he did the score for "No Country for Old Men" and Paul Cantelone (Julian Schnabel's sound track composer, and who also works with Oliver Stone - he did the score to Stone's recent film "W"). The show opened on Jan 8, 2009. There will be artist/composer dialogs every Thursday of January around my show. The trailer for the project is at: www.djspooky.com/art/terra_nova.php I hope eyou can make it to one of the artist dialogs. - Hide quoted text - in peace, Paul So far: the dialogs are as follows: Gallery show opens on Jan 8, 2009 Then: Every Thursday of January 6-8pm Sound + Image: Composers in dialog about contemporary art and composition "Meet The Composer" is media sponsor for the events. Sound + Image Laura Kuhn - Director of the John Cage Trust Foundation is in dialog with me on Jan 10 Peter Halley - Chair of Yale University's Art Department for Painting is in dialog with me on Jan 15 Carol Becker - Dean of Columbia University's School of The Arts is in dialog with me on Jan 22 Paul Cantalone (Oliver Stone's sound track composer - did the score for W), Carter Burwell (soundtrack composer for No Country for Old Men), and Ronen Givony (curator, Wordless Music Festival), are in dialog with me on Jan 29 Here's the press release for the project: North/South Robert Miller Gallery is pleased to announce its first exhibition of the work of Paul Miller. In 2008 Miller went to Antarctica to shoot a film about the sound of ice, and ended up creating an installation out of the journey. For Robert Miller Gallery, Paul Miller recasts the epic detritus of the art and other cultural worlds as skillfully handled archival video samplings, digital prints, and drawings, calling into question the value of appropriation and the status of the copy. Finding inspiration in historic documents and films like James F. Cook's infamous 1912 film "The Truth about the Pole" (a false narrative made by the "explorer" using the North Pole as a film studio, Cook tried to portray himself in a documentary he self-financed as the true discoverer of the North Pole), and rare images of Admiral Byrd's 1939 voyage to the South Pole, Miller explores the range of "truth" in modern portrayals of the explorer's path. In 2007-2008 Miller spent four weeks in Antarctica re-tracing several explorers' journeys and with his "North/South" show at Robert Miller gallery, he reconstructs a collage of their journals and ephemera in multiple contexts. Using materials as diverse as John Cage's 1938 "Imaginary Landscape #1" as an inspiration (it was the first composition written for turntables) Miller looks at how documents and archival materials influence perception of history and the search for the explorer's goal of defining new frontiers. In "North/South" he deftly recontextualizes the rhetorical tropes of music notation and graphic design to mine the intersection of public and personal. A deejay and writer, Miller maps his ongoing relationship with the past, present, and future of music, using record collections, musical taxonomies, and play-lists as impetus for portraits and cultural critiques to blur the lines between how composers create and artists design work based on a seamless dialog between "sampling" and originality. This exhibition of new work will incorporate digital prints, works on paper, and a video installation to define a sonic landscape/timeline that begins around the turn of the first millennium and projects centuries ahead into the future for concepts such as "A Manifesto for a People's Republic of Antarctica." Drawing on a history of music's ups and downs in terms of mountains and valleys, water and above all, ice, Miller expands on the tradition of landscape portraiture, creating a topography of music spanning across every wall of the gallery. North/South is comprised of four sections: 1) Notations – a contemporary response to John Cage, 2) Appropriation of O, a collaboration with artist Ann Hamilton, 3) Rodchenko, Revisited – an exploration of Miller's graphic design of prints for a fictional revolution in Antarctica, and 4) North/South – a video installation juxtaposing Admiral Byrd and James F. Cook's respective voyages to the South and North Poles, with historical documents of other famous and infamous voyages to Antarctica and the Arctic. Miller translates the possibilities of music's futures into graphic terms of an almost science-fictional account in images of a revolution in Antarctica. His backward and forward glance, though, embraces its own subjective account, bringing Miller's own thoughts on history (and its representation) to the forefront. His "People's Republic of Antarctica" does not attempt to be a definitive narrative on music's relationship to revolution, but instead one that exists at the interface of his personal vision and that of a shared popular culture. Miller's video installation is an acoustic portrait of Antarctica's relationship to the "Great Game" of national interests in claiming the wilderness of the South Pole. Miller's composed score for the video materials is based on gamelan shadow theater, and electronic music's ability to re-define geography's relationship to "authenticity" – natural sounds versus their reconstruction in digital media are motifs for the composition that accompanies the installation. While using sound within installations has a tradition in contemporary art, Miller conflates its use within a fine-art context with other ways in which music reaches the public. Miller postulates that you are your own archive. His composition "Terra Nova" was written while he was in Antarctica for 4 weeks, and it offers an extended trip through Miller's sound art palette. Paul Miller was born in 1970 in New York. In 2004, his exhibition Rebirth of a Nation, a remix of D.W. Griffith's infamous "Birth of a Nation" was installed as "Path is Prologue" where it premiered at the Paula Cooper Gallery, and then traveled as a live multi-media opera to over fifty widely acclaimed venues, such as the Herod Atticus Theater at the base of the Acropolis and the Théâtre du Châtelet in Paris. His works have been performed at locations as diverse as the Tate Modern and The Guggenheim and he has had numerous exhibitions in the United States and abroad, including solo shows at the Annina Nosei Gallery and he has also curated group exhibits at Jeffrey Deitch gallery. In addition, Miller has been included in the 1997 and 2002 Whitney Biennial, the 2004 Venice Biennial of Architecture, and 2007 Venice Biennial's "Africa Pavilion." In 2004 he published a critically acclaimed and award winning book "Rhythm Science" about the relationship of graphic design and contemporary music, and in 2008, he edited an anthology of writings on sound art, digital media, and contemporary composition entitled "Sound Unbound" (both, MIT Press), featuring Pierre Boulez, Steve Reich, Hans Ulrich Obrist, Brian Eno, Moby, Chuck D, Saul Williams, Jonathan Lethem, Daphne Keller (Senior Legal Counsel to Google) and many others. In addition to his art works, he tours the world constantly as Dj Spooky - a very "in-demand" world famous dj. He currently lives and works in New York. Terra Nova, the composition based on Miller's journey to Antarctica will be premiering in NY as a headlining event of Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival 2009, and will tour opera houses for the next several years. The Robert Miller Gallery 524 W26th Street New York New York, 10001 Tel: 1 212 366 4774 Fax: 1 212 366 4454 Email: rmg at robertmillergallery.com Gallery Hours: Tuesday Through Saturday, 10am to 6pm From patrice at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 23 04:12:56 2009 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:42:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Bombay & The Swinging Sixties Message-ID: <20090122224256.GD4674@xs4all.nl> bwo Goa-Research-Net/ Patrick de Souza This one is not about Goa but about Bombay. You see the story of jazz in Bombay (and for that matter India) was written by Goans. So do do read on and for those of you who were in Bombay in the 1960's ......enjoy this walk down memory lane Bombay & The Swinging Sixties Stanley Pinto old Bombay boy and night club pianist, describes the rocking times that the city was witness to in the 1960s. A man called Chris Perry died in Mumbai a few weeks ago. The news didn't send even the tiniest ripple out onto the turgid waters of this restless megalopolis. In its headlong rush into tomorrow, Mumbai has become a city uncaring of the yesterdays from which its today is cast; constantly moulting, constantly and unconcernedly shedding memories of times past. Chris Perry is one such forgotten memory of the great jazz age of Mumbai that once was Bombay. Alongside Hecke Kingdom and Norman Mobsby and Tony Pinto and Neville Thomas and Seby Dias and Sweet Lorraine and Wendy and... but I'm getting ahead of my story about the long-ago-and-far-away nightlife of Bombay. A scene of a hundred (or so it seemed) jazz dives and cabarets that made Bombay the centre of India's entertainment world in the 60s, 70s and 80s. I discovered this exciting world as a 16-year-old in 1959 when I ran into Dorothy Jones on Colaba Causeway. Dorothy was the pianist who accompanied all comers on the late great impressario Hamid Sayani's Ovaltine Amateur Hour over Radio Ceylon, the FM radio of its time. Teetering on impossible stiletto heels, her red hair crowned by a magnificent tres chic turban, she enveloped me in a deliciously bosomy hug. Hello luv, how lovely to see you, do you still sing, how is your piano playing, you must come and see us at Berry's, come to the jam session next Sunday morning. And she was gone in a cloudburst of Channel No. 5. Sunday morning couldn't come around soon enough. When it did, I ducked my sainted mother after church, dashed off to the nearby railway station, and ten minutes later there I was at Berry's little restaurant, just past the Tea Centre on Churchgate Street. The band was already swinging: Dorothy at the piano was the Marian McPartland of Bombay's jazz. Her son Robin on drums, the elegant Percy Borthwick on bass and behind the largest dark glasses I'd ever seen, Dennis Rosario, a magnificent guitarist in the Barney Kessel style. A reed of a man, Georgie Rich, who later became a good friend, was doing a Mel Torme on Sweet Georgia Brown. The joint, to use Cab Calloway's signature phrase, was jumping, and in ten minutes it changed my take on life in the fast line. I'd discovered the magical, mesmerising, unashamedly decadent and just slightly seedy world of life and dark. At the far end of Churchgate Street, just across from today's Jazz by the Bay (which didn't exist then) was the bistro Napoli. No live band but with Bombay's first and only juke box, very popular with the college set. Almost next door was The Ambassador hotel, lair of Jack Voyantzis, it's Greek owner, a beautiful woman always on his arm, a giant Havana ever between his teeth. The restaurant at the hotel was called The Other Room and India's most reputed jazz agglomeration. The Tony Pinto Quartet, was in residence. Tony Pinto was a short, bald martinet of a man who drilled his band to perfection in polished, if somewhat pre-meditated, jazz arrangements. The quartet was fronted by Norman Mobsby on tenor saxophone, as aggressive as Coleman Hawkins, as gentle as Ben Webster. The Other Room was where the well-heeled went to dinner. Every night was black tie night, and you were Social Register if Jack knew your first name and your wife well enough to kiss her gently on the mouth. The wives seldom resisted, I might add. Fifty yards down was Bombelli's, Swiss Freddi's eponymous restaurant. Advertising men gathered in its al fresco forecourt each evening, sipping the only genuine (or so Freddie said) cappuccinos in town, made from a shiny, hissing coffee machine. A trio played at nights. It was all very Continental. Right next door, over a fence so low you conveniently held conversations and exchanged criossants for pakodas across it, was Berry's. As Indian as it's neighbour wasn't. The Tandoori Butter Chicken to die for. And the Dorothy Jones Quartet with Marguerite at the mike, as the advertising said. A few years later, after Dorothy and all of her band had emigrated to the UK, I led my own trio there. Across Berry's was the original Gaylord restaurant. The band was led by Ken Cumine, India's only jazz violinist, replete with soft suits of pure cashmere, a shiny white violin and radiant daughter Sweet Lorraine at the microphone. Around the corner, just across from the Eros cinema, was the Astoria hotel with its famous Venice restaurant. Famous because this was the jazz musicians' jazz hideout. For years, the diminutive trumpeter Chris Perry led his quintet there. There was the incomparable Felix Torcato on piano; years later he moved to Calcutta, first leading a wonderful quarter and later a big band at the Oberoi Grand, with his spectacular wife Diane as partner and singer. On tenor saxophone with Chris was his brother Paul, a happy laughing buddha of a man. And out in front was Molly, a singer in the Sarah Vaughn mould, one of the best we've ever seen in the country. Some years later, the Astoria opened a second restaurant. They called it Skyline and it opened with a young alto saxophonist who was continued over the next three decades to dominate the Indian jazz scene. The man was Braz Gonsalves and what a heart-stopping quartet it was. Xavier Fernandes, the most cerebral pianist of his time, Leslie Godinho, the 'dada' of the Hindi film percussionists on drums and... dashed if I can recall the bassist. I think perhaps it was Dinshaw 'Balsi' Balsara, advertising art director and clothes horse who later went on to become one of Asia's most successful commercial photographers in Hong Kong. When Chris Perry moved on to Calcutta, Braz shifted to the Venice. The quartet grew into a quintet with the addition of a tenor saxophonist. Leslie made way for Wency, the most dynamic young drummer of his era, and Bombay rocked to the Cannonball Adderley sound. For almost a decade Venice was the meeting place for jazz men from all over the country and indeed the world. Dave Brubeck visited and sat in, regal if a little incongruous in his particular jazz genre. Duke Ellington came two nights in a row after he discovered half his orchestra moonlighting with Braz and the gang. Venice was the Blue Note of India's swingingest jazz scene and would we miss a single evening of it? Perish the thought. Across the road at the Ritz hotel was The Little Hut. Neville Thomas, one of the most dashing men around town, led a group called Three Guys and a Doll. The luscious Shirley Myers was the doll. (Thirty years later I met Shirley one evening at Jazz at the Bay and she's still a doll!) Later, when Molly returned from Calcutta to marry her piano player sweetheart Mervyn, they took over at The Little Hut for many years. >From that spot, it was a brisk walk past Flora Fountain, where, plumb opposite Akbarally's, were Bistro and Volga, the two most popular haunts of the younger set. Seby Dias held court at Bistro, with my school friend Johnny at the piano and a hugely talented young lady called Ursula at the mike. She was the daughter of one of India's best known orchestra leaders of the big band era. Chic Chocolate, as unprepossessing as Chic was dashing, and just as gifted. At Volga next door Hecke Kingdom's Quartet held sway. Hecke was India's only baritone sax man, a grandfatherly man, gentle and wise. In delightful contrast, the trio that backed him was more mischief than a tribe of monkeys. Richie Marquis on piano, Percy on bass and Maxie on drums. But what an unbelievable prolific trio it was. There probably hasn't been another like it since. Off the beaten track at Kala Ghoda, around the corner from Khyber restaurant, suddenly, from nowhere, a restaurant called La Bella opened in 1961. And it opened with a British sextet called the Margaret Mason band, with Margie Mason herself on an enthralling instrument we had never seen before: the vibraharp. As college kids, we swiftly became habitues of the 11.00 a.m. coffee session. All it took was 75p for the Espresso, not to mention the continuous acts of petty larceny to find that princely sum six days a week. And finally, across from the Yacht Club at Dhanraj Mahal, there was the Alibaba where now stands a Chinese restaurant. George Fernandes on piano, Cassie on bass and Louis Armstrong vocals. Wilfred on drums. In time, riding the crest of the jazz juggernaut, these niteries were joined by clubs at the Taj Mahal hotel, the Oberoi, the Nataraj on Marine Drive, the Shalimar at Kemp's Corner, the Sundowner at the Sun'n'Sand, and restaurants like the Blue Nile at New Marine Lines, the Talk of the Town on Marine Drive and the second Bombelli's at Worli. With them came new young stars. Iqbal Singh, the turbaned Navy ensign doing his frantic Elvis Presly thing. Bonnie Remedios, India's Fats Domino. Sunder the Gay Caballero. Not quite jazz but what the hell. And there was this callow, beardless fellow, barely out of short pants, who sat in on five minutes' notice for pianists all over town when they called in sick. Tony Pinto gave him lessons in jazz progressions so he'd stop inventing 'Chinese' chords of his own. Hecke Kingdom advised him to think long and hard about wanting to make this life a profession, not for someone who has a subscription to TIME magzine, he'd say, only half jokingly. And the cabaret girls were inordinately protective of him because he accompanied them on the piano impeccably, not asking for 'anything' in return. Then, when he inevitably did, they'd grown to like him enough to gleefully acquiesce. Life was grand. Till one day it was gone. Suddenly, unexpectedly. Sadly. And much, much before it changed its name, Bombay metamorphosed into Mumbai. We were left with a handful of memories. Now they too have faded.............................. ----- End forwarded message ----- From iwasthere2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 23 07:45:17 2009 From: iwasthere2000 at yahoo.com (S.Shashidhar) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Millionniares" and "slumdogs" unite References: <818670.19983.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <993099.50549.qm@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Menaka Gandhi and PETA will be soon filing a suit on the association from Bihar for taking offence to be compared to a dog...... man ----- Original Message ---- From: Yousuf To: sarai list Cc: CACDelhi at yahoogroups.co.in Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 21:11:54 Subject: [Reader-list] "Millionniares" and "slumdogs" unite 21 January, 2009 Slumdogs Of The World Unite We live in times when satire is redundant—for what can beat real news such as this? An office bearer of a slum dwellers’ body has filed a defamation case against music director A R Rahman and actor Anil Kapoor alleging that the award winning film Slumdog Millionaire calls Indians dogs and slum dwellers slum dogs. [...] The meaning of ‘Slumdog Millionaire’ in Hindi is the millionaire dog of slum-dwellers, Vishwakarma alleged, adding that such a name was a violation of human rights and honour. Vishwakarma said he has already approached the national and state human rights commissions for necessary action against Rahman and Kapoor, who portrays the role of a game show host in the film. On an email group I’m part of, Devangshu Datta says, “Now what we need is a millionaire to file alleging insult at being compared to a slum dog.” And lo, Hari Shenoy does the needful (see below). Also, Paras Berawala suggests: “Let’s also draft a petition by dog owners against Tapeshwar Vishwakarma for implying that ‘dog’ is an insulting word.” The possibilities for such WTFness are endless: Someone can sue the makers of Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi on behalf of God, alleging that they insult God by implying that one can see Her in any random person. Every Indian Idol contestant criticized by Javed Akhtar can sue him for the way his son sang in Rock On. The Chinese government and the Chandni Chowk mohalla committee can sue Akshay Kumar for you-know-what. Torture academies can sue Himessss Reshammiya for making them redundant. And so on and on. Immense potential simmers. http://indiauncut.com/iublog/article/slumdogs-of-the-world-unite/ ----- Millionaires of India, Unite !!! We the undersigned millionaires, wish to file a defamation case against music director A.R.Rahman, Anil Kapoor, Danny Boyle, Dev Patel, that cute girl who stars opposite him and the assistant director to Danny Boyle who is good-looking but whose name I can’t remember right now. Heck, we’ll even throw in Vikas Swarup for having written the book that inspired the movie in the first place, and the Golden Globes and the AMPAS for giving this movie so much publicity as co-defendants. To file this defamation suit, we are collecting signatures for an online petition which you can sign by leaving a comment on this post. We object strongly, just like our fellow countryman Tapeshwar Vishwakarma (who has also filed suit against the aforementioned characters, both fictional and real), to being equated to dogs from the slums. We have worked hard for our millions, and it seems unfair to be socially bracketed along with non-millionaires. Of course, Mr.Vishwakarma’s argument stems from the other end of the spectrum, and he’s angry about how the movie title allegedly violates the human rights and the honour of slum-dwellers. We millionaires would also like to get publicity for kicks, and think it would be a good idea to get more of our kind to sign this particular petition so that us rich people don’t remain an oppressed lot. We need to show the world that we can get mileage out of a successful movie should we feel like it. So come one, and come all. Let us join hands in ensuring that we millionaires aren’t treated shabbily simply because we’ve worked hard to get where we are. * - (Zimbabwean) $ 1,000,000 = INR 2.3. Some slum dwellers, as a consequence, would be millionaires too, and if Tapeshwar Vishwakarma is ok, they can join our crusade as well. http://harishenoy.com/blog/?p=987       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 09:56:03 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:56:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?In_11_Ashok_Chakras=2C_Jamia=92s_S?= =?windows-1252?q?harma_and_six_Mumbai_heroes?= Message-ID: <6353c690901222026n7d1ddb95vcf1ec82837adeb2c@mail.gmail.com> We all are proud of them all. They are the real heros of our nation fighting against the evil and extremist mindset. Let us all together salute these brave Jawans of our land who were martyred giving us security. Lets pledge to not tolerate violent extremist Islamic Fundamentalism in the valley or even the violent insurgency around the North East. Violence and bloodshed are not the means to achieve any goal. Those who do take such means, meet the very same end! - ArK ** ** *In 11 Ashok Chakras, Jamia's Sharma and six Mumbai heroes* *Manu Pubby * Posted: Jan 23, 2009 at 0154 hrs IST Link - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/in-11-ashok-chakras-jamias-sharma-and-.../414314/ *New Delhi:* For the first time, the Ashok Chakra, the nation's highest peacetime gallantry award, will be conferred upon 11 individuals, including Delhi Police Inspector M C Sharma, who died in the Batla House shootout, four Mumbai policemen and two NSG commandos who died in the line of duty during the Mumbai Terrorattacks. >From an initial list of eight probables, the number of Ashok Chakra awardees for this Republic Day swelled to an unprecedented 11 after consultations at the highest level. Until now, the highest number of Ashok Chakra awards in a single year has been three, conferred upon security personnel (non-military) who died fighting militants during the attack on Parliament in December, 2001. While Mumbai ASI Tukaram Omble's name was never in doubt, discussions till the very last ensured that top police officials Hemant Karkare, Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar too would be honoured with the award posthumously. The Indian Express had earlier reported that Karkare and Omble were to be the only Mumbai policemen to be honoured with the Ashok Chakra while others, including Kamte and Salaskar, were to get the Kirti Chakra and police gallantry medals. The Mumbai Police had recommended names of 12 personnel for the award but the Governmentfelt that selection had to be strictly by the definition of the award for the "most conspicuous bravery, or some act of daring or pre-eminent valor or self-sacrifice" during peacetime. NSG's Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and Havaldar Gajinder Singh, who died fighting terrorists, are in the final list: •**M C Sharma: Delhi Police Inspector who died in the Batla House shootout. •**ASI Tukaram Omble: Took the bullets but held on to terrorist Ajmal Amir Kasab's gun, leading to his capture. •**Maj Sandeep Unnikrishnan: Died while flushing out terrorists at the Taj Hotel. •**Hav Gajinder Singh: Killed in the Nariman House operation. Was the first to enter the building. •**Hemant Karkare, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar: Killed while chasing terrorists near Cama Hospital. •**Col Jojan Thomas: CO of 45 RR, he died fighting militants in Kupwara. 12 militants were killed in the encounter. •**Hav Bahadur Singh: He was part of a counter-insurgency operation last year. •**R P Diengdoh: Meghalaya Police DSP who died while leading an operation against militants. •**Pramod Kumar Satapathy: Asst Commandant of Orissa's Special Operation Group who died battling Naxalites. From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 12:48:50 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:48:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "We see these boys as national heroes" Message-ID: <5c5369880901222318o54a45ccfv41eded05ef6c24d4@mail.gmail.com> In a season where the Nation remembers its heroes, a story about some additions to its swelling ranks. One particularly interesting quote: "We see these boys as national heroes. They suffered atrocities at the government's hands but did not take up arms," said Dr T.A. Rehmani of the Muslim Political Council. "The government should give them jobs." Best Sanjay Kak _________________________ 250 young victims of terror taint close ranks CITHARA PAUL http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090116/jsp/frontpage/story_10398032.jsp New Delhi, Jan. 15: Some 250 young Muslims who lost their jobs and careers after being wrongly held as terror suspects have united to seek answers from the government and punishment for police. Backed by two Muslim organisations, these "tainted" youths will hold a rally here on January 29 demanding the government rehabilitate them with jobs or fund their studies. "I lost my career and my life just because I was arrested on suspicion. I was sacked from my job the next day. Now I've been set free, but where will I go? How will I survive? The government must give an answer," said a young man who worked as a software engineer in Bangalore. "What about the pain my family suffered? Somebody should be made answerable." He requested he not be named to avoid more harassment. The rally will showcase similarly stigmatised young men, mostly in their 20s, from places such as Delhi, Mumbai, Hyderabad, Calcutta and Azamgarh. Most have been acquitted, and the rest freed on bail, after months of detention and interrogation — even alleged torture. Talha Amir was picked up from Azamgarh, Uttar Pradesh, by the Maharashtra anti-terrorist squad last month on suspicion of being a conduit between the Indian Mujahideen and the Lashkar-e-Toiba. He was also accused of involvement in the Delhi blasts and the Mumbai attacks. When he got bail two weeks later, after the police failed to find any evidence against him, he had lost his IT job in Hyderabad. The Uttar Pradesh Ulema Council and the Muslim Political Council will support the rally, where the young men may form their own organisation. "We see these boys as national heroes. They suffered atrocities at the government's hands but did not take up arms," said Dr T.A. Rehmani of the Muslim Political Council. "The government should give them jobs." Andhra Pradesh has already promised a Rs 20,000 compensation to each youth acquitted of terror charges in the state, and free coaching to the students among them. The Delhi rally, however, will have another demand: punish the officers responsible for the arrests and the media leaks. "They should be suspended if not dismissed," Rehmani said, suggesting this was the only way to bring accountability into the system. Such steps may not be legally possible, but senior lawyers have been critical of the police's growing habit of parading suspects before cameras, and behaving as if the accused were guilty till proved innocent. The legal experts put it down to increasing intolerance in society where terror suspects are stigmatised and often shunned even by defence lawyers. "We will field these youths in Assembly and parliamentary elections if they are not rehabilitated properly," Rehmani threatened. Imran, a Hyderabad-based engineering student who lost 20 months after being held over the Mecca Masjid blasts, had told The Telegraph his life had been "hell" even after his release on bail. He was forced to spend hours at a police station every third day, and in between suffer long periods of wait in courtrooms. From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 14:32:56 2009 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:32:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir - the elephant in the room Message-ID: <4fcaee300901230102p33a38727xdf787b9ccd519117@mail.gmail.com> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5566533.ece January 22, 2009 World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room In our latest daily column, the Times' Delhi bureau chief says India must not ignore Kashmir when searching for explanations for extremism Jeremy Page Arrogant, ham-handed, startling, impertinent – these are the sort of words used here, with reason, to describe David Miliband's comments on the Mumbai attacks last week. There is another word, though, that applies equally well: correct. Of course it was impolitic to contradict Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister, by saying that Britain does not believe the Pakistani state directed the Mumbai attacks. As for suggesting that the root cause of such attacks is Kashmir, surely the FCO recalls India's outrage in 1997 when Robin Cook suggested mediating on that issue? For the current Foreign Secretary of the former colonial ruler to make both these points publicly, while on Indian soil, was either deliberately provocative or incredibly naive. Mr Miliband also managed to cause offence with his tone and body language – a schoolboy error in dealing with a notoriously sensitive partner. The fact remains, however: he was spot on. Indian officials admit in private that there is no evidence yet of a direct link between Mumbai and the Pakistani state, even if they are sure that it played a role. More significantly, most regional experts agree with Mr Miliband that "resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms". For too long, Kashmir has been the "elephant in the room" in the international discourse on security in South Asia – and a stain on the copybook of the world's largest democracy. In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan. Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan. Now that both have nuclear weapons, Kashmir is a legitimate concern for the whole world, yet foreigners who bring it up are invariably shouted down. India's media rarely challenges government policy there, while the foreign media has been understandably focused on Pakistan and Afghanistan since 9/11. As a result, few outside the region are even aware that India still has half a million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily militarised corners of the planet. Or that by official estimates, more than 47,000 people have been killed there since an uprising against Indian rule began in 1989 (rights groups put the toll nearer 70,000). Or that that Kashmir's four million Muslims routinely suffer arbitrary arrest, torture and extra-judicial execution by security forces, according to most rights groups. Last year alone, at least 42 people were killed by security forces in protests against Indian rule. By comparison, 22 people were killed in the anti-China riots in Tibet in 2008. Kashmir's problems do not justify the Mumbai attacks. But in trying to prevent more attacks in India and elsewhere, it is ludicrous to continue to ignore Indian policy in the region. The fact is that Kashmir is the primary motivation for most terrorists in India and Pakistan. It is also why Pakistan's spies maintain links with such people. The real reason India is so upset is that Mr Miliband's words reflect the thinking of President Obama, who plans to appoint a special envoy on South Asia. The idea is for this envoy to take a more holistic approach to the region, including Kashmir, to address the concerns of all the major stakeholders. It is a good idea and Mr Obama and his allies should continue to promote it, however loudly India complains. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 23 15:25:41 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:55:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? Message-ID: <955203.78036.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here is a letter I wrote in response to an HT article (copied at bottom): ----- Dear Kumkum Chadha Reading the war-cry in your write-up I am wondering if this is the same country which produced Gandhi, Kabir, Buddha and such non-violent people. While you find the job of the “peaceniks” futile and a waste of time, I found your write-up a bit confusing. Today, a large number of people on both sides of the border are fed up with terror and violence and are anxious for a workable solution. But much of your essay is an extremely pessimistic attack on such people who try to channelize their angst into productive and positive use. You doubt the very intentions of the people who genuinely want peace. If you are proposing that all efforts of peace and reconciliation and the people-to-people contact between India and Pakistan be shut and replaced simply by a cold “co-existence”, how exactly do you define this co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing right now? How can a bonhomie harm this co-existence? I agree that the page-3 kebab parties between Indian and Pakistani activists do not serve any purpose, but I found your statement that there are actually no commonalities between the culture of India and Pakistan rather juvenile. If India and Pakistan should be hostile to each other because they are culturally dissimilar, then we should have a million more partitions within India due to our cultural differences. I think the efforts of peace activists of the two countries have remained less effective so far because their reach has been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or Lahore only. If they reached smaller and remote places such as Gorakhpur, Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and meet the ordinary people, they’ll probably be able to understand each other better and realize that not everyone in these countries wants war. When you say that there is “an irreparable divide, and the attempts to bridge it are both unrealistic and impossible”, I think the divide has been created by the governments and writers like you. The ordinary people of the two countries are the only ones who can bridge this divide, if you stop writing such nonsense. Yousuf Saeed New Delhi (on behalf of many friends in India and Pakistan who will continue to strive for peace, dialogue and reconciliation) ----- We’re not all in it together Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times January 22, 2009 With tension between India and Pakistan escalating, the self-appointed ambassadors of peace have their hands full. Irrespective of the inappropriateness of marketing peace at a time when India has yet to come to terms with 26/11, peaceniks on both sides are overactive. Last week a Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar with a banner of friendship; another is invading Delhi to talk peace. Worse still, their Indian counterparts held meetings to ensure that their peace mission was a roaring success, apart from warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. Each time Indians visit Pakistan or they us, they are visibly gushing with emotion. Both make endless comparisons and list commonalities in food, dress, language, culture and of course history. Politically correct, but untrue because there are distinct differences in the respective cuisines, languages, festivals, customs, rituals and religion. What are common are the scars of Partition and a blood-stained divide: facts which peaceniks pretend do not exist as they exchange garlands and bear hugs, while pining for a no-visa regime. It’s all very well to savour kebabs and hosting lavish dinners. But scratch the surface and there is acrimony: raw wounds that have little chance of healing. Mention Kashmir or terrorism and positions harden. Then it is ‘you versus us’ rather than ‘you and us’. So even while President Asif Ali Zardari tried to charm Indians at the HT summit by saying that there is a little bit of India in every Pakistani and vice versa, the truth is that there is no love lost between the two. It is rare to find an Indian warming up to a Pakistani. However hard we may try, we cannot wish away the mutual suspicion sealed by history. There is an irreparable divide and attempts to bridge it are both unrealistic and impossible. Marching to the Wagah border to light candles for peace is at best a goodwill gesture with no tangible results. In other words, a waste of time. Consequently when an enraged Pranab Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, sheds diplomacy and cries war, he cannot be faulted. This being the ground reality, it is time to shed superficial bonhomie and get real, and abandon the song and dance about friendship. We need to be brutally honest and change tack from a focus on peace to co-existence. It is compulsions of geography and not bonds of history that force us to live side by side. Replacing peace with co-existence will also help end the “like-mindedness” theory and reveal common meeting points in place of non-workable alliances. It will end pretensions about camaraderie and help us face reality: however hard, bitter and brutal it may be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will be much easier to tackle the inherent acrimony bordering on aggression. Erase the friendship logo and there could be a road ahead; abandon the thought of jointly treading the path and solutions could be on the anvil. But break bread together and it is a non- starter because despite the kebabs and candles, terror attacks and a volatile Indo-Pak border are the order of the day. The only casualty here would be the peaceniks. Not only will they be out of work but will be unwilling to accept that what they have been marketing all these years is an illusion. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 23 17:02:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:32:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <955203.78036.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <955203.78036.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901230332r467812eja04339b152bf6e48@mail.gmail.com> Dear Yusuf, Thank you for posting your response to Kumkum Chadha's HT article. After reading Kumkum's wonderfully written piece and you apt response it seems the choice is really between either going to war or abstaining from it. I can understand the frustration in Kumkum's point of view and I want to empathize with it. So for the sake of empathy let me for a moment imagine what will happen if India attacks Pakistan. I present two scenarios. Scenario-1 They Nuke us and we Nuke them. The Knickerwallahs here and the Salwar brigade there will have a field day carrying the dead and disposing at least 30-40 Million bodies. After all this is what they are all about, aren't they- to care and offer social service to the society. Then I think US will intervene and there will be a hue and cry in the UN and 'War' will come to an end. Then perhaps we can also celebrate, like Japan does every august, a peace day. Scenario-2 This war is a conventional war. You know water, ground, air offensive. With no first use policy on Nuke. So we watch TV all day as Barkha hyperventilates from the top of a tank and Sagarika screems EXCLUSIVE every five minutes from her Noida studio and Arnab adjusts his glasses and Ashutosh strikes a pose and we are deluged with stories about how good our Jawans are feeling even as they lay their lives for Bharat Mata, and what is the 'SITUATION' 'RIGHT NOW' !! And after a six month long conflict we finally manage to capture these bloody Pakis. Then what? What will we do with them? Make an entire country POW. Rape their women? Kill their Children? Murder them? Do what? What will we do with these Millions of illiterate, poor, Muslims? Administer them under some sort of a suzerainty? How will we tackle those stubborn Baluchs or those arrogant Sindhis or those drunk on power Punjabis? Those mad Pushtus? Even the US is finding them a hard nut to crack after all these years. What will we do? No no no no no.......we should not let so much of negativity afflict our thinking. Even if it is shit we should go ahead and embrace it, you know why maybe because it is our shit or maybe because one man's shit is another man's manure. So we don't know, hence we have to think of other ways to deal with them. how about making these mad mad pakis, who drunk on power, drunk on religion- Indian citizens, after we win the war ofcourse, which is just a formality, ofcourse? May be that's a good idea!! and we can finally solve the root problem of all the conflicts in South Asia. You know what Yousf may be Kumkum is right after all and may be you are wrong, because what she is saying is what our great leaders and thinkers and critical intellectuals have said years ago. Consider for instance,calming thoughts of one of the greatest intellectuals that India has ever produced, Mr. K.M.Munshi. In 1965 almost FORTY FOUR years ago he articulated his views on India/Pak policy, please allow me to present how his thougths are perceived- Pakistan is every day violating the cease-fire which came into effect on September 23, 1965. Evidently, under the cloak of cease-fire she is preparing for another aggression. Our present victory should therefore not lull us into complacency. So long as Pakistan exists as at present she will continue to be hostile and aggressive towards Bharat. Pakistan was born in hatred for Bharat. It was carved out artificially by disrupting the natural, national integrity of Bharat. The K.K.M. is therefore of the firm opinion that peace and normalcy are inconceivable without the establishment of Akhand Bharat. (you may find more jewels of his thinking here- http://www.rss.org:8080/New_RSS/Resolves/Resolution_1965.jsp) May be we should go to war for the greater common good and establishment of peace and normalcy. I think it is good idea, it will be a great opportunity to tell the world that look, even if we kill a few thousand of Muslims here and there every couple of years, at the bottom of hearts we want to co-exist with our Muslim brothers as part of one family, as part of one land, so we want to attack Pakistan now and then later may be Bangladesh too because these Bangladeshis come to India often illegally. These poor bastards end up working as rag pickers and spreading terrorism and we do not want that, we want them to be legal rag pickers and we want them to be Indian citizens. Following Obama, I can even imagine, Ms Kumkum Chaddha proclaiming- fellow citizens, we want to go to war, not because we see a green state or a white sate, or a saffron state but because we see UNITED STATES OF INDIA. As it was, so it will be. So Gwaad help India!! Regards Taha PS: I think Akhand Bharat is a great idea to think about- Here is a link on its wiki entry- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undivided_India From nilankur at cultureunplugged.com Fri Jan 23 19:38:44 2009 From: nilankur at cultureunplugged.com (Nilankur) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:38:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Writers Message-ID: <4E555181-7724-4DED-A914-EADB9DF5D4ED@cultureunplugged.com> Dear Group Call for Writers: from Culture Unplugged studios: www.cultureunplugged.com (office venues: New Zealand, India, UK and USA) To you, is it a bliss to meditatively write and move spirit/ consciousness of the audience? Do you love to focus on subjects such as films/media, consciousness, culture/society, identity ? Do you write in the style where profundity meets simplicity of expression? Our wish is to adopt a voice that is: Mature, Noble, Pragmatic, Frank, Fearless, Fresh; truth-seeking, expansive & inclusive, sharp- focused, thoughtful & sensitive – holding compassionate viewpoint of humanity and disparate cultures. We are launching an online venue with weekly blog catering to our primary audience - film-makers, film-lovers, conscious creatives/ citizens. This venue is to be launched in February/March 2009. Through this effort, we are not just building a platform/structure that simply publishes content, but one that raises consciousness of film-makers and unites people through their spirit. We are looking for writers who wish to blog and engage with global audience in a dialogue through this online platform. These opportunities are for freelance contributions which can commence now. Compensation is based on experties/experience and efforts required. If you have experience as film/media critic, social scientist, cultural anthropologist, or editorial journalist, we wish to know you. To learn about us, please visit studio.cultureunplugged.com Please email us your profile/interest/samples at : nilankur at cultureunplugged.com In respect of time, we will contact you if we find your profile/ expectation a fit. We thank you for your attention. nilankur Culture Unplugged Studios India | USA | UK | New Zealand From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 23 22:28:46 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:58:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901230332r467812eja04339b152bf6e48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <753577.54409.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Taha I will respond to your message a little later. Right now I am forwarding the response of at least one Pakistani to Kumkum Chadha's essay. (By the way, Taha, if we achieve your dream of the Akhand Bharat, we'd at least not have to worry about the biometric national ID-cards which you keep talking of, since we won't have any illegal migrants) ===== To. Ms Kumkum Chada, Your letter was forwarded by Yousaf Saeed. What you write is not my experience. I am not a 'peacenik' but I have successful working relationships with Indians- in TIFR and in music circles. We are all full of conflicting desires and emotions. History is full of accounts of brother killing brother for the usual reasons. But, for the overall progress of society, we try to keep our thirst for blood in check. Why can we not learn from Europeans? Must we like them go through devastating wars to realize that there is a better option available? Yes, the divide is irreparable- even real brothers choose to live separately. But it does not mean that we should stop cooperating in promoting what we find of value in our personal lives. This hostility and suspicion you write about is present everywhere. There are constant fights between peoples of different ethnicity in Pakistan- who all have the same religion. Making them realize that dialogue is a better option than unwarranted and continuous violence is something one should seriously strive for. And the same goes for India and Pakistan. The merchants of violence would certainly not want peace anywhere, but I am not going to fall for this . I live in Saudi Arabia and I have much more in common with Indians than Arabs. At least, I understand Hindi . I have never been invited by any Arab, but many times by Indian Hindus. When I was a student in Notre Dame - way back in the 70s- my best friends were from South India- because of our common love of classical music . We did realize our differences but that did not mean that we should order our lives on a foundation of hatred. So, really, our culture does bind us. Your perception- that there is no love lost between Indians and Pakistanis- is really a reflection of your own experiences and proclivities. Regards, Hassan Azad hssnazad at gmail.com http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/MATH/hassanaz/ --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:02 PM > Dear Yusuf, > > Thank you for posting your response to Kumkum Chadha's > HT article. > > After reading Kumkum's wonderfully written piece and > you apt response it > seems the choice is really between either going to war or > abstaining from > it. > > I can understand the frustration in Kumkum's point of > view and I want to > empathize with it. So for the sake of empathy let me for a > moment imagine > what will happen if India attacks Pakistan. > > I present two scenarios. > > Scenario-1 > > They Nuke us and we Nuke them. The Knickerwallahs here and > the Salwar > brigade there will have a field day carrying the dead and > disposing at least > 30-40 Million bodies. After all this is what they are all > about, aren't > they- to care and offer social service to the society. > > Then I think US will intervene and there will be a hue and > cry in the UN > and 'War' will come to an end. Then perhaps we can > also celebrate, like > Japan does every august, a peace day. > > Scenario-2 > > This war is a conventional war. You know water, ground, air > offensive. With > no first use policy on Nuke. > > So we watch TV all day as Barkha hyperventilates from the > top of a tank and > Sagarika screems EXCLUSIVE every five minutes from her > Noida studio and > Arnab adjusts his glasses and Ashutosh strikes a pose and > we are deluged > with stories about how good our Jawans are feeling even as > they lay their > lives for Bharat Mata, and what is the 'SITUATION' > 'RIGHT NOW' !! > > And after a six month long conflict we finally manage to > capture these > bloody Pakis. > > Then what? What will we do with them? Make an entire > country POW. Rape their > women? Kill their Children? Murder them? Do what? What will > we do with these > Millions of illiterate, poor, Muslims? Administer them > under some sort of a > suzerainty? > > How will we tackle those stubborn Baluchs or those arrogant > Sindhis or those > drunk on power Punjabis? Those mad Pushtus? Even the US is > finding them a > hard nut to crack after all these years. What will we do? > > No no no no no.......we should not let so much of > negativity afflict our > thinking. Even if it is shit we should go ahead and embrace > it, you know why > maybe because it is our shit or maybe because one man's > shit is another > man's manure. So we don't know, hence we have to > think of other ways to deal > with them. > > how about making these mad mad pakis, who drunk on power, > drunk on religion- > Indian citizens, after we win the war ofcourse, which is > just a formality, > ofcourse? > > May be that's a good idea!! and we can finally solve > the root problem of all > the conflicts in South Asia. You know what Yousf may be > Kumkum is right > after all and may be you are wrong, because what she is > saying is what our > great leaders and thinkers and critical intellectuals have > said years ago. > > Consider for instance,calming thoughts of one of the > greatest intellectuals > that India has ever produced, Mr. K.M.Munshi. In 1965 > almost FORTY FOUR > years ago he articulated his views on India/Pak policy, > please allow me to > present how his thougths are perceived- > > Pakistan is every day violating the cease-fire which came > into effect on > September 23, 1965. Evidently, under the cloak of > cease-fire she is > preparing for another aggression. Our present victory > should therefore not > lull us into complacency. So long as Pakistan exists as at > present she will > continue to be hostile and aggressive towards Bharat. > Pakistan was born in > hatred for Bharat. It was carved out artificially by > disrupting the natural, > national integrity of Bharat. The K.K.M. is therefore of > the firm opinion > that peace and normalcy are inconceivable without the > establishment of > Akhand Bharat. > > (you may find more jewels of his thinking here- > http://www.rss.org:8080/New_RSS/Resolves/Resolution_1965.jsp) > > May be we should go to war for the greater common good and > establishment of > peace and normalcy. > > I think it is good idea, it will be a great opportunity to > tell the world > that look, even if we kill a few thousand of Muslims here > and there every > couple of years, at the bottom of hearts we want to > co-exist with our Muslim > brothers as part of one family, as part of one land, so we > want to attack > Pakistan now and then later may be Bangladesh too because > these > Bangladeshis come to India often illegally. These poor > bastards end up > working as rag pickers and spreading terrorism and we do > not want that, we > want them to be legal rag pickers and we want them to be > Indian citizens. > > Following Obama, I can even imagine, Ms Kumkum Chaddha > proclaiming- fellow > citizens, we want to go to war, not because we see a green > state or a white > sate, or a saffron state but because we see UNITED STATES > OF INDIA. > > As it was, so it will be. > > So Gwaad help India!! > > > Regards > > Taha > > PS: I think Akhand Bharat is a great idea to think about- > Here is a link on > its wiki entry- > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undivided_India From J.Dow at leeds.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 01:56:55 2009 From: J.Dow at leeds.ac.uk (Jamie Dow) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:26:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir - the elephant in the room In-Reply-To: <4fcaee300901230102p33a38727xdf787b9ccd519117@mail.gmail.com> References: <4fcaee300901230102p33a38727xdf787b9ccd519117@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Interesting piece. One snippet intrigued me: "few outside the region are even aware that India still has half a million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily militarised corners of the planet." Is this true? 500,000 troops in Kashmir, just on the Indian side? If so, it's a huge financial drain for India (and presumably also for Pakistan). Can anyone provide any confirmation (or otherwise) of this assertion? Jamie ____________________________________________ Jamie Dow Research Fellow IDEA CETL Tel: +44 113 343 7887 Email: J.Dow at leeds.ac.uk Web: http://www.philosophy.leeds.ac.uk/Staff/JD/index.html -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Wali Arifi Sent: 23 January 2009 09:03 To: Sarai Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir - the elephant in the room http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5566533.ece January 22, 2009 World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room In our latest daily column, the Times' Delhi bureau chief says India must not ignore Kashmir when searching for explanations for extremism Jeremy Page Arrogant, ham-handed, startling, impertinent - these are the sort of words used here, with reason, to describe David Miliband's comments on the Mumbai attacks last week. There is another word, though, that applies equally well: correct. Of course it was impolitic to contradict Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister, by saying that Britain does not believe the Pakistani state directed the Mumbai attacks. As for suggesting that the root cause of such attacks is Kashmir, surely the FCO recalls India's outrage in 1997 when Robin Cook suggested mediating on that issue? For the current Foreign Secretary of the former colonial ruler to make both these points publicly, while on Indian soil, was either deliberately provocative or incredibly naive. Mr Miliband also managed to cause offence with his tone and body language - a schoolboy error in dealing with a notoriously sensitive partner. The fact remains, however: he was spot on. Indian officials admit in private that there is no evidence yet of a direct link between Mumbai and the Pakistani state, even if they are sure that it played a role. More significantly, most regional experts agree with Mr Miliband that "resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms". For too long, Kashmir has been the "elephant in the room" in the international discourse on security in South Asia - and a stain on the copybook of the world's largest democracy. In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan. Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan. Now that both have nuclear weapons, Kashmir is a legitimate concern for the whole world, yet foreigners who bring it up are invariably shouted down. India's media rarely challenges government policy there, while the foreign media has been understandably focused on Pakistan and Afghanistan since 9/11. As a result, few outside the region are even aware that India still has half a million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily militarised corners of the planet. Or that by official estimates, more than 47,000 people have been killed there since an uprising against Indian rule began in 1989 (rights groups put the toll nearer 70,000). Or that that Kashmir's four million Muslims routinely suffer arbitrary arrest, torture and extra-judicial execution by security forces, according to most rights groups. Last year alone, at least 42 people were killed by security forces in protests against Indian rule. By comparison, 22 people were killed in the anti-China riots in Tibet in 2008. Kashmir's problems do not justify the Mumbai attacks. But in trying to prevent more attacks in India and elsewhere, it is ludicrous to continue to ignore Indian policy in the region. The fact is that Kashmir is the primary motivation for most terrorists in India and Pakistan. It is also why Pakistan's spies maintain links with such people. The real reason India is so upset is that Mr Miliband's words reflect the thinking of President Obama, who plans to appoint a special envoy on South Asia. The idea is for this envoy to take a more holistic approach to the region, including Kashmir, to address the concerns of all the major stakeholders. It is a good idea and Mr Obama and his allies should continue to promote it, however loudly India complains. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 24 02:06:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:36:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-76 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901231236m28bf9e21p6b8b80add8682302@mail.gmail.com> http://in.rediff.com/computer/1998/may/04vittal.htm A card for all seasons Email this story to a friend. It is high time India brought an intelligent and integrated approach to this issue of smart cards Everybody realises that information technology is the most decisive technology not only for the present but even of the coming century. This is one technology which has wide reach and affects positively every aspect of manufacturing and services. We can see a logical co-relation between increasing use of IT, especially in services. That's where smart cards come in. A smart card is basically a card on which a chip has been embedded and which has immense power to store information of different types. As the transactions grow, be it in buying or selling or to help the public interact with the government, the cards can play an important role. In developed countries like the US, a movement towards a cashless society where smart cards rule is already visible. In fact, the experience of VeriFone, a leading company in the transaction automation business, is symbolic of where India is and where the developed countries are. For VeriFone smart cards are designed in Bangalore, manufactured in Taiwan and used in the US. So we can see India has an advantage in designing software but fall short in the use of smart cards throughout our system. Some years ago we had an energetic chief election commissioner, T N Seshan, moving for an ID card for election purposes. Recently, we have seen Home Minister L K Advani seek a multi-purpose ID card since only the ration card provides identification in India. India's dalliance with cards depends upon the intelligence and whims of the powers-that-be. It is high time we brought an intelligent and integrated approach to this issue of cards. A multi-purpose card for every Indian would be ideal. These are some of the purposes it serves: * * Replaces the ration card. * It could act as health card, especially when the carrier needs treatment in emergencies. * It could help identify the carrier during the elections. It would help various government organisations keep their statistics up-to-date. So a systematic attempt has to be made to design the card and to put together the equipment to read such information. A system also has to be devised to ensure the information in the card is kept up-to-date. We need an administrative delivery system that will ensure that anybody who needs a card is given a card, and that too in a limited time. The designing of the card and the delivery system pose interesting challenges. That we have the software design capability is shown by the VeriFone experience. The next question is what will be the resources needed. Seshan's experiment in ID card cost about Rs one billion. Advani's card is estimated to cost Rs 20 billlion. So, we have the issue of resources on the one side as well as other administrative issues that we mention but it will be useful if we can have a national debate started first on the use and the implications of the card system and secondly go about using this. We in this country are very good discussion and theorising. Where we lack is in action. Long ago the administration expert Paul Appeal said, the Indian administration is action-shy. We have now to move on to getting results. Perhaps the private section can take the lead. If, for instance, we use smart cards in marketing, banking, customer service we can make it easy for the government too to think of smart cards as a means of life in India. We hear debates about national information highway. We have the National Agenda for Governance talking about the role of IT and India emerging as a software super power. Page 46 of the BJP's election manifesto mentions the role of IT. But if you want to give a real meaning to this rhetoric, you have to see how the common man benefits. And if you can provide him with a smart card that will as a ration card and an all-purpose ID card, including at election time, perhaps you would have made a good beginning. Perhaps later, these cards can be designed to serve as credit and debt cards or as customer cards. The possibilities are endless. We are now lacking only in vision and, more important, an immediate action plan. I hope we will get cracking on this critical issue right away. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 24 02:08:11 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:38:11 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-77 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901231238m34f63811j747a98d68f288f5c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19990817/ipo17050.html NDA agenda targets Sonia EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE NEW DELHI, AUG 16: The prime target of the election manifesto of the Bharatiya Janata Party-led National Democratic Alliance, which was released today, is Congress president Sonia Gandhi. It promises legislation to prevent foreign-born persons from occupying important offices such as President, Prime Minister, Vice-President of India. The second edition of National Agenda for Governance (NAG) says the front's government will enact a legislation to provide an eligibility criterion that the high offices of legislature, executive and judiciary are held only by natural-born Indian citizens. It also will establish a national register of citizens and introduce a multi-purpose identity card for citizen. In a major turnaround, the NAG said the Prasar Bharati Act would be reviewed and a comprehensive broadcasting bill enacted to regulate private broadcasting and to protect Indian interests. ``We will restrict foreign equity holding in private television broadcasting to 20 per cent and prevent cross holding toavoid emergence of monopolies in the media,'' it said. Except for a few changes introduced in the wake of the fall of the Vajpayee Government and the Kargil conflict, almost the entire manifesto, released by Atal Behari Vajpayee today, is a copy of the NAG released in April last year. The NAG has once again put a moratorium on contentious issues like Article 370, uniform civil code and the temple in Ayodhya. As many as five paragraphs are devoted to Kargil in the introduction of the NAG and the alliance partners promise to increase the Budgetary allocation for Defence needs. Toppled ``without an alternative'', the NDA partners promises to take measures for ensuring a fixed term of five years for all elected bodies including legislatures besides replacing the present no confidence motion with the German system of ``constructive vote of no confidence'' which makes it mandatory for the opposition to present an alternative before moving a no-trust motion. The NAG also promises to provide right offranchise to Armed Forces through proxy voting. The National Security Council, which was set up to advise the Government on the country's security, will correct the imbalance and Budgetary neglect of Defence needs during the last decades, says the NAG. The NDA government will take effective measures for eliminating pensionary anomalies and revamp the system of ex-servicemen's welfare as a tribute to those who laid down their lives for the country, it said. On the issue of corruption, the manifesto said the government would enact the Lok Pal Bill with adequate powers to deal with graft charges against anyone, including the Prime Minister. A national judicial commission would be set up to recommend judicial appointments in High Courts and the Supreme Court and to draw up a code of ethics for judiciary, it said. Attempts to build a system of trade and economic cooperation through an expanded global system of trade preferences among developing countries would be strongly supported, it said. Statingthat NDA was committed to extending the SC/ST reservations for another 10 years, the manifesto said necessary legislative measures would be taken to sanctify reservation percentages, above 50 per cent, as followed by certain states. It once again pledged to introduce a legislation in Parliament providing for 33 per cent reservation for women in Lok Sabha and state assemblies. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 24 02:10:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:40:38 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-78 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901231240n39968e05j12c2470bf4d31db@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19981019/29350584.html Indian Express Monday, October 19, 1998 "If Govt decides to send a recommendation on Bihar again, it can do it" Ajay Suri He may be known more for his tough posturing and hard-hitting approach, but that is not all to Union Home Minister L.K. Advani. He makes no bones about the dangers awaiting the Kashmiri Pandits should they decide to return to the Valley at this juncture. His advice to the north-eastern states to talk with the militants further betray the sensitive (some may say soft) aspect of the second most important man in the Central Government. AJAY SURI spoke to him at length. Excerpts of the interview: How far has the Government gone ahead with its `pro-active' approach on militancy-infested Kashmir? One of the principal touchstones whereby the Government would come to the conclusion that normalcy has returned is the rehabilitation of the Kashmiri Pandits who have been thrown out of their hearths and homes. We propose to have a session with Kashmiri Pandits and their representatives, along with Jammu & Kashmir Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah. A measure of risk would be there for everyone (including thePandits). We would like to provide the Kashmiri Pandits with the best possible safety measures, but I can say that those who belong to the countryside would be more willing to return than those from the urban areas. In these few years, many of them have found a job and they would not be very ready to go...land jinki hai woh jane to tayyar honge, but risk land walon ke liye jyada hai...The state Government would have to contribute, even to those whose property has been destroyed. We will hold the talks soon. Can you foresee a time-frame in which the Kashmir problem could be solved? It is not possible. We have lost valuable time. After all, at one stage, hot pursuit would have yielded immediate results. The deterioration in the situation began in 1984 when when they (Pakistan) started implementing their strategy through Punjab. We succumbed to the campaign they unleashed against Jagmohan in which Pakistan was a principal party and Indian political parties joined hands...I still regard hotpursuit as a legitimate right of a country that is subjected to this kind of attack. But I do not do regard it appropriate at this point of time. Because of the present situation, I would like to take steps which do not enlarge the conflict. But one gratifying aspect certainly is that tourists have returned to the Valley and most of the militants apprehended or killed these days are foreign mercenaries, sent from Pakistan, Afghanistan and other Islamic countries. Not many of them are the residents of Kashmir. We have already unearthed 18 modules run by ISI in the country. We will make more progress in this direction. Is the Bihar chapter as good as closed? Bihar is certainly not a closed chapter. It may be that the particular recommendation being sent second time is closed. But if at all the Government decides to send a recommendation again, it can certainly do it...The view that it's a fit case was expressed by the whole Cabinet, even while saying that in deference to the wishes of the Presidentwe are not pursuing the matter for the moment. One constraint on the Govt action was the interpretation put by the President on the Bommai judgment whereby no Government could recommend dissolution of a State Assembly until first Parliament had first adopted the proclamation. There are different legal views which say this is not correct. They hold that the judgment is not binding on the Government. In any case, we are calling a Chief Ministers' meeting of the Inter-State Council to resume the debate on Article 356. Why did the Government go for a desperate gamble in changing the Delhi Chief Minister just before the state elections? Isn't it a direct admission of failure in governing the capital? I don't think it is a gamble; in fact, we had been thinking of it for some time. When the Prime Minister planned a Cabinet expansion in early October, it became logical move to have a changeover in Delhi. We wanted to induct Sahib Singh into the Central Government and send someone like Sushma (Swaraj), or(Madan Lal) Khurana or whosoever we think would be the best card for us. But the problem occurred when the Cabinet expansion was deferred. Changing a Chief Minister at this point is not an admission of failure. Sushma Swaraj's statements and pronouncements have consciously sought to erase this feeling and we are going to the people on the basis of achievements of both the Khurana and the Sahib Singh governments. However, these comments would be there. Any radical steps a party takes are bound to evoke comments. We should be willing to accept those things. The issue of deportation of illegal Bangladeshis is due for revival, considering the Maharashtra Government's statement that it would resume the process after Diwali. There are also talks of giving work permits to illegal settlers from Bangladesh. I have not talked about permits as such, but I have said that about implementing a scheme of drawing up a national register of citizens and providing all Indian citizens with multi-purpose identitycards. In that process, we would also like to register all non-citizens who are residents in India. In case of groups like that of Bangladeshis, this non-citizen identity card will for all practical purpose become a work permit. In that case also, according to the international law and convention, it is not only our right but our duty to see that they go back. But the Government has been remit in discharging its duty. Over the years, we have allowed this problem to grow to a dimension in which deportation of more than one crore people becomes impossible, purely for logistic reasons. Maharashtra govt tried to send back 92 persons, and see the hue and cry that has been raised. The Home Ministry is trying to view the problem in a holistic way and contain the negative consequences of such a large number of illegal immigrants. If they have formal non-citizen identity papers, they would be less of a threat to security, to the polity of the country. The issue of these 92 deportees (sent by Maharashtra Government)is before the Calcutta High Court. There is no stay on their deportation but we would like to wait for the verdict. The North-East insurgency situation, though presently overshadowed by Kashmir, could blow on the Government's face any time. How exactly does the Home Ministry view the problem? North-East is a matter of concern. All the North-eastern states have been interacting with us, including those which are afflicted by militancy. The Central Government has been giving all necessary assistance and support. but I have been trying to impress upon them that in Punjab we were ultimately able to overcome militancy. Apart from the contributions of the Army and the para-military forces, the principal factor which contributed to our success were the administration and the police on one hand and the ability of the leadership to isolate the people from the militants on the other. We have to ensure there is no sympathy of any kind for the militants. Copyright (c) 1998 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd. From kaksanjay at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 10:59:39 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:59:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?India=92s_stealth_lobbying?= Message-ID: <5c5369880901232129k381d26bcn7d6c0f7f662b451@mail.gmail.com> India's stealth lobbying against Holbrooke's brief Fri, 01/23/2009 - 7:12pm http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/01/23/india_s_stealth_lobbying_against_holbrooke When Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- flanked by President Obama -- introduced Richard Holbrooke as the formidable new U.S. envoy to South Asia at a State Department ceremony on Thursday, India was noticeably absent from his title. Holbrooke, the veteran negotiator of the Dayton accords and sharp-elbowed foreign policy hand who has long advised Clinton, was officially named "special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan" in what was meant to be one of the signature foreign policy acts of Obama's first week in office. But the omission of India from his title, and from Clinton's official remarks introducing the new diplomatic push in the region was no accident -- not to mention a sharp departure from Obama's own previously stated approach of engaging India, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, in a regional dialogue. Multiple sources told The Cable that India vigorously -- and successfully -- lobbied the Obama transition team to make sure that neither India nor Kashmir was included in Holbrooke's official brief. "When the Indian government learned Holbrooke was going to do [Pakistan]-India, they swung into action and lobbied to have India excluded from his purview," relayed one source. "And they succeeded. Holbrooke's account officially does not include India." To many Washington South Asia experts, the decision to not include India or Kashmir in the official Terms of Reference of Holbrooke's mandate was not just appropriate, but absolutely necessary. Given India's fierce, decades-long resistance to any internationalization of the Kashmir dispute, to have done so would have been a non-starter for India, and guaranteed failure before the envoy mission had begun, several suggested. "Leaving India out of the title actually opens up [Holbrooke's] freedom to talk to them," argued Philip Zelikow, a former counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who served until December as a consultant for a lobbying firm, BGR, retained by the Indian Government. But to others -- including Obama himself, who proposed a special envoy to deal with Kashmir during the campaign -- the region's security challenges cannot be solved without including India. Obama told Time's Joe Klein, that working with Pakistan and India to try to resolve their Kashmir conflict would be a critical task for his administration's efforts to try to counter growing instability in Afghanistan and Pakistan. "Kashmir in particular is an interesting situation where that is obviously a potential tar pit diplomatically," Obama told Klein. "But, for us to devote serious diplomatic resources to get a special envoy in there, to figure out a plausible approach, and essentially make the argument to the Indians, you guys are on the brink of being an economic superpower, why do you want to keep on messing with this? ... I think there is a moment where potentially we could get their attention. It won't be easy, but it's important." Obama also suggested in the interview that he had discussed the special envoy idea with former President Bill Clinton. Whatever the case, the evidence that India was able to successfully lobby the Obama transition in the weeks before it took office to ensure Holbrooke's mission left them and Kashmir out is testament to both the sensitivity of the issue to India as well as the prowess and sophistication of its Washington political and lobbying operation. "The Indians freaked out at talk of Bill Clinton being an envoy to Kashmir," said Daniel Markey, a South Asia expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. "The reason they were so worried is they don't want their activities in Kashmir to be equated with what Pakistan is doing in Afghanistan." "They [India] are the big fish [in the region]," Markey added. "They don't want to be grouped with the 'problem children' in the region, on Kashmir, on nuclear issues. They have a fairly effective lobbying machine. They have taken a lot of notes on the Israel model, and they have gotten better. But you don't want to overstate it. Some of the lobbying effort is obvious, done through companies, but a lot of it is direct government to government contact, people talking to each other. The Indian government and those around the Indian government made clear through a variety of channels because of the Clinton rumors and they came out to quickly shoot that down." Once Holbrooke's name was floated, the Indian lobbying campaign became even more intense. "The Indians do not like Holbrooke because he has been very good on Pakistan... and has a very good feel for the place" said one former U.S. official on condition of anonymity. "The Indians have this town down." Initially, when Obama's plans for a corps of special envoys became public after the election, The Cable was told, the idea was for a senior diplomat to tackle the Kashmir dispute as part of the South Asia envoy portfolio and whose mandate would include India. But soon after the election and Holbrooke's name began to appear, the Indians approached key transition officials to make clear that while they could not affect what the new administration did with respect to envoys, that they would expect no mediation on the Kashmir issue. "I have suggested to others, though not directly to Dick [Holbrooke], that his title should not/not include India, precisely so that he would be freer to work with them," Zelikow said. "If you understand Indian politics, this paradox makes sense." "I did nothing for the [Government of India] on this," Zelikow added. The Indian government "talked directly to folks on the [Obama] transition team and I heard about it from my Indian friends. I think Holbrooke needs to talk to the Indians. But they are trying, understandably, to break out of being in a hyphenated relationship with America (i.e., comprehended on a mental map called India-Pakistan)." Other sources said India's hired lobbyists were deployed to shape the contours of the U.S. diplomatic mission. According to lobbying records filed with the Department of Justice, since 2005, the government of India has paid BGR about $2.5 million. BGR officials who currently work on the Indian account, who according to lobbying records include former Sen. Chuck Hagel aide Andrew Parasiliti, former U.S. State Department counterproliferation official Stephen Rademaker, former Bush I and Reagan era White House aide and BGR partner Ed Rogers, and former House Foreign Affairs committee staffer Walker Roberts, did not respond to messages left Friday by Foreign Policy. Former U.S. ambassador to India Robert Blackwill, who previously served as a lobbyist for India, left BGR in 2008 for the Rand Corporation. In addition, the Indian embassy in Washington has paid lobbying firm Patton Boggs $291,665 under a six-month contract that took effect Aug. 18, according to lobbying records. "BGR has been a registered lobbyist for the Indian government since 2005," noted one Senate staffer on condition of anonymity. "The Indian government retained BGR for the primary purpose of pushing through the Congress the civil nuclear cooperation agreement between the United States and India - hence the strategic hires of Bob Blackwill, the former U.S. Ambassador to India, and Walker Roberts, a senior staffer on the House Foreign Affairs Committee responsible for vetting past such agreements. BGR continues to actively lobby on behalf of the Indian government - their lobbyists sought to influence a recent Senate resolution on the Mumbai attacks. So I would be very surprised if BGR were NOT involved here." (For its part, Pakistan has spent about $1,175,000, on lobbying during the past year, including on trade issues. That includes Dewey and LeBoeuf's work for the Ministry of Commerce, and Locke Lord's work for the Embassy of Pakistan and the Pakistan International Airlines Corp, according to lobbying records.) It's not clear to experts and officials interviewed exactly who in the Obama transition team was contacted as part of the Indian lobbying effort. The White House did not respond to queries. Asked about the decision to exclude India from the special envoy's official mandate, former NSC and CIA official Bruce Riedel, who served as the senior lead of the team advising the Obama campaign on South Asian issues, said by e-mail, "When Senator Clinton originally proposed the envoy idea in her campaign it was only for Afghanistan and Pakistan." He didn't respond to a further query questioning why Clinton's campaign comments on the issue mattered as much as Obama's, since, obviously, it was Obama who won the presidency and ultimately appointed her to carry out his foreign policy as the Obama administration's top diplomat. Laura Rozen From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 10:43:08 2009 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:43:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sadhus of Ayodhya and Legislators of Sindh Assembly Join for Peace Message-ID: Press Release Sadhus of Ayodhya and Legislators of Sindh Assembly Join for Peace Hundreds of Sadhus in Ayodhya lead by Mahant Bhavnaath Das, chief of the Hanumangarhi temple and Ministers and legislators from the government and opposition parties in the Sindh Legislative Assembly in Karachi Pakistan became one in signing the Joint Petition against terrorism and war. This Joint Signature Campaign by Citizens of India and Pakistan against terrorism, war posturing and to promote cooperation and peace between India and Pakistan was launched on 9th January 2009 simultaneously from 22 cities in India and 17 cities in Pakistan. Civil society organisations in both the countries are facilitating The Signature Campaign in hundreds of cities, towns and villages of India and Pakistan. Many prominent personalities like Mr. Chandrababu Naidu, former Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, Nisar Khuhro, Speaker of the Sindh Assembly, Members of Parliament, Editors of Newspapers, academicians, artists, scientists, social activists and others have endorsed the Petition that demands that both the governments of Pakistan and India should practice zero tolerance for religious extremism and terrorism, take appropriate actions to root out terror groups, set up joint action and investigation mechanism, desist from war posturing, address all issues through dialogue and cooperation, and follow all conventions of UN and SAARC against terrorism and for cooperation. The Petition also appeals to the media of both countries to propagate and strengthen positive attitudes for the resolution of all outstanding problems in the region. Public Meetings and signatures on large banners are being organised on 22nd January 2009 in over 50 cities and towns of India and 20 cities and towns of Pakistan as part of the ongoing Joint Signature Campaign and in solidarity with a delegation of 20 peace activists from Pakistan that is visiting Delhi from 21-24 January 2009 to promote peace and goodwill between the two countries. The Joint Signature Campaign will conclude on 8th February 2009. Appeal We appeal to all civil society organisations that agree with the Campaign to email their endorsements to enable the inclusion of their organisations amongst the Partners. The email may be sent to: indopak.jointcampaign at gmail.com Help take signatures from people in your area by downloading the attached Petition Form. If you want to endorse as an individual then Sign and endorse the Petition online by clicking: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/indopak/petition.html More information available on the website: http://www.indopakcampaignagainstwarnterror.org Let People Express! Time Peace Loving People Decide the Agenda!! And the Course of Our Countries!!! Indo-Pak Joint Signature Campaign Secretariat C/o COVA, 20-4-10, Charminar, Hyderabad. A.P. Ph: 0091-40-24572984, Mob: 98491 78111 Email: indopak.jointcampaign at gmail.com Partner Organisations: India AITUC- Goa, AIYF- Goa, Arya Samaj, Al Hira Educational Society, Andhra Pradesh, APVVU,ASHA Parivar, Bandhan- Andhra Pradesh, Akhil Bharatiya Rachanatmak Samaj, New Delhi, Bandhua Mukti Morcha ­ Delhi,, BWRDS ­ Bharatiya Women & Rural Development Society, Andhra Pradesh, Bala Tara Welfare Society. Andhra Pradesh, IRDS- karnataka, BUILD- Maharashtra, Maharashtra Vidhyarthi Bharathi, Citizens for Human Rights Movement ­ Tamil Nadu, Calvery Ministry, Andhra Pradesh, CIEDS Collective ­ Collective- Karnataka, COVA, CYSD - Orissa, CYDA ­ Pune, Disha Social Organisation- Uttar Pradesh, EKTA Parishad, Friends Educational Society, Andhra Pradesh, FOCUS on the global south, Folklore Research Institute - Punjab, Grass Roots India Trust, Lucknow, GRACE organisation, Andhra Pradesh, Gandhian Integrated Forum Trust- Chennai, Gram Vikas Manch, Hind- Pak Dosti Manch - Delhi, Hazrath Mahaboob Memorial Educational and Welfare Society, Andhra Pradesh, Human Rights Education - Tamil Nadu, Indian Society of Agribusiness Professionals., New Delhi, Jan Sahayog, MADAT, Andhra Pradesh, Minorities Women Welfare Society, Andhra Pradesh, MUKTI - Rajasthan, NACDOR, NCDHR, North East Network (NEN)- Assam, North East Network (NEN)- Meghalaya, North East Network (NEN)- Manipur, Orugallu Network of Voluntary Association (ONVA),Andhra Pradesh,Open Space- Karnataka, Pragathi Youth Society, Andhra Pradesh, New Model Educational Society, Andhra Pradesh, Kalabandu Kalaparishad, Andhra pradesh People's Watch ­ Tamil Nadu, PIPFPD Maharashtra Chapter, PIPFPD Pune Chapter, PIPFD, West Bengal Chapter, Prashant- Gujarat, PUCAAR- Andhra Pradesh, Peoples Action for Developmental Services, Andhra Pradesh, PUCL Rajisthan, Rainbow Social Service Society, Andhra Pradesh,Rupantar- Chattisgarh, Society for Promotion of Tolerance (SPoT), Andhra Pradesh, Sai Vikas Educational Development Society, Andhra Pradesh, SAHAI- Kerala, Samajik Suraksha - Bihar, Samarthan ­ Madhya Pradesh, SUTRA, Himachal Pradesh, Sanchetana- Gujarat, SANGAT, Sarada Educational Society, Andhra Pradesh, Society for Education and Environment Development (SEED),Andhra Pradesh, Sanjhi Duniya- Uttar Pradesh, SANSAD,SRI, Tarangini Social Service Society, Andhra Pradesh, UNNATI- Gujarat, Utthan- Assam, Vimochana- Karnataka, Women's Collective - Chennai,WNTA, Yuvsatta- Chandigarh, Xavier Institute of Social Research - Bihar, Yuva Samvad- Madhya Pradesh, ZUBAAN ­New Delhi. Pakistan All Pakistan Kisan Ittehad CYDA Awareness and Action Society Multan, Communist Party of Pakistan, Citizen Action Committee for Women Rights, Multan, Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, India Pakistan Soldiers' Initiative for Peace, Lahore , Institute of Secular Studies, Labour Party Pakistan, Movement of workers (MOW) Multan, Muttahida Labour Federation, National Federation of Foods Beverage's & Tobacco Workers,Multan, Noor Citizen community centre Multan Pakhtoonkhva Progressive Front, Pakistani Doctors for Peace & Development, PPC-Sindh, Pakistan Peace Coalition, Pakistan Peace and Solidarity Council, Pakistan Workers Confederation, PILER, SAP Pakistan, South Asian Idea, SDPI ,Sungi Development Foundation, Staff union CBA Multan Fabrics Multan ,Soch Foundation Multan, Tehreek-I-Niswan, Women's Rights Association, Multan, Workers Union CBA Sol-vex Pakistan Ltd Multan, Women Workers Federation Association for Human Development Multan, Shah Sachal Sami Foundation,Sindh Hari,Porhiat Council, Sidh Development Society, Bhandar Hari Sangat,Sidhica Reforms Society, Actionaid Pakistan, Society For Development and Research,Roshni Foundation,SPARC,Awami Party,Sindhi Adabi Sangat,Mazdoor Mahaze Amal,Child and Labour Rights Welfare Organisation Korangi. From kaksanjay at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 10:24:48 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:24:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Behind the Myths about Hamas / Deepa Kumar Message-ID: <5c5369880901232054u11513629p66e3249e1d039116@mail.gmail.com> Behind the Myths about Hamas by Deepa Kumar http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/kumar210109.html 21 Jan 2009 Most mainstream accounts of the Palestinian Hamas organization present it as a bunch of rabid fanatics, bent on violence and motivated by an irrational hatred of Jews and the state of Israel. This view is reflected both in the mainstream media and in many books published on the topic. When we separate propaganda from reality, however, what we find is a group that has taken on the mantle of national resistance against Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. Hamas describes itself like this: "The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) is a Palestinian national liberation movement that struggles for the liberation of the Palestinian occupied territories and for the recognition of the legitimate rights of Palestinians."1 In its manifesto in the lead-up to the 2006 elections, it stated: "Our Palestinian people are still living through the phase of national liberation; they have the right to endeavor to regain their rights and end the occupation using all available means, including armed resistance."2 It is because of this commitment to the national liberation struggle -- and the recognition among Palestinians that Hamas, whatever else it may stand for, refuses to concede on the question of resisting Israeli repression -- that the organization has won wide support. Hamas began to gain a hearing in the late 1980s, when the secular nationalist Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), dominated by the Fatah faction led by Yasser Arafat, gave up on the long-term goal of liberating all of historic Palestine -- and followed a path of negotiations that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. The culmination of Hamas' growing support was the January 2006 elections to the Palestine Legislative Assembly, in which Hamas won a majority. The reason for this victory lies not only in the failure of Oslo and the continued brutality of the Israeli occupation, but also mass disillusionment with the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority. Hamas' steadfast opposition to occupation and constant criticisms of Fatah's compromises, combined with its network of social service and charity agencies, bolstered its image not only among religious Muslims, but also among secularists and Christians. Despite its victory in free and fair elections, the U.S. and Israel sought to undermine and destroy Hamas. Israel suspended the transfer of tax revenues collected from Palestinians in the amount of $50 million a month. This began the strangulation of Gaza and set off a humanitarian crisis. While the public strategy involved the collective punishment of the people of Gaza for electing Hamas, Israel and its U.S. ally also undertook a secret operation to overthrow Hamas, funneling arms and money to Fatah fighters to enable them to carry out a coup in Hamas' base in Gaza. Hamas won the battle for Gaza, and Fatah was routed. Yet mainstream accounts of the conflict present Hamas as having launched a coup in order to come to power. Israel continued to step up its pressure on the people of Gaza, cutting off much-needed supplies, electricity, and essentials and launching a military assault late last month. The siege and the latest invasion of Gaza have caused untold suffering, death, and misery. But they have not accomplished Israel's aim of fomenting a Palestinian opposition ready to topple Hamas. On the contrary, the group continued to gain influence since the 2006 elections. The reason for this is simple. When a people lose their livelihood, their homes, their loved ones, and their dignity at the hands of an occupying power, they resist -- and in this case, the resistance movement is led by Hamas. If elections were to be held in occupied Palestine, Hamas would likely win again. This is not because all the people of Palestine agree with Hamas' Islamist principles -- and not at all because Palestinians are anti-Semitic fanatics -- but because people living under inhuman conditions imposed by an occupying power will turn to organizations that give voice to their aspirations for liberation. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hamas was founded in 1987 in the context of the first Palestinian uprising, or Intifada. Organizationally, it comes out of the Muslim Brotherhood, established in 1945 in Jerusalem. The Brotherhood was formed as a social welfare organization involved in cultural and social activities. It consciously stayed away from the arena of politics. Even after the formation of the state of Israel and the war of 1948, the Brotherhood maintained this approach. It operated on the premise that its primary goal was to Islamize society -- only secondarily would it "prepare the generations for battle" with Israel down the road. In 1948, when Israel took over and occupied 78 percent of historic Palestine, the movement was fractured and split between the West Bank and Gaza. The Brotherhood developed in different ways depending on the context. In the West Bank, which came under Jordanian control, it flourished and became a loyal opposition to Jordan's Hashemite regime. However, in Gaza, under Egyptian administration, its fate was similar to the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, which was persecuted by the ruling party. Under these conditions, it had to go underground and operate in secrecy. In 1967, when Israel annexed the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, the two Muslim Brotherhoods were brought together. This fused the clandestine and more militant tactics of the Gaza wing with the moderate tactics of the Jordanian one. >From 1967, the organization sought to expand its influence in a number of ways. Between 1967 and 1975, it launched a campaign to build mosques throughout the Occupied Territories. In this, it had the support of Israel, which had started to view the Brotherhood as an ally against the secular nationalist PLO, which dominated Palestinian politics.3 This dovetailed with a larger strategy adopted by the US in the region where, directly or indirectly through Saudi Arabia, it supported and funded Islamist groups as a bulwark against secular nationalist parties.4 In 1973, the Islamic Center (al-Mujamma al-islami) was founded in the Gaza Strip. The Mujamma, whose goal was to Islamize Gazan society, set up schools, medical clinics, day care centers, youth and sports clubs, and other social and communal forums tied to the mosque. In Gaza, the number of mosques increased from 77 in 1967 to 200 by 1989.5 The combination of mosques and social welfare organs would prove to be crucial means for propagating the movement's message and for recruiting cadres, at a time when the secular movements largely ignored these spheres. Nevertheless, the Islamists remained marginal players on the political scene. Up until the late 1980s, the Fatah movement and the PLO dominated Palestinian politics, with other more left-wing nationalist organizations vying for influence. Once again seeking to counter the secular nationalists, the Israeli government recognized and formally licensed the Mujamma in 1978. For Israel, now led by the conservative Likud Party, the Islamists' hostility to the left made them useful allies. At times, Israel even funded these forces. The Mujamma, in turn, routinely clashed with secular nationalists and far left forces. In 1980, it set fire to the Palestinian Red Crescent office, which was a stronghold of the left. After 1983, it engaged in violent clashes with PLO members for control over the Islamic University of Gaza. The most bitter and violent confrontations were with more far left groups, like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - In 1987, a popular Palestinian uprising, known as the Intifada, erupted first in the Gaza Strip and then in the West Bank. The Muslim Brotherhood (in the form of the Mujamma movement) was posed with a new reality that challenged its gradualist approach to Islamizing Palestinian society. Up to this point, the Brotherhood had strategically refrained from direct political activity in the national arena, concentrating on its social welfare organs. But it now ran the risk of losing credibility if it did not take part in the uprising. Hamas was set up by the leadership of the Brotherhood to respond to and participate in the Intifada. Even before the Intifada, a debate had been brewing between the quietist and militant sections of the MB's membership. As Khaled Hroub, one of the most authoritative writers on Hamas, explains: Internally and by the time of the Intifada, the rank and file of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood was witnessing intense internal debate on the passive approach to the Israeli occupation. One [section] pushed for change in policy toward confrontation with the occupation, thus bypassing [the other section, which stood for the] old and traditional thinking whose focus was on the Islamization of society first. . . When the Intifada erupted, the exponents of the confrontational policy gained a stronger position.6 Hamas was the product of the pressure exerted by the more nationalist and confrontationist section on the leadership of the Brotherhood. Around this time, the PLO, which had previously relied on the strategy of armed struggle to liberate all of historic Palestine, began to gravitate towards a more compromised stance. In particular, it relinquished the long-term goal of liberating all of Palestine and recognized the right of Israel to exist, and it opted for negotiations over struggle to form a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Many Palestinians held out hope that the Oslo peace process might address the horrific conditions under which they were forced to live. Yet by 2000, the sham of Oslo was exposed, leading to the second Intifada. Hamas was able to grow and gain influence because it rejected Oslo, by holding on to a vision of liberating all of historic Palestine. In short, the weakness and wrong turns of secular nationalism and the left created the opening for Hamas to grow. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hamas today is a different organization than the one that was founded in 1987. For instance, its 1988 charter makes little effort to distinguish between an anti-Zionist and an anti-Jewish stance. Yet the experience of fighting against the occupation and for national liberation transformed the organization -- in 1990, it published a document stating that its struggle was against Zionists and Zionism, and not Jews and Judaism. As Hroub wrote in 2000: Hamas' doctrinal discourse has diminished in intensity since the mid-1990s. And references to its charter by its leaders have been made rarely, if at all. The literature, statements and symbols used by Hamas have come to focus more and more on the idea that the core problem is the multidimensional issue of usurpation of Palestinian land, and the basic question is how to end the occupation. The notion of liberating Palestine has assumed greater importance than the general Islamic aspect (my italics).7 This does not mean that Hamas has ceased to be an Islamist party. Its day-to-day activities still involve a strong religious dimension. It devotes time and energy to educating its membership in its particular interpretation of Islam, to leading daily prayers, and to fighting "vice" in the streets. At certain times, Hamas members have intervened to stop what the organization defines as "immoral" behavior, such as partying, drinking alcohol, not wearing the hijab, mixed swimming, and so forth. One such incident occurred in 2005 in Gaza, when a Palestinian women was killed and her fiancé beaten up after they were found in his car at a beach. Hamas' position on women is reactionary; it sees them as primarily responsible for the home and family life. While it has repeatedly insisted that it will not force women to wear the hijab -- and has, for the most part, carried through on this -- there is an indirect pressure exerted on women to follow Hamas' views on veiling, if they wish to seek their help. Women can join Hamas, but their realms of activity are limited to charities and schools. They are largely invisible, and not one woman has occupied a leadership position in the organization since 1987. While a limited number of women have carried out suicide attacks, that task is assigned primarily to men. Nevertheless, it bears underling that Hamas is not as reactionary as the Taliban. It doesn't prohibit women from operating outside the family sphere. Thirteen of the 66 Hamas candidates who ran for election in 2006 were women. Yet despite seven winning their seats, only one woman was included in the cabinet -- and, predictably, she was put in charge of women's affairs. Hamas also differs from more fundamentalist Islamist parties in that it accepts the concept of the nation state, rather than the ummah, a religious community formation. Its party structures are modeled on Western ones, and its internal affairs are carried out in a more or less democratic manner. The leadership inside Palestine is elected from within, and by the rank and file. It is also not anti-science or anti-technology. Hamas exhibits all the contradictions of modern Islamist parties. It achieved prominence because of a political vacuum caused by the collapse of secular nationalism and the left. Yet given its politics and class basis, it doesn't present a long-term solution to the economic and political problems faced by the people who turn to it. The class basis of Islamism is the middle class or the petty bourgeoisie. In general, this class does not have the social weight necessary to bring the system to a standstill or force concessions from powerful groups. This problem is further compounded in the case of Hamas by the context of occupation. Hamas draws support from merchants, business people, and the rich, but its cadre and leadership are drawn largely from the educated middle classes or de-classed people in refugee camps. This explains why Hamas vacillates between armed struggle and radical pronouncements on the one hand, and ceasefires and concessions on the other. Ultimately, these strategies are a dead end. Palestinian liberation will depend on support from outside the Occupied Territories -- most obviously, from the region's working classes, among whom massive sympathy and solidarity with the Palestinian cause exists. Israel's assault on Gaza stirred huge demonstrations around the world, from Indonesia and Pakistan to South Africa and Europe -- with some of the largest in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, and Turkey. In Egypt, in particular, the working class has expressed both anger against the neoliberal Mubarak regime and sympathy for the Palestinian cause -- a revolt that toppled Mubarak would remove a crucial source of complicity with Israel's occupation. A strategy that offers hope for Palestinian liberation would connect workers' struggles throughout the region to the fight for one secular, democratic state in Palestine. And that would lay the basis for a lasting peace in the Middle East. 1 Khaled Hroub, Hamas: A Beginner's Guide, Ann Arbor, MI: Pluto Press, 2006, p. 17. 2 Azzam Tamini, Hamas: A History from Within, Olive Branch Press, 2007, p. 294. 3 Shaul Mishal and Avraham Sela, The Palestinian Hamas, New York: Columbia University Press, 2000, p. 21. 4 See Robet Dreyfuss, Devil's Game: How the United States helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam, New York:Henry Holt and Company, 2005. 5 Mishal and Sela, p. 21. 6 Hroub, 2006, p. 13. 7 Khalid Hroub, Hamas: Political Thought and Practice, Institute for Palestine Studies, 2000, p. 44. ________________________________ Deepa Kumar is Assistant Professor of Media Studies at Rutgers University. She is currently working on a book on Political Islam, US Foreign Policy, and the Media. From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 12:07:39 2009 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:07:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir - the elephant in the room In-Reply-To: References: <4fcaee300901230102p33a38727xdf787b9ccd519117@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4fcaee300901232237t1abfc227r4cd78691200ebc8a@mail.gmail.com> Its widely written that the Indian military presence in its controlled part of Kashmir is between 500,000 to 700,000 soldiers. Time magazine in one of its September 2008 issue writes: "What does it say about India that people are losing faith, or losing interest, in Kashmir? It is a sign of frustration, first of all, with India's political failure to live up to that promise of unity in diversity. Over the years, the Indian government has poured millions of dollars of aid into Kashmir and spent millions more putting down the separatist insurgency. But it fails to understand that peace isn't just the absence of fighting. It's in the political details: withdrawing the half-million Indian troops who still occupy Kashmir, developing the local economy and, most importantly, accounting for what human-rights groups say are widespread abuses committed against Kashmiri civilians by the military. " For the full piece the link is: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1838586,00.html International Herald Tribune (IHT), July 25, 2007 "India has an estimated 700,000 soldiers in Kashmir, fighting nearly a dozen rebel groups since 1989. In many areas, the region has the feel of an occupied country, with soldiers in full combat gear patrolling streets and frisking civilians." The link is: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/25/asia/AS-GEN-Kashmir-Sexual-Assault.php Washington Post (dated Feb 6, 2007) also talks about the number of soldiers in the region. The link for the story is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/06/AR2007020600857.html Best, Wali On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Jamie Dow wrote: > > Interesting piece. One snippet intrigued me: > "few outside the region are even aware that India still has half a > million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily militarised > corners of the planet." > > Is this true? 500,000 troops in Kashmir, just on the Indian side? > If so, it's a huge financial drain for India (and presumably also for > Pakistan). > Can anyone provide any confirmation (or otherwise) of this assertion? > > Jamie > ____________________________________________ > Jamie Dow Research Fellow IDEA CETL Tel: +44 113 343 7887 Email: > J.Dow at leeds.ac.uk Web: > http://www.philosophy.leeds.ac.uk/Staff/JD/index.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Wali Arifi > Sent: 23 January 2009 09:03 > To: Sarai > Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir - the elephant in the room > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5566533.ece > > January 22, 2009 > World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room In our latest daily > column, the Times' Delhi bureau chief says India must not ignore Kashmir > when searching for explanations for extremism Jeremy Page > > Arrogant, ham-handed, startling, impertinent - these are the sort of > words used here, with reason, to describe David Miliband's comments on > the Mumbai attacks last week. > > There is another word, though, that applies equally well: correct. > > Of course it was impolitic to contradict Manmohan Singh, the Prime > Minister, by saying that Britain does not believe the Pakistani state > directed the Mumbai attacks. > > As for suggesting that the root cause of such attacks is Kashmir, surely > the FCO recalls India's outrage in 1997 when Robin Cook suggested > mediating on that issue? > > For the current Foreign Secretary of the former colonial ruler to make > both these points publicly, while on Indian soil, was either > deliberately provocative or incredibly naive. > > Mr Miliband also managed to cause offence with his tone and body > language - a schoolboy error in dealing with a notoriously sensitive > partner. > > The fact remains, however: he was spot on. > > Indian officials admit in private that there is no evidence yet of a > direct link between Mumbai and the Pakistani state, even if they are > sure that it played a role. > > More significantly, most regional experts agree with Mr Miliband that > "resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in > the region one of their main calls to arms". > > For too long, Kashmir has been the "elephant in the room" in the > international discourse on security in South Asia - and a stain on the > copybook of the world's largest democracy. > > In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a > plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan. > > Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international > efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three > wars with Pakistan. > > Now that both have nuclear weapons, Kashmir is a legitimate concern for > the whole world, yet foreigners who bring it up are invariably shouted > down. > > India's media rarely challenges government policy there, while the > foreign media has been understandably focused on Pakistan and > Afghanistan since 9/11. > > As a result, few outside the region are even aware that India still has > half a million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily > militarised corners of the planet. > > Or that by official estimates, more than 47,000 people have been killed > there since an uprising against Indian rule began in 1989 (rights groups > put the toll nearer 70,000). > > Or that that Kashmir's four million Muslims routinely suffer arbitrary > arrest, torture and extra-judicial execution by security forces, > according to most rights groups. > > Last year alone, at least 42 people were killed by security forces in > protests against Indian rule. By comparison, 22 people were killed in > the anti-China riots in Tibet in 2008. > > Kashmir's problems do not justify the Mumbai attacks. > > But in trying to prevent more attacks in India and elsewhere, it is > ludicrous to continue to ignore Indian policy in the region. The fact is > that Kashmir is the primary motivation for most terrorists in India and > Pakistan. It is also why Pakistan's spies maintain links with such > people. > > The real reason India is so upset is that Mr Miliband's words reflect > the thinking of President Obama, who plans to appoint a special envoy on > South Asia. > > The idea is for this envoy to take a more holistic approach to the > region, including Kashmir, to address the concerns of all the major > stakeholders. > > It is a good idea and Mr Obama and his allies should continue to promote > it, however loudly India complains. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From nicheant at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 24 14:50:04 2009 From: nicheant at yahoo.co.uk (Nishant) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:20:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Encyclopedia Britannica goes Wikipedia way Message-ID: <24182.17534.qm@web27906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Britannica reaches out to the web ............. The Encyclopaedia Britannica has unveiled a plan to let readers help keep the reference work up to date. ............. Under the plan, readers and contributing experts will help expand and maintain entries online. Experts will also be enrolled in a reward scheme and given help to promote their command of a subject. However, Britannica said it would not follow the Wikipedia in letting a wide range of people make contributions to its encyclopaedia. User choice "We are not abdicating our responsibility as publishers or burying it under the now-fashionable 'wisdom of the crowds'," wrote Jorge Cauz, president of Encyclopaedia Britannica in a blog entry about the changes. He added: "We believe that the creation and documentation of knowledge is a collaborative process but not a democratic one." Britannica plans to do more with the experts that have already made contributions. They will be encouraged to keep articles up to date and be given a chance to promote their own expertise. Selected readers will also be invited to contribute and many readers will be able to use Britannica materials to create their own works that will be featured on the site. However, it warned these would sit alongside the encyclopaedia entries and the official material would carry a "Britannica Checked" stamp, to distinguish it from the user-generated content. Alongside the move towards more openness, will be a re-design of the Britannica site and the creation of the web-based tools that visitors can use to put together their own reference materials. Britannica has unveiled a beta, or trial, version of what will become the finished Britannica Online website. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7846986.stm From navayana at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 15:34:39 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:34:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When a Mutant Class Switches Off Message-ID: *Misleading Gandhigiri* *Switching off mobile phones for a day will not stop India Inc from endorsing Narendra Modi as PM* Tehelka, 31 Jan 2009 http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Op310109misleading_gandhigiri.asp S ANAND Publisher, Navayana AN ONLINE petition to observe 30 January 2009 as Cellular Silence Day has been doing the rounds. Drafted by Ranjan Kamath, a filmmaker, it is addressed to Messrs Ratan Tata, Sunil Bharti Mittal and Anil Ambani — prominent Indian industrialists with a global presence who need no introduction. The petition seeks to give voice to the billion-plus Indian Davids who are dismayed by the endorsement of Narendra Modi as future prime minister by the three 'corporate Goliaths'. That Modi — who inspired and abetted the massacre of over 2,000 Muslims in the 2002 pogrom — is the darling of the unscrupulous corporate world, is not surprising. Gujarat is a state where Kalinganagar-style shootings do not happen (12 dalits and adivasis were killed in police firing on 2 January, 2006 in Orissa while protesting a Tata Steel project); where Singur-style protests won't be witnessed even when 1,100 acres are given away for a song. Before expressing "revulsion" at their "endorsement of Narendra Modi", the petition of the Davids humours the Goliaths: "I am proud of the brands you represent that have made India proud. I am one of the burgeoning Indian middle-class that share your aspirations of mutating India from indolent elephant to thundering tiger." The petition has over 3,000 signatures featuring several prominent Indian public intellectuals, academics, publishers, artists, writers, lawyers and many who would call themselves 'secular' in that quaintly Indian, holdall way. The petition is being promoted on Facebook pages, email lists, and other social networking sites. To be counted as a 'progressive' person, one had to sign up. On one page of the petition, ICICI Lombard solicits for insurance. On another page, a Tata housing ad featuring Kapil Dev pops up. Befitting. There are two reasons why we should not sign the petition and join this fellowship of the selectively righteous. First, it assumes that the model of corporate growth that the Tatas, Ambanis (the heirs of the Polyester Prince Dhirubhai) and Mittals stand for and their brands make most Indians proud. The petition, despite being drafted after the Satyam fraud unspooled, willingly overlooks corporate irresponsibility on several counts. If Ratan Tata, Anil Ambani, Kumaramangalam Birla and Sunil Mittal had not endorsed Narendra Modi, would their style of corporate capitalism be any less culpable? What do we do with Ratan Tata who was recently batting for Dow Chemicals — Dow, that had purchased Union Carbide for $9.3 billion as a wholly-owned subsidiary; Union Carbide that was responsible for the 1984 Bhopal gas leak that left more than 15,000 dead and 1,50,000 disabled? When Dow refused legal or moral liability for the Bhopal disaster, Ratan Tata, as chairman of the Industrialist and Investment Commission, wanted the $46- billion chemical giant to be absolved of all liabilities. He even wrote letters to the then Union Finance Minister P Chidambaram, the PMO, and Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia pleading Dow's case. Protestors in Bhopal sought to boycott all Tata products. This was not a switch-off-yourmobiles- for-a-day kind of boycott. If Ratan Tata could seek to absolve Dow of any culpability in the killing of 15,000 and the 'legacy issue' of the 1984 disaster, why would he remember Gujarat 2002? In the 1990s, conscientious consumers sought to boycott Eveready batteries produced by Union Carbide. Eveready's retort was the 'Gimme Red' ad campaign — celebrated for being ahead of its time. The brand has thrived, and Amitabh Bachchan was roped in as brand ambassador in 2006. Eveready is said to hold a 47 percent marketshare of the Rs 1,500 crore dry cell battery market. Let's look at the material reasons for Ratan Tata's love for Narendra Modi. Tata Motors gets a soft loan of Rs 9,570 crore at a negligible interest of 0.1 per cent to shift the Nano project to Gujarat. Repayment is deferred for 20 years. In all, the Modi Government has offered over Rs 30,000 crore in sops to Tata Motors. So Ratan Tata says, "You are stupid if you are not in Gujarat." Martin Macwan, a human rights campaigner in Gujarat, compares this with the compensation offered to Dalits who have been forced to do manual scavenging. To quit the profession and seek an alternative livelihood, the state offers them a rehabilitation package — a bank loan of Rs 80,000 at 11 percent interest. Stigmatised Dalits, forced into a subhuman occupation for generations, are asked to pay hundred times more interest for a pittance of a loan. With which they sometimes open a tea stall. From which no one would drink tea. India officially has 7,70,338 manual scavengers and the state is the biggest employer. The Ambanis have always loved Modi. Since Dhirubhai's days, they have actively colluded with right-wing Hindu religious leaders in Gujarat such as Ramesh Oza and Murari Bapu. Meera Nanda notes in her forthcoming book that while Modi granted 85 acres of land close to the Porbandar airport to Oza's Sandipani Vidyaniketan — a temple-'rishikul' complex, a school for rishis — Dhirubhai Ambani provided the financial resources for raising the building. The second reason to oppose this rather unintelligent petition endorsed by the 'secular' intelligentsia owes to its poor understanding of ethics and politics. The petition concludes with the plea that "India Inc adopt an ethical, compassionate path to wealth creation rather than the single-minded pursuit of the bottom-line." If only these industrialists had not endorsed Modi as prime ministerial material, it appears the rest of their pursuits of wealth are justifiable, for they "make Indians proud". Crucially, the petition seeks inspiration from Mohandas Gandhi. The underlying assumption, rather received knowledge, is that Gandhi stood for an ethical, compassionate approach to wealth making. This erroneous perception owes to mythmaking about Gandhi, the saint. Celebrated today as an anti-imperialist icon owing to his role in the anti-colonial struggle in India, and also for his critique of industrialisation propounded in his Hind Swaraj (1908), Gandhi was essentially a social conservative. This was BR Ambedkar's main charge against Gandhi for his endorsement of caste and varnashrama dharma. But let us focus here on Gandhi's swarajist economic policies and his collusion with the conservative industrialists of his time. Gandhi's friendship with Ghanshyam Das Birla (1894-1983) was a mutually beneficial affair. Birla was a source of limitless finance for Gandhi. In a letter to Birla on 10 January 1927, Gandhi wrote, "My thirst for money is simply unquenchable. I need at least Rs 2,00,000 — for khadi, untouchability and education. The dairy work makes another Rs 50,000. Then there is the Ashram expenditure. No work remains unfinished for want of funds, but God gives after severe trials. This also satisfies me. You can give as you like for whatever work you have faith in." As Sarojini Naidu sardonically noted, it cost a lot to keep Gandhi poor. IF THE local Congress office today arranges quilts when Rahul Gandhi and UK Foreign Secretary David Milliband decide on some poverty tourism in a Dalit ghetto, such window-dressing was the task of the Birlas when Mohandas Gandhi decided to occasionally spend time in 'bhangi' bastis. Margaret Bourke-White, the Life photojournalist who chronicled Gandhi, notes that half the residents of the ghettos were moved out, and the huts prettified before Gandhi's visit. Dinanath Tiang of the Birla Group rationalises the improvements in the Dalit colony to White thus, "We have cared for Gandhiji's comfort for the last 20 years." Cooked food for Gandhi would also be sourced by the Birlas. Gandhi believed it was "the Brahmin's duty to look after the sanitation of the soul, the Bhangi's that of the body of society." It was such reasoning that made him describe scavenging as the "most honourable occupation" and the bhangi "while deriving his livelihood from his occupation, would approach it only as a sacred duty. In other words, he would not dream of amassing wealth out of it." It was this patronising attitude and hypocrisy that made Ambedkar fume, "The special feature of Gandhism is to delude people into accepting their misfortunes by presenting them as the best of good fortunes." Since the petition calls for a token one-day boycott of telephone and Internet services provided by Tata, Mittal and Ambani, we need to recall Gandhi's call for the boycott of British products, especially the use of cloth made in Britain's mills. While he propagated the use of hand-spun cloth, he beat a retreat when this advocacy conflicted with Birla's interests as an owner of mills. In 1928, when Gandhi complained that people were buying mill-produced khadi mistaking it for homespun, Birla read this as a veiled criticism of his mills and riposted, "Do you not think that you are unnecessarily exaggerating the results of the khadi propaganda? You could find this out yourself if you send hawkers with mill-made as well as shuddha khadi who may ask some villagers to select their choice after explaining the latter properly about the quality as well as the price of the cloth, I have not the least doubt that if you made the experiment you will find that 90 per cent of the consumers will pick up the cheaper and more lasting of the two stuffs. Mill khadi is popular because people find it cheap, durable besides it being swadeshi make." Leah Renold, an American scholar who has examined Gandhi's relationship with GD Birla, says Gandhi did not wish to precipitate the issue for he was financially dependent on Birla, his patron, in whose palatial Delhi home Gandhi stayed for over 25 years. She says, "Gandhi never allowed the khadi issue to become an object of contention between himself and Birla. Instead he found a place for mills in the khadi movement." In 1930, Gandhi wrote to Birla, "I am convinced that the boycott will be successful only through khadi. This does not mean that the mills have no place in the scheme at all. The mills can have their deserved place by recognising the worth of khadi. The conception of God envelopes all Gods." The swadeshi industrialists whom Gandhi blessed would conveniently betray the 'nationalist' cause of the Congress when it suited them. Following the Quit India movement of 1942, Indian business leaders, including JRD Tata and GD Birla, submitted a memorandum to the Viceroy saying, "We are all businessmen and therefore we need hardly point out that our interest lies in peace, harmony, goodwill and order throughout the country." Ambedkar's indictment of Gandhism was severe. Drawing our attention to "Gandhian attitude to strikes, the Gandhian reverence for Caste and the Gandhian doctrine of Trusteeship by the rich for the benefit of the poor," he characterises Gandhism as "the philosophy of the well-to-do and the leisure class." It is not surprising that Gandhi, whose poverty was a costly act sponsored by Birla, is someone the conservative classes in India look up to time and again. Bourke-White's investigations revealed that workers in Birla's mills had genuine grievances — their demand for a cost of living bonus to meet rising prices was met with gunfire and rifle butts. When the workers petitioned Gandhi in December 1947, he merely forwarded their letter to Birla. Bourke-White, on visiting Birla's mills, found the conditions to be appalling and wonders in her book Halfway to Freedom (1949) why Gandhi would not visit the mills and verify for himself. The mightiest of Davids was sitting in the comfort of cushy bolsters in the palace of a Goliath — Birla House. Thinking of which, the petition insults our intelligence even with the myths it evokes, forcing us to use the dangerous David (Israeli) versus Goliath (Palestinian) similie at a time when Palestine has witnessed a brazen terror attack by Israel. IN THIS SENSE, the online petition is a genuine tribute to Gandhi and his endorsement of gestural politics — a guiltexpiation exercise that is essentially Gandhian. The drafter of the petition says, "It is not an easy task for us to keep our cell phones and Blackberries switched off for an entire day on January 30, the 61st anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi's assassination. However, it ought to be sufficient to get the message across to corporate India that we will not tolerate the endorsement of fascists as future prime ministers." This is a post-Munnabhai tokenism, no different from SMS polls or candlelight vigils sponsored by television channels. Would this consumerist class, proud of its Blackberries and broadbands, attempt a complete boycott of Reliance/Tata/Mittal products? A true boycott is what the African-Americans led by Martin Luther King effected for over a year, from December 1955 to December 1956, known as the Montgomery Bus Boycott against segregation in buses. This boycott seriously affected the profits of not just the public transport system but the entire economy. In India, the Dalits can barely dream of a similar boycott, for they are themselves subjected to social and economic boycott by caste Hindus if they assert their humanity. Only a class that has some economic clout can effect a serious boycott. Would the signatories to the petition be willing to create a Montgomery-like crisis for our homegrown capitalists? How many would not buy a Nano since its low price-tag is going to be heavily over-subsidised by Modi and perhaps cross-subsidised by the 11 percent rate of interest that rehabilitated manual scavengers are forced to pay? Corporate capitalism and religious extremism ain't strange bedfellows. As they copulate, they produce a mutated class that deludes itself into believing that observing cellular silence for a day would be just enough sacrifice. >From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 4, Dated Jan 31, 2009 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 17:41:42 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:41:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Weird India Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901240411y57e20c4coe07b4a9b8ae4e0c5@mail.gmail.com> Just be cautious when you enter a pub/bar in Mumbai city in India. Drinking beer or any other alcohol without your individual pemit can land you up in serious trouble if you do not have an annual permit. This is true fact of weird India. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sat Jan 24 19:13:28 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:43:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <955203.78036.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <59293.44657.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf, Have you come across this survey published in a Pakistani newspaper? http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ "Fifteen percent of participants in the Karachi-based study supported suicide bombing and said that Islam and other religions supported it." "However, nearly 50 percent of all those surveyed in Karachi believed that suicide bombing was acceptable in Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most cosmopolitan of all Pak cities. You probably know Pakistan better than me,so can you comment if I am wrong in my assumption that there is probably no other place in Pakistan that can be expected to have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions polled. Do you think this is a significant difference? How do you plan to bridge this divide? Thanks Rahul --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , "Peace Initiative" > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, editor at hindustantimes.com > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM > Here is a letter I wrote in response to an HT article > (copied at bottom): > ----- > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I am wondering if this > is the same country which produced Gandhi, Kabir, Buddha and > such non-violent people. While you find the job of the > “peaceniks” futile and a waste of time, I found your > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a large number of people on > both sides of the border are fed up with terror and violence > and are anxious for a workable solution. But much of your > essay is an extremely pessimistic attack on such people who > try to channelize their angst into productive and positive > use. You doubt the very intentions of the people who > genuinely want peace. If you are proposing that all efforts > of peace and reconciliation and the people-to-people contact > between India and Pakistan be shut and replaced simply by a > cold “co-existence”, how exactly do you define this > co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing right now? How can a > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties between Indian and > Pakistani activists do not serve any purpose, but I found > your statement that there are actually no commonalities > between the culture of India and Pakistan rather juvenile. > If India and Pakistan should be hostile to each other > because they are culturally dissimilar, then we should have > a million more partitions within India due to our cultural > differences. > > I think the efforts of peace activists of the two countries > have remained less effective so far because their reach has > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or Lahore only. If they > reached smaller and remote places such as Gorakhpur, > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and meet the ordinary > people, they’ll probably be able to understand each other > better and realize that not everyone in these countries > wants war. When you say that there is “an irreparable > divide, and the attempts to bridge it are both unrealistic > and impossible”, I think the divide has been created by > the governments and writers like you. The ordinary people of > the two countries are the only ones who can bridge this > divide, if you stop writing such nonsense. > > Yousuf Saeed > New Delhi > > (on behalf of many friends in India and Pakistan who will > continue to strive for peace, dialogue and reconciliation) > > > ----- > > > We’re not all in it together > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > January 22, 2009 > > With tension between India and Pakistan escalating, the > self-appointed ambassadors of peace have their hands full. > Irrespective of the inappropriateness of marketing peace at > a time when India has yet to come to terms with 26/11, > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. Last week a > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar with a banner of > friendship; another is invading Delhi to talk peace. Worse > still, their Indian counterparts held meetings to ensure > that their peace mission was a roaring success, apart from > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or they us, they are > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make endless comparisons > and list commonalities in food, dress, language, culture and > of course history. Politically correct, but untrue because > there are distinct differences in the respective cuisines, > languages, festivals, customs, rituals and religion. What > are common are the scars of Partition and a blood-stained > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend do not exist as they > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while pining for a no-visa > regime. It’s all very well to savour kebabs and hosting > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface and there is > acrimony: raw wounds that have little chance of healing. > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and positions harden. Then it > is ‘you versus us’ rather than ‘you and us’. > > So even while President Asif Ali Zardari tried to charm > Indians at the HT summit by saying that there is a little > bit of India in every Pakistani and vice versa, the truth is > that there is no love lost between the two. It is rare to > find an Indian warming up to a Pakistani. However hard we > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual suspicion sealed by > history. There is an irreparable divide and attempts to > bridge it are both unrealistic and impossible. Marching to > the Wagah border to light candles for peace is at best a > goodwill gesture with no tangible results. In other words, a > waste of time. Consequently when an enraged Pranab > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, sheds diplomacy and > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > This being the ground reality, it is time to shed > superficial bonhomie and get real, and abandon the song and > dance about friendship. We need to be brutally honest and > change tack from a focus on peace to co-existence. It is > compulsions of geography and not bonds of history that force > us to live side by side. Replacing peace with co-existence > will also help end the “like-mindedness” theory and > reveal common meeting points in place of non-workable > alliances. It will end pretensions about camaraderie and > help us face reality: however hard, bitter and brutal it may > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will be much easier to > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering on aggression. > > Erase the friendship logo and there could be a road ahead; > abandon the thought of jointly treading the path and > solutions could be on the anvil. But break bread together > and it is a non- starter because despite the kebabs and > candles, terror attacks and a volatile Indo-Pak border are > the order of the day. > > The only casualty here would be the peaceniks. Not only > will they be out of work but will be unwilling to accept > that what they have been marketing all these years is an > illusion. > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 20:01:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:01:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Modi being the great CM Message-ID: Dear all This is neither a criticism of Modi, nor a praise for him from my side. This article is about the man known as the 'most efficient CM' of India as per different surveys conducted by different agencies. http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090202&fname=Good+for+India+(F)&sid=2 *It's An Iron Hand In An Iron Glove* *Narendra Modi may have many middle-class admirers who believe he's the most efficient chief minister in the country. But there's another side to him.* R.K. Misra *Blood Diamond* The beleaguered diamond cutting and polishing industry (annual turnover Rs 80,000 crore) expected a bailout when Modi came to Surat to inaugurate an international exhibition of gems and jewellery on December 26. Instead, it got a dressing down. "When you were making huge profits, you gave nothing to the state. Now, when there's a crisis, you want help," Modi thundered. He then warned the industry against any layoffs. Despite his expression of solidarity, 35 diamond workers or their next of kin have committed suicide since the meltdown began. The most recent incident: Haresh Ramani, 22, from Lilapur village, Rajkot district, killed himself on January 20. *This Is No Break* When a delegation of shipbreakers from Alang called on him with a list of grievances, they were shown the door. The CM didn't want to hear them out. When a national newspaper ran a campaign on the appointment of a Modi favourite as the new Ahmedabad police commissioner, expressing the view that the city was not in safe hands, sedition charges were slapped on it. *Retaliation Begins At Home* VHP leader Ashwin Patel was arrested on October 27 on sedition charges for circulating an anti-CM SMS. Other charges included forgery and inciting communal violence. It was a month before he obtained bail. Upbraiding the police, Justice Z.K. Saiyed of the Gujarat High Court said, "Have you read the section describing sedition?" Sunil Oza, now with the Mahagujarat Janata Party, was expelled from the BJP in 2007 after Modi suspected that he had leaked details of irregularities in the Sujalam-Sufalam irrigation project to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). Says Oza: "It is plain and simple political terrorism practised by a chief minister with a dictatorial streak." *No Advice Please, I'm Modi* Last September, bureaucrats heading state public sector corporations and then chief secretary Manjula Subramaniam tried in vain to dissuade Modi from diverting 30 per cent of profit before tax from PSES for social causes. Subramaniam even pointed out that funds could be sourced from unlisted PSES but listed PSES, where private investors have put in money, should be left alone. An adamant Modi went ahead, sending share prices dipping. At the behest of the Modi government, the Sardar Sarovar Narmada Nigam Ltd (SSNNL) prematurely redeemed its 20-year bonds. Priced Rs 3,600 each, the bonds had been issued 1993 and were to bring investors Rs 1.11 lakh in 20 years, though investors had the option to redeem them in the seventh, eleventh, or fifteenth year. But SSNNL did not have the right to unilaterally call back the bonds, so the government legislated in 2008 to allow premature redemption. Petitions challenging the validity of such a legislation are pending in high court. >From my side: >From what I understand, first of all Modi allowed violence to take place after Godhra (and if his party's allegation that Muslims burnt the train is true, it's a double whammy, as he and his govt. failed to protect karsevaks belonging to sister organizations of his party). On top of that, his economic policies, in the manner they have been implemented, have been under severe criticism. On the social sector, the dipping of the sex ratio (females per 1000 males), if true, could be another disaster in the making. Modi has ditched his own parivar, after using them to the hilt in 2002 Gujarat elections. He has forgotten those who then campaigned with him (of course for a wrong motive). Now, his govt in the last year was in the forefront of demolishing temples in the name of removing encroachments. This kind of working may lead to social and economic disasters. After all, it's always better to listen to different voices before making the decision, for which Modi can definitely claim as his own. And what these instances point out is that while Modi is totally hard or firm in whatever he does, it also means that Modi may just take a wrong decision like George Bush used to do, and then people elsewhere may have to suffer for it. And remember, America has an Obama, who do we have? Regards Rakesh From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 24 20:06:45 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:36:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <59293.44657.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <940198.5633.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul The result of the survey you mentioned must be true - I will not contest that. I am sure if we do a survey in India, an equal number of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be eradicated from the face of the earth. Same result may come up in America or elsewhere. People are not born with those answers for the surveys - they are brainwashed. One of the delegates that arrived from Pakistan early this week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, but he won't have become a terrorist if there was a school in his village". I think that says a lot about the situation in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate this because for us they are an enemy - "to hell with them if they don't have schools in their village". But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror possible by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt. Was the might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda by crushing Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the situation become worse now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural complexities of our region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were interviewed in the survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. The only image that their education system has given them of India is that of an enemy. A violent confrontation will only strengthen that image for them (and for us about them). But I agree that just a people-to-people contact is not the only effective solution - but it can probably help in improving the results of those surveys in each other's favour. If someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, or do you kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict you. That's the choice we have to make. Yousuf --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , "Peace Initiative" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, editor at hindustantimes.com > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 PM > Dear Yousuf, > Have you come across this survey published in a Pakistani > newspaper? > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > "Fifteen percent of participants in the Karachi-based > study supported suicide bombing and said that Islam and > other religions supported it." > "However, nearly 50 percent of all those surveyed in > Karachi believed that suicide bombing was acceptable in > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most cosmopolitan of > all Pak cities. > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so can you > comment if I am wrong in my assumption that there is > probably no other place in Pakistan that can be expected to > have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions polled. > Do you think this is a significant difference? How do you > plan to bridge this divide? > > Thanks > Rahul > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > illusion? > > To: "sarai list" > , "Peace Initiative" > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > editor at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM > > Here is a letter I wrote in response to an HT article > > (copied at bottom): > > ----- > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I am wondering if > this > > is the same country which produced Gandhi, Kabir, > Buddha and > > such non-violent people. While you find the job of the > > “peaceniks” futile and a waste of time, I found > your > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a large number of > people on > > both sides of the border are fed up with terror and > violence > > and are anxious for a workable solution. But much of > your > > essay is an extremely pessimistic attack on such > people who > > try to channelize their angst into productive and > positive > > use. You doubt the very intentions of the people who > > genuinely want peace. If you are proposing that all > efforts > > of peace and reconciliation and the people-to-people > contact > > between India and Pakistan be shut and replaced simply > by a > > cold “co-existence”, how exactly do you define > this > > co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing right now? How > can a > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties between Indian > and > > Pakistani activists do not serve any purpose, but I > found > > your statement that there are actually no > commonalities > > between the culture of India and Pakistan rather > juvenile. > > If India and Pakistan should be hostile to each other > > because they are culturally dissimilar, then we should > have > > a million more partitions within India due to our > cultural > > differences. > > > > I think the efforts of peace activists of the two > countries > > have remained less effective so far because their > reach has > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or Lahore only. If > they > > reached smaller and remote places such as Gorakhpur, > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and meet the > ordinary > > people, they’ll probably be able to understand each > other > > better and realize that not everyone in these > countries > > wants war. When you say that there is “an > irreparable > > divide, and the attempts to bridge it are both > unrealistic > > and impossible”, I think the divide has been created > by > > the governments and writers like you. The ordinary > people of > > the two countries are the only ones who can bridge > this > > divide, if you stop writing such nonsense. > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > New Delhi > > > > (on behalf of many friends in India and Pakistan who > will > > continue to strive for peace, dialogue and > reconciliation) > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > We’re not all in it together > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > January 22, 2009 > > > > With tension between India and Pakistan escalating, > the > > self-appointed ambassadors of peace have their hands > full. > > Irrespective of the inappropriateness of marketing > peace at > > a time when India has yet to come to terms with 26/11, > > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. Last week a > > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar with a banner > of > > friendship; another is invading Delhi to talk peace. > Worse > > still, their Indian counterparts held meetings to > ensure > > that their peace mission was a roaring success, apart > from > > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or they us, they are > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make endless > comparisons > > and list commonalities in food, dress, language, > culture and > > of course history. Politically correct, but untrue > because > > there are distinct differences in the respective > cuisines, > > languages, festivals, customs, rituals and religion. > What > > are common are the scars of Partition and a > blood-stained > > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend do not exist as > they > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while pining for a > no-visa > > regime. It’s all very well to savour kebabs and > hosting > > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface and there is > > acrimony: raw wounds that have little chance of > healing. > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and positions harden. > Then it > > is ‘you versus us’ rather than ‘you and us’. > > > > So even while President Asif Ali Zardari tried to > charm > > Indians at the HT summit by saying that there is a > little > > bit of India in every Pakistani and vice versa, the > truth is > > that there is no love lost between the two. It is rare > to > > find an Indian warming up to a Pakistani. However hard > we > > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual suspicion > sealed by > > history. There is an irreparable divide and attempts > to > > bridge it are both unrealistic and impossible. > Marching to > > the Wagah border to light candles for peace is at best > a > > goodwill gesture with no tangible results. In other > words, a > > waste of time. Consequently when an enraged Pranab > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, sheds diplomacy > and > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > This being the ground reality, it is time to shed > > superficial bonhomie and get real, and abandon the > song and > > dance about friendship. We need to be brutally honest > and > > change tack from a focus on peace to co-existence. It > is > > compulsions of geography and not bonds of history that > force > > us to live side by side. Replacing peace with > co-existence > > will also help end the “like-mindedness” theory > and > > reveal common meeting points in place of non-workable > > alliances. It will end pretensions about camaraderie > and > > help us face reality: however hard, bitter and brutal > it may > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will be much easier > to > > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering on aggression. > > > > Erase the friendship logo and there could be a road > ahead; > > abandon the thought of jointly treading the path and > > solutions could be on the anvil. But break bread > together > > and it is a non- starter because despite the kebabs > and > > candles, terror attacks and a volatile Indo-Pak border > are > > the order of the day. > > > > The only casualty here would be the peaceniks. Not > only > > will they be out of work but will be unwilling to > accept > > that what they have been marketing all these years is > an > > illusion. > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 24 21:21:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:51:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <940198.5633.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <59293.44657.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <940198.5633.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901240751g3a7d48ebo35c6ac1a299f5fc1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rahul Asthana Thank you for posting the link to the blog and sharing with us your assumptions and questions. The argument in your post seems to me as thus- A survey is carried out by Aga Khan University, which is a respectable university of Karachi. The findings of the survey suggest that 15% support suicide bombings. These finding makes you anxious. As they would cause anxiety in any thinking person. The poser is- Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most cosmopolitan of all Pak cities. in my assumption that there is probably no other place in Pakistan that can > > be expected to have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions polled. The premise in this argument seems to be, cosmopolitanism breeds less fundamentalism. If that is the case then how do you explain Bombay of 1992, Delhi of 1984, LA of 1992 etc etc? Could you please explain this co-relationship, that you seem to be hinting at? Where do you think this co-relationship started, clearly if you look at the history of urbanism then surely cities must not have become cosmopolitan right from the word go? So these Cities must have evolved into major trading centers and must have acquired traits of a cosmopolitan city.In your learned opinion when was the time when city centers or rather people who were in charge of these city centers, decided-this much and no more, from now on we are not going to allow religious bigotry to come in between trade and cosmopolitanism? Could you please give us some evidence to support your rather profound observation? Now, lets come back to the blog that you so kindly posted. The Survey which Ammerhamza posted was part of news report by Nayel Noorani. This survey was conducted by,Kazim SF, Aly Z, Bangash HK, Harchandani BP, Irfan AB, Javed SM, Khalil-ur-Rehman R, Naqvi H, and Khan MM under the guidance of one, Abdul Wahab Yousafzai, who is a professor of Psychiatry at the Aga Khan University. (Please follow the link for more- http://www.aku.edu/medicalcollege/psychiatry/abdulwahab.shtml) For this survey 215 people were interviewed. The population of Karachi according to the official website of City District Government of Karachi is 18,000,000 2007 (Please see-http://www.karachicity.gov.pk/) The finding of the Survey represents the opinions of just 215 people. Now, I do not understand how could the opinion of 215 people in any possible way represent the opinions and attitudes 18,000,000 2007 people. This means that the ratio of sample size to the census was to the magnitude of just 0.00000011 percent of the population. Please do not get me wrong here, Rahul, because I earnestly want to understand this relationship between numbers and representation. But at the same time I am not able to decide and think with as much confidence as you seem to be thinking. Your confidence to relate to views of just 215 people to a whole city and post this on a public list is indeed worth an applaud. May I plead that even I want to say things with as much confidence, but I am hesitant, because there are these questions in my mind, which seem to be absent in your observations, so I presume there is perhaps a clarity in your thinking, especially in so far as the deducing generalizations from a sample survey goes, so please help me with my questions, for I clearly do not know? Please allow me present my questions again. Can opinions of 215 people represent a city whose population 18,000,000 2007? If yes, then how, what are the precedents, where can we find evidence of such a practice? If no, then can we expect some sort of an explanation from you on the list? Furthermore, please allow me to quote from the summary of the report- The majority of the respondents condemned suicide bombing and disagreed with the notion that Islam or any other religion supports it. Belonging to the Sunni Muslim sect and strong adherence to religion predicted support for suicide bombing. The majority believed suicide bombing to be a result of religious fundamentalism. Opinion was divided as to whether suicide bombers have an underlying psychiatric illness. Further studies with larger sample sizes are needed to determine the attitudes and perceptions of the Pakistani population regarding this important issue. (You may access this report here- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18664233) The summary of the report seems to saying things, many things, which do not seem to be as clear as your assertion about that whole cosmopolitanism and tendency to commit suicide while bombing seems to be. The report is also saying- 1. Opinion was divided as to whether suicide bombers have an underlying psychiatric illness. This means that those 215 people also think that these bombers are perhaps mentally deranged. That bombers are mad. Can we read this as Muslims think that suicide bombers are mentally deranged? I do not know whether we can and I am equally grappling with questions as to why not? What do you feel about this, Rahul. should we allow this opinion to represent the whole of karachi or should we ignore it? If we allow it represent the whole of Karachi, then please tell me why? If not then please explain? 2. Further studies with larger sample sizes are needed to determine the attitudes and perceptions of the Pakistani population regarding this important issue. What do you think about this Rahul? Should they increase the sample size from the current 215 to 250 may be or perhaps 600 or may be 1000000 or reduce it to 166 or just one? or should they just leave it at this? How many people- in you opinion, your considered, thoughtful opinion Rahul, should, and I am deliberately using a normative 'should', be interviewed, before we can say with confidence that their opinions represent the opinions of an entire CITY. A cosmopolitan city. 3. The majority believed suicide bombing to be a result of religious fundamentalism. These people, these 215 people seem so ignorant that they did not bring in cosmopolitanism, because you seem to be so clear that cosmopolitanism = less suicide bombings. These people are saying something else. religion plus fundamentalism is equal to suicide bombings. What do we do now? How do you think we must bridge this conceptual divide Rahul? I hope you shall pay some attention in clarifying my confusions regarding your confidence in asserting that 215 people of city, a cosmo city, can represent the entire agglomerations of 18,000,000 2007 which makes this city. If for a moment we consider this representation was not valid and you did not know that only 215 people were interviewed then, then could I suggest you to please explain it to us, that opinions of how many people should qualify as a valid representative opinion of a city. A Cosmo City!! Warm regards Taha On 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Dear Yousuf, > > Have you come across this survey published in a Pakistani newspaper? > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > "Fifteen percent of participants in the Karachi-based study supported > > suicide bombing and said that Islam and other religions supported it." > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all those surveyed in Karachi believed that > > suicide bombing was acceptable in Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most cosmopolitan of all Pak cities. > > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so can you comment if I am wrong > > in my assumption that there is probably no other place in Pakistan that can > > be expected to have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions polled. > > Do you think this is a significant difference? How do you plan to bridge > > this divide? > > > > Thanks > > Rahul From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 03:10:31 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:40:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <940198.5633.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <840082.41245.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf, "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an equal number of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be eradicated from the face of the earth." I agree. "But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror possible by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt." I agree again about the first part.I am not advocating war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt should not be blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD flourish and carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip flops on the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other statements related to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere they are in curbing LET-the so called non-state actors flourishing with the support of the establishment. "If someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, or do you kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict you. That's the choice we have to make." Thats what I asked you in the earlier mail.Contrary to anything that I can see,lets assume that the person does want to be "treated".How do you plan to "treat that person"? Are you ready to accept the inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians while the "treatment" is going on? I do not have any reason to believe that majority of Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As I have written earlier,even if that were the case,that would not solve anything till Pak establishment keeps supporting LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in the way that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see what it has done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for the money it receives from the US.It will never completely eradicate Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor people in NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand and Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other hand,while all the time the Pak army is receiving more funds from the US. Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of propagating international terrorism will not end unless and until there is an existential threat to the army.Its just too profitable a business for them. I will reiterate,I am not batting for the warmongers.But the peaceniks should at least frame the debate realistically.Just ignoring the realities and insisting on friendship would not stop terror attacks and push us closer towards war. Regards Rahul --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , "Peace Initiative" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > Dear Rahul > The result of the survey you mentioned must be true - I > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a survey in India, > an equal number of people will say Islam and Muslims need to > be eradicated from the face of the earth. Same result may > come up in America or elsewhere. People are not born with > those answers for the surveys - they are brainwashed. > > One of the delegates that arrived from Pakistan early this > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, but he won't > have become a terrorist if there was a school in his > village". I think that says a lot about the situation > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate this because for us > they are an enemy - "to hell with them if they > don't have schools in their village". > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror possible > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt. Was the > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda by crushing > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the situation become worse > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural complexities of our > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were interviewed in the > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. The only image > that their education system has given them of India is that > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will only strengthen > that image for them (and for us about them). But I agree > that just a people-to-people contact is not the only > effective solution - but it can probably help in improving > the results of those surveys in each other's favour. If > someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, or do you > kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict you. > That's the choice we have to make. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" > , "Peace Initiative" > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > editor at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 PM > > Dear Yousuf, > > Have you come across this survey published in a > Pakistani > > newspaper? > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > "Fifteen percent of participants in the > Karachi-based > > study supported suicide bombing and said that Islam > and > > other religions supported it." > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all those surveyed > in > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing was acceptable > in > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most > cosmopolitan of > > all Pak cities. > > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so can you > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption that there is > > probably no other place in Pakistan that can be > expected to > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions > polled. > > Do you think this is a significant difference? How do > you > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > Thanks > > Rahul > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and > reconciliation an > > illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Peace > Initiative" > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > Here is a letter I wrote in response to an HT > article > > > (copied at bottom): > > > ----- > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I am > wondering if > > this > > > is the same country which produced Gandhi, Kabir, > > Buddha and > > > such non-violent people. While you find the job > of the > > > “peaceniks” futile and a waste of time, I > found > > your > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a large number > of > > people on > > > both sides of the border are fed up with terror > and > > violence > > > and are anxious for a workable solution. But much > of > > your > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic attack on such > > people who > > > try to channelize their angst into productive and > > positive > > > use. You doubt the very intentions of the people > who > > > genuinely want peace. If you are proposing that > all > > efforts > > > of peace and reconciliation and the > people-to-people > > contact > > > between India and Pakistan be shut and replaced > simply > > by a > > > cold “co-existence”, how exactly do you > define > > this > > > co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing right now? > How > > can a > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties between > Indian > > and > > > Pakistani activists do not serve any purpose, but > I > > found > > > your statement that there are actually no > > commonalities > > > between the culture of India and Pakistan rather > > juvenile. > > > If India and Pakistan should be hostile to each > other > > > because they are culturally dissimilar, then we > should > > have > > > a million more partitions within India due to our > > cultural > > > differences. > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace activists of the two > > countries > > > have remained less effective so far because their > > reach has > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or Lahore only. > If > > they > > > reached smaller and remote places such as > Gorakhpur, > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and meet the > > ordinary > > > people, they’ll probably be able to understand > each > > other > > > better and realize that not everyone in these > > countries > > > wants war. When you say that there is “an > > irreparable > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge it are both > > unrealistic > > > and impossible”, I think the divide has been > created > > by > > > the governments and writers like you. The > ordinary > > people of > > > the two countries are the only ones who can > bridge > > this > > > divide, if you stop writing such nonsense. > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > New Delhi > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in India and Pakistan > who > > will > > > continue to strive for peace, dialogue and > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > We’re not all in it together > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > With tension between India and Pakistan > escalating, > > the > > > self-appointed ambassadors of peace have their > hands > > full. > > > Irrespective of the inappropriateness of > marketing > > peace at > > > a time when India has yet to come to terms with > 26/11, > > > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. Last week > a > > > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar with a > banner > > of > > > friendship; another is invading Delhi to talk > peace. > > Worse > > > still, their Indian counterparts held meetings to > > ensure > > > that their peace mission was a roaring success, > apart > > from > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or they us, they > are > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make endless > > comparisons > > > and list commonalities in food, dress, language, > > culture and > > > of course history. Politically correct, but > untrue > > because > > > there are distinct differences in the respective > > cuisines, > > > languages, festivals, customs, rituals and > religion. > > What > > > are common are the scars of Partition and a > > blood-stained > > > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend do not > exist as > > they > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while pining for > a > > no-visa > > > regime. It’s all very well to savour kebabs and > > hosting > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface and there > is > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have little chance of > > healing. > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and positions > harden. > > Then it > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather than ‘you and > us’. > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali Zardari tried to > > charm > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying that there is > a > > little > > > bit of India in every Pakistani and vice versa, > the > > truth is > > > that there is no love lost between the two. It is > rare > > to > > > find an Indian warming up to a Pakistani. However > hard > > we > > > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual suspicion > > sealed by > > > history. There is an irreparable divide and > attempts > > to > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and impossible. > > Marching to > > > the Wagah border to light candles for peace is at > best > > a > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible results. In > other > > words, a > > > waste of time. Consequently when an enraged > Pranab > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, sheds > diplomacy > > and > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it is time to shed > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, and abandon > the > > song and > > > dance about friendship. We need to be brutally > honest > > and > > > change tack from a focus on peace to > co-existence. It > > is > > > compulsions of geography and not bonds of history > that > > force > > > us to live side by side. Replacing peace with > > co-existence > > > will also help end the “like-mindedness” > theory > > and > > > reveal common meeting points in place of > non-workable > > > alliances. It will end pretensions about > camaraderie > > and > > > help us face reality: however hard, bitter and > brutal > > it may > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will be much > easier > > to > > > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering on > aggression. > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and there could be a > road > > ahead; > > > abandon the thought of jointly treading the path > and > > > solutions could be on the anvil. But break bread > > together > > > and it is a non- starter because despite the > kebabs > > and > > > candles, terror attacks and a volatile Indo-Pak > border > > are > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > The only casualty here would be the peaceniks. > Not > > only > > > will they be out of work but will be unwilling to > > accept > > > that what they have been marketing all these > years is > > an > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the > > subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 25 05:34:37 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:04:37 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Radio Taliban: Pakistan Message-ID: <3FDE5082-A395-4134-918A-1A0CF777EBBF@earthlink.net> A different web 2.0 Paul http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/asia/25swat.html?_r=1&hp PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Every night around 8 o’clock, the terrified residents of Swat, a lush and picturesque valley a hundred miles from three of Pakistan’s most important cities, crowd around their radios. They know that failure to listen and learn might lead to a lashing — or a beheading. Hundreds gathered Jan. 11 in Swat to watch drug dealers punished. The Taliban also have made it a crime to shave a beard. Using a portable radio transmitter, a local Taliban leader, Shah Doran, on most nights outlines newly proscribed “un-Islamic” activities in Swat, like selling DVDs, watching cable television, singing and dancing, criticizing the Taliban, shaving beards and allowing girls to attend school. He also reveals names of people the Taliban have killed for violating their decrees — and those they plan to kill. “They control everything through the radio,” said one Swat resident, who declined to give his name for fear the Taliban might kill him. “Everyone waits for the broadcast.” International attention remains fixed on the Taliban’s hold on Pakistan’s semiautonomous tribal areas, from where they launch attacks on American forces in Afghanistan. But for Pakistan, the loss of the Swat Valley could prove just as devastating. Unlike the fringe tribal areas, Swat, a Delaware-size chunk of territory with 1.3 million residents and a rich cultural history, is part of Pakistan proper, within reach of Peshawar, Rawalpindi and Islamabad, the capital. After more than a year of fighting, virtually all of it is now under Taliban control, marking the militants’ farthest advance eastward into Pakistan’s so-called settled areas, residents and government officials from the region say. With the increasing consolidation of their power, the Taliban have taken a sizable bite out of the nation. And they are enforcing a strict interpretation of Islam with cruelty, bringing public beheadings, assassinations, social and cultural repression and persecution of women to what was once an independent, relatively secular region, dotted with ski resorts and fruit orchards and known for its dancing girls. Last year, 70 police officers were beheaded, shot or otherwise slain in Swat, and 150 wounded, said Malik Naveed Khan, the police inspector general for the North-West Frontier Province. The police have become so afraid that many officers have put advertisements in newspapers renouncing their jobs so the Taliban will not kill them. One who stayed on the job was Farooq Khan, a midlevel officer in Mingora, the valley’s largest city, where decapitated bodies of policemen and other victims routinely surface. Last month, he was shopping there when two men on a motorcycle sprayed him with gunfire, killing him in broad daylight. “He always said, ‘I have to stay here and defend our home,’ ” recalled his brother, Wajid Ali Khan, a Swat native and the province’s minister for environment, as he passed around a cellphone with Farooq’s picture. In the view of analysts, the growing nightmare in Swat is a capsule of the country’s problems: an ineffectual and unresponsive civilian government, coupled with military and security forces that, in the view of furious residents, have willingly allowed the militants to spread terror deep into Pakistan. The crisis has become a critical test for the government of the civilian president, Asif Ali Zardari, and for a security apparatus whose loyalties, many Pakistanis say, remain in question. Seeking to deflect blame, Mr. Zardari’s government recently criticized “earlier halfhearted attempts at rooting out extremists from the area” and vowed to fight militants “who are ruthlessly murdering and maiming our citizens.” But as pressure grows, he has also said in recent days that the government would be willing to talk with militants who accept its authority. Such negotiations would carry serious risks: security officials say a brief peace deal in Swat last spring was a spectacular failure that allowed militants to tighten their hold and take revenge on people who had supported the military. Without more forceful and concerted action by the government, some warn, the Taliban threat in Pakistan is bound to spread. “The crux of the problem is the government appears divided about what to do,” said Mahmood Shah, a retired Pakistani Army brigadier who until 2006 was in charge of security in the western tribal areas. “This disconnect among the political leadership has emboldened the militants.” From 2,000 to 4,000 Taliban fighters now roam the Swat Valley, according to interviews with a half-dozen senior Pakistani government, military and political officials involved in the fight. By contrast, the Pakistani military has four brigades with 12,000 to 15,000 men in Swat, officials say. The Taliban are thought to be responsible for the killing of a popular Swat Valley dancing girl, Shabana, whose body, above, was found Jan. 2 in Mingora. The Taliban have made gains in the strategic region, in part by meting out harsh punishments. But the soldiers largely stay inside their camps, unwilling to patrol or exert any large presence that might provoke — or discourage — the militants, Swat residents and political leaders say. The military also has not raided a small village that locals say is widely known as the Taliban’s headquarters in Swat. Nor have troops destroyed mobile radio transmitters mounted on motorcycles or pickup trucks that Shah Doran and the leader of the Taliban in Swat, Maulana Fazlullah, have expertly used to terrify residents. Being named in one of the nightly broadcasts often leaves just two options: fleeing Swat, or turning up headless and dumped in a village square. When the army does act, its near-total lack of preparedness to fight a counterinsurgency reveals itself. Its usual tactic is to lob artillery shells into a general area, and the results have seemed to hurt civilians more than the militants, residents say. In some parts of Pakistan, civilian militias have risen to fight the Taliban. But in Swat, the Taliban’s gains amid a large army presence has convinced many that the military must be conspiring with the Taliban. “It’s very mysterious how they get so much weapons and support,” while nearby districts are comparatively calm, said Muzaffar ul-Mulk Khan, a member of Parliament from Swat, who said his home near Mingora was recently destroyed by the Taliban. “We are bewildered by the military. They patrol only in Mingora. In the rest of Swat they sit in their bases. And the militants can kill at will anywhere in Mingora,” he said. “Nothing is being done by the government," Mr. Khan added. Accusations that the military lacks the will to fight in Swat are “very unfair and unjustified,” said Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, the chief military spokesman, who said 180 army soldiers and officers had been killed in Swat in the past 14 months. “They do reach out, and they do patrol,” he said. Military officials also say they are trying to step up activity in Swat. General Abbas said the military did not have the means to block Taliban radio transmissions across such a wide area, but he disputed the view that Mingora had fallen to the militants. “Just because they come out at night and throw down four or five bodies in the square does not mean that militants control anything,” he said. Few officials would dispute that one of the Pakistani military’s biggest mistakes in Swat was its failure to protect Pir Samiullah, a local leader whose 500 followers fought the Taliban in the village of Mandal Dag. After the Taliban killed him in a firefight last month, the militants demanded that his followers reveal his gravesite — and then started beheading people until they got the information, one Mandal Dag villager said. “They dug him up and hung his body in the square,” the villager said, and then they took the body to a secret location. The desecration was intended to show what would happen to anyone who defied the Taliban’s rule, but it also made painfully clear to Swat residents that the Pakistani government could not be trusted to defend those who rose up against the militants. “He should have been given more protection,” said one Pakistani security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the delicacy of the subject. “He should have been made a symbol of resistance.” Gruesome displays like the defilement of Pir Samiullah’s remains are an effective tactic for the Taliban, who have shown cruel efficiency in following through on their threats. Recently, Shah Doran broadcast word that the Taliban intended to kill a police officer who he said had killed three people. “We have sent people, and tomorrow you will have good news,” he said on his nightly broadcast, according to a resident of Matta, a Taliban stronghold. The next day the decapitated body of the policeman was found in a nearby village. Even in Mingora, a town grown hardened to violence, residents were shocked early this month to find the bullet-ridden body of one of the city’s most famous dancing girls splayed on the main square. Known as Shabana, the woman was visited at night by a group of men who claimed to want to hire her for a party. They shot her to death and dragged her body more than a quarter-mile to the central square, leaving it as a warning for anyone who would flout Taliban decrees. The leader of the militants in Swat, Maulana Fazlullah, gained prominence from making radio broadcasts and running an Islamic school, becoming popular among otherwise isolated homemakers and inspiring them to sell their jewelry to finance his operation. He also drew support from his marriage to the daughter of Sufi Mohammed, a powerful religious leader in Swat until 2001 who later disowned his son-in-law. Even though Swat does not border Afghanistan or any of Pakistan’s seven lawless federal tribal areas, Maulana Fazlullah eventually allied with Taliban militants who dominate regions along the Afghan frontier. His fighters now roam the valley with sniper rifles, Kalashnikovs, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, mortar tubes and, according to some officials, night-vision goggles and flak vests. His latest tactic is a ban on girls’ attending school in Swat, which will be tested in February when private schools are scheduled to reopen after winter recess. The Taliban have already destroyed 169 girls’ schools in Swat, government officials say, and they expect most private schools to stay closed rather than risk retaliation. “The local population is totally fed up, and if they had the chance they would lynch each and every Talib,” said Mr. Naveed Khan, the police official. “But the Taliban are so cruel and violent, no one will oppose them. If this is not stopped, it will spill into other areas of Pakistan.” From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 25 05:49:07 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:19:07 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Gaza War - An Analysis from The Israeli Left Message-ID: <0CD41EB6-571A-4F75-9962-D3BA3F31FE71@earthlink.net> I just thought I'd forward this! Paul Gaza War Ended in Utter Failure for Israel By Gideon Levy 22/01/2009 Ha'aretz http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057670.html On the morrow of the return of the last Israeli soldier from Gaza, we can determine with certainty that they had all gone out there in vain. This war ended in utter failure for Israel. This goes beyond the profound moral failure, which is a grave matter in itself, but pertains to its inability to reach its stated goals. In other words, the grief is not complemented by failure. We have gained nothing in this war save hundreds of graves, some of them very small, thousands of maimed people, much destruction and the besmirching of Israel's image. What seemed like a predestined loss to only a handful of people at the onset of the war will gradually emerge as such to many others, once the victorious trumpeting subsides. The initial objective of the war was to put an end to the firing of Qassam rockets. This did not cease until the war's last day. It was only achieved after a cease- fire had already been arranged. Defense officials estimate that Hamas still has 1,000 rockets. The war's second objective, the prevention of smuggling, was not met either. The head of the Shin Bet security service has estimated that smuggling will be renewed within two months. Most of the smuggling that is going on is meant to provide food for a population under siege, and not to obtain weapons. But even if we accept the scare campaign concerning the smuggling with its exaggerations, this war has served to prove that only poor quality, rudimentary weapons passed through the smuggling tunnels connecting the Gaza Strip to Egypt. Israel's ability to achieve its third objective is also dubious. Deterrence, my foot. The deterrence we supposedly achieved in the Second Lebanon War has not had the slightest effect on Hamas, and the one supposedly achieved now isn't working any better: The sporadic firing of rockets from the Gaza Strip has continued over the past few days. The fourth objective, which remained undeclared, was not met either. The IDF has not restored its capability. It couldn't have, not in a quasi-war against a miserable and poorly-equipped organization relying on makeshift weapons, whose combatants barely put up a fight. The heroic descriptions and victory poems written abut the "military triumph" will not serve to change reality. The pilots were flying on training missions and the ground forces were engaged in exercises that involved joining up and firing weapons. The describing of the operation as a "military achievement" by the various generals and analysts who offered their take on the operation is plain ridiculous. We have not weakened Hamas. The vast majority of its combatants were not harmed and popular support for the organization has in fact increased. Their war has intensified the ethos of resistance and determined endurance. A country which has nursed an entire generation on the ethos of a few versus should know to appreciate that by now. There was no doubt as to who was David and who was Goliath in this war. The population in Gaza, which has sustained such a severe blow, will not become more moderate now. On the contrary, the national sentiment will now turn more than before against the party which inflicted that blow - the State of Israel. Just as public opinion leans to the right in Israel after each attack against us, so it will in Gaza following the mega-attack that we carried out against them. If anyone was weakened because of this war, it was Fatah, whose fleeing from Gaza and its abandonment have now been given special significance. The succession of failures in this war needs to include, of course, the failure of the siege policy. For a while, we have already come to realize that is ineffective. The world boycotted, Israel besieged and Hamas ruled (and is still ruling). But this war's balance, as far as Israel is concerned, does not end with the absence of any achievement. It has placed a heavy toll on us, which will continue to burden us for some time. When it comes to assessing Israel's international situation, we must not allow ourselves to be fooled by the support parade by Europe's leaders, who came in for a photo-op with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Israel's actions have dealt a serious blow to public support for the state. While this does not always translate itself into an immediate diplomatic situation, the shockwaves will arrive one day. The whole world saw the images. They shocked every human being who saw them, even if they left most Israelis cold. The conclusion is that Israel is a violent and dangerous country, devoid of all restraints and blatantly ignoring the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council, while not giving a hoot about international law. The investigations are on their way. Graver still is the damage this will visit upon our moral spine. It will come from difficult questions about what the IDF did in Gaza, which will occur despite the blurring effect of recruited media. So what was achieved, after all? As a war waged to satisfy considerations of internal politics, the operation has succeeded beyond all expectations. Likud Chair Benjamin Netanyahu is getting stronger in the polls. And why? Because we could not get enough of the war. [Gideon Levy is an Israeli journalist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, where he is also an editorial board member. He is a prominent left-wing commentator. He formerly served as spokesman for Shimon Peres from 1978 and 1982.] From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 10:36:32 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:06:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <840082.41245.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <375473.44338.qm@web51408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to be killed while Pakistan is "treated". But there is always a long term and short term strategy required. I as a citizen don't have the resources to get involved in the short term and "surgical" treatment (which some may call war). I can only think of my involvement in the long-term and slow healing process which is the people-to-people contact. If the people who are preaching terror against the so-called kafirs (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real opportunity to meet such people and sit down and talk, they may realize that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change their approach. This is the only way situations are controlled in every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree everyone needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi survey was a reflection of just a few hundred people in a population of lakhs. Yousuf --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , "Peace Initiative" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > Dear Yousuf, > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an equal number > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be eradicated > from the face of the earth." > I agree. > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror > possible > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt." > I agree again about the first part.I am not advocating > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt should not be > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD flourish and > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip flops on > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other statements related > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere they are in > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors flourishing with > the support of the establishment. > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, > or do you kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict > you. That's the choice we have to make." > Thats what I asked you in the earlier mail.Contrary to > anything that I can see,lets assume that the person does > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > "treat that person"? Are you ready to accept the > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians while the > "treatment" is going on? > I do not have any reason to believe that majority of > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As I have > written earlier,even if that were the case,that would not > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps supporting > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in the way > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see what it has > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for the money > it receives from the US.It will never completely eradicate > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor people in > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand and > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other hand,while all > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds from the US. > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > propagating international terrorism will not end unless and > until there is an existential threat to the army.Its just > too profitable a business for them. > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the warmongers.But > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and insisting on > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push us closer > towards war. > > Regards > Rahul > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" > , "Peace Initiative" > , > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > Dear Rahul > > The result of the survey you mentioned must be true - > I > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a survey in > India, > > an equal number of people will say Islam and Muslims > need to > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. Same result > may > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are not born > with > > those answers for the surveys - they are brainwashed. > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from Pakistan early > this > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, but he > won't > > have become a terrorist if there was a school in his > > village". I think that says a lot about the > situation > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate this because > for us > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them if they > > don't have schools in their village". > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror > possible > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt. Was > the > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda by > crushing > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the situation become > worse > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural complexities > of our > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were interviewed > in the > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. The only > image > > that their education system has given them of India is > that > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will only > strengthen > > that image for them (and for us about them). But I > agree > > that just a people-to-people contact is not the only > > effective solution - but it can probably help in > improving > > the results of those surveys in each other's > favour. If > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, or > do you > > kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict you. > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > wrote: > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Peace > Initiative" > > , > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 PM > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > Have you come across this survey published in a > > Pakistani > > > newspaper? > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > "Fifteen percent of participants in the > > Karachi-based > > > study supported suicide bombing and said that > Islam > > and > > > other religions supported it." > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all those > surveyed > > in > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing was > acceptable > > in > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most > > cosmopolitan of > > > all Pak cities. > > > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so can > you > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption that there > is > > > probably no other place in Pakistan that can be > > expected to > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions > > polled. > > > Do you think this is a significant difference? > How do > > you > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Rahul > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation an > > > illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in response to an > HT > > article > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I am > > wondering if > > > this > > > > is the same country which produced Gandhi, > Kabir, > > > Buddha and > > > > such non-violent people. While you find the > job > > of the > > > > “peaceniks” futile and a waste of time, > I > > found > > > your > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a large > number > > of > > > people on > > > > both sides of the border are fed up with > terror > > and > > > violence > > > > and are anxious for a workable solution. But > much > > of > > > your > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic attack on > such > > > people who > > > > try to channelize their angst into > productive and > > > positive > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions of the > people > > who > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are proposing > that > > all > > > efforts > > > > of peace and reconciliation and the > > people-to-people > > > contact > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut and > replaced > > simply > > > by a > > > > cold “co-existence”, how exactly do you > > define > > > this > > > > co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing right > now? > > How > > > can a > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties > between > > Indian > > > and > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve any > purpose, but > > I > > > found > > > > your statement that there are actually no > > > commonalities > > > > between the culture of India and Pakistan > rather > > > juvenile. > > > > If India and Pakistan should be hostile to > each > > other > > > > because they are culturally dissimilar, then > we > > should > > > have > > > > a million more partitions within India due > to our > > > cultural > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace activists of > the two > > > countries > > > > have remained less effective so far because > their > > > reach has > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or Lahore > only. > > If > > > they > > > > reached smaller and remote places such as > > Gorakhpur, > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and meet > the > > > ordinary > > > > people, they’ll probably be able to > understand > > each > > > other > > > > better and realize that not everyone in > these > > > countries > > > > wants war. When you say that there is “an > > > irreparable > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge it are > both > > > unrealistic > > > > and impossible”, I think the divide has > been > > created > > > by > > > > the governments and writers like you. The > > ordinary > > > people of > > > > the two countries are the only ones who can > > bridge > > > this > > > > divide, if you stop writing such nonsense. > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in India and > Pakistan > > who > > > will > > > > continue to strive for peace, dialogue and > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > We’re not all in it together > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > With tension between India and Pakistan > > escalating, > > > the > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of peace have > their > > hands > > > full. > > > > Irrespective of the inappropriateness of > > marketing > > > peace at > > > > a time when India has yet to come to terms > with > > 26/11, > > > > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. Last > week > > a > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar with > a > > banner > > > of > > > > friendship; another is invading Delhi to > talk > > peace. > > > Worse > > > > still, their Indian counterparts held > meetings to > > > ensure > > > > that their peace mission was a roaring > success, > > apart > > > from > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or they us, > they > > are > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make > endless > > > comparisons > > > > and list commonalities in food, dress, > language, > > > culture and > > > > of course history. Politically correct, but > > untrue > > > because > > > > there are distinct differences in the > respective > > > cuisines, > > > > languages, festivals, customs, rituals and > > religion. > > > What > > > > are common are the scars of Partition and a > > > blood-stained > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend do not > > exist as > > > they > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while > pining for > > a > > > no-visa > > > > regime. It’s all very well to savour > kebabs and > > > hosting > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface and > there > > is > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have little chance > of > > > healing. > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and positions > > harden. > > > Then it > > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather than ‘you > and > > us’. > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali Zardari > tried to > > > charm > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying that > there is > > a > > > little > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani and vice > versa, > > the > > > truth is > > > > that there is no love lost between the two. > It is > > rare > > > to > > > > find an Indian warming up to a Pakistani. > However > > hard > > > we > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual > suspicion > > > sealed by > > > > history. There is an irreparable divide and > > attempts > > > to > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > impossible. > > > Marching to > > > > the Wagah border to light candles for peace > is at > > best > > > a > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible results. > In > > other > > > words, a > > > > waste of time. Consequently when an enraged > > Pranab > > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, sheds > > diplomacy > > > and > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it is time to > shed > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, and > abandon > > the > > > song and > > > > dance about friendship. We need to be > brutally > > honest > > > and > > > > change tack from a focus on peace to > > co-existence. It > > > is > > > > compulsions of geography and not bonds of > history > > that > > > force > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing peace > with > > > co-existence > > > > will also help end the “like-mindedness” > > theory > > > and > > > > reveal common meeting points in place of > > non-workable > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions about > > camaraderie > > > and > > > > help us face reality: however hard, bitter > and > > brutal > > > it may > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will be > much > > easier > > > to > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering on > > aggression. > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and there could be > a > > road > > > ahead; > > > > abandon the thought of jointly treading the > path > > and > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. But break > bread > > > together > > > > and it is a non- starter because despite the > > kebabs > > > and > > > > candles, terror attacks and a volatile > Indo-Pak > > border > > > are > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be the > peaceniks. > > Not > > > only > > > > will they be out of work but will be > unwilling to > > > accept > > > > that what they have been marketing all these > > years is > > > an > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > > the > > > subject > > > > header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 12:03:30 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:33:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? Message-ID: <963372.7011.qm@web53609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf, I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please go through this link. http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland." I think even Taha can do the math. Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a precedent on your request,will you please take any further statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? Thank you Rahul --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > Dear Rahul > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to be > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But there is > always a long term and short term strategy required. I as a > citizen don't have the resources to get involved in the > short term and "surgical" treatment (which some > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in the > long-term and slow healing process which is the > people-to-people contact. If the people who are preaching > terror against the so-called kafirs > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real opportunity to > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may realize > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change their > approach. This is the only way situations are controlled in > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree everyone > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi survey was > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a population of > lakhs. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" > , "Peace Initiative" > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an equal > number > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > eradicated > > from the face of the earth." > > I agree. > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > terror > > possible > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > govt." > > I agree again about the first part.I am not advocating > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt should not > be > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD flourish > and > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > flops on > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other statements > related > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere they are > in > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors flourishing > with > > the support of the establishment. > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat that > person, > > or do you kill him so that his disease doesn't > afflict > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier mail.Contrary to > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the person > does > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to accept > the > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians while > the > > "treatment" is going on? > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority of > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As I > have > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that would > not > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps supporting > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in the > way > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see what > it has > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for the > money > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > eradicate > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > people in > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand and > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > hand,while all > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds from the > US. > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > propagating international terrorism will not end > unless and > > until there is an existential threat to the army.Its > just > > too profitable a business for them. > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > warmongers.But > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > insisting on > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push us > closer > > towards war. > > > > Regards > > Rahul > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Peace > Initiative" > > , > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > Dear Rahul > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must be > true - > > I > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > survey in > > India, > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > Muslims > > need to > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. Same > result > > may > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are not > born > > with > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > brainwashed. > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from Pakistan > early > > this > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, but > he > > won't > > > have become a terrorist if there was a school in > his > > > village". I think that says a lot about the > > situation > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate this > because > > for us > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them if > they > > > don't have schools in their village". > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > terror > > possible > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt. > Was > > the > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda by > > crushing > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the situation > become > > worse > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > complexities > > of our > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > interviewed > > in the > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. The > only > > image > > > that their education system has given them of > India is > > that > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will only > > strengthen > > > that image for them (and for us about them). But > I > > agree > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not the > only > > > effective solution - but it can probably help in > > improving > > > the results of those surveys in each other's > > favour. If > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, > or > > do you > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict > you. > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > , > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 PM > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > Have you come across this survey published > in a > > > Pakistani > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants in the > > > Karachi-based > > > > study supported suicide bombing and said > that > > Islam > > > and > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > those > > surveyed > > > in > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing was > > acceptable > > > in > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so > can > > you > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption that > there > > is > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan that can > be > > > expected to > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > questions > > > polled. > > > > Do you think this is a significant > difference? > > How do > > > you > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation an > > > > illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in response to > an > > HT > > > article > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I > am > > > wondering if > > > > this > > > > > is the same country which produced > Gandhi, > > Kabir, > > > > Buddha and > > > > > such non-violent people. While you find > the > > job > > > of the > > > > > “peaceniks” futile and a waste of > time, > > I > > > found > > > > your > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > large > > number > > > of > > > > people on > > > > > both sides of the border are fed up > with > > terror > > > and > > > > violence > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > solution. But > > much > > > of > > > > your > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > attack on > > such > > > > people who > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > productive and > > > > positive > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions of > the > > people > > > who > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > proposing > > that > > > all > > > > efforts > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and the > > > people-to-people > > > > contact > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut and > > replaced > > > simply > > > > by a > > > > > cold “co-existence”, how exactly do > you > > > define > > > > this > > > > > co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing > right > > now? > > > How > > > > can a > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties > > between > > > Indian > > > > and > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve any > > purpose, but > > > I > > > > found > > > > > your statement that there are actually > no > > > > commonalities > > > > > between the culture of India and > Pakistan > > rather > > > > juvenile. > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be hostile > to > > each > > > other > > > > > because they are culturally dissimilar, > then > > we > > > should > > > > have > > > > > a million more partitions within India > due > > to our > > > > cultural > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace activists > of > > the two > > > > countries > > > > > have remained less effective so far > because > > their > > > > reach has > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > Lahore > > only. > > > If > > > > they > > > > > reached smaller and remote places such > as > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and > meet > > the > > > > ordinary > > > > > people, they’ll probably be able to > > understand > > > each > > > > other > > > > > better and realize that not everyone in > > these > > > > countries > > > > > wants war. When you say that there is > “an > > > > irreparable > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge it > are > > both > > > > unrealistic > > > > > and impossible”, I think the divide > has > > been > > > created > > > > by > > > > > the governments and writers like you. > The > > > ordinary > > > > people of > > > > > the two countries are the only ones who > can > > > bridge > > > > this > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in India and > > Pakistan > > > who > > > > will > > > > > continue to strive for peace, dialogue > and > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We’re not all in it together > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and Pakistan > > > escalating, > > > > the > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of peace > have > > their > > > hands > > > > full. > > > > > Irrespective of the inappropriateness > of > > > marketing > > > > peace at > > > > > a time when India has yet to come to > terms > > with > > > 26/11, > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. > Last > > week > > > a > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar > with > > a > > > banner > > > > of > > > > > friendship; another is invading Delhi > to > > talk > > > peace. > > > > Worse > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts held > > meetings to > > > > ensure > > > > > that their peace mission was a roaring > > success, > > > apart > > > > from > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or > they us, > > they > > > are > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make > > endless > > > > comparisons > > > > > and list commonalities in food, dress, > > language, > > > > culture and > > > > > of course history. Politically correct, > but > > > untrue > > > > because > > > > > there are distinct differences in the > > respective > > > > cuisines, > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, rituals > and > > > religion. > > > > What > > > > > are common are the scars of Partition > and a > > > > blood-stained > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend > do not > > > exist as > > > > they > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while > > pining for > > > a > > > > no-visa > > > > > regime. It’s all very well to savour > > kebabs and > > > > hosting > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface > and > > there > > > is > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have little > chance > > of > > > > healing. > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > positions > > > harden. > > > > Then it > > > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather than > ‘you > > and > > > us’. > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > Zardari > > tried to > > > > charm > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying that > > there is > > > a > > > > little > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani and > vice > > versa, > > > the > > > > truth is > > > > > that there is no love lost between the > two. > > It is > > > rare > > > > to > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > Pakistani. > > However > > > hard > > > > we > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual > > suspicion > > > > sealed by > > > > > history. There is an irreparable divide > and > > > attempts > > > > to > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > impossible. > > > > Marching to > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles for > peace > > is at > > > best > > > > a > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > results. > > In > > > other > > > > words, a > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when an > enraged > > > Pranab > > > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, > sheds > > > diplomacy > > > > and > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it is > time to > > shed > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, and > > abandon > > > the > > > > song and > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to be > > brutally > > > honest > > > > and > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace to > > > co-existence. It > > > > is > > > > > compulsions of geography and not bonds > of > > history > > > that > > > > force > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > peace > > with > > > > co-existence > > > > > will also help end the > “like-mindedness” > > > theory > > > > and > > > > > reveal common meeting points in place > of > > > non-workable > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > about > > > camaraderie > > > > and > > > > > help us face reality: however hard, > bitter > > and > > > brutal > > > > it may > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will > be > > much > > > easier > > > > to > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering > on > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and there > could be > > a > > > road > > > > ahead; > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly treading > the > > path > > > and > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. But > break > > bread > > > > together > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > despite the > > > kebabs > > > > and > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a volatile > > Indo-Pak > > > border > > > > are > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be the > > peaceniks. > > > Not > > > > only > > > > > will they be out of work but will be > > unwilling to > > > > accept > > > > > that what they have been marketing all > these > > > years is > > > > an > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and > > > the > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in > > > the > > > > subject > > > > > header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Jan 25 15:03:42 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:33:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <963372.7011.qm@web53609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <963372.7011.qm@web53609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901250133t471d676clba8e1e3577afd03d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rahul Thank you for 'replying' back. I really do not know how to respond to this mail. For there seems to be nothing to respond. I mean I can understand that in e-mail exchanges on a public list, when one tries to engage another in order access the other person's point of view, the easiest and laziest way to let go of this sort of an engagement which demands a rigorous process of thinking is to blame the individual. Rhetorical devises such as hiding behind ones 'sanity' and 'interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and everybody's time' are fine with me. I do not mind that at all. It only goes on to show that perhaps, I am talking to an insincere person. I am talking to a person who is perhaps getting insecure by my questions and shows his nervousness about the concepts being probed by vilifying me. Having said that I also think that I may be wrong here. It is up to you to interpret in whatever manner way you want to and make effort to dispel any misperception. >>Everybody should try to educate themselves first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.>> I do not think that there is anything wrong in getting educated anywhere. I think for as long we are alive we are learning. Hence please allow me restate what I said earlier. In your mail to Yousuf, there was a mention of a blog which quoted a news story about a report of a survey carried out by a professor and his students. The students interviewed 215 people of a city whose population is 180000002007. In your mail, it seemed to me, that you were extrapolating the opinions and attitudes of a sample population to the census population of a City. My only query to you is, why do you think this extrapolation is valid? and if you choose to answer then, please do not hide behind a cliched fallacy like argumentum ad populum, because it is boring. Please try to think of an explanation, a logical explanation, you if can. I am not asking to be educated on this, I expect a justification from you, if there is any. Because there was an observation on your part and I want to know why you are making such an observation. I do not think there is anything wrong in that at all. Further more, in the same survey, there was a mention that how people also think those who commit acts of suicide bombing are perhaps suffering from some sort of an psychiatric illness. I find this attitude of the sample population interesting. I am curious to know whether we will get the same result from a large sample size population too. Because this attitude in a sense disrupts the perception of 'pan-islamism'. Given the rainbow of opinions and attitudes which this survey throws up. I was quite surprised that you choose to point out a single result which could also be read as, 85% of respondents of a survey felt that Islam does not support suicide bombing at all. We all know what Chirchill said about statistics, that there are, "*lies*, damned *lies* and *statistics*". So I think that opinions in that survey were true in so far as the attitudes and opinions of 215 respondents is concerend but with how much of confidence can we stretch and make these opinions represent an entire city or a country, is something which seemed very vague and indeterminate to me. Regards Taha On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > Dear Yousuf, > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel good > exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its policy of cross border > terrorism,people to people contact would achieve diddly squat.National > narratives can be managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize > that other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that interacting with him > is a waste of bandwidth and everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be > educated about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics and > sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves first.Hand holding > should not be encouraged.Anyway, please go through this link. > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries were interviewed in > this survey conducted for the BBC World service by the international polling > firm GlobeScan together with the Program on International Policy Attitudes > at the University of Maryland." > I think even Taha can do the math. > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a precedent on your > request,will you please take any further statistics and sampling related > questions on my behalf? > > Thank you > Rahul > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > Dear Rahul > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to be > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But there is > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I as a > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved in the > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which some > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in the > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are preaching > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real opportunity to > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may realize > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change their > > approach. This is the only way situations are controlled in > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree everyone > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi survey was > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a population of > > lakhs. > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > wrote: > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Peace Initiative" > > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an equal > > number > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > eradicated > > > from the face of the earth." > > > I agree. > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > terror > > > possible > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > govt." > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not advocating > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt should not > > be > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD flourish > > and > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > flops on > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other statements > > related > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere they are > > in > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors flourishing > > with > > > the support of the establishment. > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > person, > > > or do you kill him so that his disease doesn't > > afflict > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier mail.Contrary to > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the person > > does > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to accept > > the > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians while > > the > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority of > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As I > > have > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that would > > not > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps supporting > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in the > > way > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see what > > it has > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for the > > money > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > eradicate > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > people in > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand and > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > hand,while all > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds from the > > US. > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > unless and > > > until there is an existential threat to the army.Its > > just > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > warmongers.But > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > insisting on > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push us > > closer > > > towards war. > > > > > > Regards > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > , > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must be > > true - > > > I > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > survey in > > > India, > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > Muslims > > > need to > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. Same > > result > > > may > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are not > > born > > > with > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from Pakistan > > early > > > this > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, but > > he > > > won't > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a school in > > his > > > > village". I think that says a lot about the > > > situation > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate this > > because > > > for us > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them if > > they > > > > don't have schools in their village". > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > terror > > > possible > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt. > > Was > > > the > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda by > > > crushing > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the situation > > become > > > worse > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > complexities > > > of our > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > interviewed > > > in the > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. The > > only > > > image > > > > that their education system has given them of > > India is > > > that > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will only > > > strengthen > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). But > > I > > > agree > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not the > > only > > > > effective solution - but it can probably help in > > > improving > > > > the results of those surveys in each other's > > > favour. If > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, > > or > > > do you > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict > > you. > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > , > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 PM > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > Have you come across this survey published > > in a > > > > Pakistani > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants in the > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and said > > that > > > Islam > > > > and > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > those > > > surveyed > > > > in > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing was > > > acceptable > > > > in > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so > > can > > > you > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption that > > there > > > is > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan that can > > be > > > > expected to > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > questions > > > > polled. > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > difference? > > > How do > > > > you > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in response to > > an > > > HT > > > > article > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I > > am > > > > wondering if > > > > > this > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > Gandhi, > > > Kabir, > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you find > > the > > > job > > > > of the > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste of > > time, > > > I > > > > found > > > > > your > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > large > > > number > > > > of > > > > > people on > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed up > > with > > > terror > > > > and > > > > > violence > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > solution. But > > > much > > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > attack on > > > such > > > > > people who > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > productive and > > > > > positive > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions of > > the > > > people > > > > who > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > proposing > > > that > > > > all > > > > > efforts > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and the > > > > people-to-people > > > > > contact > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut and > > > replaced > > > > simply > > > > > by a > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how exactly do > > you > > > > define > > > > > this > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we co-existing > > right > > > now? > > > > How > > > > > can a > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties > > > between > > > > Indian > > > > > and > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve any > > > purpose, but > > > > I > > > > > found > > > > > > your statement that there are actually > > no > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > Pakistan > > > rather > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be hostile > > to > > > each > > > > other > > > > > > because they are culturally dissimilar, > > then > > > we > > > > should > > > > > have > > > > > > a million more partitions within India > > due > > > to our > > > > > cultural > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace activists > > of > > > the two > > > > > countries > > > > > > have remained less effective so far > > because > > > their > > > > > reach has > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > Lahore > > > only. > > > > If > > > > > they > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places such > > as > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and > > meet > > > the > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able to > > > understand > > > > each > > > > > other > > > > > > better and realize that not everyone in > > > these > > > > > countries > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there is > > "an > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge it > > are > > > both > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > and impossible", I think the divide > > has > > > been > > > > created > > > > > by > > > > > > the governments and writers like you. > > The > > > > ordinary > > > > > people of > > > > > > the two countries are the only ones who > > can > > > > bridge > > > > > this > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in India and > > > Pakistan > > > > who > > > > > will > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, dialogue > > and > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and Pakistan > > > > escalating, > > > > > the > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of peace > > have > > > their > > > > hands > > > > > full. > > > > > > Irrespective of the inappropriateness > > of > > > > marketing > > > > > peace at > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come to > > terms > > > with > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. > > Last > > > week > > > > a > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar > > with > > > a > > > > banner > > > > > of > > > > > > friendship; another is invading Delhi > > to > > > talk > > > > peace. > > > > > Worse > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts held > > > meetings to > > > > > ensure > > > > > > that their peace mission was a roaring > > > success, > > > > apart > > > > > from > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or > > they us, > > > they > > > > are > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make > > > endless > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, dress, > > > language, > > > > > culture and > > > > > > of course history. Politically correct, > > but > > > > untrue > > > > > because > > > > > > there are distinct differences in the > > > respective > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, rituals > > and > > > > religion. > > > > > What > > > > > > are common are the scars of Partition > > and a > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend > > do not > > > > exist as > > > > > they > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while > > > pining for > > > > a > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to savour > > > kebabs and > > > > > hosting > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface > > and > > > there > > > > is > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have little > > chance > > > of > > > > > healing. > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > positions > > > > harden. > > > > > Then it > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > 'you > > > and > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > Zardari > > > tried to > > > > > charm > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying that > > > there is > > > > a > > > > > little > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani and > > vice > > > versa, > > > > the > > > > > truth is > > > > > > that there is no love lost between the > > two. > > > It is > > > > rare > > > > > to > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > Pakistani. > > > However > > > > hard > > > > > we > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual > > > suspicion > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable divide > > and > > > > attempts > > > > > to > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > impossible. > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles for > > peace > > > is at > > > > best > > > > > a > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > results. > > > In > > > > other > > > > > words, a > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when an > > enraged > > > > Pranab > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign Minister, > > sheds > > > > diplomacy > > > > > and > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it is > > time to > > > shed > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, and > > > abandon > > > > the > > > > > song and > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to be > > > brutally > > > > honest > > > > > and > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace to > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > is > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not bonds > > of > > > history > > > > that > > > > > force > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > peace > > > with > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > will also help end the > > "like-mindedness" > > > > theory > > > > > and > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in place > > of > > > > non-workable > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > about > > > > camaraderie > > > > > and > > > > > > help us face reality: however hard, > > bitter > > > and > > > > brutal > > > > > it may > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will > > be > > > much > > > > easier > > > > > to > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering > > on > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and there > > could be > > > a > > > > road > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly treading > > the > > > path > > > > and > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. But > > break > > > bread > > > > > together > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > despite the > > > > kebabs > > > > > and > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a volatile > > > Indo-Pak > > > > border > > > > > are > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be the > > > peaceniks. > > > > Not > > > > > only > > > > > > will they be out of work but will be > > > unwilling to > > > > > accept > > > > > > that what they have been marketing all > > these > > > > years is > > > > > an > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > > media and > > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > > in > > > > the > > > > > subject > > > > > > header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From navayana at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 16:10:04 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... Message-ID: http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm (Imagi)nation without the subaltern PRASHANT KADAM This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be heard yet again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song celebrates and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from the film "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street corners to celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again this January 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by Manoj Kumar (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its natural resources and its leaders. The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, khilate hain aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese hain chaman ke phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal bahaadoor se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar se (In these gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, Subhash, Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour green stands for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is drawn from Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) Although the entire song needs close attention at various levels, I shall focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few facts have to be taken into consideration before engaging with the discourse of the song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri Goswami in Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and displacement in his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric writer, Gulshan Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar background. The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. The point in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while envisioning the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his team were selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. New colour While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it superimposes the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the Buddha. Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin who openly criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful negotiations, also finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is the invoking of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a relatively unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur Shastri). Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The mention of Lal Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact that "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His inclusion perhaps could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he been slipped in here? The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian tricolour with "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non-existent red is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song systematically associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — with certain leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark blue coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not only does the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also the 24 arcs of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its central place in the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, when it comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the Dhamma Chakra's significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with this exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, Dr. B.R. Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The man who framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually unknown Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on his name. Ample liberties Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in the flag effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the Indian National Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has to be understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted from the Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or regional identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such as love, courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" song takes ample liberties in associating the national flag with an unbalanced choice of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the absence of women leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is symbolic and itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song and its creators. Although I do understand that the token representation of images of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have limited influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the inaudibility and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere Desh ki Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, we must hear and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its ambiguous erasures. The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies at York University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 17:12:39 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <963372.7011.qm@web53609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for us. Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is piling up on the street because of the government, and so on. We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than more violence. Yousuf --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > Dear Yousuf, > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > go through this link. > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > University of Maryland." > I think even Taha can do the math. > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > Thank you > Rahul > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > Dear Rahul > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > be > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > there is > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > as a > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > in the > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > some > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > the > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > preaching > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > opportunity to > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > realize > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > their > > approach. This is the only way situations are > controlled in > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > everyone > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > survey was > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > population of > > lakhs. > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > wrote: > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Peace > Initiative" > > , > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > equal > > number > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > eradicated > > > from the face of the earth." > > > I agree. > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > terror > > > possible > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > govt." > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > advocating > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > should not > > be > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > flourish > > and > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > flops on > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > statements > > related > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > they are > > in > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > flourishing > > with > > > the support of the establishment. > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > that > > person, > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > doesn't > > afflict > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > mail.Contrary to > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > person > > does > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > accept > > the > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > while > > the > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > of > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > I > > have > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > would > > not > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > supporting > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > the > > way > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > what > > it has > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > the > > money > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > eradicate > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > people in > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > and > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > hand,while all > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > from the > > US. > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > unless and > > > until there is an existential threat to the > army.Its > > just > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > warmongers.But > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > insisting on > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > us > > closer > > > towards war. > > > > > > Regards > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > , > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > be > > true - > > > I > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > survey in > > > India, > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > Muslims > > > need to > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > Same > > result > > > may > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > not > > born > > > with > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > Pakistan > > early > > > this > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > but > > he > > > won't > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > school in > > his > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > the > > > situation > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > this > > because > > > for us > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > if > > they > > > > don't have schools in their > village". > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > terror > > > possible > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > govt. > > Was > > > the > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > by > > > crushing > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > situation > > become > > > worse > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > complexities > > > of our > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > interviewed > > > in the > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > The > > only > > > image > > > > that their education system has given them > of > > India is > > > that > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > only > > > strengthen > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > But > > I > > > agree > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > the > > only > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > help in > > > improving > > > > the results of those surveys in each > other's > > > favour. If > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > person, > > or > > > do you > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > afflict > > you. > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > , > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > PM > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > Have you come across this survey > published > > in a > > > > Pakistani > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > in the > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > said > > that > > > Islam > > > > and > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > those > > > surveyed > > > > in > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > was > > > acceptable > > > > in > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > most > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > me,so > > can > > > you > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > that > > there > > > is > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > that can > > be > > > > expected to > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > questions > > > > polled. > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > difference? > > > How do > > > > you > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > and > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , > "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > 3:25 PM > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > response to > > an > > > HT > > > > article > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > write-up I > > am > > > > wondering if > > > > > this > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > Gandhi, > > > Kabir, > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > find > > the > > > job > > > > of the > > > > > > “peaceniks” futile and a waste > of > > time, > > > I > > > > found > > > > > your > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > large > > > number > > > > of > > > > > people on > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > up > > with > > > terror > > > > and > > > > > violence > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > solution. But > > > much > > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > attack on > > > such > > > > > people who > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > productive and > > > > > positive > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > of > > the > > > people > > > > who > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > proposing > > > that > > > > all > > > > > efforts > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > the > > > > people-to-people > > > > > contact > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > and > > > replaced > > > > simply > > > > > by a > > > > > > cold “co-existence”, how > exactly do > > you > > > > define > > > > > this > > > > > > co-existence? Aren’t we > co-existing > > right > > > now? > > > > How > > > > > can a > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > parties > > > between > > > > Indian > > > > > and > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > any > > > purpose, but > > > > I > > > > > found > > > > > > your statement that there are > actually > > no > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > Pakistan > > > rather > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > hostile > > to > > > each > > > > other > > > > > > because they are culturally > dissimilar, > > then > > > we > > > > should > > > > > have > > > > > > a million more partitions within > India > > due > > > to our > > > > > cultural > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > activists > > of > > > the two > > > > > countries > > > > > > have remained less effective so > far > > because > > > their > > > > > reach has > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > Lahore > > > only. > > > > If > > > > > they > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > such > > as > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > and > > meet > > > the > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > people, they’ll probably be able > to > > > understand > > > > each > > > > > other > > > > > > better and realize that not > everyone in > > > these > > > > > countries > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > is > > “an > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > it > > are > > > both > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > and impossible”, I think the > divide > > has > > > been > > > > created > > > > > by > > > > > > the governments and writers like > you. > > The > > > > ordinary > > > > > people of > > > > > > the two countries are the only > ones who > > can > > > > bridge > > > > > this > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > India and > > > Pakistan > > > > who > > > > > will > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > dialogue > > and > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We’re not all in it together > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > Pakistan > > > > escalating, > > > > > the > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > peace > > have > > > their > > > > hands > > > > > full. > > > > > > Irrespective of the > inappropriateness > > of > > > > marketing > > > > > peace at > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > to > > terms > > > with > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > overactive. > > Last > > > week > > > > a > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > Amritsar > > with > > > a > > > > banner > > > > > of > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > Delhi > > to > > > talk > > > > peace. > > > > > Worse > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > held > > > meetings to > > > > > ensure > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > roaring > > > success, > > > > apart > > > > > from > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > or > > they us, > > > they > > > > are > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > make > > > endless > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > dress, > > > language, > > > > > culture and > > > > > > of course history. Politically > correct, > > but > > > > untrue > > > > > because > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > the > > > respective > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > rituals > > and > > > > religion. > > > > > What > > > > > > are common are the scars of > Partition > > and a > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > pretend > > do not > > > > exist as > > > > > they > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > while > > > pining for > > > > a > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > regime. It’s all very well to > savour > > > kebabs and > > > > > hosting > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > surface > > and > > > there > > > > is > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > little > > chance > > > of > > > > > healing. > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > positions > > > > harden. > > > > > Then it > > > > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather than > > ‘you > > > and > > > > us’. > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > Zardari > > > tried to > > > > > charm > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > that > > > there is > > > > a > > > > > little > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > and > > vice > > > versa, > > > > the > > > > > truth is > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > the > > two. > > > It is > > > > rare > > > > > to > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > Pakistani. > > > However > > > > hard > > > > > we > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > mutual > > > suspicion > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > divide > > and > > > > attempts > > > > > to > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > impossible. > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > for > > peace > > > is at > > > > best > > > > > a > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > results. > > > In > > > > other > > > > > words, a > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > an > > enraged > > > > Pranab > > > > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign > Minister, > > sheds > > > > diplomacy > > > > > and > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > is > > time to > > > shed > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > and > > > abandon > > > > the > > > > > song and > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > be > > > brutally > > > > honest > > > > > and > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > to > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > is > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > bonds > > of > > > history > > > > that > > > > > force > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > peace > > > with > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > will also help end the > > “like-mindedness” > > > > theory > > > > > and > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > place > > of > > > > non-workable > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > about > > > > camaraderie > > > > > and > > > > > > help us face reality: however > hard, > > bitter > > > and > > > > brutal > > > > > it may > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > will > > be > > > much > > > > easier > > > > > to > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > bordering > > on > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > there > > could be > > > a > > > > road > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > treading > > the > > > path > > > > and > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > But > > break > > > bread > > > > > together > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > despite the > > > > kebabs > > > > > and > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > volatile > > > Indo-Pak > > > > border > > > > > are > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > the > > > peaceniks. > > > > Not > > > > > only > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > be > > > unwilling to > > > > > accept > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > all > > these > > > > years is > > > > > an > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > list on > > > media and > > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > > in > > > > the > > > > > subject > > > > > > header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 18:48:23 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:48:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gaza War - Analysis from The Pathetic Indian Middle Message-ID: <5c5369880901250518j55c59ca3n93b5b4680e62e2a4@mail.gmail.com> India's Israel envy By Shashi Tharoor http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057981.html NEW DELHI - As Israeli planes and tanks were exacting a heavy toll on Gaza, India's leaders and strategic thinkers were watching with an unusual degree of interest - and some empathy. India's government, no surprise, joined the rest of the world in calling for an end to the military action, but its criticism of Israel was muted. For, as Israel demonstrated anew its determination to end attacks on its civilians by militants based in Hamas-controlled territory, many in India, still smarting from the horrors of the Mumbai attacks in November, have been asking: Why can't we do the same? For many Indians, the temptation to identify with Israel was strengthened by the terrorists' seizure of the Chabad House, and the painful awareness that India and Israel share many of the same enemies. India, with its 150 million Muslims, has long been a staunch supporter of the Palestinian cause, and remains strongly committed to an independent Palestinian state. But the Mumbai attacks confirmed what has become apparent in recent years: The forces of global Islamist terror have added Indians to their target list of reviled "Jews and crusaders." Just as Israel has frequently been attacked by rockets fired from across its border, India has suffered repeated assaults by killers trained, equipped, financed and directed by elements based next door, in Pakistan. When president George W. Bush's press secretary equated members of Hamas with the Mumbai killers, her comments were widely circulated in India. Yet there the parallels end. Israel is a small country living in a permanent state of siege, highly security-conscious and surrounded by forces hostile to it; India is a giant country whose borders are notoriously permeable, an open society known for its lax and easygoing ways. Whereas many regard Israel's toughness as its principal characteristic, India's own citizens view their country as a soft state, its underbelly easily penetrated by determined terrorists. Whereas Israel notoriously exacts grim retribution for every attack on its soil, India has endured with numbing stoicism an endless series of bomb blasts, including at least six major assaults in different locations in 2008 alone. Terrorism has taken more lives in India than in any country in the world after Iraq, and yet, unlike Israel, India has seemed unable to do anything about it. Moreover, whereas Israel's principal adversary is currently Hamas, India faces a slew of terrorist organizations - Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Jamaat-ud-Dawa and more. But, whereas Hamas operates from Gaza without international recognition, India's tormentors function from Pakistan, a sovereign member of the United Nations. And that makes all the difference. Hamas is in no position to repay Israel's air and ground attacks in kind, whereas an Indian attack on Pakistani territory, even one targeting terrorist bases and training camps, would invite swift retaliation from the Pakistani army. And, at the end of the day, one chilling fact would prevent India from thinking that it could use Israel's playbook: The country that condones, if not foments, the terror attacks on India is a nuclear power. So India has gone to the world community with evidence that the Mumbai attacks were planned in Pakistan and conducted by Pakistanis who maintained contact with handlers there during the operation. While India had briefly hoped that the proof might enable Pakistan's weak civilian government to rein in the malign elements in its society, the Pakistani authorities' reaction has been one of denial. Yet no one doubts that Pakistan's all-powerful military intelligence has, over the last two decades, created and supported terror organizations as instruments of Pakistani policy in Afghanistan and India. When India's embassy in Kabul was hit by a suicide bomber last July, American intelligence sources revealed that not only was Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence behind the attack, but that it made little effort to cover its tracks. The ISI knew perfectly well that India would not go to war with Pakistan to avenge the killing of its diplomatic personnel. The fact is that India knows that war will accomplish nothing. Indeed, it is just what the terrorists want - a cause that would rally all Pakistanis to the flag and provide Pakistan's army an excuse to abandon the unpopular fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaida in the west for the more familiar terrain of the Indian border in the east. India's government sees no reason to play into the hands of those who seek that outcome. Yet, when Indians watch Israel take the fight to the enemy, killing those who launched rockets against it and dismantling many of the sites from which the rockets flew, some cannot resist wishing that they could do something similar in Pakistan. India understands, though, that the collateral damage would be too high, the price in civilian lives unacceptable, and the risks of the conflict spiraling out of control too acute to contemplate such an option. So Indians place their trust in international diplomacy and watch, with ill-disguised wistfulness, as Israel does what they could never permit themselves to do. Shashi Tharoor is an Indian novelist and commentator, and a former under-secretary-general of the United Nations. Copyright: Project Syndicate. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 19:17:01 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:47:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? In-Reply-To: <749241.4681.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <878633.22045.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf, I am not advocating war either.I admit I do not have any solutions.I agree with you that we are looking for simple solution to a complex problem.Perhaps we and others can discuss this over the course of time. For one, USA should be recognized as an equal ally in promoting terrorism in the region since it fails to see through the diabolical game that Pak army is playing and keeps funding it. Secondly,Pakistan should be diplomatically isolated and exposed,as India is trying to do right now. "Yes Pak govt. is > to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say > our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is > piling up on the street because of the government, and so > on." This analogy is disingenuous, to say the least.There are two major differences. 1. Pak army is not negligent or inefficient,quite the contrary.Its very efficient in its multinational business of propagating terrorism. 2.Its act of commission causes innumerable deaths including of its own citizens. Anyway,thanks for the exchange. Rahul --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: "sarai list" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 5:12 PM > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, > for us. Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is > to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say > our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is > piling up on the street because of the government, and so > on. We are trying to find simple solutions for complex > problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or > Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than > more violence. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > Dear Yousuf, > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a > feel > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people > contact > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize > that > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient > agreement. > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier > that > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be > educated > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in > statistics > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate > themselves > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, > please > > go through this link. > > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 > countries > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC > World > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan > together > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at > the > > University of Maryland." > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query > for a > > precedent on your request,will you please take any > further > > statistics and sampling related questions on my > behalf? > > > > Thank you > > Rahul > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > Dear Rahul > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more > Indians to > > be > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > there is > > > always a long term and short term strategy > required. I > > as a > > > citizen don't have the resources to get > involved > > in the > > > short term and "surgical" treatment > (which > > some > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement > in > > the > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > preaching > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > opportunity to > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > realize > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably > change > > their > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > controlled in > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > everyone > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You > haven't > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > survey was > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > population of > > > lakhs. > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > , > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, > an > > equal > > > number > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to > be > > > eradicated > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > I agree. > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term > solution to > > > terror > > > > possible > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > govt." > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > advocating > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > should not > > > be > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > flourish > > > and > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent > flip > > > flops on > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > statements > > > related > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how > sincere > > they are > > > in > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > flourishing > > > with > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to > treat > > that > > > person, > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > doesn't > > > afflict > > > > you. That's the choice we have to > make." > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > mail.Contrary to > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > person > > > does > > > > want to be "treated".How do you > plan to > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready > to > > accept > > > the > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead > Indians > > while > > > the > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that > majority > > of > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of > Indians.As > > I > > > have > > > > written earlier,even if that were the > case,that > > would > > > not > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > supporting > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the > state in > > the > > > way > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can > see > > what > > > it has > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in > return for > > the > > > money > > > > it receives from the US.It will never > completely > > > eradicate > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The > poor > > > people in > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one > hand > > and > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the > other > > > hand,while all > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more > funds > > from the > > > US. > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak > policies of > > > > propagating international terrorism will not > end > > > unless and > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > army.Its > > > just > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > warmongers.But > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the > debate > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities > and > > > insisting on > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and > push > > us > > > closer > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > , > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 > PM > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned > must > > be > > > true - > > > > I > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we > do a > > > survey in > > > > India, > > > > > an equal number of people will say > Islam and > > > Muslims > > > > need to > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the > earth. > > Same > > > result > > > > may > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People > are > > not > > > born > > > > with > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they > are > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > Pakistan > > > early > > > > this > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a > butcher, > > but > > > he > > > > won't > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > school in > > > his > > > > > village". I think that says a lot > about > > the > > > > situation > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not > appreciate > > this > > > because > > > > for us > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with > them > > if > > > they > > > > > don't have schools in their > > village". > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term > solution to > > > terror > > > > possible > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming > its > > govt. > > > Was > > > > the > > > > > might of America able to eradicate > Al-Qaeda > > by > > > > crushing > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > situation > > > become > > > > worse > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > complexities > > > > of our > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that > were > > > interviewed > > > > in the > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a > Hindu. > > The > > > only > > > > image > > > > > that their education system has given > them > > of > > > India is > > > > that > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation > will > > only > > > > strengthen > > > > > that image for them (and for us about > them). > > But > > > I > > > > agree > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is > not > > the > > > only > > > > > effective solution - but it can > probably > > help in > > > > improving > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > other's > > > > favour. If > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat > that > > person, > > > or > > > > do you > > > > > kill him so that his disease > doesn't > > afflict > > > you. > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is > peace and > > > > reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , > "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > , > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, > 7:13 > > PM > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > published > > > in a > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of > participants > > in the > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing > and > > said > > > that > > > > Islam > > > > > and > > > > > > other religions supported > it." > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent > of all > > > those > > > > surveyed > > > > > in > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide > bombing > > was > > > > acceptable > > > > > in > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and > Lebanon." > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably > the > > most > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better > than > > me,so > > > can > > > > you > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my > assumption > > that > > > there > > > > is > > > > > > probably no other place in > Pakistan > > that can > > > be > > > > > expected to > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in > the > > > questions > > > > > polled. > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > difference? > > > > How do > > > > > you > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is > peace > > and > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , > > "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: > kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, > 2009, > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > response to > > > an > > > > HT > > > > > article > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > write-up I > > > am > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > this > > > > > > > is the same country which > produced > > > Gandhi, > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > such non-violent people. > While you > > find > > > the > > > > job > > > > > of the > > > > > > > “peaceniks” futile and a > waste > > of > > > time, > > > > I > > > > > found > > > > > > your > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. > Today, a > > > large > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > both sides of the border are > fed > > up > > > with > > > > terror > > > > > and > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > and are anxious for a > workable > > > solution. But > > > > much > > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > essay is an extremely > pessimistic > > > attack on > > > > such > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst > into > > > > productive and > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very > intentions > > of > > > the > > > > people > > > > > who > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you > are > > > proposing > > > > that > > > > > all > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation > and > > the > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be > shut > > and > > > > replaced > > > > > simply > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > cold “co-existence”, how > > exactly do > > > you > > > > > define > > > > > > this > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren’t we > > co-existing > > > right > > > > now? > > > > > How > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this > co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > parties > > > > between > > > > > Indian > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not > serve > > any > > > > purpose, but > > > > > I > > > > > > found > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > actually > > > no > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > between the culture of India > and > > > Pakistan > > > > rather > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should > be > > hostile > > > to > > > > each > > > > > other > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > dissimilar, > > > then > > > > we > > > > > should > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a million more partitions > within > > India > > > due > > > > to our > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > activists > > > of > > > > the two > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > have remained less effective > so > > far > > > because > > > > their > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, > Amritsar or > > > Lahore > > > > only. > > > > > If > > > > > > they > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote > places > > such > > > as > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and > Faisalabad, > > and > > > meet > > > > the > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > people, they’ll probably be > able > > to > > > > understand > > > > > each > > > > > > other > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > everyone in > > > > these > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that > there > > is > > > “an > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to > bridge > > it > > > are > > > > both > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > and impossible”, I think > the > > divide > > > has > > > > been > > > > > created > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the governments and writers > like > > you. > > > The > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > the two countries are the > only > > ones who > > > can > > > > > bridge > > > > > > this > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing > such > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > India and > > > > Pakistan > > > > > who > > > > > > will > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > dialogue > > > and > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We’re not all in it > together > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan > Times > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India > and > > Pakistan > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > peace > > > have > > > > their > > > > > hands > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > inappropriateness > > > of > > > > > marketing > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to > come > > to > > > terms > > > > with > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > overactive. > > > Last > > > > week > > > > > a > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed > in > > Amritsar > > > with > > > > a > > > > > banner > > > > > > of > > > > > > > friendship; another is > invading > > Delhi > > > to > > > > talk > > > > > peace. > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > still, their Indian > counterparts > > held > > > > meetings to > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > that their peace mission was > a > > roaring > > > > success, > > > > > apart > > > > > > from > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on > Indian > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit > Pakistan > > or > > > they us, > > > > they > > > > > are > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. > Both > > make > > > > endless > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > and list commonalities in > food, > > dress, > > > > language, > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > of course history. > Politically > > correct, > > > but > > > > > untrue > > > > > > because > > > > > > > there are distinct > differences in > > the > > > > respective > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > languages, festivals, > customs, > > rituals > > > and > > > > > religion. > > > > > > What > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > Partition > > > and a > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > pretend > > > do not > > > > > exist as > > > > > > they > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear > hugs, > > while > > > > pining for > > > > > a > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > regime. It’s all very well > to > > savour > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch > the > > surface > > > and > > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that > have > > little > > > chance > > > > of > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism > and > > > positions > > > > > harden. > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather > than > > > ‘you > > > > and > > > > > us’. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif > Ali > > > Zardari > > > > tried to > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by > saying > > that > > > > there is > > > > > a > > > > > > little > > > > > > > bit of India in every > Pakistani > > and > > > vice > > > > versa, > > > > > the > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > that there is no love lost > between > > the > > > two. > > > > It is > > > > > rare > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to > a > > > Pakistani. > > > > However > > > > > hard > > > > > > we > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away > the > > mutual > > > > suspicion > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > history. There is an > irreparable > > divide > > > and > > > > > attempts > > > > > > to > > > > > > > bridge it are both > unrealistic and > > > > impossible. > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light > candles > > for > > > peace > > > > is at > > > > > best > > > > > > a > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no > tangible > > > results. > > > > In > > > > > other > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently > when > > an > > > enraged > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign > > Minister, > > > sheds > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > and > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be > faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground > reality, it > > is > > > time to > > > > shed > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get > real, > > and > > > > abandon > > > > > the > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We > need to > > be > > > > brutally > > > > > honest > > > > > > and > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on > peace > > to > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and > not > > bonds > > > of > > > > history > > > > > that > > > > > > force > > > > > > > us to live side by side. > Replacing > > > peace > > > > with > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > “like-mindedness” > > > > > theory > > > > > > and > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points > in > > place > > > of > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > alliances. It will end > pretensions > > > about > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > and > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > hard, > > > bitter > > > > and > > > > > brutal > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > be. Once minds are > re-scripted, it > > will > > > be > > > > much > > > > > easier > > > > > > to > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > bordering > > > on > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > there > > > could be > > > > a > > > > > road > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > abandon the thought of > jointly > > treading > > > the > > > > path > > > > > and > > > > > > > solutions could be on the > anvil. > > But > > > break > > > > bread > > > > > > together > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter > because > > > despite the > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > and > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > volatile > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > border > > > > > > are > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would > be > > the > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > Not > > > > > > only > > > > > > > will they be out of work but > will > > be > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > that what they have been > marketing > > all > > > these > > > > > years is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open > discussion > > list on > > > > media and > > > > > the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > Critiques & > Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email > to > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > > subscribe > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 19:17:24 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:47:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Magic realism tries to bridge borders of hate Message-ID: <515723.99371.qm@web51410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This is the kind of activism which one would certainly call page-3 kebab party between Indian and Pakistani literati which would not achieve much for peace. Its also feel good only for a few attending the festival (although I don't mean to belittle the cause of literature). ------ Magic realism tries to bridge borders of hate 25 Jan 2009, 0447 hrs IST, Rashmee Roshan Lall, TNN JAIPUR: This is where the ongoing cultural cold war may have briefly chilled out as Indian and Pakistani writers crossed metaphysical borders to commune in surroundings so far removed from their acerbic bilateral politics, it might have been Rushdie-style magic realism in reverse. A flight of parakeets unceasingly ducked and dived through the low foliage of the manicured lawns of an 1860s haveli, made available for the three-year-old, annual Jaipur Literature Festival. A perfect sun lit up five perfect blue-skied days. And a dialogue of suspended hopefulness between two troubled neighbours seemingly bloomed in the barren heart of a desert city. Appearances may be deceptive. Just three Pakistani writers were present at the Festival, which ends today. A well-advertised fourth, Ahmed Rashid, elected to remain in Washington because rumour has it, his journalist’s nose wouldn’t allow him to leave a developing story, namely mint-new American President Obama planning a “major” speech in a Muslim country by the middle of next month. Accordingly, the Festival’s Pakistani contingent in the conversation between us — unquiet neighbours — were Mohammed Hanif, Nadeem Aslam and Daniyal Mueenuddin. Ranged against them, the phalanx of India’s heavy intellectual artillery — Swapan Dasgupta, Ashis Nandy, Tarun Vijay and Barkha Dutt. It would have been understandable, if unforgivable, had each ‘side’ employed the “campaign of truth”, famously set in stone for a cultural cold war by US assistant secretary of state Edward Barrett in the 1950s. Barrett had said “a highly skillful and substantial campaign of truth is as indispensable as an air force.” Few here wanted to hazard a guess at the “truth” of, before and after 26/11. Not Mueenuddin, who was asked by a member of the Festival audience whether he thought Pakistan had declined as a state. Mueenuddin, whose collection of linked short stories In Other Rooms, Other Wonders, is published next month, replied, “that’s very easy. Yes”. Not Hanif, a BBC journalist based in Karachi, who has won praise for his spare, soberingly funny debut novel on General Zia’s assassination, A Case of Exploding Mangoes. His Ali Shigri, a fictional junior trainee in the Pakistan Air Force, parodies the suicidal jihadi vision that plagues our waking dreams: “As Obaid used to say, ‘God’s glory. God’s glory. For every monkey there is a houri’.” A native of Okara, the district in Punjab that has become infamous for siring 26/11’s sole captured terrorist Ajmal Amir Kasab, Hanif is resigned to being forever yoked, at one remove, with dangerously default anti-Indianism. “My passport still shows my permanent address as Okara,” he recounts, “so at (Indian) immigration, they asked me, somewhat disbelievingly, to repeat where I came from.” He adds, “but they were very nice actually. They let me through”. As they did the rest. Festival co-director William Dalrymple, writer and bon vivant, describes the inherent difficulties of putting together a cross-national literary festival in a region caught in the snarl of politics. “It was a very deliberate decision to include Pakistani writers. Before the Mumbai attacks we’d invited them because they’re good writers. After the attacks, we had to make a decision whether or not to disinvite them, so to speak. We decided to go ahead, make a virtue of it. The Indian Council for Cultural Relations helped with visas”. He adds, “Many figures on the centre left as well as the right have argued for a sporting and cultural boycott of Pakistan. It is extremely important to keep up the cultural dialogue between Pakistan and India. Once you start pulling the plug on writers and artists, the fanatics have won.” Hence, the South Asian twist to Lennon’s anthem of peace, with the Festival straining to deliver, as Dalrymple says, “one Hindu, Muslim and Jew playing together every night” to underline the sweet pain of co-existence. With funding from London’s Coexist Foundation and a substantial donation from an unnamed wealthy British Jew, the Festival made a point of laying on a multi-faith concert every night. Not least Salman Ahmad, beautiful to see, electrifying to hear, representative of Junoon, one of Pakistan’s most popular rock bands. As also, Israeli singer Shye Ben-Tzur, who fuses Rajasthani rhythms with Western sounds and Turkic sufi musician Kudsi Erguner, who played to Rumi recitations by American poet Coleman Barks. What, if anything, did it add up to? Does the idealism seems a trifle overdone considering this gloriously free, unticketed Festival drew just 7,000 people in the 72 hours till its penultimate day, Saturday? The question is particularly apt today, 24 hours after Pakistan’s first “peace mission” to India since the Mumbai attacks, left Delhi. Salman Rushdie, the father of 20th century sub-continental writing in English, was famously ‘’interested in reimagining reality itself, not in just imagining alternatives to reality.’’ He presented magical characters or events in realistic settings. The Jaipur Festival’s Indo-Pak vibe may have reversed that — it presented real people in magical settings. From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 23:02:01 2009 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:32:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? Message-ID: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by Prasant imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but fails to perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims in this nationalist song of Bharat Kumar! On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing) > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 > From: Navayana Publishing > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... > To: sarai list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern > > PRASHANT KADAM > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be heard yet > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song > celebrates > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from the film > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street corners to > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again this January > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by Manoj > Kumar > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its natural > resources and its leaders. > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, khilate > hain > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese hain chaman > ke > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal bahaadoor > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar se (In these > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, Subhash, > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour green stands > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is drawn from > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various levels, I shall > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few facts have > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the discourse of the > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri Goswami in > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and displacement > in > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric writer, Gulshan > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar background. > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. The point > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while > envisioning > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his team were > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. > > New colour > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it superimposes > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the Buddha. > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin who openly > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful negotiations, also > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is the invoking > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a relatively > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur Shastri). > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The mention of > Lal > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact that > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His inclusion perhaps > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he been slipped > in here? > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian tricolour with > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non-existent red > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song > systematically > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — with > certain > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark blue > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not only does > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also the 24 > arcs > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its central place in > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, when it > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the Dhamma Chakra's > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with this > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, Dr. B.R. > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The man who > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually unknown > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on his name. > > Ample liberties > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in the flag > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the Indian National > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has to be > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted from the > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or regional > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such as love, > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" song takes > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an unbalanced choice > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the absence of women > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is symbolic and > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song and its > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation of images > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have limited > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the inaudibility > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere Desh ki > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, we must hear > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its ambiguous erasures. > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies at York > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca > > www.navayana.org > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for us. > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held responsible > for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because of the govt., > the garbage is piling up on the street because of the government, and so on. > We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any way, I am > not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer > reconciliation rather than more violence. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > Dear Yousuf, > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > > go through this link. > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > > University of Maryland." > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > > > Thank you > > Rahul > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > Dear Rahul > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > > be > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > there is > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > > as a > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > > in the > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > > some > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > > the > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > preaching > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > opportunity to > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > realize > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > > their > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > controlled in > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > everyone > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > survey was > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > population of > > > lakhs. > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > , > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > > equal > > > number > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > > eradicated > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > I agree. > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > terror > > > > possible > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > govt." > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > advocating > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > should not > > > be > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > flourish > > > and > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > > flops on > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > statements > > > related > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > > they are > > > in > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > flourishing > > > with > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > > that > > > person, > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > doesn't > > > afflict > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > mail.Contrary to > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > person > > > does > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > > accept > > > the > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > > while > > > the > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > > of > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > > I > > > have > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > > would > > > not > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > supporting > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > > the > > > way > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > > what > > > it has > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > > the > > > money > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > > eradicate > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > > people in > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > > and > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > > hand,while all > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > > from the > > > US. > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > > unless and > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > army.Its > > > just > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > warmongers.But > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > > insisting on > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > > us > > > closer > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > , > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > > be > > > true - > > > > I > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > > survey in > > > > India, > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > > Muslims > > > > need to > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > > Same > > > result > > > > may > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > > not > > > born > > > > with > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > Pakistan > > > early > > > > this > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > > but > > > he > > > > won't > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > school in > > > his > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > > the > > > > situation > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > > this > > > because > > > > for us > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > > if > > > they > > > > > don't have schools in their > > village". > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > terror > > > > possible > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > govt. > > > Was > > > > the > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > > by > > > > crushing > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > situation > > > become > > > > worse > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > complexities > > > > of our > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > > interviewed > > > > in the > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > > The > > > only > > > > image > > > > > that their education system has given them > > of > > > India is > > > > that > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > > only > > > > strengthen > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > > But > > > I > > > > agree > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > > the > > > only > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > > help in > > > > improving > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > other's > > > > favour. If > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > person, > > > or > > > > do you > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > > afflict > > > you. > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > , > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > > PM > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > published > > > in a > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > > in the > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > > said > > > that > > > > Islam > > > > > and > > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > > those > > > > surveyed > > > > > in > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > > was > > > > acceptable > > > > > in > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > > most > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > > me,so > > > can > > > > you > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > > that > > > there > > > > is > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > > that can > > > be > > > > > expected to > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > > questions > > > > > polled. > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > difference? > > > > How do > > > > > you > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > > and > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , > > "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > response to > > > an > > > > HT > > > > > article > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > write-up I > > > am > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > this > > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > > Gandhi, > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > > find > > > the > > > > job > > > > > of the > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste > > of > > > time, > > > > I > > > > > found > > > > > > your > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > > large > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > > up > > > with > > > > terror > > > > > and > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > > solution. But > > > > much > > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > > attack on > > > > such > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > > productive and > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > > of > > > the > > > > people > > > > > who > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > > proposing > > > > that > > > > > all > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > > the > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > > and > > > > replaced > > > > > simply > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how > > exactly do > > > you > > > > > define > > > > > > this > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we > > co-existing > > > right > > > > now? > > > > > How > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > parties > > > > between > > > > > Indian > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > > any > > > > purpose, but > > > > > I > > > > > > found > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > actually > > > no > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > > Pakistan > > > > rather > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > > hostile > > > to > > > > each > > > > > other > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > dissimilar, > > > then > > > > we > > > > > should > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a million more partitions within > > India > > > due > > > > to our > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > activists > > > of > > > > the two > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > have remained less effective so > > far > > > because > > > > their > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > > Lahore > > > > only. > > > > > If > > > > > > they > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > > such > > > as > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > > and > > > meet > > > > the > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able > > to > > > > understand > > > > > each > > > > > > other > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > everyone in > > > > these > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > > is > > > "an > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > > it > > > are > > > > both > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the > > divide > > > has > > > > been > > > > > created > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the governments and writers like > > you. > > > The > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > the two countries are the only > > ones who > > > can > > > > > bridge > > > > > > this > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > India and > > > > Pakistan > > > > > who > > > > > > will > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > dialogue > > > and > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > > Pakistan > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > peace > > > have > > > > their > > > > > hands > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > inappropriateness > > > of > > > > > marketing > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > > to > > > terms > > > > with > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > overactive. > > > Last > > > > week > > > > > a > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > > Amritsar > > > with > > > > a > > > > > banner > > > > > > of > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > > Delhi > > > to > > > > talk > > > > > peace. > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > > held > > > > meetings to > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > > roaring > > > > success, > > > > > apart > > > > > > from > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > > or > > > they us, > > > > they > > > > > are > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > > make > > > > endless > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > > dress, > > > > language, > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > of course history. Politically > > correct, > > > but > > > > > untrue > > > > > > because > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > > the > > > > respective > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > > rituals > > > and > > > > > religion. > > > > > > What > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > Partition > > > and a > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > pretend > > > do not > > > > > exist as > > > > > > they > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > > while > > > > pining for > > > > > a > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to > > savour > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > > surface > > > and > > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > > little > > > chance > > > > of > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > > positions > > > > > harden. > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > > 'you > > > > and > > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > > Zardari > > > > tried to > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > > that > > > > there is > > > > > a > > > > > > little > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > > and > > > vice > > > > versa, > > > > > the > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > > the > > > two. > > > > It is > > > > > rare > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > > Pakistani. > > > > However > > > > > hard > > > > > > we > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > > mutual > > > > suspicion > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > > divide > > > and > > > > > attempts > > > > > > to > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > > impossible. > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > > for > > > peace > > > > is at > > > > > best > > > > > > a > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > > results. > > > > In > > > > > other > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > > an > > > enraged > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign > > Minister, > > > sheds > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > and > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > > is > > > time to > > > > shed > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > > and > > > > abandon > > > > > the > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > > be > > > > brutally > > > > > honest > > > > > > and > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > > to > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > > bonds > > > of > > > > history > > > > > that > > > > > > force > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > > peace > > > > with > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > "like-mindedness" > > > > > theory > > > > > > and > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > > place > > > of > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > > about > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > and > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > hard, > > > bitter > > > > and > > > > > brutal > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > > will > > > be > > > > much > > > > > easier > > > > > > to > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > bordering > > > on > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > there > > > could be > > > > a > > > > > road > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > > treading > > > the > > > > path > > > > > and > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > > But > > > break > > > > bread > > > > > > together > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > > despite the > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > and > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > volatile > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > border > > > > > > are > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > > the > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > Not > > > > > > only > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > > be > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > > all > > > these > > > > > years is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on > > > > media and > > > > > the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93 > ******************************************* > -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 00:47:42 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:47:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? Message-ID: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> on Fake and Art >From introduction to The Piracy of Art by Sylvere Lotringer: "In The Conspiracy of Art, Baudrillard questions the privilege attached to art by its practitioners. Art has lost all desire for illusion: feeding back endlessly into itself, it has turned its own vanishment into an art unto itself. Far from lamenting the "end of art," Baudrillard celebrates art's new function within the process of insider-trading. Spiraling from aesthetic nullity to commercial frenzy, art has become transaesthetic, like society as a whole". With the backdrop of the above thought piece on Art, I believe, we can seriously enter the debate on Faking, and its age old practice in Art. I guess we all would like to know different opinions on the subject, since a couple of days back, S.H Raza a noted Paris based Artist was invited to inaugurate his own show where he discovered Fakes, not one but many. As we know, this happened at one of the oldest gallery, Doomimal Art Gallery in New Delhi. Reports say that he is initiating legal action against those who are responsible for faking his art. Tintorrito, a Renaissance Master in Venice was notorious for lifting other's compositions, and yet J.P. Satre wrote highly about his genius, and not for nothing we have his paintings hung in Museums next to those who labelled him unethical once. Even if this does not fall under the category of faking, we have MonaLisa which was faked many times during Leonardo's time itself, and there is doubt if the piece hung in Louvre is the a real one or a fake . You may press the link to read and see more on it. http://www.mystudios.com/gallery/forgery/history/index.html. Since ancient times, faking art is a practice, so Raza is not the first one to suffer. We have Bimal Roy fakes , Hussain fakes, Anjoli Menon fakes, Bawa faks, Arpana fakes and even Subodh Gupta fakes. The list is long and I heard there is some industry like thing near Bhopal, and ' faking art ' is thriving trade in India. The debate here is what is Fake in the first place? Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? But is there any significance of word 'legal/illegal' in art? The above artists and their like-minded brethren are anguished, but are they really? Or if yes, then do we need to join their anguish too, and if yes, what way it benefits society, art and life ? And if it is just about their market, why then we need to join the protest? Or is it high time to declare that Art is neither original nor duplicate; art is art, as long as its space-time is existentially breathing in 'the present'? And the present is all about quantum we signs we are dealing with on day to day basis. Who cares, if the Mao Zedong by Andy Warhol sells for 17 million or whatever, and if its other silk screen versions don't even sell for a shilling. To disseminate is the conceptual urgency... Still, they have a point, and for that reason a senior artists Anjoli Menon found a way out by marking her paintings with her thumb impression which can be verified by a forensic expert if need arises. So why don't other artists imitate her. Ah, these artists, as we know are too egoistic. They will trace a photograph on their canvas and fill it with their own colours of fantasy without declaring it publicly, or lift anything from any forgotten composition or from any popular form, but they wont lift anything what is well known in the art domain. In the present case of faking their originals, they feel helpless. I am personally amused. Now, imagine, if a painting which depicts Indira Gandhi or Gandhi by MF Hussain is recommended by Govt. of India to be incorporated into a Currency Note, and after some time it is discovered that the said work of art was fake, would that currency be also declared as Fake? Obviously no, because the value of the currency note is not measured by nuances of the line work or some details important in aesthetic world, but by the signature of the Reserve Bank Governer, who represents the State. Please note that how artist's signature on the canvas has often posited as the part of composition in the frame, and not merely as a sign to verify the rest around it. Here, the moment we attach a price tag to a painting it functions like a commercial object. It was perhaps inevitable. One can understand the compulsions, but what people in general have to say on the subject is quite important. I quote : "The real is not threatened by its double today, ( Clement Rosset ), it is threatened by its very idiocy". If the present is all about 'idiocy', then we need to grapple the meaning of it rather than what is happening between Artists and her/his collector. Any intensification of the debate on that account would eventually not rob the concerns of those artists who feel ' threatened by the double'. I am somehow interested by 'the idiocy of art in life' and its long term effects in society. Obviously, the collectors would offset such leanings in any art discourse and the artists who want to appease the collectors are likely to join the chorus. And if it becomes so black and white, I have no option but to be content with whatever 'idiocy' grants me. I quote Jean Baudrillard, from his book 'The System of Objects' : " The collector is never an utterly hopeless fanatic, precisely because he collects objects that in some way always prevent him from regressing into the ultimate abstraction of a delusional state, but at the same time the discourse he thus creates can never for the very same reason- get beyond a certain poverty and infantilism. Collecting is always a limited, a repetitive process, and the very material objects with which it is concerned are too concrete and too discontinuous ever to be articulated as a true dialectical structure. So if no-collectors are indeed ' nothing but morons,' collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and inhuman about them".# Those who have seen the film 'The Moderns' ( 1988 ) know the story of a failed painter down on his luck in Paris in the 1920's who accepts a commission to forge a famous impressionist paintings. The film questions what is real versus what is perceived or subjective. The plot twists include a millionaire art collector publicly slashing priceless paintings, thinking it as forged, while the fake paintings are sent to hang in a New York museum. By the account, what we see as best of impressionist works are in fact ' fakes'. Ah, what a relief. And for this reason alone, perhaps, we need to see Photography bereft of those faking fears. ( to be continued … ) -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 03:20:18 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:50:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1256?q?_RE=3A__=28Imagi=29nation_without_?= =?windows-1256?q?the_Muslims=3F=FE?= Message-ID: Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification from.......????..... It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only song that is played on the national days.Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab Pashchim) is preposterous.Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the movie itself .Regards allLA--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Wish to Marry Now? Join MSN Matrimony FREE! http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 03:49:10 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:19:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan has advantage over India Message-ID: <430445.59567.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=118492&d=25&m=1&y=2009 Pakistan has advantage over India M. J. Akbar | Arab News Foreign policy is not made in a day, much less on inauguration day. The smiles that broke out in Delhi when President Barack Obama cautioned Pakistan that nonmilitary aid would be cut if it did not curb domestic terrorism were premature. In any case, it is military aid rather than civilian aid to Islamabad which should be of more concern to Delhi, but the government in Delhi has become so dependent on the United States that it gets pleased with very little. An inaugural speech can only be peppered with markers that will slowly be fleshed into policy. But amateurs in Delhi have rushed to judgment where professionals fear to tread. There was an air of simulation in the bluster with which Pakistan reacted. The boys of Islamabad know a charade when they see it; they are experts in the game themselves, after all. They don’t need spectacles to read between the lines of Obama’s South Asia policy. Obama, still brimming with the audacity of hope, has promised peace all over the world and war in one corner: Afghanistan. Pakistan is not very competent in the disbursement of peace. Its expertise lies in the dissemination of war, by declaration or proxy, on enemy territory or the land of friends. And now of course it is fighting more than one war on its own soil. Pakistan knows that America cannot fight in Afghanistan without force, intelligence and logistical support provided by Pakistan. As long as this material situation does not change, America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America. Pakistan has decided to not merely extract a financial price for this support, but also a political price. London and Washington already know what the price is, and are getting ready to pay it in some abbreviated form. Pakistan has begun with a tremendous advantage over India in the Washington diplomatic game. It engaged with the Obama campaign and the transition team, while Indian diplomats, taking their cue from Dr. Manmohan Singh’s near-obsessive love for George W. Bush, concentrated totally on Bush and the Republicans. This has been a great failure of foreign policy for which we have already begun to suffer. Pakistan has persuaded key advisers of Obama that it cannot fight the Taleban with its full resources as long as it has to simultaneously defend its border with India. The Indian threat can only be lowered with a resolution of the Kashmir issue. Therefore, it is time America and Britain persuaded India to discuss and settle Kashmir. In an extraordinary maneuver, Pakistan turned around the Mumbai terror attack, organized on its soil. From predator, it refashioned itself into a victim. It used the war rhetoric from the Indian government to warn the West that it would pull out of the war against the Taleban. Delhi’s hot air proved doubly insipid. It did not frighten Pakistan one bit, but it scared the wits out of Washington and London, who rushed to Delhi and leaned on it. Delhi succumbed. India has lost twice over through Mumbai. It has become a laughing stock at security conferences. And it has allowed what could have been a diplomatic coup against Pakistan to become a diplomatic coup against India. This is incompetent governance, not just abysmal security. British Foreign Secretary David Miliband was audacious enough to contradict India’s prime minister on Indian soil, by saying that the terrorist attack was not sponsored by the Pakistan government, and that India had better do something about the core cause, Kashmir. Instead of snubbing him, Rahul Gandhi, Congress’ proxy prime minister, took Miliband for some private tourism of poverty. British correspondents in Delhi have applauded Miliband for telling it like it is, throwing in a sentence that this is going to be Obama’s line as well. Hillary Clinton, the incoming secretary of state, has already enunciated the Obama doctrine at her confirmation hearings in the Senate. The “hard power” of Bush will be replaced by “smart power.” This has been defined as the application of a “full range of tools ... diplomatic, economic, military, political, legal and cultural” in the pursuit of American interests. Pentagon awe will be accompanied by nudge and arm-twist. By the time the twisting is over, Delhi might need a heavy bandage on the elbow. Obama’s policy toward South Asia will be controlled by the compulsions of a war he wants to win in a hurry, before fatigue and a rising death toll turn it into another Iraq, or, worse, Vietnam. The battlefield will not be Afghanistan alone. American forces might soon have to fight in the western half of Pakistan, from Karachi to Swat, which is already being christened Talibanestan (the eastern half still remains Pakistan). Americans have reached that curious state of mind in which they want to win wars without losing soldiers. Their military research is concentrating on the robotization of the armed forces where even the infantry could become mechanical instead of human. But that is a long way ahead. The war for Afghanistan will be won or lost long before that. Muslims across the world are taking comfort in the semantics of Obama’s initial remarks. After being misbespoken to for eight years, it must be a relief to hear correct grammar. Some of them have taken partial ownership of his presidency because he used his middle name, Hussein, while taking the oath. But the issue is not what Obama says. It is what he does. Will he be able to get a resolution to Palestine except on harsh Israeli terms? Even if we ignore his campaign rhetoric — he could hardly afford to alienate the most powerful lobby in the United States — there are powerful interests protecting the expansionist reach of Israel. At all events, it will not be easy. Neither will be a victory in Afghanistan. As pressure mounts on him, he will be tempted to mount pressure on India through Kashmir. It is going to be a complicated game, which might drift endlessly to a point where every side looks like a loser. Hope needs to be handled very carefully if it wants to remain audacious. From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 04:53:00 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:23:00 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] peace and reconciliation is allright - what about accountability? In-Reply-To: <878633.22045.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <749241.4681.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <878633.22045.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The need of the hour is for the Pakistani civil society to mobilise opinion in their own country against the jihadi terror being perpetuated from their own soil agaist India. Hobnobbing with the compulsive peaceniks on this side who have themselves facilitated the political makeover of known Kashmiri terror commnders, serves no purpose - it only delays the process. Ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley during 1989-90; repeated jihadi terror attacks in J&K & rest of India & the latest 26-29/11 Mumbai massacre were executed at the behest of those who wanted to inflict 'thousand cuts' on the body of India.And it is only now when Pakistan is under international pressure & the menace of Jihadi terror has begun to target its own people that voices are being raised against it. There was no -absolutely no resistence by the so called Civil society in Pakistan when Kashmiri Islamists were being trained ,indoctrinated & armed openly there to create mayhem in our Kashmir - a quite valley was allowed to be turned in to a hell for Kashmiri masses.It is their own Talibanised Swat valley that is giving them jitters now. Painting 'clouds' over Kashmir in her work by visiting Salima Hashmi is definitely provocative from Indian point of view & in no way helps assuage the sentiments here at a time when LeT responsible for the 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage has also come forward (unchallanged....???....) representing the Kashmiri Islamists. SAFMA Secretary Gen.Imtiaz Alam during one of his last visits had the temerity to tell TOI (Q/A column) that he found the squalid refugee camps of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in Jammu as breeding grounds of RSS ideology.He conveniently ignored ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley as well as the pan Islamic fervour behind 'azadi -bara -e -islam' movement during his visit to Kashmir then. If only that lone terrorist was'nt cought alive in Mumbai, the Civil society as well as the state of Pakistan would have continued to remain in the denial mode. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:47:01 -0800> From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net; ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> CC: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?> > Dear Yousuf,> I am not advocating war either.I admit I do not have any solutions.I agree with you that we are looking for simple solution to a complex problem.Perhaps we and others can discuss this over the course of time.> For one, USA should be recognized as an equal ally in promoting terrorism in the region since it fails to see through the diabolical game that Pak army is playing and keeps funding it.> Secondly,Pakistan should be diplomatically isolated and exposed,as India is trying to do right now.> "Yes Pak govt. is > > to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say> > our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is> > piling up on the street because of the government, and so> > on."> This analogy is disingenuous, to say the least.There are two major differences.> 1. Pak army is not negligent or inefficient,quite the contrary.Its very efficient in its multinational business of propagating terrorism.> 2.Its act of commission causes innumerable deaths including of its own citizens.> Anyway,thanks for the exchange.> Rahul> > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf wrote:> > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?> > To: "sarai list" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 5:12 PM> > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is,> > for us. Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is> > to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say> > our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is> > piling up on the street because of the government, and so> > on. We are trying to find simple solutions for complex> > problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or> > Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than> > more violence.> > > > Yousuf> > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana> > wrote:> > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation> > an illusion?> > > To: "sarai list"> > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM> > > Dear Yousuf,> > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a> > feel> > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its> > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people> > contact> > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be> > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize> > that> > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient> > agreement.> > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier> > that> > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and> > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be> > educated> > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in> > statistics> > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate> > themselves> > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway,> > please> > > go through this link.> > >> > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm> > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17> > countries> > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC> > World> > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan> > together> > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at> > the> > > University of Maryland."> > > I think even Taha can do the math.> > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query> > for a> > > precedent on your request,will you please take any> > further> > > statistics and sampling related questions on my> > behalf?> > > > > > Thank you> > > Rahul> > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > wrote:> > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > reconciliation> > > an illusion?> > > > To: "sarai list"> > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM> > > > Dear Rahul> > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more> > Indians to> > > be> > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But> > > there is> > > > always a long term and short term strategy> > required. I> > > as a> > > > citizen don't have the resources to get> > involved> > > in the> > > > short term and "surgical" treatment> > (which> > > some> > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement> > in> > > the> > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the> > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are> > > preaching> > > > terror against the so-called kafirs> > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real> > > opportunity to> > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may> > > realize> > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably> > change> > > their> > > > approach. This is the only way situations are> > > controlled in> > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree> > > everyone> > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You> > haven't> > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi> > > survey was> > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a> > > population of> > > > lakhs. > > > > > > > > Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > reconciliation> > > > an illusion?> > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > , "Peace> > > Initiative"> > > > ,> > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM> > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India,> > an> > > equal> > > > number> > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to> > be> > > > eradicated> > > > > from the face of the earth."> > > > > I agree.> > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term> > solution to> > > > terror> > > > > possible> > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its> > > > govt."> > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not> > > advocating> > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt> > > should not> > > > be> > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD> > > flourish> > > > and> > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent> > flip> > > > flops on> > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other> > > statements> > > > related> > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how> > sincere> > > they are> > > > in> > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors> > > flourishing> > > > with> > > > > the support of the establishment.> > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to> > treat> > > that> > > > person,> > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease> > > doesn't> > > > afflict> > > > > you. That's the choice we have to> > make."> > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier> > > mail.Contrary to> > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the> > > person> > > > does> > > > > want to be "treated".How do you> > plan to> > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready> > to> > > accept> > > > the> > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead> > Indians> > > while> > > > the> > > > > "treatment" is going on?> > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that> > majority> > > of> > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of> > Indians.As> > > I> > > > have> > > > > written earlier,even if that were the> > case,that> > > would> > > > not> > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps> > > supporting> > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds.> > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the> > state in> > > the> > > > way> > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can> > see> > > what> > > > it has> > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in> > return for> > > the> > > > money> > > > > it receives from the US.It will never> > completely> > > > eradicate> > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The> > poor> > > > people in> > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one> > hand> > > and> > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the> > other> > > > hand,while all> > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more> > funds> > > from the> > > > US.> > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak> > policies of> > > > > propagating international terrorism will not> > end> > > > unless and> > > > > until there is an existential threat to the> > > army.Its> > > > just> > > > > too profitable a business for them.> > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the> > > > warmongers.But> > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the> > debate> > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities> > and> > > > insisting on> > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and> > push> > > us> > > > closer> > > > > towards war.> > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > Rahul> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > reconciliation> > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > , "Peace> > > > Initiative"> > > > > ,> > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06> > PM> > > > > > Dear Rahul> > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned> > must> > > be> > > > true -> > > > > I> > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we> > do a> > > > survey in> > > > > India,> > > > > > an equal number of people will say> > Islam and> > > > Muslims> > > > > need to> > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the> > earth.> > > Same> > > > result> > > > > may> > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People> > are> > > not> > > > born> > > > > with> > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they> > are> > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from> > > Pakistan> > > > early> > > > > this> > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a> > butcher,> > > but> > > > he> > > > > won't> > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a> > > school in> > > > his> > > > > > village". I think that says a lot> > about> > > the> > > > > situation> > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not> > appreciate> > > this> > > > because> > > > > for us> > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with> > them> > > if> > > > they> > > > > > don't have schools in their> > > village". > > > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term> > solution to> > > > terror> > > > > possible> > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming> > its> > > govt.> > > > Was> > > > > the> > > > > > might of America able to eradicate> > Al-Qaeda> > > by> > > > > crushing> > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the> > > situation> > > > become> > > > > worse> > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural> > > > complexities> > > > > of our> > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that> > were> > > > interviewed> > > > > in the> > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a> > Hindu.> > > The> > > > only> > > > > image> > > > > > that their education system has given> > them> > > of> > > > India is> > > > > that> > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation> > will> > > only> > > > > strengthen> > > > > > that image for them (and for us about> > them).> > > But> > > > I> > > > > agree> > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is> > not> > > the> > > > only> > > > > > effective solution - but it can> > probably> > > help in> > > > > improving> > > > > > the results of those surveys in each> > > other's> > > > > favour. If> > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat> > that> > > person,> > > > or> > > > > do you> > > > > > kill him so that his disease> > doesn't> > > afflict> > > > you.> > > > > > That's the choice we have to make.> > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is> > peace and> > > > > reconciliation> > > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > ,> > "Peace> > > > > Initiative"> > > > > >> > ,> > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009,> > 7:13> > > PM> > > > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > > > Have you come across this survey> > > published> > > > in a> > > > > > Pakistani> > > > > > > newspaper?> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/> > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of> > participants> > > in the> > > > > > Karachi-based> > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing> > and> > > said> > > > that> > > > > Islam> > > > > > and> > > > > > > other religions supported> > it."> > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent> > of all> > > > those> > > > > surveyed> > > > > > in> > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide> > bombing> > > was> > > > > acceptable> > > > > > in> > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and> > Lebanon."> > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably> > the> > > most> > > > > > cosmopolitan of> > > > > > > all Pak cities.> > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better> > than> > > me,so> > > > can> > > > > you> > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my> > assumption> > > that> > > > there> > > > > is> > > > > > > probably no other place in> > Pakistan> > > that can> > > > be> > > > > > expected to> > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in> > the> > > > questions> > > > > > polled.> > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant> > > > difference?> > > > > How do> > > > > > you> > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > Rahul> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is> > peace> > > and> > > > > > reconciliation an> > > > > > > illusion?> > > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > > ,> > > "Peace> > > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Cc:> > kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23,> > 2009,> > > 3:25 PM> > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in> > > response to> > > > an> > > > > HT> > > > > > article> > > > > > > > (copied at bottom):> > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha> > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your> > > write-up I> > > > am> > > > > > wondering if> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > is the same country which> > produced> > > > Gandhi,> > > > > Kabir,> > > > > > > Buddha and> > > > > > > > such non-violent people.> > While you> > > find> > > > the> > > > > job> > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > “peaceniks” futile and a> > waste> > > of> > > > time,> > > > > I> > > > > > found> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing.> > Today, a> > > > large> > > > > number> > > > > > of> > > > > > > people on> > > > > > > > both sides of the border are> > fed> > > up> > > > with> > > > > terror> > > > > > and> > > > > > > violence> > > > > > > > and are anxious for a> > workable> > > > solution. But> > > > > much> > > > > > of> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > essay is an extremely> > pessimistic> > > > attack on> > > > > such> > > > > > > people who> > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst> > into> > > > > productive and> > > > > > > positive> > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very> > intentions> > > of> > > > the> > > > > people> > > > > > who> > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you> > are> > > > proposing> > > > > that> > > > > > all> > > > > > > efforts> > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation> > and> > > the> > > > > > people-to-people> > > > > > > contact> > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be> > shut> > > and> > > > > replaced> > > > > > simply> > > > > > > by a> > > > > > > > cold “co-existence”, how> > > exactly do> > > > you> > > > > > define> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren’t we> > > co-existing> > > > right> > > > > now?> > > > > > How> > > > > > > can a> > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this> > co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab> > > parties> > > > > between> > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not> > serve> > > any> > > > > purpose, but> > > > > > I> > > > > > > found> > > > > > > > your statement that there are> > > actually> > > > no> > > > > > > commonalities> > > > > > > > between the culture of India> > and> > > > Pakistan> > > > > rather> > > > > > > juvenile.> > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should> > be> > > hostile> > > > to> > > > > each> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > because they are culturally> > > dissimilar,> > > > then> > > > > we> > > > > > should> > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > a million more partitions> > within> > > India> > > > due> > > > > to our> > > > > > > cultural> > > > > > > > differences.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace> > > activists> > > > of> > > > > the two> > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > have remained less effective> > so> > > far> > > > because> > > > > their> > > > > > > reach has> > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi,> > Amritsar or> > > > Lahore> > > > > only.> > > > > > If> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote> > places> > > such> > > > as> > > > > > Gorakhpur,> > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and> > Faisalabad,> > > and> > > > meet> > > > > the> > > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > > people, they’ll probably be> > able> > > to> > > > > understand> > > > > > each> > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > better and realize that not> > > everyone in> > > > > these> > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that> > there> > > is> > > > “an> > > > > > > irreparable> > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to> > bridge> > > it> > > > are> > > > > both> > > > > > > unrealistic> > > > > > > > and impossible”, I think> > the> > > divide> > > > has> > > > > been> > > > > > created> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > the governments and writers> > like> > > you.> > > > The> > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > people of> > > > > > > > the two countries are the> > only> > > ones who> > > > can> > > > > > bridge> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing> > such> > > > nonsense.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed> > > > > > > > New Delhi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in> > > India and> > > > > Pakistan> > > > > > who> > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace,> > > dialogue> > > > and> > > > > > > reconciliation)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We’re not all in it> > together> > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan> > Times> > > > > > > > January 22, 2009> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India> > and> > > Pakistan> > > > > > escalating,> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of> > > peace> > > > have> > > > > their> > > > > > hands> > > > > > > full.> > > > > > > > Irrespective of the> > > inappropriateness> > > > of> > > > > > marketing> > > > > > > peace at> > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to> > come> > > to> > > > terms> > > > > with> > > > > > 26/11,> > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are> > > overactive.> > > > Last> > > > > week> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed> > in> > > Amritsar> > > > with> > > > > a> > > > > > banner> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > friendship; another is> > invading> > > Delhi> > > > to> > > > > talk> > > > > > peace.> > > > > > > Worse> > > > > > > > still, their Indian> > counterparts> > > held> > > > > meetings to> > > > > > > ensure> > > > > > > > that their peace mission was> > a> > > roaring> > > > > success,> > > > > > apart> > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on> > Indian> > > soil.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit> > Pakistan> > > or> > > > they us,> > > > > they> > > > > > are> > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion.> > Both> > > make> > > > > endless> > > > > > > comparisons> > > > > > > > and list commonalities in> > food,> > > dress,> > > > > language,> > > > > > > culture and> > > > > > > > of course history.> > Politically> > > correct,> > > > but> > > > > > untrue> > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > there are distinct> > differences in> > > the> > > > > respective> > > > > > > cuisines,> > > > > > > > languages, festivals,> > customs,> > > rituals> > > > and> > > > > > religion.> > > > > > > What> > > > > > > > are common are the scars of> > > Partition> > > > and a> > > > > > > blood-stained> > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks> > > pretend> > > > do not> > > > > > exist as> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear> > hugs,> > > while> > > > > pining for> > > > > > a> > > > > > > no-visa> > > > > > > > regime. It’s all very well> > to> > > savour> > > > > kebabs and> > > > > > > hosting> > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch> > the> > > surface> > > > and> > > > > there> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that> > have> > > little> > > > chance> > > > > of> > > > > > > healing.> > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism> > and> > > > positions> > > > > > harden.> > > > > > > Then it> > > > > > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather> > than> > > > ‘you> > > > > and> > > > > > us’.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif> > Ali> > > > Zardari> > > > > tried to> > > > > > > charm> > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by> > saying> > > that> > > > > there is> > > > > > a> > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > bit of India in every> > Pakistani> > > and> > > > vice> > > > > versa,> > > > > > the> > > > > > > truth is> > > > > > > > that there is no love lost> > between> > > the> > > > two.> > > > > It is> > > > > > rare> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to> > a> > > > Pakistani.> > > > > However> > > > > > hard> > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away> > the> > > mutual> > > > > suspicion> > > > > > > sealed by> > > > > > > > history. There is an> > irreparable> > > divide> > > > and> > > > > > attempts> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > bridge it are both> > unrealistic and> > > > > impossible.> > > > > > > Marching to> > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light> > candles> > > for> > > > peace> > > > > is at> > > > > > best> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no> > tangible> > > > results.> > > > > In> > > > > > other> > > > > > > words, a> > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently> > when> > > an> > > > enraged> > > > > > Pranab> > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign> > > Minister,> > > > sheds> > > > > > diplomacy> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be> > faulted.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground> > reality, it> > > is> > > > time to> > > > > shed> > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get> > real,> > > and> > > > > abandon> > > > > > the> > > > > > > song and> > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We> > need to> > > be> > > > > brutally> > > > > > honest> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on> > peace> > > to> > > > > > co-existence. It> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and> > not> > > bonds> > > > of> > > > > history> > > > > > that> > > > > > > force> > > > > > > > us to live side by side.> > Replacing> > > > peace> > > > > with> > > > > > > co-existence> > > > > > > > will also help end the> > > > “like-mindedness”> > > > > > theory> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points> > in> > > place> > > > of> > > > > > non-workable> > > > > > > > alliances. It will end> > pretensions> > > > about> > > > > > camaraderie> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > help us face reality: however> > > hard,> > > > bitter> > > > > and> > > > > > brutal> > > > > > > it may> > > > > > > > be. Once minds are> > re-scripted, it> > > will> > > > be> > > > > much> > > > > > easier> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony> > > bordering> > > > on> > > > > > aggression.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and> > > there> > > > could be> > > > > a> > > > > > road> > > > > > > ahead;> > > > > > > > abandon the thought of> > jointly> > > treading> > > > the> > > > > path> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > solutions could be on the> > anvil.> > > But> > > > break> > > > > bread> > > > > > > together> > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter> > because> > > > despite the> > > > > > kebabs> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a> > > volatile> > > > > Indo-Pak> > > > > > border> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > the order of the day.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would> > be> > > the> > > > > peaceniks.> > > > > > Not> > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > will they be out of work but> > will> > > be> > > > > unwilling to> > > > > > > accept> > > > > > > > that what they have been> > marketing> > > all> > > > these> > > > > > years is> > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > illusion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________> > > > > > > > reader-list: an open> > discussion> > > list on> > > > > media and> > > > > > the> > > > > > > city.> > > > > > > > Critiques &> > Collaborations> > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email> > to> > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net> > with> > > > subscribe> > > > > in> > > > > > the> > > > > > > subject> > > > > > > > header.> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe:> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 05:24:47 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:54:47 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Radio Taliban: Pakistan- Kashmir being repeated in Swat... In-Reply-To: <3FDE5082-A395-4134-918A-1A0CF777EBBF@earthlink.net> References: <3FDE5082-A395-4134-918A-1A0CF777EBBF@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Somewhat similar & even worst was done in what once used to be a beautiful Kashmir valley too in 1989-90. Albeit, the dictats were issued from the loudspeakers of the mosques or through notices posted on the walls of the mosques,electrical poles or on the victims' houses while the motivation came from the POK radio. 'UnIslamic' Kashmiriyat was dumped overnight. While 'Infidel' Kashmiri Hindu Pandits after their ethnic cleansing in the valley then continue to live as refugees in their own country ,hundreds of Kashmiri Muslim mothers ,widows & orphans have lost their loved ones who were indoctrinated ,trained, armed in Pakistan & pushed back in to Kashmir to wage a war against the 'infidels'. Time for the world community to take cognizance of the menace of pan Islamism inspired terror & separatism..... Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> From: anansi1 at earthlink.net> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:04:37 -0500> Subject: [Reader-list] Radio Taliban: Pakistan> > A different web 2.0> > Paul> > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/asia/25swat.html?_r=1&hp> > PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Every night around 8 o’clock, the terrified > residents of Swat, a lush and picturesque valley a hundred miles from > three of Pakistan’s most important cities, crowd around their radios. > They know that failure to listen and learn might lead to a lashing — > or a beheading.> > Hundreds gathered Jan. 11 in Swat to watch drug dealers punished. The > Taliban also have made it a crime to shave a beard.> > Using a portable radio transmitter, a local Taliban leader, Shah > Doran, on most nights outlines newly proscribed “un-Islamic” > activities in Swat, like selling DVDs, watching cable television, > singing and dancing, criticizing the Taliban, shaving beards and > allowing girls to attend school. He also reveals names of people the > Taliban have killed for violating their decrees — and those they plan > to kill.> > “They control everything through the radio,” said one Swat resident, > who declined to give his name for fear the Taliban might kill him. > “Everyone waits for the broadcast.”> > International attention remains fixed on the Taliban’s hold on > Pakistan’s semiautonomous tribal areas, from where they launch attacks > on American forces in Afghanistan. But for Pakistan, the loss of the > Swat Valley could prove just as devastating.> > Unlike the fringe tribal areas, Swat, a Delaware-size chunk of > territory with 1.3 million residents and a rich cultural history, is > part of Pakistan proper, within reach of Peshawar, Rawalpindi and > Islamabad, the capital.> > After more than a year of fighting, virtually all of it is now under > Taliban control, marking the militants’ farthest advance eastward into > Pakistan’s so-called settled areas, residents and government officials > from the region say.> > With the increasing consolidation of their power, the Taliban have > taken a sizable bite out of the nation. And they are enforcing a > strict interpretation of Islam with cruelty, bringing public > beheadings, assassinations, social and cultural repression and > persecution of women to what was once an independent, relatively > secular region, dotted with ski resorts and fruit orchards and known > for its dancing girls.> > Last year, 70 police officers were beheaded, shot or otherwise slain > in Swat, and 150 wounded, said Malik Naveed Khan, the police inspector > general for the North-West Frontier Province.> > The police have become so afraid that many officers have put > advertisements in newspapers renouncing their jobs so the Taliban will > not kill them.> > One who stayed on the job was Farooq Khan, a midlevel officer in > Mingora, the valley’s largest city, where decapitated bodies of > policemen and other victims routinely surface. Last month, he was > shopping there when two men on a motorcycle sprayed him with gunfire, > killing him in broad daylight.> > “He always said, ‘I have to stay here and defend our home,’ ” recalled > his brother, Wajid Ali Khan, a Swat native and the province’s minister > for environment, as he passed around a cellphone with Farooq’s picture.> > In the view of analysts, the growing nightmare in Swat is a capsule of > the country’s problems: an ineffectual and unresponsive civilian > government, coupled with military and security forces that, in the > view of furious residents, have willingly allowed the militants to > spread terror deep into Pakistan.> > The crisis has become a critical test for the government of the > civilian president, Asif Ali Zardari, and for a security apparatus > whose loyalties, many Pakistanis say, remain in question.> > Seeking to deflect blame, Mr. Zardari’s government recently criticized > “earlier halfhearted attempts at rooting out extremists from the area” > and vowed to fight militants “who are ruthlessly murdering and maiming > our citizens.”> > But as pressure grows, he has also said in recent days that the > government would be willing to talk with militants who accept its > authority. Such negotiations would carry serious risks: security > officials say a brief peace deal in Swat last spring was a spectacular > failure that allowed militants to tighten their hold and take revenge > on people who had supported the military.> > Without more forceful and concerted action by the government, some > warn, the Taliban threat in Pakistan is bound to spread.> > “The crux of the problem is the government appears divided about what > to do,” said Mahmood Shah, a retired Pakistani Army brigadier who > until 2006 was in charge of security in the western tribal areas. > “This disconnect among the political leadership has emboldened the > militants.”> From 2,000 to 4,000 Taliban fighters now roam the Swat Valley, > according to interviews with a half-dozen senior Pakistani government, > military and political officials involved in the fight. By contrast, > the Pakistani military has four brigades with 12,000 to 15,000 men in > Swat, officials say.> > The Taliban are thought to be responsible for the killing of a popular > Swat Valley dancing girl, Shabana, whose body, above, was found Jan. 2 > in Mingora. The Taliban have made gains in the strategic region, in > part by meting out harsh punishments.> > > But the soldiers largely stay inside their camps, unwilling to patrol > or exert any large presence that might provoke — or discourage — the > militants, Swat residents and political leaders say. The military also > has not raided a small village that locals say is widely known as the > Taliban’s headquarters in Swat.> > Nor have troops destroyed mobile radio transmitters mounted on > motorcycles or pickup trucks that Shah Doran and the leader of the > Taliban in Swat, Maulana Fazlullah, have expertly used to terrify > residents.> > Being named in one of the nightly broadcasts often leaves just two > options: fleeing Swat, or turning up headless and dumped in a village > square.> > When the army does act, its near-total lack of preparedness to fight a > counterinsurgency reveals itself. Its usual tactic is to lob artillery > shells into a general area, and the results have seemed to hurt > civilians more than the militants, residents say.> > In some parts of Pakistan, civilian militias have risen to fight the > Taliban. But in Swat, the Taliban’s gains amid a large army presence > has convinced many that the military must be conspiring with the > Taliban.> > “It’s very mysterious how they get so much weapons and support,” while > nearby districts are comparatively calm, said Muzaffar ul-Mulk Khan, a > member of Parliament from Swat, who said his home near Mingora was > recently destroyed by the Taliban.> > “We are bewildered by the military. They patrol only in Mingora. In > the rest of Swat they sit in their bases. And the militants can kill > at will anywhere in Mingora,” he said.> > “Nothing is being done by the government," Mr. Khan added.> > Accusations that the military lacks the will to fight in Swat are > “very unfair and unjustified,” said Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, the chief > military spokesman, who said 180 army soldiers and officers had been > killed in Swat in the past 14 months.> > “They do reach out, and they do patrol,” he said.> > Military officials also say they are trying to step up activity in Swat.> > General Abbas said the military did not have the means to block > Taliban radio transmissions across such a wide area, but he disputed > the view that Mingora had fallen to the militants.> > “Just because they come out at night and throw down four or five > bodies in the square does not mean that militants control anything,” > he said.> > Few officials would dispute that one of the Pakistani military’s > biggest mistakes in Swat was its failure to protect Pir Samiullah, a > local leader whose 500 followers fought the Taliban in the village of > Mandal Dag. After the Taliban killed him in a firefight last month, > the militants demanded that his followers reveal his gravesite — and > then started beheading people until they got the information, one > Mandal Dag villager said.> > “They dug him up and hung his body in the square,” the villager said, > and then they took the body to a secret location. The desecration was > intended to show what would happen to anyone who defied the Taliban’s > rule, but it also made painfully clear to Swat residents that the > Pakistani government could not be trusted to defend those who rose up > against the militants.> > “He should have been given more protection,” said one Pakistani > security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the > delicacy of the subject. “He should have been made a symbol of > resistance.”> > Gruesome displays like the defilement of Pir Samiullah’s remains are > an effective tactic for the Taliban, who have shown cruel efficiency > in following through on their threats.> > Recently, Shah Doran broadcast word that the Taliban intended to kill > a police officer who he said had killed three people.> > “We have sent people, and tomorrow you will have good news,” he said > on his nightly broadcast, according to a resident of Matta, a Taliban > stronghold. The next day the decapitated body of the policeman was > found in a nearby village.> > Even in Mingora, a town grown hardened to violence, residents were > shocked early this month to find the bullet-ridden body of one of the > city’s most famous dancing girls splayed on the main square.> > Known as Shabana, the woman was visited at night by a group of men who > claimed to want to hire her for a party. They shot her to death and > dragged her body more than a quarter-mile to the central square, > leaving it as a warning for anyone who would flout Taliban decrees.> > The leader of the militants in Swat, Maulana Fazlullah, gained > prominence from making radio broadcasts and running an Islamic school, > becoming popular among otherwise isolated homemakers and inspiring > them to sell their jewelry to finance his operation. He also drew > support from his marriage to the daughter of Sufi Mohammed, a powerful > religious leader in Swat until 2001 who later disowned his son-in-law.> > Even though Swat does not border Afghanistan or any of Pakistan’s > seven lawless federal tribal areas, Maulana Fazlullah eventually > allied with Taliban militants who dominate regions along the Afghan > frontier.> > His fighters now roam the valley with sniper rifles, Kalashnikovs, > rocket-propelled grenade launchers, mortar tubes and, according to > some officials, night-vision goggles and flak vests.> > His latest tactic is a ban on girls’ attending school in Swat, which > will be tested in February when private schools are scheduled to > reopen after winter recess. The Taliban have already destroyed 169 > girls’ schools in Swat, government officials say, and they expect most > private schools to stay closed rather than risk retaliation.> > “The local population is totally fed up, and if they had the chance > they would lynch each and every Talib,” said Mr. Naveed Khan, the > police official. “But the Taliban are so cruel and violent, no one > will oppose them. If this is not stopped, it will spill into other > areas of Pakistan.”> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner! Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 06:02:01 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:32:01 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?India=92s_stealth_lobbying?= In-Reply-To: <5c5369880901232129k381d26bcn7d6c0f7f662b451@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c5369880901232129k381d26bcn7d6c0f7f662b451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Stealth or otherwise , it should'nt bother Indians.......or should it some....??....LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:59:39 +0530> From: kaksanjay at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] India’s stealth lobbying> > India's stealth lobbying against Holbrooke's brief> Fri, 01/23/2009 - 7:12pm> > http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/01/23/india_s_stealth_lobbying_against_holbrooke> > When Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- flanked by President Obama> -- introduced Richard Holbrooke as the formidable new U.S. envoy to> South Asia at a State Department ceremony on Thursday, India was> noticeably absent from his title.> > Holbrooke, the veteran negotiator of the Dayton accords and> sharp-elbowed foreign policy hand who has long advised Clinton, was> officially named "special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan"> in what was meant to be one of the signature foreign policy acts of> Obama's first week in office.> > But the omission of India from his title, and from Clinton's official> remarks introducing the new diplomatic push in the region was no> accident -- not to mention a sharp departure from Obama's own> previously stated approach of engaging India, as well as Pakistan and> Afghanistan, in a regional dialogue. Multiple sources told The Cable> that India vigorously -- and successfully -- lobbied the Obama> transition team to make sure that neither India nor Kashmir was> included in Holbrooke's official brief.> > "When the Indian government learned Holbrooke was going to do> [Pakistan]-India, they swung into action and lobbied to have India> excluded from his purview," relayed one source. "And they succeeded.> Holbrooke's account officially does not include India."> > To many Washington South Asia experts, the decision to not include> India or Kashmir in the official Terms of Reference of Holbrooke's> mandate was not just appropriate, but absolutely necessary. Given> India's fierce, decades-long resistance to any internationalization of> the Kashmir dispute, to have done so would have been a non-starter for> India, and guaranteed failure before the envoy mission had begun,> several suggested.> > "Leaving India out of the title actually opens up [Holbrooke's]> freedom to talk to them," argued Philip Zelikow, a former counselor to> Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who served until December as a> consultant for a lobbying firm, BGR, retained by the Indian> Government.> > But to others -- including Obama himself, who proposed a special envoy> to deal with Kashmir during the campaign -- the region's security> challenges cannot be solved without including India. Obama told Time's> Joe Klein, that working with Pakistan and India to try to resolve> their Kashmir conflict would be a critical task for his> administration's efforts to try to counter growing instability in> Afghanistan and Pakistan. "Kashmir in particular is an interesting> situation where that is obviously a potential tar pit diplomatically,"> Obama told Klein. "But, for us to devote serious diplomatic resources> to get a special envoy in there, to figure out a plausible approach,> and essentially make the argument to the Indians, you guys are on the> brink of being an economic superpower, why do you want to keep on> messing with this? ... I think there is a moment where potentially we> could get their attention. It won't be easy, but it's important."> Obama also suggested in the interview that he had discussed the> special envoy idea with former President Bill Clinton.> > Whatever the case, the evidence that India was able to successfully> lobby the Obama transition in the weeks before it took office to> ensure Holbrooke's mission left them and Kashmir out is testament to> both the sensitivity of the issue to India as well as the prowess and> sophistication of its Washington political and lobbying operation.> > "The Indians freaked out at talk of Bill Clinton being an envoy to> Kashmir," said Daniel Markey, a South Asia expert at the Council on> Foreign Relations. "The reason they were so worried is they don't want> their activities in Kashmir to be equated with what Pakistan is doing> in Afghanistan."> > "They [India] are the big fish [in the region]," Markey added. "They> don't want to be grouped with the 'problem children' in the region, on> Kashmir, on nuclear issues. They have a fairly effective lobbying> machine. They have taken a lot of notes on the Israel model, and they> have gotten better. But you don't want to overstate it. Some of the> lobbying effort is obvious, done through companies, but a lot of it is> direct government to government contact, people talking to each other.> The Indian government and those around the Indian government made> clear through a variety of channels because of the Clinton rumors and> they came out to quickly shoot that down."> > Once Holbrooke's name was floated, the Indian lobbying campaign became> even more intense. "The Indians do not like Holbrooke because he has> been very good on Pakistan... and has a very good feel for the place"> said one former U.S. official on condition of anonymity. "The Indians> have this town down."> > Initially, when Obama's plans for a corps of special envoys became> public after the election, The Cable was told, the idea was for a> senior diplomat to tackle the Kashmir dispute as part of the South> Asia envoy portfolio and whose mandate would include India. But soon> after the election and Holbrooke's name began to appear, the Indians> approached key transition officials to make clear that while they> could not affect what the new administration did with respect to> envoys, that they would expect no mediation on the Kashmir issue.> > "I have suggested to others, though not directly to Dick [Holbrooke],> that his title should not/not include India, precisely so that he> would be freer to work with them," Zelikow said. "If you understand> Indian politics, this paradox makes sense."> > "I did nothing for the [Government of India] on this," Zelikow added.> The Indian government "talked directly to folks on the [Obama]> transition team and I heard about it from my Indian friends. I think> Holbrooke needs to talk to the Indians. But they are trying,> understandably, to break out of being in a hyphenated relationship> with America (i.e., comprehended on a mental map called> India-Pakistan)."> > Other sources said India's hired lobbyists were deployed to shape the> contours of the U.S. diplomatic mission. According to lobbying records> filed with the Department of Justice, since 2005, the government of> India has paid BGR about $2.5 million. BGR officials who currently> work on the Indian account, who according to lobbying records include> former Sen. Chuck Hagel aide Andrew Parasiliti, former U.S. State> Department counterproliferation official Stephen Rademaker, former> Bush I and Reagan era White House aide and BGR partner Ed Rogers, and> former House Foreign Affairs committee staffer Walker Roberts, did not> respond to messages left Friday by Foreign Policy. Former U.S.> ambassador to India Robert Blackwill, who previously served as a> lobbyist for India, left BGR in 2008 for the Rand Corporation. In> addition, the Indian embassy in Washington has paid lobbying firm> Patton Boggs $291,665 under a six-month contract that took effect Aug.> 18, according to lobbying records.> > "BGR has been a registered lobbyist for the Indian government since> 2005," noted one Senate staffer on condition of anonymity. "The Indian> government retained BGR for the primary purpose of pushing through the> Congress the civil nuclear cooperation agreement between the United> States and India - hence the strategic hires of Bob Blackwill, the> former U.S. Ambassador to India, and Walker Roberts, a senior staffer> on the House Foreign Affairs Committee responsible for vetting past> such agreements. BGR continues to actively lobby on behalf of the> Indian government - their lobbyists sought to influence a recent> Senate resolution on the Mumbai attacks. So I would be very surprised> if BGR were NOT involved here."> > (For its part, Pakistan has spent about $1,175,000, on lobbying during> the past year, including on trade issues. That includes Dewey and> LeBoeuf's work for the Ministry of Commerce, and Locke Lord's work for> the Embassy of Pakistan and the Pakistan International Airlines Corp,> according to lobbying records.)> > It's not clear to experts and officials interviewed exactly who in the> Obama transition team was contacted as part of the Indian lobbying> effort. The White House did not respond to queries.> > Asked about the decision to exclude India from the special envoy's> official mandate, former NSC and CIA official Bruce Riedel, who served> as the senior lead of the team advising the Obama campaign on South> Asian issues, said by e-mail, "When Senator Clinton originally> proposed the envoy idea in her campaign it was only for Afghanistan> and Pakistan." He didn't respond to a further query questioning why> Clinton's campaign comments on the issue mattered as much as Obama's,> since, obviously, it was Obama who won the presidency and ultimately> appointed her to carry out his foreign policy as the Obama> administration's top diplomat.> > Laura Rozen> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner! Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From notification+off26yoy at facebookmail.com Mon Jan 26 08:15:58 2009 From: notification+off26yoy at facebookmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:45:58 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] UC@Kolkata Book Fair Message-ID: <0c663bb3f96fa301e33091d918b4489a@localhost.localdomain> Gargi sent a message on Facebook. Hi!, We will be at the stall no 23 with the Left Word Books. See you there. Gargi To reply to this message, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=794110415&k=6XF56553V3YMXCL1TC2TU From explore at prashant.ca Mon Jan 26 08:29:45 2009 From: explore at prashant.ca (Prashant Kadam) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:59:45 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? In-Reply-To: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <73DB5741-6132-4CA9-AAAC-9CEDF9B7E39F@prashant.ca> And if one goes by your logic, Muslims are not subalterns? Prashant On 25-Jan-09, at 12:32 PM, prabhat kumar wrote: > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by > Prasant imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but > fails to perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims > in this nationalist song of Bharat Kumar! > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, > wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing) > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 > From: Navayana Publishing > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... > To: sarai list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern > > PRASHANT KADAM > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be > heard yet > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song > celebrates > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from the film > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street > corners to > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again this > January > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by > Manoj Kumar > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its > natural > resources and its leaders. > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, > khilate hain > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese hain > chaman ke > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal > bahaadoor > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar se > (In these > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, Subhash, > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour green > stands > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is > drawn from > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various levels, I > shall > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few > facts have > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the discourse of > the > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri Goswami > in > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and > displacement in > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric writer, > Gulshan > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar > background. > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. The > point > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while > envisioning > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his team > were > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. > > New colour > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it > superimposes > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the Buddha. > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin who > openly > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful negotiations, > also > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is the > invoking > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain > laal > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a > relatively > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur > Shastri). > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The > mention of Lal > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact that > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His inclusion > perhaps > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he been > slipped > in here? > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian tricolour > with > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non- > existent red > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song > systematically > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — with > certain > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark blue > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not > only does > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also the > 24 arcs > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its central > place in > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, when > it > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the Dhamma > Chakra's > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with this > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, Dr. > B.R. > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The man > who > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually > unknown > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on his > name. > > Ample liberties > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in the > flag > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the Indian > National > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has to be > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted from the > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or > regional > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such as > love, > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" song > takes > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an unbalanced > choice > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the absence > of women > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is > symbolic and > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song and > its > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation of > images > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have limited > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the > inaudibility > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere Desh > ki > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, we > must hear > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its ambiguous > erasures. > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies at York > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca > > www.navayana.org > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for us. > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held > responsible for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad > because of the govt., the garbage is piling up on the street because > of the government, and so on. We are trying to find simple solutions > for complex problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or > Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than more > violence. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > Dear Yousuf, > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > > go through this link. > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > > University of Maryland." > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > > > Thank you > > Rahul > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > Dear Rahul > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > > be > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > there is > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > > as a > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > > in the > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > > some > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > > the > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > preaching > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > opportunity to > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > realize > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > > their > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > controlled in > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > everyone > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > survey was > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > population of > > > lakhs. > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Peace > > Initiative" > > > , > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > > equal > > > number > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > > eradicated > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > I agree. > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > terror > > > > possible > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > govt." > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > advocating > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > should not > > > be > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > flourish > > > and > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > > flops on > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > statements > > > related > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > > they are > > > in > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > flourishing > > > with > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > > that > > > person, > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > doesn't > > > afflict > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > mail.Contrary to > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > person > > > does > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > > accept > > > the > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > > while > > > the > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > > of > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > > I > > > have > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > > would > > > not > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > supporting > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > > the > > > way > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > > what > > > it has > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > > the > > > money > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > > eradicate > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > > people in > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > > and > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > > hand,while all > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > > from the > > > US. > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > > unless and > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > army.Its > > > just > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > warmongers.But > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > > insisting on > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > > us > > > closer > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > , > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > > be > > > true - > > > > I > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > > survey in > > > > India, > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > > Muslims > > > > need to > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > > Same > > > result > > > > may > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > > not > > > born > > > > with > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > Pakistan > > > early > > > > this > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > > but > > > he > > > > won't > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > school in > > > his > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > > the > > > > situation > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > > this > > > because > > > > for us > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > > if > > > they > > > > > don't have schools in their > > village". > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > terror > > > > possible > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > govt. > > > Was > > > > the > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > > by > > > > crushing > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > situation > > > become > > > > worse > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > complexities > > > > of our > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > > interviewed > > > > in the > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > > The > > > only > > > > image > > > > > that their education system has given them > > of > > > India is > > > > that > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > > only > > > > strengthen > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > > But > > > I > > > > agree > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > > the > > > only > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > > help in > > > > improving > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > other's > > > > favour. If > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > person, > > > or > > > > do you > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > > afflict > > > you. > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > , > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > > PM > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > published > > > in a > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > > in the > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > > said > > > that > > > > Islam > > > > > and > > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > > those > > > > surveyed > > > > > in > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > > was > > > > acceptable > > > > > in > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > > most > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > > me,so > > > can > > > > you > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > > that > > > there > > > > is > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > > that can > > > be > > > > > expected to > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > > questions > > > > > polled. > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > difference? > > > > How do > > > > > you > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > > and > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , > > "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > response to > > > an > > > > HT > > > > > article > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > write-up I > > > am > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > this > > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > > Gandhi, > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > > find > > > the > > > > job > > > > > of the > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste > > of > > > time, > > > > I > > > > > found > > > > > > your > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > > large > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > > up > > > with > > > > terror > > > > > and > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > > solution. But > > > > much > > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > > attack on > > > > such > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > > productive and > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > > of > > > the > > > > people > > > > > who > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > > proposing > > > > that > > > > > all > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > > the > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > > and > > > > replaced > > > > > simply > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how > > exactly do > > > you > > > > > define > > > > > > this > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we > > co-existing > > > right > > > > now? > > > > > How > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > parties > > > > between > > > > > Indian > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > > any > > > > purpose, but > > > > > I > > > > > > found > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > actually > > > no > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > > Pakistan > > > > rather > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > > hostile > > > to > > > > each > > > > > other > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > dissimilar, > > > then > > > > we > > > > > should > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a million more partitions within > > India > > > due > > > > to our > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > activists > > > of > > > > the two > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > have remained less effective so > > far > > > because > > > > their > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > > Lahore > > > > only. > > > > > If > > > > > > they > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > > such > > > as > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > > and > > > meet > > > > the > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able > > to > > > > understand > > > > > each > > > > > > other > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > everyone in > > > > these > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > > is > > > "an > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > > it > > > are > > > > both > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the > > divide > > > has > > > > been > > > > > created > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the governments and writers like > > you. > > > The > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > the two countries are the only > > ones who > > > can > > > > > bridge > > > > > > this > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > India and > > > > Pakistan > > > > > who > > > > > > will > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > dialogue > > > and > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > > Pakistan > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > peace > > > have > > > > their > > > > > hands > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > inappropriateness > > > of > > > > > marketing > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > > to > > > terms > > > > with > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > overactive. > > > Last > > > > week > > > > > a > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > > Amritsar > > > with > > > > a > > > > > banner > > > > > > of > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > > Delhi > > > to > > > > talk > > > > > peace. > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > > held > > > > meetings to > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > > roaring > > > > success, > > > > > apart > > > > > > from > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > > or > > > they us, > > > > they > > > > > are > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > > make > > > > endless > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > > dress, > > > > language, > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > of course history. Politically > > correct, > > > but > > > > > untrue > > > > > > because > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > > the > > > > respective > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > > rituals > > > and > > > > > religion. > > > > > > What > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > Partition > > > and a > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > pretend > > > do not > > > > > exist as > > > > > > they > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > > while > > > > pining for > > > > > a > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to > > savour > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > > surface > > > and > > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > > little > > > chance > > > > of > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > > positions > > > > > harden. > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > > 'you > > > > and > > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > > Zardari > > > > tried to > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > > that > > > > there is > > > > > a > > > > > > little > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > > and > > > vice > > > > versa, > > > > > the > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > > the > > > two. > > > > It is > > > > > rare > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > > Pakistani. > > > > However > > > > > hard > > > > > > we > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > > mutual > > > > suspicion > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > > divide > > > and > > > > > attempts > > > > > > to > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > > impossible. > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > > for > > > peace > > > > is at > > > > > best > > > > > > a > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > > results. > > > > In > > > > > other > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > > an > > > enraged > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign > > Minister, > > > sheds > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > and > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > > is > > > time to > > > > shed > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > > and > > > > abandon > > > > > the > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > > be > > > > brutally > > > > > honest > > > > > > and > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > > to > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > > bonds > > > of > > > > history > > > > > that > > > > > > force > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > > peace > > > > with > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > "like-mindedness" > > > > > theory > > > > > > and > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > > place > > > of > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > > about > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > and > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > hard, > > > bitter > > > > and > > > > > brutal > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > > will > > > be > > > > much > > > > > easier > > > > > > to > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > bordering > > > on > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > there > > > could be > > > > a > > > > > road > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > > treading > > > the > > > > path > > > > > and > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > > But > > > break > > > > bread > > > > > > together > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > > despite the > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > and > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > volatile > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > border > > > > > > are > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > > the > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > Not > > > > > > only > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > > be > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > > all > > > these > > > > > years is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > list on > > > > media and > > > > > the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93 > ******************************************* > > > > -- > Prabhat Kumar > Ph.D. Student, > Department of History, > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From explore at prashant.ca Mon Jan 26 08:30:26 2009 From: explore at prashant.ca (Prashant Kadam) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:00:26 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? In-Reply-To: References: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7D1741DD-D5DD-4ED5-A2D0-83859945A859@prashant.ca> And what is perhaps more preposterous is it took 32 years for somebody to at least talk about such misrepresentations. And yes this is not the only song played on the national days, there are a dozen others and most have followed the same rhetoric of excluding the marginalized. Just because Manoj Kumar made "legendary films" does not qualify him (or for that matter anybody) for exemption from critical scrutiny. Two wrongs don't make a right. No questions of "certification" or "banning the film" were addressed in my article, unless you are imagining things. It is not surprising to read such "lay" comments, people who have no sense of film/media theory are bound to make such errors. If you can, at least try to write some constructive criticism the next time you write or is it too much to ask for? Talking of banning films, try finding out who tried to ban and ransack theaters when Fire, Fanaa etc. were released. Prashant On 25-Jan-09, at 4:36 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification > from.......????..... > > It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only > song that is played on the national days. > Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the > film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat > Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab > Pashchim) is preposterous. > Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who > knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the > movie itself . > Regards all > LA > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:32:01 +0100 > > From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com > > To: reader-list at sarai.net; explore at prashant.ca > > Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? > > > > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by > Prasant > > imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but fails to > > perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims in this > > nationalist song of Bharat Kumar! > > > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, > wrote: > > > > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > > > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing) > > > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf) > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 > > > From: Navayana Publishing > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... > > > To: sarai list > > > Message-ID: > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm > > > > > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern > > > > > > PRASHANT KADAM > > > > > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be > heard yet > > > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song > > > celebrates > > > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. > > > > > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from > the film > > > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street > corners to > > > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again > this January > > > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by > Manoj > > > Kumar > > > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its > natural > > > resources and its leaders. > > > > > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, > khilate > > > hain > > > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese > hain chaman > > > ke > > > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain > laal bahaadoor > > > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar > se (In these > > > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, > Subhash, > > > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour > green stands > > > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is > drawn from > > > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) > > > > > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various > levels, I shall > > > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few > facts have > > > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the > discourse of the > > > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri > Goswami in > > > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and > displacement > > > in > > > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric > writer, Gulshan > > > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar > background. > > > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. > The point > > > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while > > > envisioning > > > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his > team were > > > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. > > > > > > New colour > > > > > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it > superimposes > > > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the > Buddha. > > > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin > who openly > > > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful > negotiations, also > > > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is > the invoking > > > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal > hain laal > > > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a > relatively > > > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur > Shastri). > > > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The > mention of > > > Lal > > > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact > that > > > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His > inclusion perhaps > > > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he > been slipped > > > in here? > > > > > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian > tricolour with > > > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non- > existent red > > > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song > > > systematically > > > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — > with > > > certain > > > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark > blue > > > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not > only does > > > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also > the 24 > > > arcs > > > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its > central place in > > > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, > when it > > > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the > Dhamma Chakra's > > > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with > this > > > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, > Dr. B.R. > > > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The > man who > > > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually > unknown > > > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on > his name. > > > > > > Ample liberties > > > > > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in > the flag > > > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the > Indian National > > > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has > to be > > > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted > from the > > > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or > regional > > > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such > as love, > > > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" > song takes > > > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an > unbalanced choice > > > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. > > > > > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the > absence of women > > > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is > symbolic and > > > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song > and its > > > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation > of images > > > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have > limited > > > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the > inaudibility > > > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere > Desh ki > > > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. > > > > > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, > we must hear > > > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its > ambiguous erasures. > > > > > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies > at York > > > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca > > > > > > www.navayana.org > > > > > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special > discounts! > > > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > illusion? > > > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for > us. > > > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held > responsible > > > for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because > of the govt., > > > the garbage is piling up on the street because of the > government, and so on. > > > We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any > way, I am > > > not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer > > > reconciliation rather than more violence. > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > > > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > > > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > > > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > > > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > > > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > > > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > > > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > > > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > > > > go through this link. > > > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > > > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > > > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > > > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > > > > University of Maryland." > > > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > > > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > > > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > > > > be > > > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > > > there is > > > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > > > > as a > > > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > > > > in the > > > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > > > > some > > > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > > > > the > > > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > > > preaching > > > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > > > opportunity to > > > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > > > realize > > > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > > > > their > > > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > > > controlled in > > > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > > > everyone > > > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > > > survey was > > > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > > > population of > > > > > lakhs. > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > , > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > > > > equal > > > > > number > > > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > > > > eradicated > > > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > > terror > > > > > > possible > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > > govt." > > > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > > > advocating > > > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > > > should not > > > > > be > > > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > > > flourish > > > > > and > > > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > > > > flops on > > > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > > > statements > > > > > related > > > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > > > > they are > > > > > in > > > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > > > flourishing > > > > > with > > > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > > > > that > > > > > person, > > > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > > > doesn't > > > > > afflict > > > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > > > mail.Contrary to > > > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > > > person > > > > > does > > > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > > > > accept > > > > > the > > > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > > > > while > > > > > the > > > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > > > > of > > > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > > > > I > > > > > have > > > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > > > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > > > supporting > > > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > > > > the > > > > > way > > > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > > > > what > > > > > it has > > > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > > > > the > > > > > money > > > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > > > > eradicate > > > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > > > > people in > > > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > > > > and > > > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > > > > hand,while all > > > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > > > > from the > > > > > US. > > > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > > > > unless and > > > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > > > army.Its > > > > > just > > > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > > > warmongers.But > > > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > > > > insisting on > > > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > > > > us > > > > > closer > > > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > , > > > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > > > > be > > > > > true - > > > > > > I > > > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > > > > survey in > > > > > > India, > > > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > > > > Muslims > > > > > > need to > > > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > > > > Same > > > > > result > > > > > > may > > > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > > > > not > > > > > born > > > > > > with > > > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > > > Pakistan > > > > > early > > > > > > this > > > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > > > > but > > > > > he > > > > > > won't > > > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > > > school in > > > > > his > > > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > > > > the > > > > > > situation > > > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > > > > this > > > > > because > > > > > > for us > > > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > > > > if > > > > > they > > > > > > > don't have schools in their > > > > village". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > > terror > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > govt. > > > > > Was > > > > > > the > > > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > > > > by > > > > > > crushing > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > > > situation > > > > > become > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > > > complexities > > > > > > of our > > > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > > > > interviewed > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > > > > The > > > > > only > > > > > > image > > > > > > > that their education system has given them > > > > of > > > > > India is > > > > > > that > > > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > > > > only > > > > > > strengthen > > > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > > > > But > > > > > I > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > > > > the > > > > > only > > > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > > > > help in > > > > > > improving > > > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > > > other's > > > > > > favour. If > > > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > > > person, > > > > > or > > > > > > do you > > > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > > > > afflict > > > > > you. > > > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > , > > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > > > published > > > > > in a > > > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > > > > in the > > > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > > > > said > > > > > that > > > > > > Islam > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > > > > those > > > > > > surveyed > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > > > > was > > > > > > acceptable > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > > > > most > > > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > > > > me,so > > > > > can > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > > > > that > > > > > there > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > > > > that can > > > > > be > > > > > > > expected to > > > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > > > > questions > > > > > > > polled. > > > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > > > difference? > > > > > > How do > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > > > > and > > > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > , > > > > "Peace > > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > > > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > > > response to > > > > > an > > > > > > HT > > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > > > write-up I > > > > > am > > > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > > > > Gandhi, > > > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > > > > find > > > > > the > > > > > > job > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste > > > > of > > > > > time, > > > > > > I > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > > > > large > > > > > > number > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > > > > up > > > > > with > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > > > > solution. But > > > > > > much > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > > > > attack on > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > > > > productive and > > > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > people > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > > > > proposing > > > > > > that > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > > > > the > > > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > > > > and > > > > > > replaced > > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how > > > > exactly do > > > > > you > > > > > > > define > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we > > > > co-existing > > > > > right > > > > > > now? > > > > > > > How > > > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > > > parties > > > > > > between > > > > > > > Indian > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > > > > any > > > > > > purpose, but > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > > > actually > > > > > no > > > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > > > > hostile > > > > > to > > > > > > each > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > > > dissimilar, > > > > > then > > > > > > we > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > a million more partitions within > > > > India > > > > > due > > > > > > to our > > > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > > > activists > > > > > of > > > > > > the two > > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > > have remained less effective so > > > > far > > > > > because > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > > > > Lahore > > > > > > only. > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > > > > such > > > > > as > > > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > > > > and > > > > > meet > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able > > > > to > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > > > everyone in > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > > > > is > > > > > "an > > > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > > > > it > > > > > are > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the > > > > divide > > > > > has > > > > > > been > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > the governments and writers like > > > > you. > > > > > The > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > > > the two countries are the only > > > > ones who > > > > > can > > > > > > > bridge > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > > > India and > > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > > > dialogue > > > > > and > > > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > > > peace > > > > > have > > > > > > their > > > > > > > hands > > > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > > > inappropriateness > > > > > of > > > > > > > marketing > > > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > > > > to > > > > > terms > > > > > > with > > > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > > > overactive. > > > > > Last > > > > > > week > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > > > > Amritsar > > > > > with > > > > > > a > > > > > > > banner > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > > > > Delhi > > > > > to > > > > > > talk > > > > > > > peace. > > > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > > > > held > > > > > > meetings to > > > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > > > > roaring > > > > > > success, > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > > > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > > > > or > > > > > they us, > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > > > > make > > > > > > endless > > > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > > > > dress, > > > > > > language, > > > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > > > of course history. Politically > > > > correct, > > > > > but > > > > > > > untrue > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > > > > the > > > > > > respective > > > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > > > > rituals > > > > > and > > > > > > > religion. > > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > > > Partition > > > > > and a > > > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > > > pretend > > > > > do not > > > > > > > exist as > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > > > > while > > > > > > pining for > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to > > > > savour > > > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > > > > surface > > > > > and > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > > > > little > > > > > chance > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > > > > positions > > > > > > > harden. > > > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > > > > 'you > > > > > > and > > > > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > > > > Zardari > > > > > > tried to > > > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > > > > that > > > > > > there is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > > > > and > > > > > vice > > > > > > versa, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > > > > the > > > > > two. > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > rare > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > > > > Pakistani. > > > > > > However > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > > > > mutual > > > > > > suspicion > > > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > > > > divide > > > > > and > > > > > > > attempts > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > > > > for > > > > > peace > > > > > > is at > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > > > > results. > > > > > > In > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > > > > an > > > > > enraged > > > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign > > > > Minister, > > > > > sheds > > > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > > > > is > > > > > time to > > > > > > shed > > > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > > > > and > > > > > > abandon > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > > > > be > > > > > > brutally > > > > > > > honest > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > > > > to > > > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > > > > bonds > > > > > of > > > > > > history > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > force > > > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > > > > peace > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > > > "like-mindedness" > > > > > > > theory > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > > > > place > > > > > of > > > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > > > > about > > > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > > > hard, > > > > > bitter > > > > > > and > > > > > > > brutal > > > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > much > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > > > bordering > > > > > on > > > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > > > there > > > > > could be > > > > > > a > > > > > > > road > > > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > > > > treading > > > > > the > > > > > > path > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > > > > But > > > > > break > > > > > > bread > > > > > > > > together > > > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > > > > despite the > > > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > > > volatile > > > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > > > border > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > > > > the > > > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > > > Not > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > > > > be > > > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > > > > all > > > > > these > > > > > > > years is > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > > list on > > > > > > media and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > reader-list mailing list > > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93 > > > ******************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Prabhat Kumar > > Ph.D. Student, > > Department of History, > > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > Akshay Kumar takes on the two reigning Bollywood Khans. Catch the > action on MSN Entertainment! Check it out! From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 10:23:55 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:23:55 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Fwd: Ghost rides Message-ID: <569053.57063.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> all, am forwarding an email from a friend of mine in NYC who is the director of the coney island museum (check out the website below in his email.... it may surprise those who dont know it). He has some questions that i can't answer so am putting it out to this esteemed collection of some very creative and knowledgeable people..... best kabi Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: kabi cubby To: cubby sherman singh Sent: Monday, 26 January, 2009 9:45:33 AM Subject: Fwd: Ghost rides ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Aaron Beebe Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:52 PM Subject: Ghost rides To: cubbykabi at gmail.com Hey Kabi, I'm trying to put together a grant proposal to come back to India. Can you give me some advice? Here's what I'm looking for: I'm very interested in free-standing pavillions or "dark rides" at amusement parks and local fairs. In the US, at county fairs, there are haunted house rides where a car takes you through a scary building. And around Halloween, there are a million of these weird haunted houses that people make, right? They're scary tours of buildings or terrifying tableaus. They're related to the French Grand Guignol shows. Is there anything like that in India? When I went to Esselworld, there was a haunted house there. It was amazing. I'd like to see more of that. Do people make free-standing structures in local fairs? Is there a tradition of horror shows or gory morality plays? Or any kind of free-standing pavilions that have actors inside them doing things? Can you point me in some direction? I'm at a loss. a Aaron Beebe Director The Coney Island Museum www.coneyisland.com Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 12:20:27 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:20:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1256?q?=28Imagi=29nation_without_the_Musl?= =?windows-1256?b?aW1zP/4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Lalit (and all) I agree with your assertion that this issue could have been raised earlier as well, but then India is a country where certain issues are raised long after they have faded into oblivion. An example is Jodha Akbar. In Rajasthan, this movie was not allowed to be released by some organizations claiming themselves to be the spokespersons of the Rajputs. They objected to the fact that there was no wife of Akbar named as 'Jodha', but infact a daughter-in-law of Akbar named 'Jodha'. Ironically, when Mughal-e-Azam was made way back with Prithviraj Kapoor and Dilip Kumar (not to forget Madhubala), Akbar's wife was named Jodha. Then nobody had raised a controversy. Now, everyone suddenly remembers these things. Having said that, the outlook you have portrayed on the issue is nationalistic, whereas the one previously posted points to a sense of alienation, segregation and stupidity in some sense. Being nationalistic doesn't really help, for it just tries to prove that nation should be first rather than its individuals, as if development of a nation doesn't mean development of its' natives. For example, everytime Congress has announced some policy of minorities, our right wing friends are there to denounce it as 'pseudo-secularism' and 'minority appeasement'. In other words, they want to prove that all development activities are being undertaken for the Muslims, and none for the majority community, i.e. , the Hindus. This is pure rubbish on two counts. One, if Muslims are being developed, of course it means development of the country in a sense is also taking place, for after all, aren't these Indian Muslims (going by nationalistic standards). Secondly, appeasement doesn't mean to please someone, but to please someone just for the sake of pleasing. And hence, Muslims are not really getting development. All they are getting is some fake attention for the sake of their votes. As far as the previous mail was concerned, I think the issue of green colour is fine, but it may be too early to portray it as being alienated just because Gulshan Bawra wanted it or others wanted it. There are certain qualities in an individual which give way to these words, without him/her noticing anything about it. Also, as the nationalistic ideals had been seeped in at least among the upper classes, they may have become public through this manner. That doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, or that they are communal. Regards Rakesh From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 12:58:00 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:58:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901252328y16098670hbc1e41e732806e27@mail.gmail.com> sorry, it is Jamini Roy fakes, instead of Bimal Roy inder salim On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:47 AM, indersalim wrote: > on Fake and Art > > From introduction to The Piracy of Art by Sylvere Lotringer: > > "In The Conspiracy of Art, Baudrillard questions the privilege > attached to art by its practitioners. Art has lost all desire for > illusion: feeding back endlessly into itself, it has turned its own > vanishment into an art unto itself. Far from lamenting the "end of > art," Baudrillard celebrates art's new function within the process of > insider-trading. Spiraling from aesthetic nullity to commercial > frenzy, art has become transaesthetic, like society as a whole". > > With the backdrop of the above thought piece on Art, I believe, we can > seriously enter the debate on Faking, and its age old practice in Art. > I guess we all would like to know different opinions on the subject, > since a couple of days back, S.H Raza a noted Paris based Artist was > invited to inaugurate his own show where he discovered Fakes, not one > but many. As we know, this happened at one of the oldest gallery, > Doomimal Art Gallery in New Delhi. Reports say that he is initiating > legal action against those who are responsible for faking his art. > > Tintorrito, a Renaissance Master in Venice was notorious for lifting > other's compositions, and yet J.P. Satre wrote highly about his > genius, and not for nothing we have his paintings hung in Museums next > to those who labelled him unethical once. Even if this does not fall > under the category of faking, we have MonaLisa which was faked many > times during Leonardo's time itself, and there is doubt if the piece > hung in Louvre is the a real one or a fake . You may press the link to > read and see more on it. > http://www.mystudios.com/gallery/forgery/history/index.html. > > Since ancient times, faking art is a practice, so Raza is not the > first one to suffer. We have Bimal Roy fakes , Hussain fakes, Anjoli > Menon fakes, Bawa faks, Arpana fakes and even Subodh Gupta fakes. The > list is long and I heard there is some industry like thing near > Bhopal, and ' faking art ' is thriving trade in India. The debate here > is what is Fake in the first place? Is painting a currency note which > can not be forged unless you act illegally? But is there any > significance of word 'legal/illegal' in art? > > The above artists and their like-minded brethren are anguished, but > are they really? Or if yes, then do we need to join their anguish too, > and if yes, what way it benefits society, art and life ? And if it is > just about their market, why then we need to join the protest? Or is > it high time to declare that Art is neither original nor duplicate; > art is art, as long as its space-time is existentially breathing in > 'the present'? And the present is all about quantum we signs we are > dealing with on day to day basis. Who cares, if the Mao Zedong by > Andy Warhol sells for 17 million or whatever, and if its other silk > screen versions don't even sell for a shilling. To disseminate is the > conceptual urgency... > > Still, they have a point, and for that reason a senior artists Anjoli > Menon found a way out by marking her paintings with her thumb > impression which can be verified by a forensic expert if need arises. > So why don't other artists imitate her. Ah, these artists, as we know > are too egoistic. They will trace a photograph on their canvas and > fill it with their own colours of fantasy without declaring it > publicly, or lift anything from any forgotten composition or from any > popular form, but they wont lift anything what is well known in the > art domain. In the present case of faking their originals, they feel > helpless. I am personally amused. > > Now, imagine, if a painting which depicts Indira Gandhi or Gandhi by > MF Hussain is recommended by Govt. of India to be incorporated into a > Currency Note, and after some time it is discovered that the said work > of art was fake, would that currency be also declared as Fake? > Obviously no, because the value of the currency note is not measured > by nuances of the line work or some details important in aesthetic > world, but by the signature of the Reserve Bank Governer, who > represents the State. Please note that how artist's signature on the > canvas has often posited as the part of composition in the frame, and > not merely as a sign to verify the rest around it. Here, the moment we > attach a price tag to a painting it functions like a commercial > object. It was perhaps inevitable. One can understand the compulsions, > but what people in general have to say on the subject is quite > important. > > I quote : "The real is not threatened by its double today, ( Clement > Rosset ), it is threatened by its very idiocy". > > If the present is all about 'idiocy', then we need to grapple the > meaning of it rather than what is happening between Artists and > her/his collector. Any intensification of the debate on that account > would eventually not rob the concerns of those artists who feel ' > threatened by the double'. I am somehow interested by 'the idiocy of > art in life' and its long term effects in society. Obviously, the > collectors would offset such leanings in any art discourse and the > artists who want to appease the collectors are likely to join the > chorus. And if it becomes so black and white, I have no option but to > be content with whatever 'idiocy' grants me. > > I quote Jean Baudrillard, from his book 'The System of Objects' : " > The collector is never an utterly hopeless fanatic, precisely because > he collects objects that in some way always prevent him from > regressing into the ultimate abstraction of a delusional state, but at > the same time the discourse he thus creates can never for the very > same reason- get beyond a certain poverty and infantilism. Collecting > is always a limited, a repetitive process, and the very material > objects with which it is concerned are too concrete and too > discontinuous ever to be articulated as a true dialectical structure. > So if no-collectors are indeed ' nothing but morons,' collectors, for > the part, invariably have something impoverished and inhuman about > them".# > > Those who have seen the film 'The Moderns' ( 1988 ) know the story of > a failed painter down on his luck in Paris in the 1920's who accepts a > commission to forge a famous impressionist paintings. The film > questions what is real versus what is perceived or subjective. The > plot twists include a millionaire art collector publicly slashing > priceless paintings, thinking it as forged, while the fake paintings > are sent to hang in a New York museum. By the account, what we see as > best of impressionist works are in fact ' fakes'. > > Ah, what a relief. > > And for this reason alone, perhaps, we need to see Photography bereft > of those faking fears. > > ( to be continued … ) > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > -- From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 13:51:36 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:51:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] peace and reconciliation is allright - what about accountability? In-Reply-To: References: <749241.4681.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <878633.22045.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901260021w68e46f74t11aca5686803e2f@mail.gmail.com> who will deny the fact that terrorists are menace in any civil society. but who were the first terrorists in the modern history ? I guess, Israeli who created a fertile ground for Talibans to grow in Afganistan? if not USA who else. Bamiyan Buddhas lived there for centuries, but the moment USA trained the youth for their own agenda against USSR, they were all against reason, Strange, they the perpetators are still reasonable, decent looking guy, dancing on the floor when their policies were giving death to women and children in Gaza similarly, I guess a troubled kashmir and fall fo Swat valley still suits the Anglo-american foregin policy, that way, they know they have something lessons for us, some moral and ethical lectures for us, poor us warmly inder salim On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > The need of the hour is for the Pakistani civil society to mobilise opinion in their own country against the jihadi terror being perpetuated from their own soil agaist India. Hobnobbing with the compulsive peaceniks on this side who have themselves facilitated the political makeover of known Kashmiri terror commnders, serves no purpose - it only delays the process. > > Ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley during 1989-90; repeated jihadi terror attacks in J&K & rest of India & the latest 26-29/11 Mumbai massacre were executed at the behest of those who wanted to inflict 'thousand cuts' on the body of India.And it is only now when Pakistan is under international pressure & the menace of Jihadi terror has begun to target its own people that voices are being raised against it. > > There was no -absolutely no resistence by the so called Civil society in Pakistan when Kashmiri Islamists were being trained ,indoctrinated & armed openly there to create mayhem in our Kashmir - a quite valley was allowed to be turned in to a hell for Kashmiri masses.It is their own Talibanised Swat valley that is giving them jitters now. > > Painting 'clouds' over Kashmir in her work by visiting Salima Hashmi is definitely provocative from Indian point of view & in no way helps assuage the sentiments here at a time when LeT responsible for the 26-29/11 Mumbai carnage has also come forward (unchallanged....???....) representing the Kashmiri Islamists. > > SAFMA Secretary Gen.Imtiaz Alam during one of his last visits had the temerity to tell TOI (Q/A column) that he found the squalid refugee camps of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in Jammu as breeding grounds of RSS ideology.He conveniently ignored ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley as well as the pan Islamic fervour behind 'azadi -bara -e -islam' movement during his visit to Kashmir then. > > If only that lone terrorist was'nt cought alive in Mumbai, the Civil society as well as the state of Pakistan would have continued to remain in the denial mode. > > Regards all > LA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:47:01 -0800> From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net; ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> CC: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?> > Dear Yousuf,> I am not advocating war either.I admit I do not have any solutions.I agree with you that we are looking for simple solution to a complex problem.Perhaps we and others can discuss this over the course of time.> For one, USA should be recognized as an equal ally in promoting terrorism in the region since it fails to see through the diabolical game that Pak army is playing and keeps funding it.> Secondly,Pakistan should be diplomatically isolated and exposed,as India is trying to do right now.> "Yes Pak govt. is > > to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say> > our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is> > piling up on the street because of the government, and so> > on."> This analogy is disingenuous, to say the least.There are two major differences.> 1. Pak army is not negligent or inefficient,quite the contrary.Its very efficient in its multinational business of propagating terrorism.> 2.Its act of commission causes innumerable deaths including of its own citizens.> Anyway,thanks for the exchange.> Rahul> > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf wrote:> > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?> > To: "sarai list" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 5:12 PM> > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is,> > for us. Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is> > to be held responsible for all ills, the same way as we say> > our roads are bad because of the govt., the garbage is> > piling up on the street because of the government, and so> > on. We are trying to find simple solutions for complex> > problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or> > Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than> > more violence.> > > > Yousuf> > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana> > wrote:> > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation> > an illusion?> > > To: "sarai list"> > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM> > > Dear Yousuf,> > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a> > feel> > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its> > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people> > contact> > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be> > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize> > that> > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient> > agreement.> > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier> > that> > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and> > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be> > educated> > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in> > statistics> > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate> > themselves> > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway,> > please> > > go through this link.> > >> > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm> > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17> > countries> > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC> > World> > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan> > together> > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at> > the> > > University of Maryland."> > > I think even Taha can do the math.> > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query> > for a> > > precedent on your request,will you please take any> > further> > > statistics and sampling related questions on my> > behalf?> > > > > > Thank you> > > Rahul> > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > wrote:> > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > reconciliation> > > an illusion?> > > > To: "sarai list"> > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM> > > > Dear Rahul> > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more> > Indians to> > > be> > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But> > > there is> > > > always a long term and short term strategy> > required. I> > > as a> > > > citizen don't have the resources to get> > involved> > > in the> > > > short term and "surgical" treatment> > (which> > > some> > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement> > in> > > the> > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the> > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are> > > preaching> > > > terror against the so-called kafirs> > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real> > > opportunity to> > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may> > > realize> > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably> > change> > > their> > > > approach. This is the only way situations are> > > controlled in> > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree> > > everyone> > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You> > haven't> > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi> > > survey was> > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a> > > population of> > > > lakhs. > > > > > > > > Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > reconciliation> > > > an illusion?> > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > , "Peace> > > Initiative"> > > > ,> > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM> > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India,> > an> > > equal> > > > number> > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to> > be> > > > eradicated> > > > > from the face of the earth."> > > > > I agree.> > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term> > solution to> > > > terror> > > > > possible> > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its> > > > govt."> > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not> > > advocating> > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt> > > should not> > > > be> > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD> > > flourish> > > > and> > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent> > flip> > > > flops on> > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other> > > statements> > > > related> > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how> > sincere> > > they are> > > > in> > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors> > > flourishing> > > > with> > > > > the support of the establishment.> > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to> > treat> > > that> > > > person,> > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease> > > doesn't> > > > afflict> > > > > you. That's the choice we have to> > make."> > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier> > > mail.Contrary to> > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the> > > person> > > > does> > > > > want to be "treated".How do you> > plan to> > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready> > to> > > accept> > > > the> > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead> > Indians> > > while> > > > the> > > > > "treatment" is going on?> > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that> > majority> > > of> > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of> > Indians.As> > > I> > > > have> > > > > written earlier,even if that were the> > case,that> > > would> > > > not> > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps> > > supporting> > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds.> > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the> > state in> > > the> > > > way> > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can> > see> > > what> > > > it has> > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in> > return for> > > the> > > > money> > > > > it receives from the US.It will never> > completely> > > > eradicate> > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The> > poor> > > > people in> > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one> > hand> > > and> > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the> > other> > > > hand,while all> > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more> > funds> > > from the> > > > US.> > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak> > policies of> > > > > propagating international terrorism will not> > end> > > > unless and> > > > > until there is an existential threat to the> > > army.Its> > > > just> > > > > too profitable a business for them.> > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the> > > > warmongers.But> > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the> > debate> > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities> > and> > > > insisting on> > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and> > push> > > us> > > > closer> > > > > towards war.> > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > Rahul> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > reconciliation> > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > , "Peace> > > > Initiative"> > > > > ,> > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06> > PM> > > > > > Dear Rahul> > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned> > must> > > be> > > > true -> > > > > I> > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we> > do a> > > > survey in> > > > > India,> > > > > > an equal number of people will say> > Islam and> > > > Muslims> > > > > need to> > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the> > earth.> > > Same> > > > result> > > > > may> > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People> > are> > > not> > > > born> > > > > with> > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they> > are> > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from> > > Pakistan> > > > early> > > > > this> > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a> > butcher,> > > but> > > > he> > > > > won't> > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a> > > school in> > > > his> > > > > > village". I think that says a lot> > about> > > the> > > > > situation> > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not> > appreciate> > > this> > > > because> > > > > for us> > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with> > them> > > if> > > > they> > > > > > don't have schools in their> > > village". > > > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term> > solution to> > > > terror> > > > > possible> > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming> > its> > > govt.> > > > Was> > > > > the> > > > > > might of America able to eradicate> > Al-Qaeda> > > by> > > > > crushing> > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the> > > situation> > > > become> > > > > worse> > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural> > > > complexities> > > > > of our> > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that> > were> > > > interviewed> > > > > in the> > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a> > Hindu.> > > The> > > > only> > > > > image> > > > > > that their education system has given> > them> > > of> > > > India is> > > > > that> > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation> > will> > > only> > > > > strengthen> > > > > > that image for them (and for us about> > them).> > > But> > > > I> > > > > agree> > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is> > not> > > the> > > > only> > > > > > effective solution - but it can> > probably> > > help in> > > > > improving> > > > > > the results of those surveys in each> > > other's> > > > > favour. If> > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat> > that> > > person,> > > > or> > > > > do you> > > > > > kill him so that his disease> > doesn't> > > afflict> > > > you.> > > > > > That's the choice we have to make.> > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is> > peace and> > > > > reconciliation> > > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > ,> > "Peace> > > > > Initiative"> > > > > >> > ,> > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009,> > 7:13> > > PM> > > > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > > > Have you come across this survey> > > published> > > > in a> > > > > > Pakistani> > > > > > > newspaper?> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/> > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of> > participants> > > in the> > > > > > Karachi-based> > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing> > and> > > said> > > > that> > > > > Islam> > > > > > and> > > > > > > other religions supported> > it."> > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent> > of all> > > > those> > > > > surveyed> > > > > > in> > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide> > bombing> > > was> > > > > acceptable> > > > > > in> > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and> > Lebanon."> > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably> > the> > > most> > > > > > cosmopolitan of> > > > > > > all Pak cities.> > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better> > than> > > me,so> > > > can> > > > > you> > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my> > assumption> > > that> > > > there> > > > > is> > > > > > > probably no other place in> > Pakistan> > > that can> > > > be> > > > > > expected to> > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in> > the> > > > questions> > > > > > polled.> > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant> > > > difference?> > > > > How do> > > > > > you> > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > Rahul> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is> > peace> > > and> > > > > > reconciliation an> > > > > > > illusion?> > > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > > ,> > > "Peace> > > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Cc:> > kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23,> > 2009,> > > 3:25 PM> > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in> > > response to> > > > an> > > > > HT> > > > > > article> > > > > > > > (copied at bottom):> > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha> > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your> > > write-up I> > > > am> > > > > > wondering if> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > is the same country which> > produced> > > > Gandhi,> > > > > Kabir,> > > > > > > Buddha and> > > > > > > > such non-violent people.> > While you> > > find> > > > the> > > > > job> > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a> > waste> > > of> > > > time,> > > > > I> > > > > > found> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing.> > Today, a> > > > large> > > > > number> > > > > > of> > > > > > > people on> > > > > > > > both sides of the border are> > fed> > > up> > > > with> > > > > terror> > > > > > and> > > > > > > violence> > > > > > > > and are anxious for a> > workable> > > > solution. But> > > > > much> > > > > > of> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > essay is an extremely> > pessimistic> > > > attack on> > > > > such> > > > > > > people who> > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst> > into> > > > > productive and> > > > > > > positive> > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very> > intentions> > > of> > > > the> > > > > people> > > > > > who> > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you> > are> > > > proposing> > > > > that> > > > > > all> > > > > > > efforts> > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation> > and> > > the> > > > > > people-to-people> > > > > > > contact> > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be> > shut> > > and> > > > > replaced> > > > > > simply> > > > > > > by a> > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how> > > exactly do> > > > you> > > > > > define> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we> > > co-existing> > > > right> > > > > now?> > > > > > How> > > > > > > can a> > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this> > co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab> > > parties> > > > > between> > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not> > serve> > > any> > > > > purpose, but> > > > > > I> > > > > > > found> > > > > > > > your statement that there are> > > actually> > > > no> > > > > > > commonalities> > > > > > > > between the culture of India> > and> > > > Pakistan> > > > > rather> > > > > > > juvenile.> > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should> > be> > > hostile> > > > to> > > > > each> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > because they are culturally> > > dissimilar,> > > > then> > > > > we> > > > > > should> > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > a million more partitions> > within> > > India> > > > due> > > > > to our> > > > > > > cultural> > > > > > > > differences.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace> > > activists> > > > of> > > > > the two> > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > have remained less effective> > so> > > far> > > > because> > > > > their> > > > > > > reach has> > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi,> > Amritsar or> > > > Lahore> > > > > only.> > > > > > If> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote> > places> > > such> > > > as> > > > > > Gorakhpur,> > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and> > Faisalabad,> > > and> > > > meet> > > > > the> > > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be> > able> > > to> > > > > understand> > > > > > each> > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > better and realize that not> > > everyone in> > > > > these> > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that> > there> > > is> > > > "an> > > > > > > irreparable> > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to> > bridge> > > it> > > > are> > > > > both> > > > > > > unrealistic> > > > > > > > and impossible", I think> > the> > > divide> > > > has> > > > > been> > > > > > created> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > the governments and writers> > like> > > you.> > > > The> > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > people of> > > > > > > > the two countries are the> > only> > > ones who> > > > can> > > > > > bridge> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing> > such> > > > nonsense.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed> > > > > > > > New Delhi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in> > > India and> > > > > Pakistan> > > > > > who> > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace,> > > dialogue> > > > and> > > > > > > reconciliation)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it> > together> > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan> > Times> > > > > > > > January 22, 2009> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India> > and> > > Pakistan> > > > > > escalating,> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of> > > peace> > > > have> > > > > their> > > > > > hands> > > > > > > full.> > > > > > > > Irrespective of the> > > inappropriateness> > > > of> > > > > > marketing> > > > > > > peace at> > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to> > come> > > to> > > > terms> > > > > with> > > > > > 26/11,> > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are> > > overactive.> > > > Last> > > > > week> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed> > in> > > Amritsar> > > > with> > > > > a> > > > > > banner> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > friendship; another is> > invading> > > Delhi> > > > to> > > > > talk> > > > > > peace.> > > > > > > Worse> > > > > > > > still, their Indian> > counterparts> > > held> > > > > meetings to> > > > > > > ensure> > > > > > > > that their peace mission was> > a> > > roaring> > > > > success,> > > > > > apart> > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on> > Indian> > > soil.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit> > Pakistan> > > or> > > > they us,> > > > > they> > > > > > are> > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion.> > Both> > > make> > > > > endless> > > > > > > comparisons> > > > > > > > and list commonalities in> > food,> > > dress,> > > > > language,> > > > > > > culture and> > > > > > > > of course history.> > Politically> > > correct,> > > > but> > > > > > untrue> > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > there are distinct> > differences in> > > the> > > > > respective> > > > > > > cuisines,> > > > > > > > languages, festivals,> > customs,> > > rituals> > > > and> > > > > > religion.> > > > > > > What> > > > > > > > are common are the scars of> > > Partition> > > > and a> > > > > > > blood-stained> > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks> > > pretend> > > > do not> > > > > > exist as> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear> > hugs,> > > while> > > > > pining for> > > > > > a> > > > > > > no-visa> > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well> > to> > > savour> > > > > kebabs and> > > > > > > hosting> > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch> > the> > > surface> > > > and> > > > > there> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that> > have> > > little> > > > chance> > > > > of> > > > > > > healing.> > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism> > and> > > > positions> > > > > > harden.> > > > > > > Then it> > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather> > than> > > > 'you> > > > > and> > > > > > us'.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif> > Ali> > > > Zardari> > > > > tried to> > > > > > > charm> > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by> > saying> > > that> > > > > there is> > > > > > a> > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > bit of India in every> > Pakistani> > > and> > > > vice> > > > > versa,> > > > > > the> > > > > > > truth is> > > > > > > > that there is no love lost> > between> > > the> > > > two.> > > > > It is> > > > > > rare> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to> > a> > > > Pakistani.> > > > > However> > > > > > hard> > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away> > the> > > mutual> > > > > suspicion> > > > > > > sealed by> > > > > > > > history. There is an> > irreparable> > > divide> > > > and> > > > > > attempts> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > bridge it are both> > unrealistic and> > > > > impossible.> > > > > > > Marching to> > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light> > candles> > > for> > > > peace> > > > > is at> > > > > > best> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no> > tangible> > > > results.> > > > > In> > > > > > other> > > > > > > words, a> > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently> > when> > > an> > > > enraged> > > > > > Pranab> > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign> > > Minister,> > > > sheds> > > > > > diplomacy> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be> > faulted.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground> > reality, it> > > is> > > > time to> > > > > shed> > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get> > real,> > > and> > > > > abandon> > > > > > the> > > > > > > song and> > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We> > need to> > > be> > > > > brutally> > > > > > honest> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on> > peace> > > to> > > > > > co-existence. It> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and> > not> > > bonds> > > > of> > > > > history> > > > > > that> > > > > > > force> > > > > > > > us to live side by side.> > Replacing> > > > peace> > > > > with> > > > > > > co-existence> > > > > > > > will also help end the> > > > "like-mindedness"> > > > > > theory> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points> > in> > > place> > > > of> > > > > > non-workable> > > > > > > > alliances. It will end> > pretensions> > > > about> > > > > > camaraderie> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > help us face reality: however> > > hard,> > > > bitter> > > > > and> > > > > > brutal> > > > > > > it may> > > > > > > > be. Once minds are> > re-scripted, it> > > will> > > > be> > > > > much> > > > > > easier> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony> > > bordering> > > > on> > > > > > aggression.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and> > > there> > > > could be> > > > > a> > > > > > road> > > > > > > ahead;> > > > > > > > abandon the thought of> > jointly> > > treading> > > > the> > > > > path> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > solutions could be on the> > anvil.> > > But> > > > break> > > > > bread> > > > > > > together> > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter> > because> > > > despite the> > > > > > kebabs> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a> > > volatile> > > > > Indo-Pak> > > > > > border> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > the order of the day.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would> > be> > > the> > > > > peaceniks.> > > > > > Not> > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > will they be out of work but> > will> > > be> > > > > unwilling to> > > > > > > accept> > > > > > > > that what they have been> > marketing> > > all> > > > these> > > > > > years is> > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > illusion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________> > > > > > > > reader-list: an open> > discussion> > > list on> > > > > media and> > > > > > the> > > > > > > city.> > > > > > > > Critiques &> > Collaborations> > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email> > to> > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net> > with> > > > subscribe> > > > > in> > > > > > the> > > > > > > subject> > > > > > > > header.> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe:> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > _________________________________________________________________ > Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. > http://computing.in.msn.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Jan 26 17:21:33 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:51:33 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901252328y16098670hbc1e41e732806e27@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901252328y16098670hbc1e41e732806e27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901260351p946a77dh75ead1cb2aa704e6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Inder, Thank you for posting a wonderful essay. I look forward to the second part. I think this essay reflects a lot of issues, questions and dilemmas that I am grappling for last four years regarding the not so clear notion of identity. The similarities of debate in the art world, regarding fake and the original, seemingly creative solutions like Ela Menon's to deposit her thumbprint on her work, and the anxiety to identify the-one-as-the-one, are not that dissimilar, it seems to the current neurosis of many a nation state to introduce national identity cards. It was interesting to note how the writer of this essay choose Rosset's words to argue, "The real is not threatened by its double today it is threatened by its very idiocy". I am curious what Rosset's take would be on the crucial issue of national citizenship because essentially it is about identifying the real from the fake. To issue a national identity card, any state would have to act as a collector of personal and financial information. Of collectors he states, 'collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and inhuman about them'. Will he harbour the same opinoin for a nation state as a collector too? I wonder what prompted him to use such a strong language. As a reader one does not really understand why he articulates the act of collection as impoverished and inhuman. If for a moment we leave the sensitive nature of politics around the imagination of a nation state and talk purely in terms of politics around the art world, I would be happy to know your views in so far as the debate around the fake and original is concerned. As the essay suggests, one of the reasons for the existence of this anxiety seems to be money, the other seems to be ownership or maybe authorship. As an artist and a practitioner of an art form, to what extent, you think Inder, that one could formulate ideas about fake and original. Warm regards Taha From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 17:38:15 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:08:15 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1256?q?_RE=3A__=28Imagi=29nation_without_?= =?windows-1256?q?the_Muslims=3F=FE?= Message-ID: This weird idea of ‘India belonging to some particular regions only’ could emanate only from a ‘sick mindset’ with a propensity to ‘invent’ divisiveness even in a piece of fiction like a song in a feature film that in the first place never claimed to represent history. Any comment that is contrary to this absurd ‘research’ does not suggest support for banning of films---correct yourselves on that. And it smacks of arrogance to flaunt ones address on the forum, only to claim authority on the subject ‘film /media theory’. In any case, here the discourse is not about academic qualifications or foreign universities. Yes, there certainly remains a lot more to be done on the academic curricula especially at the school level to include legends about national heroes from all parts of the country. Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:31:22 +0530Subject: Re: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims?From: navayana at gmail.comTo: explore at prashant.caCC: lalitambardar at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net; prabhatkumar250 at gmail.comDear PrashantLalit Ambardar would of course believe that "India" belongs to central/north Indian heroes. And Manoj Kumar is justified in infusing non-existent colours (red!) into the flag. Lalit could perhaps write a nice post on who this Hari Singh Nalava is; and also do us a post on Veerpandia Kattabomman who does not figure in the song. While at it, he can also tell us about Samakka-Sarakka. And yes, this forum has a good share of "lay" fools who would just provoke you by their ignorance. So relax.However, the person who responded to you regarding the absence of Muslims and your not even mentioning this, is I think making a right point and you must take it in the right spirit. Prabhat Kumar is not saying that Muslims are NOT subaltern; he is only pointing to the fact that you could have, in a few lines, noted the fact that not even one Muslim icon is mentioned in the Bharat Kumar song.Anand On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Prashant Kadam wrote: And what is perhaps more preposterous is it took 32 years for somebodyto at least talk about such misrepresentations. And yes this is notthe only song played on the national days, there are a dozen othersand most have followed the same rhetoric of excluding the marginalized.Just because Manoj Kumar made "legendary films" does not qualify him(or for that matter anybody) for exemption from critical scrutiny. Twowrongs don't make a right.No questions of "certification" or "banning the film" were addressedin my article, unless you are imagining things.It is not surprising to read such "lay" comments, people who have nosense of film/media theory are bound to make such errors. If you can,at least try to write some constructive criticism the next time youwrite or is it too much to ask for?Talking of banning films, try finding out who tried to ban and ransacktheaters when Fire, Fanaa etc. were released.PrashantOn 25-Jan-09, at 4:36 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote:>> Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification> from.......????.....>> It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only> song that is played on the national days.> Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the> film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat> Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab> Pashchim) is preposterous.> Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who> knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the> movie itself .> Regards all> LA> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 17:43:37 2009 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:13:37 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? Message-ID: <418f44e20901260413qa1094degd47cea97a77e48f2@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:59 AM, wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > Dear Prashant, Sorry for delayed reply. My net was not working. I think Anand has already written quite clearly what I meant by my short posting.. My comment was not intended to irritate anyone. Cheers! Prabhat > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? (Prashant Kadam) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:59:45 -0500 > From: Prashant Kadam > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? > To: prabhat kumar > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Message-ID: <73DB5741-6132-4CA9-AAAC-9CEDF9B7E39F at prashant.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > And if one goes by your logic, Muslims are not subalterns? > > Prashant > > On 25-Jan-09, at 12:32 PM, prabhat kumar wrote: > > > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by > > Prasant imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but > > fails to perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims > > in this nationalist song of Bharat Kumar! > > > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, > > wrote: > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing) > > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 > > From: Navayana Publishing > > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... > > To: sarai list > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm > > > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern > > > > PRASHANT KADAM > > > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be > > heard yet > > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song > > celebrates > > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. > > > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from the film > > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street > > corners to > > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again this > > January > > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by > > Manoj Kumar > > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its > > natural > > resources and its leaders. > > > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, > > khilate hain > > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese hain > > chaman ke > > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal > > bahaadoor > > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar se > > (In these > > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, Subhash, > > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour green > > stands > > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is > > drawn from > > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) > > > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various levels, I > > shall > > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few > > facts have > > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the discourse of > > the > > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri Goswami > > in > > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and > > displacement in > > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric writer, > > Gulshan > > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar > > background. > > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. The > > point > > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while > > envisioning > > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his team > > were > > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. > > > > New colour > > > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it > > superimposes > > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the Buddha. > > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin who > > openly > > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful negotiations, > > also > > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is the > > invoking > > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain > > laal > > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a > > relatively > > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur > > Shastri). > > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The > > mention of Lal > > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact that > > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His inclusion > > perhaps > > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he been > > slipped > > in here? > > > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian tricolour > > with > > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non- > > existent red > > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song > > systematically > > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — with > > certain > > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark blue > > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not > > only does > > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also the > > 24 arcs > > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its central > > place in > > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, when > > it > > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the Dhamma > > Chakra's > > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with this > > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, Dr. > > B.R. > > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The man > > who > > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually > > unknown > > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on his > > name. > > > > Ample liberties > > > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in the > > flag > > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the Indian > > National > > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has to be > > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted from the > > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or > > regional > > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such as > > love, > > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" song > > takes > > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an unbalanced > > choice > > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. > > > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the absence > > of women > > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is > > symbolic and > > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song and > > its > > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation of > > images > > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have limited > > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the > > inaudibility > > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere Desh > > ki > > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. > > > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, we > > must hear > > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its ambiguous > > erasures. > > > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies at York > > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca > > > > www.navayana.org > > > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! > > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for us. > > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held > > responsible for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad > > because of the govt., the garbage is piling up on the street because > > of the government, and so on. We are trying to find simple solutions > > for complex problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or > > Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than more > > violence. > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? > > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > > > go through this link. > > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > > > University of Maryland." > > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > > > > > Thank you > > > Rahul > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > > an illusion? > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > > > be > > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > > there is > > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > > > as a > > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > > > in the > > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > > > some > > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > > > the > > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > > preaching > > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > > opportunity to > > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > > realize > > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > > > their > > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > > controlled in > > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > > everyone > > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > > survey was > > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > > population of > > > > lakhs. > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > reconciliation > > > > an illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > , "Peace > > > Initiative" > > > > , > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > > > equal > > > > number > > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > > > eradicated > > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > > I agree. > > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > terror > > > > > possible > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > govt." > > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > > advocating > > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > > should not > > > > be > > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > > flourish > > > > and > > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > > > flops on > > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > > statements > > > > related > > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > > > they are > > > > in > > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > > flourishing > > > > with > > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > > > that > > > > person, > > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > > doesn't > > > > afflict > > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > > mail.Contrary to > > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > > person > > > > does > > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > > > accept > > > > the > > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > > > while > > > > the > > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > > > of > > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > > > I > > > > have > > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > > > would > > > > not > > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > > supporting > > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > > > the > > > > way > > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > > > what > > > > it has > > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > > > the > > > > money > > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > > > eradicate > > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > > > people in > > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > > > and > > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > > > hand,while all > > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > > > from the > > > > US. > > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > > > unless and > > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > > army.Its > > > > just > > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > > warmongers.But > > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > > > insisting on > > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > > > us > > > > closer > > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , "Peace > > > > Initiative" > > > > > , > > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > > > be > > > > true - > > > > > I > > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > > > survey in > > > > > India, > > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > > > Muslims > > > > > need to > > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > > > Same > > > > result > > > > > may > > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > > > not > > > > born > > > > > with > > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > > Pakistan > > > > early > > > > > this > > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > > > but > > > > he > > > > > won't > > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > > school in > > > > his > > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > > > the > > > > > situation > > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > > > this > > > > because > > > > > for us > > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > > > if > > > > they > > > > > > don't have schools in their > > > village". > > > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > terror > > > > > possible > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > govt. > > > > Was > > > > > the > > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > > > by > > > > > crushing > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > > situation > > > > become > > > > > worse > > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > > complexities > > > > > of our > > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > > > interviewed > > > > > in the > > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > > > The > > > > only > > > > > image > > > > > > that their education system has given them > > > of > > > > India is > > > > > that > > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > > > only > > > > > strengthen > > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > > > But > > > > I > > > > > agree > > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > > > the > > > > only > > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > > > help in > > > > > improving > > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > > other's > > > > > favour. If > > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > > person, > > > > or > > > > > do you > > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > > > afflict > > > > you. > > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > , > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > > > PM > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > > published > > > > in a > > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > > > in the > > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > > > said > > > > that > > > > > Islam > > > > > > and > > > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > > > those > > > > > surveyed > > > > > > in > > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > > > was > > > > > acceptable > > > > > > in > > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > > > most > > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > > > me,so > > > > can > > > > > you > > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > > > that > > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > > > that can > > > > be > > > > > > expected to > > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > > > questions > > > > > > polled. > > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > > difference? > > > > > How do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > > > and > > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > , > > > "Peace > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > > response to > > > > an > > > > > HT > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > > write-up I > > > > am > > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > > > Gandhi, > > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > > > find > > > > the > > > > > job > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste > > > of > > > > time, > > > > > I > > > > > > found > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > > > large > > > > > number > > > > > > of > > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > > > up > > > > with > > > > > terror > > > > > > and > > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > > > solution. But > > > > > much > > > > > > of > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > > > attack on > > > > > such > > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > > > productive and > > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > > > of > > > > the > > > > > people > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > > > proposing > > > > > that > > > > > > all > > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > > > the > > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > > > and > > > > > replaced > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how > > > exactly do > > > > you > > > > > > define > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we > > > co-existing > > > > right > > > > > now? > > > > > > How > > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > > parties > > > > > between > > > > > > Indian > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > > > any > > > > > purpose, but > > > > > > I > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > > actually > > > > no > > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > > > Pakistan > > > > > rather > > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > > > hostile > > > > to > > > > > each > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > > dissimilar, > > > > then > > > > > we > > > > > > should > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > a million more partitions within > > > India > > > > due > > > > > to our > > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > > activists > > > > of > > > > > the two > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > have remained less effective so > > > far > > > > because > > > > > their > > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > > > Lahore > > > > > only. > > > > > > If > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > > > such > > > > as > > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > > > and > > > > meet > > > > > the > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able > > > to > > > > > understand > > > > > > each > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > > everyone in > > > > > these > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > > > is > > > > "an > > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > > > it > > > > are > > > > > both > > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the > > > divide > > > > has > > > > > been > > > > > > created > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > the governments and writers like > > > you. > > > > The > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > > the two countries are the only > > > ones who > > > > can > > > > > > bridge > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > > India and > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > who > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > > dialogue > > > > and > > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > > > Pakistan > > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > > peace > > > > have > > > > > their > > > > > > hands > > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > > inappropriateness > > > > of > > > > > > marketing > > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > > > to > > > > terms > > > > > with > > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > > overactive. > > > > Last > > > > > week > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > > > Amritsar > > > > with > > > > > a > > > > > > banner > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > > > Delhi > > > > to > > > > > talk > > > > > > peace. > > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > > > held > > > > > meetings to > > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > > > roaring > > > > > success, > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > > > or > > > > they us, > > > > > they > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > > > make > > > > > endless > > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > > > dress, > > > > > language, > > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > > of course history. Politically > > > correct, > > > > but > > > > > > untrue > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > > > the > > > > > respective > > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > > > rituals > > > > and > > > > > > religion. > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > > Partition > > > > and a > > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > > pretend > > > > do not > > > > > > exist as > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > > > while > > > > > pining for > > > > > > a > > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to > > > savour > > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > > > surface > > > > and > > > > > there > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > > > little > > > > chance > > > > > of > > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > > > positions > > > > > > harden. > > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > > > 'you > > > > > and > > > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > > > Zardari > > > > > tried to > > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > > > that > > > > > there is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > > > and > > > > vice > > > > > versa, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > > > the > > > > two. > > > > > It is > > > > > > rare > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > > > Pakistani. > > > > > However > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > > > mutual > > > > > suspicion > > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > > > divide > > > > and > > > > > > attempts > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > > > for > > > > peace > > > > > is at > > > > > > best > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > > > results. > > > > > In > > > > > > other > > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > > > an > > > > enraged > > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign > > > Minister, > > > > sheds > > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > > > is > > > > time to > > > > > shed > > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > > > and > > > > > abandon > > > > > > the > > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > > > be > > > > > brutally > > > > > > honest > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > > > to > > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > > > bonds > > > > of > > > > > history > > > > > > that > > > > > > > force > > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > > > peace > > > > > with > > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > > "like-mindedness" > > > > > > theory > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > > > place > > > > of > > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > > > about > > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > > hard, > > > > bitter > > > > > and > > > > > > brutal > > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > > > will > > > > be > > > > > much > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > > bordering > > > > on > > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > > there > > > > could be > > > > > a > > > > > > road > > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > > > treading > > > > the > > > > > path > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > > > But > > > > break > > > > > bread > > > > > > > together > > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > > > despite the > > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > > volatile > > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > > border > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > > > the > > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > > Not > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > > > be > > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > > > all > > > > these > > > > > > years is > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > list on > > > > > media and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe > > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > reader-list mailing list > > reader-list at sarai.net > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93 > > ******************************************* > > > > > > > > -- > > Prabhat Kumar > > Ph.D. Student, > > Department of History, > > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 98 > ******************************************* > -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 01:05:35 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:05:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901260351p946a77dh75ead1cb2aa704e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901252328y16098670hbc1e41e732806e27@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901260351p946a77dh75ead1cb2aa704e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901261135y759cdb40o7df9f200d3107419@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, Your very interesting response is certainly my essay's second part. I will try write its third part. I wish there are many more reflection on the subject. The subject ' fake/original' is such that we can always safely conclude by saying ' to be concluded…' Earlier, this little essay-piece was triggered by Raza's serious reaction to his own fakes. But obviously I can not simply stop at criticizing him for his lack of humour, but we rightly need to march ahead and touch the deeper issues of identity etc. Today on 26th of Jan. in TOI we have an interview by poet-bureaucrat Ashok Vajpayee who also seemed quite bothered by collector's dilemmas, which intellectually I again see some sort of short-sightedness. What amuses me most in all this that the victim artists themselves fail to realize their own understanding of modern art, which is that art changes, even after the brush stops, even after the colours dry on the surface, even after the same set of eyes see it again, even after the same audience likes and then dislikes it… I believe, a time gap of 60 years is enough to make the artists to see her/his own works in a changed form. If not, I only see stagnation. We have to move ahead of Dada and Duchamp but I guess it is futile to continue with a Picasso etc. What is that which makes them dismiss the forgery in the first place: if not the money factor ? But wait; they are perhaps genuinely worried, because they are still on the same old track of creativity, which is creative indeed, but something, smog like, has crept into "all the pores" of that creativity, explicitly, which we call : conceptual. Radical thought is a perpetual flux of expression in material and Life directly. Unlike in the first part, where I took pains and found Jean Baudrillard's quotes sufficiently describing the collectors limitations, but now, I guess, we ought to intuitively enter the word 'conceptualism'. Meanwhile, can we suggest to represent ourselves with an image of say Dodo, or about to go extinct species such as Tiger, tied around our necks in our National Identity Cards? Will that be too heavy a weight for the Nationhood to bear? Do we need to realize intensely that things have shifted radically ? The Nation State needs a lie to sustain itself. Even legendry post-Kalinga King Ashoka required some violence to sustain his hold on power. It is inevitable. Read today's fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two terrorists. Now people know why we need 26th of Jan. and so Identity cards as well. I am interested in something which takes a departure from that line of identity which is too obvious, predictable. Perhaps, the notions of identities have shifted for the younger generation, and do this younger lot blindly let them impose their ways of identity on the rest. Do we need to join their anguish against the fakes, even when we don't paint. I do paint, as a true amateur, that is entirely different from what Raza and co. are into, but yes, 'photography' I believe, was free from this ' faking fear'. So I do, photographs, and would be amused if they are duplicated into anything else. I have no fears on that account, but I have my own fears. Yes, there are more bigger traps in the photography, but to grapple with those, do we need to get rid of those ghosts who are by now exposed? The mystery ghosts of Indian Modern art are on sale, and I have not no interest to buy one, even when I had such a huge money to invest, but I do look at them comically, which is not ordinary. They amuse me, they entertain me, but I don't see they are radical enough to unnerve the bigger ghosts of our existing times, which are much darker in nature. If we truly believe "every body is an artist" then we know how definitions don't work, and we also need to know why there is some sincere desire in people to identify themselves with something where money was a minor player, but their inner respective being was ' the hero . I am not certainly talking about some 'collective consciousness', whatever that means, but something which is 'singular' in nature. I usually write ' singular-i-tease' whenever we talk about that inner' people's desire', which rips ( Derrida ) anything, both sacred and profane. People do it, in their own beautiful ways. Please have a look at my second version of INDER SALIM poster, which has the very name indersalim ( sound ) written in sausages 'of beef and pork'. So, difficult to devour and relish, for those who are hard core believers of their respective identities: Hindu and Muslim. http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com ( image in the box ) In practice, I believe, the difference between original and fake is just a temporary one. I am talking about how ' our ways of living' are road rolling that earlier difference of identity which we held dearly near our hearts. Gizmos and technologies are rendering that difference into a mythical one. There is a profound regret, but perhaps, we don't have a way to go back to the past, but we have all the reason to see faults with modernity. Something else is happening right now. I have certainly no big expression to talk about that, but see, what a chaos we are in. So what is hidden but there, is perhaps vital for our ongoing ways of living. The style of an artist has indeed collapsed as something lasting. The National identity too has a limited function in that sense. The word ' conceptual' on the other hand transcends the boarder, and the style at the same time. It outwits the market oriented collector, and simultaneously questions the corporate cultured monster's hidden sprawl under the national tricolour. Unfortunately, the masses are helpless, but they deserve better than Nation merely as style, and a situation where artists are a rare commodity, like a Mercedes car which they only look at from a distance, for some moon like desire in their eyes. ( see, how MF Hussain, openly exhibits his hobby of collecting expensive cars in Dubai ) At national level, particularly in North India we have a strong difference which is based on 1947, and Partition. Both, the post colonial identity and Hindu Muslim difference is working towards the formation of National Identity. Here, again ' our ways of living are rendering that difference into insignificance. A time will come when we don't need fear to from this lack, of not being a Nationalist; which does not mean we need to be anti-nationalist for that, but something which is liberating, truly for our inner spiritual pursuits at the core. Right now we don't have a duplicate to a Mulla ji or a Brahmin ji who performs an original and obviously devastate millions of Indians with his fear mechanism. They even sabotage the strong structures of Democracy with their deep psychological reaches into the minds of people. They themselves carry a ritual flag in the name of God. They rob people and give power to God. They are intimately seated next to nation state which robs people to enrich itself. They were never originals in their original function in our society . But they had a style which they sell like our modern masters. This is where 'the Nation', if dependant on that style ' of partition and post colonial identity' then it performs as collector which is "impoverished and inhuman ". About 'idiocy' of our times: that we are drowned by the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies. Where is the original Monalisa stands today, if we were burn all millions and billions of photocopies of Monalisa ? Is anybody hearing, Raza who is too anguished about fakes of his originals. Nation is on the thorn, Some one is hungry at Seven. Artist is worried about originals. Muse is in her Heaven. All is right with the world With love and regards Inder salims On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > Thank you for posting a wonderful essay. I look forward to the second part. > > I think this essay reflects a lot of issues, questions and dilemmas that I am grappling for last four years regarding the not so clear notion of identity. > > The similarities of debate in the art world, regarding fake and the original, seemingly creative solutions like Ela Menon's to deposit her thumbprint on her work, and the anxiety to identify the-one-as-the-one, are not that dissimilar, it seems to the current neurosis of many a nation state to introduce national identity cards. > > It was interesting to note how the writer of this essay choose Rosset's words to argue, "The real is not threatened by its double today it is threatened by its very idiocy". I am curious what Rosset's take would be on the crucial issue of national citizenship because essentially it is about identifying the real from the fake. > > To issue a national identity card, any state would have to act as a collector of personal and financial information. Of collectors he states, 'collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and inhuman about them'. Will he harbour the same opinoin for a nation state as a collector too? > > I wonder what prompted him to use such a strong language. As a reader one does not really understand why he articulates the act of collection as impoverished and inhuman. > > If for a moment we leave the sensitive nature of politics around the imagination of a nation state and talk purely in terms of politics around the art world, I would be happy to know your views in so far as the debate around the fake and original is concerned. > > As the essay suggests, one of the reasons for the existence of this anxiety seems to be money, the other seems to be ownership or maybe authorship. > > As an artist and a practitioner of an art form, to what extent, you think Inder, that one could formulate ideas about fake and original. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 05:23:03 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:53:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Black Lips Chased out of India by Police Message-ID: <460878.33385.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hilarious! http://www.pitchfork.com/article/news/148715-black-lips-chased-out-of-india-by-police Black Lips Chased out of India by Police Their tour is cancelled, the cops are after them, and their label has no clue where they are. But it sounds like they had fun! Black Lips Chased out of India by Police When garage-rock knuckleheads the Black Lips smash beer bottles over their guitars or piss in their own mouths onstage in the U.S., the worst that usually happens is they'll get banned from another venue. But when they bring that anarchy to their tour of India, they incur the wrath of all sorts of authority figures. That's what reportedly happened Friday night in Chennai. According to the Indian music site Indiecision, the Lips got themselves in deep shit while playing at Sir Mutha Venkata Subbarao Concert Hall. Guitarist Cole Alexander stripped his clothes off, dove in the crowd, then got back onstage and made out with other band members. This kind of thing does not fly in Chennai. As of right now, the rest of the Lips' Indian tour is cancelled, and the band's label, Vice Records, has no idea where they are. After the show, the band sent Vice an email detailing all the crazy shit that happened to them after that onstage stunt: After the fiasco, which the kids seemed to like, the financial backers of the event were furious and threw us off the tour. They tried to get security to restrain us until the Tamil police arrived. We locked the door while they were kicking and banging on it. Meanwhile, we slipped out the other emergency exit. When we got to the hotel our tour guide informed us that the that the Campus Rock Idols sponsors were pressing charges and that the police would make their arrest. At that point our tour driver informed us we would have to drive six hours to get to the next town and cross state lines where we would be out of the Tamil authorities jurisdiction, because apparently the jail in Chennai is no joke. Word on the street said that it was teeming with tuberculosis, violence and live maggots so instead of risking going there we fled the scene. The drive ended up taking 10 hours because of a horrific accident on the road. We were also informed that all of the shows on our tour had been canceled effectively fucking all funds for the trip. This was a cultural clashing shit storm. When we got to the next hotel a mysterious man and someone who worked for our Indian booking agency tried to run off with our passports they got to the car when we caught them. That's when our VBS.tv documentarian Rob went postal on them. We surrounded them until they gave back our passports. After that we booked the first flight to Berlin to instead work with another Indian, King Khan, on an upcoming EP. We are flying out as soon as sunrise hits this far away land and we have to have the US embassy's phone number on hand in case any more troubleshit starts popping at the airport or something. We would like to thank the four Hindi speaking tour guides, and Rana Ghose for helping us get through these enormous trials and tribulations, and for future reference we really enjoyed the people of India and we hope western rock bands will be able to tour there in the future." As of this moment, the folks at Vice have received no contact from the band since that email, so there's no word on whether or not they escaped Indian police and made it to Germany. Reached for comment, Vice Label Coordinator Creative Director Christopher Roberts says, "I'm concerned but am confident they'll be fine." This Indian tour had always seemed like a pretty nuts idea. The Lips were topping the bill at a Battle of the Bands, playing after a bunch of Indian metal bands. And the first show of the tour, in Pune, found the confused crowd pelting the band with plastic bottles. In an interview with Time Out Mumbai, Lips drummer Joe Bradley said that the band would be tuning down their live show for this tour: "We want to respect the people and places that provide these shows for us." The weird thing is that the Chennai show actually sounds fairly low-key as far as Black Lips shows go. If they've managed to make it out of India unscathed, the Black Lips have a run of shows starting up in Germany next week, followed by a huge U.S. tour that'll run through May. Vice will release 200 Million Thousand, their grimy next album, on February 24. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 05:53:08 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:23:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] We were molested in the name of God Message-ID: <881938.62963.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Is someone from Blank Noise on this list? We need more support and visibility for organizations like Blank Noise. http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/27/stories/2009012759421000.htm We were molested in the name of God ’ Sudipto Mondal MANGALORE: “The entire scene has been playing out in my mind over and over again,” said a woman who was in ‘Amnesia,’ the pub that was attacked by a mob of Sri Ram Sene members on Saturday. She was sitting at the reception counter when the mob entered the compound and was witness to the incident from beginning to end. She said that before barging into the pub, the mob went into a huddle and prayed silently. They then began raising slogans ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai,’ ‘Jai Sri Ram,’ ‘Bajrang Dal ki Jai’ and ‘Sri Ram Sene ki Jai.’ “We have been molested and humiliated in the name of God and country by people who obviously have no regard for either of the two,” she told The Hindu on Monday. Around 4 p.m. on January 24, a group of over 40 people, wearing saffron headbands and scarves, came in through the main gate and approached the bouncer of the pub. “They asked to be let in so that they could get everybody out of the joint,” she said. Even as the bouncers negotiated with them at the entrance, the pub’s staff quickly closed the doors, and locked the woman and the bouncers outside. Hearing the noise, a curious kitchen staffer opened the rear door to see what was happening. The mob seized this opportunity and barged in through the kitchen. The victim too followed the mob indoors through the back door. “Once inside, they went straight for the women guests. They rounded them up at the centre of the dance floor and then started beating them mercilessly,” she said. After the initial beating, some of the assailants began to single out some of them and molested them. “One of them stripped a girl and groped her. She was also badly beaten up. We are still trying to trace her,” she said. According to her, several girls were targeted similarly. “They were laughing when they were doing all this. It was just fun for them,” she said. The attackers then targeted the men who dared come to the rescue of the girls. The narrator herself was slapped a few times. What tormented her was the reaction of certain sections of the media. “They arrived on the scene even before the attackers did,” she said, and added, “there was no nude dancing or prostitution going on there as reported.” She and a few other victims are now trying to form a support group of those who were attacked in the incident. “Some of the women are in shock because of the humiliation they had to face on television,” she said. “We are trying to get professional counsellors for the victims and for their families.” Asserting her right to frequent the pub, she said, “We will also soon launch a protest on the streets to voice our opposition. We want to tell the world that we will not tolerate the growth of a Taliban-style group in this city.” From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 27 09:14:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:44:31 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901261135y759cdb40o7df9f200d3107419@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901252328y16098670hbc1e41e732806e27@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901260351p946a77dh75ead1cb2aa704e6@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901261135y759cdb40o7df9f200d3107419@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901261944r34038e6ap3d0547e148c8eab8@mail.gmail.com> Dear Inder, Thank you for your response. Your reflections, I think in a way, opens up a range of possibilities, which may enable us to probe further into the idea of identity in general and fake/original in particular. I believe, with respect to the proposed national identity cards across the globe these two issues are going to be contested within the domain citizenship. I quite agree with your suggestion that in so far as the question of finality of opinion regarding 'fake/original' is concerned we must allow ourselves to let it be, I think for every researcher this is perhaps a more desired state to be in. To suspend judgment in order to re-search is perhaps the only motto with which a lot of people, I know, live by. A statement like 'to be concluded...' also feeds into a wider debate about what must the most apt position for a writer of social sciences, be it a historian, any historian for that matter, a sociologist or an economist. And looking at your response I think any artist will fit in here too. The argument, back then, was simple, that till 19th century, there was a division between the subject and the object in so far as the physical sciences were concerned. Man was trying to decipher nature, by inventing tools of calibration, forming processes of measurement and trying to arrive at some sort of a meaning which was of course endlessly negotiated. But in every case the subject was at a distance from the object. The object was looked into. The gaze was always outwards. In social sciences this distinction was not there, primarily because, one was a part and parcel of larger historical, sociological and economical currents. The paucity of distance, I think makes any inquiry into the question of identity a difficult process but at the same time an interesting one too. You mention the inevitability of change in art even after it is considered as a final product. I find this interesting as, if we take inevitability of change as a premise then could we imagine all art to be organic, like a human being? If we can then how are we to understand that a particular piece of art in say year X, was that same piece of art in say X+60 years? You term it stagnation if the answer is in affirmative. One wonders if indeed it is stagnation or decay then why is it decaying or what is stagnating? I see a direct analogy between a piece of art authored by an artist and a tag of citizenship authored by a nation state. In a way, one can sense a claim, that both the art work and the citizen belong to those who author them. Of course this claim is always contested, always negotiated. But there seems to be something very patriarchal in this exercise of lending ones identity, a meta identity to those who/which are considered as one's product. This anxiety is to name, to mark, to tag, to code, to assign, to signify, to brand, to embellish, to blot, to imprint, to smudge, in a sense seems like an act of an insecure father, who can perhaps, never ascertain otherwise his children as his own children. A mother, on the other hand, always knows who her children are. A national identity card, it seems, may further complicate the imagination of nation, particularly in the Indian context, as that of a mother. If Bharat is indeed a Mata even in a metaphorical sense, then do we really need a tag to be ascribed as her children? Because if we do then, she cannot certainly be called a mother in the truest sense of word, she has to located in a patriarchal cosmos, which is governed by larger, older and bigger galaxies of gender, caste, class, region, religion, state, nation state, welfare state and of course the market. You hint at moving away from Dada and Duchamp while imagining art, I think if we look at national identity cards closely we might find traces of not only Duchamp and Dada but also Paul Eluard. There is something uncannily common between the careful randomness of Dada poetry, for instance, and the national identity number with which a national identity card will, perhaps identify us all one day. Please allow me to borrow words of philosopher of statistics, Ian Hacking: 'Think of Paul Eluard, king of Dada, composing and publishing poems that consist simply of words, first written on slips of paper, and then, drawn from a hat. We have really escaped necessity here, publishing purely random words! Yet in exactly the same decade, L.J.C Tippett first collected and finally published tables of random sampling numbers under the auspicious, of Karl Pearson's journal, Biometrika. These were systematically random numbers, taken from digits of dates of births and deaths in parish registers. These cradle and tombstone digits of pure chance were intended to increase the efficacy of data analysis, to bring order into chaos, to derive firm bounds, for any error that might be produced by chance fluctuations. Dada and Biometrika: two sides of the same coin we might say.' [From, The Taming of Chance, by Ian Hacking, Cambridge University Press, 1990, p-149] There seems to be something eerie in the fix-randomness of a National Identity Number which tends to be inhuman primarily because it does not seem to decay, it can perhaps never become stagnant. So while you may decay and die your number will always be still in its infancy. Because a national identity number will always remain in the same condition as it was born. Statistical sampling followed art a century back to give us an imagination of random numbers, a philosophy of chance and a ready tool of distant governance; I wonder how will statistics respond to a call for a shift in the art world now? At a level more abstract than the abstraction of numbers, I find the invocation of the question, Who are you?, with respect to the questioning of an individual self- disturbing. Maybe because this question overrides a more fundamental question in a Descartean sense, 'What are you?'. But What then am I? writes Descarte and then attempts an answer, 'A thing which thinks. What is a thing which thinks? It is a thing which doubts, understands, conceives, affirms, denies, wills, refuses, which also imagines and feels'[From, Descarte, Key Philosophical Writings, On Meditations,Wordsworth Edition, p-143]. It seems,by foregrounding the question 'Who are you?' and providing a National Identity Card as an answer, we are asked just to affirm, will and understand and not given an opportunity to doubt, conceive, deny, imagine or feel. But then, I may be wrong here, for, identity as an idea and as an entity still remains to be concluded... Warm regards Taha From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 09:40:17 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:40:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Not again: Many loopholes in police theory of Noida encounter Message-ID: Noida encounter: Many loopholes in police theory 27 Jan 2009, 0200 hrs IST, TNN NOIDA/LUCKNOW: Talk about coincidence. Two terrorists, out to stage a Republic Day attack in Delhi, stopped at a tea stall to ask for directions from a man -- who just happened to be a police informer, related to a constable. Not just that, the barrel of an AK gun was peeping out from their bag. The hawk-eyed informer spotted this and promptly told the cops. Too pat for comfort? Well, that's the version of the UP ATS. And that's not the only thing that raises increasing doubts about the veracity of the pre-dawn Noida encounter. The two alleged Pakistani terrorists who were gunned down on Sunday morning weren't carrying either a satellite phone or a mobile, the UP Anti-Terrorist Squad said on Monday. This would make it a first among major terror strikes in recent times where the attackers had no means of communicating among themselves or receiving instructions from their handlers. Experts say, for terror outfits, communication is a crucial element of any operation, be it the 26/11 Mumbai attack or the Delhi serial blasts. That's not all. It now surfaces that there are two versions on where the ATS team started chasing the militants. The ATS says the pursuit began from Amity checkpost in Noida, which is around 6km from the spot where the alleged terrorists, Farookh and Ismail, were killed. A press note issued by the director general of police headquarters in Lucknow said that after the vehicle was spotted near the Amity police outpost and the ATS men waved it to stop, the Maruti took a right turn and tried to speed off. A hot pursuit, exchange of fire and final assault by the men in uniform finally brought the curtains down on the ambush, it added. Noida police sources, however, maintain that the terrorists -- who ``confessed'' before dying that they were from Pakistan -- were chased for 25km starting from Lal Kuan area in Ghaziabad, where the informer first spotted their ``suspicious activities''. The nature of the tip-off too raises doubts. Asked how the police informer became suspicious, deputy inspector general (ATS) Lucknow, Rajiv Krishna, said he had seen them with an AK rifle. The barrel of the rifle was sticking out of an unzipped portion of a bag, he explained, adding that the informer was actually a relative of a police constable. ``The barrel of AK rifles has a typical `A' shaped target guide. The informer saw the bag and noticed that 'A' jutting out,'' explained Krishna. It appears from this version that the terrorists were incredibly indiscreet about the arms they were carrying for the mission. According to the ATS, the informer had even communicated to them his perception that the two suspects did not appear to be locals and their dialect had a `Muslim touch'. "Actually, the two suspects stopped at a tea-stall near Lal Kuan, and by sheer luck, they asked our informer about the route and distance to Delhi,'' Krishna said. The terrorists, with gun jutting out of a bag, asking an informer about the route to Delhi on Republic Day eve! Sheer coincidence or a badly constructed tale? If you add to this the claim that the terrorists were trying to enter the Capital in the early morning of R-Day -- when security was likely to be at its tightest ^ the version appears incredible. The ATS, however, is sticking to its guns. Said Brij Lal, additional director general of police, law and order, Crime and Anti-Terrorist Squad, "There is a bullet mark on the vehicle that was leading the chase. One of our jawans even suffered a bullet injury on his leg and is still in hospital. In fact, a surgery had to be performed on his wound on Monday to help it heal faster.'' ``As far as the suspects' car is concerned (which has no bullet marks), the cops chasing them targeted the lower portion of the car and it was because of this that one of the rear tyres was punctured, forcing them to abandon the vehicle and run for cover in the open,'' Brij Lal said. Interestingly, the encounter site in sector 97 Noida is the same spot where a criminal, Narendra, alias Kalu, was shot dead on December 18, 2008. He had allegedly murdered three businessmen in Baghpat a few weeks earlier. That's not all. Three other criminals, including gangster Birju Pahadi, were gunned down at exactly this spot on April 17 last year. A Noida police officer said, ``Well, that is a lonely spot where criminals can hide, absolutely undisturbed. Besides, these may just be a coincidence.'' http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Noida_encounter_Many_loopholes_in_police_theory/articleshow/4034140.cms From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 10:10:27 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:10:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Not again: Many loopholes in police theory of Noida encounter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901262040i45229fd0gcd70c9a06acce2f1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, That makes an interesting reading . What is more surprising is that the car had no bullet marks. In dense fog how did police find its target and the 'terrorists; did not. Why did the 'terrorists' not lob grenades. Pawan On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:40 AM, M Javed wrote: > Noida encouoter: Many loopholes in police theory > 27 Jan 2009, 0200 hrs IST, TNN > > NOIDA/LUCKNOW: Talk about coincidence. Two terrorists, out to stage a > Republic Day attack in Delhi, stopped at a tea stall to ask for > directions > from a man -- who just happened to be a police informer, related to a > constable. Not just that, the barrel of an AK gun was peeping out from > their bag. The hawk-eyed informer spotted this and promptly told the > cops. > > Too pat for comfort? Well, that's the version of the UP ATS. And > that's not the only thing that raises increasing doubts about the > veracity of the pre-dawn Noida encounter. The two alleged Pakistani > terrorists who were gunned down on Sunday morning weren't carrying > either a satellite phone or a mobile, the UP Anti-Terrorist Squad said > on Monday. > > This would make it a first among major terror strikes in recent times > where the attackers had no means of communicating among themselves or > receiving instructions from their handlers. > > Experts say, for terror outfits, communication is a crucial element of > any operation, be it the 26/11 Mumbai attack or the Delhi serial > blasts. > > That's not all. It now surfaces that there are two versions on where > the ATS team started chasing the militants. The ATS says the pursuit > began from Amity checkpost in Noida, which is around 6km from the spot > where the alleged terrorists, Farookh and Ismail, were killed. A press > note issued by the director general of police headquarters in Lucknow > said that after the vehicle was spotted near the Amity police outpost > and the ATS men waved it to stop, the Maruti took a right turn and > tried to speed off. A hot pursuit, exchange of fire and final assault > by the men in uniform finally brought the curtains down on the ambush, > it added. > > Noida police sources, however, maintain that the terrorists -- who > ``confessed'' before dying that they were from Pakistan -- were chased > for 25km starting from Lal Kuan area in Ghaziabad, where the informer > first spotted their ``suspicious activities''. > > The nature of the tip-off too raises doubts. Asked how the police > informer became suspicious, deputy inspector general (ATS) Lucknow, > Rajiv Krishna, said he had seen them with an AK rifle. The barrel of > the rifle was sticking out of an unzipped portion of a bag, he > explained, adding that the informer was actually a relative of a > police constable. ``The barrel of AK rifles has a typical `A' shaped > target guide. The informer saw the bag and noticed that 'A' jutting > out,'' explained Krishna. > > It appears from this version that the terrorists were incredibly > indiscreet about the arms they were carrying for the mission. > > According to the ATS, the informer had even communicated to them his > perception that the two suspects did not appear to be locals and their > dialect had a `Muslim touch'. > > "Actually, the two suspects stopped at a tea-stall near Lal Kuan, and > by sheer luck, they asked our informer about the route and distance to > Delhi,'' Krishna said. > > The terrorists, with gun jutting out of a bag, asking an informer > about the route to Delhi on Republic Day eve! Sheer coincidence or a > badly constructed tale? If you add to this the claim that the > terrorists were trying to enter the Capital in the early morning of > R-Day -- when security was likely to be at its tightest ^ the version > appears incredible. > > The ATS, however, is sticking to its guns. Said Brij Lal, additional > director general of police, law and order, Crime and Anti-Terrorist > Squad, "There is a bullet mark on the vehicle that was leading the > chase. One of our jawans even suffered a bullet injury on his leg and > is still in hospital. In fact, a surgery had to be performed on his > wound on Monday to help it heal faster.'' > > ``As far as the suspects' car is concerned (which has no bullet > marks), the cops chasing them targeted the lower portion of the car > and it was because of this that one of the rear tyres was punctured, > forcing them to abandon the vehicle and run for cover in the open,'' > Brij Lal said. > > Interestingly, the encounter site in sector 97 Noida is the same spot > where a criminal, Narendra, alias Kalu, was shot dead on December 18, > 2008. He had allegedly murdered three businessmen in Baghpat a few > weeks earlier. That's not all. Three other criminals, including > gangster Birju Pahadi, were gunned down at exactly this spot on April > 17 last year. > > A Noida police officer said, ``Well, that is a lonely spot where > criminals can hide, absolutely undisturbed. Besides, these may just be > a coincidence.'' > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Noida_encounter_Many_loopholes_in_police_theory/articleshow/4034140.cms > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 10:24:31 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:24:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Don=92t_see_=93Slumdog_Millionaire?= =?windows-1252?q?=94=2E_It_sucks!?= Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901262054x3a32f92cpc25d14e226863703@mail.gmail.com> Don't see "Slumdog Millionaire". It sucks! A phony poseur that has been made only to mock India for the viewing pleasure of the First World!! The emperor's new clothes! That's "Slumdog Millionaire" for you… Five minutes into this celebrated patchwork of illogical clichés and you are struck by the jarring dialogues. The cumbersome delivery in a language which doesn't come naturally to most of the actors sounds like someone scratching on walls with one's finger nails; it ruins the possibility of a connection… Had this film been made by an Indian director, it would've been trashed as a rotting old hat, which literally stands out only because of its stench, but since the man making it happens to be from the West, we're all left celebrating the emperor's new clothes. The film borrows an undoubtedly interesting narrative style – from films like "City of God" – but then uses it to weave in a collection of clichés from the Third World's underbelly for the viewing pleasure of a First World audience. The real slumdog in the movie is not the main protagonist but India as a whole… The makers and those celebrating this movie's hard-to-spot brilliance are actually serving up India as the accidental millionaire, which in fact happens to be a slumdog… and like shameless fools we are gloating over its success without realising that it makes a caricature out of India. The film does not have the sincerity and honesty of a "Salaam Bombay" or a "City of Joy" and nor does this slime covered fairy tale have the integrity or the rootedness of the above mentioned scripts, or even a "Shantaram" for that matter; the soundtrack and the performance of the child actors are the only bits in the film which live up to the hype. The real slumdogs who've hit the jackpot after wallowing in acres of human waste are the makers of this film who are now raking in millions while those court jesters who've critiqued the film and showered tributes and awards need to ask themselves why, scores of years after our independence, they still feel the need to suck up to the gora sahibs. It's not a question of xenophobia… it's definitely a well cinematographed film… but the film has no soul, especially after little Jamal has jumped off the train and become a teenager… The rest of the film is just a modern version of the West's view of India where slums, slumdogs and Bollywoodian clichés have replaced the elephants and snake charmers. It's a well made caricature of a country and a caricature can never be a Mona Lisa, for a masterpiece can't be one dimensional juxtaposition of sadistic extremes… and that's my grouse with the celebrations… And I say all this not because I don't know what is India. I know its poverty and the real statistics around it a little better than most others – especially the Indian film critics who have given "Slumdog…" an average of 4 to 4.5 stars! But the fact is that the film's entire narration seems like the germination of a terribly sadistic and complex mind with the sole aim of satisfying the western idea of India – and its new found growth instincts at their cost - and it is done through a combination of illogical happenings in order to show everything in a disgustingly negative vein. Not that it doesn't exist, but it surely doesn't exist in this fictitious manner. While "Salaam Bombay" had realism, "Slumdog…" is just every scrap of dirt picked up from every corner and piled up together to try and hit back at the growing might of India. And the awards almost seem like a sadistic effort to show the world – look we knew that this was India, and these are the slumdogs we are outsourcing our jobs to. It stinks of racial arrogance and it's such a shame now on second thought to see the Indian faces – including that of the undoubted master, AR Rahman - celebrating its success. There is nothing positive about the film and it seems that a deranged sadist has painted his insecure negative self in each and every character of the movie. It illogically shows every negative thing about India happening in the protagonist's life... slums, open-air lavatories, riots, underworld, prostitution, brothels, child labour, begging, blinding and maiming of kids to make them into 'better beggars', petty peddlers, traffic jams, irresponsible call centre executives… everything apart from western pedophiles roaming around in Indian streets!! And its winning of so many awards and nominations only goes on to prove strongly that the paradigm of cinema and recognition of films are in the hands of a few retarded imperialistic minds. It's a crying shame that our media hasn't seen through this ruse and is touting "Slumdog's" nominations to claim that India is shining at the Oscars, while in fact it is lauding a film that mocks and ridicules the idea of 'India', pigeonholing its identity into the straitjacket of depraved poverty for a global audience. When the West wanted Indians to embrace them and their companies to come to India and capture the lucrative markets, suddenly we had all the Indian women, some very beautiful and some not necessarily so, winning all the Miss Universe and Miss Worlds. Today, they are in a crisis and India is looking unstoppable despite its slums and poverty, and they are losing their businesses to us. Isn't it the best time to paint India as the Slumdog Millionaire?? All in all, the film is nothing but an endorsement of an erstwhile imperial mindset of the West and its blinkered vision of India. An English master has made an Indian slumdog. Don't even waste your time watching this film in the theatres. It sucks and there is nothing great in it as a film too. Amitabh Bachchan was spot on when he said that Bollywood has made far better mainstream films. Take out a DVD of one of his old films instead… http://arindamchaudhuri.blogspot.com/2009/01/dont-see-slumdog-millionaire-it-sucks.html From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Jan 27 13:56:18 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:56:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Graphic Novel : Public Domain Message-ID: <07F85CB3-8957-4FC0-A306-58C0E758D1B8@sarai.net> dear All, Here is a link to a graphic novel on public domain taken out by Duke University press. http://dukeupress.edu/news/Aoki/Aoki_web.pdf Some good drawings. warmly jeebesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 14:15:38 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:45:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901261135y759cdb40o7df9f200d3107419@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <957654.66750.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder Salim   You wrote:   """"" Read today's fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two terrorists."""""   Would you please clarify which "encounter" have you written about and on what basis you have declared it to be a "fake encounter".   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 1/27/09, indersalim wrote: From: indersalim Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? To: "reader-list" Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 1:05 AM Dear Taha, Your very interesting response is certainly my essay's second part. I will try write its third part. I wish there are many more reflection on the subject. The subject ' fake/original' is such that we can always safely conclude by saying ' to be concluded…' Earlier, this little essay-piece was triggered by Raza's serious reaction to his own fakes. But obviously I can not simply stop at criticizing him for his lack of humour, but we rightly need to march ahead and touch the deeper issues of identity etc. Today on 26th of Jan. in TOI we have an interview by poet-bureaucrat Ashok Vajpayee who also seemed quite bothered by collector's dilemmas, which intellectually I again see some sort of short-sightedness. What amuses me most in all this that the victim artists themselves fail to realize their own understanding of modern art, which is that art changes, even after the brush stops, even after the colours dry on the surface, even after the same set of eyes see it again, even after the same audience likes and then dislikes it… I believe, a time gap of 60 years is enough to make the artists to see her/his own works in a changed form. If not, I only see stagnation. We have to move ahead of Dada and Duchamp but I guess it is futile to continue with a Picasso etc. What is that which makes them dismiss the forgery in the first place: if not the money factor ? But wait; they are perhaps genuinely worried, because they are still on the same old track of creativity, which is creative indeed, but something, smog like, has crept into "all the pores" of that creativity, explicitly, which we call : conceptual. Radical thought is a perpetual flux of expression in material and Life directly. Unlike in the first part, where I took pains and found Jean Baudrillard's quotes sufficiently describing the collectors limitations, but now, I guess, we ought to intuitively enter the word 'conceptualism'. Meanwhile, can we suggest to represent ourselves with an image of say Dodo, or about to go extinct species such as Tiger, tied around our necks in our National Identity Cards? Will that be too heavy a weight for the Nationhood to bear? Do we need to realize intensely that things have shifted radically ? The Nation State needs a lie to sustain itself. Even legendry post-Kalinga King Ashoka required some violence to sustain his hold on power. It is inevitable. Read today's fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two terrorists. Now people know why we need 26th of Jan. and so Identity cards as well. I am interested in something which takes a departure from that line of identity which is too obvious, predictable. Perhaps, the notions of identities have shifted for the younger generation, and do this younger lot blindly let them impose their ways of identity on the rest. Do we need to join their anguish against the fakes, even when we don't paint. I do paint, as a true amateur, that is entirely different from what Raza and co. are into, but yes, 'photography' I believe, was free from this ' faking fear'. So I do, photographs, and would be amused if they are duplicated into anything else. I have no fears on that account, but I have my own fears. Yes, there are more bigger traps in the photography, but to grapple with those, do we need to get rid of those ghosts who are by now exposed? The mystery ghosts of Indian Modern art are on sale, and I have not no interest to buy one, even when I had such a huge money to invest, but I do look at them comically, which is not ordinary. They amuse me, they entertain me, but I don't see they are radical enough to unnerve the bigger ghosts of our existing times, which are much darker in nature. If we truly believe "every body is an artist" then we know how definitions don't work, and we also need to know why there is some sincere desire in people to identify themselves with something where money was a minor player, but their inner respective being was ' the hero . I am not certainly talking about some 'collective consciousness', whatever that means, but something which is 'singular' in nature. I usually write ' singular-i-tease' whenever we talk about that inner' people's desire', which rips ( Derrida ) anything, both sacred and profane. People do it, in their own beautiful ways. Please have a look at my second version of INDER SALIM poster, which has the very name indersalim ( sound ) written in sausages 'of beef and pork'. So, difficult to devour and relish, for those who are hard core believers of their respective identities: Hindu and Muslim. http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com ( image in the box ) In practice, I believe, the difference between original and fake is just a temporary one. I am talking about how ' our ways of living' are road rolling that earlier difference of identity which we held dearly near our hearts. Gizmos and technologies are rendering that difference into a mythical one. There is a profound regret, but perhaps, we don't have a way to go back to the past, but we have all the reason to see faults with modernity. Something else is happening right now. I have certainly no big expression to talk about that, but see, what a chaos we are in. So what is hidden but there, is perhaps vital for our ongoing ways of living. The style of an artist has indeed collapsed as something lasting. The National identity too has a limited function in that sense. The word ' conceptual' on the other hand transcends the boarder, and the style at the same time. It outwits the market oriented collector, and simultaneously questions the corporate cultured monster's hidden sprawl under the national tricolour. Unfortunately, the masses are helpless, but they deserve better than Nation merely as style, and a situation where artists are a rare commodity, like a Mercedes car which they only look at from a distance, for some moon like desire in their eyes. ( see, how MF Hussain, openly exhibits his hobby of collecting expensive cars in Dubai ) At national level, particularly in North India we have a strong difference which is based on 1947, and Partition. Both, the post colonial identity and Hindu Muslim difference is working towards the formation of National Identity. Here, again ' our ways of living are rendering that difference into insignificance. A time will come when we don't need fear to from this lack, of not being a Nationalist; which does not mean we need to be anti-nationalist for that, but something which is liberating, truly for our inner spiritual pursuits at the core. Right now we don't have a duplicate to a Mulla ji or a Brahmin ji who performs an original and obviously devastate millions of Indians with his fear mechanism. They even sabotage the strong structures of Democracy with their deep psychological reaches into the minds of people. They themselves carry a ritual flag in the name of God. They rob people and give power to God. They are intimately seated next to nation state which robs people to enrich itself. They were never originals in their original function in our society . But they had a style which they sell like our modern masters. This is where 'the Nation', if dependant on that style ' of partition and post colonial identity' then it performs as collector which is "impoverished and inhuman ". About 'idiocy' of our times: that we are drowned by the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies. Where is the original Monalisa stands today, if we were burn all millions and billions of photocopies of Monalisa ? Is anybody hearing, Raza who is too anguished about fakes of his originals. Nation is on the thorn, Some one is hungry at Seven. Artist is worried about originals. Muse is in her Heaven. All is right with the world With love and regards Inder salims On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Inder, > > Thank you for posting a wonderful essay. I look forward to the second part. > > I think this essay reflects a lot of issues, questions and dilemmas that I am grappling for last four years regarding the not so clear notion of identity. > > The similarities of debate in the art world, regarding fake and the original, seemingly creative solutions like Ela Menon's to deposit her thumbprint on her work, and the anxiety to identify the-one-as-the-one, are not that dissimilar, it seems to the current neurosis of many a nation state to introduce national identity cards. > > It was interesting to note how the writer of this essay choose Rosset's words to argue, "The real is not threatened by its double today it is threatened by its very idiocy". I am curious what Rosset's take would be on the crucial issue of national citizenship because essentially it is about identifying the real from the fake. > > To issue a national identity card, any state would have to act as a collector of personal and financial information. Of collectors he states, 'collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and inhuman about them'. Will he harbour the same opinoin for a nation state as a collector too? > > I wonder what prompted him to use such a strong language. As a reader one does not really understand why he articulates the act of collection as impoverished and inhuman. > > If for a moment we leave the sensitive nature of politics around the imagination of a nation state and talk purely in terms of politics around the art world, I would be happy to know your views in so far as the debate around the fake and original is concerned. > > As the essay suggests, one of the reasons for the existence of this anxiety seems to be money, the other seems to be ownership or maybe authorship. > > As an artist and a practitioner of an art form, to what extent, you think Inder, that one could formulate ideas about fake and original. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 15:24:35 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:24:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] We were molested in the name of God In-Reply-To: <881938.62963.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <881938.62963.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all Thanks to Rahul for posting the article. Where are the great Hindutva supporters now that some of their great followers have decided to play the moral brigade? Where are the great Hindu dharm-rakshaks who are now going to protect the Hindu dharma? The biggest nonsense ever I have heard in my life, was this statement made by Savarkar : 'Hinduism is just a part of Hindutva'. This is an utter nonsense. I am a Hindu, and can certainly say that Hindutva is nothing but a political philosophy, whereas Hinduism encompasses political, social, moral and mental character of life. And a bigotry like Hindutva can never be a part of Hinduism, or vice versa (as Savarkar claims). Hindutva is exclusivist, Hinduism is encompassing all. In Hinduism, one can be even agnostic or atheistic as well. Hindutva was coined by Savarkar, an athiest himself. And what he characterized Hindutva with is what is it stands now for. So, if to oppose Valentine's Day, it's necessary to beat boys and girls and force them to marry, so be it. If to stop so called 'obscene' dances, it is necessary to molest girls, and even strip them, so be it. So, if to organize political mobilization and win elections, using Ram Mandir as an election issue off and on as per requirement, even at the cost of demolition of Babri Masjid and alienating Muslims, if it has to be done, an important component of India's population, so be it. So, if to rape Muslim women, cut their foetus if they are pregnant, and even destroy their livelihoods and hope of peaceful life is required in 'avenge' for Godhra, so be it. Hinduism never supports rape. No text in Hindu religion ever supports rape. No practice in any of the different strands of Hinduism ever asks for rape. Neither does it support molestation and stripping of women to insult them or to take 'revenge'. And most of all, Hindusim neither supports amoral or immoral politics. But Hindutva certainly does. Hinduism never targets Islam and Christianity, Hindutva certainly does.Hinduism accepts diversity in different strands of beliefs and gods worshipped across different regions and castes, but Hindutva doesn't. There are great fools in this country, led by the upper middle class Hindus and upper castes as well, who are themselves fooled, and have set on a mission to fool millions of Hindus (not within their reach as of present), in the name of Hindutva, only for vote bank and caste hegemony establishment purposes. It's time we rid ourselves of this foolish fiefdom set in our minds, and open it to understand what true Hinduism is, and accept it's diversity. It's neither the BJP-VHP-RSS-Bajrang Dal parivar's responsibility nor their right to stop anyone from celebrating Valentine's day or dancing in pubs. Who are they to do that? Gods or what? Even Lord Ram would oppose that. And certainly, if they don't have anybody to give roses to, it's not their right to stop us from giving them. And as for youngsters going astray, yes, youngsters expriencing sex at an early age and having drugs as well, is and will certainly be a moral harm for the society, because by and large, they may not understand the consequences of what they are doing. But that does not mean beating them to hell, either by these goons by their own parents. It comes from compassion, understanding and love. It's unfortunate that all of us have been withheld from religious education across schools, otherwise all of us would have learnt the true teachings of different religions. And the result we pay is some goons trying to preserve their religion and culture through 'Hindutva' and 'Jihad'. Is the government listening? Regards Rakesh PS : And ironically, in Bhopal (the city I live in), after bullying couples throughout the day, the great Bajrang Dal activists can be found at night dining with their girlfriends, celebrating the very same Valentine's day( which they were fighting against in the morning). A bigger moral disaster I believe than those consuming drugs and having unprotected sex. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 17:49:32 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:19:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign Promises Message-ID: <659917.9212.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Interesting exercise.   When can we have similar public accounting of 'campaign promises' done by the Media in India and in a non-partisan manner? Will they dare to do so?   1.  "The latest updates to the Obameter" at http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/   2. 26 pages of 509 listed 'promises'. Starting from http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/   Kshmendra   From noreply at nybooks.com Tue Jan 27 17:49:41 2009 From: noreply at nybooks.com (The New York Review of Books) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:19:41 GMT Subject: [Reader-list] Google & the Future of Books (February 12, 2009) Message-ID: <200901271219.n0RCJfcV003487@pointer.furfly.com> Sabitha TP thought you would be interested in the following article from The New York Review of Books. -- The New York Review of Books February 12, 2009 http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22281?email Google & the Future of Books By Robert Darnton How can we navigate through the information landscape that is only beginning to come into view? The question is more urgent than ever following the recent settlement between Google and the authors and publishers who were suing it for alleged breach of copyright. For the last four years, Google has been digitizing millions of books, including many covered by copyright, from the collections of major research libraries, and making the texts searchable online. The authors and publishers objected that digitizing constituted a violation of their copyrights. After lengthy negotiations, the plaintiffs and Google agreed on a settlement, which will have a profound effect on the way books reach readers for the foreseeable future. What will that future be? -------------------- If you enjoy this article, you may be interested in one of the Review's free email newsletters: http://www.nybooks.com/newsletters You can also keep up to date with our RSS feed: http://feeds.feedburner.com/nybooks This message was sent to you using the "email to a friend" feature on http://www.nybooks.com. The New York Review of Books is not responsible for the contents of this message. From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 18:50:36 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:50:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <957654.66750.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <47e122a70901261135y759cdb40o7df9f200d3107419@mail.gmail.com> <957654.66750.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> dear Kshmendra thanks my source of information is Times of India newspaper, the way it was carried out, it looks fake, but why dont we expect a fake encounter from the State ? is not custodial death a well known feature in our system of governance, and it is almost acceptable in our societal discourse. that is that, but i would really love to hear you reflecting on other finer points about fake/original regards and love is On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder Salim > > You wrote: > > """"" Read today's fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two > terrorists.""""" > > Would you please clarify which "encounter" have you written about and on > what basis you have declared it to be a "fake encounter". > > Kshmendra > > --- On Tue, 1/27/09, indersalim wrote: > > From: indersalim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be > forged unless you act illegally? > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 1:05 AM > > Dear Taha, > > Your very interesting response is certainly my essay's second part. I > will try write its third part. I wish there are many more reflection > on the subject. The subject ' fake/original' is such that we can > always safely conclude by saying ' to be concluded…' > > Earlier, this little essay-piece was triggered by Raza's serious > reaction to his own fakes. But obviously I can not simply stop at > criticizing him for his lack of humour, but we rightly need to march > ahead and touch the deeper issues of identity etc. Today on 26th of > Jan. in TOI we have an interview by poet-bureaucrat Ashok Vajpayee who > also seemed quite bothered by collector's dilemmas, which > intellectually I again see some sort of short-sightedness. What > amuses me most in all this that the victim artists themselves fail to > realize their own understanding of modern art, which is that art > changes, even after the brush stops, even after the colours dry on the > surface, even after the same set of eyes see it again, even after the > same audience likes and then dislikes it… > > I believe, a time gap of 60 years is enough to make the artists to > see her/his own works in a changed form. If not, I only see > stagnation. We have to move ahead of Dada and Duchamp but I guess it > is futile to continue with a Picasso etc. What is that which makes > them dismiss the forgery in the first place: if not the money factor ? > > But wait; they are perhaps genuinely worried, because they are still > on the same old track of creativity, which is creative indeed, but > something, smog like, has crept into "all the pores" of that > creativity, explicitly, which we call : conceptual. > Radical thought is a perpetual flux of expression in material and Life > directly. > > Unlike in the first part, where I took pains and found Jean > Baudrillard's quotes sufficiently describing the collectors > limitations, but now, I guess, we ought to intuitively enter the > word 'conceptualism'. > > Meanwhile, can we suggest to represent ourselves with an image of say > Dodo, or about to go extinct species such as Tiger, tied around our > necks in our National Identity Cards? Will that be too heavy a weight > for the Nationhood to bear? Do we need to realize intensely that > things have shifted radically ? The Nation State needs a lie to > sustain itself. Even legendry post-Kalinga King Ashoka required some > violence to sustain his hold on power. It is inevitable. Read today's > fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two terrorists. Now > people know why we need 26th of Jan. and so Identity cards as well. I > am interested in something which takes a departure from that line of > identity which is too obvious, predictable. > > Perhaps, the notions of identities have shifted for the younger > generation, and do this younger lot blindly let them impose their ways > of identity on the rest. Do we need to join their anguish against the > fakes, even when we don't paint. I do paint, as a true amateur, that > is entirely different from what Raza and co. are into, but yes, > 'photography' I believe, was free from this ' faking fear'. So > I do, > photographs, and would be amused if they are duplicated into anything > else. I have no fears on that account, but I have my own fears. > > Yes, there are more bigger traps in the photography, but to grapple > with those, do we need to get rid of those ghosts who are by now > exposed? The mystery ghosts of Indian Modern art are on sale, and I > have not no interest to buy one, even when I had such a huge money to > invest, but I do look at them comically, which is not ordinary. They > amuse me, they entertain me, but I don't see they are radical enough > to unnerve the bigger ghosts of our existing times, which are much > darker in nature. > > If we truly believe "every body is an artist" then we know how > definitions don't work, and we also need to know why there is some > sincere desire in people to identify themselves with something where > money was a minor player, but their inner respective being was ' the > hero . I am not certainly talking about some 'collective > consciousness', whatever that means, but something which is > 'singular' > in nature. I usually write ' singular-i-tease' whenever we talk about > that inner' people's desire', which rips ( Derrida ) anything, both > sacred and profane. People do it, in their own beautiful ways. > > Please have a look at my second version of INDER SALIM poster, which > has the very name indersalim ( sound ) written in sausages 'of beef > and pork'. So, difficult to devour and relish, for those who are hard > core believers of their respective identities: Hindu and Muslim. > http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com ( image in the box ) > > In practice, I believe, the difference between original and fake is > just a temporary one. I am talking about how ' our ways of living' > are road rolling that earlier difference of identity which we held > dearly near our hearts. Gizmos and technologies are rendering that > difference into a mythical one. There is a profound regret, but > perhaps, we don't have a way to go back to the past, but we have all > the reason to see faults with modernity. Something else is happening > right now. I have certainly no big expression to talk about that, but > see, what a chaos we are in. So what is hidden but there, is perhaps > vital for our ongoing ways of living. > > The style of an artist has indeed collapsed as something lasting. The > National identity too has a limited function in that sense. The word ' > conceptual' on the other hand transcends the boarder, and the style at > the same time. It outwits the market oriented collector, and > simultaneously questions the corporate cultured monster's hidden > sprawl under the national tricolour. Unfortunately, the masses are > helpless, but they deserve better than Nation merely as style, and a > situation where artists are a rare commodity, like a Mercedes car > which they only look at from a distance, for some moon like desire in > their eyes. ( see, how MF Hussain, openly exhibits his hobby of > collecting expensive cars in Dubai ) > > At national level, particularly in North India we have a strong > difference which is based on 1947, and Partition. Both, the post > colonial identity and Hindu Muslim difference is working towards the > formation of National Identity. Here, again ' our ways of living are > rendering that difference into insignificance. A time will come when > we don't need fear to from this lack, of not being a Nationalist; > which does not mean we need to be anti-nationalist for that, but > something which is liberating, truly for our inner spiritual pursuits > at the core. > > Right now we don't have a duplicate to a Mulla ji or a Brahmin ji who > performs an original and obviously devastate millions of Indians with > his fear mechanism. They even sabotage the strong structures of > Democracy with their deep psychological reaches into the minds of > people. They themselves carry a ritual flag in the name of God. They > rob people and give power to God. They are intimately seated next to > nation state which robs people to enrich itself. They were never > originals in their original function in our society . But they had a > style which they sell like our modern masters. This is where 'the > Nation', if dependant on that style ' of partition and post colonial > identity' then it performs as collector which is "impoverished and > inhuman ". > > About 'idiocy' of our times: that we are drowned by the photocopies > of the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies. Where is the > original Monalisa stands today, if we were burn all millions and > billions of photocopies of Monalisa ? > > Is anybody hearing, Raza who is too anguished about fakes of his originals. > > Nation is on the thorn, Some one is hungry at Seven. Artist is worried > about originals. > Muse is in her Heaven. All is right with the world > > With love and regards > Inder salims > > > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Inder, >> >> Thank you for posting a wonderful essay. I look forward to the second > part. >> >> I think this essay reflects a lot of issues, questions and dilemmas that I > am grappling for last four years regarding the not so clear notion of > identity. >> >> The similarities of debate in the art world, regarding fake and the > original, seemingly creative solutions like Ela Menon's to deposit her > thumbprint on her work, and the anxiety to identify the-one-as-the-one, are > not > that dissimilar, it seems to the current neurosis of many a nation state to > introduce national identity cards. >> >> It was interesting to note how the writer of this essay choose > Rosset's words to argue, "The real is not threatened by its double > today it is threatened by its very idiocy". I am curious what Rosset's > take would be on the crucial issue of national citizenship because > essentially > it is about identifying the real from the fake. >> >> To issue a national identity card, any state would have to act as a > collector of personal and financial information. Of collectors he states, > 'collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and > inhuman about them'. Will he harbour the same opinoin for a nation state as > a collector too? >> >> I wonder what prompted him to use such a strong language. As a reader one > does not really understand why he articulates the act of collection as > impoverished and inhuman. >> >> If for a moment we leave the sensitive nature of politics around the > imagination of a nation state and talk purely in terms of politics around > the > art world, I would be happy to know your views in so far as the debate > around > the fake and original is concerned. >> >> As the essay suggests, one of the reasons for the existence of this > anxiety seems to be money, the other seems to be ownership or maybe > authorship. >> >> As an artist and a practitioner of an art form, to what extent, you think > Inder, that one could formulate ideas about fake and original. >> >> Warm regards >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rama.sangye at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 19:13:25 2009 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:13:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901260351p946a77dh75ead1cb2aa704e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901251117k530362e1ra6edf79411eede37@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70901252328y16098670hbc1e41e732806e27@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901260351p946a77dh75ead1cb2aa704e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ade4a8f0901270543h28d48691lbd4d07693df08d7@mail.gmail.com> Lawrence Weschler, Onward and Upward with the Arts, "VALUE I-A FOOL'S QUESTIONS," The New Yorker, January 18, 1988, p. 33 ABSTRACT About J.S.G. Boggs, a young artist who draws pictures of currency which he then attempts to sell for the face value of currency which he then attempts to sell for the face value of the note depicted, usually in a retail transaction... The receipts & change from these transactions, along with the drawing itself (once it has been purchased by a collector)becomes the artwork... Tells how, in 1986, he was arrested in London & charged with 4 counts of fogery & counterfeiting... "As far as I'm concerned, money is more beautiful & highly developed & aesthetically satisfying than the print works of all but a few modern artists. And a dollar bill is a print: it's a unique, numbered edition..." Anthropologists have all sorts of theories about the origins of money. One is that money had its roots in rituals of sacrifice, but as time passed, this substitution formed a model for all later substitutions... Boggs is by no means the 1st artist to have stumbled into these precincts. Jackson Pollack is said to have settled his drink bills with paintings (the lucky bartender!) & Picasso would write out checks, then dash off smart little doodles on their backs--the checks were seldom cashed. Writer interviews Rudy Demenga, Boggs' Basel dealer. Tells about the events leading up to his trial in England. ...... Lawrence Weschler, Onward and Upward with the Arts, "VALUE II-CONFUSIONS AND ANXIETIES," The New Yorker, January 25, 1988, p. 88 ABSTRACT About the trial, in England, of J.S.G. Boggs, a young American artist who likes to draw money(that is, to create fairly exact, correct-scale color representations of existing denominations of actual currency) & then "spend" his drawings(that is, find people who will accept them "at face value," in lieu of real cash, for goods & services & provide him with a receipt & change). On Oct. 31, 1986, a show including some of his drawings at the Young. Unknowns Gallery in London, was raided by inspectors from the National Central Office for the Suppression of Counterfeit Currency, housed in New Scotland Yard... Writer tells about William Harnett, a 19th century American artist who specialized in trompe-l-oeil canvases & was arrested by the Secret Service in 1886, partly because they believed he was the infamous Jim the Penman. This was not long after the heyday of counterfeiting in America. By some estimates, almost half of the circulating paper in America at one point had been counterfeit... Boggs' solicitor, Mark Stephens, had managed to procure for him the services of the barrister Geoffrey Robertson, a famous advocate of civil liberties... Robertson believed the trial was merely a futile prelude to his heart's desire: an appeal of the Boggs case before the Strasbourg court. Tells how an English jury decided the case in his favor. ..... Lawrence Weschler, Onward and Upward with the Arts, "MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING," The New Yorker, January 18, 1993, p. 38 About J.S.G. Boggs, whose "Project: Pittsburgh" involves the spending of a million dollars of Boggs's art. It looks like money on one side, and on the other has thumb-print spaces for five people to mark after they have exchanged the bill. The Treasury Department does not like this idea very much. Tells about their raid on his office at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. .... Lawrence Weschler, Dept. of Amplification, "A Contest of Values," The New Yorker, May 10, 1999, p. 52 About the latest legal scrapes of currency artist J.S.G. Boggs, 44... For over a decade now, his consuming passion has been money—or, perhaps more precisely, value. What he likes to do is draw money—actual paper notes, one-sided but real size, in the denominations of standard currencies from all over the world—and then try to spend those drawings. There are many collectors avid to buy such drawings, but Boggs refuses to sell them. Rather, he prefers to find businessmen, hoteliers, restaurateurs, motorcycle salesmen, and the like who will accept his work in lieu of cash payment, as part of elaborately choreographed transactions, complete with receipts and proper change (which he is entirely willing to sell, at a hefty markup, to collectors, who, in turn, are invited to peruse the documentation for clues to the location of the most recent drawings)... Tells how the American Secret Service became interested in Boggs's artistry in the late eighties... To date, he figures he's "spent" well in excess of a million dollars' worth of his own drawings... Describes how the government is trying to stop him, including a trial before U.S. District Court Judge Royce Lamberth... Boggs describes contacting Thomas Raymond Hipschen, the lead picture engraver with the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, in Washington. He's the incredible artist who created the engravings for the Franklin on the new hundred-dollar bill, the Grant on the new fifty, and the Jackson on the new twenty..... Hipschen traded a Boggs drawing for a steel-engraved portrait of himself, actual-money scale... "And I've now made eight impressions of this engraving as the basis for eight one-hundred-thousand-dollar-bill drawings. That's how I intend to pay [his legal bills]—and...that's how intend to go on paying." Boggs smiled shyly. I suddenly realized that whether or not the Supreme Court agreed to entertain this particular suit of Boggs's—and if it did, no matter how it ruled—the loser was likely to go on mounting fresh challenges, ad infinitum, since this was a case in which both sides were in a position to go on covering all their costs simply by printing fresh money. ............. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 19:35:37 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:05:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder Salim   The TOI and other news reports certainly have raised doubts but none has declared it as a "fake encounter".     Dont you think it is irresponsible for any serious commentator to make a declaration of it being a "fake encounter" on the basis of what you have described as "the way it was carried out, it looks fake".   No I do not expect fake encounter from the State. Nor do I expect or find acceptable "custodial deaths". That it happens is another thing altogether which needs to be rectified and stopped (in any country). Your statement that it is a "part of" the system of governance in India is ridiculous. The exceptions cannot be stretched into being called the norm.   In any case, it certainly does does not mean that any such incident is automatically declared as being a "fake encounter" or a "custodial death" on the basis of the precedence of some examples and without confirmation from properly evidenced investigation.   This particular incident may or may not be a "fake encounter" but declaring it as being so on the basis of  "loopholes" and "suspicions" from news reports seems to be frivolous at the least and of devious intent at it's worst.   As regards "reflecting on other finer points about fake/original", I am not accomplished enough to participate in such highly intellectual academic discussions.    Kshmendra      --- On Tue, 1/27/09, indersalim wrote: From: indersalim Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? To: "reader-list" Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 6:50 PM dear Kshmendra thanks my source of information is Times of India newspaper, the way it was carried out, it looks fake, but why dont we expect a fake encounter from the State ? is not custodial death a well known feature in our system of governance, and it is almost acceptable in our societal discourse. that is that, but i would really love to hear you reflecting on other finer points about fake/original regards and love is On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder Salim > > You wrote: > > """"" Read today's fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two > terrorists.""""" > > Would you please clarify which "encounter" have you written about and on > what basis you have declared it to be a "fake encounter". > > Kshmendra > > --- On Tue, 1/27/09, indersalim wrote: > > From: indersalim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be > forged unless you act illegally? > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 1:05 AM > > Dear Taha, > > Your very interesting response is certainly my essay's second part. I > will try write its third part. I wish there are many more reflection > on the subject. The subject ' fake/original' is such that we can > always safely conclude by saying ' to be concluded…' > > Earlier, this little essay-piece was triggered by Raza's serious > reaction to his own fakes. But obviously I can not simply stop at > criticizing him for his lack of humour, but we rightly need to march > ahead and touch the deeper issues of identity etc. Today on 26th of > Jan. in TOI we have an interview by poet-bureaucrat Ashok Vajpayee who > also seemed quite bothered by collector's dilemmas, which > intellectually I again see some sort of short-sightedness. What > amuses me most in all this that the victim artists themselves fail to > realize their own understanding of modern art, which is that art > changes, even after the brush stops, even after the colours dry on the > surface, even after the same set of eyes see it again, even after the > same audience likes and then dislikes it… > > I believe, a time gap of 60 years is enough to make the artists to > see her/his own works in a changed form. If not, I only see > stagnation. We have to move ahead of Dada and Duchamp but I guess it > is futile to continue with a Picasso etc. What is that which makes > them dismiss the forgery in the first place: if not the money factor ? > > But wait; they are perhaps genuinely worried, because they are still > on the same old track of creativity, which is creative indeed, but > something, smog like, has crept into "all the pores" of that > creativity, explicitly, which we call : conceptual. > Radical thought is a perpetual flux of expression in material and Life > directly. > > Unlike in the first part, where I took pains and found Jean > Baudrillard's quotes sufficiently describing the collectors > limitations, but now, I guess, we ought to intuitively enter the > word 'conceptualism'. > > Meanwhile, can we suggest to represent ourselves with an image of say > Dodo, or about to go extinct species such as Tiger, tied around our > necks in our National Identity Cards? Will that be too heavy a weight > for the Nationhood to bear? Do we need to realize intensely that > things have shifted radically ? The Nation State needs a lie to > sustain itself. Even legendry post-Kalinga King Ashoka required some > violence to sustain his hold on power. It is inevitable. Read today's > fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two terrorists. Now > people know why we need 26th of Jan. and so Identity cards as well. I > am interested in something which takes a departure from that line of > identity which is too obvious, predictable. > > Perhaps, the notions of identities have shifted for the younger > generation, and do this younger lot blindly let them impose their ways > of identity on the rest. Do we need to join their anguish against the > fakes, even when we don't paint. I do paint, as a true amateur, that > is entirely different from what Raza and co. are into, but yes, > 'photography' I believe, was free from this ' faking fear'. So > I do, > photographs, and would be amused if they are duplicated into anything > else. I have no fears on that account, but I have my own fears. > > Yes, there are more bigger traps in the photography, but to grapple > with those, do we need to get rid of those ghosts who are by now > exposed? The mystery ghosts of Indian Modern art are on sale, and I > have not no interest to buy one, even when I had such a huge money to > invest, but I do look at them comically, which is not ordinary. They > amuse me, they entertain me, but I don't see they are radical enough > to unnerve the bigger ghosts of our existing times, which are much > darker in nature. > > If we truly believe "every body is an artist" then we know how > definitions don't work, and we also need to know why there is some > sincere desire in people to identify themselves with something where > money was a minor player, but their inner respective being was ' the > hero . I am not certainly talking about some 'collective > consciousness', whatever that means, but something which is > 'singular' > in nature. I usually write ' singular-i-tease' whenever we talk about > that inner' people's desire', which rips ( Derrida ) anything, both > sacred and profane. People do it, in their own beautiful ways. > > Please have a look at my second version of INDER SALIM poster, which > has the very name indersalim ( sound ) written in sausages 'of beef > and pork'. So, difficult to devour and relish, for those who are hard > core believers of their respective identities: Hindu and Muslim. > http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com ( image in the box ) > > In practice, I believe, the difference between original and fake is > just a temporary one. I am talking about how ' our ways of living' > are road rolling that earlier difference of identity which we held > dearly near our hearts. Gizmos and technologies are rendering that > difference into a mythical one. There is a profound regret, but > perhaps, we don't have a way to go back to the past, but we have all > the reason to see faults with modernity. Something else is happening > right now. I have certainly no big expression to talk about that, but > see, what a chaos we are in. So what is hidden but there, is perhaps > vital for our ongoing ways of living. > > The style of an artist has indeed collapsed as something lasting. The > National identity too has a limited function in that sense. The word ' > conceptual' on the other hand transcends the boarder, and the style at > the same time. It outwits the market oriented collector, and > simultaneously questions the corporate cultured monster's hidden > sprawl under the national tricolour. Unfortunately, the masses are > helpless, but they deserve better than Nation merely as style, and a > situation where artists are a rare commodity, like a Mercedes car > which they only look at from a distance, for some moon like desire in > their eyes. ( see, how MF Hussain, openly exhibits his hobby of > collecting expensive cars in Dubai ) > > At national level, particularly in North India we have a strong > difference which is based on 1947, and Partition. Both, the post > colonial identity and Hindu Muslim difference is working towards the > formation of National Identity. Here, again ' our ways of living are > rendering that difference into insignificance. A time will come when > we don't need fear to from this lack, of not being a Nationalist; > which does not mean we need to be anti-nationalist for that, but > something which is liberating, truly for our inner spiritual pursuits > at the core. > > Right now we don't have a duplicate to a Mulla ji or a Brahmin ji who > performs an original and obviously devastate millions of Indians with > his fear mechanism. They even sabotage the strong structures of > Democracy with their deep psychological reaches into the minds of > people. They themselves carry a ritual flag in the name of God. They > rob people and give power to God. They are intimately seated next to > nation state which robs people to enrich itself. They were never > originals in their original function in our society . But they had a > style which they sell like our modern masters. This is where 'the > Nation', if dependant on that style ' of partition and post colonial > identity' then it performs as collector which is "impoverished and > inhuman ". > > About 'idiocy' of our times: that we are drowned by the photocopies > of the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies. Where is the > original Monalisa stands today, if we were burn all millions and > billions of photocopies of Monalisa ? > > Is anybody hearing, Raza who is too anguished about fakes of his originals. > > Nation is on the thorn, Some one is hungry at Seven. Artist is worried > about originals. > Muse is in her Heaven. All is right with the world > > With love and regards > Inder salims > > > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Inder, >> >> Thank you for posting a wonderful essay. I look forward to the second > part. >> >> I think this essay reflects a lot of issues, questions and dilemmas that I > am grappling for last four years regarding the not so clear notion of > identity. >> >> The similarities of debate in the art world, regarding fake and the > original, seemingly creative solutions like Ela Menon's to deposit her > thumbprint on her work, and the anxiety to identify the-one-as-the-one, are > not > that dissimilar, it seems to the current neurosis of many a nation state to > introduce national identity cards. >> >> It was interesting to note how the writer of this essay choose > Rosset's words to argue, "The real is not threatened by its double > today it is threatened by its very idiocy". I am curious what Rosset's > take would be on the crucial issue of national citizenship because > essentially > it is about identifying the real from the fake. >> >> To issue a national identity card, any state would have to act as a > collector of personal and financial information. Of collectors he states, > 'collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and > inhuman about them'. Will he harbour the same opinoin for a nation state as > a collector too? >> >> I wonder what prompted him to use such a strong language. As a reader one > does not really understand why he articulates the act of collection as > impoverished and inhuman. >> >> If for a moment we leave the sensitive nature of politics around the > imagination of a nation state and talk purely in terms of politics around > the > art world, I would be happy to know your views in so far as the debate > around > the fake and original is concerned. >> >> As the essay suggests, one of the reasons for the existence of this > anxiety seems to be money, the other seems to be ownership or maybe > authorship. >> >> As an artist and a practitioner of an art form, to what extent, you think > Inder, that one could formulate ideas about fake and original. >> >> Warm regards >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From habersacksarah at gmx.at Tue Jan 27 21:17:45 2009 From: habersacksarah at gmx.at (Sarah Habersack) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:47:45 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] SOCIAL POLIS Small grants - CALL for STAKEHOLDER CONTRIBUTIONS Message-ID: <20090127154745.189000@gmx.net> Dear Readerlist! Here is a call for contributions for the project Social Polis: Social platform on cities and social cohesion. For further information please see www.socialpolis.eu Best regards Sarah -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >Dear Colleagues and Friends, > >SOCIAL POLIS (7th Framework Programme) is now >announcing the CALL for STAKEHOLDER >CONTRIBUTIONS. All non-academic groups and >organisations from NGO, community, private and, >policy sectors are invited to apply for a small >grant (up to 3,000 €) to produce a contribution >to the research, policymaking, or urban practice >in the areas relevant to ‘Cities and Social >Cohesion’. Successful applicants will be invited >to present their contributions at the large >scale SOCIAL POLIS Stakeholder Conference in Vienna (11-12 May 2009). > > >Proposals might include: >- research papers and reports; >- multimedia formats (presentations, films, installations); >- exhibitions. > > >Contributions may be focused on various issues >related to cities and Social Cohesion referring >to the SOCIAL POLIS Focused Research Agendas, >Existential Fields (please see: >http://www.socialpolis.eu), >or other topics which have not yet been included >in the activities of the platform. > >1. Two SOCIAL POLIS Focused Research agendas share the following themes: >1) Producing urban social cohesion in the face >of global changes, migration, and increasing diversity of cities. >2) Developing a plural economic approach to >tackle the urban economic divide, social >exclusion, and fragmentation of cities. >3) Rethinking cities and urban discourses in the ecological age. >4) Understanding urban practices: social >participation, socially creative strategies and neighbourhood development. >5) Governing cities as a whole. > >2. SOCIAL POLIS Existential Fields: >EF 1: Welfare and Social Services; >EF 2: Labour Markets and Economic Development; >EF 3: Housing, Neighbourhood, and Health; >EF 4: Mobility, Telecommunications, Security; >EF 5: Urban Ecology and Environment; >EF 6: Governance; >EF 7: Education and Training; >EF 8: Social and Spatial Inequalities on Urban and Regional Level; >EF 9: Diversity and Identity; >EF 10: Creativity and Innovation; >EF 11: Neighbourhood Development and Grassroots Initiatives; >EF 12: Social Cohesion and the City as a Whole. > >3. Other topics related to Cities and Social >Cohesion not addressed by SOCIAL POLIS yet, which may among others include: >• The socio-spatial production of tolerance. (Napoli) >• Evaluation of effectiveness of >policies towards social cohesion in cities: >factors contributing to success/failure of urban >policies as to social cohesive outcomes. (Milan) >• Integrating policies of urban >restructuring, development and social inclusion >as a determinant of social cohesion. (Napoli) >• Telecommunication systems and social cohesion in Europe. (Geoff) >• The impact of changing welfare >infrastructure in East European cities. (Stuart) > > >Proposals should include the following: >• name(s) and contact information for all applicants; >• the title of the paper or multimedia contribution; >• abstract (500-600 words); >• a brief justification of the proposed topic and format (200 words); >• plans for dissemination (100 words); >• short statement on the particular >benefits of the proposed contribution for SOCIAL >POLIS, as well as for the research, policy, or >action agenda in the area of ‘Cities and Social Cohesion (100 words). >• budget (which must not exceed 3,000 €). > > >For more information on this call for >stakeholder contributions please contact us >directly. If you wish to discuss an idea for >your contribution, please contact Frank Moulaert >at frank.moulaert at skynet.be >Proposals are due 10 February 2009. They should >be submitted electronically to Dr Stuart Cameron >at s.j.cameron at newcastle.ac.uk > >Please forward this call for contributions to anyone who may be interested. > >Looking forward to hearing from you, > >Frank Moulaert >Jean Hillier >Andreas Novy >Stuart Cameron >Konrad Miciukiewicz > >Dr Konrad Miciukiewicz >Global Urban Research Unit >School of Architecture, Planning and Landscape >Newcastle University >Claremont Tower >Newcastle upon Tyne >NE1 7RU >United Kingdom >tel: +44 (0)191 222 6018 -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Jan 27 21:36:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:06:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Can citizens really trust a government with their personal data? Message-ID: <65be9bf40901270806x5c631cdew55081a61c541650f@mail.gmail.com> Dear all When a national identity card project goes for a national roll out, citizens are asked to share their personal information. I see nothing wrong in such an exercise. A welfare state needs to know who are the most deserving recipients of aid before releasing necessary funds. What I find unresolved in this process is the desire for a central database, because we do not know how competent nation states are in taking care of information entrusted with them. In this regard, please, consider a news story below, about a man called, Chris Ogle finding US troops data on a MP3 in a thrift shop in Oklahoma. Now the experts are obviously blaming, 'just slack administrative procedures' for this leak. We can obviously dismiss this story as an 'isolated incident' but we can also ask, can we really trust a government with our personal data? 'Isolated incident' makes for good rhetoric perhaps but can we allow an infringement of trust with no mechanism of redress? If the data belonging to the personnel of a highly efficient organization like the US army is not safe, then with how much of confidence can we claim that personal, private data belonging to a billion Indians will be safely entered and coded and protected? Regards Taha http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7853213.stm *A New Zealand man says he found confidential data about US military personnel on an MP3 player he bought from a thrift shop in Oklahoma.* Chris Ogle, 29, said: "The more I look at it, the more I see and the less I think I should be looking." The files included names and telephone numbers of American soldiers, according to reports by TV New Zealand. One expert says the files are unlikely to compromise security, as most of them are from 2005. Some included a warning that the release of its contents is "prohibited by federal law". *Embarrassment* As well as personal details of US soldiers, such as social security numbers, the files also listed pregnant female troops and apparent mission briefings in Afghanistan. Peter Cozens, director of the Centre for Strategic Studies, New Zealand, said the information should not be in the public domain but it did not appear likely to affect US national security, according to the Associated Press news agency. "This is just slack administrative procedures which are indeed a cause of embarrassment," he said. Mr Ogle, from Whangarei, said he would hand the files to US officials if asked. There was no comment from the US Embassy in New Zealand. Similar breaches occurred in Afghanistan in 2006, when US investigators reportedly bought back stolen flash drives, that contained sensitive military data, from shops outside a main US base in Bagram, according to AP. From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 00:09:59 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:09:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901271039m59dec902kd58b480568db526e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra yes, one wishes that the Govt. is serious about the procedures laid in our constitution to protect the interests of each and every citizen of this counrty. But alas theory is different from practice. You see, 26/11 never looked fake from the word go. but this one begins with doubt, and the newspapers are openly asking some valid questions. Do you have answers? But we know there is really no system to ask the police, even the judiciary will take a lenient view keeping in view security concerns,... anyway, thanks , but i guess, you are really competent enough to speak on the subject fake/original. it is open ended subject and not confined to art only, and above all, you know i am not an academician, regards love is Dear Taha I am always thankful for a response like yours, primarily because I get a chance to stretch my imagination. You have indeed opened more space to look deeper into our structures of identity, both inner and outer. I am really keen to see more such comments on this subject: fake/original. I quote you, "The argument, back then, was simple, that till 19th century, there was a division between the subject and the object in so far as the physical sciences were concerned". See, it is only now that we see it like that, because the complexities of times were not as heavy on their heads as they are now. This is precisely what will happen to Raza's worry about fake/original if it lapses into a status-quo of sorts, which is that a fake is superior than a fake. I see walls of this difference collapsing, whether good or bad, but something is changing, which not only affects ' the style' of an particular painter of Modern era, but also our set of different identities, such as religion, ethnicities gender etc. But, see how nation state's interests are taken care of by a contrived thrust to maintain the difference, otherwise stale. I don't remember his name, perhaps an Australian Artist, who submitted a realistic self portrait in Water Colour instead of a simple pass port size photograph to the pass port Authorities for issuance of Pass Port. Obviously, the State declined to issue him a pass port since the water colour is not a photograph but an art work. But he made a point. A particular practice turns 'the State' into some sort of colour blindness. i believe so. I believe, European Wars necessitated the need for a photograph to represent an individual, which gave shape to a formal pass port with a regular photograph in it. Yet we know how spies faked them all the time and perforated each others Nation States walls at will. Almost all the parties lost the battle. Now with latest terrorist threats the age old practice of photograph looks primitive. Meanwhile, artists see it a art form, aesthetic forms. Cindy Sherman faked different iconic poses by performing a still in front of Camera, which turned out to be 'original ' and now Artist Pushpamala N successfully does the same with Indian system of iconic imagery it can be endless...and why not... Coming back to Fakes in the hands of non-State Actors we need to have originals. So a simple pass port with visa looks insufficient unless your eyes are not scanned and finger's impressions duly recorded in digital formats. The latest representative of an individual is her/his image of Cornea. So, why not imagine an Identity Card which has the system that instantly reveals an individual's design inside the eye. The state can afford to ignore the huge community of blinds, but that will be the latest technological grand national achievement. But what if the data is hacked, or altered at some level. Do we need to maintain both the systems, and hope to keep the ' faker' at a distance. To avoid a 'fake', do we need to turn a billion of our population into some sort of colour blindness. Similarly, do we need to create a range of systems, as Ashok Vajpayee and his friend Raza would love all of us to do, which can isolate a fake from the original. Is that the end and beginning of Art? Is National identity card similarly the beginning and end of ones identity? If the image of Dodo is hanging like dead Albatross around our necks, then what image is adequate to represent us in our identity cards? Again today's newspaper, " world's highest Pharma levels in Andhra Stream" . Who is responsible? The factories, who supply generics to US and Europe, and the income it generates obviously pushes the National Developmental Graph upwards . That is good for most of privileged us, but what about the people living in tribal belts of Andhara Pradesh, who had no choice but to drink the deadly water. So how to explain the fake v/s original to such an inhabitant living there for millions of years, but now threatened to die as ' unmarked'. Another news: Indian Generic sales might be hit by counterfeit charge. Now it is all about Trade and its bullying tactics of the West. Big Indian Pharma firms don't have patent on particular combination and so can not pass their products through European seas for Latin American demands. Now, see at National Level we have no choice but to oppose this European Rule, but at the grass root level it is already a disaster, as we know. Identity wise, we are caught in a paradox. Let us hope there is no dead end, a frustration. It is after all not a big issue to separate a fake painting from a original one, even when we know the painting changes while its surface is wet, and keeps on changing endlessly after it is dry even, but the change is so slow that we can safely say in a gallery that the painting is a still object. We need not be caught unwittingly by some illusion which stifles our simple expression even. We may notice the difference between a fake Raza and an original Raza. They are indeed two, but to what extent the difference changes my aesthetic reasoning. Am I identifiable more by an original Raza than its forged one ? Is a Pass Port in my hands the last thing which I want to know about my self, identity wise and beyond… The question indeed here is if every other thing in the museums and galleries is faked and put on sale as originals. Yes, the collector should bother, not those who are not interested to collect, particularly if there is a huge price tag attached to it. After all, both fakes and originals will remain on this earth, in this form or that form. Let us see how we can go deeply into the actual function of these art objects which are vulnerable to fakes. Some times the fake is art, and the original can be disaster. Again we have news today: Floating Message. A 16 feet high polar bear sculpture sails down the Thames to raise awareness about melting Ice caps. Imagine, if a real piece of snow with a trapped polar bear floats on the Thames what a sad news it would be. But wait, it has already happened, not on Thames but in a distant sea, and the fake of the real is functioning as vital. It wont be far when we have the sad original floating in London with no means to push the polar bear back to ice caps. Munch's Scream comes to my mind, We hear its scream only when it is stolen from the gallery, but not when it actually wants to be heard. Do we need to do a research whether the painting in the gallery is original or fake? In any case we don't hear the scream. That is 'idiocy' of our times. Love Inder salim On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder Salim > > The TOI and other news reports certainly have raised doubts but none has > declared it as a "fake encounter". > > Dont you think it is irresponsible for any serious commentator to make a > declaration of it being a "fake encounter" on the basis of what you have > described as "the way it was > carried out, it looks fake". > > No I do not expect fake encounter from the State. Nor do I expect or find > acceptable "custodial deaths". That it happens is another thing > altogether which needs to be rectified and stopped (in any country). Your > statement that it is a "part of" the system of governance in India is > ridiculous. The exceptions cannot be stretched into being called the norm. > > In any case, it certainly does does not mean that any such incident is > automatically declared as being a "fake encounter" or a "custodial death" on > the basis of the precedence of some examples and without confirmation from > properly evidenced investigation. > > This particular incident may or may not be a "fake encounter" but > declaring it as being so on the basis of "loopholes" and "suspicions" from > news reports seems to be frivolous at the least and of devious intent at > it's worst. > > As regards "reflecting on other finer points about fake/original", I am not > accomplished enough to participate in such highly intellectual academic > discussions. > > Kshmendra > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/27/09, indersalim wrote: > > From: indersalim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be > forged unless you act illegally? > To: "reader-list" > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 6:50 PM > > dear Kshmendra > thanks > my source of information is Times of India newspaper, the way it was > carried out, it looks fake, > but why dont we expect a fake encounter from the State ? > is not custodial death a well known feature in our system of > governance, and it is almost acceptable in our societal discourse. > > that is that, but i would really love to hear you reflecting on other > finer points about fake/original > > regards and love > is > > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> Dear Inder Salim >> >> You wrote: >> >> """"" Read today's fake encounter which > marked two dead bodies as two >> terrorists.""""" >> >> Would you please clarify which "encounter" have you written > about and on >> what basis you have declared it to be a "fake encounter". >> >> Kshmendra >> >> --- On Tue, 1/27/09, indersalim wrote: >> >> From: indersalim >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be >> forged unless you act illegally? >> To: "reader-list" >> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 1:05 AM >> >> Dear Taha, >> >> Your very interesting response is certainly my essay's second part. I >> will try write its third part. I wish there are many more reflection >> on the subject. The subject ' fake/original' is such that we can >> always safely conclude by saying ' to be concluded…' >> >> Earlier, this little essay-piece was triggered by Raza's serious >> reaction to his own fakes. But obviously I can not simply stop at >> criticizing him for his lack of humour, but we rightly need to march >> ahead and touch the deeper issues of identity etc. Today on 26th of >> Jan. in TOI we have an interview by poet-bureaucrat Ashok Vajpayee who >> also seemed quite bothered by collector's dilemmas, which >> intellectually I again see some sort of short-sightedness. What >> amuses me most in all this that the victim artists themselves fail to >> realize their own understanding of modern art, which is that art >> changes, even after the brush stops, even after the colours dry on the >> surface, even after the same set of eyes see it again, even after the >> same audience likes and then dislikes it… >> >> I believe, a time gap of 60 years is enough to make the artists to >> see her/his own works in a changed form. If not, I only see >> stagnation. We have to move ahead of Dada and Duchamp but I guess it >> is futile to continue with a Picasso etc. What is that which makes >> them dismiss the forgery in the first place: if not the money factor ? >> >> But wait; they are perhaps genuinely worried, because they are still >> on the same old track of creativity, which is creative indeed, but >> something, smog like, has crept into "all the pores" of that >> creativity, explicitly, which we call : conceptual. >> Radical thought is a perpetual flux of expression in material and Life >> directly. >> >> Unlike in the first part, where I took pains and found Jean >> Baudrillard's quotes sufficiently describing the collectors >> limitations, but now, I guess, we ought to intuitively enter the >> word 'conceptualism'. >> >> Meanwhile, can we suggest to represent ourselves with an image of say >> Dodo, or about to go extinct species such as Tiger, tied around our >> necks in our National Identity Cards? Will that be too heavy a weight >> for the Nationhood to bear? Do we need to realize intensely that >> things have shifted radically ? The Nation State needs a lie to >> sustain itself. Even legendry post-Kalinga King Ashoka required some >> violence to sustain his hold on power. It is inevitable. Read today's >> fake encounter which marked two dead bodies as two terrorists. Now >> people know why we need 26th of Jan. and so Identity cards as well. I >> am interested in something which takes a departure from that line of >> identity which is too obvious, predictable. >> >> Perhaps, the notions of identities have shifted for the younger >> generation, and do this younger lot blindly let them impose their ways >> of identity on the rest. Do we need to join their anguish against the >> fakes, even when we don't paint. I do paint, as a true amateur, that >> is entirely different from what Raza and co. are into, but yes, >> 'photography' I believe, was free from this ' faking > fear'. So >> I do, >> photographs, and would be amused if they are duplicated into anything >> else. I have no fears on that account, but I have my own fears. >> >> Yes, there are more bigger traps in the photography, but to grapple >> with those, do we need to get rid of those ghosts who are by now >> exposed? The mystery ghosts of Indian Modern art are on sale, and I >> have not no interest to buy one, even when I had such a huge money to >> invest, but I do look at them comically, which is not ordinary. They >> amuse me, they entertain me, but I don't see they are radical enough >> to unnerve the bigger ghosts of our existing times, which are much >> darker in nature. >> >> If we truly believe "every body is an artist" then we know how >> definitions don't work, and we also need to know why there is some >> sincere desire in people to identify themselves with something where >> money was a minor player, but their inner respective being was ' the >> hero . I am not certainly talking about some 'collective >> consciousness', whatever that means, but something which is >> 'singular' >> in nature. I usually write ' singular-i-tease' whenever we talk > about >> that inner' people's desire', which rips ( Derrida ) anything, > both >> sacred and profane. People do it, in their own beautiful ways. >> >> Please have a look at my second version of INDER SALIM poster, which >> has the very name indersalim ( sound ) written in sausages 'of beef >> and pork'. So, difficult to devour and relish, for those who are hard >> core believers of their respective identities: Hindu and Muslim. >> http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com ( image in the box ) >> >> In practice, I believe, the difference between original and fake is >> just a temporary one. I am talking about how ' our ways of > living' >> are road rolling that earlier difference of identity which we held >> dearly near our hearts. Gizmos and technologies are rendering that >> difference into a mythical one. There is a profound regret, but >> perhaps, we don't have a way to go back to the past, but we have all >> the reason to see faults with modernity. Something else is happening >> right now. I have certainly no big expression to talk about that, but >> see, what a chaos we are in. So what is hidden but there, is perhaps >> vital for our ongoing ways of living. >> >> The style of an artist has indeed collapsed as something lasting. The >> National identity too has a limited function in that sense. The word ' >> conceptual' on the other hand transcends the boarder, and the style at >> the same time. It outwits the market oriented collector, and >> simultaneously questions the corporate cultured monster's hidden >> sprawl under the national tricolour. Unfortunately, the masses are >> helpless, but they deserve better than Nation merely as style, and a >> situation where artists are a rare commodity, like a Mercedes car >> which they only look at from a distance, for some moon like desire in >> their eyes. ( see, how MF Hussain, openly exhibits his hobby of >> collecting expensive cars in Dubai ) >> >> At national level, particularly in North India we have a strong >> difference which is based on 1947, and Partition. Both, the post >> colonial identity and Hindu Muslim difference is working towards the >> formation of National Identity. Here, again ' our ways of living are >> rendering that difference into insignificance. A time will come when >> we don't need fear to from this lack, of not being a Nationalist; >> which does not mean we need to be anti-nationalist for that, but >> something which is liberating, truly for our inner spiritual pursuits >> at the core. >> >> Right now we don't have a duplicate to a Mulla ji or a Brahmin ji who >> performs an original and obviously devastate millions of Indians with >> his fear mechanism. They even sabotage the strong structures of >> Democracy with their deep psychological reaches into the minds of >> people. They themselves carry a ritual flag in the name of God. They >> rob people and give power to God. They are intimately seated next to >> nation state which robs people to enrich itself. They were never >> originals in their original function in our society . But they had a >> style which they sell like our modern masters. This is where 'the >> Nation', if dependant on that style ' of partition and post > colonial >> identity' then it performs as collector which is "impoverished > and >> inhuman ". >> >> About 'idiocy' of our times: that we are drowned by the > photocopies >> of the photocopies of the photocopies of the photocopies. Where is the >> original Monalisa stands today, if we were burn all millions and >> billions of photocopies of Monalisa ? >> >> Is anybody hearing, Raza who is too anguished about fakes of his > originals. >> >> Nation is on the thorn, Some one is hungry at Seven. Artist is worried >> about originals. >> Muse is in her Heaven. All is right with the world >> >> With love and regards >> Inder salims >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Taha Mehmood >> <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Inder, >>> >>> Thank you for posting a wonderful essay. I look forward to the second >> part. >>> >>> I think this essay reflects a lot of issues, questions and dilemmas > that I >> am grappling for last four years regarding the not so clear notion of >> identity. >>> >>> The similarities of debate in the art world, regarding fake and the >> original, seemingly creative solutions like Ela Menon's to deposit > her >> thumbprint on her work, and the anxiety to identify the-one-as-the-one, > are >> not >> that dissimilar, it seems to the current neurosis of many a nation state > to >> introduce national identity cards. >>> >>> It was interesting to note how the writer of this essay choose >> Rosset's words to argue, "The real is not threatened by its > double >> today it is threatened by its very idiocy". I am curious what > Rosset's >> take would be on the crucial issue of national citizenship because >> essentially >> it is about identifying the real from the fake. >>> >>> To issue a national identity card, any state would have to act as a >> collector of personal and financial information. Of collectors he states, >> 'collectors, for the part, invariably have something impoverished and >> inhuman about them'. Will he harbour the same opinoin for a nation > state as >> a collector too? >>> >>> I wonder what prompted him to use such a strong language. As a reader > one >> does not really understand why he articulates the act of collection as >> impoverished and inhuman. >>> >>> If for a moment we leave the sensitive nature of politics around the >> imagination of a nation state and talk purely in terms of politics around >> the >> art world, I would be happy to know your views in so far as the debate >> around >> the fake and original is concerned. >>> >>> As the essay suggests, one of the reasons for the existence of this >> anxiety seems to be money, the other seems to be ownership or maybe >> authorship. >>> >>> As an artist and a practitioner of an art form, to what extent, you > think >> Inder, that one could formulate ideas about fake and original. >>> >>> Warm regards >>> >>> Taha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe >> in >> the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 01:03:06 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:03:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Protest against Mangaloreassault:jointdraft statement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- *From:* sumi_krishna2002 *To:* invites at yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:15 PM *Subject:* [invites] 27jan::TODAY 5.pm:: Protest against Mangalore assault:jointdraft statement Dear friends, Please see and share with others a Draft Statement on the Mangalore assault. If you have any suggestions on the draft or if you would like to add your name to the Statement please let us know by email to by Friday 30th evening, so that we can issue the statement as soon as possible. For those in Bangalore: please meet this evening, by 5 p.m, Tuesday 27th, at the Gandhi statue on MG Road for the protest organised by Vimochana >, who are also sending a separate "open letter" to the Karnataka government. Thanks. Draft Statement on Mangalore Assault We, women and men, condemn the brutal and unprovoked assault by self-appointed moral police on young women having lunch in a pub in the coastal city of Mangalore, Karnataka, during the afternoon of Saturday, 24 January 2009. We are saddened by the inaction of the public who looked on and simply watched the attack unfold. But we appreciate the attitude and actions of the staff of the pub who tried to intervene and the few young men who stood up to the attackers. We are shocked by the tardy action of the State administration, police, and political leadership, some of whom have dismissed this is as a 'minor incident'. We do not believe that violent threats to the democratic freedoms and human rights of all citizens, including women, can be treated as minor. We are deeply disturbed by the sharply escalating trend of political and social violence against women in public and private spaces as means to enforce a particularly regressive interpretation of culture in the name of 'religion and country' that has been taking place in several parts of India. We condemn all such forms of gender-based violence against women and also children (girls and boys) and the attitudes that make such violence acceptable, whether in the family, social or public spheres. We believe this was not an isolated assault by a bunch of hooligans but part of the profoundly contested political struggle over what constitutes Indian traditions, religions and cultures. It is evident that in this instance the attackers were emboldened to carry out the unprovoked assault in a political environment that supports a particularly narrow and fanatical view of Indian culture as also a repressive attitude to women. We recognise the role of the media in bringing this to public notice and the media's unrelenting efforts to get the State to act against those immediately responsible for the assault. However, we are troubled by the ethical question of why those members of the media who had prior knowledge of this did not inform the police, which was their duty as citizens. Sumi Krishna, Bangalore Ammu Joseph, Bangalore Soma K.P., New Delhi U. Vindhya, Hyderabad Joy Ranadive, Ahmedabad Mary E. John, New Delhi Gopa Samanta, Burdwan (West Bengal) Anuradha Prasad, Bangalore Sharad Lele, Bangalore Prajval Shastri, Bangalore Ajit Menon, Chennai Cynthia Stephen, Bangalore From sammillerdelhi at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 09:41:28 2009 From: sammillerdelhi at hotmail.com (sam miller) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:41:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity and Sarai Message-ID: Dear Friends - I know it's not quite done to post publicity material to a reader-list. But my excuse is that my first book, 'Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity',.which has just been published in India does have a brief sections about Sarai. This is how it begins: "Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it also orbits in cyber-space. According to its own publicity literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in Delhi’. " More about 'Delhi:Adventures in a Megacity' on the website www.penguinbooksindia.com/delhi with lots of competitions and games related to the book. There’s the Delhi Treasure Hunt – with a prize of Rs 5000 worth of books – and for which a new clue will be revealed each week. The first clue is on the site now. There’s also the Delhi Challenge – for the first challenge we’re asking visitors to the website to write a 200-word description of their favourite Delhi building. There’s also a Facebook site http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1854238&id=506766813#/group.php?gid=45927894283 And if you’re not in the subcontinent, the book will be published by Jonathan Cape in the UK in June – and you can even pre-order it at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delhi-Sam-Miller/dp/0224086103 Please do give me feedback, and please, please point out any errors. The Sarai reader list, despite a few flame wars, has been a great source of information and inspiration for me in writing this book. Best wishes Sam _________________________________________________________________ Wish to Marry Now? Join MSN Matrimony FREE! http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 10:32:55 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:02:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] What Pakhtuns think Message-ID: <136619.71755.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This should be essential reading for the root cause researchers like Milliband etc.The more one reads the news and op-eds coming out of the country,the more one realizes that the root cause of the propagation of terrorism is nothing else but the nature of the Pakistani state,its elite. http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=159413 What Pakhtuns think Wednesday, January 28, 2009 Farhat Taj There are many Pakhtun who argue that some elite state intelligence agencies and the Taliban, as of Swat for example, are 'natural allies' and feed on each other. The Taliban want a besieged and helpless population whom they can rule with impunity. The ISI, they claim, is facilitating this rule and in return the Taliban create chaos and violence. Some may ask the obvious question: why would any one want chaos and violence in the area? Two arguments are put forward by many Pakhtuns in this regard. Some refer to the well-known but often-discredited theory of strategic depth, which envisions that Afghanistan will become the fifth province of Pakistan and that the central Asian Islamic states will become its client states. Thus Pakistan will become a robust regional power vis-a-vis India in South Asia and acquire a leadership role in the Muslim world. Therefore, by having a region close to Afghanistan which is full of violence and chaos is a way of preventing the US, India and Iran from establishing a firm foothold in the area. Also, US and NATO forces are in Afghanistan, which means that it is important to have a kind of a buffer between Afghanistan and the rest of Pakistan. Furthermore, many American think-tanks are of the view that a chaotic FATA is bad for both US and NATO forces because it allows the militants a haven to launch attacks inside Afghanistan, and then retreat back to Pakistan. There are of course many other Pakhtuns who do not give credence to the theory of strategic depth. Their view is that if the conflict in FATA were to end and the region became peaceful, the flow of dollars from America would stop. There are also Pakhtuns who believe that foreign intelligence agencies such as RAW, Mossad or the CIA are involved in the violence. But they too primarily blame local state actors and their pursuit of the doctrine of strategic depth or of an unhindered flow of aid money from America as primary motives for what is happening in the area. They are just not ready to accept that the Taliban can and are able to occupy large parts of Pakistan without the tacit consent or support of these state actors. Of course, one has to only look at the past and see that it is a part of the public record that people like Nek Mohammad were welcomed with open arms by the then Peshawar corps commander or that some Taliban leaders were given funds in exchange for changing their ways – and which they did not! One man said: "Look at the ease with which the Taliban have been occupying Waziristan for years and now Swat. How is that possible given that we have one of the largest and well-trained armies in the world?" What I have written in the two parts of my article are views gained from travelling very recently across NWFP and parts of FATA. I spoke to internally displaced people of FATA in NWFP, daily wage-earners, public transport drivers, shop-keepers, low-ranking government employees, journalists, lawyers, students, teachers and housewives. Almost everywhere people were resentful of the military leadership and the ISI and held them responsible for the brutal excesses of the Taliban. They were not even willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the ISI. Many people said that if the ISI was sincere with the Pakhtuns it must target-kill the entire Taliban leadership just like the Taliban have done in the case of over 200 tribal leaders and must restore the writ of the government in the Taliban-occupied areas. People are especially angry over the presence of so many foreign Taliban militants and refer to them as no better than 'mad dogs'. I would humbly request the army chief and the ISI director-general to pay heed to what the people of NWFP and FATA are saying and to act to remove their grievances. This is crucial both for both Pakhtun society as well as for the survival of the state. It should be remembered that although an ethnic minority, the Pakhtuns are better integrated in the state structure than other minorities such as the Baloch or Sindhis. They have served the nation with their blood in times of war and also in other state-related duties. If the current violence is left unchecked, and given the perception – right or wrong – among many Pakhtun that certain state institutions are behind it or are acquiescing in it, the further integration of the community with the rest of the country will be put at risk. Last, but by no means least, I would also request fellow citizens to build up pressure on the government and the military to decisively deal with the Taliban and restore the government's writ in FATA and NWFP. The armed forces are financed by taxpayers hard-earned money and we all have a right to demand that the army provide us security and protect us from extremists who want to butcher us and destroy are way of life. The writer is a research fellow at the Centre for Interdisciplinary Gender Research, University of Oslo and a member of Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy. Email: bergen34 at yahoo.com From subuhimjiwani at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 11:59:39 2009 From: subuhimjiwani at yahoo.com (Subuhi Jiwani) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:29:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Contesting Media Realities: Unpacking the Real, TISS, Jan 29-30, 2009 References: <136619.71755.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <279004.3867.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FRAMES OF REFERENCE Contesting Media Realities: Unpacking the Real National Seminar January 29 – 30, 2009 Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai Distinctions between the real and the imagined are often understood in black and white. This seminar seeks to unsettle such simplistic binaries. It will critically examine the media’s representations of ‘reality’ and raise questions about its frames of reference. Does the media, fictional or non-fictional, propagate certain ideas about truth, the real and the world? The seminar will unpack representations of reality in news, documentary and fiction films. 29th January, 2009 10:00 A.M. - Inaugural Address by Ms. Sushma Singh, Secretary Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, Government of India 10:15 A.M. - Prof. S. Parasuraman, Director, TISS 10:30 A.M. - Keynote Address by Prof. Aijaz Ahmed 11:30 A.M. - Tea Break 11:45 A.M. - Panel Discussion on “Contested Media Realities : Unpacking the Real” – The mediated news. Panelists : Padmashree Sucheta Dalal, Dr. Prof. B. P. Sanjay, Mr. Sashi Kumar, Ms. Meena Menon, Ms. Jyoti Puniani, Ms. Pratima Joshi, Ms. Radhika Bordia 01:15 P.M. - Lunch 02:15 P.M. - Screening of Documentary of XXWhy, directed by B. Manjula Discussants : Mr. Sree Nandu, Ms. Kalki and Dr. Shoba Ghosh 04:00 P.M. - Tea Break 04:15 P.M. - CMCS Students’ Presentation 06:30 P.M. onwards - Hindi Play “Girija Ke Sapne” directed by Mr. M. S. Satyu, produced by Indian People’s Theatre Association (IPTA) 10:00 A.M. - Panel Discussion on “Contested Media Realities: Unpacking the Real” – The mediated cinema. Panelists : Prof. Moinak Biswas, Mr. Om Puri, Ms. Revathy, Mr. Anurag Kashyap, Mr. Sriram Raghavan 11:30 A.M. - Tea Break 11:45 A.M. - Panel Discussion on “Contested Media Realities: Unpacking the Real” - The mediated documentary. Panelists : Prof. Shiv Vishwanath, Mr. Amar Kanwar, Mr. Stalin K. and Mr. Ajay T.G. 1:15 P.M. - Lunch Break 2:15 P.M. - Paper Presentation by Students 4:00 P.M. - Vote of Thanks Photo Exhibition by the Thane Press Club on 26/11 From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 12:21:50 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Contesting Media Realities - CMCS - TISS Message-ID: <851430.74989.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> FRAMES OF REFERENCE Contesting Media Realities: Unpacking the Real National Seminar January 29 – 30, 2009 Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai Distinctions between the real and the imagined are often understood in black and white. This seminar seeks to unsettle such simplistic binaries. It will critically examine the media's representations of 'reality' and raise questions about its frames of reference. Does the media, fictional or non-fictional, propagate certain ideas about truth, the real and the world? The seminar will unpack representations of reality in news, documentary and fiction films. 29th January, 2009 10:00 A.M. - Inaugural Address by Ms. Sushma Singh, Secretary Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, Government of India 10:15 A.M. - Prof. S. Parasuraman, Director, TISS 10:30 A.M. - Keynote Address by Prof. Aijaz Ahmed 11:30 A.M. - Tea Break 11:45 A.M. - Panel Discussion on "Contested Media Realities : Unpacking the Real" – The mediated news. Panelists : Padmashree Sucheta Dalal, Dr. Prof. B. P. Sanjay, Mr. Sashi Kumar, Ms. Meena Menon, Ms. Jyoti Puniani, Ms. Pratima Joshi, Ms. Radhika Bordia 01:15 P.M. - Lunch 02:15 P.M. - Screening of Documentary of XXWhy, directed by B. Manjula Discussants : Mr. Sree Nandu, Ms. Kalki and Dr. Shoba Ghosh 04:00 P.M. - Tea Break 04:15 P.M. - CMCS Students' Presentation 06:30 P.M. onwards - Hindi Play "Girija Ke Sapne" directed by Mr. M. S. Satyu, produced by Indian People's Theatre Association (IPTA) 10:00 A.M. - Panel Discussion on "Contested Media Realities: Unpacking the Real" – The mediated cinema. Panelists : Prof. Moinak Biswas, Mr. Om Puri, Ms. Revathy, Mr. Anurag Kashyap, Mr. Sriram Raghavan 11:30 A.M. - Tea Break 11:45 A.M. - Panel Discussion on "Contested Media Realities: Unpacking the Real" - The mediated documentary. Panelists : Prof. Shiv Vishwanath, Mr. Amar Kanwar, Mr. Stalin K. and Mr. Ajay T.G. 1:15 P.M. - Lunch Break 2:15 P.M. - Paper Presentation by Students 4:00 P..M. - Vote of Thanks Photo Exhibition by the Thane Press Club on 26/11 Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From rana at ranadasgupta.com Wed Jan 28 14:30:08 2009 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:30:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Online: the complete Cambridge History of English and American Literature (18 volumes) Message-ID: <49801E98.9060709@ranadasgupta.com> http://www.bartleby.com/cambridge/ enjoy! R -- The phonograph record has served as the blues musician's equivalent to the concert hall almost from the outset. It has been in effect his concert hall without walls, his musée imaginaire. Rana Dasgupta www.ranadasgupta.com From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 21:11:14 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:41:14 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009:... selective reaction..???... In-Reply-To: <311160.72747.qm@web94715.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <311160.72747.qm@web94715.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From: lalitambardar at hotmail.comTo: cubbykabi at yahoo.com; faowindia at yahoogroups.com; reader-list at sarai.net; mauraf at stanford.edu; subuhi.jiwani at gmail.comCC: sukla.sen at gmail.com; mediainitiative at yahoogroups.co.in; indiathinkersnet at yahoogroups.com; mahajanapada at yahoogroups.com; bahujan at yahoogroups.com; ihro at yahoogroups.com; issuesonline_worldwide at yahoogroups.com; arkitectindia at yahoogroups.com; india-unity at yahoogroups.com; invitesplus at yahoogroups.com; peace-mumbai at googlegroups.com; citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com; international-peace-festival at googlegroups.com; samuhik-khoj at yahoogroups.com; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net; ranjan.kamath at gmail.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009:... selective reaction..???...Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:29:35 +0000 Please click on the following link to see how a known Kashmiri pan Islamist terror commander is being euologised in the leading ‘media house' organised 'conclave' on March 15, 08. The founder of 'gun' culture in the valley, self admittedly ferried weapons from Pakistan to indulge in mayhem in Kashmir that lead to the ethnic cleansing of the minority Kashmiri Hindu Pandits there (...just for information--Kashmiri Hindu Pandits continue to live as refugees in their own country for the past two decades now…. & the civil society is conspicuously silent about it …….). In the turmoil, hundreds of Muslim mothers, widows & orphans have lost their loved ones who fell prey to the propaganda & religion based indoctrination. http://conclave.digitaltoday.in/conclave2008/index.php?option=com_magazine&opt=section§ionid=9&secid=6&issueid=32&assid=2502&Itemid=1&click=1 Do not miss the obnoxious sarcasm of the moderator that evokes equally cheap laughter from the august elite present when someone in the audience protested against the presence of a known terrorist in the panel. Regards all LA PS: i) This is not to belittle the ‘Godhra’ & ‘the post Godhra riots’-the tragedy of Gujarat. ii) What about the justice to the victims of ‘84anti Sikh riots? iii) What about the victims of previous riots- after all we have a history..? iii) Menace of communalism can not be eradicated through selective approach. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:03:29 +0530> From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com> To: faowindia at yahoogroups.com; reader-list at sarai.net; mauraf at stanford.edu; subuhi.jiwani at gmail.com> Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009: News Update> > kabi> > > Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी> blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com> podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown> > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> From: sukla.sen > To: mediainitiative ; INDIATHINKERS ; mahajanapada ; bahujan ; IHRO ; issueonline ; Wake up India ; "india-unity at yahoogroups.com" ; "invitesplus at yahoogroups.com" ; Peace Mumbai ; citizen-mumbai ; international-peace-festival ; Samuhik Khoj ; ecological-democracy > Sent: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 12:55:15 PM> Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009: News Update> > [Please visit and sign, if not already done.> > Sukla]> > From: Ranjan Kamath > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:15 AM> Subject: Cellular Silence Day _ 30th January 2009_ News Update> > Dear Friends> > Thank you for spreading the message about Cellular Silence Day 30thJanuary 2009. > > As I write to you the number of signatures approaches 2500 from small beginnings on the 15th January. Today, it in the top ten of the Most Active campaigns on Petition Online.> > In the last 24 hours, TATA Sons have issued a legal notice to me, demanding that I remove all reference to Ratan Tata and instructing me to tender an unconditional apology allegedly defamation.> > While I have sought legal advice, I shall urge Mr Tata to engage in a dialogue wth a fellow citizen about the issue rather than attempt to legally intimidate me with the power and might of TATA Sons.> > That TATA Sons responded with a legal notice is sufficient proof that even a few thousand committed citizens can send tremors through the portals of India Inc.> > This is certainly not the last legal missive I shall be receiving before January 30th. Also, no effort is being spared to compromise this petition through fraudulent signatures, impersonations etc.> > If you do not wish to be updated about the campaign please let me know and I shall exclude you from further updates.> > thanking you> > sincerely> > Ranjan Kamath> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Citizen-Mumbai" group. > To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---> > > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume.. Grab now http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Get a view of the world through MSN Video. Some things just cannot be left unseen. Try it! _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner! Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Jan 28 22:06:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:36:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <47e122a70901271039m59dec902kd58b480568db526e@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70901271039m59dec902kd58b480568db526e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901280836y16544df0y8d329880ac971b2a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Inder, Thank you for your response. Let me quote you first and carry on from there... > See, it is only now that we see it like that, because the complexities of times were not as heavy on their heads as they are now. To a large extent I agree with this position but at the same time I also feel that for every age this position must have been true. For instance, I would like to believe that in Aristotle's time his thought or general discussions around the nature of knowledge, aesthetics, rhetoric, governance etc would have been most advanced form of thinking precisely because no other arguments were present which could have counter argued, or build upon Aristotle's thought or that of his peers with as much of poignancy as perhaps people from other ages were able to do. Having said that, I also believe that coupling of time under a generic category of 'age' is not precise, it is always negotiated. One can never say it with precision that at such and such date Renaissance ends or Enlightenment begins. > I believe, European Wars necessitated the need for a photograph to > represent an individual, which gave shape to a formal pass port with a > regular photograph in it. On the contrary, it seems European Wars were an opportunity for the nation states to condense the debate around passports. Hence, crystallization of the notion of passport could be seen as an attempt to make the idea of a nation state more unarguable. Passports have a longer history, from whatever little I know, passports were called, 'Safe conducts' till 15th Century in England. 'Safe conduct' was basically a note, signed by the King or Queen requesting authorities of other lands to not to harm the person of the carrier of the note. What was interesting in this practice was, the King or the Queen could issue this note to anyone. There was no distinction or discrimination on the basis of nationality, so a fake citizen or an original alien could apply for and get a passport. Hence there has been quite a change, in the last say, six hundred years; as, now passports have become a virtual marker of one's nationality. And normatively speaking today, it seems, only an original citizen but no fake alien or no fake citizen and no original alien would get a passport. (You may follow this url for a detailed time line on the evolution of passports in England, if you're interested- http://www.ips.gov.uk/passport/about-history-overview.asp) The anecdote about Australian artist is excellent, because it, in a sense, questions a State's position about how are we to appear as our 'formal selves'. I think we need to probe further into the 'history-of-pose' to arrive at preliminary answers as to how and why are we asked to pose in a particular manner. Who are these people and what is their intellectual lineage which guides them to make us pose in a particular manner. This has also got to do with the idea that how 'official'/'formal' narratives of poses are constructed and manufactured. At times one wonders who needs who more, for in a way, the originals need fakes to be distinguished as originals and the other way round too. I think as a thought experiment it would be an adventure to think of a world where the imagination of fake does not exist. I think you were not entirely wrong to suggest in an earlier mail in this thread, that, 'the difference between original and fake is just a temporary one.' Historically too, we find narratives of fake and original being negotiated again and again. There is a non-permanence regarding original/fake in history too as you imply. Take the history of modern Indian policing for instance. Here too one finds ample evidence of a nervous and neurotic state power first appearing as 'illegitimate' then after a passage of time as 'legitimate' trying desperately to fracture in practices which we now see in the form of 'brands', of 'identification drives', of this market induced enthusiasm which might also be read as -frenzy- to inhumanly assign numbers to people, to regularize, to legitimize, to record, to verify and to classify. I referred the exercise to assign numbers to human beings as inhuman because we are still, in many ways are emerging from the un-sayable violence which practices introduced by Hitler, for instance wrought by marking Jews with numbers in concentration camps. If we ask any Jew who had been to Auschwitz, whether she liked that beautiful number on her forearm, I think, in her reply, we can perhaps know a lot more about this much valued relationship between a number and a human being. I wonder what is the moral argument for the Government of India to assign numbers to every Indian. Anyways, let us for a moment look at an instance in the history of modern Indian Policing with respect to this debate around original/fake or copy/original. One of the first move to systematize police procedures in India, was initiated by William Henry Sleeman later Sir Sleeman, during his campaign to eradicate, 'thugs' of India between 1829 and 1847. In 1947-a hundred years later, as we all know, India became a post colonial state. But Sleeman, as not many of us know, was born in 1788 in a little known Cornish village, his father Phillip was a supervisor of Excise who was given the responsibility of catching Smugglers/pirates. Sleeman's first home was Stratton which was a smuggling country and by many accounts, Sleeman's ancestors were involved this trade. Sleeman's bête noire was Feringeea who was born in 1800, he was a Brahmin, a twice born Brahmin at that. A Dvija. Feringea's father Purusram was considered as a great thug leader of Chambal valley. Before Sleeman, it seems there were no systematic police archives which contained any personal information on 'thugs', like before MNIC there does not exist any systematic archives which contain personal information on citizens of India. Sleeman assigned an officer on every case and all the raw data was entered into a register which contained the names of every 'Thug' who was identified, just as the government of India has kindly proposed to make a National Register of Citizenship and a National Register of population which will contain the name and other information classified in sixteen different categories to be contained in these registers. Every 'Thug' was assigned a unique number, just as, all of us are soon going have our own National Identity Numbers. Against this number, Sleeman recorded information pertaining to his name, his location, details of his associates and the crimes for which his was accused,like, for all of us in India, we will soon have an interlinked database, wherein any official having our NIN number can have access to sensitive personal and financial information, of course for official purposes only. And I would argue that after having entrusted our information to the Indian Government, we must not offer 'surprise' as a reaction, in case this database containing our information find its way to a thrift shop on MP3, like it did, in case of data belonging to US army personnel recently. Because may be this is how things are meant to be. (Man 'finds US troop data' on MP3 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7853213.stm) While things were not meant to be in Sleeman's case, because there was no precedent, to begin with. He had to use his own intelligence to separate wheat from chaff, identify the original from the fake or its copy. He had all the legitimizing arguments working for him because he was dealing with criminals and murderers, like Hitler had all the legitimizing arguments working for him because he was dealing with 'Jews'. I wonder what is the ethical basis for the Government of India to argue that assigning numbers to every Indian is in the good of the nation. Sleeman's department after his campaign evolved into an all India police force, who were given the responsibility to gather information on Indian Nationalist groups and other potential 'rebel' leaders, but of course the department was officially called the Central Intelligence Office, its popular name was, however, the 'Thugi Dufter'. Thugs caught by Sleeman's gang were branded on the forehead or on the back with word 'Thug' marked by the process of Godna which is essentially tattooing through a needle in Hindi or in Persian characters. I think what we are witnessing in the process of MNIC is perhaps an act of 'closing-in' by a state of an experiment which was started by Sleeman to first garner information on a fringe population of criminals. Later this fringe population included nationalist leaders and 'rebels' and now it seems it is everyone. There is one more strand of thought, which emerges from this narrative which of course, pertains to the idea of Fake and Original OR Copy and Original. Sleeman's forefathers were Pirates i.e. they did not pay tax to the state while transacting goods. Sleeman,on the other hand, started his career as an enforcer of State's diktat, so one could argue that while his forefathers were engaged in illegitimate read 'fake' practices, he was in a legitiamate read 'original' practice. Sleeman found his greatest calling as a ruthless administrator while in pursuit of a man,who was an Indian but called himself Feringeea (meaning alien, or a Gora, a White, a non-native) and who was a Dvija or a twice born (so we can always debate, which birth of his was original and which fake). Sleeman was able to put a full stop to this debate by inserting a number which identified Feringeea as Feringeea forever or maybe not, for like Munch's Scream, as you point out, we do not know which one is the one or whether the one is really the one because, we are organic and we change slowly and subtly and consistently over time. I think, your examples from the pharmaceutical industry, from the art world, and from history point to a hesitation, a lack of belief or a conviction with which the larger social world around us views identity. I wonder what gives the Government of India so much confidence in the magic of a number, perfected by toils of colonial enforcers like Sleeman and by people like Hitler, which will help crystallize identity of us Indians as Indians. Warm regards Taha From parthaekka at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 22:45:44 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:45:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901280836y16544df0y8d329880ac971b2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70901271039m59dec902kd58b480568db526e@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901280836y16544df0y8d329880ac971b2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990901280915r1a6d1f25q77a308af996fd219@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, Firstly, would like to clear out some misconceptions you have, before moving on to other areas. a) As an IT professional who has worked with both governmental as well as NGO's. would like to clarify some basic concepts. 1. There is no 'magic' in IT - or for that matter finger print or smart card or other latest technologies. Unless people follow the 'rules' the high tech is as valuable as a pan stained spit. 2. I have friends in the US with 2 licenses and 3 GC who move violations on requisite documents so that no one identity is compromised. 3. Computers are STUPID. They will only say / do what we define, and our 'Chalta hai" attitude ensures everyting is OK. b) India and Pakistan Used to think India was baaaa...ad, till I saw Pakistan. There is no act... only jokers miming c) Passports are viable when boundaries hold a meaning - or a state / nation has a value, an EQ Where is that now? On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Thank you for your response. > > Let me quote you first and carry on from there... > > > See, it is only now that we see it like that, because the complexities > of > times were not as heavy on their heads as they are now. > > To a large extent I agree with this position but at the same time I also > feel that for every age this position must have been true. For instance, I > would like to believe that in Aristotle's time his thought or general > discussions around the nature of knowledge, aesthetics, rhetoric, > governance > etc would have been most advanced form of thinking precisely because no > other arguments were present which could have counter argued, or build upon > Aristotle's thought or that of his peers with as much of poignancy as > perhaps people from other ages were able to do. Having said that, I also > believe that coupling of time under a generic category of 'age' is not > precise, it is always negotiated. One can never say it with precision that > at such and such date Renaissance ends or Enlightenment begins. > > > I believe, European Wars necessitated the need for a photograph to > > represent an individual, which gave shape to a formal pass port with a > > regular photograph in it. > > On the contrary, it seems European Wars were an opportunity for the nation > states to condense the debate around passports. Hence, crystallization of > the notion of passport could be seen as an attempt to make the idea of a > nation state more unarguable. > > Passports have a longer history, from whatever little I know, passports > were > called, 'Safe conducts' till 15th Century in England. 'Safe conduct' was > basically a note, signed by the King or Queen requesting authorities of > other lands to not to harm the person of the carrier of the note. What was > interesting in this practice was, the King or the Queen could issue this > note to anyone. There was no distinction or discrimination on the basis of > nationality, so a fake citizen or an original alien could apply for and get > a passport. Hence there has been quite a change, in the last say, six > hundred years; as, now passports have become a virtual marker of one's > nationality. And normatively speaking today, it seems, only an original > citizen but no fake alien or no fake citizen and no original alien would > get > a passport. > > (You may follow this url for a detailed time line on the evolution of > passports in England, if you're interested- > http://www.ips.gov.uk/passport/about-history-overview.asp) > > The anecdote about Australian artist is excellent, because it, in a sense, > questions a State's position about how are we to appear as our 'formal > selves'. I think we need to probe further into the 'history-of-pose' to > arrive at preliminary answers as to how and why are we asked to pose in a > particular manner. Who are these people and what is their intellectual > lineage which guides them to make us pose in a particular manner. This has > also got to do with the idea that how 'official'/'formal' narratives of > poses are constructed and manufactured. > > At times one wonders who needs who more, for in a way, the originals need > fakes to be distinguished as originals and the other way round too. I think > as a thought experiment it would be an adventure to think of a world where > the imagination of fake does not exist. I think you were not entirely wrong > to suggest in an earlier mail in this thread, that, 'the difference between > original and fake is just a temporary one.' > > Historically too, we find narratives of fake and original being negotiated > again and again. There is a non-permanence regarding original/fake in > history too as you imply. Take the history of modern Indian policing for > instance. Here too one finds ample evidence of a nervous and neurotic state > power first appearing as 'illegitimate' then after a passage of time as > 'legitimate' trying desperately to fracture in practices which we now see > in > the form of 'brands', of 'identification drives', of this market induced > enthusiasm which might also be read as -frenzy- to inhumanly assign numbers > to people, to regularize, to legitimize, to record, to verify and to > classify. I referred the exercise to assign numbers to human beings as > inhuman because we are still, in many ways are emerging from the un-sayable > violence which practices introduced by Hitler, for instance wrought by > marking Jews with numbers in concentration camps. If we ask any Jew who had > been to Auschwitz, whether she liked that beautiful number on her forearm, > I > think, in her reply, we can perhaps know a lot more about this much valued > relationship between a number and a human being. I wonder what is the moral > argument for the Government of India to assign numbers to every Indian. > > Anyways, let us for a moment look at an instance in the history of modern > Indian Policing with respect to this debate around original/fake or > copy/original. > > One of the first move to systematize police procedures in India, was > initiated by William Henry Sleeman later Sir Sleeman, during his campaign > to > eradicate, 'thugs' of India between 1829 and 1847. In 1947-a hundred years > later, as we all know, India became a post colonial state. > > But Sleeman, as not many of us know, was born in 1788 in a little known > Cornish village, his father Phillip was a supervisor of Excise who was > given > the responsibility of catching Smugglers/pirates. Sleeman's first home was > Stratton which was a smuggling country and by many accounts, Sleeman's > ancestors were involved this trade. > > Sleeman's bête noire was Feringeea who was born in 1800, he was a Brahmin, > a > twice born Brahmin at that. A Dvija. Feringea's father Purusram was > considered as a great thug leader of Chambal valley. > > Before Sleeman, it seems there were no systematic police archives which > contained any personal information on 'thugs', like before MNIC there does > not exist any systematic archives which contain personal information on > citizens of India. > > Sleeman assigned an officer on every case and all the raw data was entered > into a register which contained the names of every 'Thug' who was > identified, just as the government of India has kindly proposed to make a > National Register of Citizenship and a National Register of population > which > will contain the name and other information classified in sixteen different > categories to be contained in these registers. > > Every 'Thug' was assigned a unique number, just as, all of us are soon > going > have our own National Identity Numbers. Against this number, Sleeman > recorded information pertaining to his name, his location, details of his > associates and the crimes for which his was accused,like, for all of us in > India, we will soon have an interlinked database, wherein any official > having our NIN number can have access to sensitive personal and financial > information, of course for official purposes only. And I would argue that > after having entrusted our information to the Indian Government, we must > not > offer 'surprise' as a reaction, in case this database containing our > information find its way to a thrift shop on MP3, like it did, in case of > data belonging to US army personnel recently. Because may be this is how > things are meant to be. > > (Man 'finds US troop data' on MP3 > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7853213.stm) > > While things were not meant to be in Sleeman's case, because there was no > precedent, to begin with. He had to use his own intelligence to separate > wheat from chaff, identify the original from the fake or its copy. He had > all the legitimizing arguments working for him because he was dealing with > criminals and murderers, like Hitler had all the legitimizing arguments > working for him because he was dealing with 'Jews'. I wonder what is the > ethical basis for the Government of India to argue that assigning numbers > to > every Indian is in the good of the nation. Sleeman's department after his > campaign evolved into an all India police force, who were given the > responsibility to gather information on Indian Nationalist groups and other > potential 'rebel' leaders, but of course the department was officially > called the Central Intelligence Office, its popular name was, however, the > 'Thugi Dufter'. > > Thugs caught by Sleeman's gang were branded on the forehead or on the back > with word 'Thug' marked by the process of Godna which is essentially > tattooing through a needle in Hindi or in Persian characters. > > I think what we are witnessing in the process of MNIC is perhaps an act of > 'closing-in' by a state of an experiment which was started by Sleeman to > first garner information on a fringe population of criminals. Later this > fringe population included nationalist leaders and 'rebels' and now it > seems > it is everyone. > > There is one more strand of thought, which emerges from this narrative > which > of course, pertains to the idea of Fake and Original OR Copy and Original. > Sleeman's forefathers were Pirates i.e. they did not pay tax to the state > while transacting goods. Sleeman,on the other hand, started his career as > an > enforcer of State's diktat, so one could argue that while his forefathers > were engaged in illegitimate read 'fake' practices, he was in a legitiamate > read 'original' practice. Sleeman found his greatest calling as a ruthless > administrator while in pursuit of a man,who was an Indian but called > himself > Feringeea (meaning alien, or a Gora, a White, a non-native) and who was a > Dvija or a twice born (so we can always debate, which birth of his was > original and which fake). Sleeman was able to put a full stop to this > debate > by inserting a number which identified Feringeea as Feringeea forever or > maybe not, for like Munch's Scream, as you point out, we do not know which > one is the one or whether the one is really the one because, we are organic > and we change slowly and subtly and consistently over time. > > I think, your examples from the pharmaceutical industry, from the art > world, > and from history point to a hesitation, a lack of belief or a conviction > with which the larger social world around us views identity. I wonder what > gives the Government of India so much confidence in the magic of a number, > perfected by toils of colonial enforcers like Sleeman and by people like > Hitler, which will help crystallize identity of us Indians as Indians. > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 23:09:01 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:09:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Che: The Ronald McDonald of Revolution Message-ID: http://www.worldhum.com/print/item/features/che-the-ronald-mcdonald-of-revolution-20090126/ Che: The Ronald McDonald of Revolution Speaker's Corner: As a new Che biopic hits theaters, Rolf Potts examines the clichés of the revolutionary's admirers and detractors Visit the Museo de la Revolución in central Havana, and two things about the museum's photo displays will immediately capture your attention. First, it's clear that the battle to control Cuba in the late 1950s was ultimately won by the cool guys. Young, bearded and ruggedly handsome, the rebel warriors of Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement look like Beat hipsters and rock stars—Fidel tall and imposing in his fatigues; Camillo Cienfuegos grinning under his broad- brimmed cowboy hat; Ernesto "Che" Guevara looking smolderingly photogenic in his black beret. By contrast, the U.S.-backed dictator Fulgencio Batista and his cronies look bloated, balding and unquestionably corrupt in their stubby neckties and damp armpits and oversized paunches. Even without reading the captions, it's easy to discern the heroes from the villains. Look closer, however, and you'll notice that the triumphant photos of Fidel and Che are faded and mildewed, their corners curled by age and humidity. The photo captions are spelled out in a clunky die-cast typeset that hasn't been used in a generation, and contain glowing present-tense references to the magnanimity of the Soviet Union—a country that hasn't existed since 1991. Despite the grungy glamour of the young men who toppled a tyrant all those years ago, the anachronism and decay of the museum's exhibits reveal just how tired and toothless Cuba's revolutionary myths have become in Havana. In many ways, the building is a museum of a museum—a yellowing relic of how the communist regime chose to portray itself in the 1970s. Step outside the Museo de la Revolución into the humid Havana air, and the glamorous sheen of the bygone Cuban revolution seems to have been distilled into a single image—Alberto Korda's famous 1960 photo of a bearded Che Guevara looking steely and determined in his beret. In a city where few buildings outside the restored Habana Vieja district have seen a new coat of paint in half a century, freshly retouched renderings of Che's mug adorn countless walls and billboards. Moreover, in a country largely devoid of public advertising and religious iconography, Guevara's ubiquitous image appears to fill the role of both Jesus Christ and Ronald McDonald—a sainted martyr of unwavering purity who also happens to promote a meticulously standardized (if not particularly nutritious) political menu. Study the life of Che Guevara and a complicated portrait emerges. Raised by old-money bohemian parents in Argentina, young Ernesto struggled with asthma, read voraciously, studied medicine and became inspired to help the world's poor after vagabonding through the Americas in his early 20s. Falling in with Fidel and Raul Castro in Mexico, he played a heroic role in the Cuban insurgency that eventually brought down one of the most spectacularly corrupt regimes in the history of Latin America. As he worked with Fidel to consolidate the revolution, Che displayed incredible physical and intellectual energy, an unyielding (if rather creepy and totalitarian) idealism and a consistent inability to see any project through to a successful completion. Guevara's stint as minister of industry and president of the national bank crippled the Cuban economy and resulted in food rationing; his rigid Marxist-Leninist fantasies helped derail the revolution's original democratic-socialist inclinations and led to Cuba's dependence on the Soviet Union; his inability to recruit and organize the very peasants he meant to liberate led to a series of disastrous guerrilla adventures in Africa and Latin America, ultimately resulting in his capture and execution in Bolivia. Fortunately for his legacy, he left a beautiful corpse (quite literally, as photographed by his killers), and he's been an icon of revolutionary romanticism ever since. Interestingly, Che's legacy inspires some of the least street-level romanticism within the country he influenced the most. I recently spent a month in Cuba, and—despite the surplus of government-issued Che images along the avenues of Havana—I rarely met Cubans under the age of 40 who regarded Guevara with anything other than ambivalence. Whereas outsiders see Guevara as a symbol of rebellion, two generations of Cuban children have been required to bleat "Seremos como el Che!" ("We will be like Che!") at the outset of each school day. Most people I spoke with were proud to be Cuban and could intellectualize the historical merits of the revolution (and Guevara's role in it), but they were less concerned with emulating Che than navigating the absurd challenges of day-to-day life in a repressive, dysfunctional gerontocracy. Indeed, to get a sense for what it's like to be 18 and Cuban these days, imagine going to a high school that won a miraculous and inspiring football championship in 1959. The guy that quarterbacked the team some 50 years ago is still wearing the same damned uniform— only now he's the school principal, and he's decreed that all academic subjects must be studied within the context of that bygone championship game. Everyone at your school is now an honorary member of the football team—though the stadium is condemned from years of neglect, no actual games have been played in decades and anyone with the temerity to point out this discrepancy is summarily sent to detention. On most school days you're required to study your principal's old pass-routes and blocking schemes and tell him how ingenious he was to have devised them. All of which would seem insane were it not for the fact that tourists from wealthier schools—schools with actual, functioning football teams—are constantly visiting your class to marvel over how wonderful it was that your team triumphed 50 years ago, and gush about how proud you must be to have such innovative role models. In this context, it's easy to understand why young Cubans are underwhelmed by the idea of Che: To them, he's just another sepia portrait in the trophy case—handsome and intriguing, perhaps, but hardly relevant or revolutionary. Granted, it's not hard to find Che Guevara aficionados in Cuba—just keep an eye out for anyone who has the option to leave the country at their leisure. During my month in Havana, I met half a dozen Europeans with Che tattoos on various body parts, no less than two Uruguayan medical students who unironically wore black berets, and a woman from Oregon who sported a homemade "Guerrillero Heroico" tank top and insisted that the blame for contemporary Cuban misery could be traced to the small-minded prejudices of red-state America. Whenever I mentioned the more troubling aspects of Che's biography to these folks, none of them seemed all that phased. Sure, Che might have promoted his ideals through force and violence, they said, but unwavering conviction and action are the only forces that can change a complacent world. Sure, Che shrugged off torture and executions on his watch, but he was at heart an inspiring humanitarian who ultimately hoped to improve the lives of millions. Sure, Che tried to impose a one-size-fits-all political vision on faraway cultures—but at least that vision was just, and might well have worked had it been given a chance to take hold. This kind of rationalization sounded vaguely familiar at the time, and it wasn't until I returned to the United States that I realized neo- conservative apologists were using the exact same language and reasoning to defend the foreign policy decisions of George W. Bush. While it's doubtful that any filmmaker would endeavor to dramatize Bush through the unvarnished lens of his political ideals, that's more or less the treatment Guevara gets in "Che," Steven Soderbergh's four- hour, two-part film biopic, screening in select theaters nationwide. Soderbergh's project, which stars Academy Award-winner Benicio del Toro, depicts Che's military accomplishments in Cuba as well as his failed guerrilla insurgency in Bolivia. Though both installments of the film are too grungy and impressionistic to spin Guevara as a typecast Hollywood hero, the continual portrayal of Che sacrificing and suffering for his ideals makes him come off like something more fanciful—a warrior-humanist martyr, as comfortable tending to the sick and illiterate as he is brandishing his rifle or facing certain death. Guevara's less-than-saintly real-life exploits between his Cuba and Bolivia campaigns (including but not limited to his role in executing political prisoners in Havana, his callous mismanagement of the Cuban economy and his military blunderings in the Congo) are conveniently glossed over. Omission or embellishment of context is, in fact, a central pillar of the Che Guevara movie sub-genre (which goes all the way back to 1969's "Che!"—which starred Omar Sharif and was directed by the same guy who made "Soylent Green" and "Mandingo"). In the climactic scene of Walter Salles' 2004 film "The Motorcycle Diaries," for instance, a young Che played by Mexican heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal swims across a swollen Amazon tributary as a display of solidarity with a group of dispossessed Peruvian lepers. Read the actual diary on which the movie was based, however, and it's apparent that Guevara's river-swim was an apolitical test of his own aquatic skills—and, on saying goodbye to the lepers, he glibly noted that they looked "like a scene from a horror movie." Moreover, Guevara's unnerving sense of entitlement in the pages of "The Motorcycle Diaries" (at one point young Ernesto throws a sullen tantrum when a local shipping deputy won't comp his riverboat fare) never makes the transition onto Salles' big-screen version. Tempting as it may be to attribute Che's popular appeal to the reductionist tropes of photography and cinema, however, I'd wager his enduring potency goes beyond mere imagery. Of the many books that have been released or reprinted to coincide with the release of Soderbergh's movie, Humberto Fontova's "Exposing the Real Che Guevara" is perhaps the most telling. Published by Penguin's politically conservative Sentinel imprint, "Exposing the Real Che Guevara" is meant to be a polemic against Guevara's T-shirt-certified mythology— but in function it does a lot to show how Che's reputation actually benefits from the myopic fury (and misguided political influence) of those who hate him the most. Taken in selective doses, Fontova's book does punch some well-placed holes in Che's presumed humanism and military competence. The problem is that each argument invariably meanders off into subject matter that has little to do with the book's premise. A chapter that starts out as an indictment of Guevara's battlefield acumen ultimately turns into a tribute to the Cuban-exile fighters who stormed the Bay of Pigs in 1961; a chapter meant to debunk Che's intellectual proclivities wanders off into a jeremiad on behalf of the Cuban-exiles who lost their art collections after the revolution. In places, Fontova's books seems less an indictment of Guevara than the New York Times (which gave positive coverage to Che and Fidel in the months before they toppled Batista) or John F. Kennedy (who scuttled U.S. military support when the Bay of Pigs invasion went sour). Ultimately, "Exposing the Real Che Guevara" is less about Che Guevara than the "King Lear"-style resentments of the Cuban-Americans who hate him—and the effectiveness of its argument suffers as a result. In two lengthy chapters detailing Guevara's bloodthirsty stint as commander of Havana's La Cabaña Fortress prison, Fontova veers into abstraction by continually comparing Che and Fidel's tyranny to that of Hitler and Stalin instead of contemporary Latin American dictators like Somoza or Trujillo. The most damning comparison might well have been to draw parallels to the brutal repression of Batista himself—the very tyrant Che helped depose—but this would have been too awkward a juxtaposition for the Cuban exiles the author seems anxious to venerate. This gives the book a slightly schizophrenic tone, from which it never fully departs. At one point, Fontova convincingly argues that Guevara wanted the all-encompassing U.S. economic embargo that strains Cuban-American relations to this day. So why not ruin Che's master plan by lifting the embargo and flooding Cuba with American investment, trade and tourism? Fontova's answer is incoherent: "Libertarian-free-market ideologues got it wrong," he writes. "They insisted that with the lifting of the embargo, capitalists would sneak in and eventually blindside Castro. All the proof was to the contrary. Capitalism didn't sweep Castro away or even co-opt him. He swept it away." Such an inane suspension of logic and chronology would be easier to dismiss if it didn't mirror 50 years of American foreign policy toward Cuba. There is no doubt that Cuban exiles suffered when Fidel and Che took power all those years ago, but basing present-day policy decisions on 1959-vintage revenge fantasies is not only ineffective (as Castro's lengthy reign has illustrated)—it's bad for the image and national interests of a country that already has a less-than-honorable track record in Latin America. Che Guevara's radicalization is famously tied to America's moral hypocrisy in the region (specifically the CIA-sponsored 1954 coup in Guatemala, when Eisenhower chose the corporate interests of United Fruit Company over the authority of a democratically elected government)—and his revolutionary legacy will likely remain strong so long as the U.S. government flouts international law with the Helms-Burton Act, permits prisoner abuse in Guantánamo and punishes Cuba for the same set of political circumstances it tolerates in China and Vietnam. In recent years many people have pointed out how Che Guevara may someday be remembered as a capitalist brand as much as a communist firebrand. Those affronted by the intolerant extremes of Che's Marxism can take comfort in the fact that his visage is now used to sell T- shirts, belt buckles, Taco Bell gorditas, bikinis and "Cherry Guevara" ice cream sandwiches ("the revolutionary struggle of the cherries ... trapped between two layers of chocolate"). This in itself is a telling contradiction. But so long as U.S.-Cuba policy remains as warped and dated as the photos in Havana's Museo de la Revolución, Che Guevara will continue to thrive as a catchall symbol of the American government's own tendency to contradict itself. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MA @ DoHSS @ IITM" group. To post to this group, send email to ma-dohss-iitm at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ma-dohss-iitm+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.in/group/ma-dohss-iitm?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 00:07:44 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:37:44 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?b?OjogTWF1aiB+INmF2YjYrCAvLyBhdCBUcmFuc21l?= =?utf-8?q?diale=2E09?= In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0901280846y6fa20481keeeb6fe491403fd6@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0901280846y6fa20481keeeb6fe491403fd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0901281037p5f8caf73r611cf6ad4878e747@mail.gmail.com> Please watch Mauj at Transmediale.09 on the internet, and chat online during the sessions on 30 January 2009. The chat will appear on screen and will also provide oportunity for berlin participants to respond to it. - Salon - Silent Deep ~ 12pm Berlin | 4pm Karachi | 430pm Dehli - Conference - Shift, Break, Control - South ~ 3-5pm Berlin | 7-9pm Karachi | 730-930pm Dehli Live Streams transmediale.09 offers live video streams from the Conference and Salon. Starting on Tuesday 27, you will find a list of available streams here, in the stream-box. watch the streams| join the live chat home http://www.transmediale.de/ Silent Deep Part 1 - South-East Asia (Salon) http://www.transmediale.de/en/silent-deep http://www.transmediale.de/en/silent-deep-south-east-asia-en Shift, Break, Control - Cultural Perspectives beyond Policy (Conference) http://www.transmediale.de/en/shift-break-control-cultural-perspectives-beyond-p Conference tm.09: Making / Thinking: The Cultural Tomorrow (Intro) http://www.transmediale.de/en/conference-tm09-making-thinking-cultural-tomorrow \\ Mauj _ Collective for Open Technology, Art & Culture _ karachi -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 29 00:10:01 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:40:01 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <32144e990901280915r1a6d1f25q77a308af996fd219@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70901271039m59dec902kd58b480568db526e@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901280836y16544df0y8d329880ac971b2a@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990901280915r1a6d1f25q77a308af996fd219@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901281040p5e16905bl8d7c43f31bc9bf90@mail.gmail.com> Dear Partha, Thank you for responding. Please allow me to tell you why I used the word -magic-. Firstly I did not use magic with respect to IT, it was used in my response to Inder's mail with respect to the idea of a number. Secondly, when I choose to articulate the properties of number by the use of the word -magic-, I was perhaps alluding to an interpretation of one or many of the following meanings- 1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic. 2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. Compare contagious magic, imitative magic, sympathetic magic. 3. the use of this art: Magic, it was believed, could drive illness from the body. 4. the effects produced: the magic of recovery. 5. power or influence exerted through this art: a wizard of great magic. 6. any extraordinary or mystical influence, charm, power, etc.: the magic in a great name; the magic of music; the magic of spring. 7. (initial capital letter) the U.S. code name for information from decrypting machine-enciphered Japanese wireless messages before and during World War II. –adjective 8. employed in magic: magic spells; magic dances; magic rites. 9. mysteriously enchanting; magical: magic beauty. 10. of, pertaining to, or due to magic. 11. producing the effects of magic; magical: a magic touch. (You may find more such interpretations on the word -magic- here- http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=magic) As you can perhaps grasp from the list of meaning mentioned above, when we attribute the property of magic to something; as I have, in my response, I was perhaps, hinting to a range of possibilities, which may be interpreted as, either, the art of producing a desired effect as the meaning serialized in the second position above indicates; or the effects produced, as the meaning serialized in the fourth position above indicates. You see, one could argue, the Government of India wants the services of a -number- to deliver funds to the underprivileged, in other words one could say, the Government of India wants to have a desired effect of its benevolent policies towards the poor through the agency of this number, in other words, the properties of such a number which shall be used could be articulated as M-A-G-I-C-A-L. Similarly, we could also argue, that the Government of India wants a number, a National Identity Number, a NIN number to be used or employed to produce a desired effect, in so far as its policies pertaining to distribution of wealth or collection of taxes are concerned. In which case, we shall not be going completely off the mark and we shall not be indulging in any misconceptions, quite contrary to what your mail suggests, if attribute the properties of a number as magical. Now moving on to your second and subsequent points- 2. I have friends in the US with 2 licenses and 3 GC who move violations on requisite documents so that no one identity is compromised. So what should we do? Take that as a precedent to sanction 27,000 crore rupees? With no public debate, none what so ever because, Partha's two friends in the US have multiple identity documents and they would rather have one. I do not get this. And to be honest, it will neither excite me or make me depressed if India goes for national roll out on MNIC. For I will also have one and I shall have it because my government wants me to have one. But this must not act as a deterrent for us to not to talk about it from a range of perspectives and analyze it as thoroughly as possible. Because as citizens is it not our obligation to do so. To scrutinize every public policy so that the good of all is not in any way compromised. If you think, the answer is yes. Then this is exactly what I am doing. 3. Computers are STUPID. They will only say / do what we define, and our 'Chalta hai" attitude ensures everything is OK. Well...if Chalta hai is the attitude of India, then I do not know, whether to tremble with fear thinking what will happen to my private and personal information which also includes bank details, or to just let it be and think, that since nothing will happen because...you know...chalta hai will not allow anything to happen!!! Or just talk about it, think about it and have a harmless conversation. As I have said earlier, nothing what we say or write on the reader list will have a policy implication. This list does not have either any power or any influence to charm any national policy, it has not shown any propensity to do so in last nine years of its existence anyway, so for a moment could I suggest that we will not loose anything it we suspend judgment and allow ourselves some space to think. We are just trying to understand an unfolding social reality. And what is any harm in that. b) India and Pakistan Used to think India was baaaa...ad, till I saw Pakistan. There is no act... only jokers miming Frankly, I am not interested in Pakistan, for I find political Pakistan with its continuing romance with feudalism- stupid and sickening. I find the attitude of the smug Pakistani elite to allow feudalism after all these years and even after having access to a range of political sensibilities be it European, American, Arab or Indian, absolutely disgusting and abhorrable. Hence I do not think they are jokers, I would rather think of them as mental retards who are still stuck, it seems, in the 18th-19th century's charm of zamindari and all the comforts that this sick, inhuman and disgusting system provides perhaps with the best form of aish and aaram. c)Passports are viable when boundaries hold a meaning - or a state / nation has a value, an EQ Where is that now? Not quite true, as history suggests, passports were valid and viable even when boundaries were loose in a frontier like state. I think in my experience an entity like a nation state still exists and it has got a presence. Please allow me to share an anecdote in this regard, once a couple of years ago, I was traveling to Kingston in Canada from Delhi in India and as a matter of curiosity I counted the number of doors that I had to pass through. The flight was from IGI to Heathrow to Toronto to Kingston. I passed 42 doors in this process, of which 15 had armed guards and I was body checked four times. From this experience I am tempted to conclude, that national boundaries are present and they have a meaning. Of course, a counter experience of not respecting national boundaries will perhaps negate the presence of a nation state and I am not laying claim to any generalization but I am open to a conversation on the idea of a nation state. Warm regards Taha From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 01:17:57 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:17:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is painting a currency note which can not be forged unless you act illegally? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901280836y16544df0y8d329880ac971b2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70901270520m582687ecnc4e7776616785f5a@mail.gmail.com> <776641.65482.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70901271039m59dec902kd58b480568db526e@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901280836y16544df0y8d329880ac971b2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70901281147w54824e72h393d293ae630fbe3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, I guess we agree on most of what we are saying. But as I suggested earlier, the subject is vast and can be sorted out so quickly. But thanks for many valid points and info. I agree, that people can not be identified by numbers alone, there is something more that a name, a colour, or religious identity which makes an individual. That individual who has journeyed from ancient times to the present day is still carrying forward some strange past with her/him all the time, which we can't simply see through these short cut solutions to identity problems. National identity is one such identity which time and again falls short of ' a complete desired identity' . We agree on most of other point which we discussed through this exchange on fake/original thought. I have already suggested that we can always separate fake from original. But we need to intensity this exercise only if gives some dividends to the our basic understanding of being a human being. If that binary is imposed on us, we have every right to turn our tracks and see what is good for us and what is not. That is why I said the difference is a temporary one, which does not apply to all the differences we have historically, but we must be free to change a fake to an original and vice versa. That is art even, life even. Raza originals can be separated from Raza fakes, but that is not my final destination. Similarly, we need a currency note which is not forged, but we can question the State which behaves like a 'thug' sometimes, if not the currency which it prints. So we can always question those structure which define 'the state' even. We need not mark an citizen as 'fake' who questions anything that qualifies as 'original' in the eyes of the sate. So National Identity cards have a limited function, as tokens to be possessed for day to day function like a currency note, which again can be forged, by those who see faults in the systems of Laws in their own unique way. There are ways to dissent, albeit responsibility accompanies dissent, which is often brushed aside. We need to learn, how difficult and profound it is, if one takes a stand in favour of known fakes against known originals. But some times is funny. I heard, there are some areas in Pune, where Rs.7 currency notes are valued in the market. It is half of Rs.5 currency note glued to half of Rs.2 currency note which becomes Rs.7 currency note. We have 1,70,000 crores of fake currency in India, and what I should do. The same ink and same paper is used to manufacture them. What I am supposed to do? The difference is vanishing very fast. With currency notes it is still different, but with paintings the photography has entirely taken over, if one speaks conceptually. Even a photograph as ones true representative in a identity card is questioned. So, I satirically suggested why not to have digital designs of ones corneas implanted on identity cards, which again is vulnerable to hackers and computer virus. Warmly IS On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > Dear Inder, > > Thank you for your response. > > Let me quote you first and carry on from there... > >> See, it is only now that we see it like that, because the complexities of >> times were not as heavy on their heads as they are now. > > To a large extent I agree with this position but at the same time I also > feel that for every age this position must have been true. For instance, I > would like to believe that in Aristotle's time his thought or general > discussions around the nature of knowledge, aesthetics, rhetoric, governance > etc would have been most advanced form of thinking precisely because no > other arguments were present which could have counter argued, or build upon > Aristotle's thought or that of his peers with as much of poignancy as > perhaps people from other ages were able to do. Having said that, I also > believe that coupling of time under a generic category of 'age' is not > precise, it is always negotiated. One can never say it with precision that > at such and such date Renaissance ends or Enlightenment begins. > >> I believe, European Wars necessitated the need for a photograph to >> represent an individual, which gave shape to a formal pass port with a >> regular photograph in it. > > On the contrary, it seems European Wars were an opportunity for the nation > states to condense the debate around passports. Hence, crystallization of > the notion of passport could be seen as an attempt to make the idea of a > nation state more unarguable. > > Passports have a longer history, from whatever little I know, passports were > called, 'Safe conducts' till 15th Century in England. 'Safe conduct' was > basically a note, signed by the King or Queen requesting authorities of > other lands to not to harm the person of the carrier of the note. What was > interesting in this practice was, the King or the Queen could issue this > note to anyone. There was no distinction or discrimination on the basis of > nationality, so a fake citizen or an original alien could apply for and get > a passport. Hence there has been quite a change, in the last say, six > hundred years; as, now passports have become a virtual marker of one's > nationality. And normatively speaking today, it seems, only an original > citizen but no fake alien or no fake citizen and no original alien would get > a passport. > > (You may follow this url for a detailed time line on the evolution of > passports in England, if you're interested- > http://www.ips.gov.uk/passport/about-history-overview.asp) > > The anecdote about Australian artist is excellent, because it, in a sense, > questions a State's position about how are we to appear as our 'formal > selves'. I think we need to probe further into the 'history-of-pose' to > arrive at preliminary answers as to how and why are we asked to pose in a > particular manner. Who are these people and what is their intellectual > lineage which guides them to make us pose in a particular manner. This has > also got to do with the idea that how 'official'/'formal' narratives of > poses are constructed and manufactured. > > At times one wonders who needs who more, for in a way, the originals need > fakes to be distinguished as originals and the other way round too. I think > as a thought experiment it would be an adventure to think of a world where > the imagination of fake does not exist. I think you were not entirely wrong > to suggest in an earlier mail in this thread, that, 'the difference between > original and fake is just a temporary one.' > > Historically too, we find narratives of fake and original being negotiated > again and again. There is a non-permanence regarding original/fake in > history too as you imply. Take the history of modern Indian policing for > instance. Here too one finds ample evidence of a nervous and neurotic state > power first appearing as 'illegitimate' then after a passage of time as > 'legitimate' trying desperately to fracture in practices which we now see in > the form of 'brands', of 'identification drives', of this market induced > enthusiasm which might also be read as -frenzy- to inhumanly assign numbers > to people, to regularize, to legitimize, to record, to verify and to > classify. I referred the exercise to assign numbers to human beings as > inhuman because we are still, in many ways are emerging from the un-sayable > violence which practices introduced by Hitler, for instance wrought by > marking Jews with numbers in concentration camps. If we ask any Jew who had > been to Auschwitz, whether she liked that beautiful number on her forearm, I > think, in her reply, we can perhaps know a lot more about this much valued > relationship between a number and a human being. I wonder what is the moral > argument for the Government of India to assign numbers to every Indian. > > Anyways, let us for a moment look at an instance in the history of modern > Indian Policing with respect to this debate around original/fake or > copy/original. > > One of the first move to systematize police procedures in India, was > initiated by William Henry Sleeman later Sir Sleeman, during his campaign to > eradicate, 'thugs' of India between 1829 and 1847. In 1947-a hundred years > later, as we all know, India became a post colonial state. > > But Sleeman, as not many of us know, was born in 1788 in a little known > Cornish village, his father Phillip was a supervisor of Excise who was given > the responsibility of catching Smugglers/pirates. Sleeman's first home was > Stratton which was a smuggling country and by many accounts, Sleeman's > ancestors were involved this trade. > > Sleeman's bête noire was Feringeea who was born in 1800, he was a Brahmin, a > twice born Brahmin at that. A Dvija. Feringea's father Purusram was > considered as a great thug leader of Chambal valley. > > Before Sleeman, it seems there were no systematic police archives which > contained any personal information on 'thugs', like before MNIC there does > not exist any systematic archives which contain personal information on > citizens of India. > > Sleeman assigned an officer on every case and all the raw data was entered > into a register which contained the names of every 'Thug' who was > identified, just as the government of India has kindly proposed to make a > National Register of Citizenship and a National Register of population which > will contain the name and other information classified in sixteen different > categories to be contained in these registers. > > Every 'Thug' was assigned a unique number, just as, all of us are soon going > have our own National Identity Numbers. Against this number, Sleeman > recorded information pertaining to his name, his location, details of his > associates and the crimes for which his was accused,like, for all of us in > India, we will soon have an interlinked database, wherein any official > having our NIN number can have access to sensitive personal and financial > information, of course for official purposes only. And I would argue that > after having entrusted our information to the Indian Government, we must not > offer 'surprise' as a reaction, in case this database containing our > information find its way to a thrift shop on MP3, like it did, in case of > data belonging to US army personnel recently. Because may be this is how > things are meant to be. > > (Man 'finds US troop data' on MP3 > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7853213.stm) > > While things were not meant to be in Sleeman's case, because there was no > precedent, to begin with. He had to use his own intelligence to separate > wheat from chaff, identify the original from the fake or its copy. He had > all the legitimizing arguments working for him because he was dealing with > criminals and murderers, like Hitler had all the legitimizing arguments > working for him because he was dealing with 'Jews'. I wonder what is the > ethical basis for the Government of India to argue that assigning numbers to > every Indian is in the good of the nation. Sleeman's department after his > campaign evolved into an all India police force, who were given the > responsibility to gather information on Indian Nationalist groups and other > potential 'rebel' leaders, but of course the department was officially > called the Central Intelligence Office, its popular name was, however, the > 'Thugi Dufter'. > > Thugs caught by Sleeman's gang were branded on the forehead or on the back > with word 'Thug' marked by the process of Godna which is essentially > tattooing through a needle in Hindi or in Persian characters. > > I think what we are witnessing in the process of MNIC is perhaps an act of > 'closing-in' by a state of an experiment which was started by Sleeman to > first garner information on a fringe population of criminals. Later this > fringe population included nationalist leaders and 'rebels' and now it seems > it is everyone. > > There is one more strand of thought, which emerges from this narrative which > of course, pertains to the idea of Fake and Original OR Copy and Original. > Sleeman's forefathers were Pirates i.e. they did not pay tax to the state > while transacting goods. Sleeman,on the other hand, started his career as an > enforcer of State's diktat, so one could argue that while his forefathers > were engaged in illegitimate read 'fake' practices, he was in a legitiamate > read 'original' practice. Sleeman found his greatest calling as a ruthless > administrator while in pursuit of a man,who was an Indian but called himself > Feringeea (meaning alien, or a Gora, a White, a non-native) and who was a > Dvija or a twice born (so we can always debate, which birth of his was > original and which fake). Sleeman was able to put a full stop to this debate > by inserting a number which identified Feringeea as Feringeea forever or > maybe not, for like Munch's Scream, as you point out, we do not know which > one is the one or whether the one is really the one because, we are organic > and we change slowly and subtly and consistently over time. > > I think, your examples from the pharmaceutical industry, from the art world, > and from history point to a hesitation, a lack of belief or a conviction > with which the larger social world around us views identity. I wonder what > gives the Government of India so much confidence in the magic of a number, > perfected by toils of colonial enforcers like Sleeman and by people like > Hitler, which will help crystallize identity of us Indians as Indians. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From vashsand at hotmail.com Thu Jan 29 03:59:28 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:29:28 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] for Taha mohammed- i hope u find ur favorite colour "grey" her too In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7852837.stmGet news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it out! _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 29 04:22:26 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:52:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] for Taha mohammed- i hope u find ur favorite colour "grey" her too In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40901281452j73680accsccc5d5be3ba0a556@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sandeep, If you could please click again on the link given I think you may find the story as I did. In my response to Inder I have given the link as- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7853213.stm as you may notice the link above is quite different from the one you have kindly posted, which was- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7852837.stmGet I do know how the last three letters 'Get' got through here. May be by magic!! So all you have to do is to delete the last three letters. Or you may choose to copy and paste the link that I have just now pasted for you. If we click on the above link then, hopefully we will get to the story. Or one may access this story on the reader list archives here, as I have forwarded the same story pertaining to the lost US army database being 'discovered' by a civilian. http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-January/017815.html Before I end this mail can I please suggest two things- first, I think you have a great sense of sarcasm, and I think you can perhaps hone it more, that is, if you want by may be, responding to ongoing threads. Secondly- I will feel grateful if you please write my correct name which is Taha Mehmood and not Mohammad as you perhaps mistakenly implied. Warm regards Taha From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 10:21:21 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:51:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Miliband=E2=80=99s_Freak_Show_In_the_Subc?= =?utf-8?q?ontinent?= Message-ID: <571293.1125.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This article is available only to subscribers,so the link won't work. I do not have time to seek corroboration for the claims in the article,so I can't vouch for its accuracy.Readers are expected to not take this at face value. http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/private/2009/2009_1-9/2009-4/pdf/59-61_3604.pdf Miliband’s Freak Show In the Subcontinent by Ramtanu Maitra The British Foreign Secretary-with-an-Attitude, David Miliband, was sent to the Indian Subcontinent the week of Jan. 12, by Her Majesty’s Service, with two difficult tasks. Both were of crucial importance for London. And, when Miliband found that the old colonial subjects were not in any mood to accept his proposals, he put on a freak show, to the chagrin of the Indians. India’s staid news daily The Hindu reported on Jan. 17, that senior officials in the Ministry of External Affairs said that Miliband acted in an “aggressive” manner, in his closed-door meetings with External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. In particular, the Prime Minister’s Office took offense at his strident arguments that the Nov. 26-29 Mumbai terror attacks were really the result of the Kashmir issue remaining unresolved. Officials said Miliband berated Singh and Mukherjee on this point, and said that whatever India may wish to say on the matter in public, in private, it must accept that it had to do more to work with Pakistan to find a solution to the Kashmir issue, according to The Hindu. “Yes, there is a Kashmir issue and we need to resolve it,” the Indian side told the British minister. “But when a group like the Lashkar, which says it supports ‘global jihad,’ attacks Mumbai and kills Americans and Brits and Jews, what does this have to do with Kashmir?” All told, say Indian officials, the two meetings with Her Majesty’s minister were “pretty awful.” The Respectful New Delhi On the other hand, Indian officials, a large number of whom are Anglophiles, were kind. “He’s a young man, and I guess this is the way he thinks diplomacy is conducted,” a senior official told The Hindu. “In both his meetings, his posture and style of talking were a little too aggressive. The PM [Prime Minister] and EAM [External Affairs Minister] are much older and this is not what they are used to,” he added, describing the meetings as “quite an episode.” Miliband can act well as a villain. When he was Environment Secretary, he was picked by director Steven Spielberg to play the film role of Abraham Lincoln’s assassin, John Wilkes Booth. Spielberg said, in an interview in 2006: “Casting for the film is really at an early stage, so far only Liam Neeson is down to be in the film. . . . However, when I saw David [Miliband] in Paris I saw the face that was perfect for my film.” Both the Indian Prime Minister and External Affairs Minister should feel better that Miliband did not act out in real life what Spielberg wants him to do in the Lincoln movie. Why did Miliband act out so violently? The reasons are that Her Majesty’s Services had sent him to accomplish two objectives. The first task was to pressure New Delhi and put the Kashmir issue under a spotlight. The second task was to link the Mumbai terror with Kashmir, and close all investigations related to the attack. The first task was supposedly justified by the fact that because Britain’s 1.8 million Muslims are mainly Mirpuris (from the Pakistan part of Jammu and Kashmir), and of Pakistani origin. In 2002, a survey showed that British Muslims, when polled, say that the Kashmir dispute dominates their concerns, and that they are fearful of a nuclear war erupting between India and Pakistan over the dispute. MI5 and the Mirpuris Analysts said the poll was an important indicator of the domestic pressure on leading British politicians to articulate their constituents’ opinion on controversial South Asian issues. The poll recorded “the world’s biggest expatriate Kashmiri population in Birmingham,” in northwest England. A leading Birmingham Mirpuri politician subsequently told the press that the opinion poll would probably go a long way towards convincing mainstream British leaders of the need to hammer away at “India’s resistance to international engagement and mediation” on Kashmir. In a hard-hitting statement to the British Parliament, then-Foreign Secretary Jack Straw had once said Kashmir was a bilateral issue, but of international concern because of the nuclear implications and human rights deficit. What is going on? Why is the British establishment so concerned about the Mirpuri Muslims? According to a high-level intelligence source in India, the Mirpuris in the Pakistani diaspora in Britain have been in the fore front of those supporting jihadi terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K), and other parts of India, since 1993, when the Pakistani jihadi organizations of Afghan vintage were infiltrated into India by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). The Mipuris collected and sent funds to the jihadi terrorists in India. Many of them underwent training in the camps of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the Hizbul Mujahideen (HuM) the Jaish-e-Muhammad (JeM), and the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami (HUJI) in Pakistan, and assisted them in their jihadi operations. British intelligence was aware of members of the Pakistani diaspora going to Pakistan for training, but closed its eyes to it, since it thought that they were going to wage a jihad against the Indians in J&K. The same intelligence source points out that a careful examination of the details relating to the various jihadi terrorism-related cases in Britain would reveal that the British domestic intelligence service, MI5, was intercepting the telephone conversations of these Mirpuris and other Punjabi Muslims with their friends and relatives, in which they spoke of their going to Pakistan for jihadi training. MI5 did not take any action against them because it thought that they were going to wage a jihad only against the Indians, and hence, did not pose a threat to the British. MI5 even intercepted the telephone conversation of one of the perpetrators of the London blasts of July 7, 2005 (known as 7/7), in which he discussed going to Pakistan for jihadi training. The agency did not act on it, thinking he intended to wage a jihad against the Indians. In fact, MI5 wanted the jihadis to attack India. The British objective since 1947 has been to create a conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir, to maintain that conflict through the jihadis with the objective of creating an independent Kashmir. London has long been promising this outcome. But, New Delhi got in the way. Will the Children Now Devour Their Parents? Over the years, MI5 began to lose “total control” over these Mirpuris who had their eyes trained on Kashmir. This loss of control showed through on 7/7, when MI5 realized that their disgruntled “puppets” were not talking any more of waging a jihad against India, but instead, were planning to strike at the British. Writing in the Guardian July 18, 2008, Madeleine Bunting pointed out a few interesting facts. First, the families of the three Leeds-based bombers involved in the 7/7 incident in London were originally, in all likelihood, from the Mirpur part of Pakistani Kashmir. Mirpuris form 70% of the British Muslim population, and the figure is even higher in northern towns, Bunting claimed. Just as the dominant role of Saudis in 9/11 led to a spotlight on the religion and politics of Saudi Arabia, so investigations of 7/7 focussed on the Mirpuris— the long-maintained MI5 assets. These rural, impoverished residents of Mirpur, and two other adjacent districts, provided cheap, unskilled labor for Britain in the 1960s and ’70s. Most immigrants were from subsistence-farming communities, and had had little or no schooling. They made a huge cultural and geographical leap to settle in Britain, and Her Majesty’s Service promised them their return to an independent Kashmir. It is evident from the way that Miliband behaved— or misbehaved—that the British establishment feels that if the Kashmir issue cannot be put under the spotlight again, thus dashing the hopes of its 700,000 Mirpuris, London will face the wrath of the terrorists they created and maintained. Therefore, it was necessary to browbeat the former colonial subjects, in the aftermath of the Mumbai attack, to link all terrorism in the Subcontinent to Kashmir. One of the things they brought with them was the perception of a long history of dispossession and marginalization. Partition brought terrible bloodshed and the division of Kashmir between Pakistan and India. (This was the issue cited, until very recently, as the most pressing political priority in the U.K., by the majority of British Muslims.) Within Pakistan, Mirpur is, to the more dominant Punjabis, what the Irish have historically been to the British, explained one Mirpuri. Zardari Throws in a Monkey-Wrench Spielberg’s John Wilkes Booth also ran into problems in Pakistan. Miliband was on an official two-day visit there the day the Mumbai hotels were attacked, but no statement was issued by him at the time. But, on Jan. 16, on his visit to Islamabad, his objective was twofold: First, Pakistan should accuse the Lashkar-e-Taiba for the Mumbai attacks, and thus claim responsibility; second, Pakistan should also make clear that Kashmir is the dispute which triggered the Mumbai incident. Earlier, London had dished out misinformation through MI5-linked analysts to press home the Kashmir issue. Take, for instance, a recent write-up by Paul Cruikshank, author of the book Al Qaeda: The Current Threat. In the article, “Tackling Kashmir,” in the Guardian, he said the Nov. 26-29 Mumbai attack “was carried out by Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a Kashmiri militant group. . . .” The fact remains that the LeT, created by the Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri group; it is active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, and in Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, there is hardly a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most of the LeT members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal areas, in addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It is unlikely that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he chose to distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is what keeps India and Pakistan at each other’s throats. Nonetheless, both of Miliband’s objectives in Pakistan focussed on a goal: to close the investigation on the Mumbai attack quickly. Here, too, Miliband met with resistance. Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari told him that Pakistan is determined to uncover the “full facts” behind the Mumbai attacks, and needs India’s cooperation for the trial of any suspects linked to the terror strikes. Zardari, during a meeting with Miliband, also said that an elite Pakistani counter-terror team is conducting a probe into the Mumbai incident. Whether Zardari would carry out a full-fledged investigation, or whether New Delhi would back him in doing so, is not certain. But it was enough to scare Miliband. There are a number of sensitive issues at stake in the case of a full investigation. London: Ignore the Elephant in the Room To begin with, a part of the drug money that is generated in this area from the gargantuan production of opium annually in Afghanistan, is being laundered through the Pakistan ISI-MI6-CIA protected criminal, Dawood Ibrahim, who runs his operation through the British-controlled Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Drugs come into Dubai through Dawood’s “mules,” who are protected by the ISI-MI6; and by containers which carry equipment sent to Dubai for “repair” from Kandahar, and elsewhere in southern Afghanistan. British troops control the southern Helmand province in Afghanistan where 53% of Afghanistan’s 8,200 tons of opium was produced in 2007. The drugs are converted to cash in Dubai, where Dawood maintains a palatial residence, similar to the one he maintains in Karachi. Dubai is a tax-free island-city, and a major offshore banking center. With the development of the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC), which is its newest free-trade zone, flexible and unrestricted offshore banking has become big business. Many of the world’s largest banks already have significant presence there; big names such as Abbey National Offshore, HSBC Offshore, ABN Amro, ANZ Grindlays, Banque Paribas, Banque de Caire, Barclays, Dresdner, and Merrill Lynch, all have offices in the Emirate already. In other words, the drugs that Dawood’s mules carry are doing a yeoman’s service to the Anglo-Dutch global financial system, as well as for the terrorists who are killing innocents all over the world. Why create waves about that?, New Delhi ponders. It is certain that Her Majesty’s Service’s movers and shakers were not amused by Miliband’s trip. In fact, they will be deeply concerned about the failure of their emissary to accomplish what was urgent for London. Now, let the chips fall where they may. From pranesh at cis-india.org Thu Jan 29 12:04:23 2009 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:04:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility Message-ID: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC and web developers from organisations from the private sector in different parts of the country to come together and learn and share basic concepts of web accessibility. There shall be thirty participants in all. The call for participation is open now on a first-come-first-served basis. There are no fees for participation. Those interested may contact Nirmita Narasimhan, Programme Manager at . About the organizers: The Centre for Internet and Society is a Bangalore based non-profit, which brings together a team of practitioners, theoreticians, researchers and artists to work on the emerging field of Internet and Society to critically engage with concerns of digital pluralism, public accountability and pedagogic practices, with particular emphasis on South-South dialogues and exchange. We focus on areas such as anonymity/privacy, censorship, surveillance, free and open source software, open standards, open access, family, sexual practices, addiction, intellectual property rights, piracy, ICT4D, digital and participation divide and digital communities and movements. Please visit our website at to learn more about our work. Regards, Pranesh -- Pranesh Prakash Programme Manager Centre for Internet and Society T: +91 80 40926283 W: http://www.cis-india.org From pkray11 at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 15:24:12 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:24:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! Message-ID: <98f331e00901290154v64abec4s17c014544055f97@mail.gmail.com> No 'Pub Culture' to be allowed in Karnataka. - Chief Minister, Karnataka. No 'North Indian' to be allowed in Mumbai. - Raj Thakrey *Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.... **What should we do? Run relief camps for them? Do we want to open baby-producing centers? Hum paanch, humaare pachhees. (We five, our 25). - Narendra Modi * Dear all, The progressive, democratic and secular sections are protesting against the fascists for many many years. The time has come to stop all kinds of association with such gangs and people. There is no point in debating with them on any issue or having any kind of engagement. The only solution is that we must consolidate our solidarity and isolate these barbaric elements. Let us reach out to people at large. Prakash K Ray From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 15:30:52 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:30:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! In-Reply-To: <98f331e00901290154v64abec4s17c014544055f97@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00901290154v64abec4s17c014544055f97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690901290200y29baf457v65b6303bd22926de@mail.gmail.com> Boycott Communists too! Boycott Separatists too! Isolation to these barbaric mindless hooligans is certainly something we can do :-) On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM, prakash ray wrote: > No 'Pub Culture' to be allowed in Karnataka. > - Chief Minister, Karnataka. > > No 'North Indian' to be allowed in Mumbai. > - Raj Thakrey > > *Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.... **What should we do? > Run relief camps for them? Do we want to open baby-producing centers? Hum > paanch, humaare pachhees. (We five, our 25). > - Narendra Modi > * > Dear all, > > The progressive, democratic and secular sections are protesting against the > fascists for many many years. The time has come to stop all kinds of > association with such gangs and people. There is no point in debating with > them on any issue or having any kind of engagement. The only solution is > that we must consolidate our solidarity and isolate these barbaric > elements. > Let us reach out to people at large. > > Prakash K Ray > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 15:50:05 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:50:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - Sangh Sangh ! Message-ID: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Pub bashing BJP calls Cong conservative for the same *Agencies * Posted: Jan 29, 2009 at 1438 hrs IST *New Delhi:* Condemning the statement of Rajasthan Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot against pub culture, BJP on Thursday accused the Congressof conservatism and of indulging in politics on such issues. "Yesterday we saw the Chief Minister of Rajasthan Ashok Gehlot saying he will close down all pubs and is against pub culture. BJP would like an answer from the Congress on the issue and their stand as far as pubs are concerned. It reflects the conservatism of the Congress party. It should stop politics over this issue, apologise to BJP and make its stand clear," BJP spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy told reporters. The right-wing party, which has espoused the cause of Indian culture and tradition in the past, sought to club Gehlot's statement with the Ram Sena attack on women in a Mangalore pub on January 24. Countering the Congress allegation that it had links with Ram Sena, BJP said it was the Congress which was close to this organisation as its leaders had shared the dais with Ram Sena chief Pramod Muthalik in Pune. "The Congress party has always charged BJP of being conservative. And in a similar way it has charged the BJP of involvement with Ram Sena though BJP has condemned their actions. We would certainly like an answer about why Delhi Chief Minister Shiela Dikshit was sharing the stage with Ram Sena Chief in a program in Pune at the invitation of Congress leader Suresh Kalmadi," Rudy said. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 17:04:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:04:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - Sangh Sangh ! In-Reply-To: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all After reading this article, I am thinking who is the more hypocritic of the two: the BJP or the Congress. Let us be very clear about the nature of the parties. As my friend Aashish (who is a member of this list as well) told me once, all parties in India (the only exception in some sense for me here is the Left, at least ideologically) are basically conservative. This is very much true, as I shall point out. Gandhi, the Father of our Nation was infact conservative in certain sense, especially if we look at it. He was absolutely conservative about the creature called 'market', and must have been highly appalled at the nature of consumerism which has grown in India and elsewhere in the world. Of course, he was radical when we point out caste and non-violence as an instrument of dissent, but I don't think he would have supported the 'pub culture' which has grown in India, although he would never support violence against women. The Congress, born from the values Gandhi and Nehru gave, is essentially a conservative organization. Infact, if I may add so, in order to pander to fundamentalists or conservatists on both sides, has been their hallmark. On one hand, they passed the 'Muslim Personal Law' to ensure the Shah Bano judgement was turned redundant; on the other they also allowed the locks of Ram Mandir to be opened. The end result is known to all. The BJP is of course conservative, as it grows from the RSS, which has a particular code of life as based on Hindutva. Hence, they have problems with Valentines' Day, pubs and so on. Of course, Congress doesn't also like them, but yes they don't interfere with them as well, as long as it doesn't cause any problems. Infact, if the Congress must be criticized for being conservative, the BJP in Gujarat must be criticized for not implementing the mantra of 'prohibition' effectively in cities and urban areas. The reason is simple. The Gujarati middle class is one of the strongest supporters of Modi and BJP, and is also the major consumer of foreign branded alcohol. What's more, the investors coming in 'Vibrant Gujarat' since the last few years also have approved of their dissatisfaction with such prohibition. Infact, this was one of the issues, which was raised by Congress (and of course it failed), in the Assembly 2007 elections. Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 17:13:47 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:13:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - Sangh Sangh ! In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901290343m279dfc41hb96c1614da8e9c67@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , I see no exceptions , least being the leftist . Infact i consider them one of the most dangerous 'species' . I find it amusing that Congress talks of secularism wherin they have to credit the slaughter of thousands of Sikhs in 1984 and killings of Kashmiri Hindus in 1989-90 onwards. I find it amusing that BJP talks about not being a Hindu party wherein they have to their credit of creating a hindu votebank. I find it amsuing for the leftists to being on side of trade unions and workers , when they remained mute spectators during merciless beating of Honda Workers [ Gurudass Gupta was there] . All parties are more or less on an agenda to be visible, rrespective of whether they fulfill their supporters wishes. Regards Pawan On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > After reading this article, I am thinking who is the more hypocritic of the > two: the BJP or the Congress. > > Let us be very clear about the nature of the parties. As my friend Aashish > (who is a member of this list as well) told me once, all parties in India > (the only exception in some sense for me here is the Left, at least > ideologically) are basically conservative. This is very much true, as I > shall point out. > > Gandhi, the Father of our Nation was infact conservative in certain sense, > especially if we look at it. He was absolutely conservative about the > creature called 'market', and must have been highly appalled at the nature > of consumerism which has grown in India and elsewhere in the world. Of > course, he was radical when we point out caste and non-violence as an > instrument of dissent, but I don't think he would have supported the 'pub > culture' which has grown in India, although he would never support violence > against women. > > The Congress, born from the values Gandhi and Nehru gave, is essentially a > conservative organization. Infact, if I may add so, in order to pander to > fundamentalists or conservatists on both sides, has been their hallmark. On > one hand, they passed the 'Muslim Personal Law' to ensure the Shah Bano > judgement was turned redundant; on the other they also allowed the locks of > Ram Mandir to be opened. The end result is known to all. > > The BJP is of course conservative, as it grows from the RSS, which has a > particular code of life as based on Hindutva. Hence, they have problems > with > Valentines' Day, pubs and so on. Of course, Congress doesn't also like > them, > but yes they don't interfere with them as well, as long as it doesn't cause > any problems. > > Infact, if the Congress must be criticized for being conservative, the BJP > in Gujarat must be criticized for not implementing the mantra of > 'prohibition' effectively in cities and urban areas. The reason is simple. > The Gujarati middle class is one of the strongest supporters of Modi and > BJP, and is also the major consumer of foreign branded alcohol. What's > more, > the investors coming in 'Vibrant Gujarat' since the last few years also > have > approved of their dissatisfaction with such prohibition. Infact, this was > one of the issues, which was raised by Congress (and of course it failed), > in the Assembly 2007 elections. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 29 18:31:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:01:50 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-79 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901290501l28d8f232t18f857fa9fe3ea34@mail.gmail.com> http://www.rediff.com/computer/1998/nov/04cards.htm Smart cards for everyone, says Seshagiri Email this story to a friend. The home ministry has launched one of the largest ever information technology projects in the country to issue identity cards to Indian citizens and work permits to immigrants, claimed Dr N Seshagiri, member-convenor of the Prime Minister's Task Force on Information Technology. Inaugurating an international seminar on smart card technology, applications and business opportunities at the IT.Com industry jamboree in Bangalore this week, Dr Seshagiri said the initiative would not only check largescale influx of illegal immigrants but also check inter-state migration that has been growing at an alarming rate. Dr Seshagiri is also the director general of the National Imformatics Centre. Claiming that about a million people crossed over illegally from Bangladesh into India, he said such things happen when there is no proper monitoring mechanism. He said the Rs 26 billion project would be based on smart card technology. The state owned Chandigarh based Semiconductor Complex Limited would be involved in its implementation. UNI From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 29 18:35:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:05:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-80 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901290505x17c69257o326b86206b3eee47@mail.gmail.com> http://howrah.org/top_story/10062.html Census to keep citizens' biometric records: Patil 24 April, 2008 New Delhi: After the successful completion of a pilot project on a multi-purpose identity card, the Government is planning to dovetail the preparation of a National Population Register (NPR) with the 2011 Census, Home Minister Shivraj Patil said today. "The data in the NPR will have specified characteristics of each individual. The photograph and finger biometrics will be added subsequent to the census," Patil said at a two-day data users' Conference for the 2001 Census. He also said that the creation of a NPR would usher in an era of register-based census in the country. This would help in having estimates of population on a real-time basis by combining it with the system of registration of births and deaths in the country. Patil kicked off the process for conducting India's next official census, the largest administrative exercise in the world involving some billion-plus people. (IANS) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Jan 29 20:21:11 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:51:11 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] India Muslims in 'torture' rally (???) Message-ID: <65be9bf40901290651p613e4e96ta0cb8b8ce74b2f7e@mail.gmail.com> Dear all It seems that the nonsense is still on. Please read the BBC story below for more. Once again the ghost of the 'Indian Muslim' is called up to articulate, a demonstration by 2000 people, who were basically from UP, which is a Samajwadi Party base and one might argue that in the light of up-coming general elections, any demonstration like this one works as a good PR exercise. The story has same-stereotyped images of Muslim male with beards, skull caps underlined by narrative of victimization and so on. This is, I think, one more instance of irresponsible communal profiling by big media which must provoke us to ask more questions like- Who is this mythical guy called 'Indian Muslim'? What does one mean by this Maulana Risley's inventive socio-religious category called 'Indian Muslim'? Please read this completely incoherent excerpt from the story- The group warned of the risks of stigmatising and alienating "an entire community". Now could I ask what does the ' entire community' stands for or means? For in my limited knowledge of the practise of Islam in India, the Bohars are different Ahmadis who are different from Barelvies who are different from Deobandis who are different from Wahabis who are different from Hanafis and so on. At the same time one could also assume them to be Indians who happen to follow one of the many interpretations of Islam, like it is there in every religion. I wonder why did Joana Jolly or who ever it was at BBC choose to frame a small demonstration at Jantar Mantar as 'Indian Mulims' holding a 'Mass demontration'. Maybe by Oxford street standards it was 'Mass' but it was certainly not the voice of 'Indian Muslims'. Regards Taha http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7857468.stm *Indian Muslims are holding a mass demonstration in the capital, Delhi, to protest against alleged harassment of Muslims by security forces.* Most of them arrived in Delhi on Thursday morning in a special train. The train travelled from Azamgarh in northern Uttar Pradesh state and picked up more passengers en route to Delhi. The organisers are also seeking a meeting with the interior minister. Indian police have been blamed by the community for torturing Muslims. Security agencies, for example, have arrested 10 men from Azamgarh district in Uttar Pradesh in the past two years - all as suspects in different attacks. One of the protest organisers, Maulana Amir Rashadi, said Muslim youths were being falsely targeted as terrorists. The protesters arrived in Delhi carrying banners which said: "Let the truth prevail, bring the innocents out of jail" and "Give us security, not tears and blood". The BBC's Joana Jolly in Delhi says more than 2,000 people gathered at the protest at Jantar Mantar, a popular forum for demonstrations. *'Justice'* Amik Jamai, an activist and documentary film maker who joined the protest, said Muslims were feeling "uncomfortable". "The Muslims here are proud to be patriotic, they have promoted the concept of peace here, they live together in harmony," he told the BBC. "We are hoping for justice. We are hoping for transparency." In November, Human Rights Watch said police in the southern state of Andhra Pradesh should be prosecuted for torturing Muslims detained after bomb blasts last year. The group warned of the risks of stigmatising and alienating "an entire community". The state government had admitted that 21 men had been tortured and would each receive $600 in compensation. A series of blasts in May and August 2007 killed nearly 60 people in the state capital, Hyderabad. From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 20:42:56 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:12:56 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> Hi all. Thanks Pranesh for posting this invitation. I wonder how do the organizers define the term "accessibility". One section of the society that suffers from the lack of accessibility of the web and which has not been mentioned here is the visually challenged people. w3.org has certain guidelines for making web accessible to the blind but in India you are not legally bound to meet those guidelines. I wish the organizers do a thorrough research on this issue and address in the proposed workshop. Regards TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pranesh Prakash" To: "indiaegov" ; ; "ICT for Development Community" ; "Reader List" ; Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:34 AM Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility > Dear All, > Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers > on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The > workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who > are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop > aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC > and web developers from organisations from the private sector in > different parts of the country to come together and learn and share > basic concepts of web accessibility. There shall be thirty > participants in all. The call for participation is open now on a > first-come-first-served basis. There are no fees for participation. > Those interested may contact Nirmita Narasimhan, Programme Manager at > . > > About the organizers: The Centre for Internet and Society is a > Bangalore based non-profit, which brings together a team of > practitioners, theoreticians, researchers and artists to work on the > emerging field of Internet and Society to critically engage with > concerns of digital pluralism, public accountability and pedagogic > practices, with particular emphasis on South-South dialogues and > exchange. We focus on areas such as anonymity/privacy, censorship, > surveillance, free and open source software, open standards, open > access, family, sexual practices, addiction, intellectual property > rights, piracy, ICT4D, digital and participation divide and digital > communities and movements. Please visit our website at > to learn more about our work. > > Regards, > Pranesh > > -- > Pranesh Prakash > Programme Manager > Centre for Internet and Society > > T: +91 80 40926283 > W: http://www.cis-india.org > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 20:48:19 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:18:19 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! References: <98f331e00901290154v64abec4s17c014544055f97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0994FC890BB84655B43758B185CD93D1@tara> Unfortunately if one accepts this suggestion, one will have to boycott CPI (M) for saying "we paid them in the same coin" I wonder if it is not similar to some Modi's statements. ----- Original Message ----- From: "prakash ray" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:54 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! > No 'Pub Culture' to be allowed in Karnataka. > - Chief Minister, Karnataka. > > No 'North Indian' to be allowed in Mumbai. > - Raj Thakrey > > *Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.... **What should we do? > Run relief camps for them? Do we want to open baby-producing centers? Hum > paanch, humaare pachhees. (We five, our 25). > - Narendra Modi > * > Dear all, > > The progressive, democratic and secular sections are protesting against > the > fascists for many many years. The time has come to stop all kinds of > association with such gangs and people. There is no point in debating with > them on any issue or having any kind of engagement. The only solution is > that we must consolidate our solidarity and isolate these barbaric > elements. > Let us reach out to people at large. > > Prakash K Ray > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 21:19:25 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:49:25 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] India Muslims in 'torture' rally (???) References: <65be9bf40901290651p613e4e96ta0cb8b8ce74b2f7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1321D04245FE47B6A9B42C6B8ED7855F@tara> Dear Taha and all. It was interesting to hear people using communal slogans and talking of taking the fight to other parts of India. The Muslims throughout India are supposedly feeling uncomfortable, but the main slogan contained only a brief geographical area, (your suggestion to SP link is evident there) "Azam garh se dilli tak larai zari hai." It was nice to see secular participants endorsing "allah ho Akbar",if not chanting the slogan themselves. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: [Reader-list] India Muslims in 'torture' rally (???) > Dear all > > It seems that the nonsense is still on. Please read the BBC story below > for > more. Once again the ghost of the 'Indian Muslim' is called up to > articulate, a demonstration by 2000 people, who were basically from UP, > which is a Samajwadi Party base and one might argue that in the light of > up-coming general elections, any demonstration like this one works as a > good > PR exercise. > > The story has same-stereotyped images of Muslim male with beards, skull > caps > underlined by narrative of victimization and so on. This is, I think, one > more instance of irresponsible communal profiling by big media which must > provoke us to ask more questions like- Who is this mythical guy called > 'Indian Muslim'? What does one mean by this Maulana Risley's inventive > socio-religious category called 'Indian Muslim'? > > Please read this completely incoherent excerpt from the story- > > The group warned of the risks of stigmatising and alienating "an entire > community". > > Now could I ask what does the ' entire community' stands for or means? For > in my limited knowledge of the practise of Islam in India, the Bohars are > different Ahmadis who are different from Barelvies who are different from > Deobandis who are different from Wahabis who are different from Hanafis > and > so on. At the same time one could also assume them to be Indians who > happen > to follow one of the many interpretations of Islam, like it is there in > every religion. I wonder why did Joana Jolly or who ever it was at BBC > choose to frame a small demonstration at Jantar Mantar as 'Indian Mulims' > holding a 'Mass demontration'. Maybe by Oxford street standards it was > 'Mass' but it was certainly not the voice of 'Indian Muslims'. > > Regards > > Taha > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7857468.stm > > *Indian Muslims are holding a mass demonstration in the capital, Delhi, to > protest against alleged harassment of Muslims by security forces.* > > Most of them arrived in Delhi on Thursday morning in a special train. > > The train travelled from Azamgarh in northern Uttar Pradesh state and > picked > up more passengers en route to Delhi. > > The organisers are also seeking a meeting with the interior minister. > Indian > police have been blamed by the community for torturing Muslims. > > Security agencies, for example, have arrested 10 men from Azamgarh > district > in Uttar Pradesh in the past two years - all as suspects in different > attacks. > > One of the protest organisers, Maulana Amir Rashadi, said Muslim youths > were > being falsely targeted as terrorists. > > The protesters arrived in Delhi carrying banners which said: "Let the > truth > prevail, bring the innocents out of jail" and "Give us security, not tears > and blood". > > The BBC's Joana Jolly in Delhi says more than 2,000 people gathered at the > protest at Jantar Mantar, a popular forum for demonstrations. > > *'Justice'* > > Amik Jamai, an activist and documentary film maker who joined the protest, > said Muslims were feeling "uncomfortable". > > "The Muslims here are proud to be patriotic, they have promoted the > concept > of peace here, they live together in harmony," he told the BBC. > > "We are hoping for justice. We are hoping for transparency." > > In November, Human Rights Watch said police in the southern state of > Andhra > Pradesh should be prosecuted for torturing Muslims detained after bomb > blasts last year. > > The group warned of the risks of stigmatising and alienating "an entire > community". > > The state government had admitted that 21 men had been tortured and would > each receive $600 in compensation. > A series of blasts in May and August 2007 killed nearly 60 people in the > state capital, Hyderabad. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 21:27:20 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:57:20 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - SanghSangh ! References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rakesh. I believe there is no need to wonder about, it is clear that Congress is more hypocritcal. BJP has its Hindutva agenda clear and if they could manage to find some more support they would go with it ruthlessly like in Gujarat. A hypocritical by definition has to practise something other than what they preach. congress that claims to be a champion of secularism has propped up and supported communal parties for their political interest. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - SanghSangh ! > Dear all > > After reading this article, I am thinking who is the more hypocritic of > the > two: the BJP or the Congress. > > Let us be very clear about the nature of the parties. As my friend Aashish > (who is a member of this list as well) told me once, all parties in India > (the only exception in some sense for me here is the Left, at least > ideologically) are basically conservative. This is very much true, as I > shall point out. > > Gandhi, the Father of our Nation was infact conservative in certain sense, > especially if we look at it. He was absolutely conservative about the > creature called 'market', and must have been highly appalled at the nature > of consumerism which has grown in India and elsewhere in the world. Of > course, he was radical when we point out caste and non-violence as an > instrument of dissent, but I don't think he would have supported the 'pub > culture' which has grown in India, although he would never support > violence > against women. > > The Congress, born from the values Gandhi and Nehru gave, is essentially a > conservative organization. Infact, if I may add so, in order to pander to > fundamentalists or conservatists on both sides, has been their hallmark. > On > one hand, they passed the 'Muslim Personal Law' to ensure the Shah Bano > judgement was turned redundant; on the other they also allowed the locks > of > Ram Mandir to be opened. The end result is known to all. > > The BJP is of course conservative, as it grows from the RSS, which has a > particular code of life as based on Hindutva. Hence, they have problems > with > Valentines' Day, pubs and so on. Of course, Congress doesn't also like > them, > but yes they don't interfere with them as well, as long as it doesn't > cause > any problems. > > Infact, if the Congress must be criticized for being conservative, the BJP > in Gujarat must be criticized for not implementing the mantra of > 'prohibition' effectively in cities and urban areas. The reason is simple. > The Gujarati middle class is one of the strongest supporters of Modi and > BJP, and is also the major consumer of foreign branded alcohol. What's > more, > the investors coming in 'Vibrant Gujarat' since the last few years also > have > approved of their dissatisfaction with such prohibition. Infact, this was > one of the issues, which was raised by Congress (and of course it failed), > in the Assembly 2007 elections. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 21:33:26 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:03:26 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rakesh and all. As about Gandhi, I have no doubt he would not be satisfied at all with the way India has functioned after "independence". A poet munavvar Saiyadi has said something interesting: Gandhi badan ka naam naheen tha, usool tha, Gandhi ke har usool ko thukara diya gaya. Gandhi ka katl aam sabha mein naheen hua Gandhi ko katl lok Sabha mein kiya gaya. (Gandhi was not the name of a body, he was a principle. Every principle of Gandhi was rejected. Gandhi was not killed in a prayer service, Gandhi was murdered in the loksabha (by our parliamentarians) Regards TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - SanghSangh ! > Dear all > > After reading this article, I am thinking who is the more hypocritic of > the > two: the BJP or the Congress. > > Let us be very clear about the nature of the parties. As my friend Aashish > (who is a member of this list as well) told me once, all parties in India > (the only exception in some sense for me here is the Left, at least > ideologically) are basically conservative. This is very much true, as I > shall point out. > > Gandhi, the Father of our Nation was infact conservative in certain sense, > especially if we look at it. He was absolutely conservative about the > creature called 'market', and must have been highly appalled at the nature > of consumerism which has grown in India and elsewhere in the world. Of > course, he was radical when we point out caste and non-violence as an > instrument of dissent, but I don't think he would have supported the 'pub > culture' which has grown in India, although he would never support > violence > against women. > > The Congress, born from the values Gandhi and Nehru gave, is essentially a > conservative organization. Infact, if I may add so, in order to pander to > fundamentalists or conservatists on both sides, has been their hallmark. > On > one hand, they passed the 'Muslim Personal Law' to ensure the Shah Bano > judgement was turned redundant; on the other they also allowed the locks > of > Ram Mandir to be opened. The end result is known to all. > > The BJP is of course conservative, as it grows from the RSS, which has a > particular code of life as based on Hindutva. Hence, they have problems > with > Valentines' Day, pubs and so on. Of course, Congress doesn't also like > them, > but yes they don't interfere with them as well, as long as it doesn't > cause > any problems. > > Infact, if the Congress must be criticized for being conservative, the BJP > in Gujarat must be criticized for not implementing the mantra of > 'prohibition' effectively in cities and urban areas. The reason is simple. > The Gujarati middle class is one of the strongest supporters of Modi and > BJP, and is also the major consumer of foreign branded alcohol. What's > more, > the investors coming in 'Vibrant Gujarat' since the last few years also > have > approved of their dissatisfaction with such prohibition. Infact, this was > one of the issues, which was raised by Congress (and of course it failed), > in the Assembly 2007 elections. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From itsnishant at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 21:58:31 2009 From: itsnishant at gmail.com (Nishant Shah) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:28:31 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility In-Reply-To: <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> Message-ID: Hi TaraPrakash, Thank you for the response. I am sure Pranesh will have much to say about the notions of accessibility, that the workshop is aimed at. In the meantime, we, at the Centre for Internet and Society, do value interest in questions of disability and access. We have, in fact, made visual disability and access as one of our flagship in house research project and this workshop is indeed going to focus on it quite extensively. I am offering you some links about the work that we have started, and would hope that more researchers might be interested in coming up with concerns, questions and perhaps solutions to the many abilities that we take for granted when talking about the internet and its usage. http://cis-india.org/search?SearchableText=Accessibility This particular link gives you a list of all the activities we have been doing in the field of visual disability and accessibility in the last eight months since we started our work. You might also find it of interest to perhaps get in touch with Nirmita Narsimhan (nirmita at cis-india.org), our in-house research manager who is working and networking quite extensively on this project, and is indeed one of the chief coordinators for this workshop. Thank you, again, for your valuable feedback and interest. We shall hope that you will be attending the workshop, in Delhi, warm regards Nishant On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:12 PM, taraprakash wrote: > Hi all. Thanks Pranesh for posting this invitation. I wonder how do the > organizers define the term "accessibility". One section of the society that > suffers from the lack of accessibility of the web and which has not been > mentioned here is the visually challenged people. > w3.org has certain guidelines for making web accessible to the blind but > in > India you are not legally bound to meet those guidelines. I wish the > organizers do a thorrough research on this issue and address in the > proposed > workshop. > > Regards > TaraPrakash > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pranesh Prakash" > To: "indiaegov" ; ; "ICT > for > Development Community" ; "Reader List" > ; > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:34 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility > > > > Dear All, > > Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers > > on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The > > workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who > > are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop > > aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC > > and web developers from organisations from the private sector in > > different parts of the country to come together and learn and share > > basic concepts of web accessibility. There shall be thirty > > participants in all. The call for participation is open now on a > > first-come-first-served basis. There are no fees for participation. > > Those interested may contact Nirmita Narasimhan, Programme Manager at > > . > > > > About the organizers: The Centre for Internet and Society is a > > Bangalore based non-profit, which brings together a team of > > practitioners, theoreticians, researchers and artists to work on the > > emerging field of Internet and Society to critically engage with > > concerns of digital pluralism, public accountability and pedagogic > > practices, with particular emphasis on South-South dialogues and > > exchange. We focus on areas such as anonymity/privacy, censorship, > > surveillance, free and open source software, open standards, open > > access, family, sexual practices, addiction, intellectual property > > rights, piracy, ICT4D, digital and participation divide and digital > > communities and movements. Please visit our website at > > to learn more about our work. > > > > Regards, > > Pranesh > > > > -- > > Pranesh Prakash > > Programme Manager > > Centre for Internet and Society > > > > T: +91 80 40926283 > > W: http://www.cis-india.org > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Nishant Shah Doctoral Candidate, CSCS, Bangalore. Director (Research), Centre for Internet and Society,( www.cis-india.org ) Asia Awards Fellow, 2008-09 # 00-86-21-66130376 From gora at sarai.net Thu Jan 29 22:20:09 2009 From: gora at sarai.net (Gora Mohanty) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:20:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility In-Reply-To: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090129222009.50390b20@mail.sarai.net> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:04:23 +0530 Pranesh Prakash wrote: > Dear All, > Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers > on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The > workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who > are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop > aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC > and web developers from organisations from the private sector [...] Could you provide us with more details here? Who are these trainer, what are their qualifications, etc. I hate to seem negative about people making at least a real effort at bringing about change, but in my opinion, talk about accessibility is a joke when many sites in India whether in the government, or in the private sector, cannot even handle basic standards, and Indian languages correctly. A poor start at identifying such offenders is at http://wiki.linux-delhi.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/HallOfShame Regards, Gora From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 23:38:31 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:38:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear TaraPrakash (and all) I agree with Gandhi laying some principles. However the fact that he himself was principled or not, is something I can't say surely. One of the reasons for this is that I have read from an article in Tehelka, where it's said that Gandhi didn't support the struggle by the workers against the Birlas (their employers), as Gandhi had taken economic support from them. He also mentions that it took a lot of money to keep Gandhi poor. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Op310109misleading_gandhigiri.asp The above is the link of the article in Tehelka. By the way, it was posted on this very reader list, in an earlier mail. And I mention this with respect to the first line of the poem written in honour of Gandhi, telling him to be an 'usool' or principle. In other words, he is considered according to me as a man who completely followed his principles. Please let me make it clear once again. I am not saying he is principled or unprincipled man, I just say I am not sure. Please do clear this point and this particular incident, if you can. I would be thankful for that. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 23:50:58 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:50:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ''Shiela Dikshit - Pramod Muthalik'' - SanghSangh ! In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear TaraPrakash (and all) Well the BJP is also hypocritical on many accounts as well. And therefore, the question is not as easy as it seems. For one, the BJP says it opposes Valentine's Day. However, since the middle class supports it in many states in large numbers, it by and large doesn't try and stop it's celebration, especially in the evenings. Infact, in an article in Hindustan times, if I am not wrong, I read that youngsters celebrated that day peacefully even during day time in Ahmedabad in 2007 (election year), though it was just mentioned as passing in the last few lines in an article. Now I hope somebody can clarify that. And as more and more middle class voters support BJP, they would expect them to take a lenient stand against Valentine's day and other pubs and all, otherwise the Congress may turn out to be the beneficiary. Then again, the BJP is accusing Congress of being conservative without itself especially espousing its' own cause. I have no objection of BJP calling Congress 'conservative', but why not accept in first place that it itself a 'conservative' party whole-heartedly? Also, the Sangh Parivar believes in 'Swadeshi' model of economics, but the BJP is a free market party. How come this goes on is anybody's guess. Yes, the Congress is also a major hypocrite. To turn itself from a forum where all voices could be heard, to a secular party (when it is not so even now, as Antulay's statement had proved) is definitely an act to prove oneself a hypocrite. And then to brand BJP only as communal, is bigger hypocrisy. But who is the bigger one, is still a tough guess. Regards Rakesh From vashsand at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 00:12:22 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:42:22 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood Message-ID: Sorry for name, such things happen after few beers, and i dont know what has happened to that link. the link was about pub incident in manglore, anyway my point is do u find "grey" in organizations like bajrang dal, sri ram sena etc like u tried to explore i dont know why and how with lashkar. And do u seriously think NSDAP/Bolsheviks had their greys and it was mistake of democrats not exploring it ? lets see this one works http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7852837.stm The leader of a right-wing group is among a number of new arrests that have followed an assault on women drinking in a bar in the city of Mangalore. Pramod Mutalik heads the little known local group called the Sri Ram Sena (Army of Lord Ram) in the southern state of Karnataka. Public and media outrage over the attack is growing and almost 30 people have been arrested so far. Mr Mutalik says it is "not acceptable" for women to go to bars in India. Speaking prior to his arrest, he said: "What my men did was right. The media is using this small incident to malign the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) government in the state." For the past two days, he has argued that Saturday's assault on the women was justifiable because his men were preserving Indian culture and moral values. It is thought Mr Mutalik was held in connection with an earlier complaint of inciting disharmony. The BBC's Sanjoy Majumder in Delhi says the attack - which was filmed and then broadcast on national television - has shocked many Indians. Television pictures showed the men chasing and beating up the panicking women - some wearing skirts. Some of the women, who tripped and fell, were kicked by the men. Women's groups have strongly condemned the attack which has been described by the country's Women's Minister Renuka Chaudhury as an attempt to impose Taleban-style values. Karnataka's BJP government has distanced itself from the attack. It said that it had nothing to do with Sri Ram Sena. But our correspondent says that right-wing Hindu vigilante groups loosely linked to the BJP are active in many parts of India and have in the past targeted Muslim and Christian minorities as well as events such as Valentine's Day celebrations. Outrage The Indian Express newspaper said such attacks "further encourage a latent puritanism, the kind that is deeply threatened by modernity and dark subversions like women enjoying alcohol". The Hindustan Times newspaper, in an editorial, described the attackers as "thugs, not custodians". "We have seen a rash of self-appointed moral guardians telling people what art is 'acceptable' and what they should wear or read. Such proscriptions have no place in a diverse democracy like ours," the newspaper wrote. "The Sri Ram Sena goons... should be made an example of to deter future self-righteous busybodies who give Ram and India a bad name." _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From pkray11 at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 02:05:14 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:05:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! Message-ID: <98f331e00901291235g3f8eb6f0tbd438b47a343b118@mail.gmail.com> Dear Tara, If you think CPI(M) is a fascist organization, boycott it too. It is time for all peace-loving people to take a stand against the fascists: No tolerance! Just Boycott!! Prakash K Ray From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 30 03:42:55 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:12:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sandeep Thank you for your mail. I am sorry but I do not think that I have necessary conceptual grasp to say any thing of significance in so far as the conduct of contemporary political organizations like Lashkar, Bajrang Dal or RSS or Sri Ram Sena or for that matter defunct political organizations like NASDAP or Bolsheviks is concerned. I can only say that I do not in any way, none what so ever, ascribe or subscribe to their political views. I think these people are not responsible politicians, for in each and every case, they believe in the good of a few people rather than whole of the country. The reason I was involved with the issue of Lashkar and its renaming as JUD was because I am interested in the idea of -identity-. And through this instance of renaming I wanted to explore whether re-naming influences the imagination of a self or not. As far as the recent Mangalore incident is concerned. I think what has happened is terrible. One can only hope that due process of law is followed in not only bringing to the book all those people who committed this rather disgusting crime but also making sure that they get due punishment. We are still getting news on Pramod Mutalik and his open admiration of Sadhvi Pragya Devi and his exhilaration on her role in Malegaon blasts, but there are many things that we do not know about him or his political activities. Hence I do not think that one can say much about him or his political organization at this point of time. However, if you feel that this story must be or could be read in some other fashion, then I think you should please share your interpretation with us on the reader list. It would be indeed nice to read an analysis that either goes against an interpretation which is manufactured by the media or builds upon it, in such a way that it produces new insight on Sri Ram Sena and Mutalik. Warm regards Taha From vivek at sarai.net Fri Jan 30 08:06:46 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:06:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Almost Island Conference between Indian and Chinese Writers Message-ID: <498267BE.3090309@sarai.net> Hi all, This year's Almost Island Dialogues has public readings in the evening that are free to all, and morning discussions where we ask for a registration fee of Rs. 500 (350 for students) that helps us to cover the costs and includes lunch on all three days. If you'd like to come to those morning sessions, do write to Ashwini Bhat. (See below) Thanks Vivek ALMOST ISLAND DIALOGUES: THREE INDIA-CHINA At the India International Centre, New Delhi Feb 12-15, 2009 Almost Island is a web journal for international literature, (www.almostisland.com), edited by fiction writer Sharmistha Mohanty, with the poet Vivek Narayanan as consulting editor. Each year, we also organize a dialogue between writers from India and abroad. This year the dialogues are between India and China, and a group of writers from China will be coming to New Delhi from Feb. 12th-15th. The Chinese writers will be led by the Chinese poet in exile and several times Nobel nominee, Bei Dao, one of China's foremost poets, and will include Xi Chuan (poet), Ge Fei (fiction), Zhai Yongming (poet), Li Tuo (critic), and Ouyang Jianghe (poet). These are writers associated with Jintian (Today), a journal begun by Bei Dao and some other poets of his generation in 1978. The Indian writers will be Kunwar Narain, K. Satchidanandan, Vinod Kumar Shukla, Rukmini Bhaya Nair, Irwin Allan Sealy, Joy Goswami, Sharmistha Mohanty, Vivek Narayanan, and Ashis Nandy. Past participants in these two conferences have been, George Szirtes, winner of the T.S. Eliot Prize, Nobel nominee Claudio Magris and poet Arvind Krishna Mehrotra, among others. There are discussions in the day to which a handpicked audience is invited. The audience is sent some work by the writers beforehand. In the evenings there are public readings. These are small conferences, held over three days, at Delhi's India International Centre, where an enquiry happens into fundamental questions in literature. Almost Island does not seek to do a literary "festival", but rather something much more intimate and rigorous. The emphasis is on dialogue between writers, and an interface with a serious, interested public, where numbers are not the determining factor. MORNING DISCUSSIONS There will be three closed-door discussions, on the mornings of Feb. 13, 14, and 15th. For these three morning discussions, there is a combined registration fee of Rs. 500, (Rs. 350 for students) that covers all three days, and includes lunch at the IIC after the discussions. Once you have confirmed your participation in the morning sessions, we will e-mail you the subject of the discussions, some writing by the Chinese writers, and those Indian writers whose work may not be widely available. Please contact Almost Island Editorial Assistant Ashwini Bhat at ashwinibhat00 at yahoo.co.in in order to register. PUBLIC READINGS The public readings are free and open to all. Thursday, Feb. 12th: 6.30pm. India International Centre, Conference Room II Xi Chuan (poet), Rukmini Bhaya Nair (poet), Zhai Yongming (poet), Kunwar Narain (poet) Friday, Feb.13th: 6.30pm. India International Centre: Annexe: Lecture Hall Vivek Narayanan (poet), Ge Fei (fiction), K. Satchidanandan (poet) Saturday, Feb.14th: 6.30pm. India International Centre: Annexe: Lecture Hall Ouyang Jianghe (poet), Sharmistha Mohanty (fiction), Irwin Allan Sealy (fiction) Sunday, Feb.15th: 6.30pm. India International Centre, Conference Room II Joy Goswami (poet), Vinod Kumar Shukla (poet), Bei Dao (poet) All work will be read in the original and in English translation. These readings are open to all. If you have any queries please contact : Ashwini Bhat, Editorial Assistant for Almost Island at: ashwinibhat00 at yahoo.co.in From vivek at sarai.net Fri Jan 30 08:59:48 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:59:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 51 Remixed Versions of the Inaugural Poem Message-ID: <4982742C.5020203@sarai.net> Unfair? Missing the point? Certainly, probably. But certainly in keeping with Alexander's own take that the inaugural poem should not be about her or Obama but about democracy. And with the wide availability and popularity of recordings, it certainly helps to inaugurate new formal possibilities for poetry: http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/01/50_remixed_versions_of_the_ina.html From pranesh at cis-india.org Fri Jan 30 09:21:31 2009 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:21:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility In-Reply-To: <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> Message-ID: <4785f1e20901291951x491e22a1t7bc641c58daa92d3@mail.gmail.com> Dear taraprakash, On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:42, taraprakash wrote: > Hi all. Thanks Pranesh for posting this invitation. I wonder how do the > organizers define the term "accessibility". One section of the society that > suffers from the lack of accessibility of the web and which has not been > mentioned here is the visually challenged people. Print challenged people are most definitely amongst those whose "accessibility" requirements we wish to address. "Accessibility involves a wide range of disabilities, including visual, auditory, physical, speech, cognitive, language, learning, and neurological disabilities." - WCAG 2.0, Introduction. India has more than 15 million blind people, and a larger number still of people who are print challenged. Included amongst the trainers are people (Krishnakant Mane of TIFR, for instance) who work on development of screen readers (he develops Orca, a free/open source screen reader for the GNOME desktop environment) which visually challenged people use. So, they definitely are a section of society for whom we hope to make the web more accessible. > w3.org has certain guidelines for making web accessible to the blind but in > India you are not legally bound to meet those guidelines. I wish the > organizers do a thorrough research on this issue and address in the proposed > workshop. WCAG 2.0 (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0), which is mentioned in the mail, are the guidelines that W3C has come out with. No country, to the best of my knowledge, mandates them legally. In various countries, there are separate legal requirements which provide for electronic accessibility (in the U.S., for instance, Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act requires that federal agencies' electronic and information technology is accessible to people with disabilities, and moves are afoot to incorporate the changes in WCAG 2.0 into the requirements of that section). In India, we are trying to push for governmental and other government-funded websites to be mandated to follow them. This workshop is a first step in that direction, hoping to create awareness about accessibility issues (and ways of addressing them) amongst web developers. I hope Nishant's post and this response clarify things a bit. Regards, Pranesh > Regards > TaraPrakash > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pranesh Prakash" > To: "indiaegov" ; ; "ICT for > Development Community" ; "Reader List" > ; > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:34 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility > > >> Dear All, >> Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers >> on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The >> workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who >> are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop >> aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC >> and web developers from organisations from the private sector in >> different parts of the country to come together and learn and share >> basic concepts of web accessibility. There shall be thirty >> participants in all. The call for participation is open now on a >> first-come-first-served basis. There are no fees for participation. >> Those interested may contact Nirmita Narasimhan, Programme Manager at >> . >> >> About the organizers: The Centre for Internet and Society is a >> Bangalore based non-profit, which brings together a team of >> practitioners, theoreticians, researchers and artists to work on the >> emerging field of Internet and Society to critically engage with >> concerns of digital pluralism, public accountability and pedagogic >> practices, with particular emphasis on South-South dialogues and >> exchange. We focus on areas such as anonymity/privacy, censorship, >> surveillance, free and open source software, open standards, open >> access, family, sexual practices, addiction, intellectual property >> rights, piracy, ICT4D, digital and participation divide and digital >> communities and movements. Please visit our website at >> to learn more about our work. >> >> Regards, >> Pranesh >> >> -- >> Pranesh Prakash >> Programme Manager >> Centre for Internet and Society >> >> T: +91 80 40926283 >> W: http://www.cis-india.org >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 09:19:00 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:49:00 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! References: <98f331e00901291235g3f8eb6f0tbd438b47a343b118@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am not sure if you are asking for too much or too little. If it is up to me to decide who to boycott, wasn't I already doing it? People have been boycotting organizations on their preferences, calling them fascist or some other similar names, to justify the rejection. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "prakash ray" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Boycott Fascists!! > Dear Tara, > > If you think CPI(M) is a fascist organization, boycott it too. It is time > for all peace-loving people to take a stand against the fascists: No > tolerance! Just Boycott!! > > > Prakash K Ray > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 09:28:27 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:28:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Malegaon's just a trailer: Muthalik Message-ID: Time for blasts, Malegaon's just a trailer: Muthalik 30 Jan 2009, 0617 hrs IST, TNN BANGALORE: Rashtriya Hindu Sena chief Pramod Muthalik, now facing the heat for his support to the January 24 Mangalore pub attack, openly advocates militancy and calls the Malegaon blasts a 'trailer'. Shortly after Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur was named in the Malegaon blasts case, Muthalik called her a 'revolutionary' and an 'ideal' for others to follow. Muthalik's speech approving the Malegaon attack was aired by Times Now on Thursday. Supporting Sadhvi Pragya, Muthalik said: "One should not give her the tag of a terrorist. If anyone is doing so, the message of revolution in this country will be lost. Terrorism is the activity of traitors. If Sadhvi is among those involved, she is a revolutionary and an ideal for all of us. If you are calling all of them terrorists, then revolutionaries like Kittur Chennamma, Jhansi Rani and Bhagat Singh are terrorists too." On January 17, 2008, while addressing a rally in Udupi, Muthalik said: "It's time for blasts. Malegaon is just a trailer. Every house should have a person like Pragya Singh. Every housewife will carry bombs now.'' The key accused in the Malegaon blast case, Lt Col Prasad Purohit, has said he knew Muthalik and was impressed by his work and 'dedication'. Purohit's disclosure is documented in the Malegaon blasts chargesheet. The lieutenant colonel is presently in the custody of Maharashtra's Anti- Terrorism Squad. He is accused of having aided, abetted and conspired to commit criminal activities. From pranesh at cis-india.org Fri Jan 30 10:22:59 2009 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:22:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility In-Reply-To: <20090129222009.50390b20@mail.sarai.net> References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> <20090129222009.50390b20@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <4785f1e20901292052p5b225b41m76007f4603cc1365@mail.gmail.com> Dear Gora, On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 22:20, Gora Mohanty wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:04:23 +0530 > Pranesh Prakash wrote: > >> Dear All, >> Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers >> on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The >> workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who >> are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop >> aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC >> and web developers from organisations from the private sector > [...] > > Could you provide us with more details here? Who are these > trainer, what are their qualifications, etc. These are the trainers: * Mr. Dipendra Manocha (Developing Countries Coordinator with the DAISY Consortium, and President of DAISY Forum of India) * Mr. Prashant Ranjan Verma (Manager DU-NTPC Foundation ICT Training Centre, formerly head of NAB's Technology Training Center, Digital Library & Braille Press, and awardee of Nat'l Award for Empowerment of Persons with Disabilities 2007) * Mr. Manish Agrawal (Technology Manager, Sapient Corporation) * Mr. Pranav Lal (Accessibility Technology Consultant ) * Mr. Krishnakant Mane (Accessibility Specialist and Free Software Advocate, Project Fellow of Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education at TIFR on the SELF portal, and Chief Resource person for the Insight project) * Ms. Anusha Kadambala (Structured Accessibility Design specialist, resource person for the Insight project, and the True Vision project in ELCOT). * Mr. Rahul Gonsalves (Accessibility Evangelist and Web Designer, and ) > I hate to seem negative about people making at least a real > effort at bringing about change, but in my opinion, talk about > accessibility is a joke when many sites in India whether in > the government, or in the private sector, cannot even handle > basic standards, and Indian languages correctly. A poor start > at identifying such offenders is at > http://wiki.linux-delhi.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/HallOfShame I'm glad that you're skeptical. However, much of the problems with web standards and web accessibility standards are actually not too disparate. If open standards are properly used in the development of web content, then many accessibility issues will also go away. Proper usage of CSS and ALT-tags, for instance, are part of both web standards and web accessibility standards. Many things that are part of accessibility standards seem to be just plain common sense. Well, there's that old cliche about how uncommon such a thing is. Following web accessibility standards improves usability for people without disabilities too. Older people, people with lower fluency with languages, people with lower bandwidth, people who are new to the web -- all these people also benefit greatly. So, web standards and web accessibility standards aren't that very disjunct by nature. > Regards, > Gora Regards, Pranesh From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 11:22:18 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:52:18 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com><20090129222009.50390b20@mail.sarai.net> <4785f1e20901292052p5b225b41m76007f4603cc1365@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Pranesh for this list of the trainers. I know half of them and they have lot of knowledge and experience of accessibility related issues, arising out of visual disability. I think that addresses my concern. But as I said in my previous mail on this thread, it is always useful for the target audience if you could define in what sense you are using the term "disability". Gora and many others will take it to mean accessibility based on language. There can be other issues like gender, social and economic status etc that make web not accessible to many. Thanks TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pranesh Prakash" To: "Gora Mohanty" Cc: "indiaegov" ; "ICT for Development Community" ; "Reader List" ; ; Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility > Dear Gora, > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 22:20, Gora Mohanty wrote: >> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:04:23 +0530 >> Pranesh Prakash wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers >>> on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The >>> workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who >>> are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop >>> aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC >>> and web developers from organisations from the private sector >> [...] >> >> Could you provide us with more details here? Who are these >> trainer, what are their qualifications, etc. > > These are the trainers: > * Mr. Dipendra Manocha (Developing Countries Coordinator with the > DAISY Consortium, and President of DAISY Forum of India) > * Mr. Prashant Ranjan Verma (Manager DU-NTPC Foundation ICT Training > Centre, formerly head of NAB's Technology Training Center, Digital > Library & Braille Press, and awardee of Nat'l Award for Empowerment of > Persons with Disabilities 2007) > * Mr. Manish Agrawal (Technology Manager, Sapient Corporation) > * Mr. Pranav Lal (Accessibility Technology Consultant > ) > * Mr. Krishnakant Mane (Accessibility Specialist and Free Software > Advocate, Project Fellow of Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education > at TIFR on the SELF portal, and Chief Resource person for the Insight > project) > * Ms. Anusha Kadambala (Structured Accessibility Design specialist, > resource person for the Insight project, and the True Vision project > in ELCOT). > * Mr. Rahul Gonsalves (Accessibility Evangelist and Web Designer, > and > ) > >> I hate to seem negative about people making at least a real >> effort at bringing about change, but in my opinion, talk about >> accessibility is a joke when many sites in India whether in >> the government, or in the private sector, cannot even handle >> basic standards, and Indian languages correctly. A poor start >> at identifying such offenders is at >> http://wiki.linux-delhi.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/HallOfShame > > I'm glad that you're skeptical. However, much of the problems with > web standards and web accessibility standards are actually not too > disparate. If open standards are properly used in the development of > web content, then many accessibility issues will also go away. Proper > usage of CSS and ALT-tags, for instance, are part of both web > standards and web accessibility standards. Many things that are part > of accessibility standards seem to be just plain common sense. Well, > there's that old cliche about how uncommon such a thing is. Following > web accessibility standards improves usability for people without > disabilities too. Older people, people with lower fluency with > languages, people with lower bandwidth, people who are new to the web > -- all these people also benefit greatly. So, web standards and web > accessibility standards aren't that very disjunct by nature. > >> Regards, >> Gora > > Regards, > Pranesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From saheliwomen at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 11:38:53 2009 From: saheliwomen at gmail.com (Saheli Women) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:38:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Human rights violations in Sri Lanka and the violent curbing of the freedom of press In-Reply-To: <12d068e70901292000p61ef8bf3i50ebc3924405d9f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d068e70901292000p61ef8bf3i50ebc3924405d9f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12d068e70901292208v21aa0a8dv7941afc8ef71e120@mail.gmail.com> Please endorse the statement below by Saturday, 31st January (noon) and also join us for the protest at Jantar Mantar on 31st January at 5.30 pm. Please forward this information to others who may be interested. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ponni arasu Date: Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM Subject: [VA377] Protest against Human rights violations in Sri Lanka and the violent curbing of the freedom of press To: ponni arasu *Protest against Human rights violations in Sri Lanka and the violent curbing of the freedom of press* Following the brutal attacks and murders of media persons in Sri Lanka in the past fortnight alone, there have been a number of protests in Sri Lanka and around the world. This protest is to come together in solidarity with the people of Sri Lanka to raise our voices against the violation of Human Rights in Sri Lanka and the brutal curbing of the freedom of press. This is to protest the violence meted out by state and non-state actors on the people of Sri Lanka. It is an attempt to assert that we stand for the dignity, respect and rights of all people, at all times, across the world. *Please endorse the statement below and join us for the protest with placards, slogans, songs and candles. * * **Time:* 5:30 PM *Venue: *Jantar Mantar, New Delhi *Date:* Saturday, 31st January, 2009. Please come and spread the word. *Sri Lanka - War next door. Violations of human rights. Curbing of all freedoms including that of expression.** * Next door to the world's largest democracy is a small island of a population of 20 million with people of different religions, ethnicities and castes. This little island; Sri Lanka has been torn apart by war for the past 25 years and more. A group of rebels representing the minority Tamil population of the country began fighting for the rights of this community in 1983. These rebels went on to set up state-like mechanisms in certain parts of the country- namely the north and the east. They antagonised many persons including progressive thinkers among the Tamils who argued for civil methods of asserting the rights of the community as well as the Tamil speaking Muslims, who have now come to be understood as a different 'ethnic' community in the country. Their representation of the Tamil people has come into question over the years while Sri Lanka saw a series of regressive governments. The present government epitomises the fascist tendencies among some parts of the majority Sinhala community. The government did not take forward the peace processes, however abysmal they may be, initiated by the earlier governments. Instead they have been on a complete and unabashed military offensive. This offensive is being launched in the name of protecting the country and the interests of the people. The number of civilian deaths in the process are unaccounted for and the interests being protected seems to include only regressive Sinhala fascist values which seeks to quell the diversity and vibrance of Sri Lankan society. This government has spent all its energy (and money) on this war leaving all else in the fray. The economy has suffered as have the everyday lives of people in a way not seen before. To continue and justify a war, we know from history, that many facts and truths have to be covered up. The present government has categorically doused out many voices of dissent both Sinhala and Tamil and continues to do so. Attacks on freedom of press and expression have a long history in Sri Lanka. The recent deaths of journalists, who had the courage to expose the truths about this war, are only another moment in that unfortunate history. The Indian government's reaction to this war has been harmful at worst or meaningless at best. There are a number of other political reactions in India which are sectarian in nature which take the side of the Liberation Tigers of the Tamil Eelam (LTTE) or the Sri Lankan Government, entirely forgetting that the interests of the people of this small island are not being met by either parties. As progressive individuals who believe in the values of freedom, dignity, respect and rights, it is imperative that we raise our voice against the complete disregard for the lives of innocent citizens and the brutal curbing of the freedom of expression. If we do not raise our voices now, we will be next door to ruthless fascist dictatorship that we would have to tolerate at best or contend at worst. Let us come together to say no to the violation of human rights of the people of Sri lanka and the brutal killing of those who seek to tell the truth. * * *Let us raise our voices in solidarity with the people of Sri Lanka.* Hiren Gandhi Dr. Saroop Dhruv Shalini Krishnan Vineeta Bal Anja Kovacs Priya Thangarajah Sophie Murphy Lesley Esteves Akshara Ravishankar Anusha Chandrasekhar Gautam Bhan Deepti Sharma Ponni Arasu Janaki Abraham Siddharth Singh Hannah Jayapriya Anne Philpott Jagori Tanuja Yalini Marian Thambinayagam Saheli Sunil Gupta Ratna Appnender Pramada Menon Bhavani Fonseka Dunu Roy Pratiksha Baxi Other Media From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 11:50:11 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:20:11 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A9B22BE6978448286A022AF01C3A118@tara> Hi all and Rakesh. Thanks for posting this link. I am not planning to read this article right now due to time constraint. But yes, a lot of people have written a lot about gandhi, the man. What perhaps I should have said is that Gandhi is important to us not because of his body but because of the principles he preached. If you smoke and tell someone else not to, your message doesn't lose its significance as long as you yourself have known the dangers of smoking. Yes, I thinkGandhi, the man, was an opportunist, selfish and what not, but these are not things he is known for in the world. That is why the poet I quoted focuses not on Gandhi, the man, but Gandhi the principle. Regards TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: taraprakash Cc: Aditya Raj Kaul ; sarai list Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Gandhi Dear TaraPrakash (and all) I agree with Gandhi laying some principles. However the fact that he himself was principled or not, is something I can't say surely. One of the reasons for this is that I have read from an article in Tehelka, where it's said that Gandhi didn't support the struggle by the workers against the Birlas (their employers), as Gandhi had taken economic support from them. He also mentions that it took a lot of money to keep Gandhi poor. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Op310109misleading_gandhigiri.asp The above is the link of the article in Tehelka. By the way, it was posted on this very reader list, in an earlier mail. And I mention this with respect to the first line of the poem written in honour of Gandhi, telling him to be an 'usool' or principle. In other words, he is considered according to me as a man who completely followed his principles. Please let me make it clear once again. I am not saying he is principled or unprincipled man, I just say I am not sure. Please do clear this point and this particular incident, if you can. I would be thankful for that. Regards Rakesh From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 11:57:52 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> <4785f1e20901291951x491e22a1t7bc641c58daa92d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <309D977748D84107BA611B30AA76A9B0@tara> Thanks Pranesh. I would just like to clarify that the corporate and government are legally bound to ensure accessibility in the US. The court has ruled in favor of huge compensation ($6 million) to those who suffered from inaccessible website of the Target. www.articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/28/business/fi-blind28 Regards TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pranesh Prakash" To: "taraprakash" Cc: "indiaegov" ; ; "ICT for Development Community" ; "Reader List" ; ; "Nirmita Narasimhan" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility > Dear taraprakash, > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 20:42, taraprakash wrote: >> Hi all. Thanks Pranesh for posting this invitation. I wonder how do the >> organizers define the term "accessibility". One section of the society >> that >> suffers from the lack of accessibility of the web and which has not been >> mentioned here is the visually challenged people. > > Print challenged people are most definitely amongst those whose > "accessibility" requirements we wish to address. "Accessibility > involves a wide range of disabilities, including visual, auditory, > physical, speech, cognitive, language, learning, and neurological > disabilities." - WCAG 2.0, Introduction. India has more than 15 > million blind people, and a larger number still of people who are > print challenged. Included amongst the trainers are people > (Krishnakant Mane of TIFR, for instance) who work on development of > screen readers (he develops Orca, a free/open source screen reader for > the GNOME desktop environment) which visually challenged people use. > So, they definitely are a section of society for whom we hope to make > the web more accessible. > >> w3.org has certain guidelines for making web accessible to the blind but >> in >> India you are not legally bound to meet those guidelines. I wish the >> organizers do a thorrough research on this issue and address in the >> proposed >> workshop. > > WCAG 2.0 (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0), which is > mentioned in the mail, are the guidelines that W3C has come out with. > No country, to the best of my knowledge, mandates them legally. In > various countries, there are separate legal requirements which provide > for electronic accessibility (in the U.S., for instance, Section 508 > of the Rehabilitation Act requires that federal agencies' electronic > and information technology is accessible to people with disabilities, > and moves are afoot to incorporate the changes in WCAG 2.0 into the > requirements of that section). > > In India, we are trying to push for governmental and other > government-funded websites to be mandated to follow them. This > workshop is a first step in that direction, hoping to create awareness > about accessibility issues (and ways of addressing them) amongst web > developers. > > I hope Nishant's post and this response clarify things a bit. > > Regards, > Pranesh > >> Regards >> TaraPrakash >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pranesh Prakash" >> >> To: "indiaegov" ; ; "ICT >> for >> Development Community" ; "Reader >> List" >> ; >> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:34 AM >> Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility >> >> >>> Dear All, >>> Greetings from CIS. We are organising a "Workshop for Web Developers >>> on Web Accessibility" in New Delhi from February 16th-18th, 2009. The >>> workshop will have seven trainers from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore who >>> are experienced in web accessibility issues and WCAG 2.0. The workshop >>> aims to bring together participants from government departments, NIC >>> and web developers from organisations from the private sector in >>> different parts of the country to come together and learn and share >>> basic concepts of web accessibility. There shall be thirty >>> participants in all. The call for participation is open now on a >>> first-come-first-served basis. There are no fees for participation. >>> Those interested may contact Nirmita Narasimhan, Programme Manager at >>> . >>> >>> About the organizers: The Centre for Internet and Society is a >>> Bangalore based non-profit, which brings together a team of >>> practitioners, theoreticians, researchers and artists to work on the >>> emerging field of Internet and Society to critically engage with >>> concerns of digital pluralism, public accountability and pedagogic >>> practices, with particular emphasis on South-South dialogues and >>> exchange. We focus on areas such as anonymity/privacy, censorship, >>> surveillance, free and open source software, open standards, open >>> access, family, sexual practices, addiction, intellectual property >>> rights, piracy, ICT4D, digital and participation divide and digital >>> communities and movements. Please visit our website at >>> to learn more about our work. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Pranesh >>> >>> -- >>> Pranesh Prakash >>> Programme Manager >>> Centre for Internet and Society >>> >>> T: +91 80 40926283 >>> W: http://www.cis-india.org >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> From gora at sarai.net Fri Jan 30 11:58:50 2009 From: gora at sarai.net (Gora Mohanty) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:58:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS Workshop on Web Accessibility In-Reply-To: <309D977748D84107BA611B30AA76A9B0@tara> References: <4785f1e20901282234m61bb95c7ic16a7806b285b689@mail.gmail.com> <7AF54581894C4167B4D4202685DE236C@tara> <4785f1e20901291951x491e22a1t7bc641c58daa92d3@mail.gmail.com> <309D977748D84107BA611B30AA76A9B0@tara> Message-ID: <20090130115850.45a821e7@mail.sarai.net> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:27:52 -0500 "taraprakash" wrote: > Thanks Pranesh. I would just like to clarify that the corporate and > government are legally bound to ensure accessibility in the US. The court > has ruled in favor of huge compensation ($6 million) to those who suffered > from inaccessible website of the Target. [...] Yes, the same is true of Europe, and I would like to see a similar law in India. Regards, Gora From asitredsalute at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 13:11:33 2009 From: asitredsalute at gmail.com (Asit asitreds) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:11:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest against Human rights violations in Sri Lanka and the violent curbing of the freedom of press In-Reply-To: <12d068e70901292208v21aa0a8dv7941afc8ef71e120@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d068e70901292000p61ef8bf3i50ebc3924405d9f6@mail.gmail.com> <12d068e70901292208v21aa0a8dv7941afc8ef71e120@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: i endorse the appeal asit On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Saheli Women wrote: > Please endorse the statement below by Saturday, 31st January (noon) and > also > join us for the protest at Jantar Mantar on 31st January at 5.30 pm. > > Please forward this information to others who may be interested. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: ponni arasu > Date: Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM > Subject: [VA377] Protest against Human rights violations in Sri Lanka and > the violent curbing of the freedom of press > To: ponni arasu > > > *Protest against Human rights violations in Sri Lanka and the violent > curbing of the freedom of press* > > Following the brutal attacks and murders of media persons in Sri Lanka in > the past fortnight alone, there have been a number of protests in Sri Lanka > and around the world. > > This protest is to come together in solidarity with the people of Sri Lanka > to raise our voices against the violation of Human Rights in Sri Lanka and > the brutal curbing of the freedom of press. This is to protest the violence > meted out by state and non-state actors on the people of Sri Lanka. It is > an > attempt to assert that we stand for the dignity, respect and rights of all > people, at all times, across the world. > > *Please endorse the statement below and join us for the protest with > placards, slogans, songs and candles. * > * > **Time:* 5:30 PM > *Venue: *Jantar Mantar, New Delhi > *Date:* Saturday, 31st January, 2009. > > Please come and spread the word. > > > *Sri Lanka - War next door. Violations of human rights. Curbing of all > freedoms including that of expression.** * > > Next door to the world's largest democracy is a small island of a > population > of 20 million with people of different religions, ethnicities and castes. > This little island; Sri Lanka has been torn apart by war for the past 25 > years and more. > > A group of rebels representing the minority Tamil population of the country > began fighting for the rights of this community in 1983. These rebels went > on to set up state-like mechanisms in certain parts of the country- namely > the north and the east. They antagonised many persons including progressive > thinkers among the Tamils who argued for civil methods of asserting the > rights of the community as well as the Tamil speaking Muslims, who have now > come to be understood as a different 'ethnic' community in the country. > > Their representation of the Tamil people has come into question over the > years while Sri Lanka saw a series of regressive governments. The present > government epitomises the fascist tendencies among some parts of the > majority Sinhala community. The government did not take forward the peace > processes, however abysmal they may be, initiated by the earlier > governments. Instead they have been on a complete and unabashed military > offensive. This offensive is being launched in the name of protecting the > country and the interests of the people. The number of civilian deaths in > the process are unaccounted for and the interests being protected seems to > include only regressive Sinhala fascist values which seeks to quell the > diversity and vibrance of Sri Lankan society. This government has spent all > its energy (and money) on this war leaving all else in the fray. The > economy > has suffered as have the everyday lives of people in a way not seen before. > > To continue and justify a war, we know from history, that many facts and > truths have to be covered up. The present government has categorically > doused out many voices of dissent both Sinhala and Tamil and continues to > do > so. Attacks on freedom of press and expression have a long history in Sri > Lanka. The recent deaths of journalists, who had the courage to expose the > truths about this war, are only another moment in that unfortunate history. > > The Indian government's reaction to this war has been harmful at worst or > meaningless at best. There are a number of other political reactions in > India which are sectarian in nature which take the side of the Liberation > Tigers of the Tamil Eelam (LTTE) or the Sri Lankan Government, entirely > forgetting that the interests of the people of this small island are not > being met by either parties. > > As progressive individuals who believe in the values of freedom, dignity, > respect and rights, it is imperative that we raise our voice against the > complete disregard for the lives of innocent citizens and the brutal > curbing > of the freedom of expression. If we do not raise our voices now, we will be > next door to ruthless fascist dictatorship that we would have to tolerate > at > best or contend at worst. Let us come together to say no to the violation > of > human rights of the people of Sri lanka and the brutal killing of those who > seek to tell the truth. * * > > *Let us raise our voices in solidarity with the people of Sri Lanka.* > Hiren Gandhi > Dr. Saroop Dhruv > Shalini Krishnan > Vineeta Bal > Anja Kovacs > Priya Thangarajah > Sophie Murphy > Lesley Esteves > Akshara Ravishankar > Anusha Chandrasekhar > Gautam Bhan > Deepti Sharma > Ponni Arasu > Janaki Abraham > Siddharth Singh > Hannah Jayapriya > Anne Philpott > Jagori > Tanuja > Yalini Marian Thambinayagam > Saheli > Sunil Gupta > Ratna Appnender > Pramada Menon > Bhavani Fonseka > Dunu Roy > Pratiksha Baxi > Other Media > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 13:45:24 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:45:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, It is unfortunate that you club RSS alongwith Lashkar. I am sure your conciense would also call it unfair and biased. Just because RSS is a Hindu organisation does not make it a sand bag for others to punch. Or what everyone else wants is that there should be NO organisation to represent Hindu voice. Regards Pawan Durani PS : I am not a member of RSS and neither intend to join it. On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Sandeep > > Thank you for your mail. > > I am sorry but I do not think that I have necessary conceptual grasp > to say any thing of significance in so far as the conduct of > contemporary political organizations like Lashkar, Bajrang Dal or RSS > or Sri Ram Sena or for that matter defunct political organizations > like NASDAP or Bolsheviks is concerned. > > I can only say that I do not in any way, none what so ever, ascribe > or subscribe to their political views. I think these people are not > responsible politicians, for in each and every case, they believe in > the good of a few people rather than whole of the country. > > The reason I was involved with the issue of Lashkar and its renaming > as JUD was because I am interested in the idea of -identity-. And > through this instance of renaming I wanted to explore whether > re-naming influences the imagination of a self or not. > > As far as the recent Mangalore incident is concerned. I think what has > happened is terrible. One can only hope that due process of law is > followed in not only bringing to the book all those people who > committed this rather disgusting crime but also making sure that they > get due punishment. > > We are still getting news on Pramod Mutalik and his open admiration of > Sadhvi Pragya Devi and his exhilaration on her role in Malegaon > blasts, but there are many things that we do not know about him or his > political activities. Hence I do not think that one can say much about > him or his political organization at this point of time. > > However, if you feel that this story must be or could be read in some > other fashion, then I think you should please share your > interpretation with us on the reader list. It would be indeed nice to > read an analysis that either goes against an interpretation which is > manufactured by the media or builds upon it, in such a way that it > produces new insight on Sri Ram Sena and Mutalik. > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 13:57:43 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:57:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Appeasement ! Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901300027t4fdd5defha435db6f712268db@mail.gmail.com> Just an example of how 'secular' 'minorty appeasing Govt' goes on appeasing the muslim community in Jammu & Kashmir .In this case even the person who got award has told media that he was unaware and neither did he lobby for award.Not that some other person from even muslim community may not have deserved it , but giving a presitigious award just for appeasement and that too to non deserving rasie lot of doubts. It is said that a Delhi based Muslim politician had got the name proposed. http://www.breakingnewsonline.net/2009/01/not-olympic-heroes-padma-shri-award.html Not Olympic Heroes, J&K Exporter given Padma Shri Award While the nation is outraged at the apathy shown to Olympic bronze medalists Vijender Kumar and Sushil Kumar on this year's Padma Awards, it was revealed that Hashmat Ullah Khan of Jammu & Kashmir, who is an exporter of shawls, was awarded the prestigious Padma Shri award. Hashmat Ullah Khan was given the award in "craftsmen" category. He is neither an artist nor a craftsman. It is not known who recommended his name to the Padma Award panel. The J&K government has made it clear that it did not recommend Khan's name for the coveted award. The entire issue shows how the prestigious Padma Awards are being given. While cricketers Dhoni, Harbhajan, Bollywood actors Aishwarya Rai and Akshay Kumar were awarded the Padma Shri, the panel has ignored the claims of Vijender Kumar and Sushil Kumar who made the country proud by winning bronze medals at the Beijing Olympics. Who will be held responsible this goof-up? The government needs to take immediate action to punish those who insult the national heroes, but facilitate businessmen and film stars. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Jan 30 15:35:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:05:44 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan Thank you for your response. In my mail to Sandeep, I have said that I do not ascribe or subscribe to views of political organizations who claim power for the good of few people only. I think such organizations are divisive. Any thinking or political ideology which promotes demonization of the other in order to sustain itself is bad. You are absolutely right in some ways but I would rather think that to have RSS like organization is unfortunate and my conscience calls such organizations unfair and baised. Hindu voice is as confusing and as unclear a term to me as Musilm voice. I believe Hindu voice, like Muslim voice is clever rhetoric and nothing else. However this just my interpretation, but I would be extremely grateful to you if you could please talk me through your ideas regarding -Hindu voice- I do not think that Hinduism like Islam in India was ever a homogeneous religion. What organizations like RSS are doing is what organizations like Lashkar intends to do. Which is nothing but to create conditions where only the good of the proponents of a synthetic overarching identity is considered. I do not think such attitudes result in good politics. Alienation of people on the basis of their religious identity is horrible and I am sorry but both Lashkar and RSS claims to represent non-existent HIndu and Muslim voices. Regards Taha From joshuasoans at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 18:17:56 2009 From: joshuasoans at gmail.com (Joshua Soans) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:17:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ravi Batra on the Financial Crisis Message-ID: Ravi Batra is quite the predicter (though hardly predictable). Found a bookby him in my dad's collection some time back and did a little looking up. Seems he forecasted much of the current mess back in '06. A lecture delivered at St. Stephens - http://ravibatra.com/globalfinancialcrisis.htm *The Global Financial Crisis: What Caused it, Where it is heading?* * *by * *Ra*v*i Batra * *(c) No*vember 15, 2008 Professor, Department of Economics Southern Methodist University, Dallas, Texas 75275, USA** Two thousand eight was year extraordinaire. It started off in a rather nonchalant way, but ended with a bang. Its myriad and breathtaking events caught the world off guard, but please allow me to say, arrogant as it sounds, that they did not surprise me, including the epoch-making victory of Barack Obama in the US presidential election. I had anticipated them all in two books more than two years ago. The first, *Greenspan's Fraud*, was written in 2005, and the second, *The New Golden Age: The Coming Revolution against Political Corruption and Economic Chaos*, was finished before October 2006. In fact, the title of the second work itself reveals that I had anticipated an Obama-like revolution in the United States. It now appears vain to remind the people of my forecasts, but see what I had to endure after I made them. Both books had served to reinforce my reputation as a crack pot, who sought public attention with bogus claims and phony prophecies that occasionally came true. *Greenspan's Fraud* was especially galling to my fellow economists, even some of my colleagues. Alan Greenspan was still the chairman of the Federal Reserve in the United States, and had been so for the past 18 years. Some people regard the Fed chairman, with his all-encompassing ability to influence interest rates globally, as the most powerful man in the world. This is perhaps an exaggeration, but Greenspan, who had actually been in the limelight for over three decades, was more than just a Fed chairman. Investors around the world came to worship him in the 1990s, as share markets broke record after record in many nations. Best-selling author Bob Woodward, who achieved celebrity writing about the Watergate scandal, declared Greenspan as the Maestro in 2000 in a book with the same title. Others were equally euphoric about him. Some called him a rare genius, the best economist ever; even Queen Elizabeth chipped in and knighted him in 2002 as Sir Alan Greenspan. Here I was, a mere professor at Southern Methodist University, who had the temerity not just to criticize him but call his policies self-serving and fraudulent. My book's title shocked the people, who in turn mocked me without reading my facts and arguments. But sometimes one has to bear insults to bring out the truth. Where did I learn my economics? The question makes me nostalgic and takes me back into the 1960s, when I was a masters' student at the Delhi School of Economics. There I studied under luminary professors such as K. N. Raj, Jagdish Bhagwati, Amartya Sen, and India's current prime minister, Manmohan Singh. They were great teachers and taught me the fundamentals of modern economics. However, there was one other teacher, whose theories were remarkably different and unknown. He was not even at the Delhi School. I met him in Lucknow, at the time a rather small town in India. He was Shri Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar, a wonderful man of vast knowledge in many different areas. He had written books on history, economics and philosophy among others. Two points stood out in his theories. First, the foundation of prosperity is people's purchasing power; second, rising inequality eventually destroys any economy. I left India for the United States in 1966 to do a Ph. D., but Sarkar's ideas stayed with me and followed me wherever I went. I studied classical economics, Keynesian thought, and numerous other schools, but none focused on what Sarkar had stressed. Finally, I decided to write about his ideas and introduce them to the world, because few paid attention to the gems he had offered. I wrote a number of books based on his theories, starting in 1978, but here I want to emphasize how his ideas enabled me to see through the vacuity and deception of Greenspan's policies. *The Wage-Productivity Gap * Greenspan focused on company profits and labor productivity as the main engines of economic growth and prosperity. He believed that high profits generate high employment and high wages lead to joblessness. I will now show how this view is myopic and the sole cause of most of the economic travails afflicting the world. Let me start with a universally acceptable statement. A healthy economy requires that there is a balance between supply and demand. Here supply means the production of goods and services offered to entire society, and demand means society's demand for such things. Thus, economic balance requires that Supply = Demand Without this balance, there is either high unemployment or high inflation. The main source of supply is labor productivity, whereas the main source of demand is the real wage, or people's purchasing power in Sarkar's nomenclature. When productivity rises, production or supply goes up and when the real wage increases, consumer spending, and hence investment spending, go up. Because of this investment and new technology, productivity grows over time, which means supply rises over the years. Therefore, demand must also grow proportionately to maintain the economic balance, implying that the real wage must rise in proportion to productivity. However, Greenspan loved to see the rise in productivity but hated the rise in the real wage. He even wanted to abolish the minimum wage, and always argued against its rise, although relentless price increases in the United States had all but demolished its purchasing power. In this respect, the maestro had a lot of company, including the support of President George W. Bush and economic establishment. As a result, the U.S. minimum wage, which peaked at $10 per hour in 1969 in terms of 2008 prices, is now less than $7. Incidentally, the unemployment rate in 1969 was just 3.5 percent, among the lowest in US history. If the real wage fails to grow as fast as productivity, then over time, a wage-productivity gap develops and Supply > Demand Then how do you maintain the indispensable economic balance? This is where the special genius of Greenspan, along with that of conventional economics, came into play. This is where liberal and conservative economists alike, some of them Nobel Laureates, preached their gospel and in the process failed the world. There is another way through which demand can be raised—new debt. It is an artificial way, and cannot be used forever, but it can postpone the problem for a long time, while the potential economic imbalance builds and cumulates. From 1981 on, U.S. budget deficits, with Greenspan and company advising President Reagan, grew apace. Economists called it fiscal policy, but in reality it was a debt-creating policy. This is how the supply-demand balance was maintained in the presence of the rising wage gap. Thus, for a while, economic balance occurs when Productivity growth = growth of the real wage plus debt and new debt = supply – demand *The Profit and Stock-Market Bubbles * Once productivity outpaces the real wage and debt fills the supply-demand gap, company profits skyrocket, because the entire fruit of rising productivity goes to capital income. However, these are debt-supported profits, because without this debt goods will be unsold and profits will fail to materialize. With rocketing profits come rocketing share prices, so everybody becomes happy and begins to dance. This is how Greenspan won the world's adulation, and no one looked at the magical role played by debt. Once federal debt began to sore in the United States from 1981 on, it took barely a year, before the Dow Jones Index (the Dow in short) began to rise. The Dow ended the year around 800, but climbed above 2,000 by mid-1987. It had taken the ballyhooed index about 100 hundred years to go past 1,000, but the next 1,000 came in merely two years. A grateful Reagan appointed Greenspan as the Fed chairman in August 1987, but two months later the maestro had to face the music of his own handiwork. The debt-built stock market bubble, founded by that debt-built profit bubble, crashed in the month of October. Greenspan had no idea of how the rising wage gap generates the supply-demand gap. Instead of focusing on wages, he turned to the other way of creating debt. He flooded the world with money and trimmed the interest rate to lure consumers into borrowing. New debt was now created with the help of fiscal policy as well as what economists like to call monetary policy. However, such euphemisms only mask the truth, which is that these policies solve the problem only by generating new debt. With increasing use of computers and the Internet, productivity began to rise faster than before, while government policies restrained wage growth. So the wage gap continued to rise and actually accelerated. Not surprisingly, new debt played an even larger role during the 1990s. The government did not borrow as much as before, but the public did more than its share. The mushrooming U.S. trade deficit also made a contribution in this regard, because the rest of the world bought American government bonds with its trade surplus that resulted in its dollar hoard. Consequently, American interest rates remained low for a long time and lulled Greenspan and the fawning world into believing that his policies were actually responsible for the surface prosperity. So the debt-and-stock-market party that had been derailed by the 1987 crash returned with a gusto. This time the world got drunk on the dot.com boom that took share markets to stratosphere, with the Dow crossing 10,000 in 1999. Still no one realized the crucial role played by new debt in the ever growing mania. For a variety of reasons, the US federal government enjoyed a budget surplus in 1999. Since the wage gap continued to rise, I became convinced that the budget surplus would soon generate a supply-demand gap and hence a crash in profits and share prices. That is when I wrote my book, *The Crash of the Millennium*, predicting that share markets would collapse in 2000 and beyond. This is exactly what happened, because in an environment of the growing wage gap, the moment debt stops growing, supply exceeds demand, over production results, profits tumble and share prices sink. The stock-market crash of 2000-2001 was the worst since the great crash of 1929. *The Housing Bubble * Somehow Greenspan loves bubbles. As the stock market plummeted in 2000, he panicked and slashed interest rates to depths that had not been seen since the depression of the 1930s. He knew consumer demand was inadequate but did not attribute it to the stagnant real wage. He would rather have the public spend money through borrowing than through higher salaries. Greenspan also encouraged people to use their home equity to secure loans and asked banks to lower their lending standards. The banks dutifully followed as they and their CEOs began to make bushels of money. Add to this his deregulation spree that freed banks to trade in the stock market, and bubbles started to emerge in home prices and credit markets. Soon the new bubbles bested even the dot.com balloon of the 1990s. Greenspan still had not realized that since debt cannot grow exponentially all bubbles burst in the end, and when they do the consequences are very painful. I have just given you a capsule of Greenspan's follies and policies; there is much more that cannot be presented in a brief article. But the main point is that the maestro succeeded in hiding the true consequences of his actions and tailored his advice to the ideology of whoever became the American president. In the process Greenspan contradicted his earlier policies, mainly to secure his reappointment as the Fed chairman by the incoming president. Today people realize that Greenspan is mostly to blame for the global crisis. In fact, the cable television channel CNN recently included him among the top 10 culprits responsible for the spreading fiasco, but the same CNN had once idolized the maestro. Greenspan retired in January 2006 and was replaced by Ben Bernanke, who is no different from the former chairman. Mr. Bernanke is also unaware of the role played by sufficiently high wages in restoring economic balance. So he has rehashed Greenspan's policies at even faster place, although it must be added in his defense that the current mess is not entirely of his making. *Where Are We Headed? * In *The New Golden Age*, I predicted that economic chaos would begin in 2007 with a housing meltdown in the United States, followed by a banking crisis and share price declines in 2008 and 2009. I now foresee that this crisis would last at least till 2010, and possibly longer. This is because conventional economists still do not understand the nasty economic effects of the wage-productivity gap, which has grown enormously all over the world. If the doctor does not diagnose the sickness properly, the patient has to suffer for a long time. That is why I am afraid the global financial debacle will turn into a steep recession and be the worst since the Great Depression, even worse than the painful slump of 1980-1982 that afflicted the whole world. I have offered a number of economic reforms deriving from the theory of the wage gap in my two books explored above, and it is possible to come out of the recession within a year, but alas conventional economists would not let us escape the looming disaster so quickly. Yet all is not lost. There is an effulgent silver lining lurking behind the pal of dark clouds. Sarkar's historical cycles that I have repeatedly used in my forecasts also show that eventually the world will see a wonderfully prosperous era enshrined in the new golden age. This, I feel, could happen by the end of the next decade. *Prepared for St. Stephen's College, Delhi. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 19:57:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:57:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi In-Reply-To: <0A9B22BE6978448286A022AF01C3A118@tara> References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> <0A9B22BE6978448286A022AF01C3A118@tara> Message-ID: Dear TaraPrakash I am in complete agreement with what you have said. Because for me, it's not the person but the idea which is more important. Unfortunately, in India, we have a tendency to revere the personalities rather than their ideas. That's why today Gandhi and Nehru have been turned into mere statues, instead of all of us trying to learn something from them. And that's why Mayawati wants statues of herself made in U.P even before she dies. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 20:17:33 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:17:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all It is utterly ridiculous to believe that RSS and Lashkar are not same. Infact, they feed on each other. I refer here to an interview which was published in the Hindustan times, during the campaigning for Lok Sabha elections in 1998, when the Lashkar commander had said that his organization hoped that BJP would win power, because it would mean that it would be easier for them to get more recruits for their 'jehad'. The entire connotations and meanings or interpretations of the word 'jehad' or 'jihad', have been turned into a farce with just one meaning currently in popular use around the world. Many Islamic scholars have pointed out that 'jihad' is a war waged with oneself, against 'evils in oneself'. But it seems the Lashkar wants to turn it into a 'war against others'. For after all, it's very easy to attack someone else for a problem of yours for which the actual reason is you; the more difficult part is to reform oneself. And yes, with the great America-Pakistan army-ISI-corrupt & morally bankrupt politicians across India, we can definitely see them easily spreading through. As far as RSS is concerned, it is doubly vicious. Lashkar has not gained majority support even among Indian Muslims in Kashmir, forget other states. But RSS has been desperately trying to spread its' ideology ala the way Mao did in China during 1930's and 40's, although by different means and in somewhat different circumstances. Golwalkar, one of the RSS chiefs had himself contended, that Muslims and Christians belong to different nations, and are just foreigners. They have to live in India a life worse than second-class citizens(the name was given to Muslims in Gujarat after they were targetted in post-Godhra genocide/riots/pogrom/whatever you wish to call it). And Savarkar, an ideological figure for the Sangh parivar, also mentioned that for Hindus, India is their 'pitrubhoomi' and 'punyabhoomi'. What's more, when Gandhi himself once went to a Sangh office (he did ironically, just before indpendence, in 1946 if I am not wrong) he did not see a portrait of Ram in their office. It was strange that for an organization representing 'Hindus' even then, a Ram-bhakt called Gandhi couldn't find the photo of one of the major icons of Hinduism, as the RSS refer to him now. Of course, for political purposes, even a mandir for Ram can fetch votes, at the expense of dead bodies, so there is no problem to use him then. Although what they know about Ram and believe about him, seems to be completely immaterial. So how can the two be different, is anybody's guess. Both are distorting history and religious texts for their own purposes, which are divisive and disastrous. Regards Rakesh PS: Ironically, for a party-organization structure, which believes in Hinduism, BJP-RSS has also forgotten the other major and more popular icon of Hinduism, Krishna. The reasons are not too tough to find. For one, Krishna 'loved' Radha. All of us know what that means. And now, they have the tenacity to ask us not to celebrate Valentine's day, when all what happens is boys giving roses to girls, proposing to them, and holding their hands and partying. And it's certainly better than our tradition in Holi (according to BJP, our 'dharma' festival), where boys, in the name of applying colour to women and girls, can even take their hands upto breasts of women. And even an abuse of women for this, will be construed as 'meetha'. Remember Mahendra Kapoor saying 'aaj meethi lagi hai teri gaari re'. From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 20:55:16 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:25:16 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> <0A9B22BE6978448286A022AF01C3A118@tara> Message-ID: Now the below comment is going to be very controversial. Hasn't Mayavati, the principle died already. So the portraits are actually posthumous. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: taraprakash Cc: Aditya Raj Kaul ; sarai list Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Gandhi Dear TaraPrakash I am in complete agreement with what you have said. Because for me, it's not the person but the idea which is more important. Unfortunately, in India, we have a tendency to revere the personalities rather than their ideas. That's why today Gandhi and Nehru have been turned into mere statues, instead of all of us trying to learn something from them. And that's why Mayawati wants statues of herself made in U.P even before she dies. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 20:58:18 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:58:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gandhi In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690901290220jd3ad331ta9a9d3e50985a38a@mail.gmail.com> <0A9B22BE6978448286A022AF01C3A118@tara> Message-ID: Dear TaraPrakash I meant Mayawati the person, not Mayawati the principle. Similarly, we have forgotten Gandhi and Nehru as principles in some sense, not them as 'celebrated figures'. We still celebrate Martyr's day and Children's day in their honour. Regards Rakesh From pkray11 at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 00:05:56 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:05:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Protest attack on a film crew by saffron goons!! Message-ID: <98f331e00901301035k4ae33ea9h53d38311e65f0df1@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I am posting this message from filmmaker Rakesh Sharma. In solidarity, Prakash Please help by registering your strongest protest to the Police Commissioner as instead of taking any action against the mob attacking the crew at midnight (asking for Richa to be bodysearched, tearing Rvviu's clothes, snatching the camera, taking the ffotage away), the police seemed to pander to them, and have confiscated our footage illegally! January 29, 2009 Fax CP 22621835 Hasan Ghafoor, IPS The Commissioner of Police, Mumbai Sub: Harassment of documentary film crew and illegal confiscation of footage Dear Sir, We are working with Rakesh Sharma (98203 43103), well-known independent documentary film-maker. Today, we were filming for his latest film which deals with the human tragedy of terror and hate attacks, among other things documenting the diversity of responses from the civil society in the last few weeks. These have included memorial and felicitation functions, interviews with victims, patients and their families, peace marches, workshops and several other miscellaneous events. Today evening, as part of our ongoing filming, we were shooting at the Sadhu Sammelan on peace and terror at their public meeting at Somaiya grounds on Sion-Chunnabhatti road. We took the required permissions from the organizers and were escorted by them into the press enclosure to enable us to film the speakers. After the meeting, as is our usual practice, we were taking audience reactions. While filming with an audience member from Simla, we were suddenly surrounded by a mob of approx 100-150 people, who identified themselves as members of Bajrang Dal and the Dharma Raksha Manch, raising objections to the interview. Though we tried to reason with them, the mob grew increasingly hostile and manhandled the cameraman Rrivu Laha and snatched the camera. They intimidated Ms Richa Hushing and demanded that she be body searched by one of the Durga Vahini members. The local event co-ordinator of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad who identified himself as being in-charge of security, intervened to stop further manhandling and demanded that the footage recently shot by the crew, be immediately erased in their presence. The tape itself was physically snatched by the mob from the cameraman. At this time, the police wireless van attached to the Wadala Truck Terminus Police Station, reached the spot and intervened. They escorted us to their van and PI Chavan questioned us and offered to register a formal complaint. In the meanwhile, the other policemen went into the mob and brought a man named Wankhede with the tape that had been snatched by the mob. While the police were questioning him, two people arrived – one of them a delegate who had earlier addressed the meeting and the other, a local politician contacted by Wankhede. They then insisted that the crew be allowed to leave only after the tape had been formally confiscated by the police. As we had just been subjected to mob violence, harassment, intimidation and were under duress, we agreed to comply with the demands of the mob and left the scene as we had a continuing fear of our safety. We are writing this complaint immediately on our arrival in our office. We request you to treat this letter as a formal complaint and take appropriate action. Further, our footage containing not just the said interview but also much of our filming throughout the evening has not yet been restored to us. We urge that our tape be handed over to us urgently. We have spoken to SI Chavan telephonically at 1.30 am and informed him that this formal complaint is being lodged and have ascertained that the said tape remains in his personal possession. Yours sincerely, Richa Hushing Rrivu Laha, Jogesh Malakar independent fim-maker (9969879319) cinematographer (9372446397) AD (65882504) CC: SI, Wadala Truck Terminus Police Station DCP of the zone Indian Documentary Producers' Association From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 01:04:57 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 01:04:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Delhi_student_leader_attempts_suic?= =?windows-1252?q?ide_after_principal=92s_threats?= In-Reply-To: <6353c690901301044g7857edd8o3423d2df0fe3837b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690901301044g7857edd8o3423d2df0fe3837b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690901301134x1c9b1958vaf3982c04a2de37b@mail.gmail.com> Delhi student leader attempts suicide after principal's threats January 30th, 2009 New Delhi, Jan 30 (IANS) A student leader of the prestigious Ramjas College in Delhi Friday attempted suicide, alleging the college principal had threatened to spoil his career. Abishek Pandey, vice-president of students' union, allegedly cut his right wrist open around 2 a.m. His roommate, who saw him bleeding, took him to a nearby private hospital. Pandey, 19, was discharged after primary treatment. "I was depressed by the principal, Rajender Prasad's remarks. He threatened me in front of everyone he would spoil my life and career," Pandey, a final-year student at the college, told IANS. "It all started because I charged him with playing the card of regional politics among students," he said. The college principal was not available for comments. Deputy Commissioner of Police (north Delhi) Sagar Preet Hooda said no case has been registered against anyone and the matter was not being probed. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 09:40:06 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:10:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi Message-ID: <843969.51984.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> PAKISTAN - INDIA: Mail Today, January 30, 2009 INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP by Najam Sethi A PEACE delegation comprising human and women's rights activists, media peaceniks and party political representatives from Pakistan recently visited New Delhi. They went with a threefold objective: to "condole" the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity with Indians in their hour of grief, to explain how and why Pakistan too is a victim of the same sort of terrorism that is threatening to afflict India, and to try and put the peace process and people- to- people channel back on track. In view of the adverse travel advisories put out by both countries and the war paint put on by both media, the delegation risked being branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. But the two leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- General of the South Asia Free Media Association, are known as fearless crusaders in the region for doggedly promoting the cause of peace between India and Pakistan. Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in India, they threw caution to the wind at home and embarked on their journey across the border with great expectations. In the event, however, even they were surprised by the consistently frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that they received at private, official and media forums in Delhi. It seemed as if all of India, public and private, had consciously united to send out one harsh message to Pakistan: that India is deeply wounded and will not take another such attack lying down. This is perfectly understandable. THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal Hotel, the pride and symbol of resurgent modern India; it humiliated India's " powerful" security establishment by exposing its gaping weaknesses; and the terrorists targeted innocent civilians rather than any specific military or intelligence organ of the state or government, thereby signaling their intent to wage war on India, Indians, and indeed the very idea of secular India. Therefore credit must be given to the Indian establishment for showing great restraint and maturity, unlike the reckless way in which America reacted after 9/ 11. The post- Mumbai composite view in India has three salient elements. First, they say that elements of the Pakistani state were allegedly complicit in the planning, organisation and implementation of the attack, evidence of which is proffered in the recorded chatter of the terrorists with their Pakistani handlers which suggest that this message was deliberately meant to be given. The implication of this, as India's foreign minister has expressly stated, is that non- state actors and state actors in Pakistan were jointly responsible. Second, they believe that the government of President Asif Zardari is innocent but weak and Pakistan's military establishment is guilty and strong. The implication of this is that there is no point in India talking to a weak civilian government or strong military establishment — because both are part of the problem — about redressing terrorism and advancing the peace agenda. Third, they insist that Pakistan should not mistake India's overt outrage and anger as merely election- related histrionics and that it will be business as usual after the elections are over in April. On the contrary, they claim there is a consensus in India's state and society that India must align with the international community and fashion a united strategic resolve to compel Pakistan's state and society to dismantle its terrorist infrastructure on pain of international encirclement, blockade and sanctions. Unfortunately, however, India and Indians seemed blind to an equally harsh reality about their own state and themselves — that terrorism is not just Pakistan's problem but increasingly India's too. This is not because the origins of such terrorism lie exclusively in political distortions within Pakistan but also because India has had a role in creating conditions conducive to its growth by refusing to resolve the regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, the truth is that the whole business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, and the rise of Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the bane of democratic Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the unresolved Kashmir conflict. Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for India's government to claim that because the Zardari government in Pakistan is weak, there is no one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get the peace process back on track. New Delhi had five years of unfruitful dialogue with a strong military- led government from 2003- 08 that was ready to think outside- the- box and make unbelievable concessions, especially on Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the statusquo and lumbering Indian bureaucracy. INDIANS worry and warn about a second terrorist attack on their soil. But just as it is inevitable in one way or another in the future, so too is India's likely response. " Surgical strikes" and " limited war" may be " honourable" self- satisfying responses, but they are not realistic options between nuclear armed states. Nor should India think of responding by manufacturing its own version of state- non- state actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It will only hurtle the two peoples and states into confrontation, make India's problem more intractable and hurt it disproportionately because it has more economic and political sheen to lose than Pakistan. Equally, if all other options are on the table for India in alliance with the international community, including punitive sanctions, blockades and Pakistan's total isolation, it should be clear that such an occurrence will have disastrous consequences for Pakistan's tanking economy and its equally fragile national unity. Fortunately, the view in responsible quarters in India is that even this response, all options short of war, is undesirable because it will plunge Pakistan into headlong failure. The hawks, on the other hand, argue that at least India will have ensured that Military Inc. will have only the ruins of Pakistan to preside over if they continue to muddy the waters. Thus the debate continues. A peace delegation from India needs to visit Pakistan now, not to explain why India is angry — that message lies in the domain of the Pakistani delegation that has just returned from Delhi — but to understand why the cause of its established democratic state and civil society is the same as that of Pakistan's fledgling counterparts. The writer is the editor of The Friday Times From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 10:34:42 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:04:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi In-Reply-To: <843969.51984.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13542.68030.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Najam Sethi writes... "Indeed, the truth is that > the whole > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, and the > rise of > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the bane of > democratic > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the unresolved > Kashmir conflict." This line of reasoning is increasingly becoming popular with Indian liberals like Arundhati Roy who have an obsession with blaming India even if it means sacrificing logic and intellectual honesty. In Pakistani context it is more interesting.The Pakistani establishment (read Pakistani army and ISI)has been pedaling layers upon layers of bullshit to whip up a frenzy against India, and Pakistani liberals like Najam Sethi are eating it up. Please consider the following two points- 1-This is from the article I posted earlier- "The fact remains that the LeT, created by the Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri group; it is active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, and in Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, there is hardly a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most of the LeT members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal areas, in addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It is unlikely that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he chose to distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is what keeps India and Pakistan at each other’s throats." 2-If LET,or the so called bastions of Kashmiri independence are because of the Kashmir issue being unresolved,notwithstanding point #1, then what are the Taliban? Why did Pakistan nurture and train the Talibans for so many years? This is why I have to say that Pakistanis like Najam Sethi deserve dictatorship. Thank you Rahul --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi > To: "sarai list" , "Kumkum Chadha" > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:40 AM > PAKISTAN - INDIA: > > Mail Today, January 30, 2009 > > INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP > by Najam Sethi > > A PEACE delegation comprising human and women's rights > activists, media peaceniks and party political > representatives from Pakistan recently visited New Delhi. > They went with a threefold objective: to "condole" > the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity with Indians in > their hour of grief, to explain how and why Pakistan too is > a victim of the same sort of terrorism that is threatening > to afflict India, and to try and put the peace process and > people- to- people channel back on track. > > In view of the adverse travel advisories put out by both > countries and > the war paint put on by both media, the delegation risked > being > branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. But the two > leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, chairperson of the > Human Rights Commission > of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- General of the > South Asia > Free Media Association, are known as fearless crusaders in > the region > for doggedly promoting the cause of peace between India and > Pakistan. > Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in India, they > threw caution > to the wind at home and embarked on their journey across > the border > with great expectations. > > In the event, however, even they were surprised by the > consistently > frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that they received at > private, > official and media forums in Delhi. It seemed as if all of > India, > public and private, had consciously united to send out one > harsh > message to Pakistan: that India is deeply wounded and will > not take > another such attack lying down. This is perfectly > understandable. > > THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal Hotel, the pride > and symbol > of resurgent modern India; it humiliated India's " > powerful" security > establishment by exposing its gaping weaknesses; and the > terrorists > targeted innocent civilians rather than any specific > military or > intelligence organ of the state or government, thereby > signaling their > intent to wage war on India, Indians, and indeed the very > idea of > secular India. > > Therefore credit must be given to the Indian establishment > for showing > great restraint and maturity, unlike the reckless way in > which America > reacted after 9/ 11. > > The post- Mumbai composite view in India has three salient > elements. > First, they say that elements of the Pakistani state were > allegedly > complicit in the planning, organisation and implementation > of the > attack, evidence of which is proffered in the recorded > chatter of the > terrorists with their Pakistani handlers which suggest that > this > message was deliberately meant to be given. The implication > of this, > as India's foreign minister has expressly stated, is > that non- state > actors and state actors in Pakistan were jointly > responsible. Second, > they believe that the government of President Asif Zardari > is innocent > but weak and Pakistan's military establishment is > guilty and strong. > The implication of this is that there is no point in India > talking to > a weak civilian government or strong military establishment > — because > both are part of the problem — about redressing terrorism > and > advancing the peace agenda. Third, they insist that > Pakistan should > not mistake India's overt outrage and anger as merely > election- > related histrionics and that it will be business as usual > after the > elections are over in April. On the contrary, they claim > there is a > consensus in India's state and society that India must > align with the > international community and fashion a united strategic > resolve to > compel Pakistan's state and society to dismantle its > terrorist > infrastructure on pain of international encirclement, > blockade and > sanctions. > > Unfortunately, however, India and Indians seemed blind to > an equally > harsh reality about their own state and themselves — that > terrorism is > not just Pakistan's problem but increasingly > India's too. This is not > because the origins of such terrorism lie exclusively in > political > distortions within Pakistan but also because India has had > a role in > creating conditions conducive to its growth by refusing to > resolve the > regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, the truth is that > the whole > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, and the > rise of > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the bane of > democratic > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the unresolved > Kashmir conflict. > > Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for India's > government to claim > that because the Zardari government in Pakistan is weak, > there is no > one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get the peace > process back on > track. New Delhi had five years of unfruitful dialogue with > a strong > military- led government from 2003- 08 that was ready to > think > outside- the- box and make unbelievable concessions, > especially on > Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the statusquo and > lumbering > Indian bureaucracy. > > INDIANS worry and warn about a second terrorist attack on > their soil. > > But just as it is inevitable in one way or another in the > future, so > too is India's likely response. " Surgical > strikes" and " limited war" > may be " honourable" self- satisfying responses, > but they are not > realistic options between nuclear armed states. Nor should > India think > of responding by manufacturing its own version of state- > non- state > actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It will only hurtle > the two > peoples and states into confrontation, make India's > problem more > intractable and hurt it disproportionately because it has > more > economic and political sheen to lose than Pakistan. > Equally, if all > other options are on the table for India in alliance with > the > international community, including punitive sanctions, > blockades and > Pakistan's total isolation, it should be clear that > such an occurrence > will have disastrous consequences for Pakistan's > tanking economy and > its equally fragile national unity. Fortunately, the view > in > responsible quarters in India is that even this response, > all options > short of war, is undesirable because it will plunge > Pakistan into > headlong failure. The hawks, on the other hand, argue that > at least > India will have ensured that Military Inc. will have only > the ruins of > Pakistan to preside over if they continue to muddy the > waters. Thus > the debate continues. > > A peace delegation from India needs to visit Pakistan now, > not to > explain why India is angry — that message lies in the > domain of the > Pakistani delegation that has just returned from Delhi — > but to > understand why the cause of its established democratic > state and civil > society is the same as that of Pakistan's fledgling > counterparts. > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 11:23:54 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:23:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , Talking of Lashkar , I believe your thoughts are not well spread. You call Lashkar by any name , whether it is Markaz , SIMI , Taliban , Jammaat ...they all belong to one thought of Islamisation of the world.Non existence of non-believers etc. Let us not blame BJP and RSS etc for spread of this evil. There are no BJP -RSS organisations in Pakistan , Afghanistan , Thailand , Indoenasia ,Philippines , etc where this ideology of Islamic spread through terror is being spread and is being accepted . Those clubbing Lashkar & RSS have either no knowledge or are buying oranges grown in Kashmir and apples in Nagpur. Regards Pawan Durani On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > It is utterly ridiculous to believe that RSS and Lashkar are not same. > Infact, they feed on each other. > > I refer here to an interview which was published in the Hindustan times, > during the campaigning for Lok Sabha elections in 1998, when the Lashkar > commander had said that his organization hoped that BJP would win power, > because it would mean that it would be easier for them to get more recruits > for their 'jehad'. > > The entire connotations and meanings or interpretations of the word 'jehad' > or 'jihad', have been turned into a farce with just one meaning currently in > popular use around the world. Many Islamic scholars have pointed out that > 'jihad' is a war waged with oneself, against 'evils in oneself'. But it > seems the Lashkar wants to turn it into a 'war against others'. For after > all, it's very easy to attack someone else for a problem of yours for which > the actual reason is you; the more difficult part is to reform oneself. And > yes, with the great America-Pakistan army-ISI-corrupt & morally bankrupt > politicians across India, we can definitely see them easily spreading > through. > > As far as RSS is concerned, it is doubly vicious. Lashkar has not gained > majority support even among Indian Muslims in Kashmir, forget other states. > But RSS has been desperately trying to spread its' ideology ala the way Mao > did in China during 1930's and 40's, although by different means and in > somewhat different circumstances. Golwalkar, one of the RSS chiefs had > himself contended, that Muslims and Christians belong to different nations, > and are just foreigners. They have to live in India a life worse than > second-class citizens(the name was given to Muslims in Gujarat after they > were targetted in post-Godhra genocide/riots/pogrom/whatever you wish to > call it). > > And Savarkar, an ideological figure for the Sangh parivar, also mentioned > that for Hindus, India is their 'pitrubhoomi' and 'punyabhoomi'. What's > more, when Gandhi himself once went to a Sangh office (he did ironically, > just before indpendence, in 1946 if I am not wrong) he did not see a > portrait of Ram in their office. It was strange that for an organization > representing 'Hindus' even then, a Ram-bhakt called Gandhi couldn't find the > photo of one of the major icons of Hinduism, as the RSS refer to him now. > > Of course, for political purposes, even a mandir for Ram can fetch votes, > at the expense of dead bodies, so there is no problem to use him then. > Although what they know about Ram and believe about him, seems to be > completely immaterial. > > So how can the two be different, is anybody's guess. Both are distorting > history and religious texts for their own purposes, which are divisive and > disastrous. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > PS: Ironically, for a party-organization structure, which believes in > Hinduism, BJP-RSS has also forgotten the other major and more popular icon > of Hinduism, Krishna. The reasons are not too tough to find. For one, > Krishna 'loved' Radha. All of us know what that means. And now, they have > the tenacity to ask us not to celebrate Valentine's day, when all what > happens is boys giving roses to girls, proposing to them, and holding their > hands and partying. And it's certainly better than our tradition in Holi > (according to BJP, our 'dharma' festival), where boys, in the name of > applying colour to women and girls, can even take their hands upto breasts > of women. And even an abuse of women for this, will be construed as > 'meetha'. Remember Mahendra Kapoor saying 'aaj meethi lagi hai teri gaari > re'. > > > From aliens at dataone.in Sat Jan 31 11:30:34 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:30:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Message-ID: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> Dear All, I am giving my view for recent Pition online movement of cellular silent day on 30/01/09 of Relliance, Tata and Airtel by Ranajan Kamath for their praise of Mr. Narendra Modi. I have send him following fact in their signature compaign but they have rejected my signature and comments as under. _______________________________________________________________________ First of all, for 2002 riots Mr. Narendra Modi is not solely responsible. It was reaction of 59 people burned in train coach. In this riot when even upper middle class were on the road for reaction mode the police have its limitations to act strictly. Just like Sikh riot which was in very large scale than Gujarat riot, but at that time no body blamed the than congress government for their in-activeness. However, Gujarat is always soft target from NGO, English media and psuedo-secularists. However, if we believe that it's a great mistake of Mr. Narendra Modi, but all the great leaders made blunders in the past. Mr. Nehru, no doubt he is great leader, but his mistakes to take Kashmir issue in the UN in spite of warning from fellow members. For this mistake, we are still suffering. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was also great leader, but deviate court orders and imposes of emergency was non-regrettable mistakes. The dynamic PM like Rajiv Gandhi has reverted Shah Bano court case just to appease minority and there after open Ram-Mandir lock to appease Hindu. Actually this is the root of Hindu-Muslim riot occur thereafter. Mr. Narendra Modi Achievements in this 7 years rule are: (1) Dynamic and quick administration to run efficient Government. (2) Minimize corruption. (3) He has stopped chairmanship post for politician and that way govt PSU's become profitable. Such step should follow by all the states and union govt. (4) Huge MOU is not his achievement, his achievement is to provide better and efficient infrastructure and business friendly environment and investment bound to come as a ultimate result. (5) When he took the charge, GEB loss was about 2000 crores, but now its running in profit. This is one example. Many PSU's started profit during his rule. (6) Almost more than 95% villages have 24 hours power. This is not a small achievement. (7) Even central govt. has praised the Gujarat govt. in many occasion and they have followed some similar foot steps. This is few achievement of Mr. Modi I have mentioned, but there are many things and if I mention all these, this article become limit less. What is good must be appreciated and with his capabilities if country can progress, one should not hesitate to take Mr. Narendra Modi services at the center stage. Now, time has come to govern the country by efficient, dynamic and knowledgeable persons irrespective of he/she being a politician or non-politician. So, Ranjan Kamath movement is irrelevant in this global competitive and hi-tech era. It is foolishness to support such movement. I am not belonging to any political party. _____________________________________________________________________________________ I have mailed this to Ranjan Kamath also but no reply from him thanks BIPIN TRIVEDI From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 11:45:48 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:45:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan (and all) Interesting indeed that BJP and Lashkar can't be clubbed together, inspite of the fact that they belong to the same line of thought, of course, with respect to different religions. For the BJP and their parivar, it's the militant portrayal of Sri Rama, which is important in their project of 'Hindutva'. For the Lashkar and their like, it's the militant portrayal of the Prophet and his followers which is important in their project of 'jihad'; or should I say, global jihad. Both want to restrict the rights of women. The RSS believes that women should not drink. Even the Lashkar believes in the same. But it would be interesting to note that the Aryans, from whom come most of the North Indians today, actually used to drink in ancient India, if you go by history. And of course, for those who think this is a figment of imagination created as history by Leftists, better go and research on tribals of India. Many tribal communities in India had their women drinking, on public occasions, and then used to dance. And most of the village communities coming in contact with them also did the same. The Lashkar would better know that even today's Punjabis are ancestrally believed to be Aryans (on either side of border), and while I can't specifically say that about the Pathans in Pakistan, the very idea that a woman can't drink, while men can drink as they please, is utterly ridiculous. Next similarity. Both BJP and Lashkar believe that women can't have premarital sex. But yes, of course, men can have it. So, it's not wrong for men in India to watch shows of devadasis, and even it's a conspiracy against Hindus, if the Kanchi Shankaracharya is arrested on a molestation case (as if our Sadhus are all pure; the Kanchi one is not an original Shankaracharya). And on the other hand, we have the Talibanised section of society in Pakistan, who think that widowed women should be turned into prostitutes, for the benefits of the men. It's a taboo according to both of them, to talk about or even read about sex in public. Indeed. Khajuraho has statues showing erotic portrayals of men and women. But of course, it would be better for the BJP if our men learn about sex, through watching porn films illegally before 18, through having unprotected sex due to peer pressure, and of course through pelvic thrusts and Mallika Sherawats, with no parents to look at children because both parents are working. The Taliban is even better. If you ask for a women's right, you are beheaded. At least your family is spared. The BJP doesn't do that, it not only cuts you, but your family is attacked as well, as Gujarat and 1992-93 riots prove. Not to forget, the administrative failure in preventing Godhra, for it was their govt in the centre and the state which failed to prevent it, a miserable thing indeed. The only difference is in their spread. The Lashkar is spread across many nations, in terms of their ideology and organization. The BJP-RSS is spread only in India as of now, but is slowly taking Indians living in US and UK under its fold. So what should we do? Wait for BJP-RSS to take more countries under their fold? And destroy Hinduism? Or denounce them and stop this, forever. Hinduism and Islam are no monoliths in India. There are diversities in both, and I am proud of my nation having been one of the epicentres (if not the only epicentre) of this diversity in both religions. Nobody, the Lashkar or the BJP-RSS or anyone else has any right to destroy this diversity. As for Pawan jee, there is a saying in Sanskrit, mentioned in Mahabharata: ' vinash kale vipreet buddhi'. When the time of disaster for oneself comes, the mind runs in the opposite direction of where it should go. And we are seeing that with the rise of BJP-RSS and Lashkar. If not stopped, the entire world will have to pay the price of ignoring the rise of the two, not just India and Pakistan or just South-East Asia. So, it makes more sense to buy apples in Nagpur and oranges in Kashmir, rather than saying that both are not same. Regards Rakesh From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 12:01:55 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:31:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi In-Reply-To: <13542.68030.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <141684.36834.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul To say that anybody "deserves dictatorship" is itself a problematic statement. You are again trying to understand very complex issues in simplistic manner. I think some of Najam Sethi's write-ups make a lot of sense. I am copying below another article from Mail Today which I read a month ago. I found it an extremely sharp-focused view on today's situation - reads like a good power-point presentation: A REGIONAL STRATEGY TO FIGHT TERROR by Najam Sethi 27 December 2008 THE bad news is that a private intelligence think tank in the US has forecast war between India and Pakistan. The good news is that this think tanks political risk assessments have proven wrong more often than right in the past. Even better is the constant reassurance by the Indian prime minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, that war is not an option for either nucleararmed country. Even so, Pakistans decision to remain on red alert is wise. But there is no point in drumming up international voices like those of Interpol in support of Pakistans claim that India has not provided sufficient evidence linking Mumbai to Faridkot. The harsh fact is that the whole world — not without some reason — believes that Pakistan is the “ epicenter of terrorism”. Therefore it would be better for the Pakistani government and military to do their best to track down and halt the terrorist networks responsible for regional mayhem. The alternative is international isolation and sanctions. That said, everyone must recognize the three main issues in the region, at the heart of which is the Pakistani states relentless quest for "national security". The first is Pakistan's refusal to accept the LoC as the border with India because of the simmering dispute over Kashmir. The second, which derives from the first, is Afghanistan's refusal to accept the Durand Line as the border with Pakistan. And the third, which derives from the second, is the conflict between the US-led international community and Al-Qaeda- led Islamic radical resistance based in Afghanistan and Pakistan's tribal areas. All three are inter- related and have spawned non- state actors to tilt the balance of power in the great game in the region. PAKISTAN'S unresolved dispute with India over Kashmir has had nine disastrous consequences. One, it has provoked war between the two states (as in 1965 and 1971). Two, it has spawned non-state warring actors as state proxies in time of peace ( by Pakistan in Indian Punjab in the 1980s and Kashmir in the 1990s and by India in Balochistan in the 1970s and 2000s). Three, the bitterness over Kashmir has led to a proliferation of other disputes over Siachin, Sir Creek, and now Baglair. Four, by virtue of being a Soviet ally through much of the cold war, India was encouraged to outflank Pakistan in Afghanistan, stop Kabul from settling the Durand Line with Islamabad and provoke Pashtun nationalism and separatism in the NWFP. Five, when an opportunity arose to expel the Soviets from Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan readily joined hands with the US to create non- state actors for the purpose of staking its own claim in the 1980s. Six, after the Soviets and Americans departed from Kabul, Pakistan and India continued to slug it out in Afghanistan via proxies — Pakistan through sections of the Pashtun Mujahidin and later the Pashtun Taliban, and India via the Uzbek- Tajik Northern Alliance (NA). Seven, the scales in Afghanistan tilted in favour of Pakistan when the Taliban seized control of Kabul in 1997 and sent the NA packing to the north, and against Pakistan after the Taliban cobbled an alliance with Al-Qaeda and provoked America to react in 2001, emboldening India to consolidate its stake with the NA- dominated and US- backed Karzai regime. Eight, Pakistan was now compelled to turn a blind eye to Taliban safe havens in its tribal areas in the expectation that its old “assets” could be retained to capture Kabul and thwart India after the exit of the Americans from the region. Nine, this “ protection” to the Taliban has outraged America which has openly breached Pakistans territorial sovereignty in order to put the Al-Qaeda-Taliban down and precipitated a wave of anti- American and anti- Indian religious nationalism in Pakistan. The most significant consequence of Pakistan's unresolved disputes with India is the rise of the Pakistani military, at the expense of the civilians, as the pre-eminent force in Pakistan's body politic based on the notion of a national security state. The military has created and sustained non- state religious actors both as a means of undermining the mainstream political parties to ensure its predominant role in politics and as a tactical tool to keep India under pressure to resolve Kashmir. This implies that without a resolution of the various conflicts that bedevil India- Pakistan relations in Kashmir, Quetta and Kabul, the non- state actors that have assumed critical mass because of the intelligence agencies proxy wars in the region, cannot be tracked and shut down, either in Pakistan or India or Afghanistan. Conflict resolution would also be the starting point for redressing the civil- military imbalance within Pakistan that stops the militarist national security state from transiting to a democratic social security state. INDIA has had an aversion to multilateral diplomacy to resolve its bilateral disputes in the region. But bilateralism hasnt worked and disputes have become bleeding wounds. Yet, when there has been conflict, both countries have clutched at multilateralism to stop the downslide into nuclear war, as during Kargil in 1999, LoC in 2002 and now via the UNSCs directives to Pakistan to ban some non-state actors. Therefore, a regional conflict- resolution approach is the need of the hour to diffuse the Kashmir-Kabul-Quetta time bomb. This should include America, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan, along with their proxies like the Taliban and the Northern Alliance. A high- profile American regional envoy would facilitate the process, since both India and Pakistan are on the right side of Washington for the first time in history. India should start talking seriously to the Kashmiris in Srinagar and resolve Siachin and Sir Creek expeditiously. Pakistan must disband its non-state actors. America must fashion a medium-term exit strategy from Kabul that facilitates all ethnic stakeholders so that the Afghan Pashtuns look towards Kabul and the Pakistani Pashtuns towards Islamabad for their respective political salvation. A holistic regional approach to conflict resolution is the only route to ending the scourge of terrorism by non- state actors and ensuring the survival and growth of representative democracy in the region. A war between India and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan simply because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ failing” Pakistan, just as America has lost more than the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan by its reckless recourse to war. The writer is the editor of The Friday Times --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi > To: "sarai list" , "Kumkum Chadha" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:34 AM > Najam Sethi writes... > > "Indeed, the truth is that > > the whole > > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, and > the > > rise of > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the bane of > > democratic > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the > unresolved > > Kashmir conflict." > This line of reasoning is increasingly becoming popular > with Indian liberals like Arundhati Roy who have an > obsession with blaming India even if it means sacrificing > logic and intellectual honesty. > In Pakistani context it is more interesting.The Pakistani > establishment (read Pakistani army and ISI)has been pedaling > layers upon layers of bullshit to whip up a frenzy against > India, and Pakistani liberals like Najam Sethi are eating it > up. > Please consider the following two points- > 1-This is from the article I posted earlier- > "The fact remains that the LeT, created by the > Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri group; it is > active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, and in > Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, there is hardly > a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most of the LeT > members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal areas, in > addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It is unlikely > that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he chose to > distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is what keeps > India and Pakistan at each other’s throats." > > 2-If LET,or the so called bastions of Kashmiri independence > are because of the Kashmir issue being > unresolved,notwithstanding point #1, then what are the > Taliban? Why did Pakistan nurture and train the Talibans for > so many years? > > This is why I have to say that Pakistanis like Najam Sethi > deserve dictatorship. > > Thank you > Rahul > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in > Pakistan: Sethi > > To: "sarai list" > , "Kumkum Chadha" > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:40 AM > > PAKISTAN - INDIA: > > > > Mail Today, January 30, 2009 > > > > INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP > > by Najam Sethi > > > > A PEACE delegation comprising human and women's > rights > > activists, media peaceniks and party political > > representatives from Pakistan recently visited New > Delhi. > > They went with a threefold objective: to > "condole" > > the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity with Indians > in > > their hour of grief, to explain how and why Pakistan > too is > > a victim of the same sort of terrorism that is > threatening > > to afflict India, and to try and put the peace process > and > > people- to- people channel back on track. > > > > In view of the adverse travel advisories put out by > both > > countries and > > the war paint put on by both media, the delegation > risked > > being > > branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. But the > two > > leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, chairperson > of the > > Human Rights Commission > > of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- General of > the > > South Asia > > Free Media Association, are known as fearless > crusaders in > > the region > > for doggedly promoting the cause of peace between > India and > > Pakistan. > > Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in India, > they > > threw caution > > to the wind at home and embarked on their journey > across > > the border > > with great expectations. > > > > In the event, however, even they were surprised by the > > consistently > > frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that they > received at > > private, > > official and media forums in Delhi. It seemed as if > all of > > India, > > public and private, had consciously united to send out > one > > harsh > > message to Pakistan: that India is deeply wounded and > will > > not take > > another such attack lying down. This is perfectly > > understandable. > > > > THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal Hotel, the > pride > > and symbol > > of resurgent modern India; it humiliated India's > " > > powerful" security > > establishment by exposing its gaping weaknesses; and > the > > terrorists > > targeted innocent civilians rather than any specific > > military or > > intelligence organ of the state or government, thereby > > signaling their > > intent to wage war on India, Indians, and indeed the > very > > idea of > > secular India. > > > > Therefore credit must be given to the Indian > establishment > > for showing > > great restraint and maturity, unlike the reckless way > in > > which America > > reacted after 9/ 11. > > > > The post- Mumbai composite view in India has three > salient > > elements. > > First, they say that elements of the Pakistani state > were > > allegedly > > complicit in the planning, organisation and > implementation > > of the > > attack, evidence of which is proffered in the recorded > > chatter of the > > terrorists with their Pakistani handlers which suggest > that > > this > > message was deliberately meant to be given. The > implication > > of this, > > as India's foreign minister has expressly stated, > is > > that non- state > > actors and state actors in Pakistan were jointly > > responsible. Second, > > they believe that the government of President Asif > Zardari > > is innocent > > but weak and Pakistan's military establishment is > > guilty and strong. > > The implication of this is that there is no point in > India > > talking to > > a weak civilian government or strong military > establishment > > — because > > both are part of the problem — about redressing > terrorism > > and > > advancing the peace agenda. Third, they insist that > > Pakistan should > > not mistake India's overt outrage and anger as > merely > > election- > > related histrionics and that it will be business as > usual > > after the > > elections are over in April. On the contrary, they > claim > > there is a > > consensus in India's state and society that India > must > > align with the > > international community and fashion a united strategic > > resolve to > > compel Pakistan's state and society to dismantle > its > > terrorist > > infrastructure on pain of international encirclement, > > blockade and > > sanctions. > > > > Unfortunately, however, India and Indians seemed blind > to > > an equally > > harsh reality about their own state and themselves — > that > > terrorism is > > not just Pakistan's problem but increasingly > > India's too. This is not > > because the origins of such terrorism lie exclusively > in > > political > > distortions within Pakistan but also because India has > had > > a role in > > creating conditions conducive to its growth by > refusing to > > resolve the > > regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, the truth is > that > > the whole > > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, and > the > > rise of > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the bane of > > democratic > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the > unresolved > > Kashmir conflict. > > > > Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for India's > > government to claim > > that because the Zardari government in Pakistan is > weak, > > there is no > > one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get the peace > > process back on > > track. New Delhi had five years of unfruitful dialogue > with > > a strong > > military- led government from 2003- 08 that was ready > to > > think > > outside- the- box and make unbelievable concessions, > > especially on > > Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the statusquo > and > > lumbering > > Indian bureaucracy. > > > > INDIANS worry and warn about a second terrorist attack > on > > their soil. > > > > But just as it is inevitable in one way or another in > the > > future, so > > too is India's likely response. " Surgical > > strikes" and " limited war" > > may be " honourable" self- satisfying > responses, > > but they are not > > realistic options between nuclear armed states. Nor > should > > India think > > of responding by manufacturing its own version of > state- > > non- state > > actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It will only > hurtle > > the two > > peoples and states into confrontation, make > India's > > problem more > > intractable and hurt it disproportionately because it > has > > more > > economic and political sheen to lose than Pakistan. > > Equally, if all > > other options are on the table for India in alliance > with > > the > > international community, including punitive sanctions, > > blockades and > > Pakistan's total isolation, it should be clear > that > > such an occurrence > > will have disastrous consequences for Pakistan's > > tanking economy and > > its equally fragile national unity. Fortunately, the > view > > in > > responsible quarters in India is that even this > response, > > all options > > short of war, is undesirable because it will plunge > > Pakistan into > > headlong failure. The hawks, on the other hand, argue > that > > at least > > India will have ensured that Military Inc. will have > only > > the ruins of > > Pakistan to preside over if they continue to muddy the > > waters. Thus > > the debate continues. > > > > A peace delegation from India needs to visit Pakistan > now, > > not to > > explain why India is angry — that message lies in > the > > domain of the > > Pakistani delegation that has just returned from Delhi > — > > but to > > understand why the cause of its established democratic > > state and civil > > society is the same as that of Pakistan's > fledgling > > counterparts. > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:15:51 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:15:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: Dear Bipin (and all) Being a reader of the Sarai-list, I had to respond to the things you have mentioned. It's true indeed that Narendra Modi can't alone be blamed for what happened after Godhra. After all, he is a product of the Gujarati society, and since the society itself was communal at that point of time, or has been communalized systematically, so many people went on the streets. But then again, what was their commitment to the cause they were coming out for (which in this case was looting, killing and raping)? In Vadodara, a mob of more than 5,000 people had ran away just on 3 shots in the air by the local police. And in the capital instead, a former Rajya Sabha M.P. was burnt alive, (his body still hasn't been found), and just 5 minutes before the mob came there, the police commissioner had promised him that he would be secure. The Muslims living in that area had also sought shelter in his home, they were also killed and burnt. If Modi was still concerned with what was happening, for one, he would have ensured the riots didn't spread once the army was out on the streets in the cities. Instead, they spread to the rural areas. And what was the pattern of killings? The people had voter lists with them, went to different areas in cars, directed mobs to burn, used mobile phones to communicate among themselves, and all this while the police was sitting in police stations! Infact, even the RAF people weren't contacted! They were all idle, waiting for just one call, but of course, how could they be contacted, when their lines were cut in many places? Let us also believe that Muslims did burn the Kar Sevaks (it hasn't been conclusively proved, either by Banerjee or Nanavati committee, in any court of law). Which government was there in Gujarat? BJP. Who was at Centre? NDA, headed by BJP. If such an act of burning was indeed going to take place as it was planned (as the police records say), then it was a massive intelligence failure on the part of both centre and state that they didn't have any inkling of the plan at all. Who will accept the blame for that? The BJP didn't. After any accident in the Railways, within 24 hours, a Committee or Commission for Inquiry has to be constituted. It wasn't done in this case by Nitish Kumar, the then Minister of Railways. Why? And why was the Nanavati-Shah commission instead constituted to investigate Godhra? Since when did state governments had rights to constitute commission over properties belonging to centre, namely, the Railways? Where was the BJP then when a state controlled by them was encroaching upon the rights of the Centre? Narendra Modi is responsible because in any statist arrangement in India, the state or the central govt has got enough power to put down any kind of violence, even insurgencies or terrorism (Punjab in 1990's and Kashmir even now, as well as the North-East, demonstrate that. It's just a question of will, whether you wish to apply that power or not. If Gujarat would have wanted, violence may still have been there, but instead of thousands getting killed, the number may well have been less than a number. And yes, what did Modi say after all this ended? He didn't go to relief camps at all, until Vajpayee came. And later again, he never went. He compared the relief camps to 'baby-producing factories'. And he also denounced those who believed in the policy of 'hum paanch humare pachees'. Whom all was he referring to , Mr. Bipin? Muslims, or Hindus? You decide. The sections of society which supported BJP were indulging in violence, and so he allowed his party cadres to collude with them to engineer it and make it successful. Then later, he tried to introduce communal polarisation as a factor with his election speeches in Gujarat. What about that? Are those the signs of a 'great' leader? If others like Nehru, Indira and Rajiv make mistakes, it doesn't mean that I or you or Modi are also allowed to make mistakes of grave kind like this. Two wrongs never make a right, and that's something you first need to understand. And who said the Congress is not criticized for the Sikh riots, they are still criticized even now in all human right forums as much as the BJP is. But of course, the 'temporary' phenomena which resulted in that, has now ended in the Congress. It's now with the BJP. Finally, now to his governance section. What kind of development policies does he support? When Aamir Khan protested on Narmada dam issue, Modi went on a fast and denounced him. And his parivar cadres stopped release of 'Fanaa'. So, force is necessary and no democracy will be allowed. Forget the fact that on technical considerations, the height of Narmada dam has never been adequate, as suggested by petitions repeatedly by Gujarat govt. itself over the years (wanted the height to increase to 50 m, then more, then more).Or even forget that the Madhya Pradesh Govt, which is now also the BJP Govt, has not at all tried to rehabilitate those displaced by all this. And for their rehabilitation, when Aamir Khan demands this, the BJP portrays it as Anti-Gujarat. His policies are all for entreprenuership. So, it's not a problem at all to provide a 30,000 crore subsidy to Tatas directly and indirectly, in the hope of making Gujarat the next China. Forget the fact that there was no debate regarding the necessity of the subsidy at all, for the Tatas. Forget the fact, that salt mills are being put up across the coast, which pollute the coast by residuals which can even harm the fish catches around the Gujarat coast, and severely affect the life of fishermen. Forget the fact, that he first allowed mosques and dargahs to be demolished in the name of 'avenging Godhra', and now he has resorted to destroying temples, without any proper discussions to shift them to other places, in the name of 'removing encroachments on govt. land'. Is this how a 'religious' govt. is supposed to behave? Forget the fact, that under the BJP dispensation, farmers have now started committing suicides in Gujarat under his reign, for the first time since Independence. Forget the fact, that crimes against women in Gujarat have risen to a record level. Forget the fact that Muslims even today, are living in camps and ghettos, and have not been able to return back to where they lived prior to post-Godhra happenings. Forget the fact that the children are leaving schools early than they used to prior to Modi's coming. Forget the fact that prohibition has been the essence of Gujarat as envisaged by Gandhi. For Vibrant Gujarat meets, if removal of prohibition is a necessity, so be it. Forget the fact that ideologically at least we opposed Valentine's Day. If we have to win over the middle classes, and that means stopping these protests, so be it. But that does not mean an ideological shift regarding the position of Muslims in Gujarat. That is nowhere required. What kind of double standard is this, in a state where there are more number of Muslims, than I think the number of people actually celebrating Valentine's Day? I read an article in Outlook on Modi being the future PM as envisaged by India Inc. If there is so much belief in Modi, then I repeat the challenge given a bureaucrat (who preferred to remain anomymous, being of Gujarat of course). If Modi and his fans think he is good, let him go and rule Bihar. And we will know the truth, whether he is a strong administrator, or is wrongly perceived to be strong. Does the '56 inch ki chaati wala Gujarati mard' have the guts to do this? Regards Rakesh From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 13:47:41 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:47:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The weighty burden of names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hullo, My friend and colleague, Sameera Khan and I were somewhat baffled by Sanjay Dutt's recent misogynist comments on last names and wondered what had brought on the rather incoherent tirade. In a short piece we tried to think through what he said and what he might have meant. Comments welcome. Shilpa Phadke The weighty burden of honourable names *Shilpa Phadke & Sameera Khan* * * Clearly Sanjay Dutt hasn't read his Shakespeare for he doesn't seem to recollect the Bard's pronouncement, "What's in a Name?" But then perhaps for one with his nose in all kinds of things rotten, nothing smells sweet to him at all. We allude to Sanjay Dutt's recent assertion of his and his wife's right to the Dutt name, simultaneously questioning his married sister Priya Dutt's right to the same name, thereby annoying not just his sister but all women who choose to keep their birth names. The annoyance of course is mild for in any case, most of us don't rate a convicted criminal's approval very high on our list of priorities. Nonetheless since the issue has come up, its worth not just reiterating rehearsed arguments on women's rights to their birth names but also asking *Sanjay Dutt ke banyan ke peeche kya hai*? At a time when women are transgressing all sorts of previously hitherto sacred boundaries, keeping one's birth name after signing up for the institution of marriage seems like a little thing indeed. And for many progressive men and women, it has become an almost taken-for-granted assumption that both will keep their own names and separate identities if they choose to marry and/ or procreate. Legally in this country women have the right not just to keep their birth names, but also to give these names to their children should they wish to. Sanjay Dutt seems to believe that by changing their last names, women show their husband's honour and respect. We don't really agree with the terms of this debate but even if one were to judge him on his own terms assuming that people bring shame or honour to their 'names' and hence their families, then whom would one consider as honouring the name and who would be seen to be shaming it? If we were Mr Sunil Dutt watching our daughter and son making their way through the world, there is little doubt about whom we would choose to bequeath our name to. The question Sanjay Dutt really raises is more than just the right to keep birth names. It is also about birthright; about inheritances and family legacies, especially in a not-so-closet feudal country like ours. Where women's legal rights to property are still often not honoured and where sisters give up inheritance claims in the name of sibling love, in a roundabout but not very subtle way by questioning his sister's right to her birth family name, Sanjay Dutt is really asking whether Priya Dutt has the right to the family political mantle? As the prodigal convicted son begins to have political ambitions (a clever, if not very original, way to stay out of prison) he perhaps seeks to challenge his sister's right to the family political legacy. If for the moment one sets aside one's objections to such feudal political legacies in a democracy, then the question one must ask is: does the law abiding daughter, have any less claim to the Mumbai North-West Lok Sabha seat – which was held by father Sunil Dutt for several years – than the prodigal convicted son? Hopefully, if Sanjay Dutt does stand for election, the electorate which has demonstrated over and again that they are no dupes will tell him in no uncertain terms that respect and honour cannot be claimed on the basis of a name or as a birthright. They have to be earned. *Shilpa Phadke and Sameera Khan collaborated on the Gender and Space project (www.genderandspace.org) and are currently writing a book based on that research along with Shilpa Ranade. * From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Jan 31 14:15:59 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:15:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jacques Ranciere: Revisiting Nights of Labour Message-ID: Jacques Ranciere: Revisiting Nights of Labour Sarai invites you to a public talk by renowned philosopher Jacques Ranciere, the release of the Hindi translation of his book Nights of Labour: Workers' Dream in 19th Century France. (Sarvahara Raatein: Unneesaveen sadi ke Frans mein Mazdoor Swapna). The book has been translated from the English by Abhay Kumar Dube. This the first in a series of translations of outstanding texts to be published by Sarai- CSDS and Vani Prakashan. Date: Friday, 6th February, 2009 Time: 6:00 pm Venue: CSDS , 29 Rajpur Road Workshop and Roundtable with Ranciere. Saturday 7th February Time: 10 am Venue: CSDS , 29 Rajpur Road Jacques Ranciere is a well known philosopher and writer. As a young student, Ranciere, co-authored Reading Capital (1968), with the Marxist philosopher Louis Althusser. Ranciere later broke with Althusser over the 1968 uprising in France. Since the 1970s Ranciere has produced a number of remarkable texts that range from working class history, philosophy, education, politics, and aesthetics. His books include The Ignorant Schoolmaster: Five Lessons in Intellectual Emancipation(1991), The Names of History: On the Poetics of Knowledge (1994), The Politics of Aesthetics: The Distribution of the Sensible Tr. Gabriel Rockhill (2004),The Future of the Image (2007). Ranciere wrote The Nights of Labour after years of archival work. It traces the world of worker intellectuals in 19th century France, who, through their poems, music, letters, produced a world that did not celebrate work as in conventional socialist texts, but a life outside it. Radical in its style and argument, Nights of Labour, offers not just a revision of working class history, but the relation between politics, knowledge, aesthetics and equality, all of which have become topics of Ranciere's future books. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This event has been made possible by the support of the French Embassy, Delhi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 31 16:28:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:58:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] The weighty burden of names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40901310258k2b79260ai4d2ea0cfb06a80e3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shilpa Thank you for sharing with us an essay on your interpretation of Sanjay Dutt's remarks. May I suggest that you are absolutely right in pointing Sanjay Dutt's rather feudal observation, that being male he has more valid claim to his father's surname, as misogynist. I do not know how a person, who for many years now have carefully constructed a public persona of a still struggling fifty year old teenager, is going to shoulder the responsibilities of a public office, in case he gets elected. Given the propensity of voters belonging to UP in particular to elect filmi contestents like Jaya Prada in Lok Sabha, Raj Babbar on an earlier occasion and Jaya Bachchan in Rajya Sabha, I will not be surprised if Sanjay Dutt do well at the hustings. But I hope better sense prevails. I think by making such a public statement, Sanjay Dutt, has demonstrated once again, his ineptitude to handle challenging situations, just goes on to show the steep emotional journey he has traversed since 1992 when he bought guns to protect the 'muslim community' and 'do something' about the riots or when he was taking drugs or when he with his buddy Mr.Manjerkar were indulging in 'bhai talk' on real time. In my personal opinoin, I would rather have him wear his banyians and entertain with his munabhai lines. Regards Taha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 16:37:37 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 03:07:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India could have fabricated evidence of Mumbai Terror Attack- Pak Diplomat Message-ID: <721118.72395.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Looks like the Pakistanis continue to play the "Terror Game" at different levels and in different forms.   The 'Bad Cop, Good Cop' routine is used by investigators against crime suspects. Here the crime suspects (Pakistanis) are using it against the investigators and the investigations.   First the Pakistan High Commissioner in UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan "indicates" that Pakistan does not accept the evidence dossier sent by India to it and that it "could be fabricated".   That is followed by Pakistan's PM Gilani saying that the evidence was still being investigated and even he did not have details of the probe. Gilani says about Hasan's pronouncements "He can't comment at the moment when the prime minister can't comment,"   Will Gilani sack Hasan?   In an exactly similar situation, Gilani had earlier sacked the National Security Advisor Mahmud Ali Durrani when he confirmed that Ajmal Kasab the lone surviving terrorist of the 27/11 Mumbai Terror Attack was a Pakistani. In doing so, Durrani pre-empted any official statement from Pakistan.   Gilani was then quoted saying that Durrani "had made unauthorised comments to the media". Gilani' office had issued a statement that Durrani was sacked for his "irresponsible behaviour for not taking the prime minister and other stakeholders into confidence, and a lack of coordination on matters of national security,"   Will Gilani sack  Wajid Shamsul Hasan this time.   Kshmendra     "Diplomat: Mumbai attack not planned in Pakistan" Friday January 30, 2009   NEW DELHI (AP) ” A senior Pakistani diplomat said the Mumbai attacks were not planned in Pakistan and suggested Friday that India's evidence linking Pakistan-based militants to the deadly siege could be fabricated.   The comments from Wajid Shamsul Hasan, Pakistan's high commissioner to Britain, were the first from a senior Pakistani official since India handed over a dossier of evidence earlier this month that New Delhi said proved the November siege that left 164 dead had been plotted from Pakistan.   "Pakistani territory was not used so far as the investigators have made their conclusions," Hasan told India's NDTV news channel in an interview. "It could have been some other place."   Hours later, however, Pakistani Prime Minister Yousef Gilani, who is in Davos, Switzerland, at the World Economic Forum, said Hasan had spoken too soon and that his government was not ready to comment on the dossier.   India's package of evidence included details from extensive interrogations of the lone surviving gunman and information gleaned from satellite phones used by the attackers, as well as details of weapons recovered and supplies used.   Hasan indicated that Islamabad did not accept the evidence.   "Well, it could be fabricated," he said. Referring to India, he added, "You took 45 days to give that sort of evidence although you started blaming Pakistan from day one."   But Gilani later told NDTV that the evidence was still being investigated by Pakistan's Interior Ministry and even he did not have details of that probe yet.   "He can't comment at the moment when the prime minister can't comment," he said of Hasan's interview. "Very soon we'll come back to the world whatever the findings are, " he added.   A spokeswoman for Hasan said Friday that he had no further comment beyond what he said to NDTV. She spoke on condition of anonymity, citing policy.   In New Delhi, Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee responded angrily to Hasan's comments.   "We have not received any information from Pakistani authorities through proper channels," he told reporters. "This is not the way a government can respond."   Since the attacks across India's financial capital, New Delhi has said that it expects Islamabad to crack down on the terrorist network it says operates across the border and to help prosecute anyone involved in the Mumbai   Hasan said he was confident the international community would accept Pakistan's findings.   "We are not going to do any whitewashing business. We believe in going after facts. Our findings will be acceptable to the world," he said. "We will try to satisfy India with our findings. We are addressing the concerns of the world, not just India."   Pakistan has arrested several senior members of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group India blames for the attack, but says it will try any suspects in Pakistani courts. Authorities have also moved against a charity that India and others say is a front for Lashkar.   Pakistani authorities have acknowledged that Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the only gunmen among the 10 militant to survive the siege, is from Pakistan. --- Associated Press writer Jennifer Quinn contributed to this report from London.   http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-8335165,00.html       From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 19:05:19 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:05:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh , Thank you for your arguments. I love your arguments and I wonder why you have kept the Vatican Church & Pope away from the club. Apples don't grow in nagpur neither does orange grow in Kashmir. ! Pawan On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pawan (and all) > > Interesting indeed that BJP and Lashkar can't be clubbed together, inspite > of the fact that they belong to the same line of thought, of course, with > respect to different religions. > > For the BJP and their parivar, it's the militant portrayal of Sri Rama, > which is important in their project of 'Hindutva'. For the Lashkar and their > like, it's the militant portrayal of the Prophet and his followers which is > important in their project of 'jihad'; or should I say, global jihad. > > Both want to restrict the rights of women. The RSS believes that women > should not drink. Even the Lashkar believes in the same. But it would be > interesting to note that the Aryans, from whom come most of the North > Indians today, actually used to drink in ancient India, if you go by > history. And of course, for those who think this is a figment of imagination > created as history by Leftists, better go and research on tribals of India. > Many tribal communities in India had their women drinking, on public > occasions, and then used to dance. And most of the village communities > coming in contact with them also did the same. > > The Lashkar would better know that even today's Punjabis are ancestrally > believed to be Aryans (on either side of border), and while I can't > specifically say that about the Pathans in Pakistan, the very idea that a > woman can't drink, while men can drink as they please, is utterly > ridiculous. > > Next similarity. Both BJP and Lashkar believe that women can't have > premarital sex. But yes, of course, men can have it. So, it's not wrong for > men in India to watch shows of devadasis, and even it's a conspiracy against > Hindus, if the Kanchi Shankaracharya is arrested on a molestation case (as > if our Sadhus are all pure; the Kanchi one is not an original > Shankaracharya). And on the other hand, we have the Talibanised section of > society in Pakistan, who think that widowed women should be turned into > prostitutes, for the benefits of the men. > > It's a taboo according to both of them, to talk about or even read about > sex in public. Indeed. Khajuraho has statues showing erotic portrayals of > men and women. But of course, it would be better for the BJP if our men > learn about sex, through watching porn films illegally before 18, through > having unprotected sex due to peer pressure, and of course through pelvic > thrusts and Mallika Sherawats, with no parents to look at children because > both parents are working. > > The Taliban is even better. If you ask for a women's right, you are > beheaded. At least your family is spared. The BJP doesn't do that, it not > only cuts you, but your family is attacked as well, as Gujarat and 1992-93 > riots prove. Not to forget, the administrative failure in preventing Godhra, > for it was their govt in the centre and the state which failed to prevent > it, a miserable thing indeed. > > The only difference is in their spread. The Lashkar is spread across many > nations, in terms of their ideology and organization. The BJP-RSS is spread > only in India as of now, but is slowly taking Indians living in US and UK > under its fold. > > So what should we do? Wait for BJP-RSS to take more countries under their > fold? And destroy Hinduism? > > Or denounce them and stop this, forever. > > Hinduism and Islam are no monoliths in India. There are diversities in > both, and I am proud of my nation having been one of the epicentres (if not > the only epicentre) of this diversity in both religions. Nobody, the Lashkar > or the BJP-RSS or anyone else has any right to destroy this diversity. > > As for Pawan jee, there is a saying in Sanskrit, mentioned in Mahabharata: > ' vinash kale vipreet buddhi'. When the time of disaster for oneself comes, > the mind runs in the opposite direction of where it should go. And we are > seeing that with the rise of BJP-RSS and Lashkar. If not stopped, the entire > world will have to pay the price of ignoring the rise of the two, not just > India and Pakistan or just South-East Asia. > > So, it makes more sense to buy apples in Nagpur and oranges in Kashmir, > rather than saying that both are not same. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 31 20:20:58 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:50:58 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan Thank you for your response. It is indeed true that apples do not grow in Nagpur and Oranges in Kashmir, but don't you sometimes feel that what is true of apple and oranges might not be true of milk and butter. It is indeed unfortunate that we have to deal with the numbing presence of terrorism- which is either State induced or of religious variety be it Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, or Christian on a daily basis like milk and butter. I would certainly want it be like apple and oranges, which would deem it to be more localised and seasonal. Think of it this way- both RSS and Lashkar do not want the good of all. Both RSS and Lashkar thrive on demonization of the 'other' which is a narrow way of looking at things. Both RSS and Lashkar do more harm to all than they do good which they claim in the name of a few proponents. Lashkar's claim to Islam is as valid or invalid as RSS's claim to Hinduism. It is true that words like terrorism are employed to describe Lashkar as words like culture are used to describe RSS. But no word is inalienable part of an organizations. One can easily interchange these words and state that Lashkar promotes a terror culture as RSS indulges in acts of cultural terrorism-such an articulation will not alter fundamental attitudes and value systems which is common to these organizations. Warm regards Taha From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 20:44:34 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:44:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> Compare her face with some that I shall show, And it will make thee think thy swan a crow. -- William Shakespeare On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Pawan > > Thank you for your response. > > It is indeed true that apples do not grow in Nagpur and Oranges in Kashmir, > but don't you sometimes feel that what is true of apple and oranges might > not be true of milk and butter. It is indeed unfortunate that we have to > deal with the numbing presence of terrorism- which is either State induced > or of religious variety be it Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, or Christian on a daily > basis like milk and butter. I would certainly want it be like apple and > oranges, which would deem it to be more localised and seasonal. > > Think of it this way- both RSS and Lashkar do not want the good of all. > Both RSS and Lashkar thrive on demonization of the 'other' which is a narrow > way of looking at things. Both RSS and Lashkar do more harm to all than they > do good which they claim in the name of a few proponents. Lashkar's claim to > Islam is as valid or invalid as RSS's claim to Hinduism. It is true that > words like terrorism are employed to describe Lashkar as words like culture > are used to describe RSS. But no word is inalienable part of an > organizations. One can easily interchange these words and state that Lashkar > promotes a terror culture as RSS indulges in acts of cultural terrorism-such > an articulation will not alter fundamental attitudes and value systems which > is common to these organizations. > > Warm regards > > Taha > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 21:01:51 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:01:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Slumdog Millionaire - Review In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901310731u73fcdf0cibe63914a9b1aa9b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70901310731u73fcdf0cibe63914a9b1aa9b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901310731v2718fd65ra2c09c2701d8f063@mail.gmail.com> Review of Slumdog Millionaire by my favourite blogger - GreatBong . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Slumdog Millionaire - Review greatbong at gmail.com* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here is the short of it. I did not like "Slumdog Millionaire". Or perhaps I should say I was not at all impressed. Maybe it was all the hype, the Oscar buzz and the "It is soooo awesome" first-person accounts I have heard over the last few weeks that led me to go into the theater with unrealistic expectations. Perhaps. First let us get the standard attacks on reviews one does not like out of the way. Yes yes I am being contrarian to get attention. Yes yes I am too idiotic to understand a truly great movie. Yes yes I suffer from a third-world siege mentality where I am offended by anything that does not show my country in a purely positive light. If we can now move beyond these, then let us proceed. And yes. If you have not seen the movie, then perhaps you are better off not going below the fold (though I try my best not to give away the ending) if you want to "experience" without any pre-knowledge this supposed masterpiece. There is a difference between clever film-making and great film-making. Make no mistake, Danny Boyle is immensely clever. "Slumdog Millionaire" is made as an out-and-out "crowd-pleaser" through proper audience-targetting which is done in the same careful way the Chopras target the lovey-dovey high school/college crowd and the Anil Sharmas target the uber-patriots. This crowd-pleasing is done through punching together as many stereotypes that Westerners have about India as is humanly possible. People live in garbage heaps. A character jumps into a huge heap of human excreta and without batting an eyelid comes running out covered in brown slime, as if its the most natural thing in India, to get an autograph of a star. The hero, a Muslim, sees his family slaughtered by Hindu rioters and sees along with it a rioting kid (presumably) dressed as Lord Rama, in blue paint and with a bow and arrow in hand, standing as a sentinel of doom, an image whose indelibility in the character's mind becomes a principal plot point. A character is booked on the flimsiest of charges and then he is beaten black and blue in a police station and given volts of electricity. What else? Let's see. Child prostitution. Check. Forced begging. Check. Blindings of innocent children. Check. Rape. Check. Human filth. Bahoot hain sahab. Call centers. Oh yes most certainly. Destiny. Of course. But wait. Do Hindu saffron-clothed Ram Senas not run havoc through Muslim slums? Do street kids not get taken in by beggar gangs and maimed? Doesnt rape happen in India? Are those slums specially constructed sets? Why do you, third world denizen, get so defensive about your own country? Chill. Well yes these things do happen in India. However the problem is when you show every hellish thing possible all happening to the same person. Then it stretches reason and believability and just looks like you are packing in every negative thing that Westerners perceive about India for the sake of "crowd pleasing". Because audiences and jury members "feel good" when their pre-conceived notions are confirmed. On the flip side, nothing disquiets a viewer as much as when his/her prejudices are challenged. So Boyle does the safe thing. Let's say I made a movie about the US where an African-American boy born in the hood, has his mother sell him to a pedophile pop icon, after which he gets molested by a priest from his church, following which he gets tied up to the back of a truck and dragged on the road by KKK clansmen. Then he is arrested and sodomized by a policeman with a rod, after which he is attacked by a gang of illegal immigrants, and then uses these life experiences to win "Beauty and Geek". Even though each of these incidents have actually happened in the United States of America, I would be accused of spinning a fantastic yarn that has no grounding in reality, that has no connection to the "American experience" and my motivations would be questioned, no matter how cinematically spectacular I made my movie. At the very least, I wouldn't be on 94% on Tomatometer and a strong Oscar favorite. But then you say—Boyle is constructing a fairytale, a dash of Indian exotica, a love story. Surely he can take liberties. Make the darkness darker in order to brighten the halo around the hero and heroine. Ok I get it. That's why the first shot of Taj Mahal is through filth, when any other shot would have done. That's why the host of Millionaire is shown heartlessly mocking the fact that the contestant is a humble "chaiwala" as the audience laughs with him in a way that reminded me of Amrish Puri, rolling his eyes and saying "Tu to gandhi naali ka keeddaaaa hainnnn". Even though this kind of class-based running down will never ever happen on "Millionaire" if for nothing else than political correctness , lets *accept*it happens just to heighten the drama. Which brings us to the main weakness of "Slumdog Millionaire". There are way too many things you have to "accept" in order to enjoy this supposed "glorious celebration of exotica" , too many plot contrivances, too many loopholes you can drive a truck through that you have to turn a blind eye too. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, after all movies are not logic proofs. But "Slumdog" sometimes gets so focused on the "scents" (excreta) and "sounds" (pain) of India that it does not bother to even try to make some of the fantastic coincidences look even moderately plausible. But then again, as you said, it is a fairytale. Which means it has infinite license for taking liberties. The thing is that the same people who are going ga-ga over "Slumdog" saying "Areee yaar, dont over-analyze. Dont see it from a realist perspective. Just enjoy the ride" will go and say "What! She cannot recognize Shahrukh Khan just because he doesn't have his moustache" and " Wait. Rahul Roy sings Jaane Jigar Jaane Man and just finds Anu Agarwal in the city of Mumbai by doing that " and "Gimme a break. Sunny Deol can decimate a full Pakistani armored division with his bare hands and screams. What will these people think of next". The reason for that simple. Hindi movies are, by nature, downmarket and silly. English movies made by people like Boyle, even when they adopt all the conventions of the masala film, are not. Why? Because they have been validated by the "experts" as "life-affirming", "glorious", "celebration of the power of dreams". So "Slumdog Millionaire" with its horribly cliched and predictable love story is a "monumental tribute to the power of love". While Kuch Kuch Hota Hain with its equally cliched and predictable love story is "oooh sooooo bakwaas". Even with all the stereotypes and all the plot contrivances, I would have still enjoyed "Slumdog Millionaire" if it had managed to, at any time, transcend its "masala" origins to become something greater, as Oscar winners ought to. As the "Dark Knight" transcended its comic book origins to become a fascinating study of true evil. As "City of God" goes beyond the depiction of poverty in Brazilian slums (which is never its primary morbid fascination) to become an epic about the cycle of extreme violence. In this respect, Slumdog is never greater than the sum of its parts. The production quality is top notch but then again even Ramgopal Verma's turkeys are technically very accomplished. There is not much scope for acting. However Anil Kapoor, who is slowly coming close to legally becoming a werewolf with his ear ornament makes his mark everytime he unleashes his fake American accent, though you keep expecting him to say "jhakaaassss". If there is anything unique about Slumdog is its use of the millionaire game show device to further its plot (even though the links between the plot and the questions are tenuous and sometimes extremely artificial), which I believe is one of the primary reason why people get caught up in the movie. The same reason they get caught up in reality shows like "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" and get up and cheer when a total stranger gets a million bucks. However once one goes beyond that device, there really is nothing exceptionally unique to Slumdog, nothing that warrants all the hype and hoopla. A big disappointment. http://greatbong.net/2008/12/29/slumdog-millionaire-the-review/#more-623 From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 31 22:41:26 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:11:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901291412m4cefb376k4b07297477e796b4@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901310911g34d9caf3j6a60b61e458c16e9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan Thank you for sharing those splendid words by Shakespeare. But may I suggest that even poetry, how so ever beautiful or profound it may be cannot hide a cold fact that in its essence and outlook an organization like RSS have a lot in common with an organization like Lashker than seem otherwise. RSS actively promotes a view that Muslims must be blamed for the historical illtreatment of Hindus and Lashker supports an argument that Hindus must be annihilated for the wrongs they have committed against Muslims. In doing so they both resort to a fallacy by conjuring up a mythical demon of the 'other' based on a homogeneous religious identity. In practice there is no such thing as either 'Hindu' or 'Muslim'. There are no written or oral or traditional or theological or historical or customary or lingual or legal or philosophical evidence anywhere which can lay claim to a homogeneous imagination of either of these mythical identities. Yes, one can suggest that in so far as Islam is concerned, there is one book which is common to all Muslims, but I do not how many people even read that book let alone make some effort to understand it or interpret it. On the contrary there are ample evidence or counter assertions which point towards a heterogeneity of belief systems regarding these religions. Hence one can argue with a lot of confidence that in its outlook, the RSS is fundamentally similar to Lashker. And no amount of apples and oranges, or swans and crows, or elpahants and cheethas, or corcs and fishes, or plates and saucers, or Shakespeare and Chaucer, or Ghalib and Mir is going to change that. This is just an interpretation and not in any way a generaliation and I would like to know more about your thoughts with respect to the view that Lashker and RSS are in fact fundamental dissimilar. Wherein you might want to assert that they are dis-similar because they do not demonize 'other', they do not actively promote a 'hatred' and a 'distrust' towards the other and in the name of nation or rashtra they do not intend the good of only few citizens. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Jan 31 23:14:05 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:44:05 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin Thank you for sharing a counter petition which argues in favor of Narender Modi. It appears that you have followed Mr. Modi's administration rather closely over the last many years. If that is so then could please explain to me the existence of a view that half of the population of Gujarat is suffering from malnutrition, anemia and low body mass index. You shall have my respect Sir!! if while replying if you could kindly let go of all the well rehearsed arguments in favor of Modi or RSS or BJP, or resorting to wrongs of others to justify Mr. Modis actions because two wrongs do not make a right. However taking a cue from your petition, I want to state that even as an administrator Mr. Modi is grossly inefficient. What matters to me is this- Mr. Modi was given a responsibility, a constitutional responsibility, to take care of his people. If we follow the data given by the FCI and other government bodies then it appears that he has failed badly in providing basic, fundamental amenities like do waqt ki roti, to the very 5 crore Gujarati, in whose name he garnered votes. Hence I do not understand that while he could not even manage five crore Gujaratis in the last seven years, how could he manage 100 crore Indians even for an hour. Warm regards Taha http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/half-of-vibrant-gujarat-goes-to-sleep-empty-stomach/401073/ Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomach Gaurav Sharma Posted: Dec 21, 2008 at 0355 hrs IST Ahmedabad Despite tall claims on paper, cases of malnutrition, anaemia, low body mass index abound in state "It is with the core value of the Right to Food that the Gujarat government's Food, Civil Supplies and Consumer Affairs Department sets its mandate," this is the government's claim. But, according to various reports, the state's Public Distribution System (PDS) is in a shambles. On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project, Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almost half of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry. For its part, the state government has issued nearly 89.58 lakh Above Poverty Line (APL) cards and 35.51 lakh Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards. In the latter category, about 8.10 lakh cards fall under the Antyodaya Anna Yojna (AAY), which caters to the poorest of the poor. So, in all, nearly 1.33 crore ration cards have been issued in the state to ensure the availability of wheat, rice, sugar and kerosene to the poorer sections of society at highly subsidised rates. This means that ideally, the system should work like this— the Food Corporation of India (FCI) issues the PDS quota to Gujarat at a subsidised rate, which in turn further subsidises it for BPL and AAY cardholders. APL citizens get no subsidy and have to pay the market price of their share of PDS. The food goes from the national warehouses to the state warehouses where it is checked, fortified and then distributed to Fair Price Shops (FPS). Ration cardholders then pick up their quota from there. But, as the state government itself has admitted, the PDS in Gujarat have come to be known for hoarding, profiteering, poor quality, adulteration, overpricing and under weighing. The FCI allots less than the required PDS quota to Gujarat and the government doesn't even bother about it. It keeps itself busy converting more and more BPL cards to APL, apparently to showcase its efforts at improving the hunger situation in the state, at least on paper. Also, bogus cards are made at will and the PDS quota is diverted to the open market using these. This happens at both the levels of the Civil Supplies Department and the Fair Price Shops. With absolutely no checks on the FPS, these functions as autonomous bodies and are the major source of resource diversions. Such is the situation now that numerous public hearings, suo motto cognizance by the Gujarat High Court and various RTI applications have failed to bring about any change. Gujarat's Minister for Food and Civil Supplies Narattam Patel could not be contacted for comments. Alarmingly hungry * According to International Food Policy Research Institute's 2008 Global Hunger Index, Gujarat is ranked 69th along with Haiti, the nation infamous for food riots. The state is placed in the 'alarming' category. * The M S Swaminathan Research Foundation has identified urban Gujarat as 'moderately food secure' while rural Gujarat remains 'severely insecure.' * The National Family Health Survey III (NFHS-III) conveys that 42.4 per cent of children in Gujarat are suffering from stunted growth due to malnutrition. Also, about 47.4 per cent of children are underweight in the state. * NFHS-III also points out that more than half of Gujarat's population is Anaemic, with a percentage as high as 80.1 for children aged 6-35 months. * NFHS-III further states that nearly one-third of adults in Gujarat have their Body Mass Index (BMI) below the normal, 32.3 per cent for women and 28.2 per cent for men. System in a shambles but the government is in denial SC overruled * The Supreme Court had ordered on November 28, 2001 and January 10, 2008 to provide 35 kg food grains — 19 kg wheat flour and 16 kg rice — to the poorest of the poor under the Antyodaya Scheme. But the Gujarat government in its resolution dated March 24, 2008 decided to provide 16 kg rice and 16.7 kg wheat fortified flour * The government deducts 2.3 kg from the entitlement of 19 kg and passes it on to the flour mills as the cost of fortification. So, flour mills get the benefit of 24,647 tons of wheat annually at the cost of poorest of the poor Poor distribution system Public hearings in 2008 against injustices abounding in the PDS * 900 people attend a hearing organised by the Lok Adhikar Manch (supported by Action Aid) on April 30 at Anjar, Kutch. * 1,300 people attend a hearing organised by Lok Adhikar Manch on July 2 at Khavda in Kutch * 1,150 people attend a hearing organised by Sarthi (supported by Action Aid) on November 21 at Panchmahals Common grievances recorded * Large scale diversion of PDS food grains * Irregular identification and distribution of ration cards * False and fake entries on ration cards * Fair Price Shops (FPS) open for less than two weeks in a month against the stipulated 24 days Sorry state of affairs * The National Council for Applied Economic Research (NCAER), New Delhi, finds in a survey that nearly 11, 53,000 ghost/fake BPL cards have been issued in Gujarat * An ORG-Marg report commissioned by the Centre reveals that in Gujarat, about 41 per cent of rice slotted for the poor is being diverted * According to the state government, the Centre allots food grains only for 21.20 lakh families as against the 35.51 lakh BPL families, a gap for nearly 14.31 lakh families. Still, the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution confirms in reply to an RTI application that 'No representation is received from any MP, MLA, CM or Minister regarding the supply of food grains to Gujarat since the last one year.' * An analysis report dated December 26, 2007 of the Public Health Laboratory, Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation, confirms live insects, high quantity of chaff in 18 samples of fortified wheat flour supplied by FPS at various districts in Rajkot, Panchmahals, Dahod, Dwarka and Jamnagar. It is deemed unfit for human consumption. * The FCI admits in a reply to an application filed under the Right to Information Act that nearly 73,814 tons of food grains have been damaged in Gujarat and Maharashtra over the past decade From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 23:32:50 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:32:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40901310911g34d9caf3j6a60b61e458c16e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70901300015v648f1e3do70566c5972f07769@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310911g34d9caf3j6a60b61e458c16e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha , I can understand why you and the 'secularists' would like to club RSS with a terrorist orgainsation of International stature. With whatever arguments you may provide , I think this quote of Ralph Emerson suits you a lot ~~People only see what they are prepared to see. ~~ Regards & Happy Weekend Pawan Durani On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Pawan > > Thank you for sharing those splendid words by Shakespeare. > > But may I suggest that even poetry, how so ever beautiful or profound it > may be cannot hide a cold fact that in its essence and outlook an > organization like RSS have a lot in common with an organization like > Lashker than seem otherwise. > > RSS actively promotes a view that Muslims must be blamed for the historical > illtreatment of Hindus and Lashker supports an argument that Hindus must be > annihilated for the wrongs they have committed against Muslims. > > In doing so they both resort to a fallacy by conjuring up a mythical demon > of the 'other' based on a homogeneous religious identity. > > In practice there is no such thing as either 'Hindu' or 'Muslim'. There are > no written or oral or traditional or theological or historical or customary > or lingual or legal or philosophical evidence anywhere which can lay claim > to a homogeneous imagination of either of these mythical identities. Yes, > one can suggest that in so far as Islam is concerned, there is one book > which is common to all Muslims, but I do not how many people even read that > book let alone make some effort to understand it or interpret it. > > On the contrary there are ample evidence or counter assertions which point > towards a heterogeneity of belief systems regarding these religions. > > Hence one can argue with a lot of confidence that in its outlook, the RSS > is fundamentally similar to Lashker. > > And no amount of apples and oranges, or swans and crows, or elpahants and > cheethas, or corcs and fishes, or plates and saucers, or Shakespeare and > Chaucer, or Ghalib and Mir is going to change that. > > This is just an interpretation and not in any way a generaliation and I > would like to know more about your thoughts with respect to the view that > Lashker and RSS are in fact fundamental dissimilar. Wherein you might want > to assert that they are dis-similar because they do not demonize 'other', > they do not actively promote a 'hatred' and a 'distrust' towards the other > and in the name of nation or rashtra they do not intend the good of only few > citizens. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 23:45:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:45:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310911g34d9caf3j6a60b61e458c16e9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan With no malice intended to one and all, even you, the comment is also true for you. You also see only what you are prepared to see. And anything contrary to what you say, is false and malicious. Whereas I at least don't say all BJP arguments made are wrong. My major problem with them is their ideology and support of state violence and cadre violence. If they can change that, it can change many things. They can better learn from their chief minister in my state, Shivraj Singh Chauhan. (I live in MP). He never used terrorism as an issue personally at all, and even stated to Modi (reported unofficially) that terror is not an issue in MP elections, 2008. He was proved true. He got elected not so much because he did good work, but because he dwelt on positivity in his election campaign. I do accept that that in a sense, however is wrong. But it is anyday better than seeing an egoistic man called Narendra Modi winning in Gujarat. That is why what he said after the election is indeed I would be proud of ' Narendra Modi is Narendra Modi. Shivraj Singh Chauhan is Shivraj Singh Chauhan'. Nobody can say he had any personal enemies because of his behavior, though how many Modi has are not countable on fingers at least. When Modi and Advani are campaigning, it always seems as if all others are totally negative and infact traitors for India. Which we are not. And which is what we point out. Forget even administration in a general sense, first of all at least improve how you behave at all, and how you campaign, and what is your ideology for the development of this country. Stop attacking Muslims. You can argue that India is a soft state for negotiating with terrorists. You can argue that going to pubs is against Indian culture, how so ever much it's a biased argument in favor of Brahmans. You can even argue that Bangladeshis should not be allowed to vote in Indian elections. But what is the need to say that Muslims can never be a part of India or even organize violence against them? What is the need to allow your cadres or sections of the populaton to conduct injustices against them? Regards Rakesh From difusion at medialab-prado.es Wed Jan 21 20:43:31 2009 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:13:31 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Reminder: Call for Projects> INTERACTIVOS? Lima'09: Magic and Technology Message-ID: <49773B9B.1060906@medialab-prado.es> :: Please spread this call - thanks! :: Call for Projects INTERACTIVOS? Lima'09: Magic and Technology International Project Development Workshop Deadline for entries: February 15, 2009 Call for collaborators: March 6, 2009 Medialab-Prado and the Cultural Center of Spain in Lima (Peru) issue a call for the presentation of projects to be developed within the INTERACTIVOS?' Lima'09: Magic and Technology workshop, to be carried out in Lima from April 13 through 28, 2009. The aim is the selection of a maximum of 8 proposals for the development of software pieces and interactive installations that propose a rethinking of the usual scenario in magic tricks. The workshop proposes to explore the use of open hardware and software tools in a collective and interdisciplinary manner in order to create technological prototypes with success in the Media from different perspectives: playful, creative and critical. The call is aimed at artists, magicians, engineers, musicians, programmers, designers, architects, hackers, psychologists, etc. Contact: interactivos (at) medialab-prado.es More information: http://medialab-prado.es/article/interactivos_lima08_magia_y_tecnologia Organizers: Cultural Center of Spain in Lima (AECID) and Medialab-Prado (Madrid City Council) http://medialab-prado.es/ http://www.ccelima.org/ -- Nerea García Garmendia Responsable de Comunicación Medialab-Prado Área de Las Artes, Ayuntamiento de Madrid Plaza de las Letras Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid Tfno. +34 914 202 754 difusion at medialab-prado.es www.medialab-prado.es "Antes de imprimir este documento asegúrate de que es realmente necesario. ¡Gracias por tu colaboración!" _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 03:06:22 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:36:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? In-Reply-To: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification from.......????..... It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only song that is played on the national days. Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab Pashchim) is preposterous. Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the movie itself . Regards all LA --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:32:01 +0100> From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net; explore at prashant.ca> Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims?> > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by Prasant> imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but fails to> perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims in this> nationalist song of Bharat Kumar!> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote:> > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to> > reader-list at sarai.net> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> > reader-list-request at sarai.net> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at> > reader-list-owner at sarai.net> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."> >> >> > Today's Topics:> >> > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing)> > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf)> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > Message: 1> > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530> > From: Navayana Publishing > > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti...> > To: sarai list > > Message-ID:> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252> >> > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm> >> > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern> >> > PRASHANT KADAM> >> > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be heard yet> > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song> > celebrates> > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects.> >> > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from the film> > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street corners to> > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again this January> > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by Manoj> > Kumar> > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its natural> > resources and its leaders.> >> > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, khilate> > hain> > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese hain chaman> > ke> > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal bahaadoor> > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar se (In these> > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, Subhash,> > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour green stands> > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is drawn from> > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.)> >> > Although the entire song needs close attention at various levels, I shall> > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few facts have> > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the discourse of the> > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri Goswami in> > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and displacement> > in> > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric writer, Gulshan> > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar background.> > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. The point> > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while> > envisioning> > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his team were> > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India.> >> > New colour> >> > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it superimposes> > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the Buddha.> > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin who openly> > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful negotiations, also> > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is the invoking> > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal> > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a relatively> > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur Shastri).> > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The mention of> > Lal> > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact that> > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His inclusion perhaps> > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he been slipped> > in here?> >> > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian tricolour with> > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non-existent red> > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song> > systematically> > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — with> > certain> > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark blue> > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not only does> > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also the 24> > arcs> > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its central place in> > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, when it> > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the Dhamma Chakra's> > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with this> > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, Dr. B.R.> > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The man who> > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually unknown> > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on his name.> >> > Ample liberties> >> > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in the flag> > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the Indian National> > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has to be> > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted from the> > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or regional> > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such as love,> > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" song takes> > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an unbalanced choice> > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag.> >> > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the absence of women> > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is symbolic and> > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song and its> > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation of images> > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have limited> > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the inaudibility> > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere Desh ki> > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias.> >> > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, we must hear> > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its ambiguous erasures.> >> > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies at York> > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca> >> > www.navayana.org> >> > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts!> > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 2> > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST)> > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?> > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8> >> > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for us.> > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held responsible> > for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because of the govt.,> > the garbage is piling up on the street because of the government, and so on.> > We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any way, I am> > not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer> > reconciliation rather than more violence.> >> > Yousuf> >> >> > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote:> >> > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?> > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM> > > Dear Yousuf,> > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel> > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its> > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact> > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be> > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that> > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement.> > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that> > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and> > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated> > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics> > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves> > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please> > > go through this link.> > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm> > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries> > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World> > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together> > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the> > > University of Maryland."> > > I think even Taha can do the math.> > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a> > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further> > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf?> > >> > > Thank you> > > Rahul> > >> > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > wrote:> > >> > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation> > > an illusion?> > > > To: "sarai list"> > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM> > > > Dear Rahul> > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to> > > be> > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But> > > there is> > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I> > > as a> > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved> > > in the> > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which> > > some> > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in> > > the> > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the> > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are> > > preaching> > > > terror against the so-called kafirs> > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real> > > opportunity to> > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may> > > realize> > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change> > > their> > > > approach. This is the only way situations are> > > controlled in> > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree> > > everyone> > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't> > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi> > > survey was> > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a> > > population of> > > > lakhs.> > > >> > > > Yousuf> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > reconciliation> > > > an illusion?> > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > , "Peace> > > Initiative"> > > > ,> > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM> > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > >> > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an> > > equal> > > > number> > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be> > > > eradicated> > > > > from the face of the earth."> > > > > I agree.> > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to> > > > terror> > > > > possible> > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its> > > > govt."> > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not> > > advocating> > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt> > > should not> > > > be> > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD> > > flourish> > > > and> > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip> > > > flops on> > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other> > > statements> > > > related> > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere> > > they are> > > > in> > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors> > > flourishing> > > > with> > > > > the support of the establishment.> > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat> > > that> > > > person,> > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease> > > doesn't> > > > afflict> > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make."> > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier> > > mail.Contrary to> > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the> > > person> > > > does> > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to> > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to> > > accept> > > > the> > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians> > > while> > > > the> > > > > "treatment" is going on?> > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority> > > of> > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As> > > I> > > > have> > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that> > > would> > > > not> > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps> > > supporting> > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds.> > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in> > > the> > > > way> > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see> > > what> > > > it has> > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for> > > the> > > > money> > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely> > > > eradicate> > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor> > > > people in> > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand> > > and> > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other> > > > hand,while all> > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds> > > from the> > > > US.> > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of> > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end> > > > unless and> > > > > until there is an existential threat to the> > > army.Its> > > > just> > > > > too profitable a business for them.> > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the> > > > warmongers.But> > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate> > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and> > > > insisting on> > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push> > > us> > > > closer> > > > > towards war.> > > > >> > > > > Regards> > > > > Rahul> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > reconciliation> > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > , "Peace> > > > Initiative"> > > > > ,> > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM> > > > > > Dear Rahul> > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must> > > be> > > > true -> > > > > I> > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a> > > > survey in> > > > > India,> > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and> > > > Muslims> > > > > need to> > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth.> > > Same> > > > result> > > > > may> > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are> > > not> > > > born> > > > > with> > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are> > > > brainwashed.> > > > > >> > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from> > > Pakistan> > > > early> > > > > this> > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher,> > > but> > > > he> > > > > won't> > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a> > > school in> > > > his> > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about> > > the> > > > > situation> > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate> > > this> > > > because> > > > > for us> > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them> > > if> > > > they> > > > > > don't have schools in their> > > village".> > > > > >> > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to> > > > terror> > > > > possible> > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its> > > govt.> > > > Was> > > > > the> > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda> > > by> > > > > crushing> > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the> > > situation> > > > become> > > > > worse> > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural> > > > complexities> > > > > of our> > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were> > > > interviewed> > > > > in the> > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu.> > > The> > > > only> > > > > image> > > > > > that their education system has given them> > > of> > > > India is> > > > > that> > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will> > > only> > > > > strengthen> > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them).> > > But> > > > I> > > > > agree> > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not> > > the> > > > only> > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably> > > help in> > > > > improving> > > > > > the results of those surveys in each> > > other's> > > > > favour. If> > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that> > > person,> > > > or> > > > > do you> > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't> > > afflict> > > > you.> > > > > > That's the choice we have to make.> > > > > >> > > > > > Yousuf> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > > reconciliation> > > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > , "Peace> > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > ,> > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13> > > PM> > > > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > > > Have you come across this survey> > > published> > > > in a> > > > > > Pakistani> > > > > > > newspaper?> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/> > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants> > > in the> > > > > > Karachi-based> > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and> > > said> > > > that> > > > > Islam> > > > > > and> > > > > > > other religions supported it."> > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all> > > > those> > > > > surveyed> > > > > > in> > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing> > > was> > > > > acceptable> > > > > > in> > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon."> > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the> > > most> > > > > > cosmopolitan of> > > > > > > all Pak cities.> > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than> > > me,so> > > > can> > > > > you> > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption> > > that> > > > there> > > > > is> > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan> > > that can> > > > be> > > > > > expected to> > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the> > > > questions> > > > > > polled.> > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant> > > > difference?> > > > > How do> > > > > > you> > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > Rahul> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > From: Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace> > > and> > > > > > reconciliation an> > > > > > > illusion?> > > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > > ,> > > "Peace> > > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009,> > > 3:25 PM> > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in> > > response to> > > > an> > > > > HT> > > > > > article> > > > > > > > (copied at bottom):> > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha> > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your> > > write-up I> > > > am> > > > > > wondering if> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > is the same country which produced> > > > Gandhi,> > > > > Kabir,> > > > > > > Buddha and> > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you> > > find> > > > the> > > > > job> > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste> > > of> > > > time,> > > > > I> > > > > > found> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a> > > > large> > > > > number> > > > > > of> > > > > > > people on> > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed> > > up> > > > with> > > > > terror> > > > > > and> > > > > > > violence> > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable> > > > solution. But> > > > > much> > > > > > of> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic> > > > attack on> > > > > such> > > > > > > people who> > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into> > > > > productive and> > > > > > > positive> > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions> > > of> > > > the> > > > > people> > > > > > who> > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are> > > > proposing> > > > > that> > > > > > all> > > > > > > efforts> > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and> > > the> > > > > > people-to-people> > > > > > > contact> > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut> > > and> > > > > replaced> > > > > > simply> > > > > > > by a> > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how> > > exactly do> > > > you> > > > > > define> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we> > > co-existing> > > > right> > > > > now?> > > > > > How> > > > > > > can a> > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab> > > parties> > > > > between> > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve> > > any> > > > > purpose, but> > > > > > I> > > > > > > found> > > > > > > > your statement that there are> > > actually> > > > no> > > > > > > commonalities> > > > > > > > between the culture of India and> > > > Pakistan> > > > > rather> > > > > > > juvenile.> > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be> > > hostile> > > > to> > > > > each> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > because they are culturally> > > dissimilar,> > > > then> > > > > we> > > > > > should> > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > a million more partitions within> > > India> > > > due> > > > > to our> > > > > > > cultural> > > > > > > > differences.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace> > > activists> > > > of> > > > > the two> > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > have remained less effective so> > > far> > > > because> > > > > their> > > > > > > reach has> > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or> > > > Lahore> > > > > only.> > > > > > If> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places> > > such> > > > as> > > > > > Gorakhpur,> > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad,> > > and> > > > meet> > > > > the> > > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able> > > to> > > > > understand> > > > > > each> > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > better and realize that not> > > everyone in> > > > > these> > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there> > > is> > > > "an> > > > > > > irreparable> > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge> > > it> > > > are> > > > > both> > > > > > > unrealistic> > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the> > > divide> > > > has> > > > > been> > > > > > created> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > the governments and writers like> > > you.> > > > The> > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > people of> > > > > > > > the two countries are the only> > > ones who> > > > can> > > > > > bridge> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such> > > > nonsense.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed> > > > > > > > New Delhi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in> > > India and> > > > > Pakistan> > > > > > who> > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace,> > > dialogue> > > > and> > > > > > > reconciliation)> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > We're not all in it together> > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times> > > > > > > > January 22, 2009> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > With tension between India and> > > Pakistan> > > > > > escalating,> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of> > > peace> > > > have> > > > > their> > > > > > hands> > > > > > > full.> > > > > > > > Irrespective of the> > > inappropriateness> > > > of> > > > > > marketing> > > > > > > peace at> > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come> > > to> > > > terms> > > > > with> > > > > > 26/11,> > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are> > > overactive.> > > > Last> > > > > week> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in> > > Amritsar> > > > with> > > > > a> > > > > > banner> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading> > > Delhi> > > > to> > > > > talk> > > > > > peace.> > > > > > > Worse> > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts> > > held> > > > > meetings to> > > > > > > ensure> > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a> > > roaring> > > > > success,> > > > > > apart> > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian> > > soil.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan> > > or> > > > they us,> > > > > they> > > > > > are> > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both> > > make> > > > > endless> > > > > > > comparisons> > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food,> > > dress,> > > > > language,> > > > > > > culture and> > > > > > > > of course history. Politically> > > correct,> > > > but> > > > > > untrue> > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in> > > the> > > > > respective> > > > > > > cuisines,> > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs,> > > rituals> > > > and> > > > > > religion.> > > > > > > What> > > > > > > > are common are the scars of> > > Partition> > > > and a> > > > > > > blood-stained> > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks> > > pretend> > > > do not> > > > > > exist as> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs,> > > while> > > > > pining for> > > > > > a> > > > > > > no-visa> > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to> > > savour> > > > > kebabs and> > > > > > > hosting> > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the> > > surface> > > > and> > > > > there> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have> > > little> > > > chance> > > > > of> > > > > > > healing.> > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and> > > > positions> > > > > > harden.> > > > > > > Then it> > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than> > > > 'you> > > > > and> > > > > > us'.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali> > > > Zardari> > > > > tried to> > > > > > > charm> > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying> > > that> > > > > there is> > > > > > a> > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani> > > and> > > > vice> > > > > versa,> > > > > > the> > > > > > > truth is> > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between> > > the> > > > two.> > > > > It is> > > > > > rare> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a> > > > Pakistani.> > > > > However> > > > > > hard> > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the> > > mutual> > > > > suspicion> > > > > > > sealed by> > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable> > > divide> > > > and> > > > > > attempts> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and> > > > > impossible.> > > > > > > Marching to> > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles> > > for> > > > peace> > > > > is at> > > > > > best> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible> > > > results.> > > > > In> > > > > > other> > > > > > > words, a> > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when> > > an> > > > enraged> > > > > > Pranab> > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign> > > Minister,> > > > sheds> > > > > > diplomacy> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it> > > is> > > > time to> > > > > shed> > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real,> > > and> > > > > abandon> > > > > > the> > > > > > > song and> > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to> > > be> > > > > brutally> > > > > > honest> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace> > > to> > > > > > co-existence. It> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not> > > bonds> > > > of> > > > > history> > > > > > that> > > > > > > force> > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing> > > > peace> > > > > with> > > > > > > co-existence> > > > > > > > will also help end the> > > > "like-mindedness"> > > > > > theory> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in> > > place> > > > of> > > > > > non-workable> > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions> > > > about> > > > > > camaraderie> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > help us face reality: however> > > hard,> > > > bitter> > > > > and> > > > > > brutal> > > > > > > it may> > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it> > > will> > > > be> > > > > much> > > > > > easier> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony> > > bordering> > > > on> > > > > > aggression.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and> > > there> > > > could be> > > > > a> > > > > > road> > > > > > > ahead;> > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly> > > treading> > > > the> > > > > path> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil.> > > But> > > > break> > > > > bread> > > > > > > together> > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because> > > > despite the> > > > > > kebabs> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a> > > volatile> > > > > Indo-Pak> > > > > > border> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > the order of the day.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be> > > the> > > > > peaceniks.> > > > > > Not> > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will> > > be> > > > > unwilling to> > > > > > > accept> > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing> > > all> > > > these> > > > > > years is> > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > illusion.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > _________________________________________> > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion> > > list on> > > > > media and> > > > > > the> > > > > > > city.> > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations> > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to> > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > > > subscribe> > > > > in> > > > > > the> > > > > > > subject> > > > > > > > header.> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe:> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > > > > > > > List archive:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > _______________________________________________> > reader-list mailing list> > reader-list at sarai.net> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> >> >> > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93> > *******************************************> >> > > > -- > Prabhat Kumar> Ph.D. Student,> Department of History,> South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg,> Im Neuenheimer Feld 330,> 69120 Heidelberg, Germany.> Mobile: 00 49 17685050077> FAX: 00 49 06221 546381.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner! Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From navayana at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 10:40:21 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:40:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? In-Reply-To: <7D1741DD-D5DD-4ED5-A2D0-83859945A859@prashant.ca> References: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> <7D1741DD-D5DD-4ED5-A2D0-83859945A859@prashant.ca> Message-ID: Dear Prashant Lalit Ambardar would of course believe that "India" belongs to central/north Indian heroes. And Manoj Kumar is justified in infusing non-existent colours (red!) into the flag. Lalit could perhaps write a nice post on who this Hari Singh Nalava is; and also do us a post on Veerpandia Kattabomman who does not figure in the song. While at it, he can also tell us about Samakka-Sarakka. And yes, this forum has a good share of "lay" fools who would just provoke you by their ignorance. So relax. However, the person who responded to you regarding the absence of Muslims and your not even mentioning this, is I think making a right point and you must take it in the right spirit. Prabhat Kumar is not saying that Muslims are NOT subaltern; he is only pointing to the fact that you could have, in a few lines, noted the fact that not even one Muslim icon is mentioned in the Bharat Kumar song. Anand On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Prashant Kadam wrote: > And what is perhaps more preposterous is it took 32 years for somebody > to at least talk about such misrepresentations. And yes this is not > the only song played on the national days, there are a dozen others > and most have followed the same rhetoric of excluding the marginalized. > > Just because Manoj Kumar made "legendary films" does not qualify him > (or for that matter anybody) for exemption from critical scrutiny. Two > wrongs don't make a right. > > No questions of "certification" or "banning the film" were addressed > in my article, unless you are imagining things. > > It is not surprising to read such "lay" comments, people who have no > sense of film/media theory are bound to make such errors. If you can, > at least try to write some constructive criticism the next time you > write or is it too much to ask for? > > Talking of banning films, try finding out who tried to ban and ransack > theaters when Fire, Fanaa etc. were released. > > Prashant > On 25-Jan-09, at 4:36 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > > > > Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification > > from.......????..... > > > > It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only > > song that is played on the national days. > > Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the > > film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat > > Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab > > Pashchim) is preposterous. > > Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who > > knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the > > movie itself . > > Regards all > > LA > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:32:01 +0100 > > > From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net; explore at prashant.ca > > > Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? > > > > > > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by > > Prasant > > > imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but fails to > > > perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims in this > > > nationalist song of Bharat Kumar! > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, > > wrote: > > > > > > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > > > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing) > > > > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 > > > > From: Navayana Publishing > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... > > > > To: sarai list > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm > > > > > > > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern > > > > > > > > PRASHANT KADAM > > > > > > > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be > > heard yet > > > > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song > > > > celebrates > > > > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. > > > > > > > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from > > the film > > > > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street > > corners to > > > > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again > > this January > > > > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by > > Manoj > > > > Kumar > > > > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its > > natural > > > > resources and its leaders. > > > > > > > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, > > khilate > > > > hain > > > > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese > > hain chaman > > > > ke > > > > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain > > laal bahaadoor > > > > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar > > se (In these > > > > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, > > Subhash, > > > > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour > > green stands > > > > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is > > drawn from > > > > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) > > > > > > > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various > > levels, I shall > > > > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few > > facts have > > > > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the > > discourse of the > > > > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri > > Goswami in > > > > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and > > displacement > > > > in > > > > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric > > writer, Gulshan > > > > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar > > background. > > > > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. > > The point > > > > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while > > > > envisioning > > > > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his > > team were > > > > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. > > > > > > > > New colour > > > > > > > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it > > superimposes > > > > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the > > Buddha. > > > > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin > > who openly > > > > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful > > negotiations, also > > > > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is > > the invoking > > > > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal > > hain laal > > > > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a > > relatively > > > > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur > > Shastri). > > > > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The > > mention of > > > > Lal > > > > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact > > that > > > > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His > > inclusion perhaps > > > > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he > > been slipped > > > > in here? > > > > > > > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian > > tricolour with > > > > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non- > > existent red > > > > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song > > > > systematically > > > > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — > > with > > > > certain > > > > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark > > blue > > > > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not > > only does > > > > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also > > the 24 > > > > arcs > > > > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its > > central place in > > > > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, > > when it > > > > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the > > Dhamma Chakra's > > > > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with > > this > > > > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, > > Dr. B.R. > > > > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The > > man who > > > > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually > > unknown > > > > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on > > his name. > > > > > > > > Ample liberties > > > > > > > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in > > the flag > > > > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the > > Indian National > > > > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has > > to be > > > > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted > > from the > > > > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or > > regional > > > > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such > > as love, > > > > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" > > song takes > > > > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an > > unbalanced choice > > > > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. > > > > > > > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the > > absence of women > > > > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is > > symbolic and > > > > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song > > and its > > > > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation > > of images > > > > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have > > limited > > > > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the > > inaudibility > > > > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere > > Desh ki > > > > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. > > > > > > > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, > > we must hear > > > > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its > > ambiguous erasures. > > > > > > > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies > > at York > > > > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca > > > > > > > > www.navayana.org > > > > > > > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special > > discounts! > > > > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > > illusion? > > > > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > > > > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for > > us. > > > > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held > > responsible > > > > for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because > > of the govt., > > > > the garbage is piling up on the street because of the > > government, and so on. > > > > We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any > > way, I am > > > > not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer > > > > reconciliation rather than more violence. > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > > illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > > > > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > > > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > > > > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > > > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > > > > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > > > > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > > > > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > > > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > > > > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > > > > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > > > > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > > > > > go through this link. > > > > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > > > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > > > > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > > > > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > > > > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > > > > > University of Maryland." > > > > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > > > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > > > > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > > > > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > > > > > be > > > > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > > > > there is > > > > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > > > > > as a > > > > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > > > > > in the > > > > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > > > > > some > > > > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > > > > > the > > > > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > > > > preaching > > > > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > > > > opportunity to > > > > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > > > > realize > > > > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > > > > > their > > > > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > > > > controlled in > > > > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > > > > everyone > > > > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > > > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > > > > survey was > > > > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > > > > population of > > > > > > lakhs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > , > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > > > > > equal > > > > > > number > > > > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > > > > > eradicated > > > > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > > > govt." > > > > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > > > > advocating > > > > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > > > > should not > > > > > > be > > > > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > > > > flourish > > > > > > and > > > > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > > > > > flops on > > > > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > > > > statements > > > > > > related > > > > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > > > > > they are > > > > > > in > > > > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > > > > flourishing > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > > > > > that > > > > > > person, > > > > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > afflict > > > > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > > > > mail.Contrary to > > > > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > > > > person > > > > > > does > > > > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > > > > > accept > > > > > > the > > > > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > > > > > while > > > > > > the > > > > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > > > > > of > > > > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > > > > > I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > > > > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > > > > supporting > > > > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > > > > > the > > > > > > way > > > > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > > > > > what > > > > > > it has > > > > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > > > > > the > > > > > > money > > > > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > > > > > eradicate > > > > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > > > > > people in > > > > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > > > > > and > > > > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > > > > > hand,while all > > > > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > > > > > from the > > > > > > US. > > > > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > > > > > unless and > > > > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > > > > army.Its > > > > > > just > > > > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > > > > warmongers.But > > > > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > > > > > insisting on > > > > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > > > > > us > > > > > > closer > > > > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > > > > > be > > > > > > true - > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > > > > > survey in > > > > > > > India, > > > > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > > > > > Muslims > > > > > > > need to > > > > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > > > > > Same > > > > > > result > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > > > > > not > > > > > > born > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > > > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > early > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > > > > > but > > > > > > he > > > > > > > won't > > > > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > > > > school in > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > > > > > the > > > > > > > situation > > > > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > > > > > this > > > > > > because > > > > > > > for us > > > > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > > > > > if > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > don't have schools in their > > > > > village". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > > govt. > > > > > > Was > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > > > > > by > > > > > > > crushing > > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > > > > situation > > > > > > become > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > > > > complexities > > > > > > > of our > > > > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > > > > > interviewed > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > > > > > The > > > > > > only > > > > > > > image > > > > > > > > that their education system has given them > > > > > of > > > > > > India is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > > > > > only > > > > > > > strengthen > > > > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > > > > > But > > > > > > I > > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > > > > > the > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > > > > > help in > > > > > > > improving > > > > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > > > > other's > > > > > > > favour. If > > > > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > > > > person, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > do you > > > > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > > > > > afflict > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > > > > published > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > > > > > said > > > > > > that > > > > > > > Islam > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > > > > > those > > > > > > > surveyed > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > > > > > was > > > > > > > acceptable > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > > > > > most > > > > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > > > > > me,so > > > > > > can > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > > > > > that > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > > > > > that can > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > expected to > > > > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > > > > > questions > > > > > > > > polled. > > > > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > > > > difference? > > > > > > > How do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > > > > > and > > > > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > "Peace > > > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > > > > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > > > > response to > > > > > > an > > > > > > > HT > > > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > > > > write-up I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > > > > > Gandhi, > > > > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > > > > > find > > > > > > the > > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste > > > > > of > > > > > > time, > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > > > > > large > > > > > > > number > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > > > > > up > > > > > > with > > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > > > > > solution. But > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > > > > > attack on > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > > > > > productive and > > > > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > > > > > proposing > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > > > > > and > > > > > > > replaced > > > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how > > > > > exactly do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > define > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we > > > > > co-existing > > > > > > right > > > > > > > now? > > > > > > > > How > > > > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > > > > parties > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > Indian > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > > > > > any > > > > > > > purpose, but > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > > > > actually > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > > > > > hostile > > > > > > to > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > > > > dissimilar, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > a million more partitions within > > > > > India > > > > > > due > > > > > > > to our > > > > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > > > > activists > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the two > > > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > > > have remained less effective so > > > > > far > > > > > > because > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > > > > > Lahore > > > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > > > > > such > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > > > > > and > > > > > > meet > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able > > > > > to > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > > > > everyone in > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > > > > > is > > > > > > "an > > > > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > > > > > it > > > > > > are > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the > > > > > divide > > > > > > has > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > the governments and writers like > > > > > you. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > > > > the two countries are the only > > > > > ones who > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > bridge > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > > > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > > > > India and > > > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > > > > dialogue > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > > > > peace > > > > > > have > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > hands > > > > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > > > > inappropriateness > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > marketing > > > > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > > > > > to > > > > > > terms > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > > > > overactive. > > > > > > Last > > > > > > > week > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > > > > > Amritsar > > > > > > with > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > banner > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > > > > > Delhi > > > > > > to > > > > > > > talk > > > > > > > > peace. > > > > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > > > > > held > > > > > > > meetings to > > > > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > > > > > roaring > > > > > > > success, > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > > > > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > > > > > or > > > > > > they us, > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > > > > > make > > > > > > > endless > > > > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > > > > > dress, > > > > > > > language, > > > > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > > > > of course history. Politically > > > > > correct, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > untrue > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > > > > > the > > > > > > > respective > > > > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > > > > > rituals > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > religion. > > > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > > > > Partition > > > > > > and a > > > > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > > > > pretend > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > exist as > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > > > > > while > > > > > > > pining for > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to > > > > > savour > > > > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > > > > > surface > > > > > > and > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > > > > > little > > > > > > chance > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > > > > > positions > > > > > > > > harden. > > > > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > > > > > 'you > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > > > > > Zardari > > > > > > > tried to > > > > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > > > > > that > > > > > > > there is > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > > > > > and > > > > > > vice > > > > > > > versa, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > > > > > the > > > > > > two. > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > rare > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > > > > > Pakistani. > > > > > > > However > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > > > > > mutual > > > > > > > suspicion > > > > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > > > > > divide > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > attempts > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > > > > > for > > > > > > peace > > > > > > > is at > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > > > > > an > > > > > > enraged > > > > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign > > > > > Minister, > > > > > > sheds > > > > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > > > > > is > > > > > > time to > > > > > > > shed > > > > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > > > > > and > > > > > > > abandon > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > > > > > be > > > > > > > brutally > > > > > > > > honest > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > > > > > to > > > > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > > > > > bonds > > > > > > of > > > > > > > history > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > force > > > > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > > > > > peace > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > > > > "like-mindedness" > > > > > > > > theory > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > > > > > place > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > > > > hard, > > > > > > bitter > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > brutal > > > > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > > > > > will > > > > > > be > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > > > > bordering > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > > > > there > > > > > > could be > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > road > > > > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > > > > > treading > > > > > > the > > > > > > > path > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > > > > > But > > > > > > break > > > > > > > bread > > > > > > > > > together > > > > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > > > > > despite the > > > > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > > > > volatile > > > > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > > > > border > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > > > > > the > > > > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > > > > Not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > > > > > be > > > > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > > > > > all > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > years is > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > > > list on > > > > > > > media and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > > subscribe > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > reader-list mailing list > > > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93 > > > > ******************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Prabhat Kumar > > > Ph.D. Student, > > > Department of History, > > > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > > > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > > > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > > > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > > > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > Akshay Kumar takes on the two reigning Bollywood Khans. Catch the > > action on MSN Entertainment! Check it out! > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Navayana Publishing M-110 (First Floor) Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 Registered address: Navayana Publishing 54, I Floor Savarirayalu Stree Pondicherry 605001 Ph: 91-413-2223337 Mobile: 91-94430-33305 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From navayana at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 15:31:22 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:31:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? In-Reply-To: <7D1741DD-D5DD-4ED5-A2D0-83859945A859@prashant.ca> References: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> <7D1741DD-D5DD-4ED5-A2D0-83859945A859@prashant.ca> Message-ID: Dear Prashant Lalit Ambardar would of course believe that "India" belongs to central/north Indian heroes. And Manoj Kumar is justified in infusing non-existent colours (red!) into the flag. Lalit could perhaps write a nice post on who this Hari Singh Nalava is; and also do us a post on Veerpandia Kattabomman who does not figure in the song. While at it, he can also tell us about Samakka-Sarakka. And yes, this forum has a good share of "lay" fools who would just provoke you by their ignorance. So relax. However, the person who responded to you regarding the absence of Muslims and your not even mentioning this, is I think making a right point and you must take it in the right spirit. Prabhat Kumar is not saying that Muslims are NOT subaltern; he is only pointing to the fact that you could have, in a few lines, noted the fact that not even one Muslim icon is mentioned in the Bharat Kumar song. Anand On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Prashant Kadam wrote: > And what is perhaps more preposterous is it took 32 years for somebody > to at least talk about such misrepresentations. And yes this is not > the only song played on the national days, there are a dozen others > and most have followed the same rhetoric of excluding the marginalized. > > Just because Manoj Kumar made "legendary films" does not qualify him > (or for that matter anybody) for exemption from critical scrutiny. Two > wrongs don't make a right. > > No questions of "certification" or "banning the film" were addressed > in my article, unless you are imagining things. > > It is not surprising to read such "lay" comments, people who have no > sense of film/media theory are bound to make such errors. If you can, > at least try to write some constructive criticism the next time you > write or is it too much to ask for? > > Talking of banning films, try finding out who tried to ban and ransack > theaters when Fire, Fanaa etc. were released. > > Prashant > On 25-Jan-09, at 4:36 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > > > > Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification > > from.......????..... > > > > It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only > > song that is played on the national days. > > Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the > > film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat > > Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab > > Pashchim) is preposterous. > > Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who > > knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the > > movie itself . > > Regards all > > LA > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:32:01 +0100 > > > From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net; explore at prashant.ca > > > Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? > > > > > > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by > > Prasant > > > imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but fails to > > > perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims in this > > > nationalist song of Bharat Kumar! > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, > > wrote: > > > > > > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > > > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing) > > > > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530 > > > > From: Navayana Publishing > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti... > > > > To: sarai list > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > > > > > > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm > > > > > > > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern > > > > > > > > PRASHANT KADAM > > > > > > > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be > > heard yet > > > > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song > > > > celebrates > > > > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects. > > > > > > > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from > > the film > > > > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street > > corners to > > > > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again > > this January > > > > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by > > Manoj > > > > Kumar > > > > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its > > natural > > > > resources and its leaders. > > > > > > > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa, > > khilate > > > > hain > > > > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese > > hain chaman > > > > ke > > > > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain > > laal bahaadoor > > > > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar > > se (In these > > > > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, > > Subhash, > > > > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour > > green stands > > > > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is > > drawn from > > > > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.) > > > > > > > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various > > levels, I shall > > > > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few > > facts have > > > > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the > > discourse of the > > > > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri > > Goswami in > > > > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and > > displacement > > > > in > > > > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric > > writer, Gulshan > > > > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar > > background. > > > > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. > > The point > > > > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while > > > > envisioning > > > > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his > > team were > > > > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India. > > > > > > > > New colour > > > > > > > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it > > superimposes > > > > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the > > Buddha. > > > > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin > > who openly > > > > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful > > negotiations, also > > > > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is > > the invoking > > > > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal > > hain laal > > > > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a > > relatively > > > > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur > > Shastri). > > > > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The > > mention of > > > > Lal > > > > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact > > that > > > > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His > > inclusion perhaps > > > > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he > > been slipped > > > > in here? > > > > > > > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian > > tricolour with > > > > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non- > > existent red > > > > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song > > > > systematically > > > > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — > > with > > > > certain > > > > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark > > blue > > > > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not > > only does > > > > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also > > the 24 > > > > arcs > > > > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its > > central place in > > > > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, > > when it > > > > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the > > Dhamma Chakra's > > > > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with > > this > > > > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, > > Dr. B.R. > > > > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The > > man who > > > > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually > > unknown > > > > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on > > his name. > > > > > > > > Ample liberties > > > > > > > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in > > the flag > > > > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the > > Indian National > > > > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has > > to be > > > > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted > > from the > > > > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or > > regional > > > > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such > > as love, > > > > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" > > song takes > > > > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an > > unbalanced choice > > > > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag. > > > > > > > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the > > absence of women > > > > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is > > symbolic and > > > > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song > > and its > > > > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation > > of images > > > > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have > > limited > > > > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the > > inaudibility > > > > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere > > Desh ki > > > > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias. > > > > > > > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, > > we must hear > > > > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its > > ambiguous erasures. > > > > > > > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies > > at York > > > > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca > > > > > > > > www.navayana.org > > > > > > > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special > > discounts! > > > > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST) > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > > illusion? > > > > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > > > > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for > > us. > > > > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held > > responsible > > > > for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because > > of the govt., > > > > the garbage is piling up on the street because of the > > government, and so on. > > > > We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any > > way, I am > > > > not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer > > > > reconciliation rather than more violence. > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an > > illusion? > > > > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel > > > > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its > > > > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact > > > > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be > > > > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that > > > > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement. > > > > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that > > > > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and > > > > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated > > > > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics > > > > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves > > > > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please > > > > > go through this link. > > > > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm > > > > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries > > > > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World > > > > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together > > > > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the > > > > > University of Maryland." > > > > > I think even Taha can do the math. > > > > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a > > > > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further > > > > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to > > > > > be > > > > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But > > > > > there is > > > > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I > > > > > as a > > > > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved > > > > > in the > > > > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which > > > > > some > > > > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in > > > > > the > > > > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the > > > > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are > > > > > preaching > > > > > > terror against the so-called kafirs > > > > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real > > > > > opportunity to > > > > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may > > > > > realize > > > > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change > > > > > their > > > > > > approach. This is the only way situations are > > > > > controlled in > > > > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree > > > > > everyone > > > > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't > > > > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi > > > > > survey was > > > > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a > > > > > population of > > > > > > lakhs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > , > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an > > > > > equal > > > > > > number > > > > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be > > > > > > eradicated > > > > > > > from the face of the earth." > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > > > govt." > > > > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not > > > > > advocating > > > > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt > > > > > should not > > > > > > be > > > > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD > > > > > flourish > > > > > > and > > > > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip > > > > > > flops on > > > > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other > > > > > statements > > > > > > related > > > > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere > > > > > they are > > > > > > in > > > > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors > > > > > flourishing > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the support of the establishment. > > > > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat > > > > > that > > > > > > person, > > > > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > afflict > > > > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make." > > > > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier > > > > > mail.Contrary to > > > > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the > > > > > person > > > > > > does > > > > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to > > > > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to > > > > > accept > > > > > > the > > > > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians > > > > > while > > > > > > the > > > > > > > "treatment" is going on? > > > > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority > > > > > of > > > > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As > > > > > I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that > > > > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps > > > > > supporting > > > > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds. > > > > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in > > > > > the > > > > > > way > > > > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see > > > > > what > > > > > > it has > > > > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for > > > > > the > > > > > > money > > > > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely > > > > > > eradicate > > > > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor > > > > > > people in > > > > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand > > > > > and > > > > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other > > > > > > hand,while all > > > > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds > > > > > from the > > > > > > US. > > > > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of > > > > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end > > > > > > unless and > > > > > > > until there is an existential threat to the > > > > > army.Its > > > > > > just > > > > > > > too profitable a business for them. > > > > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the > > > > > > warmongers.But > > > > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate > > > > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and > > > > > > insisting on > > > > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push > > > > > us > > > > > > closer > > > > > > > towards war. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM > > > > > > > > Dear Rahul > > > > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must > > > > > be > > > > > > true - > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a > > > > > > survey in > > > > > > > India, > > > > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and > > > > > > Muslims > > > > > > > need to > > > > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth. > > > > > Same > > > > > > result > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are > > > > > not > > > > > > born > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are > > > > > > brainwashed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > early > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, > > > > > but > > > > > > he > > > > > > > won't > > > > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a > > > > > school in > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about > > > > > the > > > > > > > situation > > > > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate > > > > > this > > > > > > because > > > > > > > for us > > > > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them > > > > > if > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > don't have schools in their > > > > > village". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its > > > > > govt. > > > > > > Was > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda > > > > > by > > > > > > > crushing > > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the > > > > > situation > > > > > > become > > > > > > > worse > > > > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural > > > > > > complexities > > > > > > > of our > > > > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were > > > > > > interviewed > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. > > > > > The > > > > > > only > > > > > > > image > > > > > > > > that their education system has given them > > > > > of > > > > > > India is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will > > > > > only > > > > > > > strengthen > > > > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them). > > > > > But > > > > > > I > > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not > > > > > the > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably > > > > > help in > > > > > > > improving > > > > > > > > the results of those surveys in each > > > > > other's > > > > > > > favour. If > > > > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that > > > > > person, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > do you > > > > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't > > > > > afflict > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > That's the choice we have to make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and > > > > > > > reconciliation > > > > > > > > an illusion? > > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > , "Peace > > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf, > > > > > > > > > Have you come across this survey > > > > > published > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > Pakistani > > > > > > > > > newspaper? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/ > > > > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > Karachi-based > > > > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and > > > > > said > > > > > > that > > > > > > > Islam > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > other religions supported it." > > > > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all > > > > > > those > > > > > > > surveyed > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing > > > > > was > > > > > > > acceptable > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon." > > > > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the > > > > > most > > > > > > > > cosmopolitan of > > > > > > > > > all Pak cities. > > > > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than > > > > > me,so > > > > > > can > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption > > > > > that > > > > > > there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan > > > > > that can > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > expected to > > > > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the > > > > > > questions > > > > > > > > polled. > > > > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant > > > > > > difference? > > > > > > > How do > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace > > > > > and > > > > > > > > reconciliation an > > > > > > > > > illusion? > > > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > "Peace > > > > > > > > Initiative" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, > > > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, > > > > > 3:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in > > > > > response to > > > > > > an > > > > > > > HT > > > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > > > (copied at bottom): > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha > > > > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your > > > > > write-up I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > wondering if > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is the same country which produced > > > > > > Gandhi, > > > > > > > Kabir, > > > > > > > > > Buddha and > > > > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you > > > > > find > > > > > > the > > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste > > > > > of > > > > > > time, > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a > > > > > > large > > > > > > > number > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > people on > > > > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed > > > > > up > > > > > > with > > > > > > > terror > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > violence > > > > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable > > > > > > solution. But > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic > > > > > > attack on > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into > > > > > > > productive and > > > > > > > > > positive > > > > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are > > > > > > proposing > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > efforts > > > > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > people-to-people > > > > > > > > > contact > > > > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut > > > > > and > > > > > > > replaced > > > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > > > by a > > > > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how > > > > > exactly do > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > define > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we > > > > > co-existing > > > > > > right > > > > > > > now? > > > > > > > > How > > > > > > > > > can a > > > > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab > > > > > parties > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > Indian > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve > > > > > any > > > > > > > purpose, but > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > your statement that there are > > > > > actually > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > commonalities > > > > > > > > > > between the culture of India and > > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > juvenile. > > > > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be > > > > > hostile > > > > > > to > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > because they are culturally > > > > > dissimilar, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > a million more partitions within > > > > > India > > > > > > due > > > > > > > to our > > > > > > > > > cultural > > > > > > > > > > differences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace > > > > > activists > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the two > > > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > > > have remained less effective so > > > > > far > > > > > > because > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > reach has > > > > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or > > > > > > Lahore > > > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places > > > > > such > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > Gorakhpur, > > > > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, > > > > > and > > > > > > meet > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able > > > > > to > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > better and realize that not > > > > > everyone in > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > countries > > > > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there > > > > > is > > > > > > "an > > > > > > > > > irreparable > > > > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge > > > > > it > > > > > > are > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > unrealistic > > > > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the > > > > > divide > > > > > > has > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > the governments and writers like > > > > > you. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > > > people of > > > > > > > > > > the two countries are the only > > > > > ones who > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > bridge > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such > > > > > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in > > > > > India and > > > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace, > > > > > dialogue > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > reconciliation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together > > > > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > January 22, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tension between India and > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > > > escalating, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of > > > > > peace > > > > > > have > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > hands > > > > > > > > > full. > > > > > > > > > > Irrespective of the > > > > > inappropriateness > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > marketing > > > > > > > > > peace at > > > > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come > > > > > to > > > > > > terms > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > 26/11, > > > > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are > > > > > overactive. > > > > > > Last > > > > > > > week > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in > > > > > Amritsar > > > > > > with > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > banner > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading > > > > > Delhi > > > > > > to > > > > > > > talk > > > > > > > > peace. > > > > > > > > > Worse > > > > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts > > > > > held > > > > > > > meetings to > > > > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a > > > > > roaring > > > > > > > success, > > > > > > > > apart > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian > > > > > soil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan > > > > > or > > > > > > they us, > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both > > > > > make > > > > > > > endless > > > > > > > > > comparisons > > > > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food, > > > > > dress, > > > > > > > language, > > > > > > > > > culture and > > > > > > > > > > of course history. Politically > > > > > correct, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > untrue > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in > > > > > the > > > > > > > respective > > > > > > > > > cuisines, > > > > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs, > > > > > rituals > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > religion. > > > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > > are common are the scars of > > > > > Partition > > > > > > and a > > > > > > > > > blood-stained > > > > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks > > > > > pretend > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > exist as > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, > > > > > while > > > > > > > pining for > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > no-visa > > > > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to > > > > > savour > > > > > > > kebabs and > > > > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the > > > > > surface > > > > > > and > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have > > > > > little > > > > > > chance > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > healing. > > > > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and > > > > > > positions > > > > > > > > harden. > > > > > > > > > Then it > > > > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than > > > > > > 'you > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > us'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali > > > > > > Zardari > > > > > > > tried to > > > > > > > > > charm > > > > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying > > > > > that > > > > > > > there is > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani > > > > > and > > > > > > vice > > > > > > > versa, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > truth is > > > > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between > > > > > the > > > > > > two. > > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > > rare > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a > > > > > > Pakistani. > > > > > > > However > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the > > > > > mutual > > > > > > > suspicion > > > > > > > > > sealed by > > > > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable > > > > > divide > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > attempts > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and > > > > > > > impossible. > > > > > > > > > Marching to > > > > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles > > > > > for > > > > > > peace > > > > > > > is at > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > words, a > > > > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when > > > > > an > > > > > > enraged > > > > > > > > Pranab > > > > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign > > > > > Minister, > > > > > > sheds > > > > > > > > diplomacy > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it > > > > > is > > > > > > time to > > > > > > > shed > > > > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, > > > > > and > > > > > > > abandon > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > song and > > > > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to > > > > > be > > > > > > > brutally > > > > > > > > honest > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace > > > > > to > > > > > > > > co-existence. It > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not > > > > > bonds > > > > > > of > > > > > > > history > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > force > > > > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing > > > > > > peace > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > co-existence > > > > > > > > > > will also help end the > > > > > > "like-mindedness" > > > > > > > > theory > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in > > > > > place > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > non-workable > > > > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > camaraderie > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > help us face reality: however > > > > > hard, > > > > > > bitter > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > brutal > > > > > > > > > it may > > > > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it > > > > > will > > > > > > be > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony > > > > > bordering > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > aggression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and > > > > > there > > > > > > could be > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > road > > > > > > > > > ahead; > > > > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly > > > > > treading > > > > > > the > > > > > > > path > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil. > > > > > But > > > > > > break > > > > > > > bread > > > > > > > > > together > > > > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because > > > > > > despite the > > > > > > > > kebabs > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a > > > > > volatile > > > > > > > Indo-Pak > > > > > > > > border > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > the order of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be > > > > > the > > > > > > > peaceniks. > > > > > > > > Not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will > > > > > be > > > > > > > unwilling to > > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing > > > > > all > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > years is > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion > > > > > list on > > > > > > > media and > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > city. > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > > subscribe > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > > > > header. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > reader-list mailing list > > > > reader-list at sarai.net > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93 > > > > ******************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Prabhat Kumar > > > Ph.D. Student, > > > Department of History, > > > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > > > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > > > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > > > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > > > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > Akshay Kumar takes on the two reigning Bollywood Khans. Catch the > > action on MSN Entertainment! Check it out! > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Navayana Publishing M-110 (First Floor) Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 Registered address: Navayana Publishing 54, I Floor Savarirayalu Stree Pondicherry 605001 Ph: 91-413-2223337 Mobile: 91-94430-33305 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 17:20:36 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:50:36 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? In-Reply-To: References: <418f44e20901250932ja17bf8j9360869f7b5f2a3f@mail.gmail.com> <7D1741DD-D5DD-4ED5-A2D0-83859945A859@prashant.ca> Message-ID: This weird idea of ‘India belonging to some particular regions only’ could emanate only from a ‘sick mindset’ with a propensity to ‘invent’ divisiveness even in a piece of fiction like a song in a feature film that in the first place never claimed to represent history. Any comment that is contrary to this absurd ‘research’ does not suggest support for banning of films---correct yourselves on that. And it smacks of arrogance to flaunt ones address on the forum, only to claim authority on the subject ‘film /media theory’. In any case,here the discourse is not about academic qualifications or foreign universities. Yes, there certainly remains a lot more to be done on the academic curricula especially at the school level to include legends about national heroes from all parts of the country. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:31:22 +0530Subject: Re: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims?From: navayana at gmail.comTo: explore at prashant.caCC: lalitambardar at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net; prabhatkumar250 at gmail.comDear PrashantLalit Ambardar would of course believe that "India" belongs to central/north Indian heroes. And Manoj Kumar is justified in infusing non-existent colours (red!) into the flag. Lalit could perhaps write a nice post on who this Hari Singh Nalava is; and also do us a post on Veerpandia Kattabomman who does not figure in the song. While at it, he can also tell us about Samakka-Sarakka. And yes, this forum has a good share of "lay" fools who would just provoke you by their ignorance. So relax.However, the person who responded to you regarding the absence of Muslims and your not even mentioning this, is I think making a right point and you must take it in the right spirit. Prabhat Kumar is not saying that Muslims are NOT subaltern; he is only pointing to the fact that you could have, in a few lines, noted the fact that not even one Muslim icon is mentioned in the Bharat Kumar song.Anand On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Prashant Kadam wrote: And what is perhaps more preposterous is it took 32 years for somebodyto at least talk about such misrepresentations. And yes this is notthe only song played on the national days, there are a dozen othersand most have followed the same rhetoric of excluding the marginalized.Just because Manoj Kumar made "legendary films" does not qualify him(or for that matter anybody) for exemption from critical scrutiny. Twowrongs don't make a right.No questions of "certification" or "banning the film" were addressedin my article, unless you are imagining things.It is not surprising to read such "lay" comments, people who have nosense of film/media theory are bound to make such errors. If you can,at least try to write some constructive criticism the next time youwrite or is it too much to ask for?Talking of banning films, try finding out who tried to ban and ransacktheaters when Fire, Fanaa etc. were released.PrashantOn 25-Jan-09, at 4:36 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote:>> Now the lyricists & film makers too would need to get certification> from.......????.....>> It is after all a song only & not a saga.And this is not the only> song that is played on the national days.> Thirty two years after it was written,casting aspirations now at the> film maker who has also given us "Shaheed" about the legendry Baghat> Singh & 'bharat ka rehne wala hun ,Bharat ki baat sunata hun'(Purab> Pashchim) is preposterous.> Thank God , the villian in the film is a Hindu only otherwise who> knows there could well have been a campaign to seek a ban on the> movie itself .> Regards all> LA> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>> > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:32:01 +0100> > From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com> > To: reader-list at sarai.net; explore at prashant.ca> > Subject: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? > >> > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by> Prasant> > imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but fails to> > perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims in this> > nationalist song of Bharat Kumar!> >> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, > wrote:> >> > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to> > > reader-list at sarai.net> > >> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> > > reader-list-request at sarai.net> > >> > > You can reach the person managing the list at> > > reader-list-owner at sarai.net> > >> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more> specific> > > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."> > >> > >> > > Today's Topics:> > >> > > 1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing)> > > 2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf)> > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > >> > > Message: 1> > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530> > > From: Navayana Publishing > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti...> > > To: sarai list > > > Message-ID:> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252> > >> > > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm> > >> > > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern> > >> > > PRASHANT KADAM> > >> > > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be> heard yet> > > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song> > > celebrates> > > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects.> > >> > > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from> the film> > > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street> corners to> > > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again> this January> > > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by> Manoj> > > Kumar> > > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its> natural> > > resources and its leaders.> > >> > > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa,> khilate> > > hain> > > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese> hain chaman> > > ke> > > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain> laal bahaadoor> > > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar> se (In these> > > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi,> Subhash,> > > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour> green stands> > > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is> drawn from> > > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.)> > >> > > Although the entire song needs close attention at various> levels, I shall> > > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few> facts have> > > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the> discourse of the> > > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri> Goswami in> > > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and> displacement> > > in> > > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric> writer, Gulshan> > > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar> background.> > > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar.> The point> > > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while> > > envisioning> > > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his> team were> > > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India.> > >> > > New colour> > >> > > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it> superimposes> > > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the> Buddha.> > > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin> who openly> > > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful> negotiations, also> > > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is> the invoking> > > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal> hain laal> > > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a> relatively> > > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur> Shastri).> > > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The> mention of> > > Lal> > > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact> that> > > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His> inclusion perhaps> > > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he> been slipped> > > in here?> > >> > > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian> tricolour with> > > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non-> existent red> > > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song> > > systematically> > > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white —> with> > > certain> > > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark> blue> > > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not> only does> > > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also> the 24> > > arcs> > > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its> central place in> > > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing,> when it> > > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the> Dhamma Chakra's> > > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with> this> > > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned,> Dr. B.R.> > > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The> man who> > > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually> unknown> > > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on> his name.> > >> > > Ample liberties> > >> > > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in> the flag> > > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the> Indian National> > > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has> to be> > > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted> from the> > > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or> regional> > > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such> as love,> > > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar"> song takes> > > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an> unbalanced choice> > > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag.> > >> > > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the> absence of women> > > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is> symbolic and> > > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song> and its> > > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation> of images> > > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have> limited> > > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the> inaudibility> > > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere> Desh ki> > > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias.> > >> > > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year,> we must hear> > > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its> ambiguous erasures.> > >> > > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies> at York> > > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca> > >> > > www.navayana.org> > >> > > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special> discounts!> > > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5> > >> > >> > > ------------------------------> > >> > > Message: 2> > > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST)> > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an> illusion?> > > To: sarai list , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8> > >> > > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for> us.> > > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held> responsible> > > for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad because> of the govt.,> > > the garbage is piling up on the street because of the> government, and so on.> > > We are trying to find simple solutions for complex problems. Any> way, I am> > > not a spokesperson of the Pak or Indian govt. but I would prefer> > > reconciliation rather than more violence.> > >> > > Yousuf> > >> > >> > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana wrote:> > >> > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an> illusion?> > > > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM> > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel> > > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its> > > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact> > > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be> > > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that> > > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement.> > > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that> > > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and> > > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated> > > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics> > > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves> > > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please> > > > go through this link.> > > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm> > > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries> > > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World> > > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together> > > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the> > > > University of Maryland."> > > > I think even Taha can do the math.> > > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a> > > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further> > > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf?> > > >> > > > Thank you> > > > Rahul> > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf > > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation> > > > an illusion?> > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM> > > > > Dear Rahul> > > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to> > > > be> > > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But> > > > there is> > > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I> > > > as a> > > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved> > > > in the> > > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which> > > > some> > > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in> > > > the> > > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the> > > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are> > > > preaching> > > > > terror against the so-called kafirs> > > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real> > > > opportunity to> > > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may> > > > realize> > > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change> > > > their> > > > > approach. This is the only way situations are> > > > controlled in> > > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree> > > > everyone> > > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't> > > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi> > > > survey was> > > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a> > > > population of> > > > > lakhs.> > > > >> > > > > Yousuf> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > reconciliation> > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > , "Peace> > > > Initiative"> > > > > ,> > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM> > > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > >> > > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an> > > > equal> > > > > number> > > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be> > > > > eradicated> > > > > > from the face of the earth."> > > > > > I agree.> > > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to> > > > > terror> > > > > > possible> > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its> > > > > govt."> > > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not> > > > advocating> > > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt> > > > should not> > > > > be> > > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD> > > > flourish> > > > > and> > > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip> > > > > flops on> > > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other> > > > statements> > > > > related> > > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere> > > > they are> > > > > in> > > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors> > > > flourishing> > > > > with> > > > > > the support of the establishment.> > > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat> > > > that> > > > > person,> > > > > > or do you kill him so that his disease> > > > doesn't> > > > > afflict> > > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make."> > > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier> > > > mail.Contrary to> > > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the> > > > person> > > > > does> > > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to> > > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to> > > > accept> > > > > the> > > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians> > > > while> > > > > the> > > > > > "treatment" is going on?> > > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority> > > > of> > > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As> > > > I> > > > > have> > > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that> > > > would> > > > > not> > > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps> > > > supporting> > > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds.> > > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in> > > > the> > > > > way> > > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see> > > > what> > > > > it has> > > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for> > > > the> > > > > money> > > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely> > > > > eradicate> > > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor> > > > > people in> > > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand> > > > and> > > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other> > > > > hand,while all> > > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds> > > > from the> > > > > US.> > > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of> > > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end> > > > > unless and> > > > > > until there is an existential threat to the> > > > army.Its> > > > > just> > > > > > too profitable a business for them.> > > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the> > > > > warmongers.But> > > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate> > > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and> > > > > insisting on> > > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push> > > > us> > > > > closer> > > > > > towards war.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Rahul> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > > reconciliation> > > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > , "Peace> > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > ,> > > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com> > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > edit at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM> > > > > > > Dear Rahul> > > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must> > > > be> > > > > true -> > > > > > I> > > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a> > > > > survey in> > > > > > India,> > > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and> > > > > Muslims> > > > > > need to> > > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth.> > > > Same> > > > > result> > > > > > may> > > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are> > > > not> > > > > born> > > > > > with> > > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are> > > > > brainwashed.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from> > > > Pakistan> > > > > early> > > > > > this> > > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher,> > > > but> > > > > he> > > > > > won't> > > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a> > > > school in> > > > > his> > > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about> > > > the> > > > > > situation> > > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate> > > > this> > > > > because> > > > > > for us> > > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them> > > > if> > > > > they> > > > > > > don't have schools in their> > > > village".> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to> > > > > terror> > > > > > possible> > > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its> > > > govt.> > > > > Was> > > > > > the> > > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda> > > > by> > > > > > crushing> > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the> > > > situation> > > > > become> > > > > > worse> > > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural> > > > > complexities> > > > > > of our> > > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were> > > > > interviewed> > > > > > in the> > > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu.> > > > The> > > > > only> > > > > > image> > > > > > > that their education system has given them> > > > of> > > > > India is> > > > > > that> > > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will> > > > only> > > > > > strengthen> > > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them).> > > > But> > > > > I> > > > > > agree> > > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not> > > > the> > > > > only> > > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably> > > > help in> > > > > > improving> > > > > > > the results of those surveys in each> > > > other's> > > > > > favour. If> > > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that> > > > person,> > > > > or> > > > > > do you> > > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't> > > > afflict> > > > > you.> > > > > > > That's the choice we have to make.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Yousuf> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and> > > > > > reconciliation> > > > > > > an illusion?> > > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > > , "Peace> > > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > > ,> > > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13> > > > PM> > > > > > > > Dear Yousuf,> > > > > > > > Have you come across this survey> > > > published> > > > > in a> > > > > > > Pakistani> > > > > > > > newspaper?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/> > > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants> > > > in the> > > > > > > Karachi-based> > > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and> > > > said> > > > > that> > > > > > Islam> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > other religions supported it."> > > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all> > > > > those> > > > > > surveyed> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing> > > > was> > > > > > acceptable> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon."> > > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the> > > > most> > > > > > > cosmopolitan of> > > > > > > > all Pak cities.> > > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than> > > > me,so> > > > > can> > > > > > you> > > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption> > > > that> > > > > there> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan> > > > that can> > > > > be> > > > > > > expected to> > > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the> > > > > questions> > > > > > > polled.> > > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant> > > > > difference?> > > > > > How do> > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > > Rahul> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > From: Yousuf> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace> > > > and> > > > > > > reconciliation an> > > > > > > > illusion?> > > > > > > > > To: "sarai list"> > > > > > > > ,> > > > "Peace> > > > > > > Initiative"> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,> > > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009,> > > > 3:25 PM> > > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in> > > > response to> > > > > an> > > > > > HT> > > > > > > article> > > > > > > > > (copied at bottom):> > > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha> > > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your> > > > write-up I> > > > > am> > > > > > > wondering if> > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > is the same country which produced> > > > > Gandhi,> > > > > > Kabir,> > > > > > > > Buddha and> > > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you> > > > find> > > > > the> > > > > > job> > > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste> > > > of> > > > > time,> > > > > > I> > > > > > > found> > > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a> > > > > large> > > > > > number> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > people on> > > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed> > > > up> > > > > with> > > > > > terror> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > violence> > > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable> > > > > solution. But> > > > > > much> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic> > > > > attack on> > > > > > such> > > > > > > > people who> > > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into> > > > > > productive and> > > > > > > > positive> > > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions> > > > of> > > > > the> > > > > > people> > > > > > > who> > > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are> > > > > proposing> > > > > > that> > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > efforts> > > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and> > > > the> > > > > > > people-to-people> > > > > > > > contact> > > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut> > > > and> > > > > > replaced> > > > > > > simply> > > > > > > > by a> > > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how> > > > exactly do> > > > > you> > > > > > > define> > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we> > > > co-existing> > > > > right> > > > > > now?> > > > > > > How> > > > > > > > can a> > > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab> > > > parties> > > > > > between> > > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve> > > > any> > > > > > purpose, but> > > > > > > I> > > > > > > > found> > > > > > > > > your statement that there are> > > > actually> > > > > no> > > > > > > > commonalities> > > > > > > > > between the culture of India and> > > > > Pakistan> > > > > > rather> > > > > > > > juvenile.> > > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be> > > > hostile> > > > > to> > > > > > each> > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > because they are culturally> > > > dissimilar,> > > > > then> > > > > > we> > > > > > > should> > > > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > a million more partitions within> > > > India> > > > > due> > > > > > to our> > > > > > > > cultural> > > > > > > > > differences.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace> > > > activists> > > > > of> > > > > > the two> > > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > > have remained less effective so> > > > far> > > > > because> > > > > > their> > > > > > > > reach has> > > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or> > > > > Lahore> > > > > > only.> > > > > > > If> > > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places> > > > such> > > > > as> > > > > > > Gorakhpur,> > > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad,> > > > and> > > > > meet> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able> > > > to> > > > > > understand> > > > > > > each> > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > better and realize that not> > > > everyone in> > > > > > these> > > > > > > > countries> > > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there> > > > is> > > > > "an> > > > > > > > irreparable> > > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge> > > > it> > > > > are> > > > > > both> > > > > > > > unrealistic> > > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the> > > > divide> > > > > has> > > > > > been> > > > > > > created> > > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > the governments and writers like> > > > you.> > > > > The> > > > > > > ordinary> > > > > > > > people of> > > > > > > > > the two countries are the only> > > > ones who> > > > > can> > > > > > > bridge> > > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such> > > > > nonsense.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed> > > > > > > > > New Delhi> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in> > > > India and> > > > > > Pakistan> > > > > > > who> > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace,> > > > dialogue> > > > > and> > > > > > > > reconciliation)> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > -----> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > We're not all in it together> > > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times> > > > > > > > > January 22, 2009> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > With tension between India and> > > > Pakistan> > > > > > > escalating,> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of> > > > peace> > > > > have> > > > > > their> > > > > > > hands> > > > > > > > full.> > > > > > > > > Irrespective of the> > > > inappropriateness> > > > > of> > > > > > > marketing> > > > > > > > peace at> > > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come> > > > to> > > > > terms> > > > > > with> > > > > > > 26/11,> > > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are> > > > overactive.> > > > > Last> > > > > > week> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in> > > > Amritsar> > > > > with> > > > > > a> > > > > > > banner> > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading> > > > Delhi> > > > > to> > > > > > talk> > > > > > > peace.> > > > > > > > Worse> > > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts> > > > held> > > > > > meetings to> > > > > > > > ensure> > > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a> > > > roaring> > > > > > success,> > > > > > > apart> > > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian> > > > soil.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan> > > > or> > > > > they us,> > > > > > they> > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both> > > > make> > > > > > endless> > > > > > > > comparisons> > > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food,> > > > dress,> > > > > > language,> > > > > > > > culture and> > > > > > > > > of course history. Politically> > > > correct,> > > > > but> > > > > > > untrue> > > > > > > > because> > > > > > > > > there are distinct differences in> > > > the> > > > > > respective> > > > > > > > cuisines,> > > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs,> > > > rituals> > > > > and> > > > > > > religion.> > > > > > > > What> > > > > > > > > are common are the scars of> > > > Partition> > > > > and a> > > > > > > > blood-stained> > > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks> > > > pretend> > > > > do not> > > > > > > exist as> > > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs,> > > > while> > > > > > pining for> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > no-visa> > > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to> > > > savour> > > > > > kebabs and> > > > > > > > hosting> > > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the> > > > surface> > > > > and> > > > > > there> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have> > > > little> > > > > chance> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > healing.> > > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and> > > > > positions> > > > > > > harden.> > > > > > > > Then it> > > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than> > > > > 'you> > > > > > and> > > > > > > us'.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali> > > > > Zardari> > > > > > tried to> > > > > > > > charm> > > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying> > > > that> > > > > > there is> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > little> > > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani> > > > and> > > > > vice> > > > > > versa,> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > truth is> > > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between> > > > the> > > > > two.> > > > > > It is> > > > > > > rare> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a> > > > > Pakistani.> > > > > > However> > > > > > > hard> > > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the> > > > mutual> > > > > > suspicion> > > > > > > > sealed by> > > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable> > > > divide> > > > > and> > > > > > > attempts> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and> > > > > > impossible.> > > > > > > > Marching to> > > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles> > > > for> > > > > peace> > > > > > is at> > > > > > > best> > > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible> > > > > results.> > > > > > In> > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > words, a> > > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when> > > > an> > > > > enraged> > > > > > > Pranab> > > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign> > > > Minister,> > > > > sheds> > > > > > > diplomacy> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it> > > > is> > > > > time to> > > > > > shed> > > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real,> > > > and> > > > > > abandon> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > song and> > > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to> > > > be> > > > > > brutally> > > > > > > honest> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace> > > > to> > > > > > > co-existence. It> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not> > > > bonds> > > > > of> > > > > > history> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > force> > > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing> > > > > peace> > > > > > with> > > > > > > > co-existence> > > > > > > > > will also help end the> > > > > "like-mindedness"> > > > > > > theory> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in> > > > place> > > > > of> > > > > > > non-workable> > > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions> > > > > about> > > > > > > camaraderie> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > help us face reality: however> > > > hard,> > > > > bitter> > > > > > and> > > > > > > brutal> > > > > > > > it may> > > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it> > > > will> > > > > be> > > > > > much> > > > > > > easier> > > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony> > > > bordering> > > > > on> > > > > > > aggression.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and> > > > there> > > > > could be> > > > > > a> > > > > > > road> > > > > > > > ahead;> > > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly> > > > treading> > > > > the> > > > > > path> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil.> > > > But> > > > > break> > > > > > bread> > > > > > > > together> > > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because> > > > > despite the> > > > > > > kebabs> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a> > > > volatile> > > > > > Indo-Pak> > > > > > > border> > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > the order of the day.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be> > > > the> > > > > > peaceniks.> > > > > > > Not> > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will> > > > be> > > > > > unwilling to> > > > > > > > accept> > > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing> > > > all> > > > > these> > > > > > > years is> > > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > illusion.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________> > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion> > > > list on> > > > > > media and> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > city.> > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations> > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to> > > > > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > > > > subscribe> > > > > > in> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > subject> > > > > > > > > header.> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > > > > > > > > List archive:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ------------------------------> > >> > > _______________________________________________> > > reader-list mailing list> > > reader-list at sarai.net> > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > >> > >> > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93> > > *******************************************> > >> >> >> >> > --> > Prabhat Kumar> > Ph.D. Student,> > Department of History,> > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg,> > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330,> > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany.> > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077> > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381.> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>>>> Akshay Kumar takes on the two reigning Bollywood Khans. Catch the> action on MSN Entertainment! Check it out! _________________________________________reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-listList archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>-- Navayana PublishingM-110 (First Floor)SaketNew Delhi--110017Ph: +91 9971433117Registered address:Navayana Publishing54, I FloorSavarirayalu StreePondicherry 605001Ph: 91-413-2223337Mobile: 91-94430-33305www.navayana.orgJoin Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts!http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ From zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com Tue Jan 27 22:11:24 2009 From: zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com (Zain Rahimtula) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:11:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods? Message-ID: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel.. www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment, sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks, Zain From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 20:59:35 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:29:35 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009:... selective reaction..???... In-Reply-To: <311160.72747.qm@web94715.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <311160.72747.qm@web94715.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Please click on the following link to see how a known Kashmiri pan Islamist terror commander is being euologised in the leading ‘media house' organised 'conclave' on March 15, 08. The founder of 'gun' culture in the valley, self admittedly ferried weapons from Pakistan to indulge in mayhem in Kashmir that lead to the ethnic cleansing of the minority Kashmiri Hindu Pandits there (...just for information--Kashmiri Hindu Pandits continue to live as refugees in their own country for the past two decades now…. & the civil society is conspicuously silent about it …….). In the turmoil, hundreds of Muslim mothers, widows & orphans have lost their loved ones who fell prey to the propaganda & religion based indoctrination. http://conclave.digitaltoday.in/conclave2008/index.php?option=com_magazine&opt=section§ionid=9&secid=6&issueid=32&assid=2502&Itemid=1&click=1 Do not miss the obnoxious sarcasm of the moderator that evokes equally cheap laughter from the august elite present when someone in the audience protested against the presence of a known terrorist in the panel. Regards all LA PS: i) This is not to belittle the ‘Godhra’ & ‘the post Godhra riots’-the tragedy of Gujarat. ii) What about the justice to the victims of ‘84anti Sikh riots? iii) What about the victims of previous riots- after all we have a history..? iii) Menace of communalism can not be eradicated through selective approach. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:03:29 +0530> From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com> To: faowindia at yahoogroups.com; reader-list at sarai.net; mauraf at stanford.edu; subuhi.jiwani at gmail.com> Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009: News Update> > kabi> > > Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी> blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com> podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown> > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----> From: sukla.sen > To: mediainitiative ; INDIATHINKERS ; mahajanapada ; bahujan ; IHRO ; issueonline ; Wake up India ; "india-unity at yahoogroups.com" ; "invitesplus at yahoogroups.com" ; Peace Mumbai ; citizen-mumbai ; international-peace-festival ; Samuhik Khoj ; ecological-democracy > Sent: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 12:55:15 PM> Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Cellular Silence Day: 30th January 2009: News Update> > [Please visit and sign, if not already done.> > Sukla]> > From: Ranjan Kamath > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:15 AM> Subject: Cellular Silence Day _ 30th January 2009_ News Update> > Dear Friends> > Thank you for spreading the message about Cellular Silence Day 30thJanuary 2009. > > As I write to you the number of signatures approaches 2500 from small beginnings on the 15th January. Today, it in the top ten of the Most Active campaigns on Petition Online.> > In the last 24 hours, TATA Sons have issued a legal notice to me, demanding that I remove all reference to Ratan Tata and instructing me to tender an unconditional apology allegedly defamation.> > While I have sought legal advice, I shall urge Mr Tata to engage in a dialogue wth a fellow citizen about the issue rather than attempt to legally intimidate me with the power and might of TATA Sons.> > That TATA Sons responded with a legal notice is sufficient proof that even a few thousand committed citizens can send tremors through the portals of India Inc.> > This is certainly not the last legal missive I shall be receiving before January 30th. Also, no effort is being spared to compromise this petition through fraudulent signatures, impersonations etc.> > If you do not wish to be updated about the campaign please let me know and I shall exclude you from further updates.> > thanking you> > sincerely> > Ranjan Kamath> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Citizen-Mumbai" group. > To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---> > > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume.. Grab now http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Find a better job. We have plenty. Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From mitoo at sarai.net Thu Jan 29 16:52:10 2009 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:52:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Ranciere in Delhi Message-ID: <49819162.9000009@sarai.net> *Jacques Ranciere: Revisiting Nights of Labour* Sarai invites you to a public talk by renowned philosopher Jacques Ranciere, the release of the Hindi translation of his book /Nights of Labour: Workers' Dream in 19th Century France, /(/Sarvahara Raatein: Unneesaveen sadi ke Frans mein Mazdoor Swapna/)/./ The book has been translated from the English by Abhay Kumar Dube. This the first in a series of translations of outstanding texts to be published by Sarai-CSDS and Vani Prakashan. *Date: Friday, 6th February, 2009* *Time: 6:00 pm* *Venue: CSDS , 29 Rajpur Road* Workshop and Roundtable with Ranciere. *Date: Saturday 7th February* *Time: 10 am* *Venue: CSDS , 29 Rajpur Road* Jacques Rancière is a well known philosopher and writer. As a young student, Rancière, co-authored Reading Capital (1968), with the Marxist philosopher Louis Althusser. Rancière later broke with Althusser over the 1968 uprising in France. Since the 1970s Rancière has produced a number of remarkable texts that range from working class history, philosophy, education, politics, and aesthetics. His books include The Ignorant Schoolmaster: Five Lessons in Intellectual Emancipation(1991), The Names of History: On the Poetics of Knowledge (1994), The Politics of Aesthetics: The Distribution of the Sensible Tr. Gabriel Rockhill (2004),The Future of the Image (2007). Rancière wrote The Nights of Labour after years of archival work. It traces the world of worker intellectuals in 19th century France, who, through their poems, music, letters, produced a world that did not celebrate work as in conventional socialist texts, but a life outside it. Radical in its style and argument, Nights of Labour, offers not just a revision of working class history, but the relation between politics, knowledge, aesthetics and equality, all of which have become topics of Rancière's future books. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *This event has been made possible by the support of the French Embassy, Delhi.* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope you will make yourself available for the event. Best, Mitoo Das Programme Coordinator Sarai, CSDS 29-Rajpur Road Civil Lines Delhi- 110 054 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Sat Jan 31 00:01:35 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:31:35 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Commission: "ABSML" by Jeff Crouse, Andrew Mahon, and Steve Lambert Message-ID: <02d001c98308$fd92e790$f8b8b6b0$@org> January 30, 2009 Turbulence Commission: "ABSML" by Jeff Crouse, Andrew Mahon, and Steve Lambert http://turbulence.org/works/absml/ ABSML is a new markup language that enables the creation of complex sentence formulas for 21st century automatic writing. ABSML tags replace parts of speech and sentence components using sophisticated semantic analysis, regular expressions, and web-based resources. In the right combination, the tags create prose that -- while based on formulas and code -- do not appear formulaic. ABSML is free and open for others to use, both through an online editor and an API (application programming interface). "ABSML" is a 2008 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the Jerome Foundation. BIOGRAPHIES JEFF CROUSE creates software and installations that highlight the absurdity of technology in culture. Jeff's previous works include YouThreebe, a YouTube triptych creator; Invisible Threads, a virtual jeans factory in Second Life; and James Chimpton, a robotic monkey that interviewed the artists of the 2008 Whitney Biennial. He is currently developing BoozBot, a bar tending robot/puppet; and DeleteCity, a Wordpress plug-in that finds and republishes content that has been removed from sites such as Flickr and YouTube. His work has been shown at the Sundance Film Festival, the Futuresonic festival in Manchester, UK, the DC FilmFest, and the Come Out and Play Festival in Amsterdam. Jeff received his MS from the Digital Media program at Georgia Tech in 2006 and then joined Eyebeam as a production fellow in 2007. He is currently a Senior Fellow at Eyebeam, an adjunct professor at the IMA program at Hunter College, and a freelance programmer. STEVE LAMBERT recently made international news with the The New York Times "Special Edition," a replica of the grey lady announcing the end of the war and other good news. A Senior Fellow at the Eyebeam Center for Art and Technology in New York, Lambert also teaches at Parsons/The New School and Hunter College. While he never graduated from high school, Steve went on to study sociology and film before receiving a BFA from the San Francisco Art Institute in 2000 and a MFA at UC Davis in 2006. He founded the Budget Gallery, an outdoor guerilla art gallery, in 1999 and the Anti-Advertising Agency in 2004 and has collaborated with numerous artists including the Graffiti Research Lab, and the Yes Men. Steve's projects and art works have won awards from Rhizome/The New Museum, the Creative Work Fund, Adbusters Media Foundation, the California Arts Council, and others. His work has been shown at galleries, art spaces, and museums both nationally and internationally, and was recently collected by the Library of Congress. Lambert has appeared live on NPR, the BBC, and CNN, and been reported on in multiple outlets including Associated Press, the New York Times, the Guardian, Punk Planet, and Newsweek. ANDREW MAHON is currently an undergraduate student at Parsons School of Design studying Design + Technology. His interests lie in the architecture of virtual space. Andrew has worked on numerous projects at Eyebeam since 2007, many with Jeff Crouse, including Invisible Threads, a virtual sweatshop, and You3b, a YouTube Triptych maker. Andrew has also worked with Natalie Jeremijenko at the Environmental Health Clinic, creating visualizations of threatened ecosystems. Over the summer of 2008, Andrew participated in Interactivos at Eyebeam, where his interactive installation was later show. Andrew is currently working on algorithmic music visualizations, freelance web programming, and has recently started interning at Area/Code, helping to develop compelling game situations using GPS tracking. For more Turbulence Commissions, please visit http://turbulence.org. Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Thu Jan 29 13:19:45 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:49:45 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_netEX=3A_calls_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_deadlines_--=3E_February_2009?= Message-ID: <20090129084945.268AF22C.5EFDEEE1@192.168.0.3> netEX: calls & deadlines -->February 2009 ------------------------------------- [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne newsletter contents calls & deadlines 03 Calls: 2009 deadlines internal 18 Calls: February 2009 deadlines external 9 Calls: ongoing external/internal ------------------------------------------------ Calls & deadlines ---> ------------------------------------------------ 2009: deadlines internal Deadline: 30 April 2009 A Virtual Memorial - memorial project environments is looking for artists who work on the subject "SHOAH/holocaust" in digital media, primarily videoart/filmart, but also netart, soundart, digital photography and media installation More info on http://www.a-virtual-memorial.org/blog/?p=23 Deadline 2 March 2009 Cinematheque - streaming media project environments call: Flash & Thunder - Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 Deadline 2 March 2009 VideoChannel - video project environments call: One Minute Videos http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=447 ------------------------------------------------ February 2009 deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 25 February 3rd Filmer la Musique Festival Paris/F http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=524 21 February Azyl/Busho : One Minute Festival 2009 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=507 15 February Athens Videoart Festival 2009 Athens/Greece http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=567 15 February 2009 13th Media Art Biennale Wroclaw/Poland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=391 15 February Interactivos? Lima'09 - workshop Lima/Peru http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=446 15 February 2nd OPA Festival Athens/Gr (performance art & papers) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=483 15 February Video Festival Bochum/G http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=518 15 February 2010 MATA Festival New York/NY/USA http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=424 14 February Media-N Spring edition 2009 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=425 11 February 49th Krakow Film Festival 2009 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=400 10 February Application undergraduate - Academy of Media Arts Cologne/Germany http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=436 10 February 404 Festival Rosario/Argentina http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=436 9 February Call for Web artists: Algorithmia http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=538 6 February 7th Hull International Shortfilm Fest 2009 Hull/UK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=385 6 February Share.tv (Cambridge/USA) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=493 5 February Naoussa Int. Shortfilm and Video Festival (Greece) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=479 1 February One Minute Festival Amsterdam/NL http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=414 1 February Rijksakademie residency 2010 Amsterdam /NL http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=445 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external/internal ----------------------------------------------- -->Videos for Bivouac Projects Sumter/USA -->OUTCASTING - web based screenings -->Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) -->Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil -->Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery -->Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland -->Project: Repetition as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen -->US webjournal Atomic Unicorn seeks netart and video art for coming editions -->TAGallery and more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # netEX - networked experiences is a free information service powered by [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements